# Palestine Today



## P F Tinmore

Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?

*Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Faith, fashion, fusion :: Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef: Congressional Briefing - 50 Years of Occupation and Life for Palestinian Children*

**


----------



## TNHarley

Palestine today? I was just reading about Palestine

Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
UK freezes $30m in Palestinian aid over salaries for terrorists
I was like DAMN what a bunch of assholes


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa on Writing and Activism - Witness Palestine Rochester*

**


----------



## JoelT1

Who are the palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Galilee Quartet: Playing for peace, love and humanity*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Shared Values, Shared Struggle": Ali Abunimah on Militarization in the US & Israel*

**


----------



## rylah

How about the Palestinian Jews? 

The Rivlin family immigrated to Syria-Palestine in 1806... long before any Arab identified as a Palestinian. They were building new neighborhoods in Palestine, and were at the center and leadership of the Jewish community in Jerusalem.

Today Reuven Rivlin is the president of the state of Israel.





Reuven Rivlin - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

*In the Room with Amahl Bishara*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian driver Noor Daoud parctice session @ Sebesség Fesztivál, Hungary


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*



And here is the leader of the Barghouti tribe, his name is Marwan.
*Barghouti's are a strange case *- they contradict everything they promote.
They promote academic boycott - while studying for doctorate in Tel-Aviv university. Marwan started hunger strikes, got thousands of followers - but was the 1st to break it and eat in front of cameras.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: Congressional Briefing - 50 Years of Occupation and Life for Palestinian Children*
> 
> **



Yawn..,,, Too bad” occupation” wasn’t considered before 1967.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: Congressional Briefing - 50 Years of Occupation and Life for Palestinian Children*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn..,,, Too bad” occupation” wasn’t considered before 1967.
Click to expand...

That depends on who you ask.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen*
> 
> **


 
A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janice Freij, Arab American culture


----------



## MJB12741

Yo Tinmore.  Who's this peace loving, life loving Palestinian?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

MJB12741 said:


> Yo Tinmore.  Who's this peace loving, life loving Palestinian?




The Palestinian who does not believe in the 1948 or 1967 Borders , denting Jews the access to E. Jerusalem which Jordan was supposed to do but of course didn’t, and eventually annexing the entire region. There “ rwo state solution” is DOA.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"We're Not White" - a film by Amer Zahr*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

MJB12741 said:


> Yo Tinmore.  Who's this peace loving, life loving Palestinian?



One question that I have never seen before; How do the Palestinians feel about the “ One State Solution!”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yo Tinmore.  Who's this peace loving, life loving Palestinian?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One question that I have never seen before; How do the Palestinians feel about the “ One State Solution!”
Click to expand...

It is already one state.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *"We're Not White" - a film by Amer Zahr*
> 
> **



This obsession with* skin color* is alarming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gazan author Laila El- Haddad discusses her latest book: Gaza Mom*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*An Arab Bakery in Oakland Full of California Love*

Before she embarked on a baking career, Reem Assil grew up in a Palestinian-Syrian household and spent a decade as a community organizer. Both of these things are evident at Reem’s California, the bright, bustling Arab bakery Ms. Assil opened in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood in May.

Reem’s is one of a handful of Arab bakeries in the Bay Area — but it is likely the only one where you’ll find the children’s book “A Is for Activist” on the shelves and an enormous mural of the controversial Palestinian activist Rasmeah Odeh on the wall. Affixed to Ms. Odeh’s kaffiyeh is a button of Oscar Grant III, the young black man killed in 2009 by transit police at the Fruitvale BART station, which looms just across the street.

*An Arab Bakery in Oakland Full of California Love*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *An Arab Bakery in Oakland Full of California Love*
> 
> Before she embarked on a baking career, Reem Assil grew up in a Palestinian-Syrian household and spent a decade as a community organizer. Both of these things are evident at Reem’s California, the bright, bustling Arab bakery Ms. Assil opened in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood in May.
> 
> Reem’s is one of a handful of Arab bakeries in the Bay Area — but it is likely the only one where you’ll find the children’s book “A Is for Activist” on the shelves and an enormous mural of the controversial Palestinian activist Rasmeah Odeh on the wall. Affixed to Ms. Odeh’s kaffiyeh is a button of Oscar Grant III, the young black man killed in 2009 by transit police at the Fruitvale BART station, which looms just across the street.
> 
> *An Arab Bakery in Oakland Full of California Love*



Yeah.  Nothing says love like a bomb on a shelf in a grocery store.  Or a bakery.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> How about the Palestinian Jews?
> 
> The Rivlin family immigrated to Syria-Palestine in 1806... long before any Arab identified as a Palestinian. They were building new neighborhoods in Palestine, and were at the center and leadership of the Jewish community in Jerusalem.
> 
> Today Reuven Rivlin is the president of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuven Rivlin - Wikipedia


Nice to see you acknowledged Mr Rivin's family migrated to Palestine in 1806,something the Zionist Possee do not aknowledge,by saying Palestine was INVENTED in 1967.....Dopes


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *In the Room with Amahl Bishara*
> 
> **


Thank YOU so much Tinnie for all your posts.....steve


----------



## Ria_Longhorn




----------



## P F Tinmore

Vera Baboun, Mayor of Bethlehem


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Session 11 Embedding Palestine into American pop culture*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **


Settlers are ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSHOLES


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Queen Rania of Jordan*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Village Histories: Geographies of the Displaced*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian elected as Rapporteur of UNESCO Cultural Committee *

Palestine’s Ambassador to UNESCO, Mounir Anastas, has won the election for the post of Rapporteur for the organisation’s Cultural Committee, Quds Press has reported. The result was announced on Thursday.

An Italian official has been elected as President of the Committee, with representatives of Venezuela, Albania, the Philippines and Zambia taking positions as members.

During its meeting, the Committee agreed unanimously, without the need for a vote, on a resolution to maintain the cultural heritage of Jerusalem’s Old City. The resolution called for an interactive monitoring delegation to be sent to the Old City in order to evaluate the situation and carry out a work plan and prepare advice on the measures needed to be taken in cooperation with all interested parties.

Members of the committee expressed their concern about official procrastination over the implementation of UNESCO’s executive council decisions regarding Jerusalem’s Old City, which is still under Israeli occupation.

Palestinian elected as Rapporteur of UNESCO Cultural Committee


----------



## P F Tinmore

Scores of Palestinian citizens flocked recently to the national industries exhibition in the besieged Gaza Strip, which was also organized in the occupied West Bank.

Visitors expressed their pride in the national product and its role in boosting the Palestinian economy, hoping that such exhibitions would promote the culture of resisting and boycotting Israeli products.

About 50 industrial and food enterprises participated last Sunday in the three-day national exhibition, which was also visited by officials from the government.  

Minister of public works and housing Mufid al-Hasayneh said that “the construction and food industries are the first and main lever for the advancement of the national economy and the building of the Palestinian state.”

  Read more at  
Gaza: National products in the face of Israel’s blockade
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gigi Hadid named among 'women of the year' and gave a tribute to her Palestinian roots*

American-Palestinian model Gigi Hadid was named among Glamour's 2017 list of 'Women of the Year', an annual award show honoring extraordinary women ... and the 22-year-old once again reminded the world of her Palestinian heritage. 

Hadid accepted the award and dedicated her speech to her parents, telling the world that her Palestinian father, Mohamad Hadid, was a refugee at one point. 

Despite his struggles, he worked very hard to "make his dreams come true," a characteristic that she carries with her every day in her career.

Gigi Hadid named among 'women of the year' and gave a tribute to her Palestinian roots


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek*

A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dana Rizek*
> 
> A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'
> 
> **



No one watches these videos that you continuously post.  You should save yourself the time and effort.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dana Rizek*
> 
> A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one watches these videos that you continuously post.  You should save yourself the time and effort.
Click to expand...

You should. It is a very nice piece of music.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Private Sector: Doing Business Under Occupation*

********


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **



Palestinian lies like water.

_The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.


But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*

In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*

The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”

Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.

At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._


----------



## Shusha

More on the use of water and the suffering of the Palestinian people as a weapon:

_Today, the Palestinians consume some 200 million cubic meters of water per annum in Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians could easily raise that amount by at least 50 percent, without any additional assistance or allocation from the State of Israel. This would require several simple actions:

If the Palestinians were to begin drilling the Eastern Mountain Aquifer, at the sites already approved for drilling, they very quickly would secure an additional 50 million cubic meters of water per year.

If the Palestinians were to reduce urban water waste from 33 percent to 20 percent by fixing the main leaks in their urban water pipes (something that can be done without great effort), they would immediately benefit from 10 million additional cubic meters of water per annum.

If the Palestinians were to collect and treat their urban waste water, they would gain at least 30 million cubic meters of water a year. This would free up 30 million cubic meters (per annum) of fresh water, currently used for agriculture, for home usage. This would allow them both to improve their urban water supply and to expand agricultural lands._

_If the Palestinians were to adopt drip irrigation technology, they would save 10 million cubic meters a year. This would allow them to expand their irrigated lands.

In the Gaza Strip, too, the Palestinians could easily double the amount of water available, without additional assistance from the State of Israel. If the Palestinians agreed to build a desalination plant on the Gaza coast (funded entirely by the international community), they would increase the amount of water available by 60 to 100 million cubic meters a year. If they fix leakages, treat and recycle sewage, and adopt drip irrigation, they would double their water allocation, as well.

Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority’s deleterious policies – as evidenced in the six facts listed above – are a function of the Palestinian water war against Israel. There is no real Palestinian desire to solve water problems; they prefer to perpetuate the water problems in order to besmirch the State of Israel. They view water as a tool with which to bash Israel.


_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
Click to expand...



Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al, _

This, again, is a misrepresentation of the facts.

•  Article XI (LAND) - Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip: (OSLO II):

"Area C" means areas of the West Bank outside Areas A and B, which, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, ...​

In accordance with the DOP, in Area C, the Council will have functional jurisdiction with regard to the powers and responsibilities transferred pursuant to this Annex. This jurisdiction shall not apply to issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, as set out in Article XVII, paragraph 1 of this Agreement.

•  ARTICLE IV  Special Provisions concerning Area C (OSLO II) 





In Area C, in the first phase of redeployment, powers and responsibilities not related to territory, as set out in Appendix 1, will be transferred to and assumed by the Council in accordance with the provisions of that Appendix.

During the further redeployment phases, powers and responsibilities relating to territory, as set out in Appendix 1, will be transferred gradually to Palestinian jurisdiction that will cover West Bank and Gaza Strip territory, except for the issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations.

In accordance with the DOP, in Area C, the Council will have functional jurisdiction with regard to the powers and responsibilities transferred pursuant to this Annex. This jurisdiction shall not apply to issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, as set out in Article XVII, paragraph 1 of this Agreement.

The transfer of powers and responsibilities in Area C shall not affect Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred.

The closure of areas or the imposing of other restrictions on the movement of persons or goods in Area C, required for the implementation of the powers and responsibilities transferred to the Council in accordance with this Annex (such as for the prevention of the spreading of diseases), shall require prior Israeli consent.

The misrepresentation is held in he inference that the Israelis somehow unlawfully pevent the Arab Palestinian from exercising their authority.   --- WHEN, in fact, the jurisdiction was granted by the Arab Palestinian. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.


*(COMMENT)*

It is NOT the case that the Arab Palestinians "Palestinians are not allowed" to do any thing in Area "C" ---  it IS the case that the Arab Palestinians "agreed" to Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as other civil affairs issues.

AGAIN:  the Arab Palestinians have not once. engaged Article XXI mediation for cause. 

ARTICLE XXI
Settlement of Differences and Disputes Any difference relating to the application of this Agreement shall be referred to the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism established under this Agreement. The provisions of Article XV of the DOP shall apply to any such difference which is not settled through the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism, namely:


Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Agreement or any related agreements pertaining to the interim period shall be settled through the Liaison Committee.


Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be settled by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed between the Parties.


The Parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation. To this end, upon the agreement of both Parties, the Parties will establish an Arbitration Committee.
IF the Arab Palestinian does not work within the agreed upon framework THEN tey have no room to complain.  There are means to a solution for each and every problem problem the Arab Palestinian claims.  YET, there is no record of an attempt to mediate the dispute.  That tells you something about the character and moral fiber of the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
Click to expand...

All of that requires permits.

Palestinians can whistle Dixie for permits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
Click to expand...

*Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply*

*Includes stealing their irrigation equipment.*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply*
> 
> *Includes stealing their irrigation equipment.*
> 
> **
Click to expand...




We've discussed this incident before. When you pirate water by illegally tapping into the water supply and diverting water with pipes -- that illegal activity is going to be addressed by law enforcement. As it should be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply*
> 
> *Includes stealing their irrigation equipment.*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed this incident before. When you pirate water by illegally tapping into the water supply and diverting water with pipes -- that illegal activity is going to be addressed by law enforcement. As it should be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

It is Israel that is stealing the water.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian lies like water.
> 
> _The PA considers water and waste like weapons against Israel.
> 
> 
> But most of all, Gvirtzman’s BESA Center report accuses the *PA of doing almost nothing to preventing massive leaking in its domestic pipelines; almost nothing to implement modern water conservation techniques; and nothing to recycle sewage water for irrigation.*
> 
> In fact, many Palestinian farmers routinely overwater their crops through old-fashioned, wasteful flooding methods. Generally, they don’t pay their own water bills, so they don’t care to conserve. (The PA uses international donor money to pay for this waste.) Moreover, *at least one-third of the water being pumped out of the ground by the Palestinians is wasted through leakage and mismanagement – by the Palestinian Water Authority’s own estimates.*
> 
> The PA euphemistically calls this “unaccounted for water.”
> 
> Worse still, *no recycling of water takes place in the Palestinian Authority and no treated water is used for agriculture.* By contrast, in Israel about half of all agriculture is sustained by treated waste water. In fact, Israel’s use of treated waste water, its desalination activities, and its measures to reduce water losses in the water system add 800 m.c.m. per year to its water supply, amounting to one-third of Israel’s total water usage.
> 
> At the same time, *95 percent of the 56 m.c.m. per year of sewage produced by the Palestinians is not treated at all. Palestinian sewage flows untreated into the streams and valleys of the West Bank, and infiltrates into the Mountain Aquifer, polluting it for Jews and Arabs alike. *Some 17 m.c.m. per year of raw Palestinian sewage flows into (pre-67) Israel too._
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply*
> 
> *Includes stealing their irrigation equipment.*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed this incident before. When you pirate water by illegally tapping into the water supply and diverting water with pipes -- that illegal activity is going to be addressed by law enforcement. As it should be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> It is Israel that is stealing the water.
Click to expand...




Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Arab Palestinians are encouraged to be lawless and not take any responsibility for illegal actions like water piracy. 

How dare we actually expect Arab Palestinians to obey the law. They should be permitted to do anything they want - steal water, take land, stab people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not allowed to do any of that in area C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?!  Palestinians are not allowed to use drip irrigation?  Palestinians are prohibited from recycling water?  Palestinians are aren't permitted to repair water lines? Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply*
> 
> *Includes stealing their irrigation equipment.*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed this incident before. When you pirate water by illegally tapping into the water supply and diverting water with pipes -- that illegal activity is going to be addressed by law enforcement. As it should be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> It is Israel that is stealing the water.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Arab Palestinians are encouraged to be lawless and not take any responsibility for illegal actions like water piracy.
> 
> How dare we actually expect Arab Palestinians to obey the law. They should be permitted to do anything they want - steal water, take land, stab people.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.  I know quite a bit about the water situation in Israel and Areas A, B and C and I'm perfectly willing to do more research when necessary.  I'm especially willing to do this because this topic has the potential to actually be a valid criticism of Israel and a worthy topic of discussion instead of the usual Jew/Israel bashing.  But you keep bringing the level of discussion back down to "Israel is evil".

The build up areas of Shuqba are in Area B.  Shuqba is connected to the water grid supplied by the West Bank Water Department.  The responsibility for the infrastructure and policing of pirated water falls to the Palestinian National Authority and the Village Council appointed by them.  They are in need of upgrades to the infrastructure to prevent loss of water through leaks and in need of a waste water management system to prevent waste water from contaminating the drinking water in the rainwater cisterns.  In Area B -- under Palestinian control.  

I can only find one reliably reported instance of water being shut off -- and that was a problem with a pump which needed repair in 2005.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.  I know quite a bit about the water situation in Israel and Areas A, B and C and I'm perfectly willing to do more research when necessary.  I'm especially willing to do this because this topic has the potential to actually be a valid criticism of Israel and a worthy topic of discussion instead of the usual Jew/Israel bashing.  But you keep bringing the level of discussion back down to "Israel is evil".
> 
> The build up areas of Shuqba are in Area B.  Shuqba is connected to the water grid supplied by the West Bank Water Department.  The responsibility for the infrastructure and policing of pirated water falls to the Palestinian National Authority and the Village Council appointed by them.  They are in need of upgrades to the infrastructure to prevent loss of water through leaks and in need of a waste water management system to prevent waste water from contaminating the drinking water in the rainwater cisterns.  In Area B -- under Palestinian control.
> 
> I can only find one reliably reported instance of water being shut off -- and that was a problem with a pump which needed repair in 2005.
Click to expand...

Rain water belongs to whoever it falls on. Israel destroys the collection of this water.

Israel's policy is to deny the Palestinians access to water (an act of genocide) to force them to move.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.  I know quite a bit about the water situation in Israel and Areas A, B and C and I'm perfectly willing to do more research when necessary.  I'm especially willing to do this because this topic has the potential to actually be a valid criticism of Israel and a worthy topic of discussion instead of the usual Jew/Israel bashing.  But you keep bringing the level of discussion back down to "Israel is evil".
> 
> The build up areas of Shuqba are in Area B.  Shuqba is connected to the water grid supplied by the West Bank Water Department.  The responsibility for the infrastructure and policing of pirated water falls to the Palestinian National Authority and the Village Council appointed by them.  They are in need of upgrades to the infrastructure to prevent loss of water through leaks and in need of a waste water management system to prevent waste water from contaminating the drinking water in the rainwater cisterns.  In Area B -- under Palestinian control.
> 
> I can only find one reliably reported instance of water being shut off -- and that was a problem with a pump which needed repair in 2005.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rain water belongs to whoever it falls on. Israel destroys the collection of this water.
> 
> Israel's policy is to deny the Palestinians access to water (an act of genocide) to force them to move.
Click to expand...



Just don't blame Israel when Arabs contaminate their own rainwater.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.


The irony, wow. You post propaganda day after day for a brutal regime. You are now spreading lies as an attempt to cover for Israel stealing water. You spent the other day trying to cover for Israel's crimes against children. Where does this end?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.
> 
> 
> 
> The irony, wow. You post propaganda day after day for a brutal regime. You are now spreading lies as an attempt to cover for Israel stealing water. You spent the other day trying to cover for Israel's crimes against children. Where does this end?
Click to expand...



On the contrary, abi. I point out the hypocrisy of Arabs and their useful idiots. And the complete lack of responsibility Arabs have for solving their own problems. 

Propaganda videos, like the ones Tinman posted, contain no information and only vitriol and blaming and Jew bashing. You are the one who wants to discuss things in an academic level. And yet you seem incapable of doing it. You fall back to the same level of propaganda that every one of Arab Palestine's useful idiots do. 

Water is a great academic topic. As are "settlements". As is the treatment of children. And the criminal actions of children. Great topics. But you and Tinmore and nearly everyone else on this board on Team Palestine is entirely incapable of having objective, nuanced, properly researched conversations on these topics. 

Instead, you all go back to the unsophisticated idea that it's Arab land, Arab water, Arab air, Arab sky and Jews are evil.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in watching your Pallywood propaganda videos.
> 
> 
> 
> The irony, wow. You post propaganda day after day for a brutal regime. You are now spreading lies as an attempt to cover for Israel stealing water. You spent the other day trying to cover for Israel's crimes against children. Where does this end?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, abi. I point out the hypocrisy of Arabs and their useful idiots. And the complete lack of responsibility Arabs have for solving their own problems.
> 
> Propaganda videos, like the ones Tinman posted, contain no information and only vitriol and blaming and Jew bashing. You are the one who wants to discuss things in an academic level. And yet you seem incapable of doing it. You fall back to the same level of propaganda that every one of Arab Palestine's useful idiots do.
> 
> Water is a great academic topic. As are "settlements". As is the treatment of children. And the criminal actions of children. Great topics. But you and Tinmore and nearly everyone else on this board on Team Palestine is entirely incapable of having objective, nuanced, properly researched conversations on these topics.
> 
> Instead, you all go back to the unsophisticated idea that it's Arab land, Arab water, Arab air, Arab sky and Jews are evil.
Click to expand...

No, you do exactly what you accused your enemies of doing. You do this daily, as it is some kind of compulsion you are afflicted with. 

You are lying about the water and blaming the victims in support of a brutal and sometimes inhuman regime. You want academic discussion about water?

Water is the only issue in which Israel (still) finds it difficult to defend its discriminatory, oppressive and destructive policy with pretexts of security and God. 

Israeli spokespeople have three answers ready to pull out when they respond to questions on the water shortage in West Bank Palestinian towns – which stands out starkly compared to the hydrological smugness of the settlements: 1) The Palestinian water system is old, so it suffers from water loss; 2) the Palestinians steal water from each other, and from the Israelis; and 3) in general, Israel has in its great generosity doubled the amount of water it supplies to the Palestinians, compared to what was called for in the Oslo Accords.

“Supplies,” the spokespeople will write in their responses. *They will never say Israel sells the Palestinians 64 million cubic meters of water a year instead of the 31 million cubic meters agreed to in the Oslo Accords. Accords that were signed in 1994, and that were supposed to come to an end in 1999. They will not say that Israel sells the Palestinians water that it first stole from them.*
read more: Israel incapable of telling truth about water it steals from Palestinians

Just stop. Everything you have wasted your time typing has been debunked by Israeli Jews themselves!


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> You are lying about the water and blaming the victims in support of a brutal and sometimes inhuman regime.


Nothing about this first sentence is objective, researched, nuanced or academic.  Its bashing.  




> Water is the only issue in which Israel (still) finds it difficult to defend its discriminatory, oppressive and destructive policy with pretexts of security and God.


Nothing about this is objective, researched, nuanced or academic.  Its bashing. 



> Israeli spokespeople have three answers ready to pull out when they respond to questions on the water shortage in West Bank Palestinian towns – which stands out starkly compared to the hydrological smugness of the settlements: 1) The Palestinian water system is old, so it suffers from water loss; 2) the Palestinians steal water from each other, and from the Israelis; and 3) in general, Israel has in its great generosity doubled the amount of water it supplies to the Palestinians, compared to what was called for in the Oslo Accords.


Yep. I brought up these very things in posts #55 and 56. Did you care to refute them with objective facts and researched arguments?  

Specifically, here is how Arab Palestine can massively increase the amount of water, especially drinking water, available to its citizens with NO influence or interference from Israel.  

1.  Drill in the approved sites in the Eastern Aquifer. (+50 million cubic meters per annum)
2.  Reduce urban waste in Areas A and B and Gaza by repair to infrastructure. (+20 million cubic meters per annum)
3.  Collect and treat urban waste water.  (+60 million cubic meters per annum)
4.  Adopt drip irrigation methods.  (+20 million cubic meters per annum)
5.  Build a water desalination plant in Gaza, entirely funded by international donors (+60-100 million cubic meters per annum)

Why are they not doing this?  None of this has ANYTHING to do with Israel.  Why are they not assisting their own people obtain clean drinking water?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> 5. Build a water desalination plant in Gaza, entirely funded by international donors (+60-100 million cubic meters per annum)


So, what is the holdup? Is Hamas sitting there with a gun saying not to build?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are lying about the water and blaming the victims in support of a brutal and sometimes inhuman regime.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing about this first sentence is objective, researched, nuanced or academic.  Its bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water is the only issue in which Israel (still) finds it difficult to defend its discriminatory, oppressive and destructive policy with pretexts of security and God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing about this is objective, researched, nuanced or academic.  Its bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli spokespeople have three answers ready to pull out when they respond to questions on the water shortage in West Bank Palestinian towns – which stands out starkly compared to the hydrological smugness of the settlements: 1) The Palestinian water system is old, so it suffers from water loss; 2) the Palestinians steal water from each other, and from the Israelis; and 3) in general, Israel has in its great generosity doubled the amount of water it supplies to the Palestinians, compared to what was called for in the Oslo Accords.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep. I brought up these very things in posts #55 and 56. Did you care to refute them with objective facts and researched arguments?
> 
> Specifically, here is how Arab Palestine can massively increase the amount of water, especially drinking water, available to its citizens with NO influence or interference from Israel.
> 
> 1.  Drill in the approved sites in the Eastern Aquifer. (+50 million cubic meters per annum)
> 2.  Reduce urban waste in Areas A and B and Gaza by repair to infrastructure. (+20 million cubic meters per annum)
> 3.  Collect and treat urban waste water.  (+60 million cubic meters per annum)
> 4.  Adopt drip irrigation methods.  (+20 million cubic meters per annum)
> 5.  Build a water desalination plant in Gaza, entirely funded by international donors (+60-100 million cubic meters per annum)
> 
> Why are they not doing this?  None of this has ANYTHING to do with Israel.  Why are they not assisting their own people obtain clean drinking water?
Click to expand...

Mostly deflection and does not address the issues in question.

The loss of large stretches of agricultural land, after 1967, due to land confiscation and closures, and limitations on water supply and product markets, has led to a substantial decline in the production of this sector.

In 1967, Palestinian agricultural production was almost identical to Israel's: tomatoes, cucumbers and melons were roughly half of Israel's crop; plums and grape production were equal to Israel's; and Palestinian production of olives, dates and almonds was higher. At that time, the West Bank exported 80% of the entire vegetable crop it produced, and 45% of total fruit production (Hazboun, S., 1986).

The agricultural sector was hit hard after Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Thereafter the sector�s contribution to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the Palestinian Occupied Territories declined. Between 1968/1970 and 1983/1985 the percentage of agricultural contribution to the overall GDP in the West Bank fell from 37.4-53.5% to 18.5-25.4% (UNCTAD, 1990). The labour force employed in this sector has also declined. Between 1969 and 1985, the agricultural labour force, as a percentage of the total labour force, fell from 46 to 27.4% (Kahan, D., 1987).

There has been a continuous decline in the Palestinian cultivated areas in the West Bank since 1967. In 1965, before the Israeli occupation, the actual cultivated area was estimated at 2,435 km2 (Al-'Aloul, K., 1987). The total area fell to 1,951 km2 in 1980. In 1985, the cultivated area reached 1,735 km2, and in 1989, it was 1,706 km2 (UNCTAD, 1990). The average of actual cultivated land in the West Bank, between 1980 and 1994 was 1,707 km2, a reduction by 30% of the area cultivated in 1965.� 

Israel has restricted Palestinian water usage and exploited Palestinian water resources after occupation. Presently, more than 85% of the Palestinian water from the West Bank aquifers is taken by Israel, accounting for 25.3% of Israel�s water needs. Palestinians are also denied their right to utilize water resources from the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, to which both Israel and Palestine are riparians. West Bank farmers historically used the waters of the Jordan River to irrigate their fields, but this source has become quite polluted as Israel is diverting saline water flows from around Lake Tiberias into the lower Jordan. Moreover, Israeli diversions from Lake Tiberias into the National Water Carrier have reduced the flow considerably, leaving Palestinians downstream with little water of low quality. 

Agriculture in Palestine​


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Living under occupation in Palestine with Janna Jihad*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what is the holdup? Is Hamas sitting there with a gun saying not to build?



That's the point!  There is no hold up.  Anytime Arab Palestinians want to help their own people -- they can.  It just means they are going to have to take responsibility and stop blaming Israel.  

(btw, the Gaza desalination plant has already been built.  Opened in January if memory serves.)


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi* - The 'Treasure' of Revolutions: A Tradition of Thought and Practice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.


----------



## RoccoR

※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I think there is a fault to this argument.

*Understanding the term “indigenous”*

Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:

Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.

Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies

Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources

Distinct social, economic or political systems

Distinct language, culture and beliefs

Form non-dominant groups of society

Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and
communities.​It was not until the 21st Century (September 2007) that the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (A/RES/61/295) Was even adopted.  That is more than half a century after the Independence of Israel; four decades after the 1967 Six-Day War; and almost 20 years after the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) announced the Independence of the the State of Palestine.  

The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court entered into force on 1 July 2002.  It is a 21st Century Concept of the Rule of Law.  ‘The crime of apartheid’ means inhumane acts (Article 7: Crimes Against Humanity) committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  The *International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid *which entered into force 18 July 1976, a decade after the 1967 Six-Day War but a decade before the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and abandon the West Bank to the Israeli Occupation.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.


*(COMMENT)*

We all must recognize that the politics  of  yesterday-year, the continuum of the politics between then and now, and the politics of the future will amend how we think about these issues.  But what we think is applicable today is not necessarily sound or valid.  Again, as has been stated before, any attempt to apply 21st Century concepts to decisions made a half-century ago or more in the first half of the 20th Century is simply impractical. 

Soon, there will neither be any Jewish or any Arab Palestinians remaining that were of the originals involved in the 1948 events from which Israel emerged.  The entire complexion of the dispute will change.

Most Reespectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I think there is a fault to this argument.
> 
> *Understanding the term “indigenous”*
> 
> Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:
> 
> Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.
> 
> Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies
> 
> Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources
> 
> Distinct social, economic or political systems
> 
> Distinct language, culture and beliefs
> 
> Form non-dominant groups of society
> 
> Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and
> communities.​It was not until the 21st Century (September 2007) that the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (A/RES/61/295) Was even adopted.  That is more than half a century after the Independence of Israel; four decades after the 1967 Six-Day War; and almost 20 years after the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) announced the Independence of the the State of Palestine.
> 
> The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court entered into force on 1 July 2002.  It is a 21st Century Concept of the Rule of Law.  ‘The crime of apartheid’ means inhumane acts (Article 7: Crimes Against Humanity) committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  The *International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid *which entered into force 18 July 1976, a decade after the 1967 Six-Day War but a decade before the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and abandon the West Bank to the Israeli Occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We all must recognize that the politics  of  yesterday-year, the continuum of the politics between then and now, and the politics of the future will amend how we think about these issues.  But what we think is applicable today is not necessarily sound or valid.  Again, as has been stated before, any attempt to apply 21st Century concepts to decisions made a half-century ago or more in the first half of the 20th Century is simply impractical.
> 
> Soon, there will neither be any Jewish or any Arab Palestinians remaining that were of the originals involved in the 1948 events from which Israel emerged.  The entire complexion of the dispute will change.
> 
> Most Reespectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

First watch this. The host was confused about how the "Arabs" and Jews lived together. He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well. It appears that the host and the women were on a different page.

*The story of a Jewish grandma born in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I think there is a fault to this argument.
> 
> *Understanding the term “indigenous”*
> 
> Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following:
> 
> Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.
> 
> Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies
> 
> Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources
> 
> Distinct social, economic or political systems
> 
> Distinct language, culture and beliefs
> 
> Form non-dominant groups of society
> 
> Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and
> communities.​It was not until the 21st Century (September 2007) that the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (A/RES/61/295) Was even adopted.  That is more than half a century after the Independence of Israel; four decades after the 1967 Six-Day War; and almost 20 years after the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) announced the Independence of the the State of Palestine.
> 
> The Rome Statutes of the International Criminal Court entered into force on 1 July 2002.  It is a 21st Century Concept of the Rule of Law.  ‘The crime of apartheid’ means inhumane acts (Article 7: Crimes Against Humanity) committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.  The *International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid *which entered into force 18 July 1976, a decade after the 1967 Six-Day War but a decade before the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties with the West Bank and abandon the West Bank to the Israeli Occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We all must recognize that the politics  of  yesterday-year, the continuum of the politics between then and now, and the politics of the future will amend how we think about these issues.  But what we think is applicable today is not necessarily sound or valid.  Again, as has been stated before, any attempt to apply 21st Century concepts to decisions made a half-century ago or more in the first half of the 20th Century is simply impractical.
> 
> Soon, there will neither be any Jewish or any Arab Palestinians remaining that were of the originals involved in the 1948 events from which Israel emerged.  The entire complexion of the dispute will change.
> 
> Most Reespectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Interesting, Rocco. When it comes to indigenous, or first people, we would have to go back to the cave man and we would not be sure that they were not from someplace else.

The UN's rights of the indigenous seems to be for the remnants of people displaced by settler colonial projects (Like the Americas or Australia, etc.) before there were concepts of rights or international law. Unfortunately, when Israel conquered Palestine by military force, these concepts were in place. I don't believe that the UN's indigenous rights would apply to the Palestinians. Other laws would be applicable.

In your post you said:


RoccoR said:


> Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.


The Zionists did not self identify as Palestinians and were not accepted by the community as Palestinians. They did not immigrate to Palestine to be part of that community.  They lived in colonies away from anything Palestinian. They came with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for themselves. Colonization is a term they themselves used to define their actions.

These violations must be addressed before there will be peace. You will never hear the words rights or international law cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process. That is why it has always failed and always will.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, I absolutely did say this.



P F Tinmore said:


> In your post you said:
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member.
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionists did not self identify as Palestinians and were not accepted by the community as Palestinians.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In fact, many Jewish People today still hold a very strong connection (self-identification) with the lands associated with the Kingdoms of Israeli and Judah; which includes the capitals cities of Samaria  and Jerusalem.





​In the time of King Solomon and the First Temple --- it was all considered one Kingdom.



P F Tinmore said:


> They did not immigrate to Palestine to be part of that community.  They lived in colonies away from anything Palestinian. They came with the stated goal of taking over Palestine for themselves. Colonization is a term they themselves used to define their actions.
> 
> These violations must be addressed before there will be peace. You will never hear the words rights or international law cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process. That is why it has always failed and always will.


*(COMMENT)*

Clearly, the connection between the Jewish People and the territory, in these contemporary times, have no practical value.  The original authority for the establishment of a Jewish National Home (JNH) from the post-War Carve-out of from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.  In that, the Allied Powers made the determination that the Mandatory (the British) would have full powers of legislation and of administration; including being in favor of the establishment in Palestine the JNH for the Jewish people,

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

As long as the Arab Palestinian demands an "all or nothing" outcome in the sensation, the longer it will take for a Peaceful Solution (alia 



P F Tinmore said:


> These violations must be addressed before there will be peace. You will never hear the words rights or international law cross the lips of anyone in the fake peace process. That is why it has always failed and always will.


*(COMMENT)*

There are three principe cents that the Arab Palestinians has consistantly ignored for the last seventy years. And still today, the Arab Palestinian holds to the unbending position that:  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."  This position violates one of the essential duties of a State; and its primary interest as a states to conserve peace. Differences of any nature which arise between States should be settled by recognized pacific methods IAW the Friendly relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625).  As long as these three duties are abandon by the Arab Palestinian, so long will it be a lawless state and flawed state.

•→  Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

•→  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.

•→  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.​
The Arab Palestinian people, in what is called today as the "occupied territories," has no special right or privilege to ignore these three tenants.  Over the last half century, the Arab Palestinian has (over and overs again) demonstrated the moral proclivity for all acts of terrorism irrespective of their motivation, whenever and by whomsoever committed [S/RES/1624 (2005)]:

•→   Using terrorist acts to motivate extremism and intolerance.​•→   Financing, planning and inciting terrorist acts. 

•→   Openly rewarding terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts. 

As long as the Arab Palestinian declines to act according to the Convention on Rights and Duties of States and maintains an open state of hostilities, too will it be the _status quo_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.



The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.

It might have gone like this:

_We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> •→ Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.


There is no dispute. Israel has been sitting inside Palestine since 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.
> 
> It might have gone like this:
> 
> _We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *
Click to expand...

You are brushing over the Zionist settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ezz Zanoun*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SF Community Labor Rally Defends Palestinian Professor Rabab Abdulhadi Against Zionist Lawsuit*

BTW, this frivolous lawsuit has been dropped.

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.
> 
> It might have gone like this:
> 
> _We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are brushing over the Zionist settler colonial project.
Click to expand...



I am pointing out that the presence of Jews is not inherently harmful. 

If the Arabs had simply wished the Jewish people a most hearty welcome home the Arab Palestinians would be peacefully and prosperously in that one multi-ethnic, multi-race, multi-religious place you talked about the other day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.
> 
> It might have gone like this:
> 
> _We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are brushing over the Zionist settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am pointing out that the presence of Jews is not inherently harmful.
> 
> If the Arabs had simply wished the Jewish people a most hearty welcome home the Arab Palestinians would be peacefully and prosperously in that one multi-ethnic, multi-race, multi-religious place you talked about the other day.
Click to expand...

The Jew were not the problem. The Zionist settler colonial project was the problem.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.
> 
> It might have gone like this:
> 
> _We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are brushing over the Zionist settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am pointing out that the presence of Jews is not inherently harmful.
> 
> If the Arabs had simply wished the Jewish people a most hearty welcome home the Arab Palestinians would be peacefully and prosperously in that one multi-ethnic, multi-race, multi-religious place you talked about the other day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jew were not the problem. The Zionist settler colonial project was the problem.
Click to expand...



So the Jews returning to their homeland were not the problem?  

How can you tell the difference between a Jew returning home and a Zionist?

(Wait. This is where you talk about pigging the place right?)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He did not consider how the Zionist settler colonial project was poisoning the well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in the territory of their historical homeland is not poisoning the well.  Its the ATTITUDE of the Arabs about the presence of Jews which poisons the well.
> 
> It might have gone like this:
> 
> _We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, insofar as we are concerned, to help them through; *we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home..*_*. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are brushing over the Zionist settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am pointing out that the presence of Jews is not inherently harmful.
> 
> If the Arabs had simply wished the Jewish people a most hearty welcome home the Arab Palestinians would be peacefully and prosperously in that one multi-ethnic, multi-race, multi-religious place you talked about the other day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jew were not the problem. The Zionist settler colonial project was the problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So the Jews returning to their homeland were not the problem?
> 
> How can you tell the difference between a Jew returning home and a Zionist?
> 
> (Wait. This is where you talk about pigging the place right?)
Click to expand...

Indeed, there is a difference between moving into a country and taking it over.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Joseph Massad: 100 Years After the Balfour Declaration – Vienna Austria – 2017.11.04*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Mnar Muhawesh of Mint Press News*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, there is a difference between moving into a country and taking it over.



There was no "country" to take over.  The nation was dissolved.  What replaced it was the expression of various different peoples self-determination.  Why should the Jewish people be excluded from that process?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, there is a difference between moving into a country and taking it over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no "country" to take over.  The nation was dissolved.  What replaced it was the expression of various different peoples self-determination.  Why should the Jewish people be excluded from that process?
Click to expand...

Are you going to go back to Israel's old horseshit of there never was a Palestine?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Are you going to go back to Israel's old horseshit of there never was a Palestine?



Not in the slightest.  The Ottoman Empire was dissolved.  It ceased to exist.  It was replaced with a number of smaller nations based on the wishes of the people who had connections to that territory.  The Jewish people were one of those.  Why should that one people, with a clear historical connection to that territory, be excluded from the same principles upon which everyone else achieved self-determination, sovereignty and independence?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be.  IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:

•→  The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
•→  The civil war and the area/territory controlled by either side is not an occupation; since both sides of the conflict consisted of Palestinians having the same citizenship _(under the 1925 Citizenship Law)_.  Occupation may be defined as the effective of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces.  This is a case where NO foreign military presence exists.  (_Footnote #1, Page #7, ICRC Occupation and __The Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory_)
_
•  Hague Regulation (1907) Article 42:  Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised._​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •→ Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. Israel has been sitting inside Palestine since 1948.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

However, there is the argument that since the Allied Powers held the authority to define "Palestine" --- within such boundaries as may be fixed by them --- that in on 15 May 1948, the Successor Government became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) --- and that the Declaration of Independence by Israel was coordinated by the Jewish Agency with the UNPC, --- that in point of fact, the recognition of the State of Israel was a proper delineation of territory just the same as the Hashemite Kingdom off Jordan.

While it is true to say that Israel and Jordan were both once held within the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine, there came a point at which they were released from that status.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be.  IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→  The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> •→  The civil war and the area/territory controlled by either side is not an occupation; since both sides of the conflict consisted of Palestinians having the same citizenship _(under the 1925 Citizenship Law)_.  Occupation may be defined as the effective of a foreign territory by hostile armed forces.  This is a case where NO foreign military presence exists.  (_Footnote #1, Page #7, ICRC Occupation and The Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory_)
> _
> •  Hague Regulation (1907) Article 42:  Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •→ Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. Israel has been sitting inside Palestine since 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> However, there is the argument that since the Allied Powers held the authority to define "Palestine" --- within such boundaries as may be fixed by them --- that in on 15 May 1948, the Successor Government became the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) --- and that the Declaration of Independence by Israel was coordinated by the Jewish Agency with the UNPC, --- that in point of fact, the recognition of the State of Israel was a proper delineation of territory just the same as the Hashemite Kingdom off Jordan.
> 
> While it is true to say that Israel and Jordan were both once held within the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine, there came a point at which they were released from that status.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


This.  This.  A thousand times this.  This is the legal essence of the debate.  

It is not an international conflict -- but a civil war.  Civil wars are almost always solved by division of the territory.  Not sure if there is an exception to this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).


You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.

The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.

Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Toronto Al-Quds Day Rally 2017 (From Queens Park to US Consulate)*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.
> 
> The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.
> 
> Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.
Click to expand...


Do you have a degree in international law?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Not exactly correct.  While it is very coneinitnet for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to make such an assumption for the purpose of justifying their argument, the facts are entirely different.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers *imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians*.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Four points need to be made here.

•  The decision to facilitate the immigration of the Jewish People was made "by the Allied Powers" during the San Remo Convention of 1920; when the framework of the Mandate was hammered-out.  It was NOT the case that the Zionist _(whatever you perceive them to be)_ had the power to independently initiate and effectively facilitate Jewish immigration of those willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).

•  There was no importation; as if the Jewish were some sort of property _(goods or services)_ being brought into the territory from abroad for sale.

•  There was no original intent, by the Allied Powers, to establish a Jewish State; BUT rather a JNH _(a Jewish State being only one of several possible solutions to this end)_.  However, the circumstances developing overtime, manipulated by the obstructionists within the HoAP Community, began to narrow the possible alternatives.  Whether we talk about the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(within the __Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ or the 1929 Arab Riots _(disputes between Muslims and Jews over access to the __Western Wall)_, the development of the Palestinian Black Hand, or fast forwarding to the 1947 adoption of the first two-state solution [A/RES/181 (II)], the effect was all the same.

•  The acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine was always a pillar to the JNH plan; well before the conflict erupted between the Jewish and Arab People.​


P F Tinmore said:


> The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.
> 
> Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

The concept that Israel had to or must "legally acquired any land" is an aberration on the part of the HoAP.

The ICJ has considered nine different types of territorial acquisition; --- all of which have been discussed in one form or another in these threads.  All nine (found in pages 11782 - 1792 --- Duke Law Journal) have some similarity to the Arab - Israeli Disputes in one form or another.  But I submit just three for your consideration today:

*•  **Uti possidetis*

_*Uti possidetis*,_ a principle used to define postcolonial boundaries in Latin America, Asia, and Africa, is a doctrine under which newly independent states inherit the preindependence administrative boundaries set by the former colonial power.  The doctrine posits that title to the colonial territory devolves to the local authorities and prevails over any competing claim based on occupation.  Thus, *Uti possidetis* is predicated on a rejection of self-determination and assumes that internal, administrative boundaries are functionally equivalent to international boundaries.  Commentators criticize *uti possidetis* because administrative colonial borders were almost always vaguely drawn and did not correspond to the inhabitant populations.  Consequently, these commentators argue, reliance on *uti possidetis* has led to many border disputes.​*•   Elitism*

_*Elitist claims*_ to territory contend that a “particular minority has the right or duty to control certain territories.”  Conquerors—who, historically, made such claims most frequently—often shaped them in terms of divine rights to rule certain territory.  Such claims have become rarer over time because they “run counter to the democratic ideal.”  Nevertheless, *Elitist claims* have a modern and public incarnation in arguments for territory based on superior technological ability—a particular group claims control over a territory by virtue of having the capacity to develop the land’s potential most fully.  Such claims are consistent with a labor theory of property law, which grants property rights to the person (or entity) investing labor in the land, thereby making it productive.  But for the capable person’s labor or technological ability, the territory’s resources and potential would not be tapped.​
_*•  *__*Ideology *_

_*Ideological justifications*_ resemble claims of a “special mission” based in “unique identification with the land” and having inherent “exclusivist overtones.”  Thus, *Ideological justifications* for territorial claims are more appropriately termed ideologically imperialist.  Chief examples of this claim are the Crusades, the Ottoman Turks’ eastern advance, anti-colonialism, and social justice, among others.  The anticolonial *Ideological justification*, which argues that colonial borders are_ per se_ inappropriate delimiters of territory for moral or legal reasons, is essentially the antithesis of a _*uti possidetis*_ claim.​

Often, we have heard that the Arab Pales5inian has some sort of "inherent “exclusivist overtones."  That is, they hold some special privileged over the Jewish Immigrants under the Allied Powers establishment of the JNH.  And they hold that their inherent “exclusivity"  overrides Jewish Self-determination or the administration established by treaty.

Similarly,  the Arab Palestinian has exerted the postcolonial boundaries claim, as in the suggestion that the borders existed before such boundaries were fixed by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Not exactly correct.  While it is very coneinitnet for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to make such an assumption for the purpose of justifying their argument, the facts are entirely different.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers *imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians*.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Four points need to be made here.
> 
> •  The decision to facilitate the immigration of the Jewish People was made "by the Allied Powers" during the San Remo Convention of 1920; when the framework of the Mandate was hammered-out.  It was NOT the case that the Zionist _(whatever you perceive them to be)_ had the power to independently initiate and effectively facilitate Jewish immigration of those willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).
> 
> •  There was no importation; as if the Jewish were some sort of property _(goods or services)_ being brought into the territory from abroad for sale.
> 
> •  There was no original intent, by the Allied Powers, to establish a Jewish State; BUT rather a JNH _(a Jewish State being only one of several possible solutions to this end)_.  However, the circumstances developing overtime, manipulated by the obstructionists within the HoAP Community, began to narrow the possible alternatives.  Whether we talk about the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(within the __Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ or the 1929 Arab Riots _(disputes between Muslims and Jews over access to the __Western Wall)_, the development of the Palestinian Black Hand, or fast forwarding to the 1947 adoption of the first two-state solution [A/RES/181 (II)], the effect was all the same.
> 
> •  The acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine was always a pillar to the JNH plan; well before the conflict erupted between the Jewish and Arab People.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.
> 
> Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The concept that Israel had to or must "legally acquired any land" is an aberration on the part of the HoAP.
> 
> The ICJ has considered nine different types of territorial acquisition; --- all of which have been discussed in one form or another in these threads.  All nine (found in pages 11782 - 1792 --- Duke Law Journal) have some similarity to the Arab - Israeli Disputes in one form or another.  But I submit just three for your consideration today:
> 
> *•  **Uti possidetis*
> 
> _*Uti possidetis*,_ a principle used to define postcolonial boundaries in Latin America, Asia, and Africa, is a doctrine under which newly independent states inherit the preindependence administrative boundaries set by the former colonial power.  The doctrine posits that title to the colonial territory devolves to the local authorities and prevails over any competing claim based on occupation.  Thus, *Uti possidetis* is predicated on a rejection of self-determination and assumes that internal, administrative boundaries are functionally equivalent to international boundaries.  Commentators criticize *uti possidetis* because administrative colonial borders were almost always vaguely drawn and did not correspond to the inhabitant populations.  Consequently, these commentators argue, reliance on *uti possidetis* has led to many border disputes.​*•   Elitism*
> 
> _*Elitist claims*_ to territory contend that a “particular minority has the right or duty to control certain territories.”  Conquerors—who, historically, made such claims most frequently—often shaped them in terms of divine rights to rule certain territory.  Such claims have become rarer over time because they “run counter to the democratic ideal.”  Nevertheless, *Elitist claims* have a modern and public incarnation in arguments for territory based on superior technological ability—a particular group claims control over a territory by virtue of having the capacity to develop the land’s potential most fully.  Such claims are consistent with a labor theory of property law, which grants property rights to the person (or entity) investing labor in the land, thereby making it productive.  But for the capable person’s labor or technological ability, the territory’s resources and potential would not be tapped.​
> _*•  *__*Ideology *_
> 
> _*Ideological justifications*_ resemble claims of a “special mission” based in “unique identification with the land” and having inherent “exclusivist overtones.”  Thus, *Ideological justifications* for territorial claims are more appropriately termed ideologically imperialist.  Chief examples of this claim are the Crusades, the Ottoman Turks’ eastern advance, anti-colonialism, and social justice, among others.  The anticolonial *Ideological justification*, which argues that colonial borders are_ per se_ inappropriate delimiters of territory for moral or legal reasons, is essentially the antithesis of a _*uti possidetis*_ claim.​
> 
> Often, we have heard that the Arab Pales5inian has some sort of "inherent “exclusivist overtones."  That is, they hold some special privileged over the Jewish Immigrants under the Allied Powers establishment of the JNH.  And they hold that their inherent “exclusivity"  overrides Jewish Self-determination or the administration established by treaty.
> 
> Similarly,  the Arab Palestinian has exerted the postcolonial boundaries claim, as in the suggestion that the borders existed before such boundaries were fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever. Palestine's international borders were defined by post war treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the land to the respective successor states. The Palestinians became the citizens of Palestine. The Palestinians, as the people of the place, have the universal list of inherent, inalienable rights. These rights have been reaffirmed by subsequent UN resolutions.

The British Mandate was imposed on them by military force. The immigration laws, and other laws and policies, were imposed on them by military force. The Zionist's importing foreign settlers by the boatload was imposed on them by military force.

It is interesting that you do not see any violations here. It must be that old government employee attitude.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians became the citizens of Palestine. The Palestinians, as the people of the place, have the universal list of inherent, inalienable rights.



There are two distinct groups within the borders of Palestine and as you (correctly) point out became Palestinian citizens -- Jews and Arabs.  It is a civil war.  Therefore there is no occupation.  There are no other actors.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Not exactly correct.  While it is very coneinitnet for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to make such an assumption for the purpose of justifying their argument, the facts are entirely different.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers *imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians*.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Four points need to be made here.
> 
> •  The decision to facilitate the immigration of the Jewish People was made "by the Allied Powers" during the San Remo Convention of 1920; when the framework of the Mandate was hammered-out.  It was NOT the case that the Zionist _(whatever you perceive them to be)_ had the power to independently initiate and effectively facilitate Jewish immigration of those willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).
> 
> •  There was no importation; as if the Jewish were some sort of property _(goods or services)_ being brought into the territory from abroad for sale.
> 
> •  There was no original intent, by the Allied Powers, to establish a Jewish State; BUT rather a JNH _(a Jewish State being only one of several possible solutions to this end)_.  However, the circumstances developing overtime, manipulated by the obstructionists within the HoAP Community, began to narrow the possible alternatives.  Whether we talk about the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(within the __Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ or the 1929 Arab Riots _(disputes between Muslims and Jews over access to the __Western Wall)_, the development of the Palestinian Black Hand, or fast forwarding to the 1947 adoption of the first two-state solution [A/RES/181 (II)], the effect was all the same.
> 
> •  The acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine was always a pillar to the JNH plan; well before the conflict erupted between the Jewish and Arab People.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.
> 
> Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The concept that Israel had to or must "legally acquired any land" is an aberration on the part of the HoAP.
> 
> The ICJ has considered nine different types of territorial acquisition; --- all of which have been discussed in one form or another in these threads.  All nine (found in pages 11782 - 1792 --- Duke Law Journal) have some similarity to the Arab - Israeli Disputes in one form or another.  But I submit just three for your consideration today:
> 
> *•  **Uti possidetis*
> 
> _*Uti possidetis*,_ a principle used to define postcolonial boundaries in Latin America, Asia, and Africa, is a doctrine under which newly independent states inherit the preindependence administrative boundaries set by the former colonial power.  The doctrine posits that title to the colonial territory devolves to the local authorities and prevails over any competing claim based on occupation.  Thus, *Uti possidetis* is predicated on a rejection of self-determination and assumes that internal, administrative boundaries are functionally equivalent to international boundaries.  Commentators criticize *uti possidetis* because administrative colonial borders were almost always vaguely drawn and did not correspond to the inhabitant populations.  Consequently, these commentators argue, reliance on *uti possidetis* has led to many border disputes.​*•   Elitism*
> 
> _*Elitist claims*_ to territory contend that a “particular minority has the right or duty to control certain territories.”  Conquerors—who, historically, made such claims most frequently—often shaped them in terms of divine rights to rule certain territory.  Such claims have become rarer over time because they “run counter to the democratic ideal.”  Nevertheless, *Elitist claims* have a modern and public incarnation in arguments for territory based on superior technological ability—a particular group claims control over a territory by virtue of having the capacity to develop the land’s potential most fully.  Such claims are consistent with a labor theory of property law, which grants property rights to the person (or entity) investing labor in the land, thereby making it productive.  But for the capable person’s labor or technological ability, the territory’s resources and potential would not be tapped.​
> _*•  *__*Ideology *_
> 
> _*Ideological justifications*_ resemble claims of a “special mission” based in “unique identification with the land” and having inherent “exclusivist overtones.”  Thus, *Ideological justifications* for territorial claims are more appropriately termed ideologically imperialist.  Chief examples of this claim are the Crusades, the Ottoman Turks’ eastern advance, anti-colonialism, and social justice, among others.  The anticolonial *Ideological justification*, which argues that colonial borders are_ per se_ inappropriate delimiters of territory for moral or legal reasons, is essentially the antithesis of a _*uti possidetis*_ claim.​
> 
> Often, we have heard that the Arab Pales5inian has some sort of "inherent “exclusivist overtones."  That is, they hold some special privileged over the Jewish Immigrants under the Allied Powers establishment of the JNH.  And they hold that their inherent “exclusivity"  overrides Jewish Self-determination or the administration established by treaty.
> 
> Similarly,  the Arab Palestinian has exerted the postcolonial boundaries claim, as in the suggestion that the borders existed before such boundaries were fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, whatever. Palestine's international borders were defined by post war treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the land to the respective successor states. The Palestinians became the citizens of Palestine. The Palestinians, as the people of the place, have the universal list of inherent, inalienable rights. These rights have been reaffirmed by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> The British Mandate was imposed on them by military force. The immigration laws, and other laws and policies, were imposed on them by military force. The Zionist's importing foreign settlers by the boatload was imposed on them by military force.
> 
> It is interesting that you do not see any violations here. It must be that old government employee attitude.
Click to expand...



Britain won the land from the Ottoman Empire.  To the victor goes the spoils.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Not exactly correct.  While it is very coneinitnet for the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) to make such an assumption for the purpose of justifying their argument, the facts are entirely different.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is what many people hope the interpretation will be. IF it is true, and Israel is inside a single set borders composed of by both Israelis and Arab Palestinians, THEN there will be some broad implications:
> 
> •→ The entire conflict between (strictly) the Arab Palestinians and the Israelis will be a civil war (Jewish Palestinians against Arab Palestinians).
> 
> 
> 
> You are, again, basing your conclusion of false premise. You say that there were Jewish and Arab Palestinians. The Jewish colonial settlers *imported by the Zionists were never intended to be Palestinians*.  They were imported to be the citizens of their planned Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Four points need to be made here.
> 
> •  The decision to facilitate the immigration of the Jewish People was made "by the Allied Powers" during the San Remo Convention of 1920; when the framework of the Mandate was hammered-out.  It was NOT the case that the Zionist _(whatever you perceive them to be)_ had the power to independently initiate and effectively facilitate Jewish immigration of those willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).
> 
> •  There was no importation; as if the Jewish were some sort of property _(goods or services)_ being brought into the territory from abroad for sale.
> 
> •  There was no original intent, by the Allied Powers, to establish a Jewish State; BUT rather a JNH _(a Jewish State being only one of several possible solutions to this end)_.  However, the circumstances developing overtime, manipulated by the obstructionists within the HoAP Community, began to narrow the possible alternatives.  Whether we talk about the 1920 Jerusalem riots _(within the __Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ or the 1929 Arab Riots _(disputes between Muslims and Jews over access to the __Western Wall)_, the development of the Palestinian Black Hand, or fast forwarding to the 1947 adoption of the first two-state solution [A/RES/181 (II)], the effect was all the same.
> 
> •  The acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine was always a pillar to the JNH plan; well before the conflict erupted between the Jewish and Arab People.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Zionist's stated goal was to colonize Palestine until such time as they could implement that plan. The Zionists mooched Britain's military to run cover for their settler colonial enterprise. Britain allowed them to build a "state within a state" (Britain's term for the project.) until they had the power and infrastructure to take over Palestine.
> 
> Israel's biggest problem, aside from violating international law all over the place, is that it has never legally acquired any land. It sits inside Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The concept that Israel had to or must "legally acquired any land" is an aberration on the part of the HoAP.
> 
> The ICJ has considered nine different types of territorial acquisition; --- all of which have been discussed in one form or another in these threads.  All nine (found in pages 11782 - 1792 --- Duke Law Journal) have some similarity to the Arab - Israeli Disputes in one form or another.  But I submit just three for your consideration today:
> 
> *•  **Uti possidetis*
> 
> _*Uti possidetis*,_ a principle used to define postcolonial boundaries in Latin America, Asia, and Africa, is a doctrine under which newly independent states inherit the preindependence administrative boundaries set by the former colonial power.  The doctrine posits that title to the colonial territory devolves to the local authorities and prevails over any competing claim based on occupation.  Thus, *Uti possidetis* is predicated on a rejection of self-determination and assumes that internal, administrative boundaries are functionally equivalent to international boundaries.  Commentators criticize *uti possidetis* because administrative colonial borders were almost always vaguely drawn and did not correspond to the inhabitant populations.  Consequently, these commentators argue, reliance on *uti possidetis* has led to many border disputes.​*•   Elitism*
> 
> _*Elitist claims*_ to territory contend that a “particular minority has the right or duty to control certain territories.”  Conquerors—who, historically, made such claims most frequently—often shaped them in terms of divine rights to rule certain territory.  Such claims have become rarer over time because they “run counter to the democratic ideal.”  Nevertheless, *Elitist claims* have a modern and public incarnation in arguments for territory based on superior technological ability—a particular group claims control over a territory by virtue of having the capacity to develop the land’s potential most fully.  Such claims are consistent with a labor theory of property law, which grants property rights to the person (or entity) investing labor in the land, thereby making it productive.  But for the capable person’s labor or technological ability, the territory’s resources and potential would not be tapped.​
> _*•  *__*Ideology *_
> 
> _*Ideological justifications*_ resemble claims of a “special mission” based in “unique identification with the land” and having inherent “exclusivist overtones.”  Thus, *Ideological justifications* for territorial claims are more appropriately termed ideologically imperialist.  Chief examples of this claim are the Crusades, the Ottoman Turks’ eastern advance, anti-colonialism, and social justice, among others.  The anticolonial *Ideological justification*, which argues that colonial borders are_ per se_ inappropriate delimiters of territory for moral or legal reasons, is essentially the antithesis of a _*uti possidetis*_ claim.​
> 
> Often, we have heard that the Arab Pales5inian has some sort of "inherent “exclusivist overtones."  That is, they hold some special privileged over the Jewish Immigrants under the Allied Powers establishment of the JNH.  And they hold that their inherent “exclusivity"  overrides Jewish Self-determination or the administration established by treaty.
> 
> Similarly,  the Arab Palestinian has exerted the postcolonial boundaries claim, as in the suggestion that the borders existed before such boundaries were fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, whatever. Palestine's international borders were defined by post war treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the land to the respective successor states. The Palestinians became the citizens of Palestine. The Palestinians, as the people of the place, have the universal list of inherent, inalienable rights. These rights have been reaffirmed by subsequent UN resolutions.
> 
> The British Mandate was imposed on them by military force. The immigration laws, and other laws and policies, were imposed on them by military force. The Zionist's importing foreign settlers by the boatload was imposed on them by military force.
> 
> It is interesting that you do not see any violations here. It must be that old government employee attitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Britain won the land from the Ottoman Empire.  To the victor goes the spoils.
Click to expand...

Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed that land. The land was ceded to the respective successor states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens of Palestine. The Palestinians, as the people of the place, have the universal list of inherent, inalienable rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two distinct groups within the borders of Palestine and as you (correctly) point out became Palestinian citizens -- Jews and Arabs.  It is a civil war.  Therefore there is no occupation.  There are no other actors.
Click to expand...

When the natives are attacked by foreign settlers, it is not a civil war.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed that land. The land was ceded to the respective successor states.



No.  It was not. It was not ceded.  It was renounced by Turkey.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When the natives are attacked by foreign settlers, it is not a civil war.



There are no other state actors involved in the conflict.  The conflict is between two ethnic groups with claim over the same territory.  That makes it a civil war.  And civil wars are most often resolved by dividing the territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the natives are attacked by foreign settlers, it is not a civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no other state actors involved in the conflict.  The conflict is between two ethnic groups with claim over the same territory.  That makes it a civil war.  And civil wars are most often resolved by dividing the territory.
Click to expand...

Two ethnic groups.
The natives.
Foreign settlers.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Two ethnic groups.
> The natives.
> Foreign settlers.



Two ethnic groups.

The natives who stayed in the land and the natives who returned to the land.
The natives who stayed in the land and who mixed with Arab invaders and colonizers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed that land. The land was ceded to the respective successor states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  It was not. It was not ceded.  It was renounced by Turkey.
Click to expand...

NATIONALITY.
ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects *habitually resident in territory* which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred. *

Treaty of Lausanne - World War I Document Archive


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ARTICLE 30.
> 
> Turkish subjects *habitually resident in territory* which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, *nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.*




*ARTICLE 16*.

*Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories *situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.*



Article 16 is the article which removes the territory from Turkish sovereignty.  It is not ceded to any one, but is left for future settlements by the parties concerned.  There are no "successor states" listed in this treaty.  And certainly none that the territory is ceded directly to.

Article 30 is a safeguard to prevent Turkish subjects from statelessness.  It protects the rights of individual citizens and not the political rights of any particular nation or State.  It does not suggest sovereignty over territory in any way by any particular identifiable group.  It is simply a way of ensuring the right to citizenship for individuals.

So no, your claim that Turkey ceded that particular territory to something or somebody specific is blatantly false.[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.


Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
Click to expand...


But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.  

So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
Click to expand...

Don't blame your reading comprehension problem on me.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
Click to expand...



It only says that the individuals living in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire will now become the citizens of their respective successor states.  But it never mentions Palestine as a successor state.  Israel could be considered a successor state of the Ottoman Empire.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problem on me.
Click to expand...


Sigh.  Only someone who believes that Israel does not actually exist would insist that:

"Turkey renounces all claims to the territory and leaves it in the hands of the parties concerned"

actually means

"Turkey cedes the territory to the State of Palestine".


And then blames it on my reading comprehension.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It only says that the individuals living in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire will now become the citizens of their respective successor states.  But it never mentions Palestine as a successor state.  Israel could be considered a successor state of the Ottoman Empire.
Click to expand...

Now *that* is funny. 

You wouldn't have a link for that, would you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problem on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sigh.  Only someone who believes that Israel does not actually exist would insist that:
> 
> "Turkey renounces all claims to the territory and leaves it in the hands of the parties concerned"
> 
> actually means
> 
> "Turkey cedes the territory to the State of Palestine".
> 
> 
> And then blames it on my reading comprehension.
Click to expand...

The citizens of the states are the parties concerned.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It only says that the individuals living in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire will now become the citizens of their respective successor states.  But it never mentions Palestine as a successor state.  Israel could be considered a successor state of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> You wouldn't have a link for that, would you?
Click to expand...



LINK


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It only says that the individuals living in the areas of the former Ottoman Empire will now become the citizens of their respective successor states.  But it never mentions Palestine as a successor state.  Israel could be considered a successor state of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
> 
> You wouldn't have a link for that, would you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LINK
Click to expand...

It is the rule of popular sovereignty. The people have the right to sovereignty within their territory.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The people have the right to sovereignty within their territory.



Could not agree with you more.  Indeed, you are the one which holds this not to be true.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty within their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could not agree with you more.  Indeed, you are the one which holds this not to be true.
Click to expand...

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and *sovereignty*;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people have the right to sovereignty within their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could not agree with you more.  Indeed, you are the one which holds this not to be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and *sovereignty*;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237
Click to expand...



Sure.  I'm with you.  I agree with that.  I agree that the Arab Palestinian people have the right to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty.  Over at least one more State, and probably two.  

Your turn:

_...establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, ...whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country;_


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I have to chuckle every time you say this....



P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, whatever. Palestine's international borders were defined by post war treaties. The Treaty of Lausanne ceded the land to the respective successor states.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed that land. The land was ceded to the respective successor states.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Treaty of Lausanne does not mention "Palestine" even once.  The Treaty does not mention the successor state requirements.

Another important understanding to remember is that although Turkey voted against UN Resolution 181 (II) of November 1947, Turkey was the first state, with a majority of its citizenry --- holding the Muslim faith --- to recognize the State of Israel.

•→  _New World Encyclopedia_
"The Ottoman government signed an armistice on October 30, 1918. The Treaty of Sèvres was signed on August 10, 1920 but this was never ratified by the Turkish Parliament. Russia negotiated a separate treaty, the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1918. With the Empire dismembered, one issue was: *what status would Turkey be allowed; and another issue was the redistribution of territory.* The division of the Middle Eastern provinces of the empire between the three powers was recognized; other territories went to Greece and Russia and the area which became Saudi Arabia was declared an independent state. The Treaty left the Ottoman government in place but appointed Britain, France and Italy to manage Turkey's finances and restricted the size of the army to 50,000 men.  Some people would be arrested for war crimes."​
The Redistribution of the Ottoman territory outside the boundaries of Turkey was NOT unique at all;  but, was customary for the that period in time.  Individually, the Allied Powers were very familiar with the concepts of establishing protectorates and outreaching colonies well before WWI.   The redistribution was not considered a one-of-a-kind solution or the uncommon treatment when dividing up territories of defeated state _(Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic)_.

It is not the case that the outlying political subdivision of Turkey, or even Turkey itself, had very much to say about the territorial redistribution.  Certainly, the Citizenry of the former Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) of the Allied Powers had little or no input --- or --- could effect the outcome; including the redistribution of territory; in as much as the Syke-Picot Agreement had already been made.  The occupation, the treaty and the redistribution of territory were totally in the hands of the Allied Powers and determined well before the conclusion of hostilities.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

Wow --- Do you have a lot of room to talk.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problem on me.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The treaty does not mention the linage of a "successor state" --- or --- "successor government" in any part of the treaty.  While it does mention "transfer" --- that was not in reference to either "sovereignty" or "territory."

DO NOT confuse "nationality" with "sovereignty."  They are not the same thing.

The transfer of nationality to another authority is not the same as the transfer of sovereign territory.  The "nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred" does not negate the fact that the Sykes-Picot Agreement determined the distribution of the territory, NOT THE TREATY.

The people_ (and thus the nationality)_ follow the Agreement made by the Allied Powers.

The intent of Article 30 is to resolve the potential for "stateless people."  Understanding the intent is the key to understanding the outcome.

I would not worry about the reading comprehension skills of Shusha.  It is yours that need some honing.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_
> 
> Wow --- Do you have a lot of room to talk.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, to the respective states the land was ceded to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that is not IN the document you quoted.  The Treaty of Lausanne does not cede land to respective states.  It only documents the renuciation of that land by Turkey.
> 
> So which document the result of further negotiation and the settlement by the parties concerned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problem on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The treaty does not mention the linage of a "successor state" --- or --- "successor government" in any part of the treaty.  While it does mention "transfer" --- that was not in reference to either "sovereignty" or "territory."
> 
> DO NOT confuse "nationality" with "sovereignty."  They are not the same thing.
> 
> The transfer of nationality to another authority is not the same as the transfer of sovereign territory.  The "nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred" does not negate the fact that the Sykes-Picot Agreement determined the distribution of the territory, NOT THE TREATY.
> 
> The people_ (and thus the nationality)_ follow the Agreement made by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The intent of Article 30 is to resolve the potential for "stateless people."  Understanding the intent is the key to understanding the outcome.
> 
> I would not worry about the reading comprehension skills of Shusha.  It is yours that need some honing.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ah, but they do incorporate the principle of state succession. The people remain the citizens of that land is one of them. Of course the issue of statelessness is addressed also.

The people and the land stay together. The land was transferred to Palestine, the Palestinians became the citizens, and the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty. The rule of popular sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

Oh, don't read into something that is not there.



P F Tinmore said:


> Ah, but they do incorporate the principle of state succession. The people remain the citizens of that land is one of them.
> .


*(COMMENT)*

The idea of citizenship and sovereignty are NOT the same.  The people are citizens based on the will of the sovereignty.  If the US says you are not a citizens, no matter what principle you cite, you are still not a citizen.  The same is true of every member of the Arab League; you are only a citizen as long as they say you are a citizen.



P F Tinmore said:


> The land was transferred to Palestine,.


*(COMMENT)*

Exactly where does it say that?  Yes, it is true that the Allied Powers agreed to present citizenship to those in the territory of the Mandate they have been assigned.  BUT, it was the Mandate Authority that assigned citizenship, not the treaty and not the non-existent state/government (within the boundaries as defined).  Just like the Lebanese and the Jordanians, the Allied Powers determined the boundaries and then established citizenship protocols.  






The *Palestinian Authority Passport/Travel Document* Arabic: جواز سفر‎ (_Jawaz Safar_) 
is a passport/travel document issued since April 1995 by the Palestinian Authority to 
Palestinian residents of the Palestinian territories for the purpose of international travel.

The Palestinian Authority passport is available to anyone on production of a birth certificate 
showing that they were born in Palestine. _*What constitutes "Palestine" for this purpose is 
not clear. *_ In practice, only residents of areas under the Palestinian Authority jurisdiction 
can apply. Whether Palestinians born outside Palestine could apply for the passport is also
not clear.[1]

However, the passport issuance is subject to additional restrictions imposed by the 
Israeli government.[1] Israel asserts that the requirement is permitted for security 
needs under the Interim Agreement.[2]

[1]  INS Resource Information Center (May 20, 2002). "Palestinian Territory, Occupied" (PDF). UNHCR. Retrieved 2009-01-24.
[2]  UNHCR 17 Dec 1998: Palestine/Occupied Territories: Information On Passports Issued By The Palestine National Authority Archived 2012-10-12 ​
(By REUTERS December 21, 2015)  Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in Athens on Monday that his national authority was going to issue State of Palestine passports within 2016.​


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians became the citizens, and the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

How do you know when a people (in this case Palestinians) have sovereignty?

Describe the essential elements of sovereignty; so I might be able to distinguish between those that have sovereignty, and those that do not.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_
> 
> Oh, don't read into something that is not there.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, but they do incorporate the principle of state succession. The people remain the citizens of that land is one of them.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of citizenship and sovereignty are NOT the same.  The people are citizens based on the will of the sovereignty.  If the US says you are not a citizens, no matter what principle you cite, you are still not a citizen.  The same is true of every member of the Arab League; you are only a citizen as long as they say you are a citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was transferred to Palestine,.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Exactly where does it say that?  Yes, it is true that the Allied Powers agreed to present citizenship to those in the territory of the Mandate they have been assigned.  BUT, it was the Mandate Authority that assigned citizenship, not the treaty and not the non-existent state/government (within the boundaries as defined).  Just like the Lebanese and the Jordanians, the Allied Powers determined the boundaries and then established citizenship protocols.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Palestinian Authority Passport/Travel Document* Arabic: جواز سفر‎ (_Jawaz Safar_)
> is a passport/travel document issued since April 1995 by the Palestinian Authority to
> Palestinian residents of the Palestinian territories for the purpose of international travel.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority passport is available to anyone on production of a birth certificate
> showing that they were born in Palestine. _*What constitutes "Palestine" for this purpose is
> not clear. *_ In practice, only residents of areas under the Palestinian Authority jurisdiction
> can apply. Whether Palestinians born outside Palestine could apply for the passport is also
> not clear.[1]
> 
> However, the passport issuance is subject to additional restrictions imposed by the
> Israeli government.[1] Israel asserts that the requirement is permitted for security
> needs under the Interim Agreement.[2]​[1]  INS Resource Information Center (May 20, 2002). "Palestinian Territory, Occupied" (PDF). UNHCR. Retrieved 2009-01-24.
> [2]  UNHCR 17 Dec 1998: Palestine/Occupied Territories: Information On Passports Issued By The Palestine National Authority Archived 2012-10-12 ​
> (By REUTERS December 21, 2015)  Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said in Athens on Monday that his national authority was going to issue State of Palestine passports within 2016.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became the citizens, and the Palestinians have the right to sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you know when a people (in this case Palestinians) have sovereignty?
> 
> Describe the essential elements of sovereignty; so I might be able to distinguish between those that have sovereignty, and those that do not.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The people of the place have the right to sovereignty. The people from someplace else do not.

The Palestinians, being the citizens of a defined territory, have the right to sovereignty.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Oh, come on.



P F Tinmore said:


> The people of the place have the right to sovereignty. The people from someplace else do not.
> 
> The Palestinians, being the citizens of a defined territory, have the right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The people we call Arab Palestinians today _(of the occupied territories --- or --- West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ have never defined a territory.   Only outside influences have stipulated or recognized such.

The regional area you refer to as "Palestine" was defined within such boundaries as fixed by the Allied Powers _(specifically the Mandatory Powers -- Great Britain and France)_.  

*(QUESTIONs)*

What territory did the Arabs define (borders) as "Palestine?"  

What means or forum did they use?
When did they do that?  
*(CLARIFICATION)*

All people have the right to self-determination and the protection against all forms of intervention or interference threatening the sovereignty and political independence of the nation form by that self-determination.

This is not unique to the Arabs within the "Palestine" defined within such boundaries as fixed by the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> All people have the right to self-determination and the protection against all forms of intervention or interference threatening the sovereignty and political independence of the nation form by that self-determination.



That is what I have been saying for years.

The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine by treaty, international and domestic law. They are the undisputed people of the place.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> All people have the right to self-determination and the protection against all forms of intervention or interference threatening the sovereignty and political independence of the nation form by that self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I have been saying for years.
> 
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine by treaty, international and domestic law. They are the undisputed people of the place.
Click to expand...

*(OBSERVATION)*

•   *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by Mandate.

√  Article 7, Mandate for Palestine:

There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine. ​•   *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by International Law

_√  VI.--Nationality.  _*(APPENDICES TO THE REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON
THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924.)*

1._Q._--What is the text of the Nationality law?

2. _Q._--Have special provisions been enacted, framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews?

1 and 2. _A._--The Palestine Citizenship Order-in-Council was drawn up in 1924, but the final text was not settled and the Order made until July, 1925. The matter will therefore be dealt with in the Report for 1925.​*Excerpt The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925*

By virtue and in exercise of the powers in his behalf by the Foreign Jurisdiction Act of 1890, or otherwise, in His Majesty vested , is pleased by and with the advice of His Privy Council to order , and it is ordered as follows:-

PART 1.

(1) Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August 1924 shall become Palestine citizens.

(2) Any person over eighteen years of age who by virtue of this Article becomes a Palestinian citizen may [...]

(3) Any person over eighteen years of age who by virtue of clause (1) of this Article becomes a Palestinian citizen and differs in race from the majority of the population of Palestine may in the like manner and subject to the same conditions opt for the nationality of one of the States in which the majority of the population is of the same race as the person exercising the right to opt subject to the consent of that State and he shall thereupon cease to be a Palestinian citizen.​
Article 21: Definitions

For the purpose of this Order:

1. The expression “Palestine” includes the territories to which the mandate for Palestine applies, except such parts of the territories comprised in Palestine to the east of Jordan and the Dead Sea as were defined by Order of the High Commissioner dated the first of September 1922.

2. The expression “Palestinian citizen” means a person who is by birth or becomes by naturalisation of otherwise a Palestinian citizen.​•  *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by domestic law.

√  Readings on Citizenship and Nationality in Israel/Palestine​
*(COMMENT)*

The major discrepancy and dispute is in the understanding of the territorial effective control.

The territorial area in the region, which is discussed here as "Palestine" _(as defined within the boundaries described by the Allied Powers)_ had not been sovereign unto the Arabs for more than a thousand years.  Even today, the question is open as to whether the Arabs have sovereign or effective control over any portion of the  territory formerly under the Administration of the Mandate. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> All people have the right to self-determination and the protection against all forms of intervention or interference threatening the sovereignty and political independence of the nation form by that self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I have been saying for years.
> 
> The Palestinians are the citizens of Palestine by treaty, international and domestic law. They are the undisputed people of the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> •   *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by Mandate.
> 
> √  Article 7, Mandate for Palestine:
> 
> There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​•   *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by International Law
> 
> _√  VI.--Nationality.  _*(APPENDICES TO THE REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ON*
> *THE ADMINISTRATION UNDER MANDATE OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN FOR THE YEAR 1924.)*
> 
> 1._Q._--What is the text of the Nationality law?
> 
> 2. _Q._--Have special provisions been enacted, framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews?
> 
> 1 and 2. _A._--The Palestine Citizenship Order-in-Council was drawn up in 1924, but the final text was not settled and the Order made until July, 1925. The matter will therefore be dealt with in the Report for 1925.​*Excerpt The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925*
> 
> By virtue and in exercise of the powers in his behalf by the Foreign Jurisdiction Act of 1890, or otherwise, in His Majesty vested , is pleased by and with the advice of His Privy Council to order , and it is ordered as follows:-
> 
> PART 1.
> 
> (1) Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August 1924 shall become Palestine citizens.
> 
> (2) Any person over eighteen years of age who by virtue of this Article becomes a Palestinian citizen may [...]
> 
> (3) Any person over eighteen years of age who by virtue of clause (1) of this Article becomes a Palestinian citizen and differs in race from the majority of the population of Palestine may in the like manner and subject to the same conditions opt for the nationality of one of the States in which the majority of the population is of the same race as the person exercising the right to opt subject to the consent of that State and he shall thereupon cease to be a Palestinian citizen.​Article 21: Definitions
> For the purpose of this Order:
> 
> 1. The expression “Palestine” includes the territories to which the mandate for Palestine applies, except such parts of the territories comprised in Palestine to the east of Jordan and the Dead Sea as were defined by Order of the High Commissioner dated the first of September 1922.
> 
> 2. The expression “Palestinian citizen” means a person who is by birth or becomes by naturalisation of otherwise a Palestinian citizen.​•  *The Jewish People* were made the citizens of Palestine by domestic law.
> 
> √  Readings on Citizenship and Nationality in Israel/Palestine​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The major discrepancy and dispute is in the understanding of the territorial effective control.
> 
> The territorial area in the region, which is discussed here as "Palestine" _(as defined within the boundaries described by the Allied Powers)_ had not been sovereign unto the Arabs for more than a thousand years.  Even today, the question is open as to whether the Arabs have sovereign or effective control over any portion of the  territory formerly under the Administration of the Mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The nationality law was imposed on Palestine by military force.

This was a violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination without external interference.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Not all nations of the world hold to the concept that the principle use of military force is a matter of deterrence, defense and maintenance of the peace.  

 Many nations of the world see the use of military force as a necessary tool to protect their national interests —- and —- to carry out national policy as an extension of international diplomacy.

 Historically, many successful empires have used military force to structure a form of composite of fragmented  nations, ruled under a single entity to extend control over greater resources, producing wealth and expanding commerce for the improvement of the entire territory as a whole.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The nationality law was imposed on Palestine by military force.


*(COMMENT)*

The territory called Palestine has been under foreign control imposed by military regimes since before the time of the crusaders, the Fatima and Abbasid Caliphates — until the present (a period of more than a 1000 years).  This span of foreign control —- with the Fatima’s dominating most of the region from NW Africa —- after the Abbasids which governed most of the Islamic world from Baghdad.  

 On the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the surrender of the Turkish Republic, the rule and nationality changes were no different from that experienced by the Middle Easterners from the previous millennium.   

The suggestion that the nationality and citizenship, supported by the forces of the Allied Powers was somehow strange or different —- taken outside the customary rule of law is simply historically inaccurate.   From the time of Persian Rule (540 BC) to the British Mandate (1922) there was no change in sovereignty that was not a shadow outcome of a conflict or war.



			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> This was a violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination without external interference.


*(COMMENT)*

 At mid-night 14/15 May 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel announced its independence on the departure of the British High Commissioner; British control of Palestine officially ended with the successor government handed to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).  This was the exercise of a form of self-determination (alla Chapter I of the UN Charter); fully coordinated in advance with the UNPC.

The UN approved the Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States, the text of which is annexed to the present resolution; (A/RES/36/103 9 December 1981).

The UN adopted the Respect for the principles of national sovereignty and non-interference in the internal affairs of States in their electoral processes (A/RES/50/172 27 FEB 1996).

This aspect of the complaint is rather ambiguous.  It does not stipulate a place on the timeline.  It is unclear if the objection is relative to the pre-Armistice period —- or the —- post-Six Day War period — or the — pre-Jordanian abandonment — or the — period between the abandonment and the PLO Declaration of Independence.  THUS, the issue cannot be addressed — while not knowing the applicable conditions which apply and which laws the Arab Palestinians are claiming to be in their favor.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Not all nations of the world hold to the concept that the principle use of military force is a matter of deterrence, defense and maintenance of the peace.
> 
> Many nations of the world see the use of military force as a necessary tool to protect their national interests —- and —- to carry out national policy as an extension of international diplomacy.
> 
> Historically, many successful empires have used military force to structure a form of composite of fragmented  nations, ruled under a single entity to extend control over greater resources, producing wealth and expanding commerce for the improvement of the entire territory as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The nationality law was imposed on Palestine by military force.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory called Palestine has been under foreign control imposed by military regimes since before the time of the crusaders, the Fatima and Abbasid Caliphates — until the present (a period of more than a 1000 years).  This span of foreign control —- with the Fatima’s dominating most of the region from NW Africa —- after the Abbasids which governed most of the Islamic world from Baghdad.
> 
> On the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the surrender of the Turkish Republic, the rule and nationality changes were no different from that experienced by the Middle Easterners from the previous millennium.
> 
> The suggestion that the nationality and citizenship, supported by the forces of the Allied Powers was somehow strange or different —- taken outside the customary rule of law is simply historically inaccurate.   From the time of Persian Rule (540 BC) to the British Mandate (1922) there was no change in sovereignty that was not a shadow outcome of a conflict or war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's right to self determination without external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> At mid-night 14/15 May 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel announced its independence on the departure of the British High Commissioner; British control of Palestine officially ended with the successor government handed to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC).  This was the exercise of a form of self-determination (alla Chapter I of the UN Charter); fully coordinated in advance with the UNPC.
> 
> The UN approved the Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States, the text of which is annexed to the present resolution; (A/RES/36/103 9 December 1981).
> 
> The UN adopted the Respect for the principles of national sovereignty and non-interference in the internal affairs of States in their electoral processes (A/RES/50/172 27 FEB 1996).
> 
> This aspect of the complaint is rather ambiguous.  It does not stipulate a place on the timeline.  It is unclear if the objection is relative to the pre-Armistice period —- or the —- post-Six Day War period — or the — pre-Jordanian abandonment — or the — period between the abandonment and the PLO Declaration of Independence.  THUS, the issue cannot be addressed — while not knowing the applicable conditions which apply and which laws the Arab Palestinians are claiming to be in their favor.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman. You are bouncing around like a football because you do not have a case. Let's try to get a firm timeline on Palestinian rights.

A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
22 November 1974

_Recognizing_ that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​
These are the Palestinian's rights that already existed in1974. They mentioned the principles of the charter. (1945) The UN is not a legislative body. When they reference international law, they are referencing laws that predate the UN Charter.

So, when did these rights come into existence? I say it was when Palestine came into existence upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.

Do you have a different event that would change my premise?


----------



## Shusha

When did the Jewish rights to self-determination, independence and sovereignty come into existence?  And through what legal instruments?


----------



## Shusha

When did the Jordanians acquire rights?  When did the Catalans?  Or the Kurds?  Or the First Nations peoples of the Americas?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, --- not that I don't agree that (in general) all people have the benefit of making a self-determination, or that all nations should refrain from interfering in the domestic affairs of other nations --- it is not unique by any means to the Arab Palestinians.

•  Article 1(2):  "respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples"
•  Article 2(7) - the prohibition against intervening:  "in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state"​


P F Tinmore said:


> A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> *22 November 1974*​Do you have a different event that would change my premise?


*(COMMENT)*

What is your premise???

Now the timeline is important from the standpoint --- in that it took:

•  "Quarter of a Century" for any mention of this after Israeli Independence (1948) and the Arab League attack.
•  "Seven (7) years" after the Six-Day War (1967).
•  "A year" after the Yom Kipper (Arab Sneak) Attack (1973).

√  It was an unjustified complaint registered 14 years before the 1988 PLO bid for Independence; presented a month before the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine 
given in Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 (the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people).​
The entire anti-Israeli campaign since the conclusion of the 1973 Yom Kipper War was a conflict in which the Arab Palestinian seeks vengeance and retribution for the inability for the Arab Palestinian to achieve their objectives that they could not meet through more mature diplomatic and political means. 

None of this is about the fake Political face concerned about sovereignty, self-determination and external interference.  It is all about the crybaby Arab Palestinians that could not achieve their goals through peaceful means; and resorts to violence. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, --- not that I don't agree that (in general) all people have the benefit of making a self-determination, or that all nations should refrain from interfering in the domestic affairs of other nations --- it is not unique by any means to the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Article 1(2):  "respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples"
> •  Article 2(7) - the prohibition against intervening:  "in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state"​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/*3236* (XXIX)
> *22 November 1974*​Do you have a different event that would change my premise?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is your premise???
> 
> Now the timeline is important from the standpoint --- in that it took:
> 
> •  "Quarter of a Century" for any mention of this after Israeli Independence (1948) and the Arab League attack.
> •  "Seven (7) years" after the Six-Day War (1967).
> •  "A year" after the Yom Kipper (Arab Sneak) Attack (1973).
> 
> √  It was an unjustified complaint registered 14 years before the 1988 PLO bid for Independence; presented a month before the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine
> given in Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 (the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people).​
> The entire anti-Israeli campaign since the conclusion of the 1973 Yom Kipper War was a conflict in which the Arab Palestinian seeks vengeance and retribution for the inability for the Arab Palestinian to achieve their objectives that they could not meet through more mature diplomatic and political means.
> 
> None of this is about the fake Political face concerned about sovereignty, self-determination and external interference.  It is all about the crybaby Arab Palestinians that could not achieve their goals through peaceful means; and resorts to violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Sorry, Rocco, but I can't find anything in all of this verbosity that addresses my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Left Forum 2012 Islamophobia Session with Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, when did these rights come into existence? I say it was when Palestine came into existence upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Do you have a different event that would change my premise?



These rights (to self-determination, sovereignty and independence) don't "come into existence" for a certain people at a certain time.  They are inherent and exist in all people at all times.  The rights are not dependent on external influence or factors, but arise naturally through the will of the people.  Would you agree or disagree?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you don't find a connection because you don't want to admit the connection.



P F Tinmore said:


> These are the Palestinian's rights that already existed in1974. They mentioned the principles of the charter. (1945) The UN is not a legislative body. When they reference international law, they are referencing laws that predate the UN Charter.
> 
> So, when did these rights come into existence? I say it was when Palestine came into existence upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Do you have a different event that would change my premise?





P F Tinmore said:


> Sorry, Rocco, but I can't find anything in all of this verbosity that addresses my post.


*(COMMENT)*

You are correct.  The UN, is not principally a "legislative body" (voting to make law).  The UN can _(and does)_ makes Treaties and Conventions _(international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law - See the Article 2, *Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties*); _of which the UN Charter is one - legally binding.  These are binding agreements and are an international source of law _(See *The Statute of the ICJ, Article 38* five sources of International Law)_;  separate and distinct from non-binding resolutions_ [like your example *A/RES/3236 (XXIX)*]_.   

While the *Treaty of Lausanne* is based on respect for the independence and sovereignty of States, the treaty itself promises nothing to the inhabitants --- formerly under Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (EOTA).  It was a Treaty of Peace between Turkey and the Allied Powers; which made no mention of Palestine as either a state, region or territory.  AND while there were independent and sovereign states covered under the treaty that were detached from Turkey → there was no political subdivision in the purview of the British Mandate that was either independent _(self-governing)_ or sovereign _(possessing ultimate governmental authority or power)_.

Finally, since 15 May 1948, the Independence and sovereignty has been upheld by self-determination, several critical military engagements, and the ongoing conflict with a people that have sworn to continue the armed struggle as the overall strategy to assume control over Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you don't find a connection because you don't want to admit the connection.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are the Palestinian's rights that already existed in1974. They mentioned the principles of the charter. (1945) The UN is not a legislative body. When they reference international law, they are referencing laws that predate the UN Charter.
> 
> So, when did these rights come into existence? I say it was when Palestine came into existence upon the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Do you have a different event that would change my premise?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Rocco, but I can't find anything in all of this verbosity that addresses my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are correct.  The UN, is not principally a "legislative body" (voting to make law).  The UN can _(and does)_ makes Treaties and Conventions _(international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law - See the Article 2, *Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties*); _of which the UN Charter is one - legally binding.  These are binding agreements and are an international source of law _(See *The Statute of the ICJ, Article 38* five sources of International Law)_;  separate and distinct from non-binding resolutions_ [like your example *A/RES/3236 (XXIX)*]_.
> 
> While the *Treaty of Lausanne* is based on respect for the independence and sovereignty of States, the treaty itself promises nothing to the inhabitants --- formerly under Enemy Occupied Territory Administration (EOTA).  It was a Treaty of Peace between Turkey and the Allied Powers; which made no mention of Palestine as either a state, region or territory.  AND while there were independent and sovereign states covered under the treaty that were detached from Turkey → there was no political subdivision in the purview of the British Mandate that was either independent _(self-governing)_ or sovereign _(possessing ultimate governmental authority or power)_.
> 
> Finally, since 15 May 1948, the Independence and sovereignty has been upheld by self-determination, several critical military engagements, and the ongoing conflict with a people that have sworn to continue the armed struggle as the overall strategy to assume control over Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Still ducking.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pro-Israel groups’ campaign against Linda Sarsour targets another progressive institution — New School*

Eight days from now, the New School in New York
is scheduled to host a panel on anti-Semitism featuring two activists who support boycotting Israel, Linda Sarsour and Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace.

Because that panel will denounce the ways that anti-Semitism is used to shield Israel from criticism, the New School is under attack from pro-Israel groups; it is under pressure to shut the debate down.

The panel is important because Linda Sarsour represents the main threat to the Democratic-left consensus in support of Israel today: the real possibility that the Democratic Party might begin to reflect its progressive base, and call for sanctions on Israel. Sarsour is threatening because she has been able to gain mainstream prestige– as a leader of the Women’s March against Trump– even though she is also an unapologetic advocate for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel.

Pro-Israel groups’ campaign against Linda Sarsour targets another progressive institution — New School


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Still ducking what?



P F Tinmore said:


> Still ducking.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Still ducking what?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still ducking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

When did the Palestinians get their inherent inalienable rights?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When did the Palestinians get their inherent inalienable rights?



The inherent, inalienable rights of all people to self-determination developed over the course of the last century. The idea was codified in the UN Charter, in UNGA 1514, in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.  Probably other places as well, those just come to mind.  

I think you make a mistake with your terminology, as well, and I think you do this deliberately.  You use the term "Palestinian" as describing those people resident within certain borders at a certain period of time.  And then claim that a people's inherent, inalienable rights arise under the auspices of that definition (a nationality).  

But the rights to self-determination belong to "a peoples" and not to specific nationalities.  How else would a peoples of a different cultural or ethnic groups have the right to self-determination and political independence if they were not permitted to distinguish themselves from their existing nationality?  How can the Catalans have self-determination if they are not able to distinguish themselves from Spainards?  How can the Jordanians have self-determination if they are not able to mark themselves as different than other people within the borders of the territory held in trust under the British Mandate?

"Palestinians" then becomes a nonsense word the way you are using it to claim self-determination for them. There is no Palestinian nationality and there never has been.  Even if there HAD been such a nationality -- nationality is NOT the framework for determining a peoples with rights.  Peoples have rights even without a nation or before a nation comes into existence.

The terminology you should be using is "peoples".  The Jewish peoples and the Arab Palestinian peoples.  Those are the two groups with rights we are discussing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Does the truth in the answer lead to a conclusion that follows _(as a matter of necessity)_ the truth of the premises _(spoken or unspoken)_.

There is a concept about "Natural Rights" _(inherent rights)_ → as distinguished from State-Granted Rights_ (legislative rights)_.  The concept of "natural rights," are often referred to in the international community as human rights.  The "Natural Rights" had a universal, inalienable, and indivisible quality to them.  Natural Rights, Intrinsic Rights, Inalienable Rights or Inherent Rights all have one thing in common.  They all are applicable in a faith-based reality; and not necessarily the rooted into the tangible reality of the here and now.  Theoretically these universal, inalienable, and indivisible rights are entitlements and not benefits; totally independent and separate from the recognition by a governing authority codification _(arranged binding agreements, conventions, protocols treaties or laws according to a customary or documented system or plan)_.

From a more non-secular perspective they are called God-given rights* (faith-based)*; born into the inheritance of each individual, culture, people and nationality.  While we know that these rights  are documented into the nine (9) core international human rights instruments; we also know that they are not actually followed in the real-world. 

IN REALITY:  These Inherent Rights are not truly universal, inalienable, and indivisible through divine acquired; but, instead an invention of man.  



P F Tinmore said:


> When did the Palestinians get their inherent inalienable rights?


*(COMMENT)*

We know from reading the 1948 *Universal Declaration of Human Rights* (UDHR)_(which BTW was never entered into the force of law)_ that the recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world.

From a secular standpoint, there are no Faith-based Rights.  Not every nation or culture accepts the rights of people as law.  Sharia Law, the Halakha, European Laws, and American Laws. are all different.

Depending on the people, the inherent inalienable rights may differ.  And if they can differ, then the are not truly "inherent inalienable rights."




​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does the truth in the answer lead to a conclusion that follows _(as a matter of necessity)_ the truth of the premises _(spoken or unspoken)_.
> 
> There is a concept about "Natural Rights" _(inherent rights)_ → as distinguished from State-Granted Rights_ (legislative rights)_.  The concept of "natural rights," are often referred to in the international community as human rights.  The "Natural Rights" had a universal, inalienable, and indivisible quality to them.  Natural Rights, Intrinsic Rights, Inalienable Rights or Inherent Rights all have one thing in common.  They all are applicable in a faith-based reality; and not necessarily the rooted into the tangible reality of the here and now.  Theoretically these universal, inalienable, and indivisible rights are entitlements and not benefits; totally independent and separate from the recognition by a governing authority codification _(arranged binding agreements, conventions, protocols treaties or laws according to a customary or documented system or plan)_.
> 
> From a more non-secular perspective they are called God-given rights* (faith-based)*; born into the inheritance of each individual, culture, people and nationality.  While we know that these rights  are documented into the nine (9) core international human rights instruments; we also know that they are not actually followed in the real-world.
> 
> IN REALITY:  These Inherent Rights are not truly universal, inalienable, and indivisible through divine acquired; but, instead an invention of man.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Palestinians get their inherent inalienable rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We know from reading the 1948 *Universal Declaration of Human Rights* (UDHR)_(which BTW was never entered into the force of law)_ that the recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world.
> 
> From a secular standpoint, there are no Faith-based Rights.  Not every nation or culture accepts the rights of people as law.  Sharia Law, the Halakha, European Laws, and American Laws. are all different.
> 
> Depending on the people, the inherent inalienable rights may differ.  And if they can differ, then the are not truly "inherent inalienable rights."
> 
> View attachment 161770​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi, Stephen Orlov, two award-winning playwrights*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa PennBDS Opening Keynote*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour | Race in the U.S. | A free public course at The New School*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dana Rizek*
> 
> A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one watches these videos that you continuously post.  You should save yourself the time and effort.
Click to expand...

3000 views in two weeks. Somebody is watching this stuff.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dana Rizek*
> 
> A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one watches these videos that you continuously post.  You should save yourself the time and effort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3000 views in two weeks. Somebody is watching this stuff.
Click to expand...


I guess You have short memory...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is how they fool people in the West, 
while everyone in the middle East knows it's:

"B" is for "Balestine"


----------



## P F Tinmore

It is always Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how they fool people in the West,
> while everyone in the middle East knows it's:
> 
> "B" is for "Balestine"
Click to expand...



They can't even pronounce the name of their own country, which has no distinctive culture of its own, outside of the larger Arab world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Myth of the "Clash of Civilizations". Edward Said*

**


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dana Rizek*
> 
> A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one watches these videos that you continuously post.  You should save yourself the time and effort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 3000 views in two weeks. Somebody is watching this stuff.
Click to expand...

That's actually on the low side.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*AUBADA | SUAD BUSHNAQ (Performed by Raneem Nabulsi)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian life in Hebron.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Episode 8 BaldPolitiKs - Malaka Mohammed BDS Movement *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Open Bethlehem, Leila Sansour on the BBC for Peace In Our Name*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Where are the 300 Palestinians in the Jordan Valley supposed to go? Settler colonization in Israel/Palestine happening now.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gigi and Bella Hadid’s father speaks exclusively about life, love and family*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>


TYPICAL,keep up the good and honest work Tinnie,in these times of Zionist Bullshit and Deceit


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans*
> 
> **



_*"Jihad is our path! Revolution! Death to Israel!"*_... is the kind of Free Speech she's talking about. 

Al-Arian "under attack"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Laila Al-Arian: Free Speech Under Attack for Muslim Americans*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*"Jihad is our path! Revolution! Death to Israel!"*_... is the kind of Free Speech she's talking about.
> 
> Al-Arian "under attack"
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## rylah

Do You EVER want to discuss anything, or just post endless videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Do You EVER want to discuss anything, or just post endless videos?


Sure. What would you like to discuss?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Specifically - what point from this hour long video did You want to discuss?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically - what point from this hour long video did You want to discuss?
Click to expand...

Its up to you. Name a point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically - what point from this hour long video did You want to discuss?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its up to you. Name a point.
Click to expand...


Let me search for something in Arabic for a min...


----------



## rylah

Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon

"...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.

Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!

The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."


المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?


Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
Click to expand...


Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.

You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
Click to expand...

Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
Click to expand...


So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
But then my question becomes even more relevant:

Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
Click to expand...

I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*

In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.  

We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.

Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds





I is for Intifada. 

What do you think that says?  Sounds kinda like the Hamas Charter to me. 

She could have (obviously) chosen I is for Islam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I is for Intifada.
> 
> What do you think that says?  Sounds kinda like the Hamas Charter to me.
> 
> She could have (obviously) chosen I is for Islam.
Click to expand...

Not all Palestinians are Muslim.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds



Because it's a lie, appropriation of Jewish history, Arabs don't have a P in their Alphabet.
No Palestinian alphabet either - it's meant to delude Westerners.

The Arab society in Palestine and Israel have roughly 3 Arabic dialects, Syrian in the north, Jordanian in Jerusalem area, and a Bedouin dialect in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a lie, appropriation of Jewish history, Arabs don't have a P in their Alphabet.
> No Palestinian alphabet either - it's meant to delude Westerners.
> 
> The Arab society in Palestine and Israel have roughly 3 Arabic dialects, Syrian in the north, Jordanian in Jerusalem area, and a Bedouin dialect in Gaza.
Click to expand...

Is that the best you have?

Sad.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reconciliation is okay. Majid Faraj in Al - Sinwar soon
> 
> "...Egypt, despite the bleeding of blood in the Sinai, continued reconciliation efforts and sent a security delegation to ensure follow-up .. Which means that the conditions are still favorable to the necessary action and raise the level of performance.
> 
> Perhaps it is another opportunity for factions and forces to look more closely at the minutes of the last meeting in Cairo and to ask themselves: Was it necessary to meet for 11 hours continuously? Is this something positive? Or that the length of the meeting exhausting the nerves and cause the tension of the atmosphere and show a defect in the table of the meeting!
> 
> The term is not the length of the meeting for 11 hours every day for two days. But in organizing the schedule and minutes of the meeting so that it is effective and possible. In such meetings, the participants are looking for meeting points, not looking for points of contention."
> 
> 
> المصالحة بخير .. واللواء ماجد فرج في ضيافة السنوار قريبا
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Q.How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go?
> Q. Who are the _factions and forces_?
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
Click to expand...


So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?

And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
*
"The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern. 

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*

Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism


Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a lie, appropriation of Jewish history, Arabs don't have a P in their Alphabet.
> No Palestinian alphabet either - it's meant to delude Westerners.
> 
> The Arab society in Palestine and Israel have roughly 3 Arabic dialects, Syrian in the north, Jordanian in Jerusalem area, and a Bedouin dialect in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that the best you have?
> 
> Sad.
Click to expand...


Well, living in Israel You get to know this basic stuff about the Arab villages and towns, and their culture
Especially if You make the effort communicate in real life.

I haven't seen any real discussion, or argument to the contrary.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Internal security forces (Palestine has no military.) should be under the control of the Minister of the Interior where they would follow constitutional provisions and be under the oversight of the parliament. Abbas wants to keep the security forces under his personal command where they violate the Palestinian's constitutional rights on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
Click to expand...

Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas in Gaza has 27,000 militants, it's a functional army with all that it takes.
> 
> You think the players in the reconciliation attempt are merely Abbas and some police force units?
> 
> 
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.
Click to expand...


Yes but does Hamas represent the Tribal and Local lists, or is it just Fatah vs Hamas again?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those Abbas forces attacked the Palestinian Authority in 2007 to overturn the election of Hamas. Hamas ran those forces out of Gaza but Fatah, who lost the elections, managed to take over the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but does Hamas represent the Tribal and Local lists, or is it just Fatah vs Hamas again?
Click to expand...

I am not sure there is much relevance here. Surely every group or village deals with its own interests but that does not divorce them from national issues.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So last attempt at reconciliation ended in civil war.
> But then my question becomes even more relevant:
> 
> Q. How do You think this attempt at reconciliation will go this time?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but does Hamas represent the Tribal and Local lists, or is it just Fatah vs Hamas again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not sure there is much relevance here. Surely every group or village deals with its own interests but that does not divorce them from national issues.
Click to expand...


Of course, this is exactly my point - the tribal leaders must be represented.
As we see today, Hamas doesn't actually represent all the major clans in Gaza (look at recent rocket shootings).
All I'm saying , for any realistic unity all players should be represented. Otherwise it's Syria.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. The security force thing is a tough issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but does Hamas represent the Tribal and Local lists, or is it just Fatah vs Hamas again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not sure there is much relevance here. Surely every group or village deals with its own interests but that does not divorce them from national issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is exactly my point - the tribal leaders must be represented.
> As we see today, Hamas doesn't actually represent all the major clans in Gaza (look at recent rocket shootings).
> All I'm saying , for any realistic unity all players should be represented. Otherwise it's Syria.
Click to expand...

Palestinian activists rarely ever mention political parties and then usually in the negative. They are basically irrelevant to liberation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So how do You think the Hamas army and the PA force are going to consolidate their differences?
> 
> And again, I ask You who are the players in this consolidation attempt,
> what about these guys, are they even taken in account??!
> *
> "The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause of concern.
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Independent and tribal lists made remarkable progress in the Palestinian local elections held May 13, as they defeated factional lists such as Fatah and the Palestinian left.*
> 
> Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions."
> 
> The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows. It is Abbas, Israel, the US, and Egypt on one side while it is Hamas and the people on the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes but does Hamas represent the Tribal and Local lists, or is it just Fatah vs Hamas again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not sure there is much relevance here. Surely every group or village deals with its own interests but that does not divorce them from national issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is exactly my point - the tribal leaders must be represented.
> As we see today, Hamas doesn't actually represent all the major clans in Gaza (look at recent rocket shootings).
> All I'm saying , for any realistic unity all players should be represented. Otherwise it's Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian activists rarely ever mention political parties and then usually in the negative. They are basically irrelevant to liberation.
Click to expand...


Yes Palestinian activists, in my vision, live in this bubble of Youtube videos and accusations of Israel for all the bad in the world. 

How is that Palestinians vote for Tribal and non-political parties, while all we hear is Hamas, PA and BDS...don't You guys miss something?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds*
> 
> In this moment of nuclear proliferation, police brutality, resurgent Nazism, and stunning inequality, Zionists have managed to find the real enemy:  a children’s book.  The offending title, _P is for Palestine_, was recently published by Golbarg Bashi and Golrokh Nafisi after a long crowdfunding campaign.  Zionists have reacted as if it’s the Hamas charter.
> 
> We could just chalk up the latest iteration of Zionist anguish to a heightened sense of disquiet thanks to Israel’s steep decline in global prestige, pushed along by a burgeoning BDS movement.  It helps explain the overwrought reaction to a political document written in crayon.
> 
> Why a children’s book has Zionists losing their minds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I is for Intifada.
> 
> What do you think that says?  Sounds kinda like the Hamas Charter to me.
> 
> She could have (obviously) chosen I is for Islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not all Palestinians are Muslim.
Click to expand...



But all Palestinians believe in committing an Intifada on the Jews?


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> But all Palestinians believe in committing an Intifada on the Jews?


What percentage, in your fantasy, do believe that?


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But all Palestinians believe in committing an Intifada on the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> What percentage, in your fantasy, do believe that?
Click to expand...





You missed that point like a fly splatter on a brick wall.

Um.  What percentage are Muslim?


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But all Palestinians believe in committing an Intifada on the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> What percentage, in your fantasy, do believe that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You missed that point like a fly splatter on a brick wall.
> 
> Um.  What percentage are Muslim?
Click to expand...

NO, what percentage, in your fantasy, do believe that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fayrouz Sharqawi*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Fayrouz Sharqawi*



You already re-posted that 1 HOUR video, just last week.

Q. What exact points did You want to discuss?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Fayrouz Sharqawi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You already re-posted that 1 HOUR video, just last week.
> 
> Q. What exact points did You want to discuss?
Click to expand...

That's OK. you can not watch it now like you did not watch it then.


----------



## rylah

TODAY in


P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Fayrouz Sharqawi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You already re-posted that 1 HOUR video, just last week.
> 
> Q. What exact points did You want to discuss?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's OK. you can not watch it now like you did not watch it then.
Click to expand...


I come to Youtube to watch videos.
I come to USMB to discuss stuff with people.

What do You wanna discuss?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> TODAY in
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Fayrouz Sharqawi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You already re-posted that 1 HOUR video, just last week.
> 
> Q. What exact points did You want to discuss?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's OK. you can not watch it now like you did not watch it then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I come to Youtube to watch videos.
> I come to USMB to discuss stuff with people.
> 
> What do You wanna discuss?
Click to expand...

I'm open. Pick something.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Side-event - Give Peace a Chance: Hanine Hassan*

**


----------



## Ropey

Will become Jordan and the King will abdicate while the "Palestianians learn what it is to be a Palestinian under Jordanian security.  It comes soon.

Greater or what?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Side-event - Give Peace a Chance: Hanine Hassan*
> 
> **



Tell me Tinmore, as someone who's been posting here against Israel for 9 years...why don't Palestinian activists ever mention how their Arab brothers treat them in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Gaza?

Now about the video, she's lying  - she received a permit (in 39 days!) to enter a country, that Hamas, her official govt. *declared an enemy.*
Her presumption, that it's all based on the division between "Arab vs Jew" - simply shows HER racist bias.

It's not Israel's problem that Palestinian govt. demands a Jew free space.
Israel has Arabs in every layer of society...unlike Gaza or Ramallah.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Side-event - Give Peace a Chance: Hanine Hassan*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me Tinmore, as someone who's been posting here against Israel for 9 years...why don't Palestinian activists ever mention how their Arab brothers treat them in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Gaza?
> 
> Now about the video, she's lying  - she received a permit (in 39 days!) to enter a country, that Hamas, her official govt. *declared an enemy.*
> Her presumption, that it's all based on the division between "Arab vs Jew" - simply shows HER racist bias.
> 
> It's not Israel's problem that Palestinian govt. demands a Jew free space.
> Israel has Arabs in every layer of society...unlike Gaza or Ramallah.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Her presumption, that it's all based on the division between "Arab vs Jew" - simply shows HER racist bias.


She never said that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek Speaks at Gaza Protest to the UN*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Suheir Hammad*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rula Jebreal talks about her biographical works*

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal’istan today, and most every day.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems parading a prized possession.


----------



## Hollie

Aww, those little rogues. 


IDF accuses Palestinians of using ambulance as shield for rock throwing

*IDF accuses Palestinians of using ambulance as shield for rock throwing*

*Photographs released by military show two youths standing behind vehicle as they apparently lob stones at security forces*
By JUDAH ARI GROSS Today, 1:25 am  1


----------



## Death Angel

P F Tinmore said:


> International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?


The Arabs living in the Land of Israel are the occupiers.


----------



## fanger

Death Angel said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs living in the Land of Israel are the occupiers.
Click to expand...

And the jews are illegal immigrants


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. I suppose the Islamic terrorists will have to submit another purchase order to their UN funded welfare fraud agency to increase their welfare payments.


*Israel says it destroyed Hamas tunnel using new techniques*
*Israel says it destroyed Hamas tunnel using new techniques

JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military on Sunday said it has destroyed a tunnel built by the Hamas militant group that stretched from the Gaza Strip several hundred meters (yards) into Israeli territory, declaring a breakthrough in its war against underground threats from the Palestinian enclave.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*They took my son (Short Film) - Farah Nabulsi Oceans of Injustice*

**


----------



## Hollie

As we see with regularity, the Islamic response their bellicose demands not being met begins and ends with cheap threats. 



Trump - "America's crazy man" - is the new Balfour - PMW Bulletins

As Palestinian Media Watch reported, PA and Fatah leaders warned that Trump's speech would lead to violence and "push the region into the furnace of violence, chaos,extremism, and bloodshed." Fatah Movement Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad echoed this after Trump's speech, stating that "Trump's decision regarding Jerusalem is a type of kindling of a religious conflict and encouraging of terror and violence." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 8, 2017]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie, _et al,_

It is unreasonable to assume that this question would have to be addressed at some point.  Yes, Violence is the preferred method of conflict resolution.



Hollie said:


> As we see with regularity, the Islamic response their bellicose demands not being met begins and ends with cheap threats.
> 
> Trump - "America's crazy man" - is the new Balfour - PMW Bulletins
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch reported, PA and Fatah leaders warned that Trump's speech would lead to violence and "push the region into the furnace of violence, chaos,extremism, and bloodshed." Fatah Movement Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad echoed this after Trump's speech, stating that "Trump's decision regarding Jerusalem is a type of kindling of a religious conflict and encouraging of terror and violence." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 8, 2017]


*(COMMENT)*

What I don't really understand is the logic behind the Arab Palestinians.

•  Are they saying that America has to right to acknowledge who they do or when they do it?
•  Are they saying that America violated some law or mandate?
•  Are they saying that they control who America acknowledges and recognizes diplomatically?​
What are the Arab Palestinians saying?
I certainly do not get it...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> I certainly do not get it...


And yet, you are on here daily pretending that you do get it, like you are some kind of expert in these discussions, yet at the same time, have never responded to why you come onto this board a post propaganda for a foreign regime.

That said, I'll explain it. It is quite simple. Jerusalem has never even been part of Israel. You admitted this previously, if memory serves me.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, _et al,_
> 
> It is unreasonable to assume that this question would have to be addressed at some point.  Yes, Violence is the preferred method of conflict resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we see with regularity, the Islamic response their bellicose demands not being met begins and ends with cheap threats.
> 
> Trump - "America's crazy man" - is the new Balfour - PMW Bulletins
> 
> As Palestinian Media Watch reported, PA and Fatah leaders warned that Trump's speech would lead to violence and "push the region into the furnace of violence, chaos,extremism, and bloodshed." Fatah Movement Central Committee member Azzam Al-Ahmad echoed this after Trump's speech, stating that "Trump's decision regarding Jerusalem is a type of kindling of a religious conflict and encouraging of terror and violence." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Dec. 8, 2017]
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I don't really understand is the logic behind the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> •  Are they saying that America has to right to acknowledge who they do or when they do it?
> •  Are they saying that America violated some law or mandate?
> •  Are they saying that they control who America acknowledges and recognizes diplomatically?​
> What are the Arab Palestinians saying?
> I certainly do not get it...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I'm not sure what they are saying; relative to the rights of America.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

It does not answer the questions.

What right do the Arab Palestinians have in directing American diplomacy?

Are the Arab Palestinians attempting, on mass, to pressure American foreign policy and diplomacy?  Are they directing the US to sway on the side of the Arab Palestinian or they will go on a rampage?  That is coercion!

✪  That is the attempted intimidation or coercion American Government, and the citizens of the United States, to switch sides and support the Arab Palestinian cause, or they will take adverse action in furtherance of the Arab Palestinian political cause, social objectives and political agenda (or else).​
I cannot speak for every American, only myself, but I do not respond well to threats of violence → intimidation or coercion.  It demonstrates --- yet again --- that the Arab Palestinian preferred method of conflict resolution is violence. 

Most Respectfully.
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure what they are saying; relative to the rights of America.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does not answer the questions.
> 
> What right do the Arab Palestinians have in directing American diplomacy?
> 
> Are the Arab Palestinians attempting, on mass, to pressure American foreign policy and diplomacy?  Are they directing the US to sway on the side of the Arab Palestinian or they will go on a rampage?  That is coercion!
> 
> ✪  That is the attempted intimidation or coercion American Government, and the citizens of the United States, to switch sides and support the Arab Palestinian cause, or they will take adverse action in furtherance of the Arab Palestinian political cause, social objectives and political agenda (or else).​
> I cannot speak for every American, only myself, but I do not respond well to threats of violence → intimidation or coercion.  It demonstrates --- yet again --- that the Arab Palestinian preferred method of conflict resolution is violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully.
> R
Click to expand...

What right does the US have to claim occupied territory to be the capital of Israel? Our dotard in chief has settlers in his administration.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Oh get with the program.  Jerusalem is NOT occupied territory.  Whether you like it or not.



P F Tinmore said:


> What right does the US have to claim occupied territory to be the capital of Israel? Our dotard in chief has settlers in his administration.


*(COMMENT)*

The United States has not told anyone to acknowledge the reality.     The US did not make any claim about the Occupied Territories.  The US recognizes Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel.

Most respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Oh get with the program.  Jerusalem is NOT occupied territory.  Whether you like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What right does the US have to claim occupied territory to be the capital of Israel? Our dotard in chief has settlers in his administration.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The United States has not told anyone to acknowledge the reality.     The US did not make any claim about the Occupied Territories.  The US recognizes Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Oh get with the program. Jerusalem is NOT occupied territory. Whether you like it or not.


Oh really? You have been dancing around that question for years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Walid Khalidi's Keynote Address on Jerusalem at the UN.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*
Unpopular Abbas Targets Palestinian Critics


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramallah, December 13, 2017*—A nine-year-old Palestinian died on December 6 due to injuries sustained during an Israeli drone strike in the Gaza Strip in 2014.

Mohammad Abu Hdaf, a kindergartner at the time, sustained spine injuries from shrapnel during an Israeli drone strike in Al-Qarara, east of Khan Younis, on August 8, 2014, according to documentation collected by Defense for Children International - Palestine. After a long series of medical interventions including treatment abroad in Turkey and Israel, Mohammad died last Wednesday in the early morning.

Israeli drone strike survivor in Gaza dies from injuries at age 9


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Aww, Arab-Moslem terrorists in ski masks. 

What a hoot.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Aww, Arab-Moslem terrorists in ski masks.
> 
> What a hoot.


That is why there are no illegal settlements in Gaza. Hamas protects its people while Abbas gives away the store.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


US official spokesliar.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, Arab-Moslem terrorists in ski masks.
> 
> What a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is why there are no illegal settlements in Gaza. Hamas protects its people while Abbas gives away the store.
Click to expand...

Hamas is why Gaza'istan is little more than just another failed Islamist mini-caliphate existing on welfare fraud. 

You gee-had wannabes are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official spokesliar.
Click to expand...


It seems you're incensed that the _Great Satan_ doesn't kowtow to every outrageous demand by your Islamist terrorist heroes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official spokesliar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're incensed that the _Great Satan_ doesn't kowtow to every outrageous demand by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
Click to expand...

It is just that she lied several times. Don't blame me.

BTW, can't pass up playing the terrorist card, can you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official spokesliar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're incensed that the _Great Satan_ doesn't kowtow to every outrageous demand by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is just that she lied several times. Don't blame me.
> 
> BTW, can't pass up playing the terrorist card, can you?
Click to expand...


I can understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your tender sensibilities regarding the islamic terrorists you define as heroes but I'm not responsible for your hurt feelings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official spokesliar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're incensed that the _Great Satan_ doesn't kowtow to every outrageous demand by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is just that she lied several times. Don't blame me.
> 
> BTW, can't pass up playing the terrorist card, can you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your tender sensibilities regarding the islamic terrorists you define as heroes but I'm not responsible for your hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

It doesn't bother me. I just point out the facts.


----------



## Hollie

Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism. 

SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US official spokesliar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're incensed that the _Great Satan_ doesn't kowtow to every outrageous demand by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is just that she lied several times. Don't blame me.
> 
> BTW, can't pass up playing the terrorist card, can you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can understand you're incensed that anyone would dare challenge your tender sensibilities regarding the islamic terrorists you define as heroes but I'm not responsible for your hurt feelings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't bother me. I just point out the facts.
Click to expand...


The invented facts you can't support.

Don't let your hurt feelings prevent you from objectivty when it comes to acknowledging islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL


The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
Click to expand...


Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.
Click to expand...

Thank you for proving my point. Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for proving my point. Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.
Click to expand...


Thank you for defending antagonist islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for proving my point. Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for defending antagonist islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

Another terrorist card.

Another point for you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Riots, the mob mentality, violence,  destruction, all combine to define the long history of Islamic barbarism.
> 
> SEE the riots in PALESTINE after TRUMP recognizes JERUSALEM as the capital of ISRAEL
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for proving my point. Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for defending antagonist islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
Click to expand...


Thanks. In the meantime, here's a heapin' helpin' of that always comical and always present *Moslem Rage 2017*


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only riot is where Israel is attacking peaceful protests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, peaceful islamic terrorists rioting, burning, throwing stones and otherwise acting like islamic retrogrades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for proving my point. Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for defending antagonist islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks. In the meantime, here's a heapin' helpin' of that always comical and always present *Moslem Rage 2017*
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Yet another example of the disease called “Pal’istanian Mentality”. The cruel and ruthless exploitation of (female) children. 

What a shame that you Arabs-Moslems still view a 7th century Arab warlord as a model for humanity. 
*
Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred
*
Janna Jihad — the innocent face of the Tamimi clan’s support for terror and Jew-hatred

Bassem Tamimi’s proud claim that Janna Jihad is a product of “the Nabi Saleh school to create the generation of freedom fighter to liberat Palestine” is in line with many of his other statements about the “duty” of children to “resist;” it also is just another of many examples that show the Tamimis’ cynical exploitation of their children for political purposes.
*
*


----------



## fanger

Just imagine if jews had resisted the Nazi's


----------



## Roudy

fanger said:


> Just imagine if jews had resisted the Nazi's


They are, they're resisting IslamoNazis like you, and doing quite well.  Thank you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Europe biggest Palestine event goes ahead despite fears of ban*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^



^^^^^^^^^^ 

Gaza is not in Chicago.


----------



## Hollie

Looking for those sweet female virgins?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Looking for those sweet female virgins?


It is their country too. They can resist occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for those sweet female virgins?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is their country too. They can resist occupation.
Click to expand...


Are you available in a management role for female splodey’dopes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for those sweet female virgins?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is their country too. They can resist occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you available in a management role for female splodey’dopes?
Click to expand...

You clutter the board with too many meaningless posts.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for those sweet female virgins?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is their country too. They can resist occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you available in a management role for female splodey’dopes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You clutter the board with too many meaningless posts.
Click to expand...

You call yourself "You"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I heart islamic terrorists by the IDF and Raytheon.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*


----------



## Hollie

Abbas wants dead islamics to parade around.


----------



## Hollie

In the name of *Mahmoud the Magnificient

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Abbas wants dead islamics to parade around.


2/3 of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> In the name of *Mahmoud the Magnificient
> 
> *


Fatah lost the last election. They are no longer legitimately in power.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the name of *Mahmoud the Magnificient
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah lost the last election. They are no longer legitimately in power.
Click to expand...


Of course you are correct, in the alternate reality you dwell in.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas wants dead islamics to parade around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2/3 of Palestinians want Abbas to resign.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter what the "Pal'istanians" want. _Mahmoud the Conquerer _has his share of the UNRWA welfare fraud to exploit.

Arabs-Moslems need their dictators.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salsabeel Abdelhamid*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Natural Beauty of Occupied Palestine!*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamist occupied Pal’Istan


----------



## Hollie

Islamist beggars come begging.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian artist Malak Mattar breaks down barriers with art*

**


----------



## Hollie

Hitler Youth _part deux

_


----------



## fanger

*Published on Jul 31, 2015*


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> *Published on Jul 31, 2015*


*2016 perhaps?

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabuls*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
Click to expand...

The asshole was standing in her driveway.

Why?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...


Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.
Click to expand...

I didn't see any riot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see any riot.
Click to expand...


You didn't look hard enough.  

_The army said Tamimi had participated in a “violent riot” in which 200 Palestinians threw stones at soldiers.

According to the IDF, some of the stones were thrown from Tamimi’s home with the family’s consent, and soldiers removed “all the rioters from the house,” guarding it to prevent anyone else from entering.  _Source.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> According to the IDF,


So? Do you really believe anything they say any more?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see any riot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't look hard enough.
> 
> _The army said Tamimi had participated in a “violent riot” in which 200 Palestinians threw stones at soldiers.
> 
> According to the IDF, some of the stones were thrown from Tamimi’s home with the family’s consent, and soldiers removed “all the rioters from the house,” guarding it to prevent anyone else from entering.  _Source.
Click to expand...

So why was the IDF hanging around their home? Was there a riot before they got there?


----------



## fanger

Naftali Bennett said that even though Israel knew there would be some “friction, I recommend to Israeli Arabs, and to those Arabs who are rioting, not to test our patience.”
Trump’s Jerusalem Announcement Sparked Deadly Violence — From Israel


----------



## Linkiloo

fanger said:


> Naftali Bennett said that even though Israel knew there would be some “friction, I recommend to Israeli Arabs, and to those Arabs who are rioting, not to test our patience.”
> Trump’s Jerusalem Announcement Sparked Deadly Violence — From Israel


Makes sense. We have all had enough of angry and misunderstood Arabs, everywhere in the world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shirley Temper got arrested after assaulting an LEO and preventing him from doing his duties.  Seems reasonable.  No child should be assaulting LEOs.
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see any riot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't look hard enough.
> 
> _The army said Tamimi had participated in a “violent riot” in which 200 Palestinians threw stones at soldiers.
> 
> According to the IDF, some of the stones were thrown from Tamimi’s home with the family’s consent, and soldiers removed “all the rioters from the house,” guarding it to prevent anyone else from entering.  _Source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why was the IDF hanging around their home? Was there a riot before they got there?
Click to expand...

The mere existence of Jews is enough to send you Arabs-Moslems into screeching hissy fits.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole was standing in her driveway.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, surely you must know the answer to that.  They were responding to a riot originating at her house.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see any riot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't look hard enough.
> 
> _The army said Tamimi had participated in a “violent riot” in which 200 Palestinians threw stones at soldiers.
> 
> According to the IDF, some of the stones were thrown from Tamimi’s home with the family’s consent, and soldiers removed “all the rioters from the house,” guarding it to prevent anyone else from entering.  _Source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why was the IDF hanging around their home? Was there a riot before they got there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The mere existence of Jews is enough to send you Arabs-Moslems into screeching hissy fits.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There is truly a sickness that afflicts the arab-Moslem Death Cult


*PA promotes suicide bombings - PMW Bulletins

PA promotes suicide bombings

PA TV music video: *

*"Al-Aqsa has called... For its sake, life is insignificant... God, grant us Martyrdom” 
*
*“A million grooms and brides... will have written the marriage contract in blood”*


----------



## Hollie

Think _Peace Partners™️_

Fatah calls for violence: "Strap on your weapon" - PMW Bulletins


PMW Bulletins
Fatah calls for violence: "Strap on your weapon"
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Dec. 17, 2017 
*Fatah calls for violence:
 "Strap on your weapon"*


*





The picture above of a hand holding an automatic weapon is part of Abbas' Fatah Movement's answer to US President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The poster calls for Palestinians to use violence:

Posted text: "Strap on your weapon over your wound, and tomorrow you will awaken to a morning of freedom #Rage_for_Jerusalem #Rage_for_Al-Aqsa_Mosque #Jerusalem_our_capital #Jerusalem_the_capital_of_Palestine
#HandsOffAlQuds"

Text on the image repeats the call to "strap on your weapon" 
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Dec. 14, 2017
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How to be a Palestinian supermom*

**


----------



## Hollie

How to be an Death Cult Supermom.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gigi Hadid: Proceeds From My Shoe Line Will Go To Building Schools*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Profile of Feeza Shrain - Saving Lives in Gaza | Global 3000*

**


----------



## Hollie

*PMW report sparks Israeli PM's spokesman - Fatah social media confrontation - PMW Bulletins

PMW report sparks Israeli PM's spokesman - 
Fatah social media confrontation*



*Israeli Prime Minister's spokesman tweeted PMW's report that the PA is promoting suicide bombings*

*Fatah responded on Facebook: "Netanyahu's spokesman attacks PA TV"*

*Fatah posted PMW's video of PA TV's music video promoting suicide bombings*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians prayerfully oppose Israel's wall*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pastor Jack Sara speaks about Palestinian Christians*

**


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian boy repeats libel: “The Jews put poison in [Arafat’s] food, and then he died;” PA TV host agrees
Official Palestinian Authority TV - Nov. 17, 2017


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Hollie said:


> Palestinian boy repeats libel: “The Jews put poison in [Arafat’s] food, and then he died;” PA TV host agrees
> Official Palestinian Authority TV - Nov. 17, 2017




The entire Palestinian "culture" is sick, and that sickness is its defining characteristic. 

When Arabs collaborated with the Nazis in the 30's and 40s,  all the various Nazi themes regarding Jews intermingled with Islamic ones, and out of it was born a brand new people who had not existed as a people before -- the so-called Palestinians.

 When ethnic hatred provides the very basis of an identity, children such as these are the result.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*The promise of women in Shame Sacks*


*LINDA SARSOUR: A “GOOD MUSLIM” CAN’T COMMIT SEXUAL ASSAULT*
*Sharia trumps women’s rights again for this fake feminist*

*Linda Sarsour: A “Good Muslim” Can’t Commit Sexual Assault*

The facts at hand presumably speak for themselves, but a trifle more vulgarly, I suspect, than facts even usually do. Asmi Fathelbab, a former employee of the Arab American Association in New York when feminist heroine Linda Sarsour was its executive director, has accused Sarsourof dismissing her claims of sexual assault and harassment, and following through on threats to destroy Fathelbab’s attempts to get a job if she didn’t retract the charges.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*"Santa Trump"  gave Muslim and Christian sites to Israel in PA daily cartoon - PMW Bulletins

Santa Trump" 
gave Muslim and Christian sites to Israel
in PA daily cartoon*




;
*Fatah cartoon shows Jesus 
kicking Trump out of Jerusalem*

*






In other news, the PA Islamic terrorist franchise was offered a cartoon by staff writer Muhammud Muhammud that depicted the inventor of Islamism, Muhammud (swish), being hit in the ass by the door to Pal’istan on his way out. Another staff writer named Muhammud was later charged with assault and battery on the other staff writer Muhammud Muhammud. The other Muhammud, who assaulted Muhammud Muhammud was awarded UNRWA welfare overtime and a welfare salary increase by UNRWA representative Muhammud . Although, I could be wrong about the above. *


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



I liked the pictures, nevermind the politics portrayed, very good touch.

This however might be more practical:

*Hamas: National Consensus Government has taken over in Gaza*
*




*
Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah told the cabinet, which had convened for the first time in three years in Gaza City on Tuesday, that his government is going to assume full responsibility of all sectors of life in Gaza “in full cooperation and partnership with all the Palestinian factions and forces.”

Al-Qanou told Ma’an that that the Hamas movement “will always cooperate” with the consensus government, and that the movement “is ready and willing to provide facilitations to end unsolved issues.”

Meanwhile, official PA-owned Wafa news agency reported that President Mahmoud Abbas said on Thursday that national unity will continue to be a primary goal for the Palestinian leadership, and that *“without it there will not be a Palestinian state.”*

Abbas went on to discuss next week’s meetings between the movements in Cairo, saying that the meetings will “lay the foundations and go into the specific details for the government takeover of power and the next steps. This requires effort, hard work and good intentions, and we hope that everyone will have these intentions.”

Q.This is not to slander Palestinians, I want to know Your opinion about the position of the players. I can understand how Hamas got allied with Iran, however  where do You think the PA leans in this relationship?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists - men in ski masks


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girls and guys do the Dabkeh dance in Beit Jalah, celebrating Christmas Eve.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*This Christmas, Santa Is Barred From Gaza for 'Security Reasons' *

Some of the Mideast's most embattled Christians have little to celebrate. After 11 years of blockade, only 1000 Christians are left in Gaza, and the call to join relatives in exile grows stronger every year

In the old days, Christmas was celebrated with remarkable gusto in the city center, Al-Jundi Al-Majhool. A huge decorate and lit-up tree, parades by the Greek Orthodox Scouts, numerous young people dressed as Santa, some of whom visited patients in the hospitals to present them with bouquets of flowers. The mayor of Gaza City and other prominent officials were always present, and the atmosphere was truly festive.
read more: This Christmas, Santa is barred from Gaza for 'security reasons'


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *This Christmas, Santa Is Barred From Gaza for 'Security Reasons' *
> 
> Some of the Mideast's most embattled Christians have little to celebrate. After 11 years of blockade, only 1000 Christians are left in Gaza, and the call to join relatives in exile grows stronger every year
> 
> In the old days, Christmas was celebrated with remarkable gusto in the city center, Al-Jundi Al-Majhool. A huge decorate and lit-up tree, parades by the Greek Orthodox Scouts, numerous young people dressed as Santa, some of whom visited patients in the hospitals to present them with bouquets of flowers. The mayor of Gaza City and other prominent officials were always present, and the atmosphere was truly festive.
> read more: This Christmas, Santa is barred from Gaza for 'security reasons'



As it is across the Islamist Middle East, minority religions will eventually be  all but purged by _Peaceful Inner Strugglers_™️


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *This Christmas, Santa Is Barred From Gaza for 'Security Reasons' *
> 
> Some of the Mideast's most embattled Christians have little to celebrate. After 11 years of blockade, only 1000 Christians are left in Gaza, and the call to join relatives in exile grows stronger every year
> 
> In the old days, Christmas was celebrated with remarkable gusto in the city center, Al-Jundi Al-Majhool. A huge decorate and lit-up tree, parades by the Greek Orthodox Scouts, numerous young people dressed as Santa, some of whom visited patients in the hospitals to present them with bouquets of flowers. The mayor of Gaza City and other prominent officials were always present, and the atmosphere was truly festive.
> read more: This Christmas, Santa is barred from Gaza for 'security reasons'





P F Tinmore said:


>



Yet You keep filling the last pages with this ^^^^


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


The quote in the last frame comes from a Hebrew song, about having no other country to rely on.

The Tamimis are an Arabian tribe, one of the largest ones and they control a vast territory outside of Palestine/Israel. Including the emirate of Qatar* which is their country wholly.*

Now try to think for a moment... this family is in the govt. (PA) that demands no Jews in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*

The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all

I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde


----------



## Hollie

Ahed Tamimi: Serial provocateur since childhood in the village of Nabi Saleh - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center

The clan runs a news agency called Tamimi Press, which focuses on documenting the weekly riots in Nabi Saleh. Ahed Tamimi (like other clan members) has had a starring role as a Palestinian “propaganda child” (and later, as a young woman) symbolizing the clashes against IDF soldiers.


----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> Ahed Tamimi: Serial provocateur since childhood in


Interesting presentation, thanks. Wait, let's think about what you are claiming and see if again it traces back to occupation.

Oh, it does, sorry.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde



Proof?
Let me remind You, we're talking about the Arafat gang.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi: Serial provocateur since childhood in
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting presentation, thanks. Wait, let's think about what you are claiming and see if again it traces back to occupation.
> 
> Oh, it does, sorry.
Click to expand...


Now, Louie. You’re suffering from an atrocious lack of reading comprehension skills. Might I suggest you remain silent on issues you don’t understand?


----------



## rylah

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi: Serial provocateur since childhood in
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting presentation, thanks. Wait, let's think about what you are claiming and see if again it traces back to occupation.
> 
> Oh, it does, sorry.
Click to expand...

Oh... it doesn't, when there's an investigation we'll see, because usually they film everything that might be useful. If we'll get to see what happened prior the incident.

Tamimis are occupying the Levant, they have a whole Kingdom in Arabia,
and they're royals in Saudi Arabia, using Your logic - *Nabi Saleh is an Arab colony.*


----------



## abi

P F Tinmore said:


> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde


She is a true role model. Fearless!

Israel better lock her up forever because the last thing the zionist regime needs is the brave and beautiful Ahed Tamini being the face of Palestinian struggle.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde
> 
> 
> 
> She is a true role model. Fearless!
> 
> Israel better lock her up forever because the last thing the zionist regime needs is the brave and beautiful Ahed Tamini being the face of Palestinian struggle.
Click to expand...


It’s more than just a little creepy how you keyboard gee-had wannabes parade around a victim of Islamist child abuse. 

Why isn’t she in her room, in her Islamist Fem-Tent?


----------



## rylah

abi said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde
> 
> 
> 
> She is a true role model. Fearless!
> 
> Israel better lock her up forever because the last thing the zionist regime needs is the brave and beautiful Ahed Tamini being the face of Palestinian struggle.
Click to expand...


I don't see any difference:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde
> 
> 
> 
> She is a true role model. Fearless!
> 
> Israel better lock her up forever because the last thing the zionist regime needs is the brave and beautiful Ahed Tamini being the face of Palestinian struggle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s more than just a little creepy how you keyboard gee-had wannabes parade around a victim of Islamist child abuse.
> 
> Why isn’t she in her room, in her Islamist Fem-Tent?
Click to expand...

Palestinians do not swing that way.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians Aren’t Legally Blonde*
> 
> The Tamimi family jokes about everything, but had the bullet hit just a half-millimeter to the side, they wouldn’t have had a son at all
> 
> I didn’t hear any jokes at the hospital where Mohammed Tamimi has been for over a week. On Friday, December 15, he was shot in the face with a rubber-coated metal bullet, at very close range, by an unnamed soldier. This doesn’t upset the Israelis.
> read more: In Nabi Saleh, the Palestinians aren’t legally blonde
> 
> 
> 
> She is a true role model. Fearless!
> 
> Israel better lock her up forever because the last thing the zionist regime needs is the brave and beautiful Ahed Tamini being the face of Palestinian struggle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s more than just a little creepy how you keyboard gee-had wannabes parade around a victim of Islamist child abuse.
> 
> Why isn’t she in her room, in her Islamist Fem-Tent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians do not swing that way.
Click to expand...


You are obviously not the head spokesbeard in charge of Arabs-Moslems posing as Pal’istanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conference: the role of women in the palestinian popular struggle. Leila Khaled, Sahar Francis and Ahed Tamimi.*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Life in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rubber Bullet.. Cause the child's injury Mohamed Tamimi, severely injured, and bash his skull.


----------



## Hollie

The Tamimi masterclass on media manipulation - Blogs - Jerusalem Post

It is thus hardly surprising that by now, the Tamimis apparently feel free to tell the media any story that suits their purpose. Their complete disregard for facts and the ease with which they fabricate a story to bolster their image as righteous defenders of a noble cause was on full display in the wake of the widely covered recent attempt of an IDF soldier to arrest Bassem Tamimi’s 12-year-old son Mohammad (also known as Abu Yazan) for stone-throwing. As the viral video-clip showed, the fully armed soldier was beaten and bitten by a group consisting mostly of women and girls – prominently including Bassem Tamimi’s daughter Ahed – and the soldier ultimately released the boy from his hold and retreated.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another Pallywierd disaster. 

With the Islamic terrorists in Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan being ignored for calls to *Moslem Ragefest 2017, *I suppose they thought another staged event starring Shirley Temper would help kick start:

_*Intifada - The New Beginning.*_ 

What a silly waste of time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land*

The Bedouin village of Al Araqib in the southern Negev has been demolished for well over 100 times. Its ethnic cleansing follows a similar pattern and logic to that of other Bedouin villages such as Umm Al Hiran, which saw violent ethnic cleansing operations this year, also involving extrajudicial execution of an Israeli Bedouin citizen.

Now the state reaches new heights of Kafkaesque madness: Sheikh Saih Abu Madiam, 68, is sentenced to 10 months in prison, 5 additional months of conditional imprisonment, as well as a fine of 36,000 Shekels (over $10,000), as Haaretz reported (Hebrew).  

The offense: Abu Madiam has supposedly trespassed state land – which he claims is his own. 

They are unrecognized, because the state expropriated the lands, and refused to recognize the dwelling places of people who have been there long before the state was established. 

Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Rubber Bullet.. Cause the child's injury Mohamed Tamimi, severely injured, and bash his skull.


Shouldn't be hanging out near violent thugs(Palestinians), his parents need to watch him.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> Life in Palestine.



OUTGSTANDING POST!  Ladies & gentlemen, please hear the words from this well educated, highly polished, classy lady journalist in support of the noble life loving, peace loving Palestinians.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land*
> 
> The Bedouin village of Al Araqib in the southern Negev has been demolished for well over 100 times. Its ethnic cleansing follows a similar pattern and logic to that of other Bedouin villages such as Umm Al Hiran, which saw violent ethnic cleansing operations this year, also involving extrajudicial execution of an Israeli Bedouin citizen.
> 
> Now the state reaches new heights of Kafkaesque madness: Sheikh Saih Abu Madiam, 68, is sentenced to 10 months in prison, 5 additional months of conditional imprisonment, as well as a fine of 36,000 Shekels (over $10,000), as Haaretz reported (Hebrew).
> 
> The offense: Abu Madiam has supposedly trespassed state land – which he claims is his own.
> 
> They are unrecognized, because the state expropriated the lands, and refused to recognize the dwelling places of people who have been there long before the state was established.
> 
> Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land


At least he has somewhere to stay.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security?*

From the outset, the Palestinian Authority (PA) security establishment has failed to protect Palestinians from the main source of their insecurity: The Israeli military occupation. Nor has it empowered Palestinians to resist that occupation. Instead, the PA has contributed to a situation in which the Palestinian struggle for freedom has itself been criminalized. Rather than recognize resistance as a natural response to institutionalized oppression, the PA, in tandem with Israel and the international community, characterizes resistance as “insurgency” or “instability.” Such rhetoric, which favors Israeli security at the expense of Palestinians, echoes discourse surrounding the “war on terror” and criminalizes all forms of resistance. 1

This dynamic can be traced back to the 1993 Oslo Accords but it has been galvanized over the last decade through the PA’s evolution as a donor-driven state that espouses neoliberal policies. The donor-driven reform of the security sector has been the lynchpin of the PA’s post-2007 state building project. The enhanced effectiveness of the PA’s security forces as a result of massive donor investment has in turn created additional ways of protecting the Israeli occupier, thus creating spaces that are “securitized” within which the occupier can move freely in the execution of its colonial project. 

The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security? - Al-Shabaka


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat: Israel’s Extrajudicial Assassinations*

Israel has used extrajudicial assassinations – the taking of someone’s life without a trial to determine guilt – for decades.
3 The government first took public responsibility for these assassinations during the Al-Aqsa Intifada, specifically in November 2000, when it termed them “targeted killings” and created a legal justification for their use against Palestinians. 4

Israel argued that it is engaged in an “armed conflict short of war” with Palestinians in order to define the conflict as one against “terrorists.” This move has permitted Israel to use military force, defined by law, without affording Palestinians the status of combatants or soldiers. Instead, Palestinian use of force is regarded as terroristic regardless of whether it targets civilians or military installations; in effect, all Palestinian use of force is considered illegitimate and illegal.

Israel thus created a legal framework whereby Palestinians do not have the right to use force but Israelis have the right to kill them even when they are posing no threat and without due process. This framework aims to incapacitate any kind of resistance from Palestinians and expand Israel’s right to use force. It is within this context that Israel also changed the terminology of the violence: “assassination” became “targeted killing.”

This practice is illegal, as the arbitrary taking of a life denies the suspect the right to a fair trial as guaranteed by Article 14 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. International law also restricts the use of intentional lethal force “during law enforcement operations to situations necessary to protect life” – that is, police can only shoot to kill when it is clear that the suspect is going to kill someone and there is no other means to detain them. In regard to an occupation, the law is even clearer. Because an occupying power is no longer at war, its force is limited to law enforcement authority. This means that the occupying power cannot use lethal force as a measure of first resort.

Threats to Human Rights Defenders: How Far Will Israel Go? - Al-Shabaka


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land*
> 
> The Bedouin village of Al Araqib in the southern Negev has been demolished for well over 100 times. Its ethnic cleansing follows a similar pattern and logic to that of other Bedouin villages such as Umm Al Hiran, which saw violent ethnic cleansing operations this year, also involving extrajudicial execution of an Israeli Bedouin citizen.
> 
> Now the state reaches new heights of Kafkaesque madness: Sheikh Saih Abu Madiam, 68, is sentenced to 10 months in prison, 5 additional months of conditional imprisonment, as well as a fine of 36,000 Shekels (over $10,000), as Haaretz reported (Hebrew).
> 
> The offense: Abu Madiam has supposedly trespassed state land – which he claims is his own.
> 
> They are unrecognized, because the state expropriated the lands, and refused to recognize the dwelling places of people who have been there long before the state was established.
> 
> Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land



This is entirely an Israeli domestic concern and not part of the Arab/Israeli conflict.  

The land in question does not in any way appear to be "his own".  The land is not, and never has been privately owned, but is and was owned by the State.  

The question, then, is whether or not the families in question had an entitlement to cultivate the land.  The courts ruled that they did not and further that they had an obligation to register the land and chose not to.  

The main conflict, as I understand it, rests on whether the land was _mawat_ (uncultivated) or _miri _(cultivated and leased from the sovereign).  The court accepted documented proof that the land was not cultivated and therefore established that whether the land was _mawat_ or _miri_ was immaterial since neither imparts private ownership and the lack of cultivation reverts the land to its sovereign.  

The Bedouin families appear to be squatters attempting to lay legal claim to land that they have no right to.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security?*
> 
> From the outset, the Palestinian Authority (PA) security establishment has failed to protect Palestinians from the main source of their insecurity: The Israeli military occupation. Nor has it empowered Palestinians to resist that occupation. Instead, the PA has contributed to a situation in which the Palestinian struggle for freedom has itself been criminalized. Rather than recognize resistance as a natural response to institutionalized oppression, the PA, in tandem with Israel and the international community, characterizes resistance as “insurgency” or “instability.” Such rhetoric, which favors Israeli security at the expense of Palestinians, echoes discourse surrounding the “war on terror” and criminalizes all forms of resistance. 1
> 
> This dynamic can be traced back to the 1993 Oslo Accords but it has been galvanized over the last decade through the PA’s evolution as a donor-driven state that espouses neoliberal policies. The donor-driven reform of the security sector has been the lynchpin of the PA’s post-2007 state building project. The enhanced effectiveness of the PA’s security forces as a result of massive donor investment has in turn created additional ways of protecting the Israeli occupier, thus creating spaces that are “securitized” within which the occupier can move freely in the execution of its colonial project.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security? - Al-Shabaka



It's not at all surprising that the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" would place blame on others for their failures and ineptitudes. Even with a dedicated, UN welfare agency assigned to their exclusive use, abuse and theft, they still can't build a functioning society.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security?*
> 
> From the outset, the Palestinian Authority (PA) security establishment has failed to protect Palestinians from the main source of their insecurity: The Israeli military occupation. Nor has it empowered Palestinians to resist that occupation. Instead, the PA has contributed to a situation in which the Palestinian struggle for freedom has itself been criminalized. Rather than recognize resistance as a natural response to institutionalized oppression, the PA, in tandem with Israel and the international community, characterizes resistance as “insurgency” or “instability.” Such rhetoric, which favors Israeli security at the expense of Palestinians, echoes discourse surrounding the “war on terror” and criminalizes all forms of resistance. 1
> 
> This dynamic can be traced back to the 1993 Oslo Accords but it has been galvanized over the last decade through the PA’s evolution as a donor-driven state that espouses neoliberal policies. The donor-driven reform of the security sector has been the lynchpin of the PA’s post-2007 state building project. The enhanced effectiveness of the PA’s security forces as a result of massive donor investment has in turn created additional ways of protecting the Israeli occupier, thus creating spaces that are “securitized” within which the occupier can move freely in the execution of its colonial project.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security? - Al-Shabaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not at all surprising that the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" would place blame on others for their failures and ineptitudes. Even with a dedicated, UN welfare agency assigned to their exclusive use, abuse and theft, they still can't build a functioning society.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land*
> 
> The Bedouin village of Al Araqib in the southern Negev has been demolished for well over 100 times. Its ethnic cleansing follows a similar pattern and logic to that of other Bedouin villages such as Umm Al Hiran, which saw violent ethnic cleansing operations this year, also involving extrajudicial execution of an Israeli Bedouin citizen.
> 
> Now the state reaches new heights of Kafkaesque madness: Sheikh Saih Abu Madiam, 68, is sentenced to 10 months in prison, 5 additional months of conditional imprisonment, as well as a fine of 36,000 Shekels (over $10,000), as Haaretz reported (Hebrew).
> 
> The offense: Abu Madiam has supposedly trespassed state land – which he claims is his own.
> 
> They are unrecognized, because the state expropriated the lands, and refused to recognize the dwelling places of people who have been there long before the state was established.
> 
> Israeli court sentences 68-year-old Bedouin citizen to 10 months in prison – for trespassing his own land
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is entirely an Israeli domestic concern and not part of the Arab/Israeli conflict.
> 
> The land in question does not in any way appear to be "his own".  The land is not, and never has been privately owned, but is and was owned by the State.
> 
> The question, then, is whether or not the families in question had an entitlement to cultivate the land.  The courts ruled that they did not and further that they had an obligation to register the land and chose not to.
> 
> The main conflict, as I understand it, rests on whether the land was _mawat_ (uncultivated) or _miri _(cultivated and leased from the sovereign).  The court accepted documented proof that the land was not cultivated and therefore established that whether the land was _mawat_ or _miri_ was immaterial since neither imparts private ownership and the lack of cultivation reverts the land to its sovereign.
> 
> The Bedouin families appear to be squatters attempting to lay legal claim to land that they have no right to.
Click to expand...

If the land was state land under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security?*
> 
> From the outset, the Palestinian Authority (PA) security establishment has failed to protect Palestinians from the main source of their insecurity: The Israeli military occupation. Nor has it empowered Palestinians to resist that occupation. Instead, the PA has contributed to a situation in which the Palestinian struggle for freedom has itself been criminalized. Rather than recognize resistance as a natural response to institutionalized oppression, the PA, in tandem with Israel and the international community, characterizes resistance as “insurgency” or “instability.” Such rhetoric, which favors Israeli security at the expense of Palestinians, echoes discourse surrounding the “war on terror” and criminalizes all forms of resistance. 1
> 
> This dynamic can be traced back to the 1993 Oslo Accords but it has been galvanized over the last decade through the PA’s evolution as a donor-driven state that espouses neoliberal policies. The donor-driven reform of the security sector has been the lynchpin of the PA’s post-2007 state building project. The enhanced effectiveness of the PA’s security forces as a result of massive donor investment has in turn created additional ways of protecting the Israeli occupier, thus creating spaces that are “securitized” within which the occupier can move freely in the execution of its colonial project.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security? - Al-Shabaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not at all surprising that the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" would place blame on others for their failures and ineptitudes. Even with a dedicated, UN welfare agency assigned to their exclusive use, abuse and theft, they still can't build a functioning society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...

You are definitely proof that we need such a button.


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security?*
> 
> From the outset, the Palestinian Authority (PA) security establishment has failed to protect Palestinians from the main source of their insecurity: The Israeli military occupation. Nor has it empowered Palestinians to resist that occupation. Instead, the PA has contributed to a situation in which the Palestinian struggle for freedom has itself been criminalized. Rather than recognize resistance as a natural response to institutionalized oppression, the PA, in tandem with Israel and the international community, characterizes resistance as “insurgency” or “instability.” Such rhetoric, which favors Israeli security at the expense of Palestinians, echoes discourse surrounding the “war on terror” and criminalizes all forms of resistance. 1
> 
> This dynamic can be traced back to the 1993 Oslo Accords but it has been galvanized over the last decade through the PA’s evolution as a donor-driven state that espouses neoliberal policies. The donor-driven reform of the security sector has been the lynchpin of the PA’s post-2007 state building project. The enhanced effectiveness of the PA’s security forces as a result of massive donor investment has in turn created additional ways of protecting the Israeli occupier, thus creating spaces that are “securitized” within which the occupier can move freely in the execution of its colonial project.
> 
> The Palestinian Authority Security Forces: Whose Security? - Al-Shabaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not at all surprising that the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" would place blame on others for their failures and ineptitudes. Even with a dedicated, UN welfare agency assigned to their exclusive use, abuse and theft, they still can't build a functioning society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...

It's called kicking attacking Arab ass.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?



Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?  

And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.


----------



## Indeependent

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
Click to expand...

You know that whatever facts you introduce will be revised by P F Retard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
Click to expand...

Picayune, the territory went to Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Well, you tell me what you want to discuss.  Is it the plight of the Bedouin and the urbanization of their culture?  Or whether their plight and the urbanization of their culture come from Arab Palestinians instead of Jews?

See, if it is the former -- its a GREAT topic.  Just doesn't have anything to do with the Arab/Israeli conflict.  

If its the latter, this is just another example of the Palestinian mentality which believes that Jews and Israel should be demonized at every opportunity even if it has f$ all to do with the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me what you want to discuss.  Is it the plight of the Bedouin and the urbanization of their culture?  Or whether their plight and the urbanization of their culture come from Arab Palestinians instead of Jews?
> 
> See, if it is the former -- its a GREAT topic.  Just doesn't have anything to do with the Arab/Israeli conflict.
> 
> If its the latter, this is just another example of the Palestinian mentality which believes that Jews and Israel should be demonized at every opportunity even if it has f$ all to do with the conflict.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> See, if it is the former -- its a GREAT topic. Just doesn't have anything to do with the Arab/Israeli conflict.


It does. Israel does the same thing in Israel and the West Bank. It is part of their settler colonial project.


----------



## theliq

Indeependent said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know that whatever facts you introduce will be revised by P F Retard.
Click to expand...

Your speaking towards Tinnie is a disgrace quite frankly,his true words are always rejected by you inparticular and your ilk....You are a nobody, something you should remind yourself of before posting a word.....You cannot see a Man of Real Quality and Empathy,because you are shallow and shameful,you are of course but a zionist


----------



## theliq

theliq said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know that whatever facts you introduce will be revised by P F Retard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your speaking towards Tinnie is a disgrace quite frankly,his true words are always rejected by you inparticular and your ilk....You are a nobody, something you should remind yourself before posting a word.....You cannot see a Man of Real Quality and Empathy,because you are shallow and shameful,you are but a zionist
Click to expand...

Viva Tinnie,Viva the Palestinian Nation and People


----------



## theliq

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the land was state lend under ottoman ownership, that land was ceded to the state of Palestine. So, how does Israel claim that as Israeli state land. Where is the treaty ceding that land to Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  So, your concern over the Bedouin village is not that it has been torn down 120 times, but that it should be the Arab Palestinians tearing it down and not the Israelis?
> 
> And, of course, the territory was renounced, not ceded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me what you want to discuss.  Is it the plight of the Bedouin and the urbanization of their culture?  Or whether their plight and the urbanization of their culture come from Arab Palestinians instead of Jews?
> 
> See, if it is the former -- its a GREAT topic.  Just doesn't have anything to do with the Arab/Israeli conflict.
> 
> If its the latter, this is just another example of the Palestinian mentality which believes that Jews and Israel should be demonized at every opportunity even if it has f$ all to do with the conflict.
Click to expand...

only you Zionist trash say the last sentence in your post,because of your Guilt and Guiltiness of course


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Fatah`s guide to rock throwing for kids - PMW Bulletins


Fatah's guide to rock throwing for kids*

*PMW calls on UNICEF to condemn Fatah's recruitment of children to commit terror*








Fatah posted on its Twitter account the above photo of a young boy hurling rocks with a slingshot together with an explanation to Palestinians how best to throw rocks:

Posted text:
"In order to hit the target, there are three conditions:
1. Stand stably and balance your legs, arms, and body well
2. Focus your gaze on the center of the target, and do not look at anything else
3. Keep the desired balance between your body and your weapon; you are the one that controls the weapon, and not the other way around
If you did not understand this, read it again, and if you still have not understood, here is an example picture for you"
[Official Fatah Twitter account, Dec. 16, 2017


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Fatah`s guide to rock throwing for kids - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> Fatah's guide to rock throwing for kids*
> 
> *PMW calls on UNICEF to condemn Fatah's recruitment of children to commit terror*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah posted on its Twitter account the above photo of a young boy hurling rocks with a slingshot together with an explanation to Palestinians how best to throw rocks:
> 
> Posted text:
> "In order to hit the target, there are three conditions:
> 1. Stand stably and balance your legs, arms, and body well
> 2. Focus your gaze on the center of the target, and do not look at anything else
> 3. Keep the desired balance between your body and your weapon; you are the one that controls the weapon, and not the other way around
> If you did not understand this, read it again, and if you still have not understood, here is an example picture for you"
> [Official Fatah Twitter account, Dec. 16, 2017


Time honored tool against oppression.


----------



## Hollie

Time honored tool against Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Time honored tool against Islamic terrorists


WOW, look at what those assholes can *MOOCH.*

*Israel, the mooch capital of the world.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Time honored tool against Islamic terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, look at what those assholes can *MOOCH.*
> 
> *Israel, the mooch capital of the world.*
Click to expand...

Such an angry Islamist. You do tend to flail about with silly slogans and gargantuan text when your presumption to an entitlement to acts of islamic terrorism are met with swift and decisive responses.


----------



## Hollie

Ya Allah! 

It seems the islamic terrorist welfare fraud is not a forever endowment.

*
PMW report spurs Denmark to cut funding to PA NGOs  - PMW Bulletins

PMW report spurs Denmark 
to cut funding to PA NGOs*

*Denmark announced this week that it cut funding and is reviewing all funding of NGOs, in response to PMW exposing that money it provided was used to build a community center that Palestinians named for a mass murderer *

*Other countries cutting or freezing funding this year following PMW reports: Norway, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland
*
*PMW is changing European attitudes one country at a time*
by Itamar Marcus and Maurice Hirsch 

On May 26, 2017 PMW reported that funds provided by Norway, the UN and a conglomerate of countries including Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland had been used to build a center for young women that was subsequently named after terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi. Mughrabi led a terror attack that resulted in the murder of 37 Israelis, including 12 children, in 1978.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Corporate Media Beats The Drums Of War - Mnar Muhawesh Speaks Out*


----------



## Hollie

*Santa is a rock-throwing Palestinian and victim of Israel - PMW Bulletins

Santa is a rock-throwing Palestinian
in Fatah cartoon*






*Official PA daily presents Santa as victim of Israel*
Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

On the occasion of Christmas, Fatah tweeted the cartoon above showing Santa Claus pouring rocks on an Israeli soldier with a Star of David on his helmet, who is running away in fear. Next to Santa a smiling Palestinian woman with a Palestinian flag on her dress is making the "V" sign for “Victory.” [Official Fatah Twitter account, Dec. 24, 2017]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli goontards attacking civilians, again.

*Union Of Palestinian Women Demonstration Outside Ofer Prison*

**


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli goontards attacking civilians, again.
> 
> *Union Of Palestinian Women Demonstration Outside Ofer Prison*
> 
> **


Does Pallywood have a screen guild?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards attacking civilians, again.
> 
> *Union Of Palestinian Women Demonstration Outside Ofer Prison*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Does Pallywood have a screen guild?
Click to expand...

Ziowood does.


----------



## Hollie

Richard Landes CV | Augean Stables

The term “Pallywood” refers to the staging of scenes by Palestinian journalists in order to present the Palestinians as hapless victims of Israeli aggression. They are able to succeed in this endeavor in large part due to the credulity and eagerness of the Western press to present these images, which reinforce the image of the Palestinian David struggling valiantly against the overpowering Israeli Goliath. Pallywood has led to astonishing lapses in Western journalistic standards in which badly staged scenes regularly appear on the news as “real events.” This page attempts to outline how such lapses could have come about, producing the current situation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Richard Landes CV | Augean Stables
> 
> The term “Pallywood” refers to the staging of scenes by Palestinian journalists in order to present the Palestinians as hapless victims of Israeli aggression. They are able to succeed in this endeavor in large part due to the credulity and eagerness of the Western press to present these images, which reinforce the image of the Palestinian David struggling valiantly against the overpowering Israeli Goliath. Pallywood has led to astonishing lapses in Western journalistic standards in which badly staged scenes regularly appear on the news as “real events.” This page attempts to outline how such lapses could have come about, producing the current situation.


Faking stories to make Israel look bad is like pissing in the ocean to make it salty.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards attacking civilians, again.
> 
> *Union Of Palestinian Women Demonstration Outside Ofer Prison*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Does Pallywood have a screen guild?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ziowood does.
Click to expand...




> Islamic supremacism is the true source of the Arab-Israeli conflict.



Read the article. The title of Palestinian means 0.
Why There's Muslim Violence, but not Christian Violence, in the Middle East


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pallywood Youtube


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*PFLP demands PA stop political arrests of activists in West Bank*

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine demanded the Palestinian Authority and its security services to stop the onslaught of political arrests against political activists in the West Bank, especially in the context of the so-called “Electronic Crimes Law.”

Despite the demand of national and human rights organizations to end political arrests and contrary to all of the discussion of reconciliation, the PA is continuing the policy of arrests in the West Bank. On October 14, human rights activist Montasser Karajah and youth organizer Hamza Zbeidat were arrested for political reasons; when Karajah was released, he was require to return again for interrogation by the PA intelligence the following day.

The Front demanded that the PA security forces end this miserable policy aimed at our Palestinian youth, our organizers and anyone who expresses his opinion or opposes the policies of the Authority through democratic means.

The continuation of this destructive path and the policy of the confiscation of the freedoms of the Palestinian citizens, which reflects a systematic pursuit of political activists in the West Bank, only acts to destroy efforts for reconciliation and does not contribute at all to creating an atmosphere of unity. It also unleashes the occupation to target and arrest these activists, many of whom have previously been jailed by the occupier.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *PFLP demands PA stop political arrests of activists in West Bank*
> 
> The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine demanded the Palestinian Authority and its security services to stop the onslaught of political arrests against political activists in the West Bank, especially in the context of the so-called “Electronic Crimes Law.”
> 
> Despite the demand of national and human rights organizations to end political arrests and contrary to all of the discussion of reconciliation, the PA is continuing the policy of arrests in the West Bank. On October 14, human rights activist Montasser Karajah and youth organizer Hamza Zbeidat were arrested for political reasons; when Karajah was released, he was require to return again for interrogation by the PA intelligence the following day.
> 
> The Front demanded that the PA security forces end this miserable policy aimed at our Palestinian youth, our organizers and anyone who expresses his opinion or opposes the policies of the Authority through democratic means.
> 
> The continuation of this destructive path and the policy of the confiscation of the freedoms of the Palestinian citizens, which reflects a systematic pursuit of political activists in the West Bank, only acts to destroy efforts for reconciliation and does not contribute at all to creating an atmosphere of unity. It also unleashes the occupation to target and arrest these activists, many of whom have previously been jailed by the occupier.




Here is a good report about why the Electronic Crimes Law is problematic.  Phrasing such as "immoral act"; "public morals";  "integrity of the Palestinian State"; "harming national unity" is vague and left to interpretation and discretion.  

I fully applaud, though, the criminalization of "threats to commit a felony" and "disturbing public order" on social media.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PFLP demands PA stop political arrests of activists in West Bank*
> 
> The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine demanded the Palestinian Authority and its security services to stop the onslaught of political arrests against political activists in the West Bank, especially in the context of the so-called “Electronic Crimes Law.”
> 
> Despite the demand of national and human rights organizations to end political arrests and contrary to all of the discussion of reconciliation, the PA is continuing the policy of arrests in the West Bank. On October 14, human rights activist Montasser Karajah and youth organizer Hamza Zbeidat were arrested for political reasons; when Karajah was released, he was require to return again for interrogation by the PA intelligence the following day.
> 
> The Front demanded that the PA security forces end this miserable policy aimed at our Palestinian youth, our organizers and anyone who expresses his opinion or opposes the policies of the Authority through democratic means.
> 
> The continuation of this destructive path and the policy of the confiscation of the freedoms of the Palestinian citizens, which reflects a systematic pursuit of political activists in the West Bank, only acts to destroy efforts for reconciliation and does not contribute at all to creating an atmosphere of unity. It also unleashes the occupation to target and arrest these activists, many of whom have previously been jailed by the occupier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a good report about why the Electronic Crimes Law is problematic.  Phrasing such as "immoral act"; "public morals";  "integrity of the Palestinian State"; "harming national unity" is vague and left to interpretation and discretion.
> 
> I fully applaud, though, the criminalization of "threats to commit a felony" and "disturbing public order" on social media.
Click to expand...

It is all based on political opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is all based on political opinion.



Meh.  Incitement to murder or commit a felony or disrupt public order is not "political opinion".  Belief that women should be able to ride bicycles is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all based on political opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh.  Incitement to murder or commit a felony or disrupt public order is not "political opinion".  Belief that women should be able to ride bicycles is.
Click to expand...

OK, but mostly it is a disagreement on political opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

11-year-old Palestinian journalist Janna Jihad Tamimi talks with us from Nabi Saleh about the situation on the ground in her village and the arrest of her 16-year-old cousin Ahed Tamimi. Sign the petition at #FreeAhed


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all based on political opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh.  Incitement to murder or commit a felony or disrupt public order is not "political opinion".  Belief that women should be able to ride bicycles is.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli forces attack protesters demanding release of Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli forces attack protesters demanding release of Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **



Press TV. What a joke.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Activists bring London commuters face-to-face with Ahed Tamimi*

*



*

*Commuters across London came face-to-face with the occupation on Thursday, after local activist groups put up posters at bus stops around the city calling for the release of Ahed Tamimi. The project — conceived and executed by London Palestine Action and Protest Stencil — hit London’s streets nine days after Israeli soldiers took Ahed, 16, from her Nabi Saleh home in the middle of the night, and is the latest in a series of global protests against the arrest.*

*Activists bring London commuters face-to-face with Ahed Tamimi | +972 Magazine*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*+972's Story of the Year: The trial of Dareen Tatour*

*



*

*The surreal arrest and trial of a Palestinian poet symbolizes a crackdown on free speech, surveillance on social media, and rising authoritarian trends in Israel. +972’s Story of the Year for 2017.*

For the past year and half, a strange and disturbing drama has been playing out in a Haifa courtroom. In the defendant’s seat is a poet, on trial for a political poem she wrote, performed, and published on Facebook. Whether she goes to prison for publishing that poem rests largely on how the judge ultimately interprets a few words translated by a policeman whose main qualification is that he studied Arabic literature in high school.

Dareen Tatour, 35, is a Palestinian citizen of Israel from the town of Reineh, just outside of Nazareth. Her poem, “Qawem Ya Sha’abi, Qawemhum” (“Resist my people, resist them”), was published in 2015, at the height of Palestinian protests across Israel and the West Bank and a wave of so-called lone wolf stabbing and vehicular attacks against Israeli security forces and civilians, largely in Jerusalem and Hebron. A few days later, police stormed her house and arrested her in the middle of the night. She spent three months in prison and has been under house arrest ever since, pending the conclusion of her trial.

+972’s Story of the Year: The trial of Dareen Tatour | +972 Magazine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *+972's Story of the Year: The trial of Dareen Tatour*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *The surreal arrest and trial of a Palestinian poet symbolizes a crackdown on free speech, surveillance on social media, and rising authoritarian trends in Israel. +972’s Story of the Year for 2017.*
> 
> For the past year and half, a strange and disturbing drama has been playing out in a Haifa courtroom. In the defendant’s seat is a poet, on trial for a political poem she wrote, performed, and published on Facebook. Whether she goes to prison for publishing that poem rests largely on how the judge ultimately interprets a few words translated by a policeman whose main qualification is that he studied Arabic literature in high school.
> 
> Dareen Tatour, 35, is a Palestinian citizen of Israel from the town of Reineh, just outside of Nazareth. Her poem, “Qawem Ya Sha’abi, Qawemhum” (“Resist my people, resist them”), was published in 2015, at the height of Palestinian protests across Israel and the West Bank and a wave of so-called lone wolf stabbing and vehicular attacks against Israeli security forces and civilians, largely in Jerusalem and Hebron. A few days later, police stormed her house and arrested her in the middle of the night. She spent three months in prison and has been under house arrest ever since, pending the conclusion of her trial.
> 
> +972’s Story of the Year: The trial of Dareen Tatour | +972 Magazine



Oh so now* incitement to violence* is poetry...
and Antifa attacks are a ballet of peace?


----------



## Shusha

And she is an Israeli citizen.  What IS Israel to do with a hostile population like this?  What would Arab Palestine do with a hostile Jewish population intent on dissolving Palestine and removing the Arabs there?


----------



## Linkiloo

Israel should start using Russian, Turkish or Chinese tactics. I think that is what Tinmore is suggesting. Arresting someone at night is apparently too mild.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Linkiloo said:


> Israel should start using Russian, Turkish or Chinese tactics. I think that is what Tinmore is suggesting. Arresting someone at night is apparently too mild.


Actually, Israel's actions are so third world where people fear that "midnight knock.".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> And she is an Israeli citizen.  What IS Israel to do with a hostile population like this?  What would Arab Palestine do with a hostile Jewish population intent on dissolving Palestine and removing the Arabs there?


BDS.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi in Israel's kangaroo court.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi in Israel's kangaroo court.



See her smile.  This is the greatest role of her Pallywood career!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gideon Levy eviscerates the morality of Israelis in the twisted world where activists stay silent when a disabled man is gunned down, and feminists and child advocates say little when 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi is grabbed and arrested in the middle of the night for standing up to occupation.

“And what would you have felt if soldiers from a foreign army had invaded your home at night, kidnapped your daughter from her bed before your very eyes, handcuffed and arrested her for a lengthy period, simply because she slapped the soldier who invaded her home, and slapped the occupation, which deserves far more than slaps?”

And if Ahed Tamimi Were Your Daughter?

How is it that Israelis are totally indifferent to the plight of the blond girl behind bars who could easily be their child?
read more: And if Ahed Tamimi were your daughter?


----------



## montelatici

A typical Israeli take on the incident.  Are there people any more despicable?

"Ben Caspit, a journalist for the Maariv daily, praised the soldiers for not reacting, but called for retaliation against the Tamimi family.

"In the case of the girls, we should exact a price at some other opportunity, in the dark, without witnesses and cameras," he wrote.

Palestinian girl Ahed Tamimi praised as hero after confronting soldiers


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Gideon Levy eviscerates the morality of Israelis in the twisted world where activists stay silent when a disabled man is gunned down, and feminists and child advocates say little when 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi is grabbed and arrested in the middle of the night for standing up to occupation.
> 
> “And what would you have felt if soldiers from a foreign army had invaded your home at night, kidnapped your daughter from her bed before your very eyes, handcuffed and arrested her for a lengthy period, simply because she slapped the soldier who invaded her home, and slapped the occupation, which deserves far more than slaps?”
> 
> And if Ahed Tamimi Were Your Daughter?
> 
> How is it that Israelis are totally indifferent to the plight of the blond girl behind bars who could easily be their child?
> read more: And if Ahed Tamimi were your daughter?



Nice. Play the race card with reference to the caucasian looking juvenile delinquent.


----------



## montelatici

It appears the Israeli government pressured Twitter to delete the girl's account, too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> It appears the Israeli government pressured Twitter to delete the girl's account, too.


Israel is a loser on the issues so it wants to close down any discussion.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> It appears the Israeli government pressured Twitter to delete the girl's account, too.


Another Monty conspiracy theory?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears the Israeli government pressured Twitter to delete the girl's account, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a loser on the issues so it wants to close down any discussion.
Click to expand...

You and monty - a couple of conspiracy theory loons.


----------



## Hollie

The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.


Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins

*Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah*
*including 4 female suicide bombers*

*Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125*
*Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children*
*Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6*
*Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5*
*Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2*
*Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2*
*Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1*
*Karim Younes - murdered 1*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:

"The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"


Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

Heroes of the Islamic terrorist Death Cult.

Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins





*Khalil Al-Wazir - Abu Jihad* - former head of the PLO's military wing, was responsible for the murder of at least 125 Israelis, according to the PA's news agency Wafa. 
Text: 
"Heroic Martyr (_Shahid_)
Fatah Movement Central Committee member,
Khalil Al-Wazir 'Abu Jihad'"

The number "53" represents the 53rd anniversary of the "Launch" of Fatah. In the upper right corner is the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel together with the PA areas as "Palestine"



How strange that we're advised the islamic terrorists posing as "Pal'istanians" don't have an armed force yet they have a military wing and uniforms they wear during goofy islamic terrorist fashion show parades.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.
Click to expand...


I'll mention the Israelis defending themselves and resisting islamic terrorist attacks.

Islamic terrorism carries consequences such as dead islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll mention the Israelis defending themselves and resisting islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences such as dead islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

You know I don't buy into Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Defining and Defeating the Opioid Crisis | Manal Fakhoury | TEDxJacksonville*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Indeed!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll mention the Israelis defending themselves and resisting islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences such as dead islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know I don't buy into Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorist attacks by a guy named Abu Gee-had is not israeli propaganda. He is identified as a hero by your heroes.


----------



## Hollie

*Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*

www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/


Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll mention the Israelis defending themselves and resisting islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences such as dead islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know I don't buy into Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist attacks by a guy named Abu Gee-had is not israeli propaganda. He is identified as a hero by your heroes.
Click to expand...

Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign, I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.


No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
Click to expand...


No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
*
It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The islamic Death Cultists masquerading as Pal'istanians are whipping themselves into a Death Cult frenzy.
> 
> 
> Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah including 4 female suicide bombers - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Murderers of 179 Israelis honored by Fatah
> including 4 female suicide bombers*
> 
> *Abu Jihad - orchestrated murder of 125
> Dalal Mughrabi - led murder of 37, among them 12 children
> Andalib Takatka - suicide bomber, murdered 6
> Marwan Barghouti - orchestrated murder of 5
> Ayyat Al-Akhras - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Zainab Abu Salem - suicide bomber, murdered 2
> Wafa Idris - suicide bomber, murdered 1
> Karim Younes - murdered 1*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> The official Facebook page of Abbas' Fatah Movement celebrated Fatah's 53rd anniversary by glorifying eight terrorist murderers from its ranks, four of them female suicide bombers. Fatah posted photos of the killers with the same text and logo on Dec. 30, 2017:
> 
> "The Palestinian National Liberation Movement - Fatah
> Mobilization and Organization Commission - Communications Office
> The 53rd anniversary of the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution"
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians killed by Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll mention the Israelis defending themselves and resisting islamic terrorist attacks.
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences such as dead islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know I don't buy into Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorist attacks by a guy named Abu Gee-had is not israeli propaganda. He is identified as a hero by your heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign, I see.
Click to expand...


Nothing but your worn out cut and paste slogans,  I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
Click to expand...

Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
Click to expand...


You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated. 

Really pretty loathsome.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
Click to expand...

Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cousin filmed slapping soldiers with Ahed Tamimi indicted on assault*
> 
> www.timesofisrael.com/cousin-filmed-slapping-soldiers-with-ahed-tamimi-indicted-on-assault/
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
Click to expand...


Not true. Look at the video.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise. Israeli assholes are so predictable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
Click to expand...


Look @0:23


----------



## Mindful

“Concentration Camp” Gaza’s Latest Barracks
Thank you to the antisemitic Palestinian Information Center, which I find ever so helpful!
ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> 
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
Click to expand...



It's so obvious she was provoking him to get a response.  The soldier's self-restraint is remarkable.  And her cousin was shot with a rubber bullet--not a real one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> 
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
Click to expand...


Look at the.beginning.


----------



## Shusha

Um. Yeah. She hits him first   More than once. He pushes her away when she is grabbing him. To create distance and to remove her hands from him. He doesn't hit her at the beginning of the video. (At 0:23). 

She is clearly, in words and deed, the aggressor here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's so obvious she was provoking him to get a response.  The soldier's self-restraint is remarkable.  And her cousin was shot with a rubber bullet--not a real one.
Click to expand...

She was trying to get him out of her yard. He hit her and that is when she went off on him.


----------



## abi

Shusha said:


> Um. Yeah. She hits him first More than once. He pushes her away when she is grabbing him. To create distance and to remove her hands from him. He doesn't hit her at the beginning of the video. (At 0:23).
> 
> She is clearly, in words and deed, the aggressor here.


Why lie? It's a video.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um. Yeah. She hits him first More than once. He pushes her away when she is grabbing him. To create distance and to remove her hands from him. He doesn't hit her at the beginning of the video. (At 0:23).
> 
> She is clearly, in words and deed, the aggressor here.
> 
> 
> 
> Why lie? It's a video.
Click to expand...

Why announce your ignorance on a public discussion board?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's so obvious she was provoking him to get a response.  The soldier's self-restraint is remarkable.  And her cousin was shot with a rubber bullet--not a real one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was trying to get him out of her yard. He hit her and that is when she went off on him.
Click to expand...


You’re in deep denial.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ahed's gee-had is "had".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today

OK we are at page 50 and I see that the Barrage of anti-Israeli propaganda has not diminished.  And as usual, this staged event surrounding that poor sweet little old Ahed al-Tamimi.



P F Tinmore said:


> Truncated Media Snip


*(COMMENT)*

For the last half-century, despite the intent of the A/RES/2/110 (condemns all forms of propaganda, designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression)  ⇒  component of today’s incitement to arouse the Arab Palestinian public. This type of extremist video's let loose the emotionally charged ⇒ anti-Israel and anti-Semitic hatred ⇒  in the form of pervasive presentations in all levels of Arab Palestinian society has inevitably led to violence and terror.

Such video's only serves to aggravate political differences and encourage confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> OK we are at page 50 and I see that the Barrage of anti-Israeli propaganda has not diminished.  And as usual, this staged event surrounding that poor sweet little old Ahed al-Tamimi.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truncated Media Snip
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the last half-century, despite the intent of the A/RES/2/110 (condemns all forms of propaganda, designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression)  ⇒  component of today’s incitement to arouse the Arab Palestinian public. This type of extremist video's let loose the emotionally charged ⇒ anti-Israel and anti-Semitic hatred ⇒  in the form of pervasive presentations in all levels of Arab Palestinian society has inevitably led to violence and terror.
> 
> Such video's only serves to aggravate political differences and encourage confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.


----------



## montelatici

What propaganda.  It's a fact that the Israelis are trying to put a child behind bars because she resists Israeli violence against her family and the non-Jews in general.  Child abuse is fine for your kind as long as the children are Palestinians.  Disgusting.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> OK we are at page 50 and I see that the Barrage of anti-Israeli propaganda has not diminished.  And as usual, this staged event surrounding that poor sweet little old Ahed al-Tamimi.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truncated Media Snip
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the last half-century, despite the intent of the A/RES/2/110 (condemns all forms of propaganda, designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression)  ⇒  component of today’s incitement to arouse the Arab Palestinian public. This type of extremist video's let loose the emotionally charged ⇒ anti-Israel and anti-Semitic hatred ⇒  in the form of pervasive presentations in all levels of Arab Palestinian society has inevitably led to violence and terror.
> 
> Such video's only serves to aggravate political differences and encourage confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
Click to expand...


Actually, you’re just incensed that the Islamist settler colonial project has come to an end,


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> What propaganda.  It's a fact that the Israelis are trying to put a child behind bars because she resists Israeli violence against her family and the non-Jews in general.  Child abuse is fine for your kind as long as the children are Palestinians.  Disgusting.



Oh, what melodrama! What a shame that you promote the Arab-Moslem syndrome that provides for the exploitation of children.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

While the layman might use this terminology "colonial" in this fashion; itt is not really correct.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> OK we are at page 50 and I see that the Barrage of anti-Israeli propaganda has not diminished.  And as usual, this staged event surrounding that poor sweet little old Ahed al-Tamimi.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truncated Media Snip
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the last half-century, despite the intent of the A/RES/2/110 (condemns all forms of propaganda, designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression)  ⇒  component of today’s incitement to arouse the Arab Palestinian public. This type of extremist video's let loose the emotionally charged ⇒ anti-Israel and anti-Semitic hatred ⇒  in the form of pervasive presentations in all levels of Arab Palestinian society has inevitably led to violence and terror.
> 
> Such video's only serves to aggravate political differences and encourage confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The settlements in Area "C" are inside the defined authority of the Oslo Accords.  The Arab Palestinians (PLO as the Sole Representative of the Palestinians) made the agreement [_(a) 'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;_] under the A/48/486 S/2656 • Declaration of Principles Interim Self-Government Arrangements  •  OSLO I  • 11 October 1993 and as well as A/51/889-S/1997/357 • Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip  • OSLO II Accord • 28 September 1995; as signed by Mahmoud Abbas.  

Any difference relating to the application of this Agreement shall be referred to the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism established under this Agreement. The provisions of Article XV of the DOP shall apply to any such difference which is not settled through the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism, namely:

*ARTICLE XXI   (OSLO II)*
*Settlement of Differences and Disputes*

_1. Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Agreement or any related agreements pertaining to the interim shall be settled through the Liaison Committee.

2. Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be settled by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed between the Parties.

3. The Parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation. To this end, upon the agreement of both Parties, the Parties will establish an Arbitration Committee._​
The Arab Palestinians have absolutely no room to perpetuate this deliberate fraud in the twisting of the truth.  The fact is the Arab Palestinians gave "tacit approval" when they implied by by a failure to clearly express disapproval with the settlements through the Disputed Resolution Process; _supra_.  _"Considering_ it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter;" as stated in the A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  The issue of "settlements" have been --- and --- still are subject to Article V(3) of the Oslo I Declaration of Principles:

ARTICLE V(3)  •  TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS
_It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees,* settlements,* security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other _
_issues of common interest. _​It is exceptionally clear that the Arab Palestinians "Intentionally" chose:
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=640&doc_id=1164
*Article 9 • Palestine National Charter of 1968: 
Armed struggle* is the only way to liberate Palestine.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise you're incensed that infidel justice levies consequences for assault and other criminal acts. I'd suggest you demand the prayer leader at your mafrassah to declare January the official month of *Moslem Rage 2018.
> *
> It will be met by indifference from the Arab-Islamist world which has had enough of Pal'istanian whining.
> 
> 
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
Click to expand...

The brave soldier hit her first. It's funny watching people lie about what is obvious in a video.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→abi, et al,

You are an idiot.



abi said:


> The brave soldier hit her first. It's funny watching people lie about what is obvious in a video.


*(COMMENT)*

It is quite apparent to me that the young girls:

Were not under apprehension.
The girls approached the Israeli personnel of their own free will.
The girls instigated the confrontation and initiated the assault first.
That it was the girls could have walked away at any time.
This is not all that dissimilar to other staged events I've seen where Arab Palestinians approach and escalate the contact towards violence. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→abi, et al,
> 
> You are an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> The brave soldier hit her first. It's funny watching people lie about what is obvious in a video.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is quite apparent to me that the young girls:
> 
> Were not under apprehension.
> The girls approached the Israeli personnel of their own free will.
> The girls instigated the confrontation and initiated the assault first.
> That it was the girls could have walked away at any time.
> This is not all that dissimilar to other staged events I've seen where Arab Palestinians approach and escalate the contact towards violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Your ad hominen attacks mean nothing. Same as your walls of copy/paste text.
Lying about what we can all see in a video is idiotic. Not an attack, but fact.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> While the layman might use this terminology "colonial" in this fashion; itt is not really correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> OK we are at page 50 and I see that the Barrage of anti-Israeli propaganda has not diminished.  And as usual, this staged event surrounding that poor sweet little old Ahed al-Tamimi.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truncated Media Snip
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For the last half-century, despite the intent of the A/RES/2/110 (condemns all forms of propaganda, designed or likely to provoke or encourage a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression)  ⇒  component of today’s incitement to arouse the Arab Palestinian public. This type of extremist video's let loose the emotionally charged ⇒ anti-Israel and anti-Semitic hatred ⇒  in the form of pervasive presentations in all levels of Arab Palestinian society has inevitably led to violence and terror.
> 
> Such video's only serves to aggravate political differences and encourage confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The settlements in Area "C" are inside the defined authority of the Oslo Accords.  The Arab Palestinians (PLO as the Sole Representative of the Palestinians) made the agreement [_(a) 'treaty' means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;_] under the A/48/486 S/2656 • Declaration of Principles Interim Self-Government Arrangements  •  OSLO I  • 11 October 1993 and as well as A/51/889-S/1997/357 • Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip  • OSLO II Accord • 28 September 1995; as signed by Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> Any difference relating to the application of this Agreement shall be referred to the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism established under this Agreement. The provisions of Article XV of the DOP shall apply to any such difference which is not settled through the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism, namely:
> 
> *ARTICLE XXI   (OSLO II)
> Settlement of Differences and Disputes*
> 
> _1. Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Agreement or any related agreements pertaining to the interim shall be settled through the Liaison Committee._
> 
> _2. Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be settled by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed between the Parties._
> 
> _3. The Parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation. To this end, upon the agreement of both Parties, the Parties will establish an Arbitration Committee._​
> The Arab Palestinians have absolutely no room to perpetuate this deliberate fraud in the twisting of the truth.  The fact is the Arab Palestinians gave "tacit approval" when they implied by by a failure to clearly express disapproval with the settlements through the Disputed Resolution Process; _supra_.  _"Considering_ it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter;" as stated in the A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970).  The issue of "settlements" have been --- and --- still are subject to Article V(3) of the Oslo I Declaration of Principles:
> 
> ARTICLE V(3)  •  TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS
> _It is understood that these negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees,* settlements,* security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other _
> _issues of common interest. _​It is exceptionally clear that the Arab Palestinians "Intentionally" chose:
> *Article 9 • Palestine National Charter of 1968:
> Armed struggle* is the only way to liberate Palestine.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Treaties and agreements must conform to international law. They cannot make legal what is illegal.

Stealing land, destroying property, and attacking civilians are illegal with or without agreements.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Justice is such a misnomer in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have issues with a reality based worldview. In the relevant, first world, assault and battery is a crime. While you applaud the use of teenage girls to the wage gee-had you won't, it's more than just a little creepy that you and others will gladly flaunt your cowardice and create the conditions where children grow up in an environment of hate and criminal behavior. It's child abuse - pure and unadulterated.
> 
> Really pretty loathsome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the video. The Israeli goontard slapped her first. Of course that part will be missed by Israel's kangaroo court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true. Look at the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The brave soldier hit her first. It's funny watching people lie about what is obvious in a video.
Click to expand...


Your claim is a fraud. Fortunately, the video directly contradicts your fraudulent claim.


----------



## montelatici

In fact, it is doubtful that any agreement reached with a party under belligerent military occupation could be enforced under international law, as the occupier has the opportunity to coerce the party under belligerent military occupation in the negotiations.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> In fact, it is doubtful that any agreement reached with a party under belligerent military occupation could be enforced under international law, as the occupier has the opportunity to coerce the party under belligerent military occupation in the negotiations.


In fact, good faith negotiations with hostile, competing islamic terrorist franchises are meaningless. There is no responsible government that represents the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roadmap to Apartheid


----------



## Hollie

Roadmap to Islamic fascism / apartheid.

*Gaza Strip Religion Facts & Stats

Gaza:*
Religions Muslim (predominantly Sunni) 99.3%, Christian 0.7%


----------



## Hollie

Roadmap to apartheid.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another false presentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.


*(COMMENT)*



			
				Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
			
		

> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •


*(COMMENT)*

"Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."

It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another false presentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes;


The British proposal required the Palestinians to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course they rejected it.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that shows that Ahed Tamimi is the assailant.



P F Tinmore said:


> Look @0:23


*(COMMENT)*

As in most countries in the Middle East and Europe, you hit a LEO/Military Security Personnel, you either go to booking, or the ER...




​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, that shows that Ahed Tamimi is the assailant.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look @0:23
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As in most countries in the Middle East and Europe, you hit a LEO/Military Security Personnel, you either go to booking, or the ER...
> 
> View attachment 169631​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You call those criminals LEO?


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another false presentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British proposal required the Palestinians to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course they rejected it.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You make these allegations, with nothing supporting them, submit something that is totally misinterpreted.

I have not seen anyone ask the Arab Palestinians  to forfeit any rights (civil or religious) from the time of the transition Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1918) transference to Civil and Administrative Control by the Mandatory (1920).

The point here was that the Hostile Arab Palestinians would rather fight than engage in a peace dispute resolution process.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another false presentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British proposal required the Palestinians to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course they rejected it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make these allegations, with nothing supporting them, submit something that is totally misinterpreted.
> 
> I have not seen anyone ask the Arab Palestinians  to forfeit any rights (civil or religious) from the time of the transition Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1918) transference to Civil and Administrative Control by the Mandatory (1920).
> 
> The point here was that the Hostile Arab Palestinians would rather fight than engage in a peace dispute resolution process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another false presentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British proposal required the Palestinians to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course they rejected it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make these allegations, with nothing supporting them, submit something that is totally misinterpreted.
> 
> I have not seen anyone ask the Arab Palestinians  to forfeit any rights (civil or religious) from the time of the transition Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1918) transference to Civil and Administrative Control by the Mandatory (1920).
> 
> The point here was that the Hostile Arab Palestinians would rather fight than engage in a peace dispute resolution process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
Click to expand...

You need to show more proof of what you say. In case you did not understand post #518.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Indeependent

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another false presentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's settler colonial project is the confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paragraph 22 • UK History of Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. *The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”.* The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
> 
> 
> “The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”
> In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:* •  A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947  •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Fear" in the hearts of the Hostile Arab Palestinians or just plain "Greed."
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes; especially on matters of immigration.  Once again, the method of choice was "armed struggle and continuing conflict."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was obvious that the Arab Palestinians DID NOT want to engage in the governing processes;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The British proposal required the Palestinians to sign on to the settler colonial project. Of course they rejected it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You make these allegations, with nothing supporting them, submit something that is totally misinterpreted.
> 
> I have not seen anyone ask the Arab Palestinians  to forfeit any rights (civil or religious) from the time of the transition Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (1918) transference to Civil and Administrative Control by the Mandatory (1920).
> 
> The point here was that the Hostile Arab Palestinians would rather fight than engage in a peace dispute resolution process.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to show more proof of what you say. In case you did not understand post #518.
Click to expand...

P F Retard is a shill.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Heroic Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed Tamim Is Latest Child Political Prisoner in Israel*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Heroic Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed Tamim Is Latest Child Political Prisoner in Israel*
> 
> **




She is a hot-tempered brat, just looking for trouble, as well as a perfect Pallywood actress.  The soldiers who restrain themselves, when they are around her, are nothing short of remarkable.  I couldn't do that.  She does, however, serve a purpose.  Until she came along with her blond locks, Jose and monte would post pictures of blond Israelis as proof that Israelis are not Semitic or native to the region.  They can't post those pictures anymore.  She is proof that Palestinians are not native to the region.  In fact, she is probably descended from Bosnian Muslims.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al

This is NOT, by any definition, a political prisoner.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Heroic Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed Tamim Is Latest Child Political Prisoner in Israel*
> 
> **


*(COMMENT)*

This is a membership of a ruthless ‘sister street-gang,’who is being booked for assault.  She is neither heroic or politically retained for her beliefs.  She is just a common ordinary street urchin trying to create trouble; getting her 15 minutes of fame.  

These kinds of quasi-street gangs (all female) have been around since the late 1960's.  BUT, it is not unique to either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  They can be very benign at times; running together for protection against those that would do them harm.  Others are swarms of hoodlums that strike like piranha; that will engulf the prey.  

There are times that the gaggle will send one or two members out in the open - appearing vulnerable and alone to cause trouble, and when it starts, they swarm in from all directions.  This is how female street gangs often mark their turf. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

Kids under military occupation resisting are "street gangs".  You are a hopeless case.  If they were Jewish kids in the same situation, you would be hailing them as heroes.  You are disgusting.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> This is NOT, by any definition, a political prisoner.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Heroic Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed Tamim Is Latest Child Political Prisoner in Israel*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a membership of a ruthless ‘sister street-gang,’who is being booked for assault.  She is neither heroic or politically retained for her beliefs.  She is just a common ordinary street urchin trying to create trouble; getting her 15 minutes of fame.
> 
> These kinds of quasi-street gangs (all female) have been around since the late 1960's.  BUT, it is not unique to either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  They can be very benign at times; running together for protection against those that would do them harm.  Others are swarms of hoodlums that strike like piranha; that will engulf the prey.
> 
> There are times that the gaggle will send one or two members out in the open - appearing vulnerable and alone to cause trouble, and when it starts, they swarm in from all directions.  This is how female street gangs often mark their turf.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel goes into their village, steals their land, steals their water, sprays them with "skunk" and tear gas, arrests them and kills them.

Then Israel whines when a little girl slaps one of their criminal goontards in the face.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> This is NOT, by any definition, a political prisoner.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Heroic Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed Tamim Is Latest Child Political Prisoner in Israel*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a membership of a ruthless ‘sister street-gang,’who is being booked for assault.  She is neither heroic or politically retained for her beliefs.  She is just a common ordinary street urchin trying to create trouble; getting her 15 minutes of fame.
> 
> These kinds of quasi-street gangs (all female) have been around since the late 1960's.  BUT, it is not unique to either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.  They can be very benign at times; running together for protection against those that would do them harm.  Others are swarms of hoodlums that strike like piranha; that will engulf the prey.
> 
> There are times that the gaggle will send one or two members out in the open - appearing vulnerable and alone to cause trouble, and when it starts, they swarm in from all directions.  This is how female street gangs often mark their turf.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel goes into their village, steals their land, steals their water, sprays them with "skunk" and tear gas, arrests them and kills them.
> 
> Then Israel whines when a little girl slaps one of their criminal goontards in the face.
Click to expand...

Out right lies. This thread is a zero. 0 credibility. 0 substance.


----------



## Lastamender

montelatici said:


> Kids under military occupation resisting are "street gangs".  You are a hopeless case.  If they were Jewish kids in the same situation, you would be hailing them as heroes.  You are disgusting.


Like the Jewish children who lived through the Holocaust? Those were hero's.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  montelatici, et al,

She engaged the Israeli Security Patrol intentionally.



montelatici said:


> Kids under military occupation resisting are "street gangs".  You are a hopeless case.  If they were Jewish kids in the same situation, you would be hailing them as heroes.  You are disgusting.


*(THE LAW)*

*Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

 Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*

•  *ARTICLE 68** [ Link ]* •

Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.​
*(COMMENT)*

I'm not saying that all encounters with Israeli Security or Police Patrols are subject to International Humanitarian Law (IHL), in this case Article 68; but, it was intentional and not indirect or accidental.

You can apply honors to the kid _(Ahed Tamimi)_ all you want.  That is the normal answer and response of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP); that prefer confrontation - to - negotiation IAW the Charter and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  The Senior Leaders of the Government _(State of Palestine)_ is directly involved with multiple organizations that are designated as terrorists.  It is important to understand that these very same HoAP leaders have ignored their obligations under international law to counter incitement of such criminal acts and to prevent the subversion of Article 43 HR area public order and safety requirements. It is important to prevent terrorists from exploiting by social media, video presentations, and resources to incite support for further criminal acts...  AND it is just as critical that the outside observers know that the HoAP *[and Leaders of the Government (State of Palestine)]* are actively encouraging the entire Arab Palestinian population to create such incidents.  These are efforts to exploit as a propaganda effort against Israel, just as Ahed Tamimi was encourage to stage such an event to be video record for exploitation.

Yes, these kids live in an environment created, by at least three prior generations, that intentionally avoid pursuing peaceful means in developing conflict resolution.  The mindset is:  Armed Struggle is the Only Way.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici, et al,
> 
> She engaged the Israeli Security Patrol intentionally.
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kids under military occupation resisting are "street gangs".  You are a hopeless case.  If they were Jewish kids in the same situation, you would be hailing them as heroes.  You are disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> *(THE LAW)*
> 
> *Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> 
> Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty*
> 
> •  *ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]* •
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not saying that all encounters with Israeli Security or Police Patrols are subject to International Humanitarian Law (IHL), in this case Article 68; but, it was intentional and not indirect or accidental.
> 
> You can apply honors to the kid _(Ahed Tamimi)_ all you want.  That is the normal answer and response of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP); that prefer confrontation - to - negotiation IAW the Charter and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  The Senior Leaders of the Government _(State of Palestine)_ is directly involved with multiple organizations that are designated as terrorists.  It is important to understand that these very same HoAP leaders have ignored their obligations under international law to counter incitement of such criminal acts and to prevent the subversion of Article 43 HR area public order and safety requirements. It is important to prevent terrorists from exploiting by social media, video presentations, and resources to incite support for further criminal acts...  AND it is just as critical that the outside observers know that the HoAP *[and Leaders of the Government (State of Palestine)]* are actively encouraging the entire Arab Palestinian population to create such incidents.  These are efforts to exploit as a propaganda effort against Israel, just as Ahed Tamimi was encourage to stage such an event to be video record for exploitation.
> 
> Yes, these kids live in an environment created, by at least three prior generations, that intentionally avoid pursuing peaceful means in developing conflict resolution.  The mindset is:  Armed Struggle is the Only Way.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have it 100% wrong...



P F Tinmore said:


> [Israel goes into their village, steals their land, steals their water, sprays them with "skunk" and tear gas, arrests them and kills them.
> 
> Then Israel whines when a little girl slaps one of their criminal goontards in the face.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel is not whining at all.  They just made the appropriate arrest.

It is the HoAP that started the moaning, pushing the video virally,  and praising the criminal conduct --- trying to make it sound hero. 

This is the footprint of a scam.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

Criminal conduct? Like occupying land, bringing a military and police force to harass the native population. We have already shown that beyond the settlements that are flagrant violations of international law, they embody the concept of state-sponsored terror perfectly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have it 100% wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Israel goes into their village, steals their land, steals their water, sprays them with "skunk" and tear gas, arrests them and kills them.
> 
> Then Israel whines when a little girl slaps one of their criminal goontards in the face.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is not whining at all.  They just made the appropriate arrest.
> 
> It is the HoAP that started the moaning, pushing the video virally,  and praising the criminal conduct --- trying to make it sound hero.
> 
> This is the footprint of a scam.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  abi, et al,

The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.

WRONG!



abi said:


> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.


*(COMMENT)*

The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi, et al,
> 
> The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Look at the zionist and every single one of their leaders who should be tried at the Hague.

The zionist terror and their occupation must end if there will be peace. You focus solely on the wrong part of the story.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi, et al,
> 
> The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A proper occupation has obligations and restrictions on the occupier. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel is just a criminal organization. There is nothing illegal about fighting off criminals.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi, et al,
> 
> The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A proper occupation has obligations and restrictions on the occupier. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel is just a criminal organization. There is nothing illegal about fighting off criminals.
Click to expand...


Isn't one of the obligations of an occupier to provide for the safety and security of the population?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi, et al,
> 
> The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A proper occupation has obligations and restrictions on the occupier. Israel violates virtually all of them. Israel is just a criminal organization. There is nothing illegal about fighting off criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't one of the obligations of an occupier to provide for the safety and security of the population?
Click to expand...

It is. Safety and security for the occupied population.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi, et al,
> 
> The only reason that I posted the IHL, is that many of the pro-Palestinians think they are free to do anything they want.  That the criminal Assault and Battery is somehow patriotic and legal.
> 
> WRONG!
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Generations of occupation must end. Everything else in your copy/pastes mean nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The mere fact that after a half century of quasi-Arab Palestinian Leaders _(very marginal leaders at that)_, the general population does not know how to behave themselves; to act like civilized people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look at the zionist and every single one of their leaders who should be tried at the Hague.
> 
> The zionist terror and their occupation must end if there will be peace. You focus solely on the wrong part of the story.
Click to expand...


You’re not focusing at all, Louie. The conditions that afflict the Islamist Middle East; poverty, ignorance, religious fanaticism, to name just a few, are endemic across that part of the world. I’m afraid your goofy slogans do nothing to address the problems afflicting your co-religionists. 

You might want to educate yourself regarding the slaughter that your fellow Islamics are bringing to Islamics across Iraq and Syria. Here’s a hint; it has nothing to do with Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> You might want to educate yourself regarding the slaughter that your fellow Islamics are bringing to Islamics across Iraq and Syria. Here’s a hint; it has nothing to do with Jews.


And nothing to do with Palestine.

End the occupation. You fears will be gone.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to educate yourself regarding the slaughter that your fellow Islamics are bringing to Islamics across Iraq and Syria. Here’s a hint; it has nothing to do with Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> End the occupation. You fears will be gone.
Click to expand...


Gee whiz, Louie. I can understand your limitations present a dilemma. That dilemma is an inability to respond to challenges to your specious opinions, Your cut and paste cartoons are a poor substitute for a reasoned response. 

Why is it that so much of the Islamic Middle East is a social, political and economic disaster? Why do you think that ending some so-called “occupation” you rattle on about do anything to change the retrogression that afflucts the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”?


----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> Why do you think that ending some so-called “occupation” you rattle on about do anything to change the retrogression that afflucts the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as “Pal’istanians”?


Really?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why Is Israel So Terrified Of A 16 Year-Old Girl?*

**


----------



## abi

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Is Israel So Terrified Of A 16 Year-Old Girl?*
> 
> **


I want to hug her. She has captivated the world, she has Israeli Jewish press comparing her with Joan of Arc, children and adults across the world are in awe of this young, true champion of the people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Is Israel So Terrified Of A 16 Year-Old Girl?*
> 
> **



Why would you think Israel is terrified of a 16 year old girl?


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Is Israel So Terrified Of A 16 Year-Old Girl?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I want to hug her. She has captivated the world, she has Israeli Jewish press comparing her with Joan of Arc, children and adults across the world are in awe of this young, true champion of the people.
Click to expand...


That’s all very melodramatic but really silly.


----------



## Hollie

*“O (Message Board gee-hadis), tighten your limp wrists on your infidel keyboards*”

_*”Your 24/7 internet gee-had is a 24/7 Cut and Paste of Rage and Silly You tube videos.“


*_
*Abbas’ Fatah: “Tighten your iron grip on the rifles" - PMW Bulletins

Abbas’ Fatah: “O fighters,*
*Tighten your iron grip on the rifles that create victory”*

*The PLO and Fatah in Nablus invite Palestinians to participate in*
*“the Friday of rage and defiance”*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age*
Viral videos of the Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi confronting Israeli soldiers reveal how the conflict is evolving with technology.

Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian civilians are nearly as old as Israel’s military presence in the occupied territories itself. Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian minors are not uncommon—one advocacy group estimated that approximately 375 Palestinians between the ages of 12 and 17 were under Israeli military detention in 2016, often on charges of stone throwing.

But for all the Palestinian youth who have had run-ins with the Israeli military, few have become as internet famous as Ahed Tamimi. The 16-year-old native of Nabi Saleh, a village in the West Bank, faced a dozen charges from Israeli authorities this week after a video of her slapping and kicking an Israeli soldier stationed outside her home spread across the web.

The video is striking. At first, Ahed (who is standing with her cousin, 20-year-old Nur Tamimi) can be seen pushing two armed soldiers, telling them to “get out” of the area surrounding the family’s home. After one soldier attempts to swat Ahed away with his arm, she responds by kicking and slapping him. The soldier dodges, but doesn’t retaliate. Soon after, Ahed’s mother, Nariman Tamimi, intervenes, urging the soldiers to leave. It was based on this altercation that all three women were charged with assault by Israeli authorities. Nariman Tamimi faces an additional charge of incitement for broadcasting the altercation on Facebook Live. Ahed Tamimi faces a total of 12 charges, including incitement and throwing stones.

A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age*
> Viral videos of the Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi confronting Israeli soldiers reveal how the conflict is evolving with technology.
> 
> Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian civilians are nearly as old as Israel’s military presence in the occupied territories itself. Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian minors are not uncommon—one advocacy group estimated that approximately 375 Palestinians between the ages of 12 and 17 were under Israeli military detention in 2016, often on charges of stone throwing.
> 
> But for all the Palestinian youth who have had run-ins with the Israeli military, few have become as internet famous as Ahed Tamimi. The 16-year-old native of Nabi Saleh, a village in the West Bank, faced a dozen charges from Israeli authorities this week after a video of her slapping and kicking an Israeli soldier stationed outside her home spread across the web.
> 
> The video is striking. At first, Ahed (who is standing with her cousin, 20-year-old Nur Tamimi) can be seen pushing two armed soldiers, telling them to “get out” of the area surrounding the family’s home. After one soldier attempts to swat Ahed away with his arm, she responds by kicking and slapping him. The soldier dodges, but doesn’t retaliate. Soon after, Ahed’s mother, Nariman Tamimi, intervenes, urging the soldiers to leave. It was based on this altercation that all three women were charged with assault by Israeli authorities. Nariman Tamimi faces an additional charge of incitement for broadcasting the altercation on Facebook Live. Ahed Tamimi faces a total of 12 charges, including incitement and throwing stones.
> 
> A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age



“Ahed Tamimi faces a total of 12 charges, including incitement and throwing stones.”

The stuff your Islamic terrorist heroes are made of.

Palestinians Tweet Guide to ‘Rock-Throwing Terror’ for Kids

Fatah, led by Palestinian Authority (PA) head Mahmoud Abbas, earlier this month posted on its Twitter account a photo of a young boy hurling rocks along with a slingshot with an explanation to Palestinians how best to throw rocks:

“In order to hit the target, there are three conditions,” the guide recommends. “1. Stand stably and balance your legs, arms, and body well. 2. Focus your gaze on the center of the target, and do not look at anything else. 3. Keep the desired balance between your body and your weapon. You are the one that controls the weapon, and not the other way around,” the guide stresses, according to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a watchdog that monitors Palestinian incitement to terrorism and anti-Semitism.



Islamism. Building Islamic terrorists one child at a time.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age*
> Viral videos of the Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi confronting Israeli soldiers reveal how the conflict is evolving with technology.
> 
> Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian civilians are nearly as old as Israel’s military presence in the occupied territories itself. Confrontations between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian minors are not uncommon—one advocacy group estimated that approximately 375 Palestinians between the ages of 12 and 17 were under Israeli military detention in 2016, often on charges of stone throwing.
> 
> But for all the Palestinian youth who have had run-ins with the Israeli military, few have become as internet famous as Ahed Tamimi. The 16-year-old native of Nabi Saleh, a village in the West Bank, faced a dozen charges from Israeli authorities this week after a video of her slapping and kicking an Israeli soldier stationed outside her home spread across the web.
> 
> The video is striking. At first, Ahed (who is standing with her cousin, 20-year-old Nur Tamimi) can be seen pushing two armed soldiers, telling them to “get out” of the area surrounding the family’s home. After one soldier attempts to swat Ahed away with his arm, she responds by kicking and slapping him. The soldier dodges, but doesn’t retaliate. Soon after, Ahed’s mother, Nariman Tamimi, intervenes, urging the soldiers to leave. It was based on this altercation that all three women were charged with assault by Israeli authorities. Nariman Tamimi faces an additional charge of incitement for broadcasting the altercation on Facebook Live. Ahed Tamimi faces a total of 12 charges, including incitement and throwing stones.
> 
> A Symbol of the Palestinian Resistance for the Internet Age
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi faces a total of 12 charges, including incitement and throwing stones.”
> 
> The stuff your Islamic terrorist heroes are made of.
> 
> Palestinians Tweet Guide to ‘Rock-Throwing Terror’ for Kids
> 
> Fatah, led by Palestinian Authority (PA) head Mahmoud Abbas, earlier this month posted on its Twitter account a photo of a young boy hurling rocks along with a slingshot with an explanation to Palestinians how best to throw rocks:
> 
> “In order to hit the target, there are three conditions,” the guide recommends. “1. Stand stably and balance your legs, arms, and body well. 2. Focus your gaze on the center of the target, and do not look at anything else. 3. Keep the desired balance between your body and your weapon. You are the one that controls the weapon, and not the other way around,” the guide stresses, according to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a watchdog that monitors Palestinian incitement to terrorism and anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism. Building Islamic terrorists one child at a time.
Click to expand...

Ah, the old rock throwing canard. Israel can't pass that up.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  "P F Tinmore, et al,

Everyone loves a parade.  And the Arab Palestinians love to march around, carrying their signs and shouting their favorite slogans.   We call this the "bandwagon effect." 

*✪ ⇒*  Israel is not afraid of the Arab Palestinians.
*✪ ⇒  *All that is required for peace is that the Arab Palestinians adopt a set of peaceful behaviors; and accept negotiation overtures without any prior stipulations.
*✪ ⇒  *This new violence has little to do with what is right, the original intent to save, protect and preserve the culture of the Jewish People; providing a safe haven so that they might not be expelled from and preyed upon again in the manner and under the manipulated color of law.

•  Fatah Appeal  •
"In addition, a top advisor to Palestinian Authority President Abbas called on Palestinians to start a religious war in response to the Trump declaration.  (*SOURCE:  Brietbart 12/2017*)

Again:  The Hostile Arab Palestinians attempt to escalate the situation towards violence, as s their practice to achieve something which they could not achieve through diplomatic and peaceful means.   The mantra is that "He must be prepared for the armed struggle and ready to sacrifice his wealth and his life in order to win back his homeland and bring about its liberation."  And in the eyes of the Arab Palestinian,  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  (SOURCE:  Palestinian National Charter - 1968)

"[T]he Palestinian Authority and Abbas’ Fatah continuously called on Palestinians to participate in riots and to use violence at the end of 2017."

•  UN Security Council (2005) S/RES/1624  •
Condemning also in the strongest terms the incitement of terrorist acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification (apologie) of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts.

•  General Assembly (1996) A/RES/51/210  •
The States Members of the United Nations reaffirm the importance of ensuring effective cooperation between Member States so that those who have participated in terrorist acts, including their financing, planning or
incitement, are brought to justice;

• General Assembly (1947) A/RES/2/110  •
_Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;​


P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Is Israel So Terrified Of A 16 Year-Old Girl?*
> **


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians, in an aperiodic and irregular manner → arise into a virulent and violent from and protest against the Israelis.  The more often they do this, the more they lose in wealth, power, and blood; and new tender is added for the next flammable future uprising.  They never realize that each time the outcome is even detrimental to the Arab Palestinians in that newer and more stringent security countermeasures will be applied.

But the Arab Palestinians have also provided a valuable tool by which to measure the extend to which the international community will go to develop anti-Israeli sentiment and forge laws and published articles that are aimed to deprive the Jewish people of a place that protects their rights, privileges, or religious immunity.   This one bastion is essential to prevent Mass Explosions  [not only acts like in Bavaria (1919), Austria & Prussia (1843), Sandomir (1712), Russia (1727), and Wurthenburg (1738) just to name a few as examples] but act of antisemitism that were considered totally acceptable:


•  On Dec. 17, 1862, as the Civil War entered its second winter, Gen. Ulysses S. Grant issued the most notorious anti-Jewish official order in American history: “_The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the department within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.”  _Known as General Orders No. 11, the document blamed Jews for the widespread smuggling and cotton speculation that affected the area under Grant’s command.​
The attempt by the Hostile Arab Palestinians to create a dangerous environments and hostile enclaves within the territories, are clear demonstrations of evidence that even greater security precaution need taken suppress the growth of the insurgency.

As long as the Arab Palestinian present themselves as a threat to regional peace and security, they can expect security countermeasures to be employed.  So long as the Arab Palestinians refuse to approach the dispute resolutions processes in good faith, the more they can expect to become marginalized.  The greater the constraints that are necessary to maintain the Article 43 HR requirements, the more stress that will be applied on the economy - and by extension transferred to the general population - the greater the hardship will be for the Arab Palestinians in the territories.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici

The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.  

Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:

"Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of
the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,"

A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> "Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
> people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
> Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of
> the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,"
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.



I’m surprised you don’t understand a simple concept, to wit:

General Assembly opinions are simply that; opinions. 

I’m not at all surprised you are unable to define exactly the culprits who are denying self-determination, sovereignty, independence to the Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians”. It’s pretty stereotypical for people like you cut and paste UN opinions but you’re never able to offer any comment regarding the two, competing Islamic terrorist franchises who are unwilling to relinquish control of their respective portions of the UNRWA welfare fraud program and take any steps to actively seek sovereignty.


----------



## abi

montelatici said:


> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> "Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
> people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
> Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of
> the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,"
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.


Thank-you, interesting and informative.


----------



## Hollie

Aww. It’s so cute when the Hitler Youth wannabes drew up for their Death Cult parades.

A Koran, a bomb belt and a Death Cult mentality. All the ingredients anyone needs for an Arab-Moslem Death Cult. 

'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire'


January 5, 2018

*'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire' *

_Amid tension with the U.S. over President Trump's announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, the Fatah movement – both its leadership and its activists in the field – has also escalated its rhetoric against Israel, with emphasis on encouraging armed struggle (see also MEMRI Special Dispatch No. 7259, __Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence__, January 2, 2018). One expression of this was a mass rally and parade held by Fatah's youth movement in  Bir Zeit University on January 3, 2018, as part of events marking Fatah Day, i.e., the 53rd anniversary of Fatah's founding. The participants in the rally and parade wore military uniforms, and some were masked and wore shrouds and dummy explosive belts. One of the signs they carried bore Yasser Arafat's slogan, "millions of martyrs are marching on Jerusalem."_

_This report presents examples of incitement to armed struggle against Israel, including suicide attacks, at the Fatah Day events in Bir Zeit and in recent posts on Facebook pages affiliated with the movement and its activists._


----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> Aww. It’s so cute when the Hitler Youth wannabes drew up for their Death Cult parades.
> 
> A Koran, a bomb belt and a Death Cult mentality. All the ingredients anyone needs for an Arab-Moslem Death Cult.
> 
> 'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire'
> 
> 
> January 5, 2018
> 
> *'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire' *
> 
> _Amid tension with the U.S. over President Trump's announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, the Fatah movement – both its leadership and its activists in the field – has also escalated its rhetoric against Israel, with emphasis on encouraging armed struggle (see also MEMRI Special Dispatch No. 7259, __Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence__, January 2, 2018). One expression of this was a mass rally and parade held by Fatah's youth movement in  Bir Zeit University on January 3, 2018, as part of events marking Fatah Day, i.e., the 53rd anniversary of Fatah's founding. The participants in the rally and parade wore military uniforms, and some were masked and wore shrouds and dummy explosive belts. One of the signs they carried bore Yasser Arafat's slogan, "millions of martyrs are marching on Jerusalem."_
> 
> _This report presents examples of incitement to armed struggle against Israel, including suicide attacks, at the Fatah Day events in Bir Zeit and in recent posts on Facebook pages affiliated with the movement and its activists._


MEMRI, CAMERA, Elderofzion.com, and other sites you, 60s, MJB, etc. post from are not news sites. They were created solely to spread zionist propaganda.

If you people would vet your sources (even once), you would know this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Emily Ann Shaheen*


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aww. It’s so cute when the Hitler Youth wannabes drew up for their Death Cult parades.
> 
> A Koran, a bomb belt and a Death Cult mentality. All the ingredients anyone needs for an Arab-Moslem Death Cult.
> 
> 'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire'
> 
> 
> January 5, 2018
> 
> *'Fatah Day' At Bir Zeit University: Fatah Youth Activists Wear Dummy Explosive Belts, Threaten Israel With 'Volcano Of Fire' *
> 
> _Amid tension with the U.S. over President Trump's announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, the Fatah movement – both its leadership and its activists in the field – has also escalated its rhetoric against Israel, with emphasis on encouraging armed struggle (see also MEMRI Special Dispatch No. 7259, __Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence__, January 2, 2018). One expression of this was a mass rally and parade held by Fatah's youth movement in  Bir Zeit University on January 3, 2018, as part of events marking Fatah Day, i.e., the 53rd anniversary of Fatah's founding. The participants in the rally and parade wore military uniforms, and some were masked and wore shrouds and dummy explosive belts. One of the signs they carried bore Yasser Arafat's slogan, "millions of martyrs are marching on Jerusalem."_
> 
> _This report presents examples of incitement to armed struggle against Israel, including suicide attacks, at the Fatah Day events in Bir Zeit and in recent posts on Facebook pages affiliated with the movement and its activists._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEMRI, CAMERA, Elderofzion.com, and other sites you, 60s, MJB, etc. post from are not news sites. They were created solely to spread zionist propaganda.
> 
> If you people would vet your sources (even once), you would know this.
Click to expand...


No reason to get infuriated. Your Death Cult has every reason to promote its really dark side.


----------



## Hollie

One of the first rules in the maintenance of the Islamic Death Cult is to invent an external enemy to deflect scrutiny and criticism of the real enemy: the internal islamic oppressor(s).

When brutal, theocratic fear societies look to strengthen themselves internally, a reliable tactic is to whip its citizens into a hateful frenzy over invented external enemies and their internal agents. It works best when it's a full-blown, across the board effort.
*


Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence*

*Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence *

_As the 53rd anniversary of the January 1, 1965 founding of the Fatah movement approached, and in light of increased Palestinian-U.S. tension following President Trump's December 6, 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, Fatah announced that the main slogan for its anniversary would be "The Year of Confrontation [with Israel] and of Defense of the Holy Places."[1]_

_Against this backdrop, the Fatah movement posted numerous posts and tweets on its official social media accounts glorifying its years of armed struggle, with an emphasis on the second intifada, as well as female Fatah members' participation in this struggle, including in suicide attacks. The accounts also posted slogans supporting the armed struggle, calls to bear arms, and portraits of senior movement members imprisoned in Israel. _

_It should be noted that messages advocating violence were also posted recently on the Facebook account of the Fatah branch in Al-Doha village, in the Bethlehem area, that included expressing pride for Fatah members' stabbing attacks and firing of rockets. One of the messages even said that there was room in the country for only a single identity – the Palestinian identity._

_The following are translated examples of these recent posts on Fatah's Facebook and Twitter account._


----------



## abi

Hollie said:


> One of the first rules in the maintenance of the Islamic Death Cult is to invent an external enemy to deflect scrutiny and criticism of the real enemy: the internal islamic oppressor(s).
> 
> When brutal, theocratic fear societies look to strengthen themselves internally, a reliable tactic is to whip its citizens into a hateful frenzy over invented external enemies and their internal agents. It works best when it's a full-blown, across the board effort.
> *
> 
> 
> Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence*
> 
> *Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence *
> 
> _As the 53rd anniversary of the January 1, 1965 founding of the Fatah movement approached, and in light of increased Palestinian-U.S. tension following President Trump's December 6, 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, Fatah announced that the main slogan for its anniversary would be "The Year of Confrontation [with Israel] and of Defense of the Holy Places."[1]_
> 
> _Against this backdrop, the Fatah movement posted numerous posts and tweets on its official social media accounts glorifying its years of armed struggle, with an emphasis on the second intifada, as well as female Fatah members' participation in this struggle, including in suicide attacks. The accounts also posted slogans supporting the armed struggle, calls to bear arms, and portraits of senior movement members imprisoned in Israel. _
> 
> _It should be noted that messages advocating violence were also posted recently on the Facebook account of the Fatah branch in Al-Doha village, in the Bethlehem area, that included expressing pride for Fatah members' stabbing attacks and firing of rockets. One of the messages even said that there was room in the country for only a single identity – the Palestinian identity._
> 
> _The following are translated examples of these recent posts on Fatah's Facebook and Twitter account._


That is from MEMRI again. Vet your sources. This one is designed to keep you in your state of confusion.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the first rules in the maintenance of the Islamic Death Cult is to invent an external enemy to deflect scrutiny and criticism of the real enemy: the internal islamic oppressor(s).
> 
> When brutal, theocratic fear societies look to strengthen themselves internally, a reliable tactic is to whip its citizens into a hateful frenzy over invented external enemies and their internal agents. It works best when it's a full-blown, across the board effort.
> *
> 
> 
> Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence*
> 
> *Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence *
> 
> _As the 53rd anniversary of the January 1, 1965 founding of the Fatah movement approached, and in light of increased Palestinian-U.S. tension following President Trump's December 6, 2017 recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, Fatah announced that the main slogan for its anniversary would be "The Year of Confrontation [with Israel] and of Defense of the Holy Places."[1]_
> 
> _Against this backdrop, the Fatah movement posted numerous posts and tweets on its official social media accounts glorifying its years of armed struggle, with an emphasis on the second intifada, as well as female Fatah members' participation in this struggle, including in suicide attacks. The accounts also posted slogans supporting the armed struggle, calls to bear arms, and portraits of senior movement members imprisoned in Israel. _
> 
> _It should be noted that messages advocating violence were also posted recently on the Facebook account of the Fatah branch in Al-Doha village, in the Bethlehem area, that included expressing pride for Fatah members' stabbing attacks and firing of rockets. One of the messages even said that there was room in the country for only a single identity – the Palestinian identity._
> 
> _The following are translated examples of these recent posts on Fatah's Facebook and Twitter account._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is from MEMRI again. Vet your sources. This one is designed to keep you in your state of confusion.
Click to expand...


You’re getting infuriated because I’m linking to the dark places you dwell in?


----------



## Hollie

Yes. "education and culture" of the Islamic terrorist brand.

Suicide in the name of the islamo-Death Cult is not suicide, its "martyrdom". While Moslems have not invented the idea of suicide/mass murder, they have donated to humanity the sprawling, ideological notion of “martyrdom" defined as the wholesale slaughtering of humans who are either the "wrong kind" of moslems or those who, for other reasons, just plain deserve to die. Suicide bombings, strapping explosives on children, etc., etc. it’s all a part of the Death Cult history that has come to define Islamism.


*


Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence

Praise For Female Fatah Suicide Bombers* 

In recent days, Fatah has posted various posters and banners on its official Facebook page and Twitter accounts to mark the 53rd anniversary of its activity. Notable among these were posters bearing the portraits of female Fatah members who carried out suicide attacks in Jerusalem. Among these was a portrait of Wafa Idris, the first female Palestinian suicide bomber; she was from the Al-Am'ari refugee camp on the outskirts of Ramallah and, on January 27, 2002, carried out a suicide attack on Jerusalem's Jaffa Road for which Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, claimed responsibility.

Also published were posters bearing the portraits of other female Fatah members who had perpetrated suicide bombings in Jerusalem: Ayat Al-Akhras, who carried out March 2002 supermarket attack; 'Andaleeb Taqataqa, who carried out the April 2002 Mahane Yehuda market attack, and Zainab Abu-Salem, who carried out the September 2004 French Hill junction attack.

Other posts included photos of other female Fatah operatives who had carried out attacks prior to the Oslo Agreements, such as Dalal Al-Mughrabi, deputy commander of the Fatah squad that carried out the 1978 Coastal Road attack in Israel in which 38 Israelis were killed and 71 wounded. Al-Mughrabi is a Palestinian icon; official events commemorating her are organized by the PA, and public buildings are named for her.[2]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  montelatici,  et al,

REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].



montelatici said:


> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.


*(HISTORY)*

"The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."

*(COMMENT)*

•  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)

•  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.

•  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.” 

•  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.

Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty. 

There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.

One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.

Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici,  et al,
> 
> REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(HISTORY)*
> 
> "The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)
> 
> •  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.
> 
> •  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
> of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.”
> 
> •  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
> Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.
> 
> Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty.
> 
> There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.
> 
> One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.
> 
> Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
> The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.


----------



## Indeependent

abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici,  et al,
> 
> REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(HISTORY)*
> 
> "The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)
> 
> •  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.
> 
> •  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
> of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.”
> 
> •  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
> Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.
> 
> Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty.
> 
> There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.
> 
> One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.
> 
> Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
> The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
Click to expand...

Genesis, Chapter 10...you believed in it until it defeated your argument.
But now I'm on your side as I'm in a giddy, "make fun of Babbly" mood.


----------



## Hollie

abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici,  et al,
> 
> REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(HISTORY)*
> 
> "The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)
> 
> •  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.
> 
> •  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
> of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.”
> 
> •  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
> Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.
> 
> Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty.
> 
> There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.
> 
> One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.
> 
> Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
> The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
Click to expand...


There is no reason to believe the Jewish people ever abandoned the territory. 

Yeah, that’s awkward for you, no?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ montelatici, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The Map says "Lebanon" and not the "Lebanese Republic."

The Map says "Syria" and not the "Syrian Arab Republic.

The Map says "Trans-Jordan" and not the "Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan."

The Map says "Egypt" and I'm really not sure if it was the "Arab Republic of Egypt" yet, or still the "British Protectorate of Egypt.

AND IN 1947, the technical /political name of the place called "Palestine" was the territory to which the Mandate of Palestine applied; herein after called Palestine.  As you have read, no doubt, Palestine was a legal entity, but it is not a sovereign state.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ montelatici, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Map says "Lebanon" and not the "Lebanese Republic."
> 
> The Map says "Syria" and not the "Syrian Arab Republic.
> 
> The Map says "Trans-Jordan" and not the "Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan."
> 
> The Map says "Egypt" and I'm really not sure if it was the "Arab Republic of Egypt" yet, or still the "British Protectorate of Egypt.
> 
> AND IN 1947, the technical /political name of the place called "Palestine" was the territory to which the Mandate of Palestine applied; herein after called Palestine.  As you have read, no doubt, Palestine was a legal entity, but it is not a sovereign state.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle refereed to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  abi,  et al,



abi said:


> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.



I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.

The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.

Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.

v/r
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  abi,  et al,



abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
Click to expand...


Don't confuse land ownership (civil real estate concept) and sovereignty (a political concept).

v/r
R


----------



## abi

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't confuse land ownership (civil real estate concept) and sovereignty (a political concept).
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

I havn't, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici,  et al,
> 
> REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(HISTORY)*
> 
> "The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)
> 
> •  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.
> 
> •  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
> of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.”
> 
> •  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
> Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.
> 
> Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty.
> 
> There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.
> 
> One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.
> 
> Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
> The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel)




That is why it is called *occupied Palestinian territory.*

You are always grasping at straws and bending history.


----------



## Shusha

abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
Click to expand...


Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?


----------



## P F Tinmore

abi said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  montelatici,  et al,
> 
> REMEMBER:  •  A/RES/37/43  •  was written in 1982 → eight years after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference (1974) declared the Palestine Liberation Organization ( the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.  And A/RES/37/43 → was written six years before  the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan cut all ties to the West Bank and Jerusalem (July 1988), an move by an Arab League member hat stripped the inhabitants of their Jordanian citizenship.  A move that abandon the territory into the hands of the only effective control (Israel) → and an action that happened six years before the PLO Declared Independence [A/43/827 - S/20278 (November 1988)].
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians will resist the hostile military occupiers/colonists as all native people have throughout history.
> 
> Surprised you would mention UN Res. 43, to wit:
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> The vast majority of the world knows that the Israelis are the hostiles.
> 
> 
> 
> *(HISTORY)*
> 
> "The *Jewish Agency accepted* the resolution despite its dissatisfaction over such matters as Jewish emigration from Europe and the territorial limits set on the proposed Jewish State. The *plan was not accepted by the Palestinian Arabs and Arab States* on the ground that it violated the provisions of the United Nations Charter, which granted people the right to decide their own destiny."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  After the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), what was a low level intensity civil conflict which started in mid-1946 was followed by an greater intensity in the conflict of Palestine.  (Question of Palestine)
> 
> •  In February 1948, the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) threaten open warfare if the UN did not do its bend to the will of the AHC and do its bidding. (A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948)  On the implementation of the Jewish acceptance portion, the Arab League launch a coordinated attack from four directions.  It was not an idle threat.
> 
> •  On or about 10pm 16 May 1967, the Commanding General (CG) and Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces
> of the United Arab Republic ordered General Rikhye [CG UN Emergency Forces (UNEF)] maintaining the buffer zone between Israeli Forces and the Egyptian Forces on the Sinai Frontier, to withdraw the UN Forces.  The purpose of the UNEF was to prevent a recurrence of armed conflict between the two forces.  (A/6730 & Add.1-3 & A/6730/Add.3/Corr.1 26 June 1967)  "The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." _- Cairo Radio_ Next day (17 May) Cairo Radio:  “All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel.”
> 
> •  28 May:  “We will not accept any…coexistence with Israel.…Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel….The war with Israel is in effect since 1948”._ - Gamel Abdel Nasser  press conference _​
> Each threat was credible, and each threat came with an act in the furtherance of the conflict.
> 
> Form the very beginning of the Jewish State of Israel, the Israelis have had to face the opposition with few allies.  This is the story of the trek behind the Jewish People.  Until the establishment of the Jewish National Home, there has been no real safe place in which to retreat.  Now there is.  And it is unlikely that given, they would never survive if they were placed under the protection of the Arab League neighboring nations, that the Israelis would every give-up their hard earned sovereignty.
> 
> There are ≈ *340 million* people in the Arab League; while there are only 3+ million Israelis.  The Muslim nations of the Region have been opposed to the concept of the Jewish National Home for more than a century.  And there are very few countries in Europe that has not used royal decrees and crafted legislation for laws to persecute and exploit the Jewish People.  No one wants to go back to that scenario.
> 
> One final note:  This has been said many times and in many different ways, but has always reflected the sentiment of the Arab world of the region.
> 
> Khartoum Resolution of 1967:  This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, *no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations* with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
> The Arab Palestinians still maintain that philosophy.  And this as long as they adhere to that philosophy, they will be whittled away, piece by agonizing piece; in the tormented hope that they will someday be a real nation.  What are the odds?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that the Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
Click to expand...

Now we are getting down to the basics.

But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.

The People's Sovereignty​
If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A cultural oasis in the besieged Gaza Strip: Support the ‘Edward Said Public Library’*

Those of us denouncing the decade-long siege on the Gaza Strip can help alleviate its impact, even as we continue to organize to bring an end to it.  One way we can do this is by supporting the Edward Said Public Library, an oasis of escape, creativity, and cheerfulness in an otherwise gloomy environment.

The Edward Said Public Library
is the brainchild of 25-year old Mosab Abu Toha, an avid reader, book-lover, and graduate of the English Department at the Islamic University of Gaza.  The university was hit by a missile during Israel’s 2014 assault, which killed thousands of innocent civilians and further devastated the besieged strip’s infrastructure.  Abu Toha’s own house was also hit during the war, and his small library was destroyed.  Friends pitched in, offering replacements for Abu Toha’s books, and as more books came in, he thought about opening a public library, so as others could benefit from the generous donations.  

A cultural oasis in the besieged Gaza Strip: Support the ‘Edward Said Public Library’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi's 15 YO cousin shot in the face.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
Click to expand...



Sure. Let's say I agree with you. 

Neither have the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  abi,  et al,
> 
> I will let you look up the term "terra nullis" and then how it applies to the West Bank.
> 
> The mere act of discovery by one state is not enough to confer a title by occupation. There are two requirements (i) the territory subject to claim must not be under the sovereignty of nay state ( terra nullius) (ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.
> 
> Jordan abandon and Israel was in effective control.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
Click to expand...


The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.  

Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
Click to expand...

I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi's 15 YO cousin shot in the face.



I'm not sure it isn't an inner conflict  between clans, Did the Tamimis already sue anyone or present any proof?

*A clan war in the Bedouin settlement of Aruer*
Two wounded gunshots and four wounded from stone-throwing were evacuated from the center of the Bedouin settlement of Aruer in the Negev, which became a battleground after the outbreak of a clan war.


*1 DEAD, 6 APARTMENTS BURNED IN J'LEM CLASH OF CLANS*
 *22-year-old man dies in hospital after being stabbed in a conflict between two family clans; six apartments, cars burned in fire.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.
Click to expand...


That’s really ignorant. There can be no accommodation with an intransigent Death Cult that holds to a charter requiring the Jews be driven into the sea by machinegun fire.  The treatment of Jews, Christians, and other non-Moslems under islamist rule was always as inferior to islamism and discrimination, oppression, even mass murders and other atrocities occurred.

Israel's capture in 1967 of Sinai, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights was in response to Arab agression. Israel voluntarily returned of all Sinai to Egypt following formal recognition and peace treaty with that nation.

The lesson you have been given is the willingness of Israel to return land for peace with her neighbors. This underlies all treaties and actions (even the unilateral withdrawals from south Lebanon and from Gaza) that followed ftom 1982 to the present day. As was expected, Gaza was quickly transformed into just another Islamic terrorist enclave.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi's 15 YO cousin shot in the face.




Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

14 YO girl released from Israeli prison.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

It is NOT about whether or not te Palestinians abandon the territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> Oh, you say that if a people abandon a territory it is no longer theirs. I keep seeing the zionists argue the opposite which is weird.


Not to mention that the Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

The term _"terra nullius"_ is talking about sovereign powers.  The Palestinians were not a sovereign power.

There are two requirements: 

(i) the territory subject to claim *must not be under the sovereignty of nay state* ( terra nullius) 
(ii) the state must have effectively occupied the territory.​
I never stated that the Palestinians abandon the territory.  I stated that the Jordanians abandoned the territory on 31 July 1988 when the King cut all ties.

This is yet just another example of how you alter and twist the discussion.

Sovereignty is not always in the hands of the people.  Until 31 July 1988, the sovereign power over the West Bank and Jerusalem was the King of Jordan.

Without regard to your interpretation of "rights," the fact is, the Palestinians --- on 31 July 1988 --- had not territory over which they were sovereign.  That was the reality.  In fact, it is a question as to whether Palestinians hold sovereignty over anything yet; with the possibe exception of Area "A."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Tinmore,  et al,

No, this is not the case at all.  This is not even Customary Law.

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 19002154, member: 21837"
Now we are getting down to the basics.

But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.

The People's Sovereignty​
If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

In an ideal society, this might be accomplished.  But in states like the Russian Federation, the People's Republic of China, and any Arab Kingdom, this would be a fallacy; and maybe even traitorous.

In some Heads of State (the sovereign) has had to form a new governments.  This is not unheard of in many cultures.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I never stated that the Palestinians abandon the territory. I stated that the Jordanians abandoned the territory on 31 July 1988 when the King cut all ties.


It was never Jordanian territory. The world rejected Jordan's claim to annex occupied territory which is illegal.

You base your conclusions on false premise. *Again.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> No, this is not the case at all.  This is not even Customary Law.
> 
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 19002154, member: 21837"
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

In an ideal society, this might be accomplished.  But in states like the Russian Federation, the People's Republic of China, and any Arab Kingdom, this would be a fallacy; and maybe even traitorous.

In some Heads of State (the sovereign) has had to form a new governments.  This is not unheard of in many cultures.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Nice deflection. We should not determine rights by pointing at the lowest examples.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Shusha, P F Tinmore,  et al,

This is foolish.



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What out friend "Tinmore" is trying to describe and apply is a "democracy."    Sovereignty is about "supreme power or authority," and the the form of government.

*1. A Definition of Sovereignty* 
_First published Sat May 31, 2003; substantive revision Fri Mar 25, 2016, Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy_

The evolution that Kantorowicz described is formative, for sovereignty is a signature feature of modern politics. Some scholars have doubted whether a stable, essential notion of sovereignty exists. But there is in fact a definition that captures what sovereignty came to mean in early modern Europe and of which most subsequent definitions are a variant: _supreme authority within a territory_. This is the quality that early modern states possessed, but which popes, emperors, kings, bishops, and most nobles and vassals during the Middle Ages lacked.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Shusha, P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This is foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What out friend "Tinmore" is trying to describe and apply is a "democracy."    Sovereignty is about "supreme power or authority," and the the form of government.
> 
> *1. A Definition of Sovereignty*
> _First published Sat May 31, 2003; substantive revision Fri Mar 25, 2016, Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy_
> 
> The evolution that Kantorowicz described is formative, for sovereignty is a signature feature of modern politics. Some scholars have doubted whether a stable, essential notion of sovereignty exists. But there is in fact a definition that captures what sovereignty came to mean in early modern Europe and of which most subsequent definitions are a variant: _supreme authority within a territory_. This is the quality that early modern states possessed, but which popes, emperors, kings, bishops, and most nobles and vassals during the Middle Ages lacked.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Popular sovereignty is the legal ideal. Unfortunately virtually every country, including the US, is some form of oligarchy.

We need to fight against that accepted norm.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ Tinmore, et al,

Who says, were does it say, that recognition is "required.?"



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never stated that the Palestinians abandon the territory. I stated that the Jordanians abandoned the territory on 31 July 1988 when the King cut all ties.
> 
> 
> 
> It was never Jordanian territory. The world rejected Jordan's claim to annex occupied territory which is illegal.
> 
> You base your conclusions on false premise. *Again.*
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

On 24 April 1950, the Jordan House of Deputies and House of Notables, in a joint session, adopted a Resolution formally annexing the West Bank and Jerusalem.

*ARTICLE 3  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

*ARTICLE 6  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.

*ARTICLE 7  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​Whether or not the world recognizes it, is irrelevant.  Recognition does not change the reality.  In the time between 1950 and 1988, the people of the West Bank were Jordanian Citizens.  And if other nations accepted a Passport of a West Bank Jordanian citizen, taht state would have applied tacit approval.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, if a sovereign abandons a territory, it is "no longer theirs".  I'm not convinced that a people, especially an indigenous people, can abandon a territory.  Can you give an example?  One that does not involve conquest, invasion and colonization?
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.
Click to expand...



And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews. 

The Jewish people have always accepted a divided territory. It has been the Arabs who consistently declined. 

It's the Arabs who continually demand "end the occupation of 1948".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> The Jewish people have always accepted a divided territory. It has been the Arabs who consistently declined.
> 
> It's the Arabs who continually demand "end the occupation of 1948".
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.


Nice deflection. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Who says, were does it say, that recognition is "required.?"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never stated that the Palestinians abandon the territory. I stated that the Jordanians abandoned the territory on 31 July 1988 when the King cut all ties.
> 
> 
> 
> It was never Jordanian territory. The world rejected Jordan's claim to annex occupied territory which is illegal.
> 
> You base your conclusions on false premise. *Again.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On 24 April 1950, the Jordan House of Deputies and House of Notables, in a joint session, adopted a Resolution formally annexing the West Bank and Jerusalem.
> 
> *ARTICLE 3  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> *ARTICLE 6  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
> The recognition of a state merely signifies that the state which recognizes it accepts the personality of the other with all the rights and duties determined by international law. Recognition is unconditional and irrevocable.
> 
> *ARTICLE 7  Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
> The recognition of a state may be express or tacit. The latter results from any act which implies the intention of recognizing the new state.​Whether or not the world recognizes it, is irrelevant.  Recognition does not change the reality.  In the time between 1950 and 1988, the people of the West Bank were Jordanian Citizens.  And if other nations accepted a Passport of a West Bank Jordanian citizen, taht state would have applied tacit approval.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The rights of a state are within their own territories. The annexation of occupied territory is extra territorial.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...


Give me a break.  The Arab collective was working together at the time.  And they certainly had to do with all Jews kicked out of Arab "Palestine".  

But speaking of deflection, why don't we deal with today.  If you truly believe in BOTH as you claim, why hasn't the territory already been divided?  Who is holding that up?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting down to the basics.
> 
> But true sovereignty belongs to the people, who in turn delegate it to their governments.
> 
> The People's Sovereignty​
> If a government relinquishes that sovereignty it reverts back to the people for they are the true sovereigns. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty over occupied territory. The Palestinians have never relinquished sovereignty over Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> The Jewish people have always accepted a divided territory. It has been the Arabs who consistently declined.
> 
> It's the Arabs who continually demand "end the occupation of 1948".
Click to expand...


The Palestinians kicked no one out.  The Palestinians rejected to have a third of their people relegated to Jew rule.  If  a third of the Jews had been relegated to Palestinian rule, the Jews would have rejected partition as well.  You are so conditioned you can't see the truth.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. Let's say I agree with you.
> 
> Neither have the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have been pushing for their rights for a hundred years. Where have the Jews been for the last couple thousand years? Not even the Jews living there mentioned sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine have been pushing for ALL the rights for a hundred years and denying the identical rights of the Jewish people.  The Jewish people have been also pushing for their rights for a hundred years.
> 
> Why do you have so much trouble with BOTH?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't. It is the Zionists who want exclusive rights. Remember, it was the Zionists who kicked out 750,000 Palestinians in 1948 and continue to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> The Jewish people have always accepted a divided territory. It has been the Arabs who consistently declined.
> 
> It's the Arabs who continually demand "end the occupation of 1948".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians kicked no one out.  The Palestinians rejected to have a third of their people relegated to Jew rule.  If  a third of the Jews had been relegated to Palestinian rule, the Jews would have rejected partition as well.  You are so conditioned you can't see the truth.
Click to expand...


Really?  So its the Arabs living in Israel today that are the obstacle to peace because "Jew rule"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *ARTICLE 3 Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,


CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Karma Nabulsi*

'A Real Education: Learning from Anti-Colonial Struggles'


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give me a break.  The Arab collective was working together at the time.  And they certainly had to do with all Jews kicked out of Arab "Palestine".
> 
> But speaking of deflection, why don't we deal with today.  If you truly believe in BOTH as you claim, why hasn't the territory already been divided?  Who is holding that up?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> why hasn't the territory already been divided? Who is holding that up?


It is not "the territory" it is Palestine. It is the Palestinians who have the right to decide if they want to divide their country or not. They chose the same as any other people would.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Arabs kicked out 900,000 Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give me a break.  The Arab collective was working together at the time.  And they certainly had to do with all Jews kicked out of Arab "Palestine".
> 
> But speaking of deflection, why don't we deal with today.  If you truly believe in BOTH as you claim, why hasn't the territory already been divided?  Who is holding that up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> why hasn't the territory already been divided? Who is holding that up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not "the territory" it is Palestine. It is the Palestinians who have the right to decide if they want to divide their country or not. They chose the same as any other people would.
Click to expand...


How quickly the "I support both peoples" turns out to be a fat hairy lie. 

BOTH types of Palestinians want self-determination.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'P Is for Palestine': A controversial Sunday story time *

It was a perfect Sunday activity for toddlers: story time, followed by games and food.


And while the kids assembled at the Children’s Community School of West Philadelphia were all about the Cheddar Bunnies and mini-jungle gym, for the parents it was a celebration of inclusion and resistance.

P Is for Palestine, written by Iranian-born Golbarg Bashi, an instructor of Middle Eastern Studies at Rutgers University, was chosen as much for the colorful photos and rhymes as it was for the controversy it has created.

“We are trying to figure out how to respond to the negative publicity,” Alissa Wise, 38, a rabbi and deputy director at the Jewish Voice for Peace. She organized the small group of about 20 preschoolers and their parents who gathered for the Sunday activity.

It wasn’t “A is for Arabic, my tongue, a language that’s the 4th biggest ever sung” or even that “B is for *Bethlehem*,” or “C is for *Christmas,*” that stirred the controversy. It was “I is for *Intifada*, Intifada is Arabic for rising up for what is right, if you are a kid or grownup!”

'P Is for Palestine': A controversial Sunday story time


----------



## Hollie

“D” is for *Death Cult*”

Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence


Emphasizing The Armed Struggle Against Israel And Inciting To Violence

In addition, the official Fatah Facebook and Twitter accounts published messages supporting the armed struggle. Thus, for example, on its Twitter account, it posted a tweet with a quote by Yasser Arafat: "Oh fighters, a stronger grip on the rifle's steel will bring victory. The decision is in your hands, and the future and victory belong to you."[3]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## Hollie

There is no misconception about Islamist ideology.


Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence


Fatah Branch's Facebook Page: Inciting Terror Attacks, Denying Recognition Of Israel's Right To Exist

Additional messages inciting to violence were also posted in recent weeks on the Facebook page of the Fatah branch in Al-Doha village, in the Bethlehem area, following President Trump's announcement of recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Thus, for example, on December 18, 2017, the page posted an image of a gunman along with the Fatah movement's emblem, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades insignia, and a map of greater Palestine. The caption states that these borders are "the only red line."[4]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinemore, _et al,_

Yes ••• We've all seen this before.  This is a very lame attempt by the Egyptians to have a Proxy to make a claim.  The "All Palestine Government" (APG) was decommissioned in 1959 by the Egyptian Government.

This was proclaimed about 4 months after the May 1948 Provisional Israeli Government announced, immediately upon the termination of the Mandate, on 15 May 1948, its independence.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 3 Convention on Rights and Duties of States*
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,
> 
> 
> 
> CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
> ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
> CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

AND, as you've all no doubt seen, the May 1948 Questions on Palestine (S-766 22 May 1948) that were answered, made during the hostile engagement with the Forces of the Arab League and before the UN Negotiated Armistice. 

You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.  You should also notice that the Armistice Lines were not true and final borders.  That these lines could change and the change reflected in the Peace Agreement.  

Finally, as everyone in the discussion knows, that the Peace Treaty between the countries of Egypt and Jordan • with Israel established the borders which are relevant to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This was proclaimed about 4 months after the May 1948 Provisional Israeli Government announced, immediately upon the termination of the Mandate, on 15 May 1948, its independence.


So?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.


They were not a party to the war.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The Palestinians have no right to claim that which is already in the hands of Israeli Sovereignty.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was proclaimed about 4 months after the May 1948 Provisional Israeli Government announced, immediately upon the termination of the Mandate, on 15 May 1948, its independence.
> 
> 
> 
> So?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•  The Arab Palestinians have right, freedom or permission to do something _(establish independence and sovereignty)_ and there are _no obligations_ on the part of the Israelis to facilitate that right or not do anything in the furtherance of that right.

•  The Arab Palestinian have no right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ which compels the Israelis to relinquish anything that is within their right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ or enforce an action as a necessary forfeiture to of their rights.

•  The Arab Palestinians have no right that is absolute.  To say that Arab Palestinians have a right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ is to say that the Arab Palestinians have _no duty not_ to do the same _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_.​
The Israelis declared "independence and sovereignty" before the "Arab Palestinian."  The Israelis made a declaration covering the a portion of the territory previous under the Mandate.  The Arab Palestinians come forth afterwards and make the same claim and  right _("independence and sovereignty")_  to the entirety of the territory previous under the Mandate.

Just because the Arab Palestinian makes a claim and can find a right which is associated with the claim, does not mean that any other nation or state have and obligation to take actin and to relinquish something that helps further that claim.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Exactly!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission. 

In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...

"The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Palestinians have no right to claim that which is already in the hands of Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was proclaimed about 4 months after the May 1948 Provisional Israeli Government announced, immediately upon the termination of the Mandate, on 15 May 1948, its independence.
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians have right, freedom or permission to do something _(establish independence and sovereignty)_ and there are _no obligations_ on the part of the Israelis to facilitate that right or not do anything in the furtherance of that right.
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinian have no right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ which compels the Israelis to relinquish anything that is within their right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ or enforce an action as a necessary forfeiture to of their rights.
> 
> •  The Arab Palestinians have no right that is absolute.  To say that Arab Palestinians have a right _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_ is to say that the Arab Palestinians have _no duty not_ to do the same _(to establish independence and sovereignty)_.​
> The Israelis declared "independence and sovereignty" before the "Arab Palestinian."  The Israelis made a declaration covering the a portion of the territory previous under the Mandate.  The Arab Palestinians come forth afterwards and make the same claim and  right _("independence and sovereignty")_  to the entirety of the territory previous under the Mandate.
> 
> Just because the Arab Palestinian makes a claim and can find a right which is associated with the claim, does not mean that any other nation or state have and obligation to take actin and to relinquish something that helps further that claim.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Israelis made a declaration covering the a portion of the territory previous under the Mandate.


Here is where you are deep into Israeli propaganda shit. That there was no Palestine. That the Mandate was Palestine. That when the Mandate left Palestine the territory was up for grabs.

I would like to see a 1948 map of Israel within its defined territory so we can see where the Palestinian's declaration encroaches on Israel's defined territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.

Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.

It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
Click to expand...


So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
Did they negotiate with anyone else?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
Click to expand...



Israel is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreements for the same reason Palestine is not mentioned in the Lausanne Treaty--its presence is assumed.  The word "Israeli" is mentioned in the Agreements though.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not mentioned in the Armistice Agreements for the same reason Palestine is not mentioned in the Lausanne Treaty--its presence is assumed.  The word "Israeli" is mentioned in the Agreements though.
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> The word "Israeli" is mentioned in the Agreements though.


Indeed, Israeli but not Israel.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?
Click to expand...


I guess in Your vision its' only Israel fault that neither Jordan nor Egypt effectively recognized  Palestinian rule over the land. Not when Egypt or Jordan ruled over the lands neither when they negotiated with Israel.
There was solidarity but they didn't take them in account as players to negotiate with.

It's like if Israel is going to negotiate with Syria, they won't go to the Druze community to sign treaties over the existing sovereign govt. No matter how close the Druze plight might be to the Israelis.
They're just not a player on a governmental-state level, neither were the Palestinian parties who used big words and declarations but had little relevancy to the situation or effective organization.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a load of crap.  All four Armistice Agreements were by country and between states.  It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate, but rest assured, the Armistice Lines are between Israel and the four Principle Aggressor Nations of the Arab League.



P F Tinmore said:


> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.


*(REFERENCE)*

•  02/23/1949 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



S/1264/Corr.1 Egypt-Israel General Armistice Agreement

For the President of the Security Council:

 “I have the honour to inform you that an armistice agreement
 between Egypt and Israel has been signed this morning, 24 February at Rhodes.

 The text of the agreement is as follows:​•  03/23/1949 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


S/1296 Israel-Lebanon General Armistice Agreement

For the President of the Security Council:

  “I have honour to inform the Security Council that a general armistice agreement, in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of sixteen November 1948, was signed by the delegations of Israel and Lebanon at Ras En Naqura on twentythree March 1949. The text of the agreement is as follows:

•  LEBANESE-ISRAELI GENERAL ARMISTICE AGREEMENT  •​•  04/03/1949 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


S/1302/Rev.1 Israel-Jordan General Armistice Agreement - Cablegram from UN Acting Mediator, Map (Green Line)

_For the President of the Security Council_

 I have the honour to inform you that an armistice agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel has been signed this evening, 3 April 1949, at Rhodes. The text of the agreement follows.​•  07/20/1949 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


S/1353 Israel-Syria General Armistice Agreement

For the President of the Security Council:

 “I have the honour to inform the Security Council that a General Armistice Agreement, in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948, was signed by the delegations of Israel and Syria at Hill 232, near Mahanayim on 20 July 1949. The text of the Agreement is as follows:​*BTW:  Armistice Lines are not "Permanent International Boundaries.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​•  Similarly, the *Peace Treaty Boundaries* (relevant to the West Bank) spells it out plainly:

Article 3(1) The *international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate* as is shown in Annex I (a).​
•  Again, in similar fashion, the *Peace Treaty Boundaries* (relevant to the Gaza Strip) spells out plainly:

Article II  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the *recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine*.​*(COMMENT)*

I think that much of this nonsense about the 1948 nation or state called Palestine is merely a purposeful intent to make people think that there was actually an unspoken nation.  Which there was not.

There was no mistake then (1948/1949), there was no mistake in November 1988 when the PLO Declared Independence, and there is certainly no mistake or subterfuge today.  _(Although the scope, nature and degree of sovereignty is really up in the air.)_

As you have put it: "Palestine's international borders," is indeterminate and certainly used to confuse the issue for propaganda purposes.  Certainly, it has no legs to stand upon.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that four separate Armistice Agreements were made; not including a separate agreement with the APG.
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess in Your vision its' only Israel fault that neither Jordan nor Egypt effectively recognized  Palestinian rule over the land. Not when Egypt or Jordan ruled over the lands neither when they negotiated with Israel.
> There was solidarity but they didn't take them in account as players to negotiate with.
> 
> It's like if Israel is going to negotiate with Syria, they won't go to the Druze community to sign treaties over the existing sovereign govt. No matter how close the Druze plight might be to the Israelis.
> They're just not a player on a governmental-state level, neither were the Palestinian parties who used big words and declarations but had little relevancy to the situation or effective organization.
Click to expand...

It was Britain who appointed the government in Jordan. The Zionists promised Jordan three million a year for five years and the West Bank if they would not attack Israel in the war Israel was planning to start in 1948.

Egypt, on the other hand, never intended to annex Gaza. Egypt assisted the Palestinians in establishing a government who declared independence in 1948.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There was no "negotiation" at all.  The abandonment was a unilaterial decision on the part of the Hashemite King.



rylah said:


> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?


*(COMMENT)*

The official history site for Jordan calls it the "*Disengagement from the West Bank*:"  "Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank."

•  07/31/1988

*Dismantling legal and administrative links with West Bank* - King Hussein of Jordan address to the nation - Non-UN document

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,


There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There was no "negotiation" at all.  The abandonment was a unilaterial decision on the part of the Hashemite King.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The official history site for Jordan calls it the "*Disengagement from the West Bank*:"  "Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank."
> 
> •  07/31/1988
> 
> *Dismantling legal and administrative links with West Bank* - King Hussein of Jordan address to the nation - Non-UN document
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK???


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.
Click to expand...


Indeed, It seems you're still clinging to some invention of your alleged "State of Pal'istan". 

Yes, there was the geographic area called "Palestine".


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were not a party to the war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess in Your vision its' only Israel fault that neither Jordan nor Egypt effectively recognized  Palestinian rule over the land. Not when Egypt or Jordan ruled over the lands neither when they negotiated with Israel.
> There was solidarity but they didn't take them in account as players to negotiate with.
> 
> It's like if Israel is going to negotiate with Syria, they won't go to the Druze community to sign treaties over the existing sovereign govt. No matter how close the Druze plight might be to the Israelis.
> They're just not a player on a governmental-state level, neither were the Palestinian parties who used big words and declarations but had little relevancy to the situation or effective organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was Britain who appointed the government in Jordan. The Zionists promised Jordan three million a year for five years and the West Bank if they would not attack Israel in the war Israel was planning to start in 1948.
> 
> Egypt, on the other hand, never intended to annex Gaza. Egypt assisted the Palestinians in establishing a government who declared independence in 1948.
Click to expand...


The same "all Palestine" office that eventually proclaimed the King of Jordan as King of Palestine?
Just another example of how they tried to enlarge the borders of Arabian dynasties under the pretense of self determination.

Even the Syrians called upon that decision as conflicting the propagated notion of independence.
Arabs in Palestine ceded the land to foreign Arabian kings twice.


----------



## RoccoR

RE::  Palestine Today
※→   et al,

This is just another Palestinian head *Three-card Monte *games with the word salad. 



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, It seems you're still clinging to some invention of your alleged "State of Pal'istan".
> 
> Yes, there was the geographic area called "Palestine".
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The language use by me, and most governments, and certainly the UN is what is equivalently used in the treaties:

PART I.




PRELIMINARY.
Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."



The limits of this Order are the *territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies*, hereinafter described as Palestine.

The confusion is the difference between the Mandatory and the Mandate.

The term "Mandatory" → which is (what you ≈ said) trust government selected by the said Allied Powers in the matter of administration in the territory of Palestine.  The Mandate is an obligation and authority given to the Mandatory to carry-out certain responsibilities; one of which was the responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They were not a party to the Armistice because they were not a sovereign party.  An Armistice Agreement falls under Article 2 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:  "Vienna Convention Law Treaties" an international agreement concluded *between States* in written form and governed by international law.  The Arab Palestinians rejected all offers to participate in the self-governing processes.  The one most applicable was the offer to participate with the UN Palestine Commission.
> 
> In any event, it was previously agreed that once Permanent Peace arrangements were put in place → the Armistice Agreements would dissolve...
> 
> "The Armistice shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that the Armistice Agreements mention Palestine many times but never mentioned a place called Israel.
> 
> Palestine's international borders are mentioned but no borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> It was like a place called Israel did not exist but Palestine did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they negotiated with the only effective sovereign govt of Palestine - Israeli govt.
> Did they negotiate with anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess in Your vision its' only Israel fault that neither Jordan nor Egypt effectively recognized  Palestinian rule over the land. Not when Egypt or Jordan ruled over the lands neither when they negotiated with Israel.
> There was solidarity but they didn't take them in account as players to negotiate with.
> 
> It's like if Israel is going to negotiate with Syria, they won't go to the Druze community to sign treaties over the existing sovereign govt. No matter how close the Druze plight might be to the Israelis.
> They're just not a player on a governmental-state level, neither were the Palestinian parties who used big words and declarations but had little relevancy to the situation or effective organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was Britain who appointed the government in Jordan. The Zionists promised Jordan three million a year for five years and the West Bank if they would not attack Israel in the war Israel was planning to start in 1948.
> 
> Egypt, on the other hand, never intended to annex Gaza. Egypt assisted the Palestinians in establishing a government who declared independence in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same "all Palestine" office that eventually proclaimed the King of Jordan as King of Palestine?
> Just another example of how they tried to enlarge the borders of Arabian dynasties under the pretense of self determination.
> 
> Even the Syrians called upon that decision as conflicting the propagated notion of independence.
> Arabs in Palestine ceded the land to foreign Arabian kings twice.
Click to expand...


In my view it shows how Arabs in Palestine view themselves, and which rule is preferred to be installed over the land.

This is why notions such as Emirate/s or city states, where such dynamics of social structure are respected can be more effective in answering the needs of such rooted culture.

This works best in Arabia and the Gulf, can work as well in Gaza - just don't pretend to be fighting for Democracy.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.
Click to expand...


And the sovereign of "Palestine" was the government which formed to bring about the National Homeland for the Jewish people.  The sovereign of "Palestine" renamed the State, Israel.  Same place.  You keep wanting there to be a State with no sovereign.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE::  Palestine Today
> ※→   et al,
> 
> This is just another Palestinian head *Three-card Monte *games with the word salad.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, It seems you're still clinging to some invention of your alleged "State of Pal'istan".
> 
> Yes, there was the geographic area called "Palestine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The language use by me, and most governments, and certainly the UN is what is equivalently used in the treaties:
> 
> PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRELIMINARY.
> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the *territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies*, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> The confusion is the difference between the Mandatory and the Mandate.
> 
> The term "Mandatory" → which is (what you ≈ said) trust government selected by the said Allied Powers in the matter of administration in the territory of Palestine.  The Mandate is an obligation and authority given to the Mandatory to carry-out certain responsibilities; one of which was the responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am going to do a "Rocco" post.

Benoliel and Perry attempt to refute my argument that the statehood asserted by the Palestine National Council in 1988 was not of a new state, but of a state that already existed. They challenge my position that Palestine, as a Class A mandate under the League of Nations, was a state already in that era. 36 But beyond a bald assertion, Benoliel and Perry cite nothing that would demonstrate that Palestine was not a state in the League era. In particular, they mention nothing of the practice of the states of that era in regard to Palestine, which is where one must look to determine if Palestine was then a state. Had Benoliel and Perry examined that state practice, they would have seen that Palestine was accepted as a state, even though it was administered by Great Britain under the mandate system established by the League. 3 7

Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I9 The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. 40 The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. 4 1 The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## TNHarley

Seems the palis were the first in israel. They just discovered a 500,000 year old homo erectus settlement right outside israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE::  Palestine Today
> ※→   et al,
> 
> This is just another Palestinian head *Three-card Monte *games with the word salad.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may have used the boundaries of the territory once under the Mandate,
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again with Israeli bullshit. The Mandate was not a place. It was an administration appointed to Palestine. Palestine was there with or without the Mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, It seems you're still clinging to some invention of your alleged "State of Pal'istan".
> 
> Yes, there was the geographic area called "Palestine".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The language use by me, and most governments, and certainly the UN is what is equivalently used in the treaties:
> 
> PART I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRELIMINARY.
> Title. 1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the *territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies*, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> 
> The confusion is the difference between the Mandatory and the Mandate.
> 
> The term "Mandatory" → which is (what you ≈ said) trust government selected by the said Allied Powers in the matter of administration in the territory of Palestine.  The Mandate is an obligation and authority given to the Mandatory to carry-out certain responsibilities; one of which was the responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I am going to do a "Rocco" post.
> 
> Benoliel and Perry attempt to refute my argument that the statehood asserted by the Palestine National Council in 1988 was not of a new state, but of a state that already existed. They challenge my position that Palestine, as a Class A mandate under the League of Nations, was a state already in that era. 36 But beyond a bald assertion, Benoliel and Perry cite nothing that would demonstrate that Palestine was not a state in the League era. In particular, they mention nothing of the practice of the states of that era in regard to Palestine, which is where one must look to determine if Palestine was then a state. Had Benoliel and Perry examined that state practice, they would have seen that Palestine was accepted as a state, even though it was administered by Great Britain under the mandate system established by the League. 3 7
> 
> Most critically, Benoliel and Perry fail to account for a major international instrument of the era bearing on the status of Palestine, the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne." It was in this treaty that Turkey gave up its territories  in the Arab world following its defeat in World War I9 The Treaty of Lausanne, to which the World War I allies were party, more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine), all of which became Class A mandates as "states" that were "detached" from Turkey. 40 The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course. 4 1 The Class A mandates were states temporarily under the administration of an outside state.
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...


I know it’s been related to you dozens of times and why you persist in trying to re-write the Treaty of Lausanne is quite obvious, so once again, 



the Treaty of Lausanne was concerned with the end of hostilities following WW1.


The Treaty of Lausanne never once refers to “Pal’istan”.


Should I save the above as a Microsoft Word document and email it to you? You can then, when prompted during your next attempt to re-write the Treaty of Lausanne, be instructed to cut and paste said Word document and save everyone yet another FPM (Face Palm Moment) when you, you know, do what you do.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Treaty of Lausanne ... more than once refers to Turkey's Arab territories (Iraq, Syria, and Palestine) ...



Link?  Or quote specific Articles.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Treaty of Lausanne thus reflected an assumption that the Class A mandate territories, including Palestine, were "states." Under the League Covenant, the independence of these states was "provisionally recognized," and they were to be made independent in due course.



Yeah, no.  

The wording of the League Covenant Article 22, paragraph 4 is *permissive*, not obligating.  

‘Certain communities, formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire, have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations *can* be provisionally recognized, subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone'

Not WAS.  Not WILL be.  Not MUST be.  Not ARE independent nations.  Can be.  When can they be?  Subject to the rendering of assistance.  So no, this is not proof that "Palestine" was not an existing State.


----------



## Shusha

And further to ALL that, you still have the problem that the State of Palestine, whenever it came into existence, was the National Home for the Jewish People.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Using music to incite murder, on PA TV - PMW Bulletins

Using music to incite murder, on PA TV:
"No force... can remove the weapon from my hand,
from my wounds, my weapon has emerged" *

*PA TV host concurs: 
"We will come out at you from where you won't expect it. We will come out at you from underground, from above ground, from every burrow, from every angle because we have a right"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TeleSUR DIY Destinations - Palestine Part 1: best of Bethlehem and Hebron*

**
*TeleSUR DIY Destinations - Palestine Part 2: Aida Refugee Camp, Jenin, Sebastia, and Nablus

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rehab Nazzal

Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank

*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

•  NCIS TV Gibb's Rule #39:  "No such thing as coincidence."
•  This incident happened over two years ago. (Recycled story.)



P F Tinmore said:


> Rehab Nazzal
> Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank


*(COMMENT)*

*
 Dimitri Lascaris* is a lawyer, journalist and activist; board member of the "The Real News Network (TRNN); a daily video news and documentary service.  TRNN produced the video submitted by our friend "P F Tinmore."  

 *Sharmini Peries*, a journalist at the time of the production, was also the TRNN Executive Producer for the News Video presentation assembled in Balitmore, Maryland.  Ms Peries also acts as a Senior Editorial Board Member for TRNN.

* Dr Rehab Nazzal *was a Palestinian-Canadian *doctoral candidate* in videography, photography and sound works; specializing in human rights issue short news videos, colonialism and war documentaries; but considers herself an "artist."  Today Dr Nazzal holds a PhD in Art and Visual Culture from the University of Western Ontario.  Dr Nazzal is often associated with controversy causes.

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​
Dr Nazzal sets-up and frames the story for TRNN as both victim and witness.  TRNN interviews and produces the video.  And the TRNN attorney and board members publish _(two years ago next week)_ the video with focus centered as an anti-Israel news feature.

Although the victim/videographer implies that there are 10,000 such incidents every quarter, they have to republish this one periodically.  But there is precious little corroborating reports on this event.  Nor does the interviewer or victim focus on the activities being pursued at the time of the shooting.  And what evidence they have that they were actually shot by an Israeli.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> •  NCIS TV Gibb's Rule #39:  "No such thing as coincidence."
> •  This incident happened over two years ago. (Recycled story.)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehab Nazzal
> Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dimitri Lascaris* is a lawyer, journalist and activist; board member of the "The Real News Network (TRNN); a daily video news and documentary service.  TRNN produced the video submitted by our friend "P F Tinmore."
> 
> View attachment 170718 *Sharmini Peries*, a journalist at the time of the production, was also the TRNN Executive Producer for the News Video presentation assembled in Balitmore, Maryland.  Ms Peries also acts as a Senior Editorial Board Member for TRNN.
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dr Rehab Nazzal *was a Palestinian-Canadian *doctoral candidate* in videography, photography and sound works; specializing in human rights issue short news videos, colonialism and war documentaries; but considers herself an "artist."  Today Dr Nazzal holds a PhD in Art and Visual Culture from the University of Western Ontario.  Dr Nazzal is often associated with controversy causes.
> 
> *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Dr Nazzal sets-up and frames the story for TRNN as both victim and witness.  TRNN interviews and produces the video.  And the TRNN attorney and board members publish _(two years ago next week)_ the video with focus centered as an anti-Israel news feature.
> 
> Although the victim/videographer implies that there are 10,000 such incidents every quarter, they have to republish this one periodically.  But there is precious little corroborating reports on this event.  Nor does the interviewer or victim focus on the activities being pursued at the time of the shooting.  And what evidence they have that they were actually shot by an Israeli.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The disturbing thing I got from this is that the worthless lackeys in the Canadian government, like the worthless lackeys in our government, care more about Israel than they care about their own people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> •  NCIS TV Gibb's Rule #39:  "No such thing as coincidence."
> •  This incident happened over two years ago. (Recycled story.)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehab Nazzal
> Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dimitri Lascaris* is a lawyer, journalist and activist; board member of the "The Real News Network (TRNN); a daily video news and documentary service.  TRNN produced the video submitted by our friend "P F Tinmore."
> 
> View attachment 170718 *Sharmini Peries*, a journalist at the time of the production, was also the TRNN Executive Producer for the News Video presentation assembled in Balitmore, Maryland.  Ms Peries also acts as a Senior Editorial Board Member for TRNN.
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dr Rehab Nazzal *was a Palestinian-Canadian *doctoral candidate* in videography, photography and sound works; specializing in human rights issue short news videos, colonialism and war documentaries; but considers herself an "artist."  Today Dr Nazzal holds a PhD in Art and Visual Culture from the University of Western Ontario.  Dr Nazzal is often associated with controversy causes.
> 
> *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Dr Nazzal sets-up and frames the story for TRNN as both victim and witness.  TRNN interviews and produces the video.  And the TRNN attorney and board members publish _(two years ago next week)_ the video with focus centered as an anti-Israel news feature.
> 
> Although the victim/videographer implies that there are 10,000 such incidents every quarter, they have to republish this one periodically.  But there is precious little corroborating reports on this event.  Nor does the interviewer or victim focus on the activities being pursued at the time of the shooting.  And what evidence they have that they were actually shot by an Israeli.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The disturbing thing I got from this is that the worthless lackeys in the Canadian government, like the worthless lackeys in our government, care more about Israel than they care about their own people.
Click to expand...


Rather, it seems another of your silly conspiracy theories has gone bust.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Randa Abdel-Fattah*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> •  NCIS TV Gibb's Rule #39:  "No such thing as coincidence."
> •  This incident happened over two years ago. (Recycled story.)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rehab Nazzal
> Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dimitri Lascaris* is a lawyer, journalist and activist; board member of the "The Real News Network (TRNN); a daily video news and documentary service.  TRNN produced the video submitted by our friend "P F Tinmore."
> 
> View attachment 170718 *Sharmini Peries*, a journalist at the time of the production, was also the TRNN Executive Producer for the News Video presentation assembled in Balitmore, Maryland.  Ms Peries also acts as a Senior Editorial Board Member for TRNN.
> 
> *View attachment 170718 Dr Rehab Nazzal *was a Palestinian-Canadian *doctoral candidate* in videography, photography and sound works; specializing in human rights issue short news videos, colonialism and war documentaries; but considers herself an "artist."  Today Dr Nazzal holds a PhD in Art and Visual Culture from the University of Western Ontario.  Dr Nazzal is often associated with controversy causes.
> 
> *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*​
> Dr Nazzal sets-up and frames the story for TRNN as both victim and witness.  TRNN interviews and produces the video.  And the TRNN attorney and board members publish _(two years ago next week)_ the video with focus centered as an anti-Israel news feature.
> 
> Although the victim/videographer implies that there are 10,000 such incidents every quarter, they have to republish this one periodically.  But there is precious little corroborating reports on this event.  Nor does the interviewer or victim focus on the activities being pursued at the time of the shooting.  And what evidence they have that they were actually shot by an Israeli.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The disturbing thing I got from this is that the worthless lackeys in the Canadian government, like the worthless lackeys in our government, care more about Israel than they care about their own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rather, it seems another of your silly conspiracy theories has gone bust.
Click to expand...

What conspiracy theory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*100 Ways For Peace From Palestine-samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa*


----------



## Hollie

Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence

On December 22, 2017, the same Fatah Facebook account published an image of the bus blown up in Tel Aviv in November 2012, with the caption: "Fatah Was Here."[6]


----------



## Hollie

Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence

A December 22 post on the same Fatah account featured an image of masked gunmen in front of photographs of Yasser Arafat, with the caption: "This cowardly enemy only understands one language: the language of bullets and an eye for an eye. Death to Israel. Death to the Zionist murderers."


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *Randa Abdel-Fattah*


Australia is only one of the few and by far the best to bring unbias reporting on every and any subject......Q(Questions) and A(Answers) is one of the finest programmes of its type in the world...The Australian Broadcasting Corporation of which Q&A is part of its programming,were the reporters that brought the darstedly treatment and plight of Palestinian Children being locked up in CAGES IN ALL WEATHERS AND AT NIGHT....the Zionist Terrorist(THE TRASH) Government of Isra el tried to get the programme PULLED but the ABC rightly told them in no uncertain terms TO FCUK OFF...During the programme the Israeli Government said this cruelty NEVER HAPPENED....Trouble for them was the ABC HAD FOOTAGE OF THIS BANALITY...within days of this footage being shewn concerned Israelis and Jews worldwide made their beastial sic  Government STOP THIS PRACTICE .....Australians fear no one,Tinnie many thanks for your wonderful exposea and truth about the RETARDED CULT CALLED ZIONISM,THE ORIGINAL ANTI-SEMITES.....steve

www.abc.net.au/4corners/stone-cold-justice-promo/5245064

just click on transcript


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

A day with the Islamic Death Cult.

Is the PA trying to launch a new terror campaign? - PMW Bulletins

*Is the PA trying to launch a new terror campaign?*


*Terror incitement broadcasts from past PA terror campaigns 
were rebroadcast last month at least 46 times by the PA*

*Official PA TV rebroadcasts 41 times Abbas' call to prevent Jews "in any way" from "defiling our holy places," which in 2014 was broadcast 32 times during the Palestinian terror wave in which 12 Israelis were murdered 
*
*Song calling for murder repeatedly broadcast by official PA TV in 2000 when the PA launched its terror campaign - the second Intifada - has also been broadcast again 5 times
*
*There was a dramatic rise of Palestinian terror attacks during December: from 84 in Nov. 2017, to 249 in Dec. 2017, according to the Israeli Security Agency *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ode to the female Death Cultist

Palestinian Women On The Frontlines Of The Current Uprising







Why aren't they in their Islamist Fem-Tents?


----------



## Hollie

Yet another day in the retrograde Death Cult.

Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence

A December 23 post reviewed the movement's struggle in the days since the U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, explaining, inter alia, that a "stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv" and rocket fire from Gaza that it said was carried out by Fatah members are a source of pride for every member of the movement. The post, which states "This post [is addressed to] everyone who takes pride in being a Fatah member,"  read: "A [source] of pride: 1) The person who carried out the stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv is a Fatah member and currently a prisoner; 2) The rockets from Gaza at the occupied lands were fired by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which belong to the Fatah movement; 3) The six martyrs who fell in the West Bank and Gaza are Fatah members; 4) All the activists arrested by the occupation in Jerusalem are Fatah members and activists; 5) Most of the anti-occupation marches are led by the Fatah movement, with the participation of all members of the Central Committee; 6) Standing behind the international measures, beginning with the convening of the Arab League, followed by [the convening of] the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, and concluding with the major victory in the UN Security Council, is the Fatah movement, headed by Chairman Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas]... The martyr Zakaria Al-Kafarna from Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza strip, who was martyred yesterday, is a Fatah member as well..."[7]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi Offers Israelis a Lesson Worthy of Gandhi*

Sixteen-year-old Ahed Tamimi may not be what Israelis had in mind when, over many years, they criticised Palestinians for not producing a Mahatma Gandhi or Nelson Mandela.

Eventually, colonized peoples bring to the fore a figure best suited to challenge the rotten values at the core of the society oppressing them. Ahed is well qualified for the task.

She was charged last week with assault and incitement after she slapped two heavily armed Israeli soldiers as they refused to leave the courtyard of her family home in the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh, near Ramallah. Her mother, Nariman, is in detention for filming the incident. The video quickly went viral.

Ahed lashed out shortly after soldiers nearby shot her 15-year-old cousin in the face, seriously injuring him.

Western commentators have largely denied Ahed the kind of effusive support offered to democracy protesters in places such as China and Iran. Nevertheless, this Palestinian schoolgirl – possibly facing a long jail term for defying her oppressors – has quickly become a social media icon.

For years, she and other villagers have held a weekly confrontation with the Israeli army as it enforces the rule of Jewish settlers over Nabi Saleh. These settlers have forcibly taken over the village’s lands and ancient spring, a vital water source for a community that depends on farming.

Ahed Tamimi Offers Israelis a Lesson Worthy of Gandhi


----------



## Hollie

The blue-eyed poster girl of Palestinian propaganda

Op-ed: Ahed Tamimi’s success in the Western public opinion stems from the fact that she doesn’t look like a typical Muslim or Palestinian woman; she generates sympathy because she looks like the daughter of the white family next door. As long as she delivers the goods, the clear racist aspect in this ability to identify with her doesn’t really matter.

For years, she has been the poster girl of Palestinian propaganda. The jewel in the crown. The star of Pallywood, a term coined by Prof. Richard Landes to describe the Palestinians' staged false displays for the purpose of accusing Israel of violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Ahed has three possible endings:

1.  She follows her own call-to-action and becomes a martyr.  
2.  She follows in her father's footsteps and becomes the family figurehead in calling others to be martyrs.
3.  She grows up, stops being useful in the propaganda and is replaced with someone younger and cuter.

I'd like to consider a fourth, though I think it is unlikely.  

4.  She becomes a voice for peace and negotiations with Israel.


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Yet another day in the retrograde Death Cult.
> 
> Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence
> 
> A December 23 post reviewed the movement's struggle in the days since the U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, explaining, inter alia, that a "stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv" and rocket fire from Gaza that it said was carried out by Fatah members are a source of pride for every member of the movement. The post, which states "This post [is addressed to] everyone who takes pride in being a Fatah member,"  read: "A [source] of pride: 1) The person who carried out the stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv is a Fatah member and currently a prisoner; 2) The rockets from Gaza at the occupied lands were fired by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which belong to the Fatah movement; 3) The six martyrs who fell in the West Bank and Gaza are Fatah members; 4) All the activists arrested by the occupation in Jerusalem are Fatah members and activists; 5) Most of the anti-occupation marches are led by the Fatah movement, with the participation of all members of the Central Committee; 6) Standing behind the international measures, beginning with the convening of the Arab League, followed by [the convening of] the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, and concluding with the major victory in the UN Security Council, is the Fatah movement, headed by Chairman Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas]... The martyr Zakaria Al-Kafarna from Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza strip, who was martyred yesterday, is a Fatah member as well..."[7]


Do you remember the actual moment you became a Zionist ******* Hollie


----------



## theliq

Shusha said:


> Ahed has three possible endings:
> 
> 1.  She follows her own call-to-action and becomes a martyr.
> 2.  She follows in her father's footsteps and becomes the family figurehead in calling others to be martyrs.
> 3.  She grows up, stops being useful in the propaganda and is replaced with someone younger and cuter.
> 
> I'd like to consider a fourth, though I think it is unlikely.
> 
> 4.  She becomes a voice for peace and negotiations with Israel.


you may be surprised,she could well be the voice but would there be an Israeli negotiator to voice with????? that is the real question Shusha


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Yet another day in the retrograde Death Cult.
> 
> Fatah Social Media Accounts Glorify Armed Struggle Against Israel, Incite To Violence
> 
> A December 23 post reviewed the movement's struggle in the days since the U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, explaining, inter alia, that a "stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv" and rocket fire from Gaza that it said was carried out by Fatah members are a source of pride for every member of the movement. The post, which states "This post [is addressed to] everyone who takes pride in being a Fatah member,"  read: "A [source] of pride: 1) The person who carried out the stabbing attack operation in Tel Aviv is a Fatah member and currently a prisoner; 2) The rockets from Gaza at the occupied lands were fired by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which belong to the Fatah movement; 3) The six martyrs who fell in the West Bank and Gaza are Fatah members; 4) All the activists arrested by the occupation in Jerusalem are Fatah members and activists; 5) Most of the anti-occupation marches are led by the Fatah movement, with the participation of all members of the Central Committee; 6) Standing behind the international measures, beginning with the convening of the Arab League, followed by [the convening of] the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, and concluding with the major victory in the UN Security Council, is the Fatah movement, headed by Chairman Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas]... The martyr Zakaria Al-Kafarna from Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza strip, who was martyred yesterday, is a Fatah member as well..."[7]


So what happened to the 3 Zionists teens who Murdered the Palestinian Boy By Incineration....What Sentence did the get????


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

The moment a Palestinian girl Amal Jamil (17-year-old) get released from the Israeli jails today, after being sentenced more then 1 year and meeting her parents for the first time in months. Her crime? A Facebook post.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The moment a Palestinian girl Amal Jamil (17-year-old) get released from the Israeli jails today, after being sentenced more then 1 year and meeting her parents for the first time in months. Her crime? A Facebook post.



Hmmmm.  No news articles on this person with a simple search.  Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’ *

The British government has responded to the arrest of Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi saying that the Israeli occupation forces should not have been in Nabi Saleh in the first place.

In oral questions yesterday, Labour MP Julie Elliott asked
 Alistair Burt, minister of state for the Middle East at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, whether he shared her “outrage” over the “continued detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi”.

Burt confirmed that the British government has made representations to the Israeli authorities about Tamimi’s case.

British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’ *
> 
> The British government has responded to the arrest of Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi saying that the Israeli occupation forces should not have been in Nabi Saleh in the first place.
> 
> In oral questions yesterday, Labour MP Julie Elliott asked
> Alistair Burt, minister of state for the Middle East at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, whether he shared her “outrage” over the “continued detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi”.
> 
> Burt confirmed that the British government has made representations to the Israeli authorities about Tamimi’s case.
> 
> British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’




1. Area C is under Israeli control. They have every right to be there as mutually agreed by treaty (aka international law). 

2. There is no Green Line. It ceased to exist or be relevant once Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty between them thus dissolving the previous Armistice Line (aka Green Line). 

3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UN Jerusalem vote - Ali Abunimah on Al Jazeera English*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’ *
> 
> The British government has responded to the arrest of Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi saying that the Israeli occupation forces should not have been in Nabi Saleh in the first place.
> 
> In oral questions yesterday, Labour MP Julie Elliott asked
> Alistair Burt, minister of state for the Middle East at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, whether he shared her “outrage” over the “continued detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi”.
> 
> Burt confirmed that the British government has made representations to the Israeli authorities about Tamimi’s case.
> 
> British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Area C is under Israeli control. They have every right to be there as mutually agreed by treaty (aka international law).
> 
> 2. There is no Green Line. It ceased to exist or be relevant once Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty between them thus dissolving the previous Armistice Line (aka Green Line).
> 
> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).


Stealing and killing is not providing security and safety for the citizens under occupation. It is criminal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’ *
> 
> The British government has responded to the arrest of Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi saying that the Israeli occupation forces should not have been in Nabi Saleh in the first place.
> 
> In oral questions yesterday, Labour MP Julie Elliott asked
> Alistair Burt, minister of state for the Middle East at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, whether he shared her “outrage” over the “continued detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi”.
> 
> Burt confirmed that the British government has made representations to the Israeli authorities about Tamimi’s case.
> 
> British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Area C is under Israeli control. They have every right to be there as mutually agreed by treaty (aka international law).
> 
> 2. There is no Green Line. It ceased to exist or be relevant once Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty between them thus dissolving the previous Armistice Line (aka Green Line).
> 
> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stealing and killing is not providing security and safety for the citizens under occupation. It is criminal.
Click to expand...


Stealing and killing defines the history of Arabs-Islamics.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’ *
> 
> The British government has responded to the arrest of Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi saying that the Israeli occupation forces should not have been in Nabi Saleh in the first place.
> 
> In oral questions yesterday, Labour MP Julie Elliott asked
> Alistair Burt, minister of state for the Middle East at the Foreign & Commonwealth Office, whether he shared her “outrage” over the “continued detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi”.
> 
> Burt confirmed that the British government has made representations to the Israeli authorities about Tamimi’s case.
> 
> British minister on Ahed Tamimi arrest: Israel soldiers ‘shouldn’t be there’
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Area C is under Israeli control. They have every right to be there as mutually agreed by treaty (aka international law).
> 
> 2. There is no Green Line. It ceased to exist or be relevant once Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty between them thus dissolving the previous Armistice Line (aka Green Line).
> 
> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Even excepting the above, the "occupier" (cough cough) has a duty to police and provide security and safety for the citizens under "occupation" (cough cough).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stealing and killing is not providing security and safety for the citizens under occupation. It is criminal.
Click to expand...


War between Arab tribes in Kfar Manda:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Assholes invading the Tamimi home.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Assholes invading the Tamimi home.



And their uncle:
*PA: DEATH PENALTY FOR THOSE WHO SELL LAND TO JEWS*
*Authority's Chief Islamic Judge issues warning after reports of US Jews buying land from Palestinians.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pally'weird Studios


----------



## Roudy

If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today". 

The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.


Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
Click to expand...


More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?

Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, Roudy, et al,

Why would anyone need proof of this.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

We all know that _(in the name of the Senate and the People of Rome)_ the Leadership _(Octavian → AKA: Emperor Augustus Caesar)_ appointed Herod the Great _(AKA:  Herod I)_, once an Arab Hostage in Rome, as the _(Client)_ King _(or National Leader)_ of Samaria, Judea and Idumea.  King Herod was responsible for many engineering project throughout the territory, to include the rehabilitation of Temple facilities Jerusalem.   This is more than 2000 years ago.  There were no Arab Muslim then, since Islam was not created for another six (+) centuries.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
Click to expand...


http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf

ABSTRACT
Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.


Need more?


The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

*Article Eleven:*
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
Click to expand...

Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?

"which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?
> 
> "which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."
Click to expand...


That’s the part which has been explained to you more times than anyone can count. 

How is it that you're still befuddled?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?
> 
> "which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s the part which has been explained to you more times than anyone can count.
> 
> How is it that you're still befuddled?
Click to expand...

No it hasn't.

That is your typical dodge.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> More precisely, it is a loosely defined geographic area controlled for centuries by the Turk Islamist colonial project which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory. You shouldn't presume that your notion of the area belonging irrevocably and exclusively to islamics as an Islamist waqf is taken seriously by others.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?
> 
> "which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s the part which has been explained to you more times than anyone can count.
> 
> How is it that you're still befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it hasn't.
> 
> That is your typical dodge.
Click to expand...


It seems your lesson regarding the Islamic fascist waqf thing caused you to sidestep and deflect.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't have any proof of that, would you?
> 
> Of course not. You are just blowing Israeli smoke out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?
> 
> "which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s the part which has been explained to you more times than anyone can count.
> 
> How is it that you're still befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it hasn't.
> 
> That is your typical dodge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems your lesson regarding the Islamic fascist waqf thing caused you to sidestep and deflect.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but it did not answer the question.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
Click to expand...

Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.

You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.

The title of this thread is Balestine Today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
Click to expand...

A rose by any other name...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://tk.uni-sz.bg/files/N11_al.pdf
> 
> ABSTRACT
> Waqf is a religious endowment, a property giving revenues, as regulated by Islamic law. It was vital to the religious parts of the society before the establishment of modern states in the Muslim world. In Ottoman Empire, the waqf system together with the imaret and another religious institutions have important role in social and economical development of the Muslim Ottoman Cities. In this paper not only the religious and official face of waqf system but also the face of administration of local government of the settlements policies and their reflections on the cities in Turkey will be investigated.
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> *Article Eleven:*
> The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. Interesting. But what about this part?
> 
> "which later ceded all rights and title to the Mandatory."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s the part which has been explained to you more times than anyone can count.
> 
> How is it that you're still befuddled?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it hasn't.
> 
> That is your typical dodge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems your lesson regarding the Islamic fascist waqf thing caused you to sidestep and deflect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting, but it did not answer the question.
Click to expand...

Your usual sidestep.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Playgrounds for Palestine 2016 Gala Supporters*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,

As everyone here knows, you and I don't agree on very much.  BUT!  This is something we can agree upon...



P F Tinmore said:


> *Playgrounds for Palestine 2016 Gala Supporters*


*(COMMENT)*

This is a positive video, about a segment of the community that needs more support.  Yes, PFP is a good thing.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh P F Tinmore, you are such a *phil·is·tine*.



P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is a question of recognition.  Remember to be careful what you call a "rose.""

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> As everyone here knows, you and I don't agree on very much.  BUT!  This is something we can agree upon...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Playgrounds for Palestine 2016 Gala Supporters*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a positive video, about a segment of the community that needs more support.  Yes, PFP is a good thing.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Founded by Susan Abulhawa.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh P F Tinmore, you are such a *phil·is·tine*.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a question of recognition.  Remember to be careful what you call a "rose.""
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What's in a name? What were Native Americans called before it was America? Were they the same people?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh P F Tinmore, you are such a *phil·is·tine*.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a question of recognition.  Remember to be careful what you call a "rose.""
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's in a name? What were Native Americans called before it was America? Were they the same people?
Click to expand...


The natives called it Eretz Israel and Canaan, foreigners called it Palestine...which ironically means "land of foreigners" in the native language.

Is there any other meaning in the native language?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh P F Tinmore, you are such a *phil·is·tine*.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a question of recognition.  Remember to be careful what you call a "rose.""
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's in a name? What were Native Americans called before it was America? Were they the same people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The natives called it Eretz Israel and Canaan, foreigners called it Palestine...which ironically means "land of foreigners" in the native language.
> 
> Is there any other meaning in the native language?
Click to expand...



I think "Pelishtim" also means "invaders".  They were a warlike, seafaring ppl from Greece and they weren't Semitic.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
Click to expand...

As long as there is a rose, yes, even the fraud "Falastine" is just the Arab way of referring to the European label Palestine.  But Arabs historically never referred to it as such.  So let's call a rose a rose and a spade a spade and Falastine a HOAX.


----------



## Roudy

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh P F Tinmore, you are such a *phil·is·tine*.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to spam the thread with these meaningless videos, at least pronounce the name properly.  It's "Balestine Today".
> 
> The "Palestine movement" is such a hoax that the so called Palestinians can't even properly pronounce the name of their "land" because of its European origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is Filistine, but what do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine was the name Europeans gave to the region, ignoramus.  Arabs and Muslims until the 20the century did not acknowledge the existence of a Balestine or Falastine.
> 
> You might keep whining "Say it ain't so" but it still IS.
> 
> The title of this thread is Balestine Today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rose by any other name...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a question of recognition.  Remember to be careful what you call a "rose.""
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

To some it's a hedeious cactus.


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


>


Everyone worldwide should fight against all DESPOTS running any country...especially women in trumps case...What happened to you americans,? you use to be so decent


----------



## theliq

As a Fight against Zionists..Zionism I will exert from time to time the Crimes against humanity committed to The Palestinians 1946-1952.....WATCH THIS SPACE


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>


Trouble with this footage Tinnie is that the Zionist Lemmings on here think this is normal to treat women and children in this way.....IT IS NOT...No one on the Zionist side has yet EXPLAINED TO ME WHAT SENTENCE THE 3 Zionists THUGS GOT FOR MURDERING THE PALESTINIAN TEENAGER WHO WAS BURN'T TO DEATH,were their parents home BULLDOZED?...WERE THE GIVEN 400 YEARS and 2000 LASHES? What did these Criminals get????????????


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egypt, volley ball fans, chant for the liberation of Palestine....*


----------



## Hollie

ISIS wants to liberate Gaza from Hamas.

Hooray for Islamic terrorists terrorizing Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Empire Files: Abby Martin Meets Ahed Tamimi—Message From A Freedom Fighter*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim Poets Society & Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Politics and Parenting in Palestine: Laila El-Haddad*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> ISIS wants to liberate Gaza from Hamas.
> 
> Hooray for Islamic terrorists terrorizing Islamic terrorists.


NO their real enemy is Zionists actually


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie,  et al,

The counterintelligence/counter-terrorism (CI/CT) seriousness on the issue of "suicidality" and the expression of a "death wish;" are one and the same.

From the CI/CT standpoint, we all understand that there is nothing that can justify terrorism → in society.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse or justify acts of terrorist.  The political ideology used to justify these terminal operations is merely a manifestation of the search for glory _(as distinguished from true heroism)_ → compounded by the fact that there is a emotional and mental defect centered on the an act that seems to have some purpose and the mental frame of mind that they have nothing to live for, in the future.  Dying for a cause, and risking their live for something greater then themselves are two different mental states.




Hollie said:


> Video #1





Hollie said:


> Video #2


*(COMMENT)*

The suicide bomber, in the sure fact that survival is "zero" is the effort to end the pain of living, with the possibility that their end-of-life might _(although not certain by any means)_ may benefit some or something.  In some rational forms, it comes from the sense that their life is not worth as much as the life of someone else.

This is very different than the extremely intense feeling one get in an adrenaline rush; the sensation of little or no pain and a dramatic increase in energy and strength.  It can become addictive; some paratroopers (not all) experience this emotion and feeling.   On the LZ you'll notice that some paratroopers come down and are smiling, some screaming Wow! expressing the want and need to do it again.  Others, look around and think I've made it - in terms of a sense of accomplishment.  _(A suicide bomber/martyr has no sense of accomplishment; they are dead.)_

Promoters (_like HAMAS. Fatah, PIJ, etc)_ of martyrdom do not actually convey the political implication of the act.  They do not explain to the suicide bombers _(martyrs)_ that their act is a form of coercion; to raise the level of fear in those that actually have something to live for; a better life now and the expectations of something even better in the future.  The leadership of the various martyrdom activities are pitting their resources of those that have nothing to live for against those that have everything to live for.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie,  et al,
> 
> The counterintelligence/counter-terrorism (CI/CT) seriousness on the issue of "suicidality" and the expression of a "death wish;" are one and the same.
> 
> From the CI/CT standpoint, we all understand that there is nothing that can justify terrorism → in society.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse or justify acts of terrorist.  The political ideology used to justify these terminal operations is merely a manifestation of the search for glory _(as distinguished from true heroism)_ → compounded by the fact that there is a emotional and mental defect centered on the an act that seems to have some purpose and the mental frame of mind that they have nothing to live for, in the future.  Dying for a cause, and risking their live for something greater then themselves are two different mental states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 171409 Video #1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 171409 Video #2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The suicide bomber, in the sure fact that survival is "zero" is the effort to end the pain of living, with the possibility that their end-of-life might _(although not certain by any means)_ may benefit some or something.  In some rational forms, it comes from the sense that their life is not worth as much as the life of someone else.
> 
> This is very different than the extremely intense feeling one get in an adrenaline rush; the sensation of little or no pain and a dramatic increase in energy and strength.  It can become addictive; some paratroopers (not all) experience this emotion and feeling.   On the LZ you'll notice that some paratroopers come down and are smiling, some screaming Wow! expressing the want and need to do it again.  Others, look around and think I've made it - in terms of a sense of accomplishment.  _(A suicide bomber/martyr has no sense of accomplishment; they are dead.)_
> 
> Promoters (_like HAMAS. Fatah, PIJ, etc)_ of martyrdom do not actually convey the political implication of the act.  They do not explain to the suicide bombers _(martyrs)_ that their act is a form of coercion; to raise the level of fear in those that actually have something to live for; a better life now and the expectations of something even better in the future.  The leadership of the various martyrdom activities are pitting their resources of those that have nothing to live for against those that have everything to live for.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Some great commentary, Rocco. I would offer that in the twisted calculus of the Arab-Moslem Death Cultist, suicide / mass murder in furtherance of their religious perspective is not suicide, it's “martyrdom”. The reality is, however, that these mass murderers feed on the hatreds engendered by their ideology and they find a religious conviction in the infliction of agony and suffering. They found solace in bloodshed. They saw God's design in destruction and suffering. The mass murderers think their actions meet a holy mandate, but the rest of us know that it's vile.

I think it is very obvious that Islam has never managed to drag ittself out of medieval thinking, whether that be due to its inherent dynamics or the conscious desire of its adherents (a lot of the former, a little of the latter I think). That masses of people _want_ to live under the strictures of _sharia_ is astonishing perhaps, but there's this dynamic of self-deception that goes hand in hand with Islam’s ancient fears, superstitions and prejudices vs. modern reality, and as we see, such deceptions are not harmless.

The idea of the infliction of suffering and death as a religious perspective is unthinkable to most of us. Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a desire to survive, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do).

My take on death is this: I have a natural fear of it under certain circumstances. Let me illustrate: A close friend was diagnosed with melanoma at 22 years of age, and in the 5 months it took for her to die a miserable painful agonizing death in front of her 26 year old husband and their infant daughter -- she was terrified. This was a frightening, suck-ass and heartless way to die-- the pain and horror she endured was a nightmare, no treatments changed a single thing, and she died less than three weeks before Christmas-- what a nice gift to their child. I do NOT wish to die that way. It's frightening, and the process of wrestling with one's mortality on an ongoing basis for months, always losing every battle, is mind numbingly terrifying.

I think these martyr-murderers via their politico-religious ideology and a “culture” that rewards suicide / mass murder have squelched the issue of self-preservation (via their religion, which deceives them via a promise that cannot ever be proven to exist, i.e., paradise) and they are very much aware that being blown to bits pretty much snaps off the light switch with no time to register the fact that one is in pain or dead (academic argument, that last bit). It is these aspects of Arab-Moslem culture; to successfully implant a goal without proof or evidence of any kind, that gives rise to the endless chain of death that Arabs-Moslems are amazingly willing to inflict upon _one another_ and others. The sociopaths that Moslems define as heroes are looking to sublimate a love affair with the fascistic infliction of suffering and mass murder in Muhammud's name into the illusion of pious Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Upholding "our" constitution.

This from an Islamist sharia groupie.


----------



## Roudy

Balestine today, same IslamoNazi shithole it was yesterday...


----------



## Roudy

Balestine, a fraud yesterday, today, and tomorrow!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jerusalem: capital of apartheid, and the Israelgate scandal, with Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Roudy

IslamoNazis never get the message.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Roudy said:


> IslamoNazis never get the message.


MEMRI always scraped the bottom of the barrel for the rare nutcases.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Jerusalem: capital of apartheid, and the Israelgate scandal, with Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **



It seems you and others choose to mindlessly and carelessly use the “apartheid” slogan without understanding what it means.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

See the documentary here:
Boycott Israel


----------



## Hollie

*PMW's Role in Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Salaries to Terrorist Prisoners - PMW Bulletins*

*PMW plays active role in Israel's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee debate drafting legislation to reduce Israeli tax transfers to PA because of PA's payment of salaries to terrorists*

*Palestinian terrorists have admitted that the payment of the salaries by the PA served as motivation to carry out terror attacks.*


*The PA salaries to terrorists were used to purchase weapons that were used in a terror attack resulting in the death of Malachi Rosenfeld and the injury of others.*


*Since exposing the PA's practice of paying salaries to terrorists in 2011, PMW had been instrumental in changing the approach of foreign governments.*


*New Israeli legislation being discussed would penalize the PA by reducing the sum that it pays to terrorists and their families from the taxes Israel collects on the PA's behalf.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.

Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.

*International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.

Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


>





Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
Click to expand...

I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
Click to expand...


Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.
Click to expand...



Yes.  Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?  Palestinians are just as dysfunctional as the rest of their Arab brethren.  They just have someone to blame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?


Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This guy makes some good points, however, he is not going to ask why this is happening. Israel controls the aid into Palestine and most of it goes to benefit Israel at the expense of the Palestinians.
> 
> Although this guy asks questions, he really does not want the answers.
> 
> *International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.
Click to expand...

And now for the never answered question. The Zionists always dance around this one.

Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get back in power in the West Bank in 2007?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe your conspiracy theories adequately address the theft of aid money by islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And now for the never answered question. The Zionists always dance around this one.
> 
> Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get back in power in the West Bank in 2007?
Click to expand...


I just know you have a handy conspiracy theory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These so called scandals were Israeli hokum. Israel is just trying to shut off all aid to Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And now for the never answered question. The Zionists always dance around this one.
> 
> Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get back in power in the West Bank in 2007?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just know you have a handy conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.
Click to expand...


What you’re dancing around is the fact that Islamist backwaters have a common, unique characteristic that defines the retrogression so common to each and every one. 

Take a guess what characteristic they share in common.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are just excuses for fraud and theft by islamic terrorists.
> 
> Report: Billions of Dollars of Aid to Palestinian Authority Lost to Corruption
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue that. Abbas is the foreign appointed oligarch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your silly conspiracy theories. Your excuses for Arab-Moslem failures of the “Pal’istanian” version are quite the laughable episodes when those same failures are exhibited across the Islamist Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And now for the never answered question. The Zionists always dance around this one.
> 
> Fatah lost the elections in 2006. How did they get back in power in the West Bank in 2007?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just know you have a handy conspiracy theory.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your typical retreat to cartoons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you’re dancing around is the fact that Islamist backwaters have a common, unique characteristic that defines the retrogression so common to each and every one.
> 
> Take a guess what characteristic they share in common.
Click to expand...

Keep dancing.

This is fun.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you’re dancing around is the fact that Islamist backwaters have a common, unique characteristic that defines the retrogression so common to each and every one.
> 
> Take a guess what characteristic they share in common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> This is fun.
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat to cut and paste cartoons gives no one confidence that you’re able to defend an argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you’re dancing around is the fact that Islamist backwaters have a common, unique characteristic that defines the retrogression so common to each and every one.
> 
> Take a guess what characteristic they share in common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> This is fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to cut and paste cartoons gives no one confidence that you’re able to defend an argument.
Click to expand...

I am suppose to argue a deflection?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Why would a Palestine be any different than Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc.?
> 
> 
> 
> Or any of the other countries we bombed the crap out of.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you’re dancing around is the fact that Islamist backwaters have a common, unique characteristic that defines the retrogression so common to each and every one.
> 
> Take a guess what characteristic they share in common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> This is fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat to cut and paste cartoons gives no one confidence that you’re able to defend an argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am suppose to argue a deflection?
Click to expand...


You don’t argue anything. You cut and paste cartoons.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*What MLK’s ‘Letter from Birmingham Jail’ tells us about Ahed Tamimi in a cold Israeli cell*

What MLK’s ‘Letter from Birmingham Jail’ tells us about Ahed Tamimi in a cold Israeli cell


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*

Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.

Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook. 

“Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.

“Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”

Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA



Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?
Click to expand...

Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.
Click to expand...


You can flail your Poms Poms all you wish as you urge children to commit assault and battery. Obviously, they will face the consequences you will not.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can flail your Poms Poms all you wish as you urge children to commit assault and battery. Obviously, they will face the consequences you will not.
Click to expand...



Good point.  Tinmore has always been against compromise, which he calls "surrender."  He would rather Palestinians live in "refugee camps" and make all kinds of mayhem and trouble, instead of building normal lives.  They face the consequences and he does not.  Yet this armchair warrior's heart bleeds for the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

*Thank you, President Trump.*

I hope this is a watershed moment in time when the US (and others), decide to hold the Arab-Moslem welfare cheats accountable. My wish would have been for an unequivocal statement of intent by cutting off a source of funding for welfare fraud that enables islamic terrorists.

Lets hope this is just a first step.



*US withholds $65 mn from UN agency for Palestinians*
*US withholds $65 mn from UN agency for Palestinians | Daily Mail Online*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al,_

This has to do with the civility of the Arab Palestinians and the level to which they will carry-out their individual activist agenda.  In this case, someone has taught Ahed Tamimi that to  engage in a physical confrontation with Israeli Security is an acceptable manner to express negative discourse.



Hollie said:


> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?


*(COMMENT)*

Contrary to popular pro-Palestinian belief, that there is no Applicability of Protections for Civilian Persons within the Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt), including East Jerusalem, and the other occupied Arab territories (A/RES/68/81 • and • A/RES/67/119); nothing could be farther from the actual truth.



P F Tinmore said:


> Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no excuse for the use of violence.  The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can flail your Poms Poms all you wish as you urge children to commit assault and battery. Obviously, they will face the consequences you will not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Tinmore has always been against compromise, which he calls "surrender."  He would rather Palestinians live in "refugee camps" and make all kinds of mayhem and trouble, instead of building normal lives.  They face the consequences and he does not.  Yet this armchair warrior's heart bleeds for the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Israel's goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They have never compromised on that goal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In this case, someone has taught Ahed Tamimi that to engage in a physical confrontation with Israeli Security is an acceptable manner to express negative discourse.


Naw, it is the assholes in Israel who teach that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.


Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.

It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Israeli authorities must release a 16-year-old Palestinian activist who could face up to 10 years in prison over an altercation with Israeli soldiers in the occupied West Bank last month, Amnesty International said as she appeared in court today.
> 
> Ahed Tamimi will go before Ofer military court in the occupied West Bank accused of aggravated assault and 11 other charges after a video showing her shoving, slapping and kicking two Israeli soldiers in her home village of Nabi Saleh on December 15 went viral on Facebook.
> 
> “Nothing that Ahed Tamimi has done can justify the continuing detention of a 16-year-old girl. The Israeli authorities must release her without delay. In capturing an unarmed teenage girl’s assault on two armed soldiers wearing protective gear, the footage of this incident shows that she posed no actual threat and that her punishment is blatantly disproportionate,” said Magdalena Mughrabi, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.
> 
> “Ahed Tamimi’s ensuing arrest and military trial exposes the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory treatment of Palestinian children who dare to stand up to ongoing, often brutal, repression by occupying forces.”
> 
> Israel must release teenage Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi – Amnesty International USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should her assault and battery be excused? Is this another entitlement you believe should be extended for Islamic provocations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assault? You are a hoot. The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can flail your Poms Poms all you wish as you urge children to commit assault and battery. Obviously, they will face the consequences you will not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Tinmore has always been against compromise, which he calls "surrender."  He would rather Palestinians live in "refugee camps" and make all kinds of mayhem and trouble, instead of building normal lives.  They face the consequences and he does not.  Yet this armchair warrior's heart bleeds for the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They have never compromised on that goal.
Click to expand...


Is it ignorance or fraud that causes you to make such a demonstrably false comment?

Israel has a demonstrated history of returning land in exchange for peace.The State of Israel has returned and withdrawn from captured territory greater than the size of Israel itself--Sinai, Egyptian land west of the Nile, land east of the Golan, southern Lebanon, Gaza, etc.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
Click to expand...


Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel has a demonstrated history of returning land in exchange for peace.


What has Israel ever returned to the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.
Click to expand...

Israel "defends itself" by military attacks on Palestinian civilians?

Sounds like a bullshit Israeli talking point.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This comment doesn't even pass the smell test.



 Nov 17, 2016 · *smell test* _(plural *smell* tests) (idiomatic)_ An informal method for determining whether something is authentic, credible, or ethical, by using one's common sense or sense of propriety. 1994, Todd Purdum, "New Yorkers in Congress at War With a Lawyer," New York Times, 6 May.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Do you really believe this?

You are one of the prime advocates in this discussion group for the use violence.

•  A/RES/33/24 of 29 November 1978  •
2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle; ...​•  A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974  •
3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples’ struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, including armed struggle; …​
What you often forget to tell people is:  These two non-binding resolutions are not law; and thus, when in conflict with the UN Charter or other Treaties, Covenants and International Agreements between states, these UN Charter or other Treaties, Covenants and International Agreements between states take precedence.  One such overriding agreement is the Fourth Geneva Convention, and Article 68 which allows for the punishment of:

•  Palestinians committing an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,
•  Palestinians committing an offense which constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration,
•  Palestinians which present a grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them,
•  Palestinians found to be guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, may face capital punishment.​
You are incorrect when you imply that the Hostile Arab Palestinians are free to openly attack Israeli Security.

You have to be mentally deficient not to instinctively know that there will be consequences for open attacks (such as those above); sometimes grave consequences.  There is no member of the Arab League that would permit what Ahed Tamimi did and let her get away with it.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel "defends itself" by military attacks on Palestinian civilians?
> 
> Sounds like a bullshit Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Israel defends itself from Islamic terrorist attacks. It sounds like you want an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.
Click to expand...

All people have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel "defends itself" by military attacks on Palestinian civilians?
> 
> Sounds like a bullshit Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel defends itself from Islamic terrorist attacks. It sounds like you want an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence.
Click to expand...

You can't defend yourself when you are invading someone else's territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The allegation here is → once again → totally absurd; bordering on childish view of the regional security condition.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for the use of violence. The Arab Palestinians have only the right to to peaceful protest.
> 
> 
> 
> Only to have the assholes in Israel attack them.
> 
> It has always been Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. You presume an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism and then whine like a petulant child when Israel responds in self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All people have the right to defend themselves from invading foreign troops.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The "invading foreign troops" concept has long since lapsed.  The "effective control" of the West Bank has been established and recognized by the international community for a half century.  There is no on-going invasion.  That contest, both militarily and politically, is well over.  

What we have today is the accumulated political residue of failed Arab attempts to subdue the State of Israel.  Failing to accomplish the annihilation of the Jewish National Home.   The Hostile Arab Palestinians have mounted various campaigns modeled after Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters formed to operate in a series of (again) failed attempts at the premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant Israeli citizen targets by these very same sub-national groups.  The intention of these sub-national groups is to:

•   Use force and violence against the Israeli citizenry in the effort to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of Arab Palestinian political or social objectives. 

•  Use a psychological form of attack → achieved by attempting to panic Israeli civilians.​
This has absolutely nothing to do with defending against invaders.  Israeli effective control was established over top of the Jordanian occupation  even before the PLO declared independence in 1988. 

Each time the Arab Palestinians attempt some campaign against Israel, the Arab Palestinians lose something, be that freedom due to the necessity to establish more Article 43 HR Security systems improvements or actions, territory through Arab Palestinian agreements on Area "C" controls, or the development in the economic conditions.  As long as the Arab Palestinians maintain these various hostile postures → so will it be that the environment they seek through self-determination _(the path they have chosen for themselves)_ the farther away those objectives and goal will become.  Most peoples look for the "light at the end of the tunnel."  Arab Palestinians intentionally avoid it, seeking violence rather than the good faith in the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Authority Honors Two Prisoners Serving Life Sentences For Kidnapping, Murder Of Israeli Soldier; Representative For PA President 'Abbas: 'The Two Prisoners Are A National Example'

Palestinian Authority Honors Two Prisoners Serving Life Sentences For Kidnapping, Murder Of Israeli Soldier; Representative For PA President 'Abbas: 'The Two Prisoners Are A National Example'

_On January 14, 2018, the Palestinian Authority (PA) Prisoners Affairs Authority, in conjunction with the governor of the Ramallah district and the Palestinian Prisoners Club, held an event in Ramallah to mark the 36th year of imprisonment of two Israeli-Arab terrorists – Kareem Younis, aka "The Eldest of Prisoners," and his cousin Maher Younis – serving life sentences in Israel for the 1980 kidnapping and murder of Israeli soldier Avraham Bromberg. During the event, senior Fatah officials heaped praise on the two, describing them as "national examples of steadfastness" and "one of the symbols of the Palestinian struggle."_


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> What we have today is the accumulated political residue of failed Arab attempts to subdue the State of Israel.


What we have today is Israel continuing to steal all of Palestine and get rid of the rest of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are fighting back with what little they have.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, come off it.  You act as if that was not the intention of the Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What we have today is the accumulated political residue of failed Arab attempts to subdue the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> What we have today is Israel continuing to steal all of Palestine and get rid of the rest of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are fighting back with what little they have.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is the protodiplomacy for what was to become the _de facto_ mantra:

A/AC.21/10 → 16 February 1948 (Before the Creation of the Jewish State)
•  10. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to reaffirm here that the Arabs of Palestine cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom. They consider that imposing international alien immigrants on their country by force is nothing but an act of aggression and invasion, whether made by Jews themselves, through Great Britain, or by the United Nations. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation therefore expects that the duty of the United Nations is to remove the said aggression and stop that invasion. The creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression, it is something with no precedent in history. It is en act of wiping out the existence of an Arab country, violating its integrity, subjecting its land and people to foreign Jewish domination. “

S/775 →  24 May 1948 (Nine Days After Independence)
•  Question (F) Have Jewish forces penetrated into the territory in which you claim to have authority?

Answer: Arabs claim to have authority over all the area of Palestine as being the political representative of the overwhelming majority of the population. They regard Palestine a one unit. All forces that oppose majority wherever they may be are regarded as unlawful.​
•  The evolution of the Arab Palestinian illusion has been stated in many different ways over the last the last century:

ψ  Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

ψ  Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

ψ Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day.

ψ No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; nand it will not be long, God willing.

ψ It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned.

ψ The Arab Palestinian people, expressing themselves by the armed Palestinian revolution, reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of Palestine and reject all proposals aiming at the liquidation of the Palestinian problem, or its internationalization.

ψ The demand of security and peace, as well as the demand of right and justice, require all states to consider Zionism an illegitimate movement, to outlaw its existence, and to ban its operations, in order that friendly relations among peoples may be preserved, and the loyalty of citizens to their respective homelands safeguarded.​Many things can be said of Israel and its policies.  Since the time of the Balfour Declaration the leadership that has culminated into the modern and contemporary  has evolved quickly and adapting to new changes in the political scene.  And with these changes, and adaptation to meet the new challenges, Israel has developed well beyond that surrounding neighbors; in fact well beyond any of the members of the Arab League.   While Israel (19th) may place slightly below the development of the United Kingdom (16th), Japan (17th), and the Republic of Korea (18th) → it may interest you to note that it was rated above any Middle Eastern country you can name.

∑  If anyone is going to throw stones, then it should be those nations, in the immediate surrounding region and North Africa, that have shown the best human development for their people and the nation as a whole.  It should not model itself after Middle Eastern and North African nations that have no significant improvement in their position _(least of all the Arab Palestinians)_.  You follow the successful. 

"Here's everything I know about war:
 Somebody wins,
somebody loses, 
and
nothing is ever the same again.
•  Except that the Palestinians are still fighting;
over what → we can't even remember.  •"

_Admiral Constanza Stark,_
CY 9784
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> A/AC.21/10 → 16 February 1948 (Before the Creation of the Jewish State)
> 
> • 10. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to reaffirm here that the Arabs of Palestine cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom. They consider that imposing international alien immigrants on their country by force is nothing but an act of aggression and invasion, whether made by Jews themselves, through Great Britain, or by the United Nations. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation therefore expects that the duty of the United Nations is to remove the said aggression and stop that invasion. The creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression, it is something with no precedent in history. It is en act of wiping out the existence of an Arab country, violating its integrity, subjecting its land and people to foreign Jewish domination. “


The UN abandoned the partition plan and the Security Council did not Implement it. The US was recommending a UN trusteeship when Israel unilaterally took over Palestine by military force.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What we have today is the accumulated political residue of failed Arab attempts to subdue the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> What we have today is Israel continuing to steal all of Palestine and get rid of the rest of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are fighting back with what little they have.
Click to expand...


Yes.  This is the (faulty) narrative.  You agree with Rocco, then, that the GOAL of the Arab Palestinians is to "subdue the State of Israel", despite the fact that, as you admit readily, they do not have the resources to accomplish that goal and, in fact, the goal is getting further and further away.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*

*




*

When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."

*Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*




Yes, just like Israeli athletes can't compete in Arab or Muslim countries.  Great role models for sportsmanship and toleration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just like Israeli athletes can't compete in Arab or Muslim countries.  Great role models for sportsmanship and toleration.
Click to expand...

It is about moral values. A concept that escapes you.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*



Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  

According to the website:  

_MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._

_Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society._
_
_
Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
Click to expand...

It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
Click to expand...


How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
Click to expand...

I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*PLO endorses BDS, makes unprecedented call for sanctions*

On Monday, the Central Council of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, officially announced its support for the BDS movement and called, for the first time, on the international community to “impose sanctions on Israel” to end its ongoing, grave violations of Palestinian rights as stipulated by international law.

This is the most explicit and official adoption of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement by the PLO.

PLO endorses BDS, makes unprecedented call for sanctions


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah - Palestine Solidarity Conference.*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just like Israeli athletes can't compete in Arab or Muslim countries.  Great role models for sportsmanship and toleration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about moral values. A concept that escapes you.
Click to expand...


Yes, please lecture on the moral values of Islamic terrorism / Islamic fascism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.
Click to expand...


Yet, You flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## Hollie

*Intro:*
Hamas TV Host Iyad Abu Fanun, a lecturer at Gaza University, said that "our entire people loves Jihad and the resistance. It's intrinsic to its nature. Our very genes love these operations." He was speaking on Al-Aqsa TV on January 4, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just like Israeli athletes can't compete in Arab or Muslim countries.  Great role models for sportsmanship and toleration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about moral values. A concept that escapes you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, please lecture on the moral values of Islamic terrorism / Islamic fascism.
Click to expand...

Off topic.


----------



## Hollie

Fatah Official Muhammad Al-Laham Extols Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi, Suicide Bomber Ayat Al-Akhras: The Martyrs Are More Honorable Than All of Us.




Why, yes because Islamic mass murder / suicide is “honorable”. I’m sure the dead and wounded Islamics across Iraq and Syria are honored to be victims of Islamic degenerate martyrs.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just like Israeli athletes can't compete in Arab or Muslim countries.  Great role models for sportsmanship and toleration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about moral values. A concept that escapes you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, please lecture on the moral values of Islamic terrorism / Islamic fascism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
Click to expand...


Actually, no.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, You flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist franchises.
Click to expand...

Is calling names all you have?

Sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Fatah Official Muhammad Al-Laham Extols Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi, Suicide Bomber Ayat Al-Akhras: The Martyrs Are More Honorable Than All of Us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, yes because Islamic mass murder / suicide is “honorable”. I’m sure the dead and wounded Islamics across Iraq and Syria are honored to be victims of Islamic degenerate martyrs.


Off topic.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah Official Muhammad Al-Laham Extols Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi, Suicide Bomber Ayat Al-Akhras: The Martyrs Are More Honorable Than All of Us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, yes because Islamic mass murder / suicide is “honorable”. I’m sure the dead and wounded Islamics across Iraq and Syria are honored to be victims of Islamic degenerate martyrs.
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic.
Click to expand...


Actually, no.


----------



## Hollie

Jerusalem Friday Sermon by Sheikh "Abu Qusay" to Trump: We Will Storm Your White House, Stomp on Your Head, Kill Your Soldiers, Capture Your Land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> 
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, You flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is calling names all you have?
> 
> Sad.
Click to expand...


Off topic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah Official Muhammad Al-Laham Extols Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi, Suicide Bomber Ayat Al-Akhras: The Martyrs Are More Honorable Than All of Us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, yes because Islamic mass murder / suicide is “honorable”. I’m sure the dead and wounded Islamics across Iraq and Syria are honored to be victims of Islamic degenerate martyrs.
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, no.
Click to expand...

What is the relevance?


----------



## Hollie

Hamas Official Fathi Hammad to Trump: Palestine Will Be Your Graveyard


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah Official Muhammad Al-Laham Extols Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi, Suicide Bomber Ayat Al-Akhras: The Martyrs Are More Honorable Than All of Us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, yes because Islamic mass murder / suicide is “honorable”. I’m sure the dead and wounded Islamics across Iraq and Syria are honored to be victims of Islamic degenerate martyrs.
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the relevance?
Click to expand...


You’re off topic.


----------



## Hollie

Al-Aqsa Mosque Address by Sheikh Muhammad Ayed "Abu Abdallah": We Need a Caliph with His Finger on a Nuclear Button, Like Kim Jong-un





Oh, yeah. That’s what the world needs, “nukular” gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

Jerusalem Friday Sermon by Sheikh "Abu Qusay" to Trump: We Will Storm Your White House, Stomp on Your Head, Kill Your Soldiers, Capture Your Land




Thank you for the entertainment, Sheik Abu “_whack job_” Qusay. But really, shouldn’t you be out boinking nine year old girls?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Mahmoud Abbas: The PLO Should Reexamine Its Agreements with Israel; We Will No Longer Accept the U.S. as Mediator



Good call, Mahmoud. The Great Satan™️ will gladly set aside and end our welfare check contributions to your Islamic terrorist program. 

Thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Female Cry*

*Dareen Tatoour*
*



*

O my life, nestled in the heart of paper
Look here:

Our sorrows have slammed shut the door of hope
Their ghosts embracing our color
Until we appeared like them
The ink in poems of worry.

Look at them, how they sink their teeth
In my side
Wolfing down my blossoms and sweet scents.

They killed my spring in its entirety
Stole my very life from the world
Unleashed the season of sleeplessness.

O my life, I have grown tired.
Let me depart to live out my life
Secluded forever in the silence of my land
Let me, for I cannot overpower them
Charged as they are by rays of daylight and twilight alike

My chains won’t be broken by you, O Fate,
While the trees of my oppression go unwatered by hope
I will go on living by withdrawing inwards
I feed off the fires of time, and burn up
So long as I am imprisoned by silence
So long as I am occupied by sadness.
How long have I lived on the ground of hope
Beset by the flowers of life
I water them from the spring of struggle
Raise them up through the resolve of youth
I play… sing for existence itself,
Look forward to the birth of peace.

I reveal every light with my eyes
Yet these sorrows, O life of mine,
Follow me like my own name in the heart of this place
Like echoes

O my silent letters in the drowning sea:
Let me struggle on in nothingness
Alone with these sorrows, with tears of regret
I will always be inhabited by pain
As long as I accept being silenced.

O my dream, kidnapped from my younger years
Silence has ravaged us
Our tears have become a sea
Our patience has bored of us
Together, we rise up for sure
Whatever it was we wanted to be.

So let’s go
Raise up a cry
In the face of those shadowy ghosts.
For how long, O fire within,
Will you scorch my breast with tears?
And how long, O scream,
Will you remain in the hearts of women!

A Poem by Dareen Tatour


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Israel and Palestine
※→  et al,

Please name me an Arab League Country in which a  person, of Ahed Tamimi's disposition, would not have been arrested...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Targeted for nonviolent resistance: Israel seeks imprisonment of Palestinian activist Munther Amira*


*Bethlehem* — The Israeli military court at Ofer, which has over a 99% conviction rate, ruled on Tuesday to extend the detention of Palestinian activist Munther Amira until next Sunday pending further interrogation.

Amira, 47, the head of the  Coordinator of the Popular Struggle Coordination Committee (PSCC) in the occupied West Bank, is well known and highly respected across the Palestinian territory and his home, the Aida refugee camp, for his nonviolent activism against the Israeli occupation.

Amira was arrested by Israeli forces on December 27 during a routine protest in front of Israel’s illegal separation wall in northern Bethlehem city, in the southern occupied West Bank.

Video of Amira’s arrest shows the activist standing at the front of protests, holding a sign in support of Ahed al-Tamimi, when a group of Israeli officers ran out from the military base and grabbed him.

Targeted for nonviolent resistance: Israel seeks imprisonment of Palestinian activist Munther Amira


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Israel and Palestine
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Please name me an Arab League Country in which a  person, of Ahed Tamimi's disposition, would not have been arrested...


Name me an Arab League Country where she would be arrested by foreign troops.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Israel and Palestine
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Please name me an Arab League Country in which a  person, of Ahed Tamimi's disposition, would not have been arrested...
> 
> 
> 
> Name me an Arab League Country where she would be arrested by foreign troops.
Click to expand...

Well actually, arabz-Moslems aren't always averse to arresting those Arabs-Moslems who are a threat.

Five Hamas members arrested over Egyptian police massacre


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

More insanity from the loopy Arab-Islamist Death Cult.



Palestinian “Martyr” actively sought his own death: “I have decided to die as a Martyr” - PMW Bulletins

*Palestinian “Martyr” actively sought his own death,
parted with relatives the day before he died:
“I’m sick of life... I have decided to die as a Martyr”


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al Khatahtbeh*

**


----------



## Hollie

More Death Cult insanity.

Eyup. Even female Splodeydopes can share in the Death Cult.

Female Palestinian students’ “role model” is terrorist who led murder of 37   - PMW Bulletins

*Female Palestinian university students taught to view 
terrorist Dalal Mughrabi who led murder of 37 
as "role model"

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Laila Al-Marayati*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hala Alyan*
Starts @ 1:30

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Huwaida Arraf from Witness Bahrain after deportation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Oh, dear. An islamic terrorist lashing.



Abbas and his advisor lash out at Trump and US ambassadors - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
*Abbas and his advisor lash out at Trump 
and US ambassadors, *
*reject US aid





Lash away, Mahmoud. Just remember that when the welfare fraud recipients on your payroll come demanding their salaries, they will become rats biting at your heels when their welfare checks bounce.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.


Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip

*Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*

Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.

Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> 
> Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip
> 
> *Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*
> 
> Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.
> 
> Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.


Cool, make Israel spend more money.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> 
> Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip
> 
> *Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*
> 
> Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.
> 
> Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, make Israel spend more money.
Click to expand...



Why do the Palestinians go thru tunnels?  Are they rats?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool, make Israel spend more money.



Make it pointless for Hamas to spend money on tunnels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> 
> Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip
> 
> *Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*
> 
> Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.
> 
> Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, make Israel spend more money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the Palestinians go thru tunnels?  Are they rats?
Click to expand...

Why do Israelis fly planes? Are they turkeys?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, make Israel spend more money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make it pointless for Hamas to spend money on tunnels.
Click to expand...

What will Israel do when the Palestinians start false alarming those sensors?

More money. More money.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> 
> Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip
> 
> *Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*
> 
> Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.
> 
> Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, make Israel spend more money.
Click to expand...

Death by a thousand cuts, the Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.


----------



## Lastamender

> That is, the Palestinian people were invented 91 years ago.


Yes, Palestinians Are an Invented People | RealClearWorld

This how Palestine became "Palestine Today".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Extraordinary measures are required to repel the Islamic terrorist tunnel rats.
> 
> 
> Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip
> 
> *Israel unveils details of new underground wall along Gaza Strip*
> 
> Kissufim (Israel) (AFP) - The Israeli army on Thursday revealed details of a massive underground barrier being built along the border with the Gaza Strip in a bid to neutralise the threat of Palestinian attack tunnels.
> 
> Eventually stretching some 65 kilometres (41 miles), the concrete wall will be accompanied by motion sensors designed to detect tunnel digging and is expected to be completed by mid-2019.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, make Israel spend more money.
Click to expand...


Israel will do what is required to defend itself from Islamic terrorists. I suppose you’re OK with Arabs-Moslems spending their welfare checks on Islamic terrorist infrastructure as opposed to, you know, indoor plumbing?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
Click to expand...

That’s not what Ahed Tamimi’s days look like. The 16-year-old Palestinian girl is going to sleep in an Israeli prison cell tonight, imprisoned without bail while awaiting trial in an Israeli military court to face a 10-year sentence. Why? This child had the audacity to slap a fully armed Israeli soldier who had entered her family’s home, after watching them shoot her 14-year-old cousin in the head earlier that day. According to Amnesty International, “it was clear she posed no actual threat to them – as they lightly swatted her advances away.” She joins at least 350 other Palestinian children under the age of 18 who are presently detained in Israeli prisons.

This is why I chose to decline Revlon’s Changemaker Award in celebration of your new campaign. I couldn’t do so knowing that your popular support of Israeli military actions in Palestine had contributed to this disproportionate harm on women and children. To do so would have been turning a blind eye to the plight of women and girls like Ahed. I’m writing this because I want to make it clear that this is not about you or me. This is about the moral obligation of privileged women like ourselves to rise to the moment of demanding freedom for Ahed and that of countless other girls like her.

By making this statement, what I’m saying is not that I refuse to work with those with differing opinions than me. Transformative change requires the alliance of different forms of engagement. But don’t mistake inhumanity as a difference of opinion. There’s something to be said about the fact that for some women like me, it necessitates making a bold gesture like rejecting hard-earned accolades just to be heard. What I’m saying is that #TimesUp not just for the women of Hollywood, but also for the women and girls that are invisibly suffering because of fundamental inequality, misrepresentation and negligent complacency.

I obviously don’t think we’re going to solve all the world’s problems simply by refusing awards or making social media posts, and far from eradicating all the forms of oppression that women must endure around the world. But if there’s one thing Ahed’s story has taught me, it’s that we can all use whatever cards we’ve been dealt, whatever seemingly inconsequential yet potent positions we are in, to shine a light on injustice when the opportunity arises. In fact, it is our duty to do so, for the sake of the girls.

In love and sisterhood,

Amani

http://muslimgirl.com/46874/dear-gal-gadot-timesup-invisible-girls/


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s not what Ahed Tamimi’s days look like. The 16-year-old Palestinian girl is going to sleep in an Israeli prison cell tonight, imprisoned without bail while awaiting trial in an Israeli military court to face a 10-year sentence. Why? This child had the audacity to slap a fully armed Israeli soldier who had entered her family’s home, after watching them shoot her 14-year-old cousin in the head earlier that day. According to Amnesty International, “it was clear she posed no actual threat to them – as they lightly swatted her advances away.” She joins at least 350 other Palestinian children under the age of 18 who are presently detained in Israeli prisons.
> 
> This is why I chose to decline Revlon’s Changemaker Award in celebration of your new campaign. I couldn’t do so knowing that your popular support of Israeli military actions in Palestine had contributed to this disproportionate harm on women and children. To do so would have been turning a blind eye to the plight of women and girls like Ahed. I’m writing this because I want to make it clear that this is not about you or me. This is about the moral obligation of privileged women like ourselves to rise to the moment of demanding freedom for Ahed and that of countless other girls like her.
> 
> By making this statement, what I’m saying is not that I refuse to work with those with differing opinions than me. Transformative change requires the alliance of different forms of engagement. But don’t mistake inhumanity as a difference of opinion. There’s something to be said about the fact that for some women like me, it necessitates making a bold gesture like rejecting hard-earned accolades just to be heard. What I’m saying is that #TimesUp not just for the women of Hollywood, but also for the women and girls that are invisibly suffering because of fundamental inequality, misrepresentation and negligent complacency.
> 
> I obviously don’t think we’re going to solve all the world’s problems simply by refusing awards or making social media posts, and far from eradicating all the forms of oppression that women must endure around the world. But if there’s one thing Ahed’s story has taught me, it’s that we can all use whatever cards we’ve been dealt, whatever seemingly inconsequential yet potent positions we are in, to shine a light on injustice when the opportunity arises. In fact, it is our duty to do so, for the sake of the girls.
> 
> In love and sisterhood,
> 
> Amani
> 
> http://muslimgirl.com/46874/dear-gal-gadot-timesup-invisible-girls/
Click to expand...



And all these years, watching her videos, I thought she was an obnoxious, bratty and temper-filled girl, continuously and hysterically provoking Israeli security who have the kind of self-restraint that no American policeman would have had in similar circumstances.  It's also funny that a video-camera always seemed to be around at the right time to tape these extreme provocations.  

On another note, I wonder why Jose and monte don't post her pictures with the question,  "Is this what a real Middle Easterner and Semite would look like?"  After all, they always did that with pictures of blonde Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> And all these years, watching her videos, I thought she was an obnoxious, bratty and temper-filled girl,


In contrast to the criminal IDF.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


>


What clause does aiming and shooting rockets at Israelis violate?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Uncensored2008

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians?



ISIS Terrorists.



> What are they doing?



Engaging in terrorist acts against Jews and Christians.



> How do they live?



On welfare provided by the Jews they engage in terrorism against.

Why do you ask?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.


Thousands of Palestinians can't make it either.

Do you have a point?


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>


Very Beautiful Woman Tinnie


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.


AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families


----------



## Lastamender

theliq said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
Click to expand...

Should we send them a check?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yeah Tinnie,Zionist Israeli JUSTICE......equates to SHIT,say no more


P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## theliq

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN*
> *YAWN*
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That’s not what Ahed Tamimi’s days look like. The 16-year-old Palestinian girl is going to sleep in an Israeli prison cell tonight, imprisoned without bail while awaiting trial in an Israeli military court to face a 10-year sentence. Why? This child had the audacity to slap a fully armed Israeli soldier who had entered her family’s home, after watching them shoot her 14-year-old cousin in the head earlier that day. According to Amnesty International, “it was clear she posed no actual threat to them – as they lightly swatted her advances away.” She joins at least 350 other Palestinian children under the age of 18 who are presently detained in Israeli prisons.
> 
> This is why I chose to decline Revlon’s Changemaker Award in celebration of your new campaign. I couldn’t do so knowing that your popular support of Israeli military actions in Palestine had contributed to this disproportionate harm on women and children. To do so would have been turning a blind eye to the plight of women and girls like Ahed. I’m writing this because I want to make it clear that this is not about you or me. This is about the moral obligation of privileged women like ourselves to rise to the moment of demanding freedom for Ahed and that of countless other girls like her.
> 
> By making this statement, what I’m saying is not that I refuse to work with those with differing opinions than me. Transformative change requires the alliance of different forms of engagement. But don’t mistake inhumanity as a difference of opinion. There’s something to be said about the fact that for some women like me, it necessitates making a bold gesture like rejecting hard-earned accolades just to be heard. What I’m saying is that #TimesUp not just for the women of Hollywood, but also for the women and girls that are invisibly suffering because of fundamental inequality, misrepresentation and negligent complacency.
> 
> I obviously don’t think we’re going to solve all the world’s problems simply by refusing awards or making social media posts, and far from eradicating all the forms of oppression that women must endure around the world. But if there’s one thing Ahed’s story has taught me, it’s that we can all use whatever cards we’ve been dealt, whatever seemingly inconsequential yet potent positions we are in, to shine a light on injustice when the opportunity arises. In fact, it is our duty to do so, for the sake of the girls.
> 
> In love and sisterhood,
> 
> Amani
> 
> Dear Gal Gadot: #TimesUp for Invisible Girls, Too - Muslim Girl
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And all these years, watching her videos, I thought she was an obnoxious, bratty and temper-filled girl, continuously and hysterically provoking Israeli security who have the kind of self-restraint that no American policeman would have had in similar circumstances.  It's also funny that a video-camera always seemed to be around at the right time to tape these extreme provocations.
> 
> On another note, I wonder why Jose and monte don't post her pictures with the question,  "Is this what a real Middle Easterner and Semite would look like?"  After all, they always did that with pictures of blonde Israelis.
Click to expand...


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What clause does aiming and shooting rockets at Israelis violate?
Click to expand...

Redemption


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




How to prepare financially for time in prison


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




6 Prison Tips to Increase Your Mental Toughness


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians and Israelis activists stoped Israeli bulldozers,Nil'in, west Bank*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Discussion with Haidar Eid and Mazin Qumsiyeh.*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Journalist Nasser Al-Laham: The Jews Rule Washington, Just Like They Rule Tel Aviv


----------



## Hollie

Ahh, yes. The Arab-Moslem Death Cult aka “Pal’istanians”. 

No surprise that they are just a collection of islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mazin Qumsiyeh - Palestine Solidarity Conference*

**
**
**


----------



## Hollie

Don’t think Islamic terrorist retrogrades, think “Peace Partners”


----------



## Hollie

I know, right?

The first thing that comes to mind is women who are self-empowered in spite of the retrograde politico-religious ideology that forces them into Shame-Sacks, as opposed to women who are treated as mere property by a seriously insecure and intellectually / emotionally stunted bunch of men who literally despise women.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Syrians would shoot down on Israeli farms from the Golan Heights.  Jordan bombarded West Jerusalem during the 6-Day-War of 1967.  And Hezbollah continued to throw rockets at Israel from Lebanon, even after Israel withdrew its forces from there.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Aww, St. Ahed...Tissues please.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  et al,

Almost any sovereignty that can create laws and exercise regime authority has, as a consequence, a decision making process that feels and responds to _(in some fashion)_ the political influence and legitimacy from competing sources that are centered outside the decision making process itself.  While there are many factors internal to the inner workings and hidden mechanisms of government and the decision making process, the issue here is a direct complaint, usually made by an inferior influence or contaminated source, suggesting that "the Jews rule" Washington.  It is an attempt to quietly imply that pro-Israeli advocates radiate some sort of force that effects the governing conduct within America • particular activity or spheres that are favorable to Israel.  In terms of "rule" → it implies resources both internal and external to the decision making process.

It also, ever so delicately, suttlely ad precise, suggest that both the executive branch and the legislative branch are under the influence of a foreign power.bn ,bhhj



Hollie said:


> Palestinian Journalist Nasser Al-Laham: The Jews Rule Washington, Just Like They Rule Tel Aviv


*(COMMENT)*

With political legitimacy comes the associated obligations; obligations to the people of the realm and the obligation to the invested determination of the majority.

In the utilitarian view, the legitimate political authority of the Jewish State is well grounded on the principle of utility. This conception of legitimacy is necessarily a moralized one: the legitimacy of political authority depends on what morality requires.  In the case of the Jewish State, it operates largely under normative ethics holding that the best practice _(given the circumstances of the time)_, and morality of the action _(given the customary law specific to the region) _is the one that maximizes utility of the resources, capacity and capabilities of the Israeli nation _(the citizenry experiences in a practical way the Beneficial Consequences)_.  Israel is a nation that values rational prudence.

*IF*, as in the case of the Arab Palestinians, the citizenry fail to experience consequences as a result of the ineffectual leadership, policies and economic trends, *THEN* that failed leadership will eventually loose the trust and confidence required to maintain effective control and sovereign authority.

One of the many important Beneficial Consequences is the application of such cordial relations as to entice positive political-military, economic, commercial, research and development, and the integration of resulting science and technological advantages derived therefrom.  Yes, the Jewish State attempts to cultivate such  beneficial relationships .  This is very different from the Case of the Arab Palestinian which carries the principle objectives of attempting to interrupt allied relations of the Israeli.

There is a huge difference in the Arab Palestinian attempting to interdict, disrupt, undermine and destroy the positive foreign relations with that of the Jewish State, → as apposed to Israeli development of mutual beneficial relationships.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually, all _you_ wish is to have disposable Arabs-Moslems to use as a means to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Free from what?  

Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Almost any sovereignty that can create laws and exercise regime authority has, as a consequence, a decision making process that feels and responds to _(in some fashion)_ the political influence and legitimacy from competing sources that are centered outside the decision making process itself.  While there are many factors internal to the inner workings and hidden mechanisms of government and the decision making process, the issue here is a direct complaint, usually made by an inferior influence or contaminated source, suggesting that "the Jews rule" Washington.  It is an attempt to quietly imply that pro-Israeli advocates radiate some sort of force that effects the governing conduct within America • particular activity or spheres that are favorable to Israel.  In terms of "rule" → it implies resources both internal and external to the decision making process.
> 
> It also, ever so delicately, suttlely ad precise, suggest that both the executive branch and the legislative branch are under the influence of a foreign power.bn ,bhhj
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Journalist Nasser Al-Laham: The Jews Rule Washington, Just Like They Rule Tel Aviv
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With political legitimacy comes the associated obligations; obligations to the people of the realm and the obligation to the invested determination of the majority.
> 
> In the utilitarian view, the legitimate political authority of the Jewish State is well grounded on the principle of utility. This conception of legitimacy is necessarily a moralized one: the legitimacy of political authority depends on what morality requires.  In the case of the Jewish State, it operates largely under normative ethics holding that the best practice _(given the circumstances of the time)_, and morality of the action _(given the customary law specific to the region) _is the one that maximizes utility of the resources, capacity and capabilities of the Israeli nation _(the citizenry experiences in a practical way the Beneficial Consequences)_.  Israel is a nation that values rational prudence.
> 
> *IF*, as in the case of the Arab Palestinians, the citizenry fail to experience consequences as a result of the ineffectual leadership, policies and economic trends, *THEN* that failed leadership will eventually loose the trust and confidence required to maintain effective control and sovereign authority.
> 
> One of the many important Beneficial Consequences is the application of such cordial relations as to entice positive political-military, economic, commercial, research and development, and the integration of resulting science and technological advantages derived therefrom.  Yes, the Jewish State attempts to cultivate such  beneficial relationships .  This is very different from the Case of the Arab Palestinian which carries the principle objectives of attempting to interrupt allied relations of the Israeli.
> 
> There is a huge difference in the Arab Palestinian attempting to interdict, disrupt, undermine and destroy the positive foreign relations with that of the Jewish State, → as apposed to Israeli development of mutual beneficial relationships.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Dogmaphobe

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, St. Ahed...Tissues please.
Click to expand...



 What I find amusing is that  if a picture of a similar looking Israeli were posted, the insane Pallywood zealots would be beside themselves with calls of "European colonists" and all the rest of the silly crap they have been trained to parrot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Song on PA radio encourages Martyrdom for Jerusalem - PMW Bulletins

Song on official PA radio encourages Martyrdom:*
*"Jerusalem... redeem it with your life and blood"

Muhammud (swish). Author of the “kill the Jews” Death Cult.

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2018-01/ahedtamimiadalahnypodcast.mp3


----------



## Hollie

Yes, because (Islamist) children are disposable.


KIDS AT HAMAS RALLY IN GAZA: TRUMP, YOU IDIOT, NETANYAHU, YOU SON OF A JEWISH WOMAN, THE CHILDREN OF GAZA WILL TRAMPLE YOU UNDERFOOT

<iframe src="Kids at Hamas Rally in Gaza: Trump, You Idiot, Netanyahu, You Son of a Jewish Woman, the Children of Gaza Will Trample You Underfoot" width="960" height="540" frameborder="0"></iframe>


It’s truly a disturbing look into the gaping maw of misfits and psychopaths


----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 Years of the Palestine Festival of Literature*

**


----------



## Hollie

A Death Cult festival


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


>


So What,compared to the Zionist Terrorists Murderers the Hamas Freedom Fighters have every right to defend their HOMELAND.......Let us NOT FORGET THAT THE ZIONISTS WERE THE ORIGINAL TERRORISTS and taught the likes of ISIS


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> A Death Cult festival


NO HOLLIE,Freedom Fighters for their own Land......Let the World Rise Up Against the Zionist Terrorists and Chuck them out of the Holy Land,They are Unholy....and deserve Banishment back to their Converted Country of Origin.

How Real Jews,Palestinians and the world will Celebrate..........The problem is not between Real Jews and Palestinians because they have lived prior to 1948 in harmony,,,,,both these Semitic Peoples(Cousins in actual fact) WANT RID OF THE NONE REAL-JEWISH CONVERTS THAT HAVE SWAMPED AND CAMPED ILLEGALY IN PALESTINE....time to go Zionists,purveyors of War Crimes..But Where You Gonna Run To,Where You Gonna Hide...Sinners,Converts & Terrorists


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should we send them a check?
Click to expand...

No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW


----------



## Lastamender

theliq said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should we send them a check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
Click to expand...

There is no Palestine, except on the internet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

From Oakland to New York, Boston, St. Louis, Chicago, New Haven, Milwaukee, and more. JVPers and allies stood up to Trump's agenda, for justice in Israel/Palestine and to Free Ahed Tamimi


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

No bail - stay in jail.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> No bail - stay in jail.


Looks like monkey island.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
Click to expand...



WTF does that mean?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
Click to expand...


You're just incensed that infidel justice supercedes your preferred Islamist sharia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> WTF does that mean?
Click to expand...

Well, except for the kangaroo on the bench.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just incensed that infidel justice supercedes your preferred Islamist sharia.
Click to expand...

Off topic. There is no Sharia involved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just incensed that infidel justice supercedes your preferred Islamist sharia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. There is no Sharia involved.
Click to expand...


Indeed, infidel justice is vastly different from religious totalitarianism that defines sharia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just incensed that infidel justice supercedes your preferred Islamist sharia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. There is no Sharia involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, infidel justice is vastly different from religious totalitarianism that defines sharia.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

It won't work, Mahmoud. While your posing as the angry Islamist may play well for a time, your replacement Islamist dictator-in-charge may already be plotting. The infidel welfare fraud money that you exploit is drying up. You will be less than useless when the legions of welfare fraud recipients are faced with a pay cut. 


*


Palestinians burn posters of Pence; Fatah: “Trump’s house will be destroyed” - PMW Bulletins

Abbas' Fatah to the US: "Trump's house will be destroyed"*
*Palestinians burn posters of US Vice President Pence*


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No bail - stay in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like monkey island.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're just incensed that infidel justice supercedes your preferred Islamist sharia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. There is no Sharia involved.
Click to expand...

Where Islam is involved, and we know Palestinians are Islamic terrorists, Sharia is always involved. It is what they are fighting for.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


>


Facebook is biased bullshit. Use something that is credible. The whine of murderers(Islamic terrorists, not Palestinians) is getting old.


----------



## harmonica

the Pals are so F&^Ked up, the Arabs--their own kind!!-- don't even want them
Black September Organization - Wikipedia


----------



## harmonica

the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia

they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE


----------



## Lastamender

harmonica said:


> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE


That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
Click to expand...

Which Olympics did Israelis kill athletes, the year please.


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
Click to expand...

please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
they do not kill civilians as policy

sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy


----------



## P F Tinmore

harmonica said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
Click to expand...




harmonica said:


> sure, mistakes are made


Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
Click to expand...

Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Pals murder innocent civilians to include people in WHEELCHAIRS
> Achille Lauro hijacking - Wikipedia
> 
> they attacked world peace in 1972 and murder athletes at what is supposed to be games of PEACE
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
Click to expand...

Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
Click to expand...

When rockets and other weapons are stored or deployed in and from neighborhoods that happens. Once again, terrorists will be killed by Israelis, and should be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When rockets and other weapons are stored or deployed in and from neighborhoods that happens. Once again, terrorists will be killed by Israelis, and should be.
Click to expand...

Oh boy, another expert on Israeli talking points.

We have several of those here already.


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
Click to expand...

just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

harmonica said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
Click to expand...

So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?
Click to expand...

please show me how the Israelis commit terrorist acts like the Pals:
Munich 1972
Achille Lauro 
School bus attack
Avivim school bus bombing - Wikipedia
etc etc


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
Click to expand...



The Palestinian Hamasniks hide behind the skirts of their women and children.  What other country drops leaflets before an attack, warning civilians to flee?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what terrorist do. Palestinians are just Islamic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

harmonica said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please show me how the Israelis commit terrorist acts like the Pals:
> Munich 1972
> Achille Lauro
> School bus attack
> Avivim school bus bombing - Wikipedia
> etc etc
Click to expand...


And Israel does not target civilians?

What a load of Zionist horseshit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?
Click to expand...


How about schools and civilian areas? Your heroes are such sniveling cowards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Hamasniks hide behind the skirts of their women and children.  What other country drops leaflets before an attack, warning civilians to flee?
Click to expand...

Run so we can bomb your house.

How nice. Why thank you.


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please show me how the Israelis commit terrorist acts like the Pals:
> Munich 1972
> Achille Lauro
> School bus attack
> Avivim school bus bombing - Wikipedia
> etc etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel does not target civilians?
> 
> What a load of Zionist horseshit.
Click to expand...

what's your point??
civilians died here by Israelis killing them?? I don't see it
please explain


----------



## harmonica

Israelis don't directly target civilians as policy
it's that simple
you have not proved otherwise


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

harmonica said:


> Israelis don't directly target civilians as policy
> it's that simple
> you have not proved otherwise


So, who does Israel think lives in civilian homes.

Oh, that's right, thinking is the Zionist's short suit.


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis don't directly target civilians as policy
> it's that simple
> you have not proved otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> So, who does Israel think lives in civilian homes.
> 
> Oh, that's right, thinking is the Zionist's short suit.
Click to expand...

terrorists live in homes--just like Osama's family got it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
Click to expand...



Till it gets thru his thick skull.


----------



## harmonica

let me say it again:
Israel has shown enormous restraint in not shoving the Pals into the sea--after decades of what the Pals have done


----------



## fanger

harmonica said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just like Iraq did in the Gulf War, they put military equipment/etc in civilian areas--that is the terrorists' fault--not Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Hamas hid rockets in thousands of Palestinian homes?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> please show me how the Israelis commit terrorist acts like the Pals:
> Munich 1972
> Achille Lauro
> School bus attack
> Avivim school bus bombing - Wikipedia
> etc etc
Click to expand...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

harmonica said:


> let me say it again:
> Israel has shown enormous restraint in not shoving the Pals into the sea--after decades of what the Pals have done




Just like those soldiers showed restraint when that obnoxious brat Ahed kept hitting and kicking them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pikers compare to the Israeli terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
Click to expand...

Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.

Your numbers do not add up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> let me say it again:
> Israel has shown enormous restraint in not shoving the Pals into the sea--after decades of what the Pals have done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like those soldiers showed restraint when that obnoxious brat Ahed kept hitting and kicking them.
Click to expand...

Do you mean those invading foreign troops?


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
Click to expand...

thousands?? please prove this
you mean over decades

the terrorists don't have military bases/uniforms/etc 
if terrorists are in a Pal neighborhood, the Israelis have every right to *target those terrorists
*
there is usually friendly fire/civilian deaths in war
the US unintentionally hit a hospital--they did not target it


----------



## harmonica

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
Click to expand...

please provide your links to the many times the Israelis targeted civilians


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
Click to expand...

They add up fine. If those people killed because Israel is defending against terror it is fine with me.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> let me say it again:
> Israel has shown enormous restraint in not shoving the Pals into the sea--after decades of what the Pals have done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like those soldiers showed restraint when that obnoxious brat Ahed kept hitting and kicking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean those invading foreign troops?
Click to expand...

It is Israel no matter what you and Islamic terrorists say. Deal with it, Israel will continue to defend their country. I do not think how many they have to kill to do that matters.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> please do not try to compare Israelis to terrorists--
> they do not kill civilians as policy
> 
> sure, mistakes are made and you have rogue attacks--just as in the US military, etc--but it is NOTHING like the Pals/muslims/islamist/etc attacks
> the Israelis don't go around and gather up innocent civilians to KILL as policy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure, mistakes are made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Hamasniks hide behind the skirts of their women and children.  What other country drops leaflets before an attack, warning civilians to flee?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Run so we can bomb your house.
> 
> How nice. Why thank you.
Click to expand...

If they are ignorant enough to live there and ignorant enough to ignore warnings, shit happens.


----------



## Roudy

Palestine today...same Islamic shithole of terror, intolerance, and barbarism it was yesterday.


----------



## harmonica

Roudy said:


> Palestine today...same Islamic shithole of terror, intolerance, and barbarism it was yesterday.


after $$$ millions of US aid !!


----------



## Roudy

harmonica said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine today...same Islamic shithole of terror, intolerance, and barbarism it was yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> after $$$ millions of US aid !!
Click to expand...

No amount of money can fix their warped mentality.  They are like the Nazis, unconditional defeat and surrender is the only solution.


----------



## harmonica

Roudy said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine today...same Islamic shithole of terror, intolerance, and barbarism it was yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> after $$$ millions of US aid !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of money can fix their warped mentality.  They are like the Nazis, unconditional defeat and surrender is the only solution.
Click to expand...

that's why you had so many Arab-Israeli wars--there was no total defeat in any of the wars


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Israel is the oops capital of the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They add up fine. If those people killed because Israel is defending against terror it is fine with me.
Click to expand...

So now you are going to play the terrorist card. You must be out of bullets.


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists, Palestinians, are the same thing. Let's hope those Israeli mistakes don't mistake Palestinians for anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel bombs entire neighborhoods of family homes and claims they do not target civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorist Pal'istanians use civilian areas as places to wage war. Those civilian areas become targets. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They add up fine. If those people killed because Israel is defending against terror it is fine with me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now you are going to play the terrorist card. You must be out of bullets.
Click to expand...

Because ya know...Palestinians never commit terrorism or anything like that.  They're these angels that walk on water, right?


----------



## Roudy

harmonica said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine today...same Islamic shithole of terror, intolerance, and barbarism it was yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> after $$$ millions of US aid !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of money can fix their warped mentality.  They are like the Nazis, unconditional defeat and surrender is the only solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's why you had so many Arab-Israeli wars--there was no total defeat in any of the wars
Click to expand...

Once defeated, the Israelis took their foot of the gas.  For example, in an effort to show tolerance after the Arabs suffered a humiliating defeat in 1967, they allowed Arab Muslim control of the Al Aqsa mosque, one of the main contributing factors to the violence and terror we see today.  Had the Israelis totally occupied and controlled the mosque, it would have signaled the end of Islamic reign over ancient Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.



What is the international standard with respect to fighters placing themselves in the midst of civilians?  When this happens who bears the responsibility for those civilian deaths?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean those invading foreign troops?



It is a basic, inherent obligation on sovereigns to provide law enforcement.


----------



## Shusha

Lastamender said:


> I do not think how many they have to kill to do that matters.



I agree.  The number of deaths relates to the number of attackers and the position from which they attack.  As long as people keep attacking Israel and her citizens -- people are going to die.  Does it suck?  Big time.  Is Israel going to stop defending herself, Israeli citizens and the Jewish people worldwide?  Not.  A.  Chance. 

If the Arab Palestinians want Arab Palestinians to stop dying -- then they need to stop attacking Israel, her citizens and Jewish people.  Period.  End of story.  No attacks.  No further deaths.  Not one.  It will stop tomorrow.


----------



## harmonica

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel bombs thousands of Palestinian home yet only kill a couple hundred fighters.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the international standard with respect to fighters placing themselves in the midst of civilians?  When this happens who bears the responsibility for those civilian deaths?
Click to expand...

on Geneva Convention rights


> These rights are designed for professional soldiers who are duty-bound to fight for their nation-not for criminals, and certainly not for terrorists


https://scholarship.law.berkeley.ed...om/&httpsredir=1&article=1926&context=facpubs



> Neither may the presence of civilian persons be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.


https://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/files/other/icrc_002_0365.pdf
this is obvious

here is a great example:
in the Battle for Mogadishu, most of the casualties were *civilians --*


> Ambassador Robert B. Oakley, the U.S. special representative to Somalia, is quoted as saying: "My own personal estimate is that there must have been 1,500 to 2,000 Somalis killed and wounded that day, because that battle was a true battle. And the Americans and those who came to their rescue, were being shot at from all sides ... a deliberate war battle, if you will, on the part of the Somalis. *And women and children were being used as shields and some cases women and children were actually firing weapons,* and were coming from all sides


Battle of Mogadishu (1993) - Wikipedia
obviously the US soldiers were not wrong

like I said, the terrorists do not have bases/uniforms/areas of battle/etc
they attack civilians--against any rules and they are not soldiers of a recognized nation

like a lot of rule books, they can just really be _guide_ books--for there are many different situations with many aspects

I remember reading how the Arabs would put AA missiles/guns near schools during Israel's Lebanon campaign
obviously the Arabs are to blame for any civilian deaths--not Israelis

however, the victors write the rules---but as I've stated in many threads, many, many wars do not end like WW2 did [ I can't think of any recent ones at all ]


----------



## Lastamender

> *The Big Palestinian Lie*
> * End the “Palestinian” occupation of Israel. *



The Big Palestinian Lie


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should we send them a check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
Click to expand...

Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh*

*Using Students As a Commodity, And the Propaganda Train Pushing for US Intervention in Syria

*


----------



## fanger

Lastamender said:


> *The Big Palestinian Lie*
> * End the “Palestinian” occupation of Israel. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Big Palestinian Lie
Click to expand...

let me guess Daniel Greenfield is an israeli?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Lastamender said:


> *The Big Palestinian Lie*
> * End the “Palestinian” occupation of Israel. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Big Palestinian Lie
Click to expand...



Excellent article.  Every week, the Palestinians come up with another ancient people that they're descended from, whether it's the Canaanites, Phoenicians, Philistines or Jews.  Their surnames, like al-Masri, prove that they're from places like Egypt.  (Misraim means Egypt in Hebrew and Arabic.)  In short, the Palestinians are Arabs, plain and simple.  Arabs are from Arabia and Jews are from Judea (also known as Israel).


----------



## Lastamender

theliq said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meet the Fogels, sorry they can't make it.
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Should we send them a check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
Click to expand...

Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND NEITHER CAN 200,000 Palestinian Families
> 
> 
> 
> Should we send them a check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

YAWN Dickhead


----------



## Lastamender

theliq said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should we send them a check?
> 
> 
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
Click to expand...

And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
Click to expand...

You played the terrorist card.

Another point for you.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
Click to expand...

Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> 
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
Click to expand...

You people bang away for years on the same one incident.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

Oh my, and another terrorist card.


----------



## theliq

Lastamender said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> No need,Just Get Out of Palestine....NOW
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
Click to expand...

You are an Idiot.....Most Palestinians in Israel are Galilians and this area of Israel should now be annexed much like Kosovo was in Serbia to become a Palestinian State


----------



## ForeverYoung436

theliq said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no Palestine, except on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Dick & Head..Suck It Up,Lick It Up.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are an Idiot.....Most Palestinians in Israel are Galilians and this area of Israel should now be annexed much like Kosovo was in Serbia to become a Palestinian State
Click to expand...


Let me get this straight.  So now, in addition to the West Bank and Gaza, you also want the Galilee to become part of a Palestinian state?  What will be left of Israel?  Tel-Aviv?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such a mature response. Goes well with an imaginary people and the real Islamic terrorists known as the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
Click to expand...


Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone. 

But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN Dickhead
> 
> 
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
Click to expand...

It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorists take their eternal war against Jews where ever they go.


----------



## Shusha

Lastamender said:


> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?



According to several of our members the Fogel children, like the Salomon family, were legitimate targets and murdering them was both legally and morally permissible.  Therefore, not terrorists but righteous.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that helps your argument how? Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
Click to expand...


When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.


----------



## Lastamender

Shusha said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to several of our members the Fogel children, like the Salomon family, were legitimate targets and murdering them was both legally and morally permissible.  Therefore, not terrorists but righteous.
Click to expand...

In Islam it is permissible to kill Jews and is an obligation just like jihad. If they say killing children is righteous doesn't that tell you enough.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorists take their eternal war against Jews where ever they go.
Click to expand...

More name calling. You must be out of bullets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You played the terrorist card.
> 
> Another point for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.
Click to expand...

Interesting that there is no border there. It is all the same place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Reporting on Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that there is no border there. It is all the same place.
Click to expand...


Nice dodge. Not at all interesting or surprising that you hoisted the flag of surrender when confronted with the reality that your islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas and then like you, they whine about the expected israeli response.

You ISIS wannabes are a hoot.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Were the Fogel's children killed by anything else but terrorists?
> 
> 
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorists take their eternal war against Jews where ever they go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More name calling. You must be out of bullets.
Click to expand...

It is not name calling when those people are Islamic terrorists. They have proven they are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Islamic terrorists take their eternal war against Jews where ever they go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More name calling. You must be out of bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not name calling when those people are Islamic terrorists. They have proven they are.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, more name calling.

What else you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people bang away for years on the same one incident.
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Oh my, and another terrorist card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that there is no border there. It is all the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge. Not at all interesting or surprising that you hoisted the flag of surrender when confronted with the reality that your islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas and then like you, they whine about the expected israeli response.
> 
> You ISIS wannabes are a hoot.
Click to expand...

Is this the name calling thread?


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that there is no border there. It is all the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge. Not at all interesting or surprising that you hoisted the flag of surrender when confronted with the reality that your islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas and then like you, they whine about the expected israeli response.
> 
> You ISIS wannabes are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this the name calling thread?
Click to expand...

No, it is a thread that lets people know that Palestinians are Islamic terrorists. Everything serves a purpose.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Eva Bartlett: Human Rights and Justice in Gaza*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you should be applauding your heroes in Hamas who put civilians in a war zone.
> 
> But then, you do have a "thing" for parading around dead bodies.
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's war and Israel's war zone. Israel put its war in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When islamic terrorists attack Israel with rocket fire, that is an act of war. That is islamic terrorists bringing war to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting that there is no border there. It is all the same place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice dodge. Not at all interesting or surprising that you hoisted the flag of surrender when confronted with the reality that your islamic terrorist heroes wage war from civilian areas and then like you, they whine about the expected israeli response.
> 
> You ISIS wannabes are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this the name calling thread?
Click to expand...


This is the thread where you sidestep and deflect.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists on human rights and the lack thereof in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan.


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **


What is FUNNY IN THAT...Jillian????????


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Galilee Quartet: Playing for peace, love and humanity*
> 
> **


Is there something Mentally Wrong with you Jillian


----------



## Hollie

*Abbas repeats libel:*
*"Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians *
*in frightening amounts"

Abbas: "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians  in frightening amounts" - PMW Bulletins*




Just another symptom of the disease called “Islam”.


----------



## theliq

TNHarley said:


> Palestine today? I was just reading about Palestine
> 
> Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
> UK freezes $30m in Palestinian aid over salaries for terrorists
> I was like DAMN what a bunch of assholes


Shame you don't spend more time checking out Zionist War Crimes you know those NON-JEWS-NON-SEMITICS,you know that morphed into the IDF...but YOU ARE A ZIONIST TERRORIST,like all the Lackies that praised your uncouth post,I was GLAD YOU DID ACKNOWLEDGE PALESTINE THOUGH.....you see TN,you are but a minnow compared to me and the Palestinians,....Time for you to Leave Palestine......Close the Door on your way OUT.


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *"Shared Values, Shared Struggle": Ali Abunimah on Militarization in the US & Israel*
> 
> **


Tinnie,Thanks for the sequence of posts....I note that that Cretin keeps putting a Funny after each post,Degenerate


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists on human rights and the lack thereof in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan.


Fine,they can join,Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iran,Kazakstan,Kyjikistan,Dagastan,Tydjikistan,Azerbijan,Turkmenistan,Ubekistan etc,.BUT THEY CAN NEVER BE ANYWHERE AS BAD AS ZIONISTAN,THE WORLD LEADERS OF TERRORISM


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> *Eva Bartlett: Human Rights and Justice in Gaza*
> 
> **


Pallywood lies and exaggerations to cover for the Islamic terrorists known as Palestinians. As if anything could justify killing babies.


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> *Abbas repeats libel:
> "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians
> in frightening amounts"
> 
> Abbas: "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians  in frightening amounts" - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just another symptom of the disease called “Islam”.


Not Really Hollie,this statement by Abbas would not surprise me as the Zionists do massive trade in Body Parts and associated Blood Products.st


----------



## ForeverYoung436

theliq said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas repeats libel:
> "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians
> in frightening amounts"
> 
> Abbas: "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians  in frightening amounts" - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just another symptom of the disease called “Islam”.
> 
> 
> 
> Not Really Hollie,this statement by Abbas would not surprise me as the Zionists do massive trade in Body Parts and associated Blood Products.st
Click to expand...



Yes, of course, and we bake Passover matzohs with the blood of Christian children, and poison the wells.


----------



## TNHarley

theliq said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine today? I was just reading about Palestine
> 
> Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
> UK freezes $30m in Palestinian aid over salaries for terrorists
> I was like DAMN what a bunch of assholes
> 
> 
> 
> Shame you don't spend more time checking out Zionist War Crimes you know those NON-JEWS-NON-SEMITICS,you know that morphed into the IDF...but YOU ARE A ZIONIST TERRORIST,like all the Lackies that praised your uncouth post,I was GLAD YOU DID ACKNOWLEDGE PALESTINE THOUGH.....you see TN,you are but a minnow compared to me and the Palestinians,....Time for you to Leave Palestine......Close the Door on your way OUT.
Click to expand...

Lol i am far from a zionist. I dont give a shit about Israel either. I just think Palestinians are fucking morons. YUGE morons.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Abbas' deputy ignores US aid: The US administrations haven`t given us anything of substance  - PMW Bulletins
*
Fatah Deputy Chairman ignores billions of dollars
 
in US aid: 
"The American administrations... 
have not given the Palestinians anything of substance"*

*Palestinians should "strengthen the popular resistance *
*so the occupation will become expensive for Israel"

*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: [URL='http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/19138174/']Palestine Today[/URL]
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I guess I understand how this propaganda is suppose too go.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The video is titled:  "Today in Military Occupation."  It is kind-of funny in that I did not see any Israeli Military in the video.

What I did see is a pack of Hostile Arab Palestinians disturbing the peace and inciting violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ Hollie. et al,

Yes, there is some irony in this, that is for sure.



Hollie said:


> Abbas' deputy ignores US aid: The US administrations haven`t given us anything of substance  - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah Deputy Chairman ignores billions of dollars
> 
> in US aid:
> "The American administrations...
> have not given the Palestinians anything of substance"*
> 
> *Palestinians should "strengthen the popular resistance
> so the occupation will become expensive for Israel"*


*(CRS INFORMATION)*
*


 
*​*(COMMENT)*

As Mahmoud Abbas would say:  Nothing of substance here.



			
				EXCERPTS:  By Jessica Abrahams // 23 January 2018 said:
			
		

> The U.S. is responsible for a third of UNRWA’s budget, contributing $364 million last year (CY2017).
> 
> Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium are already among UNRWA’s top donors, contributing around $95 million collectively in 2017.
> 
> LONDON — A series of European donors have made immediate disbursements to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East in an effort to make up for funding withheld by the United States.
> 
> The funding has been released immediately — instead of in instalments or later in the year — in order to help the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees keep up its work after its biggest donor “froze” millions of dollars in planned funding.
> 
> Inside Development UN:  European donors fast-track UNRWA funding to plug US gap



It will be interesting to see how long the European Top Donors _(Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium)_ want to continue in making up the shortfall.  They can forestall the budget crunch fr half a year, but how much money will be available to make-up the difference come midyear if they already spent it to make-up the American shortfall in the beginning of the year.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, I guess I understand how this propaganda is suppose too go.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The video is titled:  "Today in Military Occupation."  It is kind-of funny in that I did not see any Israeli Military in the video.
> 
> What I did see is a pack of Hostile Arab Palestinians disturbing the peace and inciting violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

ForeverYoung436 said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abbas repeats libel:
> "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians
> in frightening amounts"
> 
> Abbas: "Israel is exporting drugs to the Palestinians  in frightening amounts" - PMW Bulletins*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just another symptom of the disease called “Islam”.
> 
> 
> 
> Not Really Hollie,this statement by Abbas would not surprise me as the Zionists do massive trade in Body Parts and associated Blood Products.st
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course, and we bake Passover matzohs with the blood of Christian children, and poison the wells.
Click to expand...

Well  I wouldn't go that far these days,but check out the Zionist Terrorists Groups,Stern etc.,and their revolting deeds prior to and after 1948...so in that regard you are close to the truth


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ Hollie. et al,
> 
> Yes, there is some irony in this, that is for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas' deputy ignores US aid: The US administrations haven`t given us anything of substance  - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah Deputy Chairman ignores billions of dollars
> 
> in US aid:
> "The American administrations...
> have not given the Palestinians anything of substance"*
> 
> *Palestinians should "strengthen the popular resistance
> so the occupation will become expensive for Israel"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(CRS INFORMATION)*
> *View attachment 173260
> *​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> As Mahmoud Abbas would say:  Nothing of substance here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS:  By Jessica Abrahams // 23 January 2018 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. is responsible for a third of UNRWA’s budget, contributing $364 million last year (CY2017).
> 
> Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium are already among UNRWA’s top donors, contributing around $95 million collectively in 2017.
> 
> LONDON — A series of European donors have made immediate disbursements to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East in an effort to make up for funding withheld by the United States.
> 
> The funding has been released immediately — instead of in instalments or later in the year — in order to help the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees keep up its work after its biggest donor “froze” millions of dollars in planned funding.
> 
> Inside Development UN:  European donors fast-track UNRWA funding to plug US gap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how long the European Top Donors _(Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium)_ want to continue in making up the shortfall.  They can forestall the budget crunch fr half a year, but how much money will be available to make-up the difference come midyear if they already spent it to make-up the American shortfall in the beginning of the year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I can see that the blustering and posturing by Abbas was intended to play to an expected audience. He was hoping for some Arab street-cred in the face of a US hold on millions of dollars showered on Abbas and his fraud syndicate. I clearly do not see other western nations in any hurry to fill the void left by the US withdrawal. Similarly, I don’t see other Arab-Moslem nations willing to fund the PA in any where near the amounts close to the shortfall created by the US. When the legions of welfare recipients and those employed by the PA in meaningless jobs begin to see the money train leaving the station, Abbas may have to deal with a collection of folks who will not hesitate to throw out the dictator who can’t deliver the welfare.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ Hollie. et al,
> 
> Yes, there is some irony in this, that is for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas' deputy ignores US aid: The US administrations haven`t given us anything of substance  - PMW Bulletins
> *
> Fatah Deputy Chairman ignores billions of dollars
> 
> in US aid:
> "The American administrations...
> have not given the Palestinians anything of substance"*
> 
> *Palestinians should "strengthen the popular resistance
> so the occupation will become expensive for Israel"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(CRS INFORMATION)*
> *View attachment 173260
> *​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> As Mahmoud Abbas would say:  Nothing of substance here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTS:  By Jessica Abrahams // 23 January 2018 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. is responsible for a third of UNRWA’s budget, contributing $364 million last year (CY2017).
> 
> Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium are already among UNRWA’s top donors, contributing around $95 million collectively in 2017.
> 
> LONDON — A series of European donors have made immediate disbursements to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East in an effort to make up for funding withheld by the United States.
> 
> The funding has been released immediately — instead of in instalments or later in the year — in order to help the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees keep up its work after its biggest donor “froze” millions of dollars in planned funding.
> 
> Inside Development UN:  European donors fast-track UNRWA funding to plug US gap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how long the European Top Donors _(Sweden, the Netherlands, and Belgium)_ want to continue in making up the shortfall.  They can forestall the budget crunch fr half a year, but how much money will be available to make-up the difference come midyear if they already spent it to make-up the American shortfall in the beginning of the year.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can see that the blustering and posturing by Abbas was intended to play to an expected audience. He was hoping for some Arab street-cred in the face of a US hold on millions of dollars showered on Abbas and his fraud syndicate. I clearly do not see other western nations in any hurry to fill the void left by the US withdrawal. Similarly, I don’t see other Arab-Moslem nations willing to fund the PA in any where near the amounts close to the shortfall created by the US. When the legions of welfare recipients and those employed by the PA in meaningless jobs begin to see the money train leaving the station, Abbas may have to deal with a collection of folks who will not hesitate to throw out the dictator who can’t deliver the welfare.
Click to expand...



Well, needless to say no Arab countries stepped up to the plate, but a couple of clueless European nations have foolishly done so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maqlouba in Ramallah! With the amazing Mrs Zarife and Mrs Aida! Palestinian Food*

**


----------



## Hollie

More of the strange delusions that haunt Arabs-Moslems.








PMW Bulletins
Fatah official presents all of Israel as “Palestine”
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
Jan. 26, 2018


*PA National Security Forces and PA Ministry of Education give out honorary plaques with the PA map of “Palestine” denying Israel's existence*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Arabs: Why do you wear Hijab?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Food - ARABIC FEAST in Bethlehem + Jesus Birthplace in West Bank, Palestine!*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Abbas padlocked the parliament in 2007. There has been no over site since then.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas padlocked the parliament in 2007. There has been no over site since then.
Click to expand...

Terrorists need killing, not over site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas padlocked the parliament in 2007. There has been no over site since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists need killing, not over site.
Click to expand...

Is playing the terrorist card all you have?

Sad.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas padlocked the parliament in 2007. There has been no over site since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Terrorists need killing, not over site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is playing the terrorist card all you have?
> 
> Sad.
Click to expand...

All I need.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*

**


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **


I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Do you just come here to call names?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **




"Israel is luring Bedouin to towns with the promise of water, electricity, and land that it practically gives away."  The HORROR! 

This is a silly video.  It romanticizes what is, in fact, a very harsh and difficult life.  And it does this specifically to demonize Jews and Israel.  

The Bedouin in Oman told National Geographic, "Before, life was very difficult.  We didn't have enough food.  We ate only animals we caught in the desert.  We had no water.  We drank only camel's or goat's milk.  Now we have cars, water, rice -- we have everything!"

Where are the videos discussing the HORRORS of other ME countries shamefully luring the poor Bedouin with such things as water, electricity, land and permanent housing, medical care, education, sanitation?


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you just come here to call names?
Click to expand...

I call them what they are. They are no different than other Islamic terrorists. And I asked you a question. How do Bedouins affect your Palestinian terrorists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you just come here to call names?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call them what they are. They are no different than other Islamic terrorists. And I asked you a question. How do Bedouins affect your Palestinian terrorists?
Click to expand...

Stupid question.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you just come here to call names?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call them what they are. They are no different than other Islamic terrorists. And I asked you a question. How do Bedouins affect your Palestinian terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid question.
Click to expand...

Stupid to expect an answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How much UNRWA welfare money are you paid to perpetuate that fraud?

Just curious.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Indeed, the child you choose to abuse is occupying an Israeli jail.


----------



## Hollie

Those angry Islamist terrorists representing the mini-caliphate of Fatah’istan are really angry. 

I suspect the painful reality of the kuffar money train leaving them with far less welfare dollars is becoming an issue they have no idea how to deal with, other than lashing out like petulant children.



Fatah: "Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall" - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah on Pence's visit to the Western Wall: *
*"Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall"







Fatah secretary: The US "is an enemy of the Palestinian people"

Fatah official: Pence's visit to "the Al-Buraq Wall" - the Western Wall - "is an attack against the Palestinian people"

Fatah official: "The activities of rage will continue"

PLO Chief Negotiator Erekat: Pence's speech was "a crusade" and "an attack" that "proved the US administration is part of the problem and not part of the solution"

PA Mufti: "The Al-Buraq Wall is an inseparable part of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and it is an Islamic site"



"The activities of rage will continue"
*
Oh No! *The Activities of Rage™️
*
Translating from Islamist terrorist bluster, that means these misfits will need to round up more children they can use as cheap material in service of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the child you choose to abuse is occupying an Israeli jail.
Click to expand...

The only abuse is by Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those angry Islamist terrorists representing the mini-caliphate of Fatah’istan are really angry.
> 
> I suspect the painful reality of the kuffar money train leaving them with far less welfare dollars is becoming an issue they have no idea how to deal with, other than lashing out like petulant children.
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: "Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah on Pence's visit to the Western Wall:
> "Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Fatah secretary: The US "is an enemy of the Palestinian people"
> 
> Fatah official: Pence's visit to "the Al-Buraq Wall" - the Western Wall - "is an attack against the Palestinian people"
> 
> Fatah official: "The activities of rage will continue"
> 
> PLO Chief Negotiator Erekat: Pence's speech was "a crusade" and "an attack" that "proved the US administration is part of the problem and not part of the solution"
> 
> PA Mufti: "The Al-Buraq Wall is an inseparable part of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and it is an Islamic site"
> *
> *
> 
> "The activities of rage will continue"
> *
> Oh No! *The Activities of Rage™️
> *
> Translating from Islamist terrorist bluster, that means these misfits will need to round up more children they can use as cheap material in service of Islamic terrorism.


Lots of name calling.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Evicting the Bedouin - Israel/Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to watch the video but from what I see they are doing them a favor. How does this affect the Islamic terrorists you call Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you just come here to call names?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call them what they are. They are no different than other Islamic terrorists. And I asked you a question. How do Bedouins affect your Palestinian terrorists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid question.
Click to expand...


Why because you can't answer it? Palestinians are terrorists and you are enabler who has failed on this forum and this thread. Have a nice day, as nice as someone that supports killers can have.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the child you choose to abuse is occupying an Israeli jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only abuse is by Israel.
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. You're quite the apologist for people who collectively create there own self-inflicted disasters and then insist on placing blame elsewhere. That defines the Arab - Moslem'dom in general, though. 

Indeed, that may be part of the reason why Arabs-Moslems are so willing to inflict such suffering on each other.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those angry Islamist terrorists representing the mini-caliphate of Fatah’istan are really angry.
> 
> I suspect the painful reality of the kuffar money train leaving them with far less welfare dollars is becoming an issue they have no idea how to deal with, other than lashing out like petulant children.
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: "Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah on Pence's visit to the Western Wall:
> "Pence defiles the Al-Buraq Wall"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Fatah secretary: The US "is an enemy of the Palestinian people"
> 
> 
> Fatah official: Pence's visit to "the Al-Buraq Wall" - the Western Wall - "is an attack against the Palestinian people"
> 
> 
> Fatah official: "The activities of rage will continue"
> 
> 
> PLO Chief Negotiator Erekat: Pence's speech was "a crusade" and "an attack" that "proved the US administration is part of the problem and not part of the solution"
> 
> 
> PA Mufti: "The Al-Buraq Wall is an inseparable part of the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, and it is an Islamic site"
> *
> *
> 
> "The activities of rage will continue"
> *
> Oh No! *The Activities of Rage™️
> *
> Translating from Islamist terrorist bluster, that means these misfits will need to round up more children they can use as cheap material in service of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of name calling.
Click to expand...


Another failed sidestep on your part. You obviously missed it but your islamic terrorist co-religionists are the ones reeling in panic. 

Islamic dictators stay in power through fear and coercion. When those dictators can make people disappear in the night by way of an inner circle of well paid thieves and murderers, it tends to quiet opposition to the dictator.

Dead people behave in very non-threatening ways. 

Those thieves and murderers, however, will quickly turn on the dictator-in-charge like pit bulls when the welfare checks stop coming. 

Enjoy the show.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh Won't Accept Revlon's Changemaker Award*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> When Revlon recently announced Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot as brand ambassador for its newest "Live Boldly" campaign, it emphasized her message of empowerment. To celebrate the initiative further, the beauty brand recently gave MuslimGirl's Amani Al-Khatahtbeh the Changemaker Award, in recognition of her inspirational advocacy for Muslim women. However, Amani took to social media to share her thoughts with her followers, as she explained why she had decided not to accept and why her values don't align with Gal's ambassadorship."I cannot accept this award from Revlon with Gal Gadot as the ambassador," Amani wrote in an Instagram. "Her vocal support of the Israeli Defense Forces' actions in Palestine goes against MuslimGirl.com’s morals and values. I can't, in good conscience, accept this award from the brand and celebrate Gal's ambassadorship after the IDF imprisoned a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi last month, an activist who is currently still incarcerated."
> 
> *Revlon's Latest Award Is Causing Controversy on Social Media*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, You flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist franchises.
Click to expand...

But why the double standard? Did this asshole get busted for punching this grandmother in the face?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.  She states that "Gal Gadot's support of the IDF's actions goes against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.
> 
> According to the website:
> 
> _MuslimGirl.net was launched from the bedroom of a high school girl that was fed up with the misleading misconceptions surrounding Islam — the way the news coverage and media outlets kept skewing the image of Muslims into a nasty one; the mistrust, racism, and flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed; the muting of young Muslim voices from mainstream society; and the resulting disillusionment that young Muslims suffer about their religion in the tornado of it all._
> 
> _Here at MuslimGirl we like ... to bridge the gap between different religions through the spirit of sisterhood, and to host interfaith discussion to combat growing stereotypes within our society.
> 
> _
> Seems to me that Amani is the one who working against MuslimGirl.com's morals and values.  Where's the sisterhood?  Specifically, where is the sisterhood about "mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of young ... voices?"
> 
> 
> 
> It is a protest against the IDF. Understandable for a Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does protesting the IDF support the stated values of MuslimGirl.com of religious sisterhood and the reduction of mistrust, racism, flat-out hatred that the inaccuracies flamed and the muting of voices?  I see this protest against Gal Gadot as being in direct contradiction to these stated values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see where the support of a criminal organization falls within moral values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, You flail your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorist franchises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But why the double standard? Did this asshole get busted for punching this grandmother in the face?
Click to expand...


Based on this 7 seconds of video, why should he?

The police is not to plant flowers, what should NOT be done is organize riots under elderly women skirts.
Youngsters should respect  and keep their elders safe rather than use them to instigate violence.


----------



## rylah

Arab report: the PA police disengaged 12 road explosives north of Tul-Karem:
شبكة قدس الإخبارية on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017

The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.

The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.

The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.

*
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.





Hollie said:


> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,


Link?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...



The link is right there in the post.


----------



## Lastamender

rylah said:


> Arab report: the PA police disengaged 12 road explosives north of Tul-Karem:
> شبكة قدس الإخبارية on Twitter


They just want to know where they are, they disarmed nothing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to a propaganda site.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
Click to expand...

The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another terrorist card.

BTW, it is not a religious conflict.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
Click to expand...

It sure as Hell is.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.



Just how much can one get detached from reality?
Hamas Covenant : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist *until Islam will obliterate it,* just as it obliterated others before it"


It's not a religious conflict...as there're no weeds in Your garden.


----------



## Lastamender

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much can one get detached from reality?
> Hamas Covenant : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist *until Islam will obliterate it,* just as it obliterated others before it"
> 
> 
> It's not a religious conflict...as there're no weeds in Your garden.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Islam has a hard on for Jews, read the Koran.


----------



## rylah

Lastamender said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much can one get detached from reality?
> Hamas Covenant : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist *until Islam will obliterate it,* just as it obliterated others before it"
> 
> 
> It's not a religious conflict...as there're no weeds in Your garden.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Islam has a hard on for Jews, read the Koran.
Click to expand...


hmm...exactly what I quoted.
Isn't Koran specifically mentioned in both Hamas and PLO covenants?


----------



## Lastamender

rylah said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much can one get detached from reality?
> Hamas Covenant : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist *until Islam will obliterate it,* just as it obliterated others before it"
> 
> 
> It's not a religious conflict...as there're no weeds in Your garden.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Islam has a hard on for Jews, read the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...exactly what I quoted.
Click to expand...

Verse please.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority paid terrorists nearly $350 million in 2017
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records, the Defense Ministry reported to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.
> 
> The average income of a Palestinian is $580 per month, which is what the PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to three to five years in prison.
> 
> The PA pays terrorists who are sentenced to 20 years or more in prison – in other words, those who committed more severe crimes, and likely were involved in killing Israelis – five times that each month for the rest of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million last year, according to its own records,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
Click to expand...


BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).




BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.


----------



## Hollie

Lastamender said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just how much can one get detached from reality?
> Hamas Covenant : "Israel will exist and will continue to exist *until Islam will obliterate it,* just as it obliterated others before it"
> 
> 
> It's not a religious conflict...as there're no weeds in Your garden.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Islam has a hard on for Jews, read the Koran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...exactly what I quoted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Verse please.
Click to expand...



*Article Five:*
Time extent of the Islamic Resistance Movement: By adopting Islam as its way of life, the Movement goes back to the time of the birth of the Islamic message, of the righteous ancestor, for Allah is its target, the Prophet is its example and the *Koran* is its constitution. Its extent in place is anywhere that there are Moslems who embrace Islam as their way of life everywhere in the globe. This being so, it extends to the depth of the earth and reaches out to the heaven.

I added the emphasis to the Islamic Hate and War Manual otherwise known as the Koran.


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
Click to expand...


I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.

But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is right there in the post.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
Click to expand...

It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.

Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
Click to expand...



I believe that at present Christians comprise about 2% of the Palestinian population of the West Bank.  And you failed to address all of rylah's and Hollie's quotes from the Hamas and other Covenants.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
Click to expand...

You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian Christian woman

*Hanan Ashrawi - 2008 Honorary Doctorate*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
Click to expand...

Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
Click to expand...

One rocket blows your propaganda sky high. No one faults Israel that has common sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that at present Christians comprise about 2% of the Palestinian population of the West Bank.  And you failed to address all of rylah's and Hollie's quotes from the Hamas and other Covenants.
Click to expand...

Hamas is Israel's current boogyman. Nobody else mentions them.

The Jerusalem, Bethlehem area was the center of Christian life in Palestine. Many have been expelled to make room for Jewish only settlements. Other Christians have been economically expelled by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
Click to expand...


Actually, Islamist colonialism by way of the destruction of Israel and the area of Pal’istan as an Islamist waqf is referenced specifically as a religious duty in the Hamas charter which takes its rhetoric from your Koran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One rocket blows your propaganda sky high. No one faults Israel that has common sense.
Click to expand...

Why would that be? The rockets are a response to Israel's settler colonialism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that at present Christians comprise about 2% of the Palestinian population of the West Bank.  And you failed to address all of rylah's and Hollie's quotes from the Hamas and other Covenants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is Israel's current boogyman. Nobody else mentions them.
> 
> The Jerusalem, Bethlehem area was the center of Christian life in Palestine. Many have been expelled to make room for Jewish only settlements. Other Christians have been economically expelled by Israel.
Click to expand...

Nobody mentions Hamas except the nations who have declared Hamas as an Islamic terrorist organization. It seems that people mention Hamas when Israel is attacked with rocket fire from the Hamas mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One rocket blows your propaganda sky high. No one faults Israel that has common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would that be? The rockets are a response to Israel's settler colonialism.
Click to expand...


That’s strange, as Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza’istan. It seems you don’t understand the silly slogans you use.


----------



## Hollie

*PA attacks PMW for "wild incitement campaign"  - PMW Bulletins

The PA attacks PMW
 for "wild incitement campaign" 
against PA radio*

*Damaged by ongoing PMW reports, PA Ministry of Information and PA radio launch verbal attacks on PMW*

*PA Ministry of Information: "The repeated claims of the Israeli center [PMW] are part of the deceptive Zionist discourse"*
*The PA has attacked PMW for exposing PA incitement to hate and terror numerous times. Last year, PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi counted PMW among the "toxic organizations," accusing PMW of just waiting "to attack":
*


What a collection of Islamic terrorist whiners!


**


----------



## Hollie

PA attacks PMW for "wild incitement campaign"  - PMW Bulletins

The current attacks on PMW also follow PMW's exposure of the fact that the PA radio station broadcast at least 28 times PA Chairman Abbas' call from 2014 in which he encouraged Palestinians to "prevent" Jews "in any way" from "defiling" Muslim and Christian holy places:

*PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas*: "This is our Sanctuary, our Al-Aqsa and our Church [of the Holy Sepulchre]. They have no right to enter it. They have no right to defile it. We must prevent them. Let us stand before them with chests bared to protect our holy places."
[Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, 28 times, 
Dec. 6, 2017 - Jan. 1, 2018



Pretty much your usual bluster, Mahmoud. I guess this means you need to find more Arab-Moslem children you can push into staged confrontations with Israeli security forces.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mean to a propaganda site.
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
Click to expand...


No, because all Palestinian government(s) are overwhelmingly Muslim.

Q. Are You saying Hamas is a Christian organization?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism.



Well, in fact, it is about religious and national settler colonialism.   The problem is in acknowledging who the settler colonialists are.  As soon as THAT is sorted out, we can move on to a solution.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
Click to expand...


Arabs first colonized the geography then the history and culture of people they've subjugated.

Q. Is there anything about Palestinian culture that is not stolen from Jews or brought from Arabia? 

What is the meaning of "Palestine" in the native language?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie, et al,

This special "Right to Deny Religious Access" (RDRA) as expressed in these examples from Mahmoud Abbas have been hanging around for quite some time.  It is not something new.  When the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) wrote the Special Regime _(Corpus Separatum)_ by which the Jerusalem would operate, only the overly naive expected it to last very long; if it could be implemented at all.



Hollie said:


> PA attacks PMW for "wild incitement campaign"  - PMW Bulletins
> 
> The current attacks on PMW also follow PMW's exposure of the fact that the PA radio station broadcast at least 28 times PA Chairman Abbas' call from 2014 in which he encouraged Palestinians to "prevent" Jews "in any way" from "defiling" Muslim and Christian holy places:
> 
> *PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas*: "This is our Sanctuary, our Al-Aqsa and our Church [of the Holy Sepulchre]. They have no right to enter it. They have no right to defile it. We must prevent them. Let us stand before them with chests bared to protect our holy places."
> [Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, 28 times,
> Dec. 6, 2017 - Jan. 1, 2018
> 
> Pretty much your usual bluster, Mahmoud. I guess this means you need to find more Arab-Moslem children you can push into staged confrontations with Israeli security forces.


*(COMMENT)*

The UNSCOP, made special mention of certain measures and protections of respect, freedoms and access.  There was concern then, just as there is a concern now, that the Arab Majority might exercise the tyranny, just as the Arab Palestinians use the color of law to shutout other followers relative to the belief systems at variance with Islam.  And use this variance as cover and concealment for a latent political agenda.

✪ _Freedoms of Citizens._ ≈ No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants on the grounds of race, religion, language or sex

✪_ Holy Places._
•  Respect of Holy Places and religious buildings or sites.
•  Free access to the Holy Places and religious buildings or sites.
 •  Preservation of Holy Places and religious buildings or sites.​
Mahmoud Abbas is spouting the living example of the actual concern the Western Powers thought might raise its ugly head.  And sure enough, it was not an unfounded concern.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

*PA Arrests Arafat’s Personal Guard*

Palestinian Authority’s Military Service has reportedly arrested former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat’s personal guard, Mohammed Al-Dayya, after he voiced criticism for the PA, Quds News reported.
Palestinian media reported Al-Dayya has launched an open-ended hunger strike to protest his arrest.

The family of Al-Dayya noted in a statement published in Quds News: “We were surprised by the arrest of our son without a justified reason by the PA’s Military Service.”

The family added, “It is known to everyone that Mohammed Al-Dayya was the personal guard of Arafat and he was next to him during all his travels, to promote the Palestinian cause and to protect the rights of the Palestinians.”
“Mohammed has been known as a sincere human and his continuous attempt to seek the truth and that he does not have any agenda to cause instability in the Palestinian street.”
PA Arrests Arafat's Personal Guard


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't get it, nobody calls it what you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli colonialism is mentioned all of the time. Not mentioned in Israeli propaganda, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One rocket blows your propaganda sky high. No one faults Israel that has common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would that be? The rockets are a response to Israel's settler colonialism.
Click to expand...

And how is it justified to kill because you do not get what you want?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only propaganda comes from  Islamists(Palestinians) and you. Hang it up Islam does not want peace and have demonstrated that regularly. To complain Israelis kill terrorists is stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because all Palestinian government(s) are overwhelmingly Muslim.
> 
> Q. Are You saying Hamas is a Christian organization?
Click to expand...


----------



## Lastamender

Did you miss the question in post 1064?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia


Lame answer.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia



"Whether it is a STABBING ATTACK or SUICIDE BOMBING or throwing rocks, everyone needs to do something and unite in order for our message to reach those who want to liberate Palestine" 
-- Ahed Tamimi [Emphases mine]

Ahed Tamimi, Palestinian teen who slapped Israeli soldier in video, charged with assault

Throw the book at this terrorist!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Lame answer.
Click to expand...

Lame question.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> BTW, it is not a religious conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, you make that phony claim while practicing your Islamist taqiyya.  Read the Hamas charter.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
> 
> "Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with  Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from  Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, your Allah god is referenced 92 separate times in the Hamas charter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just going to say - Koran is almost in every paragraph of the Hamas covenant.
> 
> But P F Tinmore said it was not a religious conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not about religion. It is about settler colonialism. Palestinian Christians are just as much opposed to Israel as the Muslims. Palestinian Christians get their homes demolished, get arrested, and get killed just like the rest of the Palestinians.
> 
> Should we call it a Christian, Jewish conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, because all Palestinian government(s) are overwhelmingly Muslim.
> 
> Q. Are You saying Hamas is a Christian organization?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Now You know how the whole - "it's not about religion"...sounds like.
How does it feel when You discredit Your own BS in 2 posts?

Name me one Palestinian govt that is not overwhelmingly Muslim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ria_Longhorn said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Whether it is a STABBING ATTACK or SUICIDE BOMBING or throwing rocks, everyone needs to do something and unite in order for our message to reach those who want to liberate Palestine"
> -- Ahed Tamimi [Emphases mine]
> 
> Ahed Tamimi, Palestinian teen who slapped Israeli soldier in video, charged with assault
> 
> Throw the book at this terrorist!
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Whether it is a STABBING ATTACK or SUICIDE BOMBING or throwing rocks, everyone needs to do something and unite in order for our message to reach those who want to liberate Palestine"
> -- Ahed Tamimi [Emphases mine]
> 
> Ahed Tamimi, Palestinian teen who slapped Israeli soldier in video, charged with assault
> 
> Throw the book at this terrorist!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Five people. That's some struggle you're promoting, from behind your keyboard.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Whether it is a STABBING ATTACK or SUICIDE BOMBING or throwing rocks, everyone needs to do something and unite in order for our message to reach those who want to liberate Palestine"
> -- Ahed Tamimi [Emphases mine]
> 
> Ahed Tamimi, Palestinian teen who slapped Israeli soldier in video, charged with assault
> 
> Throw the book at this terrorist!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Her uncle is the Chief Sharia judge appointed by Arafat...now tell me her father has a real job aside from organizing riots.

*Taissir Tamimi*
Sheikh Taissir Dayut Tamimi (Arabic: شيخ تيسير تميمي‎ is the chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority(PNA).


----------



## Hollie

I''ve learned never to be surprised at the antics that accompany Arabs-Moslems, their related fatwas and the paralyzing fear and loathing that grips Arab-Moslem men and relations toward women. 


Gaza police block women from attending football match

NUSEIRAT, Palestinian Territories: Police blocked dozens of women from attending a football match Sunday in the Gaza Strip, in what activists said they hoped would have been the first such permission under Hamas’s rule.

Authorities in the Palestinian enclave run by the Hamas movement told the women they had orders not to allow them into the stadium at Nuseirat refugee camp south of Gaza City.


Not to worry, we got a fatwa for ya'.

Muslim women shouldn't watch football, says new fatwa


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> Lame answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lame question.
Click to expand...

No, it is not. Why do you think it is justification to kill because Palestinians do not get what they want?


----------



## rylah

Rockets fired from Gaza at 00:00 30/1/18

After 27 days of quiet - alerts in villages around Gaza,  civilians report hearing explosions.
One rocket fell in open area, another one intercepted.
Thank G-d no injuries or damage caused.

Arab report: محب للجميع on Twitter
Israeli report: almog boker on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore

This panel features speakers Ali Abunimah, Dr. Alon Ben-Meir, Dr. Abdel Razza Tikriti, who discuss the occupation, historically and in the present, as well as human rights issues and violations.


----------



## Hollie

It’s a shame that for the misfit Arabs-Moslems masquersading as Pal’istanian Arabs, their heroes are mass murderers and suicide bombers. 

Really, the worst examples of degeneracy that walks the planet.




*Planner of Munich Olympics murders honored by Fatah and Abbas` deputy - PMW Bulletins

Planner of murders of 11 Israelis at Munich Olympics*
*honored by Fatah Movement and  
Abbas' deputy
*





*Official PA daily: Munich murders = "quality operation"*

*Suicide bomber who murdered 1 and wounded over 100 glorified by Fatah*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




So she's out of jail?  Doesn't look as if your heroine has a bad life at all.  Now if she weren't such a brat...

After all her experience with Pallywood, maybe she should think about an acting career.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gee whiz. Shouldn't you be pushing her in front of a bulldozer?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Newsflash:  Israel is not the slightest bit terrified of a little girl.

What the Jewish people are terrified of is all the people like you who think its okay to kill Jewish children for living next door.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Would you have liked it if an obnoxious, bratty 16-year-old Vietnamese girl kept on slapping, kicking and punching you when you were there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you have liked it if an obnoxious, bratty 16-year-old Vietnamese girl kept on slapping, kicking and punching you when you were there?
Click to expand...

I don't know. It didn't happen. All I had was friends.


----------



## P F Tinmore

In this panel, speakers Dr. Virginia Tilley, Khaled Elgindy, and Sam Husseini discuss the intertwined topics of US foreign policy and the continuing problem of representation and media bias when it comes to the Palestinian issue.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> In this panel, speakers Dr. Virginia Tilley, Khaled Elgindy, and Sam Husseini discuss the intertwined topics of US foreign policy and the continuing problem of representation and media bias when it comes to the Palestinian issue.



The problem that the arabs-Moslems who are masquerading as Pal'istanians created for themselves derives from misrepresentation, abuse and fraud of the dedicated welfare system maintained to perpetuate an invented people with an invented national identity.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this panel, speakers Dr. Virginia Tilley, Khaled Elgindy, and Sam Husseini discuss the intertwined topics of US foreign policy and the continuing problem of representation and media bias when it comes to the Palestinian issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem that the arabs-Moslems who are masquerading as Pal'istanians created for themselves derives from misrepresentation, abuse and fraud of the dedicated welfare system maintained to perpetuate an invented people with an invented national identity.
Click to expand...

What a stupid post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In this panel, speakers Dr. Virginia Tilley, Khaled Elgindy, and Sam Husseini discuss the intertwined topics of US foreign policy and the continuing problem of representation and media bias when it comes to the Palestinian issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem that the arabs-Moslems who are masquerading as Pal'istanians created for themselves derives from misrepresentation, abuse and fraud of the dedicated welfare system maintained to perpetuate an invented people with an invented national identity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## Lastamender

This thread should be called "Palestinian Propaganda Today", useless talking to a terrorist supporter, I am done.


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. It seems the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan are a bit 
muhamme’ damned about the US cut in their kuffar welfare fraud money.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie, et al,

I think that our friend "Hollie" has it right.

The UNRWA is a UN functional Humanitarian Agency run by a constituency that routinely condemns US activity in the region.  The Arab Palestinians currently complain that the US decision to cut funding to UNRWA by 83% ⇒ as if the US had some obligation to fund the Arab Palestinians that teach jihadism and violence to each generation.

Since when did it become a duty and obligation for the US to provide that funding.  It is a donation; a monetary gift for a friend and ally.  If they are not an ally why should be provide them with the opportunity to spend our money.


Is this the actions we expect from an Ally?


​


Hollie said:


> Gee whiz. It seems the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan are a bit muhamme’ damned about the US cut in their kuffar welfare fraud money.


*(COMMENT)*

In these dangerous time, we must be careful as to who we count as friends.

The Two-State Solution was never accepted by the Arab Palestinians.  To support a One-State Solution is the same as advocating the demise of the Jewish National Home.  Israel's unemployment rates hit an all-time low of 4.8%,  It may not collapse immediately, but ⇒ the Regional population ≈ 9.8M of _(Israel 6.2M • 2.3M+ in the West Bank • and 1.3M+ in the Gaza Strip)_; and an unemployment rate of 50%_ (combined West Bank & Gaza Strip)_ plus this means that 1.8M additional people will immediately be dropped on the roles of the unemployed in Israel _(which has less than half a million people unemployed)_.

I thought it was striking that people don't see that the One-State Solution would instantly triple unemployment numbers would have a long-term detrimental effect on the economy.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think that our friend "Hollie" has it right.
> 
> The UNRWA is a UN functional Humanitarian Agency run by a constituency that routinely condemns US activity in the region.  The Arab Palestinians currently complain that the US decision to cut funding to UNRWA by 83% ⇒ as if the US had some obligation to fund the Arab Palestinians that teach jihadism and violence to each generation.
> 
> Since when did it become a duty and obligation for the US to provide that funding.  It is a donation; a monetary gift for a friend and ally.  If they are not an ally why should be provide them with the opportunity to spend our money.
> 
> 
> Is this the actions we expect from an Ally?
> View attachment 174098​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It seems the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan are a bit muhamme’ damned about the US cut in their kuffar welfare fraud money.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In these dangerous time, we must be careful as to who we count as friends.
> 
> The Two-State Solution was never accepted by the Arab Palestinians.  To support a One-State Solution is the same as advocating the demise of the Jewish National Home.  Israel's unemployment rates hit an all-time low of 4.8%,  It may not collapse immediately, but ⇒ the Regional population ≈ 9.8M of _(Israel 6.2M • 2.3M+ in the West Bank • and 1.3M+ in the Gaza Strip)_; and an unemployment rate of 50%_ (combined West Bank & Gaza Strip)_ plus this means that 1.8M additional people will immediately be dropped on the roles of the unemployed in Israel _(which has less than half a million people unemployed)_.
> 
> I thought it was striking that people don't see that the One-State Solution would instantly triple unemployment numbers would have a long-term detrimental effect on the economy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Since when did it become a duty and obligation for the US to provide that funding.


It is largely the fault of the US that there are refugees.


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think that our friend "Hollie" has it right.
> 
> The UNRWA is a UN functional Humanitarian Agency run by a constituency that routinely condemns US activity in the region.  The Arab Palestinians currently complain that the US decision to cut funding to UNRWA by 83% ⇒ as if the US had some obligation to fund the Arab Palestinians that teach jihadism and violence to each generation.
> 
> Since when did it become a duty and obligation for the US to provide that funding.  It is a donation; a monetary gift for a friend and ally.  If they are not an ally why should be provide them with the opportunity to spend our money.
> 
> 
> Is this the actions we expect from an Ally?
> View attachment 174098​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It seems the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan are a bit muhamme’ damned about the US cut in their kuffar welfare fraud money.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In these dangerous time, we must be careful as to who we count as friends.
> 
> The Two-State Solution was never accepted by the Arab Palestinians.  To support a One-State Solution is the same as advocating the demise of the Jewish National Home.  Israel's unemployment rates hit an all-time low of 4.8%,  It may not collapse immediately, but ⇒ the Regional population ≈ 9.8M of _(Israel 6.2M • 2.3M+ in the West Bank • and 1.3M+ in the Gaza Strip)_; and an unemployment rate of 50%_ (combined West Bank & Gaza Strip)_ plus this means that 1.8M additional people will immediately be dropped on the roles of the unemployed in Israel _(which has less than half a million people unemployed)_.
> 
> I thought it was striking that people don't see that the One-State Solution would instantly triple unemployment numbers would have a long-term detrimental effect on the economy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The only DANGER TO THE WORLD IS AMERICA AND ISRAEL.....stand aside...there are others with a NON-MYOPIC VIEW.........time for the US and Israel to Fcuk out of World Polotik,because it is making the World Sick,Time for the Doctors to Cut Out the Cancer


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sweet photo from Los Angeles coalition for peace and justice who came out tonight to celebrate Ahed Tamimi’s birthday & demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons Jewish Voice for Peace - Los Angeles and CODEPINK: Women For Peace Free Ahed Tamimi


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ...demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons



There are over one million children held in prisons worldwide.  Are you calling for the release of all of them?  Or just the ones in Israeli prison?  Why or why not?


----------



## theliq

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are over one million children held in prisons worldwide.  Are you calling for the release of all of them?  Or just the ones in Israeli prison?  Why or why not?
Click to expand...

Zionstan would be a Start,Shusha,lets see if you can be an example of GOOD,I reckon you have a Snowballs chance in Hell....just sayin...steven


----------



## Shusha

theliq said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are over one million children held in prisons worldwide.  Are you calling for the release of all of them?  Or just the ones in Israeli prison?  Why or why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionstan would be a Start,Shusha,lets see if you can be an example of GOOD,I reckon you have a Snowballs chance in Hell....just sayin...steven
Click to expand...


You think it is a good ideal to reach for -- that no child should be in prison?  I agree.  No child should be in prison because no child should  be moved to perform immoral acts.  Let alone be encouraged to perform immoral acts.  With the help of G-d, let it be so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet photo from Los Angeles coalition for peace and justice who came out tonight to celebrate Ahed Tamimi’s birthday & demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons Jewish Voice for Peace - Los Angeles and CODEPINK: Women For Peace Free Ahed Tamimi



Sweet justice. 



Israeli military court refuses to release Ahed Tamimi

*Israeli military court refuses to release Ahed Tamimi*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  theliq, Hollie, et al,

I'm not exactly sure what data, survey or report which you refer.  But lets say that it is true, a hypothetical, how important is it.



 ​
As you can readily see, in general, the "#1 Real Concern" is NOT Wars and Conflicts (5%), and certainly not the matter of Refugees (1% - _Palestinians or otherwise_); but that of:  Corruption (21%).  So, even if the World thought that the United States was the "Greatest Threat to Peace," that threat is really not the most likely problem to effect the change.



theliq said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> I think that our friend "Hollie" has it right.
> 
> The UNRWA is a UN functional Humanitarian Agency run by a constituency that routinely condemns US activity in the region.  The Arab Palestinians currently complain that the US decision to cut funding to UNRWA by 83% ⇒ as if the US had some obligation to fund the Arab Palestinians that teach jihadism and violence to each generation.
> 
> Since when did it become a duty and obligation for the US to provide that funding.  It is a donation; a monetary gift for a friend and ally.  If they are not an ally why should be provide them with the opportunity to spend our money.
> 
> 
> Is this the actions we expect from an Ally?
> View attachment 174098​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It seems the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan are a bit muhamme’ damned about the US cut in their kuffar welfare fraud money.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In these dangerous time, we must be careful as to who we count as friends.
> 
> The Two-State Solution was never accepted by the Arab Palestinians.  To support a One-State Solution is the same as advocating the demise of the Jewish National Home.  Israel's unemployment rates hit an all-time low of 4.8%,  It may not collapse immediately, but ⇒ the Regional population ≈ 9.8M of _(Israel 6.2M • 2.3M+ in the West Bank • and 1.3M+ in the Gaza Strip)_; and an unemployment rate of 50%_ (combined West Bank & Gaza Strip)_ plus this means that 1.8M additional people will immediately be dropped on the roles of the unemployed in Israel _(which has less than half a million people unemployed)_.
> 
> I thought it was striking that people don't see that the One-State Solution would instantly triple unemployment numbers would have a long-term detrimental effect on the economy.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only DANGER TO THE WORLD IS AMERICA AND ISRAEL.....stand aside...there are others with a NON-MYOPIC VIEW.........time for the US and Israel to Fcuk out of World Polotik,because it is making the World Sick,Time for the Doctors to Cut Out the Cancer
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In the October - December 2016 Win/Gallop Poll, you will still find that more than half the Global Preference for a Defense partner is still the United States _(majority choice for global power)_.



 ​
Many in the World find America distasteful.  But when the fur flies, they want us right thee beside them.  And at the end of the day, when allied life is on the line, American Air, Sea and Land Forces will fight toe-to-toe up against any aggressor _(as has been proven in the past)_. 

Speaking of Allies, Israel is an American Ally.  Israel does not pose any threat of consequence either regionally or globally.  Coupling Israel to the Shadow of America _(The Great Satan)_ is just propaganda technique.  And it is widely known that all forms of propaganda which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace. And that is the intent of the pro-Palestinian effort.  It is a form of opposition the the spirit and intent of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

6:07 AM : Arab report - a Gazan was arrested this morning by the army, as he was attempting to cross the border into Israel.  

Pal.Info.Center on Twitter
عاجل من فلسطين on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

Hamas in coordination with the Tamimi family

Tamimi is a well known family for its long cooperation with the PLO/PA, members of the family being directly appointed by Arafat, serving as politicians and Sharia Court judges.

Riots in Nabi-Salih, an exclusively Tamimi village, are usually organized each Friday.
However today (Thursday) they've signaled a new turn - by cooperating in real time with Hamas:

6:04 AM - Gaza - Hamas opens a confrontation on border of Israel.
6:21  AM-  Nabi Salih - Tamimi family starts a riot outside of the village, confrontation with security forces.

غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter
الضفة الإخبارية on Twitter


----------



## Hollie

Hamas co-founder dies after accidentally shooting himself in face, militant group says


----------



## theliq

Shusha said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...demand her release and that of the 360 children being held in Israeli prisons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are over one million children held in prisons worldwide.  Are you calling for the release of all of them?  Or just the ones in Israeli prison?  Why or why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zionstan would be a Start,Shusha,lets see if you can be an example of GOOD,I reckon you have a Snowballs chance in Hell....just sayin...steven
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think it is a good ideal to reach for -- that no child should be in prison?  I agree.  No child should be in prison because no child should  be moved to perform immoral acts.  Let alone be encouraged to perform immoral acts.  With the help of G-d, let it be so.
Click to expand...

Trouble is some peoples idea of MORALITY IS IMMORAL


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why don't the Palestinians build their economy?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another reason to dismantle UNRWA.

Here's an idea - Gaza govt. officials can reduce the amount of caviar they eat on those 50$ mil. private jets.





*Hamas second-richest terror group in world, Forbes says*
*Gaza Strip's Islamist rulers have $1 billion stashed away; only the Islamic State with $2 billion has a fatter wallet*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>


The Gazans were very stupid then.  They started throwing rockets at Israel, which caused the blockade.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gazans were very stupid then.  They started throwing rockets at Israel, which caused the blockade.
Click to expand...

Not true. Part of the so called disengagement was installing a system of closure. The rockets are merely a response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gazans were very stupid then.  They started throwing rockets at Israel, which caused the blockade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Part of the so called disengagement was installing a system of closure. The rockets are merely a response.
Click to expand...


What nonsense.


----------



## Hollie

It’s comical to see the Islamic terrorist welfare beggars work themselves into a frenzy. As they come begging to the kuffar for a handout, they behave like underpaid prostitutes. 



Fatah and PA TV hosts question Trump's mental capabilities - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Fatah and PA TV hosts question Trump's mental capabilities
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 2, 2018 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">



Share |
*Fatah makes fun of Trump*

*PA TV hosts question Trump's mental capabilities*






*Relying on the book Fire and Fury, PA TV hosts question if "a man of this mentality is capable of determining the fate of the world?"*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who would not slap a soldier after years of trauma and direct assaults? — an interview with Lynn Gottlieb*

*What is your impression of the reaction to Ahed Tamimi’s slapping of an Israeli soldier? 
*
Gottlieb:
The response to Ahed Tamimi’s slap by many Jewish people reveals the sexist and racist attitudes, beliefs and behaviors that impact a large portion of the Jewish community. The vile accusations against this child are stunning. Their purpose is to flip the script on Palestinian suffering and blame the victim instead of assuming responsibility.

I wonder: who would not slap a soldier after years of trauma as a result of recurring night invasions, administrative detentions with no possibility for justice or a fair hearing, daily destruction of village houses, and direct assaults, one of which targets your cousin in the head?

Israeli soldiers invade and scream in a strange language, push and shove with an assault rifle, destroy personal objects in homes, and kidnap and hurt friends and loved ones. And some people complain about Ahed’s slap?!

Who would not slap a soldier after years of trauma and direct assaults? — an interview with Lynn Gottlieb


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  et al,

Less than a decade ago, the Arab Palestinians made it clear → in very straightforward ways → that there was a growing hatred for America.  Yet, if I was actually defending a dissertation in the subject, I would undoubtedly be called upon to explain the current flow of US Aid ($) to the Palestinians.  In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.  In January 2018 (yes 2018), The (by) Breitbart Jerusalem reports:



			
				The Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> The Palestinians should* cut all ties with the United States *because
> of “racist” and “ignorant” comments US Ambassador David Friedman made
> to The Jerusalem Post last week, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said...


​
Less than a couple weeks later, 



			
				On January 14 said:
			
		

> ⇒ that included highly objectionable references to the United States and Israel, signaling a temporary *halt in direct Palestinian involvement with Washington* toward a peace deal. The particulars of his speech will be picked apart by analysts in the days ahead, and while he may or may not be able to walk some of them back in media interviews, the larger questions about the PA's outlook on diplomacy will persist.





			
				On January 14 said:
			
		

> Source:  Policy Watch #2918


​Then, as you might expect from a people ⇒ afflicted with some sort of _Disorder, Dissociative Identity Disorder_ (DID) ⇒ 



			
				Palestinians outraged by Trump’s ‘blackmail’ to cut funding said:
			
		

> Palestinian officials voiced outrage on Wednesday over President Donald Trump's threat to cut funding to the Palestinian Authority, calling his tweets "blackmail" in the aftermath of the U.S. administration's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's office rebuffed the U.S. leader's remarks, saying that "Jerusalem is not for sale, neither for gold nor silver."





			
				UN Cuts Aid to Palestine said:
			
		

> GAZA, *June 20 (UPI)* --  U.S. and European leaders are trying to blackmail Palestinians by funding President Mahmoud Abbas' newly reorganized government, Hamas leaders charged.
> 
> Hamas leaders reacted Tuesday to the decision by the United States and the European Union to lift a financial aid embargo against the Palestinian Authority, the Jerusalem Post reported Wednesday.


​In terms of the specific Abbas threat to cut all ties with the US, we should posture ourselves now and gradually move those assets we want to keep out of the West Bank. In order for the threat to be credible, we must actually carry it out.  And base on our return-for-the-aid investment, we should be very quick about making cuts to nations of little or no consequence to the US.
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> And base on our return-for-the-aid investment,


That implies economic development. Israel will not let that happen in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.


The US has chosen to make itself the enemy of the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Less than a decade ago, the Arab Palestinians made it clear → in very straightforward ways → that there was a growing hatred for America.


Palestinians love Americans. We are welcomed there with open arms. This does not hold true for the assholes in our government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi*

*Palestinian Children in Israeli Military Detention - Child Imprisonment*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Daoud Nasser-Tent of Nations Testimony-Harbor United Methodist Church-10/22/17*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lina Sleibi Al Tareyk Ito Aramaic Christmas Bethlehem 2017*

**


----------



## Taz

Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, it is my opinion that you have a shaded impression of US Foreign Policy.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And base on our return-for-the-aid investment,
> 
> 
> 
> That implies economic development. Israel will not let that happen in Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

✪  Well, when a student goes to school and studies, generally, good grades are the return-on-the-investment.  You can put it into economic terms, if you want to convert the cost of time into money, and the improvement in earning as outcome of good grades; or a higher paying job.  Similarly, the various Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security returns-on-investment are a factor of how appreciative the Arab Palestinians are in terms of the aid and assistance the US gives them.  If the Arab Palestinians are not appreciative of the aid and assistance the US gives them, then of course the US will not see the Arab Palestinians render the US aid and assistance in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts that reinforce the US Foreign Policy interests and the amplification of US National Security Interests.

✪  If the Arab Palestinians see no value in the aid and assistance (A&A) the US gives them; then the return on the aid and assistance than the Arab Palestinians return on the investment (ROI) will not be judged as valuable; and thus and nothing positive to the in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts will be put forth with US Foreign Policy interests and US National Security Interests being considered.​
∴  That, lack of a positive effort on the part of the Arab Palestinians should then cancel-out any positive effort on the part of the US providing aid and assistance the Arab Palestinians.

*(FORMULA for COST EFFECT AID and ASSISTANCE)*
ψ  What the US Receives in return must be equal to or greater than the value of US AID and ASSISTANCE.


US ROI ≥ US A&A Payout
_This only makes sense._​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> The US has chosen to make itself the enemy of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If the Arab Palestinians were a credible threat and actually considered the Government of the the United States an Enemy of the Palestinian State,  they would already be under US Occupation; they would not have to worry about the Israelis.  The US Mediterranean Fleet would be anchored just outside of Palestinian guns range. 

If the Arab Palestinians consider the US to be an enemy, then the US should not be rendering assistance to any such an opponent.  That would be a from of "Treason."

*18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason*
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, *giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere*, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

_(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)_​
This is just another example of where the Arab Palestinians have lost touch with reality.  They can say ridiculous crap like that, and get away with that; but they would never put that in official Diplomatic Note _(formal written communication between the countries)_.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Lastamender




----------



## fanger

Careful where you put US Ships


----------



## P F Tinmore

Taz said:


> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?




The American International School in Gaza


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, it is my opinion that you have a shaded impression of US Foreign Policy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And base on our return-for-the-aid investment,
> 
> 
> 
> That implies economic development. Israel will not let that happen in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Well, when a student goes to school and studies, generally, good grades are the return-on-the-investment.  You can put it into economic terms, if you want to convert the cost of time into money, and the improvement in earning as outcome of good grades; or a higher paying job.  Similarly, the various Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security returns-on-investment are a factor of how appreciative the Arab Palestinians are in terms of the aid and assistance the US gives them.  If the Arab Palestinians are not appreciative of the aid and assistance the US gives them, then of course the US will not see the Arab Palestinians render the US aid and assistance in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts that reinforce the US Foreign Policy interests and the amplification of US National Security Interests.
> 
> ✪  If the Arab Palestinians see no value in the aid and assistance (A&A) the US gives them; then the return on the aid and assistance than the Arab Palestinians return on the investment (ROI) will not be judged as valuable; and thus and nothing positive to the in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts will be put forth with US Foreign Policy interests and US National Security Interests being considered.​
> ∴  That, lack of a positive effort on the part of the Arab Palestinians should then cancel-out any positive effort on the part of the US providing aid and assistance the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> *(FORMULA for COST EFFECT AID and ASSISTANCE)*
> ψ  What the US Receives in return must be equal to or greater than the value of US AID and ASSISTANCE.
> 
> 
> US ROI ≥ US A&A Payout
> _This only makes sense._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US has chosen to make itself the enemy of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians were a credible threat and actually considered the Government of the the United States an Enemy of the Palestinian State,  they would already be under US Occupation; they would not have to worry about the Israelis.  The US Mediterranean Fleet would be anchored just outside of Palestinian guns range.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians consider the US to be an enemy, then the US should not be rendering assistance to any such an opponent.  That would be a from of "Treason."
> 
> *18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason*
> Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, *giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere*, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
> 
> _(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)_​
> This is just another example of where the Arab Palestinians have lost touch with reality.  They can say ridiculous crap like that, and get away with that; but they would never put that in official Diplomatic Note _(formal written communication between the countries)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I was going to respond to your post but you are so full of shit I don't know where to start.


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
Click to expand...

I said something nice, not bombed out.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

You can't have your cake and eat it (too).  There comes a time when the Arab Palestinians must stand and face the consequences.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, it is my opinion that you have a shaded impression of US Foreign Policy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And base on our return-for-the-aid investment,
> 
> 
> 
> That implies economic development. Israel will not let that happen in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Well, when a student goes to school and studies, generally, good grades are the return-on-the-investment.  You can put it into economic terms, if you want to convert the cost of time into money, and the improvement in earning as outcome of good grades; or a higher paying job.  Similarly, the various Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security returns-on-investment are a factor of how appreciative the Arab Palestinians are in terms of the aid and assistance the US gives them.  If the Arab Palestinians are not appreciative of the aid and assistance the US gives them, then of course the US will not see the Arab Palestinians render the US aid and assistance in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts that reinforce the US Foreign Policy interests and the amplification of US National Security Interests.
> 
> ✪  If the Arab Palestinians see no value in the aid and assistance (A&A) the US gives them; then the return on the aid and assistance than the Arab Palestinians return on the investment (ROI) will not be judged as valuable; and thus and nothing positive to the in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts will be put forth with US Foreign Policy interests and US National Security Interests being considered.​
> ∴  That, lack of a positive effort on the part of the Arab Palestinians should then cancel-out any positive effort on the part of the US providing aid and assistance the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> *(FORMULA for COST EFFECT AID and ASSISTANCE)*
> ψ  What the US Receives in return must be equal to or greater than the value of US AID and ASSISTANCE.
> 
> 
> US ROI ≥ US A&A Payout
> _This only makes sense._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US has chosen to make itself the enemy of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians were a credible threat and actually considered the Government of the the United States an Enemy of the Palestinian State,  they would already be under US Occupation; they would not have to worry about the Israelis.  The US Mediterranean Fleet would be anchored just outside of Palestinian guns range.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians consider the US to be an enemy, then the US should not be rendering assistance to any such an opponent.  That would be a from of "Treason."
> 
> *18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason*
> Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, *giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere*, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
> 
> _(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)_​
> This is just another example of where the Arab Palestinians have lost touch with reality.  They can say ridiculous crap like that, and get away with that; but they would never put that in official Diplomatic Note _(formal written communication between the countries)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was going to respond to your post but you are so full of shit I don't know where to start.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I know that many pro-Arab Palestinians believe that the US has some legal or moral obligation to assist in the maintenance of the Arab Palestinian "until such time as they are able to stand alone;" Article 22(4).  But no such obligation exists when a party _(Arab Palestinians)_ is intentionally unwilling = or ⇒ exhibits behavior suggesting that they are unwilling to perform enter into some form of a good faith dialogue between the two people _(Arab Palestinian Israeli)_ intended to reach a beneficial outcome.

Three attempts were made (1923) to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  Which, as it happens, was the same goal then 95 yeas ago, as it is today:  "to establish a self-government in Palestine."   Again, Article 22 concepts.  And that attitude persisted through February 1948 when the UN Palestine Commission invited the Arab Higher Committee to assist in the implementation of the Steps Preparatory to Independence.  And Again, the Arab Palestinians rejected an opportunity then, that would have given them a much better position then they have at present.

Between 1949 _(all Armistice Agreements in place)_ and 1967, the Arab Palestinians consistently chose an alternative solutions that had the consequence of placing them in an ever shrinking position.  

There are may points we could discuss here, but the fact of the matter is that the Arab Palestinian, with the exception of the Oslo Accords, consistently chose to opt for conflict. 

It is clear that the "Palestinian Authority would agree to an extension of negotiations if Israel agreed to: 

Announce the basis on which future talks will be held; 

Draw the outline of the borders of a Palestinian state within the next three months; 

Halt settlement construction; 

Withdraw Israeli troops from the West Bank’s Area C to the lines held before the Second Intifada; 

Release the fourth wave of prisoners that it has until now refused to set free; 

End what he called “disruptions” in Jerusalem, and open Palestinian institutions in the city."
No significant progress towards peace has been made snce the turn of the century.  In fact, all that has come out of Rahmallah has been either anti-American or anti-Israel sentiments.  Why should the people of a failed state that supports terrorist organizations, initiatives and goals.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
Click to expand...

Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Three attempts were made (1923) to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.


And every time it was required to buy into Israel's settler colonial project. Even the fake peace talks of today are in that framework.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Free Ahed Tamimi Protest 1-30-2018 NYC*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You can't have your cake and eat it (too).  There comes a time when the Arab Palestinians must stand and face the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, it is my opinion that you have a shaded impression of US Foreign Policy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And base on our return-for-the-aid investment,
> 
> 
> 
> That implies economic development. Israel will not let that happen in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Well, when a student goes to school and studies, generally, good grades are the return-on-the-investment.  You can put it into economic terms, if you want to convert the cost of time into money, and the improvement in earning as outcome of good grades; or a higher paying job.  Similarly, the various Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security returns-on-investment are a factor of how appreciative the Arab Palestinians are in terms of the aid and assistance the US gives them.  If the Arab Palestinians are not appreciative of the aid and assistance the US gives them, then of course the US will not see the Arab Palestinians render the US aid and assistance in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts that reinforce the US Foreign Policy interests and the amplification of US National Security Interests.
> 
> ✪  If the Arab Palestinians see no value in the aid and assistance (A&A) the US gives them; then the return on the aid and assistance than the Arab Palestinians return on the investment (ROI) will not be judged as valuable; and thus and nothing positive to the in terms of Diplomatic, Intelligence and Security efforts will be put forth with US Foreign Policy interests and US National Security Interests being considered.​
> ∴  That, lack of a positive effort on the part of the Arab Palestinians should then cancel-out any positive effort on the part of the US providing aid and assistance the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> *(FORMULA for COST EFFECT AID and ASSISTANCE)*
> ψ  What the US Receives in return must be equal to or greater than the value of US AID and ASSISTANCE.
> 
> 
> US ROI ≥ US A&A Payout
> _This only makes sense._​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2013, a mere 5 years ago, more than three-quarters of the Arab Palestinian Population considered America as ⇒ *more of an "enemy"* than a partner in the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US has chosen to make itself the enemy of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians were a credible threat and actually considered the Government of the the United States an Enemy of the Palestinian State,  they would already be under US Occupation; they would not have to worry about the Israelis.  The US Mediterranean Fleet would be anchored just outside of Palestinian guns range.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians consider the US to be an enemy, then the US should not be rendering assistance to any such an opponent.  That would be a from of "Treason."
> 
> *18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason*
> Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, *giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere*, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
> 
> _(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)_​
> This is just another example of where the Arab Palestinians have lost touch with reality.  They can say ridiculous crap like that, and get away with that; but they would never put that in official Diplomatic Note _(formal written communication between the countries)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was going to respond to your post but you are so full of shit I don't know where to start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I know that many pro-Arab Palestinians believe that the US has some legal or moral obligation to assist in the maintenance of the Arab Palestinian "until such time as they are able to stand alone;" Article 22(4).  But no such obligation exists when a party _(Arab Palestinians)_ is intentionally unwilling = or ⇒ exhibits behavior suggesting that they are unwilling to perform enter into some form of a good faith dialogue between the two people _(Arab Palestinian Israeli)_ intended to reach a beneficial outcome.
> 
> Three attempts were made (1923) to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  Which, as it happens, was the same goal then 95 yeas ago, as it is today:  "to establish a self-government in Palestine."   Again, Article 22 concepts.  And that attitude persisted through February 1948 when the UN Palestine Commission invited the Arab Higher Committee to assist in the implementation of the Steps Preparatory to Independence.  And Again, the Arab Palestinians rejected an opportunity then, that would have given them a much better position then they have at present.
> 
> Between 1949 _(all Armistice Agreements in place)_ and 1967, the Arab Palestinians consistently chose an alternative solutions that had the consequence of placing them in an ever shrinking position.
> 
> There are may points we could discuss here, but the fact of the matter is that the Arab Palestinian, with the exception of the Oslo Accords, consistently chose to opt for conflict.
> 
> It is clear that the "Palestinian Authority would agree to an extension of negotiations if Israel agreed to:
> 
> Announce the basis on which future talks will be held;
> 
> Draw the outline of the borders of a Palestinian state within the next three months;
> 
> Halt settlement construction;
> 
> Withdraw Israeli troops from the West Bank’s Area C to the lines held before the Second Intifada;
> 
> Release the fourth wave of prisoners that it has until now refused to set free;
> 
> End what he called “disruptions” in Jerusalem, and open Palestinian institutions in the city."
> No significant progress towards peace has been made snce the turn of the century.  In fact, all that has come out of Rahmallah has been either anti-American or anti-Israel sentiments.  Why should the people of a failed state that supports terrorist organizations, initiatives and goals.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You sound like a government employee. You people think funny like that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi - Racism - Genocide - CHILD ABUSE*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Worldwide actions commemorate Ahed Tamimi’s 17th birthday, demand freedom: Reports and photos*

Ahed, 17, was seized by occupation forces in a pre-dawn raid on her family’s home in the Palestinian village of Nabi Saleh, near Ramallah, where she and her family are leaders in the anti-colonial indigenous land defense and resistance movement. The village’s land and even its spring have been confiscated by the illegal colonial settlement of Halamish and the village is regularly subject to invasions, raids and arrests. Ahed’s mother, Nariman, a strong activist in her own right, was arrested by occupation forces later the same day.

Worldwide actions commemorate Ahed Tamimi’s 17th birthday, demand freedom: Reports and photos


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jewish Teens Protested in Support of Palestinian Activist Ahed Tamimi*
*"We want to send a message to Ahed that we are with her."*





Brittney McNamaraFeb 1, 2018 11:05AM EST

Jewish Teens Protested to Support Palestinian Activist Ahed Tamimi on Her 17th Birthday


----------



## P F Tinmore

Manal Tamimi shares the experience of her most recent arrest by the Israeli army. Manal was arrested during a protest in front of the Ofer military compound, where the trial of her kinswomen Nariman and her 16 year old daughter Ahed Tamimi was taking place. Manal describes the brutality of the soldiers and deliberate humiliation, as well as the routine endured by Palestinian female political prisoners in jail and between prison and the court.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
Click to expand...

So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ha Ha Ha, Fox News and the Lawfare Project are both Israeli propaganda organizations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
Click to expand...

I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
Click to expand...

I just think that a man should know when he's beat, and move on. The Pals could accept reality, stop their pointless fighting and build something for themselves that is positive and forward looking.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a dump. Do they have anything nice in Arab Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
Click to expand...


Except for a vibrant and thriving country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The American International School in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just think that a man should know when he's beat, and move on. The Pals could accept reality, stop their pointless fighting and build something for themselves that is positive and forward looking.
Click to expand...

Until the Palestinians surrender, Israel has won nothing.

I don't see that happening soon.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just think that a man should know when he's beat, and move on. The Pals could accept reality, stop their pointless fighting and build something for themselves that is positive and forward looking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until the Palestinians surrender, Israel has won nothing.
> 
> I don't see that happening soon.
Click to expand...


The Arabs-Moslems surrendered back in the early 1920’s. They surrendered to the retrogression of Islamist ideology. 

You’re failed keyboard gee-had simply reinforces the failed policies of Arab-Islamist intransigence.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just think that a man should know when he's beat, and move on. The Pals could accept reality, stop their pointless fighting and build something for themselves that is positive and forward looking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until the Palestinians surrender, Israel has won nothing.
> 
> I don't see that happening soon.
Click to expand...



See Post  #1163.


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said something nice, not bombed out.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything in Palestine has been bombed, bulldozed, or stolen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So do you think that it might be about time for them to admit that they're beaten?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you are claiming victory prematurely. Israel has not won anything yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just think that a man should know when he's beat, and move on. The Pals could accept reality, stop their pointless fighting and build something for themselves that is positive and forward looking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until the Palestinians surrender, Israel has won nothing.
> 
> I don't see that happening soon.
Click to expand...

Don't surrender, make peace. Live side by side. North Korea didn't surrender, yet their whole country isn't a pile of rubble now, is it?

PS Israel has sooooo won, and you know it. And I have no dog in this fight, just a casual observer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Lost in representation*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’istanians”.

Lost in incompetence and failure.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

*Gaza Tunnel Collapses*





February 4, 2018- the Gazans are reporting that a tunnel between the Sinai in Egypt and Gaza has collapsed, on Sunday morning. The reports say there are people trapped inside.

Gaza Tunnel Collapses


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Manal Tamimi shares the experience of her most recent arrest by the Israeli army. Manal was arrested during a protest in front of the Ofer military compound, where the trial of her kinswomen Nariman and her 16 year old daughter Ahed Tamimi was taking place. Manal describes the brutality of the soldiers and deliberate humiliation, as well as the routine endured by Palestinian female political prisoners in jail and between prison and the court.



Tamimi family receives a prize from PLO:

Basem Tamimi with Walid Asaef and Mahmoud Aleloul (Abbas' vice)  and Isa Kreka who recently gave the same prize to the planners of Park Hotel terror act in Netanyah:










What You see above is a meeting in the Tamimi house, between  Aleloul (Abbas' vice) and Jamal Muhssein aka *Abu-Jihad a member of PLO central committee who is in charge of recruitment.



*


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> Hamas in coordination with the Tamimi family
> 
> Tamimi is a well known family for its long cooperation with the PLO/PA, members of the family being directly appointed by Arafat, serving as politicians and Sharia Court judges.
> 
> Riots in Nabi-Salih, an exclusively Tamimi village, are usually organized each Friday.
> However today (Thursday) they've signaled a new turn - by cooperating in real time with Hamas:
> 
> 6:04 AM - Gaza - Hamas opens a confrontation on border of Israel.
> 6:21  AM-  Nabi Salih - Tamimi family starts a riot outside of the village, confrontation with security forces.
> 
> غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter
> الضفة الإخبارية on Twitter



Tamimi family and Hamas coordination:

6:31 - Confrontations start on Gaza border.
Pal.Info.Center on Twitter

7:08  -Nabi Salih (Tamimi village) starts a confrontation with police.
وكالة شهاب on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Free Ahed Rally Wellington New Zealand*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dozens marked Ahed Tamimi's birthday outside the prison where she is held*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine Tensions: New Yorkers rally in support of detained teen*

**


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Taz*
> PS Israel has sooooo won, and you know it. And I have no dog in this fight, just a casual observer



Israel won't be militarily defeated by anyone...

The country will suffer the proverbial "death of a thousand cuts".

The nature and magnitude of the "cuts" vary and will continue to vary wildly:

From Manhattan skyscrappers being reduced to rubble by jumbo jets to Palestinian young ladies being arrested in the middle of the night.

Surprisingly enough, some of the "cuts" are self-inflicted, such as Israel's inability to control her own ethnocratic expansionism over the West Bank.

Each and every one of the "cuts" will continue to slowly chip away a small portion of the country's international standing and legitimacy until its final demise.

Ahed's arrest and the international outcry it is generating are just another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.


----------



## Indeependent

José said:


> Originally posted by *Taz*
> PS Israel has sooooo won, and you know it. And I have no dog in this fight, just a casual observer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't be militarily defeated by anyone...
> 
> The country will suffer the proverbial "death of a thousand cuts".
> 
> The nature and magnitude of the "cuts" vary and will continue to vary wildly:
> 
> From Manhattan skyscrappers being reduced to rubble by jumbo jets to Palestinian young ladies being arrested in the middle of the night.
> 
> Surprisingly enough, some of the "cuts" are self-inflicted, such as Israel's inability to control her own ethnocratic expansionism over the West Bank.
> 
> Each and every one of the "cuts" will continue to slowly chip away a small portion of the country's international standing and legitimacy until its final demise.
> 
> Ahed's arrest and the international outcry it is generating are just another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.
Click to expand...

I read this post in The New York Times in 1980.


----------



## P F Tinmore

José said:


> Originally posted by *Taz*
> PS Israel has sooooo won, and you know it. And I have no dog in this fight, just a casual observer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't be militarily defeated by anyone...
> 
> The country will suffer the proverbial "death of a thousand cuts".
> 
> The nature and magnitude of the "cuts" vary and will continue to vary wildly:
> 
> From Manhattan skyscrappers being reduced to rubble by jumbo jets to Palestinian young ladies being arrested in the middle of the night.
> 
> Surprisingly enough, some of the "cuts" are self-inflicted, such as Israel's inability to control her own ethnocratic expansionism over the West Bank.
> 
> Each and every one of the "cuts" will continue to slowly chip away a small portion of the country's international standing and legitimacy until its final demise.
> 
> Ahed's arrest and the international outcry it is generating are just another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.
Click to expand...




José said:


> Ahed's arrest and the international outcry it is generating are just another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.


Israel stepped in it with Ahed Tamimi. People all over the world are saying free Ahad. And BDS is right there to promote that cause.

Israel is forced into lose, lose decisions. Like the flotilla. Should Israel allow them to break the siege or shoot up a bunch of unarmed civilians in international waters. Of course Israel always chooses violence.

Israel is shooting itself in the foot again.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *Taz*
> PS Israel has sooooo won, and you know it. And I have no dog in this fight, just a casual observer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel won't be militarily defeated by anyone...
> 
> The country will suffer the proverbial "death of a thousand cuts".
> 
> The nature and magnitude of the "cuts" vary and will continue to vary wildly:
> 
> From Manhattan skyscrappers being reduced to rubble by jumbo jets to Palestinian young ladies being arrested in the middle of the night.
> 
> Surprisingly enough, some of the "cuts" are self-inflicted, such as Israel's inability to control her own ethnocratic expansionism over the West Bank.
> 
> Each and every one of the "cuts" will continue to slowly chip away a small portion of the country's international standing and legitimacy until its final demise.
> 
> Ahed's arrest and the international outcry it is generating are just another nail in the coffin of the jewish racial dictatorship.
Click to expand...



Manhattan's skyscrapers, or 9/11 if that's what you are referring to, has nothing to do with Israel.

BTW, Jose, you always made a big deal about Jews not looking like Semites.  What do you think about Ahed's blonde hair?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Understanding the Current Palestinian Revolt: Its Context and Consequences for Palestinian Society*

Panelists Phyllis Bennis and Rania Khalek

**


----------



## Hollie

More of the disease that is also known as “Pal’Istan Arab”




Fatah celebrates murder of “126 Zionists”  - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Fatah celebrates murder of “126 Zionists”
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 5, 2018 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">



Share |

*Fatah celebrates murder of "126 Zionists"* 

*Fatah idolizes terrorist who was responsible for murder of 9*

*Two planners of Olympic massacre of Israeli athletes honored as: "Men who believed in the inevitable victory and followed the path of liberation"



*
*Fatah about terrorist murderer of 9: *
*"May Allah wrap his soul in thousands of mercies"*
*"Praise to the Martyrs who are more precious than all of us together"*


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. The angry Islamics are spending quality time in their basements with explosives. 

Where does the welfare money go?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Fatah honors last month’s murderer of father of 6  as “young lion” - PMW Bulletins

THE PALESTINIAN WORLD 








PMW Bulletins
Fatah honors last month’s murderer of father of 6 as “young lion”

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 6, 2018 " 

*Fatah honors last month's murderer of father of 6 as "young lion"

Posts footage of yesterday's stabbing attack *


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Abbas' Fatah Movement was quick to honor as a "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar who led the group of terrorists who shot and murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, father of 6, in a drive-by shooting last month. The terrorist was killed by Israeli soldiers yesterday while resisting arrest. Fatah posted the picture of Jarrar with his father, calling him the "young lion":




*Posted text and text on top of image*: "This young lion is of that lion"
*Texts below faces*: "Martyr Nasr Jarrar ... Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar"
[Official Fatah Facebook page, Feb. 6, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Great.  Sefad in northern Israel also has a wonderful artists' colony.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on Palestinian Right of Return - UN Resolution 194*

**


----------



## Hollie

There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.


Let the refugees return.

Problem solved.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.
> 
> 
> 
> Let the refugees return.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...



Let the former refugees (nobody is a refugee after 70 years) settle and build lives, with some monetary help, wherever they happen to be.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.
> 
> 
> 
> Let the refugees return.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...


Lebanon, Egypt and Syria won’t take them. Your Arab-Islamist brethren have had quite enough of so-called “Pal’istanians”


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.
> 
> 
> 
> Let the refugees return.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let the former refugees (nobody is a refugee after 70 years) settle and build lives, with some monetary help, wherever they happen to be.
Click to expand...

Tinmore obviously has no plan regarding who would provide for a slew of foreign Arabs-Moslems who have no education, job skills or means to support themselves. A massive welfare burden that he expects someone else to pay for. He’s also silent regarding the right of return for non-Islamics driven out of the Middle East. 

We just read a lot of Koran thumping bluster from him.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> Let the former refugees (nobody is a refugee after 70 years) settle and build lives, with some monetary help, wherever they happen to be.



*Einat Wilf*​



*Date of birth* 11 December 1970 (age 47)
*Place of birth* Jerusalem
*Knessets* 18
*Faction represented in Knesset
2010–2011* Labor Party
*2011–2013* Independence​
*Einat Wilf* (Hebrew: עינת וילף‎, born 11 December 1970) is an Israeli politician who served as a member of the Knesset for Independence and the Labor Party.


Pay attention to this excerpt of the video: 

58:58 to 01:00:20

There was a report published recently by the International Crisis group, I don't know if you know it, it's a think-tank organization, I can assure you not a zionist one.

They did a big piece called "*Bringing back the Palestinian refugee question*". And they said very courageously:

"If we don't discuss this issue seriously we will never make peace..."

and they added in a small phrase:

"and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace."

That's of course the problem but what they describe is that *the ethos of the refugee, of the return is so powerful that even when there are projects or initiatives to improve living conditions, to even paint houses, there's a rejection because anything that sends the message of permanence, that this is my home is one that's immediately rejected. Theres no concept even of "let's live a good life in the meantime until we return"... no... it's "don't touch anything because this is not permanent, this is temporary... doesn't matter if it's been 50 years".*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a novel idea. Welfare recipients on strike.
> 
> 
> 
> Let the refugees return.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Let the former refugees (nobody is a refugee after 70 years) settle and build lives, with some monetary help, wherever they happen to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tinmore obviously has no plan regarding who would provide for a slew of foreign Arabs-Moslems who have no education, job skills or means to support themselves. A massive welfare burden that he expects someone else to pay for. He’s also silent regarding the right of return for non-Islamics driven out of the Middle East.
> 
> We just read a lot of Koran thumping bluster from him.
Click to expand...


I would tend to disagree.  He is a clueless fool in Islamic hands, but he himself doesn't thump the Koran.  He just mouthes abstract philosophy and is blind to realities. (For instance, there is his insistence that Israel has no land.  I was walking on SOMETHING the last time I was there.)


----------



## José

I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:

"If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."

If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.


----------



## José

Talk about being hopelessly blind to the reality of what palestinian refugees really think and aspire, ForeverYoung. : )


----------



## Hollie

José said:


> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.



Another Tinmore clone, apparently. *PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE™️ *In the view of Jew haters always centers around the need to destroy Israel and kill Jews. 

Odd how they never mention a plan or right of return for non-Islamics who have been nearly purged from the Islamist Middle East.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Talk about being hopelessly blind to the reality of what palestinian refugees really think and aspire, ForeverYoung. : )



And what exactly is that?  Have you interviewed them?  I would venture a guess that you've never been to the area or talked to an Arab.  I have.


----------



## P F Tinmore

José said:


> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.


*No Justice - No Peace*
I can't count how many times I have heard that. Israel always wants peace without justice. That is why 25 years of fake peace talks have failed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.
> 
> 
> 
> *No Justice - No Peace*
> I can't count how many times I have heard that. Israel always wants peace without justice. That is why 25 years of fake peace talks have failed.
Click to expand...


You might want to consult your Korans for why peace talks have failed. 

You may have noticed that absent infidels, Islamics will quickly find reasons to kill, slaughter and maim other Islamics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.
> 
> 
> 
> *No Justice - No Peace*
> I can't count how many times I have heard that. Israel always wants peace without justice. That is why 25 years of fake peace talks have failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You might want to consult your Korans for why peace talks have failed.
> 
> You may have noticed that absent infidels, Islamics will quickly find reasons to kill, slaughter and maim other Islamics.
Click to expand...

Posting more clutter, I see.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.
> 
> 
> 
> *No Justice - No Peace*
> I can't count how many times I have heard that. Israel always wants peace without justice. That is why 25 years of fake peace talks have failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You might want to consult your Korans for why peace talks have failed.
> 
> You may have noticed that absent infidels, Islamics will quickly find reasons to kill, slaughter and maim other Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Posting more clutter, I see.
Click to expand...


Your same, tired, cut and paste slogans, I see.

You missed the whole Syria and Islamics killing, slaughtering and maiming other Islamics thing, I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## José

On one hand you have ForeverYoung, in a state of total alienation from the reality of the West Bank, Gaza and refugee camps, saying Palestinians should renounce to their homeland and build a new life wherever they happen to be:

*Let the former refugees (nobody is a refugee after 70 years) settle and build lives, with some monetary help, wherever they happen to be.*

On the other hand you have a zionist spokesperson, Einat Wilf, showing the reality of refugee camps, where Palestinians oppose even the painting of their homes:

*the ethos of the refugee, of the return is so powerful that even when there are projects or initiatives to improve living conditions, to even paint houses, there's a rejection because anything that sends the message of permanence, that this is my home is one that's immediately rejected.*

They reject wall paint, for Christ's sake!!!!

Einat is not saying they reject, for example, an IDF squad patrolling the narrow alleys of their refugee camps everyday.

They reject wall paint!!

Nothing more than mere, miserable wall paint!!

They don't want anything that could even remotely suggest to any visitor that they are starting to consider the refugee camps as their permanent homes and Lebannon, Jordan, Egypt, Gaza or the West Bank as their homelands.

Listen to the small excerpt of the video for yourself if you find this too unreal to believe. Straight from Einat's mouth, a zionist who's sincere enough to admit that this is the unbelievable level of the palestinian rejection of the refugee camps as their homes and the West Bank, Gaza and the neighboring arab contries as their homelands.

You have ForeverYoung naively asking Palestinians to accept the loss of their homeland when they don't even accept wall paint in their refugee camps!!

If this is the kind of "knowledge" you get from visiting or living in Israel I want to stay the hell away from the country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi*

Richard Burden MP, chair of Britain-Palestine All Party Parliamentary Group, announced that he and a group of parliamentarians will submit an Early Day Motion on Wednesday 7 February 2018 to the British Parliament calling for the release of Ahed Tamimi, and all child prisoners, from the Israeli  jails. The paper will also demand that Israel should respect human rights and provide decent living conditions inside the prisons.

This came at the end of a session in the British Parliament that the General Union of Palestinian Students in the United Kingdom organised in cooperation with the Britain Palestine Communication Centre. Twelve members from across the parties were represented, along with four members of the House of Lords, in addition to representatives of a group of human rights and media organisations and a large number of Palestinian students.

This also comes in light of the Palestinian child prisoners Campaign run by the PSC calling upon the British government to make a public statement that it will take immediate, effective and meaningful action- including through international bodies-to ensure a list of requirements to be implemented by the Israeli government without delay in regards to detaining children.

UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Richard Burden MP, chair of Britain-Palestine All Party Parliamentary Group, announced that he and a group of parliamentarians will submit an Early Day Motion on Wednesday 7 February 2018 to the British Parliament calling for the release of Ahed Tamimi, and all child prisoners, from the Israeli  jails. The paper will also demand that Israel should respect human rights and provide decent living conditions inside the prisons.
> 
> This came at the end of a session in the British Parliament that the General Union of Palestinian Students in the United Kingdom organised in cooperation with the Britain Palestine Communication Centre. Twelve members from across the parties were represented, along with four members of the House of Lords, in addition to representatives of a group of human rights and media organisations and a large number of Palestinian students.
> 
> This also comes in light of the Palestinian child prisoners Campaign run by the PSC calling upon the British government to make a public statement that it will take immediate, effective and meaningful action- including through international bodies-to ensure a list of requirements to be implemented by the Israeli government without delay in regards to detaining children.
> 
> UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi



Maybe a flotilla on the Thames?


----------



## Hollie

Well honestly, paranoia and delusional thinking is a characteristic of cults. The particular Islamic Death Cult known as "Pal'istanians" is something of a model for paranoia and delusional thinking.



Fatah claims Israel won`t hesitate to kill Abbas - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Fatah claims Israel won`t hesitate to kill Abbas
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 7, 2018 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">



Share |libel that Israel assassinated Arafat with poison.

Fatah posted on Facebook that Israel wouldn't "hesitate" to kill Abbas, "After all they already killed Arafat before him":


----------



## P F Tinmore

Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon speaks about the horrific situation for Palestinian child prisoners in the Senate on February 6 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ahed Tamimi to be held in custody throughout her trial


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ahed Tamimi to be held in custody throughout her trial


What is taking so long? Kangaroos on strike?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi to be held in custody throughout her trial
> 
> 
> 
> What is taking so long? Kangaroos on strike?
Click to expand...


Your online gee-had is tractionless and ignored. That has been the reaction of the Arab-Islamist world which has no interest in "Pal'istanian" incitement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi to be held in custody throughout her trial
> 
> 
> 
> What is taking so long? Kangaroos on strike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your online gee-had is tractionless and ignored. That has been the reaction of the Arab-Islamist world which has no interest in "Pal'istanian" incitement.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> "Pal'istanian" incitement


Like Israel shooting her cousin in the face?


----------



## P F Tinmore

I wish I knew what they were saying.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi to be held in custody throughout her trial
> 
> 
> 
> What is taking so long? Kangaroos on strike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your online gee-had is tractionless and ignored. That has been the reaction of the Arab-Islamist world which has no interest in "Pal'istanian" incitement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Pal'istanian" incitement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like Israel shooting her cousin in the face?
Click to expand...


A rather short lived propaganda ploy for Pallywood Studios.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I wish I knew what they were saying.



It's pretty typical that your cutting and pasting involves "stuff" you don't understand.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Big brave IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) arrest a dangerous terrorist!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Big brave IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) arrest a dangerous terrorist!



You people are always quick to use children as a disposable commodity for Pallywood Studios propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## admonit

José said:


> I would like to "correct" the words of the article published by the International Crisis Group cited by Einat Wilf:
> 
> "If we don't discuss the refugee issue seriously we will never make peace and if we do discuss this issue seriously there is a question whether we can make peace *WITHOUT JUSTICE*."
> 
> If the words of a very articulate, thoughtful zionist jewish woman who travels the world defending the state of Israel cannot convince you that peace decoupled from justice will never bring the israeli-palestinian conflict to an end then nothing will.


What about you? Do her words convince you?

"The core of the conflict remains the denial and rejection that the Jewish people have any right any business being in this land."
"Until you realize that the injustice that needs to be corrected so that there will be justice for Palestine is the very existence of the state of Israel. Only when that injustice is made to go away can there be justice for Palestine. And then you realize that 'Justice for Palestine' is actually a very violent idea. It is about crashing the so called injustice of the existence of the state of Israel."


----------



## fanger




----------



## José

> Originally posted by *admonit*
> What about you? Do her words convince you?
> 
> 
> "The core of the conflict remains the denial and rejection that the Jewish people have any right any business being in this land."
> "Until you realize that the injustice that needs to be corrected so that there will be justice for Palestine is the very existence of the state of Israel. Only when that injustice is made to go away can there be justice for Palestine. And then you realize that 'Justice for Palestine' is actually a very violent idea. It is about crashing the so called injustice of the existence of the state of Israel."



Einat Wilf could not possibly convince me of something I always knew. Something I have been saying for the last 20 years:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not about Ariel, Ma'ale Adumin, a few inches of land west of the Green Line, a few inches of land east of the Green Line.

The conflict is about the natural right of the native people of Palestine to live in Haifa, Askhelon and Jaffa.

The fact that Einat calls the implementation of their natural right "a very violent idea" only confirms what I've already said 3 or 4 times in previous posts.

Einat Wilf is a die-hard zionist, no friend of Palestinians, so no one can accuse her of making up stories to promote their cause.

What I really didn't know was the incredible, mind-boggling "wall paint story".

I knew Palestinians hated their exile and the refugee camps they live in but I was unaware the rejection was so deep.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> Richard Burden MP, chair of Britain-Palestine All Party Parliamentary Group, announced that he and a group of parliamentarians will submit an Early Day Motion on Wednesday 7 February 2018 to the British Parliament calling for the release of Ahed Tamimi, and all child prisoners, from the Israeli  jails. The paper will also demand that Israel should respect human rights and provide decent living conditions inside the prisons.
> 
> This came at the end of a session in the British Parliament that the General Union of Palestinian Students in the United Kingdom organised in cooperation with the Britain Palestine Communication Centre. Twelve members from across the parties were represented, along with four members of the House of Lords, in addition to representatives of a group of human rights and media organisations and a large number of Palestinian students.
> 
> This also comes in light of the Palestinian child prisoners Campaign run by the PSC calling upon the British government to make a public statement that it will take immediate, effective and meaningful action- including through international bodies-to ensure a list of requirements to be implemented by the Israeli government without delay in regards to detaining children.
> 
> UK Parliament to hear demand for release of Ahed Tamimi




Perhaps the British government should get its own house in order before going after others.  Why aren't they demanding that all the youth in their prison system be released (an average of 960 children a year).


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> The conflict is about the natural right of the native people of Palestine to live in Haifa, Askhelon and Jaffa.



The native people DO live in Haifa, Askhelon and Jaffa.  The native people live all over the territory.  (The only people RESTRICTED from being present in parts of the territory are the Jewish people.)

The conflict is not about where people live.


----------



## fanger

Shusha said:


> Perhaps the British government should get its own house in order before going after others.  Why aren't they demanding that all the youth in their prison system be released (an average of 960 children a year).



People under 18 who are sentenced to custody are sent to secure centres for young people, not to adult prisons.
Young people in custody - GOV.UK


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *admonit*
> What about you? Do her words convince you?
> 
> 
> "The core of the conflict remains the denial and rejection that the Jewish people have any right any business being in this land."
> "Until you realize that the injustice that needs to be corrected so that there will be justice for Palestine is the very existence of the state of Israel. Only when that injustice is made to go away can there be justice for Palestine. And then you realize that 'Justice for Palestine' is actually a very violent idea. It is about crashing the so called injustice of the existence of the state of Israel."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Einat Wilf could not possibly convince me of something I always knew. Something I have been saying for the last 20 years:
> 
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not about Ariel, Ma'ale Adumin, a few inches of land west of the Green Line, a few inches of land east of the Green Line.
> 
> The conflict is about the natural right of the native people of Palestine to live in Haifa, Askhelon and Jaffa.
> 
> The fact that Einat calls the implementation of their natural right "a very violent idea" only confirms what I've already said 3 or 4 times in previous posts.
> 
> Einat Wilf is a die-hard zionist, no friend of Palestinians, so no one can accuse her of making up stories to promote their cause.
> 
> What I really didn't know was the incredible, mind-boggling "wall paint story".
> 
> I knew Palestinians hated their exile and the refugee camps they live in but I was unaware the rejection was so deep.
Click to expand...

 

Haifa and Jaffa are still mixed Arab/ Jewish cities.  Btw, what do you think of Ahed's blonde hair?  She doesn't look like a Semite now, does she?  And she's not the only one.  I've see others like her.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Really, Chuckles? I found it not at all surprising that you would cut and paste from Facebook showing islamic terrorists parading around with weapons and wearing their goofy ski masks. You see that as some sort of victory?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



What is this?  Why are you showing us a picture with no caption or context?


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  Why are you showing us a picture with no caption or context?
Click to expand...

Most Americans would know who this American citizen is, and why he was beaten up by israeli police


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  Why are you showing us a picture with no caption or context?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Americans would know who this American citizen is, and why he was beaten up by israeli police
Click to expand...


No, I don't think "most" Americans, who are not obsessed with Israel as you are, would necessarily know that.  So who is he?


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?  Why are you showing us a picture with no caption or context?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Americans would know who this American citizen is, and why he was beaten up by israeli police
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't think "most" Americans, who are not obsessed with Israel as you are, would necessarily know that.  So who is he?
Click to expand...

google it "american beaten by israeli police"
US ‘disappointed’ no jail time for Israeli cop who beat American teen


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



“Jail Ahed”

Thanks for that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



A Pallywood Studios affiliate?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Considering there have been Pallywood videos of Palestinian "corpses" that literally came back from the dead (for the dummies among you, like fanger, that means they pretended to be dead), how can we be sure these videos are factual?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering there have been Pallywood videos of Palestinian "corpses" that literally came back from the dead (for the dummies among you, like fanger, that means they pretended to be dead), how can we be sure these videos are factual?
Click to expand...

Are you implying that the Christian Peacemaking Team is lying?


----------



## Hollie

Official PA daily admits 161 Palestinians did carry out stabbing attacks during Palestinian terror wave 2015-2016 - PMW Bulletins













PMW Bulletins
Official PA daily admits 161 Palestinians did carry out stabbing attacks during Palestinian terror wave 2015-2016
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 8, 2018 " valign="middle" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">



Share |Palestinian wave of terror in 2015-2016 during which 40 people were murdered by Palestinians and over 500 wounded.

Palestinian Media Watch documented at the time that the PA falsely claimed that Israel "fabricated" the stabbing attacks, and "planted knives" next to the dead bodies of "innocent Palestinian victims" after having "executed" them in "cold blood." 

One cartoon tweeted by Abbas' Fatah Movement in November 2015 visualized the PA libel showing an Israeli soldier dropping knives near the bodies of dead Palestinians




Arab-.Moslem Death Cultists.

What lovely people. 

What a lovely "religion"


----------



## fanger

Like this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen*






On January 31, Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, turned 17 years old behind bars in an Israeli prison. Almost 8,000 miles away, in Oakland, Rania Salem, another 17-year-old Palestinian activist from San Francisco, joined a rally to celebrate Tamimi’s birthday and demand her release.

Tamimi could face 10 years in prison after being charged with aggravated assault and 11 other charges. On December 18, a video of her slapping two Israeli soldiers went viral. That same day, her cousin Mohamed Tamimi, who was demonstrating against the Trump administration’s decision to move the American embassy to Jerusalem, had been shot in the head with a rubber bullet. Ahed Tamimi was detained the following day.

Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen | Oakland North


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On January 31, Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, turned 17 years old behind bars in an Israeli prison. Almost 8,000 miles away, in Oakland, Rania Salem, another 17-year-old Palestinian activist from San Francisco, joined a rally to celebrate Tamimi’s birthday and demand her release.
> 
> Tamimi could face 10 years in prison after being charged with aggravated assault and 11 other charges. On December 18, a video of her slapping two Israeli soldiers went viral. That same day, her cousin Mohamed Tamimi, who was demonstrating against the Trump administration’s decision to move the American embassy to Jerusalem, had been shot in the head with a rubber bullet. Ahed Tamimi was detained the following day.
> 
> Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen | Oakland North



You should hope she is confined for a longer stretch of time. She’s much more valuable for your use as a cheap propaganda tool when kept behind bars.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On January 31, Ahed Tamimi, a Palestinian activist, turned 17 years old behind bars in an Israeli prison. Almost 8,000 miles away, in Oakland, Rania Salem, another 17-year-old Palestinian activist from San Francisco, joined a rally to celebrate Tamimi’s birthday and demand her release.
> 
> Tamimi could face 10 years in prison after being charged with aggravated assault and 11 other charges. On December 18, a video of her slapping two Israeli soldiers went viral. That same day, her cousin Mohamed Tamimi, who was demonstrating against the Trump administration’s decision to move the American embassy to Jerusalem, had been shot in the head with a rubber bullet. Ahed Tamimi was detained the following day.
> 
> Oakland activists rally to free imprisoned Palestinian teen | Oakland North
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should hope she is confined for a longer stretch of time. She’s much more valuable for your use as a cheap propaganda tool when kept behind bars.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there are Free Ahad protests all over the world. This is just fuel on the fire for Palestinian activists.

Does Israel really want to shoot itself in the foot again?


Note: Hundreds of Palestinian supporters and a half dozen Israel supporters.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian schoolgirls on the rubble of their school which was demolished today morning by Zionist occupation forces, eastern slips of occupied Jerusalem, 4 February 2018.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pictures: Demolishing commercial and agricultural establishments in the village of Esawyeh*

The occupation municipality’s crews demolished last Tuesday several containers and commercial establishments in the village of Esawyeh following a series of arrests executed in the village.

Abu Hummos also pointed out that the campaign against the village of Esawyeh began in the early morning hours by breaking into houses and executing arrests in addition to handing calls for interrogation to several young men. He said that the forces arrested nearly 40 Jerusalemites from the village.

Pictures: Demolishing commercial and agricultural establishments in the village of Esawyeh


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow You guys are really into advertising.

You rise her so high and so quickly not realizing that making her the symbol of Arab struggle, is one of the best things Israel could have to make their case against the invaders.





So much freedom in Tamimi land:

The tribe of *Banu Tamim* (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎) or *Bani Tamim* (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

*Dynasties[edit]*

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
Al Khater – a prestigious family of the middle east based primarily in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain
Banu Tamim - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

Ruling Family of Qatar is what's is holding all this charade together? ^^^^^^^^



Emir of Qatar Al- Tamim al -Thani  sends 9$ mil. as an emergency aid to Gaza
*العرب القطرية: أمير قطر يوجه بتقديم مساعدات عاجلة بقيمة 9 ملايين دولار لقطاع غزة تشمل الأدوية والمستلزمات الطبية
https://www.facebook.com/GaZa.nOw.Ps1/posts/884463295086811*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children*



I would offer that "The Plight of the Arab-Moslem Children" is largely a symptom of misfit adults a,d an adherence to Islamist ideology.

But yeah, how lucky for you that you have a child you can exploit as a means to promote your Jew hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*68 Montreal Arabic Corner Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *68 Montreal Arabic Corner Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **



I thought the address was Cell Block C?


----------



## fanger

Has cell block C got a swimming pool too?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## fanger

uploaded by  Israel Defense Forces ??


----------



## ForeverYoung436

fanger said:


> Has cell block C got a swimming pool too?




Enough of these Holocaust denial videos!  It has nothing to do with the Israel/ Palestine conflict.  As the child of Holocaust survivors, and having had a neighbor who heard her brother being murdered, I can't stand to see them.  The way my dad's family were murdered is horrific.  And if it turns out that 5 million Jews were killed instead of 6, does it make it less horrific?  It's also an insult to the American soldiers (like the father of a friend of mine) who liberated the camps and saw the living skeletons there.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel demolishes 2 apartment buildings in the West Bank*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel demolishes 2 apartment buildings in the West Bank*
> 
> **



Rent control.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel demolishes 2 apartment buildings in the West Bank*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rent control.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel demolishes 2 apartment buildings in the West Bank*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rent control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


More proof you don’t understand.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Making the world safe from Islamic terrorists.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> Btw, what do you think of Ahed's blonde hair? She doesn't look like a Semite now, does she? And she's not the only one. I've see others like her.



My answer has not changed since the last time you asked me a few weeks/months ago : )

Racial traits are an infallible way to distinguish natives from settlers in many ethnocratic conflicts around the world such as the ones that ocurred in the Americas, from Canada to Argentina and Chile, in Australia, South Africa, India, New Zealand etc, etc...

In Palestine, racial characteristics are not a foolproof way to distinguish between both groups due to the fact that you have a considerable overlap between the settler population, ie, eastern europeans of jewish faith and the native population, the arabs (including the pre-zionist jewish population).

Anyone who say race is an infallible way to separate settlers from natives in Palestine is out of his/her mind.

But guess what...

You don't need any racial differences between settlers and natives to have a racial/ethnic dictatorship like the israeli state.

Let's take, for example, the case of your ancestral homeland.... not your mythological homeland... your REAL homeland... Poland, eastern Europe in general...

Hitler's original plans was to expell the entire jewish population to Madagascar and impose a german ethnocratic state on the rest of the slavic population.

You'd have a few thousand germans lording over Poland as a social, economic elite, as a master race, as they say...

They'd be the owners of Poland's farms, industries, banks and the polish people would provide the workforce.

Even though the racial differences between Germans and Poles are almost nonexistent (if they exist at all), Germany would have created and imposed an ethnocratic, apartheid state on the polish people.

The differences between the exploited native polish population, inhabiting Poland for thousands of years, and the settler german population who arrived in Poland only after Hitler's victory would have continued to exist indefinitely, for centuries to come.

Translating the analogy to Palestine:

There are no *racial* differences between Ahed Tamimi and the grandson of a jewish settler from Poland who arrived in Palestine in, let's say, 1928.

But just like the german vs. poles scenario, there is a world of *historical* difference between them.

Even though they are racially indistinguishable, Ahed is part of the native population that inhabited Palestine for thousand of years while the jewish young man is the grandson of polish settlers who arrived in 28.

To make a long story short:

In Poland or in Palestine, *you don't need any racial differences between natives and settlers to have a settler society and, later, a supremacist state*.

If Hitler could have created a german ethnocracy in Poland where there wouldn't be any racial differences between settlers and natives, europeans of jewish faith could create a jewish ethnocracy in Palestine as well... where there are considerable more racial differences between natives and settlers (and they did).


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> The native people DO live in Haifa, Askhelon and Jaffa. The native people live all over the territory. (The only people RESTRICTED from being present in parts of the territory are the Jewish people.)
> 
> The conflict is not about where people live.



This is a mockery of the word native.

The moment you accept europeans of jewish faith as natives of Palestine the word native loses any meaning.

From that moment on, you might just as well include Mao Tse Tung, Sitting Bull and Idi Amin as natives of Palestine.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


>


uploaded by  IsraeliPM  ?
He will be in jail soon


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uploaded by  IsraeliPM  ?
> He will be in jail soon
Click to expand...


Is that what your Mullah told you or did you steal that Juan Cole?


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uploaded by  IsraeliPM  ?
> He will be in jail soon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that what your Mullah told you or did you steal that Juan Cole?
Click to expand...

I dont have a mullah, i just clicked on your link and pointed out who had uploaded the video IsraeliPM  a Mr Netanyahu, and left a link to a site showing that the same Mr netanyahu may be facing jail time for corruption


----------



## P F Tinmore

*5th Year Running: Al-Shabaka Ranks High Amongst 2017’s Best Think Tank Networks*

Al-Shabaka ranks among the world’s best think tank networks for the fifth consecutive year, according to the 2017 Global Go To Think Tank Index report.*\*

Placing 36th out of 85 think tanks in the “Best Think Tank Network” category, Al-Shabaka surpasses such reputable institutions as the International Relations and Security Network (ISN) (Switzerland), CIDOB, Barcelona (Spain), and Transparency International (TI) (Germany).

This year’s placement is particularly notable as nearly 1,000 new think tanks were included in the Global Think Tank Database in 2017.

*5th Year Running: Al-Shabaka Ranks High Amongst 2017’s Best Think Tank Networks - Al-Shabaka*


----------



## Hollie

I don’t know, I guess Islamics just enjoy getting a beat-down.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> This is a mockery of the word native.
> 
> The moment you accept europeans of jewish faith as natives of Palestine the word native loses any meaning.
> 
> From that moment on, you might just as well include Mao Tse Tung, Sitting Bull and Idi Amin as natives of Palestine.



I disagree with your definition of "native".  You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence.  I disagree.  In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.  

Clearly immigrants and descendants of immigrants are not (and should not be) prohibited from investing in their new territory.  But the question then becomes when, exactly, these new immigrants or their descendants become "natives".  Immediately?  After a certain passage of time?  In the next generation?  After two generations?  Ten?  What is the criteria, in your opinion?

Just as clearly, natives invaded, conquered and forcibly removed from their territory are not (and should not be) prohibited from considering themselves "native" to their territory of origin.  But the question becomes when, exactly, these removed people cease to be natives.  Immediately?  After a certain passage of time?  In the next generation?  After two generations?  Ten?  What is the criteria, in your opinion?

And then we get to the litmus test.  By what criteria are a peoples with a home of native origin considered to no longer exist and therefore without claim to a territory of origin?  Immediately?  After a certain passage of time?  In the next generation?  After two generations?  Ten?  By what criteria do a new peoples arise with a home of native origin?

The bottom line is this:  If a peoples exist and are clearly, without question, native to a specific territory, by what criteria can they be denied their collective rights to self-determination on that territory?  Spell it out for me.  Give me rules.  Make sure they apply universally.  What is the objective criteria?  

Here's my answer:  If a peoples exist and they clearly are native to a specific territory (originated there), their collective rights can never be abrogated.  Colonists and immigrants, over time, gain rights by long residence on a territory.  Both peoples must be considered.  

So.  That leaves us with a fundamental, fair, easily understood avenue to solving conflicts of territory between competing peoples.  It is, in fact, the solution applied almost universally in the past 100 years.  The territory in question is partitioned.  Both (all) peoples receive some portion of land where they may exercise their own self-determination.

So why can't we apply this to "Palestine"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> I don’t know, I guess Islamics just enjoy getting a beat-down.


What, you mean like the Juden enjoyed their beat down in WW2


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

I watched Ahed Tamimi grow up and I know why she defended her home


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Innocent" Israeli civilian.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,


The phrase "*"Innocent" Israeli civilian"* are words of description and NOT the language used to make the distinction between "Civilians and Combatants" found in the Customary Rules of International Humanitarian Law (IHL); see *Rules 1 thru 6* in the ICRC Database.



P F Tinmore said:


> *"Innocent" Israeli civilian.*


*(COMMENT)*

The question here is somewhat different than you might first expect.  Is the purpose of this person being armed to protect the children and defend against Arab Palestinian acts _(or threats of violence)_ the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.

What I find interesting is the hidden intent of the question.  Maybe it is to justify _(the unspoken)_ attacks that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are famous:  attacks against restaurants,  amusement and entertainment locations, civilian mass transit, locations of a religious significance, and other soft targets.  When Article 51(2), Additional Protocol 1, is constantly and consistently ignored by the HoAP, it becomes necessary for the Israelis to take what measures available to them, to mitigate the threat. 

The suggestion that the Israeli use of (armed) off-duty law enforcement, security and military personnel to defend against HoAP terrorism prohibited by Article 51(2), Additional Protocol 1, is absurd.  

Other than the fact that this mother of two is armed, she is _(for all other intent and purposes)_ an "innocent civilian" guarding against the greater threat presented by cowardly actions that the past history of the HoAP behaviors have proven all too possible.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> The phrase "*"Innocent" Israeli civilian"* are words of description and NOT the language used to make the distinction between "Civilians and Combatants" found in the Customary Rules of International Humanitarian Law (IHL); see *Rules 1 thru 6* in the ICRC Database.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Innocent" Israeli civilian.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question here is somewhat different than you might first expect.  Is the purpose of this person being armed to protect the children and defend against Arab Palestinian acts _(or threats of violence)_ the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.
> 
> What I find interesting is the hidden intent of the question.  Maybe it is to justify _(the unspoken)_ attacks that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are famous:  attacks against restaurants,  amusement and entertainment locations, civilian mass transit, locations of a religious significance, and other soft targets.  When Article 51(2), Additional Protocol 1, is constantly and consistently ignored by the HoAP, it becomes necessary for the Israelis to take what measures available to them, to mitigate the threat.
> 
> The suggestion that the Israeli use of (armed) off-duty law enforcement, security and military personnel to defend against HoAP terrorism prohibited by Article 51(2), Additional Protocol 1, is absurd.
> 
> Other than the fact that this mother of two is armed, she is _(for all other intent and purposes)_ an "innocent civilian" guarding against the greater threat presented by cowardly actions that the past history of the HoAP behaviors have proven all too possible.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Your usual slime piece.

How do the Palestinians defend themselves?


----------



## fanger




----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


>



Both you and your Islamic terrorist heroes really do have a need to exploit children for propaganda purposes. 

Approved by your Mullah?


----------



## fanger

Approved by israel,


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation*



It seems that the very least you could do would be to go on a hunger strike, or maybe organize a flotilla. 

But no. There you sit. Behind the comfort of your keyboard, cutting and pasting YouTube videos. 

That’s some sorry gee-had ya’ got there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the very least you could do would be to go on a hunger strike, or maybe organize a flotilla.
> 
> But no. There you sit. Behind the comfort of your keyboard, cutting and pasting YouTube videos.
> 
> That’s some sorry gee-had ya’ got there.
Click to expand...

Information is a critical part of the struggle. If people's only information is Israeli bullshit, they will support Israel.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> I disagree with your definition of "native". You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence. I disagree. In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.



The problem is not my definition of native. 

The real problem is your inability to come to terms with the fact that the mythological ancestry of ethiopians, Indians and europeans of jewish faith is just that: religious myth.

The arab people who inhabited Palestine when the zionist movement started, in 1880, were the offspring of all the biblical peoples who lived there with the addition of around 15, 20% of immigrants coming from Arabia and a very tiny influx of other peoples, like the Crusaders from Europe, etc, etc... as well as the natural population exchanges that occur in all neighboring regions and countries in the world, like America and Canada/Mexico, China and Mongolia/Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe/Botswana, Argentina and Chile/Paraguai etc, etc ...

This is the big irony of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict:

The real descendants of the ancient Jews who inhabited that region are the same people who are now being confined into ethnic enclaves, murdered, arrested and expelled in the name of Judaism, the religion of their ancestors.

The real "Jews" of Palestine being dehumanized, treated as foreigners in the same historical homeland of their jewish ancestors by a population of converts to Judaism from around the world in the name of the religion of their ancestors.

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *"Innocent" Israeli civilian.*



Explain to me, how  does it work in Your mind?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that the very least you could do would be to go on a hunger strike, or maybe organize a flotilla.
> 
> But no. There you sit. Behind the comfort of your keyboard, cutting and pasting YouTube videos.
> 
> That’s some sorry gee-had ya’ got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Information is a critical part of the struggle. If people's only information is Israeli bullshit, they will support Israel.
Click to expand...


You spend too much time in your alternate universe of fear, superstition and contrived conspiracy theories.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> I disagree with your definition of "native". You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence. I disagree. In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not my definition of native.
> 
> The real problem is your inability to come to terms with the fact that the mythological ancestry of ethiopians, Indians and europeans of jewish faith is just that: religious myth.
> 
> The arab people who inhabited Palestine when the zionist movement started, in 1880, were the offspring of all the biblical peoples who lived there with the addition of around 15, 20% of immigrants coming from Arabia and a very tiny influx of other peoples, like the Crusaders from Europe, etc, etc... as well as the natural population exchanges that occur in all neighboring regions and countries in the world, like America and Canada/Mexico, China and Mongolia/Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe/Botswana, Argentina and Chile/Paraguai etc, etc ...
> 
> This is the big irony of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict:
> 
> The real descendants of the ancient Jews who inhabited that region are the same people who are now being confined into ethnic enclaves, murdered, arrested and expelled in the name of Judaism, the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> The real "Jews" of Palestine being dehumanized, treated as foreigners in the same historical homeland of their jewish ancestors by a population of converts to Judaism from around the world in the name of the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> You can't make this shit up.
Click to expand...


Sure.  You are making the claim that "ancestry" and "nativeness" are a product of presence, rather than a product of culture or origin.  

The problem with that point of view is that the Israelis and their descendants are again present and therefore have become  natives in exactly the same way that the foreign conquerers, invaders and immigrants became native (though they are ALSO descendants so of course NOT actually foreigners).


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Your usual slime piece.



Well, that's rich.  Considering you just posted what? five photos without comment or context or content in order to slime Israel and Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual slime piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's rich.  Considering you just posted what? five photos without comment or context or content in order to slime Israel and Jews.
Click to expand...

Israel is sliming itself.


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> I disagree with your definition of "native". You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence. I disagree. In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not my definition of native.
> 
> The real problem is your inability to come to terms with the fact that the mythological ancestry of ethiopians, Indians and europeans of jewish faith is just that: religious myth.
> 
> The arab people who inhabited Palestine when the zionist movement started, in 1880, were the offspring of all the biblical peoples who lived there with the addition of around 15, 20% of immigrants coming from Arabia and a very tiny influx of other peoples, like the Crusaders from Europe, etc, etc... as well as the natural population exchanges that occur in all neighboring regions and countries in the world, like America and Canada/Mexico, China and Mongolia/Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe/Botswana, Argentina and Chile/Paraguai etc, etc ...
> 
> This is the big irony of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict:
> 
> The real descendants of the ancient Jews who inhabited that region are the same people who are now being confined into ethnic enclaves, murdered, arrested and expelled in the name of Judaism, the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> The real "Jews" of Palestine being dehumanized, treated as foreigners in the same historical homeland of their jewish ancestors by a population of converts to Judaism from around the world in the name of the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> You can't make this shit up.
Click to expand...


First came the Romans, hijacked our religion and claimed they're the New Israel...all while Jews were busy writing their most fundamental works in the Galilee.

Then came the invading Arabian tribes who claimed all Jews were Arab Muslims... while  giving all those same Jews who lived in that empire a Yellow Star.

Apparently some sort of identity crisis. 
And the recent charade of Bedouins calling themselves "the sea people" is another anecdote of that sort.


----------



## admonit

José said:


> Originally posted by *admonit*
> What about you? Do her words convince you?
> 
> 
> "The core of the conflict remains the denial and rejection that the Jewish people have any right any business being in this land."
> "Until you realize that the injustice that needs to be corrected so that there will be justice for Palestine is the very existence of the state of Israel. Only when that injustice is made to go away can there be justice for Palestine. And then you realize that 'Justice for Palestine' is actually a very violent idea. It is about crashing the so called injustice of the existence of the state of Israel."
> 
> 
> 
> What I really didn't know was the incredible, mind-boggling "wall paint story".
> 
> I knew Palestinians hated their exile and the refugee camps they live in but I was unaware the rejection was so deep.
Click to expand...

Today millions of real refugees live in tents. They can only dream about housing "Palestinian refugees" enjoy. Even without paint walls.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual slime piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's rich.  Considering you just posted what? five photos without comment or context or content in order to slime Israel and Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is sliming itself.
Click to expand...


I can’t imagine what point you believe is served with your juvenile slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*
> 
> **



So is she out of the jail yet?

Aside from old interviews with known Jew haters.. . do they do anything BUT confrontations on camera? Does her father work anywhere beside PLO?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> I disagree with your definition of "native". You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence. I disagree. In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not my definition of native.
> 
> The real problem is your inability to come to terms with the fact that the mythological ancestry of ethiopians, Indians and europeans of jewish faith is just that: religious myth.
> 
> The arab people who inhabited Palestine when the zionist movement started, in 1880, were the offspring of all the biblical peoples who lived there with the addition of around 15, 20% of immigrants coming from Arabia and a very tiny influx of other peoples, like the Crusaders from Europe, etc, etc... as well as the natural population exchanges that occur in all neighboring regions and countries in the world, like America and Canada/Mexico, China and Mongolia/Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe/Botswana, Argentina and Chile/Paraguai etc, etc ...
> 
> This is the big irony of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict:
> 
> The real descendants of the ancient Jews who inhabited that region are the same people who are now being confined into ethnic enclaves, murdered, arrested and expelled in the name of Judaism, the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> The real "Jews" of Palestine being dehumanized, treated as foreigners in the same historical homeland of their jewish ancestors by a population of converts to Judaism from around the world in the name of the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> You can't make this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First came the Romans, hijacked our religion and claimed they're the New Israel...all while Jews were busy writing their most fundamental works in the Galilee.
> 
> Then came the invading Arabian tribes who claimed all Jews were Arab Muslims... while  giving all those same Jews who lived in that empire a Yellow Star.
> 
> Apparently some sort of identity crisis.
> And the recent charade of Bedouins calling themselves "the sea people" is another anecdote of that sort.
Click to expand...

Through all of the invasions, conquests, and occupations, a core group of people stayed and put down roots.

Those are the Palestinians of today.


----------



## Shusha

The only "freedom" Ahed is fighting for is the *cough cough* freedom to live in a Jew-free world.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*
> 
> **



Think of jail time for Ahed as an opportunity for her to experience the world outside of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult. An intervention, if you will. 

She has the chance to become a better person.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is she out of the jail yet?
Click to expand...

No, the kangaroo court has yet to convene.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> I disagree with your definition of "native". You seem to imply that those living on the territory are "native" by the fact of their residence. I disagree. In the Americas, for example, those residing on the territory are not natives, but colonists, immigrants and descendants of colonists and immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is not my definition of native.
> 
> The real problem is your inability to come to terms with the fact that the mythological ancestry of ethiopians, Indians and europeans of jewish faith is just that: religious myth.
> 
> The arab people who inhabited Palestine when the zionist movement started, in 1880, were the offspring of all the biblical peoples who lived there with the addition of around 15, 20% of immigrants coming from Arabia and a very tiny influx of other peoples, like the Crusaders from Europe, etc, etc... as well as the natural population exchanges that occur in all neighboring regions and countries in the world, like America and Canada/Mexico, China and Mongolia/Russia, South Africa and Zimbabwe/Botswana, Argentina and Chile/Paraguai etc, etc ...
> 
> This is the big irony of the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict:
> 
> The real descendants of the ancient Jews who inhabited that region are the same people who are now being confined into ethnic enclaves, murdered, arrested and expelled in the name of Judaism, the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> The real "Jews" of Palestine being dehumanized, treated as foreigners in the same historical homeland of their jewish ancestors by a population of converts to Judaism from around the world in the name of the religion of their ancestors.
> 
> You can't make this shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First came the Romans, hijacked our religion and claimed they're the New Israel...all while Jews were busy writing their most fundamental works in the Galilee.
> 
> Then came the invading Arabian tribes who claimed all Jews were Arab Muslims... while  giving all those same Jews who lived in that empire a Yellow Star.
> 
> Apparently some sort of identity crisis.
> And the recent charade of Bedouins calling themselves "the sea people" is another anecdote of that sort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Through all of the invasions, conquests, and occupations, a core group of people stayed and put down roots.
> 
> Those are the Palestinians of today.
Click to expand...


Another of your silly “.... because I say so”, claims.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is she out of the jail yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the kangaroo court has yet to convene.
Click to expand...


I’m afraid you won’t get you wish to have a Pakistani-style tribal council be the decision makers. 

This ain’t your Islamist sharia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Message From A Freedom Fighter: Ahed Tamimi meets Abby Martin*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is she out of the jail yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the kangaroo court has yet to convene.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’m afraid you won’t get you wish to have a Pakistani-style tribal council be the decision makers.
> 
> This ain’t your Islamist sharia.
Click to expand...

Sharia courts do no handle criminal cases.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

“Slapping An Israeli Soldier More Newsworthy Than Shooting A Palestinian Child In The Face.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> “Slapping An Israeli Soldier More Newsworthy Than Shooting A Palestinian Child In The Face.”



What’s noteworthy is the propensity of you Islamics to use children for cheap propaganda sound bites.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Empowerment and the Dar al-Kalima College in Bethlehem
Rev. Dr. Mitri Raheb Pastor, Christmas Lutheran Church


----------



## P F Tinmore

On the way to school.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Interview with Ahed Tamimi's lawyer.

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2018-01/ahedtamimiadalahnypodcast.mp3


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in the “Every Child For the gee-had” Death Cult.







Fatah glorified Wednesday`s terrorist: "Heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic stabbing operation" - PMW Bulletins


PMW Bulletins
Fatah glorified Wednesday`s terrorist: "Heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic stabbing operation"
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 11, 2018 

*Fatah glorified Wednesday's terrorist: 
"Heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic 
stabbing operation"*

*On Friday, Fatah called for day of violence:
    "Friday of the Martyrs Rage! 
       Feb. 9, 2018"*

*PLO called for Martyrdom:
"The blood of the Martyrs is the light of freedom"*
By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik



Contradicting Mahmoud Abbas' claims that the PA "seeks peace," his Fatah Movement continues to glorify terrorists and promote terror. On Wednesday last week, just hours after a terror attack, Fatah was already honoring the terrorist. The terrorist, Hamza Yusuf Zamaarah, who was killed while trying to stab an Israeli security guard, was immediately hailed as the "*heroic Martyr... who carried out the heroic stabbing operation*," by Fatah's Bethlehem branch. Fatah also asked Allah to "have mercy on the Martyr, let him dwell in Paradise, and grant his family consolation and patience." 
[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement - Bethlehem Branch, Feb. 7, 2018]


----------



## Hollie

Just another day in the Islamist Death Cult.

Islamics and their disposable children.


[MEMRI TV] Children on Hamas TV: We Want to Wage Jihad and Blow Up the Jews


----------



## Hollie

Islamics - the next generation of psychopaths.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" _are_ Jordanians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Music to Mend Hearts in the Dark Days of War | Hala Saleh | TEDxSaltLakeCity*

**


----------



## Hollie

Mending homes in Gaza’istan


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

I’m really hoping that the Trump administration will cut off all welfare payments to the Islamic Death Cult. 




Fatah: Suicide bomber is "the giant" who "blew himself up inside a Zionist bus" - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Fatah: Suicide bomber is "the giant" who "blew himself up inside a Zionist bus"
by By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Feb. 12, 2018 

*Fatah: Suicide bomber is "the giant"*
*who "blew himself up inside a Zionist bus... *
*which led to the death of 11 Zionists"*







By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Fatah celebrated the anniversary of the death of a "heroic Martyr" and "giant" who blew himself up on a bus in Jerusalem and murdered 11 Israelis and wounded dozens, on Jan. 29, 2004. The suicide bomber Ali Munir Yusuf Ja'ara was from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (Fatah's military wing) and a member of the PA police force.

Fatah's Bethlehem branch praised the murderer and celebrated his killing of "11 Zionists":


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abbas Gives Up on US, but Palestinians Give Up on Him*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi's trial gets under way behind closed doors*

Court proceedings began on Tuesday at 
Israel's Ofer detention centre, with only family members allowed into the hearing   after the judge barred reporters despite a request for a public trial by Gaby Lasky, the lawyer of the Tamimis. 

"The court decided to close the doors because they think that it's not good for Ahed. But what I think is that the court doesn't think it's good for the court," Lasky told reporters. 

Ahed Tamimi's trial gets under way behind closed doors


----------



## P F Tinmore

*I'm Ahed Tamimi's cousin. Israel needs to stop imprisoning kids like her.*

By Nour Tamimi







_Nour Tamimi is a journalism student and activist from Nabi Saleh in the occupied West Bank_.

I had barely fallen asleep when I woke to find an armed Israeli soldier hovering over my bed. He told me to get up quickly and put on a jacket. Half asleep, I was handcuffed, thrown into an army jeep, and taken to be interrogated. They had already taken my 16-year-old cousin, Ahed, the night before, and now it was my turn.

A few days earlier, the Israeli army raided our town of Nabi Saleh in the occupied West Bank to suppress our weekly demonstration against the illegal Jewish settlement built on our land and the theft of our fresh-water spring by settlers. During the demonstration, a soldier shot our 15-year-old cousin Mohammad in the face from close range, shattering his skull. He was rushed to the hospital and had to be medically induced into a coma. About half an hour later, still traumatized by what happened to our cousin, we found soldiers in the front yard of Ahed’s home where we were sitting and tried to get them to leave. For demanding they leave, my unarmed cousin is now facing charges for confronting an armed soldier.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...rael-needs-to-stop-imprisoning-kids-like-her/


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *I'm Ahed Tamimi's cousin. Israel needs to stop imprisoning kids like her.*
> 
> By Nour Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Nour Tamimi is a journalism student and activist from Nabi Saleh in the occupied West Bank_.
> 
> I had barely fallen asleep when I woke to find an armed Israeli soldier hovering over my bed. He told me to get up quickly and put on a jacket. Half asleep, I was handcuffed, thrown into an army jeep, and taken to be interrogated. They had already taken my 16-year-old cousin, Ahed, the night before, and now it was my turn.
> 
> A few days earlier, the Israeli army raided our town of Nabi Saleh in the occupied West Bank to suppress our weekly demonstration against the illegal Jewish settlement built on our land and the theft of our fresh-water spring by settlers. During the demonstration, a soldier shot our 15-year-old cousin Mohammad in the face from close range, shattering his skull. He was rushed to the hospital and had to be medically induced into a coma. About half an hour later, still traumatized by what happened to our cousin, we found soldiers in the front yard of Ahed’s home where we were sitting and tried to get them to leave. For demanding they leave, my unarmed cousin is now facing charges for confronting an armed soldier.
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...rael-needs-to-stop-imprisoning-kids-like-her/



Their parents should take care of their children IN their village rather than use them for provocations with police on main roads. 

School. Toys. Books

Not stones, and dinners with Turkish dictators. But then again You want her to be used that way.


----------



## P F Tinmore

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...33b864-100f-11e8-a68c-e9374188170e_story.html

video in link.

OFER, West Bank — Slouching in her chair and mouthing messages to her friends and family from under a cascade of strawberry-blond curls, Ahed Tamimi in many ways appears to be an everyday teenager. 

But the tussle of television cameras and photographers that crowded in for a shot of her in the dock of a small Israeli military court in Ofer for a bail hearing last month was a reminder that she is far from it. 

Although no one was seriously hurt, the Israeli military is keen to make an example of her to deter other young Palestinians from fighting back against the Israeli occupation, her lawyer says. However, a lengthy public trial looked set to raise her profile and highlight human rights concerns surrounding the detention of minors in Israel.

“The court decided to close doors because they said they don’t think it’s good for Ahed,” said defense lawyer Gaby Lasky. “I think the decision of the court is because the court decided what is good for the court. They understand that people outside Ofer military court are interested in Ahed’s case. So the way to keep it out of everybody’s eyes is to close the doors.”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

That's what they sell to gullible Westerners ^^^^^^^^^


While this is what they show to their own audience:



Wualq wahad nakba ..ana ln al batih - wala hidha


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



I would really, really like to hear from Team Palestine what they think the solution is to a problem like Jabal al Baba.  Don't give me the cheat of just saying, "Get Jews off "Palestinian land".  Give me a concrete, specific action plan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would really, really like to hear from Team Palestine what they think the solution is to a problem like Jabal al Baba.  Don't give me the cheat of just saying, "Get Jews off "Palestinian land".  Give me a concrete, specific action plan.
Click to expand...

What is the problem other than Israel being its usual criminal self?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Battle for Justice in Palestine Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Writing identities: Zena Agha at TEDxWarwick 2014*

**


----------



## Hollie

PMW Bulletins
UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel
by Itamar Marcus
Feb. 14, 2018 

*UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel*

By Itamar Marcus
Just two weeks after British MPs met with the Head of PMW’s Legal Department Maurice Hirsch, the MPs were actively using the PMW material in Parliament to defend Israel.

On Feb. 7, 2018, Parliament held a debate initiated to criticize Israel for alleged cases in which the Israeli Military arrested and detained Palestinian children. Three MPs spoke out on behalf of Israel, explaining why the Palestinian children were involved in violence necessitating their arrests, citing PMW material.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> PMW Bulletins
> UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel
> by Itamar Marcus
> Feb. 14, 2018
> 
> *UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus
> Just two weeks after British MPs met with the Head of PMW’s Legal Department Maurice Hirsch, the MPs were actively using the PMW material in Parliament to defend Israel.
> 
> On Feb. 7, 2018, Parliament held a debate initiated to criticize Israel for alleged cases in which the Israeli Military arrested and detained Palestinian children. Three MPs spoke out on behalf of Israel, explaining why the Palestinian children were involved in violence necessitating their arrests, citing PMW material.


So they rely on an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel
> by Itamar Marcus
> Feb. 14, 2018
> 
> *UK MPs use PMW material to defend Israel*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus
> Just two weeks after British MPs met with the Head of PMW’s Legal Department Maurice Hirsch, the MPs were actively using the PMW material in Parliament to defend Israel.
> 
> On Feb. 7, 2018, Parliament held a debate initiated to criticize Israel for alleged cases in which the Israeli Military arrested and detained Palestinian children. Three MPs spoke out on behalf of Israel, explaining why the Palestinian children were involved in violence necessitating their arrests, citing PMW material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So they rely on an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are forced to retreat to your usual, goofy conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


This was the time of the Fatah coup against the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was the time of the Fatah coup against the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...


Indeed, human rights abuses are excused when islamic terrorist franchises are at war.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Super. If the charges against Ahed are upheld and she is convicted, you can blame the Joooooos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super. If the charges against Ahed are upheld and she is convicted, you can blame the Joooooos.
Click to expand...

The world knows it is a kangaroo court.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super. If the charges against Ahed are upheld and she is convicted, you can blame the Joooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The world knows it is a kangaroo court.
Click to expand...


Your world, which is consumed by conspiracy theories, is not unique among the, how shall we say, "less than clever".


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Akram - Russell Tribunal on Palestine - New York*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Susan Akram - Russell Tribunal on Palestine - New York*
> 
> **



The Russell Tribnal was a silly exercise in wasting time.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim beauty blogger refuses revlon award because of 'wonder woman' star gal gadot*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Laila al Marayati; keynotge speaker*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

*Why is the PA lying to its own children? - PMW Bulletins

Why is the PA lying to its own children?* 
*Why aren't Palestinian children taught the full truth *
*about Arab refugees in 1948?*

*Mahmoud Abbas admitted on TV that he and the Arabs of Safed left of their own accord in 1948.*

*But PA TV new children' program: 
"Mahmoud Abbas' family was forced to leave"*
By Itamar Marcus

During an interview on official PA TV in 2013, Mahmoud Abbas was asked about his family history and how they became refugees. In his spontaneous answer documented by Palestinian Media Watch, he did not say that Israel expelled the Arabs of Safed, but, just the opposite. He admitted that the Arab residents of Safed left of their own accord "in a disorderly way." 

The reason Abbas cites for the Arab unprompted exodus is also significant. He admitted that the Arabs of Hebron and Safad committed massacres (pronunciation in Arabic: Madhbaha) against their Jewish neighbors in 1929. The Arabs of Safed, Abbas explained, "were afraid that the Jews would take revenge for the massacre [of Jews] in 1929."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

A Lebanese journalist shows Hams tunnels in Gaza

Mayadeen TV Features Gaza Attack Tunnels of the Al-Mujahideen Brigades


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Finkelstein on Gaza's Right to Resist Military Occupation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noam Chomsky on Gaza and Self-Defense*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Do Palestinians ever have the right of self-defence against Israel?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dream Defenders In Support of Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cultists are people too.



Just the vile, deranged type of people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Media banned at Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi's trial*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Media banned at Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi's trial*
> 
> **




The media would turn that trial into a circus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Media banned at Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi's trial*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The media would turn that trial into a circus.
Click to expand...

Israel's trials are a circus anyway. They just don't want the world to see that.

Most trials fly under the radar, but the world is watching Ahed Tamimi.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Media banned at Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi's trial*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The media would turn that trial into a circus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's trials are a circus anyway. They just don't want the world to see that.
> 
> Most trials fly under the radar, but the world is watching Ahed Tamimi.
Click to expand...


Your frantic melodrama is a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Over 10 Million Indian Women Demand Freedom For Ahed Tamimi, Endorse BDS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Fashion Show.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Over 10 Million Indian Women Demand Freedom For Ahed Tamimi, Endorse BDS



India should look after its own house before it attacks others.  India has nearly 2000 infant children in jails with their mothers and that doesn't even touch upon their juvenile justice system.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 10 Million Indian Women Demand Freedom For Ahed Tamimi, Endorse BDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India should look after its own house before it attacks others.  India has nearly 2000 infant children in jails with their mothers and that doesn't even touch upon their juvenile justice system.
Click to expand...

You can't confuse the people and the governments. Governments all over the world are not on the same page as their people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*December 6, 2017: Dr. Ashrawi's interview with CNN's Becky Anderson*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over 10 Million Indian Women Demand Freedom For Ahed Tamimi, Endorse BDS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India should look after its own house before it attacks others.  India has nearly 2000 infant children in jails with their mothers and that doesn't even touch upon their juvenile justice system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't confuse the people and the governments. Governments all over the world are not on the same page as their people.
Click to expand...



It's the people who are protesting, yes?  They should be protesting their own government before they go after the governments of foreign nations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*World wide.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*What does Blacklisting Hezbollah mean for Palestine Ft. Catherine Shakdam*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Aid into Palestine cannot be used to increase Palestine's productive capacity. Remember, the PA is an Israeli contractor.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Dallas Palestine Coalition


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

All casualties are a shame, to anyone that has some reasonable moral standard.  But in is necessary to put causalities in perspective.  From 1920 to the Present, nearly a century, in the Arab-Israeli Conflict the Arab/Palestinians have suffered less than 100,000 killed.  In Arab/Muslim Conflict that is a fairly small number.  The Syrian Conflict, in just six years, has lost over 400,000.  In the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah/Lebanese Conflict which lasted just a month lost over a 1000 Arabs killed.  While the average number of casualties for the 98 years of the Arab-Palestinian/Israeli Conflict is a 1000/month, and the same as the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah/Lebanese Conflict, the real difference is in the level of intensity of the conflict.  The intensity of the Syrian Conflict is greater than the Arab-Israeli Conflict; but the intensity of the Arab-Palestinian/Israeli Conflict was greater than a factor of 10.


P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

While I have some sympathy, and understand the perspective and point that our friend "P F Tinmore" makes, the Arab-Palestinian casualties sustained since the beginning of the Armistice and up to the present is a direct result of a Arab-Palestinian/Arab League confrontation initiated with the Israelis.

The Arab initiation of the confrontations were based on the Article 2{4} Criteria:

•  The Arab-Palestinian/Arab League did not refrain from the THREAT in the use of Force against the territorial integrity _["to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines | A/RES/2526 (XXV)"]_ and political independence of the State of Israel.  _(You don't need a gypsy fortune teller to see that the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League confrontational act was - and continues to be - the *proximate* *cause* of the injuries suffered by the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League → in that the *casualties* were → based upon the foreseeability → a direct and probable result of the hostile act threatened or taken on the part of the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League.)_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All casualties are a shame, to anyone that has some reasonable moral standard.  But in is necessary to put causalities in perspective.  From 1920 to the Present, nearly a century, in the Arab-Israeli Conflict the Arab/Palestinians have suffered less than 100,000 killed.  In Arab/Muslim Conflict that is a fairly small number.  The Syrian Conflict, in just six years, has lost over 400,000.  In the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah/Lebanese Conflict which lasted just a month lost over a 1000 Arabs killed.  While the average number of casualties for the 98 years of the Arab-Palestinian/Israeli Conflict is a 1000/month, and the same as the 2006 Israeli-Hezbollah/Lebanese Conflict, the real difference is in the level of intensity of the conflict.  The intensity of the Syrian Conflict is greater than the Arab-Israeli Conflict; but the intensity of the Arab-Palestinian/Israeli Conflict was greater than a factor of 10.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While I have some sympathy, and understand the perspective and point that our friend "P F Tinmore" makes, the Arab-Palestinian casualties sustained since the beginning of the Armistice and up to the present is a direct result of a Arab-Palestinian/Arab League confrontation initiated with the Israelis.
> 
> The Arab initiation of the confrontations were based on the Article 2{4} Criteria:
> 
> •  The Arab-Palestinian/Arab League did not refrain from the THREAT in the use of Force against the territorial integrity _["to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines | A/RES/2526 (XXV)"]_ and political independence of the State of Israel.  _(You don't need a gypsy fortune teller to see that the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League confrontational act was - and continues to be - the *proximate* *cause* of the injuries suffered by the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League → in that the *casualties* were → based upon the foreseeability → a direct and probable result of the hostile act threatened or taken on the part of the Arab-Palestinian/Arab League.)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get all this shit, Rocco?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents *

As I’ve written in this column several times before, the “Palestinian Authority” is, at best, a misnomer. It is neither particularly Palestinian nor even remotely authoritative.

Since its inception in the mid-nineties, the PA has been made to serve the interests of the Israeli occupier. Indeed, it was entirely designed with this purpose in mind. It allows Israel to outsource key elements of the occupation to local Palestinian subcontractors.

Preventing Palestinian autonomy in the West Bank has been a key goal of the Israeli occupation since its imposition by force in 1948. It’s for this reason that, prior to the foundation of the state, the Zionist movement colluded with the King of Jordan to ensure that the Palestinian state envisaged in the 1947 UN partition plan would never come to exist.

The PA is not really Palestinian, because it’s entire raison d’etre is to prop up Israeli occupation. And it’s hardly an authority, because PA “security forces” have standing orders to put down their weapons or withdraw from an area any time Israeli soldiers invade.

We also know that, for years, the PA has been collaborating with the US empire and its schemes in the region – of which Israel forms a key plank. For example, the American General Keith Dayton more than a decade ago
oversaw a new training regime for PA forces
to impose closer collaboration with Israeli occupation troops.

Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents *
> 
> As I’ve written in this column several times before, the “Palestinian Authority” is, at best, a misnomer. It is neither particularly Palestinian nor even remotely authoritative.
> 
> Since its inception in the mid-nineties, the PA has been made to serve the interests of the Israeli occupier. Indeed, it was entirely designed with this purpose in mind. It allows Israel to outsource key elements of the occupation to local Palestinian subcontractors.
> 
> Preventing Palestinian autonomy in the West Bank has been a key goal of the Israeli occupation since its imposition by force in 1948. It’s for this reason that, prior to the foundation of the state, the Zionist movement colluded with the King of Jordan to ensure that the Palestinian state envisaged in the 1947 UN partition plan would never come to exist.
> 
> The PA is not really Palestinian, because it’s entire raison d’etre is to prop up Israeli occupation. And it’s hardly an authority, because PA “security forces” have standing orders to put down their weapons or withdraw from an area any time Israeli soldiers invade.
> 
> We also know that, for years, the PA has been collaborating with the US empire and its schemes in the region – of which Israel forms a key plank. For example, the American General Keith Dayton more than a decade ago
> oversaw a new training regime for PA forces
> to impose closer collaboration with Israeli occupation troops.
> 
> Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents



Oh my. You are an easy mark for conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents *
> 
> As I’ve written in this column several times before, the “Palestinian Authority” is, at best, a misnomer. It is neither particularly Palestinian nor even remotely authoritative.
> 
> Since its inception in the mid-nineties, the PA has been made to serve the interests of the Israeli occupier. Indeed, it was entirely designed with this purpose in mind. It allows Israel to outsource key elements of the occupation to local Palestinian subcontractors.
> 
> Preventing Palestinian autonomy in the West Bank has been a key goal of the Israeli occupation since its imposition by force in 1948. It’s for this reason that, prior to the foundation of the state, the Zionist movement colluded with the King of Jordan to ensure that the Palestinian state envisaged in the 1947 UN partition plan would never come to exist.
> 
> The PA is not really Palestinian, because it’s entire raison d’etre is to prop up Israeli occupation. And it’s hardly an authority, because PA “security forces” have standing orders to put down their weapons or withdraw from an area any time Israeli soldiers invade.
> 
> We also know that, for years, the PA has been collaborating with the US empire and its schemes in the region – of which Israel forms a key plank. For example, the American General Keith Dayton more than a decade ago
> oversaw a new training regime for PA forces
> to impose closer collaboration with Israeli occupation troops.
> 
> Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. You are an easy mark for conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents *
> 
> As I’ve written in this column several times before, the “Palestinian Authority” is, at best, a misnomer. It is neither particularly Palestinian nor even remotely authoritative.
> 
> Since its inception in the mid-nineties, the PA has been made to serve the interests of the Israeli occupier. Indeed, it was entirely designed with this purpose in mind. It allows Israel to outsource key elements of the occupation to local Palestinian subcontractors.
> 
> Preventing Palestinian autonomy in the West Bank has been a key goal of the Israeli occupation since its imposition by force in 1948. It’s for this reason that, prior to the foundation of the state, the Zionist movement colluded with the King of Jordan to ensure that the Palestinian state envisaged in the 1947 UN partition plan would never come to exist.
> 
> The PA is not really Palestinian, because it’s entire raison d’etre is to prop up Israeli occupation. And it’s hardly an authority, because PA “security forces” have standing orders to put down their weapons or withdraw from an area any time Israeli soldiers invade.
> 
> We also know that, for years, the PA has been collaborating with the US empire and its schemes in the region – of which Israel forms a key plank. For example, the American General Keith Dayton more than a decade ago
> oversaw a new training regime for PA forces
> to impose closer collaboration with Israeli occupation troops.
> 
> Palestinian Authority collaborated with CIA to spy on Palestinian dissidents
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my. You are an easy mark for conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


I understand why you’re reduced to cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Lastamender

*Palestinian Diplomat: 'We Are Very Proud That We Are Stone Throwers*


----------



## ArmenianTraveler

This is an upcoming conference about Jerusalem.

the 6th International Conference


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lastamender said:


> *Palestinian Diplomat: 'We Are Very Proud That We Are Stone Throwers*


Time honored resistance to illegal occupation.


----------



## Hollie

ArmenianTraveler said:


> This is an upcoming conference about Jerusalem.
> 
> the 6th International Conference



From the “About” section referencing the supplied link:

ABOUT US
Who We Are?

“The International Institute of Independent Thinkers and Artists (New Horizon) is a Tehran-based NGO....”


Yes. The retrograde Shiite mullahs have the best interests of the retrograde Sunni Islamics as their first priority, at least when these slouches from the Dark Ages aren’t slaughtering each other.


----------



## ArmenianTraveler

Hollie said:


> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an upcoming conference about Jerusalem.
> 
> the 6th International Conference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the “About” section referencing the supplied link:
> 
> ABOUT US
> Who We Are?
> 
> “The International Institute of Independent Thinkers and Artists (New Horizon) is a Tehran-based NGO....”
> 
> 
> Yes. The retrograde Shiite mullahs have the best interests of the retrograde Sunni Islamics as their first priority, at least when these slouches from the Dark Ages aren’t slaughtering each other.
Click to expand...




Have you ever heard of the Thirty Years War?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

ArmenianTraveler said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an upcoming conference about Jerusalem.
> 
> the 6th International Conference
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the “About” section referencing the supplied link:
> 
> ABOUT US
> Who We Are?
> 
> “The International Institute of Independent Thinkers and Artists (New Horizon) is a Tehran-based NGO....”
> 
> 
> Yes. The retrograde Shiite mullahs have the best interests of the retrograde Sunni Islamics as their first priority, at least when these slouches from the Dark Ages aren’t slaughtering each other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard of the Thirty Years War?
Click to expand...


Have you ever heard of the 1400 year long blood feud that causes Sunni and Shiite retrogrades to slaughter each other by attacking each other’s mosques?


----------



## ArmenianTraveler

Hollie said:


>





Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Islamist Disposable Children Foundation.


----------



## ArmenianTraveler

Hollie said:


> Arab-Islamist Disposable Children Foundation.




PressTV-Netanyahu’s ‘cartoonish circus’ in Munich


----------



## P F Tinmore

Cool.


----------



## Hollie

PressTV, aka MNN, the _Mullah News Network. 

All the islamo-news to placate the vacant-minded Islamists. _


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Cool.



Typically flailing your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists. 

It’s all Islamic terrorist fun and games until the in-coming starts.


Cool.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ArmenianTraveler said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
Click to expand...



Where is the Foundation for Taylor Force, an American marine killed by Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the Foundation for Taylor Force, an American marine killed by Palestinians?
Click to expand...

Why was he in Israel's war zone?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically flailing your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It’s all Islamic terrorist fun and games until the in-coming starts.
> 
> 
> Cool.
Click to expand...

Israel blowing up civilians with its mooched weapons.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically flailing your Pom Poms for Islamic terrorists.
> 
> It’s all Islamic terrorist fun and games until the in-coming starts.
> 
> 
> Cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel blowing up civilians with its mooched weapons.
Click to expand...


Israel putting the “had” in Islamist terrorist gee-had.


----------



## Hossfly

ArmenianTraveler said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
Click to expand...

What, pray tell, is a Rachel Corrie?


----------



## ArmenianTraveler

Hossfly said:


> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What, pray tell, is a Rachel Corrie?
Click to expand...



Did you read the page?


----------



## Hollie

ArmenianTraveler said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What, pray tell, is a Rachel Corrie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the page?
Click to expand...


The page describes a young lady who made any number of poorly considered decisions.


----------



## Hossfly

ArmenianTraveler said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ArmenianTraveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachel Corrie | Rachel Corrie Foundation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What, pray tell, is a Rachel Corrie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the page?
Click to expand...


No, she was a terrorist lover.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Friends of Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Friends of Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Friends of islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Friends of Islamic terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Friends of Islamic Terrorism


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

FESTIVAL WOMAD en CHILE SOLIDARIDAD con Ahed Tamimi y los 300 niños palestinos secuestrados en cárceles del Estado Genocida I srael


----------



## P F Tinmore

Detroit


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cult Fashion Show


----------



## P F Tinmore

London


----------



## P F Tinmore

Albany


----------



## Hollie

*Disposable Children of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.



Palestinian UN diplomat caught on tape glorifying children's rock throwing - PMW Bulletins

Palestinian UN diplomat caught on tape glorifying children's rock throwing:*


*"We are very proud that we are stone throwers"*
*"We are very proud to do that"*
*"We will not stop to learn (sic, teach) our kids"*

By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Click to read on our website

A recording surfaced last week of a Palestinian diplomat, Abdallah Abushawesh, member of the Palestinian Authority delegation to the UN, telling a group of students from Canada: "We are very clever and very expert at throwing the stones," as well as: "We are very proud that we are stone throwers. I'm one of them." Following is a transcript of the recording: 

"We are very clever and very expert at throwing the stones. We are very proud to do that. We will not stop to learn our kids. We are very proud to say that every catching a Palestinian throwing a stone we go to the jail. We are very proud that we are stone throwers. I'm one of them. Now I became a little bit older, but I still resist in the name of my kids."
[Ynet, Feb. 13, 2018]

It does not come as a surprise that a Palestinian UN diplomat openly praises rock throwing. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the PA and Fatah openly encourage rock throwing. For example, a poem in a Palestinian youth magazine partially funded by the PA teaches children that throwing rocks at Jews is something mandated by Muhammad, Islam's Prophet.





The following lines were part of the poem printed in the magazine's October 2017 issue together with the image above of a kid throwing rocks:

"O children of my country, sing to the occupied homeland so it will be liberated...
*Sing by the order of Prophet [Muhammad] that we carry a rock*
*that we will throw at the people of the Gharqad [tree]*"
[_Zayzafuna_, October 2017]

That Jews are the intended target is clear from the reference to the Gharqad tree - "the tree of the Jews." According to Muslim tradition Jews will try to hide behind the Gharqad tree when the Muslims come to kill them on Judgment Day.

Abbas' Fatah Movement published a guide to rock throwing for kids on its Twitter account last December:


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Disposable Children of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian UN diplomat caught on tape glorifying children's rock throwing - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Palestinian UN diplomat caught on tape glorifying children's rock throwing:*
> 
> 
> *"We are very proud that we are stone throwers"
> "We are very proud to do that"
> "We will not stop to learn (sic, teach) our kids"*
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Click to read on our website
> 
> A recording surfaced last week of a Palestinian diplomat, Abdallah Abushawesh, member of the Palestinian Authority delegation to the UN, telling a group of students from Canada: "We are very clever and very expert at throwing the stones," as well as: "We are very proud that we are stone throwers. I'm one of them." Following is a transcript of the recording:
> 
> "We are very clever and very expert at throwing the stones. We are very proud to do that. We will not stop to learn our kids. We are very proud to say that every catching a Palestinian throwing a stone we go to the jail. We are very proud that we are stone throwers. I'm one of them. Now I became a little bit older, but I still resist in the name of my kids."
> [Ynet, Feb. 13, 2018]
> 
> It does not come as a surprise that a Palestinian UN diplomat openly praises rock throwing. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the PA and Fatah openly encourage rock throwing. For example, a poem in a Palestinian youth magazine partially funded by the PA teaches children that throwing rocks at Jews is something mandated by Muhammad, Islam's Prophet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following lines were part of the poem printed in the magazine's October 2017 issue together with the image above of a kid throwing rocks:
> 
> "O children of my country, sing to the occupied homeland so it will be liberated...
> *Sing by the order of Prophet [Muhammad] that we carry a rock
> that we will throw at the people of the Gharqad [tree]*"
> [_Zayzafuna_, October 2017]
> 
> That Jews are the intended target is clear from the reference to the Gharqad tree - "the tree of the Jews." According to Muslim tradition Jews will try to hide behind the Gharqad tree when the Muslims come to kill them on Judgment Day.
> 
> Abbas' Fatah Movement published a guide to rock throwing for kids on its Twitter account last December:


Israel bombs homes killing entire families. Then they whine about a few kids throwing rocks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi Court Case: "It''s not just Tamimi's trial, it's the trial of occupation"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Free Children from the Death Cult.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  et al,

As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?   Are the Arab Palestinians attempting to apply a different standard than is applied elsewhere in the Region?  Well, "From 2005 through 2008, five countries - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and Yemen -were known to have executed juvenile offenders." (Human Rights Watch)(HRW)  YES:  it would seem that these countries all have something in common.

✪  SAUDI ARABIA:  Committee on the Rights of the Child’s 73rd Pre-Sessional Working Group in February 2016. Submitted by the Child Rights International Network (CRIN) October 2015.​
Since the HRW comment mentioned Iran first, and since there is a continuing hostile relationship between the Iran 

13.  Regardless of the circumstances and nature of the crime, the use of the death penalty for crimes committed by persons under 18 years of age is explicitly prohibited by international human rights law, especially under article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and article 37 of the Convention on the Rights of Child. While the Islamic Republic of Iran is a State party to both those instruments, *juvenile executions continue to occur regularly*. No official data on children in conflict with the law, in particular those at risk of execution, are publicly available. Nonetheless, as at 2014, there were reportedly 160 juveniles at risk of execution  (see A/HRC/28/26 , para. 14) and at least 13 juvenile offenders were reportedly executed in 2014 and 1in 2015 (see A/HRC/28/70, para.15).  In commenting on the present report, the authorities stated that most of those executed were over 18 years of age when they committed the offences.​
Now, the constant role playing of the victim, on the part of the Arab Palestinians, merely trying to stir-up trouble and incite violence is what it is.  But don't think for a moment that the aggressor nations and the Arab Palestinians (all of which are predominately Muslim in cultural morals) hold the high ground.  They simply do not.  Just looking at the picture of Ahed Tamimi, you can tell she is very much enjoying the celebrity status she has garnered.  But, she is still a juvenile delinquent and is being handled accordingly. 

Ask the question:  If a 14 year old assaulted a Law Enforcement / Security Official in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Egypt* ⇒ *what would have happened? 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?   Are the Arab Palestinians attempting to apply a different standard than is applied elsewhere in the Region?  Well, "From 2005 through 2008, five countries - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and Yemen -were known to have executed juvenile offenders." (Human Rights Watch)(HRW)  YES:  it would seem that these countries all have something in common.
> 
> ✪  SAUDI ARABIA:  Committee on the Rights of the Child’s 73rd Pre-Sessional Working Group in February 2016. Submitted by the Child Rights International Network (CRIN) October 2015.​
> Since the HRW comment mentioned Iran first, and since there is a continuing hostile relationship between the Iran
> 
> 13.  Regardless of the circumstances and nature of the crime, the use of the death penalty for crimes committed by persons under 18 years of age is explicitly prohibited by international human rights law, especially under article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and article 37 of the Convention on the Rights of Child. While the Islamic Republic of Iran is a State party to both those instruments, *juvenile executions continue to occur regularly*. No official data on children in conflict with the law, in particular those at risk of execution, are publicly available. Nonetheless, as at 2014, there were reportedly 160 juveniles at risk of execution  (see A/HRC/28/26 , para. 14) and at least 13 juvenile offenders were reportedly executed in 2014 and 1in 2015 (see A/HRC/28/70, para.15).  In commenting on the present report, the authorities stated that most of those executed were over 18 years of age when they committed the offences.​
> Now, the constant role playing of the victim, on the part of the Arab Palestinians, merely trying to stir-up trouble and incite violence is what it is.  But don't think for a moment that the aggressor nations and the Arab Palestinians (all of which are predominately Muslim in cultural morals) hold the high ground.  They simply do not.  Just looking at the picture of Ahed Tamimi, you can tell she is very much enjoying the celebrity status she has garnered.  But, she is still a juvenile delinquent and is being handled accordingly.
> 
> Ask the question:  If a 14 year old assaulted a Law Enforcement / Security Official in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Egypt* ⇒ *what would have happened?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?


Good question.

Are there laws against attacking foreign troops in those countries?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?   Are the Arab Palestinians attempting to apply a different standard than is applied elsewhere in the Region?  Well, "From 2005 through 2008, five countries - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and Yemen -were known to have executed juvenile offenders." (Human Rights Watch)(HRW)  YES:  it would seem that these countries all have something in common.
> 
> ✪  SAUDI ARABIA:  Committee on the Rights of the Child’s 73rd Pre-Sessional Working Group in February 2016. Submitted by the Child Rights International Network (CRIN) October 2015.​
> Since the HRW comment mentioned Iran first, and since there is a continuing hostile relationship between the Iran
> 
> 13.  Regardless of the circumstances and nature of the crime, the use of the death penalty for crimes committed by persons under 18 years of age is explicitly prohibited by international human rights law, especially under article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and article 37 of the Convention on the Rights of Child. While the Islamic Republic of Iran is a State party to both those instruments, *juvenile executions continue to occur regularly*. No official data on children in conflict with the law, in particular those at risk of execution, are publicly available. Nonetheless, as at 2014, there were reportedly 160 juveniles at risk of execution  (see A/HRC/28/26 , para. 14) and at least 13 juvenile offenders were reportedly executed in 2014 and 1in 2015 (see A/HRC/28/70, para.15).  In commenting on the present report, the authorities stated that most of those executed were over 18 years of age when they committed the offences.​
> Now, the constant role playing of the victim, on the part of the Arab Palestinians, merely trying to stir-up trouble and incite violence is what it is.  But don't think for a moment that the aggressor nations and the Arab Palestinians (all of which are predominately Muslim in cultural morals) hold the high ground.  They simply do not.  Just looking at the picture of Ahed Tamimi, you can tell she is very much enjoying the celebrity status she has garnered.  But, she is still a juvenile delinquent and is being handled accordingly.
> 
> Ask the question:  If a 14 year old assaulted a Law Enforcement / Security Official in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Egypt* ⇒ *what would have happened?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Are there laws against attacking foreign troops in those countries?
Click to expand...


There is no "country of Pal'istan", therefore, your attempt at analogy crashes to the ground in flames. 

Here's a thought: should there be a "country of Pal'istan" in the future, an attack aimed at Israel from that country would be an act of war and Israel would have every right to respond to that act of war without the limitations on retaliatory measures currently observed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...snesLrayURD_cXrtneT1Q5ZH5AVI-sFj4O3SHAwWjPtnw


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?   Are the Arab Palestinians attempting to apply a different standard than is applied elsewhere in the Region?  Well, "From 2005 through 2008, five countries - Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, and Yemen -were known to have executed juvenile offenders." (Human Rights Watch)(HRW)  YES:  it would seem that these countries all have something in common.
> 
> ✪  SAUDI ARABIA:  Committee on the Rights of the Child’s 73rd Pre-Sessional Working Group in February 2016. Submitted by the Child Rights International Network (CRIN) October 2015.​
> Since the HRW comment mentioned Iran first, and since there is a continuing hostile relationship between the Iran
> 
> 13.  Regardless of the circumstances and nature of the crime, the use of the death penalty for crimes committed by persons under 18 years of age is explicitly prohibited by international human rights law, especially under article 6 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and article 37 of the Convention on the Rights of Child. While the Islamic Republic of Iran is a State party to both those instruments, *juvenile executions continue to occur regularly*. No official data on children in conflict with the law, in particular those at risk of execution, are publicly available. Nonetheless, as at 2014, there were reportedly 160 juveniles at risk of execution  (see A/HRC/28/26 , para. 14) and at least 13 juvenile offenders were reportedly executed in 2014 and 1in 2015 (see A/HRC/28/70, para.15).  In commenting on the present report, the authorities stated that most of those executed were over 18 years of age when they committed the offences.​
> Now, the constant role playing of the victim, on the part of the Arab Palestinians, merely trying to stir-up trouble and incite violence is what it is.  But don't think for a moment that the aggressor nations and the Arab Palestinians (all of which are predominately Muslim in cultural morals) hold the high ground.  They simply do not.  Just looking at the picture of Ahed Tamimi, you can tell she is very much enjoying the celebrity status she has garnered.  But, she is still a juvenile delinquent and is being handled accordingly.
> 
> Ask the question:  If a 14 year old assaulted a Law Enforcement / Security Official in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, or Egypt* ⇒ *what would have happened?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As we make this juvenile delinquent a celebrity, I often wonder if the Customary Law (how other Muslim countries) handle and process the detention and prosecution of child criminals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Are there laws against attacking foreign troops in those countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no "country of Pal'istan", therefore, your attempt at analogy crashes to the ground in flames.
> 
> Here's a thought: should there be a "country of Pal'istan" in the future, an attack aimed at Israel from that country would be an act of war and Israel would have every right to respond to that act of war without the limitations on retaliatory measures currently observed.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  et al,

Well, there is no such thing here.

You know as well as everyone else on the board, the the international law (universally) stipulates that:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty

ARTICLE 68 [ Link ] 


 Protected persons who commit an offence which is _*solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life*_ or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment  is proportionate to the offence committed. _*Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty.*_ The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ]   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
 The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ]  and Article 65 [ Link ]  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
 The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
 In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Good question.
> 
> Are there laws against attacking foreign troops in those countries?


*(COMMENT)*

Don't pull the old "we are allowed to commit crimes" routine.  You're bringing tears to my eyes.  Either you are under occupation law - or - domestic law.  In either case _(even in Muslim Countries)_ an assault on a Law Enforcement Officer - Security Officer, is a punishable offense.

Anyone, now matter who it is, that has a fiduciary responsibility and internationally recognized duty to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, is protected against abuse by criminal parties under occupation.  The fact that the Arab Palestinians "don't get it" in an example of why they have not reached a point on sovereignty.  

Just like the IHL says:  _*Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty.*_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Well, there is no such thing here.
> 
> You know as well as everyone else on the board, the the international law (universally) stipulates that:
> 
> Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
> Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty
> 
> ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]
> 
> 
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is _*solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life*_ or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment  is proportionate to the offence committed. _*Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty.*_ The courts provided for under Article 66 [ Link ]   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ]  and Article 65 [ Link ]  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question.
> 
> Are there laws against attacking foreign troops in those countries?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Don't pull the old "we are allowed to commit crimes" routine.  You're bringing tears to my eyes.  Either you are under occupation law - or - domestic law.  In either case _(even in Muslim Countries)_ an assault on a Law Enforcement Officer - Security Officer, is a punishable offense.
> 
> Anyone, now matter who it is, that has a fiduciary responsibility and internationally recognized duty to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, is protected against abuse by criminal parties under occupation.  The fact that the Arab Palestinians "don't get it" in an example of why they have not reached a point on sovereignty.
> 
> Just like the IHL says:  _*Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty.*_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where does it say that self defense and resisting occupation is illegal?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Cowardly Moslem men use children to create a confrontation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Cowardly Moslem men use children to create a confrontation.


Poor babies. Tissue?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no law pertaining to self-defense and resisting occupation; in the context of Ahed Tamimi.  The International law essentially says that you cannot assault the Occupation Force without facing the consequence; that of prosecution.

That would be Article 68



P F Tinmore said:


> Where does it say that self defense and resisting occupation is illegal?


*(COMMENT)*

The territory was occupied prior to the sole representatives of the West Bank Palestinians [the Palestine Liberation Organization {PLO)], Declared a Declaration of Independence.  In fact, the West Bank was abandon by the Jordanians prior before the Declared a Declaration of Independence left in the hands of the Israeli Occupation.

The Arab Palestinians have yet to establish any kind of territorial control or sovereignty in any of the territory.

In fact, the Arab Palestinians have not established any type of government that covers the West Bank and Gaza Strip in its entirety.

People like Ahed Tamimi are just tools (not very good ones at that) to incite further violence.

The Arab Palestinians were never invaded by the Israelis.  The Israelis occupied Sovereign Jordanian Territory; as established through the "Right of Se-Determination."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no law pertaining to self-defense and resisting occupation; in the context of Ahed Tamimi.  The International law essentially says that you cannot assault the Occupation Force without facing the consequence; that of prosecution.
> 
> That would be Article 68
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that self defense and resisting occupation is illegal?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The territory was occupied prior to the sole representatives of the West Bank Palestinians [the Palestine Liberation Organization {PLO)], Declared a Declaration of Independence.  In fact, the West Bank was abandon by the Jordanians prior before the Declared a Declaration of Independence left in the hands of the Israeli Occupation.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have yet to establish any kind of territorial control or sovereignty in any of the territory.
> 
> In fact, the Arab Palestinians have not established any type of government that covers the West Bank and Gaza Strip in its entirety.
> 
> People like Ahed Tamimi are just tools (not very good ones at that) to incite further violence.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were never invaded by the Israelis.  The Israelis occupied Sovereign Jordanian Territory; as established through the "Right of Se-Determination."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Full of crap, as usual. Invading foreign troops.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cowardly Moslem men use children to create a confrontation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor babies. Tissue?
Click to expand...


Now that’s funny. An impotent wannabe who pushes teenage girls into dangerous situations. More of the attitudes that defines Moslems and how they despise women and especially young girls.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian youth demonstrate in Nablus, demanding peace and calling for non-violent opposition to the occupation. *





Palestinian youth in Nablus: ‘Unite and stop with the division’ | +972 Magazine


----------



## Hollie

Peaceful Islamic terrorist protests.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian youth demonstrate in Nablus, demanding peace and calling for non-violent opposition to the occupation. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian youth in Nablus: ‘Unite and stop with the division’ | +972 Magazine




It says in the article, that you posted, that these students want an independent society that is democratic, tolerant and secular.  Could that be possible, especially under the Hamas thugs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian youth demonstrate in Nablus, demanding peace and calling for non-violent opposition to the occupation. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian youth in Nablus: ‘Unite and stop with the division’ | +972 Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says in the article, that you posted, that these students want an independent society that is democratic, tolerant and secular.  Could that be possible, especially under the Hamas thugs?
Click to expand...

You watch too much propaganda.

The American International School in Gaza


----------



## Hollie

The Islamist Death Cult has lovely schools.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Understanding Islamic Terrorists in Gaza’istan


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Exploiting young girls. 

Following in the way of your warlord “prophet”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*First female-led TV station launched in Gaza*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *First female-led TV station launched in Gaza*



One always expects freedom of the press in theocratic totalitarian mini-caliphates.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The First All-Female Radio Station In Gaza Calls For Equality*

**


----------



## Hollie

Retrograde islamic societies are always furthering of women, as long as they are subservient and know their place.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?

Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?

Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?



I never bother to watch tinmore's videos. They're so often Press TV or Pallywood Studios produced nonsense.

The videos I post, well, I go as far as read the title. Largely, I'm just having a bit of fun at tinmore's expense. I'll admit to getting a laugh at his frantic, youtube cut and paste gee-had when he perceives a slight to his islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The First All-Female Radio Station In Gaza Calls For Equality



*Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas*
*Authorities in Gaza have blocked the launch of a women's television channel there, just before it was due to go on air.
*





Officials from the Palestinian militant Islamist group Hamas, which dominates the territory, said Taif TV had not obtained the necessary licenses.
However the channel said it had met all the legal requirements.
Civil liberties groups have long criticized Hamas for what they say is a poor record on women's rights in Gaza.

The Palestinian independent Maan news agency said Hamas had on Sunday banned a launch party for the channel, after which it was meant to begin broadcasting.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?


Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.
Click to expand...


You poor angry wannabe. The majority of the PMW and Memri videos are current and reference directly to fatah or Hamas facebook pages or propaganda sites. 

Like this one, for instance:

Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah honors terrorist who led murder of Rabbi Raziel Shevach:*


*"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"*

*3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar
*
*"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts*

*PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"*
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

One of the latest new Palestinian "heroes" is "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar - the terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting on Jan. 9, 2018, near Havat Gilad in the Nablus area. 

Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Abbas' Fatah Movement has honored him several times, and continues to do so as seen in additional Facebook posts below.

Palestinians have also named sports tournaments after the terrorist. A futsal championship was held in the Nablus area:

"*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Futsal Championship"
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 12, 2018]*

In Gaza too, terrorist Jarrar is a hero with two sports tournaments having already been named after him:

"*The Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar Table Tennis Cup*" (to be held later this month)

"*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Handball Cup" (date to be announced)
[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 19, 2018]*

The following are 10 Fatah posts on Facebook glorifying terrorist Jarrar:

The image below shows a doctored picture of terrorist Ahmed Nasr Jarrar, in which a picture of his head has been put on the body of a video game character. The image shows terrorist Jarrar in a military uniform with a holstered handgun, and a Palestinian flag has been added as an arm badge to the video game character's body. In the upper left corner appears the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas.



Note the bolded text.

Enjoy the show,  Chuckles.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The First All-Female Radio Station In Gaza Calls For Equality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas*
> *Authorities in Gaza have blocked the launch of a women's television channel there, just before it was due to go on air.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officials from the Palestinian militant Islamist group Hamas, which dominates the territory, said Taif TV had not obtained the necessary licenses.
> However the channel said it had met all the legal requirements.
> Civil liberties groups have long criticized Hamas for what they say is a poor record on women's rights in Gaza.
> 
> The Palestinian independent Maan news agency said Hamas had on Sunday banned a launch party for the channel, after which it was meant to begin broadcasting.
Click to expand...


So what do You think P F Tinmore ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor angry wannabe. The majority of the PMW and Memri videos are current and reference directly to fatah or Hamas facebook pages or propaganda sites.
> 
> Like this one, for instance:
> 
> Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah honors terrorist who led murder of Rabbi Raziel Shevach:*
> 
> 
> *"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"*
> 
> *3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar
> *
> *"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts*
> 
> *PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"*
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the latest new Palestinian "heroes" is "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar - the terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting on Jan. 9, 2018, near Havat Gilad in the Nablus area.
> 
> Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Abbas' Fatah Movement has honored him several times, and continues to do so as seen in additional Facebook posts below.
> 
> Palestinians have also named sports tournaments after the terrorist. A futsal championship was held in the Nablus area:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Futsal Championship"
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 12, 2018]*
> 
> In Gaza too, terrorist Jarrar is a hero with two sports tournaments having already been named after him:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar Table Tennis Cup*" (to be held later this month)
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Handball Cup" (date to be announced)
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 19, 2018]*
> 
> The following are 10 Fatah posts on Facebook glorifying terrorist Jarrar:
> 
> The image below shows a doctored picture of terrorist Ahmed Nasr Jarrar, in which a picture of his head has been put on the body of a video game character. The image shows terrorist Jarrar in a military uniform with a holstered handgun, and a Palestinian flag has been added as an arm badge to the video game character's body. In the upper left corner appears the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the bolded text.
> 
> Enjoy the show,  Chuckles.
Click to expand...

WOW, so many terrorist cards!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor angry wannabe. The majority of the PMW and Memri videos are current and reference directly to fatah or Hamas facebook pages or propaganda sites.
> 
> Like this one, for instance:
> 
> Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah honors terrorist who led murder of Rabbi Raziel Shevach:*
> 
> 
> *"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"*
> 
> *3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar
> *
> *"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts*
> 
> *PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"*
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the latest new Palestinian "heroes" is "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar - the terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting on Jan. 9, 2018, near Havat Gilad in the Nablus area.
> 
> Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Abbas' Fatah Movement has honored him several times, and continues to do so as seen in additional Facebook posts below.
> 
> Palestinians have also named sports tournaments after the terrorist. A futsal championship was held in the Nablus area:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Futsal Championship"
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 12, 2018]*
> 
> In Gaza too, terrorist Jarrar is a hero with two sports tournaments having already been named after him:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar Table Tennis Cup*" (to be held later this month)
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Handball Cup" (date to be announced)
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 19, 2018]*
> 
> The following are 10 Fatah posts on Facebook glorifying terrorist Jarrar:
> 
> The image below shows a doctored picture of terrorist Ahmed Nasr Jarrar, in which a picture of his head has been put on the body of a video game character. The image shows terrorist Jarrar in a military uniform with a holstered handgun, and a Palestinian flag has been added as an arm badge to the video game character's body. In the upper left corner appears the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the bolded text.
> 
> Enjoy the show,  Chuckles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards!
Click to expand...


You prefer "martyrs"?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor angry wannabe. The majority of the PMW and Memri videos are current and reference directly to fatah or Hamas facebook pages or propaganda sites.
> 
> Like this one, for instance:
> 
> Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah honors terrorist who led murder of Rabbi Raziel Shevach:*
> 
> 
> *"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"*
> 
> *3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar
> *
> *"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts*
> 
> *PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"*
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the latest new Palestinian "heroes" is "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar - the terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting on Jan. 9, 2018, near Havat Gilad in the Nablus area.
> 
> Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Abbas' Fatah Movement has honored him several times, and continues to do so as seen in additional Facebook posts below.
> 
> Palestinians have also named sports tournaments after the terrorist. A futsal championship was held in the Nablus area:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Futsal Championship"
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 12, 2018]*
> 
> In Gaza too, terrorist Jarrar is a hero with two sports tournaments having already been named after him:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar Table Tennis Cup*" (to be held later this month)
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Handball Cup" (date to be announced)
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 19, 2018]*
> 
> The following are 10 Fatah posts on Facebook glorifying terrorist Jarrar:
> 
> The image below shows a doctored picture of terrorist Ahmed Nasr Jarrar, in which a picture of his head has been put on the body of a video game character. The image shows terrorist Jarrar in a military uniform with a holstered handgun, and a Palestinian flag has been added as an arm badge to the video game character's body. In the upper left corner appears the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the bolded text.
> 
> Enjoy the show,  Chuckles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards!
Click to expand...


I knew you would be forced to retreat to your usual cut and paste slogans. 

I understand you find it galling that your Islamic terrorist heroes are exposed as being lowlifes and misfits. It’s quite sad that you still define them as heroes. 

What does that say about you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore, do you ever watch Hollie's videos?
> 
> Hollie, do you ever watch Tinmore's videos?
> 
> Does anyone else watch these videos or are they being posted for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure I do. I am not one sided. Most of her posts are old MEMRI and PMW videos. Both are Israeli Propaganda organizations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You poor angry wannabe. The majority of the PMW and Memri videos are current and reference directly to fatah or Hamas facebook pages or propaganda sites.
> 
> Like this one, for instance:
> 
> Fatah honors terrorist who led murder: “Martyr who sat on shoulders of Heaven and smiled” - PMW Bulletins
> 
> *Fatah honors terrorist who led murder of Rabbi Raziel Shevach:*
> 
> 
> *"A Martyr who sat on the shoulders of Heaven and smiled"*
> 
> *3 sports tournaments have been named after terrorist Jarrar
> *
> *"He destabilized Israel's security and terrified it" - Fatah glorified terrorist in numerous Facebook posts*
> 
> *PFLP about terrorist: "Jarrar became a story of heroism and a shining chapter in our national history... his soul will continue to be a beacon"*
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> One of the latest new Palestinian "heroes" is "Martyr" Ahmed Nasr Jarrar - the terrorist who led the terror cell that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach, a father of six, in a drive-by shooting on Jan. 9, 2018, near Havat Gilad in the Nablus area.
> 
> Terrorist Jarrar was shot and killed during an exchange of gunfire with Israeli soldiers while resisting arrest near Jenin on Feb. 6, 2018. Palestinian Media Watch has documented that Abbas' Fatah Movement has honored him several times, and continues to do so as seen in additional Facebook posts below.
> 
> Palestinians have also named sports tournaments after the terrorist. A futsal championship was held in the Nablus area:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Futsal Championship"
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 12, 2018]*
> 
> In Gaza too, terrorist Jarrar is a hero with two sports tournaments having already been named after him:
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Nasr Jarrar Table Tennis Cup*" (to be held later this month)
> 
> "*The Martyr Ahmed Jarrar Handball Cup" (date to be announced)
> [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 19, 2018]*
> 
> The following are 10 Fatah posts on Facebook glorifying terrorist Jarrar:
> 
> The image below shows a doctored picture of terrorist Ahmed Nasr Jarrar, in which a picture of his head has been put on the body of a video game character. The image shows terrorist Jarrar in a military uniform with a holstered handgun, and a Palestinian flag has been added as an arm badge to the video game character's body. In the upper left corner appears the Fatah logo that includes a grenade, crossed rifles, and the PA map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Note the bolded text.
> 
> Enjoy the show,  Chuckles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You prefer "martyrs"?
Click to expand...

Israel needs to pimp its terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I am not one sided.


----------



## admonit

P F Tinmore said:


> I am not one sided.


Good joke.


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian peace negotiator tells US ambassador to UN Nikki Haley to 'shut up' over Abbas criticism*

She added: "I ask here today, where is the Palestinian King Hussein? Where is the Palestinian Anwar Sadat? If President Abbas demonstrates he can be that type of leader, we would welcome it. His recent actions demonstrate the total opposite.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas is furious at the law against them in Congress: Trump is eliminating the Palestinian problem*

Last month, the US State Department announced the introduction of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to the list of terrorism and sanctions against him.

To impose sanctions against Hamas for violating universally applicable international laws of armed conflict by intentionally using civilians and civilian property to shield military objectives from lawful attack, and for other purposes. (H.R. 3542)


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Hamas is furious at the law against them in Congress: Trump is eliminating the Palestinian problem*
> 
> Last month, the US State Department announced the introduction of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to the list of terrorism and sanctions against him.
> 
> To impose sanctions against Hamas for violating universally applicable international laws of armed conflict by intentionally using civilians and civilian property to shield military objectives from lawful attack, and for other purposes. (H.R. 3542)


Oh jeese, more third grade name calling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The First All-Female Radio Station In Gaza Calls For Equality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas*
> *Authorities in Gaza have blocked the launch of a women's television channel there, just before it was due to go on air.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officials from the Palestinian militant Islamist group Hamas, which dominates the territory, said Taif TV had not obtained the necessary licenses.
> However the channel said it had met all the legal requirements.
> Civil liberties groups have long criticized Hamas for what they say is a poor record on women's rights in Gaza.
> 
> The Palestinian independent Maan news agency said Hamas had on Sunday banned a launch party for the channel, after which it was meant to begin broadcasting.
Click to expand...

Indeed, that issue was raised in my video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The First All-Female Radio Station In Gaza Calls For Equality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas*
> *Authorities in Gaza have blocked the launch of a women's television channel there, just before it was due to go on air.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Officials from the Palestinian militant Islamist group Hamas, which dominates the territory, said Taif TV had not obtained the necessary licenses.
> However the channel said it had met all the legal requirements.
> Civil liberties groups have long criticized Hamas for what they say is a poor record on women's rights in Gaza.
> 
> The Palestinian independent Maan news agency said Hamas had on Sunday banned a launch party for the channel, after which it was meant to begin broadcasting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, that issue was raised in my video.
Click to expand...


Oh, Jesse, “your video”. 

Indeed, your PressTV videos are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas

*Gaza women's TV channel blocked by Hamas*

Authorities in Gaza have blocked the launch of a women's television channel there, just before it was due to go on air.

Officials from the Palestinian militant Islamist group Hamas, which dominates the territory, said Taif TV had not obtained the necessary licences.

However the channel said it had met all the legal requirements.

Civil liberties groups have long criticised Hamas for what they say is a poor record on women's rights in Gaza.

The Palestinian independent Maan news agency said Hamas had on Sunday banned a launch party for the channel, after which it was meant to begin broadcasting.
*
*
Shirley, these uppity women must realize that there place in ummah’istan is in their room, in their hijab.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,

Our friend "P F Tinmore" uses this "name calling" argument quite frequently.



P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas is furious at the law against them in Congress: Trump is eliminating the Palestinian problem*
> 
> Last month, the US State Department announced the introduction of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to the list of terrorism and sanctions against him.
> 
> To impose sanctions against Hamas for violating universally applicable international laws of armed conflict by intentionally using civilians and civilian property to shield military objectives from lawful attack, and for other purposes. (H.R. 3542)
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, more third grade name calling.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is  →  what it is!  These rules are related directly to the principles 

✪  Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I,
✪  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II,​


​
We've discussed this topic many many times in response to the Arab Palestinian's claims of excessive collateral casualties   →  a direct result of:

✪  Arab Palestinian opponents intentionally place Civilian People in close proximity to legitimate military targets.
✪  Arab Palestinian opponents intentionally locate legitimate military targets in close proximity to Civilian Objects.​
When such actions by the Arab Palestinians are such that they “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” the question of Rule #97 comes into play.



​
The use of human shields requires an intentional co-location of military objectives and civilians or persons _hors de combat_ with the specific intent of trying to prevent the targeting of those military objectives.  This also covers the prohibitions in Parts III and IV of Protocol II wherein special protections are granted for the Personnel, Equipment and Vehicles of the UN, the ICRC, Medical and Religious, and other such recognized emblems; the misuse of these emblems to prevent interdiction by the opposing force is also a War Crime.

Additionally, the Arab Palestinians have a well established past history of criminal behaviors that outside the prohibitions of S/RES/1624 (2005):

✪  Incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

✪  Provide safe haven and houses to known Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct; this would include public acknowledgement as Martyrs;

✪  Violate the security of international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty from entering their territory;​
✪  Obstruct or degrade international efforts to enhance dialogue and broaden understanding among civilizations, in an effort to prevent the indiscriminate targeting of different religions and cultures, and to take all measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to counter incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance and to prevent the subversion of educational, cultural, and religious institutions by terrorists and their supporters;​
Hardly a week goes by that the Arab Palestinian does not praise a terrorist; or is attempting to induce Arab Palestinian citizens create an atmospheres of violence.

In the case of Khaled Meshal, he wrote (2012) that: "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Additionally, the Arab Palestinians have a well established past history of criminal behaviors that outside the prohibitions of S/RES/1624 (2005):


Palestine was not mentioned.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ✪ Provide safe haven and houses to known Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct; this would include public acknowledgement as Martyrs;


Like Palestinians defending themselves and their country?

BTW, Rocco, what people, besides the Palestinians, have no right to defend themselves?


----------



## P F Tinmore

1,730,023 have signed. Almost every country in the world, including Israel, is represented. Add your support.






Help free my daughter


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> 1,730,023 have signed. Almost every country in the world, including Israel, is represented. Add your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help free my daughter




She's an obnoxious brat.  Why should she be freed?  Just because of her age and gender?  She has to learn how to behave responsibly.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ Provide safe haven and houses to known Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct; this would include public acknowledgement as Martyrs;
> 
> 
> 
> Like Palestinians defending themselves and their country?
> 
> BTW, Rocco, what people, besides the Palestinians, have no right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...


Only if You think "Palestinian land" spreads from Qatar to Israel.

Tribes of Arabia - TAMIMI TRIBE

The tribe of *Banu Tamim* (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎) or *Bani Tamim* (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi Arabia,[1][2] Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Lebanon and Palestine. The word _Tamim_ in Arabic means strong and solid. It can also mean perfection.[3]

Author and researcher Afshin Shahi stated that before the advent of Wahhabism there was very little history of Islamic education amongst Banu Tamim.[4]





Ahed Tamimi


*Dynasties[edit]*

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
Al Khater – a prestigious family of the middle east based primarily in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain





(Emir of Qatar Al-Thani Tamimi with PA and HAMAS)


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1,730,023 have signed. Almost every country in the world, including Israel, is represented. Add your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Help free my daughter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's an obnoxious brat.  Why should she be freed?  Just because of her age and gender?  She has to learn how to behave responsibly.
Click to expand...

So do the goontards who would not get out of her yard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*CENSORED in US Media. Racist Psychological Genocide in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *CENSORED in US Media. Racist Psychological Genocide in Palestine*
> 
> **



"Censored", but it's on YouTube.

That's so silly.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *CENSORED in US Media. Racist Psychological Genocide in Palestine*
> 
> **



*Taissir Tamimi*

*Sheikh Taissir Dayut Tamimi* (Arabic: شيخ تيسير تميمي‎ is the chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian National Authority







 The latest warning was issued on Wednesday by the Chief [Islamic] Judge of the Palestinian Authority, Sheikh Tayseer Rajab Tamimi, who reminded the Palestinians of an existing fatwa [religious decree] than bans them from selling property to Jews.


----------



## Hollie

*Antisemitic Fatah op-ed:  Shakespeare`s Shylock was an accurate description of the Jews - PMW Bulletins

Antisemitic Fatah op-ed: *
*Shakespeare's Shylock was an accurate description of the Jews*


*"Shakespeare correctly described the deceitful, greedy,
trickster, extortionist, and lowly character of the Jews *
*in the story The Merchant of Venice"*


By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

The author of an op-ed published on the website of Fatah's Information and Culture Commission in Lebanon recently stated that Shakespeare was accurate in his antisemitic description of the Jews as seen in his character Shylock from the play The Merchant of Venice:

"While Britain's colonialist history is full of people like [former British Foreign Secretary Arthur] Balfour, [Baron] Rothschild, [former British Prime Minister] Tony Blair, and [British Prime Minister] Theresa May, the greatest playwright William Shakespeare correctly described the deceitful, greedy, trickster, extortionist, and lowly character of the Jews in the story The Merchant of Venice in the 16th century."
[Falestinona, website of Fatah's Information and Culture Commission
in Lebanon, Jan. 31, 2018]


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *CENSORED in US Media. Racist Psychological Genocide in Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Censored", but it's on YouTube.
> 
> That's so silly.
Click to expand...

Have you seen any of this in the US media?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *CENSORED in US Media. Racist Psychological Genocide in Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Censored", but it's on YouTube.
> 
> That's so silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you seen any of this in the US media?
Click to expand...


I’m not an enabler of you or your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


*Islamic University of Gaza*


The *Islamic University of Gaza* (Arabic: الجامعة الإسلامية بغزة‎), also known as *IUG*, *IU Gaza* and *The University of Gaza*, is an independent Palestinian university established in 1978 in Gaza City,

Islamic University of Gaza - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza Today: Last summer’s displaced persons still living in schools, 2015*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza Today: Last summer’s displaced persons still living in schools, 2015*
> 
> **



Sacrifices must be made to keep the UNRWA welfare fraud financed.

Hamas second-richest terror group in world, Forbes says


----------



## rylah

*Hamas leader praises Iran*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Some girl bearing the name "Jihad" is Your hero*...
Shocking, since You never use little girls to forward Hamas messages

Q. I wonder how her family got that name...must be by peaceful meditation, right?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

OH, you are asking a question based on a hypothetical condition.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ Provide safe haven and houses to known Jihadist, Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct; this would include public acknowledgement as Martyrs;
> 
> 
> 
> Like Palestinians defending themselves and their country?
> 
> BTW, Rocco, what people, besides the Palestinians, have no right to defend themselves?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•   Q1:  Defending themselves and their country ?  

✪⇒  Under Customary and Existing Law, all nations have the right to self-defense.  The current source and origin of the contemporary view is Article 15 of the UN Charter.

✪⇒ In 1967 (June 5th), the Kingdom of Jordan → In response to the Israeli attack, → "Jordanian forces launched an offensive into Israel," _(*SOURCE - 1:* *Official Jordanian History*)_ "but were soon driven back as the Israeli forces counterattacked into the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem."​
•  In 1967 the Arab Palestinians were defending the territory of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

✪⇒ The territory of the West Bank and Jerusalem were included → and on → "April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion."  " _(*SOURCE - 2:* *Official Jordanian History*)_ ​•   Q2:  Now there is an argument floating that the Arab Palestinians were not empowered to make such a decision on the matter of self-determination.  BUT, the Customary and International Law is clear: 

✪⇒ The United Nations position that the Arab Palestinians had no right to Self-Determination; and that such a move → to be incorporated as a sovereign part of Jordan → was incompetent and void.  The UN attempted to persuade other states not to recognize the annexation.  However, International law further stipulates that:

✪⇒ The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.​
In the discovery of apparent facts through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that:

✪⇒  Arab Palestinians were not invaded by the Israelis.  Whatever the nature of the territorial conflict and dispute was resolved by the Treaty of Peace in 1994.  The 1994 Treaty ended the conflict in so far as the relative sovereignty and the boundary dispute.  As a result of the 1994 Treaty, the Armistice Lines dissolved, as part of the last official act.

✪⇒    The Arab Palestinians having once been battling with the Israelis since 1967; without a cause of action.  They claim they are defending their country, which they never established effective control or sovereignty.​

✪⇒    There must be such a condition ⇒ exist "a necessity of self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation,' and furthermore that any action taken must be proportional, "since the act justified by the necessity of self-defence, must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."​
The accuser (The Arab Palestinians) represents an entity that has committed a series of crimes, thereby warranting prosecution.

*∑*  The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ✪⇒ Arab Palestinians were not invaded by the Israelis. Whatever the nature of the territorial conflict and dispute was resolved by the Treaty of Peace in 1994. The 1994 Treaty ended the conflict in so far as the relative sovereignty and the boundary dispute. As a result of the 1994 Treaty, the Armistice Lines dissolved, as part of the last official act.


How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.


Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.

All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.

Good luck with that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒ Arab Palestinians were not invaded by the Israelis. Whatever the nature of the territorial conflict and dispute was resolved by the Treaty of Peace in 1994. The 1994 Treaty ended the conflict in so far as the relative sovereignty and the boundary dispute. As a result of the 1994 Treaty, the Armistice Lines dissolved, as part of the last official act.
> 
> 
> 
> How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?
Click to expand...


You're still befuddled after the dozen or more times you have been corrected for your error?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
Click to expand...


All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.

You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
Click to expand...


Such an angry Islamist. 

It’s funny that you cut and paste YouTube videos from the Iranian mullocrats PressTV which are unrelated to any comment I made.

Do you get confused as to which silly YouTube videos you dump into various threads?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist.
> 
> It’s funny that you cut and paste YouTube videos from the Iranian mullocrats PressTV which are unrelated to any comment I made.
> 
> Do you get confused as to which silly YouTube videos you dump into various threads?
Click to expand...

Press TV hired all of those actors and made all of those props?

You are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *∑* The Arab Palestinians cannot be defending "their country" if they never had the country to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist.
> 
> It’s funny that you cut and paste YouTube videos from the Iranian mullocrats PressTV which are unrelated to any comment I made.
> 
> Do you get confused as to which silly YouTube videos you dump into various threads?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Press TV hired all of those actors and made all of those props?
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...


It was a 2014 vintage YouTube video.

You are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist.
> 
> It’s funny that you cut and paste YouTube videos from the Iranian mullocrats PressTV which are unrelated to any comment I made.
> 
> Do you get confused as to which silly YouTube videos you dump into various threads?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Press TV hired all of those actors and made all of those props?
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a 2014 vintage YouTube video.
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...

So Palestine only existed in 2014?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?



It didn't.  The 1994 treaty kept the borders between the Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (formerly known as "Palestine").


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't.  The 1994 treaty kept the borders between the Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (formerly known as "Palestine").
Click to expand...

What treaty made Palestine into Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> All you have to do is convince a single person there was a "country of Pally'land" you have invented.
> 
> You have tried and failed repeatedly with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist.
> 
> It’s funny that you cut and paste YouTube videos from the Iranian mullocrats PressTV which are unrelated to any comment I made.
> 
> Do you get confused as to which silly YouTube videos you dump into various threads?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Press TV hired all of those actors and made all of those props?
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a 2014 vintage YouTube video.
> 
> You are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So Palestine only existed in 2014?
Click to expand...


Your invented, Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally’land? 

No, it didn’t exist in 2014. 

You remain befuddled about times, places and events that have been explained to you repeatedly. How is it you remain befuddled?


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> ✪⇒    There must be such a condition ⇒ exist "a necessity of self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation,' and furthermore that any action taken must be proportional, "since the act justified by the necessity of self-defence, must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."





P F Tinmore said:


> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.



In order for self-defense claim to be valid there must be a condition requiring self-defense.  There is none.  No one is attacking the Arab Palestinian people.  Border disputes and desire for self-determination are not conditions requiring self-defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't.  The 1994 treaty kept the borders between the Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (formerly known as "Palestine").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What treaty made Palestine into Israel?
Click to expand...


There is a thread dedicated to your befuddlement. You can go there and read the many times your befuddlement has been addressed.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What treaty made Palestine into Israel?



What treaty made Palestine into Jordan?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did that change Palestine's international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't.  The 1994 treaty kept the borders between the Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel (formerly known as "Palestine").
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What treaty made Palestine into Israel?
Click to expand...


Pal’Istan was a geographic area. You have attached associations to and constructed in your imagination a place that never existed as you present it in your alternate reality.

You realize your invention is delusional, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒    There must be such a condition ⇒ exist "a necessity of self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation,' and furthermore that any action taken must be proportional, "since the act justified by the necessity of self-defence, must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In order for self-defense claim to be valid there must be a condition requiring self-defense.  There is none.  No one is attacking the Arab Palestinian people.  Border disputes and desire for self-determination are not conditions requiring self-defense.
Click to expand...

None of Palestine's international borders are disputed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The emperor’s new terrorist*

The Israeli occupation prosecutors have been working arduously for two months, like the tailors in Hans Christian Andersen’s The Emperor’s New Clothes, to tailor a case for Ahed Tamimi, in order to make her a terrorist.

After her arrest, it was ruled that she must be kept in prison until the end of proceedings, because, God forbid, she might slap again.

After indicting her on some rather ridiculous charges such as “interfering with a soldier carrying out his duties”, her trial was to actually begin on her 17th birthday, the 31st of January – but it was delayed a week, and then another week. The prosecutors needed more time to tailor the final, invisible touches to this amazing case.

The emperor’s new terrorist


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘Great Concern’: Chile Calls on Israel to Release Ahed Tamimi

*
The Chilean government’s comments on the Palestinian teen’s case came after the local Palestinian community launched a solidarity campaign for her.

Amid a campaign by the large local Palestinian community, the Chilean government expressed Friday its “great concern” over the case of Palestinian iconic teen Ahed Tamimi, who is being tried by an Israeli military court in secret proceedings in a case that has garnered massive international attention.

"In view of this unfortunate situation affecting a minor, the Chilean government reiterated to the representation of Israel the need for the rights of the Palestinian minor to be fully respected,” said a statement released by Chile’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.*
*
The statement concluded by saying that the Chilean government “awaits the prompt release of Ahed Tamimi.”*

‘Great Concern’: Chile Calls on Israel to Release Ahed Tamimi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why the Experience of Ahed Tamimi Matters So Much*

*




*

Israel’s prosecution of Ahed Tamimi under an Israeli military court for putting up resistance to Israel’s occupation regime epitomizes the unspeakable inhumanity of holding a civilian population captive for generations.

It is now known by virtually everyone who follows the Palestinian struggle that a 16-year-old girl named Ahed Tamimi, who is now 17, confronted Israeli soldiers on her family’s land shortly after her cousin, Mohammed, was shot in the face with a rubber bullet, causing a coma. The video of her actions has gone viral, showing the world a courageous young woman engaging in nonviolent acts of resistance, and then a day later in the middle of the night being arrested in her home and then charged with a series of crimes; as is standard Israeli practice in the arrest of children, Ahed was hauled off to an Israeli prison facility out of reach of her family and then denied bail.

*Why the Experience of Ahed Tamimi Matters So Much*


----------



## Cherub786

Ahed Tamimi looks like a typical European whore. Arabs don't have blond hair and pale skin. She is not one of us. Our women cover their head and wear black.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> None of Palestine's international borders are disputed.



Agreed.  There is no dispute about the international borders for the territory formerly known as Palestine and now called Israel.  

The border dispute is for the civil conflict between sovereign Israel and not-yet-sovereign "Palestine".  A border dispute, or the determination of where the border will be, is not a condition requiring self-defense.  That Jews live down the road from you is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Even that Jews use your well is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Not wanting Jews to have self-determination is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Not wanting to divide a territory into smaller sovereign States is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Non-recognition of the indigeneity of the Jewish people in the territory is not a condition requiring self-defense.  

Do you know what ARE conditions requiring self-defense?  Indiscriminate rockets.  Random stabbings.  Suicide bombers.  Violent riots.  

Now, help a sister out and tell me what treaty turned Palestine into Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of Palestine's international borders are disputed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  There is no dispute about the international borders for the territory formerly known as Palestine and now called Israel.
> 
> The border dispute is for the civil conflict between sovereign Israel and not-yet-sovereign "Palestine".  A border dispute, or the determination of where the border will be, is not a condition requiring self-defense.  That Jews live down the road from you is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Even that Jews use your well is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Not wanting Jews to have self-determination is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Not wanting to divide a territory into smaller sovereign States is not a condition requiring self-defense.  Non-recognition of the indigeneity of the Jewish people in the territory is not a condition requiring self-defense.
> 
> Do you know what ARE conditions requiring self-defense?  Indiscriminate rockets.  Random stabbings.  Suicide bombers.  Violent riots.
> 
> Now, help a sister out and tell me what treaty turned Palestine into Jordan.
Click to expand...

WOW, what a goofy rant. None of that makes any sense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒    There must be such a condition ⇒ exist "a necessity of self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation,' and furthermore that any action taken must be proportional, "since the act justified by the necessity of self-defence, must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In order for self-defense claim to be valid there must be a condition requiring self-defense.  There is none.  No one is attacking the Arab Palestinian people.  Border disputes and desire for self-determination are not conditions requiring self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of Palestine's international borders are disputed.
Click to expand...


I don’t think anyone disputes you have given imaginary borders to the imaginary “country of Pal’istan” you have invented.


----------



## Mindful

Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.




That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


OK, but none of that has any relevance.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
Click to expand...


Abbas has no relevance to Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians? 

Actually, he carries the legacy of fraud, thievery and gee-had that began when Yassir "_It's not AIDS_" Arafat invented the Pal'istanians in late 1967.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
Click to expand...


Why do you even bother?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even bother?
Click to expand...

Why do you bother with irrelevance?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas has no relevance to Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians?
> 
> Actually, he carries the legacy of fraud, thievery and gee-had that began when Yassir "_It's not AIDS_" Arafat invented the Pal'istanians in late 1967.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Abbas has no relevance


Indeed.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you bother with irrelevance?
Click to expand...


Yet you still bother with me.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abbas has no relevance to Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians?
> 
> Actually, he carries the legacy of fraud, thievery and gee-had that began when Yassir "_It's not AIDS_" Arafat invented the Pal'istanians in late 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas has no relevance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you're reduced to selectively editing posts as a way to spam the thread.


----------



## Hollie

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you bother with irrelevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet you still bother with me.
Click to expand...


He practices the lesser gee-had.


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, if you have truth on your side, you don’t have to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Time Mahmoud Abbas Changed His Story About the Palestinian Refugees
> We already know that PA President Mahmoud Abbas loves to change the palestinian narrative he puts forward. And I’ve found another example, this…
> ISRAELLYCOOL.COM
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but none of that has any relevance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you even bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you bother with irrelevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet you still bother with me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He practices the lesser gee-had.
Click to expand...


He's just a nuisance.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine does not maintain a single border.  THUS, there is nothing to contest.  So, of course "none of Palestine's international borders are disputed;" there are none.

There is no need to read any farther than this, once you understand that the Geo-political legal entity of Palestine (alla 1920 - 1948) means something entirely different than the Geo-political term of Palestine today.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒    There must be such a condition ⇒ exist "a necessity of self-defense, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation,' and furthermore that any action taken must be proportional, "since the act justified by the necessity of self-defence, must be limited by that necessity, and kept clearly within it."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh jeese, another Palestine denier.
> 
> All you have to do now is convince 12 million Palestinians that there never was a Palestine.
> 
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In order for self-defense claim to be valid there must be a condition requiring self-defense.  There is none.  No one is attacking the Arab Palestinian people.  Border disputes and desire for self-determination are not conditions requiring self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of Palestine's international borders are disputed.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In *Posting #1557*, you attempt to use subterfuge in suggesting that there were:

✪  Palestine had international borders.

✪  That were defined by treaties in 1922.  The Paulet-Newcombe Agreement did not conclude until 1923.

To the first point, the term Palestine described the undefined legal entity established by the Allied Powers,
✪  Whereas the Principal _Allied Powers have agreed_, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of _the territory of Palestine_, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, _within such boundaries as may be fixed by them_;

Allied Powers Agreed to it.
The territory was defined by the Mandatory in conjunction with the Allied Power.
Boundaries established by the Allied Powers.
*NOTE:* Near & Middle East Titles: 
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947

Historical Overview
In Ottoman times, *no political entity called Palestine existed.* After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.​
✪  Palestine Order in LoN Council -  (10 August 1922)

The Territory was not defined by a Treaty.  It was a conceptual territory as discussed in the San Remo Agreement of 1920.  The entity that was called "Palestine" in 1922 was defined by the Palestine Order in Council under an agreement protocol in the Mandate by the Allied Powers::

•  Title.1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."


The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
While not all that valid today, historically there are several political aspects that need to be considered key when discussing the "boundary" issues in or around the period you identified:


Anglo-French post-war negotiations over the boundaries of Palestine 1919-1920 and the revision of the Sykes-Picot line; regarding the northern frontier.  "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (1920)(Ratified 1923)

Delimitation of frontier between Palestine and Syria, March-July 1921.

Agreement between the United Kingdom and Transjordan, March 1928.

Agreement between Palestine and Syria and Lebanon amending the Agreement of 2 February 1926 regarding the frontier questions, 3 November 1938.

Treaty of Alliance between the United Kingdom and the Amir of Transjordan, 22 March 1946.

Notes on the legal status of Palestine and the termination of the Mandate.
*EXCEPT:  Tripartite Declaration Regarding the Armistice Borders: Statement by the Governments of the United States, The United Kingdom, and France, May 25, 1950 •*
The Governments of the United Kingdom, France, and the United States, having had occasion during the recent Foreign Ministers meeting in London to review certain questions affecting the peace and stability of the Arab states and of Israel, and particularly that of the supply of arms and war material to these states, have resolved to make the following statements:
...

*3.* The three Governments take this opportunity of declaring their deep interest in and their desire to promote the establishment and maintenance of peace and stability in the area and their unalterable opposition to the use of force or threat of force between any of the states in that area. _*The three Governments*, should they *find that any of these states was preparing to violate frontiers or armistice lines,* would, consistently with their obligations as members of the United Nations, *immediately take action, both within and outside* the United Nations, to prevent such violation. _​
The Tripartite Declaration remained an important and contemporary agreement right up and until the Peace Treaties dissolved _(relative to the West Bank and Gaza)_ the Armistice Lines in 1979 and 1994.

The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's  irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:

*•  Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​
By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.


Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
Click to expand...

*Article V​*​
1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine. 

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
It was the same for other agreements.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.
Click to expand...


In your desperation, you just make up your own definitions as you go along. 

Do a search regarding Mandate Palestine and French Mandate for Syria and lebanon.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
Click to expand...


What assertion?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your desperation, you just make up your own definitions as you go along.
> 
> Do a search regarding Mandate Palestine and French Mandate for Syria and lebanon.
Click to expand...

What about them?

I use actual documents. You use???


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What assertion?
Click to expand...

That Palestine has international borders.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Palestine has international borders.
Click to expand...


No such place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your desperation, you just make up your own definitions as you go along.
> 
> Do a search regarding Mandate Palestine and French Mandate for Syria and lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about them?
> 
> I use actual documents. You use???
Click to expand...


Indeed, you don't understand what you cut and paste.

As you have claimed repeatedly, "The Mandate for Palestine possessed no territory." So, where and when did these "international borders" get established?

Did you ever make an attempt to understand the Mandatory systems I noted you should study?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Palestine has international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No such place.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your desperation, you just make up your own definitions as you go along.
> 
> Do a search regarding Mandate Palestine and French Mandate for Syria and lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about them?
> 
> I use actual documents. You use???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you don't understand what you cut and paste.
> 
> As you have claimed repeatedly, "The Mandate for Palestine possessed no territory." So, where and when did these "international borders" get established?
> 
> Did you ever make an attempt to understand the Mandatory systems I noted you should study?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> As you have claimed repeatedly, "The Mandate for Palestine possessed no territory."


It didn't. The Mandate was an administration not a place.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it is curious that you have assigned "international borders" to your invented "country of Pal'istan" where none exist.
> 
> 
> 
> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In your desperation, you just make up your own definitions as you go along.
> 
> Do a search regarding Mandate Palestine and French Mandate for Syria and lebanon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about them?
> 
> I use actual documents. You use???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you don't understand what you cut and paste.
> 
> As you have claimed repeatedly, "The Mandate for Palestine possessed no territory." So, where and when did these "international borders" get established?
> 
> Did you ever make an attempt to understand the Mandatory systems I noted you should study?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you have claimed repeatedly, "The Mandate for Palestine possessed no territory."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It didn't. The Mandate was an administration not a place.
Click to expand...

 
That's a start.

Lets move forward. Did you notice the article you linked to is entitled

"Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949"

Back to my earlier question; when and where were your claimed "international borders of Palestine" established?

Link?

BTW, all your whining has been addressed here:
The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What assertion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That Palestine has international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No such place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

There are two, and only two types of statements, which can be meaningful assertions: •  those that are TRUE, and • those that are FALSE.

When I make an assertion, I attempt to accompany it with some verifiable source and the logic that makes it valuable to us.  As I have done in Posting #1593, without writing a dissertation,

But as you have done here, you have made a "bare assertion" _(one with no supporting history or documentation)_.  It is TRUE only because you say it is TRUE.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Political importance of the Hostile Arab Palestinians to try and establish meaning to the Palestine's irrational "international borders that were defined by treaties in 1922" is because the hardline Arab Palestinians wan the Palestine Charter to have meaning:
> 
> *• Article 2:* Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> By locking into this concept, the implication is that the State of Israel is (in some fashion) illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and nobody has offered any evidence to refute that assertion.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Whether or not the philosophical aspect of your argument is sound and valid, the "reality"  _[(actual existence of the State of Israel) or existence) and (the non-existence of the Arab Palestinian control borders)]_ inside the Palestinian Charter description is self-explanatory; speaks for itself. 

In 1949, when the Armistice Agreements were exchanged, the Arab counterparts in the Armistice exchange did not recognize an entity called Palestine as meaningful.    In 1979, the Treaty between the Government of 
of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of Israel, recognized the boundary as that of the 
"former mandated territory of Palestine."  Similarly, in 1994 with the Treaty between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel, was "delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate."  While the two treaties were executed without prejudice, Palestine was not represented or recognized. And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”,  making no reference to and Palestinian national entity _(the word Palestine not mentioned once)_.

I would suspect that had there been a self-governing Palestine in ANY of these examples, there would be some mention of it.

I cannot prove the negative in this case; but, I can demonstrate that there was no affirmation:

No Armistice with Palestine.
No Treaty with Palestine.
No Border control with Palestine.
No Border Agreement with Palestine.
We are not even sure that the State of Palestine exists even today; or at least not without consequences.  See: UN MEMO _(Only 4 pages long)_:  Issues Related to General Assembly Resolution 67/19 on the Status of Palestine in the Unted Nations.

I'm sure you all have seen this; but it is here as a reminder.  I think the MEMO is well worth reading.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It didn't. The Mandate was an administration not a place.



And "Palestine" was/is a place and not a sovereign.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Article V*
> 
> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​
> It was the same for other agreements.



You keep plucking individual phrases out of agreements and using them to assert a falsehood which is not demonstrated in the agreement when seen as a whole.  Who are the Parties to the Armistice Agreement you bring up here?  Who are the sovereigns who are negotiating a treaty between them?  Lebanon and Israel.  There are no other Parties to the agreement. There is no Palestinian sovereign in play here.  

One would think that if "Palestine" was a sovereign that they would be a Party to the agreement concerning their sovereign territory.  Why weren't they, then?  If they existed as a sovereign, why were they not Party to any of the agreements?

Newsflash -- use of the term "Palestine" as a geographical descriptor does not in any way create a sovereign nation.  Nor does it prove the existence of a sovereign State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”


This is misleading. For one, there was no Israel in 1923. That was the border between Palestine and Lebanon.

There was no Israel border there in 2000. They created a "Blue Line" for Israel to withdraw over similar to the "Green Line" that was created in 1949 because Israel has no border there. Israel still has no border with Lebanon. Israel only has say so borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> You keep plucking individual phrases out of agreements and using them to assert a falsehood which is not demonstrated in the agreement when seen as a whole. Who are the Parties to the Armistice Agreement you bring up here?


The Armistice Agreements restricted the actions and movements of armed forces involved in the 1848 war. Even though the war was fought in Palestine, they were not a party to that war.

The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned.

The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine's international borders. No borders were mentioned for Israel.

The land inside Palestine's borders was called Palestine. No land called Israel was mentioned.

Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep plucking individual phrases out of agreements and using them to assert a falsehood which is not demonstrated in the agreement when seen as a whole. Who are the Parties to the Armistice Agreement you bring up here?
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements restricted the actions and movements of armed forces involved in the 1848 war. Even though the war was fought in Palestine, they were not a party to that war.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine's international borders. No borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> The land inside Palestine's borders was called Palestine. No land called Israel was mentioned.
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation.
Click to expand...


Did you forget that you posted a link to an article entitled:

"Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949"

The above appears to mention Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep plucking individual phrases out of agreements and using them to assert a falsehood which is not demonstrated in the agreement when seen as a whole. Who are the Parties to the Armistice Agreement you bring up here?
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements restricted the actions and movements of armed forces involved in the 1848 war. Even though the war was fought in Palestine, they were not a party to that war.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine's international borders. No borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> The land inside Palestine's borders was called Palestine. No land called Israel was mentioned.
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you forget that you posted a link to an article entitled:
> 
> "Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949"
> 
> The above appears to mention Israel.
Click to expand...

Israeli not Israel.

If one side of the border is Lebanon and the other side is Palestine, where is Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep plucking individual phrases out of agreements and using them to assert a falsehood which is not demonstrated in the agreement when seen as a whole. Who are the Parties to the Armistice Agreement you bring up here?
> 
> 
> 
> The Armistice Agreements restricted the actions and movements of armed forces involved in the 1848 war. Even though the war was fought in Palestine, they were not a party to that war.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned.
> 
> The Armistice Agreements mentioned Palestine's international borders. No borders were mentioned for Israel.
> 
> The land inside Palestine's borders was called Palestine. No land called Israel was mentioned.
> 
> Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you forget that you posted a link to an article entitled:
> 
> "Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949"
> 
> The above appears to mention Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli not Israel.
> 
> If one side of the border is Lebanon and the other side is Palestine, where is Israel?
Click to expand...


Did you forget that you posted a link to an article entitled:

"Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949".

Odd how your re-writing of the document suddenly changed Lebanese to Lebanon. 

If one side of the border is Lebanese and the other Israeli, I suppose that means, well, you know, that you’re making a distinction that can only be made by someone who has fallen down and knocked themselves senseless.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli not Israel.
> 
> If one side of the border is Lebanon and the other side is Palestine, where is Israel?



Israel would be the sovereign over the geographical territory formerly known as Palestine.  The only sovereigns (Parties to the agreement) are Lebanon and Israel.  There were no other sovereigns.  There are no other sovereigns.

This is apparent in subsequent peace agreements, including the Israel-Lebanon Peace Agreement of May 17, 1983 which states in Article 1:

*ARTICLE I*
_
1. The Parties agree and undertake to respect the sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity of each other. They consider the *existing international boundary *between Israel and Lebanon inviolable.  _(emphasis mine)


Where is the State of Palestine in all this?  Why is Lebanon negotiating with Israel; creating treaties with Israel if a State of Palestine exists?  (Hint:  it doesn't exist).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Odd how your re-writing of the document suddenly changed Lebanese to Lebanon.


That was a copy/paste. I did not change anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli not Israel.
> 
> If one side of the border is Lebanon and the other side is Palestine, where is Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel would be the sovereign over the geographical territory formerly known as Palestine.  The only sovereigns (Parties to the agreement) are Lebanon and Israel.  There were no other sovereigns.  There are no other sovereigns.
> 
> This is apparent in subsequent peace agreements, including the Israel-Lebanon Peace Agreement of May 17, 1983 which states in Article 1:
> 
> *ARTICLE I*
> _
> 1. The Parties agree and undertake to respect the sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity of each other. They consider the *existing international boundary *between Israel and Lebanon inviolable.  _(emphasis mine)
> 
> 
> Where is the State of Palestine in all this?  Why is Lebanon negotiating with Israel; creating treaties with Israel if a State of Palestine exists?  (Hint:  it doesn't exist).
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Why is Lebanon negotiating with Israel;


Egypt and Jordan were both paid to do it. The US is dumping money into Lebanon to influence it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Odd how your re-writing of the document suddenly changed Lebanese to Lebanon.
> 
> 
> 
> That was a copy/paste. I did not change anything.
Click to expand...


I guess you just can’t admit to your dishonesty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli not Israel.
> 
> If one side of the border is Lebanon and the other side is Palestine, where is Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel would be the sovereign over the geographical territory formerly known as Palestine.  The only sovereigns (Parties to the agreement) are Lebanon and Israel.  There were no other sovereigns.  There are no other sovereigns.
> 
> This is apparent in subsequent peace agreements, including the Israel-Lebanon Peace Agreement of May 17, 1983 which states in Article 1:
> 
> *ARTICLE I*
> _
> 1. The Parties agree and undertake to respect the sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity of each other. They consider the *existing international boundary *between Israel and Lebanon inviolable.  _(emphasis mine)
> 
> 
> Where is the State of Palestine in all this?  Why is Lebanon negotiating with Israel; creating treaties with Israel if a State of Palestine exists?  (Hint:  it doesn't exist).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is Lebanon negotiating with Israel;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan were both paid to do it. The US is dumping money into Lebanon to influence it.
Click to expand...


Another of your silly conspiracy theories.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

It is a direct quote from of the UNIPAL Document Record.  A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 *Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon** to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. *

It also states that:

"*III. The thrust of the resolution, the above report and the work of Mr. Roed-Larsen and his team*

 The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, _*confirm unequivocally  that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949,*_ under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between."​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> 
> 
> This is misleading. For one, there was no Israel in 1923. That was the border between Palestine and Lebanon.
> 
> There was no Israel border there in 2000. They created a "Blue Line" for Israel to withdraw over similar to the "Green Line" that was created in 1949 because Israel has no border there. Israel still has no border with Lebanon. Israel only has say so borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In the correspondence, pertaining to the 21st Century boundary issues of that time, the key parties to the official communication speak in the relative terms of the present day true reality.

They are speaking about the post-War boundary (1949); after the May 1948 establishment of the Jewish State.

Remember, you must excuse those of us that are not solely dedicated to seeing the Arab Palestinian Alternate Reality.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is a direct quote from of the UNIPAL Document Record.  A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 *Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon** to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. *
> 
> It also states that:
> 
> "*III. The thrust of the resolution, the above report and the work of Mr. Roed-Larsen and his team*
> 
> The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, _*confirm unequivocally  that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949,*_ under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> 
> 
> This is misleading. For one, there was no Israel in 1923. That was the border between Palestine and Lebanon.
> 
> There was no Israel border there in 2000. They created a "Blue Line" for Israel to withdraw over similar to the "Green Line" that was created in 1949 because Israel has no border there. Israel still has no border with Lebanon. Israel only has say so borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the correspondence, pertaining to the 21st Century boundary issues of that time, the key parties to the official communication speak in the relative terms of the present day true reality.
> 
> They are speaking about the post-War boundary (1949); after the May 1948 establishment of the Jewish State.
> 
> Remember, you must excuse those of us that are not solely dedicated to seeing the Arab Palestinian Alternate Reality.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

From your link:

The most important point is that it cast doubt on the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel and again adopted the principle of the “withdrawal line” rather than the “boundary line”​
Even after the supposed creation of Israel in 1948, the 1949 Armistice Agreement (that Israel signed) called that the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. I have seen nothing that changes the status of that border.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is a direct quote from of the UNIPAL Document Record.  A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 *Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon** to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. *
> 
> It also states that:
> 
> "*III. The thrust of the resolution, the above report and the work of Mr. Roed-Larsen and his team*
> 
> The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, _*confirm unequivocally  that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949,*_ under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> 
> 
> This is misleading. For one, there was no Israel in 1923. That was the border between Palestine and Lebanon.
> 
> There was no Israel border there in 2000. They created a "Blue Line" for Israel to withdraw over similar to the "Green Line" that was created in 1949 because Israel has no border there. Israel still has no border with Lebanon. Israel only has say so borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the correspondence, pertaining to the 21st Century boundary issues of that time, the key parties to the official communication speak in the relative terms of the present day true reality.
> 
> They are speaking about the post-War boundary (1949); after the May 1948 establishment of the Jewish State.
> 
> Remember, you must excuse those of us that are not solely dedicated to seeing the Arab Palestinian Alternate Reality.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> _*confirm unequivocally  that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” *_


The '67 borders are internationally recognized boundaries but they are not international borders.



RoccoR said:


> _*Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949,*_


And that is the armistice line that was specifically not to be a political or territorial border.

*Article V​*
1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/arm02.asp


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you are still a bit confused.  There is no longer a question as to whether it is:  •  The Red Line,  •  The Purple Line or the •  The Blue Line.  Both the S/RES/425 (1978) and the opening lines written by the President of Lebanon in the 7 June 2000 letter are quite clear - as to the Issue of the International Boundary.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is a direct quote from of the UNIPAL Document Record.  A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 *Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon** to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. *
> 
> It also states that:
> 
> "*III. The thrust of the resolution, the above report and the work of Mr. Roed-Larsen and his team*
> 
> The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, _*confirm unequivocally  that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949,*_ under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And again in 2000, “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”
> 
> 
> 
> This is misleading. For one, there was no Israel in 1923. That was the border between Palestine and Lebanon.
> 
> There was no Israel border there in 2000. They created a "Blue Line" for Israel to withdraw over similar to the "Green Line" that was created in 1949 because Israel has no border there. Israel still has no border with Lebanon. Israel only has say so borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the correspondence, pertaining to the 21st Century boundary issues of that time, the key parties to the official communication speak in the relative terms of the present day true reality.
> 
> They are speaking about the post-War boundary (1949); after the May 1948 establishment of the Jewish State.
> 
> Remember, you must excuse those of us that are not solely dedicated to seeing the Arab Palestinian Alternate Reality.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From your link:
> 
> The most important point is that it cast doubt on the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel and again adopted the principle of the “withdrawal line” rather than the “boundary line”​
> Even after the supposed creation of Israel in 1948, the 1949 Armistice Agreement (that Israel signed) called that the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. I have seen nothing that changes the status of that border.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is not you that has to recognize the 'international boundary."  BUT, if the Lebanese want to enforce the integrity and sovereignty, then they must have some common understanding as to where that territorial boundary is --- created.

The question was:  Is there a boundary between Lebanon and Israel? → or → Is there a boundary between Lebanon and Palestine?  Clearly, the question most important to the Lebanese of the 21st Century is the question of separation between Lebanese and the Israelis.

To speak of the Palestinians and illusionary boundaries that they do not maintain, do not control, and never have controlled, → is serves no useful purpose at all, other to keep an ever dwindling number of hopeless Arab Palestinians trying desperately to make a sound argument that sometime between the transition from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration → to → the territory to which the Mandate applied, the Arab Palestinians took control of territory.

Honestly, ALL the immediately adjacent nations have already come to grips with Israel, where it is, and what they have effective control over.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.


Not as a fully sovereign state though.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Argentina with AHED TAMIMI.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  _et al,_

Yes, our friend "Shusha" presses-out a couple very important points.  But while the Arab Palestinians are forever looking backwards, they miss present day opportunities as their Geo-political situation is slowly eroding away. 

In a Treatise Experiment ⇒ the first test is in the determination as to the meaning of state sovereignty.  
When the Arab Palestinian seeks to redefine the relationship between Palestinian Entity (West Bank + Gaza Strip) and the State of Israel by means of a compact leading to independence, self-government and full sovereignty ⇒ what does that mean?

•  Does independence imply self-government?
•  Does self-government imply sovereignty?​
Actually, the Arab Palestinians have never actually described their conception.  They keep arguing about occupation and the oppression they are under; yet make no attempt to acquire international peace and security and the development of friendly relations and co-operation between nations.   They have not been able to demonstrate that they can even make a hand-off of power and authority from one head of state to new elected leader.  They do not even have the ability to establish, through what self-governing institutions they do have, civil law enforcement, recognized by the people and able to maintain order and peace.


_As the Arab Palestinians take account of their political aspirations as a people, 
can they justify their abuse of assistance rendered them in the development 
of their free political and self-governing institutions?
---------------------------------------------------------------
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. 
Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase._​
In over a century, there has been very little evidence of the Arab Palestinian yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world.  _(28 June 1919 →)_



Shusha said:


> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.


*(COMMENT)*

Actually, I think this is quite profound _(having or showing great knowledge or insight)_.

There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.
She can come into existence at anytime.
___________________________________Shusha, 2018_​A "right of" is not granted.  You already possess it and it cannot be taken from you.  When the Arab Palestinian says that they "have the right to _→_ territorial integrity and self-determination" they are not saying anything useful.  The "right to" territorial integrity presupposes that you have territory to have integrity over.  Similarly, the Arab Palestinian has the "right of" _→ _Self-Determination.  If the greatest desire of the Arab Palestinian people is to be the personality seen in the exemplar to when you open the encyclopedia to:  terrorist -- there is your picture.  If - in over a hundred years, your heroine of the day is a 14 year old female juvenile delinquent famous for crossed the line to abusive and violent behavior towards police; then the Arab Palestinians do not take very much stock in themselves.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> To speak of the Palestinians and illusionary boundaries that they do not maintain, do not control, and never have controlled,


Occupying powers control but that does not negate the Palestinian's rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Actually, the Arab Palestinians have never actually described their conception. They keep arguing about occupation and the oppression they are under; yet make no attempt to acquire international peace and security and the development of friendly relations and co-operation between nations.


Yes they do. Its called BDS.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> If - in over a hundred years, your heroine of the day is a 14 year old female juvenile delinquent famous for crossed the line to abusive and violent behavior towards police;


They are not police. They are foreign occupying forces.


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as a fully sovereign state though.
Click to expand...


Why not?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as a fully sovereign state though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...

Military occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh, my. The “Plight of the poor, oppressed welfare fraud society”


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 James Beard semifinalists: Bay Area women dominate Best Chef West list*

Reem Assil, chef at Reem’s California in Oakland, is new to the Best Chef West list.






Among the new additions to the Best Chef West list are 2017 Chronicle Rising Star Chef *Reem Assil* (Reem’s California, Oakland) who is getting her first James Beard nod less than a year after opening the doors to her namesake bakery in Oakland’s Fruitvale neighborhood.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...ts-Bay-Area-women-12617010.php#photo-12742586


----------



## Hollie

Hamas tells Nikki Haley: Your peace plan is ‘worthless’

*After US diplomat says proposal nearing completion, Gaza-based terror groups vow to thwart American efforts*
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH 23 February 2018, 8:28 pm  7






The usual bluster coming from misfits in goofy ski masks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yes, the question of "rights 'vs' obligations 'vs' entitlements" ⇒



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To speak of the Palestinians and illusionary boundaries that they do not maintain, do not control, and never have controlled,
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying powers control but that does not negate the Palestinian's rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Any "right" the Arab Palestinians have - are granted to the Israeli as well...  (*Part I - CCPR*)


The Arab Palestinian "Right to Self-Determination, _and all other rights_) does NOT impose an obligation on the part of any other sovereignty; including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel.  

The Rights of the Arab Palestinian may not interfere with the Rights of the Israeli.
The Arab Palestinian has no Right to impose an obligation on - or - demand an entitlement of Israel.

Just as the Arab Palestinian has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development → so it is the case that Israel has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  Israel _(like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt)_ has no obligation to forfeit any of its benefits → based on a claim derived by any right held by the Arab Palestinian.

There is NO right to self-defense _(security of the nation)_ in the CCPR _(in fact, except for Article 14, the issue of self-defense is not even raised)_.  That right is derivative from Articles 2 and 51 of the UN Charter; although most Common and Customary Law take it as an unarguable truth. 

The Arab Palestinians have NO right to prolong a conflict over territory the Israelis established control over from the Jordanians → and → subsequently abandon by the Jordanians → in favor of leaving the territory in the effective control by the Israelis.  And the Israelis have no obligation to surrender the territory to a leadership with the threat of armed conflict and jihad on the table.

"No single answer exists for resolving the intractable RIGHT VS. RIGHT dilemmas;
however, the RESOLUTION PRINCIPLES PRIME provides ways to handle 
and resolve colliding rights. Resolution is critical, because getting stuck and 
standing still for too long is dangerous and may be fatal to your efforts."
(The Primes Solve any Problem:  Right 'vs' Right)​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, the question of "rights 'vs' obligations 'vs' entitlements" ⇒
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To speak of the Palestinians and illusionary boundaries that they do not maintain, do not control, and never have controlled,
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying powers control but that does not negate the Palestinian's rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any "right" the Arab Palestinians have - are granted to the Israeli as well...  (*Part I - CCPR*)
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian "Right to Self-Determination, _and all other rights_) does NOT impose an obligation on the part of any other sovereignty; including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel.
> 
> The Rights of the Arab Palestinian may not interfere with the Rights of the Israeli.
> The Arab Palestinian has no Right to impose an obligation on - or - demand an entitlement of Israel.
> 
> Just as the Arab Palestinian has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development → so it is the case that Israel has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  Israel _(like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt)_ has no obligation to forfeit any of its benefits → based on a claim derived by any right held by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> There is NO right to self-defense _(security of the nation)_ in the CCPR _(in fact, except for Article 14, the issue of self-defense is not even raised)_.  That right is derivative from Articles 2 and 51 of the UN Charter; although most Common and Customary Law take it as an unarguable truth.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have NO right to prolong a conflict over territory the Israelis established control over from the Jordanians → and → subsequently abandon by the Jordanians → in favor of leaving the territory in the effective control by the Israelis.  And the Israelis have no obligation to surrender the territory to a leadership with the threat of armed conflict and jihad on the table.
> 
> "No single answer exists for resolving the intractable RIGHT VS. RIGHT dilemmas;
> however, the RESOLUTION PRINCIPLES PRIME provides ways to handle
> and resolve colliding rights. Resolution is critical, because getting stuck and
> standing still for too long is dangerous and may be fatal to your efforts."
> (The Primes Solve any Problem:  Right 'vs' Right)​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where do you get all that crap from your link? Could you be more specific?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Strange. Valentine’s Day is one of those evil, infidel holidays. 



*"Palestine is My Valentine," PA Security Forces spokesman erases all of Israel - PMW Bulletins

"Palestine is My Valentine"

Spokesman of PA Security Forces promotes 
map of "Palestine" that erases all of Israel*







By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Official Spokesman of the PA Security Forces Adnan Al-Damiri exploited the occasion of Valentine's Day to promote the Palestinian Authority's map of "Palestine" that presents all of Israel as "Palestine" together with the PA areas. In Al-Damiri's Valentine version of the map, "Palestine" was made out of hearts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, the question of "rights 'vs' obligations 'vs' entitlements" ⇒
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> To speak of the Palestinians and illusionary boundaries that they do not maintain, do not control, and never have controlled,
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying powers control but that does not negate the Palestinian's rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any "right" the Arab Palestinians have - are granted to the Israeli as well...  (*Part I - CCPR*)
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian "Right to Self-Determination, _and all other rights_) does NOT impose an obligation on the part of any other sovereignty; including Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel.
> 
> The Rights of the Arab Palestinian may not interfere with the Rights of the Israeli.
> The Arab Palestinian has no Right to impose an obligation on - or - demand an entitlement of Israel.
> 
> Just as the Arab Palestinian has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development → so it is the case that Israel has the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  Israel _(like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt)_ has no obligation to forfeit any of its benefits → based on a claim derived by any right held by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> There is NO right to self-defense _(security of the nation)_ in the CCPR _(in fact, except for Article 14, the issue of self-defense is not even raised)_.  That right is derivative from Articles 2 and 51 of the UN Charter; although most Common and Customary Law take it as an unarguable truth.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have NO right to prolong a conflict over territory the Israelis established control over from the Jordanians → and → subsequently abandon by the Jordanians → in favor of leaving the territory in the effective control by the Israelis.  And the Israelis have no obligation to surrender the territory to a leadership with the threat of armed conflict and jihad on the table.
> 
> "No single answer exists for resolving the intractable RIGHT VS. RIGHT dilemmas;
> however, the RESOLUTION PRINCIPLES PRIME provides ways to handle
> and resolve colliding rights. Resolution is critical, because getting stuck and
> standing still for too long is dangerous and may be fatal to your efforts."
> (The Primes Solve any Problem:  Right 'vs' Right)​Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where do you get all that crap from your link? Could you be more specific?
Click to expand...


It’s actually hilarious to watch as you get flusterd and flummoxed.


----------



## Hollie

Mo’ money, Mo’ money....

Oh, wait.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*San Francisco*


----------



## Hollie

The Islamic terrorist welfare fraud has hit a bump in the road, or, maybe it has run over a Hamas terrorist in a ski mask.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE CHILDREN OF AIDA REFUGEE CAMP*

**


----------



## Hollie

Happy welfare from The Great Satan™️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mahmoud al-Kurd from Gaza was announced today at Dar al-Kalima University College of Arts and Culture the winner of the Karimeh Abboud Photography Award with this work entitled “Perhaps the most beautiful memories are those of a place.” Unfortunately Mohammad was not granted a permit by the Israeli authorities to come to Bethlehem to receive his award. Nevertheless, we were able to connect via skype. His immediate reaction for bring the winner of this year competition “This is the best news in 2017.”


----------



## Hollie

There’s just no pleasing Islamic terrorists welfare cheats. 

I’d expect some major sucking up from these people with a lot more “Oh, how can we help you, help us”. What a bunch of ungrateful third-worlders’ with a sense of welfare fraud entitlement.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mahmoud al-Kurd from Gaza was announced today at Dar al-Kalima University College of Arts and Culture the winner of the Karimeh Abboud Photography Award with this work entitled “Perhaps the most beautiful memories are those of a place.” Unfortunately Mohammad was not granted a permit by the Israeli authorities to come to Bethlehem to receive his award. Nevertheless, we were able to connect via skype. His immediate reaction for bring the winner of this year competition “This is the best news in 2017.”




Strange that Islamics decided not to show Arabs-Moslems pushing their children into the war zone with explosives strapped to their chests.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Well that’s pretty typical.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel cannot bomb BDS.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel cannot bomb BDS.
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. You’re just incensed when your Joooooo hating heroes are exposed as such.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Well, to be honest and in answer to your question, I went to school.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the question of "rights 'vs' obligations 'vs' entitlements" ⇒
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all that crap from your link? Could you be more specific?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

*∆  Difference Between Rights and Obligation •*

✪  The key difference between rights and obligation is that:

•  Rights refer to what we gain,

√  Rights have to be viewed as individual entitlements such as freedom.​
• Obligations refer to what we should do.

√  Obligations, on the other hand, are our responsibilities as citizens or individuals of the society.​
I think I've tried to explain this before.  

You have a RIGHT to own a home.   

I cannot stop you from owning a home.
BUT I have NO OBLIGATION to give you my home.
No one is even obligated to assist you in acquiring a home.
*∆  Both Rights and Obligations •*
UN OHCHR

Human rights entail both rights and obligations. States assume obligations and duties under international law to respect, to protect and to fulfil human rights. The obligation to respect means that States must refrain from interfering with or curtailing the enjoyment of human rights. The obligation to protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses. The obligation to fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights. At the individual level, while we are entitled our human rights, we should also respect the human rights of others. 

International Human Rights Law

✪  Israel assume obligations and duties: 

•  Obligation to respect means that Israel must refrain from interfering with Arab Palestinian Rights.
•  Obligation to respect means that Israel must refrain from curtailing the enjoyment of Arab Palestinian rights.​
✪  Israel assume responsibility for protection:

•  Obligation to protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses.
•  Obligation to fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights.​
Some fundamental human rights norms enjoy universal protection by customary international law across all boundaries and civilizations.  Israel has the responsibility under Article 43 - Hague Regulation to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, _unless absolutely prevented_, the laws in force in the country."  

Sabotage (as applied to the Arab - Palestinian Conflict) is the act of hampering, deliberating subverting, or hurting the efforts of Israel in the accomplishment of its Article 43 duties. It is most often an issue in the context of military law, when a person attempts to thwart the Article 43 effort, or when disgruntled Arab Palestinians commit an offence which:

✪  Is when the Arab - Palestinian solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.
✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian is guilty of espionage. 
✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian serious commits acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian serious commits intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
There is a fiduciary responsibility for the State of Israel to provide the necessary protection against the threatened Arab Palestinian attacks against the citizens and to take the necessary action to thwart hostile action that challenges the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the State of Israel.

Just as the unilateral withdraw from the Gaza Strip proved, there is no reasonable expectation that such a unilateral withdraw from the West Bank will be in the "best interest" of Israel.  The Arab Palestinians have demonstrated that they represent an unreasonable risk to let run unsupervised in the local area of the region.

Just One Mans Opinion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, to be honest and in answer to your question, I went to school.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the question of "rights 'vs' obligations 'vs' entitlements" ⇒
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get all that crap from your link? Could you be more specific?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *∆  Difference Between Rights and Obligation •*
> 
> ✪  The key difference between rights and obligation is that:
> 
> •  Rights refer to what we gain,
> 
> √  Rights have to be viewed as individual entitlements such as freedom.​• Obligations refer to what we should do.
> 
> √  Obligations, on the other hand, are our responsibilities as citizens or individuals of the society.​
> I think I've tried to explain this before.
> 
> You have a RIGHT to own a home.
> 
> I cannot stop you from owning a home.
> BUT I have NO OBLIGATION to give you my home.
> No one is even obligated to assist you in acquiring a home.
> *∆  Both Rights and Obligations •*
> UN OHCHR
> 
> Human rights entail both rights and obligations. States assume obligations and duties under international law to respect, to protect and to fulfil human rights. The obligation to respect means that States must refrain from interfering with or curtailing the enjoyment of human rights. The obligation to protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses. The obligation to fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights. At the individual level, while we are entitled our human rights, we should also respect the human rights of others.
> 
> International Human Rights Law
> ✪  Israel assume obligations and duties:
> 
> •  Obligation to respect means that Israel must refrain from interfering with Arab Palestinian Rights.
> •  Obligation to respect means that Israel must refrain from curtailing the enjoyment of Arab Palestinian rights.​✪  Israel assume responsibility for protection:
> 
> •  Obligation to protect requires States to protect individuals and groups against human rights abuses.
> •  Obligation to fulfil means that States must take positive action to facilitate the enjoyment of basic human rights.​
> Some fundamental human rights norms enjoy universal protection by customary international law across all boundaries and civilizations.  Israel has the responsibility under Article 43 - Hague Regulation to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, _unless absolutely prevented_, the laws in force in the country."
> 
> Sabotage (as applied to the Arab - Palestinian Conflict) is the act of hampering, deliberating subverting, or hurting the efforts of Israel in the accomplishment of its Article 43 duties. It is most often an issue in the context of military law, when a person attempts to thwart the Article 43 effort, or when disgruntled Arab Palestinians commit an offence which:
> 
> ✪  Is when the Arab - Palestinian solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.
> ✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian is guilty of espionage.
> ✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian serious commits acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
> ✪  In cases where the Arab - Palestinian serious commits intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
> There is a fiduciary responsibility for the State of Israel to provide the necessary protection against the threatened Arab Palestinian attacks against the citizens and to take the necessary action to thwart hostile action that challenges the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the State of Israel.
> 
> Just as the unilateral withdraw from the Gaza Strip proved, there is no reasonable expectation that such a unilateral withdraw from the West Bank will be in the "best interest" of Israel.  The Arab Palestinians have demonstrated that they represent an unreasonable risk to let run unsupervised in the local area of the region.
> 
> Just One Mans Opinion.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel is on the wrong side of history in many places here.


RoccoR said:


> Israel has the responsibility under Article 43 - Hague Regulation to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, _unless absolutely prevented_, the laws in force in the country."


Israel has never done this. Quite the opposite. And any blow back Israel gets for its violations, the liars in Israel call terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When his Mufti goes like this, .






Then when Arafat takes Your* (Tayysir Tamimi) *uncle to appoint him as an executioner of every Arab who sells land to Jews:






One HAS to oppose those vile Jew haters.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


I thought I would watch the Dershoputz video. I haven't had a good laugh all day.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



 Extradict her to her family in Qatar, where she can live on a Juderhein land all she likes.

Emir of Qatar Thani Al-Tamim :








The tribe of *Banu Tamim* (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎) or *Bani Tamim* (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

Q.What does she and her tribe do on foreign lands?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extradict her to her family in Qatar, where she can live on a Juderhein land all she likes.
> 
> Emir of Qatar Thani Al-Tamim :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of *Banu Tamim* (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎) or *Bani Tamim* (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Q.What does she and her tribe do on foreign lands?
Click to expand...



There're always alternatives and places where there're no Jooos to boil Your blood...and who knows You might remember what HOME LOOKS LIKE,

Dhabi Recruitment -VACANCIES AL TAMIMI & COMPANY


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




THAT became antisemitic the moment Arab Palestinians decided to turn CHILDREN into combatants.  When they began to teach their CHILDREN to be armed attackers in order to prevent Jews from responding to violent acts.  When they decided it was more important to make Jews appear evil than it was to safeguard the lives and well-being of their CHILDREN. FFS.


----------



## Shusha

You think its funny that children are taught to be combatants?  You think its funny that children are put on the front lines instead of being kept safe at home?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Well, ⇒ I am not going to allow you to drag me off point.   What I see is the people of Israel defending
against the Arab Palestinian intent on denying the Jewish people the "Right of Self-Determination."  They are desperately trying to dress-up anti-Israeli campaign to make it appear to be a defense against an invading Army. 



P F Tinmore said:


> They are not police. They are foreign occupying forces.


*(COMMENT)*

You can call it what you want.  You can fantasize all you want.  The fact of the matter is that half a century ago (1968), the Palestinian National Charter was adopted, and established as policy that Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

And in less than 6 month later, two Palestinian Terrorist attack an El Al Flight (253) in the Ramp in Athens; an international act of terrorism.  By 1972 (≤ 4 years later) the  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) hijack Lufthansa Flight 649 and hold tit for ransom of $5M; four Palestinian (Sayeret Matkal) terrorist Hijack Sabena Flight 571 on route from Brussels to Israel; and then the PFLP participate in the Massacre at Lodi Airport. Later that same year, the Palestinian Terrorist of Black September hold an open attack on Israeli Olympic Team in Munich.

In 1988 the Palestinians Declare Independence and a major faction of the Arab Palestinians pledge: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad." Taking the position to support an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it.

Since the adoption of Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence → apparently valid still today, the Arab Palestinians have been trying to convince the world that they are peaceful people attempting to resist oppression.  In point of fact, they are Hostiles, trying to achieve through force and threats of violence → what they could not achieve through the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.



P F Tinmore said:


> Military occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinian DEMAND the ever strengthening of Security Measures in order that peace and security might be maintained; and that the International terrorist component to the Hostile Arab Palestinian suppressed from endangering the citizenry of the State of Israel.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is on the wrong side of history in many places here.


*(COMMENT)*

Whether the history was kind or unkind to the Arab Palestinians the Citizenry of Israel still have the right of self-determination as part of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Right (CCRP).

While the Arab Palestinians find justification in the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims; the Arab Palestinian must remember that there is a critical link between cultural development and the ever tightening of security measures to neutralize the attempts by Arab Palestinian to intimidate the population of Israel. (Excerpt ⇒ SG/SM/14764-SC/10883) "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts."



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has never done this. Quite the opposite. And any blow back Israel gets for its violations, the liars in Israel call terrorism.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel, like all countries, takes the necessary act required to insure the safety of its citizens and the protection of it sovereignty;  ⇒ exercising the principle under international law that Arab Palestinians should not attempt to promote secessionist movements or to use the threat of violence to achieve border changes to the territorial integrity of Israel. 

Israel has its own "right to self-determination" AND Israel will defend that "right."

That is quite different from the allegations and inferences that Israel is denying the Arab Palestinian people their "right."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ Shusha, _et al,_

I agree that most of the pro-Palestinian advocates seem to have these strange views.



Shusha said:


> You think its funny that children are taught to be combatants?  You think its funny that children are put on the front lines instead of being kept safe at home?


*(COMMENT)*

This is not so dissimilar (IMO) than that behavior exhibited by criminally active street gangs. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> When his Mufti goes like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then when Arafat takes Your* (Tayysir Tamimi) *uncle to appoint him as an executioner of every Arab who sells land to Jews:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One HAS to oppose those vile Jew haters.





P F Tinmore said:


> Even though the war was fought in Palestine, they were not a party to that war.



*Army of the Holy War*
Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni arrived in the Jerusalem sector in December 1947 and by March 1948 had about 128 men. He established his headquarters at Bir Zeit and started to conduct a blockade of Jerusalem by attacking the Jewish convoys to the city. Hasan Salama, with 950 men of the _Jihad_ and 228 irregulars, took responsibility for the operations in the Lydda and Ramle sectors, at the entry of the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road.[4][5]

The Army of the Holy War had over 50,000 Palestinian Arabs available for local defense but a force of only 5,000 to 10,000, both foreign fighters from Arab states and Palestinian Arab militiamen, available to be sent where needed during the Israel war of Independence.[6

Q.Again, who were not party to the war?


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as a fully sovereign state though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...

To prevent an existential threat to Israel.


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget, just because "Palestine" was not a sovereign State in 1922, or in 1948, or in 1983 or in 2000 or in 2012 or even entirely in 2018 -- this does not prohibit her from becoming one.  There is no NEED to "prove" that "Palestine" exists.  She can come into existence at anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as a fully sovereign state though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To prevent an existential threat to Israel.
Click to expand...


Ah. I take your meaning. We agree. Arab Palestine must not be permitted to achieve full sovereignty while they pose an existential threat to Israel. One of the requirements of sovereignty is to play nice in the sandbox.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You can call it what you want. You can fantasize all you want. The fact of the matter is that half a century ago (1968), the Palestinian National Charter was adopted, and established as policy that Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.


Palestine was occupied for 50 years by then.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Barghouti: Cambridge's Interference in BDS Event is 'Ludicrous'*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can call it what you want. You can fantasize all you want. The fact of the matter is that half a century ago (1968), the Palestinian National Charter was adopted, and established as policy that Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was occupied for 50 years by then.
Click to expand...


And this is backed up by a bunch of liberal slogan parrots?

Boy do Your arguments get desperate.

Then again Arabs shouldn't have helped the British occupy Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

The case of Ahed Tamimi is deeply disturbing, but not for the reasons you think - BICOM

The reality is far more disturbing. Ahed’s family has a long history of involvement in terrorism. Her aunt was part of the terrorist cell that carried out a suicide bombing in a pizza restaurant in Jerusalem in August 2001 that killed 15 people, including 7 children, and wounded 130. Most of her direct and extended family have been convicted of terrorism offences.

Ahed grew up in an environment that normalised, glorified and celebrated brutal violence against Israelis. Her parents decided long ago to deploy their young children in the service of their dangerous games. From a very young age Ahed was sent out to take part in violent attacks on Israeli soldiers as her parents encouraged her and filmed her. As a young child, she was in no position to consent to being used in this way and the constant filming and grooming to perform violent attacks, is nothing short of abusive.

Instead of shunning and condemning this abhorrent behaviour, a procession of journalists and activists has visited the Tamimi household to pay tribute. Before her arrest, a media circus followed her exploits with glee because she gave them the pictures they wanted.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Barghouti: Cambridge's Interference in BDS Event is 'Ludicrous'*
> 
> **


In other words BDS-holes' hate speech is threatened
when the moderator is not of their own group.

Barghouti is not careful about what he says.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

And this is were your half truths and slanted rhetoric confuses people.  Keeping in mind that today, this type of raw rhetoric is propaganda which is injected and likely to provoke  (may be even encourage) breach of the peace or violence.

(1968 - 50 = 1918)

From 1918 _(the Treaty of Mudros)_ → through → 1920 _(just after the San Remo Convention)_ the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine were applied → were first placed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and then placed under a Civil Administration (1920 thru 1948).

During the period of Civil Administration, Palestine was a legal entity ⇒ but *not* a sovereign state or self-governing. Palestine was a territory administered under mandate by the United Kingdom; acting as the Government of Palestine.  The Government of Palestine did not consider British Administration supported by British Forces as actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.  The Forces were in support of the Civil Administration.  Thus the Government of Palestine was not set within a legally defined set of condition that met the International definition of "occupation."

Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state - The Hague Regulations, 18 October 1907:


*Article 42:* 

✪  Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
✪  The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​This is still the legal criteria in force today; over a 100 years later.

The period between 1949 and 1968 _(≈ two decades)_ the Middle East Region - centered on Tel Aviv was in abeyance under the Armistice Arrangements; contemplating a permanent solution.

In 1968, Israeli Forces swept through the West Bank in pursuit of Jordanian Forces that opened indirect fire into Israel.  The period between 1968 and 1988 _(≈ two decades)_ Israel Occupied Jordanian Sovereign Territory; not Arab Palestinian autonomous territory.  In 1988, Jordan abandon their sovereign holdings of the West Bank and Jerusalem into the only government having effective control:  Israel.  There was no effective government other than Israel; and no active claim by the previous sovereign.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can call it what you want. You can fantasize all you want. The fact of the matter is that half a century ago (1968), the Palestinian National Charter was adopted, and established as policy that Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was occupied for 50 years by then.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.

This is a very crafty Arab Palestinian slight of hand.  It attempts to describe something as factual for the purpose of edification, to shield them from allegations it was an altered recount of reality for the purpose of  
inflaming dangerous and hostile emotions --- a form of incitement of hostile acts and repudiating attempts at the justification or glorification _ (apologie)_ of terrorist acts that may incite further terrorist acts.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.


No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.

However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.

Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*When Palestinian Refugees Tell Their Own Stories: The Last Earth by Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *When Palestinian Refugees Tell Their Own Stories: The Last Earth by Ramzy Baroud*
> 
> **



Arabs-Moslems who are three generations removed from your invented “country of Pal’istan” are not “refugees”.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
Click to expand...


That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
Click to expand...

Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are a hoot. 

You wrote:

“It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”

Link?


You wrote:

“Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence.



Exactly.  Thus, the achievement of independence by the people for whom that independence was called for can not possibly be seen as an occupation.  It is the fulfillment of the Mandate.  The Mandate achieved its goal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Thus, the achievement of independence by the people for whom that independence was called for can not possibly be seen as an occupation.  It is the fulfillment of the Mandate.  The Mandate achieved its goal.
Click to expand...

The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.



The Jewish people, by rights of their long history in the land, were (are) considered by the international community to be the local population.  Which is right and fair.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people, by rights of their long history in the land, were (are) considered by the international community to be the local population.  Which is right and fair.
Click to expand...

Pffft, Israeli talking points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This suggestion that the territory under discussion was under near continuous occupation by foreign forces is a misrepresentation of the historical record.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Thus, the achievement of independence by the people for whom that independence was called for can not possibly be seen as an occupation.  It is the fulfillment of the Mandate.  The Mandate achieved its goal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.
Click to expand...


Another of your re-written versions of history.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people, by rights of their long history in the land, were (are) considered by the international community to be the local population.  Which is right and fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft, Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Perfectly valid Israeli talking points.  Your entire premise, and the Arab Palestinian premise, is that the Jewish people have no rights to self-governance in their historic homeland.  That stance is morally and legally invalid.  By any objective measure.

From a legal perspective, the Mandate for Palestine defined the local people for whom advice and administration was to be provided -- the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't. The LoN Covenant called for the Mandates to render administrative assistance and advice to bring the people to independence. When Britain established its Mandate in Transjordan, it withdrew its troops leaving behind a few advisors. This was in line with the LoN Covenant. You don't need an army to render administrative assistance and advise.
> 
> However, when Britain established its Mandate in Palestine it maintained its military presence. It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence. Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun. To Britain, the change to a Mandate was simply a name change. It still ruled Palestine by military force.
> 
> Of course, the Palestinians resisted this occupation and they still do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.
Click to expand...

That is why you know so little.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The LoN Covenant was referring to the local population not the colonial settlers out of Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people, by rights of their long history in the land, were (are) considered by the international community to be the local population.  Which is right and fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft, Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perfectly valid Israeli talking points.  Your entire premise, and the Arab Palestinian premise, is that the Jewish people have no rights to self-governance in their historic homeland.  That stance is morally and legally invalid.  By any objective measure.
> 
> From a legal perspective, the Mandate for Palestine defined the local people for whom advice and administration was to be provided -- the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

That is under the unsupportable assumption that the colonial settlers out of Europe actually had ancestors from Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> That is under the unsupportable assumption that the colonial settlers out of Europe actually had ancestors from Palestine.



Well, no.  That is YOUR unsupportable assumption that the criteria for self-determination is based on some vague notion of ancestry which you apply only to the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is under the unsupportable assumption that the colonial settlers out of Europe actually had ancestors from Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  That is YOUR unsupportable assumption that the criteria for self-determination is based on some vague notion of ancestry which you apply only to the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

Self determination applies to the people of the place not to the people from someplace else.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s simply a lot of presuppositional bias on your part.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why you know so little.
Click to expand...


I do find it comical that you are forced to retreat to your usual tactics of sidestepping and juvenile banter when you make unsupportable statements.

Your conspiracy theories are at odds with the facts you refuse to grasp. 

You wrote:

“It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”

Nonsense. “It”, (the Mandatory), clearly did have the intention to bring independence to two entities. It was the Arabs-Moslems who refused to participate. As much as you want to re-write history, it’s just a fact that the Arabs-Moslems chose intransigence and violence, consistent with Arab-Moslem history.


You wrote:

“Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”

Nonsense. It was in 1920 when the British civil administration assumed its role. 

Of course, all of the above has been presented to you many times before. You just have a need to ignore the facts as a way to placate an emotional requirement to fit history into the alternate reality you live in.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is under the unsupportable assumption that the colonial settlers out of Europe actually had ancestors from Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  That is YOUR unsupportable assumption that the criteria for self-determination is based on some vague notion of ancestry which you apply only to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self determination applies to the people of the place not to the people from someplace else.
Click to expand...


The Jewish people were “in the place” at the time they implemented self-determination. 

There was no such place as your invented “country of Pal’istan” and the  place formerly known as the Ottoman Empire was declared deceased about two decades prior to the State of Israel. 

Shirley, you have a YouTube video you can cut and paste?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you did not refute anything. Just a gripe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why you know so little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do find it comical that you are forced to retreat to your usual tactics of sidestepping and juvenile banter when you make unsupportable statements.
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are at odds with the facts you refuse to grasp.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Nonsense. “It”, (the Mandatory), clearly did have the intention to bring independence to two entities. It was the Arabs-Moslems who refused to participate. As much as you want to re-write history, it’s just a fact that the Arabs-Moslems chose intransigence and violence, consistent with Arab-Moslem history.
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Nonsense. It was in 1920 when the British civil administration assumed its role.
> 
> Of course, all of the above has been presented to you many times before. You just have a need to ignore the facts as a way to placate an emotional requirement to fit history into the alternate reality you live in.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Of course, all of the above has been presented to you many times before.


And it is still Israeli bullshit as it has always been.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why you know so little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do find it comical that you are forced to retreat to your usual tactics of sidestepping and juvenile banter when you make unsupportable statements.
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are at odds with the facts you refuse to grasp.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Nonsense. “It”, (the Mandatory), clearly did have the intention to bring independence to two entities. It was the Arabs-Moslems who refused to participate. As much as you want to re-write history, it’s just a fact that the Arabs-Moslems chose intransigence and violence, consistent with Arab-Moslem history.
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Nonsense. It was in 1920 when the British civil administration assumed its role.
> 
> Of course, all of the above has been presented to you many times before. You just have a need to ignore the facts as a way to placate an emotional requirement to fit history into the alternate reality you live in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And it is still Israeli bullshit as it has always been.
Click to expand...


You can’t rely on Press TV YouTube videos to address your lack of historical (not hysterical) facts.

Recognizing your detachment from reality is a first step you need to be willing to take.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As expected, you retreat to spam when your statements are unsupportable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is why you know so little.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do find it comical that you are forced to retreat to your usual tactics of sidestepping and juvenile banter when you make unsupportable statements.
> 
> Your conspiracy theories are at odds with the facts you refuse to grasp.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “It had no intention of bringing the people up to speed for independence.”
> 
> Nonsense. “It”, (the Mandatory), clearly did have the intention to bring independence to two entities. It was the Arabs-Moslems who refused to participate. As much as you want to re-write history, it’s just a fact that the Arabs-Moslems chose intransigence and violence, consistent with Arab-Moslem history.
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> “Its plan was to impose a foreign agenda on Palestine at the point of a gun.”
> 
> Nonsense. It was in 1920 when the British civil administration assumed its role.
> 
> Of course, all of the above has been presented to you many times before. You just have a need to ignore the facts as a way to placate an emotional requirement to fit history into the alternate reality you live in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And it is still Israeli bullshit as it has always been.
Click to expand...


I've seen an 8 yo express better arguments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Update.*
1,732,870 have signed. Let's get to 2,000,000
Support coming in from virtually every country in the world.

Help free my daughter


----------



## rylah

#Ahed Tamimi






Erdoğan invites a girl wearing army uniform to scene and tells her:
 
"she has the flag in her pocket, *inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr,* she is ready for anything, isn't she?"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Update.*
> 1,732,870 have signed. Let's get to 2,000,000
> Support coming in from virtually every country in the world.
> 
> Help free my daughter



The sooner she is out, the sooner you and you fellow co-religionists can exploit her for cheap propaganda purposes.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Self determination applies to the people of the place not to the people from someplace else.



But that was the whole point of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine -- acknowledging that the Jewish people ARE the people of the place.  Acknowledging that if you forcibly remove people from a place that doesn't stop them from being people of the place.


----------



## Shusha

The problem is that terms like "people of the place" have no objective meaning.  It can mean whatever you want it to mean.  And what you want it to mean is different when speaking of the Jewish people vs. speaking of the Arab peoples.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> The problem is that terms like "people of the place" have no objective meaning.  It can mean whatever you want it to mean.  And what you want it to mean is different when speaking of the Jewish people vs. speaking of the Arab peoples.


The Palestinians were the legal citizens by international and domestic law. The people of the place.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is under the unsupportable assumption that the colonial settlers out of Europe actually had ancestors from Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  That is YOUR unsupportable assumption that the criteria for self-determination is based on some vague notion of ancestry which you apply only to the Jewish people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self determination applies to the people of the place not to the people from someplace else.
Click to expand...


Agreed, why should it apply to Egyptian soldiers brought by Ali Pasha?
Or Bedouins brought by Faisal?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were the legal citizens by international and domestic law. The people of the place.



Israelis, being legal citizens by international and domestic law, ARE the people of the place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the legal citizens by international and domestic law. The people of the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis, being legal citizens by international and domestic law, ARE the people of the place.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the legal citizens by international and domestic law. The people of the place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis, being legal citizens by international and domestic law, ARE the people of the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Do You have anyone else representing the Jews of Palestine on a state level?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



For the subsidized health care we pay each 2 month. and it's not subsidized by the US.
We don't receive FREE 4 year education.

Otherwise where's mine?! And why do most Israelis work to pay for their studies and get in debt?

 #BDS-HOLES LIES

Q. So beyond that, which other govt. represents the Jews of Palestine?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Maybe this will help.

*PA claims it got no US aid in 2016. In fact, State Dept. gave Palestinians $357 million. And that’s not all


How much welfare fraud money is the Great Satan obligated to shower Islamic terrorists with?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that terms like "people of the place" have no objective meaning.  It can mean whatever you want it to mean.  And what you want it to mean is different when speaking of the Jewish people vs. speaking of the Arab peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were the legal citizens by international and domestic law. The people of the place.
Click to expand...


 I can’t help but be impressed by someone who issues their legal opinions based upon PressTV YouTube videos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
Click to expand...

Let the refugees go back home.

Problem solved.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let the refugees go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
Click to expand...


Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.

Two and three generations of Arabs-Moslems born and raised outside of your invented “country of Pally’land” are not refugees.

Problem is solved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let the refugees go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.
> 
> Two and three generations of Arabs-Moslems born and raised outside of your invented “country of Pally’land” are not refugees.
> 
> Problem is solved.
Click to expand...

But Jews can "go back" after 2000 years?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let the refugees go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.
> 
> Two and three generations of Arabs-Moslems born and raised outside of your invented “country of Pally’land” are not refugees.
> 
> Problem is solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Jews can "go back" after 2000 years?
Click to expand...


They never left. Many were driven out as a reusult of Islamist ideology and the Islamist settler colonial project but the Jewish people had a presence long before the invention of Islamism. 

Turkish and Arabian invaders / colonists are somehow “native”?


----------



## Hollie

As if cutting off funding for Islamic terrorism is ever a bad idea. 


Why cutting US aid to the Palestinian Authority is not a bad idea


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let the refugees go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.
> 
> Two and three generations of Arabs-Moslems born and raised outside of your invented “country of Pally’land” are not refugees.
> 
> Problem is solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Jews can "go back" after 2000 years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never left. Many were driven out as a reusult of Islamist ideology and the Islamist settler colonial project but the Jewish people had a presence long before the invention of Islamism.
> 
> Turkish and Arabian invaders / colonists are somehow “native”?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians never left either. They are still there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian historian Nur Masalha*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could contrast that with the dollar value the US has contributed the UNRWA welfare fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> Let the refugees go back home.
> 
> Problem solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another of your silly cut and paste slogans.
> 
> Two and three generations of Arabs-Moslems born and raised outside of your invented “country of Pally’land” are not refugees.
> 
> Problem is solved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Jews can "go back" after 2000 years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never left. Many were driven out as a reusult of Islamist ideology and the Islamist settler colonial project but the Jewish people had a presence long before the invention of Islamism.
> 
> Turkish and Arabian invaders / colonists are somehow “native”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians never left either. They are still there.
Click to expand...


Turkish and Arabian settler colonists have magically become Pal’istanians? Actually, no. Turkish and Arabian settler colonists were invaders who settled / colonized the geographic area sometimes called palestine. 

You should take the time to learn terms and definitions from somewhere other than PressTV YouTube videos.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian historian Nur Masalha*



The Arab-Islamist invading gee-hadists really did nakba the crap out of the Arab-Islamist settler colonists.

You can’t argue with the will of Allah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid*

*



*

Israeli soldiers arrested 10 young Palestinians in a pre-dawn raid on the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh early Monday, including Mohammed Tamimi, the cousin of Ahed Tamimi whom soldiers shot in the head with a rubber bullet several months ago, shattering his skull.

Mohammed is currently awaiting surgery to reconstruct the part of his skull that was removed. The Israeli army released him Monday afternoon, according to Gaby Lasky, Ahed and Nariman’s attorney.

*Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid | +972 Magazine*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Israeli soldiers arrested 10 young Palestinians in a pre-dawn raid on the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh early Monday, including Mohammed Tamimi, the cousin of Ahed Tamimi whom soldiers shot in the head with a rubber bullet several months ago, shattering his skull.
> 
> Mohammed is currently awaiting surgery to reconstruct the part of his skull that was removed. The Israeli army released him Monday afternoon, according to Gaby Lasky, Ahed and Nariman’s attorney.
> 
> *Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid | +972 Magazine*



Are you hoping to sign him up for the generous arab-Islamist “Martyr” program?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Israeli soldiers arrested 10 young Palestinians in a pre-dawn raid on the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh early Monday, including Mohammed Tamimi, the cousin of Ahed Tamimi whom soldiers shot in the head with a rubber bullet several months ago, shattering his skull.
> 
> Mohammed is currently awaiting surgery to reconstruct the part of his skull that was removed. The Israeli army released him Monday afternoon, according to Gaby Lasky, Ahed and Nariman’s attorney.
> 
> *Months after shattering his skull, IDF arrests teen in pre-dawn raid | +972 Magazine*



I've seen this story being pushed so much.


They produce videos of every confrontation and riot, 
but no proof of his incident?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Really, nothing to do with being into* this "**industry"?*


Erdogan: "she has the flag in her pocket, inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?"


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

There is a great difference between the IDF interdiction of insurgents, infiltrators and other unlawful combatants masquerading as protected persons → and that of the Border Police taking measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the preparation of any acts of terrorism.  It is also entirely endorsed by International Law [S/RES/1373 (2001)] for the police action necessary to deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens.



P F Tinmore said:


> Reference the facebook...


*(COMMENT)*

This is propaganda footage.  I watched the video twice.  I did not see any IDF.  I saw Police making Police Raids.  Often tactical apprehensions _(around the world)_ are done at night → improving the chances of success in the any person who participates in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or inciting and supporting terrorist acts.

This is hardly different from what action any of the 22 Members of the Arab League would take against suspects that design or or provoke --- encourage or threaten breaches of the peace, or committed with the aim of:

• seriously intimidating a population, or

• unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

• seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization,​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is a great difference between the IDF interdiction of insurgents, infiltrators and other unlawful combatants masquerading as protected persons → and that of the Border Police taking measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the preparation of any acts of terrorism.  It is also entirely endorsed by International Law [S/RES/1373 (2001)] for the police action necessary to deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reference the facebook...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is propaganda footage.  I watched the video twice.  I did not see any IDF.  I saw Police making Police Raids.  Often tactical apprehensions _(around the world)_ are done at night → improving the chances of success in the any person who participates in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or inciting and supporting terrorist acts.
> 
> This is hardly different from what action any of the 22 Members of the Arab League would take against suspects that design or or provoke --- encourage or threaten breaches of the peace, or committed with the aim of:
> 
> • seriously intimidating a population, or
> 
> • unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
> 
> • seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization,​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> This is propaganda footage. I watched the video twice. I did not see any IDF. I saw Police making Police Raids.


Same pile of shit - different swarm of flies. A distinction without a difference.


RoccoR said:


> It is also entirely endorsed by International Law [S/RES/1373 (2001)] for the police action necessary to deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens.


WTF are you talking about? Do you actually believe the crap you write?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> There is a great difference between the IDF interdiction of insurgents, infiltrators and other unlawful combatants masquerading as protected persons → and that of the Border Police taking measures to prevent and suppress, in their territories through all lawful means, the preparation of any acts of terrorism.  It is also entirely endorsed by International Law [S/RES/1373 (2001)] for the police action necessary to deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reference the facebook...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is propaganda footage.  I watched the video twice.  I did not see any IDF.  I saw Police making Police Raids.  Often tactical apprehensions _(around the world)_ are done at night → improving the chances of success in the any person who participates in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or inciting and supporting terrorist acts.
> 
> This is hardly different from what action any of the 22 Members of the Arab League would take against suspects that design or or provoke --- encourage or threaten breaches of the peace, or committed with the aim of:
> 
> • seriously intimidating a population, or
> 
> • unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
> 
> • seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization,​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is propaganda footage. I watched the video twice. I did not see any IDF. I saw Police making Police Raids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same pile of shit - different swarm of flies. A distinction without a difference.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is also entirely endorsed by International Law [S/RES/1373 (2001)] for the police action necessary to deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about? Do you actually believe the crap you write?
Click to expand...


I always get a chuckle from the saliva-slinging tirades you litter threads with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hatem Bazian: Palestine and a Muslim Theology of Liberation.*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Just another islamic fascist.



Sorry, Tinmore. No sharia paradise for you here in the Great Satan.


----------



## Hollie

Just another, very ordinary islamist misfit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hatem Bazian - Resistance: Combatting Oppression, Inspiring Action*

**


----------



## Hollie

Just another, ordinary Islamist misogynist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nerdeen Kiswani


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



They also say that islamics putting children in situations with the anticipation those children can be harmed is ugly and vile.

How really creepy that you use children to spread your message of hate.


----------



## rylah

*The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*


The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.

In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:

"It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.

Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.

According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



They also say:

*"She has the flag in her pocket,* inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?" - Erdogan 


What's wrong with You P F Tinmore  that You support this?!


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also say:
> 
> *"She has the flag in her pocket,* inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?" - Erdogan
> 
> 
> What's wrong with You P F Tinmore  that You support this?!
Click to expand...

You are just upset because Israel doesn't have anybody worth writing about.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.


Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also say:
> 
> *"She has the flag in her pocket,* inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?" - Erdogan
> 
> 
> What's wrong with You P F Tinmore  that You support this?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just upset because Israel doesn't have anybody worth writing about.
Click to expand...


That's creepier than most of your Islamist Pom Pom flailing for child abuse. I didn't think that was possible but you're sinking to new depths of mental and emotional illness.

But you're correct in one respect, Israelis dont have any of their children to write about as victims of a society that uses them as weapons of hate and derision.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
Click to expand...


Yet another of your goofy conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your goofy conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet another of your goofy conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


Your usual cut and paste slogan. I understand you use it because you get defensive when your efforts to use children as cheap war material is identified as ugly and vile.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They also say:
> 
> *"She has the flag in her pocket,* inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?" - Erdogan
> 
> 
> What's wrong with You P F Tinmore  that You support this?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just upset because Israel doesn't have anybody worth writing about.
Click to expand...


No I simply think that using a girl from an Arabian Tamimi tribe, as a symbol to claim land in Judea,
is one of the worst choices Arabs could make.

But then comes Erdogan and in his madness  exposes the* Young version of Ahed*, and does exactly what You just did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Examining the "Israel Has A Right to Defend Itself" Narrative*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
Click to expand...


Of course islamic terrorist governments have procedures for replacing dictators. Those procedures involve weapons and ammunition. That's the way of the world in much of islam'istan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Examining the "Israel Has A Right to Defend Itself" Narrative*
> 
> **



Another Pallywierd Studios Production.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course islamic terrorist governments have procedures for replacing dictators. Those procedures involve weapons and ammunition. That's the way of the world in much of islam'istan.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Examining the "Israel Has A Right to Defend Itself" Narrative*
> 
> **



Another one of Your hero #BDS-hole freaks


----------



## Hollie

*Examining the "Israel Has A Right to Defend Itself" *
*
*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The battle for succession in the PA is heating up*
> 
> 
> The "bomb" imposed by the Fatah secretary-general in the West Bank, Jibril Rajoub, in an interview with the BBC in Arabic on February 17, continues to generate repercussions in the Arab world and in the territories.
> 
> In the interview, Jibril Rajoub attacked Egypt for its support of his bitter political rival Muhammad Dahlan and said:
> 
> "It is not appropriate for Egypt to adopt Mohammed Dahlan, he was expelled from the Fatah movement, and the Egyptians know why they were part of this process. It is not an honor for Egypt as a country to support someone who is against the Palestinian problem and its people.
> 
> Jibril Rajoub's relations with Egypt are bad. About a year ago, he was expelled from Egypt shortly after arriving in Cairo to attend a political conference as a Fatah representative. Shortly after his plane landed, Egyptian security forces put him on another plane and ordered him to leave the country after criticizing the Egyptian president in the media.
> 
> According to Fatah sources, Jibril Rajoub feels that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas is about to retire soon from political life and because he believes he is the most suitable candidate for the post of heir, he launched an attack on his rival Muhammad Dahlan, who was supported by The Arab Quartet (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates) as the next PA chairman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their constitution has procedures to replace a president. Of course the US will not allow that to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course islamic terrorist governments have procedures for replacing dictators. Those procedures involve weapons and ammunition. That's the way of the world in much of islam'istan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


It takes very little effort to leave you befuddled and with no option but to cut and paste your usual goofy slogans.


----------



## rylah

*Ahed Tamimi*





*Ahlam Tamimi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Engaging Change in the Middle East - Rami G. Khoury*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Engaging Change in the Middle East - Rami G. Khoury*
> 
> **



Change starts here:

"The Arab view has to free itself from the beliefs passed down through generations by Christians, and the political Islam, both Sunni and Shia - a premise perpetrated for political means only. *A culture of hatred of Jews and denial of their historical rights in Near East*" 
- Abd al-Amid Hakim -


*press 'cc' button for translation


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Engaging Change in the Middle East - Rami G. Khoury*
> 
> **



What change? The Islamist Middle East, with regard to education, the arts, science, social structure has been largely stagnant since the 7th century. 

Most of your Islamic paradises still confine women to dressing in 
Shame Sacks.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Change starts here:
> 
> "The Arab view has to free itself from the beliefs passed down through generations by Christians, and the political Islam, both Sunni and Shia - a premise perpetrated for political means only. *A culture of hatred of Jews and denial of their historical rights in Near East*"
> - Abd al-Amid Hakim -
> 
> 
> *press 'cc' button for translation



Could not agree more.  THIS is what will bring change and peace to the Arab/Israel conflict -- recognition of Israel's (read: the Jewish people's) historic rights.


----------



## fanger

rylah said:


> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*


Two different people


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different people
Click to expand...


Two people, the same retrograde ideology.


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two people, the same retrograde ideology.
Click to expand...

I don't see Palestinians retiring or retreating anytime soon, one used a bomb, the other used internet


----------



## P F Tinmore

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two people, the same retrograde ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see Palestinians retiring or retreating anytime soon, one used a bomb, the other used internet
Click to expand...

Indeed, and it is not up to me to tell people how to get that boot off their neck.


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two people, the same retrograde ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see Palestinians retiring or retreating anytime soon, one used a bomb, the other used internet
Click to expand...


No one is impressed with your impotent gee-had.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ahlam Tamimi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two different people
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two people, the same retrograde ideology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see Palestinians retiring or retreating anytime soon, one used a bomb, the other used internet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and it is not up to me to tell people how to get that boot off their neck.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your Pom Pom flailing is a sorry joke.


----------



## fanger

Your stock phrase comments are a joke


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Those poor, oppressed Arabs-Moslems. They’re angry that Trump and the Great Satan have taken away a portion of their welfare fraud money. 

Just a bunch of petulant, islamically disturbed children.




*The PA: Trump is a racist Zionist - PMW Bulletins

The PA responds to US announcing May date
 for Jerusalem embassy move:*


*Trump is a racist Zionist,*
*Trump is killing the chances for peace*






*Official PA daily op-ed portrayed Trump as a "racist" and "Zionist":*
*"His political decisions... stem from a complex, impulsive, unbalanced, and mentally unstable personality, and in our opinion these are the main characteristics of the racist personality." *

*"He is not only aggressive, rude, and controlling, but a combination of a mentality of theft with the negation and denial of the rights of others, and these are exactly the characteristics of the Zionist personality."  * 

*The Palestinian National Council "demanded that the Arab and Islamic nation defend Jerusalem and its holy sites, and harness their full abilities and connections in order to prevent the execution of this decision."*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another of the Arab-Islamist frauds. Whine about “apartheid” (a term both you and your fellow Islamists don’t understand), while squatting in your Jew free Islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza’istan.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



The same Azmi?


Give me a notice when Arabs let Jews have a party in the Gaza parliament.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel behind 'Christian exodus' from Palestine*

Beit Jala, Palestine -
The Israeli occupation of Palestine is the main factor behind the exodus of Palestinian Christians from the region, according to a new study.

The research carried out by Dar al-Kalima University in the occupied West Bank town of Beit Jala, concluded that only small percentage of Christians had left Palestine because of concerns over Muslim religious conservatism.

Researchers interviewed more than a thousand people, roughly half of whom were Christian and the other half Muslim, on their outlook on life and, if negative, the causes of their pessimism.

"The pressure of Israeli occupation, ongoing constraints, discriminatory policies, arbitrary arrests, confiscation of lands added to the general sense of hopelessness among Palestinian Christians," the study said.

These conditions have put Palestinian Christians in "a despairing situation where they can no longer perceive a future for their offspring or for themselves," it added.







Israel behind 'Christian exodus' from Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Martyrdom is so cool, right? 

As long as it happens to youngsters you push into harms way. Then you can parade them around like trophies.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martyrdom is so cool, right?
> 
> As long as it happens to youngsters you push into harms way. Then you can parade them around like trophies.
Click to expand...

He was shot in his own village where he is supposed to be.

Nobody pushed him in harms way.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martyrdom is so cool, right?
> 
> As long as it happens to youngsters you push into harms way. Then you can parade them around like trophies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was shot in his own village where he is supposed to be.
> 
> Nobody pushed him in harms way.
Click to expand...


Come now, Chuckles. Children are a disposable commodity in islam’istan. 

That’s exactly why people like you are so quick to impose “martyrdom” on pre-teen boys and girls. Get them while they’re young and impressionable and indoctrinate them into your world of Jooooooo hatreds.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Fatah terrorists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Fatah terrorists


Pfffft. Chicken feed compared to Israel's crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Protesters Defend Their "Right to Exist"*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pfffft. Chicken feed compared to Israel's crimes.
Click to expand...


It is fun to see your Islamic terrorist heros slamming away at each other.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists defend their right to be retrograde.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian award winning educator Hanan Al-Hroub: “Many creative and exceptional teachers are working silently in many schools in my country. I hope more teachers in Palestine will be rewarded and recognized morally.”


----------



## Lastamender

PF found a pair of socks you might like.




Polish Company Slammed for Selling… Hitler Socks «  Tammy Bruce


----------



## rylah

*The Egyptian army changes the route of the area near the border with Gaza as part of an engineering project*


Arab sources report that during the past two weeks, the Egyptian army has begun an engineering project to improve its control over the border between Gaza and Sinai.
As part of this project, Egyptian army bulldozers began erecting a raised dirt barrier from the Rafah crossing to the Mediterranean coast.
In addition to this, there is a report of the digging of a moat or a trench that will be another obstacle to those who try to cross the border.
It should be mentioned that the entire area of Rafah, which is parallel to the barrier, is completely evacuated from civilians and their homes in the area have been destroyed.

Al-Sisi considers it extremely important to prevent the movement of infiltrators from Gaza to Sinai and vice versa.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nerdeen Kiswani


----------



## Hollie

*The sickness that is Arab-Islamism.


Youth who sought Martyrdom and Virgins was "murdered," claims the PA - PMW Bulletins

Eager to marry the Virgins of Paradise*
*a 16-year-old Palestinian sought Martyrdom*

*Yet the PA blamed Israel for his "murder"*


By Itamar Marcus

The official PA daily reported that a 16-year-old Palestinian was jealous of the large funerals for "Martyrs," saying that he wanted his own "wedding" like that. His defining a funeral as a wedding is a reference to the Islamic tradition that the PA teaches its people. They claim terrorists and others who die in confrontations with Israel are _Shahids_ - Martyrs - who are rewarded in Paradise with 72 Dark-Eyed Virgins. Accordingly, Palestinian "Martyrs" don't have funerals - they have "weddings."

Apparently, 16-year-old Laith Haitham Abu Na'im was convinced by the PA teachings. According to the official PA daily he "was known for his strong envy of the large Martyrs' (_Shahids_') funerals," because he wanted his own similar "wedding." Last month, he achieved the death he sought in confrontation with Israel and, according to the PA daily, "a big wedding was held as he yearned for." The PA daily also reported that Abu Na'im "competed with his friends about who would get there first to throw rocks at the occupation's jeeps, and did not let anyone precede him." [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Feb. 1, 2018]

Palestinian Media Watch has documented the death wish of other Palestinian youths who have yearned to become "Martyrs," and marry the Virgins. 

The fact that the PA reports that Abu Na'im went out to a place of confrontation seeking to be killed, does not stop the PA from accusing Israel of murdering Abu Na'im. 

PA TV reported: 
"He was shot and murdered at point-blank range by the hostile soldier, and this was as part of the systematic Israeli policy to murder Palestinian children whose only sin was love of the homeland." 
[Official PA TV News, Jan. 31, 2018]

Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki likewise blamed Israel: 
"I saw the scene of the murder... when a human being turns into a savage, and the one who is armed with all types of weapons attacks a young person of such an age and kills him - he loses his humanity." 
[Official PA TV News, Jan. 31, 2018]

Zaki himself, right after blaming Israel for "murder," went on to say that it is the desire of Palestinian youths to become Martyrs that will help continue the Palestinian cause:

"The flow of the young people and [former PA Chairman Yasser] Arafat's slogan 'Millions of Martyrs are marching to Jerusalem' are the guarantee for the continuation, and the resolve of the leadership against all of these challenges."
[Official PA TV News, Jan. 31, 2018


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, sentenced to four months in Israeli prison*

*



*

Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, was sentenced by an Israeli military court on 16 January to four months in prison and a fine of 2500 NIS ($800 USD). A Palestinian refugee from al-Arroub camp south of Al-Khalil, Razan is the youngest female Palestinian prisoner in Israeli jails.

She is one of approximately 360 Palestinian children jailed in Israeli prisons. Every year, approximately 700 Palestinian children are dragged before Israeli military courts with a conviction rate of over 99 percent. Palestinian children frequently report physical and psychological abuse under Israeli interrogation as well as the use of solitary confinement and denial of access to their families or a lawyer.

*Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, sentenced to four months in Israeli prison*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, sentenced to four months in Israeli prison*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, was sentenced by an Israeli military court on 16 January to four months in prison and a fine of 2500 NIS ($800 USD). A Palestinian refugee from al-Arroub camp south of Al-Khalil, Razan is the youngest female Palestinian prisoner in Israeli jails.
> 
> She is one of approximately 360 Palestinian children jailed in Israeli prisons. Every year, approximately 700 Palestinian children are dragged before Israeli military courts with a conviction rate of over 99 percent. Palestinian children frequently report physical and psychological abuse under Israeli interrogation as well as the use of solitary confinement and denial of access to their families or a lawyer.
> 
> *Palestinian child prisoner Razan Abu Sal, 13, sentenced to four months in Israeli prison*



Arabs-Moslems are entitled to the commission of crimes without consequence?


----------



## Hollie

How the Media Glorifies Palestinian Female Terrorists | Clarion Project

*How the Media Glorifies Palestinian Female Terrorists*
Home > World > Palestinian Authority > How the Media Glorifies Palestinian Female Terrorists
BY RACHEL AVRAHAM Wednesday, April 26, 2017


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gee whiz. No sign of your Hamas terrorist heroes. I guess they had more pressing matters to attend to, you know, like cashing their welfare checks. Hey, leave the Fem Tent losers for silly photo-ops. The various Muhammuds have cashed their welfare checks and shuffled off to their condos.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamism - adventures in child abuse.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamism - adventures in child abuse.


Cool, she was telling the goontard to get out of her yard. He smacked her before she went off on him.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamism - adventures in child abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, she was telling the goontard to get out of her yard. He smacked her before she went off on him.
Click to expand...


Oh Jesse, more Pallywood Studios propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

Fatah, Headed By Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas, Gives Apartment To Family Of Terrorist Who Murdered An Israeli

*Fatah, Headed By Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud 'Abbas, Gives Apartment To Family Of Terrorist Who Murdered An Israeli*

_Palestinian media are reporting that the Jenin branch of Fatah, which is headed by Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud 'Abbas, had given an apartment to the family of Ahmad Nassar Jarrar, 22, commander of the Hamas squad that murdered Rabbi Raziel Shevach on January 9, 2018 near the Havat Gilad junction in the West Bank. Jarrar was killed by Israeli troops a month later, in a February 6, 2018 raid._

_Fatah representatives noted that the donation of the apartment constituted fulfilment of the national obligation to the family of a martyr who had sacrificed his life for Palestine and whose home the occupation had razed. Jarrar's mother and brother thanked Fatah for its support.

_
Interesting how islamic terrorists sure do make use of technology innovated by the kuffar, technology they could never innovate on their own.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Fatah representatives noted that the donation of the apartment constituted fulfilment of the national obligation to the family of a martyr who had sacrificed his life for Palestine and whose home the occupation had razed. Jarrar's mother and brother thanked Fatah for its support.


Coming from a country that does not give a rat's ass for the homeless, it is good to see a country step up to the plate and provide shelter for its people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah representatives noted that the donation of the apartment constituted fulfilment of the national obligation to the family of a martyr who had sacrificed his life for Palestine and whose home the occupation had razed. Jarrar's mother and brother thanked Fatah for its support.
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from a country that does not give a rat's ass for the homeless, it is good to see a country step up to the plate and provide shelter for its people.
Click to expand...


The "country of Fatah"?

Have you fallen down and bumped your head again?

Otherwise, I'm not convinced that rewarding islamic terrorism is a particularly good idea.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Who are you to question the Death Cult?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Your fascination with exploitation of teenage girls is concerning.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



So, the end game here is to permit Arab Palestinian youth to continue to commit violent crimes without consequence?  Or is the end game to improve conditions for Arab Palestinian youth who are in detention?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The question needs to be asked “why do Islamics have this need to use their children like disposable products”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question needs to be asked “why do Islamics have this need to use their children like disposable products”?
Click to expand...

Indeed, how dare they allow their kids to play in their own village.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question needs to be asked “why do Islamics have this need to use their children like disposable products”?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, how dare they allow their kids to play in their own village.
Click to expand...


Indeed, playing for Islamics involves delinquent behavior at the promoting of Islamic terrorist adults.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, how dare they allow their kids to play in their own village.



Do you actually believe what you write?  That this "innocent" child was just "playing" in his own village and some evil Jew walked up and shot him in the face?  

Have some integrity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, how dare they allow their kids to play in their own village.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe what you write?  That this "innocent" child was just "playing" in his own village and some evil Jew walked up and shot him in the face?
> 
> Have some integrity.
Click to expand...

Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Silencing dissent on campus: the case of Israeli Apartheid Week" - Rafeef Ziadeh [English]*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian director Anne-Marie Jacir - When I Saw You*

**


----------



## Hollie

Hamas - Pallywood Directors


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation with Palestinian-American poet Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


>


4/3/18:

Rescue Judea and Samaria: stone throwing, from the surface of the school in Tekoa
Locality 443: Terrorists threw stones near Halhul no injuries, damage caused.

Also stone throwing in the direction of a tanker in Nablus bypass south of Gilad axis.
Stone throwing towards the security fence of Neve Tzuf.

Rescue Judea and Samaria: Etzion: Arabs throw stones at vehicles and a bottle of paint at a bus on the Gush Etzion road near al-'Arub RC. No casualties.

Rescue Judea and Samaria: Additional stone throwing in El Arub, team 93 captured the saboteur.

Rescue Judea and Samaria: stone throwing possible vehicle may be passing through Huwwara between the Shomron Shomron Square and Yitzhar junction

Moked 443: Three saboteurs throw stones at a vehicle between Itamar and Elon Moreh, with no casualties or damage. In the treatment of forces.

Moked 443: saboteurs threw stones near Azzun, without casualties or damage.

Moked 443:  reports of molotovs being thrown in Mivtare Avud. Without casualties. Damage caused.

Rescue Judea and Samaria: near Kiryat Arba, and due to an error in identifying the vehicle, *damage to a vehicle of a Palestinian.
*
מצילים ללא גבולות - חדשות
מוקד 443 (@moked443) | Twitter


----------



## rylah

*Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*

Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.

The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.

In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.





(Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*
> 
> Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.
> 
> The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.
> 
> In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )


The al-Sisi government is a terrorist organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*
> 
> Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.
> 
> The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.
> 
> In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )
> 
> 
> 
> The al-Sisi government is a terrorist organization.
Click to expand...


Yet another of your nonsensical conspiracy theories.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*
> 
> Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.
> 
> The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.
> 
> In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )
> 
> 
> 
> The al-Sisi government is a terrorist organization.
Click to expand...


Says the guy who posted a video claiming the US is a terrorist organization.

Your Islamist heroes chose the side of Muslim Brotherhood, and now Iran :

*Hamas deputy leader says to continue Iran ties, armed fight*

DUBAI (Reuters) - The deputy head of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas vowed to keep close ties with Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and to maintain its weapons, Iranian media reported on Sunday, rejecting Israeli preconditions for any peace talks.

Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist group by Western countries and Israel, signed a reconciliation deal this month with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction.

“Undoubtedly, the Palestinian resistance forces will never give up ... their arms,” the semi-official news agency Mehr quoted Saleh Arouri as saying at a meeting with the Iranian parliament’s speaker Ali Larijani in Tehran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*
> 
> Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.
> 
> The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.
> 
> In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )
> 
> 
> 
> The al-Sisi government is a terrorist organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the guy who posted a video claiming the US is a terrorist organization.
> 
> Your Islamist heroes chose the side of Muslim Brotherhood, and now Iran :
> 
> *Hamas deputy leader says to continue Iran ties, armed fight*
> 
> DUBAI (Reuters) - The deputy head of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas vowed to keep close ties with Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and to maintain its weapons, Iranian media reported on Sunday, rejecting Israeli preconditions for any peace talks.
> 
> Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist group by Western countries and Israel, signed a reconciliation deal this month with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction.
> 
> “Undoubtedly, the Palestinian resistance forces will never give up ... their arms,” the semi-official news agency Mehr quoted Saleh Arouri as saying at a meeting with the Iranian parliament’s speaker Ali Larijani in Tehran.
Click to expand...

*Egyptian singer Sherine Abdel-Wahab sentenced to 6 months in jail over joke*

Egyptian singer Sherine Abdel-Wahab sentenced to 6 months in jail over joke


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt presses Hamas - reduce the influence of Qatar*
> 
> Since the rise of President al-Sisi to power, Qatar has been acting against his regime. Qatar, which is the largest supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and Da'ash support the terrorist activity in Egypt and support it together with Turkey.
> 
> The Qatari authorities, which finance and operate Al-Jazeera TV, which is popular in the Arab world, have turned it into the main instrument of incitement against the regime of al-Sisi.
> 
> In response, Egyptian President Aseisi is leading the Arab boycott of Qatar together with the Arab Quartet because of its support for the terrorist organizations. This boycott continues despite the mediation efforts of the United States, Kuwait, France and Germany, which have failed so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Hamas leader with Emir of Qatar Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani  of the Tamimi tibe )
> 
> 
> 
> The al-Sisi government is a terrorist organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the guy who posted a video claiming the US is a terrorist organization.
> 
> Your Islamist heroes chose the side of Muslim Brotherhood, and now Iran :
> 
> *Hamas deputy leader says to continue Iran ties, armed fight*
> 
> DUBAI (Reuters) - The deputy head of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas vowed to keep close ties with Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and to maintain its weapons, Iranian media reported on Sunday, rejecting Israeli preconditions for any peace talks.
> 
> Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist group by Western countries and Israel, signed a reconciliation deal this month with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction.
> 
> “Undoubtedly, the Palestinian resistance forces will never give up ... their arms,” the semi-official news agency Mehr quoted Saleh Arouri as saying at a meeting with the Iranian parliament’s speaker Ali Larijani in Tehran.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Egyptian singer Sherine Abdel-Wahab sentenced to 6 months in jail over joke*
> 
> Egyptian singer Sherine Abdel-Wahab sentenced to 6 months in jail over joke
Click to expand...


Deflection.

Your heroes in Gaza execute people for sexual preference, drag them on the streets and all You have is a story about a sentenced Egyptian singer?!






Then come Erdogan and the Emir of Qatar and expose how You pimp that girl from the Tamimi tribe .






No wonder You get pissed when those Islamist frauds are exposed.
Q. So You didn't post a video calling the US a terrorist state?


----------



## Hollie

The Racism Associated With Palestinian ‘Human-Rights’ Organizations

*The Racism Associated With Palestinian ‘Human-Rights’ Organizations
*
The Jerusalem District Court determined in the summer of 2017 that the Palestinian Authority (PA) was responsible for the kidnapping, torture and murder of dozens of suspected Arab “collaborators” within Israel — several of them with Israeli citizenship — between 1995 and 2002. The court proceedings unveiled grueling testimonies of Arabs who had been subjected to the most heinous torture in the cellars of detention centers run by the Palestinian Authority.

The PA naturally denied all the allegations, but the presiding judge ruled that the accumulation of evidence made it clear that the PA was guilty of severe torture, as well as murder. This torture included the so-called shabah position, widely used in PA prisons, in which the victim is hung from the ceiling for several hours and beaten all over his body.

According to the verdict, the torture also included electric shocks, the pouring of boiling plastic on the body, the tearing out nails and breaking of teeth, sterilization, sleep deprivation, food and drink deprivation, sexual assault and the rape of family members. The PA also reportedly asked doctors to worsen the conditions of the prisoners, such as injecting urine into the prisoners’ blood veins.



Lovely, lovely folks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rabab Abdulhadi: How and Why the Israel Lobby Is Suppressing Free Speech*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rabab Abdulhadi: How and Why the Israel Lobby Is Suppressing Free Speech*
> 
> **



I'm sure we would all benefit from freedom of expression as an attribute promoted by the mullahs in your Islamist paradises.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Manal Tamimi*

The moment when you find out that your son is way taller than you , you feel like WTF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'm the mother


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Manal Tamimi*
> 
> The moment when you find out that your son is way taller than you , you feel like WTF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I'm the mother



How far can he throw a rock?


----------



## Hollie

A tribe suffering from mental illness.

Palestinian terrorist does not regret killing 15: I'd do it again said Ahlam Tamimi


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli goontards doing what goontards do best.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Manal Tamimi*
> 
> The moment when you find out that your son is way taller than you , you feel like WTF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I'm the mother
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How far can he throw a rock?
Click to expand...

How much shit can you shovel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> A tribe suffering from mental illness.
> 
> Palestinian terrorist does not regret killing 15: I'd do it again said Ahlam Tamimi


Pffft,chickenfeed. Israel does better than that bombing a house.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> A tribe suffering from mental illness.
> 
> Palestinian terrorist does not regret killing 15: I'd do it again said Ahlam Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> Pffft,chickenfeed. Israel does better than that bombing a house.
Click to expand...


Acts of Islamic terrorism carry consequences. 



Geeeeeee-had that will have Allah working overtime cranking out those virgins.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another islamic rock chucking video?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
and You still don't understand how they end up in jail


----------



## rylah

*Hamas deputy leader says to continue Iran ties, armed fight*

DUBAI (Reuters) - The deputy head of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas vowed to keep close ties with Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and to maintain its weapons, Iranian media reported on Sunday, rejecting Israeli preconditions for any peace talks.

Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist group by Western countries and Israel, signed a reconciliation deal this month with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction.

“Undoubtedly, the Palestinian resistance forces will never give up ... their arms,” the semi-official news agency Mehr quoted Saleh Arouri as saying at a meeting with the Iranian parliament’s speaker Ali Larijani in Tehran.

(Iranian Ayatollahs of the Islamic revolution - during Hamas demostrations in Gaza)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli military attacking Palestinian civilians. As always.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
Click to expand...

Oh my, the violence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli military attacking Palestinian civilians. As always.


Another orchestrated Pallywood Studios staged confrontation. 

Where are your hands when you're pushing pre-teen girls into these confrontations?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
Click to expand...


Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.


This is another one,
and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.

Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
Click to expand...


What does it say about a cultural dynamic where parents use their children as chattel to advance an agenda of hate and self destruction?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
Click to expand...


P F Tinmore that's Your hero #Erdogan-girl,
cousin of the Chief Sharia Judge.



*Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling for violent riots and murder?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



As usual with these videos the camera is placed conveniently anticipating the frame
,I wonder what was cut.

This is Switzerland:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Better defined as “Arab-Moslem victim of Arabs-Moslems”


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Terrorism: Analysis of 2017 and Forecast for 2018 - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center

The extent of Palestinian terrorism and the policies behind it: During 2017 the number of terrorist attacks continued to decline. Despite the decline in the number of attacks, there was no decline in the number of deaths they caused. Popular terrorism continues as the strategy favored by the Palestinian Authority Fatah, and Mahmoud Abbas, who heads them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



He was "playing football" and this one was "merely driving his wife to a doctor"...

Driver's father: "All that happened was that he took his pregnant wife for a test."...until suddenly he happened to *cough* unintentionally  run over 3 people in different locations, right?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
Click to expand...



Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?

*U.S. Senate Unanimously Approves Resolution Giving Full Support of Israel on Gaza *

U.S. Senate unanimously approves resolution giving full support of Israel on Gaza


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



There seems to be this odd correlation with Islamics driving vehicles and multitudes of people being run down. France, Germany, Israel, and elsewhere have had their citizens run down by Islamics driving cars and trucks.

Maybe you people need to be segregated so you’re less of a threat.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> *U.S. Senate Unanimously Approves Resolution Giving Full Support of Israel on Gaza *
> 
> U.S. Senate unanimously approves resolution giving full support of Israel on Gaza
Click to expand...


Nothing in your cut and paste slogans supports your claim.

Why do you continue to cut and paste slogans you can’t defend? You must be suffering from the debilitating disease known as _Islamism_.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> *U.S. Senate Unanimously Approves Resolution Giving Full Support of Israel on Gaza *
> 
> U.S. Senate unanimously approves resolution giving full support of Israel on Gaza
Click to expand...


Good!
Now when are You going to answer the question about Your Qatari princess?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI You just posted a video of a girl who's name is *"Heavenly Jihad" *(Jannah Jihad)
> and You still don't understand how they end up in jail
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, the violence.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes yet another one of Your favorite Erdogan girls You Islamist misfits proudly pimp , who's name happens to be *"Heavenly Jihad"*.
> 
> 
> This is another one,
> and Yes -incitement to murder IS violence.
> 
> Q.What would happen to a US citizen publicly calling  for violent riots and murder?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I remember correctly, our senate unanimously voted in favor of Israel's murders in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> *U.S. Senate Unanimously Approves Resolution Giving Full Support of Israel on Gaza *
> 
> U.S. Senate unanimously approves resolution giving full support of Israel on Gaza
Click to expand...


That’s really terrible. Are you going to send threatening emails to those kuffar, Jooooo catering senators? 

This calls for gee-had sweetie. Don’t be a slouch. Gee-had is your duty.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>




Kiswani is from an *Indian family*, as many troops from that region were part of the invading British army... sums up all You need to know about the UNRWA "refugees" fraud.







Keswani Family Fund
Keswani funds will support scholarships through the AAP India _Giani_ program. With enough funding, the intention is to bring one additional scholar each year from India for advanced neonatal training in one of the centers of excellence.

*Dr. Nandkumar Hemraj Keswani *was the first appointed Professor and one of the founding leaders at All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), New Delhi, India from its inception in 1956, serving as Professor of Anatomy and History of Medicine, and later its Dean and Interim Director. To help set up a leading medical institution in independent India, the Keswanis left the Mayo Clinic and moved back to India, a sacrifice for which his students and country remain forever indebted.
He was instrumental in elevating AIIMS to its sustained status as India's leading medical school and research institution.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinians Becoming More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise

*Poll: Palestinians Becoming Even More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise*

23% of respondents expressed support for one state for both peoples – effectively abolishing the Jewish state – up 5 percentage points from last year.

An overwhelming majority of 96% of those polled oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state without Jerusalem as its capital.

Less Palestinians today support the idea of a negotiated solution with Israel, down from 37% in February 2017 to 25% in 2018.

Palestinians who supported “armed resistance” against Israel – usually in the form of terror attacks – was 25%, up 5 percentage points from last year.





I’m still surprised that we westerners define the above as “extreme”. These are just pious Arabs-Moslems who follow the literal verses of their Korans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Palestinians Becoming More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise
> 
> *Poll: Palestinians Becoming Even More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise*
> 
> 23% of respondents expressed support for one state for both peoples – effectively abolishing the Jewish state – up 5 percentage points from last year.
> 
> An overwhelming majority of 96% of those polled oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state without Jerusalem as its capital.
> 
> Less Palestinians today support the idea of a negotiated solution with Israel, down from 37% in February 2017 to 25% in 2018.
> 
> Palestinians who supported “armed resistance” against Israel – usually in the form of terror attacks – was 25%, up 5 percentage points from last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m still surprised that we westerners define the above as “extreme”. These are just pious Arabs-Moslems who follow the literal verses of their Korans.


OK, and?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians Becoming More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise
> 
> *Poll: Palestinians Becoming Even More Extreme, Support for Terrorism on the Rise*
> 
> 23% of respondents expressed support for one state for both peoples – effectively abolishing the Jewish state – up 5 percentage points from last year.
> 
> An overwhelming majority of 96% of those polled oppose the establishment of a Palestinian state without Jerusalem as its capital.
> 
> Less Palestinians today support the idea of a negotiated solution with Israel, down from 37% in February 2017 to 25% in 2018.
> 
> Palestinians who supported “armed resistance” against Israel – usually in the form of terror attacks – was 25%, up 5 percentage points from last year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m still surprised that we westerners define the above as “extreme”. These are just pious Arabs-Moslems who follow the literal verses of their Korans.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
Click to expand...


Your vacant-minded quips are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation with Palestinian-American poet Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Conversation with Palestinian-American poet Remi Kanazi*
> 
> **



You dumped that silly YouTube video into an earlier thread. 

Are you exhausting your supply of cut and paste YouTube videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Death Cultist


----------



## Hollie

“Because of Palestinian terrorism, Israel, like other countries, has been forced to erect checkpoints in order to protect civilians in Israel. These checkpoints have been the targets of dozens of terror attacks, and soldiers tasked with working at checkpoints have been heavily criticized by anti-Israel activists.”


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem Death Cultist


Notice how the Ambulance was prepared waiting, and the Iranian reporter conveniently directed the camera to that frame- moments before he ran into soldiers.

It was coordinated beforehand.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Saint Porfirios church in Gaza City*


----------



## rylah

*Gaza Catholic church hit by explosion*
A hand grenade has exploded in the courtyard of a Roman Catholic church in Gaza City, but there were no reported casualties or damage, a parish official said.

The enclave has seen several attacks against Christian targets in the past few years.
A library belonging to the Baptist church was damaged in a bomb attack in 2007.
In 2011, a bomb targeted the director of Gaza's Anglican hospital, who escaped unharmed.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

About 100 Israelis staged a demonstration in front of Hasharon prison in solidarity with Palestinian political prisoners. Hasharon prison is where Israel is currently detaining 16 years old Ahed Tamini and her mother Nariman,


----------



## Hollie

Sick: The Palestinian terrorist who committed the Halamish Shabbat dinner attack will receive a $3,120 monthly reward from Palestinian Authority...and he's not the only one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Men dressed as a Santa Claus parade on a old car on the last day of 2017 in Gaza city, Palestine, Dec. 31, 2017.


----------



## Hollie

PALESTINIANS PRAISE DEAD TERRORIST
HAMAS glorifying terrorism is something we have come to expect, but what the media doesn't cover is the fact that Mahmoud Abbas' "moderate" Fatah party does the same. Not only do they incite violence, but they pay for terrorists to kill Israeli citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)

Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)



AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM

Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza 




Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.

A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.

“Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.

Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.

Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *


Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?
Click to expand...


Something from your mullahs at PressTV perhaps?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Something from your mullahs at PressTV perhaps?
Click to expand...

Anything but propaganda out of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Something from your mullahs at PressTV perhaps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anything but propaganda out of Israel.
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. You get incensed when your Islamic terrorist heroes are shown to be Death Cultists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"The Role Of Academia In Individual R2P" - Coralie Pison Hindawi *

**


----------



## Hollie

WATCH: British MP Demands End to ‘Abhorrent’ Palestinian Terror Funding

During a recent hearing on British aid to the Palestinian Authority chaired by Middle East Minister Alistair Burt, British Conservative lawmaker Andrew Rosendell issued a scathing condemnation of the PA’s use of foreign aid to fund terror.

In December 2016, the UK issued new guidelines regarding aid to the PA following revelations that the money was being used to pay salaries to terrorists and their families. According to the announcement, key changes were made and the UK would focus solely on vital health and education services.

Reports indicate that the PA nevertheless continues to transfer foreign aid money to fund terror.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?
Click to expand...


Are you saying it's not true?  That it never happened?  That Israel is making this up?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza (VIDEO)
> 
> 
> 
> AUGUST 7, 2014 11:03 PM
> 
> Archbishop: Hamas Fired Out of Our Church in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza church. Photo: Maan News Agency.
> 
> A Catholic Archbishop ministering to Gaza’s minute Christian minority says Hamas terrorists forced him to allow them to use his church to fire rockets at Israel during the four week-long Operation Protective Edge.
> 
> “Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences,” Archbishop Alexios told The Christian Broadcasting Network.
> 
> Alexios showed the reporter where Hamas terrorists used the roof of the center to fire rockets at Israel.
> 
> Numerous Israeli UAV videos have shown similar images of rocket crews using mosques, schools, hospitals and other civilian structures as ammunition and gun nests, as well as launch sites – all war crimes according to the Geneva Conventions.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a report that does not come out of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying it's not true?  That it never happened?  That Israel is making this up?
Click to expand...

I said what I said. Don't try to derail that conversation.


----------



## rylah

*Gaza Bishop: Hamas Used Church to Fire Rockets*

GAZA STRIP -- Air raid sirens sounding in the Eshkol Region on Wednesday afternoon turned out to be a false alarm. The 72-hour ceasefire appears to be holding for now.
Hamas is not only using mosques to launch attacks against Israelis. It has also used a church compound.






*"Islam is the rule of this place and whatever Hamas says we must obey or face consequences," Alexios explained (above).*


----------



## Hollie

When I read the phrase “a special kind of stupid”, I immediately thought “Islamist Death Cultists”

Search

For the third time in one week, dumb Palestinian terrorists firebombed a Jerusalem hospital which treats Jews and Arabs, including Palestinian terrorists who get shot by Israeli forces after committing terrorist attacks against Israelis.

A special kind of stupid.




Terrorists firebomb Jerusalem hospital
A firebomb thrown at a Jerusalem hospital was the third such attack by Arab terrorists in a week.
WORLDISRAELNEWS.COM


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> When I read the phrase “a special kind of stupid”, I immediately thought “Islamist Death Cultists”
> 
> Search
> 
> For the third time in one week, dumb Palestinian terrorists firebombed a Jerusalem hospital which treats Jews and Arabs, including Palestinian terrorists who get shot by Israeli forces after committing terrorist attacks against Israelis.
> 
> A special kind of stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists firebomb Jerusalem hospital
> A firebomb thrown at a Jerusalem hospital was the third such attack by Arab terrorists in a week.
> WORLDISRAELNEWS.COM


your photo is from 2014
Bombas incendiarias en autobús de Niñas a su Bat Mitzva  Sólo Arutz Sheva informa


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I read the phrase “a special kind of stupid”, I immediately thought “Islamist Death Cultists”
> 
> Search
> 
> For the third time in one week, dumb Palestinian terrorists firebombed a Jerusalem hospital which treats Jews and Arabs, including Palestinian terrorists who get shot by Israeli forces after committing terrorist attacks against Israelis.
> 
> A special kind of stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists firebomb Jerusalem hospital
> A firebomb thrown at a Jerusalem hospital was the third such attack by Arab terrorists in a week.
> WORLDISRAELNEWS.COM
> 
> 
> 
> your photo is from 2014
> Bombas incendiarias en autobús de Niñas a su Bat Mitzva  Sólo Arutz Sheva informa
Click to expand...


It’s not my photo. 

What does Juan Cole have written on the matter that you can plagiarize?


----------



## P F Tinmore

In recognition of International Women's Day


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cultist for the gee-had


----------



## fanger

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I read the phrase “a special kind of stupid”, I immediately thought “Islamist Death Cultists”
> 
> Search
> 
> For the third time in one week, dumb Palestinian terrorists firebombed a Jerusalem hospital which treats Jews and Arabs, including Palestinian terrorists who get shot by Israeli forces after committing terrorist attacks against Israelis.
> 
> A special kind of stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists firebomb Jerusalem hospital
> A firebomb thrown at a Jerusalem hospital was the third such attack by Arab terrorists in a week.
> WORLDISRAELNEWS.COM
> 
> 
> 
> your photo is from 2014
> Bombas incendiarias en autobús de Niñas a su Bat Mitzva  Sólo Arutz Sheva informa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s not my photo.
> 
> What does Juan Cole have written on the matter that you can plagiarize?
Click to expand...

The photo is first used in 2014,
*Donations*
Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to

*Juan Cole
P. O. Box 32509
Los Angeles, CA
90032

About*


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I read the phrase “a special kind of stupid”, I immediately thought “Islamist Death Cultists”
> 
> Search
> 
> For the third time in one week, dumb Palestinian terrorists firebombed a Jerusalem hospital which treats Jews and Arabs, including Palestinian terrorists who get shot by Israeli forces after committing terrorist attacks against Israelis.
> 
> A special kind of stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists firebomb Jerusalem hospital
> A firebomb thrown at a Jerusalem hospital was the third such attack by Arab terrorists in a week.
> WORLDISRAELNEWS.COM
> 
> 
> 
> your photo is from 2014
> Bombas incendiarias en autobús de Niñas a su Bat Mitzva  Sólo Arutz Sheva informa
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s not my photo.
> 
> What does Juan Cole have written on the matter that you can plagiarize?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The photo is first used in 2014,
> *Donations*
> Thank you to all of my supporters for your generosity and your encouragement of an independent press! Checks to
> 
> *Juan Cole
> P. O. Box 32509
> Los Angeles, CA
> 90032
> 
> About*
Click to expand...


I require you to make a large donation as payment for the material you plagiarized.


----------



## fanger

I require you to get up off your fat butt and walk a little


----------



## Hollie

More loopy, unhinged rattling from another islamist misfit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children*

**


----------



## Hollie

“The Plight of the children in the islamist Death Cult”

Why does anyone question the mental deficiency of children who are raised in an Islamic Death Cult?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually cool.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Maybe she has a chance to escape the Islamist Death Cult.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> In recognition of International Women's Day



Uh huh.  Zionism (Jewish liberation and self-determination) as a form of (evil) patriarchy while Arab Palestinian liberation and self-determination is a form of feminism (good).   (~15:00)

Disgusting.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> In recognition of International Women's Day



"Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."

Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!

Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
Click to expand...

The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
Click to expand...


Another of your twisted conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

Grooming the next generation of The Hitler Youth.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.



You've got to be kidding me.  So Jews are now responsible for the actions of every LEO in the world?  Next you'll be saying that all Scots are responsible for the actions of my children.  (Except not.  Because not Joooooos.)

But it does confirm my earlier suspicions and claim that Arab Palestinians are incapable of accepting any responsibility for their own actions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding me.  So Jews are now responsible for the actions of every LEO in the world?  Next you'll be saying that all Scots are responsible for the actions of my children.  (Except not.  Because not Joooooos.)
> 
> But it does confirm my earlier suspicions and claim that Arab Palestinians are incapable of accepting any responsibility for their own actions.
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding me.  So Jews are now responsible for the actions of every LEO in the world?  Next you'll be saying that all Scots are responsible for the actions of my children.  (Except not.  Because not Joooooos.)
> 
> But it does confirm my earlier suspicions and claim that Arab Palestinians are incapable of accepting any responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...



Q. Why because You post videos by al-Jazeerah and Soros funded organization and deny anything that doesn't say "Israel is evil"? Is this what makes You think You know what You're talking about?

If what BtS were presenting wasn't exposed as fabrication, and if what they were saying is truth - our soldiers would simply lay their arms, however daily reality proves them wrong. As a society evenly divided between left and right with all that criticism from within (You quoted an Israeli ngo), our soldiers keep protecting us proudly -directly confronting the lies of that tiny group:


While Your Islamist heroes drown in tunnels they dig like rats and hide underneath their womens' skirts.


----------



## rylah

*Another chance? An Egyptian effort to revive Palestinian reconciliation*
01 March 2018

Reconciliation efforts are returning to Cairo. The new head of Egyptian intelligence, General Abbas Kamel, has been conducting a series of intensive talks with the Hamas leadership headed by Ismail Haniya since the 10th of the month. In fact, because of the importance of the talks, all senior Hamas figures from abroad were also summoned to Cairo, including Salah al-'Aruri, deputy head of the Hamas political bureau.

According to Egyptian sources, Egyptian intelligence did not allow the delegation led by Ismail Haniya to go to Qatar for consultations with the other members of the leadership and they were forced to come to Egypt.

Egypt wants to minimize Qatar's involvement in Palestinian issues and to allow the UAE "a foothold" in the humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.

Egypt resumed its meetings with the Hamas leadership, while the Egyptian army was conducting a major military operation against the Da'as branch in Sinai, and the meetings between Egyptian intelligence and Hamas were halted for several weeks due to the deadlock between Fatah and Hamas, General Khaled Fawzi by President al-Sisi.

The head of the new intelligence, General Abbas Kamel, is also the head of the office of President al-Sisi, and he is actually his right hand for all intents and purposes and enjoys his full trust.

As a result of the talks, an Egyptian intelligence delegation arrived from Cairo to the Gaza Strip to begin dealing with landmines that prevent the reconciliation process.

Sources in Hamas in the Gaza Strip who were in contact with the Egyptian delegation said that the talks were taking place in a positive atmosphere and that Egypt initiated this move to save the Gaza Strip from collapse due to the severe humanitarian crisis in which it is located.

The Egyptians fear that the difficult economic situation will lead to a new outbreak and a round of fighting with Israel, which could destabilize Egypt as well.

Therefore, Egypt informed the Hamas delegation that it intended to open the Rafah crossing almost permanently to the movement of residents on both sides of the border and to the passage of goods.

The Egyptians announced that they would begin to prepare a free trade zone in northern Sinai immediately after the end of the military operation against Da'ash. The Egyptian trend is to allow unlimited entry of goods into the Gaza Strip in order to reduce the dependence of the Gaza Strip on Israel.



Egypt is presenting an option - a direct counterbalance to the al-Thani Tamimi (Qatar) - Iran  collaboration with Hamas:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to be kidding me.  So Jews are now responsible for the actions of every LEO in the world?  Next you'll be saying that all Scots are responsible for the actions of my children.  (Except not.  Because not Joooooos.)
> 
> But it does confirm my earlier suspicions and claim that Arab Palestinians are incapable of accepting any responsibility for their own actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


Why do you post your dishonest nonsense?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
Click to expand...


So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations. 

That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In recognition of International Women's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.
Click to expand...

Is that the best you can do?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Israel's complicity in oppression of people around the world..."
> 
> Are you KIDDING me?  She is trying to sell the idea that Israel is oppressing people around the world?  WTF?!
> 
> Virulent, toxic antisemitism at its finest.
> 
> 
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that the best you can do?
Click to expand...


I'm simply pointing out your baseless claims confirmed by your inability to offer any corroboration. 

Your taqiyya is a gross failure. 

You're left to pointless YouTube videos and silly emoticons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The police in Ferguson were trained in Israel. So...yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that the best you can do?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm simply pointing out your baseless claims confirmed by your inability to offer any corroboration.
> 
> Your taqiyya is a gross failure.
> 
> You're left to pointless YouTube videos and silly emoticons.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to cover the fact that you do not know what you are talking about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that the best you can do?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm simply pointing out your baseless claims confirmed by your inability to offer any corroboration.
> 
> Your taqiyya is a gross failure.
> 
> You're left to pointless YouTube videos and silly emoticons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to cover the fact that you do not know what you are talking about?
Click to expand...


Obviously not. You were tasked with supporting your baseless claims and here you are, in full retreat, sidestepping around those baseless claims.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, as usual, there is nothing you can offer to support your conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and dishonest accusations.
> 
> That taqiyya of yours is not working too well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spamming the thread with your silly YouTube videos does nothing to support your fraudulent claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that the best you can do?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm simply pointing out your baseless claims confirmed by your inability to offer any corroboration.
> 
> Your taqiyya is a gross failure.
> 
> You're left to pointless YouTube videos and silly emoticons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to cover the fact that you do not know what you are talking about?
Click to expand...


That You live in some lala land, ready to single out and blame Israel on any potential police crime in the US - does not mean that YOU understand something.

This quiet well represents Palestinian mentality - ignore and blame everything on Israel.

Now in reality, even the most neutral countries don't agree with Your fantasies of entitlement to violence without consequence - this is SWITZERLAND:
 
Does Israel force their police to do something? No

Now let's look further:

*France, Britain and the US plan to improve cooperation between intelligence and police*

*Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement Cooperation*: Germany and the United States have a robust cooperative relationship on counterterrorism, law enforcement and homeland security matters. Through the Security Cooperation Group, the Department of Homeland Security and the German Federal Interior Ministry enhanced bilateral cooperation on aviation security, cyber security, countering violent extremism and transnational crime.  Germany and the United States also signed a first-of-its-kind Preventing and Combating Serious Crime (PCSC) Agreement in 2008 to allow information sharing of fingerprints on suspected criminals and terrorists.  In addition, Germany plays an important leadership role in advancing counterterrorism cooperation between the United States and the European Union.

Q.Are Germany and France complicit in any potential crime by an American policemen?
According to Your logic YES.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement Cooperation*: Germany and the United States have a robust cooperative relationship on counterterrorism, law enforcement and homeland security matters.


Indeed, that is the euphemism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement Cooperation*: Germany and the United States have a robust cooperative relationship on counterterrorism, law enforcement and homeland security matters.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is the euphemism.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you don't understand the definition of euphemism. 

Funny, indeed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement Cooperation*: Germany and the United States have a robust cooperative relationship on counterterrorism, law enforcement and homeland security matters.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is the euphemism.
Click to expand...

Funny how Islamist fans use the same words and think they can redefine 'em to the exact opposite. Because Your arguments can't stand up to the twisted standards You create.

So let me understand that logic - US police is responsible for potential crimes committed by German police?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Counterterrorism and Law Enforcement Cooperation*: Germany and the United States have a robust cooperative relationship on counterterrorism, law enforcement and homeland security matters.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is the euphemism.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you are not paying attention if you ignore the growing necessity for western nations to share data on threats posed by Islamic terrorists.

Information sharing on counter terrorism in the EU has reached an all-time high

INFORMATION SHARING ON COUNTER TERRORISM IN THE EU HAS REACHED AN ALL-TIME HIGH.



I think you will find that counter terrorism is focused on countering Islamic terrorism. Not to many attacks on public bodies by heavily armed, radical Lutherans that I can find.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Karma Nabulsi*



No No... wait a sec  

This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
GOOD!


Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER 

I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:

*PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
*Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined" 
*PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
*Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
*PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
*Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism" 
*PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"

And then she drops the:
*PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"

Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"... 

You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *







:Munich massacre - Wikipedia, 
because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
Click to expand...

I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Article In Hamas Mouthpiece Calls To Renew Suicide Attacks

*Article In Hamas Mouthpiece Calls To Renew Suicide Attacks*

_Marking the 22nd anniversary of the Jaffa Road bus bombings, perpetrated in 1996 by Hamas,[1] the movement's military wing, the 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam Brigades, posted on its website a special supplement devoted to these attacks.  The bombings, dubbed "The Holy Revenge" by Hamas, were carried out in retaliation for the January 5, 1996 killing of senior Hamas operative Yahya 'Ayyash, who was responsible for several other suicide attacks.  The special online supplement included two long articles about their planning and execution, a review of each one, photographs of their aftermath, and a video documenting one of them._

_Following publication of the supplement, Mustafa Al-Sawwaf, a columnist for the Hamas mouthpiece, published an article calling for the renewal of suicide attacks against Israel._





_The special supplement on the 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam website: "Commander Hassan Salameh discusses the 'Holy Revenge' attacks." (alqassam.net, February 25, 2018)_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gaza Protest against Facebook's Removal of Palestinian Accounts: Facebook an Accomplice in Crimes against the Palestinians
*GAZA PROTEST AGAINST FACEBOOK'S REMOVAL OF PALESTINIAN ACCOUNTS: FACEBOOK AN ACCOMPLICE IN CRIMES AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS*
March 05, 2018
Gaza Protest against Facebook's Removal of Palestinian Accounts: Facebook an Accomplice in Crimes against the Palestinians


----------



## fanger

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.
Selective Memri


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.
> 
> Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.
> 
> Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.
> Selective Memri



What "air of secrecy"? Do you read anything you cut and paste?

Try paying attention because, as usual, you're not making sense.


----------



## fanger

Read the link and all will be  Revealed


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> Read the link and all will be  Revealed



You should read the link you posted. I found it an odd claim that stuff claimed to be "secret" was posted on the Memri website.


----------



## fanger

israel is often odd


----------



## P F Tinmore

fanger said:


> israel is often odd


Israel expands its already massive bullshit machine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> israel is often odd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel expands its already massive bullshit machine.
Click to expand...


Doesn't begin to compare to Pallywood Production Studios.

They can raise the dead, you know, like magic.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestine Advocacy Project just put up billboards on Interstate 95 in Bridgeport and Stratford CT


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestine Advocacy Project just put up billboards on Interstate 95 in Bridgeport and Stratford CT



Just remember; she’s in jail so you can rage with your Jooooo hatreds.

How lucky for you.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Advocacy Project just put up billboards on Interstate 95 in Bridgeport and Stratford CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember; she’s in jail so you can rage with your Jooooo hatreds.
> 
> How lucky for you.
Click to expand...

What's with your Jooooo hatred shtick? Did you run out of anti-Semite cards?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestine Advocacy Project just put up billboards on Interstate 95 in Bridgeport and Stratford CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember; she’s in jail so you can rage with your Jooooo hatreds.
> 
> How lucky for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's with your Jooooo hatred shtick? Did you run out of anti-Semite cards?
Click to expand...


What’s with your Jooooo hatreds? Why do you hide behind teenage girls who you allow to wage the gee-had that you won’t?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> 
> israel is often odd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel expands its already massive bullshit machine.
Click to expand...


Is that You whining because none of Your arguments make ANY sense?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.
Click to expand...


Claims every argument made by an Israeli is biased.

Next posts a video by an Israeli pro-Arab NGO -

to prove he's an idiot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>


Tinnie,The Zionist Terrorist Synthetic NONE JEWS are always denying the truth and facts,that is why they try to ridicule you on every post,they do it to me BUT like you we are far too intelligent for them...keep up you Excellent Support for the Palestinian People ,you do realize that most Jews(I mean NONE JEWS the SYNTHETICS) have only been in Palestine the State they call Israel since 1948 and after,some only in the last couple of years and are Non Semitic people(mainly converted Gypo's from central Asia).

They have NO LEGAL OR MORAL CLAIM TO THIS LAND,JUST A LOAD OF MISFITS THAT EUOPE DIDN'T WANT......VIVA PALESTINE...steve


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claims every argument made by an Israeli is biased.
> 
> Next posts a video by an Israeli pro-Arab NGO -
> 
> to prove he's an idiot.
Click to expand...

One Swallow Does NOT MAKE A SUMMER Rylah,so your post is irrelevant.....WHY DON'T YOU SHOW SOME PICTURES OF JEWS SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND WOMEN........?????...you won't because to like all Synthetic/Fake Jews you are Bloody Cowards,steve


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claims every argument made by an Israeli is biased.
> 
> Next posts a video by an Israeli pro-Arab NGO -
> 
> to prove he's an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One Swallow Does NOT MAKE A SUMMER Rylah,so your post is irrelevant.....WHY DON'T YOU SHOW SOME PICTURES OF JEWS SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND WOMEN........?????...you won't because to like all Synthetic/Fake Jews you are Bloody Cowards,steve
Click to expand...


So You compare dragging bodies of Gazans on the streets by Hamas - to casualties of war? 

No wonder You can't discuss Arab pogroms before Zionism..You think it's a norm.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is  #ErdoganGirl:





*Erdoğan *invites a girl wearing army uniform to scene and tells her "*she has the flag in her pocket, inshallah she will be covered with the flag when becomes a martyr, she is ready for anything, isn't she?"*

Beside her family who've been pimping her for Islamist propaganda...
What's wrong with You P F Tinmore?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn....,, Israel offered them almost everything they asked for. All they had to do was accept it.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claims every argument made by an Israeli is biased.
> 
> Next posts a video by an Israeli pro-Arab NGO -
> 
> to prove he's an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One Swallow Does NOT MAKE A SUMMER Rylah,so your post is irrelevant.....WHY DON'T YOU SHOW SOME PICTURES OF JEWS SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND WOMEN........?????...you won't because to like all Synthetic/Fake Jews you are Bloody Cowards,steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So You compare dragging bodies of Gazans on the streets by Hamas - to casualties of war?
> 
> No wonder You can't discuss Arab pogroms before Zionism..You think it's a norm.
Click to expand...

Arab or Palestinian???????Considering the BEASTIALITY OF THE ZIONISTS SINCE 1890 AGAINST THE SEMITIC PALESTINIAN PEOPLE,YOUR INGNORANT BIAS COMMENT OF Jewish DEATHS IN COMPARISON (ANY DEATH IS DREAD)......IS A PISS IN THE OCEAN....how you Slobs have the temerity to even open your mouths on this subject shows you HAVE NO EMPATHY......go F yourself Moron


----------



## theliq

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn....,, Israel offered them almost everything they asked for. All they had to do was accept it.
Click to expand...

Except the Palestinians LAND.....Big Girl Bloomers


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No No... wait a sec
> 
> This is the funnies load of smug faced self contradictory BS I've seen in a long time.
> So a self proclaimed PLO representative complains about international cooperation on counter terrorism?
> GOOD!
> 
> 
> Let's examine just the setting - an anchor who suggest instigating an uprising inside Israel and on it's borders is interviewing a PLO representative - AND THEY give opinions on HOW TO POLICE BETTER
> 
> I don't need to address all the pompous claims by these 2 self righteous saints, just point out the self evident gems:
> 
> *PLO rep.*: "Our resistance is non-violent, purely based on solidarity"
> *Anchor:* "There're more Muslim spies being recruited by the west than members of terrorist organization combined"
> *PLO rep.*: "Gathering information doesn't work, and acting upon it to catch criminals before they get to commit the crime - is against Democracy"
> *Anchor: *"Violation of human rights is unsustainable" -talking about Israel and the West, not IJ or Hamas
> *PLO rep:* "The Western definition what's extreme has nothing to do with actual danger"
> *Anchor:* "Having a country gather information and train spies links it directly to colonialism"
> *PLO:* "Colonialism this, colonialism that, colonialism again....and at the end "invisible colonialism"
> 
> And then she drops the:
> *PLO rep.:* " Religious people, conservative Muslims are THE LEEAAST likely people to be dangerous"
> 
> Then she deceitfully translates it for the good dhimmis to learn and remember:
> PLO prep.:"Counter terrorism is simply intimidating people who make You uncomfortable, by merely what they* say*, the real problem is west has a *wrong set of vague terms and values*"...
> 
> You see P F Tinmore according to her - states shouldn't stand in the way of violent criminals until they finish their job - "it's not Democratic".
> And You see western values are so vague , that apparently her non-violent organization suffers only because of *"OTHER people WRONG set of values" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Munich massacre - Wikipedia,
> because western reluctance to  PLO example of "freedom of expression and Democracy" is only a philosophical misunderstanding in terms...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q. You didn't bring this video because You actually thought it was serious, right? Good joke.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if you look at this through Israel colored glasses, these concepts will be foreign to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claims every argument made by an Israeli is biased.
> 
> Next posts a video by an Israeli pro-Arab NGO -
> 
> to prove he's an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One Swallow Does NOT MAKE A SUMMER Rylah,so your post is irrelevant.....WHY DON'T YOU SHOW SOME PICTURES OF JEWS SLAUGHTERING PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND WOMEN........?????...you won't because to like all Synthetic/Fake Jews you are Bloody Cowards,steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So You compare dragging bodies of Gazans on the streets by Hamas - to casualties of war?
> 
> No wonder You can't discuss Arab pogroms before Zionism..You think it's a norm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab or Palestinian???????Considering the BEASTIALITY OF THE ZIONISTS SINCE 1890 AGAINST THE SEMITIC PALESTINIAN PEOPLE,YOUR INGNORANT BIAS COMMENT OF Jewish DEATHS IN COMPARISON (ANY DEATH IS DREAD)......IS A PISS IN THE OCEAN....how you Slobs have the temerity to even open your mouths on this subject shows you HAVE NO EMPATHY......go F yourself Moron
Click to expand...


All this blubbering and still no discussion about Arab Pogroms that led to Zionist uprising.


Q. How many Arab Pogroms before 1890?


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn....,, Israel offered them almost everything they asked for. All they had to do was accept it.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except the Palestinians LAND.....Big Girl Bloomers
Click to expand...


Arabs  assisted the British invasion
Arabs tried to cede the land to an Arabian Kind from Mecca.
Arabs officially called themselves "Syrians".


Jews wanted independence in Israel, Arabs wanted it to be Syria.
END OF CLAIM.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn....,, Israel offered them almost everything they asked for. All they had to do was accept it.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except the Palestinians LAND.....Big Girl Bloomers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs  assisted the British invasion
> Arabs tried to cede the land to an Arabian Kind from Mecca.
> Arabs officially called themselves "Syrians".
> 
> 
> Jews wanted independence in Israel, Arabs wanted it to be Syria.
> END OF CLAIM.
Click to expand...

Silly Boy R,Palestinians are Semitic people,not Arabs as you think,totally different.....you are living in a parallel Universe down their in Zionstan...LOL


----------



## theliq

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn....,, Israel offered them almost everything they asked for. All they had to do was accept it.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except the Palestinians LAND.....Big Girl Bloomers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs  assisted the British invasion
> Arabs tried to cede the land to an Arabian Kind from Mecca.
> Arabs officially called themselves "Syrians".
> 
> 
> Jews wanted independence in Israel, Arabs wanted it to be Syria.
> END OF CLAIM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Silly Boy R,Palestinians are Semitic people,not Arabs as you think,totally different.....you are living in a parallel Universe down their in Zionstan...LOL
Click to expand...

CLAIM UNRESOLVED


----------



## rylah

Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa Village Profile
*
History*
Deir al ‘Asal al Fauqa is an ancient village , the name of the village is derived from the word “Honey”, as historically, village residents used to keep bees and produce honey. Village officials remark that most of the families in the village have *roots to the Arabian Peninsula from the Shamar tribe.
http://vprofile.arij.org/hebron/pdfs/Deir al 'Asal al Fauqa_pr_en.pdf*








*Shammar tribe*
The tribe of Shammar (Arabic: شمّر _Šammar_) is an Arab Qahtanite tribe, descended from the ancient tribe of Tayy. It is one of the largest and most influential Arab tribes, with an estimated around *12 million members in the world: 3 million in Iraq, over 6.5 million in Saudi Arabia(concentrated inHa'il), a Syrian population thought to exceed 0.5 million, and an unknown number in Jordan,Kuwait, and Qatar*.[1] The current seat of the* tribe's leadership is in the city of **Mosul** in Northern Iraq. *In its "golden age",* around 1850, the tribe ruled much of central and northern Arabia from Riyadh to the frontiers of Syria and the vast area known as Al Jazira in Northern Iraq....*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. .Should every Arabian tribe get a piece of of that tiny land??
Q..When are Jews getting back their lands in Medina?


----------



## rylah

PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas 




Abbas tribe

The *Banu Abbas* (Arabic: بنو عباس‎) are an Arabian tribe, descendants of Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. The caliphs of the Banu Abbas served as heads of the Muslim community for a period of five centuries (from 750 until the sack of Baghdad in 1258).[2] This was the Abbasid caliphate.


Another Caliph? No thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How appropriate.


----------



## Hollie

Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
by Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">


*Fatah wants more murderers:*

*Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"*
*"We miss you... 
our people needs men like you"*

*In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":

*"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."* 
[Facebook page of the Fatah
 Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
March 2, 2018]


Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."

Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.




I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.

And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh


You forgot to mention the 3 Jewish Scyco's who abducted a Palestinian Teenager and BURN'T HIM TO DEATH a couple of years ago.What happened to these 3 Vermin,probably nothing but you could let me know....and therein lies the truth.....


----------



## Hollie

theliq said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to mention the 3 Jewish Scyco's who abducted a Palestinian Teenager and BURN'T HIM TO DEATH a couple of years ago.What happened to these 3 Vermin,probably nothing but you could let me know....and therein lies the truth.....
Click to expand...


You FoRgot tO MENTION...... thaT you’re uNAble to addreSS.....my pOSted cOmMents.......


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to mention the 3 Jewish Scyco's who abducted a Palestinian Teenager and BURN'T HIM TO DEATH a couple of years ago.What happened to these 3 Vermin,probably nothing but you could let me know....and therein lies the truth.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You FoRgot tO MENTION...... thaT you’re uNAble to addreSS.....my pOSted cOmMents.......
Click to expand...

YOU HAVE NO ANSWER TO MY POST THEN....TyPiCaL ZIONIST COPOUT.....You people speak with Fork-Tongue.....LOL,what's new


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Where the Line is Drawn: Crossing Boundaries in Occupied Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh


WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian author & activist Ali Abunimah speaking about #IsraeliApartheidWeek in South Africa*

**


----------



## rylah

*Abu Tuameh: "More harmful to Palestinian cause than helping it"*

"I have been surveying the Palestinian issue for 30 years," says Abu Toameh, "I have seen the phenomenon on campuses abroad in the US and Europe, I have to note that I feel more comfortable in Ramallah with Fatah and in Tulkarm with Hamas than with those organizations."

Abu Toameh said that he contacted these organizations and asked to know what their intentions were. *"I asked them if I would stop working in Israel, would you pay me a salary, they replied 'no,' I asked them if I would stop buying Israeli milk, would you build a dairy in Judea and Samaria? They replied 'no,' I asked them if I would stop working in the settlements. Would you give me a job? They answered 'no,'* "says Abu Toameh.

He says that these organizations do not really know what they mean. "They want more to harm Israel than to help the Palestinian cause," says Abu Toameh. In Judea and Samaria and in East Jerusalem, Abu Toameh says the phenomenon is not known, and even those who know it do not abide.


----------



## rylah

*Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
*




Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.

The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

"The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.

The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.

"The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia





rylah said:


> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.


 So true.



rylah said:


> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.


Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
Click to expand...


When have Muhammedans wanted peace?

"Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
"Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Mar. 13, 2018 

*"Women can die in a more spectacular way
 than men die"*

*Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
"We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*

*Fatah on leader of those killers:
"The legend that doesn't die" 
"The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
*
*The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory" 
*
*Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
Click to expand...


WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
Click to expand...

If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
Click to expand...


You usual, cowardly retreat.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian author & activist Ali Abunimah speaking about #IsraeliApartheidWeek in South Africa*
> 
> **



Not surprising that muhammedans would travel to South Africa to find a fascist ideologue to share their pathology.

Racist South African Political Leader Julius Malema: 'Go After the White Man… We Are Cutting the Throat of Whiteness'


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
Click to expand...



Says he's not interested in name calling
Cheers when Abbas call US diplomat a "son of a dog".


Hope one half of Your brain will eventually start communicating with the other one day.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have Muhammedans wanted peace?
> 
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 13, 2018
> 
> *"Women can die in a more spectacular way
> than men die"*
> 
> *Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
> "We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*
> 
> *Fatah on leader of those killers:
> "The legend that doesn't die"
> "The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
> *
> *The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory"
> *
> *Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *
Click to expand...

Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says he's not interested in name calling
> Cheers when Abbas call US diplomat a "son of a dog".
> 
> 
> Hope one half of Your brain will eventually start communicating with the other one day.
Click to expand...

What would you call a criminal who funds illegal settlements through fraudulent charitable organizations?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.



What an unjust world that Your Islamist heroes are not allowed to murder.

Worthy of a new Day Of Rage...oh wait


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
Click to expand...


Tinmore whined:
“If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”

Tinmore whined:
“Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”
Click to expand...

What are these assholes plan for peace?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says he's not interested in name calling
> Cheers when Abbas call US diplomat a "son of a dog".
> 
> 
> Hope one half of Your brain will eventually start communicating with the other one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would you call a criminal who funds illegal settlements through fraudulent charitable organizations?
Click to expand...


Mahmoud Abbas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says he's not interested in name calling
> Cheers when Abbas call US diplomat a "son of a dog".
> 
> 
> Hope one half of Your brain will eventually start communicating with the other one day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What would you call a criminal who funds illegal settlements through fraudulent charitable organizations?
Click to expand...


The P.A.

Qatar, The EU, And Illegal Palestinian Settlements


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are these assholes plan for peace?
Click to expand...


Tinmore whined:
“If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are these assholes plan for peace?
Click to expand...


Does it matter? 
Abbas has already rejected it before being brought to the table.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have Muhammedans wanted peace?
> 
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 13, 2018
> 
> *"Women can die in a more spectacular way
> than men die"*
> 
> *Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
> "We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*
> 
> *Fatah on leader of those killers:
> "The legend that doesn't die"
> "The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
> *
> *The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory"
> *
> *Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.
Click to expand...



Islamic terrorism carries consequences.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are these assholes plan for peace?
Click to expand...


Good question.

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

The muhammedan peace plan. 

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have Muhammedans wanted peace?
> 
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 13, 2018
> 
> *"Women can die in a more spectacular way
> than men die"*
> 
> *Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
> "We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*
> 
> *Fatah on leader of those killers:
> "The legend that doesn't die"
> "The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
> *
> *The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory"
> *
> *Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have Muhammedans wanted peace?
> 
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 13, 2018
> 
> *"Women can die in a more spectacular way
> than men die"*
> 
> *Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
> "We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*
> 
> *Fatah on leader of those killers:
> "The legend that doesn't die"
> "The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
> *
> *The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory"
> *
> *Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, another terrorist card.

What else you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.”
> 
> Tinmore whined:
> “Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are these assholes plan for peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does it matter?
> Abbas has already rejected it before being brought to the table.
Click to expand...

Every "offer" to the Palestinians for the last hundred has sucked. What is new now?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahmoud Abbas calls US ambassador 'son of a dog'
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas labelled the US ambassador to Israel David Friedman a "son of a dog" on Monday during an attack on Donald Trump's policies.
> 
> The scathing comments come with US President Trump still expected to launch a plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians despite Abbas boycotting his administration over his controversial recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> The White House later Monday slammed Abbas's "insults," saying he must choose between hate and peace.
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The US ambassador in Tel Aviv is a settler and a son of a dog," Abbas said in comments to Palestinian leaders in Ramallah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So true.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The time has come for President Abbas to choose between hateful rhetoric and concrete and practical efforts to improve the quality of life of his people and lead them to peace and prosperity," top Trump aide Jason Greenblatt said in a terse statement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the Palestinians are going to get peace out of either one of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have Muhammedans wanted peace?
> 
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> "Women can die in a more spectacular way than men die" - Fatah celebrates terrorist murderer Dalal Mughrabi
> by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 13, 2018
> 
> *"Women can die in a more spectacular way
> than men die"*
> 
> *Fatah on killers of 12 Israeli children and 25 adults:
> "We stand in honor and appreciation of these thunderous souls, who ascended and hovered in Heaven to dwell by their Lord, cast their shadow, and entered the heart, soul, and memory of every Palestinian and of every Arab who belongs to Palestine"*
> 
> *Fatah on leader of those killers:
> "The legend that doesn't die"
> "The Martyr hero Dalal Mughrabi"
> *
> *The murder of 37 Israeli civilians was "bravest victory"
> *
> *Dying while murdering 37 Israeli civilians is a "spectacular way to die" *
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always whines about chickenfeed. The Palestinians cannot kill like Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorism carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, another terrorist card.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Another of your cowardly retreats.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Digging tunnels for Allah.

TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins

*TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
March 17, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018


The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorists burrowing into israeli territory is not defensive.

You need help with your pathology, or at least bigger Pom Poms for flailing about in celebration of your Islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.
Click to expand...


Can I get you a shovel, sweetie?

Israeli military destroys Gaza tunnel, underground military complex - CNN


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I get you a shovel, sweetie?
> 
> Israeli military destroys Gaza tunnel, underground military complex - CNN
Click to expand...

That proves my point.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> What is new now?



I don't know, haven't seen the deal yet.
But I can only assume that the main focus will be on a broader regional perspective.
Beyond PLO, Hamas, Egypt and Jordan as usual, other Arab states are involved.

No-one even considered Abbas would take a different stance. He could not sign for Hamas, and they could not sign for PLO. 
Only a broader middle eastern leverage can bring the kids to a level of listening.

Again only speculating.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.
Click to expand...


Only if You equate  shoveling more dead bodies from sand as defense.

It's more of a suicidal honor thing, because with each tunnel mission success Gazans suffer even more. Logic is not the strongest talent of Islamists.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Every "offer" to the Palestinians for the last hundred has sucked.








The Caliph wants Spain too?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Digging tunnels for Allah.
> 
> TV Report on Hamas Tunnel-Digging Unit in Gaza: Resistance Courses Like Blood Through Their Veins
> 
> *TV REPORT ON HAMAS TUNNEL-DIGGING UNIT IN GAZA: RESISTANCE COURSES LIKE BLOOD THROUGH THEIR VEINS*
> March 17, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> The tunnels are a critical part of Palestinian defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can I get you a shovel, sweetie?
> 
> Israeli military destroys Gaza tunnel, underground military complex - CNN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That proves my point.
Click to expand...


Only in the twisted, alternate reality you dwell in.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*THE SECRET AGENDA BEHIND MUSLIM WOMEN'S DAY*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*KinderUSA Celebrates 10 years with Dr. Laila Al-Marayati*

**


----------



## rylah

*FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*






Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.

The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.

He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.

Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *THE SECRET AGENDA BEHIND MUSLIM WOMEN'S DAY*



Would she even know about women's day if she lived in one of the Muslim countries? No
But she invents an exclusive day only for Muslim women, not to raise real issues about the status of women in Muslim society... *but* *to give her another excuse to blame the West.

*
When will the gullible infidels realize?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *THE SECRET AGENDA BEHIND MUSLIM WOMEN'S DAY*



I thought it was a secret.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *KinderUSA Celebrates 10 years with Dr. Laila Al-Marayati*
> 
> **



Food for Kids or Terror Funding?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.


Define smuggling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
Click to expand...


Define how you don’t understand.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define how you don’t understand.
Click to expand...

I was just wondering if y'all do.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define how you don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just wondering if y'all do.
Click to expand...


Ya’ Allah but your excuses are weak.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Huwaida Arraf Speaks about Rachel Corrie & Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define how you don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just wondering if y'all do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah but your excuses are weak.
Click to expand...

OK, so you will duck the question like you always do.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
Click to expand...



More of your legal shenanigans. 

Once again attempting to make illegal actions somehow "legal" because "resistance", while trying to claim Israel's actions to protect her citizens are "illegal".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Define how you don’t understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was just wondering if y'all do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah but your excuses are weak.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so you will duck the question like you always do.
Click to expand...


What question? 

You will defer to cutting and pasting silly YouTube videos like you always do?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Huwaida Arraf Speaks about Rachel Corrie & Palestine*
> 
> **



Why are attempting to parade dead bodies around?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
Click to expand...


The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .


----------



## Hollie

Watching these disasters of Arab-Moslem stuttering, mumbling and self contradiction would be an embarrassment to thinking humans everywhere, except in the arena of misfits called the “Islamist Hood.” 







PA: Jewish US Ambassador Friedman is an Antisemite - PMW Bulletins

PMW Bulletins
PA: Jewish US Ambassador Friedman is an Antisemite
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Mar. 21, 2018 " 

Share |



Ignoring the fact that the term Antisemitism refers specifically to Jew-hatred, the Palestinian Authority has for years claimed that they cannot be accused of Antisemitism because Arabs themselves are considered “Semites.” Taking this linguistic distortion a step further, the PA Ministry of Foreign Affairs is now demonizing Friedman’s positions about the PA as expressions of “the ugliest kind of Antisemitism.”

The PA has repeatedly demonized Ambassador Freidman. Abbas' Advisor on Religious and Islamic Affairs Mahmoud Al-Habbash attacked a statement by Friedman in September saying that a “satanic urge” is what drives Friedman.


----------



## rylah

Le Monde's correspondent in Jerusalem:
"The PA might consider the #Gaza strip as a "rebel entity", Mahmoud al-Aloul, Fatah 's n°2, tells us. Still only a threat, but it would imply cutting all funds."

Piotr Smolar on Twitter





(Mahmoud al-Aloul)


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
Click to expand...

OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.

Where does the term smuggling fit in here?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
Click to expand...


What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
(For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?



Where it is in Israel.  

Also....link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
Click to expand...

I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.

However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.

Again, where does smuggling fit in here?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FRENCH EMBASSY WORKERS ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING WEAPONS TO GAZA*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two French Embassy workers along with five Palestinians have been indicted on charges of smuggling dozens of weapons from the Hamas-run Gaza Strip to the West Bank.
> 
> The Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) cleared for release on Monday that 24-year-old French citizen Romain Franck, who worked as a driver in the French Consulate in east Jerusalem, was part of a cell that smuggled 70 pistols and two assault rifles through the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border on five different occasions.
> 
> He is accused of using his diplomatic vehicle to avoid security checks at the Erez border crossing as well as using another vehicle with diplomatic plates – a Citroen that was for his personal use – to drive through the Kalandiya checkpoint to get from Jerusalem to Ramallah.
> 
> Franck was charged with importing, trading, carrying, transporting and possession of weapons, as well as with fraudulently obtaining benefits under aggravated circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
Click to expand...


“However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”

Classic Tinmore’ese. 

“Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Leave the pre-teenage girls alone. 

Do we need to get a restraining order?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define smuggling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
Click to expand...

Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.

You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*APARTHEID Israel Palestine - Endless conflict Interview w. Diana Butto*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi One-on-One on President Donald Trump's Decision. #Breaking #DonaldTrump*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## Linkiloo

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10 - PMW Bulletins
> 
> PMW Bulletins
> Murderers are needed, says Fatah, glorifying killer of 10
> by Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> Mar. 15, 2018 " id="ctl00_ctl00_mainContent_ctlCurDoc_td_print_email" valign="middle" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial; font-size: 12px;">
> 
> 
> *Fatah wants more murderers:*
> 
> *Murderer of 10 is "heroic prisoner"
> "We miss you...
> our people needs men like you"*
> 
> *In letter from prison, murderer called for "resistance" - A Palestinian euphemism for violence and terror *
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> A branch of Abbas' Fatah Movement has announced that the Palestinian people needs murderers. In a post on Facebook glorifying murderer Thaer Hammad who killed 10 Israelis in 2002, Fatah in Bethlehem stated that the people "needs men like you":
> 
> *"Heroic prisoner Thaer Hammad, we miss you. Allah willing you will soon be among us, our people needs men like you."*
> [Facebook page of the Fatah
> Movement - Bethlehem Branch,
> March 2, 2018]
> 
> 
> Palestinian Media Watch exposed a video by Fatah, which visually presented murderer Hammad as a successful agent on a military mission. The video glorified the murder of the 10 Israelis as "one of the most famous operations."
> 
> Thaer Hammad is serving 11 life sentences for murdering 3 Israeli civilians and 7 soldiers by shooting them with a sniper rifle from a hilltop in Wadi Al-Haramiya between Ramallah and Nablus on March 3, 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm never surprised at the pathologies that grip islamics and the way these low-IQ halfwits will destroy on behalf of their weird, sociopathic deity and his poorly written hate manual. But I'm free. I'm free from the uncontrollable, hateful rage that they are consumed by night and day. And when I see such murderous retrogrades, I'm free to shake my head for a moment, and then move on with my life, rather than hysterically running out of the house, firing shots into the air, screaming for blood.
> 
> And besides, at the end of the day, a true-blue American kafir has got to enjoy a chuckle at the expense of these overgrown disaffected teenagers for Allah. Why? Because, in spite of all their fury and efforts at lashing out against the infidel, their homeboys are still whiling away their days in a hot kafir jail cell, far from the jihad and martyrdom, and there isn't a thing that Allah can do about it. heh
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, so many terrorist cards. Must be a propaganda site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW. Another of your spectacularly cowardly retreats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If all they have is name calling, I have no interest in their site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says he's not interested in name calling
> Cheers when Abbas call US diplomat a "son of a dog".
> 
> 
> Hope one half of Your brain will eventually start communicating with the other one day.
Click to expand...

So true. The irony is just dumbfounding. This fella can't tell how illogical he is.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The act of participation in fraud, arms trade and/or trafficking .
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
Click to expand...


This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
 but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.

 In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.



In other words - smoke and mirrors.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so Palestinian law states ...




Sharia law is irrelevant in this case.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.




Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so Palestinian law states that the Palestinians have the right to bear arms. It also states that it is legal to import and manufacture weapons.
> 
> Where does the term smuggling fit in here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
Click to expand...

What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Palestinian law are you speaking of?  Link.
> (For instance, the second amendment of the Constitution for U.S. law.)
> 
> 
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
Click to expand...


The case is not about importing goods,
 but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*

Good luck with the PR.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*

*



*
*Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> It is still not illegal to import weapons.



Link?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> **



After completing her sentence after of moth that is.
At lest she won't get a free degree (paid by Israelis) like most her fellows do in prison.

8 month for slapping a soldier is enough. Till next time.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
Click to expand...

So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember it clearly. Israel was pissed. Oslo required all Palestinian legislation be approved by Israel. When Oslo expired in 1999, Palestine passed these laws. No reference to these laws can be found on the internet anymore.
> 
> However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.
> 
> Again, where does smuggling fit in here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
Click to expand...


I don't think Tinmore  likes Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Where is it illegal?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> **




From the blog you linked to:

“Ahed will get the minimum sentence of 8 months”

How devastated you must be. A longer sentence would have better served your interests. 

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
Click to expand...


Exactly. 

Link?


----------



## Mindful

What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?


----------



## Hollie

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think Tinmore  likes Israel.
Click to expand...


I think he likes himself even less.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
Click to expand...


Where is it legal for diplomatic employees to traffic arms on the streets?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is it legal for diplomatic employees to traffic arms on the streets?
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> “However, even in the absence of any laws making these things legal, there is no Palestinian law making them illegal.”
> 
> Classic Tinmore’ese.
> 
> “Even if it’s not true, that doesn’t mean it’s, you know, not true.”
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.
Click to expand...

This is an infantile hissy fit.

Fraud and trafficking arms is NO-ONE'S right in the civilized world.

Islamists are not exclusive in this case, neither are diplomats.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where is it legal for diplomatic employees to traffic arms on the streets?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Quack!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?


Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
Click to expand...


You're not looking.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me the law making importing weapons illegal.
> 
> You can't. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fraud and trafficking arms is NO-ONE'S right in the civilized world.
Click to expand...

Nobody has the right to deny people self defense.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fraud and trafficking arms is NO-ONE'S right in the civilized world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has the right to deny people self defense.
Click to expand...


Woo Hoo.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
Click to expand...


Actually, your insensate Joooooo hatreds demonstrate otherwise.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fraud and trafficking arms is NO-ONE'S right in the civilized world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has the right to deny people self defense.
Click to expand...


Ok, yet no-one has a right to traffic arms on the streets and use fraud. PA forces have their weapons registered as any police.
Simple.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a case of importing  as You try to conflate,
> but misuse of diplomatic privileges and fraudulent trafficking of arms.
> 
> In civilized countries,usually imports are conducted officially by relevant bodies and legal forms, not by foreign consulate drivers who sell arm on the streets.
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter? It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The case is not about importing goods,
> but fraudulent trafficking and selling arms on the streets - through what is called* "Cultural Center" in Gaza.*
> 
> Good luck with the PR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Israel is always trying to deny the Palestinians their rights. There are no international sanctions for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fraud and trafficking arms is NO-ONE'S right in the civilized world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has the right to deny people self defense.
Click to expand...


The IDF agrees. 

Pass that on to your Islamic terrorist homies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, your insensate Joooooo hatreds demonstrate otherwise.
Click to expand...

What's with the Joooooo hatred? Did you run out of anti-Semite cards?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
Click to expand...


You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.

Quiet the opposite of "neutral".


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> supporting Islamists for 9 years


Links?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> supporting Islamists for 9 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


What have links ever done for you?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> supporting Islamists for 9 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


You joined 9 years ago, post here daily, ridiculing any notion of Jewish rights.  unconditionally promoting Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist franchises while calling America a terrorist state.

Aside from constantly denying Israelis their rights, have You ever posted anything remotely positive about Israel or Jews EVER?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> supporting Islamists for 9 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You joined 9 years ago, post here daily, ridiculing any notion of Jewish rights.  unconditionally promoting Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist franchises while calling America a terrorist state.
> 
> Aside from constantly denying Jews any rights, have You ever posted anything remotely positive about Israel or Jews EVER?
Click to expand...

Your point? When have I ever promoted Islam?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> supporting Islamists for 9 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You joined 9 years ago, post here daily, ridiculing any notion of Jewish rights.  unconditionally promoting Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist franchises while calling America a terrorist state.
> 
> Aside from constantly denying Jews any rights, have You ever posted anything remotely positive about Israel or Jews EVER?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your point? When have I ever promoted Islam?
Click to expand...


When You promoted Sharia, intifada on the WH, Jihad and other wonders of the Islamist menu.
My point is You're an exposed fraud.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a biased fraud -  pushing Islamists rhethorics for 9 years on a daily basis. And ONLY that side while denying any rights of the Jews.
> Quiet the opposite of "neutral".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> supporting Islamists for 9 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You joined 9 years ago, post here daily, ridiculing any notion of Jewish rights.  unconditionally promoting Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist franchises while calling America a terrorist state.
> 
> Aside from constantly denying Jews any rights, have You ever posted anything remotely positive about Israel or Jews EVER?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your point? When have I ever promoted Islam?
Click to expand...



So it's about you now, is it?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh look a convict...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look a convict...
Click to expand...

In a kangaroo court. No biggie.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look a convict...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a kangaroo court. No biggie.
Click to expand...


What sentence do You imagine she'd get in Qatar, her homeland's Sharia court system?







Tribes of Arabia: Tamimi tribe


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has Israel ever done to you, Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing. I am just a neutral observer calling them as I see them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, your insensate Joooooo hatreds demonstrate otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's with the Joooooo hatred? Did you run out of anti-Semite cards?
Click to expand...


Why the "de'Nile"? Did you run out of YouTube videos?


----------



## rylah

US: We will not transfer aid to the PA until it stops paying salaries to terrorists





In bipartisan support, the US Congress approved the Taylor Force Law until it ceases to pay salaries to terrorists and stifles terror. The law was approved within the framework of the American "Arrangements Law" which will be finally approved in the next two days. Taylor Force was an American citizen who was murdered in a terrorist attack on the promenade in Jaffa in March 2016.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> US: We will not transfer aid to the PA until it stops paying salaries to terrorists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In bipartisan support, the US Congress approved the Taylor Powers Law, which states that the US government will not provide any assistance to the Palestinian Authority until it ceases to pay salaries to terrorists and stifles terror. The law was approved within the framework of the American "Arrangements Law" which will be finally approved in the next two days. Taylor Force was an American citizen who was murdered in a terrorist attack on the promenade in Jaffa in March 2016.



Saddam used to pay $30,000 per family who produced a suicide bomber.


----------



## rylah

*Exchanges of fire between Hamas forces and Salafis west of Nusriyat in Gaza*





غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter:
"# Urgent: A policeman (Hamas) was killed during a clash in Al-Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza Strip, where injuries continue to reach Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Hospital, most of them in serious cases."

شبكة قدس الإخبارية on Twitter:
"Exchange of fire in Nusseirat with information on the presence of injuries from the security services (Hamas) during the attempt to arrest accused Anas Abu Khousa." *(video inside)*

فلسطين الآن on Twitter:
"Martyrs Ziad al-Hawajri and Hammad Abu Sourih of security elements who rose during a clash with wanted persons in the bombing of the convoy of the Prime Minister in the central Gaza Strip"
*(warning: link contains graphic images)*





شبكة قدس  | عاجل on Twitter:
"Urgent: Security forces (Hamas) declare the closure of the Nuseirat refugee camp in the center of the Gaza Strip completely and to prevent entry or exit."


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> *Exchanges of fire between Hamas forces and Salafis west of Nusriyat in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter:
> "# Urgent: A policeman (Hamas) was killed during a clash in Al-Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza Strip, where injuries continue to reach Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Hospital, most of them in serious cases."
> 
> شبكة قدس الإخبارية on Twitter:
> "Exchange of fire in Nusseirat with information on the presence of injuries from the security services (Hamas) during the attempt to arrest accused Anas Abu Khousa." *(video inside)*
> 
> فلسطين الآن on Twitter:
> "Martyrs Ziad al-Hawajri and Hammad Abu Sourih of security elements who rose during a clash with wanted persons in the bombing of the convoy of the Prime Minister in the central Gaza Strip"
> *(warning: link contains graphic images)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> شبكة قدس  | عاجل on Twitter:
> "Urgent: Security forces (Hamas) declare the closure of the Nuseirat refugee camp in the center of the Gaza Strip completely and to prevent entry or exit."



If this is what the Arabs do to each other, can you imagine what they would do to Jews if they had all the power?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exchanges of fire between Hamas forces and Salafis west of Nusriyat in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter:
> "# Urgent: A policeman (Hamas) was killed during a clash in Al-Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza Strip, where injuries continue to reach Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Hospital, most of them in serious cases."
> 
> شبكة قدس الإخبارية on Twitter:
> "Exchange of fire in Nusseirat with information on the presence of injuries from the security services (Hamas) during the attempt to arrest accused Anas Abu Khousa." *(video inside)*
> 
> فلسطين الآن on Twitter:
> "Martyrs Ziad al-Hawajri and Hammad Abu Sourih of security elements who rose during a clash with wanted persons in the bombing of the convoy of the Prime Minister in the central Gaza Strip"
> *(warning: link contains graphic images)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> شبكة قدس  | عاجل on Twitter:
> "Urgent: Security forces (Hamas) declare the closure of the Nuseirat refugee camp in the center of the Gaza Strip completely and to prevent entry or exit."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is what the Arabs do to each other, can you imagine what they would do to Jews if they had all the power?
Click to expand...


We know with certainty what happens to Jews and Christians (and all religious minorities) when Moslems are the majority. There is the inevitable violence, discrimination and suppression of those minorities.

Whatever tribe / subdivision of Islamism one wishes to examine across the Islamist middle east, we have only to look at the examples set by the moslem world in order to come to conclusions about islam. The fact is, the only external example of islam we have is moslems. If one is going to come to conclusions about such matters as forced religion, rampant discrimination, institutionalization of misogyny, the utter contempt for non-islamics and rejection of modern conventions,  the moslem world provides those examples everywhere.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

^^^^^ This "thing" you have for pre-teen girls is disturbing.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
Click to expand...


Article 19 of the Firearms and Ammunition Law No. 2 of 1998

_Import and export of firearms shall require a permit from the Ministry specifying the point, date and destination of import or export, pursuant to the provisions in this law.  
_
No permit = not legal.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Article 19 of the Firearms and Ammunition Law No. 2 of 1998
> 
> _Import and export of firearms shall require a permit from the Ministry specifying the point, date and destination of import or export, pursuant to the provisions in this law.
> _
> No permit = not legal.
Click to expand...


In which document is that law written?  The Oslo accords?


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Article 19 of the Firearms and Ammunition Law No. 2 of 1998
> 
> _Import and export of firearms shall require a permit from the Ministry specifying the point, date and destination of import or export, pursuant to the provisions in this law.
> _
> No permit = not legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In which document is that law written?  The Oslo accords?
Click to expand...


Its a Palestinian law written by the official government representatives of the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still not illegal to import weapons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is it illegal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Article 19 of the Firearms and Ammunition Law No. 2 of 1998
> 
> _Import and export of firearms shall require a permit from the Ministry specifying the point, date and destination of import or export, pursuant to the provisions in this law.
> _
> No permit = not legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In which document is that law written?  The Oslo accords?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **



Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat Campaign to Free Ahmad Sa'adat*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
Click to expand...

Sure. That is why I post stuff.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
Click to expand...


Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
Click to expand...


Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
*
As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
I basically have no argument with that.

Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.

Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,

Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...and I really mean peaceful ways, not deleting Israel or taking Gaza and the WB. 2 people rule themselves separately?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khaled Barakat Campaign to Free Ahmad Sa'adat*
> 
> **



Other than Islamic terrorist Pom Pom flailers, why would anyone want another Islamic terrorist misfit running loose?


----------



## rylah

Boy if we can agree with P F Tinmore on something in a while,
this forum is not in vain. hh


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
Click to expand...

Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
Click to expand...


Ok, just from the top of it,
establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.

Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.

I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore You don't have to answer right now. Take Your time, think about it.
I'm going to sleep 5:33 in Galilee. 

Have good night all. 
Hope for more agreements.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?



Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met. 

The needs of Israel are:  

safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
recognition as a distinct ethnic people
recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:

safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
recognition as a distinct ethnic people
recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
(In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).


Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.


----------



## Linkiloo

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Three reasons why Israel backed down, and Ahed Tamimi will walk free*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After completing her sentence after of moth that is.
> At lest she won't get a free degree (paid by Israelis) like most her fellows do in prison.
> 
> 8 month for slapping a soldier is enough. Till next time.
Click to expand...

She'll be 18 soon and she'll die a martyr no doubt. It's a predictible career in her environment where parents abuse children and raise terrorrists


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met.
> 
> The needs of Israel are:
> 
> safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:
> 
> safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> (In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).
> 
> 
> Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Peace is the cessation of conflict.


Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice. ~ MLK


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met.
> 
> The needs of Israel are:
> 
> safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:
> 
> safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> (In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).
> 
> 
> Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice. ~ MLK
Click to expand...



Indeed.

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory). Hamas Charter.

Islamic fascist “justice”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna discuss the video, without slogans?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
Click to expand...

From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.

They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **





P F Tinmore said:


> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **



He talks about the “ peace process” and what Trump has to offer which is nothing( according to him) What are the Palestinians “ offering” and how can the U.S. be a “ mediator” with the all or nothing mentality? Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. They are insisting on getting ALL  demands because they know they are not going.to get everything they demand.
  Hamas has even stated Jews have no right to pray at the Western Wall


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about the “ peace process” and what Trump has to offer which is nothing( according to him) What are the Palestinians “ offering” and how can the U.S. be a “ mediator” with the all or nothing mentality? Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. They are insisting on getting ALL  demands because they know they are not going.to get everything they demand.
> Hamas has even stated Jews have no right to pray at the Western Wall
Click to expand...



If I am not mistaken it was even proposed to Abbas that Jerusalem be declared an  International City, something that was supposed to have happened in 1948 but of course Abbas shot it down .


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti: Palestinian Human Rights Advocate on Jerusalem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ramzy Baroud and the Palestinian Narrative*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Omar Barghouti: Palestinian Human Rights Advocate on Jerusalem*
> 
> **



He stated there is no Jewish Sovereignty over ANY part of Jerusalem which of course would include West Jerusalem . Who does it belong to then; The Arabs? If that’s the case there shouldn’t be any Palestinian Sovereignty over E. Jerusalem! He talks about “ oppression” since 1948 yet trying to destroy and eliminate Israel is OK. The Palestinian mindset .


----------



## P F Tinmore

The leader of the Palestinian journalist s' Union, Nasser Abu Bakar, issued the official press card to Janna Jihad.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The leader of the Palestinian journalist s' Union, Nasser Abu Bakar, issued the official press card to Janna Jihad.



Which has NOTHING to do with his post where the speaker stated Israel doesn’t have Sovereignty over W. Jerusalem but the Palestinians should have it over E. Jerusalem? Lol.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met.
> 
> The needs of Israel are:
> 
> safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:
> 
> safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> (In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).
> 
> 
> Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice. ~ MLK
Click to expand...



I realize that. Hence my next sentence. It's an acknowledgment that the needs of the parties to the conflict have been satisfied.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met.
> 
> The needs of Israel are:
> 
> safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:
> 
> safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> (In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).
> 
> 
> Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice. ~ MLK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I realize that. Hence my next sentence. It's an acknowledgment that the needs of the parties to the conflict have been satisfiedK
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.  It is an agreement of mutual recognition and a declaration that each people's needs have been met.
> 
> The needs of Israel are:
> 
> safety and security of the Jewish people (as well as all Israelis)
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of Jewish history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> It seems to me that the needs of the Arab Palestinians are the same:
> 
> safety, security and non-interference by another sovereign
> recognition as a distinct ethnic people
> recognition of long history in that land which imparts a moral right to sovereign self-determination in that place
> some territory upon which to bring about sovereignty
> (In addition, we might add -- to both lists -- some sort of provision for return).
> 
> 
> Indeed, it would seem that these criteria would apply to ALL peoples seeking recognition, sovereignty and peace.  Safety.  Recognition.  Self-determination.  Territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the cessation of conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice. ~ MLK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I realize that. Hence my next sentence. It's an acknowledgment that the needs of the parties to the conflict have been satisfied.
Click to expand...


It’s not going to happen. The Palestinians have stated they refuse to come to the table and negotiate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*
> 
> **



Indeed, you must be devastated. She is much more valuable to you as a propaganda tool while in jail. 

Have you considered petitioning the Jooooooos to possibly keep her in jail longer than eight months?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*



Somehow, I see the _Great Satan_™️ policy toward the Arab-Moslem welfare cheats as being one of _dictating_ policy while our contribution toward the Islamic terrorist welfare fraud being reduced further.

But thanks for another silly YouTube video.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*



Yawn..... Too bad the Arabs don’t feel that way about the Israelis. Another silly Video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rami Khouri: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*




Its interesting that she says, "20% of Israelis are Palestinians".  It would be the equivalent of saying, "20% of Americans are Canadians".  Its nonsense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Diana Buttu discusses the Trump-Abbas meeting*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*




"I thought it was a Jewish State.  You're right there.  At the essence.  How then can it be a Jewish State and still protect the rights of non-Jews? How can you on the one hand maintain a supremacist ideology and guarantee equality?"

She poses an excellent question.  (Unfortunately, she only poses that question about the Jewish state, rather than posing it about every state.)  If one was to be objective about that question, one would have to ask if equality can be achieved in ANY state where there is a minority population which is somehow "other" than the dominant culture.

She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous. 

I wonder how she would have other countries address that issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I thought it was a Jewish State.  You're right there.  At the essence.  How then can it be a Jewish State and still protect the rights of non-Jews? How can you on the one hand maintain a supremacist ideology and guarantee equality?"
> 
> She poses an excellent question.  (Unfortunately, she only poses that question about the Jewish state, rather than posing it about every state.)  If one was to be objective about that question, one would have to ask if equality can be achieved in ANY state where there is a minority population which is somehow "other" than the dominant culture.
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> I wonder how she would have other countries address that issue.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.


No she isn't.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I thought it was a Jewish State.  You're right there.  At the essence.  How then can it be a Jewish State and still protect the rights of non-Jews? How can you on the one hand maintain a supremacist ideology and guarantee equality?"
> 
> She poses an excellent question.  (Unfortunately, she only poses that question about the Jewish state, rather than posing it about every state.)  If one was to be objective about that question, one would have to ask if equality can be achieved in ANY state where there is a minority population which is somehow "other" than the dominant culture.
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> I wonder how she would have other countries address that issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No she isn't.
Click to expand...


Of course she was. Do you ever watch any of the silly youtube videos you dump into these forums?


----------



## Hollie

A new day?

No. Same old pathology of the Islamic Death Cult


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arabs-Moslems have lost a vehicle to promote the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Soul's Odyssey - Performed and Composed by Dana Rizek from the album 'Letters to Palestine',


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Dajani*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud!! O Drift no Feminino na Palestina!!*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People for Palestine: Rania Elhilou*

**


----------



## Hollie

Lamis Deem. Just another Jooooooo hater.


----------



## Hollie

Hitler Youth


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place

*✪  Appeal to Emotion*
Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.

_(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
(https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
 In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".



P F Tinmore said:


> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> 
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*
> ​


*(COMMENT)*

Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.

HR Article 43:  (1907)

_The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​
UDHR Article 20:  (1948)

_1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association.
2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._​
CCPR Article 21:  (1976)

 

_The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> 
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> 
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?

You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.


----------



## Hollie

Oh, my. Arab-Moslem Death Cultists feel slighted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Defining and Defeating the Opioid Crisis | Manal Fakhoury *

**


----------



## Hollie

FORMER TOP PA SECURITY CHIEF MOHAMMED DAHLAN CRITICIZES "CORRUPT" PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: THE PA IS PUNISHING ITS OWN PEOPLE


----------



## Hollie

Al (_Dead Islamic Terrorist Walking_) Brigades


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh: Mandatory Palestine prior to 1939 Opposition to British policy and Zionist*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.

*✪  Appeal to Emotion*
Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.

_(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
(https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".



P F Tinmore said:


> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​


*(COMMENT)*

Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.

HR Article 43:  (1907)

_The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)

_1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
_2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)

_The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.



P F Tinmore said:


> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.


*(COMMENT)*

In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.





​
There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



I like this! Because “ Right of Return” will never happen. Hope they keep insisting on it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.


----------



## Hollie

More abuse of female children in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> More abuse of female children in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult



My computer isn’t cooperating so I can’t copy and paste the article title but just recently in Feb. Trump had plans for the “ Two State Solution” It called for “ Palestine” to have its Capital in E. Jerusalem but for the City to be an International City which it was initially supposed to be! Of course the Palestinians rejected it. Trump also stated they should give up “ Right of Return” which of course they rejected. Keep insisting on “ My way or the Highway”. They will get what they deserve;  NOTHING !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today,


Are you still on that phony terrorism shtick?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
Click to expand...

It is right were it has been since 1924.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
Click to expand...


The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924. 

This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?

You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I thought it was a Jewish State.  You're right there.  At the essence.  How then can it be a Jewish State and still protect the rights of non-Jews? How can you on the one hand maintain a supremacist ideology and guarantee equality?"
> 
> She poses an excellent question.  (Unfortunately, she only poses that question about the Jewish state, rather than posing it about every state.)  If one was to be objective about that question, one would have to ask if equality can be achieved in ANY state where there is a minority population which is somehow "other" than the dominant culture.
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> I wonder how she would have other countries address that issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No she isn't.
Click to expand...



Yes. She is. She said it in the video and I quoted the relevant remarks.

She said:  How can you have a (insert identity) State and still protect the rights of (non-identity)?

It's a really good question. How DOES a State built around an ethnic or cultural identity protect the rights of those who don't identify?

The problem is that she asks that question ONLY about Israel.  She doesn't bother to ask it about Arab Palestine.  Or about the Czech Republic.  Or about Catalonia.  Or about Myanmar.  Or Iran (which actually DOES have an apartheid system).

So let's address that question.  Is there a country in the world which is built around a single ethnic and cultural identity which has a significant minority culture and does a GOOD job of protecting the rights of that minority?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



Two thirds of Palestinians are "refugees".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
Click to expand...

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Media clips removed:
> *George Galloway : "Ahed Tamimi has every legal never mind just moral right to slap that soldier"*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Israel has the right to shoot her cousin in the face but she is not allowed to slap one of their goontards?
> 
> You is one fucked up dude, Rocco.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...


Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.

It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads. 

You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> More abuse of female children in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult




Wow.  Just imagine, as an example, a white supremacist American family indoctrinating their children to kill both themselves as martyrs and the enemy black people in this way.  Why does the world accept, let alone champion, such vile, toxic, disgusting abuse of children?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This entire issue of "Juvenile Delinquency" and the "Incarceration of Minors" is nothing more than the exploitation of emotion which is a means of propaganda and fallacy often used in place a subsantive fact.
> 
> *✪  Appeal to Emotion*
> Appeal to emotion that is a *logical fallacy * characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
> 
> _(Apache2 Ubuntu Default Page: It works*.fallacyfiles*.org/emotiona.html)_
> (https://*en.wikipedia.org*/wiki/*Appeal_to_emotion*)
> In addition to the spreading of "disinformation" the propagandist attempts to shift the weight of the specific topic _(the non-adult minor *Ahed Tamimi*)_  away from that which is based on the content of ideas and opinions on promoting the rule of law ⇒ towards the twin seductions of a non-exist right to use "violence" and the non-exist right to "incitement to violence.".
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Understanding that the concepts outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR → 1948) now replaced by International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR → 1976)(1967), which by the way, never made it into law, does not stipulate any "right to violence."  And the UN does not advocate anything other than the Arab Palestinians comply fully and in good faith with their obligations to live in peace.  The very idea that some pretender to leadership would suggest that Arab Palestinians, which attempted to establish a regime twenty years (1988) after Israel established "effective control" _(at a time after the Kingdom of Jordan openly abandon the territory into the hands of the Israelis)_ through the use of violence as a first option is a hint as to the mental acuity of the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> HR Article 43:  (1907)
> 
> _The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to *restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety,* while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country._​UDHR Article 20:  (1948)
> 
> _1. Everyone has the right to freedom of *peaceful assembly* and association._
> _2. No one may be compelled to belong to an association._
> ​CCPR Article 21:  (1976)
> 
> _The right of *peaceful assembly* shall be recognized. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those imposed in conformity with the law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or* public safety, public order (ordre public), the protection of public health or morals or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others*._​
> There is no legal right or moral right to the parental incitement → hostile approach → and subsequent escalation to violence.  That is simply not the intent of the Declaration of Principles or customary/traditional practice in the application of post-conflict reparation made after a war by the vanquished to the victors.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In addition to the contemprary19 Counter-Terrorism Conventions that exist today, the Customary Law, such as the *Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism*, which was adopted by 24 member states of the League of Nations on November 16, *1937*, still has meaning as a source of International Law.  It also prevents the incitement and encouragement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 184391​
> There is no law that allows that actions of either Ms Ahed Tamimi or her mother.  It does not matter what dispute there is, including occupation.  The occupation was established well before the State of Palestine was established.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
Click to expand...

OK, so you post something to prove your point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Pro Palestinians where “ Palestine” was before 1967 and there will be no response.
> 
> 
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so you post something to prove your point.
Click to expand...


Already did. Prove I didn't.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I thought it was a Jewish State.  You're right there.  At the essence.  How then can it be a Jewish State and still protect the rights of non-Jews? How can you on the one hand maintain a supremacist ideology and guarantee equality?"
> 
> She poses an excellent question.  (Unfortunately, she only poses that question about the Jewish state, rather than posing it about every state.)  If one was to be objective about that question, one would have to ask if equality can be achieved in ANY state where there is a minority population which is somehow "other" than the dominant culture.
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> I wonder how she would have other countries address that issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is essentially arguing that there can not be equality in populations which are not homogeneous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No she isn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. She is. She said it in the video and I quoted the relevant remarks.
> 
> She said:  How can you have a (insert identity) State and still protect the rights of (non-identity)?
> 
> It's a really good question. How DOES a State built around an ethnic or cultural identity protect the rights of those who don't identify?
> 
> The problem is that she asks that question ONLY about Israel.  She doesn't bother to ask it about Arab Palestine.  Or about the Czech Republic.  Or about Catalonia.  Or about Myanmar.  Or Iran (which actually DOES have an apartheid system).
> 
> So let's address that question.  Is there a country in the world which is built around a single ethnic and cultural identity which has a significant minority culture and does a GOOD job of protecting the rights of that minority?
Click to expand...


The fact that “ Palestine” has declared itself a No Israelis Allowed Country or that Jews can’t pray at the Western Wall is OK with him. That is why E. Jerusalem will Never be part of “ Palestine”
   I love when he quotes “ International Law”,yet we all know that if the Arabs had won the 67 War Israel wouldn’t exist.
     The U.N decided that Jerusalem should be an International City, something the Arabs ignored.  Just proof that “ International Law” is a farce.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is right were it has been since 1924.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so you post something to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already did. Prove I didn't.
Click to expand...

I was expecting your usual duck. You never disappoint.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The geographic area, yes. If you study some history, you will learn that a loosely defined geographic area controlled by the Ottoman Turks existed prior to 1924.
> 
> This would be the appropriate time for you, yet again, to make the pointless argument that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal’istan“. That would make it, what, the umpteenth time you made that ridiculous argument?
> 
> You still have this notion of the “country of Pal’iatan“ as some wondrous mini-caliphate. You need help addressing the fantasies that consume you.
> 
> 
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so you post something to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already did. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was expecting your usual duck. You never disappoint.
Click to expand...


I expected your usual tirade in view of your inability to refute my argument. You never fail to disappoint.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so you post something to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already did. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was expecting your usual duck. You never disappoint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I expected your usual tirade in view of your inability to refute my argument. You never fail to disappoint.
Click to expand...

I can't argue a duck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Peace is not the absence of conflict, it is the presence of justice.  MLK


צדק= justice

"Kindness and truth have met; justice and peace have kissed.  
Truth will sprout from the earth, and justice will look down from heaven." ~ King David


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes dear. You have cut and pasted that opinion many times before.
> 
> It's as pointless now as all of the other times you have used it to spam various threads.
> 
> You're not the least bit embarrassed at being a buffoon?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so you post something to prove your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Already did. Prove I didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was expecting your usual duck. You never disappoint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I expected your usual tirade in view of your inability to refute my argument. You never fail to disappoint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't argue a duck.
Click to expand...


You can’t argue anything. That’s why you're limited to cutting and pasting YouTube videos.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. That is why I post stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
Click to expand...


Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,

so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.

Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok there were a couple of points. Let me listen again find one by one.
> She sounds the most rational among the Palestinian politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
Click to expand...

Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, until 3:25 when she says :* "Is it that we don't want peace?  Is it that peace jeopardizes reality?"
> *
> As far as I understand for her peace is recognition of Palestinian suffering, their nationhood and territorial needs for further development. Right?
> I basically have no argument with that.
> 
> Also when asked about Abbas and terror she refers to the wall and suffering as reality.
> This is a correct line of thought imo, but lacking the understanding of the Israeli side, maybe even not lacking but trying to deflect and focus on the "good non violent" but not specifying exactly what, and I'm not sure she's pointing to BDS because aside from a couple of churches, on the ground Bethlehem is very involved economically with Israel.
> 
> Now back to the quote, the 1st part is correct on both sides on many layers out of distrust, while also there're people on both sides who simply want to live their lives...*"Does the peace jeopardize reality?"*
> If You put it that way Hamas and PLO are irrelevant once people on the ground have a bigger authority,
> 
> Q. Don't You think that the main issue here is the definition of peace...
> 
> 
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
Click to expand...


Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.

There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.

Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can argue on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
Click to expand...


With all that -  I think we both agree the 2nd option of investment is more viable for the average Palestinian Arab.

Do we agree on that simple notion?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> God question. Could you define what Israel would consider peace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
Click to expand...

The only path to peace is through justice.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, just from the top of it,
> establishing a reliable relationship with heads of the Arab community on both sides.
> 
> Making sure our adversaries understand we have spiritual, intellectual,  and physical  power  based on our natural right to this land,not to be played with, if You want Your people to live a good life. Once You move beyond that practical point, get this out of the way - we can have a REAL PEACEFUL meaningful conversation, and settle things out. *Step 1.
> 
> I'd sincerely like to see people like her empowered more, seems like You could get through to her.*
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
Click to expand...


Don't both sides deserve justice? 
Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell this is what the Palestinians want.
> 
> They want to live in their own homes, farm their own land, pick their own fruit, work in their own shops and factories. Also good public services like clean water and good schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
Click to expand...

Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let's go with this before we discuss more of what she said,
> 
> so all of that is achievable in their own separate state, of course unconditional opposition to the existence of Israel is an obstacle to that goal. In my view this is an irrational self-defeating vision.
> 
> Q.What is a better return politically and economically for the average Palestinian Arab - investment in hostilities or investments in factories, farms water and schools?
> 
> 
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
Click to expand...


Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
You haven't yet define "justice".


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
Click to expand...

Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it wise to invest in things that will be bombed or bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
Click to expand...

No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
Click to expand...


Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.

 I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
Click to expand...

OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, after mutual understanding, separation, the problem can be eliminated with good policing and intel. On both sides.
> 
> There won't be bulldozers. But as separate nations both will have to make sure their citizens don't spark a formal war.
> 
> Q.Are You trying to get a confrontation here or see if we can agree on something?
> Because if we can agree on the mere notion of 2 separate states with Israel being one of them then we can proceed, if not ,it's a mere declaration of war. An this is not what I've heard in her words.
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
Click to expand...


You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.

If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?
Click to expand...


It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.

Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
Click to expand...

How can you resolve a problem without defining it first?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.
> 
> Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with Jews getting their homes back in Gaza or Hebron.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you resolve a problem without defining it first?
Click to expand...

I defined the problem from the beginning - definition of "peace". I agree that's it's not defined concretely enough in our conversation.

In regards to that, I think Shusha defined the aspects of national aspirations that apply to people universally.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
Click to expand...

No I don't. What is your perspective?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> 
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.
> 
> Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no problem with Jews getting their homes back in Gaza or Hebron.
Click to expand...


This is a good notion, for that to happen an atmosphere has to be created in Gaza more than in Hebron.
It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return, many even prefer Israel to PLO or Hamas.

The key again in my opinion is to try to seek for a combination of people who in their nature are capable of having a rational conversation. That's why I wanted to discuss what Vera Baboun said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like living in their own homes or farming their own land, for starters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.
> 
> Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no problem with Jews getting their homes back in Gaza or Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is a good notion, for that to happen an atmosphere has to be created in Gaza more than in Hebron.
> It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return, many even prefer Israel to PLO or Hamas.
> 
> The key again in my opinion is to try to seek for a combination of people who in their nature are capable of having a rational conversation. That's why I wanted to discuss what Vera Baboun said.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return,


Of course I don't mean any Jews from anyplace, but those who specifically lost their homes.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't both sides deserve justice?
> Doesn't it have to be weighed between both sides?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. What is your perspective?
Click to expand...


The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria.  This connection was established on a non governmental level.


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> The fact that “ Palestine” has declared itself a No Israelis Allowed Country or that Jews can’t pray at the Western Wall is OK with him. ...



Yes.  And this is why it is so hypocritical for Arab Palestinians to complain about their "mistreatment" at the hands of Israel.  They hold two different sets of standards -- one for Jews and one for everyone else.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, if the priority is not to delete Israel but to live beside it, independently, all that is possible in their own separate state.
> 
> I think it might happen once the average people on the ground get more sovereignty, money and power from their system.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so if someone owned an orange grove in Jaffa and is now a refugee in Gaza, what justice could Israel offer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has to be weighed against the property lost by Jews in Gaza as well as Jaffa.
> 
> Can't slice that thin enough, always to sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no problem with Jews getting their homes back in Gaza or Hebron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is a good notion, for that to happen an atmosphere has to be created in Gaza more than in Hebron.
> It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return, many even prefer Israel to PLO or Hamas.
> 
> The key again in my opinion is to try to seek for a combination of people who in their nature are capable of having a rational conversation. That's why I wanted to discuss what Vera Baboun said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It won't be an exaggeration to say that many Palestinian Arab in Hebron sicerely want Jews to return,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I don't mean any Jews from anyplace, but those who specifically lost their homes.
Click to expand...


And I guess You'd  go with their descendants too?
I told You already once, You won't find any nation that bought the land more times than Jews. We CAN establish a long line. Don't think  differently, only open that gate and Your side will beg for a reparations settlement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the one with the power to deny justice. And they do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. What is your perspective?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria.  This connection was established on a non governmental level.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the question.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. What is your perspective?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria.  This connection was established on a non governmental level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
Click to expand...


That was my answer, think was relevant to Your question and beyond.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The only path to peace is through justice.



Yes, but what does justice look like?  Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time?  Is this the only way to "restore" them?  As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".  

Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course I don't mean any Jews from anyplace, but those who specifically lost their homes.



And all their descendants, yes?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Power also gives Israel a chance to be just towards those who deserve it.
> You haven't yet define "justice".
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt you have heard about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. What is the problem there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're deflecting. You know everything my side has to say about the issue. I'm trying to talking about it from a wider perspective.
> 
> If You prefer to attack rather than discuss option to agree on something - I have enough on that.
> I prefer the crazy notion that we can agree, let's try. Invest in what is more viable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. What is your perspective?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Tamimi's are basically a Hebronite Arab Muslim clan. Those who live outside are involved with both Hamas and Fatah and participate in attacks. Those who live in Hebron, as far as I know try as much as possible to distance themselves from politics, and express a closer attitude to our orthodox view in many ways, respectable people in many cases. They take part in special meetings between the sheikhs and local representatives of the Jews in Judea Samaria.  This connection was established on a non governmental level.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That wasn't the question.
Click to expand...


I can add that Vera Baboun said something like (paraphrazing) - "Too many women speak the language of men". I see this in Ahed Tamimi.

Tamimis in Hebron? Different attitude to even their Sharia judge in the PA.
Tamimis in Qatar? Slowly coming to rational sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but what does justice look like?  Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time?  Is this the only way to "restore" them?  As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".
> 
> Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?
Click to expand...

I don't see any options on the table.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> [
> I can add that Vera Baboun said something like (paraphrazing) - "Too many women speak the language of men". I see this in Ahed Tamimi.



Yes.  This.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore  so we go with giving specific people who were moved due to the conflict or their descendants as well?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore  so we go with giving specific people who were moved due to the conflict or their descendants as well?


Inheritance counts.


----------



## rylah

Let me find a Shaaltiel...


----------



## rylah

Just warming up...

2 Millennia Of Jewish History Emanate From A Single Family


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see any options on the table.



Well, here's the biggest problem with that small-view of justice:  Putting everything, and all the people, back the way it was in 1922, or 1948 or 1967, or 586 BCE doesn't actually solve the problem.  It doesn't address the essential conflict.  And therefore, does not actually provide justice for anyone. 

True justice would be a way for BOTH peoples to move forward without conflict.  It would acknowledge that neither the 3rd generation descendants of a former Iraqi Jew living in peace and comfort in Israel nor the 3rd generation of descendants of an Arab Palestinian living in peace and comfort in America require restoration and that neither is especially likely to want to be "put back".  

True justice would concentrate on two things -- a good life for the ACTUAL refugees who have not been resettled and providing a collective justice for the two peoples.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see any options on the table.



And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh.  What do you suppose that look like?

Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910?  Is that what would bring justice to these people?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any options on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh.  What do you suppose that look like?
> 
> Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910?  Is that what would bring justice to these people?
Click to expand...

Probably, plus any general problems with the occupation.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any options on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And let's talk about justice for Nabi Saleh.  What do you suppose that look like?
> 
> Is it enough for Nabi Saleh to have sole access to the one spring in the area and to be able to farm all the land that was registered to them in, oh, say, 1910?  Is that what would bring justice to these people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Probably, plus any general problems with the occupation.
Click to expand...



What would those be?


----------



## rylah

She's sensible P F Tinmore, pay attention she never talks or accuses only one side.
Criticizes both and opens a door for conversation.


----------



## rylah

Wonder if Golda Meir could find commonality with her...


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> She's sensible P F Tinmore, pay attention she never talks or accuses only one side.
> Criticizes both and opens a door for conversation.


Indeed, interesting woman.

*Vera George Ghattas Baboun* (Arabic: فيرا جورج غطاس بابون‎, born October 6, 1964) is a Palestinian politician and the first female mayor of Bethlehem.[1][2] Baboun has a master's degree in African-American literature.[3] Prior to her election, she became the principle of the Roman Catholic High School in Beit Sahour[3] (2010-2012) and was an English literature lecturer at Bethlehem University,[4][5] (1990-2010) where she was also the Assistant Dean of Students (2000-2006).[5] Additionally, she is the chairperson of the Board of Directors for Guidance and Training Centre for Family and Children[3][5] as well as a gender studies researcher in GRACE (Gender Research in Africa and the Middle East into ICTs for Empowerment) network looking at the role of information technology in empowering women in the Arab world.[3][4][5] Baboun is the mother of five children.[2] She is a Palestinian Christian.[1][6]

Vera Baboun - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

Sounds to me like she's talking about more sovereignty and resource to the people on the ground, 
rather than to PLO or Hamas. 

Wonder if there're more voices like that. Very smart position


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People and Politics | A Woman in the Palestinian Cabinet*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *People and Politics | A Woman in the Palestinian Cabinet*
> 
> **


 
I know why her father insisted on Deutsch education, You won;t like to discuss that.
*Next.*

What do You think about Vera Baboun's urban development vision?


----------



## rylah

Or find someone who's not a daughter of a SS soldier...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Recipe for Life: Laila El-Haddad*

Educated at both Harvard and Duke Universities, Palestinian-American Laila El-Haddad is a journalist, blogger, author, Muslim activist and mother. She co- authored "The Gaza Kitchen", a cookbook with recipes and stories from across the Gaza Strip.

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but what does justice look like?  Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time?  Is this the only way to "restore" them?  As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".
> 
> Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see any options on the table.
Click to expand...


Everyone who lives in the real world knows that will never happen. The Israelis will never consent to being a minority in their own Country. Keep dreaming.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but what does justice look like?  Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time?  Is this the only way to "restore" them?  As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".
> 
> Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see any options on the table.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone who lives in the real world knows that will never happen. The Israelis will never consent to being a minority in their own Country. Keep dreaming.
Click to expand...

Real Jews Already ARE..........keep banging you head


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> 
> **


Ta...Tinnie,steve


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:

•  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.

•  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:

■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​


P F Tinmore said:


> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)


*(COMMENT)*

While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.

•  11/10/1975 
	

 A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution

•  12/16/1991 
	

 A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:

■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.

No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors

No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians

Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes; 

Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own; 

Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.; 

Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes; 

Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.

The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
> This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:
> 
> •  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.
> 
> •  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:
> 
> ■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
> ■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
> ■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
> ■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
> ■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.
> 
> •  11/10/1975
> 
> 
> A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution
> 
> •  12/16/1991
> 
> 
> A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
> People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:
> 
> ■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.
> 
> No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors
> 
> No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
> No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
> No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians
> 
> Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
> There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.
> 
> The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

O Come off it Rocco,let us not play games here....The Systematic,and continued Land Grab and Slaughtering of the Palestinains since 1948 has been the Concerted Desire of the Zionist Animals....so stop fcuking around with your Bullshit....The Final Chapter before a Peace Settlement will be the Zionists wish to Defeat the Palestinians in a WAR(You have never seriously wanted a 2 State Solution or a Palestine EVER)....I am always right,you my friend Speak With Fork Tongue...steve What I detest so much is that You Zionist Gypo's are not Jewish BUT you are a pack of Compulsive Liars,why don't you stop pretending that you are the victims,when you are Wolves in Sheeps Clothing and a Disgrace to Humanity

You talk of Credibitiy,You lot have None......therefore you are Ghastly Hypocrites,you also Murder Real Jews...That is the Material Fact of the Matter...FULL STOP.


----------



## Hollie

Palestinian Authority And Fatah Glorify Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi And The Contribution Of Other Female Martyrs And Prisoners To The Palestinian Cause

Palestinian Authority And Fatah Glorify Terrorist Dalal Al-Mughrabi And The Contribution Of Other Female Martyrs And Prisoners To The Palestinian Cause 

_March 11, 2018 was the 40th anniversary of the 1978 Coastal Road bus hijacking, in which 35 Israelis were killed, including 13 children. Like every year, the Palestinian Authority (PA) held an event in honor of Dalal Al-Mughrabi, the deputy-commander of the unit that perpetrated the hijacking, at which PA and Fatah officials praised her courage and presented her as a paragon of Palestinian sacrifice.[1] Several days earlier, on the occasion of International Women's Day, PA and Fatah officials praised the contribution of Palestinian women in general to the struggle against Israel and saluted Palestinian female martyrs and prisoners._

Fatah's official website and Facebook page also commemorated Al-Mughrabi. An article on the website featured a biography of her, with the following photo, captioned "Dalal Al-Mughrabi, the Legend that Will Never Die."[5]









I couldn’t help but notice the heavily photoshopped image: hair, makeup, rosy-red cheeks, lip gloss and a rather light-skinned appearance. 

Such accoutrements are not exactly an islamically correct depiction of women in Islamic nations. 

Was there a fatwa written to allow this?


----------



## Hollie

WATCH: Palestinian terrorists plant explosives at a security fence near Jerusalem and get handled by Israeli security forces.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
> This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:
> 
> •  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.
> 
> •  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:
> 
> ■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
> ■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
> ■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
> ■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
> ■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.
> 
> •  11/10/1975
> 
> 
> A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution
> 
> •  12/16/1991
> 
> 
> A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
> People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:
> 
> ■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.
> 
> No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors
> 
> No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
> No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
> No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians
> 
> Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
> There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.
> 
> The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.

BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

theliq said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only path to peace is through justice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but what does justice look like?  Is the only definition of "justice" to put people and their descendants back where they were at a specific point in time?  Is this the only way to "restore" them?  As I see it, there are all sorts of problems with this sort of small-view "justice".
> 
> Can there be other ideas of what justice looks like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see any options on the table.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Everyone who lives in the real world knows that will never happen. The Israelis will never consent to being a minority in their own Country. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Real Jews Already ARE..........keep banging you head
Click to expand...



Real Jews are already a minority in the “ 67 Borders” we hear so much about? You wish. Just gave the perfect reason for NO “ Right of Return”. Keep posting!!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
> This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:
> 
> •  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.
> 
> •  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:
> 
> ■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
> ■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
> ■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
> ■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
> ■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.
> 
> •  11/10/1975
> 
> 
> A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution
> 
> •  12/16/1991
> 
> 
> A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
> People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:
> 
> ■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.
> 
> No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors
> 
> No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
> No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
> No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians
> 
> Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
> There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.
> 
> The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
Click to expand...


You seem a bit fuzzy on the details. 

It’s a shame that you’re reduced to parroting silly slogans when you don’t understand terms and definitions.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

theliq said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
> This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:
> 
> •  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.
> 
> •  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:
> 
> ■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
> ■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
> ■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
> ■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
> ■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.
> 
> •  11/10/1975
> 
> 
> A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution
> 
> •  12/16/1991
> 
> 
> A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
> People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:
> 
> ■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.
> 
> No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors
> 
> No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
> No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
> No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians
> 
> Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
> There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.
> 
> The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> O Come off it Rocco,let us not play games here....The Systematic,and continued Land Grab and Slaughtering of the Palestinains since 1948 has been the Concerted Desire of the Zionist Animals....so stop fcuking around with your Bullshit....The Final Chapter before a Peace Settlement will be the Zionists wish to Defeat the Palestinians in a WAR(You have never seriously wanted a 2 State Solution or a Palestine EVER)....I am always right,you my friend Speak With Fork Tongue...steve What I detest so much is that You Zionist Gypo's are not Jewish BUT you are a pack of Compulsive Liars,why don't you stop pretending that you are the victims,when you are Wolves in Sheeps Clothing and a Disgrace to Humanity
> 
> You talk of Credibitiy,You lot have None......therefore you are Ghastly Hypocrites,you also Murder Real Jews...That is the Material Fact of the Matter...FULL STOP.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,​
> This gentleman has absolutely no credibility with me.  He is trying to convince people that:
> 
> •  Israel is targeting Arab Palestinians because the Arab Palestinians represent the other culture in that region and territory.
> 
> •  He is among the many that are trying to convince people that:
> 
> ■   Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.
> ■  That the Security Barrier is to separate Arab Palestinians from Arab Palestinians.
> ■  That the Arab Palestinians are the victims in the struggle → and that it is gracious of the Arab Palestinians to offer the Israelis a place in the One-State Solution.
> ■  That the turning point will be when the Israelis realize that it will be impossible to continue killing Palestinian Children.  And that over 90% of the Jews support the continued massacring of Palestinians in Gaza.
> ■   That the Jews are going through the "nazification of their society.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Haidar Eid on the one / two states solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Colonial conflict*
> Media Removed  (See *Post: 2250*)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While it is true that in 1991 (≈ a quarter century ago) the propagandists were able to pass a non-binding resolution that declared Zionism to Apartheid, it was revoked when the International Criminal Court defined what Apartheid means.
> 
> •  11/10/1975
> 
> 
> A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of all forms of racial discrimination: Zionism as racism - GA resolution
> 
> •  12/16/1991
> 
> 
> A/RES/46/86 Racism and racial discrimination/Revocation of resolution 3379 ("Zionism as racism") - GA resolution​
> People like Professor Eid Haidar want to re-examine and redefine the nature of Apartheid so as to make it fit in the realities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem.  Like so many others, he wants to re-define and expanded the meaning (See:  _Rethinking Our Definition of Apartheid: Not Just a Political Regime_, by Haidar Eid, Andy Clarno on August 27, 2017) because he knows full well that the Rule of Law, in this case, says that:
> 
> ■  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> The accusation of "Nazification" comes _(mostly but not always)_ from two frameworks regionally:  The segment of the those identified as "self-hating" and those external Palestinians that cannot distinguish between the Nazification of Europe (≈ 1933 → 1939) and the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Jerusalem of today.
> 
> No Burning of the Muslim Books of those by Arab Palestinians authors
> 
> No Antiislamic legislation and propaganda against "Non-Jews"
> No Looting and Destruction of Arab Palestinian owned business
> No ownership ban on businesses by Arab Palestinians
> 
> Arab Palestinians  are not required to wear an Arab Palestinians emblem on their closes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to turn in their bicycles;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use public transportation;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to ride in cars, even their own;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to do their shopping between 3:00 and 5:00 P.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not required to use Arab-owned barbershops and beauty parlors;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to be out on the streets between 8:00 P.M. and 6:00 A.M.;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend theaters, movies or any other forms of entertainment;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to use swimming pools, tennis courts or any other athletic fields;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to visit non-Arabs in their homes;
> 
> Arab Palestinians are not forbidden to attend schools”
> There are so many dissimilarities, one hardly knows where to begin.  Certainly, Professor Haidar has a couple valid complaints to be made and discussed.  But like so many anti-Semitic complaints, they are reduced in worth as something requiring a second look because of the disinformation that surrounds them.
> 
> The accusation of "nazificationis" is very much like the accusation of "apartheid."  They invoke emotions and if not truly examined, they may tarnish the truth.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You seem a bit fuzzy on the details.
> 
> It’s a shame that you’re reduced to parroting silly slogans when you don’t understand terms and definitions.
Click to expand...


When I was listening to the clip I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. The “ International Community” stepped in to stop the oppression of Jews? When did that happen?
      If it were not for Pearl Harbor and the U.S. didn’t step in every Jewish individual in Europe would have been killed! Please, don’t let us forget the Pogroms in Russia!
       What I couldn’t figure out is; Is he advocating a “ One State Solution?”
If Zionism is. “ racist” then by definition a Palestinian State is also Racist which means the Israelis have no reason to leave E. Jerusalem and the W. Bank .


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nada Elia, Ph.D., Core Faculty, B. A. in Liberal Studies*

**


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. It seems these dregs are really angry about something.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/islamic-state-in-sinai-declares-war-on-hamas-in-gruesome-execution-video/

*Islamic State in Sinai declares war on Hamas in gruesome execution video*
*IS member accused of smuggling weapons to Gaza rulers is shot in back of head as tensions between rival terror groups erupt; Hamas dismisses clip as 'Zionist production'*
By DOV LIEBER 4 January 2018, 6:17 pm  34




Screenshot from a video produced by the Islamic State's Sinai Peninsula branch in which the terror group declares war on Hamas and executes one of its own members for smuggling weapons to the Palestinian group. The video was released January 3, 2017. (Screenshot) 
The Islamic State branch in the Sinai Peninsula on Wednesday called on its supporters to attack Hamas in a gruesome execution video as long-simmering tensions between the rival Islamic terror groups erupted into the open.

The 22-minute long video culminated with the execution of one of its members, shot in the back of the head for allegedly smuggling weapons to Hamas.


“[Hamas] uses its smuggled weapons to empower that which was not revealed by God. It also fights supporters of the Islamic State in Gaza and the Sinai and prevents the migration of these supporters from Gaza to the Sinai,” said a speaker in the video, who is referred to as Abu Kazem al-Maqdisi, an Islamic State preacher in the Sinai, originally from Gaza.

Maqdisi calls on viewers to attack the security headquarters and courthouses of Hamas in Gaza, as these are “the pillars of tyranny.”

At the end of the video, the narrator declares that a man, named as Musa Abu Zamat, who was once among the ranks of Islamic State, was sentenced to death for “smuggling weapons to the apostates of the Izz a-Din al-Qassam Brigades,” referring to Hamas’s military wing.






Screenshot from a video produced by the Islamic State’s Sinai Peninsula branch in which the terror group declares war on Hamas and executes one of its own members for smuggling weapons to the Palestinian group. The video was released January 3, 2017. (Screenshot)
The accused is then shot in the back of the head.

The shooter was identified in news reports as Muhammad al-Dajani, a former member of Hamas’s military branch in Gaza.

Dajani’s family released a statement to the press decrying his actions in the video.

Hamas, a terror group sworn to Israel’s destruction, has run Gaza for a decade but have been regularly criticized by more radical jihadist groups in the Strip.

Hamas has arrested dozens of Salafi militants, which continues to a be a source of tension between the two sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Plea Agreement Reached Between Ahed Tamimi And Israeli Military Prosecution– IMEMC News | by Military Times


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Plea Agreement Reached Between Ahed Tamimi And Israeli Military Prosecution– IMEMC News | by Military Times



Only eight months in jail. 

You must be devastated. You have only a limited amount of time to exploit her in furtherance of your rabid Joooooo hatreds.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

There is the concept of permanent truth, and there is the concept of short-term, prolonged and temporary truths.

•  I am, is not a permanent truth.  
→  It is conditional on within the duration of life.  This is a short-term truth.​
•  The Sun is the ≈ center of the Solar System. 
→  When Galileo published his Copernican, this came in conflicts with truths established by the church.  The condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic prolonged the truths compatablewith religious teachings.​
•  That which is true or in accordance with facts of reality are temporary.  The fact the world was flat was true once, for different durations by different cultures.
→   As new knowledge becomes available, the observation of reality changed.​


P F Tinmore said:


> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.


*(COMMENT)*

Arab Palestinians are very adept at using shields.  Professor Haidar did not have to use the source he did (a specific journalist) to promote his views of nazification and its application on the political-military situation.

Ms Fedwa Wazwaz, _Engage Minnesota_, once wrote that "Prejudice Always Obscures the Truth."   Nowhere is the craftily applied prejudice more obvious than in Professor Haidar's forceful and bitter video clip attack against the establishment of the Jewish State and the continued protection of that effort of self-determination.
*
("get off that Israeli propaganda crap")*

You know, I am always a bit afraid that I am brought to task by an Israeli Citizen for taking the position that I have.  As long as I an taking flak from you, I'm OK with that.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Plea Agreement Reached Between Ahed Tamimi And Israeli Military Prosecution– IMEMC News | by Military Times



Hamas in a missile test

During Hamas exercises in Gaza today, rockets were fired at the sea, watch:
חמאס בניסוי טילים • צפו - רדיו קול חי






*Alarm (25/03/2018 22: 52):*
25/03/2018 22:52:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya

25/03/2018 22:29
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara
• Lachish 247 - Industrial Zone Ashkelon

25/03/2018 22:29:34:
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara
• The Gaza Envelope 219 - Or Haner, Erez

25/03/2018 22:29:38:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya

25/03/2018 22:30:43:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara
• Lachish 247 - Industrial Zone Ashkelon

25/03/2018 22:31:05:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara

25/03/2018 22:31:16:
• Gaza Envelope 220 - Ibim, Gevim, Sapir College, Nir Am, Sapir Industrial Park, Sderot, Shaar Hanegev Industries
• The Gaza Envelope 219 - Or Haner, Erez
• The Gaza envelope is 221-level

25/03/2018 22:31:28:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara

25/03/2018 22:32
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara
• Lachish 247 - Industrial Zone Ashkelon

25/03/2018 22:32:44:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara

25/03/2018 22:33:28:
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara
• Lachish 247 - Industrial Zone Ashkelon

25/03/2018 22:33
• The Gaza envelope - 217 Zikim, Karmiya
• The Gaza envelope - 218 Yad Mordechai, Nativ Ha'asara






IDF strikes in Gaza after rockets intercepted,
Hamas denies it fired the rockets...watch:

ZioNLight on Twitter
חדשות עשר on Twitter
ZioNLight on Twitter
ZioNLight on Twitter
החדשות on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is the concept of permanent truth, and there is the concept of short-term, prolonged and temporary truths.
> 
> •  I am, is not a permanent truth.
> →  It is conditional on within the duration of life.  This is a short-term truth.​•  The Sun is the ≈ center of the Solar System.
> →  When Galileo published his Copernican, this came in conflicts with truths established by the church.  The condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic prolonged the truths compatablewith religious teachings.​•  That which is true or in accordance with facts of reality are temporary.  The fact the world was flat was true once, for different durations by different cultures.
> →   As new knowledge becomes available, the observation of reality changed.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Arab Palestinians are very adept at using shields.  Professor Haidar did not have to use the source he did (a specific journalist) to promote his views of nazification and its application on the political-military situation.
> 
> Ms Fedwa Wazwaz, _Engage Minnesota_, once wrote that "Prejudice Always Obscures the Truth."   Nowhere is the craftily applied prejudice more obvious than in Professor Haidar's forceful and bitter video clip attack against the establishment of the Jewish State and the continued protection of that effort of self-determination.
> *
> ("get off that Israeli propaganda crap")*
> 
> You know, I am always a bit afraid that I am brought to task by an Israeli Citizen for taking the position that I have.  As long as I an taking flak from you, I'm OK with that.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Come on, Rocco. You always slime the Palestinians and your posts are sprinkled with BS Israeli talking points.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is the concept of permanent truth, and there is the concept of short-term, prolonged and temporary truths.
> 
> •  I am, is not a permanent truth.
> →  It is conditional on within the duration of life.  This is a short-term truth.​•  The Sun is the ≈ center of the Solar System.
> →  When Galileo published his Copernican, this came in conflicts with truths established by the church.  The condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic prolonged the truths compatablewith religious teachings.​•  That which is true or in accordance with facts of reality are temporary.  The fact the world was flat was true once, for different durations by different cultures.
> →   As new knowledge becomes available, the observation of reality changed.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Arab Palestinians are very adept at using shields.  Professor Haidar did not have to use the source he did (a specific journalist) to promote his views of nazification and its application on the political-military situation.
> 
> Ms Fedwa Wazwaz, _Engage Minnesota_, once wrote that "Prejudice Always Obscures the Truth."   Nowhere is the craftily applied prejudice more obvious than in Professor Haidar's forceful and bitter video clip attack against the establishment of the Jewish State and the continued protection of that effort of self-determination.
> *
> ("get off that Israeli propaganda crap")*
> 
> You know, I am always a bit afraid that I am brought to task by an Israeli Citizen for taking the position that I have.  As long as I an taking flak from you, I'm OK with that.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on, Rocco. You always slime the Palestinians and your posts are sprinkled with BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Such juvenile banter. Should you limit your participation to cutting and pasting YouTube videos?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is the concept of permanent truth, and there is the concept of short-term, prolonged and temporary truths.
> 
> •  I am, is not a permanent truth.
> →  It is conditional on within the duration of life.  This is a short-term truth.​•  The Sun is the ≈ center of the Solar System.
> →  When Galileo published his Copernican, this came in conflicts with truths established by the church.  The condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic prolonged the truths compatablewith religious teachings.​•  That which is true or in accordance with facts of reality are temporary.  The fact the world was flat was true once, for different durations by different cultures.
> →   As new knowledge becomes available, the observation of reality changed.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Arab Palestinians are very adept at using shields.  Professor Haidar did not have to use the source he did (a specific journalist) to promote his views of nazification and its application on the political-military situation.
> 
> Ms Fedwa Wazwaz, _Engage Minnesota_, once wrote that "Prejudice Always Obscures the Truth."   Nowhere is the craftily applied prejudice more obvious than in Professor Haidar's forceful and bitter video clip attack against the establishment of the Jewish State and the continued protection of that effort of self-determination.
> *
> ("get off that Israeli propaganda crap")*
> 
> You know, I am always a bit afraid that I am brought to task by an Israeli Citizen for taking the position that I have.  As long as I an taking flak from you, I'm OK with that.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Come on, Rocco. You always slime the Palestinians and your posts are sprinkled with BS Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


But it’s OK to slime the Israelis with your Pro Palestinian , and Anti Israel talking points More Pro Palestinian Mentality.


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is the concept of permanent truth, and there is the concept of short-term, prolonged and temporary truths.
> 
> •  I am, is not a permanent truth.
> →  It is conditional on within the duration of life.  This is a short-term truth.​•  The Sun is the ≈ center of the Solar System.
> →  When Galileo published his Copernican, this came in conflicts with truths established by the church.  The condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic prolonged the truths compatablewith religious teachings.​•  That which is true or in accordance with facts of reality are temporary.  The fact the world was flat was true once, for different durations by different cultures.
> →   As new knowledge becomes available, the observation of reality changed.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has a better handle on the situation than you do. You need to read up. And get off that Israeli propaganda crap.
> 
> BTW, he did not bring up the Nazis. That was an Israeli journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Arab Palestinians are very adept at using shields.  Professor Haidar did not have to use the source he did (a specific journalist) to promote his views of nazification and its application on the political-military situation.
> 
> Ms Fedwa Wazwaz, _Engage Minnesota_, once wrote that "Prejudice Always Obscures the Truth."   Nowhere is the craftily applied prejudice more obvious than in Professor Haidar's forceful and bitter video clip attack against the establishment of the Jewish State and the continued protection of that effort of self-determination.
> *
> ("get off that Israeli propaganda crap")*
> 
> You know, I am always a bit afraid that I am brought to task by an Israeli Citizen for taking the position that I have.  As long as I an taking flak from you, I'm OK with that.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Really Roco,are you being serious here OR have those pesky Zionist Pretenders ..... have their Hand Up Your Back,Using you like a Glove Puppet

Your prose is NOT OK,even with a Zionist Israeli Citizen goading you on...steve


----------



## rylah

1st time I hear about this project, 
could this be a peek into the new regional deal being talked about?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.

What would be different from now?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh at Stop the War Machine Conference*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mnar Muhawesh at Stop the War Machine Conference*
> 
> **



Well staged act and smart choice of words.

Children throw rocks at soldiers because they don't let them pass to school during intifada?

Wonder how the average US kid responds to blocking a street by police or a swat team...also what do they teach them in schools that the students are so upset about a day off? 
Such thirst for knowledge - they should export that educational system to the west...

Palestinians realized that the image of the kid suicide bomber hurts them. Now the tactic is to associate young people who have been living their whole life in the West, as  the voice of Palestinians in WB and Gaza.

Smart move, but they were not brought up in Hamas military camps.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
Click to expand...


As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.

Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas. 

Speculating.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.
> 
> Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
> A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas.
> 
> Speculating.
Click to expand...

Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.
> 
> Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
> A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas.
> 
> Speculating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community.
Click to expand...


Gee wiz. I can’t imagine why the international community hasn’t jumped at a chance to enter into a business deal with Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.
> 
> Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
> A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas.
> 
> Speculating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee wiz. I can’t imagine why the international community hasn’t jumped at a chance to enter into a business deal with Islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

It would be for travel, trade, and tourism. Hamas would not have to be involved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.
> 
> Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
> A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas.
> 
> Speculating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gee wiz. I can’t imagine why the international community hasn’t jumped at a chance to enter into a business deal with Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be for travel, trade, and tourism. Hamas would not have to be involved.
Click to expand...


I feel better knowing you’re watching out for their interests.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid idea. A transportation hub for Gaza that is 100% controlled by Israel.
> 
> What would be different from now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a single move, I agree it's meaningless. That's why I asked whether this could be just one of the many new directions being discussed now, between the US, Israel, Egypt, Qatar and members of UAE.
> 
> Maybe the difference will be the choice between Hamas with their tunnels and Iran, versus some kind of more sensible sovereignty for the people on the ground, with gas and an airport etc., under patrontage of key Arab representatives.
> A wealthy Gaza Emirate with indirect, leveraged agreement with Israel through a 3rd party that the people on the ground can recognize as their patrons instead of Hamas.
> 
> Speculating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community.
Click to expand...


Too far away, all they want is a base near or in Turkey.
Erdogan is already training their police and army.

Gaza is now up for sale - Iran or Ankara. Hamas tries to merry the bride twice.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

The data of latest Palestinian Demographics:






Twitter

Apparently many Palestinians are 141 years old...?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.


Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.

You need to keep up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
Click to expand...

good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
Click to expand...

Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
Click to expand...


You wrote:
_"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_

I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
Or did You just invent that on the go?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
Click to expand...

It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore show me what Hamas proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
Click to expand...


In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons. 
International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every time I post something you don't know anything about it.
> 
> You need to keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
Click to expand...

It is Israel that will not allow civil development.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> good one Tinnie, now can You actually elaborate?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
Click to expand...


You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, it was one of the proposals by Hamas to have shipments monitored by international observers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
Click to expand...

Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?

Why propose something that changes nothing?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> _"Hamas has already proposed a similar hub in Greece or Cyprus to be monitored by the international community."_
> 
> I want to see the plan for that hub that includes an airport, gas deal, and direct connection to Gaza itself.
> Or did You just invent that on the go?
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?
> 
> Why propose something that changes nothing?
Click to expand...


You're running in circles, I already told You - only as a part of a bigger regional arrangement.
I'm actually in favor of distancing Israel from Gazans in any further agreements by indirect deals.
Israel and Egypt will be neighbor observers, with others from the Arab world. It aligns with Your suggestion for international monitoring.

Are You now trying to negotiate LESS for Gazans? Funny how positions flip-flop


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't a big infrastructure deal. It was for off site monitoring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?
> 
> Why propose something that changes nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're running in circles, I already told You - only as a part of a bigger regional arrangement.
> I'm actually in favor of distancing Israel from Gazans in any further agreements by indirect deals.
> Israel and Egypt will be neighbor observers, with others from the Arab world. It aligns with Your suggestion for international monitoring.
> 
> Are You now trying to negotiate LESS for Gazans? Funny how positions flip-flop
Click to expand...

Israel will still control everything. Everyone else will just be fluff.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my view, Gaza is better as a wealthy modern emirate, and their own international infrastructure monitored in coordination with Egypt, Israel and Arab patrons.
> International community will have full access once Gaza becomes more and more open to the world economically and technologically. Hamas will have to change strategy and focus on civil development if it wants to survive.
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?
> 
> Why propose something that changes nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're running in circles, I already told You - only as a part of a bigger regional arrangement.
> I'm actually in favor of distancing Israel from Gazans in any further agreements by indirect deals.
> Israel and Egypt will be neighbor observers, with others from the Arab world. It aligns with Your suggestion for international monitoring.
> 
> Are You now trying to negotiate LESS for Gazans? Funny how positions flip-flop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will still control everything. Everyone else will just be fluff.
Click to expand...


I disagree, Israel has no interests but to distance itself from Gaza and secure its' borders.
But even so, still not a reason NOT to give Gazans a better economy, don't You think?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel that will not allow civil development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?
> 
> Why propose something that changes nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're running in circles, I already told You - only as a part of a bigger regional arrangement.
> I'm actually in favor of distancing Israel from Gazans in any further agreements by indirect deals.
> Israel and Egypt will be neighbor observers, with others from the Arab world. It aligns with Your suggestion for international monitoring.
> 
> Are You now trying to negotiate LESS for Gazans? Funny how positions flip-flop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will still control everything. Everyone else will just be fluff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree, Israel has no interests but to distance itself from Gaza and secure its' borders.
> But even so, still not a reason NOT to give Gazans a better economy, don't You think?
Click to expand...

I don't see how anything would be better. I heard that the Island would actually be in Israeli international waters so Israel would maintain 100% control. Permanent suck.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do remember that we're still discussing a project coming from an Israeli minister?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the one where Israel controls everything like it has been doing since 2006?
> 
> Why propose something that changes nothing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're running in circles, I already told You - only as a part of a bigger regional arrangement.
> I'm actually in favor of distancing Israel from Gazans in any further agreements by indirect deals.
> Israel and Egypt will be neighbor observers, with others from the Arab world. It aligns with Your suggestion for international monitoring.
> 
> Are You now trying to negotiate LESS for Gazans? Funny how positions flip-flop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will still control everything. Everyone else will just be fluff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree, Israel has no interests but to distance itself from Gaza and secure its' borders.
> But even so, still not a reason NOT to give Gazans a better economy, don't You think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see how anything would be better. I heard that the Island would actually be in Israeli international waters so Israel would maintain 100% control. Permanent suck.
Click to expand...


Israel, Egypt, Jordan and other Arab states including the international community.
I don't understand how something proposed by Hamas X times 10 more advanced- is worse??

You do realize that what Hamas proposed would still have to be coordinated with Gaza's neighbors, namely Israel and Egypt?


----------



## rylah

*Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*


----------



## rylah

*Pressure on Abbas to accept the "deal of the century"*

The frustration of the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah increases as time passes and the date of the transfer of the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is due to begin on May 14, one day before Palestinian Nakba Day, marking the 70th anniversary of the national catastrophe. 
Of course there is no soul-searching on the Palestinian side how they came to this situation and it is easier for them to blame the Arab states for their situation.

On March 9, Wafa quoted the official Palestinian news agency Wafa as saying: "The failure of the Arab states to implement their decisions encouraged the US to act as it is now and to declare On its recognition of Jerusalem, it also encouraged small states like Guatemala to decide to transfer their embassy to Jerusalem. "

The PA chairman, was left alone, with no practical Arab backing. The backing is purely declarative, paying by "lip service" in statements about Jerusalem. The threats made by the Arab states three months ago to the Trump administration also disappeared. Several Arab countries, such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia, have begun to accept the fact that the American president can not be changed, and therefore must be pragmatic and try to work with him on his new plan, called the "Deal of the century."


----------



## rylah

Watch :Islamic Jihad march in Gaza now.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*


These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.

The author of this article is particularly clueless.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
Click to expand...


 An international hub with a gas pipe, an airport and connection to the world is worse than digging tunnels?

If You only knew how desperately ridiculous You sound.
The notion of prosperous Gaza is counterintuitive for Palestinian mentality, to the point of fighting for the "right" to suffer further. Irrational.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
Click to expand...


Explain.  

How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
Click to expand...

You didn't understand my post.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
Click to expand...



Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
Click to expand...

The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
Click to expand...


Islam means _submission_.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Palestinian Ports Be Developed in Gaza to Relieve the Humanitarian Crisis?*
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
Click to expand...


Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors. 

Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> These peckers are pecking around the edges of the problem. It has been a long term concerted effort to destroy Gaza. A few things here and there are not going to solve any problems.
> 
> The author of this article is particularly clueless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
Click to expand...

All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
Click to expand...


HUH??   It sounds like you actually want the Palestinians to have their own Palestinian State with self determination. without Israel to provide for them any longer.  Left on their own the Palestinians would massacre each other over who will them.  I sure could never wish such a plight upon them.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*What Next for Palestine and the Palestinians*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
Click to expand...


Please TODAY disconnect electricity, water, no loads of trucks into Gaza from Israel or Egypt. 
ZERO relationship. ZERO aid.
Our border stays close forever, we don't hear we don't look.

Zero tolerance for even a bird fart from that direction. Gaza is Iran - let's see where that leaves them in relation to reality, Israel, Egypt and Europe. Because no one will let Iran establish a base in the Mediterranean.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain.
> 
> How is providing electricity, clean water, access in and out of the country, and employment "an effort to destroy Gaza"?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
Click to expand...

 

How much UNRWA money went into Abbas palace and jet?
How much ended up in Arafat swiss account?
How much ended up in Hamas pockets?
One fact  #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel. 

How do You imagine the immediate transition while having no coordination in regards to their neighbors?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?



SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.  

But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?

The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).  

The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't understand my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much UNRWA money went into Abbas palace and jet?
> How much ended up in Arafat swiss account?
> How much ended up in Hamas pockets?
> One fact  #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> How do You imagine the immediate transition while having no coordination in regards to their neighbors?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> One fact #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.


Before Israel they were 0% reliable on Israel and they were much better off.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hence the request for an explanation.  You CAN write a coherent argument for your position, can't you?  Or do you just post senseless videos?
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much UNRWA money went into Abbas palace and jet?
> How much ended up in Arafat swiss account?
> How much ended up in Hamas pockets?
> One fact  #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> How do You imagine the immediate transition while having no coordination in regards to their neighbors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One fact #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel they were 0% reliable on Israel and they were much better off.
Click to expand...


Sophistry. Before Israel they were reliant on the Ottomans and Egyptians, and riding donkeys.
You'r argument is absurd.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?


Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?

Indeed, Israel has been a great help.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
Click to expand...


Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.

They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much UNRWA money went into Abbas palace and jet?
> How much ended up in Arafat swiss account?
> How much ended up in Hamas pockets?
> One fact  #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> How do You imagine the immediate transition while having no coordination in regards to their neighbors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One fact #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel they were 0% reliable on Israel and they were much better off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sophistry. Before Israel they were reliant on the Ottomans and Egyptians, and riding donkeys.
> You'r argument is absurd.
Click to expand...

Empires do no hold territory to support the people. They hold territory to exploit the people.

Your argument is absurd.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
Click to expand...

They would be much better off without the occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any new reagional arrangement for Gaza will inevitably go through coordination with Israel and Egypt.
> This is a natural order of things for any govt that wants effective independence - enter into formal relations with the neighbors.
> 
> Nobody owes them anything -the job of improving Gaza is on Hamas.
> 
> 
> 
> All we have to do is get Israel's fat ass out of the way so that the Palestinians can rebuild their own economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much UNRWA money went into Abbas palace and jet?
> How much ended up in Arafat swiss account?
> How much ended up in Hamas pockets?
> One fact  #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> How do You imagine the immediate transition while having no coordination in regards to their neighbors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One fact #BDS-holes don't like is that Palestinian economy 78% reliable on Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel they were 0% reliable on Israel and they were much better off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sophistry. Before Israel they were reliant on the Ottomans and Egyptians, and riding donkeys.
> You'r argument is absurd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Empires do no hold territory to support the people. They hold territory to exploit the people.
> 
> Your argument is absurd.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I'm saying about future of Gaza under Hamas and Iran:

_*"Empires do no hold territory to support the people. They hold territory to exploit the people."*





_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you embrace the quaint Islamist notion that your acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement without consequence. When your heroes use civilian infrastructure to wage war, that infrastructure becomes a war target. 

Indeed, this has been explained to you dozens of times, yet you’re still unable to understand.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
Click to expand...


Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you embrace the quaint Islamist notion that your acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement without consequence. When your heroes use civilian infrastructure to wage war, that infrastructure becomes a war target.
> 
> Indeed, this has been explained to you dozens of times, yet you’re still unable to understand.
Click to expand...

Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good girl.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't need that without the occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you embrace the quaint Islamist notion that your acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement without consequence. When your heroes use civilian infrastructure to wage war, that infrastructure becomes a war target.
> 
> Indeed, this has been explained to you dozens of times, yet you’re still unable to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


How else do You call a group that drags bodies of their own people on the streets to demonstrate power?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
Click to expand...


Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.

There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
Click to expand...

Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> 
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
Click to expand...



Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you embrace the quaint Islamist notion that your acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement without consequence. When your heroes use civilian infrastructure to wage war, that infrastructure becomes a war target.
> 
> Indeed, this has been explained to you dozens of times, yet you’re still unable to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How else do You call a group that drags bodies of their own people on the streets to demonstrate power?
Click to expand...

They aren't "their own people." They work for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
Click to expand...

That is what they* say.*

Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you embrace the quaint Islamist notion that your acts of Islamic terrorism are an entitlement without consequence. When your heroes use civilian infrastructure to wage war, that infrastructure becomes a war target.
> 
> Indeed, this has been explained to you dozens of times, yet you’re still unable to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good girl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How else do You call a group that drags bodies of their own people on the streets to demonstrate power?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They aren't "their own people." They work for Israel.
Click to expand...


Is this how civilized nations treat convicted treason?
The low You're willing to reach to excuse Islamists is astounding.

Then You go posting about  "America is a terrorist nation"."


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
Click to expand...


Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
Click to expand...

That ducks my post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gazans could have it all and more, if Hamas wouldn't start stupid wars it can't win.
> Having an independent functional state in Gaza endangers Hamas existence.
> 
> They have to make the choice. Better life for their people or endless struggle against Israel on the account of their people.
> 
> 
> 
> They would be much better off without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza is not occupied even per their own leaders. What they have is a border seal due to their alignment with Iran and weapons trafficking in Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They wouldn't need that without the occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
Click to expand...


Hamas is a clear threat to Egypt. You should make an attempt to inform yourself of facts as opposed to the safe haven of your conspiracy theories.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Control of borders by Egypt an Israel because Hamas activities endanger their security is no occupation. It's a normal conduct of civilized states.
> 
> There's a reason to why Egypt is jamming all Gaza telecommunications in the last weeks - *the Caliphate forces from Sinai within Gaza. *This chaos serves Hamas, and only Hamas, not the average Gazan citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks my post.
Click to expand...


How?
Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.

Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is no threat to Egypt. Hamas and Egypt are fighting the same people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
Click to expand...


P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why Egypt is on the verge of installing their own police in Gaza?
> Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main enemy after Iran. Hamas is aligned with both.
> Egypt also sees them as responsible for all arms trafficking from Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
> And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.
Click to expand...

Hamas is not the enemy of anyone in the region.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
> And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is not the enemy of anyone in the region.
Click to expand...


Gaza - Egypt border:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> 
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
> And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is not the enemy of anyone in the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza - Egypt border:
Click to expand...

It doesn't say who is shooting or why.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
> And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is not the enemy of anyone in the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza - Egypt border:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't say who is shooting or why.
Click to expand...


It says "an attempt at trafficking footage from the Egyptian side".
this is a thing that goes on a weekly basis.

The shots are usually a signal between groups on the border to communicate about army presence.
In this case it lead them to being compromised. Not a week goes by without such attempt to smuggle drugs and weapons from Sinai to Gaza.

How much longer do You think Egypt is willing to bear that?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what they* say.*
> 
> Neither of them tell Hamas what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they do - couple of last months have proved that everything that goes in Gaza today is coordinated with Hezballah and Iran.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ducks my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> Iran- Hezballah and Hamas have openly declared their cooperation. Nothing they do is uncoordinated with Iran.
> 
> Now go tell me birds pee in a rainbow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore  You really don't understand what's going on in the region right now do You?
> And what side did Hamas choose to align with...they're suicidal, allied with everyones' enemy in the region and think everyone owes them something beyond a bullet in the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is not the enemy of anyone in the region.
Click to expand...


Except for fatah, and the Egyptians, and the israelis. Did I miss anyone?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*For fear of assassination: Hamas seeks Iranian aid for the release of a missile engineer*

According to Hamas sources, the movement has recently increased its dependence on Iran in terms of receiving financial aid and weapons, and the reconciliation process with Fatah failed and received its "death blow" after the assassination attempt on Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah Did not succeed in toppling Mahmoud Abbas and "selling" him the Hezbollah model in Lebanon and now it has to deal with the heavy economic sanctions imposed by Mahmoud Abbas on the Gaza Strip.

This week we received further proof of the close ties between Hamas and Iran.

According to a March 26 report in the Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar, which is affiliated with Hezbollah, Hamas asked Iran to mediate with the Iraqi authorities in order to bring about the release of the Iraqi scientist Taha Al-Jaburi, a member of the military wing of the detained movement In the Iraqi prison.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
Click to expand...



You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza. 

Madness.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
Click to expand...

Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is that Israel will still control everything. So how is anything going to improve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMEBODY has to control things.  Somebody has to provide the citizens of Gaza with basic needs like electricity and clean water and sewers and medical supplies and concrete for houses and hospitals and schools.
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement".  Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement?  Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals?  Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not a shortage of resources.  The humanitarian problems in Gaza are a direct result of resources being shifted to terrorism.  (blah, blah, blah, "resistance", whatever).
> 
> The problem in Gaza is not Israeli "control" (which is minimal) but Hamas' control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess it depends on what you call "improvement". Would repairing the water infrastructure be an improvement? Building new schools, repairing homes and hospitals? Providing adequate electricity for your citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the water that Israel destroyed, or the schools that Israel bombed, or the homes and hospitals that Israel bombed, or the electricity that Israel bombed?
> 
> Indeed, Israel has been a great help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
Click to expand...


I see nothing to indicate Israel wants a siege. You have an identifiable pattern of making statements you cannot support.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Killing jews and advancing the 7th century musings of an Arab-warlord is far more important than education for girls in the ummah.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.



Palestinian mentality.  "We are helpless and no matter what we do those evil Joooooos are going to get us."  Give me a break.  

Of course! it matters what the Palestinians do.  You are trying to tell me that if Gazans stopped "resisting" (code for violent behaviour) and channeled all their resources and aide from the international community into clean water and sewage treatment and electricity and trade and employment opportunities and nice hotels and tourism that the lives of Gazans would NOT improve?

Madness.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.

In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.  

No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
Click to expand...


He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.

Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
Click to expand...

There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.

Mostly it is political name calling.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are foolishly arguing that continuing to put resources towards arms smuggling and tunnels in a futile attempt to destroy Israel is an improvement over working with Israel to provide water, sewage treatment, electricity, trade and employment opportunities to the citizens of Gaza.
> 
> Madness.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
Click to expand...


As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.

Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.

It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wants its siege. It doesn't matter what the Palestinians do.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
Click to expand...

For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
Click to expand...


The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.

Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.

You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is another case where the Arab Palestinians are trying to make a case based on emotion and not on acts in the furtherance of peace ⇒ with the restoration of public order and safety.
> 
> In this case the complaint of "siege" → is an operation, → in which the requirements of the Hague Regulation, International Humanitarian Law under Article 43, → conducted within that territory that was abandon into the hands of the Israeli Government, with the aim of forcing Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighter to surrender; adopting a peaceful posture.  Such Article 43 operations include those actions conducted to prevent "criminal acts" directed against Israel _(or any other State)_ → intended or calculated to create a state of terror in the minds of particular persons _(Israelis)_ or any group of persons or populations.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians maintain a mistaken belief and strong conviction that they are the victims in the conflict; that they are the aggrieved party and defending their nation; harmed by the Jewish People (State of Israel).  The Arab Palestinians, among other concepts, justify the current nature of their struggle against Israel, in terms of the liberation of the entirety of the territory to with the Order in Council applied in 1922 --- what they call Palestine.  The armed struggle, while granting legitimacy to the existence and activity of the “struggle organizations” – namely, the Palestinian terror organizations and their activity.
> 
> No matter what the belief --- held by the Arab Palestinians, the central issue for the Israelis is the furtherance of the principle of equal rights and self-determination of the Jewish People.  This includes the striking the necessary political posture to protect against credible threats or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of The State of Israel; The Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
Click to expand...


Hamas as much as al-Qaida doesn't have any borders.

Israeli civilians are protected persons, Hamas operatives are not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.
> 
> Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.
> 
> You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.
Click to expand...

Those are not attack tunnels.

I have seen that allegation but never any proof.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping that terrorist crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas as much as al-Qaida doesn't have any borders.
> 
> Israeli civilians are protected persons, Hamas operatives are not.
Click to expand...

Hamas is a Palestinian resistance group. They operate inside Palestine's borders.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.
> 
> Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.
> 
> You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are not attack tunnels.
> 
> I have seen that allegation but never any proof.
Click to expand...


Actually, they are attack tunnels. Your apologetics for islamic terrorists was expected.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.
> 
> Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.
> 
> You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are not attack tunnels.
> 
> I have seen that allegation but never any proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are attack tunnels. Your apologetics for islamic terrorists was expected.
Click to expand...

The tunnels into Egypt are only for trade.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas as much as al-Qaida doesn't have any borders.
> 
> Israeli civilians are protected persons, Hamas operatives are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is a Palestinian resistance group. They operate inside Palestine's borders.
Click to expand...


Do they even have "Palestine" in their name?
It's an Islamist group aimed at "liberating" *any* land they reach from Jewish presence.
Everything else is excuses.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas as much as al-Qaida doesn't have any borders.
> 
> Israeli civilians are protected persons, Hamas operatives are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is a Palestinian resistance group. They operate inside Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they even have "Palestine" in their name?
> It's an Islamist group aimed at "liberating" *any* land they reach from Jewish presence.
> Everything else is excuses.
Click to expand...

You are grasping at straws.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hamas as much as al-Qaida doesn't have any borders.
> 
> Israeli civilians are protected persons, Hamas operatives are not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas is a Palestinian resistance group. They operate inside Palestine's borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they even have "Palestine" in their name?
> It's an Islamist group aimed at "liberating" *any* land they reach from Jewish presence.
> Everything else is excuses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws.
Click to expand...

Yet couldn't refute any of that.
Your definitions play against You once applied equally.

I'm hitting at the root.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.
> 
> Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.
> 
> You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are not attack tunnels.
> 
> I have seen that allegation but never any proof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they are attack tunnels. Your apologetics for islamic terrorists was expected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The tunnels into Egypt are only for trade.
Click to expand...


Except when they're used to attack Egyptian soldiers. If you ignore the facts, the facts don't go away.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's spot on, and that's why You can't refute anything rationally.
> 
> Q.Since when did *#BDS-holes* become terrorism experts?
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As far as I found, You're correct that there's no universal definition.
> 
> Yet I disagree that it's merely a name calling, simply because terrorism today is usually discussed in political conversations is the result of specific example of how terrorism is used with the aim to evade political means in any possible situation.
> 
> It doesn't mean that terrorism in most of these cases in regards to Israel isn't primarily rooted in historic racism against Jews as a whole in the middle east, *without connection to any political argument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tunnels built by Hamas and extending into Egyption territory obviously refutes your fallacious claim.
> 
> Egyptian soldiers killed by Hamas obviously refutes your other fallacious claim.
> 
> You throw around falsehoods like the typical islamic terrorist propagandist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are not attack tunnels.
> 
> I have seen that allegation but never any proof.
Click to expand...


How Hamas uses its tunnels to kill and capture Israeli soldiers


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Paul: this is another misconception based on a poor understanding of universal law; wherein the law makes it impossible for a set of prohibitions to be to have been violated → and yet → the legal judgment nevertheless conclude otherwise.

Whether we talk civil or criminal law, the codification of most every set of criminal statues has variations from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Robbery is not a crime that has the same elements of the offense in every jurisdiction _(ie Universally Defined)_  And as a matter of fact, there is no universally accepted statue that is accepted internationally that defines the elements of Robbery.  YET!  you would be hard pressed to point out a sovereignty that does not understand the concept of Robbery and that does not pursue prosecutorial action _(excluding failed states and rogue nations)_.  

The California statute Penal Code 211 (Robbery) requires the assailant accomplished the crime "by means of force or fear."  However, the Ohio Revised Code 2911.02 (Robbery) has the element that the assailant has a deadly weapon on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control.   Under your logic, the two states have different definitions of "Robbery."   The concept of a universal definition is not a key component.



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.


*(COMMENT)*

The argument that the last half century of hostile Arab Palestinian activity are not terrorist acts is based on the absence of a "universally recognized definition" of terrorism.  The act of terrorism need only be a violation of law within the venue the act was committed.  

Any sovereignty _(self-governing territory)_  can define its own laws regarding such criminal acts.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Paul: this is another misconception based on a poor understanding of universal law; wherein the law makes it impossible for a set of prohibitions to be to have been violated → and yet → the legal judgment nevertheless conclude otherwise.
> 
> Whether we talk civil or criminal law, the codification of most every set of criminal statues has variations from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
> 
> Robbery is not a crime that has the same elements of the offense in every jurisdiction _(ie Universally Defined)_  And as a matter of fact, there is no universally accepted statue that is accepted internationally that defines the elements of Robbery.  YET!  you would be hard pressed to point out a sovereignty that does not understand the concept of Robbery and that does not pursue prosecutorial action _(excluding failed states and rogue nations)_.
> 
> The California statute Penal Code 211 (Robbery) requires the assailant accomplished the crime "by means of force or fear."  However, the Ohio Revised Code 2911.02 (Robbery) has the element that the assailant has a deadly weapon on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control.   Under your logic, the two states have different definitions of "Robbery."   The concept of a universal definition is not a key component.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The argument that the last half century of hostile Arab Palestinian activity are not terrorist acts is based on the absence of a "universally recognized definition" of terrorism.  The act of terrorism need only be a violation of law within the venue the act was committed.
> 
> Any sovereignty _(self-governing territory)_  can define its own laws regarding such criminal acts.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Can they export their definition outside of their territory?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.



You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.  

Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.  

And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.


The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.
Click to expand...




“The law applies or not depending on the situation.”

Another remarkable legal brief from Mullah Tinmore.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.
Click to expand...


Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
Click to expand...

No.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.



[/QUOTE]
For example:

Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
Click to expand...

For example:

Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.[/QUOTE]
Israel murders civilians all of the time.

You never play the terrorist card on them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
Click to expand...

Israel murders civilians all of the time.

You never play the terrorist card on them.[/QUOTE]

Why?My definitions are not the problem here.

When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.

Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong. 
So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
Click to expand...


Why?My definitions are not the problem here.

When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.

Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong.
So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
.[/QUOTE]
You forgot to mention Israel bombing the crap out of civilians in Gaza or shooting up protestors in the West Bank.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Ultimately (high percentage), the autonomous and self-governing territories adopt their own laws through their form of government.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Paul: this is another misconception based on a poor understanding of universal law; wherein the law makes it impossible for a set of prohibitions to be to have been violated → and yet → the legal judgment nevertheless conclude otherwise.
> 
> Whether we talk civil or criminal law, the codification of most every set of criminal statues with slight variations from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
> 
> Robbery is not a crime that has the same elements of the offense in every jurisdiction _(ie Universally Defined)_  And as a matter of fact, there is no universally accepted statue that is accepted internationally that defines the elements of Robbery.  YET!  you would be hard pressed to point out a sovereignty that does not understand the concept of Robbery and that does not pursue prosecutorial action _(excluding failed states and rogue nations)_.
> 
> The California statute Penal Code 211 (Robbery) requires the assailant accomplished the crime "by means of force or fear."  However, the Ohio Revised Code 2911.02 (Robbery) has the element that the assailant has a deadly weapon on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control.   Under your logic, the two states have different definitions of "Robbery."   The concept of a universal definition is not a key component.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The argument that the last half century of hostile Arab Palestinian activities are not terrorist acts is based on the absence of a "universally recognized definition" of terrorism.  The act of terrorism need only be a violation of law within the venue the act was committed.
> 
> Any sovereignty _(self-governing territory)_  can define its own laws regarding such criminal acts.  The Russian Federations has legislated a very extensive set of anti-Terrorism Statutes.  The latest legislation "introduces criminal liability for “failure to report a crime” that someone “has been planning, is perpetrating, or has perpetrated.”
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can they export their definition outside of their territory?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Laws are not "exported;" _per say_.  However, there are several commonwealths that are nations that are related, usually by a common Monarch.  As you already know, the largest Commonwealth of Nations (over 50 members) is that which was formally known as the British Commonwealth.  Our nearest neighbor --- Canada --- is a member of that "Commonwealth of Nations" _(a free association)_ and their sovereign and Head of State (Queen Elizabeth II) is a common thread among the member nations.  These nations have very similar legal, judicial and law enforcement structures, as well as a very similar military program.  So, the British Terrorism Acts and the definition of terrorism is often reflected the same within The Commonwealth. 

The Russian Federation _(largest country in the world with 22 republics and more)_ and the Confederation of Helvetica _(Switzerland --- technically a federal republic with 26 fully sovereign states)_ have nearly identical laws throughout their respective territories; much closer in most cases than that of a Commonwealth of Nations.

BTW:  The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is a member territory of the Russian Federation.

So, laws are not "exported" as so much as their influence like members and are adopted.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?My definitions are not the problem here.
> 
> When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
> When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
> When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.
> 
> Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
> But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong.
> So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
> .
Click to expand...




> You forgot to mention Israel bombing the crap out of civilians in Gaza or shooting up protestors in the West Bank.



You forgot to mention Israel has the to resist acts of Islamic terrorism.

Admit it. You are thrilled when hamas provokes Israel to respond with military force. You are thrilled for those dead bodies you can parade around. You and the rest of the Islamic terrorist cowards who provoke an Israeli military response and then hike up your man-dresses and run when the in-coming starts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Ultimately (high percentage), the autonomous and self-governing territories adopt their own laws through their form of government.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Paul: this is another misconception based on a poor understanding of universal law; wherein the law makes it impossible for a set of prohibitions to be to have been violated → and yet → the legal judgment nevertheless conclude otherwise.
> 
> Whether we talk civil or criminal law, the codification of most every set of criminal statues with slight variations from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
> 
> Robbery is not a crime that has the same elements of the offense in every jurisdiction _(ie Universally Defined)_  And as a matter of fact, there is no universally accepted statue that is accepted internationally that defines the elements of Robbery.  YET!  you would be hard pressed to point out a sovereignty that does not understand the concept of Robbery and that does not pursue prosecutorial action _(excluding failed states and rogue nations)_.
> 
> The California statute Penal Code 211 (Robbery) requires the assailant accomplished the crime "by means of force or fear."  However, the Ohio Revised Code 2911.02 (Robbery) has the element that the assailant has a deadly weapon on or about the offender's person or under the offender's control.   Under your logic, the two states have different definitions of "Robbery."   The concept of a universal definition is not a key component.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no universally recognized definition of terrorism.
> 
> Mostly it is political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The argument that the last half century of hostile Arab Palestinian activities are not terrorist acts is based on the absence of a "universally recognized definition" of terrorism.  The act of terrorism need only be a violation of law within the venue the act was committed.
> 
> Any sovereignty _(self-governing territory)_  can define its own laws regarding such criminal acts.  The Russian Federations has legislated a very extensive set of anti-Terrorism Statutes.  The latest legislation "introduces criminal liability for “failure to report a crime” that someone “has been planning, is perpetrating, or has perpetrated.”
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can they export their definition outside of their territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Laws are not "exported;" _per say_.  However, there are several commonwealths that are nations that are related, usually by a common Monarch.  As you already know, the largest Commonwealth of Nations (over 50 members) is that which was formally known as the British Commonwealth.  Our nearest neighbor --- Canada --- is a member of that "Commonwealth of Nations" _(a free association)_ and their sovereign and Head of State (Queen Elizabeth II) is a common thread among the member nations.  These nations have very similar legal, judicial and law enforcement structures, as well as a very similar military program.  So, the British Terrorism Acts and the definition of terrorism is often reflected the same within The Commonwealth.
> 
> The Russian Federation _(largest country in the world with 22 republics and more)_ and the Confederation of Helvetica _(Switzerland --- technically a federal republic with 26 fully sovereign states)_ have nearly identical laws throughout their respective territories; much closer in most cases than that of a Commonwealth of Nations.
> 
> BTW:  The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is a member territory of the Russian Federation.
> 
> So, laws are not "exported" as so much as their influence like members and are adopted.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You clearly did not understand my post.

Nice piece of verbosity though.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Violations of law, are not justified because others (may or may not have) committed similar legal indiscretions.



P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
Click to expand...

Israel murders civilians all of the time.

You never play the terrorist card on them.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

You cannot compare the _(Israeli)_ actions taken under the Law of Land Warfare, the Geneva Convention, or the Charter Right of Self-Defense, WITH _(Arab Palestinian)_ violations of Customary IHL Rules.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?My definitions are not the problem here.
> 
> When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
> When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
> When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.
> 
> Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
> But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong.
> So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to mention Israel bombing the crap out of civilians in Gaza or shooting up protestors in the West Bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You forgot to mention Israel has the to resist acts of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Admit it. You are thrilled when hamas provokes Israel to respond with military force. You are thrilled for those dead bodies you can parade around. You and the rest of the Islamic terrorist cowards who provoke an Israeli military response and then hike up your man-dresses and run when the in-coming starts.
Click to expand...

More terrorist cards. More points for you.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?My definitions are not the problem here.
> 
> When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
> When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
> When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.
> 
> Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
> But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong.
> So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
> .
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention Israel bombing the crap out of civilians in Gaza or shooting up protestors in the West Bank.[/QUOTE]

Yes usually civilized countries bomb the Islamists out of existence, less civilians would die if Hamas weren't cowards hiding in Hospitals and under the skirts of their women.

Then again You and Hamas have no problem with dragging the bodies of their own people on the streets.

Terrorism explained in short - war outwards and war withing, against Your own, and merely for the continuation of the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Violations of law, are not justified because others (may or may not have) committed similar legal indiscretions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You cannot compare the _(Israeli)_ actions taken under the Law of Land Warfare, the Geneva Convention, or the Charter Right of Self-Defense, WITH _(Arab Palestinian)_ violations of Customary IHL Rules.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
You can't claim self defense against occupied territory.

Look it up.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
Click to expand...



Only if they are Jewish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?My definitions are not the problem here.
> 
> When a toddler was burned by Israelis purposefully it was terrorism.
> When Igal Amir murdered Rabin it was terrorism.
> When Goldstein went to murder Muslims during prayer it was terrorism.
> 
> Unfortunately - using Your logic I could easily prove that the attacks I've mentioned were totally legit
> But You won't even confront Hamas dragging dead bodies of their own people as something wrong.
> So I'm not expecting too much sense coming from You.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forgot to mention Israel bombing the crap out of civilians in Gaza or shooting up protestors in the West Bank.
Click to expand...


Yes usually civilized countries bomb the Islamists out of existence, less civilians would die if Hamas weren't cowards hiding in Hospitals and under the skirts of their women.

Then again You and Hamas have no problem with dragging the bodies of their own people on the streets.

Terrorism explained in short - war without while keeping the war withing against Your own, and merely for the continuation of the conflict. [/QUOTE]
Oh jeese, more BS Israeli talking points.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore
How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.



Whether GCIV with respect to protected person applies or not is irrelevant.  It is a CRIME to remove a civilian's right to life by using weapons that kill them.  Sheesh.  This isn't that HARD, you know.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,





P F Tinmore said:


> You clearly did not understand my post.
> 
> Nice piece of verbosity though.


*(COMMENT)*

You are attempting to lay the ground-work to justify the use of acts _(Commonly held under as violations of Customary and IHL law by)_ Arab Palestinians.

As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever.  No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.

You may quibble over the definition of "terrorism" but it most definitely includes the support and participation for Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

I say Again:

Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever.
No Arab Palestinian grievance,
no Arab Palestinian goal,
No Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
> 
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...


I've seen this argument from him before.  He is trying to argue that people who have the same nationality as the "occupiers" are not civilians and therefore ARE fair game during conflict as they have none of the human rights afforded all other peoples.  And, of course, he applies this only to Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??


It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.


Do you have a link for that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've seen this argument from him before.  He is trying to argue that people who have the same nationality as the "occupiers" are not civilians and therefore ARE fair game during conflict as they have none of the human rights afforded all other peoples.  And, of course, he applies this only to Jews.
Click to expand...

Don't blame me. I am just posting what I read.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.



Don't be ridiculous.  The Arab Palestinians, and the Gazans in particular, have every single option available to them.  The fact that they continue to provoke Israel with ineffective acts of violence is a matter of CHOICE.  They have plenty of other choices.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've seen this argument from him before.  He is trying to argue that people who have the same nationality as the "occupiers" are not civilians and therefore ARE fair game during conflict as they have none of the human rights afforded all other peoples.  And, of course, he applies this only to Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame me. I am just posting what I read.
Click to expand...


I can't believe you just owned that.  Do you realize how hideous it is to believe that certain groups of people have NO human rights?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep tossing around "international law" as though you can make it mean anything you want it to mean.
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.  For example, Americans are protected under the US Constitution.  That doesn't mean Canadians have no rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".  Just because Israeli civilians do not fall under the definition "protected persons" in GCIV does not mean they are not protected by other IHL, including the right to life.  *(And frankly, to imply otherwise -- that Israelis and Jews are not "protected" and have no right to life -- is vehemently, uncompromisingly evil.  It is the very basis for the Shoah)*.
> 
> And while "terrorism" may not have a legal definition, it has a very clear everyday one:  The use of violence, usually against innocents ,to cause fear and pressure for political ends.  This is most certainly what Hamas is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a person falls outside a definition of a particular convention or legal instrument does not mean that no other conventions or legal instruments apply to that person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law applies or not depending on the situation. In the case of occupation, protected person does not apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are You saying civilians are "fair game" during war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only if they are Jewish.
Click to expand...


Scratch a #BDS-hole...and he'll eventually himself prove beyond any doubt why Jews deserve  Israel.
Will get right over his head though


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...


Are you trying to argue that terrorist acts (specifically the murder of civilians in civilian settings) is legal, under certain circumstances?  Do YOU have a link for THAT?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  The Arab Palestinians, and the Gazans in particular, have every single option available to them.  The fact that they continue to provoke Israel with ineffective acts of violence is a matter of CHOICE.  They have plenty of other choices.
Click to expand...

I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
Click to expand...


Actually, it is the Arabs-Moslems who are the aggressors. Self defense is an inherent right.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be ridiculous.  The Arab Palestinians, and the Gazans in particular, have every single option available to them.  The fact that they continue to provoke Israel with ineffective acts of violence is a matter of CHOICE.  They have plenty of other choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
Click to expand...


Arabs-Moslems choose to attack Israel thus provoking a response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to argue that terrorist acts (specifically the murder of civilians in civilian settings) is legal, under certain circumstances?  Do YOU have a link for THAT?
Click to expand...

"Civilian" is not the proper term to use.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.



The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to argue that terrorist acts (specifically the murder of civilians in civilian settings) is legal, under certain circumstances?  Do YOU have a link for THAT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Civilian" is not the proper term to use.
Click to expand...


Yes, yes.  I know.  You want to find a term which makes it legal to kill certain groups of people based on their belonging to that group.  Out of curiosity, what term would you use in my sentence?  Non-combatants?  Innocents?  People?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

More subterfuge.  You have a lack of understanding.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Violations of law, are not justified because others (may or may not have) committed similar legal indiscretions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For example: Hamas does not operate outside its own borders and does not attack protected persons as defined by the Fourth Geneva Convention. So where is the terrorism? Yet Israel throws around terrorism like candy at a blossom time parade when it comes to Hamas. This is just political name calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For example:
> 
> Hamas murdered civilians in Tel-Aviv and Tiberias, in a cafe and on a bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders civilians all of the time.
> 
> You never play the terrorist card on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot compare the _(Israeli)_ actions taken under the Law of Land Warfare, the Geneva Convention, or the Charter Right of Self-Defense, WITH _(Arab Palestinian)_ violations of Customary IHL Rules.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You can't claim self-defense against the occupied territory.

Look it up.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

If, an attack originated from an Occupied Area, but targets another country, it is self-defense under Charter Article 51:  "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member."

The Israelis have the authority to take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, pursuant to Article 43 HR.

Protected persons (the Arab Palestinians) who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (ie Israel) are subject to that force necessary to subdue and apprehend offenders:
Article 68 GCIV

Liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. 

 The death penalty may be pronounced against a protected person (Arab Palestinians) In any case, Arab Palestinian is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons.​
Don't try to avoid the actual situation in the Territories and the action actually taken by the Arab Palestinian.  They are responsible for their actions and liable for what they do. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.
Click to expand...

Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> If, an attack originated from an Occupied Area, but targets another country,


The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
Click to expand...

Except when Islamic terrorists attack Israel.

How Hamas uses its tunnels to kill and capture Israeli soldiers


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

Paragraph 7:  No Policy to Fight Terrorism Can Succeed without Addressing Conditions Promoting Its Spread, Secretary-General Tells Security Council Debate
SG/SM/14764-SC/10883
15 January 2013
v/r
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, an attack originated from an Occupied Area, but targets another country,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
Click to expand...


Except when the Islamist terrorists burrow into Egypt or Israel.

Israel says it destroyed 'attack tunnel' that went from Gaza into Israel and Egypt


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.



If they are not attacking Israel -- then they are attacking Jews.  They attack Jews for being present in a space they believe should be Jew-free.  Thank you for acknowledging that the violence committed by Arab "Palestinians" is not an attack on Israel -- but just an attack on Jews.  We agree.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Paragraph 7:  No Policy to Fight Terrorism Can Succeed without Addressing Conditions Promoting Its Spread, Secretary-General Tells Security Council Debate
> SG/SM/14764-SC/10883
> 15 January 2013
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

No mention of Palestine here.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.



Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish  and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Paragraph 7:  No Policy to Fight Terrorism Can Succeed without Addressing Conditions Promoting Its Spread, Secretary-General Tells Security Council Debate
> SG/SM/14764-SC/10883
> 15 January 2013
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No mention of Palestine here.
Click to expand...


You’re not paying attention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they are not attacking Israel -- then they are attacking Jews.  They attack Jews for being present in a space they believe should be Jew-free.  Thank you for acknowledging that the violence committed by Arab "Palestinians" is not an attack on Israel -- but just an attack on Jews.  We agree.
Click to expand...

Why would Jews be in Palestinian Villages and neighborhoods?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this is more criminal avoidance in an attempt to suggest a legal defense against criminal acts of which they are guilty.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, an attack originated from an Occupied Area, but targets another country,
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What territory do the Arab Palestinians "ACTUALLY" have and exercise sovereignty?  

✪  If the answer is none, then the Arab Palestinians cannot claim occupation.
✪  If the answer is yes, then there must be some defined area in which the Arab Palestinian is the ultimate authority and perform the duties of a country.  Exactly where is that?​
Don't raise that "Boundary Issue" --- because the Arab Palestinian controls nothing.  And if they control nothing, then they have no country.

This nonsense of attempting to claim the British defined territory originally covered by the 1922 Palestine Order in Council has no validity what so ever.  The Arab Palestinians never had sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish  and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
Click to expand...

This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Don't raise that "Boundary Issue" --- because the Arab Palestinian controls nothing. And if they control nothing, then they have no country.


Link.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why would Jews be in Palestinian Villages and neighborhoods?



Jewish "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) would be in "Palestine" (was and is now again called Israel) for the exact same reason that Arab "Palestinians" are in "Palestine".  Its their homeland.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is a universal application.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As is understood by the civilized world, Nothing can justify Arab Palestinian terrorism — ever. No Arab Palestinian grievance, no Arab Palestinian goal, no Arab Palestinian cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Paragraph 7:  No Policy to Fight Terrorism Can Succeed without Addressing Conditions Promoting Its Spread, Secretary-General Tells Security Council Debate
> SG/SM/14764-SC/10883
> 15 January 2013
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No mention of Palestine here.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What?  You expect the UN to list every single entity that is involved in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and grant the use of territory for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens?

We simply say:  Thou shall not be a terrorist.  It fits on the stone tablets better.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders ...



Yes.  Exactly.  And there are two groups of "Palestinians" seeking sovereign self-determination within "Palestine's" international borders.  That is EXACTLY what makes it an internal civil war.  And if its a civil war -- there is no occupation.  Just a dispute.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish  and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Where is that?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> What? You expect the UN to list every single entity that is involved in organizing,


It is expected when Palestine is not mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish  and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where is that?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A country does not cease to exist because it is under military occupation.

Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. That remains with the people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Yes. Exactly. And there are two groups of "Palestinians" seeking sovereign self-determination within "Palestine's" international borders.


Indeed, the native Palestinians and foreign settlers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no connection between theevents concerning the Treaty of Lausanne and today's boundary disputes. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What? You expect the UN to list every single entity that is involved in organizing,
> 
> 
> 
> It is expected when Palestine is not mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Come on, get it together.

v/r
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the native Palestinians and foreign settlers.



Doesn't matter.  Still an internal dispute between two groups of people.  There is no other State involved.  The fact that some members of a particular territory seeking self-determination are immigrants, or their parents were, or their grandparents were. is immaterial to the legal scope of the conflict.  It is NOT a conflict between States.  It is an internal dispute within international boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no connection between theevents concerning the Treaty of Lausanne and today's boundary disputes.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What? You expect the UN to list every single entity that is involved in organizing,
> 
> 
> 
> It is expected when Palestine is not mentioned in the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Come on, get it together.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

What boundary dispute?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the native Palestinians and foreign settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter.  Still an internal dispute between two groups of people.  There is no other State involved.  The fact that some members of a particular territory seeking self-determination are immigrants, or their parents were, or their grandparents were. is immaterial to the legal scope of the conflict.  It is NOT a conflict between States.  It is an internal dispute within international boundaries.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> It is an internal dispute within international boundaries.


Glad you finally recognized that.

Whose international boundaries?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

None of this is correct.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where is that?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist because it is under military occupation.
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. That remains with the people.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is a standing argument to be made that "the official creation of the country took place at the San Remo Peace Conference where the Balfour Declaration was adopted by the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers as the basis for the future administration of Palestine which would henceforth be recognized as the Jewish National Home."

Your interpretation of "sovereignty" in the context of geo-political disputes is off-center.



			
				Dr Walid Abdulrahim said:
			
		

> ψ  Sovereignty in regard to a territory is known as territorial sovereignty.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.[3]   It has a positive and a negative aspect.[4]  The first aspect relates to the exclusivity of the right of the State with regard to its own territory, while the second aspect refers to the obligation to protect the rights of other States."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> None of this is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never cross a border into another country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where is that?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist because it is under military occupation.
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. That remains with the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a standing argument to be made that "the official creation of the country took place at the San Remo Peace Conference where the Balfour Declaration was adopted by the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers as the basis for the future administration of Palestine which would henceforth be recognized as the Jewish National Home."
> 
> Your interpretation of "sovereignty" in the context of geo-political disputes is off-center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Walid Abdulrahim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ψ  Sovereignty in regard to a territory is known as territorial sovereignty.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.[3]   It has a positive and a negative aspect.[4]  The first aspect relates to the exclusivity of the right of the State with regard to its own territory, while the second aspect refers to the obligation to protect the rights of other States."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Indeed, and Palestine is a successor state to Turkey.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is yet another attempt to thro in a bit of chaos.



P F Tinmore said:


> What boundary dispute?


(COMMENT)

Because there is no unified voice or true leadership among the Arab Palestinians, it is hard to tell you who's in charge.

Since the PLO is still the sole representative then the dispute is defined as:







Key Facts
International Law
Our Position
The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine. A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967. The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem.​

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Whose international boundaries?



The only people with a recognized, established sovereignty AND full legal title to the territory, according to treaties and other legal instruments, is the Jewish people.  The answer to your question, then, is ISRAEL.  If you have to choose -- Israel has the better claim.

However, one is not compelled to choose.  It isn't a zero sum game.  There are two competing peoples vying for territory and self-determination in that territory.  One has LONG established the criteria for Statehood and has been recognized as such.  The other is still working on it.  Everyone recognizes that the territory is in dispute between these two people.  

The question for you, AGAIN, is why the territory can not be divided -- the same as the Ottoman Empire, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Korea, and dozens of others States which came about through a dissolution process of an existing territorial boundary into smaller territories.

Either you deny that this process is legal or you are playing special rules for Jews.  Which is it?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> None of this is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  It is an internal civil war between the Jewish and some Arab "Palestinians" (now called Israelis) and some Arab "Palestinians".  Therefore, there is no occupation and all your claims about no self-defense for occupiers is bogus.
> 
> 
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where is that?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist because it is under military occupation.
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. That remains with the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a standing argument to be made that "the official creation of the country took place at the San Remo Peace Conference where the Balfour Declaration was adopted by the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers as the basis for the future administration of Palestine which would henceforth be recognized as the Jewish National Home."
> 
> Your interpretation of "sovereignty" in the context of geo-political disputes is off-center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Walid Abdulrahim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ψ  Sovereignty in regard to a territory is known as territorial sovereignty.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.[3]   It has a positive and a negative aspect.[4]  The first aspect relates to the exclusivity of the right of the State with regard to its own territory, while the second aspect refers to the obligation to protect the rights of other States."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and Palestine is a successor state to Turkey.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are confusing the issue. It was the Treaty of Lausanne that created the “country of Pally’land”, correct?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.


Those are internationally recognized de facto borders. They are not international borders. Israel does not claim them to be their borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> The only people with a recognized, established sovereignty AND full legal title to the territory, *according to treaties and other legal instruments,* is the Jewish people.


Links to those documents?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> None of this is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> An international border controlled by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This all takes place inside Palestine's international borders so where do you get this crap?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where is that?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A country does not cease to exist because it is under military occupation.
> 
> Occupations do not acquire sovereignty. That remains with the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is a standing argument to be made that "the official creation of the country took place at the San Remo Peace Conference where the Balfour Declaration was adopted by the Supreme Council of the Principal Allied Powers as the basis for the future administration of Palestine which would henceforth be recognized as the Jewish National Home."
> 
> Your interpretation of "sovereignty" in the context of geo-political disputes is off-center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Walid Abdulrahim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ψ  Sovereignty in regard to a territory is known as territorial sovereignty.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.[3]   It has a positive and a negative aspect.[4]  The first aspect relates to the exclusivity of the right of the State with regard to its own territory, while the second aspect refers to the obligation to protect the rights of other States."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and Palestine is a successor state to Turkey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you are confusing the issue. It was the Treaty of Lausanne that created the “country of Pally’land”, correct?
Click to expand...

No, you haven't been following my posts.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people with a recognized, established sovereignty AND full legal title to the territory, *according to treaties and other legal instruments,* is the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> Links to those documents?
Click to expand...


Seriously?  Again?  You know what they are.  Don't waste our time. 

Now, why is it, exactly, that Palestine, of all the places in the world CAN'T be divided?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You just cannot cherry-pick the international interpretations that suit you.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and Palestine is a successor state to Turkey.


*(REFERENCES)*

•  UN Press Release on the *UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT* Press Release PAL/138 27 February 1948

•  The legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate” Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state.  A/AC.21/UK/42  25 February 1948

•   

*(COMMENT)*

Palestine was not the successor state to any previous sovereignty. 




 

 

Most Resepctfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people with a recognized, established sovereignty AND full legal title to the territory, *according to treaties and other legal instruments,* is the Jewish people.
> 
> 
> 
> Links to those documents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously?  Again?  You know what they are.  Don't waste our time.
> 
> Now, why is it, exactly, that Palestine, of all the places in the world CAN'T be divided?
Click to expand...

You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with international law.

You should read up.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with international law.
> 
> You should read up.



Nice duck.  Sweeties, I run circles around you with international law.  (Though Rocco slays it even better than I do.)

Answer my question.  Can Palestine be divided, yes or no?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You just cannot cherry-pick the international interpretations that suit you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and Palestine is a successor state to Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> •  UN Press Release on the *UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT* Press Release PAL/138 27 February 1948
> 
> •  The legal meaning of the “Termination of the Mandate” Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state.  A/AC.21/UK/42  25 February 1948
> 
> •  View attachment 185420
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Palestine was not the successor state to any previous sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 185420 View attachment 185425
> 
> Most Resepctfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are trying to smokescreen the issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with international law.
> 
> You should read up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.  Sweeties, I run circles around you with international law.  (Though Rocco slays it even better than I do.)
> 
> Answer my question.  Can Palestine be divided, yes or no?
Click to expand...

Not without the approval of the Palestinians. The Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181 so the Security Council did not implement the plan.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

We were talking about the dispute.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are internationally recognized de facto borders. They are not international borders. Israel does not claim them to be their borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As has been discussed before, the "international" demarcations are:

•  Article 3 - *International Boundary* The international boundary between *Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)

•  *Article II*  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the *former mandated territory* of Palestine,​
You will not that the "treaties" outline the "international boundaries."

Eventually, the Arab Palestinians, unless the get some political savy, will eventually an albatrose on the Arab League. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Not without the approval of the Palestinians.



You mean the Arab Palestinians.  And also not without the approval of Israel.  That is what a treaty IS -- an agreement of mutual recognition and boundaries of territory, and possibly other negotiated items.

But you admit then, that if both Parties agree there is no legal impediment to territorial division.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> We were talking about the dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are internationally recognized de facto borders. They are not international borders. Israel does not claim them to be their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As has been discussed before, the "international" demarcations are:
> 
> •  Article 3 - *International Boundary* The international boundary between *Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)
> 
> •  *Article II*  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the *former mandated territory* of Palestine,​
> You will not that the "treaties" outline the "international boundaries."
> 
> Eventually, the Arab Palestinians, unless the get some political savy, will eventually an albatrose on the Arab League.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Of course nobody explained how Israel can claim a Palestinian border without a treaty with Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not without the approval of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the Arab Palestinians.  And also not without the approval of Israel.  That is what a treaty IS -- an agreement of mutual recognition and boundaries of territory, and possibly other negotiated items.
> 
> But you admit then, that if both Parties agree there is no legal impediment to territorial division.
Click to expand...

That is true but that treaty would have to conform to international law. The occupation would have to end before a treaty can be made.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> That is true but that treaty would have to conform to international law. The occupation would have to end before a treaty can be made.



There is no occupation.  There is no external State in play here.  Its a civil dispute.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is true but that treaty would have to conform to international law. The occupation would have to end before a treaty can be made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no occupation.  there is no external State in play here.  Its a civil dispute.
Click to expand...

Then why does Rocco claim that the Palestinians violate the territorial rights of Israel.

It looks like you people make stuff up as you go along.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Then why does Rocco claim that the Palestinians violate the territorial rights of Israel.



Where does he say that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does Rocco claim that the Palestinians violate the territorial rights of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does he say that?
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, he has posted that many times.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those myths you Arab Palestinians cling to.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with the international law.
> 
> You should read up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.  Sweeties, I run circles around you with international law.  (Though Rocco slays it even better than I do.)
> 
> Answer my question.  Can Palestine be divided, yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not without the approval of the Palestinians. The Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181 so the Security Council did not implement the plan.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your interpretations are clearly incorrect concerning *A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947*.

■  Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
✪⇒  Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything.  The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.​


			
				General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
			
		

> PART - I  Section F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> *When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan* has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.



■  The claim is that the Security Council did not implement the plan.
✪⇒   The implmentation was delegated to UNPC.
✪⇒  Implementation by the UNSC was not a requirement.  However, the Resolution afforded the UN Palestine Commission ever latitude and discretion within the limits of the Resolution.​


			
				Step 14 said:
			
		

> 14. The Commission shall be *guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council* may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, *shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council*.





			
				UNPC Adjourns Sine Die • Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said:
			
		

> "that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the *resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*." This was a *UN Press Release** PAL/169** 17 May 1948* made as a matter of record.



The original plan for the establishment of the Jewish State (Part II Section B) was altered by the outcome of the Arab Invasion.

As you can see, the claims are quite false. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, don't be foolish.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We were talking about the dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are internationally recognized de facto borders. They are not international borders. Israel does not claim them to be their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As has been discussed before, the "international" demarcations are:
> 
> •  Article 3 - *International Boundary* The international boundary between *Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)
> 
> •  *Article II*  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the *former mandated territory* of Palestine,​
> You will note that the "treaties" outline the "international boundaries."
> 
> Eventually, the Arab Palestinians, unless they get some political savvy, will eventually an albatross on the Arab League.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, nobody explained how Israel can claim a Palestinian border without a treaty with Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

1.  Israel did not claim a border with the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem, or the Gaza Strip.

2.  The treaties were to conclude the 1948 War of Independence and to drawn an end to hostilities between the Arab Countries.

3.   All the Middle Eastern Arab Countries understood that the Arab Palestinians did not have any form of sovereignty to start with. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
Click to expand...


The Arabs chose to help Britain invade,
Ceded the land to an Arabian king
Declared war on all Jews.

All their choices.
What they have is what they deserve.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
Click to expand...

Why do You post here when You know so little?

Arabs do and did,one of the main reasons for the creation of Israel were the Arab pogroms against their Jewish neighbors.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they are not attacking Israel -- then they are attacking Jews.  They attack Jews for being present in a space they believe should be Jew-free.  Thank you for acknowledging that the violence committed by Arab "Palestinians" is not an attack on Israel -- but just an attack on Jews.  We agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Jews be in Palestinian Villages and neighborhoods?
Click to expand...


It's purely for business -

invading Arabs made sure not to cleanse all Jews from the land so that they could pay the racketeers for protection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those myths you Arab Palestinians cling to.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with the international law.
> 
> You should read up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.  Sweeties, I run circles around you with international law.  (Though Rocco slays it even better than I do.)
> 
> Answer my question.  Can Palestine be divided, yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not without the approval of the Palestinians. The Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181 so the Security Council did not implement the plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretations are clearly incorrect concerning *A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947*.
> 
> ■  Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
> ✪⇒  Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything.  The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.​
> 
> 
> 
> General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PART - I  Section F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> *When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan* has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ■  The claim is that the Security Council did not implement the plan.
> ✪⇒   The implmentation was delegated to UNPC.
> ✪⇒  Implementation by the UNSC was not a requirement.  However, the Resolution afforded the UN Palestine Commission ever latitude and discretion within the limits of the Resolution.​
> 
> 
> 
> Step 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. The Commission shall be *guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council* may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, *shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNPC Adjourns Sine Die • Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the *resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*." This was a *UN Press Release** PAL/169** 17 May 1948* made as a matter of record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The original plan for the establishment of the Jewish State (Part II Section B) was altered by the outcome of the Arab Invasion.
> 
> As you can see, the claims are quite false.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.


You only say this because you believe that somehow Palestinians are exempt from universal inalienable rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do You post here when You know so little?
> 
> Arabs do and did,one of the main reasons for the creation of Israel were the Arab pogroms against their Jewish neighbors.
Click to expand...

They were not attacking their neighbors. They were attacking the settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> 2. The treaties were to conclude the 1948 War of Independence


Independent from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH, don't be foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We were talking about the dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are internationally recognized de facto borders. They are not international borders. Israel does not claim them to be their borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As has been discussed before, the "international" demarcations are:
> 
> •  Article 3 - *International Boundary* The international boundary between *Jordan and Israel* is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)
> 
> •  *Article II*  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the *former mandated territory* of Palestine,​
> You will note that the "treaties" outline the "international boundaries."
> 
> Eventually, the Arab Palestinians, unless they get some political savvy, will eventually an albatross on the Arab League.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, nobody explained how Israel can claim a Palestinian border without a treaty with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 1.  Israel did not claim a border with the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem, or the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 2.  The treaties were to conclude the 1948 War of Independence and to drawn an end to hostilities between the Arab Countries.
> 
> 3.   All the Middle Eastern Arab Countries understood that the Arab Palestinians did not have any form of sovereignty to start with.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, now can you address my post?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall the Palestinians ever choosing to be attacked by Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The presence of Jews in their own homeland is not an "attack".  Gazans have every choice right now, in this moment.  They choose to continue to attempt to provoke Israel with acts of violence.  They have other choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians are attacked in their own villages and neighborhoods. They do not go attack Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do You post here when You know so little?
> 
> Arabs do and did,one of the main reasons for the creation of Israel were the Arab pogroms against their Jewish neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not attacking their neighbors. They were attacking the settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Arabs-Moslems _were_ the settler colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those myths you Arab Palestinians cling to.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are only confused because you are unfamiliar with the international law.
> 
> You should read up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.  Sweeties, I run circles around you with international law.  (Though Rocco slays it even better than I do.)
> 
> Answer my question.  Can Palestine be divided, yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not without the approval of the Palestinians. The Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181 so the Security Council did not implement the plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your interpretations are clearly incorrect concerning *A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947*.
> 
> ■  Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
> ✪⇒  Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything.  The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.​
> 
> 
> 
> General Assembly Resolution 181(II) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PART - I  Section F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
> *When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan* has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ■  The claim is that the Security Council did not implement the plan.
> ✪⇒   The implmentation was delegated to UNPC.
> ✪⇒  Implementation by the UNSC was not a requirement.  However, the Resolution afforded the UN Palestine Commission ever latitude and discretion within the limits of the Resolution.​
> 
> 
> 
> Step 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. The Commission shall be *guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council* may consider necessary to issue.
> 
> The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, *shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNPC Adjourns Sine Die • Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the *resolution of last November 29 has been implemented*." This was a *UN Press Release** PAL/169** 17 May 1948* made as a matter of record.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The original plan for the establishment of the Jewish State (Part II Section B) was altered by the outcome of the Arab Invasion.
> 
> As you can see, the claims are quite false.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You only say this because you believe that somehow Palestinians are exempt from universal inalienable rights.
Click to expand...


You only say that because Arabs-Moslems reject the universal inalienable rights of others. Islamism is a supremacist ideology.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs chose to help Britain invade,
> Ceded the land to an Arabian king
> Declared war on all Jews.
> 
> All their choices.
> What they have is what they deserve.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs chose to help Britain invade,
> Ceded the land to an Arabian king
> Declared war on all Jews.
> 
> All their choices.
> What they have is what they deserve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## Shusha

This article reflects one of the comments I made to P F Tinmore yesterday concerning Palestinian choice.  It correctly places the future of Palestine in the hands of Palestinians and reminds us that Israel can not force Palestinians to act to accept either land or peace.  Thus, there is no dilemma for Israel.  Its out of our hands.

The Over-Dramatization of Israel's Dilemma

_Israel is not facing a dilemma about how much, if any,  land to give up from the West Bank, because the Palestinians will not agree to take land and cannot be forced to do so. The Palestinian community sees peace with Israel as defeat in their 100-year struggle. Continued Israeli occupation is one of the Palestinians’ best weapons against Israel, and they will not give it up while their war to eliminate Israel continues. Israelis should recognize that since the Palestinians are forcing Israel to continue the temporary but long-term occupation, Israelis need to a) cooperate in reducing the moral and other costs of that occupation; and b) stop telling the world that Israel could choose to end the occupation.

We are not facing a dilemma about giving up territory. We are facing a distasteful task, and a need for patience over a period of decades.

Israel does not now have a choice about giving the Palestinians land or creating a Palestinian state; Israel is therefore not facing a dilemma.

While there are undoubtedly peace-seeking Palestinians, as a community, the Palestinians have not even begun to discuss the possibility of making a peace that accepts Israel and ends the Palestinian effort to gain all the land “from the river to the sea.” Nor have they begun public discussion of the possibility of most of the “refugees” settling outside Israel. Without debate among Palestinians, there is no way they can give up their determination to destroy Israel and make a genuine peace._


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today​※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have to be a bit careful here.

•  *Post 2459* directly quotes the Part, Section, and Paragraph of the passage from the Recommendation.​This is just one of those Myths that the Arab Palestinians believe because they have difficulty reading the passage.  While I post documentation that dispells your theory, you return with the suggestion that I oppose "rights" which cannot be bought, sold, or transferred from one individual to another _(inalienable)_.  As if the acceptance or rejection in the participation in the Steps Preparatory to Independence has something to do with some sort of "right."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" or "reject" the process.
> 
> 
> 
> You only say this because you believe that somehow Palestinians are exempt from universal inalienable rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

On the second point, I do not hold any such belief that the Hostile Arab Palestinian have been withheld any particular inalienable rights. 

As you know, the "inalienable rights" that the Arab Palestinians go on and on about, are about some "freedom" the Arab Palestinians that allow them to do something.  This is articulated in the *Resolution 217 A (III) Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)*, in the Preamble.  BUT the concept of "inalienable rights" refers to the fact that it IS NOT a requirement of these rights, that other people must provide them, toil or sacrifice to render something tangible.

_Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional _
_or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, *whether *_
_*it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty*._​
_•  Negative Rights requires that no man can be forced to do anything he doesn't want.
•  Positive Rights do not require others to provide for some benefit of the others._​


			
				J.P. Moreland said:
			
		

> A negative right is a right for me to be protected from harm if I try to get something for myself. A positive right would be my right to have something provided for me.
> 
> If health care is a negative right, then the state has an obligation to keep people from preventing me from getting health care and discriminating against me. If health care’s a positive right, then the state has an obligation to provide it for me.
> 
> *SOURCE:* • Home / Politics / The Difference Between Negative Rights and Positive Rights •



When the UDHR speaks of rebellion against tyranny and oppression, it is NOT speaking about opposing the Israelis.

•  Israel does not challenge the Right of the Arab Palestinian to life, liberty and security of person; as long as the Israelis are allowed the same.

•  The Israelis do not hold Arab Palestinians in bondage, slavery or servitude.

•  In Israel, are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law.

•  No one is subject to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

•  etc, etc, etc,​
While Israel has had more UN condemnations in the last half-century, than any other country in the world, when it comes time to actually evaluate the human development benchmarks, Israel is consistently well above that of any Arab League Member Nation; not marginally, but by a considerable level.

Humanity (especially Israel) does not hold any obligation to the Arab Palestinians for a single thing; no matter what they think they are owed.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today​※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have to be a bit careful here.
> 
> •  *Post 2459* directly quotes the Part, Section, and Paragraph of the passage from the Recommendation.​This is just one of those Myths that the Arab Palestinians believe because they have difficulty reading the passage.  While I post documentation that dispells your theory, you return with the suggestion that I oppose "rights" which cannot be bought, sold, or transferred from one individual to another _(inalienable)_.  As if the acceptance or rejection in the participation in the Steps Preparatory to Independence has something to do with some sort of "right."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" or "reject" the process.
> 
> 
> 
> You only say this because you believe that somehow Palestinians are exempt from universal inalienable rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On the second point, I do not hold any such belief that the Hostile Arab Palestinian have been withheld any particular inalienable rights.
> 
> As you know, the "inalienable rights" that the Arab Palestinians go on and on about, are about some "freedom" the Arab Palestinians that allow them to do something.  This is articulated in the *Resolution 217 A (III) Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)*, in the Preamble.  BUT the concept of "inalienable rights" refers to the fact that it IS NOT a requirement of these rights, that other people must provide them, toil or sacrifice to render something tangible.
> 
> _Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional _
> _or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, *whether *_
> _*it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty*._​
> _•  Negative Rights requires that no man can be forced to do anything he doesn't want.
> •  Positive Rights do not require others to provide for some benefit of the others._​
> 
> 
> 
> J.P. Moreland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A negative right is a right for me to be protected from harm if I try to get something for myself. A positive right would be my right to have something provided for me.
> 
> If health care is a negative right, then the state has an obligation to keep people from preventing me from getting health care and discriminating against me. If health care’s a positive right, then the state has an obligation to provide it for me.
> 
> *SOURCE:* • Home / Politics / The Difference Between Negative Rights and Positive Rights •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the UDHR speaks of rebellion against tyranny and oppression, it is NOT speaking about opposing the Israelis.
> 
> •  Israel does not challenge the Right of the Arab Palestinian to life, liberty and security of person; as long as the Israelis are allowed the same.
> 
> •  The Israelis do not hold Arab Palestinians in bondage, slavery or servitude.
> 
> •  In Israel, are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law.
> 
> •  No one is subject to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
> 
> •  etc, etc, etc,​
> While Israel has had more UN condemnations in the last half-century, than any other country in the world, when it comes time to actually evaluate the human development benchmarks, Israel is consistently well above that of any Arab League Member Nation; not marginally, but by a considerable level.
> 
> Humanity (especially Israel) does not hold any obligation to the Arab Palestinians for a single thing; no matter what they think they are owed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians do not expect Israel to "provide" anything.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today​※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have to be a bit careful here.
> 
> •  *Post 2459* directly quotes the Part, Section, and Paragraph of the passage from the Recommendation.​This is just one of those Myths that the Arab Palestinians believe because they have difficulty reading the passage.  While I post documentation that dispells your theory, you return with the suggestion that I oppose "rights" which cannot be bought, sold, or transferred from one individual to another _(inalienable)_.  As if the acceptance or rejection in the participation in the Steps Preparatory to Independence has something to do with some sort of "right."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" or "reject" the process.
> 
> 
> 
> You only say this because you believe that somehow Palestinians are exempt from universal inalienable rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On the second point, I do not hold any such belief that the Hostile Arab Palestinian have been withheld any particular inalienable rights.
> 
> As you know, the "inalienable rights" that the Arab Palestinians go on and on about, are about some "freedom" the Arab Palestinians that allow them to do something.  This is articulated in the *Resolution 217 A (III) Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)*, in the Preamble.  BUT the concept of "inalienable rights" refers to the fact that it IS NOT a requirement of these rights, that other people must provide them, toil or sacrifice to render something tangible.
> 
> _Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional _
> _or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, *whether *_
> _*it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty*._​
> _•  Negative Rights requires that no man can be forced to do anything he doesn't want.
> •  Positive Rights do not require others to provide for some benefit of the others._​
> 
> 
> 
> J.P. Moreland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A negative right is a right for me to be protected from harm if I try to get something for myself. A positive right would be my right to have something provided for me.
> 
> If health care is a negative right, then the state has an obligation to keep people from preventing me from getting health care and discriminating against me. If health care’s a positive right, then the state has an obligation to provide it for me.
> 
> *SOURCE:* • Home / Politics / The Difference Between Negative Rights and Positive Rights •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the UDHR speaks of rebellion against tyranny and oppression, it is NOT speaking about opposing the Israelis.
> 
> •  Israel does not challenge the Right of the Arab Palestinian to life, liberty and security of person; as long as the Israelis are allowed the same.
> 
> •  The Israelis do not hold Arab Palestinians in bondage, slavery or servitude.
> 
> •  In Israel, are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law.
> 
> •  No one is subject to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
> 
> •  etc, etc, etc,​
> While Israel has had more UN condemnations in the last half-century, than any other country in the world, when it comes time to actually evaluate the human development benchmarks, Israel is consistently well above that of any Arab League Member Nation; not marginally, but by a considerable level.
> 
> Humanity (especially Israel) does not hold any obligation to the Arab Palestinians for a single thing; no matter what they think they are owed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not expect Israel to "provide" anything.
Click to expand...


I wasn’t aware you were promoted to _Head Propagandist in Charge of What Arab-Moslems Expect._


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ■ Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.


There you go again believing that the Palestinians have no rights.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ■ Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" of "reject" the process.
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again believing that the Palestinians have no rights.
Click to expand...


Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/in-israel/local/3-armed-palestinians-cross-israeli-gaza-border-35217*

*Infiltration from Gaza: Terrorists armed with grenades, knives arrested near IDF base*
Three Palestinian terrorists from Gaza who were apprehended by the IDF near a military base in southern Israel on Tuesday are currently being questioned by Israel Police. The terrorists entered Israeli territory carrying grenades and knives.
Mar 27, 2018, 3:00PM









Gee-had denied.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al

You are absolutely correct.  

So why, are the Arab Palestinians pursuing a combative path?  Why do the Arab Palestinians want to deny the equal rights and self-determination of Israeli people?  Relative to the 1848 War of Independence, the Peace Treaties with Jordan and Egypt covered the issues.  It brought an end to the war and dissolved the Armistice Lines. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians do not expect Israel to "provide" anything.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are not owed anything.
The Arab Palestinians have not been promised anything.
The Arab Palestinians have not worked to achieve anything.
The Arab Palestinians understand that they have not earned anything.

The Arab Palestinians adopted a course of hostility; outside the Customary and International Humanitary Law frameworks..  The Arab Palestinians want to be allowed an unlimited number of attempts through violence: 
without any ramifications or consequence for their action.

No Reparations
No Restitution
No Compensation

No Loss of territory.
The political goals and objective that the Hostile Arab Palestinians could not achieve through applying the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States. 

The Arab Palestinians want to participate in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence; without facing any repercussions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say that at all.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ■ Palestinians did not approve of Resolution 181,
> ✪⇒ Nothing in the recommendation requires the Arab Palestinians to "approve" anything. The Recommendation is such that either party may "accept" or "reject" the process.
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again believing that the Palestinians have no rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have  ---⇒ almost unlimited rights _(in fact I cannot think of one that they do not have)_...




 ​
Having said that; the Arab Palestinians cannot bandy about this claim to a "right" as if the Israelis have to make some way for them.  The Israelis are not beholding or obligated in any way to the continued maintenance of a direct threat to the Regional Peace that the Arab Palestinians represent.  They do not.  If anything, the Israelis are owed compensation for the deaths, damages, and destruction that the Arab Palestinians have rained one the Israeli People.

Remember, that after a half-century → the Arab Palestinian people are still heavily dependent on the dole and donor funding _(billions $$$)_ they have not been able to secure a peace or build a nation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

After 1945, the German people and their leaders eventually accepted responsibility for the Second World War. The German refugee problem—a problem of vast dimensions involving great human suffering—quickly disappeared as German leaders came to see the folly of demanding yet another round of destabilizing border shifts and population transfers in Central Europe. The Germans chose not to cling to their refugee status or to stress their own victimization. Instead, they chose to foster stability and peace in central Europe. The former refugees and their descendants are better off today than they would have been had the Germans chosen to reject the post-1945 status quo in Europe. They are, after all, citizens of one of the most stable and prosperous democracies in the world.

The Palestinians and their leaders after 1949 chose a different path. To this day they refuse to accept responsibility for the war of 1947-49. Abetted by the Arab and Muslim nations and the U.N., they cling to their refugee status and perpetuate it from one generation to the next. While the German refugee population in the past seventy years has gone from 13,000,000 to zero, the Palestinian “registered refugees” have gone from 726,000 to over 5,000,000 (and even more if non-registered “refugees” are included[84]), with continued exponential growth guaranteed for years to come. 

Palestinian leaders refuse to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state, and they continue to insist on the “right of return,” even though this would mean flooding Israel with up to five or six million Arab immigrants, thus reducing the Jews to a minority in an Arab and Muslim majority land, something no Israeli government could ever accept.[85] The war of 1947-49 has never really ended, but continues to grind on, with various Palestinian factions sharing the same ultimate goal of dismantling the Jewish state of Israel while differing only on the choice of tactics (warfare, terrorism, diplomatic isolation, boycotts, divestment, sanctions, international legal attacks, propaganda, etc.).

While German leaders after 1945 chose peace over continued conflict, Palestinian leaders continue to choose endless conflict over peaceful compromise. Those who blame only the Israelis for the absence of peace seem to forget that the Palestinians are agents who make choices over which Israelis have no control. Western journalists and politicians ought to pay more attention to those choices.

The Palestinian 'Refugee' Problem and the Missing Peace


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> You are absolutely correct.
> 
> So why, are the Arab Palestinians pursuing a combative path?  Why do the Arab Palestinians want to deny the equal rights and self-determination of Israeli people?  Relative to the 1848 War of Independence, the Peace Treaties with Jordan and Egypt covered the issues.  It brought an end to the war and dissolved the Armistice Lines.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not expect Israel to "provide" anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are not owed anything.
> The Arab Palestinians have not been promised anything.
> The Arab Palestinians have not worked to achieve anything.
> The Arab Palestinians understand that they have not earned anything.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians adopted a course of hostility; outside the Customary and International Humanitary Law frameworks..  The Arab Palestinians want to be allowed an unlimited number of attempts through violence:
> without any ramifications or consequence for their action.
> 
> No Reparations
> No Restitution
> No Compensation
> 
> No Loss of territory.
> The political goals and objective that the Hostile Arab Palestinians could not achieve through applying the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians want to participate in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadism, Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence; without facing any repercussions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Your usual slime the Palestinians post.

The Palestinians have no rights, blah, blah, blah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*One woman tackles two of Gaza's toughest challenges*

Two of the Gaza Strip’s most pressing challenges are a blockade-induced shortage of both electricity and building materials. And, in this conservative, patriarchal society, it’s a young, female engineer who is tackling both.





Twenty-four-year-old Majd al-Mashharawi, a 2016 graduate in civil engineering, first figured out how to turn ash and rubble—of which Gaza has a lot—into a material she calls “Green Cake” that can replace cement. Now, she is turning her attention to renewable energy technologies, starting with a solar kit named SunBox. Now in the piloting phase, SunBox is, she says, the first off-the-grid solar kit in Gaza.

One woman tackles two of Gaza's toughest challenges


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al

No, I think you failed to grasp what has been said.



P F Tinmore said:


> Your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> The Palestinians have no rights, blah, blah, blah.


*(COMMENT)*

The Posting *#2482* said nothing that could be construed with the denial of Arab Palestinian Rights.  In fact, I don't think the word was even usein the comment.

The Arab Palestinian, if they ever get it together, has the right to maintain the sovereign integrity of their territory.  BUT, this right does not compel or obligate the powers-that-be to provide this sovereign territory.

That would be like saying, you have the right to own, and operate a car.  But having that right, does not compel anyone to actually give you a car.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> No, I think you failed to grasp what has been said.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> The Palestinians have no rights, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Posting *#2482* said nothing that could be construed with the denial of Arab Palestinian Rights.  In fact, I don't think the word was even usein the comment.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian, if they ever get it together, has the right to maintain the sovereign integrity of their territory.  BUT, this right does not compel or obligate the powers-that-be to provide this sovereign territory.
> 
> That would be like saying, you have the right to own, and operate a car.  But having that right, does not compel anyone to actually give you a car.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinian, if they ever get it together, has the right to maintain the sovereign integrity of their territory.


Like that inside their international borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> No, I think you failed to grasp what has been said.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual slime the Palestinians post.
> 
> The Palestinians have no rights, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Posting *#2482* said nothing that could be construed with the denial of Arab Palestinian Rights.  In fact, I don't think the word was even usein the comment.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian, if they ever get it together, has the right to maintain the sovereign integrity of their territory.  BUT, this right does not compel or obligate the powers-that-be to provide this sovereign territory.
> 
> That would be like saying, you have the right to own, and operate a car.  But having that right, does not compel anyone to actually give you a car.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinian, if they ever get it together, has the right to maintain the sovereign integrity of their territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that inside their international borders.
Click to expand...


You mean your invented “country of Pal’istan” created by the Treaty of Lausanne, right?


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems want to seek protection? That’s difficult to do when they’re used as human shields for the more excitable of the ummah’ists. 



*Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror’ March*

Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror' March

The Israeli army argued that Gazan militants were using civilian protesters as cover as they fired at soldiers and tried to lay explosives near the border fence. The protest, which peaked at 30,000 participants on Friday and will run for the next six weeks, is “an organized terrorist operation,” the Israeli army said in a tweet on Saturday.

“What we saw yesterday were attempts to launch rockets, attempts to carry out live attacks, Molotov cocktails, attempts to set fire to the security fence, and a lot of terrorist activity,” the Israel Defense Force said in separate tweets. “Nothing was carried out uncontrolled; everything was accurate and measured, and we know where every bullet landed. We are only interested in terrorists who are trying to disrupt Israeli life; we only act against them.”

The army said at least 10 of the dead were known militants, giving their names, organizations and positions. Hamas said five of them were members of its military wing. The army warned it would increase its response if the violence continues.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems want to seek protection? That’s difficult to do when they’re used as human shields for the more excitable of the ummah’ists.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror’ March*
> 
> Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror' March
> 
> The Israeli army argued that Gazan militants were using civilian protesters as cover as they fired at soldiers and tried to lay explosives near the border fence. The protest, which peaked at 30,000 participants on Friday and will run for the next six weeks, is “an organized terrorist operation,” the Israeli army said in a tweet on Saturday.
> 
> “What we saw yesterday were attempts to launch rockets, attempts to carry out live attacks, Molotov cocktails, attempts to set fire to the security fence, and a lot of terrorist activity,” the Israel Defense Force said in separate tweets. “Nothing was carried out uncontrolled; everything was accurate and measured, and we know where every bullet landed. We are only interested in terrorists who are trying to disrupt Israeli life; we only act against them.”
> 
> The army said at least 10 of the dead were known militants, giving their names, organizations and positions. Hamas said five of them were members of its military wing. The army warned it would increase its response if the violence continues.





Hollie said:


> the Israeli army said


Now *there* is a source you can trust.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems want to seek protection? That’s difficult to do when they’re used as human shields for the more excitable of the ummah’ists.
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror’ March*
> 
> Palestinians Seek Protection as Israel Blasts `Terror' March
> 
> The Israeli army argued that Gazan militants were using civilian protesters as cover as they fired at soldiers and tried to lay explosives near the border fence. The protest, which peaked at 30,000 participants on Friday and will run for the next six weeks, is “an organized terrorist operation,” the Israeli army said in a tweet on Saturday.
> 
> “What we saw yesterday were attempts to launch rockets, attempts to carry out live attacks, Molotov cocktails, attempts to set fire to the security fence, and a lot of terrorist activity,” the Israel Defense Force said in separate tweets. “Nothing was carried out uncontrolled; everything was accurate and measured, and we know where every bullet landed. We are only interested in terrorists who are trying to disrupt Israeli life; we only act against them.”
> 
> The army said at least 10 of the dead were known militants, giving their names, organizations and positions. Hamas said five of them were members of its military wing. The army warned it would increase its response if the violence continues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Israeli army said
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now *there* is a source you can trust.
Click to expand...


It was an opinion and it include commentary on IDF policy toward Islamic terrorists instigating gee-had attacks. Your heroes in Hamas have confirmed the dead Islamic terrorists, BTW. Once again, you’re not paying attention.

However, I see you’re reduced to cutting and pasting silly cartoons as is your typical contribution.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied, chumps.



In pictures: Weapons used by terrorists in Gaza

The IDF spokesperson released on Sunday morning photographs of the weapons used by two terrorists who opened fire on Israeli troops during Friday’s “March of Return” event that Hamas organized. IDF tanks and Israeli jets returned fire and eliminated the terrorists. In addition, an IDF tank targeted three Hamas positions in the Gaza Strip.

A few hours after Hamas announced that five of the Palestinianswho were killed in the border clashes were members of its armed wing, the IDF released a statement regarding the matter. “At least 10 known terrorists with track records of terrorist activity were killed whilst carrying out acts of terror during the violent riots along the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip on Friday March 30, 2018,” the IDF spokesperson wrote on Twitter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ghada Karmi tells Dani Dayan he is a common thief!*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ghada Karmi tells Dani Dayan he is a common thief!*
> 
> **



Is Ghada receiving a paycheck from the same Islamic terrorist syndicate that pays the salaries of Islamic terrorists convicted and imprisoned for crimes against Israelis?


----------



## Hollie

Hamas TV: We Shall Liberate Our Land with Martyrs, Women and Children




Well, yeah.

Women and children are cheap currency in the alternate reality of islamic terrorists.

I guess we can expect another silly fashion parade with Hamas and the other Islamic terrorist franchises marching in their ski masks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ghada Karmi tells Dani Dayan he is a common thief!*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Ghada receiving a paycheck from the same Islamic terrorist syndicate that pays the salaries of Islamic terrorists convicted and imprisoned for crimes against Israelis?
Click to expand...

Ghada Karmi Is a Christian who was exiled from West Jerusalem before the 1948 war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Just a reminder to Israel.

The world is watching.

Help free my daughter


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi Ayyoub*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Salma Karmi Ayyoub*



Perhaps you and Salma would like to lecture us on free speech in those areas controlled by Islam.

Tell us about free speech in Hamas’istan.


----------



## Hollie

*Ynetnews*
March 30 at 1:05pm ·
Two Palestinian terrorists open fire at IDF troops on strip border; army respond with gunfire at terrorists, tank and aircraft fire at Hamas and Islamic Jihad positions; four Palestinians said killed; none harmed on Israeli side.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5211604,00.html


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Salma Karmi Ayyoub*
> 
> **



She can talk all she wants; “ Right of Return” with a rising Palestinian Majority , No Israelis allowed in the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem is not going to happen


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

The Arabs-Moslems are getting quite desperate. They're trotting out the worst of the worst and now reduced to playing the "race" card.

Apparently the endless failures and ineptitudes of Arabs-Moslems is the fault of the evil white people. 
*

Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins “fundamentalist Christians and racist white people" - PMW Bulletins

Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins "fundamentalist Christians and racist white people"*

*Fatah officials: Trump is "fascist, Nazi," "ugly racist," *
*"Gestapo," "ignoramus"*


*Fatah:*

*Trump is "leading a war against the Arab and Islamic nation"*

*"US and Israel are the only enemies"*
*PLO official Hanan Ashrawi on Trump's appointment of John Bolton as national security advisor:*
*"The American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people" *


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Palestinian leaders have turned hate speech against the US and the Trump administration into PA policy. Some recent examples include PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi calling Trump's appointment of John Bolton as US national security advisor a sign of the American administration's "racism" and a sign they've joined the "extremist Zionists" and "the fundamentalist Christians":

"With his [Bolton's] appointment, the matters have been clarified and the picture has been completed - the American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people." 
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 24, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Arabs-Moslems are getting quite desperate. They're trotting out the worst of the worst and now reduced to playing the "race" card.
> 
> Apparently the endless failures and ineptitudes of Arabs-Moslems is the fault of the evil white people.
> *
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins “fundamentalist Christians and racist white people" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins "fundamentalist Christians and racist white people"*
> 
> *Fatah officials: Trump is "fascist, Nazi," "ugly racist,"
> "Gestapo," "ignoramus"*
> 
> 
> *Fatah:*
> 
> *Trump is "leading a war against the Arab and Islamic nation"*
> 
> *"US and Israel are the only enemies"*
> *PLO official Hanan Ashrawi on Trump's appointment of John Bolton as national security advisor:
> "The American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people" *
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Palestinian leaders have turned hate speech against the US and the Trump administration into PA policy. Some recent examples include PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi calling Trump's appointment of John Bolton as US national security advisor a sign of the American administration's "racism" and a sign they've joined the "extremist Zionists" and "the fundamentalist Christians":
> 
> "With his [Bolton's] appointment, the matters have been clarified and the picture has been completed - the American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 24, 2018


Trump said he was going to drain the swamp then he scrapes the bottom of the barrel for his administration.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs-Moslems are getting quite desperate. They're trotting out the worst of the worst and now reduced to playing the "race" card.
> 
> Apparently the endless failures and ineptitudes of Arabs-Moslems is the fault of the evil white people.
> *
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins “fundamentalist Christians and racist white people" - PMW Bulletins
> 
> Hanan Ashrawi: US Administration joins "fundamentalist Christians and racist white people"*
> 
> *Fatah officials: Trump is "fascist, Nazi," "ugly racist,"
> "Gestapo," "ignoramus"*
> 
> 
> *Fatah:*
> 
> *Trump is "leading a war against the Arab and Islamic nation"*
> 
> *"US and Israel are the only enemies"*
> *PLO official Hanan Ashrawi on Trump's appointment of John Bolton as national security advisor:
> "The American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people" *
> 
> 
> By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Palestinian leaders have turned hate speech against the US and the Trump administration into PA policy. Some recent examples include PLO Executive Committee member Hanan Ashrawi calling Trump's appointment of John Bolton as US national security advisor a sign of the American administration's "racism" and a sign they've joined the "extremist Zionists" and "the fundamentalist Christians":
> 
> "With his [Bolton's] appointment, the matters have been clarified and the picture has been completed - the American administration has joined the extremist Zionists, the fundamentalist Christians, and the racist white people."
> [Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 24, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> Trump said he was going to drain the swamp then he scrapes the bottom of the barrel for his administration.
Click to expand...


Nothing to do with the thread topic, chuckles. What's preventing you from leaving the Great Satan and returning to your islamic paradise?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Sigh.  Another foolish video, full of half truths and outright lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Exclusive: Interrogation Video Surfaces of Palestinian Teen Activist Ahed Tamimi*

*Exclusive: Interrogation Video Surfaces of Palestinian Teen Activist Ahed Tamimi*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Exclusive: Interrogation Video Surfaces of Palestinian Teen Activist Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> *Exclusive: Interrogation Video Surfaces of Palestinian Teen Activist Ahed Tamimi*



You realize that Allah has played a cruel joke on you, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani, "Why Does Your Organization Participate in the Stop Urban Shield Coalition?"*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah: Israeli versus Russian Media Influence.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reem El Banna Singing at St. Catherine Church in Bethlehem*

**


----------



## Hollie

Murderers of Israelis are "sacrificing heroes and torches of freedom that have lit the skies of Palestine," says PLO official - PMW Bulletins
PMW Research Center

Murderers of Israelis are "sacrificing heroes and torches of freedom that have lit the skies of Palestine," says PLO official
by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik 
Apr. 3, 2018 

*
Mother of 5 terrorist sons, among them 2 murderers,*
*raised "sacrificing heroes and torches of freedom*
*that have lit the skies of Palestine"*

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Reporting on an event honoring Palestinian mothers "of Martyrs, prisoners, and wounded," the official Palestinian Authority daily mentioned in particular the mother of 5 terrorists, among them 2 murderers. Although the paper listed the number of life sentences each is serving, it failed to mention that they are imprisoned for murder of 8 people as well as numerous other terror attacks (see descriptions below):

"Um Yusuf is the mother of Martyr Abd Al-Mun'im, and the mother of four prisoners serving life sentences: Nasser, serving 7 life sentences and an additional 50 years; Nasr, serving 5 life sentences; Sharif, serving 4 life sentences; and Muhammad, serving 2 life sentences and an additional 30 years."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, March 23, 2018]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



That's even more pointless and irrelevant than your typical cutting and pasting of YouTube videos.


----------



## Hollie

NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service

Abstract:   For the purposes of this study, "political terrorism" is defined as "the systematic use of violence by individuals or a group in the pursuit of political aims, with the violence directed at a wider target population than that of the immediate victims." "International terrorism" is terrorism "involving, in some way, more than one State." The study covers the ideological sources of Palestinian international terrorist activities, strategic and tactical considerations, and the debates within the Palestinian movement regarding international terrorism. The study concludes that the post-1974 period saw a significant rise in the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO's) international standing and a similar strengthening of its claim to be the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. The groundwork for this gain was laid by the terrorist activities of the 1968-73 period; the superstructure was a direct result of the decision to refrain from those same activities. International Palestinian terrorism will continue in the near future, largely because it is an instrument in the hands of certain states for the furtherance of their own strategic interests, thereby assuring the Palestinians unlimited resources


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Thank you for that. It is a rather stark reminder of the destruction and ransacking that happens to symbols of culture and heritage in those areas conquered by Islam.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Students for Justice in Palestine / Arab Student Union - Taste of OSU 2017*

**


----------



## Hollie

Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate

*Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Be a Lever to Move Palestine Toward Justice*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia El Nakla at Justice for Palestine Festival 2012 Dundee Scotland*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*United Nations day for Solidarity with Palestine 2015*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Orthodox Christians during Palm Sunday procession in Saint Porphyrius Church, Gaza City - Gaza on April 01, 2018.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Holy Land Foundation Five are Palestinian political prisoners sentenced up to upwards of 65 years in US prison for providing aid to refugees. Although no proof exists for the organization providing support for terrorism, it was targeted in the Bush administration's post-9/11 dragnet, setting an alarming precedent for activists in the US. Abby Martin sits down with an expert on the case, Miko Peled, to learn more about this little-known case.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Holy Land Foundation Five are Palestinian political prisoners sentenced up to upwards of 65 years in US prison for providing aid to refugees. Although no proof exists for the organization providing support for terrorism, it was targeted in the Bush administration's post-9/11 dragnet, setting an alarming precedent for activists in the US. Abby Martin sits down with an expert on the case, Miko Peled, to learn more about this little-known case.



Infidel justice rules, Habib.


----------



## Hollie

Students for Justice in Palestine, unmasked

Studies by Brandeis University and the AMCHA initiative have revealed a direct correlation between BDS activities and a marked rise in antisemitic acts on campuses with large Jewish populations.

What do Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas and the Palestinian Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) have in common? These terrorist groups have all been lionized and glorified by Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), the campus arm of the global boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Thanks, I needed my morning laugh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi & Janna JihadCalls Canada and the rest of the world to Action for Palestine-Brandon Badiuk


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ahed Tamimi & Janna JihadCalls Canada and the rest of the world to Action for Palestine-Brandon Badiuk



Not surprising, you're exploiting naive, teenage girls, pushing them to do the gee-had you won't.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I needed my morning laugh.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I knew that would infuriate you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I needed my morning laugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks. I knew that would infuriate you.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, Has been trying to be relevant.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

On Many Campuses, Hate is Spelled SJP

They advocate for Israel’s destruction, admire terrorists, and are making Jewish students feel unsafe on campuses across the country. They’re Students for Justice in Palestine—and they’re a huge problem.

Instead of promoting justice, SJP and/or its members spend almost all of their energy demonizing Israel, advocating for its eventual destruction, showing an unfortunate affinity for pro-terrorist figures, bullying and intimidating pro-Israel and Jewish students with vicious and sometimes anti-Semitic rhetoric, and even at times engaging in physical violence. While SJP may pay lip-service to peaceful aims, their rhetoric and actions make it hard to avoid the conclusion that a culture of hatred permeates nearly everything the group does—making the college experience increasingly uncomfortable, at times even dangerous, for Jewish or pro-Israel students. Perhaps equally disturbing is the limited response from university authorities that have an obligation to prevent such attacks and protect Jewish students.


----------



## Hollie

Yep. Just what you expect from a syndicate of Islamic terrorist wannabes.


NYC Students for Justice in Palestine Caught Expressing Public Support for Hamas & Terrorism

*NYC Students for Justice in Palestine Caught Expressing Public Support for Hamas & Terrorism*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Special Report - Inside Palestine: Life in a Palestinian village*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli soldiers put back in their place by Palestinian women in Nabi Saleh. .*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What happened in Nabi Saleh? The day Mustafa Tamimi was killed and following demonstrations*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Future - 2017 Arab-U.S. Policymakers Conference*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shadia Mansour on creative freedom in Britain*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*THE INTIFADA|| T.U.T (Full Mixtape) Artwork by Malak Mattar*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *THE INTIFADA|| T.U.T (Full Mixtape) Artwork by Malak Mattar*



Many may not know this but _intifada_ is derived from the ancient Latin term “hopelessly inadequate Arabs-Moslems”.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist fashion show, anyone?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Malaka Mohammed, a blogger from Gaza*

**


----------



## Hollie

Threats from goofy Islamic terrorists in ski masks. Now that’s funny.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE INTIFADA|| T.U.T (Full Mixtape) Artwork by Malak Mattar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many may not know this but _intifada_ is derived from the ancient Latin term “hopelessly inadequate Arabs-Moslems”.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

MORE Palestinian riot “victims” are identified as terrorists – now 16 out of 19

*MORE Palestinian riot “victims” are identified as terrorists – now 16 out of 19*
Apr 5, 2018 | News









Sorry, freaks. No virgins.


----------



## Hollie

Intifada = dead Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult family values.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh at Stop the War Machine Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists doing what they do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists doing what they do.


Foreign troops attacking civilians in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists doing what they do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign troops attacking civilians in Palestine.
Click to expand...


I guessed you missed it but the facts are that islamic terrorists have been approaching the Israeli border with the express intention of provoking a confrontation. 

Try paying attention.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.



Ya’ Allah. More of your juvenile name-calling and more of your Pom Pom flailing for another of the angry, retrograde Tamimi tribe starring in a staged “confrontation”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah. More of your juvenile name-calling and more of your Pom Pom flailing for another of the angry, retrograde Tamimi tribe starring in a staged “confrontation”.
Click to expand...

So, how do they get the IDF to participate in these staged events?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Youths Welcoming Israeli Occupiers after they invaded Nabi Saleh Village.*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah. More of your juvenile name-calling and more of your Pom Pom flailing for another of the angry, retrograde Tamimi tribe starring in a staged “confrontation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, how do they get the IDF to participate in these staged events?
Click to expand...


Staged for the camera. There’s a long history of that. Are you pleading ignorance regarding Pallywood Productions?


----------



## Hollie

Diary of an Arab-Moslem Death Cultist


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah. More of your juvenile name-calling and more of your Pom Pom flailing for another of the angry, retrograde Tamimi tribe starring in a staged “confrontation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, how do they get the IDF to participate in these staged events?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Staged for the camera. There’s a long history of that. Are you pleading ignorance regarding Pallywood Productions?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Pallywood Productions


Ha, the Palestinians faking videos to make Israel look bad is like pissing in the ocean to make it salty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians, again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya’ Allah. More of your juvenile name-calling and more of your Pom Pom flailing for another of the angry, retrograde Tamimi tribe starring in a staged “confrontation”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, how do they get the IDF to participate in these staged events?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Staged for the camera. There’s a long history of that. Are you pleading ignorance regarding Pallywood Productions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood Productions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha, the Palestinians faking videos to make Israel look bad is like pissing in the ocean to make it salty.
Click to expand...


Your usual inability to articulate a coherent thought. 

Pallywood Productions has become synonymous with ridicule and derision as Arabs-Moslems make themselves complete buffoons with their  laughable incompetence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Farah Nabulsi*



Injustice?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Karma Nabulsi
'A Real Education: Learning from Anti-Colonial Struggles'

*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Karma Nabulsi
> 'A Real Education: Learning from Anti-Colonial Struggles'
> 
> *



It’s good that the speaker was honest about Islamist colonialism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mitri Raheb: The Church, The Empire, The Kingdom*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> How else do You define a suicidal inclination at continuing the conflict on the account of Your own people, for mere existence of the conflict??
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have no choice in the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs chose to help Britain invade,
> Ceded the land to an Arabian king
> Declared war on all Jews.
> 
> All their choices.
> What they have is what they deserve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF are you talking about?
Click to expand...


About King Faisal, 
and the Arab declaration of 1919.
Muftis' call to open war against Jews and organization in different countries.


You know well, just want to evade the inconvenient evident.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Cybec Electric 2018 | Meet Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Meet the Islamic terrorists.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Cybec Electric 2018 | Meet Samah Sabawi*
> 
> **



The answer to all her questions in 99% of the cases is their own corrupt governments.
Be it Baath in Syria, Hamas in Gaza, PLO in Ramallah or Revolution forces in Iran.

Did You hear about many Saudi or Qatari refugees in Europe, maybe from the UAE?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. Why should Israel take responsibility for a war that the Arabs, according to every category they use, themselves started?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Why should Israel take responsibility for a war that the Arabs, according to every category they use, themselves started?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the whole thing started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Larissa Sansour, creating a Palestinian state with science fiction.*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Why should Israel take responsibility for a war that the Arabs, according to every category they use, themselves started?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the whole thing started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?
Click to expand...

That's what You say to keep promoting Jihad,
although they did attack Zionists in Europe, but it started before Zionism. 

It started with Arab Muslim colonization of the land,
 but more recently with a wave of Arab Pogroms that drew international attention to the Jewish plight
in Syria-Palestine.

Damascus affair - Wikipedia
The incident and its repercussions were considerable. According to Hasia R. Diner, in _The Jews of the United States, 1654 to 2000_, "For the Jews, the Damascus affair launched modern Jewish politics on an international scale, and for American Jews it represented their first effort at creating a distinctive political agenda. Just as the United States had used this affair to proclaim its presence on the global scale, so too did American Jews, in their newspapers and at mass meetings, announce to their coreligionists in France and England that they too ought to be thought of players in global Jewish diplomacy."[8]

According to Johannes Valentin Schwarz, the events also encouraged the growth of the modern Jewish press. "As a result, a sense of solidarity was evoked among the Jewish communities of Europe they had never experienced before. Thus, the Damascus Affair gave birth to modern Jewish press especially in Western Europe, such as to the long-lived papers _Les Archives Israélites de France_ (1840-1935) in Paris or _The Jewish Chronicle_ (1841 ff.) in London."[9]


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Why should Israel take responsibility for a war that the Arabs, according to every category they use, themselves started?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the whole thing started when the Palestinians went to Europe and attacked the Zionists?
Click to expand...


The whole thing started when the Arabians spilled out of the peninsula.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Larissa Sansour, creating a Palestinian state with science fiction.*
> 
> **



Create a “Pal’Istanian State”? 

Odd. You keep insisting that such a place was created by the Treaty of Lausanne. 

Shirley, you have a YouTube video?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Larissa Sansour, creating a Palestinian state with science fiction.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Create a “Pal’Istanian State”?
> 
> Odd. You keep insisting that such a place was created by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Shirley, you have a YouTube video?
Click to expand...


"creating Palestine with science fiction"...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


If Abbas is against it, it must be working.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Abbas is against it, it must be working.
Click to expand...


Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah*



"2 million people living in inhuman conditions unparalelled in the modern world".

Hogwash.

1.  What conditions?  According to the video:  lack of electricity, lack of clean water, lack of sewage treatment, lack of medical care

There are 1.3 billion people in the world with no access to electricity.
There are 1.1 billion people in the world without regular access to clean water.
There are 2.6 billion people in the world with no access to sanitation facilities.
200 million children worldwide have no access to any medical care.
10 million children a year die of common illnesses easily prevented, managed, cured with access to the most basic care.
276 million people are chronically under-nourished (this does not include those who are food insecure).

Don't go telling me that these "inhuman" conditions are unparalelled.  There are literally BILLIONS of people in the world FAR worse off than the Gaza people.

2.  Are resources available and adequate?  Yes.  

Gazans have access to what should be a sustainable (if managed) aquifer.  It has water agreements with Israel.  
It receives electricity from both Israel and Egypt.  
It has received billions of dollars from worldwide sources.
It receives 1000 truckloads of essential supplies and materials a DAY from Israel.

3.  Are resources distributed appropriately to end these "inhumane" conditions?  No.

Hamas spent $15 million on this entirely pointless temper tantrum at the border.  
Hamas spent between $30 and 90 million constructing tunnels.  

The problem is not a lack of resources -- but a lack of will on the part of the government of Gaza to use those resources for the benefit of its people and on the lack of will of the Gazans themselves for not ousting the government in order to get their needs met.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "2 million people living in inhuman conditions unparalelled in the modern world".
> 
> Hogwash.
> 
> 1.  What conditions?  According to the video:  lack of electricity, lack of clean water, lack of sewage treatment, lack of medical care
> 
> There are 1.3 billion people in the world with no access to electricity.
> There are 1.1 billion people in the world without regular access to clean water.
> There are 2.6 billion people in the world with no access to sanitation facilities.
> 200 million children worldwide have no access to any medical care.
> 10 million children a year die of common illnesses easily prevented, managed, cured with access to the most basic care.
> 276 million people are chronically under-nourished (this does not include those who are food insecure).
> 
> Don't go telling me that these "inhuman" conditions are unparalelled.  There are literally BILLIONS of people in the world FAR worse off than the Gaza people.
> 
> 2.  Are resources available and adequate?  Yes.
> 
> Gazans have access to what should be a sustainable (if managed) aquifer.  It has water agreements with Israel.
> It receives electricity from both Israel and Egypt.
> It has received billions of dollars from worldwide sources.
> It receives 1000 truckloads of essential supplies and materials a DAY from Israel.
> 
> 3.  Are resources distributed appropriately to end these "inhumane" conditions?  No.
> 
> Hamas spent $15 million on this entirely pointless temper tantrum at the border.
> Hamas spent between $30 and 90 million constructing tunnels.
> 
> The problem is not a lack of resources -- but a lack of will on the part of the government of Gaza to use those resources for the benefit of its people and on the lack of will of the Gazans themselves for not ousting the government in order to get their needs met.
Click to expand...


With his OCD-like Jew hatreds, Tinmore mindlessly trolls YouTube for goofy videos to cut and paste. Factual content is not a requirement. 

Very silly for Tinmore to whine about some invented “crisis” in Gaza, amid the luxury shopping malls, presidential palaces for the competing Islamic terrorist franchise, fabulous wealth of the privileged UNRWA welfare thieves and Hamas earning the title of second wealthiest Islamic terrorist syndicate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "2 million people living in inhuman conditions unparalelled in the modern world".
> 
> Hogwash.
> 
> 1.  What conditions?  According to the video:  lack of electricity, lack of clean water, lack of sewage treatment, lack of medical care
> 
> There are 1.3 billion people in the world with no access to electricity.
> There are 1.1 billion people in the world without regular access to clean water.
> There are 2.6 billion people in the world with no access to sanitation facilities.
> 200 million children worldwide have no access to any medical care.
> 10 million children a year die of common illnesses easily prevented, managed, cured with access to the most basic care.
> 276 million people are chronically under-nourished (this does not include those who are food insecure).
> 
> Don't go telling me that these "inhuman" conditions are unparalelled.  There are literally BILLIONS of people in the world FAR worse off than the Gaza people.
> 
> 2.  Are resources available and adequate?  Yes.
> 
> Gazans have access to what should be a sustainable (if managed) aquifer.  It has water agreements with Israel.
> It receives electricity from both Israel and Egypt.
> It has received billions of dollars from worldwide sources.
> It receives 1000 truckloads of essential supplies and materials a DAY from Israel.
> 
> 3.  Are resources distributed appropriately to end these "inhumane" conditions?  No.
> 
> Hamas spent $15 million on this entirely pointless temper tantrum at the border.
> Hamas spent between $30 and 90 million constructing tunnels.
> 
> The problem is not a lack of resources -- but a lack of will on the part of the government of Gaza to use those resources for the benefit of its people and on the lack of will of the Gazans themselves for not ousting the government in order to get their needs met.
Click to expand...

But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?



I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"

The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "2 million people living in inhuman conditions unparalelled in the modern world".
> 
> Hogwash.
> 
> 1.  What conditions?  According to the video:  lack of electricity, lack of clean water, lack of sewage treatment, lack of medical care
> 
> There are 1.3 billion people in the world with no access to electricity.
> There are 1.1 billion people in the world without regular access to clean water.
> There are 2.6 billion people in the world with no access to sanitation facilities.
> 200 million children worldwide have no access to any medical care.
> 10 million children a year die of common illnesses easily prevented, managed, cured with access to the most basic care.
> 276 million people are chronically under-nourished (this does not include those who are food insecure).
> 
> Don't go telling me that these "inhuman" conditions are unparalelled.  There are literally BILLIONS of people in the world FAR worse off than the Gaza people.
> 
> 2.  Are resources available and adequate?  Yes.
> 
> Gazans have access to what should be a sustainable (if managed) aquifer.  It has water agreements with Israel.
> It receives electricity from both Israel and Egypt.
> It has received billions of dollars from worldwide sources.
> It receives 1000 truckloads of essential supplies and materials a DAY from Israel.
> 
> 3.  Are resources distributed appropriately to end these "inhumane" conditions?  No.
> 
> Hamas spent $15 million on this entirely pointless temper tantrum at the border.
> Hamas spent between $30 and 90 million constructing tunnels.
> 
> The problem is not a lack of resources -- but a lack of will on the part of the government of Gaza to use those resources for the benefit of its people and on the lack of will of the Gazans themselves for not ousting the government in order to get their needs met.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
Click to expand...


The “country of Pally’Land”?

That seems to again denote the alternate reality you dwell in.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

^^^^

They're not numbers but they do try  a BIG NUMBER on us all as usual,


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
Click to expand...

You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.

*Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.



Known to normal people as "reality".

Are you denying that Hamas spends money on things other than the improvement of its own citizens "inhuman conditions"?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
Click to expand...



FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Known to normal people as "reality".
> 
> Are you denying that Hamas spends money on things other than the improvement of its own citizens "inhuman conditions"?
Click to expand...

Well, they could order things that Israel will not allow in.

That would help.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
Click to expand...

How are things in your talking point world?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually, they are numbers. The number is $3,000. That’s how much your heroes in Hamas are paying per dead Arab-Moslem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
Click to expand...


Islamist talking points.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
Click to expand...


Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking points.
Click to expand...

Sarah Roy is Jewish.


----------



## Shusha

Sara Roy seems to think that if Gazans got a little more love from Israel in the form of exports that it would solve the conflict.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sarah Roy is Jewish.
Click to expand...


It's all the whining that Arabs-Moslems spew in an attempt to foist their failures and inadequacies on others.

Classic Islamist talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why should a first world country be forced to live like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
Click to expand...

Here is something for you to read.

*The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*

“The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”

In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.

The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure you have cause to call Gaza a "first world country".  Though I suppose it depends on the definition you use.  I _think_ what you mean to say is, "Why should a country with adequate resources force its citizens to live with "inhuman conditions?"
> 
> The answer is simple -- because the governing body of Gaza (Hamas) does not prioritize the conditions of its citizens when it comes to the distribution of available resources.
> 
> 
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
Click to expand...



Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.

If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it. 

If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.


----------



## Hollie

Here is something for you to read.

Collaborators in the War Against the Jews: Sara Roy - by Steven Plaut
*

COLLABORATORS IN THE WAR AGAINST THE JEWS: SARA ROY - BY STEVEN PLAUT
*
Sara Roy, who holds a non-tenured “research” position at Harvard’s Center for Middle East Studies (CMES), claims to be a “political economist,” although she apparently has no training in economics or political science.  She also claims to be an expert in Middle East Studies, but has no degree in that either.  Her PhD is in Education.

Roy claims to be an expert on the political economy of the Gaza Strip, but her real expertise is in anti-Israel leftist political propaganda.  She worked on her doctoral dissertation in education part of the time while living for a while in the Gaza Strip, and got paid as a a research assistant by the West Bank Data Base Project, a propaganda project directed by anti-Israel radical Israeli non-academic leftists.

Roy’s Middle East studies publications are by and large propaganda diatribes, and many appear in non-academic anti-Israel propaganda magazines, some of which appear in openly anti-Semitic web magazines, at least one having intimate ties to the PLO.   Phyllis Chessler calls her one of "the most savage critics—of America and Israel.”  Roy is a prolific writer of newspaper op-eds and spends much of her time giving “expert” lectures about the Arab-Israel conflict.

Sara Roy was born Jewish, and she uses this circumstance as a lever to better support Israel’s enemies. She refers frequently to something she calls a “Jewish ethical perspective” whenever bashing Israel and cites her “Jewish roots” when promoting the Hamas on anti-Semitic web sites such as the Neo-Stalinist _Counterpunch._

Roy is, in fact, arguably the leading apologist for Hamas in American academia today.  She is the inventor of an imaginary “New Hamas,” a fictional group that seeks peace and social wellbeing for Palestinians, unlike the real Hamas, which seeks to carry out a second Holocaust of Jews.  Roy has been described as “the ringmaster of Harvard's bash Israel circus.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You look at everything through Israel colored glasses.
> 
> *Sara Roy – Gaza: Cast Backwards, A Way Forward*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it.
> 
> If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.


Sara Roy (Ph.D. Harvard University) is a senior research scholar at Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies specializing in the Palestinian economy, Palestinian Islamism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Roy began her research in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1985 with a focus on the economic, social and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign assistance to the region. Since then, she has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and on Gaza’s de-development, a concept she originated. Dr. Roy is the author of many books and publications, including, The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development (Institute for Palestine Studies, 1995, 2001, 2016) and Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector (Princeton University Press, 2011, 2014)


----------



## Hollie

The Hamas PR Machine in America – Jewish Policy Center

Boston University professor Augustus Richard Norton and Harvard University Middle Eastern Studies scholar Sara Roy recently co-authored an article for the _Christian Science Monitor_ entitled, “Yes, You Can Work With Hamas,” encouraging Washington to recognize the legitimacy of the terrorist organization. Writer Cinnamon Stillwell notes that Roy, in particular, has “long been invested in forging the idea of a ‘New Hamas’ by attempting to downplay the group’s openly genocidal ambitions and picturing them instead as an enlightened group of do-gooders interested only in social services and education.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> Collaborators in the War Against the Jews: Sara Roy - by Steven Plaut
> *
> 
> COLLABORATORS IN THE WAR AGAINST THE JEWS: SARA ROY - BY STEVEN PLAUT
> *
> Sara Roy, who holds a non-tenured “research” position at Harvard’s Center for Middle East Studies (CMES), claims to be a “political economist,” although she apparently has no training in economics or political science.  She also claims to be an expert in Middle East Studies, but has no degree in that either.  Her PhD is in Education.
> 
> Roy claims to be an expert on the political economy of the Gaza Strip, but her real expertise is in anti-Israel leftist political propaganda.  She worked on her doctoral dissertation in education part of the time while living for a while in the Gaza Strip, and got paid as a a research assistant by the West Bank Data Base Project, a propaganda project directed by anti-Israel radical Israeli non-academic leftists.
> 
> Roy’s Middle East studies publications are by and large propaganda diatribes, and many appear in non-academic anti-Israel propaganda magazines, some of which appear in openly anti-Semitic web magazines, at least one having intimate ties to the PLO.   Phyllis Chessler calls her one of "the most savage critics—of America and Israel.”  Roy is a prolific writer of newspaper op-eds and spends much of her time giving “expert” lectures about the Arab-Israel conflict.
> 
> Sara Roy was born Jewish, and she uses this circumstance as a lever to better support Israel’s enemies. She refers frequently to something she calls a “Jewish ethical perspective” whenever bashing Israel and cites her “Jewish roots” when promoting the Hamas on anti-Semitic web sites such as the Neo-Stalinist _Counterpunch._
> 
> Roy is, in fact, arguably the leading apologist for Hamas in American academia today.  She is the inventor of an imaginary “New Hamas,” a fictional group that seeks peace and social wellbeing for Palestinians, unlike the real Hamas, which seeks to carry out a second Holocaust of Jews.  Roy has been described as “the ringmaster of Harvard's bash Israel circus.”


So you link to an Israeli propaganda rag.

Priceless.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> Collaborators in the War Against the Jews: Sara Roy - by Steven Plaut
> *
> 
> COLLABORATORS IN THE WAR AGAINST THE JEWS: SARA ROY - BY STEVEN PLAUT
> *
> Sara Roy, who holds a non-tenured “research” position at Harvard’s Center for Middle East Studies (CMES), claims to be a “political economist,” although she apparently has no training in economics or political science.  She also claims to be an expert in Middle East Studies, but has no degree in that either.  Her PhD is in Education.
> 
> Roy claims to be an expert on the political economy of the Gaza Strip, but her real expertise is in anti-Israel leftist political propaganda.  She worked on her doctoral dissertation in education part of the time while living for a while in the Gaza Strip, and got paid as a a research assistant by the West Bank Data Base Project, a propaganda project directed by anti-Israel radical Israeli non-academic leftists.
> 
> Roy’s Middle East studies publications are by and large propaganda diatribes, and many appear in non-academic anti-Israel propaganda magazines, some of which appear in openly anti-Semitic web magazines, at least one having intimate ties to the PLO.   Phyllis Chessler calls her one of "the most savage critics—of America and Israel.”  Roy is a prolific writer of newspaper op-eds and spends much of her time giving “expert” lectures about the Arab-Israel conflict.
> 
> Sara Roy was born Jewish, and she uses this circumstance as a lever to better support Israel’s enemies. She refers frequently to something she calls a “Jewish ethical perspective” whenever bashing Israel and cites her “Jewish roots” when promoting the Hamas on anti-Semitic web sites such as the Neo-Stalinist _Counterpunch._
> 
> Roy is, in fact, arguably the leading apologist for Hamas in American academia today.  She is the inventor of an imaginary “New Hamas,” a fictional group that seeks peace and social wellbeing for Palestinians, unlike the real Hamas, which seeks to carry out a second Holocaust of Jews.  Roy has been described as “the ringmaster of Harvard's bash Israel circus.”
> 
> 
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda rag.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


So your tender islamo-sensibilities are offended. I’m devastated. Really, I am. 


So, your link was to a blog authored by a leftist clown. 

Priceless.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> FFS.  Its an hour and a half video.  Just make your point.  (Also no cc.)
> 
> 
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it.
> 
> If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sara Roy (Ph.D. Harvard University) is a senior research scholar at Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies specializing in the Palestinian economy, Palestinian Islamism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Roy began her research in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1985 with a focus on the economic, social and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign assistance to the region. Since then, she has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and on Gaza’s de-development, a concept she originated. Dr. Roy is the author of many books and publications, including, The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development (Institute for Palestine Studies, 1995, 2001, 2016) and Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector (Princeton University Press, 2011, 2014)
Click to expand...


Sara Roy has a degree in Education and none in the fields she is writing in. 

Now. Did you want to try to deny that Hamas spends millions of dollars on things gas not related to the welfare of her citizens?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow are things in your talking point world?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it.
> 
> If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sara Roy (Ph.D. Harvard University) is a senior research scholar at Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies specializing in the Palestinian economy, Palestinian Islamism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Roy began her research in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1985 with a focus on the economic, social and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign assistance to the region. Since then, she has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and on Gaza’s de-development, a concept she originated. Dr. Roy is the author of many books and publications, including, The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development (Institute for Palestine Studies, 1995, 2001, 2016) and Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector (Princeton University Press, 2011, 2014)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sara Roy has a degree in Education and none in the fields she is writing in.
> 
> Now. Did you want to try to deny that Hamas spends millions of dollars on things gas not related to the welfare of her citizens?
Click to expand...

Israel will not allow economic development.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Protest for Gaza: Stop the Killing: Tariq Ali Writer, Activist London*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it.
> 
> If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sara Roy (Ph.D. Harvard University) is a senior research scholar at Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies specializing in the Palestinian economy, Palestinian Islamism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Roy began her research in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1985 with a focus on the economic, social and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign assistance to the region. Since then, she has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and on Gaza’s de-development, a concept she originated. Dr. Roy is the author of many books and publications, including, The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development (Institute for Palestine Studies, 1995, 2001, 2016) and Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector (Princeton University Press, 2011, 2014)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sara Roy has a degree in Education and none in the fields she is writing in.
> 
> Now. Did you want to try to deny that Hamas spends millions of dollars on things gas not related to the welfare of her citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow economic development.
Click to expand...


You are like helpless children, unable and unwilling to take responsibility for your actions and subsequent consequences. 

You has this need to wallow in your ignorance and ineptitude and use those as excuses for failure which is,I suspect, partly a function of politico-religious ideology which is progress loathing and retrograde.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Are you suggesting she is the man you will never be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Shoots 6 Journalists Covering Palestinian Protest*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

It was just a matter of time before you take news junkies trolled that out.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The man you aspire to be.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*http://www.thetower.org/6132-u-s-attacks-hamas-for-sending-children-to-border-knowing-they-may-be-killed/*

*U.S. Attacks Hamas for Sending Children to Border, ‘Knowing They May be Killed’*


Well, let’s not be too harsh toward Hamas. They are, after all, providing cash payments for dead or wounded children. The Hamas leadership can watch Press TV from the safety of their luxury condos while the ignorant masses make a few bucks on their dead or injured kids. 

Ahh, the wonders of ummah’istan.


----------



## Hollie

And then there’s the Tinmore style of resistance: a YouTube cut and paste gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*March 21, 2018 – Phil Weiss on Ahed Tamimi's sentencing and its consequences*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?  So now a hearing impaired person's failing to want to watch an hour and a half video with no CC (aka unintelligible) is an Israeli talking point?!  wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is something for you to read.
> 
> *The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy*
> 
> “The De-development of the Gaza Strip has arguably reached its logical conclusion with the current, increasingly distorted, reconfiguration of economic activity,” says renowned political economist and Harvard scholar, Dr. Sara Roy.  The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development is the final edition of her much anticipated, comprehensive study of the economy of Gaza. For the first-time, Roy examines the past 15-years in Gaza in detail using economic theory and in-depth political analysis to argue that the de-development of Gaza is leading to unviability. Roy defines de-development, a concept she formulated and defined 30-years ago, as “the systematic dismantling of a normal economy and its rational functioning.”
> 
> In this latest edition of The Gaza Strip, Roy enriches this meticulously detailed and pioneering political economy text with an in-depth and shocking reflection and analysis on the wars on Gaza. Written in the aftermath of the 2014 Operation Protective Edge (OPE), Roy serves as a scholar, and witness to unprecedented human, physical, and physiological destruction wrought on Gaza.
> 
> The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development: Sara Roy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look. If I'm not going to spend an hour and a half watching a video, I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> If you have a point to make about Gaza's economy - make it.
> 
> If you acknowledge that Hamas spends money on things other than the needs of its citizens to alleviate the "inhuman conditions" then we agree that the source of he problem is Hamas and not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure not going to spend that same hour and half reading a book by someone with no expertise in either economics or political science because you recommended it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sara Roy (Ph.D. Harvard University) is a senior research scholar at Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies specializing in the Palestinian economy, Palestinian Islamism and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Dr. Roy began her research in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in 1985 with a focus on the economic, social and political development of the Gaza Strip and on U.S. foreign assistance to the region. Since then, she has written extensively on the Palestinian economy, particularly in Gaza, and on Gaza’s de-development, a concept she originated. Dr. Roy is the author of many books and publications, including, The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development (Institute for Palestine Studies, 1995, 2001, 2016) and Hamas and Civil Society in Gaza: Engaging the Islamist Social Sector (Princeton University Press, 2011, 2014)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sara Roy has a degree in Education and none in the fields she is writing in.
> 
> Now. Did you want to try to deny that Hamas spends millions of dollars on things gas not related to the welfare of her citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel will not allow economic development.
Click to expand...


Why should Israel allow Hamas any development?

Everyone in the region could benefit from a wealthy Gaza - Israel, Jordan, Ramallah, Egypt, Saudis, and even Qatar.

Here's the catch:

Everyone, well maybe except for Qatar not 100% yet, want and can assist in that.
*But that would mean the end of Hamas as we know it, and more of the money to the people.* Hamas can attempt to fight for its own survival and UNRWA money until the last Gazan, or be the ones who benefit from the new regional arrangement by showing they have relevance to reality.

Each day they loose more relevance in the eyes of the Arab world, so they simply can choose to miss the timing. The ball is in their hands but no one in the region is expecting a rational response from Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *March 21, 2018 – Phil Weiss on Ahed Tamimi's sentencing and its consequences*



The consequence is that another naive teenage girl has been exploited by people like you to serve your Joooooo hatreds. Eight months in jail and she will be forgotten about in weeks while you move on to another teenage girl to exploit. 

Gee whiz. I wonder who that teenage girl could be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Manal Tamimi


----------



## Hollie

How the Israelis resist islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Non Violent Resistance: Manal Tamimi La resistenza non violenta in Palestina*

**


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> How the Israelis resist islamic terrorism.



Thank you for the "thank you". Mr. Tinmore.

I hope you have learned a lesson on differences between infidel justice (a benefit Ahed Tamimi will enjoy), vs. your preferred Islamist sharia.


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem non-violent tire burning riots.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem non-violent tire burning riots.


While Israel shoots to kill.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem non-violent tire burning riots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel shoots to kill.
Click to expand...


fly a drone over our soldiers and expect consequences. Come with an ak-47 to a military fence and expect consequences.

The equation is the same in any country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rafeef Ziadah on Palestine, G4S and the Prison Industrial Complex*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rafeef Ziadah on Palestine, G4S and the Prison Industrial Complex*
> 
> **



What is she talking about? Justice?

#BDS-holes to reality - knock knock - *Hamas sold Gaza to Iran.*
You're becoming irrelevant by the day with this idiotic denial of the situation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rafeef Ziadah on Palestine, G4S and the Prison Industrial Complex*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is she talking about? Justice?
> 
> #BDS-holes to reality - knock knock - *Hamas sold Gaza to Iran.*
> You're becoming irrelevant by the day with this idiotic denial of the situation.
Click to expand...

Denial of a stupid Israeli talking point?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rafeef Ziadah on Palestine, G4S and the Prison Industrial Complex*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is she talking about? Justice?
> 
> #BDS-holes to reality - knock knock - *Hamas sold Gaza to Iran.*
> You're becoming irrelevant by the day with this idiotic denial of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Denial of a stupid Israeli talking point?
Click to expand...


Reality Tinmore:







They get the weapons, the money and start stupid confrontations - as it has always been it's their choice.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem non-violent tire burning riots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel shoots to kill.
Click to expand...


Maybe in the face of islamic terrorist gee-had attacks, Israel should respond to Hamas with a strongly worded email?

Your heroes in Hamas are paying Arabs-Moslems to attack Israel and die at the border. 

How is it possible you are so deficient in dealing with a reality based worldview?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> While Israel shoots to kill.



Yeah, and Palestinians are using grenades for farming.


----------



## rylah

*Arab Report: The secretary general of the Islamic Jihad has fallen into a coma*

 A source close to the Islamic Jihad said that the movement's secretary-general, Ramadan Abdallah Shalah, had fallen into a coma a few weeks ago after undergoing surgery in a hospital in a southern suburb of Beirut.
The source, who asked not to be named, told the Quds Press Agency that the 60-year-old man had suffered a stroke and had been transferred from the Syrian capital of Damascus to his residence in Beirut for treatment.






P F Tinmore
I'll just put it here...and You tell me who's on the left kissing Salah?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



She needs to polish her delivery. Or she'll never make it to Pallywood stardom.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gee whiz. It seems the old, used-up teen Ahed is no longer of much propaganda value. 

So, you found another teenage girl to exploit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It seems the old, used-up teen Ahed is no longer of much propaganda value.
> 
> So, you found another teenage girl to exploit.
Click to expand...

Support for Ahed Tamini still coming in from every country in the world. 1,759,301 have signed.

Help free my daughter


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee whiz. It seems the old, used-up teen Ahed is no longer of much propaganda value.
> 
> So, you found another teenage girl to exploit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Support for Ahed Tamini still coming in from every country in the world. 1,759,301 have signed.
> 
> Help free my daughter
Click to expand...


Far be it from me to suggest that your abandoning of Ahed for a younger teenager Is, you know, creepy or anything. Maybe it was just time to get a younger, more gullible teenager. Maybe you could offer advise on her outfits, choose her wardrobe?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Who will free Pal’Istan? 

Certainly not Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Her name is Janna Jihad....means "Noble Jihad" in Arabic.

Who's parents call their children like that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Forgot" to mention she openly called for *stabbing and suicide missions?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Forgot" to mention she openly called for *stabbing and suicide missions?*
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Forgot" to mention she openly called for *stabbing and suicide missions?*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Such silly melodrama. How typical for Pallywood inspired cartoons.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Forgot" to mention she openly called for *stabbing and suicide missions?*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Let me guess, the next video will be Roger Waters interviewing Ismail Haniyeh?

One of the reasons Tamimi was tried is because she and her mother openly incited to violence,
the active involvement of her family in terror attacks against civilians could not be overlooked either:

*Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*


----------



## Mindful

A Taste of “Concentration Camp” Gaza: Blue Beach Resort
Introducing Gaza’s Blue Beach Resort
ISRAELLYCOOL.COM


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *
> 
> **




Bollocks to that crap.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *
> 
> **



And that's why there're more Arabs living in Israel today than ever before?
They can march with swastikas and shout "we'll tear Your hearts away" but she bashes Israel....ridiculous.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why there're more Arabs living in Israel today than ever before?
> They can march with swastikas and shout "we'll tear Your hearts away" but she bashes Israel....ridiculous.
Click to expand...


Tinmore can't do the maths.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *
> 
> **



You need some new heroes, Tinmore. Your current gaggle of Jew hating, infidel hating, evil white people hating islamist retrograde heroes long ago became their own worst enemies.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Genocide of Palestinians is Israel’s Long Term Goal | Mnar Muhawesh *
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why there're more Arabs living in Israel today than ever before?
> They can march with swastikas and shout "we'll tear Your hearts away" but she bashes Israel....ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore can't do the maths.
Click to expand...


"So keep that sad kitten's face,
Let's rehearse it now one more time,
As if You weren't out to slaughter the Jews and screwed Your own life"


----------



## Mindful

Palestinian #Pallywood "actors" laugh as they get out of character as an "injured demonstrator" (no blood on his bandage) & his stretcher bearers, last Friday on the Gaza-Israel border. 

Pallywood is a Palestinian propaganda strategy that aims to fool the press & public opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."



Yawn......


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."



Hamas should have thought about the “ law” when they took over Gaza with their Rocket Fire and shipment of weapons.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."



Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
Click to expand...


Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
Click to expand...

What international law are they violating?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh, Rania Khalek*

Perspectives on Palestine, Syria, and Yemen

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
Click to expand...


You see nothing wrong with


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
Click to expand...


Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
Click to expand...


Initiating war, occupation of foreign land.
Infiltration into neighbor state, trafficking arms...just from the top of it.

And I was merely talking about Hamas. PLO is on a much wider international scope, reaching to murder Israeli civilians in foreign countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
Click to expand...

Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.

And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.

You people are a joke.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
Click to expand...


When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.

Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas. 

You people are a bunch of cowards.


----------



## Hollie

Fine folks those Arabs-Moslems. 

They’re still holding to the ideals of Nazi ideology and create current versions of the Hitler Youth Camps to indoctrinate the little Islamo’s in the ways of the Death Cult.

Stateworthy (Welfare stateworthy) folks. 



*The PA’s Nazi sympathies*
by Maurice Hirsch, Adv. and Itamar Marcus

The PA’s Nazi sympathies - PMW Bulletins

Over the years, Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) has documented numerous expressions of Nazi sympathies by PA and Fatah leaders. Admiration of Hitler is one part of the Palestinian Holocaust denial and distortion. 

Some expressions of sympathy are blatant, while others are more subliminal. The following are some examples:
*Senior Fatah official: "Hitler was not ‎morally corrupt. He was daring"‎ *
Senior Fatah official Fatah Central Committee Member Tawfik Tirawi argued that Hitler was not morally corrupt, but rather “daring,” in a TV interview. Tirawi’s approach even offended the Palestinian interviewer who chose to quickly change the topic:





*Tirawi:* "*Let us talk logically. Hitler was not ‎morally corrupt. He was daring*." (Emphasis added -Ed.‎)
*Ma'an host:* "Is that the way to talk? I say: Let's drink some tea and take a break. It ‎would be a pity to be put in jail because of this interview. We will drink tea and take a ‎break. Let's leave Hitler."‎
[Ma’an (independent Palestinian news agency), Jan. 19, 2016]


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response



Yep spot on!
They just go into "hail Jihad", and complain that the infidels don't let them murder, or when they send them to their brides. International low it is - they abide it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak sued for death of U.S. citizen in raid on humanitarian flotilla: today’s 9th Circuit appeal will determine whether former foreign government officials are above the law."
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
Click to expand...


Again, the Pro Palestinian Team is asked a question and there is no response. The Arabs have been trying to destroy Israel since May 14, 1948.I realize that the fact that they have not succeeded upsets you. Destruction of Homes is a consequence of Hamas shooting Rocketsinto Israel but that isn’t against “ International Law? If “ International Law” were valid and applied to everybody where were they before 1967? 
     Still haven’t shown proof that Israel deliberately aims at innocent Civilians and uses them as target practice. You are a joke


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who needs laws when you have islamic dictators and a koran?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
Click to expand...

Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever you ask a Pro Palestinian why the Islamics, Muslims don’t abide by “ International Law” there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
Click to expand...


Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What international law are they violating?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...




Your usual cut and paste slogan.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see nothing wrong with
> Let’s see...,,  Literally tearing Israeli Soldiers to death, The Fogel Family. Those three Israeli boys. Etc. etc.   What “ International Law” are the Israelis breaking and show proof of this as long as it’s not from a Pro Palestinian Rag
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...


 You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.


----------



## montelatici

The absurd concept that blockading a million or more people is not attacking said people.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

montelatici said:


> The absurd concept that blockading a million or more people is not attacking said people.


 
The absurd comment that Israel should do nothing while Hamas smuggled weapons in is typical of The Pro Palestinian Mentality


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, destroys thousands of homes and businesses, and steals their land.
> 
> And all you people can come up with is onesies twosies from years ago.
> 
> You people are a joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.
Click to expand...

The attacks are in front of your face but you don't see them.

Example:

You have seen a lot about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. Why are they protesting.

I await your response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attacks are in front of your face but you don't see them.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You have seen a lot about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. Why are they protesting.
> 
> I await your response.
Click to expand...


They’re protesting their own failures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attacks are in front of your face but you don't see them.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You have seen a lot about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. Why are they protesting.
> 
> I await your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re protesting their own failures.
Click to expand...

Stupid post of the day.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attacks are in front of your face but you don't see them.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You have seen a lot about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. Why are they protesting.
> 
> I await your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They’re protesting their own failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
Click to expand...


Just having a little fun at your expense. Shirley, the failures of Arab-Moslem’dom with respect to the goals of the Hamas Charter are cause for you to protest, protest your failures.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



11 years of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11 years of Islamic terrorism.
Click to expand...

Oh jeese, more of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you people start wars, the war is brought to you. There is no Islamist entitlement to attack a sovereign nation without consequence.
> 
> Dead Arabs-Moslems are a requirement for Arabs-Moslems who wage war from civilian areas.
> 
> You people are a bunch of cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians in Palestinian villages and neighborhoods. I don't see your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamist talking point. Absent cut and paste YouTube videos, you’re left with silly one-liners, totally unsupported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who wins the Prize with deflection. Israel just goes in and attacks? Threads, please. There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The attacks are in front of your face but you don't see them.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You have seen a lot about Ahed Tamimi and Nabi Saleh. Why are they protesting.
> 
> I await your response.
Click to expand...



Great question.

I think they are protesting living under "Jew rule".

What do you think they are protesting?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11 years of Islamic terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh jeese, more of Israel's bullshit terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


Oh Jesse, the usual Tinmore slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

-- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein

Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel



Nothing to do with her family direct participation in violence and incitement?

And link please... also why didn't You post her full name?  "Hevenly Jihad" (Janna Jihad) is a name everyone should know and understand.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



And yet this is still reality - Tamimi and her mother incited openly and loudly for murder:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You cut and pasted this previously. Why the need to spam multiple threads?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel




So, you’re now cutting and pasting without attribution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you’re now cutting and pasting without attribution.
Click to expand...

OK, here.

Manal Tamimi


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you’re now cutting and pasting without attribution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here.
> 
> Manal Tamimi
Click to expand...


Your “thing” with pre-teen female children is creepy.


----------



## Hollie

No surprise at all. The Jew hatred delineated in the Korans and the proscription for war and conquest that pervades the ideology invented by Muhammud (swish), will not allow accommodation by Islamist fascism.


*Palestinian Arabs prefer terrorism to peace deal, poll finds*

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/241170

Just one out of four Palestinian Arabs back efforts to reach deal with Israel - while nearly 40% endorse terror attacks against Israel.

A plurality of Palestinian Arabs support terror attacks against Israelis Jews, while only about a quarter say they support negotiations to resolve the conflict, a new poll shows.

According to the results of a survey released Thursday by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, nearly 40% of Arab residents of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip backed the use of violence against Israelis – called by the euphemism “armed struggle” for the purposes of the poll.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Women Wedding song 2017*

**


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult music video


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> No surprise at all. The Jew hatred delineated in the Korans and the proscription for war and conquest that pervades the ideology invented by Muhammud (swish), will not allow accommodation by Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Arabs prefer terrorism to peace deal, poll finds*
> 
> http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/241170
> 
> Just one out of four Palestinian Arabs back efforts to reach deal with Israel - while nearly 40% endorse terror attacks against Israel.
> 
> A plurality of Palestinian Arabs support terror attacks against Israelis Jews, while only about a quarter say they support negotiations to resolve the conflict, a new poll shows.
> 
> According to the results of a survey released Thursday by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, nearly 40% of Arab residents of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip backed the use of violence against Israelis – called by the euphemism “armed struggle” for the purposes of the poll.





Hollie said:


> Just one out of four Palestinian Arabs back efforts to reach deal with Israel


A "deal" is something you get from a used car salesman.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Women Wedding song 2017*



I do hope you will leave the pre-teen girls alone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with her family direct participation in violence and incitement?
> 
> And link please... also why didn't You post her full name?  "Hevenly Jihad" (Janna Jihad) is a name everyone should know and understand.
Click to expand...

WOW, so many sour grapes posts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No surprise at all. The Jew hatred delineated in the Korans and the proscription for war and conquest that pervades the ideology invented by Muhammud (swish), will not allow accommodation by Islamist fascism.
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Arabs prefer terrorism to peace deal, poll finds*
> 
> http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/241170
> 
> Just one out of four Palestinian Arabs back efforts to reach deal with Israel - while nearly 40% endorse terror attacks against Israel.
> 
> A plurality of Palestinian Arabs support terror attacks against Israelis Jews, while only about a quarter say they support negotiations to resolve the conflict, a new poll shows.
> 
> According to the results of a survey released Thursday by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, nearly 40% of Arab residents of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip backed the use of violence against Israelis – called by the euphemism “armed struggle” for the purposes of the poll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just one out of four Palestinian Arabs back efforts to reach deal with Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A "deal" is something you get from a used car salesman.
Click to expand...


I see you are among those wannabes who leave the gee-had to pre-teen girls.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with her family direct participation in violence and incitement?
> 
> And link please... also why didn't You post her full name?  "Hevenly Jihad" (Janna Jihad) is a name everyone should know and understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many sour grapes posts.
Click to expand...


Wow, all your usual spam. 

I can’t be held responsible for your tender-islamo hurt feelings.


----------



## Hollie

http://m.jpost.com/Magazine/Murdering-Jewish-children-is-for-Allah-according-to-the-Palestinian-Authority-411334

*MURDERING JEWISH CHILDREN IS FOR ALLAH, ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY*
4 minute read.
By ITAMAR MARCUS


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with her family direct participation in violence and incitement?
> 
> And link please... also why didn't You post her full name?  "Hevenly Jihad" (Janna Jihad) is a name everyone should know and understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, so many sour grapes posts.
Click to expand...



You promote a child who's parents called her *"Heavenly Jihad" * and expect that stench won't be noticed?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel



Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?

Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?

Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
Click to expand...

I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?






Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...



Media should stop whitewashing Ahed Tamimi's terror-supporting family













*
Do Jordanian queens also attend Jihadi weddings?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...


You realize “queenie” is not pre-teen, correct?

Odd that you Islamics force your women into Shame Sacks but you have no issue with sexualizing vulnerable and naive pre-teens when it serves your Joooooo hating agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You realize “queenie” is not pre-teen, correct?
> 
> Odd that you Islamics force your women into Shame Sacks but you have no issue with sexualizing vulnerable and naive pre-teens when it serves your Joooooo hating agenda.
Click to expand...

Palestinian women do not have dress codes.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You realize “queenie” is not pre-teen, correct?
> 
> Odd that you Islamics force your women into Shame Sacks but you have no issue with sexualizing vulnerable and naive pre-teens when it serves your Joooooo hating agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian women do not have dress codes.
Click to expand...


I'm sure there is one, albeit non-officially, in Gaza.  I've read that the West Bank is a little more lax in that respect.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You realize “queenie” is not pre-teen, correct?
> 
> Odd that you Islamics force your women into Shame Sacks but you have no issue with sexualizing vulnerable and naive pre-teens when it serves your Joooooo hating agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian women do not have dress codes.
Click to expand...


Well gee, it wasn’t so long ago.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3753362,00.html


Hamas launches campaign with list of religious dos and don'ts. Deputy religious affairs minister says 'We have to encourage people to be virtuous.' Human rights activist says these are attempts to Islamize society


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> -- Israeli intelligence on the King Hussein Bridge this evening released the small journalist Janna Jihad from the village of Nabi Saleh, whom the occupation authorities had suspended her for questioning for more than hour during her return from Jordan after participating in the Conference of Leaders for Children and Nobel Peace Prize Laureates. Janna was invited to the conferance by Prince Ali bin Al Hussein
> 
> Janna had been 12 since four days ago and the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs announced that Janna is the next danger to the State of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose idea was it to sexualize a pre-teen girl with the tight fitting top and bare shoulder?
> 
> Do you think the Prince would dress his daughter like that?
> 
> Why would you celebrate the exploitation of pre-teen females?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. What would Queen Rania say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine and Jordan are not Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You realize “queenie” is not pre-teen, correct?
> 
> Odd that you Islamics force your women into Shame Sacks but you have no issue with sexualizing vulnerable and naive pre-teens when it serves your Joooooo hating agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian women do not have dress codes.
Click to expand...


Couldn't be more wrong - an Arab girl might be severely punished if one hears a word about indecency.
The Western aimed propaganda is specifically designed to root this point out of the conversation. But it's still reality.

Druze girls are even worse - they can cause real death to an Arab guy if found out she even went out with him - no matter the cloths.

I had an Arab Christian student with a likely story - *luckily* he turned out ok,  but not without  leaveing Kfar Yassif for good... and that's in Israel...not Gaza or Najd.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*War, Media, Propaganda | Muslims As The Other - A Personal Narrative*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *War, Media, Propaganda | Muslims As The Other - A Personal Narrative*
> 
> **



Oh boy why do every video by these "peace activists" end up with reading anti-Jewish libels from a paper?


Seriously enough with this "Jews poison wells" bs. 
This is ridiculous.

*Medieval accusations against Jews*

Despite some vague understanding of how diseases could spread, the existence of viruses and bacteria was unknown in medieval times, and the outbreak of disease could not be scientifically explained. Any sudden deterioration of health was often blamed on poisoning. Europe was hit by several waves of Black Death (often identified as bubonic plague) throughout the late Middle Ages. Crowded cities were especially hard hit by the disease, with death tolls as high as 50% of the population. In their distress, emotionally distraught survivors searched desperately for an explanation. The city-dwelling Jews of the Middle Ages, living in walled-up, segregated ghetto districts, aroused suspicion. An outbreak of plague thus became the trigger for Black Death persecutions, with hundreds of Jews burned at the stake, or rounded up in synagogues and private houses that were then set aflame. With the decline of plague in Europe, these accusations lessened, but the term "well-poisoning" remains a loaded one that continues to crop up even today among anti-Semites around the world.

Walter Laqueur writes in his book _The Changing Face of Anti-Semitism: From Ancient Times to the Present Day_:

There were no mass attacks against "Jewish poisoners" after the period of the Black Death, but the accusation became part and parcel of antisemitic dogma and language. It appeared again in early 1953 in the form of the "doctors' plot" in Stalin's last days, when hundreds of Jewish physicians in the Soviet Union were arrested and some of them killed on the charge of having caused the death of prominent Communist leaders... Similar charges were made in the 1980s and 1990s in radical Arab nationalist and Muslim fundamentalist propaganda that accused the Jews of spreading AIDS and other infectious diseases.[3]


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *War, Media, Propaganda | Muslims As The Other - A Personal Narrative*



Just a Linda Sarsour wannabe.


----------



## Hollie

*Hamas’s Chosen Weapon Against Muslim Moderates Is Holocaust Denial, New Report Shows*

Hamas’s Chosen Weapon Against Muslim Moderates Is Holocaust Denial, New Report Shows





A Nazi swastika placed between two Palestinian flags during violence on the Israel-Gaza border, April 6, 2018. Photo: Screenshot.

The spectacle of the Nazi swastika flying alongside Palestinian flags at violent demonstrations on the Israel-Gaza border over the last fortnight has been widely interpreted in Israel as one more example of the “genocidal message” that Hamas is sending to the Jewish state.

Significantly, a new briefing from the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) issued on Wednesday suggests that at the same time as expressing admiration for Nazi antisemitism, Hamas nonetheless remains committed to denying Nazi crimes against the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Peace Activist: 'Israel Has Declared War On Palestinian Children’*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Peace Activist: 'Israel Has Declared War On Palestinian Children’*



Do you realize you make Arabs-Moslems appear to be utterly out of touch with reality by cutting and pasting these goofy YouTube videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Peace Activist: 'Israel Has Declared War On Palestinian Children’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize you make Arabs-Moslems appear to be utterly out of touch with reality by cutting and pasting these goofy YouTube videos?
Click to expand...

Do you think people do not notice that everything you post is slime?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Peace Activist: 'Israel Has Declared War On Palestinian Children’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize you make Arabs-Moslems appear to be utterly out of touch with reality by cutting and pasting these goofy YouTube videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think people do not notice that everything you post is slime?
Click to expand...


Oh the irony...


----------



## Hollie

The lengths that Arab-Moslems go to as a means to meet their koranic obligations toward Jew hating consumes their entire existence


*Palestinian TV analyst denies Holocaust, says Jews colluded with Hitler*

Palestinian TV analyst denies Holocaust, says Jews colluded with Hitler

*Political commentator Hani Abu Zeid claims scope of German genocide 'was not that large'; interviewer agrees it was 'a lie' spread around the world*
By STUART WINER 
15 April 2018, 1:18 pm  10
_




Screen capture from video of Palestinian political analyst and writer Hani Abu Zeid denying the Holocaust during an interview broadcast on Palestinian TV, April 10, 2018. (Facebook)_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israeli Peace Activist: 'Israel Has Declared War On Palestinian Children’*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize you make Arabs-Moslems appear to be utterly out of touch with reality by cutting and pasting these goofy YouTube videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think people do not notice that everything you post is slime?
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie

My nominee for Arab-Moslem "Mother of the Year". 
"Martyrs in the Millions". 

Lovely, lovely people. And a lovely "religion"


Mother Brings Three-Month-Old Baby to Gaza "Return March," Declares: We Will March to Our Villages - Martyrs in the Millions
MOTHER BRINGS THREE-MONTH-OLD BABY TO GAZA "RETURN MARCH," DECLARES: WE WILL MARCH TO OUR VILLAGES - MARTYRS IN THE MILLIONS
April 06, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ahed Tamimi and the result of a retrograde society that exploits children.

Ahed Tamimi gets eight months in prison after plea deal


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Jail.


----------



## Hollie

The following puts into perspective just how dangerous islamic terrorism has been (in just the limited timeframe identified), to Israelis.


http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Palestinian/Pages/Wave-of-terror-October-2015.aspx

*Wave of terror 2015-2018*
*18 Mar 2018*

The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews. 

*Thirty months of terror – 13 September 2015 to the present
*

*Since 13 September 2015, 65 innocent people have been killed in terrorist attacks (including a Palestinian, two Americans, an Eritrean, and a British student), and 923 wounded (including uninvolved Palestinians).*
*There have been: 193 stabbing attacks and 140 attempted stabbings; 174 shooting attacks; and 64 vehicular (ramming) attacks.*
*In addition, riots and other types of attacks occur almost daily: rock throwing (6799), roadside/pipe bombs (194) and Molotov cocktails/grenades (1371)*
*In the south, 66 rockets and mortar bombs have fallen in Israel, launched from the Gaza Strip.*

*In 2017, 54 terrorist attacks were successfully carried out, while 400 terrorist attacks, including 13 suicide attacks and 8 kidnappings, as well as 1,100 potential lone-wolf attacks, were prevented. *

*In 2016, 12 vehicular ramming attacks and 100 stabbing attacks were thwarted by security forces.  In all, 344 major attacks (including 400 potential lone-wolf attacks) were prevented and 108 attacks were carried out.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> The following puts into perspective just how dangerous islamic terrorism has been (in just the limited timeframe identified), to Israelis.
> 
> 
> http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Palestinian/Pages/Wave-of-terror-October-2015.aspx
> 
> *Wave of terror 2015-2018*
> *18 Mar 2018*
> 
> The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews.
> 
> *Thirty months of terror – 13 September 2015 to the present
> *
> 
> *Since 13 September 2015, 65 innocent people have been killed in terrorist attacks (including a Palestinian, two Americans, an Eritrean, and a British student), and 923 wounded (including uninvolved Palestinians).*
> *There have been: 193 stabbing attacks and 140 attempted stabbings; 174 shooting attacks; and 64 vehicular (ramming) attacks.*
> *In addition, riots and other types of attacks occur almost daily: rock throwing (6799), roadside/pipe bombs (194) and Molotov cocktails/grenades (1371)*
> *In the south, 66 rockets and mortar bombs have fallen in Israel, launched from the Gaza Strip.*
> 
> *In 2017, 54 terrorist attacks were successfully carried out, while 400 terrorist attacks, including 13 suicide attacks and 8 kidnappings, as well as 1,100 potential lone-wolf attacks, were prevented. *
> 
> *In 2016, 12 vehicular ramming attacks and 100 stabbing attacks were thwarted by security forces.  In all, 344 major attacks (including 400 potential lone-wolf attacks) were prevented and 108 attacks were carried out.*


     Stop picking on them. They are just expressing themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




*Q. What does she have to offer the Israelis beside threats?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Irene Calis*
Emancipated Palestinian Futures? Hard Lessons from the South African Dream Deferred


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Irene Calis*
> Emancipated Palestinian Futures? Hard Lessons from the South African Dream Deferred


Irrelevant
Arabs don't care about which skin Jews have as long as they're Jews.
South Africa was based on skin color.

*Q. What does she have to offer the Israelis beside lies and threats?*


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians are emancipated?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal'istanians are emancipated?



_*"Hamas is protecting the honor of the Arab nations."* _  

...That was a good one. 
Did they hear that one in Tehran?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





PRICELESS, this is at least half of the problem Arab societies face today around the middle east.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe


SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs


Full equality for all people?

Man, that's nasty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
Click to expand...


You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.
Click to expand...

Well, Israeli apartheid isn't it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, Israeli apartheid isn't it.
Click to expand...


Your use of slogans and cliches suggests you don't understand the definitions of the terms you copy and paste.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, Israeli apartheid isn't it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of slogans and cliches suggests you don't understand the definitions of the terms you copy and paste.
Click to expand...

What is your definition of apartheid?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, Israeli apartheid isn't it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of slogans and cliches suggests you don't understand the definitions of the terms you copy and paste.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your definition of apartheid?
Click to expand...


Why don’t you look it up? 

I note that you parrot all the “South Africa” and “bantustan” slogans you have read in these forums and never bothered to understand those terms and definitions.

Shirley, you can find a YouTube video?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deem. A linda Sarsour wannabe
> 
> 
> SHOCKING Racist, Jew hating Video of Lamis Deek, the Extremist Muslim Lawyer for the Sheepshead Bay Mega Mosque Atlas Shrugs
> 
> 
> 
> Full equality for all people?
> 
> Man, that's nasty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding only yourself if you believe an islamic fascist has any conception of equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, Israeli apartheid isn't it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of slogans and cliches suggests you don't understand the definitions of the terms you copy and paste.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your definition of apartheid?
Click to expand...


When a PLO negotiator demands there will be ZERO Jews in his future state.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What is your definition of apartheid?



Is the Czech Republic an apartheid state?  Why or why not?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



So, basically, you have no clue.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Major Independence Day Bombing Attempt Foiled

*Major Independence Day Bombing Attempt Foiled*

Security inspectors at the Reihan Crossing west of Jenin discovered a powerful 10-kilogram bomb (22 lb.) hidden in the roof of a Palestinian Authority Arab truck. The terrorists planned to use the bomb during Yom Ha’atzmaut, Israel’s Independence Day which begins this evening.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*THE 8TH ANNUAL HOUSTON PALESTINIAN FESTIVAL | 03-24-2018*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Windows Into Palestine Festival, Minneapolis*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians.



Another silly Pallywood Production Studios YouTube video that appeals to folks like you.


----------



## Hollie

To be expected from Arab-Moslem terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

To be expected from Arab-Islamist terrorists.


Palestinians increase payments to terrorists to $403 million






Arab-Israeli Conflict
15:35 | 03/06/18

PALESTINIANS INCREASE PAYMENTS TO TERRORISTS TO $403 MILLION
By LAHAV HARKOV
_





Mourners carry the body of Palestinian assailant Hamza Zamarah, during his funeral in Halhoul, in the West Bank February 17, 2018.. (photo credit:" REUTERS/MUSSA QAWASMA)
The Palestinian Authority paid terrorists and their families over $347 million in 2017.
The Palestinian Authority increased its payments to terrorists and their families by nearly $56 million, Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Avi Dichter (Likud) said overnight Monday, when a bill to discourage the practice passed a first reading._


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Politics and Parenting in Palestine: Laila El-Haddad*

**


----------



## Hollie

Parenting in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cultists. It never ends.


----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) attacking civilians again.



More of your usual, juvenile antics.

Does Hamas pay you on a cut and paste basis for the Pally’wood Production YouTube videos?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. I wonder if they are eligible for the rather stingy benefits that Hamas pays for dead wannabes. 


*4 Palestinian terrorists killed in Gaza ‘work accident’*

*https://worldisraelnews.com/4-palestinian-terrorists-killed-in-gaza-work-accident/*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Still no word as to why he was in Israel's war zone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


He doesn't know the answer to that question because it does not fit his agenda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't know the answer to that question because it does not fit his agenda.
Click to expand...


What war zone are you befuddled about?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Lies and fraud. Just another way to spell Arab-Islamist terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


You posted Nutandyahoo.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted Nutandyahoo.
Click to expand...


You were forced to retreat to your usual spam of silly emoticons.

Waving the flag of surrender. There’s a good Moslem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Poor IDF goontards. You have to feel sorry for them.

*Not!*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Poor IDF goontards. You have to feel sorry for them.
> 
> *Not!*



You poor, dear. You remain infuriated over Arab-Moslem incompetence and failures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor IDF goontards. You have to feel sorry for them.
> 
> *Not!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You poor, dear. You remain infuriated over Arab-Moslem incompetence and failures.
Click to expand...

Relevance?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor IDF goontards. You have to feel sorry for them.
> 
> *Not!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You poor, dear. You remain infuriated over Arab-Moslem incompetence and failures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Relevance?
Click to expand...


Obviously.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Poor IDF goontards. You have to feel sorry for them.
> 
> *Not!*



Poor Jihadi lunatics, no wedding ceremony to whine about.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted Nutandyahoo.
Click to expand...


*Netanyahu knows a thing or two about Your Jihadi heroes:*



*Sabena Flight 571*

On 9 May 1972 at 4:00 p.m. the rescue operation began: a team of 16 Sayeret Matkal commandos, led by Ehud Barak[1] and including Benjamin Netanyahu,[1] both future Israeli Prime Ministers, approached the aircraft [7] disguised as aircraft technicians in white coveralls.[1] Having immobilized it during the preceding night, they convinced the hijackers that its hydraulic system needed repair. (There was an unexpected last minute bathroom-break delay for one of the team members.)[8] They then stormed the aircraft,[2] killing both male hijackers within two minutes.[9] They also captured the two women hijackers[1] and rescued all 90 remaining passengers. Three passengers were wounded in the exchange of fire, one of whom, 22-year-old Miriam Anderson, later died of her injuries. Netanyahu was also wounded during the rescue when another commando, Marko Ashkenazi, accidentally discharged his gun as he used it to hit Theresa Halsa. The bullet passed through her and penetrated Netanyahu’s bicep.[2]





*Aftermath*
Halsa and Rima Tannous were eventually sentenced to life imprisonment—Halsa for 220 years.[2] They were freed in November 1983, in a prisoner exchange after the 1982 Lebanon War.[2]

Sabena continued to operate the aircraft for another five years, until it was purchased by Israel Aircraft Industries. It was eventually sold to the Israeli Air Force, and served as a spy plane for many years, participating in most of the Air Force's long-range operations.[_citation needed_]

Captain Levy, a Royal Air Force veteran who took part in strategic bombing missions over Germany during World War II[1] and also in the Berlin airlift,[1] had joined Sabena in 1952.[1] He retired in 1982[1] and died of a heart attack, at a hospital near his home in Dover on 1 August 2010.[1] The hijacking took place on his 50th birthday.[1]

Sabena Flight 571 - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



It seems your islamic terrorist heroes will free Pal'istan.  They will free it from ever becoming more than just another failed mini-caliphate. 

And Allah knows best.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.



I think they don't like Islamic terrorists. Nabi Saleh could be a modern, prosperous place if it wasn't for people like you islamic retrogrades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they don't like Islamic terrorists. Nabi Saleh could be a modern, prosperous place if it wasn't for people like you islamic retrogrades.
Click to expand...

BS, Israel just wants to steal their stuff. Crooks that they are.


----------



## Hollie

Here's another member of the Tamimi tribe. She shares the same apparent mental disorder that afflicts the rest of the tribe.

Kind of creepy that you have such a fascination with the teenage members of the tribe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Here's another member of the Tamimi tribe. She shares the same apparent mental disorder that afflicts the rest of the tribe.
> 
> Kind of creepy that you have such a fascination with the teenage members of the tribe.


Like resisting the occupation?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another member of the Tamimi tribe. She shares the same apparent mental disorder that afflicts the rest of the tribe.
> 
> Kind of creepy that you have such a fascination with the teenage members of the tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like resisting the occupation?
Click to expand...


A cult that glorifies mass murder is resisting anything?

How courageous of you to encourage teenage girls to transform themselves into social misfits. Although I acknowledge that the politico-religious ideology of Islamism has a 1400 year long history of abuse aimed at teen and pre-teen female children. 

Just following in the way of your "prophet", I suppose.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another member of the Tamimi tribe. She shares the same apparent mental disorder that afflicts the rest of the tribe.
> 
> Kind of creepy that you have such a fascination with the teenage members of the tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like resisting the occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A cult that glorifies mass murder is resisting anything?
> 
> How courageous of you to encourage teenage girls to transform themselves into social misfits. Although I acknowledge that the politico-religious ideology of Islamism has a 1400 year long history of abuse aimed at teen and pre-teen female children.
> 
> Just following in the way of your "prophet", I suppose.
Click to expand...

A cult that glorifies mass murder is defending anything?

*Gaza Hellfire: Israeli bombs kill 98 Palestinians, incl 20 children*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another member of the Tamimi tribe. She shares the same apparent mental disorder that afflicts the rest of the tribe.
> 
> Kind of creepy that you have such a fascination with the teenage members of the tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like resisting the occupation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A cult that glorifies mass murder is resisting anything?
> 
> How courageous of you to encourage teenage girls to transform themselves into social misfits. Although I acknowledge that the politico-religious ideology of Islamism has a 1400 year long history of abuse aimed at teen and pre-teen female children.
> 
> Just following in the way of your "prophet", I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A cult that glorifies mass murder is defending anything?
> 
> *Gaza Hellfire: Israeli bombs kill 98 Palestinians, incl 20 children*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Thanks.

Next, show that to the prayer leader at your madrassah and advise him that Islamic Terrorism carries consequences.

Remember, the Islamic terrorists are not dead; they’re “martyred”.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


>


As usual, It was Israeli goontards attacking Palestinian civilians on Palestinian land.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


>



As usual, your Islamic terrorist heroes using civilians as cannon fodder. 

Odd that you so admire Islamic terrorist cowards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, your Islamic terrorist heroes using civilians as cannon fodder.
> 
> Odd that you so admire Islamic terrorist cowards.
Click to expand...

More terrorist cards.

Good girl.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How creepy. Another of the pre-teen female children you have a not so healthy fascination with.

Ahed is too old for you at this point?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Just to remind Israel that the world is watching.

1,760,154 have signed. Support still coming in from every country in the world for Ahed Tamimi and other child prisoners.

Help free my daughter


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How courageous of you to cheer on acts of violence that can kill and maim little muhammuds. 

I'm sure you will be among the first to whine and moan when the IDF uses gunfire to defend themselves and little muhammuds are left killed or wounded. 

Your rabid Jew hatreds have become a pathology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Just to remind Israel that the world is watching.
> 
> 1,760,154 have signed. Support still coming in from every country in the world for Ahed Tamimi and other child prisoners.
> 
> Help free my daughter


Just to remind Islamic terrorists, eight months in jail can be the penalty for assault and battery.

Yes, Tinmore, you too can put your prayer mat on the floor of an Israeli jail, pray to Mecca from behind the toilet in cell block "C".

Of course, that would assume you do more than manipulate pre-teen girls to do the gee-had you can't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How courageous of you to cheer on acts of violence that can kill and maim little muhammuds.
> 
> I'm sure you will be among the first to whine and moan when the IDF uses gunfire to defend themselves and little muhammuds are left killed or wounded.
> 
> Your rabid Jew hatreds have become a pathology.
Click to expand...

An occupying power cannot claim self defense.

Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How courageous of you to cheer on acts of violence that can kill and maim little muhammuds.
> 
> I'm sure you will be among the first to whine and moan when the IDF uses gunfire to defend themselves and little muhammuds are left killed or wounded.
> 
> Your rabid Jew hatreds have become a pathology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An occupying power cannot claim self defense.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...


Actually, they can. Prove it to yourself. Like so many of your nonsensical claims, that one also has been thoroughly refuted. 

Threaten an Israeli with a weapon while telling him or her you have a right to assault without interference.

Maybe duct tape your Korans into a double wide and use them as weapons, you angry wannabe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*OIL KILLS POETS SPILL - Suheir Hammad cam1*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*POET IN ANDALUCIA: Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## Hollie

It's always the same rants with the more excitable of the Arabs-Moslems. They spend their every waking moment hating. They hate themselves, they hate each other and they hate their miserable lives. 

They have no ambitions toward anything but making goofy pronouncements about killing Jews in the name of the ancient warlord they worship. 


Gaza Scholar Khaled Hany Morshid at "Return March" Venue Calls to Brandish the Sword of Jihad, Fight the Jews


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Harazeen*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*BBC World News Annemarie Jacir interview*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem mother of the Year interview.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Jennifer Jajeh, and Her one woman show I Heart Hamas*

**


----------



## Hollie

Interview with another Tamimi Death Cultist.


----------



## Hollie

Rob Shimshock of Campus Unmasked reports:

Meet UC Santa Barbara's Students for Justice in Palestine chapter, which enjoys posting pictures of terrorists, condemning the police and American flag, using the sickle and hammer, and spelling "women" and "human" incorrectly


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Rob Shimshock of Campus Unmasked reports:
> 
> Meet UC Santa Barbara's Students for Justice in Palestine chapter, which enjoys posting pictures of terrorists, condemning the police and American flag, using the sickle and hammer, and spelling "women" and "human" incorrectly


Oooooo, terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rob Shimshock of Campus Unmasked reports:
> 
> Meet UC Santa Barbara's Students for Justice in Palestine chapter, which enjoys posting pictures of terrorists, condemning the police and American flag, using the sickle and hammer, and spelling "women" and "human" incorrectly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorism.
Click to expand...


It’s funny to see you so befuddled, you retreat to your usual cut and paste slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rob Shimshock of Campus Unmasked reports:
> 
> Meet UC Santa Barbara's Students for Justice in Palestine chapter, which enjoys posting pictures of terrorists, condemning the police and American flag, using the sickle and hammer, and spelling "women" and "human" incorrectly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s funny to see you so befuddled, you retreat to your usual cut and paste slogans.
Click to expand...

More of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rob Shimshock of Campus Unmasked reports:
> 
> Meet UC Santa Barbara's Students for Justice in Palestine chapter, which enjoys posting pictures of terrorists, condemning the police and American flag, using the sickle and hammer, and spelling "women" and "human" incorrectly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooo, terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s funny to see you so befuddled, you retreat to your usual cut and paste slogans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


More of your usual cut and paste slogans.


----------



## Hollie

To no ones surprise, “victims” of the Islamist terrorist Tire Burning Riots have largely been Islamist terrorists. 

And Allah knows best.

*Exposed: More Palestinian ‘Victims’ Identified as Terror Org Members*

Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting

Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:


7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
1 military activist of the Fatah movement
1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
3 without any significant organizational affiliation
*Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> To no ones surprise, “victims” of the Islamist terrorist Tire Burning Riots have largely been Islamist terrorists.
> 
> And Allah knows best.
> 
> *Exposed: More Palestinian ‘Victims’ Identified as Terror Org Members*
> 
> Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting
> 
> Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:
> 
> 
> 7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
> 2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
> 1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
> 1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
> 1 military activist of the Fatah movement
> 1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
> 1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
> 3 without any significant organizational affiliation
> *Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*


OK, so?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> To no ones surprise, “victims” of the Islamist terrorist Tire Burning Riots have largely been Islamist terrorists.
> 
> And Allah knows best.
> 
> *Exposed: More Palestinian ‘Victims’ Identified as Terror Org Members*
> 
> Exposed: More Palestinian 'Victims' Identified as Terror Org Members | HonestReporting
> 
> Before the data is presented, and for the sake of readers’ convenience, I would like to point out that of the 19 killed there are:
> 
> 
> 7 operatives from Hamas’ Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 operative of the military wing of the Islamic Jihad, Saraya al-Quds
> 2 activists of Katayef al-Maqawama al-Wataniya al-Filastina – the military wing of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
> 1 operative of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, the military wing of Fatah’s Shahid Nakhl al-‘Amudi faction
> 1 Hamas security forces operative (armed)
> 1 military activist of the Fatah movement
> 1 affiliate of Shada al-Aqsa – the Shahid unit of Nabil Mas’ud – an Iranian-oriented faction
> 1 Hamas-affiliated operative with an orientation to the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades
> 1 Fatah activist – it has not been proven that he is a military activist
> 3 without any significant organizational affiliation
> *Total of 15 persons with actual military identification. Another 4 whose connection to military activity has not been proven.*
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...


You’re an Islamic of few words and fewer thoughts.


----------



## Hollie

Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism

*Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism *
After consultations with top army brass and senior security officials, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday announced a series of punitive measures aimed at deterring Palestinian terrorists from carrying out attacks similar to the deadly assaults which killed four Israelis in the last week.

...

The premier said that he instructed the security services to carry out “a number of additional steps, including expediting the demolition of terrorists’ homes, expanding administrative detentions of rioters, and banning those engaged in incitement from the Old City and the Temple Mount.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism
> 
> *Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism *
> After consultations with top army brass and senior security officials, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday announced a series of punitive measures aimed at deterring Palestinian terrorists from carrying out attacks similar to the deadly assaults which killed four Israelis in the last week.
> 
> ...
> 
> The premier said that he instructed the security services to carry out “a number of additional steps, including expediting the demolition of terrorists’ homes, expanding administrative detentions of rioters, and banning those engaged in incitement from the Old City and the Temple Mount.”


More illegal stuff.

Israel is shooting itself in the foot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism
> 
> *Israel announces series of ‘additional steps’ against Arab terrorism *
> After consultations with top army brass and senior security officials, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday announced a series of punitive measures aimed at deterring Palestinian terrorists from carrying out attacks similar to the deadly assaults which killed four Israelis in the last week.
> 
> ...
> 
> The premier said that he instructed the security services to carry out “a number of additional steps, including expediting the demolition of terrorists’ homes, expanding administrative detentions of rioters, and banning those engaged in incitement from the Old City and the Temple Mount.”
> 
> 
> 
> More illegal stuff.
> 
> Israel is shooting itself in the foot.
Click to expand...


Nothing illegal about confronting islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Oooooo, terrorism. 

Keep pimping that propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Oooooo, terrorism.
> 
> Keep pimping that propaganda.



It's funny to watch you get so befuddled you're forced to retreat to your usual cut and paste cartoons and slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli goontards attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli goontards attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.



A staged Pallywood Studios photo op.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Creative Demonstrations in Bil'in, Palestine*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Paeacful islamic terrorist demonstrations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli goontards attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli goontards attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.



Resisting Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Taking out the trash that is islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Stealing land and killing people has consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Taking out the trash that is islamic terrorism.


Poor IDF (Israeli Doofus Force). People yell at them, kick and slap them, throw stones and Molotov at them. Yet they are too fucking stupid to figure out that they are not welcome.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing land and killing people has consequences.
Click to expand...


It does. The result is an occasional requirement to deliver an ultimatum and subsequent beat down to islamic terrorists.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taking out the trash that is islamic terrorism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor IDF (Israeli Doofus Force). People yell at them, kick and slap them, throw stones and Molotov at them. Yet they are too fucking stupid to figure out that they are not welcome.
Click to expand...


A well behaved islamic terrorist is a tear-gassed islamic terrorist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing land and killing people has consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does. The result is an occasional requirement to deliver an ultimatum and subsequent beat down to islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...

Israel's military has been attacking Palestinian civilians for 70 years.

When do they expect to win?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealing land and killing people has consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does. The result is an occasional requirement to deliver an ultimatum and subsequent beat down to islamic terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's military has been attacking Palestinian civilians for 70 years.
> 
> When do they expect to win?
Click to expand...


You have that completely befuddled. 

Who's surprised?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pallywood nonsense.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



If the court is illegal, you should forward a relevant YouTube video to the _Islamic Association of Legal Courts _and demand satisfaction_. 
_
Thanks. 

Be sure to cc. us on your transmittal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the court is illegal, you should forward a relevant YouTube video to the _Islamic Association of Legal Courts _and demand satisfaction_.
> _
> Thanks.
> 
> Be sure to cc. us on your transmittal.
Click to expand...

It is frequently called a kangaroo court.

Isn't that the same thing?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the court is illegal, you should forward a relevant YouTube video to the _Islamic Association of Legal Courts _and demand satisfaction_.
> _
> Thanks.
> 
> Be sure to cc. us on your transmittal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is frequently called a kangaroo court.
> 
> Isn't that the same thing?
Click to expand...


It's not your favored sharia court with some loon holding to 7th century norms making decisions. 

Infidel justice rules, Chuckles.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You will need to wait many months before you can push that young girl into the gee-had. 

On the other hand, there is that other pre-teen girl you have quite an infatuation with.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Maen Rashid Areikat- the Palestinian ambassador to Washington*







*So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—*
_
Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state._

*Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?*
_
Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after._

*Q.Spreading anti-semitic blood libels and demanding a Jew-free Palestine is not an apartheid?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Endless superlatives to honor a 
Palestinian killer,
in official PA and Fatah media*

Endless superlatives to honor a Palestinian killer, in official PA and Fatah media - PMW Bulletins

*Abu Jihad, responsible for killing 125 was: 
"A soul that still dwells in our hearts" "a battleship," "great" "unique commander" "fearless," "provided an example of heroism and loyalty" "sacrificed" 
His attacks were:
 "Acts of heroism" "prominent operations" "self-sacrificing operations" "shattered the occupation's mentality" "a school for struggle"
Therefore: 
"This great man should not leave our minds or the consciousness of these great generations" "We draw confidence, a spirit of sacrifice, and a desire to continue the struggle from this magnificent anniversary" 
"His path and history will remain in our hearts forever"*

*And the Student union at Al-Quds Open University held: 
"The Prince of Martyrs Khalil Al-Wazir 'Abu Jihad' Tournament"*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism

These Palestinian terrorists just do not want to stop attacking Israeli soldiers!

So they should stop complaining about getting shot!


----------



## Hollie

*Israeli says 3 Palestinian infiltrators from Gaza killed*

3 Gazans shot dead, 3 arrested, in flurry of border breaches

Israeli troops fatally shot two Palestinians who infiltrated the country from Gaza and attacked soldiers with explosives.


----------



## Hollie

Not a good day for the various Muhammuds.




3 Gazans shot dead, 3 arrested, in flurry of border breaches

In the second incident involving the death of two Palestinians at the same time, the pair reportedly and threw explosive devices at an IDF force.



"Two terrorists who infiltrated into Israel hurled explosive devices" at soldiers Sunday night, an IDF statement said.

At the end of last month, an IDF force arrested three Palestinians armed with knives and grenades after they had infiltrated Israel from the Gaza Strip. The terrorists were caught in the Tze'elim area, about 20 kilometers from the Gaza border near Tze'elim kibbutz.


The captured terrorists at the end of March


----------



## Hollie

IDF thwarts infiltration attempt


----------



## Hollie

Standard practice for retrograde Arabs-Moslems posing as “Pal’Istanians”; use children as disposable objects in the war zone they created.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Frankly , one of Your funniest posts ever.
Some ridiculousness simply can't be taken without a chuckle.

Just wonder what would happen to Sanders once he wore a big Star of David and approached Gaza for everyone to see. 

edit: but then again picturing Sanders with Star of David, however sad - is a joke in itself.


----------



## Ropey

It is all coming together. Isaac and Ishmael will deal with the Medes and the Turks will stay out of it.

The left's dreams in the ME are shattered as well as the Mede's.


----------



## Ropey

One GCC AC-130 attack base

They have literally hundreds.



 



Watch Iran in May. (15+)


----------



## Ropey

The AC-130 Gunships Are Really Bomb Trucks


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly , one of Your funniest posts ever.
> Some ridiculousness simply can't be taken without a chuckle.
> 
> Just wonder what would happen to Sanders once he wore a big Star of David and approached Gaza for everyone to see.
> 
> edit: but then again picturing Sanders with Star of David, however sad - is a joke in itself.
Click to expand...


----------



## Ropey

4 Iranian Jews and a couple of Iranians... and from 2015? And from such a site? You really do get around when you're angry that Jews and Arabs might get along.

It's not what the left want at all.

Neturei Karta: những người Do Thái “hâm” chống lại nhà nước Israel | Sự chuyển đổi Trái đất

It ain't looking good PF.

Just saying.


----------



## Ropey

If people revolt, they’ll throw us to the sea: Iran senior official


----------



## Ropey

Iran, this week.

The basij are being beaten and taken to task by the Iranian people themselves. Iranian girls sneaking into a football stadium dressed as a boys. ‎When bad laws ban women from entering stadiums, Iranian women will not wait for the law to be changed.



From within.

The marxists are not impressed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly , one of Your funniest posts ever.
> Some ridiculousness simply can't be taken without a chuckle.
> 
> Just wonder what would happen to Sanders once he wore a big Star of David and approached Gaza for everyone to see.
> 
> edit: but then again picturing Sanders with Star of David, however sad - is a joke in itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

If You only remotely cared about facts You'd find that:

The umbrella group, comprised of Satmar, Bobov, Belz, Vizhnitz, Munkacz, Kiryas Joel, Monroe, and other communities - many of them openly and sharply critical of Zionism - *termed the PLO sympathizers "evil associates of our enemies."*

The statement continued:

*"...their depiction in the local and international media in religious garb and prayer shawls marching arm-in-arm with Palestinian Jew-haters has besmirched the reputations of hundreds of thousands of decent Orthodox, hareidi and Hassidic Jews worldwide. 
*
Umbrella Group of Orthodox Condemn Hareidi PLO-Sympathizers: Condemnation of Hareidi PLO Sympathizers :: Jewish Media Resources
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, a native Jerusalemite Rabbi:

During the War of Independence in 1948, a number of yeshiva
students came to Rabbi Uziel to obtain exemptions from military service.
He rejected their requests and *said that if he were not already an
old man himself, he would be holding a gun and hand grenade, fighting
to defend the Old City of Jerusalem where he was born and raised.
This was a battle of life and death for the people of Israel. How could
anyone want to be exempted from fighting this great battle?* On the
contrary, each person should rise to the occasion and give strength to
his fellow soldiers. He told the yeshiva students that it was a mitsvah for
them to join in the defense of their people, to risk their lives alongside
their brothers, to defend the Jewish people and the Jewish land. [11]

















If You only cared about facts...
Then again I forget that when it's convenient for You folks, Hamas Jihadis waving a Swastika - magically turn into greatest Jew lovers and highest Jewish authority...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ropey said:


> 4 Iranian Jews and a couple of Iranians... and from 2015? And from such a site? You really do get around when you're angry that Jews and Arabs might get along.
> 
> It's not what the left want at all.
> 
> Neturei Karta: những người Do Thái “hâm” chống lại nhà nước Israel | Sự chuyển đổi Trái đất
> 
> It ain't looking good PF.
> 
> Just saying.


Where do you get the idea that Palestinians hate Jews?

Israeli propaganda bullshit?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4 Iranian Jews and a couple of Iranians... and from 2015? And from such a site? You really do get around when you're angry that Jews and Arabs might get along.
> 
> It's not what the left want at all.
> 
> Neturei Karta: những người Do Thái “hâm” chống lại nhà nước Israel | Sự chuyển đổi Trái đất
> 
> It ain't looking good PF.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the idea that Palestinians hate Jews?
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...


Well really, Chuckles, your Korans are drenched in Jew hatreds. 

Is it coincidence that the Hamas Charter and the PA both celebrate and enjoin the poius Arab-Moslem toward the destruction of Israel and the celebration of Jew killing?


----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4 Iranian Jews and a couple of Iranians... and from 2015? And from such a site? You really do get around when you're angry that Jews and Arabs might get along.
> 
> It's not what the left want at all.
> 
> Neturei Karta: những người Do Thái “hâm” chống lại nhà nước Israel | Sự chuyển đổi Trái đất
> 
> It ain't looking good PF.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the idea that Palestinians hate Jews?
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...

Then why do  you not like the idea of Isaac and Ishmael working together?

Aren't the Palestinians of the tribes of Ishmael?

Hmm?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ghada Karmi at the Edinburgh International Book Festival*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*ICAHD UK 2015 Conference Salma Karmi Ayyoub*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Ghada Karmi opens her take with what she describes as an iconic image.

⇒  The KEY across an open palm.​It is a representation of the keys to the homes they left behind in the initial outbreak of hostilities in 1948. 



P F Tinmore said:


> *Ghada Karmi at the Edinburgh International Book Festival*


*(COMMENT)*

You really need to go no further.  This is a claim on Israeli sovereignty for maybe 60,000 (maybe much less).  You would have to be:

✪  A persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15
May 1948, 
✪  A person who lost both:

•  Home
•  Livelihood ​✪  The lost of each was a direct result of the 1948 conflict.​
Whoever, the territory Dr Ghada Karmi was referring to in the book was not under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinians; and the Jordanians and Egyptians took possession of each respectively.

A war was fought over the issues and the subsequent treaties resolved the sovereignty, which now imposes Israeli Law as it has become a domestic issue.

By the beginning of the nineteenth century, the basic rule concerning the post-War victor _(to the victor goes the spoils)_ had changed considerably; but the right of those victorious in battle to change borders and transfer populations of conquered countries was enshrined in Customary Law, and internationally recognized.

At the conclusion of Great War (WWI) the Senior of the Allied Powers negotiated the Versailles and Lausanne Treaty and forced Axis Powers to accept it. This treaty changed borders of the defeated nations and moved populations. Their right to do so was never really questioned.

Several of the Allied Powers met in San Remo in 1920 to make disposition of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was broken-up into various countries as willed by the Allied Powers. 

The Arab Palestinians and other Arabs refuse to accept that the victorious powers had the right to create the conditions that would ultimately establish The State of Israel through their right of self-determination.  Although the 1948 Israeli War of Independence was fought and the post-War Settlements went through the process of an Armistice and Peace Treaty, the Arab Palestinians are still fighting an insurgency.

Dr Karmi, like so many other Arab Palestinians, are trying to apply future law with decision made prior.  You cannot apply 21st Century law and concepts to 19th century practices.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Ghada Karmi opens her take with what she describes as an iconic image.
> 
> ⇒  The KEY across an open palm.​It is a representation of the keys to the homes they left behind in the initial outbreak of hostilities in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ghada Karmi at the Edinburgh International Book Festival*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You really need to go no further.  This is a claim on Israeli sovereignty for maybe 60,000 (maybe much less).  You would have to be:
> 
> ✪  A persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15
> May 1948,
> ✪  A person who lost both:
> 
> •  Home
> •  Livelihood​✪  The lost of each was a direct result of the 1948 conflict.​
> Whoever, the territory Dr Ghada Karmi was referring to in the book was not under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinians; and the Jordanians and Egyptians took possession of each respectively.
> 
> A war was fought over the issues and the subsequent treaties resolved the sovereignty, which now imposes Israeli Law as it has become a domestic issue.
> 
> By the beginning of the nineteenth century, the basic rule concerning the post-War victor _(to the victor goes the spoils)_ had changed considerably; but the right of those victorious in battle to change borders and transfer populations of conquered countries was enshrined in Customary Law, and internationally recognized.
> 
> At the conclusion of Great War (WWI) the Senior of the Allied Powers negotiated the Versailles and Lausanne Treaty and forced Axis Powers to accept it. This treaty changed borders of the defeated nations and moved populations. Their right to do so was never really questioned.
> 
> Several of the Allied Powers met in San Remo in 1920 to make disposition of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was broken-up into various countries as willed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians and other Arabs refuse to accept that the victorious powers had the right to create the conditions that would ultimately establish The State of Israel through their right of self-determination.  Although the 1948 Israeli War of Independence was fought and the post-War Settlements went through the process of an Armistice and Peace Treaty, the Arab Palestinians are still fighting an insurgency.
> 
> Dr Karmi, like so many other Arab Palestinians, are trying to apply future law with decision made prior.  You cannot apply 21st Century law and concepts to 19th century practices.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the Arab Palestinians are still fighting an insurgency.


Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4 Iranian Jews and a couple of Iranians... and from 2015? And from such a site? You really do get around when you're angry that Jews and Arabs might get along.
> 
> It's not what the left want at all.
> 
> Neturei Karta: những người Do Thái “hâm” chống lại nhà nước Israel | Sự chuyển đổi Trái đất
> 
> It ain't looking good PF.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the idea that Palestinians hate Jews?
> 
> Israeli propaganda bullshit?
Click to expand...

Psalms.

Frankly, seeing how desperately ridiculous You are willing to go to deny the evident -only shows how clear it is. You can only try to fool Yourself.
Then again one could open a whole thread on it and there would be daily updates to prove that from the horse's mouth.

For one, Swastika in one's backyard sends a pretty clear sign. Open calls to go die while murdering Jews doesn't fall short -* You Yourself posted those videos .*


----------



## Mindful

Arab Historian Admits there is No Palestinian People
When the Ottoman rule ended, there was no Palestinian national identity or political borders. It was all made up later. Arabs themselves say so, but the west isn't listening
EN.MIDA.ORG.IL


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Ghada Karmi opens her take with what she describes as an iconic image.
> 
> ⇒  The KEY across an open palm.​It is a representation of the keys to the homes they left behind in the initial outbreak of hostilities in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ghada Karmi at the Edinburgh International Book Festival*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You really need to go no further.  This is a claim on Israeli sovereignty for maybe 60,000 (maybe much less).  You would have to be:
> 
> ✪  A persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15
> May 1948,
> ✪  A person who lost both:
> 
> •  Home
> •  Livelihood​✪  The lost of each was a direct result of the 1948 conflict.​
> Whoever, the territory Dr Ghada Karmi was referring to in the book was not under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinians; and the Jordanians and Egyptians took possession of each respectively.
> 
> A war was fought over the issues and the subsequent treaties resolved the sovereignty, which now imposes Israeli Law as it has become a domestic issue.
> 
> By the beginning of the nineteenth century, the basic rule concerning the post-War victor _(to the victor goes the spoils)_ had changed considerably; but the right of those victorious in battle to change borders and transfer populations of conquered countries was enshrined in Customary Law, and internationally recognized.
> 
> At the conclusion of Great War (WWI) the Senior of the Allied Powers negotiated the Versailles and Lausanne Treaty and forced Axis Powers to accept it. This treaty changed borders of the defeated nations and moved populations. Their right to do so was never really questioned.
> 
> Several of the Allied Powers met in San Remo in 1920 to make disposition of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was broken-up into various countries as willed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians and other Arabs refuse to accept that the victorious powers had the right to create the conditions that would ultimately establish The State of Israel through their right of self-determination.  Although the 1948 Israeli War of Independence was fought and the post-War Settlements went through the process of an Armistice and Peace Treaty, the Arab Palestinians are still fighting an insurgency.
> 
> Dr Karmi, like so many other Arab Palestinians, are trying to apply future law with decision made prior.  You cannot apply 21st Century law and concepts to 19th century practices.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
Click to expand...


You do not understand the terms nationality and territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

No, you get this wrong every single time.

*What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.


*(COMMENT)*

You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.

The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).  

You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.

While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.



P F Tinmore said:


> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?


*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.

*•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
Article 8 (2b) War crimes
(iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*

*•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
*Article 1 *
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
1.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
​ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.


First violence by the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First violence by the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)
Click to expand...


Another staged provocation by the Tamimi tribe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"There are no Palestinians."

Some People did not get Israel's BS memo.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> "There are no Palestinians."
> 
> Some People did not get Israel's BS memo.



This women-men dance is a strange thing. Inappropriate to say the least, and unlikely to be an example of Muslim traditions.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



This is most probably a ripoff of a traditional *Kurdish dance*, done with less enthusiasm...and presented as "Palestinian National dance".

While the real Kurds do it much more groovy...well much more everything..., here's the real thing:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is most probably a ripoff of a traditional *Kurdish dance*, done with less enthusiasm...and presented as "Palestinian National dance".
> 
> While the real Kurds do it much more groovy...well much more everything..., here's the real thing:
Click to expand...

OMG, they are not Palestinian. They are Irish.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is most probably a ripoff of a traditional *Kurdish dance*, done with less enthusiasm...and presented as "Palestinian National dance".
> 
> While the real Kurds do it much more groovy...well much more everything..., here's the real thing:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, they are not Palestinian. They are Irish.
Click to expand...


So, you found some fake video showing Arabs-Moslems dancing.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Are you trying to prove Palestinians have an ancient and /or unique culture?   LOL


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is most probably a ripoff of a traditional *Kurdish dance*, done with less enthusiasm...and presented as "Palestinian National dance".
> 
> While the real Kurds do it much more groovy...well much more everything..., here's the real thing:
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OMG, they are not Palestinian. They are Irish.
Click to expand...


Look if all You've got is going to another continent to show that people tap their feet  elsewhere on a totally different scale and rhythm pattern, then You already show how ridiculous is this rip off.

Yes, what You show as "Palestinian dance" is appropriation of Kurdish music and dance as well. It's no secret that many of the "Palestinians" in Hebron are Kurds, who'd go to their homeland once it's established.







*Kurds of Palestine hoping to connect with home

*
Right of return? Anyone?

The Abbas tribe has a right of return, Tamimi tribe as well, a Kurd, and a Jew - each to his historic homeland.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I watch the video.



P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First violence by the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I saw the Arab Palestinians attempt at an intentional confrontation.  I did not see any IDF.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I watch the video.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the IDF goontards do not like Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First violence by the IDF (Israeli Doofus Force)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I saw the Arab Palestinians attempt at an intentional confrontation.  I did not see any IDF.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I see left wing extremists as well, not only villagers...some "tourists" too.
There's collaboration in many cases between certain European and Israeli NGO's on the ground.
As far as I understand tours aimed at western public are advertised with this as an attraction.

I see this being done in many countries from Russia through Europe and US.
A specific fingerprint of a brand of "demonstrations" that always turns into direct public confrontations.

Each country has it's franchise of antifa like cells who pose as human rights activists but mainly work on the ground to provoke direct confrontations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> No, you get this wrong every single time.
> 
> *What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
> That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.
> 
> While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.
> 
> *•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
> Article 8 (2b) War crimes
> (iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*
> 
> *•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
> *Article 1 *
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> •  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> No, you get this wrong every single time.
> 
> *What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
> That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.
> 
> While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.
> 
> *•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
> Article 8 (2b) War crimes
> (iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*
> 
> *•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
> *Article 1 *
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> •  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
Click to expand...


You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted. 

Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> No, you get this wrong every single time.
> 
> *What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
> That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.
> 
> While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.
> 
> *•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
> Article 8 (2b) War crimes
> (iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*
> 
> *•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
> *Article 1 *
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> •  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.
> 
> Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.


No it hasn't.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> No it hasn't.



Of course it has.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it hasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it has.
Click to expand...

I have seen a lot of smoke blown at it, but specific issues were not addressed.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, I've heard Professor Susan Akram before.  And interpretations such as this is why she teaches law instead of practices law.  As is usual, Article 30 _(of the Lausanne Treaty) (once again)_ is about "nationality" and not "citizenship."  In fact, the Lausanne Treaty does not mention "citizenship; which even Professor Akram agrees is a matter of "Domestic" Law (30:48).  As the Professor says - the international court sees "nationality as the link between an individual and international law" (30:09) _(not a territory)_.

Don't let the language fool up.



P F Tinmore said:


> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00


*(COMMENT)*

But today _(which is relevant today - and not - 75 to 100 years ago)_, the meaning of "Palestine" is legally defined by the Office of the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs.  This is the law and meaning of today and not that of the time of the Balfour Declaration.  The ethno-national character of a people is irrelevant.  It has only been since December 2012 that Palestine became the "State of Palestine."

Trying to mix what you like from the early 20th Century does not always match with 21th Century events and understandings.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, I've heard Professor Susan Akram before.  And interpretations such as this is why she teaches law instead of practices law.  As is usual, Article 30 _(of the Lausanne Treaty) (once again)_ is about "nationality" and not "citizenship."  In fact, the Lausanne Treaty does not mention "citizenship; which even Professor Akram agrees is a matter of "Domestic" Law (30:48).  As the Professor says - the international court sees "nationality as the link between an individual and international law" (30:09) _(not a territory)_.
> 
> Don't let the language fool up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But today _(which is relevant today - and not - 75 to 100 years ago)_, the meaning of "Palestine" is legally defined by the Office of the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs.  This is the law and meaning of today and not that of the time of the Balfour Declaration.  The ethno-national character of a people is irrelevant.  It has only been since December 2012 that Palestine became the "State of Palestine."
> 
> Trying to mix what you like from the early 20th Century does not always match with 21th Century events and understandings.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

She does practice law in refugee and immigration cases.

You need to listen again. You are not reflecting what she said.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

It is all but inevitable that Arab Palestinians who rest their arguments on these obscure arguments hear what they want to hear; and what they need to hear.   The fact of the matter is that the international law, written by the Allied Powers, never favored these Arab Palestinian arguments.  YOU would be foolish to rest YOUR pro-Palestinian arguments on the interpretation that the declarations, conventions, Orders in Council, Mandates and treaties (etc) _(ALL written by the Allied Powers)_ were written to contradict and the decision of the Allied Powers or make the decisions illegal.  While the consequences of the decisions made by the Allied Powers probably did not flower into the grand design they had in mind,  what they did at the time they were doing it was entierly within their authority and power.  It simply does not make any sense that they would intentionally create the conditions legal restrictions that would not favor them.  If that were the case, they would not have written any of these documents at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> She does practice law in refugee and immigration cases.
> 
> You need to listen again. You are not reflecting what she said.


*(COMMENT)*

You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.   You will find that she spent a vast majority of her time as a guest speaker and lecturer.  Her litigation experience of any consequence was a "high profile cases, including the 20+-year litigation of a case of first impression on the interpretation of one of the exclusion bars to asylum."

Having said that, I will recognize that she has a distinguished lecture circuit and speaking engagement series.  But like every single absolute pro-Palestinian lecturer --- she paints the Arab Palestinian cause as whiter-than-white; which nothing ever is.  

Like I have said many times before, the Regional and World leaders are not going to destroy and replace the single most economically successful, the country with the highest human development rating AND the most scientific and engineering savvy in the in the entire Middle East Region, North Africa, and the Eastern Mediterranean → WITH the Arab Palestinians people and leadership that could not organize a successful Girls Scout sleepover Jamarree without it turning into a riot for publicity points as media event.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, I've heard Professor Susan Akram before.  And interpretations such as this is why she teaches law instead of practices law.  As is usual, Article 30 _(of the Lausanne Treaty) (once again)_ is about "nationality" and not "citizenship."  In fact, the Lausanne Treaty does not mention "citizenship; which even Professor Akram agrees is a matter of "Domestic" Law (30:48).  As the Professor says - the international court sees "nationality as the link between an individual and international law" (30:09) _(not a territory)_.
> 
> Don't let the language fool up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But today _(which is relevant today - and not - 75 to 100 years ago)_, the meaning of "Palestine" is legally defined by the Office of the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs.  This is the law and meaning of today and not that of the time of the Balfour Declaration.  The ethno-national character of a people is irrelevant.  It has only been since December 2012 that Palestine became the "State of Palestine."
> 
> Trying to mix what you like from the early 20th Century does not always match with 21th Century events and understandings.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.



*Susan M. Akram *
*Clinical Professor of Law*
BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
JD, Georgetown University
Diplome in International Human Rights,
Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
And I should believe you instead.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, I've heard Professor Susan Akram before.  And interpretations such as this is why she teaches law instead of practices law.  As is usual, Article 30 _(of the Lausanne Treaty) (once again)_ is about "nationality" and not "citizenship."  In fact, the Lausanne Treaty does not mention "citizenship; which even Professor Akram agrees is a matter of "Domestic" Law (30:48).  As the Professor says - the international court sees "nationality as the link between an individual and international law" (30:09) _(not a territory)_.
> 
> Don't let the language fool up.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But today _(which is relevant today - and not - 75 to 100 years ago)_, the meaning of "Palestine" is legally defined by the Office of the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs.  This is the law and meaning of today and not that of the time of the Balfour Declaration.  The ethno-national character of a people is irrelevant.  It has only been since December 2012 that Palestine became the "State of Palestine."
> 
> Trying to mix what you like from the early 20th Century does not always match with 21th Century events and understandings.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Susan M. Akram *
> *Clinical Professor of Law*
> BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
> JD, Georgetown University
> Diplome in International Human Rights,
> Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
> Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
> And I should believe you instead.
Click to expand...


A classic fallacy of appeal to authority. 

Your cut and paste YouTube videos with selected snippets from Susan Akram are not made any more meaningful with a cut and paste resume you probably cut and pasted from YouTube.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it hasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it has.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have seen a lot of smoke blown at it, but specific issues were not addressed.
Click to expand...


Yes. They were.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).


Who has the authority to eliminate a state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> No, you get this wrong every single time.
> 
> *What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
> That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.
> 
> While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.
> 
> *•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
> Article 8 (2b) War crimes
> (iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*
> 
> *•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
> *Article 1 *
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> •  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.
> 
> Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?
Click to expand...

You post videos. So what is your point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> No, you get this wrong every single time.
> 
> *What is NATIONALITY?*_Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed._
> That quality or character which arises from the fact of a person’s belonging to a nation or state. Nationality determines the political status of the individual, especially with reference to allegiance; while domicile determines his civil status. Nationality arises either by birth or by naturalization. According to Savigny, “nationality” is also used as opposed to “territoriality,” for the purpose of distinguishing the case of a nation having no national territory; e. g., the Jews. 8 Sav. Syst.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children are Palestinians. Their nationality ties them to that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> You have this notion, and you WILL NOT, for the life of me, read the official references that explain what "Palestine" means.
> 
> While I don't expect to enlighten you, you should not attempt to corrupt other people with these fanciful notions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting in their own territory is an insurgency?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The State of Israel is an officially recognized state, with the international borders as defined by the Treaties between Jordan, Egypt and the State of Israel.  Any attempt, by the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank, to breach the borders as established by Israel are clear violations of international law.
> 
> *•  Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)  •*
> Article 8 (2b) War crimes
> (iv)  Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; *(Related to the older A/RES/2/110)*
> 
> *•  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression  •*
> *Article 1 *
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> •  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 110 (II). Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war  •
> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This might clear thing up for you. Start @ 28:00
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have cut and pasted that YouTube video many times and it has previously been refuted.
> 
> Do you forget that you tend to spam threads with multiple instances of the same cut and paste YouTube videos?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post videos. So what is your point?
Click to expand...


I understand your reasons for endlessly cutting and pasting the same YouTube videos (it’s a tactic to deflect from taking any responsibility for making an attempt to address the salient points), but doing so when they are indefensible reflects poorly on you and your application for martyrdom.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Susan M. Akram *
> *Clinical Professor of Law*
> BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
> JD, Georgetown University
> Diplome in International Human Rights,
> Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
> Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
> And I should believe you instead.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I gave you that information.  You are not telling me anything new.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You may need to check Prof Akram Bio history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Susan M. Akram *
> *Clinical Professor of Law*
> BA with honors, University of Michigan Ann Arbor
> JD, Georgetown University
> Diplome in International Human Rights,
> Institut International des Droits de l’Homme, Strasbourg (France)
> Masters of Studies, International Human Rights Law, University of Oxford​
> And I should believe you instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I gave you that information.  You are not telling me anything new.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What part of all that verbosity refuted anything she said?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

OFF-TOPIC:  Those that can create something, can also alter that something.  In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.

We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire _(to the Allied Powers)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the authority to eliminate a state?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are asking for something that does not exist _[authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]_.  Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force.  From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> OFF-TOPIC:  Those that can create something, can also alter that something.  In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.
> 
> We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire _(to the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the authority to eliminate a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are asking for something that does not exist _[authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]_.  Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force.  From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Instead of blowing smoke at it just answer the question.

Who has the authority to eliminate a state?​
According to the UN Charter, nobody.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire


The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I believe I said that...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> OFF-TOPIC:  Those that can create something, can also alter that something.  In the topic under discussion, we are talking about the dismemberment and disposition of segments within the collapsing Ottoman Empire.
> 
> We are talking about the capacity of Allied Powers, in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire _(to the Allied Powers)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get your nationality from your nation or state of citizenship.
> 
> The Palestine of today is not the Palestine (the entity) of pre-May 15th 1948, or that immediately after 15 May 1948 (the entity).
> 
> 
> 
> Who has the authority to eliminate a state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are asking for something that does not exist _[authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]_.  Throughout history, the destruction of nation states and creation of states or autonomous territories has generally been the result of marriages between monarch families and those established through brute force.  From a time before the destruction of Carthage into contemporary times in the breakup of the Former Yugoslavia into the Autonomous Provinces of Vojvodina and Kosovo, and the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Slovenia.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Instead of blowing smoke at it just answer the question.
> 
> Who has the authority to eliminate a state?​
> According to the UN Charter, nobody.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

  First sentence of "Comment to Post #2967.  "You are asking for something that does not exist _[authority to eliminate (destroy) a state]_."

But with you, I never know where you are going with such *ridiculous* question.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is one of your greatest stratagies.  "Make it up as you go along."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Article 16 says nothing of the kind. 

*ARTICLE 16*.

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
That would be to the Allied Parties.

In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).

For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--







 (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.






 (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest stratagies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How can you be so confused by simple language?
---------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
--------------------
And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
--------------------
The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
Where do you get confused?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Co-produced by Pallywood Studios?


----------



## Hollie

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism

Yesterday morning, Palestinian terrorists fired a rocket from Gaza into Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest stratagies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
Click to expand...


It really is remarkable that you continue to cut and paste these out of context snippets.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.



Incitement to violence is a crime outside of Islamic terrorist enclaves.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.



What love?

She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.

Charles Manson wrote "poetry" as well...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
Click to expand...

That is what Israel says.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel says.
Click to expand...

No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:

It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.

It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

There is no confusion on my part.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest strategies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You simply do not know what territory was transferred since the Treaty was not written to exclusively cover the Middle East. 

Second, you totally ignore Article 16.

Third, you somehow believe that the Allied Powers would write a treaty, after the fact, that would invalidate what they had already done.

The Allied Powers wrote the treaty, they understood what the treaty meant and they wrote the treaty that would cover what they had already started.  But the reality is, that no one is going to go backward in time and tell the Allied Powers that they were wrong in their interpretation of what they wrote.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:
> 
> It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
> It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.
> 
> It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:
> 
> It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
> It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.
> 
> It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Incitement to illegal acts carries consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> There is no confusion on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest strategies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You simply do not know what territory was transferred since the Treaty was not written to exclusively cover the Middle East.
> 
> Second, you totally ignore Article 16.
> 
> Third, you somehow believe that the Allied Powers would write a treaty, after the fact, that would invalidate what they had already done.
> 
> The Allied Powers wrote the treaty, they understood what the treaty meant and they wrote the treaty that would cover what they had already started.  But the reality is, that no one is going to go backward in time and tell the Allied Powers that they were wrong in their interpretation of what they wrote.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are looking at this through Israel colored glasses. That is why your view is so distorted. My post also matches article 22 of the LoN Covenant.

Why do you try to monkey motion around something so obvious?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Poet Behind Bars, by #DareenTatour Translated by Tariq al Haydar In prison, I met people too numerous to count: Killer and criminal, thief and liar, the honest and those who disbelieve, the lost and confused, the wretched and the hungry. Then, the sick of my homeland, born out of pain, refused to go along with injustice until they became children whose innocence was violated. The world’s compulsion left them stunned. They grew older. No, their sadness grew, strengthening with repression, like roses in salted soil. They embraced love without fear, and were condemned for declaring, “We love the land endlessly,” oblivious to their deeds… So their love freed them. See, prison is for lovers. I interrogated my soul during moments of doubt and distraction: “What of your crime?” Its meaning escapes me now. I said the thing and revealed my thoughts; I wrote about the current injustice, wishes in ink, a poem I wrote... The charge has worn my body, from my toes to the top of my head, for I am a poet in prison, a poet in the land of art. I am accused of words, my pen the instrument. Ink— blood of the heart— bears witness and reads the charges. Listen, my destiny, my life, to what the judge said: A poem stands accused, my poem morphs into a crime. In the land of freedom, the artist’s fate is prison. Written on November 2, 2015, Jelemeh Prison, the day I received the indictment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:
> 
> It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
> It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.
> 
> It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incitement to illegal acts carries consequences.
Click to expand...

What did she say that is incitement?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:
> 
> It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
> It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.
> 
> It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incitement to illegal acts carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that is incitement?
Click to expand...

No amount of kitten faced deception is enough to mask the evident.

She called for people to become Jihadi martyrs to oppose any peaceful solution.
She herself wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

If it was so obvious, then why did the Allied Powers that wrote the covenant, do something so very different?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> There is no confusion on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest strategies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You simply do not know what territory was transferred since the Treaty was not written to exclusively cover the Middle East.
> 
> Second, you totally ignore Article 16.
> 
> Third, you somehow believe that the Allied Powers would write a treaty, after the fact, that would invalidate what they had already done.
> 
> The Allied Powers wrote the treaty, they understood what the treaty meant and they wrote the treaty that would cover what they had already started.  But the reality is, that no one is going to go backward in time and tell the Allied Powers that they were wrong in their interpretation of what they wrote.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are looking at this through Israel colored glasses. That is why your view is so distorted. My post also matches article 22 of the LoN Covenant.
> 
> Why do you try to monkey motion around something so obvious?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The fact that they did something different is a demonstration of their original intent. 

There were several reasons that the Allied Powers did something different.  But the basic reason is that they had the intention to create a Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> What love?
> 
> She wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr and openly incited others to do so.
> Was denied that privilege, caught beforehand - now she writes about "love" from her cell in the jail.
> 
> Charles Manson wrote poetry as well...
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No amount of "Jihadi love" poems are enough to hide the evident:
> 
> It was her who posted _"I want to be the next martyr"_, not Israel.
> It was her who wrote _"follow the caravans of martyrs"_,_ "resist the peaceful solution"_ - not Israel.
> 
> It was You, not Israel, who posted Palestinian videos of open calls to go murder Jews and go die together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Incitement to illegal acts carries consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did she say that is incitement?
Click to expand...


You are welcome to play that foolish game with someone else.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> There is no confusion on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest strategies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the capacity of the executor of the territories in which all title and rights had been renounced by the Ottoman Empire
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You simply do not know what territory was transferred since the Treaty was not written to exclusively cover the Middle East.
> 
> Second, you totally ignore Article 16.
> 
> Third, you somehow believe that the Allied Powers would write a treaty, after the fact, that would invalidate what they had already done.
> 
> The Allied Powers wrote the treaty, they understood what the treaty meant and they wrote the treaty that would cover what they had already started.  But the reality is, that no one is going to go backward in time and tell the Allied Powers that they were wrong in their interpretation of what they wrote.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are looking at this through Israel colored glasses. That is why your view is so distorted. My post also matches article 22 of the LoN Covenant.
> 
> Why do you try to monkey motion around something so obvious?
Click to expand...


Doesn't your lack of a supportable argument suggest that you are the one needing new glasses?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> If it was so obvious, then why did the Allied Powers that wrote the covenant, do something so very different?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> There is no confusion on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is one of your greatest strategies.  "Make it up as you go along."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The title and rights went straight to the Palestinians. Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Article 16 says nothing of the kind.
> 
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> That would be to the Allied Parties.
> 
> In that period of time, "Palestine" was the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies (AKA Palestine).
> For the purposes of this Order and pending the introduction of an Order in Council regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​
> A "Palestinian" was --- whoever the Mandatory says.  YOU don't get to choose.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be so confused by simple language?
> ---------------------
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions *laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”*​
> --------------------
> And what state was that territory transferred to? Who got that citizenship?
> --------------------
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​------------------
> Where do you get confused?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You simply do not know what territory was transferred since the Treaty was not written to exclusively cover the Middle East.
> 
> Second, you totally ignore Article 16.
> 
> Third, you somehow believe that the Allied Powers would write a treaty, after the fact, that would invalidate what they had already done.
> 
> The Allied Powers wrote the treaty, they understood what the treaty meant and they wrote the treaty that would cover what they had already started.  But the reality is, that no one is going to go backward in time and tell the Allied Powers that they were wrong in their interpretation of what they wrote.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are looking at this through Israel colored glasses. That is why your view is so distorted. My post also matches article 22 of the LoN Covenant.
> 
> Why do you try to monkey motion around something so obvious?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The fact that they did something different is a demonstration of their original intent.
> 
> There were several reasons that the Allied Powers did something different.  But the basic reason is that they had the intention to create a Jewish National Home.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani, "Developing New Practices to Advance Migrant Justice"*

**


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>





- no one stole arafat & hamasses' land
- israel is israel.....(for thousands of years)
- and with the exception of maybe JORDAN...the only 2 NORMAL countries out there in_ HaLaL_aLaLand...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)



P F Tinmore said:


> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.


*(COMMENT)*

Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.

My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.

No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.
> 
> My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.
> 
> No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




he's.....busy



_but he knows_ -- _*["the facts are"*_] terrorists make for a baaaad "own state."

..............................


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli government threatens Jaffa theater over solidarity event for Dareen Tatour*

Israeli “intelligence” agents wrongly translated the text over the picture as a declaration that Tatour intended to carry out a suicide attack. Her house was surrounded at a pre-dawn raid by a big force of Israeli police and border guards, and she was arrested. During Tatour’s first interrogation police told her that she wrote that she wants to be a martyr (“shahida” in Arabic). Soon the authorities understood their language mistake, but they would not apologize and let their victim go free. 

Israeli government threatens Jaffa theater over solidarity event for Dareen Tatour


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The trials of Dareen Tatour: racism, negligence, and the G4S connection*

In the late afternoon of July 26, 2016, Dareen Tatour briefly found herself a free woman. For a fleeting, puzzling hour and a half, the young Palestinian poet who is being aggressively prosecuted by the State of Israel for “incitement to violence” found herself standing alone by the side of the road outside Damon prison.

The trials of Dareen Tatour: racism, negligence, and the G4S connection


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The trials of Dareen Tatour: racism, negligence, and the G4S connection*
> 
> In the late afternoon of July 26, 2016, Dareen Tatour briefly found herself a free woman. For a fleeting, puzzling hour and a half, the young Palestinian poet who is being aggressively prosecuted by the State of Israel for “incitement to violence” found herself standing alone by the side of the road outside Damon prison.
> 
> The trials of Dareen Tatour: racism, negligence, and the G4S connection



Incitement to violence carries consequences, at least outside of your Islamic terrorist enclaves.

But, how lucky for you that she’s available as a propaganda tool for your Jew hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.
> 
> My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.
> 
> No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory).


No I don't. It is just that you interpret article 16 differently than I do. I don't see them as being at odds with each other.

Article 16 and 30, article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the 1925 Citizenship Order, along with what Dr. Akram said about Resolution 181 all fit in with the legal framework.

You just don't *want *to see that.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.
> 
> My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.
> 
> No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. It is just that you interpret article 16 differently than I do. I don't see them as being at odds with each other.
> 
> Article 16 and 30, article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the 1925 Citizenship Order, along with what Dr. Akram said about Resolution 181 all fit in with the legal framework.
> 
> You just don't *want *to see that.
Click to expand...


You make the mistake of believing everything you watch on YouTube is accurate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.
> 
> My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.
> 
> No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. It is just that you interpret article 16 differently than I do. I don't see them as being at odds with each other.
> 
> Article 16 and 30, article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the 1925 Citizenship Order, along with what Dr. Akram said about Resolution 181 all fit in with the legal framework.
> 
> You just don't *want *to see that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make the mistake of believing everything you watch on YouTube is accurate.
Click to expand...

From someone who just posted an Israeli propaganda Youtube.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  They had effective control of a civil administration through a Mandate after the parties to a Treaty of Peace _(AKA The Allied Powers)_ came into possession of the Rights and Title to the territory _(one of many territories)_ renounced by the Turkish Republic. (Article 16)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those people had no sovereignty over that territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your argument all along has been that the Allied Powers did NOT have the authority over the territory. → AND → You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory). → AND → Your position is that the people formerly under the effective control of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) _(emphasis on the word "_Enemy_")_ somehow came into a superior authority, after hostilities ended, in comparison to that of the victors over the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republics.
> 
> My argumentative is in direct opposition.  I take the position:   In that historical time period, the Allied Powers won the war and became the decision making power and authority.
> 
> No matter how many witnesses you bring forth that sheds alligator tears frequently or readily over the history of the Arab Palestinians in the last century, the facts are, that what happened to support the idea that the Allied Powers had every intent and every authority to do what they did; and as authors of both the intent and authority, they had the right to the meaning of the international agreements.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have consistently argued that Article 30 (Nationality) is overriding Article 16 (Territory).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I don't. It is just that you interpret article 16 differently than I do. I don't see them as being at odds with each other.
> 
> Article 16 and 30, article 22 of the LoN Covenant, the 1925 Citizenship Order, along with what Dr. Akram said about Resolution 181 all fit in with the legal framework.
> 
> You just don't *want *to see that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make the mistake of believing everything you watch on YouTube is accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From someone who just posted an Israeli propaganda Youtube.
Click to expand...


You sweepingly miss the point. Pallywood Propaganda has become synonymous with cartoonish attempts at bad acting and malicious attempts to deceive. Your heroes have become caricatures of pompous fools. How does it feel to flail your Pom Poms for bad actors who are derided by the relevant first world as a laughable joke?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

What Gaza violence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi*

**


----------



## Hollie

Send in the clowns.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rehab Nazzal, "Aerial Colonialism and the Struggle of Civilians on the Ground”*

**


----------



## Hollie

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism

A Palestinian journalist who was killed during a riot at the Israel-Gaza Strip border was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a US-designated terrorist group, a new report revealed.


----------



## Hollie

MAY 3, 2018 4:25 PM

*Will Israel Pass a Law to Offset ‘Pay-to-Slay’ Stipends to Jailed Palestinian Terrorists?*

Will Israel Pass a Law to Offset ‘Pay-to-Slay’ Stipends to Jailed Palestinian Terrorists?




The Israeli Knesset building. Photo: Wikimedia Commons.

JNS.org – Knesset members are currently advancing competing laws to serve as the equivalent to America’s Taylor Force Act, which sanctions the Palestinian Authority (PA)’s “pay-to-slay” policy of providing terrorists and their families with official stipends for the murder of Jews.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has praised America’s passing of the act, named after 28-year-old US military veteran Taylor Force, who –following tours in Iraq and Afghanistan — was killed in a Tel Aviv terror attack in March 2016.

Yet Israel continues to transfer approximately NIS 600 million ($170 million) per month to the PA —  without any sanctions — as part of a tax-collection arrangement brokered during the signing of the 1993 Oslo Accords. Under this agreement, Israel collects and transfers import duties at Israeli ports on behalf of the PA.

Each year, Israel transfers NIS 8.5 billion (more than $2.4 billion) in tax payments. The PA budget this year is NIS 18.5 billion ($5.2 billion).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism
> 
> A Palestinian journalist who was killed during a riot at the Israel-Gaza Strip border was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a US-designated terrorist group, a new report revealed.


You still can't shoot unarmed protestors.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism
> 
> A Palestinian journalist who was killed during a riot at the Israel-Gaza Strip border was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a US-designated terrorist group, a new report revealed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still can't shoot unarmed protestors.
Click to expand...


You can when violent, armed Islamic retrogrades are, you know, violent, armed Islamic retrogrades.


----------



## Hollie

Three more fro the Hamas Dead Pool.



Three More Palestinians Shot Dead at Gaza Border - Israeli Military

TEL AVIV (Sputnik) - Israeli servicemen killed three Palestinians, who entered or attempted to enter the territory of Israel from the Gaza Strip, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) said.

"A short while ago, 2 suspects attempted to infiltrate Israel from the southern Gaza Strip and damage the security fence… IDF troops fired towards them. One of the suspects was killed," the IDF posted on Twitter Sunday.








© AP PHOTO / ADEL HANA
Palestine Official Slams Hamas for 'Sending Children’ to Gaza Protests
The Israeli forces later killed "two [more] terrorists who infiltrated into Israel [and] hurled explosive devices at IDF soldiers."


Over the past month, Israeli soldiers have killed almost 50 Palestinians on the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip, including most aggressive participants of mass demonstrations, dubbed the Great March of Return. The Israeli forces explain their actions by the need to protect the state border. The country's authorities have denied accusations of excessive use of force and ignored calls for an international investigation into what many see as bloodshed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Oh my. Those "_poor, oppressed Pal'istanians_" are suffering the indignity of Facebook choosing not to be an accomplice to Arab-Moslem incitement. 


*Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis*

*Journalists and activists accuse the social media giant of 'waging war on the Palestinians,' Israel has long accused it of not doing enough to combat incitement*

Palestinians slam Facebook for removing pages glorifying attacks on Israelis

Palestinian activists and journalists on Monday launched a campaign to protest against Facebook after the social media giant removed dozens of pages in recent weeks, saying they incited and glorified terrorism.

“Facebook is waging war on the Palestinians,” the activists and journalists complained in a statement as they launched a Twitter hashtag entitled “#FBfightsPalestine” to protest the Facebook measures.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Solidarity for Ahed Tamimi in South Lebanon*

Activists come together in Lebanon to raise awareness of children’s rights, specifically in support of the Palestinian human rights icon, Ahed Tamimi

*




*

*Solidarity for Ahed Tamimi in South Lebanon*


----------



## Hollie

IDF: Hamas cynically sent 7-year-old girl to breach Gaza border

*Army denounces terrorist group for using women, children in violent mass protests along security fence*
By JUDAH ARI GROSS30 March 2018, 5:27 pm  6


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

American codepink activist stands up in the face of the Israeli ambassador to the USA in #NewYork reminding the world that Israel is a world criminal.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=palestinian terrorism


A Palestinian journalist who was killed during a riot at the Israel-Gaza Strip border was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a US-designated terrorist group, a new report revealed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nida’ AbuBaker


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Mindful

"The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."




The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM


This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM
> 
> 
> 
> This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.
Click to expand...



Don't bother.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christians in Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

Jews  were Palestinians during the Mandate.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM
> 
> 
> 
> This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.
Click to expand...


Speaking of falsehoods, you might want to read the PLO Charter to see what Arabs-Moslems have to say. As a spokesbeard for arab’ism, you’re a bit out of touch.

*The Original Palestine National Charter (1964)

Article 1.* Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.


Wow! Article 1of the Charter and we were Arab’ed three times in one sentence. Article 1 doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for non-Islamics/Arabs.  

Your spokes-beard’ship needs some work.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM
> 
> 
> 
> This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of falsehoods, you might want to read the PLO Charter to see what Arabs-Moslems have to say. As a spokesbeard for arab’ism, you’re a bit out of touch.
> 
> *The Original Palestine National Charter (1964)
> 
> Article 1.* Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.
> 
> 
> Wow! Article 1of the Charter and we were Arab’ed three times in one sentence. Article 1 doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for non-Islamics/Arabs.
> 
> Your spokes-beard’ship needs some work.
Click to expand...

Of course Christians were always considered part of Palestine. You left out the part about the acceptance of the Jews.

*Article 7.​*Jews of Palestinian origin are considered Palestinians if they are willing to live peacefully and loyally in Palestine.​
Palestine, unlike Israel, was all inclusive.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM
> 
> 
> 
> This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of falsehoods, you might want to read the PLO Charter to see what Arabs-Moslems have to say. As a spokesbeard for arab’ism, you’re a bit out of touch.
> 
> *The Original Palestine National Charter (1964)
> 
> Article 1.* Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.
> 
> 
> Wow! Article 1of the Charter and we were Arab’ed three times in one sentence. Article 1 doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for non-Islamics/Arabs.
> 
> Your spokes-beard’ship needs some work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course Christians were always considered part of Palestine. You left out the part about the acceptance of the Jews.
> 
> *Article 7.*
> Jews of Palestinian origin are considered Palestinians if they are willing to live peacefully and loyally in Palestine.​
> Palestine, unlike Israel, was all inclusive.
Click to expand...


Taqiyya won't help you here. At no time in islamist history have Jews or Christians been considered as equals to islamics.

Do a search using the terms "dhimmitude" and "Ottoman Turks" as it was practiced in the territory of Palestine.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The truth remains that the native Arab population in Palestine was relatively small before the first Jewish settlers made it an attractive and prosperous place."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Myth of Palestinian Indigeneity
> The British encouraged mass Arab immigration to Mandatory Palestine.
> MOSAICMAGAZINE.COM
> 
> 
> 
> This guy tries to narrow palestinians down to Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were not here until blah, blah, blah. The Muslims were not here until blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Palestine has been continuously inhabited by a variety of people from different religions and ethnic backgrounds. Trying to narrow this down only gives a false history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of falsehoods, you might want to read the PLO Charter to see what Arabs-Moslems have to say. As a spokesbeard for arab’ism, you’re a bit out of touch.
> 
> *The Original Palestine National Charter (1964)
> 
> Article 1.* Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the large Arab homeland.
> 
> 
> Wow! Article 1of the Charter and we were Arab’ed three times in one sentence. Article 1 doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for non-Islamics/Arabs.
> 
> Your spokes-beard’ship needs some work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course Christians were always considered part of Palestine. You left out the part about the acceptance of the Jews.
> 
> *Article 7.*
> Jews of Palestinian origin are considered Palestinians if they are willing to live peacefully and loyally in Palestine.​
> Palestine, unlike Israel, was all inclusive.
Click to expand...


They did package holidays?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Angry islamics and a sound bite to rant about Jews. 

It's what makes the Islamo-universe go'round.


MEMRI TV Clip 6533: Al-Jazeera TV Host Jamal Rayyan Supports Hamas, Islamic Jihad: The Foreigners Will Go Back to Where They Came From

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

Al-Jazeera TV host Jamal Rayyan said that "the Zionist entity is a foreign body on Palestinian and Arab land" and that like the sea, Palestine "will spew out that which is foreign." "They will go back to where they came from," he said. Rayyan posted the video of his statements on YouTube on March 27.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ahed Tamimi. One story, multiple months in jail.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Ahed Tamimi. One story, multiple months in jail.


Israel was up a tree with Amed. They could not let her go without losing their dominance. They could not throw the book at her like many Israelis wanted because the world is watching. So they gave her a few months in hopes that it will blow over. But it won't.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi. One story, multiple months in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was up a tree with Amed. They could not let her go without losing their dominance. They could not throw the book at her like many Israelis wanted because the world is watching. So they gave her a few months in hopes that it will blow over. But it won't.
Click to expand...


Celebrities? 

Well, that changes everything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Watch Ahed Tamimi speech at the role of the women in the Palestinians struggle conference. *

**


----------



## Hollie

What an actor.

Does Mahmoud "_Dictator for Life_" Abbas have a spare AK-47 to loan?




Jordanian MP Yahya Al-Saud Incites to Violence at the Palestinian National Council Session: I Am a Slave to Whoever Teaches Me the Path of Martyrdom

*JORDANIAN MP YAHYA AL-SAUD INCITES TO VIOLENCE AT THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL COUNCIL SESSION: I AM A SLAVE TO WHOEVER TEACHES ME THE PATH OF MARTYRDOM*
May 01, 2018


----------



## P F Tinmore

*AHED TAMIMI - The Symbol of Struggle for Human Rights in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

Time to reflect and contemplate.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Here we have the pinnacle of young Islamic terrorist manhood. 




MEMRI TV Clip No. 6532: Gaza Activists Use 'Firebomb Kites' To Set Fire To Israeli Fields And Houses: Hundreds Of Kites Will Be Flown Toward The Enemies

MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'


To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.

Various sources reported on the activity of the "Sons of Zouari" unit, which uses burning kites to fly over the border and set fire to Israeli fields. In an April 18 report, Al-Jazeera interviewed an activist, who, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, threatened: "Not dozens but hundreds of kites will be flown toward the enemies, burning their crops, and causing them confusion and panic, Allah willing." The Wattan News Agency, in an April 20 report, interviewed a masked activist, who explained how they prepared the kites, which are "just like the ones kids fly on the beach," but used "for something more important - as a Molotov cocktail." The report included footage showing the activists set fire to the kites and fly them, as people, including children, milled around. Mohamed Zouari was a Tunisian engineer with the Al-Qassam Brigades, who supervised the unmanned aircraft manufacturing program of Hamas, before his assassination in December 2016 in Sfax, Tunisia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Here we have the pinnacle of young Islamic terrorist manhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEMRI TV Clip No. 6532: Gaza Activists Use 'Firebomb Kites' To Set Fire To Israeli Fields And Houses: Hundreds Of Kites Will Be Flown Toward The Enemies
> 
> MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'
> 
> 
> To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.
> 
> Various sources reported on the activity of the "Sons of Zouari" unit, which uses burning kites to fly over the border and set fire to Israeli fields. In an April 18 report, Al-Jazeera interviewed an activist, who, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, threatened: "Not dozens but hundreds of kites will be flown toward the enemies, burning their crops, and causing them confusion and panic, Allah willing." The Wattan News Agency, in an April 20 report, interviewed a masked activist, who explained how they prepared the kites, which are "just like the ones kids fly on the beach," but used "for something more important - as a Molotov cocktail." The report included footage showing the activists set fire to the kites and fly them, as people, including children, milled around. Mohamed Zouari was a Tunisian engineer with the Al-Qassam Brigades, who supervised the unmanned aircraft manufacturing program of Hamas, before his assassination in December 2016 in Sfax, Tunisia.


PA President Mahmoud Abbas: Holocaust, Massacres of European Jews Due to Their Function in Society as Usurers; Hitler Struck a Deal with the Jews


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have the pinnacle of young Islamic terrorist manhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEMRI TV Clip No. 6532: Gaza Activists Use 'Firebomb Kites' To Set Fire To Israeli Fields And Houses: Hundreds Of Kites Will Be Flown Toward The Enemies
> 
> MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'
> 
> 
> To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.
> 
> Various sources reported on the activity of the "Sons of Zouari" unit, which uses burning kites to fly over the border and set fire to Israeli fields. In an April 18 report, Al-Jazeera interviewed an activist, who, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, threatened: "Not dozens but hundreds of kites will be flown toward the enemies, burning their crops, and causing them confusion and panic, Allah willing." The Wattan News Agency, in an April 20 report, interviewed a masked activist, who explained how they prepared the kites, which are "just like the ones kids fly on the beach," but used "for something more important - as a Molotov cocktail." The report included footage showing the activists set fire to the kites and fly them, as people, including children, milled around. Mohamed Zouari was a Tunisian engineer with the Al-Qassam Brigades, who supervised the unmanned aircraft manufacturing program of Hamas, before his assassination in December 2016 in Sfax, Tunisia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA President Mahmoud Abbas: Holocaust, Massacres of European Jews Due to Their Function in Society as Usurers; Hitler Struck a Deal with the Jews
Click to expand...


I would expect nothing more from your hero.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have the pinnacle of young Islamic terrorist manhood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEMRI TV Clip No. 6532: Gaza Activists Use 'Firebomb Kites' To Set Fire To Israeli Fields And Houses: Hundreds Of Kites Will Be Flown Toward The Enemies
> 
> MEMRI TV Clips Of Gaza 'Return March'
> 
> 
> To view this clip on MEMRI TV, click here.
> 
> Various sources reported on the activity of the "Sons of Zouari" unit, which uses burning kites to fly over the border and set fire to Israeli fields. In an April 18 report, Al-Jazeera interviewed an activist, who, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, threatened: "Not dozens but hundreds of kites will be flown toward the enemies, burning their crops, and causing them confusion and panic, Allah willing." The Wattan News Agency, in an April 20 report, interviewed a masked activist, who explained how they prepared the kites, which are "just like the ones kids fly on the beach," but used "for something more important - as a Molotov cocktail." The report included footage showing the activists set fire to the kites and fly them, as people, including children, milled around. Mohamed Zouari was a Tunisian engineer with the Al-Qassam Brigades, who supervised the unmanned aircraft manufacturing program of Hamas, before his assassination in December 2016 in Sfax, Tunisia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA President Mahmoud Abbas: Holocaust, Massacres of European Jews Due to Their Function in Society as Usurers; Hitler Struck a Deal with the Jews
Click to expand...

First he said there was no Holocaust and now he says the Jews deserved it, and some consider him to be a moderate.  The only difference between the the Judea and Samaria and Gaza is that the IDF operates in Judea and Samaria.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli soldiers attacked the procession in bil'in, hurt operations in Germany-imemc*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Silencing dissent on campus: the case of Israeli Apartheid Week" - Rafeef Ziadeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine solidarity : Israel Apartheid week*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Lobby tries to shutdown Israel Apartheid Week*

**


----------



## Hollie

*

Abbas honors mother of 5 terrorists, *
*including 2 murderers*

Abbas honors mother of 5 terrorists, including 2 murderers - PMW Bulletins

*Fatah official: "A precious, mighty, and beloved woman...*
*We consider her children entrusted to us"*






By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

In keeping with Palestinian Authority policy to honor terrorists and glorify terrorist attacks, PA Chairman Abbas himself met with Um Nasser Abu Hmeid - a Palestinian woman who is famous and admired in the PA for being the mother of 4 terrorist prisoners serving multiple life sentences. In total they are serving 18 life sentences for murdering 8 people and carrying out numerous terror attacks. The PA refers to her fifth son, a terrorist who was killed by Israel, as "a Martyr."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



“Heavenly Gee-Had”.  What a lovely name. 

Your creepy fascination with female children is disturbing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Look, the video shows You clearly the main with civilian vehicles parking on the side as the Tamimis attempt to bring their "demonstration" (of rock aiming)  down the hill to that road. That's the destination of every violent confrontation like that. 

Then the video shows a civilian bus attempting to move a bit down the road while the army police is making cover bringing the stone throwers further away. This road is the goal of 99% of the Nabi Saleh demonstrations.


----------



## rylah

And in anyway, Tamimis have a whole country of their own in the Gulf, 
but in Judea Samaria - *they're the settlers!*
**








*Tribes of Arabia - Tamimi
*
The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

*Dynasties[edit]*

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
Al Khater – a prestigious family of the middle east based primarily in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek

*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Smile Pal'istanians


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Shirley Temper. A life of child abuse by Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



 well, they did what had to be done. "closing" that treacherous, dangerous [what shouldn't be there] terrorist tunnel that the terrorists built to sneak God-knows-what-thru.  they can't "build up" ? ...always building down....underground.  sneaking on their bellies like... slithering snakes...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

HAMAS CLERIC AND TV HOST IYAD ABU FUNUN: WE MUST RETURN TO OUR LAND BY ALL MEANS - INCLUDING BOMBS AND EXPLOSIVE BELTS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Islamic terrorism is a family matter, passed from generation to generation.

What lovely folks.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


All that name calling. 

Must be an Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All that name calling.
> 
> Must be an Israeli propaganda site.
Click to expand...


All that whining. 

Must be P F Tinmore


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


2???

What about the thousands of Palestinians? Why don't you ever mention them?


----------



## Hollie

*GAZA FRIDAY SERMON: ALLAH HAS CHOSEN US TO FIGHT THE "CORRUPT AND CORRUPTING" JEWS, SLAYERS OF THE PROPHETS - SCENES FROM GAZA "RETURN MARCH"*
MEMRI

May 11, 2018
*Gaza Friday Sermon: Allah Has Chosen Us to Fight the "Corrupt and Corrupting" Jews, Slayers of the Prophets - Scenes from Gaza "Return March"*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Gotta play the terrorist card.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh please.  He has SOME nerve discussing "deepening the resentment" and "atmosphere of hatred" instead of "moving toward peace".  

This is ridiculous.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Can't wait til Nikki Haley gets her hands on this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait til Nikki Haley gets her hands on this.
Click to expand...

I can't wait for ol' blabbermouth to take him apart. 

I hope they post it on Youtube.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait til Nikki Haley gets her hands on this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can't wait for ol' blabbermouth to take him apart.
> 
> I hope they post it on Youtube.
Click to expand...


Nervous laughter is a great picture of victory.
You seem to win a lot lately.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Isn't that a spokesman of PA, which You claim to be illegitimate?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



We of course know Saudis are big fans.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta play the terrorist card.
Click to expand...


Got ya' reduced to your usual cartoons.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel, Anti-Semitism, and Negotiations Without End*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel, Anti-Semitism, and Negotiations Without End*
> 
> **



Your frenzied YouTube cut and paste gee-had is a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abun Dbashmayo - ابون دبشمايو (Cover by Lina Sleibi *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




"We teach life"


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-moslems. Making the world horrible, every day of their miserable lives.


*Palestinians Trying to Breach Border as US Opens Jerusalem Embassy*
BY PESACH BENSON MAY 14, 2018



A composite image of Palestinian protesters along the Gaza border on May 4 and Jerusalem municipality worker hangs an American and Israeli flags near the US consulate in Jerusalem on May 7, 2018. Photos by Wissam Nassar/Flash90 and Yonatan Sindel/Flash90 respectively.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Randa Abdel-Fattah*


----------



## Hollie

Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons

*SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL MAHMOUD AL-ZAHHAR ON GAZA PROTESTS: THIS IS NOT PEACEFUL RESISTANCE, IT IS SUPPORTED BY OUR WEAPONS
May 13, 2018

Twitter*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israeli territory? When did that happen?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory? When did that happen?
Click to expand...


Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

Frantic monkeys.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...

I did. I couldn't find it.

That's why you ducked.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. I couldn't find it.
> 
> That's why you ducked.
Click to expand...


Your usual duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. I couldn't find it.
> 
> That's why you ducked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual duck.
Click to expand...

Duck is your middle name. You parry every question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory? When did that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did. I couldn't find it.
> 
> That's why you ducked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duck is your middle name. You parry every question.
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


World Jewish Congress video.

Nope, no bias here.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> World Jewish Congress video.
> 
> Nope, no bias here.
Click to expand...


BIAS- is when it's ok for You to post videos of Gazans inciting to murder Jews and commit suicide, 
but whine when Jews are not playing to the tune of Your Jihadis heroes.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yeah because when they openly incite to go murder Jews it merely an ice-cream ad.
And because shooting at soldiers is not provoking a clash


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening*
> 
> **


Let's see, another video full of deception a bold hatred:

_" Palestinian children who're being tied and forded into working Israeli fields". _

Proof of blood libel?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You believe that fraud?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Seven decades of struggle: how one Palestinian village's story captures pain of 'Nakba'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Resistance at 70: the future of the Palestinian national movement*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Marion Morrison

Hollie said:


>




Much of that funding has been cut now. 

Nikki Haley is in charge now.

The UN is about to get their asses kicked out of NY.

Rightfully so, too. We don't owe them a damn thing.


----------



## Hollie

A shared pathology that defines the Islamic Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel delivers exile order to Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel delivers exile order to Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar*



Has she been living in the Islamic Hilton since 2014?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel delivers exile order to Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has she been living in the Islamic Hilton since 2014?
Click to expand...

Stupid question. She is a Christian.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*

Nadia Hijab, Executive Director of Al-Shabaka, with Zena Agha and Yara Hawari, Policy Fellows of Al Shabaka

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Israeli/Palestinian Conflict Isn't About Religion*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Among your best efforts at cutting and pasting YouTube videos


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...

You will never see this on a MEMRI or PMW propaganda video.

It does not fit their agenda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will never see this on a MEMRI or PMW propaganda video.
> 
> It does not fit their agenda.
Click to expand...


It’s a bit contrary to your agenda of endless Pom Pom flailing in celebration of Islamic terrorists.

Scared women, hiding in their homes and forced into their Shame-Sacks. That’s some agenda you have there.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



What school?

A Koran, UNRWA welfare fraud money, hamas sponsored Hitler Youth Camps all coordinated to indoctrinate islamo-yutes into the ways of their Death Cult. 

It’s a recipe to create the pathology that defines the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What school?
> 
> A Koran, UNRWA welfare fraud money, hamas sponsored Hitler Youth Camps all coordinated to indoctrinate islamo-yutes into the ways of their Death Cult.
> 
> It’s a recipe to create the pathology that defines the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan
Click to expand...

You are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What school?
> 
> A Koran, UNRWA welfare fraud money, hamas sponsored Hitler Youth Camps all coordinated to indoctrinate islamo-yutes into the ways of their Death Cult.
> 
> It’s a recipe to create the pathology that defines the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...


Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Gaza conflict: another UN school hit by Israel, at least 16 dead*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You will never see this on a MEMRI or PMW propaganda video.
> 
> It does not fit their agenda.
Click to expand...



Talking about "agenda" of MEMRI while presenting Palestinian propaganda in English, is quiet the show of the grasp of ones intellect.

Do I have to explain the meaning of _"translation"_?


----------



## rylah

*Al Jazeera TV Report on Boom in Gaza Consumer Enterprises*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.



More like Arabs-Moslems behaving in the way Arabs-Moslems behave.


----------



## Hollie

Say it ain't so, Al. 

Al has that need to regurgitate the izlamic terrorist politburo party line that such that the islamic man-god has promised lands conquered by islamics to before forever part of Ummah'istan.

Sorry, Al. Check your calendar this is not May, 632 CE.


U.K.-BASED PALESTINIAN ACADEMIC AND MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD ACTIVIST AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: EMBASSY MOVE TO JERUSALEM NO BIG DEAL, SINCE TEL AVIV IS ALSO PART OF PALESTINE
May 15, 2018


"U.K.-Based Palestinian Academic and Muslim Brotherhood Activist Azzam Al-Tamimi: Embassy Move to Jerusalem No Big Deal, Since Tel Aviv Is Also Part of Palestine"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like Arabs-Moslems behaving in the way Arabs-Moslems behave.
Click to expand...

An invading army in the US would get a lot more than a few rocks.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like Arabs-Moslems behaving in the way Arabs-Moslems behave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An invading army in the US would get a lot more than a few rocks.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the wannabe invading islamic terrorists got a lot more than a few rocks.

Discuss your failures during Friday prayers at the madassah, before and after the "Death to (whomever) chorus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More like Arabs-Moslems behaving in the way Arabs-Moslems behave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An invading army in the US would get a lot more than a few rocks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, the wannabe invading islamic terrorists got a lot more than a few rocks.
> 
> Discuss your failures during Friday prayers at the madassah, before and after the "Death to (whomever) chorus.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did You try to make a point regarding what I said in the "debates" thread?
I see Syrian and Turkish flags, I don't see anyone protesting what happens in Syrian Palestinian camps when Jews are not involved.

*3,500 Palestinian refugees flee Syria's Yarmouk camp*

An estimated 3,500 Palestinians have fled the embattled Yarmouk refugee camp during a week of violence, according to the UN, as the Syrian government escalates its ongoing military operationin southern Damascus.

Monitors have accused the government of carrying out an intense campaign of air raids as well as using barrel bombs, missiles and shells.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel is losing its friends around the world and Americans are questioning Israel's acts*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



He said Kerry and Obamba?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



What friends has israel lost since the 2014 beat-down delivered to Islamic terrorists in Gaza?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Channel 4 News*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Your tax dollars at work: The Palestinian Authority is now using half of its foreign aid to reward terrorism.


https://nypost.com/2017/07/28/pales...ses-half-of-all-foreign-aid-to-reward-terror/


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Israel is losing the social media war over Gaza | Channel 4 News*
> 
> **



I don't think Israel ever won the media war.
It only got an international tv station just a couple of years ago.

These media attacks and demonstration, compared to moving embassies and ever growing cooperations...well, if Israel survived the Pharaoh and Europe, with G-d's help we'll survive this as well.

You just don't impress a Jews with "lack of support" from the nations. DA! 
The main lesson Israel learned in the last century was - "Never blindly trust Your friends, and always believe what Your enemies say".

Hamas is an enemy.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. So why not help the smaller Palestinian communities receive citizenship in Lebanon, Syria like they did in Chile?


----------



## montelatici

Because they want to remain in their ancestral land.  Haven't the Jews stolen enough land?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Because they want to remain in their ancestral land.  Haven't the Jews stolen enough land?



*Hamas Official: There are no Palestinian people. We're Egyptian and Saudis.*


I hear Egypt and Saudi Arabia have lots land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Too stupid to figure out they are not wanted.



Wait, wait.  Is "not wanted" a reason enough to use lethal force on someone?  Because that sure isn't the story we are hearing on the other side.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Because they want to remain in their ancestral land.  Haven't the Jews stolen enough land?



Arab Palestinians want to remain in their ancestral land.  So do the Jewish people.  Why is wanting to live in your ancestral land "stealing"?  

Yes, I know you are going to answer that Jews aren't really Jews.  Don't bother.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mass demonstration in #Casablanca city in solidarity with #Gaza and in against moving the American embassy to the occupied #Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mass demonstration in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


#Italy in the city of #Milan in solidarity with #Gaza


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mass demonstration in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #Italy in the city of #Milan in solidarity with #Gaza



Did they bring any ak-47's and firebombs to the protest, like they do in Gaza,
 or is it just a lame parody of the real thing?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


It is obvious that this guy is a comedian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is obvious that this guy is a comedian.
Click to expand...


You share so much in common.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


>



"The revolution of modern Pal'istan"?

The two, competing mini-caliphate are at war with each other over electricity. Who needs electricity when you have a Koran and an AK-47?

After months of cuts, Israel to increase electricity to Gaza at PA’s request


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pal’Istanian festival


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*3rd Nablus Festival for Tourism, Culture and Arts 2018 - Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist festival


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pro-Pal’Istanian rally.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess this will have to do for a picknick outing.



P F Tinmore said:


> MEDIA = REMOVED = NO NARRATIVE


*(COMMENT)*

Where was this March and When?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I guess this will have to do for a picknick outing.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> MEDIA = REMOVED = NO NARRATIVE
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Where was this March and When?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Melbourne
It was posted today or yesterday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Students of #University of #Houston protesting against the visit of the US ambassador to UN Nikki Haley to the #university


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Students of #University of #Houston protesting against the visit of the US ambassador to UN Nikki Haley to the #university



What a shame that here in the _Great Satan_™️ we dont have Islamic Terrorist enforcers to prohibit this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People chanted during a demo in #Canada in solidarity with #Palestine.*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hams and PLO shout give the people they keep in the camps equal conditions,
rather than prolong their suffering for an exaggerated picture of reality.

"Uninhabitable" Gaza outside the camps:


----------



## Hollie

The IDF celebrating another Hamas beat down.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A huge turnout from #Belfast to support the #Palestinian #GreatReturnMarch.*

*




*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

What a lovely “religion”


----------



## P F Tinmore

A protest in Asuncion, Paraguay


----------



## Hollie

Dead Islamic Terrorists Walking - the next generation. 

It’s just sick beyond imagination except in one, particular Death Cult.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> A protest in Asuncion, Paraguay




Netanyahu at Paraguay embassy opening: Israel has no better friend than Paraguay


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*International activists and human rights defenders set sail from #Copenhagen in attempt to break #Gaza blockade.*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Belfast*


----------



## Hollie

Muhammedan’istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A New Flotilla Sets Sail To Break the Blockade on Gaza *

Islands Brygge, an idyllic harbor park that stretches along the east bank of Copenhagen, was alive with a celebratory crowd on Monday as three ships were about to steam towards Gaza. The 2018 Freedom Flotilla—two ships from Sweden and one from Norway — will call at ports in Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal and Italy before traveling through the Mediterranean Sea to its final destination: Gaza harbor.


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *A New Flotilla Sets Sail To Break the Blockade on Gaza *
> 
> Islands Brygge, an idyllic harbor park that stretches along the east bank of Copenhagen, was alive with a celebratory crowd on Monday as three ships were about to steam towards Gaza. The 2018 Freedom Flotilla—two ships from Sweden and one from Norway — will call at ports in Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal and Italy before traveling through the Mediterranean Sea to its final destination: Gaza harbor.



Wow.  They just don't get it, do they?  The blockade is not going to end as long as people (including these people) use protests which turn violent to force Israel to put itself in danger.  If they want to end the blockade they should be working to convince Hamas and the people of Gaza to stop the violence.  This isn't hard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sara Roy on the Occupation of Palestine*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Sara Roy on the Occupation of Palestine*
> 
> **



She's blaming Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, for the war between PLO and Hamas?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Sara Roy on the Occupation of Palestine*



Yet another bumbling Islamic terrorist apologist.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sara Roy on the Occupation of Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another bumbling Islamic terrorist apologist.
Click to expand...


You're quite welcome. Its always intetesting, and totally predictable, to see the misfits you find to be your heroes.


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sara Roy on the Occupation of Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet another bumbling Islamic terrorist apologist.
Click to expand...


Typical lunacy...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Meet Madees Khoury: The only Female Beer Brewer in the Middle East.*





Source: Telegraph

Taybeh beer is one of the most popular beers in the Middle East and Madees Khoury, who works as a general manager at the Taybeh Brewing Company, is believed to be only the female beer brewer in the Middle East according to The Telegraph.

Taybeh beer was ranked by CNN among the top 6 beers in the Middle East and is produced by the Khourys, a Christian Palestinian family originally from Taybeh, an ancient Palestinian village in the occupied West Bank, not far from where Jesus is said to have fasted for 40 days.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Meet Madees Khoury: The only Female Beer Brewer in the Middle East.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Telegraph
> 
> Taybeh beer is one of the most popular beers in the Middle East and Madees Khoury, who works as a general manager at the Taybeh Brewing Company, is believed to be only the female beer brewer in the Middle East according to The Telegraph.
> 
> Taybeh beer was ranked by CNN among the top 6 beers in the Middle East and is produced by the Khourys, a Christian Palestinian family originally from Taybeh, an ancient Palestinian village in the occupied West Bank, not far from where Jesus is said to have fasted for 40 days.



She's an Israeli.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Madees Khoury: The only Female Beer Brewer in the Middle East.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Telegraph
> 
> Taybeh beer is one of the most popular beers in the Middle East and Madees Khoury, who works as a general manager at the Taybeh Brewing Company, is believed to be only the female beer brewer in the Middle East according to The Telegraph.
> 
> Taybeh beer was ranked by CNN among the top 6 beers in the Middle East and is produced by the Khourys, a Christian Palestinian family originally from Taybeh, an ancient Palestinian village in the occupied West Bank, not far from where Jesus is said to have fasted for 40 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's an Israeli.
Click to expand...


My mistake there's another Taybeh in the north of Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Christian Palestinian family originally from Taybeh, an ancient Palestinian village in the occupied West Bank, not far from where Jesus is said to have fasted for 40 days.



Hah, there're actually 3 different Taybeh in Israel, and a couple more spread around the region.

*Her specific Taybeh was called 'Ofra' in Hebrew, 
before it was renamed by the Invading Arabs:*

History:
Et Taiyiba (literally meaning the good) town is an old Canaanite town that was called "'Afra", meaning the gazelle, however, later on, in the 12th century, Salah ad Din al Ayyubi came to the town and called it Et Taiyiba, because of its good hearted residents. Moreover, the establishment of the town dates back to more than 2000 years before Christ and *its current residents are descendent of the Arabian Peninsula* (Et Taiyiba Municipal Council, 2011).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/Et Taiyiba_en.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Walled Off Hotel- Bethlehem*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 surprising destinations where tourism is booming in 2017 *

*Here are the fastest growing tourist destinations so far in 2017:  

1. Palestine
Earlier this year the street artist, Banksy, opened a boutique hotel in Palestine’s West Bank, which, in hindsight, appears to have been a sage move: tourism in Palestine is booming. According to the UNWTO, the occupied territories witnessed a 57.8 per cent rise in international arrivals so far this year. 

Overlooking the Israeli West Bank barrier, Banksy’s politically-charged Walled Off Hotel has likely helped raise awareness of tourism in Palestine, which is on course to welcome more than 630,000 holidaymakers by the end of the year. Read our review of the Walled Off Hotel here. 

10 surprising countries where tourism is booming in 2017
*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *10 surprising destinations where tourism is booming in 2017 *
> 
> *Here are the fastest growing tourist destinations so far in 2017:  *
> 
> *1. Palestine*
> *Earlier this year the street artist, Banksy, opened a boutique hotel in Palestine’s West Bank, which, in hindsight, appears to have been a sage move: tourism in Palestine is booming. According to the UNWTO, the occupied territories witnessed a 57.8 per cent rise in international arrivals so far this year. *
> 
> *Overlooking the Israeli West Bank barrier, Banksy’s politically-charged Walled Off Hotel has likely helped raise awareness of tourism in Palestine, which is on course to welcome more than 630,000 holidaymakers by the end of the year. Read our review of the Walled Off Hotel here. *
> 
> *10 surprising countries where tourism is booming in 2017*



Could you email the UN. To avert such a tragedy, the UNRWA welfare fraud needs more money. 


UN: Gaza may be uninhabitable by 2020 on current trends


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




*Let’s hope they can keep Arabs-Moslems at a safe distance.  *

*Taybeh OktoberFest to be held Sept. 16 & 17*

*OktoberFest is more than about drinking alcohol. It is a part of the Christian heritage. Consumed in moderation and with the spirit of fellowship and Palestinian comradery. This year, OktoberFest will be celebrated on Sept. 16 and 17th in Taybeh, one of the most important centers of Christian existence in the Holy Land.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah:* Israeli Apartheid & Beyond.



Was that broadcast from the _Judenrein_ mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *10 surprising destinations where tourism is booming in 2017 *
> 
> *Here are the fastest growing tourist destinations so far in 2017:  *
> 
> *1. Palestine*
> *Earlier this year the street artist, Banksy, opened a boutique hotel in Palestine’s West Bank, which, in hindsight, appears to have been a sage move: tourism in Palestine is booming. According to the UNWTO, the occupied territories witnessed a 57.8 per cent rise in international arrivals so far this year. *
> 
> *Overlooking the Israeli West Bank barrier, Banksy’s politically-charged Walled Off Hotel has likely helped raise awareness of tourism in Palestine, which is on course to welcome more than 630,000 holidaymakers by the end of the year. Read our review of the Walled Off Hotel here. *
> 
> *10 surprising countries where tourism is booming in 2017*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you email the UN. To avert such a tragedy, the UNRWA welfare fraud needs more money.
> 
> 
> UN: Gaza may be uninhabitable by 2020 on current trends
Click to expand...


I read the list, and Israel is on it too.  Israel and Palestine raking in the tourist dollars WITHOUT peace!  Can you imagine the tourist dollars with a 2-state solution AND real peace?


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *10 surprising destinations where tourism is booming in 2017 *
> 
> *Here are the fastest growing tourist destinations so far in 2017:  *
> 
> *1. Palestine*
> *Earlier this year the street artist, Banksy, opened a boutique hotel in Palestine’s West Bank, which, in hindsight, appears to have been a sage move: tourism in Palestine is booming. According to the UNWTO, the occupied territories witnessed a 57.8 per cent rise in international arrivals so far this year. *
> 
> *Overlooking the Israeli West Bank barrier, Banksy’s politically-charged Walled Off Hotel has likely helped raise awareness of tourism in Palestine, which is on course to welcome more than 630,000 holidaymakers by the end of the year. Read our review of the Walled Off Hotel here. *
> 
> *10 surprising countries where tourism is booming in 2017*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you email the UN. To avert such a tragedy, the UNRWA welfare fraud needs more money.
> 
> 
> UN: Gaza may be uninhabitable by 2020 on current trends
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I read the list, and Israel is on it too.  Israel and Palestine raking in the tourist dollars WITHOUT peace!  Can you imagine the tourist dollars with a 2-state solution AND real peace?
Click to expand...

That would be huge. 

Unfortunately, for as long as the Islamic terrorist infrastructures of Hamas and the Abbas syndicates are financed by UNRWA, those franchises will maintain the status quo.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



I take it you have abandoned poor Shirley Temper for the much younger teen girl.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



A supposed rally that Ahed will not attend.


----------



## Andylusion

It's nice to see courage.
But courage used to cause people to throw their lives away for a doomed cause, is courage wasted.

Use your courage for something good.  Not something that only causes others to die.
Honestly, she is wasting, literally wasting her courage, to cause others to die.  That is very sad.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A message from Laila Al Marayati chairwoman of KinderUSA SD*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *A message from Laila Al Marayati chairwoman of KinderUSA SD*
> 
> **



So she's basically representing another organization that invests money in the continuation of the conflict rather than demanding the Palestinian government and the Arab countries to free those in the camps and give them equal rights.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Look I've got a cardboard too - 

Do I get to demand now a Jew-free state?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The gee-had in Shame Sacks


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pretty funny when self-proclaimed invaders whine about home.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

As usual, Israeli Military shooting at unarmed civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> As usual, Israeli Military shooting at unarmed civilians.



As usual, another staged event for the Pallywood Propaganda groupies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, Israeli Military shooting at unarmed civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, another staged event for the Pallywood Propaganda groupies.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Palestinians went down to the local Rent-A-Goontard store and picked up some troops, guns, and jeeps and filmed a protest. 

You are a hoot.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, Israeli Military shooting at unarmed civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, another staged event for the Pallywood Propaganda groupies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians went down to the local Rent-A-Goontard store and picked up some troops, guns, and jeeps and filmed a protest.
> 
> You are a hoot.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the Arabs-Moslems never miss an opportunity for another goofy Pallywood Production farce. 

Gullibility is a positive attribute, right?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Not surprising that Pallywood Studios would hope to drag that body out of the grave.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems exploiting children for Pallywood Propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




The "PLO". Just another name given to just another Islamic terrorist syndicate.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr.Mustafa Barghouti says relying on the US has failed completely*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*SPUTNIK 220: George Galloway Interviews Dr. Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## Hollie

It’s important to point out that one of the advantages we in the anti-Islamist terrorist camp possess is that the Islamists, like the National Socialists/Communists before them, are so in thrall with their ideology that they are loathe to hide it. Instead, they shout it from the rooftops for all to hear. 


*

Volley and Violence*

*Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins


PA Ministry of Education branch *
*names volleyball championship for teachers after terrorist* 







By Nan Jacques Zilberdik

Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.

The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)

The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It’s important to point out that one of the advantages we in the anti-Islamist terrorist camp possess is that the Islamists, like the National Socialists/Communists before them, are so in thrall with their ideology that they are loathe to hide it. Instead, they shout it from the rooftops for all to hear.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Volley and Violence*
> 
> *Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education branch
> names volleyball championship for teachers after terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.
> 
> The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)
> 
> The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.


Ah, the old terrorist canard again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s important to point out that one of the advantages we in the anti-Islamist terrorist camp possess is that the Islamists, like the National Socialists/Communists before them, are so in thrall with their ideology that they are loathe to hide it. Instead, they shout it from the rooftops for all to hear.
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Volley and Violence*
> 
> *Volley and Violence - PA Ministry of Education names teachers tourney after terrorist - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> PA Ministry of Education branch
> names volleyball championship for teachers after terrorist*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Nan Jacques Zilberdik
> 
> Not only Palestinian children compete in championships named after terrorists - so do their teachers.
> 
> The Qalqilya Directorate of Education, which is a branch of the PA Ministry of Education, recently held the "*Martyr Abd Al-Jaber Abd Al-Qader Khaled Volleyball Championship for Teachers*," named after a Palestinian terrorist and member of Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Together with an accomplice, Khaled attempted to carry out a combined shooting and suicide bombing attack at an Israeli army training camp in 2002. (See below)
> 
> The championship was sponsored by Abbas' Fatah Movement and the Jayyous Municipality in the Qalqilya district.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the old terrorist canard again.
Click to expand...


Ah, the old Tinmore duck and retreat tactic.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Apparently the video doesn't mention that the street on the other side of the fence is a frequent spot of attacks against Jewish worshipers on the way to the Cave of the Patriarchs.

I think additional 500 meter walk is worth if it can keeps people safe.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Linkiloo

I'm watching Fauda at the moment. Awesome show. Pity that the terrorists want to be martyrs. I feel most for the women, who are told Jihad is having kids, while their husbands plan to kill Jews.


----------



## Hollie

It really is disturbing how some are flailing their Pom Poms for another, very average islamic fascist.


Sarsour, Adelson, and Ha’aretz | Middle East Forum

Sarsour describes one of the most extreme imams in America as her “mentor,” although Siraj Wahhaj advocates the stoning of adulterers to death, the chopping off of the hands of thieves, and lashing people who drink alcohol. In addition, he encourages Muslims to hate homosexuals and has told his congregation:  "Take not into your intimacy those outside of your race. They will not fail to corrupt you. Don't you know our children are surrounded by _kafirs_ [non-Muslims]. I'm telling you, making the hearts of our children corrupt, dirty, foul."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Just to remind Israel that the world is watching.

1,761,907 have signed. Support still coming in from every country in the world.

Help free my daughter


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


> Just to remind Israel that the world is watching.
> 
> 1,761,907 have signed. Support still coming in from every country in the world.
> 
> Help free my daughter


1.2 billion Muslims haven't signed yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Barghouti Recounts Victories in Acceptance Speech of Gandhi Peace Award*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud - May 15, 2018 Sydney Uni*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben Youssef*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Amahl Bishara interviews Palestinian sociologist Salim Tamari*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


So you are the Hamas spokesperson now? Everything you post is Hamas.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are the Hamas spokesperson now? Everything you post is Hamas.
Click to expand...


They even gave me a complimentary ski mask.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Another Hamas post. Surprise, surprise, surprise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Expo draws thousands in London despite smear campaign*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


>


Sounds cute but the usual bullshit


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Irene Calis*


----------



## Hollie

*The Islamist Death Cult


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Dehamanizing Children*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Empire Files: Inside Palestine’s Refugee Camps*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Death Cult files. 

Inside the Islamic version of the Hitler Youth Camps.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Islamic Death Cult files.
> 
> Inside the Islamic version of the Hitler Youth Camps.
> 
> 
> *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Death Cultists - The Next Dead Terrorists.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*

**
When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
Click to expand...

Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve
Click to expand...


So Your Jihadi heroes are immune from responsibility for their violence, because they're incapable of thinking on their own? 

Next time simply claim for medical insanity, that would be a less pathetic excuse.


----------



## rylah

Cinderella show Gaza style


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your Jihadi heroes are immune from responsibility for their violence, because they're incapable of thinking on their own?
> 
> Next time simply claim for medical insanity, that would be a less pathetic excuse.
Click to expand...

As I said neither side are capable,but yet again your Zionist lack of Empathy merely raises it Ugly Head...You cannot dialogue in any meaningful way..You are a very SAD man...


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your Jihadi heroes are immune from responsibility for their violence, because they're incapable of thinking on their own?
> 
> Next time simply claim for medical insanity, that would be a less pathetic excuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said neither side are capable,but yet again your Zionist lack of Empathy merely raises it Ugly Head...You cannot dialogue in any meaningful way..You are a very SAD man...
Click to expand...

I'm not the one claiming Arabs can't think on their own - You are, while making it an excuse for unnecessarily prolonging the conflict, THAT is really sad.

I was the only one here proposing a Sulha.
Everyone on team Palestine either laughed or neglected.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your Jihadi heroes are immune from responsibility for their violence, because they're incapable of thinking on their own?
> 
> Next time simply claim for medical insanity, that would be a less pathetic excuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said neither side are capable,but yet again your Zionist lack of Empathy merely raises it Ugly Head...You cannot dialogue in any meaningful way..You are a very SAD man...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not the one claiming Arabs can't think on their own - You are, while making it an excuse for unnecessarily prolonging the conflict, THAT is really sad.
> 
> I was the only one here proposing a Sulha.
> Everyone on team Palestine either laughed or neglected.
Click to expand...

DID I


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## TrueTT

I, for one, am sick and tired of the nauseating Palestinian cries for help.

Muslims want to wage Jihad and conquer non-Muslims- claiming that Allah has endowed them with the capabilities to do so.

So then, why exactly do you cry and cry and cry more when your efforts to conquer are to no avail? The Arabs aren't capable of defeating the Israeli Jews so instead they try and whine their way into an international settlement?

Pathetic cretins. Man up and put your money where your obnoxious mouths are.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Isn't this the girl who wrote a poem about drug abuse among the young in her society?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



I'm still waiting for any proof of her blood libels...You can't just go around telling people that Israelis tie Arabs in shackles to enslave them in Israeli farms 

Apparently facts don't sound as good as the age old antisemitic blood libels...


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
> 
> **
> When Tamimi doesn't have a paper to read from, her real filth comes out.
> I guess the Europeans won't be there each time to write filtered speeches for her...
> 
> 
> 
> Rylah,it is a SAD inditement that a young woman and thousands like her,feel in such a way,Israel and Zionists created such thoughts through repression and it works in reverse of course,,,the world today is a Sad place for so many,,,What saddens me is that neither side are incapable of peace and forgiveness...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your Jihadi heroes are immune from responsibility for their violence, because they're incapable of thinking on their own?
> 
> Next time simply claim for medical insanity, that would be a less pathetic excuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As I said neither side are capable,but yet again your Zionist lack of Empathy merely raises it Ugly Head...You cannot dialogue in any meaningful way..You are a very SAD man...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not the one claiming Arabs can't think on their own - You are, while making it an excuse for unnecessarily prolonging the conflict, THAT is really sad.
> 
> I was the only one here proposing a Sulha.
> Everyone on team Palestine either laughed or neglected.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DID I
Click to expand...


agha, what's next?

Put a poor kitten face and say:
_"Those Zionists happen to jump with their backs on our knives, we have no control over it" 





_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Nothing to see here, continue walking and look away... nothing to do with ISIS.

Here's a poor kitten face for ya


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

“The fetus, a proud Martyr in his mother’s womb” – Songs on official PA radio - PMW Bulletins


by Nan Jacques Zilberdik

When Palestinians tune in to the official PA radio station, _The Voice of Palestine_, they hear songs encouraging them to seek Martyrdom-death and to sacrifice themselves for Jerusalem, the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and “Palestine.” Catchy lyrics pass on the message that Palestinians are “not afraid of death,” and teach them that already in its mother’s womb, the fetus is “a proud Martyr” who has “Palestine etched on the heart”:







_Click to view video_

“Our Martyrs are convoys and our bones are mountains
They don’t surrender to the lowly
We aren't deterred by imprisonment
*Palestine is etched on the heart of the fetus*

*A proud Martyr in his mother’s womb*

And the Arab state will remain ours - Arab, Arab PalestineWe [hold] the rifles to our chests and our eyes are raised to you
Our homes are trenches and our souls are the sacrifice for youO Jerusalem, you will not remain stolen.”
[“The First Direction of Prayer” by Syrian singer Assala Nasri, 
 Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, Feb. 3, 2018]



The Fatah-run TV station Awdah broadcast the music video of this song too (video above): 









[Fatah-run Awdah TV, May 15, 2018]



Discussing PA media’s responsibilities, Director General of _The Voice of Palestine_ Bassam Daghlas has stated that PA radio works diligently to “defend Jerusalem and Palestine” - in cooperation with the PA Ministry of Information:



“We are working day and night to convey the facts to the world, defend Jerusalem, and defend our Palestinian cause and Palestine. We are cooperating with the brothers in the [PA] Ministry of Information... in uniting the Palestinian voice over the radio waves, the voice of the Palestinian people."
[Official PA TV, Dec. 12, 2017] 


The songs speak for themselves.


One song lauded death for “Palestine,” which has been “decorated” with “Martyrs, souls, and blood”: 





“O our land, on Land Day *we salute the Martyr who fell for your sake, homeland*...
*We decorated [the land] with Martyrs, souls, and blood*... On March 30, O day of the struggle, we rebelled against Zionism and the occupation. *The Martyrs’ blood flowed in you and sang a song for you*... There is nothing more precious than you, O land of Palestine. By Allah, *we have sacrificed the precious Martyrs for your sake*.”
[Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, March 20, 2018]


In January, Palestinian Media Watch reported on a similar song played on official PA radio, which urges Palestinians to “redeem Palestine with your life and blood": 








"O Palestinian, Jerusalem is your name, your land, your heartbeat, and your mother.
*Redeem it with your life and blood,* O [you] who raises my head in pride... O pained Palestinian, your head is lifted high with pride, the entire world hears your voice, only your resolve strengthens me... We are united, Muslims and Christians. So that Palestine will live, we must remain united."
[Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, Jan. 1, 2018]



After PMW’s report, radio station Director-General Daghlas accused PMW of "waging an incitement campaign" against the station, and vowed “not to change” the station’s “message”: 



“The incitement campaign that the Israeli center Palestinian Media Watch is waging against _The Voice of Palestine_ radio station is not the first case, as it has been subject to similar attacks in the past...Our media message is clear and will not change, and if they consider playing national songs incitement, they can think what they want."
[Official PA daily _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida_, Jan. 25, 2018]

It would seem that Daghlas was true to his word. Another recent song played on _The Voice of Palestine_ stated that our souls are the sacrifice for Jerusalem,” and that Palestinians “are not afraid of death”: 




“O Jerusalem, we are growing up in you,
and *our souls are the sacrifice for you.*

We are your men who will defend you,

and shout loudly:

Al-Aqsa Mosque is for us

a beacon, glory, history, and culture...

Frankly, *we are not afraid of death.*”

    [Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, Feb. 21, 2018]


“The time of death has arrived,” said another song, implying that Palestinians are coming to defend Jerusalem and, if necessary, die there:




“Jerusalem, *we are coming, Jerusalem, the time of death has arrived. *
Jerusalem, we will not surrender to the enemies or be humiliated. 
This is beloved Palestine, it has taught us what to be.”
[Song by Al-Waed Band for Islamic Art (Lebanese band),
Official PA radio station _The Voice of Palestine_, March 19, 2018]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another one of those fake pictures where she's clutching a loaf of bread?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Looks like they've passed that one around quite a lot. Anyways, what are you trying to say? It's a dead kid, so what?


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


He's giving him a hug. What a nice picture!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Ya, and? People die all the time. Do you even have a point?


----------



## rylah

*Luxury Alongside Poverty in the Palestinian Authority*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Unattributed photos of unknown origin ?

Thanks, but credibility is not an attribute one assumes of you.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

....




P F Tinmore any more whining over Your Jihadi heroes?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

IDF - Geehad denied.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh please, tens of millions of refugees were relocated after WW2, India and Pakistan had a population exchange in 1947, etc.  My own parents were relocated.  It's not the most unusual thing that ever happened in the history of the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


>


Thanks Tinnie...but please NOTE the Mother and Child in the background...IDF= Zionist Filth


----------



## theliq

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, tens of millions of refugees were relocated after WW2, India and Pakistan had a population exchange in 1947, etc.  My own parents were relocated.  It's not the most unusual thing that ever happened in the history of the world.
Click to expand...

Yes it is if you are Palestinian....


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
> No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.
Click to expand...


It is not about immigration.


----------



## Taz

A people should know when they're beaten. The Pals need to wake up to that fact.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
> No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not about immigration.
Click to expand...


It's about the mere existence of Jews that sends islamics into murderous rages.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
> No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not about immigration.
Click to expand...


You mentioned immigration, I was talking about relocation that Jews suffered as a result of a violence and displacement that was inflicted by the Arab population.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
Click to expand...

You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
> No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not about immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mentioned immigration, I was talking about relocation that Jews suffered as a result of a violence and displacement that was inflicted by the Arab population.
Click to expand...

What was that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
Click to expand...


Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are not cattle either, and they were relocated as a result of her people's war against Jews.
> No nation is obliged to accept hostile population into their society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not about immigration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mentioned immigration, I was talking about relocation that Jews suffered as a result of a violence and displacement that was inflicted by the Arab population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was that?
Click to expand...


Safed, Jerusalem, Tiberias, Hebron, Huran , Gaza, Iraq... to name a few.
Her people caused it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
Click to expand...



Links?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


You don't know about her family connection to the Turkish govt?
Or about her incitement to stabbing and suicide bombing?

In my reports about confrontations I showed many times that Nabi Saleh confrontations were coordinated with Hamas in Gaza to the minute.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
Click to expand...

What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
Click to expand...


Where's the attack?
All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's the attack?
> All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.
Click to expand...

Yeah, IDF (Israeli Doofus Force), too fucking stupid to figure out why people throw stones at them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's the attack?
> All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, IDF (Israeli Doofus Force), too fucking stupid to figure out why people throw stones at them.
Click to expand...


Another silly YouTube video. Curious how these are edited for Islamic terrorist propaganda purposes only showing a narrow view of the events.

How does it feel being an accomplice to islamic propaganda?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she went and openly incited her people to commit stabbing attacks suicide bombing, I don't see a reason why couple of month in jail are not a good response, and opportunity to think and see what it is a life of a militant..if she chooses to remain one.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's the attack?
> All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, IDF (Israeli Doofus Force), too fucking stupid to figure out why people throw stones at them.
Click to expand...


Because they're bored?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what is happening in Nabi Salah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's the attack?
> All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, IDF (Israeli Doofus Force), too fucking stupid to figure out why people throw stones at them.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they're bored?
Click to expand...

IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) intelligence in a nutshell.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

It's all Islamo fun and games until the shooting starts and dead islamos begin to accumulate.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish money and Hamas cooperation is happening in Nabi Saleh,.
> However they're relatively quiet since the provocateurs were jailed.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, quiet. Israel is still attacking Nabi Saleh.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where's the attack?
> All I see is stupid provocation, some teenager is bored, goes to throw stones at soldiers on the road.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, IDF (Israeli Doofus Force), too fucking stupid to figure out why people throw stones at them.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because they're bored?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) intelligence in a nutshell.
Click to expand...

Simple review of the daily tweets from Nabi Saleh.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

IDF Druze battalion celebrates 40th year since its 
establishment


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves. 

That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians". 

How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't. 

Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
Click to expand...

The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?
Click to expand...


I think you're a bit befuddled. The video you cut and pasted showed Arabs-Moslems as the attackers / instigators. 

The IDF chose not to respond with live fire. How unfortunate for you. There was an opportunity missed for another dead Islamo body you could parade around as a way to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're a bit befuddled. The video you cut and pasted showed Arabs-Moslems as the attackers / instigators.
> 
> The IDF chose not to respond with live fire. How unfortunate for you. There was an opportunity missed for another dead Islamo body you could parade around as a way to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.
Click to expand...

The foreign troops are always the aggressor.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're a bit befuddled. The video you cut and pasted showed Arabs-Moslems as the attackers / instigators.
> 
> The IDF chose not to respond with live fire. How unfortunate for you. There was an opportunity missed for another dead Islamo body you could parade around as a way to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
Click to expand...


Oh come on. Admit it. You're just livid that an Arab-Moslem didn't die so you could have a dead body to parade around.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're a bit befuddled. The video you cut and pasted showed Arabs-Moslems as the attackers / instigators.
> 
> The IDF chose not to respond with live fire. How unfortunate for you. There was an opportunity missed for another dead Islamo body you could parade around as a way to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh come on. Admit it. You're just livid that an Arab-Moslem didn't die so you could have a dead body to parade around.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.



Well, we can certainly agree that this is the problem in Nabi Saleh.  The mere presence of Jews is "aggression".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we can certainly agree that this is the problem in Nabi Saleh.  The mere presence of Jews is "aggression".
Click to expand...

Dumb post.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the Israeli soldiers could have opened fire to protect themselves.
> 
> That would cause people like you to whine and moan about "shooting at innocent civilians".
> 
> How courageous of you to flail you Pom Poms while others engage in dangerous provocations you won't.
> 
> Your gee-had from behind a keyboard is a laughable joke.
> 
> 
> 
> The IDF (Israeli Doofus Force) is always attacking civilians. Then they whine about getting a few rocks. Tissue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're a bit befuddled. The video you cut and pasted showed Arabs-Moslems as the attackers / instigators.
> 
> The IDF chose not to respond with live fire. How unfortunate for you. There was an opportunity missed for another dead Islamo body you could parade around as a way to promote your rabid Jew hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh come on. Admit it. You're just livid that an Arab-Moslem didn't die so you could have a dead body to parade around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


Even more so now than previously, it’s funny to watch you cut and paste the same two slogans against every argument you’re unable to respond to.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we can certainly agree that this is the problem in Nabi Saleh.  The mere presence of Jews is "aggression".
Click to expand...

Occupations, by definition, are the aggressors. People do not get occupied voluntarily. It requires force.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The foreign troops are always the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we can certainly agree that this is the problem in Nabi Saleh.  The mere presence of Jews is "aggression".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Occupations, by definition, are the aggressors. People do not get occupied voluntarily. It requires force.
Click to expand...


As I said, the mere presence of Jews is "aggression".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


*
Arafat: Oslo Accords are like Muhammad's
temporary peace agreement*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pallywood Film Festival


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Curator's Tour: Omar Kholeif on Emily Jacir: Europa*

**


----------



## Hollie

Fraud Tour


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jennifer Jajeh*


----------



## Hollie

I "heart" Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli court extends the detention of Palestinian politician Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Shireen Said*







But the recent 42nd anniversary rally of the PFLP in Gaza, which attracted some 70,000 people, raised the profile of the Palestinian revolutionary left and also of the role of women: one young woman of the PFLP, called Shireen Said, stood on stage, giving a salute in military fatigues, and co-chaired the rally alongside her male comrade.  In an interview with the writer, Said explained a little about her background, stating that she was born in 1985 in the Jabalya refugee camp, from which the “children of the stones” started the first Intifada.  “My childhood memories are mostly of the first Intifada,” she explains.  In her early teens she became involved in one of the student movements associated with the PFLP.

Palestinian revolutionary women on International Women’s Day


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I want to speak "Death Cult"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I want to go to the hospital.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil*

*The Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opens up about the intense racist backlash she faced when her Oakland bakery opened.*

A new restaurant, death threats, early labor, and a James Beard nod.

That was Chef Reem Assil's past year. How was yours?

In May 2017, the Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opened Reem’s, a neon-filled Arab bakery in Oakland’s diverse Fruitvale neighborhood. As a former community and labor organizer, Assil wanted a bakery that would serve as an intersectional community space. Those first few weeks, as she made mana’eesh dough, an Arab flatbread she’s known for, the bakery was bombarded with death threats over a mural of Rasmea Odeh that hung inside. Odeh*, *a Palestinian activist, was tortured into confessing to a bombing that killed two Jewish college students in Jerusalem in the 1960s. For Assil, Odeh is a symbol of resistance and an inspiration.

What started as outrage over the mural turned into more than a year of animosity and racism directed at Assil. The controversy has been covered before (_New York Times_, _ Food & Wine_, _ Eater_and even _ Breitbart_), but one question remains: How the hell did a woman of color survive an intense racist backlash while running a successful bakery and continuing to kick ass?







The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil*
> 
> *The Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opens up about the intense racist backlash she faced when her Oakland bakery opened.*
> 
> A new restaurant, death threats, early labor, and a James Beard nod.
> 
> That was Chef Reem Assil's past year. How was yours?
> 
> In May 2017, the Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opened Reem’s, a neon-filled Arab bakery in Oakland’s diverse Fruitvale neighborhood. As a former community and labor organizer, Assil wanted a bakery that would serve as an intersectional community space. Those first few weeks, as she made mana’eesh dough, an Arab flatbread she’s known for, the bakery was bombarded with death threats over a mural of Rasmea Odeh that hung inside. Odeh*, *a Palestinian activist, was tortured into confessing to a bombing that killed two Jewish college students in Jerusalem in the 1960s. For Assil, Odeh is a symbol of resistance and an inspiration.
> 
> What started as outrage over the mural turned into more than a year of animosity and racism directed at Assil. The controversy has been covered before (_New York Times_, _ Food & Wine_, _ Eater_and even _ Breitbart_), but one question remains: How the hell did a woman of color survive an intense racist backlash while running a successful bakery and continuing to kick ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil



BTW no posts from You about what happens to Palestinians in Syria, or their involvement in the civil war...wonder why?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil*
> 
> *The Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opens up about the intense racist backlash she faced when her Oakland bakery opened.*
> 
> A new restaurant, death threats, early labor, and a James Beard nod.
> 
> That was Chef Reem Assil's past year. How was yours?
> 
> In May 2017, the Palestinian- and Syrian-American chef opened Reem’s, a neon-filled Arab bakery in Oakland’s diverse Fruitvale neighborhood. As a former community and labor organizer, Assil wanted a bakery that would serve as an intersectional community space. Those first few weeks, as she made mana’eesh dough, an Arab flatbread she’s known for, the bakery was bombarded with death threats over a mural of Rasmea Odeh that hung inside. Odeh*, *a Palestinian activist, was tortured into confessing to a bombing that killed two Jewish college students in Jerusalem in the 1960s. For Assil, Odeh is a symbol of resistance and an inspiration.
> 
> What started as outrage over the mural turned into more than a year of animosity and racism directed at Assil. The controversy has been covered before (_New York Times_, _ Food & Wine_, _ Eater_and even _ Breitbart_), but one question remains: How the hell did a woman of color survive an intense racist backlash while running a successful bakery and continuing to kick ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tenacity of Chef Reem Assil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW no posts from You about what happens to Palestinians in Syria, or their involvement in the civil war...wonder why?
Click to expand...

I have posted about Syria in the proper forum.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




*Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*
**
8 months, she just appealed last week for a shorter sentence.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Welcome to the Wannabe Hitler Youth Summer Camp


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic coexistence.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Whack job on the dangers of Arabism/Islamism


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems and worship of a 7th century thief, warlord.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Muhammedan priorities


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Muhammedan priorities


So many terrorist cards!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi 'Israeli Security is Terrified of a Nonviolent #Palestinian Movement'*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist "non-violent" riot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Of course there's no comparative - his side demands a Jew-free Palestine,
Israel on the other hand built an all inclusive society.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What freedoms does she have under Hamas that she lacks in Israel?
Sometimes it just looks that complaining is just a lucrative business.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there's no comparative - his side demands a Jew-free Palestine,
> Israel on the other hand built an all inclusive society.
Click to expand...

You are just another Israeli liar. He didn't say that.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



She can't travel due to Israeli blockade?
Why should Israel even consider letting Gazans in?

They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel, they're either dumb or naive. For a nation that straps bombs on children - naive isn't even a possibility.

Wanna go travel try Egypt, it might work if You  pay enough bakshish,who knows at least Your govt didn't promise to rip their heart out.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there's no comparative - his side demands a Jew-free Palestine,
> Israel on the other hand built an all inclusive society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just another Israeli liar. He didn't say that.
Click to expand...


Oh I'm sorry he used the word "parity", don't You watch Your own videos?

There is no parity between a society that is all inclusive and a society whose main premise is a Jew-free state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,


More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there's no comparative - his side demands a Jew-free Palestine,
> Israel on the other hand built an all inclusive society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just another Israeli liar. He didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I'm sorry he used the word "parity", don't You watch Your own videos?
> 
> There is no parity between a society that is all inclusive and a society whose main premise is a Jew-free state.
Click to expand...

More bullshit from you. Parity had nothing to do with Jews.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there's no comparative - his side demands a Jew-free Palestine,
> Israel on the other hand built an all inclusive society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just another Israeli liar. He didn't say that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I'm sorry he used the word "parity", don't You watch Your own videos?
> 
> There is no parity between a society that is all inclusive and a society whose main premise is a Jew-free state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit from you. Parity had nothing to do with Jews.
Click to expand...


But that's what Palestinian Arabs demand, a Jew- free state.
Even selling land to a Jew is punishable by death (or forced labor for life) under PA and Hamas.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
Click to expand...


That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.

If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
Click to expand...

What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?
Click to expand...

 
Well they demand to "leave" through Israel,
as for the sea if Egypt was controlling the customs, it could be a reasonable suggestion from Hamas, but reason is not what they're looking for. So let them isolate themselves by selling out to Iran and good luck convincing Egypt You're not suicidal maniacs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they demand to "leave" through Israel,
> as for the sea if Egypt was controlling the customs, it could be a reasonable suggestion from Hamas, but reason is not what they're looking for. So let them isolate themselves by selling out to Iran and good luck convincing Egypt You're not suicidal maniacs.
Click to expand...

You are soooooooooooo full of shit. You must be Israeli.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What's interesting is in all of the 18 minutes they didn't show these people even once collect olives the way that real falahs do it.

Ridiculous.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another bs, falahs didn't own any land in the Ottoman times, at best they served for 2-3 years on each plot. It was a feudal system.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They demand to move through our borders, then declare death to Israel,
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they demand to "leave" through Israel,
> as for the sea if Egypt was controlling the customs, it could be a reasonable suggestion from Hamas, but reason is not what they're looking for. So let them isolate themselves by selling out to Iran and good luck convincing Egypt You're not suicidal maniacs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooooooooo full of shit. You must be Israeli.
Click to expand...


Ok, who cares what You think.
We're a sovereign nation, can enact policies on the ground.
They're suicidal maniacs are only good at making their people miserable and start stupid wars they can't win.

At the end of the day, I'm not the one who suffers the most for their stupidity.
I'm just saying if our citizens are not in Gaza, there's no reason for our electricity to go there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit from you. What happened to those who recently tried to leave by boat? They weren't even going to get close to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they demand to "leave" through Israel,
> as for the sea if Egypt was controlling the customs, it could be a reasonable suggestion from Hamas, but reason is not what they're looking for. So let them isolate themselves by selling out to Iran and good luck convincing Egypt You're not suicidal maniacs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooooooooo full of shit. You must be Israeli.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, who cares what You think.
> We're a sovereign nation, can enact policies on the ground.
> They're suicidal maniacs are only good at making their people miserable and start stupid wars they can't win.
> 
> At the end of the day, I'm not the one who suffers the most for their stupidity.
> I'm just saying if our citizens are not in Gaza, there's no reason for our electricity to go there.
Click to expand...

Nice rant!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Charlotte Kates: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.



P F Tinmore said:


> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization


*(COMMENT)*

Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").

Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.

While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This thread is to highlight Palestinians of all stripes and Lara Kiswani is a Palestinian. She is sounding the alarm of a police state. That, in itself, would be off topic for this thread. Basically she is saying that Israel is exporting its repression to other countries. Let me know if you start a thread in a more suitable forum or this forum considering it is Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is to highlight Palestinians of all stripes and Lara Kiswani is a Palestinian. She is sounding the alarm of a police state. That, in itself, would be off topic for this thread. Basically she is saying that Israel is exporting its repression to other countries. Let me know if you start a thread in a more suitable forum or this forum considering it is Israel.
Click to expand...


What “repression” is Israel exporting?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Charlotte Kates: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*



She's wearing a kafiyeh of tribes of Yemen, and talking about Jews colonizing lands?

Arab Muslim imperialism is what it is, and the indigenous people of the middle east have every right to get free themselves from this foreign Arab occupation, not only the Jews, Kurds and Arameans should as well.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was a nice try to break a totally legitimate blockade enacted by a nation whom the Gazans swore to destroy.
> 
> If the sea isn't controlled by Israel, it will be Egypt. so stop whining and get some sense.
> 
> 
> 
> What does a few people leaving have to do with Israel's *lie *about security?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well they demand to "leave" through Israel,
> as for the sea if Egypt was controlling the customs, it could be a reasonable suggestion from Hamas, but reason is not what they're looking for. So let them isolate themselves by selling out to Iran and good luck convincing Egypt You're not suicidal maniacs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are soooooooooooo full of shit. You must be Israeli.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, who cares what You think.
> We're a sovereign nation, can enact policies on the ground.
> They're suicidal maniacs are only good at making their people miserable and start stupid wars they can't win.
> 
> At the end of the day, I'm not the one who suffers the most for their stupidity.
> I'm just saying if our citizens are not in Gaza, there's no reason for our electricity to go there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant!
Click to expand...


So what do You choose - total sealing or resettlement?
The beaches in Gaza are a beauty, especially when lit by Israeli electricity in the evening...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is to highlight Palestinians of all stripes and Lara Kiswani is a Palestinian. She is sounding the alarm of a police state. That, in itself, would be off topic for this thread. Basically she is saying that Israel is exporting its repression to other countries. Let me know if you start a thread in a more suitable forum or this forum considering it is Israel.
Click to expand...

The way You use the name is telling,
all stripes except the blue-white ones.


----------



## rylah

*Gazans thankful to Iran*


----------



## rylah

*Liberal Tunisian Party Head Baator: Normalization of Ties with Israel Is in Tunisia's Best Interests*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> *Liberal Tunisian Party Head Baator: Normalization of Ties with Israel Is in Tunisia's Best Interests*




Who knew about all these occupations?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure why you posted this; as it is about unclassified concepts in surveillance measures, weapons, information sharing, etc, to protect against criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some organizations intentionally widen the divide, as opposed to integrating, Arab immigrants into the American Community.  In this case, the organization is inciting an alarmist view on the basis that surveillance practices, standardization of equipment, and the establishment of information sharing data frameworks by law enforcement at the local, state, national, and international levels are a means of repressing the general population.  It was using, by name, the US and Israel as examples of repressive regimes.  The claim is that repressive regimes use these advancements as a means to control the populations ("social control").
> 
> Lara Kiswani, is suggesting that an Orwellian society is evolving in the direction of a dystopia society that is undesirable → under a regime that is frightening in its oppression.  The implication is that the more advanced a law enforcement, security or counterintelligence; the more dystopia the society.
> 
> While this is a most interesting topic to discuss, this is the wrong place.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What was the point of that silly propaganda?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Charlotte Kates: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*



Wow.  Isn't she a useful idiot? 

Its hard to take someone like her seriously when she discusses exile communities and nations and doesn't count the Jewish people as one of them.  Because....Joooooooos.


----------



## Shusha

It really is difficult to wrap my head around the hypocrisy that Arab Palestinians living in exile have an absolute right to return (including having self-determination and sovereignty on those territories) while the Jewish people living in exile, having returned, are Imperialist colonizers.  

Those who follow this hypocrisy recognize it for what it is, of course.  Which is why they invented the "but they are not really Jews" silliness.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Charlotte Kates: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*



Charlotte Kates is obviously the prototypical self-hating, kuffar hating, far left whackjob you would idolize.

Charlotte Kates - Discover the Networks


Communist
Organizer for New Jersey Solidarity and Al-Awda
Co-chair of National Lawyers Guild's Middle East Subcommittee
Former leader of Rutgers University’s Palestine Solidarity Movement
Believes that Israel has no right to exist
Says that Israeli children are “legitimate” targets for Palestinian suicide bombers
Considers the U.S. to be a racist, imperialistic nation

Born in 1981, Charlotte Kates is an organizer with Al-Awda’s New York chapter and with New Jersey Solidarity-Activists for the Liberation of Palestine. A member of the Communist party since age 13, Kates identifies Lenin’s _State and Revolution_ as her favorite book. In 2006 she graduated from Rutgers University Law School, where she was a campus leader of the Palestine Solidarity Movement. Today she co-chairs the Middle East Subcommittee of the National Lawyers Guild.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Journalist Seumas Milne | The Guardian," Palestinians have every right to defend themselves."*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*A Call For Genocide*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *A Call For Genocide*


Hype! Nobody mentions killing anybody.

At least they know where Palestine is.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Call For Genocide*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hype! Nobody mentions killing anybody.
> 
> At least they know where Palestine is.
Click to expand...


Right. Genocide has nothing to do with killing. 

Such is the disease of the Islamic mind.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Call For Genocide*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hype! Nobody mentions killing anybody.
> 
> At least they know where Palestine is.
Click to expand...


You guys demand a Jew free state and use 'Palestinians' to refer to Arabs exclusively,
then when You scream _"from the river to the sea"_ how should I understand that?


----------



## Shusha

"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free".

Free from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians protest in Ramallah against the ‘Authority of Shame’*

While the protest was focused on demands that the PA end its punitive policies in Gaza, the chants heard during the march were indicative of a broader discontent with the Palestinian leadership.

The crowd chanted, “With our souls and blood, we will save you Gaza” and “Shame on you, you sold Gaza in dollars.”

Other chants referred to the PA as “the authority of shame,” called for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to step down, and denounced international negotiations. Some also called for an armed uprising against Israel.

Palestinians protest in Ramallah against the ‘Authority of Shame’


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians protest in Ramallah against the ‘Authority of Shame’*
> 
> While the protest was focused on demands that the PA end its punitive policies in Gaza, the chants heard during the march were indicative of a broader discontent with the Palestinian leadership.
> 
> The crowd chanted, “With our souls and blood, we will save you Gaza” and “Shame on you, you sold Gaza in dollars.”
> 
> Other chants referred to the PA as “the authority of shame,” called for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to step down, and denounced international negotiations. Some also called for an armed uprising against Israel.
> 
> Palestinians protest in Ramallah against the ‘Authority of Shame’



It appears that the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan with money and some prodding from the Shiite Iranian Mullocrats may want to end the Hudna with the fatah’istanians and settle an old score from their unfinished civil war. The Iranian Mullocrats would like nothing better than to write a welfare check payable to Hamas and watch the two groups of Sunni retrogrades slam away at one another. 

Allah knows best.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ahhh, the old Hamas canard again.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ahed Tamini -- the girl who fought back and lost.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, the old Hamas canard again.
Click to expand...


I understand you get infuriated when your Islamic terrorist heroes suffer another humiliating loss but you shoild be accustomed to that by now.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamini -- the girl who fought back and lost.
Click to expand...

Lost??? 

When Ahed was arrested, Israel was talking 20 years to life. But Israel settled for 8 months less 4 months time served. Why did that happen?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

It is all about political risk taking.



P F Tinmore said:


> Lost???
> 
> When Ahed was arrested, Israel was talking 20 years to life. But Israel settled for 8 months less 4 months time served. Why did that happen?


*(COMMENT)*

There are any number of reasons why this outcome came about.  Anything from establishing _bona fides_ for confidential informant, to making a deal with the local member(s) of the leading Arab Palestinian community.

These are types of events that cannot be fully understood at a distance.  But  the various negative resistance elements will never really be able to trust Ahed Tamimi.  The sentence of 20 years is nothing if the local Jihadist _(the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters)_ were to somehow learn or suspect that Tamimi provided inside information on local counterintelligence, police or security service targets.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Dr (Yousef) Munayyer is an extremely articulate and well versed pro-Palestinian Advocate.  I don't agree with him on every point, none the less, Dr Munayyer makes some very important point in this short video.



P F Tinmore said:


> Reference Yousef Munayyer video.


*(COMMENT)*

Just to discuss a few points:

•  Many times I have heard that the Jews control Congress.  Well → I agree with Dr Munayyer that the Israeli.Jewish Lobby does NOT control Congress.  It does exsert more influence over this one topic thenany other anti-Israel/Jew Lobby or the pro-Palestinian Lobby.

•  Public Opinion does shift.  And I agree, it would appear that so show some movement in the direction of the pro-Palestinian movements.  But I disagree on the cause of the shift.  The greatest of shifts is in the university campus arena.  That is because the anti-Israel/Jew Lobby is pressing the agenda on the sympathy level.  They want to promote the idea that they Arab Palestinian was treated unfairly, was invaded on a colonial level, and were victims of Zionist criminals.

•  Dr Munayyer makes the point that many discussioners (on both sides of the issues) suggest that the conflict has gone on since ancient times.  And I agree.  I  think that the focus should focus more on the decision made in the first half of the 20th Century; and why the Arab Palestinians have not accepted the outcomes of the conflicts.  Unlike Dr Munayyer, I believe that it is just rediculous to to argue the points on the basis that the dispute is not truly based upon a Arab Palestinian 'vs' Euro-Jewish conflicts.  The Euro-Jewish immigrant DID NOT invade the Region under discussion.  But rather, the Allied Powers with control over the region, saw a need to create a safe haven for the Jewish People (globally) so that the culture may be protected from the very threats it faced in WWII and what it faces today.

•  Dr Munayyer made the point that the immigration of Jewish _(mostly from East and South-East European Jews)_ was the proximate cause of the conflict.  This may be a view held by the Arab Palestinian; but certainly not by the Allied Powers with control over the territories throughout the old Ottoman Empire.  It was the Allied Powers, holding the title and rights surrendered by the old Empire, that made the determinations of the day.  At the conclusion of the Great War (WWI), it was unthinkable that the contituents of the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) could make demands on the victorious Allied Powers.​
One final notion that I think needs to be mentioned, that is often avoided.  The mandate covered the territory from the Mediterranean Sea to the Mesopotamia.  And 77% of that was immediately allocated as the Emirate of Jordan; populated mostly by Arab Palestinians.   When the Arab Palestinian say that 55% of the territory was allowed to the Jewish population and 45% to the Palestinian population --- they conveniently leave out the part that says 55% of the remaining 23% after the allocation to Jordan. This is just one example of the sympathy twist that is pulled by the Arab Palestinians. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Euro-Jewish immigrant DID NOT invade the Region under discussion. But rather, the Allied Powers with control over the region, saw a need to create a safe haven for the Jewish People


If people are brutalized and kicked out of their homes and country, the excuses really don't matter.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Euro-Jewish immigrant DID NOT invade the Region under discussion. But rather, the Allied Powers with control over the region, saw a need to create a safe haven for the Jewish People
> 
> 
> 
> If people are brutalized and kicked out of their homes and country, the excuses really don't matter.
Click to expand...


That would also apply to the Christians and Jews who have almost completely been purged from the Islamist Middle East.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Would that medic provide protection to Israelis as well.
 after her people rip their hearts out?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israelis pay much higher fees for water than those under Hamas and PLO control.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ahed Tamimi is sitting in jail for incitement to murder and suicide attacks.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Vile lies.  There is absolutely no evidence that non-combatants were deliberately targeted in Gaza, let alone medics.  

And wearing a white coat while acting as a combatant does not make you immune from response.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




There are so many non-truths in this its hard to know where to begin.  Let's start by saying that the water delivery system in Israel and Palestine is complex and no one on this board seems to know enough about it to speak intelligently on the matter, let alone debate it with me, so it becomes just another way of falsely accusing and demonizing Israel.

But let's start with a real simple question.  Whose responsibility is it to maintain the infrastructure for the water delivery system in Areas A and B?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



She was in an islamic gee-had zone. That's a dangerous place. 

How lucky for you. Another dead body you can parade around.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Buenos Aires, Argentina

In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.

Author: Horacio Menchaca
Photo Fernando Isas


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Buenos Aires, Argentina
> 
> In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.
> 
> Author: Horacio Menchaca
> Photo Fernando Isas



The day Tamimi becomes a political leader,
is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.

Couldn't have a better asset than a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatar to represent Arab aspirations outside of the peninsula.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires, Argentina
> 
> In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.
> 
> Author: Horacio Menchaca
> Photo Fernando Isas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader,
> is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Couldn't have a better asset than a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatar to represent Arab aspirations outside of the peninsula.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader, is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.


Maybe that would be a good thing.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires, Argentina
> 
> In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.
> 
> Author: Horacio Menchaca
> Photo Fernando Isas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader,
> is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Couldn't have a better asset than a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatar to represent Arab aspirations outside of the peninsula.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader, is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe that would be a good thing.
Click to expand...


Of course, makes it easier to expose the lies of Arab imperialism,
when a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatari is demanding another Jew-free Arab state outside of the peninsula.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires, Argentina
> 
> In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.
> 
> Author: Horacio Menchaca
> Photo Fernando Isas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader,
> is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Couldn't have a better asset than a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatar to represent Arab aspirations outside of the peninsula.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader, is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe that would be a good thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, makes it easier to expose the lies of Arab imperialism,
> when a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatari is demanding another Jew-free Arab state outside of the peninsula.
Click to expand...

The old farts in the PLO/PA are not going to be around long. They have been going off the rails since the 1970s and they sold out for Oslo. We will see some new leadership soon.

She is too young and inexperienced to get into leadership now. However, she is going to college this fall and I think she is going to study law. So in the future for sure.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buenos Aires, Argentina
> 
> In honor of the girl Ahed Tamimi, kidnapped by the State of Israel and sentenced to prison.
> 
> Author: Horacio Menchaca
> Photo Fernando Isas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader,
> is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Couldn't have a better asset than a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatar to represent Arab aspirations outside of the peninsula.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The day Tamimi becomes a political leader, is the day all of Palestinian historical narrative falls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe that would be a good thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, makes it easier to expose the lies of Arab imperialism,
> when a girl from the ruling tribe of Qatari is demanding another Jew-free Arab state outside of the peninsula.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The old farts in the PLO/PA are not going to be around long. They have been going off the rails since the 1970s and they sold out for Oslo. We will see some new leadership soon.
> 
> She is too young and inexperienced to get into leadership now. However, she is going to college this fall and I think she is going to study law. So in the future for sure.
Click to expand...


Wualaq, it's the first time I see Ahed mentioned in the context of  school activity.
From all the riots during the day that her parents took her to participate - the impression was that this was her main activity during the days.

However if Ahed is going abroad to study law, she should know that  inciting for murder and suicide attacks is a criminal offense,  if she keeps that she can find herself back in jail.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Wow she's actually crazy, pushing her phone in everyones face, walking on the road screaming at both Israelis and Palestinians, an Ambulance had to slow down because of this idiotic provocation.Just another example of why that road needs soldiers or police backup on a daily basis.

Is there a point in Tamimi's attempt to block the main road?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Professor Karma Nabulsi
* The Place of Collective Freedoms in a Democracy*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Is it more important to build Palestine or destroy Israel?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Get serious! You posted Info Wars? This guy would be lucky to have half of her intelligence.

*Linda Sarsour | Race in the U.S. | A free public course at The New School*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Rasha Nahas


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Daoud Nassar*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Piece by Islamist gee-had


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get serious! You posted Info Wars? This guy would be lucky to have half of her intelligence.
> 
> *Linda Sarsour | Race in the U.S. | A free public course at The New School*
> 
> **
Click to expand...



islamists...like the taliban for example - to them, she's an outcast 

 

For one, her face isn't covered and 2, she's wearing make-up. and 3...she lives here in america.  she wouldn't want to EVER leave america and go practice islam in any of those backward, 2-bit RAT-hole muslim countries...


.

let her go and try to run for office in he middle east..............she's just lucky to live on american soil and practice her....culture....[in her case, islam light].


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*» Upending the Palestinian Leadership: The Role of Youth– IMEMC News*


----------



## P F Tinmore

» Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News







A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.

Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.

He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel, Gaza, and the American Jewish Awakening*

**
**
**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.




A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.  

In other words -- I call bullshit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
Click to expand...

OK then, where is it from?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
Click to expand...


Ok, so you just mindlessly cut and paste images from the web.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so you just mindlessly cut and paste images from the web.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so you just mindlessly cut and paste images from the web.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Your usual deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, .



Khirbet Beit Lei is an ancient Jewish village, how can Israelis be colonizers there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so you just mindlessly cut and paste images from the web.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so you just mindlessly cut and paste images from the web.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


Your usual deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ziowood video by Israel's premier bullshit organization.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ziowood video by Israel's premier bullshit organization.
Click to expand...


Nice duck. It's funny to watch you try and defend islamic fascists,


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
Click to expand...


Shrug.  Do your own research.  And post better quality demonizations of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shrug.  Do your own research.  And post better quality demonizations of Israel.
Click to expand...

IOW, you are just blowing smoke out your ass.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> » Israeli Colonizers Cut 200 Olive Trees Near Bethlehem– IMEMC News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A group of illegal Israeli colonizers invaded, Thursday, Palestinian olive orchards in Khirbet Beit Iskariya village, southwest of Bethlehem, in the occupied West Bank, and cut 200 trees.
> 
> Hasan Breijiyya, the coordinator of the Popular Committee against the Annexation Wall and Colonies in Bethlehem, said the Israeli assailants cut at least 200 olive trees, owned by Kamil Khalil Sa’ad and ‘Amer Hussein Odah.
> 
> He stated that the attack is second of its kind in less than two weeks and added that the village is subject to frequent violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick google search of this image reveals it has been used more than once over the past several years and is supposedly from any one of a number of different villages.
> 
> In other words -- I call bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK then, where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shrug.  Do your own research.  And post better quality demonizations of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, you are just blowing smoke out your ass.
Click to expand...


IOW, you've been called out on using a story which is bullshit and don't want to bother doing the work to research actual facts but only want to zealously demonize Israel using fake news.  I don't know why I am surprised, since you ignore large sections of law and misrepresent other large sections.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

All grown up to die for gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Letters from the Dark Ages


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Mitri Raheb :Seven Things You Never Knew About Palestine And The Palestinians*

**


----------



## Hollie

One more thing you already knew about Arab-Moslem retrogrades.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another pious islamic cleric.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Sansour and the heart breaking story of "Open Bethlehem"*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Linda Sarsour on the heart breaking story of her mental illness described as Islamism. 


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Stones Cry Out – Yasmine Perni’s movie about Palestine’s Christians*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TRAILER: THE STONES CRY OUT - THE STORY OF THE PALESTINIAN CHRISTIANS*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Though I Know the River is Dry [short film, Palestine, 2013]*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Vivien Sansour*

*Field Visit: Agri-Cluture and resistance visit to Dier Balut*

**


----------



## Hollie

*The mentally defective cry out 


*


----------



## Hollie

*Field visit: islamic terrorist behavior modification


*


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Letters from the Dark Ages










The subtitles  - on the one hand, i know you prefer 

 non-propaganda stuff....hoping it was translated word-for-psycho-word, on the other hand, you know, the words on the screen could have been manipulated - but, i believe it is what it is, and you wouldn't post it if it wasn't legitimate, because it wouldn't be the first time...







 ...ramblings like this come from an 

 islamic cleric...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie,  et al,

I think that a necessary first step to prevent and counteract the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in propaganda activities such as that furthered by Linda Sarsour is to press for a prosecutorial investigation as considered under the 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism.

*(COMMENT)*

To understand Linda Sarsour, you have to understand that she operates under the banner of a pro-Islamic Political Activist and Muslim Civil Rights Leaders.  She is doing her duty, as she sees it, and for the notoriety, it brings, in acquiring media attention and focus.  This is in keeping with the Agenda of including the media, public and legal [spheres]



			
				Khaled Meshal said:
			
		

> Hamas'Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.





			
				Article 30 HAMAS Covenant (1988)  said:
			
		

> Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.



The Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters see this type of media manipulation as an alternative strategic front in the Armed Struggle against the decisions of the Allied Powers and the establishment of the Jewish National Home and to manipulate public opinion in favor of State support for designated Jihadis (all).

And to be quite honest, they are doing a good job of pulling in the sympathy cards, attempting to mitigate their criminal behaviors (See *Posting #477* - RE: corrupt US government blocks UN from having an independent investigation into 61 murdered Palestine).  They present themselves as the very epitome of a casted Hollywood style victim.   It won't be long before the fantasy world of Lions Gate and Universal will be calling them for starring roles in the "The Four Horsemen of the Jihadist." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What Makes this Palestinian School a Top Performer?*

**


----------



## Hollie

More top performers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Councilman Jumaane Williams debates over Linda Sarour speech*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Why the criminal class hates Linda Sarsour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children\*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Follow your inner gee-had, from the safety of the _Great Satan


_


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children\*



Ya' allah, dude. Leave the teenage girls alone.

It's creepy. 

Stop it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TEDxRamallah - Khaled Al Sabawi - Keeping Palestine Cool: A Different Kind of Underground Movement*

**


----------



## Hollie

Addressing the islamic terrorist underground movement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How can poetry express Palestinian resistance? *

**


----------



## Hollie

How can an Egyptian court express islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas Death Cult Cleric - if my words...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Government conferring 'permission to hate' Muslims: Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*This is Palestine -art workshop for children -by samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## Hollie

*
Arab-Moslem workshop for children


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*How Islam made me a Death Cultist

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Museum. An empty shell.


----------



## Hollie

*Gee-had denied, chump. 



Palestinian terrorist blows himself up preparing explosives

Palestinian terrorist blows himself up preparing explosives*

*
Palestinian terrorist blows himself up preparing explosives
 June 14, 2018





Israeli police at the Shua'afat refugee camp. (Hadas Parush/Flash90)
A bomb that went off prematurely in the Shu’afat Refugee Camp in Jerusalem critically injured one person.

By: World Israel News Staff

A bomb that was in the process of being prepared in an apartment at the Shu’afat refugee camp in Jerusalem exploded prematurely late Wednesday night, causing a massive explosion.

One person was critically injured in the explosion and was taken to a hospital for treatment.

Israel Police found further explosive material at the site of the blast.

Police forces arrested eight suspects and took them for questioning.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Berlin


----------



## Hollie

Gaza'istan


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

As usual it is Israeli goontards attacking unarmed civilians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> As usual it is Israeli goontards attacking unarmed civilians.



That's funny. Another Pallywood style staged confrontation.

Al-fake protest.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist acting school.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel is always the aggressor.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:    Palestine Today
※→    P F Tinmore, et al,

For those people, whether individually or collectively, want to make self/group improvements, it is not an easy task.  This is especially true if those who always evaluate that the problems and obstacles are always someone else’s fault.

In the case of the Arab Palestinians, especially demonstrated in the last few videos, them to project “a grandiose sense of self-importance" → coupled with the "always someone else’s fault" (Israel or the UK or the UN) excuse' and very reactive to any real criticism.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is always the aggressor.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes , the phrase "Israel is always the aggressor" is one such Narcissistic characteristic.  And in the case of the Arab Palestinian, no conversation for more than half a minute without the Arab Palestinian claim and sense of entitlement for one "right" or another.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:    Palestine Today
> ※→    P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> For those people, whether individually or collectively, want to make self/group improvements, it is not an easy task.  This is especially true if those who always evaluate that the problems and obstacles are always someone else’s fault.
> 
> In the case of the Arab Palestinians, especially demonstrated in the last few videos, them to project “a grandiose sense of self-importance" → coupled with the "always someone else’s fault" (Israel or the UK or the UN) excuse' and very reactive to any real criticism.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is always the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes , the phrase "Israel is always the aggressor" is one such Narcissistic characteristic.  And in the case of the Arab Palestinian, no conversation for more than half a minute without the Arab Palestinian claim and sense of entitlement for one "right" or another.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Yes , the phrase "Israel is always the aggressor" is one such Narcissistic characteristic.


Stupid statement.

The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today. That cannot happen without violence. It is impossible. You can't get people to leave their homes, farms, and businesses by saying please.

BTW, what did you think about Hanan Ashrawi's press conference?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> You can't get people to leave their homes, farms, and businesses by saying please.



Arab-Moslem conquest and colonialism has been achieved through war and belligerent acts. Those tactics have not been effective against Israel. Acts of Islamic terrorism will not force Israelis to leave their homes, farms, and businesses.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is always the aggressor.



Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today.



Right. Sure. Because if you take a look at all the nations of the ME which used to have mixed ethnic populations of both Jews and Arabs only Israel has been successfully cleansed of all of the other ethnic group. 

Oh. Wait.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today.



Being fact-averse makes your comments truly inane.

Isreal has a demonstrated history of returning / trading land in exchange for peace effectively redefining its borders. The State of Israel has returned and withdrawn from captured territory greater than the size of Israel itself-- the Sinai, land east of the Golan, southern Lebanon, Gaza, etc. let's remember that the lands Israel has captured were the result of Arab-islamist wars of aggression in which the Islamist aggressors suffered humiliating losses.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Tribal wars of liberation.


*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:    Palestine Today
※→    P F Tinmore, et al,

The Palestinian Hanan Ashrawi is a political legislator, Hostile Abar Palestinian activist, supporting a terrorist state.  She is not a staff officer of the UN.



P F Tinmore said:


> Stupid statement.
> 
> The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today. That cannot happen without violence. It is impossible. You can't get people to leave their homes, farms, and businesses by saying please.
> 
> BTW, what did you think about Hanan Ashrawi's press conference?


*(COMMENT)*

She talks about many things, packed and compressed, and attempting to relate it to violations of the War Crime Article in the ICC Statute; and accusing America of being complicit  For Reference, the topic on annexation of territory is addressed in "Article 8 Bis"_(latin abbreviation meaning "twice" --- or an addition)_.  

*✪  NOTE:* _The Court could not add it as a separate Article 9 because Artice is use for "Elements of an Offense."_​
Even if Israel was in violation (which it is not) it would not be a "War Crime;" (emotional wording in a plea for sympathy) it would fall under the "Crimes of Aggression."



Article 8 bis - Crime of aggression - Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"
The invasion or attack by the armed forces of a State of the territory of another State said:


> *Introduction*
> 1.  It is understood that any of the acts referred to in article 8 bis, paragraph 2, qualify as an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to whether the use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 3.  The term “manifest” is an objective qualification.
> 
> 4.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to the “manifest” nature of the violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> *Elements*
> 1.  The perpetrator planned, prepared, initiated or executed an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  The perpetrator was a person in a position effectively to exercise control over or to direct the political or military action of the State which committed the act of aggression.
> 
> 3.  The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.
> 
> 4.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established that such a use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 5.  The act of aggression, by its character, gravity and scale, constituted a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 6.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established such a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​



✪  Kinga Tibori Szabó (22 August 2011). _Anticipatory Action in Self-Defence: Essence and Limits under International Law_. Springer Science & Business Media. pp. 147, 148. ISBN 978-90-6704-796-8. (p. 147) The sequence of events that led to the Israeli pre-emptive strike did indeed create a situation where an armed attack seemed unavoidable. (p. 148 ) Many commentators treat it (the six-day war) as the *locus classicus of anticipatory action in self defence."*

✪  John Quigley (17 December 2012). _The Six-Day War and Israeli Self-Defense: Questioning the Legal Basis for Preventive War_. Cambridge University Press. pp. 135–. ISBN 978-1-139-62049-9. Terence Taylor…wrote in 2004…that "many scholars" considered Israel to have *"conducted the (1967) action in anticipatory of self-defense."*
​There is no question in my mind that Posting #3647  Palestine Today speaks directly to people like Hanan Ashrawi and her press conference.  Some people might listen to her more if she did not make these "I'm a victim" plea every five minutes, the cry --- we are being beaten, whipped, shot and killed in situations where the Hostile Arab Palestinian was blameless.

*(Application of Palestinian Narcissism)*

Palestinian Narcissistic Disorder (PND) are those that a lack of empathy for other people (Human Shields), and a need for the world to see them as heroic freedom fighters. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered _(Palestinian want all of the 1922 Palestine), manipulative (just like in Hanan Ashrawi Press Conference)_, and demanding (Pre-Conditions for Peace Talks). They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies _(e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance)_ and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment -- they are free to use terrorist tactist and are exempt from the IHL Rule 97. These characteristics typically begin in early adulthood and must be consistently evident in multiple contexts, such as at work and in relationships. 

Palestinians with narcissistic personality disorder believe they are superior or special _(indigenous with inalienable rights)_, and often try to assemble idealist follower that believe they are unique or gifted in some way. This process (Televison and Radio appearances, YouTube Videos (improving their self-esteem), all of which is a plea for sympathy the surface. with difficulty tolerating suggested political shifts, criticism or defeat; much like P F Tinmore's insistence that the Palestinians have not lost anything (especially territory).   
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Political Zionism and the Roots of Palestinian Dispossession*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:    Palestine Today
> ※→    P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Palestinian Hanan Ashrawi is a political legislator, Hostile Abar Palestinian activist, supporting a terrorist state.  She is not a staff officer of the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid statement.
> 
> The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today. That cannot happen without violence. It is impossible. You can't get people to leave their homes, farms, and businesses by saying please.
> 
> BTW, what did you think about Hanan Ashrawi's press conference?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She talks about many things, packed and compressed, and attempting to relate it to violations of the War Crime Article in the ICC Statute; and accusing America of being complicit  For Reference, the topic on annexation of territory is addressed in "Article 8 Bis"_(latin abbreviation meaning "twice" --- or an addition)_.
> 
> *✪  NOTE:* _The Court could not add it as a separate Article 9 because Artice is use for "Elements of an Offense."_​
> Even if Israel was in violation (which it is not) it would not be a "War Crime;" (emotional wording in a plea for sympathy) it would fall under the "Crimes of Aggression."
> 
> 
> 
> Article 8 bis - Crime of aggression - Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"
> The invasion or attack by the armed forces of a State of the territory of another State said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Introduction*
> 1.  It is understood that any of the acts referred to in article 8 bis, paragraph 2, qualify as an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to whether the use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 3.  The term “manifest” is an objective qualification.
> 
> 4.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to the “manifest” nature of the violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​*Elements*
> 1.  The perpetrator planned, prepared, initiated or executed an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  The perpetrator was a person in a position effectively to exercise control over or to direct the political or military action of the State which committed the act of aggression.
> 
> 3.  The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.
> 
> 4.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established that such a use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 5.  The act of aggression, by its character, gravity and scale, constituted a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 6.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established such a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ✪  Kinga Tibori Szabó (22 August 2011). _Anticipatory Action in Self-Defence: Essence and Limits under International Law_. Springer Science & Business Media. pp. 147, 148. ISBN 978-90-6704-796-8. (p. 147) The sequence of events that led to the Israeli pre-emptive strike did indeed create a situation where an armed attack seemed unavoidable. (p. 148 ) Many commentators treat it (the six-day war) as the *locus classicus of anticipatory action in self defence."*
> 
> ✪  John Quigley (17 December 2012). _The Six-Day War and Israeli Self-Defense: Questioning the Legal Basis for Preventive War_. Cambridge University Press. pp. 135–. ISBN 978-1-139-62049-9. Terence Taylor…wrote in 2004…that "many scholars" considered Israel to have *"conducted the (1967) action in anticipatory of self-defense."*
> ​There is no question in my mind that Posting #3647  Palestine Today speaks directly to people like Hanan Ashrawi and her press conference.  Some people might listen to her more if she did not make these "I'm a victim" plea every five minutes, the cry --- we are being beaten, whipped, shot and killed in situations where the Hostile Arab Palestinian was blameless.
> 
> *(Application of Palestinian Narcissism)*
> 
> Palestinian Narcissistic Disorder (PND) are those that a lack of empathy for other people (Human Shields), and a need for the world to see them as heroic freedom fighters. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered _(Palestinian want all of the 1922 Palestine), manipulative (just like in Hanan Ashrawi Press Conference)_, and demanding (Pre-Conditions for Peace Talks). They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies _(e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance)_ and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment -- they are free to use terrorist tactist and are exempt from the IHL Rule 97. These characteristics typically begin in early adulthood and must be consistently evident in multiple contexts, such as at work and in relationships.
> 
> Palestinians with narcissistic personality disorder believe they are superior or special _(indigenous with inalienable rights)_, and often try to assemble idealist follower that believe they are unique or gifted in some way. This process (Televison and Radio appearances, YouTube Videos (improving their self-esteem), all of which is a plea for sympathy the surface. with difficulty tolerating suggested political shifts, criticism or defeat; much like P F Tinmore's insistence that the Palestinians have not lost anything (especially territory).
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman! WTF is with all the slime? You did hit on the root of the problem though.

3. The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.​
Of course this involves the rights that the UN has reaffirmed belong to the Palestinians. There are no parallel resolutions for the Israelis.

The Palestinians (all civilians) are attacked by a foreign military, land stolen, assets stolen or destroyed, and if they complain they are arrested or killed. There are some other issues but this is the main problem.


----------



## theliq

TrueTT said:


> I, for one, am sick and tired of the nauseating Palestinian cries for help.
> 
> Muslims want to wage Jihad and conquer non-Muslims- claiming that Allah has endowed them with the capabilities to do so.
> 
> So then, why exactly do you cry and cry and cry more when your efforts to conquer are to no avail? The Arabs aren't capable of defeating the Israeli Jews so instead they try and whine their way into an international settlement?
> 
> Pathetic cretins. Man up and put your money where your obnoxious mouths are.


Your Avie says it all.....TOSSER


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr.Mustafa Barghouti says relying on the US has failed completely*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:    Palestine Today
※→    P F Tinmore, et al,

Popularity _(by the cowards together with the anti-Jewish bias in the UN)_ and the application of selective justice _(under the color of law)_ are not productive paths towards peace.  This was the path of violence → fueled by the three major interlocking energies of the Arab Palestinian terrorism-oriented facet government

✪  The thirst for power disguised as national liberation movement;
✪  The use of violence and threats to coerce a people and leadership;
✪  The Intimidation of a population → or → acts which compel a government to do or to abstain from doing any act,​
REMEMBER:  The UN security council considered the defense against terrorism as [S/RES/1566 (2004) SECURITY COUNCIL ACTS CONDEMNING TERRORISM AS ONE OF MOST SERIOUS THREATS] as “_Acting_ under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations."



P F Tinmore said:


> Holy smokescreen, Batman! WTF is with all the slime? You did hit on the root of the problem though.
> 
> 3. The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.​
> Of course, this involves the rights that the UN has reaffirmed belong to the Palestinians. There are no parallel resolutions for the Israelis.
> 
> The Palestinians (all civilians) are attacked by a foreign military, land was stolen, assets stolen or destroyed, and if they complain they are arrested or killed. There are some other issues but this is the main problem.


*(COMMENT)*

I read in the International Review of the Red Cross (Volume 88 Number 864 December 2006) that there are:

"nearly fifty offences, including some ten crimes against civil aviation, some sixteen crimes against shipping or continental platforms, a dozen crimes against the person, seven crimes involving the use, possession or threatened use of ‘‘bombs’’ or nuclear materials, and two crimes concerning the financing of terrorism. There is a tendency to consider these treaties as establishing a sort of evolving code of terrorist offences."​
The Security Council "By the unanimous adoption of resolution 1566 (2004), the Council recalled that criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror, or compel a government or international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act which contravened terrorism-related conventions and protocols, were not justifiable for any reason –- whether of a political, philosophical ideological, racial, ethnic or religious nature."  This concept has a very long history, but most resemble Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Part of this is about the Hostile Arab Palestinians trying desperately to make a link between Israel taking something from the Arab Palestinians (as an act of aggression).  However, as they fail to disclose (not in good faith) the Israelis already had control of the entirety of the two territories and Jerusalem before the State of Palestine was recognized in A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the United Nations:

Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;

Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;​
ψ  BUT, the question here is:  When did the State of Israel take away any territory under the Sovereignty of the State of Palestine?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:    Palestine Today
> ※→    P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Popularity _(by the cowards together with the anti-Jewish bias in the UN)_ and the application of selective justice _(under the color of law)_ are not productive paths towards peace.  This was the path of violence → fueled by the three major interlocking energies of the Arab Palestinian terrorism-oriented facet government
> 
> ✪  The thirst for power disguised as national liberation movement;
> ✪  The use of violence and threats to coerce a people and leadership;
> ✪  The Intimidation of a population → or → acts which compel a government to do or to abstain from doing any act,​
> REMEMBER:  The UN security council considered the defense against terrorism as [S/RES/1566 (2004) SECURITY COUNCIL ACTS CONDEMNING TERRORISM AS ONE OF MOST SERIOUS THREATS] as “_Acting_ under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman! WTF is with all the slime? You did hit on the root of the problem though.
> 
> 3. The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.​
> Of course, this involves the rights that the UN has reaffirmed belong to the Palestinians. There are no parallel resolutions for the Israelis.
> 
> The Palestinians (all civilians) are attacked by a foreign military, land was stolen, assets stolen or destroyed, and if they complain they are arrested or killed. There are some other issues but this is the main problem.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I read in the International Review of the Red Cross (Volume 88 Number 864 December 2006) that there are:
> 
> "nearly fifty offences, including some ten crimes against civil aviation, some sixteen crimes against shipping or continental platforms, a dozen crimes against the person, seven crimes involving the use, possession or threatened use of ‘‘bombs’’ or nuclear materials, and two crimes concerning the financing of terrorism. There is a tendency to consider these treaties as establishing a sort of evolving code of terrorist offences."​
> The Security Council "By the unanimous adoption of resolution 1566 (2004), the Council recalled that criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror, or compel a government or international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act which contravened terrorism-related conventions and protocols, were not justifiable for any reason –- whether of a political, philosophical ideological, racial, ethnic or religious nature."  This concept has a very long history, but most resemble Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> Part of this is about the Hostile Arab Palestinians trying desperately to make a link between Israel taking something from the Arab Palestinians (as an act of aggression).  However, as they fail to disclose (not in good faith) the Israelis already had control of the entirety of the two territories and Jerusalem before the State of Palestine was recognized in A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the United Nations:
> 
> Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;
> 
> Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;​
> ψ  BUT, the question here is:  When did the State of Israel take away any territory under the Sovereignty of the State of Palestine?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so now are you going to address my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr.Mustafa Barghouti says relying on the US has failed completely*
> 
> **


Of course it has,but I for one are not surprised Tinnie and neither are you,friend…..being as Trump and the US are now Officially ISRAELS DOORMAT


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:    Palestine Today
> ※→    P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Palestinian Hanan Ashrawi is a political legislator, Hostile Abar Palestinian activist, supporting a terrorist state.  She is not a staff officer of the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid statement.
> 
> The Zionist goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. They still pursue that goal today. That cannot happen without violence. It is impossible. You can't get people to leave their homes, farms, and businesses by saying please.
> 
> BTW, what did you think about Hanan Ashrawi's press conference?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> She talks about many things, packed and compressed, and attempting to relate it to violations of the War Crime Article in the ICC Statute; and accusing America of being complicit  For Reference, the topic on annexation of territory is addressed in "Article 8 Bis"_(latin abbreviation meaning "twice" --- or an addition)_.
> 
> *✪  NOTE:* _The Court could not add it as a separate Article 9 because Artice is use for "Elements of an Offense."_​
> Even if Israel was in violation (which it is not) it would not be a "War Crime;" (emotional wording in a plea for sympathy) it would fall under the "Crimes of Aggression."
> 
> 
> 
> Article 8 bis - Crime of aggression - Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"
> The invasion or attack by the armed forces of a State of the territory of another State said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Introduction*
> 1.  It is understood that any of the acts referred to in article 8 bis, paragraph 2, qualify as an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to whether the use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 3.  The term “manifest” is an objective qualification.
> 
> 4.  There is no requirement to prove that the perpetrator has made a legal evaluation as to the “manifest” nature of the violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​*Elements*
> 1.  The perpetrator planned, prepared, initiated or executed an act of aggression.
> 
> 2.  The perpetrator was a person in a position effectively to exercise control over or to direct the political or military action of the State which committed the act of aggression.
> 
> 3.  The act of aggression – the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations – was committed.
> 
> 4.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established that such a use of armed force was inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 5.  The act of aggression, by its character, gravity and scale, constituted a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> 6.  The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established such a manifest violation of the Charter of the United Nations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ✪  Kinga Tibori Szabó (22 August 2011). _Anticipatory Action in Self-Defence: Essence and Limits under International Law_. Springer Science & Business Media. pp. 147, 148. ISBN 978-90-6704-796-8. (p. 147) The sequence of events that led to the Israeli pre-emptive strike did indeed create a situation where an armed attack seemed unavoidable. (p. 148 ) Many commentators treat it (the six-day war) as the *locus classicus of anticipatory action in self defence."*
> 
> ✪  John Quigley (17 December 2012). _The Six-Day War and Israeli Self-Defense: Questioning the Legal Basis for Preventive War_. Cambridge University Press. pp. 135–. ISBN 978-1-139-62049-9. Terence Taylor…wrote in 2004…that "many scholars" considered Israel to have *"conducted the (1967) action in anticipatory of self-defense."*
> ​There is no question in my mind that Posting #3647  Palestine Today speaks directly to people like Hanan Ashrawi and her press conference.  Some people might listen to her more if she did not make these "I'm a victim" plea every five minutes, the cry --- we are being beaten, whipped, shot and killed in situations where the Hostile Arab Palestinian was blameless.
> 
> *(Application of Palestinian Narcissism)*
> 
> Palestinian Narcissistic Disorder (PND) are those that a lack of empathy for other people (Human Shields), and a need for the world to see them as heroic freedom fighters. People with this condition are frequently described as arrogant, self-centered _(Palestinian want all of the 1922 Palestine), manipulative (just like in Hanan Ashrawi Press Conference)_, and demanding (Pre-Conditions for Peace Talks). They may also concentrate on grandiose fantasies _(e.g. their own success, beauty, brilliance)_ and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment -- they are free to use terrorist tactist and are exempt from the IHL Rule 97. These characteristics typically begin in early adulthood and must be consistently evident in multiple contexts, such as at work and in relationships.
> 
> Palestinians with narcissistic personality disorder believe they are superior or special _(indigenous with inalienable rights)_, and often try to assemble idealist follower that believe they are unique or gifted in some way. This process (Televison and Radio appearances, YouTube Videos (improving their self-esteem), all of which is a plea for sympathy the surface. with difficulty tolerating suggested political shifts, criticism or defeat; much like P F Tinmore's insistence that the Palestinians have not lost anything (especially territory).
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What mindless lies and rubbish you spew,without respect...theliquidator


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Fun and games in the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult we know.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah - The Battle for Justice in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

Muhammedan Justice.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Siege, censorship, subversion: International assault on Palestine *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The usual slime from the usual cast of characters.

*Book talk: "Injustice: The Story of the Holy Land Foundation Five"*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The usual slime from the usual cast of characters.
> 
> *Book talk: "Injustice: The Story of the Holy Land Foundation Five"*
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. What you need to understand is that here in the _Great Satan_™️, your preferred sharia is subordinate to the law of the evil kuffar.




Your heroes can pray to Mecca, looking past the toilet from cell block C.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Siege, censorship, subversion: International assault on Palestine *
> 
> **



The tugging on emotions is over the top in this one.  Its ridiculous.  I only watched a few minutes. "Die quietly or get shot".  Please.  Couldn't stomach more than that.  It occurs to me though, that perhaps since bomb kites are harmless that Israel should respond tit-for-tat and we can have a kite war.  Sorry -- a kite peaceful protest.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



These people are living in strange dreams as some Israelis do.
If they wanna work the land they should join Israel and tell them_ "let's support You in Your struggle for Your land Israel, if anything You are the ones who can assure us the most wealth of land and territory to live sparsely, each in a vila  with their herd."_ But Arabs fight Israel knowingly that they'll turn it into another middle eastern 3-world country.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Women around the world have been and are continuing to have these struggles to get out from under a patriarchy which limits their existence.  Only in "Palestine" is this global issue blamed on the Joooooos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Israel Can Do No Wrong w/ Max Blumenthal & Dan Cohen*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * Israel Can Do No Wrong w/ Max Blumenthal & Dan Cohen*
> 
> **



What's the definition of a red herring?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women around the world have been and are continuing to have these struggles to get out from under a patriarchy which limits their existence.  Only in "Palestine" is this global issue blamed on the Joooooos.
Click to expand...


Actually they say it openly that their problem is "Jahud" (Jews), the western PC teams automatically translate it into "settlers" in most of the media.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women around the world have been and are continuing to have these struggles to get out from under a patriarchy which limits their existence.  Only in "Palestine" is this global issue blamed on the Joooooos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually they say it openly that their problem is "Jahud" (Jews), the western PC teams automatically translate it into "settlers" in most of the media.
Click to expand...


That is interesting.  Though not surprising at all.


----------



## rylah

*Sheikh Abdallah Tamimi in a meeting with Gush Atziyon*.


One of the heads of Hebron Arab community basically talks about a preference in dealing with a right wing govt. Talks about alternative forums based on religious direct conversation between Sheikhs and Jewish elders. And a need to create instruments for constructive relations between  average Israeli population and the population in the surrounding Arab nations.
Yes and that's a Tamimi sheikh.


Something the media will never mention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Killing Gaza” with Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Wealth in Gaza’istan.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians in Ramallah protest the PA imposed sanctions on the Gaza Strip and the security collaboration with the Israeli Occupation.

*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians in Ramallah protest the PA imposed sanctions on the Gaza Strip and the security collaboration with the Israeli Occupation.*



You poor, dear. Feeling the affects of reduced funding for the UNRWA welfare fraud?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Live by the gee-had, die by the gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Love and support from Switzerland


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Genocide?

Not that old slogan, again.


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


>




"Palestine"  is a fallacy.  It doesn't really exist.  It's not even a real country.  It is merely a region of the world occupied by people who call themselves "Palestinian" because they are there, left to their machinations as much as possible by those around them out of fatigue and tolerance and an effort to as much as possible try to keep the peace with the rest of the planet.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

toobfreak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine"  is a fallacy.  It doesn't really exist.  It's not even a real country.  It is merely a region of the world occupied by people who call themselves "Palestinian" because they are there, left to their machinations as much as possible by those around them out of fatigue and tolerance and an effort to as much as possible try to keep the peace with the rest of the planet.
Click to expand...




toobfreak said:


> It's not even a real country.


Link?


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine"  is a fallacy.  It doesn't really exist.  It's not even a real country.  It is merely a region of the world occupied by people who call themselves "Palestinian" because they are there, left to their machinations as much as possible by those around them out of fatigue and tolerance and an effort to as much as possible try to keep the peace with the rest of the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not even a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


How does one engage 3,000 posts on a topic and still need a link to it?

Palestine is a *geographic region* in Western Asia. It is *usually considered* to include the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Israel, and in some definitions, some parts of western Jordan.

The boundaries of the region have changed throughout history. Today, the region comprises the State of Israel and the Palestinian territories.

The "Palestine State" is nothing but a bunch of small, fragmented areas that by definition, INCLUDES Israel.

Palestine (region) - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

Activists in Brussels express their solidarity with #Palestine by placing 4,500 pairs of shoes in front of the European Union Council in Brussels to memorialize the Palestinians killed by Israeli occupation since 2008/2009 aggression on #Gaza.


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> Activists in Brussels express their solidarity with #Palestine by placing 4,500 pairs of shoes in front of the European Union Council in Brussels/QUOTE]



More idiots with far too much time on their hands who need to get a real job but obviously don't have one.  ACTIVIST:  code-word for unemployed worker hired to carry out someone else's political agenda for minor remunerations.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Activists in Brussels express their solidarity with #Palestine by placing 4,500 pairs of shoes in front of the European Union Council in Brussels to memorialize the Palestinians killed by Israeli occupation since 2008/2009 aggression on #Gaza.



Islamic terrorism carries consequences. 

All those dead Arabs-Moslems are money in the bank for the Hamas leadership. 

It's what Allah wants.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Belfast


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Belfast




If only Arabs-Moslems could reform their violent, retrograde ideology, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hamburg


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another shiftless, UNRWA welfare recipient, right?


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


No link, eh? 

I suppose you're entirely comfortable with being a cut and paste spammer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gee whiz, sweetie. It looks like you’re plumbing the bowels of the Internet to find twitter feeds from rabid, like-minded Joooooo haters to promote your collective Joooooo hatreds.


----------



## Shusha

There ought to be a rule on this forum against posting unsourced photos without comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*



Here’s a narrative.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*
> 
> **





Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another shiftless, UNRWA welfare recipient, right?
Click to expand...


What is that? Can he prove it wasn’t staged?? Even if there was a “ link” so what?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh on building online communities*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A message from Laila Al Marayati chairwoman of KinderUSA SD*

**


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


> *A message from Laila Al Marayati chairwoman of KinderUSA SD*
> 
> **



Ms Marayati, it is Israel not Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



It’s allah’s way of telling you to reconsider your life choices.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



More like demonstrating another phony Pallywood Studios staged confrontation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **



She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.

She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.

Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
Click to expand...

Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
Click to expand...


She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.  

Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gulf News tabloid! gets up close and personal with Mohammad Assaf*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gulf News tabloid! gets up close and personal with Mohammad Assaf*



Another gee-had screeching wannabe?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Naim Ateek - Student Voices for Palestine Notre Dame*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Naim Ateek - Student Voices for Palestine Notre Dame*



An empty room full of hollow bluster for the vacant minded Islamists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Trailer: Christians of Palestine, Life Behind the Wall*

**


----------



## Hollie

Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.


Every single report like this is from an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
Click to expand...


Why are you even bothering? Just sit back and enjoy the fact that he hates Israel’s existence.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single report like this is from an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


As you cut and paste YouTube videos from PressTV and Pallywood Productions, your opinions on propaganda are rather laughable.


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you even bothering? Just sit back and enjoy the fact that he hates Israel’s existence.
Click to expand...


And it haunts every minute of his tortured, miserable existence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are you even bothering? Just sit back and enjoy the fact that he hates Israel’s existence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And it haunts every minute of his tortured, miserable existence.
Click to expand...

Not really. I am a neutral observer with no connection to either side.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat calls for participation in Toulouse protest of Israeli ambassador*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single report like this is from an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


Your 2nd totally contradicts the 1st one.
Seems like Christians are not allowed to speak freely in Muslim communities, and try to distance themselves in Christian only towns.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khaled Barakat calls for participation in Toulouse protest of Israeli ambassador*
> 
> **



Arabs are demanding a Jews free state and try to silence Israelis,
I just hope the French are looking at this closely to learn what their future looks like.

Let's see French ambassador visit one of those mini-Caliphate zones in his country.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Christian & Muslim Relations in the West Bank and Gaza*
> 
> **



That Christian shop-owners who sell alcohol are being systematically harassed in mixed Christian-Muslim villages is common knowledge.

You won't hear about that on the news, because people are afraid of any intervention.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single report like this is from an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 2nd totally contradicts the 1st one.
> Seems like Christians are not allowed to speak freely in Muslim communities, and try to distance themselves in Christian only towns.
Click to expand...

The so called "PA" is not the legal government in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Yet another video from an Israeli propaganda organization. What else you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.


Nobody has ever proven otherwise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Response to Christian Zionism*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Response to Christian Zionism*
> 
> **



Islamist propaganda. Is that all you have?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
Click to expand...


It's been proven otherwise. You have never disproved it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Christians being persecuted by the Islamic fascists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single report like this is from an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 2nd totally contradicts the 1st one.
> Seems like Christians are not allowed to speak freely in Muslim communities, and try to distance themselves in Christian only towns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The so called "PA" is not the legal government in Palestine.
Click to expand...


How does that relate to discrimination against Christians in Arab-Muslim majority cities?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
Click to expand...


You have yet to disprove that by an act of international law sovereignty over all of the land was vested with the Jewish nation.

There You go.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
Click to expand...


Actually, we have time and again.  But we know neither you,nor she, nor a significant percentage of the Arab Palestinian people will ever accept our proof.  Not because the proof is invalid (its not) but because you reject the premise.  

I just wish you all would be more clear in the media and in international forums with your basic premise -- that this one people -- the Jewish people -- have no rights to land, to sovereignty, to self-determination, to independence, to a State.  Then at least the world would see you as you are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's been proven otherwise. You have never disproved it.
Click to expand...

*Everybody* says it has.

*Nobody* can provide a link.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi & Tom Friedman on The conflict between Israel and Gaza.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have yet to disprove that by an act of international law sovereignty over all of the land was vested with the Jewish nation.
> 
> There You go.
Click to expand...

There is your proof right here.

An Israeli talking point.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Everybody* says it has.
> 
> *Nobody* can provide a link.



THIS IS THE LINK WHICH PROVES THE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE TERRITORY BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* says it has.
> 
> *Nobody* can provide a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS THE LINK WHICH PROVES THE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE TERRITORY BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
Click to expand...

*ART. 7.*
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
Jews have rights in Palestine as citizens of Palestine. The rest of your stuff is just made up.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* says it has.
> 
> *Nobody* can provide a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS THE LINK WHICH PROVES THE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE TERRITORY BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *ART. 7.*
> The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
> Jews have rights in Palestine as citizens of Palestine. .
Click to expand...




*ART. 2.*
_The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion._


The Jewish people have the right to *self-government* to secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home (Israel) in the geographical territory known as "Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Everybody* says it has.
> 
> *Nobody* can provide a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS THE LINK WHICH PROVES THE LEGAL RIGHT TO THE TERRITORY BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *ART. 7.*
> The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​
> Jews have rights in Palestine as citizens of Palestine. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ART. 2.*
> _The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion._
> 
> 
> The Jewish people have the right to *self-government* to secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home (Israel) in the geographical territory known as "Palestine".
Click to expand...

As Palestinian citizens.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> As Palestinian citizens.




As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
Click to expand...

The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> She speaks out of both sides of her mouth.
> 
> She says West Jerusalem was occupied in 1948 and East Jerusalem was occupied in 1967.  She considers both parts of the city to be occupied territory, that is -- Palestinian territory.  She calls Jerusalem a Palestinian city.
> 
> Yet she also says that Israel can build its capital anywhere it wants -- on its own land.  But if West Jerusalem is "occupied territory", isn't Tel Aviv also "occupied territory"?  What land is Israel's own, in her mind?
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent question. The answer depends on who you ask.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She, like you, seems to think that the entire territory is "occupied".  This is exactly why I say she speaks out of both sides of her mouth.  She states that Israel can declare its capital anywhere it wants on its own land.  She neglects to illuminate her true thoughts, which are -- Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Would be better if she just spoke her truth and said that. But, of course, that would radically change international perception of the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have yet to disprove that by an act of international law sovereignty over all of the land was vested with the Jewish nation.
> 
> There You go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is your proof right here.
> 
> An Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Call it what You want,
I have yet to see You or anyone else disprove it.

Let's see You try for once instead of trying to laugh it off and deflect.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
Click to expand...


The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
Click to expand...


It was created through the Mandates, exactly the same as Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon for a peoples with legitimate, historical rights to self-determination and sovereignty, through legal instruments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was created through the Mandates, exactly the same as Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon for a peoples with legitimate, historical rights to self-determination and sovereignty, through legal instruments.
Click to expand...

The Mandate had nothing to do with it,


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
Click to expand...

Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
Click to expand...

*In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.

Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was created through the Mandates, exactly the same as Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon for a peoples with legitimate, historical rights to self-determination and sovereignty, through legal instruments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate had nothing to do with it,
Click to expand...


The Mandate had everything to do with it.  That was the legal instrumentation which brought all of those territories to the brink of sovereignty -- including setting the borders you defend so strongly.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.



And don't give me this "point of a gun" nonsense.  Peoples are permitted to resist occupation, remember?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.



AND, let's remember that one of the significant points of current IHL is to ensure the rights of minorities are not trampled by majority populations -- so your argument that the Jewish people can't have an independent State because they are a minority is factually incorrect.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
Click to expand...

Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
Click to expand...


Yes. In 1972.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
> 
> 
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
Click to expand...


YES  to Europe, to Iraq, in Syria, in Palestine...ask the same question another 10 times the answer won't change.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has no land and Israel has no right to land.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has ever proven otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, we have time and again.  But we know neither you,nor she, nor a significant percentage of the Arab Palestinian people will ever accept our proof.  Not because the proof is invalid (its not) but because you reject the premise.
> 
> I just wish you all would be more clear in the media and in international forums with your basic premise -- that this one people -- the Jewish people -- have no rights to land, to sovereignty, to self-determination, to independence, to a State.  Then at least the world would see you as you are.
Click to expand...


He has stated that many times. When asked why Israel should cede any of the “ 67 Borders” over to the Palestinians linking Gaza to the W.Bank and why they should have control of it there is no response. 
 The Palestinians don’t want to sit down and talk? There will be no Highway.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the GOVERNMENT of the Palestinian citizens over a Jewish National Homeland.
Click to expand...



Who cares what he “ thinks”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The government of Israel is illegitimate. It was created by foreigners in Palestine, at the point of a gun, with the disapproval of the vast majority of the people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
Click to expand...

You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.
Click to expand...


The last resort at excusing Arab wars and pogroms, before or after 48.
Arabs are responsible for most of the property loss in this conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> 
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last resort at excusing Arab wars and pogroms, before or after 48.
> Arabs are responsible for most of the property loss in this conflict.
Click to expand...

It is interesting that you think people can attack from at home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last resort at excusing Arab wars and pogroms, before or after 48.
> Arabs are responsible for most of the property loss in this conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that you think people can attack from at home.
Click to expand...


Pogroms against Palestinian Jews were usually committed by their Arab neighbors.
What part of this is difficult for You?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The last resort at excusing Arab wars and pogroms, before or after 48.
> Arabs are responsible for most of the property loss in this conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that you think people can attack from at home.
Click to expand...


Both peoples are at home. There are two separate liberations movements in that territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> Muslims and Christians spoke a much larger amount of foreign languages than Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out before the first vote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *In the context of a demand for a Jew-free state, mentioning votes is ridiculous.
> 
> Now let's put a kitten face, pretend that Arabs didn't start that war, that they didn't set out to murder Palestinian Jews and ruined their owns life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did the Palestinians go to Europe and attack the Zionists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. In 1972.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are decades too late. Not my fault you are slow.
Click to expand...


You are not paying attention to the question you asked. 

I would suggest to don't stray from cutting and pasting YouTube videos.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **



He claims that Trumps actions “ took negotiations off the table”
 Tell us please what the Palestinians were willing to do to advance the “ peace ✌️ process?” There will be no response.


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Reactions from Mustafa Barghouti on Trump, Palestinians, where the peace process is*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He claims that Trumps actions “ took negotiations off the table”
> Tell us please what the Palestinians were willing to do to advance the “ peace ✌️ process?” There will be no response.
Click to expand...


He will sacrifice Arabs-Moslems by the boatload in order to placate his Jew hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti Accepts the Gandhi Peace Award*


----------



## Hollie

A reward for “The World’s Most Successful Islamic Terrorist”


----------



## Hollie

He’s back! It seems he’s ready for war with the Islamic terrorists in Gaza’istan. Oh, the good ole’ days. 










Arafat Copycat at Gaza Border Rebukes PA President Abbas for Withholding Salaries of Gaza Employees: You Are the Father of the Palestinian People – Scenes from Gaza “Return March”


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud: The Last Earth: A Palestinian Story*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef*



I’m guessing your Arab-Islamist heroes have nothing to say about Jewish rights In Gaza’istan.

Are there any “apartheid” slogans you Islamics want to whine about?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nadia Ben-Youssef*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m guessing your Arab-Islamist heroes have nothing to say about Jewish rights In Gaza’istan.
> 
> Are there any “apartheid” slogans you Islamics want to whine about?
Click to expand...


When asked about the PA’s stance on “ No Israelis Allowed”, or why Israel should cede any of the 67 Borders we hear about over to the PA or why the Israelis should be deprived of their Holy Sites there is no response.
With each copy and paste it shows that he is just getting more angry and frustrated. Enjoy it!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nadia Ben-Youssef*
> 
> **


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



At least she was honest in the end and said, "Let us be free to take our homeland".  Meaning -- remove the Jewish people from their homeland and prevent the Jewish people from any sort of sovereignty or self-determination.  Appreciate her honesty.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
Click to expand...


Not to mention demonization in the form of unsupported claims like, "Its a new type of gas".


----------



## P F Tinmore

“The real task of this court is not to enact justice, but to perpetuate occupation,"

What was the key to sustaining a decade of protests against settlement profiteer Lev Leviev?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not to mention demonization in the form of unsupported claims like, "Its a new type of gas".
Click to expand...

It's a lucrative industry of deception  brought to a level of an art-form.

Palestinian lies couldn't be more in the open for all to see, 
but the world is already too much invested in the continuation of the conflict to care about facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> “The real task of this court is not to enact justice, but to perpetuate occupation,"
> 
> What was the key to sustaining a decade of protests against settlement profiteer Lev Leviev?



This doesn't make sense, how does Levaiev profit from construction?
Houses in Judea-Samaria are the cheapest in the region of central Israel.
If anything, he's doing it taking a big risk for his business and politics.

Virtuous man in many aspects.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation, 
*Hamas did it themselves - openly.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
Click to expand...

Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
Click to expand...


Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.

You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
Click to expand...

Where was that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where was that?
Click to expand...

Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.

post #3814


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
Click to expand...

 Dead link.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't Israel to claim Hamas organized the protests as a cover for violent confrontation,
> *Hamas did it themselves - openly.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
Click to expand...

Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.

post #3814


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhh, Hamas, the beacon of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
Click to expand...

I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> 
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...


The  Hamas cowards only parade with guns and uniforms after they have been given another islsmic terrorist beatdown. Your goofy Islamic terrorist fashion shows are a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> 
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The  Hamas cowards only parade with guns and uniforms after they have been given another islsmic terrorist beatdown. Your goofy Islamic terrorist fashion shows are a hoot.
Click to expand...

More gibberish.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The  Hamas cowards only parade with guns and uniforms after they have been given another islsmic terrorist beatdown. Your goofy Islamic terrorist fashion shows are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More gibberish.
Click to expand...


It’s funny to watch your retreat to your usual catalog of goofy slogans as you get befuddled.

How difficult it is when you can’t find a PressTV YouTube video.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The  Hamas cowards only parade with guns and uniforms after they have been given another islsmic terrorist beatdown. Your goofy Islamic terrorist fashion shows are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More gibberish.
Click to expand...


Another Tinmore’ism. Just plead ignorance.



Israel-Palestine conflict: Hamas anniversary parade sees militants display rockets and heavy weapons as they vow to destroy Israel
Group marched through Gaza to mark its 27th year

Hamas parades militants and rockets to mark anniversary

_




_


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just minutes ago You've linked to a Pallywood video showing Hamas armed militants mixing with "medical" personal.
> 
> You guys are either complete idiots or merely attempting to convince the naive dumb in the public.
> 
> 
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

1:24
Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation. Gazans went so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.

You guys are either dumb or just can't exhale without compulsive lying.
Linking to videos of Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where was that?
> 
> 
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Short memory is convenient when promoting Hamas suicidal maniacs.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dead link.
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
Click to expand...

WTF!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pallywood fail - video shows armed Hamas militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> post #3814
> 
> 
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF!
Click to expand...


Exactly WTF, there's a Swastika waving out of Your ass and You keep pretending no one sees it.
Even Eichman had more integrity and honesty than most lowlife Jihadi fans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw no guns, no uniforms, no Hamas flags. What are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly WTF, there's a Swastika waving out of Your ass and You keep pretending no one sees it.
> Even Eichman had more integrity and honesty than most lowlife Jihadi fans.
Click to expand...

Nice rant. Irrelevant to my post though.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1:24
> Your video clearly shows Hamas armed militants in uniform mixing with the "medical" personal at the confrontation.
> 
> Gazans wen't so far as to confirm that 50 out of 62 dead in the confrontation were Hamas militants.
> You guys are either dumb or just can't hold the compulsive lying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly WTF, there's a Swastika waving out of Your ass and You keep pretending no one sees it.
> Even Eichman had more integrity and honesty than most lowlife Jihadi fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant. Irrelevant to my post though.
Click to expand...


Directly relevant to Your video - which shows Hamas armed militants mixing with the "medical" personal.


----------



## rylah

*The Palestinian Authority will pay millions in compensation to collaborators whom it tortured and imprisoned without trial*

The Jerusalem District Court ruled that the Palestinian Authority would pay NIS 13.2 million to 52 Palestinians who were imprisoned without trial on suspicion of collaborating with Israel. The decision comes after last year the court ruled that the PA tortured the Palestinians and committed atrocities including rape, uprooting of organs and even murder. The amount that was ruled today was given for internment days, and the rest of the compensation will be ruled by the court later, each according to the conditions in which they were imprisoned and the torture they underwent.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly WTF, there's a Swastika waving out of Your ass and You keep pretending no one sees it.
> Even Eichman had more integrity and honesty than most lowlife Jihadi fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant. Irrelevant to my post though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Directly relevant to Your video - which shows Hamas armed militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
Click to expand...

You keep saying that.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Linking to videos showing Gazans openly calling for mass suicide and murder of Jews, doesn't help Your storytelling either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WTF!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly WTF, there's a Swastika waving out of Your ass and You keep pretending no one sees it.
> Even Eichman had more integrity and honesty than most lowlife Jihadi fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice rant. Irrelevant to my post though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Directly relevant to Your video - which shows Hamas armed militants mixing with the "medical" personal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that.
Click to expand...


In the court of law You'd be given an extra for lying and hiding evidence.
And You keep posting videos that contradict everything You say.


----------



## rylah

*Prominent Hamas figure shot in head in Gaza, critically injured
*
Prominent Hamas official Imad al-Alami, one of the original founders of the Gaza-based Islamist group, was critically injured on Tuesday after being shot in the head outside his home in the Strip, a security source in the Gaza Strip told _i24NEWS_.

Al-Alami, 62, was admitted to Shifa Hospital in Gaza City where he is reportedly clinging to life as he undergoes surgery.






Al-Alami has held several important positions within Hamas. He was based in Syria when the group was headquartered in Damascus, where he served as the main point of contact for Hamas relations with Iran and its proxies.

Prominent Hamas figure shot in head in Gaza, critically injured


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

More of the usual disasters that surround welfare payments to Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians" 


*Problems adding up for Australian aid to Palestinian Territories*

Problems adding up for Australian aid to Palestinian Territories - AIJAC

Australians are waiting for answers from Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) about possible terrorism links in two separate Palestinian aid programs. The first relates to Australia’s contribution towards the Palestinian Authority’s budget and whether that contribution may be supporting the Palestinian Authority’s so-called ‘martyrs’ fund’. The second relates to how it came to be that an Australian-funded development program employed at least one leading figure from a declared terrorist group.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The indefinite detention of Khalida Jarrar is more rule than exception*

On June 16, an Israeli military court extended by four months an administrative detention order against Palestinian legislator Khalida Jarrar. The Ofer military court determined that Jarrar, a long-time human rights activist, poses a threat to the public, but the facts remain: no evidence has been presented against Jarrar, who has been imprisoned for a year without charge or trial; no person who is familiar with Jarrar and her work believes her detention is not politically motivated; no court in the world that abides by international justice standards would have convicted her (nor imposed an administrative detention order against her, and renewed it, and renewed it again.)

The indefinite detention of Khalida Jarrar is more rule than exception


----------



## P F Tinmore

_On May 24, 2018, Israel’s High Court of Justice approved the demolition of Khan al-Ahmar and the forcible transfer of its residents, members of the Bedouin Jahalin tribe.  Such actions constitute a war crime under Article 49 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV and Article 13 of the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, among other sources of law.  The ruling from the Israeli HCJ was characterized by B’Tselem as the latest example of “judicial formalism” enabling the state’s violation of Palestinian rights.
_
A peaceful evacuation


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> _On May 24, 2018, Israel’s High Court of Justice approved the demolition of Khan al-Ahmar and the forcible transfer of its residents, members of the Bedouin Jahalin tribe.  Such actions constitute a war crime under Article 49 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV and Article 13 of the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, among other sources of law.  The ruling from the Israeli HCJ was characterized by B’Tselem as the latest example of “judicial formalism” enabling the state’s violation of Palestinian rights.
> _
> A peaceful evacuation



 Now, THAT is funny! How come there wasn’t any protest from the “ International Community” when Jordan desecrated the Mount of Olives and other Jewish Holy Sites?


----------



## member

rylah said:


> *Prominent Hamas figure shot in head in Gaza, critically injured
> *
> Prominent Hamas official Imad al-Alami, one of the original founders of the Gaza-based Islamist group, was critically injured on Tuesday after being shot in the head outside his home in the Strip, a security source in the Gaza Strip told _i24NEWS_.
> 
> Al-Alami, 62, was admitted to Shifa Hospital in Gaza City where he is reportedly clinging to life as he undergoes surgery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-Alami has held several important positions within Hamas. He was based in Syria when the group was headquartered in Damascus, where he served as the main point of contact for Hamas relations with Iran and its proxies.
> 
> Prominent Hamas figure shot in head in Gaza, critically injured




*"**Prominent Hamas figure* [URL='http://s236.photobucket.com/user/Sundown5925/media/animated-pet-rock.gif.html']
	
 *shot in head in Gaza, critically injured"*[/URL]





 *"This is a developing story."*

_i_-24 news: Highlights of story:






- Prominent _hamass_ official

- original founder of _Hamass_

- held several important positions within _Hamass_


right, _*"prominent."*_


He’s a bum terrorist.  





*“He lived in exile* 

 *for more than 20 years but returned to Gaza in 2012.”*



Since being out of exile and living in beautiful downtown _gaza_ 





​

​



 ----no doubt he’s been a big influence over the last few years with the [non-existent] Peace process.....





 I bet this prominent founder of hamass, who held several important positions _within_ Hamass was mastermind behind the kite-bomb debacle.



*"critically injured"
*


 get well, get well soon, we want you 

 _to get well..._


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Understanding the Current Palestinian Revolt: Its Context and Consequences for Palestinian Society*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems are revolting.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Rania Masri's Speech at "Crisis in Gaza and West Bank: Context and Action" Forum*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

In our first Palestine Policy Lab session, Al-Shabaka analysts Yara Hawari and Diana Buttu weigh in on the usefulness of the Apartheid framework in the Palestinian context.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek*


----------



## Hollie

Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Abbas “ gives up” on the U.S. but did he Seriously think he would persuade Israel to concede to all demands including some of the “ 67 Borders” without ANY land swap? 
  Just more proof they were never serious about “ peace”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.



Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  and if Israel did agree on “ Right of Return” the result would be a civil War in an attempt to overthrow the Israeli Government.  I couldn’t have said it better myself. I


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
Click to expand...

It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.
Click to expand...


Typical Islamist excuses for their own negligence and failures.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.
Click to expand...


It is the Palestinians that destroyed the two State Solution. In your YOU TUBE they stated that Israel has no right to exist! Nothing to do with the “48” or “67” Borders.  Tell us please what the Palestinians put on the table that the Israelis rejected and  why is Israel obligated to give them any part of the “ 67 Borders” linking Gaza to the W. Bank? I predict there will not be a response; there never is


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.
Click to expand...


Now, THAT is funny!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, Hollie,  et al,

Oh, don't be so narrow-minded...



P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It was the Arab Palestinian that rejected the two-state solution recommended by UNSCOP Recommendations -- for the partition of the territory.


[T]he Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
✪ A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948 ✪


(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.

(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
✪ The Khartoum Resolutions; September 1, 1967 ✪ 

The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of June 5. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​
✪ Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences: Article Thirteen 1988: ✪ 

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
------------------------------------------------
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​
Again, while neither side can claim the absolute high ground, certainly, it was the Arab Palestinians that constantly held the most consistent position against a peaceful resolution.  It has not been the case once _(not a single time)_ in the interval between the final establishment of the Jewish National Home, and the present day generation of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, that pretend to be a valiant resistance --- struggling for control of a land that they have neither ruled nor defended since the control under the Ottoman Empire began.

✪ HAMAS published a Major Position Paper 2012 ✪ 

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine ---​
The present-day Hostile Arab Palestinian should hang their head in same for the innocent deaths they caused in their reign of terror in the more than last half-century.  The brand their death a resistance, yet do not serve their people.  One look at the Gaza or Ramallahxz Government and you can see that the saga of returning the land to the Islamic people is really only to mask the financial gain for a corrupt leadership, political control for their power, and their religious or ideological aims to subdue the people.  But it has nothing to do with the rise and improvement in the development of the greater population.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> _On May 24, 2018, Israel’s High Court of Justice approved the demolition of Khan al-Ahmar and the forcible transfer of its residents, members of the Bedouin Jahalin tribe.  Such actions constitute a war crime under Article 49 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV and Article 13 of the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, among other sources of law.  The ruling from the Israeli HCJ was characterized by B’Tselem as the latest example of “judicial formalism” enabling the state’s violation of Palestinian rights.
> _
> A peaceful evacuation



How more idiotic and backwards can it be?

Some Bedouins prefer living like that:






To living like that:





Bedouins are even proposed to have a real organized land, with electricity and water written for them in taboo. Some prefer the health hazard on the side of the main road.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, Hollie,  et al,
> 
> Oh, don't be so narrow-minded...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lamis Deek - islamist fascist.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Just more proof that the Palestinians don’t want s “ Two State Solution “  I
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel that destroyed the two state solution. Now their policies are coming around to bite it on the ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was the Arab Palestinian that rejected the two-state solution recommended by UNSCOP Recommendations -- for the partition of the territory.
> 
> [T]he Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
> ✪ A/AC.21/10  16 February 1948 ✪
> 
> 
> (a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> (b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> (c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> (d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> (e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> ✪ The Khartoum Resolutions; September 1, 1967 ✪
> 
> The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of June 5. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.​✪ Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences: Article Thirteen 1988: ✪
> 
> Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.
> ------------------------------------------------
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​
> Again, while neither side can claim the absolute high ground, certainly, it was the Arab Palestinians that constantly held the most consistent position against a peaceful resolution.  It has not been the case once _(not a single time)_ in the interval between the final establishment of the Jewish National Home, and the present day generation of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, that pretend to be a valiant resistance --- struggling for control of a land that they have neither ruled nor defended since the control under the Ottoman Empire began.
> 
> ✪ HAMAS published a Major Position Paper 2012 ✪
> 
> Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine ---​
> The present-day Hostile Arab Palestinian should hang their head in same for the innocent deaths they caused in their reign of terror in the more than last half-century.  The brand their death a resistance, yet do not serve their people.  One look at the Gaza or Ramallahxz Government and you can see that the saga of returning the land to the Islamic people is really only to mask the financial gain for a corrupt leadership, political control for their power, and their religious or ideological aims to subdue the people.  But it has nothing to do with the rise and improvement in the development of the greater population.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Tinmore is such a liar. The U.N. voted in favor of the partition 33 to 13 with 10 abstaining


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **



Does he mean the 61 shot out of whom at least 50 were confirmed Hamas militants?
There goes the rest of the bs...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sumoud: Voices and Images of the Ramallah Friends School*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Voices and Images from the Hamas run Hitler Youth Camps 



*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **



Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
Click to expand...

Who got hurt?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who got hurt?
Click to expand...


Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
Click to expand...

Israel did in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cultists for Pal'istan


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
Click to expand...


YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
Click to expand...


Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.

They can't dance around that one.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Death Cultists for Pal'istan





Hollie said:


> Death Cultists for Pal'istan





Hollie said:


> Death Cultists for Pal'istan



Why are you picking on them? They are just misunderstood. You shouldn’t be so judgemental


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
Click to expand...


Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”, 
Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
Click to expand...


Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?
Click to expand...


No. Ask the Pro Palestinian Kool-Aid Team what the Palestinians put on the table or better yet why they are entitled to any land within the “ 67 Borders “ there is no response.
   Let them keep up with their demands . It will get them nowhere.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?
Click to expand...

Hamas and PA - two bald men fighting over a comb.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas and PA - two bald men fighting over a comb.
Click to expand...


Actually, two competing islamic terrorist franchises fighting over a welfare check.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Book talk: "A Life Worth Living: The Story of a Palestinian Catholic" ~ Dr. Bernard Sabella*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas and PA - two bald men fighting over a comb.
Click to expand...


Does anyone know what he’s talking about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*



How nice that women can enforce theocratic totalitarianism, maybe even condemn other women to stoning, caning, lopping-off of extremities or gang rape to preserve the family honor as happens in Pakistan. 

Oh, the wonders of Islamist sharia. Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **



Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
Click to expand...


My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that women can enforce theocratic totalitarianism, maybe even condemn other women to stoning, caning, lopping-off of extremities or gang rape to preserve the family honor as happens in Pakistan.
> 
> Oh, the wonders of Islamist sharia. Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today.
Click to expand...

Off topic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
Click to expand...

Off topic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.
Click to expand...

Off topic.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How nice that women can enforce theocratic totalitarianism, maybe even condemn other women to stoning, caning, lopping-off of extremities or gang rape to preserve the family honor as happens in Pakistan.
> 
> Oh, the wonders of Islamist sharia. Good enough for the 7th century, good enough for today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
Click to expand...


Not so. 

You’re just incensed that the goofy “glass ceiling” nonsense is just that, nonsense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Norman Finkelstein: Outrage over Israeli Massacre Shows Power of Nonviolent Palestinian Resistance*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.


Where does it say that it does?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
Click to expand...


Not so. You’re just incensed that another of your silly YouTube propaganda videos was the subject of comment and critique.

You do understand that your endless cutting and pasting of YouTube videos and dumping them in a public discussion forum suggests that you should expect others will have a different reaction than yours, right?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> 
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
Click to expand...


“The right of the peoples”. Did you forget?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so. You’re just incensed that another of your silly YouTube propaganda videos was the subject of comment and critique.
> 
> You do understand that your endless cutting and pasting of YouTube videos and dumping them in a public discussion forum suggests that you should expect others will have a different reaction than yours, right?
Click to expand...

They are more comprehensive than your bullshit Israeli talking points.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
Click to expand...


You can answer your own question.  There are only three possibilities:

1.  ALL peoples have an inherent, inviolable right to self-determination and government and sovereignty in their homeland.

2.  NO peoples have rights to self-determination, government and sovereignty.

3.  Rights to self-determination, government and sovereignty for any peoples are conditional and the objective conditions are:  (provide list).


The PROBLEM with you is that you consistently argue #1 but except the Jewish people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Women judges in Islamic courts break glass ceiling*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so. You’re just incensed that another of your silly YouTube propaganda videos was the subject of comment and critique.
> 
> You do understand that your endless cutting and pasting of YouTube videos and dumping them in a public discussion forum suggests that you should expect others will have a different reaction than yours, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are more comprehensive than your bullshit Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Sorry, Chuckles, but your silly, Pallywood Studio YouTube videos are intended for a gullible audience you choose to be.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can answer your own question.  There are only three possibilities:
> 
> 1.  ALL peoples have an inherent, inviolable right to self-determination and government and sovereignty in their homeland.
> 
> 2.  NO peoples have rights to self-determination, government and sovereignty.
> 
> 3.  Rights to self-determination, government and sovereignty for any peoples are conditional and the objective conditions are:  (provide list).
> 
> 
> The PROBLEM with you is that you consistently argue #1 but except the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

You are confused as to what constitutes a people. Peoples are different nationalities. That is a territorial designation. The French, the British, and Canadians are nationalities because their homes are in the defined territories of France, Britain, and Canada.

Religious groups are not peoples because they can, and are, comprised of different nationalities. They have no common defined territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this news? Because they are not being beheaded for getting an education?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My take-away was that women "judges" enforcing sharia law gives credibility to 50 year old men taking 12 year old brides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not so. You’re just incensed that another of your silly YouTube propaganda videos was the subject of comment and critique.
> 
> You do understand that your endless cutting and pasting of YouTube videos and dumping them in a public discussion forum suggests that you should expect others will have a different reaction than yours, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are more comprehensive than your bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles, but your silly, Pallywood Studio YouTube videos are intended for a gullible audience you choose to be.
Click to expand...

I post them for people who want to learn something. If that is not you...well...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Justice and only Justice--Dr. Sara Roy: Dispossessing Palestine*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it to Tinmore to call the actions of Hamas and other Palestinians “ nonviolent “
> 
> 
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
Click to expand...


You’re right. The U.N. Vote ( which I have posted before)  on the establishment of the  Israeli State doesn’t matter.  
   I understand because what the U.N. “ thinks”
Now doesn’t matter to Israel .Everytime you post you just verify that the Palestinians are not interested in “ peace” or the “ Two State Solution”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who got hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re right. The U.N. Vote ( which I have posted before)  on the establishment of the  Israeli State doesn’t matter.
> I understand because what the U.N. “ thinks”
> Now doesn’t matter to Israel .Everytime you post you just verify that the Palestinians are not interested in “ peace” or the “ Two State Solution”
Click to expand...

Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?

Give me some names.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You are confused as to what constitutes a people. Peoples are different nationalities. That is a territorial designation. The French, the British, and Canadians are nationalities because their homes are in the defined territories of France, Britain, and Canada.
> 
> Religious groups are not peoples because they can, and are, comprised of different nationalities. They have no common defined territory.



To argue that the Jewish people have "no common defined territory" is patently ridiculous.  The historical relationship between the Jewish people and the specific territory where they had their genesis and developed into a people and continue to be present is absolutely undeniable.

You continue to argue that the Jewish people are not a people, are not a nationality, are not whatever....in order to deliberately exclude them from whatever rights you want to assign to other peoples.  In other words, you specifically construct your individual arguments in such a way as to exclude the Jewish people, but when your arguments are seen as a whole the hypocrisy becomes obvious.

A nationality is the formalization of a group of people with enough common interests to build self-governing institutions and which has the ability to enter into relationships with other formalized national groups, including the ability to establish boundaries where your group's influence ends and another group's influence begins.  'Israeli' is clearly a nationality. It is absolutely impossible to reasonably argue against the reality of that statement.  Israel is as real a nationality as is French or British or Canadian.  There must not be a question about existing nationalities -- or more specifically about the destruction of existing nationalities -- it must be unconditionally off the table that it is a "right" to destroy an existing nation against their will.

The question, then, concerns emerging nations and whether ethnic or cultural groups have rights without a formalized nationality (yet).  According to prevailing current international law, and your own arguments for the Arab Palestinians, peoples DO have an inherent and inviolable right to self-determination, self-government and sovereignty over some territory that is relevant to that group's history.  You keep wanting to exclude the Jewish people from those rights.  And yet there is no objective measure for excluding the Jewish people from those rights.  

The argument that they are "just" a religious group is nothing more than excuse to exclude them.  There is no objective criteria for an "ethnic and cultural group" which would exclude the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.



Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.

But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
Click to expand...

You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
Click to expand...


Oh give me a break. What is the objective measure of whether a peoples has a historical connection to a territory or place?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re right. The U.N. Vote ( which I have posted before)  on the establishment of the  Israeli State doesn’t matter.
> I understand because what the U.N. “ thinks”
> Now doesn’t matter to Israel .Everytime you post you just verify that the Palestinians are not interested in “ peace” or the “ Two State Solution”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are again imagining that some  “country of Pal’Istan” ever existed.

Indeed, the alternate reality you dwell in which includes invented historical (or is it “hysterical”, circumstances), is truly a dark place.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who initiated the Violence’?  To call it “ Nonviolent “ is absolutely hysterical. !!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Israel did in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YAWN.... Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist. This debunks your “ claim” that there could have been a “ Two State Solution” but Israel blew that chance. Norman Finklestein is showing “ outrage” because of what “ happened” in 1948?? Every time you post you put your foot in your mouth     Calling the Palestinian protest “ peaceful”? Better start taking those Meds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again; The fact that Israel has no right to exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say that it does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re right. The U.N. Vote ( which I have posted before)  on the establishment of the  Israeli State doesn’t matter.
> I understand because what the U.N. “ thinks”
> Now doesn’t matter to Israel .Everytime you post you just verify that the Palestinians are not interested in “ peace” or the “ Two State Solution”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
Click to expand...


  Anyway, thank you for verifying that the Palestinians are not interested in the “ Two State Solution “ or why they believe they are entitled to any land within the “ borders”  they keep referring to .


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
Click to expand...


Thank you for verifying that you believe the Jewish people have no right to the Western Wall, Mount Olive, or any of the other Jewish Holy Sites. . One of the reasons why there will never be a “ Palestinian State”


----------



## P F Tinmore

*London Protests Israel Funded Seret 2018 Film Festival - Free Palestinian Poet Dareen Tatour*

**


----------



## Hollie

It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation speak out*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. What is the objective measure of whether a peoples has a historical connection to a territory or place?
Click to expand...

If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.


Israel's kangaroo court in focus.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
Click to expand...


That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion. 

OR,

just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Stone Throwing Double Standard of an Apartheid State*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion.
> 
> OR,
> 
> just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.
Click to expand...

Israel kills Palestinians all the time and nobody bats an eye. But when Dareen Tatour writes a poem it is OMG she has to go to prison.

You people are too funny.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion.
> 
> OR,
> 
> just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians all the time and nobody bats an eye. But when Dareen Tatour writes a poem it is OMG she has to go to prison.
> 
> You people are too funny.
Click to expand...


When Arabs-Moslems comitt acts of war, there are consequences. 

In most western standards of justice, incitement to violence carries consequences. 

You expect an entitlement to acts of war and incitement to violence without consequence. 

Cry me a river.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.



Yes, but that was not the question.  The question was how you can tell if particular territory is connected to a particular people.  What is the objective measure of a people's right to a territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but that was not the question.  The question was how you can tell if particular territory is connected to a particular people.  What is the objective measure of a people's right to a territory?
Click to expand...

It is not your ancestral land if you have no ancestors from there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion.
> 
> OR,
> 
> just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians all the time and nobody bats an eye. But when Dareen Tatour writes a poem it is OMG she has to go to prison.
> 
> You people are too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Arabs-Moslems comitt acts of war, there are consequences.
> 
> In most western standards of justice, incitement to violence carries consequences.
> 
> You expect an entitlement to acts of war and incitement to violence without consequence.
> 
> Cry me a river.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians have been resisting occupation for a hundred years. It is their right to do that.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. What is the objective measure of whether a peoples has a historical connection to a territory or place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but that was not the question.  The question was how you can tell if particular territory is connected to a particular people.  What is the objective measure of a people's right to a territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not your ancestral land if you have no ancestors from there.
Click to expand...


You’ve made the claim that Jewish History has no ties to that land so back it up. My guess is that there will be no response; there never is


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion.
> 
> OR,
> 
> just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians all the time and nobody bats an eye. But when Dareen Tatour writes a poem it is OMG she has to go to prison.
> 
> You people are too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Arabs-Moslems comitt acts of war, there are consequences.
> 
> In most western standards of justice, incitement to violence carries consequences.
> 
> You expect an entitlement to acts of war and incitement to violence without consequence.
> 
> Cry me a river.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been resisting occupation for a hundred years. It is their right to do that.
Click to expand...


None of us were aware the Jewish State existed back then. Thank you for the History Lesson.


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Today*



Reminiscent of the Europe of the 12th Century.  A land out of people.  A land out of time.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It is not your ancestral land if you have no ancestors from there.



How do you measure that?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have been resisting occupation for a hundred years. It is their right to do that.



Sure.  The Arab Palestinians have been resisting the return of the Jewish people for a hundred years.  You are saying that people have the right to resist return, then.  And yet you complain that the Jewish people are resisting the return of the Arab Palestinian people.  You can't have it both ways.  Either people have a right to return or they don't.  Either people have a right to resist return or they don't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, what other people in the world would agree to give half of their country to settlers?
> 
> Give me some names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. What is the objective measure of whether a peoples has a historical connection to a territory or place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but that was not the question.  The question was how you can tell if particular territory is connected to a particular people.  What is the objective measure of a people's right to a territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not your ancestral land if you have no ancestors from there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’ve made the claim that Jewish History has no ties to that land so back it up. My guess is that there will be no response; there never is
Click to expand...

No I didn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, easier to name those few nations in the world not affected by inward migration or are so openly xenophobic as to restrict it.  Japan.  Korea.  Greenland.  Maybe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.  Maybe some isolated island nations.  Literally every other nation on the planet has dealt with some sort of inward migration.
> 
> But, that aside, let's ask that question -- why would the Jewish people agree to give half (actually more than) of their country to settler invader/colonizers?  And why do you expect the answer to be different?
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that there is a Jewish nation when there in no evidence that most of them have ancestral relation to that land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. What is the objective measure of whether a peoples has a historical connection to a territory or place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it is not their territory, it is illegal conquest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but that was not the question.  The question was how you can tell if particular territory is connected to a particular people.  What is the objective measure of a people's right to a territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not your ancestral land if you have no ancestors from there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’ve made the claim that Jewish History has no ties to that land so back it up. My guess is that there will be no response; there never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I didn't.
Click to expand...


You stated that if it’s not your ancestral land you have no right to be there referring to the Israelis. ( Jewish History) Prove it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's all fun and games until it's incitement to violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's kangaroo court in focus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, of course, is your subjective (and expected), opinion. Why dont you enlighten us with specific documentary evidence you have reviewed in order to form your opinion.
> 
> OR,
> 
> just cut and paste a silly YouTube video that has no connection to the thread topic as a way to sidestep any responsibility for your pointless one-liners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians all the time and nobody bats an eye. But when Dareen Tatour writes a poem it is OMG she has to go to prison.
> 
> You people are too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Arabs-Moslems comitt acts of war, there are consequences.
> 
> In most western standards of justice, incitement to violence carries consequences.
> 
> You expect an entitlement to acts of war and incitement to violence without consequence.
> 
> Cry me a river.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians have been resisting occupation for a hundred years. It is their right to do that.
Click to expand...


_oh shut up terrorist supporter....._







*"Hamas tried to spy on soldiers with fake dating apps, Israeli military says"*


"In the terror group's latest devious plot targeting Israeli soldiers, Hamas turned to the most powerful weapon of all -- love.


The Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday said it uncovered a plot by Hamas militants to use stolen identifies on social media in order to learn soldiers' personal information and then "retrieve sensitive security information" by having the soldiers download malicious applications that turned their cell phones into tools for the enemy.

*Hamas militants, posing as an attractive woman*, [LoL - what a buncha losers] would initially reach out to soldiers on platforms such as Facebook, then shift conversations to the Whatsapp texting service. After receiving dozens of reports from soldiers getting unusual messages, the military launched operation "Broken Heart" to uncover the plot.

"Not long after the first attacker approached us, we’d already begun receiving dozens of reports from soldiers about suspicious figures and apps on social networks," Colonel A., the Head of the IDF's Information Security Department, said in a news release. "Upon investigating the reports, we uncovered hostile infrastructure that Hamas tried to use to keep in contact with IDF soldiers and tempt them to download apps that were harmful, and use the soldiers to extract classified information."

The military said it had uncovered three Hamas-operated apps on Google Play that had been downloaded about 100 times by soldiers since the beginning of the year. The military said the first two apps were called Glancelove and Winkchat, supposed dating apps. The third, Golden Cup, was filled with information about the World Cup taking place in Russia.

The photos belonged to real women whose photos and personal details were stolen from their Facebook profiles, including some who were scantily clad and kissing each other. Conversations were conducted in everyday Hebrew from Israeli mobile numbers and the military said those operating the accounts were not necessarily based in Gaza.


Sometimes to cover up incorrect Hebrew, the person running the fake profiles told he soldiers they claimed to be new immigrants, according to the IDF.

A senior Israeli intelligence officer told the Associated Press that no damage was done by the attempted hacking, thanks to newly enacted guidelines for military mobile phone use.

"Once again Hamas tried to fool our soldiers on social networks. Once again Hamas failed," the officer said in a briefing to reporters at military headquarters Wednesday.

Hamas had no immediate comment on the plot, according to the AP."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>









Palestinian Theatre group.  that's...cool.  (except for the part where the female actors have to PERFORM with their heads all covered.  can't even see their hair. GOD forbid!  i guess performing RAPUNZEL wouldn't fit in in their little theatre-in-the-round group.......






so.....you ARE aware though that.......


a lot of guys (and gals) in the theatre

 are gay. Take that guy in the video (he's...very cute and very neat-looking).....and he speaks real *sweet* .......

 Gay....

In the muslim world - you know, most feel like that putz, amadinejiHad..... 

 i wonder how many gay Hamass Government Officials there are....?  I'm just saying....you know, Gay Terrorists....



.



....

gay or not - _loser terrorists_.  maybe they all should join the theatre instead !







​











_*Disclaimer*_:








​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




The Islamic gee-had against humanity began in 632 CE and still hasn't ended.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **


They are animals and live like animals.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




This is another of your pointless cut and paste bits of spam.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




I like it! The one legged man race! Who wins?


----------



## CMike

There is no "Palestine" today. It doesn't exist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

CMike said:


> There is no "Palestine" today. It doesn't exist.



It never did !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

member said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Theatre group.  that's...cool.  (except for the part where the female actors have to PERFORM with their heads all covered.  can't even see their hair. GOD forbid!  i guess performing RAPUNZEL wouldn't fit in in their little theatre-in-the-round group.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so.....you ARE aware though that.......
> 
> 
> a lot of guys (and gals) in the theatre
> 
> are gay. Take that guy in the video (he's...very cute and very neat-looking).....and he speaks real *sweet* .......
> 
> Gay....
> 
> In the muslim world - you know, most feel like that putz, amadinejiHad.....
> 
> i wonder how many gay Hamass Government Officials there are....?  I'm just saying....you know, Gay Terrorists....
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> gay or not - _loser terrorists_.  maybe they all should join the theatre instead !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Disclaimer*_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...

*Head covering for Jewish Women. What's preferred or allowed? Sephardi and Ashkenazi.*

**


----------



## CMike

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "Palestine" today. It doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It never did !!!
Click to expand...

Well...it was a British colony. I don't think that counts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Webinar on military embargo organized jointly between the Boycott National Committee and the Dismantle Corporate Power campaign


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

CMike said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no "Palestine" today. It doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It never did !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well...it was a British colony. I don't think that counts.
Click to expand...


Agree! It never existed


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Theatre group.  that's...cool.  (except for the part where the female actors have to PERFORM with their heads all covered.  can't even see their hair. GOD forbid!  i guess performing RAPUNZEL wouldn't fit in in their little theatre-in-the-round group.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so.....you ARE aware though that.......
> 
> 
> a lot of guys (and gals) in the theatre
> 
> are gay. Take that guy in the video (he's...very cute and very neat-looking).....and he speaks real *sweet* .......
> 
> Gay....
> 
> In the muslim world - you know, most feel like that putz, amadinejiHad.....
> 
> i wonder how many gay Hamass Government Officials there are....?  I'm just saying....you know, Gay Terrorists....
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> gay or not - _loser terrorists_.  maybe they all should join the theatre instead !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Disclaimer*_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Head covering for Jewish Women. What's preferred or allowed? Sephardi and Ashkenazi.*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Can anyone out there tell me what the significance of the link is? Arab women are forced to wear the Hijab. 
 On the extreme Arab women are forced to wear the Burka. If one part of their body is “ exposed” even an ankle they could be killed. 
 Too bad he doesn’t put his time and energy into finding significant links concerning those topics.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Theatre group.  that's...cool.  (except for the part where the female actors have to PERFORM with their heads all covered.  can't even see their hair. GOD forbid!  i guess performing RAPUNZEL wouldn't fit in in their little theatre-in-the-round group.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so.....you ARE aware though that.......
> 
> 
> a lot of guys (and gals) in the theatre
> 
> are gay. Take that guy in the video (he's...very cute and very neat-looking).....and he speaks real *sweet* .......
> 
> Gay....
> 
> In the muslim world - you know, most feel like that putz, amadinejiHad.....
> 
> i wonder how many gay Hamass Government Officials there are....?  I'm just saying....you know, Gay Terrorists....
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> gay or not - _loser terrorists_.  maybe they all should join the theatre instead !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Disclaimer*_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Head covering for Jewish Women. What's preferred or allowed? Sephardi and Ashkenazi.*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can anyone out there tell me what the significance of the link is? Arab women are forced to wear the Hijab.
> On the extreme Arab women are forced to wear the Burka. If one part of their body is “ exposed” even an ankle they could be killed.
> Too bad he doesn’t put his time and energy into finding significant links concerning those topics.
Click to expand...

Off topic. This does not apply to Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Theatre group.  that's...cool.  (except for the part where the female actors have to PERFORM with their heads all covered.  can't even see their hair. GOD forbid!  i guess performing RAPUNZEL wouldn't fit in in their little theatre-in-the-round group.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so.....you ARE aware though that.......
> 
> 
> a lot of guys (and gals) in the theatre
> 
> are gay. Take that guy in the video (he's...very cute and very neat-looking).....and he speaks real *sweet* .......
> 
> Gay....
> 
> In the muslim world - you know, most feel like that putz, amadinejiHad.....
> 
> i wonder how many gay Hamass Government Officials there are....?  I'm just saying....you know, Gay Terrorists....
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> gay or not - _loser terrorists_.  maybe they all should join the theatre instead !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Disclaimer*_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Head covering for Jewish Women. What's preferred or allowed? Sephardi and Ashkenazi.*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can anyone out there tell me what the significance of the link is? Arab women are forced to wear the Hijab.
> On the extreme Arab women are forced to wear the Burka. If one part of their body is “ exposed” even an ankle they could be killed.
> Too bad he doesn’t put his time and energy into finding significant links concerning those topics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Off topic. This does not apply to Palestine.
Click to expand...


Not off topic. If you can refer to Israelis and what they wear I can refer to the Arab World. You are the one who is off topic. What the Israeli women wear on their heads had nothing to do with “ Palestine “


----------



## P F Tinmore

What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

These were the scenes at the Palestinian community of Khan al-Ahmar earlier today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*South Africa*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your  Video is actually funny .  Hillary Clinton speaks of a “ negotiated. Peace” yet when asked what the Palestinians put on the table or why they are entitled to any of the “ 67 Borders” there is no response. Keep it up!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well because by an act of international law the Jewish nation was given sovereignty over all of the land.
> 
> They can't dance around that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure they can(not really) In one of Tinmore’s posts where he blames Israel for not having the “ Two State Solution “ , asked what the Palestinians proposed that Israel rejected or why the Palestinians are entitled to any part of the 67 Borders”,
> Of course there is silence. In his You Tube  Video the speaker states that Israel isn’t entitled to any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, another question no one answers is - can Hamas or PA  really give peace to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas and PA - two bald men fighting over a comb.
Click to expand...


Arabs go to wars against each other for even less than that. The tribal revenge laws are enacted to the 11th generation.

Regarding the ability to conduct peaceful relations this just confirms the old Arabic  proverb -*"How can You give something which You don't have?"*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.









And before Israel there were only 3 houses in this "village",
this recent Arab settlement is no more than a health hazard on the side of the main road.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.




The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.

The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.

The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.

In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.

Source


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is not Dabka, this is Chappi an ancient Kurdish dance and melody.


What does show more lack of roots than an obvious attempt to appropriate other nation's culture?


----------



## Billo_Really

I'd like to wish all my Israeli friends a happy 4th of July............. except you......... and you ............and you........... and especially you!


----------



## rylah

*Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
Click to expand...

So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*


She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.
Click to expand...


No she actually stated:
_
"Khan al-Ahmar was built on land that belongs to the State of Israel. It is situated in an area under full Israeli administrative and security authority according to both the Oslo Accords and international law. In fact, *it sits on land that is part of Kfar Adumim,* in the heart of an area that is strategically critical to Israel’s security.

The residents of Khan al-Ahmar are one branch of the large Jahalin Bedouin tribe. Until fairly recently, they were nomadic shepherds who lived, with the rest of the tribe, near Arad, and moved their herds and tents around southern Israel with the changing seasons. *At some point, a feud broke out between different branches of the tribe; in the 1970s, the Jahalin were forced out of the Arad area and traveled northward. That’s how they ended up where they are today.*

Aerial photos paint a clear picture of the Jahalin’s history ever since: They arrived in the Adumim region in the mid-1970s, most probably after the Yom Kippur War of 1973."
_
*Q. ** Is it the traditional Pali desperate compulsive lying ,or do You also run on the streets trying to convince people You've been visited by Santa?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No she actually stated:
> _
> "Khan al-Ahmar was built on land that belongs to the State of Israel. It is situated in an area under full Israeli administrative and security authority according to both the Oslo Accords and international law. In fact, *it sits on land that is part of Kfar Adumim,* in the heart of an area that is strategically critical to Israel’s security.
> 
> The residents of Khan al-Ahmar are one branch of the large Jahalin Bedouin tribe. Until fairly recently, they were nomadic shepherds who lived, with the rest of the tribe, near Arad, and moved their herds and tents around southern Israel with the changing seasons. *At some point, a feud broke out between different branches of the tribe; in the 1970s, the Jahalin were forced out of the Arad area and traveled northward. That’s how they ended up where they are today.*
> 
> Aerial photos paint a clear picture of the Jahalin’s history ever since: They arrived in the Adumim region in the mid-1970s, most probably after the Yom Kippur War of 1973."
> _
> *Q. Do You also run on the streets trying to convince people You've been visited by Santa? Or is it just compulsive lying?*
Click to expand...

I am correct. Khan al-Ahmar sits inside an illegal settlement in the West Bank.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
Click to expand...


She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?
Click to expand...

Was that the Islamic version of jihad or the propaganda version?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that the Islamic version of jihad or the propaganda version?
Click to expand...


Shirley, you have a YouTube video?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No she actually stated:
> _
> "Khan al-Ahmar was built on land that belongs to the State of Israel. It is situated in an area under full Israeli administrative and security authority according to both the Oslo Accords and international law. In fact, *it sits on land that is part of Kfar Adumim,* in the heart of an area that is strategically critical to Israel’s security.
> 
> The residents of Khan al-Ahmar are one branch of the large Jahalin Bedouin tribe. Until fairly recently, they were nomadic shepherds who lived, with the rest of the tribe, near Arad, and moved their herds and tents around southern Israel with the changing seasons. *At some point, a feud broke out between different branches of the tribe; in the 1970s, the Jahalin were forced out of the Arad area and traveled northward. That’s how they ended up where they are today.*
> 
> Aerial photos paint a clear picture of the Jahalin’s history ever since: They arrived in the Adumim region in the mid-1970s, most probably after the Yom Kippur War of 1973."
> _
> *Q. Do You also run on the streets trying to convince people You've been visited by Santa? Or is it just compulsive lying?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am correct. Khan al-Ahmar sits inside an illegal settlement in the West Bank.
Click to expand...

Where does she state so in the article?
Your legal opinions should be printed on toilet paper, that at least would serve some useful purpose.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that the Islamic version of jihad or the propaganda version?
Click to expand...


You make no sense dude, at all.

Although I can understand, how exposing Your favorite Jihadi-whore's plan to wage war against America makes You so irrational.

I didn't realize You 2 were so romantic. Sorry 
Keep on promoting Jihad against the US, the rest of the 72 whores are patiently waiting for Your martyrdom.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that the Islamic version of jihad or the propaganda version?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make no sense dude, at all.
> 
> Although I can understand, how exposing Your favorite Jihadi-whore's plan to wage war against America makes You so irrational.
> 
> I didn't realize You 2 were so romantic. Sorry
Click to expand...

Meaningless post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fighting for your right to exist looks like today in the village of Khan Al-Ahmar where Palestinians protesters were attacked by Israeli forces. The demolition will displace 200 people to make way for the expansion of settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No she actually stated:
> _
> "Khan al-Ahmar was built on land that belongs to the State of Israel. It is situated in an area under full Israeli administrative and security authority according to both the Oslo Accords and international law. In fact, *it sits on land that is part of Kfar Adumim,* in the heart of an area that is strategically critical to Israel’s security.
> 
> The residents of Khan al-Ahmar are one branch of the large Jahalin Bedouin tribe. Until fairly recently, they were nomadic shepherds who lived, with the rest of the tribe, near Arad, and moved their herds and tents around southern Israel with the changing seasons. *At some point, a feud broke out between different branches of the tribe; in the 1970s, the Jahalin were forced out of the Arad area and traveled northward. That’s how they ended up where they are today.*
> 
> Aerial photos paint a clear picture of the Jahalin’s history ever since: They arrived in the Adumim region in the mid-1970s, most probably after the Yom Kippur War of 1973."
> _
> *Q. Do You also run on the streets trying to convince people You've been visited by Santa? Or is it just compulsive lying?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am correct. Khan al-Ahmar sits inside an illegal settlement in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does she state so in the article?
> Your legal opinions should be printed on toilet paper, that at least would serve some useful purpose.
Click to expand...

Read the map. Both Khan al-Ahmar and Kfar Adumim sit inside the West Bank.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Anni Cyrus exposes Palestinian hate for America and Human society*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She shouldn't be sitting down if she is going to do stand up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She should publicly call for Jihad against America as the Palestinian whore suggested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that the Islamic version of jihad or the propaganda version?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make no sense dude, at all.
> 
> Although I can understand, how exposing Your favorite Jihadi-whore's plan to wage war against America makes You so irrational.
> 
> I didn't realize You 2 were so romantic. Sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meaningless post.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore keep on promoting Jihad against the US, the rest of the 72 whores are patiently waiting for Your martyrdom.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The encampment that began to take shape in the 1970s overlooks Route 1, the main artery connecting Jerusalem, Ma’aleh Adumim and the Dead Sea beyond. From their very first day on the site, the Jahalin were well-aware that the land they had squatted on was within the municipal boundaries of Kfar Adumim. The also knew that this location was not a long-term solution for their housing needs.
> 
> The Israeli government initiated a dialogue with the Jahalin more than a decade ago, offering them alternatives. All around Khan al-Ahmar, Route 1 was expanding, and some of the Bedouin living there simply moved elsewhere to avoid the noise and traffic. It was clear to the Jahalin that they could not remain where they were, and they signed a relocation agreement with the State of Israel.
> 
> The government promptly set aside state land for a new neighborhood on the outskirts of Abu Dis, named “Jahalin West,” and offered a package worth over half a million shekels for each wife in each of the Jahalin households—a package that includes a large plot of land, completely developed and zoned for residential construction, with infrastructure for water and electricity. The new neighborhood will offer services that the Jahalin can only dream of today—services the P.A. and E.U. have never offered them, including health clinics, public transportation, proper schools, access to employment and more.
> 
> In off-the-record conversations, the Jahalin will tell you how eager they are to relocate and to begin to build their lives in a modern, legal neighborhood. But they will also tell you about how they are threatened by the Palestinian Authority, which will not allow them to relinquish their hold on the strategic piece of land on which Khan al-Ahmar sits.
> 
> Source
> 
> 
> 
> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No she actually stated:
> _
> "Khan al-Ahmar was built on land that belongs to the State of Israel. It is situated in an area under full Israeli administrative and security authority according to both the Oslo Accords and international law. In fact, *it sits on land that is part of Kfar Adumim,* in the heart of an area that is strategically critical to Israel’s security.
> 
> The residents of Khan al-Ahmar are one branch of the large Jahalin Bedouin tribe. Until fairly recently, they were nomadic shepherds who lived, with the rest of the tribe, near Arad, and moved their herds and tents around southern Israel with the changing seasons. *At some point, a feud broke out between different branches of the tribe; in the 1970s, the Jahalin were forced out of the Arad area and traveled northward. That’s how they ended up where they are today.*
> 
> Aerial photos paint a clear picture of the Jahalin’s history ever since: They arrived in the Adumim region in the mid-1970s, most probably after the Yom Kippur War of 1973."
> _
> *Q. Do You also run on the streets trying to convince people You've been visited by Santa? Or is it just compulsive lying?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am correct. Khan al-Ahmar sits inside an illegal settlement in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does she state so in the article?
> Your legal opinions should be printed on toilet paper, that at least would serve some useful purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the map. Both Khan al-Ahmar and Kfar Adumim sit inside the West Bank.
Click to expand...


And the West Bank sits inside Judea Samria.
What part of that land was not vested with the Jewish nation's sovereignty to begin with?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*



Of course Gaza'istan is in crisis. It's an islamic terrorist enclave, largely lawless and corrupt.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **



*Eva Bartlett* is a Canadian blogger who covers the Middle East, particularly Palestine and Syria.
She has the conspiracy website _InGaza._[1] She is known for advocacy on behalf of Bashar al-Assad, and is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories about the Syrian Civil War.[2][3][4][5]
Eva Bartlett - Wikipedia

That's funny how Your search the bottom of the bin for conspiracy lunatics, to excuse Your own voluntary  idiocy.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett* is a Canadian blogger who covers the Middle East, particularly Palestine and Syria.
> She has the conspiracy website _InGaza._[1] She is known for advocacy on behalf of Bashar al-Assad, and is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories about the Syrian Civil War.[2][3][4][5]
> Eva Bartlett - Wikipedia
> 
> That's funny how Your search the bottom of the bin for conspiracy lunatics, to excuse Your own voluntary  idiocy.
Click to expand...

Typical bullshit propaganda ploy. Slime the source - ignore the issues.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett* is a Canadian blogger who covers the Middle East, particularly Palestine and Syria.
> She has the conspiracy website _InGaza._[1] She is known for advocacy on behalf of Bashar al-Assad, and is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories about the Syrian Civil War.[2][3][4][5]
> Eva Bartlett - Wikipedia
> 
> That's funny how Your search the bottom of the bin for conspiracy lunatics, to excuse Your own voluntary  idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical bullshit propaganda ploy. Slime the source - ignore the issues.
Click to expand...


Is it like when You automatically complain about posts with Israeli sources, minutes after You flooded the board with hours of Israeli NGO videos?

You're patently mad. Chill a bit and learn to construct a coherent argument.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett* is a Canadian blogger who covers the Middle East, particularly Palestine and Syria.
> She has the conspiracy website _InGaza._[1] She is known for advocacy on behalf of Bashar al-Assad, and is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories about the Syrian Civil War.[2][3][4][5]
> Eva Bartlett - Wikipedia
> 
> That's funny how Your search the bottom of the bin for conspiracy lunatics, to excuse Your own voluntary  idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical bullshit propaganda ploy. Slime the source - ignore the issues.
Click to expand...


When your source is a conspiracy theory loon, you become an accomplice to conspiracy theory looney. 

Cut and paste some more Press TV videos from YouTube. 

Looney^2.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So you link to an Israeli propaganda site. She herself states that Khan al-Ahmar sits inside the illegal settlement of Kfar Adumim then she carries on like Israel owns the place.



On the contrary, she corrects some fundamental and deliberate untruths which are spread in order to demonize Israel.  Not the least of which is the whole idea of "illegal settlements", but only if you are a Jew.  

Actually, its Khan al-Ahmar that is an illegal settlement and it is the Arabs who are acting like they own the place, with the support of the international community.  (Building schools on land held by squatters in another nation's sovereign territory (or at least territory under their control)?!  That is unheard of!)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I am correct. Khan al-Ahmar sits inside an illegal settlement in the West Bank.




There is no such thing as the "West Bank", remember?  That boundary line does not exist in law.  Funny how you don't mind using fake boundary lines to support your argument when it is convenient for you.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Typical bullshit propaganda ploy. Slime the source - ignore the issues.



Lol.  You mean like you just did with your response to my post and my "Israel propaganda sites".  Hypocrite.


----------



## Shusha

The abuses that the people of Khan al-Ahmar are experiencing at the hands of the Palestinians with the support of the international community are unconscionable.  

Those ~200 people, the majority children, are being compelled to squat on land with no infrastructure, no schools, no medical facilities, in the shadow of a major highway which poses some risk to them.  

Alternatively, less than 1 km away, they have been offered an entire town with running water, electricity, sewage treatment, solid waste disposal, schools, medical facilities, social services all with legal full private land ownership for each and every family complete not only with building permits but pre-built concrete foundations and building materials.  

The mentality of the Palestinian government and the international communities and a great number of the Palestinian people that it is better to suffer than what? live under Israeli rule? is a tragedy on all levels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories*



What Palestinian culture? 
Having a ministry is not enough to claim Kurdish dance, music, and Arabian folklore as the culture of the place.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Palestinian culture?
> Having a ministry is not enough to claim Kurdish dance, music, and Arabian folklore as the culture of the place.
Click to expand...


Q. Did any nation actually develop any distinct culture in that land, for the last 2000 years except for Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories*



Obviously, you don’t see the humor in being forced to troll YouTube to find a Pallywood style canned video for an invented culture to be applied to an invented people with an invented identity.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Palestinian culture:
Ok enough with this "modernism"...

Q. Is there any ancient folk song in Arabic mentioning the word _'Palestine'?_


----------



## Hollie

Even this guy agrees - what Pal'istanians?


----------



## Hollie

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...j1j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

cul·ture
ˈkəlCHər/
_noun_

1. 
the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
"20th century popular culture"


I was curious to see if Tinmore could gee-had the thread with YouTube videos of Pal’istanian “cultural achievements”


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...j1j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
> 
> cul·ture
> ˈkəlCHər/
> _noun_
> 
> 1.
> the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
> "20th century popular culture"
> 
> 
> I was curious to see if Tinmore could gee-had the thread with YouTube videos of Pal’istanian “cultural achievements”




Just look at Jews - conquest, invasion, forced conversion, exile... yet have produced the most influential works under those hostile conditions.


Arabs who're now living in the same land?
Nada. Didn't even develop an elementary road system.
Suicide bombing and hijacking of jets are the only things that keep coming to mind...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Destruction of Palestinian Culture - Real Stories*
> 
> **



Another propaganda video with no source material about the events in question.  Indeed, no way to even determine what event is being discussed, let alone determining any facts of the matter.  Just another, "Jews are evil" post.  And if we do manage to dredge up the facts of the matter and try to discuss them, you will just drop the subject, like you did with the Khan al Ahmar post, and bring up a new "Jews are evil" post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **



15 minutes into the video and I couldn't keep on with the count of bold lies and blood libels she has spewed.

*1st* of all this is not Palestine "today", this is 4 years ago.
*2nd* - She says Israel knew exactly where the kidnapped boys were - that's a lie she never proves, because she knows it to be a big lie - and she repeats it many times to the letter of Goebbels.
*3rd* - She assumes proportionality is a game of tit for tat - this idiocy is only demanded of Israelis.
*4th* - Hamas rockets cause no damage - let me invite her to Sderot and see whether she moves when the sirens go off.* My guess she'll run away to greener fields  as she did from Tul Karem.*

I have always remembered Karmi as a racist hateful granny. She never fails to deliver on that.

Q.Now what's with the whole notion of Marxism being the future of Palestine?
Is this just a conversion technique for useful idiots in the west, or do they mean it?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **



She states Israel has no interest in a peace deal.
I have always asked  - How the PA or Hamas are capable of giving peace to Israel when they can't stop murdering themselves?

No Pali supporter is ever capable of answering that, because You guys know that normalization means the end of Hamas and PA as well as specialized welfare budgets from world states, which Palis demand as some other form of their "natural right" others are obliged to provide.

*In other words - she's another Palestinian player who's income and personal status is directly dependent on the prolonging of the conflict *.


----------



## rylah

I must say it's astonishing how P F Tinmore is running away from each and every argument.
Pretty sure we watch his videos more than he does, and he has no clue what's in there.

9 consecutive years of daily anti-Israel bashing, and still zero personal opinion 
Really creepy.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **



Wait.  She says that Israel wants the whole of the territory between the river and the sea.  And that's a bad thing.  And it obstructs the peace process.

There goes your whole argument, Tinmore.  You've dissolved your entire argument with one post.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  She says that Israel wants the whole of the territory between the river and the sea.  And that's a bad thing.  And it obstructs the peace process.
> 
> There goes your whole argument, Tinmore.  You've dissolved your entire argument with one post.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  She says that Israel wants the whole of the territory between the river and the sea.  And that's a bad thing.  And it obstructs the peace process.
> 
> There goes your whole argument, Tinmore.  You've dissolved your entire argument with one post.
Click to expand...

How so? Israel is a settler colonial project. All of Palestine without the Palestinians has always been their goal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  She says that Israel wants the whole of the territory between the river and the sea.  And that's a bad thing.  And it obstructs the peace process.
> 
> There goes your whole argument, Tinmore.  You've dissolved your entire argument with one post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so? Israel is a settler colonial project. All of Palestine without the Palestinians has always been their goal.
Click to expand...


How so?

Link?

On the other hand:

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).”


----------



## P F Tinmore

* “Poster girl of revolution"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The future of Palestine - Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  She says that Israel wants the whole of the territory between the river and the sea.  And that's a bad thing.  And it obstructs the peace process.
> 
> There goes your whole argument, Tinmore.  You've dissolved your entire argument with one post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so? Israel is a settler colonial project. All of Palestine without the Palestinians has always been their goal.
Click to expand...


This sentence is a self contradicting slogan, a blood libel,  actually exposes more of Your own racism rather than the perceived Jewish "conspiracy ploy."
How could this accusation even pass the test of logical  examination,
when Palestinian Jews themselves called for liberation of the land from the Arab yoke and welcomed, and actively supported their brothers returning from abroad? And when Palestinians Jews themselves became an integral part of Israel?

On the other hand- 
(1) You use the word *"Palestinian" to exclude any Jew*, while Israelis are 20% Arabs.
(2) You blame Israel for wanting the whole of the land, while openly shouting *"from the river to the sea"*
(3) The ambassador of PA is openly demanding an exclusive *Jew-free state*.

Q. What should I conclude form that?


*This fallacy perpetrated by the Arab propaganda is racist to the core.*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> All of Palestine without the Palestinians has always been their goal.



Demonstrably untrue.  BUT having a goal of possessing the whole territory from the river to the sea is evil, remember?  And it obstructs the peace process, remember?

Those facts would be equally true from the Arab side.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

He stole a Jordanian flag.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


How many times are y'all going to spam this story?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many times are y'all going to spam this story?
Click to expand...


Ya’ Allah, I think your Death Cult is worth discussing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is craziest, most ridiculous type of false propaganda and one-sided narrative.  It contains clips from one of Corey Gil-Shuster's videos, and while I can't find that exact clip at the moment, I know it has been heavily edited to only show the negative.  

This video was uploaded to Youtube in March of this year.  I was there in April, walking those same streets and talking to those same shopkeepers (in one case quite literally).  In the old city of Jerusalem markets, where this video was filmed, there are Arab Muslim shopkeepers, Jewish shopkeepers, Christian shopkeepers all working right next to each other, running coffee for each other, bantering with tourists, and working, long, exhausting hours trying to support their families.  In many cases, to the tourist, there was little way of knowing whether a shopkeeper was Muslim or Jewish or Christian.  And who cares?!  (The only way to tell besides talking to them, for me, is that most of the Muslims tended to assume that the red-haired, green-eyed Canadian was Christian, whereas most of the Jewish shopkeepers tended to ask me if I was Jewish.)

Everywhere in the Old City you can find anyone of any culture or ethnicity or nationality.  It is a beautiful mish-mash of all sorts of people.  And this is equally true of the plaza outside the Kotel, and even within the barriers of the Kotel itself.  Jews, Christians, Muslims, locals, tourists, everyone.  There is a sign which says "EVERYONE is welcome in this place".  

The only place in the Old City where this did not hold true was on the Temple Mount, where non-Muslims are specifically and rigorously excluded.  

Does this mean there is no discrimination?  Not in the least.  I'm sure there is discrimination under the surface, just as it is in ALL other place in the world.  

But to paint the Old City of Jerusalem as a place of oppression and unfair or unequal treatment is patently false and only serves to create lies to demonize Israel (and Jews).


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza, Nakba, & the US Embassy w/ Yousef Munayyer*

**


----------



## Hollie

Gaza’istan and the various Muhammuds.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is craziest, most ridiculous type of false propaganda and one-sided narrative.  It contains clips from one of Corey Gil-Shuster's videos, and while I can't find that exact clip at the moment, I know it has been heavily edited to only show the negative.
> 
> This video was uploaded to Youtube in March of this year.  I was there in April, walking those same streets and talking to those same shopkeepers (in one case quite literally).  In the old city of Jerusalem markets, where this video was filmed, there are Arab Muslim shopkeepers, Jewish shopkeepers, Christian shopkeepers all working right next to each other, running coffee for each other, bantering with tourists, and working, long, exhausting hours trying to support their families.  In many cases, to the tourist, there was little way of knowing whether a shopkeeper was Muslim or Jewish or Christian.  And who cares?!  (The only way to tell besides talking to them, for me, is that most of the Muslims tended to assume that the red-haired, green-eyed Canadian was Christian, whereas most of the Jewish shopkeepers tended to ask me if I was Jewish.)
> 
> Everywhere in the Old City you can find anyone of any culture or ethnicity or nationality.  It is a beautiful mish-mash of all sorts of people.  And this is equally true of the plaza outside the Kotel, and even within the barriers of the Kotel itself.  Jews, Christians, Muslims, locals, tourists, everyone.  There is a sign which says "EVERYONE is welcome in this place".
> 
> The only place in the Old City where this did not hold true was on the Temple Mount, where non-Muslims are specifically and rigorously excluded.
> 
> Does this mean there is no discrimination?  Not in the least.  I'm sure there is discrimination under the surface, just as it is in ALL other place in the world.
> 
> But to paint the Old City of Jerusalem as a place of oppression and unfair or unequal treatment is patently false and only serves to create lies to demonize Israel (and Jews).
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Yet another Islamic terrorist misfit


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



It appears he stole a Jordanian flag?

Is he trying to elude the police?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

One more Palestinian family has been turned homeless by the Israeli occupation. The owner of the house said his family were expelled from their house at 7 in the morning before the Israelis mercilessly razed it to the ground.

Bethlehem, 3 July 2018.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> One more Palestinian family has been turned homeless by the Israeli occupation. The owner of the house said his family were expelled from their house at 7 in the morning before the Israelis mercilessly razed it to the ground.
> 
> Bethlehem, 3 July 2018.



Another Arab-Moslem illegal settler stealing land?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabs-moslems learning the ways of violence and retrogression. 

The way of the Arab-moslem warlord "prophet".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


Islamic terrorists in training?

The ski mask thing is popular with hamas retrogrades.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



I don't believe that Jordan wants any more Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Prince of Dead Gee-had walking


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza International Airport *


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza International Airport *



Islamic Terrorist Airways?

Don't think so.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Mother of the Year Award nominee. *

*Palestinian mother is happy that all her sons are terrorists "5 in prison and 2 dead, Praise Allah"*

Palestinian mother is happy that all her sons are terrorists "5 in prison and 2 dead, Praise Allah" - Free Speech Time


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli Occupation arrested 9 Palestinian women in Araqeeb village that were attempting to block the bulldozers that the Jewish National Fund brought to destroy their land to get ready to steal it from them.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ecocertifmrl

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



An official representative of an organization responsible for hijacking planes, is whining about "western security measures"?

GOOD!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Funny, two Muslim occupiers openly state that Jews are enemies.
Ain't the story of Pakistani is murder and forced transfer millions when India was partitioned?

Israel is the only middle eastern country Muslims failed to steal.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Well, I can't find a reliable source for this number.  But essentially, it is to say that Arabs planted 800,000 trees in hopes of creating "legal facts on the ground", ie:  "Look, its cultivated therefore its mine!"


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can't find a reliable source for this number.  But essentially, it is to say that Arabs planted 800,000 trees in hopes of creating "legal facts on the ground", ie:  "Look, its cultivated therefore its mine!"
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do that all the time.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I can't find a reliable source for this number.  But essentially, it is to say that Arabs planted 800,000 trees in hopes of creating "legal facts on the ground", ie:  "Look, its cultivated therefore its mine!"
Click to expand...


Arabs use olive trees synonym to refer to themselves.
Those numbers are used as an allegory.

I doubt that in this scarce territory there was ever this number of trees, of all kinds combined.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli assholes stealing land.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli assholes stealing land.



How can Israel steal land that was vested with its' sovereignty by an act of international law?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli assholes stealing land.



Nothing to indicate that.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to indicate that.
Click to expand...

You've made me laugh plenty today - I guess it's about time to rest a bit. All this hard work


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can Israel steal land that was vested with its' sovereignty by an act of international law?
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to indicate that.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can Israel steal land that was vested with its' sovereignty by an act of international law?
Click to expand...


And our poor P F Tinmore still can't disprove this simple fact.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can Israel steal land that was vested with its' sovereignty by an act of international law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And our poor P F Tinmore still can't disprove this simple fact.
Click to expand...

What is the fact you're referring to?


----------



## rylah

*Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
*tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
*tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.

The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.


San Remo was not a land treaty.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli assholes stealing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to indicate that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


You poor, dear. You mistake your pointless spam with Pallywood Studio videos as something of substance.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
Click to expand...


However, the Treaty of Lausanne was, as it invented your imagined “country of Pally’Land.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
Click to expand...


Actually it was, borders were created and sovereignty was given to future new governments and their national beneficiaries.

Whole of Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was, borders were created and sovereignty was given to future new governments and their national beneficiaries.
> 
> Whole of Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
Click to expand...

The "national home" was not to be a Jewish state.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was, borders were created and sovereignty was given to future new governments and their national beneficiaries.
> 
> Whole of Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "national home" was not to be a Jewish state.
Click to expand...


It was to be whatever the Jewish Nation would form it to be, according to the framework of the mandate. No one else had a right to interfere.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> San Remo was not a land treaty.



Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sovereignty was transferred to the Jewish nation over all of Palestine in 2 steps:*
> *tire 1* - From the defeated Central Powers to the Principled Allied Powers at the end of WWI
> *tire 2 *- At the San Remo conference that sovereignty was then devolved to each national beneficiaries of the Mandates. Palestine was a class A Mandate together with Iraq and Syria.
> 
> The sovereignty was vested with the Jewish people from April 24 1920 at San Remo Conference, combined with art.22 of the League of Nations the two together formed sovereignty over Palestine, and that was given to the Jewish nation.
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually it was, borders were created and sovereignty was given to future new governments and their national beneficiaries.
> 
> Whole of Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "national home" was not to be a Jewish state.
Click to expand...


There was no prohibition on the Jewish people creating a State.  On the contrary, the "national home" was to be run for Jewish self-determination by a Jewish government on a specific territory.  Those are specifically the requirements for Statehood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
Click to expand...

Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


“......because I say so”

Typical Tinmore’ism.

Shirley, you have a YouTube video?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Correct, and by definition Arabs in Palestine were subjects of the legally forming Jewish state.

Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory. While Arabs jointly with Britain interfered with the formation of the only non exclusively-Arab country in the region.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


The sovereignty went to the Jews of the territory labelled Palestine and to the Arabs of the territory labelled Palestine.  There was no prohibition on the creation of a State for the self-determination of the Jewish people in Palestine and, in point of fact, that very thing was specifically called for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct, and by definition Arabs in Palestine were subjects of the legally forming Jewish state.
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory. While Arabs jointly with Britain interfered with the formation of the only non exclusively-Arab country in the region.
Click to expand...

Israeli say so.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> reation of a State for the self-determination of the Jewish people in Palestine and, in point of fact, that very thing was specifically called for.


By Judas?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The sovereignty went to the Jews of the territory labelled Palestine and to the Arabs of the territory labelled Palestine.  There was no prohibition on the creation of a State for the self-determination of the Jewish people in Palestine and, in point of fact, that very thing was specifically called for.
Click to expand...

Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..
Click to expand...


I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.

In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct, and by definition Arabs in Palestine were subjects of the legally forming Jewish state.
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory. While Arabs jointly with Britain interfered with the formation of the only non exclusively-Arab country in the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli say so.
Click to expand...


More like a documented action of international law, by which vested the sovereignty over all of Palestine to the Jewish nation.

Couldn't be more simple than that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Remo was not a land treaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just making up terms.  What is a "land treaty" and how does it differ from a sovereignty treaty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sovereignty was determined by existing international law. The country went to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct, and by definition Arabs in Palestine were subjects of the legally forming Jewish state.
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory. While Arabs jointly with Britain interfered with the formation of the only non exclusively-Arab country in the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More like a documented action of international law, by which vested the sovereignty over all of Palestine to the Jewish nation.
> 
> Couldn't be more simple than that.
Click to expand...

OK, that is your point. Where is your proof?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
> Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.
> 
> In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.
Click to expand...

What I found funny was "sphere of their legal national territory"

What would be your argument if I told you that a cobra gives birth to a monkey out of its ass?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> More like a documented action of international law, by which vested the sovereignty over all of Palestine to the Jewish nation.




If you kill a fly with the tip of your spoon the gods believe you ate it.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
> Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.
> 
> In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I found funny was "sphere of their legal national territory"
> 
> What would be your argument if I told you that a cobra gives birth to a monkey out of its ass?
Click to expand...


I'd argue that You can't contradict my initial point, and therefore reserve to these silly deflections.
You're a weak opponent.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
> Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.
> 
> In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I found funny was "sphere of their legal national territory"
> 
> What would be your argument if I told you that a cobra gives birth to a monkey out of its ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd argue that You can't contradict my initial point, and therefore reserve to these silly deflections.
> You're a weak opponent.
Click to expand...

You are free to argue - and I am free not to.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews didn't sabotage the formation of any Arab state  outside the sphere of their legal national territory..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
> Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.
> 
> In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I found funny was "sphere of their legal national territory"
> 
> What would be your argument if I told you that a cobra gives birth to a monkey out of its ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd argue that You can't contradict my initial point, and therefore reserve to these silly deflections.
> You're a weak opponent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are free to argue - and I am free not to.
Click to expand...


Legally, by avoiding an argument You confirm to the compliance ("understanding") with the plaintiff's files.

What do You expect from a discussion forum?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.



Of course it matters.  Both peoples want self-determination independent of the other.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it matters.  Both peoples want self-determination independent of the other.
Click to expand...

Actually Israelis want it at the expense of the other.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it matters.  Both peoples want self-determination independent of the other.
Click to expand...

All of the Palestinians have the equal right to self determination. The Jews already had the equal right to self determination. Why should there be a distinction?


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see facts make You laugh, but where is the opposing argumentation?
> Jews didn't sabotage, or take a part in the formation of Iraq, Syria or Lebanon,  because in those countries the Jewish nation wasn't the responsible national beneficiary- those were Arab states.
> 
> In Palestine the Jewish nation was the responsible beneficiary. There was simply no other sovereign nation mentioned. It's black on white.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I found funny was "sphere of their legal national territory"
> 
> What would be your argument if I told you that a cobra gives birth to a monkey out of its ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd argue that You can't contradict my initial point, and therefore reserve to these silly deflections.
> You're a weak opponent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are free to argue - and I am free not to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legally, by avoiding an argument You confirm to the compliance ("understanding") with the plaintiff's files.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what that means but i guess it isn't true.
[/QUOTE]



> What do You expect from a discussion forum?


You are more or less what I expect. As you can see my expectations are very modest.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it matters.  Both peoples want self-determination independent of the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Israelis want it at the expense of the other.
Click to expand...


The other way around. When You guys say _"Palestinians"_ it refers exclusively to Arabs.
And there's not one Arab country which You can compare to Israel, where Arabs and Jews enjoy the same level of equality and prosperity

You want to destroy it at the expense of both.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, all of the people who lived in the territory that became Palestine became citizens of Palestine without distinction. There were Muslims, Christians, and Jews who were citizens but that distinction was legally irrelevant. There is no reason to even bring it up because it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it matters.  Both peoples want self-determination independent of the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually Israelis want it at the expense of the other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The other way around. When You guys say _"Palestinians"_ it refers exclusively to Arabs.
> And there's not one Arab country which You can compare to Israel, where Arabs and Jews enjoy the same level of equality and prosperity
> 
> You want to destroy it at the expense of both.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was born with a natural passion for killing Jews.

I refer you (didn't I do that already yesterday?) to the thread I made two days ago, "Hamas or Palestinians or Hamas."


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Manal Tamimi: Freedom Flotilla Shows People Still Believe In Justice For Palestinians*

**


----------



## rylah

*Sheikh Abdallah Tamimi - in a meeting with Gush Atziyon*.


One of the heads of Hebron Arab community basically talks about a preference in dealing with a right wing govt. Talks about alternative forums based on religious direct conversation between Sheikhs and Jewish elders. And a need to create instruments for constructive relations between average Israeli population and the population in the surrounding Arab nations.
Yes and that's a Tamimi sheikh.


Something the media will never mention.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Manal Tamimi: Freedom Flotilla Shows People Still Believe In Justice For Palestinians*



What a shame the fraudulent “freedom flotilla” can’t sail past the israeli jail holding the younger Tamimi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why the Freedom Flotilla Must Sail: A Conversation with Portuguese MP Bruno Dias*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Manal Tamimi: Freedom Flotilla Shows People Still Believe In Justice For Palestinians*
> 
> **



Ahed Tamimi was jailed for public incitement to murder.
It's interesting how after visiting the Israeli jail, we hear about a decision to pursue education,
for the first time.

Fascinating.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why the Freedom Flotilla Must Sail: A Conversation with Portuguese MP Bruno Dias*



The silly “justice for Islamic terrorists” is comical in view of the Islamist gee-had being waged near the Israeli border.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'Freedom Flotilla' Heading for Gaza to Raise Awareness*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *'Freedom Flotilla' Heading for Gaza to Raise Awareness*



Why not pick up some kite string, condoms, old tires and flammable liquid and join the other Islamic terrorist losers creating an environmental hazard?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Manal Tamimi: Freedom Flotilla Shows People Still Believe In Justice For Palestinians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi was jailed for public incitement to murder.
> It's interesting how after visiting the Israeli jail, we hear about a decision to pursue education,
> for the first time.
> 
> Fascinating.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Ahed Tamimi was jailed for public incitement to murder.


Yeah, whatever, kangaroo court.

The education level in Palestine is the highest in the Arab world and is comparable to western industrialized countries.

Someone asked Janna Jihad, Ahed's cousin, where she learned English. She said she goes to an American school.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *'Freedom Flotilla' Heading for Gaza to Raise Awareness*
> 
> **



They are not trying to "raise awareness".  They are trying to create a very set of specific conditions to achieve their goal of a one State solution without any "Jewyness".


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The education level in Palestine is the highest in the Arab world



Cool. You can maybe win a race against other third world Islamist backwaters.


----------



## Shusha

Personally, I think Israel should inspect the crap out of the boats and then just let them in.  And when they want to leave, Israel can inspect the crap out of the boats and let them leave.  No story if they can't show Israel to be "evil".


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The education level in Palestine is the highest in the Arab world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. You can maybe win a race against other third world Islamist backwaters.
Click to expand...

Israel isn't a civilized country either. Which is why their wishes to join the EU face similar problems as Turkey.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Global Empire - A Conversation With Edward Said*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: When did the occupation start?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*



As anyone who has been there can tell you.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*



Not the view of Islamics.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
Click to expand...

One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
Click to expand...


Was that a voice in You head?
The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
Click to expand...



And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
Click to expand...


How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?

We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Christians: 'Jerusalem is for the three religions'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?
> 
> We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.
Click to expand...

Israel has been denied. Being in "separate continents" has nothing to do with it.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the view of Islamics.
> 
> 
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?
> 
> We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been denied. Being in "separate continents" has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...


patently brain damaged. 

The legal basis for EU trade relations with Israel is the EU-Israel Association Agreement
	
, which entered into force in June 2000. The aim of this agreement is to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue and economic cooperation between the EU and Israel.

*Israel is an important trading partner for the EU in the Mediterranean area, and the EU is the first trading partner for Israel with total trade amounting to approximately €36,2  billion in 2017.*
EU exports of goods to Israel amounted to €21,4 billion in 2017. They are dominated by machinery and transport equipment (€9,1 billion, 42,8%), chemicals (€3,6 billion, 16,8%), and other manufactured goods (€3,1 billion, 14,6%).
EU imports from Israel amounted to €14,7 billion in 2017. They are dominated by chemicals (€6,3 billion, 42,7%), machinery and transport equipment (€2,8 billion, 19,3%), as well as other manufactured goods (€1,9 billion, 13,4%).
Israel - Trade - European Commission


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of your friends yesterday said not according you Israelis...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?
> 
> We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been denied. Being in "separate continents" has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> patently brain damaged.
> 
> The legal basis for EU trade relations with Israel is the EU-Israel Association Agreement
> 
> , which entered into force in June 2000. The aim of this agreement is to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue and economic cooperation between the EU and Israel.
> 
> *Israel is an important trading partner for the EU in the Mediterranean area, and the EU is the first trading partner for Israel with total trade amounting to approximately €36,2  billion in 2017.*
> EU exports of goods to Israel amounted to €21,4 billion in 2017. They are dominated by machinery and transport equipment (€9,1 billion, 42,8%), chemicals (€3,6 billion, 16,8%), and other manufactured goods (€3,1 billion, 14,6%).
> EU imports from Israel amounted to €14,7 billion in 2017. They are dominated by chemicals (€6,3 billion, 42,7%), machinery and transport equipment (€2,8 billion, 19,3%), as well as other manufactured goods (€1,9 billion, 13,4%).
> Israel - Trade - European Commission
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand.


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was that a voice in You head?
> The only ones having a set political agenda to deny religious rights in Jerusalem are the Muslims.
> There's no other state in the middle east that respects religious rights of a wide variety of congregations like Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?
> 
> We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been denied. Being in "separate continents" has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> patently brain damaged.
> 
> The legal basis for EU trade relations with Israel is the EU-Israel Association Agreement
> 
> , which entered into force in June 2000. The aim of this agreement is to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue and economic cooperation between the EU and Israel.
> 
> *Israel is an important trading partner for the EU in the Mediterranean area, and the EU is the first trading partner for Israel with total trade amounting to approximately €36,2  billion in 2017.*
> EU exports of goods to Israel amounted to €21,4 billion in 2017. They are dominated by machinery and transport equipment (€9,1 billion, 42,8%), chemicals (€3,6 billion, 16,8%), and other manufactured goods (€3,1 billion, 14,6%).
> EU imports from Israel amounted to €14,7 billion in 2017. They are dominated by chemicals (€6,3 billion, 42,7%), machinery and transport equipment (€2,8 billion, 19,3%), as well as other manufactured goods (€1,9 billion, 13,4%).
> Israel - Trade - European Commission
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you understand.
Click to expand...


I think You're brain damaged with license. 

*Polish technology minister Jadwiga Emilewicz is keen to persuade Israeli entrepreneurs to establish R&D centers in Poland.*

Last week, at the height of the public storm over the Polish law banning holding Poland responsible for the murder of Jews on its territory during the Holocaust, a delegation of 100 Polish businesspeople visited Israel to promote business cooperation between the two countries. The delegation was headed by Polish Minister of Entrepreneurship and Technology Jadwiga Emilewicz and Polish Investment and Trade Agency executive VP Wojciech Fedko. The main event in which the delegation took part was an economic forum in Tel Aviv in which 200 Israeli businesspeople and companies participated.

Poland wants Israeli high tech - Globes

Jewish Palestine aka Israel is very quiet successful in creating new cooperations, Arab Palestine can imagine Israel is doomed and boycotted, it won't change a thing as long as Arab Palestine invests 70% of it's economy in Israel.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet. They are denied from joining the EU because _they do not respect rights of anyone but Jews. And even with the Jews they're picky._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can Israel be denied to join the EU if they're on two separate continents?
> 
> We didn't have posters this dumb for quiet some time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been denied. Being in "separate continents" has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> patently brain damaged.
> 
> The legal basis for EU trade relations with Israel is the EU-Israel Association Agreement
> 
> , which entered into force in June 2000. The aim of this agreement is to provide an appropriate framework for political dialogue and economic cooperation between the EU and Israel.
> 
> *Israel is an important trading partner for the EU in the Mediterranean area, and the EU is the first trading partner for Israel with total trade amounting to approximately €36,2  billion in 2017.*
> EU exports of goods to Israel amounted to €21,4 billion in 2017. They are dominated by machinery and transport equipment (€9,1 billion, 42,8%), chemicals (€3,6 billion, 16,8%), and other manufactured goods (€3,1 billion, 14,6%).
> EU imports from Israel amounted to €14,7 billion in 2017. They are dominated by chemicals (€6,3 billion, 42,7%), machinery and transport equipment (€2,8 billion, 19,3%), as well as other manufactured goods (€1,9 billion, 13,4%).
> Israel - Trade - European Commission
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think you understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think You're brain damaged with license.
> 
> *Polish technology minister Jadwiga Emilewicz is keen to persuade Israeli entrepreneurs to establish R&D centers in Poland.*
> 
> Last week, at the height of the public storm over the Polish law banning holding Poland responsible for the murder of Jews on its territory during the Holocaust, a delegation of 100 Polish businesspeople visited Israel to promote business cooperation between the two countries. The delegation was headed by Polish Minister of Entrepreneurship and Technology Jadwiga Emilewicz and Polish Investment and Trade Agency executive VP Wojciech Fedko. The main event in which the delegation took part was an economic forum in Tel Aviv in which 200 Israeli businesspeople and companies participated.
> 
> Poland wants Israeli high tech - Globes
Click to expand...

So you dont even want to know


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sid Alqam, 6 years and a half prison, and a financial fine 26 thousand shekels.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Sid Alqam, 6 years and a half prison, and a financial fine 26 thousand shekels.



Another of the unsourced and unattributed photos you dump into various threads.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ạstbrq Ibrahim Al-Tamimi, two year s' imprisonment and a financial fine (6) thousands


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ạstbrq Ibrahim Al-Tamimi, two year s' imprisonment and a financial fine (6) thousands



Islamic terrorism carries consequences.

How lucky you are that children are raised in a retrograde islamist environment of hate and self-destruction. It allows you to use them as cheap cut and paste images to promote your rabid Joooooo hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mujahed Tamimi, photo


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time*

Since 2017, the whole Bedouin village has been threatened with demolition by the Israeli authorities. Earlier that day, Israeli soldiers attacked villagers and activists who had staged a protest, injuring 35.

*



*

Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




How does a sovereign nation steal its own state land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does a sovereign nation steal its own state land?
Click to expand...

When did that become Israeli state land? (not just occupied)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time*
> 
> Since 2017, the whole Bedouin village has been threatened with demolition by the Israeli authorities. Earlier that day, Israeli soldiers attacked villagers and activists who had staged a protest, injuring 35.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time




So much misinformation in that article.  Two examples:

_Under international humanitarian law, the deportation of an occupied, civilian population from one area to another in the country, constitutes a war crime._

This is a, well, creative take on the specific law in question.  But note that this law does NOT permit people to squat wherever they choose in the country and ignore local law because "they can't be moved". 

_Israeli authorities have systematically refused to connect the village to water and electricity supplies, and have restricted their farming land_

Israel authorities have a land use management plan which provides for all the people living in the area, in particular for the safety of the squatters who are in too close proximity to the highway.  Israel authorities have provided an entire village, with a half million dollar package for EACH FAMILY including privately owned land, a foundation, building materials as well as full infrastructure of electricity, water, sewers, solid waste disposal, schools, medical facilities, access to roads and complete freedom of movement. And only a kilometer away. The residents refuse to take it. (Palestinian mentality).


----------



## P F Tinmore

A group of Palestinian, Syrian and Jordanian musicians have recorded a cover of British band The Beatles’ track “_Drive my car_” to celebrate Saudi Arabia’s decision to allow women to drive.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time*
> 
> Since 2017, the whole Bedouin village has been threatened with demolition by the Israeli authorities. Earlier that day, Israeli soldiers attacked villagers and activists who had staged a protest, injuring 35.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much misinformation in that article.  Two examples:
> 
> _Under international humanitarian law, the deportation of an occupied, civilian population from one area to another in the country, constitutes a war crime._
> 
> This is a, well, creative take on the specific law in question.  But note that this law does NOT permit people to squat wherever they choose in the country and ignore local law because "they can't be moved".
> 
> _Israeli authorities have systematically refused to connect the village to water and electricity supplies, and have restricted their farming land_
> 
> Israel authorities have a land use management plan which provides for all the people living in the area, in particular for the safety of the squatters who are in too close proximity to the highway.  Israel authorities have provided an entire village, with a half million dollar package for EACH FAMILY including privately owned land, a foundation, building materials as well as full infrastructure of electricity, water, sewers, solid waste disposal, schools, medical facilities, access to roads and complete freedom of movement. And only a kilometer away. The residents refuse to take it. (Palestinian mentality).
Click to expand...

That's all well and good except that is not Israel.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time*
> 
> Since 2017, the whole Bedouin village has been threatened with demolition by the Israeli authorities. Earlier that day, Israeli soldiers attacked villagers and activists who had staged a protest, injuring 35.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much misinformation in that article.  Two examples:
> 
> _Under international humanitarian law, the deportation of an occupied, civilian population from one area to another in the country, constitutes a war crime._
> 
> This is a, well, creative take on the specific law in question.  But note that this law does NOT permit people to squat wherever they choose in the country and ignore local law because "they can't be moved".
> 
> _Israeli authorities have systematically refused to connect the village to water and electricity supplies, and have restricted their farming land_
> 
> Israel authorities have a land use management plan which provides for all the people living in the area, in particular for the safety of the squatters who are in too close proximity to the highway.  Israel authorities have provided an entire village, with a half million dollar package for EACH FAMILY including privately owned land, a foundation, building materials as well as full infrastructure of electricity, water, sewers, solid waste disposal, schools, medical facilities, access to roads and complete freedom of movement. And only a kilometer away. The residents refuse to take it. (Palestinian mentality).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all well and good except that is not Israel.
Click to expand...



Sure it is. Under complete Israeli control by treaty pending a negotiated settlement of borders. How's that coming along for the Arab Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time*
> 
> Since 2017, the whole Bedouin village has been threatened with demolition by the Israeli authorities. Earlier that day, Israeli soldiers attacked villagers and activists who had staged a protest, injuring 35.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Bulldozing Palestine, one village at a time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much misinformation in that article.  Two examples:
> 
> _Under international humanitarian law, the deportation of an occupied, civilian population from one area to another in the country, constitutes a war crime._
> 
> This is a, well, creative take on the specific law in question.  But note that this law does NOT permit people to squat wherever they choose in the country and ignore local law because "they can't be moved".
> 
> _Israeli authorities have systematically refused to connect the village to water and electricity supplies, and have restricted their farming land_
> 
> Israel authorities have a land use management plan which provides for all the people living in the area, in particular for the safety of the squatters who are in too close proximity to the highway.  Israel authorities have provided an entire village, with a half million dollar package for EACH FAMILY including privately owned land, a foundation, building materials as well as full infrastructure of electricity, water, sewers, solid waste disposal, schools, medical facilities, access to roads and complete freedom of movement. And only a kilometer away. The residents refuse to take it. (Palestinian mentality).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all well and good except that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it is. Under complete Israeli control by treaty pending a negotiated settlement of borders. How's that coming along for the Arab Palestinians?
Click to expand...

No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.



The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
Click to expand...

It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
Click to expand...


Treaties between States has been the basis of international law for centuries.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
Click to expand...


You’re rattling off slogans while being unable to identify any rights violation. 

Isn’t there a Press TV YouTube video available? Islamic totalitarian theocrats are where I turn to for examples of conformance with international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re rattling off slogans while being unable to identify any rights violation.
> 
> Isn’t there a Press TV YouTube video available? Islamic totalitarian theocrats are where I turn to for examples of conformance with international law.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

See Article 53 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties between States 1986. 

And then support your claim that the Oslo Accords are void using international legal norms. 

Don't try to pull off any crap about territorial integrity. Because Yugoslavia. Czechoslovakia. USSR. India. Sudan. Etc. Etc. Etc.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re rattling off slogans while being unable to identify any rights violation.
> 
> Isn’t there a Press TV YouTube video available? Islamic totalitarian theocrats are where I turn to for examples of conformance with international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Indeed. I just find it comical that you dump the same worn out cliches into most threads but when pressed to compose a coherent argument, you’re left to cut and paste emojis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.​
That's what I said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers burned 300 olive trees owned by Palestinian farmers near #Nablus yesterday!






Palestine Observer


----------



## Hollie

Speaking of setting fires:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.​
> That's what I said.



That’s what you cut and pasted. 

Where’s the YouTube video?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Calling Israel racist isn’t anti-Semitic, rules UK Labour*

Palestine solidarity campaigners have welcomed
new rules on anti-Semitism passed by the British Labour Party’s ruling executive this week.

Left-wing group Jewish Voice for Labour gave the new rules a cautious welcome, saying in a statement that the code of conduct “offers a constructive framework for moving forward in this difficult area.”

But Israel lobby groups were furious on Wednesday, as details of the new rules emerged.

The new Labour code of conduct on anti-Semitism strips out several of the most damaging clauses of the controversial “working definition” on anti-Semitism published by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA).

Calling Israel racist isn't anti-Semitic, rules UK Labour


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Calling Israel racist isn’t anti-Semitic, rules UK Labour*
> 
> Palestine solidarity campaigners have welcomed
> new rules on anti-Semitism passed by the British Labour Party’s ruling executive this week.
> 
> Left-wing group Jewish Voice for Labour gave the new rules a cautious welcome, saying in a statement that the code of conduct “offers a constructive framework for moving forward in this difficult area.”
> 
> But Israel lobby groups were furious on Wednesday, as details of the new rules emerged.
> 
> The new Labour code of conduct on anti-Semitism strips out several of the most damaging clauses of the controversial “working definition” on anti-Semitism published by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA).
> 
> Calling Israel racist isn't anti-Semitic, rules UK Labour



Israel is not a “race” and Jewish is not a “race”. 

What’s on YouTube?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ending colonialism in Palestine*

Why Palestine Matters: The Struggle to End Colonialism, a new study guide distributed by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network of the Presbyterian Church (USA), represents a significant breakthrough for faith-based groups acting as advocates for Palestinian rights. The guide pinpoints settler colonialism as the underlying basis for Israeli apartheid while also advocating vigorously for an intersectional approach to unify struggles for human rights.

Why does a focus on colonialism matter? For one, it undermines the seemingly “common sense” narrative of Israel as the savior of the Jewish people following the Holocaust during World War II and instead places the largely Western support for the fledgling state in the context of empire.

The history of settler-colonial societies illustrates a pattern of controlling the land and expelling or eliminating the indigenous population. This study guide shows how the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians that began in 1948 and continues today is part of that pattern. That the original imprimatur for the state of Israel came from British colonialism’s Balfour Declaration of 1917 is hardly coincidental.

Ending colonialism in Palestine


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Article 53 Treaties Conflicting With A Peremptory Norm Of General International Law (Jus Cogens)*
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.​
> That's what I said.



And I said you had to follow up with defending your case.

So DEFEND your case.  What norms of general international law does the Oslo Accords conflict with? Be specific.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Presbyterian church body hits back hard at JCPA’s “anti-Semitism” smear over support for Palestinian rights*

The Israel Palestine Mission Network (IPMN) of the Presbyterian Church (USA) has hit back strongly at a smear campaign from a major pro-Israel group aimed at portraying it as “anti-Semitic.”

In responding to allegations from the Jewish Council for Public Affairs (JCPA), IPMN stated:

The world where Israeli government policy cannot be criticized is a thing of the past. There is vigorous debate within the Jewish community around Israel’s military occupation, and groups like the JCPA and others are losing control of the narrative.

*Presbyterian church body hits back hard at JCPA's "anti-Semitism" smear over support for Palestinian rights*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

This is a very broad statement.  I'm not sure that it is actually true.  The set of International laws are only those that are accepted as binding in relations between states. 



P F Tinmore said:


> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.


*(COMMENT)*

The bulk if the International Law are contained _(but not limited to)_ in the list of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), as well as the International Criminal Court - Rome Statues (ICC-RS), and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), together with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCRP) and its two Optional Protocols, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), form the so-called International Bill of Human Rights (IBHR).

The Jurisdiction of Statues within The International Court of Justice established by the Charter of the United Nations comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters specially provided for in the Charter of the United Nations or in treaties and conventions in force.  The states parties to the present Statute may at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory _ipso facto_ and without special agreement, in relation to any other state accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court in all legal disputes concerning:

the interpretation of a treaty;
any question of international law;
the existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
the nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.
Then additionally, there are specialty courts, such as the Admiralty Courts. that hold jurisdiction over such laws as the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (SM-ILAAACS). 

Then, of course, there are the 19 basic Universal Legal Instruments Dealing with Terrorism (CT-Laws).

The International Law Commission generally focuses on the program areas of work:

Crimes against humanity*

Immunity of State officials from the foreign criminal jurisdiction;

Subsequent agreements and subsequent practice in relation to the interpretation of treaties

Provisional application of treaties;

Identification of customary international law

Protection of the environment in relation to armed conflicts;

Protection of the atmosphere;

Peremptory norms of general international law (_jus cogens_);

Succession of States in respect of State responsibility
The blanket statement that "No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law" must be in question, especially when it is used to justify acts and criminal behaviors conducted by an entity claiming to have governmental authority and mounting hostile operations against foreign civilian targets, against foreign powers, or terrorizing its own people.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> 
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Hummm...  This is one of those political smoke screens.  It is like saying Israel is not living-up to its Article 43 obligations (peace and security) when it is actually the Arab Palestinians that have incited violence and disrupted security.  No one can argue this statement when its an allegation made by Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.

PLO-NAD Position: State to State

Israel’s obligations and Palestinian rights with respect to State-to-State issues are enumerated under customary and treaty international law, including the Charter of the UN, the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention and the 1907 Hague Regulations.
Article 43 of the Hague Regulations requires the occupying power to “ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.” This obligation is understood to engage a wide range of responsibility, including ensuring a stable commercial and economic life in the occupied territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A village in danger of erasure*

A photo essay of eliminating a village.

*



*
*Maysam, 14, proudly gives a tour of al-Walaja village. “I love to be outside,” she says.*
The picturesque Palestinian village of al-Walaja, located between Jerusalem and Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank, is known for its verdant landscape, agricultural terraces and numerous springs.
*
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> This is a very broad statement.  I'm not sure that it is actually true.  The set of International laws are only those that are accepted as binding in relations between states.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The bulk if the International Law are contained _(but not limited to)_ in the list of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), as well as the International Criminal Court - Rome Statues (ICC-RS), and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), together with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCRP) and its two Optional Protocols, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), form the so-called International Bill of Human Rights (IBHR).
> 
> The Jurisdiction of Statues within The International Court of Justice established by the Charter of the United Nations comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters specially provided for in the Charter of the United Nations or in treaties and conventions in force.  The states parties to the present Statute may at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory _ipso facto_ and without special agreement, in relation to any other state accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court in all legal disputes concerning:
> 
> the interpretation of a treaty;
> any question of international law;
> the existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
> the nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.
> Then additionally, there are specialty courts, such as the Admiralty Courts. that hold jurisdiction over such laws as the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (SM-ILAAACS).
> 
> Then, of course, there are the 19 basic Universal Legal Instruments Dealing with Terrorism (CT-Laws).
> 
> The International Law Commission generally focuses on the program areas of work:
> 
> Crimes against humanity*
> 
> Immunity of State officials from the foreign criminal jurisdiction;
> 
> Subsequent agreements and subsequent practice in relation to the interpretation of treaties
> 
> Provisional application of treaties;
> 
> Identification of customary international law
> 
> Protection of the environment in relation to armed conflicts;
> 
> Protection of the atmosphere;
> 
> Peremptory norms of general international law (_jus cogens_);
> 
> Succession of States in respect of State responsibility
> The blanket statement that "No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law" must be in question, especially when it is used to justify acts and criminal behaviors conducted by an entity claiming to have governmental authority and mounting hostile operations against foreign civilian targets, against foreign powers, or terrorizing its own people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hummm...  This is one of those political smoke screens.  It is like saying Israel is not living-up to its Article 43 obligations (peace and security) when it is actually the Arab Palestinians that have incited violence and disrupted security.  No one can argue this statement when its an allegation made by Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> PLO-NAD Position: State to State
> 
> Israel’s obligations and Palestinian rights with respect to State-to-State issues are enumerated under customary and treaty international law, including the Charter of the UN, the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention and the 1907 Hague Regulations.
> Article 43 of the Hague Regulations requires the occupying power to “ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.” This obligation is understood to engage a wide range of responsibility, including ensuring a stable commercial and economic life in the occupied territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman.

Where in all that verbosity do you refute my post?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *A village in danger of erasure*
> 
> A photo essay of eliminating a village.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Maysam, 14, proudly gives a tour of al-Walaja village. “I love to be outside,” she says.*
> The picturesque Palestinian village of al-Walaja, located between Jerusalem and Bethlehem in the occupied West Bank, is known for its verdant landscape, agricultural terraces and numerous springs.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli settlers burned 300 olive trees owned by Palestinian farmers near #Nablus yesterday!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Observer


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Yes, you quite often use that response.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very broad statement.  I'm not sure that it is actually true.  The set of International laws are only those that are accepted as binding in relations between states.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The bulk if the International Law are contained _(but not limited to)_ in the list of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), as well as the International Criminal Court - Rome Statues (ICC-RS), and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), together with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCRP) and its two Optional Protocols, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), form the so-called International Bill of Human Rights (IBHR).
> 
> The Jurisdiction of Statues within The International Court of Justice established by the Charter of the United Nations comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters specially provided for in the Charter of the United Nations or in treaties and conventions in force.  The states parties to the present Statute may at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory _ipso facto_ and without special agreement, in relation to any other state accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court in all legal disputes concerning:
> 
> the interpretation of a treaty;
> any question of international law;
> the existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
> the nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.
> Then additionally, there are specialty courts, such as the Admiralty Courts. that hold jurisdiction over such laws as the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (SM-ILAAACS).
> 
> Then, of course, there are the 19 basic Universal Legal Instruments Dealing with Terrorism (CT-Laws).
> 
> The International Law Commission generally focuses on the program areas of work:
> 
> Crimes against humanity*
> 
> Immunity of State officials from the foreign criminal jurisdiction;
> 
> Subsequent agreements and subsequent practice in relation to the interpretation of treaties
> 
> Provisional application of treaties;
> 
> Identification of customary international law
> 
> Protection of the environment in relation to armed conflicts;
> 
> Protection of the atmosphere;
> 
> Peremptory norms of general international law (_jus cogens_);
> 
> Succession of States in respect of State responsibility
> The blanket statement that "No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law" must be in question, especially when it is used to justify acts and criminal behaviors conducted by an entity claiming to have governmental authority and mounting hostile operations against foreign civilian targets, against foreign powers, or terrorizing its own people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hummm...  This is one of those political smoke screens.  It is like saying Israel is not living-up to its Article 43 obligations (peace and security) when it is actually the Arab Palestinians that have incited violence and disrupted security.  No one can argue this statement when its an allegation made by Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> PLO-NAD Position: State to State
> 
> Israel’s obligations and Palestinian rights with respect to State-to-State issues are enumerated under customary and treaty international law, including the Charter of the UN, the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention and the 1907 Hague Regulations.
> Article 43 of the Hague Regulations requires the occupying power to “ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.” This obligation is understood to engage a wide range of responsibility, including ensuring a stable commercial and economic life in the occupied territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> Where in all that verbosity do you refute my post?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As implied, out of all the laws I cited, you never once cited the authority for your position that a particular "international law" supports your theory that a treaty (which is a law) cannot violate an established "right."

Nor have you cited which "right" counters what "law" in any particular time frame.

So your statement is simply unsubstantiated by any fact.  I've cited 30 sets of laws and more than 50 individual "rights."  Which, if any, are in conflict.  Finally, what principle makes. in the assessment of laws and treaties, one superior over the other?

There is nothing to refute because you provided nothing of substance.  It may have sounded like you did, but that is not the case at all.

Be specific.  What is in conflict with what?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,
> 
> Yes, you quite often use that response.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very broad statement.  I'm not sure that it is actually true.  The set of International laws are only those that are accepted as binding in relations between states.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The bulk if the International Law are contained _(but not limited to)_ in the list of Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), as well as the International Criminal Court - Rome Statues (ICC-RS), and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), together with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCRP) and its two Optional Protocols, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR), form the so-called International Bill of Human Rights (IBHR).
> 
> The Jurisdiction of Statues within The International Court of Justice established by the Charter of the United Nations comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters specially provided for in the Charter of the United Nations or in treaties and conventions in force.  The states parties to the present Statute may at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory _ipso facto_ and without special agreement, in relation to any other state accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court in all legal disputes concerning:
> 
> the interpretation of a treaty;
> any question of international law;
> the existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
> the nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.
> Then additionally, there are specialty courts, such as the Admiralty Courts. that hold jurisdiction over such laws as the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (SM-ILAAACS).
> 
> Then, of course, there are the 19 basic Universal Legal Instruments Dealing with Terrorism (CT-Laws).
> 
> The International Law Commission generally focuses on the program areas of work:
> 
> Crimes against humanity*
> 
> Immunity of State officials from the foreign criminal jurisdiction;
> 
> Subsequent agreements and subsequent practice in relation to the interpretation of treaties
> 
> Provisional application of treaties;
> 
> Identification of customary international law
> 
> Protection of the environment in relation to armed conflicts;
> 
> Protection of the atmosphere;
> 
> Peremptory norms of general international law (_jus cogens_);
> 
> Succession of States in respect of State responsibility
> The blanket statement that "No treaty or agreement can allow the violation of international law" must be in question, especially when it is used to justify acts and criminal behaviors conducted by an entity claiming to have governmental authority and mounting hostile operations against foreign civilian targets, against foreign powers, or terrorizing its own people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The formulation of treaties is the BASIS of international law between States and prospective States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is true that the creation of international law is evolutionary. However, they cannot violate established rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hummm...  This is one of those political smoke screens.  It is like saying Israel is not living-up to its Article 43 obligations (peace and security) when it is actually the Arab Palestinians that have incited violence and disrupted security.  No one can argue this statement when its an allegation made by Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> PLO-NAD Position: State to State
> 
> Israel’s obligations and Palestinian rights with respect to State-to-State issues are enumerated under customary and treaty international law, including the Charter of the UN, the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention and the 1907 Hague Regulations.
> Article 43 of the Hague Regulations requires the occupying power to “ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.” This obligation is understood to engage a wide range of responsibility, including ensuring a stable commercial and economic life in the occupied territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> Where in all that verbosity do you refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As implied, out of all the laws I cited, you never once cited the authority for your position that a particular "international law" supports your theory that a treaty (which is a law) cannot violate an established "right."
> 
> Nor have you cited which "right" counters what "law" in any particular time frame.
> 
> So your statement is simply unsubstantiated by any fact.  I've cited 30 sets of laws and more than 50 individual "rights."  Which, if any, are in conflict.  Finally, what principle makes. in the assessment of laws and treaties, one superior over the other?
> 
> There is nothing to refute because you provided nothing of substance.  It may have sounded like you did, but that is not the case at all.
> 
> Be specific.  What is in conflict with what?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are so many violations that it is hard to start. So lets start with Oslo and the settlements. Oslo does not forbid settlements. It merely places them as a "final status" issue. Israel interprets this to mean that settlements are legal until they are negotiated. Not true. What Oslo says or doesn't say is irrelevant. The settlements are illegal either way.

Israel is a settler colonial project. The goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Many violations are required to realize that goal.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So lets start with Oslo and the settlements. Oslo does not forbid settlements. It merely places them as a "final status" issue. Israel interprets this to mean that settlements are legal until they are negotiated. Not true. What Oslo says or doesn't say is irrelevant.



On the contrary, the negotiated treaty between Israel and the PA defines what is relevant and what is not.  Israel, by treaty, has complete civil and military control over Area C.  That means Israel has de facto and de jure sovereign control over that territory pending a final status treaty which changes it.  

As you said, the treaty does not forbid Jewish people living in a place.  (Which is a relief because that really WOULD contravene Article 53.  As would any treaty which states that peoples of a specific ethnic group or religion are prevented from obtaining citizenship in a nation.)  

Places where Jews live and places where Arabs live ("settlements") are completely irrelevant in the entire territory in absence of a border established by a negotiated and consensual treaty agreement.  Except that one has to abide by the laws of the government which controls the area where you build.  You can't squat in Area A any more than you can squat in Area C.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Why was Palestine not established between 1948 and 1967?*

**Interesting that none of them mentioned the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence. Probably because they were never told about it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Why was Palestine not established between 1948 and 1967?*



You have repeatedly represented that the Treaty of Lausanne created the "country of Pally'land".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *=*Interesting that none of them mentioned the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence. Probably because they were never told about it.



Probably because even  Arabs didn't take that joke too seriously..


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *=*Interesting that none of them mentioned the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence. Probably because they were never told about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because even  Arabs didn't take that joke too seriously..
Click to expand...

Not really. The Palestinian state was recognized by five Arab states.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Why was Palestine not established between 1948 and 1967?*



Because having an independent state wasn't their goal to begin with.
It was to spite the Jews, and give the country to a royal from Mecca as a part of a bigger Arab empire.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *=*Interesting that none of them mentioned the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence. Probably because they were never told about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably because even  Arabs didn't take that joke too seriously..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. The Palestinian state was recognized by five Arab states.
Click to expand...


Wow, so 5 Arab states pat each other on the back saying "There's no Israel, no Israel, no Israel'
....AND closed the All Palestine govt themselves.

Quiet the comedy.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
SUB REF:  Postings → • 4184 •• → •• 4186 •• → •• 4185 ••
※→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, et al,

Yes, this is one of your twists in the interpretation of agreements.

But just to supplement our friend "Shusha's" excellent response, you will note that the Palestinians (ie through Yassar Arafat, Chairman of the PLO, recognized by the Arab world as the sole legitimate representative) never once initiated procedures under the Article XV Dispute Resolution process on the matters related to the legitimacy of the settlement issues that are to this day, still subject to the Article V Permanent Status of Negotiations.

The why of this is a matter _(refusal to participate in direct or indirect talks)_ for another time and another discussion.  Suffice it to say that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) have used the conditions for talks as a means to project external interference.  The most resent HoAP strategy has been to claim that the deadlock on the peace process was due to the US decision regarding Jerusalem.  Thus remaining issues, including Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest have not yet reached the high table.

Most everyone as heard the 2015 announcement by Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas asserted that the PA was no longer bound by the Oslo Accords as well as all subsequent agreements between the PA and Israel. 



P F Tinmore said:


> There are so many violations that it is hard to start. So let's start with Oslo and the settlements. Oslo does not forbid settlements. It merely places them as a "final status" issue. Israel interprets this to mean that settlements are legal until they are negotiated. Not true. What Oslo says or doesn't say is irrelevant. The settlements are illegal either way.
> 
> Israel is a settler colonial project. The goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Many violations are required to realize that goal.


*(COMMENT)*

The Oslo Accords were an internationally recognized and accepts a set of agreements.  So "legally" recognized and historical were these sets of agreements, that the principal parties _(Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat)_ to the agreements were Awarded a Nobel Peace Prize.

This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.   The Special Committee on Decolonization (C-24) "exclusively devoted" to the issue of decolonization, _[General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries (1960)]_, does NOT list any Middle Eastern Nation as under the purview of Resolution 1514 (XV).  This would include an association with the Israeli-Palestinian Territories in conflict.

This allegation is bogus (totally bogus).  The term "colonial" is sometimes used simply used by the layman for lack of a better word.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Why was Palestine not established between 1948 and 1967?*
> Interesting that none of them mentioned the 1948 Palestinian declaration of independence. Probably because they were never told about it.


*(COMMENT)*

The 28 September 1948 All-Palestine Government (APG) diplomatic cablegram (A/C.1/330 14 October 1948) might have been significant had it not come three months after the Israeli Declaration of Independence, if it had not attempted to claim the entirety of the territory west of the Jordan River and to which the former Mandate of Palestine applied, and if it had not been a non-participating in the conflict.  But as it was, there was no such entity involved in the Armistice Process in the first half of 1949.  The APG was a non-existent → an imaginary government, formed by the illusion of a half-dozen people.

On the matter of the "1967 Borders."  The Arab Palestinians start by defining the Border as:





The 1967 border, *which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line* along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine. A basic principle of international law is that no state may acquire territory by force. Israel has no valid claim to any part of the territory it occupied in 1967. The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over any part of the occupied State of Palestine, including East Jerusalem.​
First, they start off with the definition that the "which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line."  There are but two Armistice Agreements that are applicable to the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
✪  PERTAINING TO THE WEST BANK ••  Armistice agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel ••

Article VI  → 
9. The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties* without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines* or to claims of either Party relating thereto.

Article XII  →
2. This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, *shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved*, except as provided in paragraph 3 of this article.​✪  PERTAINING TO THE GAZA STRIP ••  Armistice Agreement between Egypt and Israel  ••

Article V   →
2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is* not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary*, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Article XII  →
2. This Agreement, having been negotiated and concluded in pursuance of the resolution of the Security Council of 16 November 1948 calling for the establishment of an Armistice in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, *shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved,* except as provided in paragraph 3 of this Article.​


​
The Peace Treaties concluded by the Israelis that dissolved the Armistice Agreements were:

•  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
•  Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •

The entire attempt by the HoAP to claim that the Armistice Arrangements established some kind of "border" is again bogus.  It is a political fallacy.  The "war" between Israel and Egypt did not end until 1979, and the permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel was established (Article II).  Similarly, the "war" between Israel and Jordan ended in 1994; and the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate (Article 3 as is shown in Annex I). 

Until the conflict was resolved _(1979 and 1994 respectively)_ the permanent boundaries could shift any number of times.  This argument on boundaries and settlements is bogus.

Finally, there is the matter of sovereignty.  Where do the HoAP maintain sovereignty?  Where have they ever maintained sovereignty?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.


The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground. And remember, both the British and the Zionists openly called it colonialism all through the Mandate period.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground.
Click to expand...


Only if you ignore one key "fact on the ground" -- which is the ORIGIN of the Jewish people in that territory.  And you are going to want to be real clear on the difference between return and "settler colonial project" now that the roles have reversed and the Arab people want to live where they once lived.  But all this is just a narrative with vague moral whining and a deliberate turning away from facts the don't appeal to your preconceived ideas.

Your claim is that Jewish people (or Israeli citizens) are prohibited from living in certain places and that your basis for this is a legal determination.  So, again, make your case.  

(Also, don't forget the other case I've asked you to defend -- which is that the Oslo Accords are void because they violate international law.  What law do they violate? Be specific.)


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only if you ignore one key "fact on the ground" -- which is the ORIGIN of the Jewish people in that territory.  And you are going to want to be real clear on the difference between return and "settler colonial project" now that the roles have reversed and the Arab people want to live where they once lived.  But all this is just a narrative with vague moral whining and a deliberate turning away from facts the don't appeal to your preconceived ideas.
> 
> Your claim is that Jewish people (or Israeli citizens) are prohibited from living in certain places and that your basis for this is a legal determination.  So, again, make your case.
> 
> (Also, don't forget the other case I've asked you to defend -- which is that the Oslo Accords are void because they violate international law.  What law do they violate? Be specific.)
Click to expand...

I'm sure you give no value to UN


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> I'm sure you give no value to UN



The UN is virulently anti-semitic.  But if you want to have a discussion about international law and certain UN resolutions, I'm game.  Don't bother to bring up General Assembly resolutions, as they are non-binding.  Other than that, feel free.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you give no value to UN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN is virulently anti-semitic.  But if you want to have a discussion about international law and certain UN resolutions, I'm game.  Don't bother to bring up General Assembly resolutions, as they are non-binding.  Other than that, feel free.
Click to expand...

The UN has recognized Israel's taking land as illegal. Yet you clame it is yours.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you give no value to UN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN is virulently anti-semitic.  But if you want to have a discussion about international law and certain UN resolutions, I'm game.  Don't bother to bring up General Assembly resolutions, as they are non-binding.  Other than that, feel free.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN has recognized Israel's taking land as illegal. Yet you clame it is yours.
Click to expand...


The UN has recognized Israel as a sovereign Nation.  Since there is no other sovereign Nation in the territory, it can only be Israel's.  There is no border or treaty or agreement to say which is Israel's and which belongs to another political entity.   Except Oslo, which grants Israel full sovereign control over Area C.  So what land does not belong to Israel that they are taking?  And what legal instrument are you using to prove that there is a defined border between that place and Israel?


----------



## Shusha

Oh, and Israel actually does not claim Area C as hers.  She claims it is disputed.  She claims she has full civil and military control over it.  Which is perfectly accurate.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

Shusha said:


> Oh, and Israel actually does not claim Area C as hers.  She claims it is disputed.  She claims she has full civil and military control over it.  Which is perfectly accurate.


No. You're wrong. But ill prove it some other time.


----------



## Shusha

Ecocertifmrl said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and Israel actually does not claim Area C as hers.  She claims it is disputed.  She claims she has full civil and military control over it.  Which is perfectly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> No. You're wrong. But ill prove it some other time.
Click to expand...


Wrong that Israel doesn't claim it?  Or wrong that she has full civil and military control over it?

Because if its the latter, don't bother, easy enough to copy and paste Oslo to prove that one true.  

Wrong that Israel doesn't claim it?  Oh there are parts of it she is GOING to claim.  There are talks in the Knesset of annexing certain blocs as recent as a few weeks ago.  

But what you are trying to show is that there is some demarcation line IN LAW which differentiates land which is under Israeli sovereignty/civil control and land which is not.  Good luck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you give no value to UN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN is virulently anti-semitic.  But if you want to have a discussion about international law and certain UN resolutions, I'm game.  Don't bother to bring up General Assembly resolutions, as they are non-binding.  Other than that, feel free.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN has recognized Israel's taking land as illegal. Yet you clame it is yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN has recognized Israel as a sovereign Nation.  Since there is no other sovereign Nation in the territory, it can only be Israel's.  There is no border or treaty or agreement to say which is Israel's and which belongs to another political entity.   Except Oslo, which grants Israel full sovereign control over Area C.  So what land does not belong to Israel that they are taking?  And what legal instrument are you using to prove that there is a defined border between that place and Israel?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> And what legal instrument are you using to prove that there is a defined border between that place and Israel?


There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.



Thank you! Now will you kindly let your fellow TPs know that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ecocertifmrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you give no value to UN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN is virulently anti-semitic.  But if you want to have a discussion about international law and certain UN resolutions, I'm game.  Don't bother to bring up General Assembly resolutions, as they are non-binding.  Other than that, feel free.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN has recognized Israel's taking land as illegal. Yet you clame it is yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN has recognized Israel as a sovereign Nation.  Since there is no other sovereign Nation in the territory, it can only be Israel's.  There is no border or treaty or agreement to say which is Israel's and which belongs to another political entity.   Except Oslo, which grants Israel full sovereign control over Area C.  So what land does not belong to Israel that they are taking?  And what legal instrument are you using to prove that there is a defined border between that place and Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what legal instrument are you using to prove that there is a defined border between that place and Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.
Click to expand...

Then I'm packing for Gaza beaches, they're beautiful this time of year,
especially when lit by Israeli electricity.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

The use of the term in these days is merely for the political purpose of exploitation and incitement.  It is used to illicit a level of sympathy from those that don't exactly understand what: colonialism" actually means.

And just because one segment of society inaccurately uses the term, does not mean you have to follow suit, using that term --- unless it is your intent to further promote an adverse propaganda effort as opposed to accuracy.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground. And remember, both the British and the Zionists openly called it colonialism all through the Mandate period.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The problem here is that the Arab Palestinians want the world to picture their territory to as being politically, militarily and economically dominated by the Israelis.  While it is true that Israel has allowed the voluntary settlement _(permanent and semi-permanent)_ of Israelis citizens into areas under the full control of Israel _(Area C)_, as set out in the Oslo II Accord.

And, these settlements are not a case of forced displacement of Israeli Citizens or a matter of expulsion; including coercive acts. [Article 7(1d) RS-ICC or Article 49 of GCIV]

What this is → is a case of the migration of a population from Israeli Sovereignty to a new territory under which Israel has full administrative, legislative and legal controls.

I realize that this is a much more difficult set of conditions than the Area Palestinian propaganda machine is used to dealing with; but no one actually thought that the Arab Palestinians would talk any view other than one that was anti-Israel.  Truth and accuracy are not a strong suit associated with the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Partially true. 



P F Tinmore said:


> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

As a general rule, a border is a demarcation between two different sovereignties.

The reason this distinction is important is that the State of Palestine is questionable.  What territory, if any, does the State of Palestine exercise full authority and power as a governing body to govern → without any interference from the outside.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Partially true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As a general rule, a border is a demarcation between two different sovereignties.
> 
> The reason this distinction is important is that the State of Palestine is questionable.  What territory, if any, does the State of Palestine exercise full authority and power as a governing body to govern → without any interference from the outside.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestine in the poster child of outside interference. It was born under occupation and has not had a minute without occupation to this day.

The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. I would take that to mean that it is the same country on both sides.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The use of the term in these days is merely for the political purpose of exploitation and incitement.  It is used to illicit a level of sympathy from those that don't exactly understand what: colonialism" actually means.
> 
> And just because one segment of society inaccurately uses the term, does not mean you have to follow suit, using that term --- unless it is your intent to further promote an adverse propaganda effort as opposed to accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground. And remember, both the British and the Zionists openly called it colonialism all through the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that the Arab Palestinians want the world to picture their territory to as being politically, militarily and economically dominated by the Israelis.  While it is true that Israel has allowed the voluntary settlement _(permanent and semi-permanent)_ of Israelis citizens into areas under the full control of Israel _(Area C)_, as set out in the Oslo II Accord.
> 
> And, these settlements are not a case of forced displacement of Israeli Citizens or a matter of expulsion; including coercive acts. [Article 7(1d) RS-ICC or Article 49 of GCIV]
> 
> What this is → is a case of the migration of a population from Israeli Sovereignty to a new territory under which Israel has full administrative, legislative and legal controls.
> 
> I realize that this is a much more difficult set of conditions than the Area Palestinian propaganda machine is used to dealing with; but no one actually thought that the Arab Palestinians would talk any view other than one that was anti-Israel.  Truth and accuracy are not a strong suit associated with the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israeli colonial settlements are planned, constructed, subsidized, supported, and protected by the state of Israel. That people "voluntarily" moving there does not absolve Israel of its responsibility.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> The use of the term in these days is merely for the political purpose of exploitation and incitement.  It is used to illicit a level of sympathy from those that don't exactly understand what: colonialism" actually means.
> 
> And just because one segment of society inaccurately uses the term, does not mean you have to follow suit, using that term --- unless it is your intent to further promote an adverse propaganda effort as opposed to accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This issue of "colonial projects" is so ridiculous that even the UN doesn't agree with such an anti-Israeli interpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> The settler colonial project is the only process that matches the facts on the ground. And remember, both the British and the Zionists openly called it colonialism all through the Mandate period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem here is that the Arab Palestinians want the world to picture their territory to as being politically, militarily and economically dominated by the Israelis.  While it is true that Israel has allowed the voluntary settlement _(permanent and semi-permanent)_ of Israelis citizens into areas under the full control of Israel _(Area C)_, as set out in the Oslo II Accord.
> 
> And, these settlements are not a case of forced displacement of Israeli Citizens or a matter of expulsion; including coercive acts. [Article 7(1d) RS-ICC or Article 49 of GCIV]
> 
> What this is → is a case of the migration of a population from Israeli Sovereignty to a new territory under which Israel has full administrative, legislative and legal controls.
> 
> I realize that this is a much more difficult set of conditions than the Area Palestinian propaganda machine is used to dealing with; but no one actually thought that the Arab Palestinians would talk any view other than one that was anti-Israel.  Truth and accuracy are not a strong suit associated with the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The use of the term in these days is merely for the political purpose of exploitation and incitement. It is used to illicit a level of sympathy from those that don't exactly understand what: colonialism" actually means.


That the process perfectly matches the description makes me believe that the description is accurate.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, that depends on whether or not you consider if the Arab Palestinians ever actually had total governmental control over; with a decision-making process separate and independently distinct from all other nations.

Question:  Does the _(so-called)_ State of Palestine claim to have:

→  possession of sovereign power?
→  supreme political authority?
→  paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration?
→  the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived? 
→  the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation?
•  _Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed_ •​
It is one of the great mysteries of the universe.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Partially true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As a general rule, a border is a demarcation between two different sovereignties.
> 
> The reason this distinction is important is that the State of Palestine is questionable.  What territory, if any, does the State of Palestine exercise full authority and power as a governing body to govern → without any interference from the outside.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine in the poster child of outside interference. It was born under occupation and has not had a minute without occupation to this day.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*



			
				Amin Maqboul • Fatah revolutionary council: said:
			
		

> The PA would agree to an extension negotiations if Israel agreed to:
> 
> announce the basis on which future talks will be held;
> 
> draw the outline of the borders of a Palestinian state within the next three months;
> 
> halt settlement construction;
> 
> withdraw Israeli troops from the West Bank’s Area C to the lines held before the Second Intifada;
> release the fourth wave of prisoners that it has until now refused to set free;
> 
> end what he called “disruptions” in Jerusalem, and open Palestinian institutions in the city.
> prisoner release.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told Israeli opposition MKs visiting him in the West Bank city of Ramallah last Wednesday that if talks were extended, he would want the first three months “devoted to a serious discussion of borders,” Haaretz reported.
> 
> 
> 
> Source:  Palestinians issue list of demands for extension of peace talks
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. I would take that to mean that it is the same country on both sides.


*(COMMENT)*

That, in fact, would NOT be a proper assumption _(for a number of reasons)_.

Israel's Peace Treaty covering that territory reads:

The boundary is delimited as follows:

Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers

Dead Sea and Salt Pans

Wadi Araba/Emek Ha’arava
The Gulf of Aqaba
You should take note that the international permanent boundary DOES NOT follow the former 1949 Armistice Line.  It should also be noted that in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank into the vacuum of Isreali effective control.  Upon seeing this, the PLO attempted to counter the move by declaring independence.

Israel has established its own limits to its sovereignty; a border _(per say)_.  On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."

Now the definition as to sovereign ground, effective control _(now Area "C")_, settlements, and borders are all disputed by the _(so-called)_ State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."


How can you have "sides" when there is no border?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank


You put this clunker in many posts.

Jordan never had sovereignty over the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK, if you say so.



P F Tinmore said:


> That the process perfectly matches the description makes me believe that the description is accurate.


*(COMMENT)*

•  Settlements ARE NOT ongoing in Arab Palestinian Controlled Areas.
•  They ARE ongoing in Areas under full Israeli control since 1967 _(a half-century ago  → two-decades BEFORE the PLO independence and → four-decades BEFORE it being accorded non-member observer State status in the United Nations)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, if you say so.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That the process perfectly matches the description makes me believe that the description is accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  Settlements ARE NOT ongoing in Arab Palestinian Controlled Areas.
> •  They ARE ongoing in Areas under full Israeli control since 1967 _(a half-century ago  → two-decades BEFORE the PLO independence and → four-decades BEFORE it being accorded non-member observer State status in the United Nations)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so? 

BTW, there are no Palestinian controlled areas.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't play stupid.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> 
> 
> How can you have "sides" when there is no border?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The border is where Israel has determined it's sovereignty ends.  It is protected and marked.  That is a THE difference between *what is real* and *what is Arab Palestinian fantasy*.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Don't play stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> 
> 
> How can you have "sides" when there is no border?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The border is where Israel has determined it's sovereignty ends.  It is protected and marked.  That is a THE difference between *what is real* and *what is Arab Palestinian fantasy*.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A line of goons with guns does not define an international border.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You just what to believe this.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> You put this clunker in many posts.
> 
> Jordan never had sovereignty over the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*



*•  Jordan Formally Annexes the West Bank  •*
Richard Cavendish describes the events leading up to Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, on April 24th, 1950.
*Richard Cavendish* | Published in History Today Volume 50 Issue 4 April 2000

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, that depends on whether or not you consider if the Arab Palestinians ever actually had total governmental control over; with a decision-making process separate and independently distinct from all other nations.
> 
> Question:  Does the _(so-called)_ State of Palestine claim to have:
> 
> →  possession of sovereign power?
> →  supreme political authority?
> →  paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration?
> →  the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived?
> →  the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation?
> •  _Featuring Black's Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed_ •​
> It is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Partially true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no borders around the West Bank or Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As a general rule, a border is a demarcation between two different sovereignties.
> 
> The reason this distinction is important is that the State of Palestine is questionable.  What territory, if any, does the State of Palestine exercise full authority and power as a governing body to govern → without any interference from the outside.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine in the poster child of outside interference. It was born under occupation and has not had a minute without occupation to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amin Maqboul • Fatah revolutionary council: said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The PA would agree to an extension negotiations if Israel agreed to:
> 
> announce the basis on which future talks will be held;
> 
> draw the outline of the borders of a Palestinian state within the next three months;
> 
> halt settlement construction;
> 
> withdraw Israeli troops from the West Bank’s Area C to the lines held before the Second Intifada;
> release the fourth wave of prisoners that it has until now refused to set free;
> 
> end what he called “disruptions” in Jerusalem, and open Palestinian institutions in the city.
> prisoner release.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told Israeli opposition MKs visiting him in the West Bank city of Ramallah last Wednesday that if talks were extended, he would want the first three months “devoted to a serious discussion of borders,” Haaretz reported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Source:  Palestinians issue list of demands for extension of peace talks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The armistice lines around the West Bank and Gaza were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. I would take that to mean that it is the same country on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That, in fact, would NOT be a proper assumption _(for a number of reasons)_.
> 
> Israel's Peace Treaty covering that territory reads:
> 
> The boundary is delimited as follows:
> 
> Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers
> 
> Dead Sea and Salt Pans
> 
> Wadi Araba/Emek Ha’arava
> The Gulf of Aqaba
> You should take note that the international permanent boundary DOES NOT follow the former 1949 Armistice Line.  It should also be noted that in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank into the vacuum of Isreali effective control.  Upon seeing this, the PLO attempted to counter the move by declaring independence.
> 
> Israel has established its own limits to its sovereignty; a border _(per say)_.  On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> Now the definition as to sovereign ground, effective control _(now Area "C")_, settlements, and borders are all disputed by the _(so-called)_ State of Palestine.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinians have the right: (According to the UN.) To self determination without external interference. To independence and sovereignty. To territorial integrity.

The violation of those rights by foreign powers do not negate those rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You just what to believe this.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> You put this clunker in many posts.
> 
> Jordan never had sovereignty over the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> *•  Jordan Formally Annexes the West Bank  •*
> Richard Cavendish describes the events leading up to Jordan's annexation of the West Bank, on April 24th, 1950.
> *Richard Cavendish* | Published in History Today Volume 50 Issue 4 April 2000
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Jordan ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967. Jordan's annexation was never formally recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom.[16][17]

West Bank - Wikipedia


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> in July 1988, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon its sovereignty of the West Bank
> 
> 
> 
> You put this clunker in many posts.
> 
> Jordan never had sovereignty over the West Bank. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


It’s funny how we never heard of “ Occupation “ until after 1967 . I guess “ International Law” didn’t exist then


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Don't play stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> 
> 
> How can you have "sides" when there is no border?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The border is where Israel has determined it's sovereignty ends.  It is protected and marked.  That is a THE difference between *what is real* and *what is Arab Palestinian fantasy*.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A line of goons with guns does not define an international border.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Don't play stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> 
> 
> How can you have "sides" when there is no border?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The border is where Israel has determined it's sovereignty ends.  It is protected and marked.  That is a THE difference between *what is real* and *what is Arab Palestinian fantasy*.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A line of goons with guns does not define an international border.
Click to expand...


Since you say there are no


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On one side there is western side it is sovereign Israeli territory • and on the other side _(West Bank side)_ there is "effective control."
> 
> 
> 
> How can you have "sides" when there is no border?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult "cultural proclivities"


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well. that did not have an actual real-world impact.  For more than three decades the citizens could travel on Jordanian Passports. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Jordan ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967. Jordan's annexation was never formally recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom.[16][17]


*(COMMENT)*

As I have said many times, without regard to what the UN or the US might have preferred, Jordan DID annex the Old City → East Jerusalem → and the West Bank.   Just as true, the Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties with these very same select territories, leaving these very same select territories → exclusively in the effective control of the Israelis.

NOW, there is this "legal fallacy" _(an error in reasoning on the actual reality)_ wherein the official stance of → much of the international community DOES NOT RECOGNIZE Israeli sovereignty over territories known as the  →  Old City → East Jerusalem → and the West Bank → with the common intent that such annexations have no legal validity no matter where they occur.  

But the actual reality is plain for all to see.   



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians have the right: (According to the UN.) To self-determination without external interference. To independence and sovereignty. To territorial integrity.
> 
> The violation of those rights by foreign powers do not negate those rights.


*(COMMENT)*

 Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.  A negative right, on the other hand, only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.  If we are free and equal by nature, and if we believe in negative rights, any positive rights would have to be grounded in consensual arrangements.

NEGATIVE RIGHTS

✪  If "sovereignty (etc)"  is a negative right, then the "International community" has an obligation to keep Israelis from preventing Arab Palestinians from acquiring "sovereignty." 

✪  If "personal wealth"  is a negative right, then the "government" has an obligation to keep "COMPETITORS" from preventing ME from acquiring "personal wealth."  I am allowed to work as hard and as much as I want in an pursuit of wealth; free from interference and discrimination.​
POSTIVE RIGHTS

✪  If "sovereignty (etc)" is a positive right, then the "government" has an obligation to provide it for the Arab Palestinian.  The "government" must take the territory from one sovereign control and give it to "Arab Palestinian."

✪  If "personal wealth" is a positive right, then the "government" has an obligation to provide the wealth for the Arab Palestinian.  The "government" must take the "wealth" from other people and give it to "Arab Palestinian." (Redistribution of Wealth)​
In the situation under "negative rights," there is a competitive nature and work involved.  But in the situation of  "positive right," there is no value assigned.  It is the "On A Silver Platter" Rule.

√ The Difference between Postive Rights and Negative Rights. 
√  Negative vs. Positive Rights.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well. that did not have an actual real-world impact.  For more than three decades the citizens could travel on Jordanian Passports.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967. Jordan's annexation was never formally recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom.[16][17]
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I have said many times, without regard to what the UN or the US might have preferred, Jordan DID annex the Old City → East Jerusalem → and the West Bank.   Just as true, the Hashemite Kingdom cut all ties with these very same select territories, leaving these very same select territories → exclusively in the effective control of the Israelis.
> 
> NOW, there is this "legal fallacy" _(an error in reasoning on the actual reality)_ wherein the official stance of → much of the international community DOES NOT RECOGNIZE Israeli sovereignty over territories known as the  →  Old City → East Jerusalem → and the West Bank → with the common intent that such annexations have no legal validity no matter where they occur.
> 
> But the actual reality is plain for all to see.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians have the right: (According to the UN.) To self-determination without external interference. To independence and sovereignty. To territorial integrity.
> 
> The violation of those rights by foreign powers do not negate those rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.  A negative right, on the other hand, only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.  If we are free and equal by nature, and if we believe in negative rights, any positive rights would have to be grounded in consensual arrangements.
> 
> NEGATIVE RIGHTS
> 
> ✪  If "sovereignty (etc)"  is a negative right, then the "International community" has an obligation to keep Israelis from preventing Arab Palestinians from acquiring "sovereignty."
> 
> ✪  If "personal wealth"  is a negative right, then the "government" has an obligation to keep "COMPETITORS" from preventing ME from acquiring "personal wealth."  I am allowed to work as hard and as much as I want in an pursuit of wealth; free from interference and discrimination.​
> POSTIVE RIGHTS
> 
> ✪  If "sovereignty (etc)" is a positive right, then the "government" has an obligation to provide it for the Arab Palestinian.  The "government" must take the territory from one sovereign control and give it to "Arab Palestinian."
> 
> ✪  If "personal wealth" is a positive right, then the "government" has an obligation to provide the wealth for the Arab Palestinian.  The "government" must take the "wealth" from other people and give it to "Arab Palestinian." (Redistribution of Wealth)​
> In the situation under "negative rights," there is a competitive nature and work involved.  But in the situation of  "positive right," there is no value assigned.  It is the "On A Silver Platter" Rule.
> 
> √ The Difference between Postive Rights and Negative Rights.
> √  Negative vs. Positive Rights.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ✪ If "sovereignty (etc)" is a negative right, then the "International community" has an obligation to keep Israelis from preventing Arab Palestinians from acquiring "sovereignty."


The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.

18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*

*A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.



Then why all the fuss upon the mere mention of cuts to the welfare fraud payments?

Palestinians condemn Trump 'blackmail'

*Palestinians condemn Trump threat to cut aid as 'blackmail'*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why all the fuss upon the mere mention of cuts to the welfare fraud payments?
> 
> Palestinians condemn Trump 'blackmail'
> 
> *Palestinians condemn Trump threat to cut aid as 'blackmail'*
Click to expand...

Different issue.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why all the fuss upon the mere mention of cuts to the welfare fraud payments?
> 
> Palestinians condemn Trump 'blackmail'
> 
> *Palestinians condemn Trump threat to cut aid as 'blackmail'*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different issue.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why all the fuss upon the mere mention of cuts to the welfare fraud payments?
> 
> Palestinians condemn Trump 'blackmail'
> 
> *Palestinians condemn Trump threat to cut aid as 'blackmail'*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Aid addresses the symptom not the problem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why all the fuss upon the mere mention of cuts to the welfare fraud payments?
> 
> Palestinians condemn Trump 'blackmail'
> 
> *Palestinians condemn Trump threat to cut aid as 'blackmail'*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Different issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Aid addresses the symptom not the problem.
Click to expand...


Islamic terrorism that continues with the benefit of a dedicated welfare fraud syndicate is the symptom of a much wider problem.


----------



## RoccoR

lignedRE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.  

Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.


P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.

They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.

I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



They will have to do a new edition.

K is for Kite.  It makes us so happy to Kill forests and farms and animals and Jews.


----------



## Hollie

"D" is for Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WOW, what a load of deflection!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
Click to expand...


You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
Click to expand...

What was wrong with the resolution?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
Click to expand...

It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are not asking anyone to "give" them anything.
> 
> 18.  Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*
> 
> *A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights*​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
> Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.
Click to expand...

So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> lignedRE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OH give me a break...  That is all they do is make demands and establish requirements at others expense.  Hell, what to you think the associate purpose of the "March of Return" by thousands and thousands of people that had never held the characteristic having been outside the country of his former habitual residence.  Most of the marchers are below the age of fifty.   In fact, if it wasn't for the demand that Arab Palestinians be given a special status as a unique refugee, the vast majority of which would not be eligible for refugee status.
> 
> Most of the Arab Palestinians acquired a new nationality (State of Palestine), and fell under the protection of the country of their new nationality.
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinian  ARE NOT people under subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights.  On the contrary, the Arab Palestinian intentionally attempt to create an atmosphere of turbulent violence; and people the incite disturbances for the sake of feeding violent frenzies as a means of inducing effective and credible political and economic blackmail.  They are the people that set the conditions for Peace Initiatives to fail and then blame the Israelis for the false start.
> 
> They are a people that use donor nation funding to stipends to terrorists, and shifting money to provide direct support to the activities of Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  And then they have the nerve to tell the US that our reduction in discretionary donations and foreign aid are creating a humanitarian crisis.
> 
> I know _(everybody knows)_ that Israel does not have totally clean hands _(hell the US does not have totally clean hands)_; but, the hands of the Israelis _(and the US as their Alled Power)_ are pristine in comparison to the blood-soaked hands of the Hostile Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
> Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?
Click to expand...

UN was not in power to give or take anything from Israel.
It made no actual difference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, what a load of deflection!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
> Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN was not in power to give or take anything from Israel.
> It made no actual difference.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the UN cannot legitimize or delegitimize any state. It can only give political, not legal, recognition.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
> Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN was not in power to give or take anything from Israel.
> It made no actual difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the UN cannot legitimize or delegitimize any state. It can only give political, not legal, recognition.
Click to expand...


Indeed, Israel did not need the UN to legitimize or delegitimize its establishment of sovereign territory.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi



*Vetoed! What's wrong with the UN security council – and how it could do better*

*Is it still functional? Is it still fair?*
Seventy years on, hardly anyone claims the security council is representative. There are no African or Latin American states among the permanent members. Nor is India, despite its vast population and increasingly powerful economy. It still produces large numbers of resolutions and manages 16 peacekeeping missions, but on Syria, the most lethal and destabilising conflict in the world today, it is paralysed by disagreement and vetoes. So is it becoming obsolete?

*Diluting the veto*
Another possible remedy involves reining in the use of the veto. In recent times, east-west antagonism has brought back paralysis when it comes to major crises. Over the past 10 years, *Russia has used its veto on 10 occasions*, largely to avoid scrutiny over its actions in Ukraine – or to protect allies, such as the Syrian regime, from UN pressure. *China has used its veto six times *but never on its own – always in tandem with Russia. *The US has issued vetoes three times *since 2005, each time to defend Israel from censure.

Vetoed! What's wrong with the UN security council – and how it could do better

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone is saying that the UN is nonfunctional, it's pretty clear which block uses the most vetoes.


----------



## Hollie

Stateworthy folks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You lost the moment You brought up a UN resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> What was wrong with the resolution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the UN, all they do is push hot air and block vote.
> Resolutions have nothing to do with reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> UN was not in power to give or take anything from Israel.
> It made no actual difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the UN cannot legitimize or delegitimize any state. It can only give political, not legal, recognition.
Click to expand...


Political recognition is based on identity politics, identity is a biased construct not relevant to law.
And legal transfer of sovereignty had already occurred decades before the UN was created.

A politician can go and claim the moon rises out of his bottom...he can also find a newspaper to advertise it - *this is the UN.
*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I think "rylah" is correct (Posting #4242).

Equally important is that



P F Tinmore said:


> What was wrong with the resolution?


*(COMMENT)*

Most Resolutions are impossible to enforce without an action plan for penalties.  If the Hostile Arab Palestinians perform an unlawful --- how should it be addressed; what action taken?



P F Tinmore said:


> So when the UN recognized Israel it was just a bunch of hot air?


*(COMMENT)*

There are two very broad categories of Resolutions:  1) Binding and 2) Non-Binding.  And these can be tricky.  In Your Posting #4229 → you cited two unenforceable and non-binding resolutions.

•  A/RES/15/1514 (1960) → Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries

•  A/RES/37/43 (1982) → Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
While A/RES/15/1514 (1960) is applicable to the UK, US, France and New Zealand, the last of the Colonial Powers holding Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs) still remaining, there are none in the Middle East (See:  Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization)

Yes many anti-Israeli propagandist try to apply the concepts of  A/RES/15/1514 the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as you can see for yourself _(no interpretation required)_, Israel is NOT listed by C-24, *responsible for monitoring the implementation of the Declaration* _(General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)_, as a colonial power holding no NSGTs.  See the list:  NSGTs List by C-24.

A/RES/37/43 (1982) Is just a frivolous table thumping.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> If the Hostile Arab Palestinians perform an unlawful --- how should it be addressed; what action taken?


It is interesting that with all of the accusations waged against the Palestinians, the UN has done nothing.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Hostile Arab Palestinians perform an unlawful --- how should it be addressed; what action taken?
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that with all of the accusations waged against the Palestinians, the UN has done nothing.
Click to expand...


Just like they did nothing about Egypt’s aggression in 67 or their impotence about the situation in Syria


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as you can see for yourself _(no interpretation required)_, Israel is NOT listed by C-24, *responsible for monitoring the implementation of the Declaration* _(General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960)_,


Perhaps it was a lack of due diligence in their investigations. Or that Israel was not listed for political reasons.

It does not change the facts though.



P F Tinmore said:


> 18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples *still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,* notably the peoples of Africa and the *Palestinian people;*



So then, why would the UN say this? Did they just pull it out of their ass for the hell of it?


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **


they are mud people


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> So then, why would the UN say this? Did they just pull it out of their ass for the hell of it?



Exactly!
More specifically as a tool to deflect from the war crimes, and violations of human rights committed  by the  specific member states who compose these resolutions.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Now, this is a most interesting observation.  And it actually goes to evidence → as to why it is essential that there be an independent, distinct, and separate autonomous Jewish National Home.

While most of the UN Resolutions, are less than usefully than toilet paper, a number of conventions and protocols have emerged in the face of Arab Palestinian violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the Hostile Arab Palestinians perform an unlawful → how should it be addressed; what action taken?
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that with all of the accusations waged against the Palestinians, the UN has done nothing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The UN, for all the paper-pushed against Israel, and all the allegations and complaints made against it, absolutely no tangible economic, military or political move has been made against Israel; save by the Arab League under the color of law.   In fact, this is not all that dissimilar to the reaction and support given by the world governments, the overall international community and national leaders of influence for the plight of the Jews in the years after the Great War and leading up to 1950. 

It is important to note _(in the 21st Century)_ that more than half of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts were heavily influenced, if not a direct result of, by Arab Palestinian attacks.  Included are:

*1. 1963 Convention on Offences and Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft*
*2. 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft *
*3. 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation*
*4. 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation, supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Civil Aviation*
*6. 2010 Protocol Supplementary to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft*
​
I mention these first few because it has only been recently (2016) that several international schools were lobbied to remove certain textbooks because they did not support Arab Palestinian Terrorism.

* Arabs upset that Palestinian suicide bombings and airline hijackings are called "terrorism" in textbook *
From Albawaba:

A private school in Doha has found itself in trouble after using textbooks that appear to feature Palestinians as their choice examples of “terrorism” - using the actions of Palestinian groups like the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) PLO and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) to discuss concepts like “hijacking” and “suicide vests”.

The debacle began when pictures of the textbook used at the International School of Choueifat in Doha were shared on social media websites, highlighting the controversial chapter in question

The Qatari Ministry of Education was quick to respond, with Doha News reporting that the textbook has been removed from the school.
Many saw the textbook as unfair propaganda against the Palestinian people, taking to Twitter to react to the news and ask their government to look for similar instances in other schools.
According to their website, the International School of Choueifat has schools in a number of Middle Eastern countries, but whether this scandal will cause the school to change its international policies is yet to be seen. As of now Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and Jordan have forced the international school to withdraw the textbook from their teaching curriculum.  Here are the parts of the book that caused such angst.





_“Palestinian terrorists took over several airlines in 1970, including two American, _
_one Swiss and one British. They targeted American planes because they felt _
_the USA always helped out Israel, a country that occupies land that the _
_Palestinians claim is their own._
_They wanted their own country – Palestine – and wanted land that Israel _
_occupies. Terrorist acts continue to this day in the Middle East.”_​​A number of countries in the Middle East, Persian Gulf and Arabian Seas nations still openly support terrorism, just as it was pointed out here in this case.

Why do I mention this?  _(RHETORICAL)_  Because it is important to note that the preponderance of the Regional Mentality thinks that it is appropriate to hijack commercial and private aircraft as a means to an end.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> _“Palestinian terrorists took over several airlines in 1970, including two American, _
> _one Swiss and one British. They targeted American planes because they felt _
> _the USA always helped out Israel, a country that occupies land that the _
> _Palestinians claim is their own._
> _They wanted their own country – Palestine – and wanted land that Israel _
> _occupies. Terrorist acts continue to this day in the Middle East.”_



It is never mentioned, of course, that the number one rule the Palestinians had was to not hurt anyone. And they didn't. All passengers and crew were released unharmed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _“Palestinian terrorists took over several airlines in 1970, including two American, _
> _one Swiss and one British. They targeted American planes because they felt _
> _the USA always helped out Israel, a country that occupies land that the _
> _Palestinians claim is their own._
> _They wanted their own country – Palestine – and wanted land that Israel _
> _occupies. Terrorist acts continue to this day in the Middle East.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is never mentioned, of course, that the number one rule the Palestinians had was to not hurt anyone. And they didn't. All passengers and crew were released unharmed.
Click to expand...


You might want to mention Leon Klinghoffer or the Munich Olympians. 

It is not at all surprising or disturbing that you excuse the most brutal killings done by your islamic terrorist heroes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for crying out laud...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _“Palestinian terrorists took over several airlines in 1970, including two American, _
> _one Swiss and one British. They targeted American planes because they felt _
> _the USA always helped out Israel, a country that occupies land that the _
> _Palestinians claim is their own._
> They wanted their own country – Palestine – and wanted land that Israel occupies
> _. Terrorist acts continue to this day in the Middle East.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is never mentioned, of course, that the number one rule the Palestinians had was to not hurt anyone. And they didn't. All passengers and crew were released unharmed.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I thought that I would select a few examples of Palestinian Hijackings that were not so lucky.  All of these aircraft hijackings have something in common:


They were neither a US Flag Carrier - or - an Israeli Flag Carrier.
All of them were international terrorist attacks.

All of them involved fatalities inflicted by the terrorists.

*•  Switzerland (1970)*
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) blew up a Swiss airliner just after it took off from Zurich (February 21, 1970), killing all 47 people on board.

*•  Tunisia (1974)*
Abu Nidal (Sabri al-Banna) operatives hijacked a British Airlines DC-10 (November 23) flight from London. They seized the plane at Dubai and murdered a German passenger.

*•  Somalia (1977)*
Four Palestinian terrorists hijack German Lufthansa Flight 181 (October 13) and eventually killed the plane's pilot.

*•  Egypt (1985)*
Three Palestinian Abu Nidal Organization operatives hijacked Egypt Air Flight 648 from Athens to Cairo (November 23, 1985) there were 60 people killed.​
We can always give examples of failed Palestinian terrorist attacks that were successfully resolved without casualties.  That is not the point.

Even if every terrorist is killed in every terrorist attempt, the fear that you might be hijacked and killed on your next travel experience is always present.  Oddly enough, the safest airline to fly is _El Al_ 

 .

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *• Egypt (1985)*
> Three Palestinian Abu Nidal Organization operatives hijacked Egypt Air Flight 648 from Athens to Cairo (November 23, 1985) there were 60 people killed.


The storming of the aircraft killed 54 of the remaining 87 passengers, as well as two crew members and one hijacker.

the flight was hijacked by the terrorist organization Abu Nidal.

EgyptAir Flight 648 - Wikipedia

Abu Nidal was born in Jaffa, on the Mediterranean coast of what was then the British Mandate of Palestine. His father, Hajj Khalil al-Banna, owned 6,000 acres (24 km2) of orange groves situated between Jaffa and Majdal, today Ashkelon in Israel.[15] The family lived in luxury in a three-storey stone house near the beach, later used as an Israeli military court.

Just before Jaffa was conquered by Israeli troops in April 1948, the family fled to their house near Majdal, but the Jewish militias arrived there too, and they had to flee again. This time they went to the Bureij refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, then under Egyptian control. Melman writes that the family spent nine months living in tents, dependent on UNRWA for an allowance of oil, rice and potatoes.

Abu Nidal - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _“Palestinian terrorists took over several airlines in 1970, including two American, _
> _one Swiss and one British. They targeted American planes because they felt _
> _the USA always helped out Israel, a country that occupies land that the _
> _Palestinians claim is their own._
> _They wanted their own country – Palestine – and wanted land that Israel _
> _occupies. Terrorist acts continue to this day in the Middle East.”_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is never mentioned, of course, that the number one rule the Palestinians had was to not hurt anyone. And they didn't. All passengers and crew were released unharmed.
Click to expand...


You didn’t realize your comment was a total fraud?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult Festival


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Pal’istan festival


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Newsmakers: Gaza: life on the strip*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*When the Palestinians at the UN teach Nikki Haley she will never crush Palestinian existance*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*10 Years of the Palestine Festival of Literature*

**


----------



## Hollie

Sunni/Salafi bending and scraping before their Shia masters in Iran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian who shocked the world*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult Festival


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

2018 Death Cult Festival of gee-had


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

12 Islamic Terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Brain dead in the Death Cult.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Days of Mo' worshippers.. Dragging the world back into the 7th century.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Brain dead in the Death Cult.


So, what is Israel doing to solve this problem? They have had a few months to think about it.

Oh, that's right. Thinking is beyond their mental capacity.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brain dead in the Death Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve this problem? They have had a few months to think about it.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Thinking is beyond their mental capacity.
Click to expand...


You have dumped that same, pointless cut and paste nonsense into multiple threads.


----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.

Islamics have entered the No gee-had Zone.


ISRAEL THWARTS MAJOR ISLAMIC JIHAD MISSILE ATTACK AGAINST NAVAL VESSELS

Israel thwarts major Islamic Jihad missile attack against naval vessels







Shin Bet and IDF foiled the plot, which would use one boat as a decoy and two others to attack and board an Israeli navy vessel in order to kill and capture the sailors.

Security forces said on Wednesday they thwarted a potential missile attack by Islamic Jihad in Gaza against its naval forces that also included a plan to kidnap IDF soldiers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brain dead in the Death Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve this problem? They have had a few months to think about it.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Thinking is beyond their mental capacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have dumped that same, pointless cut and paste nonsense into multiple threads.
Click to expand...

Oh really, what is their solution?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



I didn't watch the video, but is he teaching the child how to burn tires?  Discussing the importance of tire burning as resistance against Jewish self-determination?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yeah, if people were being murdered just because they are Christian, I'd be praying for a better life too.  Free Gaza from Hamas.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Oh really, what is their solution?



The solution is to try to contain the violence so that no Israeli is harmed until the people of Gaza either start trying to achieve a better life including peace, or until the violence gets so bad that Israel has to use a higher level of force.  There is nothing else Israel can do until there is a shift of thinking from the Gazans.

The solution from the Gazan side is simple -- stop violently attacking Israel.  Easy peesy.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brain dead in the Death Cult.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what is Israel doing to solve this problem? They have had a few months to think about it.
> 
> Oh, that's right. Thinking is beyond their mental capacity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have dumped that same, pointless cut and paste nonsense into multiple threads.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really, what is their solution?
Click to expand...


*Saudi Arabia: Qatar must stop supporting Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood*
*Saudi FM says Gulf state is undermining the PA and Egypt, must 'act like a normal country' and decide which direction it wants to go*

Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir said Tuesday that Qatar must stop supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and urged the Gulf state, facing regional isolation, to change its policies.
Al-Jubeir claimed that by supporting Hamas and the Muslim brotherhood Qatar was undermining the Palestinian Authority and Egypt, Reuters reported.
Qatar must “change their policies” and stop supporting “extremist groups,” Adel al-Jubeir said in Paris, a day after his nation and its allies cut off ties with the Gulf state


Leverage the situation to cut the snake from the head.


----------



## Taz

Can you post more pictures of bombed out Pal camps? Those are my favorites!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't watch the video, but is he teaching the child how to burn tires?  Discussing the importance of tire burning as resistance against Jewish self-determination?
Click to expand...

They are changing tires on a race car.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really, what is their solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The solution is to try to contain the violence so that no Israeli is harmed until the people of Gaza either start trying to achieve a better life including peace, or until the violence gets so bad that Israel has to use a higher level of force.  There is nothing else Israel can do until there is a shift of thinking from the Gazans.
> 
> The solution from the Gazan side is simple -- stop violently attacking Israel.  Easy peesy.
Click to expand...

I rest my case.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, if people were being murdered just because they are Christian, I'd be praying for a better life too.  Free Gaza from Hamas.
Click to expand...

One guy ten years ago. This doesn't look like a systemic problem.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, if people were being murdered just because they are Christian, I'd be praying for a better life too.  Free Gaza from Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One guy ten years ago. This doesn't look like a systemic problem.
Click to expand...


Except that nothing has changed. Islamic fascism is as virulent today as it was decades and centuries ago. 

Do a search with the term “dhimmitude” and let us know what you find.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> I rest my case.



That seems to happens when you can’t find a YouTube video.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, if people were being murdered just because they are Christian, I'd be praying for a better life too.  Free Gaza from Hamas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One guy ten years ago. This doesn't look like a systemic problem.
Click to expand...


So, what was the point of dropping that video about Christians in Gaza?  We already all know that some Christians still remain in Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really, what is their solution?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The solution is to try to contain the violence so that no Israeli is harmed until the people of Gaza either start trying to achieve a better life including peace, or until the violence gets so bad that Israel has to use a higher level of force.  There is nothing else Israel can do until there is a shift of thinking from the Gazans.
> 
> The solution from the Gazan side is simple -- stop violently attacking Israel.  Easy peesy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I rest my case.
Click to expand...


What "case"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh give me a break.  Inane propaganda leaving out the 2500 rockets and mortars launched at Israel from the Gaza strip in 2012.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Is This Where the Third Intifada Will Start?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine Tensions: Shujaiya attack in 2014 left at least 72 dead*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel-Palestine Tensions: Shujaiya attack in 2014 left at least 72 dead*



They weren’t killed, they were “glorious martyrs” for Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Youth at Birzeit Shfiting Toward Hamas*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Youth at Birzeit Shfiting Toward Hamas*



Gaza needs more yutes for martyrdom.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Is This Where the Third Intifada Will Start?



I thought it started at your keyboard where you spend the entirety of your semi-conscious waking hours cutting and pasting YouTube videos.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Such are the wages of gee-had. 

Send in a check request to Hamas. They're paying a flat fee out of petty cash.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*AHED (episode 4a). Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Gaza Tribal Dignitary on Hamas TV: We Shall Liberate Our Land with Martyrs, Women and Children.*

**


Oh, I don't know. I'm always creeped out when these bearded loons talk about what they're going to do with young girls.


----------



## RoccoR

※→  P F Tinmore, et al,




P F Tinmore said:


> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*


*(OBSERVATIONS)*

ARTICLE XII
 Arrangements for Security and Public Order

5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,

*(COMMENT)*

I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?

They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".  

The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?
> 
> They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.
Click to expand...


If they were protesting* 'land stealing'* they would press charges, but they don't because the land was never theirs.

When You* "protest" *by violently disrupting public order it's a security hazard, both Arab and Jewish drivers get injured by their violence.

Blocking *the main road* downhill is the usual target and attraction of the young in Nabi Saleh - the elders encourage them to target it on a regular basis to provoke a response from the police.

The *Nabi Salh settlement* itself, before Israel, had only 5 houses and never reached beyond the 0.5 km radius that it occupies today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".
> 
> The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity


Not really. They could be Hindu settlers and they would still be settlers. Jewish has nothing to do with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> If they were protesting* 'land stealing'* they would press charges,


Press charges in Israel's kangaroo courts.

Now *that* is funny.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".
> 
> The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. They could be Hindu settlers and they would still be settlers. Jewish has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...


There are no other people, except Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians, living in the disputed areas, so your argument is conjecture.

But will I will cede the point -- the definition of "settler" is "people with an ethnic identity which is not Arab" (which in context means that they are Jewish).  

Why is it permissible for a nation-in-waiting to restrict residency based on ethnic identity?


----------



## Shusha

Why not call the Jewish people living in the disputed areas (Area C) permanent residents, same as Palestinians who live in the disputed areas are called?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they were protesting* 'land stealing'* they would press charges,
> 
> 
> 
> Press charges in Israel's kangaroo courts.
> 
> Now *that* is funny.
Click to expand...


Go pull someone else's leg.
Whatever court, they choose not to press charges but send kids to target cars on the main road.
In the same manner they could claim the US flag on the moon is "steeling land".

As usual running like scared ducks from proving Your own claims, what does it tell us?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".
> 
> The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. They could be Hindu settlers and they would still be settlers. Jewish has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...


Palestinian lexicon:

*'Palestinian' *- exclusively Arabs
*"Yahud"* (Jew in Arabic) - translated as "settler".

The western wing of Pallywood uses this language to misinform and hide the most evident hate speech. Exposing this exemplifies why Palestinian Jews fought for independence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?
> 
> They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.



The problem of course, is your (and Arab Palestinians) continued conflation of issues of sovereignty and issues of private land ownership when you talk about "stealing land". 

Of course, this is entirely deliberate so you can continue to call the entire territory of "Palestine" (excluding Jordan which is ignored) "stolen land".

The premise is that there can be no such thing as "Israeli land".


----------



## rylah

Our chief Palestinian propagandist P F Tinmore ran away from the opportunity to present any evidence...
I'm shocked  NOT!

Team P is a bunch of scared ducks.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".
> 
> The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. They could be Hindu settlers and they would still be settlers. Jewish has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian lexicon:
> 
> *'Palestinian' *- exclusively Arabs
> *"Yahud"* (Jew in Arabic) - translated as "settler".
> 
> The western wing of Pallywood uses this language to misinform and hide the most evident hate speech. Exposing this exemplifies why Palestinian Jews fought for independence.
Click to expand...



Its the hypocrisy of demanding an ethnically homogeneous space for yourself while concurrently insisting that the other have an ethnically diverse and inclusive space.  You can't claim to be against ethnic cleansing and other-free spaces for others while demanding same for yourself.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Terminology of occupation: "SETTLER"*
> 
> 
> 
> *(OBSERVATIONS)*
> 
> ARTICLE XII
> Arrangements for Security and Public Order
> 
> 5. For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank - the settlements in Area C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez settlement areas, as well as the other settlements in the Gaza Strip,
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I notice that the Arab Palestinians and the Pro-Palestinians American block the road and then come-out and say the Israelis start the confrontation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity or Israeli citizenship living in the disputed areas.  People of Arab ethnicity or Palestinian citizenship living in the disputed areas are called "permanent residents".
> 
> The former has a distinctly negative connotation, while the latter does not.  The use of these terms should be standardized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the term "settlers" applies solely to people of Jewish ethnicity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. They could be Hindu settlers and they would still be settlers. Jewish has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian lexicon:
> 
> *'Palestinian' *- exclusively Arabs
> *"Yahud"* (Jew in Arabic) - translated as "settler".
> 
> The western wing of Pallywood uses this language to misinform and hide the most evident hate speech. Exposing this exemplifies why Palestinian Jews fought for independence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its the hypocrisy of demanding an ethnically homogeneous space for yourself while concurrently insisting that the other have an ethnically diverse and inclusive space.  You can't claim to be against ethnic cleansing and other-free spaces for others while demanding same for yourself.
Click to expand...


Haneen Zoabi, an Israeli Arab politician once said -"We demand a Palestinian state for Arabs, and another Arab state WITH Jews".

Was Kahane right? I'm still not convinced, but he didn't demand Iraq separate into 2 Jewish states, he demanded only one - in Judea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?
> 
> They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem of course, is your (and Arab Palestinians) continued conflation of issues of sovereignty and issues of private land ownership when you talk about "stealing land".
> 
> Of course, this is entirely deliberate so you can continue to call the entire territory of "Palestine" (excluding Jordan which is ignored) "stolen land".
> 
> The premise is that there can be no such thing as "Israeli land".
Click to expand...

Israel has never had a defined territory. There is no evidence that it has any land.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?
> 
> They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem of course, is your (and Arab Palestinians) continued conflation of issues of sovereignty and issues of private land ownership when you talk about "stealing land".
> 
> Of course, this is entirely deliberate so you can continue to call the entire territory of "Palestine" (excluding Jordan which is ignored) "stolen land".
> 
> The premise is that there can be no such thing as "Israeli land".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has never had a defined territory. There is no evidence that it has any land.
Click to expand...


Odd. Given that Israel is a sovereign nation with defined borders and Palestine is not.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does stealing land and shooting those who protest have to do with security and public order?
> 
> They were not blocking any road. They were on village land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem of course, is your (and Arab Palestinians) continued conflation of issues of sovereignty and issues of private land ownership when you talk about "stealing land".
> 
> Of course, this is entirely deliberate so you can continue to call the entire territory of "Palestine" (excluding Jordan which is ignored) "stolen land".
> 
> The premise is that there can be no such thing as "Israeli land".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has never had a defined territory. There is no evidence that it has any land.
Click to expand...



And thank you for proving my point. That the Arab Palestinian premise is that Israel does not and can not have ANY sovereign territory.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Why not call the Jewish people living in the disputed areas (Area C) permanent residents, same as Palestinians who live in the disputed areas are called?



Because if the original meanings of terms were to be used, Arab demands would be shuttered by their history of colonizing the land.

If You're caught with the pants down, point and laugh pretending someone has an open fly.


----------



## RoccoR

RE  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, as usual, there is a bit of misinformation here, and a lot of misinterpretation.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has never had a defined territory. There is no evidence that it has any land.


*(COMMENT)*

Just to be clear, in broad strokes, the keys to the delimitation of international boundaries are:

*•  Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 →
*
*Article II*
The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
•  *The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994* →
Article 3 - *International Boundary*

1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.​
• *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General*  →
*II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 *(S/2000/460)

Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...” and that “the United Nations will then identify physically, on the ground, those portions of the line necessary or relevant to confirming the withdrawal of Israeli forces”.

 Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.​
•  On 14 December 1981, Israel passed the Golan Heights Law  →

*Reference*



Military situation in the Syrian Civil War as of May 22, 2018.
 Controlled by Syrian Arab Republic
  Controlled by North Syria Federation (SDF)
  Controlled by the Syrian opposition and Ahrar al-Sham
Controlled by Turkey and TFSA
  Controlled by the Islamic State (ISIL)
  Controlled by Tahrir al-Sham (al-Nusra)
_From Wikipedia,_​
History & Overview
Golani Infantry Brigade

Geography & Geology
Maps of the Golan

Historic Photographs
*Israeli Law*

Golan Referendum Bill (November 2010)
Comments by Prime Minister Rabin on Withdrawal on the Golan Heights (September 1994)
Golan Heights Law (December 1981)
Syria-Israel Disengagement Agreement (May 1974)
The description that Israel "has never had a defined territory" and that there is "no evidence that it has any land" is just frivolous political language to influence an audience that just never had the information presented to them.  But well before the UN _Decided_ "to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations," (A/RES/67/19 • 4 December 2012) Israel had made enormous strides in resolving, through peaceful means, border issues.  Syria, Is changing quite frequently.  And it is very difficvalt to say, a year from now, which one of the seven major factions will be in territorial control of the territory bordering the Israeli Golan Heights area.

The Arab Palestinians have failed to enter into any serious discussion (in good faith) on the matter of borders.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, as usual, there is a bit of misinformation here, and a lot of misinterpretation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has never had a defined territory. There is no evidence that it has any land.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just to be clear, in broad strokes, the keys to the delimitation of international boundaries are:
> 
> *•  Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 →
> *
> *Article II*
> The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> •  *The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994* →
> Article 3 - *International Boundary*
> 
> 1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
> 2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.​
> • *Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General*  →
> *II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 *(S/2000/460)
> 
> Paragraph 11 of this report states that “for the practical purpose of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, the United Nations needs to identify a line to be adopted conforming to the internationally recognized boundaries of Lebanon ...” and that “the United Nations will then identify physically, on the ground, those portions of the line necessary or relevant to confirming the withdrawal of Israeli forces”.
> 
> Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”.​
> •  On 14 December 1981, Israel passed the Golan Heights Law  →
> 
> *Reference*
> 
> 
> 
> Military situation in the Syrian Civil War as of May 22, 2018.
> Controlled by Syrian Arab Republic
> Controlled by North Syria Federation (SDF)
> Controlled by the Syrian opposition and Ahrar al-Sham
> Controlled by Turkey and TFSA
> Controlled by the Islamic State (ISIL)
> Controlled by Tahrir al-Sham (al-Nusra)
> _From Wikipedia,_​
> History & Overview
> Golani Infantry Brigade
> 
> Geography & Geology
> Maps of the Golan
> 
> Historic Photographs
> *Israeli Law*
> 
> Golan Referendum Bill (November 2010)
> Comments by Prime Minister Rabin on Withdrawal on the Golan Heights (September 1994)
> Golan Heights Law (December 1981)
> Syria-Israel Disengagement Agreement (May 1974)
> The description that Israel "has never had a defined territory" and that there is "no evidence that it has any land" is just frivolous political language to influence an audience that just never had the information presented to them.  But well before the UN _Decided_ "to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations," (A/RES/67/19 • 4 December 2012) Israel had made enormous strides in resolving, through peaceful means, border issues.  Syria, Is changing quite frequently.  And it is very difficvalt to say, a year from now, which one of the seven major factions will be in territorial control of the territory bordering the Israeli Golan Heights area.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have failed to enter into any serious discussion (in good faith) on the matter of borders.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The description that Israel "has never had a defined territory" and that there is "no evidence that it has any land" is just frivolous political language to influence an audience that just never had the information presented to them.


Do you mean like Israeli say so?

You tend to forget that in two 1949 UN Armistice agreements (with Egypt and Jordan) that territory was called Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened after 1949 that transferred that territory to Israel?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel signed both agreements.*



Yes, yes she did sign both agreements.  Why?  Because she was a Party to the Agreements.  Do you know what that means?  It means her Government had the ability to enter into agreements other States -- one of the four key markers of sovereignty. 

The two sovereign powers in the territory (called Palestine) at the time, who had the ability to BE Parties to Agreements were Israel and Jordan.  There was no other third option.  The fact that the territory was then called Palestine does not grant sovereignty to some non-existent entity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel signed both agreements.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes she did sign both agreements.  Why?  Because she was a Party to the Agreements.  Do you know what that means?  It means her Government had the ability to enter into agreements other States -- one of the four key markers of sovereignty.
> 
> The two sovereign powers in the territory (called Palestine) at the time, who had the ability to BE Parties to Agreements were Israel and Jordan.  There was no other third option.  The fact that the territory was then called Palestine does not grant sovereignty to some non-existent entity.
Click to expand...

That does not answer my question, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why is Israel jailing Palestinian minors? *


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel jailing Palestinian minors? *



*Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*

Apparently because they incite to murder and suicide attacks.
Incitement to murder is a criminal offense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ahed Tamimi and the plight of Palestinian children*



The Arab-Moslem Death Cult ideology defines the "*plight of Arab-Moslem children"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

* A Dialogue on Israel and Palestine with Tariq Ali and Norman Finkelstein*

**


----------



## Hollie

*The dialogue is over.*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel signed both agreements.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes she did sign both agreements.  Why?  Because she was a Party to the Agreements.  Do you know what that means?  It means her Government had the ability to enter into agreements other States -- one of the four key markers of sovereignty.
> 
> The two sovereign powers in the territory (called Palestine) at the time, who had the ability to BE Parties to Agreements were Israel and Jordan.  There was no other third option.  The fact that the territory was then called Palestine does not grant sovereignty to some non-existent entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not answer my question, of course.
Click to expand...


The question is nonsensical.  



> What happened after 1949 that transferred that territory to Israel?



The territory had already been "transferred to Israel" (though that framing of the issue is as nonsensical as the question you asked).  The PROOF that Israel already had sovereignty over the territory is the fact that she signed the Armistice Agreements as a Party to the Conflict.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel jailing Palestinian minors? *



How many countries in the world do not jail minors who have committed crimes?  If there is one, I haven't been able to find out.

Ask yourself which country is the ONLY country in the world to sentence minors to life without parole?  (Banned by the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel signed both agreements.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes she did sign both agreements.  Why?  Because she was a Party to the Agreements.  Do you know what that means?  It means her Government had the ability to enter into agreements other States -- one of the four key markers of sovereignty.
> 
> The two sovereign powers in the territory (called Palestine) at the time, who had the ability to BE Parties to Agreements were Israel and Jordan.  There was no other third option.  The fact that the territory was then called Palestine does not grant sovereignty to some non-existent entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not answer my question, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The question is nonsensical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened after 1949 that transferred that territory to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The territory had already been "transferred to Israel" (though that framing of the issue is as nonsensical as the question you asked).  The PROOF that Israel already had sovereignty over the territory is the fact that she signed the Armistice Agreements as a Party to the Conflict.
Click to expand...

Still ducking the question.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel signed both agreements.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, yes she did sign both agreements.  Why?  Because she was a Party to the Agreements.  Do you know what that means?  It means her Government had the ability to enter into agreements other States -- one of the four key markers of sovereignty.
> 
> The two sovereign powers in the territory (called Palestine) at the time, who had the ability to BE Parties to Agreements were Israel and Jordan.  There was no other third option.  The fact that the territory was then called Palestine does not grant sovereignty to some non-existent entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not answer my question, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The question is nonsensical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened after 1949 that transferred that territory to Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The territory had already been "transferred to Israel" (though that framing of the issue is as nonsensical as the question you asked).  The PROOF that Israel already had sovereignty over the territory is the fact that she signed the Armistice Agreements as a Party to the Conflict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still ducking the question.
Click to expand...



No, I answered your question quite definitively -- the territory was already under Israel's sovereignty in 1949, there was no need to "transfer it to Israel" after 1949.  You just don't like the answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why is Israel jailing Palestinian minors? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many countries in the world do not jail minors who have committed crimes?  If there is one, I haven't been able to find out.
> 
> Ask yourself which country is the ONLY country in the world to sentence minors to life without parole?  (Banned by the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child).
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> How many countries in the world do not jail minors who have committed crimes?


What crimes?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What crimes?



Minors are imprisoned globally for a wide variety of crimes.  Apparently, in some countries its illegal to get raped.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *The dialogue is over.*


Israel shooting itself in the foot again because they are stupid. About 1/3 of the PA's budget goes to protecting Israel. A policy that is hugely unpopular in Palestine.

What will happen if the PA's money gets cut?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What crimes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minors are imprisoned globally for a wide variety of crimes.  Apparently, in some countries its illegal to get raped.
Click to expand...

Keep dancing.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What crimes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minors are imprisoned globally for a wide variety of crimes.  Apparently, in some countries its illegal to get raped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep dancing.
Click to expand...



Sigh.  The place you always retreat to when you can't have a discussion with adults.  What I wouldn't give to raise the bar on this board.  I miss my old debate board where at least Team P would try to hold relevant and intelligent discussions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What crimes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minors are imprisoned globally for a wide variety of crimes.  Apparently, in some countries its illegal to get raped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep dancing.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh.  The place you always retreat to when you can't have a discussion with adults.  What I wouldn't give to raise the bar on this board.  I miss my old debate board where at least Team P would try to hold relevant and intelligent discussions.
Click to expand...

Like you ducking the same question post after post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The dialogue is over.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting itself in the foot again because they are stupid. About 1/3 of the PA's budget goes to protecting Israel. A policy that is hugely unpopular in Palestine.
> 
> What will happen if the PA's money gets cut?
Click to expand...


You're a bit confused. The joint security program shared by Israel and the PA is not specifically designed toward "protecting Israel" but to help maintain law and order and keep a short leash on the otherwise lawless mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. That "cooperation" effectively showers the Abbas'istan enclave with welfare dollars to employ Arabs-Moslems at menial and no-show jobs. "Money for nothin'". Somebody cue up Mark Knopfler, please. 

You're in a bit of a panic because you know both of the competing mini-caliphates of Gaza'istan and Abbas'istan survive on the good graces of the kuffar funded welfare fraud known as UNRWA. As the PA welfare recipients see their welfare checks shrink, Abbas is going to find himself on the endangered species list.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The dialogue is over.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting itself in the foot again because they are stupid. About 1/3 of the PA's budget goes to protecting Israel. A policy that is hugely unpopular in Palestine.
> 
> What will happen if the PA's money gets cut?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a bit confused. The joint security program shared by Israel and the PA is not specifically designed toward "protecting Israel" but to help maintain law and order and keep a short leash on the otherwise lawless mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. That "cooperation" effectively showers the Abbas'istan enclave with welfare dollars to employ Arabs-Moslems at menial and no-show jobs. "Money for nothin'". Somebody cue up Mark Knopfler, please.
> 
> You're in a bit of a panic because you know both of the competing mini-caliphates of Gaza'istan and Abbas'istan survive on the good graces of the kuffar funded welfare fraud known as UNRWA. As the PA welfare recipients see their welfare checks shrink, Abbas is going to find himself on the endangered species list.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The dialogue is over.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shooting itself in the foot again because they are stupid. About 1/3 of the PA's budget goes to protecting Israel. A policy that is hugely unpopular in Palestine.
> 
> What will happen if the PA's money gets cut?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a bit confused. The joint security program shared by Israel and the PA is not specifically designed toward "protecting Israel" but to help maintain law and order and keep a short leash on the otherwise lawless mini-caliphate of Abbas'istan. That "cooperation" effectively showers the Abbas'istan enclave with welfare dollars to employ Arabs-Moslems at menial and no-show jobs. "Money for nothin'". Somebody cue up Mark Knopfler, please.
> 
> You're in a bit of a panic because you know both of the competing mini-caliphates of Gaza'istan and Abbas'istan survive on the good graces of the kuffar funded welfare fraud known as UNRWA. As the PA welfare recipients see their welfare checks shrink, Abbas is going to find himself on the endangered species list.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You won't be surprised to discover that I expected you would dump YouTube videos as opposed to forming coherent sentences.

Islamic dictators are a dime-a-dozen across muhammedan'istan. Abbas placated his minions with welfare money. As long as the welfare checks keep coming for phony jobs, Arabs-Moslems will accept the status quo. However, Abbas is going to find the rats gnawing st his heels when the checks stop.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



That was quite the cowardly retreat.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*BBC News Life as a teenager on the Gaza Strip*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'We Teach Life, Sir': Music amid Mayhem in Gaza*

**


----------



## Hollie

*We teach gee-had


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Life in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh, come now. It’s OK to admit that the Great Gee-had of Failure was another ill-considered and humiliating defeat for Arabs-Moslems. 

Islamic terrorism carries consequences. Cheer up. While you carry the humiliation of another lost war of aggression, you contributed nothing but a lot of Pom Pom flailing from the sidelines.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Cult of Islamism.

7th century - 21st century


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr.Laila Al-Marayati at All Saints Church, Pasadena*


----------



## Hollie

Dr. Crank at the All Gee-had Mosque of The Mentally Crippled.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,


*FOR PROPAGANDA PURPOSES ONLY*


 
Also See:  The Ultimate Collection of Logical Fallacies:  Appeal to Emotion​


P F Tinmore said:


> Poster with no attributions.


*(COMMENT)*

This is the presentation of an unsubstantiated allegation; almost leaving an impression that these teens were specifically targeted.

It does not identify the source of the collage, what action the collage was made to represent, or when the collage was made.

As the story goes, as  told by - Ibraheem Abu Mustafa, Freelance Photogropher, published by REUTERS

Gaza: Israeli warplanes Saturday shelled an empty building to the west of Gaza city, killing two Palestinian minors and injuring at least 10 other passersby, said sources.

Israeli warplanes fired at least three missiles targeting an empty building to the west of Gaza city, killing two Palestinian minors aged 15 and 16. They were identified as Ameer al-Nemreh, and Loay Kuhail, respectively.

At least 10 other passersby were injured in the strike, Palestinian WAFA news agency reported.

They were all transferred to a medical complex to the west of the city for medical treatment. No further information regarding their health status was provided.

Israeli warplanes further targeted multiple locations and agricultural lands in Gaza, causing damage and destruction to residents properties.​
You will notice that the story quotes WAFA which is the official news agency to the PLO and Palestinian Authority.  It is actually a story as told by street urchins.  The actual picture taken by Mustafa was:

​​


 ​ 

Not quite the same story at all.  Presumably, there was a military target in the facility.  We simply do not know.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> *FOR PROPAGANDA PURPOSES ONLY*
> View attachment 206221
> Also See:  The Ultimate Collection of Logical Fallacies:  Appeal to Emotion​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poster with no attributions.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is the presentation of an unsubstantiated allegation; almost leaving an impression that these teens were specifically targeted.
> 
> It does not identify the source of the collage, what action the collage was made to represent, or when the collage was made.
> 
> As the story goes, as  told by - Ibraheem Abu Mustafa, Freelance Photogropher, published by REUTERS
> 
> Gaza: Israeli warplanes Saturday shelled an empty building to the west of Gaza city, killing two Palestinian minors and injuring at least 10 other passersby, said sources.
> 
> Israeli warplanes fired at least three missiles targeting an empty building to the west of Gaza city, killing two Palestinian minors aged 15 and 16. They were identified as Ameer al-Nemreh, and Loay Kuhail, respectively.
> 
> At least 10 other passersby were injured in the strike, Palestinian WAFA news agency reported.
> 
> They were all transferred to a medical complex to the west of the city for medical treatment. No further information regarding their health status was provided.
> 
> Israeli warplanes further targeted multiple locations and agricultural lands in Gaza, causing damage and destruction to residents properties.​
> You will notice that the story quotes WAFA which is the official news agency to the PLO and Palestinian Authority.  It is actually a story as told by street urchins.  The actual picture taken by Mustafa was:
> 
> View attachment 206224 ​
> 
> Not quite the same story at all.  Presumably, there was a military target in the facility.  We simply do not know.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Presumably, there was a military target in the facility.


Standard Israeli bullshit talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's "zombie peace process" and the "2-state solution" myth in Palestine, with Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Hollie

Muhammedan ambassador.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*In conversation with Palestinian activist Janna Jihad*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *In conversation with Palestinian activist Janna Jihad*



Her parents called her *"Heavenly Jihad"*  an she pretending to  speak for "peace"?

It's an insult to human intelligence.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Not Nabi Saleh.


----------



## rylah

*US Senate dramatically scales down definition of Palestinian ‘refugees’*
*The UN says there are 5 million Palestinian refugees. The US Senate says that's more than 160 times too high*

WASHINGTON — The US Senate approved language Thursday night that could shrink the number of Palestinian refugees recognized by the United States from 5 million to about 30,000.

If the US Senate Appropriations Committee has its way, this may significantly change. On Thursday, the committee approved language that would distinguish between Palestinian refugees alive in 1948 and their descendants. The Kirk amendment to the foreign operations appropriations bill  requires the US State Department to report within a year how many people receive aid from UNRWA who were themselves displaced and how many of them are descendants of those people. The former number, estimated at around 30,000, would be used as the basis for formulating US policy on Palestinian refugee issues.

US Senate dramatically scales down definition of Palestinian ‘refugees’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Your Tamimi princess is an "Erdogan girl":








In a bizarre act of propaganda, while urging the nation to be ready for mobilization, the Turkish leader invites a small girl in military uniform onstage and assured the sobbing child she would receive state honors if killed.


----------



## rylah

*State Department Hiding ‘Game Changer’ Report on Myth of Palestinian Refugees*
*Classified report could bust myth that millions of refugees need UNRWA*

The State Department is hiding a classified report on Palestinian refugees that insiders say could be a game changer in how the United States approaches the situation and allocates millions in taxpayer funds to a key United Nations agency, according to multiple sources briefed on the situation.

As the United States moves forward with a decision to slash funding to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the agency responsible for providing education and support to some five million Palestinian refugees, officials on Capitol Hill and elsewhere have been pressuring the State Department to declassify a report that is believed to show the actual number of refugees is far fewer than the U.N. claims.

Multiple sources with knowledge of the situation told the _Washington Free Beacon_ that the State Department first classified the report under the Obama administration and still refuses to provide U.S. officials with the information despite laws mandating its release.






State Department Hiding 'Game Changer' Report on Myth of Palestinian Refugees


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian teen Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Reconstituted Hitler Youth Movement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Banksy documentary: Welcome to the Banksy art hotel in Bethlehem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Siege, censorship, subversion: International assault on Palestine - with Ali Abunimah *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abby Martin & Joe Rogan on Israel's Massacre at Gaza Border*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Finkelstein: Hamas Isn't The Threat That Israel Claims*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abby Martin & Joe Rogan on Israel's Massacre at Gaza Border*



Was there a "massacre?"

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Finkelstein: Hamas Isn't The Threat That Israel Claims*



Islamic terrorists need an occasional beat down as a form of obedience training.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*



Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘The Palestinians Have Not Forgotten, They Have Not Gone Away’*

**


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
Click to expand...


No answer yet?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘The Palestinians Have Not Forgotten, They Have Not Gone Away’*
> 
> **



Palestinian Jews have not forgotten either :


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
Click to expand...

Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
Click to expand...


Palestine was an Arab nation?
Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
Click to expand...

It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
Click to expand...


Of course it was necessary to be Arab-Moslem. The kuffar are reviled by Arabs-Moslems. Non-Islamics have always been viewed by Arabs-Moslems as having less rights / value. It’s all written out in explicit language in your Korans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it was necessary to be Arab-Moslem. The kuffar are reviled by Arabs-Moslems. Non-Islamics have always been viewed by Arabs-Moslems as having less rights / value. It’s all written out in explicit language in your Korans.
Click to expand...

Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.



Someone hasn't read Palestine's Basic Law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it was necessary to be Arab-Moslem. The kuffar are reviled by Arabs-Moslems. Non-Islamics have always been viewed by Arabs-Moslems as having less rights / value. It’s all written out in explicit language in your Korans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.
Click to expand...


You will want to sidestep and deny but dhimmitude was explicitly directed toward those of the non-Islamist politico-religious ideology.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you want East Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem as your capital?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
Click to expand...


Then we're back to my initial question:
So Jerusalem has never been a capital of an Arab state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone hasn't read Palestine's Basic Law.
Click to expand...

I have.

What is your point?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. When was Jerusalem ever a capital of an Arab state or nation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we're back to my initial question:
> So Jerusalem has never been a capital of an Arab state?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No answer yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem has been in Palestine since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was an Arab nation?
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the nation of the people. It was not necessary to be Arab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we're back to my initial question:
> So Jerusalem has never been a capital of an Arab state?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Q. If Jerusalem was never a capital of any Arab nation, then why should Arab claims to any part of Jerusalem as a capital be taken seriously?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone hasn't read Palestine's Basic Law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


They have Islam as the official religion, and Sharia Law as the basis of all legislation
That's after stating that Palestinians are an Arab nation, with "Arab Unity" as an objective.

Q. What's "Arab Unity" if not a term of (fascist) imperialism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone hasn't read Palestine's Basic Law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have.
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have Islam as the official religion, and Sharia Law as the basis of all legislation
> That's after stating that Palestinians are an Arab nation, with "Arab Unity" as an objective.
> 
> Q. What's "Arab Unity" if not a term of (fascist) imperialism?
Click to expand...

*Title Two – Public Rights and Liberties*
*Article 9*
Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without distinction based upon race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability.

*Article 10*

Basic human rights and liberties shall be protected and respected.
The Palestinian National Authority shall work without delay to become a party to regional and international declarations and covenants that protect human rights.

2003 Amended Basic Law


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Race, religion, etc. were not mentioned. Everyone was included without distinction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone hasn't read Palestine's Basic Law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have.
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have Islam as the official religion, and Sharia Law as the basis of all legislation
> That's after stating that Palestinians are an Arab nation, with "Arab Unity" as an objective.
> 
> Q. What's "Arab Unity" if not a term of (fascist) imperialism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Title Two – Public Rights and Liberties*
> *Article 9*
> Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without distinction based upon race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability.
> 
> *Article 10*
> 
> Basic human rights and liberties shall be protected and respected.
> The Palestinian National Authority shall work without delay to become a party to regional and international declarations and covenants that protect human rights.
> 
> 2003 Amended Basic Law
Click to expand...

Your link:

*Article 1*
Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation.  Arab unity is an objective that the Palestinian people shall work to achieve.

*Article 4*

Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect for the sanctity of all other divine religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic_Shari’a_ shall be a principal source of legislation.


Q. What is "Arab Unity"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Or, one gets proactive in resisting the islamic gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli arrest of female columnist ‘aims to undermine free speech’
*
Palestinian journalists, writers, rights groups and political factions have condemned Israeli arrest of female Palestinian columnist in West Bank Lama Khater.*





*
It was midnight when a large number of Israeli occupation forces broke the door and raided the house of the Palestinian journalist in the occupied West Bank.

Cameras recorded everything this time. The most emotional moment was the last one before she left her house and went with the Israeli occupation forces with handcuffs in her hands.

She was seen giving a very sad farewell to her two-year-old child while surrounded by heavily armed Israeli occupation forces.

Lama Khater was the fourth Palestinian woman to be arrested by the Israeli occupation in 45 days.*

Israeli arrest of female columnist ‘aims to undermine free speech’*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Chomsky on how Hamas policies are more conducive to peace than the U.S.'s or Israel's*

**


----------



## Hollie

Peaceful islamic terrorist gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation speak out*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Poet Aja-Monet on what not to do when there's a foot on someone's neck*

**


----------



## Hollie

*The hoosegow for Islamic terrorist incitement

Gee-had denied.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*That ship has sailed*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *That ship has sailed*


*International Aid & the Palestinians: Supporting Israel's Occupation?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*The muhammedan Death Cult Crisis*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: How would you integrate Israelis into a binational state?*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*How can poetry express Palestinian resistance?*

**


----------



## Hollie

*How can islamic misfits express gee-had?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat Destroys False Rhetoric On Palestine & Hamas Claim Of 50 Dead Members On CNN*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic gurgling about the sudden demands for virgins.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Killing Gaza’istan. Islamist retrogrades riot.


*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians: How would you integrate Israelis into a binational state?*
> 
> **




She hesitated stated the Israelis and Jews should live together but stated the State will be “ for the Palestinians “.  When asked his to live together she mentioned stopping checkpoints but didn’t mention the decision to  prevent Jews from praying at the Western Wall.  Every time you post I get a good laugh. It’s better then watching TV.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, the War started after Hamas captured and killed three Israeli boys.   You “ forgot” to mention that.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> *Killing Gaza’istan. Islamist retrogrades riot.
> 
> 
> *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ending colonialism in Palestine*

Why Palestine Matters: The Struggle to End Colonialism
edited by Noushin Darya Framke and Susan Landau, Israel/Palestine Mission Network of the Presbyterian Church (USA) (2018)

Why Palestine Matters: The Struggle to End Colonialism, a new study guide distributed by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network of the Presbyterian Church (USA), represents a significant breakthrough for faith-based groups acting as advocates for Palestinian rights. The guide pinpoints settler colonialism as the underlying basis for Israeli apartheid while also advocating vigorously for an intersectional approach to unify struggles for human rights.

Why does a focus on colonialism matter? For one, it undermines the seemingly “common sense” narrative of Israel as the savior of the Jewish people following the Holocaust during World War II and instead places the largely Western support for the fledgling state in the context of empire.

The history of settler-colonial societies illustrates a pattern of controlling the land and expelling or eliminating the indigenous population. This study guide shows how the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians that began in 1948 and continues today is part of that pattern. That the original imprimatur for the state of Israel came from British colonialism’s Balfour Declaration of 1917 is hardly coincidental.

Ending colonialism in Palestine


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The history of settler-colonial societies illustrates a pattern of controlling the land and expelling or eliminating the indigenous population.



Right?!  And after a few hundred years you can even pretend that the indigenous peoples didn't exist or no longer exist or aren't "really" what they say they are.  Even when they are right there in front of you.  Sooner or later, if you work the story long enough and hard enough, the colonizers even become an indigenous peoples.  Because they have been there for a really really really long time.  And built a shrine over someone else's holy places and historical places.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Concerted attempts to silence criticism of Israel in the U.S” Maria LaHood*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> * Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*



She will be back in jail at some point. After all, she has keyboard warriors like you urging on her anti-social behavior.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She will be back in jail at some point. After all, she has keyboard warriors like you urging on her anti-social behavior.
Click to expand...

Sure, that's what it is like under occupation. But the world is watching.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She will be back in jail at some point. After all, she has keyboard warriors like you urging on her anti-social behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, that's what it is like under occupation. But the world is watching.
Click to expand...


Sure, that’s what it’s like under Islamic fascism. One of her first stops after being released from prison was to visit the grave of Yassir Arafat, among those most successful exploiters of Arabs-Moslems. 

So yes, the world is watching. The world is watching and snickering as your heroes are the worst examples of misfits and retrogrades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She will be back in jail at some point. After all, she has keyboard warriors like you urging on her anti-social behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, that's what it is like under occupation. But the world is watching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, that’s what it’s like under Islamic fascism. One of her first stops after being released from prison was to visit the grave of Yassir Arafat, among those most successful exploiters of Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> So yes, the world is watching. The world is watching and snickering as your heroes are the worst examples of misfits and retrogrades.
Click to expand...

Is slime all you got?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Palestinian teen activist Ahed Tamimi freed from jail*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She will be back in jail at some point. After all, she has keyboard warriors like you urging on her anti-social behavior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, that's what it is like under occupation. But the world is watching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, that’s what it’s like under Islamic fascism. One of her first stops after being released from prison was to visit the grave of Yassir Arafat, among those most successful exploiters of Arabs-Moslems.
> 
> So yes, the world is watching. The world is watching and snickering as your heroes are the worst examples of misfits and retrogrades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is slime all you got?
Click to expand...


All slogans all you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale. 

Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins


University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:


----------



## Hollie

“Slap Teen” visiting the shrine to Yassir “I robbed you blind, suckas” Arafat.

It’s so cute that Islamics worship the very retrogrades who so ruthlessly exploit them.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:


"Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
It's true. What is PMW bitching about?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
Click to expand...


It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”. 

Such buffoonery.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
Click to expand...

I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Resist, My People, Resist Them by Dareen Tatour*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*BREAKING! Dareen Tatour sentenced to five months in prison over poem*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
Click to expand...


I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.

You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *BREAKING! Dareen Tatour sentenced to five months in prison over poem*



Incitement has consequences, at least in the modern, relevant first world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli court convicts Arab poet of incitement*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.
> 
> You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.
Click to expand...

Still got nothing but Israeli BS talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are good reasons why Arabs-Moslems rank so abysmally low on the human development scale.
> 
> Quiz Israel out of existence - and win $50-$100! - PMW Bulletins
> 
> 
> University students were tested on their knowledge of "Palestine's" borders and their inclination to deny the existence of Israel in a PA TV quiz in 2010. Correct answers presented "Palestine" and Syria as bordering Lebanon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.
> 
> You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing but Israeli BS talking points.
Click to expand...


No need to get angry and emotive. When you're unable to support your bogus claims, that's a function of your making claims that don't withstand scrutiny. 

Here's a hint: know the facts before littering threads with your cut and paste YouTube videos.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



She will be free, after serving time for conviction of her crime.

Have you considered doing something more than littering threads with your goofy cut and paste YouTube videos?

How about you declare you're going on a hunger strike? 

OR,

maybe another dozen YouTube videos? 

The Tinmore gee-had of none.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Two countries, Syria and Palestine" share borders with Lebanon, in PA education​
> It's true. What is PMW bitching about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.
> 
> You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing but Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to get angry and emotive. When you're unable to support your bogus claims, that's a function of your making claims that don't withstand scrutiny.
> 
> Here's a hint: know the facts before littering threads with your cut and paste YouTube videos.
Click to expand...

I am not angry and it is always you making claims you can't prove.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s just concerning that you people have this inability to resolve the order of things. You're perfectly fine with the charade of an invented people with an invented national identity living in an invented “country”.
> 
> Such buffoonery.
> 
> 
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.
> 
> You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing but Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to get angry and emotive. When you're unable to support your bogus claims, that's a function of your making claims that don't withstand scrutiny.
> 
> Here's a hint: know the facts before littering threads with your cut and paste YouTube videos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry and it is always you making claims you can't prove.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I notice you did not refute my post. Just your usual slime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed there was nothing to refute in the YouTube video. You made a nonsensical reference to some "country of Pally'land". There is no such place.
> 
> You can promote all your usual buffoonery, but inventing "countries" that exist only in your imagination is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still got nothing but Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to get angry and emotive. When you're unable to support your bogus claims, that's a function of your making claims that don't withstand scrutiny.
> 
> Here's a hint: know the facts before littering threads with your cut and paste YouTube videos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry and it is always you making claims you can't prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...



No link, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How does that address your failure to provide a link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that address your failure to provide a link?
Click to expand...

It doesn't. You are the one who cannot back up what you say.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that address your failure to provide a link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't. You are the one who cannot back up what you say.
Click to expand...


Example?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Just something for Israel to keep in mind.

1,763,143 have signed. And support for Ahed Tamimi is still coming in from ever country in the world.

Help free my daughter


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Just something for Israel to keep in mind.
> 
> 1,763,143 have signed. And support for Ahed Tamimi is still coming in from ever country in the world.
> 
> Help free my daughter



Just something else to keep in mind. There are obvious consequences to raising children in an environment that glorifies hate and self destruction.

UN report: Widespread child abuse in Palestinian Authority


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Last Earth*
*A Palestinian Story*
Ramzy Baroud







Stretching over decades, encompassing bombing campaigns, ceasefires and mass exoduses, _The Last Earth_ tells the story of modern Palestine through the memories of those who have survived it. 

Palestinian history has long faced obstacles, first from Orientalist readings of the Middle East, and then by attempts from Zionists to replace Palestinian historical narratives. _The Last Earth_ challenges previous takes on Palestinian history, unearthing the commonalities within the Palestinian narrative, separated through political divisions, geographical barriers and walls, factionalism, military occupation, and exile. Through testimonies and accounts, we come to understand the complexities and contradictions of memory and the telling of history in the midst of conflict. 

As well as offering a history of the conflict and the region, _The Last Earth_ also acts as a reclamation of history for the Palestinian people, allowing them to be active participants in shaping the present and the future.

The Last Earth


----------



## Hollie

*The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees: A Case Study in International Legal Fraud*

The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees:  A Case Study in International Legal Fraud







What if you discovered that the overwhelming majority of Palestinian refugees never actually left Palestine in 1948, that they just evacuated from those _portions_ of Mandate Palestine which constituted the frontline in what was promised to be a war of extermination of the Jewish population that lived within the confines of the war zone?

What if you found out that, in the vast majority of cases, those refugees did _not_scatter across the world or settle hundreds of miles from the land in which they were born? What if the truth was that in many cases, masses of those alleged refugees relocated _tens_ of miles from their original homes, living not amidst any foreign majority population, but rather in territories where _they_constituted the majority and yet refused to exercise – or to demand – any kind of sovereignty for themselves?

What you are about to learn is the chronicle of an international legal fraud that has been perpetrated over the course of seven decades. The main financier and facilitator of this fraud is the institution known as the United Nations, specifically conducted through its member nations and through the offices of one of its constituent bodies, known as the _United Nations Relief and Works Agency_ (UNRWA).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees: A Case Study in International Legal Fraud*
> 
> The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees:  A Case Study in International Legal Fraud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if you discovered that the overwhelming majority of Palestinian refugees never actually left Palestine in 1948, that they just evacuated from those _portions_ of Mandate Palestine which constituted the frontline in what was promised to be a war of extermination of the Jewish population that lived within the confines of the war zone?
> 
> What if you found out that, in the vast majority of cases, those refugees did _not_scatter across the world or settle hundreds of miles from the land in which they were born? What if the truth was that in many cases, masses of those alleged refugees relocated _tens_ of miles from their original homes, living not amidst any foreign majority population, but rather in territories where _they_constituted the majority and yet refused to exercise – or to demand – any kind of sovereignty for themselves?
> 
> What you are about to learn is the chronicle of an international legal fraud that has been perpetrated over the course of seven decades. The main financier and facilitator of this fraud is the institution known as the United Nations, specifically conducted through its member nations and through the offices of one of its constituent bodies, known as the _United Nations Relief and Works Agency_ (UNRWA).


11. _Resolves_ that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948​
If someone's home was in Jaffa, Gaza is not his home.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees: A Case Study in International Legal Fraud*
> 
> The United Nations and the Palestinian Refugees:  A Case Study in International Legal Fraud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if you discovered that the overwhelming majority of Palestinian refugees never actually left Palestine in 1948, that they just evacuated from those _portions_ of Mandate Palestine which constituted the frontline in what was promised to be a war of extermination of the Jewish population that lived within the confines of the war zone?
> 
> What if you found out that, in the vast majority of cases, those refugees did _not_scatter across the world or settle hundreds of miles from the land in which they were born? What if the truth was that in many cases, masses of those alleged refugees relocated _tens_ of miles from their original homes, living not amidst any foreign majority population, but rather in territories where _they_constituted the majority and yet refused to exercise – or to demand – any kind of sovereignty for themselves?
> 
> What you are about to learn is the chronicle of an international legal fraud that has been perpetrated over the course of seven decades. The main financier and facilitator of this fraud is the institution known as the United Nations, specifically conducted through its member nations and through the offices of one of its constituent bodies, known as the _United Nations Relief and Works Agency_ (UNRWA).
> 
> 
> 
> 11. _Resolves_ that the refugees wishing to *return to their homes *and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
> 
> A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948​
> If someone's home was in Jaffa, Gaza is not his home.
Click to expand...


General Assembly opinions.

Your usual cut and paste YouTube videos are similarly useless.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Gee-had denied.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'*

Tamimi, who rose to global prominence as a child living under military occupation, said she and other Palestinians in her all-female prison unit would sit for hours and learn legal texts. “We managed to transform the jail into a school,” she said.

*



*

After gaining worldwide attention, the Tamimi family say their daughter has been offered scholarships to study at a university abroad but that she is still deciding.

Her international recognition infuriated the Israeli government, Ahed said. “They are afraid of the truth. If they were not wrong, they would not be afraid of the truth. The truth scares them. And I managed to deliver this truth to the world. And of course, they’re afraid how far I reached. They always fear the truth, they are the occupier, and we are under occupation.”

Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'*
> 
> Tamimi, who rose to global prominence as a child living under military occupation, said she and other Palestinians in her all-female prison unit would sit for hours and learn legal texts. “We managed to transform the jail into a school,” she said.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> After gaining worldwide attention, the Tamimi family say their daughter has been offered scholarships to study at a university abroad but that she is still deciding.
> 
> Her international recognition infuriated the Israeli government, Ahed said. “They are afraid of the truth. If they were not wrong, they would not be afraid of the truth. The truth scares them. And I managed to deliver this truth to the world. And of course, they’re afraid how far I reached. They always fear the truth, they are the occupier, and we are under occupation.”
> 
> Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'



Eight months in the hossegow taught her a valuable lesson. You impotent Pom Pom flailers for islamic gee-had don't bear the consequences of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Sharia paradise of Hamas'istan.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If someone's home was in Jaffa, Gaza is not his home.



Says no international law anywhere.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How Ann Wright, Former US Army Colonel and Diplomat, Became a Peace Activist*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'*
> 
> Tamimi, who rose to global prominence as a child living under military occupation, said she and other Palestinians in her all-female prison unit would sit for hours and learn legal texts. “We managed to transform the jail into a school,” she said.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> After gaining worldwide attention, the Tamimi family say their daughter has been offered scholarships to study at a university abroad but that she is still deciding.
> 
> Her international recognition infuriated the Israeli government, Ahed said. “They are afraid of the truth. If they were not wrong, they would not be afraid of the truth. The truth scares them. And I managed to deliver this truth to the world. And of course, they’re afraid how far I reached. They always fear the truth, they are the occupier, and we are under occupation.”
> 
> Ahed Tamimi: 'I am a freedom fighter. I will not be the victim'




Tamimi lucky she was imprisoned in Israel and not Syria.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Two Italian artists paint a mural of ahed Al Tamimi on the Israeli Apartheid Wall in Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Barriers are needed to keep the barbarians out of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




This is funny.  Because just two days ago, was it?, you were saying that Palestinians don't differentiate between citizens.  

Makes you go hmmmmm.....


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is funny.  Because just two days ago, was it?, you were saying that Palestinians don't differentiate between citizens.
> 
> Makes you go hmmmmm.....
Click to expand...


The image appears to be something dummied-up in Photoshop that was cut and pasted from the web. 

Another Tinmore attempt at fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Occupation Forces arrested Palestinian boy for raising the flag of Palestine while colonizers storming Al Aqsa mosque .


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Tamimi's speak about their family's history of struggle against occupation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How Palestine's Tamimi Family Resists Israel's Occupation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli Occupation Forces arrested Palestinian boy for raising the flag of Palestine while colonizers storming Al Aqsa mosque .



You mean a Jordanian flag.


----------



## Hollie

The welfare fraud of Arabs-Moslems masquerading as Pal’istanians is getting trimmed.

Ya’ Allah.

The _Great Satan™️ _rules, dude.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gee-had is a losing game.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist kids with islsmic terrorist toys.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rabab Abdulhadi: How and Why the Israel Lobby Is Suppressing Free Speech*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Winning. The local is global and organizers are moving mountains. The Alameda County Offices Board recognized May 15, 1948 as Palestine Cultural Day.


----------



## Hollie

Winning. Great Satan cuts to welfare payments causes UNRWA to cut jobs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Incitement to gee-had is a crime. 

To the hoosegow for you. She can pray to her man-god Muhammud (swish) from cell block C.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad. Card carrying journalist.


----------



## rylah

_"Uninhabitable" _
 $$$$


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Janna Jihad. Card carrying journalist.




Janna Jihad = Heavenly Jihad in Arabic.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



With the Great Satan™️ cutting their welfare payments to the Arab-Moslem terrorists parading as Pal’istanians, 2020 cant come soon enough.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> _"Uninhabitable" _
> $$$$


Looks nice. Why don't you book a hotel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Laila al-Marayati*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Welfare crooks speak about their welfare paycheck cuts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Welfare crooks speak about their welfare paycheck cuts


The Palestinians did not need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.

BTW, Israel is still getting its welfare checks.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Uninhabitable" _
> $$$$
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice. Why don't you book a hotel?
Click to expand...

I would...
No kosher food in Gaza.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Welfare crooks speak about their welfare paycheck cuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians did not need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> BTW, Israel is still getting its welfare checks.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you are still befeddled. 


Indeed. Without kuffar handouts, the end of the largest welfare fraud in history is drawing to an end.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Uninhabitable" _
> $$$$
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice. Why don't you book a hotel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would...
> No kosher food in Gaza.
Click to expand...

Gaza has a power plant.

Israel bombed it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Uninhabitable" _
> $$$$
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice. Why don't you book a hotel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would...
> No kosher food in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gaza has a power plant.
> 
> Israel bombed it.
Click to expand...



I don't understand if You expect me to cry or laugh when Jihadis get what they ask for.
Was there Kosher food before that?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabs never had Jerusalem as a capital,
they've built a different city instead, to be a regional capital of their spreading empire...
The whole thing is just to spite the Jews, who with G-d's help liberated their eternal capital from foreign rule, except for one location.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




Q. P F Tinmore  Is this a #BDS-hole's way to run from discussing the previous page?
...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another Islamist cleric rockin’ the gee-had in Hamas’istan. 

The usual “Islamic fascism will rule the planet”.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Arabs lost the wars. 100% of the land belongs to Israel to do with as it pleases.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.


They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
Click to expand...


Stole what stuff?

Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.

The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
Click to expand...

Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.

Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.

Good plan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
Click to expand...


So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture. 

It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy. 

Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.

Bad idea.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.


Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?
Click to expand...


You never identified what “stuff”. This stuttering and mumbling while cutting and pasting slogans seems to be a common occurrence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You never identified what “stuff”. This stuttering and mumbling while cutting and pasting slogans seems to be a common occurrence.
Click to expand...

Stuff like orange groves, orchards, farms, factories, stores, commercial real estate, etc.. Stuff needed for an economy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Amahl Bishara interviews Palestinian sociologist Salim Tamari*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stole what stuff?
> 
> Those who “stole stuff” can be ascribed to the Islamist colonial settler project (the Turk invaders), whose empire of conquest and subjugation eventually collapsed under the dead weight of Islamist ideology.
> 
> The carrion left behind are the Arab-Moslem beggars and squatters expecting a never ending welfare fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You never identified what “stuff”. This stuttering and mumbling while cutting and pasting slogans seems to be a common occurrence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stuff like orange groves, orchards, farms, factories, stores, commercial real estate, etc.. Stuff needed for an economy.
Click to expand...


“Stuff” you claim but refuse to identify with facts. 

Shirley, you have a YouTube video? Something you find from Press TV?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade i.e. they were making money. There was no need for aid.
> 
> Then along cam Israel now we have two countries on welfare.
> 
> Good plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You never identified what “stuff”. This stuttering and mumbling while cutting and pasting slogans seems to be a common occurrence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stuff like orange groves, orchards, farms, factories, stores, commercial real estate, etc.. Stuff needed for an economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Stuff” you claim but refuse to identify with facts.
> 
> Shirley, you have a YouTube video? Something you find from Press TV?
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, “stole what stuff” goes unanswered so you can rattle on with unsupported conjecture.
> 
> It seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Forever being dependent on a welfare fraud program is not a viable plan for success.
> 
> Bad idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> t seems that Arabs-Moslems are in real need of flimsy excuses to sidestep their inability to produce a functioning society or functioning economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the one they had before Israel stole their stuff?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You never identified what “stuff”. This stuttering and mumbling while cutting and pasting slogans seems to be a common occurrence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stuff like orange groves, orchards, farms, factories, stores, commercial real estate, etc.. Stuff needed for an economy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “Stuff” you claim but refuse to identify with facts.
> 
> Shirley, you have a YouTube video? Something you find from Press TV?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Nothing from Press TV, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Wore the Veil" ( Eu Usei o Véu ) - Um Poema por Farah Chamma.*

**


----------



## Hollie

Hamas has enforced veiling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## Darkman00

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the Arabs-Moslems begging for kuffar welfare dollars thought they could live off of handouts forever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need welfare before Israel stole their stuff.
Click to expand...

Ohhhhh ....


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Darkman00

^ ^ 

_*She Blinded Me With Science. ))


*_


----------



## Hollie

*Arabs-Moslems Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/ just another islamic Death Cultist.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Born in the Death Cult.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



A story that could easily be staged, the same way Hamas paid $$$ a family to lie about an infant's death weeks ago.

In the first place it's ridiculous how Gazans have this tendency to* cry for destruction of Israel *and at the same time *complain they don't get Israeli social service*.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A story that could easily be staged, the same way Hamas paid $$$ a family to lie about an infant's death weeks ago.
> 
> In the first place it's ridiculous how Gazans have this tendency to* cry for destruction of Israel *and at the same time *complain they don't get Israeli social service*.
Click to expand...

Israeli services they would not need if Israel would allow them to have their own stuff.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A story that could easily be staged, the same way Hamas paid $$$ a family to lie about an infant's death weeks ago.
> 
> In the first place it's ridiculous how Gazans have this tendency to* cry for destruction of Israel *and at the same time *complain they don't get Israeli social service*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli services they would not need if Israel would allow them to have their own stuff.
Click to expand...


Your Islamic terrorist heroes have a dedicated welfare fraud agency that showers them with money to buy stuff. The stuff they buy is gee-had related. 

Hamas second-richest terror group in world, Forbes says


----------



## Hollie

Lamis Deek. Islamic terrorist wannabe.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A story that could easily be staged, the same way Hamas paid $$$ a family to lie about an infant's death weeks ago.
> 
> In the first place it's ridiculous how Gazans have this tendency to* cry for destruction of Israel *and at the same time *complain they don't get Israeli social service*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli services they would not need if Israel would allow them to have their own stuff.
Click to expand...


Impotence looking for excuses, that's what it is.
Easiest thing in history is to blame Your failures on the Jews.

Doesn't make one less an impotent.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **



Isn't that the whore who used go around telling people that Jews are pushing Arabs in chains to work in the fields?

Palestinian propaganda utters naturally from such an eager Nazi whore.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used go around telling people that Jews are pushing Arabs in chains to work in the fields?
> 
> Palestinian propaganda utters naturally from such a practiced actress.
Click to expand...

 I haven't heard that one.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used go around telling people that Jews are pushing Arabs in chains to work in the fields?
> 
> Palestinian propaganda utters naturally from such a practiced actress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't heard that one.
Click to expand...


If it’s not on YouTube, it’s not something you would be aware of.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used go around telling people that Jews are pushing Arabs in chains to work in the fields?
> 
> Palestinian propaganda utters naturally from such a practiced actress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't heard that one.
Click to expand...



#BDS-holes should watch their own videos before posting the rubbish, 
maybe You're  clown show...at least say so on the sign, some people have phobias of clowns.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Egypt, Imperialism, Wikileaks Part 4: Lamis Deek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used go around telling people that Jews are pushing Arabs in chains to work in the fields?
> 
> Palestinian propaganda utters naturally from such a practiced actress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven't heard that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> #BDS-holes should watch their own videos before posting the rubbish,
> maybe You're  clown show...at least say so on the sign, some people have phobias of clowns.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> some people have phobias of clowns.


If I did I wouldn't be here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ocala Magazine Radio with Lisa McGinnes and Manal Fakhoury*

**


----------



## Hollie

Interview with a Death Cultist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Monster with a knife.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Discussion with Haidar Eid and Mazin Qumsiyeh*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Before Their Diaspora. Walid Khalidi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINE VS ISRAEL: Who's RIGHT? (Story-time) @LayanBubbly*

**


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

The victors always tell history. They are "right".


----------



## Hollie

Getty Images


*MORE ON:*
*Palestinian Authority now uses half of all foreign aid to reward terror*

*https://nypost.com/2017/07/28/pales...ses-half-of-all-foreign-aid-to-reward-terror/*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

"Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."



P F Tinmore said:


> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*


*(COMMENT)*

It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").

The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.

Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shazoomx4

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It was not a "soldier." It was an Israeli Border Police Officer


Same shit different platter.

Foreigners who defend and engage in criminal activities. Calling them law enforcement is a big joke.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shazoomx4 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
Click to expand...

Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.

Is name calling all you got?


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...

I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
So, by definition, she terror supporter...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shazoomx4 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
Click to expand...




Shazoomx4 said:


> IDF in action


Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
Click to expand...

More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Meet Ahed Tamimi, 17-Year-Old West Bank Activist Jailed 8 Months for Slapping Israeli Soldier*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not a "soldier." It was an Israeli Border Police Officer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same shit different platter.
> 
> Foreigners who defend and engage in criminal activities. Calling them law enforcement is a big joke.
Click to expand...


Talking about foreigners,
 have the Tamimis relinquished their claim to the lands of Qatar in favor of Nabi Saleh?

*The Tamimi Tribe Baghdad 1939*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shazoomx4 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> "Battery against a police officer involves causing injury to a law enforcement officer (or, in some states, attempting to or threatening to cause injury). It is treated as a very serious crime. Many states have specific and harsh penalties that apply to battery against a police officer."
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not a "soldier."   It was an Israeli Border Police Officer ("_MAGAV_").
> 
> The "_MAGAV_" _[a form of Gendarme (sometimes the ranks are augmented by members of the IDF)]_ have duties in Area C of the West Bank, and in such territory where Israeli civilian control has been established.
> 
> Arab Palestinian arguments that claim that "AhedTamimi" had the right to assault the Police Officer, is a clear acknowledgment that the Arab Palestinian are above the law and bare no consequences for their criminal actions.  Not only do they have no understanding for the Rule of Law, but - forgot what law and order are.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
Click to expand...

Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?

We have plenty of those already.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
Click to expand...


So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?

This is an infantile impotency,
symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> 
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?
> 
> This is an infantile impotency,
> symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.
Click to expand...

Another voice to the mantra.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?
> 
> This is an infantile impotency,
> symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another voice to the mantra.
Click to expand...


So how is that Your every argument against the Israeli side ends with this insistence to deny the Israeli voice by default?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> 
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?
> 
> This is an infantile impotency,
> symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another voice to the mantra.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how is that Your every argument against the Israeli side ends with this insistence to deny the Israeli voice by default?
Click to expand...

Israel has been shoveling the same shit for decades.

Give it a rest.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?
> 
> This is an infantile impotency,
> symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another voice to the mantra.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how is that Your every argument against the Israeli side ends with this insistence to deny the Israeli voice by default?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been shoveling the same shit for decades.
> 
> Give it a rest.
Click to expand...


It's something people, say  to deflect from the weeds in their backyard.
What are You talking about?


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not an activist, it was more a terror supporter
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, Israel's old terrorist canard again.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called her what she was..   she is a terror support.
> when she annoys IDF in action they can miss a terrorist come.
> So, by definition, she terror supporter...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IDF in action
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like stealing land and shooting unarmed protestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
Click to expand...

You came for the same just for the Palestinians


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shazoomx4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> More like protecting on land and shooting on armed terrorist?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you come here just to spout Israeli talking points?
> 
> We have plenty of those already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Your main argument is that Israelis should be blocked by default from expressing their views?
> 
> This is an infantile impotency,
> symptom of most anti-Israeli arguments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another voice to the mantra.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So how is that Your every argument against the Israeli side ends with this insistence to deny the Israeli voice by default?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been shoveling the same shit for decades.
> 
> Give it a rest.
Click to expand...

Well, the Jihadis are not too inventive, have been doing the same shit and failing for decades.
Run to Your safe space.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The crisis in Islamic terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Students For Justice in Palestine NYC: The One State Solution*

**


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


> *Students For Justice in Palestine NYC: The One State Solution*
> 
> **


One state solution not going to happen.
It is worse than the two state solution..


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Students For Justice in Palestine NYC: The One State Solution*
> 
> **



And in short please?


----------



## Shazoomx4

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Students For Justice in Palestine NYC: The One State Solution*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in short please?
Click to expand...

In short?  what is happening in Syria? Egypt? Lebanon? any Arab state? not include a state with a lot of oil....  just die, poverty, killing and primitive Islamic rules...


----------



## rylah

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.



Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

rylah said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
Click to expand...


I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?


----------



## rylah

AzogtheDefiler said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
Click to expand...


By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.

To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.

But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Israeli Arabs, ad as a whole in the west and middle east are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

rylah said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
> By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
> By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
> By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.
> 
> To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
> From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
> There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.
> 
> But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Arabs are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.
Click to expand...



Secular Muslims have little say over the radical ones as I see it. Holocaust still fresh with many Jews, they will never give up their one Jewish state.


----------



## rylah

AzogtheDefiler said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
> By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
> By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
> By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.
> 
> To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
> From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
> There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.
> 
> But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Arabs are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Secular Muslims have little say over the radical ones as I see it. Holocaust still fresh with many Jews, they will never give up their one Jewish state.
Click to expand...


It's not about giving up Israel G-d forbid.
It's about Israel provoking a reformation in the middle east by default.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

rylah said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither is going to happen, at least I don't think. The sides are too far apart and there are those pesky religious differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
> By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
> By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
> By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.
> 
> To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
> From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
> There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.
> 
> But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Arabs are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Secular Muslims have little say over the radical ones as I see it. Holocaust still fresh with many Jews, they will never give up their one Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about giving up Israel G-d forbid.
> It's about Israel provoking a reformation in the middle east by default.
Click to expand...


I think that is optmistic but not realistic.


----------



## rylah

AzogtheDefiler said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Religious difference can be a key, what many are afraid to deal with should be dealt with most readiness and openly. Israel has a potential of motivating the religious solution, or some sort of secular reformation in the Arab world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
> By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
> By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
> By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.
> 
> To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
> From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
> There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.
> 
> But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Arabs are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Secular Muslims have little say over the radical ones as I see it. Holocaust still fresh with many Jews, they will never give up their one Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about giving up Israel G-d forbid.
> It's about Israel provoking a reformation in the middle east by default.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is optmistic but not realistic.
Click to expand...


No it's not only optimistic, it's inevitable.
In 2 generations every 3rd Israeli citizen is a traditional Jew.
Who's the PM?
 I don't know if You've seen the modern religious Israeli Jewish communities, this young generation is vibrant and integral in every aspect of their country's development. 
It will be very hard to go beyond that basic conversation.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see how? Would you mind elanborating on this please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By being a leading player in the middle east, the one that has the most to offer.
> By steadily developing one's own worth and building bridges with past enemies.
> By organizing mediums for long - term direct exchange between leaders of local communities, including those with opposing and most critical voices.
> By balancing liberalism with religious heritage.
> 
> To talk about theological aspects of the conflict would require a whole thread.
> From my point of view, with real learned scholars of Islam, there can be reached more agreement on those issues, rather than with purely political attitude.
> There's debate between Christianity, Judaism and Islam separately, but everyone is supposed to be afraid of an open discussion between Judaism and Islam. So we're especially obligated to engage in that exchange on a more vocal and clear level.
> 
> But basically there're 2 trends I'm referring to -. Israeli Jews are becoming more traditional while Arabs are becoming more secular.  In my view the situation is reaching a new equilibrium in 2-3 generations when the ideological distance between the 2 civilizations is less apparent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Secular Muslims have little say over the radical ones as I see it. Holocaust still fresh with many Jews, they will never give up their one Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about giving up Israel G-d forbid.
> It's about Israel provoking a reformation in the middle east by default.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that is optmistic but not realistic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not only optimistic, it's inevitable.
> In 2 generations every 3rd Israeli citizen is a traditional Jew.
> Who's the PM?
> I don't know if You've seen the modern religious Israeli Jewish communities, this young generation is vibrant and integral in every aspect of their country's development.
> It will be very hard to go beyond that basic conversation.
Click to expand...


I'd add to that - language.
For years has been Arab channels and programs on Israeli tv, before that there was one channel, and when it stopped broadcasting we'd watch Egyptian movies, yet Israelis have just now established international media channels in Arabic. 

Israelis use lots of Hebrew and Arabic words no matter which language they speak, but we have a lot to improve in this specific aspect.  Although we already see different Jewish Arabic debaters rise on international Arab media. There're lot's of examples I can show You, but I want to focus on a bit different  one so that You understand how easy it is to gap those distances:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

If Arabs-Moslems want to learn something, learn from those who know.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> If Arabs-Moslems want to learn something, learn from those who know.


Funny that they did not mention that Israel has destroyed half of Gaza's farmland and has stolen a lot of farmland in the West Bank.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs-Moslems want to learn something, learn from those who know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that they did not mention that Israel has destroyed half of Gaza's farmland and has stolen a lot of farmland in the West Bank.
Click to expand...


Funny that you did not mention you tend to rattle on with outrageous claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Girls Will Pitch Their App to Silicon Valley*

*




*

NABLUS, WEST BANK — Four Palestinian high school friends are heading to California this week to pitch their mobile app about fire prevention to Silicon Valley’s tech leaders, after winning a slot in the finals of a worldwide competition among more than 19,000 teenage girls.

Twelve teams made it to the finals of the “Technovation Challenge” in San Jose, California, presenting apps that tackle problems in their communities. The Palestinian teens compete in the senior division against teams from Egypt, the United States, Mexico, India and Spain, for scholarships of up to $15,000.

Palestinian Girls Will Pitch Their App to Silicon Valley


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel’s IDF Sets New Annual Record for Killing Children in Palestine*

*GAZA CITY, PALESTINE — *The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have killed at least 35 Palestinian children, around 30 in Gaza and five in the occupied West Bank, making 2018 a record-breaking year for child fatalities in Palestine with nearly four months still to go. The NGO Defense for Children International Palestine (DCIP) determined the total number of casualties in a report published Monday.

Since the latest casualty figures were released, Israeli airstrikes in Gaza killed an 18-month-old along with her mother who was nine months pregnant, meaning casualty figures are only continuing to grow since the report’s publication.

According to DCIP, this year has seen the number of Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces exceed the number for any single year within the past decade, outside of large-scale Israeli military offensives. The previous record was set in 2016, when the IDF killed 32 Palestinian children, mostly in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —






After.


----------



## rylah

*US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
Following the attack on Israel, the United States stressed that "Israel has the right to defend itself," and the French Foreign Ministry issued a condemnation of the rocket launchings Ambassador Danon called on the UN Security Council to condemn Hamas.

The United States on Thursday condemned rocket fire at Israel . In a briefing to reporters, US State Department spokesman Heather Neuer said that "the events in Gaza are very worrying, and in general we condemn the rocket attacks against Israel and call for an end to the destructive violence." She added that the United States is closely monitoring the developments and noted that "Israel has the right to defend itself."

Earlier, France also condemned the rocket fire. "France condemns the escalation of violence between Israel and the Gaza Strip," France said in a statement issued by France's Foreign Ministry, "and condemns the rocket fire at Israel and hopes that restraint will overcome the violence and that the understandings will be implemented between the sides in order to prevent further harm to civilians."

"These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade while respecting Israel's security concerns on the one hand, and the realization of reconciliation among the Palestinian factions And the return of the control of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza on the other hand, France, together with its European partners, supports the efforts being made in this direction. "






*US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*


----------



## rylah

The attack on the building of the Al-Mashaal Institute in western Gaza City by Israeli fighter jets

The Palestinians reported that the building was attacked with ten missiles and completely destroyed. According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza 18 injured were counted, one of the injured was a photographer for Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV.

Residents of the area adjacent to the building indicate that prior to the attack they received warning calls from the IDF calling for them to move away from the building.
The building served as a cultural institution, but the offices of the internal security apparatus of Hamas and the offices of the Egyptian community in Gaza were also located there.

Watch the moment of attack on Abu Ali Blog


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




Sorry to burst Your bubble,

but Canaanism is merely one of alternative versions of Zionism, 
it returned to Palestine during Jewish revival of the land, in the early decades of the previous century.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs-Moslems want to learn something, learn from those who know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that they did not mention that Israel has destroyed half of Gaza's farmland and has stolen a lot of farmland in the West Bank.
Click to expand...


Farmland in Gaza also happens to be the direct ground path of infiltration and attack delivery.

Proceed from there.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel’s IDF Sets New Annual Record for Killing Children in Palestine*
> 
> *GAZA CITY, PALESTINE — *The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have killed at least 35 Palestinian children, around 30 in Gaza and five in the occupied West Bank, making 2018 a record-breaking year for child fatalities in Palestine with nearly four months still to go. The NGO Defense for Children International Palestine (DCIP) determined the total number of casualties in a report published Monday.
> 
> Since the latest casualty figures were released, Israeli airstrikes in Gaza killed an 18-month-old along with her mother who was nine months pregnant, meaning casualty figures are only continuing to grow since the report’s publication.
> 
> According to DCIP, this year has seen the number of Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces exceed the number for any single year within the past decade, outside of large-scale Israeli military offensives. The previous record was set in 2016, when the IDF killed 32 Palestinian children, mostly in the occupied West Bank.





Just more Pallywood lies exposed:










*Her name is Elle McBroom and she's alive and well.Her parents are actually pretty strong in twitter: @AustinMcbroom @CatherinePaiz.*
*I hope they'll do something about all the jihadi propagandists who've used their daughter's photo.*

*Palestinian Blood Libel of the Day: The Baby and Her Pregnant Mother Edition*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>









Wow did someone get FAT in the prison!


----------



## rylah

*We Remember: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9, 2001*






On this day back in 2001 a depraved woman*—Ahlam Tamimi—*
delivered a human bomb to a packed downtown Jerusalem pizzeria at lunchtime, Never forget: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9 2001.

Fifteen people, including two U.S. citizens, were murdered in this Hamas-orchestrated attack.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
> Following the attack on Israel, the United States stressed that "Israel has the right to defend itself," and the French Foreign Ministry issued a condemnation of the rocket launchings Ambassador Danon called on the UN Security Council to condemn Hamas.
> 
> The United States on Thursday condemned rocket fire at Israel . In a briefing to reporters, US State Department spokesman Heather Neuer said that "the events in Gaza are very worrying, and in general we condemn the rocket attacks against Israel and call for an end to the destructive violence." She added that the United States is closely monitoring the developments and noted that "Israel has the right to defend itself."
> 
> Earlier, France also condemned the rocket fire. "France condemns the escalation of violence between Israel and the Gaza Strip," France said in a statement issued by France's Foreign Ministry, "and condemns the rocket fire at Israel and hopes that restraint will overcome the violence and that the understandings will be implemented between the sides in order to prevent further harm to civilians."
> 
> "These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade while respecting Israel's security concerns on the one hand, and the realization of reconciliation among the Palestinian factions And the return of the control of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza on the other hand, France, together with its European partners, supports the efforts being made in this direction. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*





rylah said:


> These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade


So, what have these lackeys done to lift the blockade?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Blockade will never be lifted.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
> Following the attack on Israel, the United States stressed that "Israel has the right to defend itself," and the French Foreign Ministry issued a condemnation of the rocket launchings Ambassador Danon called on the UN Security Council to condemn Hamas.
> 
> The United States on Thursday condemned rocket fire at Israel . In a briefing to reporters, US State Department spokesman Heather Neuer said that "the events in Gaza are very worrying, and in general we condemn the rocket attacks against Israel and call for an end to the destructive violence." She added that the United States is closely monitoring the developments and noted that "Israel has the right to defend itself."
> 
> Earlier, France also condemned the rocket fire. "France condemns the escalation of violence between Israel and the Gaza Strip," France said in a statement issued by France's Foreign Ministry, "and condemns the rocket fire at Israel and hopes that restraint will overcome the violence and that the understandings will be implemented between the sides in order to prevent further harm to civilians."
> 
> "These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade while respecting Israel's security concerns on the one hand, and the realization of reconciliation among the Palestinian factions And the return of the control of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza on the other hand, France, together with its European partners, supports the efforts being made in this direction. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what have these lackeys done to lift the blockade?
Click to expand...


Why is there a blockade?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Because Israel is worried about Hamas gaining weaponry to use against Israel and its citizens.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
> Following the attack on Israel, the United States stressed that "Israel has the right to defend itself," and the French Foreign Ministry issued a condemnation of the rocket launchings Ambassador Danon called on the UN Security Council to condemn Hamas.
> 
> The United States on Thursday condemned rocket fire at Israel . In a briefing to reporters, US State Department spokesman Heather Neuer said that "the events in Gaza are very worrying, and in general we condemn the rocket attacks against Israel and call for an end to the destructive violence." She added that the United States is closely monitoring the developments and noted that "Israel has the right to defend itself."
> 
> Earlier, France also condemned the rocket fire. "France condemns the escalation of violence between Israel and the Gaza Strip," France said in a statement issued by France's Foreign Ministry, "and condemns the rocket fire at Israel and hopes that restraint will overcome the violence and that the understandings will be implemented between the sides in order to prevent further harm to civilians."
> 
> "These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade while respecting Israel's security concerns on the one hand, and the realization of reconciliation among the Palestinian factions And the return of the control of the Palestinian Authority in Gaza on the other hand, France, together with its European partners, supports the efforts being made in this direction. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US, France condemn rocket fire at Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> These events underscore the urgency of working towards a lasting political solution in Gaza and an effective solution to the humanitarian crisis affecting the Palestinian population, including the lifting of the blockade
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what have these lackeys done to lift the blockade?
Click to expand...


I don't know,
remind me again why should they?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *We Remember: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9, 2001*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On this day back in 2001 a depraved woman*—Ahlam Tamimi—*
> delivered a human bomb to a packed downtown Jerusalem pizzeria at lunchtime, Never forget: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9 2001.
> 
> Fifteen people, including two U.S. citizens, were murdered in this Hamas-orchestrated attack.


Last year, Jordanian lower courts handed her legal victory when it rejected the US request on the ground that the US-Jordan extradition treaty signed in 1995 was unconstitutional because it was never ratified by the Jordanian Parliament.

On Monday, Jordan's Supreme Court agreed with the lower court's decisions making her extradition legally impossible for Jordan. "All of the Jordanian courts agreed with our position to reject the American request because it was illegal according to Jordan's constitution," Hikmat Rawashdeh, Tamimi's lawyer, told Al Jazeera.

"The constitution bars extraditing any Jordanian citizen without the due process of the law or proper extradition request, which was not done by the American side," he added.

Rawashdeh also said that Jordan's constitution prevents prosecuting an accused person with the same offence twice, similar to the "double jeopardy" clause in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution.

Ahlam al-Tamimi: 'We only wanted freedom'


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *We Remember: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9, 2001*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On this day back in 2001 a depraved woman*—Ahlam Tamimi—*
> delivered a human bomb to a packed downtown Jerusalem pizzeria at lunchtime, Never forget: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9 2001.
> 
> Fifteen people, including two U.S. citizens, were murdered in this Hamas-orchestrated attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Last year, Jordanian lower courts handed her legal victory when it rejected the US request on the ground that the US-Jordan extradition treaty signed in 1995 was unconstitutional because it was never ratified by the Jordanian Parliament.
> 
> On Monday, Jordan's Supreme Court agreed with the lower court's decisions making her extradition legally impossible for Jordan. "All of the Jordanian courts agreed with our position to reject the American request because it was illegal according to Jordan's constitution," Hikmat Rawashdeh, Tamimi's lawyer, told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "The constitution bars extraditing any Jordanian citizen without the due process of the law or proper extradition request, which was not done by the American side," he added.
> 
> Rawashdeh also said that Jordan's constitution prevents prosecuting an accused person with the same offence twice, similar to the "double jeopardy" clause in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution.
> 
> Ahlam al-Tamimi: 'We only wanted freedom'
Click to expand...


When have Islamic mass murderers ever bought freedom to anyone?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Jordan has law and courts? I did not know that. Like real courts? Not the sham sharia courts?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *We Remember: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9, 2001*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On this day back in 2001 a depraved woman*—Ahlam Tamimi—*
> delivered a human bomb to a packed downtown Jerusalem pizzeria at lunchtime, Never forget: Sbarro Pizzeria Massacre, Jerusalem, Aug. 9 2001.
> 
> Fifteen people, including two U.S. citizens, were murdered in this Hamas-orchestrated attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Last year, Jordanian lower courts handed her legal victory when it rejected the US request on the ground that the US-Jordan extradition treaty signed in 1995 was unconstitutional because it was never ratified by the Jordanian Parliament.
> 
> On Monday, Jordan's Supreme Court agreed with the lower court's decisions making her extradition legally impossible for Jordan. "All of the Jordanian courts agreed with our position to reject the American request because it was illegal according to Jordan's constitution," Hikmat Rawashdeh, Tamimi's lawyer, told Al Jazeera.
> 
> "The constitution bars extraditing any Jordanian citizen without the due process of the law or proper extradition request, which was not done by the American side," he added.
> 
> Rawashdeh also said that Jordan's constitution prevents prosecuting an accused person with the same offence twice, similar to the "double jeopardy" clause in the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution.
> 
> Ahlam al-Tamimi: 'We only wanted freedom'
Click to expand...

Coming from the same Al-Jazeerah that promotes ISIS,
I can see how  the Tamimi family fits their headlines:

* Ahed Tamimi calling for suicide bombings and stabbings*

...like a glove.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.


GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
Click to expand...


Here's an idea. How about not putting military objectives in cultural centres?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's an idea. How about not putting military objectives in cultural centres?
Click to expand...

Standard Israeli bullshit talking point,


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
Click to expand...


The Islamic terrorist “cultural center”, (c’mon, that really is funny), was just another welfare funded Islamic terrorist stronghold.

Were any Korans martyred as part of the remodeling done by Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist “cultural center”, (c’mon, that really is funny), was just another welfare funded Islamic terrorist stronghold.
> 
> Were any Korans martyred as part of the remodeling done by Israel?
Click to expand...

Stupid post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Islamic terrorist “cultural center”, (c’mon, that really is funny), was just another welfare funded Islamic terrorist stronghold.
> 
> Were any Korans martyred as part of the remodeling done by Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
Click to expand...


I was trying to be helpful. A martyred Koran could be considered a 
_Crime Against Koranity_. I would definitely want to get the UN involved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*  Haaretz Reports Israel Targeting Civilians in Gaza as “Collective Punishment”  *
 
*The admission in Haaretz is the ultimate expression of the IDF’s impunity, as its war crimes against Palestinians have been ignored for so long that it now openly admits that it is targeting civilians in the world’s largest “open-air prison.”*

*TEL AVIV, ISRAEL — *A newspaper article published in the Hebrew-language version of Israeli newspaper _Haaretz_ has stated that the Israeli military (IDF) is intentionally targeting civilians in Gaza as a form of collective punishment aimed at placing Hamas — which Israel continues to regard as a resistance group, though it has governed Gaza since winning elections there in 2007 — “in a problematic situation.”

The article states that, after a rocket launched by Hamas’ armed wing landed in Beersheva, “the IDF began to attack civilian targets, including population centers, with the goal of causing the residents to understand the price of escalation and placing Hamas in a problematic situation.” In other words, the article acknowledges that the IDF is deliberately targeting civilians in Gaza to collectively punish all those living in Gaza for the primitive rockets allegedly launched by Hamas into Israeli territory.

The article goes on to claim that the IDF’s deliberate targeting of civilian sites is a “change in policy” for the IDF, as past Israeli airstrikes had “focused on Hamas’ clear military objectives, mostly in areas where civilian presence is sparse.” * Yet, past airstrikes have targeted civilian infrastructure, which were then labeled, after the fact, as Hamas military sites and assets.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abbas, Israel Pull The Power Plug On War-Torn Gaza Strip*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abbas, Israel Pull The Power Plug On War-Torn Gaza Strip*



It was only a matter of time before you resorted to YouTube framed conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie

You people are such incompetent boobs. 



Gaza terror rocket hits Strip’s own power lines, leaves Palestinians in dark


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Residents of Khan al-Ahmar not leaving village*

JERUSALEM (Ma'an) -- Residents of the Palestinian Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar, East of the central West Bank district of Jerusalem, declared on Wednesday that they would not agree to be transferred anywhere.

*Residents of Khan al-Ahmar not leaving village*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think it would behoove you to check your sources, and their sources (when possible) to determine what was actually said.  It turns out here that the original source for the story_ (*Haaretz News* Story - Hebrew-language version) _said nothing of the sort. _(I recommend you read it and determine for yourself *!* )_



P F Tinmore said:


> *  Haaretz Reports Israel Targeting Civilians in Gaza as “Collective Punishment”  *
> *The admission in Haaretz is the ultimate expression of the IDF’s impunity, as its war crimes against Palestinians have been ignored for so long that it now openly admits that it is targeting civilians in the world’s largest “open-air prison.”*
> 
> *TEL AVIV, ISRAEL — *A newspaper article published in the Hebrew-language version of Israeli newspaper _Haaretz_ has stated that the Israeli military (IDF) is intentionally targeting civilians in Gaza as a form of collective punishment aimed at placing Hamas — which Israel continues to regard as a resistance group, though it has governed Gaza since winning elections there in 2007 — “in a problematic situation.”


*(COMMENT)*

 The story written August 10th, 2018 By  * Whitney Webb *   [ Whitney Webb   @_whitneywebb ], a freelance journalist from Chile; and a contributing reporter.  The "MPN World News Service" is actually a one-man band (non-mainstream) news outlet from Ireland.  The author (Webb) put the "Collective Punishment" slant on the Haaretz News story and the MPN News Service just picked it up and republished it without a "fact check" normally associated with a professional news outlet.https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb

A portion_ (excerpt)_ of the important bit of the original new article --- as best I can get translated → is:


			
				Haaretz News Service ✪ Tel Aviv ✪ Israel said:
			
		

> The extensive attack by the IDF in the Gaza Strip tonight (Thursday), after the rocket fired at Beersheba, marks a change in Israel's policy of fire. In recent months, the military has focused on Hamas's significant military targets, usually in areas where the civilian presence is sparse.
> 
> The recent attacks have directed against the symbols of government and civilian targets affiliated with Hamas in the center of the Gaza Strip, even in residential neighborhoods.
> 
> The intention behind the last wave of attacks is to put Hamas in a problematic position in front of the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. If so far the attacks have only been directed to the organization's military wing, now the IDF has decided to act...



I think the intention of the freelance article was to twist the facts in favor of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) with the English speaking _(non-Hebrew speaking)_ as the target audience.  This kind of propaganda maneuver is not uncommon among those that wish to further incitement to support violence.

The original article itself goes on to explain what the IDF did and its future intention.

*(• ψ∑•)*

I did like the manner of presentation our friend "P F Tinmore" used to give the misrepresentation of the facts a flare.  Very headline-like!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's policy of attack varies: residential neighborhoods instead of military sites *
After the rocket was fired at Beersheva, the IDF began to attack civilian targets, including population centers, with the goal of causing the residents to understand the price of escalation and placing Hamas in a problematic situation

The IDF's massive assault on the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening, following the rocket fire at Beersheba, marks a change in Israel's policy of fire, and in recent months the army has focused on Hamas's clear military objectives, mostly in areas where the civilian presence is sparse. Symbols of government and civilian targets identified with Hamas in the central Gaza Strip, including residential neighborhoods, and the aim of the latest wave of attacks is to put Hamas in a problematic position vis-a-vis the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. .

Google Traductor


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel arrests 6 Palestinian, 2 foreign journalists, in the span of one week*

In the middle of the night, just before dawn, Israeli forces raided a village in the central West Bank to arrest a Palestinian — a daily occurence in the occupied Palestinian territory.

The target of Monday’s raid on the village of Rantis, which sits right on the Green Line, was Palestinian journalist Ibrahim Rantisi.

The arrest of Rantisi marked the sixth Palestinian journalist to be detained by Israeli forces in a single week, causing alarm among Palestinian media and journalists that Israel’s suppression of their work, will soon also become a daily occurrence .

Rantisi and the five other journalists are among at least 22 Palestinian journalists being held in Israeli custody, according to the Palestinian journalists Syndicate (PSJ).

Israel arrests 6 Palestinian, 2 foreign journalists, in the span of one week


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,


			
				 MG Carl von Clausewitz • Prussian Army • Tactical Theorist on Morals and Political Impact of War" excerpt from • Vom Kriege • said:
			
		

> _The military power must be destroyed, that is, reduced to such a state as not to be able to prosecute the war. This is the sense in which we wish to be understood hereafter, whenever we use the expression "destruction of the enemy's military power."_
> 
> _The country must be conquered, for out of the country a new military force may be formed._
> 
> _But if even both these things are done, still the war, that is, the hostile feeling and action of hostile agencies, _cannot be considered as at an end as long as *the will of the enemy is not subdued* also_; that is, its Government and its allies forced into signing a peace, or the people into submission; for whilst we are in full occupation of the country the war may break out afresh, either in the interior or through assistance given by allies. No doubt this may also take place after a peace, but that shows nothing more than that every war does not carry in itself the elements for a complete decision and final settlement._


The strategy is to ⇒ break the "WILL" of the opponent's population ⇒ to further support the military objectives and prosecution of a war.

There is generally some measure of opposing ideas between → shielding "protected persons" from harm and → breaking of the will to fight in the "protective persons."   


P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel's policy of attack varies: residential neighborhoods instead of military sites *
> After the rocket was fired at Beersheva, the IDF began to attack civilian targets, including population centers, with the goal of causing the residents to understand the price of escalation and placing Hamas in a problematic situation
> 
> The IDF's massive assault on the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening, following the rocket fire at Beersheba, marks a change in Israel's policy of fire, and in recent months the army has focused on Hamas's clear military objectives, mostly in areas where the civilian presence is sparse. Symbols of government and civilian targets identified with Hamas in the central Gaza Strip, including residential neighborhoods, and the aim of the latest wave of attacks is to put Hamas in a problematic position vis-a-vis the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. .
> 
> Google Traductor


*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the application of the Rule 8 _(In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, *purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action* and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, *offers a definite military advantage*.)_ such as *Symbols of Government *and *civilian targets identified* with HAMAS.

We do not know yet how the IDF strategy is evolving.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians certainly opened the doorway at the destruction of the (each other's) opponent's war-fighting or war-sustaining capability.”

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> MG Carl von Clausewitz • Prussian Army • Tactical Theorist on Morals and Political Impact of War" excerpt from • Vom Kriege • said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The military power must be destroyed, that is, reduced to such a state as not to be able to prosecute the war. This is the sense in which we wish to be understood hereafter, whenever we use the expression "destruction of the enemy's military power."_
> 
> _The country must be conquered, for out of the country a new military force may be formed._
> 
> _But if even both these things are done, still the war, that is, the hostile feeling and action of hostile agencies, _cannot be considered as at an end as long as *the will of the enemy is not subdued* also_; that is, its Government and its allies forced into signing a peace, or the people into submission; for whilst we are in full occupation of the country the war may break out afresh, either in the interior or through assistance given by allies. No doubt this may also take place after a peace, but that shows nothing more than that every war does not carry in itself the elements for a complete decision and final settlement._
> 
> 
> 
> The strategy is to ⇒ break the "WILL" of the opponent's population ⇒ to further support the military objectives and prosecution of a war.
> 
> There is generally some measure of opposing ideas between → shielding "protected persons" from harm and → breaking of the will to fight in the "protective persons."
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel's policy of attack varies: residential neighborhoods instead of military sites *
> After the rocket was fired at Beersheva, the IDF began to attack civilian targets, including population centers, with the goal of causing the residents to understand the price of escalation and placing Hamas in a problematic situation
> 
> The IDF's massive assault on the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening, following the rocket fire at Beersheba, marks a change in Israel's policy of fire, and in recent months the army has focused on Hamas's clear military objectives, mostly in areas where the civilian presence is sparse. Symbols of government and civilian targets identified with Hamas in the central Gaza Strip, including residential neighborhoods, and the aim of the latest wave of attacks is to put Hamas in a problematic position vis-a-vis the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. .
> 
> Google Traductor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the application of the Rule 8 _(In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, *purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action* and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, *offers a definite military advantage*.)_ such as *Symbols of Government *and *civilian targets identified* with HAMAS.
> 
> We do not know yet how the IDF strategy is evolving.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians certainly opened the doorway at the destruction of the (each other's) opponent's war-fighting or war-sustaining capability.”
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> We do not know yet how the IDF strategy is evolving.


It isn't evolving. It is the same as it has been since day one.

The Zionist plan is to shove the people aside and colonize their land with foreign colonial settlers. It was like that a hundred years ago and continues as we speak.

Israel has always been the hostile. The Palestinians have been resisting this colonial project for a hundred years.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> MG Carl von Clausewitz • Prussian Army • Tactical Theorist on Morals and Political Impact of War" excerpt from • Vom Kriege • said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The military power must be destroyed, that is, reduced to such a state as not to be able to prosecute the war. This is the sense in which we wish to be understood hereafter, whenever we use the expression "destruction of the enemy's military power."_
> 
> _The country must be conquered, for out of the country a new military force may be formed._
> 
> _But if even both these things are done, still the war, that is, the hostile feeling and action of hostile agencies, _cannot be considered as at an end as long as *the will of the enemy is not subdued* also_; that is, its Government and its allies forced into signing a peace, or the people into submission; for whilst we are in full occupation of the country the war may break out afresh, either in the interior or through assistance given by allies. No doubt this may also take place after a peace, but that shows nothing more than that every war does not carry in itself the elements for a complete decision and final settlement._
> 
> 
> 
> The strategy is to ⇒ break the "WILL" of the opponent's population ⇒ to further support the military objectives and prosecution of a war.
> 
> There is generally some measure of opposing ideas between → shielding "protected persons" from harm and → breaking of the will to fight in the "protective persons."
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel's policy of attack varies: residential neighborhoods instead of military sites *
> After the rocket was fired at Beersheva, the IDF began to attack civilian targets, including population centers, with the goal of causing the residents to understand the price of escalation and placing Hamas in a problematic situation
> 
> The IDF's massive assault on the Gaza Strip on Thursday evening, following the rocket fire at Beersheba, marks a change in Israel's policy of fire, and in recent months the army has focused on Hamas's clear military objectives, mostly in areas where the civilian presence is sparse. Symbols of government and civilian targets identified with Hamas in the central Gaza Strip, including residential neighborhoods, and the aim of the latest wave of attacks is to put Hamas in a problematic position vis-a-vis the civilian population in the Gaza Strip. .
> 
> Google Traductor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the application of the Rule 8 _(In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, *purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action* and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, *offers a definite military advantage*.)_ such as *Symbols of Government *and *civilian targets identified* with HAMAS.
> 
> We do not know yet how the IDF strategy is evolving.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians certainly opened the doorway at the destruction of the (each other's) opponent's war-fighting or war-sustaining capability.”
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> We do not know yet how the IDF strategy is evolving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't evolving. It is the same as it has been since day one.
> 
> The Zionist plan is to shove the people aside and colonize their land with foreign colonial settlers. It was like that a hundred years ago and continues as we speak.
> 
> Israel has always been the hostile. The Palestinians have been resisting this colonial project for a hundred years.
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Not Palestinian...but...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

From Nazi Germany to Arab-Moslem fascism.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Residents of Khan al-Ahmar not leaving village*
> 
> JERUSALEM (Ma'an) -- Residents of the Palestinian Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar, East of the central West Bank district of Jerusalem, declared on Wednesday that they would not agree to be transferred anywhere.
> 
> *Residents of Khan al-Ahmar not leaving village*



This health hazard on the side of the road,
is not a village, doesn't even fit the description of a trailer park:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's an idea. How about not putting military objectives in cultural centres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Standard Israeli bullshit talking point,
Click to expand...

*Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits Hamas launched rockets from Shifa hospital*


I like when that pro-Jihadi impotence is on display.
Why don't You whine some more?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel arrests 6 Palestinian, 2 foreign journalists, in the span of one week*
> 
> In the middle of the night, just before dawn, Israeli forces raided a village in the central West Bank to arrest a Palestinian — a daily occurence in the occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> The target of Monday’s raid on the village of Rantis, which sits right on the Green Line, was Palestinian journalist Ibrahim Rantisi.
> 
> The arrest of Rantisi marked the sixth Palestinian journalist to be detained by Israeli forces in a single week, causing alarm among Palestinian media and journalists that Israel’s suppression of their work, will soon also become a daily occurrence .
> 
> Rantisi and the five other journalists are among at least 22 Palestinian journalists being held in Israeli custody, according to the Palestinian journalists Syndicate (PSJ).
> 
> Israel arrests 6 Palestinian, 2 foreign journalists, in the span of one week



Journalists should get it through their thick skull - boarding a ship to illegally hurt a sovereign nation's security leads to direct consequence that they were warned against.

*It was their choice to get arrested, whining was the purpose of the whole exercise.*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Not Palestinian...but...



Not confusing at all, she's a typical lady from the West with self-contradictions -
not a Muslim.

*Nice try though, I get it, You'r trying to hide the average Muslim men from association with Islam.*

Why?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's an idea. How about not putting military objectives in cultural centres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Standard Israeli bullshit talking point,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits Hamas launched rockets from Shifa hospital*
> 
> 
> I like when that pro-Jihadi impotence is on display.
> Why don't You whine some more?
Click to expand...


According to Tinmore they NEVER fire from Hospitals or Schools


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A multi-level, beloved cultural institution in Gaza City, before it was bombed by an Israeli aircraft on August 9, 2018. (Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun) —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA tragedy: Israeli forces bombed and completely destroyed Al-Meshal building, one of the most prominent cultural buildings in Gaza, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's an idea. How about not putting military objectives in cultural centres?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Standard Israeli bullshit talking point,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits Hamas launched rockets from Shifa hospital*
> 
> 
> I like when that pro-Jihadi impotence is on display.
> Why don't You whine some more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to Tinmore they NEVER fire from Hospitals or Schools
Click to expand...


Compulsive lying is a dangerous Jihadi disease:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



“ Right of Return” whereby the Israelis will eventually become the minority will never happen.  Let them knock themselves out.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



This is something I have brought up many times. Of course there is no response.  
 No Israelis in “ Palestine”, no more Arabs ( Right of Return) in Israel . That issue is DOA


----------



## Shazoomx4

P F Tinmore said:


>


They like to tell the helf of of the story
And even this helf is not helf of all true


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **



Is this the revised version of Arabian 1000 Nights and a Night?

Falsified information came right in the 1st minute:

*a. He claims 1947 UN partition plan gave Israel it's legitimacy - FASE *
The Jewish people were recognized as the sole sovereign nation over all of Palestine including the east bank and Golans 27 years prior to that.

*b. He claims the Partition Plan ordered to establish a Palestinian state and Israel - FALSE.*
The text said "Arab state" and "Jewish state" - both states are Palestinian.

*c. He claims Israel was to be established on "no more than  55% of historic Palestine" - FALSE.*
The numbers are wrong.
Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate. The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders, as much as Britain had no right to give the East Bank (more than half of the land) to a foreign nation. 


The Partition Plan was just that- a plan, it had no binding legal force to create borders or new states. BUT it was the first internationally acknowledged document (to my knowledge) that mentioned an 'Arab state'.  Therefore by denying the opportunity to enter into a legal agreement with the sole sovereign, the Jewish nation, Arabs had forsaken the only legal opportunity at creating an Arab state inside the territory of that sovereign nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the revised version of Arabian 1000 Nights and a Night?
> 
> Falsified information came right in the 1st minute:
> 
> *a. He claims 1947 UN partition plan gave Israel it's legitimacy - FASE *
> The Jewish people were recognized as the sole sovereign nation over all of Palestine including the east bank and Golans 27 years prior to that.
> 
> *b. He claims the Partition Plan ordered to establish a Palestinian state and Israel - FALSE.*
> The text said "Arab state" and "Jewish state" - both states are Palestinian.
> 
> *c. He claims Israel was to be established on "no more than  55% of historic Palestine" - FALSE.*
> The numbers are wrong.
> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate. The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders, as much as Britain had no right to give the East Bank (more than half of the land) to a foreign nation.
> 
> 
> The Partition Plan was just that- a plan, it had no binding legal force to create borders or new states. BUT it was the first internationally acknowledged document (to my knowledge) that mentioned an 'Arab state'.  Therefore by denying the opportunity to enter into a legal agreement with the sole sovereign, the Jewish nation, Arabs had forsaken the only legal opportunity at creating an Arab state inside the territory of that sovereign nation.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate.


In fact Palestine existed three months before the Mandate commenced.


rylah said:


> The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders,


Indeed, the UN cannot create states, dissolve states, transfer territory, or create borders.

This only shows that false Israeli say so has permeated history. Even people who should know better repeat Israeli say so because that is the only thing they have repeatedly heard their whole life.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the revised version of Arabian 1000 Nights and a Night?
> 
> Falsified information came right in the 1st minute:
> 
> *a. He claims 1947 UN partition plan gave Israel it's legitimacy - FASE *
> The Jewish people were recognized as the sole sovereign nation over all of Palestine including the east bank and Golans 27 years prior to that.
> 
> *b. He claims the Partition Plan ordered to establish a Palestinian state and Israel - FALSE.*
> The text said "Arab state" and "Jewish state" - both states are Palestinian.
> 
> *c. He claims Israel was to be established on "no more than  55% of historic Palestine" - FALSE.*
> The numbers are wrong.
> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate. The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders, as much as Britain had no right to give the East Bank (more than half of the land) to a foreign nation.
> 
> 
> The Partition Plan was just that- a plan, it had no binding legal force to create borders or new states. BUT it was the first internationally acknowledged document (to my knowledge) that mentioned an 'Arab state'.  Therefore by denying the opportunity to enter into a legal agreement with the sole sovereign, the Jewish nation, Arabs had forsaken the only legal opportunity at creating an Arab state inside the territory of that sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In fact Palestine existed three months before the Mandate commenced.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the UN cannot create states, dissolve states, transfer territory, or create borders.
> 
> This only shows that false Israeli say so has permeated history. Even people who should know better repeat Israeli say so because that is the only thing they have repeatedly heard their whole life.
Click to expand...


Indeed, your Disney’fied invention of the “hysterical record” is a hoot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*

It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.

Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.

‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return




Maybe they shouldn’t have had “ March of Return” knowing quite well before they start that Israel will never agree to someday being a minority in their own State. 
  Why was he armed with bandages? Because Israel shot at “ peaceful protesters?”


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return



Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
Click to expand...

It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
Click to expand...



I agree It is their “ farmland” where they were trying destroy the Fences and fire Weapons.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
Click to expand...


You’re not paying attention. The _Great Islamic Tire Burning Riots™️_ are promoted by Islamic Terrorist franchises. The acts of war being perpetrated are done so by your Islamic terrorist heroes.

I get it; you’re just incensed that Joooos exist in what you believe is an Islamist waqf and that the Islamist gee-had to breach the Israeli border has failed. I understand pressing the Islamist agenda is what you are doing but you come across as rather desperate in doing so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
Click to expand...



This is farmland?


Sorry, Chuckles. That’s just another portion of the planet laid waste by Islamism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not paying attention. The _Great Islamic Tire Burning Riots™️_ are promoted by Islamic Terrorist franchises. The acts of war being perpetrated are done so by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> I get it; you’re just incensed that Joooos exist in what you believe is an Islamist waqf and that the Islamist gee-had to breach the Israeli border has failed. I understand pressing the Islamist agenda is what you are doing but you come across as rather desperate in doing so.
Click to expand...

Oh my, all that name calling.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not paying attention. The _Great Islamic Tire Burning Riots™️_ are promoted by Islamic Terrorist franchises. The acts of war being perpetrated are done so by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> I get it; you’re just incensed that Joooos exist in what you believe is an Islamist waqf and that the Islamist gee-had to breach the Israeli border has failed. I understand pressing the Islamist agenda is what you are doing but you come across as rather desperate in doing so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, all that name calling.
Click to expand...


Oh, my.. You’re usual retreat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is farmland?
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. That’s just another portion of the planet laid waste by Islamism.
Click to expand...

Correction, that was farmland. Israel bulldozed it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is farmland?
> 
> 
> Sorry, Chuckles. That’s just another portion of the planet laid waste by Islamism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correction, that was farmland. Israel bulldozed it.
Click to expand...


Correction, You’re as befuddled as always.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic farming.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not paying attention. The _Great Islamic Tire Burning Riots™️_ are promoted by Islamic Terrorist franchises. The acts of war being perpetrated are done so by your Islamic terrorist heroes.
> 
> I get it; you’re just incensed that Joooos exist in what you believe is an Islamist waqf and that the Islamist gee-had to breach the Israeli border has failed. I understand pressing the Islamist agenda is what you are doing but you come across as rather desperate in doing so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, all that name calling.
Click to expand...


Oh my, All that Deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The story of Palestinian People - Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the revised version of Arabian 1000 Nights and a Night?
> 
> Falsified information came right in the 1st minute:
> 
> *a. He claims 1947 UN partition plan gave Israel it's legitimacy - FASE *
> The Jewish people were recognized as the sole sovereign nation over all of Palestine including the east bank and Golans 27 years prior to that.
> 
> *b. He claims the Partition Plan ordered to establish a Palestinian state and Israel - FALSE.*
> The text said "Arab state" and "Jewish state" - both states are Palestinian.
> 
> *c. He claims Israel was to be established on "no more than  55% of historic Palestine" - FALSE.*
> The numbers are wrong.
> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate. The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders, as much as Britain had no right to give the East Bank (more than half of the land) to a foreign nation.
> 
> 
> The Partition Plan was just that- a plan, it had no binding legal force to create borders or new states. BUT it was the first internationally acknowledged document (to my knowledge) that mentioned an 'Arab state'.  Therefore by denying the opportunity to enter into a legal agreement with the sole sovereign, the Jewish nation, Arabs had forsaken the only legal opportunity at creating an Arab state inside the territory of that sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Historic Palestine is a meaningless term, there was no state or nation of Palestine prior to the mandate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In fact Palestine existed three months before the Mandate commenced.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN had no authority of creating new states or borders,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the UN cannot create states, dissolve states, transfer territory, or create borders.
> 
> This only shows that false Israeli say so has permeated history. Even people who should know better repeat Israeli say so because that is the only thing they have repeatedly heard their whole life.
Click to expand...


So where is the document?
Israelis didn't need the UN resolution for legitimacy of their state.
But they naturally wanted the international community to agree with them.

The basic problem of M. Barghouti, as most Palestinian activists,  their history starts sometime at the dawn of WWI, and they run away as quickly as possible from real "Historic Palestine" and the treatment of his people towards the indigenous population.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return*
> 
> It seems that the killing of paramedic Razan al-Najjar in June by an Israeli snipers was not a tragic one-time occurrence. Her colleague, Abdullah al-Qatati, joined her on Friday, hours after a truce brokered by Egypt and the United Nations envoy to the region was declared in Gaza and after two hot nights in which two Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.
> 
> Al-Qattati, 22, was shot in the chest near Rafah in southern Gaza while treating Ali al-Alloul, 55, who was also killed at the same time. The Gaza Health Ministry reported that more than 200 protesters were injured during the 20th weekly protest of the Great March of Return.
> 
> ‘He was armed with bandages’: Israeli forces kill second Palestinian paramedic during Great March of Return
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, when Islamic terrorists create a war zone, you shouldn’t be surprised that Islamic terrorists are going to be shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's war zone. It is Palestinian farmland.
Click to expand...


All this pretense but not one farmer with a grain sack on the scene...


----------



## rylah

Gaza from West to East -غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter


----------



## rylah

Before his death and his clash with the Palestinian Authority,
Mujahid Ahmad al-Zabour sends a message to President Mahmoud Abbas,
"We are not dealers of cannabis or drug dealers, we are out of Balata camp martyrs and prisoners."
غزة الآن - Gaza Now on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Longing and Belonging: Voyages with Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Terrorism in Palestine - Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab - Palestine: The Ongoing Nakba*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir on President Trump's Jerusalem declaration and the state of cinema in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamism - theatre of the absurd


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## Hollie

*"I heart gee-had: And Other Things I'm delighted to Tell You." Interview With Raytheon.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *"I heart gee-had: And Other Things I'm delighted to Tell You." Interview With Raytheon.*


Why do you post all of these Israeli war crimes?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"I heart gee-had: And Other Things I'm delighted to Tell You." Interview With Raytheon.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post all of these Israeli war crimes?
Click to expand...


What war crimes?

Im sure that's another challenge to your nonsensical comments you will sidestep.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.


Lucky thirteen. 

You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
Click to expand...

Like what?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Who was Israel's boogyman before there was a Hamas?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who was Israel's boogyman before there was a Hamas?
Click to expand...


Another of your standard cut and spam tactics.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Al-Shabaka Advisors on the 2014 War on Gaza*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Al-Shabaka:the ICC Potential & Pitfalls for Palestinians*

**


----------



## Taz

The Pals should give up, they can't win.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> The Pals should give up, they can't win.



Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals should give up, they can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
Click to expand...

Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals should give up, they can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
Click to expand...


Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
Click to expand...


From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.

In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals should give up, they can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
Click to expand...

Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
Click to expand...

OK, that says nothing.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
Click to expand...


That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces rearrest Khalida Jarrar, bringing the number of Palestinian lawmakers in Israeli prison to 13.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
> In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.
Click to expand...

That still says nothing.

Got any links?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
> In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That still says nothing.
> 
> Got any links?
Click to expand...

Here's her case, use translation:
Khaleda Jarrar case 2015


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals should give up, they can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
Click to expand...


There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.

But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)

As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucky thirteen.
> 
> You don't have an entitlement to illegal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
> In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That still says nothing.
> 
> Got any links?
Click to expand...


That says that her lawyer objected only on the ground of the interval between the documented crimes and arrest itself. He didn't object the crimes weren't worthy of arrest on grounds of public safety, but that she wasn't dangerous enough because they decided to arrest her only 6 years after the first documented crime.

In other words until another PFLP suicide bomber attacker or another civilian plane hijacked, Khaleda Jarar, according to her lawyer's logic - had impunity from arrest because her investigation went longer than she expected.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals should give up, they can't win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
Click to expand...

I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII. 

As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
> In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That still says nothing.
> 
> Got any links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's her case, use translation:
> Khaleda Jarrar case 2015
Click to expand...

Her alleged violations are still unclear.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists tend to be brutal barbarians, who like the power of Israel's looting, and shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
Click to expand...


Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> From quick review of cases, which are available online, I gather she was accused of 10 crimes; Of which membership in PFLP, promotion of organizations' activity and incitement to violence are only 3.
> 
> In another case against a doctor who went to Syria and participated in Al-Nusra training, while taking part in their field activity, Khaleda's case was brought in the context of 15 months in arrest/jail, as a comparison case of a worse crime.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, that says nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's more substance than any of Your propaganda videos.
> In fact, her lawyer didn't object that her charges had enough rational for arrest on grounds of danger to public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That still says nothing.
> 
> Got any links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here's her case, use translation:
> Khaleda Jarrar case 2015
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Her alleged violations are still unclear.
Click to expand...


Read the case.
Her lawyer didn't even object on the crimes.


----------



## rylah

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
Click to expand...



Israel's main exports to Poland include: gas turbines, packaged medicaments, calcium phosphate, fruits and vegetables and medical instruments.
Israel–Poland relations - Wikipedia


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a zionist, I just think that a people should know when they're beat, like the Poles do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
Click to expand...

The Pals are still a beaten people.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Might is right people like you have no morals, and that's what most Zionists are, they think might is right is cool for Jews, but then when Nazis did might is right on Jews it's so terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
Click to expand...


Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.

It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.

Jews think they're above the law.


----------



## rylah

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
Click to expand...


Who's law?


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs want to wipe out Israel like Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. Both failed. Almost as big a failure as Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
Click to expand...

Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's many Zionists who want to wipe out Arabs, note that we had quite the number of people calling for Arab genocide on this forum, but not for Jewish genocide.
> 
> But, I guess that's okay, or even cool, because Jews deserve to get away with murder (Literally)
> 
> As for your babbling about Poland, Poles were vastly outnumbered, even so Poland won ton of times when outnumbered, even a few times in the 20th Century, like in the Battle of Komarow in 1920, when 1,700 Poles beat 17,500 Soviet forces.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
Click to expand...


Why wouldn't they?
It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.

Your hatred for Arabs is noted.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about who's doing what to whom. The Pals are beaten and should forge a peace, just like Japan did after WWII.
> 
> As for Poland, it's a large drunk tank masquerading as a real country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Playgrounds for Palestine showcasing Palestinian olive oil while author Susan Abulhawa read excerpts from her books.


----------



## Hollie

NO HOLDS BARRED: THE 10-YEAR KLEPTO-DICTATORSHIP OF MAHMOUD ABBAS

No Holds Barred: The 10-year klepto-dictatorship of Mahmoud Abbas

SHMULEY BOTEACH
_





Mahmoud Abbas. (photo credit:" REUTERS)
If Western leaders and intellectuals really care for the rights and welfare of Palestinians, why do they continue to throw their money and support behind an terrorist- sponsoring dictator?

For Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas these past few weeks have been busy. Last Tuesday, he applied for statehood at the UN .

When that failed to get a majority vote in the Security Council, due to the last-minute abstention of Nigeria, he immediately set his eyes on the International Criminal Court, where he is currently applying for membership.

Apparently, he’s making plans now with Jordan to go back to the Security Council for round two.

But that’s not all that’s happening for Mahmoud Abbas. There’s something else on his list, something that he might well choose to celebrate.
_
This coming Friday, January 9, will mark the tenth anniversary of his victory in the Palestinian presidential election. His term was supposed to have ended six years ago, but didn’t – mainly because he’s called off every election since. Which means that this Friday will mark not only the birth of Abbas’ presidency, but also the death of Palestinian democracy. Over the course of the past decade Abbas has completely dismantled whatever democratic process existed in the PA , to the extent that it ever did.


----------



## rylah

*When suicide attack is the model of honor in a society:*


----------



## Taz

Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a fake country, a bunch of fake Jews of different stripes, who made a fake country who's main export is it's misery, oppression, and genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
Click to expand...


Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
is more, or less
akin
 to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?



Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.

Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.

You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pals are still a beaten people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
> is more, or less
> akin
> to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.
Click to expand...

The Indians sucked up their defeat, the Pals should do the same. Look, Israel is about the size of a postage stamp, the arabs have all the rest of the around it. They should go home and stop being such a bunch of babies.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Albanians, and Bosnians were beaten by Serbians, when then came in the U.S.A  to step up to the plate.
> 
> It seems if anybody else did what Israel did, they'd be subjected to much harsh retaliation.
> 
> Jews think they're above the law.
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
> is more, or less
> akin
> to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Indians sucked up their defeat, the Pals should do the same. Look, Israel is about the size of a postage stamp, the arabs have all the rest of the around it. They should go home and stop being such a bunch of babies.
Click to expand...


You don't quite get it, now do you?

Well, I wouldn't expect a Zionist, whom are always of sub-par intelligence, and sub-par morality to grasp anything more than the power of looting, and shooting.

If England came in, and gave Native Americans a land here, and Native Americans started slaughtering the White Americans, putting them behind walls, shooting at them for trying to approach the walls, shooting into White American crowds for protesting etc.

Would that be okay?

Because, that's awfully similar to what happened to the Palestinians, explain that one, why don't you?


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
Click to expand...

Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs think that all of Palestine belongs to them. It doesn't. They got beat. Time to move on. But your hatred for Jews is noted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
> is more, or less
> akin
> to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Indians sucked up their defeat, the Pals should do the same. Look, Israel is about the size of a postage stamp, the arabs have all the rest of the around it. They should go home and stop being such a bunch of babies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't quite get it, now do you?
> 
> Well, I wouldn't expect a Zionist, whom are always of sub-par intelligence, and sub-par morality to grasp anything more than the power of looting, and shooting.
> 
> If England came in, and gave Native Americans a land here, and Native Americans started slaughtering the White Americans, putting them behind walls, shooting at them for trying to approach the walls, shooting into White American crowds for protesting etc.
> 
> Would that be okay?
> 
> Because, that's awfully similar to what happened to the Palestinians, explain that one, why don't you?
Click to expand...

That scenario would never happen except in your fantasy land. Try to come up with something real next time. Please try again.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
Click to expand...


Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.

Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.

Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.

Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.

Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.

Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.

Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
(For the most part, at least)


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't they?
> It was owned more by Arabs, and had an Arab majority, before Israelis came along.
> 
> Your hatred for Arabs is noted.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
> is more, or less
> akin
> to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Indians sucked up their defeat, the Pals should do the same. Look, Israel is about the size of a postage stamp, the arabs have all the rest of the around it. They should go home and stop being such a bunch of babies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't quite get it, now do you?
> 
> Well, I wouldn't expect a Zionist, whom are always of sub-par intelligence, and sub-par morality to grasp anything more than the power of looting, and shooting.
> 
> If England came in, and gave Native Americans a land here, and Native Americans started slaughtering the White Americans, putting them behind walls, shooting at them for trying to approach the walls, shooting into White American crowds for protesting etc.
> 
> Would that be okay?
> 
> Because, that's awfully similar to what happened to the Palestinians, explain that one, why don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That scenario would never happen except in your fantasy land. Try to come up with something real next time. Please try again.
Click to expand...


Actually, more realistically it would be China, or Russia  who would prop up a Mexican fifth column in the U.S.A in the South-West.

If they all kill, oppress, and wall off Americans would you support it?

Because that's what Israel has done to the Palestinians.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
Click to expand...

We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you live in the US, so when are you giving your land back to the Indians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Jews living as a minority in Arab dominated land, and slaughtering the Arab society, and subjecting them to oppression'
> is more, or less
> akin
> to Native Americans living as a minority in White U.S.A dominated land, and slaughtering the White society, and subjecting them to oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Indians sucked up their defeat, the Pals should do the same. Look, Israel is about the size of a postage stamp, the arabs have all the rest of the around it. They should go home and stop being such a bunch of babies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't quite get it, now do you?
> 
> Well, I wouldn't expect a Zionist, whom are always of sub-par intelligence, and sub-par morality to grasp anything more than the power of looting, and shooting.
> 
> If England came in, and gave Native Americans a land here, and Native Americans started slaughtering the White Americans, putting them behind walls, shooting at them for trying to approach the walls, shooting into White American crowds for protesting etc.
> 
> Would that be okay?
> 
> Because, that's awfully similar to what happened to the Palestinians, explain that one, why don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That scenario would never happen except in your fantasy land. Try to come up with something real next time. Please try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, more realistically it would be China, or Russia  who would prop up a Mexican fifth column in the U.S.A in the South-West.
> 
> If they all kill, oppress, and wall off Americans would you support it?
> 
> Because that's what Israel has done to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

The US would stomp them fast. Got anything else, Mr Fantasyland?


----------



## Shusha

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> If England came in, and gave Native Americans a land here,...



You have it wrong again.  All Britain did was recognize the EXISTING right of the Native Americans to sovereignty and self-determination on their historical homeland.  The whole point of indigenous rights is that the rights are inherent and inviolable.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
Click to expand...


Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.

I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?

Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do the Pals do anything positive? Or is it just all bitching and car bombs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
Click to expand...

The Jews won, stop your whining already.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian worth, or lack of worth, shouldn't change the fact that they were living there, when Israelis came to brutalize them in the Nakba, and ever since.
> 
> Palestinians might have not done as much right as Jews, but they've also done less wrong than Jews.
> 
> You have a lot of explaining to do, for Jews like Lazar Kaganovich, Bernie Madoff, Semion Mogilevich, Baruch Goldstein, Jonathan Pollard, Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg,  Harvey Weinstein, Julius Popper, Genrikh Yagoda, Louis Bulchalter, Avraham Stern, Ludwig Fainberg, Ami Popper,  Irv Rubin, Jared Fogle, Roman Polanski, Leon Trotsky, Jakub Berman,  Salomon Morel, Meyer Lansky, Bugsie Siegel, Yair Klein, Scott Rothstein, William Rapfogel.
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
Click to expand...


Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?

I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.

People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Haidar Eid, a professor of post-colonial and post-modern literature at Al Aqsa University, in Gaza.

*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cultist on Death Cult TV preaching the Death Cult party line.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


>



Nice hijab. That poor woman has been abused her entire life.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

They want peace: LOL

“*Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.*”
- Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem
(Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, _Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger_ [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p. 47)

And he is not alone, the Arabs all around, including the Arabs that claim to have magically become Palestinians have openly stated their goals to each other, the press many times choose to ignore this:

“*I personally wish that the Jews do drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.*”
- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
(_Akhbar al-Yom_, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” _Middle East Quarterly_, Fall 2011)

“*If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.*”
- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
(_New York Times_, August 2, 1948)

“*We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.*”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, _The Road to War_[Pelican Books, 1969], p. 59)

“*We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.*”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, _Six Days of War_[Oxford University Press, 2002], p. 42)

“*With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”*
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” _Israel Studies_, Summer 2003, p. 79)

“*The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…*” (Article 8).
- PLO Phased Plan
(Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1974, p. 224)

“*Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.*”
- Yasser Arafat
(_El Mundo_, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; _The Times_, UK, August 5, 1980)

*The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).*
- Hamas Covenant
(Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1993, pp. 122-34)

“*It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.*”
- Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias
(United Press International, March 24, 1992)

“*If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.*”
- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
(_Daily Star_, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)

“*The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.*”
- Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)

“*By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.*”
- Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
(Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)

“*Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.*” 
 - Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

AzogtheDefiler said:


> They want peace: LOL
> 
> “*Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.*”
> - Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem
> (Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, _Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger_ [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p. 47)
> 
> And he is not alone, the Arabs all around, including the Arabs that claim to have magically become Palestinians have openly stated their goals to each other, the press many times choose to ignore this:
> 
> “*I personally wish that the Jews do drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.*”
> - Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
> (_Akhbar al-Yom_, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” _Middle East Quarterly_, Fall 2011)
> 
> “*If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.*”
> - Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
> (_New York Times_, August 2, 1948)
> 
> “*We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.*”
> - Syrian government broadcast
> (Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, _The Road to War_[Pelican Books, 1969], p. 59)
> 
> “*We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.*”
> - Syrian government broadcast
> (Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, _Six Days of War_[Oxford University Press, 2002], p. 42)
> 
> “*With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”*
> - Egyptian government broadcast
> (Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” _Israel Studies_, Summer 2003, p. 79)
> 
> “*The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…*” (Article 8).
> - PLO Phased Plan
> (Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1974, p. 224)
> 
> “*Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.*”
> - Yasser Arafat
> (_El Mundo_, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; _The Times_, UK, August 5, 1980)
> 
> *The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).*
> - Hamas Covenant
> (Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1993, pp. 122-34)
> 
> “*It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.*”
> - Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias
> (United Press International, March 24, 1992)
> 
> “*If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.*”
> - Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
> (_Daily Star_, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)
> 
> “*The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.*”
> - Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
> (Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)
> 
> “*By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.*”
> - Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
> (Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)
> 
> “*Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.*”
> - Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza



Yet, on this forum  pushing for Arab genocide remarks are present, and pushing for Jewish genocide remarks are not.

See below, where many Zionists on this very forum promote genocide upon Arabs.

4 million Muslims killed by U.S.A since 1990?


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have 201 Nobel Prize winners, the whole arab world has won it 6 times, and funny enough, 4 of those times were for peace, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
Click to expand...

Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians didn't plot the Lavon Affair terrorism against the U.S.A.
> 
> Palestinians didn't use Jonathan Pollard against the U.S.A as a spy.
> 
> Palestinians didn't bomb the U.S.A Liberty, a U.S.A ship.
> 
> Palestinians didn't sell U.S.A secrets to the Soviets as Julius, and Ethel Rosenberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't try to give the Drug Cartel enemies of the U.S.A a Nuclear Submarine like Ludwig Fainberg.
> 
> Palestinians didn't train the Drug Cartel enemies of America like Yair Klein did.
> 
> Explain why it's Jews which are seen as honorary Americans, but Palestinians are despised by Americans.
> (For the most part, at least)
> 
> 
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
Click to expand...


I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> We dislike them because they are muslim, and sharia law is barbaric and an insult to women everywhere. The eat sitting on the floor off a communal plate with their bare hands, just like animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
Click to expand...

You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually some Palestinians are also Christian, or Druze.
> 
> I'd like to hear how Jews are inherently more moral than Arabs in any way or form?
> 
> Jews for their small numbers are far more revolting.
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
Click to expand...


I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Be honest, you love the smell of camel pussy.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews won, stop your whining already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
Click to expand...



LOL. 1.6bn Muslims. 16 mil Jews. Yep Jews are ethnic cleansing. LMAO. Dude is a comedian.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be honest, you love the smell of camel pussy.
Click to expand...



What does this have to do with Palestine is a victim of Israel brutality?

I'm not a Muslim, if you weren't so retarded, you'd notice that my name celebrates Jan III Sobieski's defeat of Islamic Turkish forces at Vienna in 1683.

But, honestly, I do find Jews more anti-Polish, and more destructive than Muslims.


----------



## member

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be honest, you love the smell of camel pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with Palestine is a victim of Israel brutality?
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, if you weren't so retarded, you'd notice that my name celebrates Jan III Sobieski's defeat of Islamic Turkish forces at Vienna in 1683.
> 
> But, honestly, I do find Jews more anti-Polish, and more destructive than Muslims.
Click to expand...


_*"I do find Jews more anti-Polish, and more destructive than Muslims."*_





_We tank you!_​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Taz said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do Jews still whine about the Holocaust?
> 
> I think we must defeat Zionism the way we defeated Nazism.
> 
> People like you aren't learning your lessons, and need to be punked for the barbaric savages you Zionists are.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be honest, you love the smell of camel pussy.
Click to expand...


He wishes !!!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want peace: LOL
> 
> “*Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.*”
> - Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem
> (Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, _Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger_ [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p. 47)
> 
> And he is not alone, the Arabs all around, including the Arabs that claim to have magically become Palestinians have openly stated their goals to each other, the press many times choose to ignore this:
> 
> “*I personally wish that the Jews do drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.*”
> - Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
> (_Akhbar al-Yom_, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” _Middle East Quarterly_, Fall 2011)
> 
> “*If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.*”
> - Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
> (_New York Times_, August 2, 1948)
> 
> “*We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.*”
> - Syrian government broadcast
> (Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, _The Road to War_[Pelican Books, 1969], p. 59)
> 
> “*We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.*”
> - Syrian government broadcast
> (Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, _Six Days of War_[Oxford University Press, 2002], p. 42)
> 
> “*With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”*
> - Egyptian government broadcast
> (Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” _Israel Studies_, Summer 2003, p. 79)
> 
> “*The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…*” (Article 8).
> - PLO Phased Plan
> (Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1974, p. 224)
> 
> “*Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.*”
> - Yasser Arafat
> (_El Mundo_, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; _The Times_, UK, August 5, 1980)
> 
> *The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).*
> - Hamas Covenant
> (Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in _Journal of Palestine Studies_, Summer 1993, pp. 122-34)
> 
> “*It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.*”
> - Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias
> (United Press International, March 24, 1992)
> 
> “*If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.*”
> - Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
> (_Daily Star_, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)
> 
> “*The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.*”
> - Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
> (Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)
> 
> “*By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.*”
> - Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
> (Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)
> 
> “*Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.*”
> - Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, on this forum  pushing for Arab genocide remarks are present, and pushing for Jewish genocide remarks are not.
> 
> See below, where many Zionists on this very forum promote genocide upon Arabs.
> 
> 4 million Muslims killed by U.S.A since 1990?
Click to expand...


It’s a start.


----------



## Taz

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being such a sore loser and go kiss a carpet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, why would you think that  I was a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be in love with carpet kissers. Is if their lack of soap that turns you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually don't care for Muslims, but I also don't care for ethnic cleansing like Israel has done since the mid - late 1940's to Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Be honest, you love the smell of camel pussy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with Palestine is a victim of Israel brutality?
> 
> I'm not a Muslim, if you weren't so retarded, you'd notice that my name celebrates Jan III Sobieski's defeat of Islamic Turkish forces at Vienna in 1683.
> 
> But, honestly, I do find Jews more anti-Polish, and more destructive than Muslims.
Click to expand...

Israel is willing to make peace with the Pals. It's the Pals who don't want peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Ahed. 

"Israeli prison cuisine is so good, I couldn't put my fork down"


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



There's this creepy "thing" with Arab-Moslem men and teenage girls.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>












yes, yes.....your video.....wow ! the palestinians... having a good time like they do in vegas....!!!! dancing, face-painting, sitting and relaxing.....it really is a farce-video....did they all TOO vote for the animalistic terrorists as their gov't ? 



no matter what you pop up

 here to make them seem normal  -- the terrorists stand out and over-shadow everything (_a.f.a.i.c_).  post all the festival fun and theatre group twirls all you want............

who's their gov't ?  

.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> **





P F Tinmore said:


> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> **



Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed isn’t?
Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,

I have to agree with you.

I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."

"In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*." 

*IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]

I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> "In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> *IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]
> 
> I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Zionism.  The Developer and Protection of the Jewish State In what is now Israel
    That’s “ racist”?  GOOD !!


----------



## RoccoR

tRE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> [
> Zionism.  The Developer and Protection of the Jewish State In what is now Israel
> That’s “ racist”?  GOOD !!


*(CLARIFICATION)*

NO it is NOT Racism...

v/r
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> tRE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Zionism.  The Developer and Protection of the Jewish State In what is now Israel
> That’s “ racist”?  GOOD !!
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFICATION)*
> 
> NO it is NOT Racism...
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...


I know. Concerned about my state of mind. For a minute I was pretending I was a Pro Palestinian Groupi (. JUST.  KIDDING ).


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> "In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> *IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]
> 
> I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How can you deny something that is so blatantly in your face obvious?

Your shill capacity is amazing.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> "In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> *IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]
> 
> I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you deny something that is so blatantly in your face obvious?
> 
> Your shill capacity is amazing.
Click to expand...


Zionism; A movement for and the reestablishment” of a Jewish State in which is now Israel
    The above is synonymous with “ racism?’  Yet you see nothing wrong with a Palestinian No Israelis Allowed Policy?
     How can a Pro Palestinian have such a Double Standard? ( Its obvious). 
      Your shill capacity is amazing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> "In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> *IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]
> 
> I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you deny something that is so blatantly in your face obvious?
> 
> Your shill capacity is amazing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zionism; A movement for and the reestablishment” of a Jewish State in which is now Israel
> The above is synonymous with “ racism?’  Yet you see nothing wrong with a Palestinian No Israelis Allowed Policy?
> How can a Pro Palestinian have such a Double Standard? ( Its obvious).
> Your shill capacity is amazing.
Click to expand...

Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

•  Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine

•  Abbas adds 'hard labor' to punishment for Palestinians who sell land to Israelis

•  “In the final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli -- civilian or soldier -- on our lands.” 

•  In April 2009, a Chief Islamic Judge of the Palestinian Authority reminded of an existing fatwa that bans Palestinians from selling property to Jews, which is considered high treason and punishable by death.
Abu Toameh, Khaled (2009-04-01). "PA: Death Penalty for Those who Sell Land to Jews"



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.


*(COMMENT)*

You're kidding me --- right?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> •  Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine
> 
> •  Abbas adds 'hard labor' to punishment for Palestinians who sell land to Israelis
> 
> •  “In the final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli -- civilian or soldier -- on our lands.”
> 
> •  In April 2009, a Chief Islamic Judge of the Palestinian Authority reminded of an existing fatwa that bans Palestinians from selling property to Jews, which is considered high treason and punishable by death.
> Abu Toameh, Khaled (2009-04-01). "PA: Death Penalty for Those who Sell Land to Jews"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You're kidding me --- right?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.

I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews.



You try to deny the most evident:

*PA: DEATH PENALTY FOR THOSE WHO SELL LAND TO JEWS*
*Authority's Chief Islamic Judge issues warning after reports of US Jews buying land from Palestinians.*

The Palestinian Authority has issued yet another warning to Palestinians against selling their homes or properties to Jews, saying those who violate the order would be accused of "high treason" - a charge that carries the death penalty. The latest warning was issued on Wednesday by the Chief [Islamic] Judge of the Palestinian Authority, Sheikh Tayseer Rajab Tamimi, who reminded the Palestinians of an existing fatwa [religious decree] than bans them from selling property to Jews.






( Chief Sharia Judge - Tayysir Tamimi)


----------



## rylah

Q.Israeli and any other Jew is referred to as 'the enemy' in Palestinian law.
Where's the distinction?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I rarely find that the pro-Arab Palestinians movements have and understanding of the relationship between Zionism and Apartheid.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslim-Americans discuss attitudes toward Israel*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent Post!!!       “ Zionism” was referred to as” Racist” ( the fact that it even exists) but a “ Palestinian State” where No Israelis are allowed aren’t? “
> Apartheid “ with a Country that has Arabs but a “Palestinian State” wouldn’t be?  Please post more of this garbage; looking forward to it !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the mid-'70's, the General Assembly (GA) passed Resolution A/RES/3379 (XXX) Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, in which the GA "_Determines _that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> "In 1989, the General Assembly requested the International Law Commission to address the question of establishing an international criminal court.  Three years later, the Assembly requested the Commission to elaborate a statute of such a court as a matter of priority."  (From the “EVALUATING THE ICC REGIME: THE LIKELY IMPACT ON STATES AND INTERNATIONAL LAW”)  This evaluation leads directly to the creation of the Rome Statutes.  While the Rome Statutes would not go into effect for more than a decade, the fundamentals of the legal meaning of "Apartheid" were defined almost immediately.  That lead to a very rare event in which the GA passed Resolution A/RES/46/86, Same Title, which " Decides to revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975;" *REVERSING* the decision that *Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination*."
> 
> *IF* there is no racism (racial discrimination) *THEN* there is no crime of "Apartheid."  [See:  Article 7 Crimes Against Humanity Para (2h) Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court]
> 
> I find it absolutely amazing how often pro-Arab Palestinians try and pass-off this fraudulent racial logic for reasoning to chastise Israel when it should be the pro-Arab Palestinians that should be chastised for intentionally denying obvious implications that were necessary to be deduced in order to find the correct solution _(people who twist facts to appear to be the aggrieved party_).
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you deny something that is so blatantly in your face obvious?
> 
> Your shill capacity is amazing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Zionism; A movement for and the reestablishment” of a Jewish State in which is now Israel
> The above is synonymous with “ racism?’  Yet you see nothing wrong with a Palestinian No Israelis Allowed Policy?
> How can a Pro Palestinian have such a Double Standard? ( Its obvious).
> Your shill capacity is amazing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.
Click to expand...


Is that why Abbas is stating No Israelis Allowed???? Denying Rylah’s link?  Talk about a schill carrying water for the Palestinians!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Q.Israeli and any other Jew is referred to as 'the enemy' in Palestinian law.
> Where's the distinction?


Those who do not bring Israel with them are welcome.

Those who do, aren't.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q.Israeli and any other Jew is referred to as 'the enemy' in Palestinian law.
> Where's the distinction?
> 
> 
> 
> Those who do not bring Israel with them are welcome.
> 
> Those who do, aren't.
Click to expand...


Yawn..... Notice there is no comment about the “ No Israelis Allowed “ Policy or killing / sentencing Palestinians to hard labor who sell land to Israelis????  
   Talk about deflection and being a shill


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q.Israeli and any other Jew is referred to as 'the enemy' in Palestinian law.
> Where's the distinction?
> 
> 
> 
> Those who do not bring Israel with them are welcome.
> 
> Those who do, aren't.
Click to expand...

There's no such distinction,
You have death penalty for people who sell property to any Jew by definition,
any Jew is considered an enemy by the Palestinian Sharia Courts.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q.Israeli and any other Jew is referred to as 'the enemy' in Palestinian law.
> Where's the distinction?
> 
> 
> 
> Those who do not bring Israel with them are welcome.
> 
> Those who do, aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's no such distinction,
> You have death penalty for people who sell property to any Jew by definition,
> any Jew is considered an enemy by the Palestinian Sharia Courts.
Click to expand...


I guarantee you there will be no comment RE; No Israelis Allowed or Death Penalty for those who sell land to Israelis. He’s too busy being the water boy for the Pro  Palestinian Team


----------



## member

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You try to deny the most evident:
> 
> *PA: DEATH PENALTY FOR THOSE WHO SELL LAND TO JEWS*
> *Authority's Chief Islamic Judge issues warning after reports of US Jews buying land from Palestinians.*
> 
> The Palestinian Authority has issued yet another warning to Palestinians against selling their homes or properties to Jews, saying those who violate the order would be accused of "high treason" - a charge that carries the death penalty. The latest warning was issued on Wednesday by the Chief [Islamic] Judge of the Palestinian Authority, Sheikh Tayseer Rajab Tamimi, who reminded the Palestinians of an existing fatwa [religious decree] than bans them from selling property to Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( Chief Sharia Judge - Tayysir Tamimi)
Click to expand...





*Chief Tribal Judge Sheik Tayysir.............*

fuck him.  he's just a primitive bastard............



...he's why the muslim world is what it is.  backwards. He's no different than every taliban miscreant that lives and breathes on planet earth...............he's just dressed a little differently...  the taliban have more of a filthy beastly look....but nonetheless....they're joined at the brain.........


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.



Couldn't you also say, "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them" and thus try to justify a lifetime of hard labor for anyone selling land to Arab Palestinians because they are the "enemy"?  

Seems to me that there are a different set of standards for Israel than for Arabs.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you also say, "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them" and thus try to justify a lifetime of hard labor for anyone selling land to Arab Palestinians because they are the "enemy"?
> 
> Seems to me that there are a different set of standards for Israel than for Arabs.
Click to expand...


There will be NO response; Typical of the Pro Pal Mentality and Double Standard.  Watching those videos I started to laugh.,,   THEY want “ Right of Return?”


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you also say, "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them" and thus try to justify a lifetime of hard labor for anyone selling land to Arab Palestinians because they are the "enemy"?
> 
> Seems to me that there are a different set of standards for Israel than for Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will be NO response; Typical of the Pro Pal Mentality and Double Standard.  Watching those videos I started to laugh.,,   THEY want “ Right of Return?”
Click to expand...



All the rights for Arabs, and none for Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you also say, "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them" and thus try to justify a lifetime of hard labor for anyone selling land to Arab Palestinians because they are the "enemy"?
> 
> Seems to me that there are a different set of standards for Israel than for Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will be NO response; Typical of the Pro Pal Mentality and Double Standard.  Watching those videos I started to laugh.,,   THEY want “ Right of Return?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> All the rights for Arabs, and none for Jews.
Click to expand...


That’s O.K.  “ Right of Return” is DOA !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you also say, "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them" and thus try to justify a lifetime of hard labor for anyone selling land to Arab Palestinians because they are the "enemy"?
> 
> Seems to me that there are a different set of standards for Israel than for Arabs.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> "the problem with Arabs is that they always bring Palestine with them"


The Palestinians don't bring Palestine anywhere. Palestine was already there when foreigners plopped Israel down on top of Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians don't being Palestine anywhere.



Masterful concision.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> •  Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine
> 
> •  Abbas adds 'hard labor' to punishment for Palestinians who sell land to Israelis
> 
> •  “In the final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli -- civilian or soldier -- on our lands.”
> 
> •  In April 2009, a Chief Islamic Judge of the Palestinian Authority reminded of an existing fatwa that bans Palestinians from selling property to Jews, which is considered high treason and punishable by death.
> Abu Toameh, Khaled (2009-04-01). "PA: Death Penalty for Those who Sell Land to Jews"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You're kidding me --- right?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
Click to expand...



Love ❤️ your post!  Israel Is the “enemy” ? The Israelis feel the same way about the Palestinians; translation “No Right Of Return” See how that works???!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive*

Nestled in the hilltops of the central occupied West Bank, an ancient Palestinian Christian village is gearing up for a fight against the Israeli occupation that it has all too much experience with.

In late July, the village of Aboud, whose existence dates back two millennia, was handed an order by Israeli authorities confiscating some 324 dunums (80 acres) of land shared by Aboud and its neighboring village al-Lubban al-Gharbiya.

Israeli authorities confiscated the land under the pretext that it would be used to build an Israeli-only road between the two illegal settlements of Beit Arye and Ofarim — both of which are built on the lands of Aboud.

“More than 45% of the villagers work in the agricultural sector,” Mas’ad said. “If they lose this land, it will not only affect their personal livelihoods and that of their families, but also the entire economy of the village.”

Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive


----------



## Hollie

Gaza Christians sense pressure to convert to Islam


GAZA (Reuters) - Two conversions that a Christian family says were forced have strained relations between a tiny Palestinian Christian community in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip and the Muslim majority.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Gaza Christians sense pressure to convert to Islam
> 
> 
> GAZA (Reuters) - Two conversions that a Christian family says were forced have strained relations between a tiny Palestinian Christian community in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip and the Muslim majority.


That was 6 years ago. Got anything more recent?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive*
> 
> Nestled in the hilltops of the central occupied West Bank, an ancient Palestinian Christian village is gearing up for a fight against the Israeli occupation that it has all too much experience with.
> 
> In late July, the village of Aboud, whose existence dates back two millennia, was handed an order by Israeli authorities confiscating some 324 dunums (80 acres) of land shared by Aboud and its neighboring village al-Lubban al-Gharbiya.
> 
> Israeli authorities confiscated the land under the pretext that it would be used to build an Israeli-only road between the two illegal settlements of Beit Arye and Ofarim — both of which are built on the lands of Aboud.
> 
> “More than 45% of the villagers work in the agricultural sector,” Mas’ad said. “If they lose this land, it will not only affect their personal livelihoods and that of their families, but also the entire economy of the village.”
> 
> Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive




Jews building roads.  The HORROR!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive*
> 
> Nestled in the hilltops of the central occupied West Bank, an ancient Palestinian Christian village is gearing up for a fight against the Israeli occupation that it has all too much experience with.
> 
> In late July, the village of Aboud, whose existence dates back two millennia, was handed an order by Israeli authorities confiscating some 324 dunums (80 acres) of land shared by Aboud and its neighboring village al-Lubban al-Gharbiya.
> 
> Israeli authorities confiscated the land under the pretext that it would be used to build an Israeli-only road between the two illegal settlements of Beit Arye and Ofarim — both of which are built on the lands of Aboud.
> 
> “More than 45% of the villagers work in the agricultural sector,” Mas’ad said. “If they lose this land, it will not only affect their personal livelihoods and that of their families, but also the entire economy of the village.”
> 
> Drowning among Israeli settlements, an ancient Christian village in Palestine struggles to survive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews building roads.  The HORROR!!
Click to expand...

You missed the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*'This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings', by Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Ghada karmi on the dangers of Zionism*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

As long as the Arab Palestinian continue to pose a viable threat [*Artcile 2(4) UN Charter*] to the existence of State of Israel, the Israelis will continue to take such measures as necessary to secure and protect the territorial integrity or political independence from the violence incited by the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP).



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> •  Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine
> 
> •  Abbas adds 'hard labor' to punishment for Palestinians who sell land to Israelis
> 
> •  “In the final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli -- civilian or soldier -- on our lands.”
> 
> •  In April 2009, a Chief Islamic Judge of the Palestinian Authority reminded of an existing fatwa that bans Palestinians from selling property to Jews, which is considered high treason and punishable by death.
> Abu Toameh, Khaled (2009-04-01). "PA: Death Penalty for Those who Sell Land to Jews"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine has no discriminatory laws. Israel does.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You're kidding me --- right?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is an old Jordanian law, still valid in the West Bank, that forbids land sales to Israelis and their agents. This makes sense because Israel is an enemy.
> 
> I haven't heard of any restriction on non Israeli Jews. The problem with Jews buying land is that they always bring Israel with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Love ❤️ your post!  Israel Is the “enemy” ? The Israelis feel the same way about the Palestinians; translation “No Right Of Return” See how that works???!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In some respects, the word "enemy" is invalid in the descriptive context between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinian.  The conflict is a matter of "fear" in response to a "threat" as viewed by the higher order of political understanding.

✪  Israel faces the fear that if the Arab Palestinians establish a dominance over Israel, then the safe-haven which Israel represents for the Jewish people and culture will be destroyed.  To overcome that fear, Israel develops a strong capability to protect and defend its national interest.  This higher self-confidence _(in turn)_ promotes a higher level of confidence is an intangible asset to both the citizens and the external entities which invest in the Israel of tomorrow. 

✪  The threat is based on the historical pattern of hostile activity against Israel _(since the the time of  the recommendation for partition was adopted)_ that the Arab Palestinians have supported _(and continue to support)_ in nearly every aspect in the arena of controlled conventional and unconventional warfare.   

•  The threat is compounded by the associate (by not centrally controlled) and independently operating Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.

•  This threat is complicated by both a general population of Arab Palestinians and external donors that are financing of terrorists _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running.  

•  This threat is made more complex when the components are envolved in a regime of unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
There is no true enemy.  The apprehension is alarmed by the HoAP that strive towards enhancing its struggle.  AND, the HoAP are convinced that this Armed struggle *is the only way* to liberate Palestine.  This belief is generationally through family and institutions; like a contagion → a lethal virus.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*
> 
> **



So what?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*



No reason to accept that as true.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*

The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship. 

In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.

The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine



The islamist colonialist project has no conception of democratic ideals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib repudiates views of Israel lobby group J Street*

Tlaib expressed clear public support for people who engage in the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement for Palestinian rights.

“I‘m an ACLU card member,” she said, referring to the American Civil Liberties Union, a group that defends First Amendment rights. “I stand by the rights of people who support BDS. Allow the students to be a part of the movement. I am so proud of the Center for Constitutional Rights in support of student movements for BDS. If you don’t support freedom of speech, you’re in the wrong country.”

Tlaib’s emphasis here is on the right to engage in BDS activism, rather than expressing explicit support for the movement’s tactics. This may not go as far as some would like, however this addresses what her role would be as a lawmaker, which is to protect against unconstitutional efforts to curb free speech rights.

*Rashida Tlaib repudiates views of Israel lobby group J Street*


----------



## Hollie

Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism

*Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*

At Israeli Apartheid Week, campus haters claim to be fighting “colonialism” by fighting Jews. Columbia University’s Center for 'Palestine' Studies, dedicated to a country that doesn’t exist and which has produced nothing worth studying except terrorism, features diatribes such as 'Palestine' Re-Covered: Reading a Settler Colonial Landscape”. This word salad is a toxic stew of historical revisionism being used to justify the Muslim settler colonization of the indigenous Jewish population.

You can’t colonize 'Palestine' because you can't colonize colonizers. The Muslim population in Israel is a foreign colonist population. The indigenous Jewish population can resettle its own country, but it can’t colonize it.

Muslims invaded, conquered and settled Israel. They forced their language and laws on the population. That's the definition of colonialism. You can't colonize and then complain that you're being colonized when the natives take back the power that you stole from them.

There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.

There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this. 

The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.

The only reason there’s a debate about the Temple Mount is because Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem and ordered a mosque built on a holy Jewish site. The only reason there’s a debate about East Jerusalem is because invading Muslim armies seized half the city in 1948, bombed synagogues and ethnically cleansed the Jewish population to achieve an artificial Muslim settler majority.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to accept that as true.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine



The above just confirms they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  Let them keep knocking their heads against the wall; It won’t get them anywhere.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Let them keep knocking their heads against the wall




I don't know about you, but I would be quite willing to lend the antisemites a hand with this one.

 Their neck muscles, alone, might not be able to muster sufficient force.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Hollie

Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism

*Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*

There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.

There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this. 

The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.

The only reason there’s a debate about the Temple Mount is because Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem and ordered a mosque built on a holy Jewish site. The only reason there’s a debate about East Jerusalem is because invading Muslim armies seized half the city in 1948, bombed synagogues and ethnically cleansed the Jewish population to achieve an artificial Muslim settler majority.


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism
> 
> *Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*
> 
> There are Muslims in Israel for the same reason that there are Muslims in India. They are the remnants of a Muslim colonial regime that displaced and oppressed the indigenous non-Muslim population.
> 
> There are no serious historical arguments to be made against any of this.
> 
> The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented. The Muslim settlements fit every historical template of colonialism complete with importing a foreign population and social system that was imposed on the native population. Until they began losing wars to the indigenous Jewish population, the Muslim settlers were not ashamed of their colonial past, they gloried in it. Their historical legacy was based on seizing indigenous sites, appropriating them and renaming them after the new conquerors.
> 
> The only reason there’s a debate about the Temple Mount is because Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem and ordered a mosque built on a holy Jewish site. The only reason there’s a debate about East Jerusalem is because invading Muslim armies seized half the city in 1948, bombed synagogues and ethnically cleansed the Jewish population to achieve an artificial Muslim settler majority.





 *"The Muslim conquests and invasions are well-documented."*

till this very second........the 

 documentation continues...













​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine




Any political program which frames the problem in such a one-sided way will not result in a society which is just, free and equal and should therefore be rejected outright.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any political program which frames the problem in such a one-sided way will not result in a society which is just, free and equal and should therefore be rejected outright.[/o
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine



  The claim is that Israelis _*FAVOR *_ being the minority and in effect have no voice??  Talk about being desperate


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to accept that as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The above just confirms they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  Let them keep knocking their heads against the wall; It won’t get them anywhere.
Click to expand...

*The Nakba, Refugees and International Law Session *

**


----------



## Hollie

Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism

*Islam is Colonialism, 'Palestine' is Colonialism*

The only Muslim claim to Jerusalem or to any other part of Israel is based purely on the enterprise of colonial violence. There is no Muslim claim to Israel based on anything other than colonialism, invasion and settlement.

Israel is littered with Omar mosques, including one built in the courtyard of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, because Islam is a colonial entity whose mosques testify to their invasive origins by celebrating colonialism as their true religion. The faith of Islam is the sworn religion of the sword.

Islam is a religion of colonialism that spread through invasion, settlement and conquest. Its caliphs, from the original invaders, including Omar, to the current Caliph of ISIS, wielded and wield religious authority in the service of the Islamic colonial enterprise. 

Allah is the patron deity of colonialism. Jihad is just colonialism in Arabic. Islamic theology is nothing but the manifest destiny of the Muslim conquest of the world, colonial settler enterprises dressed up in the filmy trappings of religion appropriated from the culture of conquered Jewish and Christian minorities. Muslim terrorism is a reactionary colonial response to the liberation movements of the indigenous Jewish population.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to accept that as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The above just confirms they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  Let them keep knocking their heads against the wall; It won’t get them anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Nakba, Refugees and International Law Session *
> 
> **
Click to expand...



Could the speaker be any more inept?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Settlers chopped down 700 vines in his vineyard" that he only planted last week in a futile attempt to lay claim to land that isn't his?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



10 Most Common Types of Insurance Fraud


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The two of us must be referring to something different from the events of the evening on Saturday, 25 May.



rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tuncated video...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10 Most Common Types of Insurance Fraud
Click to expand...

*(COMMON)*

•  The report of this incident is about about one-onehundreth _(= 0.012)_ of a square km.  _(But 700 vines sound more impressive.  We call it sensationalizing!)_
•  This incident involves the family of Ahed Tamimi; the infamous rabble rouserand juvenile delinquent.
•  The incident that I am aware of translated the graffiti as saying: 
■  “Returning everywhere”
■  “No to agricultural terrorism.”​
There is more to the events of that day then is told here.  There used to be a well-known journalist (Paul Harvey) that was famous for saying:  And now the rest of the story.

While the local Israeli Settlers admit that they took a chainsaw and chopped the vines above the roots, these very same settlers planted over a thousand trees this year, just north of Hebron.  The event, relatively small in scale, was an expression of their displeasure at the damage inflected to well over a thousand (1000) acres of agriculture land and the associated farming infrastructure.

I'm finding it very hard to shed much of a tear for the Arab Palestinians _(the worlds current reigning champion victim and drama queens)_.

OK, so the Area "C" Israeli Settlers, not known for their kindness towards the Arab Palestinians, got a little rowdy!  This is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things; there is a huge difference between 1000 acres _(burned land)_ and 0.012 acres _(of vineyard)_.  _(The average size of a crop circle is about 0.1 of an acre or 10 times larger than the damage done to the vineyard.)_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>




does hamass have a facebook page pt sinkmore? does it look like this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi: The Israeli Security Establishment is Terrified of a Nonviolent Palestinian Movement*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*



With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your pathology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rashid Khalidi: The Israeli Security Establishment is Terrified of a Nonviolent Palestinian Movement*



That doesn’t make sense as Islamic terrorism and gee-had are based upon violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
Click to expand...

Who do you have on your side?

Post somebody.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who do you have on your side?
> 
> Post somebody.
Click to expand...


You obviously don’t understand that the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back loons you worship are an embarrassment to thinking humans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who do you have on your side?
> 
> Post somebody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously don’t understand that the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back loons you worship are an embarrassment to thinking humans.
Click to expand...

No need to dodge. Just post one of your best and brightest.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.*

Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.

Today, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place. In a vivid example of this, Israel is currently in the midst of demolishing the entire community of Umm al-Hiran in southern Israel and evicting its Palestinian residents, who are citizens of the state. In its place, Israel plans to build a town for Jews, called “Hiran.”

The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who do you have on your side?
> 
> Post somebody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously don’t understand that the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back loons you worship are an embarrassment to thinking humans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need to dodge. Just post one of your best and brightest.
Click to expand...


Your sidestepping is a rather weak defense for your loopy, conspiracy theory addled heroes.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.*
> 
> Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.
> 
> Today, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place. In a vivid example of this, Israel is currently in the midst of demolishing the entire community of Umm al-Hiran in southern Israel and evicting its Palestinian residents, who are citizens of the state. In its place, Israel plans to build a town for Jews, called “Hiran.”
> 
> The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.



What Arab-Moslem land was “stolen”?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Paramedic Razan Ashraf al-Najjar, 21 was assassinated*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to accept that as true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine*
> 
> The two-state solution, which is basically an unfair solution, is clearly dead. Israel buried it deep under its colonial settlement policies in the territories that were supposed to become the independent Palestinian state. Israel has imposed a single repressive regime that extends over all the Palestinians who live in historic Palestine, including those with Israeli citizenship.
> 
> In view of these dangerous developments, and, more important, based on the values of justice, freedom and democracy, we contend that the only way to achieve justice and permanent peace is dismantling the colonial apartheid regime in historic Palestine and the establishment of a new political system based on full civil equality, and on full implementation of the Palestinian refugees’ Right of Return, and the building of the required mechanisms to correct the historical grievances of the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist colonialist project.
> 
> The political program of the Campaign for One Democratic State in Historic Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The above just confirms they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  Let them keep knocking their heads against the wall; It won’t get them anywhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *The Nakba, Refugees and International Law Session *
> 
> **
Click to expand...


YAWN.,, Not going to happen. The Israelis will never be a minority in their own Country and be under Palestinian rule.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_

This is merely a form of propaganda to reinforce that which those who are predisposed to believe.  It is a creative mix between the messages intended to draw sympathy and that which is intended to influence the international observes outside the region.



P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.*
> 
> Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.
> 
> Today, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place. In a vivid example of this, Israel is currently in the midst of demolishing the entire community of Umm al-Hiran in southern Israel and evicting its Palestinian residents, who are citizens of the state. In its place, Israel plans to build a town for Jews, called “Hiran.”
> 
> The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.


*(COMMENT)*

This is sometimes called "bandwidth sprinkles" _(ie steal, revoke, destroy)_ and "termite allegations" _(damned if you do and damned if you don't)_ where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against.  It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response → to prove emotional abuse, political activated claims, unnecessary commercial restriction and intentionally imposed adverse economic consequences are false.

Yes, examples of each type of these batch public claims and allegations can be raised.  But presented in this rolling batch form the allegations and claims are intentionally made:

Vague;
Argumentative;
Narratives on the issues;
Same claims made in various alternative forms and repetitive;
Assuming facts, not in evidence;
(MANIPULATION OF CENTRAL ISSUE)

The Arab Palestinians want the application of specific international laws and conventions to be selectively enforced and discretionary → always applied in favor of the Arab Palestinian.  They always claim first right to charge Israel with crimes defined by the Arab Palestinian and against the Arab Palestinians in order to prosecute the Israelis.  The Arab Palestinians often ignore the parts of the law that states:

*Article 22 - RS - Nullum crimen sine lege*
The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed
and 
shall not be extended by analogy. 
In case of ambiguity, the definition 
shall be interpreted in favour 
of the
person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
We often see, especially in pro-Arab Palestinian Propaganda, the re-interpretation of the International Law on various matters.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"Chemical WMD" Story Falling Apart w/ Rania Khalek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who do you have on your side?
> 
> Post somebody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously don’t understand that the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back loons you worship are an embarrassment to thinking humans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need to dodge. Just post one of your best and brightest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your sidestepping is a rather weak defense for your loopy, conspiracy theory addled heroes.
Click to expand...

Got nobody, huh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> This is merely a form of propaganda to reinforce that which those who are predisposed to believe.  It is a creative mix between the messages intended to draw sympathy and that which is intended to influence the international observes outside the region.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.*
> 
> Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.
> 
> Today, Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place. In a vivid example of this, Israel is currently in the midst of demolishing the entire community of Umm al-Hiran in southern Israel and evicting its Palestinian residents, who are citizens of the state. In its place, Israel plans to build a town for Jews, called “Hiran.”
> 
> The Palestinian Nakba Wasn’t Just a Historical Event. It Has Continued Unabated for 70 Years.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is sometimes called "bandwidth sprinkles" _(ie steal, revoke, destroy)_ and "termite allegations" _(damned if you do and damned if you don't)_ where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against.  It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response → to prove emotional abuse, political activated claims, unnecessary commercial restriction and intentionally imposed adverse economic consequences are false.
> 
> Yes, examples of each type of these batch public claims and allegations can be raised.  But presented in this rolling batch form the allegations and claims are intentionally made:
> 
> Vague;
> Argumentative;
> Narratives on the issues;
> Same claims made in various alternative forms and repetitive;
> Assuming facts, not in evidence;
> (MANIPULATION OF CENTRAL ISSUE)
> 
> The Arab Palestinians want the application of specific international laws and conventions to be selectively enforced and discretionary → always applied in favor of the Arab Palestinian.  They always claim first right to charge Israel with crimes defined by the Arab Palestinian and against the Arab Palestinians in order to prosecute the Israelis.  The Arab Palestinians often ignore the parts of the law that states:
> 
> *Article 22 - RS - Nullum crimen sine lege*
> The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed
> and
> shall not be extended by analogy.
> In case of ambiguity, the definition
> shall be interpreted in favour
> of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
> We often see, especially in pro-Arab Palestinian Propaganda, the re-interpretation of the International Law on various matters.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against. It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response


You go through a lot of monkey motions trying to defend the indefensible.

BTW, I noticed that you did not refute anything in my post.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_

Oh nonsense!  You simply don't understand how to apply the knowledge. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against. It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response
> 
> 
> 
> You go through a lot of monkey motions trying to defend the indefensible.
> 
> BTW, I noticed that you did not refute anything in my post.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As explained.  You did not make a specific allegation to specifically address or refute...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> With those two loons typifying the whackjobs you admire, I better understand your parhology.
> 
> 
> 
> Who do you have on your side?
> 
> Post somebody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You obviously don’t understand that the loopy, over the rainbow, ain’t comin’ back loons you worship are an embarrassment to thinking humans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need to dodge. Just post one of your best and brightest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your sidestepping is a rather weak defense for your loopy, conspiracy theory addled heroes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got nobody, huh?
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> Oh nonsense!  You simply don't understand how to apply the knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against. It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response
> 
> 
> 
> You go through a lot of monkey motions trying to defend the indefensible.
> 
> BTW, I noticed that you did not refute anything in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As explained.  You did not make a specific allegation to specifically address or refute...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I did to. You just chose to duck and smokescreen the issues.


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_

Again, nonsense.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> Oh, nonsense!  You simply don't understand how to apply the knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against. It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response
> 
> 
> 
> You go through a lot of monkey motions trying to defend the indefensible.
> 
> BTW, I noticed that you did not refute anything in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As explained.  You did not make a specific allegation to specifically address or refute...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did to. You just chose to duck and smokescreen the issues.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I saw no specific event (date and place) for which there is open source available to review and glean details.

I went back and read your post twice.

If you are talking about the Bedouins, and Umm al-Hiran, Negev, --- that is a domestic issue.  It is the power of government to take private property for public use without the owner’s consent.  In the Western World we call this practice: 




• Eminent Domain •​
There is no "ducking" here at all.  It is not part of the Arab - Israeli conflict.  It is a "domestic issue."  What does the international law have to say about that?  It says:

Article 2(7), UN Charter:
Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
It does not fall into any of the categories you applied with the broad brush. (ie "Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.")  It is not in violation of any law *∴* not theft.

So, I ask again, what specific event are you speaking of in terms of stealing, revoking rights, destruction of property, etc - etc - etc - ?  What law are you claiming is being violated?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> Again, nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> Oh, nonsense!  You simply don't understand how to apply the knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the media style/internet-born proponents for the Arab Palestinian Movements form a swarm of very generalized but nonspecific batch of emerging claims that are far too wide to form a coherent defense against. It sets the stage in which there is no possible effective response
> 
> 
> 
> You go through a lot of monkey motions trying to defend the indefensible.
> 
> BTW, I noticed that you did not refute anything in my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As explained.  You did not make a specific allegation to specifically address or refute...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did to. You just chose to duck and smokescreen the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I saw no specific event (date and place) for which there is open source available to review and glean details.
> 
> I went back and read your post twice.
> 
> If you are talking about the Bedouins, and Umm al-Hiran, Negev, --- that is a domestic issue.  It is the power of government to take private property for public use without the owner’s consent.  In the Western World we call this practice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> • Eminent Domain •​
> There is no "ducking" here at all.  It is not part of the Arab - Israeli conflict.  It is a "domestic issue."  What does the international law have to say about that?  It says:
> 
> Article 2(7), UN Charter:
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially *within the domestic jurisdiction of any state* or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.​
> It does not fall into any of the categories you applied with the broad brush. (ie "Israel continues to steal Palestinian land, revoke residency rights, and destroy Palestinian homes so that Jewish Israelis can live in their place.")  It is not in violation of any law *∴* not theft.
> 
> So, I ask again, what specific event are you speaking of in terms of stealing, revoking rights, destruction of property, etc - etc - etc - ?  What law are you claiming is being violated?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Now you are just playing (???) stupid.

Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.

Nope, nothing illegal here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rose Garden Revisited: A Lecture by Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

**


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_

OK!  Let's do this again...



P F Tinmore said:


> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.


*(QUESTION)*

TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
√  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.

Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Another staged confrontation.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
Click to expand...

Stupid post of the day.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
Click to expand...


You do struggle without a YouTube video to spam the thread with.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


What this dumbfuck does not know is that it is irrelevant why refugees left.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
Click to expand...

Any proof of that or are you just blowing smoke out your ass as usual?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any proof of that or are you just blowing smoke out your ass as usual?
Click to expand...


Yes. I have a YouTube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any proof of that or are you just blowing smoke out your ass as usual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. I have a YouTube video.
Click to expand...

You can't post that kind of video here.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this dumbfuck does not know is that it is irrelevant why refugees left.
Click to expand...


False. The Israeli right of return, at least in part, is predicated upon those refugees reclaiming their homeland in spite of the Islamist colonial project.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any proof of that or are you just blowing smoke out your ass as usual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. I have a YouTube video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't post that kind of video here.
Click to expand...


You have created this thread for the purpose of dumping YouTube videos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this dumbfuck does not know is that it is irrelevant why refugees left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False. The Israeli right of return, at least in part, is predicated upon those refugees reclaiming their homeland in spite of the Islamist colonial project.
Click to expand...

Any proof that any of those refugees have any ancestors from that territory?

I await your response.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this dumbfuck does not know is that it is irrelevant why refugees left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False. The Israeli right of return, at least in part, is predicated upon those refugees reclaiming their homeland in spite of the Islamist colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any proof that any of those refugees have any ancestors from that territory?
> 
> I await your response.
Click to expand...

I’ll find a YouTube video.


----------



## toobfreak

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
Click to expand...



OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?

SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.

Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?

SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.

Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.

Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or

GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.

But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.

Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.

You simply die.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What this dumbfuck does not know is that it is irrelevant why refugees left.
Click to expand...


Doesn’t matter . The 67 Borders” that we hear so much about are not going to fall into the hands of the Palestinians


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do struggle without a YouTube video to spam the thread with.
Click to expand...


If this Video is credible but it was an Israeli boy shot by Palestinians he wouldn’t give a SHIT which is exactly how I feel


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


IDF officer involved indicted for negligent use of firearms for firing off warning shots, which resulted in the death of this child.  This was not a deliberate killing, but an accidental, if negligent, one.  Negligence, while criminally actionable, does not meet the definition of "illegal".  

Fail.  Try again.


----------



## Shusha

@Rocco

If it was me, I would have gone for the Elor Azaria case.


----------



## Hollie

toobfreak said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
Click to expand...


I think your question; “I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?” is an important question.

Certainly, there are some evolutionary imperatives that contribute to the survival of all species; Children (offspring), must be protected from predators, be taught to feed themselves, work and survive, etc., to reproduce and maintain the population. Nature has preprogrammed successful animals with a desire to survive, and once you add our ability to have a sentient perception of death, you have a formula for a more deep seated fear (at least, one that can be expressed by doing something more than just fleeing, like all other animals do).

That dynamic (referring to the Arabs-Moslems), seems to have been crushed by generations of people who are taught “hate” from the cradle to the grave and to value their own death alongside the infliction of suffering and the death of others.   

Otherwise, I don’t see any chance – at all – that there will be any negotiation on the part of either Hamas or the PA. And honestly, why would that “leadership” want to jeopardize the path to incredible wealth? Hamas made a point to offer a sliding scale payment scheme for the minions who they urged toward the tire burning riots. The Hamas “leadership” never made a point to lead those minions in a gee-had charge toward the Israeli border. They watched their minions on CNN from the comfort of their luxury condos.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> @Rocco
> 
> If it was me, I would have gone for the Elor Azaria case.



I don’t believe that would have helped P F Tinmore. Ultimately, it was a codified set of laws, (and the willingness to abide by those laws), that led to the conviction of Elor Azaria. That’s quite a contrast to the PA actively promoting and providing payments for attacks and killing of Israelis. That is one of the starkest differences between Islamic terrorist franchises and a modern, professional military.  

A soldier obeys a distinct hierarchy of leadership and wears a uniform. A soldier is a military representative for a state, and as a result, he can be held accountable for crimes committed while serving in that capacity.

As for the Islamic terrorist, they do not obey a strict hierarchy, do not wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they hide their identities and affiliations to avoid accountability for grievances brought against their actions in war. The Islamic terrorist is also unique from the uniformed soldier in that they choose the AK-47, religion and the suicide bomb to bring about political change instead of the ballot box and the peaceful protest march.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **






*November, 2017*





 *"Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?"*



*"what are they doing"* [lately]











_making kite bombs _[it _IS_ on the news]


_and_





making condom... balloon- bombs [it _IS_ on the news]


_and_





turning down peace-offerings and cease-fires [..._news_]




 _*"How do they live...?" *_











​


​


----------



## toobfreak

Hollie said:


> I think your question; “I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?” is an important question..



Of course it is.  Did the boy stumble into the area?  Was he deaf or stupid not to flee an area under gunfire?  Where were his parents?  Why didn't other adults grab him or take him to safety?  Or could the video simply been orchestrated / edited as facile propaganda?  Of course, the other question is whether the kid was deliberately put in harm's way to use as propaganda against the Israeli's?  Or worse, was he trained to be in there fighting and hating, throwing whatever is a futile effort while, as you say, others sit by and watch?  Why do unarmed civilians in street clothes go up against trained soldiers in combat gear?  Are they suicidal?  Stupid?  Are we to believe the Jews are in there covered in combat gear head to toe firing bullets in hand-to-hand conflict for no reason?

None of the answers I get are good ones.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toobfreak said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
Click to expand...




toobfreak said:


> I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?


It is Israel's conflict area. Israel sent its criminals into a Palestinian village to steal their land and kill people.

The boy was in his own village where he should be.


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's conflict area. Israel sent its criminals into a Palestinian village to steal their land and kill people.
> 
> The boy was in his own village where he should be.
Click to expand...



How do you know?  Were you there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Killing of Ezz Al-Din Tamimi in Nabi Saleh And The Ongoing Colonisation of Palestinians*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

toobfreak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's conflict area. Israel sent its criminals into a Palestinian village to steal their land and kill people.
> 
> The boy was in his own village where he should be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?  Were you there?
Click to expand...

It is SOP for Israel to steal land and kill people. They have been doing that for 70 years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore,_ et al,_
> 
> OK!  Let's do this again...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are just playing (???) stupid.
> 
> Stealing, expelling, destroying, killing, not to mention the attacks on civilians by Israel's military.
> 
> Nope, nothing illegal here.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> TIME FRAME:  2014 to Present:
> √  Name an incident or specific event that you believe is a one-single case that we can discuss.  Choose one that you are 100% illegal.
> 
> Identify an event/incident and tell us what crime was committed.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's conflict area. Israel sent its criminals into a Palestinian village to steal their land and kill people.
> 
> The boy was in his own village where he should be.
Click to expand...


Much like those islamo-yutes rioting near the Israeli border. Just boys in the gee-had doing what Islamics do.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Killing of Ezz Al-Din Tamimi in Nabi Saleh And The Ongoing Colonisation of Palestinians*



Lovely folks those Tamimi tribes people and their ongoing colonization of Pal’istan.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another staged confrontation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's say for the minute that Tinmore is right and more are killed just as shown.  I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?  Are the Palestinians equipped to fight the Israelis?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Can the Palestinians resist with any hope of defeating them?
> 
> SURE DON'T LOOK LIKE IT.
> 
> Then you die by your own choosing, because your resistance is futile.
> 
> Either arm and equip yourselves that you stand a superior chance to resist and take back what you claim is yours (though history is not on your side), or
> 
> GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.  Leave the conflict area.  Negotiate.  Reach a peaceful settlement and end the futile bloodshed.
> 
> But don't come here crying tears when I have none to give.  None to give that can change the situation.  Only the Palestinians have that power.  For a people your Arab brothers threw you to the wolves to decades ago when they walked out every peace talk and settlement offered.
> 
> Time to decide.  Don't ask for sympathy.  Don't ask others to fight your battles FOR you.  If you can't fight a winnable war, then you die for stupidity.  You die for nothing.
> 
> You simply die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what a 9 year old boy is doing in the conflict area in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is Israel's conflict area. Israel sent its criminals into a Palestinian village to steal their land and kill people.
> 
> The boy was in his own village where he should be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?  Were you there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is SOP for Israel to steal land and kill people. They have been doing that for 70 years.
Click to expand...


More of your unfounded claims you cannot support.


----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> It is SOP for Israel to steal land and kill people. They have been doing that for 70 years.



Bullshit response.  No proof offered of anything you say.  Stealing land is YOUR claim.  Killing people is YOUR claim.  There are two sides to every issue and either way, the Palestinian job is to HOLD the land it wants or concede it.  With no peace agreement, no settlement, all passed upon by the Arab States, all land is essentially up for grabs.  The Arabs have NEVER been nice to the Jews, now you complain they are not nice back?  It is also SOP for storms to come in from the west.  That does not mean today's storm did.  This is not a "Zionist" view, merely an Objectivist one.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Killing of Ezz Al-Din Tamimi in Nabi Saleh And The Ongoing Colonisation of Palestinians*
> 
> **




You not very good at this game. 

Ezz Al-Din Tamimi was killed while he was engaging in lethal violence against law enforcement officers.

Remember you are supposed to be looking for illegal acts of Israel, not illegal acts of Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Killing of Ezz Al-Din Tamimi in Nabi Saleh And The Ongoing Colonisation of Palestinians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You not very good at this game.
> 
> Ezz Al-Din Tamimi was killed while he was engaging in lethal violence against law enforcement officers.
> 
> Remember you are supposed to be looking for illegal acts of Israel, not illegal acts of Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




That's quite an honor coming from a nation which is in the process of seizing land from white farmers. 

Let's celebrate South African racism and apartheid by honoring an Arab-Moslem terrorist.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Link?



Don't be lazy.  Its easy enough to google it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be lazy.  Its easy enough to google it.
Click to expand...

Google something that doesn't exist?

Nice duck.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be lazy.  Its easy enough to google it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Google something that doesn't exist?
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...



Wait hold on, you are saying that you refuse to google something because you assume it doesn't exist.  And you accuse me of ducking?  

That's the funniest thing you've typed all year.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be lazy.  Its easy enough to google it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Google something that doesn't exist?
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait hold on, you are saying that you refuse to google something because you assume it doesn't exist.  And you accuse me of ducking?
> 
> That's the funniest thing you've typed all year.
Click to expand...

You always shovel shit you can't prove. I'm not going down your rabbit hole.


----------



## P F Tinmore

What can you say to those poor people who have been displaced from their land and homes by a brutal occupation with no atom of mercy!
The Nakba has not yet ended and we are still living it every day !


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What can you say to those poor people who have been displaced from their land and homes by a brutal occupation with no atom of mercy!
> The Nakba has not yet ended and we are still living it every day !



All drama and no information, no facts, no context, not even a location or a year given.  

On the whole, looks like the LEOs did a reasonable job of controlling, without injury, a violent mob.  Good on them.  Its a difficult job they perform.  They should be commended.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be lazy.  Its easy enough to google it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Google something that doesn't exist?
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wait hold on, you are saying that you refuse to google something because you assume it doesn't exist.  And you accuse me of ducking?
> 
> That's the funniest thing you've typed all year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You always shovel shit you can't prove. I'm not going down your rabbit hole.
Click to expand...



I know, right?!  I mean, the NERVE of me asking you to do a simple google search to discover facts about the videos that you post.  Outrageous.  The HORROR!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What can you say to those poor people who have been displaced from their land and homes by a brutal occupation with no atom of mercy!
> The Nakba has not yet ended and we are still living it every day !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All drama and no information, no facts, no context, not even a location or a year given.
> 
> On the whole, looks like the LEOs did a reasonable job of controlling, without injury, a violent mob.  Good on them.  Its a difficult job they perform.  They should be commended.
Click to expand...

Indeed, destroying homes and stealing land is a difficult job.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What can you say to those poor people who have been displaced from their land and homes by a brutal occupation with no atom of mercy!
> The Nakba has not yet ended and we are still living it every day !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All drama and no information, no facts, no context, not even a location or a year given.
> 
> On the whole, looks like the LEOs did a reasonable job of controlling, without injury, a violent mob.  Good on them.  Its a difficult job they perform.  They should be commended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, destroying homes and stealing land is a difficult job.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that is only one element that Israel must defend itself from. 

Indeed, another element is the Islamic terrorists at the border looking to "tear the hearts out" of the Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, destroying homes and stealing land is a difficult job.



Its really difficult work when people make up narratives denying reality, history, legal documents and human decency.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, destroying homes and stealing land is a difficult job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its really difficult work when people make up narratives denying reality, history, legal documents and human decency.
Click to expand...

You post more nothing than anybody.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, destroying homes and stealing land is a difficult job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its really difficult work when people make up narratives denying reality, history, legal documents and human decency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post more nothing than anybody.
Click to expand...


Ha.  Says the guy who refuses to google the facts about his own video posts.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Let them enter the 67 Borders” we hear so much about the Israelis will be justified in shooting to kill.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


>




Gee, don't any of those people have a job to go to?  Public destruction and vandalism.  Like living next to a termite farm, I'd be tempted to spray the area with mustard gas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toobfreak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, don't any of those people have a job to go to?  Public destruction and vandalism.  Like living next to a termite farm, I'd be tempted to spray the area with mustard gas.
Click to expand...

It is on their land. They can do what they want with it.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, don't any of those people have a job to go to?  Public destruction and vandalism.  Like living next to a termite farm, I'd be tempted to spray the area with mustard gas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is on their land. They can do what they want with it.
Click to expand...


Arabs-Moslems do tend to be self destructive, even when they occupy land that is not theirs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Children of the Islamic Death Cult attend the Hitler Youth Camps


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mandatory Palestine: The Palestinians before the British Mandate*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic conquest and colonization of Pal'istan


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mandatory Palestine: The Palestinians before the British Mandate*
> 
> **



They were Jews, weren't they?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



There were no Arab Muslims in the land when Alexander Macedonian visited Jerusalem,
neither at the time when those Greek coins were issued. This was some 10 centuries before the Arab Muslim colonization.






The *ancient synagogue of Gaza* was built in 508 AD during the Byzantineperiod and was discovered in 1965
In 1965, Egyptian archaeologists discovered the site and announced they had uncovered a church.[2] Later a mosaic of King David wearing a crown and playing a lyre, labelled in Hebrew, was found. The mosaic was dated to 508-09 CE and measured 3 meters (9.8 ft) high by 1.9 meters (6.2 ft) wide.[3][4] It was originally described as depicting a female saint playing the harp.[5] The Egyptian archaeologists stated that the mosaic was in fact an Orpheus mosaic, a Greek god who was commonly associated with Christ or David and used in Byzantine art.[6] Shortly after the mosaic's discovery, the main figure's face was gouged out. When Israel captured the Gaza Strip in the 1967 Six-Day War, the mosaic was transferred to the Israel Museum for restoration.[6][7]

Gaza synagogue - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

*Hamas flattens a 4,500-year-old archaeological site in Gaza*

Palestinian and French archaeologists began excavating Gaza’s earliest archaeological site nearly 20 years ago, unearthing what they believe is a rare 4,500-year-old Bronze Age settlement.

But over protests that grew recently, Gaza’s Hamas rulers have systematically destroyed the work since seizing power a decade ago, allowing the flattening of this hill on the southern tip of Gaza City to make way for construction projects, and later military bases. In its newest project, Hamas-supported bulldozers are flattening the last remnants of excavation.

When calls on Hamas to stop the recent flattening intensified last month, the nearest available expert to gain access to Gaza was Jean-Baptiste Humbert, a Jerusalem-based archaeologist at the Ecole Biblique and who had excavated other sites in Gaza.
“Today the complete southern facade of the Tel is erased,” said Humbert. In previous years, faces and ramparts on other sides were also destroyed. “Now it is destroyed all around,” he said.

“There is a clear destruction of a very important archaeological site.”
- Mouin Sadeq

Hamas flattens a 4,500-year-old archaeological site in Gaza | The Star


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mandatory Palestine: The Palestinians before the British Mandate*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were Jews, weren't they?
Click to expand...

_*"Don't be ridiculous!*
*There were never Jews here,*
*and they were all Palestinians, before they were never here..." *_


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh please.  The irony.  

"One of the greatest crimes of the Israelis is to erase the history of Gaza."


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> *Hamas flattens a 4,500-year-old archaeological site in Gaza*
> 
> Palestinian and French archaeologists began excavating Gaza’s earliest archaeological site nearly 20 years ago, unearthing what they believe is a rare 4,500-year-old Bronze Age settlement.
> 
> But over protests that grew recently, Gaza’s Hamas rulers have systematically destroyed the work since seizing power a decade ago, allowing the flattening of this hill on the southern tip of Gaza City to make way for construction projects, and later military bases. In its newest project, Hamas-supported bulldozers are flattening the last remnants of excavation.
> 
> When calls on Hamas to stop the recent flattening intensified last month, the nearest available expert to gain access to Gaza was Jean-Baptiste Humbert, a Jerusalem-based archaeologist at the Ecole Biblique and who had excavated other sites in Gaza.
> “Today the complete southern facade of the Tel is erased,” said Humbert. In previous years, faces and ramparts on other sides were also destroyed. “Now it is destroyed all around,” he said.
> 
> “There is a clear destruction of a very important archaeological site.”
> - Mouin Sadeq
> 
> Hamas flattens a 4,500-year-old archaeological site in Gaza | The Star





This makes my heart hurt.  That cultural treasures like this are destroyed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*West Bank: Nabi Saleh, the village that resists occupation since 2009*

**


----------



## Hollie

Indeed, Israeli security resists Islamic Terrorism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Animals attacking civilians.*


----------



## Hollie

Indeed, 
Pallywood Newsreel


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Indeed, Israeli security resists Islamic Terrorism.



They should have shot him in the head


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mandatory Palestine: The Palestinians before the British Mandate*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were Jews, weren't they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _*"Don't be ridiculous!*
> *There were never Jews here,*
> *and they were all Palestinians, before they were never here..." *_
Click to expand...


That was. *EXCELLENT!!!!!!*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Intrafada: Hamas youths attack Ramallah police station (video)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Entertaining Fatah infighting doesn't get any press coverage: Rajoub vs. Barghouti*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Countering the colonization of Pal’istan by the Islamist fascists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Good. We agree.  It absolutely IS a war crime to place military objectives in a civilian center such as this.  What do you think the consequences should be?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The outdoor gymnasium.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Talk with Abu "_some of my best friends are Jews_" Death Cultist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Replacement of the JEWISH STATE for a state with all its citizens?  Translation; Palestinian State.....


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Indeed, exploitation of children. It is indeed an Arab-Moslem problem.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.  

Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Lol.  Train young journalists on technology to make them better journalists.  Um, translation:  anti-Israel brainwashing.  You know, with things like the Green Line being an international border.  When did Ahed say she was going to law school?  Is it a "special law school that trains them to be better lawyers"?  How can I take you seriously, Tinmore?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Syrian?  Jordanian?  So hard to tell.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
Click to expand...

He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
Click to expand...


Indeed, that’s almost as funny as Arabs-Moslems believing in a “right of return”.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage. 

So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes. 

Just My Thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace


Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.

Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
Click to expand...


Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”. 

Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.

Indeed!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Solidarity


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
Click to expand...

Of course I can.

The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.

They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.

They detain people without charge or trial.

All mandated by Oslo.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> 
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I can.
> 
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> 
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> 
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> 
> All mandated by Oslo.
Click to expand...


How do You know they have committed no crime?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> 
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I can.
> 
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> 
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> 
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> 
> All mandated by Oslo.
Click to expand...


Well gee whiz, sweetie. How is that any different than the normal state of affairs for islamic terrorist Hell holes?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,






  There has never been a perfect decision ever made since the time of Solomon _(Ars Notoria)_.  And very few leadership decisions, for any complex society, make everyone happy.



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Paestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;" as endorsed by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference and recognized by the UN General Assembly (A/PV.2268).

The Oslo Accords were sgned by the PLO and formally witnessed by Egypt and Jordan (representing Arab Interests) as well as Russia and Norway (as international observers).

You can complain all you want.  But your complaint only represents one of many diverse views the Arab Palestinian people held at the time (1993/1995) a quarter century ago.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has never been a perfect decision ever made since the time of Solomon _(Ars Notoria)_.  And very few leadership decisions, for any complex society, make everyone happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  There's bullshit in every sentence that he speaks.
> 
> Um.  Tinmore, you watched your own video, right?  You know he says that there is an international border at the 1949 Armistice Line, right?
> 
> 
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Paestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;" as endorsed by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference and recognized by the UN General Assembly (A/PV.2268).
> 
> The Oslo Accords were sgned by the PLO and formally witnessed by Egypt and Jordan (representing Arab Interests) as well as Russia and Norway (as international observers).
> 
> You can compain al you want.  But your complaint only represents one of many diverse views the Arab Palestinian people held at the time (1993/1995) a quarter century ago.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All foreigners. You are sidestepping my post.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has never been a perfect decision ever made since the time of Solomon _(Ars Notoria)_.  And very few leadership decisions, for any complex society, make everyone happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Paestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;" as endorsed by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference and recognized by the UN General Assembly (A/PV.2268).
> 
> The Oslo Accords were sgned by the PLO and formally witnessed by Egypt and Jordan (representing Arab Interests) as well as Russia and Norway (as international observers).
> 
> You can compain al you want.  But your complaint only represents one of many diverse views the Arab Palestinian people held at the time (1993/1995) a quarter century ago.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All foreigners. You are sidestepping my post.
Click to expand...


PLO are foreigners?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is PLO. What can I say. He even believes in Oslo.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I can.
> 
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> 
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> 
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> 
> All mandated by Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do You know they have committed no crime?
Click to expand...

If there were crimes there would be warrants, charges, and trials.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has never been a perfect decision ever made since the time of Solomon _(Ars Notoria)_.  And very few leadership decisions, for any complex society, make everyone happy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Paestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;" as endorsed by the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference and recognized by the UN General Assembly (A/PV.2268).
> 
> The Oslo Accords were sgned by the PLO and formally witnessed by Egypt and Jordan (representing Arab Interests) as well as Russia and Norway (as international observers).
> 
> You can compain al you want.  But your complaint only represents one of many diverse views the Arab Palestinian people held at the time (1993/1995) a quarter century ago.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All foreigners. You are sidestepping my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PLO are foreigners?
Click to expand...

No surprise that you missed the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh → Sometimes I think you intentionally mislead people. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Of course I can.
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> All mandated by Oslo.


*{COMMENT)*

For your convenience, I have linked copies of the Oslo Accords for your review.

•  Oslo I Accord  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
•  Oslo II Accord  The Israeli-Palestinian Intrim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip​
There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:

•  Surveillance
•  Arrest
•  Detain/Detention*
•  Courts**
•  Warrants

*Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _release of Hostile Arab Palestinian Prisoner_ releases (Article XVI) by Israel to the PLO.
**Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _Rights (Tort Claims and Awards) , Liabilities and Obligations_ (Article XX).​
Both exceptions are in the opposite direction of the allegations you make.  They are both either complementary to the Rule of Law or ancillary to the Rue of Law. 

While the application of rights and legal principles of the US may be admirable, the fact is that there are many countries that have vastly differing laws on Surveillance, Arrest, Detention, the need for warrants and the Courts.  It would be a rather naive approach to suggest that all countries have the same protections as Americans.  This would be especially true in the Middles East, the Persian Gulf and African countries. 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sidestepping the issue at all.



P F Tinmore said:


> All foreigners. You are sidestepping my post.


*(COMMENT)*

If you believe that the Arab Palestinian people should not be represented by the PLO/PA, then you should start a campaign to topple the current government.

If you believe that the foreign member nations of the UN should not look out for the Arab Palestinians, then you should start a campaign to have the Arab Palestinians to withdraw from the world body.

But this xenophobic charge that they were "all foreigners" is just pure nonsense. And if you believe that → then you should campaign to adopt an isolationist regime.

BUT → As it stands now, the Arab Palestinian people have not been able to establish and self-governing institution for any type of campaign for a popular political party to assume control and power.  AND → The Arab Palestinians have not been able to establish any type of real sovereignty in the past quarter-century; being preoccupied with the armed struggle by jihadist activities. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Actually, I find it kind of refreshing that a PLO Member _(or any Arab Palestinian)_ would put any trust and faith in the political value of their word being a binding obligation.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All too often do we see the Arab Palestinian refusing to accept the consequences of their actions and attempting to abrogate their responsibilities to which they are obligate;  such as the Oslo Accords.  They are very quick to complain about the implementation of Political Conventions and Agreements between the Allied Powers _(for which they are not even a part too)_ not being followed to the interpretation and satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian → YET have the audacity to try and use the causes agreed to between the Allied Powers to their own advantage.
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace _(even to the point of being awards Nobel Prize Recognition)_, it becomes important to us all to hear and take their observations seriously.  We may not agree with them, but they are fundamentally different from the Arab Palestinian that considered "armed struggle" as the only means of settling disputes.
> 
> Just My Thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when an Arab Palestinian _(whether I agree with them or not)_ recognizes the importance of an agreement which was internationally considered as a step towards peace
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, it’s a better arrangement for the PA, PLO, or whatever label the Islamic terrorist franchises prefers to use to, you know, “violate the rights of the people”.
> 
> Not surprisingly, you can’t identify what “rights” would have been violated.
> 
> Indeed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I can.
> 
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> 
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> 
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> 
> All mandated by Oslo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do You know they have committed no crime?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there were crimes there would be warrants, charges, and trials.
Click to expand...


How does the "PA" spy on people?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Oslo was a shit agreement that was negotiated behind the backs of the Palestinians and signed without their approval. Many voiced their disapproval right away while others joined later as the propaganda wore off and reality took over. The promise of Oslo was to bring peace but it only brought more death, more destruction, and more colonization.
> 
> Compliance with Oslo required the PA to violate the rights of the people which should render it void.



Oslo was the beginning of the process of creating a two-state solution and bringing a peaceful settlement to the conflict.  What you are, in effect, saying here is that ANY two-state solution is a "shit agreement", will bring more death, destruction and colonization and will violate the rights of the people (read: Arabs).  

In other words:  Arabs will not permit a two-state solution, will oppose any peace treaty and will continue to use violence and terrorism as a means to that end.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> If you believe that the Arab Palestinian people should not be represented by the PLO/PA, then you should start a campaign to topple the current government.


About 85% of Palestinians want Abbas to leave. However Abbas signs about half of the paychecks in Palestine. He gets all the money, guns, and political support. That is a tough combination to beat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:
> 
> • Surveillance
> • Arrest
> • Detain/Detention*
> • Courts**
> • Warrants


Oslo did not say that specifically, however it did establish a "PA" security force that cooperates with Israel. These forces are subordinate to Israel and use Israel's tactics.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:
> 
> • Surveillance
> • Arrest
> • Detain/Detention*
> • Courts**
> • Warrants
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo did not say that specifically, however it did establish a "PA" security force that cooperates with Israel. These forces are subordinate to Israel and use Israel's tactics.
Click to expand...


You should try out for the Hamas swim team with that Olympics quality backstroke.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Death Cult  Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MKV - Najat El-Khairy - Journey of a Palestinian Artist at the United Nations*

**


----------



## Hollie

Journey of Arab-Moslem whining at the UN


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sidestepping the issue at all.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All foreigners. You are sidestepping my post.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you believe that the Arab Palestinian people should not be represented by the PLO/PA, then you should start a campaign to topple the current government.
> 
> If you believe that the foreign member nations of the UN should not look out for the Arab Palestinians, then you should start a campaign to have the Arab Palestinians to withdraw from the world body.
> 
> But this xenophobic charge that they were "all foreigners" is just pure nonsense. And if you believe that → then you should campaign to adopt an isolationist regime.
> 
> BUT → As it stands now, the Arab Palestinian people have not been able to establish and self-governing institution for any type of campaign for a popular political party to assume control and power.  AND → The Arab Palestinians have not been able to establish any type of real sovereignty in the past quarter-century; being preoccupied with the armed struggle by jihadist activities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...





 *"The Arab Palestinians have not been able to establish any type of real sovereignty in the past quarter-century; being preoccupied with the armed struggle by jihadist activities...."*






even I _agrrrrrrrrreeeeeee_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Thank God It’s Friday*

**


----------



## Hollie

Thank Allah it’s Friday. Another reason for Arabs-Moslems to act like savages in honor of their man-god.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Thank God It’s Friday*
> 
> **




Agree! It’s the Sabbath!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Thank Allah it’s Friday. Another reason for Arabs-Moslems to act like savages in honor of their man-god.




That’s what they do best.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ Hollie, et al,

The resolution _(providing international protection for Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip and West Bank)_ would have, in effect, nullified Article 2 (7) and Article 51 of the UN Charter:

_Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within _the domestic jurisdiction of any state_ or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; _but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.

_Nothing in the present Charter shall impair _the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense_ if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security._​


Hollie said:


> Journey of Arab-Moslem whining at the UN
> ...Media Removed...


*(COMMENT)*

I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated; in addition to a number of the universal legal instruments dealing with terrorism.  

I could also _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite and disgrace the honor and integrity of those of those backers of the proposed Kuwait Resolution on the number of times that the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians have disregarded the Declaration on Principles of International Law (concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States) concerning the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

Nor should we fail to mention how many times the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians have disregarded the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States. 

We should remember that the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), the Izz al-Din al-Qassam (_terrorist wing of Hamas)_, and the PIJ _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_, PFLP _(Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine)_ – and the PFLP-GC _(General Command)_, based on investigations carried out by the competent judicial and police authorities in EU countries, the United States, and Canada → are defined as "terrorist groups" → structured groups of persons, acting in concert to commit terrorist acts.  This resolution would have been, in essence, a protection order for know terrorist groups and protection for those Arab Palestinians _(forfeiting their Protected Persons status)_ who commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (Israelis) in the West Bank.

Such orders would be the equivalent of saying the no Arab League country could protect its borders or act against a terrorist group. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;


Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
Click to expand...


Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.
Click to expand...

No, I don't want to be accused of setting up a straw man.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
Click to expand...


Do you have a collection of YouTube videos which will be your part of the discussion?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Egyptian defensive border wall.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al_,

Well, since you cut out "Customary IHL" in your response, let's take a cross-section of half dozen:




​


Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

✪  Rule #10  In the last five years, the Palestinians have fired well over 13,000 rockets and mortars rounds into Israel.  Usually, this charge pairs-up to Rules #11 _(Indiscriminate Attacks)_ and #21 _(Target Selection)_.  But I thought we should just lump them all together for the sake of brevity. 

✪  Rule #23  Separate form firing the Rockets and Mortars Rounds, the Arab Palestinians intentionally select locations launch sites, command and control sites, and infiltration entrance sites within urban and residential areas, using the civilians as cover and concealment; placing civilian lives in harm's way.

✪  Rule #24 Separate from using the civilians as cover and concealment (Rule #23 supra), the Arab Palestinians actively use civilians as a means to intentionally create casualties for propaganda purposes, and purposefully leave civilians in the vicinity legitimate military targets and refuse to do everything feasible in the evacuation of the civilian population from the vicinity of military objective.

✪  Rule #84  Separate from the over 200 Rockets fired into Israel in recent months, over 7000 acres have been set ablaze by Arab Palestinian incendiary kites under the cover of civilians.

✪  Rule #89  Whether we talk about the Coastal Road massacre (the Dalal Mughrabi incident), the Olympic Massacre (the Munch Incident), the Beit Lid massacre, the First Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing, or the 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing, the "unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

✪  Rule #97  Whether it be the Arab Palestinian policy to use the civilian population to (outright) create border incidents, which has been seen in the last few months, or to use as cover and concealment of insurgent operations, or the Improper use other than that for which the identification of medical and religious personnel, media/press, medical units and medical transports to hide rockets, to move insurgent operators, as well as misuse of such personnel and property of the Red Cross and Red Crescent → it is all a war crime.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

This "Wall of Shame" video is pure and unadulterated propaganda; the purpose of which is to intentionally spread hatred, mislead the viewer and draw on the sympathy from the audience.  It has nothing to do with the truth.



P F Tinmore said:


> Video cut-out


*(COMMENT)*

The border security barrier has nothing to do with "apartheid." 

Every country has the right to protect its borders _(sovereign integrity)_ under international law.   It is just that simple.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> This "Wall of Shame" video is pure and unadulterated propaganda; the purpose of which is to intentionally spread hatred, mislead the viewer and draw on the sympathy from the audience.  It has nothing to do with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Video cut-out
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The border security barrier has nothing to do with "apartheid."
> 
> Every country has the right to protect its borders _(sovereign integrity)_ under international law.   It is just that simple.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In case you haven't noticed, the wall is not on Israel's fake borders. (the green line) It runs deep into the West Bank cutting farmers off from their land and putting them into little prisons frequently called bantustans.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

I'm not sure what your definition of "fake border" is...  I don't think Israel has a fake border.  Whether you like it (the boundary) or not, the REAL Border is anywhere Israel enforces it sovereignty.



P F Tinmore said:


> In case you haven't noticed, the wall is not on Israel's fake borders. (the green line) It runs deep into the West Bank cutting farmers off from their land and putting them into little prisons frequently called bantustans.


*(COMMENT)*

A couple points that need to be faced...

Isreal is not likely to forfeit any territory it now controls if that territory/land compromises the defense of Israeli sovereignty → if placed in the hands of Hostile Arab Palestinians.  I doubt that anyone in theirright mind would consider the Arab Palestinian Leadership honorable and trustworthy today; let alone in the future.

Armistice Lines are not absolute final lines for borders; no matter what the Arab Palestinians want to believe.

There is no agreement between Israel and the Arab Palestinians on matters of Armistice Lines or Borders.  The Arab Palestinians have not entered into any negotiation in good faith.  The Arab Palestinians have declined to particpate in any meaningful negotiations.​
The once the matter of peace and borders are resolved _(the holdup being the Arab Palestinians)_, the solution to any nationality or citizenship issues will also fall out as a consequence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> In case you haven't noticed, the wall is not on Israel's fake borders. (the green line) It runs deep into the West Bank cutting farmers off from their land and putting them into little prisons frequently called bantustans.



Newsflash -- Israel is permitted to defend herself wherever she needs to defend her territory and her citizens.  Matters not one bit if Arabs think its 'their" land.  If you attack Israel, if you incite attacks against Israel, if you threaten to harm her citizens -- she is going to defend herself.  As she should.  Arabs should be grateful its just a wall.

Don't like it?  Stop attacking Israel.  Easy peasy.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> Israel is not likely to forfeit any territory it now controls if that territory/land compromises the defense of Israeli sovereignty → if placed in the hands of Hostile Arab Palestinians.



Let's look at end games for Hostile Arabs Palestinians here:

1.  They break themselves militarily on the impenetrable fortress which is Israel.
2.  They ruin themselves economically in the face of Israel's high tech machine and international savvy.
3.  They miraculously convince other Arab nations to (again) invade and try to conquer Israel and the entire ME is wiped out and start again.






Good heavens!  Are you still trying to win?!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al_,
> 
> Well, since you cut out "Customary IHL" in your response, let's take a cross-section of half dozen:
> 
> View attachment 213800​
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Rule #10  In the last five years, the Palestinians have fired well over 13,000 rockets and mortars rounds into Israel.  Usually, this charge pairs-up to Rules #11 _(Indiscriminate Attacks)_ and #21 _(Target Selection)_.  But I thought we should just lump them all together for the sake of brevity.
> 
> ✪  Rule #23  Separate form firing the Rockets and Mortars Rounds, the Arab Palestinians intentionally select locations launch sites, command and control sites, and infiltration entrance sites within urban and residential areas, using the civilians as cover and concealment; placing civilian lives in harm's way.
> 
> ✪  Rule #24 Separate from using the civilians as cover and concealment (Rule #23 supra), the Arab Palestinians actively use civilians as a means to intentionally create casualties for propaganda purposes, and purposefully leave civilians in the vicinity legitimate military targets and refuse to do everything feasible in the evacuation of the civilian population from the vicinity of military objective.
> 
> ✪  Rule #84  Separate from the over 200 Rockets fired into Israel in recent months, over 7000 acres have been set ablaze by Arab Palestinian incendiary kites under the cover of civilians.
> 
> ✪  Rule #89  Whether we talk about the Coastal Road massacre (the Dalal Mughrabi incident), the Olympic Massacre (the Munch Incident), the Beit Lid massacre, the First Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing, or the 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing, the "unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✪  Rule #97  Whether it be the Arab Palestinian policy to use the civilian population to (outright) create border incidents, which has been seen in the last few months, or to use as cover and concealment of insurgent operations, or the Improper use other than that for which the identification of medical and religious personnel, media/press, medical units and medical transports to hide rockets, to move insurgent operators, as well as misuse of such personnel and property of the Red Cross and Red Crescent → it is all a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Most of your post is based on BS Israeli talking points.

That said.

Israel has killed Palestinians by the thousands. It has maied Palestinians by the thousands. It has expelled Palestinians by the thousands. It has destroyed homes by the thousands. It destroys economic infrastructures.

Yet the Palestinians response is expected to be pristine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

Rarely is it the case that the building of a nation is not accomplished without pain, suffering and sacrifice.  And I cannot think of a nation _(of consequence)_ that did not go through the cycle of blood.  Looking at the G-8 Nations _(France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, Japan, the United States, Canada, and Russia)_, all of these nations went through a struggle _(albeit Canada probably the least)_, a couple having been destroyed and reengineered a couple of times before they came to the formation you see today. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al_,
> 
> Well, since you cut out "Customary IHL" in your response, let's take a cross-section of half dozen:
> 
> View attachment 213800​
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Rule #10  In the last five years, the Palestinians have fired well over 13,000 rockets and mortars rounds into Israel.  Usually, this charge pairs-up to Rules #11 _(Indiscriminate Attacks)_ and #21 _(Target Selection)_.  But I thought we should just lump them all together for the sake of brevity.
> 
> ✪  Rule #23  Separate form firing the Rockets and Mortars Rounds, the Arab Palestinians intentionally select locations launch sites, command and control sites, and infiltration entrance sites within urban and residential areas, using the civilians as cover and concealment; placing civilian lives in harm's way.
> 
> ✪  Rule #24 Separate from using the civilians as cover and concealment (Rule #23 supra), the Arab Palestinians actively use civilians as a means to intentionally create casualties for propaganda purposes, and purposefully leave civilians in the vicinity legitimate military targets and refuse to do everything feasible in the evacuation of the civilian population from the vicinity of military objective.
> 
> ✪  Rule #84  Separate from the over 200 Rockets fired into Israel in recent months, over 7000 acres have been set ablaze by Arab Palestinian incendiary kites under the cover of civilians.
> 
> ✪  Rule #89  Whether we talk about the Coastal Road massacre (the Dalal Mughrabi incident), the Olympic Massacre (the Munch Incident), the Beit Lid massacre, the First Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing, or the 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing, the "unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✪  Rule #97  Whether it be the Arab Palestinian policy to use the civilian population to (outright) create border incidents, which has been seen in the last few months, or to use as cover and concealment of insurgent operations, or the Improper use other than that for which the identification of medical and religious personnel, media/press, medical units and medical transports to hide rockets, to move insurgent operators, as well as misuse of such personnel and property of the Red Cross and Red Crescent → it is all a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most of your post is based on BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> That said.
> 
> Israel has killed Palestinians by the thousands. It has maied Palestinians by the thousands. It has expelled Palestinians by the thousands. It has destroyed homes by the thousands. It destroys economic infrastructures.
> 
> Yet the Palestinians response is expected to be pristine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I find it rather naive that the Arab Palestinians would expect a country on a Silver Platter.  I wonder just how many Arabs have died, how much blood has been spilled, to shape the Middle East the way it looks today? 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Rarely is it the case that the building of a nation is not accomplished without pain, suffering and sacrifice.  And I cannot think of a nation _(of consequence)_ that did not go through the cycle of blood.  Looking at the G-8 Nations _(France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, Japan, the United States, Canada, and Russia)_, all of these nations went through a struggle _(albeit Canada probably the least)_, a couple having been destroyed and reengineered a couple of times before they came to the formation you see today.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al_,
> 
> Well, since you cut out "Customary IHL" in your response, let's take a cross-section of half dozen:
> 
> View attachment 213800​
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could _(for the benefit of our many prop-Arab Palestinians viewers)_ cite the various Customary and International Humanitarian Laws (IHL) that the Arab Palestinians violated;
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you pull one of those out for discussion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh please.  Pick one and the Arab Palestinians have violated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  Rule #10  In the last five years, the Palestinians have fired well over 13,000 rockets and mortars rounds into Israel.  Usually, this charge pairs-up to Rules #11 _(Indiscriminate Attacks)_ and #21 _(Target Selection)_.  But I thought we should just lump them all together for the sake of brevity.
> 
> ✪  Rule #23  Separate form firing the Rockets and Mortars Rounds, the Arab Palestinians intentionally select locations launch sites, command and control sites, and infiltration entrance sites within urban and residential areas, using the civilians as cover and concealment; placing civilian lives in harm's way.
> 
> ✪  Rule #24 Separate from using the civilians as cover and concealment (Rule #23 supra), the Arab Palestinians actively use civilians as a means to intentionally create casualties for propaganda purposes, and purposefully leave civilians in the vicinity legitimate military targets and refuse to do everything feasible in the evacuation of the civilian population from the vicinity of military objective.
> 
> ✪  Rule #84  Separate from the over 200 Rockets fired into Israel in recent months, over 7000 acres have been set ablaze by Arab Palestinian incendiary kites under the cover of civilians.
> 
> ✪  Rule #89  Whether we talk about the Coastal Road massacre (the Dalal Mughrabi incident), the Olympic Massacre (the Munch Incident), the Beit Lid massacre, the First Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing, or the 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing, the "unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✪  Rule #97  Whether it be the Arab Palestinian policy to use the civilian population to (outright) create border incidents, which has been seen in the last few months, or to use as cover and concealment of insurgent operations, or the Improper use other than that for which the identification of medical and religious personnel, media/press, medical units and medical transports to hide rockets, to move insurgent operators, as well as misuse of such personnel and property of the Red Cross and Red Crescent → it is all a war crime.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most of your post is based on BS Israeli talking points.
> 
> That said.
> 
> Israel has killed Palestinians by the thousands. It has maied Palestinians by the thousands. It has expelled Palestinians by the thousands. It has destroyed homes by the thousands. It destroys economic infrastructures.
> 
> Yet the Palestinians response is expected to be pristine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I find it rather naive that the Arab Palestinians would expect a country on a Silver Platter.  I wonder just how many Arabs have died, how much blood has been spilled, to shape the Middle East the way it looks today?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WTF


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


The Hamas pimp posts again.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas pimp posts again.
Click to expand...


As usual, you're not making sense.


----------



## Hollie

A look into the gaping maw of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> A look into the gaping maw of the Arab-Moslem Death Cult












_around and around we go......................._​




​

....I 

 VOTE for:

Inviting Khalil 





and his....

 cabinet members..........

..... to the White House....hey, the President 

 has met with _UN and PUTIN_ - what's one (or 2) more tyrants to try and broker a deal with............





 Khalil.....abbasssssssssssss.....



welcome!



what's with the kite bombs ? how about we ...help build up your beachfront property?







_whadda say Khalil....?
_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians - Always under attack by foreign troops.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

The Americans show sympathy for the Israelis simply because the Arab Palestinians have continued to choose conflict over negotiation in every stage of the historic 70 years of confrontation.  The Arab Palestinians, the Arab League, and Iranian associates want to make the world believe that they are for peace and Israel is the aggressor.

A war was fought in 1948 → Israel on one side and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt on the other side.  A set of Armistice Agreements _(a ceasefire arrangement with the border states)_ was eventually agreed upon.  It was not until 1979 that Egypt signed a Peace Treaty with Israel --- and it took another 15 years before --- Jordan signed its peace Treaty with Israel.

It should be remembered that Lebanon and Syria have yet to sign a Peace Treaty.  When the video takes about Lebanon → it does not really sound-out the reasons for the action; it doesn't really explain the necessity for Operation Peace for Galilee.  The trigger for the invasion was probably when the and Arab Palestinian element infiltrated into Israel and first killed and killed unarmed and well-respected photographer and photo-journalist Gail Rubin _(who - BTW - was the niece of US Senator Abraham Ribicoff)_.  The murder of Gail Rubin was immediately followed by the abduction of a civilian bus _(Coastal Road Massacre)_ and the machinegun execution of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.  The Fatah _[faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)]_ terrorist raid was lead by Dalal al-Maghribi (BTW: a former senior adviser to the man who would become the Palestinian Authority Chairman → Mahmoud Abbas); a person in which Arab Palestinians celebrate by naming a public square, a couple of schools, a computer center, a soccer tournament, and a summer camp.

When you talk about why the Israelis went into southern Lebanon, remember that they were fighting a faction of people _(just like Dalal al-Maghribi)_ that follow the oath pledged even before the State of Israel was proclaimed:

_The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration_
_ before the United Nations, before God and history,_
_ that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition._
_ The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out _
_— _
_man, woman and child._​This is who the Israelis faced in 1948 and every conflict with the Arab Palestinians over the last 70 years.  It is who they still fight today.

And, BTW, did you ever wonder why the PLO migrated to southern Lebanon?  The PLO was not wanted in Jordan after "_Black September_." _(Rhetorical)_



P F Tinmore said:


> video truncated


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians want the American Public to believe that the decisions made in 1920 by the WWI Allied Powers were wrong --- just as they want the American Public to believe that the decisions made by the post-WWII Allied Powers were wrong.  The Arab Palestinians want to fight on, in fact, they insist that today,

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.​
It is a decision for each American to make for themselves.  The questions become simple:

Do you stand with the
Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents,
Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters?
-------------------------------------------------  *OR*  -------------------------------------------------
Do you stand with the State of Israel,
the only successful democracy in the Region,
the most successful in the country in Human Development in the Region,
*GDP per capita Comparison*




​
Your choice - you decide who is jerking who's chain.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians - Always under attack by foreign troops.



You’re a bit befuddled regarding the facts.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians - Always under attack by foreign troops.



under attack ? 

 where ?  too bad you couldn't take the time to give 'people like me' in lalaland a bit of ....Who/what/where/why?

i see....people strolling, i hear...a pop of gunfire now and then, i see....

 reporters, soldiers trying to get people to walk in one direction -- *thank GOD it wasn't so bad*. ...and 

 the elderly man with the cane...?  what happened there ?  i missed it - how did he get on the ground, and WHY wasn't ONE person helping him or ...even near him trying to help him up ?

i took in like 4 minutes ....then FF a bit..... i don't now what the F is going on...but i didn't see any *"ATTACKS."*



 where ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> The Americans show sympathy for the Israelis simply because the Arab Palestinians have continued to choose conflict over negotiation in every stage of the historic 70 years of confrontation.  The Arab Palestinians, the Arab League, and Iranian associates want to make the world believe that they are for peace and Israel is the aggressor.
> 
> A war was fought in 1948 → Israel on one side and Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt on the other side.  A set of Armistice Agreements _(a ceasefire arrangement with the border states)_ was eventually agreed upon.  It was not until 1979 that Egypt signed a Peace Treaty with Israel --- and it took another 15 years before --- Jordan signed its peace Treaty with Israel.
> 
> It should be remembered that Lebanon and Syria have yet to sign a Peace Treaty.  When the video takes about Lebanon → it does not really sound-out the reasons for the action; it doesn't really explain the necessity for Operation Peace for Galilee.  The trigger for the invasion was probably when the and Arab Palestinian element infiltrated into Israel and first killed and killed unarmed and well-respected photographer and photo-journalist Gail Rubin _(who - BTW - was the niece of US Senator Abraham Ribicoff)_.  The murder of Gail Rubin was immediately followed by the abduction of a civilian bus _(Coastal Road Massacre)_ and the machinegun execution of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.  The Fatah _[faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)]_ terrorist raid was lead by Dalal al-Maghribi (BTW: a former senior adviser to the man who would become the Palestinian Authority Chairman → Mahmoud Abbas); a person in which Arab Palestinians celebrate by naming a public square, a couple of schools, a computer center, a soccer tournament, and a summer camp.
> 
> When you talk about why the Israelis went into southern Lebanon, remember that they were fighting a faction of people _(just like Dalal al-Maghribi)_ that follow the oath pledged even before the State of Israel was proclaimed:
> 
> _The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration_
> _ before the United Nations, before God and history,_
> _ that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition._
> _ The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out _
> _— _
> _man, woman and child._​This is who the Israelis faced in 1948 and every conflict with the Arab Palestinians over the last 70 years.  It is who they still fight today.
> 
> And, BTW, did you ever wonder why the PLO migrated to southern Lebanon?  The PLO was not wanted in Jordan after "_Black September_." _(Rhetorical)_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> video truncated
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians want the American Public to believe that the decisions made in 1920 by the WWI Allied Powers were wrong --- just as they want the American Public to believe that the decisions made by the post-WWII Allied Powers were wrong.  The Arab Palestinians want to fight on, in fact, they insist that today,
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase.​
> It is a decision for each American to make for themselves.  The questions become simple:
> 
> Do you stand with the
> Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents,
> Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters?
> -------------------------------------------------  *OR*  -------------------------------------------------
> Do you stand with the State of Israel,
> the only successful democracy in the Region,
> the most successful in the country in Human Development in the Region,
> *GDP per capita Comparison*
> View attachment 214010
> ​
> Your choice - you decide who is jerking who's chain.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So, what were Dalal al-Maghribi and the PLO doing in Lebanon? Why were they there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

member said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians - Always under attack by foreign troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> under attack ?
> 
> where ?  too bad you couldn't take the time to give 'people like me' in lalaland a bit of ....Who/what/where/why?
> 
> i see....people strolling, i hear...a pop of gunfire now and then, i see....
> 
> reporters, soldiers trying to get people to walk in one direction -- *thank GOD it wasn't so bad*. ...and
> 
> the elderly man with the cane...?  what happened there ?  i missed it - how did he get on the ground, and WHY wasn't ONE person helping him or ...even near him trying to help him up ?
> 
> i took in like 4 minutes ....then FF a bit..... i don't now what the F is going on...but i didn't see any *"ATTACKS."*
> 
> 
> 
> where ?
Click to expand...




member said:


> Who/what/where/why?


Good questions. Why were those troops even there? What was their purpose?


member said:


> reporters, soldiers trying to get people to walk in one direction -


Why were they getting the people to move?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

I'm surprised that you do not know.

*BLUF →* Q:  Why were they in Lebanon?  A:  The PLO was in Lebanon because they were unwanted in Jordan...



P F Tinmore said:


> So, what were Dalal al-Maghribi and the PLO doing in Lebanon? Why were they there?


*(COMMENT)
*
The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was trouble even for its own kind _(other Arab Palestinians)_.  Its policy of choosing "armed struggle" over that of "peaceful negotiation" did not apply to just Israel.  The PLO stirred-up an insurgency and guerrilla conflict in Jordan.  And in the latter half of 1970 _(I remember that year very well, it was the year I went to Vietnam.)_ the PLO tried to assassinate HM King Hussein at least three times. *
*


			
				EXCERPT:  Wikipedia from Black September in Jordan said:
			
		

> [*LINK*]  On 13 October he signed an agreement with Arafat to regulate the fedayeen's presence. However, the Jordanian army attacked again in January 1971. The Fedayeen were driven out of the cities, one by one, until 2,000 fedayeen surrendered after being surrounded in a forest near Ajloun on 17 July, marking the end of the conflict.  Jordan allowed the Fedayeen to leave for Lebanon via Syria, and the fedayeen later participated in the 1975 Lebanese Civil War. The Black September Organization was founded after the conflict to carry out reprisals against the Jordanian authorities. The organization's first attack was the assassination of Wasfi Al-Tal in 1971, the then Jordanian Prime Minister who had commanded parts of the operation that expelled the Fedayeen.





			
				EXCERPT:  ThoughtCo → by Pierre Tristam  Updated January 02 said:
			
		

> *•  King Hussein crushes the PLO and expels it from Jordan  •*
> The Jordanian civil war of September 1970, also known in the Arab world as Black September, was an attempt by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the more radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) to topple Jordanian King Hussein and seize control of the country.
> ------------------------------------ AND ------------------------------------​But the PLO's last gasps were short-lived. Arafat and the PLO were expelled from Jordan by early 1971. They went to Lebanon, where they proceeded to create a similar state-within-a-state, weaponizing a dozen Palestinian refugee camps around Beirut and in South Lebanon, and destabilizing the Lebanese government as they had the Jordanian government, as well as playing a leading role in two wars: the 1973 war between the Lebanese army and the PLO, and the 1975-1990 civil war, in which the PLO fought alongside leftist Muslim militias against Christian militias.



The PLO does not speak the language of peace and the Arab Palestinian Leaders - were not then - and - are NOT now - diplomats for non-violence in any resolution _(There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.)_.  IF they are not directly involved in war, THEN they were among those attempting to encourage conflict and incite violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why doesn't he get out and arrest those kids for throwing stones?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> I'm surprised that you do not know.
> 
> *BLUF →* Q:  Why were they in Lebanon?  A:  The PLO was in Lebanon because they were unwanted in Jordan...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what were Dalal al-Maghribi and the PLO doing in Lebanon? Why were they there?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> *
> The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was trouble even for its own kind _(other Arab Palestinians)_.  Its policy of choosing "armed struggle" over that of "peaceful negotiation" did not apply to just Israel.  The PLO stirred-up an insurgency and guerrilla conflict in Jordan.  And in the latter half of 1970 _(I remember that year very well, it was the year I went to Vietnam.)_ the PLO tried to assassinate HM King Hussein at least three times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  Wikipedia from Black September in Jordan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [*LINK*]  On 13 October he signed an agreement with Arafat to regulate the fedayeen's presence. However, the Jordanian army attacked again in January 1971. The Fedayeen were driven out of the cities, one by one, until 2,000 fedayeen surrendered after being surrounded in a forest near Ajloun on 17 July, marking the end of the conflict.  Jordan allowed the Fedayeen to leave for Lebanon via Syria, and the fedayeen later participated in the 1975 Lebanese Civil War. The Black September Organization was founded after the conflict to carry out reprisals against the Jordanian authorities. The organization's first attack was the assassination of Wasfi Al-Tal in 1971, the then Jordanian Prime Minister who had commanded parts of the operation that expelled the Fedayeen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT:  ThoughtCo → by Pierre Tristam  Updated January 02 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  King Hussein crushes the PLO and expels it from Jordan  •*
> The Jordanian civil war of September 1970, also known in the Arab world as Black September, was an attempt by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the more radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) to topple Jordanian King Hussein and seize control of the country.
> ------------------------------------ AND ------------------------------------​But the PLO's last gasps were short-lived. Arafat and the PLO were expelled from Jordan by early 1971. They went to Lebanon, where they proceeded to create a similar state-within-a-state, weaponizing a dozen Palestinian refugee camps around Beirut and in South Lebanon, and destabilizing the Lebanese government as they had the Jordanian government, as well as playing a leading role in two wars: the 1973 war between the Lebanese army and the PLO, and the 1975-1990 civil war, in which the PLO fought alongside leftist Muslim militias against Christian militias.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The PLO does not speak the language of peace and the Arab Palestinian Leaders - were not then - and - are NOT now - diplomats for non-violence in any resolution _(There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.)_.  IF they are not directly involved in war, THEN they were among those attempting to encourage conflict and incite violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> A: The PLO was in Lebanon because they were unwanted in Jordan...


Nice duck.


RoccoR said:


> over that of "peaceful negotiation"


The Palestinians only ask for their inalienable rights. Inalienable rights cannot be negotiated away.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians only ask for their inalienable rights. Inalienable rights cannot be negotiated away.



Of course. The Hamas charter ia a long, tedious appeal to ideals of Islamic fascism. That was for centuries an islamic inalienable right.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Why doesn't he get out and arrest those kids for throwing stones?



They did.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians - Always under attack by foreign troops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> under attack ?
> 
> where ?  too bad you couldn't take the time to give 'people like me' in lalaland a bit of ....Who/what/where/why?
> 
> i see....people strolling, i hear...a pop of gunfire now and then, i see....
> 
> reporters, soldiers trying to get people to walk in one direction -- *thank GOD it wasn't so bad*. ...and
> 
> the elderly man with the cane...?  what happened there ?  i missed it - how did he get on the ground, and WHY wasn't ONE person helping him or ...even near him trying to help him up ?
> 
> i took in like 4 minutes ....then FF a bit..... i don't now what the F is going on...but i didn't see any *"ATTACKS."*
> 
> 
> 
> where ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who/what/where/why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good questions. Why were those troops even there? What was their purpose?
> 
> 
> member said:
> 
> 
> 
> reporters, soldiers trying to get people to walk in one direction -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why were they getting the people to move?
Click to expand...


this is where they were actually [the military] pushing palestinians off their land.....and 

 Grandpa on the ground, not budging, protester.....


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

I wonder if you read the entire posting → especially the link in bold print.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A: The PLO was in Lebanon because they were unwanted in Jordan...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I hope you realize that anyone who reads • Post #5074 • that they will know that the answer  DID NOT duck the question at all.  They will understand that HM King Hussein expelled the PLO.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> over that of "peaceful negotiation"
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only ask for their inalienable rights. Inalienable rights cannot be negotiated away.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

For someone who uses this lame excuse about "rights" so frequently → it is amazing that you somehow appear not to know the difference between a positive and a negative political right. 

--- Positive Rights Conflict Most of All with Our Basic Negative Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property ---​§  Natural rights—or, as they have been un-euphoniously dubbed, “negative rights”—pertain to freedom from the uninvited interventions of others.

§  Positive rights, by contrast, require that we be provided with goods or services at the expense of other persons, which can only be accomplished by systematic coercion.​
See:  *The Difference Between Negative Rights and Positive Rights*

No one owes the Arab Palestinians anything.  The State of Israel does not have to forfeit anything to the Arab Palestinians.  The Israelis have the "Right" to what they hold sovereign. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians only ask for their inalienable rights. Inalienable rights cannot be negotiated away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. The Hamas charter ia a long, tedious appeal to ideals of Islamic fascism. That was for centuries an islamic inalienable right.
Click to expand...


PT FINKMORE....sobski --- FORGET IT. 



The Bible says it all.  yes, Palestine existed.  *that was 'her' name centuries ago*, [PALESTINE] and centuries ago the people who lived there - were Hebrews/the "jews."  then, as time went on, ruffians came and went -- they all had their hands on the joint and all wanted it or themselves....



 eons later, the muslims decided 

 *THEY* wanted it for themselves and in a brutal way... took it over.

Palestine was INHABITED by "Hebrews" - the Hebrews[jews] were there 1st.  Palestine TODAY....is now CALLED israel...

if anyone is squatting on Palestinian/iSRAEL land --- are the muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> I wonder if you read the entire posting → especially the link in bold print.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A: The PLO was in Lebanon because they were unwanted in Jordan...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hope you realize that anyone who reads • Post #5074 • that they will know that the answer  DID NOT duck the question at all.  They will understand that HM King Hussein expelled the PLO.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> over that of "peaceful negotiation"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians only ask for their inalienable rights. Inalienable rights cannot be negotiated away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> For someone who uses this lame excuse about "rights" so frequently → it is amazing that you somehow appear not to know the difference between a positive and a negative political right.
> 
> --- Positive Rights Conflict Most of All with Our Basic Negative Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property ---​§  Natural rights—or, as they have been un-euphoniously dubbed, “negative rights”—pertain to freedom from the uninvited interventions of others.
> 
> §  Positive rights, by contrast, require that we be provided with goods or services at the expense of other persons, which can only be accomplished by systematic coercion.​
> See:  *The Difference Between Negative Rights and Positive Rights*
> 
> No one owes the Arab Palestinians anything.  The State of Israel does not have to forfeit anything to the Arab Palestinians.  The Israelis have the "Right" to what they hold sovereign.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Got a map of Israel without those fake border armistice lines?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Got a map of Israel without those fake border armistice lines?



Oh please.  You keep bringing this up as though it matters when discussing the basic, universal, inviolable, non-negotiable RIGHTS of peoples.  Its another one of the red herrings you throw up in order to deflect the conversation from the actual issue under discussion.  

The funny thing about your arguments is that you are entirely correct and would be winning the whole debate -- IF you just applied the same rights equally and universally to all people.  

The Arab Palestinians have every right to self-determination in their homeland.  (So do the Jewish people).
The Arab Palestinians have every right to sovereignty and independence in their homeland.  (So do the Jewish people).
The Arab Palestinians have every right to territorial integrity.  (So do the Jewish people).
The Arab Palestinians have every right to return to the land of their ancestors.  (So do the the Jewish people).

Let me take the Jewish people out of (parentheses).

The Jewish people have every right to self-determination in their homeland.
The Jewish people have every right to sovereignty and independence in their homeland.
The Jewish people have every right to territorial integrity.
The Jewish people have every right to return to the land of their ancestors.  

These are inherent, inviolable, universal rights.  They can't be lost.  Or violated.  Or negotiated away.  Right?  YOU keep insisting that they can not be lost or violated or negotiated away.  Right?

The good news is that it is not a zero sum game with only one peoples having access to the rights.  Both peoples can have all of these rights.  Just like the peoples of the Czech Republic and Slovakia both have all of those rights.  Just like the peoples of Serbia and Bosnia and Croatia and Slovenia and Macedonia and Montenegro all have all of those rights.  

But you are so stuck in this Palestinian mentality that "surrender" is out of the question; that you would rather die than live in peaceful harmony alongside another peoples; that your rights are somehow SO 'special' that you are literally willing to give up every single chance of success and happiness in a fruitless quest for some sort of ideological "win".  It is ridiculous.  Truly.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a map of Israel without those fake border armistice lines?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please.  You keep bringing this up as though it matters when discussing the basic, universal, inviolable, non-negotiable RIGHTS of peoples.  Its another one of the red herrings you throw up in order to deflect the conversation from the actual issue under discussion.
> 
> The funny thing about your arguments is that you are entirely correct and would be winning the whole debate -- IF you just applied the same rights equally and universally to all people.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have every right to self-determination in their homeland.  (So do the Jewish people).
> The Arab Palestinians have every right to sovereignty and independence in their homeland.  (So do the Jewish people).
> The Arab Palestinians have every right to territorial integrity.  (So do the Jewish people).
> The Arab Palestinians have every right to return to the land of their ancestors.  (So do the the Jewish people).
> 
> Let me take the Jewish people out of (parentheses).
> 
> The Jewish people have every right to self-determination in their homeland.
> The Jewish people have every right to sovereignty and independence in their homeland.
> The Jewish people have every right to territorial integrity.
> The Jewish people have every right to return to the land of their ancestors.
> 
> These are inherent, inviolable, universal rights.  They can't be lost.  Or violated.  Or negotiated away.  Right?  YOU keep insisting that they can not be lost or violated or negotiated away.  Right?
> 
> The good news is that it is not a zero sum game with only one peoples having access to the rights.  Both peoples can have all of these rights.  Just like the peoples of the Czech Republic and Slovakia both have all of those rights.  Just like the peoples of Serbia and Bosnia and Croatia and Slovenia and Macedonia and Montenegro all have all of those rights.
> 
> But you are so stuck in this Palestinian mentality that "surrender" is out of the question; that you would rather die than live in peaceful harmony alongside another peoples; that your rights are somehow SO 'special' that you are literally willing to give up every single chance of success and happiness in a fruitless quest for some sort of ideological "win".  It is ridiculous.  Truly.
Click to expand...

WOW, have you been mislead.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

OK, I'll bite*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, have you been mislead.


*(QUESTION)*

What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*

Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I am surprised that, in your travels, you do not see the fallacy of her claims. We have had this discussion before.

"All *peoples* have the inalienable right to..." is the way rights are described. Why do they always say peoples and not just people? Peoples are territorial. People are not.  The French are a people. The British are a people. The Palestinians are a people. They are defined by the territory for which they belong. These are national rights. A territory and a people are "married" to each other. They cannot be separated.

Montevideo says that a state must have a defined territory. A people need a defined territory. In the rules of nationality and state succession, when an old state dissolves and a new state is formed, the people become nationals of the new state. When the Turkish Empire dissolved and Palestine was formed, all of the people inside that defined territory became Palestinians. Their nationality changed, their religion did not.

The French, the British, the Palestinians, etc. are all defined by the territory for which they belong. The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. are religions and not defined by any particular territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Little Muhammud at summer camp


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
Click to expand...

Then where are they?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am surprised that, in your travels, you do not see the fallacy of her claims. We have had this discussion before.
> 
> "All *peoples* have the inalienable right to..." is the way rights are described. Why do they always say peoples and not just people? Peoples are territorial. People are not.  The French are a people. The British are a people. The Palestinians are a people. They are defined by the territory for which they belong. These are national rights. A territory and a people are "married" to each other. They cannot be separated.
> 
> Montevideo says that a state must have a defined territory. A people need a defined territory. In the rules of nationality and state succession, when an old state dissolves and a new state is formed, the people become nationals of the new state. When the Turkish Empire dissolved and Palestine was formed, all of the people inside that defined territory became Palestinians. Their nationality changed, their religion did not.
> 
> The French, the British, the Palestinians, etc. are all defined by the territory for which they belong. The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. are religions and not defined by any particular territory.
Click to expand...

That's a lame misconception easily pierced by international law.
The Jewish Nation was defined by territory, since the year 1920.

It has become the US law as well.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,

Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.   



P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.

They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am surprised that, in your travels, you do not see the fallacy of her claims. We have had this discussion before.
> 
> "All *peoples* have the inalienable right to..." is the way rights are described. Why do they always say peoples and not just people? Peoples are territorial. People are not.  The French are a people. The British are a people. The Palestinians are a people. They are defined by the territory for which they belong. These are national rights. A territory and a people are "married" to each other. They cannot be separated.
> 
> Montevideo says that a state must have a defined territory. A people need a defined territory. In the rules of nationality and state succession, when an old state dissolves and a new state is formed, the people become nationals of the new state. When the Turkish Empire dissolved and Palestine was formed, all of the people inside that defined territory became Palestinians. Their nationality changed, their religion did not.
> 
> The French, the British, the Palestinians, etc. are all defined by the territory for which they belong. The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. are religions and not defined by any particular territory.
Click to expand...


Weasel words. 

With your discussion of the dissolution of the Turkish Empire, you acknowledge that "territorial integrity" can be broken, that marriages to territory dissolve,  that new nationalities can be founded, that new states can be formed, that boundaries can be added, that territories can be redefined, that new states can succeed old states and that defined peoples can have national rights. 

You have defeated your own argument quite succinctly. And proven further that you have special rules for the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am surprised that, in your travels, you do not see the fallacy of her claims. We have had this discussion before.
> 
> "All *peoples* have the inalienable right to..." is the way rights are described. Why do they always say peoples and not just people? Peoples are territorial. People are not.  The French are a people. The British are a people. The Palestinians are a people. They are defined by the territory for which they belong. These are national rights. A territory and a people are "married" to each other. They cannot be separated.
> 
> Montevideo says that a state must have a defined territory. A people need a defined territory. In the rules of nationality and state succession, when an old state dissolves and a new state is formed, the people become nationals of the new state. When the Turkish Empire dissolved and Palestine was formed, all of the people inside that defined territory became Palestinians. Their nationality changed, their religion did not.
> 
> The French, the British, the Palestinians, etc. are all defined by the territory for which they belong. The Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, the Wiccans, etc. are religions and not defined by any particular territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weasel words.
> 
> With your discussion of the dissolution of the Turkish Empire, you acknowledge that "territorial integrity" can be broken, that marriages to territory dissolve,  that new nationalities can be founded, that new states can be formed, that boundaries can be added, that territories can be redefined, that new states can succeed old states and that defined peoples can have national rights.
> 
> You have defeated your own argument quite succinctly. And proven further that you have special rules for the Jewish people.
Click to expand...

You clearly did not understand my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.


Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
Click to expand...


What territory does Israel occupy that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of its' people under?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory does Israel occupy that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of its' people?
Click to expand...

That was my question.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
Click to expand...


Actually, proof has been posted that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization. 

You have not posted proof to disprove that. 

Now, twist that falafel into a pretzel and disprove the disproof.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What territory does Israel occupy that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of its' people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was my question.
Click to expand...

I knew You'd start dancing like a scared duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, proof has been posted that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> You have not posted proof to disprove that.
> 
> Now, twist that falafel into a pretzel and disprove the disproof.
Click to expand...

The universal duck.

Where is the proof?

Already been posted.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, proof has been posted that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> You have not posted proof to disprove that.
> 
> Now, twist that falafel into a pretzel and disprove the disproof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The universal duck.
> 
> Where is the proof?
> 
> Already been posted.
Click to expand...


post #5098

Still doing the scared duck dance?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, proof has been posted that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> You have not posted proof to disprove that.
> 
> Now, twist that falafel into a pretzel and disprove the disproof.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The universal duck.
> 
> Where is the proof?
> 
> Already been posted.
Click to expand...


I fully expected your retreat to silly cartoons.

Let me try and explain to you the fallacy you engage in which you can respond to with one of four identifiable one-liners you typically use.

You _cannot_ require "_disproof of that which is not_" as a standard because you are establishing a fallacious standard which can be applied as a response, as you saw. When you make the nonsense claim ”Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization” I can then counter with “proof has been posted that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization. Prove it hasn't” Which is fully consistent, _using your own standard_.

Thus, I am merely accepting your standards and requiring _you_ to accept the "standards", such as they are, you have established.

Therefore, I trust you will post the disproof.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You clearly did not understand my post.



Oh, I'm a relatively intelligent person and have been reading your posts for some time now.  Its not especially difficult to understand.  

You weasel around trying to justify why the Jewish people are excepted from all standards and rights.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.



Of course we have.

First proof:  The Jewish people are a clearly defined indigenous people who originated on that territory.  It is the Jewish homeland.

Second proof:  The Jewish people have been present in that homeland for their entire existence as a people, more than 3000 years.

Third proof:  The Jewish people, like all people, have an inherent, basic, universal, inviolable, non-negotiable human right to self-determination.

Fourth proof:  International recognition of the Jewish people to reconstitute their national rights in that territory in the form of treaties and legal documents which are binding on the parties to those agreements.  

Fifth proof:  Israel is an State, in all ways, exactly like 192 other States.

Sixth proof:  Israel holds actual, physical sovereign and effective control over territory which they are entitled to by law.


Finally, your premise is silly.  There are dozens of States which are occupations of indigenous peoples created for the purpose of colonization.  What is the point of bringing that up?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, have you been mislead.
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
Click to expand...


You have not proven that it is an “ occupation “ that the U.N.  endorsed on May 14,  1948. 
 You have also referred to the Armistice Lines as “ fake borders” yet when asked what the “ real borders” should be there is no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

Map of Israel without the fake armistice line borders.


----------



## Shusha

Exactly right. That's a map of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian students celebrate during their graduation ceremony at al-Aqsa University in Khan Younis in the southern of Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll bite*!*
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> What do you think our friend "Shusha" has been mislead about here*?*
> 
> Tell us what is wrong with the thesis "Shusha" as presented here...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have not proven that it is an “ occupation “ that the U.N.  endorsed on May 14,  1948.
> You have also referred to the Armistice Lines as “ fake borders” yet when asked what the “ real borders” should be there is no response
Click to expand...

The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. I have seen nothing since then to change that status.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have not proven that it is an “ occupation “ that the U.N.  endorsed on May 14,  1948.
> You have also referred to the Armistice Lines as “ fake borders” yet when asked what the “ real borders” should be there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. I have seen nothing since then to change that status.
Click to expand...


You have a habit of projecting your ignorance of history.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian students celebrate during their graduation ceremony at al-Aqsa University in Khan Younis in the southern of Gaza Strip.




Here’s another Death Cult graduation ceremony


----------



## Hollie

Israeli security establishment


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, they get educated in open areas.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Since the beginning of the _'March of Return'_ not a single day has passed without violence from Gaza, what non-violent protest is he talking about?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.





rylah said:


> What territory does Israel occupy that wasn't vested with the sovereignty of its' people?



Where's the answer from team Hamas?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Sovereignty _(in this case)_ is understood to be that territory over which the people of the State Israel exercises and enforces its Supreme Authority to the exclusion of any other States _(including the external Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He talks about “ fake Armistice Lines” yet when you ask what the “ real ones” are there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Then where are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a distorted counterview made to slide away from where sovereignties are bounded in the reality of the physical world.
> 
> They want to say that the (as an example) Security Barrier is a form of apartheid, yet they are not willing to recognize that the sovereignty on either side of the Security Barrier is different from the other side.  They want to claim that they are stupid to the point that they cannot recognize the territorial border markings and barriers; yet, the Arab Palestinians just tried in the last few months to breach these barriers that they cannot see or recognize.  AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND the Arab Palestinians want to claim that they were _(as our friend PF Tinmre says)_ born under occupation _(effective control by the Israelis)_ yet, they cannot recognize the difference between the territorial atmosphere of the territories and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody has ever posted any proof that Israel is not an occupation for the purpose of colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have not proven that it is an “ occupation “ that the U.N.  endorsed on May 14,  1948.
> You have also referred to the Armistice Lines as “ fake borders” yet when asked what the “ real borders” should be there is no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The 1949 UN Armistice Agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. I have seen nothing since then to change that status.
Click to expand...


Yawn..,,  Not true. I have previously posted proof that the International Community OFFICIALLY recognized the “ occupied” areas of Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem part of both Egypt and Jordan.
    Regarding your “ map” prior to 1948 without Israel existing is the goal of the Arab World which is one more reason why “ Right of Return” will never happen


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Protesting Israel’s existence since 1948????    “ Right of Return” so they can introduce havoc and start a possible civil Wsr???


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



I always get a laugh from the silly YouTube videos / blogs you cut and paste. 

What, exactly, is an “international journalist” as opposed to a, you know, regular journalist?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Nakba myth and other 1000 and 1 Arabian night fairy tales:*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Nakba myth and other 1000 and 1 Arabian night fairy tales:*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
Click to expand...


You're waving the flag of surrender.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194*

The legal bases for return can be found in eight branches of international law: (1) inter-State nationality law, (2) law of State succession, (3) human rights law, (4) humanitarian law, (5) law of State responsibility, (6) refugee law, (7) UN law, and (8) natural/customary law. These legal foundations are briefly highlighted here.

*Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194 – Cambridge International Law Journal*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194*
> 
> The legal bases for return can be found in eight branches of international law: (1) inter-State nationality law, (2) law of State succession, (3) human rights law, (4) humanitarian law, (5) law of State responsibility, (6) refugee law, (7) UN law, and (8) natural/customary law. These legal foundations are briefly highlighted here.
> 
> *Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194 – Cambridge International Law Journal*



Terribly flawed with an unsupportable definition of so-called "refugee".

Why not cut and paste the usual, and similarly silly Susan Akram YouTube video?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nakba myth and other 1000 and 1 Arabian night fairy tales:*
Click to expand...


*The Hoax of Ilan Pappe Revealed*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194*
> 
> The legal bases for return can be found in eight branches of international law: (1) inter-State nationality law, (2) law of State succession, (3) human rights law, (4) humanitarian law, (5) law of State responsibility, (6) refugee law, (7) UN law, and (8) natural/customary law. These legal foundations are briefly highlighted here.
> 
> *Bases for the Palestinian Refugees’ Right of Return under International Law: Beyond General Assembly Resolution 194 – Cambridge International Law Journal*



This article is full of political doctrine (hogwash) disguised as "international law" in order to justify a particular political position.  It confuses different aspects of law, mislabels and even adapts different, competing laws as being equally applicable.

Let's begin with basics.  

How many nationalities exist, currently, in the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
Can individuals choose their own nationality though actions related to self-determination?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Watch how this little Palestinian girl reacted angrily to the demolition of her house by the Israeli occupation authorities in al-Walaja village.


Does Israel have a new Ahed Tamimi on its hands?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P FPTinmore, Hollie, et al,

Hollie is correct*!*  There is no question as to the conflict in the understanding what it means to be a Refugee in the case of the Palestinians.



Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Excerpt:  The legal bases for return can be found in eight branches of international law: (1) inter-State nationality law, (2) law of State succession, (3) human rights law, (4) humanitarian law, (5) law of State responsibility, (6) refugee law, (7) UN law, and (8) natural/customary law. These legal foundations are briefly highlighted here.
> 
> 
> 
> Terribly flawed with an unsupportable definition of so-called "refugee".
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The excerpt, supra, is from a submission by Dr Mutaz M. Qafisheh _(__Dean, College of Law and Political Science, Hebron University Palestinian Territory__)_ and is often used as an authority for the claim of legitimacy on the issue of "Right of Return."  
(1) Inter-State Nationality Law,
✪  No "Nationality Law" - codified or customary - directly effects the disposition of territory previously under a Mandate.​(2) Law of State Succession, 
✪  The use of the phrase "State Succession" means:  the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."  (See; Part I, Article 2b, Vienna Convention of State succession in Treaty Law.)  The key passage in this meaning is;"​"in the responsibility of *international relations* of the territory"​_*Article 12* The Principal Allied Powers have agreed to the "*Mandate of Palestine*."_
The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the *control of the foreign relations of Palestine* and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when outside its territorial limit.​(3) human rights law, 
✪  This would mean the "Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees • Resolution 2198 ( XXI )  (1951 - 1967)."  And it provides the most comprehensive codification of the "rights of refugees" at the international level.  Having said that, the Convention explicitely excludes the its application to persons who are at present receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations (ex  UNRWA) other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance.​(4) Humanitarian Law, 
✪  The ICRC position on these matters is:  "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951) and the Convention Governing the Specific Aspects of Refugee Problems in Africa (1969) – and human rights law, and particularly by the principle of non-refoulement. They fall under the mandate of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."
While the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, Article 13(2), pertains to this discussion, when put to a vote, the UDHR was not established and put into force _(never made it into law)_.​(5) Law of State Responsibility,
✪   This means nothing if it does not specifically point to an international law for which an obligation is questioned.​(6) Refugee Law,
✪  This is redundant with item (3). ​(7) UN Law,
✪  There is no UN Law _(ie *UN* does not create *law*)_.  This (again) means nothing unless you cite a specific law.​(8) Natural/Customary Law.
✪  Ah!  Now, this is interesting, because customary law cancels-out the fences that limitation of UNHCR responsibility and the associated convention.  And that changes who is considered a refugee and holds the "right of return."
If one looks-up the Customary IHL on the database, it show the applicable law.  Please read it closely and remember, the Arab Palestinians have not been non-violent since 1948 and the solemn declaration:
Rule 132. Displaced persons have a right to voluntary return in safety to their homes or places of habitual residence as soon as the reasons for their displacement *cease to exist*.​The Customary Law _(reasons for their displacement *cease to exist*)_, in the case of the Arab Palestinians:
Even before the adoption of A/RES/181 (II), the A/AC.13/PV.38 4 August 1947 clearly records the intention of the Arab Palestinians as expressed in the forum of the Arab Higher Committee:
4) The Jewish State which the Zionists are endeavouring to establish in Palestine is not moreover a viable State either from the political or from the economic point of view.

The Arab States could not, in fact, tolerate the creation of a State composed of foreign elements from so many parts, each with its own mentality, its insatiable desires, for the fulfilment of which they deliberately use violent and destructive means such as those we have mentioned.

Against a State established by violence the Arab States will be obliged to use violence; that is a legitimate right of self-defence.​This political position has been reaffirmed many times and still is exists as a 21st Century perspective in the use of violence:
(2012)  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
​While the presentation of Dr Qafisheh sounds impressive, it is not in any real respect.

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Someone told me today that _"insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, while expecting a different result"._

Who would that be?


----------



## rylah

*FIFA suspends and fines Jibril Rajoub*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The excerpt, supra, is from a submission by Dr Mutaz M. Qafisheh _(__Dean, College of Law and Political Science, Hebron University Palestinian Territory__)_ and is often used as an authority for the claim of legitimacy on the issue of "Right of Return."


So?

This was published in the Cambridge International Law Journal. May we assume that this would be peer reviewed?

It would be interesting to see any rebuttals if any.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)


Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The excerpt, supra, is from a submission by Dr Mutaz M. Qafisheh _(__Dean, College of Law and Political Science, Hebron University Palestinian Territory__)_ and is often used as an authority for the claim of legitimacy on the issue of "Right of Return."
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This was published in the Cambridge International Law Journal. May we assume that this would be peer reviewed?
> 
> It would be interesting to see any rebuttals if any.
Click to expand...


Peer reviewed for what, exactly? You have cut and pasted similar opinions    you found on the web. Oddly, the flood of foreign Arab-Moslem settler colonists never materialized.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The excerpt, supra, is from a submission by Dr Mutaz M. Qafisheh _(__Dean, College of Law and Political Science, Hebron University Palestinian Territory__)_ and is often used as an authority for the claim of legitimacy on the issue of "Right of Return."
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This was published in the Cambridge International Law Journal. May we assume that this would be peer reviewed?
> 
> It would be interesting to see any rebuttals if any.
Click to expand...


Answer my post from earlier and you will see rebuttals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ✪ The use of the phrase "State Succession" means: the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."


The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.

This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The so-called “Pal’istanians” are struggling?

Gaza’s Millionaires and Billionaires — How Hamas’s Leaders Got Rich Quick


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The use of the phrase "State Succession" means: the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.
> 
> This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.
Click to expand...


That’s the same nonsensical cut and paste you dump into multiple threads. It has been addressed repeatedly. Why spam multiple threads with the same cut and paste?

Here’s a hint: the Treaty of Lausanne did not create your invented “country of Pal’istan”.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.
> 
> This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.



Oh wow, like the scribbler of the article we discussing, you like to play fast and loose with the rules, don't you?  But let's follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion.

1.  You are claiming here that there is ONE (only one) Successor State and that is Israel.  (Phew, we agree).  Since there is only one Successor State, the entire territory is Israel and upon Israel's Declaration of Independence, all residents in the territory became citizens of Israel.

2. All residents of Jordan, by rules of State succession, became nationals of Jordan (the other Successor State), and are no longer refugees and thus have no further rights of return.

3.  Anyone who continues to reside in the territory, by definition, is not a refugee and has no further rights of return.  They are already there. 

4.  Israel Nationality Law becomes the law of the land.

5.  There is no occupation. 


With me so far?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.
Click to expand...


General Assembly resolutions are non-binding opinions.

Elaborate on your statement: “Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law.”

Your opinions tend toward circuitous routes leading to confused and contradictory predefined conclusions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The use of the phrase "State Succession" means: the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.
> 
> This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s the same nonsensical cut and paste you dump into multiple threads. It has been addressed repeatedly. Why spam multiple threads with the same cut and paste?
> 
> Here’s a hint: the Treaty of Lausanne did not create your invented “country of Pal’istan”.
Click to expand...

You are confused.

I never said it did.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

I saw that.  I'm not sure that this is a case of using a professional journal for the publication as a means of pre-publication peer review. My experience has been that the peer review is a process before a final manuscript is presented for publication.  _(Saves on unnecessary embarrassment.)_

Dr Qafisheh received his PhD in or around a decade ago (2007).  Since then, I've seen more than a dozen such articles (I'm sure there must be more) on a wide ranging set of matters from Palestinians politics, economics and (my personal favorite)* The Ability of the Palestinian Legal System to Secure Adequate Standards of Living: Reform or Failed State Duty *_(Asian Journal of International Law)_*.   *



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The excerpt, supra, is from a submission by Dr Mutaz M. Qafisheh _(__Dean, College of Law and Political Science, Hebron University Palestinian Territory__)_ and is often used as an authority for the claim of legitimacy on the issue of "Right of Return."
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This was published in the Cambridge International Law Journal. May we assume that this would be peer reviewed?
> 
> It would be interesting to see any rebuttals if any.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Professional academics often publish rather than practice. _ (Them that cannot do ...)_ But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> General Assembly resolutions are non-binding opinions.
> 
> Elaborate on your statement: “Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law.”
> 
> Your opinions tend toward circuitous routes leading to confused and contradictory predefined conclusions.
Click to expand...

Example?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et a

NO!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The use of the phrase "State Succession" means: the replacement of one state by another in the responsibility of international relations of the territory."
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of nationality and state succession states that when a new state succeeds another, all of the people who normally lived in that territory would become citizens of the new state. This was followed by the Treaty of Lausanne, the Mandate, and was a tenet of Resolution 181.
> 
> This means that all Palestinian refugees became citizens of Israel.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are confused.  I gave the link.  Please take the time to read it.  The territory was released to the Allied Powers that were to handle the "international relations of the territory."  The Arab Palestinians had declined (three times before 1923) in the participation of the self-governing institution, that would have handled the international relations of the territory.

At the conclusion of the WWI, the territory under the Mandate did not pass-on to a successor "State" until 15 May 1948.

By the Way:  Is UN GA 194 a BINDING Resolution?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

Both Tinmore and the scribbler who wrote the article are well aware that a UNGA resolution is not binding.  Hence the need to scramble to find some other "international law" which supports any sort of 'right of return' for the Arab Palestinians uniquely.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Professional academics often publish rather than practice. _ (Them that cannot do ...)_ But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.


Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Professional academics often publish rather than practice. _ (Them that cannot do ...)_ But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.
Click to expand...



She also thinks the whole territory is Israel?!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✪ The ICRC position on these matters is: "Refugees are protected by refugee law – mainly the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951)
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law. That was passed specifically to address the Palestinian refugees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> General Assembly resolutions are non-binding opinions.
> 
> Elaborate on your statement: “Resolution 194 was passed in 1948 and was in strict compliance with international law.”
> 
> Your opinions tend toward circuitous routes leading to confused and contradictory predefined conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Example?
Click to expand...


One would be your odd notion that the Treaty of Lausanne created your imagined “country of Pal”istan, Another would be that UNGA opinions have any force of law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Professional academics often publish rather than practice. _ (Them that cannot do ...)_ But operaators in the real world often find these published articleuseful as a means of maintaining a true course in the realities and alternative view in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Dr. Susan Akram who is a Professional academic and a practicing attorney in the field of immigration and refugee cases. Her views are quite similar to Dr Qafisheh.
Click to expand...


It’s nice that they share an opinion.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Resistance at 70: the future of the Palestinian national movement*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?


Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
Click to expand...


*Q. P F Tinmore and who agreed to that?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
Click to expand...


Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?


Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.

Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Who the hell is "Lama Khater?"  Lama Khater is an amateur blogger and contributing opinion writer for such pro-terrorist organizations such as al-Jazeera, the HAMAS-affiliated Quds News Network (QNN) _(primarily composed of freelance wanna-be correspondents and 60 volunteers ambulance chasing story writers)_.  She does not have a true portfolio due to not having a prior professional experience as a journalist.

Lama Khater is one of those people that attempts to pretend they are an unbiased source of eye-witness accounts that contribute to the incitement of terrorist acts, that motivates extremist activity and poses a serious danger to human rights.



P F Tinmore said:


> "Free  Lama Khater" poster


*(COMMENT)*

There is little question as to the importance of the role of the media in the creation of a productive dialogue and in promoting tolerance in fostering an environment which is not conducive to incitement of terrorism.  However, Lama Khater makes no such contribution.  She, instead, does the opposite and attempts to be the center of attention by playing the part of a heroine; one caught in the middle of a freedom of the press issue.

Lama Khater is NOT a person who acts with extraordinary courage. On the contrary, Lama Khater has been charged in connection with inciting "hostile" activities against Israeli soldiers and settlers.  She has been promoting Jihadism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  Pro-Arab Palestinian forces are using organizations like the Palestinian Prisoner Society (PPS) _(no better than a fraternal organization of gangsters)_ and The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) to gain sympathy; changing the story from "why she was apprehended," to focusing on the fact of it is a "detention of a journalist."

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
Click to expand...


*LOSS OF NATIONALITY*

At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention. 

49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.

COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOSS OF NATIONALITY*
> 
> At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
> Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.
> 
> 49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.
> 
> COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe
Click to expand...


*Losing Dutch nationality*
You can lose your Dutch nationality. It does not matter if you have been Dutch from birth, or have taken Dutch nationality later in life. You can lose your Dutch nationality automatically, or it may be revoked by the authorities.



Automatic loss of Dutch nationality
Revocation of Dutch nationality by the authorities

*Automatic loss of Dutch nationality*
You can lose your Dutch nationality automatically. For example, if you voluntarily acquire another nationality or if you sign a declaration renouncing your Dutch nationality.

*Revoking of Dutch nationality by the authorities*
It is also possible for the authorities to revoke your Dutch nationality. For instance, if you obtained Dutch nationality by fraudulent means. Or if you join an organisation that poses a threat to national security.

Losing Dutch nationality


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.



 ​


Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.

Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 214732​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.
> 
> Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOSS OF NATIONALITY*
> 
> At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
> Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.
> 
> 49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.
> 
> COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> voluntary service in a foreign military force


Like American Jews joining the IDF?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *LOSS OF NATIONALITY*
> 
> At the initiative of the State (Article 7) 48.
> Article 7 of the Convention sets out specific instances in which an individual can lose his or her nationality ex lege or at the initiative of the State. Automatic loss of citizenship is usually concerned with the voluntary acquisition of another nationality but it can also occur when an individual has been abroad and there has been no contact with the home State. Such matters are dealt with in the Convention (Articles 7.1.a and e). The other means of losing citizenship is through revocation. The Convention sets out in some detail the circumstances in which revocation should be allowed. These are: acquisition of nationality by means of fraudulent conduct, false information or concealment of any relevant fact (Article 7.1.b); voluntary service in a foreign military force (Article 7.1.c); conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State (Article 7.1.d); where it is established during the minority of a child that the preconditions which led to the ex lege acquisition of nationality are no longer fulfilled (Article 7.1.f); and where upon adoption a child acquires a foreign nationality of one or both of the adoptive parents (Article 7.1.g). But many States have in their legislation other reasons for the deprivation of citizenship. These may include such matters as conviction for a serious criminal offence; public service without permission in a foreign State, especially if by doing so the 16 individual acquires the foreign nationality; working for a foreign intelligence or security service or military organisation; performance of acts contrary to the interests of the State; where an individual fails his or her duty of fidelity and loyalty; and attempting to forcefully change the constitutional state system. These matters were rejected by the CJ-NA in drafting the Convention and it is unlikely that extra circumstances would be accepted for adding to the Convention.
> 
> 49. Article 7.2 of the Convention deals with the loss of a State’s nationality by children whose parents lose that nationality. It provides that a child should not lose the nationality if one of the parents retains it. No mention is made of whether a young person should have the right to remedy any decisions regarding his or her nationality which had been lost through decisions or actions in which he or she had no input and it should be considered whether to make a Recommendation on this matter.
> 
> COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS ON NATIONALITY - Council of Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> voluntary service in a foreign military force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like American Jews joining the IDF?
Click to expand...


American Jews joining the IDF become nationals of* an ally state*, as many other double-nationality citizens, on the other hand US citizens participating in Hamas military activity can become a target of involuntary citizenship revocation *for assisting an enemy of the state.*

This is what called _"conduct seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the State",_ this both with_ 'voluntary service in a foreign military force'_ are usually considered as threats against national security.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 214732​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.
> 
> Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.
Click to expand...


OK, so what's all this fuss with the islamic gee-had at the border riots?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 214732​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who holds sovereignty over the geographical territory commonly referred to as Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.
> 
> Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so what's all this fuss with the islamic gee-had at the border riots?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians already have the right to sovereignty.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 214732​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.
> 
> Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so what's all this fuss with the islamic gee-had at the border riots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians already have the right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...


In what way?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are a bit confused...



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.


*(COMMENT)*

On the matter of Acquisition by Force:

It is not an element of force.  In the case of the Middle East, the Arabs were the aggressors (1948, 1967, 1973).  And the general legal principle is that the the aggressor nation may not profit from their act of aggression.  In the basic law, you do not reward wrong doing.

Yes, the rule is: the principle of international law on "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force.”  But in actuallity, the Arab Forces do ntget a do-over just because they want to reset the battlefield and try again.​
On the Matter of Sovereignty:

Sovereignty is not a "thing."  You cannot issue sovereignty.  Sovereignty is a "state of being."  The concepts of "admissible or inadmissible" are not applicable.  Any given territory is either under the sovereignty of a power, or it is not.  It is not something you recognize or not recognize.  It is either under the power of a nation to the exclusion of all others, or it is not.​
Whether or not you think it is illegal is unimportant.   It cannot change sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You keep the issue that "military control" ≠ "sovereignty."  True, and no one is arguing that point.  Sovereignty is about exercising "decision making power and authority."  IF a territory is "exclusively" under the  "power and authority" of country "A" → THEN no other country can claim sovereignty.
> 
> View attachment 214732​
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel holds military control. Military control does not equate to sovereignty. It is usually related to occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> Your islamo-tap dancing around the question is not surprising.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are all manner in levels of 'control."  Yes, to be an occupation power, the occupation force must have "effective control."  But that is only one aspect of control; military, police or otherwise.
> 
> Sovereignty can be acquired and maintained by military control or in which constitutional provisions for government remanded into the hands of the military and civilian control is suspended _[eg military dictatorship - Egypt (Middle East) or Ethiopia (Africa)]_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, so what's all this fuss with the islamic gee-had at the border riots?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians already have the right to sovereignty.
Click to expand...


OK, but you have claimed that sovereignty cannot be acquired by force. 

So what's all this fuss about the Islamic gee-had at the border riots?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I ask again, what territory is sovereign unto the Arab Palestinian?



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians already have the right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

Sovereignty over a territory is a state of being; you have it or you don't.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BTW:  Israel does not claim sovereignty over the West Bank or Gaza Strip.  The small pieces of land that they did claim sovereignty over (ie a piece of Jerusalem) were never places that were ever under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinian (at least for a millennium.

v/r
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Keep showing those Y Tube Videos. The more they play the more it’s realized the Palestinians have no desire to respect Israel’s Borders which is something the Israeli Govt had known from the start.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It is not an element of force. In the case of the Middle East, the Arabs were the aggressors (1948, 1967, 1973).


Which Arabs?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



When will this end? 

I believe your question should be, "when will the Islamist gee-had end"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>






*Illegal villas demolished on French Mediterranean coast*


----------



## rylah

*US MAKES 1ST EXTRADITION REQUEST FOR HAMAS TERRORIST WHO KILLED AMERICANS*
*Request to Jordan could put terrorist woman released in Schalit deal back in prison*

The US Department of Justice announced on Tuesday its first ever extradition request to try a Hamas terrorist who murdered Americans during the Second Intifada.

Prior to US President Donald Trump taking office, the only legal proceedings against such terrorists have been criminal proceedings in Israeli courts or civil wrongful death proceedings brought by the families of victim, not by the US government, in US courts.
The request is addressed to Jordan to extradite Ahlam Tamimi, who was in Israeli jails for multiple murders connected to the August 9, 2001 Sbarro Pizza suicide bombing, but was released in the 2011 Gilad Schalit prisoner exchange.

15 civilians were killed in the midday attack, including 7 children and a pregnant woman, and 130 were wounded. Tamimi scouted for a target before leading the bomber, Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri, to the restaurant.


----------



## rylah

*ON THIS DAY: REMEMBERING THE DEVASTATION OF THE MUNICH MASSACRE*
*Soon after the massacre began, a Black September spokesman called for the release 234 Palestinian prisoners and West German-held founders of the Red Army Faction, Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof.*

46 years ago, September 5, 1972 Palestinian terrorist group Black September took hostage and later killed 11 Israelis Olympic athletes and a German police officer during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany. 

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *US MAKES 1ST EXTRADITION REQUEST FOR HAMAS TERRORIST WHO KILLED AMERICANS*
> *Request to Jordan could put terrorist woman released in Schalit deal back in prison*
> 
> The US Department of Justice announced on Tuesday its first ever extradition request to try a Hamas terrorist who murdered Americans during the Second Intifada.
> 
> Prior to US President Donald Trump taking office, the only legal proceedings against such terrorists have been criminal proceedings in Israeli courts or civil wrongful death proceedings brought by the families of victim, not by the US government, in US courts.
> The request is addressed to Jordan to extradite Ahlam Tamimi, who was in Israeli jails for multiple murders connected to the August 9, 2001 Sbarro Pizza suicide bombing, but was released in the 2011 Gilad Schalit prisoner exchange.
> 
> 15 civilians were killed in the midday attack, including 7 children and a pregnant woman, and 130 were wounded. Tamimi scouted for a target before leading the bomber, Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri, to the restaurant.


Jordan cannot extradite Ahlam Tamimi because it would violate their own laws.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> *ON THIS DAY: REMEMBERING THE DEVASTATION OF THE MUNICH MASSACRE*
> *Soon after the massacre began, a Black September spokesman called for the release 234 Palestinian prisoners and West German-held founders of the Red Army Faction, Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof.*
> 
> 46 years ago, September 5, 1972 Palestinian terrorist group Black September took hostage and later killed 11 Israelis Olympic athletes and a German police officer during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany.
> 
> **



I will “ cry” for “ Innocent Palestinians” the way they cried for those Israeli Athletes


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, for heavens sake.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not an element of force. In the case of the Middle East, the Arabs were the aggressors (1948, 1967, 1973).
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

That would be all the participating Arab League Nations that were interfereing by force in the Israeli efforts of self-determination IAW the UN Recommendation and the cooperation of the UN Palestine Commission _(the successor government)_.  This would also include the Hostile Arab Palestinians of the Holy War Army and the Arab Liberation Army.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,, et al,

I don't think anyone really expected Jordan, or any other member of the Arab League, to follow
The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy (A/RES/60/288).



P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US MAKES 1ST EXTRADITION REQUEST FOR HAMAS TERRORIST WHO KILLED AMERICANS*
> *Request to Jordan could put terrorist woman released in Schalit deal back in prison*
> 
> The US Department of Justice announced on Tuesday its first-ever extradition request to try a Hamas terrorist who murdered Americans during the Second Intifada.
> 
> Prior to US President Donald Trump taking office, the only legal proceedings against such terrorists have been criminal proceedings in Israeli courts or civil wrongful death proceedings brought by the families of victims, not by the US government, in US courts.
> The request is addressed to Jordan to extradite Ahlam Tamimi, who was in Israeli jails for multiple murders connected to the August 9, 2001 Sbarro Pizza suicide bombing, but was released in the 2011 Gilad Schalit prisoner exchange.
> 
> 15 civilians were killed in the midday attack, including 7 children and a pregnant woman, and 130 were wounded. Tamimi scouted for a target before leading the bomber, Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri, to the restaurant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot extradite Ahlam Tamimi because it would violate their own laws.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There was no reasonable expectation that the nations in the Middle East, North Africa, the Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea, or those of Central Asia _(which account for more than half of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters in the world)_ would abide by the  tenants and pledge of the Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy:



			
				II. Measures to prevent and combat terrorism said:
			
		

> *We resolve to undertake the following measures* to prevent and combat terrorism, in particular by denying terrorist access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks:
> 
> 1. To refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts, intended to be committed against other States or their citizens;
> 
> 2. To cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, *deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute,* any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens;
> 
> 3. *To ensure the apprehension and prosecution or extradition of perpetrators of terrorist acts,* in accordance with the relevant provisions of national and international law, in particular human rights law, refugee law and international humanitarian law. We will endeavour to *conclude and implement to that effect mutual judicial assistance and extradition agreements* and to strengthen cooperation between law enforcement agencies;​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *US MAKES 1ST EXTRADITION REQUEST FOR HAMAS TERRORIST WHO KILLED AMERICANS*
> *Request to Jordan could put terrorist woman released in Schalit deal back in prison*
> 
> The US Department of Justice announced on Tuesday its first ever extradition request to try a Hamas terrorist who murdered Americans during the Second Intifada.
> 
> Prior to US President Donald Trump taking office, the only legal proceedings against such terrorists have been criminal proceedings in Israeli courts or civil wrongful death proceedings brought by the families of victim, not by the US government, in US courts.
> The request is addressed to Jordan to extradite Ahlam Tamimi, who was in Israeli jails for multiple murders connected to the August 9, 2001 Sbarro Pizza suicide bombing, but was released in the 2011 Gilad Schalit prisoner exchange.
> 
> 15 civilians were killed in the midday attack, including 7 children and a pregnant woman, and 130 were wounded. Tamimi scouted for a target before leading the bomber, Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri, to the restaurant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan cannot extradite Ahlam Tamimi because it would violate their own laws.
Click to expand...


remember _that one, sbarros..._.  and "tamimi" - a creep 

 of a person.  has malice..."scoping out targets." then got a free get-out-of-jail-card. _hope all is well_ ....


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
Click to expand...


Actually, nationality by birth (_jus soli_) is rare.  Only 30 countries of the 194 in the world offer birthright citizenship.  The other 164 countries base nationality on lineage _(jus sanguinis_).  Both Israel and Palestine follow _jus sanguinis_.  So nationality follows the nationality of one's parents and is not dependent on your place of birth (with some notable exceptions.  I, for example, have US citizenship due to my birthplace).


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but sovereignty cannot be acquired by force.



Israel's military and CIVIL control over Area C was not acquired by force.  It was "acquired" (actually confirmed) by treaty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
Click to expand...


If there is such a thing as "Palestinian nationality", then you can't argue that the laws of State succession have deprived Palestinians of their nationality.  And Arabs living in Palestine or in the other successor State (Jordan) by definition are nationals living in their country of nationality and therefore CAN NOT be considered refugees.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, for heavens sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not an element of force. In the case of the Middle East, the Arabs were the aggressors (1948, 1967, 1973).
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That would be all the participating Arab League Nations that were interfereing by force in the Israeli efforts of self-determination IAW the UN Recommendation and the cooperation of the UN Palestine Commission _(the successor government)_.  This would also include the Hostile Arab Palestinians of the Holy War Army and the Arab Liberation Army.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Defending yourself from a foreign settler colonial project is terrorism.

Yeah, I know where you are coming from.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is nationality of individuals determined in international law?
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by territory. Birth and blood. Palestinians born in Palestine are Palestinians by birth and blood. Children born of Palestinian refugees are Palestine by blood. Their parents are Palestinian nationals. We see this in the US. John McCain was born in Panama by US nationals. Ted Cruz was born in Canada by US nationals. Both are considered US nationals.
> 
> Nationality by birth alone can get political even though it is common.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, nationality by birth (_jus soli_) is rare.  Only 30 countries of the 194 in the world offer birthright citizenship.  The other 164 countries base nationality on lineage _(jus sanguinis_).  Both Israel and Palestine follow _jus sanguinis_.  So nationality follows the nationality of one's parents and is not dependent on your place of birth (with some notable exceptions.  I, for example, have US citizenship due to my birthplace).
Click to expand...

Indeed, Palestinians are Palestinians no matter where they were born. Arafat, for example, was born in Egypt but his parents were Palestinian. So legally he was a Palestinian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, for heavens sake.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not an element of force. In the case of the Middle East, the Arabs were the aggressors (1948, 1967, 1973).
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That would be all the participating Arab League Nations that were interfereing by force in the Israeli efforts of self-determination IAW the UN Recommendation and the cooperation of the UN Palestine Commission _(the successor government)_.  This would also include the Hostile Arab Palestinians of the Holy War Army and the Arab Liberation Army.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Defending yourself from a foreign settler colonial project is terrorism.
> 
> Yeah, I know where you are coming from.
Click to expand...


Obviously, you’re lamenting the fact that the Jewish people have been successful and productive in establishing their national home. That was done in accordance with the desire and intent of the Mandate. That obviously is an affront to the Islamist psyche as insensate Jew hatred is a part of your ideology. The success of the Jewish people vs.the ineptitude and failures of Arabs-Moslems grinds away at you. You become more angry and resentful with every passing day.

Take the steps necessary to improve your miserable life. Consider some quality time with Dareen Tatour finding phrases that rhyme with gee-had.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are missing an entirely different set of concepts.

The 1948 Jewish "Settlers" _(as you call them)_ were immigrants to the Region; invited by the Government of Palestine _(the Allied Powers appointing Great Britain) _to affect the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).  There was not then, there is not now, nor has there ever been a true political or genealogical connection between the Jewish Immigrants and the British lead Palestine Government other than that which was assigned government.(Great Britain).



P F Tinmore said:


> Defending yourself from a foreign settler colonial project is terrorism.
> Yeah, I know where you are coming from.


*(COMMENT)*

The idea that the Arab Palestinians were defending themselves against the Jewish aggression is so outrageous that mere words cannot really define it.

Similarly, today → the very notion that the Jewish people making settlements in Area "C" _(under full Israeli control via the Oslo Accords)_ were the aggressors → is just as equally outrageous.    

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The 1948 Jewish "Settlers" _(as you call them)_ were immigrants to the Region; invited by the Government of Palestine


The immigration policy was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The idea that the Arab Palestinians were defending themselves against the Jewish aggression is so outrageous that mere words cannot really define it.


Interesting opinion. Do you have anything to back that up?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Reunited with Rasmea and it feels so good. Only made more delightful because we got to deliver copies of her book, TOWARDS THE SUN, an edited anthology of essays written by the women Rasmea organized and worked with in the Arab Women's Committee of the Arab American Action Network, published in Arabic and English by Tadween Publishing. Rasmea had to leave before the book project was complete and since then it is already developing its own life in the US and will develop a new one in Jordan and beyond. You continue to inspire Rasmea and we are so much better because of you. Get your copy of her book now! https://tadweenpublishing.com/products/towards-the-sun


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces destroyed Palestinian home in Bet Hanina town in the occupied city of #Jerusalem.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Palestinians are Palestinians no matter where they were born. Arafat, for example, was born in Egypt but his parents were Palestinian. So legally he was a Palestinian.



Okay.  But then you can't claim that their right of return is based on them being deprived of their nationality, can you?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces destroyed Palestinian home in Bet Hanina town in the occupied city of #Jerusalem.



Jerusalem was occupied before 1967.  Since then it’s been liberated


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Who the hell is "Lama Khater?"  Lama Khater is an amateur blogger and contributing opinion writer for such pro-terrorist organizations such as al-Jazeera, the HAMAS-affiliated Quds News Network (QNN) _(primarily composed of freelance wanna-be correspondents and 60 volunteers ambulance chasing story writers)_.  She does not have a true portfolio due to not having a prior professional experience as a journalist.
> 
> Lama Khater is one of those people that attempts to pretend they are an unbiased source of eye-witness accounts that contribute to the incitement of terrorist acts, that motivates extremist activity and poses a serious danger to human rights.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Free  Lama Khater" poster
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is little question as to the importance of the role of the media in the creation of a productive dialogue and in promoting tolerance in fostering an environment which is not conducive to incitement of terrorism.  However, Lama Khater makes no such contribution.  She, instead, does the opposite and attempts to be the center of attention by playing the part of a heroine; one caught in the middle of a freedom of the press issue.
> 
> Lama Khater is NOT a person who acts with extraordinary courage. On the contrary, Lama Khater has been charged in connection with inciting "hostile" activities against Israeli soldiers and settlers.  She has been promoting Jihadism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  Pro-Arab Palestinian forces are using organizations like the Palestinian Prisoner Society (PPS) _(no better than a fraternal organization of gangsters)_ and The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) to gain sympathy; changing the story from "why she was apprehended," to focusing on the fact of it is a "detention of a journalist."
> 
> Just my thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The immigration policy was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.



You mean like the Great March of Return is trying to impose on Israel at the point of a flaming kite and some homemade bombs?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Reunited with Rasmea and it feels so good. Only made more delightful because we got to deliver copies of her book, TOWARDS THE SUN, an edited anthology of essays written by the women Rasmea organized and worked with in the Arab Women's Committee of the Arab American Action Network, published in Arabic and English by Tadween Publishing. Rasmea had to leave before the book project was complete and since then it is already developing its own life in the US and will develop a new one in Jordan and beyond. You continue to inspire Rasmea and we are so much better because of you. Get your copy of her book now! https://tadweenpublishing.com/products/towards-the-sun



Aww. Isn’t it nice that a young girl has a psychopath for a friend. 

Gee whiz, think of the lessons learned that the mass murderer can pass on to a child.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces destroyed Palestinian home in Bet Hanina town in the occupied city of #Jerusalem.



Why were Islamics squatting on land that was not theirs?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 Jewish "Settlers" _(as you call them)_ were immigrants to the Region; invited by the Government of Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration policy was imposed on Palestine at the point of a gun.
Click to expand...


_Somebody_ had to clean the place up.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pallywood!

Such amateurs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

No animal abuse is intended...


----------



## Hossfly

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for the animal abuse...
Click to expand...

A kiss for Tinmore


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*

Everything about the trial of Dareen Tatour was like fiction. Everything required the willing suspension of disbelief.

From the opening pages, it was impossible to digest the premise that an unknown young poet from a small town in the Galilee would be hauled off by Israeli police and border guards for a smattering of posts on the internet.

By page two, the story became more and more farfetched. What seasoned, judicious reader could buy into the idea that the protagonist would be interrogated, imprisoned, and criminally charged for saying the same things that millions of people around the world say every single day, only with more urgency and flair?

*The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*
> 
> Everything about the trial of Dareen Tatour was like fiction. Everything required the willing suspension of disbelief.
> 
> From the opening pages, it was impossible to digest the premise that an unknown young poet from a small town in the Galilee would be hauled off by Israeli police and border guards for a smattering of posts on the internet.
> 
> By page two, the story became more and more farfetched. What seasoned, judicious reader could buy into the idea that the protagonist would be interrogated, imprisoned, and criminally charged for saying the same things that millions of people around the world say every single day, only with more urgency and flair?
> 
> *The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*



Never thought that a call to violence and suicide by Islamic Jihad
is considered "poetry"


----------



## rylah

*Norwegian human rights organization @GNDD_NGO has been operated by Palestinian intelligence and has concealed millions of dollars from donations.*






The organization's director, Louis Deeb, a Palestinian who received Norwegian citizenship in 2001, is accused of concealing millions of the organization's money and secretly holding a Palestinian diplomatic passport.Internal documents show that Palestinian intelligence operated the organization behind the scenes and even held senior positions in the organization.

In 2013 the organization began to receive money from the UAE, which led the authorities in Norway to follow its funding sources. In 2015, Deeb was charged with money laundering and today he is accused of embezzlement, money laundering, immigration and customs violations and forgery.

Full article: NRK reveals: Norwegian foreign aid executive received support from Palestinian intelligence


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel*

An Israeli court sentenced Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour to five months in prison on Tuesday over a handful of social media posts and a poem.

Tatour was convicted for “incitement to violence” and “support of terrorist organizations” on 3 May.

“I expected prison, and unfortunately there is prison,” Tatour told Al Jazeera following the sentencing.

“There is nothing surprising. This is an Israeli court and there is no justice in an Israeli court when the accused is Palestinian.”

“My trial was political right from the start,” Tatour added.

Tatour, 36, is from the Arab village of Reineh near Nazareth.

She was first arrested in October 2015 over social media posts and a poem called “Resist, My People, Resist Them.”






Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel*
> 
> An Israeli court sentenced Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour to five months in prison on Tuesday over a handful of social media posts and a poem.
> 
> Tatour was convicted for “incitement to violence” and “support of terrorist organizations” on 3 May.
> 
> “I expected prison, and unfortunately there is prison,” Tatour told Al Jazeera following the sentencing.
> 
> “There is nothing surprising. This is an Israeli court and there is no justice in an Israeli court when the accused is Palestinian.”
> 
> “My trial was political right from the start,” Tatour added.
> 
> Tatour, 36, is from the Arab village of Reineh near Nazareth.
> 
> She was first arrested in October 2015 over social media posts and a poem called “Resist, My People, Resist Them.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel




Dareen is an Israeli citizen, she publicly declared to be the next warrior martyr,
and posted a call by Islamic Jihad  for murder.

*Q. What would a US citizen get for doing the same?*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel*
> 
> An Israeli court sentenced Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour to five months in prison on Tuesday over a handful of social media posts and a poem.
> 
> Tatour was convicted for “incitement to violence” and “support of terrorist organizations” on 3 May.
> 
> “I expected prison, and unfortunately there is prison,” Tatour told Al Jazeera following the sentencing.
> 
> “There is nothing surprising. This is an Israeli court and there is no justice in an Israeli court when the accused is Palestinian.”
> 
> “My trial was political right from the start,” Tatour added.
> 
> Tatour, 36, is from the Arab village of Reineh near Nazareth.
> 
> She was first arrested in October 2015 over social media posts and a poem called “Resist, My People, Resist Them.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel



I'm not surprised that the propaganda mouthpieces at the electronic gee-had used "eminent" in their description. When you make heroes of Islamic terrorist mass murderers and those who invite to violence using religious tenets as the rallying call, you have entered the realm of the fanatic and the religiously insane.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians celebrate release of Ahed Tamimi *

Israeli military forces released Palestinian teenager
Ahed Tamimi and her mother Nariman from prison on Sunday.

The pair were given a hero’s welcome in their occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh and their release was covered by world media:





Ahed Tamimi, center, and her mother Nariman speak at a press conference in the occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh near Ramallah on 29 July, upon their release after spending eight months in Israeli prison.

 Shadi Hatem APA images


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*
> 
> Everything about the trial of Dareen Tatour was like fiction. Everything required the willing suspension of disbelief.
> 
> From the opening pages, it was impossible to digest the premise that an unknown young poet from a small town in the Galilee would be hauled off by Israeli police and border guards for a smattering of posts on the internet.
> 
> By page two, the story became more and more farfetched. What seasoned, judicious reader could buy into the idea that the protagonist would be interrogated, imprisoned, and criminally charged for saying the same things that millions of people around the world say every single day, only with more urgency and flair?
> 
> *The story of Dareen Tatour is the story of Falasteen*



More like the story of your hero Rasmea Odeh and others who suffer from the same debilitating disease.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians celebrate release of Ahed Tamimi *
> 
> Israeli military forces released Palestinian teenager
> Ahed Tamimi and her mother Nariman from prison on Sunday.
> 
> The pair were given a hero’s welcome in their occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh and their release was covered by world media:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi, center, and her mother Nariman speak at a press conference in the occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh near Ramallah on 29 July, upon their release after spending eight months in Israeli prison.
> 
> Shadi Hatem APA images



*Jerusalem stabber was discharged despite ‘violent’ behavior*





Jamil Tamimi, who murdered a British exchange student in Jerusalem, had been released from a psychiatric hospital despite his having exhibited violent behavior whilst in their care. He has been declared fit to stand trial.

Jamil Tamimi - Jerusalem stubber


----------



## Hollie

*Advocates for Terror: Why Ahed Tamimi and Her Family are No Heroes*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Your question is a matter of "domestic law."

Excerpts
*18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions*

(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A)  involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B)  appear to be intended—
*(i)  to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii)  to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii)  to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and*​*18 U.S. Code § 2332 - Criminal penalties*
b)  Attempt or Conspiracy With Respect to Homicide.—Whoever outside the United States attempts to kill, or engages in a conspiracy to kill, a national of the United States shall—
(1)  in the case of an attempt to commit a killing that is a murder as defined in this chapter, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
*(2)  in the case of a conspiracy by two or more persons to commit a killing that is a murder as defined in section 1111(a) of this title, if one or more of such persons do any overt act to effect the object of the conspiracy, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both so fined and so imprisoned.*​


rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel*
> 
> An Israeli court sentenced Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour to five months in prison on Tuesday over a handful of social media posts and a poem.
> 
> Tatour was convicted for “incitement to violence” and “support of terrorist organizations” on 3 May.
> 
> “I expected prison, and unfortunately there is prison,” Tatour told Al Jazeera following the sentencing.
> 
> “There is nothing surprising. This is an Israeli court and there is no justice in an Israeli court when the accused is Palestinian.”
> 
> “My trial was political right from the start,” Tatour added.
> 
> Tatour, 36, is from the Arab village of Reineh near Nazareth.
> 
> She was first arrested in October 2015 over social media posts and a poem called “Resist, My People, Resist Them.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen is an Israeli citizen, she publicly declared to be the next warrior martyr,
> and posted a call by Islamic Jihad  for murder.
> 
> *Q. What would a US citizen get for doing the same?*
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Each country's laws are different. 

In the United States, it is a matter of an "overt act" → if one or more of such persons do any overt act to effect (intimidation, coercion, influence policy) the object of the conspiracy is subject to:

A:  *fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both so fined and so imprisoned.*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Your question is a matter of "domestic law."
> 
> Excerpts
> *18 U.S. Code § 2331 - Definitions*
> (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
> (A)  involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
> (B)  appear to be intended—
> *(i)  to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
> (ii)  to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
> (iii)  to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and*​*18 U.S. Code § 2332 - Criminal penalties*
> b)  Attempt or Conspiracy With Respect to Homicide.—Whoever outside the United States attempts to kill, or engages in a conspiracy to kill, a national of the United States shall—
> (1)  in the case of an attempt to commit a killing that is a murder as defined in this chapter, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
> *(2)  in the case of a conspiracy by two or more persons to commit a killing that is a murder as defined in section 1111(a) of this title, if one or more of such persons do any overt act to effect the object of the conspiracy, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both so fined and so imprisoned.*​
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel*
> 
> An Israeli court sentenced Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour to five months in prison on Tuesday over a handful of social media posts and a poem.
> 
> Tatour was convicted for “incitement to violence” and “support of terrorist organizations” on 3 May.
> 
> “I expected prison, and unfortunately there is prison,” Tatour told Al Jazeera following the sentencing.
> 
> “There is nothing surprising. This is an Israeli court and there is no justice in an Israeli court when the accused is Palestinian.”
> 
> “My trial was political right from the start,” Tatour added.
> 
> Tatour, 36, is from the Arab village of Reineh near Nazareth.
> 
> She was first arrested in October 2015 over social media posts and a poem called “Resist, My People, Resist Them.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour joins eminent Palestinian writers persecuted by Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen is an Israeli citizen, she publicly declared to be the next warrior martyr,
> and posted a call by Islamic Jihad  for murder.
> 
> *Q. What would a US citizen get for doing the same?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Each country's laws are different.
> 
> In the United States, it is a matter of an "overt act" → if one or more of such persons do any overt act to effect (intimidation, coercion, influence policy) the object of the conspiracy is subject to:
> 
> A:  *fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both so fined and so imprisoned.*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, ???


----------



## Hossfly

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians celebrate release of Ahed Tamimi *
> 
> Israeli military forces released Palestinian teenager
> Ahed Tamimi and her mother Nariman from prison on Sunday.
> 
> The pair were given a hero’s welcome in their occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh and their release was covered by world media:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahed Tamimi, center, and her mother Nariman speak at a press conference in the occupied West Bank village of Nabi Saleh near Ramallah on 29 July, upon their release after spending eight months in Israeli prison.
> 
> Shadi Hatem APA images


They are ex-cons now. Impressive.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Greg Shupak on the arrest of Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> * Greg Shupak on the arrest of Palestinian 16-year-old Ahed*



What a shame that the Tamimi tribe has such a history of anti-social (Islamic terrorist) behavior. 

Ahed Tamimi’s terrorism runs in the family


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How America Fuels Israel Palestine Conflict (w/ Rashid Khalidi)*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *How America Fuels Israel Palestine Conflict (w/ Rashid Khalidi)*



Pretty typical for Islamics. *I blame the Great Satan*™️

Fix the things that make you incompetent and inept and you will improve your lives. 

It’s important to point out that it is not the *Great Satan*™️ which is the cause for Islamics casting terrorist ideologies. Those ideologies come straight from your co-religionists who have a wealth of material in your Korans to justify their atrocities. Just for your clarification, In the warped calculus of your Islamic _holy warrior_™ heroes, symbols of authority other than islam are legitimate targets. That’s why government leaders and representatives are often such targets of Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abir Kopty - Israeli Apartheid Week 2013*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Occupation extends detention of Palestinian writer Lama Khater in its prisons till the 10th of October.







Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian protesters down an Israeli teargas drone at Gaza borders .


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian protesters down an Israeli teargas drone at Gaza borders .




Islamic welfare recipients have lots of free time to riot and burn tires without a job to interrupt their quality outdoor time.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another Arab-Moslem tradition.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## RoccoR

Palestine Today
 ※→  Hollie, et al,

It is not uncommon _(not uncommon at all)_ for the undiciplined or psychopathic _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ to intentionally select a person or thing that is relatively unprotected, incapable of a defense, or vulnerable to sudden death approaches, especially to military or terrorist attack.



Hollie said:


>


Popular among radical organizations and factions fighting under the Islamic banner are selected soft targets in the accopmlishment of their discretionary attacks _(Soft Targets)_.   For those missions with aim on various  public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places → violence and intimidation are the desired outcome, especially against civilians, the purpose of which is in the pursuit of political causes.

These surveillance programs are very using in the identification of perpetrators and the description of a specific event itself.  But, they are not an effective deterent.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> It is not uncommon _(not uncommon at all)_ for the undiciplined or psychopathic _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ to intentionally select a person or thing that is relatively unprotected, incapable of a defense, or vulnerable to sudden death approaches, especially to military or terrorist attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Popular among radical organizations and factions fighting under the Islamic banner are selected soft targets in the accopmlishment of their discretionary attacks _(Soft Targets)_.   For those missions with aim on various  public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public places → violence and intimidation are the desired outcome, especially against civilians, the purpose of which is in the pursuit of political causes.
> 
> These surveillance programs are very using in the identification of perpetrators and the description of a specific event itself.  But, they are not an effective deterent.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel wants to make it illegal to film Israelis attacking Palestinians. That happens much more often than Palestinians attacking Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Diana Buttu: "Grassroots movements like the Great Return March in Gaza, and protests in villages like Nabi Saleh, have suggested that the weakening of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, along with the likely death of the two-state solution, may already be giving rise to new citizen-led movements engaged in direct action against the occupation."

MORE: Even Israeli Officials Are Warning That Trump's Moves Against Palestinians May Backfire.
http://bit.ly/2MJ2PXq


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Balfour’s legacy continues to horrify*

This year marks the year of Palestinian anniversaries — many of them awful and arrogant — but some them courageous and exemplifying the strength of our people. One hundred years ago, this year, the colonial arrogance of Arthur Balfour — who, through the stroke of a pen — had declared Palestine the “homeland” to others, thereby beginning the start of Zionism’s colonial onslaught in Palestine. We have now entered into the 70th year of our dispossession; 70 years since the first massacres against us; 70 years of transforming Palestine from a Palestinian Arab nation by stealing 78 per cent of our homeland and 70 years of turning us into refugees or into strangers in our own homes. This year, sadly, also marks 50 years since the start of Israel’s Phase Two of colonisation of our land, when Israel completely took over the remaining 22 per cent of our homeland.

Balfour’s legacy continues to horrify


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Are American Jews losing interest in Israel?*
There are signs of an uneasiness as a result of increasing disenchantment within the Jewish community in the US

Are American Jews losing interest in Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Paris, avec Amour, de Gaza -- To Paris, with Love, from Gaza - Peintures de Malak Mattar*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ... 70 years of transforming Palestine from a Palestinian Arab nation ...



Did you want to also talk about the 3000 years of transforming Israel from a Jewish nation?  Because that is the essence of the Balfour Declaration.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *A Paris, avec Amour, de Gaza -- To Paris, with Love, from Gaza - Peintures de Malak Mattar*


 
Indeed, the young lady wearing her Islamic Shame Sack is carrying a Jordanian flag.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> *How America Fuels Israel Palestine Conflict (w/ Rashid Khalidi)*
> 
> **



_Oh, shut-up....._


*"Trump admin. closing Palestine Liberation Organization D.C. office"*

Trump admin. closing Palestine Liberation Organization D.C. office

*"The Trump administration has informed the Palestinian government that its primary office in Washington D.C. will be closed, deepening a rift with the Palestinians and drawing cries of a "dangerous escalation" from their leadership.*

*The move, which U.S. officials were yet to confirm on Monday morning, comes after the White House said over the weekend that it was cutting *

* $25 million in funding for health services in heavily-Palestinian East Jerusalem."*













[URL='http://s475.photobucket.com/user/Angelintown/media/Smiley%20diversen/kantoor.gif.html']
	
 

[/URL]​[URL='http://s717.photobucket.com/user/prestonjjrtr/media/Smileys/SmileyMoneyLots.gif.html']

[URL='http://s165.photobucket.com/user/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/media/Work%20job%20computer%20TV%20and%20phone%20related/3_4_10v.gif.html']
	
 

 

[/URL]​[URL='http://s717.photobucket.com/user/prestonjjrtr/media/Smileys/SmileyMoneyLots.gif.html']









​





​











Good.[/URL][/URL]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What is Feminist Research Series with Leslie Quintanilla and Jennifer Mogannam*

**


----------



## Hollie

Feminist Research in Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

So, what has allegedly happened in this video?



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Did he fall down and bump his knee?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

The Allied Powers at the San Remo Conference (1920) agreed to the Mandate that would further the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).



P F Tinmore said:


> *Balfour’s legacy continues to horrify*
> 
> This year marks the year of Palestinian anniversaries — many of them awful and arrogant — but some them courageous and exemplifying the strength of our people. One hundred years ago, this year, the colonial arrogance of Arthur Balfour — who, through the stroke of a pen — had declared Palestine the “homeland” to others, thereby beginning the start of Zionism’s colonial onslaught in Palestine. We have now entered into the 70th year of our dispossession; 70 years since the first massacres against us; 70 years of transforming Palestine from a Palestinian Arab nation by stealing 78 per cent of our homeland and 70 years of turning us into refugees or into strangers in our own homes. This year, sadly, also marks 50 years since the start of Israel’s Phase Two of colonisation of our land, when Israel completely took over the remaining 22 per cent of our homeland.
> 
> Balfour’s legacy continues to horrify


*(COMMENT)*

In fact, the preamble of the Mandate (1922) specifically states:

The Principal Allied Powers have agreed;
Putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917 (Balfour Declaration);
For reconstituting their national home;
The Article 2 of the Mandate further promoted the:

Development of self-governing institutions;
Establishment of the Jewish National Home;
The Arab Palestinians have declined to participate in the self-governing institution program: 



			
				UN Record A/AC.14/8  2 October 1947 said:
			
		

> Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognized that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognized the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.



The Arab Palestinians can be "horrified" all they want.  It is through their nonfeasance _(rejecting in participation in self-governing programs)_ that, in part, contributed to the conditions the Arab Palestinians now call so "horrifying."

The Arab Palestinians are not all that bright.  They cut their foot off and then complain; → because they place last in the foot race.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Feminist Research in Gaza.



What else do you expect from the Uncivilized?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Are American Jews losing interest in Israel?*
> There are signs of an uneasiness as a result of increasing disenchantment within the Jewish community in the US
> 
> Are American Jews losing interest in Israel?



Sorry to disappoint you but where there may be differences most of the Jewish people regardless of where they come from or whether they are Orthodox , Reform, etc. do NOT agree on “ Right of Return” or going back to Borders that were never recognized to begin with.   They do not agree in giving up ALL of E. Jerusalem which includes their HolySites and therefore Access to them forbidden. If you REALLY believe that you are more delusional then I thought.  NICE TRY !!!!! .


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feminist Research in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What else do you expect from the Uncivilized?
Click to expand...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feminist Research in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What else do you expect from the Uncivilized?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Deflection. American Jews don’t want a Jewish State but O.K . With a “ Palestinian State” that has OPENLY Declared its Racism and Apartheid against Israeli Jews??


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *What is Feminist Research Series with Leslie Quintanilla and Jennifer Mogannam*
> 
> **




Uh huh.  "Israel was literally founded 70 years ago, on May 14, 1948". 

Translation:  If we erase thousands of years of Jewish history, you'll see that Israel is obviously settler colonialist and only 70 years old.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feminist Research in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What else do you expect from the Uncivilized?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Indeed, you tried your best to put Israeli soldiers in a bad light. You managed perhaps four instances from an old video, apparently staged as the photographers were scrambling to keep out of the way. 

Let me know if you are prepared for a discussion on the social, political and economic status of women in Israel vs. the women of Gaza, the West Bank or the Islamist world in general.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Battle for justice in Pal’istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Daoud Nassar speaks about the Tent of Nations project Just outside of Bethlehem.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Al Sabawi - Keeping Palestine Cool: A Different Kind of Underground Movement*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*From smaller prison to bigger prison.*

*Israel imposes travel ban on Palestinian resistance icon Tamimi and her family*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

My beautiful Gaza


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I understand that everyone likes to have a hero _(or in this case a heroine)_. 

I watched the two recent videos posted by our esteemed friend (P F Tinmore); Posting #5291 The Paramedic _(Razan al-Najjar)_ and Posting # 5292 The Juvenile Delinquent _(Ahed Tamimi)_.  In both cases, the video is focuses on the "helpless" female angle being unnecessarily physical attacked by an overwhelming force. 

•  They are both organized along the strategy of the "Appeal to Emotion _(also known as: argument by vehemence, playing on emotions, emotional appeal, for the children)_." 
■  The Paramedic was allegedly shot in the chest by an unknown Israeli sniper.
■   The Juvenile Delinquent allegedly "slapped"  an Israeli "soldier" which invaded her home without a warrant." ​The Paramedic was allegedly shot approximately 25m from the Boundary Barrier while treating another Palestinian.  Witnesses say she was clearing a "Medical Uniform."   Clearly, the implication of the story going around is that the Israelis were in violation of Rule #25 Customary IHL. _(Medical personnel exclusively assigned to medical duties must be respected and protected in all circumstances. They lose their protection if they commit, outside their humanitarian function, acts harmful to the enemy.)_  We all know that HAMAS has been known to use Medical Uniforms, Medical Facilities, and Medical Vehicles to accomplish their hostile missions.  The Case to be made here is not about what they were wearing or what they claim they were doing, BUT what it might have appeared to be by the Israelis patroling the border.

In the case of the Juenile Delinquent, it was clear that the incident occurred on the road between Tamimi and a Police Patrol.  It was not in the residence, it was not a confrontation with the IDF, and it was not spontanious.  It was clearly a NOT a case a non-violent protest. 

Videos like the ones posted by P F Tinmore are videos that attempt to raise sympathetic support to civil disorder and "to influence public opinion in the area in a manner that could well disturb public safety or public order.”

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.
Click to expand...


I'll borrow your preferred style of argumentation.

Can you prove they're not?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll borrow your preferred style of argumentation.
> 
> Can you prove they're not?
Click to expand...

If there was ever a time that they were called terrorists in Palestine, I have never seen it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll borrow your preferred style of argumentation.
> 
> Can you prove they're not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there was ever a time that they were called terrorists in Palestine, I have never seen it.
Click to expand...


No proof, huh?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.
Click to expand...


You're letting your hurt feelings cloud any rational, objective analysis.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In the case of the Juenile Delinquent, it was clear that the incident occurred on the road between Tamimi and a Police Patrol. It was not in the residence, it was not a confrontation with the IDF, and it was not spontanious. It was clearly a NOT a case a non-violent protest.


The soldier was in her village and in her yard for no legitimate reason and she instructed him to leave. He did not. That was the problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your hurt feelings cloud any rational, objective analysis.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your hurt feelings cloud any rational, objective analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


More of Israel's terrorist canard.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist canard.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your hurt feelings cloud any rational, objective analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat.
Click to expand...

I am not going anywhere.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist canard.
Click to expand...


Rather odd that you define islamic terrorists as heroes. It's as though you share the same Korans and the same pathology.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign name callers trying to change Palestinian domestic policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're letting your hurt feelings cloud any rational, objective analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your usual retreat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not going anywhere.
Click to expand...


Waving the flag of surrender.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll borrow your preferred style of argumentation.
> 
> Can you prove they're not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there was ever a time that they were called terrorists in Palestine, I have never seen it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No proof, huh?
Click to expand...

Can't prove a negative. I am just saying that I have never seen such an incident.

Do you have any proof of the positive?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of Israel's terrorist canard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rather odd that you define islamic terrorists as heroes. It's as though you share the same Korans and the same pathology.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I have never even seen a Koran.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is full of crap. Those people are not terrorists in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll borrow your preferred style of argumentation.
> 
> Can you prove they're not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there was ever a time that they were called terrorists in Palestine, I have never seen it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No proof, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't prove a negative. I am just saying that I have never seen such an incident.
> 
> Do you have any proof of the positive?
Click to expand...


Can't prove a negative? Why not? That typifies your attempt at argument.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Israel has a very elaborate terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a very elaborate terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


You have a very sloppy view of reality.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.


This is Hannan Ashrawi.


What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Mr. Sour Grapes. All he does is bitch, bitch, bitch.

He also has a show on our local right wingnut radio station.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> More on the use of water and the suffering of the Palestinian people as a weapon:
> 
> _Today, the Palestinians consume some 200 million cubic meters of water per annum in Judea and Samaria. The Palestinians could easily raise that amount by at least 50 percent, without any additional assistance or allocation from the State of Israel. This would require several simple actions:
> 
> If the Palestinians were to begin drilling the Eastern Mountain Aquifer, at the sites already approved for drilling, they very quickly would secure an additional 50 million cubic meters of water per year.
> 
> If the Palestinians were to reduce urban water waste from 33 percent to 20 percent by fixing the main leaks in their urban water pipes (something that can be done without great effort), they would immediately benefit from 10 million additional cubic meters of water per annum.
> 
> If the Palestinians were to collect and treat their urban waste water, they would gain at least 30 million cubic meters of water a year. This would free up 30 million cubic meters (per annum) of fresh water, currently used for agriculture, for home usage. This would allow them both to improve their urban water supply and to expand agricultural lands._
> 
> _If the Palestinians were to adopt drip irrigation technology, they would save 10 million cubic meters a year. This would allow them to expand their irrigated lands.
> 
> In the Gaza Strip, too, the Palestinians could easily double the amount of water available, without additional assistance from the State of Israel. If the Palestinians agreed to build a desalination plant on the Gaza coast (funded entirely by the international community), they would increase the amount of water available by 60 to 100 million cubic meters a year. If they fix leakages, treat and recycle sewage, and adopt drip irrigation, they would double their water allocation, as well.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority’s deleterious policies – as evidenced in the six facts listed above – are a function of the Palestinian water war against Israel. There is no real Palestinian desire to solve water problems; they prefer to perpetuate the water problems in order to besmirch the State of Israel. They view water as a tool with which to bash Israel.
> 
> _


WATCH: Palestinians Torture Boy Who Hit Son of Hamas Commander

 This is the " culture" they are so proud of


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


 
Don't think you realize what you posted!  The first " goal" is the 67 Borders and the second goal are the " 48 Borders" !!  Just more proof they do not respect or want the " TWO STATE SOLUTION" !!
 Someone else stated they should " Go back to Europe",  Just more proof that if Israel is stupid enough to allow this ( they wont) the only thing that will result is a Civil War and the Goal of Israel's destruction.  KEEP POSTING!!!!!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



They are nothing but animals. I apologize to the animals; they are SAVAGES


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
Click to expand...


Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.

Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.


It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
Click to expand...


Don’t tell him that.... You’ll ruin his day. He’s too full of Hate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
Click to expand...

Indeed,






I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I understand that everyone likes to have a hero _(or in this case a heroine)_.
> 
> I watched the two recent videos posted by our esteemed friend (P F Tinmore); Posting #5291 The Paramedic _(Razan al-Najjar)_ and Posting # 5292 The Juvenile Delinquent _(Ahed Tamimi)_.  In both cases, the video is focuses on the "helpless" female angle being unnecessarily physical attacked by an overwhelming force.
> 
> •  They are both organized along the strategy of the "Appeal to Emotion _(also known as: argument by vehemence, playing on emotions, emotional appeal, for the children)_."
> ■  The Paramedic was allegedly shot in the chest by an unknown Israeli sniper.
> ■   The Juvenile Delinquent allegedly "slapped"  an Israeli "soldier" which invaded her home without a warrant."​The Paramedic was allegedly shot approximately 25m from the Boundary Barrier while treating another Palestinian.  Witnesses say she was clearing a "Medical Uniform."   Clearly, the implication of the story going around is that the Israelis were in violation of Rule #25 Customary IHL. _(Medical personnel exclusively assigned to medical duties must be respected and protected in all circumstances. They lose their protection if they commit, outside their humanitarian function, acts harmful to the enemy.)_  We all know that HAMAS has been known to use Medical Uniforms, Medical Facilities, and Medical Vehicles to accomplish their hostile missions.  The Case to be made here is not about what they were wearing or what they claim they were doing, BUT what it might have appeared to be by the Israelis patroling the border.
> 
> In the case of the Juenile Delinquent, it was clear that the incident occurred on the road between Tamimi and a Police Patrol.  It was not in the residence, it was not a confrontation with the IDF, and it was not spontanious.  It was clearly a NOT a case a non-violent protest.
> 
> Videos like the ones posted by P F Tinmore are videos that attempt to raise sympathetic support to civil disorder and "to influence public opinion in the area in a manner that could well disturb public safety or public order.”
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


THEN,Much like what the Zionists have been doing for over 60 years you Ras Claat


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.
Click to expand...


Give me a break,
You sound like a 5 year old sore loser.

I'm not sure there's anyone as qualified to run a state among the Arabs,
can You show me one with real education and potential?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give me a break,
> You sound like a 5 year old sore loser.
> 
> I'm not sure there's anyone as qualified to run a state among the Arabs,
> can You show me one with real education and potential?
Click to expand...

Here is one. Israel arrested him so he could not campaign.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give me a break,
> You sound like a 5 year old sore loser.
> 
> I'm not sure there's anyone as qualified to run a state among the Arabs,
> can You show me one with real education and potential?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is one. Israel arrested him so he could not campaign.
Click to expand...


How is a PLO chief Propaganda minister fit to run a state?
You've got  communist doctors and a literature master playing against top-shelf managers and professionally qualified statesmen.

Hence the results, You keep pounding the _'PLO traitors' _slogans, then shove me some more PLO impostors as the next potential leaders. They've played You well, and now You're running in circles contradicting oneself.

Q. P F Tinmore Isn't that called chasing one's tale? 
Or purely madness?


----------



## rylah

Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Give me a break,
> You sound like a 5 year old sore loser.
> 
> I'm not sure there's anyone as qualified to run a state among the Arabs,
> can You show me one with real education and potential?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is one. Israel arrested him so he could not campaign.
Click to expand...


Your usual conspiracy theory tripe.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Gaza children your Islamic terrorist heroes waged war among?


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islamic terrorists are insulted that anyone would deny their welfare fraud payments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Hannan Ashrawi.
> 
> 
> What do you have for fucktard Netenyahu?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your PLO Boris has 3 real degrees all in Literature.
> 
> Netanyahu was one of the top students at MIT, he has finished 2 degrees in Architecture and Management in 1975-6, all while interrupted to serve as an elite soldier during war and anti-terror operations, there was also a doctorate in political science and consulting in one of the most prestigious management consulting firms.
> 
> 
> It is like comparing a WV Beetle to a F-16i.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping you would post a speech where he would say something intelligent.
Click to expand...


...a much better "statesman" (someone in "charge") .........than............






well..........._you know_:



_*Them.*_












*terrorists.*
_(.....i mean really!)_


​


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feminist Research in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What else do you expect from the Uncivilized?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed, you tried your best to put Israeli soldiers in a bad light. You managed perhaps four instances from an old video, apparently staged as the photographers were scrambling to keep out of the way.
> 
> Let me know if you are prepared for a discussion on the social, political and economic status of women in Israel vs. the women of Gaza, the West Bank or the Islamist world in general.
Click to expand...





​


 You know how I feel about it……


​





 

That finger -- it's so familiar !!




[URL='http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zhangkriek/media/KhaledMisal3.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]


[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']

[URL='http://s217.photobucket.com/user/tiby93/media/azzam.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]​[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']




[URL='http://s217.photobucket.com/user/tiby93/media/alghamdi.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]​[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']






[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Junk%20Drawer/buddahblowup_zpsd7ff77aa.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]






[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']


[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/muslimalzwahari_zps5fad2b9c.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]​




​[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']


[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/boloharam-Nigeria_Extremist_Leader_20140507_zpsbd60618a.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]
[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']




[URL='http://s262.photobucket.com/user/deejayjeroen/media/Facebook/Profile%20Pictures/1601428_10151876423662400_1071227079_n.jpg.html']
	
[/URL]
[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']










[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/MAD/violent-smiley-1659.gif.html']
	
[/URL]​
[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html'][URL='http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/KOSHERREPORTS/media/140710123033-iraq-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-watch-story-top_zps83519868.jpg.html']
	​[/URL]​[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']





_i gotta get in on it...._

[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/MAD/thSarcastic.gif.html']
	
[/URL]​[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/Insane%20Asylum/iraniancavegovt.jpg.html']




[URL='http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/aliage75/media/DISCO%20DANCE%20EAT%20DRINK%20PARTY/9giy35.gif.html']
	
[/URL]​[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?


Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
Click to expand...



*"Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division"
*

*.... and his *

 *close [division] friends too?*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
Click to expand...


I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
My question was simple:

*Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
*who's professionally qualified to run a state?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
Click to expand...

Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.

BTW, is Abbas qualified to run a state?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
Click to expand...


So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
not one professionally fit to run a state?

Let that sink in for a moment...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
Click to expand...

Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.
Click to expand...




Show me at least one of those _"Palestinian leaders",_
who's professionally qualified to run a state.

Are there any?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there currently someone on the Arab side,
> who's qualified to run a state, and has the position to unite the fractions?
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.
Click to expand...


There is no president of "Pal'istan". Abbas is "president" of a welfare fraud / islamic terrorist syndicate otherwise known as the PA, or maybe It's the PLO. It's all a blur of phony titles.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas is the division. When he goes, so does the division.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me at least one of those _"Palestinian leaders",_
> who's professionally qualified to run a state.
> 
> Are there any?
Click to expand...

Sure, here are a few.

Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in fantasies or who You chose to blame this time for failures as a society.
> My question was simple:
> 
> *Is there any known candidate among the Palestinian politicians,*
> *who's professionally qualified to run a state?*
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, look in Israel's prisons. Any leader who pops his head up gets arrested. Dr. Mustafa Barghouti got arrested when campaigning for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So among all those Palestinian politicians and "leaders",
> not one professionally fit to run a state?
> 
> Let that sink in for another couple of days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Neither the president of Palestine nor the president of Israel run the state. Their job is mostly to select a government. (PM and his cabinet) Virtually all of the leaders in Palestine have advanced degrees in their respective fields. They all must be approved by the parliament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me at least one of those _"Palestinian leaders",_
> who's professionally qualified to run a state.
> 
> Are there any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, here are a few.
> 
> Palestinian National Unity Government of March 2007 - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Basically, you’re promoting a collection of Islamic terrorist misfits who couldn’t lead a Hamas terrorist summer camp let alone a working government.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another silly YouTube video with the nonsensical "apartheid" slogan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Abed Sabbah, a human rights activist in Jerusalem, has been arrested seven times by Israeli authorities and jailed and never charged with a crime. He describes the ceaseless harassment and night raids targeting families in East Jerusalem for daring to demonstrate against the colonization of the occupied city.

‘Teargas became my daily meal’ — the endless harassment of a Jerusalem neighborhood makes life unacceptable


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Abed Sabbah, a human rights activist in Jerusalem, has been arrested seven times by Israeli authorities and jailed and never charged with a crime. He describes the ceaseless harassment and night raids targeting families in East Jerusalem for daring to demonstrate against the colonization of the occupied city.
> 
> ‘Teargas became my daily meal’ — the endless harassment of a Jerusalem neighborhood makes life unacceptable



All your usual, silly slogans.

Ali is just another angry Islamist fascist who refuses any notion of Israel’s right to exist. Pretty typical for Islamist fascists.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Abed Sabbah, a human rights activist in Jerusalem, has been arrested seven times by Israeli authorities and jailed and never charged with a crime. He describes the ceaseless harassment and night raids targeting families in East Jerusalem for daring to demonstrate against the colonization of the occupied city.
> 
> ‘Teargas became my daily meal’ — the endless harassment of a Jerusalem neighborhood makes life unacceptable



Typical "poor me" attitude which erases any action or responsibility in the part of the "victim" as though Israeli law enforcement hangs around schools all day and randomly throws tear gas at people. 

More evidence of a fundamental anti-semitism.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Pretty typical for you Islamics to use and abuse children.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

When seeing organization members cheering Jihadis, share that information with the govt,
*Your seemingly simple action can make real and immediate change!

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh → Sometimes I think you intentionally mislead people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I can.
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> All mandated by Oslo.
> 
> 
> 
> *{COMMENT)*
> 
> For your convenience, I have linked copies of the Oslo Accords for your review.
> 
> •  Oslo I Accord  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
> •  Oslo II Accord  The Israeli-Palestinian Intrim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip​
> There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:
> 
> •  Surveillance
> •  Arrest
> •  Detain/Detention*
> •  Courts**
> •  Warrants
> 
> *Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _release of Hostile Arab Palestinian Prisoner_ releases (Article XVI) by Israel to the PLO.
> **Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _Rights (Tort Claims and Awards) , Liabilities and Obligations_ (Article XX).​
> Both exceptions are in the opposite direction of the allegations you make.  They are both either complementary to the Rule of Law or ancillary to the Rue of Law.
> 
> While the application of rights and legal principles of the US may be admirable, the fact is that there are many countries that have vastly differing laws on Surveillance, Arrest, Detention, the need for warrants and the Courts.  It would be a rather naive approach to suggest that all countries have the same protections as Americans.  This would be especially true in the Middles East, the Persian Gulf and African countries.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Kites were sold out.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh → Sometimes I think you intentionally mislead people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I can.
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> All mandated by Oslo.
> 
> 
> 
> *{COMMENT)*
> 
> For your convenience, I have linked copies of the Oslo Accords for your review.
> 
> •  Oslo I Accord  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
> •  Oslo II Accord  The Israeli-Palestinian Intrim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip​
> There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:
> 
> •  Surveillance
> •  Arrest
> •  Detain/Detention*
> •  Courts**
> •  Warrants
> 
> *Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _release of Hostile Arab Palestinian Prisoner_ releases (Article XVI) by Israel to the PLO.
> **Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _Rights (Tort Claims and Awards) , Liabilities and Obligations_ (Article XX).​
> Both exceptions are in the opposite direction of the allegations you make.  They are both either complementary to the Rule of Law or ancillary to the Rue of Law.
> 
> While the application of rights and legal principles of the US may be admirable, the fact is that there are many countries that have vastly differing laws on Surveillance, Arrest, Detention, the need for warrants and the Courts.  It would be a rather naive approach to suggest that all countries have the same protections as Americans.  This would be especially true in the Middles East, the Persian Gulf and African countries.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Keep on posting!!!  I LOVE ❤️ the way “ Israel” is in quotes. Yet you say the Palestinians agree to recognize it? “You State the goal is to “ destroy Palestine”
 Right of Return” would destroy Israel and that will never happen


----------



## Taz

The Pals have a right of return to any Muslim country they want. I'll even help them pack. Seems pretty fair to me.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kites were sold out.
Click to expand...


That is absolutely Hysterical!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Taz said:


> The Pals have a right of return to any Muslim country they want. I'll even help them pack. Seems pretty fair to me.



 Glad you feel that way. I’ll help you pack so you can get over there ASAP.


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh → Sometimes I think you intentionally mislead people.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I can.
> The "PA" spies on people without court issued warrants.
> They arrest people who have committed no crime without court issued warrants.
> They detain people without charge or trial.
> All mandated by Oslo.
> 
> 
> 
> *{COMMENT)*
> 
> For your convenience, I have linked copies of the Oslo Accords for your review.
> 
> •  Oslo I Accord  Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
> •  Oslo II Accord  The Israeli-Palestinian Intrim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip​
> There is *absolutely no* mention of the following in either Accord:
> 
> •  Surveillance
> •  Arrest
> •  Detain/Detention*
> •  Courts**
> •  Warrants
> 
> *Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _release of Hostile Arab Palestinian Prisoner_ releases (Article XVI) by Israel to the PLO.
> **Footnote:  Except as it applied to the _Rights (Tort Claims and Awards) , Liabilities and Obligations_ (Article XX).​
> Both exceptions are in the opposite direction of the allegations you make.  They are both either complementary to the Rule of Law or ancillary to the Rue of Law.
> 
> While the application of rights and legal principles of the US may be admirable, the fact is that there are many countries that have vastly differing laws on Surveillance, Arrest, Detention, the need for warrants and the Courts.  It would be a rather naive approach to suggest that all countries have the same protections as Americans.  This would be especially true in the Middles East, the Persian Gulf and African countries.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep on posting!!!  I LOVE ❤️ the way “ Israel” is in quotes. Yet you say the Palestinians agree to recognize it? “You State the goal is to “ destroy Palestine”
> Right of Return” would destroy Israel and that will never happen
Click to expand...

If refugee status is applied equally to all it can't destroy Israel.
The magical "RoR" doesn't apply to persons hostile to the Jewish nation.

It's unlikely we can find even 50,000 such persons eligible for resettlement in Israel, if the Arab side wasn't using these people as pawns in a game against the Jewish Nation, they could've  been quietly resettled long ago. Wouldn't be a problem at all.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

The goal of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is often shrouded by the language they use.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Keep on posting!!!  I LOVE ❤️ the way “ Israel” is in quotes. Yet you say the Palestinians agree to recognize it? “You State the goal is to “ destroy Palestine”
> Right of Return” would destroy Israel and that will never happen


*(COMMENT)*

*WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.

Similarly* WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.

Even in 2012, the year it was decided to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the UN, →



			
				Khaled Meshal said:
			
		

> "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."



This, as well, has an unmistakeable meaning when it is connected with: →



			
				Khaled Meshal said:
			
		

> "1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim"



I can see that there is no other conclusion to draw, but that the Jewish National Home is being threatened and is in danger and remains in danger. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> The goal of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is often shrouded by the language they use.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep on posting!!!  I LOVE ❤️ the way “ Israel” is in quotes. Yet you say the Palestinians agree to recognize it? “You State the goal is to “ destroy Palestine”
> Right of Return” would destroy Israel and that will never happen
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.
> 
> Similarly* WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.
> 
> Even in 2012, the year it was decided to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the UN, →
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khaled Meshal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This, as well, has an unmistakeable meaning when it is connected with: →
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khaled Meshal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can see that there is no other conclusion to draw, but that the Jewish National Home is being threatened and is in danger and remains in danger.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians engage in a wide variety of resistance. The focus on Hamas, a relatively small and recent group, misrepresents the Palestinian resistance.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> The goal of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is often shrouded by the language they use.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep on posting!!!  I LOVE ❤️ the way “ Israel” is in quotes. Yet you say the Palestinians agree to recognize it? “You State the goal is to “ destroy Palestine”
> Right of Return” would destroy Israel and that will never happen
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.
> 
> Similarly* WHEN* the language of the HoAP states:  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. Thus it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase."  *THEN* the meaning is clear.
> 
> Even in 2012, the year it was decided to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the UN, →
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khaled Meshal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This, as well, has an unmistakeable meaning when it is connected with: →
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khaled Meshal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can see that there is no other conclusion to draw, but that the Jewish National Home is being threatened and is in danger and remains in danger.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



_*"The goal of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is often shrouded b*_y 

 *the language they use."*


_LaLaLaLaLa..............La_















Photo-Op (….i shake hands for….*nothing*)….​


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine 101 with Dr. Paul Heideman*


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic terrorism 101

*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Nothing a few welfare checks won’t fix.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine 101 with Dr. Paul Heideman*



He excuses Egyptian retaliation against Hamas, but has a different standard for blaming Israel.
It gets even more bizarre when Israel is blamed for actions of other sovereign states fighting the same threat.

That's all one needs to know about the bigot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SJP Palestine Awareness Week Interview*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

Yes, the Arab Palestines do engage in a number of different resistance _(both anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist pursuits)_ with a diverse coalition of academic and students, with and human rights activists and some religious leaders.  But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border → threatening violence, launching incendiary devices, and attempting to place bombs to destroy the Barrier.  In one case, HAMAS successfully destroyed _(arson)_ the Kerem Shalom Crossing.   BUT, I agree, the "various other" anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist elements and groups outnumber HAMAS in significant numbers.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians engage in a wide variety of resistance. The focus on Hamas, a relatively small and recent group, misrepresents the Palestinian resistance.


*(COMMENT)*

There was no intent to misrepresent eight the Arab Palestinian Resistance or the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) — with preaches freedom of speech, and nonviolent political action, but appears to have multiple hidden agenda and the opposite effect.  This is not a new development.  Below are four (4) articles from 215, 2016, 2017 and 2018 showing a global pattern sample from each of those years:



			
				EXCERPT From Violent Boycotts and the BDS Movement • Los Angeles Review of Books 16 JUN 15 said:
			
		

> _This article is adopted from a lecture given on April 24, 2015, at the New York
> Consulate General of France’s
> “A Night of Philosophy"_​For one thing, it is surprising that supporters of the academic boycott find appalling the attempt to limit their freedom of speech — their movement constitutes a massive assault on the same freedom. We should be clear about BDS’s strategy: it is an attempt to take Israelis’ freedom of speech hostage, and to use this hostage in order to put pressure on the Israeli government. Therefore, anyone who is invested in the value of free speech should be reluctant to join BDS. And, for the same reason, a BDS supporter expressing indignation when her own freedom of speech — her freedom to silence others — comes under attack is likely doing so in bad faith. At the same time, a liberal supporter of universal free speech has a case when acting to circumscribe the free speech of BDS supporters. This shouldn’t sound paradoxical: there is room, in a far-off corner of liberal logical space, to support the silencing of those who undertake the massive silencing of others.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Omri Boehm





			
				SPME BDS Monitor: Violence Occurs on College Campuses • The algermeiner 3 NOV 16 said:
			
		

> The growing trend to regard Palestinians as “people of color” continues to superimpose BDS on racial and other protest movements, even as violence by BDS supporters, and their “intersectional” allies, undermines their broader appeal.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Alexander Joffe





			
				Anti-Israel pro-BDS profs organizing Antifa campus network • The Legal Insurrection 17 AUG 17 said:
			
		

> The teaming of BDS and Antifa
> is the single most dangerous development
> I have witnessed in many years​The anti-Israel Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement is notorious for campus violence and disruption directed at Israelis and pro-Israeli students and faculty.
> 
> We have featured dozens of incidents of shout-downs and disruptions of events, including physical acts of intimidation. Many of these incidents are discussed in our post, With campus shout downs, first they came for the Jews and Israel.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by William A. Jacobson





			
				Standford Student Threaten Violence Against Pro-Israeli Students • The National Review 31 JUL 18 said:
			
		

> Universities must oppose the
> immoral and dangerous BDS movement.​It would be wrong to overstate the comparison: This is not the 1930s. Nevertheless, it is necessary, now, to remind ourselves how the seeds of violence are sown, and the tacit indifference that allows them to grow. The threat of violence at Stanford is a symptom of a larger assault, spearheaded by groups like Students for Justice in Palestine, of which Daoud was an active member. This broader movement’s Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel betrays a prejudicial and sinister logic. It is tempting to dismiss BDS and its allied efforts as mere hot air, far-left radicals frolicking in their playpen of demagoguery. But that misses the point.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Dov Greenberg



Don't take my word for it.  It is not just me and my thoughts, but the thoughts of many that preceive the BDS Movement as having many faces that present themselves as potentially dangerous _(if not actually dangerous)_.  And any real victory it has is won at a great cost.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

Hollie said:


> *Islamic terrorism 101
> 
> *



*"Hamas Leader Calls for Uprising against Israel"*

....it's 2018, going on 

 2019.....

literally............








...there's nobody at the palestinian wheel.....nobody to turn to...nobody to help PT drinkmores' favorite theatre group folk....the refugees....these young guys being brainwashed and indoctrinated into thinking terrorism is the way.......






~mandate! 1907~


 does not compute  
















* does not compute* 

​












 does not compute 

​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border


I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.

The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border
> 
> 
> 
> I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
Click to expand...


Who has a right to go into a crowded Pizzeria and detonate an explosive vest?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> Yes, the Arab Palestines do engage in a number of different resistance _(both anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist pursuits)_ with a diverse coalition of academic and students, with and human rights activists and some religious leaders.  But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border → threatening violence, launching incendiary devices, and attempting to place bombs to destroy the Barrier.  In one case, HAMAS successfully destroyed _(arson)_ the Kerem Shalom Crossing.   BUT, I agree, the "various other" anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist elements and groups outnumber HAMAS in significant numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians engage in a wide variety of resistance. The focus on Hamas, a relatively small and recent group, misrepresents the Palestinian resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There was no intent to misrepresent eight the Arab Palestinian Resistance or the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) — with preaches freedom of speech, and nonviolent political action, but appears to have multiple hidden agenda and the opposite effect.  This is not a new development.  Below are four (4) articles from 215, 2016, 2017 and 2018 showing a global pattern sample from each of those years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT From Violent Boycotts and the BDS Movement • Los Angeles Review of Books 16 JUN 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _This article is adopted from a lecture given on April 24, 2015, at the New York
> Consulate General of France’s
> “A Night of Philosophy"_​For one thing, it is surprising that supporters of the academic boycott find appalling the attempt to limit their freedom of speech — their movement constitutes a massive assault on the same freedom. We should be clear about BDS’s strategy: it is an attempt to take Israelis’ freedom of speech hostage, and to use this hostage in order to put pressure on the Israeli government. Therefore, anyone who is invested in the value of free speech should be reluctant to join BDS. And, for the same reason, a BDS supporter expressing indignation when her own freedom of speech — her freedom to silence others — comes under attack is likely doing so in bad faith. At the same time, a liberal supporter of universal free speech has a case when acting to circumscribe the free speech of BDS supporters. This shouldn’t sound paradoxical: there is room, in a far-off corner of liberal logical space, to support the silencing of those who undertake the massive silencing of others.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Omri Boehm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPME BDS Monitor: Violence Occurs on College Campuses • The algermeiner 3 NOV 16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The growing trend to regard Palestinians as “people of color” continues to superimpose BDS on racial and other protest movements, even as violence by BDS supporters, and their “intersectional” allies, undermines their broader appeal.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Alexander Joffe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Israel pro-BDS profs organizing Antifa campus network • The Legal Insurrection 17 AUG 17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teaming of BDS and Antifa
> is the single most dangerous development
> I have witnessed in many years​The anti-Israel Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement is notorious for campus violence and disruption directed at Israelis and pro-Israeli students and faculty.
> 
> We have featured dozens of incidents of shout-downs and disruptions of events, including physical acts of intimidation. Many of these incidents are discussed in our post, With campus shout downs, first they came for the Jews and Israel.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by William A. Jacobson
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standford Student Threaten Violence Against Pro-Israeli Students • The National Review 31 JUL 18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Universities must oppose the
> immoral and dangerous BDS movement.​It would be wrong to overstate the comparison: This is not the 1930s. Nevertheless, it is necessary, now, to remind ourselves how the seeds of violence are sown, and the tacit indifference that allows them to grow. The threat of violence at Stanford is a symptom of a larger assault, spearheaded by groups like Students for Justice in Palestine, of which Daoud was an active member. This broader movement’s Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel betrays a prejudicial and sinister logic. It is tempting to dismiss BDS and its allied efforts as mere hot air, far-left radicals frolicking in their playpen of demagoguery. But that misses the point.
> SOURCE & LINK:  by Dov Greenberg
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't take my word for it.  It is not just me and my thoughts, but the thoughts of many that preceive the BDS Movement as having many faces that present themselves as potentially dangerous _(if not actually dangerous)_.  And any real victory it has is won at a great cost.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> We have featured dozens of incidents of shout-downs and disruptions of events, including physical acts of intimidation.


We are working with a double standard here. Israeli supporters are shut down after they start to speak. Palestinian supporters are shut down before they start to speak. That requires two different processes. Why should one be OK and the other not?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border
> 
> 
> 
> I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who has a right to go into a crowded Pizzeria and detonate an explosive vest?
Click to expand...

Who has the right to drop a one ton bomb on an apartment building?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border
> 
> 
> 
> I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who has a right to go into a crowded Pizzeria and detonate an explosive vest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who has the right to drop a one ton bomb on an apartment building?
Click to expand...

Every govt that gets attacked by Jihadi military installations placed in that location.
Exactly what happens to ISIS militants who build tunnels underneath or shoot from apartment buildings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border
> 
> 
> 
> I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who has a right to go into a crowded Pizzeria and detonate an explosive vest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who has the right to drop a one ton bomb on an apartment building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every govt that finds Jihadi military installations in an apartment building.
> They cease to be protected civilian sites.
Click to expand...

Israel's standard stupid response.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I mention HAMAS simply because they were _(and are)_ in the news daily and have a certain control of human capital to line up the against the very edge of the border
> 
> 
> 
> I know that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman and they will milk that as much as they can.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves by all means necessary, including armed struggle. The Palestinians use many forms of resistance, It is not my place to tell them what they can or cannot do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who has a right to go into a crowded Pizzeria and detonate an explosive vest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who has the right to drop a one ton bomb on an apartment building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every govt that finds Jihadi military installations in an apartment building.
> They cease to be protected civilian sites.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's standard stupid response.
Click to expand...

'Stupid' because apologizing for Jihadi suicide attacks
was a smart move on Your behalf?

Or because applying the same standards to Israel as to any other country, is jeopordizing Your bigotry?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ken O'Keefe on BBC HardTalk (2010) - Palestine & the Israeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

In 2014 posts from a secret British Facebook group, Greta Berlin, the co-founder and spokesperson of the Free Gaza Movement, says that Israeli commandos who boarded the Mavi Marmara flotilla did not open fire on activists until one, Ken O’Keefe, stole a gun from one of them.

“He was responsible for some of the deaths on board the Mavi Marmara. Had he not disarmed an Israeli terrorist soldier, they would not have started to fire. That’s enough. Most of you have no idea what you’re talking about,” Berlin wrote in a debate with other members of the private 'Palestine Live' group for pro-Palestinian activists.

Ken O’Keefe is a radical pro-palestinian activist who served in the American marines and thus had full military training prior to the 2010 raid.

“O’Keefe created all kinds of problems for us on that first trip to Gaza, he lied about having a captain’s license, 
*he had rather crazy ideas of wanting to have a ‘suicide boat,’” she added.*

Activist's online admission backs Israeli version of deadly Gaza flotilla raid


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

Yes, in some respects the two situations are similar situations.  But that is of a more shallow perspective rather than that of a focused eye.   Arab Palestinians and Israelis, over generations, have lost the ability and to building mutual respect and understanding between them.  And thus, the outside observer see that each holds the other at fault for every confrontational event _(of any sort)_ no matter the topic _(commercial, political, spiritual, intellectual and cultural)_ of the dispute, and no matter the level of mortality.  Each holds the other to blame for every unintended consequence.



P F Tinmore said:


> We are working with a double standard here. Israeli supporters are shut down after they start to speak. Palestinian supporters are shut down before they start to speak. That requires two different processes. Why should one be OK and the other not?


*(COMMENT)*

In understanding this, the exchange between the two_ (Arab Palestinians and Israelis)_ has not improved over the years.  The feuding sprinkled with sparse periods of peace and freedom has been continuous since the Armistice of 1949.

Each side has a distinct culture which openly and publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.  Each sees the other as an imminent danger to their sovereignty and culture.

The Arab Palestinians, for one reason or another, has chosen to indefinitely extend the conflict by asking for the impossible.  And the Israelis are not about to exchange their sovereignty for peace. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> Yes, in some respects the two situations are similar situations.  But that is of a more shallow perspective rather than that of a focused eye.   Arab Palestinians and Israelis, over generations, have lost the ability and to building mutual respect and understanding between them.  And thus, the outside observer see that each holds the other at fault for every confrontational event _(of any sort)_ no matter the topic _(commercial, political, spiritual, intellectual and cultural)_ of the dispute, and no matter the level of mortality.  Each holds the other to blame for every unintended consequence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are working with a double standard here. Israeli supporters are shut down after they start to speak. Palestinian supporters are shut down before they start to speak. That requires two different processes. Why should one be OK and the other not?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In understanding this, the exchange between the two_ (Arab Palestinians and Israelis)_ has not improved over the years.  The feuding sprinkled with sparse periods of peace and freedom has been continuous since the Armistice of 1949.
> 
> Each side has a distinct culture which openly and publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.  Each sees the other as an imminent danger to their sovereignty and culture.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, for one reason or another, has chosen to indefinitely extend the conflict by asking for the impossible.  And the Israelis are not about to exchange their sovereignty for peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You don't understand the problem.


What treaty or agreement can resolve this problem?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh, this is so sad.  The boundary is the establishment of sovereignty.  In theory, it will always be there and nations will always have the right to defend it.

BY THE WAY:  *The Video is not in "Context."  *
It intentionally misrepresented the facts.  It opening tells it like there was no "just cause."


P F Tinmore said:


> You don't understand the problem.
> What treaty or agreement can resolve this problem?


*(COMMENT)*

Treaties do not fix these types of problems in perception and trust.  Only people can.  The treaty just records the details of the new relationship.  The trust placed in the bound words spoken _(the handshake)_ between culture has meaning.  That is why when the treaty is broken or arbitrarily abandon by one of the parties - their word _(promises)_ becomes hollow. 

None of the treaties the Arab Palestinians have signed onto have any real meaning because they have no reasonable expectation of being upheld by the Palestinian Authority or any other arm of government.  Certainly, the Arab Palestinians do not follow the Geneva Conventions.

Finally, the Arab Palestinian State claims to be encased by the 1967 Borders.  The 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967,  is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.

The border of the State of Palestine could not be defined "before" the 1967 War, because the State of *Palestine did not exist until November 1988*.  And that is only true if you agree that the PLO Declaration of Independence was valid.  And if you think the 1988 Declaration of Independence by the PLO was valid, then you know that nowhere in the Middle East (including the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem) did the PLO hold any sovereignty.  In fact, the Hashemite Kingdom abandon the West Bank _(into the hands of the Israelis)_ four-months BEFORE the PLO made the declaration.  So technically, the only country having a valid claim would be Israel. 
Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory.  It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.

•  _*Disengagement from the West Bank*  •
"Finally, on *July 31 (1988)* King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank."_​So we must be very very careful when we are dealing with the Arab Palestinians. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.


You forgot this part.

Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> None of the treaties the Arab Palestinians have signed onto have any real meaning because they have no reasonable expectation of being upheld by the Palestinian Authority or any other arm of government.


The "Palestinian Authority" made agreements contrary to the wishes of the people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
Click to expand...


You forgot the part that announces the Islamist gee-had is exempt from the above.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> BY THE WAY: *The Video is not in "Context." *
> It intentionally misrepresented the facts. It opening tells it like there was no "just cause."


What do you mean?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BY THE WAY: *The Video is not in "Context." *
> It intentionally misrepresented the facts. It opening tells it like there was no "just cause."
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean?
Click to expand...


You will allow your ignorance to be a reason to spam the thread, right?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You forgot the part that announces the Islamist gee-had is exempt from the above.
Click to expand...



Israel's right to Jerusalem established firmly in int'l law, expert says | The Jerusalem post

Israel will ALWAYS keep Jerusalem, They were denied their rights by Jordan and will never be denied again,  Remember '* NEVER AGAIN!!!!!*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Green Party urges Int'l Criminal Court to probe Israel's war on Palestinians*

The Green Party has endorsed a letter to the International Criminal Court (ICC) that was drafted by the party's *Peace Action Committee*. The letter, which is appended below, outlines the history of the Israeli occupation of Palestine and requests that alleged war crimes by Israel that have been reported since June 2014 be investigated by the ICC.

The ICC opened a preliminary examination into the situation in Palestine on January 16, 2015. 

Green Party urges Int'l Criminal Court to probe Israel's war on Palestinians


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Green Party urges Int'l Criminal Court to probe Israel's war on Palestinians*
> 
> The Green Party has endorsed a letter to the International Criminal Court (ICC) that was drafted by the party's *Peace Action Committee*. The letter, which is appended below, outlines the history of the Israeli occupation of Palestine and requests that alleged war crimes by Israel that have been reported since June 2014 be investigated by the ICC.
> 
> The ICC opened a preliminary examination into the situation in Palestine on January 16, 2015.
> 
> Green Party urges Int'l Criminal Court to probe Israel's war on Palestinians



Since when do signatures have any power to force an outcome of a court probe?
Especially with that kind of hate speech in their letter.

I think this is an exemplary case of cynical attempt at using the ICC for the spread of their vile bigotry.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Role of Christians in the Struggle for Justice in Palestine*

The occupation of Palestine is often erroneously portrayed as a conflict between the Jewish and Muslim faiths. This narrative obscures the fact that Zionism is a settler-colonialist movement inspired by 19th century European anti-Semitism, which was shunned by many Jews in the past and continues to be shunned today. What’s more, instead of addressing the ongoing issues of inequality, injustice and apartheid within a rational, political realm (thus making these issues resolvable), it resorts to an ahistorical portrayal of an age-old and violent, irrational conflict. Finally, it ignores a sizable and influential Christian Palestinian population that is part-and-parcel to Palestinian history, heritage and culture.

*The Role of Christians in the Struggle for Justice in Palestine*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Role of Christians in the Struggle for Justice in Palestine*
> 
> The occupation of Palestine is often erroneously portrayed as a conflict between the Jewish and Muslim faiths. This narrative obscures the fact that Zionism is a settler-colonialist movement inspired by 19th century European anti-Semitism, which was shunned by many Jews in the past and continues to be shunned today. What’s more, instead of addressing the ongoing issues of inequality, injustice and apartheid within a rational, political realm (thus making these issues resolvable), it resorts to an ahistorical portrayal of an age-old and violent, irrational conflict. Finally, it ignores a sizable and influential Christian Palestinian population that is part-and-parcel to Palestinian history, heritage and culture.
> 
> *The Role of Christians in the Struggle for Justice in Palestine*



Actually modern Zionism was initiated as a response to an Arab Christian blood libel against Jews in Syria-Palestine.The blood libel resulted in a wave of murderous anti-Jewish pogroms across the Ottoman empire. Interestingly these pogroms also triggered the first international political Jewish organization, resulting in the state of Israel - as a defense mechanism against this bigotry.

Read about the Damascus Affair


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well that is not strickly accurate.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.  

The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit. 

In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.  

*(CUSTOMARY LAW)*




More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.



			
				International Court of Justice (2012) said:
			
		

> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship





			
				International Court of Justice (2012) said:
			
		

>




Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


A lie, . The W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered part of Jordan.

Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia

Of course there will be nothing to say; there never is. Gaza was OFFICIALLY considered part of Egypt   ,  The Israelis were supposed to have access to their Holy Sites as per the UNITED NATIONS that Pro Palestinian Kool-Aid Drinkers like to always refer to but were denied.  If anything they were set on the destruction of anything suggesting that suggested the Jewish people were ever there.  Kool-Aid drinkers who believe in " religious freedom" see nothing wrong with that either.   That is why Israel will NEVER give it up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A lie, . The W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered part of Jordan.
> 
> Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
> 
> Of course there will be nothing to say; there never is. Gaza was OFFICIALLY considered part of Egypt   ,  The Israelis were supposed to have access to their Holy Sites as per the UNITED NATIONS that Pro Palestinian Kool-Aid Drinkers like to always refer to but were denied.  If anything they were set on the destruction of anything suggesting that suggested the Jewish people were ever there.  Kool-Aid drinkers who believe in " religious freedom" see nothing wrong with that either.   That is why Israel will NEVER give it up.
Click to expand...

09999
From your link:

The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


Actually, it was not, and is not, occupied “Pal’istan” territory. 

The Ottoman Turks released all rights and title to land area that included the geographic area called Palestine. There was never an independent, sovereign entity of “Palestine”. Contrary to your misrepresentation and ignorance of the facts, there was never a “country of Pal’istan”.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A lie, . The W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered part of Jordan.
> 
> Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
> 
> Of course there will be nothing to say; there never is. Gaza was OFFICIALLY considered part of Egypt   ,  The Israelis were supposed to have access to their Holy Sites as per the UNITED NATIONS that Pro Palestinian Kool-Aid Drinkers like to always refer to but were denied.  If anything they were set on the destruction of anything suggesting that suggested the Jewish people were ever there.  Kool-Aid drinkers who believe in " religious freedom" see nothing wrong with that either.   That is why Israel will NEVER give it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants
Click to expand...


Yes, but from my link it was FORMALLY recognized as part of Jordan.  What the post doesn’t say but it’s obviously understood is that there was no outcry about “ International Law” or “ Occupation “
   You also have nothing to say about Jordan not adhering to the Armistice Agreement and refusing to allow Israelis into E. Jerusalem to have access to their Holy Sites and Destroying Israel’s Religious Sites, digging into graves making them latrines, etc. etc. If Israel had any Historic Muslim Religious Sites or Burial Grounds inside the Borders we hear so much about and they did it you would be Hysterical demanding another “ investigation “claiming the Israelis have no Tolerance for Religious Freedom.  I don’t expect anything else from a Pro Palestinian


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it was not, and is not, occupied “Pal’istan” territory.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks released all rights and title to land area that included the geographic area called Palestine. There was never an independent, sovereign entity of “Palestine”. Contrary to your misrepresentation and ignorance of the facts, there was never a “country of Pal’istan”.
Click to expand...


There was a “ territory “ but not a Country


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well that is not strickly accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupation is an original mode of acquisition by a State of a title to a territory. It implies the establishment of sovereignty over a territory *not under the authority of any other State* (_terra nullius_) whether newly discovered or *abandoned by the State formerly in control*.
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot this part.
> 
> Adequate exercise of sovereignty *must be peaceful,* real, and continuous.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That bit (must be peaceful,) is not a written requirement established in international law for territiry abandon by the state formerly in control or under the authority of another state.  You will not find a single treaty. convention, or law.
> 
> The peace takeover _(without the use of military force)_ only applied to an aggressor nation.  Customarily the notion that it "must" be a peaceful take-over *does not apply* in the circumstances where the "defender" is in hot pursuit of opposing forces, and takes-up territory overrun in the pursuit.
> 
> In fact, there may in point of fact, be no law concerning this.  It certainly was not applied to the Chinese in the military takeover of Philippine Islands in the South China Sea.  Nor was Customary Law (or tribunal) apply to the forcible acquisition of most of the Crimean Peninsula by the Russian Federation.
> 
> *(CUSTOMARY LAW)*
> View attachment 217012
> More often than not, the types of disputes never make it to the International Court of Justice (ICJ). In the case of the Arab Palestinian Conflict _(depending on how you look at it)_ the dispute is either 70 years old - or - 50 years old.  The Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the State of Palestine keeps using the 1949 Armistice Lines as a reference demarcation.  That makes the dispute closer to 70 years old than it does 50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOURCE:  by GW Law Faculty Publications & Other Works Faculty Scholarship
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International Court of Justice (2012) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217012
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then, there is the issue of time.  The duration of the time and the lapse of time in a serious attempt at peace.  How long can the Arab Palestinians drag-out the conflict and be taken seriously if they cannot negotiate a simple ceasefire with _(in perspective)_ only retaliates against Arab Palestinian assaults? *(RHETORICAL) *
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your daily clunker. Jordan did not abandon any territory. The West Bank was never theirs. It was occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, it was not, and is not, occupied “Pal’istan” territory.
> 
> The Ottoman Turks released all rights and title to land area that included the geographic area called Palestine. There was never an independent, sovereign entity of “Palestine”. Contrary to your misrepresentation and ignorance of the facts, there was never a “country of Pal’istan”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a “ territory “ but not a Country
Click to expand...

Agreed. That’s a more precise term.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Just because an entity _(any entity)_ doesn't officially recognize an action as "legal" _(or illegal) _does not change the value of reality _(the truth)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants


*(COMMENT)*

Many countries do not think what the Russian did with the Crimea --- and what the Chinese did in the South China Sea were not legal.  But it's like robbing a bank.  It's wrong; its illegal, but it doesn't stop the bank roberies.  They happen more frequently than you might think.  Because an action is not recognized as legal, does not mean it did not happen and that it can be ignored like (as you often say) "it didn't happen." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just because an entity _(any entity)_ doesn't officially recognize an action as "legal" _(or illegal) _does not change the value of reality _(the truth)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many countries do not think what the Russian did with the Crimea --- and what the Chinese did in the South China Sea were not legal.  But it's like robbing a bank.  It's wrong; its illegal, but it doesn't stop the bank roberies.  They happen more frequently than you might think.  Because an action is not recognized as legal, does not mean it did not happen and that it can be ignored like (as you often say) "it didn't happen."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.

BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just because an entity _(any entity)_ doesn't officially recognize an action as "legal" _(or illegal) _does not change the value of reality _(the truth)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many countries do not think what the Russian did with the Crimea --- and what the Chinese did in the South China Sea were not legal.  But it's like robbing a bank.  It's wrong; its illegal, but it doesn't stop the bank roberies.  They happen more frequently than you might think.  Because an action is not recognized as legal, does not mean it did not happen and that it can be ignored like (as you often say) "it didn't happen."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
Click to expand...


Deflection; The West Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered to be part of Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just because an entity _(any entity)_ doesn't officially recognize an action as "legal" _(or illegal) _does not change the value of reality _(the truth)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many countries do not think what the Russian did with the Crimea --- and what the Chinese did in the South China Sea were not legal.  But it's like robbing a bank.  It's wrong; its illegal, but it doesn't stop the bank roberies.  They happen more frequently than you might think.  Because an action is not recognized as legal, does not mean it did not happen and that it can be ignored like (as you often say) "it didn't happen."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; The West Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered to be part of Jordan.
Click to expand...

Not so.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just because an entity _(any entity)_ doesn't officially recognize an action as "legal" _(or illegal) _does not change the value of reality _(the truth)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 09999
> From your link:
> 
> The annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by the international community.[4] A month afterwards, the Arab League declared that they viewed the area "annexed by Jordan as a trust in its hands until the Palestine case is fully solved in the interests of its inhabitants
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many countries do not think what the Russian did with the Crimea --- and what the Chinese did in the South China Sea were not legal.  But it's like robbing a bank.  It's wrong; its illegal, but it doesn't stop the bank roberies.  They happen more frequently than you might think.  Because an action is not recognized as legal, does not mean it did not happen and that it can be ignored like (as you often say) "it didn't happen."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; The West Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially considered to be part of Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so.
Click to expand...


 The facts don’t lie. The W. Bank was FORMALLY annexed April 24, 1950. As I mentioned in my previous post there wasn’t an outcry about “ occupation “ or “ International Law”   Israel was supposed to have access to E. Jerusalen but they were denied . Get it? Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*W. Bank Palestinian dies in Israel army custody: Family*
21-year-old dies only hours after being detained from his home, relatives say

A Palestinian youth on Tuesday died within hours of being detained by Israeli army troops in the occupied West Bank, according to members of the young man’s family. 

Relatives of Mohamed al-Rimawi, 21, said the Israeli army had informed them of the young man’s death only hours after taking him from his home in the West Bank town of Beit Rima.

According to family members, al-Rimawi was beaten while in custody.

W. Bank Palestinian dies in Israel army custody: Family


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Nazi flag flown over Palestinian town*
*Banner with swastika placed near highway where hundreds of Jewish drivers pass every day*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Nazi flag flying over the Palestinian village** of Beit Ummar*
​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Son's death was "best day of my life," says Palestinian mother*


----------



## rylah

*Myths and Facts : "ISIS and Hamas Are Different"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SAMAR Media This is Palestine Shadia Mansour ENG*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Just what particular legal citation or clause are you basing this  assertion?



P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.


*(COMMENT)*

What does the actual law say?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> *Nazi flag flying over the Palestinian village** of Beit Ummar*
> ​



He sees NOTHING wrong with that !!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn... They should be home schooled.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TED Talk - "Challenging the Establishment" | Mnar Muhawesh*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> *Son's death was "best day of my life," says Palestinian mother*



Just proves they are Uncivilized


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just what particular legal citation or clause are you basing this  assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

*Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.

Annexation - Wikipedia


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just what particular legal citation or clause are you basing this  assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
> 
> Annexation - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


Yawn...,,
    Jordan Initiated the War
     The territiry was formally recognized as being part of Jordan.  You can cut and paste till the Cows come home but that’s not going to change the facts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That is a layman's definition.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> 
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Wikipedia is _(for a free resource)_ a damn good starting point.  But you cannot take a wikipedia before the court and admit it as evidence.   What partuclar enforceable law are you referring to when you said:  "Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is."

What law (citation please)?
Why is it NOT enforced?
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a layman's definition.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> 
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wikipedia is _(for a free resource)_ a damn good starting point.  But you cannot take a wikipedia before the court and admit it as evidence.   What partuclar enforceable law are you referring to when you said:  "Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is."
> 
> What law (citation please)?
> Why is it NOT enforced?
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Prohibition of Annexation
The rule of international customary law that prohibits unilateral annexation of territory, at least while a conflict is still continuing, is a necessary foundation for the whole idea that occupation is subject to a distinct regulatory framework.

https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/co...rts_on_transformative_military_occupation.pdf


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a layman's definition.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> 
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wikipedia is _(for a free resource)_ a damn good starting point.  But you cannot take a wikipedia before the court and admit it as evidence.   What partuclar enforceable law are you referring to when you said:  "Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is."
> 
> What law (citation please)?
> Why is it NOT enforced?
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


A “ law” that is only enforced selectively cannot and will not be taken seriously.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That is a layman's definition.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> 
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Wikipedia is _(for a free resource)_ a damn good starting point.  But you cannot take a wikipedia before the court and admit it as evidence.   What partuclar enforceable law are you referring to when you said:  "Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is."
> 
> What law (citation please)?
> Why is it NOT enforced?
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prohibition of Annexation
> The rule of international customary law that prohibits unilateral annexation of territory, at least while a conflict is still continuing, is a necessary foundation for the whole idea that occupation is subject to a distinct regulatory framework.
> 
> https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/co...rts_on_transformative_military_occupation.pdf
Click to expand...


Could you email a copy of that to Ummah’istan?

There’s a good fellow.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I would like to make a few short points before I move on.   



P F Tinmore said:


> Prohibition of Annexation
> The rule of international customary law that prohibits unilateral annexation of territory, at least while a conflict is still continuing, is a necessary foundation for the whole idea that occupation is subject to a distinct regulatory framework.
> 
> https://weblearn.ox.ac.uk/access/co...rts_on_transformative_military_occupation.pdf


*(COMMENT)*

Is a nice article and a professional view of the question.  It took me a while to scan through it. 

✪ *IF* there was some law, convention or treaty that stated "it is illegal to annex occupied territory." with the certainty that you add "it is what it is" *THEN* the author (Professor Adam Roberts*) would have unambiguously stated it.  Instead he talks about:

•  The law on occupations remains both viable and useful, and has proved reasonably flexible in practice.

•  The Acticle 2(4) of the UN Charter applies to an invader; and not the defender in hot pursuit of the invader.  

•  The existence of a possible legal justification for pursuing transformative projects in military
occupations might be thought to have two consequences, but neither of them follows auto-
matically from it.

•  Three aspects of the law relating to occupied territories exemplifythis requirement: 

√  The first, the prohibition on annexation, has survived, battered but unbowed. 
√  The second and third are under much greater pressure.​
But Professor Adams does NOT cite the authority for this prohibition.  Instead:



			
				TRANSFORMATIVE MILITARY OCCUPATION said:
			
		

> *Prohibition of Annexation*
> The rule of international customary law that prohibits unilateral annexation of territory, at
> least while a conflict is still continuing, is a necessary foundation for the whole idea that occu-
> pation is subject to a distinct regulatory framework. The rule serves as a reminder of the limits
> imposed on an occupying power—limits that might also have implications for “transforma-
> tive” occupations. Although annexation and transformation are conceptually and legally very
> different, they do have one thing in common—they tend to involve extending to the occupied
> territory the type of political system adhered to by the occupying power.​



Nowhere in that section (I read it twice) does he identify the legal authority to prohibit the act of annexation in occupation. 

When you find an "applicable law" I'll be happy to listen.  Until then, remember:



			
				Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court • PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAWArticle 22 •  said:
			
		

> _Nullum crimen sine lege_
> 
> [Subpara 1 and 3 cut for presentation purposes.]
> 
> *⇒  *2.  The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
> analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
> person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​


​*IF* you reinterpret the law or attempt to make it say something to fit your situation, *THEN* it is 
definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.

* Montague Burton Professor of International Relations, Oxford University; Fellow, Balliol College.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Keep posting ! All you are doing is verifying they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution”


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • The Acticle 2(4) of the UN Charter applies to an invader; and not the defender in hot pursuit of the invader.


Article 2
4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​You are *(again)* basing your conclusions on false premise. You are saying that the citizens of Palestine are the invaders and the foreign settlers out of Europe are the defenders.

You make no sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep posting ! All you are doing is verifying they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution”
Click to expand...

The two state solution (solution to what problem?) has been on the table since 1937 and nobody has been able to get that pig to fly. It has always been one state. It is one state now.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No false premise...



P F Tinmore said:


> Article 2
> 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​You are *(again)* basing your conclusions on false premise. You are saying that the citizens of Palestine are the invaders and the foreign settlers out of Europe are the defenders.
> 
> You make no sense.


*(COMMENT)*

In 1948, it is universally recognized that the Arab League attempted to invade Israel to obstruct Jewish Self-determination.  That set the conditions for an armistice.

The international community understood that the Mandate was terminating. Under Article 77 of the UN Charter, and at the direction of the UN, the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to become the successor government.  That Successor Government had been working with the Jewish Agency in the Steps Preparatory to Independence.   It was all a move in the light of day with full transparency.  The UNPC offered to work with the Arab High Committee, but they had rejected participation in the process necessary to create working self-governing institution _(something they still are lacking after half a century)_. 

In 1967, the conflict again was not a matter of the Israelis opposing the Arab Palestinians, who had rejected participation in self-governing institutions, but a pursuit of hostile Jordanian Forces.  The West Bank was annexed by Jordan (1950), and the people were Jordanian citizens.  The State of Israel occupied territory it overran in pursuit of hostile forces.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No false premise...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2
> 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​You are *(again)* basing your conclusions on false premise. You are saying that the citizens of Palestine are the invaders and the foreign settlers out of Europe are the defenders.
> 
> You make no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, it is universally recognized that the Arab League attempted to invade Israel to obstruct Jewish Self-determination.  That set the conditions for an armistice.
> 
> The international community understood that the Mandate was terminating. Under Article 77 of the UN Charter, and at the direction of the UN, the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to become the successor government.  That Successor Government had been working with the Jewish Agency in the Steps Preparatory to Independence.   It was all a move in the light of day with full transparency.  The UNPC offered to work with the Arab High Committee, but they had rejected participation in the process necessary to create working self-governing institution _(something they still are lacking after half a century)_.
> 
> In 1967, the conflict again was not a matter of the Israelis opposing the Arab Palestinians, who had rejected participation in self-governing institutions, but a pursuit of hostile Jordanian Forces.  The West Bank was annexed by Jordan (1950), and the people were Jordanian citizens.  The State of Israel occupied territory it overran in pursuit of hostile forces.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Shhhhhh....,  Please don’t tell him that Jordan FORMALLY annexed the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem. You might upset him.
  Wait....,  I think I did tell him. If he doesn’t give a S..T about the Israelis being denied their rights in E. Jerusalem why should I give a SHIT about “ Palestinian Rights?”   I don’t.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No false premise...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2
> 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​You are *(again)* basing your conclusions on false premise. You are saying that the citizens of Palestine are the invaders and the foreign settlers out of Europe are the defenders.
> 
> You make no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, it is universally recognized that the Arab League attempted to invade Israel to obstruct Jewish Self-determination.  That set the conditions for an armistice.
> 
> The international community understood that the Mandate was terminating. Under Article 77 of the UN Charter, and at the direction of the UN, the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to become the successor government.  That Successor Government had been working with the Jewish Agency in the Steps Preparatory to Independence.   It was all a move in the light of day with full transparency.  The UNPC offered to work with the Arab High Committee, but they had rejected participation in the process necessary to create working self-governing institution _(something they still are lacking after half a century)_.
> 
> In 1967, the conflict again was not a matter of the Israelis opposing the Arab Palestinians, who had rejected participation in self-governing institutions, but a pursuit of hostile Jordanian Forces.  The West Bank was annexed by Jordan (1950), and the people were Jordanian citizens.  The State of Israel occupied territory it overran in pursuit of hostile forces.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I am trying to find something in all this verbosity that relates to my post.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just what particular legal citation or clause are you basing this  assertion?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. It is illegal to annex occupied territory. It is what it is.
> 
> BTW, Israel annexed occupied territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does the actual law say?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Annexation* (Latin _ad_, to, and _nexus_, joining) is the administrative action[1] and concept in international law relating to the forcible acquisition of one state's territory by another state.[2] It is generally held to be an illegal act.
> 
> Annexation - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


What 'another State'?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No false premise...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2
> 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​You are *(again)* basing your conclusions on false premise. You are saying that the citizens of Palestine are the invaders and the foreign settlers out of Europe are the defenders.
> 
> You make no sense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, it is universally recognized that the Arab League attempted to invade Israel to obstruct Jewish Self-determination.  That set the conditions for an armistice.
> 
> The international community understood that the Mandate was terminating. Under Article 77 of the UN Charter, and at the direction of the UN, the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) was to become the successor government.  That Successor Government had been working with the Jewish Agency in the Steps Preparatory to Independence.   It was all a move in the light of day with full transparency.  The UNPC offered to work with the Arab High Committee, but they had rejected participation in the process necessary to create working self-governing institution _(something they still are lacking after half a century)_.
> 
> In 1967, the conflict again was not a matter of the Israelis opposing the Arab Palestinians, who had rejected participation in self-governing institutions, but a pursuit of hostile Jordanian Forces.  The West Bank was annexed by Jordan (1950), and the people were Jordanian citizens.  The State of Israel occupied territory it overran in pursuit of hostile forces.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am trying to find something in all this verbosity that relates to my post.
Click to expand...


That would be a revelation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians discuss: What happens in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Arabs-Moslems discuss the glory of dying for Hamas.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> *Arabs-Moslems discuss the glory of dying for Hamas.*



Savages.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## keepitreal

P F Tinmore said:


>


As I have planned, so shall it be, 
and as I have purposed, so shall it stand

Isaiah 14:24


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Soldiers Fire Live Rounds At Palestinian Farmers In Southern Gaza*

Israeli soldiers fired, on Monday morning, many rounds of live ammunition at several Palestinian farmers, trying to work on their own lands, east of Khan Younis, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip.

Media sources said the soldiers fired many sporadic live rounds at the farmers, forcing them to leave their own lands, in fear of further Israeli escalation and violations.

» Israeli Soldiers Fire Live Rounds At Palestinian Farmers In Southern Gaza– IMEMC News


----------



## Hollie

https://www.quora.com/Do-Palestinians-fake-IDF-soldiers-attacking-videos


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> https://www.quora.com/Do-Palestinians-fake-IDF-soldiers-attacking-videos


Wouldn't that be like pissing in the ocean to make it salty?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Do-Palestinians-fake-IDF-soldiers-attacking-videos
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be like pissing in the ocean to make it salty?
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Do-Palestinians-fake-IDF-soldiers-attacking-videos
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be like pissing in the ocean to make it salty?
Click to expand...


That would be like taking your Pallywood cartoon heroes seriously.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Terrorists Must Be Denied Child Recruits


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists Must Be Denied Child Recruits
Click to expand...

Load of hooey.


----------



## Hollie

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists Must Be Denied Child Recruits
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

[/QUOTE]

. Which is what” Right of Return “ is all about


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

They can return to Damascus


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab - Palestine: The Ongoing Nakba*

**


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

This thread is a bunch of Jews picking on 1 Palestinian.

Where have I seen this before?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What next for Palestine after Mahmoud Abbas?*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> This thread is a bunch of Jews picking on 1 Palestinian.
> 
> Where have I seen this before?



In Poland.  Prove that she is a Palestinian


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *What next for Palestine after Mahmoud Abbas?*
> 
> **


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> This thread is a bunch of Jews picking on 1 Palestinian.
> 
> Where have I seen this before?



Hollywood. Fake pic.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *What next for Palestine after Mahmoud Abbas?*
> 
> **



Civil war? Game of chairs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Uncivil Rites: Palestine and the Limits of Academic Freedom with Dr. Steven Salaita*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Uncivil Rites: Palestine and the Limits of Academic Freedom with Dr. Steven Salaita*
> 
> **




Before complaining about Academic Freedom he should check his racist bigotry,
for which he was dismissed as an educator.

Now Your doctor is a butthurt ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

The "deal of the century" @ 30:50


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The "deal of the century" @ 30:50



Which is what they deserve “ Nothing”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The best part of that video is when there was silence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dareen Tatour, imprisoned for her poetry, was released on Thursday and we managed to get our letter read to her that 5,000 of you signed!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Dareen Tatour, imprisoned for her poetry, was released on Thursday and we managed to get our letter read to her that 5,000 of you signed!



She was imprisoned for incitement. Although, rabid Jew haters do have a habit of making heroes of that element.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour is free!

"After three years of suffering, imprisonment and house arrest...I have gained my freedom and I will continue to write.”







Israeli Arab poet Dareen Tatour, convicted of incitement, released from prison


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour is free!
> 
> "After three years of suffering, imprisonment and house arrest...I have gained my freedom and I will continue to write.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli Arab poet Dareen Tatour, convicted of incitement, released from prison




"I have gained my freedom and I will continue to write.”

Until you incite people to gee-had and attacks on Israel. ​


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour, imprisoned for her poetry, was released on Thursday and we managed to get our letter read to her that 5,000 of you signed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was imprisoned for incitement. Although, rabid Jew haters do have a habit of making heroes of that element.
Click to expand...

Pfffft, is name calling all you got?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dareen Tatour, imprisoned for her poetry, was released on Thursday and we managed to get our letter read to her that 5,000 of you signed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was imprisoned for incitement. Although, rabid Jew haters do have a habit of making heroes of that element.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pfffft, is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...


Your usual tactic that involves waving the flag of retreat.


----------



## Hollie

Senior Fatah Official Calls for Intifada against Hamas, Adds: Israel Has Designs on the Nile, Mecca.




Gee whiz. I wonder how he found out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Five-Year Fight to Shut Down 'War Games Training' in the Bay Area*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Five-Year Fight to Shut Down 'War Games Training' in the Bay Area*



There were war games in the bay of Pal’istan?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Five-Year Fight to Shut Down 'War Games Training' in the Bay Area*
> 
> **



What does this have to do with I/P?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Occupation Forces Kill Prisoner Mohammad al Rimawi in Morning Raid *

“At around 4 in the morning, Israeli special forces entered the house. Following their arrival, a larger number of regular soldiers arrived as back up. After removing the door to the house, the soldiers attacked the individual’s mother and brought the members of the family into one part of the house. This included the mother, the father and three sons. The soldiers took Mohammad into a separate room, where he was beaten into an unconscious state. He was taken away from the house while in such a state, and taken to an unknown location. After two hours, his family was informed of their son’s death.”

Occupation Forces Kill Prisoner Mohammad al Rimawi in Morning Raid


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Five-Year Fight to Shut Down 'War Games Training' in the Bay Area*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with I/P?
Click to expand...

The program was led by Lara Kiswani, a Palestinian activist.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Five-Year Fight to Shut Down 'War Games Training' in the Bay Area*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with I/P?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The program was led by Lara Kiswani, a Palestinian activist.
Click to expand...


So... this has nothing to do with I/P.

Super!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


>



Personally, I think the Jewish people should embrace every bit of UNWRA.  The concept is pretty sweet.  A never-ending, perpetual, eternal right to re-settle in your historical homeland (even if you are colonial invaders) and endless annual funds in the meantime?  Where can the Jewish people sign up for THAT?!  Oh wait, it doesn't apply to Jews.  Because....Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






P F Tinmore said:


> *Occupation Forces Kill Prisoner Mohammad al Rimawi in Morning Raid *
> 
> “At around 4 in the morning, Israeli special forces entered the house. Following their arrival, a larger number of regular soldiers arrived as back up. After removing the door to the house, the soldiers attacked the individual’s mother and brought the members of the family into one part of the house. This included the mother, the father and three sons. The soldiers took Mohammad into a separate room, where he was beaten into an unconscious state. He was taken away from the house while in such a state, and taken to an unknown location. After two hours, his family was informed of their son’s death.”
> 
> Occupation Forces Kill Prisoner Mohammad al Rimawi in Morning Raid



To quote SHERI “ They reap what they sow!”  Two can play that game !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


These clowns don't even know what UNWRA is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Doomed Palestinian village turns to Europe as last hope*

KHAN AL-AHMAR, West Bank (AP) — For the anxious Palestinian residents of Khan al-Ahmar, there’s little left to do but wait.

After the West Bank hamlet lost its last legal protection against demolition late last week, Israeli forces could swoop in any day now to tear down the desert community’s few dozen shacks and an Italian-funded schoolhouse made from recycled tires.

Some hold out hope that Israel might be deterred by an inevitable international outcry over razing the community. Major European countries have warned that flattening Khan al-Ahmar poses a grave threat to the already fading prospects of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Israel has portrayed the battle over Khan al-Ahmar as a mere zoning dispute. Critics of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s policies say the village has become a symbol for what they describe as an ongoing displacement of Palestinians to make room for Israeli settlements.

With demolition now looming, dozens of activists, including foreigners, have been spending nights in Khan al-Ahmar to show support. They sleep on mattresses spread out under green tarp covering the front yard of the Italian-funded school.

The 180 residents of Khan al-Ahmar are members of the Jahalin Bedouin tribe that has lived in the area since being expelled from the southern Negev Desert after Israel’s establishment in 1948. The United Nations granted them refugee status.

*




*
Protesters and activists block an Israeli army bulldozer. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)

Doomed Palestinian village turns to Europe as last hope


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

PEN International strongly condemns the decision of the Nazareth Magistrate's Court to convict Palestinian poet Dareen Tatour of ‘support for a terrorist organization’ and ‘incitement to violence’. The conviction is mainly related to a YouTube video in which she recites one of her poems entitled, ‘Qawim ya sha’abi, qawimhum (Resist, my people, resist them).’

PEN International President Jennifer Clement, who met Dareen Tatour at her home in Nazareth last year, said:

_“Dareen Tatour has been convicted for doing what writers do every day – we use our words to peacefully challenge injustice. I was incredibly honoured to meet Dareen at her home last year and PEN will continue to call for justice in this case.”_

Palestinian Dareen Tatour Convicted for Poem, Facebook Posts


----------



## P F Tinmore

Karel van Oosterom (Netherlands) on the planned demolition of Khan al-Ahmar - Security Council Media Stakeout (20 September 2018)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli occupation forces demolished a house belongs to an arab Palestinian family in #Negev, #Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Walid Mahmoud was live.
September 14 at 10:22 AM


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These clowns don't even know what UNWRA is.
Click to expand...


Of course they do. UNRWA is a bloated, out of control agency that has morphed into a dedicated, Islamic terrorist welfare fraud.


----------



## Hollie

Various muhammuds were live at the Tire Burning Riots.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Doomed Palestinian village turns to Europe as last hope*
> 
> KHAN AL-AHMAR, West Bank (AP) — For the anxious Palestinian residents of Khan al-Ahmar, there’s little left to do but wait.
> 
> After the West Bank hamlet lost its last legal protection against demolition late last week, Israeli forces could swoop in any day now to tear down the desert community’s few dozen shacks and an Italian-funded schoolhouse made from recycled tires.
> 
> Some hold out hope that Israel might be deterred by an inevitable international outcry over razing the community. Major European countries have warned that flattening Khan al-Ahmar poses a grave threat to the already fading prospects of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> Israel has portrayed the battle over Khan al-Ahmar as a mere zoning dispute. Critics of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s policies say the village has become a symbol for what they describe as an ongoing displacement of Palestinians to make room for Israeli settlements.
> 
> With demolition now looming, dozens of activists, including foreigners, have been spending nights in Khan al-Ahmar to show support. They sleep on mattresses spread out under green tarp covering the front yard of the Italian-funded school.
> 
> The 180 residents of Khan al-Ahmar are members of the Jahalin Bedouin tribe that has lived in the area since being expelled from the southern Negev Desert after Israel’s establishment in 1948. The United Nations granted them refugee status.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Protesters and activists block an Israeli army bulldozer. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)
> 
> Doomed Palestinian village turns to Europe as last hope



I think it’s fair, The Palestinians lost their “ legal protection?”  The Israelis lost their LEGAL rights to E, Jerusalem after 1948.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Various muhammuds were live at the Tire Burning Riots.



Do these SAVAGES really believe that Israel will let them inside their borders?  The Narrator clearly states they are opposing Israel’s right to their “ ancestral lands” which of course means Israel itself.  “ Right of Return”  according to the U.N. has one stipulation; Live in PEACE with your neighbors. For that reason alone, Israel is not bound by “ International Law”


----------



## Hollie

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Various muhammuds were live at the Tire Burning Riots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these SAVAGES really believe that Israel will let them inside their borders?  The Narrator clearly states they are opposing Israel’s right to their “ ancestral lands” which of course means Israel itself.  “ Right of Return”  according to the U.N. has one stipulation; Live in PEACE with your neighbors. For that reason alone, Israel is not bound by “ International Law”
Click to expand...


I will say that the intolerance that moslems hold for themselves and others is appalling to those of us in the West after all we've been through trying to move forward in securing freedom and equality for all members of our societies. But freedom in Islam is a mockery. There are rarely elected leaders. There is the sharia law as interpreted by the ulema, imams, and sheikhs. Above them is the Khalifah (Caliph) who is "God's shadow" on Earth, ruling over all Moslems. There is no plurality. There is the unyielding insistence that all mankind accept Islam's supremacy. There isn't even the slightest pretense of that one, true hallmark of political freedom: the ability to vote the leader out of office. Muhammud is the eternal leader, and an unelected one at that. This is Islam's greatest weakness and it is also what dooms it to retrogression.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The United Nations granted them refugee status.



Right?!  The HORROR that Israel should take these poor refugees and give them ownership of property, building materials, a cash settlement, and access to electricity, water, sewage and solid waste management, medical care, a school.  The absolute HORROR!

Btw, did you know that the remaining residents themselves have said they are being threatened by the PA if they talk about moving?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Resistance at 70: the future of the Palestinian national movement*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Resistance at 70: the future of the Palestinian national movement*
> 
> **



Going back to 1948 before Israel was recognized by the International Community, when the W. Bank. E. Jerusalem and Gaza were considered part of Jordan and Egypt and later on FORMALLY annexed. Yet we are supposed to believe they accepted Israel’s right to exist and the “ 67 Borders?”


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem failure and incompetence at 70.



Another decade - another useless dictator.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Police Brutality Reaches New Extremes Against Israeli-Palestinian Protesters*

**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Protests in Ramallah Challenge Abbas over Gaza*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Max Blumenthal, "The 51 Day War"*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Protests in Ramallah Challenge Abbas over Gaza*



Nothing a continuation of the ugly Hamas vs. Fatah Civil war won’t fix.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*High hopes*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *High hopes*


You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *High hopes*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...


You need to update your clerics.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## Hollie




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Do they have a plan in place for making sure protesters don't destroy them?  Or that Hamas won't control the grids?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Was Al being stupid?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Fem gee-had


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **



*November, 2017*:



 _*"Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?"*_










. . .according to you 

 _*now*_, (September 2018), they have *"Goofy Leaders."  *who's as goofy as terrorists ! 





now what _pt_ ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine: not our problem? | Ash Sarkar Meets Karma Nabulsi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Expo draws thousands in London despite smear campaign*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Expo draws thousands in London despite smear campaign*
> 
> **



_"Palestinian"? _
I prefer the real thing:


----------



## Hollie

Pal’istan Expo.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israel to dismantle illegal settlement, you mean.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine: not our problem? | Ash Sarkar Meets Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> **



I only listened to the first two sentences.  Summed up, they are:

We want the right to return and the right to self-determination to be fulfilled.

Hey guess, what?!  Same as what the Jewish people want.  

So stop with everything else and just give the two people what they want.  This isn't even hard.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine: not our problem? | Ash Sarkar Meets Karma Nabulsi*
> 
> **



Okay, so then she says that the "return of refugees is the original injustice".

I think she means the prevention of the return of refugees is the original injustice.  Sure.  I agree.  The original injustice was the rejection of the right of return for Jews.


----------



## Shusha

And then she says the origin of the conflict was the displacement of the Arab "Palestinian" people.  

Oh, so NOT!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh, cheer up. You have lots of disposable children you call “martyrs”. 

They serve your interests when you push them into harm’s way. A vehicle for propaganda as you spew your rabid Joooooo hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You’re on the Pallywood Production Studios payroll, right?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist aggressors   ——- >. Islamic terrorist losers.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Gee whiz, sweetie. Are you now trolling the threads at StormFronf for your photoshopped cut and paste cartoons?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



While you sleep soundly at night...

Or while you sit to enjoy your Shabbat meal...

Or while you buy lunch at a falafel stand...

Or while you pray in your synagogue...

Palestinian children may be stalking you with a knife to kill you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine’s Toughest Questions Have Simple Answers*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Israel-Palestine’s Toughest Questions Have Simple Answers, at Least From the Perspective of Islamic Fascists*
*
*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

_Suheir Hammad, Saleh Bakri, and Annemarie Jacir at Cannes Film Festival_


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorists In Gaza’istan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Cultural Program: A Conversation with Film Director Annemarie Jacir*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Death Cult Cultural Program


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Festival of Literature: Ahdaf Soueif at TEDxIIMRanchi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Windows Into Palestine Festival, The Telling Palestinian Story in America.*

**


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Story of terror?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestinian Film Festival Australia What Walaa Wants*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Pallywood Film Festival


*


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Against Israel's Colonial Tide: Palestinian Initiatives to Shape Their Future*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Death Cult Initiatives to Shape Their Future*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*50 Years since the Six-Day War | Session two: The legacies for Israeli society*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Misfits


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*

In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.

The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.

“The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”

Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.

“They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”

“Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.

‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation



Corrupt, incompetent Arabs-Moslems sold out other corrupt, incompetent Arabs-Moslems. 

So?

You found corrupt, incompetent Arab-Moslem dictators to console you. 

Super!


----------



## Hollie

Bumbling fools


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Water Shortage: Israeli policy leave Palestinian taps dry*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inside Story - Palestine water shortage*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farming Without Water. Palestinian Agriculture in the Jordan Valley*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation



Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger? 
Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Administrative Detention Order of Khalida Jarrar Confirmed”*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
Click to expand...

Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
Click to expand...


Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
Click to expand...

Israel killed the two state solution.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
Click to expand...


Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
Click to expand...

Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


So you agree they didn’t agree with the “ Two State Solution “ Israel can’t “ kill” what wasn’t there in the first place. GOOD WORK !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you agree they didn’t agree with the “ Two State Solution “ Israel can’t “ kill” what wasn’t there in the first place. GOOD WORK !!!
Click to expand...

Arafat was duped into thinking that Oslo was a stepping stone to statehood. Boy was he fooled.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
Click to expand...


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
Click to expand...




toomuchtime_ said:


> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.


It was never ratified by the Palestinians.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not according to your post. Oslo “ Sold us out” because it didn’t address PRIOR to 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

 
Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
Click to expand...

You are conflicting your own post.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are conflicting your own post.
Click to expand...


No I’m not. They are in mourning because the Accords did not address the land prior to 48


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation*
> 
> In September 1993 the world celebrated what it thought was the beginning of the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
> 
> The Oslo Accords was supposed to lead to a “comprehensive peace agreement” by 1999, and eventually, a Palestinian state, with the then newly-founded Palestinian Authority (PA) serving as an interim self-government.
> 
> The Oslo Accords signified, as Abu Shakdim put it, “a decision made by a few members of the Palestinian elite” that did not represent the desires of the Palestinian people.
> 
> “The whole idea of Oslo is giving the elite Palestinians the power to control a few areas in the West Bank,” she said, “it was created to have shared benefits between the Israelis and a few Palestinians. A few Palestinians got positions of power, and Israel consolidated its control over us.”
> 
> Meras al-Azza, a 25-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem, expressed similar sentiments to _Mondoweiss_ as he sat in his family’s modest courtyard.
> 
> “They sold out the Palestinian people,” he said matter of factly, when asked what he thought of the Accords. “Oslo was a great deal for Israel, and Israel alone.”
> 
> “Oslo signified the Palestinians giving up the rights to all the lands of pre-1948 Palestine to Israel. That’s two-thirds of our historic lands,” al-Azza, a third generation refugee, said.
> 
> ‘Oslo sold us out’: Young Palestinians on the moment that shaped their generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Post !  Lol.    Am I reading this Right; They are objecting to the “ occupation “ in 1948????    They have NO interest in “ The Two State Solution “ Don’t you realize that the more you post the more you make Israel’s position on this matter stronger?
> Remember these words; “ Live at Peace with your Neighbor” !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Starting in 1948? Just more proof they have no interest in “ The Two State Solution” Keep up the good work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel killed the two state solution.
Click to expand...

By existing?


----------



## toomuchtime_

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oslo was a shit agreement signed behind the backs of the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
Click to expand...

There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Behind the backs of which Palestinians?  It was signed by Arafat, who had the unwavering support of the vast majority of those who called themselves Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there is no legal requirement for a two state solution.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, there is no legal requirement for a two state solution.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that Oslo never should have been signed, and in fact, Israel should never have allowed the PLO to return from Tunisia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, there is no legal requirement for a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you that Oslo never should have been signed, and in fact, Israel should never have allowed the PLO to return from Tunisia.
Click to expand...

Israel thought it was the best way to dismantle the First Intifada.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, there is no legal requirement for a two state solution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you that Oslo never should have been signed, and in fact, Israel should never have allowed the PLO to return from Tunisia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel thought it was the best way to dismantle the First Intifada.
Click to expand...

No, it was US  pressure Israel yielded to.  It was a very poor decision that has done great harm  to  the Jews and the Arabs who were still in Judea, Samaria and Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photo of the day: Hasidic Jews protest against Israel in front of the United Nations headquarters during the 73rd session of the United Nations General Assembly, Sept. 27, 2018, in New York. Andres Kudacki | AP


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.
Click to expand...

Funny, I don't see any military targets down there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any military targets down there.
Click to expand...


Indeed, they are military targets when used by islamic terrorists to wage war.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any military targets down there.
Click to expand...

lol  You would only see military targets after the bombing if the bombs had missed them.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Photo of the day: Hasidic Jews protest against Israel in front of the United Nations headquarters during the 73rd session of the United Nations General Assembly, Sept. 27, 2018, in New York. Andres Kudacki | AP



Yes, you’re right. You believe you are clever in showing the above. However you CONVIENTLY don’t mention (or don’t know) the reason. They believe the Jewish State should not exist until the Messiah comes. 
 You claim Israel is responsible for the failing of the “ Two State Solution “ yet you post something that tells us Israel should be destroyed. Wouldn’t that be against “ International Law?” You like to chant about?  
KEEP POSTING!!!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you agree that Arafat legitimately represented the Palestinian people when he signed Oslo and that you were wrong in asserting it was signed behind their backs.  On the other hand, Rabin clearly did not represent the majority of Israelis when he signed Oslo, and was only bowing down to US pressure from the infamous Clintons.  It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It only passed the Knesset by one vote and without Clinton's boot on its neck, Israel would never have signed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never ratified by the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation ; They don’t accept the “ Two State Solution “ which meame they have no interest in “ International Law “.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no relevant international law and there never was a two state solution, just a two state illusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, there is no legal requirement for a two state solution.
Click to expand...


GOOD !! Then Israel isn’t LEGALLY bound to go back to Borders that never existed


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo of the day: Hasidic Jews protest against Israel in front of the United Nations headquarters during the 73rd session of the United Nations General Assembly, Sept. 27, 2018, in New York. Andres Kudacki | AP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you’re right. You believe you are clever in showing the above. However you CONVIENTLY don’t mention (or don’t know) the reason. They believe the Jewish State should not exist until the Messiah comes.
> You claim Israel is responsible for the failing of the “ Two State Solution “ yet you post something that tells us Israel should be destroyed. Wouldn’t that be against “ International Law?” You like to chant about?
> KEEP POSTING!!!!!
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Wouldn’t that be against “ International Law?” You like to chant about?


Not really.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photo of the day: Hasidic Jews protest against Israel in front of the United Nations headquarters during the 73rd session of the United Nations General Assembly, Sept. 27, 2018, in New York. Andres Kudacki | AP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you’re right. You believe you are clever in showing the above. However you CONVIENTLY don’t mention (or don’t know) the reason. They believe the Jewish State should not exist until the Messiah comes.
> You claim Israel is responsible for the failing of the “ Two State Solution “ yet you post something that tells us Israel should be destroyed. Wouldn’t that be against “ International Law?” You like to chant about?
> KEEP POSTING!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn’t that be against “ International Law?” You like to chant about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
Click to expand...


You’re right..,  The U.N. recognition of Israel wouldn’t be considered “ International Law”
. Then Israel doesn’t have to go back to boundaries that YOU say never existed. See how that works???!


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any military targets down there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You would only see military targets after the bombing if the bombs had missed them.
Click to expand...

Israel bombed thousands of homes and businesses, yet only killed a couple hundred militants.

Your numbers do not add up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you are more interested in killing Jews than in feeding your children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, I don't see any military targets down there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  You would only see military targets after the bombing if the bombs had missed them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel bombed thousands of homes and businesses, yet only killed a couple hundred militants.
> 
> Your numbers do not add up.
Click to expand...


Indeed, the numbers add up to a couple hundred dead, otherwise oxygen wasting Islamic terrorists,

What’s the big deal with some broken windows and screen doors. Welfare pays for it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian groups to UN: Abbas has lost his legitimacy *

More than 60 Palestinian civil society organisations yesterday sent a letter to the United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres stating that the Palestinian Authority (PA)’s President Mahmoud Abbas “had lost his legitimacy”.

According to Safa news agency, the Palestinian organisations attributed their claims to article 36 of the Palestinian Basic Law of 2003 and its amendments in 2005.

The law’s article states that “a president’s term in office lasts for four years and the president has the right to run for a second term.”

Based on the Palestinian Basic Law, the rights institutions stressed, Abbas has to run for another presidential election to be able to renew his legitimacy or hand over the leadership to his successor.

Palestinian groups to UN: Abbas has lost his legitimacy


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Egyptian delegation tells Hamas Israel wants an end to demonstrations *

The Israeli news website_ Wallah_ revealed yesterday that the Egyptian delegation which visited Gaza on Saturday passed a message from Israel to Hamas, _Al-Wattan Voice _reported.

The Egyptians, the news website said, told Hamas that Israel is asking for an end to the demonstrations taking place near the fence along the eastern side of the Gaza Strip and to halt flying incendiary balloons.

Egyptian delegation tells Hamas Israel wants an end to demonstrations


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Egyptian delegation tells Hamas Israel wants an end to demonstrations *
> 
> The Israeli news website_ Wallah_ revealed yesterday that the Egyptian delegation which visited Gaza on Saturday passed a message from Israel to Hamas, _Al-Wattan Voice _reported.
> 
> The Egyptians, the news website said, told Hamas that Israel is asking for an end to the demonstrations taking place near the fence along the eastern side of the Gaza Strip and to halt flying incendiary balloons.
> 
> Egyptian delegation tells Hamas Israel wants an end to demonstrations



Indeed, the IAF is done with the ill-advised “discretionary use of force” and will use, how shall we say... “more persuasive means”, to deal with the Arab-Moslem terrorists.

Israeli Air Force Targets Palestinian with 'Flaming Kites' (VIDEO)

Wave goodbye to the dead martyrs walking.

*Israeli Air Force Targets Palestinian with ‘Flaming Kites’ (VIDEO)*
June 17, 2018 Blog, Videos


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Translation; The Pre “ 1948 Borders Will Be Free”.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Arab-Moslem settlers stealing land and building illegal settlements won’t be tolerated.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Yesterday (9/28) was the most violent and deadly assault on Gaza protesters since May 14 when Israeli forces killed 60 Palestinians. Yesterday they killed 11-year-old Nasser Azmi Khalil Musbeh (photo on left) who was shot in the head with live ammo. He was reportedly around 500 - 650 feet away from the fence when killed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Omar Barghouti, BDS movement cofounder, has suffered the loss of his mother who died in Jordan. He is being prevented (banned) by Israel from traveling to her funeral. We send our deepest sympathy to him and surviving family members.


----------



## P F Tinmore

How Belfast greeted the Israel soccer team arriving for a "friendly" with Northern Ireland


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

No gee-had for islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel cries foul as Real Madrid hosts Palestinian icon *

*Palestinian resistance icon Ahed Tamimi has been symbolically awarded Real Madrid’s number 9 jersey, in a move that has prompted Israel to accuse the club of “embracing terrorism.”*

The 17-year-old is touring Europe after being released from an Israeli jail where she was held for slapping and pushing Israeli forces outside her home in the occupied West Bank late last year. 

Tamimi was invited by Real and on Saturday arrived at the club where she was received by former striker and co-manager Emilio Butragenio and given the jersey which bore her name.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


>



Their Uncivilized Mentality.    Yet I’m supposed to be sorry when a Palestinian is killed?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



So much effort to picture Jihadis as "poets".
She posted she would be the next suicide attacker and incited others to do th same.

*Q. What would a US citizen get for public incitement of suicide attacks?*


----------



## Mindful

Tinmore.

Up yours!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Between Fire and Sea: The Man Behind Gaza's Great March of Return*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


*They complain about Israeli treatment of underage criminals*
*but have no problem with this kind of "parents":*

A "Palestinian" father yells and taunts IDF soldiers, demanding that they kill his little 3-year-old child, Muhammad Suroor, so it can be captured on video for propaganda purposes.
Instead, the Israeli soldier shakes the young "Palestinian" child's hand and tries to talk with him. The father then ordering his child not to be afraid, to throw rocks at the soldiers and to raise the flag so they will shoot him.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>





Complains about Hamas use of religion,
comes back minutes later with a another bunch of religiously indoctrinated Jew-haters.

You never fail to contradict Your own bs


----------



## P F Tinmore

Interview with Dr. Salman Abu Sitta at the Right of Return conference


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh Brings to Light The Disabled's Forgotten Civil Rights Movement:*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Interview with Dr. Salman Abu Sitta at the Right of Return conference



YAWN.... Let them keep pushing. The goal to eventually have a Palestinian majority is not going to happen.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Between Fire and Sea: The Man Behind Gaza's Great March of Return*
> 
> **




Oh!  You have GOT to be kidding me!  

"I resent the occupation because it ruins my evening walks."  Smoke getting in his eyes?  FFS.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




End Arab Palestinian abuse of children.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Interview with Dr. Salman Abu Sitta at the Right of Return conference






I actually laugh after reading posts like these or You Tube Videos on the ' Right of Return"  Because every time you post one it gives us a chance to Prove what were to happen if Israel were stupid enough to do it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
You laughed.

It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.

If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.

He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.

Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,


The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.

So, where is their part of the conflict?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
Click to expand...


Let's stop pretending that Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were not initial causes of this war.
It was exactly the trigger that pushed Jews to organize internationally as a defense mechanism even prior to the Holocaust.

Let's stop pretending that Jews from Europe weren't an integral part of Palestinian Jewish community for centuries, or that they weren't systematically targeted as all other Jews by their Arab neighbors. Let's stop pretending that Arabs didn't flood the country when Jews started to arrive.

Stop with the pretense, it's pathetic beyond any measure of common sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were not initial causes of this war.
> It was exactly the trigger that pushed Jews to organize internationally as a defense mechanism even prior to the Holocaust.
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Jews from Europe weren't an integral part of Palestinian Jewish community for centuries, or that they weren't systematically targeted as all other Jews by their Arab neighbors. Let's stop pretending that Arabs didn't flood the country when Jews started to arrive.
> 
> Stop with the pretense, it's pathetic beyond any measure of common sense.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?



Its important to use the right language here.  The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when the Jewish people began returning to their homeland to reconstitute their nation.  See your version only works because you deny the reality.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were not initial causes of this war.
> It was exactly the trigger that pushed Jews to organize internationally as a defense mechanism even prior to the Holocaust.
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Jews from Europe weren't an integral part of Palestinian Jewish community for centuries, or that they weren't systematically targeted as all other Jews by their Arab neighbors. Let's stop pretending that Arabs didn't flood the country when Jews started to arrive.
> 
> Stop with the pretense, it's pathetic beyond any measure of common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Here's the thing, the only way to explain Your broad denial is by reaching to the only available conclusion - that You believe a sacrifice of  Palestinian Arabs is an acceptable price to be paid for removing Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its important to use the right language here.  The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when the Jewish people began returning to their homeland to reconstitute their nation.  See your version only works because you deny the reality.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Its important to use the right language here.


I did.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian writer speaks on Palestinian resistance*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Any real case of rape, or is she merely sharing her sexual fantasies?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian writer speaks on Palestinian resistance*
> 
> **



Caliphate is a direct continuation of Arab colonialism, not its' removal.
Try again.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any real case of rape, or is she merely sharing her sexual fantasies?
Click to expand...


Yeah as usual we're supposed to take her fantasies as divine revelation,
and pretend that shit doesn't stink.

Usual Pallywood storytelling contest.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  et al,

Two things I noticed in the News.


White House national security adviser John Bolton says Palestine is 'not a state'
While the U.S. does not recognize Palestine as a state, 137 of the 193 U.N. member countries do. Bolton went on to say that h...



US pulls out of Vienna treaty amendment to block Palestinian lawsuit
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has pulled the United States out of an amendment to the Vienna ... the United States wi...​
Interesting...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Two things I noticed in the News.
> 
> View attachment 220176
> White House national security adviser John Bolton says Palestine is 'not a state'
> While the U.S. does not recognize Palestine as a state, 137 of the 193 U.N. member countries do. Bolton went on to say that h...
> View attachment 220181
> US pulls out of Vienna treaty amendment to block Palestinian lawsuit
> WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has pulled the United States out of an amendment to the Vienna ... the United States wi...​
> Interesting...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


Trump said he was going to drain the swamp. Then he packs his administration with swamp creatures.

Fail.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→  et al,
> 
> Two things I noticed in the News.
> 
> View attachment 220176
> White House national security adviser John Bolton says Palestine is 'not a state'
> While the U.S. does not recognize Palestine as a state, 137 of the 193 U.N. member countries do. Bolton went on to say that h...
> View attachment 220181
> US pulls out of Vienna treaty amendment to block Palestinian lawsuit
> WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has pulled the United States out of an amendment to the Vienna ... the United States wi...​
> Interesting...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


No offence but that guy is fucking moron. He doesn't represent america or anyone else significant.


----------



## Ecocertifmrl

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were not initial causes of this war.
> It was exactly the trigger that pushed Jews to organize internationally as a defense mechanism even prior to the Holocaust.
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Jews from Europe weren't an integral part of Palestinian Jewish community for centuries, or that they weren't systematically targeted as all other Jews by their Arab neighbors. Let's stop pretending that Arabs didn't flood the country when Jews started to arrive.
> 
> Stop with the pretense, it's pathetic beyond any measure of common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's the thing, the only way to explain Your broad denial is by reaching to the only available conclusion - that You believe a sacrifice of  Palestinian Arabs is an acceptable price to be paid for removing Israel.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you suggest we exterminate them all...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

And Israel bitches about Palestinian incitement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pallywood rules, Dude.


----------



## Hollie

The wonders of Arab-Moslem history.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How fortunate for you.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

*Hamas again admits that Gaza is not occupied*





In the same interview where Hamas leader Fathi Hammad offered to give rockets to Arab countries to attack the Jews, he said:

*Gaza was liberated under the watch of Hamas*, through the Jihad of Hamas, with its men, its plans, and its leaders. Gaza has become the first Palestinian area to be liberated in this era, Allah be praised. (Hamas) has proven itself through its rule - the Jihadi, political, progressive rule of Gaza. Allah be praised, nobody has died of hunger or anything. *On the contrary, following the liberation of Gaza,* our Jihadi, 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassam units have become an army, Allah be praised


----------



## rylah

Ecocertifmrl said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I suggested a Sulha (middle easter tradition of peace making between rival tribes),
> You laughed.
> 
> It implies Arabs and Jews sitting for a long period, in a ceremony promoted by the elders of the community to listen and hear, without interruption of any side, about all the suffering and misery both have gone through because of the conflict.
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim, it could dissolve a lot of mental rigidity, and bring viable results, in spite of all cynicism. It DOES happen to work throughout the middle east between the many tribes that have been at war for generations. Not a magic pill to all problems but works when numbers and disputed territory are relatively small, which happens to be exactly our case. It already works quietly in several high risk places like Hebron and the surrounding areas of Judea Samaria, away from propaganda channels, government and foreign media interruption.
> 
> He got only half of that correct,, but unfortunately went down straight into the slippery slope of adding fuel and prolonging the conflict for the next generation by totally obsolving one side of the same responsibility.
> I just don't get how one can demand to absolve one side of all responsibility  while transferring all the blame on the other and expect it will result in anything different than what we've seen until now.
> 
> Europeans just don't have the mental capacity to understand middle east, they're like an elephant in a glass shop - he's a vivid example of how European ignorance prolongs the conflict with their delusional promises and twisted morals that have no place in middle eastern cultures that have figured their own lexicon and ways millenniums before Europe became civilized..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arabs were brave enough to acknowledge their part in the conflict, rather than playing the innocent victim,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Europeans came down and threw shit into the fan.
> 
> So, where is their part of the conflict?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Arab pogroms against Jews in Syria-Palestine were not initial causes of this war.
> It was exactly the trigger that pushed Jews to organize internationally as a defense mechanism even prior to the Holocaust.
> 
> Let's stop pretending that Jews from Europe weren't an integral part of Palestinian Jewish community for centuries, or that they weren't systematically targeted as all other Jews by their Arab neighbors. Let's stop pretending that Arabs didn't flood the country when Jews started to arrive.
> 
> Stop with the pretense, it's pathetic beyond any measure of common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's the thing, the only way to explain Your broad denial is by reaching to the only available conclusion - that You believe a sacrifice of  Palestinian Arabs is an acceptable price to be paid for removing Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like you suggest we exterminate them all...
Click to expand...

I'm merely saying there's no way for the Arabs to destroy Israel and survive at the same time.
People who keep feeding them that delusion, are usually armchair Jihadis who couldn't care less about anyone involved on either side, so they're ready to pay that price from thousands of miles away.

Same goes for the mullahs in Iran, who will spare no Lebanese, Syrian, Gazan or Yemenite while sitting in their golden palaces.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Just for Fun  Reference Posting #5750 by P F Tinmore
FOR:  P F Tinmore. et al,





​
Don't be such a Drama Queen, and over exaggerating the bomb damage.  If Gaza had been hit with the same magnitude and frequency in attack as Japan had, we would not even be having this discussion.  Gaza would be history.

The Arab Palestinians should be ashamed of themselves for even trying to make a comparison such as P F Tinmore did.  Just in one single night (10 March 45), the 20th Air Force _(Army Air Corps)_ made a strike on Tokyo that killed over 100,000 people *(that is two hours and 40 minutes over the target)*.   That would be the equivalent of one-fifth of Gaza City today.



​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Let me get this straight,
racism is wrong but You're not going to condemn it when it's turned against Jews on campuses nationwide?

Just wow


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Isn't that the whore who used to go into Universities
telling students that Jews are bringing Arab slaves in shackles to work in the fields?

You never miss an opportunity to post the most ridiculously hateful and deranged people one can find in Pallywod.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used to go into Universities
> telling students that Jews are bringing Arab slaves in shackles to work in the fields?
> 
> You never miss an opportunity to post the most ridiculously hateful and deranged people one can find in Pallywod.
Click to expand...

I never heard that one. Must be one of those Israeli propaganda things.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the whore who used to go into Universities
> telling students that Jews are bringing Arab slaves in shackles to work in the fields?
> 
> You never miss an opportunity to post the most ridiculously hateful and deranged people one can find in Pallywod.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never heard that one. Must be one of those Israeli propaganda things.
Click to expand...


You have "never heard that one"??!
It was YOU scumbag Nazi lowlife who POSTED IT:


Lamis 'I'm not a street prostitute' Deek said:
_"Palestinian children were actually enslaved by the Israeli boss.
The children would be pulled out of schools, tied and forced to work the land they once owned, right? I'm not talking about past history this happened until the 80's-90's, and to a large extent still happens today"_
(4:43-5:01)

*You and her are the racist lying scum of the earth of the lowest order,
may G-d spare us of Your poisonous existence, erase Your wicked name, Your seed and memory from this world soon and forever!
NEVER AGAIN!*


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


I don't see a flag pole.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

Nazi flag flying high in PA controlled Beit Umar
Israel National News and Israel’s Channel 4 are both reporting  that  Israelis motorists driving by the Palestinian Authority controlled village of Beit Umar were shocked by the sight of the Nazi flag flying high above the village. This is the second time in five months that the town has flown the swastika above a highly trafficked highway that runs by Beit Umar, near Hevron.

Israel National News – _For at least the second time in five months, Arab residents of Beit Umar in the Palestinian Authority (PA) have placed a Nazi flag over a major thoroughfare where Jews pass in their vehicles. Beit Umar is located between Halhoul and the Etzion Bloc, not far from Hevron. Soldiers from the Haruv battalion in Kfir Regiment tried to take down the flag Saturday, but encountered difficulty because it was placed very high up. A similar event took place at Beit Umar in May, when hundreds of residentsof Gush Etzion who drove down Highway 60 were astounded to see an oversized Nazi flag flying next to a mosque in the Arab town._




*Nazi flag flying high in PA controlled Beit Umar*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Salma Karmi-Ayyoub (Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights)


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Salma Karmi-Ayyoub (Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights)



Is that about apartheid in Gaza'istan?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rosary Sisters Catholic High School in Jerusalem, Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Longing for Palestine: Art of Resistance. Palestinians fight back with graffiti, and rap*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Longing for Palestine: Art of Resistance. Palestinians fight back with graffiti, and rap*



Don’t forget about the gee-had waged against Israeli civilians which includes street stabbings / knife attacks, car ramming, rockets fired at civilian areas, incendiary kites..... 

Did I miss any others?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on the unbreakable spirit of Palestinians *

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*For Justice, Not Apartheid, in Palestine*
*A quarter-century after Oslo, Israel is consolidating its domination—but the global resistance movement is growing.*

This September marks the 25th anniversary of the Oslo Accords, which were heralded by many at the time of their signing as the dawn of a new era in the Middle East, one in which Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization would replace conflict with negotiations that would lead to peace and a Palestinian state.

Some observers at the time—including Edward Said, in this magazine—pointed out the flaws in that 1993 declaration, among them that while the PLO recognized the state of Israel and renounced violence, the accords never mentioned Israel’s occupation, never noted the illegality of Israeli settlements, and contained no promise—or, indeed, even any mention—of a Palestinian state as the end result of talks.

Whatever its virtues or flaws, the Oslo “peace process,” which has been on life support for years, is now dead. There have been no negotiations since the collapse in 2014 of the last set of talks, shepherded by Barack Obama’s secretary of state, John Kerry, and there is no sign of serious talks in the foreseeable future. What we have seen, instead, is a shocking deterioration of Palestinian life under the most right-wing government in Israel’s history.

For Justice, Not Apartheid, in Palestine


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *For Justice, Not Apartheid, in Palestine*
> *A quarter-century after Oslo, Israel is consolidating its domination—but the global resistance movement is growing.*
> 
> This September marks the 25th anniversary of the Oslo Accords, which were heralded by many at the time of their signing as the dawn of a new era in the Middle East, one in which Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization would replace conflict with negotiations that would lead to peace and a Palestinian state.
> 
> Some observers at the time—including Edward Said, in this magazine—pointed out the flaws in that 1993 declaration, among them that while the PLO recognized the state of Israel and renounced violence, the accords never mentioned Israel’s occupation, never noted the illegality of Israeli settlements, and contained no promise—or, indeed, even any mention—of a Palestinian state as the end result of talks.
> 
> Whatever its virtues or flaws, the Oslo “peace process,” which has been on life support for years, is now dead. There have been no negotiations since the collapse in 2014 of the last set of talks, shepherded by Barack Obama’s secretary of state, John Kerry, and there is no sign of serious talks in the foreseeable future. What we have seen, instead, is a shocking deterioration of Palestinian life under the most right-wing government in Israel’s history.
> 
> For Justice, Not Apartheid, in Palestine



Apartheid? 

You don’t know what the term means.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> * ... *is a shocking deterioration of Palestinian life under the most right-wing government in Israel’s history.



Rather a shocking deterioration of Palestinian life under their own governments.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> —pointed out the flaws in that 1993 declaration, among them that while the PLO recognized the state of Israel and renounced violence, the accords never mentioned Israel’s occupation, never noted the illegality of Israeli settlements ...



The Jewish "settlements" weren't considered illegal then.  A completely unrelated law has been adapted in order to apply standards to Israel where no such standards exist for other countries.  

The Olso Accords are dead because of the continued quest for the Arab Palestinians to remove Israel from the map and forbid Jewish self-determination.  One hundred years, same story, same result.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why Israel wants to destroy Khan al Ahmar*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian village facing demolition - BBC News*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Israel wants to destroy Khan al Ahmar*
> 
> **




Oh give me a break. They want to move them four km away so they aren't right on top of the highway and give them free land and property and building materials and compensation as well as proper infrastructure for medical clinics schools electricity water solid waste management and sewer treatments. 

The HORROR!

Ethnic cleansing is just another scary word tossed around to demonize Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Israel wants to destroy Khan al Ahmar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. They want to move them four km away so they aren't right on top of the highway and give them free land and property and building materials and compensation as well as proper infrastructure for medical clinics schools electricity water solid waste management and sewer treatments.
> 
> The HORROR!
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is just another scary word tossed around to demonize Israel.
Click to expand...

Israel's goal is to move all Palestinians into bantustans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dima Khalidi: Pressures on universities to discipline students & faculty for speech activities.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine Tensions: Bedouin villages under threat of demolition*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*With Little Left to Lose, Gaza’s Great Return March Protesters Ramp Up Their Resistance *

UNITED NATIONS —
As the Great March of Return roared past its half-year anniversary last Friday, it also seemed to reach levels of resistance and repression not seen in months.

The escalation aims to “put more pressure on the Israeli occupation authorities, hoping they meet the protesters’ demands — lifting the siege and recognizing the right to return,” a spokesperson for the Hamas movement told MintPress News.

Every Friday since March 30, the demonstration has mobilized thousands of Palestinians to a military barrier erected by Israel around the Gaza Strip.

Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.

“The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”





A Palestinian man and his son warm themselves by a fire during cold, rainy weather on the outskirts of the Khan Younis refugee camp in southern Gaza, Jan. 5, 2018. Khalil Hamra | AP


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *With Little Left to Lose, Gaza’s Great Return March Protesters Ramp Up Their Resistance *
> 
> UNITED NATIONS —
> As the Great March of Return roared past its half-year anniversary last Friday, it also seemed to reach levels of resistance and repression not seen in months.
> 
> The escalation aims to “put more pressure on the Israeli occupation authorities, hoping they meet the protesters’ demands — lifting the siege and recognizing the right to return,” a spokesperson for the Hamas movement told MintPress News.
> 
> Every Friday since March 30, the demonstration has mobilized thousands of Palestinians to a military barrier erected by Israel around the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian man and his son warm themselves by a fire during cold, rainy weather on the outskirts of the Khan Younis refugee camp in southern Gaza, Jan. 5, 2018. Khalil Hamra | AP


Let's pretend they didn't ruin their lives because attempting to murder Jews. 

Now they've whine.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel's goal is to move all Palestinians into bantustans.



No wonder that whenever facts contradict their bigotry,
racist BDS thugs resort to spreading blood libels about skin color.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Israel wants to destroy Khan al Ahmar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. They want to move them four km away so they aren't right on top of the highway and give them free land and property and building materials and compensation as well as proper infrastructure for medical clinics schools electricity water solid waste management and sewer treatments.
> 
> The HORROR!
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is just another scary word tossed around to demonize Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's goal is to move all Palestinians into bantustans.
Click to expand...


Another of the silly slogans you stole and cut and paste.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *With Little Left to Lose, Gaza’s Great Return March Protesters Ramp Up Their Resistance *
> 
> UNITED NATIONS —
> As the Great March of Return roared past its half-year anniversary last Friday, it also seemed to reach levels of resistance and repression not seen in months.
> 
> The escalation aims to “put more pressure on the Israeli occupation authorities, hoping they meet the protesters’ demands — lifting the siege and recognizing the right to return,” a spokesperson for the Hamas movement told MintPress News.
> 
> Every Friday since March 30, the demonstration has mobilized thousands of Palestinians to a military barrier erected by Israel around the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian man and his son warm themselves by a fire during cold, rainy weather on the outskirts of the Khan Younis refugee camp in southern Gaza, Jan. 5, 2018. Khalil Hamra | AP



The former Christian and Jewish dhimmis now surpass you in every measurable way. How far you have fallen.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Do you really believe this_?_



P F Tinmore said:


> 25 YEARS of NOTHING


*(REFERENCE)*

Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
September 13, 1993
The Government of the State of Israel and the P.L.O.

*ARTICLE V
TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS*

1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
3. It is understood that these *negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest*.
4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
* International Law and the ‘Permanent Status’ Issues*
*•  Book by:  GEOFFREY R. WATSON  •*



			
				Professor Geoffrey Watson said:
			
		

> The Oslo Accords lists seven ‘permanent status’ issues in the following order:
> 
> (1) Jerusalem,
> (2) refugees,
> (3) settlements,
> (4) security arrangements,
> (5) borders,
> (6) relations and cooperation with other neighbours, and
> (7) other issues of common interest.​
> International law offers general guidance on how the parties might resolve most of the final-status issues. The main part of the task ahead it political, not legal. The law will not dictate any particular outcome. But it can draw baselines for parties, set limits, and help advance negotiations by providing a common language for discussion.



*(COMMENT*)

While the print does not change on the Oslo Accords, the faces that were involved in those proceeding change, except for one, have faded away. 

Hmmmm_*!*_



 ​Yes, that's right.  The handsome guy to the far right is none other than President Mahmoud Abbas.  

He was there.  He was rubbing elbows with the power brokers of the day.  He was Chairman Arafat's Right Hand.  And as we know, he was there → Rabat ('74), when the Arab League presided over the coronation of Arafat as the "Sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  Yes, it was the League of Arab States (LAS) that empowered Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), when the Arab Palestinians had no government.

Yes, the little video sates in it last summation that:  The Palestinians "never really had any legitimate political representation and the Israeli government is determined to eliminate all vestiges of Palestine."  I cannot speak to what the Israeli Governments final goals and objectives.  BUT, the last man standing of the seven men at the table is "_Mahmoud Abbas_."   And if there is anyone to really comment on the choice and selection of the "Sole Representative of the Palestinian" it would be the membership of the Arab League.

Yes, these pro-Palestinian Publishers of this classy little sound bites may align the stars to make it totally Israel's fault.  But the Celestial Power of the Universe knows better.

Just My Thought...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Israel wants to destroy Khan al Ahmar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh give me a break. They want to move them four km away so they aren't right on top of the highway and give them free land and property and building materials and compensation as well as proper infrastructure for medical clinics schools electricity water solid waste management and sewer treatments.
> 
> The HORROR!
> 
> Ethnic cleansing is just another scary word tossed around to demonize Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel's goal is to move all Palestinians into bantustans.
Click to expand...


Israel's goal is to have a thriving, vibrant State without being constantly attacked by her neighbors and from within.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The escalation aims to “put more pressure on the Israeli occupation authorities, hoping they meet the protesters’ demands — lifting the siege and recognizing the right to return,” a spokesperson for the Hamas movement ...



Its having the opposite effect.  The more violence erupts out of Gaza the more Israel is justified in maintaining the blockade and border controls and in rejecting any idea of integrating Gazans into Israeli society.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.

*(APOLOGY)*

I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize. 



P F Tinmore said:


> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”


*(COMMENT)*

Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year. 

He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il): 

✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.

In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome. 

Very Sincerely,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Do you really believe this_?_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 YEARS of NOTHING
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
> September 13, 1993
> The Government of the State of Israel and the P.L.O.
> 
> *ARTICLE V
> TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS*
> 
> 1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
> 2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
> 3. It is understood that these *negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest*.
> 4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
> * International Law and the ‘Permanent Status’ Issues*
> *•  Book by:  GEOFFREY R. WATSON  •*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Professor Geoffrey Watson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords lists seven ‘permanent status’ issues in the following order:
> 
> (1) Jerusalem,
> (2) refugees,
> (3) settlements,
> (4) security arrangements,
> (5) borders,
> (6) relations and cooperation with other neighbours, and
> (7) other issues of common interest.​International law offers general guidance on how the parties might resolve most of the final-status issues. The main part of the task ahead it political, not legal. The law will not dictate any particular outcome. But it can draw baselines for parties, set limits, and help advance negotiations by providing a common language for discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> While the print does not change on the Oslo Accords, the faces that were involved in those proceeding change, except for one, have faded away.
> 
> Hmmmm_*!*_
> 
> View attachment 221249​Yes, that's right.  The handsome guy to the far right is none other than President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> He was there.  He was rubbing elbows with the power brokers of the day.  He was Chairman Arafat's Right Hand.  And as we know, he was there → Rabat ('74), when the Arab League presided over the coronation of Arafat as the "Sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  Yes, it was the League of Arab States (LAS) that empowered Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), when the Arab Palestinians had no government.
> 
> Yes, the little video sates in it last summation that:  The Palestinians "never really had any legitimate political representation and the Israeli government is determined to eliminate all vestiges of Palestine."  I cannot speak to what the Israeli Governments final goals and objectives.  BUT, the last man standing of the seven men at the table is "_Mahmoud Abbas_."   And if there is anyone to really comment on the choice and selection of the "Sole Representative of the Palestinian" it would be the membership of the Arab League.
> 
> Yes, these pro-Palestinian Publishers of this classy little sound bites may align the stars to make it totally Israel's fault.  But the Celestial Power of the Universe knows better.
> 
> Just My Thought...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The only thing Oslo was for Israel to cement the occupation and allow it to continue its settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.
> 
> *(APOLOGY)*
> 
> I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year.
> 
> He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il):
> 
> ✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
> I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.
> 
> In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Land and borders cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other. Borders define a piece of territory. Everything inside the borders is ours. Everything not in those borders is not.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.
> 
> *(APOLOGY)*
> 
> I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year.
> 
> He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il):
> 
> ✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
> I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.
> 
> In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Land and borders cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other. Borders define a piece of territory. Everything inside the borders is ours. Everything not in those borders is not.
Click to expand...


Are you referring to the borders of the "country of Pally'land"?  Who is the "ours" that you are speaking on behalf of?

BTW, land and borders obviously _*can*_ be separated and reconfigured.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Do you really believe this_?_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25 YEARS of NOTHING
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements
> September 13, 1993
> The Government of the State of Israel and the P.L.O.
> 
> *ARTICLE V
> TRANSITIONAL PERIOD AND PERMANENT STATUS NEGOTIATIONS*
> 
> 1. The five-year transitional period will begin upon the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and Jericho area.
> 2. Permanent status negotiations will commence as soon as possible, but not later than the beginning of the third year of the interim period, between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian people representatives.
> 3. It is understood that these *negotiations shall cover remaining issues, including: Jerusalem, refugees, settlements, security arrangements, borders, relations and cooperation with other neighbors, and other issues of common interest*.
> 4. The two parties agree that the outcome of the permanent status negotiations should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.​
> * International Law and the ‘Permanent Status’ Issues*
> *•  Book by:  GEOFFREY R. WATSON  •*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Professor Geoffrey Watson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Oslo Accords lists seven ‘permanent status’ issues in the following order:
> 
> (1) Jerusalem,
> (2) refugees,
> (3) settlements,
> (4) security arrangements,
> (5) borders,
> (6) relations and cooperation with other neighbours, and
> (7) other issues of common interest.​International law offers general guidance on how the parties might resolve most of the final-status issues. The main part of the task ahead it political, not legal. The law will not dictate any particular outcome. But it can draw baselines for parties, set limits, and help advance negotiations by providing a common language for discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT*)
> 
> While the print does not change on the Oslo Accords, the faces that were involved in those proceeding change, except for one, have faded away.
> 
> Hmmmm_*!*_
> 
> View attachment 221249​Yes, that's right.  The handsome guy to the far right is none other than President Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> He was there.  He was rubbing elbows with the power brokers of the day.  He was Chairman Arafat's Right Hand.  And as we know, he was there → Rabat ('74), when the Arab League presided over the coronation of Arafat as the "Sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  Yes, it was the League of Arab States (LAS) that empowered Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), when the Arab Palestinians had no government.
> 
> Yes, the little video sates in it last summation that:  The Palestinians "never really had any legitimate political representation and the Israeli government is determined to eliminate all vestiges of Palestine."  I cannot speak to what the Israeli Governments final goals and objectives.  BUT, the last man standing of the seven men at the table is "_Mahmoud Abbas_."   And if there is anyone to really comment on the choice and selection of the "Sole Representative of the Palestinian" it would be the membership of the Arab League.
> 
> Yes, these pro-Palestinian Publishers of this classy little sound bites may align the stars to make it totally Israel's fault.  But the Celestial Power of the Universe knows better.
> 
> Just My Thought...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only thing Oslo was for Israel to cement the occupation and allow it to continue its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


Israel didn't need Oslo to "cement" anything, the Jewish Nation was already a rightful sovereign heir over all of that land.

Oslo was merely an agreement that gave the PLO (designated terrorist organization) a quasi-governmental status, that it couldn't achieve without the agreement from Israel.

It was a naive act of generosity, based on false hopes of coexistence with a genocidal Islamist entity, which have proven to be a grave mistake ever since.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.
> 
> *(APOLOGY)*
> 
> I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year.
> 
> He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il):
> 
> ✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
> I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.
> 
> In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Land and borders cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other. Borders define a piece of territory. Everything inside the borders is ours. Everything not in those borders is not.
Click to expand...


Looking at the long list of territorial disputes virtually on every continent, this statement is just a funny hallucination.

Everything inside the borders of Mandatory Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation by an act of international law, any other entity inside those borders are a result of violation of international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Kids Fighting Israel's Occupation *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.
> 
> *(APOLOGY)*
> 
> I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year.
> 
> He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il):
> 
> ✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
> I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.
> 
> In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Land and borders cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other. Borders define a piece of territory. Everything inside the borders is ours. Everything not in those borders is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looking at the long list of territorial disputes virtually on every continent, this statement is just a funny hallucination.
> 
> Everything inside the borders of Mandatory Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation by an act of international law, anything beyond is generosity.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  (OPEN APOLOGY) Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, here goes...  I have often said, that when I'm "wrong," I would own-up to it and acknowledge that.
> 
> *(APOLOGY)*
> 
> I owe P F Tinmore an open apology.  Just a little more than a month ago, I raked "P F Tinemore" over the coals and implied that he was unenlightened concerning the relationship between sovereign territory, territorial integrity or political independence of any state _(in this case Israel)_.  I was wrong --- at least in a part, over something of critical importance.  He has made a valid point, and it is recognized by me.  I sincerely apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  Israel’s defenders say the repression is necessary to protect the state’s borders, a claim that has drawn mockery from critics who note that Israel has never acknowledged any borders.
> 
> ...  “The Israeli occupation claims its soldiers shoot the protesters because they damage the borders,” the Hamas spokesperson said. “Let the Israelis tell us: do they have definite borders, and where are they?”
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not unlike the position he has pulled out of the quoted article, P F Tinmore has made this observation several times _(many several times)_ over the last couple of year.
> 
> He has asked several times for a Map of Israel.  Behind his question is that no one knows where Israel is (exactly).  I, like many, have given P F Tinmore all kinds of Maps, and none of them.  So finally, in a last ditch effort to lay the question to rest, I posed the question _(Sep 2 at 5:44 PM)_ to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (info@washington.mfa.gov.il):
> 
> ✪  BLUF:  I would appreciate a medium size digital map which unambiguously shows Israel Sovereign Territory.​
> I thought it was a fairly simple request.  I have experience working in an American Embassy _(over 5 years at three different posts Level 5 Clearance, but no official capacity)_.   This simple request is an assignment that an Administrative Assistant to a lowly Third Secretary.  But, alas - I guess there is some reason why they cannot answer the question.
> 
> In any event, while I still don't believe P F Tinmore's position is correct.  If "I" ask the Government of Israel the question, _supra,_ no acknowledgment and no reply is the outcome.
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Land and borders cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other. Borders define a piece of territory. Everything inside the borders is ours. Everything not in those borders is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looking at the long list of territorial disputes virtually on every continent, this statement is just a funny hallucination.
> 
> Everything inside the borders of Mandatory Palestine was vested with the sovereignty of the Jewish Nation by an act of international law, anything beyond is generosity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


In the *1924 Anglo American Convention* the U.S. agreed to support Great Britain as a Mandatory so long as the Mandatory abided by the *San Remo Resolution*. The sole purpose of the Resolution regarding Palestine was:


Drawing the borders of Palestine 

Reconstituting Palestine as a National Homeland for the Jewish People worldwide 

Recognizing the Jewish People's historical connection to the land
There was not even one word in the Mandate or the Anglo American convention about creating an Arab land in Palestine.


----------



## rylah

*The Jewish Claim to Jerusalem: The Case Under International Law*


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Kids Fighting Israel's Occupation*



*Arab-Moslem Death Cultists in Training.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The New Palestinians!*

There are the old guard of PLO, Fatah, Hamas, etc. who are in their 6os, 70s, and 80s. They have had few, if any, accomplishments in the last few decades.

Then there are the new Palestinians who are mostly under 40. Intelligent, articulate, and well educated, with a different view of what Palestine is to be. They have no interest in the established parties. They have made great strides in the Palestinian cause.


----------



## member

Shusha said:


> And then she says the origin of the conflict was the displacement of the Arab "Palestinian" people.
> 
> Oh, so NOT!



_Palestine_ - "_there was never a country called palestine"_ ---  

 sorry dude, there was).   yah, the palestinians, they definitely migrated from Jordan to "palestine" [where the hebrews lived first] ...then decided to call themselves palestinians....they _"ain't"_ native palestinians as montelaticci & company think....

the jordanians... 

 ....when they decided they wanted palestine for themselves...they beat people up and took over the place.....






In the Bible [_calm down mr_. - God is real] .... it's _israel this_ and _israel that_ -- heck, 

 the Bible reveres israel more than...any book. they also recognize israel [and palestine] in The World Atlas/Encyclopedia Britannica Unabridged, copyright 1942 thru 1947, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1954, page 30.  (wikipedia, LoL _'mary'_)   ......this book (15"x 11-1/2"), weighs like 50 Lbs.........Wikipedia......when you're there, can you order a latte from starbucks and play _candy-crush_ at the same time?

The Palestinians ....

 can't hurt to pray for Hamass and their...nasty Qassam ways...._God help them_....


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wattan TV: Khalida Jarrar Interview (English subtitles)*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Wattan TV: Khalida Jarrar Interview (English subtitles)*
> 
> **


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*"The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man"* is a phrase of uncertain origin and without a primary source.

Who were the Rabbis?
When was that cable sent?

In other words Ghada in her attempt to cover for the Arab violence against  Palestinian Jews prior to Zionism, as well as their attempt to cede the land to an Arabian King from Mecca, and total rejection of a Palestinian independent identity, bases her whole book on fictitious and tailored quotes that have been spread by her ilk for the last century.

Is it any wonder that she tries to attack the Jewish state by downplaying the Holocaust and Arab violence? No - t's done to deflect from the core reasons why Arabs have failed to hold all of the middle east for themselves at the expense of other nations in the region, Israel being the only piece of land they've lost to the their rightful heirs.

That's just how Pallywood works - deception, half baked lies and outright antisemitic bigotry.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The New Palestinians!*
> 
> There are the old guard of PLO, Fatah, Hamas, etc. who are in their 6os, 70s, and 80s. They have had few, if any, accomplishments in the last few decades.
> 
> Then there are the new Palestinians who are mostly under 40. Intelligent, articulate, and well educated, with a different view of what Palestine is to be. They have no interest in the established parties. They have made great strides in the Palestinian cause.



Then there're the Israeli young generation that is the leading society in the middle east, which has broken all records for a young state and successful integration, challenging the outdated demographic forecasts and evident decrease trends of birth rates through out the whole Arab world doubled by an increase in secularism. And an evident change of opinion regarding Israel's position in the region both among intelligentsia, political leadership and lower classes of population.

it's a matter of 2 generations, before the scales pass the turning point of no return.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The “tragedy of Pal’istan” is no more tragic than any other location in the Islamist Middle East subjected to the retrogression of Islamist ideology.


----------



## Hollie

The Tragedy of Islamism


----------



## Mindful

How Iran Plans to Take Gaza.


The situation in the Gaza Strip is unlikely to witness any positive changes. Even if Hamas were to be removed from power, the Palestinians would continue to suffer under other radical groups such as Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ).


Even if Hamas were to wake up tomorrow morning and have an about-face, striking a genuine truce with Israel, there will always be other terrorist groups that are prepared to breach the agreement any time they wish.


These are crucial factors that need to be taken into account by any international party that seeks a solution to the catastrophe called Gaza. Alternatively, one might to wish to continue to inhabit some alternate reality in which all be would be well if Israel would only ease restrictions on the Gaza Strip.

If anyone was hoping that removing Hamas from power in the Gaza Strip would improve the situation there and boost the chances of peace between Palestinians and Israel, they are in for a big disappointment. Hamas, which violently seized control over the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2007, is not the only terrorist group in the coastal enclave, home to some two million Palestinians.

In addition to Hamas, these are several other Palestinian terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip.

How Iran Plans to Take Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> The Tragedy of Islamism



Nothing but Uncivilized Savages


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Haidar Eid, a professor of post-colonial and post-modern literature at Al Aqsa University, in Gaza.

*


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorism in the mini-caliphate of Gaza’istan


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Kids Fighting Israel's Occupation *
> 
> **








It's all just an illusion, pf....(the people in your video.....).


this is more like it............





we know what rules there...




...islamic radicals  .... and ... that's it ! 

 no body else...




video ...too long. but that radical girl - kicked and slapped the soldier in the face...sickening.  that's one _*"loose cannon."*_


brainwashing the kids: hey kid: "can you live in peace with the settlers over there" - _'No,_ 

 _we won't live in peace as long as they are on our land.'_





sick bastards....







 the poor kid(s).......


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*  ‘I’m Child of Israeli Occupation’: Ahed Tamimi Pens Emotional Letter in Vogue  *
 
*Ahed Tamimi became “the symbol of occupation” because of her arrest but there are 300 other children in the Israeli prisons whose stories are unknown to the world. *

The young activist from Nabi Saleh village in the occupied West Bank was jailed for eight months for slapping two Israeli occupation soldiers who were harassing her family at their home’s yard. Her action in December last year was recorded and went viral on social media, attracting support from the supporters of Palestinian resistance globally, while also infuriating Israelis some of whom asked for her to be shot and killed.


----------



## Hollie

*Palestinian Child Terrorists Become New Face of Terror Against Israel
*
Palestinian Child Terrorists Become New Face of Terror Against Israel
_





A Palestinian protester throws a molotov cocktail / Getty Images

The Palestinians continue to groom and employ an increasing number of child terrorists to launch strikes on Israel, throwing into further question the ability of the Palestinian government to form a legitimate state, according to a new report on child terrorists and their enablers provided to the Washington Free Beacon.
_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel stealing land.*

The Nassar Family have filed a new petition to the Supreme Court requesting the registration of their land with new GPS coordinates. The petition is against the military authorities and the land registration authorities because they refuse to register the land of the Nassar family and at the same time continue to destroy the trees and property of the family.
After a long legal battle in the Supreme Court the authorities agreed to register the Nassar Family land as private property using new GPS coordinates – effectively eliminating the declaration of the family land as "State Land". In spite of this verdict of the Supreme Court the authorities have been dragging their feet with the process – therefore maintaining the current status of the Nassar Family land as "State Land" until this registration is completed -enabling the authorities to continue to try and claim the Nassar family is trespassing on "State Land" as they have been doing since the destruction of their trees.
The Nassar Family bought 400 dunams of land and built its house on the location were the Tent of Nations exists today around 100 years ago. The family possesses the original purchase documents , maps and their ownership of the land was registered during the time of British Mandate in the early 1920's (something which is very rare in the West Bank as nearly all of the rural lands are unregistered).
In 1991 the Israeli Authorities and within the context of trying to expand the settlement of Neve Daniel declared the great majority of 400 dunams of the Nassar family land as "State Land". They only left the Nassar family home and the adjacent gardens out of this declaration.
The declaration of land as "State Land" is the major legal mechanism by which land is taken from the Palestinians and given to the settlements. According to this mechanism, land which whose total cultivated area is less than 50 % or land which is not registered is declared as "State Land" which is land for "public" use – with the "public" meaning exclusively for Israeli settlers.

Continue @ Tent of Nations / Nassar Farm


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel destroys Palestinian property - Tent of Nations*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel stealing land.*
> 
> The Nassar Family have filed a new petition to the Supreme Court requesting the registration of their land with new GPS coordinates. The petition is against the military authorities and the land registration authorities because they refuse to register the land of the Nassar family and at the same time continue to destroy the trees and property of the family.
> After a long legal battle in the Supreme Court the authorities agreed to register the Nassar Family land as private property using new GPS coordinates – effectively eliminating the declaration of the family land as "State Land". In spite of this verdict of the Supreme Court the authorities have been dragging their feet with the process – therefore maintaining the current status of the Nassar Family land as "State Land" until this registration is completed -enabling the authorities to continue to try and claim the Nassar family is trespassing on "State Land" as they have been doing since the destruction of their trees.
> The Nassar Family bought 400 dunams of land and built its house on the location were the Tent of Nations exists today around 100 years ago. The family possesses the original purchase documents , maps and their ownership of the land was registered during the time of British Mandate in the early 1920's (something which is very rare in the West Bank as nearly all of the rural lands are unregistered).
> In 1991 the Israeli Authorities and within the context of trying to expand the settlement of Neve Daniel declared the great majority of 400 dunams of the Nassar family land as "State Land". They only left the Nassar family home and the adjacent gardens out of this declaration.
> The declaration of land as "State Land" is the major legal mechanism by which land is taken from the Palestinians and given to the settlements. According to this mechanism, land which whose total cultivated area is less than 50 % or land which is not registered is declared as "State Land" which is land for "public" use – with the "public" meaning exclusively for Israeli settlers.
> 
> Continue @ Tent of Nations / Nassar Farm




Isn't this the foreign colonizing family which is NOT labelled "settler" because they happen to be Arab?  While their neighbors are labelled "settlers" because they happen to be Jewish.  Even though both families bought land at the same time?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel stealing land.*
> 
> The Nassar Family have filed a new petition to the Supreme Court requesting the registration of their land with new GPS coordinates. The petition is against the military authorities and the land registration authorities because they refuse to register the land of the Nassar family and at the same time continue to destroy the trees and property of the family.
> After a long legal battle in the Supreme Court the authorities agreed to register the Nassar Family land as private property using new GPS coordinates – effectively eliminating the declaration of the family land as "State Land". In spite of this verdict of the Supreme Court the authorities have been dragging their feet with the process – therefore maintaining the current status of the Nassar Family land as "State Land" until this registration is completed -enabling the authorities to continue to try and claim the Nassar family is trespassing on "State Land" as they have been doing since the destruction of their trees.
> The Nassar Family bought 400 dunams of land and built its house on the location were the Tent of Nations exists today around 100 years ago. The family possesses the original purchase documents , maps and their ownership of the land was registered during the time of British Mandate in the early 1920's (something which is very rare in the West Bank as nearly all of the rural lands are unregistered).
> In 1991 the Israeli Authorities and within the context of trying to expand the settlement of Neve Daniel declared the great majority of 400 dunams of the Nassar family land as "State Land". They only left the Nassar family home and the adjacent gardens out of this declaration.
> The declaration of land as "State Land" is the major legal mechanism by which land is taken from the Palestinians and given to the settlements. According to this mechanism, land which whose total cultivated area is less than 50 % or land which is not registered is declared as "State Land" which is land for "public" use – with the "public" meaning exclusively for Israeli settlers.
> 
> Continue @ Tent of Nations / Nassar Farm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't this the foreign colonizing family which is NOT labelled "settler" because they happen to be Arab?  While their neighbors are labelled "settlers" because they happen to be Jewish.  Even though both families bought land at the same time?
Click to expand...

The Nassar Family bought the land and has the deed.

Which of the Israeli settlers bought land and have deeds?

Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rally Against US Support for Israeli Aggression*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

And the point of these pictures is?


----------



## Mindful

*For Second Time in Three Weeks, Leading UK Papers Ignore Deadly Palestinian Terror Attack*






Kim Levengrond-Yehezkel, 29, of Rosh Hayin; and Ziv Hajbi, 32, of Reshion Lezion.

Once again, leading UK newspapers have deemed Palestinian terror attacks that killed Israelis as “unworthy” of news coverage.

Below are three prominent examples:


For Second Time in Three Weeks, Leading UK Papers Ignore Deadly Palestinian Terror Attack


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi Freed From Israeli Prison (Part 2)*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful

*How Palestinians lie to Europeans.*



In the eyes of Hamas and its supporters, it is fine for Palestinians to throw explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers, but it is completely unacceptable for the soldiers to defend themselves. According to the twisted logic of the Palestinian leaders, it all started when Israel fired back.


Those who sent the Palestinians to clash with the Israeli soldiers along the border with the Gaza Strip are the only ones who bear responsibility for killing more than 150 Palestinians and injuring thousands of others.


The goal the Palestinians have in mind is to see Israel gone. All of it. Mahmoud Abbas believes he can achieve this goal by waging a diplomatic war against Israel in the international community -- one aimed at delegitimizing and demonizing Israel and Jews.


The question, again, remains whether the international community will ever wake up to realize that Palestinian leaders are playing them for fools. The European Parliament delegation that visited Ramallah is a good test case: What message will its members convey back at home: the truth about the ruthless and repressive Palestinian Authority, or the lies that were spoon-fed to them by Abbas and his friends?


How Palestinians Lie to Europeans


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *How Palestinians lie to Europeans.*
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of Hamas and its supporters, it is fine for Palestinians to throw explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers, but it is completely unacceptable for the soldiers to defend themselves. According to the twisted logic of the Palestinian leaders, it all started when Israel fired back.
> 
> 
> Those who sent the Palestinians to clash with the Israeli soldiers along the border with the Gaza Strip are the only ones who bear responsibility for killing more than 150 Palestinians and injuring thousands of others.
> 
> 
> The goal the Palestinians have in mind is to see Israel gone. All of it. Mahmoud Abbas believes he can achieve this goal by waging a diplomatic war against Israel in the international community -- one aimed at delegitimizing and demonizing Israel and Jews.
> 
> 
> The question, again, remains whether the international community will ever wake up to realize that Palestinian leaders are playing them for fools. The European Parliament delegation that visited Ramallah is a good test case: What message will its members convey back at home: the truth about the ruthless and repressive Palestinian Authority, or the lies that were spoon-fed to them by Abbas and his friends?
> 
> 
> How Palestinians Lie to Europeans


Abbas, however, refrained from mentioning to the UN General Assembly that while he was speaking, his security forces were waging a massive crackdown on his critics and opponents in the West Bank.​
That is what the US is paying him to do.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How Palestinians lie to Europeans.*
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of Hamas and its supporters, it is fine for Palestinians to throw explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers, but it is completely unacceptable for the soldiers to defend themselves. According to the twisted logic of the Palestinian leaders, it all started when Israel fired back.
> 
> 
> Those who sent the Palestinians to clash with the Israeli soldiers along the border with the Gaza Strip are the only ones who bear responsibility for killing more than 150 Palestinians and injuring thousands of others.
> 
> 
> The goal the Palestinians have in mind is to see Israel gone. All of it. Mahmoud Abbas believes he can achieve this goal by waging a diplomatic war against Israel in the international community -- one aimed at delegitimizing and demonizing Israel and Jews.
> 
> 
> The question, again, remains whether the international community will ever wake up to realize that Palestinian leaders are playing them for fools. The European Parliament delegation that visited Ramallah is a good test case: What message will its members convey back at home: the truth about the ruthless and repressive Palestinian Authority, or the lies that were spoon-fed to them by Abbas and his friends?
> 
> 
> How Palestinians Lie to Europeans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, however, refrained from mentioning to the UN General Assembly that while he was speaking, his security forces were waging a massive crackdown on his critics and opponents in the West Bank.​
> That is what the US is paying him to do.
Click to expand...


Your conspiracy theories are a hoot.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How Palestinians lie to Europeans.*
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of Hamas and its supporters, it is fine for Palestinians to throw explosive devices and firebombs at soldiers, but it is completely unacceptable for the soldiers to defend themselves. According to the twisted logic of the Palestinian leaders, it all started when Israel fired back.
> 
> 
> Those who sent the Palestinians to clash with the Israeli soldiers along the border with the Gaza Strip are the only ones who bear responsibility for killing more than 150 Palestinians and injuring thousands of others.
> 
> 
> The goal the Palestinians have in mind is to see Israel gone. All of it. Mahmoud Abbas believes he can achieve this goal by waging a diplomatic war against Israel in the international community -- one aimed at delegitimizing and demonizing Israel and Jews.
> 
> 
> The question, again, remains whether the international community will ever wake up to realize that Palestinian leaders are playing them for fools. The European Parliament delegation that visited Ramallah is a good test case: What message will its members convey back at home: the truth about the ruthless and repressive Palestinian Authority, or the lies that were spoon-fed to them by Abbas and his friends?
> 
> 
> How Palestinians Lie to Europeans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas, however, refrained from mentioning to the UN General Assembly that while he was speaking, his security forces were waging a massive crackdown on his critics and opponents in the West Bank.​
> That is what the US is paying him to do.
Click to expand...


Yeah right.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rally Against US Support for Israeli Aggression*





 *"End Israeli Occupation"*





 they can't.......not with stupid vicious palestinian governmental terrorists in charge & living there *+* ....palestinian kid-terrorists and shroud-headed/veiled-face muslim girls getting in on the .......terrorism too.........


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"I decided to go back to the farming methods of my ancestors and opened my own organic farm. Safe organic farming is all about the proper management of water, using compost, and most of all, treating the soil as a living organism.

With my strawberries, I am trying to bring back the old days and underscore the need to alter the farming culture here away from fertilizers. Every farmer should make the decision to organically farm.”

Ayman, farmer
(Beit Lahia, Gaza)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

Employers at the better companies are always for Hitler Youth Camp graduates who can jump through Burning hoops on their way to the gee-had and Jew killing.


----------



## Coyote

member said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rally Against US Support for Israeli Aggression*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"End Israeli Occupation"*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they can't.......not with stupid vicious palestinian governmental terrorists in charge & living there *+* ....palestinian kid-terrorists and *shroud-headed/veiled-face muslim girls* getting in on the .......terrorism too.........
Click to expand...


Palestinian women don’t tend to wear burkas or veils.  Do a bit of regional research before broad brushing them.


palestinian village women - Google Search


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Mods deleting my posts. Not cool. I guess The mods are anti Israel too. Palestine today is a terror state.


----------



## Coyote

Palestinian Women: Runners, Mothers and Breadwinners

...In Summer 2014, Shawqia took a loan from FATEN in order to develop the agriculturally rich land around her home.  With the care and tenderness of a mother, she took me for a tour of her hip-height bean plants, a nursery of herbs peeking through the ground, baby fig and olive trees. Over a cup of the most amazing tea I’ve ever tasted (which I am told, is a due to the well-water stored under the home), she told me how she grows almost everything that her family eats and sells any extra, essentially eliminating the need to go to the mini market.

As she lovingly stroked her budding olive tree, she told me how her two sons (who married two sisters!), helped her to plant the fields.  Now that everything is in bloom, she is very content spending her days tending her land alone.   Hands don’t lie: This is a woman who is no stranger to hard work.



 

KIVA is an NGO microloan program that is quite successful.  They loan to women primarily because women are more likely to invest it into enterprises to help their families.


----------



## Coyote

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Mods deleting my posts. Not cool. I guess The mods are anti Israel too. Palestine today is a terror state.



*If you have an issue PM us.  Do not discuss moderation in the thread and do not troll the thread.  The topic is Palestinians not generic anti-Muslim cartoons.  *


----------



## Coyote

An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today


POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.

*Aya*

I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].

I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.

I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.



 

*Meital*

My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.

I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.

I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.

I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.  

My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.






*Wedad*

I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.

I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.

The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.

I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.

The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].






*Rachel*

I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.

My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.

We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.

I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.

I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.

In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.






Home


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Making ready for Jew killing at the Hamas run version of the Hitler Youth Camps.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?

Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today
> 
> 
> POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.
> 
> *Aya*
> 
> I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].
> 
> I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.
> 
> I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 222078
> 
> *Meital*
> 
> My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.
> 
> I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.
> 
> I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.
> 
> My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.
> 
> View attachment 222080
> 
> 
> *Wedad*
> 
> I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.
> 
> I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.
> 
> The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.
> 
> I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.
> 
> The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].
> 
> View attachment 222082
> 
> 
> *Rachel*
> 
> I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.
> 
> We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.
> 
> I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.
> 
> I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.
> 
> In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.
> 
> View attachment 222083



The funny thing is that all women in Your post are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian. Such initiatives are possible only in, and are a function of the Israeli society.

On the other hand THIS mental disturbance, certainly does reflect the Palestinian Caliphate  today:


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today
> 
> 
> POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.
> 
> *Aya*
> 
> I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].
> 
> I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.
> 
> I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 222078
> 
> *Meital*
> 
> My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.
> 
> I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.
> 
> I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.
> 
> My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.
> 
> View attachment 222080
> 
> 
> *Wedad*
> 
> I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.
> 
> I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.
> 
> The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.
> 
> I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.
> 
> The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].
> 
> View attachment 222082
> 
> 
> *Rachel*
> 
> I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.
> 
> We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.
> 
> I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.
> 
> I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.
> 
> In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.
> 
> View attachment 222083
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that all women in Your post are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian. Such initiatives are possible only in, and are a function of the Israeli society.
> 
> On the other hand THIS mental disturbance, certainly does reflect the Palestinian Caliphate  today:
Click to expand...


I think you are as selective as the anti Israel crowd in choosing only negative portrayals.



rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today
> 
> 
> POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.
> 
> *Aya*
> 
> I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].
> 
> I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.
> 
> I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 222078
> 
> *Meital*
> 
> My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.
> 
> I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.
> 
> I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.
> 
> My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.
> 
> View attachment 222080
> 
> 
> *Wedad*
> 
> I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.
> 
> I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.
> 
> The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.
> 
> I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.
> 
> The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].
> 
> View attachment 222082
> 
> 
> *Rachel*
> 
> I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.
> 
> We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.
> 
> I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.
> 
> I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.
> 
> In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.
> 
> View attachment 222083
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that all women in Your post are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian. Such initiatives are possible only in, and are a function of the Israeli society.
> 
> On the other hand THIS mental disturbance, certainly does reflect the Palestinian Caliphate  today:
Click to expand...


Two are Israeli Jews.  Two identify as Palestinian.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.

What is PiP?
*WHAT IS PIP?*
*Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world. 

*HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*

All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
*Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
Click to expand...

The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today
> 
> 
> POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.
> 
> *Aya*
> 
> I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].
> 
> I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.
> 
> I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 222078
> 
> *Meital*
> 
> My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.
> 
> I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.
> 
> I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.
> 
> My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.
> 
> View attachment 222080
> 
> 
> *Wedad*
> 
> I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.
> 
> I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.
> 
> The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.
> 
> I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.
> 
> The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].
> 
> View attachment 222082
> 
> 
> *Rachel*
> 
> I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.
> 
> We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.
> 
> I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.
> 
> I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.
> 
> In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.
> 
> View attachment 222083
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that all women in Your post are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian. Such initiatives are possible only in, and are a function of the Israeli society.
> 
> On the other hand THIS mental disturbance, certainly does reflect the Palestinian Caliphate  today:
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are as selective as the anti Israel crowd in choosing only negative portrayals.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting site....certainly reflects Palestine today
> 
> 
> POLITICAL IS PERSONAL IS AN INITIATIVE WHICH CONDUCTS IN-DEPTH INTERVIEWS WITH ISRAELI JEWISH AND PALESTINIAN WOMEN IN WHICH THEY SAFELY AND FREELY SHARE HOW THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY THE REALITIES OF THIS CONFLICT.
> 
> *Aya*
> 
> I am 28 years old, and I'm from _Lyd _[Lod in Hebrew, Lyd in Arabic, mixed Jewish-Arab city 15km southeast from Tel Aviv].
> 
> I am married and I have a daughter. I’ve been a feminist and political activist for ten years.
> 
> I’m very proud of my Palestinian identity. I talk about it all the time.
> 
> View attachment 222078
> 
> *Meital*
> 
> My name is Meital Marcel. These are the two names that I go by.
> 
> I am 39 years old, single, and I live in Tel Aviv.
> 
> I studied at Tel Aviv University. My bachelor’s degree is in cinema and philosophy, and my master’s degree is in literature.
> 
> I work in writing. I publish short stories, only for a small circle of people, but I’m in a development phase, and now one of my short stories has been chosen to be featured in the university’s magazine. The first magazine issue hasn’t come out yet, but they are working on it now.
> 
> My biggest dream, however, is to publish a story through a well-known publisher that will give my writing a spring board.
> 
> View attachment 222080
> 
> 
> *Wedad*
> 
> I’m Wedad Zaid Alkilany, from Ara, in Wadi Ara.
> 
> I’m 29 years old, mother to two wonderful daughters, and a student in my last year of a Bachelor’s degree in psychology. Parallel to this, I also study group training, and this year I have spent a lot of time volunteering for the women’s organization Women Wage Peace.
> 
> The course in group training is basically a course not related to my degree. It’s something that you study independently with some intensive months of studying, and at the end of the course you receive a diploma.
> 
> I really like the course on group training, because I have previously got the opportunity to guide groups, but I wanted to gain professional skills, in order to learn how to do it really well. In addition to this, I am considering working within this field in the future.
> 
> The reason why I have chosen to study psychology and group guidance is that, first of all, I don’t have stage fright, and second of all I am a person, who likes to guide groups of people and to talk and to discuss, so I think all of this is very relevant [for me].
> 
> View attachment 222082
> 
> 
> *Rachel*
> 
> I was born in Herzliya, and when I was a baby we moved to Kfar Saba. I've lived here ever since, but next year we are moving to Tzur Moshe, a _moshav _[Israeli village], which is a big deal. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> My mother-in-law lives there. She has an olive plantation, and has lived there for 20 years. She is a very special woman. She is a widow and lives there alone, tending to the olive trees all by herself. Most people wouldn't do what she does.
> 
> We decided to move there, not to help her, as [Rachel and her husband] are two very busy people. We're moving there to give our children the quality of life that a _moshav _can offer.
> 
> I'll miss Kfar Saba a lot, because I come from a big family. My mother lives here, my sister lives close-by, and my brothers as well. Because of my relationship with them, our decision to move took many years. But sometimes it's difficult in Kfar Saba because we have five children. It's very loud and intense, and we are looking forward to silence from the _moshav _environment.
> 
> I don't think it will be calmer [in the _moshav_], because of all the work, but it will be a more secure environment, and lately we have been wanting to feel more secure.
> 
> In town there is a closer proximity to terror attacks. My children know that I work with Arab women and Palestinians all the time, so of course I teach my children that we don't need to fear Arabs. We need to get over the fears, because the number of terrorists is small. But one can't ignore the everyday news, including the stabbings that mostly take place in towns. The _moshav_ will hopefully be a more hermetic, quiet, and secure place - not only in the safety aspect but in many other ways too.
> 
> View attachment 222083
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that all women in Your post are Israeli citizens, not Palestinian. Such initiatives are possible only in, and are a function of the Israeli society.
> 
> On the other hand THIS mental disturbance, certainly does reflect the Palestinian Caliphate  today:
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two are Israeli Jews.  Two identify as Palestinian.
Click to expand...


None of them are citizens of Palestine, all Israelis.
You have yet to bring up any equivalent Palestinian initiative just the ones from  Israelis, we both know why.

There's no equivalence between Israel and the Palestinian Caliphates.
Only one side is open for a 2-way dialogue.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
Click to expand...

I thought Pal'istan was a "country".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
Click to expand...

That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
Click to expand...


Of course they don't, there's already an Arab state on 78% of the Palestinian land with Arab majority. They just have to let Jews have what is left.

Problem solved.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
Click to expand...


What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*



Which side initiated this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?
Click to expand...

I don't know. Maybe the state of Israel and the state of Palestine in a country called The Holy Land.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
Click to expand...


This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.

Why don't You give 1 of the 52 states to the Indians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Maybe the state of Israel and the state of Palestine in a country called The Holy Land.
Click to expand...


How is that different from the demand to give a part of Spain to the Caliphate?
Using Your demented logic Spaniards would be happy...


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Maybe the state of Israel and the state of Palestine in a country called The Holy Land.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Maybe the state of Israel and the state of Palestine in a country called The Holy Land.
Click to expand...

Arabs-Moslems within the two, competing welfare fraud enclaves are far more concerned with tearing down Israel than they are with building a functioning state. The two-state solution (Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan), is just not going to happen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
Click to expand...

The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.

Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia






Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
Click to expand...

Israel is exactly a tiny reservation in a sea of 50+ Muslim states.
Let me know when the 1st Jew is allowed in either the PLO, Hamas, Hizballah, Assad or the Jordanian govt...


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
Click to expand...

Indigenous saving our food.

*TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*


*A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


There are seeds unique to the geographic area of Palestine?

Indigenous palestinian seeds?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> 
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are seeds unique to the geographic area of Palestine?
> 
> Indigenous palestinian seeds?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You don't know jack about agriculture.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are seeds unique to the geographic area of Palestine?
> 
> Indigenous palestinian seeds?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know jack about agriculture.
Click to expand...


Deflection. Your usual retreat.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
Click to expand...


What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?


----------



## Coyote

The Team

*Wajiha Al Abyad, *Gaza Coordinator & Writer






Wajiha is a Palestinian woman *who was born and still live in the Gaza Strip*. She is descended from a refugee family in Jaffa. In 2015, she received her BA degree in English and French Literature which essentially paved the way for her writing career. Since then, she developed a profound passion in writing. She started off as a blogger for WeAreNotNumebrs, CivilArab, and currently works as a freelance writer publishing regularly on the Medium. Her background in working as a Project Coordinator within a local Non-Governmental Organization dedicated for *advocating Women’s Rights has given her a broad base from which to approach gender issues in Gaza.* Therefore, in her writings, she addresses women’s issues through featured stories. She especially enjoys reading about psychology and communicating with people from diverse cultures.


----------



## Coyote

_*ASIL*_
_*Her Story #3 Asil

Always Just An Arab*_

During the “tzfirah” [siren] for Yom Hazikaron [Memorial Day] today, I saw a woman holding her daughter, who was scared. When the “tzfirah” stopped, I heard the mother explaining to the child, what it was about. She told her that it was to commemorate all the killings of Jews that have been carried out by Arabs, “the ones who seek to kill us,” in other words, “our enemy”.

I am 25 years old, and what I have learned up to now is that no matter what I do in this country I will always be the "Arab." If someone steals something, the finger will still be pointed at me, because I am the "Arab." I can go to the police, but it won't matter. It will always be my fault.

I am not seeking to be an Israeli. I am a Palestinian living in Israel. I just don’t want to be a second-class citizen. I want to be treated like the nice person that I am. I also have feelings.


----------



## Coyote

*MANAL*
Her Story #12 Manal

......
_*Male Authority*_

I am a liberal woman, but I don’t even represent 2% of the women in Gaza. I think it’s a natural development after eight years of a blockade. It has resulted in a furthering of narrow-minded mentality here.

There is unemployment and poverty, and education cannot be financed. When men can’t find work, the oppression creates a vicious cycle, which makes the men dominate even more and mistreat their wives and daughters.

Additionally, women aren’t able to see the outside, and they become provincial in their thinking too. As daughters and sisters, women try to escape their brother’s and father’s authority by finding a husband, but the husband is no different than their father and brother.

_*My Jewish Friends*_

I have a lot of Jewish friends, and I like them for the human beings that they are. I try not to talk about politics with them, and instead I prefer to look at them from their human side. As long as there is respect.

I was born in 1969, and I used to go to Ashkelon with my mother to have coffee. I would go to Tel Aviv, where I bought everything that I needed for my wedding.

Today, because I have a permit, I always go to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. I often take the train from Ashkelon to Tel Aviv. I like to talk to people there, and when they find out that I am from Gaza, they are amazed. That is how I know that we have a lot in common, and that is why I think that the leaders are our problem.

I believe that Israelis have the right to exist, and so do we. We need two states, and I know that even if I were to pray for Israel to vanish, it won’t happen, and we need to be on equal footing.

_*Healing*_

We need to get rid of the hatred. We’ve tried wars and many other methods. I’m doing my best because I’m the kind of person who believes that you can heal pain with love. It’s time to try different kinds of weapons, to convey peace and love. We need to express this to our leaders, and Israelis need to do the same to their leaders.

I always believe in better times. I’m very optimistic. Sometimes things go up, sometimes they go down. We must see the end of the tunnel. I think it’s about time to heal people from the inside


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are seeds unique to the geographic area of Palestine?
> 
> Indigenous palestinian seeds?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't know jack about agriculture.
Click to expand...




 *"You don't know jack about agriculture.."*


palestinian terrorists...........

 at least people are up-to-date about them......




I'm not making fun of them.  All terrorists and terrorists that recruit kids.....there _IS_ something wrong with them....
[there's a ....void, 

  somethings missing]


----------



## Coyote

*Palestinian women join West Bank anti-riot police*





Palestinian women join West Bank anti-riot police


----------



## Coyote

Kind of interesting...and surprising.  Not what I would have expected.


Photo essay spotlights Palestinian women in physics

In November, a photographer and I set out to capture the lives of seven women studying and working in physics in Palestine.

The interest arose from my work over the last few years in Palestine and elsewhere in the Arab world, where I have organized particle physics workshops and seminars. Each time, I was joyfully surprised to be standing in front of an audience full of women.

I*t is a known phenomenon in the Arab world that the number of women studying physics surpasses that of men, and in Palestine, I saw this most pronounced*. However, the number dramatically drops at the faculty level. I wanted to know why there was this reverse gender gap for students, what issues affected women wanting to pursue a career in physics, and how these compared to the issues in the West.






We traveled a lot during the project, to places such as Hebron, Nablus, Bethlehem, and Ramallah, and even into Jordan. Often, we were warmly invited into the homes of the women. We met their families and discussed the various issues in their lives and the role of women, over deliciously cooked Palestinian cuisine, all the time learning new words and phrases in Arabic. There was always a lot of love and support from their families when discussing their career aspirations. Some of the challenges the women face were not easy, both societal and political, but the women's strength and hopes for the future are inspirational, lending to an increasing number of women embarking on careers in physics.

One of the key facts I learned as to why many women study physics in Palestine is there is not the stigma that physics is seen as being a masculine subject, which is prevalent in the west.A student named Suhad talked about this issue with us over coffee one morning in the department:

I don't know why you say physics is only for men, because here in our university in the science as a whole, many students are women, not men. For example in undergraduate we were 18 girls and only three boys. So with respect to me, it is not strange to be a female scientist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi - Sydney BDS Conference 2017*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians*

On September 27, Palestinian Authority President and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Mahmoud Abbas addressed the U.N. General Assembly for the 14th time. Among Palestinians, expectations had been high that Abbas’ speech at the United Nations would be “historic,” and that he would articulate a new strategic path forward for Palestinians in the wake of the Trump administration’s near total adoption of Israel’s positions, namely moving the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, cutting all funding to UNRWA, the U.N. agency responsible for the well-being of Palestinian refugees, and closing the PLO diplomatic mission in the United States.

Yet, once again, Abbas failed to deliver. His “historic” speech turned out to be more of the same: a call for the world to salvage a two-state solution that died years ago, systematically destroyed by Israel as a result of its relentless construction on Palestinian land of settlements deemed illegal by the United Nations.

*Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians | Reuters*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians*
> 
> On September 27, Palestinian Authority President and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Mahmoud Abbas addressed the U.N. General Assembly for the 14th time. Among Palestinians, expectations had been high that Abbas’ speech at the United Nations would be “historic,” and that he would articulate a new strategic path forward for Palestinians in the wake of the Trump administration’s near total adoption of Israel’s positions, namely moving the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, cutting all funding to UNRWA, the U.N. agency responsible for the well-being of Palestinian refugees, and closing the PLO diplomatic mission in the United States.
> 
> Yet, once again, Abbas failed to deliver. His “historic” speech turned out to be more of the same: a call for the world to salvage a two-state solution that died years ago, systematically destroyed by Israel as a result of its relentless construction on Palestinian land of settlements deemed illegal by the United Nations.
> 
> *Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians | Reuters*



From the article:

_it is past time for bold moves by Abbas: to make it clear that our rights are not negotiable; to promote support for the growing Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement; to push to hold Israel accountable; and to make it clear that Palestinians will press for equality._
_
_
Really?  THAT is the "bold move"?  Meaningless drivel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians*
> 
> On September 27, Palestinian Authority President and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Mahmoud Abbas addressed the U.N. General Assembly for the 14th time. Among Palestinians, expectations had been high that Abbas’ speech at the United Nations would be “historic,” and that he would articulate a new strategic path forward for Palestinians in the wake of the Trump administration’s near total adoption of Israel’s positions, namely moving the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, cutting all funding to UNRWA, the U.N. agency responsible for the well-being of Palestinian refugees, and closing the PLO diplomatic mission in the United States.
> 
> Yet, once again, Abbas failed to deliver. His “historic” speech turned out to be more of the same: a call for the world to salvage a two-state solution that died years ago, systematically destroyed by Israel as a result of its relentless construction on Palestinian land of settlements deemed illegal by the United Nations.
> 
> *Commentary: Abbas misses a chance to help Palestinians | Reuters*



I wouldn't be too hard on Mahmoud. He's just following his inner Islam. With the Great Satan and others turning off the welfare fraud spigot, he has chosen to reduce what little was spent on infrastructure and civil sevices and to make payments to psychopathic gee-had killers a priority.

The Arab-Moslem psyche is a dark and dangerous place.


----------



## Coyote

Participants at the launch of the first Palestinian community-based Youth Sports League in Jericho. The project is funded by the Government of Japan and implemented by UNDP in partnership with the Ministry of Education and Higher Education, Al-Quds University, and the Palestinian Olympic Committee.
© UNDP/PAPP – Nadine Abu Rmeileh

*Palestinian Youth: Carrying the Potential for Future Growth

http://thisweekinpalestine.com/palestinian-youth-carrying-potential-future-growth/*


----------



## Coyote

Pretty innovative 

Rooftop farms in Gaza provide a lifeline to the community

Meeting even basic needs can be a challenge for the nearly 2 million people that live in Gaza. An Israeli blockade inhibits international trade and prevents vital supplies from reaching the 141 square mile territory, so the Palestinians living there rely on resilience and innovation to survive with the resources they have. Squeezed out of arable land, many Gaza residents are farming upwards, on the rooftops of the dense urban Mediterranean territory.


----------



## Coyote

Palestinian Youth Orchestra...make music not bombs...music as resistance...

Palestinian orchestra uses 'music as resistance'


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did that girl at the end just confirm that _"Palestinian nationalism"_ is separate from statehood?
> 
> Israelis have been saying this for the last 5 decades - You guys have no interest in an independent state, never did. I guess we just had to speak much S-L-O-W-E-R when addressing You geniuses...
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What country should the islamic terrorist "state" of gaza become a part of?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. Maybe the state of Israel and the state of Palestine in a country called The Holy Land.
Click to expand...






aren't you sick of pretending already ? isn't it....stressful ?

- Festival goers
- Theatre Group People
- women walking around not looking like grim reapers
- Etc, pretend normalcy [and that really weird video clip you posted where that kid/teen? slapped that soldier in the face? was that for real ?  it was weird to say the least.... [that she wasn't tackled to the ground and hauled off to ...jail].


so, what about the terrorists and that stupid soldier-slapping kid?  they're too cro-magnum-like to run anything except, well you know, _[yes, how to run a terrorist ring - hey, they're *world known*!!_]....

_...ain't_ it too bad your prancing friends aren't getting anywhere at all in the "state/country" dept because of their 

 _ *"dopey leaders"*_ - isn't that what you called them ? .....forget the treaty of 1904 and armisticeses and declarations....and your...videos.....

 ....too bad for them......there's always a problem where mad dog terrorists live.....don't the theatre group people know that ?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*

Nadia Hijab, Executive Director of Al-Shabaka, with Zena Agha and Yara Hawari, Policy Fellows of Al Shabaka

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Summer Camp for the New Hitler Youth


----------



## Hollie

Reframing the Narrative for Islamic Terrorist Rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone*

But that does not stop some young people from dreaming that they can turn this strip into the Arab world's Silicon Valley, or at least an outsourcing hub. Arabic is one of the fastest growing languages on the internet.
*



*
Shams Abu Hassanein did workshops on freelancing at Gaza Sky Geeks and now makes a living from infographics. She designs flyers, brochures and social media posts in English and Arabic.

*Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Anti-Zionist activists and Palestinians meet face-to-face at Gaza fence*

**


----------



## Coyote

How an unlikely alliance of Jewish settlers and Palestinian activists are trying to bring peace to Israel

Ali Abu Awwad, a tall Palestinian with thick curly hair, who once spent four years in an Israeli prison, talks intensely with Shaul Judelman— a Seattle-born Orthodox Jew who now lives in a nearby settlement. Along with Hanan Schlesinger, an Orthodox rabbi from another neighbouring Jewish settlement, Abu Awwad and Judelman are the co-directors of Roots, an organization dedicated to teaching nonviolence. The friendship of these natural-born enemies— in one of Israel's deadliest conflict zones— challenges the usual assumptions about Palestinian-Israeli relations. 

"Don't be pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli," Abu Awwad says. "Be pro-solution."


----------



## Hollie

Israel responds to Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"The Untold Truths of Gaza" With Linda Sarsour Hosted by Mysonne*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"My Voice Sought the Wind" with Author Susan Abulhawa*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Coyote

*Palestinian High-tech Workers Plugging Shortage of Israeli Tech Staff*

'For the price of one Israeli engineer, an [Israeli] company can hire three Palestinians in the West Bank, and they have very high motivation'or the price of one Israeli engineer, an [Israeli] company can hire three Palestinians in the West Bank, and they have very high motivation'

Dudu Slama, an executive at Mellanox Technologies, told last week’s Startup Neighbor’s conference in Tel Aviv sponsored by TheMarker that collaboration between Palestinian and Israeli high-tech engineers is one of the keys to successful cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians more generally.

Prior to the conference, however, Palestinians opposed to normalization of ties with Israel lobbied through social media to persuade Palestinians not to attend the conference. Palestinians who did attend said their primary interest was looking after the well-being of hundreds of workers in the high-tech sector in the Palestinian Authority who earn a living working for Israeli tech firms.

At a time when Israeli high-tech companies are outsourcing their work to countries such as Ukraine and India, the Palestinian Authority, where about 3,000 students a year graduate from computer science and engineering programs, provides a workforce that can be hired for less than is generally paid in Israel. There are several Palestinian manpower firms operating in Palestinian West Bank cities such as Ramallah, Nablus, Hebron and the new planned community of Rawabi that provide high-tech placement services.

“For the price of one Israeli engineer, an [Israeli] company can hire three Palestinians in the West Bank, and they have very high motivation,” Slama said. Mellanox itself, which is based in Yokne’am, southeast of Haifa, employs more than 100 Palestinians, including 20 engineers who work in the Gaza Strip. The other 80 employees are based in Rawabi.



Palestinian high-tech workers plugging shortage of Israeli tech staff


----------



## Coyote

Had no idea about the high tech sector developing in Gaza...interesting stuff, flacaltenn isn’t this some of what you were talking about?  This is from 2015.  Some how this Jory of news just gets ignored.

*Https://www.voanews.com/a/ap-in-war-torn-gaza-tiny-high-tech-sector-emerges/3093096.html*

*In War-torn Gaza, Tiny High-tech Sector Emerges*

As a student graduating from computer college two years ago, Mohammed Qudih was dreading the “painful” unemployment in the Gaza Strip - a war-battered territory where nearly half the population is without work.

Today, the 25-year-old engineer boasts about his company, its 20 full-time staff and the final check he is issuing to cover the $40,000 spent on designing and furnishing the office.

The firm, called Haweya for Information Technology, specializes in branding for new or restructuring businesses. Its name in Arabic means “identity.”

“I was shocked by the painful work situation in Gaza; there were no jobs and getting a job is very, very difficult. That's where the idea came from,” Qudih said, sitting behind a white laptop on his dark wooden desk.

It is a rare success story in Gaza, whose economy has been battered by an Israeli and Egyptian blockade and a 50-day war between Israel and the territory's Hamas rulers last year. Israel considers Hamas, an Islamic militant group committed to its destruction, to be a terrorist organization.


----------



## Coyote

This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.


He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.

Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*

“He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.

I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.

Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.

Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.


----------



## flacaltenn

Coyote said:


> 'For the price of one Israeli engineer, an [Israeli] company can hire three Palestinians in the West Bank, and they have very high motivation'or the price of one Israeli engineer, an [Israeli] company can hire three Palestinians in the West Bank, and they have very high motivation'



Like the old Jewish comedy routines.
"Don't buy it there. Uncle Mordechai can get it for you wholesale. Normally $22 a pair. But for YOU -- only $19.95"... 

Seriously, money SPENDS better in the West Bank. Cost of living is way lower. So even if these engineers are making 1/2 wages -- they are gonna live JUST AS GOOD as their Israeli counterparts. It's like me charging my Cali clients "California rates" -- even tho I don't need that to live in Tennessee.


----------



## flacaltenn

Coyote said:


> The other 80 employees are based in Rawabi.



And there it is. That beautiful NEW planned Pali city I've been pitching for --- couldn't happen without sharing an economy with Israel.  Latest news is that only about 40% of Palis and Israelis support a 2 state solution. PART of that is because of the economic connections like this one where wages made in Israel are a LARGE part of the West Bank GDP..

It just has to be FAIRER trade. But that's an easier problem than trying to solve the whole Mid East peace problem.

90% of Pali sympathizers don't BEGIN to understand the love/hate relationship that's going on here. Think these folks are just helpless victims. They are NOT. In fact, Palestinians are extremely motivated and innovative. And they by and large are not doing badly at all in the West Bank --- EVEN WITH the security walls and hardships.

They would be totally capable of managing their own CITIES and 'burbs", but not so hot on the idea of a "unity national govt" at all. *And there is the clue to ending this awful thing.. .
*
(submitted the Palestine Trade Zone paper to Foreign Affairs magazine this past week, got a GOOD feeling about getting it published there)


----------



## flacaltenn

Coyote said:


> This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.
> 
> 
> He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.
> 
> Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*
> 
> “He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.
> 
> I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.
> 
> Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.
> 
> Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.



All they need is for Hamas to stop executing people in the streets and using them as human shields. Would be one of the better places to live in the Arab world --- with sane leadership.


----------



## Coyote

flacaltenn said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other 80 employees are based in Rawabi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there it is. That beautiful NEW planned Pali city I've been pitching for --- couldn't happen without sharing an economy with Israel.  Latest news is that only about 40% of Palis and Israelis support a 2 state solution. PART of that is because of the economic connections like this one where wages made in Israel are a LARGE part of the West Bank GDP..
> 
> It just has to be FAIRER trade. But that's an easier problem than trying to solve the whole Mid East peace problem.
> 
> *90% of Pali sympathizers don't BEGIN to understand the love/hate relationship that's going on here.* Think these folks are just helpless victims. They are NOT. In fact, Palestinians are extremely motivated and innovative. And they by and large are not doing badly at all in the West Bank --- EVEN WITH the security walls and hardships.
> 
> They would be totally capable of managing their own CITIES and 'burbs", but not so hot on the idea of a "unity national govt" at all. *And there is the clue to ending this awful thing.. .
> *
> (submitted the Palestine Trade Zone paper to Foreign Affairs magazine this past week, got a GOOD feeling about getting it published there)
Click to expand...


I would add that 90% of the pro Israel doesn’t either.  The prevailing narrative from that side is that the Palestinians are just a bunch of murdering regressive thugs and parasites.


----------



## Coyote

Here is another interesting one...surprising too.

*World Bank reports high rate of Palestinian women leading startups*
World Bank reports high rate of Palestinian women leading startups

Palestinian women are participating at relatively high rates in leading roles at technology startups in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a World Bank report published on Wednesday found.

*Twenty-three percent *of Palestinians who founded tech companies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip are women, according to the report.

In comparison, 19 percent, 12%, and 10% of startup founders are women in Beirut, New York City, and Cairo, respectively, the report said.


----------



## Coyote

What is it with Palestinian women entrepreneurs?  

Here is another with an innovative idea to solve a chronic problem in Gaza...lack of electricity, Hamas’ restrictions on cooperative endeavors with Israel, and the challenge of getting things through the unpredictable opening and closing of border crossings.  The article goes on to describe the convoluted and often politically motivated process that is trade, particularly agricultural between Gaza and Israel.

A Palestinian woman's fight to bring electricity into Gaza defies Israeli moves against border crossings

Majid al-Mashharawi, 24, grew up in the Gaza Strip in a life of intifada, closure and blockade. One particularly painful event happened when she was 13 – she saw a man about to throw a bomb out a window, but the bomb blew up in his hands. Despite the harsh reality, she went on to study engineering at the Islamic University of Gaza, after which she decided to become an entrepreneur.

A year ago Mashharawi and partners launched their SunBox project — an inexpensive and lightweight solar-powered system that can provide energy to things like small refrigerators, laptops and smartphones. She invested a lot of time and thought into the project and traveled to Japan to meet with experts. She installed the system for free in a few homes in Gaza and is now raising money to enable subsidized sales of the device; this would decrease the price in the Strip to $250 from $350.


----------



## Hollie

In other news, it seems the UN gave Abbas a pass on his usual diatribes drenched in Jew hating.

*
UN mistranslation concealed Abbas'
glorification of terrorists and PA's pay for slay policy* 

*UN mistranslation concealed Abbas' glorification of terrorists and PA's pay for slay policy   - PMW Bulletins

Abbas' words: 
"I pay tribute to our pure Martyrs and heroic prisoners... 
whom it is forbidden to pay"
UN mistranslation: 
"I pay tribute to all freedom loving countries and peoples 
and our martyrs"*

*Was it done intentionally?*


By Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas during his recent speech at the UN General Assembly spoke of the "pure Martyrs" and "heroic prisoners" - "who [Israel says] it is forbidden to pay." The UN's simultaneous translator ignored Abbas' blatant glorification of terror and defense of paying salaries to terrorists by changing his words with a mistranslation! Compare the texts:








​


----------



## Coyote

If there is going to be peace it will be through the women.  Palestinian women are known for their distinctive embroidery....

Two Neighbors Brings Together Palestinian Embroiderers and Israeli Seamstresses

It’s no surprise what happens when a wall is built between neighbors. As the cement is poured, as the soldiers patrol by foot, as the barrier blocks a whole people from view, any semblance of shared humanity quickly erodes. The people on the other side are lumped into an opposing and unrecognizable mass of threat, and they become impossible to empathize with and easy to denounce. But coming out of that kind of toxic environment is what makes Two Neighbors, a joint Israeli-Palestinian fashion initiative, so unexpected. The brand offers a model for how fashion can be used as a force for good in a complex, political landscape.

Two Neighbors pairs Israeli designers and seamstresses with traditional Palestinian embroiderers to create stunning contemporary designs. Every garment is a transgression — passing over that physical barrier and through both Israeli and Palestinian hands. Two Neighbors has a workshop in south Tel Aviv and coordinators in Jerusalem and the West Bank. The company is a rare instance of cooperation in an increasingly segregated setting, and it offers a literal interweaving of the people who share disputed land. The tagline is "Peace through the eye of a needle,” and through the simple act of engagement, the brand speaks of “waging our own peace process.”


----------



## Hollie

Gee whiz. Dr. Seuss got nothin' on these folks.


*New Series Of Fatah Booklets For Children Glorifies Terrorists Such As Abu Jihad, Dalal Al-Mughrabi *

New Series Of Fatah Booklets For Children Glorifies Terrorists Such As Abu Jihad, Dalal Al-Mughrabi

Fatah's Ideological Indoctrination Commission in Gaza has announced the publication of a new series of booklets for children titled "Stories of the Homeland," which glorify Fatah's armed struggle against Israel in the period before the signing of the Oslo Accords. Among the figures featured in the booklets are senior Fatah commanders such as Abu Jihad, who was head of Fatah's military arm and Yasser Arafat's deputy, and was responsible for multiple terrorist attacks in the 1970s and 1980s in which dozens of Israeli civilians were killed, and Dalal Al-Mughrabi, deputy commander of the 1978 Coast Road attack, in which 35 Israelis were killed and 71 were wounded.[1]

Speaking with the e-daily Dunya Al-Watan, Dr. Hussam Abu 'Ajwa, Ideological Indoctrination Commissioner for the West Gaza district, who initiated and oversaw the publication of the series, stated that "this initiative, the first of its kind, uses stories to document the history of the Palestinian people and of the Fatah movement, the largest faction in the PLO." He added that stories are an important part of the Palestinian national heritage, "which has managed to place the Palestinians on the political map by perpetuating the memory of their numerous acts of bravery and sacrifice, as a counterweight to the false Zionist narrative that is trying to eliminate and erase the Palestinian identity and essence."[2]


----------



## Coyote

First Palestinian animal welfare organisation aims to “cut the cycle of violence”


*First Palestinian animal welfare organisation aims to “cut the cycle of violence”*


*Ramallah* - The idea for the Palestine Animal League (PAL), the only locally-run animal welfare organisation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, founded in 2011, was first conceived when Ahmad Safi was working on a children’s summer camp. Ahmad, PAL's founder and executive director, saw a child sitting alone and throwing stones at a cat. He approached the boy and questioned his actions. 

The boy told him that during the night, Israeli soldiers had entered his house, beaten and abducted his brother. At this moment, Ahmad saw in the boy a younger version of himself, and realised that it constitutes an important and ubiquitous problem in Palestine. 

“I started thinking about how this happens. We [Palestinians] normalise violence. This is how we survive here. If you are frustrated or abused, it is normal. You have to deal with it,” Ahmad said. 

In the hierarchy of violence, Ahmad believes it is often the animals that bear the brunt, as the weaker beings on which even children can vent their frustration and aggression. Ahmad thus began working with children in Jalazone refugee camp on how to deal with day-to-day life under occupation, anger management and animal welfare. 

“We tried to cut the cycle of violence, to teach children how to be responsible for themselves and for weaker members of society,” he said. 

“Palestine is everything, not only the human beings. Palestine is the earth, the trees, the animals,” Ahmad added. Together with his friend and co-founder, Sameh Arekat, he tried to promote these values, as well as teaching the children that being kind is not a sign of weakness, while hurting animals is not a symbol of strength, “because this is the culture that we grow up with”.


----------



## Coyote

Skateboarding camp teaches Palestinian kids to "fly" beyond walls

QALQILYA, West Bank — Residents in this Palestinian city never see the sunset; Israel's imposing security wall blocks the view towards the west, and much else. Now, a skateboarding summer camp in Qalqilya is helping kids to see a new horizon.

“When you get on the skateboard, you don’t think about all the problems you have. All you’re focused on is that you have to stay on the board and not fall,” said Abdullah Milhem, a 17-year-old from Qalqilya who first picked up a skateboard five years ago.

He says his hobby has changed his life and gave him a positive outlet for his energy instead of hanging out on the streets or getting involved in drugs or violence.


----------



## Hollie

There's a "cycle of violence"?

Who knew?


*Hamas sends young children to border, arrested Gazan tells IDF*
05/16/2018

Hamas sends young children to border, arrested Gazan tells IDF




_Palestinians protestors gather on Gaza's border with Israel as sporadic clashes flare with Israeli forces on May 15, 2018 _
*MAHMUD HAMS (AFP)
'Hamas organizes these riots so that the people won’t revolt', the Gazan said*
A Palestinian man who had been arrested by the Israeli security forces attempting to infiltrate the Gaza border revealed during an interrogation, that Hamas urged women and young children to go to the frontline during the recent succession of protests.

“They [Hamas] tell women to go forward [the frontline of the riots]: ‘you are a woman, go forward, the army does not shoot women.’” the suspect said, whose face had been blurred out in the video.


----------



## Coyote

*A New Generation of Palestinian Chefs Poised to Conquer the World*
A new generation of Palestinian chefs poised to conquer the world

“I was linked as a child to my family and tradition, we celebrated all the holidays and I knew a lot of the stories and history, but not in depth. When I learned to read and speak Arabic fluently, the language became my heritage. Even the choice to deal with cooking professionally was part of a process of opening up to my family and community’s culture. When I handed the book to my father, he wept with emotion and said he never thought that I of all people would contribute so much to changing the world’s image of the Palestinian people,” Kalla said. 

The chef is part of a wave of third-generation Palestinian refugees and exiles trying to revolutionize their people's image by preserving and publicizing Palestinian culture. In many places, including Israel, first and second generations of immigrants are busy overcoming trauma and the difficulties of immigration alongside adapting to a new society. Those of the third generation don't need to prove they belong in the place where they were born, and many eventually seek to return to their roots and the traditions from which they were cut off. 

The kitchen provides a comfortable means of identity formation — in this case Palestinian — and can be used to disseminate historic and national heritage. The rhetoric used by these young chefs, many of them women, recalls the way in which the kitchen helped Jews preserve their identity in the Diaspora.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.
> 
> 
> He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.
> 
> Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*
> 
> “He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.
> 
> I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.
> 
> Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.
> 
> Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.


The problem with things like high tech, art, and music is getting paid for your work. Getting money from client to producers in Gaza is precarious and expensive. In the West Bank, Pay Pal for example, will service illegal settlements but will not provide services to the Palestinian village whose land that settlement sits on.

Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.
> 
> 
> He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.
> 
> Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*
> 
> “He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.
> 
> I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.
> 
> Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.
> 
> Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with things like high tech, art, and music is getting paid for your work. Getting money from client to producers in Gaza is precarious and expensive. In the West Bank, Pay Pal for example, will service illegal settlements but will not provide services to the Palestinian village whose land that settlement sits on.
> 
> Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment.
Click to expand...


No tourists in an enclave controlled by Islamic terrorists who routinely commit acts of war against Israel - with the expected Israeli response?

I’d have thought that the Islamic terrorist war being waged by Islamic terrorists along the Israeli border would be a tourist magnet. But you’re saying it’s not.

I find that shocking!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah from Gaza to Freedom: Future Scenarios for Palestine/Israel*

**
**
**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Q & A with Ali Abunimah from Gaza to Freedom: Future Scenarios for Palestine/Israel*

**
**
**
**
**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.
> 
> 
> He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.
> 
> Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*
> 
> “He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.
> 
> I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.
> 
> Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.
> 
> Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with things like high tech, art, and music is getting paid for your work. Getting money from client to producers in Gaza is precarious and expensive. In the West Bank, Pay Pal for example, will service illegal settlements but will not provide services to the Palestinian village whose land that settlement sits on.
> 
> Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment.
Click to expand...


But don’t you think the Palestinian leadership owns some responsibility for this?


----------



## Coyote

It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?



Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:

_Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._

Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.

Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the start ups..Sky Geeks, who’s founder had left Gaza and felt he had to return, a video of was posted by T earlier I believe.
> 
> 
> He Found A Way Out Of Gaza. Then, Something Drew Him Back.
> 
> Altaharwi is the manager of the pre-seed startup accelerator at Gaza Sky Geeks, the improbable Mercy Corps.-funded tech accelerator that operates inside blockaded Gaza. He is a rarity. *Altaharwi not only managed to leave Gaza, eventually earning an MBA in Germany, but he gave up the chance to work at McKinsey, Bain or Accenture -- Big Three firms he was in discussions with -- to come back.*
> 
> “He could have gone to (one of them) but decided to come back to Gaza to work with us. I still can’t believe it,” says Ryan Sturgill, Gaza Sky Geeks director.
> 
> I checked in on the Geeks during these past weeks of terrible violence. When you see the numbers – more than 115 Palestinians killed and 13,000 wounded -- it’s hard to imagine life going on normally there. The U.N. has said it will be unlivable by 2020. But more than 1.8 million people live in Gaza, and despite the electricity shortages and the collapsing infrastructure, in some places some people manage to maintain hope against the odds.
> 
> Gaza Sky Geeks is one of those places.
> 
> Amazingly, it has more than doubled in size since I visited in 2016. In addition to admitting a larger cohort of startups, Gaza Sky Geeks has started a freelance community and a coder program. The budget of $400,000 has swelled to $900,000. I saw an office with a few dozen people. These days, there are more than 120 people there on a daily basis, and all of its programs must turn away applicants.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with things like high tech, art, and music is getting paid for your work. Getting money from client to producers in Gaza is precarious and expensive. In the West Bank, Pay Pal for example, will service illegal settlements but will not provide services to the Palestinian village whose land that settlement sits on.
> 
> Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But don’t you think the Palestinian leadership owns some responsibility for this?
Click to expand...

How so? (You know I have always been critical of the so called Palestinian leadership.)


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?



I think if you look through the thread, one can’t help but take away that the thread was intended to be nothing more than a place to dump YouTube videos from PressTV and other Islamic propaganda sources as a means for vilifying Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
Click to expand...

What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.

*This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
Click to expand...



Thank you for proving both mine and Hollie's point.


----------



## Hollie

*Actually, this is what the Islamic terrorist welfare fraud looks like.


Gaza’s Millionaires and Billionaires — How Hamas’s Leaders Got Rich Quick*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving both mine and Hollie's point.
Click to expand...

What point is that? That Israel destroys anything and everything Palestinian.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving both mine and Hollie's point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point is that? That Israel destroys anything and everything Palestinian.
Click to expand...


That’s rather pointless.

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving both mine and Hollie's point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point is that? That Israel destroys anything and everything Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s rather pointless.
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

We could start with Israel destroying 500 Palestinians towns and villages in 1948. Then we could start a whole thread of Israel's destruction since then.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> 
> 
> What happens when the Palestinians try to do for themselves.
> 
> *This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving both mine and Hollie's point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point is that? That Israel destroys anything and everything Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s rather pointless.
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We could start with Israel destroying 500 Palestinians towns and villages in 1948. Then we could start a whole thread of Israel's destruction since then.
Click to expand...


Maybe we start with you settling down with your hysterical screeching. 

Aren’t you actually lamenting the loss of land area once conquered by the Islamic Settler Colonial Project?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What point is that? That Israel destroys anything and everything Palestinian.



Oop.  There ya go.  Proving it again.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
Click to expand...


But it isn’t just Tinmore Shusha.  I posted multiple posts on Palestinian start ups, achievements, music etc.  - and it is trolled. For every positive post I posted, Hollie counters with Palestinian terrorist memes. So tell me, how is THAT Team Israel defending Israel?  To me, it looks like Team Israel attacking anything good about Palestinians.  Look at the thread.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it isn’t just Tinmore Shusha.  I posted multiple posts on Palestinian start ups, achievements, music etc.  - and it is trolled. For every positive post I posted, Hollie counters with Palestinian terrorist memes. So tell me, how is THAT Team Israel defending Israel?  To me, it looks like Team Israel attacking anything good about Palestinians.  Look at the thread.
Click to expand...


It seems you’re subjectively defining trolling as posts critical of Arab-Moslem behavior you don’t agree with.

My posts in this thread have been related to the thread topic and more often than not, in direct rebuttal to preceding posts. This post, for example, in direct response to your references to me.

Thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

A little “honor killing” can go a long way toward keeping the Islamic womenfolk in line.


"In Al-Aqsa Mosque Address, Palestinian Cleric ‘Issam Amira Encourages Honor Killings: We Are Ready to Kill Our Women If They Take Their Honor Lightly"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Religious Discrimination in Europe | Dr. Laila al-Marayati*

**


----------



## Hollie

Discrimination toward Christians in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it isn’t just Tinmore Shusha.  I posted multiple posts on Palestinian start ups, achievements, music etc.  - and it is trolled. For every positive post I posted, Hollie counters with Palestinian terrorist memes. So tell me, how is THAT Team Israel defending Israel?  To me, it looks like Team Israel attacking anything good about Palestinians.  Look at the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you’re subjectively defining trolling as posts critical of Arab-Moslem behavior you don’t agree with.
> 
> My posts in this thread have been related to the thread topic and more often than not, in direct rebuttal to preceding posts. This post, for example, in direct response to your references to me.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you look...there are plenty of critical posts.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it isn’t just Tinmore Shusha.  I posted multiple posts on Palestinian start ups, achievements, music etc.  - and it is trolled. For every positive post I posted, Hollie counters with Palestinian terrorist memes. So tell me, how is THAT Team Israel defending Israel?  To me, it looks like Team Israel attacking anything good about Palestinians.  Look at the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you’re subjectively defining trolling as posts critical of Arab-Moslem behavior you don’t agree with.
> 
> My posts in this thread have been related to the thread topic and more often than not, in direct rebuttal to preceding posts. This post, for example, in direct response to your references to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you look...there are plenty of critical posts.
Click to expand...


If that is a rule violation, identify the rule.

Thanks.


----------



## Hollie

In other happy-fun “The Islamist Cleric says”


"Khan Al-Ahmar Friday Sermon by PA Judge Sheikh Muhannad Abu Al-Rumi: The Jews' Rabbis Sanction All Global Corruption"


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It never fails.  Start threads on positive aspects of the Palestinians and they get trolled by pro Israel.  Is it so impossible to acknowledge or celebrate any positive movements, happenings among the Palestinians?  We have multiple pro Israel threads who’s integrity is largely respected and protected...so why not here?  Why is news like what is posted here largely buried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its probably because of people like Tinmore who whine and blame Israel for everything.  Like this from a few posts back:
> 
> _Also, Gaza has infrastructure for tourism. The problem is that there are no tourists. Hotels only get Israeli approved journalists and NGO workers. Before Israeli restrictions, Israeli Jews used to go to Gaza for food and entertainment._
> 
> Naturally, Team Israel responds defending Israel.  If Team Palestine just posted good things about Palestine, without following up with a victim whine about how horrible Israel is, then the thread wouldn't dissolve into Team Israel defending Israel.
> 
> Kinda like the whole conflict.  If Palestine just concentrated on Palestine, instead of attacking Israel, then Israel wouldn't have to defend itself and the whole conflict would be over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it isn’t just Tinmore Shusha.  I posted multiple posts on Palestinian start ups, achievements, music etc.  - and it is trolled. For every positive post I posted, Hollie counters with Palestinian terrorist memes. So tell me, how is THAT Team Israel defending Israel?  To me, it looks like Team Israel attacking anything good about Palestinians.  Look at the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you’re subjectively defining trolling as posts critical of Arab-Moslem behavior you don’t agree with.
> 
> My posts in this thread have been related to the thread topic and more often than not, in direct rebuttal to preceding posts. This post, for example, in direct response to your references to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you look...there are plenty of critical posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that is a rule violation, identify the rule.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


*PM me if you have moderation questions.

Thanks.*


----------



## Hollie

Thank you, Mahmoud, for living as far away from me as possible.


"Abbas's Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: Women's Mental Nature Cannot Yield an Authentic Testimony in Some Legal Cases"


----------



## flacaltenn

Coyote said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other 80 employees are based in Rawabi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there it is. That beautiful NEW planned Pali city I've been pitching for --- couldn't happen without sharing an economy with Israel.  Latest news is that only about 40% of Palis and Israelis support a 2 state solution. PART of that is because of the economic connections like this one where wages made in Israel are a LARGE part of the West Bank GDP..
> 
> It just has to be FAIRER trade. But that's an easier problem than trying to solve the whole Mid East peace problem.
> 
> *90% of Pali sympathizers don't BEGIN to understand the love/hate relationship that's going on here.* Think these folks are just helpless victims. They are NOT. In fact, Palestinians are extremely motivated and innovative. And they by and large are not doing badly at all in the West Bank --- EVEN WITH the security walls and hardships.
> 
> They would be totally capable of managing their own CITIES and 'burbs", but not so hot on the idea of a "unity national govt" at all. *And there is the clue to ending this awful thing.. .
> *
> (submitted the Palestine Trade Zone paper to Foreign Affairs magazine this past week, got a GOOD feeling about getting it published there)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would add that 90% of the pro Israel doesn’t either.  The prevailing narrative from that side is that the Palestinians are just a bunch of murdering regressive thugs and parasites.
Click to expand...


Pretty sure that's based on their LEADERSHIP and the fact that too many of the Palis actually think that Israel is gonna call a moving company and pack their shit and go somewhere else if they support terrorists as leaders.

The good news is -- Hamas ain't long for leadership in Gaza. Might take another Pali Civil War -- but I don't think those folks in "the Strip" want to live that way. They WANT to be part of the 21st century..


----------



## theliq

flacaltenn said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The other 80 employees are based in Rawabi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there it is. That beautiful NEW planned Pali city I've been pitching for --- couldn't happen without sharing an economy with Israel.  Latest news is that only about 40% of Palis and Israelis support a 2 state solution. PART of that is because of the economic connections like this one where wages made in Israel are a LARGE part of the West Bank GDP..
> 
> It just has to be FAIRER trade. But that's an easier problem than trying to solve the whole Mid East peace problem.
> 
> *90% of Pali sympathizers don't BEGIN to understand the love/hate relationship that's going on here.* Think these folks are just helpless victims. They are NOT. In fact, Palestinians are extremely motivated and innovative. And they by and large are not doing badly at all in the West Bank --- EVEN WITH the security walls and hardships.
> 
> They would be totally capable of managing their own CITIES and 'burbs", but not so hot on the idea of a "unity national govt" at all. *And there is the clue to ending this awful thing.. .
> *
> (submitted the Palestine Trade Zone paper to Foreign Affairs magazine this past week, got a GOOD feeling about getting it published there)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would add that 90% of the pro Israel doesn’t either.  The prevailing narrative from that side is that the Palestinians are just a bunch of murdering regressive thugs and parasites.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretty sure that's based on their LEADERSHIP and the fact that too many of the Palis actually think that Israel is gonna call a moving company and pack their shit and go somewhere else if they support terrorists as leaders.
> 
> The good news is -- Hamas ain't long for leadership in Gaza. Might take another Pali Civil War -- but I don't think those folks in "the Strip" want to live that way. They WANT to be part of the 21st century..
Click to expand...

What!!!!! and live under the Medieval and repressive YOKE of the Zionists.....I DON'T THINK SO Flaac,what ever makes you think that...steve


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



On the contrary.

At the bottom of the photo is a victim of systemic, institutionalized child abuse at the hands of his parents and his culture.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Linkiloo

P F Tinmore said:


>


What parent would permit a child at that age to throw stones as a tank? That you actually believe that this is a strong argument for Palestinians, beggars belief.


----------



## Linkiloo

P F Tinmore said:


>


What happened to the millions paid to Hamas in past decades?


----------



## Linkiloo

P F Tinmore said:


>


More child abuse.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas version of the Hitler Youth Camp


----------



## Hollie

The ideological wasteland that is Islamism. Nothing has changed since 632 AD


----------



## Mindful

It's the  Palestinians who continue to pay the price for the vicious strife between their "leaders" -- in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hezbollah and Hamas.

Get rid of those two factions, and we might make some progress.


----------



## P F Tinmore

This is the political division in Palestine.

*PFLP pledges to resist Fayyad plan to disarm the resistance*

Nov 202007

The following report, by journalist Yousef al-Helou in Gaza, was carried on Press TV on November 20, 2007, featuring PFLP fighters’ commitment to resist Fayyad’s and the Palestinian Authority’s plans to disarm the resistance:


----------



## Hollie

*An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids*

An inside look at a terrorist group's summer camp for kids
_



__Abid Katib/Getty Images_
_A masked Palestinian boy demonstrates martial arts maneuvers with a plastic gun March 5, 2004 in the Al-Bureij refugee camp in the Gaza Strip.

_
The heroic Death Cult "resistance". 

Child abuse taken to the extreme.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Conference: the role of women in the palestinian popular struggle. Leila Khaled, Sahar Francis and Ahed Tamimi.


----------



## Hollie

Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Hollie, et al,

Not that I think Resolution A/RES/194 (III) has any strength to it.  It specifically lays down the requirement that:  "live at peace with their neighbors."  The Arab Palestinians make this a near-impossible operation to accomplish given their ongoing Psychological Operations on upcoming generations.



Hollie said:


> Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.


*(COMMENT)*

A preceding couple of generations have been transferring hatred down to the newer generations.  This contamination is quite advanced in some cases.

*The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:*​
The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​
The Arab Palestinians were not able to endorse "peace with their neighbors" in the past; → and every generation of Arab Palestinians since 1988 has been contaminated by the generational transference of hatred towards the Jewish People.

With each passing generation, the children mature with the ingrained temperament that "peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Not that I think Resolution A/RES/194 (III) has any strength to it.  It specifically lays down the requirement that:  "live at peace with their neighbors."  The Arab Palestinians make this a near-impossible operation to accomplish given their ongoing Psychological Operations on upcoming generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A preceding couple of generations have been transferring hatred down to the newer generations.  This contamination is quite advanced in some cases.
> 
> *The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:*​
> The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
> 
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​
> The Arab Palestinians were not able to endorse "peace with their neighbors" in the past; → and every generation of Arab Palestinians since 1988 has been contaminated by the generational transference of hatred towards the Jewish People.
> 
> With each passing generation, the children mature with the ingrained temperament that "peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Great points, Rocco. On a great many days when looking at the news coming out of the Pal'istanian territories, It seems somehow that I fell asleep last night and woke up in 1215. The ink on the Magna Carta is not yet dry.

This madness of instructing generation after generation of young people to despise themselves and others with enough fury to worship the idea of calculated mass murder is not happening in any other society on the globe at this time. It is only happening in the cause of Islam's gee-had and in the Gaza and the West Bank, it’s happening with the financial and logistical support of a UNRWA, its sympathizers and enablers and it is definitely occurring frequently enough to require any objective, reasoned person conclude that this problem is directly related to Islamic doctrine.

In many instances, the most effective way to explain a perplexing phenomenon is by employing Occam's razor. This logical device dictates that when several seemingly valid theories are competing to explain a phenomenon or event, the complex ones should be cut away until the most simple remains. _Occam's razor_ often works remarkably well in helping one to get to the truth. It dispenses with the elaborate, interesting, and psychologically/emotionally appealing explanations that we would like to be true, but which aren't. Such is the case with the conundrum of the Islamist mass murderer/Splodeydope, or other _holy warrior_™.

Examine the motivations of Hamas and the other islamic terrorist franchises in the disputed territories and you'll find the orthodox moslem doctrines of Jew hatreds and subjugation of the infidel playing a part. Let's be honest, the ummah clearly doesn't enjoin right nor does it forbid wrong.

Look at the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Magna Carta and both Greek and Roman philosophy. These are the instruments that shaped the U.S. and Western culture, respectively. All of these tenets represent the distillation of centuries of Judeo-Christian principles and convictions the work of Locke, Hume, Rousseau, Paine, _et al_.  <--- ( I borrowed that from your writing), into a codified framework of law that guarantees rights and liberties to all people— fair and equal treatment under the law.

None of those elements in those ideals are represented in the Pal’istanian territories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Not that I think Resolution A/RES/194 (III) has any strength to it.  It specifically lays down the requirement that:  "live at peace with their neighbors."  The Arab Palestinians make this a near-impossible operation to accomplish given their ongoing Psychological Operations on upcoming generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A preceding couple of generations have been transferring hatred down to the newer generations.  This contamination is quite advanced in some cases.
> 
> *The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:*​
> The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
> 
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​
> The Arab Palestinians were not able to endorse "peace with their neighbors" in the past; → and every generation of Arab Palestinians since 1988 has been contaminated by the generational transference of hatred towards the Jewish People.
> 
> With each passing generation, the children mature with the ingrained temperament that "peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is no peace* because *they are not allowed to go back home.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Not that I think Resolution A/RES/194 (III) has any strength to it.  It specifically lays down the requirement that:  "live at peace with their neighbors."  The Arab Palestinians make this a near-impossible operation to accomplish given their ongoing Psychological Operations on upcoming generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A preceding couple of generations have been transferring hatred down to the newer generations.  This contamination is quite advanced in some cases.
> 
> *The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:*​
> The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
> 
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​
> The Arab Palestinians were not able to endorse "peace with their neighbors" in the past; → and every generation of Arab Palestinians since 1988 has been contaminated by the generational transference of hatred towards the Jewish People.
> 
> With each passing generation, the children mature with the ingrained temperament that "peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no peace* because *they are not allowed to go back home.
Click to expand...


Nothing but your tired slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Wholesome Hitler Youth Fun and Games.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no peace* because *they are not allowed to go back home.



So much irony with this statement.  The Palestinian mentality that they will wage war against those who went back home for going back home while whining that they are not allowed to go back home.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Not that I think Resolution A/RES/194 (III) has any strength to it.  It specifically lays down the requirement that:  "live at peace with their neighbors."  The Arab Palestinians make this a near-impossible operation to accomplish given their ongoing Psychological Operations on upcoming generations.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conference, of sorts, on the role of gee-had for the aspiring Death Cultist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A preceding couple of generations have been transferring hatred down to the newer generations.  This contamination is quite advanced in some cases.
> 
> *The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty:*​
> The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
> 
> It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).​
> The Arab Palestinians were not able to endorse "peace with their neighbors" in the past; → and every generation of Arab Palestinians since 1988 has been contaminated by the generational transference of hatred towards the Jewish People.
> 
> With each passing generation, the children mature with the ingrained temperament that "peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no peace* because *they are not allowed to go back home.
Click to expand...


There is no “ peace “ because;
   The Israelis refuse to become the minority
    Many have pledged to “ go back to 48”
   Many have vowed to throw the Israelis out
      Just a little bit of common sense would suggest that IF Israel were stupid enough to do it the end result would be a Civil War
    THAT is why there is no “ peace”

Hope they keep insisting on it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel delivers exile order to Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Hamas version of the Hitler Youth Camp


Hollie,I have seen plenty of pics.,shewing Zionist/Israeli children in the same pose,so stop being a complete hypocrite,please...Why have you been banned...steve


----------



## theliq

Linkiloo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the millions paid to Hamas in past decades?
Click to expand...

What happened to the Billions paid to the Zionist/Israelis in the past decades ??????


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the millions paid to Hamas in past decades?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened to the Billions paid to the Zionist/Israelis in the past decades ??????
Click to expand...


Have you heard of loan guarantees?

Didn't think you had.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians do not need to create "a state."
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Yes and I've got a nice Persian rug to sell especially for You...

Hamas Interior Minister: We are Egyptians and Saudis, Allahu Akbar


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
Click to expand...

I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.

But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Pal'istan was a "country".
> 
> 
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes and I've got a nice Persian rug to sell especially for You...
> 
> Hamas Interior Minister: We are Egyptians and Saudis, Allahu Akbar
Click to expand...


Rylah; didn't the Palestinians originate with Arafat?

There was no concept of a separate identity during the Ottoman and Mandate period. Or even under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation .


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is confusing here in the US. Our "country" is made up of 50 "states."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why Israel is a unique case, because unlike in the US and the rest of the middle east, the indigenous nation actually became independent - a thing that Arabs still whine about, and the US will probably never allow.
> 
> Why don't You give 1 state to the Indians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The American Indians received US citizenship (I don't know. About a hundred years ago or so.) One is now running for congress. One was the vice presidential candidate in a presidential election.
> 
> Winona LaDuke - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many do not live on the Rez and just live out like everyone else. One friend of mine owned a shrimp boat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indigenous saving our food.
> 
> *TedxTC Seeds of our Ancestors, Seeds of Life*
> 
> 
> *A seed library to save Palestinian agricultural heritage*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes and I've got a nice Persian rug to sell especially for You...
> 
> Hamas Interior Minister: We are Egyptians and Saudis, Allahu Akbar
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah; didn't the Palestinians originate with Arafat?
> 
> There was no concept of a separate identity during the Ottoman and Mandate period. Or even under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation .
Click to expand...


That's a tricky question no one has yet to explicitly answer, depends on the audience.

The biggest Arab family clan in Israel is Massarwa - of explicit Egyptian origins.

*History*
The geographical proximity and the fact that the Land of Israel was for centuries under a regime centered in Egypt led to the almost permanent migration of peasants and Bedouins from Egypt to the Land of Israel. Beginning in the 18th century , this immigration increased, culminating in the days of Ibrahim Pasha, who conquered Palestine in 1831 and ruled it until1840 . Many of his soldiers had deserted and remained in the country, and general immigration had increased since his rule. During the British Mandate many workers were brought from Egypt and some remained in Israel. The rise in the standard of living of the Arabs in the country also had a great influence on the Egyptian fellahs from the delta region, who suffered from great poverty and overcrowding.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.
> 
> But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.
Click to expand...

I gave an answer to a what looks like a loaded question.  What difference does it make?  Neither side originated it.

Instead of accepting it for what is you seek ways of marginalizing such as claiming they are all Israeli citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Show me a part of any _"Palestinian land"_ that wasn't vested with sovereignty of the Jewish people by an act of international law?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*San Francisco, California*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Times Square — Nakba Day 2018 Great Return March.*


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.
> 
> But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave an answer to a what looks like a loaded question.  What difference does it make?  Neither side originated it.
> 
> Instead of accepting it for what is you seek ways of marginalizing such as claiming they are all Israeli citizens.
Click to expand...


It's an Israeli project, founded by an Israeli woman, You posted it claiming it certainly reflects "Palestine today".
When You find me anything close to what Corey Gil Project or PIP initiate on the Palestinian side let me know.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When BDS-holes have an urge to post things like that, it's calming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*100 years of colonization. 100 years of resistance.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When BDS-holes have an urge to post things like that, it's calming.
Click to expand...

People have to know how to deal with assholes.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *100 years of colonization. 100 years of resistance.*



The sing says "no dialogue, no negotiation, until termination".
Genocidal slogans were part of accepted "peaceful" agendas indoctrinated by the wide Arab world at the time and before the British invasion. 

But tell me weren't the Arabs helping Britain invade?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When BDS-holes have an urge to post things like that, it's calming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People have to know how to deal with assholes.
Click to expand...


My condolences.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




There can not be any justice in "Palestine" when justice is only demanded for Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized I forgot to add the link to the site so it is now added.  It is very interesting.  Here is how they describe what they are doing.
> 
> What is PiP?
> *WHAT IS PIP?*
> *Political is Personal / Israel + Palestine* is a project of interviews conducted with individual Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women conveying how the conflict has  affected their lives. Their stories help to personalize one of the most seemingly intractable conflicts in the world.
> 
> *HOW - ARE THE STORIES WRITTEN*
> 
> All the stories feature *Palestinian and Israeli Jewish women*,  who are *18 years old or above*;
> The interviews are conducted either *face-to-face, via Skype, email, chat or phone *depending on circumstances and on the wishes of the interviewees;
> The *first name* of the interviewee is included in the title of her story or is completely *anonymous* - all depending on the wishes of the interviewee;
> Interviews are *free-flowing, *allowing for the subject's *safe, non-judgmental, open *telling of her thoughts, experience and feelings.
> Stories are *edited only for clarity, flow and structure.*
> *Tolerance, Respect and Sensitivity: *Once the story of an interviewee is written, it is sent back to her for her approval or modifications. Because of the sensitivity of the political situation, and because the stories will be publicly available, *no story is published without the full consent of the interviewee.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.
> 
> But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave an answer to a what looks like a loaded question.  What difference does it make?  Neither side originated it.
> 
> Instead of accepting it for what is you seek ways of marginalizing such as claiming they are all Israeli citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's an Israeli project, founded by an Israeli woman, You posted it claiming it certainly reflects "Palestine today".
> When You find me anything close to what Corey Gil Project or PIP initiate on the Palestinian side let me know.
Click to expand...


Exactly HOW does it not reflect Palestine today?  Did you read the stories?  Did you notice they included PALESTINIAN voices from Gaza and West Bank?  No?  Of course not.


----------



## Coyote

*
Mejdi*
Middle East Justice and Development Initiatives (Mejdi) is a local grassroots Palestinian organization *which was founded by Aziz Abu Sarah, a young Palestinian activist *who seeks to advocate cooperation and reconciliation efforts. Mejdi seeks to promote dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. one part of its peacemaking efforts is to promote local economic development, and strengthening of economic cooperation and Palestinian small businesses.[26] Abu Sarah has been consistently involved in a range of workshops and efforts in which he has promoted greater efforts towards reconciliation and dialogue between individual Israelis and Palestinians.[27]

*Roots/Judur/Shorashim: The Palestinian Israeli Initiative for Understanding, Nonviolence, and Reconciliation*
*At the start of 2014, community activists Ali Abu Awwad and Rabbi Hanan Schlesinger*,[30][31][32][33] along with others, formed "Roots", a group based in the West Bank area of Gush Etzion to promote dialog and eventually trust between Israelis and Palestinian as a path to peace.[34] The group's full name is Roots/Judur/Shorashim: The Palestinian Israeli Initiative for Understanding, Nonviolence, and Reconciliation, and was initially situated on Awwad's family’s land near the village of Beit Ummar in the West Bank.[35]

The Roots project organizes meetings between Israelis and Palestinians who live near each other in the West Bank in order to create dialogue. The project's outreach program includes monthly meetings between Israeli and Palestinian families, a women's group, work with school children, engaging local leaders, a summer camp, language learning, and cultural exchanges. In order to accommodate this wide variety of activities, a centrally-located site in the Gush Etzion area of the West Bank is used as a convenient meeting area.[36]

Ali Abu Awwad is a Palestinian activist and pacifist. He is the founder of Al Tariq (The Way) and a member of the Bereaved Families Forum, and tours the world together with Robi Damelin, a Jewish woman whose son was killed by a Palestinian sniper, to encourage dialogue and reconciliation between Palestinians and Israelis. His life and work has been featured in two award-winning films, Encounter Point and Forbidden Childhood. He lives in Beit Ummar, near Hebron.[37]

Ali Abu Awwad, whose brother died in the conflice, attends many meetings with local Jewish residents.[38] One of the very first such meetings of his occurred in July 2014, between local Israeli and Palestinians within one part of the Etzion bloc in the West Bank.[39]

Source: Arab–Israeli peace projects - Wikipedia


There are actually quite a lengthy list of cooperative programs and groups involving Palestinians and Jews...but apparently despite the participation of Palestinians in these efforts...it doesn’t “count” unless they initiate the project.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the millions paid to Hamas in past decades?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened to the Billions paid to the Zionist/Israelis in the past decades ??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you heard of loan guarantees?
> 
> Didn't think you had.
Click to expand...

I have but Israel don't adhere to them,so your next question to me is?

Quite a few people think I am extremely nice to you,which is how it should be but you don't have to be so negative in response all the time,men can be nice and respectful,just because things have not always been so great in life,does not mean you have to pretend to hate me,just be yourself...Captain Mindful...siam


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Any proof yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which side initiated this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.
> 
> But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave an answer to a what looks like a loaded question.  What difference does it make?  Neither side originated it.
> 
> Instead of accepting it for what is you seek ways of marginalizing such as claiming they are all Israeli citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's an Israeli project, founded by an Israeli woman, You posted it claiming it certainly reflects "Palestine today".
> When You find me anything close to what Corey Gil Project or PIP initiate on the Palestinian side let me know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly HOW does it not reflect Palestine today?  Did you read the stories?  Did you notice they included PALESTINIAN voices from Gaza and West Bank?  No?  Of course not.
Click to expand...


Yes I did, what's wrong with mentioning it's an Israeli initiative?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



She merely wanted to be the next Jihadi martyr,
guess American poets do that shit all the time...


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


>


Looks like great fun.

Out, pesky Muslim-Arabs... out.

Any so-called Palestinian with an ounce of brains should be packing up and emigrating elsewhere in the world.

While they still have time, before they're forced out.

Nature will de-select those lacking the brains to leave.

They will end-up in a tent on the East Bank of the Jordan, pissing and moaning for another 70 years, pointlessly.

It's what happens when an armed, modern civilization confronts the remnants of a hostile State that never existed and that never will exist.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What difference does it make?  Why is it you are so utterly unwilling to credit Palestinians with anything good yet you rail on about the demonizing of Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> I merely asked a simple question, if You don't wanna answer just say, and I'll treat our further exchange accordingly.
> 
> But let's be clear on one thing, these infantile deflections from discussing factual data, don't give You ground to point fingers at anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave an answer to a what looks like a loaded question.  What difference does it make?  Neither side originated it.
> 
> Instead of accepting it for what is you seek ways of marginalizing such as claiming they are all Israeli citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's an Israeli project, founded by an Israeli woman, You posted it claiming it certainly reflects "Palestine today".
> When You find me anything close to what Corey Gil Project or PIP initiate on the Palestinian side let me know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly HOW does it not reflect Palestine today?  Did you read the stories?  Did you notice they included PALESTINIAN voices from Gaza and West Bank?  No?  Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I did, what's wrong with mentioning it's an Israeli initiative?
Click to expand...

Did I say anything was wrong with it? No.  I asked why does it matter.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Did I say anything was wrong with it? No.  I asked why does it matter.



I'll chime in and say that I think it does matter.  It matters because "normalization" with Israel (read: Jews) is still very much rejected by much of the Arab Palestinians and certainly by their government.  

The residents of Khan al Ahmar are being threatened in order to ensure they don't co-operate with Israel.  The residents of Nabi Saleh certainly don't seem to be interested in mutual enjoyment of the local spring.  And again, the travesty that if the Temple Mount.  As examples.  

Yes, I realize I am painting with a broad brush, but I have yet to see many examples, let alone common examples, of Arab Palestinians in the WB and Gaza reaching out to Jews for normalization and mutual support.  This has yet to become a presence in the conflict, imo.


----------



## Shusha

The common thread seems to be that the only solution to the conflict is to return ALL "Arab lands" to Arab control.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I say anything was wrong with it? No.  I asked why does it matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll chime in and say that I think it does matter.  It matters because "normalization" with Israel (read: Jews) is still very much rejected by much of the Arab Palestinians and certainly by their government.
> 
> The residents of Khan al Ahmar are being threatened in order to ensure they don't co-operate with Israel.  The residents of Nabi Saleh certainly don't seem to be interested in mutual enjoyment of the local spring.  And again, the travesty that if the Temple Mount.  As examples.
> 
> Yes, I realize I am painting with a broad brush, but I have yet to see many examples, let alone common examples, of Arab Palestinians in the WB and Gaza reaching out to Jews for normalization and mutual support.  This has yet to become a presence in the conflict, imo.
Click to expand...

I gave some examples of Palestinians initiating programs.  In each of the endeavors started by an Israeli,  Palestinians participate (at far greater risk than Israeli's) and even share leadership roles.  Unlike Israeli's, Palestinians risk violence from their own governnent (Hamas) for cooperative endeavers.  And when these peograms and initiatives are pointed out, the response is dismissive as if all the credit belongs to the Israeli's.  So IS IT different?  No.  It really isnt.  Oneis operating from a stable, secure, pitically strong system.  The other is operating from a chaotic, unpredictable and politically unstable position.  One side incurs no risk, the other consiidetable risk for cooperating.  One side is a well watered garden of programs and endeavers, the other is only beginning to plant the seeds.  And and over their efforts are dismissed.


----------



## Shusha

Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.

There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:

_"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I say anything was wrong with it? No.  I asked why does it matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll chime in and say that I think it does matter.  It matters because "normalization" with Israel (read: Jews) is still very much rejected by much of the Arab Palestinians and certainly by their government.
> 
> The residents of Khan al Ahmar are being threatened in order to ensure they don't co-operate with Israel.  The residents of Nabi Saleh certainly don't seem to be interested in mutual enjoyment of the local spring.  And again, the travesty that if the Temple Mount.  As examples.
> 
> Yes, I realize I am painting with a broad brush, but I have yet to see many examples, let alone common examples, of Arab Palestinians in the WB and Gaza reaching out to Jews for normalization and mutual support.  This has yet to become a presence in the conflict, imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I gave some examples of Palestinians initiating programs.  In each of the endeavors started by an Israeli,  Palestinians participate (at far greater risk than Israeli's) and even share leadership roles.  Unlike Israeli's, Palestinians risk violence from their own governnent (Hamas) for cooperative endeavers.  And when these peograms and initiatives are pointed out, the response is dismissive as if all the credit belongs to the Israeli's.  So IS IT different?  No.  It really isnt.  Oneis operating from a stable, secure, pitically strong system.  The other is operating from a chaotic, unpredictable and politically unstable position.  One side incurs no risk, the other consiidetable risk for cooperating.  One side is a well watered garden of programs and endeavers, the other is only beginning to plant the seeds.  And and over their efforts are dismissed.
Click to expand...



Exactly.  You just confirmed my point.  That is exactly why it matters.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote 

I'll expand on my previous posts concerning "normalization".  In order to end the conflict, relations between the two peoples must be normalized.  By definition.  

There is no point in Arab Palestinians having dialogue with Israelis "for peace" if Arab Palestinians, as a whole or predominately, are resistant to normalization.  That should be an internal Arab dialogue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._


Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
Click to expand...


Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along". 

But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
Click to expand...

So, what are israel's policies that could change?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
Click to expand...


I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.  

What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
Click to expand...



He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION

He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"

The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.

Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.

Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?

It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
Click to expand...



He is going to argue that the Israeli policy of "existing" is the problem.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He is going to argue that the Israeli policy of "existing" is the problem.
Click to expand...


Then he doesn't believe in the U.N. or " International Law"  If he doesn't why should Israel?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, that is a fogged perception.



P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalization projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalize the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Conflict _(Hostilities)_ end as a matter of restraint_ (an Armistice of sorts)_.  The cessation hostilities are not dependent on the political climate, the normalization of diplomacy, or the extension of an olive branch.

The discussion of policy _(relative to an insurgency and asymmetric entanglement)_ and the change in direction is accomplished through 'baby-steps.' 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.


You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, that is a fogged perception.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalization projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalize the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Conflict _(Hostilities)_ end as a matter of restraint_ (an Armistice of sorts)_.  The cessation hostilities are not dependent on the political climate, the normalization of diplomacy, or the extension of an olive branch.
> 
> The discussion of policy _(relative to an insurgency and asymmetric entanglement)_ and the change in direction is accomplished through 'baby-steps.'
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
Click to expand...



It's not arbitrary.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
Click to expand...

What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
Click to expand...


In the past I have posted MANY You Tube Videos in which they are chanting “ Back to 48!!” and where Palestinians were interviewed stating that their goal is to kick EVERY Israeli out and “ send them back to the Country they came from”  That gave me a clue ! 
  Would EVERY Refugee feel that way? Of course not. But enough would where it would actually start a Civil War


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization is not "friendship" or "not getting along".
> 
> But normalization will actually change Israel's policies.  And Gaza and Palestine's.  That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
Click to expand...


Nobody is “ assuming “ anything. This has  been stated several times . The “ International Law” you love to quote specifically stated “ Live in Peace with Your Neighbors”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the past I have posted MANY You Tube Videos in which they are chanting “ Back to 48!!” and where Palestinians were interviewed stating that their goal is to kick EVERY Israeli out and “ send them back to the Country they came from”  That gave me a clue !
> Would EVERY Refugee feel that way? Of course not. But enough would where it would actually start a Civil War
Click to expand...

Broad brush.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

After more than seven (7) decades of war, just who is going to take that chance.



P F Tinmore said:


> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?


*(COMMENT)*
3 JULY 2018  Official Palestinian Authority TV

​
Most Resepctfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are israel's policies that could change?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
Click to expand...



Are you suggesting a personal interview for everyone wanting to return?  What sort of criteria would we be looking for?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that would entirely depend on your definition of "normalization" and how far you take it. If the violence and "resistance" ends, I can see all sorts of changes happening.
> 
> What are policies of Gaza and Palestine which could change?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting a personal interview for everyone wanting to return?  What sort of criteria would we be looking for?
Click to expand...


He doesn’t want an interview. He feels everybody should come in regardless of their feelings or intentions. What could be more obvious then his You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He will tell you that unless Israel capitulates to ALL demands they are not going to " change" and their is no reason for them to do so.  Seriously, that will end ALL DISCUSSION
> 
> He like to refer to INTERNATIONAL LAW??? This is part of the U.N. Declaration about " Right of Return"
> 
> The operative phrase that the Palestinians and their supporters conveniently overlook “accidentally on purpose” is the idea that any of those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Somehow, this phrase is never voiced by Palestinians or their supporters, as if the phrase was never written into the article.
> 
> Can anyone imagine a more foolish act by a government than to allow an influx of openly hostile people into its borders, a population group dedicated to the idea of that country’s destruction?
> 
> It should be noted that the Arab League, in its entirety, rejected UNGAR 194. The Palestinians have tried to resurrect it as “proof” that Palestinians are “guaranteed a right of return”… of course, without the need to “live at peace with their neighbors”, which negates the entire idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> those returning to their homes must be willing to “live at peace with their neighbours”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot deny people their rights because you just arbitrarily assume that they will not live in peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's not arbitrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the past I have posted MANY You Tube Videos in which they are chanting “ Back to 48!!” and where Palestinians were interviewed stating that their goal is to kick EVERY Israeli out and “ send them back to the Country they came from”  That gave me a clue !
> Would EVERY Refugee feel that way? Of course not. But enough would where it would actually start a Civil War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Broad brush.
Click to expand...


Deflection.  You asked a question and it was answered. What “ evidence “ do you have that they are willing to live in peace?  There is none


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> After more than seven (7) decades of war, just who is going to take that chance.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 3 JULY 2018  Official Palestinian Authority TV
> 
> ​
> Most Resepctfully,
> R
Click to expand...

War talk. Take away the war...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> War talk. Take away the war...



There is no war.  There is only belligerent terrorism and response.  No belligerence, no response.  No war.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oooo. A photo of stern looking LEOs. Must be evil Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oooo. A photo of stern looking LEOs. Must be evil Jews.
Click to expand...


Notice how he ignored the You Tube Video I posted about Hamas bearing a YOIUNG PALESTINIAN BOY?  Just like he will ignore this. And this is only ONE example


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I can't believe you said that_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> After more than seven (7) decades of war, just who is going to take that chance.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence do you have that any particular refugee would not live in peace?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 3 JULY 2018  Official Palestinian Authority TV
> 
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> War talk. Take away the war...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If you take away *"war"* from the conflict, what do you have_*?*_  I think that is called:  "Peace*!*"

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

*Why Palestinians Do Not Have a Parliament*


In the absence of a parliament, the Palestinians have no address to express their grievances. They cannot write to or phone their elected legislators to complain about anything. All they can do is resort to social media, especially Facebook, to air their views.


As Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas does not tolerate criticism particularly well, he doubtless feels more comfortable delivering speeches at international forums such as the United Nations, the European Parliament and his own Fatah and PLO institutions than at the Palestinian parliament. The others are places where no one takes him to task for his tyranny.


In the past few years, scores of Palestinians have been harassed, arrested and interrogated by Abbas's security forces for posting critical comments on Facebook.


Why Palestinians Do Not Have a Parliament


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Why Palestinians Do Not Have a Parliament*
> 
> 
> In the absence of a parliament, the Palestinians have no address to express their grievances. They cannot write to or phone their elected legislators to complain about anything. All they can do is resort to social media, especially Facebook, to air their views.
> 
> 
> As Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas does not tolerate criticism particularly well, he doubtless feels more comfortable delivering speeches at international forums such as the United Nations, the European Parliament and his own Fatah and PLO institutions than at the Palestinian parliament. The others are places where no one takes him to task for his tyranny.
> 
> 
> In the past few years, scores of Palestinians have been harassed, arrested and interrogated by Abbas's security forces for posting critical comments on Facebook.
> 
> Why Palestinians Do Not Have a Parliament


Abbas and Israel closed the parliament in June of 2007. Since the PM and all of his ministers must be approved by parliament before they can take office, there is no legal government in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another guy calling himself a "Palestinian" but cannot even pronounce the letter "P".

Balestinian what?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



All these videos from 12-4 years ago is exactly what Hamas is looking for now..


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting overview article concerning peace activism.
> 
> There are many quotes I could pull out, but it really is worth reading the whole thing.  Here is the concluding paragraph, though:
> 
> _"I don't think there is anything that can be called a joint peace movement. We don't accept them. They are normalisation projects used by Israel and certain foreign countries to normalise the situation._
> 
> 
> 
> Normalization assumes that the Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along. That is not the problem. The problem is Israel's policies. Friendships will not change those policies.
Click to expand...






*"Normalization..."*

..there is no such thing in a world where "_WKT_" are the government.  kite bombs, recruiting children as terrorists, and having gaza all to yourselves since...2005 - has been anything but NORMAL[living] ... remember all that in-fighting?












 _rocket and gun smuggling tunnels_



*"Israelis and Palestinians just don't get along"*





sorry, having terrorists as a government...._"ain't"_ *normal*.....






​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Haven’t seen the Video yet but does it bear any resemblance to Sleepless in Seattle?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven’t seen the Video yet but does it bear any resemblance to Sleepless in Seattle?
Click to expand...

It is about ethnic cleansing in 48 and farming in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An Israeli court on Thursday renewed the administrative detention of leading member of the PFLP Khalida Jarrar for the fourth consecutive time.

The military court approved the renewal order that would keep Jarrar in detention for three more months.

Israeli forces had detained Jarrar on July 2nd, 2017,a year after her release. Since then, her detention was renewed three times.






  Read more at  
Israel renews detention of Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yafa and Suha Jarrar Speak on the Injustice that Prevails: The Palestinian Occupation and the Gender Dynamics of the Struggle *

*




*

Our mother is a selfless, fearless, tireless fighter who is committed to social justice and anti-oppression not just in theory, but most importantly, in practice. Her politicalization started with the forced displacement of her family from the village of Bissan located in historic Palestine.

In addition to her current position as an elected member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), our mother has been a leftist feminist activist for over 20 years. She has been particularly active on issues of political incarceration and Palestinian political prisoners. Her most recent direct involvement against Israel’s apartheid system was her role in bringing forward the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) bid to the International Criminal Court over Israel’s war crimes against Palestinians in June 2014.

Our mother has been repeatedly targeted, harassed and repressed by the Israeli occupation forces over the years of her involvement in the fight against Israeli apartheid. Her first arrest was on March 8th, 1989 for taking part in a protest on International Women’s Day. Our father’s continuous arbitrary arrest throughout their life together was an integral reason behind her deep involvement in advocating for political prisoners’ rights.

On a more personal note, our mother raised us to acknowledge our privileges but also be aware of our colonized history and be familiar with the multi dimensional process of decolonization. As my sister, Yafa, once said in an interview, “my mother always speaks the truth to power. She is a woman and a loved leader. That is why they went after her… the occupation is vicious and their attack record shows anyone who speaks out against their aggression is a target”.

Yafa and Suha Jarrar Speak on the Injustice that Prevails: The Palestinian Occupation and the Gender Dynamics of the Struggle


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven’t seen the Video yet but does it bear any resemblance to Sleepless in Seattle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about ethnic cleansing in 48 and farming in Gaza.
Click to expand...


Translation; Israel has no right to exist. Remember the U.N. Resolution; Live in PEACE with your neighbors. ( yeah, right)


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven’t seen the Video yet but does it bear any resemblance to Sleepless in Seattle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is about ethnic cleansing in 48 and farming in Gaza.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation; Israel has no right to exist. Remember the U.N. Resolution; Live in PEACE with your neighbors. ( yeah, right)
Click to expand...

Ahhh, the old Israel has no right to exist mantra again.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Yafa and Suha Jarrar Speak on the Injustice that Prevails: The Palestinian Occupation and the Gender Dynamics of the Struggle *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Our mother is a selfless, fearless, tireless fighter who is committed to social justice and anti-oppression not just in theory, but most importantly, in practice. Her politicalization started with the forced displacement of her family from the village of Bissan located in historic Palestine.
> 
> In addition to her current position as an elected member of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), our mother has been a leftist feminist activist for over 20 years. She has been particularly active on issues of political incarceration and Palestinian political prisoners. Her most recent direct involvement against Israel’s apartheid system was her role in bringing forward the Palestinian Authority’s (PA) bid to the International Criminal Court over Israel’s war crimes against Palestinians in June 2014.
> 
> Our mother has been repeatedly targeted, harassed and repressed by the Israeli occupation forces over the years of her involvement in the fight against Israeli apartheid. Her first arrest was on March 8th, 1989 for taking part in a protest on International Women’s Day. Our father’s continuous arbitrary arrest throughout their life together was an integral reason behind her deep involvement in advocating for political prisoners’ rights.
> 
> On a more personal note, our mother raised us to acknowledge our privileges but also be aware of our colonized history and be familiar with the multi dimensional process of decolonization. As my sister, Yafa, once said in an interview, “my mother always speaks the truth to power. She is a woman and a loved leader. That is why they went after her… the occupation is vicious and their attack record shows anyone who speaks out against their aggression is a target”.
> 
> Yafa and Suha Jarrar Speak on the Injustice that Prevails: The Palestinian Occupation and the Gender Dynamics of the Struggle




This is a new and bizarre spin on the Palestinian Mentality -- that the Israeli/Arab conflict is a gender struggle with Jews being (surprise!) the bad guys.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Especially when they are being beaten by Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights to Resources*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **



Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
Click to expand...


They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
     They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers   
      Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.



The Palestinian Mentality:  Jews aren't neighbors, and can't be neighbors.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Mentality:  Jews aren't neighbors, and can't be neighbors.
Click to expand...


No, because according to him Israel doesn’t have the right to exist


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
Click to expand...

You have to go back 50 years? That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Mentality:  Jews aren't neighbors, and can't be neighbors.
Click to expand...

Indeed, occupiers are not neighbors.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
Click to expand...


Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Mentality:  Jews aren't neighbors, and can't be neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, occupiers are not neighbors.
Click to expand...


Those who “ Can’t live in Peace with their neighbors” can’t be neighbors


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
Click to expand...

That is what everybody is paid to do..


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn...   Live in peace with your neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
Click to expand...


To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at peace with all of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
Click to expand...

The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.

*Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> They live in “ peace” with Jordan and Egypt?
> The Palestinians live at “ peace “ with their neighbors???      That must be why Black September happened or why Egypt is doing their best to keep them out.
> They get along well with their neighbors? Are you referring to the prior occupiers
> Do you know who gets along with Egypt and Jordan? It’s Israel !!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to go back 50 years. That doesn't look like a systemic problem. There hasn't been anything since then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
Click to expand...

All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli snipers kill three Palestinian protesters and injure 376 including photojournalist Do'a Zarab at the March of Return in Gaza today. RIP


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian human rights lawyer Salah Hamouri was released from israeli prison after 13 months, nor charges were ever filed, no trial. The question is how long before Salah is kidnapped and imprisoned again, as israeli prisons are revolving doors for Palestinian human rights activists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Yafa, Palestine 1930


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt’s border to Gaza is closed. Israel gets along with Egypt and Jordan. I realize that upsets you but deal with it
> 
> 
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.
Click to expand...


DEFLECTION!!!   YOUR You Tube stated WITHOUT ISRAELIS! Nothing about the “ Two State Solution”.  Everytime you post you actually make my point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Yafa, Palestine 1930







ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what everybody is paid to do..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DEFLECTION!!!   YOUR You Tube stated WITHOUT ISRAELIS! Nothing about the “ Two State Solution”.  Everytime you post you actually make my point.
Click to expand...

What point?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Yafa, Palestine 1930
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> To “ Live in Peace?” That is what the Palestinians have vowed to do? Thread please
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DEFLECTION!!!   YOUR You Tube stated WITHOUT ISRAELIS! Nothing about the “ Two State Solution”.  Everytime you post you actually make my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point?
Click to expand...


Love to the land WITHOUT “ peace” for Israel. Nothing said about the “ Two State Solution “
 The majority are NOT interested in it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yafa, Palestine 1930
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians want to live in peace but they have been under attack for a hundred years.
> 
> *Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DEFLECTION!!!   YOUR You Tube stated WITHOUT ISRAELIS! Nothing about the “ Two State Solution”.  Everytime you post you actually make my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love to the land WITHOUT “ peace” for Israel. Nothing said about the “ Two State Solution “
> The majority are NOT interested in it
Click to expand...

OK, and?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yafa, Palestine 1930
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love for the land WITHOUT peace with the Israelis! Seriously, do you even know what you posted?
> 
> 
> 
> All of the aggression comes from Israel. The Palestinians are not in the position to make peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DEFLECTION!!!   YOUR You Tube stated WITHOUT ISRAELIS! Nothing about the “ Two State Solution”.  Everytime you post you actually make my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Love to the land WITHOUT “ peace” for Israel. Nothing said about the “ Two State Solution “
> The majority are NOT interested in it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, and?
Click to expand...


They don’t have the desire to make “ peace”
Even if Israel folded like s cheap towel and gave in to every demand. There there is no reason for Israel to do so.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>





"Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.  

There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.

Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Land day explained.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.


He never made that claim.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He never made that claim.
Click to expand...



Using the term "Palestine" implies it. It deliberately erases Jewish history and replaces it with "Palestinian" history which in modern context means Arab history.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Using the term "Palestine" implies it. It deliberately erases Jewish history and replaces it with "Palestinian" history which in modern context means Arab history.
Click to expand...


They claim Israel doesn’t have any Historic Religious History to the Western Wall and IF ( never happen) they were to get control of E. Jerusalem Jews would be forbidden. That says it all


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> They claim Israel doesn’t have any Historic Religious History to the Western Wall and IF ( never happen) they were to get control of E. Jerusalem Jews would be forbidden. That says it all



Jews are already forbidden.  Even under Israeli control.  Arab Muslim control of Jerusalem, the Old City, the Temple Mount, the Kotel, the City of David, the Cave of the Patriarchs and all other Jewish historical or Holy places is UNTHINKABLE.


----------



## Lipush

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
Click to expand...


Trying to explain that simply logic to him is like trying to explain color to one who was born blind.

For him there is only one side to the story. "Palestinians" and assholes. Any attempt of trying to argue with that will be met with a deaf ear.


----------



## Shusha

Lipush said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestine" in its modern usage carries the meaning of Arab heritage.  It excludes and erases and co-opts Jewish history.
> 
> There is not 4000 years of Arab history in the territory.  That is a deliberate falsehood, intended to create the illusion and evoke emotions of an unbroken chain of "Palestinian" history.  And erase the real history of European and Arab invasion,  colonialization, occupation.
> 
> Israel, a 4000 year old history would be accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trying to explain that simply logic to him is like trying to explain color to one who was born blind.
> 
> For him there is only one side to the story. "Palestinians" and assholes. Any attempt of trying to argue with that will be met with a deaf ear.
Click to expand...


Oh, we agree.  And I think it is much more insidious than just a "deaf ear".  Its an orchestra deliberately making "music" to erase the Jewish people.  

Haven't seen you in a while.  Nice to see you, Lipush.


----------



## Lipush

Yeah, have not posted here in a while, my lawyer exams are approaching and my head is a bit fuzzy, but it nice to see nothing has changed in here.


----------



## Shusha

Lipush said:


> Yeah, have not posted here in a while, my lawyer exams are approaching and my head is a bit fuzzy, but it nice to see nothing has changed in here.



Except that we miss you!  Best of good vibes for exams!


----------



## Lipush

Thank you.

Traveling around here, I see that not many new threads have been opened. huh.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Lipush said:


> Yeah, have not posted here in a while, my lawyer exams are approaching and my head is a bit fuzzy, but it nice to see nothing has changed in here.



Good Luck !!!!  Pass that Bar


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Apparently you’re lamenting the collapse of the Islamist Ottoman Empire. There was a time when Islamic fascism ruled that part of the world, when the imposition of dhimmitude was the normal state of affairs. When _Peaceful_ _Inner_ _Strugglers_ are in control, minority ethnicities / religious groups are subject to privation, oppression and even death if the local affiliates of the more excitable Arab-Moslem terrorist franchises get a hold of you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



That's a bunch of bs theatrics.

There's no crisis if Hamas and UNRWA let their people out of refugee camps.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



The irony of receiving such a diagnose by a supporter of suicidal psychopaths.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lipush

Thank you for making my point for me.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Palestine was a geographic area under control of the Ottoman Turks. It was never a “country”, contrary to your false representations. 

“Pal’istanians” as a national identity was the invention of an Egyptian in the late 1960’s.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a geographic area under control of the Ottoman Turks. It was never a “country”, contrary to your false representations.
> 
> “Pal’istanians” as a national identity was the invention of an Egyptian in the late 1960’s.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

BTW, welcome back. I missed your trolling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pamela Olson - Fast Times in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine was a geographic area under control of the Ottoman Turks. It was never a “country”, contrary to your false representations.
> 
> “Pal’istanians” as a national identity was the invention of an Egyptian in the late 1960’s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> BTW, welcome back. I missed your trolling.
Click to expand...


“Blah, blah, blah.”

Among your more compelling responses.


----------



## Hollie

*
The Fem Tent gee-had.


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rally Demands Justice For SFSU Professor Rabab Abdulhadi, Palestinian Students & Ed Program*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Misuse of Anti-Semitism*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*What Ahlam Tamimi 
Teaches Us about Islam*
*



*
*What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam*

*You learn more from what people do
 or don't do than from what they say*
*"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."*

Is Islam really against killing people?  That's what we always hear in the wake of high-profile terror attacks, even if it contradicts what we usually see.  Sometimes we're even told that the terrorists aren't Muslim (despite what the terrorists themselves think and say).  

But talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.  Do Muslims really act as if killing is against their religion?  Consider the case of Ahlam Tamimi:

Terrorists could hardly make it more obvious that innocent civilians are being targeted than when they bomb a restaurant packed with dozens of women, children and babies.  This is exactly happened on August 9, 2001 at a Sbarro's pizzaria in Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *What Ahlam Tamimi *
> *Teaches Us about Islam*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam*
> 
> *You learn more from what people do*
> * or don't do than from what they say*
> *"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."*
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?  That's what we always hear in the wake of high-profile terror attacks, even if it contradicts what we usually see.  Sometimes we're even told that the terrorists aren't Muslim (despite what the terrorists themselves think and say).
> 
> But talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.  Do Muslims really act as if killing is against their religion?  Consider the case of Ahlam Tamimi:
> 
> Terrorists could hardly make it more obvious that innocent civilians are being targeted than when they bomb a restaurant packed with dozens of women, children and babies.  This is exactly happened on August 9, 2001 at a Sbarro's pizzaria in Jerusalem.





Hollie said:


> Is Islam really against killing people?


What religion opposes self defense?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What Ahlam Tamimi *
> *Teaches Us about Islam*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam*
> 
> *You learn more from what people do*
> * or don't do than from what they say*
> *"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."*
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?  That's what we always hear in the wake of high-profile terror attacks, even if it contradicts what we usually see.  Sometimes we're even told that the terrorists aren't Muslim (despite what the terrorists themselves think and say).
> 
> But talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.  Do Muslims really act as if killing is against their religion?  Consider the case of Ahlam Tamimi:
> 
> Terrorists could hardly make it more obvious that innocent civilians are being targeted than when they bomb a restaurant packed with dozens of women, children and babies.  This is exactly happened on August 9, 2001 at a Sbarro's pizzaria in Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What religion opposes self defense?
Click to expand...


What quasi-religion promotes mass murder/suicide?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What Ahlam Tamimi *
> *Teaches Us about Islam*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam*
> 
> *You learn more from what people do*
> * or don't do than from what they say*
> *"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."*
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?  That's what we always hear in the wake of high-profile terror attacks, even if it contradicts what we usually see.  Sometimes we're even told that the terrorists aren't Muslim (despite what the terrorists themselves think and say).
> 
> But talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.  Do Muslims really act as if killing is against their religion?  Consider the case of Ahlam Tamimi:
> 
> Terrorists could hardly make it more obvious that innocent civilians are being targeted than when they bomb a restaurant packed with dozens of women, children and babies.  This is exactly happened on August 9, 2001 at a Sbarro's pizzaria in Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What religion opposes self defense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What quasi-religion promotes mass murder/suicide?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What Ahlam Tamimi *
> *Teaches Us about Islam*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *What Ahlam Tamimi Teaches Us about Islam*
> 
> *You learn more from what people do*
> * or don't do than from what they say*
> *"If Islam were truly against killing, one could hardly imagine a scenario more tailored to evoke Muslim outrage than unrepentant child killers literally receiving the royal treatment at Islam's holiest site..."*
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?  That's what we always hear in the wake of high-profile terror attacks, even if it contradicts what we usually see.  Sometimes we're even told that the terrorists aren't Muslim (despite what the terrorists themselves think and say).
> 
> But talk is cheap.  Actions speak louder.  Do Muslims really act as if killing is against their religion?  Consider the case of Ahlam Tamimi:
> 
> Terrorists could hardly make it more obvious that innocent civilians are being targeted than when they bomb a restaurant packed with dozens of women, children and babies.  This is exactly happened on August 9, 2001 at a Sbarro's pizzaria in Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Islam really against killing people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What religion opposes self defense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What quasi-religion promotes mass murder/suicide?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Your usual retreat.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Such is the failure of islamic fascism. You can't enforce the Dhimmi status on those who exceed you in every measurable way.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such is the failure of islamic fascism. You can't enforce the Dhimmi status on those who exceed you in every measurable way.
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such is the failure of islamic fascism. You can't enforce the Dhimmi status on those who exceed you in every measurable way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...

Another of your usual slogans.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel Postpones Khan Al-Ahmar Demolition


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



only a 

 naïve asshole would *constantly* post pictures of little girls....._you ....you......Ffffffool_.







- at least they don't look  like this....(unless they do in other pictures of them you have)..._you ...naïve idiot._


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorist deported from the Great Satan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Interview with an islamic terrorist monster


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Wholesome activities at the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Wholesome activities at the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wholesome activities at the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth
Click to expand...


Hardly a comparison.  The photo you cut and pasted was one used before. 

The photo you stole was from an Israeli independence day celebration. 

Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>


No reason to believe a photoshopped,  unsourced cut and paste is true.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No reason to believe a photoshopped,  unsourced cut and paste is true.
Click to expand...


Typical Tinmore.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Another fascinating spin on reality and facts in order to create some sort of "narrative".  I'm not entirely sure what this new narrative is, but since I've also heard Ali Abunimah spout something similar, I'm assuming it is the new trend in Palestinian Mentality.

I found what I believe to be the source of the meme, although the source is also rather long on emotional appeal and very short on facts.  The problem with this apparent source is that they seem to be playing rather fast and loose with the definitions of common words, like "destroyed", "villages" and "built over". 

The intent of the meme and the new concept seems to be that "return is possible" because the villages are just "empty ground" waiting for their owners to return.  But that is far from the truth.  One village that was "destroyed" now has nearly twice the number of residents that it had when it was supposedly destroyed.  The village is still there (not destroyed) and holds twice the population that it did.  So of course it hasn't been "built over".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nidal, 20, and Heba, 22, are Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, who started their own project "Antica Home" for handmade antiques and crafts.


----------



## Hollie

Not much focus on skills needed for the modern job market at the Hitler Youth Camps. 

But yeah, jumping through burning hoops will get you hired in a competitive technology field.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Baladi Palestine – a celebration of food from land and sea by Joudie Kalla Palestine on a Plate*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Another act of Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Live by the gee-had, suffer the consequences.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel’s ‘Occupation of the American Mind’*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

*A new series of children's books on behalf of the Fatah movement praises terrorists such as Abu Jihad and Dalal al-Mughrabi.*

On October 10, 2008, the Fatah Movement's ideological indoctrination committee in the Gaza Strip announced the publication of a series of new booklets for children called "Story of the Country", which included stories praising the armed struggle of the Fatah movement in Israel prior to the Oslo Accords, Responsible for attacks against Israel, such as Abu Jihad, head of Fatah's military wing and Yasser Arafat's deputy, who was responsible for the murder of dozens of Israeli civilians in the 1970s and 1980s, and Dalal al-Mughrabi, deputy commander of the attack on the coastal road on March 11, 35 Israelis and 71 injured. [1]

Dr. Husam Abu Ajwa, the ideological indoctrination commissioner in the West Gaza district, who conceived and oversaw the book project, stressed in his online newspaper Donya Al-Watan that stories are an important part of the Palestinian national heritage that " On the political map, by perpetuating many of the heroic and sacrificial acts of the Palestinian people against the false Zionist narrative that seeks to destroy and erase the Palestinian identity and essence. "He said that this is" the first initiative of its kind, The largest of the PLO factions. "[2]
According to the report in Dunya Al-Watan, the series includes four books.






The first book, "The Beginning," deals with "the tragedy of the Palestinian people, its Nakba and its expulsion to the refugee camps in the homeland and the diaspora, and tells about the outbreak of the Palestinian revolution and the details of the heroic action of Eilabun." [3] The second book, "The Mermaid," deals with "Dalila al-Mughrabi, the daughter of Jaffa, the beautiful city on the seashore, and her education in the diaspora, for she carried out the qualitative operation on the Palestinian coast and established the Republic of Palestine by raising the flag." The third book, "Loving Fingers," tells the story of a boy from the Western Sector who lost his fingers and that the Fatah movement acted to help him. It turns out that he is one of the heroes of the [RPG] unit, who stood against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and also mentions the heroic war of the Beaufort fortress, some of whose heroes still live. "The fourth book," The Death of General Abu Jihad "Presents the" most significant stations in the life of the Palestinian leader, the engineer of the stone intifada, the martyr Khalil al-Wazir Abu Jihad, his famous Dimona operation.






*Schooled for Jihad - A new series of Palestinian children's books.*


----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


>



P F Tinmore 

Why did you mark this as "funny"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
Click to expand...


Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.
Click to expand...

It isn't the wrong question. You are just ducking.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Why did you mark this as "funny"?
Click to expand...

Because it is part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
Click to expand...



Also 348 in 2017 alone, killing more than 4300 people and wounding 6700.  That's worldwide.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't the wrong question. You are just ducking.
Click to expand...


No.  The narrative you are trying to draw is that suicide bombing in Israel and in areas under her control have reduced and the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?!  The reason for the reduction of suicide bombings in Israel is because Israel has gotten damn good at preventing them.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Why did you mark this as "funny"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it is part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...



So which part are you denying as true?  The murders or the payments?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also 348 in 2017 alone, killing more than 4300 people and wounding 6700.  That's worldwide.
Click to expand...

This is the Israel and Palestine forum.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also 348 in 2017 alone, killing more than 4300 people and wounding 6700.  That's worldwide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the Israel and Palestine forum.
Click to expand...



I am well aware of that.  My point is that suicide bombings occur near daily in the world.  Committed almost exclusively by extremist Muslims.  They are common.  

The question, then, is why they are not common in Israel any longer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't the wrong question. You are just ducking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  The narrative you are trying to draw is that suicide bombing in Israel and in areas under her control have reduced and the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?!  The reason for the reduction of suicide bombings in Israel is because Israel has gotten damn good at preventing them.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?


Indeed.

Hamas is to abandon its use of suicide bombers, who have killed almost 300 Israelis, in any future confrontations with Israel, its activists have told The Observer.

The Islamic group, which leads the Palestinian Authority, says, however, that it may resort to other forms of violence if there is no progress towards Palestinian statehood.

Yihiyeh Musa, a Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said Hamas had moved into a 'new era' which did not require suicide attacks.

'The suicide bombings happened in an exceptional period and they have now stopped,' he said. 'They came to an end as a change of belief.'

Hamas in call to end suicide bombings​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Also 348 in 2017 alone, killing more than 4300 people and wounding 6700.  That's worldwide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the Israel and Palestine forum.
Click to expand...



Also there were 13 attempted suicide bombings in the "West Bank" in 2017.  And 1 in Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't the wrong question. You are just ducking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  The narrative you are trying to draw is that suicide bombing in Israel and in areas under her control have reduced and the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?!  The reason for the reduction of suicide bombings in Israel is because Israel has gotten damn good at preventing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Hamas is to abandon its use of suicide bombers, who have killed almost 300 Israelis, in any future confrontations with Israel, its activists have told The Observer.
> 
> The Islamic group, which leads the Palestinian Authority, says, however, that it may resort to other forms of violence if there is no progress towards Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Yihiyeh Musa, a Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said Hamas had moved into a 'new era' which did not require suicide attacks.
> 
> 'The suicide bombings happened in an exceptional period and they have now stopped,' he said. 'They came to an end as a change of belief.'
> 
> Hamas in call to end suicide bombings​
Click to expand...



Dude, do you hear yourself?!  

Its NOT ACTUALLY progress when you switch out suicide bombings for "other forms of violence".  Its not like Jews are saying, "Oh wow, SO MUCH BETTER getting murdered by insertions of metal blades to the neck and body than it is by shrapnel from nails and metal pellets.  So much more peaceful."


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hamas in call to end suicide bombings​



From the article:

_Many Palestinians believe that suicide bombing damaged their cause, portraying them, not Israel, as the aggressors._


Gee.  Ya think?!

Newsflash:  stabbings and violent "March of Return"s ALSO damage their cause and portray them as the aggressors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many suicide bombings have there been in the last ten years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong question.  The right question would be how many suicide bombings have been prevented by Israel's defensive actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It isn't the wrong question. You are just ducking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  The narrative you are trying to draw is that suicide bombing in Israel and in areas under her control have reduced and the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?!  The reason for the reduction of suicide bombings in Israel is because Israel has gotten damn good at preventing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> the reason for that reduction is because suicide bombers have, I don't know, suddenly seen the light and decided suicide bombing was bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Hamas is to abandon its use of suicide bombers, who have killed almost 300 Israelis, in any future confrontations with Israel, its activists have told The Observer.
> 
> The Islamic group, which leads the Palestinian Authority, says, however, that it may resort to other forms of violence if there is no progress towards Palestinian statehood.
> 
> Yihiyeh Musa, a Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said Hamas had moved into a 'new era' which did not require suicide attacks.
> 
> 'The suicide bombings happened in an exceptional period and they have now stopped,' he said. 'They came to an end as a change of belief.'
> 
> Hamas in call to end suicide bombings​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, do you hear yourself?!
> 
> Its NOT ACTUALLY progress when you switch out suicide bombings for "other forms of violence".  Its not like Jews are saying, "Oh wow, SO MUCH BETTER getting murdered by insertions of metal blades to the neck and body than it is by shrapnel from nails and metal pellets.  So much more peaceful."
Click to expand...

Israel attacks and kills Palestinians all of the time. Why don't you mention those?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas in call to end suicide bombings​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Many Palestinians believe that suicide bombing damaged their cause, portraying them, not Israel, as the aggressors._
> 
> 
> Gee.  Ya think?!
> 
> Newsflash:  stabbings and violent "March of Return"s ALSO damage their cause and portray them as the aggressors.
Click to expand...

Defense is not aggression.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel attacks and kills Palestinians all of the time. Why don't you mention those?



Um. Because we were talking about suicide bombers which is a Muslim thing?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Defense is not aggression.



I'm sorry, but who is attacking whom across the fence between Gaza and Israel?!  

It sounds awfully much like you are saying that if the "defender" uses suicide bombers that is TOTALLY fine, but if the "aggressor" does, not so much.  Which destroys your own argument about Hamas being the "good guys" because they no longer use suicide bombers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Defense is not aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but who is attacking whom across the fence between Gaza and Israel?!
> 
> It sounds awfully much like you are saying that if the "defender" uses suicide bombers that is TOTALLY fine, but if the "aggressor" does, not so much.  Which destroys your own argument about Hamas being the "good guys" because they no longer use suicide bombers.
Click to expand...

Israel shoots at people in Gaza all the time. Even during ceasefires. And there are other attacks like the destruction of property.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Defense is not aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but who is attacking whom across the fence between Gaza and Israel?!
> 
> It sounds awfully much like you are saying that if the "defender" uses suicide bombers that is TOTALLY fine, but if the "aggressor" does, not so much.  Which destroys your own argument about Hamas being the "good guys" because they no longer use suicide bombers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel shoots at people in Gaza all the time. Even during ceasefires. And there are other attacks like the destruction of property.
Click to expand...


Israel shoots people who are, as best as they can determine through all the smoke (literal and figurative) posing a threat.  That's what defense IS.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Defense is not aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but who is attacking whom across the fence between Gaza and Israel?!
> 
> It sounds awfully much like you are saying that if the "defender" uses suicide bombers that is TOTALLY fine, but if the "aggressor" does, not so much.  Which destroys your own argument about Hamas being the "good guys" because they no longer use suicide bombers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel shoots at people in Gaza all the time. Even during ceasefires. And there are other attacks like the destruction of property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel shoots people who are, as best as they can determine through all the smoke (literal and figurative) posing a threat.  That's what defense IS.
Click to expand...

More Israeli bullshit.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli bullshit.



Usual defeat admission of an impotent Jihadist.

*Egyptian Writer Presents Five Steps For Identifying And Handling An Extremist*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usual defeat admission of an impotent Jihadist.
> 
> *Egyptian Writer Presents Five Steps For Identifying And Handling An Extremist*
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usual defeat admission of an impotent Jihadist.
> 
> *Egyptian Writer Presents Five Steps For Identifying And Handling An Extremist*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...

Do I look like my job is to listen to that whining?
Another Jihadi lowlife complaining about facts.


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Jihad: Interviews with Failed Suicide Bombers*
_A must-see but hard to watch video.
Viewer discretion is advised.
_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*ISIS: *






*Palestinians:*


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*

The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.

ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> *Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*
> 
> The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.
> 
> ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.


If you believe that,why did Israel and the US,promote Hamas in the first place,CASHING THEM UP,SUPPORTING THEM AND SUPPYING THEM WEAPONS,you have a lot to answer for Ry...steve


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*
> 
> The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.
> 
> ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that,why did Israel and the US,promote Hamas in the first place,CASHING THEM UP,SUPPORTING THEM AND SUPPYING THEM WEAPONS,you have a lot to answer for Ry...steve
Click to expand...


To get the Jihadis busy fighting each other instead of killing Jews.


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*
> 
> The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.
> 
> ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that,why did Israel and the US,promote Hamas in the first place,CASHING THEM UP,SUPPORTING THEM AND SUPPYING THEM WEAPONS,you have a lot to answer for Ry...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To get the Jihadis busy fighting each other instead of killing Jews.
Click to expand...

Look I have a lot of time for you Ry but stop all this chaotic out of chronological order nonsense,Hamas were never at the time Jihadist,or are today they just want an independent Palestine,if the shoe were the other way round,You would be exactly the same...for some reason you and others are unable to see through others eyes,it really is horrible ignorance to be so myopic,but I do understand to a degree...the dreadful mind altering you have gone through,throughout your life by the heidous teaching of the Cultism of the Zionists

excuse any spelling and grammar errors today Ry,I'm sure there are a few...steve


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> *ISIS: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians:*


Silly post considering your intellect Ry,I could do just the same but showing Israelis but it's immature and ridiculous..st


----------



## Linkiloo

Sad what Hamas has done to its people in Gaza. Not much progress to report.


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ISIS: *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silly post considering your intellect Ry,I could do just the same but showing Israelis but it's immature and ridiculous..st
Click to expand...




theliq said:


> *Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*
> 
> The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.
> 
> ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.



The "independent Palestine" talked about is nothing but a Caliphate, this is what Hamas is promoting.

I suggest You go try sell that bs to Egypt, that has been jamming Gaza communications for weeks while hunting for Palestinian ISIS terrorists.


----------



## Mindful

Cheshvan 14 


In 1917, the British government gave final approval for the Balfour Declaration, calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in historic Israel. The declaration took the form of a letter from Arthur Balfour, British Foreign Secretary, to Lord Rothschild, who had once been a member of the British Parliament. In 1922, the United States Congress formally endorsed the Balfour Declaration. In the ensuing decades, the British would slowly whittle away at their commitment -- first lopping off 80 percent of the land east of the Jordan River to create the Kingdom of Transjordan (now Jordan), and then restricting Jewish immigration and rights to purchase land to the west of the Jordan River. The volatility of the situation ultimately forced the British to withdraw from the region in 1948.


Chabad.


----------



## member

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas Training ISIS Terrorists in Gaza*
> 
> The newly-exposed alliance between ISIS and Hamas should not come as a surprise to anyone. Both of these Islamist groups not only subscribe to the same doctrine of global Jihad, but are offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood movement that first started in Egypt around 1920s. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden also belonged to the same theological school of thought.
> 
> ISIS activities are not limited to Syria and Iraq anymore. The terrorist group has extended its reach to North Africa and now operating in Libya and in the Egyptian peninsula of Sinai.
> 
> 
> 
> If you believe that,why did Israel and the US,promote Hamas in the first place,CASHING THEM UP,SUPPORTING THEM AND SUPPYING THEM WEAPONS,you have a lot to answer for Ry...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To get the Jihadis busy fighting each other instead of killing Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look I have a lot of time for you Ry but stop all this chaotic out of chronological order nonsense,Hamas were never at the time Jihadist,or are today they just want an independent Palestine,if the shoe were the other way round,You would be exactly the same...for some reason you and others are unable to see through others eyes,it really is horrible ignorance to be so myopic,but I do understand to a degree...the dreadful mind altering you have gone through,throughout your life by the heidous teaching of the Cultism of the Zionists
> 
> excuse any spelling and grammar errors today Ry,I'm sure there are a few...steve
Click to expand...




 *"Look I have a lot of time for you Ry,  but stop all this chaotic out of chronological order nonsense,Hamas were never at the time Jihadist,or are today* 

 *- they just want an independent Palestine..."*






_what a comedian...funneeeee. "*Hamas were never at the time Jihadist,or are today..."*_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Bethlehem mayor Anton Salman on Monday said that the Israeli occupation authorities have seized about 22,000 dunums of Bethlehem lands, which constitute 87% of the province's area.

Read more at 
https://english.palinfo.com/37232


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Ah.  More proof that Jews are evil.  Here we have a soldier.  And a woman with a small child.  The HORROR!


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




The walk of shame.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


>



If all refugees from WWII were considered by the same rules as the Arab Palestinians there would be 525 million additional and never ending refugees in the world.  

Not to mention 8 million Jewish refugees in "need" of services.


----------



## Shusha

And let's consider another thing.  If people are considered refugees in all their generations then there are 16 million Jews in the world, all of whom are refugees.


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If all refugees from WWII were considered by the same rules as the Arab Palestinians there would be 525 million additional and never ending refugees in the world.
> 
> Not to mention 8 million Jewish refugees in "need" of services.
Click to expand...


Eyup. UNRWA has become nothing more than an entitlement program exploited by, and for the sole use of islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Hollie said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If all refugees from WWII were considered by the same rules as the Arab Palestinians there would be 525 million additional and never ending refugees in the world.
> 
> Not to mention 8 million Jewish refugees in "need" of services.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eyup. UNRWA has become nothing more than an entitlement program exploited by, and for the sole use of islamic terrorists.
Click to expand...


Yep.  UNRWA needs to be put to sleep and all real refugees (according to the standard the rest of the world uses) should be transferred to UNHCR.

But I'll add one other thing.  I don't think UNRWA is an entitlement program exploited by Arab Muslims so much as an entitlement program created and exploited by opposition to Jews.  Because ... Jews.  I think that is the source of their power.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> Cheshvan 14
> 
> 
> In 1917, the British government gave final approval for the Balfour Declaration, calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in historic Israel. The declaration took the form of a letter from Arthur Balfour, British Foreign Secretary, to Lord Rothschild, who had once been a member of the British Parliament. In 1922, the United States Congress formally endorsed the Balfour Declaration. In the ensuing decades, the British would slowly whittle away at their commitment -- first lopping off 80 percent of the land east of the Jordan River to create the Kingdom of Transjordan (now Jordan), and then restricting Jewish immigration and rights to purchase land to the west of the Jordan River. The volatility of the situation ultimately forced the British to withdraw from the region in 1948.
> 
> 
> Chabad.


Balfour was a Zionist,Rothchild was a Zionist Mindy...I need say NO MORE...steve


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



If that money was given to “ Palestine “ I doubt if he would object.


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheshvan 14
> 
> 
> In 1917, the British government gave final approval for the Balfour Declaration, calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in historic Israel. The declaration took the form of a letter from Arthur Balfour, British Foreign Secretary, to Lord Rothschild, who had once been a member of the British Parliament. In 1922, the United States Congress formally endorsed the Balfour Declaration. In the ensuing decades, the British would slowly whittle away at their commitment -- first lopping off 80 percent of the land east of the Jordan River to create the Kingdom of Transjordan (now Jordan), and then restricting Jewish immigration and rights to purchase land to the west of the Jordan River. The volatility of the situation ultimately forced the British to withdraw from the region in 1948.
> 
> 
> Chabad.
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour was a Zionist,Rothchild was a Zionist Mindy...I need say NO MORE...steve
Click to expand...


That's a relief.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheshvan 14
> 
> 
> 
> In 1917, the British government gave final approval for the Balfour Declaration, calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in historic Israel. The declaration took the form of a letter from Arthur Balfour, British Foreign Secretary, to Lord Rothschild, who had once been a member of the British Parliament. In 1922, the United States Congress formally endorsed the Balfour Declaration. In the ensuing decades, the British would slowly whittle away at their commitment -- first lopping off 80 percent of the land east of the Jordan River to create the Kingdom of Transjordan (now Jordan), and then restricting Jewish immigration and rights to purchase land to the west of the Jordan River. The volatility of the situation ultimately forced the British to withdraw from the region in 1948.
> 
> 
> Chabad.
> 
> 
> 
> Balfour was a Zionist,Rothchild was a Zionist Mindy...I need say NO MORE...steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a relief.[/QUOTE
> 
> To Jews and Palestinians >>>>>>>>>SOON FORWArd
> I am but a man from a distant land
> I can see clearly through your shifting sand
> 
> There is no need for slight of hand
> to bring peace to the Holy Land
> 
> to use your might
> it blinds your sight
> 
> to make things right
> there is no need to fight
> 
> you two are much the same
> no need to kill and maim
> 
> NO NEED TO TOUGHEN
> FOR YOU ARE COUSIN
> 
> time to stop the rot, both lift up your hearts
> and cease looking back,you both are not going that way
> 
> 
> AS I ALWAYS SAY
> SOON FORWARD TODAY.
> 
> SOON FORWARD TO REDEMPTION DAY,TOGETHER
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's Mass Killings at the Gaza Border w/ Yousef Munayyer*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Belgium ends funding for Palestinian schools over honoring of terrorist


----------



## Andylusion

Hollie said:


> Belgium ends funding for Palestinian schools over honoring of terrorist



Funny how long it takes the rest of the world to figure out what we've known for ages.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



fighting the idf with a tennis racket ? if it's a real picture....it's hilarious [that tennis racket] , VERY SAD, pathetic and ridiculous....._.t.a.h.  _


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel sells Palestinian refugee property - Adalah*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



It makes no sense for you to post this.  The implication is that "wanting the whole pie" is a morally incorrect stand.  And yet that is EXACTLY the stand of the majority of Palestinians and yourself.  Its hypocrisy, pure and simple


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes no sense for you to post this.  The implication is that "wanting the whole pie" is a morally incorrect stand.  And yet that is EXACTLY the stand of the majority of Palestinians and yourself.  Its hypocrisy, pure and simple
Click to expand...

The Palestinians want all of Palestine?

That is weird. How dare they?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes no sense for you to post this.  The implication is that "wanting the whole pie" is a morally incorrect stand.  And yet that is EXACTLY the stand of the majority of Palestinians and yourself.  Its hypocrisy, pure and simple
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians want all of Palestine?
> 
> That is weird. How dare they?
Click to expand...


The Jewish people want all of their own homeland?

That is weird.  How dare they?

Still hypocrisy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian victim Mo’men Ibrahim Abu Eyada (15), murdered by IOF in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*PA TV sermon: Hitler was sent by Allah to punish the Jews for their evil behavior*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian victim Mo’men Ibrahim Abu Eyada (15), murdered by IOF in Gaza.




Victim of abusive parents and an abusive culture which should have protected him and kept him away from what is well known to be a war zone.  Victim of the sort of societal pressure and cultural mentality which demands at least presence and often participation in violent and extreme acts of "protest" which serve no purpose but to create dead children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Adalah Attorney Suhad Bishara on BBC World News: Gaza protests & Israeli use of live fire*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Full Interview with Palestinian Peace Activist Iyad Burnat*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Adalah Attorney Suhad Bishara on BBC World News: Gaza protests & Israeli use of live fire*
> 
> **




I really struggle to understand how people can spout such obvious lies and expect to be believed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Ahhh, the Hamas lady posts again.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


That cover photo was taken somewhere in eastern Europe.

BTW, stooge Kemp gets his paycheck from an Israeli propaganda organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That cover photo was taken somewhere in eastern Europe.
> 
> BTW, stooge Kemp gets his paycheck from an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...


You do love your conspiracy theories.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That cover photo was taken somewhere in eastern Europe.
> 
> BTW, stooge Kemp gets his paycheck from an Israeli propaganda organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do love your conspiracy theories.[/Quote/] CYPRUS to be precise
Click to expand...


----------



## theliq

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That cover photo was taken somewhere in eastern Europe.
> 
> BTW, stooge Kemp gets his paycheck from an Israeli propaganda organization.
Click to expand...

CYPRUS to be precise...Kemp is ZIONIST STOOGE


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (PSC) marches to Parliament (15 May 2018)*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamic terrorist solidarity campaign


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*BDS: central to Palestine solidarity - Panel discussion - Sydney BDS conference 2017*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Breeding psychopaths - one Arab-Moslem Death Cultist at a time.
*


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Misfits - Breeding Since 632 CE






*


----------



## Hollie

*Start Them Young In Gee-had. The Ways of The Degenerates.





*


----------



## Hollie

*Ready For Breeding the Next Generation of Death Cultists 





*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti at the Oireachtas Foreign Affairs Committee (10/5/18)*

**


----------



## Hollie

*The Hitler Youth - Next Generation.





*


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Terrorist International Airlines





*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> *The Hitler Youth - Next Generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I changed my mind. I definitely believe in “ Right of Return “.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>






 very pretty.... luckily it's islam light for them.....




...and not islam:  











or islam: 

 











....but it 

  could happen. there could be a 


_"changing of the guard"_ at any time....


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Fatah Celebrates 52nd Anniversary of First Terror Attack

Thursday, 05 January 2017 | Fatah, the political party led by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, celebrated the 52nd anniversary of its first attack against Israel last week in a series of Facebook posts glorifying Palestinian terrorists.

The party’s official Facebook page commemorated the January 1, 1965 attack by “parading some of the movement’s role models, among them several ‘Martyrs,’ all of whom were either murderers or heads of murderous terror organizations,” Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) reported.

The page shared a banner that describes “a real Palestinian” as someone who is “self-sacrificing fighter.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi chats with Bassem Tamimi*


----------



## Hollie

*The Islamic Death Cult. Abusing Children Since 632 CE





*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Traditions of Liberation Education - Professor Karma Nabulsi (Oxford University)*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Traditions of the Death Cult gee-had


*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




I am VERY tired of you posting this same video over and over and over.  

The people in Gaza have all the freedom in the world to build their nation any way they want it to be.  The "March of Return" is a perfect example of them exercising that very freedom.  They already have freedom.  Its that simple.  

What they really want is the ability to "resist" (aka be violent) while experiencing no consequences.  Not.  Going.  To.  Happen.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Terror Attacks By Palestinian Children On the Rise


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




*Because Islamic terrorism carries consequences.*


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Paycheck for Terrorism: $5,300 for Suicide Attack


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Another Muhammud.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*My friend was brutally MURDERED today by an Islamic terrorist*


----------



## rylah

*Parents celebrate terrorist son’s “Martyrdom” as “wedding”
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Hope in the Shadow of the Wall" w/Dr. Mitri Raheb - July 24, 2018*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
Click to expand...


My God! Going back now to 1916?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

More proof that we need a stupid post button.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
Click to expand...


I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.  
  Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.


Not true.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Another Antisemitism Panel.


*


----------



## rylah

*Palestinians pushing for Sharia Law in America*
**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh look.  My favourite hypocrisy video where Arab immigrants are Palestinians with all the rights but Jewish immigrants (actually returnees) are "foreign colonial settlers" even though they immigrated to the same place at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> My God! Going back now to 1916?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
Click to expand...

Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Carmen Perez & Linda Sarsour Discuss Criminal Justice Reform And More*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, the world is a very different place "today" than it was _alla_ 1916.   And it has evolved ever so much...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The failure of the Arab Palestinian to adapt and evolve → will find themselves going the way of the Neandertals.  Already they are a failed state; having been unable to erect a proper government or establish the necessary institutions and infrastructure necessary for success → in the 21st Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
Click to expand...


When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More proof that we need a stupid post button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
Click to expand...

They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek - A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! More proof we didn’t hear about “ International Law “ or “ Right of Return” Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> Haven’t seen the You Tube Video of Hasidic Jews stating Israel has no right to exist lately.When you find that button, please stamp your post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget that Gaza, the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were legally declared to be part of Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
Click to expand...

Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
Click to expand...


You’re right; The Arabs did not initiate any Wars after May 14, 1948.  
 Remember YOUR You Tube Video; Hasidic Jews saying Israel had no right to exist period! Nothing to do with “ brutality “ or anything else


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Oopsies! An islamic terrorist "work accident", also known as islamic premature as'plodin'.

Gee-had denied, chumps.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is actually a timeline question.



P F Tinmore said:


> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?


*(COMMENT)*

Between 1950 and 1988, the West Bank was "Sovereign Jordanian Territory."  And no matter what the rest of the world might think about it, between 1949 and 1967, the Jordanian Sovereignty was strictly enforced by Jordan.

Between 1967 and July 1988, the West Bank was Israeli Occupied Jordanian Territory.  It was in August 1988 that the Jordanians forfeited control and sovereignty.  That left the West Bank in the hands of the Israelis.  There was no Palestinian Government until November 1988.

The Gaza Strip was Egyptian Military Governorship from 1949 → until the 1967 War. 

*( ∑ )*

Remember, the name "Palestine" means something entirely different than that of a self-governing institution govern by and exercising sovereign power by → Arab Palestinians. 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Jews have a longer presence in the land than anyone,
It's one of the most documented connections between a land and a nation in human history.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I have posted MANY times links that prove my statement to be true and yours false. Push that STUPID button!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
Click to expand...


It all started with Arab pogroms,
before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is actually a timeline question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between 1950 and 1988, the West Bank was "Sovereign Jordanian Territory."  And no matter what the rest of the world might think about it, between 1949 and 1967, the Jordanian Sovereignty was strictly enforced by Jordan.
> 
> Between 1967 and July 1988, the West Bank was Israeli Occupied Jordanian Territory.  It was in August 1988 that the Jordanians forfeited control and sovereignty.  That left the West Bank in the hands of the Israelis.  There was no Palestinian Government until November 1988.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was Egyptian Military Governorship from 1949 → until the 1967 War.
> 
> *( ∑ )*
> 
> Remember, the name "Palestine" means something entirely different than that of a self-governing institution govern by and exercising sovereign power by → Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Where did you get all that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> When they were OFFICIALLY part of Jordan and Egypt somehow the words “ occupation “ and “ International Law “ were never mentioned. Get that button out!!
> 
> 
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


It all started with Arab pogroms,
what's so hard to understand?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is actually a timeline question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are they called occupied Palestinian territory and not occupied Egyptian or Jordanian territory?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Between 1950 and 1988, the West Bank was "Sovereign Jordanian Territory."  And no matter what the rest of the world might think about it, between 1949 and 1967, the Jordanian Sovereignty was strictly enforced by Jordan.
> 
> Between 1967 and July 1988, the West Bank was Israeli Occupied Jordanian Territory.  It was in August 1988 that the Jordanians forfeited control and sovereignty.  That left the West Bank in the hands of the Israelis.  There was no Palestinian Government until November 1988.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was Egyptian Military Governorship from 1949 → until the 1967 War.
> 
> *( ∑ )*
> 
> Remember, the name "Palestine" means something entirely different than that of a self-governing institution govern by and exercising sovereign power by → Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I disagree with this.  Under what pretense did the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan have sovereign territory OUTSIDE its legally defined boundaries as established in Mandate documents?  

The territory in question (the remainder of Palestine) was determined, by the Allied Powers who had control for the dispensation of the territories on behalf of those working to achieve independence and self-determination, to come under the sovereignty of the Jewish people.  This independence was achieved in 1948 when the State of Israel was declared and fulfilled the normative requirements for Statehood. 

Therefore, between 1948 and 1967 the "West Bank" was Israeli territory under the effective control of Jordan.  It was Israeli territory occupied by Jordan.  Between 1967 and 1988 it was Israeli territory under the military control of Israel.  In 1988, Jordan relinquished control and ceded all claims (which it never had to begin with), thus bringing the "West Bank" back to full Israeli sovereignty.  And thus the peace agreement between them shows a border between Jordan and Israel.

In November 1988, the State of Palestine was declared but it had not yet fulfilled the requirements for Statehood (one could argue that it still has not).  In particular, it had no territory under its control.  It was the Oslo Accords which finally delineated territory specifically to the the emerging State of Palestine in Areas A, B and Gaza.  Area C was left as disputed territory, to be finalized in a peace agreement between Israel and the eventual State of Palestine.  

The way I see it, today, Israel has not formally ceded any territory and all of Mandatory Palestine, except Jordan, legally falls under Israel's sovereignty, pending the emergence of a State of Palestine and a peace agreement, though Israel certainly seems to have declared her intent to cede a portion of her territory to that emerging State.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?
Click to expand...


The islamic settler colonial project.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?
Click to expand...


*Nineteenth century*
The Damascus affair was an accusation of ritual murder and a blood libel against Jews in Damascus in 1840. On February 5, 1840, Franciscan Capuchin friar Father Thomas and his Greek servant were reported missing, never to be seen again. The Turkish governor and the French consul Ratti-Menton believed accusations of ritual murder and blood libel, as the alleged murder occurred before the Jewish Passover. An investigation was staged, and Solomon Negrin, a Jewish barber, confessed under torture and accused other Jews. Two other Jews died under torture, and one (Moses Abulafia) converted to Islam to escape torture. More arrests and atrocities followed, culminating in 63 Jewish children being held hostage and mob attacks on Jewish communities throughout the Middle East. International outrage led to Ibrahim Pasha in Egypt ordering an investigation. Negotiations in Alexandria eventually secured the unconditional release and recognition of innocence of the nine prisoners still remaining alive (out of thirteen). Later in Constantinople, Moses Montefiore (leader of the British Jewish community) persuaded Sultan Abdülmecid I to issue a firman(edict) intended to halt the spread of blood libel accusations in the Ottoman Empire:

... and for the love we bear to our subjects, we cannot permit the Jewish nation, whose innocence for the crime alleged against them is evident, to be worried and tormented as a consequence of accusations which have not the least foundation in truth....

Nevertheless, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).[17]


Zionism is the Jewish liberation movement, that was actually initiated as a response to Arab pogroms in the 19th century middle east.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were not brutal, settler colonial occupations like Israel. Both actually tried to benefit the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
Click to expand...


Did you see his You Tube Video in which the Hasidic declared Israel is Shouldn’t Exist? THAT says it All !!!


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian lame answer. Notice how “ International Law” or “ occupation “ is not even mentioned?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see his You Tube Video in which the Hasidic declared Israel is Shouldn’t Exist? THAT says it All !!!
Click to expand...


Yes, and I've seen his video where Gazans were calling their youth to go kill Jews and die together.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you see his You Tube Video in which the Hasidic declared Israel is Shouldn’t Exist? THAT says it All !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, and I've seen his video where Gazans were calling their youth to go kill Jews and die together.
Click to expand...



Saw that one also. Yet we’re supposed to bemoan Palestinians who are killed??


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps they did not say it but Israel was constantly bitching about Palestinian attacks in the decades following 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nineteenth century*
> The Damascus affair was an accusation of ritual murder and a blood libel against Jews in Damascus in 1840. On February 5, 1840, Franciscan Capuchin friar Father Thomas and his Greek servant were reported missing, never to be seen again. The Turkish governor and the French consul Ratti-Menton believed accusations of ritual murder and blood libel, as the alleged murder occurred before the Jewish Passover. An investigation was staged, and Solomon Negrin, a Jewish barber, confessed under torture and accused other Jews. Two other Jews died under torture, and one (Moses Abulafia) converted to Islam to escape torture. More arrests and atrocities followed, culminating in 63 Jewish children being held hostage and mob attacks on Jewish communities throughout the Middle East. International outrage led to Ibrahim Pasha in Egypt ordering an investigation. Negotiations in Alexandria eventually secured the unconditional release and recognition of innocence of the nine prisoners still remaining alive (out of thirteen). Later in Constantinople, Moses Montefiore (leader of the British Jewish community) persuaded Sultan Abdülmecid I to issue a firman(edict) intended to halt the spread of blood libel accusations in the Ottoman Empire:
> 
> ... and for the love we bear to our subjects, we cannot permit the Jewish nation, whose innocence for the crime alleged against them is evident, to be worried and tormented as a consequence of accusations which have not the least foundation in truth....
> 
> Nevertheless, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).[17]
> 
> 
> Zionism is the Jewish liberation movement, that was actually initiated as a response to Arab pogroms in the 19th century middle east.
Click to expand...

No context?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> before 1948 of after by its' nature a continuation of the same attack,
> and that is what sparked Zionism in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nineteenth century*
> The Damascus affair was an accusation of ritual murder and a blood libel against Jews in Damascus in 1840. On February 5, 1840, Franciscan Capuchin friar Father Thomas and his Greek servant were reported missing, never to be seen again. The Turkish governor and the French consul Ratti-Menton believed accusations of ritual murder and blood libel, as the alleged murder occurred before the Jewish Passover. An investigation was staged, and Solomon Negrin, a Jewish barber, confessed under torture and accused other Jews. Two other Jews died under torture, and one (Moses Abulafia) converted to Islam to escape torture. More arrests and atrocities followed, culminating in 63 Jewish children being held hostage and mob attacks on Jewish communities throughout the Middle East. International outrage led to Ibrahim Pasha in Egypt ordering an investigation. Negotiations in Alexandria eventually secured the unconditional release and recognition of innocence of the nine prisoners still remaining alive (out of thirteen). Later in Constantinople, Moses Montefiore (leader of the British Jewish community) persuaded Sultan Abdülmecid I to issue a firman(edict) intended to halt the spread of blood libel accusations in the Ottoman Empire:
> 
> ... and for the love we bear to our subjects, we cannot permit the Jewish nation, whose innocence for the crime alleged against them is evident, to be worried and tormented as a consequence of accusations which have not the least foundation in truth....
> 
> Nevertheless, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).[17]
> 
> 
> Zionism is the Jewish liberation movement, that was actually initiated as a response to Arab pogroms in the 19th century middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No context?
Click to expand...


The same Passover blood libel used today by the Palestinian ilk.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It all started with Arab pogroms,
> what's so hard to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What programs were there before the Zionist settler colonial project?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nineteenth century*
> The Damascus affair was an accusation of ritual murder and a blood libel against Jews in Damascus in 1840. On February 5, 1840, Franciscan Capuchin friar Father Thomas and his Greek servant were reported missing, never to be seen again. The Turkish governor and the French consul Ratti-Menton believed accusations of ritual murder and blood libel, as the alleged murder occurred before the Jewish Passover. An investigation was staged, and Solomon Negrin, a Jewish barber, confessed under torture and accused other Jews. Two other Jews died under torture, and one (Moses Abulafia) converted to Islam to escape torture. More arrests and atrocities followed, culminating in 63 Jewish children being held hostage and mob attacks on Jewish communities throughout the Middle East. International outrage led to Ibrahim Pasha in Egypt ordering an investigation. Negotiations in Alexandria eventually secured the unconditional release and recognition of innocence of the nine prisoners still remaining alive (out of thirteen). Later in Constantinople, Moses Montefiore (leader of the British Jewish community) persuaded Sultan Abdülmecid I to issue a firman(edict) intended to halt the spread of blood libel accusations in the Ottoman Empire:
> 
> ... and for the love we bear to our subjects, we cannot permit the Jewish nation, whose innocence for the crime alleged against them is evident, to be worried and tormented as a consequence of accusations which have not the least foundation in truth....
> 
> Nevertheless, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).[17]
> 
> 
> Zionism is the Jewish liberation movement, that was actually initiated as a response to Arab pogroms in the 19th century middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No context?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same Passover blood libel used today by the Palestinian ilk.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that on any of the sites I visit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Is this an infomercial for the Islamic space program?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem terrorists. Bring the joy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



I see an* Iranian flag *on the left under the red triangle.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








No Peace can exist with Nazi Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



yemen, syria......

well....

 what about these 2 backward, 3rd world barbaric islamic shitholes....Jesus Christ Almighty........

it's israel's [....and the rest of the WORLD*z*] fault that they practice evil and they are what they are in present day 21st century?  is it the "rest of the world*z*" fault that syria dabbled in genocide, barrel bombing and used chemical weapons on their people....?  it's the "rest of the world*z*" fault that YEMEN was taken over by terrorists because there is no real government in place except for 7th century islamic minds?  it's the "rest of the world*z*" fault terrorists are wrecking havoc in these two countries because of ...no real people in charge?


can you help a laymen out -- the cartoon with syria and yemen....why ?  I don't get what it has to do with "the conflict," israel, hamas, abbass, the gaza slip, the west bank, your little girl pictures ...._WHAT_ ?













 





one lump or two?


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



wow, pretty "west" of him......having fun, surfing like a californian....i bet he feels free 

 ............unlike the non-surfers hanging back.....enjoying the ocean air and what they can see thru their slits......






:


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Victory! Lawsuit Against SFSU and Abdulhadi Dismissed*
October 30, 2018







 \

*Federal Judge Permanently Throws Out Lawfare Project’s Case Against Professor Rabab Abdulhadi and San Francisco State University *
San Francisco – Yesterday, a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit against Professor Rabab Abdulhadi and San Francisco State University (SFSU) that had sought to compel the university to restrict the speech of students and faculty who support Palestinian freedom.

The case, _Mandel v. Board of Trustees_, was first filed in June 2017 by the Lawfare Project, a right-wing anti-Palestinian organization with an explicit plan to “inflict massive punishments” against critics of Israel. Having dismissed an earlier version of the lawsuit in March 2018, Judge William Orrick III this time dismissed the case with prejudice, meaning the lawsuit cannot be filed again.

The lawsuit is part of a years-long campaign of harassment against campus activists and Abdulhadi, an outspoken scholar and advocate for justice in and for Palestine.

“The unfounded and malicious nature of this bogus suit against Dr. Abdulhadi is now clear for all to see. This has disrupted nearly two years of her life and her work for justice in Palestine, which is the purpose of ‘lawfare,’” explained Abdulhadi’s attorney, Mark Kleiman.


----------



## Hollie

On Many Campuses, Hate is Spelled SJP

*On Many Campuses, Hate is Spelled SJP*

They advocate for Israel’s destruction, admire terrorists, and are making Jewish students feel unsafe on campuses across the country. They’re Students for Justice in Palestine—and they’re a huge problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> On Many Campuses, Hate is Spelled SJP
> 
> *On Many Campuses, Hate is Spelled SJP*
> 
> They advocate for Israel’s destruction, admire terrorists, and are making Jewish students feel unsafe on campuses across the country. They’re Students for Justice in Palestine—and they’re a huge problem.


They tried to sell that crap in the above case.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



So not very many then.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



  They refuse to recognize Israel’s Right to Exist, pledge to liberate “ All of Palestine “ and they want “ Right of Return?”


----------



## Hollie

Many may not know this but "right of return" translates from the traditional Arabic as "Kill the Jews". Although, I could be wrong about that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Just another day in the Death Cult.

"Peaceful Protests"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>













​

















​




 why _ain't_ they at the gaza border flying kites and.....




following *violent* protest _"*orders*"_ from their stupid terrorist government ? ...instead looking all west-like....playing MUSIC and enjoying themselves ?  how come those girls and boys at the border (tossing molotov cocktails, buring tires, lighting barbed-wire fences on fire, flying bomb-kites) _AIN'T_ in a band too, like your folks here? _what's their problem?_ 













​

#1  Monster voice of all time !






#1 spooky voice of all time.....





#1 american family and their pet, Spot !










​


​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*First-Nation Ryan Bellrose - Indigenous Rights of the Jewish people*


----------



## rylah

*Report: Abbas issued a decision of the Council of Ministers to increase total imported vehicle prices by 100% next year.*






Shehab Agency


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



“ Palestine “ doesn’t exist and never will.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Global Issues Speaker Series: Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Humanity on the Move | Susan Akram*

**


----------



## Hollie

Subhumans on the gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh

*


----------



## Hollie

*Gee-had Al-Death Cultist



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Leila Al Marayati *

**


----------



## Hollie

*Friends of the Death Cult 



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 DLPP Winner in Fiction Hala Alyan*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Winners of the Death Cult Darwin Award

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

_*Singing “They Cut My Welfare” blues. 

*_


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



“Negotiated settlement?”   What does that mean?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## Hollie

*The Role of Arab-Moslem Liberation Theology - Liberate the Body Parts of Those in the Competing Islamist Terrorist Organization From Their Torsos


*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **




He speaks of Jerusalem being under “ International Control?”  Is that why the Israelis were denied Rights to their Religious Sites before 1967 and the PLO just recently stated the Israelis have NO rights to the Western Wall? Keep posting!!!


----------



## RoccoR

•   P F Tinmore, member: 21837

There is no context to this photo.



P F Tinmore said:


>


This photo could easily be recording a case of the wheelchair-bound perpetrator charging the Border Police Officer.

We just don't know*!*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He speaks of Jerusalem being under “ International Control?”  Is that why the Israelis were denied Rights to their Religious Sites before 1967 and the PLO just recently stated the Israelis have NO rights to the Western Wall? Keep posting!!!
Click to expand...

Before Israel the Jews had access to the Western wall.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> •   P F Tinmore, member: 21837
> 
> There is no context to this photo.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This photo could easily be recording a case of the wheelchair-bound perpetrator charging the Border Police Officer.
> 
> We just don't know*!*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice speculation, but there is a video of the incident.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He speaks of Jerusalem being under “ International Control?”  Is that why the Israelis were denied Rights to their Religious Sites before 1967 and the PLO just recently stated the Israelis have NO rights to the Western Wall? Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel the Jews had access to the Western wall.
Click to expand...


Under Muslim rule, only Sephardic Jews had limited access, and the place was made into a garbage dump.No Jew was allowed into the Cave of Patriarchs as well.

Israel opened Jerusalem to the whole world, not just Jews.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **



If the conflict is not religious, as You keep repeating, how come there's a whole theology dedicated to opposing a Jewish country?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He speaks of Jerusalem being under “ International Control?”  Is that why the Israelis were denied Rights to their Religious Sites before 1967 and the PLO just recently stated the Israelis have NO rights to the Western Wall? Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel the Jews had access to the Western wall.
Click to expand...



Before israel, Jews (and other non-Islamics), were relegated to second class status as dhimmis in the wondrous Islamist social order.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Role of Palestinian Liberation Theology: A Conversation with Reverend Naim Ateek*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He speaks of Jerusalem being under “ International Control?”  Is that why the Israelis were denied Rights to their Religious Sites before 1967 and the PLO just recently stated the Israelis have NO rights to the Western Wall? Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Before Israel the Jews had access to the Western wall.
Click to expand...


So what? Under “ International Law” they were supposed to have it after 1948 but of course were denied.  No comment about the RECENT statement of the PLO stating that the Jews will not have access to it.   Not surprised.


Jews have no right to Western Wall, PA 'study' says


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Life of an Arab-Moslem teenager


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Israel Speaks to the Islamic Terrorists


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Islamic terrorist tribes at war.

*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen

US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hope they keep on demanding it


https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.amp...&cap=swipe,navigateTo,cid,fragment,replaceUrl


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen
> 
> US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report


So?

This will make Trump look more like an ass to the rest of the world than he does now.


----------



## Hollie

Changing US Policy on Islamic Terrorist Dictators.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen
> 
> US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This will make Trump look more like an ass to the rest of the world than he does now.
Click to expand...


No. It will reflect a reality that Islamic terrorists have never come to terms with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen
> 
> US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This will make Trump look more like an ass to the rest of the world than he does now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. It will reflect a reality that Islamic terrorists have never come to terms with.
Click to expand...

Oh my, another terrorist card.

Is name calling all you got?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen
> 
> US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This will make Trump look more like an ass to the rest of the world than he does now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. It will reflect a reality that Islamic terrorists have never come to terms with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, another terrorist card.
> 
> Is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...


Oh, my. Your usual cut and paste slogans when you’re out of YouTube videos. 

Is retreating in defeat all you got?   <——— rhetorical question, obviously.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The U.S. does not support " Right of Return" and that will never happen
> 
> US set to announce it rejects Palestinian ‘right of return’ — TV report
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> This will make Trump look more like an ass to the rest of the world than he does now.
Click to expand...



 Trump refusing to insist that Israel allow “ Right of Return “ knowing that the end result will be an annex to the Palestinian State, not seeing anything from the Palestinians that they intend to “ live in peace with their Neighbors”, and not accepting the Palestinians recent Racist Statement that Jews were NOT permitted at the Western Wall makes him an a
Ass?


----------



## rylah

*No burial ceremony for Arabs suspected of selling property to Jews.*
The coffin of one of those killed in an accident in Petzael was prevented from entering the Al-Aqsa Mosque. This is due to the suspicion that he was involved in the sale of property in the Old City to Jews. In response, it was decided to deny his family a burial ceremony. A confrontation developed between the family of the deceased and the opponents.

Kann News twitter - video


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Arabic Hour interviews Amahl Bishara*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yea right....  It just means you believe that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.   Yet you talk about the “Two State Solution?”  KEEP POSTING!!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Diana Buttu and Gideon Levy on Israeli Settlements, Kerry, Military Aid and End of Two States*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Diana Buttu and Gideon Levy on Israeli Settlements, Kerry, Military Aid and End of Two States*



Two, competing mini-caliphates (Islamic terrorist "States") of Hamas'istan an Fatah'istan are not going to happen.


----------



## Hollie

*Failure


*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,

I will admit, I see statements quite frequently that are so similar that I cannot distinguish between anti-Semitism and (so-called) anti-Zionism.

I think of Zionism as a liberation movement, just as the Palestine Liberation Organization was once a true "liberation movement.   And that is the principle difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism; and even anti-Israeli Movements.

✪  Anti-Zionism is about _(my opinion)_ is not about religion.  It is about the way anti-Zionist Advocates attempt to  delegitimize Israel and deny Jews their rights (an attempt to deny self-determination). 

✪ Anti-semitism is simply furthering hostility and prejudice against any Jew - all Jews.

✪  Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel _(the nation and the people)_ and by association, anyone that supports or defends Israel; politically, economically, commercially, militarily and diplomatically.​


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea right....  It just means you believe that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.   Yet you talk about the “Two State Solution?”  KEEP POSTING!!!!!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

All things are possible; even a Two-State Solution as an outcome of the conflict.  But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  As long as the Arab Palestinian holds this position and aggravates or intentionally retards a possible peaceful solution → so will the ultimate outcome be less favorable to them as time goes on.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will admit, I see statements quite frequently that are so similar that I cannot distinguish between anti-Semitism and (so-called) anti-Zionism.
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement, just as the Palestine Liberation Organization was once a true "liberation movement.   And that is the principle difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism; and even anti-Israeli Movements.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Zionism is about _(my opinion)_ is not about religion.  It is about the way anti-Zionist Advocates attempt to  delegitimize Israel and deny Jews their rights (an attempt to deny self-determination).
> 
> ✪ Anti-semitism is simply furthering hostility and prejudice against any Jew - all Jews.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel _(the nation and the people)_ and by association, anyone that supports or defends Israel; politically, economically, commercially, militarily and diplomatically.​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea right....  It just means you believe that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.   Yet you talk about the “Two State Solution?”  KEEP POSTING!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All things are possible; even a Two-State Solution as an outcome of the conflict.  But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  As long as the Arab Palestinian holds this position and aggravates or intentionally retards a possible peaceful solution → so will the ultimate outcome be less favorable to them as time goes on.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I have posted many You Tube Videos in which they declare their Goal is to Liberate ALL Of “ Palestine” to 48 yet they HONESTLY expect “ Right of Return?”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,

Yes, that is a major problem stemming from the fact that the Arab Palestinians have never had a "unified" voice or the ability to articulate their demands on a singular political platform.  The Palestinian Authority (PA) says one thing and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) says another.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will admit, I see statements quite frequently that are so similar that I cannot distinguish between anti-Semitism and (so-called) anti-Zionism.
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement, just as the Palestine Liberation Organization was once a true "liberation movement.   And that is the principle difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism; and even anti-Israeli Movements.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Zionism is about _(my opinion)_ is not about religion.  It is about the way anti-Zionist Advocates attempt to  delegitimize Israel and deny Jews their rights (an attempt to deny self-determination).
> 
> ✪ Anti-semitism is simply furthering hostility and prejudice against any Jew - all Jews.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel _(the nation and the people)_ and by association, anyone that supports or defends Israel; politically, economically, commercially, militarily and diplomatically.​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea right....  It just means you believe that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.   Yet you talk about the “Two State Solution?”  KEEP POSTING!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All things are possible; even a Two-State Solution as an outcome of the conflict.  But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  As long as the Arab Palestinian holds this position and aggravates or intentionally retards a possible peaceful solution → so will the ultimate outcome be less favorable to them as time goes on.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have posted many You Tube Videos in which they declare their Goal is to Liberate ALL Of “ Palestine” to 48 yet they HONESTLY expect “ Right of Return?”
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, the Right of Return (RoR) is not really a right _(an imposed obligation by law)_ as the Arab Palestinians would have you believe.

It would be foolish for the Israelis to give credance to the RoR retroactively back to 1948 demographics, just as it is foolish to even give consideration to the demanded RoR back to the 4 June 1967 political demarcation and demographics.  That would spell the doom for the Jewish National Home.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL,  et al,
> 
> Yes, that is a major problem stemming from the fact that the Arab Palestinians have never had a "unified" voice or the ability to articulate their demands on a singular political platform.  The Palestinian Authority (PA) says one thing and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) says another.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I will admit, I see statements quite frequently that are so similar that I cannot distinguish between anti-Semitism and (so-called) anti-Zionism.
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement, just as the Palestine Liberation Organization was once a true "liberation movement.   And that is the principle difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism; and even anti-Israeli Movements.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Zionism is about _(my opinion)_ is not about religion.  It is about the way anti-Zionist Advocates attempt to  delegitimize Israel and deny Jews their rights (an attempt to deny self-determination).
> 
> ✪ Anti-semitism is simply furthering hostility and prejudice against any Jew - all Jews.
> 
> ✪  Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel _(the nation and the people)_ and by association, anyone that supports or defends Israel; politically, economically, commercially, militarily and diplomatically.​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea right....  It just means you believe that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.   Yet you talk about the “Two State Solution?”  KEEP POSTING!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All things are possible; even a Two-State Solution as an outcome of the conflict.  But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  As long as the Arab Palestinian holds this position and aggravates or intentionally retards a possible peaceful solution → so will the ultimate outcome be less favorable to them as time goes on.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have posted many You Tube Videos in which they declare their Goal is to Liberate ALL Of “ Palestine” to 48 yet they HONESTLY expect “ Right of Return?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yeah, the Right of Return (RoR) is not really a right _(an imposed obligation by law)_ as the Arab Palestinians would have you believe.
> 
> It would be foolish for the Israelis to give credance to the RoR retroactively back to 1948 demographics, just as it is foolish to even give consideration to the demanded RoR back to the 4 June 1967 political demarcation and demographics.  That would spell the doom for the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Which is EXACTLY what they want! Notice there is no response to the PLO’s very recent statement that the Western Wall would be off limits to Israelis??


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel


Israel maligns itself with its own illegal activities. The Palestinians merely point those out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."


Far from true. The vast majority of Palestinian resistance is non violent. Of course armed resistance is legal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement,


OK, the Zionists driving the British out of Palestine could be considered liberation. But, driving the Palestinians out of Palestine is conquest.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Far from true. The vast majority of Palestinian resistance is non violent. Of course armed resistance is legal.
Click to expand...


Common sense ( God Forbid !) would suggest that it wouldn’t take a Majority to incite Violence and actually start a Civil War to ( their slogan) “ Go Back to 48)  Time for you to press that Stupid button you’re always mentioning.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Far from true. The vast majority of Palestinian resistance is non violent. Of course armed resistance is legal.
Click to expand...


*You mean like Jihadi walking into a restaurant to murder civilians,
or the BDS targeting Jewish students and Jewish communities worldwide?*

Neither the Arab pogroms before Zionism, nor attacks on Jews worldwide are resistance - Hitler as well portrayed it as if he was a victim, and Jews were his main victimizers, just like BDS today.

You're not resisting but leading a worldwide attack against the  majority of Jews worldwide.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement,
> 
> 
> 
> OK, the Zionists driving the British out of Palestine could be considered liberation. But, driving the Palestinians out of Palestine is conquest.
Click to expand...


And driving the Jews out would ALSO have been (and continues to be) conquest, then, right?  So it is a Jewish liberation movement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Except when it is an attempt to establish a Caliphate on lands of the indigenous people.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



How about_* "go back to Your desert in Arabia"*_?


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * Farah Chamma*
> 
> **



Isn't that the same girl who wrote about the problem of Arab indulgence with hashish?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement,
> 
> 
> 
> OK, the Zionists driving the British out of Palestine could be considered liberation. But, driving the Palestinians out of Palestine is conquest.
Click to expand...


Jews driving the British and the Arabs out of Palestine, was one and the same result of decolonization.

Both Arab and British invaders lost - only the Arabs remained sore losers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Dajani*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud/ My kind of toy*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dana Dajani*



_Mein Kampf_ has been pointed to as an example of the influence of Nazism for Arab nationalists. According to Stefan Wild of the University of Bonn, Hitler's philosophy of National Socialism – of a state headed by a single, *strong, charismatic leader with a submissive and adoring people – was a model for the founders of the Arab nationalist movement.*

In October 1938, anti-Jewish treatises that included extracts from _Mein Kampf_ were disseminated at an Islamic parliamentarians' conference "for the defense of Palestine" in Cairo.[11][1][12]
*






Mein Kampf in Arabic - Wikipedia*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



What’s the issue?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noor Daoud/ My kind of toy*



Poor poor Arabs - all those dreams of Caliphate and BMW's.
No doubt, before Israel they each had a Ferrari donkey, 
*Jews are to blame of course.*


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What’s the issue?
Click to expand...


Didn't You know, it's a Palestinian "inalienable right" to organize suicide bombings without Police obstacles.

Otherwise America is an apartheid of course, just listen to the Palestinian professors who call for an armed uprising in the US:


Q. How dare the Police take action against these peaceful folks, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amena El Ashkar - israel Has No Right To EXIST!*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noor Daoud/ My kind of toy*




Islamic terrorists. Toys for Death Cultists


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Amena El Ashkar - israel Has No Right To EXIST!*



You’re getting hysterical, Mahmoud, Jr.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Great poster, if you want to send the wrong message.   But it is all wrong.   This is the same old message with a Madison Avenue facelift.

The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to 
establish a Jewish state in Arab territory 
is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, 
that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. 
The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​.................................................................................................................._................../s/ Isa Nakhleh_
.....................................................................................................................Representative of the Arab Higher Committee
................................................................................................................................................................................(February 1948)

Today the PLO simply says:  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."



P F Tinmore said:


> "Resistance is NOT Terrorism"


*(COMMENT)*

*IF* your violence is designed to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, *THEN* *it is terrorism*.

It is not rocket science.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Amena El Ashkar - israel Has No Right To EXIST!*
> 
> **



Israel is apparently an obstacle in the establishment of another Caliphate.
That alone is enough a reason to exist, aside from the fact that it's backed by international law.

But hey, I can offer you a ticket to Syria, just spare us from crying to Israel when the diapers are full.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *IF* your violence is designed to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, *THEN* *it is terrorism*.


No, it is just to resist the occupation like they have the right to do.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Amena El Ashkar - israel Has No Right To EXIST! *




Jordan has no right to exist.  Support your claim.  Good luck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* your violence is designed to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, *THEN* *it is terrorism*.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is just to resist the occupation like they have the right to do.
Click to expand...


Isis is using the same slogans..exactly the same goal as well.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,




“Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding.” 
..........................................................................................― *Albert Einstein*



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Israel activities are those that focus on maligning the character of Israel
> 
> 
> 
> Israel maligns itself with its own illegal activities. The Palestinians merely point those out.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun.  In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong.  But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity.  Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low. 

There is no one in the civilized world will deny that this is wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But such an outcome becomes ever more unlikely with the continued Arab Palestinians stance that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."
> 
> 
> 
> Far from true. The vast majority of Palestinian resistance is nonviolent. Of course armed resistance is legal.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Armed resistance is  NOT legal.  Article 68 GCIV. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think of Zionism as a liberation movement,
> 
> 
> 
> OK, the Zionists driving the British out of Palestine could be considered liberation. But, driving the Palestinians out of Palestine is conquest.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes, and maybe a necessary evil.  But Israel is NOT the sole holder of this opinion.  How many Arab League nations want the Arab Palestinians as immigrants_*?*_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* your violence is designed to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, *THEN* *it is terrorism*.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is just to resist the occupation like they have the right to do.
Click to expand...


I’m afraid you just can’t admit that Islamic ideology as delineated in the Hamas charter is about insensate Jew hatreds and a perceived entitlement to gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> “Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding.”
> ..........................................................................................― *Albert Einstein*


Says the guy who opposed Zionism.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding.”
> ..........................................................................................― *Albert Einstein*
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy who opposed Zionism.
Click to expand...

Einstein also posed as a Socialist Pacifist, yet he was the one to suggest Roosevelt to construct the atomic bomb. So much for his judgment of the world.

I just now realize how much You suffer from cognitive dissonance.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun. In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong. But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity. Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low.


Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.


And the candy asses in Israel whine about a few kites.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun. In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong. But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity. Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low.
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> And the candy asses in Israel whine about a few kites.
Click to expand...


It’s not just a few kites. It’s a systematic employment by Islamic terrorists of the most brutal, most malevolent acts of inflicting pain and misery on themselves as well as others. 

Why do you whine and moan about the continued beatdowns your heroes take? You’re doing nothing but sitting on the sidelines flailing your Pom Poms. It’s not as though your cut and paste gee-had via YouTube videos is going to impress anyone.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


>



They learn well


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun. In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong. But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity. Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low.
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> And the candy asses in Israel whine about a few kites.
Click to expand...



Too bad, so sad. Between July 8 and 20 over 1200 Rockets were fired into Israel. Please tell us what the “ International Community “ did about it? Nothing. On July 20 Israel dropped flyers warning people to leave . Whatever happened, rthey brought it on themselves.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun. In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong. But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity. Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low.
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> And the candy asses in Israel whine about a few kites.
Click to expand...


Oh look another badly staged palywood production,
who would expect anything else from a Jihadi lovebird, right?

Enjoy:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You say that as if it were true.  

Just remember, that every attack by the Arab Palestinians against the Israelis, no matter what kind, is punishable under international humanitarian law (GCIV).

Every counter-attack by the Israelis again the attacking Arab Palestinians are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You use that generic phrase "illegal activities" like it is some special gun. In the real world of human existence, there will always be wrong. But the Arab Palestinian has raised the bar to a new level of insanity. Incendiary kites for the purpose of starting destruction to property is a new low.
> 
> 
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> And the candy asses in Israel whine about a few kites.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Some of those Arson Kite attacks burned for 6 hours or more and involved 10 fir fighting crews to battle it.

See the  exhibit, “The Effects of Arson Kites on the South of Israel.” 

Incendiary weapons, under international humanitarian law (IHL), describes weapons that act mainly through fire and heat.  The 1980 Protocol III on Incendiary Weapons of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons restricts the use of incendiary weapons as a means or method of warfare during an armed conflict.



			
				EXCERPT: Protocol III to the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. said:
			
		

> Article 2: Protection of civilians and civilian objects
> 
> 1. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.
> 
> 2. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.



Arson is serious business and can have serious consequences.  Of course, again the Arab Palestinians hold the position that they are special and above the law.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Every counter-attack by the Israelis again the attacking Arab Palestinians are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter.


How about any attacks by the Palestinians against the attacking Israelis are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Arson is serious business and can have serious consequences. Of course, again the Arab Palestinians hold the position that they are special and above the law.


So then, why doesn't Israel take them to court?

Oh yeah:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*John Mearsheimer: Inevitability of the One State Solution*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *John Mearsheimer: Inevitability of the One State Solution*



There already is a one-stare solution: Israel.

The Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza’istan and Fatah’istan are just failed, welfare fraud recipients.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Report from Gaza: The View from the Street, During the Siege - Laila El-Haddad*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Report from Israel. Taming the Islamist savage.

*


----------



## rylah

*Gaza tour - what Palestinian propaganda will never show*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*U.S. Funding Fatah in Gaza Hard Coup*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Haidar Eid, Never Again for Anyone.*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Maybe the Palestinians should stop using them as Human Shields.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The only offensive activity by the Israelis should be in response to Arab Palestinian violations punishable by either Israel Domestic Law or Article 68 of the Geneva Convention dealing with "Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every counter-attack by the Israelis again the attacking Arab Palestinians are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> How about any attacks by the Palestinians against the attacking Israelis are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians _(in fact anyone)_ may file a criminal complaint against any Israeli Governmental misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance → or file criminal complaints in the case of excessive use of force by law enforcement in the maintenance of Article 43 of the Hague Regulation dealing with matters of public order and safety.  Such complaints may be filed at any one of the 38 West Bank Isreali Police Stations in Area "C" or any of the more than 20 Palestinian Civil Police Stations in Area "B."  Most Israeli Police Patrols _(walking Posts and mobile Patrols)_ are able to accept complaints of a criminal nature as a function of normal police duties; but often, complex complaints might require a visit to a Police Station.

Recognition as defensive action under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter does not apply to civil police activity under the Hague Regulation.  

While the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1937) is now a historic International Agreement _(it was applicable up and until the end of the Mandate Period)_, it is a key and fundamental source of what is considered the Customary Law (common law a legal precedent) in cases of terrorism.  It was a very detail Law and each offense was treated as a separate offense.  

The Permanent Court of International Justice, whose function is to decide in accordance with international law such disputes as are submitted to it, shall apply:

a. international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states ;
b. international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;
c. the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*POET IN ANDALUCIA The poet: Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The only offensive activity by the Israelis should be in response to Arab Palestinian violations punishable by either Israel Domestic Law or Article 68 of the Geneva Convention dealing with "Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every counter-attack by the Israelis again the attacking Arab Palestinians are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> How about any attacks by the Palestinians against the attacking Israelis are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(in fact anyone)_ may file a criminal complaint against any Israeli Governmental misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance → or file criminal complaints in the case of excessive use of force by law enforcement in the maintenance of Article 43 of the Hague Regulation dealing with matters of public order and safety.  Such complaints may be filed at any one of the 38 West Bank Isreali Police Stations in Area "C" or any of the more than 20 Palestinian Civil Police Stations in Area "B."  Most Israeli Police Patrols _(walking Posts and mobile Patrols)_ are able to accept complaints of a criminal nature as a function of normal police duties; but often, complex complaints might require a visit to a Police Station.
> 
> Recognition as defensive action under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter does not apply to civil police activity under the Hague Regulation.
> 
> While the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1937) is now a historic International Agreement _(it was applicable up and until the end of the Mandate Period)_, it is a key and fundamental source of what is considered the Customary Law (common law a legal precedent) in cases of terrorism.  It was a very detail Law and each offense was treated as a separate offense.
> 
> The Permanent Court of International Justice, whose function is to decide in accordance with international law such disputes as are submitted to it, shall apply:
> 
> a. international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states ;
> b. international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;
> c. the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

None of that verbosity explains how the Palestinians can be the aggressors from their home.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

First, let me make this perfectly clear.  The use of White Phosphorous is not "illegal."  But it is not suppose to be used in built-up areas.


			
				26 Apr 2013 The Telegraph said:
			
		

> Israel's army said Thursday that it would soon halt its use of white phosphorus shells after years of international criticism for using the incendiary munitions in crowded Palestinian areas.
> • SOURCE LINK •



*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel is not a party to the ICC agreement.  It is fully capable of investigating its allegations against the Israeli Defense Force.


			
				EXCERPTs: The Jerusalem Post said:
			
		

> The High Court of Justice on Sunday recommended the IDF cease all use of white phosphorus (WP) for creating smoke screens during military operations.
> ...   ...   ...
> Based on that prediction, he said, it was “important for the High Court to prohibit white phosphorus now when things are relatively calm.”
> •  *SOURCE LINK* •


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The only offensive activity by the Israelis should be in response to Arab Palestinian violations punishable by either Israel Domestic Law or Article 68 of the Geneva Convention dealing with "Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every counter-attack by the Israelis again the attacking Arab Palestinians are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> How about any attacks by the Palestinians against the attacking Israelis are recognized as defensive under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians _(in fact anyone)_ may file a criminal complaint against any Israeli Governmental misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance → or file criminal complaints in the case of excessive use of force by law enforcement in the maintenance of Article 43 of the Hague Regulation dealing with matters of public order and safety.  Such complaints may be filed at any one of the 38 West Bank Isreali Police Stations in Area "C" or any of the more than 20 Palestinian Civil Police Stations in Area "B."  Most Israeli Police Patrols _(walking Posts and mobile Patrols)_ are able to accept complaints of a criminal nature as a function of normal police duties; but often, complex complaints might require a visit to a Police Station.
> 
> Recognition as defensive action under Article 2 and Article 51 of the UN Charter does not apply to civil police activity under the Hague Regulation.
> 
> While the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1937) is now a historic International Agreement _(it was applicable up and until the end of the Mandate Period)_, it is a key and fundamental source of what is considered the Customary Law (common law a legal precedent) in cases of terrorism.  It was a very detail Law and each offense was treated as a separate offense.
> 
> The Permanent Court of International Justice, whose function is to decide in accordance with international law such disputes as are submitted to it, shall apply:
> 
> a. international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states ;
> b. international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;
> c. the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of that verbosity explains how the Palestinians can be the aggressors from their home.
Click to expand...


Acts of war by Arabs-Moslems is aggression.

Are you finding that complicated?


----------



## Hollie

*IDF Resistance Against the islamic terrorists.





*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That wasn't the question.  I answered the question.



P F Tinmore said:


> None of that verbosity explains how the Palestinians can be the aggressors from their home.


*(COMMENT)*

You are twisting the question around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults.

Your implications are a form of passive incitement, wherein you are trying to present the idea to others that it is perfectly legal for Protected Persons _(Arab Palestinians)_ to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power _(Israelis)_.  This  "commentary" about they cannot be "aggressors from their home" is just subterfuge.  YOU simply cannot make any attack or assault; just like you cannot attack or assault anyone in your locality. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

Hollie said:


>






they're all just sick, sick bastards..._pure evil_.    watching them/listening to them -- surreal -- i find 'them' disturbingly fascinating.............and there's a whole 

 gaggle _of 'em_ out there......................


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I do NOT see this as "inevitable."



P F Tinmore said:


> *John Mearsheimer: Inevitability of the One State Solution*


*(COMMENT)*

There are several examples of traditional situations that should have been temporary but have lasted quite some time.  There is no reason the Israelis cannot continue to maintain the status quo until the Arab Palestinians sue for peace.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That wasn't the question.  I answered the question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of that verbosity explains how the Palestinians can be the aggressors from their home.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are twisting the question around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults.
> 
> Your implications are a form of passive incitement, wherein you are trying to present the idea to others that it is perfectly legal for Protected Persons _(Arab Palestinians)_ to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power _(Israelis)_.  This  "commentary" about they cannot be "aggressors from their home" is just subterfuge.  YOU simply cannot make any attack or assault; just like you cannot attack or assault anyone in your locality.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


*"You are twisting the question* 

 *around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults..."*





 i guess this is what goofy terrorist supporters do.....(nothing new)  I find it disturbing.

 arafat, abbas - dropped the "peace offering" ball long ago, and now, 

 hamass is recruiting children and boys to pretend to be 'protestors' while the adult terrorists  sit back and watch "the kid protestors" do their dirty work.  the islamic child-abusing pussies & scummy cowards that they are......


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That wasn't the question.  I answered the question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of that verbosity explains how the Palestinians can be the aggressors from their home.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are twisting the question around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults.
> 
> Your implications are a form of passive incitement, wherein you are trying to present the idea to others that it is perfectly legal for Protected Persons _(Arab Palestinians)_ to commit offenses which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power _(Israelis)_.  This  "commentary" about they cannot be "aggressors from their home" is just subterfuge.  YOU simply cannot make any attack or assault; just like you cannot attack or assault anyone in your locality.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are dancing around the main issue.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

No, I'm not dancing around the issue.

I would be interested to know under what authority Dalal al-Maghribi _(Fatah)_ had to carry out her attacks?  

Under what authority Ahed Tamimi _(West Bank Juvenile Delinquent)_ had that allowed her to attack a police officer?  

OR under what authority allows HAMAS has in organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in terrorist acts? 

OR under what authority do you have that allows the Arab Palestinian to perform the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are twisting the question around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults.
> 
> 
> 
> You are dancing around the main issue.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

And you*!!!* intentionally incite Arab Palestinians to further commit a terrorist acts; claiming the Arab Palestinian has some legal footing - some right to do these things.



			
				UN Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible
> and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been
> guilty of such conduct;​•  SOURCE LINK •



 WHEN you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinian has the right to perform "criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, WHATEVER the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."
(A/RES/49/60)



			
				UN Secretary-General (2013) said:
			
		

> First:  the critical links between development and security.  Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> • SOURCE LINK → SG/SM/14764-SC/10883 •


https://www.un.org/press/en/2013/sgsm14764.doc.htm​https://www.un.org/press/en/2013/sgsm14764.doc.htm
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No, I'm not dancing around the issue.
> 
> I would be interested to know under what authority Dalal al-Maghribi _(Fatah)_ had to carry out her attacks?
> 
> Under what authority Ahed Tamimi _(West Bank Juvenile Delinquent)_ had that allowed her to attack a police officer?
> 
> OR under what authority allows HAMAS has in organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in terrorist acts?
> 
> OR under what authority do you have that allows the Arab Palestinian to perform the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are twisting the question around in some attempt to justify the attacks and individual assaults.
> 
> 
> 
> You are dancing around the main issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And you*!!!* intentionally incite Arab Palestinians to further commit a terrorist acts; claiming the Arab Palestinian has some legal footing - some right to do these things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Security Council Resolution S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their obligations under international law to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> (c)  Deny safe haven to any persons with respect to whom there is credible
> and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been
> guilty of such conduct;​•  SOURCE LINK •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WHEN you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinian has the right to perform "criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, WHATEVER the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."
> (A/RES/49/60)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Secretary-General (2013) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First:  the critical links between development and security.  Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.
> • SOURCE LINK → SG/SM/14764-SC/10883 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still dodging my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, What am I dodging?



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still dodging my post.



v/r
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, What am I dodging?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dodging my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

How can somebody at home be an aggressor?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir chats about Official Competition "Wajib" BFI London Film Festival*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, What am I dodging?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dodging my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can somebody at home be an aggressor?
Click to expand...


By committing acts of islamic terrorism directed at a sovereign nation. 

You find that difficult to fathom?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How can somebody at home be an aggressor?



Why don't you take a shot at answering that yourself.  Israel has been a nation for the homeland of the Jewish people since 1948, based on more than 3000 years of presence in that land.  How can somebody at home be an aggressor?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Sees nothing wrong with Rockets; Not surprised. Seriously, maybe Israel should respond in exactly the same way


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



What’s wrong with you? They are Peaceful Protesters?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Not enough information of a specific event or activity about the home or resident.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, What am I dodging?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dodging my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can somebody at home be an aggressor?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

These are not real questions.  They have no context. 


Who is in what home?
Where is that home? 

What parties are involved?
What activities are happening in the home?
What external police or security event lead to the home being under investigation?

In general, all things being otherwise legal, a person in a residential dwelling is not normally considered the aggressor.  But the meaning of aggressor in your question is dubious.  I suspect it is designed to be impossible to answer. 

If you are talking about evictions (displaced people), that is not a case related to "aggressor" activity.  That is another matter entirely.  That is usually sparked by some political action or event. 

There are cases (1948 War) in which there is a matter of rear areas from extremely vulnerable but hostile residents _(you don't wait for them to attack, you move them)_. Israeli rear area security must counteract the adverse effects on logistics and communications lines from Arab Palestinians that remain behind.

Your six-word question is not a question, but some sort of word game. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Not enough information of a specific event or activity about the home or resident.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, What am I dodging?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dodging my post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can somebody at home be an aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> These are not real questions.  They have no context.
> 
> 
> Who is in what home?
> Where is that home?
> 
> What parties are involved?
> What activities are happening in the home?
> What external police or security event lead to the home being under investigation?
> 
> In general, all things being otherwise legal, a person in a residential dwelling is not normally considered the aggressor.  But the meaning of aggressor in your question is dubious.  I suspect it is designed to be impossible to answer.
> 
> If you are talking about evictions (displaced people), that is not a case related to "aggressor" activity.  That is another matter entirely.  That is usually sparked by some political action or event.
> 
> There are cases (1948 War) in which there is a matter of rear areas from extremely vulnerable but hostile residents _(you don't wait for them to attack, you move them)_. Israeli rear area security must counteract the adverse effects on logistics and communications lines from Arab Palestinians that remain behind.
> 
> Your six-word question is not a question, but some sort of word game.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All that for a one liner question. How about just an answer?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'll give a straight-up answer if you give a straight-up question.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your six-word question is not a question, but some sort of word game.
> 
> 
> 
> All that for a one liner question. How about just an answer?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As I said, the term "aggressor" and the venue of "home" in your question are not compatible with the definition of one or the other.  _(I think you mean "threat.")_

In the 1948 War, the Arab League, representing the Arab Palestinians, attacked first. _(A/RES/29/3314 - Definition of Aggression )_

The question requires more explanation than the trick you are using.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'll give a straight-up answer if you give a straight-up question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your six-word question is not a question, but some sort of word game.
> 
> 
> 
> All that for a one liner question. How about just an answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I said, the term "aggressor" and the venue of "home" in your question are not compatible with the definition of one or the other.  _(I think you mean "threat.")_
> 
> In the 1948 War, the Arab League, representing the Arab Palestinians, attacked first. _(A/RES/29/3314 - Definition of Aggression )_
> 
> The question requires more explanation than the trick you are using.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Jeese, Rocco, simple question. How can you attack someone from your home? How is that physically possible?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib, the first Palestinian and Muslim congresswomem speaks*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Jeese, Rocco, simple question. How can you attack someone from your home? How is that physically possible?


*(COMMENT)*

Different question.

Answer:  By using a weapon from the home, which has a reach beyond the home.


Example:   Any Arab Palestinian that by any means, directly or* indirectly*, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention and knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, to carry out an act  intended to harm the Occupying Power, is such *an attack carried from the home*. 


And then it goes on from there. → If the home is used as a *safe haven* or as cover and concealment support, a facility to support terrorist acts.

Families that recieves financial gain by sending family members to participate in a terrorist act is essentially profit for hire.

In 1948, the Arab Leaders new that Arab Palestinian Residents would pose a fifth columnist threat.   And, of course, we don't want to forget to comply with Customary and International Humanitarian Law: 




 ​
Without context, you may think you wrote a question when you really didn't.  And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to. 

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.



Of course.  His base position is that the Arab Palestinians have no requirement to follow international law or refrain from illegal violence because Arab Palestinians are "right" (or "home") and therefore the laws do not apply to them.  This is especially true in the shadow of his second position which is that the Jewish people have no rights in law (not to life, let alone to self-determination or return) because their mere presence is "wrong".


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  His base position is that the Arab Palestinians have no requirement to follow international law or refrain from illegal violence because Arab Palestinians are "right" (or "home") and therefore the laws do not apply to them.  This is especially true in the shadow of his second position which is that the Jewish people have no rights in law (not to life, let alone to self-determination or return) because their mere presence is "wrong".
Click to expand...


If they have no Rights in Law then they have no reason to follow “ International Law”.   Funny how he picks and chooses ; What he “ agrees” with 
Regarding U.N. Resolutions he constantly spouts but what he doesn’t agree with all of a sudden there is quiet


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  His base position is that the Arab Palestinians have no requirement to follow international law or refrain from illegal violence because Arab Palestinians are "right" (or "home") and therefore the laws do not apply to them.  This is especially true in the shadow of his second position which is that the Jewish people have no rights in law (not to life, let alone to self-determination or return) because their mere presence is "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they have no Rights in Law then they have no reason to follow “ International Law”.   Funny how he picks and chooses ; What he “ agrees” with
> Regarding U.N. Resolutions he constantly spouts but what he doesn’t agree with all of a sudden there is quiet
Click to expand...


Tell me about it. He ignores a lot of my posts because he doesn't want to reveal his hypocrisy even though it's obvious to all of us.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  His base position is that the Arab Palestinians have no requirement to follow international law or refrain from illegal violence because Arab Palestinians are "right" (or "home") and therefore the laws do not apply to them.  This is especially true in the shadow of his second position which is that the Jewish people have no rights in law (not to life, let alone to self-determination or return) because their mere presence is "wrong".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they have no Rights in Law then they have no reason to follow “ International Law”.   Funny how he picks and chooses ; What he “ agrees” with
> Regarding U.N. Resolutions he constantly spouts but what he doesn’t agree with all of a sudden there is quiet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. He ignores a lot of my posts because he doesn't want to reveal his hypocrisy even though it's obvious to all of us.
Click to expand...


I have mentioned several times that the PA just RECENTLY announced the Jews had NO Rights to the Western Wall and of course there is no response. This is only ONE small example. Why should he be taken seriously ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeese, Rocco, simple question. How can you attack someone from your home? How is that physically possible?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Different question.
> 
> Answer:  By using a weapon from the home, which has a reach beyond the home.
> 
> Example:   Any Arab Palestinian that by any means, directly or* indirectly*, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention and knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, to carry out an act  intended to harm the Occupying Power, is such *an attack carried from the home*.
> 
> 
> And then it goes on from there. → If the home is used as a *safe haven* or as cover and concealment support, a facility to support terrorist acts.
> 
> Families that recieves financial gain by sending family members to participate in a terrorist act is essentially profit for hire.
> 
> In 1948, the Arab Leaders new that Arab Palestinian Residents would pose a fifth columnist threat.   And, of course, we don't want to forget to comply with Customary and International Humanitarian Law:
> 
> View attachment 227337​
> Without context, you may think you wrote a question when you really didn't.  And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...

Now you are being silly.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeese, Rocco, simple question. How can you attack someone from your home? How is that physically possible?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Different question.
> 
> Answer:  By using a weapon from the home, which has a reach beyond the home.
> 
> Example:   Any Arab Palestinian that by any means, directly or* indirectly*, unlawfully and wilfully, provides or collects funds with the intention and knowledge that they are to be used, in full or in part, to carry out an act  intended to harm the Occupying Power, is such *an attack carried from the home*.
> 
> 
> And then it goes on from there. → If the home is used as a *safe haven* or as cover and concealment support, a facility to support terrorist acts.
> 
> Families that recieves financial gain by sending family members to participate in a terrorist act is essentially profit for hire.
> 
> In 1948, the Arab Leaders new that Arab Palestinian Residents would pose a fifth columnist threat.   And, of course, we don't want to forget to comply with Customary and International Humanitarian Law:
> 
> View attachment 227337​
> Without context, you may think you wrote a question when you really didn't.  And I suspect that no matter what answer I attempted to offer, you would find an objection to.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are being silly.
Click to expand...


Nice deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib Will WIN: What Will She Do In Congress?*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib, Activist, Attorney, and Congressional Candidate in Michigan | MAKERS*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fatin Jarara, Don't Tour Apartheid Israel Press Conference *


----------



## P F Tinmore

* “Administrative Detention Order of Khalida Jarrar Confirmed”*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's Influence on U.S. Media | Rula Jebreal*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*When we say it is enough, it will mean Palestine is free – Janna Jihad*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *When we say it is enough, it will mean Palestine is free – Janna Jihad*



From whom does the Jihadi girl wants to free Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **



*Ahed Tamimi calling for Suicide Bombings and Stabbings*

Q. You think she'd be better in mental institution?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation with Palestinian-American poet Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Illegal Palestinian Settlements*


----------



## rylah

Cheers at Hamas public execution* -*_*"We should clean our area of these people before we cleanse it of the Jews" *_
*
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Illegal Palestinian Settlements*


That is too funny. Oslo expired.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wasnt that you whining about Oslo expiring?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Anti-Semitism Campaign Against Corbyn Leaves out Palestinians*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal Palestinian Settlements*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny. Oslo expired.
Click to expand...

Good news!
No agreement with the Caliphate is worth the ink.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Illegal Palestinian Settlements*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny. Oslo expired.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good news!
> No agreement with the Caliphate is worth the ink.
Click to expand...


Gee whiz. Tinmore tells us the conflict is not about religion, yet his co-religionists emphatically announce otherwise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


----------



## Hollie

The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.

Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?


Even the Goldstone report reported these violations. The HRW report, as far as I can tell, is just nipping around the edges. There was no context on the systematic problems.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Goldstone report reported these violations. The HRW report, as far as I can tell, is just nipping around the edges. There was no context on the systematic problems.
Click to expand...


No context on the systematic problems? You might want to be honest with yourself and examine the causes for the lack of personal freedoms, disregard for rule of law and the abundance of ruthless dictators / theocratic totalitarianism so common across the Islamist middle east. The point is, Islamist totalitarianism is the systematic problem. There is no greater, oppressive totalitarian ideology than Islamism. There is nothing in Islamist ideology that allows for the freedoms that define Western civilization. In the West, you can expect fundamental rights to be honored (even if grudgingly) and protected by law. We've evolved from such totalitarian Islamic constructs as forced religion, religious dictators and a retrograde islamic "system for life" that the most spirit crushing ideology ever unleased on humanity.

<----- this is where you reply with one of a half-dozen worn, tired slogans you dump in most threads or a goofy YouTube video.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Goldstone report reported these violations. The HRW report, as far as I can tell, is just nipping around the edges. There was no context on the systematic problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No context on the systematic problems? You might want to be honest with yourself and examine the causes for the lack of personal freedoms, disregard for rule of law and the abundance of ruthless dictators / theocratic totalitarianism so common across the Islamist middle east. The point is, Islamist totalitarianism is the systematic problem. There is no greater, oppressive totalitarian ideology than Islamism. There is nothing in Islamist ideology that allows for the freedoms that define Western civilization. In the West, you can expect fundamental rights to be honored (even if grudgingly) and protected by law. We've evolved from such totalitarian Islamic constructs as forced religion, religious dictators and a retrograde islamic "system for life" that the most spirit crushing ideology ever unleased on humanity.
> 
> <----- this is where you reply with one of a half-dozen worn, tired slogans you dump in most threads or a goofy YouTube video.
Click to expand...


Don’t you miss the You Tube Video he used to post where Hasidic Jews were screaming that Israel doesn’t have the Right to Exist???


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Goldstone report reported these violations. The HRW report, as far as I can tell, is just nipping around the edges. There was no context on the systematic problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No context on the systematic problems? You might want to be honest with yourself and examine the causes for the lack of personal freedoms, disregard for rule of law and the abundance of ruthless dictators / theocratic totalitarianism so common across the Islamist middle east. The point is, Islamist totalitarianism is the systematic problem. There is no greater, oppressive totalitarian ideology than Islamism. There is nothing in Islamist ideology that allows for the freedoms that define Western civilization. In the West, you can expect fundamental rights to be honored (even if grudgingly) and protected by law. We've evolved from such totalitarian Islamic constructs as forced religion, religious dictators and a retrograde islamic "system for life" that the most spirit crushing ideology ever unleased on humanity.
> 
> <----- this is where you reply with one of a half-dozen worn, tired slogans you dump in most threads or a goofy YouTube video.
Click to expand...

I try to post something of substance and you respond with unsubstantiated blabber.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Critical Thinkers at HRW are wagging their fingers at Islamic terrorists over civil rights abuses.
> 
> Say that out loud to yourself - islamic terrorists and civil rights abuses. Isn't there an expectation of something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Goldstone report reported these violations. The HRW report, as far as I can tell, is just nipping around the edges. There was no context on the systematic problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No context on the systematic problems? You might want to be honest with yourself and examine the causes for the lack of personal freedoms, disregard for rule of law and the abundance of ruthless dictators / theocratic totalitarianism so common across the Islamist middle east. The point is, Islamist totalitarianism is the systematic problem. There is no greater, oppressive totalitarian ideology than Islamism. There is nothing in Islamist ideology that allows for the freedoms that define Western civilization. In the West, you can expect fundamental rights to be honored (even if grudgingly) and protected by law. We've evolved from such totalitarian Islamic constructs as forced religion, religious dictators and a retrograde islamic "system for life" that the most spirit crushing ideology ever unleased on humanity.
> 
> <----- this is where you reply with one of a half-dozen worn, tired slogans you dump in most threads or a goofy YouTube video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I try to post something of substance and you respond with unsubstantiated blabber.
Click to expand...


A substantive cut and paste YouTube video. That's funny.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## Hollie

*The Arab-Moslem Death Cult and Hero Worship of a Mass Murderer


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

10 Unrecognized Countries That You Can Still Visit | Beauty Makeup Tips | Page 2

*Palestine*

A bit of a contentious one here as Palestine as a region has long existed and it is usually considered to include the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Israel, and in some definitions, some parts of western Jordan.






The State of Palestine is recognized by 136 UN members and since 2012 has a status of a non-member observer state in the United Nations – which amounts to a _de facto_, or implicit, recognition of statehood but its division and refusal of recognition by several countries still causes a lot of issues within the Middle East meaning that you can visit the region but are likely to do so as though you were entering Israel.


----------



## rylah

*Visit Palestinian Caliphate*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> 10 Unrecognized Countries That You Can Still Visit | Beauty Makeup Tips | Page 2
> 
> *Palestine*
> 
> A bit of a contentious one here as Palestine as a region has long existed and it is usually considered to include the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Israel, and in some definitions, some parts of western Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The State of Palestine is recognized by 136 UN members and since 2012 has a status of a non-member observer state in the United Nations – which amounts to a _de facto_, or implicit, recognition of statehood but its division and refusal of recognition by several countries still causes a lot of issues within the Middle East meaning that you can visit the region but are likely to do so as though you were entering Israel.



Your link is from something about “beauty makeup tips”?  Lipstick on a pig or something like that?

I’d suggest you stick with insisting that the Treaty of Lausanne created your invented “country of Pal’istan”?

Maybe wave your magic Koran and it will come true.

Speaking of beauty tips.....


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Nakba, Refugees and International Law Session 1: London*

**


----------



## rylah

*Q.Is there any law obliging a country to resettle hostile populations?*
Even the UN resolutions that the so-called Palestinian refugees like to mention state that it's a basic precondition.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Diaspora Orchestra*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Diaspora Orchestra*
> 
> **



Isn't that kinda "too European" for Palestinians?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



According to Resolution 194 she's not.
But I can see why Palestinians would like to perpetuate that falsehood.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Jordan is Palestine ? Or Palestine is Jordan ?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Are you trying to say something?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
Click to expand...


Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
Click to expand...


He's not succeeding.

Doesn't he get that?


----------



## Mindful

I can post pictures too:


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's not succeeding.
> 
> Doesn't he get that?
Click to expand...


The Palestinian agenda relies on popular numbers rather than on reality.
Think Soviet Union attitude, they know they fail big time and that most of their people really prefer to live in an Israeli type of state. Most of the citizens in USSR dreamed about normalization with the west, while being forced to participate in the cold war propaganda on behalf of the soviets.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's not succeeding.
> 
> Doesn't he get that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian agenda relies on popular numbers rather than on reality.
> Think Soviet Union attitude, they know they fail big time and that most of their people really prefer to live in an Israeli type of state. Most of the citizens in USSR dreamed about normalization with the west, while being forced to participate in the cold war propaganda on behalf of the soviets.
Click to expand...



I think they have a better PR system in place, for whatever reason, than the Israelis. 

Like grabbing hold of Western journalists on arrival in Israel, and whisking them away to propaganda seminars  in their swish well organised infrastructure.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's not succeeding.
> 
> Doesn't he get that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian agenda relies on popular numbers rather than on reality.
> Think Soviet Union attitude, they know they fail big time and that most of their people really prefer to live in an Israeli type of state. Most of the citizens in USSR dreamed about normalization with the west, while being forced to participate in the cold war propaganda on behalf of the soviets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a better PR system in place, for whatever reason, than the Israelis.
> 
> Like grabbing hold of Western journalists on arrival in Israel, and whisking them away to propaganda seminars  in their swish well organised infrastructure.
Click to expand...


Israel - by definition a minority that can't have a stronger voice than the majority. Do You think that If the UN didn't vote for the partition, they would not establish a state?

As Ben Gurion said in the closing of his commentary on the UN:
_"Our future does not depend on what the nations say, but rather on what the Jews do!" _


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's not succeeding.
> 
> Doesn't he get that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian agenda relies on popular numbers rather than on reality.
> Think Soviet Union attitude, they know they fail big time and that most of their people really prefer to live in an Israeli type of state. Most of the citizens in USSR dreamed about normalization with the west, while being forced to participate in the cold war propaganda on behalf of the soviets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a better PR system in place, for whatever reason, than the Israelis.
> 
> Like grabbing hold of Western journalists on arrival in Israel, and whisking them away to propaganda seminars  in their swish well organised infrastructure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel - by definition a minority that can't have a stronger voice than the majority. Do You think that If the UN didn't vote for the partition, they would not establish a state?
> 
> As Ben Gurion said in the closing of his commentary on the UN:
> _"Our future does not depend on what the nations say, but rather on what the Jews do!" _
Click to expand...


I think the  UN vote was a token gesture. Because it, and the British, assumed the fledging state of Israel would be destroyed by the invading Arab armies. Therefore conveniently solving the "problem". Well that didn't happen. 

So by that criterion, yes they could well have founded a State. Who takes any notice of the UN anyway?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mere emotional manipulation to deflect from hard questions.
> The main currency of anti-Israeli propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's not succeeding.
> 
> Doesn't he get that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian agenda relies on popular numbers rather than on reality.
> Think Soviet Union attitude, they know they fail big time and that most of their people really prefer to live in an Israeli type of state. Most of the citizens in USSR dreamed about normalization with the west, while being forced to participate in the cold war propaganda on behalf of the soviets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think they have a better PR system in place, for whatever reason, than the Israelis.
> 
> Like grabbing hold of Western journalists on arrival in Israel, and whisking them away to propaganda seminars  in their swish well organised infrastructure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel - by definition a minority that can't have a stronger voice than the majority. Do You think that If the UN didn't vote for the partition, they would not establish a state?
> 
> As Ben Gurion said in the closing of his commentary on the UN:
> _"Our future does not depend on what the nations say, but rather on what the Jews do!" _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the  UN vote was a token gesture. Because it, and the British, assumed the fledging state of Israel would be destroyed by the invading Arab armies. Therefore conveniently solving the "problem". Well that didn't happen.
> 
> So by that criterion, yes they could well have founded a State. Who takes any notice of the UN anyway?
Click to expand...


Well Palestinian UN organizations are the biggest elephant in the room employing the biggest stuff and funds.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> I can post pictures too:



He just ❤️ loves to post pictures that don’t mean anything


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Protest for Gaza; Stop the Killing: Salma Yaqoob STWC London*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*A screaming islamic "activist". Quaiifications don't matter.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Typical leftist identity politics. Screech the mantra and your lack of qualifications get ignored.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical leftist identity politics. Screech the mantra and your lack of qualifications get ignored.
Click to expand...

Who lacks qualifications?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical leftist identity politics. Screech the mantra and your lack of qualifications get ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who lacks qualifications?
Click to expand...


Who is in the YouTube video?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical leftist identity politics. Screech the mantra and your lack of qualifications get ignored.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who lacks qualifications?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is in the YouTube video?
Click to expand...

Rashida, a lawyer with six years experience in the Michigan legislature lacks qualifications?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza 2018.*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where is the same shirt for all the other countries created?  Jordan, especially?

Nothing but hypocrites holding one standard for the Jewish people and another for all other people.  You know what that is.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Not a refugee.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Hollie

*Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate
*
Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate

by John Rice-Cameron


_





_


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Does this mean we can end the charade of "peaceful protesters" and "innocent victims"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> *Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate*
> 
> Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate
> 
> by John Rice-Cameron
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Ah, the old terrorist canard again. Is name calling all you got?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean we can end the charade of "peaceful protesters" and "innocent victims"?
Click to expand...


The more he You Tube posts the more frustrated he appears


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate*
> 
> Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate
> 
> by John Rice-Cameron
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the old terrorist canard again. Is name calling all you got?
Click to expand...


The same old slogans. The same retreat. It's all you got.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate*
> 
> Students for Justice in Palestine Linked to Terrorist Affiliate
> 
> by John Rice-Cameron
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, the old terrorist canard again. Is name calling all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same old slogans. The same retreat. It's all you got.
Click to expand...


It’s actually funny


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinians: Do you prefer to teach your children war or peace with Israelis?*


----------



## rylah

#BREAKING: #ISIS publishes picture of Palestinian suicide-bomber from #Gaza, killed 14 Turkish soldiers in Al-Bab attack.
Rudaw English on Twitter


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn..,  One more thing..,,  Love ❤️ for this land without peace with the Israelis


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> #BREAKING: #ISIS publishes picture of Palestinian suicide-bomber from #Gaza, killed 14 Turkish soldiers in Al-Bab attack.
> Rudaw English on Twitter



Why are you being so judgemental?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Despite attempts by the israel lobby in Germany to outlaw the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS,) a German administrative court ruled against a lower court's decision to cancel a BDS event. The Tide is changing!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

*Highly-trained Hamas commandos head to Egypt to team-up with terror group ISIS*

INCREASING numbers of elite Hamas commandos are leaving the Gaza Strip to join forces with ISIS in Egypt.
Members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades and the Hamas commando wing(Nukhba) have teamed-up with the terror group.










Many have travelled to the war-torn Sinai peninsula which already has a heavy ISIS presence, reports the Times of Israel.

Highly-trained bomb makers are among those said to have joined up with Islamis State jihadis.

ISIS has carried out a string of bloody attacks targeting both civilians and the Egyptian army over the last few years.

Highly-trained Hamas commandos head to Egypt to team-up with terror group ISIS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nur Masalha: The question of refugees 60 years after the Nakba - *English starts @ 7:00

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Nur Masalha: The question of refugees 60 years after the Nakba - *English starts @ 7:00
> 
> **




Ironic in the first video that he speaks:  _The scale of the refugee problem is something we don't have in (the world).  You don't have 2/3 of (other countries) as refugees.  Do you have any people on earth which is 60 or 70 (percent) of them are refugees.  You don't._

This is ONLY because the definition of refugee has been altered so drastically.  If you apply the SAME standard (as opposed to a double standard) to other populations you would probably find many examples of similar situations, some probably far worse.  

We could take the Jewish people as an example.  I would argue that at times more than 99.005% of the Jewish population were refugees by the "new" (read: special standards).  So, yeah, we DO have people on earth which is far more than 60 or 70 percent refugees.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Shadow of the West — a film by Edward Said*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



They consider Israel to be ALL of “ Palestine” yet they claim they want a “ Two State Solution?”    Keep posting!


----------



## Hollie

The response to Islamic terrorism - a film of resisting gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Is it cold there? She looks cold wrapped up like that.


----------



## Taz

Hey Tinman, why doesn't the rest of the arab world give a fuck about the Pals, well, except 6 mullahs in Iran. But no arab countries seem to give a crap. Why?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



IDF Winning


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Winning
Click to expand...

After 70 years of winning you would think there would be peace.

More like 70 years of whining.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Winning
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After 70 years of winning you would think there would be peace.
> 
> More like 70 years of whining.
Click to expand...


After 1,400 years of islamic fascism, there is no peace. 

Peace is delivered to islamic terrorists via Lockheed Martin. 




Let the islamic terrorist whiners, whine about where their next welfare check is coming from.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Your women look really, really ugly with those sheets over their heads. You should stop that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


5 fucking ugly sheet people, possibly even retarded (at least numbers 4 and 5). Got anything we care about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Freedom tastes good!*


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> *Freedom tastes good!*


Fat and ugly, ya, she needs more ice cream.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


She's holding a sack of garbage, so what?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Winning
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> After 70 years of winning you would think there would be peace.
> 
> More like 70 years of whining.
Click to expand...


Yes, there is whining and “ no peace” after 70 years. Why?????  Hmmmmm..... I KNOW! Maybe it’s because the Arabs have refused Israel’s Right to Exist since May14 1948 !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's holding a sack of garbage, so what?
Click to expand...


You’re being too critical. The baby is quite an asset. You’re looking at a future Suicide Bombrr


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Are these Israelis mourning the death of that Israeli soldier? THANK YOU ☺️


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


Look how sad he looks. Poor guy!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


>


First of all, is that a guy or a girl?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Traditions of Liberation Education - Professor Karma Nabulsi (Oxford University)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank*


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



Are these the "theatre group people" 

 you revere so much ? they seem to be enjoying themselves...........where exactly is this ?  how come you *don't/can't EVER* put a little snippet of..._who/what/where_ ?  for all i know, it could be anywhere on earth.......

do you know their political party affiliation ? LoL.  terrorists or no-terrorists to lead the way for them ?

The palestinian government - here we are ! _Terrorists !_






 it is pathetic....


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The part I liked best about this Video was the “ peaceful march of Return “.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Finding Me S04 EP20 Rabab Abdulhadi*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



What play are they in?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Is this a Garage Sale?”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



I know... Like Israel has the right to exist. Keep posting


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mitri Raheb | We are Palestinian Christians*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Terrorist Persecution of Christians 
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Food - ARABIC FEAST in Bethlehem + Jesus Birthplace in West Bank, Palestine!*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Cybec Electric 2018 | Meet Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Food - ARABIC FEAST in Bethlehem + Jesus Birthplace in West Bank, Palestine!*
> 
> **



“Pal’istanian” food. Now that’s pretty darn funny. Was Pal’istanian food invented in the late 1960’s when Pal’istanians were invented by an Egyptian Terrorist?

Indeed!


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Al Sabawi - TABO: Every Palestinian Needs a Title | TEDx Talk – Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


>


Off topic. That isn't Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



I suppose you’re too ignorant to understand that Israel is not Jewish only.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Keynotes @2014 NODA Annual Conference | Author Najla Said*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Musakhan Chicken and Palestinian Flatbread at Dyafa — Cooking in America*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Musakhan Chicken and Palestinian Flatbread at Dyafa — Cooking in America*



Another invention of Arafat?


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reem Assil: "Oslo Piece" - Make it Fresh*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> *Musakhan Chicken and Palestinian Flatbread at Dyafa — Cooking in America*
> 
> **


Why do Pals shit in a pita bread?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Musakhan Chicken and Palestinian Flatbread at Dyafa — Cooking in America*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Why do Pals shit in a pita bread?
Click to expand...


So they can cover it up


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Trailer - Islamic Terrorists. Tag em’ and Bag em’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*CCTV: Palestinian man with machete attacks Israelis at bus stop*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



Camping out is fun.


----------



## Hollie

Islamics will find a way to be their own worst enemy

The Gaza environmental crisis is one Arabs-Moslems created.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camping out is fun.
Click to expand...



Any Hot Dogs? Hope they are KOSHER !!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The environmental and socio-political disaster that is Arab-Moslem’ism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*State Violence with Raba Abdulhadi*

**
*BTW.*

*Victory for San Francisco State professor over pro-Israel lawfare suit*

*



*

After three attempts at litigation, pro-Israel lawfare strategists have failed to silence a Palestinian American professor at San Francisco State University.

On Monday, a federal judge in San Francisco finally dismissed a frivolous lawsuit against professor Rabab Abdulhadi and the university over her Palestine research and criticisms of Israel, which was filed as part of a years-long targeted bullying campaign intended to censor and threaten professors and students who advocate for Palestinian rights.

Judge William Orrick III “this time dismissed the case with prejudice, meaning the lawsuit cannot be filed again,” said Palestine Legal on Tuesday.

The lawsuit, which was initially filed in June 2017 by the Lawfare Project – and then re-filed twice more after each attempt was dismissed – accused Abdulhadi and her employer of fostering a hostile environment for Jewish students which they claimed was due to the growing support for Palestinian rights on campus.


----------



## Hollie

Who cares about wallowing in raw sewage when you have the gee-had?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli military attacking civilians.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Too stupid to figure out that they are not wanted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rally Demands Justice For SFSU Professor Rabab Abdulhadi, Palestinian Students & Ed Program*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Apartheid Week Demonstrations and Counter Protests with Students for Justice in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

The Wondrous Arab-Moslem Social Order.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rally Demands Justice For SFSU Professor Rabab Abdulhadi, Palestinian Students & Ed Program*
> 
> **



*News for idiots* - there's no right to attack or incite violence against Jews.
Maybe it's a tradition in those Muslim shithole countries - in the US that's considered a crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Students for Justice in Palestine and Arab Student Union - Taste of OSU 2017*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*You gotta love Palestinian women.*


----------



## Hollie

Taste of Arab-Moslem Socio-Political Ineptitude


----------



## Hollie

Ya’ gotta love “Pal’istanian” women.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Episode 19: Student Organizing for Justice in Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

BDS fascists organizing for the Hitler Youth


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Students for Justice in Palestine and Arab Student Union - Taste of OSU 2017*
> 
> **



Looks like they are trying to dance the Hor


P F Tinmore said:


> *Students for Justice in Palestine and Arab Student Union - Taste of OSU 2017*
> 
> **



Trying to dance the Hora???    Keep practicing!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*



The " country of Pally'land"?

It was invented by the Treaty of Lausanne, right?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*
> 
> **



I've watched until minute 15, and as usually Abunimah is factually incorrect regarding Israel:

Equality is guaranteed in 5 different laws:

Basic Law of Human Dignity and Liberty
Basic Law of Freedom of Occupation
Law of Equality for Women
Law of Equality of Opportunities in Work
Law of Equality for People with Disabilities

Nationalities are not displayed on Israeli ID cards and passports.
Nowhere will You find the designation "Jew", "Arab" or "French", "Christian" or "Muslim" with that said all citizens of Israel are nationals of the Jewish state without distinction of religion.

There're currently 28 nation states, 10 of them in Europe -to claim that Israel is the only such state is utterly ridiculous. Especially since the envisioned Palestinian state, and its legislative framework facilitate an Arab Muslim state.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched until minute 15, and as usually Abunimah is factually incorrect regarding Israel:
> 
> Equality is guaranteed in 5 different laws:
> 
> Basic Law of Human Dignity and Liberty
> Basic Law of Freedom of Occupation
> Law of Equality for Women
> Law of Equality of Opportunities in Work
> Law of Equality for People with Disabilities
> 
> Nationalities are not displayed on Israeli ID cards and passports.
> Nowhere will You find the designation "Jew", "Arab" or "French", "Christian" or "Muslim" with that said all citizens of Israel are nationals of the Jewish state without distinction of religion.
> 
> There're currently 28 nation states, 10 of them in Europe -to claim that Israel is the only such state is utterly ridiculous. Especially since the envisioned Palestinian state, and its legislative framework facilitate an Arab Muslim state.
Click to expand...


You did better than I did.  I couldn't get past the five minute mark where he complains that his mother was expelled from Jerusalem in late 1947 and then goes on about the "Zionists" expelling them before the war as though there was no Arab/Jewish conflict or fighting in late 1947 in Jerusalem.  Give me a break.  Heavy eyeroll.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *One Country: Ali Abunimah on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched until minute 15, and as usually Abunimah is factually incorrect regarding Israel:
> 
> Equality is guaranteed in 5 different laws:
> 
> Basic Law of Human Dignity and Liberty
> Basic Law of Freedom of Occupation
> Law of Equality for Women
> Law of Equality of Opportunities in Work
> Law of Equality for People with Disabilities
> 
> Nationalities are not displayed on Israeli ID cards and passports.
> Nowhere will You find the designation "Jew", "Arab" or "French", "Christian" or "Muslim" with that said all citizens of Israel are nationals of the Jewish state without distinction of religion.
> 
> There're currently 28 nation states, 10 of them in Europe -to claim that Israel is the only such state is utterly ridiculous. Especially since the envisioned Palestinian state, and its legislative framework facilitate an Arab Muslim state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You did better than I did.  I couldn't get past the five minute mark where he complains that his mother was expelled from Jerusalem in late 1947 and then goes on about the "Zionists" expelling them before the war as though there was no Arab/Jewish conflict or fighting in late 1947 in Jerusalem.  Give me a break.  Heavy eyeroll.
Click to expand...


And we're probably the only ones here who even watched the thing in expectation of a discussion.

There was only one correct thing that was said - not one side has an exclusive right. That was right before he went into his long "Israel has no right to exist" speech.

Dirty game.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Ahlam Ahmad al-Tamimi*
Up to $5 Million Reward

On August 9, 2001, al-Tamimi transported a bomb and a HAMAS suicide bomber to a crowded Jerusalem Sbarro pizzeria, where the bomber detonated the explosives, killing 15 people, including seven children. Two American citizens were killed in the attack – Judith Shoshana Greenbaum, a pregnant 31-year-old school teacher from New Jersey, and Malka Chana Roth, a 15-year-old. Over 120 others were injured, including four Americans. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the bombing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Nothing illegal bout that. It's a bunch improvised tents in the middle of a highway, with no electricity, water or permits to build.

Try that in the US and report back on Your favorite prison meal.


----------



## Hollie

The socio-politico crisis of Islamic fascism.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

*Silk Pants - **Jihadi Fashion Show **Autumn 2018*


----------



## rylah

*Jihadi Fashion Show Autumn 2018 -WINNER!!!*

*Business suite line - "I feel Progressive!"



*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

How lucky for this kid that Hamas millionaires have money for gee-had and stacks of cash for their private bank accounts.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Hamas-hired employees display recent salary from Qatar:


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Wait, what?!  No?! You mean women can be detained?  Its almost like, gulp, people are actually responsible for their actions.  The HORROR!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Using Treated Wastewater to Revive Palestine Agriculture*

**


----------



## Hollie

Good Enough for The 7th Century, Good Enough for Today


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Watch the UN Security Council meeting on violence in Gaza*

**
A meeting without substance with some problems.

It was about violence in Gaza without anyone from Gaza present.
They kept banging on about the long dead two state solution. Don't they know that the two state solution died...like... in 1937?
No wonder there is no peace out of this crowd.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Prints of Palestine: When tradition meets modern fashion*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Israel Takes Aim at Palestinian Agricultural Sector in Jericho*

**


----------



## Hollie

The ideological and physical wasteland of the Arab-Moslem gee-had


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Civilizational collapse in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Death Cult has endless money to wage gee-had, not so much for indoor plumbing.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.


Solution for what?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
Click to expand...


For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
Click to expand...

Enforce international law.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
Click to expand...


Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.


----------



## Shusha

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.



Tinmore suggests that if the Jews would just go live somewhere else, his magical Palestine would transform into a bastion of modernity and a shining beacon of human rights.


AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
Click to expand...


When he says "enforce international law", he means enforce international law selectively against Israel and Jewish people only.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
Click to expand...


What a hoot. The Islamic terrorist Death Cult wouldn’t fare well if that happened.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Settlers, Olives, and Occupation: Voices from the West Bank*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic terrorists, Death Cultists and the consequences of Islamic terrorism

The Death Cultists better start cashing those welfare fraud checks.
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
Click to expand...

The conquest of territory by force is illegal.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
Click to expand...


You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
Click to expand...


Better back away from the fence, then.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
Click to expand...


Israeli resistance to Islamic terrorism will continue. Don’t worry, you’re safe waging a cut and paste YouTube gee-had from your basement.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.



But this is a good demonstration of the double standards game you play with regards to Israel. 

"Resistance" from Arabs is not illegal, because ... Arabs.  

While any self-defense by Jews is "illegal", because ... Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore never offers a solution just complains.
> 
> 
> 
> Solution for what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Enforce international law.
Click to expand...



Six key Words; “ Live in Peace With Your Neighbors” Show is where the Palestinians have been willing to do that.



*United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194* was adopted on December 11, 1948, near the end of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The Resolution defined principles for reaching a final settlement and returning Palestine refugees to their homes. It resolved that “refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.” (Article 11





  Israel not having any rights to the Western Wall is  “ International Law?” For that reason ALONE there will never be a “ Two State Solution”



PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall

Tinmore HONESTLY believes this is not against " International Law" and perfectly legal.    Ask why Israel should accept this and there will be no response; there never is.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
Click to expand...


Answer my question old man


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
Click to expand...


Name one Mostly Islamic country that is not either a social, economic or political mess.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name one Mostly Islamic country that is not either a social, economic or political mess.
Click to expand...

Name one that does not suffer from foreign intervention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
Click to expand...

There is no legal requirement for two states.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Retrogression. There are no words...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Arab-Moslem Retrogression. There are no words...



There is no “ legal requirement “ for Two States? May 14, 1948 never happened? Seriously, if there is no LEGAL requirement then “ International Law “ does not apply.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab-Moslem Retrogression. There are no words...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no “ legal requirement “ for Two States? May 14, 1948 never happened? Seriously, if there is no LEGAL requirement then “ International Law “ does not apply.
Click to expand...

What law are you talking about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*One on One - Suheir Hammad *


----------



## Hollie

One on One - An Arab Moslem and His gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Randa Abdel-Fattah: What I Couldn't Say, All About Women*

**


----------



## Hollie

The Wondrous Arab-Moslem Social Order. It’s All About The slaves Women


----------



## P F Tinmore

*samih abu zakieh -copper art workshop*

**


----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem Art of Retrogression


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> The Arab-Moslem Art of Retrogression


Why do you keep posting Israel's war crimes?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab-Moslem Art of Retrogression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep posting Israel's war crimes?
Click to expand...


Why do you keep excusing Arab-Moslem incompetence and failure?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name one Mostly Islamic country that is not either a social, economic or political mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one that does not suffer from foreign intervention.
Click to expand...


Did you just answer my question with a question? Rude.


Turkey
KSA
Tunisia
Dubai
Indonesia

Suffer LOL


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
Click to expand...


Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-moslems - because retrogression is a way of life, since 632 CE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
Click to expand...

The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
Click to expand...


Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.



AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_ 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
Click to expand...


It's an interesting question. The two (more) state solution is trying to solve the problem of self-determination for two distinct peoples competing for the same territory.

If you reject the idea that one of those peoples should have self-determination, then two states won't solve that problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."


The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


I am not letting this go, coward. One state or two. What do you want?


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> 
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not letting this go, coward. One state or two. What do you want?
Click to expand...

It is already one state.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not letting this go, coward. One state or two. What do you want?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is already one state.
Click to expand...


Answer the question. One or two?

Don't dodge.

You want it to be one and erradicate the ONLY majority Jewish country. This is what your cowardice won't allow you to state. Sad, really. At least be a man and say it. Here is your problem. Only way that happens is by force. Good luck with that. EVERY majority Muslim country is a problem for modern/Western countries. We don't need another one. I am man enough to speak my mind. Let's see if you are or if you just keep hiding behind your boring video vignettes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is an interesting quest...



P F Tinmore said:


> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

It seems that on agreement of the UN General Assembly, under Chapter XII, UN Charter.

The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down _(all rights and title whatsoever)_ from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.



			
				UN Charter - Chapter XII said:
			
		

> *Article 77*
> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
> 
> * a. territories now held under mandate;*
> 
> *b.* territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
> 
> *c.* territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
> 
> *2* It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.
> 
> *Article 78*
> The trusteeship system *shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations*, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.



Jordan is an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, independent Kingdom 1946, and UN Member. 
Israel became an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, 1948, independent state and UN Member.

I do not believe that the US foresaw the fiasco that the territories that were non-self-governing territories.
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are Article 77a, former Mandate Territories, 1948.  However, these entities are not members of the UN.  As of 2005, the Gaza Strip became self-governing _(such as that mess of criminals are)_ when the Israelis unilaterially withdrew. 

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Answer my question old man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
Click to expand...


I can. He wants an eventual Palestinian majority in Israel annexation to “ Palestine” Did you read his prior post? There is no LEGAL reason why there should even be two Ststes


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for two states.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> 
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
Click to expand...

You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enforce international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
Click to expand...

That's right, the UN cannot make law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is an interesting quest...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It seems that on agreement of the UN General Assembly, under Chapter XII, UN Charter.
> 
> The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down _(all rights and title whatsoever)_ from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter - Chapter XII said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 77*
> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
> 
> * a. territories now held under mandate;*
> 
> *b.* territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
> 
> *c.* territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
> 
> *2* It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.
> 
> *Article 78*
> The trusteeship system *shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations*, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan is an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, independent Kingdom 1946, and UN Member.
> Israel became an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, 1948, independent state and UN Member.
> 
> I do not believe that the US foresaw the fiasco that the territories that were non-self-governing territories.
> The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are Article 77a, former Mandate Territories, 1948.  However, these entities are not members of the UN.  As of 2005, the Gaza Strip became self-governing _(such as that mess of criminals are)_ when the Israelis unilaterially withdrew.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down _(all rights and title whatsoever)_ from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.


I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.



Turkey held the territory.  Turkey unconditionally ceded the territory.  That would make the territory _terra nullius_ (territory under no sovereignty).


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's right, the UN cannot make law.
Click to expand...


Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them. 
   Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The conquest of territory by force is illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's right, the UN cannot make law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them.
> Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> If there is no such thing as “ International Law”


I didn't say that.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is an interesting quest...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It seems that on agreement of the UN General Assembly, under Chapter XII, UN Charter.
> 
> The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down _(all rights and title whatsoever)_ from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN Charter - Chapter XII said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 77*
> *1* The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:
> 
> * a. territories now held under mandate;*
> 
> *b.* territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
> 
> *c.* territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
> 
> *2* It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.
> 
> *Article 78*
> The trusteeship system *shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations*, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jordan is an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, independent Kingdom 1946, and UN Member.
> Israel became an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, 1948, independent state and UN Member.
> 
> I do not believe that the US foresaw the fiasco that the territories that were non-self-governing territories.
> The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are Article 77a, former Mandate Territories, 1948.  However, these entities are not members of the UN.  As of 2005, the Gaza Strip became self-governing _(such as that mess of criminals are)_ when the Israelis unilaterially withdrew.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down _(all rights and title whatsoever)_ from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.
Click to expand...


The UN never gave away any land.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
Click to expand...


The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?
> 
> There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's right, the UN cannot make law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them.
> Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no such thing as “ International Law”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say that.
Click to expand...


UN is antisemriic and useless. Watch Hotel Rwanda. Don’t care what they say or think.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey held the territory.  Turkey unconditionally ceded the territory.  That would make the territory _terra nullius_ (territory under no sovereignty).
Click to expand...

The territories went directly to the successor states. There was no middle man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Click to expand...

Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
Click to expand...


So I answered you now Answer me. Man up.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The territories went directly to the successor states. There was no middle man.



Um.  Sure. You got a link to that?  The only way to pretend that is true is to try to pretend that the whole, you know, MANDATE thing never happened.  And that the Treaty of Lausanne doesn't actually say what the Treaty actually says.  

Turkey ceded the land unconditionally.  It did not cede it to other sovereign entities.  Why?  Because at the time (1924) there WERE NONE.  That makes the land terra nullius.  By definition.  You can't cede territory to entities which do not exist.  There is no way around that.  The status of the territory changed from terra nullius to sovereign as each territory gained sovereignty through achieving a set of standards, declaration and recognition.  (Which Arab Palestine has yet to achieve.)


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
Click to expand...


No reason to believe that.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.



Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Islamic governments are corrupt. Palestine, Iran, Iraq, KSA, Turkey...I can go on and on


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So I answered you now Answer me. Man up.
Click to expand...


He won’t. He wants Israel to be annexed to “ Palestine “


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to answer me or not?
> 
> A) One State
> 
> B) Two State
> 
> What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The idea of an _*Arab Palestinian Acceptable*_ → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State.  This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. _ (Death by a thousand cuts.)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN had the authority to divide a country?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!
> 
> Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not answered mine.
> 
> BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Click to expand...


They could have had won before 1967


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?


Where does it say they do not?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
Click to expand...


Wow.  You really do play odd games.  

Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof to the contrary?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
Click to expand...


Yawn...,  More proof again that he does not believe in “ The Two State” Solution nor does he feel the Jews have any rights there. With that kind of “ mindset” why should the Israelis give in to all demands? Every time he posts he actually gives good reasons as to why Israel should not do it


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
Click to expand...



I think you are in blatant denial of obvious reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are in blatant denial of obvious reality.
Click to expand...


The usual dance.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are in blatant denial of obvious reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual dance.
Click to expand...


I'm not dancing. You are the one claiming that a state of Palestine exists in the whole of the territory and Israel does not exist at all. You are delusional.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please clarify what you mean here.  You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?  That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are in blatant denial of obvious reality.
Click to expand...

Must not be that obvious. I don't see a link.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say they do not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  You really do play odd games.
> 
> Are you saying a one state solution has been achieved?  Or a two state solution has been achieved?  Because I KNOW you agree with me (and you are entirely correct) that there is no border or division between Israel and "Palestine".  So it seems to me that you are saying that a one state solution -- the one state solution being Arab Palestine -- has been achieved, if only the pesky Jews would get off Arab Palestinian land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have any proof to the contrary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are in blatant denial of obvious reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The usual dance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not dancing. You are the one claiming that a state of Palestine exists in the whole of the territory and Israel does not exist at all. You are delusional.
Click to expand...


It’s extremely frustrating for him that Israel does exist. I love ❤️ the way he speaks about “ International Law” then states the U.N. had no authority to make it or his ignoring the PLO stance that Israel has no right to the Western Wall . So now I will dance.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The material effects of the socio-political disease afflicting Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Finally Released: Censored Al Jazeera Documentary Exposes Israel-Backed Attacks on US Activists*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Finally Released: Censored Al Jazeera Documentary Exposes Israel-Backed Attacks on US Activists*
> 
> **



Let me understand, anti-Israeli students on campuses physically harm and threaten Jewish students while shouting genocidal slogans and spreading vile antisemitic propaganda, but You're focused on another conspiracy theory to blame it on the people being attacked?


----------



## Hollie

So, what are priorities for welfare dollars in the Arab-Moslem socio-political order: gee-had or indoor plumbing?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The Arab-Moslem social order: water from a bucket, open defecation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

The wonders of Palestinian education


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Education in the Death Cult


----------



## Hollie

palinfo  +1800deathcult


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Citizens of Israel: Domestic Politics, Representation, and Civil Rights*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Citizens of Israel: Domestic Politics, Representation, and Civil Rights*
> 
> **



She's a member of the Israeli parliament,3rd biggest party, can You name one Jew who was allowed in Palestinian elections?

Oh right, Arabs outside of Israel don't have elections.


----------



## Hollie

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Citizens of Israel: Domestic Politics, Representation, and Civil Rights*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's a member of the Israeli parliament,3rd biggest party, can You name one Jew who was allowed in Palestinian elections?
> 
> Oh right, Arabs outside of Israel don't have elections.
Click to expand...


It’s funny to see the endless YouTube videos with the “apartheid” theme that Tinmore dumps in the thread while he is oblivious to Arab-Moslem representation in Israel and the Israeli government. Yet, he never fails to sidestep and shuffle off when confronted with the reality of the _Judenrein_ mini-caliphates just beyond the Israeli border.


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Citizens of Israel: Domestic Politics, Representation, and Civil Rights*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's a member of the Israeli parliament,3rd biggest party, can You name one Jew who was allowed in Palestinian elections?
> 
> Oh right, Arabs outside of Israel don't have elections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s funny to see the endless YouTube videos with the “apartheid” theme that Tinmore dumps in the thread while he is oblivious to Arab-Moslem representation in Israel and the Israeli government. Yet, he never fails to sidestep and shuffle off when confronted with the reality of the _Judenrein_ mini-caliphates just beyond the Israeli border.
Click to expand...


The whole world is fighting with the Caliphate, only hypocrites demand that Israel should give Hamas a different treatment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Global Challenges Facing Women & Girls | Amani Al-Khatahtbeh*

**


----------



## rylah

*Hamas facing global challenges protecting the Right Of Women To Suicide.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Leila Al Marayati*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Authority admits that Hamas is sending women and children to their deaths*


----------



## Hollie

*The islamist gee-had carries consequences.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MIKO PELED, HALA ALYAN at WORLD CAN'T WAIT event*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces demolish 16 Palestinian properties


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Stay human - Capitolo 8 - Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Stay human - Capitolo 8 - Huwaida Arraf*
> 
> **



These people are receiving tons of humanitarian aid and support from Israel on a daily basis.
Before preaching about humanity stop sending Your children to suicide missions.


----------



## rylah

*Muslim Woman From Gaza Brings Child To Israeli Hospital. Hopes He Grows Up To Be Suicide Bomber*


----------



## Mindful

Gaza 2018: Best of Gaza Tourism - TripAdvisor


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Is a Sovereign Palestine Still Possible?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah: Palestine Needs Global Solidarity To Overcome Its Apartheid*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah: Palestine Needs Global Solidarity To Overcome Its Apartheid*



Islamic apartheid (_Judenrein Gaza) _can be overcome with global solidarity to reject Islamist fascism.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Is a Sovereign Palestine Still Possible?*



No. The competing Islamic terrorist franchises / welfare frauds in Gaza’istan and Fatah’istan are still viciously hostile to each other.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Muhammud and the social, environmental disaster of Islamic terrorists.






*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*

**


----------



## Hollie

Taming the Islamic trrrorist beast


----------



## theliq

Hollie said:


> Taming the Islamic trrrorist beast


The Zionist Terrorist Beast was/is a thousand times worse,why don't you give us an exposae of Zionist Terrorism 1939 to 1967,I for one would be interested,you know the Crimes against the Palestinians...steven


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> *Palestinian Authority admits that Hamas is sending women and children to their deaths*


Both sides need to TALK rationally


----------



## Mindful

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Authority admits that Hamas is sending women and children to their deaths*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both sides need to TALK rationally
Click to expand...


Yeah right.


----------



## Mindful

Has this woman ever talked rationally?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Has this woman ever talked rationally?


Israel wishes it had someone of this stature.

*Hanan Ashrawi - 2008 Honorary Doctorate*

**


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> Has this woman ever talked rationally?



A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
We're not supposed to ask hard questions.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel wishes it had someone of this stature.
> 
> *Hanan Ashrawi - 2008 Honorary Doctorate*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


I'm not impressed.


She could have the Nobel "peace" Prize for all I care.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel wishes it had someone of this stature.


Is this a joke??
I didn't see a single Palestinian running the government, who actually had appropriate credentials for governmental work. Honorary doctorates, are not given for actual work, and are not given for academic achievements.

Bragging about their unprofessional leaders, makes the Palestinian agenda look even more ridiculous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
Click to expand...

A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
Click to expand...



I bet your over active typing fingers could hardly contain themselves  researching that tidbit.

Queen of delusion


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
Click to expand...


A bourgeois who's family never left the position of power since the Ottoman days.
Is it a Christian thing to rule over people with Sharia?


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bourgeois government employee who's family never left the position of power since the Ottoman days.
> Since when did Sharia become a Christian thing?
Click to expand...


Tinmore's oust is tantamount to pointing the finger at Muslims.


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> Has this woman ever talked rationally?


The Lady in question is the most rational of all the spokespersons in this schism from both sides(had you ever bothered to listen to her,without your blinkered Zionist position) she would make an excellent 1st Prime Minister of Palestine,in my opinion.

Mindie,we all have a view but if we all wish to move forward,ridicule of personalities(which I am one) has to cease...I and thee are similar,our passion sometimes rule our grey cells...I need to Stop and so do you...to move forward...Soon Forward  
I WILL TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY to wish you and your family and friends Sincere Seasons Greetings,take care and enjoy...steve


----------



## theliq

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bourgeois government employee who's family never left the position of power since the Ottoman days.
> Since when did Sharia become a Christian thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tinmore's oust is tantamount to pointing the finger at Muslims.
Click to expand...

No it isn't,he was merely stating a fact,No More,No Less   st


----------



## theliq

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bourgeois who's family never left the position of power since the Ottoman days.
> Is it a Christian thing to rule over people with Sharia?
Click to expand...

STOP friend being silly...steve


----------



## rylah

theliq said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has this woman ever talked rationally?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A top society Palestinian bourgeois running her Sharia government, blames it all on Jews.
> We're not supposed to ask hard questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Christian woman in a "Muslim" country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bourgeois who's family never left the position of power since the Ottoman days.
> Is it a Christian thing to rule over people with Sharia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> STOP friend being silly...steve
Click to expand...


Enemies of the Jewish people are not my friends.
If You can't answer the question don't bother me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamics - making the world a worse place, since 632 CE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians *

States and international institutions should not be selective in championing the dignity of human life. Yemenis and Palestinians are not lesser humans.

*Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The "Palestinian Civil Society (PCS) boasted of a partnership (?) with the United Nations Development 
Programme / Programme of Assistance to the Palestinian People (UNDP/PAPP) and wants to be considered as a National and international non-governmental organization (NGO).



P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians *
> 
> States and international institutions should not be selective in championing the dignity of human life. Yemenis and Palestinians are not lesser humans.
> 
> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians*


*(COMMENT)*

One has to be careful that you do not get confused between multifaceted the organization, the NGO proper, and its many faces, → with the → concepts of a society that organizes the resources at the local community level for the purpose of enhanced development.  The PCS _(the organization)_ is a non-profit organization.  PCS is NOT apolitical.  PCS is clearly involved in political - as well as - humanitarian work _(in some communities, there is economic and social development and advice)_.    The organization has three legs that do not (yet) seemed to be directed by an effective central leadership. 

◈  The HAMAS Friendly Face that support HAMAS 
◈  The Palestinian Authority Freindly Face (basically the Ramallah Government
◈  An affiliated _(yet independent)_ supporting democratic views with a liberal twist​
So depends on who you talk to, you might get different answers to the questions of influence and control.  It is not an NGO that is unbiased.  It has an agenda, trying to open-up communication lines to organizations like the UN Palestinian Rights Commission, to help the citizens to move forward through a kind of Palestinian Development Gateway (PDG). 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israeli band.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, those beaches in Gaza are beautiful.
Can't wait to return there.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians *
> 
> States and international institutions should not be selective in championing the dignity of human life. Yemenis and Palestinians are not lesser humans.
> 
> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians*




Am I the only one seeing the irony of Palestinians calling for an embargo against Israel?


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians *
> 
> States and international institutions should not be selective in championing the dignity of human life. Yemenis and Palestinians are not lesser humans.
> 
> *Palestinian Civil Society Urges World Governments to Impose a Military Embargo on Saudi Regime Over Khashoggi Murder and War Crimes in Yemen, On Israel for War Crimes and Apartheid Against Palestinians*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one seeing the irony of Palestinians calling for an embargo against Israel?
Click to expand...


I thought Arab-Moslem “civil society” was worth a laugh.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  [URL='http://www.usmessageboard.com/posts/21277004/']Palestine Today[/URL]
⁜→ Hollie, et al,

What I thought was kind of interesting is that two of the four nations mentioned (Saudi Arabia, UAE") are members of the Arab League.  



Hollie said:


> I thought Arab-Moslem “civil society” was worth a laugh.


*(COMMENT)*

The PCS implied that these nations were involved in "perpetrating crimes against humanity and war crimes."  

Say it ain't so_*! *_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## theliq

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> What I thought was kind of interesting is that two of the four nations mentioned (Saudi Arabia, UAE") are members of the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Arab-Moslem “civil society” was worth a laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PCS implied that these nations were involved in "perpetrating crimes against humanity and war crimes."
> 
> Say it ain't so_*! *_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They were and have,Rocco what Planet have you been living on...steve


----------



## theliq

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How desperate !!!
Click to expand...

WHY?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ theliq, et al,

I'm neither suggesting the implication is either right or wrong. 



theliq said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Hollie, et al,
> 
> What I thought was kind of interesting is that two of the four nations mentioned (Saudi Arabia, UAE") are members of the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Arab-Moslem “civil society” was worth a laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The PCS implied that these nations were involved in "perpetrating crimes against humanity and war crimes."
> 
> Say it ain't so_*! *_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were and have,Rocco what Planet have you been living on...steve
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But for the PCS to make such a suggestion is ridiculous.  The Arab Palestinians use force and threats every day.  They use civilians as cover for sapper operations nearly every day.  And they use minors to launch incendiary devices every day.

I don't think the PCS is much of a credible source.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What was the amount of "charity" they've funneled into Jihadi hands?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Codepink built a playground at beach camp in Gaza*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was the amount of "charity" they've funneled into Jihadi hands?
Click to expand...

They distributed aid through the same organizations as USAID.


----------



## rylah

*U.S. vs Holy Land Foundation*

This feature video reveals the greatest terrorism trial on United States soil, in which the largest islamic charity in the United States was indicted and found guilty. It shares excerpts from actual documents accepted as valid by the defendants and submitted at trial without protest.


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Wallowing in their own excrement while setting priorities about the importance of gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*PA to again allow Gazan patients to be treated in Israeli hospitals*
*Outcry after deaths of three babies prompts Palestinian Health Ministry to issue more permits and funding for treatment*

The Palestinian Authority will reportedly once again allow patients from the Gaza Strip to be treated in Israel after three babies died on Tuesday in the enclave controlled by the Hamas terror group.

Following an international outcry over the deaths, the Palestinian Health Ministry will on Sunday increase the number of permits it issues for Gaza residents to receive medical care in Israel, the Haaretz newspaper reported on Friday.

The Palestinian Authority has severely cut back on medical aid to the Gaza Strip as part of a series of tough measures aimed at forcing Hamas to cede control of the coastal enclave, including reducing the amount of electricity it provides the Strip and slashing PA salaries to Gaza residents.

The Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry blamed the Palestinian Authority for the deaths of the three babies, all less than a year old, saying Ramallah has refused to grant permits for them to be treated in Israel.

To leave Gaza and travel to Israel for medical treatment, or to receive treatment in the West Bank or abroad, Gazans must first get confirmation from the PA that it will pay for the treatments.


----------



## rylah

The Palestinian Authority says it has detained a Palestinian American for more than a month on suspicion of selling property to Jewish buyers, and this week, it extended his arrest another 45 days.

Israeli officials say Issam Aqel was arrested Oct 11.

The Palestinian Authority Attorney General’s office says Palestinian officials detained Issam Aqel in early October on suspicion of transferring Palestinian property to what it deems a hostile state.

Aqel is accused of selling property in the Old City of Jerusalem to Jewish settlers, a move that Palestinians condemn in the Israeli Palestinian battle over the city. When contacted by NPR, Aqel’s family declined comment.

Aqel is a Palestinian resident of Jerusalem, with Israeli residency, and a US citizen. A State Department official says US consular officials in Jerusalem are providing assistance to a US citizen detained by the Palestinian Authority.

According to court documents, Israeli officials say they are seeking Aqel's release. Israeli police arrested the Palestinian Authority governor of Jerusalem, whom they suspect of being involved in Aqel’s arrest.

Daniel Estrin on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Arab-Islamist Peace Plan






*


----------



## Hollie

*Sleepless (and absent indoor plumbing) Gaza’istan 





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Suheir Hamad Poetry: On the Brink of... for Rachel Corrie*

**


----------



## Hollie

The wondrous, retrograde Islamist social order.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Sleepless in Islamic Terrorist’istan 





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

In Photos: Israel releases two 15-year-old Palestinian boys after three years of prison


----------



## Hollie

In Photos, those delicate Arab-Moslem snowflakes in the Hamas version of the Hitler Youth camps.


----------



## P F Tinmore

You gotta love Palestinian women.


----------



## Hollie

Ya’ Allah, ya gotta love Arab-Moslem Death Cultists


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINE MEDIA FORUM: Interview with Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Arab-Moslem Cultural Proclivities


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Avraham Burg, Jafar Farah, Nadia Ben-Youssef discuss Arab unity in Israel*

**


----------



## Hollie

Arab-Islamist Unity In Retrogression


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Avraham Burg, Jafar Farah, Nadia Ben-Youssef discuss Arab unity in Israel*
> 
> **



*The king is naked -* is when You have not a single Jew in Palestinian parliament,
while projecting their apparent racism on Israel, a state where minorities have the 3rd biggest party.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Well, BDS forces thousands of Palestinians out of their jobs.
Ain't that fun when the boomerang hits You on the head?


----------



## Mindful

Hollie said:


> Arab-Islamist Unity In Retrogression



Looks like Paris.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Hamas version of the Hitler Youth


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



“ From the River to the Sea “ Palestine “ must be free. If you have recently looked at a map that would include all of Israel since ‘48.
You object because a commentator (don’t even know why he was  there) publicity called for Israel’s destruction and he was fired?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

War crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Do Palestinians ever have the right of self-defence against Israel?*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


>


*Dr Marc Lamont Hill talks about his trip to Palestine*

**


----------



## Hollie

*IDF Talks About Their Trip to Islamic Terrorist'istan


*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Marc Lamont Hill talks about his trip to Palestine*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


I love ❤️ the way he talks about “ Historic Palestine “ which includes all of Israel, Nothing about “ 67 Borders “ You should actually try to read what you post. I didn’t hear him mention “ The Two State Solution” which is not the goal of the Palestinians. Keep posting!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh please.  There is nothing worse than someone claiming to talk about international law and then, you know, never bringing up any actual international law.  Sheesh.

She opens with a question:  _"Can the State of Israel as it was established and in the way that it currently maintains itself be a State which complies with the rules of international law and respects Palestinian's human rights?"_

Let's just regurgitate that question in a way which is objective and doesn't single out Israel:  Can a state be a state which complies with the rules of international law and respects human rights?"

The answer seems somewhat obvious.  Yes, yes a state can be a state which complies with the rules of international law and respects human rights.

What, then is the problem with Israel which specifically and inherently prevents her from being a state which complies with the rules of international law and human rights?

According to her, it is Israel's definition as a Jewish State or a State for the Jewish people.  She says:  _"Jewish State as Israel defines itself which is that Jews are defined as a national and ethnic group ... and the state is a state of the Jewish people.  It privileges Jews in its laws, policies, practices and institutions ... tries to maintain a Jewish majority population ....  And therein lies the problem ... Its Jewish character means that inevitably carries out international law violations and that compliance with international law would lead to unravelling its Jewish character._ _It purports to represent an ethnic group which is different than the indigenous ethnic group of the territory that it controls._

Let's break up that party in a way which is objective and doesn't single out Israel:  A State which defines itself by a national and ethnic group and is a state of the people of that ethnic group privileges the people of that ethnic group in its laws, policies, practices and institutions.  Having the character of an ethnic group means that it inevitably carries out international law violations and that compliance with international law would lead to unravelling its ethnic character. It purports to represent an ethnic group which is different than the indigenous ethnic group of the territory that it controls.

*She is saying that it is a violation of international law to define a state by a national and ethnic group.  She is saying it is a violation of international law to establish a state based on a national or ethnic group.  She is saying that any state which has the character of an ethnic group violates international law and compliance with law can only occur when a state rejects its ethnic character.  She is saying that the only viable state which can comply with international law is where the government represents the ethnic group of the indigenous peoples.  *

Wow.  That is an ASTONISHING claim.  Truly, ridiculously, astonishing.  I would really, really like to see her links on that.  Because I can not think of a single State in the world that complies with that (cough cough) interpretation of international law.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Marc Lamont Hill talks about his trip to Palestine*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


_2604 years after the Dispersion.  2604 years after Jewish land was stolen.  2604 years after the Jewish people were dislocated, pushed from their homes, killed.  2604 years of the international community watched vulnerable Jews have their lives taken, we remain committed ... until every single Jew is home again._ 


There.  Fixed it for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Journalists Syndicate accuses CNN of consenting to 'Zionist lobby' *

“We cannot endorse a narrow politics of respectability that shames Palestinians for resisting, for refusing to do nothing in the face of state violence and ethnic cleansing.” 

The Palestinian group said it wanted to honor Hill for his “courageous positions.” CNN’s decision to sever ties with Hill, it added, was a “blatant violation of freedom of expression and blind bias in favor of the occupation and colonialism.”

The decision, it added, “exposes the falsity of CNN’s claim to be objective and neutral.” The group also accused CNN of “abandoning the ethics of journalism” by firing the American academic.

Palestinian journalists are expected to gather on Monday at the Bedouin shantytown of Khan al-Ahmar east of Jerusalem – whose residents are facing eviction – to express their support for Hill.‭‮

Palestinian Journalists Syndicate accuses CNN to consent to 'Zionist lobb


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Firing Marc Lamont Hill Would Violate the First Amendment*

_Palestine Legal issued the following statement today, in response to an __escalating campaign__ calling on Temple University to fire Professor of Media Studies and Urban Education Marc Lamont Hill, and following CNN’s termination of its contract with him on Thursday, November 29, only 24 hours after he called for equal rights for all in historic Palestine in a __speech__ at a United Nations event marking the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. 
_
To show your support for Hill: 


Call or write CNN and tell them you disapprove of their silencing of a critical voice for racial justice and human rights, including Palestinian rights.


Write Temple’s Board of Trustees (trustees@temple.edu) and tell them you support Hill, and that they have a legal obligation to protect Hill from the pressure campaign to undermine him for his principled support for full equality for Palestinians.


Show your support on social media by tweeting at @marclamonthill, @CNN and @TempleUniv, with the hashtag #IStandWithMLH


Sign petitions in support of Hill:

Action Network


IfNotNow


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The decision, it added, “exposes the falsity of CNN’s claim to be objective and neutral.”



Wait, what?!  So, the declaration "from the river to the sea" is objective and neutral?!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> _ after he called for equal rights for all in historic Palestine in a __speech__ at a United Nations event marking the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. _


_
_
Please.  A call for "equal rights" would be something like, "BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people have a long history in the territory and have the rights to self-determination, respect and recognition."

AND, if the call was for equal rights, it would be an United Nations event marking the International Day of Solidarity with the Jewish and Arab people of Israel and Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The decision, it added, “exposes the falsity of CNN’s claim to be objective and neutral.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So, the declaration "from the river to the sea" is objective and neutral?!
Click to expand...


Don’t you love the way Mark Hill talks about “ peaceful protesters??


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The decision, it added, “exposes the falsity of CNN’s claim to be objective and neutral.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So, the declaration "from the river to the sea" is objective and neutral?!
Click to expand...


Not going to get a response. He never responds to a question he doesn’t like


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*'The Tower' screens at opening of Palestine Cinema Days in Ramallah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorist Misfits and Threats of Islamic Terrorism


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> Islamic Terrorist Misfits and Threats of Islamic Terrorism



If Hamas tries it Israel will have excellent reason to carpet bomb them once and for all


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Palestinian filmmaker Mai Masry*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Cinema in the Days of Revolution*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Pallywood Cinema - Everyday


*


----------



## Hossfly

To General P F Tinmore 

Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link. 



ISRAEL NEWS
*IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*

The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.


The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.


Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.


IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel



I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.

And to think I wanted to visit Beirut. 

No way,  now.


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.
> 
> And to think I wanted to visit Beirut.
> 
> No way,  now.
Click to expand...


I was in Beirut during the Lebanese Crisis in August-September 1958 with Operation Blue Bat. We occupied the port and the Beirut Int'l Airport while the Lebanese Army whupped the bad guys. Beirut is a beautiful city and I was impressed by the people. Of course the bad guys finally won while we were involved with Vietnam.


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.
> 
> And to think I wanted to visit Beirut.
> 
> No way,  now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was in Beirut during the Lebanese Crisis in August-September 1958 with Operation Blue Bat. We occupied the port and the Beirut Int'l Airport while the Lebanese Army whupped the bad guys. Beirut is a beautiful city and I was impressed by the people. Of course the bad guys finally won while we were involved with Vietnam.
Click to expand...


I heard it was a beautiful city. The jewel of the Middle East.


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.
> 
> And to think I wanted to visit Beirut.
> 
> No way,  now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was in Beirut during the Lebanese Crisis in August-September 1958 with Operation Blue Bat. We occupied the port and the Beirut Int'l Airport while the Lebanese Army whupped the bad guys. Beirut is a beautiful city and I was impressed by the people. Of course the bad guys finally won while we were involved with Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard it was a beautiful city. The jewel of the Middle East.
Click to expand...

Yes . It is called "Paris of the Middle East."


----------



## TrueTT

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.
> 
> And to think I wanted to visit Beirut.
> 
> No way,  now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was in Beirut during the Lebanese Crisis in August-September 1958 with Operation Blue Bat. We occupied the port and the Beirut Int'l Airport while the Lebanese Army whupped the bad guys. Beirut is a beautiful city and I was impressed by the people. Of course the bad guys finally won while we were involved with Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard it was a beautiful city. The jewel of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes . It is called "Paris of the Middle East."
Click to expand...


It *was* called that.

Beirut stopped being that come the 70s and the demographic shifts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

TrueTT said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> To General P F Tinmore
> 
> Your troops in Palestine need to check every tunnel from Gaza and Lebanon before going shopping in Israel. The IDF has another trick up their sleeve. Watch the  0:53 video in the link.
> 
> 
> 
> ISRAEL NEWS
> *IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel*
> 
> The IDF surprised this Hezbollah operative before he could surprise Israeli civilians. Take a look at what the IDF caught on camera from inside a terror tunnel dug from Lebanon into Israel.
> 
> 
> The IDF official in the video explains how a camera was booby-trapped with a small bomb and it blew up when the Hezbollah operative approached. The Hezbollah now know that we have infiltrated their underground terror tunnels and we will destroy them, destroying their underground strategic plan to attack Israel.
> 
> 
> Israel and the IDF understand that the next big war is a two-front war against Iran. Iran has developed a strong front on Israel’s Northern border in Lebanon with their Hezbollah proxy as well as a strong front on Israel’s Southern border in Gaza with their Hamas proxy. Israel has destroyed the terror attack tunnels from Gaza and now we are destroying the terror attack tunnels from Lebanon.
> 
> 
> IDF camera bomb explodes in face of Hezbollah terrorist in Terror Tunnel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a TV programme on that Hezbollah enclave in southern Lebanon. There's a checkpoint just to get in there.
> 
> And to think I wanted to visit Beirut.
> 
> No way,  now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was in Beirut during the Lebanese Crisis in August-September 1958 with Operation Blue Bat. We occupied the port and the Beirut Int'l Airport while the Lebanese Army whupped the bad guys. Beirut is a beautiful city and I was impressed by the people. Of course the bad guys finally won while we were involved with Vietnam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard it was a beautiful city. The jewel of the Middle East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes . It is called "Paris of the Middle East."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It *was* called that.
> 
> Beirut stopped being that come the 70s and the demographic shifts.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there has been a lot of foreign intervention.


----------



## Mindful

Is it any safer where I live now?

Each  time I walk out the door, concrete road blocks and security guys at every entrance to the Christmas market.

At night, armed police, German and American, patrol the area.


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly; the BBC has recently screened a dramatisation of the spy thriller,  "The Little Drummer Girl". Showing in the US too, I think.

A terrorist training camp in Lebanon was enacted. I wonder if that still goes on today.


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Hossfly; the BBC has recently screened a dramatisation of the spy thriller,  "The Little Drummer Girl". Showing in the US too, I think.
> 
> A terrorist training camp in Lebanon was enacted. I wonder if that still goes on today.


I would bet on it. There are terrorist training camps in the US too.


----------



## Mindful

Mindful said:


> Is it any safer where I live now?
> 
> Each  time I walk out the door, concrete road blocks and security guys at every entrance to the Christmas market.
> 
> At night, armed police, German and American, patrol the area.



The irony is, those security  guys are Turkish.


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly; the BBC has recently screened a dramatisation of the spy thriller,  "The Little Drummer Girl". Showing in the US too, I think.
> 
> A terrorist training camp in Lebanon was enacted. I wonder if that still goes on today.
> 
> 
> 
> I would bet on it. There are terrorist training camps in the US too.
Click to expand...


How do they escape detection?


----------



## Hossfly

Mindful said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly; the BBC has recently screened a dramatisation of the spy thriller,  "The Little Drummer Girl". Showing in the US too, I think.
> 
> A terrorist training camp in Lebanon was enacted. I wonder if that still goes on today.
> 
> 
> 
> I would bet on it. There are terrorist training camps in the US too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do they escape detection?
Click to expand...

I read the other day about a terror stronghold, I think somewhere in New York, that was raided. The police knew about the place but never had reason to check it. People always heard shooting and explosions but they weren't threatened by anyone. Then one of the members went into town and tried to rob a gun store of weapons and ammo. That gave the police reason to get a warrant. They busted a lot of people but I haven't heard much about it. I'll try to find the article which I may have deleted. Maybe someone here has some info about the case..


----------



## Mindful

Hossfly said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly; the BBC has recently screened a dramatisation of the spy thriller,  "The Little Drummer Girl". Showing in the US too, I think.
> 
> A terrorist training camp in Lebanon was enacted. I wonder if that still goes on today.
> 
> 
> 
> I would bet on it. There are terrorist training camps in the US too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do they escape detection?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read the other day about a terror stronghold, I think somewhere in New York, that was raided. The police knew about the place but never had reason to check it. People always heard shooting and explosions but they weren't threatened by anyone. Then one of the members went into town and tried to rob a gun store of weapons and ammo. That gave the police reason to get a warrant. They busted a lot of people but I haven't heard much about it. I'll try to find the article which I may have deleted. Maybe someone here has some info about the case..
Click to expand...


The German police foil several terror  plots a month. They're very good at it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Growing Voices Among Palestinians Calling for a Single Democratic Secular State*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Growing Voices Among Palestinians Calling for a Single Democratic Secular State*
> 
> **



Those guys can barely have a single election without throwing opponents from rooftops.
Do they even slightly understand what democracy means?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Growing Voices Among Palestinians Calling for a Single Democratic Secular State*
> 
> **



As you understand democracy, you mean?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Growing Voices Among Palestinians Calling for a Single Democratic Secular State*



If you dun’ seen it on the YouTube, it must be true.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

It is supposedly  fine for Mahmoud Abbas and his officials to condemn  Hamas on a daily basis. It is supposedly not fine, however, for the US administration to condemn Hamas for its terrorist attacks against Israel.


"The proposed [unseen] US resolution is harmful to the Palestinians' right of resistance." — Emad Omar, Palestinian political analyst.


This is obviously a short-lived honeymoon that will end the day after the UN General Assembly vote on the anti-Hamas resolution. The morning after the vote, Abbas will wake up to the realization that Hamas was a strange bedfellow indeed.

Palestinians: No Difference Between Hamas and Fatah


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Keynote Lecture by Dr. Riyad H. Mansour*


----------



## Hollie

Those angry retrogrades within the competing mini-caliphates are still at each other’s throats.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Education in the Death Cult


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Those angry retrogrades within the competing mini-caliphates are still at each other’s throats.


Still trying to complete the coup against the elected government.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mayhem versus sanity in Western Asia: Why Palestine is still the issue*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Mayhem is the norm in the Arab-Moslem Death Cult


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib & Jamal Simmons - 2018 Bend Toward Justice Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie

Death Cult Justice


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Remember that time when the left was praising  Linda Sarsour for her fundraising efforts for the Jewish community in Pittsburgh?

Well, it was a scam...money went to an Islamic center with terror ties.






WOW: Money Raised After Pittsburgh Shooting Went To An Islamic Center With Terror Ties


----------



## rylah

*Boy sings on PA TV: “Jihad is necessary… Draw your sword from its sheath, and let it not return”*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*KinderUSA with Dr. Laila Al-Marayati*

**


----------



## Hollie

*KinderCult of the Islamic Terrorist variety

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 DLPP Winner in Fiction Hala Alyan*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Winners in Koranic fiction 


*


----------



## Mindful

From The Economist.

In Sinai there were settlements .
In Gaza there were settlements .
Where are they now?
Removed for the sake of peace
What are the results so far?
A cold , possibly disappearing peace with Egypt
Rockets from Gaza
The settlements are an Arab red herring to avoid any agreement
I think there will be movement only after the hereditary Palestianian question is resolved
After that , everything could move forward


----------



## P F Tinmore

OUR TEAM — Adalah Justice Project


----------



## Mindful

The Palestinian Refugees: Israel Proposes Rehabilitation of Refugees.

July 28th. 1966


This telegram from the U.S. Department of State updates the U.S. Embassy in Israel of a meeting between the U.S. Secretary of State and Israeli Ambassador Harmon and Envoy Gideon Rafael in which the Israelis proposed a solution to the refugee problemin which the focus would be on getting Arabs out of camps and rehabilitating them into the Arab world instead of merely focusing on repatriating them but keeping them in camps. Israel agreed that they would provide some financial support in the form of international financial assistance.

Washington, July 28, 1966, 3:49 p.m.

Israel Proposes Rehabilitation of Palestinian Refugees


----------



## P F Tinmore

While Palestinians viewed Zionists as akin to colonial settlers, Jews who were willing to live as equals with the Palestinians were welcome to stay. In his 1974 speech to the UN, Fatah leader and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat declared, “when we speak of our common hopes for the Palestine of tomorrow we include in our perspective all Jews now living in Palestine who choose to live with us there in peace and without discrimination.”
Read more: Opinion | ‘From The River To The Sea’ Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> While Palestinians viewed Zionists as akin to colonial settlers, Jews who were willing to live as equals with the Palestinians were welcome to stay. In his 1974 speech to the UN, Fatah leader and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat declared, “when we speak of our common hopes for the Palestine of tomorrow we include in our perspective all Jews now living in Palestine who choose to live with us there in peace and without discrimination.”
> Read more: Opinion | ‘From The River To The Sea’ Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means



Just like the rest of the Jew haters here,
Arafat was a famous two-faced racist lier 'Jews will leave Palestine like rats'


----------



## Hollie

Your Islamic terrorist welfare dollars at work.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. Why is he holding a Jordanian flag?


----------



## Hollie

Billions in welfare dollars wasted on Arabs-Moslems who choose living in filth rather than building a functioning society.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Is a Sovereign Palestine Still Possible?*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Is a Sovereign Palestine Still Possible?*



It’s called Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Catholic Focus: Palestinian Liberation Theology ft. Dr. Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## Hollie

Islamist terrorist liberation.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Every word of this is untrue.


----------



## Hollie

Aquifers managed by Islamic terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bethlehem Voice - Vera Baboun*


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems prepared for the global economy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



They're are moving themselves, about 20,000 leave the PA and Hamas enclaves yearly.
The Arab world moves away from the Palestinians as well, they just don't want to report on that and burst Your bubble.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Catholic Focus: Palestinian Liberation Theology ft. Dr. Naim Ateek*



*Palestinian Liberation Theology is Zionism*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*



Is there a special excemption that should be granted  for the Tamimi tribe?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special excemption that should be granted  for the Tamimi tribe?
Click to expand...

No, they should have the same rights that Israel denies to all Palestinians.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special excemption that should be granted  for the Tamimi tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they should have the same rights that Israel denies to all Palestinians.
Click to expand...


So if Israel gives them the same treatment as Hamas and the rest of Arab states give them,
the Tamimis will suddenly stop sending their kids to die for Jihad?


----------



## toastman

Palestinians are at fault for their own situation. Shouldn’t have sent suicide bombers, shouldn’t have built terror tunnels and shouldn’t have sent missiles.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special excemption that should be granted  for the Tamimi tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they should have the same rights that Israel denies to all Palestinians.
Click to expand...


I think you're a bit befuddled. While Israel denies the Arab-Islamic perceived "right" toward murder and mayhem directed at israeli citizens, you will have to find a way to deal with that.

As you are obviously a promoter of rights, discuss for us the rights of Jews in Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seriously injured 15yo among 10 Tamimi family members arrested by IDF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a special excemption that should be granted  for the Tamimi tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they should have the same rights that Israel denies to all Palestinians.
Click to expand...


What rights are the Tamimi family denied?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

You shuffled off as you usually do when pressed to respond.

Complete silence about the rights of Jews in the _Judenrein_ islamic terrorist enclave of Gaza.

Discuss for then the "resistance" of offensive gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Only Palestinian degenerates would refer to suicide missions as "peaceful means of resistance".
Then they will waffle something about having a right to murder Jews as they please, and whine when they're denied that opportunity.

Real degenerates.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



_*"Jihad is the angel of life"...*_
this is the same family that sends their daughters to suicide bombing missions.

 Are You well in the head?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Barghouti Accepts the Gandhi Peace Award *

**


----------



## Hollie

The struggle.

The welfare money.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*"Jihad is the angel of life"...*_
> this is the same family that sends their daughters to suicide bombing missions.
> 
> Are You well in the head?
Click to expand...


Look at the bright side; At least he stopped posting You Tube Videos of HASIDIC JEWS claiming that Israel does not have the Right to exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Panel 1*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on Palestinian Border Protests – November 21, 2018*

**


----------



## Hollie

Various muhammuds at the border gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pro-Palestine Protesters Confront AIPAC 2018*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Panel I of 2017 Palestine Center Annual Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Pallyland Conference*.


----------



## Mindful

I was taking a look at the municipal activities of the Palestinians.

Local government, waste management, road maintenance, and the like.

West Bank Solid Waste Management | Global Partnership on Output-Based Aid


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yeah. I saw pottery like that in Morocco and Tunisia.

Maybe they're all made in China.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

We Invest in Violence and Pray for Welfare Checks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Ben-Youssef*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Panel 2 of 2017 Palestine Center Annual Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Panel 3 of 2018 Arab-Islamic gee-had conference





*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR This one is for you.

*Panel 3 of 2017 Palestine Center Annual Conference*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Conference of Death Cultists





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*In the Room with Amahl Bishara*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Diana Buttu on Palestine and the two-state Solution*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Retrogrades on the One Caliph Solution.





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Listen: LA's Israel lobby fails to ban conference on Palestinian rights *

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2018-11/ayesharababpodcast.mp3


----------



## Hollie

*IDF Conference on Right of Resistance to Islamic Terrorism





*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Panel 2*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Conference of Losers in Life





*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*“The Fence”





*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,

First, let me say that our friend "P F Tinmore" has posted several excellent video presentations of late.  I don't necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed or the attitude toward the recent events along the border and the territories in general; but*!* some of the presentations were very gifted and talented.



P F Tinmore said:


> Dr Noura Erakat, _esq_ Video


*(COMMENT)*

The last recent presentation by Professor Erakat is a great example of an Appeal to the Emotion.  She expertly sets the conditions up front by nailing down that 2 million Palestinians are subject to "horrific violence" and that 45 thousand Palestinians that "_demanding the siege be ended, demanding their rights as refugees be honored, were shot dead by Israeli snipers, killing 65 unarmed Palestinians on their own land_."   Totally misrepresenting the facts, discarding the truth by the wayside, but*!* → the delivery was perfect.

Just remember, when you hear these Arab Palestinian attorneys talk, the law is not about truth or justice.  The law is about the rules, a programmed system of rules _(not to be mistaken for truth or justice)_.  And that is exactly what Professor Erakat delivered; → a story under the Rule of Law; not the Truth in the light of day.  Whoever tells the best story, makes the best presentation, wins the day, the judgment, and the compensation/restitution.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> First, let me say that our friend "P F Tinmore" has posted several excellent video presentations of late.  I don't necessarily agree with the sentiments expressed or the attitude toward the recent events along the border and the territories in general; but*!* some of the presentations were very gifted and talented.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Noura Erakat, _esq_ Video
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The last recent presentation by Professor Erakat is a great example of an Appeal to the Emotion.  She expertly sets the conditions up front by nailing down that 2 million Palestinians are subject to "horrific violence" and that 45 thousand Palestinians that "_demanding the siege be ended, demanding their rights as refugees be honored, were shot dead by Israeli snipers, killing 65 unarmed Palestinians on their own land_."   Totally misrepresenting the facts, discarding the truth by the wayside, but*!* → the delivery was perfect.
> 
> Just remember, when you hear these Arab Palestinian attorneys talk, the law is not about truth or justice.  The law is about the rules, a programmed system of rules _(not to be mistaken for truth or justice)_.  And that is exactly what Professor Erakat delivered; → a story under the Rule of Law; not the Truth in the light of day.  Whoever tells the best story, makes the best presentation, wins the day, the judgment, and the compensation/restitution.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Noura Erakat is intelligent, articulate, and educated. She is a person who can be admired without reservation.

*The Scholars: Noura Erakat*

**
**


----------



## Hollie

Gaza - raw sewage in the streets.

Surf's up!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The situation of human rights in Palestine - Press Conference*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The situation of human rights in Palestine - Press Conference*
> 
> **



Even in the UN only 3 people came to this Pallywood shabang of the welfare cheats??
I'm impressed, thank You.


----------



## rylah

*EU condemns Hamas' death sentences*

A military court in Hamas-run Gaza on Monday sentenced six people, including a woman, to death by hanging over the alleged spying for Israel. In total 14 people were sentenced for "collaborating with the occupation”.

The heads of EU missions in Jerusalem and Ramallah said in a statement quoted by the _Xinhua_news agency that they strongly reject the death penalty, no matter what the circumstances are.

"The abolition of the death penalty contributes to the protection of human dignity and to the progress and development of human rights," said the statement, which denounced the death sentences as "cruel and inhumane."

The EU statement added that "death penalty does not constitute a deterrent to criminal conduct and constitutes an unacceptable denial of human dignity and integrity."

It called on Hamas rulers in Gaza "to refrain from executing any death sentence against the prisoners."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat on Black-Palestinian Solidarity and Palestine As a Progressive Issue*

**


----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamist gee-had at the Israeli border - bring the kids, get shot, it’s a party.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Pre asshole Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



A proud parent.


----------



## Hollie

*One Big Death Cult Party


*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine in US Politics*

**


----------



## Hollie

Pal’istan in Great Satan Politics


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

I am not at all convinced that is is not one of those, use the body of a child to gain "sympathy."

This is child abuse.  To use children on a demonstration line moving forward, knowing that it will meet with armed resistance, is madness on the part of these Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally violating:

◈  24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
The HoAP do not have child abuse laws _per se_. 

◈  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I under International armed conflicts rules.
◈  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II under non-International armed conflicts rules.​This activity is a form of conduct as the foundation for the crime of conspiracy.  It is punishable both in common law and civil law.

The specific here is that the HoAP intentionally set the condition such that the child, who should not be there at all, is put in harm's way by the parents baiting the Israeli Police and Security Forces.  And this is not an isolated event.

The HoAP have been conducting bait operations for decades.  It is the less than moral position for the HoAP to utilizing the presence of children _(protected persons)_ to ensure they are injured during the course of unlawful actions of the parents.



Enven before the birth said:


> Islam is a religion revealed by God for all people, in all places, at all times.  As such, Islam is accessible to everybody and is particularly mindful of the importance of respect, rights, and responsibilities.  The words of the Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, contain the rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind.  They are not subject to the whims and desires of men or women therefore they do not change.  These unique rights mentioned in Islam also include the rights of children.  Children’s rights are not guaranteed by the actions of their parents, their communities, or even their governments.  *God Himself guarantees children’s rights.*
> SOURCE:  *By * Aisha Stacey (© 2010 IslamReligion.com)



"The late Islamic scholar, Sheikh Uthaimeen, may God have mercy on him, described children as a trust given to parents by God." _ibid_

Most Respectfully,
R



P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> I am not at all convinced that is is not one of those, use the body of a child to gain "sympathy."
> 
> This is child abuse.  To use children on a demonstration line moving forward, knowing that it will meet with armed resistance, is madness on the part of these Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally violating:
> 
> ◈  24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> The HoAP do not have child abuse laws _per se_.
> 
> ◈  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I under International armed conflicts rules.
> ◈  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II under non-International armed conflicts rules.​This activity is a form of conduct as the foundation for the crime of conspiracy.  It is punishable both in common law and civil law.
> 
> The specific here is that the HoAP intentionally set the condition such that the child, who should not be there at all, is put in harm's way by the parents baiting the Israeli Police and Security Forces.  And this is not an isolated event.
> 
> The HoAP have been conducting bait operations for decades.  It is the less than moral position for the HoAP to utilizing the presence of children _(protected persons)_ to ensure they are injured during the course of unlawful actions of the parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Enven before the birth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is a religion revealed by God for all people, in all places, at all times.  As such, Islam is accessible to everybody and is particularly mindful of the importance of respect, rights, and responsibilities.  The words of the Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, contain the rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind.  They are not subject to the whims and desires of men or women therefore they do not change.  These unique rights mentioned in Islam also include the rights of children.  Children’s rights are not guaranteed by the actions of their parents, their communities, or even their governments.  *God Himself guarantees children’s rights.*
> SOURCE:  *By * Aisha Stacey (© 2010 IslamReligion.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The late Islamic scholar, Sheikh Uthaimeen, may God have mercy on him, described children as a trust given to parents by God." _ibid_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Israel always targets unarmed civilians.

And you blame the civilians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

Read the law and then get back with me.

v/r
R



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not at all convinced that is is not one of those, use the body of a child to gain "sympathy."
> 
> This is child abuse.  To use children on a demonstration line moving forward, knowing that it will meet with armed resistance, is madness on the part of these Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally violating:
> 
> ◈  24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> The HoAP do not have child abuse laws _per se_.
> 
> ◈  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I under International armed conflicts rules.
> ◈  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II under non-International armed conflicts rules.​This activity is a form of conduct as the foundation for the crime of conspiracy.  It is punishable both in common law and civil law.
> 
> The specific here is that the HoAP intentionally set the condition such that the child, who should not be there at all, is put in harm's way by the parents baiting the Israeli Police and Security Forces.  And this is not an isolated event.
> 
> The HoAP have been conducting bait operations for decades.  It is the less than moral position for the HoAP to utilizing the presence of children _(protected persons)_ to ensure they are injured during the course of unlawful actions of the parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Enven before the birth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is a religion revealed by God for all people, in all places, at all times.  As such, Islam is accessible to everybody and is particularly mindful of the importance of respect, rights, and responsibilities.  The words of the Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, contain the rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind.  They are not subject to the whims and desires of men or women therefore they do not change.  These unique rights mentioned in Islam also include the rights of children.  Children’s rights are not guaranteed by the actions of their parents, their communities, or even their governments.  *God Himself guarantees children’s rights.*
> SOURCE:  *By * Aisha Stacey (© 2010 IslamReligion.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The late Islamic scholar, Sheikh Uthaimeen, may God have mercy on him, described children as a trust given to parents by God." _ibid_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always targets unarmed civilians.
> 
> And you blame the civilians.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> Read the law and then get back with me.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not at all convinced that is is not one of those, use the body of a child to gain "sympathy."
> 
> This is child abuse.  To use children on a demonstration line moving forward, knowing that it will meet with armed resistance, is madness on the part of these Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally violating:
> 
> ◈  24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> The HoAP do not have child abuse laws _per se_.
> 
> ◈  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I under International armed conflicts rules.
> ◈  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II under non-International armed conflicts rules.​This activity is a form of conduct as the foundation for the crime of conspiracy.  It is punishable both in common law and civil law.
> 
> The specific here is that the HoAP intentionally set the condition such that the child, who should not be there at all, is put in harm's way by the parents baiting the Israeli Police and Security Forces.  And this is not an isolated event.
> 
> The HoAP have been conducting bait operations for decades.  It is the less than moral position for the HoAP to utilizing the presence of children _(protected persons)_ to ensure they are injured during the course of unlawful actions of the parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Enven before the birth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is a religion revealed by God for all people, in all places, at all times.  As such, Islam is accessible to everybody and is particularly mindful of the importance of respect, rights, and responsibilities.  The words of the Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, contain the rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind.  They are not subject to the whims and desires of men or women therefore they do not change.  These unique rights mentioned in Islam also include the rights of children.  Children’s rights are not guaranteed by the actions of their parents, their communities, or even their governments.  *God Himself guarantees children’s rights.*
> SOURCE:  *By * Aisha Stacey (© 2010 IslamReligion.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The late Islamic scholar, Sheikh Uthaimeen, may God have mercy on him, described children as a trust given to parents by God." _ibid_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always targets unarmed civilians.
> 
> And you blame the civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I have. What is your point?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> Read the law and then get back with me.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not at all convinced that is is not one of those, use the body of a child to gain "sympathy."
> 
> This is child abuse.  To use children on a demonstration line moving forward, knowing that it will meet with armed resistance, is madness on the part of these Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) intentionally violating:
> 
> ◈  24  Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
> Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> The HoAP do not have child abuse laws _per se_.
> 
> ◈  Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I under International armed conflicts rules.
> ◈  Article 13(1) of Additional Protocol II under non-International armed conflicts rules.​This activity is a form of conduct as the foundation for the crime of conspiracy.  It is punishable both in common law and civil law.
> 
> The specific here is that the HoAP intentionally set the condition such that the child, who should not be there at all, is put in harm's way by the parents baiting the Israeli Police and Security Forces.  And this is not an isolated event.
> 
> The HoAP have been conducting bait operations for decades.  It is the less than moral position for the HoAP to utilizing the presence of children _(protected persons)_ to ensure they are injured during the course of unlawful actions of the parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Enven before the birth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is a religion revealed by God for all people, in all places, at all times.  As such, Islam is accessible to everybody and is particularly mindful of the importance of respect, rights, and responsibilities.  The words of the Quran and the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, contain the rights and responsibilities granted by God to humankind.  They are not subject to the whims and desires of men or women therefore they do not change.  These unique rights mentioned in Islam also include the rights of children.  Children’s rights are not guaranteed by the actions of their parents, their communities, or even their governments.  *God Himself guarantees children’s rights.*
> SOURCE:  *By * Aisha Stacey (© 2010 IslamReligion.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The late Islamic scholar, Sheikh Uthaimeen, may God have mercy on him, described children as a trust given to parents by God." _ibid_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel always targets unarmed civilians.
> 
> And you blame the civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have. What is your point?
Click to expand...


If you're referring to some silly Press TV YouTube video, that's not reallly convincing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.



P F Tinmore said:


> I have. What is your point?


*(COMMENT)*

What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have. What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where does your law say that Israel can target civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rev. Dr. William J. Barber II on Palestine*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Where does your law say that Israel can target civilians?



Same old, same old.  You use lies in order to justify the behaviour of the Gazans at the border. The inherent lies in using language like, "civilians, peaceful protesters, unarmed, and target".  

If you take those lies out and call the border attacks what they actually are:  deliberate, co-ordinated armed attack against the sovereignty and people of a State then you would be able to much better understand and apply the law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have. What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does your law say that Israel can target civilians?
Click to expand...


What civilians were targeted?

Another baseless claim of yours, utterly unsupported.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

So.... the answer to the question “What civilians were targeted [by Israel], would be _none. 
_
Is that about right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> So.... the answer to the question “What civilians were targeted [by Israel], would be _none.
> _
> Is that about right?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Hollie, _et al_,

Specific Reference:  Article 48 • Additional Protocol I • to the Geneva Conventions

The most important reason _(raison d’eˆtre)_ for conditions described in Article 48 • AP1 • is in the need for the protection of civilian persons and objects from the adverse effects of hostilities is an important (NIAC and IAC)
of International Humanitarian Law (IHL).

It attempts to set the standard "reasonable man perspective, on the issue that  – requires both the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians (plus satellite and affiliate associates) to distinguish between civilian "persons and objects on the one hand, and combatants and military objectives on the other, and that the Law requires them (both sides) to focus direct their operations only against military objectives only.



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So.... the answer to the question “What civilians were targeted [by Israel], would be _none.
> _
> Is that about right?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) do not have the mental capacity to grasp and understand that there is a significant difference between Palestinian collateral damage as a result of Israeli attacks against HAMAS, Islamic Jihadist, and other asymmetric elements intentionally embedded in the immediate vicinity of Arab Palestinian civilians ✦→ and the Arab Palestinian attacks aimed and intentionally directed against Israel/Jewish soft targets and various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.  

The HoAP also have a tendency to use both witting and unwitting civilians as shields to prevent or limit the effective strikes launched against legitimate military and state-sponsored terrorism and criminal activity.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have. What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie

International law as opposed to 7th century sharia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

Paul, my friend!  Every once-in-a-while → you offer up a gem of a contribution.  At first,  I thought this would be a real revelation into the care and treatment of insomnia.  However, this presentation yielded a couple nuggets of insight on the → Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967.

But there are a couple things you should be reminded of, before you go in, while not immediately obvious. 

◈  This presentation is largely about "Human Rights."
◈  This presentation is framed _(right from the get-go)_ from a substructure as viewed from the vantage point of the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967 _(not 1948, not 1956, and especially not 1973)_.​
Now, one more thing what was brought to light that, goes all most unnoticed _(about 30 minutes into the video)_ is the recognition of the "lawfulness" of the "Occupation."  The Special Rapporteur swims right on by this, even as he says that he wants to change the framework from → legal → to "illegal per se."  _(This is a very big point; yet a tricky topic to tackle delivered with great courage, skill, and strength.)_  But again, it is like a "magic show" with excellent feats of misdirection.  ≈ 31→ 32 Minutes into the presentation, the Special Rapporteur quotes other legal scholars on potentials of the situation becoming ✦ "at risk" ✦ of becoming illegal "If" this that and the other thing happens.  This misdirection becomes a game of "what if's."  At ≈ 31:50 the truth comes out.  It cannot be determined by a literal reading of the IHL.  _(The unspoken truth up to this point is, that within the reading of IHL, the Occupation is "legal.") _


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have. What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (EXTRACTED) Truncated the video starting with the Special Rapporteur _(Professor S. Michael Lynk)_.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

≈ 32:28  Comes the kicker.  It "could be" (not saying it is) that *IF* the intent is conquest *THEN* the occupation "could" turn illegal.  The Special Rapporteur is citing the very same IHL Citations and Protocols that I have been using all year.  Though sleight of hand, he turns the law for what it says to some hypothetical that does not exist.

He then goes into the "Principles" of the "Modern World Order."  I use the term "contemporary" but we mean something very similar.  Here is the issue, of acceptance of the Modern World Order to set the standard and NOT the law and legislation of the individual national (basic) law.  I know that our nation has fought against the establishment of the Modern World Order since the concept became popular in the last breathes of the 20th Century. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*

**


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **



What point is served by spamming the thread with multiple cut and paste copies of the same YouTube video?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> Paul, my friend!  Every once-in-a-while → you offer up a gem of a contribution.  At first,  I thought this would be a real revelation into the care and treatment of insomnia.  However, this presentation yielded a couple nuggets of insight on the → Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967.
> 
> But there are a couple things you should be reminded of, before you go in, while not immediately obvious.
> 
> ◈  This presentation is largely about "Human Rights."
> ◈  This presentation is framed _(right from the get-go)_ from a substructure as viewed from the vantage point of the Palestinian Territories Occupied since 1967 _(not 1948, not 1956, and especially not 1973)_.​
> Now, one more thing what was brought to light that, goes all most unnoticed _(about 30 minutes into the video)_ is the recognition of the "lawfulness" of the "Occupation."  The Special Rapporteur swims right on by this, even as he says that he wants to change the framework from → legal → to "illegal per se."  _(This is a very big point; yet a tricky topic to tackle delivered with great courage, skill, and strength.)_  But again, it is like a "magic show" with excellent feats of misdirection.  ≈ 31→ 32 Minutes into the presentation, the Special Rapporteur quotes other legal scholars on potentials of the situation becoming ✦ "at risk" ✦ of becoming illegal "If" this that and the other thing happens.  This misdirection becomes a game of "what if's."  At ≈ 31:50 the truth comes out.  It cannot be determined by a literal reading of the IHL.  _(The unspoken truth up to this point is, that within the reading of IHL, the Occupation is "legal.") _
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, that you do not have enough data points to make any kind of determination.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have. What is your point?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What law was violated?  I showed you mine_!_  Where is yours?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (EXTRACTED) Truncated the video starting with the Special Rapporteur _(Professor S. Michael Lynk)_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ≈ 32:28  Comes the kicker.  It "could be" (not saying it is) that *IF* the intent is conquest *THEN* the occupation "could" turn illegal.  The Special Rapporteur is citing the very same IHL Citations and Protocols that I have been using all year.  Though sleight of hand, he turns the law for what it says to some hypothetical that does not exist.
> 
> He then goes into the "Principles" of the "Modern World Order."  I use the term "contemporary" but we mean something very similar.  Here is the issue, of acceptance of the Modern World Order to set the standard and NOT the law and legislation of the individual national (basic) law.  I know that our nation has fought against the establishment of the Modern World Order since the concept became popular in the last breathes of the 20th Century.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

His mandate is only from 1967. That will give you a skewed picture.



RoccoR said:


> 32:28 Comes the kicker. It "could be" (not saying it is) that *IF* the intent is conquest *THEN* the occupation "could" turn illegal.



I don't agree with this guy 100%. (I don't agree with anyone 100%.) Israel has been colonialism and conquest since before 1948. Starting at 1967 is just ducking the issues. You can't find the solution to a problem without identifying the problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What point is served by spamming the thread with multiple cut and paste copies of the same YouTube video?
Click to expand...

They aren't the same.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

Neither side _(Israelis v Palestinians)_ is going to accept responsibility.  To them it serves no useful purpose.



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't agree with this guy 100%. (I don't agree with anyone 100%.) Israel has been colonialism and conquest since before 1948. Starting at 1967 is just ducking the issues. You can't find the solution to a problem without identifying the problem.


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot open up peace negotiation and discuss topics that neither side will compromise.  I'm pretty sure that the Israelis did not (originally) have the intent do acquire as much territory as it did.  The Israelis don't want an additional territory in which the unproductive Arab Palestinian population roam.  That would be much of a tax burden on the Israeli economy.  The best of the econmicindators and the analysis capabiity expect the Unemployment Rate in Israel to be *less than 4%* by the end of CY 2018; whereas → the West Bank (+ Gaza):




 ​No Arab League Nation wants this burden.  And Israel is no different.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> Neither side _(Israelis v Palestinians)_ is going to accept responsibility.  To them it serves no useful purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with this guy 100%. (I don't agree with anyone 100%.) Israel has been colonialism and conquest since before 1948. Starting at 1967 is just ducking the issues. You can't find the solution to a problem without identifying the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot open up peace negotiation and discuss topics that neither side will compromise.  I'm pretty sure that the Israelis did not (originally) have the intent do acquire as much territory as it did.  The Israelis don't want an additional territory in which the unproductive Arab Palestinian population roam.  That would be much of a tax burden on the Israeli economy.  The best of the econmicindators and the analysis capabiity expect the Unemployment Rate in Israel to be *less than 4%* by the end of CY 2018; whereas → the West Bank (+ Gaza):
> 
> View attachment 235110​No Arab League Nation wants this burden.  And Israel is no different.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Israelis don't want an additional territory in which the unproductive Arab Palestinian population roam.


What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?



Shrug.  

The question is whether or not the Arabs are still going to ask that question in another 100 years, or if they are going to work now to change their future.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> The question is whether or not the Arabs are still going to ask that question in another 100 years, or if they are going to work now to change their future.
Click to expand...

They are. They are trying to get Israel to stop stealing, bombing, and bulldozing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> The question is whether or not the Arabs are still going to ask that question in another 100 years, or if they are going to work now to change their future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are. They are trying to get Israel to stop stealing, bombing, and bulldozing.
Click to expand...


Actually, the primary focus of the Arabs-Moslems appears to be concentrated on the border gee-had and the perpetuation of violence and retrogression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamist terrorist one-state solution


*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

Here we go → the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinians _(the avatar exemplar for every two-bit jihadist, insurgent, Radicalized Islamic extremist, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter)_ throughout in the Middle Eastern Region.  Sad, istn't it*! * They are just treated so badly.  No one appreciates them for their great works that they do, the shaded past history of criminal behaviors, and drama queens that they are.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis don't want an additional territory in which the unproductive Arab Palestinian population roam.
> 
> 
> 
> What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just cooperated in the establishment of government institutions in 1947?

❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just lobbied for peace instead of war in 1967?

❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just been a supporting allied neighbor of the Israelis instead of Arab League Fifth Columnist? 

The Hostile Arab Palestinians on behalf of Islam _and the Arab Palestinian People,_ who are  undergoing a personal, spiritual, and internal struggle to achieve their destiny, that find it honorable in “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations, ARE just a bunch of psychopaths pretending to be freedom fighters and patriots.”

◈  P F Tinmore asked:  What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed? 

ANSWER:  With the effort, they could have achieved any number of positive contributions _(Economics,  Literature, Biology,__ Chemistry,__ Mathematics, Cosmology, Physics, Physiology, and Medicine, etc)_ to the world; → with the effort they could have done anything they wanted; they could have reshaped the world for the betterment for all, they could even have turned that dump they call Gaza as a center for advanced studies the → new Mecca for great scientists.  BUT look what they chose to do*!*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

The physical manifestation of the politico-religious ideology of Islamism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> Here we go → the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinians _(the avatar exemplar for every two-bit jihadist, insurgent, Radicalized Islamic extremist, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter)_ throughout in the Middle Eastern Region.  Sad, istn't it*! * They are just treated so badly.  No one appreciates them for their great works that they do, the shaded past history of criminal behaviors, and drama queens that they are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Israelis don't want an additional territory in which the unproductive Arab Palestinian population roam.
> 
> 
> 
> What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just cooperated in the establishment of government institutions in 1947?
> 
> ❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just lobbied for peace instead of war in 1967?
> 
> ❖  How much further along would the Arab Palestinians have been if they had just been a supporting allied neighbor of the Israelis instead of Arab League Fifth Columnist?
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians on behalf of Islam _and the Arab Palestinian People,_ who are  undergoing a personal, spiritual, and internal struggle to achieve their destiny, that find it honorable in “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations, ARE just a bunch of psychopaths pretending to be freedom fighters and patriots.”
> 
> ◈  P F Tinmore asked:  What would the Palestinian production capacity be if their assets were not stolen, bombed, or bulldozed?
> 
> ANSWER:  With the effort, they could have achieved any number of positive contributions _(Economics,  Literature, Biology, Chemistry, Mathematics, Cosmology, Physics, Physiology, and Medicine, etc)_ to the world; → with the effort they could have done anything they wanted; they could have reshaped the world for the betterment for all, they could even have turned that dump they call Gaza as a center for advanced studies the → new Mecca for great scientists.  BUT look what they chose to do*!*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

They do work on line but it is hard for them to get paid. It is difficult to get money into Gaza.

Almost everything needs capital, materials, and equipment. The only way to do that is with international trade.

Not to mention that almost all of their factories have been bombed and they get shot at if they farm or fish.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

As really retrograde as it gets.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Death Cult Heroes






*


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> **



*one state or two?*






 it's a NO-BRAINER.............

people who still "haven't fully developed"



....can't have their own state (which is too late as we all know) + palestinians dabble in terrorism.

so..._86_ that 2-state solution garbage....

 (negotiating w/terrorists for ...their own "state").....how pathetic is that?  all terrorists 

 are evil.  hamas = evil. 



 how about coming up with a new "solution" for your own safety.....

....and, as we all know:





it doesn't seem to be getting anyone anywhere really.  you bomb one area, then they scurry over to the next  'hood' and stay with gramma to take cover.....


----------



## Coyote

Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families

Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.

The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.

According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.




Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?


----------



## Coyote

More settler violence...

4-month-old injured as Israeli settlers attack vehicle in Nablus
NABLUS (Ma'an) -- A four-month-old infant was injured, on late Sunday, afterIsraeli settlers attacked her parents’ vehicle as they passed by near the illegal Israeli settlement of Havat Gilad, west of the northern occupied West Bank city of Nablus.

A Ma'an reporter confirmed that a four-month-old infant was admitted to a hospital in Nablus City, where she was treated for a head injury. 

The injury was reported as mild.

Reports said that Ali Shawahneh, from the Kafr Thulth village, east of the northern West Bank district of Qalqiliya, was heading home along with his family when Israeli settlers attacked their vehicle as they passed near the illegal Havat Gilad settlement.

Israeli settlers threw rocks at the vehicle, forcing Shawahneh to suddenly stop, resulting in his infant daughter’s head hitting the glass and leading to her injury.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?


Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.

But one of these days...


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.
> 
> But one of these days...
Click to expand...


It's rather interesting that the claims, that Israel had no intention to expand Israeli sovereignty to all of Palestine when it took and kept the Occupied/Disputed territories, are false.  There was a political and popular move, to create a greater Israel at play, a movement that Ariel Sharon supported and promoted.  How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel’s Destiny

Once again, the victim card is considerably weakened here. The problem is, they grabbed the tiger by the tail, and now they can't let go of it other than by annexation imo. 

Support for forced involuntary expulsion of Arabs is growing unfortunately, and that would be a great moral wrong that will forever stain them should it happen.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.
> 
> But one of these days...
Click to expand...


Cheap threats. Thanks. I’m sure everyone’s impresssed, 

How about a dissertation on international law?

Maybe a link to a YouTube video authored by an islsmic terrorist organization?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.
> 
> But one of these days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's rather interesting that the claims, that Israel had no intention to expand Israeli sovereignty to all of Palestine when it took and kept the Occupied/Disputed territories, are false.  There was a political and popular move, to create a greater Israel at play, a movement that Ariel Sharon supported and promoted.  How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel’s Destiny
> 
> Once again, the victim card is considerably weakened here. The problem is, they grabbed the tiger by the tail, and now they can't let go of it other than by annexation imo.
> 
> Support for forced involuntary expulsion of Arabs is growing unfortunately, and that would be a great moral wrong that will forever stain them should it happen.
Click to expand...

 
Israel “ took and kept the occupied territories “ in 1967 which was the end of a War the Arabs initiated. 
 Tell us why “ International Law” didn’t apply to Israel before 6/5/67


----------



## member

Coyote said:


> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?





 _*"Jewish settler terrorists..."*_


----------



## member

Coyote said:


> More settler violence...
> 
> 4-month-old injured as Israeli settlers attack vehicle in Nablus
> NABLUS (Ma'an) -- A four-month-old infant was injured, on late Sunday, afterIsraeli settlers attacked her parents’ vehicle as they passed by near the illegal Israeli settlement of Havat Gilad, west of the northern occupied West Bank city of Nablus.
> 
> A Ma'an reporter confirmed that a four-month-old infant was admitted to a hospital in Nablus City, where she was treated for a head injury.
> 
> The injury was reported as mild.
> 
> Reports said that Ali Shawahneh, from the Kafr Thulth village, east of the northern West Bank district of Qalqiliya, was heading home along with his family when Israeli settlers attacked their vehicle as they passed near the illegal Havat Gilad settlement.
> 
> Israeli settlers threw rocks at the vehicle, forcing Shawahneh to suddenly stop, resulting in his infant daughter’s head hitting the glass and leading to her injury.







​




 _*". . .a four-month-old infant was admitted to a hospital in Nablus City, where she was treated for a head injury.The injury was reported as mild."*_

*"Jewish settler terrorists..."*



 the baby would be...dead if they were really terrorists...and their actions, are not VERY nice, of course...
Those few....i wish they would 

 turn the other cheek and not stoop down to that  'level' - _u know what i mean_?  *+* 

 Terrorists don't DO _*"mild."*


_


​


----------



## Coyote

member said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*"Jewish settler terrorists..."*_
Click to expand...


Jewish terrorism

How to prevent Jewish and Arab terror, from a Shin Bet commander who fought both

Jerusalem stakeout reveals 'new generation' of radical Jewish settlers

Unlike Palestinian minors convicted of throwing rocks this terrorist who burned a family alive enjoyed house arrest with his family while awaiting trial.  Defendant in arson attack on Palestinian family to be released to house arrest

Duma terror attack

Protocol from trial of Duma arson suspects distributed in synagogues


You may now return to your regular channel of making excuses.


----------



## Coyote

member said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> More settler violence...
> 
> 4-month-old injured as Israeli settlers attack vehicle in Nablus
> NABLUS (Ma'an) -- A four-month-old infant was injured, on late Sunday, afterIsraeli settlers attacked her parents’ vehicle as they passed by near the illegal Israeli settlement of Havat Gilad, west of the northern occupied West Bank city of Nablus.
> 
> A Ma'an reporter confirmed that a four-month-old infant was admitted to a hospital in Nablus City, where she was treated for a head injury.
> 
> The injury was reported as mild.
> 
> Reports said that Ali Shawahneh, from the Kafr Thulth village, east of the northern West Bank district of Qalqiliya, was heading home along with his family when Israeli settlers attacked their vehicle as they passed near the illegal Havat Gilad settlement.
> 
> Israeli settlers threw rocks at the vehicle, forcing Shawahneh to suddenly stop, resulting in his infant daughter’s head hitting the glass and leading to her injury.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*". . .a four-month-old infant was admitted to a hospital in Nablus City, where she was treated for a head injury.The injury was reported as mild."*_
> 
> *"Jewish settler terrorists..."*
> 
> 
> 
> the baby would be...dead if they were really terrorists...and their actions, are not VERY nice, of course...
> Those few....i wish they would
> 
> turn the other cheek and not stoop down to that  'level' - _u know what i mean_?  *+*
> 
> Terrorists don't DO _*"mild."*
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


She was fortunate it was minor. Keep making excuses it is what you do best.  How do you excuse the young mother who was murdered by Jewish rock throwers...collateral damage or something?


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.
> 
> But one of these days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's rather interesting that the claims, that Israel had no intention to expand Israeli sovereignty to all of Palestine when it took and kept the Occupied/Disputed territories, are false.  There was a political and popular move, to create a greater Israel at play, a movement that Ariel Sharon supported and promoted.  How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel’s Destiny
> 
> Once again, the victim card is considerably weakened here. The problem is, they grabbed the tiger by the tail, and now they can't let go of it other than by annexation imo.
> 
> Support for forced involuntary expulsion of Arabs is growing unfortunately, and that would be a great moral wrong that will forever stain them should it happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel “ took and kept the occupied territories “ in 1967 which was the end of a War the Arabs initiated.
> Tell us why “ International Law” didn’t apply to Israel before 6/5/67
Click to expand...

I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.

Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution?  One that is still in play?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _et al_,

*(COMMENT)*

I don't think there is any doubt that the number of spontaneous criminal mob actions among the Israeli settlers is on the increase, and has been on the increase for quite some time.  And remember, when we talk about this "double standard" like what *our friend "Coyote" *mentioned, we are talking about the discretionary judicial decisions → NOT matters of jurisdiction, legal venue or the specific legal processing of criminal justice matters.

Yes...  →  Yes, there's definitely some evidence of judicial lenience on the Israeli settler and that dispensed to the Arab Palestinian protected persons.

In the course of dispensing justice, there is bound to be cases of leniency in favor of one side over the opponent when the hearings are presided over by Israelis with no representation by the Arab Palestinians.  We've seen this time and time again; all over the world, including America. _ (It wasn't until 1967 that Thurgood Marshall was appointed to the Supreme Court.  And it wasn't until 1937 when William Henry Hastie was appointed as the first black federal district court judge; he also was the first black federal appellate court judge.)  _Nations and their legal systems with protocols develop and evolve at their own rate.  The Israeli Judiciary has only been around 70 years _(it took America over a 160 to appoint a black federal judge)_.  Israel, evolving under completely different lines, and it has: 

Jewish courts
Muslim courts
Druze courts
Christian courts
The Israelis know that there are very influential and observing entities in the more advanced countries in the world that perceive the Israeli Military Courts as somewhat separate from the main body of the Israeli Judiciary and unequal in terms of the judgments made against the Arab Palestinians.  In all appearances, the courts over which the Arab Palestinians cases are exclusively handled, function in accordance with the Geneva Convention concerning Article 68 _(Penal legislation • Penalties • Death penalty)_ and the application to Protect Persons _(Arab Palestinians of the West Bank)_. 

*(EPILOG)*

The Israelis are aware that improvements in the area of equality are needed.  Yet, the Arab Palestinians are their own worst enemy in this debate.  The Israeli Judiciary and the Military Judge Avocatecannot abruptly change in the face of threats and coercion from Hostile Arab Palestinians.  So _(it appears that)_ since the Israeli Military Court runs along the line of Section III: Occupied territories - Fourth Geneva Convention, the _status quo_ will prevail.   Remembering that since the Israelis (including the Settlers of  Area "C") are by definition not protected persons and are not treated under the Military Judicial system and the Fourth Geneva Convention.

One Man's Opinion as I see it,
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote,  _et al_,

If true, then it is (flat-out) criminal behavior (capital crime).



Coyote said:


> She was fortunate it was minor. Keep making excuses it is what you do best.  How do you excuse the young mother who was murdered by Jewish rock throwers...collateral damage or something?


*(COMMENT)*

I get the feeling that Israel is conflicted in the matter of Capital Punishment.  But that option is on the table if convicted _(which they probably will be)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote,  _et al_,
> 
> If true, then it is (flat-out) criminal behavior (capital crime).
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was fortunate it was minor. Keep making excuses it is what you do best.  How do you excuse the young mother who was murdered by Jewish rock throwers...collateral damage or something?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I get the feeling that Israel is conflicted in the matter of Capital Punishment.  But that option is on the table if convicted _(which they probably will be)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I thought Israel did not have capital punishment?  Personally, I oppose it.


----------



## Coyote

member said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*"Jewish settler terrorists..."*_
Click to expand...


Growing Shin Bet conviction that Jews threw rock that killed Palestinian woman

The security establishment suspects that just hours after a Palestinian woman was killed by a rock hurled through her windshield last month, *several far-right Israeli activists drove to a yeshiva in the northern West Bank, on the Sabbath, in order to coach students they suspected were involved in the incident on how to withstand Shin Bet interrogations.*

A defense official confirmed to The Times of Israel a report on the Kan public broadcaster Thursday, saying the increasingly solidifying conclusion among investigators in the Shin Bet security agency and the police’s nationalistic crime unit is that Aisha Rabi was killed in a terror attack perpetrated by Israelis.


The defense official said that the far-right activists who made the drive are figures known to the Shin Bet, and have undergone extensive interrogations at the hands of the agency’s operatives. *The activists spoke to a number of students they believed were involved in the stone-throwing near the northern West Bank’s Tapuah Junction, giving them tips on how to endure the interrogations, reviewing their rights upon detainment, and urging them to remain silent as much as possible.*
—————————


Will anyone advocate for their family homes to be bulldozed?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Israel responds to Islamic terrorist attacks.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Looks like a very nice and peaceful detention and apprehension of a couple juvenile delinquents.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

So, what is the narrative?

What do you expect in a state that supports terrorism? *(RHETORICAL)*  It looks pretty much par for the course when the preferred response to a confrontation is hostile conflict. 

It is their way of life, and it will be that way for at least another after this one.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Looks like a very nice and peaceful detention and apprehension of a couple juvenile delinquents.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, what is the narrative?
> 
> What do you expect in a state that supports terrorism? *(RHETORICAL)*  It looks pretty much par for the course when the preferred response to a confrontation is hostile conflict.
> 
> It is their way of life, and it will be that way for at least another after this one.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda shit, I see.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ministers back expulsion of Palestinian resistance’s families
> 
> Israeli ministers yesterday voted to advance draft legislation that would see the relatives of alleged Palestinian assailants expelled from their homes and forcibly relocated to other parts of the occupied West Bank, reported _the Times of Israel_.
> 
> The decision by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation means that the bill will now move to the Knesset plenum, though there is no date set yet for the first vote.
> 
> According to the law, proposed by Jewish Home MK Moti Yogev, “within a week” of an alleged attack – or even an attempted attack – Israeli occupation forces “will be permitted to expel the relatives of the Palestinian assailants from their hometowns to other parts of the West Bank”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do suppose the families of Jewish settler terrorists will be expelled?
> 
> 
> 
> Israel thinks it can violate international law forever.
> 
> But one of these days...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's rather interesting that the claims, that Israel had no intention to expand Israeli sovereignty to all of Palestine when it took and kept the Occupied/Disputed territories, are false.  There was a political and popular move, to create a greater Israel at play, a movement that Ariel Sharon supported and promoted.  How Ariel Sharon Shaped Israel’s Destiny
> 
> Once again, the victim card is considerably weakened here. The problem is, they grabbed the tiger by the tail, and now they can't let go of it other than by annexation imo.
> 
> Support for forced involuntary expulsion of Arabs is growing unfortunately, and that would be a great moral wrong that will forever stain them should it happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel “ took and kept the occupied territories “ in 1967 which was the end of a War the Arabs initiated.
> Tell us why “ International Law” didn’t apply to Israel before 6/5/67
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.
> 
> Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution?  One that is still in play?
Click to expand...


I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!
   Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,


_“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
You explore every avenue and possibility 
with
speed and total clarity.”_

......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
*..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.

Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.

A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response. 

  Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response. 

  She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response.
> 
> Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response.
> 
> She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea
Click to expand...

I do not bring up international law, and when it comes up I defer to Rocco’s professional knowledge of it, knowledge I do not have.  Neither I suspect do you.

What are you asking about regarding greater Israel? What thread?  Are you claiming Israel has a right to the entire region?  If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?  And what is the difference between Sharon’s (rather bloody) vision and the PLO?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response.
> 
> Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response.
> 
> She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not bring up international law, and when it comes up I defer to Rocco’s professional knowledge of it, knowledge I do not have.  Neither I suspect do you.
> 
> What are you asking about regarding greater Israel? What thread?  Are you claiming Israel has a right to the entire region?  If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?  And what is the difference between Sharon’s (rather bloody) vision and the PLO?
Click to expand...


You are the one who claims Israel’s goal is a “ Greater Israel” Link, please .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response.
> 
> Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response.
> 
> She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not bring up international law, and when it comes up I defer to Rocco’s professional knowledge of it, knowledge I do not have.  Neither I suspect do you.
> 
> What are you asking about regarding greater Israel? What thread?  Are you claiming Israel has a right to the entire region?  If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?  And what is the difference between Sharon’s (rather bloody) vision and the PLO?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?


The plan is to make the Palestinian's lives so miserable that they will "voluntarily" leave.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t get into discussions involving international law, there is way too much erroneous info and like most here I am no expert in it so I do not bring it up to support my arguments.  Do you deny that Israel’s rightwing had a plan for greater Israel..one that precludes any two state solution? One that is still in play?
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response.
> 
> Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response.
> 
> She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not bring up international law, and when it comes up I defer to Rocco’s professional knowledge of it, knowledge I do not have.  Neither I suspect do you.
> 
> What are you asking about regarding greater Israel? What thread?  Are you claiming Israel has a right to the entire region?  If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?  And what is the difference between Sharon’s (rather bloody) vision and the PLO?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plan is to make the Palestinian's lives so miserable that they will "voluntarily" leave.
Click to expand...


That’s so silly. The various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza use the term “gee-had” as a means to kill Israelis. It is Islamist ideology, Islamist intransigence and Islamist retrogression that is making the lives of Arabs-Moslems a miserable failure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  ILOVEISRAEL, Coyote, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> _“Your mind is working at its best when you're being paranoid.
> You explore every avenue and possibility
> with
> speed and total clarity.”_
> 
> ......................................_..._.......................→  _An Unknown London Artist_
> *..............................................................*_Street And Wall Art Illustrator_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will state what the moderators demand; Link please!  Not referring to “ talking points” where it’s CLAIMED this was the plan!  Do you deny that the Arab Countries had no respect for “ International Law” and their goal was NOT the destruction of Israel??
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Coyote is probabblyright, not to engage in "International Law" discussions simply because, at the end of the day, it will not be the basis for the settlement that brings an end to the conflict.
> 
> Yeah, we could argue the merits of a one-state • versus • two-state solution until the cows come home.; but it will come to nothing.  Again, in the end, the Israelis will not agree to anything that will place the fate of the Jewish National Home at risk - in the Arab Palestinian hands.
> 
> A settlement of any kind is a long way off.  The Arab Palestinians really have no one single voice that their people need in order to reach some semblance of consensus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All we hear about is “ International Law” yet when asked why there wasn’t any respect for it before 1967 there is no response.
> 
> Part of that is “ live in peace with your neighbors” When asked about the Palestinians demonstrating willingness there is no response.
> 
> She refers to the plan for a “ Greater Israel” still waiting for the thread. There won’t be.    I could continue but you have the idea
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do not bring up international law, and when it comes up I defer to Rocco’s professional knowledge of it, knowledge I do not have.  Neither I suspect do you.
> 
> What are you asking about regarding greater Israel? What thread?  Are you claiming Israel has a right to the entire region?  If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?  And what is the difference between Sharon’s (rather bloody) vision and the PLO?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If so what are your plans for the indigenous non Jewish inhabitants who disagree with that plan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plan is to make the Palestinian's lives so miserable that they will "voluntarily" leave.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s so silly. The various Islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza use the term “gee-had” as a means to kill Israelis. It is Islamist ideology, Islamist intransigence and Islamist retrogression that is making the lives of Arabs-Moslems a miserable failure.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hollie




----------



## Coyote

How Israeli taxpayers are funding a right-wing NGO dedicated to getting Palestinians evicted

*How Israeli Taxpayers Are Funding a Right-wing NGO Dedicated to Getting Palestinians Evicted *
A Haaretz investigation shows the organization, which fights alleged illegal Arab construction, gets money from several West Bank councils funded by taxpayers

Political nonprofit groups that collect information on controversial construction, issue reports and frequently petition the High Court of Justice in attempts to influence state policy are generally not financed with public funds - at least not when it comes to left-wing groups. Organizations like B’tselem, Peace Now and Yesh Din have never gotten a shekel of taxpayer money.

*But that’s not the case with Regavim, one of the most prominent right-wing groups in Israel today. A Haaretz investigative report shows that the nonprofit, which deals primarily with court petitions against the authorities, got millions of shekels of public funds.* In many cases the funds were funneled to Regavim under criteria that were tailored for it, and although the group declared it had received funds from one regional council, it actually got large budgets from at least two additional regional councils. 

Regavim focuses on legal battles against allegedly illegal Arab construction in the West Bank, Galilee and Negev. For example, it is leading the legal battle to evacuate the Palestinian villages of Sussia in the south Hebron Hills. Before he was elected to the Knesset, one of Regavim’s leading activists was Habayit Hayehudi MK Betzalal Smotrich.

......But documents from other regional councils reveal that Regavim also got money from the Samaria and South Hebron Hills regional councils. Unlike Mateh Binyamin, which made support payments to Regavim without expecting a specific return, these two regional councils signed contracts with Regavim to provide services. During 2014 and 2015 Regavim got 300,000 shekels from the Samaria Regional Council to “*deal with inspection and systematic handling of illegal Palestinian construction in the council’s jurisdiction.” In 2016 the fee went up to 400,000 shekels. The Hebron Hills Regional Council paid Regavim for “protecting and liberating lands”*; the sums were 300,000 shekels in 2014 and 2015, while in 2016 it dropped to 220,000 shekels. The council has also paid Regavim 85,000 shekels since 2014 for aerial photographs.



I wonder what “liberating lands” means?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> I wonder what “liberating lands” means?



Usually it means buying it for the 1000'th time, the same plot of land, or the same house that was owned by Jews before the Arab pogroms at prices You'd not even imagine. The sums in the report are just pocket money for lawyers.

Arabs are both happy to sell for astronomical prices and then make propaganda, pretending they didn't just turn into multi millionaires with relatives in Europe waiting for them with a set conditions as perpetual refugees.


----------



## Coyote

Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.

The judge noted:

_Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.

Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”

_​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a 
Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?  

Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood



The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.

Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.


And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine, Israel, and the Assault on Academic Freedom: Legal Panel discussion*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation speak out*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why are Palestinians Leaving?*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure, would it be right for the soldiers of the Caliphate get their property in Spain?
How about King's palace in Madrid?

Show us by example.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine, Israel, and the Assault on Academic Freedom: Legal Panel discussion*
> 
> **


Actually the fact that the leading BDS holes have both used charity to fund Hamas and activists openly declared to be members was documented in a congressional hearing which led to a known conviction in the US.

The part which their useful idiots never mention is that
BDS itself is a boycott of academic freedom.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why are Palestinians Leaving?*
> 
> **



I wonder which country gives it's Christian Arab citizens most of religious freedom and quality of life in the middle east?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bethlehem - The Living Stones*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine, Israel, and the Assault on Academic Freedom: Legal Panel discussion*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the fact that the leading BDS holes have both used charity to fund Hamas and activists openly declared to be members was documented in a congressional hearing which led to a known conviction in the US.
> 
> The part which their useful idiots never mention is that
> BDS itself is a boycott of academic freedom.
Click to expand...

Load of hooey.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation speak out*
> 
> **



Really nothing to do with Sharia and Jihad against non-believers?
Looks like the  N. Korean zombie propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian official: Nikki Haley is not world's 'schoolmarm' *


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine, Israel, and the Assault on Academic Freedom: Legal Panel discussion*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the fact that the leading BDS holes have both used charity to fund Hamas and activists openly declared to be members was documented in a congressional hearing which led to a known conviction in the US.
> 
> The part which their useful idiots never mention is that
> BDS itself is a boycott of academic freedom.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of hooey.
Click to expand...


Was enough to convict a couple of Your favorite Jihadis in the US.
My condolences.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*City Club of Cleveland.*


----------



## Hollie

*City Club of Islamic Terrorists







*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→   P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> The plan is to make the Palestinian's lives so miserable that they will "voluntarily" leave.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh come now.  This is pure "propaganda."  It is an exaggeration of the highest order.  

Every intelligent Israeli knows that while there are anecdotal examples of Arab Palestinians breaking the bonds that hold them in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, or one of the other Palestinian population centers scattered around the region, no one really believes that any of the Arab League neighbors is going to allow the accumulated hundreds of thousands, the UNRWA has collected over the last half-century, to just get up and move _*"(they will "voluntarily" leave)"*_ to one of their neighboring Arab nations.   Not only would that be compounding the problem, spreading new encampments of trouble that no one really wants.

Most Respectfully.
R


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
Click to expand...


Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plan is to make the Palestinian's lives so miserable that they will "voluntarily" leave.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh come now.  This is pure "propaganda."  It is an exaggeration of the highest order.
> 
> Every intelligent Israeli knows that while there are anecdotal examples of Arab Palestinians breaking the bonds that hold them in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, or one of the other Palestinian population centers scattered around the region, no one really believes that any of the Arab League neighbors is going to allow the accumulated hundreds of thousands, the UNRWA has collected over the last half-century, to just get up and move _*"(they will "voluntarily" leave)"*_ to one of their neighboring Arab nations.   Not only would that be compounding the problem, spreading new encampments of trouble that no one really wants.
> 
> Most Respectfully.
> R
Click to expand...

WTF? What does that have to do with my post


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.
Click to expand...

Sure.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.
Click to expand...

How would competing claims be decided?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
Click to expand...


Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?

Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?

If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
Click to expand...

Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would competing claims be decided?
Click to expand...

Good question. Israel has fucked over millions of people. Not just Palestinian but Jews too. They have all been just pawns in this scheme. Not to mention destroying the Holy Land.

Obviously I am not happy. How can we fix this? There are people who have been working on the logistics for years.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would competing claims be decided?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Israel has fucked over millions of people. Not just Palestinian but Jews too. They have all been just pawns in this scheme. Not to mention destroying the Holy Land.
> 
> Obviously I am not happy. How can we fix this? There are people who have been working on the logistics for years.
Click to expand...


Aside from your usual retreat to conspiracy theories, I didn't see much factual information in your saliva slinging tirade.

Any specifics on the fucking you alleged? 

Who are the pawns (pawn'ers and pawn'ees) in your elaborate conspiracy theory?

I hope you will accept the above in the helpful spirit as was intended.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then so should all the Jews who were evicted during the period leading up to 1948 and subsequently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would competing claims be decided?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Israel has fucked over millions of people. Not just Palestinian but Jews too. They have all been just pawns in this scheme. Not to mention destroying the Holy Land.
> 
> Obviously I am not happy. How can we fix this? There are people who have been working on the logistics for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aside from your usual retreat to conspiracy theories, I didn't see much factual information in your saliva slinging tirade.
> 
> Any specifics on the fucking you alleged?
> 
> Who are the pawns (pawn'ers and pawn'ees) in your elaborate conspiracy theory?
> 
> I hope you will accept the above in the helpful spirit as was intended.
Click to expand...


There won’t be any response. There never is.  Jews destroyed the Holy Land?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Mindful

As far as Abbas and other Palestinians are concerned, Israel's security measures in response to terrorist attacks are also a "crime." In other words, they are saying that Israel does not have the right to conduct hot pursuit after terrorists hiding in Palestinian cities or refugee camps.


When it comes to the actions of the Palestinian leaders themselves, however, they see utter innocence. For them, the daily incitement against Israel and Jews is not a "crime." For them, the glorification of terrorists and paying salaries to their families is not a "crime." For them, the shooting of a pregnant woman at a bus stop is not a "crime."


Such messages are driving Palestinians into the open arms of Hamas. If you are telling your people that Israel and the Jews are criminals, and that anyone who does business with them or visits them is guilty of a "crime," you are telling them that Hamas has got it right: Palestinians should be seeking the destruction of Israel, not peace with it.

Palestinians: The Real "Crimes"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

I had a vivid experience of what Israel's occupation feels like

"O little town of Bethlehem/How still we see thee lie/Above thy deep and dreamless sleep/The silent stars go by," runs the famous Christmas carol sung all over the English-speaking world as it celebrates Christmas. On Christmas Eve midnight mass will sound out from Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, the legendary birthplace of Jesus Christ, proclaiming he will bring "peace to men on earth".

The real Bethlehem
Nothing could be further from the truth than the image of a sweet, untroubled Bethlehem as depicted in a carol originally created by the pious imagination of a Victorian Western-Christian. Generations of Christian children have been brought up on it, and its mythical power is such that few of them realize what or even where Bethlehem is.

A well-educated English friend I had known for years was recently surprised to learn that Bethlehem was located in Palestine. In her mind the town was more a legend than an actual place, and connected to Jews, if to anyone.

That idea is still widespread and has been instrumental in keeping Western-Christians disengaged from the real Bethlehem and unsupportive of its struggle for survival. The city I saw on a visit earlier this year was a travesty of the place the Christmas carol depicts and an indictment of Western Christianity's abject failure to sustain one of its holiest shrines. 

In today's Bethlehem "dreamless sleep" is more like a nightmare, and the town can only "lie still" when Israel's occupation ends.

  Read more at 
I had a vivid experience of what Israel's occupation feels like
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

I had a vivid experience of what the Islamist mini-caliphate looks like


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?*
Apr 20, 2002  |  by Diana West

Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?






Palestinian gunmen occupy the Church of the Nativity, as Israeli troops keep watch outside. Who's crossed the line?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> *Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?*
> Apr 20, 2002  |  by Diana West
> 
> Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian gunmen occupy the Church of the Nativity, as Israeli troops keep watch outside. Who's crossed the line?



16 years ago.  Kinda old for perpetual outrage.  But then in this conflict, perpetual outrage is a given.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?*
> Apr 20, 2002  |  by Diana West
> 
> Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian gunmen occupy the Church of the Nativity, as Israeli troops keep watch outside. Who's crossed the line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16 years ago.  Kinda old for perpetual outrage.  But then in this conflict, perpetual outrage is a given.
Click to expand...


In the context of Arabs-Moslems using religious sites for weapons storage to be used in the commission of crimes, there is an identifiable pattern of behavior.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
Click to expand...

Except Jews were also evicted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article...shows how complicated the issue of property rights is in the former Ottoman region, but also the general disregard by groups such as this for the Palestinian families affected.
> 
> The judge noted:
> 
> _Barak-Erez closed her ruling by noting the hardship residents would suffer by being evicted from homes where they had lived for decades and which some had even purchased. She therefore urged the state to compensate anyone evicted.
> 
> Though the evictions, assuming the trust indeed owns the land, are legal, she wrote, “Evicting people who have lived on this land for decades – some of them without even knowing that the land belongs to others – creates a human problem. Especially when it’s done without compensation or any other solution. It seems the state would do better to consider providing a solution, in appropriate cases, for those evicted from their homes. Property rights are important, but it’s also important to defend people’s homes.”
> 
> _​Ateret Cohanim is itself an interesting group intent on creating a
> Jewish majority in East Jerusalem by purchasing property with help from district authorities, evicting the tenants and moving Jewish families in.  Sometimes with questionable legality.  So the question is...why one or the other?  Why not both Jews and Palestinians?
> 
> Court allows eviction of 700 Palestinians from East Jerusalem neighborhood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.


----------



## Hollie

*Welfare dollars to finance the gee-had.





*


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> And the sky doesn't fall. And the millions getting paid.
> And the Arab estate agents specifically appointed by their people for such cases.
> 
> Exactly, why not both Arabs and Jews? Arabs are 20% in Israel, why  building Jewish communities among Arab ones is a bad thing, beyond the pretentious spectacles of being forced into the top 20% of the worlds richest people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horror of moving Jewish families into property they own in Judea.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
Click to expand...

How exactly?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the evicted Palestinians lost their homes in 1948. It would be the right thing for them to get their homes back too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How exactly?
Click to expand...

Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?

All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

John Pilger _(Soft Serious Artists in Infotainment)_ is not always right.  He is not a reliable source for news worthy material that is not biased.  He is a critic of the Austrailian, British and American Foreign Policy on general principle.  And while he owes his freedom to criticize the Alliance of the Five-Eyes (FVEY) → to their work and the sweat of others, he is long on expounding perceived faults or mistakes, he's very short on actually defending his nation or freedom throughout the world.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Not to sell John Pilger short, he is a professional in his genres, as recognized by his peers.  He is the recipient of several major Awards _(__One World Media Award, __International Emmy Awards, Journalist of the Year 1967,'74,'79, and many more)_. 

Palestine is NOT still the issue.  The Arab Palestinian critics of Israel, advocates for violence and disruptors of regional peace, which that "Palestine" was still the issue.  But it is more the case that the activities of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the use of violence and confrontation to achieve media attention is really the "Issue."  



 ​The people and activities of the HoAP and those like John Pilger, are indirect supporters of jihadist, insurgent, Radicalized Islamic Troublemaker, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter that have a very long history of past criminal behaviors.

The HoAP is a multifaceted and loose confederation of paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, that use tactics including ambushes, indiscriminate rocket fire, arson, kidnapping and murder, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics targeted specifically against innocent civilian, usually in places of public gatherings.  The Arab Palestinians maintain such moral values that they openly defend the right for such members of the HoAP like Dalal Al-Mughrabi to attack innocent Jews that have resulted in the intentional machinegunning of 38  Israeli civilians, including the deaths of 13 children.  The Arab Palestinians hold Public Ceremonies Commemorating the event and "glorification of terrorism."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> John Pilger _(Soft Serious Artists in Infotainment)_ is not always right.  He is not a reliable source for news worthy material that is not biased.  He is a critic of the Austrailian, British and American Foreign Policy on general principle.  And while he owes his freedom to criticize the Alliance of the Five-Eyes (FVEY) → to their work and the sweat of others, he is long on expounding perceived faults or mistakes, he's very short on actually defending his nation or freedom throughout the world.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Not to sell John Pilger short, he is a professional in his genres, as recognized by his peers.  He is the recipient of several major Awards _(__One World Media Award, __International Emmy Awards, Journalist of the Year 1967,'74,'79, and many more)_.
> 
> Palestine is NOT still the issue.  The Arab Palestinian critics of Israel, advocates for violence and disruptors of regional peace, which that "Palestine" was still the issue.  But it is more the case that the activities of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the use of violence and confrontation to achieve media attention is really the "Issue."
> 
> View attachment 236987​The people and activities of the HoAP and those like John Pilger, are indirect supporters of jihadist, insurgent, Radicalized Islamic Troublemaker, adherents, guerrillas and asymmetric fighter that have a very long history of past criminal behaviors.
> 
> The HoAP is a multifaceted and loose confederation of paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, that use tactics including ambushes, indiscriminate rocket fire, arson, kidnapping and murder, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics targeted specifically against innocent civilian, usually in places of public gatherings.  The Arab Palestinians maintain such moral values that they openly defend the right for such members of the HoAP like Dalal Al-Mughrabi to attack innocent Jews that have resulted in the intentional machinegunning of 38  Israeli civilians, including the deaths of 13 children.  The Arab Palestinians hold Public Ceremonies Commemorating the event and "glorification of terrorism."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I'd sell him short, in a heartbeat.

Pilger pilfers the truth.

He has a 25-year record of anti-Israel activism.


----------



## Mindful

“Journalism is concerned with events, poetry with feelings. Journalism is concerned with the look of the world, poetry with the feel of the world.”

Archibald MacLeish (American Poet and Critic. 1892-1982)


----------



## Mindful

Then there was this one:

Fisk excuses attackers


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are the settlements *only* Jewish?
> 
> Why do Palestinians get evicted but *only* Jewish residents move in?
> 
> If Jews have a right to to move there then *why not Arabs?*
> 
> 
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
Click to expand...

Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Move the Palestinians out and move the Jews in. That has been the plan for a hundred years.
> 
> 
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
Click to expand...

Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.

The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christmas in Bethlehem, early 1900's


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*40% of Palestinian lawmakers detained by Israel since 2006 elections*

Some 40 per cent of the Palestinian Legislative Council’s members have been detained by Israeli occupation forces at one time or another since the 2006 elections, prisoner advocacy groups said on Tuesday.

The groups noted that there are currently six Palestinian parliamentarians held in so-called administrative detention – without charge or trial – including Khalida Jarrar, “who had served time in prison and was later re-arrested and placed in administrative detention since July 2017”.

40% of Palestinian lawmakers detained by Israel since 2006 elections


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers prevent a Palestinian child from entering her house in occupied Al khalil "Hebron" because she has camera in her hand .


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian family from Bethlehem in 1919


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Response to the Islamist gee-had should be pretty clear.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


>



Why did he post “ Hebron” in quotes? I know...  It’s because Hebron is Home to the Oldest JEWISH COMMUNITY!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*

“They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.

Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.

‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Jordanian flag represents the Jordanian people.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanian flag represents the Jordanian people.
Click to expand...


Shhh...  Don’t tell him. It will stop his propaganda


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Welcome to the Facebook Generation' - Zena Agha*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except Jews were also evicted.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, the eviction of Jews was a response to Zionist actions.
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.
Click to expand...

I am not justifying anything. Just looking at a cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest




Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not justifying anything. Just looking at a cause.
Click to expand...

That isnt a legitimate cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore

In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.



How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Jews? Hebron in 1929? West Bank in 1948 by Jordan? By other Arab governments around the time of Israel's creation?
> 
> All of these were responses to Zionist colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not justifying anything. Just looking at a cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isnt a legitimate cause.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was. It is just that people lived in many places forever and they all get the boot upon the creation of Israel seems like more than a coincidence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
Click to expand...

Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
Click to expand...

Stupid post.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
Click to expand...


From the article:

_Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.

“The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.

“The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
_
*Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​

Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world.  Similarly the Jewish communities in Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab states were quite old.  Who the hell were they colonizing?
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not justifying anything. Just looking at a cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isnt a legitimate cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say it was. It is just that people lived in many places forever and they all get the boot upon the creation of Israel seems like more than a coincidence.
Click to expand...

Might it be because of ethnic racist attitudes towards a Jewish state so the take it out in theirn ethnic minorities?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hebron was one of the first of the Palestinian responses to the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> The Jews, who had lived in Arab countries for centuries, were all expelled upon the creation of Israel. Coincidence?
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you are justifying mass forced expulsions of civilisns who had nothing to do with the conflict in question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not justifying anything. Just looking at a cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isnt a legitimate cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say it was. It is just that people lived in many places forever and they all get the boot upon the creation of Israel seems like more than a coincidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Might it be because of ethnic racist attitudes towards a Jewish state so the take it out in their ethnic minorities?
Click to expand...

Perhaps it was what the Jewish state was doing to the Palestinians.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
Click to expand...


Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”


Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
Click to expand...

Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.

Stupid post.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
Click to expand...


Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.

It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.


She was arrested without a warrant and held without charge or trial. That doesn't look like due process to me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Arabs-Moslems on Their Way to Visiting the Hospital


*


----------



## ding

It doesn't look like they will be giving up their claim for reparations anytime soon.

Why not pay them?


----------



## José

Because Palestine, their homeland, is not for sale.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  José, ding, _et al_,

Well, this is not such a bad question.  The answer is a bit legal and political-military.  

◈  When a country pays-out "War Reparations," it is a political admission of guilt and defeat.
◈  "War Reparations" are generally imposed by the victor upon the defeated.​


José said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like they will be giving up their claim for reparations anytime soon.  Why not pay them?
> 
> 
> 
> Because Palestine, their homeland, is not for sale.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In general, Customary and International Humanitarian Law (C&IHL) has a specific view on the application of reparations:

*❖  Rule 150:*  A State responsible for violations of C&IHL is required to make full reparation for the loss or injury caused.

❖  *Article 36*: Statute of the International Court of Justice
◈   [T]he existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
◈   [T]he nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.​
"War Reparations" are different, and not to be confused with, compensation, restitution, awards and settlements.  It should also be taken into consideration that _reparations_ may be in the form of money, goods or services, but not to the "cultural property."   While there are often arguments concerning the offer and acceptance of territory for annexation, under "Customary Law, such as the example set by the Spanish American War, America secured the Philippines, Guam and Puerto Rico by Treaty, and Cuba became an American protectorate.  Still today, Guam and Puerto Rico _(former Spanish holdings)_ remain unincorporated American territories.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  José, ding, _et al_,
> 
> Well, this is not such a bad question.  The answer is a bit legal and political-military.
> 
> ◈  When a country pays-out "War Reparations," it is a political admission of guilt and defeat.
> ◈  "War Reparations" are generally imposed by the victor upon the defeated.​
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like they will be giving up their claim for reparations anytime soon.  Why not pay them?
> 
> 
> 
> Because Palestine, their homeland, is not for sale.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In general, Customary and International Humanitarian Law (C&IHL) has a specific view on the application of reparations:
> 
> *❖  Rule 150:*  A State responsible for violations of C&IHL is required to make full reparation for the loss or injury caused.
> 
> ❖  *Article 36*: Statute of the International Court of Justice
> ◈   [T]he existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
> ◈   [T]he nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.​
> "War Reparations" are different, and not to be confused with, compensation, restitution, awards and settlements.  It should also be taken into consideration that _reparations_ may be in the form of money, goods or services, but not to the "cultural property."   While there are often arguments concerning the offer and acceptance of territory for annexation, under "Customary Law, such as the example set by the Spanish American War, America secured the Philippines, Guam and Puerto Rico by Treaty, and Cuba became an American protectorate.  Still today, Guam and Puerto Rico _(former Spanish holdings)_ remain unincorporated American territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Was the land obtained through war?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ding said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  José, ding, _et al_,
> 
> Well, this is not such a bad question.  The answer is a bit legal and political-military.
> 
> ◈  When a country pays-out "War Reparations," it is a political admission of guilt and defeat.
> ◈  "War Reparations" are generally imposed by the victor upon the defeated.​
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like they will be giving up their claim for reparations anytime soon.  Why not pay them?
> 
> 
> 
> Because Palestine, their homeland, is not for sale.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In general, Customary and International Humanitarian Law (C&IHL) has a specific view on the application of reparations:
> 
> *❖  Rule 150:*  A State responsible for violations of C&IHL is required to make full reparation for the loss or injury caused.
> 
> ❖  *Article 36*: Statute of the International Court of Justice
> ◈   [T]he existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;
> ◈   [T]he nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.​
> "War Reparations" are different, and not to be confused with, compensation, restitution, awards and settlements.  It should also be taken into consideration that _reparations_ may be in the form of money, goods or services, but not to the "cultural property."   While there are often arguments concerning the offer and acceptance of territory for annexation, under "Customary Law, such as the example set by the Spanish American War, America secured the Philippines, Guam and Puerto Rico by Treaty, and Cuba became an American protectorate.  Still today, Guam and Puerto Rico _(former Spanish holdings)_ remain unincorporated American territories.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was the land obtained through war?
Click to expand...

Well yes and no. Nobody has surrendered yet so nobody has won anything yet.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was arrested without a warrant and held without charge or trial. That doesn't look like due process to me.
Click to expand...

She is alive and able to speak publically...that is more than you can say for Hamas justice.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
Click to expand...

How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
Click to expand...

Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
Click to expand...

 I don't know anything about that one.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest*
> 
> “They violently arrested Suha in front of her kids,” he said, adding that the officials provided no court-approved warrant at the time of arrest, nor any verbal explanation for why she was being detained.
> 
> Badran noted that the family lives in Area C — the more than 60% of the West Bank under full Israeli civilian and security control.  “The PA technically has no jurisdiction here,” he said.
> 
> ‘The PA is a mafia’: Family of Palestinian woman imprisoned by PA speaks out against her arrest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
Click to expand...

Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
Click to expand...

He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The


P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
Click to expand...

Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
Click to expand...

The article pointed out there were no trials by Hamas for some.  Not even a kangaroo court.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you. You can exploit a child for cheap propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
Click to expand...


I have no knowledge about the status of that investigation. I think you will find that it is not uncommon for journalists in war zones to come under fire. Conspiracy theories about “murder” notwithstanding, there are risks that must be assumed for being in areas of live fire.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no knowledge about the status of that investigation. I think you will find that it is not uncommon for journalists in war zones to come under fire. Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there are risks that must be assumed for being in areas of live fire.
Click to expand...

Please post a link then.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no knowledge about the status of that investigation. I think you will find that it is not uncommon for journalists in war zones to come under fire. Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there are risks that must be assumed for being in areas of live fire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please post a link then.
Click to expand...


A link to what?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas executes 3 Palestinians over Israel ties
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
Click to expand...


Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict

Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International. 

...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.

Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim is the boy was "murdered". Another of your baseless claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Ah, I remember. Surely Israel will duck.


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no knowledge about the status of that investigation. I think you will find that it is not uncommon for journalists in war zones to come under fire. Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, there are risks that must be assumed for being in areas of live fire.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please post a link then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A link to what?
Click to expand...

my mistake...I misread what you wrote and though you said you did have knowledge...I missed "not"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Collaborators kill and Palestine is crawling with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.


Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the article:
> 
> _Rights groups have questioned the fairness of trials under the Hamas system.
> 
> “The death penalty is a barbaric practice that has no place in a modern state,” Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East division of Human Rights Watch, said.
> 
> “The abhorrent executions by Hamas authorities of three men in Gaza deemed to be collaborators project weakness, not strength,” she said. “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> _
> *Hamas also killed 23 people without trials during its 2014 war with Israel*​
> 
> Twenty three people were murdered without trials.  At least that woman arrested by PA is alive and has rights to due process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Hamas authorities will never achieve true security or stability through firing squads or by the gallows, but rather through respect for international norms and the rule of law.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
Click to expand...

It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, Israel had to kill him because they feared for their lives.
> 
> Stupid post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, I remember. Surely Israel will duck.
Click to expand...


The expectation is that you will presume Israeli forces targeted the journalist. There is no obvious indication of that. Arabs-Moslems created the equivalent of a war zone. With thousands of people moving around in a dynamic environment, everyone is at risk to catch a bullet, even children brought to the festivities. Are you comfortable with people bringing children to an environment where live rounds are loaded?


----------



## Coyote

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, I remember. Surely Israel will duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The expectation is that you will presume Israeli forces targeted the journalist. There is no obvious indication of that. Arabs-Moslems created the equivalent of a war zone. With thousands of people moving around in a dynamic environment, everyone is at risk to catch a bullet, even children brought to the festivities. Are you comfortable with people bringing children to an environment where live rounds are loaded?
Click to expand...

Actually...untill an investigation says otherwise...it looks as if he was targeted.


----------



## Hollie

Coyote said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, I remember. Surely Israel will duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The expectation is that you will presume Israeli forces targeted the journalist. There is no obvious indication of that. Arabs-Moslems created the equivalent of a war zone. With thousands of people moving around in a dynamic environment, everyone is at risk to catch a bullet, even children brought to the festivities. Are you comfortable with people bringing children to an environment where live rounds are loaded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually...untill an investigation says otherwise...it looks as if he was targeted.
Click to expand...


That’s possible. I certainly can’t offer facts positively or negatively. My opinion is that through clouds of black smoke and in that environment of fires burning and all the confusion, anyone who drew attention to themselves by being visible against the background would be at greater risk of being a target.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it an international norm for spies to point people out for Israel so that Israel can kill them?
> 
> 
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was a promising talented Palestinian photo journalist shot by a sniper in the recent violence at the border.  The
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Murder is a specific charge with burdens of proof, at least in kuffar law.
> 
> It's just a shame that you ignore the motivations that drive the Islamist gee-had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking of murder...have the IDF finished investigating the murder of the journalist Murtaja?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anything about that one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yaser Murtaja - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, I remember. Surely Israel will duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The expectation is that you will presume Israeli forces targeted the journalist. There is no obvious indication of that. Arabs-Moslems created the equivalent of a war zone. With thousands of people moving around in a dynamic environment, everyone is at risk to catch a bullet, even children brought to the festivities. Are you comfortable with people bringing children to an environment where live rounds are loaded?
Click to expand...




Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems created the equivalent of a war zone.


I haven't seen any guns there.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can you be sure they were spies without a trial?
> 
> 
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.
Click to expand...

Good grief...the lengths you will go to to excuse bloody murder is unreal!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spies are a big problem in Palestine. Just killing people at random does nothing to solve that problem. There must be some evidence. And what about trials? Hamas, the PA, and Israel all have kangaroo courts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief...the lengths you will go to to excuse bloody murder is unreal!
Click to expand...

I am not excusing anything. It is Israel's war, not mine.


----------



## Coyote

I


P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
> 
> Hamas forces carried out a brutal campaign of abductions, torture and unlawful killings against Palestinians accused of “collaborating” with Israel and others during Israel’s military offensive against Gaza in July and August 2014, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
> 
> ...Many of these unlawful killings were publicly billed as attacks against people assisting Israel during the July and August 2014 conflict as part of an operation, codenamed “Strangling Necks”, to target “collaborators”. However, in reality, at least 16 of those executed had been in Hamas custody since before the conflict broke out. Many had been awaiting the outcome of their trials when they were taken away from prison and summarily executed.
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief...the lengths you will go to to excuse bloody murder is unreal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not excusing anything. It is Israel's war, not mine.
Click to expand...

It is HAMAS murdering people without due process or for political reasons!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> I
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are getting into Fatah's coup against the PA. That is a book in itself. I had a thread about that years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief...the lengths you will go to to excuse bloody murder is unreal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not excusing anything. It is Israel's war, not mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is HAMAS murdering people without due process or for political reasons!
Click to expand...

That whole place is politics over legalities.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesnt justify extrajudicial murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, but it would not be an issue if Gaza was not crawling with Israeli spies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief...the lengths you will go to to excuse bloody murder is unreal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not excusing anything. It is Israel's war, not mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is HAMAS murdering people without due process or for political reasons!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That whole place is politics over legalities.
Click to expand...

These particular examples shows a complete lack of legalities.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Al Sabawi - TABO: Every Palestinian Needs a Title | TEDx Talk – Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,

Well, I think that the terminology you are using is an improper form of the true meaning of the Customary Law.  There are 7 concepts that are associated with the State Acquisition of territory and the extension of sovereignty.

◈  Discovery (now archaic - all global territory has been discovered)
◈  Occupation
◈  Prescription
◈  Cession
◈  Annexation
◈  Assimilation
◈  Conquest​
While "war" [_(by Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) ⟴ conflict • International (IAC) or non-International (NIAC)_] may have had a causal connection to the outcome, it is not the true action that extends the sovereignty.  It is the improper expression of the intent behind:

Article 2(4), Chapter I • Purposes and Principles, UN Charter:
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

The Principles
✦  One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
○ To usurp the political independence of any state.​✦  One state cannot *Use* Force:
○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.​
This notion that the phrase "through war" _(technically words of description)_ is somehow the proper consideration for this topic is → poor literary license for a much deeper meaning in the Customary Law.  The Territory of one state → which becomes under the influence effectively controlled by another state as an outcome of a defense against aggression is not addressed.  Nor is the acquistion of territory by treaty _(for any reason)_ is not addressed.



ding said:


> Was the land obtained through war?


*(COMMENT)*

In contemporary times _(since the beginning of the 20th Century)_ continued and unbroken "occupation of territory" by another state is known as "acquisition by prescription."   This is going to be the emerging controversy in the Regional Conflict over Palestine _(formerly the territory once under Mandate)_.

It must be remembered that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip never actually maintained secured Sovereignty.  The limited sovereignty the Arab Palestinians have been an outcome of either_ (in the case of the Gaza Strip)_ abandonment, or Area "A" _(in the case of the West Bank) _International Agreement.


P F Tinmore said:


> Well yes and no. Nobody has surrendered yet so nobody has won anything yet.


*(COMMENT)*


Another one of the emerging considerations, of the late 20th Century or early 21st Century, is that the
Common Article 2, Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV)(1949) states that:

◈  The present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, *even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them*.

◈  The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance".​
The notion that one side or the other has to "surrender" in order for something to be "won" or "lost" is similarly just as archaic as the notion of "war."  It seems to be convenience for the Arab Palestinian to rest their arguments on these archaic notions, as it places their argument under the umbrella of legitimacy.  But the appearance of legitimacy is a false mask  We all know that Newtonian Mathematics is actually incorrect; we've known this since the time of Albert Einstein and Relativity.  But we still teach and use Newtonian because it is, for all intent an purpose, a very close approximation to the reality of Einstein's Relativity.  These political-military notions of "war," "surrender," _(Wins-Losses)_ and the indefinite perpetuation of Arab Palestinian conflict _(Jihadism, Insurgency, Radicalized Islamic Fundamentalism, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Warfare)_ are an attempt to suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the establishment of a Jewish National Home.  This is the negative effect → over a century → of the Arab Palestinian theory → in the adoption of conflict over peace.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Discovery (now archaic - all global territory has been discovered)
> ◈ Occupation
> ◈ Prescription
> ◈ Cession
> ◈ Annexation
> ◈ Assimilation
> ◈ Conquest


You keep giving this list. Which one was it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.


2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;

    3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> Well, I think that the terminology you are using is an improper form of the true meaning of the Customary Law.  There are 7 concepts that are associated with the State Acquisition of territory and the extension of sovereignty.
> 
> ◈  Discovery (now archaic - all global territory has been discovered)
> ◈  Occupation
> ◈  Prescription
> ◈  Cession
> ◈  Annexation
> ◈  Assimilation
> ◈  Conquest​
> While "war" [_(by Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) ⟴ conflict • International (IAC) or non-International (NIAC)_] may have had a causal connection to the outcome, it is not the true action that extends the sovereignty.  It is the improper expression of the intent behind:
> 
> Article 2(4), Chapter I • Purposes and Principles, UN Charter:
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> The Principles
> ✦  One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.​✦  One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.​
> This notion that the phrase "through war" _(technically words of description)_ is somehow the proper consideration for this topic is → poor literary license for a much deeper meaning in the Customary Law.  The Territory of one state → which becomes under the influence effectively controlled by another state as an outcome of a defense against aggression is not addressed.  Nor is the acquistion of territory by treaty _(for any reason)_ is not addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was the land obtained through war?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In contemporary times _(since the beginning of the 20th Century)_ continued and unbroken "occupation of territory" by another state is known as "acquisition by prescription."   This is going to be the emerging controversy in the Regional Conflict over Palestine _(formerly the territory once under Mandate)_.
> 
> It must be remembered that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip never actually maintained secured Sovereignty.  The limited sovereignty the Arab Palestinians have been an outcome of either_ (in the case of the Gaza Strip)_ abandonment, or Area "A" _(in the case of the West Bank) _International Agreement.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes and no. Nobody has surrendered yet so nobody has won anything yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> Another one of the emerging considerations, of the late 20th Century or early 21st Century, is that the
> Common Article 2, Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV)(1949) states that:
> 
> ◈  The present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, *even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them*.
> 
> ◈  The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance".​
> The notion that one side or the other has to "surrender" in order for something to be "won" or "lost" is similarly just as archaic as the notion of "war."  It seems to be convenience for the Arab Palestinian to rest their arguments on these archaic notions, as it places their argument under the umbrella of legitimacy.  But the appearance of legitimacy is a false mask  We all know that Newtonian Mathematics is actually incorrect; we've known this since the time of Albert Einstein and Relativity.  But we still teach and use Newtonian because it is, for all intent an purpose, a very close approximation to the reality of Einstein's Relativity.  These political-military notions of "war," "surrender," _(Wins-Losses)_ and the indefinite perpetuation of Arab Palestinian conflict _(Jihadism, Insurgency, Radicalized Islamic Fundamentalism, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Warfare)_ are an attempt to suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the establishment of a Jewish National Home.  This is the negative effect → over a century → of the Arab Palestinian theory → in the adoption of conflict over peace.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The land wasn’t acquired through war so you can stop that nonsense. 

And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either. 

Is stolen on the list?

Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?


----------



## ding

So is it possible that Israel’s claim that Israel is making a claim based on a land grant from God because Hollie believes that is a fairy tale.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
Click to expand...


I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.

It's a softball. Take a swing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
Click to expand...

False question. There is no border there.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False question. There is no border there.
Click to expand...


That was your expected retreat / sidestep. 

However, the facts are that Israel is defending its sovereign territory and the fact is that islamic terrorist sponsored and promoted riots and attacks are taking place by islamics stating they will breach the border and "tear the hearts out" of Jews. 

If any of the above is incorrect, I'm sure will dump a YouTube video in the thread as opposed to actually presenting a coherent argument.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,

The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.  

In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century. 



ding said:


> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.


*(COMMENT)*

Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty. 



ding said:


> Is stolen on the list?


*(COMMENT)*

No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.

"Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.  



ding said:


> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?


*(COMMENT)*

Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
"Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.



P F Tinmore said:


> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.


*(COMMENT)*

✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel. http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r043.htm

The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.  

The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.

Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False question. There is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was your expected retreat / sidestep.
> 
> However, the facts are that Israel is defending its sovereign territory and the fact is that islamic terrorist sponsored and promoted riots and attacks are taking place by islamics stating they will breach the border and "tear the hearts out" of Jews.
> 
> If any of the above is incorrect, I'm sure will dump a YouTube video in the thread as opposed to actually presenting a coherent argument.
Click to expand...

What sovereign territory? Got a map?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> False question. There is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was your expected retreat / sidestep.
> 
> However, the facts are that Israel is defending its sovereign territory and the fact is that islamic terrorist sponsored and promoted riots and attacks are taking place by islamics stating they will breach the border and "tear the hearts out" of Jews.
> 
> If any of the above is incorrect, I'm sure will dump a YouTube video in the thread as opposed to actually presenting a coherent argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What sovereign territory? Got a map?
Click to expand...


So, we can agree that your claim "Israel is the aggressors", is clearly false.

Your Islamist terrorist heroes have discovered where Israel maintains its soverign territory. Ask them to show you where that location is.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Hollie, _P F Tinmore, et al_,

This just dodges the question.  It tries to mask Arab Palestinian aggression with some sort of requirement that Israel gets their approval for the border. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> 
> 
> False question. There is no border there.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

No matter what rationale the Arab Palestinian uses, they are attempting to deny reality.  The border is a "fact."  It is not an apparition, it is not a legal abstract, it is not a political theory.

Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933:
*◈  ARTICLE 1a * *defined territory*;​
The defined territory is a physical reality...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Hollie, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> This just dodges the question.  It tries to mask Arab Palestinian aggression with some sort of requirement that Israel gets their approval for the border.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious as to what group you would suggest is attempting to crash the Israeli border to "rip the hearts out" of the Jewish people.
> 
> It's a softball. Take a swing.
> 
> 
> 
> False question. There is no border there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No matter what rationale the Arab Palestinian uses, they are attempting to deny reality.  The border is a "fact."  It is not an apparition, it is not a legal abstract, it is not a political theory.
> 
> Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933:
> *◈  ARTICLE 1a * *defined territory*;​
> The defined territory is a physical reality...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Your link(s) spell it out, Rocco. 

In PF Tinmore's mindset of complete denial, he does himself a disservice by ignoring a reality while actively maintaining an untenable position for the Arabs-Moslems.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
Click to expand...


The idea that Israel (read: the Jewish people) is "aggressor" is incorrect and demonizing.  Israel is no more an aggressor than Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or Jordan are aggressors.  The rights of the peoples of all of these places is not based on aggression.  You brought it up yourself.  The sovereignty on ALL of these peoples stems from the principle of self-determination.  That is a basic principle of international law -- that peoples have the right to self-determination, including sovereignty over territory.

The legal means by which sovereignty was transferred in all of these cases was CESSION (abandonment).  Turkey abandoned the territory it held (treaty).  Jordan and Egypt abandoned the territories they held (treaty).  Israel abandoned Area A (unilateral disengagement and treaty) and Gaza (unilateral disengagement and treaty). 

There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has:  1.  The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle.  2.  The legal right to specific territory by treaty.  3.  The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory. 

This entire line of questioning Israel's legitimacy is ridiculous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.
> 
> In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is stolen on the list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.
> 
> "Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
> "Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel.
> 
> The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 
Nov

24

*  Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty *
*Q What are the modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty?*


Ans *Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*
International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty by a state, they are

*(1) Occupation*: When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
(i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
*(ii) occupation should be peaceful, continuous.*

*(5) Prescription:* It means continued occupation over a long period of time by one state of territory actually and originally belonging to another state. Requirements of prescription *(i) the possession must be peaceful* (b) the possession must be public (iii) the possession must be for a long period of time.

International Law: Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel (read: the Jewish people) is "aggressor" is incorrect and demonizing.  Israel is no more an aggressor than Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or Jordan are aggressors.  The rights of the peoples of all of these places is not based on aggression.  You brought it up yourself.  The sovereignty on ALL of these peoples stems from the principle of self-determination.  That is a basic principle of international law -- that peoples have the right to self-determination, including sovereignty over territory.
> 
> The legal means by which sovereignty was transferred in all of these cases was CESSION (abandonment).  Turkey abandoned the territory it held (treaty).  Jordan and Egypt abandoned the territories they held (treaty).  Israel abandoned Area A (unilateral disengagement and treaty) and Gaza (unilateral disengagement and treaty).
> 
> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has:  1.  The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle.  2.  The legal right to specific territory by treaty.  3.  The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.
> 
> This entire line of questioning Israel's legitimacy is ridiculous.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has: 1. The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle. 2. The legal right to specific territory by treaty. 3. The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.



Links?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel (read: the Jewish people) is "aggressor" is incorrect and demonizing.  Israel is no more an aggressor than Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or Jordan are aggressors.  The rights of the peoples of all of these places is not based on aggression.  You brought it up yourself.  The sovereignty on ALL of these peoples stems from the principle of self-determination.  That is a basic principle of international law -- that peoples have the right to self-determination, including sovereignty over territory.
> 
> The legal means by which sovereignty was transferred in all of these cases was CESSION (abandonment).  Turkey abandoned the territory it held (treaty).  Jordan and Egypt abandoned the territories they held (treaty).  Israel abandoned Area A (unilateral disengagement and treaty) and Gaza (unilateral disengagement and treaty).
> 
> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has:  1.  The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle.  2.  The legal right to specific territory by treaty.  3.  The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.
> 
> This entire line of questioning Israel's legitimacy is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has: 1. The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle. 2. The legal right to specific territory by treaty. 3. The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


I'm not going to enable your denial of plain reality.

If you want to argue against the principle of self-determination, go ahead.  If you want to try to prove that treaties don't exist, go ahead.  If you want to claim Israel has no actual control of territory, go ahead.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.
> 
> In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is stolen on the list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.
> 
> "Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
> "Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel.
> 
> The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nov
> 
> 24
> 
> *  Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty *
> *Q What are the modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty?*
> 
> 
> Ans *Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*
> International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty by a state, they are
> 
> *(1) Occupation*: When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> *(ii) occupation should be peaceful, continuous.*
> 
> *(5) Prescription:* It means continued occupation over a long period of time by one state of territory actually and originally belonging to another state. Requirements of prescription *(i) the possession must be peaceful* (b) the possession must be public (iii) the possession must be for a long period of time.
> 
> International Law: Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty
Click to expand...



That’s nice that you link to someone’s personal blog but the facts remain that Israel is defending territory that it maintains sovereignty over. 

Your hope for Arabs- Moslems to attempt to steal land is not going to happen.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Principles
> ✦ One state cannot use the *Threat of* Force:
> ○ To coerce and gain control over the territorial integrity of another state.
> ○ To usurp the political independence of any state.
> ✦ One state cannot *Use* Force:
> ○ The to gain control over the territorial integrity of another state through an act of aggression.
> ○ The to usurp the political independence of any state through an act of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 2.   Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including armed struggle;
> 
> 3.   Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the *Palestinian people* and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> A/RES/37/43.  Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel (read: the Jewish people) is "aggressor" is incorrect and demonizing.  Israel is no more an aggressor than Syria, Iraq, Lebanon or Jordan are aggressors.  The rights of the peoples of all of these places is not based on aggression.  You brought it up yourself.  The sovereignty on ALL of these peoples stems from the principle of self-determination.  That is a basic principle of international law -- that peoples have the right to self-determination, including sovereignty over territory.
> 
> The legal means by which sovereignty was transferred in all of these cases was CESSION (abandonment).  Turkey abandoned the territory it held (treaty).  Jordan and Egypt abandoned the territories they held (treaty).  Israel abandoned Area A (unilateral disengagement and treaty) and Gaza (unilateral disengagement and treaty).
> 
> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has:  1.  The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle.  2.  The legal right to specific territory by treaty.  3.  The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.
> 
> This entire line of questioning Israel's legitimacy is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is NO QUESTION in law that Israel has: 1. The right to self-determination and sovereignty for the Jewish people in principle. 2. The legal right to specific territory by treaty. 3. The actual fact of sovereignty by fulfilling the requirements for sovereignty and actually controlling territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not going to enable your denial of plain reality.
> 
> If you want to argue against the principle of self-determination, go ahead.  If you want to try to prove that treaties don't exist, go ahead.  If you want to claim Israel has no actual control of territory, go ahead.
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## ding

Israel is the occupier. They have no valid claim to the land.

The occupiers don’t have to be aggressors because they can be defenders.

Being a defender doe not mean the occupation is legal or just.

Being friends with the police who look the other way as did happen in America with blacks did not make it legal. God has a different standard.


----------



## ding

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.
> 
> In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is stolen on the list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.
> 
> "Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
> "Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel.
> 
> The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nov
> 
> 24
> 
> *  Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty *
> *Q What are the modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty?*
> 
> 
> Ans *Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*
> International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty by a state, they are
> 
> *(1) Occupation*: When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> *(ii) occupation should be peaceful, continuous.*
> 
> *(5) Prescription:* It means continued occupation over a long period of time by one state of territory actually and originally belonging to another state. Requirements of prescription *(i) the possession must be peaceful* (b) the possession must be public (iii) the possession must be for a long period of time.
> 
> International Law: Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That’s nice that you link to someone’s personal blog but the facts remain that Israel is defending territory that it maintains sovereignty over.
> 
> Your hope for Arabs- Moslems to attempt to steal land is not going to happen.
Click to expand...

No. They have no valid claim. You said it yourself that gods are fairytales. 

What is their valid claim?


----------



## ding

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.
> 
> In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is stolen on the list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.
> 
> "Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
> "Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel.
> 
> The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nov
> 
> 24
> 
> *  Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty *
> *Q What are the modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty?*
> 
> 
> Ans *Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*
> International law generally recognizes five modes of acquiring territorial sovereignty by a state, they are
> 
> *(1) Occupation*: When a particular territory is not under the authority of any other state, a state can establish its sovereignty over such territory by occupation. The territory may never have belonged to any state, or it may have been abandoned by the previous sovereign. The PCIJ( permanent court of international justice) held that the occupation to be effective must consist of the following two elements
> (i) intention to occupy. Such intention must be formally expressed and it must be permanent.
> *(ii) occupation should be peaceful, continuous.*
> 
> *(5) Prescription:* It means continued occupation over a long period of time by one state of territory actually and originally belonging to another state. Requirements of prescription *(i) the possession must be peaceful* (b) the possession must be public (iii) the possession must be for a long period of time.
> 
> International Law: Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That’s nice that you link to someone’s personal blog but the facts remain that Israel is defending territory that it maintains sovereignty over.
> 
> Your hope for Arabs- Moslems to attempt to steal land is not going to happen.
Click to expand...

A criminal who occupies my house doesn’t have sovereignty.

He just has friends in the police department.


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding, _P F Tinmore, et al_,
> 
> The acquisition of "territory" through the application of "occupation and *prescription*" is the terminology that describes a sovereignty transfer and title through the  "occupation" over a significant (prolonged) period of time.
> 
> In this case, in which nearly everyone calls it the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), even in the international courts.  The oPt has been occupied by the Israelis for half a century.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> And annexation doesn’t fit either because annexation implies an existing sovereign entity. So it can’t be that either.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Annexation only implies the assimilation of the territory from one status _(even if it is undetermined)_ to another.  Such a change is usually in the direction of incorporation into new sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is stolen on the list?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, but "Agreement" is.   Sovereignty is not stolen.  One country either abandons the sovereignty, or fights for it and forfeits the territory.
> 
> "Stolen" is a civil tort issue over property, or an enforceable criminal law.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or purchased?  Oops can’t be purchased either, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes,  "Purchase" is an alternative means.  Like the Purchase of Alaska from Russia; or the Louisiana Purchase.
> "Cession" (surrender of territory by one country to another.) is another alternative means.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that the Palestinians are the aggressors but it appears that it is Israel that is the aggressor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/37/43 (3 December 1982) is *NOT* law.  It cannot encourage or imply that it is lawful to attack civilians _(Israeli/Jews/otherwise)_ in any capacity and for any reason.   Further, A/RES/37/43 came six years before the 1988 PLO Declaration of Independence (A/43/827  S/20278).   In 1982, the West Bank was *Sovereign Jordanian Territory* under occupation by Israel.  The Kingdom of Jordan abandoned the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1988 while it was under the effective control of Israel.
> 
> The issue of Aggression in 1948 and 1967 is now and has been resolved since before the turn of the century.  The parties to the conflicts, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip have been rendered by Treaty and "International Boundaries" established.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either conflict.
> 
> Relative to the Arab Palestinians, as it applied to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, the Israelis were NOT the aggressor because they were not engaged with the Arab Palestinian.  Israel was engaged in a conflict with Egypt and Jordan...  Israel currently has a Treaty (of Peace) with both Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So basically what you are saying is that if you steal something and can hold onto long enough because the officials look the other way you can legally own it?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding,_ et al_,

Let's try this just: One - More - Time*!*
Just a refresher here.   See if you can follow this...



 ​


ding said:


> So basically what you are saying is that if you steal something and can hold onto long enough because the officials look the other way you can legally own it?


*(KEY FACTORS)*

In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem...

•  *Treaty of Alliance between HM in respect of the UK and HH the Amir of Trans-Jordan, 22 March 1946* •



 ​
•   *Unification of the Two Banks*

◈  On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament* unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
SOURCE:  History Website: kinghussein.gov → Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
•  *Disengagement from the West Bank*  •

◈   On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the *severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank*. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
•  *Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933 * •

*◈    ARTICLE 3*
*The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.* Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.​
*(COMMENT)*

Prior to the Annexation of the West Bank by Jordanian parliament in which of the MPs were Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank _(this would be by the Right of independence and Sovereignty)_. the Government of Palestine (the UK) maintained effective control by Mandate.  In 1950 the King of Jordan incorporated the West Bank into the greater Sovereignty of Jordan.  In 1967, the State of Israel, in pursuit of retreating Jordanian military forces, assume effective control of the West Bank.  This made the West Bank Jordanian territory under Israeli occupation.  On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

Let me say this again.

On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​This nonsense you spout: "because the officials look the other way" is absolutely incorrect and unsubstantiated in any fashion.  The King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan did not look the other way, he even made a *radio address to the citizens* of his nation and the world at large.

If the Arab Palestinians had any control at all in the West Bank or Jerusalem, it is only because the Israelis allow it.  Currently, because of the very poor diplomacy on the part of the Arab Palestinians, the only territory the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control is in Area "A" through the Palestinian Authority; and the Gaza Strip because of the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis.

Any questions?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly

Has anyone seen the new process for tunnels from Lebanon? This is going on in Palestine today. 

Israel continues to destroy the attack tunnels from Lebanon. This time the IDF flooded the tunnel with cement, shocking and embarrassing the Hezbollah.

*Israel Floods Terror Tunnels with Cement. Stuns Hezbollah*

*Last week the IDF destroyed the fifth attack tunnel dug from Lebanon. While the United Nations continues to refrain from taking any action or resolutions against Hezbollah or Lebanon, Israel continues to destroy these underground tunnels that posed a strategic threat, planned to be used as in a future war against Israel.*


*Denial*
Hezbollah denied Israeli claims that they had dug a terror tunnel below the block factory in the Lebanese village of Kfar Kila. Hezbollah activists were shocked to see the factory flooded with cement, that the IDF flooded from the Israeli side of the terror tunnel. The cement was used to neutralize the tunnel. Not only did it neutralize the tunnel, it also overflowed into the entrance of the tunnel in the block factory, flooding the factory with the cement!


----------



## Coyote

Km


RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> Let's try this just: One - More - Time*!*
> Just a refresher here.   See if you can follow this...
> 
> View attachment 237448​
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically what you are saying is that if you steal something and can hold onto long enough because the officials look the other way you can legally own it?
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY FACTORS)*
> 
> In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem...
> 
> •  *Treaty of Alliance between HM in respect of the UK and HH the Amir of Trans-Jordan, 22 March 1946* •
> 
> View attachment 237451​
> •   *Unification of the Two Banks*
> 
> ◈  On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament* unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> SOURCE:  History Website: kinghussein.gov → Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
> •  *Disengagement from the West Bank*  •
> 
> ◈   On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the *severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank*. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> •  *Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933 * •
> *◈    ARTICLE 3*
> *The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.* Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Prior to the Annexation of the West Bank by Jordanian parliament in which of the MPs were Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank _(this would be by the Right of independence and Sovereignty)_. the Government of Palestine (the UK) maintained effective control by Mandate.  In 1950 the King of Jordan incorporated the West Bank into the greater Sovereignty of Jordan.  In 1967, the State of Israel, in pursuit of retreating Jordanian military forces, assume effective control of the West Bank.  This made the West Bank Jordanian territory under Israeli occupation.  On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
> 
> Let me say this again.
> 
> On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​This nonsense you spout: "because the officials look the other way" is absolutely incorrect and unsubstantiated in any fashion.  The King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan did not look the other way, he even made a *radio address to the citizens* of his nation and the world at large.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians had any control at all in the West Bank or Jerusalem, it is only because the Israelis allow it.  Currently, *because of the very poor diplomacy on the part of the Arab Palestinians*, the only territory the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control is in Area "A" through the Palestinian Authority; and the Gaza Strip because of the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis.
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Honestly, I dont think Israel ever seriously meant to cede control of Area C to the Palestinians at any time.  Do you?


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Israel ... (has) no valid claim to the land.



Defend this claim.  You will have to outline how you think claims to sovereignty become valid and then show that the Jewish claim to some territory does not meet that criteria.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Km
> Honestly, I dont think Israel ever seriously meant to cede control of Area C to the Palestinians at any time.  Do you?



It has historically been Israel's intent to cede sovereign territory to the Arab Palestinians for the development of their State.  I believe the Oslo Accords are evidence enough of that intent.  As was the lengthy settlement freeze following Oslo. As was the Olmert plan, which included offering parts of Jerusalem, including the Old City and Jewish Holy Places. 

The only question has been, and is, how much territory.  All of Area C?  Probably not. (Hence the language in Oslo that borders were to be determined in the final status agreement).  I think the plan for Area C WAS to annex those places with strong Israeli presence in trade for areas with strong Arab presence.  I think the plan WAS to cede parts of Jerusalem.  And I think the plan WAS to maintain security control over the Jordan valley, at least temporarily. 

But I don't think that is the plan any more.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding,_ et al_,

Well, I think that is partly accurate.



Coyote said:


> Honestly, I dont think Israel ever seriously meant to cede control of Area C to the Palestinians at any time.  Do you?


*(COMMENT)*

In 1967, no one had any idea that there would be such a thing as Areas "A" - "B" - "C."  No one knew that Jordan would eventually abandon an alliance with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).   Or that the PLO would be deeply involved in the events of Black September.



			
				EXCERPT:  Memorandum for SECDEF said:
			
		

> 2. From a strictly military point of view, Israel would require the *retention of some captured territory in order to provide militarily defensible borders.*  Determination of territory to be retained should be *based on accepted tactical principles such as control of commanding terrain, use of natural obstacles, elimination of enemy-held salients*, and provision of defense indepth for important facilities and installations.
> *SOURCE*:  *JCSM-373-67*



The necessity for dividing the West Bank into three distinct administrative areas was _(for all practical purposes)_ impossible to foresee a quarter century beforehand.   While some key terrain was bound to be kept, the immensity of Area "C" could not have been predicted. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with you activists: Leila Aruri and Dalia Fuleihan*

**


----------



## Hollie

Interview with Islamic terrorists - post acts of Islamic terrorism


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> Let's try this just: One - More - Time*!*
> Just a refresher here.   See if you can follow this...
> 
> View attachment 237448​
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically what you are saying is that if you steal something and can hold onto long enough because the officials look the other way you can legally own it?
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY FACTORS)*
> 
> In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem...
> 
> •  *Treaty of Alliance between HM in respect of the UK and HH the Amir of Trans-Jordan, 22 March 1946* •
> 
> View attachment 237451​
> •   *Unification of the Two Banks*
> 
> ◈  On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament* unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> SOURCE:  History Website: kinghussein.gov → Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
> •  *Disengagement from the West Bank*  •
> 
> ◈   On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the *severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank*. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> •  *Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933 * •
> *◈    ARTICLE 3*
> *The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.* Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Prior to the Annexation of the West Bank by Jordanian parliament in which of the MPs were Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank _(this would be by the Right of independence and Sovereignty)_. the Government of Palestine (the UK) maintained effective control by Mandate.  In 1950 the King of Jordan incorporated the West Bank into the greater Sovereignty of Jordan.  In 1967, the State of Israel, in pursuit of retreating Jordanian military forces, assume effective control of the West Bank.  This made the West Bank Jordanian territory under Israeli occupation.  On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
> 
> Let me say this again.
> 
> On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​This nonsense you spout: "because the officials look the other way" is absolutely incorrect and unsubstantiated in any fashion.  The King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan did not look the other way, he even made a *radio address to the citizens* of his nation and the world at large.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians had any control at all in the West Bank or Jerusalem, it is only because the Israelis allow it.  Currently, because of the very poor diplomacy on the part of the Arab Palestinians, the only territory the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control is in Area "A" through the Palestinian Authority; and the Gaza Strip because of the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis.
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Everything which proceeds from bad fruit is bad. If the initial claim is bad fruit everything which proceeds from it is bad too. No matter how lipstick or fancy dresses one puts on a pig, at the end of the day it is still a pig.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding,_ et al_,

This is not an applicable case for the concept of the "Fruit of the PosionousTree." 



ding said:


> Everything which proceeds from bad fruit is bad. If the initial claim is bad fruit everything which proceeds from it is bad too. No matter how lipstick or fancy dresses one puts on a pig, at the end of the day it is still a pig.


*(COMMENT)*

The "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" is a phrase coined to describe tainted or compromised evidence.   It is not applicable to either national or international decision-making processes.

The analogous criticism in the various decision-making processes is "competency" _(an ability to perform)_ and "capacity,"_ (fundamental action that supports of nullifies the element of intent)_.  

*(PROCESS)*

Whether or not the "pig" went to the Royal Fancy Dress Ball is NOT the issue.  The decision to go leads to the consequence of the action.  *IF* the prince is deeply affected _(holding a strong attraction)_ for the "pig" *THEN* the decision however good or bad the "lipstick" had the desired cosmetic effect.  You cannot go to Divorce Court years later on the grounds that the princess is a "pig."  

*(EXCEPTION)*

Well, you might get away with it IF the "pig" was wearing a _niqab_ _(leaves only the eyes uncovered)_ or especially a _burka_ _(everything covered)_.  You might get a little T 'n' A _(that would be - toes and ankles)_ but that would be all.  THEN that might be used as an extenuating circumstance.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



You spent all your welfare money funding Islamic terrorism.


----------



## Hollie

Hamas spent all the welfare money


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>




Photoshop.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Segment 1 of “Eyewitness Gaza: Life After the 2014 Invasion” features Dr. Alice Rothchild’s*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorists Unite - Feel The Rush


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Gee-had for 5th Graders


*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Isn't that the same girl who said Palestinian youth's main problem is smoking hashish in bars, 
instead of participating in the conflict?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



She should stop acting as if everyone owes something to the PLO,
this really isn't helping their cause, isolation from the Arab world is their biggest mistake.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Hollie, et al,

Yes, it is hard to believe that the Arab Palestinian is not involved in the Generational Transfer of hatred.  After all, violence is the prefered method for Arab Palestinian negotiation. 



Hollie said:


> *Gee-had for 5th Graders
> *


*(COMMENT)*

Of all the sociopaths seen and cataloged since 911, the Arab Palestinians may not be at the top of the ranking, but they would have to be in the top 10 cultures that are epidemically afflicted with a contagious mental disorder exhibiting extreme hostile attitudes, criminal behaviors and a general lack of conscience.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Hollie, et al,
> 
> Yes, it is hard to believe that the Arab Palestinian is not involved in the Generational Transfer of hatred.  After all, violence is the prefered method for Arab Palestinian negotiation.
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Gee-had for 5th Graders
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of all the sociopaths seen and cataloged since 911, the Arab Palestinians may not be at the top of the ranking, but they would have to be in the top 10 cultures that are epidemically afflicted with a contagious mental disorder exhibiting extreme hostile attitudes, criminal behaviors and a general lack of conscience.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Very true, Rocco.

Just think. 
If the Arab people (or their leaders) had chosen peaceful coexistence with the Jewish people back in 1948, we might now be recognizing, 70 years later, a Palestinian State.


Or maybe not.


The territory assigned to the Arab people in the UN Partition of 1947 more likely would have become part of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. But in either case, there would have been _mutual_ acceptance and opportunity for _mutual_ growth and prosperity. The forced expulsion and mass exodus of ~850,000 Arab Jews from the new Arab States would have not occurred--though naturally many may have emigrated to live their lives freely as Jews (and not as dhimmis) with full respect and equality under Israeli Law.

What energies and dedication could have been placed by the Arab people for betterment of their lives and those of their children if their focus had been on their own growth as modern nationstates and not on scapegoating hatred and bigotry toward Israel specifically and Jews in general?


Choices were made.
And we can only dream of what _could have been_ if peaceful co-existence was the path chosen by Arabs-Moslems as opposed to choosing the path of hate-mongers such as Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini and the roll call of Arab-Moslem dictators, terrorists, misfits and gee-had wannabes who have replaced him.  

_"Arabs, arise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you."_
_--_The Mufti and the Fuehrer, Joseph Schechtman,1965


...and Arab League leader Azaam Paasha: 

_"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades_"
--Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001_._ p.219


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian freedom fighter Leila Khaled speaks at anti-APEC protest in Manila*


----------



## rylah

*The women's Jihad army of the Palestinian Caliphate*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine: United We Stand. United We Dream*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Hamas: The Iranian Shia Lackeys

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toobfreak

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Today* Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?



The real question OUGHT to be Palestine about 60 years ago, who they'd be now, and what the hell were they doing passing up that SWELL deal offered them by the UN to take a BUNCH of land, SETTLE, and live happy and peacefully.

I guess common sense just isn't in the muslim heart.


----------



## Hollie

Islamic Terrorist Cultural Event


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> Let's try this just: One - More - Time*!*
> Just a refresher here.   See if you can follow this...
> 
> View attachment 237448​
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically what you are saying is that if you steal something and can hold onto long enough because the officials look the other way you can legally own it?
> 
> 
> 
> *(KEY FACTORS)*
> 
> In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem...
> 
> •  *Treaty of Alliance between HM in respect of the UK and HH the Amir of Trans-Jordan, 22 March 1946* •
> 
> View attachment 237451​
> •   *Unification of the Two Banks*
> 
> ◈  On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament* unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan* in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> SOURCE:  History Website: kinghussein.gov → Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan​
> •  *Disengagement from the West Bank*  •
> 
> ◈   On July 28, 1988, King Hussein announced the cessation of a $1.3 billion development program for the West Bank, explaining that the measure was designed to allow the PLO more responsibility for the area. Two days later, he formally dissolved Parliament, ending West Bank representation in the legislature. Finally, on July 31 King Hussein announced the *severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank*. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This disengagement decision marks the turning point that launched the current democratic process, and began a new stage in Jordan’s relationship with West Bank Palestinians.​
> •  *Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933 * •
> *◈    ARTICLE 3*
> *The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.* Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Prior to the Annexation of the West Bank by Jordanian parliament in which of the MPs were Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank _(this would be by the Right of independence and Sovereignty)_. the Government of Palestine (the UK) maintained effective control by Mandate.  In 1950 the King of Jordan incorporated the West Bank into the greater Sovereignty of Jordan.  In 1967, the State of Israel, in pursuit of retreating Jordanian military forces, assume effective control of the West Bank.  This made the West Bank Jordanian territory under Israeli occupation.  On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
> 
> Let me say this again.
> 
> On 31 July 1988,  The Kingdom of Jordan cut all administrative and legal ties with the West Bank, leaving the West Bank in the hands of Israel without protest or other contest by the original sovereign → HM King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.​This nonsense you spout: "because the officials look the other way" is absolutely incorrect and unsubstantiated in any fashion.  The King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan did not look the other way, he even made a *radio address to the citizens* of his nation and the world at large.
> 
> If the Arab Palestinians had any control at all in the West Bank or Jerusalem, it is only because the Israelis allow it.  Currently, because of the very poor diplomacy on the part of the Arab Palestinians, the only territory the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control is in Area "A" through the Palestinian Authority; and the Gaza Strip because of the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis.
> 
> Any questions?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Yes, was it contested in the first place?


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel ... (has) no valid claim to the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defend this claim.  You will have to outline how you think claims to sovereignty become valid and then show that the Jewish claim to some territory does not meet that criteria.
Click to expand...

Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> This is not an applicable case for the concept of the "Fruit of the PosionousTree."
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything which proceeds from bad fruit is bad. If the initial claim is bad fruit everything which proceeds from it is bad too. No matter how lipstick or fancy dresses one puts on a pig, at the end of the day it is still a pig.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree" is a phrase coined to describe tainted or compromised evidence.   It is not applicable to either national or international decision-making processes.
> 
> The analogous criticism in the various decision-making processes is "competency" _(an ability to perform)_ and "capacity,"_ (fundamental action that supports of nullifies the element of intent)_.
> 
> *(PROCESS)*
> 
> Whether or not the "pig" went to the Royal Fancy Dress Ball is NOT the issue.  The decision to go leads to the consequence of the action.  *IF* the prince is deeply affected _(holding a strong attraction)_ for the "pig" *THEN* the decision however good or bad the "lipstick" had the desired cosmetic effect.  You cannot go to Divorce Court years later on the grounds that the princess is a "pig."
> 
> *(EXCEPTION)*
> 
> Well, you might get away with it IF the "pig" was wearing a _niqab_ _(leaves only the eyes uncovered)_ or especially a _burka_ _(everything covered)_.  You might get a little T 'n' A _(that would be - toes and ankles)_ but that would be all.  THEN that might be used as an extenuating circumstance.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How to be a Palestinian supermom*

**


----------



## Hollie

*How to be an Arab-Moslem supercultist



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: Is it your right to throw stones?*


----------



## Hollie

Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault. 

But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.





Hollie said:


> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.


Violence is Israel's answer to everything.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ding,_ et al_,

These are related questions of the same family tree.



ding said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

After the cessation of hostilities of the Great War_ (the guns come to a halt gradually)_ and political remnants began to solidify out of the four Great Empires that collapsed and fell _[Imperial German (Kaiser Wilhelm II), Imperial Russian (Tsar Nicholas II), Ottoman Empire,(Sultan Abdulmejid II, Caliph), & Austro-Hungarian (Karl Franz Joseph)]_, the Allied Powers presented the Treaty of Sevres to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic.  The treaty was accepted and signed by:

※  Senator and General HAADI Pasha;
※  Senator RIZA TEVFIK Bey;
※  Minister RECHAD HALISS Bey, Special Envoy and Ambassador of Turkey at Berne;​
However, the Treaty was rejected by Field Marshal Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and at the conclusion of the Turkish War of Independence, Field Marshal Atatürk, founded the new Republic.  The Treaty of Sevres was never ratified by the Turkish Senate (ie President Atatürk), and a new Treaty (the Treaty of Lausanne) was concocted.

The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Sevres:

*•  SECTION XIII. - GENERAL PROVISIONS.** ARTICLE 132*  •

Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.

Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers, in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
This essentially replaces the Armistice of Mudros, which was considered the Surrender of the Ottoman Empire and the conclusion of that theater of the Great War.

•  *Article XVI - Mudros Agreement: Armistice with Turkey, October 30, 1918*  •

Surrender of all garrisons in Hedjaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied Commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cicilia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause V.​
After the Armistice went into effect, the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) took responsibility and relinquished it on July 1920 to the Civil Administration which would become the authority, under which the Mandate for Palestine would be assigned.

Upon establishment of the new Republic, President Atatürk, accepted the negotiated terms of the Treaty.  The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Lausanne:

*•  SECTION I - TERRITORIAL CLAUSES - **ARTICLE 16*  •

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same.  The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers.  This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."  The sovereign over the former territory of the Ottoman Empire renounced the Title and Rights to the Allied Powers by Treaty _(one sovereign to a collective of sovereigns)_.

I hope this answered your questions

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is Israel's answer to everything.
Click to expand...


Resistance is the answer to the islamist gee-had, plus a little assist from Lockheed-Martin.

Many may not know this but Islam Lockheed-Martin means_ submission_.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> These are related questions of the same family tree.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the cessation of hostilities of the Great War_ (the guns come to a halt gradually)_ and political remnants began to solidify out of the four Great Empires that collapsed and fell _[Imperial German (Kaiser Wilhelm II), Imperial Russian (Tsar Nicholas II), Ottoman Empire,(Sultan Abdulmejid II, Caliph), & Austro-Hungarian (Karl Franz Joseph)]_, the Allied Powers presented the Treaty of Sevres to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic.  The treaty was accepted and signed by:
> 
> ※  Senator and General HAADI Pasha;
> ※  Senator RIZA TEVFIK Bey;
> ※  Minister RECHAD HALISS Bey, Special Envoy and Ambassador of Turkey at Berne;​
> However, the Treaty was rejected by Field Marshal Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and at the conclusion of the Turkish War of Independence, Field Marshal Atatürk, founded the new Republic.  The Treaty of Sevres was never ratified by the Turkish Senate (ie President Atatürk), and a new Treaty (the Treaty of Lausanne) was concocted.
> 
> The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Sevres:
> 
> *•  SECTION XIII. - GENERAL PROVISIONS.** ARTICLE 132*  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers, in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> This essentially replaces the Armistice of Mudros, which was considered the Surrender of the Ottoman Empire and the conclusion of that theater of the Great War.
> 
> •  *Article XVI - Mudros Agreement: Armistice with Turkey, October 30, 1918*  •
> 
> Surrender of all garrisons in Hedjaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied Commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cicilia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause V.​
> After the Armistice went into effect, the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) took responsibility and relinquished it on July 1920 to the Civil Administration which would become the authority, under which the Mandate for Palestine would be assigned.
> 
> Upon establishment of the new Republic, President Atatürk, accepted the negotiated terms of the Treaty.  The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> *•  SECTION I - TERRITORIAL CLAUSES - **ARTICLE 16*  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same.  The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers.  This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."  The sovereign over the former territory of the Ottoman Empire renounced the Title and Rights to the Allied Powers by Treaty _(one sovereign to a collective of sovereigns)_.
> 
> I hope this answered your questions
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same. The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers. This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."


The land and citizenship were transferred directly to the people in their respective defined territories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is Israel's answer to everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Resistance is the answer to the islamist gee-had, plus a little assist from Lockheed-Martin.
> 
> Many may not know this but Islam Lockheed-Martin means_ submission_.
Click to expand...

Indeed, violence is Israel's answer to everything.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs-Moslems, it your your right to be arrested, or worse, for assault.
> 
> But don’t mind PF Tinmore, your arrest will net him a YouTube video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Violence is Israel's answer to everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Resistance is the answer to the islamist gee-had, plus a little assist from Lockheed-Martin.
> 
> Many may not know this but Islam Lockheed-Martin means_ submission_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, violence is Israel's answer to everything.
Click to expand...


Indeed, you’re stuttering and mumbling. 

Indeed, I believe most rational people understand that gee-had attacks from Islamic terrorist franchises will elicit a response. 

Indeed, you obviously can’t address why israel responds to islamic terrorist attacks with such measures as targeted air strikes with precision munitions as opposed to area-wide bombing of Islamic terrorist infrastructure.

Indeed, Israel could have chosen to respond to the Islamic terrorist border  gee-had attacks with artillery and air strikes but did not. 

Indeed, your belief that gee-had attacks are to be an entitlement without consequence is rather comical as you wage your gee-had from a kuffar innovated keyboard across the kuffar innovated and maintained web.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.



Israel's claim is based on the same claim of self-determination that the Arab Palestinian claim is.  (Though the Jewish claim is the stronger claim).  Did you want to argue against the principle of self-determination?


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?



Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore,_ et al_,

You get this wrong - every -- single --- time_!_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same. The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers. This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."
> 
> 
> 
> The land and citizenship were transferred directly to the people in their respective defined territories.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are confusing the Political Phrase "Rights and Title" with the real estate term for land _(about the only civil right at the time)_.  But don't confuse ownership and real estate property rights with sovereign territorial issues.  And don't confuse nationality status with sovereignty. 

The Article 30 address on nationality was an effect by the Allied Powers to ensure there were no "stateless people.  It represents a very early attempt at, what is covered today, in the Convention Related to the Status of Stateless People (CRSSP)(1954).  Article 2 of the CRSSP addresses that:  Every Stateless person has a duty to the country in which he finds himself, which requires in particular that he conform to its laws and regulations as well as to measures taken for the maintenance of public order.  It is a very complex Convention that was thought to cover the wholes found unaddressed by treaty arrangements. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> These are related questions of the same family tree.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the cessation of hostilities of the Great War_ (the guns come to a halt gradually)_ and political remnants began to solidify out of the four Great Empires that collapsed and fell _[Imperial German (Kaiser Wilhelm II), Imperial Russian (Tsar Nicholas II), Ottoman Empire,(Sultan Abdulmejid II, Caliph), & Austro-Hungarian (Karl Franz Joseph)]_, the Allied Powers presented the Treaty of Sevres to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic.  The treaty was accepted and signed by:
> 
> ※  Senator and General HAADI Pasha;
> ※  Senator RIZA TEVFIK Bey;
> ※  Minister RECHAD HALISS Bey, Special Envoy and Ambassador of Turkey at Berne;​
> However, the Treaty was rejected by Field Marshal Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and at the conclusion of the Turkish War of Independence, Field Marshal Atatürk, founded the new Republic.  The Treaty of Sevres was never ratified by the Turkish Senate (ie President Atatürk), and a new Treaty (the Treaty of Lausanne) was concocted.
> 
> The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Sevres:
> 
> *•  SECTION XIII. - GENERAL PROVISIONS.** ARTICLE 132*  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers, in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> This essentially replaces the Armistice of Mudros, which was considered the Surrender of the Ottoman Empire and the conclusion of that theater of the Great War.
> 
> •  *Article XVI - Mudros Agreement: Armistice with Turkey, October 30, 1918*  •
> 
> Surrender of all garrisons in Hedjaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied Commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cicilia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause V.​
> After the Armistice went into effect, the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) took responsibility and relinquished it on July 1920 to the Civil Administration which would become the authority, under which the Mandate for Palestine would be assigned.
> 
> Upon establishment of the new Republic, President Atatürk, accepted the negotiated terms of the Treaty.  The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> *•  SECTION I - TERRITORIAL CLAUSES - **ARTICLE 16*  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same.  The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers.  This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."  The sovereign over the former territory of the Ottoman Empire renounced the Title and Rights to the Allied Powers by Treaty _(one sovereign to a collective of sovereigns)_.
> 
> I hope this answered your questions
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same. The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers. This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land and citizenship were transferred directly to the people in their respective defined territories.
Click to expand...


This is what, the 8433rd time you have made that nonsense claim?

And no, this is not the thread to cut and paste your usual collections of out of context snippets.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The land and citizenship were transferred directly to the people in their respective defined territories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Yalla Talk TV- Adwa2 - Palestinian Festival in Ottawa*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Islamic Misfit Festival


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rebuilding the Gaza Strip: Obstacles and Opportunities*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MKV - Najat El-Khairy - Journey of a Palestinian Artist at the United Nations*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> *MKV - Najat El-Khairy - Journey of a Palestinian Artist at the United Nations*
> 
> **


Vote in the UN to recognize Palestine as a state.
138 in favor.
41 chickens.
9 assholes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh: Can an Alternative Solution be Found?*

**


----------



## Hollie

There is a solution to Islamic terrorist attacks


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Helen Caldicott interviews Laila ElHaddad and Elik Elhanan One of Five*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Actually, that is not what the Resolution _[on the Anniversary of Resolution A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947]_ A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 actually said.





•  11/29/2012 
	
A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the UN/non-member observer State status - GA resolution  •​


P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MKV - Najat El-Khairy - Journey of a Palestinian Artist at the United Nations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Vote in the UN to recognize Palestine as a state.
> 138 in favor.
> 41 chickens.
> 9 assholes.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What amazes me is that the Arab Palestinians cannot even talk about that event without twisting the facts.
[





			
				EXCERPT from A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 said:
			
		

> 2. _Decides_ to accord to Palestine *non-member observer State status in the United Nations*, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;




It does not say anything about a UN general assembly vote on membership for the state of Palestine.  This is a very specific *"non-member"* status.

In fact, it should be noted that the A/RES/67/19 made note of the 11 November 2011 report of the Security Council Committee on the Admission of New Members, S/2011/705.

•  11/11/2011 
	
S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report of the SecCo Committee on the Admission of New Members  •​


			
				S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report said:
			
		

> 21. In summing up the debate at the 110th meeting of the Committee, the Chair stated that the Committee was unable to make a unanimous recommendation to the Security Council.



I didn't understand it then, and still don't understand, how the Arab Palestinians point to this document as making some special recognition.  It simple does not.

Under International Law [Article 3 - Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933] specifically states "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."  Self-recognition was made and recorded in the "Political Communiqué of the Palestine National Council and the Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988."

"The Palestine National Council hereby declares,
in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people,
the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine
with its capital at Jerusalem."​
This is much to-do about nothing.  More twisted misinformation that further places in question the credibility of the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R[/INDENT]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Actually, that is not what the Resolution _[on the Anniversary of Resolution A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947]_ A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 actually said.




•  11/29/2012 
	
A/RES/67/19 Status of Palestine in the UN/non-member observer State status - GA resolution  •​


P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MKV - Najat El-Khairy - Journey of a Palestinian Artist at the United Nations*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Vote in the UN to recognize Palestine as a state.
> 138 in favor.
> 41 chickens.
> 9 assholes.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What amazes me is that the Arab Palestinians cannot even talk about that event without twisting the facts.


			
				EXCERPT from A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012 said:
			
		

> 2. _Decides_ to accord to Palestine *non-member observer State status in the United Nations*, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;



It does not say anything about a UN general assembly vote on membership for the state of Palestine.  This is a very specific *"non-member"* status.

In fact, it should be noted that the A/RES/67/19 made note of the 11 November 2011 report of the Security Council Committee on the Admission of New Members, S/2011/705.

•  11/11/2011 
	
S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report of the SecCo Committee on the Admission of New Members  •​


			
				S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report said:
			
		

> 21. In summing up the debate at the 110th meeting of the Committee, the Chair stated that the Committee was unable to make a unanimous recommendation to the Security Council.



I didn't understand it then, and still don't understand, how the Arab Palestinians point to this document as making some special recognition.  It simple does not.

Under International Law [Article 3 - Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933] specifically states "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states."  Self-recognition was made and recorded in the "Political Communiqué of the Palestine National Council and the Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988."

"The Palestine National Council hereby declares,
in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people,
the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine
with its capital at Jerusalem."​
This is much to-do about nothing.  More twisted misinformation that further places in question the credibility of the Arab Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> In fact, it should be noted that the A/RES/67/19 made note of the 11 November 2011 report of the Security Council Committee on the Admission of New Members, S/2011/705.
> 
> • 11/11/2011
> 
> S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report of the SecCo Committee on the Admission of New Members •​


What a load of political hooey.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Under International Law [Article 3 - Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933] specifically states "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states." Self-recognition was made and recorded in the "Political Communiqué of the Palestine National Council and the Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988."
> ​


Indeed, and self recognition was also made in 1948. Even though recognition was not required of other states, five other states recognized Palestine in 1948. Palestine was recognized as a state during the Mandate period by most states including the US who had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.

*ARTICLE 4*

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.​
External interference by greater powers, i.e. military occupation, do not negate the right of a state to exist as a person under international law.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under International Law [Article 3 - Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933] specifically states "The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states." Self-recognition was made and recorded in the "Political Communiqué of the Palestine National Council and the Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988."
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and self recognition was also made in 1948. Even though recognition was not required of other states, five other states recognized Palestine in 1948. Palestine was recognized as a state during the Mandate period by most states including the US who had a trade agreement with Palestine in 1932.
> 
> *ARTICLE 4*
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.​
> External interference by greater powers, i.e. military occupation, do not negate the right of a state to exist as a person under international law.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Arabs-moslems can make multiple claims to statehood but indeed, doing nothing to establish the parameters of a viable state makes such claims rather meaningless, indeed.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, it should be noted that the A/RES/67/19 made note of the 11 November 2011 report of the Security Council Committee on the Admission of New Members, S/2011/705.
> 
> • 11/11/2011
> 
> S/2011/705 Palestine's UN application - Report of the SecCo Committee on the Admission of New Members •​
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of political hooey.
Click to expand...


Could you birfurcate that detailed response into two parts for an easier read?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


>



How lucky for you that the retrograde Islamist society teaches youngsters from the earliest age to hate themselves and hate Jews. 

Just incredible that you support that kind of child abuse.


----------



## Hollie

Such a retrograde collection of Islamic terrorist franchises.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*81 Year Old Commodore Amiga Artist - Samia Halaby (4K UHD)*

**


----------



## Hollie

No art classes for little Muhammud


----------



## RoccoR

Just About Today, even in Palestine
  To all,

I'm, just for a spirit of the season, wishing all the best for the coming New Year.  And I was just getting use to writing 2018. 

Sincerely,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Just About Today, even in Palestine
> To all,
> 
> I'm, just for a spirit of the season, wishing all the best for the coming New Year.  And I was just getting use to writing 2018.
> 
> Sincerely,
> R


Thank you, Rocco, I hope 2019 treats you well.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Longing and Belonging: Voyages with Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## Hollie

*Longing and Belonging to the Cult


*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What a ridiculous propaganda.
"This is the amount of destruction" - and she shows a pillow thrown on stairs...

UN themselves confirm and condemn Gazans for using schools as military bases to fire rockets and store ammunition.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Jewish immigrants from Russia?


----------



## rylah

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How lucky for you that the retrograde Islamist society teaches youngsters from the earliest age to hate themselves and hate Jews.
> 
> Just incredible that you support that kind of child abuse.
Click to expand...


They're lucky to have Israel as the enemy and not one of those Arab regimes.
They even get an opportunity to study for free and get a degree in an educational system that is better than 99% of what they have in any of the Arab countries.

Look at Tamimi - 8 months in Israeli jail, and all of a sudden she's interested in school and starts talking about things other than suicide bombing and how to stab people.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,

Just the Introduction to this video was enough to make me gag.  Seventy years since the dispossession (Nakba) and violation of their rights.  But it would be hard to believe that it could be anything but biased against the Israelis with guest speakers Nadia Hijab _(Co-founder of Nadia Hijab is co-founder and board president of Al-Shabaka and biased Human Rights journalist)_, Zena Agha _(a Palestinian-Iraqi writer and poet from London)_ and Yara Hawari _(a British Palestinian anti-Israeli activist)_, representing the Palestinian Policy Network (PPN) at the Palestinian Center. 

You have to love it.  Right at the start, they indicate that what defines Palestine and the Palestinian People has been steadily circumscribed.  _(Portions of the Arab Palestinians people have differing views on the matter.)_

They believe that the majority of the Palestinian People (which they cannot agree on exactly what that means) 


P F Tinmore said:


> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*
> 
> **


*(COMMENT)*

They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).  But what I found interesting is that they open by saying that from 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians were under Military Rule _(by Arab League countries of Jordan and Egypt)_.

All in all, I found it to be a complete waste of time.

Just My Critique.
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Just the Introduction to this video was enough to make me gag.  Seventy years since the dispossession (Nakba) and violation of their rights.  But it would be hard to believe that it could be anything but biased against the Israelis with guest speakers Nadia Hijab _(Co-founder of Nadia Hijab is co-founder and board president of Al-Shabaka and biased Human Rights journalist)_, Zena Agha _(a Palestinian-Iraqi writer and poet from London)_ and Yara Hawari _(a British Palestinian anti-Israeli activist)_, representing the Palestinian Policy Network (PPN) at the Palestinian Center.
> 
> You have to love it.  Right at the start, they indicate that what defines Palestine and the Palestinian People has been steadily circumscribed.  _(Portions of the Arab Palestinians people have differing views on the matter.)_
> 
> They believe that the majority of the Palestinian People (which they cannot agree on exactly what that means)
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).  But what I found interesting is that they open by saying that from 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians were under Military Rule _(by Arab League countries of Jordan and Egypt)_.
> 
> All in all, I found it to be a complete waste of time.
> 
> Just My Critique.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> But what I found interesting is that they open by saying that from 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians were under Military Rule _(by Arab League countries of Jordan and Egypt)_.


That is not what she said. The Palestinians who remained in Israel lived under Israeli military rule from 1948 to 1966.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Just the Introduction to this video was enough to make me gag.  Seventy years since the dispossession (Nakba) and violation of their rights.  But it would be hard to believe that it could be anything but biased against the Israelis with guest speakers Nadia Hijab _(Co-founder of Nadia Hijab is co-founder and board president of Al-Shabaka and biased Human Rights journalist)_, Zena Agha _(a Palestinian-Iraqi writer and poet from London)_ and Yara Hawari _(a British Palestinian anti-Israeli activist)_, representing the Palestinian Policy Network (PPN) at the Palestinian Center.
> 
> You have to love it.  Right at the start, they indicate that what defines Palestine and the Palestinian People has been steadily circumscribed.  _(Portions of the Arab Palestinians people have differing views on the matter.)_
> 
> They believe that the majority of the Palestinian People (which they cannot agree on exactly what that means)
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).  But what I found interesting is that they open by saying that from 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians were under Military Rule _(by Arab League countries of Jordan and Egypt)_.
> 
> All in all, I found it to be a complete waste of time.
> 
> Just My Critique.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).


It was not to change the narrative as much as it was to set a focus. Ethnic cleansing, settler colonialism, and apartheid are all valid arguments. However, apartheid is illegal by statute and would be more fruitful to pursue.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,

OH, that is so strange.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is not what she said. The Palestinians who remained in Israel lived under Israeli military rule from 1948 to 1966.


*(COMMENT)*

I could have sworn that the West Bank was under Joran and the Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Governor.  None of Israel _(former territory under the Mandate minus the West Bank and Gaza Stript)_ was under Military Rule. (1948-1966)

NONE of the Arabs Palestinians lining in Israel form 1948 to the Present were under military rule.  Israel has had a continuous civil authority since the day it declared independence.  _(At least that is how I understand it.  Do you know something different?)_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OH, that is so strange.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not what she said. The Palestinians who remained in Israel lived under Israeli military rule from 1948 to 1966.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I could have sworn that the West Bank was under Joran and the Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Governor.  None of Israel _(former territory under the Mandate minus the West Bank and Gaza Stript)_ was under Military Rule. (1948-1966)
> 
> NONE of the Arabs Palestinians lining in Israel form 1948 to the Present were under military rule.  Israel has had a continuous civil authority since the day it declared independence.  _(At least that is how I understand it.  Do you know something different?)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> NONE of the Arabs Palestinians lining in Israel form 1948 to the Present were under military rule.


*Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> OH, that is so strange.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not what she said. The Palestinians who remained in Israel lived under Israeli military rule from 1948 to 1966.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I could have sworn that the West Bank was under Joran and the Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Governor.  None of Israel _(former territory under the Mandate minus the West Bank and Gaza Stript)_ was under Military Rule. (1948-1966)
> 
> NONE of the Arabs Palestinians lining in Israel form 1948 to the Present were under military rule.  Israel has had a continuous civil authority since the day it declared independence.  _(At least that is how I understand it.  Do you know something different?)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> NONE of the Arabs Palestinians lining in Israel form 1948 to the Present were under military rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Citizen Strangers Minority Rights in the State of Israel*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


*
Israel’s Version of Democracy Is in Good Health*
Israel now ranks 30th out of 167 countries in the Economist Intelligence Unit’s annual survey of national democracies. It is sandwiched between France and Belgium. The Economist calls these “Flawed democracies,” a designation that also include the United States. *The IDI survey also found 88 percent of Israeli Jews see their country in a positive light and are proud to be its citizens. (Interestingly, 51% of Israeli Arabs feel that way.)*


Q. Do PA and Hamas have at least a single Jewish citizen to conduct such a survey?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Hollie

*Arab-Moslem Shame Sack





*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al_,
> 
> Just the Introduction to this video was enough to make me gag.  Seventy years since the dispossession (Nakba) and violation of their rights.  But it would be hard to believe that it could be anything but biased against the Israelis with guest speakers Nadia Hijab _(Co-founder of Nadia Hijab is co-founder and board president of Al-Shabaka and biased Human Rights journalist)_, Zena Agha _(a Palestinian-Iraqi writer and poet from London)_ and Yara Hawari _(a British Palestinian anti-Israeli activist)_, representing the Palestinian Policy Network (PPN) at the Palestinian Center.
> 
> You have to love it.  Right at the start, they indicate that what defines Palestine and the Palestinian People has been steadily circumscribed.  _(Portions of the Arab Palestinians people have differing views on the matter.)_
> 
> They believe that the majority of the Palestinian People (which they cannot agree on exactly what that means)
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Re-framing the Narrative for Palestinian Rights and Justice*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).  But what I found interesting is that they open by saying that from 1948 to 1966, the Palestinians were under Military Rule _(by Arab League countries of Jordan and Egypt)_.
> 
> All in all, I found it to be a complete waste of time.
> 
> Just My Critique.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are recommending views on how to re-frame (change the narrative).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was not to change the narrative as much as it was to set a focus. Ethnic cleansing, settler colonialism, and apartheid are all valid arguments. However, apartheid is illegal by statute and would be more fruitful to pursue.
Click to expand...


Pursue it then. Enlighten us, please do.


----------



## Hollie

In 2018 she became just another recipient of radical leftist identity politics. 

It really is a shame that the radical left has been reduced to the level of know-nothing haters.


*New Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib Goes off on Trump: ‘We’re Going to Impeach the Motherf*cker!’*

*Twitter*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, using a expletive talking about President Trump. Wouldn’t expect anything else from a Muslim


----------



## Hollie

It sure didnt take long for the new darlings of the radical left to announce their agenda.

Rashida Tlaib's New Office Map: Israel Renamed 'Palestine' | Breitbart

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) was joined by political activist Linda Sarsour during her swearing-in ceremony on as a congresswoman on Thursday in Washington, DC. On the same day, a map in her new congressional office was photographed with an attached sticky note identifying Israel as “Palestine.”*


It's no surprise that the only apparent agenda of the Arab-Moslem haters is to join forces to press their Jew hating  pathology.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hollie said:


> It sure didnt take long for the new darlings of the radical left to announce their agenda.
> 
> Rashida Tlaib's New Office Map: Israel Renamed 'Palestine' | Breitbart
> 
> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) was joined by political activist Linda Sarsour during her swearing-in ceremony on as a congresswoman on Thursday in Washington, DC. On the same day, a map in her new congressional office was photographed with an attached sticky note identifying Israel as “Palestine.”*
> 
> 
> It's no surprise that the only apparent agenda of the Arab-Moslem haters is to join forces to press their Jew hating  pathology.



So much for “ International Law” and the “ Two State Solution “. Notice how quiet Tinmore suddenly is??


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It sure didnt take long for the new darlings of the radical left to announce their agenda.
> 
> Rashida Tlaib's New Office Map: Israel Renamed 'Palestine' | Breitbart
> 
> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) was joined by political activist Linda Sarsour during her swearing-in ceremony on as a congresswoman on Thursday in Washington, DC. On the same day, a map in her new congressional office was photographed with an attached sticky note identifying Israel as “Palestine.”*
> 
> 
> It's no surprise that the only apparent agenda of the Arab-Moslem haters is to join forces to press their Jew hating  pathology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much for “ International Law” and the “ Two State Solution “. Notice how quiet Tinmore suddenly is??
Click to expand...

When did they ever mention Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar's arrest condemned by Palestinian groups*

**


----------



## ding

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ding,_ et al_,
> 
> These are related questions of the same family tree.
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> After the cessation of hostilities of the Great War_ (the guns come to a halt gradually)_ and political remnants began to solidify out of the four Great Empires that collapsed and fell _[Imperial German (Kaiser Wilhelm II), Imperial Russian (Tsar Nicholas II), Ottoman Empire,(Sultan Abdulmejid II, Caliph), & Austro-Hungarian (Karl Franz Joseph)]_, the Allied Powers presented the Treaty of Sevres to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic.  The treaty was accepted and signed by:
> 
> ※  Senator and General HAADI Pasha;
> ※  Senator RIZA TEVFIK Bey;
> ※  Minister RECHAD HALISS Bey, Special Envoy and Ambassador of Turkey at Berne;​
> However, the Treaty was rejected by Field Marshal Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and at the conclusion of the Turkish War of Independence, Field Marshal Atatürk, founded the new Republic.  The Treaty of Sevres was never ratified by the Turkish Senate (ie President Atatürk), and a new Treaty (the Treaty of Lausanne) was concocted.
> 
> The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Sevres:
> 
> *•  SECTION XIII. - GENERAL PROVISIONS.** ARTICLE 132*  •
> 
> Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
> 
> Turkey undertakes to recognise and conform to the measures which may be taken now or in the future by the Principal Allied Powers, in agreement where necessary with third Powers, in order to carry the above stipulation into effect.​
> This essentially replaces the Armistice of Mudros, which was considered the Surrender of the Ottoman Empire and the conclusion of that theater of the Great War.
> 
> •  *Article XVI - Mudros Agreement: Armistice with Turkey, October 30, 1918*  •
> 
> Surrender of all garrisons in Hedjaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied Commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cicilia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause V.​
> After the Armistice went into effect, the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) took responsibility and relinquished it on July 1920 to the Civil Administration which would become the authority, under which the Mandate for Palestine would be assigned.
> 
> Upon establishment of the new Republic, President Atatürk, accepted the negotiated terms of the Treaty.  The applicable paragraph in the Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> *•  SECTION I - TERRITORIAL CLAUSES - **ARTICLE 16*  •
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> While the wording is different, the effect was essentially the same.  The "rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories" were relinquished to the Allied Powers.  This is the "basis did it have for granting Israel any land."  The sovereign over the former territory of the Ottoman Empire renounced the Title and Rights to the Allied Powers by Treaty _(one sovereign to a collective of sovereigns)_.
> 
> I hope this answered your questions
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

No. It doesn’t. Clearly the people living there did not agree with the right of anyone to establish boundaries. Especially boundaries that were based upon biblical texts.

If as people such as yourself believe these biblical accounts were fairytales then those boundaries are fairytales themselves.

You can’t have it both ways.


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim is based on the same claim of self-determination that the Arab Palestinian claim is.  (Though the Jewish claim is the stronger claim).  Did you want to argue against the principle of self-determination?
Click to expand...

I want to argue the basis for the boundaries and the claim that Israel is entitled to that land based upon fairytales. 

You people may not believe that the establishment of the nation of Israel after WWII was based upon biblical texts, but I can assure you that the powers who granted Israel that land did. 

So which is it?  Are those boundaries a fairytale or not?


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
Click to expand...

No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries. 

They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands. 

Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar speaks on Israeli Restrictions, Collective Punishments and Palestinian Resistance.*

**


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim is based on the same claim of self-determination that the Arab Palestinian claim is.  (Though the Jewish claim is the stronger claim).  Did you want to argue against the principle of self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to argue the basis for the boundaries and the claim that Israel is entitled to that land based upon fairytales.
> 
> You people may not believe that the establishment of the nation of Israel after WWII was based upon biblical texts, but I can assure you that the powers who granted Israel that land did.
> 
> So which is it?  Are those boundaries a fairytale or not?
Click to expand...


The only person discussing boundaries based on "fairy tales" is you.  The rest of us are discussing law.  The establishment of Israel as a State is based on the international legal principle of self-determination of peoples.  It is exactly the same principle from which the right of the Arab Palestinian claim derives.  It is exactly the same principle which gave us Czech Republic and Slovakia; Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia and Croatia and Montenegro and Kosovo and Slovenia and Macedonia; Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon; East Timor; South Sudan; Pakistan and India; and pretty much every state in Africa.  There is not a fairy tale in sight.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
Click to expand...


I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas. 

As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination. 

Do you disagree?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Occupation of Palestine - indeed all Jihadis occupying the land must go and leave the world a better place.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Impeach that two faced whore!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



He's not brown, he's whiter than most Israeli immigrants from Russia.
His grandparents used to slaughter Palestinian Jews long before Hitler was even born.

Only Arabs lack balls to take the responsibility.


----------



## rylah

By the way the Jihadis really want war, even after being warned by Netanyahu that they should keep quiet during the elections time...yeah unlike the rest of the middle east, Israelis actually have elections.

The message was sent clearly - and the Arab answer was firing rockets at Israel last night.

SUICIDAL SOCIOPATHS! 
And they are the ones to impeach the American president?


----------



## rylah

*Mushir Al-Farra admits their war is against Jews,*
*"Zionists" is only used to deceive the west*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> In November 2000, Israel murdered Faris Ouda for fighting back an Israeli tank. Faris was 15.



Such lame propaganda, he was shot for throwing stones at soldiers.
The picture with the tank is a mere staged act.

Faris Oudah's father said all his son wanted to do was to die in the name of a mosque.
Both the father and the son got what they asked for.

This is what happens when parents teach their children  that killing Jews is a highest form of religious war.

*"Palestinian" father tries to sacrifice his son for "Palestinian" Propaganda*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. Was this before or after she cursed the US in front of the children?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. An Arabian horse riding another Arabian horse?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*ODS Zurich Conference May 2014 Ghada Karmi*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *ODS Zurich Conference May 2014 Ghada Karmi*
> 
> **



As long as it's a Jewish country.
Israel is already the single best Arab country in the entire middle east, it just happens to be a Jewish state by coincidence 

What need is there to create another Arab state?
Just to erase the only country not run by Islam in the entire region, 
so that they dominate it all just to spite the non-Muslims?

 Even Karmi knows that a Jewish State is better than anything Islam and Arab rule can ever suggest.
Israel is one of the best countries by western standards, Arab and Muslim countries are by far among the worst.

Karmi is simply a bourgeoisie princess who wants to return her family to the past glory of their feudal rule.
 Nothing noble about such a cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

* Who needs life when there's honor*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Could be anywhere.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amani Al-Khatahtbeh: Daring to speak out on campus.*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Amani Al-Khatahtbeh: Daring to speak out on campus.*
> 
> **



So vague, where's the specific article?
The image that the Muslims try to depict in the US is 180 degrees opposite to the majority of the middle eastern Islam.

And Palestinians are among the most extremist Islamist societies among the radicals.
Ask Coyote she'll show You the data.


----------



## P F Tinmore

How Detroit's Rashida Tlaib will make history in Washington


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians in Gaza organize a sit-in to show support for the Palestinian parliamentarian, feminist and leftist leader Khalida Jarrar. Israel renewed the administrative detention Jarrar for the fourth time without charge or trial.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

How many Zionist soldiers does it take to subdue a 14 year old Palestinian?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Apartheid!*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim to the land is based upon a fairy tale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's claim is based on the same claim of self-determination that the Arab Palestinian claim is.  (Though the Jewish claim is the stronger claim).  Did you want to argue against the principle of self-determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want to argue the basis for the boundaries and the claim that Israel is entitled to that land based upon fairytales.
> 
> You people may not believe that the establishment of the nation of Israel after WWII was based upon biblical texts, but I can assure you that the powers who granted Israel that land did.
> 
> So which is it?  Are those boundaries a fairytale or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only person discussing boundaries based on "fairy tales" is you.  The rest of us are discussing law.  The establishment of Israel as a State is based on the international legal principle of self-determination of peoples.  It is exactly the same principle from which the right of the Arab Palestinian claim derives.  It is exactly the same principle which gave us Czech Republic and Slovakia; Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia and Croatia and Montenegro and Kosovo and Slovenia and Macedonia; Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon; East Timor; South Sudan; Pakistan and India; and pretty much every state in Africa.  There is not a fairy tale in sight.
Click to expand...

The authorities that established the boundaries did so based upon biblical claims.


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
Click to expand...


I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Was this before or after she cursed the US in front of the children?
Click to expand...

She did not curse the US.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Palestinian Youth Movement is running campaigns *against "countering violent extremism"*?!

Case in point,
and they still act surprised when their organizations get banned worldwide.

The whole Pali shabang has turned into a grotesque circus of Jihadi princesses who think identity politics are enough to cover for their open call to violence.


----------



## rylah

*Congress should be wary of Palestinian youth group (PYM)*

Is the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), a terrorist group designated by the State Department and Treasury, about to co-host an event on Capitol Hill? The answer is a bit blurry.

The Palestinian Youth Movement - USA (PYM-USA) is now collecting donations to co-host a “Palestine Advocacy Day” on Capitol Hill on May 1. The group calls itself “a transnational, independent, grassroots movement of young Palestinians,” but its activities should raise some questions about whether they may have any affiliation with the Palestinian-Marxist organization, which has been on the U.S. government’s list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations since 1997.

Here is what we know for sure: PYM-USA sponsors the “Ghassan Kanafani Scholarship,” named after a Palestinian writer who was also a leader of the PFLP.  In an April 8 email to its subscribers, PYM-USA explicitly endorsed Kanafani’s terrorist activities, writing, “Kanafani dedicated his life to the Palestinian struggle both through his work with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) as well as his writing. The two were never politically exclusive.”

PYM-USA then expressed support for violent, “resistance…whether by pen or gun.”


----------



## rylah

*"What part of Sharia Law is reasonable to Linda Sarsour?"*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Solidarity: Tough Questions & Ways Forward*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Solidarity: Tough Questions & Ways Forward*
> 
> **



What?!
Another "they harvest the organs of dead Arabs" blood libel.
What's next scholars on Holocaust denial or Bloody Matzos "experts"?

It's like they look for the most ridiculous antisemitic blood libels and wear them as a badge of nobility.

Frigging freak show.


----------



## rylah

*Women's March founder calls on Linda Sarsour, other activists to resign over anti-Semitism, anti-gay beliefs*

The Women’s March founder is urging the group’s leadership to resign over anti-Semitism and anti-gay rhetoric, just days after Linda Sarsour suggested Jewish people have dual loyalties.

Teresa Shook, a retired lawyer who was behind the nationwide women’s march following the election of President Trump, published a statement on Monday urging the current leaders of the movement to step aside.


*Jihadi radicals posting as "feminist activists" to promote Sharia*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *"What part of Sharia Law is reasonable to Linda Sarsour?"*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"What part of Sharia Law is reasonable to Linda Sarsour?"*
Click to expand...

Was this before or after she proposed to cut the sexual organs of those opposing Sharia?


----------



## rylah

*Linda Sarsour Caught Lying about Female Genital Mutilation in Islam*

Is it any wonder she's also responding with the most misogynistic verbal attacks on women who go against Sharia?


----------



## rylah

*The Palestinian suicide bomber "feminist" wing of the Islamic Jihad*


----------



## rylah

*Palestinians: Do you know the Palestinian National Movement 
originated with the Nazis?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian 'poetry'*


----------



## rylah

*Pro-Palestinian Students Hate Jews | Campus Unmasked*


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The international decision-making processes is responsible for the bad fruit.  What basis did it have for granting Israel any land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
Click to expand...

My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Pro-Palestinian Students Hate Jews | Campus Unmasked*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Pro-Palestinian Students Hate Jews | Campus Unmasked*
Click to expand...


Why is she being so deceptive?
Intifada is a call to murder plain and simple, and they openly use that term when calling for violence in the US.
Their leaders clearly and openly declare that their goal of intifada is to rid the land of Jews and establish a Caliphate. It's their national agenda:

Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022
From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate


----------



## Mindful

I wonder why no one discusses this:

*Hurling Insults at Each Other...*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
*

*Palestinians: While Abbas and Hamas were Hurling Insults at Each Other...*


The Action Group for Palestinians of Syria says that according to its research, there are at least 1,711 Palestinians being held in Syrian prisons.


The plight of the Palestinians in Syria is not difficult to fathom. What _is_ difficult to fathom is: Where are the international media when those Palestinians are being brutalized?


One can make up excuses for the apathy of the international community toward the atrocities the Palestinians are facing in Syria. However, the indifference of Palestinian leaders to the suffering of their own people is harder to justify.


As the reports about the Palestinian victims were emerging, Abbas was in Cairo socializing with famous Egyptian actors and actresses.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> I wonder why no one discusses this:
> 
> *Hurling Insults at Each Other...*
> *by Khaled Abu Toameh
> *
> 
> *Palestinians: While Abbas and Hamas were Hurling Insults at Each Other...*
> 
> 
> The Action Group for Palestinians of Syria says that according to its research, there are at least 1,711 Palestinians being held in Syrian prisons.
> 
> 
> The plight of the Palestinians in Syria is not difficult to fathom. What _is_ difficult to fathom is: Where are the international media when those Palestinians are being brutalized?
> 
> 
> One can make up excuses for the apathy of the international community toward the atrocities the Palestinians are facing in Syria. However, the indifference of Palestinian leaders to the suffering of their own people is harder to justify.
> 
> 
> As the reports about the Palestinian victims were emerging, Abbas was in Cairo socializing with famous Egyptian actors and actresses.


No Jews to blame...no interest, no political gain.

Palestinian militias are fighting on both the side of the Syrian government while their people elect Hamas which promises a Caliphate, exactly like the Islamic State that is at war with Syria.

They have lost any sense decades ago.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-determination of a peoples with a long history on that land.  Again, did you want to argue against that principle?
> 
> 
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
Click to expand...


Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland. 

But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland. 

It's a ridiculous position to hold.


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  I want to argue the basis of the boundaries.
> 
> They were not the only people with a long history of occupying those lands.
> 
> Do you want to argue against those people’s self determination?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland.
> 
> But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland.
> 
> It's a ridiculous position to hold.
Click to expand...

It is a position being argued by Hollie.


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland.
> 
> But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland.
> 
> It's a ridiculous position to hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a position being argued by Hollie.
Click to expand...


I wouldn’t be so quick to post your nonsense claims when you don’t understand.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not argue against any people's self-determination.  I believe all of them should have it if they seek it.  That most certainly includes BOTH the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinian people.  It also includes Catalonia, Western Sahara, Northern Cyprus, Tibet, Kurdistan and all the First Nations of the Americas.
> 
> As to where the boundaries should be set between those seeking self-determination and existing states, it should be in a place negotiated between that particular state and the government of the peoples seeking the self-determination.
> 
> Do you disagree?
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland.
> 
> But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland.
> 
> It's a ridiculous position to hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a position being argued by Hollie.
Click to expand...


Unlikely in the extreme that Hollie is arguing against the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland.


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the creation of Israel was based upon biblical claims. Do you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland.
> 
> But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland.
> 
> It's a ridiculous position to hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a position being argued by Hollie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlikely in the extreme that Hollie is arguing against the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland.
Click to expand...

She calls Genesis a fairytale.  Last time I checked Genesis is where the boundaries are listed, right?


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the terms "biblical claims" and "fairytales" are weaponized against the Jewish people for the purpose of diminishing and rejecting their legitimate historical claims.
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that if your own people believe it is a fairytale then the foundation for the belief that these are your ancient lands is built upon a fairytale and you have no valid claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand your point very well.  If Jews have nothing but "fairytales" then they have no claim to that land. As, I said, it is weaponization of terms and concepts for the explicit purpose of denying the Jewish people a claim to a homeland.
> 
> But in order to hold that weaponized opinion, one must entirely ignore or reject three thousand years of factual, recorded, evident history of the Jewish people in their homeland.
> 
> It's a ridiculous position to hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a position being argued by Hollie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlikely in the extreme that Hollie is arguing against the rights of the Jewish people to their own homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She calls Genesis a fairytale.  Last time I checked Genesis is where the boundaries are listed, right?
Click to expand...


I never called Genesis a fairytale. 

Consider that your false statements make you appear quite desperate.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Last time I checked Genesis is where the boundaries are listed, right?



The boundaries are listed in the legal documents of the time.  No mention whatsoever in those documents about Genesis or any other religious text to my knowledge.  

How do you think the boundaries of sovereign nations based on the self-determination of peoples should be established, if not through agreements, treaties and legal documents?


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> She calls Genesis a fairytale.



No, I don't believe she did.  She confirms that she did not.

However, even if she did, her personal religious beliefs have no bearing whatsoever on the historical and legal claim of the Jewish people to their homeland.


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I checked Genesis is where the boundaries are listed, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The boundaries are listed in the legal documents of the time.  No mention whatsoever in those documents about Genesis or any other religious text to my knowledge.
> 
> How do you think the boundaries of sovereign nations based on the self-determination of peoples should be established, if not through agreements, treaties and legal documents?
Click to expand...





Fairytale, right?


----------



## ding

Shusha said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> She calls Genesis a fairytale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't believe she did.  She confirms that she did not.
> 
> However, even if she did, her personal religious beliefs have no bearing whatsoever on the historical and legal claim of the Jewish people to their homeland.
Click to expand...

Then she is a liar.


----------



## ding

"...From our many talks over the past year, I knew that five factors dominated Truman’s thinking. From his youth, he had detested intolerance and discrimination. He had been deeply moved by the plight of the millions of homeless of World War II, and felt that alone among the homeless, the Jews had no homeland of their own to which they could return. He was, of course, horrified by the Holocaust and he denounced it vehemently, as, in the aftermath of the war, its full dimensions became clear. Also, he believed that the Balfour Declaration, issued by British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour in 1917, committed Great Britain and, by implication, the United States, which now shared a certain global responsibility with the British, to the creation of the Jewish state in Palestine. And finally, he was a student and believer in the Bible since his youth. From his reading of the Old Testament he felt the Jews derived a legitimate historical right to Palestine, and he sometimes cited such biblical lines as Deuteronomy 1:8: “Behold, I have given up the land before you; go in and take possession of the land which the Lord hath sworn unto your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.”..."

President Truman’s Decision to Recognize Israel


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> She calls Genesis a fairytale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't believe she did.  She confirms that she did not.
> 
> However, even if she did, her personal religious beliefs have no bearing whatsoever on the historical and legal claim of the Jewish people to their homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then she is a liar.
Click to expand...


Post the _*exact*_ citation.


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No taking snakes? Which edited / revised bibles are you worshipping?
> 
> Have you ever read the Ark tale?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Torah, Hollie.
> 
> But it is interesting that you accept the boundary for Israel described in Genesis as the basis for the nation of Israel.
> 
> Your beliefs are contradictory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rather telling that you use "..... it's allegorical" to sidestep the rather glaring inconsistencies in your new-fangled bibles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no inconsistencies in the Torah.
> 
> The allegorical account of the fall of man captures the truth that man is unique in the creation of space and time. A new thing.
> 
> They knew 6000 years ago what you never knew or understood; that the significance of man and the differences which distinguishes us from every other creature tells us that there is a universal truth which exists independent of man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot that “... it’s allegorical” refutes your all-knowing, all-seeing Bibles. “They” wrote the Bible’s in allegorical terms. Did you forget what you wrote?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Waiting for the *exact* citation.


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The account of creation in Genesis is a contradictory mess.
Click to expand...


Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.


----------



## ding

Hollie said:


> Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 239271
Click to expand...


You're simply spamming the thread with out of context cutting and pasting.

Obviously, you falsely attributed something to me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


>



Bless her.  Just like Abbas, she too helps create growing US & Arab country support for Israel.

Abbas’ Party Celebrates Bloody Past, Looks to Violent Future on Anniversary


----------



## ding

Hollie said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 239271
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply spamming the thread with out of context cutting and pasting.
> 
> Obviously, you falsely attributed something to me.
Click to expand...

You asked for the exact quotes and I provided the exact quotes. Then you asked that they be deleted. 

I provided all of the quotes so that the context could be seen.


----------



## Hollie

ding said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 239271
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply spamming the thread with out of context cutting and pasting.
> 
> Obviously, you falsely attributed something to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked for the exact quotes and I provided the exact quotes. Then you asked that they be deleted.
> 
> I provided all of the quotes so that the context could be seen.
Click to expand...


I never requested that any quotes be deleted.

Provide that _*exact*_ citation in addition the other *exact* citation you have failed to provide.

You're now at two fraudulent claims.


----------



## ding

Hollie said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the *exact* quote you falsely attributed.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 239271
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're simply spamming the thread with out of context cutting and pasting.
> 
> Obviously, you falsely attributed something to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked for the exact quotes and I provided the exact quotes. Then you asked that they be deleted.
> 
> I provided all of the quotes so that the context could be seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never requested that any quotes be deleted.
> 
> Provide that _*exact*_ citation in addition the other *exact* citation you have failed to provide.
> 
> You're now at two fraudulent claims.
Click to expand...

You captured the quotes in your replies.


----------



## Shusha

ding said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I checked Genesis is where the boundaries are listed, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The boundaries are listed in the legal documents of the time.  No mention whatsoever in those documents about Genesis or any other religious text to my knowledge.
> 
> How do you think the boundaries of sovereign nations based on the self-determination of peoples should be established, if not through agreements, treaties and legal documents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> View attachment 239267
> Fairytale, right?
Click to expand...


My personal religious beliefs also have no bearing on the discussion of Jewish historical and legal rights.  No one's personal religious beliefs do.  Nor do the religious beliefs of any collective.  

The rights of the Jewish people to self-determination in their homeland is the SAME as all people's rights to self-determination in their homelands: based upon historical and legal rights.  This whole weaponization of "fairytales" in order to deny the Jewish historical homeland is more than a bit silly.

I will ask you again, for you keep neglecting to answer the question:  How do you think the boundaries of sovereign nations based on self-determination of peoples should be established if not through agreements, treaties and legal documents?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*First mushroom farm in Palestine ends Israel's monopoly*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Reem Kassis on Palestinian Home Cooking*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



This should be re-titled.  Not sure if it should be re-titled, "Palestinians: How disconnected from reality are you?" or "Palestinians:  How hypocritical are you?"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Majority of them state they are not for the “ Two State Solution” Keep posting !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

"Family Honor" - 200 members of a Bedouin family leave home for fear of revenge over murder of a boy in the midst of a tribal war.


----------



## rylah

*A failed Jihadi prostitute waiting for a welfare cheque,*
*after another attempt to stab Jews.*


----------



## Mindful

Let’s face it: the palestinian Arabs are the last people in the world to cry about cultural appropriation. heck, they even stole the label “Palestinian” from the Jews!


----------



## Mindful

*Torture of Women*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
January 15, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*The UN, the "State of Palestine" and the Torture of Women*




This is the kind of story that the "State of Palestine" does not intend to raise during its chairmanship of the largest bloc of developing countries at the UN. It seems that, from the point of view of the Palestinian Authority leadership, Jbara's ordeal does not fall within the category of human rights.


Jbara's story has barely attracted the attention of the international mainstream media. As far as many foreign journalists covering the Middle East are concerned, a Palestinian woman complaining about torture in a Palestinian prison is not newsworthy. Had she been detained by Israel, Jbara would have most likely made it to the front pages of the world's leading newspapers and magazines in a matter of minutes.


The PA regularly complains about human rights violations of Palestinians held in Israeli prison for security-related offenses. But when the PA's own security forces detain and torture a mother of three, Palestinian leaders are found elsewhere -- like at the helm of a UN bloc.

The Palestinian Authority's recent arrest and torture of a Palestinian mother of three is the kind of story that the "State of Palestine" does not intend to raise during its chairmanship of the largest bloc of developing countries at the UN. Pictured: Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas addresses the UN General Assembly on September 27, 2018 in New York City. (Photo by Stephanie Keith/Getty Images)
A Palestinian mother of three has accused the Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces of torturing her and threatening to rape her during the two months she was held in a PA prison in the West Bank.

The accusation by the woman, Suha Jbara, 31, came on the eve of PA President Mahmoud Abbas's visit to New York, where he is scheduled to assume the chairmanship of the largest bloc of developing countries in the United Nations, known as the "Group of 77 and China."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

No need to overdo it, Timore. 

They're Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

“Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at #Cannes2018 . Israeli soldiers shot and killed 59 Palestinians in mass protests on the Gaza border on Monday.” -AP Entertainment

(Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP)


----------



## Mindful

Pretty girl.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  PalestineToday
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This poster ("Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948") is a trinket from an era, and in a time, → long since past when there were those that wish to be or do something but lacks the lack the understanding, knowledge, skills, and abilities to actually be a patriotic nation builder.

Back in the day (1948) being a Harley Motorcycle Rider, wearing a black leather jacket and boots was synonymous with being a glamorous tough scary, tough guy.

BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.  The Arab Palestinian does NOT present such a picture.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian is best described as a portrait of cowardice and sociopaths.  The Arab Palestinian is one of those that would attack soft target noncombatants resulting in the death of the unarmed; deliberately including children.



P F Tinmore said:


> Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948


*(COMMENT)*

In 1948, the Jewish Agency and later the Provisional Government of Israel were not involving the practice of gaining political control over other countries and occupying them with settlers.  This is often called colonialism but in reality, it is more an "a means to an end" for the accomplishment of capitalist expansion.

•  The first stage had two basic objectives:
◇  Monopolizing the trade of essential items of maufacture goods. 
◇  Plunder natural resources for the redistribution.​•  Second, the political conquest of the colony enabled:
◇  Domination of critical trade routes. 
◇  Control of specific markets.
◇  Maintain the means of both import and export Markets at Port.
◇  The seizure of surplus goods for resale in other markets.​
As it relates to the territory (formerly under the mandate) colonialism strives to attain:  political, economic, intellectual property in such a way that would make it profitable for the colonial organization.   This is NOT the case with Israel.  The primary import and export commodity exchanges are limited primarily OUTSIDE the entire Region

•  Import partners partners include the United States, China, Germany and Belgium,
•  Export partners include the United States and Hong Kong.​
The general reasoning used by the various Pro-Palestinian Movement is the liberal interpretation ICRC Article 49(6), Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 7(1d) of the Rome Statues.

•  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. (GCIV)
•  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;(RS-ICC)​
The pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Movements tend to focus on one or two similarities to colonialism.  The most visualized characteristic used is the movement of people.  But that is just one of many characteristics that constitute "colonialism."  And it is a poor interpretation of the law at best.

There was no colonial power that was controlling the import and export platforms in Israel after independence; nor was there platform or lootings in the time territory under a mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> “Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at #Cannes2018 . Israeli soldiers shot and killed 59 Palestinians in mass protests on the Gaza border on Monday.” -AP Entertainment
> 
> (Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP)



She objects to “ peaceful protesters “ being shot ?  Keep posting !!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  PalestineToday
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This poster ("Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948") is a trinket from an era, and in a time, → long since past when there were those that wish to be or do something but lacks the lack the understanding, knowledge, skills, and abilities to actually be a patriotic nation builder.
> 
> Back in the day (1948) being a Harley Motorcycle Rider, wearing a black leather jacket and boots was synonymous with being a glamorous tough scary, tough guy.
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.  The Arab Palestinian does NOT present such a picture.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian is best described as a portrait of cowardice and sociopaths.  The Arab Palestinian is one of those that would attack soft target noncombatants resulting in the death of the unarmed; deliberately including children.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, the Jewish Agency and later the Provisional Government of Israel were not involving the practice of gaining political control over other countries and occupying them with settlers.  This is often called colonialism but in reality, it is more an "a means to an end" for the accomplishment of capitalist expansion.
> 
> •  The first stage had two basic objectives:
> ◇  Monopolizing the trade of essential items of maufacture goods.
> ◇  Plunder natural resources for the redistribution.​•  Second, the political conquest of the colony enabled:
> ◇  Domination of critical trade routes.
> ◇  Control of specific markets.
> ◇  Maintain the means of both import and export Markets at Port.
> ◇  The seizure of surplus goods for resale in other markets.​
> As it relates to the territory (formerly under the mandate) colonialism strives to attain:  political, economic, intellectual property in such a way that would make it profitable for the colonial organization.   This is NOT the case with Israel.  The primary import and export commodity exchanges are limited primarily OUTSIDE the entire Region
> 
> •  Import partners partners include the United States, China, Germany and Belgium,
> •  Export partners include the United States and Hong Kong.​
> The general reasoning used by the various Pro-Palestinian Movement is the liberal interpretation ICRC Article 49(6), Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 7(1d) of the Rome Statues.
> 
> •  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. (GCIV)
> •  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;(RS-ICC)​
> The pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Movements tend to focus on one or two similarities to colonialism.  The most visualized characteristic used is the movement of people.  But that is just one of many characteristics that constitute "colonialism."  And it is a poor interpretation of the law at best.
> 
> There was no colonial power that was controlling the import and export platforms in Israel after independence; nor was there platform or lootings in the time territory under a mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.


Indeed, the Palestinians (Basically an unarmed civilian population.) have been facing down well armed militaries for a hundred years. They have not surrendered yet and I don't see that happening any time soon. So far, Israel has won nothing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,

_Is someone holding a position that Israel_ is not allowed to defend its border?



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at #Cannes2018 . Israeli soldiers shot and killed 59 Palestinians in mass protests on the Gaza border on Monday.” -AP Entertainment
> 
> (Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She objects to “ peaceful protesters “ being shot ?  Keep posting !!
Click to expand...

*(QUESTION)*

Was there an attack on Gaza?

_My understanding was that no attack was made, that the IDF/Border Police merely were defending the border..._  IS that incorrect? 

_I also understand that on 14 May '18 approximately 59 or 60 protesters/rioters were killed at 12 different locations along the border when HAMAS militants attempted to penetrate the border fensing._  IS that correct?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  PalestineToday
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This poster ("Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948") is a trinket from an era, and in a time, → long since past when there were those that wish to be or do something but lacks the lack the understanding, knowledge, skills, and abilities to actually be a patriotic nation builder.
> 
> Back in the day (1948) being a Harley Motorcycle Rider, wearing a black leather jacket and boots was synonymous with being a glamorous tough scary, tough guy.
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.  The Arab Palestinian does NOT present such a picture.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian is best described as a portrait of cowardice and sociopaths.  The Arab Palestinian is one of those that would attack soft target noncombatants resulting in the death of the unarmed; deliberately including children.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, the Jewish Agency and later the Provisional Government of Israel were not involving the practice of gaining political control over other countries and occupying them with settlers.  This is often called colonialism but in reality, it is more an "a means to an end" for the accomplishment of capitalist expansion.
> 
> •  The first stage had two basic objectives:
> ◇  Monopolizing the trade of essential items of maufacture goods.
> ◇  Plunder natural resources for the redistribution.​•  Second, the political conquest of the colony enabled:
> ◇  Domination of critical trade routes.
> ◇  Control of specific markets.
> ◇  Maintain the means of both import and export Markets at Port.
> ◇  The seizure of surplus goods for resale in other markets.​
> As it relates to the territory (formerly under the mandate) colonialism strives to attain:  political, economic, intellectual property in such a way that would make it profitable for the colonial organization.   This is NOT the case with Israel.  The primary import and export commodity exchanges are limited primarily OUTSIDE the entire Region
> 
> •  Import partners partners include the United States, China, Germany and Belgium,
> •  Export partners include the United States and Hong Kong.​
> The general reasoning used by the various Pro-Palestinian Movement is the liberal interpretation ICRC Article 49(6), Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 7(1d) of the Rome Statues.
> 
> •  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. (GCIV)
> •  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;(RS-ICC)​
> The pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Movements tend to focus on one or two similarities to colonialism.  The most visualized characteristic used is the movement of people.  But that is just one of many characteristics that constitute "colonialism."  And it is a poor interpretation of the law at best.
> 
> There was no colonial power that was controlling the import and export platforms in Israel after independence; nor was there platform or lootings in the time territory under a mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians (Basically an unarmed civilian population.) have been facing down well armed militaries for a hundred years. They have not surrendered yet and I don't see that happening any time soon. So far, Israel has won nothing.
Click to expand...


Israel has won nothing? Keep talking to yourself. Israel exists to the dismay of the Arabs whose goal was their destruction. What have the “ Palestinians” won? Nothing and they never will.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, did you think I was implying that the Arab Palestinians were patriotic?  NOT SO!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians (Basically an unarmed civilian population.) have been facing down well armed militaries for a hundred years. They have not surrendered yet and I don't see that happening any time soon. So far, Israel has won nothing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I don't think the Arab Palestinians, especially those from the Gaza Strip, have an ounce of courage among them...  Certainly, nothing to be proud of.  

The Arab Palestinians do everything they can to incite violence --- and when they do cross the line and Israel responds, the very first thing we see is the Arab Palestinians run like the chickens they are to the UNHRC and the Media to protest the Israel response to the incited violence.

Israel was not trying to win anything.  They did not even cross the border...   The responded to the threat, in the manner in which the Arab Palestinians wanted them to respond.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> _Is someone holding a position that Israel_ is not allowed to defend its border?
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at #Cannes2018 . Israeli soldiers shot and killed 59 Palestinians in mass protests on the Gaza border on Monday.” -AP Entertainment
> 
> (Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She objects to “ peaceful protesters “ being shot ?  Keep posting !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Was there an attack on Gaza?
> 
> _My understanding was that no attack was made, that the IDF/Border Police merely were defending the border..._  IS that incorrect?
> 
> _I also understand that on 14 May '18 approximately 59 or 60 protesters/rioters were killed at 12 different locations along the border when HAMAS militants attempted to penetrate the border fensing._  IS that correct?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> _Is someone holding a position that Israel_ is not allowed to defend its border?


Your clunker of the day. Israel has no borders. Then you base your conclusions on false premise.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  PalestineToday
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This poster ("Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948") is a trinket from an era, and in a time, → long since past when there were those that wish to be or do something but lacks the lack the understanding, knowledge, skills, and abilities to actually be a patriotic nation builder.
> 
> Back in the day (1948) being a Harley Motorcycle Rider, wearing a black leather jacket and boots was synonymous with being a glamorous tough scary, tough guy.
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.  The Arab Palestinian does NOT present such a picture.  Instead, the Arab Palestinian is best described as a portrait of cowardice and sociopaths.  The Arab Palestinian is one of those that would attack soft target noncombatants resulting in the death of the unarmed; deliberately including children.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Resisting Settler Colonialism Since 1948
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, the Jewish Agency and later the Provisional Government of Israel were not involving the practice of gaining political control over other countries and occupying them with settlers.  This is often called colonialism but in reality, it is more an "a means to an end" for the accomplishment of capitalist expansion.
> 
> •  The first stage had two basic objectives:
> ◇  Monopolizing the trade of essential items of maufacture goods.
> ◇  Plunder natural resources for the redistribution.​•  Second, the political conquest of the colony enabled:
> ◇  Domination of critical trade routes.
> ◇  Control of specific markets.
> ◇  Maintain the means of both import and export Markets at Port.
> ◇  The seizure of surplus goods for resale in other markets.​
> As it relates to the territory (formerly under the mandate) colonialism strives to attain:  political, economic, intellectual property in such a way that would make it profitable for the colonial organization.   This is NOT the case with Israel.  The primary import and export commodity exchanges are limited primarily OUTSIDE the entire Region
> 
> •  Import partners partners include the United States, China, Germany and Belgium,
> •  Export partners include the United States and Hong Kong.​
> The general reasoning used by the various Pro-Palestinian Movement is the liberal interpretation ICRC Article 49(6), Fourth Geneva Convention and Article 7(1d) of the Rome Statues.
> 
> •  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. (GCIV)
> •  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;(RS-ICC)​
> The pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Movements tend to focus on one or two similarities to colonialism.  The most visualized characteristic used is the movement of people.  But that is just one of many characteristics that constitute "colonialism."  And it is a poor interpretation of the law at best.
> 
> There was no colonial power that was controlling the import and export platforms in Israel after independence; nor was there platform or lootings in the time territory under a mandate.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> BEING a tough and hard, with an indomitable spirit that vigorously supports their country and is one that faces their opponent → charging headlong into adversity and still emerges ready to enter the fray again → is one type of patriot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the Palestinians (Basically an unarmed civilian population.) have been facing down well armed militaries for a hundred years. They have not surrendered yet and I don't see that happening any time soon. So far, Israel has won nothing.
Click to expand...


Sure sure, unarmed and civilian, especially when coming to collect "protection".
Now You talk about surrender and then You'll tell us they didn't even participate in any war.

The simple truth is they have nothing to surrender really, the little they've managed to get for their imaginary country is an act of great generosity by the Israelis, and they managed to make that into a dump as well.

So much for the nostalgia of Your bourgeoisie feudal lords.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Rushdi Shawa, mayor of Gaza City (1938-1951), and his wife, Shafiqa Husseini and their children, 1940

Source: Threads of Identity, by Widad Kamel Kawar


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel's military attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



It's like You're looking for the most famously debunked Pallywood propaganda videos,
just to show the pathology of the Jihadi lies.

The most grotesque part is the Pali idiots themselves release these videos to make sure everyone knows they fake it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like You're looking for the most famously debunked Pallywood propaganda videos,
> just to show the pathology of the Jihadi lies.
> 
> The most grotesque part is the Pali idiots themselves release these videos to make sure everyone knows they fake it.
Click to expand...


He's certainly pushing an insatiable agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Arabic and English is after 2 minuets


----------



## Likkmee

The best thing for Palestine to do is make Baseball the national sport and teach it in all schools to both genders( yes THEY are smart enough to know there are only two).
As good as they are at throwing rocks all they need is a batting technique and they'd be champs of the world and all would be wealthy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Likkmee said:


> The best thing for Palestine to do is make Baseball the national sport and teach it in all schools to both genders( yes THEY are smart enough to know there are only two).
> As good as they are at throwing rocks all they need is a batting technique and they'd be champs of the world and all would be wealthy.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Likkmee said:


> The best thing for Palestine to do is make Baseball the national sport and teach it in all schools to both genders( yes THEY are smart enough to know there are only two).
> As good as they are at throwing rocks all they need is a batting technique and they'd be champs of the world and all would be wealthy.



Just think; if they lost heads would Roll !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

New Sewage System in Zaytoun, Gaza Improves Health & Environment - Anera

With funding from Islamic Relief USA, Anera installed sewage and water infrastructure in Zaytoun, Gaza to end years of flooding as well as connect homes to water for the first time.


----------



## Likkmee

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Likkmee said:
> 
> 
> 
> The best thing for Palestine to do is make Baseball the national sport and teach it in all schools to both genders( yes THEY are smart enough to know there are only two).
> As good as they are at throwing rocks all they need is a batting technique and they'd be champs of the world and all would be wealthy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just think; if they lost heads would Roll !!!
Click to expand...

It's easier to hit a ball with a bat than a jugular with a sword.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Likkmee said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Likkmee said:
> 
> 
> 
> The best thing for Palestine to do is make Baseball the national sport and teach it in all schools to both genders( yes THEY are smart enough to know there are only two).
> As good as they are at throwing rocks all they need is a batting technique and they'd be champs of the world and all would be wealthy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just think; if they lost heads would Roll !!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's easier to hit a ball with a bat than a jugular with a sword.
Click to expand...


It’s in their blood( No Pun) and DNA to kill . Muslim Anti Semitism has been around since Mohammed


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Nice synagogue. 
Did You know that under Sharia Jews are only allowed to build synagogues if they are lower than the Muslim houses?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Rushdi Shawa, mayor of Gaza City (1938-1951), and his wife, Shafiqa Husseini and their children, 1940
> 
> Source: Threads of Identity, by Widad Kamel Kawar



The feudal lords of the Husseini clan.
Is this what You socialists strive for, return to aristocratic feudalism?


----------



## Mindful

Palestinians accuse their own security services of ‘civil rights’ abuses

Witnesses protest undercover PA anti-drug unit storming bars, restaurants in Ramallah last week searching for prohibited substances: 'They took the liberty of openly beating, kicking people.'



PA security forces (Photo: AP

Speaking to The Media Line under the condition of anonymity, the witness added: “They are criminals using their titles and authority to conduct acts of police brutality.”

The witness claimed that after violently removing people from the venues, the undercover officers led them into the street and adjacent parking lots where they “took the liberty of openly beating and kicking the people they were arresting in front of other patrons.”

Palestinians accuse their own security services of ‘civil rights’ abuses


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

Do tell me about the Mamlūks, Tinmore.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*Stereotyping of Jews*
*by Bassam Tawil
January 19, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*Palestinians' Anti-Semitic Stereotyping of Jews*



Abbas and the Palestinian leadership are clearly trying to drag Israel into a religious conflict with all Muslims, not only Palestinians. The Temple Mount has become their favorite platform for disseminating blood libels....


If anyone is defiling the sanctity of the holy site, it is Abbas and his representatives in the West Bank.


Were Israel to stop a Palestinian from entering a holy site because of his clothing, the foreign reporters based in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv would have rushed to the scene to interview the man and tell the world that Israel is violating freedom of worship. This is yet another example of how the media gives the Palestinians a pass and allows them to continue their vicious incitement against Israel.

Palestinians are continuing to use the Temple Mount, in Arabic known as the Haram al-Sharif, in Jerusalem, as a platform for incitement against Israel in general and Jews in particular.

This incitement, which began after Jewish tourists were permitted to resume their visits to the holy site in 2014, has since taken various forms. The Jewish visits to the holy site had been suspended for several years during the Second Intifada uprising, which erupted in September 2000.

Since 2014, the Palestinian Authority leadership, including President Mahmoud Abbas, have been waging an unprecedented wave of incitement against Israel and Jews to protest visits to the Temple Mount.

In 2015, Abbas announced that the Palestinians "won't allow Jews with their filthy feet to defile our Al-Aqsa Mosque."

He went on to praise Palestinians who were ready to sacrifice their lives in order to stop Jews from visiting the holy site: "We bless every drop of blood that has been spilled for Allah and Jerusalem. Every martyr (Shahid) will reach Paradise, and everyone wounded will be rewarded by Allah."


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Mindful, et al,

I am seldom surprised when the Arab Palestinians are accused of incitement to violence.  The Arab Palestinians know that it is against the Covenant on  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights to advocate religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.  But not only have they ignored this understanding but have amplified its violation by using the holy ground to disseminated this hatred.



Mindful said:


> In 2015, Abbas announced that the Palestinians "won't allow Jews with their filthy feet to defile our Al-Aqsa Mosque."
> 
> He went on to praise Palestinians who were ready to sacrifice their lives in order to stop Jews from visiting the holy site: "We bless every drop of blood that has been spilled for Allah and Jerusalem. Every martyr (Shahid) will reach Paradise, and everyone wounded will be rewarded by Allah."


*(COMMENT)*

_Haram esh-Sharif_ (Temple Mount) is often defiled, not by the Jewish People, but by the Arab Palestinians.  And these acts of corruption on the purity or perfection of the Temple Mount is actually encouraged by the Arab Palestinian Leadership.

This is nothing much that can be done in a radicalized Islamic atmosphere condoned by the Arab League membership that permits the blasphemy perpetrated by the Arab Palestinians on the site is → the third holiest in Islam.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

The state of Israel is of the view that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories.

As those territories had previously been occupied by Jordan, how can they be Palestinian land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> The state of Israel is of the view that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories.
> 
> As those territories had previously been occupied by Jordan, how can they be Palestinian land?


You have to follow it step by step from the beginning.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The state of Israel is of the view that only territories captured in war from "an established and recognized sovereign" are considered occupied territories.
> 
> As those territories had previously been occupied by Jordan, how can they be Palestinian land?
> 
> 
> 
> You have to follow it step by step from the beginning.
Click to expand...


You're telling _me? _


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian professor sues SF State for breach of contract, discrimination*

Last week, lawyers for Professor Rabab Abdulhadi filed suit in US District Court against San Francisco State University (SFSU) and top administrators including President Leslie Wong, seeking a permanent court judgment to protect the Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diasporas (AMED) program and protect the civil rights and freedom of speech of AMED director Professor Rabab Abdulhadi PhD and her students.

SFSU hired Dr. Abdulhadi in 2006 with a written promise to build a real program. “For ten years, they have refused contractually agreed support for AMED Studies. They broke their commitment to me and to the AMED community, but we built the program anyway,” said Dr. Abdulhadi. “They’ve been trying to dismantle it and prevent its institutionalization ever since. Now they’re trying to destroy it,” said Mark Kleiman, one of the lawyers for Dr. Abdulhadi.

One of Dr. Abdulhadi’s lawyers, Behnam (Ben) Gharagozli said, “The lawsuit seeks to stop the Israel Lobby’s excessive influence at SFSU and prevent anti-Palestinian organizations from continuing their proxy war against the AMED program and Dr. Abdulhadi.”

Palestinian professor sues SF State for breach of contract, discrimination


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian professor sues SF State for breach of contract, discrimination*
> 
> Last week, lawyers for Professor Rabab Abdulhadi filed suit in US District Court against San Francisco State University (SFSU) and top administrators including President Leslie Wong, seeking a permanent court judgment to protect the Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diasporas (AMED) program and protect the civil rights and freedom of speech of AMED director Professor Rabab Abdulhadi PhD and her students.
> 
> SFSU hired Dr. Abdulhadi in 2006 with a written promise to build a real program. “For ten years, they have refused contractually agreed support for AMED Studies. They broke their commitment to me and to the AMED community, but we built the program anyway,” said Dr. Abdulhadi. “They’ve been trying to dismantle it and prevent its institutionalization ever since. Now they’re trying to destroy it,” said Mark Kleiman, one of the lawyers for Dr. Abdulhadi.
> 
> One of Dr. Abdulhadi’s lawyers, Behnam (Ben) Gharagozli said, “The lawsuit seeks to stop the Israel Lobby’s excessive influence at SFSU and prevent anti-Palestinian organizations from continuing their proxy war against the AMED program and Dr. Abdulhadi.”
> 
> Palestinian professor sues SF State for breach of contract, discrimination


Only the Jihadi Neanderthals would pretend that after weaving knives
and threatening to stab and behead people on campus, were they the victims.

Truly a despicable bunch who deserve prison, not a classroom.

*STOP CALLING FOR MURDER OF STUDENTS WHO SUPPORT ISRAEL!*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Catholic Focus: Palestinian Liberation Theology ft. Dr. Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Catholic Focus: Palestinian Liberation Theology ft. Dr. Naim Ateek*
> 
> **


It's no secret that Christian theology is centered around hate of Jews.

No wonder all such propaganda doesn't ever mention the waves of Arab pogroms against Ottoman Jews prior to Zionism, which directly lead to establishment of their independent country as a mechanism for self defense.


*Palestinian Loss of Land: The Myth of the 4 Maps*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*DEBRIEF | A candid conversation with Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun*

**


----------



## rylah

*The Myth of the 4 Maps*

**


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> *The Myth of the 4 Maps*
> 
> **



Good one.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Catholic Focus: Palestinian Liberation Theology ft. Dr. Naim Ateek*
> 
> **



Wow.  Not much actual theology in that tiresome video.  Except for the precious little re-working of the 2000 year old libel that Jews killed JC.  Now its the Romans who killed him BUT since the Romans were occupiers and oppressors and now the Jews are occupiers and oppressors -- its still the Jews who are to blame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Alice Rothchild and a Just Peace in Palestine*

**


----------



## Mindful

Tinman;

What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?

_Can hardly wait for this.
_
Keep it humble.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rothchild:Voices Across the Divide in Portland Maine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.


The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rev. Dr. William J. Barber II on Palestine*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.
Click to expand...


Arabs already control more than 80% of the land, they just don't want the Jews to have any.
Nothing just about that.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.
Click to expand...


You don't do discussion, do you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't do discussion, do you?
Click to expand...

Sure I do. When have the Palestinians ever been offered anything that did not include partition?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Mindful, et al,

Yes, this is the standard political position which follows the idea that the land of Palestine "is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations:"

◈  Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

◈  Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit. 
*------------------------------ OR PUT ANOTHER WAY ------------------------------*​◈  Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

◈  Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​


P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't do discussion, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do. When have the Palestinians ever been offered anything that did not include partition?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

With that kind of thinking _(the rejection of "Partition")_ and under that constraint, there is no solution except the deconstruction of the Jewish National Home and the institution of a One-State Solution.  This places the future of the Jewish People in the hands of the majority (Arab Palestinians) which can then use the color of law to legally persecute the Jewish People.

Without regard to any promise of peace and justice by the Arab Palestinians, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever place the protection of the Jewish National Home in their hands.

As long as the Arab Palestinian threat against the Jewish National Home is still promoted by both clerics and politicians, so long will Israel _(it appears)_ maintain its current course of action. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Mindful, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the standard political position which follows the idea that the land of Palestine "is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations:"
> 
> ◈  Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> 
> ◈  Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.
> *------------------------------ OR PUT ANOTHER WAY ------------------------------*​◈  Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> ◈  Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinman;
> 
> What, in your humble opinion is the reason the Pals turned down three offers of statehood?
> 
> _Can hardly wait for this.
> _
> Keep it humble.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have never been "offered" statehood. They turn down "offers" to give away most of their country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't do discussion, do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure I do. When have the Palestinians ever been offered anything that did not include partition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With that kind of thinking _(the rejection of "Partition")_ and under that constraint, there is no solution except the deconstruction of the Jewish National Home and the institution of a One-State Solution.  This places the future of the Jewish People in the hands of the majority (Arab Palestinians) which can then use the color of law to legally persecute the Jewish People.
> 
> Without regard to any promise of peace and justice by the Arab Palestinians, it is not likely that the Israelis will ever place the protection of the Jewish National Home in their hands.
> 
> As long as the Arab Palestinian threat against the Jewish National Home is still promoted by both clerics and politicians, so long will Israel _(it appears)_ maintain its current course of action.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.


Indeed, that is Palestinian territory defined by international borders. And, the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

No such thing.  There has never been a Palestinian Territory defined by International Borders.  I know you keep saying that, but it is simply NO TRUE.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is Palestinian territory defined by international borders. And, the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

•  Part I Preliminary - Palestine Order In Council (1922)  • 

◈  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."


The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
◈  Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E. • Report - *Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of** Palestine and Trans-Jordan** For the Year 1932*
 
 On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.

 The boundaries are described as follows:--


_South._--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.

_East._--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.

_North._--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.

_West._--The Mediterranean Sea.
What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.  While they like to take that liberty, it is simply NOT TRUE.  As pointed out in the 

*  A05  Mavrommatis Jerusalem Concessions *
*




 Judgment of 26 March 1925 (including the text of the declaration of M. Altamira) 
	
 *
AKA:  Judgement #5  
	

* Permanent Court of International Justice* 
*



Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) *



 ​
The Government of Palestine = HM Government and NOT the Palestinians People. 

Don't let the name "Palestine" fool you.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No such thing.  There has never been a Palestinian Territory defined by International Borders.  I know you keep saying that, but it is simply NO TRUE.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is Palestinian territory defined by international borders. And, the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  Part I Preliminary - Palestine Order In Council (1922)  •
> 
> ◈  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> ◈  Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E. • Report - *Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan For the Year 1932*
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> 
> The boundaries are described as follows:--
> 
> 
> _South._--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.
> 
> _East._--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.
> 
> _North._--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.
> 
> _West._--The Mediterranean Sea.
> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.  While they like to take that liberty, it is simply NOT TRUE.  As pointed out in the
> 
> *  A05  Mavrommatis Jerusalem Concessions *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Judgment of 26 March 1925 (including the text of the declaration of M. Altamira)
> 
> *
> AKA:  Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) *
> 
> View attachment 241923​
> The Government of Palestine = HM Government and NOT the Palestinians People.
> 
> Don't let the name "Palestine" fool you.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Government of Palestine = HM Government and NOT the Palestinians People.


Not so, they were stated as two different things.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> No such thing.  There has never been a Palestinian Territory defined by International Borders.  I know you keep saying that, but it is simply NO TRUE.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, that is Palestinian territory defined by international borders. And, the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  Part I Preliminary - Palestine Order In Council (1922)  •
> 
> ◈  This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."
> 
> 
> The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.
> ◈  Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E. • Report - *Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Palestine and Trans-Jordan For the Year 1932*
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.
> 
> The boundaries are described as follows:--
> 
> 
> _South._--From a point west of Rafa on the Mediterranean to a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba.
> 
> _East._--From a point two miles west of Aqaba in the Gulf of Aqaba up the centre of the Wadi Araba, the Dead Sea, and the River Jordan, to the junction of the latter with the River Yarmuk, thence up the centre of the River Yarmuk to the Syrian frontier.
> 
> _North._--The northern boundary was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Stated briefly, the boundary runs from Ras el Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to Metulla and across the upper Jordan valley to Banias, thence to Jisr Banat Yaqub, thence along the Jordan to the Lake of Tiberias on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line.
> 
> _West._--The Mediterranean Sea.
> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.  While they like to take that liberty, it is simply NOT TRUE.  As pointed out in the
> 
> *  A05  Mavrommatis Jerusalem Concessions *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Judgment of 26 March 1925 (including the text of the declaration of M. Altamira)
> 
> *
> AKA:  Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Series A: Collection of Judgments (1923-1930) *
> 
> View attachment 241923​
> The Government of Palestine = HM Government and NOT the Palestinians People.
> 
> Don't let the name "Palestine" fool you.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.


I have links. What do you have?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ethnic cleansing through the back door.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel just ‘lost Cronkite’ — the struggle for Palestinian rights at ‘The New York Times’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I gave you three reference links.  All of which are official, not external interpretations.



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> I have links. What do you have?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I would be very interestest in an official interpretation whereas any International Demarcation indicates:

◈  A Palestinian Sovereign Territory on one side.
◈  Any Sovereign Territory on the other.​
This would be especially interesting if you could cite an Official Demarcation with the West Bank Sovereignty on one side and different sovereignty on the other.

In fact, I would be very interested if you could cite any official demarcation _(including an Armistice Line or any other territorial agreement)_ wherein any sovereignty actually recognizes a specific boundary where the Arab Palestine People have true sovereignty one any boundary.

No matter who you would consider as President of Palestine, I would be very interested in any information you would have on the length and breadth of that sovereignty.   I suspect you would even have a problem with that for anything prior to 29 November 2012 _(A/RES/67/19 Palestine non-member Observer State 4 DEC 2012)_.

For your consideration, I would point you to the UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs Memorandum:

◈  Subject:  Issues related to General Assembly resolution 67/19 on the Status of Palestine in the United Nations, dated 11 December 2012.​
Among other things that the UN says about the Status is:

[

​
It is my contention that, as the UN Undersecretary explains:

◈  During the period:  15 December 1988 (UN Resolution 43/177) to 29 November 2012 the designation of Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization."

◈  After the 29 November 2012:  "Palestine" is recognized as a State _(State of Palestine)_ with the "Head of State as His Excellency Mr Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine."​
I hope this, with the Previous links I have referenced, helps explain my position.  Now I realize that you do not recognize any of this.  As in the past, I have in our various conversations, discussed this and more, with many more "LINKs."  But, I would like to make reference to one more salient point in the UN Memo:
​


​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I gave you three reference links.  All of which are official, not external interpretations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> I have links. What do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would be very interestest in an official interpretation whereas any International Demarcation indicates:
> 
> ◈  A Palestinian Sovereign Territory on one side.
> ◈  Any Sovereign Territory on the other.​
> This would be especially interesting if you could cite an Official Demarcation with the West Bank Sovereignty on one side and different sovereignty on the other.
> 
> In fact, I would be very interested if you could cite any official demarcation _(including an Armistice Line or any other territorial agreement)_ wherein any sovereignty actually recognizes a specific boundary where the Arab Palestine People have true sovereignty one any boundary.
> 
> No matter who you would consider as President of Palestine, I would be very interested in any information you would have on the length and breadth of that sovereignty.   I suspect you would even have a problem with that for anything prior to 29 November 2012 _(A/RES/67/19 Palestine non-member Observer State 4 DEC 2012)_.
> 
> For your consideration, I would point you to the UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs Memorandum:
> 
> ◈  Subject:  Issues related to General Assembly resolution 67/19 on the Status of Palestine in the United Nations, dated 11 December 2012.​
> Among other things that the UN says about the Status is:
> 
> [View attachment 241992​
> It is my contention that, as the UN Undersecretary explains:
> 
> ◈  During the period:  15 December 1988 (UN Resolution 43/177) to 29 November 2012 the designation of Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization."
> 
> ◈  After the 29 November 2012:  "Palestine" is recognized as a State _(State of Palestine)_ with the "Head of State as His Excellency Mr Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine."​
> I hope this, with the Previous links I have referenced, helps explain my position.  Now I realize that you do not recognize any of this.  As in the past, I have in our various conversations, discussed this and more, with many more "LINKs."  But, I would like to make reference to one more salient point in the UN Memo:
> ​View attachment 241993
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is no legal requirement for a two state solution.

There are no borders inside Palestine's international borders defining territory.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I gave you three reference links.  All of which are official, not external interpretations.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you claim as "Palestinian territory defined by international borders" is not to be construed as some sort of legacy to the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> I have links. What do you have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would be very interestest in an official interpretation whereas any International Demarcation indicates:
> 
> ◈  A Palestinian Sovereign Territory on one side.
> ◈  Any Sovereign Territory on the other.​
> This would be especially interesting if you could cite an Official Demarcation with the West Bank Sovereignty on one side and different sovereignty on the other.
> 
> In fact, I would be very interested if you could cite any official demarcation _(including an Armistice Line or any other territorial agreement)_ wherein any sovereignty actually recognizes a specific boundary where the Arab Palestine People have true sovereignty one any boundary.
> 
> No matter who you would consider as President of Palestine, I would be very interested in any information you would have on the length and breadth of that sovereignty.   I suspect you would even have a problem with that for anything prior to 29 November 2012 _(A/RES/67/19 Palestine non-member Observer State 4 DEC 2012)_.
> 
> For your consideration, I would point you to the UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs Memorandum:
> 
> ◈  Subject:  Issues related to General Assembly resolution 67/19 on the Status of Palestine in the United Nations, dated 11 December 2012.​
> Among other things that the UN says about the Status is:
> 
> [View attachment 241992​
> It is my contention that, as the UN Undersecretary explains:
> 
> ◈  During the period:  15 December 1988 (UN Resolution 43/177) to 29 November 2012 the designation of Palestine" was used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization."
> 
> ◈  After the 29 November 2012:  "Palestine" is recognized as a State _(State of Palestine)_ with the "Head of State as His Excellency Mr Mahmoud Abbas, President of the State of Palestine."​
> I hope this, with the Previous links I have referenced, helps explain my position.  Now I realize that you do not recognize any of this.  As in the past, I have in our various conversations, discussed this and more, with many more "LINKs."  But, I would like to make reference to one more salient point in the UN Memo:
> ​View attachment 241993
> ​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no legal requirement for a two state solution.
> 
> There are no borders inside Palestine's international borders defining territory.
Click to expand...


Here we go again. On one hand he talks about Israel not abiding by “ International law “; then he admits it doesn’t exist. He actually gives reason as to why Israel should not abide by those “ laws”.  Keep posting!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
DIVERSION FROM THE QUESTION​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You get this wrong quite frequently...



P F Tinmore said:


> There is no legal requirement for a two-state solution.
> 
> There are no borders inside Palestine's international borders defining territory.


*(COMMENT ONE HIGHER ORDER)*

CHALLENGE:  "inside Palestine's international borders"​
◈  The General Assymbly, after the adoption of Resolution 67/19, has continued to use the wording - "Occupied Palestinian Territory including East Jerusalem  →  to define the whole geograpic area that was occupied since the 1967 War _(but only that limited area meaning the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_.  When they designated "Palestine or the State of Palestine" the UN means very specific territorial limits.

There is no designation for such a thing as the "Occupied Palestinian State" or the "Occupied State of Palestine."  That wording, as the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs points out, is false and misleading → and specifically not to be use.

Thus, in that respect, there are no borders inside Palestine.​
*(COMMENT TWO LOWER ORDER)*

Outside of the above, it is perfectly proper to refer directly to those international boundaries established by treaties.

*◈  Article II - Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •*

The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the _*recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine*_, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
◈  *Article 3 - The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)* •​
✧  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
✧  The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
✧  The Parties recognize the international boundary, as well as each other's territory, territorial waters and airspace, as inviolable, and will respect and comply with them.
✧  The demarcation of the boundary will take place as set forth in Appendix (I) to Annex I and will be concluded not later than 9 months after the signing of the Treaty.​
The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].

You have in the past, attempted to use both the Treaty of Lausanne and the Allied Powers intent.  But these do not nullify the Treaty Arrangements between States.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> DIVERSION FROM THE QUESTION​⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You get this wrong quite frequently...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legal requirement for a two-state solution.
> 
> There are no borders inside Palestine's international borders defining territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT ONE HIGHER ORDER)*
> 
> CHALLENGE:  "inside Palestine's international borders"​
> ◈  The General Assymbly, after the adoption of Resolution 67/19, has continued to use the wording - "Occupied Palestinian Territory including East Jerusalem  →  to define the whole geograpic area that was occupied since the 1967 War _(but only that limited area meaning the West Bank and Gaza Strip)_.  When they designated "Palestine or the State of Palestine" the UN means very specific territorial limits.
> 
> There is no designation for such a thing as the "Occupied Palestinian State" or the "Occupied State of Palestine."  That wording, as the Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs points out, is false and misleading → and specifically not to be use.
> 
> Thus, in that respect, there are no borders inside Palestine.​
> *(COMMENT TWO LOWER ORDER)*
> 
> Outside of the above, it is perfectly proper to refer directly to those international boundaries established by treaties.
> 
> *◈  Article II - Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •*
> 
> The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the _*recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine*_, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> ◈  *Article 3 - The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)* •​
> ✧  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
> ✧  The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
> ✧  The Parties recognize the international boundary, as well as each other's territory, territorial waters and airspace, as inviolable, and will respect and comply with them.
> ✧  The demarcation of the boundary will take place as set forth in Appendix (I) to Annex I and will be concluded not later than 9 months after the signing of the Treaty.​
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> You have in the past, attempted to use both the Treaty of Lausanne and the Allied Powers intent.  But these do not nullify the Treaty Arrangements between States.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].


It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.

Article 53
Treaties conflicting with
a peremptory norm of
general international law (“jus cogens”)​
A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.

But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)

Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.   

Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.

Article 1
The boundaries between the territories 

◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand

◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.


Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...


When was the state of Palestine declared?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the state of Palestine declared?
Click to expand...


Never


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the state of Palestine declared?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never
Click to expand...



I thought Tinmore might know.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The leadership of the recognized "State of Palestine" has never attempted to define its borders by treaty or any other international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law under the [Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)].
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the state of Palestine declared?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to. Palestine's international borders nave been uncontested since 1924.
> 
> Article 53
> Treaties conflicting with
> a peremptory norm of
> general international law (“jus cogens”)​
> A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the state of Palestine declared?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


Unsubstantiated Pro Palestinian babble


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You're correct.  They don't have to do anything.  But the less they act like a government, the less the citizenry will benefit from their lazy and incompetent leadership.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.  Under Article 16, the title and rights go to the Allied Powers.  Under Article 30 the inhabitance will get a nationality _(they will not be stateless)_.
> 
> But it must be remembered that the Arabs of the Region _(including the territory subject to the Mandate for Palestine)_ were not a party to the Treaty of Lausanne.   (See Articles 2e→h and Articles 11→15 Vienna Convention Law Treaties)
> 
> Nothing → (I say again) → Nothing in the Treaty substantiates your position.
> 
> Furthermore:  Under the "Franco-British Convention on Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for Syria and the Lebanon, Palestine and Mesopotamia" (28 December 1920) set the boundaries.
> 
> Article 1
> The boundaries between the territories
> 
> ◈  under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand
> 
> ◈  and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other​are determined as follows: —​
> These boundaries essentially remained the same and for all practical purposes, were either incorporated or unaffected by the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When was the state of Palestine declared?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Pro Palestinian babble
Click to expand...

There is your substantiation right there.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not at all misleading or inaccurate.  And you are trying to imply a 1924 tie to statehood, the "Constitutive Theory of Statehood," used by the "Michigan Journal of International Law" to argue the matter of statehood mentions the Treaty of Lausanne (see pages 755 and 756), it does not use it to substantively support a viable argument.  It says that the treaty "reflected an assumption" that the Class A mandate territories specifically included statehood for Palestine or any other single territory that was placed under the Mandate.

THEN:  The argument jumps immediately to the famous  "Judgement #5 
	

* Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *(*See Posting #7987*) to make the connection to the Government of Palestine (GoP).  The PCIJ Rule held that the Civil Administration created for the Mandate was, in point of fact, the GoP. 

Otherwise, the association of the Treaty of Lausanne is merely a legal ruse.

The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:

◈  By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?

•  I and our friend Hollie have an agreement that we will only eat Häagen-Dazs Ice Cream.
•  But then I go to the Dairy Queen and have a Chocolate Blizzard.
•  Hollie makes no complaint with that.
•  But then you come around and want the Court to make me follow the original agreement.
⟴  By what right do you have to attempt judicial enforcement of the agreement between Holie and I, for which you are not a party?​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> 
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There are a couple of legal maxims that dates back to the early 1800s.

◈  The first (_Nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali) (requirement for previous law)_ maxim states that there can no punish ordered for an action which was not a wrong doing _(including misfeasance, malfeasance or non-feeasance)_, as the law existed at the moment the alleged offence occurred. A consequence of this principle is that only those penalties that had already been established for the offence in the time when it was committed can be imposed.

◈  The second_ (Nulla poena sine lege stricta) (requirement for previous law) _maxim requires a specific law without the extension by analogy.  The court cannot just say that, by today's standard, or in comparison to, → a "wrong doing" has been done.

◈  The third _(Nulla poena sine lege)_ stipulates that "a person convicted by the Court may be punished only in accordance with this Statute."​
The entirety of or the compilation of all the various arguments, hidden in the backdrop, is the allegation that some political body _(the League of Nations, the Allied Powers, the United Nations)_ or nation-state _(the United States or Israeli)_, by virtue of its power _(use of force - or - the threat to use force)_ wronged the Arab Palestinian (as a people) through intimidation or coercion.  And it is these allegation that the Arab Palestinians want the 21st Century "World Opinion" to overturn diplomatic, political or military decisions that were made in the early years of the 20th Century and carried through to the present day.

It then becomes an imperative that the Arab Palestinian representatives stipulate clear and concisely:

◈  What specific wrong doing was done _(including the date)_ that directly injured the Arab Palestinians?

◈  What specific international law _(enforce at the time)_ applies for that wrongdoing _(without analogy or interpretation)_?

◈  What leader, political body, or nation-state is responsible for the wrong doing?​
Only then can we address the individual issues with any clear purpose and understanding.  My "THEORY" is that the pro-Arab Palestinian movements simply cannot make their case; and jump to the political-military policy of "armed struggle _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_.  My "THEORY" as to why this as not been already done _(since it is so simple of a necessary first step)_ is because the majority of the allegations are based on an attempt to persuade "World Opinion," under the color of law; and, through a tearful appeal to the global emotion rather than using a step by step approach as to the evidence and the events at the heart of the individual issues.

Just my thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not at all misleading or inaccurate.  And you are trying to imply a 1924 tie to statehood, the "Constitutive Theory of Statehood," used by the "Michigan Journal of International Law" to argue the matter of statehood mentions the Treaty of Lausanne (see pages 755 and 756), it does not use it to substantively support a viable argument.  It says that the treaty "reflected an assumption" that the Class A mandate territories specifically included statehood for Palestine or any other single territory that was placed under the Mandate.
> 
> THEN:  The argument jumps immediately to the famous  "Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *(*See Posting #7987*) to make the connection to the Government of Palestine (GoP).  The PCIJ Rule held that the Civil Administration created for the Mandate was, in point of fact, the GoP.
> 
> Otherwise, the association of the Treaty of Lausanne is merely a legal ruse.
> 
> The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:
> 
> ◈  By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?
> 
> •  I and our friend Hollie have an agreement that we will only eat Häagen-Dazs Ice Cream.
> •  But then I go to the Dairy Queen and have a Chocolate Blizzard.
> •  Hollie makes no complaint with that.
> •  But then you come around and want the Court to make me follow the original agreement.
> ⟴  By what right do you have to attempt judicial enforcement of the agreement between Holie and I, for which you are not a party?​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1924 Treaty of Lausanne did not address Palestine directly and promises nothing in terms of territory to the inhabitance.
> 
> 
> 
> Very misleading statement. None of the new states in that region were mentioned by name. However, every territory broken off of the Turkish Empire was defined by international borders and became a state. All of the people who lived in those territories became nationals and citizens of their respective new state.
> 
> http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are a couple of legal maxims that dates back to the early 1800s.
> 
> ◈  The first (_Nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali) (requirement for previous law)_ maxim states that there can no punish ordered for an action which was not a wrong doing _(including misfeasance, malfeasance or non-feeasance)_, as the law existed at the moment the alleged offence occurred. A consequence of this principle is that only those penalties that had already been established for the offence in the time when it was committed can be imposed.
> 
> ◈  The second_ (Nulla poena sine lege stricta) (requirement for previous law) _maxim requires a specific law without the extension by analogy.  The court cannot just say that, by today's standard, or in comparison to, → a "wrong doing" has been done.
> 
> ◈  The third _(Nulla poena sine lege)_ stipulates that "a person convicted by the Court may be punished only in accordance with this Statute."​
> The entirety of or the compilation of all the various arguments, hidden in the backdrop, is the allegation that some political body _(the League of Nations, the Allied Powers, the United Nations)_ or nation-state _(the United States or Israeli)_, by virtue of its power _(use of force - or - the threat to use force)_ wronged the Arab Palestinian (as a people) through intimidation or coercion.  And it is these allegation that the Arab Palestinians want the 21st Century "World Opinion" to overturn diplomatic, political or military decisions that were made in the early years of the 20th Century and carried through to the present day.
> 
> It then becomes an imperative that the Arab Palestinian representatives stipulate clear and concisely:
> 
> ◈  What specific wrong doing was done _(including the date)_ that directly injured the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> ◈  What specific international law _(enforce at the time)_ applies for that wrongdoing _(without analogy or interpretation)_?
> 
> ◈  What leader, political body, or nation-state is responsible for the wrong doing?​
> Only then can we address the individual issues with any clear purpose and understanding.  My "THEORY" is that the pro-Arab Palestinian movements simply cannot make their case; and jump to the political-military policy of "armed struggle _(Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence)_.  My "THEORY" as to why this as not been already done _(since it is so simple of a necessary first step)_ is because the majority of the allegations are based on an attempt to persuade "World Opinion," under the color of law; and, through a tearful appeal to the global emotion rather than using a step by step approach as to the evidence and the events at the heart of the individual issues.
> 
> Just my thought.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:
> 
> ◈ By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?


You are trying to confuse the issue. As I have posted before, a treaty is void if it conflicts with international law. On the flip side, treaties define how international law applies to a certain circumstance. The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.

In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?



Oh wow.  You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of what a treaty is.  A treaty is a contract, an agreement between States.  By definition it requires signatories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow.  You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of what a treaty is.  A treaty is a contract, an agreement between States.  By definition it requires signatories.
Click to expand...

I never said otherwise.

Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow.  You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of what a treaty is.  A treaty is a contract, an agreement between States.  By definition it requires signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said otherwise.
> 
> Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.
Click to expand...


You are conflating laws which apply to everyone (like laws against speeding) with treaties.  Treaties only bind the people who agree to be bound and only by the requirements of the treaty.  The point Rocco made was that parties who are not parties to an agreement have NO SAY in the agreement.  The Arab Palestinians have no say in agreements to which they are not a party.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow.  You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of what a treaty is.  A treaty is a contract, an agreement between States.  By definition it requires signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said otherwise.
> 
> Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are conflating laws which apply to everyone (like laws against speeding) with treaties.  Treaties only bind the people who agree to be bound and only by the requirements of the treaty.  The point Rocco made was that parties who are not parties to an agreement have NO SAY in the agreement.  The Arab Palestinians have no say in agreements to which they are not a party.
Click to expand...

OK, but following international law, they became citizens of their own state.

So who is going to complain?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wow.  You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of what a treaty is.  A treaty is a contract, an agreement between States.  By definition it requires signatories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said otherwise.
> 
> Don't blame me for your reading comprehension problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are conflating laws which apply to everyone (like laws against speeding) with treaties.  Treaties only bind the people who agree to be bound and only by the requirements of the treaty.  The point Rocco made was that parties who are not parties to an agreement have NO SAY in the agreement.  The Arab Palestinians have no say in agreements to which they are not a party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but following international law, they became citizens of their own state.
> 
> So who is going to complain?
Click to expand...


They became citizens of the State built for the reconstitution of the Jewish Nation Homeland. 

They were hostile to being citizens of that government. Legally, in your opinion, what are the repercussions or consequences to being hostile to the legal government of a given sovereign nation?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I would not dare to try and confuse the issue.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:
> ◈ By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are trying to confuse the issue. As I have posted before, a treaty is void if it conflicts with international law. On the flip side, treaties define how international law applies to a certain circumstance. The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

A law relative to "speeding" is an actually enforced by a piece of legislation relative to jurisdiction and enacted by a governing body.  _(It does not need your name to be applicable.)_  Whereas treaties and conventions must a  "consent to be bound" by the parties involved.

A "Treaty" or "Convention" is an *agreement concluded between States* in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation _(Article 2 of the Vienna Convention)_.  But it must also be understood that there are agreements concluded between entities that are outside the Vienna Convention.

To my knowledge, → there is no conflict in law relative to our discussion.  Just as laws evolve or can be changed in almost every country _[(most things change over time)(∆t)]_ your basic interpretation and implication that agreements between states cannot be altered, dissolved or replaced → is not correct.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat on Negotiations in Palestine: Why are they happening? Why do we oppose them?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I would not dare to try and confuse the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:
> ◈ By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are trying to confuse the issue. As I have posted before, a treaty is void if it conflicts with international law. On the flip side, treaties define how international law applies to a certain circumstance. The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A law relative to "speeding" is an actually enforced by a piece of legislation relative to jurisdiction and enacted by a governing body.  _(It does not need your name to be applicable.)_  Whereas treaties and conventions must a  "consent to be bound" by the parties involved.
> 
> A "Treaty" or "Convention" is an *agreement concluded between States* in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation _(Article 2 of the Vienna Convention)_.  But it must also be understood that there are agreements concluded between entities that are outside the Vienna Convention.
> 
> To my knowledge, → there is no conflict in law relative to our discussion.  Just as laws evolve or can be changed in almost every country _[(most things change over time)(∆t)]_ your basic interpretation and implication that agreements between states cannot be altered, dissolved or replaced → is not correct.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How does that refute my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Exclusive: Angela Davis Speaks Out on Palestine, BDS & More After Civil Rights Award Is Revoked*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I would not dare to try and confuse the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The argument completely jumps over the relevant point that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty and answers the question:
> ◈ By what right does a non-party to an agreement have over the interpretation and enforcement of an independent treaty to which other soveriegnties are enjoined?​
> 
> 
> 
> ​You are trying to confuse the issue. As I have posted before, a treaty is void if it conflicts with international law. On the flip side, treaties define how international law applies to a certain circumstance. The treaty does not have to name anybody. It merely defines how laws are universally applied to everyone in that circumstance.
> 
> In the laws against speeding, my name is nowhere to be found. Does that mean that they do not apply to me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A law relative to "speeding" is an actually enforced by a piece of legislation relative to jurisdiction and enacted by a governing body.  _(It does not need your name to be applicable.)_  Whereas treaties and conventions must a  "consent to be bound" by the parties involved.
> 
> A "Treaty" or "Convention" is an *agreement concluded between States* in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation _(Article 2 of the Vienna Convention)_.  But it must also be understood that there are agreements concluded between entities that are outside the Vienna Convention.
> 
> To my knowledge, → there is no conflict in law relative to our discussion.  Just as laws evolve or can be changed in almost every country _[(most things change over time)(∆t)]_ your basic interpretation and implication that agreements between states cannot be altered, dissolved or replaced → is not correct.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that refute my post?
Click to expand...


You're right in depicting the Arabs as a natural recipients in granting that law , but it in matter to deny Jewish inhabitants from denying  that law You're not in the serving sector.


----------



## rylah

The Jewish sector is  right to that favor ... as apposed by the Arab Muslim community?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"

Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 
Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law 
_(“jus cogens”)_​


P F Tinmore said:


> How does that refute my post?


*(COMMENT)*

The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

'
The creation of thud the creating of Jewish power a grunts a  sovereignty they parts of eventual superpower to supreme to the power of the sovereign to the stage of the owering power to suggest.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> The creation of thud the creating of Jewish power a grunts a  sovereignty they parts of eventual superpower to supreme to the power of the sovereign to the stage of the owering power to suggest.
Click to expand...


The Jewish power to sightless to suggest power of overpower


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> '
> The creation of thud the creating of Jewish power a grunts a  sovereignty they parts of eventual superpower to supreme to the power of the sovereign to the stage of the owering power to suggest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish power to sightless to suggest power of overpower
> A thus making the Arab power to ever-lapse
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania. No country of Palestine was created until 2012.


Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_. I have demonstrated there is no conflict.


I did?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania. No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...



Substantiate your comment.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Let's step back for a minute.  In posting #8000, you contend that no Treaty Arrangement can be made that is pre-emptively estopped by a norm expected the international community:"
> 
> Article 53 - Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> Treaties conflicting with a peremptory norm of General International Law
> _(“jus cogens”)_​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The central point here is that you implied there is a conflict with another law _(an accepted practice or law by the international community)_.  I have demonstrated there is no conflict.   In 1924, the Treaty of Lausanne DID NOT establish any independent and sovereign nation in the region that was accepted by the Allied Powers that agreed upon putting into effect the establishment → in territory under Mandate → a national home for the Jewish people.  In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania.  No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1924, no state had been created in the territory under the Mandate for Palestine except Transjordania. No country of Palestine was created until 2012.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Substantiate your comment.
Click to expand...

*Decisions of international and national tribunals*
The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans.* A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.* In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]

State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia


----------



## Mindful

Tells me nothing.

Either it is, or it isn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Tells me nothing.
> 
> Either it is, or it isn't.


Where does it say it isn't?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tells me nothing.
> 
> Either it is, or it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say it isn't?
Click to expand...


So what's all the fuss about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tells me nothing.
> 
> Either it is, or it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say it isn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what's all the fuss about?
Click to expand...

Israel is always trying to "disappear" Palestine but it is just Israeli talking points.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tells me nothing.
> 
> Either it is, or it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say it isn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what's all the fuss about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is always trying to "disappear" Palestine but it is just Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Yeah right. Of course it is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Arab Israelis: Are you living under occupation?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalil Jahshan - The Fake Peace Process*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...



I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.


----------



## RoccoR

)RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is a misrepresentation of the facts. 



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCEs)*

◈  "Judgement #5 
	

* Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *→
 ◈  (*See Posting #7987*) Screen Shot of the Actual Judgement​
(*COMMENT)*

It is not "Palestine" which is defined by the Palestine Order in Council → it is the "Government of Palestine" which is the British Government for which the succession makes liable.  READ the Screen Shot from the highlighted point onward.

It should be noted that:

The year, with its preoccupations about Public Security consequent on events in Syria, was not propitious for an advance in the political organization of the Country; and the proposal to form a Legislative Council has not been, and cannot usefully be, revived while Arab political leaders maintain their opposition to a fundamental principle of the Mandate. * The Advisory Council to which all new legislation is referred is still composed exclusively of officers of the Government.*
SOURCE:  •  See the Year End Report for 1925 by the Civil Administration  •​
_•  *Question Organization of Arab co-operation with the Administration*.  •_​_​_
 M. PALACIOS said that the Commission had learnt from Sir Herbert Samuel (page 56 of the Minutes of the Fifth Session) that, if at any time the Arabs indicated that they desired to accept the British proposals regarding the Advisory Council, the Legislative Council and the Arab Agency, the last organisation to possess the same powers as the Jewish Agency, the British Government would take steps to meet their wish. Did not the Administration consider that it might profit from some favorable moment to return once more to this policy of conciliation?


*•  Palestine under British Administration  •*​In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
SOURCE:  "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"​
No matter what you might have been told, the Arabs of Palestine did not want to work with the British Administration, from the very beginning _(even before partition - or not - was decided)_.  It was not until 1988 that the Arabs of Palestine even began to think in terms of establishing self-government.

Don't let anyone attempt to confuse the issue by injecting the Egyptian ruse of the  "All Palestine Government" (APG of 1948) to insert former enemy operatives into the government.   Remembering that people like Ahmad Hilmi Pasha _(First Prime Minister of the All Palestine Protectorate APP)_ was once General in the Ottoman army during the Great War (the enemy).  Similarly, the First President of the Protectorate was also an Officer in the Ottoman Army, Captain Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, stationed in Damascus when the Ottoman Army surrenderd the garrison.  In the years following the great war, the British Administration had difficulty in dealing with those that held their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire to the bitter end.  But this did not preclude the High Commissioner to appoint Amin al-Husseini to the post of "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem."  But in the end, even that gesture was a mistake, as the Grand Mufti (once again) aligned himself with the Opponent _(Axis Powers)_ facing the Allied Powers.

It is easy for some people to say that the Arabs of Palestine were wronged.  And maybe to some extent that was true, → but every single time the Arab Palestinian Leaders were asked to step forward and help in the establishment of self-governing institutions, they found some reason to gag themselves in having a voice in government.  Only the future  Emir _(son of Hussein bin Ali,  Sharif and Emir of Mecca)_ stayed the course and in 1921 by the then  Emir  Abdullah I through cooperation and a voice in the British protectorate did Trans-Jordania begin to transition from a self-governing institution to a nation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> )RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  "Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *→
> ◈  (*See Posting #7987*) Screen Shot of the Actual Judgement​
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not "Palestine" which is defined by the Palestine Order in Council → it is the "Government of Palestine" which is the British Government for which the succession makes liable.  READ the Screen Shot from the highlighted point onward.
> 
> It should be noted that:
> 
> The year, with its preoccupations about Public Security consequent on events in Syria, was not propitious for an advance in the political organization of the Country; and the proposal to form a Legislative Council has not been, and cannot usefully be, revived while Arab political leaders maintain their opposition to a fundamental principle of the Mandate. * The Advisory Council to which all new legislation is referred is still composed exclusively of officers of the Government.*
> SOURCE:  •  See the Year End Report for 1925 by the Civil Administration  •​
> _•  *Question Organization of Arab co-operation with the Administration*.  •_​
> M. PALACIOS said that the Commission had learnt from Sir Herbert Samuel (page 56 of the Minutes of the Fifth Session) that, if at any time the Arabs indicated that they desired to accept the British proposals regarding the Advisory Council, the Legislative Council and the Arab Agency, the last organisation to possess the same powers as the Jewish Agency, the British Government would take steps to meet their wish. Did not the Administration consider that it might profit from some favorable moment to return once more to this policy of conciliation?
> 
> 
> *•  Palestine under British Administration  •*​In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> SOURCE:  "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"​
> No matter what you might have been told, the Arabs of Palestine did not want to work with the British Administration, from the very beginning _(even before partition - or not - was decided)_.  It was not until 1988 that the Arabs of Palestine even began to think in terms of establishing self-government.
> 
> Don't let anyone attempt to confuse the issue by injecting the Egyptian ruse of the  "All Palestine Government" (APG of 1948) to insert former enemy operatives into the government.   Remembering that people like Ahmad Hilmi Pasha _(First Prime Minister of the All Palestine Protectorate APP)_ was once General in the Ottoman army during the Great War (the enemy).  Similarly, the First President of the Protectorate was also an Officer in the Ottoman Army, Captain Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, stationed in Damascus when the Ottoman Army surrenderd the garrison.  In the years following the great war, the British Administration had difficulty in dealing with those that held their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire to the bitter end.  But this did not preclude the High Commissioner to appoint Amin al-Husseini to the post of "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem."  But in the end, even that gesture was a mistake, as the Grand Mufti (once again) aligned himself with the Opponent _(Axis Powers)_ facing the Allied Powers.
> 
> It is easy for some people to say that the Arabs of Palestine were wronged.  And maybe to some extent that was true, → but every single time the Arab Palestinian Leaders were asked to step forward and help in the establishment of self-governing institutions, they found some reason to gag themselves in having a voice in government.  Only the future  Emir _(son of Hussein bin Ali,  Sharif and Emir of Mecca)_ stayed the course and in 1921 by the then  Emir  Abdullah I through cooperation and a voice in the British protectorate did Trans-Jordania begin to transition from a self-governing institution to a nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.

This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ilan Pappe- Decolonizing Israel*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> )RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  "Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *→
> ◈  (*See Posting #7987*) Screen Shot of the Actual Judgement​
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not "Palestine" which is defined by the Palestine Order in Council → it is the "Government of Palestine" which is the British Government for which the succession makes liable.  READ the Screen Shot from the highlighted point onward.
> 
> It should be noted that:
> 
> The year, with its preoccupations about Public Security consequent on events in Syria, was not propitious for an advance in the political organization of the Country; and the proposal to form a Legislative Council has not been, and cannot usefully be, revived while Arab political leaders maintain their opposition to a fundamental principle of the Mandate. * The Advisory Council to which all new legislation is referred is still composed exclusively of officers of the Government.*
> SOURCE:  •  See the Year End Report for 1925 by the Civil Administration  •​
> _•  *Question Organization of Arab co-operation with the Administration*.  •_​
> M. PALACIOS said that the Commission had learnt from Sir Herbert Samuel (page 56 of the Minutes of the Fifth Session) that, if at any time the Arabs indicated that they desired to accept the British proposals regarding the Advisory Council, the Legislative Council and the Arab Agency, the last organisation to possess the same powers as the Jewish Agency, the British Government would take steps to meet their wish. Did not the Administration consider that it might profit from some favorable moment to return once more to this policy of conciliation?
> 
> 
> *•  Palestine under British Administration  •*​In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> SOURCE:  "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"​
> No matter what you might have been told, the Arabs of Palestine did not want to work with the British Administration, from the very beginning _(even before partition - or not - was decided)_.  It was not until 1988 that the Arabs of Palestine even began to think in terms of establishing self-government.
> 
> Don't let anyone attempt to confuse the issue by injecting the Egyptian ruse of the  "All Palestine Government" (APG of 1948) to insert former enemy operatives into the government.   Remembering that people like Ahmad Hilmi Pasha _(First Prime Minister of the All Palestine Protectorate APP)_ was once General in the Ottoman army during the Great War (the enemy).  Similarly, the First President of the Protectorate was also an Officer in the Ottoman Army, Captain Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, stationed in Damascus when the Ottoman Army surrenderd the garrison.  In the years following the great war, the British Administration had difficulty in dealing with those that held their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire to the bitter end.  But this did not preclude the High Commissioner to appoint Amin al-Husseini to the post of "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem."  But in the end, even that gesture was a mistake, as the Grand Mufti (once again) aligned himself with the Opponent _(Axis Powers)_ facing the Allied Powers.
> 
> It is easy for some people to say that the Arabs of Palestine were wronged.  And maybe to some extent that was true, → but every single time the Arab Palestinian Leaders were asked to step forward and help in the establishment of self-governing institutions, they found some reason to gag themselves in having a voice in government.  Only the future  Emir _(son of Hussein bin Ali,  Sharif and Emir of Mecca)_ stayed the course and in 1921 by the then  Emir  Abdullah I through cooperation and a voice in the British protectorate did Trans-Jordania begin to transition from a self-governing institution to a nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.
Click to expand...


So you keep saying.

Ad nauseum.


----------



## Mindful

*Peace*
*
by Bassam Tawil
January 28, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*The Palestinian Jihad Against Peace*


According to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, an upcoming US-sponsored global summit to discuss the Middle East and Iran will "bring together dozens of countries from all around the world, from Asia, from Africa, from Western Hemisphere countries, Europe too, the Middle East of course."


The Palestinian strategy is now based on inciting Arabs against their leaders. This is the message that Abbas and his officials are sending to the Arabs: "You need to join us in our campaign to stop our leaders from making peace with Israel. You must condemn any leader who seeks normalization with Israel as a traitor."


Other senior Palestinian officials have gone further by warning the Arab countries that any form of normalization with Israel would be considered an act of treason


It now remains to be seen whether the Arab countries will surrender to the latest campaign of Palestinian incitement and intimidation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, that is a misrepresentation of the facts.



P F Tinmore said:


> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.


*(COMMENT)*

During the Great War (WWI) what you call the "foreigners" _ [the Allied Powers, specifically the British Empire's Egyptian Expeditionary Force (EEF)]_ assumed the role of the British partner in the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  The EEF played a major part in the defeat of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the Armistice of Mudros.  

I understand that you support the Central Powers theme in the WWI, and therefore considered that assumption of effective control _(over enemy-held territory)_ by the Allied Powers to be a band of "foreigners."   But that is not the case at all.  I can see the contaminated view you hold → over a century after the enormous sacrifice made _(the centennial of the Armistice just two months ago on 11 November 1918)_.  Yeah, I wouldn't expect the descendants of the enemy held territory to hold that in remembrance.  But it puts an entirely different perspective on your use of the term "foreigners" for the descendants of those that made the sacrifice in the Great War. 

The concept of a Jewish National Home" came first _(much further back than a century)_, and later the transition to a more substantial plan for a "Jewish State" after a lack of cooperation in what the Mandatory described as "obligations undertaken to the two communities _(Jewish 'v' Arab)_ in Palestine have been shown to be irreconcilable."  Placed in that light, and to accomplish what the Allied Powers agreed to in the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, only a Two-State Solution was possible. 

The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.  This lack of cooperation is still  prominent today in the Arab Palestinian overwhelming support of the criminal behaviors demonstrated by Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamics, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter that carry out the ever-evolving lack of cooperation on the part of the Arabs of Palestine since the surrender of the Ottoman Empire on the decks of the HMS Agamemnon _(30 October 1918)_.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> )RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  "Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *→
> ◈  (*See Posting #7987*) Screen Shot of the Actual Judgement​
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not "Palestine" which is defined by the Palestine Order in Council → it is the "Government of Palestine" which is the British Government for which the succession makes liable.  READ the Screen Shot from the highlighted point onward.
> 
> It should be noted that:
> 
> The year, with its preoccupations about Public Security consequent on events in Syria, was not propitious for an advance in the political organization of the Country; and the proposal to form a Legislative Council has not been, and cannot usefully be, revived while Arab political leaders maintain their opposition to a fundamental principle of the Mandate. * The Advisory Council to which all new legislation is referred is still composed exclusively of officers of the Government.*
> SOURCE:  •  See the Year End Report for 1925 by the Civil Administration  •​
> _•  *Question Organization of Arab co-operation with the Administration*.  •_​
> M. PALACIOS said that the Commission had learnt from Sir Herbert Samuel (page 56 of the Minutes of the Fifth Session) that, if at any time the Arabs indicated that they desired to accept the British proposals regarding the Advisory Council, the Legislative Council and the Arab Agency, the last organisation to possess the same powers as the Jewish Agency, the British Government would take steps to meet their wish. Did not the Administration consider that it might profit from some favorable moment to return once more to this policy of conciliation?
> 
> 
> *•  Palestine under British Administration  •*​In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> SOURCE:  "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"​
> No matter what you might have been told, the Arabs of Palestine did not want to work with the British Administration, from the very beginning _(even before partition - or not - was decided)_.  It was not until 1988 that the Arabs of Palestine even began to think in terms of establishing self-government.
> 
> Don't let anyone attempt to confuse the issue by injecting the Egyptian ruse of the  "All Palestine Government" (APG of 1948) to insert former enemy operatives into the government.   Remembering that people like Ahmad Hilmi Pasha _(First Prime Minister of the All Palestine Protectorate APP)_ was once General in the Ottoman army during the Great War (the enemy).  Similarly, the First President of the Protectorate was also an Officer in the Ottoman Army, Captain Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, stationed in Damascus when the Ottoman Army surrenderd the garrison.  In the years following the great war, the British Administration had difficulty in dealing with those that held their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire to the bitter end.  But this did not preclude the High Commissioner to appoint Amin al-Husseini to the post of "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem."  But in the end, even that gesture was a mistake, as the Grand Mufti (once again) aligned himself with the Opponent _(Axis Powers)_ facing the Allied Powers.
> 
> It is easy for some people to say that the Arabs of Palestine were wronged.  And maybe to some extent that was true, → but every single time the Arab Palestinian Leaders were asked to step forward and help in the establishment of self-governing institutions, they found some reason to gag themselves in having a voice in government.  Only the future  Emir _(son of Hussein bin Ali,  Sharif and Emir of Mecca)_ stayed the course and in 1921 by the then  Emir  Abdullah I through cooperation and a voice in the British protectorate did Trans-Jordania begin to transition from a self-governing institution to a nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.



Whenever you post something like this, which is often enough, I am floored by the irony.  There are now ~6 million Arab Palestinians who are part of a foreign settler colonial project trying to convince the world that they should be allowed to "plop down" on top of Israel and scatter those natives to the four winds.  

It astonishes me that you can demand the return of generations of Arab Palestinians while at the same time rejecting the return of generations of the Jewish people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, that is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> During the Great War (WWI) what you call the "foreigners" _ [the Allied Powers, specifically the British Empire's Egyptian Expeditionary Force (EEF)]_ assumed the role of the British partner in the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  The EEF played a major part in the defeat of the Ottoman Empire and the establishment of the Armistice of Mudros.
> 
> I understand that you support the Central Powers theme in the WWI, and therefore considered that assumption of effective control _(over enemy-held territory)_ by the Allied Powers to be a band of "foreigners."   But that is not the case at all.  I can see the contaminated view you hold → over a century after the enormous sacrifice made _(the centennial of the Armistice just two months ago on 11 November 1918)_.  Yeah, I wouldn't expect the descendants of the enemy held territory to hold that in remembrance.  But it puts an entirely different perspective on your use of the term "foreigners" for the descendants of those that made the sacrifice in the Great War.
> 
> The concept of a Jewish National Home" came first _(much further back than a century)_, and later the transition to a more substantial plan for a "Jewish State" after a lack of cooperation in what the Mandatory described as "obligations undertaken to the two communities _(Jewish 'v' Arab)_ in Palestine have been shown to be irreconcilable."  Placed in that light, and to accomplish what the Allied Powers agreed to in the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, only a Two-State Solution was possible.
> 
> The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.  This lack of cooperation is still  prominent today in the Arab Palestinian overwhelming support of the criminal behaviors demonstrated by Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamics, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter that carry out the ever-evolving lack of cooperation on the part of the Arabs of Palestine since the surrender of the Ottoman Empire on the decks of the HMS Agamemnon _(30 October 1918)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.


Why do you say demand for dominance? What does that mean?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Political and cultural dominance are characteristics necessary to achieve such influence over legislative matters that the minority essentially have no competitive voice.  This allows the majority to act maliciously towards the minority; depriving the minority of any rights and protections through the manipulation of the law.

The second and very critical dominance is the impact on the economic balance.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say demand for dominance? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Political and cultural dominance is the first steps historically used to abuse the Jewish People and strip them of their wealth and liberty.  It has been often used by unscrupulous majority elements as a prelude to the persecution of the Jewish People.  This is why the Allied Powers and the more advanced leadership of the world saw it necessary to establish a Jewish National Home that was separate and distinct from the influences of the general Arab Populations.

The influx of millions of Arab Palestinians into the economy of Israel with destabilize and then destroy the nation.  Every category of human development will gradually turn down into a negative direction until Israel becomes just another failed state.

The Arab Palestinian refugees will become an albatross around the neck of the Israelis; strangling the life out of the country.  It is why none of the other Arab League nations want the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab Palestinians represent a burden and critical setback from which there is no return.

Finally, it is necessary to understand that even if the Jewish State agreed to the demands of the Arab Palestinians, it would not guarantee an end to the conflict.   It would be a role reversal in which the Israelis will become the resistance movement for independence and sovereignty.

In the end, giving in to the demand for Arab Palestinian dominance over the Jewish State will ultimately lead to another failed state and a continuation of conflict. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Political and cultural dominance are characteristics necessary to achieve such influence over legislative matters that the minority essentially have no competitive voice.  This allows the majority to act maliciously towards the minority; depriving the minority of any rights and protections through the manipulation of the law.
> 
> The second and very critical dominance is the impact on the economic balance.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say demand for dominance? What does that mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Political and cultural dominance is the first steps historically used to abuse the Jewish People and strip them of their wealth and liberty.  It has been often used by unscrupulous majority elements as a prelude to the persecution of the Jewish People.  This is why the Allied Powers and the more advanced leadership of the world saw it necessary to establish a Jewish National Home that was separate and distinct from the influences of the general Arab Populations.
> 
> The influx of millions of Arab Palestinians into the economy of Israel with destabilize and then destroy the nation.  Every category of human development will gradually turn down into a negative direction until Israel becomes just another failed state.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian refugees will become an albatross around the neck of the Israelis; strangling the life out of the country.  It is why none of the other Arab League nations want the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab Palestinians represent a burden and critical setback from which there is no return.
> 
> Finally, it is necessary to understand that even if the Jewish State agreed to the demands of the Arab Palestinians, it would not guarantee an end to the conflict.   It would be a role reversal in which the Israelis will become the resistance movement for independence and sovereignty.
> 
> In the end, giving in to the demand for Arab Palestinian dominance over the Jewish State will ultimately lead to another failed state and a continuation of conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Interesting speculation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> )RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this is a misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess it says no such thing.  Please provide paragraph number where it claims Palestine was a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> ◈  "Judgement #5
> 
> 
> * Permanent Court of International Justice (PCIJ)" *→
> ◈  (*See Posting #7987*) Screen Shot of the Actual Judgement​
> (*COMMENT)*
> 
> It is not "Palestine" which is defined by the Palestine Order in Council → it is the "Government of Palestine" which is the British Government for which the succession makes liable.  READ the Screen Shot from the highlighted point onward.
> 
> It should be noted that:
> 
> The year, with its preoccupations about Public Security consequent on events in Syria, was not propitious for an advance in the political organization of the Country; and the proposal to form a Legislative Council has not been, and cannot usefully be, revived while Arab political leaders maintain their opposition to a fundamental principle of the Mandate. * The Advisory Council to which all new legislation is referred is still composed exclusively of officers of the Government.*
> SOURCE:  •  See the Year End Report for 1925 by the Civil Administration  •​
> _•  *Question Organization of Arab co-operation with the Administration*.  •_​
> M. PALACIOS said that the Commission had learnt from Sir Herbert Samuel (page 56 of the Minutes of the Fifth Session) that, if at any time the Arabs indicated that they desired to accept the British proposals regarding the Advisory Council, the Legislative Council and the Arab Agency, the last organisation to possess the same powers as the Jewish Agency, the British Government would take steps to meet their wish. Did not the Administration consider that it might profit from some favorable moment to return once more to this policy of conciliation?
> 
> 
> *•  Palestine under British Administration  •*​In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> SOURCE:  "Political History of Palestine under British Administration"​
> No matter what you might have been told, the Arabs of Palestine did not want to work with the British Administration, from the very beginning _(even before partition - or not - was decided)_.  It was not until 1988 that the Arabs of Palestine even began to think in terms of establishing self-government.
> 
> Don't let anyone attempt to confuse the issue by injecting the Egyptian ruse of the  "All Palestine Government" (APG of 1948) to insert former enemy operatives into the government.   Remembering that people like Ahmad Hilmi Pasha _(First Prime Minister of the All Palestine Protectorate APP)_ was once General in the Ottoman army during the Great War (the enemy).  Similarly, the First President of the Protectorate was also an Officer in the Ottoman Army, Captain Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, stationed in Damascus when the Ottoman Army surrenderd the garrison.  In the years following the great war, the British Administration had difficulty in dealing with those that held their allegiance to the Ottoman Empire to the bitter end.  But this did not preclude the High Commissioner to appoint Amin al-Husseini to the post of "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem."  But in the end, even that gesture was a mistake, as the Grand Mufti (once again) aligned himself with the Opponent _(Axis Powers)_ facing the Allied Powers.
> 
> It is easy for some people to say that the Arabs of Palestine were wronged.  And maybe to some extent that was true, → but every single time the Arab Palestinian Leaders were asked to step forward and help in the establishment of self-governing institutions, they found some reason to gag themselves in having a voice in government.  Only the future  Emir _(son of Hussein bin Ali,  Sharif and Emir of Mecca)_ stayed the course and in 1921 by the then  Emir  Abdullah I through cooperation and a voice in the British protectorate did Trans-Jordania begin to transition from a self-governing institution to a nation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Jewish state" is a foreign settler colonial project. It was conceived by foreigners. It was managed by foreigners. It was funded by foreigners. It all took place behind the guns if the British military.
> 
> This foreign entity was plopped down on top of Palestine scattering the natives to the four winds.
Click to expand...


*Yeah sure, and the Kingdom of Spain occupies Madrid...*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Political and cultural dominance are characteristics necessary to achieve such influence over legislative matters that the minority essentially have no competitive voice.  This allows the majority to act maliciously towards the minority; depriving the minority of any rights and protections through the manipulation of the law.
> 
> The second and very critical dominance is the impact on the economic balance.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The current situation the Region finds itself in today is a direct result of the demand for dominance on the part of the Arab Palestinians and the lack of cooperation on the part of the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say demand for dominance? What does that mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Political and cultural dominance is the first steps historically used to abuse the Jewish People and strip them of their wealth and liberty.  It has been often used by unscrupulous majority elements as a prelude to the persecution of the Jewish People.  This is why the Allied Powers and the more advanced leadership of the world saw it necessary to establish a Jewish National Home that was separate and distinct from the influences of the general Arab Populations.
> 
> The influx of millions of Arab Palestinians into the economy of Israel with destabilize and then destroy the nation.  Every category of human development will gradually turn down into a negative direction until Israel becomes just another failed state.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian refugees will become an albatross around the neck of the Israelis; strangling the life out of the country.  It is why none of the other Arab League nations want the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab Palestinians represent a burden and critical setback from which there is no return.
> 
> Finally, it is necessary to understand that even if the Jewish State agreed to the demands of the Arab Palestinians, it would not guarantee an end to the conflict.   It would be a role reversal in which the Israelis will become the resistance movement for independence and sovereignty.
> 
> In the end, giving in to the demand for Arab Palestinian dominance over the Jewish State will ultimately lead to another failed state and a continuation of conflict.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting speculation.
Click to expand...


What speculation? 
A hundred years prior to the establishment of Israel all local Jews were expelled by Arabs from all of their holy cities, murdered and raped men, women and children. Then followed waves of bloody Arab pogroms throughout the vast Ottoman empire against the Jewish minority that was caused by another age old "bloody matzos" libel, and that is all it took for the Arabs to go murder the Jews anywhere they were found.

Fact is You fight to eliminate the only non-Muslim state in the region, ironically the only country where Muslims actually have the most freedom and quality of life.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Q. So how come the Tamimis are also the ruling family of Qatar?
If talking about colonialism, maybe we should really talk about the elephant in the room...






Tamim bin Hamad al Thani (Tamimi royal dynasty) -  Emir of Qatar.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Cheap taqqiya at play

Can't discuss Arab colonialism
promotes teens who call to Jihad against infidels...
wants a Caliphate and Muslim domination yet keeps repeating "nothing to do with religion"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*"Death to America" panel of discussion*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

This presentation is an argument for the Arab Palestinian Right to Return to include "descendants."  It claims that the Israelis are trying to make an exception to the application of including the descendants; essentially excluding descendants.

*BLUF:*  The definition used by the UNRWA in the standards for identifying those who are entitled to be registered in its Registration System and/or to
receive the Agency’s services, IS NOT the same as a legally adopted definition of a refugee.



P F Tinmore said:


> While Israel was created as a homeland for Jews, it has also meant the expulsion of the Palestinian people. Palestinians that once ...•  Media Truncated  •


*(REFERENCES)*

◈  Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) ◈   The UNRWA in the standards for identifying those who are entitled to be registered in its Registration System and/or to receive the Agency’s services, IS NOT the same as a legally adopted definition of a refugee.

◈  Convention and Protocols Relating to the Status of Refugees ◈  "Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article 1" _(see pages 14 - 16)_.  This convention is the essentials pertaining to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) task of supervising international conventions providing for the protection of refugees.

✦  *NOTE:*  The "Convention shall not apply to persons who are at present receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance." _(Example the UNRWA)_.

When such protection or assistance has ceased for any reason, without the position of such persons being definitively settled in accordance with the
relevant resolutions adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations, these persons shall ipso facto be entitled to the benefits of this Convention.​
*(COMMENT)*

CERI is an instruction booklet, NOT an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law.  It is the exception to the international law governing Refugee Protocols used around the rest of the world, → as signified by the member which have “ratified” and “accepted”, “approved” open “accession” → transmitted to the Secretariat of the United Nations for registration or filing and recording,  as the case may be, and for publication.   This is *much different than* the Convention and Protocols used elsewhere in the world.  So the initial proposition from which the previous presentation attempts to inferred → follows a path to a false conclusion.

The international law definition for which the term “refugee” shall apply DOES NOT include a passage: "and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services."  That would be ruled out by the Part II - Article 2 - International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights: →  without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, *sex*, language, religion, political or another opinion, national or social origin, property, birth *or another status*.

The matter of decent is covered by Part I - Article 1 - International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination -

✦  In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, *descent,* or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.​
The matter of the discrimination and exclusion of women is covered by Part I - Article 1 - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women - which covers the fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women, 

✦  For the purposes of the present Convention, the term "discrimination against women" shall mean *any distinction, exclusion or restriction* made on the *basis of sex* which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field. ​
I could go on further, but I think you get the drift.  It is not the Israelis that are trying to establish an exception → but that of the Arab Palestinians who are fighting to establish an exception.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> This presentation is an argument for the Arab Palestinian Right to Return to include "descendants."  It claims that the Israelis are trying to make an exception to the application of including the descendants; essentially excluding descendants.
> 
> *BLUF:*  The definition used by the UNRWA in the standards for identifying those who are entitled to be registered in its Registration System and/or to
> receive the Agency’s services, IS NOT the same as a legally adopted definition of a refugee.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> While Israel was created as a homeland for Jews, it has also meant the expulsion of the Palestinian people. Palestinians that once ...•  Media Truncated  •
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈  Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) ◈   The UNRWA in the standards for identifying those who are entitled to be registered in its Registration System and/or to receive the Agency’s services, IS NOT the same as a legally adopted definition of a refugee.
> 
> ◈  Convention and Protocols Relating to the Status of Refugees ◈  "Convention endorses a single definition of the term “refugee” in Article 1" _(see pages 14 - 16)_.  This convention is the essentials pertaining to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) task of supervising international conventions providing for the protection of refugees.
> 
> ✦  *NOTE:*  The "Convention shall not apply to persons who are at present receiving from organs or agencies of the United Nations other than the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees protection or assistance." _(Example the UNRWA)_.
> 
> When such protection or assistance has ceased for any reason, without the position of such persons being definitively settled in accordance with the
> relevant resolutions adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations, these persons shall ipso facto be entitled to the benefits of this Convention.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> CERI is an instruction booklet, NOT an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law.  It is the exception to the international law governing Refugee Protocols used around the rest of the world, → as signified by the member which have “ratified” and “accepted”, “approved” open “accession” → transmitted to the Secretariat of the United Nations for registration or filing and recording,  as the case may be, and for publication.   This is *much different than* the Convention and Protocols used elsewhere in the world.  So the initial proposition from which the previous presentation attempts to inferred → follows a path to a false conclusion.
> 
> The international law definition for which the term “refugee” shall apply DOES NOT include a passage: "and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services."  That would be ruled out by the Part II - Article 2 - International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights: →  without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, *sex*, language, religion, political or another opinion, national or social origin, property, birth *or another status*.
> 
> The matter of decent is covered by Part I - Article 1 - International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination -
> 
> ✦  In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, *descent,* or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.​
> The matter of the discrimination and exclusion of women is covered by Part I - Article 1 - Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women - which covers the fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women,
> 
> ✦  For the purposes of the present Convention, the term "discrimination against women" shall mean *any distinction, exclusion or restriction* made on the *basis of sex* which has the effect or purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women, irrespective of their marital status, on a basis of equality of men and women, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field. ​
> I could go on further, but I think you get the drift.  It is not the Israelis that are trying to establish an exception → but that of the Arab Palestinians who are fighting to establish an exception.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Huh?


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian government resigns*

AMMAN: Palestinian Prime Minister Rami Hamdallah on Tuesday announced the government’s resignation.

Government spokesman Yousef Al-Mahmoud told Arab News that the Cabinet will continue carrying out its responsibilities until a new government is formed, though he said he could not predict how long that would take.


----------



## rylah

*$ 15 million: Hamas began distributing the second round of Qatari money*

Post office lines were posted in the morning hours, where the aid funds of Doha were distributed along with the Qatari ambassador. This is part of the efforts to regulate the region in which Israel, Qatar, Egypt and other countries are involved
*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib, Activist, Attorney, and Congressional Candidate in Michigan | MAKERS*

**


----------



## rylah

*Rashida Tlaib’s Ties To Anti-Semitism Run Deeper Than Previously Known*


----------



## rylah

*Report: Abu Mazen plans to increase sanctions against Gaza*
The Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar reports that Abu Mazen plans to  accelerate the sanctions against the Gaza and stop paying salaries to the families of martyrs and prisoners from Hamas. In order to increase the salaries of PA officials in Gaza.

- Kann News


----------



## rylah

*Watch: Iranian woman starving “Our money goes to Syria and Hamas”
*
An Iranian woman crying: “We don’t have enough food to eat. Sometimes we eat every other day. I can’t afford life. Our money is going to Syria, Lebanon and Gaza”.
*
*


----------



## rylah

*Billboards in Gaza thank Iran for help in conflict*
Vast billboards have appeared in Gaza expressing thanks to Iran for its help in the recent conflict between Hamas and Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*When Do We “Impeach the Motherfucker”? (with Rashida Tlaib)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Florida official verbally attacks Rep. Rashida Tlaib*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Florida official verbally attacks Rep. Rashida Tlaib*
> 
> **



Did they by any chance threaten to remove their genitalia,
as one of Tlaib's besties suggested they do to women who support Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud: Reclaiming the Palestinian Narrative*


**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Food Recipes That Serve Up Resistance*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Let me pretend I'm surprised.

Non-violence is when one suggests to remove the sexual organs of those who oppose her racism?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



The same ol video You push in every thread to deflect from the real issues.
And I ask again, let me see at least one figure capable of unifying the warring gangs?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Again same meaningless deflections to hard questions.
So You suggest driving cars will solve the internal war between the Arab fractions,
or maybe those "feminists" who threaten to remove organs from female opponents?

Seems like Palestinian agenda totally ignores that central problem, they'd rather deal with US politics than actually focus on anything they claim to stand for.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Installation of solar energy for poultry farms in Gaza Strip*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## leecross

TNHarley said:


> Palestine today? I was just reading about Palestine
> 
> Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
> UK freezes $30m in Palestinian aid over salaries for terrorists
> I was like DAMN what a bunch of assholes



Islam changes everything.

Sent from my LG-M154 using Tapatalk


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine*
*A Four Thousand Year History*
Nur Masalha







This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.

Palestine


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine



So maybe You can round that circle: how is that the most famous books under the name "Palestinian" were written by Jews and none by Arabs?

Or the fact that Hebrew is the only local language in which the word "Palestine" has an actual meaning
and no meaning in Arabic?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine



Evolved over thousands of years?

Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?

You be claiming Moses was one, next.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine




4000 years of "Palestinian identity"?!  Oh please.  What "identity" is that?


----------



## Mindful

*Story on ‘Richest Man in Palestine’ Shows Money Can’t Buy Honest, Peaceful Intentions*

The Guardian has a piece on the ostentatious mansion of the richest man in the palestinian-controlled territories. The obvious takeaway is that there are clearly palestinians doing very well – something not so obvious given the mainstream media coverage of the conflict. That, and the richest man in “Palestine” is apparently _not_ Mahmoud Abbas.


But there’s another point  I want to highlight.





As in Palladio’s original villa, which was built as a summer party house for a retired cleric, four grand salons lead from the central rotunda, although here they have been renamed after cities in historic Palestine.


There is Jerusalem-Hebron, which contains a library of almost 5,000 books, where a pair of antique French spiral staircases lead to an upper gallery of first editions and rare manuscripts. A 17th-century stone fireplace frames an iron hearth decorated with a crown, while a six-foot-long camera from Turkey stands next to photographs of Masri with former Palestine Liberation Organisation leader Yasser Arafat, to whom he was a close confidant, alongside pictures with Nelson Mandela and Pope John Paul II.

—

In his second living room, Haifa-Jaffa, stands a gold-plated throne that belonged to Khedive Ismail, the ruler of Egypt from 1863 to 1879, which Masri bought because the steamship on which he first sailed to America from Beirut was named the SS Khedive Ismail. The list goes on and it’s hard to keep up. The agile 84-year-old moves quickly from possession to priceless possession, like a keeper auditing the contents of his museum, taking phone calls in between recounting the booty of kings and emperors.

Rich Palestinian Dude has named some rooms after _Israeli_ cities, and was a confidante of arch terrorist Yasser Arafat. But when speaking to this seemingly clueless Guardian journalist, he claims he wants a two-state solution.

“I built this house for Palestine,” he says. “All my work has been to see an independent Palestine, at peace and harmony with Israel.”

I don’t buy it. I don’t think naming rooms in your house after Israeli cities is consistent with accepting the existence of Israel. Plus look at what he says in Arabic:


 Israel? I would argue it promotes the opposite.

By the way, I am guessing Guardian journalist Oliver Wainwright, who wrote the above piece, got this piece of historical revisionism from Masri:

Standing on the brow of Mount Gerizim, the steep peak south of Nablus in the West Bank, the house occupies a hallowed site of biblical legend. Canaanite tales and Samaritan manuscripts describe it as the place where Adam met Eve, where Noah built his great vessel, and where the prophet Abraham sacrificed a goat in place of his son, Ismail.

That is from the Quran, which has changed the Torah/Old Testament account where Abraham sacrificed a ram in place of Isaac, not Ismail (the forefather of Islam).


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Hope they are enjoying themselves at the Dead Sea! ( Forgot, they don’t have control of that region).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
Click to expand...

Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
Click to expand...


What "entire population"?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
Click to expand...


Seriously, haven’t you heard, The Palestinians claim that Jesus was a Palestinian, he was never Jewish.


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously, haven’t you heard, The Palestinians claim that Jesus was a Palestinian, he was never Jewish.
Click to expand...


Mary too? 

And what about all those blokes at the Shabbat Table?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
Click to expand...

Duh!


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh!
Click to expand...


Are you trying to convince me of something?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince me of something?
Click to expand...

Not worth the try.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> 
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince me of something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not worth the try.
Click to expand...


But that's all you do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince me of something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not worth the try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's all you do.
Click to expand...

OK, when were Jews the *only* people living there?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Mindful, et al,

WHY should our friend "Mindful" address your question WHEN it does not resemble the facts on the ground in the Middle East _[Israeli-Palestinian conflict → the entirety of the territory formerly under the Mandate, less Jordan (98% Arab Palestinian)]_. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Name one time in history when the entire population left and a whole group of people moved in.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Even if I were to accept as fact that somewhere between 80% - 85% or ≈ 700,000 → 750,000 Palestinians from a 1.9 million population were _(al-Jazeera's figures)_ displaced beyond the borders of the then newly formed State of Israel, I would be agreeing to a misrepresentation of the facts..


 
As you can see, in the _[__ *Division for Palestinian Rights (DPR)*(Section  III) *THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON PALESTINE*]_ Report (Part II → 1947-1977 →  Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem), the 1.9M figure is the combine approximation of the population of the Jewish State (905K) the Arab State (735K), and that of Jerusalem (205K).  That would be ≈ 1.845M (rounded up to 1.9M - The al-Jazeera figure).

There has been so much more exaggrated propaganda that has been thrown about, for so long, that the truth is nowhere to be found → let alone recognized for what it is.

And much of the propaganda that is being exaggreated is done so to divert the attetion from the one, key fact:



			
				Principal Allied Powers said:
			
		

> "the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine*
> *A Four Thousand Year History*
> Nur Masalha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past._ Palestine_ represents the authoritative account of the country's history.
> 
> Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolved over thousands of years?
> 
> Was Jesus a Palestinian? Pontious Pilate?
> 
> You be claiming Moses was one, next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously, haven’t you heard, The Palestinians claim that Jesus was a Palestinian, he was never Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mary too?
> 
> And what about all those blokes at the Shabbat Table?
Click to expand...


If Jesus was a “ Palestinian “ that means his mother was.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "entire population"?
> 
> 
> 
> Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you trying to convince me of something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not worth the try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's all you do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, when were Jews the *only* people living there?
Click to expand...


What's that got to do with it?

I thought you said it was not worth the try. But you _are _ trying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamis Deek: Women Against Imperialism Panel *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*People for Palestine: Nadia Bilbassy*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Lamis Deek: Women Against Imperialism Panel *
> 
> **



Wow.  For someone who uses so many words, she sure doesn't actually say much.  Did she have a point in all that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A conversation with Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib after a month on Capitol Hill*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## leecross

Mindful said:


> *Story on ‘Richest Man in Palestine’ Shows Money Can’t Buy Honest, Peaceful Intentions*
> 
> The Guardian has a piece on the ostentatious mansion of the richest man in the palestinian-controlled territories. The obvious takeaway is that there are clearly palestinians doing very well – something not so obvious given the mainstream media coverage of the conflict. That, and the richest man in “Palestine” is apparently _not_ Mahmoud Abbas.
> 
> 
> But there’s another point  I want to highlight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As in Palladio’s original villa, which was built as a summer party house for a retired cleric, four grand salons lead from the central rotunda, although here they have been renamed after cities in historic Palestine.
> 
> 
> There is Jerusalem-Hebron, which contains a library of almost 5,000 books, where a pair of antique French spiral staircases lead to an upper gallery of first editions and rare manuscripts. A 17th-century stone fireplace frames an iron hearth decorated with a crown, while a six-foot-long camera from Turkey stands next to photographs of Masri with former Palestine Liberation Organisation leader Yasser Arafat, to whom he was a close confidant, alongside pictures with Nelson Mandela and Pope John Paul II.
> 
> —
> 
> In his second living room, Haifa-Jaffa, stands a gold-plated throne that belonged to Khedive Ismail, the ruler of Egypt from 1863 to 1879, which Masri bought because the steamship on which he first sailed to America from Beirut was named the SS Khedive Ismail. The list goes on and it’s hard to keep up. The agile 84-year-old moves quickly from possession to priceless possession, like a keeper auditing the contents of his museum, taking phone calls in between recounting the booty of kings and emperors.
> 
> Rich Palestinian Dude has named some rooms after _Israeli_ cities, and was a confidante of arch terrorist Yasser Arafat. But when speaking to this seemingly clueless Guardian journalist, he claims he wants a two-state solution.
> 
> “I built this house for Palestine,” he says. “All my work has been to see an independent Palestine, at peace and harmony with Israel.”
> 
> I don’t buy it. I don’t think naming rooms in your house after Israeli cities is consistent with accepting the existence of Israel. Plus look at what he says in Arabic:
> 
> 
> Israel? I would argue it promotes the opposite.
> 
> By the way, I am guessing Guardian journalist Oliver Wainwright, who wrote the above piece, got this piece of historical revisionism from Masri:
> 
> Standing on the brow of Mount Gerizim, the steep peak south of Nablus in the West Bank, the house occupies a hallowed site of biblical legend. Canaanite tales and Samaritan manuscripts describe it as the place where Adam met Eve, where Noah built his great vessel, and where the prophet Abraham sacrificed a goat in place of his son, Ismail.
> 
> That is from the Quran, which has changed the Torah/Old Testament account where Abraham sacrificed a ram in place of Isaac, not Ismail (the forefather of Islam).


The Middle East Problem - Prager U





Sent from my LG-M154 using Tapatalk


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*A reversal of the Palestinian position: Open to Trump's peace plan*

There is a turning point in the Palestinian position toward the peace plan between Israel and the Palestinians initiated by the Trump government. Nabil Abu Rudaina, Palestinian Information Minister and senior spokesman, told foreign correspondents in Ramallah that the PA was prepared to maintain an open mind regarding the American plan, provided that the plan met all Palestinian demands - even if Donald Trump did not explicitly abolish American recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. He was quoted by the Bloomberg news agency.

Until now, the Palestinians have boycotted the peace process because of their declared belief that the United States can not be a fair mediator following Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem and transfer the US embassy to Israel. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas severed all diplomatic contacts between the PA and Washington in December 2017, following the American declaration of recognition.

In practice, the PA's position was that it was unwilling to discuss the peace plan as long as American recognition of Jerusalem was in force. Abu Rudeina's remarks may indicate a change in this position.

If the American peace plan supports a Palestinian state in the pre-Six-Day War borders, whose capital is East Jerusalem, "we will be ready to sit down and negotiate immediately," said Abu Rudeina.

According to him, if the peace plan includes these positions (ie, a Palestinian state and a capital in East Jerusalem), it means that in practice Trump withdraws from support for the idea that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, even if he does not explicitly state this.

Abu Rudeineh's remarks are particularly significant in view of the White House's intention to report to certain Arab countries soon on the economic plan that will accompany the peace initiative between Israel and the Palestinians.

A senior White House official told "Globes" that Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and senior advisor, and Jason Greenblatt, the president's representative for Israeli-Palestinian contacts, will visit Bahrain, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates The United Arab Emirates, Qatar and perhaps two other states, and will present their rulers with "elements" of the American economic plan for the region.

But the official stressed that the economic plan would only work if the countries of the region supported it. "This is a very important part of the equation," he stressed.

"The countries in the region will not support the economic plan without first being sure they are ready to support the political plan, and we recognize that," said the White House official. "I am certain that in one form or another the support for the economic plan will depend on the sense of the countries in the region that they are comfortable with the plan politically."

"This is not what we call economic peace," the official added. "We take the two aspects of the political and economic initiative very seriously, and we understand that if the political aspect is not solid enough, the economic aspect will have no meaning, but at the same time, the political aspect will not succeed without a proper economic plan."

Two senior White House officials told CNN that while Kushner and Greenblatt would examine the extent to which the countries in the region supported the economic plan, they would not ask for solid financial commitments based on the understanding that these countries would first want to see the political plan.

According to them, the US will also help finance the final economic package, but only with the Middle East countries will they also participate in the financing.

Globes : *A reversal of the Palestinian position: Open to Trump's peace plan*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Meaning?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*First wheat harvest in a decade for farmers close to Israeli border *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Gaza Caliphate: New fashion store for Hitler Youth 
*
A clothing store in Gaza City named Hitler 2 is displaying mannequins with knives strapped to their hands as an homage to the upsurge in stabbing attacks on Israelis by Palestinians.

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh: Mandatory Palestine prior to 1939 Opposition to British policy and Zionist*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Leila Farsakh: Mandatory Palestine prior to 1939 Opposition to British policy and Zionist*
> 
> **



We both know why she never mentions the Arab Pogroms against their Jewish neighbors before 1939,
G-d forbid she'll have to take responsibility for another failed genocide.

Arabs didn't oppose Britain, they fought on their side to occupy the land,
both Arabs and Brits got their asses kicked, yet Brits don't whine.

Q. Were Jihadis always such pathetic losers?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Auditions for acting drama class?
Next time put the Swastika on the forehead.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Q.Is there a point in attempting to stab a policeman?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Why is she holding a flag of  the invading Islamic Caliphates?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Lashing is a common thing in Sharia run shitholes for men caught watching pornography.
Gays are simply thrown from rooftops.

Q. Are You pushing for the same in the US?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian TV show: "Jews pass on evil in their genes, humanity will never be able to live with them"*

Who would not take a break from stoning one of the wives just to curse the Jews, right?
There're "national" priorities of course - Jews first target, then Christians, then women and gays.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*POET IN ANDALUCIA: Nathalie Handal*


----------



## rylah

Counting "great satans"...international satellites reported a global record low in transmissions of complaints and whining noises for the next hour, until someone pointed out that uncle Franklin had long side-locks...


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes and?

Some men walking along a path by a wall.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



So why are they smiling at the IDF guy?


----------



## Moonglow

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why are they smiling at the IDF guy?
Click to expand...

He looks funny.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

Moonglow said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why are they smiling at the IDF guy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He looks funny.
Click to expand...


So do you.


----------



## Moonglow

Mindful said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why are they smiling at the IDF guy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He looks funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So do you.
Click to expand...

That's why no one takes me seriously.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I always think → *"context"* with these things _(types of photo's)_. 

All Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), and the associates, donors and contributors are in contravention of Islamic Teachings → "if any Muslim kills an innocent person, that Muslim has committed a grave sin," has been lost in terms of the Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter.  

The violence  cannot be justified "in the name of Islam."  And everyone knows this.  And the propaganda pressed by the HoAP that essentially argue that it is OK to kill any 

*(COMMENT)*

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA (AMC), is not an enemy of the US or Israel.  Their entire take on the Israeli - Palestinian and the associated Jihad is quite uniquely tied to Islamic teachings.   The AMC is not exactly supporting the US and Israel, but they are not advocating violence.

◈ _The *Palestinian Authority is inciting the current wave of violence * through its official media. Jews and Americans are the prime targets. _◈​
◈_   Just days after its much-vaunted reconciliation pact with Mahmoud Abbas's PLO, Hamas's official TV channel aired a *children's program in which viewers were encouraged to "kill the Jews*".  _◈​
Distorted teachings by extremists represent a threat that generates fear and Islamophobia worldwide.  That includes HoAP activities.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek - A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ya Falastinia | Yalalan Band & Eskenderella Band*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*WAJIB | Annemarie Jacir and Saleh Bakri interview*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Artist Emily Jacir Brings the Palestinian Experience to the Venice Biennale*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir on President Trump's Jerusalem declaration and the state of cinema in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Love their Costumes!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*
> 
> **



Senior Hamas official, Fathi Hammad recently declared their short term goals:

Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022
From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate

*Q. If she "hearted" ISIS or the KKK would You be as supportive?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar's arrest condemned by Palestinian groups*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khalida Jarrar's arrest condemned by Palestinian groups*
> 
> **



One is an ISIS supporter, the other is a leader of a suicide bombers.
Who's next Charles Manson and his happy dwarves?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*DEBATE: How to Solve the Israel-Palestine Conflict: 0, 1 , or 2 State Solution?*


**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *DEBATE: How to Solve the Israel-Palestine Conflict: 0, 1 , or 2 State Solution?*
> 
> 
> **



By getting these opportunist opinionated asses out of the daily life of the people involved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Janna Jihad ❤️ Let's make her dream come true… visit Janna’s page, link in description*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Janna Jihad ❤️ Let's make her dream come true… visit Janna’s page, link in description*
> 
> **



My dream is that her mother
stops posting instructions to murder on social media.

Isn't it her uncle, the chief Sharia judge, under whom gays are executed in public?


----------



## Mindful

*Hamas, Islamic Jihad War Crimes Against Children and Women*
*by Bassam Tawil
*

*Hamas, Islamic Jihad War Crimes Against Children and Women*


It is worth noting that Hamas and  Islamic Jihad members who were killed while participating in the violence near the Gaza-Israel border did not come there dressed in military uniforms or carrying their weapons. Instead, the Hamas and Islamic Jihad men participated in the weekly protests dressed in civilian clothes. They pretended they were ordinary and innocent civilians protesting against the economic crisis in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.



While they are in Cairo, the Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders continue to send thousands of women and children to engage in violent attacks on Israeli soldiers. These leaders do not care about the safety or welfare of their women and children. On the contrary; the more dead women and children, the better. That way, they can blame Israel for killing innocent civilians and incite more Palestinians to join the jihad against Jews.


Those who are encouraging women and children to take part in a violent confrontation with the Israeli army should be held accountable for war crimes. It is time for the international community to call on Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the other terrorist groups in the Gaza Strip to stop hiding behind women and children and to stop using them as human shields in their jihad to eliminate Israel.






Pictured: A group of Palestinians during a riot at the border fence with Israel on May 14, 2018. Two of the young men are preparing to attack Israeli soldiers with slingshots. (Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images)

In recent weeks, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other Palestinian terrorist groups have been sending thousands of women and children to the border with Israel to participate in the violence. The groups have been encouraging the children and women to throw rocks, explosive devices and firebombs at Israeli soldiers. They have also been encouraging the women and children to try to infiltrate the border by damaging the security fence.
The latest victim of Hamas's cynical exploitation and brainwashing of children took place February 8, during violent demonstrations along the Gaza-Israel border. Hassan Shalabi, a 14-year-old boy from the Gaza Strip, was among thousands of Palestinian children and women who were dispatched by Hamas to the border to participate in violent attacks against Israeli soldiers.


_ Bassam Tawil is an Arab Muslim based in the Middle East._


----------



## rylah




----------



## Mindful

What's funny about _that, _Tinmore?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*CAIR-Chicago 15th Annual Banquet: Rashida Tlaib*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib Arrested At "Fight For $15" Rally In Detroit*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*night raids in nabi saleh Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli forces kill 21-year-old Ezzaddin Tamimi in Nabi Saleh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian chef Joudie Kalla puts Palestine on the culinary map with new cookbook*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings Official Video*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Remi Kanazi This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings Official Video*
> 
> **



He is offended people oppose the public execution of gays,
or the demand for a Judenrhein state?

The question is important for a correct medical prescription.


----------



## rylah

*"Apes and Pigs and Slaves...these are the Jews" - Palestinian TV preacher*

Elect him for a seat in the Congress as a Democrat...oh wait...

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Disappearing Palestine with Ash Sarkar and Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*In In-Depth Conversation On U.S. Middle-East Policy with Dr. Rashid Khalidi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Disappearing Palestine with Ash Sarkar and Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*
> 
> **



*"Not Factually Accurate"*

MSNBC apologizes for using ridiculous Pallywood lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh give me a break, that's one neighborhood from where Hamas launches all its operations, they always choose the same neighborhood specifically for this propaganda to create a false impression that this is how Gaza looks.

*Gaza Luxury 2016 - what Pallywood hides from the West.*
*








*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




STOP TRYING TO KILL JEWS IN ISRAEL.

There I fixed it for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Breeding Jihad - Minister of Education on a visit to a high school*

Notice the translation from Arabic says: _"the picture is sweet but not for media..."




_


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*



*Pallywood in Crisis: Need New Actors

*


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Blatant lie,  their "refugees" are anyone who was present in the land for merely 2 years,
like illegal Mexicans.

Q. How come majority of their last names mention places outside of Palestine?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



P F Tinmore cut the 
Arabs were slaughtering my people for hundreds of years before Israel was reestablished.
400 years of degradation under Muslim rule turned the land into a garbage dump which my people made bloom in less than 50 years once the Caliphate fell.

Hamas was created by remaining soldiers of the defeated Caliphate army.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Those fine folks were born 4000 year ago? Looking good.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore cut the
> Arabs were slaughtering my people for hundreds of years before Israel was reestablished.
> 400 years of degradation under Muslim rule turned the land into a garbage dump which my people made bloom in less than 50 years once the Caliphate fell.
> 
> Hamas was created by remaining soldiers of the defeated Caliphate army.
Click to expand...

Balderdash, Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



If they stopped murdering their own by the millions, the yearly numbers of refugees would drastically go down.
Majority of refugees today are  created by wars between Muslims themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those fine folks were born 4000 year ago? Looking good.
Click to expand...

Pffft, some people did not get the memo.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore cut the
> Arabs were slaughtering my people for hundreds of years before Israel was reestablished.
> 400 years of degradation under Muslim rule turned the land into a garbage dump which my people made bloom in less than 50 years once the Caliphate fell.
> 
> Hamas was created by remaining soldiers of the defeated Caliphate army.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Balderdash, Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries.
Click to expand...


The Arab Feudal masters always made money of the poor and hungry, it was no different than Europe during the dark ages. They turned it into the most neglected, poor and abandoned places than any other land under the Caliphate rule.

I'm saying this out of pain and sincere love for the land
they've made into a garbage dump for the previous 400 years of neglect and degradation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those fine folks were born 4000 year ago? Looking good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pffft, some people did not get the memo.
Click to expand...


Seriously...


----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  rylah, et al,

I don't understand the context.


rylah said:


>


*(QUESTION)*

Idiots burning an American Flag merely demonstrates what a lack of creativity and inspiration the protesters have.  Burning our flag is done everywhere by loads of counter-culture actors and the Disfranchised.

Is the fool_ (pictured supra) _intend to burn a $100 Bill?   If so, that just releases the US Treasury of the liability of that dollar amount.  All over the world, people and cultures burn the American Flag _(oh how bad a country we are)_ in one hand • and ask for a student visa with the other hand.

Most Respectfully,
R

p.s.

_CAIRO—Arab students constituted nearly 10 percent of total enrollments of international students at U.S. colleges and universities during the 2014-2015 academic year and contributed just under $3 billion to the economy, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce._

_The report found that there were 974,926 international students studying at U.S. colleges and universities last year, of which 89,952 were students from 21 Arab countries._

_SOURECE:  *al-Fanar Media *- Wagdy Sawahel / 27 Nov 2015._


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  rylah, et al,
> 
> I don't understand the context.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 245809
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Idiots burning an American Flag merely demonstrates what a lack of creativity and inspiration the protesters have.  Burning our flag is done everywhere by loads of counter-culture actors and the Disfranchised.
> 
> Is the fool_ (pictured supra) _intend to burn a $100 Bill?   If so, that just releases the US Treasury of the liability of that dollar amount.  All over the world, people and cultures burn the American Flag _(oh how bad a country we are)_ in one hand • and ask for a student visa with the other hand.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> p.s.
> 
> _CAIRO—Arab students constituted nearly 10 percent of total enrollments of international students at U.S. colleges and universities during the 2014-2015 academic year and contributed just under $3 billion to the economy, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce._
> 
> _The report found that there were 974,926 international students studying at U.S. colleges and universities last year, of which 89,952 were students from 21 Arab countries._
> 
> _SOURECE:  *al-Fanar Media *- Wagdy Sawahel / 27 Nov 2015._
Click to expand...

People all over the world like the US. They just hate the assholes in our government.


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  rylah, et al,
> 
> I don't understand the context.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 245809
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Idiots burning an American Flag merely demonstrates what a lack of creativity and inspiration the protesters have.  Burning our flag is done everywhere by loads of counter-culture actors and the Disfranchised.
> 
> Is the fool_ (pictured supra) _intend to burn a $100 Bill?   If so, that just releases the US Treasury of the liability of that dollar amount.  All over the world, people and cultures burn the American Flag _(oh how bad a country we are)_ in one hand • and ask for a student visa with the other hand.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> p.s.
> 
> _CAIRO—Arab students constituted nearly 10 percent of total enrollments of international students at U.S. colleges and universities during the 2014-2015 academic year and contributed just under $3 billion to the economy, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce._
> 
> _The report found that there were 974,926 international students studying at U.S. colleges and universities last year, of which 89,952 were students from 21 Arab countries._
> 
> _SOURECE:  *al-Fanar Media *- Wagdy Sawahel / 27 Nov 2015._
Click to expand...


They publicly burn the American flags when they receive US aid.
When they receive the same $$ from Qatar these are the pictures flooding the media:


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  rylah, et al,
> 
> I don't understand the context.
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 245809
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Idiots burning an American Flag merely demonstrates what a lack of creativity and inspiration the protesters have.  Burning our flag is done everywhere by loads of counter-culture actors and the Disfranchised.
> 
> Is the fool_ (pictured supra) _intend to burn a $100 Bill?   If so, that just releases the US Treasury of the liability of that dollar amount.  All over the world, people and cultures burn the American Flag _(oh how bad a country we are)_ in one hand • and ask for a student visa with the other hand.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> p.s.
> 
> _CAIRO—Arab students constituted nearly 10 percent of total enrollments of international students at U.S. colleges and universities during the 2014-2015 academic year and contributed just under $3 billion to the economy, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce._
> 
> _The report found that there were 974,926 international students studying at U.S. colleges and universities last year, of which 89,952 were students from 21 Arab countries._
> 
> _SOURECE:  *al-Fanar Media *- Wagdy Sawahel / 27 Nov 2015._
Click to expand...












Then You see this and wonder if someone dropped them on the head at birth:

*PALESTINIANS IN GAZA ATTACK QATARI ENVOY WITH STONES AFTER $15M. PAYMENT*


----------



## rylah

Palestinian Differences Scuttle Moscow Declaration

Disagreements between Palestinian factions have hindered the adoption of the “Moscow Declaration” following a failure to agree on its final draft.

The head of Fatah delegation to the meetings, Azzam Al-Ahmad apologized in public to Russia as an organizer of the event.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



That’s because it doesn’t exist


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.
Click to expand...


 Why? Isn’t what the Palestinians say about Israel? 
  Unsubstantiated Palestinian BS talking point


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Isn’t what the Palestinians say about Israel?
> Unsubstantiated Palestinian BS talking point
Click to expand...

What have the Palestinians said about Israel that is not true?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Isn’t what the Palestinians say about Israel?
> Unsubstantiated Palestinian BS talking point
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What have the Palestinians said about Israel that is not true?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Isn’t what the Palestinians say about Israel?
> Unsubstantiated Palestinian BS talking point
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What have the Palestinians said about Israel that is not true?
Click to expand...


Palestinians believe that Israel doesn’t exist? Then they are just proving they have no interest in the “ Two State Solution “ which obviously means they can’t blame Israel for that failure.


----------



## RoccoR

.RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

   Important aspects for respect in the process 

Values ✦ Character ✦ Common Sense ✦ Demonstrated Respect for People ✦ Demonstrated Respect for Other Players ✦ 

When looking at Soccer Players and their impact on international politics, it is politics



P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpts of Major Points:
> 
> •   Palestine Women's National Football Team
> •   Political Causes
> •   Worldwide​
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because it doesn’t exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli BS talking point.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*


*•  5 Instagram Strategy Tips from Bloomberg  •*​
◈  Using an International Sports Athlete as the delivery system for a political message is tricky business; even if it is only the appearance of politicalization.  The International Games are suppose to be apolitical.  Afterall, the "apolitical nature" of the international games was the priciple argument used by the Arab Palestinian Olympic Committee to alter the openning ceremonies which included a "Moment of Silence" in rememberence of the _(Summer)_ 1972 Arab Palestinian _(Black September)_ Attack in the Olympic Village (Munich) in which the attack was the trigger percipitated the initiation of Operations Baynet and Wrath of God _(extrajudicial Programs);_ which operate still today in its changed forms. 

◈ In order for a player in the Palestine Women's National Football Team (PWNFT _- created in 2003_) to be interewsting and effective, the PWNFT must be at least marginally successful.  But internationally the PWNFT, from 2003 when it was created - through the present (2019), has not qualified for competition in the "World Cup."  Simply uncompetative.  During the same period, the PWWNFT did not apply to complete in the Summer Olympics; again not demonstrating any competitiveness to be noticed.  The only areas in which the PWNFT showed any success at all was in the 2010 _(8 years ago)_ when it achieved 4th Place in the 20th Arabian Gulf Cup*.*

◈ The PWNFT has not made any international appeaences in eight years.  No impression of a worldwide nature can be presented if there is no presence worldwide or exposure out of success worldwide.   ​
You are always serving-up this "Israeli BS talking point" response as if it is some sort of legitimate criticism.  Where are these "Talking Points" so that we all can recognize them?  As a question, what makes "a topic that invites discussion or argument" so wrong?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Treated water from the plant can irrigate 1,730 acres of dry land annually.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Arab Stories Bay Area - Lara Kiswani*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Al-Quds Day, New York: Nerdeen Kiswani, NYC SJP*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Arab Stories Bay Area - Lara Kiswani*



The irony, Kiswani are Indians-Pakistanis.

Pallywood...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Part of the "Deal of the Century."


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Al-Quds Day, New York: Nerdeen Kiswani, NYC SJP*
> 
> **



Boy what a hysteria, they want 48 because they haven't been sore losers enough ever since their last attempt to drive the Jews into the sea? Not to mention that in 48 they had zero effective political control over any territory west of Jordan.

The dumber the more useful?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A conversation with Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib after a month on Capitol Hill*

**


----------



## Mindful

*Smuggling Weapons From Jordan Into the West Bank?*







Members of the Palestinian Authority security forces disperse a Hamas demonstration in the West Bank city of Hebron, Dec. 14, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Mussa Qawasma / File.

_JNS.org – _Reports emerged in early February that Fatah’s Tanzim military arm in the West Bank has been purchasing weapons smuggled from Syria through Jordan to arm itself for the succession battle when Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas’s rule comes to an end.

The reports may still be unconfirmed, but we should take note of what is going on in southern Syria, which could grow into dangerous complications between Jordan and Israel.

Iran is entrenching itself in Syria and concentrating on the south of the country along the border with Jordan, not far from Israel. In contrast to reports of Assad’s army taking control of the area, the true situation is far from that. The Sunni resistance forces are still strong and active.

The expected US withdrawal from the Tanf border crossing between southern Syria with Iraq has provoked a race for control of the crossing. The competition even involves various divisions of the Syrian army, who do not hesitate to shoot each other. For them, this is a struggle over the smuggling routes between Syria and Iraq.


Is Iran Smuggling Weapons From Jordan Into the West Bank?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Teen Artist Denied Visas to France, UK to Attend Exhibits of Her Own Work*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Malaka Mohammed, a blogger from Gaza*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh, "What the War Machine Means to Me"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*UN Speech Farah Nabulsi May 2017 Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Daoud Nasser-Tent of Nations Testimony-Harbor United Methodist Church*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A church on Mount olive, Palestine.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mitri Raheb Presentation at the National Press Club*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Apartheid Week Sydney 2012 - Samah Sabawi 'Normalize This!'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Seriously?  So your complaint about Jews is that they won't act like the dogs that they are?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Myth of the "Clash of Civilizations". Edward Said*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why was the "Palestinian" sleeping in the Jewish house?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Myth of the "Clash of Civilizations". Edward Said*
> 
> **



I agree, Muslim civilization is a myth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SAMAR Media - This is Palestine - Najla Said (ENG)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Larissa Sansour, creating a Palestinian state with science fiction.*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.


----------



## Mindful

In communities throughout the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, a surprising degree of luxury exists alongside the poverty. This study includes “A Photo Album of Palestinian Luxury in the West Bank,” offering a more complete picture of living standards there. The truth is that alongside the slums of the old refugee camps, which the Palestinian government has done little to rehabilitate, a parallel Palestinian society is emerging.

Luxury Alongside Poverty in the Palestinian Authority - occupied Palestinian territory


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
Click to expand...


Here's a linky. One of many.

There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
Click to expand...

So you post an Israeli propaganda site.

Priceless.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


*So you post an Israeli propaganda site.*

Outrageous!
Only Muslims are allowed to post propaganda sites.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
Click to expand...


What was it you didn't like about it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was it you didn't like about it?
Click to expand...

I was hoping for something more neutral.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense. A work of fiction for a fictional state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was it you didn't like about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was hoping for something more neutral.
Click to expand...


Of course. lol


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was it you didn't like about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was hoping for something more neutral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. lol
Click to expand...

Indeed, I have already heard Israel's talking points a gazillion times.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a linky. One of many.
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> So you post an Israeli propaganda site.
> 
> Priceless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was it you didn't like about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was hoping for something more neutral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course. lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, I have already heard Israel's talking points a gazillion times.
Click to expand...


As many as that?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



You do realize no-one actually wears those, do You?
Well at least not until kuffar money is the target...


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Haters Gonna Hate: How to Manage the Opposition by Linda Sarsour *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Haters Gonna Hate: How to Manage the Opposition by Linda Sarsour *



The misogynist who suggested removing the genitalia of women who oppose her talks about hate?
The Charles Manson prison cell in the madhouse seems fit for that kind of "opposition".


----------



## rylah

*Hamas - Fatah War Continues*

Fatah terrorists in the Gaza Strip, controlled by Hamas, held a demonstration in support of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and the legitimacy of his regime.

Atef Abu Saif, spokesman for the Fatah movement, said that the demonstrations were also intended to express opposition to Israel's policies and to "plots" aimed at eliminating the Palestinian problem (the American peace initiative known as the "Deal of the century").

Abu Saif condemned the Hamas movement for the forcible suppression of the demonstrators in the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza and the arrest of Fatah activists.

The official Palestinian news agency Wafa reported that Hamas activists attacked the participants in the demonstration organized by Fatah with batons and arrested several of them.

The tensions between Fatah and Hamas have escalated recently in the context of disagreements over national reconciliation. Hamas undermines the legitimacy of the Abu Mazen regime and demands that general elections be held for the PLO institutions and the Palestinian Authority.

Hamas terrorists attacks on Fatah terrorists in Gaza, is another expression of the deep rift between the PA that controls the cities in the West Bank and Hamas that governs the Gaza Strip.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where's that, Tinmore?


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's that, Tinmore?
Click to expand...

I recognize that. It is Pallywood .


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*
> 
> **


The audacity of the colonizers saying that THEY have been colonized  !!!!!

Arabs, whether Christian or Muslims ARE the invaders, since the 7th century, and SHE knows it.   Most Arab Muslims and Christians KNOW that they are the invading power, ANYWHERE outside of the Arabian Peninsula.


Yes, the AUDACITY to want the indigenous Jews to give way to the colonizers, be them Arabs, Turks, or Europeans on their own ancient homeland.


Judea belongs to the Jews.

Arabia belongs to the Arabs.

Syria to the Assyrians.

Morocco belongs to the Berbers.


That is how it works.


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> The audacity of the colonizers saying that THEY have been colonized  !!!!!
> 
> Arabs, whether Christian or Muslims ARE the invaders, since the 7th century, and SHE knows it.   Most Arab Muslims and Christians KNOW that they are the invading power, ANYWHERE outside of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> 
> Yes, the AUDACITY to want the indigenous Jews to give way to the colonizers, be them Arabs, Turks, or Europeans on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> Judea belongs to the Jews.
> 
> Arabia belongs to the Arabs.
> 
> Syria to the Assyrians.
> 
> Morocco belongs to the Berbers.
> 
> 
> That is how it works.
Click to expand...


The energy it must take to twist the narrative.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> The audacity of the colonizers saying that THEY have been colonized  !!!!!
> 
> Arabs, whether Christian or Muslims ARE the invaders, since the 7th century, and SHE knows it.   Most Arab Muslims and Christians KNOW that they are the invading power, ANYWHERE outside of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> 
> Yes, the AUDACITY to want the indigenous Jews to give way to the colonizers, be them Arabs, Turks, or Europeans on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> Judea belongs to the Jews.
> 
> Arabia belongs to the Arabs.
> 
> Syria to the Assyrians.
> 
> Morocco belongs to the Berbers.
> 
> 
> That is how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The energy it must take to twist the narrative.
Click to expand...

And Dr Rabab Abdulhadi kicks butt.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> The audacity of the colonizers saying that THEY have been colonized  !!!!!
> 
> Arabs, whether Christian or Muslims ARE the invaders, since the 7th century, and SHE knows it.   Most Arab Muslims and Christians KNOW that they are the invading power, ANYWHERE outside of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> 
> Yes, the AUDACITY to want the indigenous Jews to give way to the colonizers, be them Arabs, Turks, or Europeans on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> Judea belongs to the Jews.
> 
> Arabia belongs to the Arabs.
> 
> Syria to the Assyrians.
> 
> Morocco belongs to the Berbers.
> 
> 
> That is how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The energy it must take to twist the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Dr Rabab Abdulhadi kicks butt.
Click to expand...


That means nothing to me.

I've never heard of him.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr Rabab Abdulhadi on Teaching Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> The audacity of the colonizers saying that THEY have been colonized  !!!!!
> 
> Arabs, whether Christian or Muslims ARE the invaders, since the 7th century, and SHE knows it.   Most Arab Muslims and Christians KNOW that they are the invading power, ANYWHERE outside of the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> 
> Yes, the AUDACITY to want the indigenous Jews to give way to the colonizers, be them Arabs, Turks, or Europeans on their own ancient homeland.
> 
> 
> Judea belongs to the Jews.
> 
> Arabia belongs to the Arabs.
> 
> Syria to the Assyrians.
> 
> Morocco belongs to the Berbers.
> 
> 
> That is how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The energy it must take to twist the narrative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Dr Rabab Abdulhadi kicks butt.
Click to expand...

She lies because that is what she has been taught.  She is an Arab Christian or Muslim who has been taught that Jews have no rights on Muslim conquered land.

Jews must be seen as invaders, colonizers.

And it is the other way around.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another liar where the Jews come from Europe and the Arabs come from the region called Palestine.

Not one word is true.

She most clearly does not know or care about the 1300 years previous of Arab Muslim subjugation of the Jewish indigenous people of the land they invaded in the 7th Century.

A speech made for useful idiots, by by a useful idiot.

"They had never left" -  What a joke.

It is the Jews who never left their ancient homeland and were always present there, no matter how many times the Arabs or Turks attacked and murdered them.


Stop the Madness


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another liar where the Jews come from Europe and the Arabs come from the region called Palestine.
> 
> Not one word is true.
> 
> She most clearly does not know or care about the 1300 years previous of Arab Muslim subjugation of the Jewish indigenous people of the land they invaded in the 7th Century.
> 
> A speech made for useful idiots, by by a useful idiot.
> 
> "They had never left" -  What a joke.
> 
> It is the Jews who never left their ancient homeland and were always present there, no matter how many times the Arabs or Turks attacked and murdered them.
> 
> 
> Stop the Madness
Click to expand...

You keep banging away on an issue that is not contested.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Islamophobia as 'Everyday Doing" - Randa Abdul-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 14): Prisons, Propaganda & Oppression #1 - Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 1): Introductory Remarks - Fatin Al Tamimi & Mayzouna Abushrour*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 2): Welcoming Speech by Mícheál Mac Donncha, Lord Mayor of Dublin*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 3): The Nakba in the Israeli Mind - Eitan Bronstein Aparicio*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * The Nakba in the Israeli Mind *


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...

Al Husseini  ????

Remember him?   

No war against the Jews recovering their ancient homeland would have happened if it had not been for him starting riots in 1920 and keeping all peaceful Arabs from achieving a peaceful co-existence with the indigenous Jews on their own ancient land, 
had it not been for this first Modern Leader of the Arab Muslim Jihad against the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Return Is Our Right And Our Destiny - Lubnah Shomali*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Husseini  ????
> 
> Remember him?
> 
> No war against the Jews recovering their ancient homeland would have happened if it had not been for him starting riots in 1920 and keeping all peaceful Arabs from achieving a peaceful co-existence with the indigenous Jews on their own ancient land,
> had it not been for this first Modern Leader of the Arab Muslim Jihad against the Jews.
Click to expand...

Peaceful co-existence is not possible with a settler colonial project.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Husseini  ????
> 
> Remember him?
> 
> No war against the Jews recovering their ancient homeland would have happened if it had not been for him starting riots in 1920 and keeping all peaceful Arabs from achieving a peaceful co-existence with the indigenous Jews on their own ancient land,
> had it not been for this first Modern Leader of the Arab Muslim Jihad against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peaceful co-existence is not possible with a settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


*Peaceful co-existence is not possible with a settler colonial project. *

Peaceful co-existence is not possible with Islam.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...


Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
Tell that to all the Holocaust survivors who heard the Palestinian calls to genocide on Berlin Radio
Tell that to all the Palestinian Jews whom Arabs murdered, raped and expelled.

If they did the same to their fellow Arabs they'd be less than a wet mark on a toilet floor.
They're very lucky for having Jews as their enemy, any other nation would pay Your Jihado-Nazi filth in full.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> Tell that to all the Holocaust survivors who heard the Palestinian calls to genocide on Berlin Radio
> Tell that to all the Palestinian Jews whom Arabs murdered, raped and expelled.
> 
> If they did the same to their fellow Arabs they'd be less than a wet mark on a toilet floor.
> They're very lucky for having Jews as their enemy, any other nation would pay these Jihado-Nazi filth in full.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled


Are you claiming that the Palestinians went to Iraq and expelled the Jews?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Husseini  ????
> 
> Remember him?
> 
> No war against the Jews recovering their ancient homeland would have happened if it had not been for him starting riots in 1920 and keeping all peaceful Arabs from achieving a peaceful co-existence with the indigenous Jews on their own ancient land,
> had it not been for this first Modern Leader of the Arab Muslim Jihad against the Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peaceful co-existence is not possible with a settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> Tell that to all the Holocaust survivors who heard the Palestinian calls to genocide on Berlin Radio
> Tell that to all the Palestinian Jews whom Arabs murdered, raped and expelled.
> 
> If they did the same to their fellow Arabs they'd be less than a wet mark on a toilet floor.
> They're very lucky for having Jews as their enemy, any other nation would pay these Jihado-Nazi filth in full.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you claiming that the Palestinians went to Iraq and expelled the Jews?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> Tell that to all the Holocaust survivors who heard the Palestinian calls to genocide on Berlin Radio
> Tell that to all the Palestinian Jews whom Arabs murdered, raped and expelled.
> 
> If they did the same to their fellow Arabs they'd be less than a wet mark on a toilet floor.
> They're very lucky for having Jews as their enemy, any other nation would pay these Jihado-Nazi filth in full.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you claiming that the Palestinians went to Iraq and expelled the Jews?
Click to expand...

All it took was ONE Palestinian Arab to go to Iraq and start a riot there in 1941 which killed around 280 Jews and injured thousands others.

And that has been told again and again, but like everything else, you reject the historical facts about it as if it never happened.

So, you end up laughing yourself to the ground like the greatest fool you are.

Here is the whole story of the Arab Palestinian Hero named Al Husseini and his dealings in Iraq :

June 1-2, 1941 The Farhud - How the Arab Leader in Palestine attacked Jews in Iraq


Laugh, Jew Hater, laugh, at how he got away with murdering Jews on their ancient homeland and in Iraq.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> Tell that to all the Holocaust survivors who heard the Palestinian calls to genocide on Berlin Radio
> Tell that to all the Palestinian Jews whom Arabs murdered, raped and expelled.
> 
> If they did the same to their fellow Arabs they'd be less than a wet mark on a toilet floor.
> They're very lucky for having Jews as their enemy, any other nation would pay these Jihado-Nazi filth in full.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to all the Iraqi Jew whom they've expelled
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you claiming that the Palestinians went to Iraq and expelled the Jews?
Click to expand...

*IRAQI AUTHOR DR. RASHID AL-KHAYOUN: IRAQI JEWS WERE DRIVEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY BY PAN-ARAB EXTREMISTS, LED BY NAZI ALLY, MUFTI HAJ AMIN AL-HUSSEINI*

*Interviewer*: What, Amin Al-Husseini banished the Jews of Iraq to Palestine?
*Dr. Rashid Al-Khayoun:* Yes, Amin Al-Husseini played a significant role, along with German Nazism, in dragging the Jews out of Iraq.
*Interviewer*: How?
*Dr. Rashid Al-Khayoun: *In the days of the "Farhoud" pogroms, at the end of May and the beginning of June 1941 – which was called the revolution of Rashid Ali Al-Kilani... This is well known. The "heroes" of the Farhoud were Amin Al-Husseini, and some Syrian and Palestinian teachers. I am not accusing these people of collaborating with Israel, but I am accusing them of political stupidity.





Yes, directly responsible for the Farhoud Pogrom, I don't know why are You so happy or surprised,
Arabs did the same to Jews in Syria-Palestine for decades before that.
But I'm sure You already knew that, simply can't be honest.

Now go back to whining at Your Jihado-Nazi degenerate failures.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Where is this picture from?  Really.

And do not compare Jews who did nothing against their Arab invader hosts in the "Arab Lands", riot against them, murder them, try to steal land if not the whole area ........with the Arabs in Mandate for Palestine who rioted against the Indigenous Jews who wanted to recreate their nation ON their ancient homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow.  If you have any doubt AT ALL that anti-Zionism is antisemitism just watch that video.

Quote: "...making linkages between global struggles and the way that Zionism historically and today plays a role in the oppression of people beyond Palestine..."

In other words, she is saying that a national liberation movement of a small number of people, who experienced a widespread genocide which reduced their numbers to nearly half, in a tiny tiny piece of land which is their historical homeland is an actor historically (!) and today in global oppression.  Wow.  Just wow.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Oh.  And that people with Zionist beliefs do not recognize people's basic humanity.

In other words, MY national liberation movement and desire for self-determination as an Arab Palestinian is legitimate and good, while the national liberation movement of the Jewish people should not only be rejected, but should found to be incompatible with fundamental human rights, AND is an act of evil which rejects the existence of humanity.

Ugh.  Gross.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Profile of Rashida Tlaib | The First Palestinian-American in Congress*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



If the Arabs spent more time and money doing the above, instead of digging tunnels and building rockets, they'd be better off, don't you think?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Totally manipulative.

How low you sink !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Give me a break,

Gazan children are living in better conditions than majority of kids in the world, compared to the rest of Asia and the eastern world their position is that of slightly above middle class.
The money invested in these children could feed several nations and rebuild a few countries in Africa.


THIS is Gaza


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



In Israel, Where Else...

Kim Yehezkel Levengrond HY"D was murdered in a terror attack. 
Kim studied to become a lawyer and passed the bar exams successfully.
Her family came to receive it in her name at a new graduate ceremony.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Dr. Leila Al Marayati*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally manipulative.
> 
> How low you sink !
Click to expand...


Why? It’s actually quite amusing with the usual hypocrisy


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Stay human - Capitolo 8 - Huwaida Arraf*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

“When a Palestinian medical student graduates she is told she can’t legally work in medicine” - MAP News - Medical Aid for Palestinians

_Alia*, a Palestinian refugee studying to become a doctor at a Lebanese university, spoke to MAP about the barriers to becoming a doctor in Lebanon._

_Her story illustrates Medical Aid for Palestinians’ (MAP) new report, Health in Exile, which outlines how 70 years of displacement and marginalisation have undermined the health and dignity of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. Their dismal socioeconomic conditions and the significant restrictions placed on their rights have created a situation of perpetual humanitarian crisis and dependency on aid and a Palestinian-focused healthcare system which is close to collapse._

_Without the freedom to earn an adequate living, a person’s ability to secure adequate shelter, food, healthcare and other basic needs for themselves and their families is severely undermined. *For Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, however, a series of practical and legal barriers are imposed on their right to work.*_

_As many *as 39 professions are currently barred to Palestinian refugees, including all major healthcare jobs*. Most Palestinians work in low paid, unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.  Many of those with healthcare qualifications – such as medicine or nursing – work illegally in Lebanese hospitals, without contracts, security or benefits. Those working inside the camps, such as in Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) hospitals, have low wages and few opportunities for development._


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Palestinian suspect arrested for murder of Israeli teen Ori Ansbacher

Who cares?  I don't. This is only one of the thousands of reasons


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where are their husbands?
Off getting their asses kicked by the Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> “When a Palestinian medical student graduates she is told she can’t legally work in medicine” - MAP News - Medical Aid for Palestinians
> 
> _Alia*, a Palestinian refugee studying to become a doctor at a Lebanese university, spoke to MAP about the barriers to becoming a doctor in Lebanon._
> 
> _Her story illustrates Medical Aid for Palestinians’ (MAP) new report, Health in Exile, which outlines how 70 years of displacement and marginalisation have undermined the health and dignity of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. Their dismal socioeconomic conditions and the significant restrictions placed on their rights have created a situation of perpetual humanitarian crisis and dependency on aid and a Palestinian-focused healthcare system which is close to collapse._
> 
> _Without the freedom to earn an adequate living, a person’s ability to secure adequate shelter, food, healthcare and other basic needs for themselves and their families is severely undermined. *For Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, however, a series of practical and legal barriers are imposed on their right to work.*_
> 
> _As many *as 39 professions are currently barred to Palestinian refugees, including all major healthcare jobs*. Most Palestinians work in low paid, unskilled or semi-skilled jobs.  Many of those with healthcare qualifications – such as medicine or nursing – work illegally in Lebanese hospitals, without contracts, security or benefits. Those working inside the camps, such as in Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) hospitals, have low wages and few opportunities for development._


That's why they need to go back home.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Palestinian official: Nikki Haley is not world's 'schoolmarm' *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>




Looks happy and content.


----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Lying for the Muslim dream.

They come to defend their ancestral home from Muslims and Christians who want to take away the Jewish ancient homeland for good, as they have 78% of it already, and leave the Jews with nothing but begging on their knees for their lives.

Just as it was in the good ol' "We are the Masters of Jews" days.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Islamic Relief USA - Talking With Mohammad Assaf*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks happy and content.
Click to expand...

A prime example of the starving and terrorized Palestinians by the Israeli "regime".


----------



## Mindful

Sixties Fan said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks happy and content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A prime example of the starving and terrorized Palestinians by the Israeli "regime".
Click to expand...



Exactly.


----------



## Mindful

*The 2019 Pallywood Oscars*
By
Aussie Dave
 -

Last night were the 2019 Oscars.

Which got me thinking – what the world is really lacking are an Oscars Awards for the palestinians, which is a travesty of justice given some of the amazing performances we have seen.

So without further ado, here are my winners for the Pallywood Oscars.

Best Actor:


Best Supporting Actor:

Click the link.

The 2019 Pallywood Oscars


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



What is this?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?
Click to expand...


Looks like a class for jihadis.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?
Click to expand...


I think it is a complaint that foreign countries like France should be able to build school houses without permits and permission from the sovereign government of land.  

Kinda like Israel should be able to build school houses in the French countryside without a building permit and permission from France.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Their hair is uncovered.....I can see leg......stone them!!!!


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



You post pictures without any explanations of what they are.  I think this is supposed to show a classroom in the Palestinian areas that was "shot up" by Israeli soldiers.  I think, also, that there is supposedly a hole in the chalkboard.  But this picture looks so obviously photo-shopped that I'm surprised you're not embarrassed to post it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Don't you hate it when Israel responds to your rockets launched from schools?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

Now, all that is missing from all of these photos is the source where they came from to check what some of them are really about.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



What are all those terrorists doing in those pens?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti on the Successes and Challenges of BDS*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Khaled Barakat: Criminalizing People's Liberation Movements. *



Well THIS is interesting as we head into the latest Agenda Item #7 farce at the UN.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel arrests terrorist donkey.*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel arrests terrorist donkey.*



How dare they!!!

That's some Muslim's girlfriend!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Amahl Bishara interviews Palestinian sociologist Salim Tamari*

**


----------



## MJB12741

rylah said:


> *Hamas - Fatah War Continues*
> 
> Fatah terrorists in the Gaza Strip, controlled by Hamas, held a demonstration in support of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and the legitimacy of his regime.
> 
> Atef Abu Saif, spokesman for the Fatah movement, said that the demonstrations were also intended to express opposition to Israel's policies and to "plots" aimed at eliminating the Palestinian problem (the American peace initiative known as the "Deal of the century").
> 
> Abu Saif condemned the Hamas movement for the forcible suppression of the demonstrators in the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza and the arrest of Fatah activists.
> 
> The official Palestinian news agency Wafa reported that Hamas activists attacked the participants in the demonstration organized by Fatah with batons and arrested several of them.
> 
> The tensions between Fatah and Hamas have escalated recently in the context of disagreements over national reconciliation. Hamas undermines the legitimacy of the Abu Mazen regime and demands that general elections be held for the PLO institutions and the Palestinian Authority.
> 
> Hamas terrorists attacks on Fatah terrorists in Gaza, is another expression of the deep rift between the PA that controls the cities in the West Bank and Hamas that governs the Gaza Strip.



Keep it going boys. "Palestine Today."   Wonderful news for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel arrests terrorist donkey.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How dare they!!!
> 
> That's some Muslim's girlfriend!
Click to expand...


Don’t insult the Donkey!!!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



How dare the Israelis have Weedings on Temple Mount! Can you imagine if Israel forbid Arabs within Israel to Worship or get married wherever they choose??


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow.  I don't understand how apparently intelligent people can fall for this transparent inversion of reality.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Judaization! Zionaization! " 
"Jerulasemization!, Templazation!"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Arab minority in Israel what is that....
Weren't half of Israelis Europeans and the other Arabs?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 5): Sumud & Struggle Today #1 - Haneen Zoabi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 6): Sumud & Struggle Today #2 - Jamal Juma'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Such a beautiful bride. You must be very proud.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 7): Sumud & Struggle Today #3 - Mona El Farra*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 8): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #1 - Eamon McMahon*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 9): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #2 - Fatin Al Tamimi*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Dajani Hospital in Jaffa, 1933


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Gaza Kitchen: An Interview with Laila El Haddad*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today 
 ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Just because a cute little sound bite gets published, does mean it is grounded in reality - or true.



P F Tinmore said:


> Truncated: Mural "Resistance is Not Terrorism" with a silhouette of "Dalal al-Maghribi"





> Dalal Mughrabi (Arabic language: دلال المغربي‎, Dalāl al-Muɣrabī; ca. 1959 – 11 March 1978) was a Palestinian militant who was a member of the Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and participated in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre in Israel. *The attack resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.*


*(COMMENT)*

Today in Palestine, the expression "act of terrorism" means criminal acts directed against a State and intended or calculated to create terror in the mindes of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general public *[See the International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)]*

Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians that somehow have come to believe that killing unarmed civilians and children is a courageous act performed proud place act and worthy of a place in Palestinian history.  Nor is it even permissible to incite the people to commit a terrorist act or acts motivated by extremism and intolerance.

These "acts of terrorism" ⟴ irrespective of their motivation, whenever and by whomsoever committed, as one of the most serious threats to peace and security; international law unequivocal condemns all acts, methods and practices of terrorism as criminal and unjustifiable, even if the underlying motivation is resistance.  THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION for any  act  → intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.

Incitement to violence by attempting to promote the idea that the violence is "legal" _(somehow not terrorism) _is illegal on its own.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just because a cute little sound bite gets published, does mean it is grounded in reality - or true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truncated: Mural "Resistance is Not Terrorism" with a silhouette of "Dalal al-Maghribi"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dalal Mughrabi (Arabic language: دلال المغربي‎, Dalāl al-Muɣrabī; ca. 1959 – 11 March 1978) was a Palestinian militant who was a member of the Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and participated in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre in Israel. *The attack resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today in Palestine, the expression "act of terrorism" means criminal acts directed against a State and intended or calculated to create terror in the mindes of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general public *[See the International Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)]*
> 
> Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians that somehow have come to believe that killing unarmed civilians and children is a courageous act performed proud place act and worthy of a place in Palestinian history.  Nor is it even permissible to incite the people to commit a terrorist act or acts motivated by extremism and intolerance.
> 
> These "acts of terrorism" ⟴ irrespective of their motivation, whenever and by whomsoever committed, as one of the most serious threats to peace and security; international law unequivocal condemns all acts, methods and practices of terrorism as criminal and unjustifiable, even if the underlying motivation is resistance.  THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION for any  act  → intended to cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.
> 
> Incitement to violence by attempting to promote the idea that the violence is "legal" _(somehow not terrorism) _is illegal on its own.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians


Where do you get the opinion that the Palestinian's self defense and resistance to occupation are hostile?

Why do you always play the terrorist card on the Palestinians when they are not the aggressor?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*cute Arabic school girls of palestine dance on palestine nationl song *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Concerted attempts to silence criticism of Israel in the U.S” Maria LaHood*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

With you, there is always something that wishes to argue for the "Right to Kill Israelis."  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the opinion that the Palestinian's self-defense and resistance to occupation are hostile?
> 
> Why do you always play the terrorist card on the Palestinians when they are not the aggressor?
Click to expand...

*(BLUF)*

Not all acts of self-defense are a legitimate "resistance against occupation."  When the "resistance against occupation" committed are acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, or represent a grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them _(Collectively Known as Hostile Acts)_ are punishable under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention IV.  

While not all acts of aggression are terrorism, all acts of terrorism are examples of aggression.

Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act - are acts of terrorism.

*(COMMENT)*

There are interlocking and remarkably similar connections between aggression, terrorism and criminal acts taken against the Occupation Force or a state.

_When the Arab Palestinians_ send - on behalf of a State _(the Arab Palestinian People)_ - armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, _(in contemporary terms Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter)_ which carry out acts of armed force against the State of Israel, this is generally referred to as State Sponsored Terrorism.   But it is also, by definition, acts of aggression.  

Similarly, The action of Arab Palestinians in allowing its territory, which it has placed at the disposal of another State (example Iran), to be used for perpetrating an act of aggression against a third State; is also (by definition) an act of aggression.

Also, each time the Hostile Arab Palestinian launched rockets and mortars into Israel, or attempt to breach the border to penetrate Israel is by definition, an act of aggression.

In the past, the Hostile Arab Palestinians have tried to scramble these concepts, turn them around, and then attempt to use them as justification for armed struggle and jihad.  But the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) makes it clear that not only are the acts themselves considered terrorism, but the incitement to perform any such acts are a form of terrorism.

*(LOGIC and RATIONALE)*

*PART ONE:*  On the Question of Hostile Occupation →  A actual definition of an "occupation" _(as in Occupied Territory_) is NOT dependent on the basis of "legal v Illegal" - "Peaceful v Hostile" - "Right v Wrong."  These are merely adjectives that describe the character of the occupation.  An occupation has a definite property of being "placed under the authority of the *hostile army*." 

The law is quite simple, clear and concise:

*Definition of an Occupation*:  '*Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907*'

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - _*Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state*_ - Regulations: Article 42.

Article 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
 The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​

•  *IF* the territory is NOT under the authority of a "Hostile Army" 
•  *THEN* the territory is NOT "Occupied."​*PART TWO:*  On the Question on the Relationship Between Terrorist and Aggressor →

The law is quite simple, clear and concise:

_Article 1 - *Definition of Aggression* - A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974 _
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.​
•  *IF* the use of armed force is NOT against the sovereignty, 
territorial integrity or political independence of another State

•  *THEN* the use of force is NOT an act of aggression.

______________________________________________​
I have, in the past, attempted to break this up into smaller and better digestible nuggets of information.  But I find that opponents and the supporters of Arab Palestinian Terrorism flip the mirror and come back with an approach that does not tie it up into a coherent presentation.  For that reason, I've tried to bring various notions together in a single dose.. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> With you, there is always something that wishes to argue for the "Right to Kill Israelis."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the opinion that the Palestinian's self-defense and resistance to occupation are hostile?
> 
> Why do you always play the terrorist card on the Palestinians when they are not the aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(BLUF)*
> 
> Not all acts of self-defense are a legitimate "resistance against occupation."  When the "resistance against occupation" committed are acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, or represent a grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them _(Collectively Known as Hostile Acts)_ are punishable under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention IV.
> 
> While not all acts of aggression are terrorism, all acts of terrorism are examples of aggression.
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act - are acts of terrorism.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are interlocking and remarkably similar connections between aggression, terrorism and criminal acts taken against the Occupation Force or a state.
> 
> _When the Arab Palestinians_ send - on behalf of a State _(the Arab Palestinian People)_ - armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, _(in contemporary terms Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter)_ which carry out acts of armed force against the State of Israel, this is generally referred to as State Sponsored Terrorism.   But it is also, by definition, acts of aggression.
> 
> Similarly, The action of Arab Palestinians in allowing its territory, which it has placed at the disposal of another State (example Iran), to be used for perpetrating an act of aggression against a third State; is also (by definition) an act of aggression.
> 
> Also, each time the Hostile Arab Palestinian launched rockets and mortars into Israel, or attempt to breach the border to penetrate Israel is by definition, an act of aggression.
> 
> In the past, the Hostile Arab Palestinians have tried to scramble these concepts, turn them around, and then attempt to use them as justification for armed struggle and jihad.  But the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) makes it clear that not only are the acts themselves considered terrorism, but the incitement to perform any such acts are a form of terrorism.
> 
> *(LOGIC and RATIONALE)*
> 
> *PART ONE:*  On the Question of Hostile Occupation →  A actual definition of an "occupation" _(as in Occupied Territory_) is NOT dependent on the basis of "legal v Illegal" - "Peaceful v Hostile" - "Right v Wrong."  These are merely adjectives that describe the character of the occupation.  An occupation has a definite property of being "placed under the authority of the *hostile army*."
> 
> The law is quite simple, clear and concise:
> 
> *Definition of an Occupation*:  '*Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907*'
> 
> Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - _*Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state*_ - Regulations: Article 42.
> 
> Article 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​
> 
> •  *IF* the territory is NOT under the authority of a "Hostile Army"
> •  *THEN* the territory is NOT "Occupied."​*PART TWO:*  On the Question on the Relationship Between Terrorist and Aggressor →
> 
> The law is quite simple, clear and concise:
> 
> _Article 1 - *Definition of Aggression* - A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974 _
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.​
> •  *IF* the use of armed force is NOT against the sovereignty,
> territorial integrity or political independence of another State
> 
> •  *THEN* the use of force is NOT an act of aggression.
> 
> ______________________________________________​
> I have, in the past, attempted to break this up into smaller and better digestible nuggets of information.  But I find that opponents and the supporters of Arab Palestinian Terrorism flip the mirror and come back with an approach that does not tie it up into a coherent presentation.  For that reason, I've tried to bring various notions together in a single dose..
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?

Give me some examples.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> With you, there is always something that wishes to argue for the "Right to Kill Israelis."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere is the definition more applicable than in the application and description of the Hostile Arab Palestinians
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get the opinion that the Palestinian's self-defense and resistance to occupation are hostile?
> 
> Why do you always play the terrorist card on the Palestinians when they are not the aggressor?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(BLUF)*
> 
> Not all acts of self-defense are a legitimate "resistance against occupation."  When the "resistance against occupation" committed are acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, and constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, or represent a grave collective danger, seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them _(Collectively Known as Hostile Acts)_ are punishable under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention IV.
> 
> While not all acts of aggression are terrorism, all acts of terrorism are examples of aggression.
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act - are acts of terrorism.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are interlocking and remarkably similar connections between aggression, terrorism and criminal acts taken against the Occupation Force or a state.
> 
> _When the Arab Palestinians_ send - on behalf of a State _(the Arab Palestinian People)_ - armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, _(in contemporary terms Jihadists, Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Troublemakers, Adherents, Guerrillas and Asymmetric Fighter)_ which carry out acts of armed force against the State of Israel, this is generally referred to as State Sponsored Terrorism.   But it is also, by definition, acts of aggression.
> 
> Similarly, The action of Arab Palestinians in allowing its territory, which it has placed at the disposal of another State (example Iran), to be used for perpetrating an act of aggression against a third State; is also (by definition) an act of aggression.
> 
> Also, each time the Hostile Arab Palestinian launched rockets and mortars into Israel, or attempt to breach the border to penetrate Israel is by definition, an act of aggression.
> 
> In the past, the Hostile Arab Palestinians have tried to scramble these concepts, turn them around, and then attempt to use them as justification for armed struggle and jihad.  But the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) makes it clear that not only are the acts themselves considered terrorism, but the incitement to perform any such acts are a form of terrorism.
> 
> *(LOGIC and RATIONALE)*
> 
> *PART ONE:*  On the Question of Hostile Occupation →  A actual definition of an "occupation" _(as in Occupied Territory_) is NOT dependent on the basis of "legal v Illegal" - "Peaceful v Hostile" - "Right v Wrong."  These are merely adjectives that describe the character of the occupation.  An occupation has a definite property of being "placed under the authority of the *hostile army*."
> 
> The law is quite simple, clear and concise:
> 
> *Definition of an Occupation*:  '*Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907*'
> 
> Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
> 
> Annex to the Convention: Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land - _*Section III : Military authority over the territory of the hostile state*_ - Regulations: Article 42.
> 
> Article 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.​
> 
> •  *IF* the territory is NOT under the authority of a "Hostile Army"
> •  *THEN* the territory is NOT "Occupied."​*PART TWO:*  On the Question on the Relationship Between Terrorist and Aggressor →
> 
> The law is quite simple, clear and concise:
> 
> _Article 1 - *Definition of Aggression* - A/RES/3314(XXIX) 14 December 1974 _
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.​
> •  *IF* the use of armed force is NOT against the sovereignty,
> territorial integrity or political independence of another State
> 
> •  *THEN* the use of force is NOT an act of aggression.
> 
> ______________________________________________​
> I have, in the past, attempted to break this up into smaller and better digestible nuggets of information.  But I find that opponents and the supporters of Arab Palestinian Terrorism flip the mirror and come back with an approach that does not tie it up into a coherent presentation.  For that reason, I've tried to bring various notions together in a single dose..
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some examples.
Click to expand...

An army that doesn't attack from under their women's skirts.
An army that doesn't strap suicide belts to children.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some examples.



You would have to first give some examples of Israel's "violent aggression".  Do not include anything that is a response to Arab Palestinian violent aggression because that is simply self defense and not aggression.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You've rendered a loaded question.  It was not Israel that was the aggressor. 



P F Tinmore said:


> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some examples.


*(COMMENT)*

But even more than that, your question shows an absolute and complete failure to understand a very basic Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  [A/RES/2625 (XXV)]



			
				Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations said:
			
		

> ◈  Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
> 
> ◈  States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> ◈   Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.



The Israelis did not engage the Arab Palestinians first.  It was the other way around.  In terms of the conflict relative to the territories, the conflict was originally spirited between the Israelis and the Jordanians (over the West Bank and Jerusalem) and the Israelis and Egyptians (over the Gaza Strip).

The at the time of the conflict (Six Day War of 1967) the Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988; twenty years later. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

The problem is that many Arab Palestinians, and people like Tinmore, view ANY Jewish self-determination in the Jewish homeland as being a "violent aggression" against Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You've rendered a loaded question.  It was not Israel that was the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some examples.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But even more than that, your question shows an absolute and complete failure to understand a very basic Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  [A/RES/2625 (XXV)]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
> 
> ◈  States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> ◈   Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis did not engage the Arab Palestinians first.  It was the other way around.  In terms of the conflict relative to the territories, the conflict was originally spirited between the Israelis and the Jordanians (over the West Bank and Jerusalem) and the Israelis and Egyptians (over the Gaza Strip).
> 
> The at the time of the conflict (Six Day War of 1967) the Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988; twenty years later.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

If you want to start history someplace in the middle of your choice, you can point the finger anyplace you want.

The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.

I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is what I mean when I say you shift the timeline without a time reference. 



P F Tinmore said:


> If you want to start history someplace in the middle of your choice, you can point the finger anyplace you want.


*(COMMENT)*

Whether or not you start today, yesterday, 50 years ago, 100 years ago → or 900 years ago, → the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty or governmental control over anyplace in the Vilayet of Beirut or the Sanjak of Jerusalem _(today's Israel and Lebanon)_. 

The inhabitants of the Vilayet of Beirut or the Sanjak of Jerusalem _(today's Israel and Lebanon)_ were considered were not friendly but aligned with the Central - then - Axis Powers in both the Great War (WWI) and WWII, respectively. 

In 1918 the Ottoman Empire surrendered the region, in its entirety, to the Allied Powers.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.


*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, I've heard that before.  The Arab Palestinians were first place under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and then the Allied Civil Administration established by the Mandate Authority. 

The Arab Palestinians were represented by the Arab League from the date of the Ottoman surrender (Armistice of Mudros) until the Arab League appointed the PLO sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974).  This was well after the Six Day War.  The Arab Palestinians (PLO) did not declare independence until November 1988 → 70 years after the Armistice of Mudros.

The Jewish Immigrants did not "give them the boot" or "steal their land."  The time period implied was actually considered to have started sometime after the adoption of UN Resolution 181 (II) in November 1988. 



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.


*(COMMENT)*

The acts of aggression (Definition of Aggression A/RES/3314(XXIX) of 14 December 1974) _[__armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against Israelis]_ began with the rise of Arab Palestinian terrorist bands_ (first was the Palestinian Black Hand)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is what I mean when I say you shift the timeline without a time reference.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to start history someplace in the middle of your choice, you can point the finger anyplace you want.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Whether or not you start today, yesterday, 50 years ago, 100 years ago → or 900 years ago, → the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty or governmental control over anyplace in the Vilayet of Beirut or the Sanjak of Jerusalem _(today's Israel and Lebanon)_.
> 
> The inhabitants of the Vilayet of Beirut or the Sanjak of Jerusalem _(today's Israel and Lebanon)_ were considered were not friendly but aligned with the Central - then - Axis Powers in both the Great War (WWI) and WWII, respectively.
> 
> In 1918 the Ottoman Empire surrendered the region, in its entirety, to the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yeah, I've heard that before.  The Arab Palestinians were first place under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) and then the Allied Civil Administration established by the Mandate Authority.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were represented by the Arab League from the date of the Ottoman surrender (Armistice of Mudros) until the Arab League appointed the PLO sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people - LAS Rabat Summit - resolution (28 October 1974).  This was well after the Six Day War.  The Arab Palestinians (PLO) did not declare independence until November 1988 → 70 years after the Armistice of Mudros.
> 
> The Jewish Immigrants did not "give them the boot" or "steal their land."  The time period implied was actually considered to have started sometime after the adoption of UN Resolution 181 (II) in November 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The acts of aggression (Definition of Aggression A/RES/3314(XXIX) of 14 December 1974) _[armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against Israelis]_ began with the rise of Arab Palestinian terrorist bands_ (first was the Palestinian Black Hand)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Doesn't change my post any.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
 ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You may say that it doesn't change your post, but that does not mean your post is accurate or true.



P F Tinmore said:


> Doesn't change my post any.


*(COMMENT)*

All three of your points have been shown  →  to have serious flaws in them.

•  No matter the point on the time line, your assertion that the Jewish People invaded the Arabs is 100% inaccurate.

•  No matter the period, the implication that the Jewish People came from Europe and displaced the Arab and stole land is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

•  By the time that the culture of the Arab Palestinian evolved, the Israelis were not the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were not peaceful people.  Twice in the 20th Century, they sided against the Allied Powers and were known for promoting and inciting terrorist action _(both the Grand Mufti and the Islamic Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_.​
Just because I cannot open your eyes to the truth, does not mean the truth is not there to be seen.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.
> 
> I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.



The Arab Palestinians were "at home" minding their own business, with no thought to self-determination, government, sovereignty, or even distinct identity because they were comfortably part of the larger Arab world and perfectly content to be ruled by "others" as long as those "others" are Arab Muslim.

Arab Palestinian aggression isn't a response to removal or denial of self-determination.  Its a response to Jews.


----------



## rylah

874563





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You've rendered a loaded question.  It was not Israel that was the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some eexamples.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But even more than that, your question shows an absolute and complete failure to understand a very basic Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  [A/RES/2625 (XXV)]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
> 
> ◈  States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiatsticion, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> ◈   Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within iuts territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis did not engage the Arab Palestinians first.  It was the other way around.  In terms of the conflict relative to the territories, the conflict was originally spirited between the Israelis and the Jordanians (over the West Bank and Jerusalem) and the Israelis and Egyptians (over the Gaza Strip).
> 
> The at the time of the conflict (Six Day War of 1967) the Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988; twenty years later.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you want to start history someplace in the middle of your choice, you can point the finger anyplace you want.
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.
> 
> I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.
Click to expand...


Only if You call expelling their Jewish neighbors around the entire middle east
"minding their own business". 

Not a single bullet was shot before the Arabs expelled the Jews from all of their holy cities.
That it were the Arabs who eventually got the boot and defeated  was an act of historic justice.

You'll keep running like a scared duck trying to sweep that under the carpet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You may say that it doesn't change your post, but that does not mean your post is accurate or true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't change my post any.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All three of your points have been shown  →  to have serious flaws in them.
> 
> •  No matter the point on the time line, your assertion that the Jewish People invaded the Arabs is 100% inaccurate.
> 
> •  No matter the period, the implication that the Jewish People came from Europe and displaced the Arab and stole land is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> •  By the time that the culture of the Arab Palestinian evolved, the Israelis were not the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were not peaceful people.  Twice in the 20th Century, they sided against the Allied Powers and were known for promoting and inciting terrorist action _(both the Grand Mufti and the Islamic Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_.​
> Just because I cannot open your eyes to the truth, does not mean the truth is not there to be seen.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

My post is correct. I am using recorded history. You are using Israeli talking points.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You may say that it doesn't change your post, but that does not mean your post is accurate or true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't change my post any.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All three of your points have been shown  →  to have serious flaws in them.
> 
> •  No matter the point on the time line, your assertion that the Jewish People invaded the Arabs is 100% inaccurate.
> 
> •  No matter the period, the implication that the Jewish People came from Europe and displaced the Arab and stole land is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> •  By the time that the culture of the Arab Palestinian evolved, the Israelis were not the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were not peaceful people.  Twice in the 20th Century, they sided against the Allied Powers and were known for promoting and inciting terrorist action _(both the Grand Mufti and the Islamic Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_.​
> Just because I cannot open your eyes to the truth, does not mean the truth is not there to be seen.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My post is correct. I am using recorded history. You are using Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


What's your version of events?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You may say that it doesn't change your post, but that does not mean your post is accurate or true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't change my post any.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All three of your points have been shown  →  to have serious flaws in them.
> 
> •  No matter the point on the time line, your assertion that the Jewish People invaded the Arabs is 100% inaccurate.
> 
> •  No matter the period, the implication that the Jewish People came from Europe and displaced the Arab and stole land is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> •  By the time that the culture of the Arab Palestinian evolved, the Israelis were not the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were not peaceful people.  Twice in the 20th Century, they sided against the Allied Powers and were known for promoting and inciting terrorist action _(both the Grand Mufti and the Islamic Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_.​
> Just because I cannot open your eyes to the truth, does not mean the truth is not there to be seen.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My post is correct. I am using recorded history. You are using Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

That bubble is too easy to burst.

The Arab pogroms against Palestinian Jews  before Zionism are all recorded history,
but You're too dishonest to face the facts that put Your beloved losers
in direct responsibility for their own defeat.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You may say that it doesn't change your post, but that does not mean your post is accurate or true.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't change my post any.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> All three of your points have been shown  →  to have serious flaws in them.
> 
> •  No matter the point on the time line, your assertion that the Jewish People invaded the Arabs is 100% inaccurate.
> 
> •  No matter the period, the implication that the Jewish People came from Europe and displaced the Arab and stole land is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
> 
> •  By the time that the culture of the Arab Palestinian evolved, the Israelis were not the aggressors and the Arab Palestinians were not peaceful people.  Twice in the 20th Century, they sided against the Allied Powers and were known for promoting and inciting terrorist action _(both the Grand Mufti and the Islamic Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam)_.​
> Just because I cannot open your eyes to the truth, does not mean the truth is not there to be seen.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My post is correct. I am using recorded history. You are using Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


No fair, only Muslims get to invade and displace, eh?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You've rendered a loaded question.  It was not Israel that was the aggressor.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what would be legitimate resistance to Israel's violent aggression?
> 
> Give me some examples.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But even more than that, your question shows an absolute and complete failure to understand a very basic Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  [A/RES/2625 (XXV)]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈  Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.
> 
> ◈  States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> ◈   Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.
> 
> ◈  Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Israelis did not engage the Arab Palestinians first.  It was the other way around.  In terms of the conflict relative to the territories, the conflict was originally spirited between the Israelis and the Jordanians (over the West Bank and Jerusalem) and the Israelis and Egyptians (over the Gaza Strip).
> 
> The at the time of the conflict (Six Day War of 1967) the Palestinians did not declare independence until 1988; twenty years later.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you want to start history someplace in the middle of your choice, you can point the finger anyplace you want.
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe to give them the boot and steal their land.
> 
> I don't see any Palestinian aggression here.
Click to expand...


Please tell me about "settlers coming down from Europe", so I can watch you putting your foot in your mouth.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Urgent appeal from Gaza to the citizens of the world, Help us! - Noor Harazeen*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

*BBC World News Annemarie Jacir interview*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Now, did Ben Gurion say it exactly like that?  Let us have a link to your source, and to what Ben Gurion actually may have said, shall we?

And to think that he would have said that as if no Jews lived on the land, and they were the first Jews to move back to their ancient homeland since 2000 years before?  Truly?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this photo reproduction _*(multiple times)*_ does show a definite use of civilians that have been incited by _*(presumably)*_ HAMAS to violate the established demarcation set by the 2005 Disengagement Plan _(2005 DP)_ _(AKA: Isreali-Gaza Border)_.  The 2005 DP was an alternative to a Negotiated Settlement _(Alla - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States)_:


			
				A/RES/25/2625 ([FONT=Book Antiqua][I]XXV[/I][/FONT]) said:
			
		

> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
> 
> _Recalling_ the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,
> 
> _Convinced_ in consequence that any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a State or country or at its political independence is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter,





			
				Article II - United Nations — Treaty Series — Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty said:
			
		

> The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> • *LINK to Series* •





P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

It is what it is.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians made it a point to disrespect the Treaty, the Accords, and the 2005 DP.

They are what they appear to be, thugs, barbarians, crooks and criminals.  They are a population that supports an organization that is recognized by the entirety of Western Europe and the Industrialized World as a "terrorist organization." 

HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) _(as examples)_, use terrorism → undermine the Middle East peace process and prevent negotiations through the use of violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, this photo reproduction _*(multiple times)*_ does show a definite use of civilians that have been incited by _*(presumably)*_ HAMAS to violate the established demarcation set by the 2005 Disengagement Plan _(2005 DP)_ _(AKA: Isreali-Gaza Border)_.  The 2005 DP was an alternative to a Negotiated Settlement _(Alla - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States)_:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/25/2625 ([FONT=Book Antiqua][I]XXV[/I][/FONT]) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
> 
> _Recalling_ the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,
> 
> _Convinced_ in consequence that any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a State or country or at its political independence is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article II - United Nations — Treaty Series — Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> • *LINK to Series* •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 248630
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians made it a point to disrespect the Treaty, the Accords, and the 2005 DP.
> 
> They are what they appear to be, thugs, barbarians, crooks and criminals.  They are a population that supports an organization that is recognized by the entirety of Western Europe and the Industrialized World as a "terrorist organization."
> 
> HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) _(as examples)_, use terrorism → undermine the Middle East peace process and prevent negotiations through the use of violence.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Trope city.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

*W. Kamau Bell In Bed with Jen Jajeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Do you not care to share who these people in all of your posts are and where they are?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## Sixties Fan

P F Tinmore said:


>


Nope, you do not care to share who these people are and where they are.

They could be in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq......who knows.

As long as they look like "Palestinians" being "occupied"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


>



PALESTINE TODAY!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


>



Four words; HEIL HITLER;   PALESTINE TODAY!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel releases detained Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Professor files discrimination lawsuit against top-ranking administrators*

A tenured professor filed a lawsuit against SF State President Leslie Wong and other top-ranking administrators on Jan. 14, alleging discrimination based on her race, health and political activism.

Arab and Muslim Ethnicities and Diasporas program director and professor Rabab Abdulhadi alleges in the suit that Wong, Vice President of Student Affairs Jennifer Summit and former Provost Sue Rosser acted on behalf of Zionist organizations who donate money to the SF State.

In the lawsuit, Dr. Abdulhadi claims these administrators helped foster a hostile work environment by launching repeated investigations into her research, excluding her from cohorts and canceling trips to Palestine to stall the AMED program at the behest of pro-Israel groups like AMCHA, the Jewish Community Relations Council and SF Hillel.

The First Amendment complaint also states that SF State administrators use “kid-gloves” when responding to complaints from Hillel or AMCHA, but remain silent when Abdulhadi is repeatedly sued by anti-Palestine organizations, despite the cases being dismissed with prejudice by Judge William Orrick, or when smear campaigns defame her as anti-Semitic.

Professor files discrimination lawsuit against top-ranking administrators – Golden Gate Xpress


----------



## P F Tinmore

Baccalaureate Speaker: Rashida Tlaib

*Dartmouth College Baccalaureate 2015*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



PA is doing a lot for those folks, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Spend enough money on terror tunnels and rockets, there isn't enough to help the little people.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why would you work for the Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you work for the Jews?
Click to expand...

What a stupid post.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you work for the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a stupid post.
Click to expand...


I agree, Muslims are stupid.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those complaints that don't make sense.



P F Tinmore said:


> ​


*(COMMENT)*

I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position and is providing material and political support to the dominant terrorist organization that claims to control the Gaza Strip. 

The general population should not be surprized at all in the restrictions on movement and travel they experience as potential threats to Israeli Security and citizenry.  

This would be especially true in the light of the tens of thousands of Hostile Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that have demonstrated along the Israeli Border.


*“We will take down Israel’s border and tear out Israeli hearts from their bodies”*

*So says Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, who is more than willing to send Arab Muslim boys to die at the Gaza-Israel border, before they get anywhere near an Israeli soldier, let alone being able to rip his heart out. Bring it!*​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those complaints that don't make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 249412​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position and is providing material and political support to the dominant terrorist organization that claims to control the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The general population should not be surprized at all in the restrictions on movement and travel they experience as potential threats to Israeli Security and citizenry.
> 
> This would be especially true in the light of the tens of thousands of Hostile Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that have demonstrated along the Israeli Border.
> 
> 
> *“We will take down Israel’s border and tear out Israeli hearts from their bodies”*
> 
> *So says Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, who is more than willing to send Arab Muslim boys to die at the Gaza-Israel border, before they get anywhere near an Israeli soldier, let alone being able to rip his heart out. Bring it!*​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position



The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi & Janna Jihad Tribute: Brave Girls from Palestine*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Translation; Israel has no Right to Exist therefore the “ Two State Solution “‘is actually invalid!
 Ask the poster why “ Real Jews” feel this way. Let’s have some fun


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those complaints that don't make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 249412​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position and is providing material and political support to the dominant terrorist organization that claims to control the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The general population should not be surprized at all in the restrictions on movement and travel they experience as potential threats to Israeli Security and citizenry.
> 
> This would be especially true in the light of the tens of thousands of Hostile Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that have demonstrated along the Israeli Border.
> 
> 
> *“We will take down Israel’s border and tear out Israeli hearts from their bodies”*
> 
> *So says Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, who is more than willing to send Arab Muslim boys to die at the Gaza-Israel border, before they get anywhere near an Israeli soldier, let alone being able to rip his heart out. Bring it!*​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home.
Click to expand...


*The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home. *

If any Muslim nation wants them, they should go.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those complaints that don't make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 249412​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position and is providing material and political support to the dominant terrorist organization that claims to control the Gaza Strip.
> 
> The general population should not be surprized at all in the restrictions on movement and travel they experience as potential threats to Israeli Security and citizenry.
> 
> This would be especially true in the light of the tens of thousands of Hostile Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that have demonstrated along the Israeli Border.
> 
> 
> *“We will take down Israel’s border and tear out Israeli hearts from their bodies”*
> 
> *So says Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, who is more than willing to send Arab Muslim boys to die at the Gaza-Israel border, before they get anywhere near an Israeli soldier, let alone being able to rip his heart out. Bring it!*​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home.
Click to expand...



Technically not. Since they are inside their country of origin, they are not refugees.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh please. It's a security barrier. Not a cage. They exist all over the world for all sorts of reasons. 

The reason they exist in Israel is because Arabs keep trying to kill Jews.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



The only instance I could find of this is a mother and father denied a permit to visit their prematurely born daughter who was transferred to a hospital in the  West Bank in order to save her life. She was able to return home to Gaza after 30 days (not six months).


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, I don't think that can be true.  This is another one of those exaggerations based on the rewriting of the meaning of "refugee." 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The _*Life expectancy at birth:*
For the Total Gaza Strip Population is estimated at:  74.4 years (2018 est.) 
_
Some people get the definition of a  real "refugee" mixed-up with the "eligibility for UNRWA" services.* 
Read:*_ UNRWA’s current *Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions* (CERI, 2006)  _The CERI is an "instruction booklet" and *NOT LAW.*_
_
_*A refugee is someone who* has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries._
_*SOURCE:*  → _*Home › Refugee Facts ›*_* What is a Refugee* •_​ 
OK!  Having said that, vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip ARE NOT 70 years of age and the people who _had "a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group, → cannot return home or are afraid to do so."
_
_*An internally displaced person, or IDP, is someone who* has been forced to flee their home but never cross an international border. These individuals seek safety anywhere they can find it—in nearby towns, schools, settlements, internal camps, even forests and fields. IDPs, which include people displaced by internal strife and natural disasters, are the largest group that UNHCR assists. Unlike refugees, IDPs are not protected by international law or eligible to receive many types of aid because they are legally under the protection of their own government._
_*SOURCE:*  → _*Home › Refugee Facts ›*_*Who is an internally displaced person?* •_​

When we talk about the population of Arab Palestinian Refugees, we use that term loosely; without adhering to the specifics of what it means.  Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip that we are talking about are either: 

◈  True Refugees
        ---- or ----
◈  Displaced Persons​
A vast majority of the Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip "never lived" outside the Gaza Strip --- in what is now sovereign Israel.  Look at the accumulation of the pictures posted and you will not find very many Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip that are 70 years of age or older...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Funny how they're both right and wrong.
"End of occupation" means sovereignty, nothing less.
The bigger question is who's occupation are we going to end.

They can join Ilhan Omar and visit the grave of Yassir Arafat in a big ceremony,
make sure to take pictures and make it memorable when still possible...
I'm sure they'll have lots of work when Jews start abandoning America for Judea,
aren't they already?


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, I don't think that can be true.  This is another one of those exaggerations based on the rewriting of the meaning of "refugee."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is safe to say that almost everyone knows that the vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip supports an anti-Israeli position
> 
> 
> 
> The vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip are refugees who want to go back home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The _*Life expectancy at birth:*
> For the Total Gaza Strip Population is estimated at:  74.4 years (2018 est.)
> _
> Some people get the definition of a  real "refugee" mixed-up with the "eligibility for UNRWA" services.*
> Read:*_ UNRWA’s current *Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions* (CERI, 2006)  _The CERI is an "instruction booklet" and *NOT LAW.*
> 
> _*A refugee is someone who* has been forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war or violence. A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries._
> _*SOURCE:*  → _*Home › Refugee Facts ›*_* What is a Refugee* •_​
> OK!  Having said that, vast majority of the general population in the Gaza Strip ARE NOT 70 years of age and the people who _had "a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group, → cannot return home or are afraid to do so."
> _
> _*An internally displaced person, or IDP, is someone who* has been forced to flee their home but never cross an international border. These individuals seek safety anywhere they can find it—in nearby towns, schools, settlements, internal camps, even forests and fields. IDPs, which include people displaced by internal strife and natural disasters, are the largest group that UNHCR assists. Unlike refugees, IDPs are not protected by international law or eligible to receive many types of aid because they are legally under the protection of their own government._
> _*SOURCE:*  → _*Home › Refugee Facts ›*_*Who is an internally displaced person?* •_​
> 
> When we talk about the population of Arab Palestinian Refugees, we use that term loosely; without adhering to the specifics of what it means.  Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip that we are talking about are either:
> 
> ◈  True Refugees
> ---- or ----
> ◈  Displaced Persons​
> A vast majority of the Arab Palestinians in the Gaza Strip "never lived" outside the Gaza Strip --- in what is now sovereign Israel.  Look at the accumulation of the pictures posted and you will not find very many Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip that are 70 years of age or older...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Tinmore is perfectly aware of the accurate meaning of the word "refugee". Why just a few days ago he (cough cough) reminded me that UNWRA is an aid agency and does not define the term "refugee".

Funny, then, how he plays fast and loose with terminology when it suits him.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>





If the Messiah isn't here yet, does Israel belong to the Jews? - Jewish World -  Haaretz - Israel News | Haaretz.com

This is why " Real Jews" don't believe Israel has the Right to Exist; It has nothing to do with Jewish Heritage , Israeli Rights, or  anything else.  His blank statement is based both on ignorance and stupidity


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib Speech - 22nd Annual Banquet 2018 | CAIR-LA*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



All that exposed skin?
Stone her!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 10): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #3 - Omar Barghouti*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 10): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #3 - Omar Barghouti*
> 
> **



Didn't Ireland also host a birthday party for Hitler?
Indeed a cozy club for the chief BDS-hole.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rashida Tlaib Speech - 22nd Annual Banquet 2018 | CAIR-LA*
> 
> **



The irony is she actually said "made me a warrior AGAINST justice", 
even a broken clock...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib Speech - 22nd Annual Banquet 2018 | CAIR-LA*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is she actually said "made me a warrior AGAINST justice",
> even a broken clock...
Click to expand...


He gets so angry at the mere thought of Israel existence he just posts without even going through the entire text of what’s being said. It’s quite amusing


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib Speech - 22nd Annual Banquet 2018 | CAIR-LA*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is she actually said "made me a warrior AGAINST justice",
> even a broken clock...
Click to expand...

Gee, verbal "typo." How amusing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 11): Human Rights & Workers’ Rights #1 - Eamon McMahon*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib Speech - 22nd Annual Banquet 2018 | CAIR-LA*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The irony is she actually said "made me a warrior AGAINST justice",
> even a broken clock...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Gee, verbal "typo." How amusing.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't mention it if thought it was irrelevant.
Freudian slip they call it?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi backs Ilhan Omar, calling for 'open and honest discourse'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The World Today - THE TRAGEDY OF PALESTINE*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



I like when friends get together


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.    
 Keep posting!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
  You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “


Without the Palestinians, I may add.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
Click to expand...


 There will not be one . There never is


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
Click to expand...

Why do you post here when you know so little?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...


  Now, THAT is funny! Coming from the one who keeps on posting You Tube Videos of Hasidic Jews stating they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  Keep posting !


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Translation:  This is where we stand for the self-determination of all peoples.  Oh.  Wait.  Except the Jewish people.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel’s goal from the beginning was to take over all of “ Palestine “ including the W. Bank and Gaza? These areas were recognized by the International Community as being part of Jordan and Egypt; Countries that  initiated the 67 War.
> Keep posting!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
Click to expand...



Imao


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Imao
Click to expand...


I will be the first to admit I don’t have the knowledge RoccoR and others do.    However when he is challenged with certain basic questions such as if they want “ peace” why they just recently declared Israel didn’t have any rights to the Western Wall there is no response.  Instead he answers with accusations; it’s called deflection. Typical Pro Palestinian Mentality


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> You can deny it all you want but I have provided many link proving that Gaza, W. Bank and E. Jerusalem were officially recognized as being part of Egypt and Jordan.      Keep posting!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are The one who posted a You Tube Video in which the claim was made that the Goal of Israel was to take over ALL of “ Palestine “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Imao
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will be the first to admit I don’t have the knowledge RoccoR and others do.    However when he is challenged with certain basic questions such as if they want “ peace” why they just recently declared Israel didn’t have any rights to the Western Wall there is no response.  Instead he answers with accusations; it’s called deflection. Typical Pro Palestinian Mentality
Click to expand...


You think RoccoR is pro-Palestinian?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without the Palestinians, I may add.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Imao
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will be the first to admit I don’t have the knowledge RoccoR and others do.    However when he is challenged with certain basic questions such as if they want “ peace” why they just recently declared Israel didn’t have any rights to the Western Wall there is no response.  Instead he answers with accusations; it’s called deflection. Typical Pro Palestinian Mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think RoccoR is pro-Palestinian?
Click to expand...


No!!!! Did I give that impression?  Sorry? RoccoR  didn’t mean to insult you !!!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There will not be one . There never is
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you post here when you know so little?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Imao
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will be the first to admit I don’t have the knowledge RoccoR and others do.    However when he is challenged with certain basic questions such as if they want “ peace” why they just recently declared Israel didn’t have any rights to the Western Wall there is no response.  Instead he answers with accusations; it’s called deflection. Typical Pro Palestinian Mentality
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think RoccoR is pro-Palestinian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No!!!! Did I give that impression?  Sorry? RoccoR  didn’t mean to insult you !!!
Click to expand...


*I will be the first to admit I don’t have the knowledge RoccoR and others do. However when [PF] is challenged with certain basic questions......*

Would have been clearer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



So angry. Thank you for admitting you don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist. You should get in touch with those Hasidic Jews you like to You Tube so much.   Keep Posting!


----------



## PoliticalChic

P F Tinmore said:


>










How the West mocks its own anti-terrorism narrative - The Commentator


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation:  This is where we stand for the self-determination of all peoples.  Oh.  Wait.  Except the Jewish people.
Click to expand...



US cuts references to Israeli 'occupation' of Golan, Judea and Samaria in key report

ITS ABOUT TIME!!!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




US cuts references to Israeli 'occupation' of Golan, Judea and Samaria in key report


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.



 Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor https://www.buzzfeednews.com/author/yousefmunayyer

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30



I've got a couple issues with this:

1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.  

2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?

3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.


She never mentioned Jews.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
Click to expand...



She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
Click to expand...


Another lie. She said that those who support Israel have allegiance to a Foreign Country suggesting that that who do are traitors to this Country.  It Should be understood this applies to the majority of Jews. Keep Posting.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?
Click to expand...

Good question. Why are they not safe?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another lie. She said that those who support Israel have allegiance to a Foreign Country suggesting that that who do are traitors to this Country.  It Should be understood this applies to the majority of Jews. Keep Posting.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why are they not safe?
Click to expand...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why are they not safe?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What is a Glock?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why are they not safe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a Glock?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another lie. She said that those who support Israel have allegiance to a Foreign Country suggesting that that who do are traitors to this Country.  It Should be understood this applies to the majority of Jews. Keep Posting.
Click to expand...

She was referring to congress in general. She did not single out anyone.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another lie. She said that those who support Israel have allegiance to a Foreign Country suggesting that that who do are traitors to this Country.  It Should be understood this applies to the majority of Jews. Keep Posting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She was referring to congress in general. She did not single out anyone.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but that is not what she said. She stated for the whole world to hear that if you support Israel you automatically have an allegiance to it making you a Traitor


----------



## BS Filter

Israel could exterminate the Pals right this minute, but choose not to because they are humane.  If the Pals had the ability and the firepower, they would exterminate Israel immediately.  That's the difference in the cultures.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

BS Filter said:


> Israel could exterminate the Pals right this minute, but choose not to because they are humane.  If the Pals had the ability and the firepower, they would exterminate Israel immediately.  That's the difference in the cultures.



They have already said as much if they achieve their “ dream” on the One State Solution


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem Girls College, c. 1924


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>


  So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



They should definitely return.....to Saudi Arabia.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should definitely return.....to Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...


True, they're called ARABS, after their origin.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Opinion: The Fight Over Ilhan Omar Is About Something Much Bigger*
> I’ve fought for Palestinian rights for my whole career. Today I see a new generation of American Jews viewing the conflict through a new lens: equality.
> 
> 
> 
> Yousef Munayyer BuzzFeed Contributor
> 
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/yousefmunayyer/fight-over-ilhan-omar-about-something-bigger?fbclid=IwAR1DM66WH40gyQssdglWqAC_ziaxfsI-kpa0JMpQiYGRfgtsPZKxkEIOM30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a couple issues with this:
> 
> 1.  Jewish lives matter.   All lives matter.
> 
> 2.  Cultural/ethnic nationalism is the standard in the world, until Jewish nationalism succeeds in building a state.  Then nationalism is suddenly a form of "oppression and inequality".  Odd, that.  If Arab Palestinians don't care so much about nationalism why don't they just become Jordanians and have parts of Judea and Samaria become part of Jordan?
> 
> 3.  It remains a fact that the Jewish people are the targets of more hate crime, all over the world, than any other group.  Jews are not safe. And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And people like Ilhan Omar are not working to make Jews safe in the US, or in Israel or in Europe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She should. What is she doing to make Jews safe?  Everywhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why are they not safe?
Click to expand...


Replacement theology


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




This map has nothing to do with "return". This map is the erasure of the Jewish people and denial of the Jewish people to self-determination.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!
Click to expand...

 
He’s not ashamed; he’s proud of himself. He has stated many times that Israel does not have the Right to Exist.  
  Stating that I know little yet when asking simple BASIC questions such as their denial of Israel’’s Historical Right to the Western Wall there is no response. The pot calling the kettle black


----------



## The Original Tree

*The Arabs who want to take over Israel are just whacked.  I have never seen such a people live their lives in such an alternate reality and fantasy land.
No matter how many Historical Facts, Genetic Studies you present them, they just can't embrace reality.  Israel is for Jews and has been for 4,000 years.  Nothing is ever going to change that.  Not a fake and made up people making claims to the land.  Not terrorism, nor war.  Israel will not be removed ever from The Land, and repeated attempts to do so, will only enrage God to come to their aide, and judge those who hate, despise and make war on Israel.*


----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!
Click to expand...

*Speaking of colors, has anyone ever noticed or made the correlation that all the colors of The Palestinian Flag, and all the colors of all Muslim Nation's Flags, match the colors of The 4 Horseman of The Apocalypse?

Red, White, Green & Black.*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

The Original Tree said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Speaking of colors, has anyone ever noticed or made the correlation that all the colors of The Palestinian Flag, and all the colors of all Muslim Nation's Flags, match the colors of The 4 Horseman of The Apocalypse?
> 
> Red, White, Green & Black.*
Click to expand...


The Palestinian flag is practically identical to Jordan's flag, proving once again that they have no distinctive identity.  Yet the Israeli flag is full of meaning.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're showing us your true colors.  You should be ashamed of yourself!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Speaking of colors, has anyone ever noticed or made the correlation that all the colors of The Palestinian Flag, and all the colors of all Muslim Nation's Flags, match the colors of The 4 Horseman of The Apocalypse?
> 
> Red, White, Green & Black.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinian flag is practically identical to Jordan's flag, proving once again that they have no distinctive identity.  Yet the Israeli flag is full of meaning.
Click to expand...


*You will see that nearly all Islamic Nations have adopted The Colors of The 4 Horseman of The Apocalypse for the colors of their flags.  I believe they adopted the colors of The Ottoman Empire, and that is where the colors actually originated from.

The reason the Palestinian Flag is almost identical to The Jordanian Flag is because Transjordan is where The Arab Palestinians are supposed to settle.  East of The River Jordan.  

Everything West of The River Jordan is for The Jews.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn..,,  Not going to happen


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 13): Human Rights & Workers’ Rights #3 - John Reynolds*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi on Palestine and BDS - Witness Palestine Rochester*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza city


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ghada Karmi tells Dani Dayan he is a common thief!*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Corbyn, antisemitism and justice for Palestine*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Kids signing artillery projectiles.


*(COMMENT)*

This has been a very long tradition signing the larger projectiles.  It is a feel-good exercise.  I did it a couple of times in Vietnam.  It is a non-violent activity.  It's not like the Arab Palestinians are going to see it.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>





Well, Israel wants citizens who don't try to murder Jews and abide by the law.  

And there are not 150,000 homeless Palestinians in Area C.  There's barely 250,000 Palestinians in Area C.  

Vile lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat on Black-Palestinian Solidarity and Palestine As a Progressive Issue*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,

Why do I feel like this is only half the story; the pro-Palestinian story.



P F Tinmore said:


> ...



v/r
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> Why do I feel like this is only half the story; the pro-Palestinian story.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

There are plenty of Israeli shills on this board giving the Israeli view. Why should I be redundant?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Corbyn, antisemitism and justice for Palestine*
> 
> **




Anti-Semitism is so bad in Britain that some Jews are planning to leave - CNN

The Anti Semitism starts at the top and it filters down. It obviously has not  reached Pre WW11 proportions but this is how it starts,
 Corbin was actually at a ceremony to HONOR and laying the wreath for terrorists who killed a team of Israeli Athletes in the 1970's.  Talk about a Pro Palestinian Shill


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

Yes, this division in the British Labor Party has been noticed increasing and over the last couple of decades.  But discrimination and racism among the brits are not that all unusual.    Back in the 1980's, when the US Military was coming out of the darkness of racism, some of the things I heard my foreign counterparts say were quite shocking.  I notice that with the Australians, a similar hint of racism rippled beneath the surface.  And those experiences of the 1980's and 1990's were reaffirmed while I was working in the Palace in Baghdad; although it was stronger against the Blacks then it was with the Arabs or Jews.  

I do have to say, there were some very noticeable improvements in the first decade at the turn of the century. 



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Corbyn, antisemitism and justice for Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism is so bad in Britain that some Jews are planning to leave - CNN
> 
> The Anti Semitism starts at the top and it filters down. It obviously has not  reached Pre WW11 proportions but this is how it starts,
> Corbin was actually at a ceremony to HONOR and laying the wreath for terrorists who killed a team of Israeli Athletes in the 1970's.  Talk about a Pro Palestinian Shill
Click to expand...

*(FIRST LEVEL COMMENT)*

I do think, besides showing an immediate reaction of displeasure at any form of prejudice, Americans should let the Commonwealth Members of the Five-Eyes (FVEYs) deal with their domestic issue, and we handle our issues.  This is a time for America to rebuild its greater alliances and not cripple them.

*(SECOND LEVEL COMMENT)*

Although we are not there yet, there should be a point _(line in the sand kind of thing)_ at which America publicly states it's objection to racism, including anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism (if there is a clear distinction between the two at that point).  And it should be made loud and clear.

But, as long as the US Protects the continuation of the Jewish National Home (JNH), at least if it comes to the point that the British Commonwealth become inhospitable to its Jewish constituents a repeat of the MS St. Louis _(carrying more than 900 Jewish refugees fleeing Germany in 1939)_ were denied permission to land in the United States and Canada.  I cannot imagine the FVEYs could hold their heads very high and standing tall on moral ground over the decision to send those refugees back; fleeing a Europe coming under the control of NAZI Germany. 

The access to a free and accessible JNH must be maintained to at least give the Jewish people an alternative when the FVEY turn on them as 21st Century political pressures gradually turn towards the repression of the NAZI like growth we see today.

Just my simple thought.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*The most evil BBC actions are the ones you’re not supposed to see*

by brianoflondon
My friend, Kay Wilson, writes this on Facebag:

It goes like this:

The organization I speak for, OneFamily Together, called me on Thursday, saying that the BBC News are doing a report about the funding of terrorists, and would I like to be part of it.

You bet, I thought. 

So the BBC called me and explained that they would also be interviewing a Palestinian family who gets a load of money because of their murderous son, sitting in an Israeli jail. 

I wasn't put off. 

I have UK citizenship. 
I am fluent in English. 
I am articulate. 
And.... in my moral favor, I have also started a clandestine project in a Palestinian refugee camp with a Muslim friend, to counter-radicalize children and teach them to clutch onto life and resist adults who teach them to hate. 

I just heard back. 

"Umm.... you're too famous, we need someone less well known, so I'm very sorry, but we wont be interviewing you."

They are scared of me. They would rather choose an Israeli who struggles with English, so he/she looks "foreign," and it will bring the "balance," needed 

Moral cowards. I find them obscene.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mnar Muhawesh discusses social media giants’ efforts to wipe independent journalism off the map and what can be done to combat this deliberate form of censorship.*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Get over it already, it's been almost 80 years.  And this politician has called them Arabs.  Arabs come from Arabia (that's where the name comes from).  Arabs have 22 countries already.  They can share Israel/Palestine with the one Jewish country in the world, and live decent lives (with financial compensation) in the countries they have settled in.  No progress can be made as long as Jews claim all of Eretz Israel, and Arabs claim all of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 15): Prisons, Propaganda & Oppression #2 - Sahar Francis*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 17): Winning The Battle For Justice In Palestine - Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


So re-establishment of an indigenous homeland = separation by skin color 
That doesn't make sense. Probably because it only half of the quote.

And for someone to be asked anything, one has to have authority first to make that happen,
 the Arabian kings were indeed informed.


----------



## rylah

*Dr. Einat Wilf on Zionism - Full Interview*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Dr. Einat Wilf on Zionism - Full Interview*


She didn't mention stealing land and killing people.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Einat Wilf on Zionism - Full Interview*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She didn't mention stealing land and killing people.
Click to expand...


She also didn't mention how Spain kicked out the Caliphate.
Maybe we should talk more about it, I hear they demand a "right of return" to Spain.
Actually using the same lexicon to the letter.

Don't You think she should mention the Caliphates?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Einat Wilf on Zionism - Full Interview*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She didn't mention stealing land and killing people.
Click to expand...


When it comes to killing ppl, the Arabs have given as good as they've gotten, and more so.  Besides, if you are living on stolen Native American land, then you should not be a hypocrite and move back to Europe where your grandparents came from.  And don't give an arbitrary cut-off date as your excuse not to!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Einat Wilf on Zionism - Full Interview*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She didn't mention stealing land and killing people.
Click to expand...


*She didn't mention stealing land and killing people. *

But enough about the Muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Chumpsky.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



If your terrorists would stop attacking Israel, Israel would have no reason to bomb your terrorists hiding behind your women and children.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, P F Tinmore,, et al,

Yes, this is the two-fold argument based on the:

◈  Strict application of proportional response, 

◈  Utilization of civilians to shield and render certain hostile points immune from military retaliation,​
The arguments are on a very single and simplistic level.  



Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You will notice that, the first part of the argument is based on the chivalry of a duel.   That is if the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) fire a single Qassam Rocket, the Israelis can only fire a Qassam Rocket back.  That is stupid.  No country in the world gives-up its combat superiority because the hostile force is inferior.  

✪  Just because the HoAP does not have a Navy or an Army --- heavy weapons or artillery → does not mean that Israel must give up its advantages.​
The second part of the argument is base on the notion that the citizenry, that supports and sustains the HoAP, can act as a shield for a launch site for the Qassam Rockets and that the HoAP may fire as many Rockets they wish without fear of retaliation because the civilians that support and sustains the HoAP are in close proximity.

✪  The fault is that the HoAP must avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.

✪  The second fault in the argument is that the HoAP must remove civilians from the vicinity of HoAP operations.

✪  Just because the HoAP use civilians to shield, conseal, hide or disguise the presence of HoAP operations.  Civilian casualties must have a military objective.  Each time the HoAP fires a rocket into Israel, it is indiscriminte fire.​
  Dr Chomsky thinks that a battlefield is fair.  It is not.  For most countries, the military force is to protect  and defend.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## tommyboy80

no such thing as palestine


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


Your map is incorrect. All of Palestine has been occupied since 1917.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



That kind of talk still wouldn't have saved him, in a different time, a different era. How naive can one be?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, P F Tinmore,, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the two-fold argument based on the:
> 
> ◈  Strict application of proportional response,
> 
> ◈  Utilization of civilians to shield and render certain hostile points immune from military retaliation,​
> The arguments are on a very single and simplistic level.
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 250807​
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that, the first part of the argument is based on the chivalry of a duel.   That is if the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) fire a single Qassam Rocket, the Israelis can only fire a Qassam Rocket back.  That is stupid.  No country in the world gives-up its combat superiority because the hostile force is inferior.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP does not have a Navy or an Army --- heavy weapons or artillery → does not mean that Israel must give up its advantages.​
> The second part of the argument is base on the notion that the citizenry, that supports and sustains the HoAP, can act as a shield for a launch site for the Qassam Rockets and that the HoAP may fire as many Rockets they wish without fear of retaliation because the civilians that support and sustains the HoAP are in close proximity.
> 
> ✪  The fault is that the HoAP must avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✪  The second fault in the argument is that the HoAP must remove civilians from the vicinity of HoAP operations.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP use civilians to shield, conseal, hide or disguise the presence of HoAP operations.  Civilian casualties must have a military objective.  Each time the HoAP fires a rocket into Israel, it is indiscriminte fire.​
> Dr Chomsky thinks that a battlefield is fair.  It is not.  For most countries, the military force is to protect  and defend.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> and that the HoAP may fire as many Rockets they wish without fear of retaliation because the civilians that support and sustains the HoAP are in close proximity.


Very shallow thinking on your part, Rocco, how can you regurgitate such obvious bullshit. Why should the Palestinians employ a tactic that does not work? Never has.

Israel will mow down thousands of civilians to kill a couple hundred "terrorists." Israel will flatten entire neighborhoods because their might be a few "terrorists" in there. Israel flattens entire neighborhoods because that is what they want to do. "Terrorists" is just their lame excuse.

You need to get off this human shield propaganda canard.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, P F Tinmore,, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the two-fold argument based on the:
> 
> ◈  Strict application of proportional response,
> 
> ◈  Utilization of civilians to shield and render certain hostile points immune from military retaliation,​
> The arguments are on a very single and simplistic level.
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 250807​
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that, the first part of the argument is based on the chivalry of a duel.   That is if the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) fire a single Qassam Rocket, the Israelis can only fire a Qassam Rocket back.  That is stupid.  No country in the world gives-up its combat superiority because the hostile force is inferior.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP does not have a Navy or an Army --- heavy weapons or artillery → does not mean that Israel must give up its advantages.​
> The second part of the argument is base on the notion that the citizenry, that supports and sustains the HoAP, can act as a shield for a launch site for the Qassam Rockets and that the HoAP may fire as many Rockets they wish without fear of retaliation because the civilians that support and sustains the HoAP are in close proximity.
> 
> ✪  The fault is that the HoAP must avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✪  The second fault in the argument is that the HoAP must remove civilians from the vicinity of HoAP operations.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP use civilians to shield, conseal, hide or disguise the presence of HoAP operations.  Civilian casualties must have a military objective.  Each time the HoAP fires a rocket into Israel, it is indiscriminte fire.​
> Dr Chomsky thinks that a battlefield is fair.  It is not.  For most countries, the military force is to protect  and defend.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Each time the HoAP fires a rocket into Israel, it is indiscriminte fire.


Israel and Palestine are the same. Israel fires in the direction that the rockets come from, and the Palestinians fire in the direction that the airplanes and tanks come from. Neither one has any consideration for any civilians. False argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Toddsterpatriot, P F Tinmore,, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is the two-fold argument based on the:
> 
> ◈  Strict application of proportional response,
> 
> ◈  Utilization of civilians to shield and render certain hostile points immune from military retaliation,​
> The arguments are on a very single and simplistic level.
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 250807​
> 
> 
> 
> Chumpsky.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You will notice that, the first part of the argument is based on the chivalry of a duel.   That is if the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) fire a single Qassam Rocket, the Israelis can only fire a Qassam Rocket back.  That is stupid.  No country in the world gives-up its combat superiority because the hostile force is inferior.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP does not have a Navy or an Army --- heavy weapons or artillery → does not mean that Israel must give up its advantages.​
> The second part of the argument is base on the notion that the citizenry, that supports and sustains the HoAP, can act as a shield for a launch site for the Qassam Rockets and that the HoAP may fire as many Rockets they wish without fear of retaliation because the civilians that support and sustains the HoAP are in close proximity.
> 
> ✪  The fault is that the HoAP must avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
> 
> ✪  The second fault in the argument is that the HoAP must remove civilians from the vicinity of HoAP operations.
> 
> ✪  Just because the HoAP use civilians to shield, conseal, hide or disguise the presence of HoAP operations.  Civilian casualties must have a military objective.  Each time the HoAP fires a rocket into Israel, it is indiscriminte fire.​
> Dr Chomsky thinks that a battlefield is fair.  It is not.  For most countries, the military force is to protect  and defend.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You keep forgetting that the initial aggression came from the Zionists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## tommyboy80

no such thing as palestinians


----------



## tommyboy80

God gave Israel to the Jews.  not you fucking arab terrorist animals


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your map is incorrect. All of Palestine has been occupied since 1917.
Click to expand...


Before 1917 it wasn't Arab sovereign land neither.
But tell me, how was the Ottoman and the Arab occupation different?


----------



## rylah




----------



## Mindful

*It's not about the land.*

The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 didn’t take a significant amount of land from Middle Eastern Arabs. Israel comprises 0.2 percent of the Middle East’s land mass. (That’s two-tenths of one percent!) Clearly, that tiny sliver of land that is Israel is not a significant amount of real estate. Even when Israel relinquished the Gaza Strip to be ruled by the Palestinian Authority in exchange for peace, the promised peace never materialized. Under Hamas’ rule, Gaza has deteriorated substantially since the 2005 agreement, while its government invests resources to build up arms for attacking Israel rather than improving the quality of life for its citizens.

*It’s not about dispossession of a Palestinian people*
Palestinian Arabs are not a separate people group. They have no distinguishing cultural identity setting them apart from other Arabs, and there is no distinctly Palestinian language. Palestinians are Arabs living in a region formerly known as Judea. They are no more distinct as a people from other Arabs in the Middle East than are residents of the state of Wisconsin distinct from residents of Iowa.

Where Did It All Start? The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict | Jewish Voice Ministries International


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,, et al,

Yeah, you think it is shollowthinking on my part, but it's not. 



is still used Tinmore said:


> Very shallow thinking on your part, Rocco, how can you regurgitate such obvious bullshit. Why should the Palestinians employ a tactic that does not work? Never has.
> 
> Israel will mow down thousands of civilians to kill a couple hundred "terrorists." Israel will flatten entire neighborhoods because there might be a few "terrorists" in there. Israel flattens entire neighborhoods because that is what they want to do. "Terrorists" is just their lame excuse.
> 
> You need to get off this human shield propaganda canard.


*(COMMENT)*

•  The tactic is still used, and still working every day.  As an example, the HAMAS operatives are among the rioters on the border.  The use of the Gazan civilian population as human shields: each time the shield fails and civilians suffer casualties, these casualties are used as propaganda props and the focus of anti-Israeli news articles.






*HAMAS Systematic Use of Civilians to Promote Terrorism*
* by Yaakov Lappin
Special to IPT News
March 4, 2019*
•  See LINK for complete Article  •​It is not propaganda if it is true.

The *Court of Justice of the European Union* declares that the General Court should not have annulled
HAMAS’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations
and refers the case back to the General Court​
The more people attempt to support and defend HAMAS as something other than a "Terrorist Organization," or engaging in political advocacy, the great the need becomes to correct the impression that the status of HAMAS as a terrorist organization is debatable or questionable.  Such political advocacy for HAMAS is merely skirting the law on providing material support.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The tactic is still used, and still working every day. As an example, the HAMAS operatives are among the rioters on the border. The use of the Gazan civilian population as human shields: each time the shield fails and civilians suffer casualties, these casualties are used as propaganda props and the focus of anti-Israeli news articles.


Who are they shielding? I have seen no Hamas flags, no uniforms, no guns.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,, et al,
> 
> Yeah, you think it is shollowthinking on my part, but it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> is still used Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very shallow thinking on your part, Rocco, how can you regurgitate such obvious bullshit. Why should the Palestinians employ a tactic that does not work? Never has.
> 
> Israel will mow down thousands of civilians to kill a couple hundred "terrorists." Israel will flatten entire neighborhoods because there might be a few "terrorists" in there. Israel flattens entire neighborhoods because that is what they want to do. "Terrorists" is just their lame excuse.
> 
> You need to get off this human shield propaganda canard.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> •  The tactic is still used, and still working every day.  As an example, the HAMAS operatives are among the rioters on the border.  The use of the Gazan civilian population as human shields: each time the shield fails and civilians suffer casualties, these casualties are used as propaganda props and the focus of anti-Israeli news articles.
> 
> 
> View attachment 250855
> 
> *HAMAS Systematic Use of Civilians to Promote Terrorism*
> * by Yaakov Lappin
> Special to IPT News
> March 4, 2019*
> •  See LINK for complete Article  •​It is not propaganda if it is true.
> 
> The *Court of Justice of the European Union* declares that the General Court should not have annulled
> HAMAS’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations
> and refers the case back to the General Court​
> The more people attempt to support and defend HAMAS as something other than a "Terrorist Organization," or engaging in political advocacy, the great the need becomes to correct the impression that the status of HAMAS as a terrorist organization is debatable or questionable.  Such political advocacy for HAMAS is merely skirting the law on providing material support.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Ah, Israel's old terrorist canard. All colonialists use the same shtick.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The tactic is still used, and still working every day. As an example, the HAMAS operatives are among the rioters on the border. The use of the Gazan civilian population as human shields: each time the shield fails and civilians suffer casualties, these casualties are used as propaganda props and the focus of anti-Israeli news articles.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are they shielding? I have seen no Hamas flags, no uniforms, no guns.
Click to expand...


OMG! Terrorists with no flags or uniforms...….ridiculous!!


----------



## Mindful

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The tactic is still used, and still working every day. As an example, the HAMAS operatives are among the rioters on the border. The use of the Gazan civilian population as human shields: each time the shield fails and civilians suffer casualties, these casualties are used as propaganda props and the focus of anti-Israeli news articles.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are they shielding? I have seen no Hamas flags, no uniforms, no guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG! Terrorists with no flags or uniforms...….ridiculous!!
Click to expand...


Yeah. There's just been one on a Dutch tram  in Utrecht. Dressed like everyone else.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*O-blah-blah-ma: 'US offers endless talks' to kill clock for Israel against Palestine?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## xband

I'm surprised that the Arabs aren't protesting about Zion National Park.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*Mother celebrated daughter's suicide bombing as her wedding, on PA TV*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'The Sacred & the Profane' - Kalimat - Palestinian Literature Festival - Bethlehem, 6 November 2018*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *'The Sacred & the Profane' - Kalimat - Palestinian Literature Festival - Bethlehem, 6 November 2018*
> 
> **



Q. How come biggest "Palestinian" literature work 
is a series of books written by Jews in Hebrew?

Now You can do the scared duck dance.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



No one is tear gassed, arrested, or killed ''merely' because they were born ArabPalestinian.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Who allowed that woman out with exposed hair?

Beat her!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*ArtBegetsSpirit: Introducing Lubna Masarwa on 'Palestine & Activism'*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Except for the small sect of Neturai Karta, all the Jews who are against the "occupation" are only talking about the West Bank, not all of Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Lubna Masarwa on 'Palestine & Activism'*



In Arabic,
Masarwa =  Egyptian.

They're descendants of Egyptian soldiers of Pasha Ali's army, who invaded and settled whole villages as a separate clan, around the same time as the 1st Zionist immigration.

What makes Egyptians so "Palestinian"?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Yea , they’re for the “ Two State Solution “. Keep Posting!!!


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


>



They were out in the sun too long


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were out in the sun too long
Click to expand...


Too long in the sun being busy executing gays?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



You have any pictures of the Palestinian ambulances that were transporting terrorists, bombs and rockets?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




“ Israeli Occupation “ since 1948? Please tell us why the International Community FORMALLY recognized that area of being part of Egypt till 1967. Keep posting !!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Israel is committing a "slow genocide by starvation".  Don't be ridiculous.  Israel is providing humanitarian assistance to Gaza daily by the hundreds of truckloads.  The crisis in Gaza is one of economic disparity and diversion of supplies, not a lack of calories.  Hamas is responsible.


----------



## P F Tinmore

These types of bullets, which are banned internationally, have been used by Israeli occupation against Palestinian civilians, mainly during the large return March, in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> These types of bullets, which are banned internationally, have been used by Israeli occupation against Palestinian civilians, mainly during the large return March, in Gaza.



Seriously?

You just pluck a random photo of bullets off the internet and claim that Israel is evil?!  No one takes you seriously anymore.  Just because you post a lot of bullshit pictures doesn't make you credible.  Or even interesting.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




From Hamas and Fatah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The wedding of Anton Hallak to Adele Alonzo, St. Peter’s Church in Jaffa, September 5, 1943


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Yep.  Uh huh.  So when you say "end the occupation" and "free Palestine" you mean -- clearly -- dismantle Israel and replace it with an Arab State with no credible or capable government and remove all trace of Jewish indigeneity or culture.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




You disingenuously neglected to show the knives, bombs, guns and other weapons used BY ARAB PALESTINIANS to murder Jews. 

Look, you can't have it both ways (no matter how hard you try).  EITHER Arab Palestinians are innocent victims who pose no danger to Jews and Israel OR Arab Palestinians have the right to resist and ARE resisting and DO pose a danger to Jews, in which case Jews are only defending themselves.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> These types of bullets, which are banned internationally, have been used by Israeli occupation against Palestinian civilians, mainly during the large return March, in Gaza.



How can you tell those are Israeli bullets?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  Uh huh.  So when you say "end the occupation" and "free Palestine" you mean -- clearly -- dismantle Israel and replace it with an Arab State with no credible or capable government and remove all trace of Jewish indigeneity or culture.
Click to expand...


You don’t HONESTLY expect a response from him, do you? Just take pleasure in his misery . I do


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  Uh huh.  So when you say "end the occupation" and "free Palestine" you mean -- clearly -- dismantle Israel and replace it with an Arab State with no credible or capable government and remove all trace of Jewish indigeneity or culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don’t HONESTLY expect a response from him, do you? Just take pleasure in his misery . I do
Click to expand...



Meh. He hardly ever responds to me. That's how I know I'm getting to him. Grin.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


>



If they are so poor how can they afford a Samsung smart phone? Price is like $800?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Need a tighter embargo, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*  Uniting Fatah, Not Palestine: The Dubious Role of Palestine’s New Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh  *
 
*Shtayyeh’s mission will ultimately fail, for his mandate is to reunite Fatah behind Abbas, not the Palestinian people behind a truly democratic and representative leadership aimed at ridding Palestine from its Israeli occupiers.*


by  Ramzy Baroud


----------



## P F Tinmore

After a long winter these beautiful Jeruslaem artichokes are strong and ready! #artichoke #jerusalem #darjacir #palestineheirloomseedlibrary


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> After a long winter these beautiful Jeruslaem artichokes are strong and ready! #artichoke #jerusalem #darjacir #palestineheirloomseedlibrary



Are those Muslims holding a Capital of Israel artichoke?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel arrests Palestinian woman for a Facebook post*





According to the Asra Media Office, Abu Sneineh was arrested at the military checkpoint located at the main entrance to the Old City, west of the Ibrahimi Mosque, as a result of a Facebook post she wrote about Al-Aqsa Mosque.

According to the Palestinian Prisoners’ Centre (PPC), Israel had arrested more than 500 Palestinians, including women and children, as a result of their social media posts by May last year.

Israel arrests Palestinian woman for a Facebook post


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel arrests Palestinian woman for a Facebook post*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Asra Media Office, Abu Sneineh was arrested at the military checkpoint located at the main entrance to the Old City, west of the Ibrahimi Mosque, as a result of a Facebook post she wrote about Al-Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> According to the Palestinian Prisoners’ Centre (PPC), Israel had arrested more than 500 Palestinians, including women and children, as a result of their social media posts by May last year.
> 
> Israel arrests Palestinian woman for a Facebook post



The Koran doesn't say women can use the Internet. Stone her!!!!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Do they have any concrete they aren't using to build terror tunnels?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Reminds me of the Yom Kippur War. Keep posting !!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## AzogtheDefiler




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


>



Their “ religion “


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where is the You Tube Video of the Hasidim  protesting because they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist??


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the You Tube Video of the Hasidim  protesting because they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist??
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is the You Tube Video of the Hasidim  protesting because they don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist??
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Are these the “ Real Jews” who don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist? Keep posting!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>






KEEP POSTING!


----------



## The Original Tree

*Israel’s Borders have been enlarged by God’s will and will continue to be enlarged by His Word!*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*1st Peoples, Palestine, and the Crushing of Free Speech - Steven Salaita*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Abbas Refuses to Make Peace without Jerusalem

 Denying Israel's right to Jerusalem and the Western Wall which they should have had since 1948?   Keep posting!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *1st Peoples, Palestine, and the Crushing of Free Speech - Steven Salaita*
> 
> **



Oh my.  Frankly, too boring to listen to, but I did a little reading on the speaker.   He said this gem:

_Those in the Arab World can explore the implications of discussing the United States and Canada as settler colonies rather than merely as imperial powers._

Is he not aware of the irony of discussing "the Arab world" in the context of settler colonies and imperial powers?


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


>



Read Benny Morris excoriate Pappe as "one of the world's sloppiest historians" and "one of the most dishonest."

The Liar as Hero


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli troops attacking unarmed civilians, *as usual.*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli troops attacking unarmed civilians, *as usual.*
> 
> **



And *as usual* those "unarmed protesters" come to provoke police and soldiers on the roads.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where does Mr. Pappe live, in which country?
Did he move to Ramallah or become a subject of the Spanish king?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Trying to sweep under the carpet the recent scandal...
Why would she suggest lifting her grandmother from the ground?

Arabs and Muslims have to learn to live with the idea that they won't dominate the entire middle east, period.
They can try to make other countries hostile to Israel, or run blood libels against the Jewish communities in countries where they themselves appeared only recently, but that only forces their enemies to strengthen Israel.


----------



## rylah

Won't be too long until Tlaib is called a Mossad agent...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Where Should The Birds Fly - Mona's Story*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*What does "The Israel Lobby - US" documentary reveal about the lobby in America? - Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore

Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?


It was just a meaningless post.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *What does "The Israel Lobby - US" documentary reveal about the lobby in America? - Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **












Al -Monitor : Middle East Lobbying

But...but...but...let's all pretend this is unusual and obsess about some campfire Jewish conspiracy theory.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
Click to expand...

P F Tinmore

Then let me ask it more directly,
do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A land without people.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *A land without people.*



No mention of place, or date, or who were the actual people.

There sure were feudal families installed as governors by the Ottoman Caliphate, 
they were brought from every corner of the empire, as were the scarce residents before the Zionist enterprise.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




No one in the middle east has all those civil rights that Israel provides to its citizens.
Can't demand civil rights from another country while holding citizenship of a hostile government.
I think that's a simple concept to comprehend.

Neither do civil rights increase with grabbing a soldier's gun, quiet the opposite.
Try doing that to a Canadian soldier and tell us how that story ends,

 will ya?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Sure they do.  They have every right to absorb the consequences of attacking an LEO.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Then let me ask it more directly,
> do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?
Click to expand...


You’re not going to get a response. Ask him simple questions like their stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel and the Western Wall and there is silence. Consider the source.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Then let me ask it more directly,
> do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not going to get a response. Ask him simple questions like their stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel and the Western Wall and there is silence. Consider the source.
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel


I never said it didn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Then let me ask it more directly,
> do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not going to get a response. Ask him simple questions like their stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel and the Western Wall and there is silence. Consider the source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said it didn't.
Click to expand...


Never said you did. I was referring to their stance that Israel has no Right to Jerusalem or the Western Wall.  When asked about their forbidding Jews at the Western Wall if they ever got control of E. Jerusalem there is no response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Q.What was funny about the notion that Arabs and Muslims,
> must learn to live with the idea that they don't dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Then let me ask it more directly,
> do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not going to get a response. Ask him simple questions like their stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel and the Western Wall and there is silence. Consider the source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said it didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said you did. I was referring to their stance that Israel has no Right to Jerusalem or the Western Wall.  When asked about their forbidding Jews at the Western Wall if they ever got control of E. Jerusalem there is no response.
Click to expand...

OK, so?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Its shocking that anyone can say with a straight face, in an international forum, that the "March of Return" is a peaceful demonstration of music and poetry readings.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Unless Google is mentioned in the Koran, you can't use it. Infidel!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually, it's the Palestinians that don't really exist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a meaningless post.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore
> 
> Then let me ask it more directly,
> do YOU want Arabs and Muslims to dominate the entire middle east?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not going to get a response. Ask him simple questions like their stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel and the Western Wall and there is silence. Consider the source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> stating that Judaism has no historical ties to Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said it didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said you did. I was referring to their stance that Israel has no Right to Jerusalem or the Western Wall.  When asked about their forbidding Jews at the Western Wall if they ever got control of E. Jerusalem there is no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...


Nothing to say about their stance that if they ever got control of E. Jerusalem the Israelis would be forbidden to pray at one of their most Religious Sites 
 You are the one who states that with the existence of the Jewish State people are not treated with equality.  Just exposed more of your hypocrisy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



According to Jose, Semitic ppl can't be blond, so is she really Palestinian?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, they “ stole” from Egypt, Syria and Jordan who initiated the 67 War to obliterate Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



How terrible. There is nothing wrong with wishing the destruction of Israel will ALL of Jerusalem ( including W. Jerusalem) as the Capital. I think they should receive the Nobel Peace Prize.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



All for good reason.  Muslims are far from angels.  They even kill their own kind.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Yep.  When people show you who they are, believe them.  When people attempt to erase the history of a peoples and an actual, existing State, believe them.  When people demonstrate replacement theory or theology, believe them.  When people choose to ignore reality, believe them.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Shopping the stock photos now?  Lame.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Right?!  Because everyone KNOWS Jews are not permitted to live near Arab Muslims!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Illegal construction is hardest on the children.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Zuckerberg!!!!

He's Jewish, right?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wimps!
If they were Muslim, she'd be beheaded already.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Who is the genius that told those morons to use rocks against soldiers?

It was probably someone from a long line of cousin marriages.


----------



## beautress

P F Tinmore said:


>


Mr. Tinmore, just so you'll know, area children younger than this one have had bombs strapped to their torso and blown up many people. Just so you'll know.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

beautress said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Tinmore, just so you'll know, area children younger than this one have had bombs strapped to their torso and blown up many people. Just so you'll know.
Click to expand...


He knows; Just won’t admit it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Did I already say those who love the Jihadis, also coincidently hate America?

Ask them if they want Islam to dominate the entire middle east, and crickets...
But that their Jihadi heroes murder Muslims by the millions is somehow always justified.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian Leaders Punish Gaza, Blame Israel*


*by Khaled Abu Toameh
March 28, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*Palestinian Leaders Punish Gaza, Blame Israel*




HRather than demanding that Hamas cease and desist from endangering the lives of Palestinians by sending them to clash with Israeli soldiers, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and its leaders are condemning Israel for perpetrating "crimes" against Palestinians. According to the logic of the PA, the conflict started when Israel fired _back_.


Abbas and his officials have apparently not heard of the arson kites and booby-trapped balloons that have been launched from the Gaza Strip towards Israeli towns on nearly a daily basis over the past few months. They also apparently have not have not heard of the rockets and mortars that are fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel almost every day. The PA further appears unaware that Hamas has been sending thousands of Palestinians to attack Israeli soldiers with explosive devices, firebombs and rocks.


Abbas and the PA are simply doing the one thing they are good at: trying to frame Israel for Palestinian crimes against their own people. Clearly, the PA leaders are afraid to condemn the rocket attacks on Israel. They evidently do not want to be accused by their people of betraying the Palestinian "resistance" against Israel.






Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority (PA) are doing the one thing they are good at: trying to frame Israel for Palestinian crimes against their own people. (Photo by Stephanie Keith/Getty Images)

On the one hand, the PA is accusing Israel of imposing restrictions on the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. On the other hand, it is the PA itself that is punishing the people there by cutting their salaries and firing thousands of civil servants. When Palestinians in the West Bank took to the streets to protest the PA sanctions against the Gaza Strip, the PA sent its security forces to break up the protests and arrest many of the demonstrators. This is the same PA that is now accusing Israel of using force to disperse Palestinian protesters at the Gaza-Israel border.

Until a few days ago, the PA was accusing Hamas of committing crimes against unarmed Palestinians protesting the high cost of living and increased taxation by Hamas. Now, the PA is denouncing Israel for targeting Hamas after Hamas fired rockets into Israeli towns.

One PLO official, Tayseer Khaled, went as far as likening Hamas's repressive measures to those of Nazi Germany's secret police, the Gestapo. Another Palestinian official, Jamal Muheissen, said that Hamas was like a terrorist group that has hijacked an airplane.

Last week, Abbas himself denounced Hamas as "dogs" and said that it will end up in the dustbin of history. "They [Hamas] can go to hell; those dogs," Abbas said while he was visiting in hospital a senior Fatah official who was reportedly badly beaten by Hamas members in the Gaza Strip. The official, Atef Abu Seif, was transferred from the Gaza Strip to a hospital in Ramallah.

Abbas and the PA are furious because Hamas militiamen and security officers have been breaking the arms and legs of protesters in the Gaza Strip. They do not seem overly concerned, however, when Hamas or other groups in the Gaza Strip indiscriminately fire rockets and booby-trapped balloons at Israeli civilians.

Abbas and the PA are simply doing the one thing they are good at: trying to frame Israel for Palestinian crimes against their own people. Only when Hamas beats the brains out of PA supporters do Abbas and his associates respond. As far as they are concerned, rockets and mortars can explode to their hearts' content -- as long as they land on Israeli homes. Thanks to this double game, which the PA has been playing for a long time, Abbas and his senior officials appear increasingly to be losing credibility among their people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lamis Deek

*Terrorist Plotter or Man Set Up by Police?*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



That’s right; Blame the West. Don’t blame the MUSLIMS. If they were Jewish we all know who would be blamed.  Keep posting!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rania Elhilou, communications officer with ANERA. Location: Gaza Strip


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Artist Najat El-Khairy's Invitation To The Ninth Annual International Al-Awda Convention*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Palestinian terrorism is roughest on the children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

One of over 200 killed in the Great March of Return's one year of protesting for freedom under the decade's long blockade of Gaza.

“Yaser Murtaja was a civilian and a journalist who was wearing clear press identification


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> One of over 200 killed in the Great March of Return's one year of protesting for freedom under the decade's long blockade of Gaza.
> 
> “Yaser Murtaja was a civilian and a journalist who was wearing clear press identification



Did he drive an ambulance carrying rockets and explosives too?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> One of over 200 killed in the Great March of Return's one year of protesting for freedom under the decade's long blockade of Gaza



They aren't protesting for "freedom".  They aren't even protesting for "return".  They are protesting Jewish self-determination and sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of over 200 killed in the Great March of Return's one year of protesting for freedom under the decade's long blockade of Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't protesting for "freedom".  They aren't even protesting for "return".  They are protesting Jewish self-determination and sovereignty.
Click to expand...

They started out by calling it colonialism then later called it self determination.

When did that happen?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of over 200 killed in the Great March of Return's one year of protesting for freedom under the decade's long blockade of Gaza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't protesting for "freedom".  They aren't even protesting for "return".  They are protesting Jewish self-determination and sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They started out by calling it colonialism then later called it self determination.
> 
> When did that happen?
Click to expand...


After Israel became a state in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> They started out by calling it colonialism then later called it self determination.
> 
> When did that happen?



I'd imagine right around the time the term "self-determination" came into use.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Boycott Divestment & Sanctions: An Interview in Gaza with Haidar Eid*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Boycott Divestment & Sanctions: An Interview in Gaza with Haidar Eid*
> 
> **




Well, he is wrong on nearly everything he says, but two things caught my ear:

1.  That States built along ethno-religious nationalism are a thing of the last century.  Um, no.  Actually, its the standard in the world, right up to this very decade.  Arabs just trying to come up with lame excuses for why everyone can have ethno-religious nationalism except the Jewish people.

2.  That most of the six million Arab Palestinian "refugees" are living in "horrible conditions".


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samia Halaby Keynote at Palestine Museum US Opening | April 22, 2018*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*words speech about surfing in gaza from suheir hammad*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab - Palestine: The Ongoing Nakba*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Jennifer Jajeh, and Her one woman show I Heart Hamas*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inside the Church of the Nativity, Bethlehem*

*




*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



They need some of that terror tunnel and rocket money, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Free Palestine: Report back from the World Social Forum*

**
**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



  I actually find this quite funny...…..


To the Palestinians, this is the " Two State Solution"  Keep posting


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Most of your lame photo posts attempting to convince people that Israel (and Jews) is evil are stock photos which are difficult to trace back to origins, but this one can be found. 

Its an article about homeless children from February, 2017.  *In Tehran. *


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Beirut, Lebanon.  September, 1982.  Taken by Steve McCurry.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rula Jebreal: My “Secret Interview” with Jamal Khashoggi Before His Brutal Murder by the Saudis*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Haven't you ever seen anyone play "Catch" before.

•  Jump to navigation Jump to search:  "Catch" is one of the most basic children's games, often played between children _(Arab Palestinian)_ or between a parent _(Israeli Border Police)_ and child _(Arab Palestinian)_, wherein the participants throw a ball, beanbag, Flying disc or *similar object* back and forth to each other.
*SOURCE:*  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​Certainly nothing sinister in this picture.  It is non-lethal.  Just an Israeli Police Officer establishing community relations.

Most Respectfully,
R



P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

Interesting angle of Jerusalem painted by Nathaniel Everett Green (21 August 1823 – 10 November 1899), who was an English painter, art teacher and astronomer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



You've already been informed multiple times that the Neturai Karta is a tiny fringe element of Jews, who are looked upon as traitors and are generally despised by the vast majority of world Jewry.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Slay In Your Lane - Joudie Kalla*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi backs Ilhan Omar, calling for 'open and honest discourse'*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Remi Kanazi backs Ilhan Omar, calling for 'open and honest discourse'*
> 
> **




"We have to cut our direct lines of complicity with the occupation and apartheid".

Now You know why the PLO offices in Washington were closed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This house was never inhabited.
It's in the same neighborhood from where they shoot all of their rockets, which they keep in ruins for propaganda purposes. These people could arrive at the set in one of those sports cars and go back to their luxury house like the 90% of the houses in Gaza, once the set is finished.

Most of Gaza is above average world middle class.

*Over 20.000 thousand luxury cars in Gaza today*
6000 cars are in Ashdod ready to be delivered to Gaza – Until now the cars came to Gaza trough Egypt, using the tunnels. Most of the cars that arrive to Gaza are BMW  VOLVO  and MERCEDES BENZ  all new , zero km. Because of the smuggling, those cars were sold at around $140.000 . Now, that they will arrive trough Israel, the price is going to go down by 70% There is no request for cheap cars in Gaza….. The process of import is still not finally resolved because of a lack of agreement between Hamas and the Palestinian Authorities, related to the Hamas demand of high part of the financial revenues from the new cars waiting to be imported. There are more than 20.000 thousand luxury cars in Gaza today.
(_AlJazeera    29/7/2010)_






So is in Israel, if someone drives a luxury sports car, in 8 out of 10 times is Arab.
There's a reason why they're called "cream Arabs" in other countries, and why they're a community happier than vast majority of citizens of Arab governed states.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*I thought BDS was illegal in France.*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ghada Karmi Interview at the Edinburgh International Book Festival*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The legal battle for justice against Israeli settlers - Martin McMahon*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *I thought BDS was illegal in France.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *









Wow, and I thought rape was illegal in France...
Guess not if a bunch of Jihadis say otherwise.

How many cases of rape in the US?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *The legal battle for justice against Israeli settlers - Martin McMahon*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I thought BDS was illegal in France.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, and I thought rape was illegal in France...
> Guess not if a bunch of Jihadis say otherwise.
> 
> How many cases of rape in the US?
Click to expand...


The invasion of Muslim Scum in France is so bad that there are areas where  Non Muslims can’t even go; it’s worth their lives


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I thought BDS was illegal in France.*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, and I thought rape was illegal in France...
> Guess not if a bunch of Jihadis say otherwise.
> 
> How many cases of rape in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The invasion of Muslim Scum in France is so bad that there are areas where  Non Muslims can’t even go; it’s worth their lives
Click to expand...


Well, I don't know about France,
but when I arrived in Germany with a big suitcase and my middle eastern looks,
I had police patrol literally running away several times when I approached to ask for directions at night.
There were no sirens, as in emergency call, they just ran away pedal to the metal.

The immigrant neighborhood neither had police presence, but You can get in if You don't stand out too much and have local friends. My friend was an immigrant from an African country who lived in Britain for several decades - he was one of those guys who make "peace" between the different migrant groups in the neighborhood.

Didn't beleive him first, but I did see how people from all of those different communities constantly approach him with most respect . Then once we happened to confront some drunk Jordanians and Algerians who all claimed to have relatives in Gaza (this was during a war),though he assured me to be calm, I was sure the bottles would be broken for a fight as they kept saying "Yahood yahood" and getting nervous - but they never dared cross a line that he pointed at on the street.

The guy lived in the heart of that neighborhood, and was a staunch Israel supporter.
Told me "Never forget You're Israel!"


----------



## The Original Tree

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Fake Palestinian: "Why you arrest me for using my slingshot and firebombs against you?"

Israeli Police:  "You do realize that is a weapon and you can kill someone with it, and that you could seriously injure someone with your firebombs, right?"

Fake Palestinian: "Why are you arresting me for being Palestinian?"*

*
*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>


In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.

597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.  

We DID return. - Israel


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
Click to expand...


597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?

BTW, Great rebuttal!


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
Click to expand...


Islamic Conquest.


----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
Click to expand...

Assyrian Captivity?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

The Original Tree said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assyrian Captivity?
Click to expand...


Assyrians were before the Babylonians.  Shusha already answered my question.


----------



## The Original Tree

Shusha said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islamic Conquest.
Click to expand...

*638 AD I'd agree.   But it was more of a war of attrition.*


----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assyrian Captivity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Assyrians were before the Babylonians.  Shusha already answered my question.
Click to expand...

Correct


----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In memory of all those who lost their lives, their homes, and their lands.
> 
> 597 BCE.  70 CE.  638 CE.
> 
> We DID return. - Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 597 was the Babylonian Exile and 70 was the Roman Exile.  What was 638?  Was that the Bar Kokhba Rebellion?
> 
> BTW, Great rebuttal!
Click to expand...

*HISTORICAL TIMELINE FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE*
*https://www.cfi.org.uk/downloads/Historical Timeline.pdf*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yep. And THAT's the difference between Israelis and Arab Palestinians. The worst thing Arabs can imagine is their child being arrested for committing violent crimes. 

And the worst thing Israelis can imagine is finding their entire family has been stabbed to death by Arab terrorists, including a three month old baby with its throat slit.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why is a Pally thug posing for this picture?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Killing terrorists while they hide in schools. That's just good targeting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek EXPOSES Zionist Israel & their wicked Weapons*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Wedding of Ibrahim Beidas (son of renown writer and educator Khalil Beidas) and Najla Muammar, YMCA gardens, Jerusalem, c. 1935


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Funny.  Because her family complained that every time they came to visit she was at medical appointments.  At Hadassah Medical Center Ein Kerem. 

And she was a terrorist carrying an explosive device.

I can't fathom how anyone can believe such nonsense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashid Khalidi discusses the status of Jerusalem with Helena Cobban


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lara Kiswani, "Why Does Your Organization Participate in the Stop Urban Shield Coalition?"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Behind the scenes - 'So Serious' video shoot, Logic featuring Shadia Mansour.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

Tinmore is so funny.  Where does he get this shit?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hi  Here we go again; some more You Tube of Hasidic Jews claiming Israel has no right to exist. 
   Clearly the poster had no idea why this is so or he wouldn’t be making such a fool of himself.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

MJB12741 said:


> Tinmore is so funny.  Where does he get this shit?



They should have put more makeup under his left eye


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Kalimat Literature Festival in Bethlehem*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another blond-haired, blue-eyed Palestinian.  According to Jose, Jews who have blond hair and blue eyes are not Semites.  So she can't be a Semite either.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



I can't read the Arabic caption.  What is this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't read the Arabic caption.  What is this?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*12 Years of Resistance in Bil'in • Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here we go again.... quoting the Hasidism. I’ve read a lot of stupid posts but this one takes the cake


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again.... quoting the Hasidic Jew.  I’ve read a lot of stupid posts but this one takes the cake
Click to expand...


I've already told him numerous times that not only does this viewpoint not represent about 98 to 99% of world Jewry, but not even the vast majority of Hasidic Jews.  In fact, only the tiny sect of Neturai Karta is against the State of Israel, and they are despised by most Jews for their treason.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again.... quoting the Hasidic Jew.  I’ve read a lot of stupid posts but this one takes the cake
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've already told him numerous times that not only does this viewpoint not represent about 98 to 99% of world Jewry, but not even the vast majority of Hasidic Jews.  In fact, only the tiny sect of Neturai Karta is against the State of Israel, and they are despised by most Jews for their treason.
Click to expand...



Neturei Karta - Wikipedia

This is something that I have posted Numerous times.  Apparently he's too stupid to comprehend it


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Her hair is visible.....stone the infidel!!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her hair is visible.....stone the infidel!!!
Click to expand...


Probably not a Virgin either


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I've already told him numerous times that not only does this viewpoint not represent about 98 to 99% of world Jewry, but not even the vast majority of Hasidic Jews.  In fact, only the tiny sect of Neturai Karta is against the State of Israel, and they are despised by most Jews for their treason.



Not only Neturei Karta, but Rabbinic courts of even most critical of Israel, have officially defined them, about 12 years ago, as "collaborators with the enemies of the Jewish people", I've brought up that document a couple of times.

It's called Din Rodef, a person who pursues to kill You.
But we don't have the authority to Diney Nefashot (death sentence) in this age, so all big communities were warned regarding them, and called to immediately do a soul search, again even by the most critical of Israel.

But frankly, most of them are nice normative people, and if their Rabbis say "don't vote", they'll tell You it's good that You vote if Your Rabbi said. It's more a family thing than ideology.

I know guys who learn in a Yeshiva in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem, Hassidim of Rabbi Kook ZTZ"L,
they meet frequently and celebrate holidays together.

I've learned not to judge them by the misdeeds of a handful who don't even represent them.


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Here we go again.... quoting the Hasidism. I’ve read a lot of stupid posts but this one takes the cake



Yes, probably because NK are themselves younger than even the reform movement, and certainly Zionism.
A Jew is a Zionist by definition, in every Jew there's a part of Jerusalem.

Hassidim are supposed to be those who go beyond the letter of the law, not outlaws, but more than the minimum expected. Too, Zionist to the core, even more than 99% of Israeli politicians.

I like my Hassidim...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi



Wow, nice collection of idiots you have there...….


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi



Wonder if Marc Hill is going to do chant his favorite song; “ From the River to the Sea “ Palestine “ will be set free”.  Keep posting !!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi



Is appeal to skin color all You have left?

One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.

That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.

I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.

 Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
Click to expand...


When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



12 year old boys shoot mortars into Israeli villages and dig tunnels for Islamist drug and weapon dealers.Their adults praise and value their death more than any other value in life. Their govt pays them 300$  to go get shot in the knee by Israelis, and then abandon their young to monetize on the suffering.

An Israeli highest army commander, a winner of great battles,
was murdered by a 12 year Arab boy.
A Jordanian King was murdered by a young so called 'Palestinian', in the Al Aqsa mosque.
An American president was murdered by a young so called "Palestinian" in L.A.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
Click to expand...

It's like sheeple singing the same song, 
afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
Click to expand...

Does any of that change Israel's policies?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does any of that change Israel's policies?
Click to expand...


You have to be more concrete than that.
Don't just deflect with slogans, quote actual documents You have a problem with.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
Click to expand...

*Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
Click to expand...


Can't answer a question directly?
Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't answer a question directly?
> Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

You didn't understand your question.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does any of that change Israel's policies?
Click to expand...


Be specific.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight's panel on Black-Palestinian Solidarity featuring Dr. Cornel West, Dr. Marc Lamont Hill, and Dima Khalidi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't answer a question directly?
> Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...


He never directly answers a question . One small example; Keeps posting lies about the Hasidism inferring they don’t believe Israel has any ancestral ties to the region. When confronted he stops for awhile then continued posting the same lie


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is appeal to skin color all You have left?
> 
> One big difference between US and the rest of the world, and certainly Israel,
> is that our politicians are not allowed to speak in terms of skin color.
> 
> That the most common libel against Israel is the libel of racial discrimination, couldn't be further from truth, only shows the rooted racism of those who agitate against Israel, at the end of the day You all make it about skin color, You even added the "Black" into the title, where there originally was no.
> 
> I don't know about US passport, but definitions of skin color are not used anywhere in the Israeli passport, or laws. And that someone would keep lying so boldly about specifically this issue makes it the more suspicious.
> 
> Why the insistence to frame the conflict in such terms?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't answer a question directly?
> Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand your question.
Click to expand...


I asked why the need to frame the conflict in terms of race and skin color.
Will there be a straight answer from You?


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> When he has nothing else, he issues 'funnies'.
> 
> 
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't answer a question directly?
> Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand your question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I asked why the need to frame the conflict in terms of race and skin color.
> Will there be a straight answer from You?
Click to expand...



Don't hold your breath.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's like sheeple singing the same song,
> afraid of hearing any voice slightly questioning their prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Talking about the Israel Lobby Matters - Delinda Hanley*
> 
> **
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't answer a question directly?
> Exactly the point, there's no integrity to Your cause if all You do is oppose Israel with stupid slogans and old antisemitic conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't understand your question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I asked why the need to frame the conflict in terms of race and skin color.
> Will there be a straight answer from You?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't hold your breath.
Click to expand...


Still waiting for him to condemn the PLO stance that Jews are NOT entitled to pray at the Western Wall. As I have said many times; Consider the source


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Just in Palestine, A journalist tries to save a Nurse..*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Just in Palestine, A journalist tries to save a Nurse..*



Your point?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Julia Harami Awad with her husband, Steelo Awad and their 3 sons, from oldest to youngest, Elias, George and Theo, on the front steps of their Katamon house, Jerusalem, 1940's


----------



## P F Tinmore

The hustle and bustle of Hebron Road (on the right) and the uphill road that leads to the cemeteries (on the left), outside Jaffa Gate, looking south east, late 1930's


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



False comparison, that's just total none sense.

Israelis don't go into mosques murdering Muslims, in fact the Muslim population in Israel is the biggest population living outside an Arab country, and they're enjoying more prosperity and freedom than in any Arab country.

Muslims on the other hand don't shy away from murdering their own leaders at the Al-Aqsa mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Traditions of Liberation Education - Professor Karma Nabulsi (Oxford University)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another Pro Palestinian lie. He “ forgets “ to mention Rockets, Guns among other weapons.   Talk about being desperate.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi at Palestinian Youth Movement's rally for the 70th Anniversary of the Nakba*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek - A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Maybe they wouldn't lose their kids if they didn't hide behind their women and children, or push their children into harm's way.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>


 Have you been to NY?  Do you know how many homeless ppl live here, without even a tent over their heads?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did he dress up in a costume for Halloween or Purim?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*
> 
> **



I'm curious to know how many ppl here actually watch any of these videos that Tinmore puts up?  A show of hands, please.


----------



## The Original Tree

I love how Hamas and The PLO love to use the bodies of Women and Children as human shields and then to fill the potholes in Gaza.

Gaza was a nice place at one time until the PLO and HAMAS took over and asked Israel to leave.

Now the roads are falling apart, electric grid is falling apart, and most of Gaza is a slum.  That is unless you are a wealthy PLO or HAMAS leader who hordes everything or themselves.


----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to know how many ppl here actually watch any of these videos that Tinmore puts up?  A show of hands, please.
Click to expand...

*Only his HAMAS and PLO allies watch them.*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

The Original Tree said:


> I love how Hamas and The PLO love to use the bodies of Women and Children as human shields and then to fill the potholes in Gaza.
> 
> Gaza was a nice place at one time until the PLO and HAMAS took over and asked Israel to leave.
> 
> Now the roads are falling apart, electric grid is falling apart, and most of Gaza is a slum.  That is unless you are a wealthy PLO or HAMAS leader who hordes everything or themselves.



They destroyed all the greenhouses that the Israelis built in Gaza.  They've spent millions of dollars building tunnels instead of schools and hospitals.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you been to NY?  Do you know how many homeless ppl live here, without even a tent over their heads?
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is a US empire thing.


----------



## The Original Tree

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The Original Tree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love how Hamas and The PLO love to use the bodies of Women and Children as human shields and then to fill the potholes in Gaza.
> 
> Gaza was a nice place at one time until the PLO and HAMAS took over and asked Israel to leave.
> 
> Now the roads are falling apart, electric grid is falling apart, and most of Gaza is a slum.  That is unless you are a wealthy PLO or HAMAS leader who hordes everything or themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They destroyed all the greenhouses that the Israelis built in Gaza.  They've spent millions of dollars building tunnels instead of schools and hospitals.
Click to expand...

*Israel built schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, waterlines, libraries, and all  manner of infrastructure.  PLO and HAMAS wanted to take over, and now they have run everything in to the ground.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to know how many ppl here actually watch any of these videos that Tinmore puts up?  A show of hands, please.
Click to expand...

The thread has more than 186,000 views. Surely someone.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi at Palestinian Youth Movement's rally for the 70th Anniversary of the Nakba*
> 
> **




Yawn..., Here we go again.,,  Israel does not have the Right to Exist.  Maybe they can get the assistance of those Hasidic Jews!!     Keep posting


----------



## The Original Tree

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to know how many ppl here actually watch any of these videos that Tinmore puts up?  A show of hands, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thread has more than 186,000 views. Surely someone.
Click to expand...

*No one wants to hear or see videos dealing with the hatred of Jews and the lies of HAMAS and THE PLO.
No One Watches these who has a brain in this forum.*


----------



## The Original Tree

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi at Palestinian Youth Movement's rally for the 70th Anniversary of the Nakba*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn..., Here we go again.,,  Israel does not have the Right to Exist.  Maybe they can get the assistance of those Hasidic Jews!!     Keep posting
Click to expand...

*Israel is one tiny country.  The Arabs have 100s of countries with 100s of millions of Mooslims there.  Yet they hate Israel. *


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro Palestinian lie. He “ forgets “ to mention Rockets, Guns among other weapons.   Talk about being desperate.
Click to expand...

   I forget something; burning tires in attempts to crash the border. Every one of them deserves to get shot


----------



## ForeverYoung436

The Original Tree said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi at Palestinian Youth Movement's rally for the 70th Anniversary of the Nakba*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn..., Here we go again.,,  Israel does not have the Right to Exist.  Maybe they can get the assistance of those Hasidic Jews!!     Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Israel is one tiny country.  The Arabs have 100s of countries with 100s of millions of Mooslims there.  Yet they hate Israel. *
Click to expand...


Well, not exactly 100's but they're clearly not lacking any land or space.  There are 22 Arab countries and 57 Muslim countries.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mitri Raheb on Empire and Christian-Muslim Relations in the Middle East*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious to know how many ppl here actually watch any of these videos that Tinmore puts up?  A show of hands, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thread has more than 186,000 views. Surely someone.
Click to expand...


I was talking about all the individual videos.


----------



## The Original Tree

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro Palestinian lie. He “ forgets “ to mention Rockets, Guns among other weapons.   Talk about being desperate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I forget something; burning tires in attempts to crash the border. Every one of them deserves to get shot
Click to expand...

*They are throwing Grenades & IEDs at IDF, and actually using slingshots to hurl small explosives at IDF.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The Original Tree said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Pro Palestinian lie. He “ forgets “ to mention Rockets, Guns among other weapons.   Talk about being desperate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I forget something; burning tires in attempts to crash the border. Every one of them deserves to get shot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *They are throwing Grenades & IEDs at IDF, and actually using slingshots to hurl small explosives at IDF.*
Click to expand...


You’re wrong! They are ONLY using slingshots and the Israelis have no right to shoot ( Just KIDDING)Only an  would have posted such an obvious lie


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Umm al-Rihan: Palestinian beauty marred by Israeli settlement*

*



*

*Umm al-Rihan: Palestinian beauty marred by Israeli settlement*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Mindful,



Mindful said:


>


*(QUESTION)*

Just what are we looking at here?  These appear to be live people under the sheets.  Is this some kind of protest? 

V?R
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The hustle and bustle of Hebron Road (on the right) and the uphill road that leads to the cemeteries (on the left), outside Jaffa Gate, looking south east, late 1930's


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



I wonder what they would do to Israelis if they got the chance. Live’s a bitch


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Looks like a typical Israeli breakfast except there's no salad.  Every Israeli breakfast has salad!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a typical Israeli breakfast except there's no salad.  Every Israeli breakfast has salad!
Click to expand...

Indeed, most if the food there is regional not national.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat on Black-Palestinian Solidarity and Palestine As a Progressive Issue*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Ghada Karmi | The Arab World Has NOT Failed The Palestinian People (6/8) | Oxford Union*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad | The Arab World Has Failed The Palestinian People (7/8) | Oxford Union*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*Truth & Lies in BBC Report About Gaza Animal Rescue*
By
Aussie Dave
 - 
April 8, 2019
574
Remember the Gaza zoo where 4 lion cubs died earlier this year?  The zoo owner blamed the deaths on Israel (surprise, surprise), saying the “blockade” had led to a shortage of food and medicine needed to look after the animals, but as I showed at the time, he was keeping them in cages that were way too small to safely house them.

And it looks like I have been vindicated.





More than 40 animals have been moved out of “terrible conditions” in a Gaza Strip zoo to a reserve in Jordan, a welfare group has announced.


Four Paws say they have taken the animals from Rafah Zoo near the border with Egypt.

Lions, monkeys, peacocks and porcupines were among the 47 creatures rescued.

They were sedated for the journey 300 kilometres (190 miles) through Israel, which gave its permission for the transfer.

*Four Paws vet Amir Khalil told the BBC the cages had become too small to house the animals.*

Only birds were left behind at the zoo by the group. Two of the lions saved will eventually be moved to South Africa.

Rafah Zoo was opened in 1999. *Four Paws drew fresh attention to the suffering of its animals earlier this year when a lioness had its claws removed with garden shears so visitors could play with her.*

*Animal rights groups have strongly condemned the zoo’s owner Fathy Jomaa for the treatment of the animals.* Four lion cubs died at the zoo earlier this year, and Mr Jomaa contacted Four Paws to help move the creatures.

Not only was I right about the cage sizes, but this report indicates some further malpractice by the zoo owner.

Truth & Lies in BBC Report About Gaza Animal Rescue


----------



## Mindful

^More.........


Be that's it may, as it may, the BBC wouldn’t be the BBC without taking a dig at Israel (who they did have to admit helped facilitate the transfer of the animals). And in this case, it includes an implication that Gaza residents have no other entertainment options. Because, Israel.

Residents were also sad to see the animals leave.

“The zoo is the only place where we could go for a break,” Husam Sabawei told the BBC. “It was the only place for entertaining our children.”

What a croc. Here are just some of the places I have posted about in the past, where Gazans can take a break, and children be entertained.


----------



## Mindful

When driving through Judea and Samaria, one of the things that really stands out is the insane levels of wealth in the Palestinian towns.

You can see palaces everywhere, not only in cities like Ramallah, but in tiny villages as well.

If you try to find the apartheid roads you will instead find Israeli roads overflowing with Palestinian cars, many beautiful Palestinian cars.

This clip shares some of the wealth witnessed while driving around Palestinian areas. The perception that most people have of this area is categorically wrong.


WATCH: Poor Palestinians? Super-Rich Palestinian Society Exposed


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bibi One More Time? Israeli Elections and Palestine.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*View of Jerusalem taken from the southwest, early 1900's*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dima Khalidi: Pressures on universities to discipline students & faculty for speech activities.*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Didn't you say they were starving?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you say they were starving?
Click to expand...

Those who are unemployed can't afford that stuff.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you say they were starving?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who are unemployed can't afford that stuff.
Click to expand...


Really? Same  in UK. Even some who _are _employed.

They go to food banks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you say they were starving?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those who are unemployed can't afford that stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Same  in UK. Even some who _are. _employed.
> 
> They go to food banks.
Click to expand...

Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

However, there are numerous problems with Palestinian statehood under the current Palestinian leadership and the unrelenting terror and incitement that we’ve witnessed for years.

For one thing, there’s the cautionary tale of the 2005 Gaza disengagement. The Palestinian Authority (PA) is the entity to which Israel would cede authority in any future deal. But a year and a half after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas launched a coup and expelled Fatah — the main constituent party of the PA — from Gaza, and proceeded to conduct an arms and terror buildup that has led to three full-blown wars with Israel during the subsequent 13-plus years.

In the first major test of its ability to provide security and peaceful co-existence, the PA failed miserably.

What would happen if Israel similarly withdrew from the West Bank? In the Bar Ilan speech, Netanyahu said that a future Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized because “we don’t want Kassam rockets on Petah Tikva, Grad rockets on Tel Aviv, or missiles on Ben-Gurion Airport.”‘

More importantly, there’s also the question of the Palestinian commitment to the two-state solution. During the decade from 1999 to 2009, the Palestinians were offered statehood at least twice, and both times refused it.

In 2000, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered a peace deal to PA President Yasser Arafat at Camp David. Arafat rejected the deal, and two months later launched the so-called al-Aqsa Intifada.


No Matter What Happens in the Israeli Election, There Is No Palestinian State to Build


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> However, there are numerous problems with Palestinian statehood under the current Palestinian leadership and the unrelenting terror and incitement that we’ve witnessed for years.
> 
> For one thing, there’s the cautionary tale of the 2005 Gaza disengagement. The Palestinian Authority (PA) is the entity to which Israel would cede authority in any future deal. But a year and a half after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas launched a coup and expelled Fatah — the main constituent party of the PA — from Gaza, and proceeded to conduct an arms and terror buildup that has led to three full-blown wars with Israel during the subsequent 13-plus years.
> 
> In the first major test of its ability to provide security and peaceful co-existence, the PA failed miserably.
> 
> What would happen if Israel similarly withdrew from the West Bank? In the Bar Ilan speech, Netanyahu said that a future Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized because “we don’t want Kassam rockets on Petah Tikva, Grad rockets on Tel Aviv, or missiles on Ben-Gurion Airport.”‘
> 
> More importantly, there’s also the question of the Palestinian commitment to the two-state solution. During the decade from 1999 to 2009, the Palestinians were offered statehood at least twice, and both times refused it.
> 
> In 2000, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered a peace deal to PA President Yasser Arafat at Camp David. Arafat rejected the deal, and two months later launched the so-called al-Aqsa Intifada.
> 
> 
> No Matter What Happens in the Israeli Election, There Is No Palestinian State to Build





Mindful said:


> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is the entity to which Israel would cede authority in any future deal. But a year and a half after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas launched a coup and expelled Fatah — the main constituent party of the PA — from Gaza,




Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there are numerous problems with Palestinian statehood under the current Palestinian leadership and the unrelenting terror and incitement that we’ve witnessed for years.
> 
> For one thing, there’s the cautionary tale of the 2005 Gaza disengagement. The Palestinian Authority (PA) is the entity to which Israel would cede authority in any future deal. But a year and a half after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas launched a coup and expelled Fatah — the main constituent party of the PA — from Gaza, and proceeded to conduct an arms and terror buildup that has led to three full-blown wars with Israel during the subsequent 13-plus years.
> 
> In the first major test of its ability to provide security and peaceful co-existence, the PA failed miserably.
> 
> What would happen if Israel similarly withdrew from the West Bank? In the Bar Ilan speech, Netanyahu said that a future Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized because “we don’t want Kassam rockets on Petah Tikva, Grad rockets on Tel Aviv, or missiles on Ben-Gurion Airport.”‘
> 
> More importantly, there’s also the question of the Palestinian commitment to the two-state solution. During the decade from 1999 to 2009, the Palestinians were offered statehood at least twice, and both times refused it.
> 
> In 2000, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered a peace deal to PA President Yasser Arafat at Camp David. Arafat rejected the deal, and two months later launched the so-called al-Aqsa Intifada.
> 
> 
> No Matter What Happens in the Israeli Election, There Is No Palestinian State to Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is the entity to which Israel would cede authority in any future deal. But a year and a half after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas launched a coup and expelled Fatah — the main constituent party of the PA — from Gaza,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah lost the elections. Hamas was the majority party in the Palestinian Authority.
Click to expand...


Democracy, eh?

No comment.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




KEEP POSTING!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Perspectives on Palestine, Syria, and Yemen - Abby Martin, Mnar Muhawesh, Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ilan Pappé in conversation with Dima Khalidi.*


----------



## Mindful

*What Happens to Palestinians Who Demand a Better Life?*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
April 12, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*What Happens to Palestinians Who Demand a Better Life?*




Mohammed Safi is reported to have lost his eyesight while being held in a Hamas prison. His crime: participation in demonstrations calling for an end to the economic crisis in the Gaza Strip and protesting new taxes imposed by the Hamas rulers.


"The interrogator hit him in the head from behind three times and told him: 'This is so you won't be able to see at all.'" — Ahmed Safi, Mohammed Safi's brother.


Safi simply sought to communicate that Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are living under a brutal Islamist regime that has offered them nothing but terror -- directed towards Israel and towards themselves. He wanted the world to know that Palestinian leaders deflect the heat on the Palestinian street towards Israel.


Safi chose to speak truth to power and place the misery of the Palestinians in Gaza squarely where it belongs: at the feet of Hamas. He paid dearly for that choice. Meanwhile, Hamas leaders can now claim another "achievement" in their jihad against Israel: they managed to transform a clear-headed and courageous young man into a blind and disabled one.







Mohammed Safi (right) reportedly lost his eyesight while being held in a Hamas prison. His crime: participation in demonstrations calling for an end to the economic crisis in the Gaza Strip and protesting new taxes imposed by Hamas. (Image sources: Mohammed Safi - Ahmed Safi/Facebook; Hamas gunmen - Chris McGrath/Getty Images)



Mohammed Safi, 27, is the latest victim of Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist movement that has been controlling the Gaza Strip since 2007.

While voters in Israel were heading to the ballot boxes to elect a new parliament, Safi, who is from the town of Beit Lahia, in the northern Gaza Strip, is reported to have lost his eyesight while being held in a Hamas prison. His crime: participation in demonstrations calling for an end to the economic crisis in the Gaza Strip and protesting new taxes imposed by the Hamas rulers.

The protests -- held under the banner "We Want to Live!" -- were the first anti-Hamas demonstrations of their kind in many years. Thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip took to the streets during the protests and called for solutions to their horrific economic morass, including soaring unemployment and the skyrocketing cost of living.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



I actually think it’s hilarious! They’re complaining about “ Israeli Aggression “ on Temple Mount; the Religious Site they declared was off limits to Jews?  That site isn’t far from the second Temple which would also be off limits. Keep posting !!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashid Khlidi @ 35:00


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Thanks to you and pictures like these, soon this map will show ALL of Eretz Israel under Israeli control (including Judea and Samaria)!  Bye-bye Palestine...all of it!  Netanyahu is making plans to annex huge parts of Judea and Samaria as we speak, with Trump's full knowledge and agreement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




for everyone except Jews.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



by demanding to be treated equally.


There.  Fixed that one for you too.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Sun Will Rise - Is there any hope in Oslo Accords?*

**


----------



## Ropey

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Sun Will Rise - Is there any hope in Oslo Accords?*
> 
> **







Follow the yellow brick road... tinman.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Muslim Clerics - Jews Are the Descendants of Apes, Pigs, And Other Animals

Another lie. This is only one small example  Their Hate, bigotry and Racism has nothing to do with the Creation of the JEWISH STATE


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another failed suicide bomber attempt


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*O-blah-blah-ma: 'US offers endless talks' to kill clock for Israel against Palestine?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*My Father Was a Freedom Fighter: Gaza's Untold Story*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Yawn...,  Just 4 Words
       NO ISRAELIS IN PALESTINE.    Keep posting!!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a pitch using the bid for an emotional appeal.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with "freedom."

It seeks a connection to a mother's sympathy.  It is not a bad technique but used so many times that it becomes a critics choice.

It opens with the peaceful nature of the march, and then it transitions into the standard "parade of the wounded and the dead,"   making sure they center on any children that they can.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

It does not ask even the most basic journalistic interrogatives.

If it was peaceful:

◈   Were there any incendiary devices?

◈   Were there any explosive devices?

◈   Were there any leaders encouraging attempts to rush and breach the border?​
How many former inhabitants of Israel were actually there and taking part.  If they were an infant, they would now be at least 70 years old.

I suspect that if the Gazans had stayed away from the border barriers → there would have been no injuries or death attributed to the Israelis.  The entire event was orchestrated by HAMAS to create a media event and sympathy for the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a pitch using the bid for an emotional appeal.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with "freedom."
> 
> It seeks a connection to a mother's sympathy.  It is not a bad technique but used so many times that it becomes a critics choice.
> 
> It opens with the peaceful nature of the march, and then it transitions into the standard "parade of the wounded and the dead,"   making sure they center on any children that they can.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It does not ask even the most basic journalistic interrogatives.
> 
> If it was peaceful:
> 
> ◈   Were there any incendiary devices?
> 
> ◈   Were there any explosive devices?
> 
> ◈   Were there any leaders encouraging attempts to rush and breach the border?​
> How many former inhabitants of Israel were actually there and taking part.  If they were an infant, they would now be at least 70 years old.
> 
> I suspect that if the Gazans had stayed away from the border barriers → there would have been no injuries or death attributed to the Israelis.  The entire event was orchestrated by HAMAS to create a media event and sympathy for the Arab Palestinians of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It does not ask even the most basic journalistic interrogatives.


Was there an occupation? Was there a siege? Were there regular bombing attacks? Were there regular shootings of civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The day after: opportunities and dangers for Palestine in the Trump era*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

*Great topic.   PALESTINE TODAY!*

https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Palestinian/Pages/Wave-of-terror-October-2015.aspx


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Speech by Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, Michigan Coalition for Human Rights, April 14, 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Super important to know when people try to break down your fence and tear your hearts out.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


>



The earliest mention of the Land as Palestine (probably in reference to the Philistines, a non-Arabic, non-Semitic people from the Greek Isles who invaded the southern coast of the Land in the 2nd half of the 12th Century BCE) is by the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE.

In contrast, one of the earliest mention of the Land as Israel can be found four hundred years earlier in the 9th Century BCE archaeological find the Mesha Stele commissioned by the king of Moab (present-day Jordan) which mentions Israel and a king of Israel, namely, Omri. The Mesha Stele aka Moabite Stone is housed at The Louvre in Paris, France.

Israel precedes Palestine.  The Land is called Israel and the Land belongs to the Jewish People.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


>



There are several Arab members in the Israeli Knesset; Arabs in prominent positions are found in every walk of life in Israel.  No apartheid.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



The earliest mention of the Land as Palestine (probably in reference to the Philistines, a non-Arabic, non-Semitic people from the Greek Isles who invaded the southern coast of the Land in the 2nd half of the 12th Century BCE) is by the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE.

In contrast, one of the earliest mention of the Land as Israel can be found four hundred years earlier in the 9th Century BCE archaeological find the Mesha Stele commissioned by the king of Moab (present-day Jordan) which mentions Israel and a king of Israel, namely, Omri. The Mesha Stele aka Moabite Stone is housed at The Louvre in Paris, France.

Israel precedes Palestine.  The Land is called Israel and the Land belongs to the Jewish People.


P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Elaborate.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Pappe believes he's a historian, 
but most historians don't.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Call no one earth your father, you have but one Father in heaven." - Matthew 23: 9
(I presume it will be "Mr" Sheehan hereon out?)


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pappe believes he's a historian,
> but most historians don't.
Click to expand...


The Liar as Hero


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Azmi Bishara, former Arab Knesset member, and no friend of Israel, said:
"There is no 'Palestine Nation', it's a Colonial invention.  When were there any Palestinians?"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Is this how You excuse open racism against African Americans,
because they were enslaved by their own people?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Really, so when America went to war against the Barbary States it was because they were friends?

You racist filth lie like it's a badge of honor.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Slavery* is institutionalized punishment under Arab rule  for anyone who sells land to Jews
*Apartheid* is the official  Arab demand for a Jew free Palestine
*Colonialism* is the official Palestinian flag representing the 3 invading Caliphates

What on the list are the Jihadi filth not guilty of??


----------



## P F Tinmore

Fighter Belal Muhammad celebrates after his victory over Jordan Mein in their welterweight bout during the UFC 213 event at T-Mobile Arena on 9 July, 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada. [Rey Del Rio/Getty Images]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Those old hags look pretty old to me but they're NOT 5,000 years old.  I wrote a book called "Hollywood and the Bible."  In all these movies, starring such stars as Gregory Peck, Rita Hayward, Yul Brynner, Gina Lollobrigida, Hedy Lamarr, Victor Mature, George C. Scott, Ava Gardener, Peter O'Toole, etc., the Land is called Israel, not Palestine.  Watch them yourself--movies like Samson and Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and Sheba, The Story of Ruth and all the New Testament films.  (Sometimes the land is called Judea in these movies.)  Ben-Hur, starring Charlton Heston, is coming to the Big Screen again to celebrate its 60th anniversary.  In this film, which celebrates the beginning of the Christian faith, the land in question is called Judea, NOT Palestine.  And you call yourself a Christian!


----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,


P F Tinmore said:


> • IMAGE •





P F Tinmore said:


> • IMAGE •


*(QUESTION)*

So what context are you trying to convey?

◈  That police should have exercised a more aggressive control over the non-passive juvenile that was resisting apprehension?

◈   That police should have used restraints to control the non-passive juvenile that was resisting apprehension?​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Is ISIS in Palestine*

Fatah Central Committee Member Jamal Muhaisen said that Hamas is a terrorist movement and that even if it were to rehabilitate the people who were imprisoned or had their arms or legs broken, it would return to its old ways within a matter of months. In a TV interview against the backdrop of the violent crackdown on the economic protests in Gaza, Muhaisen called Hamas "ISIS in Palestine." The interview aired on the official PA TV channel on March 19, 2019.


----------



## rylah

*ISIS in Gaza Burning French Flag*

While Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, doesn’t want ISIS taking over their stomping ground, it allowed a demonstration to go ahead in the streets of Gaza which included the burning of a French flag. Watch footage of the demonstration and flag burning in the video.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> *ISIS in Gaza Burning French Flag*
> 
> While Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, doesn’t want ISIS taking over their stomping ground, it allowed a demonstration to go ahead in the streets of Gaza which included the burning of a French flag. Watch footage of the demonstration and flag burning in the video.



Genesis 16:12 (Gd is speaking to Hagar):  "And he (Ishmael) shall be a wild ass of a man; his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren."  (The last part of the verse is speaking of the Muslims trying to take over Europe, and the whole world, right now.)


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Why Orthodox Jews Oppose Israel

Here we go again!  Posting about Hasidic Jews who don't believe Israel has the Right to Exist


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Abbas Denies Jewish Connection To Israel In Speech To Palestinian Leadership

  Really? The PLO actually stating that Judaism has no Historical or Religious ties to the area?  Keep posting,,,  Making a fool out of yourself.


----------



## Mindful

*Hamas's honesty and the deal of the Century.*
by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •  


Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar's threats serve as a reminder that Hamas and other Palestinian terror group consider Israel one big settlement that needs to be annihilated. Above all, Hamas has never accepted the "two-state solution" or changed its charter, which explicitly states: "When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad [holy war] becomes a duty binding on all Muslims.... We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters."


Hamas cannot reach any political deal with Israel because it does not agree to Israel's right to exist. This is the message that Sinwar and leaders of all Palestinian terror groups want the world to hear. For the terrorist leaders, the only peace they will accept is one that results in the elimination of Israel and the evacuation of all Jews from their homes.


The Hamas Charter is a straightforward, unambiguous message that says: "[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]....There is no solution to the Palestinian problem expect by Jihad."


Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has undoubtedly read the Hamas charter. He knows that if he accepts any peace plan that does not include the expulsion of all Jews from their homes, he will be denounced by his rivals in Hamas as a traitor. Abbas is also aware of Hamas's threats to shower Israel with rockets. He knows that at the same time as Hamas attacks Israel, it will seek to flatten _him_ for "betraying" Arabs and Muslims in "allowing" Jews to continue living in "their" state. This is the Palestinian reality that the "Deal of the Century" is about to be dealt. 

Gatestone Institute


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> *Hamas's honesty and the deal of the Century.*
> by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar's threats serve as a reminder that Hamas and other Palestinian terror group consider Israel one big settlement that needs to be annihilated. Above all, Hamas has never accepted the "two-state solution" or changed its charter, which explicitly states: "When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad [holy war] becomes a duty binding on all Muslims.... We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters."
> 
> 
> Hamas cannot reach any political deal with Israel because it does not agree to Israel's right to exist. This is the message that Sinwar and leaders of all Palestinian terror groups want the world to hear. For the terrorist leaders, the only peace they will accept is one that results in the elimination of Israel and the evacuation of all Jews from their homes.
> 
> 
> The Hamas Charter is a straightforward, unambiguous message that says: "[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem are all opposed contrary  to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]....There is no solution to the Palestinian problem expect by Jihad."
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has undoubtedly read the Hamas charter. He knows that if he accepts any peace plan that does not include the expulsion of all Jews from their homes, he will be denounced by his rivals in Hamas as a traitor. Abbas is also aware of Hamas's threats to shower Israel with rockets. He knows that at the same time as Hamas attacks Israel, it will seek to flatten _him_ for "betraying" Arabs and Muslims in "allowing" Jews to continue living in "their" state. This is the Palestinian reality that the "Deal of the Century" is about to be dealt.
> 
> Gatestone Institute


 If I am not mistaken didn't Hamas once agree to a 10 year " truce?" What the FUCK is that supposed to mean?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hamas's honesty and the deal of the Century.*
> by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •
> 
> 
> Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar's threats serve as a reminder that Hamas and other Palestinian terror group consider Israel one big settlement that needs to be annihilated. Above all, Hamas has never accepted the "two-state solution" or changed its charter, which explicitly states: "When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad [holy war] becomes a duty binding on all Muslims.... We must spread the spirit of Jihad among the [Islamic] Umma, clash with the enemies and join the ranks of the Jihad fighters."
> 
> 
> Hamas cannot reach any political deal with Israel because it does not agree to Israel's right to exist. This is the message that Sinwar and leaders of all Palestinian terror groups want the world to hear. For the terrorist leaders, the only peace they will accept is one that results in the elimination of Israel and the evacuation of all Jews from their homes.
> 
> 
> The Hamas Charter is a straightforward, unambiguous message that says: "[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem are all opposed contrary  to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement [Hamas]....There is no solution to the Palestinian problem expect by Jihad."
> 
> 
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has undoubtedly read the Hamas charter. He knows that if he accepts any peace plan that does not include the expulsion of all Jews from their homes, he will be denounced by his rivals in Hamas as a traitor. Abbas is also aware of Hamas's threats to shower Israel with rockets. He knows that at the same time as Hamas attacks Israel, it will seek to flatten _him_ for "betraying" Arabs and Muslims in "allowing" Jews to continue living in "their" state. This is the Palestinian reality that the "Deal of the Century" is about to be dealt.
> 
> Gatestone Institute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I am not mistaken didn't Hamas once agree to a 10 year " truce?" What the FUCK is that supposed to mean?
Click to expand...

It means that both sides stop their violence then negotiate peace with a different attitude.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Hishmeh Family in front of their house in Talbiyyeh, 1930's or 1940's


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Damn those Hasidic Jews!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian artists and musicians regularly refused visas to attend their own events*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


>


Fuck those terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


>


Why were members of Hamas firing weapons from civilian homes?


----------



## Indeependent

P F Tinmore said:


>


2nd graders reading “How to Make Home Made Bombs”.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


>


The civilian homes with rocket launchers and stockpiled weapons? Fuck those terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Taking aim at civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel's Mass Killings at the Gaza Border w/ Yousef Munayyer*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem Girls College 1937.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nablus Road - Sheikh Jarrah Mosque on the right and the flour mill, Qasr el-Amawi on the left, 1900


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr Mitri Raheb :Seven Things You Never Knew About Palestine And The Palestinians*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Kids Fighting Israel's Occupation*

**
*Ahed Tamimi: Palestine's Freedom Fighter 

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with director Leila Sansour*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour - Faith Led, Justice Driven at CAIR Oklahoma 13th Annual Banquet*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*What is 'Green Cake' and why did this woman invent it? - BBC News*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> [/QUOTE
> 
> GREAT PHOTO.  Way to go Israel to stop the evil little monsters from their endless hatred, violence & attacks.


----------



## MJB12741

GREAT PHOTO. Way to go Israel to stop the evil little monsters from their endless hatred, violence & attacks.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nothing beats the smell of tomato seedlings.   #palestineheirloomseedlibrary*

*



*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn... Maybe the Arabs should have accepted the 67 Borders.  If the Palestinians were serious about “ peace” why do they chant “ From the River to the Sea” and deny Jewish Rights to the Western Wall? ( if they could) There will be no response.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Follow your drive | Marah Zahalka*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israel today


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*100 Ways For Peace From Palestine-samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Blood libel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Did he really, was it before or after they've put the Swastika on the Palestinian flag?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *100 Ways For Peace From Palestine-samih abu zakieh*
> 
> **



Ironically, no "Palestine" mentioned, the song is about Syria.
What a fraud.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



And what of these are the Arabs not guilty of?


----------



## watchingfromafar

Just after this photo was taken the boy was killed by a sniper, or at least that is how I remembered it--


 

The commander later claimed it was in self defence
-


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> Just after this photo was taken the boy was killed by a sniper, or at least that is how I remembered it--
> View attachment 257185
> 
> The commander later claimed it was in self defence
> -



Not really, the photo op had nothing to do with the reasons of his death.
Cheap Jihadi provocations.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Just after this photo was taken the boy was killed by a sniper, or at least that is how I remembered it--
> View attachment 257185
> 
> The commander later claimed it was in self defence
> -



Faris Odeh was killed 10 days later while throwing stones at LEO's at the Karni Crossing.  He was so persistent in his desire to throw stones at Israelis that his father repeatedly tried to restrain him and once tied his hands and feet and left him on the roof.


----------



## rylah

Hamas recruitment add


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




I  AGREE,  KEEP POSTING


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/abbas-is-not-the-problem/
 Don't care, The above reason is just one of many


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is just one more example of a Pseudo-Intellectual Presentation to put a false face on the Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The purpose here is an attempt to lure the audience into the mistaken impression that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip hold some center of intellectual competence through the presentation of something sounding artistic → to induce a sense of shared feelings to illicit tender-heartedness and empathy to their political plight.  This type of fallacy is based on a psychological appeal to subjective interpretations in something totally unrelated to _(in this case)_ the "Question on Palestine."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is just one more example of a Pseudo-Intellectual Presentation to put a false face on the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The purpose here is an attempt to lure the audience into the mistaken impression that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and Gaza Strip hold some center of intellectual competence through the presentation of something sounding artistic → to induce a sense of shared feelings to illicit tender-heartedness and empathy to their political plight.  This type of fallacy is based on a psychological appeal to subjective interpretations in something totally unrelated to _(in this case)_ the "Question on Palestine."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Sour grapes post.
Susan Abulhawa was born to refugees of the Six Day War of 1967, when her family's land was seized and Israel captured what remained of Palestine, including Jerusalem. She moved to the USA as a teenager, graduated in biomedical science and established a career in medical science. In July 2001, Susan Abulhawa founded Playgrounds for Palestine, a children's organisation dedicated to upholding The Right to Play for Palestinian children. Mornings in Jenin is her first novel and is being published in nineteen countries. She lives in Pennsylvania with her daughter.

Bloomsbury - Susan Abulhawa - Susan Abulhawa​https://www.bloomsbury.com/author/susan-abulhawa

You are just jealous because Palestine has so many intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine to the world. Israel lacks such people.


----------



## rylah

["Intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine to the world" ]

*Gazans stone Qatari Envoy after **receiving** $15mil. aid*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ["Intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine to the world" ]
> 
> *Gazans stone Qatari Envoy after receiving $15mil. aid*



In his world this  Israeli intelligence is not winning every War; the above is. Consider this source


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



















Any more stupid questions?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: Job of Muslims Is to Bring "Hateful Infidels" to Islam through Jihad*

Palestinian political researcher Sheikh Ahmad Al-Khatwani address delivered at the Al Aqsa Mosque
March 31, 2019.


"Some people doing something..."


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



They’re sleeping; So what??


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"The two state solution is DEAD - so what Next?"*

**
*Q&A*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *"The two state solution is DEAD - so what Next?"*
> 
> **
> *Q&A*
> 
> **


No wonder the avoidance of panels with actual opponents, that bs is just too embarrassing.






"Indigenous Palestinians" - are those the Arabs who can't even pronounce the name of that land and demand Madrid be returned to the Caliphate?

By the way, the indigenous status of the Jewish nation is recognized both in the language of international law, and by the anthropologist who defined the term for UN, and the Canadian Indigenous rights activists themselves as well.

Sorry for changing such a well written script with facts.


----------



## rylah

*First Nation **Ryan Bellerose on Jewish Indigenous Rights*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *"The two state solution is DEAD - so what Next?"*
> 
> **
> *Q&A*
> 
> **




"...the basic idea of Zionism is the removal of Jews from their home countries to a far away place."

Oh wow.  Seriously?!  And then Ali has the gall to go on and talk about ERASURE and then "truth and reconciliation"?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Except that there IS a "J" in Hebrew, and still no "P" in Arabic:*






Moreover,
the "J" in Jerusalem doesn't come from the native language or the original name
the "P" in Palestine does come from the native language and the original name.
Yet both are used in Hebrew by Jews.

Just goes to show You the pathetic situation of the Jihadi cheerleaders
that they will go with such evident lies to cover the fact -

Arabs can neither pronounce nor write "Palestine".


----------



## rylah

Friday celebrations in Gaza Caliphate


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


We need to make fewer enemies.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
Click to expand...

The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
You're a danger to Your own people.


----------



## rylah

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: Job of Muslims Is to Bring "Hateful Infidels" to Islam through Jihad*

Palestinian political researcher Sheikh Ahmad Al-Khatwani address delivered at the Al Aqsa Mosque
March 31, 2019.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
Click to expand...

Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
Click to expand...


Did You just ask me to tell You what the biggest mass murderers in history did wrong to us??

I don't know about Your tiny bubble, but do You even imagine how many families in America have lost their close ones because of these mass murderers? Do You even imagine how many millions they murdered of their own? All the death in the name of Nazism, Communism and Jihad?






As I've said, You're a danger and support the slime of earth that are enemies of Your people, and pretty much anyone slightly sane.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did You just ask me to tell You what the biggest mass murderers in history did wrong to us??
> 
> I don't know about Your tiny bubble, but do You even imagine how many families in America have lost their close ones because of these mass murderers? Do You even imagine how many millions they murdered of their own? All the death in the name of Nazism, Communism and Jihad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said, You're a danger and support the slime of earth that are enemies of Your people, and pretty much anyone slightly sane.
Click to expand...

You look at life from the top down. I look at it from the bottom up. Very different perspective.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did You just ask me to tell You what the biggest mass murderers in history did wrong to us??
> 
> I don't know about Your tiny bubble, but do You even imagine how many families in America have lost their close ones because of these mass murderers? Do You even imagine how many millions they murdered of their own? All the death in the name of Nazism, Communism and Jihad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I've said, You're a danger and support the slime of earth that are enemies of Your people, and pretty much anyone slightly sane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You look at life from the top down. I look at it from the bottom up. Very different perspective.
Click to expand...


How can one looking from the bottom up, end up siding with the enemies of humanity and the biggest mass murderers in history?

One doesn't end up siding with those who call to annihilate a minority and pretend to care for the people at the bottom. As one doesn't get to pretend he looks from the bottom when siding with those seeking complete domination of entire continents. It just doesn't end up.

Nothing of what You say makes any sense, seems like You just frame everything in terms of skin color.
And as long as anything is done by the class of the perceived inferiority on that ideological scale is fine by You no matter the hundreds of millions impoverished and dead in consequences.

Your perspective is not measured by the outcome of prosperity or equality, but by which skin color or class deserves what on Your scale of racial priority. This is how one ends up siding with those who seek a Jew free state and complete domination of one ethnicity over entire continents, at the expense of all minorities.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

For Manasseh, the Golan... and more. Samaria also is ours.

Netanyahu Declares: Golan Heights Ours From Biblical to Modern Times

Arabia is for Arabs.

No need to discuss... but go ahead and digest.  

After thousands of years and now the tribe of Manasseh is back with Dan on the way.



The Arabs can have Ashdod and Ashkelon.  .  . the home of the Philistines.​


----------



## Ropey

On the other side of the divide.

Feets don't fail them now.


----------



## Ropey

The Mullah's are not impressed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why should students come to BU Law to study international human rights law?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramadan Reflection and Commentary by Sister Laila Al-Marayati *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Dome of the Rock from inside.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
Click to expand...


Let me understand,
Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








No dude, demanding a 23rd Arabs state and not getting it, is not the same as being erased.
He might be brown, yellow or green, using skin color as an excuse for complete domination over minorities is banal racism.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
Click to expand...

Like?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...


Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
do You consider them the allies of America?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> We need to make fewer enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
Click to expand...

Good question. Did they attack the US?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The low You will go to appease the filth of the earth never ceases to amaze me.
> You're a danger to Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are those people enemies. What have they done to us?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me understand,
> Your ally is any genocidal psychopath that declared war on America?
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
Click to expand...

Nice duck.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Khamumeini, Hitler and Arafat,
> do You consider them the allies of America?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
Click to expand...


You side with those who murdered the American president?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Did they attack the US?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
Click to expand...

You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was long after we attacked the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
Click to expand...

The US attacked first.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> As expected, You turn out to be a real patriot.
> So "Palestinians" have a right to murder American Presidents?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked first.
Click to expand...

But for that we have to establish some standards,
if You justify "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy,

does it mean in Your view, those are acceptable means regarding other American Presidents whom "Palestinians" call their enemies?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



You of course won't tell us he went on a murdering spree.

Jihad denied.


----------



## rylah

What's up Tinnie can't answer a question,

what's Your excuse for "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Profiles in Peace: Mayor Vera Baboun*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Profiles in Peace: Mayor Vera Baboun*




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But for that we have to establish some standards,
> if You justify "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy,
> 
> does it mean in Your view, those are acceptable means regarding other American Presidents whom "Palestinians" call their enemies?
Click to expand...

The US attacked the Palestinians first.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Profiles in Peace: Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You side with those who murdered the American president?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But for that we have to establish some standards,
> if You justify "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy,
> 
> does it mean in Your view, those are acceptable means regarding other American Presidents whom "Palestinians" call their enemies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked the Palestinians first.
Click to expand...

You keep repeating that,
but all I see is excuses for Jihad against America.

By promoting the enemy aren't You committing an act of treason?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Profiles in Peace: Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But for that we have to establish some standards,
> if You justify "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy,
> 
> does it mean in Your view, those are acceptable means regarding other American Presidents whom "Palestinians" call their enemies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked the Palestinians first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep repeating that,
> but all I see is excuses for Jihad against America.
> 
> By promoting the enemy aren't You committing an act of treason?
Click to expand...

Over your head, I see.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Profiles in Peace: Mayor Vera Baboun*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You asked if "Palestinians attacked the US".
> Murdering Rebert Kennedy was not an attack on America?
> 
> 
> 
> The US attacked first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But for that we have to establish some standards,
> if You justify "Palestinians" murdering Robert Kennedy,
> 
> does it mean in Your view, those are acceptable means regarding other American Presidents whom "Palestinians" call their enemies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US attacked the Palestinians first.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep repeating that,
> but all I see is excuses for Jihad against America.
> 
> By promoting the enemy aren't You committing an act of treason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Over your head, I see.
Click to expand...


You've sided with the enemies of America, that didn't go over my head,
and still trying to justify the murder of Robert Kennedy by Your Jihadi brides.

What is Your motive behind siding with the enemies of Your own people?


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

He was quite influential for a man with such limited resources. 



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

There is so lasting impact from the Virtue, Power, and Efficacy given by such a personality and character of Malcomb X.  What we have heard, and what we often see from pro-Palestinian activist is an Appeal to False Authority (Malcomb X).  

The evidentiary value from such a contribution by Malcolm X on the topic of the Arab-Israeli Conflict is greatly diminished.

•  Malcolm X was killed in 1965 _(I was around back then)_.  This puts any contributions made lacking the credible knowledge and experiences of:  

◈  The PLO Charter was only 1 year old and lacking any wide distribution.
◈  No knowledge of the 1967Six Day War. 
◈   Black September in Jordan
◈   1973 Yom Kipper War and Arab League Suprize attack.
◈   Camp David meetings (1977-78)
◈   Jordan abandons West Bank (1988)
◈   First Intifada
◈   Oslo Accords
◈   Second Intifada
◈  → Anything in the 21st Century​
Simply, Malcolm X comment on the "Zionist Occupation" of "Arab Palestine" refers singularly to the rejection of the Partition Plan (A/RES/181 II) and the establishment of the Jewish National Home.  This directly relates to the decisions made a century ago by the Allied Powers that control the destiny of the territory.. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> He was quite influential for a man with such limited resources.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 258239
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is so lasting impact from the Virtue, Power, and Efficacy given by such a personality and character of Malcomb X.  What we have heard, and what we often see from pro-Palestinian activist is an Appeal to False Authority (Malcomb X).
> 
> The evidentiary value from such a contribution by Malcolm X on the topic of the Arab-Israeli Conflict is greatly diminished.
> 
> •  Malcolm X was killed in 1965 _(I was around back then)_.  This puts any contributions made lacking the credible knowledge and experiences of:
> 
> ◈  The PLO Charter was only 1 year old and lacking any wide distribution.
> ◈  No knowledge of the 1967Six Day War.
> ◈   Black September in Jordan
> ◈   1973 Yom Kipper War and Arab League Suprize attack.
> ◈   Camp David meetings (1977-78)
> ◈   Jordan abandons West Bank (1988)
> ◈   First Intifada
> ◈   Oslo Accords
> ◈   Second Intifada
> ◈  → Anything in the 21st Century​
> Simply, Malcolm X comment on the "Zionist Occupation" of "Arab Palestine" refers singularly to the rejection of the Partition Plan (A/RES/181 II) and the establishment of the Jewish National Home.  This directly relates to the decisions made a century ago by the Allied Powers that control the destiny of the territory..
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Gaza Marches : We Demand an Islamic Caliphate!*

Speaker of Hizb ut-Tahrir movement Hassan al-Madhoun speaks during a march toward unknown soldier's memorial demanding reconstitution Islamic caliphate, which is abolished 91 years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Elections: Interview with Dr. Mustafa Barghouti*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Mother Proud of Suicide Bomber Son*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 10): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #3 - Omar Barghouti*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Freedom Conference (Pt 10): BDS, A Strategy To Help Free Palestine #3 - Omar Barghouti*
> 
> **


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The question becomes:  What makes you think that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem would be any freer → if the Israelis unilaterally withdrew → than the Arab Palestinians are today???



P F Tinmore said:


> What are you trying to say?


*(COMMENT)*

The game in the Middle East is about gaining governmental control such that the corrupt officials could skim monies off the top of the operating budget, to award contracts to companies that they own a significant interest in → profiting from their position,  buying land and rezoning for resale at inflated prices, etc, etc.

It is not at all about democracy or freedom.  Just look at the development of the Gaza Strip under HAMAS...  

◈  Khaled Mashaal, former Political Leader of Hamas, is worth an estimated $2.6 billion
◈  Dr. Musa Abu Marzook, Deputy Political Bureau Chief of HAMAS, estimated net worth at $2-3 billion.​
Political control is about power and influence.  Power and influence are about the accumulation of wealth.  The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are "inherently corrupt just like their rights.  But in order to maintain their power and influence, they must actually maintain a certain level of tension between the three. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The question becomes:  What makes you think that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem would be any freer → if the Israelis unilaterally withdrew → than the Arab Palestinians are today???
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you trying to say?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The game in the Middle East is about gaining governmental control such that the corrupt officials could skim monies off the top of the operating budget, to award contracts to companies that they own a significant interest in → profiting from their position,  buying land and rezoning for resale at inflated prices, etc, etc.
> 
> It is not at all about democracy or freedom.  Just look at the development of the Gaza Strip under HAMAS...
> 
> ◈  Khaled Mashaal, former Political Leader of Hamas, is worth an estimated $2.6 billion
> ◈  Dr. Musa Abu Marzook, Deputy Political Bureau Chief of HAMAS, estimated net worth at $2-3 billion.​
> Political control is about power and influence.  Power and influence are about the accumulation of wealth.  The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are "inherently corrupt just like their rights.  But in order to maintain their power and influence, they must actually maintain a certain level of tension between the three.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The game in the Middle East is about gaining governmental control such that the corrupt officials could skim monies off the top of the operating budget, to award contracts to companies that they own a significant interest in → profiting from their position, buying land and rezoning for resale at inflated prices, etc, etc.


Oh, they are following the US model?

South Africa ended political apartheid but continued economic apartheid.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The question becomes:  What makes you think that the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Jerusalem would be any freer → if the Israelis unilaterally withdrew → than the Arab Palestinians are today???
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you trying to say?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The game in the Middle East is about gaining governmental control such that the corrupt officials could skim monies off the top of the operating budget, to award contracts to companies that they own a significant interest in → profiting from their position,  buying land and rezoning for resale at inflated prices, etc, etc.
> 
> It is not at all about democracy or freedom.  Just look at the development of the Gaza Strip under HAMAS...
> 
> ◈  Khaled Mashaal, former Political Leader of Hamas, is worth an estimated $2.6 billion
> ◈  Dr. Musa Abu Marzook, Deputy Political Bureau Chief of HAMAS, estimated net worth at $2-3 billion.​
> Political control is about power and influence.  Power and influence are about the accumulation of wealth.  The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are "inherently corrupt just like their rights.  But in order to maintain their power and influence, they must actually maintain a certain level of tension between the three.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The game in the Middle East is about gaining governmental control such that the corrupt officials could skim monies off the top of the operating budget, to award contracts to companies that they own a significant interest in → profiting from their position, buying land and rezoning for resale at inflated prices, etc, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, they are following the US model?
> 
> South Africa ended political apartheid but continued economic apartheid.
Click to expand...


Like this?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








You just keep using those definitions to exclude an ethnic minority as excuse for Jihad.
Is this any different from saying  "No Jews Allowed"?


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just keep using those definitions to exclude an ethnic minority as excuse for Jihad.
> Is this any different from saying  "No Jews Allowed"?
Click to expand...


Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine

PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall

Seriously, You have to consider the source. He sees nothing wrong with the above. I look at his You Tube Video's and its my entertainment for the evening


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*The Palestinians' Own Goals*


*by Khaled Abu Toameh
April 29, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*The Palestinians' Own Goals*


"We reject normalization and adopt the approach of resistance until the liberation of the entire Palestinian territory." — Statement rejecting job offers, issued by Progressive Democratic Student Pole, affiliated with the radical PLO group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).


"Resistance" is a term used by Palestinians to describe the "armed struggle" against Israel, which includes carrying out various forms of armed attacks against Israelis. When the students talk about the "liberation of the entire Palestinian territory," they are actually saying that they want to destroy Israel because they do not believe in its right to exist.


A video of the protest at Bir Zeit University posted on social media shows dozens of angry students surrounding the companies' representatives, and chanting: "Normalization [with Israel] is Treason."


This is just another example of how the movement for boycotting Israel is causing damage to Palestinians. Perhaps the real motive of the people promoting these boycotts of Israel is not to help the Palestinians at all, but, like terrorist groups, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, to destroy Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Incredible rain fed (Baal) potatoes*

*



*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Incredible rain fed (Baal) potatoes*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



Potatoes are grown in every country.  What is so special about this?  Or about vegetables growing because of rain?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Seed growers from across the globe celebrating biodiversity! #seedpower #peoplepower #palestineheirloomseedlibrary #viviensansour #generosity #threatenedspecies #plantlovers — with Karena Batstone and Vivien Sansour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

“Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Incredible rain fed (Baal) potatoes*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potatoes are grown in every country.  What is so special about this?  Or about vegetables growing because of rain?
Click to expand...


They're anti-Zionist potatoes that chant "Death To America" on full moon. 
Racially superior to any other potatoes according to the Jihadi ideology.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Incredible rain fed (Baal) potatoes*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potatoes are grown in every country.  What is so special about this?  Or about vegetables growing because of rain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're anti-Zionist potatoes that chant "Death To America" on full moon.
> Racially superior to any other potatoes according to the Jihadi ideology.
Click to expand...

 
Why is he posting pictures of food? Guess he lost the You Tube Video where Hasidic Jews claim Israel does not have the Right to Exist


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> “Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.








Says he cares about flowers,
goes to burn whole fields on the way swearing to "cut the hearts of the Jews"

Jihadi mentality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*International Law and Implications for Trump’s Jerusalem Decision- Noura Erakat*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *International Law and Implications for Trump’s Jerusalem Decision- Noura Erakat*
> 
> **




*



*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



I hope that stopping honor killings are part of the discussion there.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>












Jihad for women at the UN,
Sharia and genital mutilation for women in the US...

"some people doing something"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Birds not Bombs by Leanne Mohamad - Spoken Word*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


>



What retards!


----------



## José

rylah said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



*ANOTHER HISTORICAL DISTORTION AND SELECTIVE QUOTING BY RYLAH, THE COMPULSIVE ISRAELI LIAR!!!!*


----------



## José

These are the words written by al-Khalidi, including the big, red, bolded parts the zionist propaganda machine always "forget" to quote:

In 1899 he wrote a letter to the Zadok Kahn, the chief rabbi of France in which he stated:

"Who can deny the rights of the Jews to Palestine? My God, historically it is *also* your country!”

, however, he then suggested that, since Palestine was already inhabited, the Zionists should find another place for the implementation of their political goals.

" ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"




*Yousef al-Khalidi*​
Kahn showed the letter to Theodore Herzl, the founder of political Zionism. On 19 March 1899 Herzl replied to al-Khalidi in French assuring him that, if the Zionists were not wanted in Palestine,

"We will search and, believe me, we will find elsewhere what we need."

Yousef al-Khalidi - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

José said:


> These are the words written by al-Khalidi, including the big, red, bolded parts the zionist propaganda machine always "forget" to quote:
> 
> In 1899 he wrote a letter to the Zadok Kahn, the chief rabbi of France in which he stated:
> 
> "Who can deny the rights of the Jews to Palestine? My God, historically it is *also* your country!”
> 
> , however, he then suggested that, since Palestine was already inhabited, the Zionists should find another place for the implementation of their political goals.
> 
> " ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Yousef al-Khalidi*​
> Kahn showed the letter to Theodore Herzl, the founder of political Zionism. On 19 March 1899 Herzl replied to al-Khalidi in French assuring him that, if the Zionists were not wanted in Palestine,
> 
> "We will search and, believe me, we will find elsewhere what we need."
> 
> Yousef al-Khalidi - Wikipedia









In 1899 he wrote a letter to the Zadok Kahn, the chief rabbi of France, in which he said, "The idea itself is natural, fine and just. Who can challenge the rights of the Jews in Palestine? Good Lord, historically it is really your country.

What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an independent nation, honored and complacent, able to make its contribution to needy humanity in the field of morals, as in the past."

*From an Arab source: *All 4 Palestine | Model Role Details


----------



## José

> What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an *independent nation*



in another part of the world, not in Palestine, which is already inhabited, so please,

" ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"


----------



## rylah

José said:


> What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an *independent nation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in another part of the world, not in Palestine, which is already inhabited, so please,
> 
> " ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"
Click to expand...


I didn't find the original source for that quote
Do You have anything beyond the shouting big letters?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an *independent nation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in another part of the world, not in Palestine, which is already inhabited, so please,
> 
> " ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't find the original source for that quote
> Do You have anything beyond the shouting big letters?
Click to expand...


I guess his source is Wikipedia, which can be edited by any Joe Shmo.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an *independent nation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in another part of the world, not in Palestine, which is already inhabited, so please,
> 
> " ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't find the original source for that quote
> Do You have anything beyond the shouting big letters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess his source is Wikipedia, which can be edited by any Joe Shmo.
Click to expand...


Yes, and even the source referenced there confirms exactly what I quoted from the Arab source, 
and nothing that he wrote.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



That’s right. The obliteration of Israel. Keep wishing


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a wonderful spectacle that will be when a people as resourceful as the Jews will once again be an *independent nation*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in another part of the world, not in Palestine, which is already inhabited, so please,
> 
> " ... *in the name of God*," he wrote, "*let Palestine be left alone.*"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't find the original source for that quote
> Do You have anything beyond the shouting big letters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess his source is Wikipedia, which can be edited by any Joe Shmo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, and even the source referenced there confirms exactly what I quoted from the Arab source,
> and nothing that he wrote.
Click to expand...


I think I found at least one of the sources for this quote.  The exchange of letters between the Arab mayor and the founder of Zionism can be found in a book called "Jerusalem 1913: The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict" by Amy Dockser Marcus, published by Viking Press, copyright April 19, 2007.  The word ALSO is not, I repeat not, in the original quote.  So the mayor did indeed say, "Good Lord, historically it really is your country."  However, the mayor did say that Palestine should be left alone "because it is an integral part of the Ottoman Empire", which is not the case anymore, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Incredible rain fed (Baal) potatoes*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potatoes are grown in every country.  What is so special about this?  Or about vegetables growing because of rain?
Click to expand...

Developing rain fed crops in an area that does not have an abundance of water is the way to sustainable agriculture.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says he cares about flowers,
> goes to burn whole fields on the way swearing to "cut the hearts of the Jews"
> 
> Jihadi mentality.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Accountability for Gaza: Updates on Domestic and International Legal Efforts*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says he cares about flowers,
> goes to burn whole fields on the way swearing to "cut the hearts of the Jews"
> 
> Jihadi mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
Click to expand...


Says the sociopath who posted a video calling to "Murder the Jews and die together!",
while siding with the Jihadis who murdered an American president.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Panel 1*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Panel 2*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *2018 Palestine Center Annual Conference: Panel 1*
> 
> **



How does one become a traitor of his own people?


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*State of Palestine: Hamas celebrates 30th anniversary*
*with massive rally** in Gaza*

"We will show Americans the blade of our fierce sword, the Zionists and America will face their crush, 
they fear knowing that not even death separates us from glory"

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says he cares about flowers,
> goes to burn whole fields on the way swearing to "cut the hearts of the Jews"
> 
> Jihadi mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
Click to expand...



Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine



Another stupid remark


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



She forgot to mention her degree on Jihadi Lesbian Ballet
 from the university of Balastine.

By the way how are the gays doing living in Hamastan?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→   et al,  

I have to agree with our friend "rylah."   
*.*
*•  2019 ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code F60.2  •*
*Antisocial personality disorder*

Psychopathic personality is a disorder characterized by conflict with others, low frustration tolerance, inadequate conscience development, and rejection of authority and discipline.
Sociopathic personality is a disorder whose essential feature is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others through aggressive, antisocial behavior, without remorse or loyalty to anyone.



rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Old ladies needle” and poppies - beautiful childhood plants threatened with extinction .but the good news so many found in the amazing hills of Nablus.
> 
> 
> 
> Says he cares about flowers,
> goes to burn whole fields on the way swearing to "cut the hearts of the Jews"
> 
> Jihadi mentality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel needs to end its war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the sociopath who posted a video calling to "Murder the Jews and die together!",
> while siding with the Jihadis who murdered an American president.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT*)

Skipping the well documented threat from the Arab Palestinians issued prior to the 21st Century. during the 21st Century, the relationship between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, have been dominated the same decrees as expressed by:

*◈  Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders  • **World Islamic Front Statement *23 February 1998

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque ...   ...​
*◈   Palestinian scholars issue a fatwa against "normalization" •* 4 MAR 2019

The “normalization is one of the most dangerous initiatives, and a threat to the security of the nation and a corruption of its faith;”  is how the fatwa read.

The fatwa “considers reconciliation and normalization with the Zionist enemy null and void and a  crime…an explicit violation of the provisions of sharia. “​
I could be wrong, but I have never seen an Arab Palestinian counter Jihad stance taken on the same order as the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian advocacy for violence.  That is because they _(9 times out of 10)_ exhibit either the behaviors of a Sociopath or that of a Psychopath.  They are advocate violence as the first option as a response. 

Example:  Just look at the video on *Posting #9701*.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore
[QUOTE="P F Tinmore said:


>



Another “ peaceful “ grenade thrower


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Hamas demolishes homes, beats residents in Rafah*
*Citizens decry police brutality, government unfairness in their eviction*

The Hamas government in the Gaza Strip recently violently evicted residents and demolished homes it claims were illegally constructed on government land in the city of Rafah, Dubai-based news channel Al-Arabiya reported Monday.

According to the report, on March 21 a number of government bulldozers razed the makeshift homes, located in the southern Gaza Strip. Security officers on the scene beat the evicted residents and prevented media from covering the event. Mobile phones were confiscated from citizens who privately filmed the demolition and the photos deleted before being returned to their owners.

One resident who tried to resist his eviction told Al-Arabiya that the women’s police brutally beat his wife and mother before forcing them out of the home and destroying it.


----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the posting of photographs without a narrative to a specific action, purpose or cause. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.


*(COMMENT)*

In lieu of a narrative, I guess I'll choose to believe that the pictures of the Israeli Police Operation were taken in accordance with:

“Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law”

Under the authority of UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), wherein the Security Council decided that all States shall “deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens”.​
Safe havens, arising in certain environments like the territories under Article 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulation; they emerge based on the interaction between the Article 43 Obligations, the political will of the Israelis and capability of the Police and Security Organizations. The graph highlights the conditions that allow safe havens to form and operate → as well as → the changes required to eradicate them. Combinations of capacity and willingness intersect to produce three types of safe havens: government-enabled sanctuary, government-sponsored sanctuary, and contested sanctuary.




​It must be understood that when the Ramallah Government (PA/PLO) opt to glorify and pay monetary tributes to the perpetrators (and their families) of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for Criminal Acts directed against the Israeli Article 43 Forces, with the intention of → or calculated to → life-threatening injury to the  Israeli civilian population, which were prosecuted under Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(specifically Article 68 of the Forth Geneva Convention)_ the nature or context could look very much like that pictured here.  Does it intimidate the HoAP population that provided unlawful safe haven?  A:  Hell yes.  But it is a countermeasure against HoAP activity. 

I've notices an ever increasing number of Israeli anti-peace and security initiatives → attempting to draw sympathy for the consequences of HoAP criminal activities with the purpose of such act,  to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Jerusalem government and international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, the posting of photographs without a narrative to a specific action, purpose or cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In lieu of a narrative, I guess I'll choose to believe that the pictures of the Israeli Police Operation were taken in accordance with:
> 
> “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law”
> 
> Under the authority of UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), wherein the Security Council decided that all States shall “deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens”.​
> Safe havens, arising in certain environments like the territories under Article 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulation; they emerge based on the interaction between the Article 43 Obligations, the political will of the Israelis and capability of the Police and Security Organizations. The graph highlights the conditions that allow safe havens to form and operate → as well as → the changes required to eradicate them. Combinations of capacity and willingness intersect to produce three types of safe havens: government-enabled sanctuary, government-sponsored sanctuary, and contested sanctuary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​It must be understood that when the Ramallah Government (PA/PLO) opt to glorify and pay monetary tributes to the perpetrators (and their families) of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for Criminal Acts directed against the Israeli Article 43 Forces, with the intention of → or calculated to → life-threatening injury to the  Israeli civilian population, which were prosecuted under Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(specifically Article 68 of the Forth Geneva Convention)_ the nature or context could look very much like that pictured here.  Does it intimidate the HoAP population that provided unlawful safe haven?  A:  Hell yes.  But it is a countermeasure against HoAP activity.
> 
> I've notices an ever increasing number of Israeli anti-peace and security initiatives → attempting to draw sympathy for the consequences of HoAP criminal activities with the purpose of such act,  to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Jerusalem government and international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.


----------



## TrueTT

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, the posting of photographs without a narrative to a specific action, purpose or cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In lieu of a narrative, I guess I'll choose to believe that the pictures of the Israeli Police Operation were taken in accordance with:
> 
> “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law”
> 
> Under the authority of UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), wherein the Security Council decided that all States shall “deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens”.​
> Safe havens, arising in certain environments like the territories under Article 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulation; they emerge based on the interaction between the Article 43 Obligations, the political will of the Israelis and capability of the Police and Security Organizations. The graph highlights the conditions that allow safe havens to form and operate → as well as → the changes required to eradicate them. Combinations of capacity and willingness intersect to produce three types of safe havens: government-enabled sanctuary, government-sponsored sanctuary, and contested sanctuary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​It must be understood that when the Ramallah Government (PA/PLO) opt to glorify and pay monetary tributes to the perpetrators (and their families) of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for Criminal Acts directed against the Israeli Article 43 Forces, with the intention of → or calculated to → life-threatening injury to the  Israeli civilian population, which were prosecuted under Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(specifically Article 68 of the Forth Geneva Convention)_ the nature or context could look very much like that pictured here.  Does it intimidate the HoAP population that provided unlawful safe haven?  A:  Hell yes.  But it is a countermeasure against HoAP activity.
> 
> I've notices an ever increasing number of Israeli anti-peace and security initiatives → attempting to draw sympathy for the consequences of HoAP criminal activities with the purpose of such act,  to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Jerusalem government and international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...


Typical is as typical does.

You have no rebuttal, tin-can.


----------



## TrueTT

rylah said:


>



Would it even be wrong for Israelis to kill that girl?

I don’t think so. She’s a legit target in my mind.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, actually you are half right _(correct)_ as is seem.



P F Tinmore said:


> Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.



*(COMMENT)*

They ARE talking points_ (you're half right on that account)_, but not Israeli Talking Points _(half wrong on that account)_.  They come from the:
*• United Nations Security Council Counter-Terrorism Committee •*

*



*
​
Most of the convincing propaganda _(like this comment of yours)_ is sprinkled with half truths, so as to give credibility to the disinformation and misinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  TrueTT, et al,

We have to be very careful that we do NOT become the very thing that we combat.  We cannot stoop to the same reprehensible level as the Hostile Arab Palestinians that claim any Israeli is an invader and therefore a legitimate target.



TrueTT said:


> Would it even be wrong for Israelis to kill that girl?
> 
> I don’t think so. She’s a legit target in my mind.


*(COMMENT)*

This is an example of generational anti-Semitism.  While such a young one could be considered a deadly threat in the right circumstances, our moral and ethics demand that every attempt is made to recover this young one peacefully, with her blood being spilled; even at the cost of our own.

The Western Values of the pro-Israeli IS NOT so callous as to not attempt to preserve this life.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

TrueTT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, the posting of photographs without a narrative to a specific action, purpose or cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In lieu of a narrative, I guess I'll choose to believe that the pictures of the Israeli Police Operation were taken in accordance with:
> 
> “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law”
> 
> Under the authority of UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), wherein the Security Council decided that all States shall “deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens”.​
> Safe havens, arising in certain environments like the territories under Article 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulation; they emerge based on the interaction between the Article 43 Obligations, the political will of the Israelis and capability of the Police and Security Organizations. The graph highlights the conditions that allow safe havens to form and operate → as well as → the changes required to eradicate them. Combinations of capacity and willingness intersect to produce three types of safe havens: government-enabled sanctuary, government-sponsored sanctuary, and contested sanctuary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​It must be understood that when the Ramallah Government (PA/PLO) opt to glorify and pay monetary tributes to the perpetrators (and their families) of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for Criminal Acts directed against the Israeli Article 43 Forces, with the intention of → or calculated to → life-threatening injury to the  Israeli civilian population, which were prosecuted under Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(specifically Article 68 of the Forth Geneva Convention)_ the nature or context could look very much like that pictured here.  Does it intimidate the HoAP population that provided unlawful safe haven?  A:  Hell yes.  But it is a countermeasure against HoAP activity.
> 
> I've notices an ever increasing number of Israeli anti-peace and security initiatives → attempting to draw sympathy for the consequences of HoAP criminal activities with the purpose of such act,  to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Jerusalem government and international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical is as typical does.
> 
> You have no rebuttal, tin-can.
Click to expand...


He never does. Ask why the PLO formally declared the Western Wall is off limits to Jews if they got control of E. Jerusalem there is no response. 
 Yet he posts a map which eliminated Israel titled “ Equal Justice For All?”  All he has are bullshit Pro Palestinian talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore

TrueTT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, the posting of photographs without a narrative to a specific action, purpose or cause.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces displaced Palestinian family after demolishing their home in Yatta city near Hebron.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In lieu of a narrative, I guess I'll choose to believe that the pictures of the Israeli Police Operation were taken in accordance with:
> 
> “Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts, or Provide Safe Havens, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in Conformity with International Law”
> 
> Under the authority of UN Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001), wherein the Security Council decided that all States shall “deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens”.​
> Safe havens, arising in certain environments like the territories under Article 42 and 43 of the Hague Regulation; they emerge based on the interaction between the Article 43 Obligations, the political will of the Israelis and capability of the Police and Security Organizations. The graph highlights the conditions that allow safe havens to form and operate → as well as → the changes required to eradicate them. Combinations of capacity and willingness intersect to produce three types of safe havens: government-enabled sanctuary, government-sponsored sanctuary, and contested sanctuary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​It must be understood that when the Ramallah Government (PA/PLO) opt to glorify and pay monetary tributes to the perpetrators (and their families) of Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) for Criminal Acts directed against the Israeli Article 43 Forces, with the intention of → or calculated to → life-threatening injury to the  Israeli civilian population, which were prosecuted under Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(specifically Article 68 of the Forth Geneva Convention)_ the nature or context could look very much like that pictured here.  Does it intimidate the HoAP population that provided unlawful safe haven?  A:  Hell yes.  But it is a countermeasure against HoAP activity.
> 
> I've notices an ever increasing number of Israeli anti-peace and security initiatives → attempting to draw sympathy for the consequences of HoAP criminal activities with the purpose of such act,  to intimidate the Israeli population and to compel the Jerusalem government and international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical is as typical does.
> 
> You have no rebuttal, tin-can.
Click to expand...

Rebuttal hell, I need a shovel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, actually you are half right _(correct)_ as is seem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your usual bullshit Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> They ARE talking points_ (you're half right on that account)_, but not Israeli Talking Points _(half wrong on that account)_.  They come from the:
> *• United Nations Security Council Counter-Terrorism Committee •*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> ​
> Most of the convincing propaganda _(like this comment of yours)_ is sprinkled with half truths, so as to give credibility to the disinformation and misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I have noticed that you say this more and more these days.  But you never really support your claim or, in this case, the innuendo.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.


*(COMMENT)*

It is easy to sit back and challenge my position because you do it without any support whatsoever.

I call your attention to:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf •
I particularly call your attention to the first few Articles beginning on page 6.

I'm sure you believe that every country in the world is going to allow the year long shenanigans that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the Gaza Strip present towards Israel along the border.  I think you are quite sure that the States of Egypt and Jordan would allow the HoAP on the presentation of such activist demonstrations along their common borders.  And I'm quite sure that every country in the UN would allow a Hostile Element to fire rockets and mortars on sovereign targets.  You saw what happen to the PLO in Jordan.  And you see just how welcome the HoAP are in Egypt.  There are 21 members of the Arab League.  How many are actually funding the Arab Palestinians?  (RHETORICAL)

The Palestinian Authority (PA) is on the verge of collapse. Israeli security officials believe that barring drastic rescue measures, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will step down regardless of whether he quits of his own free will or is forced out by mass protests over the failure of funding-strapped institutions to carry out their tasks. Israel’s security agencies are convinced the collapse is only a matter of time as a result of Israel’s own doing and that of its friend, the United States.

Read more: Israel tries rescuing PA from collapse, after instigating crisis to begin with

The Associated Press, UN Tuesday, 30 April 2019

The UN political chief warned Monday that the worsening Palestinian financial crisis poses a growing risk “of a financial collapse of the Palestinian Authority.”​
The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?
​Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have noticed that you say this more and more these days.  But you never really support your claim or, in this case, the innuendo.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is easy to sit back and challenge my position because you do it without any support whatsoever.
> 
> I call your attention to:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf •
> I particularly call your attention to the first few Articles beginning on page 6.
> 
> I'm sure you believe that every country in the world is going to allow the year long shenanigans that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the Gaza Strip present towards Israel along the border.  I think you are quite sure that the States of Egypt and Jordan would allow the HoAP on the presentation of such activist demonstrations along their common borders.  And I'm quite sure that every country in the UN would allow a Hostile Element to fire rockets and mortars on sovereign targets.  You saw what happen to the PLO in Jordan.  And you see just how welcome the HoAP are in Egypt.  There are 21 members of the Arab League.  How many are actually funding the Arab Palestinians?  (RHETORICAL)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is on the verge of collapse. Israeli security officials believe that barring drastic rescue measures, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will step down regardless of whether he quits of his own free will or is forced out by mass protests over the failure of funding-strapped institutions to carry out their tasks. Israel’s security agencies are convinced the collapse is only a matter of time as a result of Israel’s own doing and that of its friend, the United States.
> 
> Read more: Israel tries rescuing PA from collapse, after instigating crisis to begin with
> 
> The Associated Press, UN Tuesday, 30 April 2019
> 
> The UN political chief warned Monday that the worsening Palestinian financial crisis poses a growing risk “of a financial collapse of the Palestinian Authority.”​
> The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...


He’s not going to get what he wants so it’s destined to fail


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have noticed that you say this more and more these days.  But you never really support your claim or, in this case, the innuendo.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is easy to sit back and challenge my position because you do it without any support whatsoever.
> 
> I call your attention to:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf •
> I particularly call your attention to the first few Articles beginning on page 6.
> 
> I'm sure you believe that every country in the world is going to allow the year long shenanigans that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the Gaza Strip present towards Israel along the border.  I think you are quite sure that the States of Egypt and Jordan would allow the HoAP on the presentation of such activist demonstrations along their common borders.  And I'm quite sure that every country in the UN would allow a Hostile Element to fire rockets and mortars on sovereign targets.  You saw what happen to the PLO in Jordan.  And you see just how welcome the HoAP are in Egypt.  There are 21 members of the Arab League.  How many are actually funding the Arab Palestinians?  (RHETORICAL)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is on the verge of collapse. Israeli security officials believe that barring drastic rescue measures, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will step down regardless of whether he quits of his own free will or is forced out by mass protests over the failure of funding-strapped institutions to carry out their tasks. Israel’s security agencies are convinced the collapse is only a matter of time as a result of Israel’s own doing and that of its friend, the United States.
> 
> Read more: Israel tries rescuing PA from collapse, after instigating crisis to begin with
> 
> The Associated Press, UN Tuesday, 30 April 2019
> 
> The UN political chief warned Monday that the worsening Palestinian financial crisis poses a growing risk “of a financial collapse of the Palestinian Authority.”​
> The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?


A US installed dictator who works for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I have noticed that you say this more and more these days.  But you never really support your claim or, in this case, the innuendo.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is easy to sit back and challenge my position because you do it without any support whatsoever.
> 
> I call your attention to:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938).pdf •
> I particularly call your attention to the first few Articles beginning on page 6.
> 
> I'm sure you believe that every country in the world is going to allow the year long shenanigans that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the Gaza Strip present towards Israel along the border.  I think you are quite sure that the States of Egypt and Jordan would allow the HoAP on the presentation of such activist demonstrations along their common borders.  And I'm quite sure that every country in the UN would allow a Hostile Element to fire rockets and mortars on sovereign targets.  You saw what happen to the PLO in Jordan.  And you see just how welcome the HoAP are in Egypt.  There are 21 members of the Arab League.  How many are actually funding the Arab Palestinians?  (RHETORICAL)
> 
> The Palestinian Authority (PA) is on the verge of collapse. Israeli security officials believe that barring drastic rescue measures, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas will step down regardless of whether he quits of his own free will or is forced out by mass protests over the failure of funding-strapped institutions to carry out their tasks. Israel’s security agencies are convinced the collapse is only a matter of time as a result of Israel’s own doing and that of its friend, the United States.
> 
> Read more: Israel tries rescuing PA from collapse, after instigating crisis to begin with
> 
> The Associated Press, UN Tuesday, 30 April 2019
> 
> The UN political chief warned Monday that the worsening Palestinian financial crisis poses a growing risk “of a financial collapse of the Palestinian Authority.”​
> The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question I have is, what do we actually lose if the Abbas Government falls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A US installed dictator who works for Israel.
Click to expand...


It's very strange that someone who is working for Israel is still refusing to stop paying terrorists in his "pay to slay" program, even at the cost of losing Israeli and U.S. funding.  It's also strange how someone working for Israel should be so outraged at the U.S, moving its embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem.  Wouldn't an Israeli stooge be happy about a move like that?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


 More Al Jazeera talking points.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Christopher Hitchens on Israel and Palestine*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a half-dozen (or so) stitched together interviews that are as out of date as the ideas they express.  I don't want to speak ill of the dead _(died before Palestine gained non-member Observer State)_, but I believe Christopher Hitchens has been gone for nearly a decade since the last of those interviews.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Christopher Hitchens on Israel and Palestine*


*(COMMENT)*

You want to express ideas through the mouth of others.  These others generally have either an economic, commercial or political stake in the presentation of such ideas.  Hitchens is a columnist and author → and so he is interested in getting his name out there for recognition.  But the position he takes is trying to apply modern political theory _(and it's just that - theory)_ on a set of conditions that have evolved over a century. 

And let's get a few things straight.  

◈  The pro-Arab Palestinians intentionally jumble and make an ambiguous statement about "taking land" in such a way as to make the allegation incoherent _(and thus unanswerable)_.  

◈  There are very few Arab Palestinians still around that actually owned land, in what is now Israel.  They would have a legitimate claim to be evaluated and adjudicated.  But proceeding have been obstructed and negotiations blocked by the Arab Palestinians themselves..  

◈  Israel did not occupy any Arab Palestinian State Territory.  It did, however, occupy Jordanian Territory.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinians Inconvenient Truths.*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
May 4, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*Palestinian Leaders and Inconvenient Truths*




Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas understood that he had made a grave error in calling out his Arab brothers for their tightfistedness. This was a massive mistake because his Arab brothers do not tolerate any form of criticism. For them, Abbas should only be criticizing Israel and the US.


This is the old Palestinian blame game: always make Israel or the U.S. appear responsible for the suffering you inflict on your own people.


Like most Palestinians, Abbas is well aware that the Arab states are no longer willing to serve as a cash machine for ingrates. Under the current circumstances, the Palestinians are more likely to succeed in cajoling money from duped Western donors than from their loving brothers. From the Palestinian leaders' point of view, however, this is an inconvenient truth best hidden from their people.


----------



## Mindful

^The Arab states continue to lie to the Palestinians. At the last meeting of Arab foreign ministers in the Egyptian capital of Cairo, the Arabs "affirmed their commitment to support the budget of the state of Palestine by activating the resolution of the Arab summit in Tunisia to provide a $100 million safety net [to the Palestinians] each month."

The Arab foreign ministers announced their decision after listening to a speech by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who complained that his government was facing a financial crisis because of Israeli and US measures.

Abbas was referring to Israel's decision to deduct payments made by the Palestinian Authority (PA) government to families of security prisoners and "martyrs" from tax revenues that Israel collects each month on behalf of the Palestinians.

Earlier this year, the Israeli government announced it is deducting hundreds of millions of shekels from the tax funds it collects on behalf of the Palestinians because of the PA's policy of paying salaries to terrorists and their families. The decision was in accordance with an Israeli law passed in July 2018. Under the law, the payments made by the PA government would automatically be frozen by the Israeli government, in accordance with the Paris Protocol, an agreementsigned between Israel and the PLO in 1994 that allows Israel to collect and transfer to the PA government the import taxes on goods that were intended for the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a half-dozen (or so) stitched together interviews that are as out of date as the ideas they express.  I don't want to speak ill of the dead _(died before Palestine gained non-member Observer State)_, but I believe Christopher Hitchens has been gone for nearly a decade since the last of those interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Christopher Hitchens on Israel and Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You want to express ideas through the mouth of others.  These others generally have either an economic, commercial or political stake in the presentation of such ideas.  Hitchens is a columnist and author → and so he is interested in getting his name out there for recognition.  But the position he takes is trying to apply modern political theory _(and it's just that - theory)_ on a set of conditions that have evolved over a century.
> 
> And let's get a few things straight.
> 
> ◈  The pro-Arab Palestinians intentionally jumble and make an ambiguous statement about "taking land" in such a way as to make the allegation incoherent _(and thus unanswerable)_.
> 
> ◈  There are very few Arab Palestinians still around that actually owned land, in what is now Israel.  They would have a legitimate claim to be evaluated and adjudicated.  But proceeding have been obstructed and negotiations blocked by the Arab Palestinians themselves..
> 
> ◈  Israel did not occupy any Arab Palestinian State Territory.  It did, however, occupy Jordanian Territory.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Jordan merely occupied Palestinian land.

Palestinian land is recorded in Turkey, Britain, the UN, and the Palestinian Land Society.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a half-dozen (or so) stitched together interviews that are as out of date as the ideas they express.  I don't want to speak ill of the dead _(died before Palestine gained non-member Observer State)_, but I believe Christopher Hitchens has been gone for nearly a decade since the last of those interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Christopher Hitchens on Israel and Palestine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You want to express ideas through the mouth of others.  These others generally have either an economic, commercial or political stake in the presentation of such ideas.  Hitchens is a columnist and author → and so he is interested in getting his name out there for recognition.  But the position he takes is trying to apply modern political theory _(and it's just that - theory)_ on a set of conditions that have evolved over a century.
> 
> And let's get a few things straight.
> 
> ◈  The pro-Arab Palestinians intentionally jumble and make an ambiguous statement about "taking land" in such a way as to make the allegation incoherent _(and thus unanswerable)_.
> 
> ◈  There are very few Arab Palestinians still around that actually owned land, in what is now Israel.  They would have a legitimate claim to be evaluated and adjudicated.  But proceeding have been obstructed and negotiations blocked by the Arab Palestinians themselves..
> 
> ◈  Israel did not occupy any Arab Palestinian State Territory.  It did, however, occupy Jordanian Territory.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jordan merely occupied Palestinian land.
> 
> Palestinian land is recorded in Turkey, Britain, the UN, and the Palestinian Land Society.
Click to expand...


Did you get that from the Land Registry in Jerusalem?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian families evicted and made homeless so new Israeli settlers can move in*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian families evicted and made homeless so new Israeli settlers can move in*
> 
> **





There's no eviction they just need a cover.

They're paid millions of $, way over the price of the property,
now probably enjoy the social welfare of some naive western country.

These people are PAYING about 2000$ each 2nd-4th hand agents not to get murdered by their govt for doing the deal. Literally millionaires today.


----------



## rylah

The PA is pressuring the Joudeh family in the Aqbat Darwish neighborhood in the Old City of Jerusalem after their home was sold to Jews for $17 million by businessman Khaled al-Atari.

*PA Ostracizes Arabs Who Sell Houses to Jews*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> The PA is pressuring the Joudeh family in the Aqbat Darwish neighborhood in the Old City of Jerusalem after their home was sold to Jews for $17 million by businessman Khaled al-Atari.
> 
> *PA Ostracizes Arabs Who Sell Houses to Jews*



I think that the punishment for Palestinians who do this is death


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



It's so comforting hearing how in spite of all the guy loves the "big satan".
Though I still can't figure out why someone allegedly discriminated would invest all their efforts in promoting the very exact populism and racist vocabulary that differentiates Americans by ethnicity and skin color?

From where comes this need to constantly frame reality in terms of race/ethnicity in the American politics?


----------



## Mindful

*Fauxtography of the Day..*
 -
..has to be this photo, tweeted out by the palestinian Safa news agency:





A spotless teddy bear, that just happens to remain intact among piles of rubble.

Once again, the palestinian propaganda machine and their willing enablers are toying with us.


Israellycool.com


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> *Fauxtography of the Day..*
> -
> ..has to be this photo, tweeted out by the palestinian Safa news agency:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A spotless teddy bear, that just happens to remain intact among piles of rubble.
> 
> Once again, the palestinian propaganda machine and their willing enablers are toying with us.
> 
> 
> Israellycool.com



The Bear looks happy to me


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

Actually, everything in this picture looks relatively clean; even the rubble.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Fauxtography of the Day..*
> ..has to be this photo, tweeted out by the Palestinian Safa news agency:
> 
> 
> 
> ​A spotless teddy bear, that just happens to remain intact among piles of rubble.
> Once again, the Palestinian propaganda machine and their willing enablers are toying with us.
> Israellycool.com
> 
> 
> 
> The Bear looks happy to me
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The layman simply can't distinguish between fax photo's and real photo's in many cases.  Especially on the internet where reality itself can appear altered.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Providence Magazine

YAWN..... Islam has been suppressing BOTH Christianity and the Jewish Faith for thousands of years yet this is the best you can come up with?  I realize this is not the appropriate Board and even if it was there would be complete silence from you but its too bad you didn't mourn the CHRISTIAN VICTIMS of Sri Lanka and others who have been killed, beheaded, etc.  Keep posting!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian rights forum at UMass sparks debate and interest*

**
*Nice crowd.*


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*It’s tax season, but where does all your money actually go @RaniaKhalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashid Khalidi: The Israeli Security Establishment is Terrified of a Nonviolent Palestinian Movement*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



What about the 700 rockets that were just fired into Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Brutal but typical of Israelis: Illegal armed settlers, protected by Israeli soldiers, attack Palestinian farmers in their own farms and prevent them from earning their livelihoods.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## theHawk

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hey PF Fagmore, when are you going to man up and join Hamas?  You love Palestinians so much, go join the fight.  Put up or shut up.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

theHawk said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey PF Fagmore, when are you going to man up and join Hamas?  You love Palestinians so much, go join the fight.  Put up or shut up.
Click to expand...


Yes, I've been telling him that for years.  He has never even been to his beloved Palestine.  Alison Weir went there all by herself,  though it was dangerous for her as an American woman.
(I'm responding to Hawk's post that Tinmore should fight together with Hamas in Gaza.)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>







Antique Keys | eBay


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Jordan seems to have lots of space for the frauds.
though we both know they prefer to live in Europe and enjoy simultaneously 2 welfare systems.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Their rabbi on the left, Rabbi Zonenfeld ZTZ"L is the founder of Neturei Karta to which the 2 guys in You picture belong,  together with Rabbi Kook ZTZVK"L on the right, leader of religious Zionism, founder of Rabbinate and 1st chief Rabbi of modern Israel.

Didn't the Palestinian flag exist yet?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Huston we've got a problem...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Rinse, wash and repeat?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huston we've got a problem...
Click to expand...

According to international law, they are Israeli citizens.

Look it up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huston we've got a problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to international law, they are Israeli citizens.
> 
> Look it up.
Click to expand...







Citizens of a country existence of which You deny?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huston we've got a problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to international law, they are Israeli citizens.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of a country existence of which You deny?
Click to expand...

That depends on whether you follow international law or Israeli BS talking points.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huston we've got a problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to international law, they are Israeli citizens.
> 
> Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens of a country existence of which You deny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on whether you follow international law or Israeli BS talking points.
Click to expand...


That's the thing,
I follow Your self contradictory demented posts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, you use this accusation of "Israeli BS Talking Points" nonsense more and more without reference to the archive of the Talking Points or which Talking Points directly apply.



P F Tinmore said:


> That depends on whether you follow international law or Israeli BS talking points.


*(COMMENT)*

√  Which particular International Law are you making reference too??? 

◈  Teach me what laws are specifically applicable.

◈  Teach me how to define the event or incident are you specifically refereing too.​√  What are the elements to the specific offense being alleged?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, you use this accusation of "Israeli BS Talking Points" nonsense more and more without reference to the archive of the Talking Points or which Talking Points directly apply.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That depends on whether you follow international law or Israeli BS talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> √  Which particular International Law are you making reference too???
> 
> ◈  Teach me what laws are specifically applicable.
> 
> ◈  Teach me how to define the event or incident are you specifically refereing too.​√  What are the elements to the specific offense being alleged?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are two different stories here.

The Israeli version is that Israel is a state.

The Palestinian version is that Israel occupies Palestine.

Which is true?

Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Tlaib recruiting Members for ‘Congressional Delegation’ to West Bank*

Planning her own delegation, Rashida Tlaib continues to inspire and push the boundaries in Congress!

*



*

Rep. Tlaib, the first female Palestinian-American member of Congress, floated the idea for this trip in an interview with the Intercept in December. Rep. Tlaib told JI on Tuesday that her goal in traveling to the West Bank is to help “people see the human impact on Palestinians, and what an opportunity of value to have a sitting congressmember that has a living grandmother in the Occupied Territories.”

*Rep. Tlaib recruiting Members for ‘Congressional Delegation’ to West Bank - Jewish Insider*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hayya: No calm without lifting blockade on Gaza

Member of Hamas’s political bureau Khalil al-Hayya has affirmed that the Palestinian resistance has engaged in a daily assessment of Israel’s commitment to honoring the renewed understandings over Gaza, warning that the area will not enjoy calm as long as the occupation and blockade continue to exist.

  Read more at  
Hayya: No calm without lifting blockade on Gaza
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There are two different stories here.
> 
> The Israeli version is that Israel is a state.
> 
> The Palestinian version is that Israel occupies Palestine.
> 
> Which is true?
> 
> Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.



Document the *legal* standing of Jordan.  Then show how Israel's legal standing differs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two different stories here.
> 
> The Israeli version is that Israel is a state.
> 
> The Palestinian version is that Israel occupies Palestine.
> 
> Which is true?
> 
> Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Document the *legal* standing of Jordan.  Then show how Israel's legal standing differs.
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two different stories here.
> 
> The Israeli version is that Israel is a state.
> 
> The Palestinian version is that Israel occupies Palestine.
> 
> Which is true?
> 
> Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Document the *legal* standing of Jordan.  Then show how Israel's legal standing differs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...







Rolled a 5, huh?

You LOVE to make ridiculous statements about *legal *standings, but can't back it up.

You don't like my objective test of Jordan?  Fine.  Make up your own test.  Tell us how one knows whether or not a State is *legal*.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two different stories here.
> 
> The Israeli version is that Israel is a state.
> 
> The Palestinian version is that Israel occupies Palestine.
> 
> Which is true?
> 
> Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Document the *legal* standing of Jordan.  Then show how Israel's legal standing differs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rolled a 5, huh?
> 
> You LOVE to make ridiculous statements about *legal *standings, but can't back it up.
> 
> You don't like my objective test of Jordan?  Fine.  Make up your own test.  Tell us how one knows whether or not a State is *legal*.
Click to expand...

Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.


----------



## RoccoR

?RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is so strange...

I thought we agreed that → "The political existence of the state *is independent of recognition* by the other states."



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has tons of *political* recognition but documents on its *legal* standing are illusive.


*(COMMENT)*

What do you want to see in terms of "documents on its *legal* standing?"   What does that even mean?

I use the Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law.  There is no entry for the term "Legal Standing" or 'Legal" or "Standing."  So, I am at somewhat of a loss.

*(QUESTIONS)*

What do the Arab Palestinians use for this self-created requirement?

What are you trying to point out?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.



Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim. 

Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case. 

But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



“ From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”  The above names bother you?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
Click to expand...

One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.

Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848

This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
Click to expand...



Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.  

For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.
> 
> For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?
Click to expand...

The new states did have financial obligations laid out in the treaty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.
> 
> For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The new states did have financial obligations laid out in the treaty.
Click to expand...


Not my point.  Is PURCHASE territory is REQUIREMENT for sovereignty over territory?  Yes or no?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can't prove a negative but there is an absence  of documentation showing where Israel legally acquired the land it sits on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.
> 
> For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The new states did have financial obligations laid out in the treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not my point.  Is PURCHASE territory is REQUIREMENT for sovereignty over territory?  Yes or no?
Click to expand...

Not always. The land was ceded to Palestine. The people who lived there became the owners. They were the sovereigns of the territory. They did not need to buy it because it was already theirs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your positive claim is that there is some sort of documentation required.  Or some other proof of legal standing.  Or acquisition of land.  Prove that positive claim.
> 
> Exactly why I asked you to compare it to other states.  What kind of legal documentation is required?  If you can demonstrate that OTHER states have this documentation but Israel does not have this documentation, you would have a case.
> 
> But you can't.  Because you know very well that there is no such thing and you are just blowing hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.
> 
> For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The new states did have financial obligations laid out in the treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not my point.  Is PURCHASE territory is REQUIREMENT for sovereignty over territory?  Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not always. The land was ceded to Palestine. The people who lived there became the owners. They were the sovereigns of the territory. They did not need to buy it because it was already theirs.
Click to expand...


Right. So purchase is not a requirement for sovereignty. We agree. 

We also agree that territory has to be defined. And there is no argument from me that the territory in question, whether you want to call it Palestine, Israel or Mars was clearly defined. 

So. What other requirements are there for State sovereignty. Specifically which positive requirements must be in place which Israel does not have?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One example would be the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848 between the US and Mexico. The borders of the territory acquired by the US were carefully defined. The price of the territory and the payment schedule were defined in the treaty.
> 
> Avalon Project - Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo; February 2, 1848
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outline for me what you think the relevant factors are.  You seem to suggest two above:  definition and borders of territory being clearly defined AND exchange of financial consideration.
> 
> For example, would you suggest that Palestine can't be a State until it purchases territory from the previous sovereign?  In this case, the Ottoman Empire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The new states did have financial obligations laid out in the treaty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not my point.  Is PURCHASE territory is REQUIREMENT for sovereignty over territory?  Yes or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not always. The land was ceded to Palestine. The people who lived there became the owners. They were the sovereigns of the territory. They did not need to buy it because it was already theirs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right. So purchase is not a requirement for sovereignty. We agree.
> 
> We also agree that territory has to be defined. And there is no argument from me that the territory in question, whether you want to call it Palestine, Israel or Mars was clearly defined.
> 
> So. What other requirements are there for State sovereignty. Specifically which positive requirements must be in place which Israel does not have?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> So purchase is not a requirement for sovereignty.


Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.


----------



## RoccoR

.RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is a State like every other.



P F Tinmore said:


> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.


[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel came into existence long before the State of Palestine.  In fact, while Israel has a defined territory, the Arab Palestinians do not have any sovereign territory. 

Except where limited by treaty, the State of Israel is "free" to legislate and "enforce that legislation" within its territory, Israel, under its own sovereign power, is free to apply its laws to the entire population within its territory.  Except for Area "A" and the Gaza Strip, under which the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control, the Arab Palestinians cannot unilaterally "free" to legislate and "enforce that legislation" under its own authority.

It is true that _(like the believers of a "flat Earth")_ it is difficult to change the minds and perspectives of the Arab Palestinians that believe the "Israel occupies Palestine;" it does not change the reality of what has historically happened.



			
				Handbook of International Law • Oxford University • Cambridge said:
			
		

> *Boundary treaties*
> A treaty that establishes or confirms a boundary creates a regime that all other states must
> recognise.  A party to the treaty cannot invoke a fundamental change of circumstances as a ground
> for terminating it, except perhaps where the conditions for the legitimate operation of the principle
> of self-determination exist.​



◈  Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •
Article II • The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II.​
◈  Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
Article 3 - International Boundary
The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)​
Both the Treaty with Egypt and the Treaty with Jordan were created after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 which established the "Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  The territory of the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip were not liberated by the PLO.  The treaties brought to a conclusion the Conflict of the 1948 War.  Each treaty terminated the Armistice Agreements under Article XII of each agreement _("shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved")_. 

With regard to the All Palestine Government (APG), President Nasser closed its offices in 1959.  The PLO did not declare independence until 1988.

*(TERRITORY)*

The treaties with Egypt and Jordan were executed without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.

All Parties understood the applicability of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace (See A/RES/2625 XXV). 

◈  Each signatory recognizes the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of each party.

◈  Each signatory recognizes and respects the right to live in peace within their secure and recognized boundaries.

◈  Each signatory has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the other,​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore is trying to argue that there is a set of objective critieria for a State coming into being and obtaining sovereignty. Of course he is unable to articulate that criteria. But is pretty sure Israel does not meet it. Even though he can't formulate an argument for it. 

(I agree, btw. There IS a set of objective criteria for a state to come into being. I've articulated it several times. It is encapsulated in the Montevideo Convention. The requirements are:  population, defined territory, government and capacity to enter into agreements with other States (recognition).

Israel has them all. Palestine does not.)

Tinmore thinks Israel should have a different definition. Double standards.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> .RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Israel is a State like every other.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is how territory is legally acquired. This is the documentation that I have been looking for.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The State of Israel came into existence long before the State of Palestine.  In fact, while Israel has a defined territory, the Arab Palestinians do not have any sovereign territory.

Except where limited by treaty, the State of Israel is "free" to legislate and "enforce that legislation" within its territory, Israel, under its own sovereign power, is free to apply its laws to the entire population within its territory.  Except for Area "A" and the Gaza Strip, under which the Arab Palestinians have full civil and security control, the Arab Palestinians cannot unilaterally "free" to legislate and "enforce that legislation" under its own authority.

It is true that _(like the believers of a "flat Earth")_ it is difficult to change the minds and perspectives of the Arab Palestinians that believe the "Israel occupies Palestine;" it does not change the reality of what has historically happened.



			
				Handbook of International Law • Oxford University • Cambridge said:
			
		

> *Boundary treaties*
> A treaty that establishes or confirms a boundary creates a regime that all other states must
> recognise.  A party to the treaty cannot invoke a fundamental change of circumstances as a ground
> for terminating it, except perhaps where the conditions for the legitimate operation of the principle
> of self-determination exist.​



◈  Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979) •
Article II • The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II.​◈  Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •
Article 3 - International Boundary
The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a)​
Both the Treaty with Egypt and the Treaty with Jordan were created after the Seventh Arab League Summit Conference Resolution on Palestine Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974 which established the "Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."  The territory of the West Bank _(including Jerusalem)_ and the Gaza Strip were not liberated by the PLO.  The treaties brought to a conclusion the Conflict of the 1948 War.  Each treaty terminated the Armistice Agreements under Article XII of each agreement _("shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved")_.

With regard to the All Palestine Government (APG), President Nasser closed its offices in 1959.  The PLO did not declare independence until 1988.

*(TERRITORY)*

The treaties with Egypt and Jordan were executed without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.

All Parties understood the applicability of the Charter of the United Nations and the principles of international law governing relations among states in times of peace (See A/RES/2625 XXV).

◈  Each signatory recognizes the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of each party.

◈  Each signatory recognizes and respects the right to live in peace within their secure and recognized boundaries.

◈  Each signatory has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the other,​
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
You are still dancing around my posts.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Not at all no tap dancing involved at all.  Although you might be showing signs of the Ostrich Effect.



			
				Handbook for International Law • Occupation and Prescription said:
			
		

> _Page #38: Terra nullius_ can be acquired by any state (not by a private person or company, unless acting for the state) that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.
> 
> Page #40:  Because such treaties transfer sovereignty, at least de facto, they should be distinguished from leases granted to foreign states under the domestic law of the grantor state, such as for military bases, although today the land may be made merely ‘available.'  Such leases involve no transfer of sovereignty.





P F Tinmore said:


> You are still dancing around my posts.


*(COMMENT)*

Your posting is actually questioning the extent to which the two treaties cited are all that is necessary.

●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Jordan and Israel encapsulated the West Bank (including Jerusalem).  SO, the Timore Argument is that the Hashemite Kingdom did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.

●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Egypt and Israel encapsulated the Gaza Strip.  SO, the Timore Argument is that the when Egypt disolved the All Palestine Government and then entered into a treaty with Israel, Egypt did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.​
Let's just think about that for a moment.  Which state parties had control over what territory and when?  Who's in charge?

Certainly, by no stretch of the imagination are the Arab Palestinians recorded a being in charge or anything for the previous 800 years anyway... So if we subtract the Arab Palestinians out of the equation of sovereign control, then who had what control?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> The treaties with Egypt and Jordan were executed without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.


The treaties with Egypt and Jordan were were brokered by the US not the UN. As we all know, the US has never been an honest broker. Flouting international law has never been a problem for them.

The problem I see is that Israel is claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine. I have brought this up before and you always start dancing. You always blow a page of smoke without addressing this issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Not at all no tap dancing involved at all.  Although you might be showing signs of the Ostrich Effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Handbook for International Law • Occupation and Prescription said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Page #38: Terra nullius_ can be acquired by any state (not by a private person or company, unless acting for the state) that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.
> 
> Page #40:  Because such treaties transfer sovereignty, at least de facto, they should be distinguished from leases granted to foreign states under the domestic law of the grantor state, such as for military bases, although today the land may be made merely ‘available.'  Such leases involve no transfer of sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dancing around my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your posting is actually questioning the extent to which the two treaties cited are all that is necessary.
> 
> ●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Jordan and Israel encapsulated the West Bank (including Jerusalem).  SO, the Timore Argument is that the Hashemite Kingdom did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.
> 
> ●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Egypt and Israel encapsulated the Gaza Strip.  SO, the Timore Argument is that the when Egypt disolved the All Palestine Government and then entered into a treaty with Israel, Egypt did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.​
> Let's just think about that for a moment.  Which state parties had control over what territory and when?  Who's in charge?
> 
> Certainly, by no stretch of the imagination are the Arab Palestinians recorded a being in charge or anything for the previous 800 years anyway... So if we subtract the Arab Palestinians out of the equation of sovereign control, then who had what control?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. *Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.*​
When does the peaceful part kick in?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How to be a Palestinian supermom*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Not at all no tap dancing involved at all.  Although you might be showing signs of the Ostrich Effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Handbook for International Law • Occupation and Prescription said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Page #38: Terra nullius_ can be acquired by any state (not by a private person or company, unless acting for the state) that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.
> 
> Page #40:  Because such treaties transfer sovereignty, at least de facto, they should be distinguished from leases granted to foreign states under the domestic law of the grantor state, such as for military bases, although today the land may be made merely ‘available.'  Such leases involve no transfer of sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still dancing around my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your posting is actually questioning the extent to which the two treaties cited are all that is necessary.
> 
> ●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Jordan and Israel encapsulated the West Bank (including Jerusalem).  SO, the Timore Argument is that the Hashemite Kingdom did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.
> 
> ●  By Treaty the agree upon boundry between Egypt and Israel encapsulated the Gaza Strip.  SO, the Timore Argument is that the when Egypt disolved the All Palestine Government and then entered into a treaty with Israel, Egypt did not actually have sovereign control over that territory.​
> Let's just think about that for a moment.  Which state parties had control over what territory and when?  Who's in charge?
> 
> Certainly, by no stretch of the imagination are the Arab Palestinians recorded a being in charge or anything for the previous 800 years anyway... So if we subtract the Arab Palestinians out of the equation of sovereign control, then who had what control?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. *Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.*​
> When does the peaceful part kick in?
Click to expand...


Ironically, before the Oslo Accords, life was relatively peaceful in the West Bank.  I met a Palestinian youth at the Tomb of Abraham in 1982.  He had studied at Oxford University in England and was satisfied with his life.  Conditions became much more tumultuous after the Palestinians in the West Bank were given a certain degree of autonomy.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> that has the intention to claim sovereignty and occupies it by exercising effective and continued control. *Occupation is a peaceful means of acquiring territory.*​
> When does the peaceful part kick in?



It kicks in when the people in the territory stop attacking Israel and either built their own state and become independent or become a peaceful part of Israel.  But the people in the territory are the ones who have to make that decision and then follow through on it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Dajani house in Baq'a, Jerusalem, 1940's


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN.... Here we go again.  The poster just can’t get it through his head that the ONLY reason some Hasidic and Orthodox Jews oppose Israel is that they don’t believe Israel should exist till the Messiah comes . Ironically, they are not denying Jewish History and the biblical claims to the land.
  I attribute this to denial, ignorance, and stupidity. Keep posting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The GREAT tradegyhere is that this guy does not advocate for change in the economic and industrial development of the _(so-called)_ "state" _(Palestine)_.  But rather_*!*_ calls to the emotion that sets a volatile tone. 



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and especially the Gaza Strip, are like the child that expends more energy _(does more work)_ trying to get out of productive work, than the child would expend if he just did his chores.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The GREAT tradegyhere is that this guy does not advocate for change in the economic and industrial development of the _(so-called)_ "state" _(Palestine)_.  But rather_*!*_ calls to the emotion that sets a volatile tone.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank, Jerusalem, and especially the Gaza Strip, are like the child that expends more energy _(does more work)_ trying to get out of productive work, than the child would expend if he just did his chores.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are just acting like an ass.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr. Karma Nabulsi*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib On Her Resolution To Impeach President Donald Trump*

**
*Rashida Tlaib Receives Flash Drive With 10 Million Signatures To Impeach President Trump

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Pilgrimage to Peace P2P with Daoud Nassar & Tent of Nations*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Where Should The Birds Fly - Mona's Story*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*








The "Palestinian" billionaire Munib al-Masri on a visit
to the Hamas leadership in the Gaza Caliphate
*


----------



## rylah

*AP reporter:*

"I spent a week in #Gaza a couple weeks ago. What I saw: an exodus of young Palestinians. After years that Gaza has been mostly sealed off, Egypt opened its border, and reportedly 35,000 Palestinians have left to find a better life in the Gulf, Europe, Canada. Like these guys."





Daniel Estrin on Twitter


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Notre Dame de France, Jerusalem, 1910*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Was it worth it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Imagine, having your home stolen, forced to move all your belongings out, sit outside and watch while it's demolished then pay for the demolition.

Welcome to Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Too bad they didn’t accept Olmert’s peace plan.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Imagine, having your home stolen, forced to move all your belongings out, sit outside and watch while it's demolished then pay for the demolition.
> 
> Welcome to Palestine.



You keep contradicting Yourself, 
who needs to steal a pile of garbage?

That's just ridiculous.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*ISIS in Gaza Burning French Flag*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,



			
				Israel National News (.COM) said:
			
		

> 5/12/2019
> *'Peace plan won't be made public until after Shavuot'*
> Greenblatt says peace plan will deal with all core issues, calls on PA leadership to stop rejecting it before seeing it.



*(COMMENT)*

I can only wonder, who see it as the "Deal of the Century?"

A deal that is a neutral "win-win" will either fall on its face or puts one side ofrthe other at risk _(a good reason it might be rejected)_. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


Palestinians on s swing; am I missing something??


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel National News (.COM) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5/12/2019
> *'Peace plan won't be made public until after Shavuot'*
> Greenblatt says peace plan will deal with all core issues, calls on PA leadership to stop rejecting it before seeing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I can only wonder, who see it as the "Deal of the Century?"
> 
> A deal that is a neutral "win-win" will either fall on its face or puts one side ofrthe other at risk _(a good reason it might be rejected)_.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The plan is already out there. The Palestinians won't buy it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maher Abdelqader, Rashida Tlaib celebrates Palestinian thobes*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UK: Ahed Tamimi addresses pro-Palestine rally in London*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*RAFEEF ZIADAH 'SHADES OF ANGER' at the Abbey Theatre Dublin*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PRC Live in Conversation with Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*samih abu zakieh -copper art workshop*

**


----------



## rylah

*Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*

This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.

The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways. 

Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **



I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
Click to expand...


News13 reposted today, the Qatar's enjoy just transferred $30mil to Gaza this morning,
officials say, until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.

I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
Click to expand...


What do they do with all that money?


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **




UK's Channel 4 is even worse than the BBC.

It took Jordon Peterson to calmly dismantle one of their female lefty presenters.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
Click to expand...


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Billions!

The mind boggles.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UK's Channel 4 is even worse than the BBC.
> 
> It took Jordon Peterson to calmly dismantle one of their female lefty presenters.
Click to expand...


In Hebrew, the word 'lie' looks like it has only one leg to stand on, truth stands solid.
Peterson is real class act.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
Click to expand...


And nothing substantial to offer in return.


----------



## Mindful

D


rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the last sentence in the first paragraph was very revealing.  Not only Yemen, but how many wars, conflicts and famines in countries around the world get overlooked because of the world's fixation and obsession with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?  The Congo, Venezuela, Syria, Korea, Crimea, and probably many others that I don't even know about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
Click to expand...


Rylah:

Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
Click to expand...


A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
Click to expand...


That woman is as thick as a brick.

There are too many like her.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> News13 just reposted the Qatar enjoy just passed $30mil to Hamas this morning,
> until 10 o'clock every family receives a $100, where the rest goes no one even mentions.
> 
> I just tend to think these people are not straight in the head,  and that's the exact same envoy they've stoned last time after receiving $15mil. Qatar is probably the last Arab country willing to take the humiliation on live TV.
> And Gazans themselves will help break that camel's back as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do they do with all that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
Click to expand...

The story of Bil'am
Will a nation dwell alone and not be counted (or account for) among the nations?
Bamidbar 23:9


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That woman is as thick as a brick.
> 
> There are too many like her.
Click to expand...


Where did this happen? Just curious


----------



## rylah

*Meanwhile in Europe...*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Al Jazeera shows a side to Gaza that Western media won’t*
> 
> This report from Gaza on the Arabic language version of Al Jazeera TV, has just been translated into English.
> The video shows footage of bustling, well-stocked glitzy shopping malls, an impressive children’s water park (at 5.25 in the video), fancy restaurants, nice hotels, the crowded food markets, toy shops brimming with the latest plush toys (at 8.39 in the video). Western media has often focused on the Gaza to the detriment of many other issues and crises throughout the world, such as Yemen.
> 
> The BBC, in particular, has devoted an inordinate amount of its budget and staff to covering Gaza in thousands of reports over the years. But you would be hard pressed to learn from western media coverage that, despite many difficulties, Gaza’s economy is also thriving in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Or that life expectancy in Gaza is now five years higher than the world average. And unlike those typically seen in European and American media dispatches from Gaza, in the Al-Jazeera video, almost no Palestinian interviewed even mentions Israel. Instead, they point primarily to the internal Palestinian political rift between Hamas and Fatah as being their main concern in terms of their businesses thriving. Israel barely gets a look in.
> 
> **


Retail is a "money out" industry. There is no investment in manufacturing and agriculture that were "money in" industries. The only ways to solve the money in problem is foreign aid or lifting the siege so that money can come in through trade.


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That woman is as thick as a brick.
> 
> There are too many like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did this happen? Just curious
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Billions!
> 
> The mind boggles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That woman is as thick as a brick.
> 
> There are too many like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did this happen? Just curious
Click to expand...



Probably London. Backed by Jeremy Corbyn.

But never fear. 




A counter-demonstration, supporting Israel, moves through the London streets opposing a pro-Palestinian march on May 11, 2019. (Daniel LEAL-OLIVAS / AFP)


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That woman is as thick as a brick.
> 
> There are too many like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did this happen? Just curious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> D
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And nothing substantial to offer in return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rylah:
> 
> Just look at this face. Dim, vacuous, fits the profile.
> 
> View attachment 260669
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Jewish State is Anti Semitic? Where are the Hasidim when you need them !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That woman is as thick as a brick.
> 
> There are too many like her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did this happen? Just curious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Probably London. Backed by Jeremy Corbyn.
> 
> But never fear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A counter-demonstration, supporting Israel, moves through the London streets opposing a pro-Palestinian march on May 11, 2019. (Daniel LEAL-OLIVAS / AFP)
Click to expand...


About time !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Palestinian child executes doll while yelling Allah Akbar*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa’s Opening Address at the Penn BDS Conference*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Deema Wawe, only 12 years old, the youngest Palestinian prisoner in Israeli jails.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Deema Wawe, only 12 years old, the youngest Palestinian prisoner in Israeli jails.



She was arrested with a knife in her possession and admitted to hoping to murder Jews while becoming a martyr. She was released to the custody of her parents early due to her young age. 

Perhaps they should have arrested and charged her parents instead.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah on the Israel Lobby’s Double Standard – February 15, 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Students at Terra Santa College with Professors, Amin Sidawi, standing in white in the middle of top row, and George Shahla, seated just below him, Jerusalem, c. 1913


----------



## P F Tinmore

*From Indonesia with love *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Spoken Word with Zena Agha*

**


----------



## TrueTT

P F Tinmore said:


> *From Indonesia with love *



Two peoples who have literally nothing in common with each other save for their religion- and because of said religion one is showing solidarity with the other.

Islam is a tribalistic cancer.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Students at Terra Santa College with Professors, Amin Sidawi, standing in white in the middle of top row, and George Shahla, seated just below him, Jerusalem, c. 1913



That college didn't exist for another 10 years, and was finished only 20 years after that fake date
When attempting to falsify history at least do it with things not so easy to refute.

Do You find any integrity or pleasure in constant compulsion to manipulate and lie so boldly?


----------



## rylah

*All About The "FACTS"*


----------



## rylah

"Se keep that sad kitten face, let's rehearse it now one more time
As if You weren't out to slaughter the Jews and screwed Your own life"


----------



## Mindful

The dinosaurs were Palestinians. lol.


----------



## Mindful

Who is that guy? Imao.


----------



## rylah

*LatmaTV: Palestinizaurus Homo - Jihadus

*


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> Who is that guy? Imao.


Don't remember the guy's name, it's Caroline Glick's project.
Imagine her in the UN...


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is that guy? Imao.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't remember the guy's name, it's Caroline Glick's project.
> Imagine her in the UN...
Click to expand...


I doubt they'd get it.

They're not into satire.


----------



## Mindful

Here's one.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is that guy? Imao.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't remember the guy's name, it's Caroline Glick's project.
> Imagine her in the UN...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I doubt they'd get it.
> 
> They're not into satire.
Click to expand...

I mean Glick herself.
Whenever she speaks it's almost as a war between strong sincere emotion (on the brink of tears) , and sharpest intellect that leaves no lie shuttered. Emblem Jewish mama with no pretense.

The reptiloids wouldn't know where to start with her, and she won't be left in debt.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students at Terra Santa College with Professors, Amin Sidawi, standing in white in the middle of top row, and George Shahla, seated just below him, Jerusalem, c. 1913
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That college didn't exist for another 10 years, and was finished only 20 years after that fake date
> When attempting to falsify history at least do it with things not so easy to refute.
> 
> Do You find any integrity or pleasure in constant compulsion to manipulate and lie so boldly?
Click to expand...


Not the first time and it won’t be the last. He’s desperate and pathetic


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Here's one.


Y'all done with your Ziowood videos?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all done with your Ziowood videos?
Click to expand...


Don't watch them if you don't like them.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



You should tell your lot to not start wars of aggression, and then whinge and moan when they lose.


The UN *recommended *that the area that became the *West Bank* become part of a future Arab state, but this proposal was opposed by the Arab states at the time. In 1948, *Jordan occupied* the *West Bank* and annexed it in 1950. In 1967, Israel captured the *West Bank* from *Jordan* in the Six-Day War.

Wiki.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*KinderUSA with Dr. Laila Al-Marayati*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Do you know they are making Jewelry coming from the Rockets Hamas had sent???


----------



## P F Tinmore

* An Open Dialogue on Creativity and the Arts - Hala Alyan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*TEDxRamallah - Huwaida Arraf Humanity Has No Nationality*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TEDxRamallah - Khaled Al Sabawi - Keeping Palestine Cool: A Different Kind of Underground Movement*

**


----------



## Ropey

Anti-Israel Hamas-Linked CAIR Pressures Charities to Blacklist Conservative Nonprofits

The game is over.





Event flyer from May 2012 showing Nancy Pelosi in a Democratic Party fundraiser with leaders of Hamas & Muslim Brotherhood front groups.

Prices:

$61,600
$30,800
$15,000
$10,000
$5,000

Still surprised they invited Omar Suleiman to the House? 

Virtual reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Do You have the same civil rights as Canadians and Germans?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When You daily salivate  to such ridiculous Jihadi propaganda,
it's time to check for Alzheimer.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








I always get confused, is that the original Jordanian flag or the new one,
how many more Arab Muslim states are they demanding overall?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is just blatantly false.  Child soldiers are recruited and used in dozens of countries around the world:  Columbia, Kashmir, Lebanon, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Uganda.

In fact, 60% of non-state actors and more than 50 countries use child soldiers in violation of international and domestic law.  *Palestine is just one of MANY who deliberately recruit and use children for military ends.*

And rather than demonize Israel for their limited and correct response to these child soldiers, we should all be *holding Palestine and its governments responsible for permitting the recruiting and use of child soldiers.*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>




Its kinda ironic that you posted these two consecutively.  You are trying to make the argument that Palestinian "rights" includes the right to attack LEOs and soldiers without response or repercussion.  No such "right" exists, in Palestine or anywhere.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Its kinda ironic that you posted these two consecutively.  You are trying to make the argument that Palestinian "rights" includes the right to attack LEOs and soldiers without response or repercussion.  No such "right" exists, in Palestine or anywhere.
Click to expand...

It is always open season on foreign troops.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Hamas'tan the only country in the world where adult males consider it honorable
 to send children on suicide missions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gladys Peterson Pilgrimage (2009) Naim Ateek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas'tan the only country in the world where adult males consider it honorable to send children on suicide missions.
Click to expand...

There haven't been suicide bombers for more than a decade.

You need to update your propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas'tan the only country in the world where adult males consider it honorable to send children on suicide missions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There haven't been suicide bombers for more than a decade.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.
Click to expand...



Do You just want to get caught prostituting for the Jihadi filth,
or is it some kind of compulsive disorder You can't control?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There haven't been suicide bombers for more than a decade.
> 
> You need to update your propaganda.



Hamas planned suicide car-bombing 2019

Israel is just getting better at catching them before they go off.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yawn.,,   No Israelis in Palestine. Keep posting.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Can't You figure out why?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib shares her thoughts on impeachment proceedings and the Israel*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib shares her thoughts on impeachment proceedings and the Israel*
> 
> **



We're all agog.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib shares her thoughts on impeachment proceedings and the Israel*
> 
> **



Who cares what she " thinks?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Award Presentation for Vera Baboun*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dr.Mustafa Barghouti says relying on the US has failed completely*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good rains cause the collapse of the apartheid wall in #Jerusalem✌


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The so called riot.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Only named back to Yerushalayim, and as a capital of Israel.
Potato potato.

Talking about potatoes, can they actually write* "Palestine"* in Arabic?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The so called riot.



Shwaya shwaya...slowly learning...


----------



## P F Tinmore

* George Galloway Interviews Dr. Ramzy Baroud*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * George Galloway Interviews Dr. Ramzy Baroud*
> 
> **



I just can't see his name anymore without thinking about milk...sorry
That murmuring sound out of those mustache in front of millions on national TV,
I'm starting to see the natural 'intellectual' attraction.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*PALLYWOOD BLOOPERS*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*The Many Lies of Omar Barghouti*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?


Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
Click to expand...


If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Frankly, this is closer to how the real rooted people of the land who were not part of the Jewish tribe looked, than the new brand of dresses they present as historical..

Red was simply not an acceptable color for women to wear., they didn't try to stand out with flashy embroidery, much more modest people, the original Syrians and Lebanese, notice the focus on blue.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

What happened to "no to name calling"?
That was quick, straight to racist blood libels.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
Click to expand...

Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
Click to expand...



The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
Click to expand...


There are many reasons why there will never be either a One or Two State Solution; Below is just one reason . Ask any Pro Palestinian is they really want " peace" and there will be no response
Peace Not if Arabs deny Jewish link to holy sites – J.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
Click to expand...

You are being too vague and speculative.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
Click to expand...


On the contrary, the example of Arab Muslim behaviour concerning the Temple Mount is an excellent and concrete example.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary, the example of Arab Muslim behaviour concerning the Temple Mount is an excellent and concrete example.
Click to expand...

Which Arab Muslims?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Which Arab Muslims?



The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
Click to expand...

You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


On the Temple Mount?  Giving the Arab Muslim Palestinians the EXCLUSIVE right to pray on the Temple Mount?  To remove Jews who exercise their inherent, human right to practice their religion at their own Holy Places?  To bring weapons to a Holy Place and use them to kill Jews?!

The only thing Israel is doing to the Arabs on the Temple Mount is restricting Jewish rights so that the Arab Muslims don't have violent temper tantrums.  

The right to pray and practice one's religion, at one's own most Holy Place is not the slightest bit controversial.  It is a well-established right in international humanitarian law and in all of the relevant treaties. 

The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.  The Temple Mount issues of today are evidence that they can not.  That Arab Muslim Palestinians, in particular, are not capable of that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the Temple Mount?  Giving the Arab Muslim Palestinians the EXCLUSIVE right to pray on the Temple Mount?  To remove Jews who exercise their inherent, human right to practice their religion at their own Holy Places?  To bring weapons to a Holy Place and use them to kill Jews?!
> 
> The only thing Israel is doing to the Arabs on the Temple Mount is restricting Jewish rights so that the Arab Muslims don't have violent temper tantrums.
> 
> The right to pray and practice one's religion, at one's own most Holy Place is not the slightest bit controversial.  It is a well-established right in international humanitarian law and in all of the relevant treaties.
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.  The Temple Mount issues of today are evidence that they can not.  That Arab Muslim Palestinians, in particular, are not capable of that.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.


You are ignoring the difference between Israelis and Jews.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the Temple Mount?  Giving the Arab Muslim Palestinians the EXCLUSIVE right to pray on the Temple Mount?  To remove Jews who exercise their inherent, human right to practice their religion at their own Holy Places?  To bring weapons to a Holy Place and use them to kill Jews?!
> 
> The only thing Israel is doing to the Arabs on the Temple Mount is restricting Jewish rights so that the Arab Muslims don't have violent temper tantrums.
> 
> The right to pray and practice one's religion, at one's own most Holy Place is not the slightest bit controversial.  It is a well-established right in international humanitarian law and in all of the relevant treaties.
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.  The Temple Mount issues of today are evidence that they can not.  That Arab Muslim Palestinians, in particular, are not capable of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the difference between Israelis and Jews.
Click to expand...


You are dodging the point. The Temple Mount is the perfect place for the Arab Muslims to demonstrate how they will treat people who are not Arab Muslims. When people show you who they are, believe them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this thread was created just to avoid any normal discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
Click to expand...


What is vague about the demand for a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"?
What is vague about the fact that any land ceded to control of Arabs ends up being Judenrhein?
What is vague about the fact that 77% of Mandatory Palestine  under Arab control already bans Jews by law?

I don't have any indication to suggesting that an Arab domination would not be the downgrading of status and rights at the expense of all minorities, as wee see all around the Arab controlled lands in the middle east. It's 2nd grade calculation quiz.

99% of Jews in the middle east were ethnically cleansed by Arabs, while there are more Arabs living now in Israel than ever before under any non-Jewish rule, and with much higher quality of life and benefits of the citizen than in any Arab state.

I do argue that Israel is already the best and most advanced 'Arab' country,
there's simply no excuse to turn it into another Arab'stan, just because they dream of an Arab USSR Caliphate style empire. 2nd grade calculation quiz.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the Temple Mount?  Giving the Arab Muslim Palestinians the EXCLUSIVE right to pray on the Temple Mount?  To remove Jews who exercise their inherent, human right to practice their religion at their own Holy Places?  To bring weapons to a Holy Place and use them to kill Jews?!
> 
> The only thing Israel is doing to the Arabs on the Temple Mount is restricting Jewish rights so that the Arab Muslims don't have violent temper tantrums.
> 
> The right to pray and practice one's religion, at one's own most Holy Place is not the slightest bit controversial.  It is a well-established right in international humanitarian law and in all of the relevant treaties.
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.  The Temple Mount issues of today are evidence that they can not.  That Arab Muslim Palestinians, in particular, are not capable of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are ignoring the difference between Israelis and Jews.
Click to expand...

How do Arabs know if they're assaulting Jews on the Temple Mount
with or without Israeli citizenship? 

Or when they throw stones on Jews praying at the Western Wall, do they differentiate?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discuss away. Slime and name calling are not legitimate issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is vague about the demand for a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"?
> What is vague about the fact that any land ceded to control of Arabs ends up being Judenrhein?
> What is vague about the fact that 77% of Mandatory Palestine  under Arab control already bans Jews by law?
> 
> I don't have any indication to suggesting that an Arab domination would not be the downgrading of status and rights at the expense of all minorities, as wee see all around the Arab controlled lands in the middle east. It's 2nd grade calculation quiz.
> 
> 99% of Jews in the middle east were ethnically cleansed by Arabs, while there are more Arabs living now in Israel than ever before under any non-Jewish rule, and with much higher quality of life and benefits of the citizen than in any Arab state.
> 
> I do argue that Israel is already the best and most advanced 'Arab' country,
> there's simply no excuse to turn it into another Arab'stan, just because they dream of an Arab USSR Caliphate style empire. 2nd grade calculation quiz.
Click to expand...

The thing about Israeli propaganda organizations like MEMRI and PMW is that they will scrape the bottom of the barrel and portray those as typical.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arab Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who are present on the Temple Mount who harass Jews there.  The ones who smuggle weapons in (stones, firebombs, rifles).  The ones who throw hissy fits should a Jew DARE to mouth a prayer to G-d in the most sacred, holy place, or bring a Torah scroll there, or wear a Magen David.  Or (the HORROR) use a water fountain.  Those Arab Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are leaving out what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the Temple Mount?  Giving the Arab Muslim Palestinians the EXCLUSIVE right to pray on the Temple Mount?  To remove Jews who exercise their inherent, human right to practice their religion at their own Holy Places?  To bring weapons to a Holy Place and use them to kill Jews?!
> 
> The only thing Israel is doing to the Arabs on the Temple Mount is restricting Jewish rights so that the Arab Muslims don't have violent temper tantrums.
> 
> The right to pray and practice one's religion, at one's own most Holy Place is not the slightest bit controversial.  It is a well-established right in international humanitarian law and in all of the relevant treaties.
> 
> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.  The Temple Mount issues of today are evidence that they can not.  That Arab Muslim Palestinians, in particular, are not capable of that.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The point that you challenged rylah with is whether or not the Arab Muslim Palestinians were capable of not acting with typical Arab domination, but could treat Jews with respect and equality.


The problem with the Israelis is if you let them get their toe in the door the next thing you know is that they act like they own the place.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The problem with the Israelis is if you let them get their toe in the door the next thing you know is that they act like they own the place.



And you don't see the multiple layers of irony in that statement?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Syria.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Serbia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ibrahim Salameh with his family, c. 1934


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Do you speak Arabic, by chance?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The problem with the Israelis is if you let them get their toe in the door the next thing you know is that they act like they own the place.



Well, lets talk about "owning the place", then.  

We agree that people, all people, have the right to pray and worship as they choose in places that are Holy to them, yes?  We agree that this right is inherent, inviolable and entrenched in international humanitarian law, yes?  

We agree, then, that the Temple Mount, being Holy to people of more than one religious faith, should be a shared space and that all people have the right to be present there, to worship, to pray, to praise G-d, in their own language and with their own holy practices, symbols and books, yes?

And you DO understand that the Muslims who frequent the Temple Mount harass Jews when present and actively prevent them from worship, prayer and even possessing their holy books and symbols and from using their language in prayer.  And they do so with the threat of violence (backed up by actual violence).  

If you are trying to sell us on the idea that Arab Muslim Palestinians will lead a society which is not dominating or erasing of other cultures (particularly the Jewish culture), you are doing a poor job of it.  In fact, you seem to be digging in and saying that Arab Muslim Palestinians MUST dominate the Jewish people (Israelis).


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A coverage of Palestinians under Siege from Gaza to Hebron*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> We agree, then, that the Temple Mount, being Holy to people of more than one religious faith, should be a shared space and that all people have the right to be present there, to worship,


Except Israel will steal everything in sight.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If You are willing to apply the same standard, I'm more than open for a pleasant interaction.
> Should we discuss the demand for complete Arab domination, and its logical conclusion for minorities?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is vague about the demand for a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"?
> What is vague about the fact that any land ceded to control of Arabs ends up being Judenrhein?
> What is vague about the fact that 77% of Mandatory Palestine  under Arab control already bans Jews by law?
> 
> I don't have any indication to suggesting that an Arab domination would not be the downgrading of status and rights at the expense of all minorities, as wee see all around the Arab controlled lands in the middle east. It's 2nd grade calculation quiz.
> 
> 99% of Jews in the middle east were ethnically cleansed by Arabs, while there are more Arabs living now in Israel than ever before under any non-Jewish rule, and with much higher quality of life and benefits of the citizen than in any Arab state.
> 
> I do argue that Israel is already the best and most advanced 'Arab' country,
> there's simply no excuse to turn it into another Arab'stan, just because they dream of an Arab USSR Caliphate style empire. 2nd grade calculation quiz.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thing about Israeli propaganda organizations like MEMRI and PMW is that they will scrape the bottom of the barrel and portray those as typical.
Click to expand...


Before discussing the popularity of the support for this ideology among Arabs;
Does that mean You support or oppose the demands as presented by the Hamas chief?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, what evidence do you have that that would be true in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The practice on the Jewish holiest site.
> The demand to establish a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"
> The fact that all Arab societies ethnically cleansed Jews from allover the middle east, and among the least tolerant states for other minorities.
> The simple logical conclusion that the realization of the demand for Arab domination is at the expense of the largest Jewish population in the world, and the only independent minority nation in the middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are being too vague and speculative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is vague about the demand for a Caliphate and "rid Palestine of Jewish filth"?
> What is vague about the fact that any land ceded to control of Arabs ends up being Judenrhein?
> What is vague about the fact that 77% of Mandatory Palestine  under Arab control already bans Jews by law?
> 
> I don't have any indication to suggesting that an Arab domination would not be the downgrading of status and rights at the expense of all minorities, as wee see all around the Arab controlled lands in the middle east. It's 2nd grade calculation quiz.
> 
> 99% of Jews in the middle east were ethnically cleansed by Arabs, while there are more Arabs living now in Israel than ever before under any non-Jewish rule, and with much higher quality of life and benefits of the citizen than in any Arab state.
> 
> I do argue that Israel is already the best and most advanced 'Arab' country,
> there's simply no excuse to turn it into another Arab'stan, just because they dream of an Arab USSR Caliphate style empire. 2nd grade calculation quiz.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thing about Israeli propaganda organizations like MEMRI and PMW is that they will scrape the bottom of the barrel and portray those as typical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Before discussing the popularity of the support for this ideology among Arabs;
> Does that mean You support or oppose the demands as presented by the Hamas chief?
Click to expand...

Every country based on religion is shit.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We agree, then, that the Temple Mount, being Holy to people of more than one religious faith, should be a shared space and that all people have the right to be present there, to worship,
> 
> 
> 
> Except Israel will steal everything in sight.
Click to expand...


Steal like in building a mosque on top of Jewish holiest site,
 to pray facing another country?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Random picture of an Israeli kid from the Shoham school.
Thread hijacked by a  mindless spam bot.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
Click to expand...


 cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Really, don't you have anything better to do with your time?  Remember that not only are you sitting on Native American land, but you PERSONALLY were part of an occupying force in Vietnam!  Talk about being a hypocrite!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are gaining support all over the world.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



A man carries his child after police use tear gas and water cannons in response to an attempt by migrants to cross the border with Hungary.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are gaining support all over the world.
Click to expand...


And they can all jump off that bridge together.
What good did it ever bring any country to support the Jihadis?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are gaining support all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And they can all jump off that bridge together.
> What good did it ever bring any country to support the Jihadis?
Click to expand...

Some people did not get Israel's memo.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Dr. Alice Rothchild*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are gaining support all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And they can all jump off that bridge together.
> What good did it ever bring any country to support the Jihadis?
Click to expand...


There never will be


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This boy wants to drench Israelis with blood and death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> cheap vicious propaganda for the mindless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are gaining support all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And they can all jump off that bridge together.
> What good did it ever bring any country to support the Jihadis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There never will be
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here's an idea.  Maybe stop shooting rockets into Israel and Israel won't retaliate.  Children on BOTH sides will be saved.  Very simple solution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an idea.  Maybe stop shooting rockets into Israel and Israel won't retaliate.  Children on BOTH sides will be saved.  Very simple solution.
Click to expand...

Israel retaliates.  Good talking point.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Speak out against Hamas. And the people of Gaza who support Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview Regarding an Expedition to Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Apartheid: How Useful is the Framework for the Palestinian Struggle?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*“The Way We Are Wound” by Dana Dajani *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Hamas cancels Gaza classes to send children to 'riot' against Israel troops, IDF says - Global Diaspora News

Palestinian parents celebrate terrorist children's Martyrdom-death, PA promotes it - PMW Bulletins


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





The modern legal attempts to establish a national *homeland* for the *Jewish* people began in 1839 with a petition by Sir Moses Montefiore to Sa'id, Khedive of Egypt, for a *Jewish homeland* in the region of Palestine.

Agree!  ALL people have to have a HOMELAND to live in.  Wait...... The Hasidic Jews don't think so.  KEEP POSTING


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Starr Forum: Arab Spring and its Impact on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Let us look at what else she had to say:

Tlaib's claims that her Arab ancestors provided a 'safe haven' to Jews after the Holocaust ignores the Jewish presence in the region and efforts to establish a Jewish state that predated the Holocaust, ignores that her ancestors allied with Hitler at the time of the Holocaust, and ignores decades of violence and terrorism directed at Israel both before, during, and after the Holocaust," he wrote in _The Washington Examiner._

KEEP POSTING!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow.  She has some nerve to be calling the loof plant "a very (Arab) Palestinian plant" and rejecting everything Israeli about it when this plant has been known in the territory and has had culinary uses going back 3500 years, LONG before the Arabs every showed up to claim it.  

This weaponizing of local foods is ridiculous.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  She has some nerve to be calling the loof plant "a very (Arab) Palestinian plant" and rejecting everything Israeli about it when this plant has been known in the territory and has had culinary uses going back 3500 years, LONG before the Arabs every showed up to claim it.
> 
> This weaponizing of local foods is ridiculous.
Click to expand...


They don’t have the land so they have to claim Something!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

#Palestine || Israeli occupation forces confiscate food packages which was planned to be distributed on the needy people in the occupied city of Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>





 



L_o_L.....


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Helen Caldicott interviews Laila ElHaddad *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Breaking Poems and Breaking Stereotypes: An Interview with Suheir Hammad *

**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Deliberately Targeting Children and Whole Families - Max Igan & Noor Harazeen - July 25, 2014*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab - Palestine: The Ongoing Nakba*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir on President Trump's Jerusalem declaration and the state of cinema in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*OIC Jerusalem Speech: Turkey's President Erdogan speaks on Jerusalem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Curator's Tour: Omar Kholeif on Emily Jacir: Europa*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



You honestly talked it into yourself that there was no Antisemitism either before or after WW 11.   How desperate can one get?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers assaulted an elderly Palestinian woman and her son while they were trying to prevent occupation forces from demolishing their home in the mountains Yatta near #Hebron.

Palestine, where you are not allowed to defend your mother, your wife, your children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights to Resources*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


Just want everyone to know; the above are Hasidic Jews;You know, the kind that doesn’t think Israel should exist. Keep posting ridiculous desperate ignorant posts making a fool of yourself


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

YAFA JARRAR


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Food Philosophies with Joudie Kalla*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Remi Kanazi - This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings [Official Video]*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*BALFOUR: A Legacy of Expulsion, Ghada karmi*

**


----------



## Ropey

They see what's coming.











Gaza houses covering tunnels.

They're going down.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Salma Karmi-Ayyoub4*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the occupied Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ilan Pappé in conversation with Dima Khalidi.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from the occupied Jerusalem



You  mean E. Jerusalem where the Verboten Western Wall is??How frustrating for you.  Keep posting !!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



What exactly does this (a picture of the Temple Mount) represent?  Jews cannot pray there at all, and they face severe limitations when it comes to even visiting the site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dr. Rashid Khalidi


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Private Thoughts with Lara Kiswani on The Mentality of Militarization*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem, looking to the south-west, with the King David Hotel, YMCA, Ecole Biblique, French Consulate, Terra Sancta College and Talbiyyeh, 1931


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Christian, Muslim or Jewish, it’s not about religion, it’s about Humanity.

There. I fixed it for you. 

Erasing Jews just demonstrates how you exclude Jews from humanity.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christian, Muslim or Jewish, it’s not about religion, it’s about Humanity.
> 
> There. I fixed it for you.
> 
> Erasing Jews just demonstrates how you exclude Jews from humanity.
Click to expand...


Just sit back and enjoy his frustration


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Many Israelis have lost their children to terrorists as well.  And Israelis don't put their children in harm's way, like Palestinians do.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many Israelis have lost their children to terrorists as well.  And Israelis don't put their children in harm's way, like Palestinians do.
Click to expand...

Not really. Israelis raise their families in Israel's war zone. They are responsible for their families safety.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with Mnar Muhawesh of Mint Press News*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why the Israeli Election Didn’t Matter | Robert Wright & Yousef Munayyer*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh PAH-leeze.  You are using memes like this as a way of erasing and replacing Israel.  Its an emotional appeal using false information to confuse the issue.

Palestine is the former name of a geographical territory.  It is also the name of the potential future State of Palestine, which represents the ARAB Palestinian people.  

By deliberately confusing the two, and erasing Israel which represents the JEWISH Palestinian people, you are just attempting to delegitimize Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh bull-hockey.  Zionists believe that the Jewish people, like all peoples, have the right of self-determination on their indigenous homelands.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




How did they die?  Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi - The 'Treasure' of Revolutions: A Tradition of Thought and Practice.*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



They look it


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Crimes against Humanity in Palestine Exposed*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh bull-hockey.  Zionists believe that the Jewish people, like all peoples, have the right of self-determination on their indigenous homelands.[/QUO
> 
> You don’t understand. This is his discrete way of saying that Zionists aren’t real Jews; only the ones who believe that Israel should be destroyed are ( the Hasidic or very Orthodox Jews)  are real and believe in GOD.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli occupation court decided to extend the administrative detention of the spokeswoman of Anin L-Qaid network Boshra Al-Tawil for 4 months for the second time, with a decision to be the last extension.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Watch Globalvision not Eurovision with Rasha Nahas*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Canadian Student Shot by Israeli Sniper in the West Bank*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



East Jerusalem is beautiful


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is beautiful
Click to expand...

It was until Israel fucked it up.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is beautiful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was until Israel fucked it up.
Click to expand...







Before Israel anyone barely lived in much of the area now called "East Jerusalem".
Arabs settled around, following the establishment of the first neighborhoods outside the city walls by the Jewish community.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINIAN LAWYER: JONATHAN KUTTAB; FIDA QISHTA--WORLD CAN'T WAIT*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A message of hope from Palestine: Mitri Raheb, Christmas Church, Bethlehem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is beautiful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was until Israel fucked it up.
Click to expand...





P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> East Jerusalem is beautiful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was until Israel fucked it up.
Click to expand...


Tell us please how Israel fucked up. You’re just angry because Israel won a War the Arabs initiated and they now have access to their Holy Sites l


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabian Royal Tribes - Banu Tamimi

*Dynasties[edit]*

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
The convicted criminal belongs to the royal tribe of Qatar


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Owner of the land = blond non-Semitic Bosnian Muslim girl.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabian Royal Tribes - Banu Tamimi
> 
> *Dynasties[edit]*
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> The convicted criminal belongs to the royal tribe of Qatar
Click to expand...


Well, the name is Qatari and the features are Bosnian, but one thing we do know for sure--she ain't Palestinian.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



America is also a nation of immigrants.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabian Royal Tribes - Banu Tamimi
> 
> *Dynasties[edit]*
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> The convicted criminal belongs to the royal tribe of Qatar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, the name is Qatari and the features are Bosnian, but one thing we do know for sure--she ain't Palestinian.
Click to expand...


Families from Bosnia usually carry the name 'Bushnak' in variations.

The myth that the Arabian feudal families, like the Husseinis and Tamimis are Bosnians,
was invented by the German doctors, to allow the Mufti and close family join the SS ranks and the H.Youth. Who knows what went in the breeding 'farms', the last commander who escaped trial after the war, recently died in a Syrian bunker, built for him in the vicinity of the Assad palace.

Abbas, Tamimi, Masri, Iraqi, Mughrabi...all claim to be 'Palestinians' when talking to gullible westerners,
but instantly remember their origins when trying to squeeze the Arab nations.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Istanbul in solidarity with Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Istanbul in solidarity with Palestine.


 
Go think that a Muslim Country would be in solidarity with them.,,  Im shocked !!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



This is a red herring.
The falsely attributed sentence, was invented by the famous Christian re-constructionist Alexander Keith.

Neither was Herzl the father of the movement, because Zionism organized before he was even born,
as a response to Arab pogroms against the local Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **



And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



At 3,500 y.o. she looks surprisingly young,
though the soldier is probably 18 older than her imaginary country.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



She looks it.  I realize this upsets you, but the Jewish Religion came to fruition there and the Jewish Religion is a much older Religion then Islam is. Deal with it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



So what?  Any people born before the year 1776 were older than the United States at that point in time.  Most countries in the world celebrate Independence Days.  Any people born before those dates were older than their countries for awhile (such as a person born in Brazil before that nation declared independence from Portugal).


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Any people born before the year 1776 were older than the United States at that point in time.  Most countries in the world celebrate Independence Days.  Any people born before those dates were older than their countries for awhile (such as a person born in Brazil before that nation declared independence from Portugal).
Click to expand...


And besides that, don't older ppl have to listen to ppl in authority, even if they are younger than them?  If an old lady shoplifts, let's say, and she is stopped by a security guard or policeman, does she have the right to say,  "Leave me alone, I can do whatever I want.  Respect your elders"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Alex Awad: Palestinian Christians in the Shadow of Christian Zionism*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
Click to expand...

Load of Israeli hooey, of course.

At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.

In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.

Forgotten Christians​


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
Click to expand...


Your article does not contradict rylah's statistics about Bethlehem in any way.  These statistics have been well-documented.  Before 1993, Christians constituted 60% of Bethlehem's population, but since the PA took control, they have dwindled to 15%.  Christians are persecuted throughout the Middle East.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your article does not contradict rylah's statistics about Bethlehem in any way.  These statistics have been well-documented.  Before 1993, Christians constituted 60% of Bethlehem's population, but since the PA took control, they have dwindled to 15%.  Christians are persecuted throughout the Middle East.
Click to expand...

More Israeli hooey.

The Jerusalem/Bethlehem area was the center of Christians in Palestine. A lot of that area has been ethnically cleaned by Israel for Jewish only settlements. The governorate of Bethlehem is only 18% of what it was in 1993. Those Christians had to move out.

*Amal Nassar | Tent of Nations | Reconciliation & Peacemaking | The GlobalChurch Project*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
Click to expand...

I think You need to re-read my post,
because none of that addresses or refutes any of the facts I've brought up,
and that was elementary school English.

If You want to talk about Christians before the Arab failure at erasing the local Jewish community,
we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Merely facts that contradict lame Islamist propaganda.
Still not a simple argument to refute my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*This woman reunites Palestinians with their farming heritage*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


The truth hurts. Deal with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
Click to expand...

The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And what happens to Christians who don't follow the main Jihadi party line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.
Click to expand...


So, That’s the reason why Muslims are killing Christians and other Religions all over the World? That makes sense ,only in your deranged mind


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load of Israeli hooey, of course.
> 
> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians—7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of “Judaizing” Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar rounds—launched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacob’s Convent, the Archangel’s Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians​
> 
> 
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, That’s the reason why Muslims are killing Christians and other Religions all over the World? That makes sense ,only in your deranged mind
Click to expand...

Deflection and off topic.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think You need to re-read my post, because that doesn't address or refute I've brought up
> that was elementary school English.
> 
> If You want to talk what happened before Arabs failed to wipe out the Jews, or what happened before Bethlehem came under PA control, we could as well discuss the 60 million Christians murdered by the Jihadi degenerates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, That’s the reason why Muslims are killing Christians and other Religions all over the World? That makes sense ,only in your deranged mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection and off topic.
Click to expand...


Doesn’t change the facts.  “ Selective outrage” is racist and bigoted


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, That’s the reason why Muslims are killing Christians and other Religions all over the World? That makes sense ,only in your deranged mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection and off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn’t change the facts.  “ Selective outrage” is racist and bigoted
Click to expand...

You should be outraged that Israel is full of shit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hmmm, nice crowd.

*Audience Exits 'Not Backing Down' UMass Amherst*

**


----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Stories of the catastrophe:
“An old man, known to the entire city to be deaf, must have not heard the curfew announcement. The soldier pointed the gun at him and warned him but he kept on walking. I still remember him falling to the ground.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Stories of the catastrophe:
"I can close my eyes and remember every single detail about that village. The streets, the neighborhood. The fig and berry trees. Every single detail. It is like I can see it right before my eyes."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Stories of the catastrophe:
"When we heard about the massacre in Deir Yassin, how they lined up the men and shot them, it was too much. They were taking the girls too. That’s when we left. If you were in our place, what would you have done?"


----------



## rylah

*A PALESTINIAN MYTH - The so called "NAKBA"*

This is what happens when You have a compulsion to exaggerate and lie about everything,
the lie itself causes Your defeat.

Ain't that ironic?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour accepts the 2019 North Star Award*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth hurts. Deal with it.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is that Israel is full of shit. Always has been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, That’s the reason why Muslims are killing Christians and other Religions all over the World? That makes sense ,only in your deranged mind
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection and off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn’t change the facts.  “ Selective outrage” is racist and bigoted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should be outraged that Israel is full of shit.
Click to expand...


You should be outraged that even if Israel were psychotic enough to give in to ALL demands they have stated many times that their long term goal is Israel’s destruction 
  You should be outraged that the PLO declared Jews have NO rights to the Western Wall. Tell us please why Israel should even consider handing over E. Jerusalem? There will be no response 
  You should be outraged that the Palestinians are full of Shit 
    You should be outraged Since you are “ peacefully “ and for “ justice “ at the atrocities the Muslim World is doing.  If this was Israel???? Face it; You’re a hypocrite


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why do the Palestinians burn their land?


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



so...........if you 

 could elaborate on this picture, what's the BACK STORY ?





 That bombed-out building in the background…………





 What’s the scoop pt?


(a) Israel had 

 nothing better to do than……………. To drop a bomb on a building/basketball court/playground area/school ?  what ‘hood’ is this?


(b) (after launching rockets, bombs and stuff into israel) we all know how terrorists/pussy-faced hamass LOVE to 

 dive for cover 

 under their grandmothers bloomers & “stoops” and hospitals and schools (and so forth).







 Is that what happened here?  Is that why the building is disheveled ?





 maybe hamsss did it ?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fi Mahal “Over the Rainbow” Lina Sleibi ft. Johno*

**


----------



## Ropey

When it comes, it's not going to be pretty for these guys...

...and it's coming.

From the GCC, not Israel.  

Well, maybe Israel too.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




I will , THANK YOU !!  After all , Palestinians are proud if their Children are martyrs


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

The daughter the mother Tamimi...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Tinmore's love.


----------



## MJB12741

*GREAT SUBJECT:  PALESTINE TODAY!*






*
Palestinian Pop Star:  ‘Let’s Stab Israelis and Bomb Tel Aviv’*


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>



stop being 

 dramatic...


... imagine if "israel" 

 really takes a heavy hand.....with hamass and friends....


goodbye lights 






blocked roads 







israel supplies electric and _what-not infrastructure_ to the same people who shoot rockets at them....


----------



## Ropey

The tunnels are going down ... regardless.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

AH, but if this were only true.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Courage is a "virtue" ✦✦→ something about facing danger.

This is a kind of fake interpretation of a child secure that the will not be hurt.  It would be closer to being accurate if the child knew the real and terrible pain should he provoke an adverse consequence; like a scary movie he would run away, as fast as he could.  But here, he shows no fear because he knows of no associated consequence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Any occupation of the West Bank could've ended in the years 2000 or 2008.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The Palestinians just Love ❤️ their Martyrs. Especially if they are Children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Ready...and ACTION!  CUT!  That'a wrap.  Now get it to the editing room at Pallywood Productions."


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This picture used in the Anadolu Agency story, •  7 Palestinian children imprisoned for throwing stones story • by By Kaamil Ahmed:  

It is such a good picture that used for Kurdistan Oppression Propaganda.



 ​
*(COMMENT)*

Most people just propagate such messages → spreading and promoting their set idea of how the world should work.

In this particular story, the frame is about "boys" being punished.  While the key points about the "boys" were probably true, the photo of the "girl" _(with the rock)_ being faced down by the Police Officer in the rifle kneeling position looks strange.  The pose with the left twisted arm, palm to the rear, body swiveled in a belly dance stance is rather interesting.

We don't know the provenance of the photo or even content; but, what we do know is that the photo was presented without a context. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This picture used in the Anadolu Agency story, • 7 Palestinian children imprisoned for throwing stones story • by By Kaamil Ahmed:
> 
> It is such a good picture that used for Kurdistan Oppression Propaganda.
> View attachment 263002
> ​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Most people just propagate such messages → spreading and promoting their set idea of how the world should work.
> 
> In this particular story, the frame is about "boys" being punished.  While the key points about the "boys" were probably true, the photo of the "girl" _(with the rock)_ being faced down by the Police Officer in the rifle kneeling position looks strange.  The pose with the left twisted arm, palm to the rear, body swiveled in a belly dance stance is rather interesting.
> 
> We don't know the provenance of the photo or even content; but, what we do know is that the photo was presented without a context.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


 
The photo looks staged to me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Ilan Pappé is one of those political activists that doubles as an Academician.  They have to sell books to maintain their income and event draw as a lecturer.  In Ilan Pappé's case, it is all about the economic boycott against Israel and the promotion of anti-Israeli political impairment in favor of the Arab Palestinian.




​


P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

In each population set of professional academician, there are going to be a number of proponents that oppose national political and security concern.  Dr Pappé is not only one of them, but he is in league with the like of Dr Noam Chomsky.  Neither is concerned with the probable outcomes should the Arab Palestinians dominate the region and expose what is now Israel to the economic and developmental condition that only the best of the Arab Palestinian leadership could muster.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Ilan Pappé is one of those political activists that doubles as an Academician.  They have to sell books to maintain their income and event draw as a lecturer.  In Ilan Pappé's case, it is all about the economic boycott against Israel and the promotion of anti-Israeli political impairment in favor of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In each population set of professional academician, there are going to be a number of proponents that oppose national political and security concern.  Dr Pappé is not only one of them, but he is in league with the like of Dr Noam Chomsky.  Neither is concerned with the probable outcomes should the Arab Palestinians dominate the region and expose what is now Israel to the economic and developmental condition that only the best of the Arab Palestinian leadership could muster.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Ilan Pappé is one of those political activists that doubles as an Academician.  They have to sell books to maintain their income and event draw as a lecturer.  In Ilan Pappé's case, it is all about the economic boycott against Israel and the promotion of anti-Israeli political impairment in favor of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In each population set of professional academician, there are going to be a number of proponents that oppose national political and security concern.  Dr Pappé is not only one of them, but he is in league with the like of Dr Noam Chomsky.  Neither is concerned with the probable outcomes should the Arab Palestinians dominate the region and expose what is now Israel to the economic and developmental condition that only the best of the Arab Palestinian leadership could muster.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?
Click to expand...



Bring it!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Academicians like Ilan Pappé, who need to make new theories to publish _(dissertation type material creation)_, often try to change the way in which we see the world.  When Issac Newton wrote the "_Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica_" _(AKA "Principia")_, it was, as we say in government, close enough for government wrote, but not exactly correct.  And while much of the world still uses Newtonian Mechcanics, in the end, we know that in the realm of the very very fast and the ultra quantum sizes, it does not work.  In those cases, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity set in.  And even today, we know that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are not totally correct.  They simply don't link together.

Much of today's modern political activism, such as the explanation of "Classical Colonialism" and "Settler Colonialism Projects" are """ approximations """ of the reality.   Ilan Pappé makes a new theory about the interpretation of contemporary history and then attempts to apply new versions to explain the action. 



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?


*(COMMENT)*

Ilan Pappé, makes a point of orbiting the presentation on:

Settler Colonialism by changing the definition to assume the new characteristic of not being sent a Colonial Empire.  This is a very critical difference between true Colonialism previously defined in the post 1967 era.

A second major redefining is relative to the Exploitation of the _(so-called)_ indigenous population versus the removal of the population _(which is NOT a characteristic of Classical Colonialism)_. 

The only way to make the concept of "colonialism" apply in the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is to change the definition.  Otherwise, the entire concept becomes bogus. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Academicians like Ilan Pappé, who need to make new theories to publish _(dissertation type material creation)_, often try to change the way in which we see the world.  When Issac Newton wrote the "_Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica_" _(AKA "Principia")_, it was, as we say in government, close enough for government wrote, but not exactly correct.  And while much of the world still uses Newtonian Mechcanics, in the end, we know that in the realm of the very very fast and the ultra quantum sizes, it does not work.  In those cases, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity set in.  And even today, we know that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are not totally correct.  They simply don't link together.
> 
> Much of today's modern political activism, such as the explanation of "Classical Colonialism" and "Settler Colonialism Projects" are """ approximations """ of the reality.   Ilan Pappé makes a new theory about the interpretation of contemporary history and then attempts to apply new versions to explain the action.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Ilan Pappé, makes a point of orbiting the presentation on:
> 
> Settler Colonialism by changing the definition to assume the new characteristic of not being sent a Colonial Empire.  This is a very critical difference between true Colonialism previously defined in the post 1967 era.
> 
> A second major redefining is relative to the Exploitation of the _(so-called)_ indigenous population versus the removal of the population _(which is NOT a characteristic of Classical Colonialism)_.
> 
> The only way to make the concept of "colonialism" apply in the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is to change the definition.  Otherwise, the entire concept becomes bogus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Settler colonialism and apartheid have been used to describe Israel since the middle of the 20th century. Occupation had been the term of choice all through the fake peace process. Now settler colonialism, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing are coming back into main stream discourse. Settler colonialism is a perfect match for Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Academicians like Ilan Pappé, who need to make new theories to publish _(dissertation type material creation)_, often try to change the way in which we see the world.  When Issac Newton wrote the "_Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica_" _(AKA "Principia")_, it was, as we say in government, close enough for government wrote, but not exactly correct.  And while much of the world still uses Newtonian Mechcanics, in the end, we know that in the realm of the very very fast and the ultra quantum sizes, it does not work.  In those cases, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity set in.  And even today, we know that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are not totally correct.  They simply don't link together.
> 
> Much of today's modern political activism, such as the explanation of "Classical Colonialism" and "Settler Colonialism Projects" are """ approximations """ of the reality.   Ilan Pappé makes a new theory about the interpretation of contemporary history and then attempts to apply new versions to explain the action.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Ilan Pappé, makes a point of orbiting the presentation on:
> 
> Settler Colonialism by changing the definition to assume the new characteristic of not being sent a Colonial Empire.  This is a very critical difference between true Colonialism previously defined in the post 1967 era.
> 
> A second major redefining is relative to the Exploitation of the _(so-called)_ indigenous population versus the removal of the population _(which is NOT a characteristic of Classical Colonialism)_.
> 
> The only way to make the concept of "colonialism" apply in the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is to change the definition.  Otherwise, the entire concept becomes bogus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism and apartheid have been used to describe Israel since the middle of the 20th century. Occupation had been the term of choice all through the fake peace process. Now settler colonialism, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing are coming back into main stream discourse. Settler colonialism is a perfect match for Israel.
Click to expand...


This is merely an appeal to numbers, people said the earth was flat - for how many years?
Relying on a logical fallacy aka "if a lie keeps repeated it must be true" - is hardly an argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A beautiful mosque in Gaza, Al Khalidi Mosque...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine, Britain and the Balfour Declaration: Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Academicians like Ilan Pappé, who need to make new theories to publish _(dissertation type material creation)_, often try to change the way in which we see the world.  When Issac Newton wrote the "_Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica_" _(AKA "Principia")_, it was, as we say in government, close enough for government wrote, but not exactly correct.  And while much of the world still uses Newtonian Mechcanics, in the end, we know that in the realm of the very very fast and the ultra quantum sizes, it does not work.  In those cases, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity set in.  And even today, we know that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are not totally correct.  They simply don't link together.
> 
> Much of today's modern political activism, such as the explanation of "Classical Colonialism" and "Settler Colonialism Projects" are """ approximations """ of the reality.   Ilan Pappé makes a new theory about the interpretation of contemporary history and then attempts to apply new versions to explain the action.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but would you care to critique any of the issues he brings forth?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Ilan Pappé, makes a point of orbiting the presentation on:
> 
> Settler Colonialism by changing the definition to assume the new characteristic of not being sent a Colonial Empire.  This is a very critical difference between true Colonialism previously defined in the post 1967 era.
> 
> A second major redefining is relative to the Exploitation of the _(so-called)_ indigenous population versus the removal of the population _(which is NOT a characteristic of Classical Colonialism)_.
> 
> The only way to make the concept of "colonialism" apply in the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is to change the definition.  Otherwise, the entire concept becomes bogus.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism and apartheid have been used to describe Israel since the middle of the 20th century. Occupation had been the term of choice all through the fake peace process. Now settler colonialism, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing are coming back into main stream discourse. Settler colonialism is a perfect match for Israel.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


>



No, it is the only Jewish state in the world, as is evidenced by the Star of David on its flag.  Twenty-five flags in the world have a cross and fifteen have a crescent.  If the Palestinians want to share the land of Eretz Yisrael and do it in a reasonable way, that is fine.  (This is not to say that it won't be a tremendous sacrifice on the part of the Jews, because it is).  But as for REPLACING it--that will never happen!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Teachers Left Behind (by Rania Khalek)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Panel 3 Is Freedom of Speech Encouraged on American Campuses?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Christians of Palestine, Life Behind the Wall*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Water crisis may make Gaza Strip uninhabitable by 2020*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey

Don't be crying when comes the dying.


----------



## Ropey

That's not seeking the peace so when war comes, it's not going to be symmetrical.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is one of those "Feel Good" presentations.  At the point 25:31 You see the speaker suggest that Palestine, although stateless, way able to make good law - then - she rattles off a couple with a pause and noted 3379 (as an example)(meaning A/RES/3379 (XXX)] first suggestion it was a law, THEN saying zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination, not mentioning that it had no real standing, was unenforceable and then was revoked by  A/RES/46/86. 



P F Tinmore said:


> *The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*
> 
> **


*(COMMENT)*

This is just another example of the Arab Palestinian Propaganda that, while sprinkled with some truths, they convey a falsehood.

While the Addition Protocols _[Article 1(4) provides that armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination, alien occupation or racist regimes are to be considered international conflicts.]_ suggest that there is some legitimacy in armed struggle, it still does not negate the Arab Palestinians to comply with the Customary and International Humanitarian Law.  It does not negate the authority to prosecute Arab Palestinians under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.

Don't be fooled.  This presentation is riddled with misinformation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of those "Feel Good" presentations.  At the point 25:31 You see the speaker suggest that Palestine, although stateless, way able to make good law - then - she rattles off a couple with a pause and noted 3379 (as an example)(meaning A/RES/3379 (XXX)] first suggestion it was a law, THEN saying zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination, not mentioning that it had no real standing, was unenforceable and then was revoked by  A/RES/46/86.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is just another example of the Arab Palestinian Propaganda that, while sprinkled with some truths, they convey a falsehood.
> 
> While the Addition Protocols _[Article 1(4) provides that armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination, alien occupation or racist regimes are to be considered international conflicts.]_ suggest that there is some legitimacy in armed struggle, it still does not negate the Arab Palestinians to comply with the Customary and International Humanitarian Law.  It does not negate the authority to prosecute Arab Palestinians under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.
> 
> Don't be fooled.  This presentation is riddled with misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating? (Not just a data dump.)


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is one of those "Feel Good" presentations.  At the point 25:31 You see the speaker suggest that Palestine, although stateless, way able to make good law - then - she rattles off a couple with a pause and noted 3379 (as an example)(meaning A/RES/3379 (XXX)] first suggestion it was a law, THEN saying zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination, not mentioning that it had no real standing, was unenforceable and then was revoked by  A/RES/46/86.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is just another example of the Arab Palestinian Propaganda that, while sprinkled with some truths, they convey a falsehood.
> 
> While the Addition Protocols _[Article 1(4) provides that armed conflicts in which peoples are fighting against colonial domination, alien occupation or racist regimes are to be considered international conflicts.]_ suggest that there is some legitimacy in armed struggle, it still does not negate the Arab Palestinians to comply with the Customary and International Humanitarian Law.  It does not negate the authority to prosecute Arab Palestinians under Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.
> 
> Don't be fooled.  This presentation is riddled with misinformation.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating? (Not just a data dump.)
Click to expand...






_*"Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating?"*_






_wha_ttt?








*"Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating?"*














 i can't anymore _wiff you

_


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

* Gigi Hadid’s brother releases music video filmed in Palestine*
The younger brother of supermodel Gigi Hadid released a music video on Instagram about his recent visit to the occupied Palestinian territories


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You are a very poor investigator.  

Further, in the case of the Arab Palestinians, we are talking about a period of over seventy years.  Your entire position is based on the objective that the Arab Palestinian has the right to do any damn thing they want.  Target any civilian, groups of civilians or even uninvolved men, women and children. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating? (Not just a data dump.)


*(COMMENT)*

I have listed these over and over again.  

Article 2 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, which parallels the Prosecutorial authority of Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention, with parallels to Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), 

1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or againsta place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructurefacility:

(a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

(b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where suchdestruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss./...A/RES/52/164​
2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth inparagraph 1 of the present article.3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:

(a) Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article;or

(b) Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the presentarticle; or

(c) In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall beintentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the groupor be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​
Every single time that Arab Palestinians assault, or engage Israeli Civil Administration Officials or  Police, Security and Intelligence resources they with the intent to do harm to the Occupation Force, they are open to prosecution under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.

•  Firing Rockets is a violation;
•  Indiscriminate Fire is a violation;
•  Assualt on any one of the officials, is a violation;
•  Incendiary Devices is actually a violation; 
•  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Olympic Team, it was a violation;
•  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Commerical Bus _(Dalal al-Maghribi Coastal Road massacre)_ it was multiple violation;
•  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the The Achille Lauro multiple violation;​
And since you don't want a "data dump" you can see a list of illegal events Global Terrorism Database is a database of incidents of terrorism from 1970 to July 2017.  You can filter out listings pertaining to Hostile Arab Palestinian terrorist acts.

Additionally, there is Customary Law that deals with _(but not limited to)_ Customary Rules 20 thru 24 → and → 96 and 97.

Don't play innocent → don't even suggest → you don't understand that the border incidents for the past year demonstrate more than daily criminal activity.  You cannot launch incendiary devices and not understand that it constitutes indiscriminate attacks against the civilian community.  Nor can you ignore that the Arab Palestinian participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under various international conventions. 

•  War Crimes: Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, and  killing of hostages, targeting of public or private property, wanton destruction justified by Arab Palestinity. 

•  Crimes against humanity: Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.​There have been very few groups and organizations that have had a less of a connection to terrorism in the last half century then that of the Arab Palestinians that double as _Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters_.
​Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are a very poor investigator.
> 
> Further, in the case of the Arab Palestinians, we are talking about a period of over seventy years.  Your entire position is based on the objective that the Arab Palestinian has the right to do any damn thing they want.  Target any civilian, groups of civilians or even uninvolved men, women and children.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating? (Not just a data dump.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have listed these over and over again.
> 
> Article 2 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, which parallels the Prosecutorial authority of Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention, with parallels to Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938),
> 
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or againsta place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructurefacility:
> 
> (a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> (b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where suchdestruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss./...A/RES/52/164​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth inparagraph 1 of the present article.3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> (a) Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article;or
> 
> (b) Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the presentarticle; or
> 
> (c) In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall beintentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the groupor be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​
> Every single time that Arab Palestinians assault, or engage Israeli Civil Administration Officials or  Police, Security and Intelligence resources they with the intent to do harm to the Occupation Force, they are open to prosecution under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.
> 
> •  Firing Rockets is a violation;
> •  Indiscriminate Fire is a violation;
> •  Assualt on any one of the officials, is a violation;
> •  Incendiary Devices is actually a violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Olympic Team, it was a violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Commerical Bus _(Dalal al-Maghribi Coastal Road massacre)_ it was multiple violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the The Achille Lauro multiple violation;​
> And since you don't want a "data dump" you can see a list of illegal events Global Terrorism Database is a database of incidents of terrorism from 1970 to July 2017.  You can filter out listings pertaining to Hostile Arab Palestinian terrorist acts.
> 
> Additionally, there is Customary Law that deals with _(but not limited to)_ Customary Rules 20 thru 24 → and → 96 and 97.
> 
> Don't play innocent → don't even suggest → you don't understand that the border incidents for the past year demonstrate more than daily criminal activity.  You cannot launch incendiary devices and not understand that it constitutes indiscriminate attacks against the civilian community.  Nor can you ignore that the Arab Palestinian participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under various international conventions.
> 
> •  War Crimes: Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, and  killing of hostages, targeting of public or private property, wanton destruction justified by Arab Palestinity.
> 
> •  Crimes against humanity: Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.​There have been very few groups and organizations that have had a less of a connection to terrorism in the last half century then that of the Arab Palestinians that double as _Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters_.
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Chickenfeed, What else you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Great Palestinian Book Robbery (w/ Benny Brunner)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Great Book Robbery | Witness*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gazans are playing volleyball during the Great Return March.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are a very poor investigator.
> 
> Further, in the case of the Arab Palestinians, we are talking about a period of over seventy years.  Your entire position is based on the objective that the Arab Palestinian has the right to do any damn thing they want.  Target any civilian, groups of civilians or even uninvolved men, women and children.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically, what international laws are the Palestinians violating? (Not just a data dump.)
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have listed these over and over again.
> 
> Article 2 • International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, which parallels the Prosecutorial authority of Article 68, Fourth Geneva Convention, with parallels to Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938),
> 
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or againsta place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructurefacility:
> 
> (a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> (b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where suchdestruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss./...A/RES/52/164​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth inparagraph 1 of the present article.3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> (a) Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article;or
> 
> (b) Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the presentarticle; or
> 
> (c) In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall beintentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the groupor be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​
> Every single time that Arab Palestinians assault, or engage Israeli Civil Administration Officials or  Police, Security and Intelligence resources they with the intent to do harm to the Occupation Force, they are open to prosecution under the authority of Article 68 of the Geneva Convention.
> 
> •  Firing Rockets is a violation;
> •  Indiscriminate Fire is a violation;
> •  Assualt on any one of the officials, is a violation;
> •  Incendiary Devices is actually a violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Olympic Team, it was a violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the Commerical Bus _(Dalal al-Maghribi Coastal Road massacre)_ it was multiple violation;
> •  When the Arab Palestinians attacked the The Achille Lauro multiple violation;​
> And since you don't want a "data dump" you can see a list of illegal events Global Terrorism Database is a database of incidents of terrorism from 1970 to July 2017.  You can filter out listings pertaining to Hostile Arab Palestinian terrorist acts.
> 
> Additionally, there is Customary Law that deals with _(but not limited to)_ Customary Rules 20 thru 24 → and → 96 and 97.
> 
> Don't play innocent → don't even suggest → you don't understand that the border incidents for the past year demonstrate more than daily criminal activity.  You cannot launch incendiary devices and not understand that it constitutes indiscriminate attacks against the civilian community.  Nor can you ignore that the Arab Palestinian participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under various international conventions.
> 
> •  War Crimes: Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, and  killing of hostages, targeting of public or private property, wanton destruction justified by Arab Palestinity.
> 
> •  Crimes against humanity: Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.​There have been very few groups and organizations that have had a less of a connection to terrorism in the last half century then that of the Arab Palestinians that double as _Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters_.
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...






*"Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or againsta place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructurefacility: (a) With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or (b) With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where suchdestruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss./...A/RES/52/164*

*2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth inparagraph 1 of the present article.3.Any person also commits an offence if that person: (etc................)"*


here's how palestinians [hamass and abbas] interpet that:


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inside Story - Israel: Fighting an unwinnable war?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Gazans are playing volleyball during the Great Return March.



Abbas’ advisor: Islam’s religious war to destroy Israel has started - PMW Bulletins

IDF: Gazans hurl explosives, firebombs, burn Israeli flags, try to damage fence

Your point? How lame.  Keep posting


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this is a Madison Avenue Media Launch, that is opposed to various aspected of the Mainstream Media approach to news, and apposed to the influences _(power, politics, financial, big business, etc)_ that affects the actual presentation of news on the local scene, domestic regional, national, global regions, and worldwide levels as a matter of perspective. 



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

This sound bite is very smooth, presents it's perspective very well → and is a shared point of view by many around the world.  It is a topical backlash that is applicable around the world.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW

Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW
> 
> Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting
Click to expand...


The mother simply doesn't get that there was no criticism of anything specific about AIPAC,
but accusation against* "Jewish colleagues"* for conspiring against the American public,
because they might have family abroad.

They just don't see it only STARTS with the Jewish minority,
according to the intesectionality clique to which representative Omar belongs,, theres a clear hierarchy of ethnic and cultural identities, towards whom this blood libel would be instantly defined as banal racism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW
> 
> Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mother simply doesn't get that there was no criticism of anything specific about AIPAC,
> but accusation against* "Jewish colleagues"* for conspiring against the American public,
> because they might have family abroad.
> 
> According to the same clique of representative Omar, clearly theres a hierarchy of identities, towards whom this blood libel would be defined as banal racism.
Click to expand...

Ilhan Omar never mentioned Jews.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW
> 
> Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mother simply doesn't get that there was no criticism of anything specific about AIPAC,
> but accusation against* "Jewish colleagues"* for conspiring against the American public,
> because they might have family abroad.
> 
> According to the same clique of representative Omar, clearly theres a hierarchy of identities, towards whom this blood libel would be defined as banal racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ilhan Omar never mentioned Jews.
Click to expand...


Yeah, Omar only mentioned her problem with "Jewish colleagues".


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW
> 
> Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mother simply doesn't get that there was no criticism of anything specific about AIPAC,
> but accusation against* "Jewish colleagues"* for conspiring against the American public,
> because they might have family abroad.
> 
> According to the same clique of representative Omar, clearly theres a hierarchy of identities, towards whom this blood libel would be defined as banal racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ilhan Omar never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, only her problem with Jewish colleagues.
Click to expand...

Never mentioned them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW
> 
> Somehow I don't think this " Jewish Mother" would stand for this. I bet Ilian Omar does.  Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mother simply doesn't get that there was no criticism of anything specific about AIPAC,
> but accusation against* "Jewish colleagues"* for conspiring against the American public,
> because they might have family abroad.
> 
> According to the same clique of representative Omar, clearly theres a hierarchy of identities, towards whom this blood libel would be defined as banal racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ilhan Omar never mentioned Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, only her problem with Jewish colleagues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never mentioned them.
Click to expand...


Total denial, haven't seen that before.
All documented - Newly Elected Muslim Congresswomen Favor Eliminating Israel
How dare "Jewish colleagues" criticize her support for those who openly call for complete Arab domination at the expense of all other minorities in the region.

Now You'll do the usual duck dance...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farah Nabulsi chats with Bassem Tamimi *

**
**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*George Galloway: 'Solidarity with Palestine - From Nakba to Intifada'.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those old hags look pretty old to me but they're NOT 5,000 years old.  I wrote a book called "Hollywood and the Bible."  In all these movies, starring such stars as Gregory Peck, Rita Hayward, Yul Brynner, Gina Lollobrigida, Hedy Lamarr, Victor Mature, George C. Scott, Ava Gardener, Peter O'Toole, etc., the Land is called Israel, not Palestine.  Watch them yourself--movies like Samson and Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and Sheba, The Story of Ruth and all the New Testament films.  (Sometimes the land is called Judea in these movies.)  Ben-Hur, starring Charlton Heston, is coming to the Big Screen again to celebrate its 60th anniversary.  In this film, which celebrates the beginning of the Christian faith, the land in question is called Judea, NOT Palestine.  And you call yourself a Christian!
Click to expand...


Why is it that in every Bible film I've ever see, the Land in question is called Israel or Judea, but never Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those old hags look pretty old to me but they're NOT 5,000 years old.  I wrote a book called "Hollywood and the Bible."  In all these movies, starring such stars as Gregory Peck, Rita Hayward, Yul Brynner, Gina Lollobrigida, Hedy Lamarr, Victor Mature, George C. Scott, Ava Gardener, Peter O'Toole, etc., the Land is called Israel, not Palestine.  Watch them yourself--movies like Samson and Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and Sheba, The Story of Ruth and all the New Testament films.  (Sometimes the land is called Judea in these movies.)  Ben-Hur, starring Charlton Heston, is coming to the Big Screen again to celebrate its 60th anniversary.  In this film, which celebrates the beginning of the Christian faith, the land in question is called Judea, NOT Palestine.  And you call yourself a Christian!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it that in every Bible film I've ever see, the Land in question is called Israel or Judea, but never Palestine?
Click to expand...

I don't know. The maps in my Bible say Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Staging Palestine: Nicole Curby interviews playwright Samah Sabawi*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those old hags look pretty old to me but they're NOT 5,000 years old.  I wrote a book called "Hollywood and the Bible."  In all these movies, starring such stars as Gregory Peck, Rita Hayward, Yul Brynner, Gina Lollobrigida, Hedy Lamarr, Victor Mature, George C. Scott, Ava Gardener, Peter O'Toole, etc., the Land is called Israel, not Palestine.  Watch them yourself--movies like Samson and Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and Sheba, The Story of Ruth and all the New Testament films.  (Sometimes the land is called Judea in these movies.)  Ben-Hur, starring Charlton Heston, is coming to the Big Screen again to celebrate its 60th anniversary.  In this film, which celebrates the beginning of the Christian faith, the land in question is called Judea, NOT Palestine.  And you call yourself a Christian!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it that in every Bible film I've ever see, the Land in question is called Israel or Judea, but never Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The maps in my Bible say Palestine.
Click to expand...


But all the stories in the Old Testament (the Torah) say Israel, and all the stories in the New Testament say Judea.  And one time I heard someone on the TBN Christian cable network say this:  "The promise of giving the Land of Israel to the Jews in the Bible is stated more often than the promise of salvation--that's how important it is!"


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



While it's true that Christians enjoy some freedoms under the PA, that would all come crashing down if your heroes, the thugs from Hamas, ever took over in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Bernard Lewis and Leon Wieseltier vs. Edward Said and Christopher Hitchens*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While it's true that Christians enjoy some freedoms under the PA, that would all come crashing down if your heroes, the thugs from Hamas, ever took over in the West Bank.
Click to expand...

Interesting speculation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Nablus, 1938.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Nablus, 1938.



Probably the only city in the West Bank that doesn't have a Hebrew name.  (The Romans changed the name from the Hebrew Shechem.)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those old hags look pretty old to me but they're NOT 5,000 years old.  I wrote a book called "Hollywood and the Bible."  In all these movies, starring such stars as Gregory Peck, Rita Hayward, Yul Brynner, Gina Lollobrigida, Hedy Lamarr, Victor Mature, George C. Scott, Ava Gardener, Peter O'Toole, etc., the Land is called Israel, not Palestine.  Watch them yourself--movies like Samson and Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and Sheba, The Story of Ruth and all the New Testament films.  (Sometimes the land is called Judea in these movies.)  Ben-Hur, starring Charlton Heston, is coming to the Big Screen again to celebrate its 60th anniversary.  In this film, which celebrates the beginning of the Christian faith, the land in question is called Judea, NOT Palestine.  And you call yourself a Christian!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it that in every Bible film I've ever see, the Land in question is called Israel or Judea, but never Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. The maps in my Bible say Palestine.
Click to expand...



The maps in your Bible say PALESTINE?

Wow. Next they are going to be calling David the King of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza Rockets: How Israeli PR & US Media Reverse the Reality*

**
*Who hands out those talking points to all media outlets?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*AFP SYMPOSIUM 2016: SESSION ONE - Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

A line of little Arab children with their writing boards at madrasa, Nablus area. (Late 19th century)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The seaport of Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*peace for hebron (mural for peace ) by samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa "The Way Israel Exist In The World Is Ultimately Antithetical To Life And Liberty!"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

You need to get a new hobby.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

funniest picture ever
Pali with a smoke grenade stuck in his face


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*
> 
> **




"What I sought to explain in this chapter is: does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state, using, by the way, common Western legal and liberal principles, that the right to exist as a Jewish state translates in practice into a right to discriminate against Palestinians wherever they are ... simply because they are not Jewish...the most galling hypocrisy is that this demand is constantly made by liberal intellectuals in the United States who would be appalled if the same demands were made in the American context...imagine if people went out in the civil rights movement...to end segregation to gain human rights, equal rights and imagine if the response was...alright African-Americans want rights, let's create a state out of part of Mississippi and it will be the State of the Negroes and you will be a citizen of that state." 

What a bizarre analogy.  Its a true reversal of reality and a rejection of self-determination for Arabs in Palestine.  It frames the entire conflict as a civil rights movement where Arabs do not have civil rights anywhere, which is patently untrue.  And it entirely disregards the military actions taken by Arabs against Jews in Israel, trying to paint the Arabs as innocent victims with no agency in the conflict.  It is a deliberately constructed falsehood created specifically to draw black allies.

A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US.  Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico.  Imagine they won.  Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here we go; Israel does not have the Right to Exist. Those Hasidic Jews are working overtime !


----------



## Third Party

Palestine Today-I thought this was a magazine...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "What I sought to explain in this chapter is: does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state, using, by the way, common Western legal and liberal principles, that the right to exist as a Jewish state translates in practice into a right to discriminate against Palestinians wherever they are ... simply because they are not Jewish...the most galling hypocrisy is that this demand is constantly made by liberal intellectuals in the United States who would be appalled if the same demands were made in the American context...imagine if people went out in the civil rights movement...to end segregation to gain human rights, equal rights and imagine if the response was...alright African-Americans want rights, let's create a state out of part of Mississippi and it will be the State of the Negroes and you will be a citizen of that state."
> 
> What a bizarre analogy.  Its a true reversal of reality and a rejection of self-determination for Arabs in Palestine.  It frames the entire conflict as a civil rights movement where Arabs do not have civil rights anywhere, which is patently untrue.  And it entirely disregards the military actions taken by Arabs against Jews in Israel, trying to paint the Arabs as innocent victims with no agency in the conflict.  It is a deliberately constructed falsehood created specifically to draw black allies.
> 
> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US.  Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico.  Imagine they won.  Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.
Click to expand...


Having lived in Israel proper for awhile and experienced reality there, I would say that there is very little discrimination.  I have seen Arab doctors, nurses and university students.  Many Israeli Arabs, such as Mohammed Zoabi, even volunteer for the Army.  Israel is a tiny country, only a little bigger than Vatican City, built as a haven for Jews after 2,000 years of persecution, in their ancestral homeland.  (Many of my own relatives moved there after they were forced out of Poland, and they were denied visas to America.)  So you should really get over this obsession of yours.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "What I sought to explain in this chapter is: does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state, using, by the way, common Western legal and liberal principles, that the right to exist as a Jewish state translates in practice into a right to discriminate against Palestinians wherever they are ... simply because they are not Jewish...the most galling hypocrisy is that this demand is constantly made by liberal intellectuals in the United States who would be appalled if the same demands were made in the American context...imagine if people went out in the civil rights movement...to end segregation to gain human rights, equal rights and imagine if the response was...alright African-Americans want rights, let's create a state out of part of Mississippi and it will be the State of the Negroes and you will be a citizen of that state."
> 
> What a bizarre analogy.  Its a true reversal of reality and a rejection of self-determination for Arabs in Palestine.  It frames the entire conflict as a civil rights movement where Arabs do not have civil rights anywhere, which is patently untrue.  And it entirely disregards the military actions taken by Arabs against Jews in Israel, trying to paint the Arabs as innocent victims with no agency in the conflict.  It is a deliberately constructed falsehood created specifically to draw black allies.
> 
> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US.  Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico.  Imagine they won.  Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US. Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico. Imagine they won. Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.


OK, what if that did happen and I still had my house, still had my car, still had my job, still had my church, I could still go anyplace I wanted, still had a passport, etc.?

Then what would it matter to me?


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "What I sought to explain in this chapter is: does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state, using, by the way, common Western legal and liberal principles, that the right to exist as a Jewish state translates in practice into a right to discriminate against Palestinians wherever they are ... simply because they are not Jewish...the most galling hypocrisy is that this demand is constantly made by liberal intellectuals in the United States who would be appalled if the same demands were made in the American context...imagine if people went out in the civil rights movement...to end segregation to gain human rights, equal rights and imagine if the response was...alright African-Americans want rights, let's create a state out of part of Mississippi and it will be the State of the Negroes and you will be a citizen of that state."
> 
> What a bizarre analogy.  Its a true reversal of reality and a rejection of self-determination for Arabs in Palestine.  It frames the entire conflict as a civil rights movement where Arabs do not have civil rights anywhere, which is patently untrue.  And it entirely disregards the military actions taken by Arabs against Jews in Israel, trying to paint the Arabs as innocent victims with no agency in the conflict.  It is a deliberately constructed falsehood created specifically to draw black allies.
> 
> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US.  Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico.  Imagine they won.  Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Having lived in Israel proper for awhile and experienced reality there, I would say that there is very little discrimination.  I have seen Arab doctors, nurses and university students.  Many Israeli Arabs, such as Mohammed Zoabi, even volunteer for the Army.  Israel is a tiny country, only a little bigger than Vatican City, built as a haven for Jews after 2,000 years of persecution, in their ancestral homeland.  (Many of my own relatives moved there after they were forced out of Poland, and they were denied visas to America.)  So you should really get over this obsession of yours.
Click to expand...


I was able to visit Israel for a month and stayed in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City.  (Lucky, lucky me).  It seemed to me to be haven, and not only for Jews.  I'm sure there is discrimination (there is discrimination in Canada, and we are still the 3rd best country in the world to live in!).  But I agree that it is minimal and indeed the population is friendly and vibrant and truly one of the most beautiful people of all the places I've visited.  I had many lovely conversations and cups of strong coffee with people tracing their ancestry from all sorts of places.  It was a wonderful trip.  And I hope to visit again.  (G-d willing). 

And I assume you were talking about Tinmore's obsession?  Grin.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Battle For Justice In Palestine: Ali Abunimah & Barbara Ransby in Conversation*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "What I sought to explain in this chapter is: does Israel have the right to exist as a Jewish state, using, by the way, common Western legal and liberal principles, that the right to exist as a Jewish state translates in practice into a right to discriminate against Palestinians wherever they are ... simply because they are not Jewish...the most galling hypocrisy is that this demand is constantly made by liberal intellectuals in the United States who would be appalled if the same demands were made in the American context...imagine if people went out in the civil rights movement...to end segregation to gain human rights, equal rights and imagine if the response was...alright African-Americans want rights, let's create a state out of part of Mississippi and it will be the State of the Negroes and you will be a citizen of that state."
> 
> What a bizarre analogy.  Its a true reversal of reality and a rejection of self-determination for Arabs in Palestine.  It frames the entire conflict as a civil rights movement where Arabs do not have civil rights anywhere, which is patently untrue.  And it entirely disregards the military actions taken by Arabs against Jews in Israel, trying to paint the Arabs as innocent victims with no agency in the conflict.  It is a deliberately constructed falsehood created specifically to draw black allies.
> 
> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US.  Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico.  Imagine they won.  Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A proper analogy might examine a struggle for independence, self-determination and sovereignty for the Cherokee Nation in the US. Imagine is the Cherokee Nation declared independence and then was attacked by the US, Canada and Mexico. Imagine they won. Then imagine they were told that the very idea of an independent, sovereign Cherokee Nation discriminated against white people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, what if that did happen and I still had my house, still had my car, still had my job, still had my church, I could still go anyplace I wanted, still had a passport, etc.?
> 
> Then what would it matter to me?
Click to expand...



Well, for starters you would not be arguing what Ali is arguing and hopefully wouldn't be posting his stupid videos.


----------



## Shusha

And for seconds, you would acknowledge your own role and responsibility in the conflict and resulting war.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

We should remember that Israel is the only Jewish state in the entire world, with Jewish food, dress, national holidays, language, music, culture, etc.  It's the only place where Ethiopian Jews can go during a famine, or Soviet Jews after an empire breaks up, or Yemenite Jews after being driven out by Arabs, and be received with open arms.  Should "New Palestine" be carved out of the ancestral Jewish homeland with cities that have Hebrew names, it will be the 23rd nondescript Arab country with the same non-unique Arab food, dress, music, language, holidays and culture as 22 others.  So can't we at least share the land without continuously bringing up the past?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The American International school of Gaza *

**
**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/why was -independent palestine- never created in 1.aspx

   Thank you for the above.  I needed a laugh!  Where are those Hasidim when you need them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/why was -independent palestine- never created in 1.aspx
> 
> Thank you for the above.  I needed a laugh!  Where are those Hasidim when you need them?
Click to expand...

So you post Israel's premier propaganda site.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/why was -independent palestine- never created in 1.aspx
> 
> Thank you for the above.  I needed a laugh!  Where are those Hasidim when you need them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post Israel's premier propaganda site.
Click to expand...


   Don't let the facts get in the way.  Keep posting!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





  ISRAEL


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Do you think anyone watches these boring lectures?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think anyone watches these boring lectures?
Click to expand...

Certainly not those who refuse to learn anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

Just showing why what is coming...



 

...IS coming.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, Just so I understand your accusation...

Given that the State of Israel:

◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​


P F Tinmore said:


>


*(QUESTIONs)*

◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?

Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically... 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ests-on-gaza-border-pose-new-threat-1.6955309


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Just so I understand your accusation...
> 
> Given that the State of Israel:
> 
> ◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
> ✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> ✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
> ✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
> ◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
> ◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> ○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
> ○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTIONs)*
> 
> ◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
> ◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
> ◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?
> 
> Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Let's see if Tinmore will take a break from posting silly memes and boring lectures to answer these direct questions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Just so I understand your accusation...
> 
> Given that the State of Israel:
> 
> ◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
> ✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> ✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
> ✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
> ◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
> ◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> ○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
> ○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTIONs)*
> 
> ◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
> ◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
> ◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?
> 
> Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Well, I will start with one and perhaps add more later.

Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Just so I understand your accusation...
> 
> Given that the State of Israel:
> 
> ◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
> ✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> ✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
> ✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
> ◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
> ◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> ○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
> ○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTIONs)*
> 
> ◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
> ◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
> ◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?
> 
> Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add more later.
> 
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
Click to expand...



http://campus.zoa.org/wp-content/up...the-Rebirth-of-the-State-of-Israel-Final1.pdf

  The above are just a few and do not include anything prior to 1920.  There has always been Antisemitism in the Arab World 

   Israel's act of aggression?      Keep posting


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Just so I understand your accusation...
> 
> Given that the State of Israel:
> 
> ◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
> ✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> ✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
> ✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
> ◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
> ◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> ○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
> ○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTIONs)*
> 
> ◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
> ◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
> ◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?
> 
> Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add more later.
> 
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://campus.zoa.org/wp-content/up...the-Rebirth-of-the-State-of-Israel-Final1.pdf
> 
> The above are just a few and do not include anything prior to 1920.  There has always been Antisemitism in the Arab World
> 
> Israel's act of aggression?      Keep posting
Click to expand...

ZOA? Do you have a more neutral source?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, Just so I understand your accusation...
> 
> Given that the State of Israel:
> 
> ◈  Assumed Article 43 HR Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Established a Peace Treaty pertaining to the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt (respectively).
> ◈  Unilaterally withdrew forces from Gaza  Strip in 2005.
> ✦  The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine: Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)
> ✦  The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate:  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)​◈ Currently Maintains Article 42 and 43 HR Authority under the Oslo Accords for the purpose of ensuring the the inherent right of individual self-defense against armed attacks occurs currently in progress, and:
> ✦   Criminal Acts directed against the State of Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause:
> ◆  Death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population,
> ◆ to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do (or to abstain from doing) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> ○  Article 1 Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)
> ○  Article 68, Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTIONs)*
> 
> ◈  WHAT specific international laws are you accusing Israel of Violating?
> ◈  Under WHAT statue are you assigning Israel as a definition of a State Supporting Terrorism?
> ◈  Under WHAT consortium, coalition, or group are you alleging that have formally and internationally filed that held that →  Israel is a terrorist organization?
> 
> Asked so that each concern might be addressed specifically...
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add more later.
> 
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://campus.zoa.org/wp-content/up...the-Rebirth-of-the-State-of-Israel-Final1.pdf
> 
> The above are just a few and do not include anything prior to 1920.  There has always been Antisemitism in the Arab World
> 
> Israel's act of aggression?      Keep posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ZOA? Do you have a more neutral source?
Click to expand...


 You mean like your “. Neutral Sources?”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



...after missiles had been previously thrown at Israel, forcing Israel to retaliate.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

In Gaza, since 2000, 35% of Gazan lands were razed by Israeli occupiers to make `buffer zone`.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



  So bad, so Sad. 

Over 60 Palestinians wounded in Nakba Day protests, 9 fires along border


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*(BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT - BLUF)*

If there was an act of violence leading to the establishment of the Jewish National Home called the State of Israel, the violence attempting to combat foreign occupation and aggression by the Arab Palestinian, places such blame on the Arab Palestinian; both then and now.

*(POINTS OF CONSIDERATION)*

Now that is an interesting start.

•  Article 2(4) - Chapter I - Purpose and Principles, UN Charter *(1945)*

•  Article 34(1), Chapter II - Statues of International Court of Justice:  Only States may be parties in cases before the Court.

•  The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
*14 December 1974*.   All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state

•  The International Criminal Code concerning "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of Article 8 _bis_ on the Romes Statutes _(Inserted by Resolution RC/Res.6 of *11 June 2010*)_ to the International Criminal Court. ⟴

*Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*
*Nullum crimen sine lege*

1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute *unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place*, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court. 

2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted. 

3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute. ​
•  The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled *Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations* and refers the case back to the General Court.  Judgments in Cases C-599/14P and C-79/15P:  Court of Justice of the European Union • Luxembourg, 26 July 2017



P F Tinmore said:


> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add later.
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.


*(COMMENT)*

I can appreciate that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) consider ※ The Balfour Declaration, ※ The Palestine Mandate, ※ and everything that has been based on them, as either sound or valid. And much of the Palestinian Liberation Organization _(PLO) (sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated)_ does NOT recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 (II) on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.

The dilemma here is that the "rights in question" are NOT exclusive to one side or the other.  Both the HoAP and the Israeli has the very same rights. 

The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.

It is the view of the Arab League that they:

Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​
The conundrum here is that immediately following the surrender by the Ottoman Empire, and later the Turkish Republic, the Turkish sovereignty renounces all rights and title what became the territory under the control of the Allied Powers.  And the Allied Powers established a Mandate, under which the territory was governed.

[EXCERPT:  Article 68:  Fourth Geneva Convention]
•  *ARTICLE 68** [ Link ]* •
Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

 The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.
[/quote]​
*When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT - BLUF)*
> 
> If there was an act of violence leading to the establishment of the Jewish National Home called the State of Israel, the violence attempting to combat foreign occupation and aggression by the Arab Palestinian, places such blame on the Arab Palestinian; both then and now.
> 
> *(POINTS OF CONSIDERATION)*
> 
> Now that is an interesting start.
> 
> •  Article 2(4) - Chapter I - Purpose and Principles, UN Charter *(1945)*
> 
> •  Article 34(1), Chapter II - Statues of International Court of Justice:  Only States may be parties in cases before the Court.
> 
> •  The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*.   All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> •  The International Criminal Code concerning "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of Article 8 _bis_ on the Romes Statutes _(Inserted by Resolution RC/Res.6 of *11 June 2010*)_ to the International Criminal Court. ⟴
> 
> *Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute *unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place*, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute. ​
> •  The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled *Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations* and refers the case back to the General Court.  Judgments in Cases C-599/14P and C-79/15P:  Court of Justice of the European Union • Luxembourg, 26 July 2017
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add later.
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I can appreciate that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) consider ※ The Balfour Declaration, ※ The Palestine Mandate, ※ and everything that has been based on them, as either sound or valid. And much of the Palestinian Liberation Organization _(PLO) (sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated)_ does NOT recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 (II) on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.
> 
> The dilemma here is that the "rights in question" are NOT exclusive to one side or the other.  Both the HoAP and the Israeli has the very same rights.
> 
> The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.
> 
> It is the view of the Arab League that they:
> 
> Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​
> The conundrum here is that immediately following the surrender by the Ottoman Empire, and later the Turkish Republic, the Turkish sovereignty renounces all rights and title what became the territory under the control of the Allied Powers.  And the Allied Powers established a Mandate, under which the territory was governed.
> 
> [EXCERPT:  Article 68:  Fourth Geneva Convention]
> •  *ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]* •
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​
Click to expand...

​
*When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?*

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

They never have and never will


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT - BLUF)*
> 
> If there was an act of violence leading to the establishment of the Jewish National Home called the State of Israel, the violence attempting to combat foreign occupation and aggression by the Arab Palestinian, places such blame on the Arab Palestinian; both then and now.
> 
> *(POINTS OF CONSIDERATION)*
> 
> Now that is an interesting start.
> 
> •  Article 2(4) - Chapter I - Purpose and Principles, UN Charter *(1945)*
> 
> •  Article 34(1), Chapter II - Statues of International Court of Justice:  Only States may be parties in cases before the Court.
> 
> •  The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*.   All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> •  The International Criminal Code concerning "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of Article 8 _bis_ on the Romes Statutes _(Inserted by Resolution RC/Res.6 of *11 June 2010*)_ to the International Criminal Court. ⟴
> 
> *Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute *unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place*, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute. ​
> •  The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled *Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations* and refers the case back to the General Court.  Judgments in Cases C-599/14P and C-79/15P:  Court of Justice of the European Union • Luxembourg, 26 July 2017
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add later.
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I can appreciate that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) consider ※ The Balfour Declaration, ※ The Palestine Mandate, ※ and everything that has been based on them, as either sound or valid. And much of the Palestinian Liberation Organization _(PLO) (sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated)_ does NOT recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 (II) on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.
> 
> The dilemma here is that the "rights in question" are NOT exclusive to one side or the other.  Both the HoAP and the Israeli has the very same rights.
> 
> The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.
> 
> It is the view of the Arab League that they:
> 
> Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​
> The conundrum here is that immediately following the surrender by the Ottoman Empire, and later the Turkish Republic, the Turkish sovereignty renounces all rights and title what became the territory under the control of the Allied Powers.  And the Allied Powers established a Mandate, under which the territory was governed.
> 
> [EXCERPT:  Article 68:  Fourth Geneva Convention]
> •  *ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]* •
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​
Click to expand...

​
*When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?*

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> • The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state


Not true.

_Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/7D35E1F729DF491C85256EE700686136

To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Chapter I


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT - BLUF)*
> 
> If there was an act of violence leading to the establishment of the Jewish National Home called the State of Israel, the violence attempting to combat foreign occupation and aggression by the Arab Palestinian, places such blame on the Arab Palestinian; both then and now.
> 
> *(POINTS OF CONSIDERATION)*
> 
> Now that is an interesting start.
> 
> •  Article 2(4) - Chapter I - Purpose and Principles, UN Charter *(1945)*
> 
> •  Article 34(1), Chapter II - Statues of International Court of Justice:  Only States may be parties in cases before the Court.
> 
> •  The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*.   All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> •  The International Criminal Code concerning "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of Article 8 _bis_ on the Romes Statutes _(Inserted by Resolution RC/Res.6 of *11 June 2010*)_ to the International Criminal Court. ⟴
> 
> *Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute *unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place*, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute. ​
> •  The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled *Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations* and refers the case back to the General Court.  Judgments in Cases C-599/14P and C-79/15P:  Court of Justice of the European Union • Luxembourg, 26 July 2017
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add later.
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I can appreciate that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) consider ※ The Balfour Declaration, ※ The Palestine Mandate, ※ and everything that has been based on them, as either sound or valid. And much of the Palestinian Liberation Organization _(PLO) (sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated)_ does NOT recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 (II) on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.
> 
> The dilemma here is that the "rights in question" are NOT exclusive to one side or the other.  Both the HoAP and the Israeli has the very same rights.
> 
> The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.
> 
> It is the view of the Arab League that they:
> 
> Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​
> The conundrum here is that immediately following the surrender by the Ottoman Empire, and later the Turkish Republic, the Turkish sovereignty renounces all rights and title what became the territory under the control of the Allied Powers.  And the Allied Powers established a Mandate, under which the territory was governed.
> 
> [EXCERPT:  Article 68:  Fourth Geneva Convention]
> •  *ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]* •
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​
Click to expand...

​
*When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?*

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT - BLUF)*
> 
> If there was an act of violence leading to the establishment of the Jewish National Home called the State of Israel, the violence attempting to combat foreign occupation and aggression by the Arab Palestinian, places such blame on the Arab Palestinian; both then and now.
> 
> *(POINTS OF CONSIDERATION)*
> 
> Now that is an interesting start.
> 
> •  Article 2(4) - Chapter I - Purpose and Principles, UN Charter *(1945)*
> 
> •  Article 34(1), Chapter II - Statues of International Court of Justice:  Only States may be parties in cases before the Court.
> 
> •  The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*.   All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> •  The International Criminal Code concerning "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of Article 8 _bis_ on the Romes Statutes _(Inserted by Resolution RC/Res.6 of *11 June 2010*)_ to the International Criminal Court. ⟴
> 
> *Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*
> *Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 
> 1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute *unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place*, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
> 
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
> 
> 3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute. ​
> •  The Court of Justice declares that the General Court should not have annulled *Hamas’ retention on the European list of terrorist organizations* and refers the case back to the General Court.  Judgments in Cases C-599/14P and C-79/15P:  Court of Justice of the European Union • Luxembourg, 26 July 2017
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I will start with one and perhaps add later.
> Acts of aggression against Palestine in Israel's creation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I can appreciate that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) consider ※ The Balfour Declaration, ※ The Palestine Mandate, ※ and everything that has been based on them, as either sound or valid. And much of the Palestinian Liberation Organization _(PLO) (sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated)_ does NOT recognize the authority of the United Nations, its institutions, or its resolutions, including Resolution 181 (II) on partitioning the Land of Israel/Palestine.
> 
> The dilemma here is that the "rights in question" are NOT exclusive to one side or the other.  Both the HoAP and the Israeli has the very same rights.
> 
> The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.
> 
> It is the view of the Arab League that they:
> 
> Affirm the right of peoples to combat foreign occupation and aggression by whatever means, including armed struggle, in order to liberate their territories and secure their right to self-determination, and independence and to do so in such a manner as to preserve the territorial integrity of each Arab country, of the foregoing being in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and with the Organization's resolutions.​
> The conundrum here is that immediately following the surrender by the Ottoman Empire, and later the Turkish Republic, the Turkish sovereignty renounces all rights and title what became the territory under the control of the Allied Powers.  And the Allied Powers established a Mandate, under which the territory was governed.
> 
> [EXCERPT:  Article 68:  Fourth Geneva Convention]
> •  *ARTICLE 68 [ Link ]* •
> Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offenses, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66   of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  and 65  may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.​
Click to expand...

​
*When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?*

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> The inalienable rights self-determination without external interference, and to national independence and sovereignty; *and the right to establish its own independent sovereign State.*





RoccoR said:


> When did the Palestinians actually establish a functioning State?



You are contradicting yourself.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> _Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
Click to expand...




 “An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:


> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.* We could have said: well, you go back to the 1967 line. But I know the 1967 line, and it’s a rotten line. You couldn’t have a worse line for a permanent international boundary. It’s where the troops happened to be on a certain night in 1948. It’s got no relation to the needs of the situation.



Yes, there is more than "just because they conquered it."  The Arab Palestinian posed a direct threat then, just as it does now.  How many times has it been said in so many different ways; the Arab Palestinians pose a direct threat to the sovereignty.  And the borders need to be defendable.

But again, the general layman interpretation is not exactly what was conveyed.  This Resolution (*S/RES/242*) does not say what you think it says.  As I said, this is not enforceable on the face of your interpretation.

I can lead you to *the source*, but that does not mean you will understand the intent.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • The definition of "Aggression" did not become effective until the adoption of A/RES/3314 (XXIX)
> *14 December 1974*. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state
> 
> 
> 
> Not true.
> 
> _Emphasizing_ the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.* We could have said: well, you go back to the 1967 line. But I know the 1967 line, and it’s a rotten line. You couldn’t have a worse line for a permanent international boundary. It’s where the troops happened to be on a certain night in 1948. It’s got no relation to the needs of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, there is more than "just because they conquered it."  The Arab Palestinian posed a direct threat then, just as it does now.  How many times has it been said in so many different ways; the Arab Palestinians pose a direct threat to the sovereignty.  And the borders need to be defendable.
> 
> But again, the general layman interpretation is not exactly what was conveyed.  This Resolution (*S/RES/242*) does not say what you think it says.  As I said, this is not enforceable on the face of your interpretation.
> 
> I can lead you to *the source*, but that does not mean you will understand the intent.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about 1967. This principle applies from 1945 or before. The UN Charter incorporated already existing international law.

I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.*​*
*
Indeed, I was thinking about the land conquered in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Friends of Sabeel: Leila Al Marayati*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Her grandmother's village has been under Palestinian control for 25 years.  Her grandmother is not allowed to vote for her village council leadership nor for her federal government leadership.  Did she want to talk about that equality, justice and human dignity.  Of course, she doesn't.  

Also I can't find any evidence whatsoever that there is not a direct Palestinian road from Beit 'Ur al-Fauqa to Ramallah (and therefore a hospital) with no checkpoints.  She appears to be feeding us some BS.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You are attempting to scramble the answers such that confusing is injected to the discussion.


I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect, the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."



P F Tinmore said:


> I wasn't talking about 1967. This principle applies from 1945 or before. The UN Charter incorporated already existing international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I was thinking about the land conquered in 1948.
Click to expand...

*(FIRST COMMENT)*

→  The reference to "combat foreign occupation and aggression" by does not apply to the period between the handoff from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (July 1920) and the termination of the Mandatory Civil Administration (May 1948).  During that period, the UK maintained control over the territory in question.   The Arab Inhabitants had absolutely no control or sovereignty west of the Jordan River.  And the Arab Inhabitance rejected every opportunity by the Mandatory to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.

→  What does that mean?   There was no "invasion" of any kind relative to the perspective of the Arab Inhabitance.  They did not constitute an authority over territorial integrity or political independence of any state.  That means there was no Act of Aggression against the Arab Inhabitants.

*(SECOND COMMENT)*

Your insinuation of "land conquered in 1948" is totally baseless.  WHY?  Because no Arab territorial integrity or political independent state was violated or conquered.   It was all territory under Mandate or Trusteeship; depending on which side of the May terminator you are looking at.

*(THIRD COMMENT)*

The territorial disputes on the Gaza Strip arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through March 1976 were wiped clean by the Treaty.  And the territorial disputes on the West Bank arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through 1994 were wiped clean by the Treaty.   The international boundaries were established by their respective treaties.

*(FOURTH COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians do not recognize any documentation that does not support their position _(Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit)_.  The Arab Palestinians have refused to recognize the validity of the Balfour Declaration, The San Remo Convention, The Mandate for Palestine, and any partition recommendations.  Every confrontation since the termination of the Mandate _(Article 77 Trusteeship transistion, and the self-determinate creation of Israel)_ is directly related to the refusal of the Arab Palestinians rodent style hunt for power, wealth and their settlement against the Jewish people.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are attempting to scramble the answers such that confusing is injected to the discussion.
> 
> 
> I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect, the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about 1967. This principle applies from 1945 or before. The UN Charter incorporated already existing international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I was thinking about the land conquered in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(FIRST COMMENT)*
> 
> →  The reference to "combat foreign occupation and aggression" by does not apply to the period between the handoff from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (July 1920) and the termination of the Mandatory Civil Administration (May 1948).  During that period, the UK maintained control over the territory in question.   The Arab Inhabitants had absolutely no control or sovereignty west of the Jordan River.  And the Arab Inhabitance rejected every opportunity by the Mandatory to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> →  What does that mean?   There was no "invasion" of any kind relative to the perspective of the Arab Inhabitance.  They did not constitute an authority over territorial integrity or political independence of any state.  That means there was no Act of Aggression against the Arab Inhabitants.
> 
> *(SECOND COMMENT)*
> 
> Your insinuation of "land conquered in 1948" is totally baseless.  WHY?  Because no Arab territorial integrity or political independent state was violated or conquered.   It was all territory under Mandate or Trusteeship; depending on which side of the May terminator you are looking at.
> 
> *(THIRD COMMENT)*
> 
> The territorial disputes on the Gaza Strip arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through March 1976 were wiped clean by the Treaty.  And the territorial disputes on the West Bank arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through 1994 were wiped clean by the Treaty.   The international boundaries were established by their respective treaties.
> 
> *(FOURTH COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians do not recognize any documentation that does not support their position _(Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit)_.  The Arab Palestinians have refused to recognize the validity of the Balfour Declaration, The San Remo Convention, The Mandate for Palestine, and any partition recommendations.  Every confrontation since the termination of the Mandate _(Article 77 Trusteeship transistion, and the self-determinate creation of Israel)_ is directly related to the refusal of the Arab Palestinians rodent style hunt for power, wealth and their settlement against the Jewish people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.

You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant. The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.

Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are attempting to scramble the answers such that confusing is injected to the discussion.
> 
> 
> I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect, the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about 1967. This principle applies from 1945 or before. The UN Charter incorporated already existing international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I was thinking about the land conquered in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(FIRST COMMENT)*
> 
> →  The reference to "combat foreign occupation and aggression" by does not apply to the period between the handoff from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (July 1920) and the termination of the Mandatory Civil Administration (May 1948).  During that period, the UK maintained control over the territory in question.   The Arab Inhabitants had absolutely no control or sovereignty west of the Jordan River.  And the Arab Inhabitance rejected every opportunity by the Mandatory to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> →  What does that mean?   There was no "invasion" of any kind relative to the perspective of the Arab Inhabitance.  They did not constitute an authority over territorial integrity or political independence of any state.  That means there was no Act of Aggression against the Arab Inhabitants.
> 
> *(SECOND COMMENT)*
> 
> Your insinuation of "land conquered in 1948" is totally baseless.  WHY?  Because no Arab territorial integrity or political independent state was violated or conquered.   It was all territory under Mandate or Trusteeship; depending on which side of the May terminator you are looking at.
> 
> *(THIRD COMMENT)*
> 
> The territorial disputes on the Gaza Strip arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through March 1976 were wiped clean by the Treaty.  And the territorial disputes on the West Bank arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through 1994 were wiped clean by the Treaty.   The international boundaries were established by their respective treaties.
> 
> *(FOURTH COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians do not recognize any documentation that does not support their position _(Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit)_.  The Arab Palestinians have refused to recognize the validity of the Balfour Declaration, The San Remo Convention, The Mandate for Palestine, and any partition recommendations.  Every confrontation since the termination of the Mandate _(Article 77 Trusteeship transistion, and the self-determinate creation of Israel)_ is directly related to the refusal of the Arab Palestinians rodent style hunt for power, wealth and their settlement against the Jewish people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.
> 
> You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant. The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.
> 
> Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.
Click to expand...


While Rocco displays documents or else speaks of certain documents by name, you never display the documents to support your claims.  You only allude to these mysterious documents, which probably exist only in your head.  And you keep on speaking of 1948 only, completely ignoring the past 71 years as if they didn't happen at all, or as if time had stopped since then.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Sadly, that is an entirely FALSE assumption.  Just ask the HM King of Saudi Arabia who holds the rights of the people?



P F Tinmore said:


> If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.


*(COMMENT)*

POINT #1

This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  This is a concept only applies to the internal and domestic states.

"For the purpose of paragraph 1, “act of aggression” means the use of armed force *by a State* against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of * another State*,"​
*IF* you cannot read and understand the law on this one issue, or reject it entirely,
*THEN*  there is not much to talk about. 

But there was no “act of aggression” between the Jewish population attempting to establish a state, and the Arab Palestinians which were attempting to stop the self-determination effort.

And remember, the Arab Palestinians rejected the notion of participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.



P F Tinmore said:


> The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The political and territorial sovereignty of a "state" is an essential quality and character of being a "state."

Oddly enough, within the Arab League, there are two "absolute" monarchy:  Saudi Arabia and Oman.

Until 1992,  the King of Saudi Arabia was an absolute monarch.  In 1992 the King gave the people its  constitution; functional under sharia.  However, HM the King retains the position as head of state and authority over all levels of government, including what we call executive, legislative, and judicial powers.

The Sultan of Oman has supreme and absolute authority.​


P F Tinmore said:


> You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant.


*(COMMENT)*

POINT #2A

I did not say that at all _(it was OK to steal their stuff)_.  We are talking about different things here on a different level.

The establishment of "a state" is something entirely different than "their stuff."  The definition of a state is entirely different than "their stuff."​
POINT #2B

Your attempt to ridicule the law in this fashion by trying to use this non-existant "talking point" tag does not work.  No matter what the source of the truth, it remains a "truth."​


P F Tinmore said:


> Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.


*(COMMENT)*

POINT #3A

This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.​
POINT #3B

If anything you can say that the Arab states of Jordan and Egypt established the precident of territorial conquest.  They took the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And that was only resolved in 1994 and 1976. respectively.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sadly, that is an entirely FALSE assumption.  Just ask the HM King of Saudi Arabia who holds the rights of the people?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #1
> 
> This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  This is a concept only applies to the internal and domestic states.
> 
> "For the purpose of paragraph 1, “act of aggression” means the use of armed force *by a State* against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of * another State*,"​
> *IF* you cannot read and understand the law on this one issue, or reject it entirely,
> *THEN*  there is not much to talk about.
> 
> But there was no “act of aggression” between the Jewish population attempting to establish a state, and the Arab Palestinians which were attempting to stop the self-determination effort.
> 
> And remember, the Arab Palestinians rejected the notion of participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The political and territorial sovereignty of a "state" is an essential quality and character of being a "state."
> 
> Oddly enough, within the Arab League, there are two "absolute" monarchy:  Saudi Arabia and Oman.
> 
> Until 1992,  the King of Saudi Arabia was an absolute monarch.  In 1992 the King gave the people its  constitution; functional under sharia.  However, HM the King retains the position as head of state and authority over all levels of government, including what we call executive, legislative, and judicial powers.
> 
> The Sultan of Oman has supreme and absolute authority.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #2A
> 
> I did not say that at all _(it was OK to steal their stuff)_.  We are talking about different things here on a different level.
> 
> The establishment of "a state" is something entirely different than "their stuff."  The definition of a state is entirely different than "their stuff."​
> POINT #2B
> 
> Your attempt to ridicule the law in this fashion by trying to use this non-existant "talking point" tag does not work.  No matter what the source of the truth, it remains a "truth."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #3A
> 
> This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.​
> POINT #3B
> 
> If anything you can say that the Arab states of Jordan and Egypt established the precident of territorial conquest.  They took the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And that was only resolved in 1994 and 1976. respectively.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


What he will never admit or acknowledge is that the West Bank , Gaza , and E. Jerusalem were recognized as being parts of Jordan and Egypt by the International Community


----------



## Mindful

*Booming in “Concentration Camp” Gaza*
By
Aussie Dave
 - 
Welcome to Gaza, where the people are starving so much that…they need to work out due to eating too much and putting on weight (hat tip: Tommy).




One of the “inmates” (AP Photo/Hatem Moussa)
It’s past midnight, but a dozen Palestinians are still running and sweating at a gym in the Gaza Strip.

During Islam’s holiest month of Ramadan, Techno-Gym transforms into a late-night hot spot for young men *struggling to stay in shape*. In addition to self-discipline and prayer intended to bring adherents closer to God, the month is famed for its* lavish meals and heavy desserts* that follow a daylong fast.

“I come here during Ramadan to maintain the vitality of my body,” said Anas al-Najjar, a music teacher, on a break from a set of back-muscle exercises. “As I have been training for a while, it’s not good for the body to stop in Ramadan.”

On a recent night, pop music mingled with the clanging of dumbbells and metal weight plates as fitness enthusiasts grunted and panted. The gym’s black-and-yellow color scheme and bright blue lighting had a disorienting effect as the clock ticked into the early hours.

The Ramadan routine, with *high-calorie fast-breaking “iftar” buffets*, sugary staples and hours of sedentary screen time, is a headache for fitness trainers. A growing group of middle-class men in Gaza are preoccupied with the prospect of gaining weight.

A main culprit is the Ramadan dessert known as “qatayef” — fried pancakes stuffed with sweet cheese or nuts, soaked in homemade sugar syrup. A sliver of cheese qatayef contains some 350 calories. Fitness trainers acknowledge that it’s hard to resist after a day of deprivation.

—

Abu Karsh has supplemented his Ramadan workout plan with intensive cardio sessions for “those whose bodies gain weight fast,” scheduled in the late afternoon before the iftar meal.

With the gym’s hours extended until 2 a.m. for the holy month, some Palestinians come late at night to hone their muscles and work up a sweat.

And it must be difficult having all of those people working out at “Concentration Camp” Gaza’s only gym.

Oh, wait.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are attempting to scramble the answers such that confusing is injected to the discussion.
> 
> 
> I copied and quoted the actual law _(not a nonbinding resolution using inexact terminology)_ for you.  In effect, the resolution was written in "_politicalese_."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about 1967. This principle applies from 1945 or before. The UN Charter incorporated already existing international law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An Interview in which Lord Caradon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I defend the resolution as it stands. What it states, as you know, is first the general principle of inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. That means that you can’t justify holding onto territory *merely because you conquered it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I was thinking about the land conquered in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(FIRST COMMENT)*
> 
> →  The reference to "combat foreign occupation and aggression" by does not apply to the period between the handoff from the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (July 1920) and the termination of the Mandatory Civil Administration (May 1948).  During that period, the UK maintained control over the territory in question.   The Arab Inhabitants had absolutely no control or sovereignty west of the Jordan River.  And the Arab Inhabitance rejected every opportunity by the Mandatory to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> →  What does that mean?   There was no "invasion" of any kind relative to the perspective of the Arab Inhabitance.  They did not constitute an authority over territorial integrity or political independence of any state.  That means there was no Act of Aggression against the Arab Inhabitants.
> 
> *(SECOND COMMENT)*
> 
> Your insinuation of "land conquered in 1948" is totally baseless.  WHY?  Because no Arab territorial integrity or political independent state was violated or conquered.   It was all territory under Mandate or Trusteeship; depending on which side of the May terminator you are looking at.
> 
> *(THIRD COMMENT)*
> 
> The territorial disputes on the Gaza Strip arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through March 1976 were wiped clean by the Treaty.  And the territorial disputes on the West Bank arising from the 1967 Six-Day War and through 1994 were wiped clean by the Treaty.   The international boundaries were established by their respective treaties.
> 
> *(FOURTH COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians do not recognize any documentation that does not support their position _(Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit)_.  The Arab Palestinians have refused to recognize the validity of the Balfour Declaration, The San Remo Convention, The Mandate for Palestine, and any partition recommendations.  Every confrontation since the termination of the Mandate _(Article 77 Trusteeship transistion, and the self-determinate creation of Israel)_ is directly related to the refusal of the Arab Palestinians rodent style hunt for power, wealth and their settlement against the Jewish people.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.
> 
> You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant. The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.
> 
> Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.
Click to expand...



You're right; The land belonged ONLY to the Palestinians.  Keep telling yourself that !    

History of Israel - Wikipedia

Maybe your " friends" the Hasidic Jewish Community could help you


----------



## Mindful

^*Over the past decade, the gym business in the Gaza Strip has boomed.*

*Some 120 gyms, two-thirds of which are professionally equipped*, are scattered throughout the territory, according to Tareq Abu el-Jedyan of the Palestinian Bodybuilding and Fitness Federation. It’s a significant spike from Gaza’s pre-2000 gym count: a mere 10.

“Sports culture and awareness has gained online, allowing for more gyms to open,” Abu el-Jedyan said. “Today, things are also more professional than in the past … trainees get to know how to exercise right with the correct technique.”

The upscale Techno-Gym opened three years ago, *complete with a swimming pool, steam and sauna rooms and modern bodybuilding equipment imported from Italy.*

I have posted about this gym before here.

But don’t worry, this is the AP after all, and they have found a way to somehow work these inconvenient truths about Gaza in to the prevailing, misleading narrative.

The gym, which primarily caters to workers in banks, telecom companies and aid agencies who have the cash to spend, serves as a rare respite from the misery of life in the enclave, where unemployment surpasses 50%, tap water is undrinkable and electricity cuts are routine. The frequent cycles of bloody clashes with Israel have compounded daily struggles.

An Israeli-Egyptian blockade, imposed after the Hamas militant group seized power in 2007, and an intensifying political schism with the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority, has thrown Gaza’s economy into free fall, deepening poverty and worsening humanitarian conditions.

“As I live in Gaza under siege and pressures, such beautiful and neat gyms help us replace the pent-up energy with something good for our health,” said al-


Gyms (And Calories) Booming in 'Concentration Camp' Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Sadly, that is an entirely FALSE assumption.  Just ask the HM King of Saudi Arabia who holds the rights of the people?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the rights laid down in any document you will see that the rights belong to the people. (The normal inhabitants inside a defined territory.) Governments and states are not required.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #1
> 
> This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  This is a concept only applies to the internal and domestic states.
> 
> "For the purpose of paragraph 1, “act of aggression” means the use of armed force *by a State* against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of * another State*,"​
> *IF* you cannot read and understand the law on this one issue, or reject it entirely,
> *THEN*  there is not much to talk about.
> 
> But there was no “act of aggression” between the Jewish population attempting to establish a state, and the Arab Palestinians which were attempting to stop the self-determination effort.
> 
> And remember, the Arab Palestinians rejected the notion of participating in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people are the sovereigns in a territory. Sovereign governments and sovereign states are merely extensions of the people's sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The political and territorial sovereignty of a "state" is an essential quality and character of being a "state."
> 
> Oddly enough, within the Arab League, there are two "absolute" monarchy:  Saudi Arabia and Oman.
> 
> Until 1992,  the King of Saudi Arabia was an absolute monarch.  In 1992 the King gave the people its  constitution; functional under sharia.  However, HM the King retains the position as head of state and authority over all levels of government, including what we call executive, legislative, and judicial powers.
> 
> The Sultan of Oman has supreme and absolute authority.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that their was no Palestine or Palestinians because they never had an independent state. Therefore it was OK to steal their stuff. That is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #2A
> 
> I did not say that at all _(it was OK to steal their stuff)_.  We are talking about different things here on a different level.
> 
> The establishment of "a state" is something entirely different than "their stuff."  The definition of a state is entirely different than "their stuff."​
> POINT #2B
> 
> Your attempt to ridicule the law in this fashion by trying to use this non-existant "talking point" tag does not work.  No matter what the source of the truth, it remains a "truth."​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now back to Israel's illegal military conquest of Palestine in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #3A
> 
> This is a perfect example of how and why the conflict is perpetual.  Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.​
> POINT #3B
> 
> If anything you can say that the Arab states of Jordan and Egypt established the precident of territorial conquest.  They took the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And that was only resolved in 1994 and 1976. respectively.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.


Ridiculous. The Zionist plan from the beginning was to take over Palestine for themselves and create a Jewish state. They prepared all through the Mandate for this take over. When the opportunity arose, Israel rolled its military over Palestine attacking and removing the civilians from their homes. It was a piece of cake until the Arab armies entered Palestine.


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


>



Can you imagine?  It's not even a full 1%.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come on now.



P F Tinmore said:


> Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.


Ridiculous. The Zionist plan from the beginning was to take over Palestine for themselves and create a Jewish state. They prepared all through the Mandate for this take over. When the opportunity arose, Israel rolled its military over Palestine attacking and removing the civilians from their homes. It was a piece of cake until the Arab armies entered Palestine.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

In 1918, when Lord Somerset accepted the surrender of the Ottoman Empire, onborad the Battleship HMS Agamemnon, it was then that thedk. Allied Powers assumed the rights and title of several territories, including the territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh come on now.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their was no Jewish conquest of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous. The Zionist plan from the beginning was to take over Palestine for themselves and create a Jewish state. They prepared all through the Mandate for this take over. When the opportunity arose, Israel rolled its military over Palestine attacking and removing the civilians from their homes. It was a piece of cake until the Arab armies entered Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In 1918, when Lord Somerset accepted the surrender of the Ottoman Empire, onborad the Battleship HMS Agamemnon, it was then that thedk. Allied Powers assumed the rights and title of several territories, including the territory.

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
OK, so? The allied powers did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

What_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1918, when Lord Somerset accepted the surrender of the Ottoman Empire, onboard the Battleship HMS Agamemnon, it was then that the Allied Powers assumed the rights and title of several territories, including the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? The allied powers did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*



			
				ARTICLE I6 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
			
		

> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.


_I think I said this already in a recent posting._
*(COMMENT •  APOLOGY)*

You are  100% correct.  The *Allied Powers only received*:

•  all rights and title
•  over or respecting the territories
•  the future of these territories
•  being settled or to be settled by the parties​
The reason they did not use the word "sovereignty" because the responsibility was spread across all the Allied Powers that were party to the Treaty.  The meaning of "sovereignty" precludes such an arrangement _(you are either sovereign or not)_.  Sort of the difference between "joint custody and "sole custody."

You are right, there was no "free parking" listed.

Needless to say, the Arab Palestinian inhabitance were not awarded any territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1918, when Lord Somerset accepted the surrender of the Ottoman Empire, onboard the Battleship HMS Agamemnon, it was then that the Allied Powers assumed the rights and title of several territories, including the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? The allied powers did not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARTICLE I6 • Treaty of Lausanne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _I think I said this already in a recent posting._
> *(COMMENT •  APOLOGY)*
> 
> You are  100% correct.  The *Allied Powers only received*:
> 
> •  all rights and title
> •  over or respecting the territories
> •  the future of these territories
> •  being settled or to be settled by the parties​
> The reason they did not use the word "sovereignty" because the responsibility was spread across all the Allied Powers that were party to the Treaty.  The meaning of "sovereignty" precludes such an arrangement _(you are either sovereign or not)_.  Sort of the difference between "joint custody and "sole custody."
> 
> You are right, there was no "free parking" listed.
> 
> Needless to say, the Arab Palestinian inhabitance were not awarded any territory.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Needless to say, the Arab Palestinian inhabitance were not awarded any territory.


Do you have a link for that?

You don't make any sense.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

If I don't make any sense, then it is just because Article 16 does not make any sense.  Yet, it is the Article that all parties agreed upon.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say, the Arab Palestinian inhabitance were not awarded any territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> You don't make any sense.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I cannot understand what it is about your intellectual ability to read and understand Article 16.  It is not like there is insufficient evidence pertaining to "rights and title."  Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."

It is lucky for the Rule of Law world and Common Sense in which we live; that you are not a force behind the implementation of the law.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> If I don't make any sense, then it is just because Article 16 does not make any sense.  Yet, it is the Article that all parties agreed upon.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Needless to say, the Arab Palestinian inhabitance were not awarded any territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> You don't make any sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I cannot understand what it is about your intellectual ability to read and understand Article 16.  It is not like there is insufficient evidence pertaining to "rights and title."  Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."
> 
> It is lucky for the Rule of Law world and Common Sense in which we live; that you are not a force behind the implementation of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."


Sure there is. UN resolutions.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

What nonsense...



P F Tinmore said:


> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is. UN resolutions.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is absolutely NO UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  ----  any territory at all.  This is especially true of the Gaza Strip and the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank.  

I would very much like you to show me a UN Resolution on the Rights and Title to any territory.

PLEASE prove me WRONG*!*

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Ropey

It comes.







Hamas says they have successfully smuggled in a rocket launcher which can overwhelm the Iron Dome.

OK

Let's see how they deal with the low yield neutron dispersal tactical response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> What nonsense...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is. UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is absolutely NO UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  ----  any territory at all.  This is especially true of the Gaza Strip and the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank.
> 
> I would very much like you to show me a UN Resolution on the Rights and Title to any territory.
> 
> PLEASE prove me WRONG*!*
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,


_Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine,* including:
(_a_) The right to self-determination *without external interference;*
(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

_Reaffirms_ also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236 - Wikipedia

I don't see where you have a question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Diplomat Hanan Ashrawi on the U.S. “Peace Plan” & Israeli Political Crisis*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

So, your answer is:  You have nothing.


			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Sure there is. UN resolutions.





			
				RoccoR said:
			
		

> There is absolutely NO UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  ----  any territory at all.





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236


[/quote]
*(COMMENT)*

This is a non-binding 1974 vintage montra of the Arab Palestinian epiphany that ALL people have these rights.  They are in Article I - Chapter I - of the UN Charter.   These rights are not exclusive rights grant to just the Arab Palestinian.  And it certainly does not present the Arab Palestinians any territory.

You give us nothing.  Other than A/RES/181 (II), which was rejected in 1947, I repeat my need to see UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  →  any territory at all.   I will even entertain any international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law. 

_*But as it stands, you've given us nothing!*_

There is an interesting News Article that discusses the very same question:  *Is Palestine Really a Country? *
What makes this article a real intelectualgrabber is that it remarks:  "To be a "sovereign" state (i.e. an independent country), it's also important that the government answers to no other country, and that the territory and population are actually under the government's control."   This is a set of points that I have made over and over again....

To be a "sovereign" state
(i.e. an independent country),
it's also important that the government answers to no other country,
and that the territory and population are
actually under the government's control.​There is no question of this pertaining to Israel.  It's territorial integrity is very clear.  But do the Arab Palestinians have anything like that?  Yes, the Gaza Strip and _(arguably)_ Area "A." 

Other wise, what presents the Arab Palestinian at any time in the last 100 years, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

He's still confusing the RIGHT to self-determination, national independence and sovereignty with the ACTUALITY of it.  

Both Israel and Arab Palestine have the right to those things (imo), but only Israel has actualized it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> So, your answer is:  You have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nor is there any evidence as to the Arab Palestinians having some "rights and title."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is. UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely NO UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  ----  any territory at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is a non-binding 1974 vintage montra of the Arab Palestinian epiphany that ALL people have these rights.  They are in Article I - Chapter I - of the UN Charter.   These rights are not exclusive rights grant to just the Arab Palestinian.  And it certainly does not present the Arab Palestinians any territory.

You give us nothing.  Other than A/RES/181 (II), which was rejected in 1947, I repeat my need to see UN Resolution that dispenses the full "RIGHTS and TITLE" to any territory  →  any territory at all.   I will even entertain any international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law.

_*But as it stands, you've given us nothing!*_

There is an interesting News Article that discusses the very same question:  *Is Palestine Really a Country? *
What makes this article a real intelectualgrabber is that it remarks:  "To be a "sovereign" state (i.e. an independent country), it's also important that the government answers to no other country, and that the territory and population are actually under the government's control."   This is a set of points that I have made over and over again....

To be a "sovereign" state
(i.e. an independent country),
it's also important that the government answers to no other country,
and that the territory and population are
actually under the government's control.​There is no question of this pertaining to Israel.  It's territorial integrity is very clear.  But do the Arab Palestinians have anything like that?  Yes, the Gaza Strip and _(arguably)_ Area "A."

Other wise, what presents the Arab Palestinian at any time in the last 100 years, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.



When did Arab Palestine acquire territory?  /sarcasm


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did Arab Palestine acquire territory?  /sarcasm
Click to expand...

Stupid question.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did Arab Palestine acquire territory?  /sarcasm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid question.
Click to expand...


Funny how its is stupid question when I ask it and yet you repeat it ad nauseum.

So how about you answer it?  When and how did Arabs in Western Palestine acquire territory?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

As generally understood,

◈  *A/RES/67/19* Status of Palestine in the United Nations •

*◈  *29 November 2012 *–* United Nations General Assembly Resolution *A/RES/67/19*: Upgrading of Palestine to non-member observer state status in the United Nations •

◈  15 November 1988 - *A/43/827 • S/20278* Palestinian Declaration of Independence (1988) – The Palestinian National Council, the legislative body of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), in Algiers on 15 November 1988 unilaterally proclaimed the establishment of a new independent state called the "State of Palestine" •​


P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, actually that is incorrect.

But Israel was Territorial Power in 1967, well before the creation of HAMAS (1988) in the Gaza Strip.

✦  1967 June:  Six-Day War ends in favor of Israel.
◈  Israel occupies the West Bank concurrently with Jordanian Sovereignty.
◈  Israel occupies the Gaza Strip forceing the withdrawal of the Egyptian..Governorship​✦  1968 July:   Palestinian National Council publishes the Palestinian National Charter.
✦  1974 October:  PLO becomes sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
✦  1988 July:  Jordan cuts all ties with the West Bank.
✦  1988 July 1988:  Israel becomes the only state on the territory maintaining law and order.
✦  1988 Novemeber:  PLO Declares Independence​What is so very interesting about this timeline is that it shows that there was only one state government on the territory at one point.  There was no Sovereignty anywhere _(and trusteeship anywhere)_ laying claim to the territory.  The previous sovereignty _(Jordan)_ abandon the territory.

*(QUESTION)*

Is a territory with no past sovereign laying claim, and no current sovereign, open for control acquisition by a new state in place of the others?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As generally understood,
> 
> ◈  *A/RES/67/19* Status of Palestine in the United Nations •
> 
> *◈  *29 November 2012 *–* United Nations General Assembly Resolution *A/RES/67/19*: Upgrading of Palestine to non-member observer state status in the United Nations •
> 
> ◈  15 November 1988 - *A/43/827 • S/20278* Palestinian Declaration of Independence (1988) – The Palestinian National Council, the legislative body of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), in Algiers on 15 November 1988 unilaterally proclaimed the establishment of a new independent state called the "State of Palestine" •​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is a state under illegal external interference.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, actually that is incorrect.
> 
> But Israel was Territorial Power in 1967, well before the creation of HAMAS (1988) in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ✦  1967 June:  Six-Day War ends in favor of Israel.
> ◈  Israel occupies the West Bank concurrently with Jordanian Sovereignty.
> ◈  Israel occupies the Gaza Strip forceing the withdrawal of the Egyptian..Governorship​✦  1968 July:   Palestinian National Council publishes the Palestinian National Charter.
> ✦  1974 October:  PLO becomes sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.
> ✦  1988 July:  Jordan cuts all ties with the West Bank.
> ✦  1988 July 1988:  Israel becomes the only state on the territory maintaining law and order.
> ✦  1988 Novemeber:  PLO Declares Independence​What is so very interesting about this timeline is that it shows that there was only one state government on the territory at one point.  There was no Sovereignty anywhere _(and trusteeship anywhere)_ laying claim to the territory.  The previous sovereignty _(Jordan)_ abandon the territory.
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Is a territory with no past sovereign laying claim, and no current sovereign, open for control acquisition by a new state in place of the others?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are way past when I was talking about.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Ahhhhhhh*!*
OK, I'm a bit confused about your time-window of discussion.

√  What is your window?



P F Tinmore said:


> You are way past when I was talking about.


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under mandate.  

Even before 1923, the Arab population of Palestine declined to participate in the British Government's desired to establish self-government in Palestine, in what they called "stages."  



			
				The Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:
			
		

> In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:*  A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 •



That would be the window between 1922 → 1974 (in the case of Egypt) and 1922 → 1994 (in the case of Jordan).  Since the 1948 War for Independence was resolved by Treaty; inside the two windows (supra), Just what ground and what timeframe are your working...Be specific, so as to give you the best answer possible? 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Ahhhhhhh*!*
> OK, I'm a bit confused about your time-window of discussion.
> 
> √  What is your window?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are way past when I was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under mandate.
> 
> Even before 1923, the Arab population of Palestine declined to participate in the British Government's desired to establish self-government in Palestine, in what they called "stages."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Political History of Palestine under British Administration said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In practice, it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.
> *SOURCE:*  A/AC.14/8  UK History of Administration  2 October 1947 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be the window between 1922 → 1974 (in the case of Egypt) and 1922 → 1994 (in the case of Jordan).  Since the 1948 War for Independence was resolved by Treaty; inside the two windows (supra), Just what ground and what timeframe are your working...Be specific, so as to give you the best answer possible?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under mandate.


Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Balderdash*!*

Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.  They WERE NOT operating as a colonial power.  It was a civil administration much like that used in all the adjacent states _(except Saudi Arabia)_.  Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all went through the process as what was customary for that period in history.  Oddly enough, all those countries worked through the process.  All established new states through the steps to attain self-governing institutions, all, that is, except the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And both of those smaller subdivisions were under Arab Occupation (1948-1967) (not British and not Israeli).



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The discredited and dispicable practice of using the Israelis as a reason for a lack of economic and financial development and markets is bogus.  If the Arab Palestinians had not demonstrated the increased level of violence, the security countermeasures, police patrols and checkpoints, as well as barier installations would not have been necessary.  This is just another case of the Arab Palestinians lack of cooperation and acceptance of the consequences.  For decades, the recurring theme by the Arab Palestinians if to demonstrate a lack of cooperation and indiscriminate assualts against Jewish People _(men women and children)_ then once the aggrevated assualt is responded in kind+, the Arab Palestinian, in childlike care, go running to the International Community and complain about a tightening of countermeasure accross the board.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





 Imhttps://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/why%20was%20-


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Balderdash*!*
> 
> Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.  They WERE NOT operating as a colonial power.  It was a civil administration much like that used in all the adjacent states _(except Saudi Arabia)_.  Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all went through the process as what was customary for that period in history.  Oddly enough, all those countries worked through the process.  All established new states through the steps to attain self-governing institutions, all, that is, except the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And both of those smaller subdivisions were under Arab Occupation (1948-1967) (not British and not Israeli).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The discredited and dispicable practice of using the Israelis as a reason for a lack of economic and financial development and markets is bogus.  If the Arab Palestinians had not demonstrated the increased level of violence, the security countermeasures, police patrols and checkpoints, as well as barier installations would not have been necessary.  This is just another case of the Arab Palestinians lack of cooperation and acceptance of the consequences.  For decades, the recurring theme by the Arab Palestinians if to demonstrate a lack of cooperation and indiscriminate assualts against Jewish People _(men women and children)_ then once the aggrevated assualt is responded in kind+, the Arab Palestinian, in childlike care, go running to the International Community and complain about a tightening of countermeasure accross the board.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Hogwash_!_

For Britain, changing from a military occupation to a Mandate was simply a name change. They maintained their military forces.

*ARTICLE 22.*

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations​
What part of "rendering of administrative advice and assistance" and "tutelage" requires military forces?

The Permanent Court of International Justice and an International Court of Arbitration established by the Council of the League of Nations handed down rulings in 1925 which determined that *Palestine and Transjordan were newly created successor states *of the Ottoman Empire as defined by international law.

History of Jordan - Wikipedia​
Palestine was no longer an occupied enemy territory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You have all kinds of miss interpretations here, the least of which is a  misunderstanding of the meaning and intent of *Judgement #5 Permanent Court of International Justice*.

A decide upon a judgment concerning what fair Remedy is due for The Government of the Greek Republic; if any at all.

It was not a Political question as to the nature of what it means to be the Government of Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> For Britain, changing from a military occupation to a Mandate was simply a name change. They maintained their military forces.
> *✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧- *Truncated* -✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧*​Palestine was no longer an occupied enemy territory.


*(COMMENT)*

POINT #1

This is another misrepresentation of the facts.  Yes, the Government of Palestine was the successor Government, but the Government of Palestine was just the Framework under which the UK created to effectively handle the establishment of the Jewish National Home and the self-governing institutions under whichthe Arab Palestinians rejected participation.



			
				Page #7 • First Paragraph of the Court's Delivered Judgment • Judgment #5 • Permanent Court of International Justice said:
			
		

> "part of the Government of Palestine and consequcntly also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, in its capacity as Mandatory Power for Palestine, since the year 1921"


The idea that the Judgement supports some claim that the Arab had some political rights over the territory is nothing more than misinformation and intentional fraud → passed-on so many times, by Arab Palestinian Supporting claimants that should actually know better, the  original source is not quite identifiable.  Never the less, it works because no one is going to take the time to pull the truth out of the record and sifted Court Decisions.​
POINT #2

To read Article 22 of the League of Nations Covanantis not necessarily the same as to comprehendent it.  The Covenant is an agreement between the parties that engaged in it - the Allied Powers of the Great War (WWI).   The Arab Palestinians [Arab Higher Committee (AHC)] were heavily influenced by men like General, Ottoman Army _(Retired after surrender of Ottoman Empire) _*Pasha Ahmed Hilmi • *and former Ottoman Army Officer _(separated after surrender of Ottoman Empire)_ * Amin al-Husseini. * Pasha Hilmi, deported early on to the Seychelles Islands, for activities inconsistant with an peaceful endeavors.  He was later pardon by the High Commissioner the same way as Amin al-Husseini, in connection with the incitement and encouragement of anti-Jewish riots.

The need for a military contingent in support of the British Administration was under the authority and necessity of Article 43 of the Hague Regulation of 1907.  And that contingent was there to deal with the many Enemy held prisioners of war turned anti-Jewish activist, and rioters. ​
OK, now I call a flag on the play here.  All this (and more) has been divulged and rehashed many many times.

POINT #3

Article 22 makes a number of operational guidelines:

•  Advanced nations for tutlage.
•  Rendering of tutlage until such time as they are able to stand alone.​
The Arab Palestinians have not ever demonstrated that they are able to stand alone, not in any decade since the 1920s.  Even today, with the millions and millions of donor dollars received, the are still unable to get a productive and functional government off the ground.

Further, the Ramallah Government is directly involved in providing support to criminal activists involved in Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgent, Radicalized incitement, and Asymmetric behaviors of a criminal nature, and providing payment to such entities for thier service.​
*( Ω ∑ )*

Now once again, I remind you that the League of Nations Covenant establishes no promise and incurred no obligation to take any action in the furtherance of the various causes enumerated by the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  The Arab Palestinian is simply not parties to the covenant.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Balderdash*!*
> 
> Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.  They WERE NOT operating as a colonial power.  It was a civil administration much like that used in all the adjacent states _(except Saudi Arabia)_.  Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all went through the process as what was customary for that period in history.  Oddly enough, all those countries worked through the process.  All established new states through the steps to attain self-governing institutions, all, that is, except the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And both of those smaller subdivisions were under Arab Occupation (1948-1967) (not British and not Israeli).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The discredited and dispicable practice of using the Israelis as a reason for a lack of economic and financial development and markets is bogus.  If the Arab Palestinians had not demonstrated the increased level of violence, the security countermeasures, police patrols and checkpoints, as well as barier installations would not have been necessary.  This is just another case of the Arab Palestinians lack of cooperation and acceptance of the consequences.  For decades, the recurring theme by the Arab Palestinians if to demonstrate a lack of cooperation and indiscriminate assualts against Jewish People _(men women and children)_ then once the aggrevated assualt is responded in kind+, the Arab Palestinian, in childlike care, go running to the International Community and complain about a tightening of countermeasure accross the board.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hogwash_!_
> 
> For Britain, changing from a military occupation to a Mandate was simply a name change. They maintained their military forces.
> 
> *ARTICLE 22.*
> 
> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
> 
> The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.
> 
> The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.
> 
> Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.
> 
> Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations​
> What part of "rendering of administrative advice and assistance" and "tutelage" requires military forces?
> 
> The Permanent Court of International Justice and an International Court of Arbitration established by the Council of the League of Nations handed down rulings in 1925 which determined that *Palestine and Transjordan were newly created successor states *of the Ottoman Empire as defined by international law.
> 
> History of Jordan - Wikipedia​
> Palestine was no longer an occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Balderdash*!*
> 
> Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.  They WERE NOT operating as a colonial power.  It was a civil administration much like that used in all the adjacent states _(except Saudi Arabia)_.  Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all went through the process as what was customary for that period in history.  Oddly enough, all those countries worked through the process.  All established new states through the steps to attain self-governing institutions, all, that is, except the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And both of those smaller subdivisions were under Arab Occupation (1948-1967) (not British and not Israeli).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The discredited and dispicable practice of using the Israelis as a reason for a lack of economic and financial development and markets is bogus.  If the Arab Palestinians had not demonstrated the increased level of violence, the security countermeasures, police patrols and checkpoints, as well as barier installations would not have been necessary.  This is just another case of the Arab Palestinians lack of cooperation and acceptance of the consequences.  For decades, the recurring theme by the Arab Palestinians if to demonstrate a lack of cooperation and indiscriminate assualts against Jewish People _(men women and children)_ then once the aggrevated assualt is responded in kind+, the Arab Palestinian, in childlike care, go running to the International Community and complain about a tightening of countermeasure accross the board.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hogwash_!_
> 
> For Britain, changing from a military occupation to a Mandate was simply a name change. They maintained their military forces.
> 
> *ARTICLE 22.*
> 
> To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.
> 
> The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.
> 
> The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.
> 
> Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.
> 
> Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations​
> What part of "rendering of administrative advice and assistance" and "tutelage" requires military forces?
> 
> The Permanent Court of International Justice and an International Court of Arbitration established by the Council of the League of Nations handed down rulings in 1925 which determined that *Palestine and Transjordan were newly created successor states *of the Ottoman Empire as defined by international law.
> 
> History of Jordan - Wikipedia​
> Palestine was no longer an occupied enemy territory.
Click to expand...



Jordan gained control of the West Bank and ANNEXING it with it's Palestinian Population?    

Black September - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Answer:  When the "occupied" are given numerous opportunities to come to a peaceful resolution and improve their situation, and they keep on refusing and playing the victims all the time.

And why did you put that picture of Jews coming back to their homeland?  Yes, my mother's family came to Israel when they were forced out of Poland and had nowhere else to go.  They were denied visas to America at that time.  Btw, America is also a land of immigrants.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where are the Hasidic Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

Thank the Lord for this woman.  What better for growing world support for Israel.  Need more like her.



P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation court takes 13-year-old Palestinian child to the Israeli occupation court and the child screams I want to see my mother


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Palestinian response to Jared Kushner’s racist remarks*
Opinion Haidar Eid on June 5, 2019

A Palestinian response to Jared Kushner’s racist remarks


----------



## MJB12741

Yet another example of "Palestine Today."

"Last Friday, the PLO’s Committee for Interaction with Israeli Society sent a delegation of Palestinian officials to Jaffa for a Ramadan break-fast meal, called “iftar,” with a group of Israelis that included former Meretz party lawmaker David Zucker.


*In response, Palestinians expressed their outrage on social media, condemning the meal in “occupied Jaffa,” reported the Jerusalem Post.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian reflections on Israel’s hysterical attack on BDS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Don’t forget the Hasidic Jews.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


*Question - Quora*
*"Free Palestine" or as it's being chanted in full during every Jihadi rally: "from the River the Sea, Palestine will be Free"*[1]* - is the wish of Palestinian Arabs and their supporters to transform the area between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, another Arab state (**number 23**) by eliminating the only Jewish state, and either exterminate all the current Jewish inhabitants of Israel, or reduce them to a status of **Dhimmis** in according with **Islam**.*

Answer your question? If Israel is serious about peace why is their goal Israel's destruction?  There will not be a response


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,

WoW, here is that very same Map Set we talked about last Month; *Posting #13*, RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians..   



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

But I don't want to get into the presentation of misinformation, or the motive for disinformation.  I don' think that there is even any benefit by rehashing the timeline of accountability and the corresponding consequences for various actions leading up to any significant and particular event set.

What might be very appropriate is to talk about the backlash and fallout resulting in the presentation of misinformation and disinformation.  The more people know just how flawed the Map Set is, the more people will gradually taint the other pro-Arab Palestinian presentations.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*EYEWITNESS PALESTINE: MOVING TO THE BRINK*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> WoW, here is that very same Map Set we talked about last Month; *Posting #13*, RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians..
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But I don't want to get into the presentation of misinformation, or the motive for disinformation.  I don' think that there is even any benefit by rehashing the timeline of accountability and the corresponding consequences for various actions leading up to any significant and particular event set.
> 
> What might be very appropriate is to talk about the backlash and fallout resulting in the presentation of misinformation and disinformation.  The more people know just how flawed the Map Set is, the more people will gradually taint the other pro-Arab Palestinian presentations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I too find the maps to be misleading.

The first map is labeled "Jewish land" and "Palestinian land." Private property ownership does not remove that land from the country. It is all still Palestinian land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Balderdash*!*
> 
> Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.  They WERE NOT operating as a colonial power.  It was a civil administration much like that used in all the adjacent states _(except Saudi Arabia)_.  Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all went through the process as what was customary for that period in history.  Oddly enough, all those countries worked through the process.  All established new states through the steps to attain self-governing institutions, all, that is, except the Arabs of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  And both of those smaller subdivisions were under Arab Occupation (1948-1967) (not British and not Israeli).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot be talking about the territory to which the Palestine Order in Council applied (1922 to 1948), because that Palestine (ie Government of Palestine) was a territory under the mandate.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, my point is that Palestine has been under foreign military occupation since before its inception and has continued unabated until today. You continuously slime the Palestinians for not accomplishing this or that while they have a gun in their face. The Palestinians cannot accomplish anything until it is decolonized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The discredited and dispicable practice of using the Israelis as a reason for a lack of economic and financial development and markets is bogus.  If the Arab Palestinians had not demonstrated the increased level of violence, the security countermeasures, police patrols and checkpoints, as well as barier installations would not have been necessary.  This is just another case of the Arab Palestinians lack of cooperation and acceptance of the consequences.  For decades, the recurring theme by the Arab Palestinians if to demonstrate a lack of cooperation and indiscriminate assualts against Jewish People _(men women and children)_ then once the aggrevated assualt is responded in kind+, the Arab Palestinian, in childlike care, go running to the International Community and complain about a tightening of countermeasure accross the board.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Between 1922 and 1948 the territory in question was under the Administration of the UK.


So what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have all kinds of miss interpretations here, the least of which is a  misunderstanding of the meaning and intent of *Judgement #5 Permanent Court of International Justice*.
> 
> A decide upon a judgment concerning what fair Remedy is due for The Government of the Greek Republic; if any at all.
> 
> It was not a Political question as to the nature of what it means to be the Government of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> For Britain, changing from a military occupation to a Mandate was simply a name change. They maintained their military forces.
> *✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧- *Truncated* -✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧-✧*​Palestine was no longer an occupied enemy territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> POINT #1
> 
> This is another misrepresentation of the facts.  Yes, the Government of Palestine was the successor Government, but the Government of Palestine was just the Framework under which the UK created to effectively handle the establishment of the Jewish National Home and the self-governing institutions under whichthe Arab Palestinians rejected participation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Page #7 • First Paragraph of the Court's Delivered Judgment • Judgment #5 • Permanent Court of International Justice said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "part of the Government of Palestine and consequcntly also on the part of His Britannic Majesty's Government, in its capacity as Mandatory Power for Palestine, since the year 1921"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The idea that the Judgement supports some claim that the Arab had some political rights over the territory is nothing more than misinformation and intentional fraud → passed-on so many times, by Arab Palestinian Supporting claimants that should actually know better, the  original source is not quite identifiable.  Never the less, it works because no one is going to take the time to pull the truth out of the record and sifted Court Decisions.​
> POINT #2
> 
> To read Article 22 of the League of Nations Covanantis not necessarily the same as to comprehendent it.  The Covenant is an agreement between the parties that engaged in it - the Allied Powers of the Great War (WWI).   The Arab Palestinians [Arab Higher Committee (AHC)] were heavily influenced by men like General, Ottoman Army _(Retired after surrender of Ottoman Empire) _*Pasha Ahmed Hilmi • *and former Ottoman Army Officer _(separated after surrender of Ottoman Empire)_ * Amin al-Husseini. * Pasha Hilmi, deported early on to the Seychelles Islands, for activities inconsistant with an peaceful endeavors.  He was later pardon by the High Commissioner the same way as Amin al-Husseini, in connection with the incitement and encouragement of anti-Jewish riots.
> 
> The need for a military contingent in support of the British Administration was under the authority and necessity of Article 43 of the Hague Regulation of 1907.  And that contingent was there to deal with the many Enemy held prisioners of war turned anti-Jewish activist, and rioters. ​
> OK, now I call a flag on the play here.  All this (and more) has been divulged and rehashed many many times.
> 
> POINT #3
> 
> Article 22 makes a number of operational guidelines:
> 
> •  Advanced nations for tutlage.
> •  Rendering of tutlage until such time as they are able to stand alone.​
> The Arab Palestinians have not ever demonstrated that they are able to stand alone, not in any decade since the 1920s.  Even today, with the millions and millions of donor dollars received, the are still unable to get a productive and functional government off the ground.
> 
> Further, the Ramallah Government is directly involved in providing support to criminal activists involved in Jihadist, Fedayeen, Insurgent, Radicalized incitement, and Asymmetric behaviors of a criminal nature, and providing payment to such entities for thier service.​
> *( Ω ∑ )*
> 
> Now once again, I remind you that the League of Nations Covenant establishes no promise and incurred no obligation to take any action in the furtherance of the various causes enumerated by the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  The Arab Palestinian is simply not parties to the covenant.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians have not ever demonstrated that they are able to stand alone, not in any decade since the 1920s.


So? How can you stand alone with a gun in your face?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, again, the Arab Palestinian's once again engage in the disreputable practice of blaming  Army and security forces for their lack of Arab Palestinian unimaginativeness, idleness. inactivity, indifference. and lethargy in any way in the attempt to engage in the establishment of self-governing Institutions.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not ever demonstrated that they are able to stand alone, not in any decade since the 1920s.
> 
> 
> 
> So? How can you stand alone with a gun in your face?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians resisted every attempt made by the High Commissioner to get them involved in self-governing processes.  But acting very immaturely, the Arab Palestinians refused to play well with others and eventually, when it came time to recognize a fully functional self-determinate people → the Arab Palestinians not only lost their seat in the back of the bus → • → they were not even on the bus to self-determination.  And Arab Palestinians did not know how to get on the road to that destiny. 

It took the Arab Palestinians another 20 years after the end of hostilities, just to get their name back in the game.  

It was not a gun in the face the kept them down, it was a case of a cultural epidemic political down syndrome.  and in another 20 years since then, both a domestic political problem _(who runs the government)_ but they're still so dependent on crutches, the rats on the ship seem to be scavenging all the can get _(66% increase in salary)_ before fore the country capsizes. 

If there was a gun in their face, no doubt it came from the own Holster practicing to shoot themselves in the head. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, again, the Arab Palestinian's once again engage in the disreputable practice of blaming  Army and security forces for their lack of Arab Palestinian unimaginativeness, idleness. inactivity, indifference. and lethargy in any way in the attempt to engage in the establishment of self-governing Institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have not ever demonstrated that they are able to stand alone, not in any decade since the 1920s.
> 
> 
> 
> So? How can you stand alone with a gun in your face?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians resisted every attempt made by the High Commissioner to get them involved in self-governing processes.  But acting very immaturely, the Arab Palestinians refused to play well with others and eventually, when it came time to recognize a fully functional self-determinate people → the Arab Palestinians not only lost their seat in the back of the bus → • → they were not even on the bus to self-determination.  And Arab Palestinians did not know how to get on the road to that destiny.
> 
> It took the Arab Palestinians another 20 years after the end of hostilities, just to get their name back in the game.
> 
> It was not a gun in the face the kept them down, it was a case of a cultural epidemic political down syndrome.  and in another 20 years since then, both a domestic political problem _(who runs the government)_ but they're still so dependent on crutches, the rats on the ship seem to be scavenging all the can get _(66% increase in salary)_ before fore the country capsizes.
> 
> If there was a gun in their face, no doubt it came from the own Holster practicing to shoot themselves in the head.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thanks, Rocco, but I have already heard all of Israel's BS talking points.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh for heaven's sake.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

There is from time to time, a case of *suicide by cop.   In the application here, it* is a *suicide* method in which a suicidal Arab Palestinian deliberately behaves in a threatening manner, with intent to provoke a lethal response.

If the Arab Palestinians on the playground intentionally picks a fight with the bigger and older kids, they are going to get their ass kicked.

The Good Samaritan in reverse. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here we go again; Israel doesn’t have the Right to Exist.,,,,, Keep posting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


>


Oh now I get it.  That Zionist soldier is crushing the guts out of that innocent Palestinians abdomen.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I guess you don't see the political humor in this segment splicing.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Dramatic Humor, yes that's something special.

So, if we asked the writers of West Wing to turn the segments around to a Map of 1949 (or even 1987), to a time when there was no State of Palestine, maybe that would be just as humorous. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>







it's a country now.  Lot's of tourism too.....they have good snacks 







........... and 

 places to go, 

  . . .and things to do. 






on the other side....what's-his-face, 

 - bad influence on "his people."  The Palestinians.



how many rocket smuggling tunnels does the guy oversee to completion ?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Just ask those Hasidic Jews; they agree with you


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leila Farsakh: Mandatory Palestine prior to 1939 - Opposition to British policy and Zionist project*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




PA rejects Olmert's offer to withdraw from 93% of West Bank

Ever hear of the " All or Nothing Mentality?"   The Palestinians got what they deserve; mothing

Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia

 Just take the word Jordanian out and put Palestinian in; Having total control of all their Religious Sites forbidding Jews access to them.  E. Jerusalem will never be under  Palestinian control


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PA rejects Olmert's offer to withdraw from 93% of West Bank
> 
> Ever hear of the " All or Nothing Mentality?"   The Palestinians got what they deserve; mothing
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> Just take the word Jordanian out and put Palestinian in; Having total control of all their Religious Sites forbidding Jews access to them.  E. Jerusalem will never be under  Palestinian control
Click to expand...


I agree. It is funny that the Palestinians will never have control of E. Jerusalem. Keep posting.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*First Writing Since - Suheir Hammad (September 11, 2001 poem)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"While Waiting for Death" by Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Hank Hanegraaff: A Gospel Response to Christian Zionism*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Conversation with Salam Fayyad and Noura Erakat*

**


----------



## Ropey

Palestinians announce ‘popular uprising’ against Trump peace plan






Good, never stand between a foe and their suicide.

A wise man knows that ...

... as rock and a hard place are both headstones.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Wow.  Tinmore, you posted a good video, rich with nuance and acceptance.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Ultra-Orthodox & Anti-Zionist | My Jewish Learning



The Jewish code of law teaches us that a Jew is to be loyal to any ruler he finds himself under during this period of Jewish exile. The Torah, the Bible, teaches us that G-d gave the Holy Land to the Jewish people. They were there for two periods, over four hundred years, with their Holy Temple, in which they served G-d, and they were exiled because they sinned to G-d, Who stipulated that the giving of the land to the Jewish people was stipulated with the adherence to G-d’s will.  When this stipulation was forfeited, the land was taken away. One of the principles of the faith teaches us that G-d will return the land to the Jewish people through His messiah in_His good time_. Any attempt to accelerate this redemption would bring disastrous consequences.



Here we go again...… The desperate posting out of ignorance and stupidity,   The poster would like people to jump to the conclusion that the Jewish people have no religious claim to the land. However, that is not the reason why some Orthodox and Hasidic Jews oppose the State of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab | Shaping a Different US Policy Toward Palestinians: What Would It Take?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Bereshiti, Granot, Tuti...
Israeli produce by Jewish farmers in the Galillee and Judea.

Are You going to boycott the store now, or just throw the owner off of a rooftop?


----------



## rylah

*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address - We will raise the banners
of the Caliphate over Rome and the White House*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AyeCantSeeYou

P F Tinmore said:


>



*What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AyeCantSeeYou said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
Click to expand...


 This is what he always does; Post mindless pictures.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Thank you for posting this ! Many have stated that unless you believe in their Religion ( they use the word “ faith”) you won’t stop hate. They obviously do not believe in Freedom of Religion
   They also state that even if there is a final “ peace agreement “ the hate will never stop because “ this is our land”.   Common sense would suggest that with that Hate comes violence. The Hasidic Jews would agree. Keep posting!!


----------



## rylah

I'm sure our chief infidel spokesman,
Tinnie is going to send an angry letter to his handlers in the Caliphate...


----------



## P F Tinmore

AyeCantSeeYou said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
Click to expand...

There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:

There is no Palestine.
There are no Palestinians.
Palestinians are all Hamas.
Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
Palestinians are all violent.
The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.

Thank you for your concern.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> AyeCantSeeYou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:
> 
> There is no Palestine.
> There are no Palestinians.
> Palestinians are all Hamas.
> Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
> Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
> Palestinians are all violent.
> The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.
> 
> Thank you for your concern.
Click to expand...


And You do this by evading any discussion,
with tons of known fakes and unsourced imagery in every thread?

Pathetic trolling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AyeCantSeeYou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:
> 
> There is no Palestine.
> There are no Palestinians.
> Palestinians are all Hamas.
> Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
> Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
> Palestinians are all violent.
> The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.
> 
> Thank you for your concern.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And You do this by evading any discussion,
> with tons of known fakes and unsourced imagery in every thread?
> 
> Pathetic.
Click to expand...

And you people post tons of unsubstantiated slime. Questions are ducked.

What is your point?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AyeCantSeeYou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:
> 
> There is no Palestine.
> There are no Palestinians.
> Palestinians are all Hamas.
> Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
> Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
> Palestinians are all violent.
> The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.
> 
> Thank you for your concern.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And You do this by evading any discussion,
> with tons of known fakes and unsourced imagery in every thread?
> 
> Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you people post tons of unsubstantiated slime. Questions are ducked.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...

Calm down, for someone who got warned for trolling the forum, You could consider instead of manipulating threads, to be sincere, actually address the discussions and include sources.

Instead of trolling, try keeping some minimal intellectual integrity on this forum.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> AyeCantSeeYou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:
> 
> There is no Palestine.
> There are no Palestinians.
> Palestinians are all Hamas.
> Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
> Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
> Palestinians are all violent.
> The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.
> 
> Thank you for your concern.
Click to expand...


Similar to yours like “ There is no Israel?”
 Inferring that the Jewish People have no Religious rights or interests in that area of the ME? 
 Thank you for your “ concern “.


----------



## AyeCantSeeYou

P F Tinmore said:


> AyeCantSeeYou said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What does this have to do with the thread? You need to discuss the topic. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are several "Brand Israel" threads on this forum. They are there just to toot Israel's horn. This thread is to counter Israel's propaganda like:
> 
> There is no Palestine.
> There are no Palestinians.
> Palestinians are all Hamas.
> Palestinians are too incompetent to do anything they just hold their hand out for aid.
> Palestinians don't do anything to improve their lot.
> Palestinians are all violent.
> The photos, videos, and articles posted are to counter Israel's lies. They show Palestine in a more accurate light. Of course, anyone can open anything up for discussion.
> 
> Thank you for your concern.
Click to expand...


USMB Rules and Guidelines

*"Zone 2":* All other forums not specified as Zone 1 or Zone 3: This will apply to the vast majority of the board.: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. *Each post must contain enough specific thread topic content to advance the discussion*, in addition to any personal flame or snark. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.
*If you cannot or will not discuss what the thread subject is about, then stay out of it. You can start your own thread instead of trying to troll/disrupt others. Consider this your last friendly warning about it. *


----------



## P F Tinmore

*NYU DC Discussion: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict--How can it be solved?*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Normally, I think your mass pictorial contributions to this thread is "without context" and useless.  But, every once in a while, you publish a nugget and a jewel that makes some sense in the discussion.

This Avraham Burg _(associated with the Jewish Agency, onetime Speaker of the Knesset, and once the Interim President of Israel)_ and Dr James Zogby _(associated with Arab American Institute, columnist, and lecturer)_ discuss the views _(not all the view but some common views)_ without coming to blows → without a shouting match.



P F Tinmore said:


> NYU DC Discussion: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict--How can it be solved?


*(COMMENT)*

Of course, Dr Zogby holds a view on the perception of the economy in the territories; but it is important to listen with an open mind.  This is a discussion that opens-up fuel for thought.

Worth your time, if you are interested in understanding some views and perceptions.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Basil Mahshi with his French wife, Alice, in front of their house in Baq'a, Jerusalem, 1930's.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Heard this BS a thousand times. All talk, no action.

*Israel/Palestine: Extremists on the Rise, Risk of War Looms - Security Council Briefing*

**


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Normally, I think your mass pictorial contributions to this thread is "without context" and useless.  But, every once in a while, you publish a nugget and a jewel that makes some sense in the discussion.
> 
> This Avraham Burg _(associated with the Jewish Agency, onetime Speaker of the Knesset, and once the Interim President of Israel)_ and Dr James Zogby _(associated with Arab American Institute, columnist, and lecturer)_ discuss the views _(not all the view but some common views)_ without coming to blows → without a shouting match.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> NYU DC Discussion: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict--How can it be solved?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, Dr Zogby holds a view on the perception of the economy in the territories; but it is important to listen with an open mind.  This is a discussion that opens-up fuel for thought.
> 
> Worth your time, if you are interested in understanding some views and perceptions.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Do You really see the generation represented in the discussion solve anything or move anywhere?
The discussion is of good culture, but unfortunately all I hear is polished outdated lexicon that is intended more for the west academia. The same framework, mindset that has kept the situation stagnant for the last 30-40 years, perpetrated by the same detached and declining political elite on both sides that have led us both so far.

Neither Burg nor Zogby represent the majority view of their sides.
Though I can agree with one thing they agree - with regards to the US, both sides have progressed like in a reverse mirror image manner. Arab political base moves to the west and declines home, while Jewish political base strongly grows home and declines in the west.
Same with demographic trends.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Heard this BS a thousand times. All talk, no action.
> 
> *Israel/Palestine: Extremists on the Rise, Risk of War Looms - Security Council Briefing*
> 
> **



It's the UN, they're only good at pushing hot air to cover for their own bs.
Doesn't the organization consist of a Muslim majority?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heard this BS a thousand times. All talk, no action.
> 
> *Israel/Palestine: Extremists on the Rise, Risk of War Looms - Security Council Briefing*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the UN, they're only good at pushing hot air to cover for their own bs.
> Doesn't the organization consist of a Muslim majority?
Click to expand...

If that was the deciding factor, the problem would have been resolved years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Representative Rashida Tlaib Unveils Bold New Policy For America's Poor | The Last Word | MSNBC*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

IOF destroys homes, structures in Ras al-Ahmar hamlet







TUBAS, (PIC)

The Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Wednesday morning destroyed dozens of agricultural structures and equipment as well as several tents and scores of water tanks in Ras al-Ahmar hamlet, east of Tubas city in the West Bank.


For his part, local activist Aref Daraghmeh told the PIC that the IOF wreaked havoc on the hamlet, destroying tents, crude barns, solar energy equipment and dozens of water tanks belonging to local residents.

  Read more at  
IOF destroys homes, structures in Ras al-Ahmar hamlet
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rouzan al-Najjar: Humanitarian work icon






KHAN YOUNIS, (PIC)

One year after her death the Palestinian medic Rouzan al-Najjar has become an international icon and symbol of humanitarian work, and a witness to the brutality of the Israeli occupation.

 Rouzan was shot dead on 1 June 2018 by an Israeli sniper while she was trying to save an injured youth near the border fence east of Khan Younis city, in the southern area of the Gaza Strip.

The killing of the volunteer medic has sparked anger locally and internationally, further exposing Israel's crimes against innocent people.

  Read more at 
Rouzan al-Najjar: Humanitarian work icon
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army*

A global influence campaign funded by the Israeli government had a $1.1 million budget last year, a document obtained by The Electronic Intifada shows.

Act.IL says it has offices in three countries and an online army of more than 15,000.

In its annual report, from January, Act.IL says its goal is to “influence foreign publics” and “battle” BDS – the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement for Palestinian rights.

Through its app, Act.IL issues “missions” to this troll army in exchange for “cool prizes” and scholarships.

The app directs comments towards news websites in support of Israeli wars and racism, while attacking Palestinians and solidarity campaigners.

The leaked report claims Act.IL’s app completes 1,580 such missions every week.

Inside Israel's million dollar troll army


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army*
> 
> A global influence campaign funded by the Israeli government had a $1.1 million budget last year, a document obtained by The Electronic Intifada shows.
> 
> Act.IL says it has offices in three countries and an online army of more than 15,000.
> 
> In its annual report, from January, Act.IL says its goal is to “influence foreign publics” and “battle” BDS – the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement for Palestinian rights.
> 
> Through its app, Act.IL issues “missions” to this troll army in exchange for “cool prizes” and scholarships.
> 
> The app directs comments towards news websites in support of Israeli wars and racism, while attacking Palestinians and solidarity campaigners.
> 
> The leaked report claims Act.IL’s app completes 1,580 such missions every week.
> 
> Inside Israel's million dollar troll army



What is the combined annual budget of Electronic Intifada and BDS?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army*
> 
> A global influence campaign funded by the Israeli government had a $1.1 million budget last year, a document obtained by The Electronic Intifada shows.
> 
> Act.IL says it has offices in three countries and an online army of more than 15,000.
> 
> In its annual report, from January, Act.IL says its goal is to “influence foreign publics” and “battle” BDS – the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement for Palestinian rights.
> 
> Through its app, Act.IL issues “missions” to this troll army in exchange for “cool prizes” and scholarships.
> 
> The app directs comments towards news websites in support of Israeli wars and racism, while attacking Palestinians and solidarity campaigners.
> 
> The leaked report claims Act.IL’s app completes 1,580 such missions every week.
> 
> Inside Israel's million dollar troll army



How much are you getting paid for spending so many hours on this Board, posting your nonsense?  No one would do that for free.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

_The Electronic Intifada_ is _(itself)_ an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.  It is not a news media outlet _(profit-making)_ entity or a going concern.

I simply do not understand  what the outrage is...



P F Tinmore said:


> *Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army*
> 
> Inside Israel's million dollar troll army


*(COMMENT)*

All the major powers _(either on the international scale - or - the regional scale)_ have mass media connections that are either directly controlled by the government, or strictly controlled by the government.  In the case like the People's Republic of China (PRC), and the Russian Federation (RF), there are both kinds of outlets _(relative to print, broadcast free-space, and communications networks)_.  The US has such multiple and full spectrum endeavors _[Arab America Television (AATV), US Arab | The Arab Voice in America, Middle Eastern America-TV & Radio]_.  And who can forget _The Voice of America (VOA)_? *[RHETORICAL]* 

The battle over the Internet and airwaves is not new, nor exclusive to the Israelis.  The Information Warfare (IW) and Cyber Warfare (CW) games have been around even before the Romans devised other "means of getting the message out, like reading out and posting notices or decrees in the squares of cities, and erecting statues, monuments, triumphal arches etc with inscriptions on them."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Inside Israel’s million dollar troll army*
> 
> A global influence campaign funded by the Israeli government had a $1.1 million budget last year, a document obtained by The Electronic Intifada shows.
> 
> Act.IL says it has offices in three countries and an online army of more than 15,000.
> 
> In its annual report, from January, Act.IL says its goal is to “influence foreign publics” and “battle” BDS – the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement for Palestinian rights.
> 
> Through its app, Act.IL issues “missions” to this troll army in exchange for “cool prizes” and scholarships.
> 
> The app directs comments towards news websites in support of Israeli wars and racism, while attacking Palestinians and solidarity campaigners.
> 
> The leaked report claims Act.IL’s app completes 1,580 such missions every week.
> 
> Inside Israel's million dollar troll army
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much are you getting paid for spending so many hours on this Board, posting your nonsense?  No one would do that for free.
Click to expand...


He can’t just post pictures anymore.


----------



## P F Tinmore

In the Old City of occupied #Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli occupation forces on Wednesday demolished a Palestinian home, walls and fences in Yatta town, south of al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Tuesday morning destroyed a well and uprooted olive trees belonging to Palestinians in Umm al-Kibash area in the northern Jordan Valley.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian young man suffered a rubber bullet injury when Israeli soldiers attacked citizens during demolitions on Tuesday in Bir Una area of Beit Jala, west of Bethlehem in the West Bank.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.



How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.
Click to expand...

Palestinian injured in IOF demolition campaign west of Bethlehem

There, happy?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian journalist, writer, and mother Lama Khater has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 13 months in jail and fined 4,000 shekels. Khater was kidnapped by the Israeli occupation forces during an overnight raid on her home about a year ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian woman in a carpentry workshop in Salfit, West Bank.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian journalist, writer, and mother Lama Khater has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 13 months in jail and fined 4,000 shekels. Khater was kidnapped by the Israeli occupation forces during an overnight raid on her home about a year ago.



I don't think we are getting the full story here. What offense did she commit in order to get jailed and fined?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian injured in IOF demolition campaign west of Bethlehem
> 
> There, happy?
Click to expand...


"Palestinian Information Center"?  I'm sure that's a very reliable and unbiased source.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian journalist, writer, and mother Lama Khater has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 13 months in jail and fined 4,000 shekels. Khater was kidnapped by the Israeli occupation forces during an overnight raid on her home about a year ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we are getting the full story here. What offense did she commit in order to get jailed and fined?
Click to expand...

I believe she posted something on Facebook that Israel did not like.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian injured in IOF demolition campaign west of Bethlehem
> 
> There, happy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Palestinian Information Center"?  I'm sure that's a very reliable and unbiased source.
Click to expand...

Probably better than your source: israelibullshit.il


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.
Click to expand...


They aren't accurate.  This is an archive photo used in many such accusations and stories.  It certainly isn't a photo from Tuesday.  

Arabs plant olive trees in order to pretend that land which is NOT theirs suddenly becomes "private Palestinian land".  They take advantage of old Ottoman land laws (still in effect in a complex combination of domestic Israeli law, Ottoman law and Jordanian law) to prevent Israeli sovereignty.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian journalist, writer, and mother Lama Khater has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 13 months in jail and fined 4,000 shekels. Khater was kidnapped by the Israeli occupation forces during an overnight raid on her home about a year ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we are getting the full story here. What offense did she commit in order to get jailed and fined?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe she posted something on Facebook that Israel did not like.
Click to expand...


She was arrested for incitement after she wrote an op-ed for a women's magazine accusing Israel of deliberately starving the people of Gaza.  And for a couple of tweets with various other accusations.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian woman in a carpentry workshop in Salfit, West Bank.




She needs to review the safety precautions for operating a bandsaw.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian journalist, writer, and mother Lama Khater has been sentenced by an Israeli court to 13 months in jail and fined 4,000 shekels. Khater was kidnapped by the Israeli occupation forces during an overnight raid on her home about a year ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we are getting the full story here. What offense did she commit in order to get jailed and fined?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe she posted something on Facebook that Israel did not like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She was arrested for incitement after she wrote an op-ed for a women's magazine accusing Israel of deliberately starving the people of Gaza.  And for a couple of tweets with various other accusations.
Click to expand...

Indeed, there ain't no free speech in the "democracy" of Israel.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers on Tuesday uprooted hundreds of Palestinian-owned olive trees and destroyed four water wells in Tammoun town, south of Tubas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know that your descriptions of these pictures are accurate?  You need to cite your sources.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinian injured in IOF demolition campaign west of Bethlehem
> 
> There, happy?
Click to expand...

Do you have any legitimate sources?

Referencing a propaganda hate site designed for those with an IQ under80 doesn't cut it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.



I've been wondering the same thing for years.  He claims to be neither Jewish or Arab, but an American of Scandinavian descent, I think.


----------



## José

Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this.​



Tinmore opposes the state of Israel for the same reason Rabbi Joshua Heschel, seen here marching with Martin Luther King, opposed Jim Crow's America.

Because people of good conscience find racist states despicable.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

ForeverYoung436 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been wondering the same thing for years.  He claims to be neither Jewish or Arab, but an American of Scandinavian descent, I think.
Click to expand...


So he is just an antisemitic asshole. In that case debating him is pointless. Thank you.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

José said:


> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this.​
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore opposes the state of Israel for the same reason Rabbi Joshua Heschel, seen here marching with Martin Luther King, opposed Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Because people of good conscience find racist states despicable.




Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??



First:

Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.

Second:

Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.

He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.

You, on the other hand, seem to be doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

José said:


> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Second:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.
> 
> He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.
> 
> You, on the other hand, seem to doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.
Click to expand...


   He Doesn’t believe the Jewish people should have a homeland? Link, please ( There will not be one)


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Second:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.
> 
> He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.
> 
> You, on the other hand, seem to be doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.
Click to expand...


I'm willing to bet that you have never been to Israel.  If you had ever been there, you'd know there was no apartheid in Israel proper.  The West Bank and Gaza are more complex issues, and cannot really be compared to South Africa.  There are issues concerning security, religion, trouble-makers like Iran, etc.  It's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but many ppl in the world are focused only on Israel to the exclusion of the rest of the world.  That seems to me to smack of anti-Semitism.


----------



## member

ForeverYoung436 said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Second:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.
> 
> He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.
> 
> You, on the other hand, seem to be doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet that you have never been to Israel.  If you had ever been there, you'd know there was no apartheid in Israel proper.
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Second:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.
> 
> He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.
> 
> You, on the other hand, seem to be doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet that you have never been to Israel.  If you had ever been there, you'd know there was no apartheid in Israel proper.  The West Bank and Gaza are more complex issues, and cannot really be compared to South Africa.  There are issues concerning security, religion, trouble-makers like Iran, etc.  It's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but many ppl in the world are focused only on Israel to the exclusion of the rest of the world.  That seems to me to smack of anti-Semitism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> , and cannot really be compared to South Africa.  There are issues concerning security, religion, trouble-makers like Iran, etc.  It's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but many ppl in the world are focused only on Israel to the exclusion of the rest of the world.  That seems to me to smack of anti-Semitism.
Click to expand...









 *"...The West Bank and Gaza are more complex issues..."*

you mean because of the:





terrorists ?







 ...and abbass and his friends at the united nations? 



even these 2 don't 'recognize' terrorists in any palestinian areas...

including the folks that build 'underground tunnels" to smuggle rockets and weapons.....and 

 whatnot...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Destruction of a site at the Khan Yunis port during overnight Israeli airstrikes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation police arrested the director of construction at the Islamic Awqaf Eng.Bassam Hallaq and another employee from the courtyards of Al Aqsa mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Author: Rana Shubair


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘#Israel’ has been following a demolition policy targeting everything owned by Palestinians, to force them leave their properties and allow illegal Jewish settlers to replace them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Two deaths and one big lie*

The killing of math teacher
Yaqoub Abu al-Qiyan during an early 2017 raid on a Palestinian village was in many respects a typical act of violence by Israel’s colonization project. A Palestinian was left dead, others injured and homes were destroyed – starting with those belonging to Abu al-Qiyan’s family – to make way for a Jewish settlement.

There are unique aspects to his case – he was killed in Israel, not in the occupied West Bank, for one. And thanks to the UK-based research group Forensic Architecture, a moment-by-moment breakdown of the events leading up to Abu al-Qiyan’s death and the state cover-up that followed has been made publicly available.

When Yaqoub Abu al-Qiyan was killed in a Bedouin village slated for demolition on 18 January 2017, Benjamin Netanyahu immediately alleged he had carried out a “terror attack.”

But residents of Umm al-Hiran, the Naqab desert village in southern Israel stormed by hundreds of officers that day, as well as activists present, swiftly challenged the government’s narrative of events. They said that Abu al-Qiyan was killed without provocation.

Video recorded by Keren Manor, a member of the Activestills collective whose work has previously appeared on The Electronic Intifada, proved critical to unraveling Israel’s narrative.

Analysis from Forensic Architecture indicated that Abu al-Qiyan, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, was driving slowly and his vehicle only accelerated after he was shot at by police, suggesting he had lost control of his car.

Two deaths and one big lie


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation police arrested the director of construction at the Islamic Awqaf Eng.Bassam Hallaq and another employee from the courtyards of Al Aqsa mosque.



While Jews are severely restricted from entering the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, and cannot even pray there, the Muslims are busy building their fifth or sixth mosque on the Temple Mount.  These mosques are often used as places to hide weapons, and to incite riots and violence against Jews.  The Muslims have already been warned by the Israeli authorities that they will not tolerate the building of additional and multiple mosques from which to incite violence...especially since Muslims have already seen to it that Jewish worshippers aren't even allowed there.  These ppl were probably arrested for attempting to construct yet another mosque there after they had been warned not to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khalida Jarrar: “I will never stop speaking out”*

*




*

*Khalida Jarrar relaxes in her living room at home in Ramallah after 20 months in Israeli prison, where she was held without charge or trial.*

* Jaclynn Ashly*

*Khalida Jarrar: "I will never stop speaking out"*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.



You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation police arrested the director of construction at the Islamic Awqaf Eng.Bassam Hallaq and another employee from the courtyards of Al Aqsa mosque.




They were arrested for performing unauthorized construction work on the Temple Mount.  All construction work on the Temple Mount must be approved and supervised by Israel.

The reason all construction work must be supervised is because Arab Muslims are in the habit of deliberately destroying ancient Jewish archaeological sites and artifacts.  

Just more Arab Muslim whining when they are held accountable for their own bad behaviour.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘#Israel’ has been following a demolition policy targeting everything owned by Palestinians, to force them leave their properties and allow illegal Jewish settlers to replace them.




Yeah, no.  Even the Arabic sources are giving the reasons for the demolition as "building without a permit" and "encroachment upon the street" causing heavy traffic problems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
Click to expand...

Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
Click to expand...


Because I am one of them. Why do you answer a question with a question. Makes you a coward.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

My other rule Tinmore is not to say anything on this board that I would not say to someone’s face. I recommend You do the same. Civility is important even for dirty terrorists like you.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *I Love Israel*
> Then he would find the Arab/Muslim World despicable, right??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never considered white racism in South Africa, Angola, Mozambique and Namibia as a valid excuse to look the other way and ignore the moral depravity of Jim Crow's America.
> 
> Second:
> 
> Rabbi Heschel never established the end of apartheid and the development of fully democratic societies in those african countries as a precondition to start denouncing Jim Crow's America.
> 
> He knew perfectly well these arguments were blatant, scandalous logical fallacies.
> 
> You, on the other hand, seem to doing both things regarding Israel and the Arab world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He Doesn’t believe the Jewish people should have a homeland? Link, please ( There will not be one)
Click to expand...


JoseB has yet to make a legit point. I ll Wait patiently


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Two deaths and one big lie*
> 
> The killing of math teacher
> Yaqoub Abu al-Qiyan during an early 2017 raid on a Palestinian village was in many respects a typical act of violence by Israel’s colonization project. A Palestinian was left dead, others injured and homes were destroyed – starting with those belonging to Abu al-Qiyan’s family – to make way for a Jewish settlement.
> 
> There are unique aspects to his case – he was killed in Israel, not in the occupied West Bank, for one. And thanks to the UK-based research group Forensic Architecture, a moment-by-moment breakdown of the events leading up to Abu al-Qiyan’s death and the state cover-up that followed has been made publicly available.
> 
> When Yaqoub Abu al-Qiyan was killed in a Bedouin village slated for demolition on 18 January 2017, Benjamin Netanyahu immediately alleged he had carried out a “terror attack.”
> 
> But residents of Umm al-Hiran, the Naqab desert village in southern Israel stormed by hundreds of officers that day, as well as activists present, swiftly challenged the government’s narrative of events. They said that Abu al-Qiyan was killed without provocation.
> 
> Video recorded by Keren Manor, a member of the Activestills collective whose work has previously appeared on The Electronic Intifada, proved critical to unraveling Israel’s narrative.
> 
> Analysis from Forensic Architecture indicated that Abu al-Qiyan, a Palestinian citizen of Israel, was driving slowly and his vehicle only accelerated after he was shot at by police, suggesting he had lost control of his car.
> 
> Two deaths and one big lie




Yeah.  Another example of one-sided reporting which doesn't give the point of view of the Israeli LEOs. 

Yaqoub Abu al-Qiyan was in a vehicle, driving directly towards police officers and would not stop when directed to or when warning shots were fired.  The police responded as though Yaqoub was a possible threat.  They had only seconds to make decisions.  Not at all unreasonable with Arab Palestinians having a history of using vehicles as terrorist weapons.  

The first officer who discharged an aimed shot claims he was intending to fire at the tires of the car and not the driver.  This aligns with the leg injury sustained by Yaqoub.  This leg injury (right leg) probably led to Yaqoub being unable to properly control the pressure on the gas pedal and caused him to speed towards the officers, resulting in the death of one, Sgt Erez Levi.  The fatal shots, by three other officers, to the chest occurred after the car sped up.

The order of events:

Driver starts driving towards LEOs (who rightly are concerned that this is an impending car ramming)
Commands to stop are issued and ignored
Warning shots are issued and ignored
Shot attempting to disable vehicle is issued
Car speeds toward LEOs (due to leg injury of driver)
Fatal shots are issued from multiple sources

In other words, the accounts given by both the Palestinian source and the Israeli source match.  The Israeli investigation into the police actions show that none of the officers on scene acted with criminal intent.  And that the intent of the driver could not be ascertained. Entirely reasonable conclusion.

Just another Arab Palestinian spin to try to demonize Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
Click to expand...


Actually, my question was about obsession, not siding.  Since you have 53,000 posts to my 5,000, I'd say you are more obsessed than I am.  Considering you're not even an Arab, it's even more surprising.  As for siding, I can see both sides of the issue and I try not to demonize one side completely, like you do.  That's why I still believe in the 2-state solution, although some might call me naive or even a traitor.  You don't even seek a solution, unless it's for Israel ceasing to exist.  Jews have been persecuted for 2,000 years and we need one strip of land to call our own, even if it wasn't our ancestral homeland, from which we gave the Bible to the world.  My grandparents and uncles were forced out of Poland by pogroms.  They were denied visas to America.  Israel was the only place they could go to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I am one of them. Why do you answer a question with a question. Makes you a coward.
Click to expand...




AzogtheDefiler said:


> Why do you answer a question with a question.


Do I?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I am one of them. Why do you answer a question with a question. Makes you a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you answer a question with a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I?
Click to expand...


Keep dodging. Your cowardice is noted.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I am one of them. Why do you answer a question with a question. Makes you a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you answer a question with a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I?
Click to expand...


I show my kids the posts of Tinmore so that they may recognize what an antisemite and a Holocaust denier posts like.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. Why do you side with the thieves, killers, and liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I am one of them. Why do you answer a question with a question. Makes you a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you answer a question with a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do I?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I show my kids the posts of Tinmore so that they may recognize what an antisemite and a Holocaust denier posts like.
Click to expand...


I show my kids his posts for different reasons; I enjoy his frustration


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
Click to expand...

You really don't want to know.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really don't want to know.
Click to expand...


You got me all wrong. I do Want to know. The “occupation “ is fantastic. I am all for it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Book Awards 2019: Shortlist Announced*

*




*

*The 2019 shortlisted authors are:

Andrew Ross 
Stone Men: The Palestinians Who Built Israel (Verso Books)

Isabella Hammad
The Parisian (Jonathan Cape)

Islah Jad
Palestinian Women's Activism: Nationalism, Secularism, Islamism  (Syracuse University Press)

Nabil Anani
Nabil Anani: Palestine, Land and People (Saqi Books)

Nadia Yaqub
Palestinian Cinema in the Days of Revolution (University of Texas Press)

Noura Erakat
Justice for Some: Law and the Question of Palestine (Stanford University)
Yasmin Khan
Zaitoun: Recipes and Stories from the Palestinian Kitchen (Bloomsbury Publishing)*

*Palestine Book Awards 2019: Shortlist Announced - Palestine Book Awards*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would someone please inform me on why Tinmore is so passionate about this. Tough to debate when you don’t understand the logic of the person you’re debating against. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've never answered Azog's question of why you are obsessed with this issue.  Please do so now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really don't want to know.
Click to expand...



Mahmoud Abbas blames Jews' 'social behavior' for the Holocaust - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Anyone notice in his infamous You Tube postings there wasn't one mention of the Holocaust?  This is the reason.  
   Abbas believes the Jewish people have NO connection to the Holy Land; only Muslims and Christians do.
    For that reason ALONE there will ALWAYS be violence


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I never really understood this theory.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas blames Jews' 'social behavior' for the Holocaust - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Anyone notice in his infamous You Tube postings there wasn't one mention of the Holocaust?  This is the reason.
> Abbas believes the Jewish people have NO connection to the Holy Land; only Muslims and Christians do.
> For that reason ALONE there will ALWAYS be violence
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What does this essential mean?  

The connection to the Holy Land was assumed and acted upon by the Allied Powers at San Remo.  

_Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country_​
But, connection or not, does not alter the fact that subsequent actions were taken on that recognition over the last century.

There is no "do over" for the Arabs of Palestine.  You cannot roll back the clock.  They have to work with the mistakes they have made and what they have now.

There is an Israel, and the conditions of today require the Arabs of Palestine to drop the "Armed Struggle" policy and work with other nations to build a working and productive economy.

v/r
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> I never really understood this theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mahmoud Abbas blames Jews' 'social behavior' for the Holocaust - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Anyone notice in his infamous You Tube postings there wasn't one mention of the Holocaust?  This is the reason.
> Abbas believes the Jewish people have NO connection to the Holy Land; only Muslims and Christians do.
> For that reason ALONE there will ALWAYS be violence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this essential mean?
> 
> The connection to the Holy Land was assumed and acted upon by the Allied Powers at San Remo.
> 
> _Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country_​
> But, connection or not, does not alter the fact that subsequent actions were taken on that recognition over the last century.
> 
> There is no "do over" for the Arabs of Palestine.  You cannot roll back the clock.  They have to work with the mistakes they have made and what they have now.
> 
> There is an Israel, and the conditions of today require the Arabs of Palestine to drop the "Armed Struggle" policy and work with other nations to build a working and productive economy.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...



 To put it simply; he cant stand the fact that Israel exists. To constantly show YOU TUBE Videos of HASIDIC JEWS chanting for Israel's destruction  without ANY explanation are signs of ignorance, stupidity, and desperation


  Below is just an example of why some Hasidic and Orthodox Jews feel the way they do



The anti-Zionist world-view of the ultra-Orthodox groups Neturei Karta and Satmar Hasidism perceives Zionism and the establishment of the State of Israel as an anti-messianic act, conceived and born from sin. These groups vigorously deny the very legitimacy of the collective political return to the Holy Land and to Jewish sovereignty. For them, this is the handiwork of humans, violating the Jewish people’s oath of political quietism.


In the words of the (as expounded by Rashi), the people were adjured not to return collectively to the Land of Israel by the exertion of physical force, nor to “rebel against the nations of the world,” nor to “hasten the End.” In short, they were required to wait for the heavenly, complete, miraculous, supernatural, and meta-historical redemption that is totally distinct from the realm of human endeavor. This waiting over two millennia manifests the very essence and singularity of the Jewish people, expressing their faith in divine providence, in the assurance of the prophets, and in messianic destiny.


In this understanding, the Jewish people have been removed from the causal laws that govern nature and history and are exclusively bound by another set of religio-ethical laws within a causal process of reward and punishment, exile and redemption: “Unless the Lord build the house, its builders labor in vain; unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman keeps vigil in vain” (

​
 
*ooo*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Naksa Day: Palestinians Remember 1967 Israeli Occupation (VIDEO)*

This week, Palestinians mark the 52nd anniversary of Naksa Day, when Israel occupied the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights in the 1967 Six Day War, sparking a mass exodus of Palestinians from their homes.

‘Naksa,’ or the ‘setback,’ refers to the beginning of the 1967 Six Day War on June 5, which saw Israel triple in size as it annexed East Jerusalem, took the West Bank from Jordan, the Gaza Strip and Sinai from Egypt, and the Golan Heights from Syria, beginning over 50 years of occupation.






*Naksa Day: Palestinians Remember 1967 Israeli Occupation (VIDEO)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Author Ramzy Baroud Heads to Kenya in Ground-Breaking Tour*

*



*

“Until the lion learns how to write, every story will glorify the hunter” is a popular adage within the African decolonial literary movement, and according to Palestinian author, Ramzy Baroud, it accurately describes how the Israeli narrative has dominated the story of the occupation of Palestine.

Baroud will be in Nairobi from June 25 to July 3 on a ground-breaking tour to discuss his latest book, The Last Earth (Pluto, 2018) at various venues across the city.

Palestinian Author Ramzy Baroud Heads to Kenya in Ground-Breaking Tour


----------



## P F Tinmore

*550 Palestinians to Be Homeless Due to Israel’s Demolition Order*

Israeli authorities are pressing ahead with plans to demolish an entire Palestinian neighborhood in occupied East Jerusalem, human rights NGO  B’Tselem reported, which will leave 550 homeless.

Wadi Yasul, located between the neighborhoods of Abu Tur and Silwan, is home to 72 Palestinian families.

According to B’Tselem, the Jerusalem Municipality has “issued demolition orders for all the neighborhood homes so all the families there are facing the threat of expulsion.”






550 Palestinians to Be Homeless Due to Israel's Demolition Order


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Kushner as a Colonial Administrator: Let’s Talk about the ‘Israeli Model’*

In a TV interview on June 2, on the news docuseries “Axios” on the HBO channel, Jared Kushner opened up regarding many issues, in which his ‘Deal of the Century’ was a prime focus.

The major revelation made by Kushner, President Donald Trump’s adviser and son-in-law, was least surprising. Kushner believes that Palestinians are not capable of governing themselves.

Not surprising, because Kushner thinks he is capable of arranging the future of the Palestinian people without the inclusion of the Palestinian leadership. He has been pushing his so-called ‘Deal of the Century’ relentlessly while including in his various meets and conferences countries such as Poland, Brazil, and Croatia, but not Palestine.

Much has been said about the subtle racism in Kushner’s words, reeking with the stench of old colonial discourses where the natives were seen as lesser, incapable of rational thinking beings who needed the civilized ‘whites’ of the western hemisphere to help them cope with their backwardness and inherent incompetence.

Kushner as a Colonial Administrator: Let’s Talk about the ‘Israeli Model’


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

IOA seizes thousands of dunums in al-Khalil for settlement expansion

AL-KHALIL, (PIC)

The Israeli occupation authority (IOA) has informed Palestinian citizens of its intent to seize about 4,800 dunums of land in the towns of Yatta and Bani Na’im, east of al-Khalil.

Local official Rateb al-Rajoub said that the IOA had handed local residents during the holy month of Ramadan notices about its decision to seize the lands in the areas of Bireen, Khalat al-Furn, Ein ash-Shannar and gave them 45 days to object to the measure as of May 25.

He added that the IOA intends to use those lands to expand the illegal settlement of Pnei Hever, southeast of Bani Na’im town.

  Read more at  
IOA seizes thousands of dunums in al-Khalil for settlement expansion
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Ultra-Orthodox & Anti-Zionist | My Jewish Learning

Yes, I agree. We should have that STUPID button


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" - Video, Mahmoud Abbas | PMW

The Hasidic Jewish Community , the extreme Ultra Orthodox Jewish Community and Abbas oppose Israel but for totally different reasons.

 Either the poster is too stupid to know the difference or too bigoted  to acknowledge it

 We DO need that STUPID button


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
P F Tinmore, et al,

This, of course, is the very essence of _Political Satire_ as viewed by the Arabs of Palestine hold of the players in the conflict.  This *(ironically!)* is an inverted _(backward_) adaptation and modern version → that being the story of David and Goliath _[David being the chosen by the Creator → anointed by Samuel - to be the *King of Israel* (*the story also told as: Dawud and Jalut* *in Islam*)]_, at least 8 Centuries BCE ago _(≈ 2800 years before the establishment of the State of Palestine)_.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

This technique is a most effective in naturally making the reader feel the emotion that the author intentionally planned for them: sympathy for the State of Palestine and _(by extension)_ the Gazan violators of the sovereign integrity of Israel.

It has nothing to do with portraying the truth, and everything to do with drumming-up sympathy fostering sentiment in the incitement and support for the criminal behaviors that further future acts of violence.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






[PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall


DEAR PALESTINIANS.
    IF THERE IS EVER TO BE A TWO STATE SOLUTION. TREAT US THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Israel is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord*

*abomination noun*
abom·i·na·tion | \ ə-ˌbä-mə-ˈnā-shən  \
Definition of abomination
1 : something regarded with disgust or hatred : something abominable
considered war an abomination
2 : extreme disgust and hatred : LOATHING
a crime regarded with abomination


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Author: Rana Shubair













~ *My Lover is a Freedom Fighter ~*​ 


​ 
​




 "*When love,* 

 _*suffering* and_ 

 _*the will to overcome* 
_

........... _*occupation intermingle*...........


 _



_..........when *the call to duty*..........


_









 . . ._and_ _the desire *to*_ 

 _*live*_ 





_*and love*............ _ 


_



_
_. . .are in a constant tug of war _

 

 


 . . ._the decisions become only harder to make._



_After witnessing horrific events of_ 

 _*war and destruction*:_






 























_* Fatina struggles to find her inner peace.*_
_

_



_Her most tormenting challenge is: __

__ *Can she accept Abdullah’s life in the Resistance? *_







 




_Will Abdullah and_ 

 _Fatina survive the madness of loving under occupation? Is Abdullah destined to _

 _fight forever to free Palestine? And Is resistance his only life?”_







 . . . get a *real job* you lazy bum !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> *Israel is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord*
> 
> *abomination noun*
> abom·i·na·tion | \ ə-ˌbä-mə-ˈnā-shən  \
> Definition of abomination
> 1 : something regarded with disgust or hatred : something abominable
> considered war an abomination
> 2 : extreme disgust and hatred : LOATHING
> a crime regarded with abomination



Glad the JEWISH STATE bothers you


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians injured in protest against land seizure

NABLUS, (PIC)

Dozens of Palestinians on Friday choked on tear gas when the Israeli occupation forces attacked a peaceful demonstration against land confiscation in Nablus.

Anti-settlement activist Ghassan Daghlas said that the Israeli forces violently quelled a demonstration protesting Israel's confiscation of Palestinian-owned lands in Azmout and Deir Hatab villages in Nablus in favor of a new settlement project.

Daghlas said that dozens of protesters suffered breathing difficulties and some Palestinian fields were burned by tear gas bombs and stun grenades fired by the Israeli soldiers.

  Read more at  
Palestinians injured in protest against land seizure
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Anti-Palestinian groups fail to censor children’s book event*

*



*

Toddlers and their families will be able to attend a book event at a New Jersey public library despite attempts by Israel supporters and an anti-Palestinian lawmaker to censor the book and its author in recent weeks.

The reading and author signing for P is for Palestine, an alphabet book that celebrates Palestinian heritage and culture, had been the target of an aggressive smear campaign by the Zionist Organization of America
(ZOA) and Dov Hikind, a Brooklyn assemblyman who has ties to extremist right-wing groups.

Anti-Palestinian groups fail to censor children's book event


----------



## P F Tinmore

*New push to stop US funding torture of Palestinian children*

Israel would be banned from using US aid to detain and torture Palestinian children if a new bill becomes law.

The Promoting Human Rights for Palestinian Children Living Under Israeli Military Occupation Act was brought before the US Congress on Wednesday by Betty McCollum, an elected representative for Minnesota.

McCollum’s bill references the US State Department’s own acknowledgment of Israel’s systematic abuse of Palestinian children, including solitary confinement, beatings and coerced confessions.

New push to stop US funding torture of Palestinian children


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  watchingfromafar, et al,

That means what? (*in the eyes of the Lord*)

In Zech. 4:1 if. there is the vision of the seven-branched candlestick with lamps symbolizing the eyes of the Lord which survey the whole earth. Presumably "the ever-burning lamp in the temple is a representation of the kii!28q" (S. Aalen, Die Begriffe "Licht" und
"Finsternis" im Alten Testament, im Spiitjudentum und im Rabbinismus, 1951, 75).
Found on page 485 of THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEW TESTAMENT THEOLOGY.​
"Abomination" is a religious term.  This is "opinion" and a religious interpretation by man.  Notwithstanding the question of the existence of a deity, one loses credibility when attempting to know the mind of the Supreme Being; what the Supreme Being thinks.

Has any claimed encounter with the Supreme Being ever been historically authenticated?  What is the first thing we do, when someone claims to have spoken to a deity _[Jehovah (Hebrew), Zeus (Greek), Jupiter (Roman), Odin (Norse), Amun-Ra (Egyptian), etc]_?

Which one of these deities has been authenticated?  Will the real Supreme Being please stand up.



watchingfromafar said:


> *Israel is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord*
> 
> *abomination noun*
> abom·i·na·tion | \ ə-ˌbä-mə-ˈnā-shən  \
> Definition of abomination
> 1 : something regarded with disgust or hatred : something abominable
> considered war an abomination
> 2 : extreme disgust and hatred : LOATHING
> a crime regarded with abomination


*(REFERENCE)*

✦  From the Reference Book:  Page #2 _How to Use the Oxford Dictionary of Difficult Words_




​
*(COMMENT)*

An abomination is subjective and relative to a comparison.  Do any of the aforementioned deities consider the same things an abomination?  Or, let's look at the other end of the spectrum:  Which represents a better afterlife:  Heaven, Valhalla, or the Elysian Fields?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Watch how the students of the Faculty of Dentistry celebrated their graduation at the University of Palestine - Gaza Strip ♥


----------



## P F Tinmore

London hosts biggest exhibition on Palestine






LONDON, (PIC)

This year, London will once again host the world’s biggest exhibition on Palestine, bringing together culture, history, entertainment and exhibitions.

Organized by the British NGO Friends of Al-Aqsa (FOA), Palestine Expo aims to bring awareness to the Palestinian cause during the two-day event which is being held in the iconic Olympia Exhibition Center.

  Read more at  
London hosts biggest exhibition on Palestine
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## watchingfromafar

*Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*

December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine

The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.

The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*

According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).

Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.

The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*

A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
that stinks day or night


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night



Big words. All that's left out is the proof.
Actually Jewish settlement in Judea, and the rest of the land on both sides of the river,
is specifically protected under international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big words. All that's left out is the proof.
> Actually Jewish settlement in Judea, and the rest of the land on both sides of the river,
> is specifically protected under international law.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night



The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.  

Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.  


You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?

Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument. 

Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument. 

Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.
> 
> Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.
> 
> 
> You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?
> 
> Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.
Click to expand...

The land has been Palestine since 1924. Private property ownership is another layer.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.
> 
> Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.
> 
> 
> You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?
> 
> Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land has been Palestine since 1924. Private property ownership is another layer.
Click to expand...


The land has been internationally recognized as the homeland for the Jewish people since 1922 based on their historical claim as indigenous peoples. 

And it can be “Palestine” all it wants and still home to The Jewish people. 

Watching is trying to argue that there is a distinction between “Palestinian land” and some other land. I suspect he believes, as you do, that The Jewish people shouldn’t have the same rights as other peoples. And we all know what that is.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.
> 
> Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.
> 
> 
> You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?
> 
> Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land has been Palestine since 1924. Private property ownership is another layer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The land has been internationally recognized as the homeland for the Jewish people since 1922 based on their historical claim as indigenous peoples.
> 
> And it can be “Palestine” all it wants and still home to The Jewish people.
> 
> Watching is trying to argue that there is a distinction between “Palestinian land” and some other land. I suspect he believes, as you do, that The Jewish people shouldn’t have the same rights as other peoples. And we all know what that is.
Click to expand...

I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.



Well, no.  You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.  Indeed, you are arguing that self-determination for distinct peoples is not possible on that land.  Because that land must remain "Palestine".  

Its kinda like arguing that Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia and Kosovo can't exist.  Because ..... Yugoslavia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.  Indeed, you are arguing that self-determination for distinct peoples is not possible on that land.  Because that land must remain "Palestine".
> 
> Its kinda like arguing that Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia and Kosovo can't exist.  Because ..... Yugoslavia.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Well, no. You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.


Indeed, Palestinians and colonial settlers.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.
> 
> Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.
> 
> 
> You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?
> 
> Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land has been Palestine since 1924. Private property ownership is another layer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The land has been internationally recognized as the homeland for the Jewish people since 1922 based on their historical claim as indigenous peoples.
> 
> And it can be “Palestine” all it wants and still home to The Jewish people.
> 
> Watching is trying to argue that there is a distinction between “Palestinian land” and some other land. I suspect he believes, as you do, that The Jewish people shouldn’t have the same rights as other peoples. And we all know what that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.
Click to expand...


I call it Israel because it’s a territory defined by the United Nations May 14, 1948


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.  Indeed, you are arguing that self-determination for distinct peoples is not possible on that land.  Because that land must remain "Palestine".
> 
> Its kinda like arguing that Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia and Kosovo can't exist.  Because ..... Yugoslavia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no. You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Palestinians and colonial settlers.
Click to expand...


Sure.  And that argument would work if you had a consistent way of determining who and who was not a "colonial settler" AND if you entirely reject the idea of self-determination for distinct peoples.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> December 31, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Published in: Israel, Middle East, News, Palestine
> 
> The Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee filed an appeal to the Israeli Supreme Court yesterday denouncing the *Israeli government’s seizure of 1,200 dunams (297 acres) of Palestinian-owned land* south of the Bethlehem district, in the southern occupied West Bank.
> 
> The head of the committee, Hassan Bureija, told the Voice of Palestine radio that the Israeli government granted 1,182 dunams (292 acres) of Palestinian land to the Israeli Ministry of Construction and Housing as a foundation *for building an illegal Israeli outpost in the area.*
> 
> According to settlement watchdog Peace Now, in the two years *since United States President Trump took office some 14,454 units have been approved in the occupied West Bank*, more than three times the amount that was approved in the year and a half before his inauguration (4,476 units).
> 
> Between 500,000 and 600,000 Israelis live in Jewish-only settlements across occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank *in violation of international law*.
> 
> The estimated 196 government recognised Israeli settlements scattered across the Palestinian territory are *all considered illegal under international law.
> Israel seizes 1,200 dunams of Palestinian land for new settlement*
> 
> A thief is a thief; a thief is a thief; a thief is a thief;
> that stinks day or night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article quoted is vague and gives no indication of the exact location of the land in question.  Therefore, there is no way to verify any of the claims posted here.
> 
> Its just vague accusations of "Palestinian land' so Israel (read: Jews) are evil.  Putting statements in *BOLD* doesn't make them true.
> 
> 
> You want to discuss this?  Bring better articles and better arguments.  Specifically: provide legal evidence that the territory you are discussing is "Palestinian land'.  What territory is "Palestinian land"?  How do you know it is "Palestinian land"?  What legal documents or treaties support your claims that specific territory is "Palestinian land"?
> 
> Reminder:  Private land ownership is not sovereignty.  It has nothing to do with sovereignty.  It does not affect sovereignty. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  Because .... Joooooos, is not a valid argument.
> 
> Reminder:  People of a certain ethnic or cultural identity are not permitted to live in this territory is the definition of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. It is not a valid argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land has been Palestine since 1924. Private property ownership is another layer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The land has been internationally recognized as the homeland for the Jewish people since 1922 based on their historical claim as indigenous peoples.
> 
> And it can be “Palestine” all it wants and still home to The Jewish people.
> 
> Watching is trying to argue that there is a distinction between “Palestinian land” and some other land. I suspect he believes, as you do, that The Jewish people shouldn’t have the same rights as other peoples. And we all know what that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call it Israel because it’s a territory defined by the United Nations May 14, 1948
Click to expand...

 Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call it Palestine because it is territory defined by Palestinian international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.  Indeed, you are arguing that self-determination for distinct peoples is not possible on that land.  Because that land must remain "Palestine".
> 
> Its kinda like arguing that Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia and Kosovo can't exist.  Because ..... Yugoslavia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no. You are trying to pretend that there are not two distinct peoples seeking self-determination in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Palestinians and colonial settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure.  And that argument would work if you had a consistent way of determining who and who was not a "colonial settler" AND if you entirely reject the idea of self-determination for distinct peoples.
Click to expand...

Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Horse riding competition in Gaza


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.



We agree.  But you keep trying to argue both sides of this coin.

On the one hand, you say that distinct peoples collectively have rights of self-determination.  

On the other hand, you say that Palestine is Palestine because of legal international boundaries which can not be changed despite the existence of two distinct peoples.

You can not have it both ways.  Either the rights belong to the distinct peoples within the territory, or the rights belong to the territory and its integrity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Horse riding competition in Gaza







Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.  But you keep trying to argue both sides of this coin.
> 
> On the one hand, you say that distinct peoples collectively have rights of self-determination.
> 
> On the other hand, you say that Palestine is Palestine because of legal international boundaries which can not be changed despite the existence of two distinct peoples.
> 
> You can not have it both ways.  Either the rights belong to the distinct peoples within the territory, or the rights belong to the territory and its integrity.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians belong to the land. Nobody can violate that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign (SeaMAC) launches a new month-long advertising campaign on public buses in San Francisco.
#BoycottIsrael


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who want to be in this place ?! 

#JerusalemIsTheCapitalOfPalestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Occupation court has sentenced Palestinian writer Lama Khater, 43y/o, to 13 months in jail and fined her 4,000 shekels


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Horse riding competition in Gaza



So your own picture proves that Gazans aren't suffering so much from the Israeli blockade.  Only privileged ppl can have horse riding competitions.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Who want to be in this place ?!
> 
> #JerusalemIsTheCapitalOfPalestine



Perhaps a part of it someday, like the part known as Abu Dis.  Right now it is the beautiful capital of Israel, like it was under King David, who first made it the capital of Israel 3000 years ago.  In fact, that anniversary was celebrated quite recently.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza



It doesn't look like an open-air concentration camp to me,  like ppl are always claiming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Civilians deliberately targeted in Gaza attacks, reports find*

Israel killed 13 Palestinian civilians who weren’t involved in hostilities or affiliated with militant groups in its latest military campaign in Gaza, according to a new report by B’Tselem released Wednesday. Two of the casualties were children and three were women, one of whom was heavily pregnant. “These deaths are the foreseeable outcome of Israel’s unlawful, immoral policy of bombing homes in Gaza,” determined B’Tselem.

*Civilians deliberately targeted in Gaza attacks, reports find | +972 Magazine*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*After 3 years, accusations against Gaza World Vision head remain unproven*
_*Mohammed Halabi, arrested in 2016 by Israel on accusations of diverting charity funds to Hamas, is still behind bars. Dozens of court hearings later, the state has yet to present evidence against him.*_

+972 Magazine has spent months investigating the Halabi case, examining the origins of the allegations, the reasons behind them, and speaking to key players in the story. The picture that emerges from many pages of internal World Vision documents, rarely heard details of the court case, and a correspondence with Halabi himself, is more than just that of an innocent Palestinian being tortured, mistreated and pressured to capitulate to Israeli demands; it also raises uncomfortable questions for many in the global and Israeli media who willingly accept Israeli government claims about Palestinians — even when there is no supporting evidence.

It’s a common complaint by Israeli officials, rarely backed up with hard evidence, that Palestinian employees of international aid groups in Gaza exploit their positions to help Hamas. A number of Palestinians working in Gaza have been arrested and confessed to helping Hamas over the years, but lawyers for the accused men have always alleged that these confessions were elicited through torture at the hands of the Shin Bet. Israel still routinely tortures Palestinians, including children. Hanna says that prosecution witnesses in Halabi’s trial have acknowledged during cross examination being tortured by the Shin Bet and admitting falsehoods.

After 3 years, accusations against Gaza World Vision head remain unproven | +972 Magazine


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Court overturns Palestinian's incitement conviction over poem*





Dareen Tatour (right) and attorney Gaby Lasky seen at the Nazareth District Court after the court partially cleared Tatour of incitement to violence in a poem she published on Facebook, May 16, 2019. (Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)

Court overturns Palestinian's incitement conviction over poem | +972 Magazine


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds'*
*A new report published by 7amleh documents anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian content on Hebrew-language social media and highlights the disparities in the way Israeli authorities treat violent speech online. *

Hate speech, derogatory statements, and calls for violence against Palestinians are posted on Israeli social media every 71 seconds, according to a report published this week by 7amleh (pronounced Hamleh), the Arab Center for the Advancement of Social Media.

'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds' | +972 Magazine


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Civilians deliberately targeted in Gaza attacks, reports find*
> 
> Israel killed 13 Palestinian civilians who weren’t involved in hostilities or affiliated with militant groups in its latest military campaign in Gaza, according to a new report by B’Tselem released Wednesday. Two of the casualties were children and three were women, one of whom was heavily pregnant. “These deaths are the foreseeable outcome of Israel’s unlawful, immoral policy of bombing homes in Gaza,” determined B’Tselem.
> 
> *Civilians deliberately targeted in Gaza attacks, reports find | +972 Magazine*




Funny how you fail to mention that *both reports unequivocally found that Palestinian armed groups launched attacks which were unlawfully indiscriminate.*

And actually, neither report finds that Israel deliberately targeted civilians.  Rather, that Israeli attacks _appeared_ to have no military objective (in 2 cases, 1 of which seems to have had an objective but based on outdated intel) OR they had a clear military objective but _may_ have been disproportionate.



Oh, and edited to add:  Israel conducted dozens of strikes during this period.  Only 4 were considered even remotely problematic.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds'*
> *A new report published by 7amleh documents anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian content on Hebrew-language social media and highlights the disparities in the way Israeli authorities treat violent speech online. *
> 
> Hate speech, derogatory statements, and calls for violence against Palestinians are posted on Israeli social media every 71 seconds, according to a report published this week by 7amleh (pronounced Hamleh), the Arab Center for the Advancement of Social Media.
> 
> 'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds' | +972 Magazine



Looks like more of an opinion or propaganda piece since there is no access to actual data or examples of what specific phrases they were searching for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sama Abdulhadi*

*Meet Palestine’s first techno DJ*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conversation and Blessing with Linda Sarsour and Jacqui Lewis*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds'*
> *A new report published by 7amleh documents anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian content on Hebrew-language social media and highlights the disparities in the way Israeli authorities treat violent speech online. *
> 
> Hate speech, derogatory statements, and calls for violence against Palestinians are posted on Israeli social media every 71 seconds, according to a report published this week by 7amleh (pronounced Hamleh), the Arab Center for the Advancement of Social Media.
> 
> 'Hate speech against Palestinians posted every 71 seconds' | +972 Magazine



You mean there isn’t Hate Speech among Palestinians against Israelis??


----------



## P F Tinmore

Thousands marching in Istanbul last night to voice solidarity with Jerusalem and the Palestinian people.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

'Brick by brick, wall by wall, apartheid has to fall!' — with Leonardo Almonacid.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Book Talk with Rashid Khalidi -- Brokers of Deceit*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths climb the apartheid wall to perform the first Friday prayer in Ramadan at al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian youths climb the apartheid wall to perform the first Friday prayer in Ramadan at al-Aqsa Mosque.






Jerusalem: Jews praying at the Western Wall

 Jews praying what USED to be  the APARTHEID WESTERN WALL.   OMG !!  Did I see HASIDIC and ORTHODOX JEWS there?   Someone should tell them they're going to go to Hell !!    KEEP POSTING!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine, Israel and the Assault on Academic Freedom: Student Movement(s) for Justice in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Can Trump buy Palestine for peanuts?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Farewell little angel. You're safe where you are now!
Baby girl Maria al-Ghazali, 4 months old, was killed along with her parents in an Israeli airstrike on their home in Gaza on May 5th.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli terror: so far in the current bloodthirsty Israeli pastime activity, they have slaughtered 17 Palestinians, injured over 110 and destroyed and damaged scores of residential homes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



The wall was built to prevent suicide bombings from the crazed Arabs.  Thank Gd it turned out to be very effective in that regard.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall was built to prevent suicide bombings from the crazed Arabs.  Thank Gd it turned out to be very effective in that regard.
Click to expand...

Not really. What the liars don't tell you is that the Palestinians ended suicide bombing about 2006.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour- Sheds "Light on Darkness" - Hanukkah -Bklyn 2015*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall was built to prevent suicide bombings from the crazed Arabs.  Thank Gd it turned out to be very effective in that regard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. What the liars don't tell you is that the Palestinians ended suicide bombing about 2006.
Click to expand...


No one said the wall was just built this past year.  According to Wikipedia, the wall started being built in 2002, at the height of the Second Intifada.  By 2006, a majority of the wall had been built, which thankfully ended suicide bombings.  In 2012, it was completed for the most part.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wall was built to prevent suicide bombings from the crazed Arabs.  Thank Gd it turned out to be very effective in that regard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. What the liars don't tell you is that the Palestinians ended suicide bombing about 2006.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one said the wall was just built this past year.  According to Wikipedia, the wall started being built in 2002, at the height of the Second Intifada.  By 2006, a majority of the wall had been built, which thankfully ended suicide bombings.  In 2012, it was completed for the most part.
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Savages!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

"Thousands of years ago, during the Biblical Era, Hebrew was the spoken language of the kings, prophets and ordinary people.  Now, in the same land, Hebrew connects King David with Children of Israel today."  (Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks of Great Britain)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



It’s a Good Way to get Shot. Hope they keep it up


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wall of Shame - Documentary Video on Apartheid in Palestine*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia

  Israel " occupied" E. Jerusalem and illegally annexed the City?  Notice you didn't mention it was after the 67 War the Arabs initiated. Do you find anything wrong with the way the Jews were treated?  Of course not. Do us all a big favor; Keep Posting


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

U.S. condemns Palestinian claim that Western Wall 'isn't Jewish'

tps://israelunwired.com/anti-israel-rally-at-times-square-in-new-york-with-horrific-idiotic-chants/


CHECKMATE!  Your turn next,


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this video you have posted is quite dated.  It documents the Bir Nabala - West Bank Barrier Incident; disputed territory.    



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The Israeli Security Barrier is a physical security measure taken to:

※  Protect Citizens of Israel

※  Defend the Sovereign integrity of Israel

※  Prevent the infiltration Palestinians as a deterrence against terrorist attacks.​

The Security Barrier construction began in late 2000 _(August - September time frame)_.   It is not really, an Armistice Line _(Green Line)_ Barrier. The Green Line was dissolved by agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved." [_Article XII Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement _(1949)]   The _Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty_ was signed on 26 October, 1994 and established an International Border Without Prejudice to the Arabs of Palestine. 

The claim that the Security Barrier, in certain stretches of its construction, breached the Green Line and cut into Palestinian Territory.  It did not.  To this day, the State of Palestine, does not technically delineate its boundaries, nor demonstrates any sovereign control over a specific territory.  Gaza, for all intent and purposes, is a territory controlled by a designated terrorist organization by the EU, the British Commonwealth, and America.  The Palestinian Authority only exercises full control over Area "A" (_Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip_). 

Many times I have heard the argument that this or that is in "Palestinian Territory."  I would like to know →  "What is Palestinian Territory?"  When did they establish sovereign control?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.



You don’t honestly expect to receive an answer, do you?  Just consider the source and play with it


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I have always been a bit confused on this matter of Occupation as it applies to "Jerusalem."

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
103. H.Con.Res.352 — 98th Congress (1983-1984) A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of the Congress that the United States Embassy in Israel should be located in the city of Jerusalem. *Sponsor:* Rep. Lantos, Tom [D-CA-11] (Introduced 09/06/1984) *Cosponsors:* (1) *Committees:* House - Foreign Affairs * Latest Action: * House - 10/02/1984 Forwarded by Subcommittee to Full Committee. (All Actions)



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Jerusalem → illegally annexed the City?


*(COMMENT)*

WHO did Israel take Jerusalem from?

P.L. 104-45: A SummaryThe most significant legislation dealing with Jerusalem is P.L. 104-45, *which became law on November 8, 1995*, without the President’s signature.--Section 3(a) states that it is the policy of the United States that Jerusalem should be undivided with protection for religious and ethnic rights, that Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital, and that the U.S. embassy should be moved to Jerusalem by 31 May 1999.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> I have always been a bit confused on this matter of Occupation as it applies to "Jerusalem."
> 
> CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
> 103. H.Con.Res.352 — 98th Congress (1983-1984) A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of the Congress that the United States Embassy in Israel should be located in the city of Jerusalem. *Sponsor:* Rep. Lantos, Tom [D-CA-11] (Introduced 09/06/1984) *Cosponsors:* (1) *Committees:* House - Foreign Affairs * Latest Action: * House - 10/02/1984 Forwarded by Subcommittee to Full Committee. (All Actions)
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem → illegally annexed the City?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> WHO did Israel take Jerusalem from?
> 
> P.L. 104-45: A SummaryThe most significant legislation dealing with Jerusalem is P.L. 104-45, *which became law on November 8, 1995*, without the President’s signature.--Section 3(a) states that it is the policy of the United States that Jerusalem should be undivided with protection for religious and ethnic rights, that Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital, and that the U.S. embassy should be moved to Jerusalem by 31 May 1999.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, but the US is not the arbiter of foreign land or international borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.


Moral imperative.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this video you have posted is quite dated.  It documents the Bir Nabala - West Bank Barrier Incident; disputed territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 266037 View attachment 266038
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israeli Security Barrier is a physical security measure taken to:
> 
> ※  Protect Citizens of Israel
> 
> ※  Defend the Sovereign integrity of Israel
> 
> ※  Prevent the infiltration Palestinians as a deterrence against terrorist attacks.​
> 
> The Security Barrier construction began in late 2000 _(August - September time frame)_.   It is not really, an Armistice Line _(Green Line)_ Barrier. The Green Line was dissolved by agreement "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved." [_Article XII Israeli-Jordanian Armistice Agreement _(1949)]   The _Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty_ was signed on 26 October, 1994 and established an International Border Without Prejudice to the Arabs of Palestine.
> 
> The claim that the Security Barrier, in certain stretches of its construction, breached the Green Line and cut into Palestinian Territory.  It did not.  To this day, the State of Palestine, does not technically delineate its boundaries, nor demonstrates any sovereign control over a specific territory.  Gaza, for all intent and purposes, is a territory controlled by a designated terrorist organization by the EU, the British Commonwealth, and America.  The Palestinian Authority only exercises full control over Area "A" (_Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip_).
> 
> Many times I have heard the argument that this or that is in "Palestinian Territory."  I would like to know →  "What is Palestinian Territory?"  When did they establish sovereign control?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinian territory and international borders were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.

You keep confusing military occupation with the right to sovereignty.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Finally Released: Censored Al Jazeera Documentary Exposes Israel-Backed Attacks on US Activists*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You are absolutely correct. 



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, but the US is not the arbiter of foreign land or international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Two major points:

◈  While it is immediately obvious to the casual observer that in the real world (reality), as previously stated in Posting #10866 that the sovereign control of the State of Israel is quite clear and cannot be mistaken.  Nor is Israel sovereign territory answerable to any other authority.  The same cannot be said for the Arabs of the West Bank, other than Area "A."  And the question of who controls the Gaza Strip is up for debate (HAMAS vs Palestinian Authority).  And, there is still a further question about the legitimatecy of the HAMAS governing body and the Palestinian Authority. 

◈  No US decision on the matter required any other country or people to recognize Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital.   And by the same token, no other country or people have the right to impose their decision on America.​
Having said that, will the real government, meeting the criteria under the Rights and Duties of a Government, PLEASE stand up_*!*_

If America wants to recognize Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel and to move the American Embassy to Jerusalem, THEN, so be it.  No country has the ability to impose, intimidate or coerce the American people into making a decision through the threat or use of force.  That is especially true of people, like the Arab Palestinians that have supported Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters in:

◈  23 Jul 1968 - The hijacking of El Al Flight 426 from Rome to Israel,
◈  26 Dec 1968 - Gunmen opened fire on El Al Flight 253 in Athens enroute to New York, 
◈  18 Feb 1969 - An attack on El Al Flight 432 passengers jet at Zürich,
◈  29 Aug 1969 - The hijacking of TWA Flight 840 from Los Angeles to Damascus,
◈  10 February 1970 - Attack on a bus containing El Al passengers at Munich airport, 
◈  30 May 1972 - Attack on Terminal Ben Gurion International Airport,
◈  13 Oct 1977 - Hijacking Lufthansa Flight 181, Palma de Mallorca to Frankfurt,
◈  12 Apr 1984 - Bus hijacked Tel Aviv to Damascus,
◈  1 Jun 2001 - Dolphinarium in Tel Aviv, 
◈  9 Aug 2001 - Sbarro's Pizzeria in Jerusalem, 
◈  2 Dec 2001 - Haifa bus, 
◈  27 Mar 2002 - Park Hotel 
◈  31 Mar 2002 - Matza Restaurant in Haifa, 
◈  7 May 2002 - Rishon Letzion Hall, 
◈  18 Jun 2002 - #32 bus from Gilo, Jerusalem, 
◈  5 Mar, 2003 - #37 bus in Haifa, 
◈  11 Jun 11, 2003 - #14 bus, Jerusalem, 
◈  19 Aug 2003 - #2 bus from Western Wall,​


 ​Arab Palestinians are a prominent category culture of people that have consistently chosen to run up against Rule #2 • Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) → prohibiting acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited. _(Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I)(Article 13(2) of Additional Protocol II)_

What is even more striking that, no matter how many times the question is raised, the Arab Palestinians still argue that they have some special exemption under the law that allows them to target the civilian population as exemplified above.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is 100% wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian territory and international borders were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.
> 
> You keep confusing military occupation with the right to sovereignty.


*(COMMENT)*

The Armistice Agreements of 1949 were "temporary" and only in effect and in force until peace settlements were agreed upon. 

The Armistice Agreements of 1949 did not establish international borders.  This is particularly true of the Treaties that impact the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. 

I'm not confusing "occupation" with "sovereignty" at all.



			
				ENCYCLOPÆDIC DICTIONARY OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Pages 563 - 564 said:
			
		

> *sovereignty* ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished
> from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.
> Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of
> supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international
> relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a
> State]. Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international
> order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which
> have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal
> attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless. Actually, such efforts
> appear to minimize unduly the fundamental character of the principle of legal sovereignty
> within the realm of international law. The rules underlying this principle derive their importance
> from the basic fact that “almost all international relations are bound up” with the
> independence of States. Thus, the principle of sovereignty in general, and that of territorial
> sovereignty in particular remains of necessity the “point of departure in settling most questions
> that concern international relations” [ Island of Palmas Case ( 1928 ) 2 R.I.A.A. 829 at
> 839]’: Schwarzenberger , International Law (3rd ed.), 114–115. Sovereignty is not absolute
> in the sense of permitting a State to act as it will regardless of international law. ‘We can
> no longer regard sovereignty as an absolute and individual right of every State, as used
> to be the case under the old law founded on the individualist regime, according to which
> States were only bound by the rules which they had accepted. Today, owing to social
> interdependence and to the predominance of general interest, the states are bound by many
> rules which have not been ordered by their will’: Separate Opinion of Judge Alvarez in
> Corfu Channel Case 1949 I.C.J. Rep 39 at 43. See also Barker , International Law and
> International Relations ( 2000 ), 44: ‘The extent to which states can ever be said to have
> been endowed with external sovereignty, which placed them above the law, is certainly
> debatable. However, in modern day international relations where states interact with one
> another on a daily basis, not only at the governmental level but also at all possible levels of
> interaction, any claim of absolute sovereignty becomes impossible. As regards the impact
> of international law on the internal sovereignty of states . . . insofar as international law
> does exist and states accept that it does exist . . . the existence of the internal sovereignty of
> states stands not as an obstacle to international law but as a mechanism providing for the
> distribution of power in the international relations of states.’ See I Oppenheim 123–126 ;
> Verzijl , International Law in Historical Perspective ( 1968 ), Vol. 1, 256–292; Korowicz ,
> Introduction to International Law ( 1959 ), Chaps. 1–6.



It cannot be the case that IsraelOccupied any territory of the State of Palestine.  The State of Palestine cannot demonstrate that it was even once, a party to a conflict with Israel, or that Israel ever controlled any territory of the State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
Click to expand...


You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
Click to expand...

Every time I get serious everyone else starts dancing.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
Click to expand...


My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).
Click to expand...

But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every time I get serious everyone else starts dancing.
Click to expand...


Nope. Impossible to get serious when you act like a child and refuse to state why you feel so passionately about the issue.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.
Click to expand...


It’s a start. What is your dog in the fight vs Israel. Why aren’t your for example posting about the Sudan or Lybia or Turkey?


----------



## José

I have an even better question:

Why do american Jews (including Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel) support democracy in America and South Africa and jewish racial dictatorship in Palestine?







*Heschel, left, presenting the Judaism and World Peace Award*
* to Martin Luther King Jr., December 7, 1965*​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for Tinmore to explain why he cares so much. Would be very helpful when having a civil debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s a start. What is your dog in the fight vs Israel. Why aren’t your for example posting about the Sudan or Lybia or Turkey?
Click to expand...


He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. How many times have you seen him post that HASIDIC Jews and HAMAS agree that Israel should not exist for the same reason ( Which is a Lie).


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Moral imperative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You spelled “moron” incorrectly. Either you want to have a serious conversation or you don’t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My guess is that it's a combination of anti-Semitism and hypocricy (he lives on Native American and Mexican land and he personally participated in the occupation of Vietnam).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But I was a school teacher in Vietnam. Here are some of my students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s a start. What is your dog in the fight vs Israel. Why aren’t your for example posting about the Sudan or Lybia or Turkey?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. How many times have you seen him post that HASIDIC Jews and HAMAS agree that Israel should not exist for the same reason ( Which is a Lie).
Click to expand...


It is his truth. There is a faction of traitorous Jews that is anti Israel but it is tiny. Just as there is a small % of the Muslim world that is supportive of Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> I have an even better question:
> 
> Why do american Jews (including Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel) support democracy in America and South Africa and jewish racial dictatorship in Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Heschel, left, presenting the Judaism and World Peace Award*
> * to Martin Luther King Jr., December 7, 1965*​


Israel is a vibrant democracy.  Israeli Arabs speak Hebrew better than me, and are doctors, nurses and professors.  The Palestinian territories are still in a state of chaos, caused by many different factors.  I hope one day they can reach a deal with Israel and become a vibrant democracy as well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is nothing more than the admission that the Israel havedone diplomatically and legally better than the Terrorist Palestinians. 



P F Tinmore said:


> *The Struggle for Palestinian Rights: Revisiting US Policy and International Law*


*(COMMENT)*

This is total nonsense.  Each point made can be addressed easily.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## José

Israel is a *vibrant democracy*. Israeli Arabs speak Hebrew better than me, and are doctors, nurses and professors. The *Palestinian territories* are still in a state of chaos, caused by many different factors. I hope one day they can reach a deal with Israel and become a vibrant democracy as well.




​You've just worked a miracle... you've managed to contradict yourself in just 4 phrases.

Even flawed democracies don't set up ethnic "territories" to confine undesired ethnic groups under the threat of death, let alone a "vibrant democracy".

The ethnic enclave in Gaza and the WB "cantons" make Jim Crow's America look like heaven on Earth.

Not being allowed to enter a restaurant or sit in the front seats of a bus is chicken feed compared to being shot in the head for the "crime" of leaving your home and go look for work in Tel Aviv, part of your own homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The brutal colonization of Palestine by Israel*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Fatah Logo Celebrating 48th Anniversary Erases Israel from Map

They can yell and scream about " International Law" and " Right of Return" all they want but their constant declaration of what their goal is just strengthens Israel's position.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The Real Reason the Palestinians Won’t Attend the Bahrain Conference

And so it continues...…….


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque, occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Children in Gaza having fun on the first day of Eid al-Fitr.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hanady Halawany: a lioness among a pack of hyenas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The future is Palestine


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Every Harvard type silver spoon has some rich, well placed and influential mentor.  Prominent in the background Jared Kushner are the mentors →  Washington politico and National Security Advisor during the Vietnam War → Henry Kissinger _(See Henry Kissinger:  Good or Evil)_; and → financial investment associate George Soros _(See Top 10 Reasons George Soros Is Dangerous)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> It's not the economy, it's the occupation, stupid.


*(COMMENT)*

Having said that, the track pattern and impact of Jared Kushner gives no one any real cause to believe that he is any more correct in his vision of the problem between Israel and Palestine.  And concerning his ability to weigh in on the pro's and con's of the question, it is questionable if he is even qualified to lead a Girl Scout Troop across Havard Yard _(whether it be the old one or the new)_.

What one of you has mentioned many times before, is that there is no such single answer approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Both the quasi-Occupation and the failed state economy, there is more to it than just either of the two conditions.  And, what is quietly no being said is the rampant corruption in the Leadership of the (so-called) State of Palestine.  

So, my friend (P F Tinmore), you can hang your hat on those eight words _(10 if you count the contractions)_ if you wish.  But it doesn't lead to a solution.  The conference at the Manama Four Seasons will end just like the many conferences and conventions at Alexandria, Amman, Casablanca, Doha, Khartoum, Kuwait City, Rabat, Sharm el-Sheikh, Tunis, etc, going nowhere.  Just like The Palestinians themselves, cannot decide on a government, there is no reason to assume that they might agree on a settlement.  Arabs don't do things that way.  And, without regard to the idea of Kushner's _(Occupation vs Economy)_, a prosperous economy is going to make the quality of life in the disputed territory a whole helluva lot better for the general population, especially in the beginning of the accumulation of wealth.  And people who are wealth are less likely to risk it in a conflict, then they are in the breakup of the national war of liberation.  Most of the Arab Leaders have lived through a war.  Like myself, they know what it is like to face the rath of a 122mm and the gunfire of a Kalashnikov.  Who do you think attempted to assassinate King Hussein not just once but twice?  _(I'll give you a HINT:  It wasn't the Mouseketeers.)_

But, if you are inclined to believe that the more mature Arab Leadership within the Arab League is going to take the advise of a 38-year-old on matters of conflict resolution; well → let's wait and see. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> ​


*(COMMENT)*

Well, _(I could be wrong)_ but I thought Myanmar was a "Republic" with a normalized government.   I thought President Win Myint last year.

MOST RESPECTFULLY,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque, occupied Jerusalem.




Jerusalem.  Homeland of the Jewish people.  Occupied by invading cultures for 3000 years.  The only indigenous peoples to regain sovereignty over their traditional territories.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Hanady Halawany: a lioness among a pack of hyenas.




Apparently "lioness" keeps getting banned from Jerusalem.  Maybe she needs to find some new hunting grounds.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Well, no. Its not the occupation.  Its Jewish sovereignty.

See, if it was the occupation and by "occupation" you mean Jewish sovereignty on part of the land where the Jewish people control their own fate, and Arab Palestinian sovereignty on part of the land where the Arab Palestinians control their own fate, there would have been peace near on 100 years ago. 

But by "occupation", you mean, clearly and explicitly, the complete rejection of any Jewish sovereignty on any part of the land.  By this definition, it is impossible for Israel OR the Jewish people to "end the occupation".  Because, by definition, ending the occupation means an end to any sort of independent Jewish sovereignty in any of the territory.

This isn't exactly news.

What continues to surprise me about this is the utter inability of the Arab Palestinians to understand they are in a "no win" situation.  Holding on to the idea of "no Jewish sovereignty anywhere" is not only morally abhorrent but, IMPORTANTLY, absolutely impossible to achieve.  Israel is a million miles ahead of them according to any measure you want to lay down:  economically, militarily, politically.... on and on.  And even the Arabs are abandoning the Arab Palestinians, and importantly, the IDEOLOGY of "no Jewish sovereignty".

There is no way for the Arab Palestinians to improve their lives, their culture or their nationhood under an umbrella of "no Jewish sovereignty anywhere".


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, _et al,_

Surrounding these many, many issues, are what we have come to realize are incomplete theories.  



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque, occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem.  Homeland of the Jewish people.  Occupied by invading cultures for 3000 years.  The only indigenous peoples to regain sovereignty over their traditional territories.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

ONE CONCEPT:

◈  One of these incomplete theories is the concept of "right of return" which is directly related and tethered to the concept of the "obligation to refugees."  We generalize these under the heading of "humanitarian law."   Contemporary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) began to be codified in the 19th Century (≈1864) with the enmergence of the the Geneva Convention.

◈  The "right of return" is actually a transfer of an obligations from the burden of one political subdivision to another.  The obligation is base on the self-imposed redistribution of wealth → and → as a desire to promote the welfare of others → a measure of generousity as donation to a worthy causes.  It is a social advocation of help to those _(the refugee)_ in need; as a humanitarian act.​
ANOTHER CONCEPT:  

◈  Another close entanglement is the tie between "territorial acquistion" and the "rights of the former inhabitance drive out by conflict."  This is actually a transfer of wealth in the form of land _(property generating revenue through commerce)_ and the production and consumption goods and services from the land.   These are yardsticks by which society measures the accumulation of wealth.

◈  Refugees lose wealth in the vacation or abandonment of property and the void is filled by the the acquiring entity that follows in its place.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.

◈   Up and until the Treaty of Westphalia (1648) the act of defeating an opposing State and occupying all or part of its territory with the intention of annexation was revisited.  Even in the wars that came after the Treaty of Westphailia, customary law pertaining to territory acquistion as a result of a Armed Conflict did not change.  For example, the Spanish-American War (1895), Puerto Rico and Guam were ceded; and Cuba became an American Protectorate.​Each of these issues is not fully completed and thought out concepts.  Thus the contemporary laws are confused in there interpretation and misapplied in others.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, _et al,_
> 
> Surrounding these many, many issues, are what we have come to realize are incomplete theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque, occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem.  Homeland of the Jewish people.  Occupied by invading cultures for 3000 years.  The only indigenous peoples to regain sovereignty over their traditional territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ONE CONCEPT:
> 
> ◈  One of these incomplete theories is the concept of "right of return" which is directly related and tethered to the concept of the "obligation to refugees."  We generalize these under the heading of "humanitarian law."   Contemporary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) began to be codified in the 19th Century (≈1864) with the enmergence of the the Geneva Convention.
> 
> ◈  The "right of return" is actually a transfer of an obligations from the burden of one political subdivision to another.  The obligation is base on the self-imposed redistribution of wealth → and → as a desire to promote the welfare of others → a measure of generousity as donation to a worthy causes.  It is a social advocation of help to those _(the refugee)_ in need; as a humanitarian act.​
> ANOTHER CONCEPT:
> 
> ◈  Another close entanglement is the tie between "territorial acquistion" and the "rights of the former inhabitance drive out by conflict."  This is actually a transfer of wealth in the form of land _(property generating revenue through commerce)_ and the production and consumption goods and services from the land.   These are yardsticks by which society measures the accumulation of wealth.
> 
> ◈  Refugees lose wealth in the vacation or abandonment of property and the void is filled by the the acquiring entity that follows in its place.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.
> 
> ◈   Up and until the Treaty of Westphalia (1648) the act of defeating an opposing State and occupying all or part of its territory with the intention of annexation was revisited.  Even in the wars that came after the Treaty of Westphailia, customary law pertaining to territory acquistion as a result of a Armed Conflict did not change.  For example, the Spanish-American War (1895), Puerto Rico and Guam were ceded; and Cuba became an American Protectorate.​Each of these issues is not fully completed and thought out concepts.  Thus the contemporary laws are confused in there interpretation and misapplied in others.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In the case of Israel, there was a pre planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of Israeli territory was acquired in this manner.

This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi

Slapping a soldier is an assault.

Shooting her cousin in the face is not.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

This is a question that has already been decided.



P F Tinmore said:


> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of Israeli territory was acquired in this manner.


*(COMMENT)*

There have been three knockdown, drag-out, fights between Israel and Arab Forces.

◈ 1948:  The conflict outcome was the establishment of the Jewish State.
✦  Jordan first occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
✦  Jordan later annexed the West Bank through a Parliamentary Process in which the Arab Palestinians participated.
✦  Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip.
✦  Egypt established a Military Governorship.​◈ 1967:  The conflict outcome was the prevention of Arab Control over Israel.
✦  Israel occupied the territroy first occupied by Jordan (the West Bank and East Jerusalem).
✦  Israel occupied the territroy first occupied by Egypt (the Gaza Strip).​◈  1973:  Israel successfully defends all territories from a third Arab League military expedition.

◈  Peace Treaties established between the Parties to the Conflict:
✦  1979:  Israel-Egypt new boundaries established.
✦  1994:  Israel-Jordan new boundaries established.​It should be noted that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the conflict and were not a party to the treaties _(having not lost any territory to the Israelis)_.

If there was a "military conquest and annexation" by the Israelis, it was not over Arab Palestinian controlled territory; but rather Egyptian and Jordanian territory.



P F Tinmore said:


> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.


*(COMMENT)*

The "right of return" was never made law.  It should be noted that:

◈  UN General Assembly Resolution 194 NOT LAW.
✦   Refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours.
✦   Compensation should be paid for the property of those.​◈  Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) NOT LAW.  *The UDHR is not binding*, thus Article 13(2) ("_Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country._") IS NOT BINDING; no matter how it is interpreted.  And, in the case of the "International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)" which IS BINDING, there is no equivalent Article.  *It was intentionally left out*.



			
				UN General Assembly's Third (Social said:
			
		

> Building on the achievements of the UDHR, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights *entered into force in 1976*. The two Covenants have developed *most of* the rights already enshrined in the UDHR, making them effectively binding on States that have ratified them.


Another point:

*Article 24 • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court •*
_Non-retroactivity ratione personae_

1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct *prior to the entry into force* of the Statute.

2. In the event of a change in the law applicable to a given case prior to a final judgement, the law more favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted shall apply.​NOTE:

Done at Rome on 17 July 1998, * in force on 1 July 2002*, United Nations, Treaty Series, vol. 2187, No. 38544, Depositary: Secretary-General of the United Nations, United Nations Treaty Collection.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> This is a question that has already been decided.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of Israeli territory was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There have been three knockdown, drag-out, fights between Israel and Arab Forces.
> 
> ◈ 1948:  The conflict outcome was the establishment of the Jewish State.
> ✦  Jordan first occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
> ✦  Jordan later annexed the West Bank through a Parliamentary Process in which the Arab Palestinians participated.
> ✦  Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip.
> ✦  Egypt established a Military Governorship.​◈ 1967:  The conflict outcome was the prevention of Arab Control over Israel.
> ✦  Israel occupied the territroy first occupied by Jordan (the West Bank and East Jerusalem).
> ✦  Israel occupied the territroy first occupied by Egypt (the Gaza Strip).​◈  1973:  Israel successfully defends all territories from a third Arab League military expedition.
> 
> ◈  Peace Treaties established between the Parties to the Conflict:
> ✦  1979:  Israel-Egypt new boundaries established.
> ✦  1994:  Israel-Jordan new boundaries established.​It should be noted that the Arab Palestinians were not a party to the conflict and were not a party to the treaties _(having not lost any territory to the Israelis)_.
> 
> If there was a "military conquest and annexation" by the Israelis, it was not over Arab Palestinian controlled territory; but rather Egyptian and Jordanian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "right of return" was never made law.  It should be noted that:
> 
> ◈  UN General Assembly Resolution 194 NOT LAW.
> ✦   Refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours.
> ✦   Compensation should be paid for the property of those.​◈  Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) NOT LAW.  *The UDHR is not binding*, thus Article 13(2) ("_Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country._") IS NOT BINDING; no matter how it is interpreted.  And, in the case of the "International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)" which IS BINDING, there is no equivalent Article.  *It was intentionally left out*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN General Assembly's Third (Social said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Building on the achievements of the UDHR, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights *entered into force in 1976*. The two Covenants have developed *most of* the rights already enshrined in the UDHR, making them effectively binding on States that have ratified them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another point:
> 
> *Article 24 • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court •*
> _Non-retroactivity ratione personae_
> 
> 1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct *prior to the entry into force* of the Statute.
> 
> 2. In the event of a change in the law applicable to a given case prior to a final judgement, the law more favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted shall apply.​NOTE:
> 
> Done at Rome on 17 July 1998, * in force on 1 July 2002*, United Nations, Treaty Series, vol. 2187, No. 38544, Depositary: Secretary-General of the United Nations, United Nations Treaty Collection.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

My statements are correct. The surrounding Arab countries have no bearing on them.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

You speak just like the shadows of every major guerrilla _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters) _since the time Spartacus, Crazy Horse, and Che Guevara.  Your language is nearly the same as all these losers expressed in the past.  And in the end, all of them lost. 



P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My statements are correct. The surrounding Arab countries have no bearing on them.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Your complaint is so far outside the box as to be certain that the Arab Palestinians, violent and corrupt as they are, will not be able to secure a reasonable or just outcome.  The Israelis did not take, by force, and disputed territory _(pertaining to the West Bank, Jerusalem, or the Gaza Strip)_ that has not negotiated and settled by Peace Treaty with the parties concerned _(Jordan, Egypt)_.  The Israelis came by the disputed territory as a result of combat outcomes and peace negotiations with these parties, which at the time, represented the Arab League and were acting on behalf _(as an agent)_ of the Arab Palestinian People. 

The inability of the Arab Palestinian People to act in a civilized manner (Posting #8116 --- Posting #362) in a form consistent with the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625 XXV) in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. 

Once again, as stated in Posting #362, the Arab Palestinians that believe and then carry-out the following (but not limited to) criminal acts, are in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention _(Arab Palestinians who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and:

◈  Rule #2:  Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I prohibits “acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population”.

◈  Rule #11:  The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I.

◈  Rule #21:  Each party to the conflict must do everything feasible to verify that targets are military objectives.

◈  Rule #23:  Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated area.

◈  Rule #24:  Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.

◈  Rule #84:  If incendiary weapons are used, particular care must be taken to avoid, and in any event to minimize, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.

◈  Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.

◈  Rule "152. Command Responsibility for Orders to Commit War Crimes​
It is also the case that it is Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts; as well as providing a safehouse for those involved in "criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  It is also prohibited for any person to unlawfully and intentionally deliver, place, discharge or detonate an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility. _ [See:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938); S/RES/1624 (2005);* *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism]_ 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Justice and only Justice--Dr. Sara Roy: Dispossessing Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> You speak just like the shadows of every major guerrilla _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters) _since the time Spartacus, Crazy Horse, and Che Guevara.  Your language is nearly the same as all these losers expressed in the past.  And in the end, all of them lost.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My statements are correct. The surrounding Arab countries have no bearing on them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your complaint is so far outside the box as to be certain that the Arab Palestinians, violent and corrupt as they are, will not be able to secure a reasonable or just outcome.  The Israelis did not take, by force, and disputed territory _(pertaining to the West Bank, Jerusalem, or the Gaza Strip)_ that has not negotiated and settled by Peace Treaty with the parties concerned _(Jordan, Egypt)_.  The Israelis came by the disputed territory as a result of combat outcomes and peace negotiations with these parties, which at the time, represented the Arab League and were acting on behalf _(as an agent)_ of the Arab Palestinian People.
> 
> The inability of the Arab Palestinian People to act in a civilized manner (Posting #8116 --- Posting #362) in a form consistent with the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625 XXV) in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
> 
> Once again, as stated in Posting #362, the Arab Palestinians that believe and then carry-out the following (but not limited to) criminal acts, are in violation of Article 68 of the Fourth Geneva Convention _(Arab Palestinians who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ and:
> 
> ◈  Rule #2:  Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I prohibits “acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population”.
> 
> ◈  Rule #11:  The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I.
> 
> ◈  Rule #21:  Each party to the conflict must do everything feasible to verify that targets are military objectives.
> 
> ◈  Rule #23:  Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated area.
> 
> ◈  Rule #24:  Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
> 
> ◈  Rule #84: If incendiary weapons are used, particular care must be taken to avoid, and in any event to minimize, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.
> 
> ◈  Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.
> 
> ◈  Rule "152. Command Responsibility for Orders to Commit War Crimes​
> It is also the case that it is Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts; as well as providing a safehouse for those involved in "criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  It is also prohibited for any person to unlawfully and intentionally deliver, place, discharge or detonate an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility. _ [See:  Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938); S/RES/1624 (2005);* *International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism]_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman!

How does that refute my post?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, _et al,_
> 
> Surrounding these many, many issues, are what we have come to realize are incomplete theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque, occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem.  Homeland of the Jewish people.  Occupied by invading cultures for 3000 years.  The only indigenous peoples to regain sovereignty over their traditional territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ONE CONCEPT:
> 
> ◈  One of these incomplete theories is the concept of "right of return" which is directly related and tethered to the concept of the "obligation to refugees."  We generalize these under the heading of "humanitarian law."   Contemporary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) began to be codified in the 19th Century (≈1864) with the enmergence of the the Geneva Convention.
> 
> ◈  The "right of return" is actually a transfer of an obligations from the burden of one political subdivision to another.  The obligation is base on the self-imposed redistribution of wealth → and → as a desire to promote the welfare of others → a measure of generousity as donation to a worthy causes.  It is a social advocation of help to those _(the refugee)_ in need; as a humanitarian act.​
> ANOTHER CONCEPT:
> 
> ◈  Another close entanglement is the tie between "territorial acquistion" and the "rights of the former inhabitance drive out by conflict."  This is actually a transfer of wealth in the form of land _(property generating revenue through commerce)_ and the production and consumption goods and services from the land.   These are yardsticks by which society measures the accumulation of wealth.
> 
> ◈  Refugees lose wealth in the vacation or abandonment of property and the void is filled by the the acquiring entity that follows in its place.  Territorial Sovereignty is the right of a State to exercise over its own territory, to the exclusion of any other States, the functions of a State.
> 
> ◈   Up and until the Treaty of Westphalia (1648) the act of defeating an opposing State and occupying all or part of its territory with the intention of annexation was revisited.  Even in the wars that came after the Treaty of Westphailia, customary law pertaining to territory acquistion as a result of a Armed Conflict did not change.  For example, the Spanish-American War (1895), Puerto Rico and Guam were ceded; and Cuba became an American Protectorate.​Each of these issues is not fully completed and thought out concepts.  Thus the contemporary laws are confused in there interpretation and misapplied in others.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of Israeli territory was acquired in this manner.
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
Click to expand...


Wrong again.    " International Law" states " Live at peace with their neighbors"                                    



The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that “refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.”

Fatah Logo Celebrating 48th Anniversary Erases Israel from Map

But please, Keep Pasting and Posting    

International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Each post was answered.



P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.

◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.

◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.

◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.

◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).

By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.

Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, _et al,_

Yes, I have to agree.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response


*(REFERENCE)*

Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Article 7j --- Apartheid

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;

Elements of Crimes
Article 7 (1) (j) Crime against humanity of apartheid

1. The perpetrator committed an inhumane act against one or more persons.
2. Such act was an act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute, or was an act of a character similar to any of those acts.
3. The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established the character of the act.
4. The conduct was committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups.
5. The perpetrator intended to maintain such regime by that conduct.
6. The conduct was committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.
7. The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population

*(COMMENT)*

I don't believe that Professor Richard Falk actually understands the intent and meaning of the Law which prohibits Apartheid.

The separation maintained by Israel is domestic border immigration and customs enforcement matter.  The Arab Palestinians are NOT denied access because they are Muslim; or because they are of a different race; or to maintain a regime.  They are denied simply because they are NOT citizens of the State of Israel.

Most countries, including every member of the UN Security Council, has a branch of government that maintains and enforces Immigration, Border Protection, and Customs policies.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
Click to expand...


Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.
Click to expand...


Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
 That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?” 
  Every time he posts I actually enjoy it


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
> That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?”
> Every time he posts I actually enjoy it
Click to expand...


Yes, you are right.  The PLO has said that the Western Wall would not be a part of Israel in a peace agreement, Gd forbid.  I googled it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
> That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?”
> Every time he posts I actually enjoy it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right.  The PLO has said that the Western Wall would not be a part of Israel in a peace agreement, Gd forbid.  I googled it.
Click to expand...


Ironically, according to “ International Law”Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to it but didn’t.  Ask Tinmore why the PLO is taking that stance and there will be no response
  I have been there and Israel is Never going to give it up


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
> That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?”
> Every time he posts I actually enjoy it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right.  The PLO has said that the Western Wall would not be a part of Israel in a peace agreement, Gd forbid.  I googled it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ironically, according to “ International Law”Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to it but didn’t.  Ask Tinmore why the PLO is taking that stance and there will be no response
> I have been there and Israel is Never going to give it up
Click to expand...


Even if we would have access to the Wall, that would not be enough.  The Old City would have to be a part of Israel.  It's enough that we would have to give up the tombs of our fathers and mothers.  Jerusalem is ours and we paid a high price for it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask why Israel is responsible for “ Apartheid “ with Abbas declaring “ No Israelis in Palestine” or the Jewish people not having access to the Western Wall and there will be no response
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did Abbas really say that Jewish ppl would not have access to the Western Wall in a Palestinian state,  just as it was under the Jordanians?  Link?  Because that's really shameful.  Furthermore, access would also have to be guaranteed to Abraham's, Rachel's and Joseph's Tombs, the latter having already been destroyed several times shamefully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
> That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?”
> Every time he posts I actually enjoy it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right.  The PLO has said that the Western Wall would not be a part of Israel in a peace agreement, Gd forbid.  I googled it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ironically, according to “ International Law”Jordan was supposed to let the Israelis have access to it but didn’t.  Ask Tinmore why the PLO is taking that stance and there will be no response
> I have been there and Israel is Never going to give it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if we would have access to the Wall, that would not be enough.  The Old City would have to be a part of Israel.  It's enough that we would have to give up the tombs of our fathers and mothers.  Jerusalem is ours and we paid a high price for it.
Click to expand...


I agree! However, that’s not my point. If they were so interested in achieving “ peace” why is this a demand ?    There will not be an answer which is why there will never be a “ Palestinian State’


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

There are actually two statements, made at different time that made similar _(but not quite the same)_ statement.



			
				Palestinian Authority [URL='https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-there-will-be-no-israelis-in-palestine/#']President[/URL] Mahmoud Abbas said:
			
		

> Even as talks for a permanent Israeli-Palestinian peace got off to a cautious start in Washington Monday, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in Egypt that no Israelis would be allowed to remain in a future Palestinian state.
> *SOURCE:* • *TIMES OF ISRAEL* •





			
				Abu Hamza •  Al-Quds Brigades • the military wing of the Iranian-funded Islamic Jihad said:
			
		

> Iran’s support for the Palestinian Islamic resistance seems to have entered a new phase, spokesman for Al-Quds Brigades said. Abu Hamza, spokesman for the Islamic Jihad military branch, expressed in an interview the power of fire and the destruction of the resistance in Gaza that it was interesting in its kind.
> *SOURCE:* • *IUVM PRESS* •





ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Google it. The PLO’s OFFICIAL POSITION is that The Jewish People have No Rights to the Western Wall. Haven’t heard Abbas condemn that.
> That would be true of ALL other Religious Sites, Has Tinmore condemned it? Of course not . Yet it’s Israel whose “ Apartheid?”
> Every time he posts I actually enjoy it


*(COMMENT)*

There is no question → but that statements were made.  Yet →  as usual, there is no one voice in the Arab Palestinian community in the disputed territories:

*• Mahmoud Abbas’ 'Judenrein' Palestine | Frontpage Mag •*
https://*www.frontpagemag.com*/fpm/264355/*mahmoud-abbas-judenrein-palestine*-joseph-puder
Oct 03, 2016 · The future State of Palestine, according to Abbas, *must resist any Jewish presence in its territory*. In other words, the PA embraces a racist policy – Palestinian apartheid – directed at Jews, based on the denial of Jewish history and the cultural and religious linkage of the Jewish people to the land.”​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, _et al,_

Yes, you've read them correctly.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I agree! However, that’s not my point. If they were so interested in achieving “ peace” why is this a demand?    There will not be an answer which is why there will never be a “ Palestinian State’


*(COMMENT)*

This is a bit of Political Fraud.  The Palestinians can start negotiations for peace just any time they want.  They don't want peace for a number of reasons.

It is the reason that the Palestinians would not participate in the Conference if the Israelis were there.  They did not want to be seen turning down an actual opportunity for negotiations for peace to be rejected in the light of day. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ForeverYoung436, et al,

Yes, at this point in the timeline, that is probably reasonable to assumption to make. 



ForeverYoung436 said:


> Even if we would have access to the Wall, that would not be enough.  The Old City would have to be a part of Israel.  It's enough that we would have to give up the tombs of our fathers and mothers.  Jerusalem is ours and we paid a high price for it.


*(COMMENT)*

But given a reasonable period of peace, into the next generation (or two), the new political conditions might very well open up newer opportunities.

However, the product that the Foreign Service Institute (FSI), Department of State (DOS) produces has not been very good at diplomacy and doesn't really enjoy any real successes.  THUS, it is probably not in the interest of any serious foreign policy representatives needing to discussion critical options to attempt to engage DOS.  While Secretary Pompeo is being entertained along a whistle-stop circuit _(Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan, India, Japan, and the Republic of Korea)_ six countries in six days (June 23-30), Jared Kushner _(an senior advisor w/o portfolio)_ is the driver in terms of foreign policy.

There is no reasonable expectation that DOS Diplomacy will have any significant impact on the settlement in the Middle East.  Both the US Diplomatic Community and the US Intelligence Community have lost a lot of confidence in their ability around the world. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinians ramp up arson attacks, ignite 24 fires in Israel

Israel should just Carpet Bomb them


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> Each post was answered.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of Israel, there was a pre-planned and executed elimination of the Palestinians by military attacks on the civilian population. This was a military conquest and annexation of Palestine. All of the Israeli territories was acquired in this manner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was a violation of the Palestinian's inalienable rights as were enumerated in subsequent UN resolutions. The right to return is one of these enumerated rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!
> 
> How does that refute my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This pre-planned accusation → you state is just an open accusation.  So it is answered in the same fashion.
> 
> ◈  It does not take into consideration that Peace Terms put an end to that.
> 
> ◈  It does not give any specifics or pin down any time frame during the last seven decades, for me  to give any specific answer.​
> You do not cite any specific right match:  violation of a specific law that has been violated.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite the law pertaining to the rights in question.
> 
> ◈  You do not cite an authority for the violent actions enumerated to secure these undefine "legal" rights.​
> As near as I can tell, you are indirectly pointing to the "right-of-return."  The lawlessness on the part of the Arab Palestinians who seem to have this same trouble as you → in articulating the supposed "right" by law, is just a "smoke screen" for the criminal activity (as stated).
> 
> By making these unsubstantiated and poorly articulated claims, and then yelling "smoke screen" is only an ineffective way to justification.
> 
> Remember, that  Israel was created in the spirit of the Mandate and A/RES/181 (II), and the right of self-determination of the Jewish People.  And Israel has been defending their state against Arab League aggression in the spirit of the laws over three wars and two Intifada and seven decades of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.  All justified by this "right" which was clearly itten out of the law.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

 You are still side stepping my post.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

No --- I don't think so...



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still side stepping my post.


*(COMMENT)*

You make a point on the basis that Israel was established by force and taking it from the Palestinians.  I think that is a misrepresentation of the facts..  And I explained why.

AND

While it is not enshrined in International Law, the Arab Palestinians should not be able to profit through the application of criminal behaviors, holding "peace" at ransom.  The Arab Palestinians may not use armed struggle with peace negotiations as a hostage.  That is coercion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> Yes, at this point in the timeline, that is probably reasonable to assumption to make.
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we would have access to the Wall, that would not be enough.  The Old City would have to be a part of Israel.  It's enough that we would have to give up the tombs of our fathers and mothers.  Jerusalem is ours and we paid a high price for it.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But given a reasonable period of peace, into the next generation (or two), the new political conditions might very well open up newer opportunities.
> 
> However, the product that the Foreign Service Institute (FSI), Department of State (DOS) produces has not been very good at diplomacy and doesn't really enjoy any real successes.  THUS, it is probably not in the interest of any serious foreign policy representatives needing to discussion critical options to attempt to engage DOS.  While Secretary Pompeo is being entertained along a whistle-stop circuit _(Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan, India, Japan, and the Republic of Korea)_ six countries in six days (June 23-30), Jared Kushner _(an senior advisor w/o portfolio)_ is the driver in terms of foreign policy.
> 
> There is no reasonable expectation that DOS Diplomacy will have any significant impact on the settlement in the Middle East.  Both the US Diplomatic Community and the US Intelligence Community have lost a lot of confidence in their ability around the world.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still dancing around my post.


RoccoR said:


> There is no reasonable expectation that DOS Diplomacy will have any significant impact on the settlement in the Middle East. Both the US Diplomatic Community and the US Intelligence Community have lost a lot of confidence in their ability around the world.


Indeed.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Ropey said:


>


“ Palestine” is and will always be just a territory.  Many of your questions I have also asked and of course there is no response .  Ask why there wasn’t an Independent “ Palestinian “ Country before 1967 and there will be no response


----------



## Mindful

*A Slice of (Cake) Life in “Concentration Camp” Gaza*
By
Aussie Dave
 -
June 30, 2019
336
Welcome to Gaza, the only “concentration camp”/”open-air prison” where inmates can tour its own cake factory.

Warning: Scenes of miserable people.

branches of Mazajcoffee shop and restaurants.

Warning: Food p0rn.


:Gazans  claiming they are suffering inhumane conditions while living relatively normal lives (when their terrorist overlords aren’t bringing destruction upon them). Talk about trying to have your cake and eat it.

Hat tip: Imshin

A Slice of (Cake) Life in 'Concentration Camp' Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Liz Cheney Goes After Rashida Tlaib on Twitter w/ Lies! Here's the Video Evidence to Prove it!*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Liz Cheney Goes After Rashida Tlaib on Twitter w/ Lies! Here's the Video Evidence to Prove it!*
> 
> **


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Liz Cheney Goes After Rashida Tlaib on Twitter w/ Lies! Here's the Video Evidence to Prove it!*
> 
> **





Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

  It depends on what the definition of " liar" is. She says one thing knowing that is not the long term goal of the PLO, They have made it very clear; they want everything except equality and I don't believe she is ignorant enough not to understand that   Keep  posting


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

U.S. condemns Palestinian claim that Western Wall 'isn't Jewish'

In her " civilized" and " equal" world she sees nothing wrong with this either. That is never going to happen again




OMG !  Orthodox and Hasidic Jews !     Call Hamas to the rescue


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib Slams Endless War Budget In Fiery Tweet*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Scholars: Noura Erakat*

**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

From one generation to another


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I’ll rise."


----------



## P F Tinmore

We will never forget Palestinian medic Mohammed Al-Jidily, 36, who was slaughtered by Israeli occupation militias as he helped Palestinian marchers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Grieving father and grandfather sits on the remains of his home after it was demolished by the Israeli occupation forces in al-Khalil.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> We will never forget Palestinian medic Mohammed Al-Jidily, 36, who was slaughtered by Israeli occupation militias as he helped Palestinian marchers.



I think you mean the Palestinian rioters. Keep Posting !


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel is a terror state.
No War.

Code Pink rocks!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is a terror state.
> No War.
> 
> Code Pink rocks!



The same group that DEMANDS we close


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel is a terror state.
> No War.
> 
> Code Pink rocks!



The same group that DEMANDS we shut down Guantonomo Bay among other things. No sympathy for our Military ; only the enemy. That explains their position. 
 They “ rock?”  Typical Pro Palestinian mentality


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



She's a mess.  Talks with emphasis about nothing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Heartbreaking. Mother of the Palestinian martyr Mohammed Obaid hugs his shirt which he was wearing when he was shot by the Israeli occupation forces in Jerusalem a few days ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza port


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Eid vibes in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine flag seen at London's anti-Trump protest.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian family celebrating Eid in al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mobilizing the Grassroots Workshop (Part 1: Loubna Qutami)*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually, the IMEU site claims only 265 "violent attacks carried out by Jewish settlers against Palestinians and their property" in 2018.

There is no information about what is considered an "attack" or the sources.  


In contrast:

Attacks against Israeli citizens (2018):  22 stabbings, 33 shootings, 13 car attacks, 2057 stone-throwing attacks, 1119 rockets, and half of the forests near Gaza burned due to incendiary balloon attacks.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.



Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?
Click to expand...

So, who would harm them?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who would harm them?
Click to expand...


Actually, if you look at Said Khatib's twitter feed, he has several photos of this "medic" carrying several young boys, all apparently unconscious or sleeping or faking something, with no actual injuries.  I suppose it could be tear gas inhalation.  

Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence, mixed in with others, including those appearing to threaten or provoke Israeli soldiers not far away.  There are also many photographs of various attempts at attacks, including stone-throwers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who would harm them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, if you look at Said Khatib's twitter feed, he has several photos of this "medic" carrying several young boys, all apparently unconscious or sleeping or faking something, with no actual injuries.  I suppose it could be tear gas inhalation.
> 
> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence, mixed in with others, including those appearing to threaten or provoke Israeli soldiers not far away.  There are also many photographs of various attempts at attacks, including stone-throwers.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence,


IOW, in Gaza.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who would harm them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, if you look at Said Khatib's twitter feed, he has several photos of this "medic" carrying several young boys, all apparently unconscious or sleeping or faking something, with no actual injuries.  I suppose it could be tear gas inhalation.
> 
> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence, mixed in with others, including those appearing to threaten or provoke Israeli soldiers not far away.  There are also many photographs of various attempts at attacks, including stone-throwers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, in Gaza.
Click to expand...


But threatening to break down the fence like absolute lunatics, with the stated intention of murdering Jews on the other side.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Braving the threat of Israeli live fire, an exhausted medic evacuates a wounded child in Gaza's Great March of Return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why was the child put in harm's way by Palestinian adults who should know better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, who would harm them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, if you look at Said Khatib's twitter feed, he has several photos of this "medic" carrying several young boys, all apparently unconscious or sleeping or faking something, with no actual injuries.  I suppose it could be tear gas inhalation.
> 
> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence, mixed in with others, including those appearing to threaten or provoke Israeli soldiers not far away.  There are also many photographs of various attempts at attacks, including stone-throwers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Other photographs show a number of young boys in VERY close proximity to the security fence,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, in Gaza.
Click to expand...



Close enough to the security fence to pose a real threat.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis






OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)

Two Palestinian kids suffered bullet injuries on Wednesday evening when the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) stormed Abu Dis town, east of Jerusalem, and attacked citizens.

The Red Crescent said its ambulance crews provided medical assistance to two children under age 15 after they were wounded by live ammunition in Abu Dis.

According to local sources, dozens of citizens suffered from their exposure to tear gas fumes during violent clashes broke out with Israeli soldiers in Abu Dis.

  Read more at 
Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nabi Yamin shrine: Witness to Palestine's history


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Nabi Yamin shrine: Witness to Palestine's history



It says in the article that the settlers are working day and night to alter and change the history and character of al-Khalil and Nablus.  Nablus is the only ancient city in the West Bank without a Hebrew name.  Nablus is the Arabic corruption of the Roman Neapolis.  (Arabs can't pronounce the letter P.)  In what way are the settlers trying to alter the character of Nablus?  Is it by rebuilding Joseph's Tomb that the Arabs have destroyed many times?  Hebron is called al-Khalil by the Arabs.  Both names mean "Friend" in Hebrew and Arabic, respectively, but it was called Hebron first.  In what way are the settlers trying to alter Hebron's history?  By allowing both Jews and Arabs to pray at Abraham's Tomb?  Before 1967, Arabs forbade the Jews from praying there for 700 years.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nabi Yamin shrine: Witness to Palestine's history
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says in the article that the settlers are working day and night to alter and change the history and character of al-Khalil and Nablus.  Nablus is the only ancient city in the West Bank without a Hebrew name.  Nablus is the Arabic corruption of the Roman Neapolis.  (Arabs can't pronounce the letter P.)  In what way are the settlers trying to alter the character of Nablus?  Is it by rebuilding Joseph's Tomb that the Arabs have destroyed many times?  Hebron is called al-Khalil by the Arabs.  Both names mean "Friend" in Hebrew and Arabic, respectively, but it was called Hebron first.  In what way are the settlers trying to alter Hebron's history?  By allowing both Jews and Arabs to pray at Abraham's Tomb?  Before 1967, Arabs forbade the Jews from praying there for 700 years.
Click to expand...


It also says that the shrine of Nabi Yamin is neglected by the Ministry of Tourism for Palestine.  Whose fault is that?  It seems to be under their control.  Nabi Yamin seems to be a shrine for Benjamin, Joseph's younger brother.  (It's not clear from the article whether it is Benjamin's actual tomb.)  Benjamin is an important figure in Judaism as well.  The Arabs should be grateful that the Jews don't demand sharing rights to this shrine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)
> 
> Two Palestinian kids suffered bullet injuries on Wednesday evening when the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) stormed Abu Dis town, east of Jerusalem, and attacked citizens.
> 
> The Red Crescent said its ambulance crews provided medical assistance to two children under age 15 after they were wounded by live ammunition in Abu Dis.
> 
> According to local sources, dozens of citizens suffered from their exposure to tear gas fumes during violent clashes broke out with Israeli soldiers in Abu Dis.
> 
> Read more at
> Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center




Perhaps parents should ensure children are not present during violent clashes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:      Palestine Today
•••→  A Palestinian Fish Story:  Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
⁜→     P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I don't have to know anything more about the story, beyond the first sentence here.   It certainly does not pass the "Smell Test."  It stinks to high heaven.



P F Tinmore said:


> OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)
> 
> Two Palestinian kids suffered bullet injuries on Wednesday evening when the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) stormed Abu Dis town, east of Jerusalem, and attacked citizens.
> 
> The Red Crescent said its ambulance crews provided medical assistance to two children under age 15 after they were wounded by live ammunition in Abu Dis.
> 
> According to local sources, dozens of citizens suffered from their exposure to tear gas fumes during violent clashes broke out with Israeli soldiers in Abu Dis.
> 
> Read more at
> Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


*(COMMENT)*

Obviously, if this is not  → totally a fabricated story → then it must be one that has been manipulated and altered for Arab Palestinian exploitation purposes.

_BTW:  A "Bean Bag," a "Thumper Slug," and "Rubber Bullets" (while in a class of "live ammunition") are still "LESS THAN-LETHAL AMMUNITION."_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nabi Yamin shrine: Witness to Palestine's history



The author has some nerve saying:  _while Israeli settlers work day and night to alter their history and take them over_


Alter their history?!  By acknowledging their Jewish origins?!


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:      Palestine Today
> •••→  A Palestinian Fish Story:  Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> ⁜→     P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I don't have to know anything more about the story, beyond the first sentence here.   It certainly does not pass the "Smell Test."  It stinks to high heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)
> 
> Two Palestinian kids suffered bullet injuries on Wednesday evening when the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) stormed Abu Dis town, east of Jerusalem, and attacked citizens.
> 
> The Red Crescent said its ambulance crews provided medical assistance to two children under age 15 after they were wounded by live ammunition in Abu Dis.
> 
> According to local sources, dozens of citizens suffered from their exposure to tear gas fumes during violent clashes broke out with Israeli soldiers in Abu Dis.
> 
> Read more at
> Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Obviously, if this is not  → totally a fabricated story → then it must be one that has been manipulated and altered for Arab Palestinian exploitation purposes.
> 
> _BTW:  A "Bean Bag," a "Thumper Slug," and "Rubber Bullets" (while in a class of "live ammunition") are still "LESS THAN-LETHAL AMMUNITION."_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



I've found this on slightly more reliable news sources.  Seems Israeli LEOs made some arrests and were attacked while performing their duties.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:      Palestine Today
•••→  A Palestinian Fish Story:  Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
⁜→     Shusha, P F Tinmore, _et al,_

Thanks very much.  I looked at the picture posted with the caption and noticed that they were outfitted like Isreali Border Police.  Usually if you see them with a plexiglass visor, they are police.



Shusha said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:      Palestine Today
> •••→  A Palestinian Fish Story:  Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> ⁜→     P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I don't have to know anything more about the story, beyond the first sentence here.   It certainly does not pass the "Smell Test."  It stinks to high heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)
> 
> Two Palestinian kids suffered bullet injuries on Wednesday evening when the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) stormed Abu Dis town, east of Jerusalem, and attacked citizens.
> 
> The Red Crescent said its ambulance crews provided medical assistance to two children under age 15 after they were wounded by live ammunition in Abu Dis.
> 
> According to local sources, dozens of citizens suffered from their exposure to tear gas fumes during violent clashes broke out with Israeli soldiers in Abu Dis.
> 
> Read more at
> Two Palestinian kids wounded by Israeli gunfire in Abu Dis
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Obviously, if this is not  → totally a fabricated story → then it must be one that has been manipulated and altered for Arab Palestinian exploitation purposes.
> 
> _BTW:  A "Bean Bag," a "Thumper Slug," and "Rubber Bullets" (while in a class of "live ammunition") are still "LESS THAN-LETHAL AMMUNITION."_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've found this on slightly more reliable news sources.  Seems Israeli LEOs made some arrests and were attacked while performing their duties.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yeah I thought there would be more to the story.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

March of Return event on its 63rd week

Photos.


----------



## P F Tinmore

15 YEAR OLD SHOT IN BOTH FEET IS #HANDCUFFED TO HOSPITAL BED  Why is his left hand handcuffed to the hospital bed when he is completely immobile⁉️


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






CHECKMATE!    It's your turn


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

He should hold his breath until it happens


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel prevents Palestinian children Yamen & Mohammed Arja from visiting their Captive father in prison under pretext "security concerns.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



In other posts and pictures, you show Gazans at pools and at horse-riding competitions.  Only the privileged can participate in horse-riding competitions.  Make up your mind.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
Click to expand...

There is already one state and Israel has made the two state solution impossible.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two state solution impossible.
Click to expand...





Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

Another lie; Keep posting!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two state solution impossible.
Click to expand...



Why is the two-state solution impossible?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the two-state solution impossible?
Click to expand...





Why?  THIS is the Reason


PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall

Here's another one.  This is just for starters   Look at my prior post. That says it all


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the two-state solution impossible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  THIS is the Reason
> 
> 
> PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall
> 
> Here's another one.  This is just for starters   Look at my prior post. That says it all
Click to expand...


How does this prevent a two-state solution?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel prevents Palestinian children Yamen & Mohammed Arja from visiting their Captive father in prison under pretext "security concerns.



Their father Wael Arja?  The terrorist who killed a man and his son in a stone-throwing attack?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




If you can't look at these two photos are recognize blind, unsubstantiated, antisemitic propaganda, you are insane.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> 15 YEAR OLD SHOT IN BOTH FEET IS #HANDCUFFED TO HOSPITAL BED  Why is his left hand handcuffed to the hospital bed when he is completely immobile⁉️



Information on this incident is VERY scare (limited to a single source).

It appears this young man was part of the attacks on LEOs in the process of making arrests a couple of days ago.  The attacks were serious enough that LEOs were forced to use live fire when tear gas did not disperse the attackers.  

This young man would appear to be under arrest for acts of violence.  He is under guard at the hospital during his recovery.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.

BLUF:  No*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events. 



			
				The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
			
		

> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.



On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:

◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).

◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
> It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).


The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
> It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
Click to expand...





   The Creation of Israel that the U,N. approved of had no legitimacy?  Then their demand Israel go back to borders that were NOT recognized as part of " Palestine" is illegitimate. Thanks for posting


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.



National self-determination is, by DEFINITION, unilateral.  The legitimacy comes in the fulfillment of the requirements for sovereignty and through recognition.  Israel was recognized, unofficially, in 1917 and officially in 1949.  

Get.  Over.  It.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National self-determination is, by DEFINITION, unilateral.  The legitimacy comes in the fulfillment of the requirements for sovereignty and through recognition.  Israel was recognized, unofficially, in 1917 and officially in 1949.
> 
> Get.  Over.  It.
Click to expand...


He can't and never will...…………….


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

You want this (terribly) to be true.  And you are certainly entitled to speak your mind and let you opinion known.  But, you have not intitled to your own facts.


			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> On November 29, 1947, The UN General Assembly voted to partition the British mandate into Jewish and Arab states. The Arabs of Palestine, supported by the Arab League, adamantly opposed the partition, and the first of four major wars began following news of the UN vote. The first war of 1947–1949 contains two identifiably separate conflicts: the Arab-Jewish communal war of November 30, 1947–May 14, 1948, which included volunteer forces from other Arab states as well as Palestinian Arabs, and the Israeli War of Independence, which began on May 15, 1948, a day after the ending of the British mandate and with the founding of the State of Israel.



——   ——​​

			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> In August 1947 the UN recommended granting Palestine its independence. The UN also developed a plan for partitioning Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states. Jerusalem was to be classified as an international area under the UN in order to preclude conflict over its status. Although the Arab population in Palestine
> was then 1.2 million people and the Jews numbered just 600,000, the UN plan granted the proposed Jewish state some 55 percent of the land and the Arab state only 45 percent. The Arab states rejected the partition plan, which included an economic union. The Jews generally accepted it. The UN General Assembly approved the plan in November 1947, and the British government announced that it would accept the UN recommendation and declared that the British Mandate for Palestine would end on May 15, 1948.





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Did you mean Palestine"
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*



			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> The 1948 war began following the announcement of the UN General Assembly’s endorsement of Resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, calling for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. While Jewish authorities in Palestine accepted the resolution, the Arabs—including the Palestinians and the Arab League—
> rejected it. In response to the passage of the UN resolution, Arabs began attacking Jews throughout Palestine, and the incidents expanded so that from December 1947 to April or May 1948 an intercommunal war raged between Jewish and Arab residents of Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Your insistence and hang-up on the existence/implementation or non-exsistance/non-implementation of A/RES/181 (II) make no difference to the discussion in that the violence that the Arab Community based its justification upon began before the first meeting of the UN Palestine Commission which began the implementation process.

◈  The use by the following the recommendations in Resolution 181 (II) • Israeli use of self-determination (15 May 1948) • and and the intercommunal war (December 1947 to April or May 1948) are all related, but in different ways.

◈  The Resolution 181 (II) contained the Step Preparatory to Independence.  The Resolution itself did not grant independence, but representedone step closer on the path towards independence.  Yet it created conflict.

◈  The Intercommunal War (December 1947 to April or May 1948) was triggered by the adoption of the Resolution.​The Declaration of Independence was a product of following Resolution 181 (II).  This was one-half of the equation to the 1948- Israeli War of Independence.  The continuation of the conflict to past November 1988 and the recognition of Arab Palestinian Independence cannot be justifiably based in the Resolution, as it was one of the elements used to justify independence.

Most Respectfully,
R​[/INDENT][/INDENT]


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

You want this (terribly) to be true.  And you are certainly entitled to speak your mind and let you opinion known.  But, you have not intitled to your own facts.


			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> On November 29, 1947, The UN General Assembly voted to partition the British mandate into Jewish and Arab states. The Arabs of Palestine, supported by the Arab League, adamantly opposed the partition, and the first of four major wars began following news of the UN vote. The first war of 1947–1949 contains two identifiably separate conflicts: the Arab-Jewish communal war of November 30, 1947–May 14, 1948, which included volunteer forces from other Arab states as well as Palestinian Arabs, and the Israeli War of Independence, which began on May 15, 1948, a day after the ending of the British mandate and with the founding of the State of Israel.



——   ——​

			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> In August 1947 the UN recommended granting Palestine its independence. The UN also developed a plan for partitioning Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states. Jerusalem was to be classified as an international area under the UN in order to preclude conflict over its status. Although the Arab population in Palestine
> was then 1.2 million people and the Jews numbered just 600,000, the UN plan granted the proposed Jewish state some 55 percent of the land and the Arab state only 45 percent. The Arab states rejected the partition plan, which included an economic union. The Jews generally accepted it. The UN General Assembly approved the plan in November 1947, and the British government announced that it would accept the UN recommendation and declared that the British Mandate for Palestine would end on May 15, 1948.





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Did you mean Palestine"
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
> It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*



			
				THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
			
		

> The 1948 war began following the announcement of the UN General Assembly’s endorsement of Resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, calling for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. While Jewish authorities in Palestine accepted the resolution, the Arabs—including the Palestinians and the Arab League—
> rejected it. In response to the passage of the UN resolution, Arabs began attacking Jews throughout Palestine, and the incidents expanded so that from December 1947 to April or May 1948 an intercommunal war raged between Jewish and Arab residents of Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Your insistence and hang-up on the existence/implementation or non-exsistance/non-implementation of A/RES/181 (II) make no difference to the discussion in that the violence that the Arab Community based its justification upon began before the first meeting of the UN Palestine Commission which began the implementation process.

◈  The use by the following the recommendations in Resolution 181 (II) • Israeli use of self-determination (15 May 1948) • and and the intercommunal war (December 1947 to April or May 1948) are all related, but in different ways.

◈  The Resolution 181 (II) contained the Step Preparatory to Independence.  The Resolution itself did not grant independence, but representedone step closer on the path towards independence.  Yet it created conflict.

◈  The Intercommunal War (December 1947 to April or May 1948) was triggered by the adoption of the Resolution.​The Declaration of Independence was a product of following Resolution 181 (II).  This was one-half of the equation to the 1948- Israeli War of Independence.  The continuation of the conflict to past November 1988 and the recognition of Arab Palestinian Independence cannot be justifiably based in the Resolution, as it was one of the elements used to justify independence.
​Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
> It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Creation of Israel that the U,N. approved of had no legitimacy?  Then their demand Israel go back to borders that were NOT recognized as part of " Palestine" is illegitimate. Thanks for posting
Click to expand...




Israel's Foreign Affairs Min.

An Israeli propaganda site.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> You want this (terribly) to be true.  And you are certainly entitled to speak your mind and let you opinion known.  But, you have not intitled to your own facts.
> 
> 
> 
> THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On November 29, 1947, The UN General Assembly voted to partition the British mandate into Jewish and Arab states. The Arabs of Palestine, supported by the Arab League, adamantly opposed the partition, and the first of four major wars began following news of the UN vote. The first war of 1947–1949 contains two identifiably separate conflicts: the Arab-Jewish communal war of November 30, 1947–May 14, 1948, which included volunteer forces from other Arab states as well as Palestinian Arabs, and the Israeli War of Independence, which began on May 15, 1948, a day after the ending of the British mandate and with the founding of the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ——   ——​
> 
> 
> THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In August 1947 the UN recommended granting Palestine its independence. The UN also developed a plan for partitioning Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states. Jerusalem was to be classified as an international area under the UN in order to preclude conflict over its status. Although the Arab population in Palestine
> was then 1.2 million people and the Jews numbered just 600,000, the UN plan granted the proposed Jewish state some 55 percent of the land and the Arab state only 45 percent. The Arab states rejected the partition plan, which included an economic union. The Jews generally accepted it. The UN General Assembly approved the plan in November 1947, and the British government announced that it would accept the UN recommendation and declared that the British Mandate for Palestine would end on May 15, 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, of course, the simplest answer is usually the most correct answer.
> 
> BLUF:  No*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Did you mean Palestine"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not opposed to there being both.  Two separate states for 2 separate peoples.  Enough of this childishness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is already one state and Israel has made the two-state solution impossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The thought that _"Israel has made the two-state solution impossible"_ is totally incorrect and a case of refusing to accept the reality of events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN Publication • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations • Pages 9 and 10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *•  The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949  •*
> 
> On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On that day Mid-Night 14/15 May 1948, there were two entities:
> 
> ◈  The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> ◈  The rejected allocation of the Arab State that was subsequently overrun by action of the Arab League.​
> It was the Arab Higher Committee and the warlike act of aggression by Arab Force that disrupted the two-state solution and through a cascade of events, leads the region to the condition we have today.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The Declared State of Israel → through the Right of Self-determination → following the recommendation of A/RES/181(II).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move that had nothing to do with Resolution 181. There was no legitimacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT • A Political - Social and Military History • ABC-CLIO Publishing Company • LLC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 war began following the announcement of the UN General Assembly’s endorsement of Resolution 181 on November 29, 1947, calling for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states. While Jewish authorities in Palestine accepted the resolution, the Arabs—including the Palestinians and the Arab League—
> rejected it. In response to the passage of the UN resolution, Arabs began attacking Jews throughout Palestine, and the incidents expanded so that from December 1947 to April or May 1948 an intercommunal war raged between Jewish and Arab residents of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your insistence and hang-up on the existence/implementation or non-exsistance/non-implementation of A/RES/181 (II) make no difference to the discussion in that the violence that the Arab Community based its justification upon began before the first meeting of the UN Palestine Commission which began the implementation process.
> 
> ◈  The use by the following the recommendations in Resolution 181 (II) • Israeli use of self-determination (15 May 1948) • and and the intercommunal war (December 1947 to April or May 1948) are all related, but in different ways.
> 
> ◈  The Resolution 181 (II) contained the Step Preparatory to Independence.  The Resolution itself did not grant independence, but representedone step closer on the path towards independence.  Yet it created conflict.
> 
> ◈  The Intercommunal War (December 1947 to April or May 1948) was triggered by the adoption of the Resolution.​The Declaration of Independence was a product of following Resolution 181 (II).  This was one-half of the equation to the 1948- Israeli War of Independence.  The continuation of the conflict to past November 1988 and the recognition of Arab Palestinian Independence cannot be justifiably based in the Resolution, as it was one of the elements used to justify independence.
> ​Most Respectfully,
> R​
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Declaration of Independence was a product of following Resolution 181


“Partition and independence—Palestine within its present borders, following a *transitional period of two years *from 1 September 1947, shall be constituted into an independent Arab State, an independent Jewish State, *and the City of Jerusalem.*..“Independence shall be granted to each State upon its request *only after it has adopted a constitution *... has made to the United Nations a declaration containing certain guarantees, and has signed a treaty creating the Economic Union of Palestine and establishing a system of collaboration between the two States and the City of Jerusalem.*“Citizenship—Palestinian citizens, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine, shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident ...*​
What part of this was followed?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.

Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> What part of this was followed?


*(COMMENT)*

I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.

When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.

When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel declared independence in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In every effective piece of propaganda, there is a bit of truth.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel declared independence in Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

In May 1948, the meaning of the word Palestine changed.

◈  Prior to mid-night, 14/15 May 1948  Palestine meant one of two things.

•  The Government of Palestine, under the Administration of the British Government.

•  The limits within the territories under the Palestine Order in Council and to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. This was short-titled described as "Palestine."​
◈  After mid-night, 14/15 May 1948:

•  In the "Regional Context" the term Palestine began to revert to the general description of the territory which the Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title.

•  In the Agreement between the Government of Palestine and Syria (1923), the intent of the agreement included:  Paragraph 4. "In this agreement the term "Palestine" shall include Transjordania, and the Government of Syria agrees to establish bonded stores in Damascus to deal with goods breaking bulk in that town in transit for Transjordania."

•  The term "Palestine," much later, began to mean the territories that were occupied by the Arab Forces _(Egypt and Jordan)_.

•  Today, the term Palestine means, within the Negotiations context, June 4th 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line.​
The term (Palestine) is now an Ambiguous "Term."  Its use must be clearly understood.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
Click to expand...



The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people. 

Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people. 

Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory. 

There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure what this is and why it is posted.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

From what little I see here, the suspect appears to be resisting arrest. 

•  The suspect _(I think)_ is screaming "I'm a Jew." 
•  We see what → we assume → are Israeli Police. 
•  They roll the suspect over. 
•  And the Officers _(we assume)_ are handcuffing the suspect.​
Do we know more then that?  What is the intent of the video and why is it posted here?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In every effective piece of propaganda, there is a bit of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In May 1948, the meaning of the word Palestine changed.
> 
> ◈  Prior to mid-night, 14/15 May 1948  Palestine meant one of two things.
> 
> •  The Government of Palestine, under the Administration of the British Government.
> 
> •  The limits within the territories under the Palestine Order in Council and to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. This was short-titled described as "Palestine."​
> ◈  After mid-night, 14/15 May 1948:
> 
> •  In the "Regional Context" the term Palestine began to revert to the general description of the territory which the Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title.
> 
> •  In the Agreement between the Government of Palestine and Syria (1923), the intent of the agreement included:  Paragraph 4. "In this agreement the term "Palestine" shall include Transjordania, and the Government of Syria agrees to establish bonded stores in Damascus to deal with goods breaking bulk in that town in transit for Transjordania."
> 
> •  The term "Palestine," much later, began to mean the territories that were occupied by the Arab Forces _(Egypt and Jordan)_.
> 
> •  Today, the term Palestine means, within the Negotiations context, June 4th 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line.​
> The term (Palestine) is now an Ambiguous "Term."  Its use must be clearly understood.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> • Today, the term Palestine means, within the Negotiations context, June 4th 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line.


The armistice lines are not borders. they do not define anything.

Anyone who uses them is a propagandist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.


IOW, apartheid.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Funny you should say that.  I entirely agree with you.



P F Tinmore said:


> The armistice lines are not borders. they do not define anything.
> 
> Anyone who uses them is a propagandist.


*(REFERENCE)*
 
Summary 
The delineation and demarcation of agreed upon borders are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution.


 
*(COMMENT)*

But I suspect that NOT all Arab Palestinians agree with you.  

*•  Mahmoud Abbas Speaks to Israelis, the West and Palestinians by C. Jacob  •*
The PA’s official positions in the negotiations with Israel were delivered by the president’s spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeineh. He said that the principles serving as the basis for any solution were stated in a letter from ‘Abbas that was delivered to President Obama by John Kerry, and they are:

– The borders of the Palestinian state are the 1967 borders. Israel must withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupied in 1967. The withdrawal can be carried out gradually over 3-4 years.

– East Jerusalem is the capital of the Palestinian state.

– Resolving the refugee problem based on UN resolutions and the Saudi initiative – a just and agreed-upon solution based on Resolution 194.

– The PLO recognized Israel and therefore there is no reason to recognize it as a Jewish state.​
How many official positions are there on the Arab Palestinian side of the equation?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Funny you should say that.  I entirely agree with you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The armistice lines are not borders. they do not define anything.
> 
> Anyone who uses them is a propagandist.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> View attachment 268139
> Summary
> The delineation and demarcation of agreed upon borders are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution.
> View attachment 268141
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But I suspect that NOT all Arab Palestinians agree with you.
> 
> *•  Mahmoud Abbas Speaks to Israelis, the West and Palestinians by C. Jacob  •*
> The PA’s official positions in the negotiations with Israel were delivered by the president’s spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeineh. He said that the principles serving as the basis for any solution were stated in a letter from ‘Abbas that was delivered to President Obama by John Kerry, and they are:
> 
> – The borders of the Palestinian state are the 1967 borders. Israel must withdraw from all Palestinian territories occupied in 1967. The withdrawal can be carried out gradually over 3-4 years.
> 
> – East Jerusalem is the capital of the Palestinian state.
> 
> – Resolving the refugee problem based on UN resolutions and the Saudi initiative – a just and agreed-upon solution based on Resolution 194.
> 
> – The PLO recognized Israel and therefore there is no reason to recognize it as a Jewish state.​
> How many official positions are there on the Arab Palestinian side of the equation?
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Well, the political elites don't make much sense.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
Click to expand...


To Jews, the entire area has been known as Eretz Yisrael since ancient times.  The areas are called Israel and/or Judea in the Bible (including the Christian New Testament).


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In every effective piece of propaganda, there is a bit of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In May 1948, the meaning of the word Palestine changed.
> 
> ◈  Prior to mid-night, 14/15 May 1948  Palestine meant one of two things.
> 
> •  The Government of Palestine, under the Administration of the British Government.
> 
> •  The limits within the territories under the Palestine Order in Council and to which the Mandate for Palestine applied. This was short-titled described as "Palestine."​
> ◈  After mid-night, 14/15 May 1948:
> 
> •  In the "Regional Context" the term Palestine began to revert to the general description of the territory which the Turkish Republic renounces all rights and title.
> 
> •  In the Agreement between the Government of Palestine and Syria (1923), the intent of the agreement included:  Paragraph 4. "In this agreement the term "Palestine" shall include Transjordania, and the Government of Syria agrees to establish bonded stores in Damascus to deal with goods breaking bulk in that town in transit for Transjordania."
> 
> •  The term "Palestine," much later, began to mean the territories that were occupied by the Arab Forces _(Egypt and Jordan)_.
> 
> •  Today, the term Palestine means, within the Negotiations context, June 4th 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line.​
> The term (Palestine) is now an Ambiguous "Term."  Its use must be clearly understood.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Today, the term Palestine means, within the Negotiations context, June 4th 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The armistice lines are not borders. they do not define anything.
> 
> Anyone who uses them is a propagandist.
Click to expand...


When President Trump recently crossed the Armistice Line in Korea, he made history as the first American president to step into North Korea.

Besides that, the 1967 lines are held to be sacrosanct by the Palestinians.  The Israelis are more flexible about what the final borders will be.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Manal Tamimi and cousin Saeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Maher T. Samaro and Wael S.a. Faqeeh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Manal Tamimi


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli goons attacking Palestinian civilians.



Sure looks like the Palestinian goons doing the attacking in that pic.  You might want to send it back for a better Photoshop.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Berlin protest against anti-Palestinian repression brings hundreds to Bundestag: “Yes, yes, BDS!”*







Berlin protest against anti-Palestinian repression brings hundreds to Bundestag: “Yes, yes, BDS!”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers brutally arrested Palestinian young from a hospital in the occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Once more, we have an example of Arab Palestinian propaganda; where an untruth is coupled to false and misleading act of self-victimization.



P F Tinmore said:


> "I willl not be silenced on Israeli Aparthied."


*(COMMENT)*

The first untruth is the implied claim that Israel is attempting to "silence" Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda.

The second untruth is the implied claim that Israel is attempting to establish an "Apartheid Program."

There is an unspoken misdirection.  The separation along the border between sovereign Israel and non-sovereign disputed territory → IS NOT THE SAME AS → an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by ONE RACIAL GROUP over any OTHER RACIAL GROUP committed with the intention of maintaining the State of Israel.  

The State of Israel is on one side of the border.  Some other entity is on the other side of the border.   It could be the PLO, Islamic Radicals, Fedayeen Activists, Arab Jihadist, Islamic Revolutionary Graud Corps advisors, or other Asymmetric Fighters.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers brutally arrested Palestinian young from a hospital in the occupied Jerusalem.



That’s right; they specifically went into a random Hospital to pick on a “ random” innocent Palestinian


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers brutally arrested Palestinian young from a hospital in the occupied Jerusalem.






5,000 Palestinians riot on Israel-Gaza border, 3 infiltrators detained

  There Israel goes again; Picking on " Innocent Palestinians"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: Israel ‘Judaizes’ Palestinian Food, Commits ‘Evil Assault’ on Palestinian Heritage, PA Reporter Claims

 Tinmore is Right. Just more proof that the Israelis are stealing what is NOT theirs!   " International Law" should be reinforced ASAP!!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israel Will Be Destroyed in 30 Minutes If US Attacks Iran: Senior Iranian MP

  Here we go; Israel causing trouble again ,  Why can't they abide by : "International Law?"


----------



## Ropey

Palestinian Leader Threatens Trump "If You Cut More Aid, We Will Join ISIS" 

They're following the Pakistani model.

Fail.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Here we go; Israel causing trouble again ,  Why can't they abide by : "International Law?"[/QUOTE]


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...our-if-america-attacks-iran-senior-iranian-mp


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Here we go; Israel causing trouble again ,  Why can't they abide by : "International Law?"[/QUOTE]


Israel will be destroyed in half an hour if America attacks Iran: senior Iranian MP - Reuters


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
Click to expand...



Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.

Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.

Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.

Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.

Korea = apartheid.

Japan = apartheid.

Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.

Cherokee Nation = apartheid.

Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.

I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)  



IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).  

Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.  

Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers brutally arrested Palestinian young from a hospital in the occupied Jerusalem.



A very nice, professional job of arresting and removing someone who was both resisting and assaulting the LEOs.  Clearly, those are well-trained officers.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Funny how calling Israel apartheid and claiming that Israel silences people is NOT ACTUALLY CRITICISM OF ISRAEL.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.
> 
> Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.
> 
> Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.
> 
> Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.
> 
> Korea = apartheid.
> 
> Japan = apartheid.
> 
> Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.
> 
> Cherokee Nation = apartheid.
> 
> Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.
> 
> I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).
> 
> Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.
> 
> Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.
Click to expand...


And you didn't even mention all the Arab and Muslim nations that surround Israel, who are the very definition of apartheid!  He also likes to put up pictures of Palestinian ppl, especially women, doing Western-style things.  But that is because the West Bank is so close to Israel and is influenced by Israeli society.  The further away Arab and Muslim nations are from Israel, the more repressive they become!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of this was followed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.
> 
> Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.
> 
> Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.
> 
> Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.
> 
> Korea = apartheid.
> 
> Japan = apartheid.
> 
> Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.
> 
> Cherokee Nation = apartheid.
> 
> Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.
> 
> I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).
> 
> Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.
> 
> Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.
Click to expand...




  Nobody talks about the Jewish people who were kicked out of their : Native Country"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> This is an attempt to absolve the Araab Palestinians by trying to claim a variation of non-performance.
> 
> Nonsense*!*  Absolute nonsense_*!*_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I hold the position that the Arab Palestinians did have and still has an implied duty not to do anything that prevents the other party from performing critical steps preparatory to independence.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors prevent Israel from performance of the General Assembly adopted Recommendation through the uses of armed force, neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League agressors may make a legitimate complaint of noncompliance or nonperformance.  This same position is just as sound and valid when _(as in the recent Arab Palestinians hostile activities on the southern border)_, disrupts the environment conducive to the maintenance of regional peace and security.
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians and Arab League aggressors disputes peace negotiations resort to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence to prevent peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute THEN, _(again)_ neither the Arab Palestinians or the Arab League aggressors may make a legitimate complaint that the Israelis are NOT pursuing in good faith negotiations.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.
> 
> Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.
> 
> Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.
> 
> Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.
> 
> Korea = apartheid.
> 
> Japan = apartheid.
> 
> Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.
> 
> Cherokee Nation = apartheid.
> 
> Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.
> 
> I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).
> 
> Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.
> 
> Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody talks about the Jewish people who were kicked out of their : Native Country"
Click to expand...

Or that they were kicked out because of Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.
> 
> Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.
> 
> Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.
> 
> Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.
> 
> Korea = apartheid.
> 
> Japan = apartheid.
> 
> Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.
> 
> Cherokee Nation = apartheid.
> 
> Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.
> 
> I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).
> 
> Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.
> 
> Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody talks about the Jewish people who were kicked out of their : Native Country"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or that they were kicked out because of Israel.
Click to expand...



Wait what?!  We are allowed to kick people out of a country based on what other people of the same ethnic or cultural designation do?!

So, for example, if Arab Palestinians say, lob rockets at Jews in Israel, it’s kosher to ethnically cleanse America of its Arab Palestinians?

Because, you know, Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel declared independence in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people declared their sovereign self-determination in their homeland. That it was called “Palestine” by outsiders has no relevancy to the Jewish people.
> 
> Just as the fact that it is called Eretz Israel has no relevancy to the Arab people.
> 
> Still BOTH the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians (now Jewish Israelis) have rights to self-determination and sovereignty within that territory.
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way of denying one and granting the other without being discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IOW, apartheid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well now, that is an interesting take.  You are claiming an equivalency between the self-determination and sovereignty of ethnic or cultural peoples and apartheid.  ALL nations built upon an ethnic or cultural group, then, are apartheid.
> 
> Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England = apartheid.
> 
> Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia = apartheid.
> 
> Spain and Catalonia = apartheid.
> 
> Korea = apartheid.
> 
> Japan = apartheid.
> 
> Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia = all apartheid.
> 
> Cherokee Nation = apartheid.
> 
> Nisga'a Nation = apartheid.
> 
> I could go on and on.  In fact, one would be hard-pressed to find a nation which is not apartheid under your definition.  The only ones which come to mind are those colonized lands such as Canada, US and Australia.  (Oh, the irony.)
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you are vastly expanding the definition of apartheid to suit your Israel (Jew) hatred.  You are creating your own definition of the term expressly so you can demonize the Jewish State. You are also only speaking out about a single apartheid in a world full of apartheid nations (double standards).
> 
> Further, the self-determination of a peoples is one of the most basic principles in international law.  And it is one you argue frequently.
> 
> Your own argument is inherently contradictory.  How are you going to reconcile it?  Oh, you won't.  You'll put up a couple of your dancing men, or mark this post "funny" or if I've really hit home, I'll get the doofus emoji.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody talks about the Jewish people who were kicked out of their : Native Country"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or that they were kicked out because of Israel.
Click to expand...


That’s a good reason. Pro Palestinian Mentality


The inconvenient truth about Jews from Arab lands

The Anti Semitism has always been there; Long Before WW11


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

IDF shoots down drone after it infiltrates into Israel from Gaza Strip

 We have to stop this Israeli Aggression


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






Thousands of Palestinians mark ‘Nakba’ with Gaza protests, West Bank marches

Another lie.  Those Marches are anything BUT peaceful.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Tinmore can keep posting as long as his fingers don't fall off but the above is Reality, "  Right of Return" is DOA and always will be


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thousands of Palestinians mark ‘Nakba’ with Gaza protests, West Bank marches
> 
> Another lie.  Those Marches are anything BUT peaceful.
Click to expand...




WATCH: Thousands of Willing Murderers Eager to Attack Israelis, Says Abbas’ Deputy

Changed My Mind.  Definitely believe in " Right of Return"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

PA stops referring Palestinian patients to Israeli hospitals

GOOD !!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Once more, we have an example of Arab Palestinian propaganda; where an untruth is coupled to false and misleading act of self-victimization.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I willl not be silenced on Israeli Aparthied."
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The first untruth is the implied claim that Israel is attempting to "silence" Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda.
> 
> The second untruth is the implied claim that Israel is attempting to establish an "Apartheid Program."
> 
> There is an unspoken misdirection.  The separation along the border between sovereign Israel and non-sovereign disputed territory → IS NOT THE SAME AS → an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by ONE RACIAL GROUP over any OTHER RACIAL GROUP committed with the intention of maintaining the State of Israel.
> 
> The State of Israel is on one side of the border.  Some other entity is on the other side of the border.   It could be the PLO, Islamic Radicals, Fedayeen Activists, Arab Jihadist, Islamic Revolutionary Graud Corps advisors, or other Asymmetric Fighters.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The first untruth is the implied claim that Israel is attempting to "silence" Hostile Arab Palestinian Propaganda.


*PALESTINIAN EXCEPTION TO FREE SPEECH. BDS MOVEMENTS*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



			
				[I]Daniel Greenfield said:
			
		

> “We support the BDS movement.”
> 
> Those were the words of Ismail Haniyeh, a former Hamas prime minister and the head of its Politburo. And they revealed that Hamas considers BDS to be a component of its strategy for destroying Israel.





P F Tinmore said:


> *PALESTINIAN EXCEPTION TO FREE SPEECH. BDS MOVEMENTS*


*(JUST an OBSERVATION)*

*•  BDS and Terrorism are One Hate Network | Frontpage Mag  •*
https://*www.frontpagemag.com*/fpm/270595/*bds*-and-*terrorism*-are-one-hate-network-daniel...
Jul 04, 2018 · *BDS* is not an alternative to *terrorism*. It’s another political arm of the terrorists. Israel's Minister of Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy, Gilad Erdan, has now made "The Hate Net” map public. The Hate Net map charts the connections between *BDS* organizations and *terrorist* groups.


*•  Where BDS and terrorists converge - CarolineGlick.com  •*
carolineglick.com/where-*bds*-and-*terrorists*-converge
But their involvement in *BDS* campaigns has worked to legitimize the organizations themselves, their *terrorist* aggression against Israel and ultimately, their goal of annihilating the Jewish state in the eyes of a large cross section of the hard core, and increasingly influential, hard left in America. Originally published at Breitbart.com.
Well, which came first, the connection with terrorists, or the organization that claims to be Lilly-white and pure. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [I]Daniel Greenfield said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We support the BDS movement.”
> 
> Those were the words of Ismail Haniyeh, a former Hamas prime minister and the head of its Politburo. And they revealed that Hamas considers BDS to be a component of its strategy for destroying Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *PALESTINIAN EXCEPTION TO FREE SPEECH. BDS MOVEMENTS*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(JUST an OBSERVATION)*
> 
> *•  BDS and Terrorism are One Hate Network | Frontpage Mag  •*
> https://*www.frontpagemag.com*/fpm/270595/*bds*-and-*terrorism*-are-one-hate-network-daniel...
> Jul 04, 2018 · *BDS* is not an alternative to *terrorism*. It’s another political arm of the terrorists. Israel's Minister of Strategic Affairs and Public Diplomacy, Gilad Erdan, has now made "The Hate Net” map public. The Hate Net map charts the connections between *BDS* organizations and *terrorist* groups.
> 
> 
> *•  Where BDS and terrorists converge - CarolineGlick.com  •*
> carolineglick.com/where-*bds*-and-*terrorists*-converge
> But their involvement in *BDS* campaigns has worked to legitimize the organizations themselves, their *terrorist* aggression against Israel and ultimately, their goal of annihilating the Jewish state in the eyes of a large cross section of the hard core, and increasingly influential, hard left in America. Originally published at Breitbart.com.
> Well, which came first, the connection with terrorists, or the organization that claims to be Lilly-white and pure.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Terrorists.  You are a hoot.

What do you find when you scrape the bottom of the barrel?

*Sour grapes!*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I see.  You know different.



P F Tinmore said:


> Terrorists.  You are a hoot.
> 
> What do you find when you scrape the bottom of the barrel?
> 
> *Sour grapes!*


*(COMMENT)*

So what you are saying is that you know different.  You know they are not tied to known terrorist activities.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I see.  You know different.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists.  You are a hoot.
> 
> What do you find when you scrape the bottom of the barrel?
> 
> *Sour grapes!*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So what you are saying is that you know different.  You know they are not tied to known terrorist activities.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

No matter what the liars say, there is no affiliation between BDS and any so called terrorist organization.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza's traditional crafts industries rapidly disappearing*

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — When Gazans think of better economic times, images of clay pottery, colorful glassware, bamboo furniture and ancient frame looms weaving bright rugs and mats all come to mind.

For decades, these traditional crafts defined the economy of the coastal Palestinian enclave, employing thousands of people and exporting across the region. Today, the industries are almost non-existent.

Gaza's traditional crafts industries rapidly disappearing


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Gaza's traditional crafts industries rapidly disappearing*
> 
> GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — When Gazans think of better economic times, images of clay pottery, colorful glassware, bamboo furniture and ancient frame looms weaving bright rugs and mats all come to mind.
> 
> For decades, these traditional crafts defined the economy of the coastal Palestinian enclave, employing thousands of people and exporting across the region. Today, the industries are almost non-existent.
> 
> Gaza's traditional crafts industries rapidly disappearing



Why did the Gazans and Hamas force Israel to impose the blockade?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh

*Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **



Besides this issue having nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, why is the West always to blame for the Islamic nations' evil and incompetence.  It's always easier to blame others.  I thank Gd every day that I live in America.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides this issue having nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, why is the West always to blame for the Islamic nations' evil and incompetence.  It's always easier to blame others.  I thank Gd every day that I live in America.
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> I thank Gd every day that I live in America.


You are not on the receiving end of our foreign policy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **




People are starving = the "West" is bad. Oh, please.  In other words, what new ways can we ascribe evil to Americans, Europeans and Jews in order to shift blame away from us?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersec
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **[/QUOT
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersec*
> *
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **[/QUOT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Mnar Muhawesh is a Palestinian journalist.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore*!*

Yes, America is what it is because of the way in which it addressed events of the past.



P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides this issue having nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, why is the West always to blame for the Islamic nations' evil and incompetence.  It's always easier to blame others.  I thank Gd every day that I live in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thank Gd every day that I live in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not on the receiving end of our foreign policy.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are entitled to your opinion.  You can join the list of a number of American adversaries:

◈ *Russia,* 

◈ *China,* 

◈ *North Korea*, 

◈ *Venezuela*, 

◈ *Iran*, 

◈ *Syria,* 

◈  *Cuba,* 

◈ *Lebanon,* 

◈ *Yemen*, 

◈ *Bolivia,* 

◈* Nicaragua*​ 
You are in good company*!*
Not a day goes by that some population, somewhere in the world, is out burning an American Flag, or protesting against the right of Americans to recognize this or that; and extending its Foreign Policy, so you may have that right.

BTW, the only country in the Middle East that reasonably emulates America, happens to be Israel.  And Israel has a measure of economic development and welfare, as well as the most educated country in the of any Middle Eastedrncountry; even compared to the entire Arab League.

What struck me the most was the rating Israel has in the World Happiness Report (WHR) of 2018  which gives a brief description of the happiness levels of all the countries in the world. "_The report is an annual publication of UN’s sustainable_ development solutions network which contains data according to various perspectives of national happiness and their ranking based on the analysis of people’s well-being and living standards.  Israel ranks 11th as the country that has the happiest and satisfied population in the world.  That is significantly higher than any country in the Middle East, the entirety of Africa and South America, Central Asia, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. That is not the whole world, but it is a fair chunch.  They appear to be happier in Israel than are Americans."

So get out there, burn a flag, and keep telling the world that you want to switch Israel from being the happiest and most developed country in the Arab League, to being taken over by a gang of Arab that qualified to run a playground. 

That would be completely foolish.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore*!*
> 
> Yes, America is what it is because of the way in which it addressed events of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mnar Muhawesh
> 
> *Somalia, Yemen & S. Sudan: Where Famine & Western Imperialism Intersect*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides this issue having nothing to do with Israel/Palestine, why is the West always to blame for the Islamic nations' evil and incompetence.  It's always easier to blame others.  I thank Gd every day that I live in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thank Gd every day that I live in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not on the receiving end of our foreign policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion.  You can join the list of a number of American adversaries:
> 
> ◈ *Russia,*
> 
> ◈ *China,*
> 
> ◈ *North Korea*,
> 
> ◈ *Venezuela*,
> 
> ◈ *Iran*,
> 
> ◈ *Syria,*
> 
> ◈  *Cuba,*
> 
> ◈ *Lebanon,*
> 
> ◈ *Yemen*,
> 
> ◈ *Bolivia,*
> 
> ◈* Nicaragua*​
> You are in good company*!*
> Not a day goes by that some population, somewhere in the world, is out burning an American Flag, or protesting against the right of Americans to recognize this or that; and extending its Foreign Policy, so you may have that right.
> 
> BTW, the only country in the Middle East that reasonably emulates America, happens to be Israel.  And Israel has a measure of economic development and welfare, as well as the most educated country in the of any Middle Eastedrncountry; even compared to the entire Arab League.
> 
> What struck me the most was the rating Israel has in the World Happiness Report (WHR) of 2018  which gives a brief description of the happiness levels of all the countries in the world. "_The report is an annual publication of UN’s sustainable_ development solutions network which contains data according to various perspectives of national happiness and their ranking based on the analysis of people’s well-being and living standards.  Israel ranks 11th as the country that has the happiest and satisfied population in the world.  That is significantly higher than any country in the Middle East, the entirety of Africa and South America, Central Asia, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. That is not the whole world, but it is a fair chunch.  They appear to be happier in Israel than are Americans."
> 
> So get out there, burn a flag, and keep telling the world that you want to switch Israel from being the happiest and most developed country in the Arab League, to being taken over by a gang of Arab that qualified to run a playground.
> 
> That would be completely foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Interesting, how many of those countries have attacked us?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*Why Palestinians do not trust Their Leaders*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
July 11, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*Why Palestinians Do Not Trust Their Leaders*


Evidently, Palestinian leaders do not grasp that the Palestinian public cares a great deal more about being treated like human beings by their own leaders than about anti-Israel and anti-US rhetoric.


This incitement is Palestinian leaders' way of distracting attention from problems at home. They want their people to be busy hating someone else – in this case Israel, the US and pro-US Arab leaders. Otherwise, these people might wake up one fine morning and demand reform, transparency and democracy from their leaders in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.


If Palestinian leaders spent a fraction of the time that they waste on condemning Israel and the US, on bringing good government to their people, the Palestinians would be in a much better situation. It seems that some senior Palestinian leaders cannot go to sleep at night without having disgorged fiery statements against Israel and the US. Needless to say, this does not make for particularly constructive governance.


When fighting an unseen peace plan becomes a greater priority than bettering the lives of your people, one can only say that, with failed leaders such as these, the time has come for the Palestinian public to raise its collective voice and demand its rights from its unelected leaders in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Until this happens, Palestinian leaders will continue to enjoy the good life on the extremely burdened backs of its people.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Today marks the 1st anniversary of the murder of the Palestinian journalist and father Yaser Murtaja who was killed by an Israeli sniper's bullet while covering the Great March of Return protests. Yaser was deliberately shot while wearing a vest clearly marking him as a journalist.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

This entire thread needs to be deleted. Tinmore is a communist spreading propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Fields of Jenin, occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian boy herds sheep in the northern Jordan Valley.
Photo by Abd Al-Rahman Mohammad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Today marks the 1st anniversary of the murder of the Palestinian journalist and father Yaser Murtaja who was killed by an Israeli sniper's bullet while covering the Great March of Return protests. Yaser was deliberately shot while wearing a vest clearly marking him as a journalist.




Yaser was ALSO launching a drone, which is considered by the IDF to be a potential threat, in a place where all sorts of potential threats exist.

Now, you can argue the correctness of responding with lethal force to potential threats, but you must not deliberately mislead people by leaving out this sort of factual information.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!




So we are clear on who this is:  he murdered two Israelis, resisted arrest, shot LEOs and was killed in the exchange of fire which followed.  


He murdered Sgt. Gal Keidan and Rabbi Achiad Ettinger.  May their memories be for a blessing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rasha Nahas*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Oh.  Its your favorite "recent Arab immigrants are native Palestinians (because Arab) but recent Jewish immigrants are foreign colonialists (because Jews)" argument.  How sweet.  And racist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!





Palestinian village names street after Ariel terrorist Omar Abu Lila

 Pro Palestinian Mentality, He got what he deserved.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian leader vows to keep paying attackers' families

  There is a bright side; More will die


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


>



Context? Is this a construction site and the lady is a trespasser?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we are clear on who this is:  he murdered two Israelis, resisted arrest, shot LEOs and was killed in the exchange of fire which followed.
> 
> 
> He murdered Sgt. Gal Keidan and Rabbi Achiad Ettinger.  May their memories be for a blessing.
Click to expand...


He is resting alright...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Netanyahu: The days of uprooting Jews from their land are over

  We all see how successful Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was.  This will never happen again


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian Authority Supreme Shari'a Judge And Abbas' Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: The Jews Have No Connection To Jerusalem; This Is An Imperialist Myth And Distortion Of History

  Their long term goal is to have control of ALL Jerusalem ,  That will always belong to the Israelis


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/ent/?ent-type=jewish-holy-sites

Two Words;  NEVER AGAIN


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we are clear on who this is:  he murdered two Israelis, resisted arrest, shot LEOs and was killed in the exchange of fire which followed.
> 
> 
> He murdered Sgt. Gal Keidan and Rabbi Achiad Ettinger.  May their memories be for a blessing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is resting alright...
Click to expand...


PERMANENTLY !  I wonder how many Virgins he deflowered?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rest in Peace, Omar Abu Laila!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we are clear on who this is:  he murdered two Israelis, resisted arrest, shot LEOs and was killed in the exchange of fire which followed.
> 
> 
> He murdered Sgt. Gal Keidan and Rabbi Achiad Ettinger.  May their memories be for a blessing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is resting alright...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PERMANENTLY !  I wonder how many Virgins he deflowered?
Click to expand...


Virgin sheep?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*16 year old Palestinian talks of surviving 3 wars, and her art*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Malak Mattar


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ghassan Kanafani, reknowned writer and Palestinian leader. In this rare video from 1970 he answers why he refused to talk to Israeli leaders: "that's the kind of conversation between the sword and the neck"

He was assassinated July 8, 1972.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why We Will Never Understand Gaza In The West | Razan Al-Najjar


----------



## P F Tinmore

"The absent” 
No word..


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Ghassan Kanafani, reknowned writer and Palestinian leader. In this rare video from 1970 he answers why he refused to talk to Israeli leaders: "that's the kind of conversation between the sword and the neck"
> 
> He was assassinated July 8, 1972.



YAWN....,, Jewish Voice for “ Peace” endorses 67 Borders which were never accepted in the first place,” Right of Return” which will in time have a Palestinian Majority; but the most important thing says nothing about their denial of Israel’s right to certain religious sites.  Let them post all they want; it doesn’t matter .


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Freedom for Gaza with Ariel Gold & Mazin Qumsiyeh*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Here we go.,,, Just pictures again ; no substance


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go.,,, Just pictures again ; no substance
Click to expand...

It is a picture of the Palestinian Expo, duh. 

Do you need to have that spelled out for you?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go.,,, Just pictures again ; no substance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is a picture of the Palestinian Expo, duh.
> 
> Do you need to have that spelled out for you?
Click to expand...


So? No words. At least when I posted a picture of the WESTERN WALL there were Jews there including HASIDIC JEWS with an explanation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo – Book Review*

*




*

(_Preventing Palestine –  A Political History From Camp David to Oslo.  Seth Anziska.  Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ, 2018.)_

In all my recent readings of history and current events, Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories of Palestine. 

Given the nature of the book, it also hints at the gradual process through which all of Mandatory Palestine west of the Jordan River gave way to the acceptance of only a partial space – the West Bank and Gaza – within the overall colonial-settler area of Israel, as a region for a Palestinian state.  

Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo – Book Review*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> (_Preventing Palestine –  A Political History From Camp David to Oslo.  Seth Anziska.  Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ, 2018.)_
> 
> In all my recent readings of history and current events, Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories of Palestine.
> 
> Given the nature of the book, it also hints at the gradual process through which all of Mandatory Palestine west of the Jordan River gave way to the acceptance of only a partial space – the West Bank and Gaza – within the overall colonial-settler area of Israel, as a region for a Palestinian state.
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle



More whining about imagined victimization.

From the article:  _In short, the two-state solution has not died, it was stillborn, with the Oslo Accords essentially extending Begin’s denial of sovereignty and statehood into the indefinite future.  
_
I agree the two-state solution was stillborn.  But it was so going back to the very conceptualization of a sovereign, self-determining State for the Jewish people and the Arab refusal to entertain such an idea.  An idea which still holds true today.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



Excerpt • P F Tinmore said:


> "Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process"
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle


*(COMMENT)*

It is a good book on the basics.  But like so very many books on the subject, it is like studying economics, it can only address the past.  And the fault with that is it only looks backward at things we simply "cannot" change.

Solutions are developed looking forward → only limited by the dogmatic views and vision of the people stuck in the past.  And sadly, the dogma does not play a critical role in the maintenance for the future.


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt • P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process"
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a good book on the basics.  But like so very many books on the subject, it is like studying economics, it can only address the past.  And the fault with that is it only looks backward at things we simply "cannot" change.
> 
> Solutions are developed looking forward → only limited by the dogmatic views and vision of the people stuck in the past.  And sadly, the dogma does not play a critical role in the maintenance for the future.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are doing a lot moving forward.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, I may be a just a bit blind here.




P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are doing a lot moving forward.


*(COMMENT)*

What have the Arab Palestinians, of the disputed territories, done to achieve peaceful solutions to the Middle East situation?

By international standards, Arab Palestinians have a duty the refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

I have seen no effort, whatsoever, of the Arab Palestinians acting in accordance with the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  In fact, we see, on a daily basis, the exact opposite characteristics of a "state" in both policy and deeds.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> Excerpt • P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process"
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a good book on the basics.  But like so very many books on the subject, it is like studying economics, it can only address the past.  And the fault with that is it only looks backward at things we simply "cannot" change.
> 
> Solutions are developed looking forward → only limited by the dogmatic views and vision of the people stuck in the past.  And sadly, the dogma does not play a critical role in the maintenance for the future.
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



It’s nothing but an attempt to color the narrative.


----------



## Shusha

And that said, it’s important to understand WHY Arab Palestinians need (want) to color the narrative.

See as long as they can paint the Jewish people as not *deserving* of a State, they have a hope of winning the entire territory for themselves, their culture and their religion.

The moment they give up* that narrative and allow for a State for the Jewish people, acknowledging the equal rights of the Jewish people, they’ve become traitors to both Arabs and Islam, in their view.

The problem is that many Arabs and many Muslims are (admittedly slowly) adopting a view which allows equality and progressive ideas.  Evidenced by the statements from government leaders of some Arab countries.

There is going to be a pushback from extremist Arabs and Muslims. And it’s going to be ugly.  But I don’t think they will win. 

*or are forced to give up


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> *Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo – Book Review*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> (_Preventing Palestine –  A Political History From Camp David to Oslo.  Seth Anziska.  Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ, 2018.)_
> 
> In all my recent readings of history and current events, Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories of Palestine.
> 
> Given the nature of the book, it also hints at the gradual process through which all of Mandatory Palestine west of the Jordan River gave way to the acceptance of only a partial space – the West Bank and Gaza – within the overall colonial-settler area of Israel, as a region for a Palestinian state.
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle



LOL

I actually laughed out loud reading this. Thank you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, I may be a just a bit blind here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians are doing a lot moving forward.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What have the Arab Palestinians, of the disputed territories, done to achieve peaceful solutions to the Middle East situation?
> 
> By international standards, Arab Palestinians have a duty the refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> I have seen no effort, whatsoever, of the Arab Palestinians acting in accordance with the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.  In fact, we see, on a daily basis, the exact opposite characteristics of a "state" in both policy and deeds.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> What have the Arab Palestinians, of the disputed territories, done to achieve peaceful solutions to the Middle East situation?


Whose version of peace are you talking about?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*ABC Radio's David Astle talks to Samah Sabawi & Bagryana Popov about their upcoming production THEM*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Larissa Sansour exhibits Heirloom the Danish Pavillion Biennalearte 2019*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is an example of the tangible problem with Arab Palestinian of the Disputed Territories.



P F Tinmore said:


> Whose version of peace are you talking about?


*(COMMENT)*

There is no such thing as a "version of peace."  It is either PEACE or NO PEACE.  Arab Palestinian Versions be damned.  

Peace is not a characteristic of a people who have the audacity to say:  

◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."

◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

◈  "The Palestinian Authority is inciting the current wave of violence through its official media. Jews and Americans are the prime targets."

◈  "Palestinian scholars issue a fatwa against "normalization""

◈  Gazan Scholar Dr. Muhammad Suleiman Al-Farra: It Is Our Religious Duty to Fight the Jews and "Kill them Wherever You May Find Them"

◈  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord.​
The Arab Palestinians are one of the most untrustworthy Barbarians in the Middle East; second only to the Islamic State.

A version of Peace for the Arab Palestinians is merely code for "Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence."

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Whose version of peace are you talking about?



Peace is the condition where there is an absence of conflict.  While there may be many paths to peace, not all of them are equal, nor deserving of pursuit.  

Any conflict which results in peace because one side or the other has been dismantled, eliminated, erased, driven out, or made silent is a version of peace which should not be pursued.  

This is why a two (or more) state solution is ultimately the only acceptable solution.  Its the only solution which doesn't require the dismantling, elimination, erasure and silencing of one side.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose version of peace are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is the condition where there is an absence of conflict.  While there may be many paths to peace, not all of them are equal, nor deserving of pursuit.
> 
> Any conflict which results in peace because one side or the other has been dismantled, eliminated, erased, driven out, or made silent is a version of peace which should not be pursued.
> 
> This is why a two (or more) state solution is ultimately the only acceptable solution.  Its the only solution which doesn't require the dismantling, elimination, erasure and silencing of one side.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Peace is the condition where there is an absence of conflict.


Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the presence of justice. ~ MLK Jr.

No justice, no peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is an example of the tangible problem with Arab Palestinian of the Disputed Territories.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose version of peace are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no such thing as a "version of peace."  It is either PEACE or NO PEACE.  Arab Palestinian Versions be damned.
> 
> Peace is not a characteristic of a people who have the audacity to say:
> 
> ◈  "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."
> 
> ◈  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."
> 
> ◈  "The Palestinian Authority is inciting the current wave of violence through its official media. Jews and Americans are the prime targets."
> 
> ◈  "Palestinian scholars issue a fatwa against "normalization""
> 
> ◈  Gazan Scholar Dr. Muhammad Suleiman Al-Farra: It Is Our Religious Duty to Fight the Jews and "Kill them Wherever You May Find Them"
> 
> ◈  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord.​
> The Arab Palestinians are one of the most untrustworthy Barbarians in the Middle East; second only to the Islamic State.
> 
> A version of Peace for the Arab Palestinians is merely code for "Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You always talk about Israel's version.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Woman farmer in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Never forget Israeli brutality against the women of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

On this day, we must say again and again no Israeli massacres, armies, or atrocities can stop Palestinian women from fighting for freedom and independence.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,ƒ

Yeah, this is a trick.



P F Tinmore said:


> Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the presence of justice. ~ MLK Jr.​No justice, no peace.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no question about it.  This makes a good sound-bite and one hell of a bumper sticker.  But in terms of contributing energy at a common table for peace, not so much*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> You always talk about Israel's version.


*(COMMENT)*

I don't think I mentioned "Israel" even once in my commentary.    But having said that, I would like you to just glance at:

November 22, 2017  
*•  Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace  •*
By Jonathan R. Verlin

Read more: Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace 
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook​
The reason I did not mention Israel in this respect, is because the logic of there being an Israeli version of peace is no less valid than, an Arab Palestinian version of peace.  It cuts both ways.

While I am not always successful, I always try to keep two things in my mind when I respond to one of your deep thoughts and claims:

◈  In every argument in which I engage about the conflict between the Israeli's and the Arab Palestinians I hope to show that something about the Arab Palestinians prevents peace and factors state that as the case.

◈  In cases where I try and explain, show how, or why these factors are the case.​
*(THE SIMPLICITY)*

In this case, the Arabs of Palestine admit explicitly that as a matter of commitment, they want to pursue "Armed Struggle" as a principle policy.  

----------  ❖  ----------​I don't need to write a book about that.  And the Arabs of Palestine unambiguously imply that no matter what course of action the Israelis take _(little needs further consideration since the Arab Palestinians will not even sit at the same conference on the matter of peace)_, there will always be a very dangerous element _(a hostile element)_ in the community of Arab Palestinians that will not consider it any compromise or concession as satisfactory.   

The Arab Palestinians cannot even agree on the method by which the government selects its leadership, let alone pass that leadership from one elected power to the next.

Moster Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Continuing plight of Palestinian Christians *

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

v/r
R



P F Tinmore said:


> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,ƒ
> 
> Yeah, this is a trick.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the presence of justice. ~ MLK Jr.​No justice, no peace.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no question about it.  This makes a good sound-bite and one hell of a bumper sticker.  But in terms of contributing energy at a common table for peace, not so much*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You always talk about Israel's version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I don't think I mentioned "Israel" even once in my commentary.    But having said that, I would like you to just glance at:
> 
> November 22, 2017
> *•  Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace  •*
> By Jonathan R. Verlin
> 
> Read more: Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace
> Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook​
> The reason I did not mention Israel in this respect, is because the logic of there being an Israeli version of peace is no less valid than, an Arab Palestinian version of peace.  It cuts both ways.
> 
> While I am not always successful, I always try to keep two things in my mind when I respond to one of your deep thoughts and claims:
> 
> ◈  In every argument in which I engage about the conflict between the Israeli's and the Arab Palestinians I hope to show that something about the Arab Palestinians prevents peace and factors state that as the case.
> 
> ◈  In cases where I try and explain, show how, or why these factors are the case.​
> *(THE SIMPLICITY)*
> 
> In this case, the Arabs of Palestine admit explicitly that as a matter of commitment, they want to pursue "Armed Struggle" as a principle policy.
> 
> ----------  ❖  ----------​I don't need to write a book about that.  And the Arabs of Palestine unambiguously imply that no matter what course of action the Israelis take _(little needs further consideration since the Arab Palestinians will not even sit at the same conference on the matter of peace)_, there will always be a very dangerous element _(a hostile element)_ in the community of Arab Palestinians that will not consider it any compromise or concession as satisfactory.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians cannot even agree on the method by which the government selects its leadership, let alone pass that leadership from one elected power to the next.
> 
> Moster Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace


Israeli bullshit, of course.

The Palestinians have never rejected peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dar Yusuf Nasri Jacir for Art and Research – Emily Jacir*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

No matter how barbaric and savage Israel is against Palestinian women, they will continue to lead the struggle against Israeli apartheid and racism until Palestine is free.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli checkpoint in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli military V Palestinian civilians in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No justice, no peace.



Bullshit.  You obviously didn't even read my post, let alone attempt to understand it.  Peace can be achieved in a number of ways.  Not all of them worthy of pursuing.  

You are attempting to color the narrative again.  

What would justice for the Jewish people look like?  How will we know when the Jewish people have achieved justice?  

What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?  How will we know when the Arab Palestinian people have achieved justice?

Any consideration of one half of the equation, without considering the other, is NOT JUSTICE.  And it will not achieve peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No justice, no peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  You obviously didn't even read my post, let alone attempt to understand it.  Peace can be achieved in a number of ways.  Not all of them worthy of pursuing.
> 
> You are attempting to color the narrative again.
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?  How will we know when the Jewish people have achieved justice?
> 
> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?  How will we know when the Arab Palestinian people have achieved justice?
> 
> Any consideration of one half of the equation, without considering the other, is NOT JUSTICE.  And it will not achieve peace.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?





Shusha said:


> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?



Good questions. What would be *your* answers?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Cat Love in Gaza: ‘With all the money we had left’: Palestinians in Gaza start projects to rescue stray cats


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No justice, no peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  You obviously didn't even read my post, let alone attempt to understand it.  Peace can be achieved in a number of ways.  Not all of them worthy of pursuing.
> 
> You are attempting to color the narrative again.
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?  How will we know when the Jewish people have achieved justice?
> 
> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?  How will we know when the Arab Palestinian people have achieved justice?
> 
> Any consideration of one half of the equation, without considering the other, is NOT JUSTICE.  And it will not achieve peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good questions. What would be *your* answers?
Click to expand...


Yep.  I'll answer that. 

But first, understand my point is that everyone must consider BOTH.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gazans are playing volleyball during the Great Return March.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No justice, no peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  You obviously didn't even read my post, let alone attempt to understand it.  Peace can be achieved in a number of ways.  Not all of them worthy of pursuing.
> 
> You are attempting to color the narrative again.
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?  How will we know when the Jewish people have achieved justice?
> 
> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?  How will we know when the Arab Palestinian people have achieved justice?
> 
> Any consideration of one half of the equation, without considering the other, is NOT JUSTICE.  And it will not achieve peace.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Arab Palestinian people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good questions. What would be *your* answers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  I'll answer that.
> 
> But first, understand my point is that everyone must consider BOTH.
Click to expand...

I only see one side on this board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Great return march, Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I only see one side on this board.



But this is again(!) just you trying to color the narrative.


----------



## Shusha

on justice:

First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.  

Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.  

Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

So, what might justice look like?

First and foremost, and above all else, it requires the recognition of BOTH peoples and a starting point that whatever one peoples achieves, the other should be given all chances to succeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".


No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.

Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.

Those are the principles I go by.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Beach.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Human shield.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".
> 
> 
> 
> No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Those are the principles I go by.
Click to expand...



Well, yes.  But you only apply those principles to your side.  You literally define "illegal" activities based on who is performing the activity.  If Arabs are "resisting" -- legal.  If Jews are "resisting" -- apartheid, illegal and all sorts of other ugliness.  

You have no capability of understanding justice as a nuanced balanced concept.  Justice, for you, is black and white Arabs good, Jews evil.  That is not justice.  That's racism.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Human shield.



Soldier shielding teenager, obviously.  Duh.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".
> 
> 
> 
> No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Those are the principles I go by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  But you only apply those principles to your side.  You literally define "illegal" activities based on who is performing the activity.  If Arabs are "resisting" -- legal.  If Jews are "resisting" -- apartheid, illegal and all sorts of other ugliness.
> 
> You have no capability of understanding justice as a nuanced balanced concept.  Justice, for you, is black and white Arabs good, Jews evil.  That is not justice.  That's racism.
Click to expand...

Settler colonialism is an aggression against the Palestinians that started over a hundred years ago.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".
> 
> 
> 
> No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Those are the principles I go by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  But you only apply those principles to your side.  You literally define "illegal" activities based on who is performing the activity.  If Arabs are "resisting" -- legal.  If Jews are "resisting" -- apartheid, illegal and all sorts of other ugliness.
> 
> You have no capability of understanding justice as a nuanced balanced concept.  Justice, for you, is black and white Arabs good, Jews evil.  That is not justice.  That's racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is an aggression against the Palestinians that started over a hundred years ago.
Click to expand...



What would justice for the Jewish people look like?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.  

When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?

To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.



			
				The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
			
		

> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?
> 
> To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes


What dispute? I don't see a dispute.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The Arab Palestinians OPENLY REJECTED this plan in 1947.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?
> 
> To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dispute? I don't see a dispute.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians cannot have it both ways.  They cannot have it both ways.  It is not a game where you get to start over if the outcome is not to your liking.

The Arab League attempt in to supplant this recommendation (A/RES/181 II) through the use of "Armed Force."  The conflict altered the outcome and the Arab League members took what they wanted.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?
> 
> To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dispute? I don't see a dispute.
Click to expand...


It's too bad the Palestinians didn't accept that partition when they had the chance.  Now they will have to make do with less than that.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".
> 
> 
> 
> No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Those are the principles I go by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  But you only apply those principles to your side.  You literally define "illegal" activities based on who is performing the activity.  If Arabs are "resisting" -- legal.  If Jews are "resisting" -- apartheid, illegal and all sorts of other ugliness.
> 
> You have no capability of understanding justice as a nuanced balanced concept.  Justice, for you, is black and white Arabs good, Jews evil.  That is not justice.  That's racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is an aggression against the Palestinians that started over a hundred years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
Click to expand...


Not going to get a response


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?
> 
> To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dispute? I don't see a dispute.
Click to expand...


I can. The Arabs rejected it


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Arab Palestinians OPENLY REJECTED this plan in 1947.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I might believe that if you could show or explain where the borders of Palestine are.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> v/r
> R
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today we uproot the fence, tomorrow the occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhhh, that fence is in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> But since Arab Palestinian has NOT refrained from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means?
> 
> To my knowledge, the Arab Palestinian has not exercised the dispute resolution process either under the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States or the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Authority's chief negotiator • Saeb Erekat said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "We have already recognized Israel's existence on the 1948 borders of Occupied Palestine," Erekat explained. He added that he made it clear to former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni during a meeting in Munich that the Palestinians "won't change their history and religion and culture by recognizing Israel as a Jewish state."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the Arab Palestinian seek a settlement of their international disputes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What dispute? I don't see a dispute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians cannot have it both ways.  They cannot have it both ways.  It is not a game where you get to start over if the outcome is not to your liking.
> 
> The Arab League attempt in to supplant this recommendation (A/RES/181 II) through the use of "Armed Force."  The conflict altered the outcome and the Arab League members took what they wanted.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy deflection, Batman!

What dispute?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"Angels of Mercy" - Emotional Spoken Word Poem in Tribute of Razan al-Najjar by Abir Safa*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, for heaven's sake.  There have been dozens of ways the Arab Palestinians present some reasoning that come-off poorly, leading you to false, useless, or unsupported *conclusions*.

Every single day you hear about some sort of disturbance, some sort of all to arms and focus against the Israelis.  And your defense today is to suggest there is NO dispute.  What a circus ring of horse dung!

If there is no dispute, but there is an armed struggle, a call for Jihad, then the suggestion is that it is over nothing?

There is something amiss here; being it is more _(much more)_ than a simply an error in reasoning, some sort of daily common error.



P F Tinmore said:


> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> What dispute?


*(COMMENT)*

There is no deflection.  I'm tackling the issue head-on.  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians in the agreed upon zone identified as Areas "A" • "B" and "C" have lost the human characteristics that make them something other the cutthroat barbarians, murderer · killers · butcher · thug and homicide maniacs that they have proven themselves to be through a past history of criminal behaviors.

The Arab Palestinians of the territories in dispute, have an undisputed record Criminal Acts directed against Israel, committed with the intention of • or calculated to • cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, for the purpose of perpetrating and intimidating the Israelis • in an attempt to compel the State of Israel and its citizenry to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers their criminal objective.

The Arab Palestinians of the disputed territories use subjectivist fallacies when they make appeals to apply the logic that they are above the Rule of Law to justify some decades of criminal activity.

THEN, you have the audacity to say:  "Holy deflection, Batman!  →  What dispute?

As if there has not been a conflict or dispute between the Arab Palestinians and the Israels over:

◈   Borders,
◈  Jerusalem,
◈  Refugees (right of return)
◈  Terrorist Prisoners
◈  Recognition of the Jewish State,
※   etc​
You need to check your grasp on reality.  There is a dispute → you may be playing some sort of game; but there's actually a whole host of disputes, the least of which may be borders.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad on USA Tour: Interactive workshop with the children of PACC Summer Fun Program at the Palestinian American Community Center in Clifton, NJ


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake.  There have been dozens of ways the Arab Palestinians present some reasoning that come-off poorly, leading you to false, useless, or unsupported *conclusions*.
> 
> Every single day you hear about some sort of disturbance, some sort of all to arms and focus against the Israelis.  And your defense today is to suggest there is NO dispute.  What a circus ring of horse dung!
> 
> If there is no dispute, but there is an armed struggle, a call for Jihad, then the suggestion is that it is over nothing?
> 
> There is something amiss here; being it is more _(much more)_ than a simply an error in reasoning, some sort of daily common error.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> What dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no deflection.  I'm tackling the issue head-on.  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians in the agreed upon zone identified as Areas "A" • "B" and "C" have lost the human characteristics that make them something other the cutthroat barbarians, murderer · killers · butcher · thug and homicide maniacs that they have proven themselves to be through a past history of criminal behaviors.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of the territories in dispute, have an undisputed record Criminal Acts directed against Israel, committed with the intention of • or calculated to • cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, for the purpose of perpetrating and intimidating the Israelis • in an attempt to compel the State of Israel and its citizenry to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers their criminal objective.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of the disputed territories use subjectivist fallacies when they make appeals to apply the logic that they are above the Rule of Law to justify some decades of criminal activity.
> 
> THEN, you have the audacity to say:  "Holy deflection, Batman!  →  What dispute?
> 
> As if there has not been a conflict or dispute between the Arab Palestinians and the Israels over:
> 
> ◈   Borders,
> ◈  Jerusalem,
> ◈  Refugees (right of return)
> ◈  Terrorist Prisoners
> ◈  Recognition of the Jewish State,
> ※   etc​
> You need to check your grasp on reality.  There is a dispute → you may be playing some sort of game; but there's actually a whole host of disputes, the least of which may be borders.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The only so called disputes are Israeli talking points, i.e. there are no disputes.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, for heaven's sake.  There have been dozens of ways the Arab Palestinians present some reasoning that come-off poorly, leading you to false, useless, or unsupported *conclusions*.
> 
> Every single day you hear about some sort of disturbance, some sort of all to arms and focus against the Israelis.  And your defense today is to suggest there is NO dispute.  What a circus ring of horse dung!
> 
> If there is no dispute, but there is an armed struggle, a call for Jihad, then the suggestion is that it is over nothing?
> 
> There is something amiss here; being it is more _(much more)_ than a simply an error in reasoning, some sort of daily common error.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy deflection, Batman!
> 
> What dispute?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no deflection.  I'm tackling the issue head-on.  I suggest that the Arab Palestinians in the agreed upon zone identified as Areas "A" • "B" and "C" have lost the human characteristics that make them something other the cutthroat barbarians, murderer · killers · butcher · thug and homicide maniacs that they have proven themselves to be through a past history of criminal behaviors.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of the territories in dispute, have an undisputed record Criminal Acts directed against Israel, committed with the intention of • or calculated to • cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, for the purpose of perpetrating and intimidating the Israelis • in an attempt to compel the State of Israel and its citizenry to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers their criminal objective.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of the disputed territories use subjectivist fallacies when they make appeals to apply the logic that they are above the Rule of Law to justify some decades of criminal activity.
> 
> THEN, you have the audacity to say:  "Holy deflection, Batman!  →  What dispute?
> 
> As if there has not been a conflict or dispute between the Arab Palestinians and the Israels over:
> 
> ◈   Borders,
> ◈  Jerusalem,
> ◈  Refugees (right of return)
> ◈  Terrorist Prisoners
> ◈  Recognition of the Jewish State,
> ※   etc​
> You need to check your grasp on reality.  There is a dispute → you may be playing some sort of game; but there's actually a whole host of disputes, the least of which may be borders.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only so called disputes are Israeli talking points, i.e. there are no disputes.
Click to expand...



IOW, if you erase the Jewish people entirely there is no dispute.

How’s that answer on justice for the Jewish people coming along, Tinmore?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> on justice:
> 
> First, what justice is NOT:  Justice does not mean the restoration of any particular conditions at any particular point in time.  Restoration of this sort accepts the narrative that one particular, singular point of time is the "right' place or state of being, to the exclusion of all other possibilities.  It is neither just to attempt to restore the Jewish people to Israel of 4000 years ago, nor to attempt to restore the Arabs to a point of time at the end of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Justice for individuals is vastly different from justice for peoples.  And the achievement of justice for the one often comes at the cost of the achievement of justice for the other.
> 
> Justice is not an objective state.  It is highly subjective and dependent on what each side is seeking in order to "make it right".
> 
> 
> 
> No legal benefit can be derived from illegal activities.
> 
> Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Those are the principles I go by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  But you only apply those principles to your side.  You literally define "illegal" activities based on who is performing the activity.  If Arabs are "resisting" -- legal.  If Jews are "resisting" -- apartheid, illegal and all sorts of other ugliness.
> 
> You have no capability of understanding justice as a nuanced balanced concept.  Justice, for you, is black and white Arabs good, Jews evil.  That is not justice.  That's racism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Settler colonialism is an aggression against the Palestinians that started over a hundred years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
Click to expand...




Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine

  You don't really expect to get an answer, do you?


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You don't really expect to get an answer, do you?



Of course not.  He can't ever acknowledge even the existence of the Jewish people.  The moment he does, he is on the slippery slope and every last one of his arguments and comments is blown to pieces.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect to get an answer, do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not.  He can't ever acknowledge even the existence of the Jewish people.  The moment he does, he is on the slippery slope and every last one of his arguments and comments is blown to pieces.
Click to expand...


Hey, according to him, REAL JEWS don’t believe Israel has the Right to Exist.  What could be more stupid and ignorant then him putting a cartoon up where Hasidic Jews and Hamas  actually AGREE on this issue?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Deflection city.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection city.



Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.

You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?  

What would justice for the Jewish people look like?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
Click to expand...

You haven't been following my posts.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
Click to expand...


You haven’t responded to my question. What would justice for either or both people look like?

You brought up justice. Seems the least you can do is clarify what it means to you.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
Click to expand...


Also most of your posts are nonsensical.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Deflection city.



You’re the one who’s deflecting. Refusing to acknowledge the PLO formal declaration that Jews are not entitled to be at the Western Wall for starters


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven’t responded to my question. What would justice for either or both people look like?
> 
> You brought up justice. Seems the least you can do is clarify what it means to you.
Click to expand...


He’s going to accuse you of deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
Click to expand...

Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
Click to expand...



Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.  

Justice. What does it mean?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
Click to expand...

Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.


----------



## Lastamender

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.
Click to expand...

There is no equality in Islam. And there is no peace.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.
Click to expand...



Well no. IN fact, this conversation about justice came up because you rejected the idea of peace without justice. You defined justice as being separate from peace. 

So. What is justice?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure are deflecting from my question.
> 
> You are insistent that the Arab Palestinians have a right to some sort of justice.  What do you mean by justice?  What would justice look like for the Arab Palestinians?  How would the international community be able to measure that justice had been achieved?
> 
> What would justice for the Jewish people look like?
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.
Click to expand...


Like not having access to the Western Wall is “ peace and equality “or the Fatah party with their LEGO showing ALL of Israel as Palestine ? Another stupid remark.  That will never happen.


----------



## Mindful

"The goal of HAMAS is the establishment of an Islamist state in the entire territory of 'Palestine' — also through armed struggle. A strategy paper written in 2017 states: 'Resistance to occupation by all means is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws. At the heart of it lies the armed resistance.' By 'Palestine' HAMAS means the area between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan, which also includes the territory of the State of Israel. Western countries such as Germany are seen by HAMAS as a haven where the organization focuses on collecting donations, recruiting new supporters, and propagating its propaganda." — Annual report of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (_Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, BfV_), 2019


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> "The goal of HAMAS is the establishment of an Islamist state in the entire territory of 'Palestine' — also through armed struggle. A strategy paper written in 2017 states: 'Resistance to occupation by all means is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws. At the heart of it lies the armed resistance.' By 'Palestine' HAMAS means the area between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan, which also includes the territory of the State of Israel. Western countries such as Germany are seen by HAMAS as a haven where the organization focuses on collecting donations, recruiting new supporters, and propagating its propaganda." — Annual report of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (_Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz, BfV_), 2019





Mindful said:


> "The goal of HAMAS is the establishment of an Islamist state in the entire territory of 'Palestine'


Hamas does not have enough influence to do that.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like not having access to the Western Wall is “ peace and equality “or the Fatah party with their LEGO showing ALL of Israel as Palestine ? Another stupid remark.  That will never happen.
Click to expand...


I'm on your side but the only issue you ever bring up is the Western Wall.  There are alot of other layers to this conflict than that.  I can assure you that Jews will never give up access to the Kotel ever again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Feminism in the Arab world | All About Women 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also most of your posts are nonsensical.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't blame your reading comprehension problems on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. Don’t blame your inability to answer the question on anything other than your inability to answer the question.
> 
> Justice. What does it mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Justice means living in peace and equality in your homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like not having access to the Western Wall is “ peace and equality “or the Fatah party with their LEGO showing ALL of Israel as Palestine ? Another stupid remark.  That will never happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm on your side but the only issue you ever bring up is the Western Wall.  There are alot of other layers to this conflict than that.  I can assure you that Jews will never give up access to the Kotel ever again.
Click to expand...


I do that only because the PLO OFFICIALLY made a formal statement that Jews are NOT entitled to the Western Wall. 
  I have also posted You Tube Videos where Abbas has stated ALL of Israel is “ Arab Palestine”. and Arabs being interviewed what would happen to the Israelis if they ever got control of what is now Israel


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



I like it! It’s not the Western Wall


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abbas to tell UN: The goal is Jerusalem

Notice how he Refers to Muslims and Christians, NOT the Jewish people?  Give him that shovel an
*Al-Quds (disambiguation) - Wikipedia*

Al-Quds (disambiguation) - Wikipedia
_Al_-_Quds_ (Arabic: القدس ) is the Arabic name for the city of Jerusalem, literally meaning "The Holy One" (quds = holy). It may also refer to: ...
d let him dig a deeper hole for himself 




"A new phase has begun in the struggle to preserve the overall goal of our Palestinian people, the Arab nation and the world as a whole, and this is the issue of Al-Quds, with its holy sites to Islam and Christianity, its heritage and history, which some are trying to counterfeit by contradicting all international laws which have always established that Al-Quds is Palestinian and Arab," Abu Rudeina said.

Anyone notice there is NO mention of Jewish Holy Sites?  Tinmore, where is that living in " peace and equality" you talk about?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/ent/?ent-type=jewish-holy-sites


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/jordanianocuupationjerusalem.as

 If the Palestinians ever got control of E.Jerusalem what is to stop them from doing what Jordan did?  The answer is " nothing" 




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Jewish Holy Sites Archives - iTravelJerusalem


''


----------



## P F Tinmore

Less than lethal weapons.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli bulldozers demolished on Wednesday morning a laundry facility belonging to the family of Wadah Abu Dayya in the town of al-Jib, northwest of the occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel demolishes 4 Palestinian shops in occupied Jerusalem*






Israel demolishes 4 Palestinian shops in occupied Jerusalem - Palestine Post 24


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces attack Palestinians and journalists while demolishing a well in al Khalil city


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces raid Al Issawiya village and remove all of the Palestinian flags and Photos of the martyr Mohammed Obeid hanging in Walls and doors


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in West Bank*






Activist Ghassan Daghlass said that settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in the southern parts of the village of Burin, south of Nablus.

The settlers, who were protected by the Israeli occupation forces, descended from the illegal Israeli Jewish settlement of Yitzhar and damaged many of the trees before burning them.

Daghlass said the Israeli army prevented Palestinian firetrucks from reaching the area to put off the fire, making it to expand and cause heavy losses to the Palestinian farmers.

Israeli settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in West Bank - Palestine Post 24


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

The truth about illegal construction in Jerusalem

_Human rights lawyer Justus Reid Weiner, a scholar-in-residence at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, has just completed the first systematic study of illegal construction in Jerusalem._


Illegal construction has reached epidemic proportions. A senior Palestinian official boasted that they have built 6,000 homes without permits during the last 4 years, of which less than 200 were demolished by the city.
This frantic pace of _illegal_ construction continues despite the fact that the city has authorized more than 36,000 permits for new housing units in the Arab sector, more than enough to meet the needs of Arab residents through _legal_ construction until 2020.
Arab residents who wish to build legally may consult urban plans translated into Arabic for their convenience and receive individual assistance from Arabic-speaking city employees.
Both Arabs and Jews typically wait 4-6 weeks for permit approval, enjoy a similar rate of application approvals, and pay an identical fee ($3,600) for water and sewage hook-ups on the same size living unit.
The same procedures for administrative demolition orders apply to both Jews and Arabs in all parts of the city, as a final backstop to remove structures built illegally on roadbeds or land designated for schools, clinics, and the like.
The Palestinian Authority and Arab governments have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in an intentional campaign to subsidize and encourage massive illegal construction in the Arab sector, seeing this as part of their "demographic war" against Israel.
Many large, multi-story, luxury structures have been built by criminals on land they do not own, frequently land belonging to Palestinian Christians living abroad.
This epidemic of illegal construction is similar to illegal building that troubles cities in scores of countries worldwide and where the authorities utilize the law to demolish the structures.
More than any single factor, the 35-year-long boycott of municipal politics by the Palestinian leadership has resulted in the continued imbalance in municipal services in Arab neighborhoods vis-a-vis Jewish neighborhoods.
Despite frequent accusations that the city's planning policy seeks to "Judaize" Jerusalem, the Arab population of the city has _increased_ since 1967 from 27% to 32%. Moreover, since 1967 new Arab construction has outpaced Jewish construction.


The myth that the "poor victimized Arabs" of Jerusalem are unable find housing, are homeless, and unable to obtain building permits is a myth carefully constructed by the Palestinians to disguise their lawlessness and demonize Jews.  Nothing new to see here.


----------



## mudwhistle




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in West Bank*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Activist Ghassan Daghlass said that settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in the southern parts of the village of Burin, south of Nablus.
> 
> The settlers, who were protected by the Israeli occupation forces, descended from the illegal Israeli Jewish settlement of Yitzhar and damaged many of the trees before burning them.
> 
> Daghlass said the Israeli army prevented Palestinian firetrucks from reaching the area to put off the fire, making it to expand and cause heavy losses to the Palestinian farmers.
> 
> Israeli settlers set fire to hundreds of olive trees in West Bank - Palestine Post 24





Israel shells Hamas post after explosion of balloon-borne bomb from Gaza



Gaza incendiary balloons spark dozens of fires in southern Israel



  Keep Posting !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A number of Palestinian citizens were injured by Israeli gas bombs on Saturday during a protest in Bethlehem in solidarity with the residents of Wadi al-Hummus neighborhood near Jerusalem where tens of homes are threatened with demolition.






Palestinians injured in protest against home demolition


----------



## P F Tinmore

On this day 5 years ago, Israel indiscriminately shelled Shujaiya, one of Gaza's most crowded neighborhoods, killing about 100 civilians, most of whom were children and women.


----------



## P F Tinmore

On #NelsonMandelaDay we remember an anti-apartheid hero who taught us to never give up fighting for what is right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Grape harvest in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian woman makes trays and baskets by weaving natural fibers at her home in Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Typical Palestinian breakfast


----------



## P F Tinmore

It's been 5 years since Israel brutally killed the innocent Bakr boys. Their crime? Playing football on Gaza beach.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel and racism are two sides of the same coin.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Second martyr today: Tareq Dhabanya, 7 years old, was driving his bicycle near his home in the West Bank when an Israeli settler deliberately rammed his car into him on Monday. Tareq was pronounced dead this morning.
Rest in peace angel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

This morning the Palestinian detainee Nassar Taqatqa, 31, died while being held in solitary confinement in Israeli prison. Nassar didn't have any health issues and was kidnapped by Israeli forces from his home in Bethlehem only a month ago.
Rest in peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man sits in his damaged living room in Gaza city on 12 July 2014. Photo by Ezz al-Zanoun.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...


Why did you put the Jordanian flag around Eretz Yisrael?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did you put the Jordanian flag around Eretz Yisrael?
Click to expand...


Because he can’t stand the fact that Israel exists.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> It's been 5 years since Israel brutally killed the innocent Bakr boys. Their crime? Playing football on Gaza beach.








2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers - Wikipedia






https://www.texasgopvote.com/restor...o-fogel-family-tragedy-action-required-002640

May all of you rest in peace


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did you put the Jordanian flag around Eretz Yisrael?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because he can’t stand the fact that Israel exists.
Click to expand...


He should be ashamed of himself.  Just recently, archaeologists uncovered two cities from Israel's glorious past--Ziklag, where David hid from King Saul, and Shiloh, where the Tabernacle stood.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Typical Palestinian breakfast



Typical breakfast all over the ME, nothing "Palestinian" about it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Palestinian breakfast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical breakfast all over the ME, nothing "Palestinian" about it.
Click to expand...


There he goes again; cutting and pasting mindless pictures.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why did you put the Jordanian flag around Eretz Yisrael?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because he can’t stand the fact that Israel exists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He should be ashamed of himself.  Just recently, archaeologists uncovered two cities from Israel's glorious past--Ziklag, where David hid from King Saul, and Shiloh, where the Tabernacle stood.
Click to expand...


Seriously, consider the source. Relish the fact he’s consumed with the fact that the Jewish State exists


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Second martyr today: Tareq Dhabanya, 7 years old, was driving his bicycle near his home in the West Bank when an Israeli settler deliberately rammed his car into him on Monday. Tareq was pronounced dead this morning.
> Rest in peace angel.




There seems to be only a single source for this incident and very little information is supplied in the original report which quote "local sources".  There are also some discrepancies in various repetitions from the source (such as the town the child was from and where the incident occurred).

There is absolutely no evidence that this was an intentional act and not a simple (and tragic) traffic accident, and any claim that it was is nothing more than the typical "assumption of Jewish evil" which plagues the Team Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> This morning the Palestinian detainee Nassar Taqatqa, 31, died while being held in solitary confinement in Israeli prison. Nassar didn't have any health issues and was kidnapped by Israeli forces from his home in Bethlehem only a month ago.
> Rest in peace.




Oh look.  Who is going to be shocked to know that there is more to this story than "evil Jews tortured prisoner to death"?

Seems while the family says that Taqatqa did not suffer from any medical conditions, medical files indicate that he had a history of seizures and neurological problems.  Some reports also say he had been suffering from pneumonia.  He was taken to the hospital a couple of days before the incident, examined and released.  He was moved from his cell to the medical ward, apparently for mental health reasons, and this is where he died, reportedly from a stroke.  

Once again, in the media's rush to paint Jews as evil, facts become optional.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel and racism are two sides of the same coin.




Okay, some of those statements are definitely racist and I strongly condemn those.  

But what is racist about wanting an Israeli flag (sovereignty) over the Temple Mount, the holiest place in the world for the Jewish people?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A man carries the body of a Palestinian boy who was killed in an Israeli airstrike on his family’s home in Gaza city in July 2014.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians protest against an Israeli military order to confiscate lands near the city of Nablus, northern West Bank, for settlement expansion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A boy salvages a toy from his destroyed house during the 2014 Israeli assault on Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PALESTINIAN RIGHT OF RETURN David Letwin*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Dozens of Palestinians perform Friday prayer outdoors in Wadi al-Hummus neighborhood in Jerusalem in protest at an Israeli order to demolish over 100 homes in the area to make way for Jewish-only settlement expansion.


----------



## Mindful

After a year of protests, the Palestinians failed to win support for their demand to be given the homes belonging to Israelis; they failed to infiltrate Israel and wreak havoc; they failed to win international sympathy and they failed to end the blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt.

During the course of the year, this is what they did accomplish:


Launched 1,300 rockets and missiles on Friday or Saturday “immediately after mass violent riots.”
Threw stones, marbles, ball bearings, grenades and improvised explosive devices at soldiers.
Planted mines and booby-trapped explosive devices along the border fence.
Launched thousands of aerial incendiary devices that caused 2,000 separate fires, which burnt more than 8,500 acres of land, including approximately 3,200 acres of nature reserves and 2,700 acres of forest.
Burned tires.
Sabotaged security infrastructure of the border fence.
Briefly infiltrated southern Israel before being captured or killed.
Conducted military exercises, including training for infiltration and abduction scenarios, which would be executed if terrorists succeeded in getting past the security infrastructure and forces (Anna Ahronheim, “IDF Probe Of Gaza Riots Reveals Nearly 1,500 Rockets Fired Since March 30,” _Jerusalem Post_, February 28, 2019).
Rather than help the people of Gaza, who lack jobs and basic resources, Hamas diverted funds to building weapons and tunnels. The group exploits their people’s desperation by paying them to protest and busing them to the fence to serve as human shields (Adam Rasgon, “Ahead Of Fresh Standoff, Hamas Reveals Payouts To Injured Protesters,” _Jerusalem Post_, April 5, 2018).

JVL


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: Palestinians Sing of Trump’s ‘Horns and Fangs’ in Anti-US Anthem

Don't you  Just love it!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*[FULL PROGRAM] NOT BACKING DOWN: ISRAEL, FREE SPEECH & THE BATTLE FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

_Justice for Some_ represents an important trend in scholarship, which seeks to combinge academic objectivity with undisguised ethical and political engagement. Such a combination of goals might seem appropriate when dealing with a struggle as poignant as Israel/Palestine, but it has not been so treated in mainstream scholarship.

The force of law vs. the law of force: a review of Noura Erakat’s ‘Justice for Some’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine Writes Back


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

*Did Tlaib is a Democrat because she hates America and Israel*


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

P F Tinmore said:


>


Tlaib is a racist


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

*The whole world benefits from Israel. 
The only things that the Palestinians produce are hate and violence.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Farming in Gaza*

Palestine is known for its fertile land. It's famous for its quality olive oil (pdf)and other vegetables and fruits products. Many ancient conflicts were fought around this “land of honey and blessings”. The Gaza Strip in the south is famous for its olives, strawberries, and orange trees, and almost as famous for its grapefruits as the West Bank city of Hebron.

As we approached, Mazen pointed his finger at the bulldozed wasteground beyond Salah El Din street, saying, "That was our friend Abu Ali’s chicken farm, Al Samouni Farm. Nothing is left. That farm alone, not so long ago, bred enough birds to feed the entire population of Gaza, instead of begging for aid from Israel."

Thousands of agricultural hectares have been bulldozed and millions of trees, uprooted.

After that, we split the land up between ten of us, but by this stage the Israeli army had a habit of turning up just before each harvest to flatten his landholding or shell it with missiles from their tanks*.*

*Farming in Gaza*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Fuck the constitution. I am getting paid to vote for this bill.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






Tlaib, Omar Fail: U.S. House Overwhelmingly Passes Anti-BDS Resolution

 KEEP POSTING!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: Hamas Rounds Up Children Under 12, Sticks Them on Front Line

Those TERRIBLE ISRAELIS !!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Fuck the constitution. I am getting paid to vote for this bill.




 Maybe she should teach " her people" to treat others the way THEY would like to be treated.  Is that asking too much?  Of course it is.   Acting like a bunch of Uncivilized Animals 

Why was this Saudi Attacked by Palestinians om Temple Mount?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*
> 
> **



Quote:

_(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are.  Those are facts that can not be denied.  

Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history.  Jews were persecuted in Europe.  The Holocaust happened in Europe.  Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust.  They came as colonizers. 
_

So much wrong with this.  

It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people.  There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.  

The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience.  They both can have happened.

There is no actual exclusivity here.  Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie.  Its pie.  There are lots of slices to go around.  

BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were *FIRST* persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.  

The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland.  All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.  

Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them.  The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere.  Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.  

If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> _(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are.  Those are facts that can not be denied.
> 
> Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history.  Jews were persecuted in Europe.  The Holocaust happened in Europe.  Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust.  They came as colonizers.
> _
> 
> So much wrong with this.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people.  There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.
> 
> The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience.  They both can have happened.
> 
> There is no actual exclusivity here.  Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie.  Its pie.  There are lots of slices to go around.
> 
> BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were *FIRST* persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland.  All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.
> 
> Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them.  The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere.  Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.
> 
> If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.
Click to expand...

What tribe are you?

What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,

What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?


*(COMMENT)*

You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.

By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
_Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> _(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are.  Those are facts that can not be denied.
> 
> Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history.  Jews were persecuted in Europe.  The Holocaust happened in Europe.  Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust.  They came as colonizers.
> _
> 
> So much wrong with this.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people.  There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.
> 
> The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience.  They both can have happened.
> 
> There is no actual exclusivity here.  Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie.  Its pie.  There are lots of slices to go around.
> 
> BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were *FIRST* persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland.  All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.
> 
> Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them.  The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere.  Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.
> 
> If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
Click to expand...



Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on individual status. It depends on recognition of the collective.  And the reality of Jewish history is not subject to questioning or erasure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> _(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are.  Those are facts that can not be denied.
> 
> Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history.  Jews were persecuted in Europe.  The Holocaust happened in Europe.  Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust.  They came as colonizers.
> _
> 
> So much wrong with this.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people.  There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.
> 
> The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience.  They both can have happened.
> 
> There is no actual exclusivity here.  Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie.  Its pie.  There are lots of slices to go around.
> 
> BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were *FIRST* persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland.  All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.
> 
> Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them.  The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere.  Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.
> 
> If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on individual status. It depends on recognition of the collective.  And the reality of Jewish history is not subject to questioning or erasure.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.

Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.



Are you claiming that NO JEWS -- not a single JEW --  originated and had a history in that territory?  If so PROVE IT.

If not, my statements stands that the collective is the relevant factor here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming that NO JEWS -- not a single JEW --  originated and had a history in that territory?  If so PROVE IT.
> 
> If not, my statements stands that the collective is the relevant factor here.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming that NO JEWS -- not a single JEW --  originated and had a history in that territory?  If so PROVE IT.
> 
> If not, my statements stands that the collective is the relevant factor here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Irrelevant.
Click to expand...


The collective Jewish people are irrelevant?

Oh yeah. Because you think killing them is permissible?!

Oops. Wrong.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *PF Tinmore*
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.



European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:

I even took a DNA test to prove it. Although
*I am "100% European"* according to them​


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib to receive 'big welcome' in family's West Bank village *

*



*

Preparations are under way in Beit Ur al-Fauqa, 14 km. west of Ramallah, to welcome Palestinian-American Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib when she visits her hometown next month.

Tlaib’s mother, Fatmeh, and grandmother, Um Issa, traveled to Jordan earlier this week to attend a wedding of a relative. The two women are expected to return to their village in the coming days to participate in preparations for the congresswoman’s visit. The Tlaib clan is one of three clans in Beit Ur al-Fauqa, home to some 1,000 people. The two other clans in the village are Samara and Zahran.

Residents boasted that the village has one of the highest percentage of educated people. More than 20 village residents hold high positions in Palestinian Authority ministries and other Palestinian institutions in Ramallah, including banks.

Members of the three clans told The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday that “everyone in the village” will come out to greet Rep. Tlaib during her visit. “We’re all proud of her,” said Ahmed Abdullah Tlaib, one of her uncles. “Of course, everyone here is excited that she’s coming to visit her village.”

Rashida Tlaib to receive 'big welcome' in family's West Bank village


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *PF Tinmore*
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:
> 
> I even took a DNA test to prove it. Although
> *I am "100% European"* according to them​
Click to expand...


As I said before, and you deliberately left out the rest of my post, the DNA test also showed markers that confirmed my ancestors came from the Middle East, most likely from the Syria region.  They even supplied all the details in a comprehensive report, including a map showing the migration from Syria to Europe.  I wonder why you left all of that out.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *PF Tinmore*
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:
> 
> I even took a DNA test to prove it. Although
> *I am "100% European"* according to them​
Click to expand...


Remember that the Arch of Titus in Rome very clearly shows Jewish slaves being transported to Rome from Judea, after 70 CE.  Likely there were also some intermarriages along the way.  Let's also remember that many Arab nomads came to Palestine/Judea from Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries during the 1920s, according to an official British report.  And we can also see from Shirley Temper, Tinmore's little girlfriend, and Queen Noor of Jordan, that even Arabs have intermarried with Europeans along the way.  I myself met a friendly blond Palestinian lad at Abraham's Tomb in Hebron.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> _(quote from Barak Obama)The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile and persecution and fresh memories of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they are.  Those are facts that can not be denied.
> 
> Now, in choosing to emphasize only that history and ignoring the context in which we live, President Obama is doing something which has been done to Palestinians for many many years which is to erase their actual history and experience and to replace it exclusively with Jewish history.  Jews were persecuted in Europe.  The Holocaust happened in Europe.  Didn't happen in Palestine and when Jews arrived in Palestine initially, they didn't come as victims of the Holocaust.  They came as colonizers.
> _
> 
> So much wrong with this.
> 
> It is perfectly okay to emphasize and highlight the experience of the Jewish people.  There is nothing inherently WRONG or IMMORAL about acknowledging the experience of the Jewish people and their exile, persecution and genocide.
> 
> The Jewish experience can live with and alongside the Arab Palestinian experience.  They both can have happened.
> 
> There is no actual exclusivity here.  Just because Jewish people have a piece of the exile and persecution pie, doesn't mean that Arab Palestinians weren't served a piece of the same pie.  Its pie.  There are lots of slices to go around.
> 
> BUT the Jewish people, while they absolutely were persecuted in Europe, and in Arab nations in the Middle East, and really pretty much anywhere you want to measure it, were *FIRST* persecuted, exiled, conquered, invaded, colonized, genocided, ethnically cleansed, dhimminized in their HOMELAND of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> The first SHOAH (calamity, nakba) for the Jewish people occurred in the place where they originated, in their homeland.  All the other Shoahs are EXTRA.
> 
> Jewish reclamation of traditional indigenous territory does not depend on having Shoah's committed against them.  The CLAIM to Jewish traditional indigenous territory is not dependent on being persecuted elsewhere.  Nor does the RIGHT to traditional indigenous territory arise from persecution in the Diaspora.
> 
> If you want to argue that forced removal of a people from territory creates a condition where return = colonization, AND condition colonization = evil, THEN there is no acceptable path for Arab Palestinian return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
Click to expand...


The tribe of Levi.  They didn't have an exact portion, but lived in 48 cities, designated especially for them.  These cities were interspersed throughout the lands of Israel and Judea.  They were the religious teachers to the rest of the tribes.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> As I said before, and you deliberately left out the rest of my post, the DNA test also showed markers that confirmed my ancestors came from the Middle East, most likely from the Syria region. They even supplied all the details in a comprehensive report, including a map showing the migration from Syria to Europe. I wonder why you left all of that out.



Let's be reasonable here, ForeverYoung:

*"I'm 100% european but my ancestors are people from the Middle East"* is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms.

It's similar to this insanity:

"I, Idi Amin, Uganda's dictator, am 100% african but my ancestors came from Asia"

You're not even 99% european and 1% semitic.

Genetically, you're an european from head to toe.

The genetic markers you talk about so much are vestigial traces of DNA shared by all Europeans regardless of religion.

And even these microscopic traces of middle eastern genetic heritage cannot be considered "jewish" for the simple fact that nobody has a DNA sample from an ancient Jew like Caiaphas for example to compare it to yours.

Let's be reasonable... that's all I ask.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

José said:


> Originally posted by *PF Tinmore*
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:
Click to expand...


Again, we are not discussing individual Jews.  Or should not be discussing individual Jews.  We are discussing the global collective of the Jewish people, whose origins, without doubt, are in the homeland of Israel, Judea and Samaria.  

It is ridiculous in the extreme to attempt to claim that the entire Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real" Jews and have no connection to their historical homeland.  It is not only a vile ideology, its irrational in the extreme.  It is literally a denial of obvious reality.  

What other ethnic or cultural group faces the same irrational scrutiny?  Do we argue that the people of Quebec didn't really originate in France?  Do we argue that the historical homeland of the Japanese people isn't Japan?  Do we argue that African Americans aren't really from Africa?  Come on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *PF Tinmore*
> Are you saying that you are not from any of the 12 tribes and you have no ancestors from that territory.
> 
> Then "return" seems like an odd term to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European jews who can prove even the most diluted ancestral link to the biblical jews of the Middle East are in awfully short supply here as well as the rest of the planet:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, we are not discussing individual Jews.  Or should not be discussing individual Jews.  We are discussing the global collective of the Jewish people, whose origins, without doubt, are in the homeland of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
> 
> It is ridiculous in the extreme to attempt to claim that the entire Jewish people in the Diaspora are not "real" Jews and have no connection to their historical homeland.  It is not only a vile ideology, its irrational in the extreme.  It is literally a denial of obvious reality.
> 
> What other ethnic or cultural group faces the same irrational scrutiny?  Do we argue that the people of Quebec didn't really originate in France?  Do we argue that the historical homeland of the Japanese people isn't Japan?  Do we argue that African Americans aren't really from Africa?  Come on.
Click to expand...

I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.


----------



## José

I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith *years* before he finally decided to take his DNA test.

I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.

If you ask me:

Are you a psychic, José?

I will say:

No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.

I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.

A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.



See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews.  I think you've said that you are part German, yes?  So are you "from there" (Germany)?


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith *years* before he finally decided to take his DNA test.
> 
> I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.
> 
> If you ask me:
> 
> Are you a psychic, José?
> 
> I will say:
> 
> No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.
> 
> I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.
> 
> A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.



Wow.  Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them.  I'd call that a super power.

Tell me:  

Ashkenazi or no?  Don't cheat.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> I was already telling ForeverYoung he was an european converted to the jewish faith *years* before he finally decided to take his DNA test.
> 
> I anticipated his DNA test results for him two or three times before he decided to spend his money on it.
> 
> If you ask me:
> 
> Are you a psychic, José?
> 
> I will say:
> 
> No. I just don't need any genetic test to tell me something that's in front of my eyes.
> 
> I don't need any DNA test to tell me Askhenazis are the segment of the european population who converted to the Jewish faith.
> 
> A pair of functional eyes are more than enough for me.



Well, I didn't convert.  Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did.  Do you think Mrs. Suha Arafat is a Semitic Palestinian or not, if we're going down that road?  She's blond, you know.  Shouldn't Palestinians be held to the same standard and criteria as Israelis?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews.  I think you've said that you are part German, yes?  So are you "from there" (Germany)?
Click to expand...

I can rightly say I am from Germany because my grandfather (mother's side) was born there and immigrated after WWI. My grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch. I have no clue when they came here. I cannot make that same claim about France or Italy. Even if I were to "return" that would not give me any exclusive rights. I would just be like everyone else.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Wow.  Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them.  I'd call that a super power.
> 
> Tell me:
> 
> Ashkenazi or no?  Don't cheat.








This is one of the famous evil traps Shusha sets up to catch unwary posters and mislead them..

The guy is probably an askhenazi actor wearing 3 tons of make up to look like "brown people" = arab Jews.

Do husbands have a right to discipline their wives when they exhibit a consistent pattern of evildoings like the trap above?

I'd say yes... but in Shusha's specific case we have the following complication:

*I am a self-defense instructor and a martial artist. *
*I have no problem using violence when necessary.*​



*As a trained martial artist I have a *
*great **deal of respect for Krav Maga.*




​So just imagine the problem:

Shusha's husband tries to discipline his beautiful canadian wife and ends up being disciplined by her.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> Well, I didn't convert. Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did.



If I were you, FY, I'd be saying something like this:

Fuck José.

Fuck Tinmore.

Fuck the reality of my genetic heritage.

Fuck the correct interpretation of my DNA test.

I paid for it with my own money and have every right to interpret it any way I want.

My interpretation of my DNA test makes me happy so fuck everything and everybody who tries to take my happiness away from me.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> Well, I didn't convert. Perhaps, my great-great-great-great grandparents did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, FY, I'd be saying something like this:
> 
> Fuck José.
> 
> Fuck Tinmore.
> 
> Fuck the reality of my genetic heritage.
> 
> Fuck the correct interpretation of my DNA test.
> 
> I paid for it with my own money and have every right to interpret it any way I want.
> 
> My interpretation of my DNA test makes me happy so fuck everything and everybody who tries to take my happiness away from me.
Click to expand...


My happiness and identity do not depend on a DNA test.  But you didn't answer my questions about Mrs. Arafart, Queen Noor, Shirley Temper, and the blond Palestinian I befriended at Abraham's Tomb.


----------



## Mindful

A second news item comes from Lebanon, where “Palestinian” refugees — that is, the descendants of those Arabs who left what had been Mandatory Palestine just before, during, and after the 1948-49 war — have been engaged in protesting a new law regarding employment of non-Lebanese. Thousands of Palestinians protested in and around their camps on July 19 to demand that the Lebanese government end its requirement that all undocumented non-Lebanese must obtain a work permit to gain employment.The intensifying protests were triggered by the closing down of two Palestinian-owned businesses last week, with the demonstrators calling on the government to reconsider its crackdown on undocumented non-Lebanese workers that they say is affecting their livelihood.

Critics have claimed that the Ministry of Labour’s recent measures are part of a campaign directed at the larger Syrian refugee population to force them to return home.


Is the Umma Shatter-Proof? (Part 2)


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> Wow.  Those are some eyes that can determine someone's ancestry just by looking at them.  I'd call that a super power.
> 
> Tell me:
> 
> Ashkenazi or no?  Don't cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the famous evil traps Shusha sets up to catch unwary posters and mislead them..
> 
> The guy is probably an askhenazi actor wearing 3 tons of make up to look like "brown people" = arab Jews.
> 
> Do husbands have a right to discipline their wives when they exhibit a consistent pattern of evildoings like the trap above?
> 
> I'd say yes... but in Shusha's specific case we have the following complication:
> 
> *I am a self-defense instructor and a martial artist. *
> *I have no problem using violence when necessary.*​
> 
> 
> 
> *As a trained martial artist I have a *
> *great **deal of respect for Krav Maga.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​So just imagine the problem:
> 
> Shusha's husband tries to discipline his beautiful canadian wife and ends up being disciplined by her.
Click to expand...


Has anyone ever told you that you are more than a little bit creepy?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still think that "return" is an odd term to use for people who are not from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, the problem is that you have a wonky idea of what "from there" means. But only when it comes to Jews.  I think you've said that you are part German, yes?  So are you "from there" (Germany)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can rightly say I am from Germany because my grandfather (mother's side) was born there and immigrated after WWI. My grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch. I have no clue when they came here. I cannot make that same claim about France or Italy. Even if I were to "return" that would not give me any exclusive rights. I would just be like everyone else.
Click to expand...


You can rightly say you are from Germany because your ancestors were born there -- even if you have no clue WHEN they moved from there.  The Jewish people can claim the same.  It really is that simple.  

And if you were to "return" there, you wouldn't need any exclusive rights because Germany, as a State for the German people, already has those exclusive rights.  That is, the exclusive rights to maintain and preserve the culture of the German people.  Obviously while ensuring civil rights to all.  Just like in Israel.
(Palestine and Gaza, however, seem unable to even entertain the concept of civil rights for Jews).


----------



## P F Tinmore

13 year old journalist Janna Jihad from #NabiSaleh interviewing Rep. Betty Mccollum of Minnesota on human rights, occupation & H.R. 2407 - No Way to Treat a Child legislation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Morocco condemns Israel’s demolitions in Sur Baher






RABAT, (PIC)

Morocco’s foreign ministry has denounced Israel‘s mass home demolitions in the Palestinian town of Sur Baher, east of Occupied Jerusalem.

Last Thursday, minister of foreign affairs Nasser Bourita said that Morocco “expresses its firm condemnation of the demolition by the Israeli authorities of houses belonging to Palestinian citizens.”

  Read more at  
Morocco condemns Israel’s demolitions in Sur Baher
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Father Abdullah July sits among the worshippers performing Friday prayers on the ruins of destroyed houses in the holy town of pictures....
Religion for God and homeland for these...
These are our Palestinians that bring us together.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in #Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian students are celebrating their success at the secondary school examination.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrate Traditional Dress Day this week. Nothing beats the beauty of hand stitched thobes!


----------



## P F Tinmore

If this is not terrorism, what is it then?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Women carrying water jars from a water well near Nablus, Palestine, in 1890


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldier assaults human rights activist Aref Jaber to prevent him from documenting the Israeli demolition of an agricultural pool in Hebron on Tuesday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Abdel Majid Abdel Hadi was sworn-in as the Chief Justice of the city of Patterson, New Jersey. He is originally from Deir Dibwan in the Ramallah and al-Bireh governorate in the central West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good Morning .. Aerial photo for the center of Gaza city.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign (SeaMAC) launches a new month-long advertising campaign on public buses in San Francisco.
#BoycottIsrael


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If this is not terrorism, what is it then?




Enforcement of law.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldier assaults human rights activist Aref Jaber to prevent him from documenting the Israeli demolition of an agricultural pool in Hebron on Tuesday.




Its a stock photo.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.




Arabs have built 6000 illegal buildings in East Jerusalem alone.  Israel has some catching up to do.  No sovereign nation should permit this kind of blatant lawlessness.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have built 6000 illegal buildings in East Jerusalem alone.  Israel has some catching up to do.  No sovereign nation should permit this kind of blatant lawlessness.
Click to expand...

According to the foreigners.


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is not terrorism, what is it then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enforcement of law.
Click to expand...



Its true.  You DO know that sovereign nations are fully permitted to create and enforce laws, right?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
Click to expand...

BS"D

Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
and communities of Israel who live in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.

Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehudah.

What else do You want to know?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have built 6000 illegal buildings in East Jerusalem alone.  Israel has some catching up to do.  No sovereign nation should permit this kind of blatant lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the foreigners.
Click to expand...



Well no.  According to official spokespersons for the PA.  They brag about their lawlessness.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
Click to expand...


Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who live in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehudah.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
Click to expand...

And those who went to Palestine can trace that linage?

Link?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.
Click to expand...


Thanks! That's heartwarming,
And I see You're still kicking it, which is even better.

I've read a couple pages here and there in the absence but only swiftly.
Did Your attitude change anyhow, new realizations?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who live in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehudah.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And those who went to Palestine can trace that linage?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Of course, generally speaking.* Museum of the Jewish People in Tel Aviv | Beit Hatfutsot*
But more specifically, it's not only about a tribe, but specific lineages. *http://www.shealtiel.com/shealtielold/thehistory/david.asp*

We've been a small family after all...for now.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Hold your breath till it happens


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks! That's heartwarming,
> And I see You're still kicking it, which is even better.
> 
> I've read a couple pages here and there in the absence but only swiftly.
> Did Your attitude change anyhow, new realizations?
Click to expand...



Same old.  Still battling disgusting antisemitism and hoping that someone with intelligent and well-reasoned arguments will happen along on Team Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> And those who went to Palestine can trace that linage?



Of course they can.  Just because you don't accept HOW they trace their lineage, doesn't mean they can't.  How do any people in the world trace their lineage over time?


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"De
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks! That's heartwarming,
> And I see You're still kicking it, which is even better.
> 
> I've read a couple pages here and there in the absence but only swiftly.
> Did Your attitude change anyhow, new realizations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same old.  Still battling disgusting antisemitism and hoping that someone with intelligent and well-reasoned arguments will happen along on Team Palestine.
Click to expand...

 
About what,
You drive around Ramallah and on the other side You see Psagot,
Go to Hebron and look at Kiryat Arb'a, and those are 2 cities that are actually one.

And it's not as dangerous as they make it look.
Hebron, when no special holidays, is actually boring and quiet. Like at granny's.
And they consider it "the" hottest place.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who live in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehudah.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
Click to expand...


There are also many Levites around...I am one.  Ethiopian Jews are from the Tribe of Dan.  Indian Jews are from the Tribe of Menashe.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have built 6000 illegal buildings in East Jerusalem alone.  Israel has some catching up to do.  No sovereign nation should permit this kind of blatant lawlessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the foreigners.
Click to expand...


Israeli Jews aren't foreigners.  If you would go to Israel at least once in your life, you would see that the land is full of Jewish history, in every nook and cranny.  Every day archeology is uncovering more Jewish history, even though the Arabs who live there try to destroy these artifacts and cover them up.  I wrote a book called Hollywood and the Bible, available on Amazon.  All these movies are about Jewish history, not Palestinian.  Jesus himself was a Jew.  So, to repeat, Jews are not foreigners in Eretz Yisrael, also known as Judea.  Jews are from Judea and Arabs are from Arabia.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> 
> 
> BS"De
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks! That's heartwarming,
> And I see You're still kicking it, which is even better.
> 
> I've read a couple pages here and there in the absence but only swiftly.
> Did Your attitude change anyhow, new realizations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same old.  Still battling disgusting antisemitism and hoping that someone with intelligent and well-reasoned arguments will happen along on Team Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> About what,
> You drive around Ramallah and on the other side You see Psagot,
> Go to Hebron and look at Kiryat Arb'a, and those are 2 cities that are actually one.
> 
> And it's not as dangerous as they make it look.
> Hebron, when no special holidays, is actually boring and quiet. Like at granny's.
> And they consider it "the" hottest place.
Click to expand...


Were you allowed to visit the Tombs of Isaac our father and Rebecca our mother, when you were in Hebron recently?  It's a disgrace that the Muslim Wakf has closed off that part of the Tomb of the Patriarchs to Jews.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ et al,

BLUF:  *IF* you are going back father than 1 June 1946 and you are trying to be relevant to the issues of today; *THEN* you have gone back too far.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

December in pictures: Palestine

A Palestinian man dressed up as Santa Claus gives artificial flowers to Palestinian protesters during the Great Return March protests, in Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> What kind of nonsense is this?  I mean really*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What tribe are you?
> 
> What part of the Holy Land are your ancestors from?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You may have noticed that many *ad hominem* argument forms have both fallacious _(which you are quite familiar with)_ and legitimate uses.
> 
> By questioning the tribal affiliation is by implication an attack on the person and not the content.  This is similar to the biased form:  Guilty by Association  Some tribes affiliations are positive in nature and some tribal affiliations are negative in nature.  But by even introducing the element of tribal affiliation → you introduce a bias.
> 
> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued strongly against oil and gas exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But what would you expect? She represents the city of San Francisco, which is loaded with environmentalists. If she didn’t take this position, she would be run out of office. Thus, her arguments on
> this issue really have no merit. _(Hurley, Patrick. 2008. A Concise Introduction to Logic, 10th edition. Belmont, CA:_
> _Wadsworth Cengage Learning, Page 144)_​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are 12 tribes of Israel. Asking is not an attack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BS"D
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who live in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehudah.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are also many Levites around...I am one.  Ethiopian Jews are from the Tribe of Dan.  Indian Jews are from the Tribe of Menashe.
Click to expand...


Our Rav is a Levi, and it's called "leharbitz Torah" for a reason, and then You realize what our sages said in the Chapters of Fathers : 

"Warm yourself by the fire of the Hachamim, but be beware lest you be burned by its embers; for their bite is the bite of a fox, their sting is the sting of a scorpion, their hiss is the hiss a serpent, and all their words are like fiery coals."

Or what the Torah tells us about Levi and Shim'on as brothers when they faced Shchem, and about the tribe of Levi when it stood by Moshe Rabbenu. 

When this is translated into hardcore Torah study, boy does it burn when they teach, melts words in stone and gives humility to inflamed egos.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> BS"De
> 
> Generally, communities of Israel who live in the northern hemisphere are of the tribe of Binyamin,
> and communities of Israel who  in the southern hemisphere are of the tribe of Yehudah.
> 
> Majority of Israel in Zion are Yehuda.
> 
> What else do You want to know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh!  You are back.  I was getting worried about you.  Good to see you.  You were missed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks! That's heartwarming,
> And I see You're still kicking it, which is even better.
> 
> I've read a couple pages here and there in the absence but only swiftly.
> Did Your attitude change anyhow, new realizations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same old.  Still battling disgusting antisemitism and hoping that someone with intelligent and well-reasoned arguments will happen along on Team Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> About what,
> You drive around Ramallah and on the other side You see Psagot,
> Go to Hebron and look at Kiryat Arb'a, and those are 2 cities that are actually one.
> 
> And it's not as dangerous as they make it look.
> Hebron, when no special holidays, is actually boring and quiet. Like at granny's.
> And they consider it "the" hottest place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Were you allowed to visit the Tombs of Isaac our father and Rebecca our mother, when you were in Hebron recently?  It's a disgrace that the Muslim Wakf has closed off that part of the Tomb of the Patriarchs to Jews.
Click to expand...


No I wasn't, it's open for Jews only for several days a year.
You're correct, it's a disgrace of G-d's name.

When You travel around the whole area of Judea Samaria across, it takes You no more than 2 hours.
And then one starts to realize that without all the the media having to feed on something and politicians having to sell an opinion, all the story is "sucked from the finger" as we say in Israel.
The place is mostly boring, overwhelmingly, and rich, with new mostly European middle class vehicles owned by subjects of PA and much simpler Israeli ones. So goes when looking at the housing, Arabs live in more improvised city structures but in multi store mansions and and private houses, while Israelis in that area do as well but in simpler and smaller ones, though more orderly.

Also there're no settlements really, You look at the Arab towns and the Israeli ones, they're all visibly modern and wealthy, many of one wouldn't tell until seeing a minorete. In most cases those who take pictures with sad faces in the crossings are just folks who go to work in the nearest Israeli town, where folks pay much more for living and luxury.

In my opinion, that place is actually boring, homely quiet place overall for most of the time,
until someone decides to make a news headline.


----------



## MJB12741

*Great Topic:  PALESTINE TODAY!*

read:Fatah and Palestinian Authority glorify and support terrorists: The case of Omar Abu Layla, who murdered two Israelis near Ariel - The Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Family of 3-year-old Mohammed Eleyyan, who is set to be interrogated by the police of the criminal sadistic Israeli occupation today in Jerusalem, accompany him outside the police station.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Free at last! Palestinian Journalist Lama Khater is free from Israeli gulags.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Gal Gadot, Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, and Ilhan Omar in the same video. Interesting!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Machines produced by Caterpillar and Hyundai were used in the demolition of over 100 Palestinian homes in Sur Baher in Occupied Jerusalem. Boycott until they stop arming Israel!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Offtopic, this is an American girl from Jersey talking about makeup.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Gal Gadot, Amani Al-Khatahtbeh, and Ilhan Omar in the same video. Interesting!



What's interesting, and what does this nonsense have to do with the thread?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Machines produced by Caterpillar and Hyundai were used in the demolition of over 100 Palestinian homes in Sur Baher in Occupied Jerusalem. Boycott until they stop arming Israel!



Irony is, Arabs who dominate Israeli construction industry, are the main customers of both Hyundai and Caterpillar  tools.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Family of 3-year-old Mohammed Eleyyan, who is set to be interrogated by the police of the criminal sadistic Israeli occupation today in Jerusalem, accompany him outside the police station.



She forgot to mention the teddybear was summoned for the next day to witness.
Otherwise doesn't sound too serious, not even for headlines in Arab media.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Family of 3-year-old Mohammed Eleyyan, who is set to be interrogated by the police of the criminal sadistic Israeli occupation today in Jerusalem, accompany him outside the police station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She forgot to mention the teddybear was summoned for the next day to witness.
> Otherwise doesn't sound too serious, not even for headlines in Arab media.
Click to expand...


Haha, that Pallywood picture of the Arab boy disguised as a Jewish boy, with fake side-curls, deserves a thread of its own.


----------



## José

This is one of the famous evil traps Shusha sets up to catch unwary posters and mislead them..

The guy is probably an askhenazi actor wearing 3 tons of make up to look like "brown people" = arab Jews.

Do husbands have a right to discipline their wives when they exhibit a consistent pattern of evildoings like the trap above?

I'd say yes... but in Shusha's specific case we have the following complication:

*I am a self-defense instructor and a martial artist.*
*I have no problem using violence when necessary.*​



*As a trained martial artist I have a*
*great **deal of respect for Krav Maga.*




​So just imagine the problem:

Shusha's husband tries to discipline his beautiful canadian wife and ends up being disciplined by her.




___________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Has anyone ever told you that you are more than a little bit creepy?





*​When I joined this Message Board in 2004 the Administrator was a guy named Gunny, an electrician who worked in California or Texas maybe.

He used to tell me:

José, you're a tough nut to crack.

You post a sequence of 10, 20, 30 good posts that contribute to the Board and then, all of a sudden, when nobody is expecting, you post a truckload of shit and throws all your reputation in the toilet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Why do all media hosts shill for Israel? It seems like they all read off the same script.


----------



## Shusha

> You post a sequence of 10, 20, 30 good posts that contribute to the Board and then, all of a sudden, when nobody is expecting, you post a truckload of shit and throws all your reputation in the toilet.



Well, the second half of that is right, anyway.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Leena Dallasheh: It's Time for Historians to Explode the Myth of Israeli Exceptionalism*

* *


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: How Palestinian Children Are Taught to Kill Jews


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Netanyahu: No Jew will be evicted from Judea and Samaria


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israelis and Palestinians can't agree on history because of the power imbalance*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Gordon: Historians Should Pressure Congress to Limit Aid to Israel*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How Should Historians Teach the Palestine-Israel Conflict?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Leena Dallasheh: It's Time for Historians to Explode the Myth of Israeli Exceptionalism*



The proposition is an oxymoron, by investing so much energy in trying convince everyone how something is mundane and average, You end up emboldening instead the unique that separates it from everything else.

For such a tiny country, to get so much attention, evoke such strong emotions of love and hate for it - makes it an exceptional nation. Don't You think?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israelis and Palestinians can't agree on history because of the power imbalance*



Sure there's a power imbalance -
Arabs think they need a 23rd country in the middle east, Jews think they are good with the one.

Why don't these historians ever mention the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Linda Gordon: Historians Should Pressure Congress to Limit Aid to Israel*




The impression that the US investment in Israel constitutes a favor, is completely false.
So called "aid" is a tool of strategic control.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad at First Unitarian Portland.


----------



## Mindful

*Life’s a Beach in Gaza*
By
David Lange
 - 
August 2, 2019

I am sure all of you would agree Tel Aviv beach is quite spectacular and you wouldn’t’ mind living near it.





Except the above photo is not of Tel Aviv beach. It is of Gaza beach.



Yet anti-Israel propagandists would like the world believe Gaza is a “concentration camp” and “open air prison.”





Funnily enough, the above beach photo is from another anti-Israel propaganda site – The Palestinian Information Center.

You have to your head in the sand to not see the real truth about Gaza.

Israellycool.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

I know it is your mission in life to cover-up the ramped "Child Abuse" in the Arab Palestinian community.  For every dead or crippled child that happens during the conflict, especially when they are intentionally put in harm's way, is the fault of each and every responsible parent.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

You might want to ask an important question when the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) parents knowingly allow their children to be placed in danger:

◈  Why does HoAP intentionally maximizes incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian property by launching discretionary terrorist operations from Arab Palestinian Densely Populated Areas against Israel?

◈  Why does HoAP intentionally maximizes the loss of life by NOT removing Civilians from the vicinity of their reckless conduct of terrorist operations out of Densely Populated Areas against Israel?  

◈  Why does HoAP uses the civilian population to mask incendiary assaults →  choice of means and methods of warfare with a view to increase the chances of increased incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.​
Daily the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) launch lethal rockets and lethal incendiary devices directed against Israel with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or destroy civil property.  All these acts are compounded by the fact that the HoAP has failed to pursue in good faith negotiations for a conclusion of hostile operations against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"BDS Is Anti-Semitism" Argument Dismantled - Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, AOC Are Right*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I know it is your mission in life to cover-up the ramped "Child Abuse" in the Arab Palestinian community.  For every dead or crippled child that happens during the conflict, especially when they are intentionally put in harm's way, is the fault of each and every responsible parent.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 272515
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You might want to ask an important question when the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) parents knowingly allow their children to be placed in danger:
> 
> ◈  Why does HoAP intentionally maximizes incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian property by launching discretionary terrorist operations from Arab Palestinian Densely Populated Areas against Israel?
> 
> ◈  Why does HoAP intentionally maximizes the loss of life by NOT removing Civilians from the vicinity of their reckless conduct of terrorist operations out of Densely Populated Areas against Israel?
> 
> ◈  Why does HoAP uses the civilian population to mask incendiary assaults →  choice of means and methods of warfare with a view to increase the chances of increased incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.​
> Daily the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) launch lethal rockets and lethal incendiary devices directed against Israel with the intention of - or calculated to - cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or destroy civil property.  All these acts are compounded by the fact that the HoAP has failed to pursue in good faith negotiations for a conclusion of hostile operations against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Israel.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.

Where else should they be?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Don't be foolish, you know the law.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.
> 
> Where else should they be?


*(ANSWER)*




And don't use the lame excuse that there is no place to move them.  There was a resort area in one of the recent picture spamming in the last week.  AND IF there is a reason they cannot move them, THEN they must follow:



But then, you know the primary Rule of Law objective is: 
*(THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE and ALTERNATIVE TO HoAP ACTIONS)*


 

*(COMMENT)*

With the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), they have forgotten where the put the Rule of Law.  They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.  

The Israelis made a unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and that did not satisfy them.  Even today, the HoAP, rather than pursue peaceful means, follow the mantra:  

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. 
Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​This is in direct opposition to the charter:

*Article 2(4)*
The Organization and its Members, 
in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, 
shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
--------------------------------------------------------
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force
against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,
or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​The HoAP can bring a halt to the casualties at any time by:

◈  suing for peace
◈  through a negotiated settlement
◈  or by simply refrain from hostile activity​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This makes claims that simply not true.



P F Tinmore said:


> *"BDS Is Anti-Semitism" Argument Dismantled - Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, AOC Are Right*
> **


*(COMMENT)*

The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement is a Palestinian-led campaign to incite violence and supporting a set of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.

It's a pig in make-up...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Don't be foolish, you know the law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.
> 
> Where else should they be?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> View attachment 272558
> And don't use the lame excuse that there is no place to move them.  There was a resort area in one of the recent picture spamming in the last week.  AND IF there is a reason they cannot move them, THEN they must follow:
> View attachment 272559
> But then, you know the primary Rule of Law objective is:
> *(THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE and ALTERNATIVE TO HoAP ACTIONS)*
> View attachment 272562
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), they have forgotten where the put the Rule of Law.  They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> The Israelis made a unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and that did not satisfy them.  Even today, the HoAP, rather than pursue peaceful means, follow the mantra:
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​This is in direct opposition to the charter:
> 
> *Article 2(4)*
> The Organization and its Members,
> in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1,
> shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force
> against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,
> or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​The HoAP can bring a halt to the casualties at any time by:
> 
> ◈  suing for peace
> ◈  through a negotiated settlement
> ◈  or by simply refrain from hostile activity​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.


It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.

So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.



P F Tinmore said:


> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.

Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.

By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.



The presence of the Jewish people in their own homeland (even the new returnees) is not CAUSE for violence against them.  Then or now.  There was no CAUSE for the Jewish people and Israel to have had a war for independence.  That war was a direct result of the denial of the self-determination of the Jewish people by the Arabs; a denial which was backed up with invasion by other state actors and violence.  

There is no CAUSE for violence from Gaza now.  The Arab Palestinians hold and govern that territory.  There is nothing for a government or a state to fight against or for.  (The issues of refugee status or non-status are individual rights, not state rights).


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




UK is occupied by Israel.  Give me a break.  Rather fast and loose with the terminology here.  

Also spreading libels like "They (the Jews) want to kill all Palestinians."

Hard not to predict her as anything but a future martyr.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




There is one and only one reason why children die in the March.  Because they are there, embedded with combatants.  The 'protective and preventative measures' are for the Gazans to keep their children away from combatants.  

What 'protective and preventative measures' can Israel possibly do in those situations?  Perform a ground invasion of the March and physically remove all the children?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *"BDS Is Anti-Semitism" Argument Dismantled - Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, AOC Are Right*
> 
> **




That video absolutely proves that BDS supporters, such as the speaker, are antisemitic.  "Israel wants to kill every Palestinian simply because who they are" is a blood libel, not a criticism of Israel's government policy.  

In fact, there was not a single valid criticism of Israeli policy anywhere in that video. Just blood libels, lies and false accusations.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Don't be foolish, you know the law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.
> 
> Where else should they be?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> View attachment 272558
> And don't use the lame excuse that there is no place to move them.  There was a resort area in one of the recent picture spamming in the last week.  AND IF there is a reason they cannot move them, THEN they must follow:
> View attachment 272559
> But then, you know the primary Rule of Law objective is:
> *(THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE and ALTERNATIVE TO HoAP ACTIONS)*
> View attachment 272562
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), they have forgotten where the put the Rule of Law.  They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> The Israelis made a unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and that did not satisfy them.  Even today, the HoAP, rather than pursue peaceful means, follow the mantra:
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​This is in direct opposition to the charter:
> 
> *Article 2(4)*
> The Organization and its Members,
> in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1,
> shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force
> against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,
> or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​The HoAP can bring a halt to the casualties at any time by:
> 
> ◈  suing for peace
> ◈  through a negotiated settlement
> ◈  or by simply refrain from hostile activity​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
Click to expand...


Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
during which they attacked Jews throughout the Caliphate, and expelled them from all of their holy cities.

Prove me wrong, You won't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Don't be foolish, you know the law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.
> 
> Where else should they be?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> View attachment 272558
> And don't use the lame excuse that there is no place to move them.  There was a resort area in one of the recent picture spamming in the last week.  AND IF there is a reason they cannot move them, THEN they must follow:
> View attachment 272559
> But then, you know the primary Rule of Law objective is:
> *(THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE and ALTERNATIVE TO HoAP ACTIONS)*
> View attachment 272562
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), they have forgotten where the put the Rule of Law.  They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> The Israelis made a unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and that did not satisfy them.  Even today, the HoAP, rather than pursue peaceful means, follow the mantra:
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​This is in direct opposition to the charter:
> 
> *Article 2(4)*
> The Organization and its Members,
> in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1,
> shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force
> against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,
> or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​The HoAP can bring a halt to the casualties at any time by:
> 
> ◈  suing for peace
> ◈  through a negotiated settlement
> ◈  or by simply refrain from hostile activity​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> during which they attacked Jews throughout the Caliphate, and expelled them from all of their holy cities.
> 
> Prove me wrong, You won't.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,


They had Britain do that for them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Don't be foolish, you know the law.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians children are killed in their own homes, in their own neighborhoods, and in their own villages.
> 
> Where else should they be?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> View attachment 272558
> And don't use the lame excuse that there is no place to move them.  There was a resort area in one of the recent picture spamming in the last week.  AND IF there is a reason they cannot move them, THEN they must follow:
> View attachment 272559
> But then, you know the primary Rule of Law objective is:
> *(THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE and ALTERNATIVE TO HoAP ACTIONS)*
> View attachment 272562
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> With the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), they have forgotten where the put the Rule of Law.  They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> The Israelis made a unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and that did not satisfy them.  Even today, the HoAP, rather than pursue peaceful means, follow the mantra:
> 
> There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​This is in direct opposition to the charter:
> 
> *Article 2(4)*
> The Organization and its Members,
> in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1,
> shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force
> against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,
> or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.​The HoAP can bring a halt to the casualties at any time by:
> 
> ◈  suing for peace
> ◈  through a negotiated settlement
> ◈  or by simply refrain from hostile activity​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> They _(the HoAP)_ start a conflict and then blame the victim (Israelis) for HoAP casualties that follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> during which they attacked Jews throughout the Caliphate, and expelled them from all of their holy cities.
> 
> Prove me wrong, You won't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They had Britain do that for them.
Click to expand...


And before Arabs helped Britain invade, what was their excuse for slaughtering 
and expelling the Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.

Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.
> 
> Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
Click to expand...


To claim self defense one has to show one's not the aggressor.
You still didn't give the explanation for all the Arab pogroms against Jews prior to Zionism.
Or how one can claim self defense while putting a suicide belt on one's own child...

Though I agree - terrorists is a term too noble than they really deserve,
*'invading savages'* more likely to fit the camel urine drinkers.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

OH, Come-on now_*!*_



develop Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> 
> 
> 
> They had Britain do that for them.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

While you can make the call that the British were involved, they were acting as the Government of Palestine.  That is the same self-governing institution that the Arab Palestinians refused to participate.  The Government of Palestine (the British) took the actions as they saw the situation demanded; commensurate with their authority and obligations.  

The Haganah (as an Israeli shadow Militia) did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.  The Haganah maintained a policy of operational restraint (_havlaga)_; except in rare like the Arab Palestinian Black Hand operators in the 1920s; having mounted attacks and terror campaigns against Israelis.  _(From the Britannica Encyclopedia on the Arab Palestinian Conflict • Author Dr Paul G. Pierpaoli Jr)_

But again, this makes no difference in the outcomes that we see today.  It is not like any of us has the power to go back and ask the parties to the region to change their approach.  And again, it is not likely that even that would not satisfy the Arab Palestinians territorial wants and political needs.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ rylah, 

You tread quite heavily → but convey a mighty truth.

v/r
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH, Come-on now_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> develop Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> 
> 
> 
> They had Britain do that for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While you can make the call that the British were involved, they were acting as the Government of Palestine.  That is the same self-governing institution that the Arab Palestinians refused to participate.
> 
> The Haganah (as an Israeli shadow Militia) did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.  The Haganah maintained a policy of operational restraint (_havlaga)_; except in rare like the
> Arab Palestinian Black Hand operators in the 1920s; having mounted attacks and terror campaigns against Israelis.  _(From the Britannica Encyclopedia on the Arab Palestinian Conflict • Author Dr Paul G. Pierpaoli Jr)_
> 
> But again, this makes no difference in the outcomes that we see today.  It is not like any of us has the power to go back and ask the parties to the region to change their approach.  And again, it is not likely that even that would not satisfy the Arab Palestinians territorial wants and political needs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Arab propaganda intentionally selects a very limited timeline,
purposefully leaving out all violence that caused Jews to organize politically through Zionism and raise arms in response.

They never dare to even remotely discuss the subject, destroys their whole "innocent victims" propaganda, therefore the Jihadi rats immediately switch to hiding mode.

Will anyone on Team Palestine ever give a straight answer?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian Media Watch blasts UN claims Israel targets Gaza children


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.
> 
> Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To claim self defense one has to show one's not the aggressor.
> You still didn't give the explanation for all the Arab pogroms against Jews prior to Zionism.
> Or how one can claim self defense while putting a suicide belt on one's own child...
> 
> Though I agree - terrorists is a term too noble than they really deserve,
> *'invading savages'* more likely to fit the camel urine drinkers.
Click to expand...

Which Arabs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OH, Come-on now_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> develop Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a single Zionist shot a single bullet before the waves of Arab pogroms,
> 
> 
> 
> They had Britain do that for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While you can make the call that the British were involved, they were acting as the Government of Palestine.  That is the same self-governing institution that the Arab Palestinians refused to participate.  The Government of Palestine (the British) took the actions as they saw the situation demanded; commensurate with their authority and obligations.
> 
> The Haganah (as an Israeli shadow Militia) did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.  The Haganah maintained a policy of operational restraint (_havlaga)_; except in rare like the Arab Palestinian Black Hand operators in the 1920s; having mounted attacks and terror campaigns against Israelis.  _(From the Britannica Encyclopedia on the Arab Palestinian Conflict • Author Dr Paul G. Pierpaoli Jr)_
> 
> But again, this makes no difference in the outcomes that we see today.  It is not like any of us has the power to go back and ask the parties to the region to change their approach.  And again, it is not likely that even that would not satisfy the Arab Palestinians territorial wants and political needs.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Haganah (as an Israeli shadow Militia) did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.


That was after the start of their settler colonial project.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh, this you get wrong all the time.

The term "Colonialism" is not a "legal" term.  "Colonialism" is a political term.


			
				EXCERPT • Page 89 • Dictionary of Modern Politicals • David Robertson  3d Ed said:
			
		

> For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> 
> ◈  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright exploitation.
> 
> ◈  The far-flung lands that constitute an empire may be integrated equally in economic and political terms with the original homeland, the motive for imperial expansion being the spreading of a way of life or of a political design, or merely the distancing of external borders, and thus military danger, from the heartland.
> 
> SOURCE:
> *A Dictionary of Modern Politics: David Professor Robertson ...*
> Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more*Dictionary*-*Modern*-*Politics*-Professor-Robertson/dp/185743093X
> A *Dictionary* of *Modern Politics* [David Professor Robertson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A comprehensive guide to the complex ideology/terminology which surrounds the world of *politics*. * Well over 500 extensive definitions * Defines *political* theories.​





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah _(as an Israeli shadow Militia) _did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.
> 
> 
> 
> That was after the start of their settler colonial project.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*
As you know very well, immigration authorized by the Allied Powers is NOT colonialism.  Simple_*!*_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, this you get wrong all the time.
> 
> The term "Colonialism" is not a "legal" term.  "Colonialism" is a political term.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Page 89 • Dictionary of Modern Politicals • David Robertson  3d Ed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> 
> ◈  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright exploitation.
> 
> ◈  The far-flung lands that constitute an empire may be integrated equally in economic and political terms with the original homeland, the motive for imperial expansion being the spreading of a way of life or of a political design, or merely the distancing of external borders, and thus military danger, from the heartland.
> 
> SOURCE:
> *A Dictionary of Modern Politics: David Professor Robertson ...*
> Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more*Dictionary*-*Modern*-*Politics*-Professor-Robertson/dp/185743093X
> A *Dictionary* of *Modern Politics* [David Professor Robertson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A comprehensive guide to the complex ideology/terminology which surrounds the world of *politics*. * Well over 500 extensive definitions * Defines *political* theories.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah _(as an Israeli shadow Militia) _did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was after the start of their settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> As you know very well, immigration authorized by the Allied Powers is NOT colonialism.  Simple_*!*_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.

How is that legal?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> How is that legal?


*(ANSWER)*

Britain could not possibly have imposed immigration on Palestine.   The Allied Powers agreed to entrust to a Mandatory of their choosing to the administration of the Territory of Palestine; which formerly belonged to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.

*IF* the immigration was imposed at a point of a gun, *THEN* the British were holding the gun to their own head.  They were the authority granted by the Allied Powers forging the *future of the territory being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty.  The Arab Palestinians were the habitual residents of the territory under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration ( OETA) in April 1920 when the Allied Powers made their decisions.  The Treaty authority stated:

ARTICLE I6 Treaty of Lausanne

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​*(COMMENT)*

This is the aspect the Arab Palestinians never understood.  It was NOT sovereign Arab Palestinian territory when immigration by the Jewish people began for the establishment and reconstituting in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

That is not all (wait for it)_*!*_

Immigration was a strategy of the Allied Powers _*→*_ passed to the Government of Palestine (the British) → and to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

*IF* anyone was holding a gun, *THEN* it was the Arab Palestinians who shot themselves in the foot _(several times)_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, this you get wrong all the time.
> 
> The term "Colonialism" is not a "legal" term.  "Colonialism" is a political term.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Page 89 • Dictionary of Modern Politicals • David Robertson  3d Ed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> 
> ◈  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright exploitation.
> 
> ◈  The far-flung lands that constitute an empire may be integrated equally in economic and political terms with the original homeland, the motive for imperial expansion being the spreading of a way of life or of a political design, or merely the distancing of external borders, and thus military danger, from the heartland.
> 
> SOURCE:
> *A Dictionary of Modern Politics: David Professor Robertson ...*
> Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more*Dictionary*-*Modern*-*Politics*-Professor-Robertson/dp/185743093X
> A *Dictionary* of *Modern Politics* [David Professor Robertson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A comprehensive guide to the complex ideology/terminology which surrounds the world of *politics*. * Well over 500 extensive definitions * Defines *political* theories.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah _(as an Israeli shadow Militia) _did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was after the start of their settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> As you know very well, immigration authorized by the Allied Powers is NOT colonialism.  Simple_*!*_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> How is that legal?
Click to expand...



You can’t “impose” immigration. That would be forced transfer of population. All a government can do is permit or restrict immigration. (Perfectly legal, btw.)

The British Mandate was charged with the obligation to facilitate Jewish return and self-determination in their homeland, with the full support of the international community of the time. 

Arabs have absolutely no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in the Jewish homeland. 

They may have a right to their own self-determination, but they have no right to prevent another’s.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> How is that legal?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Britain could not possibly have imposed immigration on Palestine.   The Allied Powers agreed to entrust to a Mandatory of their choosing to the administration of the Territory of Palestine; which formerly belonged to the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> *IF* the immigration was imposed at a point of a gun, *THEN* the British were holding the gun to their own head.  They were the authority granted by the Allied Powers forging the *future of the territory being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned*.  The Arab Palestinians were not a party to the Treaty.  The Arab Palestinians were the habitual residents of the territory under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration ( OETA) in April 1920 when the Allied Powers made their decisions.  The Treaty authority stated:
> 
> ARTICLE I6 Treaty of Lausanne
> 
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is the aspect the Arab Palestinians never understood.  It was NOT sovereign Arab Palestinian territory when immigration by the Jewish people began for the establishment and reconstituting in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
> 
> That is not all (wait for it)_*!*_
> 
> Immigration was a strategy of the Allied Powers _*→*_ passed to the Government of Palestine (the British) → and to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
> 
> *IF* anyone was holding a gun, *THEN* it was the Arab Palestinians who shot themselves in the foot _(several times)_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Immigration was a strategy of the Allied Powers _*→*_ passed to the Government of Palestine (the British) → and to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.


That's what I said.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, this you get wrong all the time.
> 
> The term "Colonialism" is not a "legal" term.  "Colonialism" is a political term.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Page 89 • Dictionary of Modern Politicals • David Robertson  3d Ed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> 
> ◈  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright exploitation.
> 
> ◈  The far-flung lands that constitute an empire may be integrated equally in economic and political terms with the original homeland, the motive for imperial expansion being the spreading of a way of life or of a political design, or merely the distancing of external borders, and thus military danger, from the heartland.
> 
> SOURCE:
> *A Dictionary of Modern Politics: David Professor Robertson ...*
> Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more*Dictionary*-*Modern*-*Politics*-Professor-Robertson/dp/185743093X
> A *Dictionary* of *Modern Politics* [David Professor Robertson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A comprehensive guide to the complex ideology/terminology which surrounds the world of *politics*. * Well over 500 extensive definitions * Defines *political* theories.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah _(as an Israeli shadow Militia) _did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was after the start of their settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> As you know very well, immigration authorized by the Allied Powers is NOT colonialism.  Simple_*!*_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> How is that legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can’t “impose” immigration. That would be forced transfer of population. All a government can do is permit or restrict immigration. (Perfectly legal, btw.)
> 
> The British Mandate was charged with the obligation to facilitate Jewish return and self-determination in their homeland, with the full support of the international community of the time.
> 
> Arabs have absolutely no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in the Jewish homeland.
> 
> They may have a right to their own self-determination, but they have no right to prevent another’s.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Arabs have absolutely no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in the Jewish homeland.


The problem is that the so called Jewish homeland is inside Palestine's international borders.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

We've covered this ground many times.  Inside the "Palestine's international borders" sounds like one thing but actually means something else entirely.

Article 16 handed the rights and title to the Allied Powers.  The Allied Powers assumed the authority to recognize the boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.

The Arab Palestinians make a claim to the territory, that they never had in the first place.  The boundaries were set by the Allied Powers, they can be erased by the Allied Powers. 



P F Tinmore said:


> The problem is that the so called Jewish homeland is inside Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Sometimes, territories for various reasons are carved-up.

◈  Abyssinia was a country once composed of Eritrea and Ethiopia.

◈  Austro-Hungarian Empire (one of four Empires that fell in WWI) once consisted of Austria and Hungary,  parts of the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy, Romania, and the Balkans.

◈  The break-up of the Soviet Union into Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldovia, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Oh, this you get wrong all the time.
> 
> The term "Colonialism" is not a "legal" term.  "Colonialism" is a political term.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT • Page 89 • Dictionary of Modern Politicals • David Robertson  3d Ed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For true colonialism to exist two conditions are necessary.
> 
> ◈  The land held as a colony must have no real political independence from the ‘mother country’, but also the relationship must be one of forthright exploitation.
> 
> ◈  The far-flung lands that constitute an empire may be integrated equally in economic and political terms with the original homeland, the motive for imperial expansion being the spreading of a way of life or of a political design, or merely the distancing of external borders, and thus military danger, from the heartland.
> 
> SOURCE:
> *A Dictionary of Modern Politics: David Professor Robertson ...*
> Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more*Dictionary*-*Modern*-*Politics*-Professor-Robertson/dp/185743093X
> A *Dictionary* of *Modern Politics* [David Professor Robertson] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. A comprehensive guide to the complex ideology/terminology which surrounds the world of *politics*. * Well over 500 extensive definitions * Defines *political* theories.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Haganah _(as an Israeli shadow Militia) _did not developed a defensive posture until the Arab riots in 1920 and 1921.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was after the start of their settler colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> As you know very well, immigration authorized by the Allied Powers is NOT colonialism.  Simple_*!*_
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain imposed their immigration policy on Palestine at the point of a gun.
> 
> How is that legal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can’t “impose” immigration. That would be forced transfer of population. All a government can do is permit or restrict immigration. (Perfectly legal, btw.)
> 
> The British Mandate was charged with the obligation to facilitate Jewish return and self-determination in their homeland, with the full support of the international community of the time.
> 
> Arabs have absolutely no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in the Jewish homeland.
> 
> They may have a right to their own self-determination, but they have no right to prevent another’s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs have absolutely no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in the Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem is that the so called Jewish homeland is inside Palestine's international borders.
Click to expand...


This does not create a legal impediment to self-determination or sovereignty. International borders change all the time. All that is required is a treaty. Countries are partitioned all the time. All that is required is a treaty. 

Again, Arabs have no right in law, then or now, to prevent Jewish self-determination.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Nazi symbol flies over Hamas riot in Gaza Strip

Next we will hear about those " Poor Palestinians" that Israel used " excessive force" on


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> We've covered this ground many times.  Inside the "Palestine's international borders" sounds like one thing but actually means something else entirely.
> 
> Article 16 handed the rights and title to the Allied Powers.  The Allied Powers assumed the authority to recognize the boundaries as may be fixed by the Allied Powers.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians make a claim to the territory, that they never had in the first place.  The boundaries were set by the Allied Powers, they can be erased by the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that the so called Jewish homeland is inside Palestine's international borders.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sometimes, territories for various reasons are carved-up.
> 
> ◈  Abyssinia was a country once composed of Eritrea and Ethiopia.
> 
> ◈  Austro-Hungarian Empire (one of four Empires that fell in WWI) once consisted of Austria and Hungary,  parts of the Czech Republic, Poland, Italy, Romania, and the Balkans.
> 
> ◈  The break-up of the Soviet Union into Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldovia, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK. How many of those suffered settler colonialism?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.
> 
> Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To claim self defense one has to show one's not the aggressor.
> You still didn't give the explanation for all the Arab pogroms against Jews prior to Zionism.
> Or how one can claim self defense while putting a suicide belt on one's own child...
> 
> Though I agree - terrorists is a term too noble than they really deserve,
> *'invading savages'* more likely to fit the camel urine drinkers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...







These Arabs, and the rest of them who followed suite, by simultaneously attacking the oldest Jewish communities throughout the Caliphate. 

Arabs have no one to blame but themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Zionists who attacked and expelled the Palestinians in 1948 and continue that practice today.
> 
> So don't give me that crap that it is the Palestinians who are the aggressors.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.
> 
> Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To claim self defense one has to show one's not the aggressor.
> You still didn't give the explanation for all the Arab pogroms against Jews prior to Zionism.
> Or how one can claim self defense while putting a suicide belt on one's own child...
> 
> Though I agree - terrorists is a term too noble than they really deserve,
> *'invading savages'* more likely to fit the camel urine drinkers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Arabs, and the rest of them who followed suite, by simultaneously attacking the oldest Jewish communities throughout the Caliphate.
> 
> Arabs have no one to blame but themselves.
Click to expand...

A long time ago.

No context.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> As far as the 1948 War goes, as it relates to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the war was settled by two peace treaties.   It was over and done.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot go back that far.  And even if you did, the claimant would be 70 years old or better to be a displaced person.
> 
> Additionally, refugee status is lost if the applicant has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes.  That drops out almost every single one has violated either the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), or they have violated one or more of the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts.
> 
> By convention, there is no obligation for Israel to allow any criminal to enter their sovereign territory.  And every single one of the fake peaceful demonstrators has disqualified themselves.  But I did not see any demonstrators of 70 years of age or older.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Still playing the terrorist card on self defense, I see.
> 
> Part of Israel's terrorist propaganda campaign.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To claim self defense one has to show one's not the aggressor.
> You still didn't give the explanation for all the Arab pogroms against Jews prior to Zionism.
> Or how one can claim self defense while putting a suicide belt on one's own child...
> 
> Though I agree - terrorists is a term too noble than they really deserve,
> *'invading savages'* more likely to fit the camel urine drinkers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These Arabs, and the rest of them who followed suite, by simultaneously attacking the oldest Jewish communities throughout the Caliphate.
> 
> Arabs have no one to blame but themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A long time ago.
> 
> No context.
Click to expand...


Merely 50 years prior to the 1st Zionist immigration.
Context - typical Arab treatment of weakest minorities at the bottom of the social ladder.

This aggression against Jewish communities along with subsequent waves of Arab pogroms throughout the Caliphate, was what caused Jews to organize politically around the world and raise arms for a proper response.

So what was the Arab excuse for attacking them?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Kushner Plan and the Bahrain Economic Workshop: An Official Palestinian Perspective*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Empire Files: Inside Palestine’s Refugee Camps*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Featps://unitedwithisrael.org/shin-bet-thwarts-jerusalem-attack-confiscates-6-6-lb-bomb/?utm_source=Maring PR Blow, Hamas Asks Gaza Border Rioters Not to Fly Swastika Flag


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Scenes of Injured Gazan Arabs from IDF Snipers are Staged - Welcome to Pallywood

  This says it all


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Traditions of Liberation Education - Professor Karma Nabulsi (Oxford University)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel razes Araqib village in Negev for 149th time running


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hanna: Christians United for Israel “suspicious, non-Christian group”






OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)

Father Atallah Hanna has warned against the so-called “Christians United for Israel” in America, calling it an organization that “plays a suspicious political role in opposing justice and supporting the Israeli occupation, its policies and practices against the Palestinian people.”

Hanna, Archbishop of the Palestinian Orthodox Church in Occupied Jerusalem, affirmed that this American organization receives support from the current US administration and some groups that falsely claim to belong to Christianity.

  Read more at  
Hanna: Christians United for Israel “suspicious, non-Christian group”
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman holds a tray of miniature cacti at a nursery in Jabalia in the northern Gaza Strip. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza wallrunners


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian artist works on a sculpture during a workshop at the Shababek for Contemporary Art center in Gaza City. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

Will Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez denounce this and call upon the “Palestinians” to renounce their genocidal Jew-hatred? Don’t hold your breath.

“Nazi Swastika Flag Raised by Palestinian Rioters During Unrest on Israel-Gaza Border,” Algemeiner, August 2, 2019 (thanks to the Geller Report):

Around 6,000 Palestinians rioted on the Israel-Gaza Strip border on Friday, throwing rocks, firebombs and explosive devices at IDF troops.

The soldiers responded with riot-dispersal means. No Israeli casualties were reported.

According to the IDF, Palestinian rioters raised a Nazi swastika on the border fence….

“Palestinian” rioters at Gaza/Israel border throw rocks and firebombs at IDF troops, raise Nazi flag


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Slaughtered by Israel in cold blood. Rest in peace Mohammed Obaid, from occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine that should be.
Art by Imad Abu Shtayyah


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad from Nabi Saleh talks with Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! about her work as a young journalist showing the realities of life under occupation for a child.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A member of the girls soccer team in Gaza makes a run with the ball.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Diaspora Orchestra*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jazar Crew | Boiler Room Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Lamma Band - A Palestinian band rehearsal in Beit Sahour (near Bethlehem)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrate their graduation at the University of Palestine in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man weaves a wool carpet in a Gaza City workshop. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Dabkeh during Traditional Dress Day Celebration in Gaza City yesterday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza eyewitness to horror, Dr Mustafa Barghouti*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Can the US still broker peace in Middle East?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girls take part in Traditional Dress Day celebration in Gaza City yesterday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Modern Art Exhibition in Gaza City.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrate Traditional Dress Day this week. Nothing beats the beauty of hand stitched thobes!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine's beautiful nature


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's beautiful nature



It is nice. So what are they complaining about?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Muslims Riot as Jews Peacefully Mourn the Destruction of the Temple

   The animals are getting restless


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Tinmore ignores my posts? What a rude old
Man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine's beautiful nature
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is nice. So what are they complaining about?
Click to expand...



There.

Your welcome.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Thinking of Sur Baher families who will have to start life all over again because everything they once had is just plain gone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians stand on the rubble of a building demolished by Israeli forces in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher. Photo by Abedalrahman Hassan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ethnic cleansing in broad daylight. Sur Baher, Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Sur Baher demolition campaign is the largest ever to take place in Jerusalem in favor of settlement expansion. So far 100 apartments have been erased. More are expected to follow. When will the Israeli terrorism come to an end?


----------



## P F Tinmore

On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*2019 HSML - "Popular Resistance: Reclaiming the Narrative and Recreating the Self"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Nadia Ben-Youssef: "A New Day? Organizing to Change US Policy on Israel and Palestine"*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The Honorable Ilhan Omar (D-MN 5th District) is intitled to her opinion, whatever it might be.  I do not think it is in the American Spirit to drownd-out her commentary.  She represents the District from MN who obviously support her views.  

There is no "absolute" right to self-determination.  Like a vast majority of countries, world-wide, independence is labor-intensive.  Just saying you are independent and exercising the right to self-determination does not mean that it magically happens.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

There have been very few _(if any)_ nations in the last half of the 20th Century _(or the first two decades of the 21st Century)_ that can be said to "deserve" _[do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment)]_  independence in cases where it was achieved through conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state.  Nor is it desirable that the independence is gained in such a way that the end of hostilities is not reasonably assured. 



			
				Terrorism and Freedom Fighters • Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy said:
			
		

> Many movements for national liberation from colonial rule resorted to it, either as the main method of struggle or as a tactic complementing guerrilla warfare. So did some separatist movements. Some organizations driven by extreme ideologies, in particular on the left, took to terrorism as _the_ way of trying to destroy what they considered an unjust, oppressive economic, social and political system. This type of terrorism is, by and large, indiscriminate in its choice of target: it attacks men and women of whatever political (or apolitical) views, social class, and walk of life; young and old, adults and children. It shoots at people or blows them up by planting bombs, in office buildings, markets, cafes, cinemas, places of religious worship, on buses or planes, or in other vulnerable public places. It also takes people hostage, by hijacking planes and in other ways.



In the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), this is the acquisition of territory by the use of asymmetric force; using tactics inconsistent with the Fourth Geneva Convention.  The HoAP can shout "rights" and "deserving" all they want.  But at the end of the day, there is no question at all that the HoAP and the Arab-Palestinian Governments _(more than one)_ and service political groups intended →

◈  to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
◈  to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
◈  to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;​
And while it may be under the encouragement and direct incitement a failing government to use the HoAP _(civilians that would otherwise hold the status of protected persons)_ in criminal behaviors, the vast majority of the remainder of the general population in the disputed territories provide material support to the various designated Arab Palestinian organizations and groups.

If the people of the MN 5th Congressional District are politically supporting the HoAP in their use of these tactics, then so be it.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The Honorable Ilhan Omar (D-MN 5th District) is intitled to her opinion, whatever it might be.  I do not think it is in the American Spirit to drownd-out her commentary.  She represents the District from MN who obviously support her views.
> 
> There is no "absolute" right to self-determination.  Like a vast majority of countries, world-wide, independence is labor-intensive.  Just saying you are independent and exercising the right to self-determination does not mean that it magically happens.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 273866
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There have been very few _(if any)_ nations in the last half of the 20th Century _(or the first two decades of the 21st Century)_ that can be said to "deserve" _[do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment)]_  independence in cases where it was achieved through conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state.  Nor is it desirable that the independence is gained in such a way that the end of hostilities is not reasonably assured.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism and Freedom Fighters • Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many movements for national liberation from colonial rule resorted to it, either as the main method of struggle or as a tactic complementing guerrilla warfare. So did some separatist movements. Some organizations driven by extreme ideologies, in particular on the left, took to terrorism as _the_ way of trying to destroy what they considered an unjust, oppressive economic, social and political system. This type of terrorism is, by and large, indiscriminate in its choice of target: it attacks men and women of whatever political (or apolitical) views, social class, and walk of life; young and old, adults and children. It shoots at people or blows them up by planting bombs, in office buildings, markets, cafes, cinemas, places of religious worship, on buses or planes, or in other vulnerable public places. It also takes people hostage, by hijacking planes and in other ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the case of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), this is the acquisition of territory by the use of asymmetric force; using tactics inconsistent with the Fourth Geneva Convention.  The HoAP can shout "rights" and "deserving" all they want.  But at the end of the day, there is no question at all that the HoAP and the Arab-Palestinian Governments _(more than one)_ and service political groups intended →
> 
> ◈  to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
> ◈  to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
> ◈  to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;​
> And while it may be under the encouragement and direct incitement a failing government to use the HoAP _(civilians that would otherwise hold the status of protected persons)_ in criminal behaviors, the vast majority of the remainder of the general population in the disputed territories provide material support to the various designated Arab Palestinian organizations and groups.
> 
> If the people of the MN 5th Congressional District are politically supporting the HoAP in their use of these tactics, then so be it.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




			
				Terrorism and Freedom Fighters • Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy said:
			
		

> Many movements for national liberation from colonial rule resorted to it, either as the main method of struggle or as a tactic complementing guerrilla warfare.



Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Heartbreaking. Palestinian mother tries to calm down her daughter this morning after they were forced out of their home which was later demolished by the Israeli forces in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A picture from the house demolition campaign that targeted Wadi al-Hummus neighborhood in Jerusalem this morning. Over 500 Palestinians have been left homeless.






The homeowners received building permits from the Palestinian city of Bethlehem, which has municipal jurisdiction over that section of Wadi Hummus.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel, the world leader in rubble.


----------



## P F Tinmore

On #NelsonMandelaDay we remember an anti-apartheid hero who taught us to never give up fighting for what is right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians protest against an Israeli military order to confiscate lands near the city of Nablus, northern West Bank, for settlement expansion.






Armed robbery in process.


----------



## Ropey

Here you go tinhead.



Oh, and it comes.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






Get what you came for.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ropey said:


> Here you go tinhead.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and it comes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get what you came for.


Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians.






Same as always.


----------



## Ropey

Oh, we know what you want.






Come and get it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian family fleeing after an Israeli airstrike on a house in Gaza city, July 9, 2014.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Remembering the 2014 war. Five years ago, Israel launched an assault on the Gaza Strip that targeted homes, schools, hospitals and shelters, killing over 2,200 Palestinians.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Lies.  About 100 apartments were demolished, most under construction and empty.  

This is the first time Israel has demolished homes in Area A.  It is being done specifically for security reasons. 

Now, you are free to suggest that Israel shouldn't be encroaching on Palestinian sovereignty in Area A, even for security reasons. (Though you would then have to admit that Palestine has sovereignty -- not occupied).  That's not even a bad argument.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The is slanted.  This is not telling the whole concept.

I would like to, once again, make the self verifiable observations that:



P F Tinmore said:


> Remembering the 2014 war. Five years ago, Israel launched an assault on the Gaza Strip that targeted homes, schools, hospitals, and shelters, killing over 2,200 Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

◈  The disparity between the effective kill ratio is not for the lack of trying on the Hostile Arab Palestinian's (HoAP's) part.  They would kill just as many Israelis, if not more, but for the lack of expertise, and the effectiveness of Israeli resolve.

◈  The HoAP intentionally increase the potential increase in the number of civilian casualties by violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary and IHL.  The intentionally put civilians in harm's way.

◈  There is no evidence, what so ever, that the Israelis target homes, schools, hospitals, and shelters, being used in nefarious ways by the HoAP. 

◈  The HoAPcan reduce the civilian casualty rate to zero-IF they stop launching attacks against Israel.  BUT they do not want to stop the pursuit in "Acts of War." 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The is slanted.  This is not telling the whole concept.
> 
> I would like to, once again, make the self verifiable observations that:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering the 2014 war. Five years ago, Israel launched an assault on the Gaza Strip that targeted homes, schools, hospitals, and shelters, killing over 2,200 Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  The disparity between the effective kill ratio is not for the lack of trying on the Hostile Arab Palestinian's (HoAP's) part.  They would kill just as many Israelis, if not more, but for the lack of expertise, and the effectiveness of Israeli resolve.
> 
> ◈  The HoAP intentionally increase the potential increase in the number of civilian casualties by violating Rules 23 and 24 of Customary and IHL.  The intentionally put civilians in harm's way.
> 
> ◈  There is no evidence, what so ever, that the Israelis target homes, schools, hospitals, and shelters, being used in nefarious ways by the HoAP.
> 
> ◈  The HoAPcan reduce the civilian casualty rate to zero-IF they stop launching attacks against Israel.  BUT they do not want to stop the pursuit in "Acts of War."
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are defending themselves and you always call them hostile.

How colonial of you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lies.  About 100 apartments were demolished, most under construction and empty.
> 
> This is the first time Israel has demolished homes in Area A.  It is being done specifically for security reasons.
> 
> Now, you are free to suggest that Israel shouldn't be encroaching on Palestinian sovereignty in Area A, even for security reasons. (Though you would then have to admit that Palestine has sovereignty -- not occupied).  That's not even a bad argument.
Click to expand...

Israel shouldn't be demolishing anything.

If it isn't theirs, they should keep their fucking hands off it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers burn Palestinian-owned olive trees in Burin village, Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A youth soccer team holds its weekly practice on a playground in central Gaza City. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"If you live, live free or die like the trees, standing up." - Mahmoud Darwish, Palestinian poet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH WOW!  This is ridiculous...



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians are defending themselves and you always call them hostile.
> 
> How colonial of you.


*(COMMENT)*

How are the Arab Palestinians defending themselves when they are conducting hostile operations against the Israelis → either:
✧  On the border? 
✧  Into the interrior of Israel?
✧  Or against Israelis in Area C?​
How is it that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) can put Israeli citizens at risk when the Israelis are put in danger on territory that is not now, and nor has never been, under the exclusive control of the Arab Palestinians?  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

WOW, now does this picture look suspicious?



P F Tinmore said:


> "If you live, live free or die like the trees, standing up." - Mahmoud Darwish, Palestinian poet.


*(QUESTION)*

Does anyone recognize this uniform?

v/r
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this is a mantra used loud and often by the Arab Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*


*(COMMENT)*

✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is NOT law.

✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."

✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is an act of political addition.  A + B = C.

※→  _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "__live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=* __"should be permitted to do so (C)_." 

In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true.  But in 1948, element "B"  was not true.



			
				Arab Higher Committee said:
			
		

> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> *SOURCE:* *Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee* • A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948





			
				FATAH said:
			
		

> "Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle* against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student* (sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a mantra used loud and often by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is NOT law.
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is an act of political addition.  A + B = C.
> 
> ※→  _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=*  "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true.  But in 1948, element "B"  was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Higher Committee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> *SOURCE:* *Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee* • A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FATAH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle* against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student* (sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a mantra used loud and often by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is NOT law.
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is an act of political addition.  A + B = C.
> 
> ※→  _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=*  "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true.  But in 1948, element "B"  was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Higher Committee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> *SOURCE:* *Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee* • A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FATAH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle* against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student* (sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ✧ UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."


They didn't need to. Palestine has international borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a mantra used loud and often by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is NOT law.
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is an act of political addition.  A + B = C.
> 
> ※→  _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=*  "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true.  But in 1948, element "B"  was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Higher Committee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> *SOURCE:* *Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee* • A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FATAH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle* against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student* (sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ※→ _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=* "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true. But in 1948, element "B" was not true.


How many Palestinians who returned to their homes did not live at peace with their neighbors?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again untrue.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ✧ UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't need to. Palestine has international borders.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

While the Government of Palestine established the boundaries to which the Order in Council and Mandate applied, those boundaries were not permanent.  Nor where those lines a commitment to the Arab Palestinians. 

And it is further the case that the Arab Palestinians were not the successors to the territory.  And the Arab Palestinians have not had a functioning government over the territory in more than seven centuries _(between the Warrior-Slaves and the Ottomans)_ _(if not longer)_. 

The Arab Palestinians may have had established individual civil property rights, but 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you are attempting to change the issue.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→ _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=* "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true. But in 1948, element "B" was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Palestinians who returned to their homes did not live at peace with their neighbors?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It is a matter of "intent."  The Arab Palestinians stated their intentions long before the invasion by the Arab League.  And to this day, the Arab Palestinians have never changed that policy.  Thus, they are tagged:  *Hostile* Arab Palestinians.  They are hostile to the Israelis because they self-identify themselves as such.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you are attempting to change the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→ _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=* "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true. But in 1948, element "B" was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Palestinians who returned to their homes did not live at peace with their neighbors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a matter of "intent."  The Arab Palestinians stated their intentions long before the invasion by the Arab League.  And to this day, the Arab Palestinians have never changed that policy.  Thus, they are tagged:  *Hostile* Arab Palestinians.  They are hostile to the Israelis because they self-identify themselves as such.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It is a matter of "intent." The Arab Palestinians stated their intentions long before the invasion by the Arab League.


Indeed, they stated that they would defend themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Youth learn the fundamentals of robot manufacturing in the Child Centre – Gaza Qattan Foundation. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo – Book Review*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> (_Preventing Palestine –  A Political History From Camp David to Oslo.  Seth Anziska.  Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ, 2018.)_
> 
> In all my recent readings of history and current events, Preventing Palestine stands out as being one of the best written – if not the best – and one of the most essential for understanding the overall historical process of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories of Palestine.
> 
> Given the nature of the book, it also hints at the gradual process through which all of Mandatory Palestine west of the Jordan River gave way to the acceptance of only a partial space – the West Bank and Gaza – within the overall colonial-settler area of Israel, as a region for a Palestinian state.
> 
> Preventing Palestine: A Political History From Camp David to Oslo - Book Review - Palestine Chronicle



* it also hints at the gradual process through which all of Mandatory Palestine west of the Jordan River gave way to the acceptance of only a partial space *

Yup, the Arabs really screwed themselves....and continue screwing themselves.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Give me your bread (and your women and your land) or I kill you!!

Allahu Akbar!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rana Ramlawi, 20, practices sand sculpture by carving drawings of national symbols on the beach sand near her house in Gaza. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*McMillan Stewart Amahl Bishara Fall 2018*

**


----------



## Ropey




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*
> 
> **


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, this is a mantra used loud and often by the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinian right of return isn’t antisemitism. It’s UN Resolution 194.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is NOT law.
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* does NOT mention (even once) anything about "boundaries" - or - "borders."
> 
> ✧  UN *A/RES/194 (III)* is an act of political addition.  A + B = C.
> 
> ※→  _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=*  "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true.  But in 1948, element "B"  was not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Higher Committee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> *SOURCE:* *Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee* • A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FATAH said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Martyr Dalal Mughrabi is a *symbol of legitimate human struggle* against injustice, oppression, and the *occupation* that has committed crimes against the Palestinian people throughout its *71 years*. *The use of Dalal's name in the summer camps of [Fatah's] Shabiba Student* (sic., High School) *Movement is nothing but commemoration of a situation of struggle*, *which has been waged by our Palestinian people* that was uprooted from its land and homeland as a result of the crimes, oppression, and massacres that the Zionist gangs committed against it. Therefore, *Dalal Mughrabi's [actions] are a natural human expression that all human laws guarantee for the oppressed peoples that are struggling to be redeemed from injustice and occupation*."
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Official Fatah Facebook page, July 16, 2019
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ※→ _"refugees wishing to return to their homes" (A) *+* "live at peace with their neighbours" (B) *=* "should be permitted to do so (C)_."
> 
> In order to be valid and sound, both "A" and "B" must be true. But in 1948, element "B" was not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many Palestinians who returned to their homes did not live at peace with their neighbors?
Click to expand...





  Regarding your question, the answer no Palestinians because they haven't been given the opportunity,    






Support for a two state solution varies according to the way the question is phrased. Some Israeli journalists suggest that the Palestinians are unprepared to accept a Jewish State on any terms.[37][38] According to one poll, "fewer than 2 in 10 Arabs, both Palestinian and all others, believe in Israel's right to exist as a nation with a Jewish majority


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, come now!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

How do you define external interference?

How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces? 

When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?

MOST RESPECTFULLY,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> How do you define external interference?


A foreign military in your country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?


The Arab League was a defensive move. They did not attack Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, there is a problem here.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A foreign military in your country.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

First:  It was not a "your country."  There was no country under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinians.  Nor did the Arab Palestinians have a functioning government with the control of the territory (any territory) to the exclusion of all others.

Second:  The Israelis had the "Right of Self-Determination" which they exercied and defended.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?


Israeli talking point question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, there is a problem here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A foreign military in your country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> First:  It was not a "your country."  There was no country under the sovereignty of the Arab Palestinians.  Nor did the Arab Palestinians have a functioning government with the control of the territory (any territory) to the exclusion of all others.
> 
> Second:  The Israelis had the "Right of Self-Determination" which they exercied and defended.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Back into bullshit Israeli talking points again, I see.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.  It is a good delusion. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab League was a defensive move. They did not attack Palestine.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab League Principles involved may have claimed that, but their actions say something else entirely.

In fact, Jordan not only took control after the Arab Palestinians rejected the 1948 two-state solution but annexed it as well. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, keep telling yourself that.  It is a good delusion.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, come now!
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Indeed, they have always been opposed to illegal external interference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> How do you define external interference?
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> When did Israeli occupy and sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> MOST RESPECTFULLY,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that differ from the interference by the Arab League with Ground Forces?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab League was a defensive move. They did not attack Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab League Principles involved may have claimed that, but their actions say something else entirely.
> 
> In fact, Jordan not only took control after the Arab Palestinians rejected the 1948 two-state solution but annexed it as well.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The Zionists promised Jordan the West Bank and $3M a year for five years if they would not attack Israel. But that had nothing to do with the Zionist attack on Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A foreign military in your country.



Israel's government (and military) was LOCAL, not foreign.  The militaries of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon were foreign.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> In fact, Jordan not only took control after the Arab Palestinians rejected the 1948 two-state solution but annexed it as well.



Clearly demonstrating that "foreign military" or "external interference" was not really the issue.


----------



## P F Tinmore

On episode 8, Nora Barrows-Friedman speaks to attorney Radhika Sainath of Palestine Legal about a significant win in the fight for Palestine rights advocacy on US campuses.

Later in the broadcast, Nora discusses _Siegebreakers_ – a new novel set in Gaza – with its author, Justin Podur.

On 5 August Fordham University students won a landmark legal victory against the university’s unilateral ban of a Students for Justice in Palestine chapter.

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2019-08/ep_8_-_fordham_and_siegebreakers.mp3


----------



## P F Tinmore

Fully armed US backed Israeli occupation forces break into a Palestinian school, arrest 10-year-old.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian handicrafter makes clay pots inside a factory which has been passed down through the generations of his family for centuries. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

'Israel' is not normal at all.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine plants. Israel uproots, destroys, and kills.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel, the world leader in rubble.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Good.  People who participate in firebombing at sacred sites should be arrested.  Technique looks pretty clean to me.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another bomber stopped


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rest in peace, Hasan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel is there to terrorize and oppress Palestinians to achieve its colonial interests.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Rest in peace, Hasan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Dajani - "Beats Like Bones on a Drum"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

That's the daily life of Palestinian women under Israeli occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel making the desert bloom.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud Professional Drifter : Female driver from Palestine pilots 850hp BMW E46*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> That's the daily life of Palestinian women under Israeli occupation.



Gotta screen for Pallie bombers.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



You realize that Mary and Joseph were Jews, not Muslims, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*CAIR-NY Rep on Al Jazeera to Discuss Ruling That No-Fly List is Unconstitutional*

**


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


>




This is too funny.  It so happens (according to legend) that Joseph and Mary of Nazareth were Judeo-Galilean when the traveled to Bethlehem for the census.  So they would have been able to by-pass the check-points. 

Obviously, these are Hostile Arab imposters, attempting a covert infiltration...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Synonyms for Israel are terrorism and vandalism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Synonyms for Arab are whiney, cry baby and loser.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israelis can now rest. Israel has finally slaughtered 5 year old Ahmed abu Abed, who was shot in the eye by Israeli snipers last friday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian family from Bethlehem in 1919


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Putting a Dent into the Opioid Crisis | Manal Fakhoury *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Janna Jihad, Radiance of Resistance 7/29/19(2)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The good old days are those when there was no Israel to occupy Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza can rise from the ashes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



"Palestinians" didn't lose Ottoman land, they never owned it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine under the Israeli occupation is a land where no-one is safe, where every Palestinian is oppressed, terrorized, and exposed to death every day. — with Ayobami Anuoluwapo Olamide.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation demolished the house of this Palestinian man — Kamel al-Rajabi in occupied #Jerusalem!


----------



## P F Tinmore

In Palestine Museum in Woodbridge, Connecticut, a portrait was displayed of the Palestinian medic Razan Najjar, who was killed by the #Israeli forces while doing her job during the #GreatReturnMarch protests.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Only an idiot would claim that hitting a terrorist group is a war crime.


----------



## P F Tinmore

We can only celebrate these beautiful seeds that have born a new generation in the state of California and fed people we don't know and love anyway. This seed power


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

LIVE BLOG UPDATE Muslim Rioting on The Temple Mount on the Day Jews Mourn its Destruction

   I feel the same way about the Palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza City from above

All this and no government, WOW.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Our tax money at work.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

*When the Israelis posted a photograph *of Palestinians on August 2 holding aloft the Palestinian flag with a swastika painted on it, Hamas initially said nothing. It did not explode in outrage, it did not demand that that those who flew the flag with the painted swastika be punished, or even that the symbol of the mass-murdering Nazis be taken down.

That initial indifference of the Palestinian leaders to, or even approval of, the swastika on the flag was not surprising. The Palestinians have flown their flag with a swastika painted on it before, on April 20,2018. On the same day, they let loose an incendiary kite, also with a swastika painted on it. No Palestinian objected at that time, or since.

After all, the Palestinians and the Nazis go way back. The leader of the Palestine Arabs (the “Palestinian people” had not yet been invented) from the 1920s to the late 1940s was the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin El Husseini. El Husseini, a great admirer of Hitler, spent the war years in Berlin, where he met with the Fuhrer and urged him not to let Jews escape to Palestine, but to keep them in Europe where they might be properly dealt with. The Mufti knew that Hitler would understand. While enjoying a comfortable life in wartime Berlin, the Mufti became friends with Heinrich Himmler and with Adolph Eichmann. He is even believed to have traveled with Eichmann to see Auschwitz up close. It must have been a most inspiring visit.

Among his contributions to the Nazi war effort, the Mufti raised three S.S. brigades among the Bosnian Muslims. After the war he somehow managed to escape being charged as a war criminal by the Allies, and ended up, safe and sound like so many Nazi war criminals, in an Arab land, where the Allies could not reach him. And he lived out his days, in Cairo, without ever being called to account.

The photograph of the swastika flag raised by Palestinians attempting to breach Israel’s security fence was first posted online by Israelis, then picked up and reposted by many others. It took several days for Hamas to figure out that this was damaging to their cause. It made them look bad, as if Hamas supported the Nazi ideology, which, of course, some of its members do.

The message went out from Hamas: no more swastikas. And why was this? Not because Hamas had anything against them. Not because Hamas was ashamed that some Palestinians would identify with the Nazis. No, the swastika should no longer be painted on Palestinian  flags “so that the Israeli occupation cannot take advantage of it.”

But it’s too late. The Israelis can tell the world that the reason the swastika flag is no longer being flown by the Palestinians in Gaza is not moral revulsion, but only so that, in Hamas’ own words, “the Israeli occupation cannot take advantage of it.”

That swastika’ed flag leads naturally to another Nazi-related topic that Israel should bring up.

Here’s what the Israelis can now post:


Worried About its Image, Hamas Now Says No to Swastikas


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Only if you consider firing rockets at innocent Israeli citizens punching back, instead of a war crime.
And firing back at terrorists rape...…...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Is Judea occupied? 
Interesting name, Judea, eh?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Another stupid post; does this approx once a month. He likes to infer that Hamas and the Religious Jewish Community have the same reasons which is not true.
  To post the above without any explanation is a prime example of ignorance and stupidity


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you consider firing rockets at innocent Israeli citizens punching back, instead of a war crime.
> And firing back at terrorists rape...…...
Click to expand...

Oooo, you played the terrorist card.

Good boy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you consider firing rockets at innocent Israeli citizens punching back, instead of a war crime.
> And firing back at terrorists rape...…...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oooo, you played the terrorist card.
> 
> Good boy.
Click to expand...


Hamas rockets aren't terrorism?
What is your favorite flavor paint chip?
Does white really taste like vanilla?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A billboard honoring Palestinian nurse Razan Najjar, who was shot dead by Israeli snipers while she was helping injured Palestinian protesters during the #GreatReturnMarch, is seen in Boston, Massachusetts.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> A billboard honoring Palestinian nurse Razan Najjar, who was shot dead by Israeli snipers while she was helping injured Palestinian protesters during the #GreatReturnMarch, is seen in Boston, Massachusetts.



Did she ever drive one of the weapons smuggling ambulances?
Or were those different heroic Palestinian first responders?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A billboard honoring Palestinian nurse Razan Najjar, who was shot dead by Israeli snipers while she was helping injured Palestinian protesters during the #GreatReturnMarch, is seen in Boston, Massachusetts.




Accidental death by a stray bullet fragment.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers destroy hundreds of trees in Palestinian villages.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An aerial view of the besieged Gaza Strip


----------



## P F Tinmore

*History of Palestine Resistance to Zionism - Leila Farsakh*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *History of Palestine Resistance to Zionism - Leila Farsakh*
> 
> **




History of Arab resistance to equal rights for the Jewish people to self-determination on their historical indigenous homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Despite all the Israeli attempts to destroy Gaza's agriculture, Gaza farmers have harvested 12,000 tons of dates, but have nowhere to sell them.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Laila El Haddad @ Tree Of Life Conference On Israel/Palestine*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Any pictures of Palestinians launching rockets at civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine

Enjoy Tinless


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian women always love to be in the frontline.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian women always love to be in the frontline.



Tinless these are doctored


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless


That is what Israel says.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
Click to expand...


That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Tinless either debate or STFU. Smileys are for children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
Click to expand...

Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> Tinless either debate or STFU. Smileys are for children.


OK.

You funny.

Is that better?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
Click to expand...


What point do you specifically dispute?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian women always love to be in the frontline.



Those are all dudes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinless either debate or STFU. Smileys are for children.
> 
> 
> 
> OK.
> 
> You funny.
> 
> Is that better?
Click to expand...


At least you’re acting like an adult. Yes. Tinless.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What point do you specifically dispute?
Click to expand...

Address my post.


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> There Has Never Been a Sovereign Arab State in Palestine
> 
> Enjoy Tinless
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What point do you specifically dispute?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Address my post.
Click to expand...


Why should I answer your questions when you never answer mine. Tinless.

You must have been one hell of a teacher. Always dodging tough questions.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

AzogtheDefiler said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Israel says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What point do you specifically dispute?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Address my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I answer your questions when you never answer mine. Tinless.
> 
> You must have been one hell of a teacher. Always dodging tough questions.
Click to expand...

You are the one not following the conversation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Childhood on occupied Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza's International Airport, a Palestinian dream - Noor Harazeen Report*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nadia Hijab and Phyllis Bennis in conversation about US and Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi poses with a thank you to the Italian artists who were expelled by Israel for making this beautiful art on the Israeli segregation wall in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Despite the Israeli destruction, we love Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

P F Tinmore said:


> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AzogtheDefiler said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is what logical persons say. You should try It sometime.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What point do you specifically dispute?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Address my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should I answer your questions when you never answer mine. Tinless.
> 
> You must have been one hell of a teacher. Always dodging tough questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one not following the conversation.
Click to expand...


Tough to follow when all you do is post random doctored pictures and smileys


----------



## P F Tinmore

After 8 years, Israel releases about 10 tons of letters and packages sent to Palestinians in occupied Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Outrageous!!!
Only Muslims should be allowed to practice apartheid.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




I don't understand why terrorists insist that there should be no consequences for their violence.  

If Hamas didn't abuse the medical system to commit terror, then there wouldn't be security measures.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

"Palestinian" father chases son with knife and teaches him to stab Jews


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




www.usmessageboard.com/threads/abbas-israel-has-no-connection-to-jewish-history.717851/

Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters


PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall



Abbas Makes It Official: Israel is Arab Palestine


WATCH: Abbas Rewrites History, Creates ‘Palestinian Heritage’


   Since you're against " Apartheid" then you should be against the above ; However we all know there will not be a response

  Wait.....  Aren't you the one who claims there shouldn't even be a Jewish State?   Talk about being a Hypocrite



   I also believe you should go to Israel and inform them they are not " Real Jews"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian Authority’s Lies About Stabbing Terror Exposed by Footage of Attack

   They should get their money back from acting school


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Cultural Program: A Conversation with Film Director Annemarie Jacir*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Military demolition orders for three houses and bricks factory in Nahalin village*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Demolishing a Restaurant at Al Makhrour Southwest of Beit Jala*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Occupation costs Palestinians 'billions'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*This is what the Palestinian economy looks like*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Poverty in Palestine









The 'Miami of the West Bank'


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Peaceful people


----------



## P F Tinmore

Do Israeli snipers kill Palestinian paramedics, children and disabled by mistake?

Hmmm.. they said they knew "where every bullet landed".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The inside of the Dome of the Rock


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Maher: BDS a "Bullsh*t Purity Test"; Media Believes "Jews Must Be Wrong" In Coverage of Palestinians


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Palestinian Authority bans LGBTQ activities in West Bank, reports say


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

https://nypost.com/2019/08/17/omar-...ed-from-visiting-imaginary-country-palestine/


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Artist Emily Jacir Brings the Palestinian Experience to the Venice Biennale*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Artist Emily Jacir Brings the Palestinian Experience to the Venice Biennale*
> 
> **



Is she prepping a rocket under that tent to fire at civilians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian students are celebrating their success at the secondary school examination.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Your smile breaks them.. ✌

The high school student Fadi Rafat Esawi being kidnapped today by Israeli occupation forces right after he was out of school.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hundreds take part in a protest in Nablus, occupied West Bank, against the Bahrain conference and the Deal of the Century, today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Earlier today, the Israeli occupation forces arrested 13 Palestinians, including three children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Thaer is a 15-year-old refugee in #Gaza who lost his leg, his mother and four siblings when his home was bombed in 2014.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians sitting on the rubble of their house, which was demolished by the Israeli occupation forces in Yatta, south of the occupied #Hebron.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jennifer Jajeh on the Los Angeles Run of "I Heart Hamas"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*No Ban, No Wall: Confronting the Militarization of Our Borders and Communities*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Thaer is a 15-year-old refugee in #Gaza who lost his leg, his mother and four siblings when his home was bombed in 2014.



Was it a Hamas rocket that fell short?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem



YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967
Click to expand...

The annexation of the West Bank by Jordan was not internationally recognized.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Free Palestine: Reportback from the World Social Forum*

**
**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Stories of the catastrophe:
"I can close my eyes and remember every single detail about that village. The streets, the neighborhood. The fig and berry trees. Every single detail. It is like I can see it right before my eyes."


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Stories of the catastrophe:
> "I can close my eyes and remember every single detail about that village. The streets, the neighborhood. The fig and berry trees. Every single detail. It is like I can see it right before my eyes."



The night we slaughtered the infidels.....I  remember it all...…..


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



The need to mail those keys back to their Ottoman landlords.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The annexation of the West Bank by Jordan was not internationally recognized.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but it was. It was never referred to as “ occupation “  Please tell us how Jordan successfully deprived the Israelis of their Holy Sites with the International Community’s blessing


----------



## P F Tinmore

The people know what Israel really is.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The annexation of the West Bank by Jordan was not internationally recognized.
Click to expand...



Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia

   They formally annexed it.  Now tell us why Israel was denied access to their Holy Sites contrary to " International Law" and why this was accepted by the " International Community"


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The annexation of the West Bank by Jordan was not internationally recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
> 
> They formally annexed it.  Now tell us why Israel was denied access to their Holy Sites contrary to " International Law" and why this was accepted by the " International Community"
Click to expand...

That is a question for Jordan.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN....,, The area that was officially recognized by the “ International Community “ as part of Jordan until 1967
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The annexation of the West Bank by Jordan was not internationally recognized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
> 
> They formally annexed it.  Now tell us why Israel was denied access to their Holy Sites contrary to " International Law" and why this was accepted by the " International Community"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is a question for Jordan.
Click to expand...


Deflection.  The Israelis being denied will never happen again
  Please tell us why the PLO states Israel has no rights to the Western Wall ?  That will never happen again and you will not respond to it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."

Resorting to outright lies now.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
Click to expand...


Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t 

they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?


The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.

   Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
Click to expand...

Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.

I have read the documents. Few have.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
Click to expand...


Translation; Then Israel doesn’t have to accept the “ 67 Borders” that never existed in the first place. Thank you for that clarification


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation; Then Israel doesn’t have to accept the “ 67 Borders” that never existed in the first place. Thank you for that clarification
Click to expand...

The lines around the West Bank and Gaza are not borders. Since they are not borders, it is the same country on both sides.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
Click to expand...


*They have never been borders.*

If that why the "Palestinians" keep losing more and more land?

Pretty soon you'll be another Liechtenstein.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation; Then Israel doesn’t have to accept the “ 67 Borders” that never existed in the first place. Thank you for that clarification
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lines around the West Bank and Gaza are not borders. Since they are not borders, it is the same country on both sides.
Click to expand...


And Israel is its name...…..


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  "...not posing harm to any Israeli civilians, to any Israeli military installations, or to any Israeli soldiers..."
> 
> Resorting to outright lies now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation; Then Israel doesn’t have to accept the “ 67 Borders” that never existed in the first place. Thank you for that clarification
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lines around the West Bank and Gaza are not borders. Since they are not borders, it is the same country on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel is its name...…..
Click to expand...

So the West Bank and Gaza are Israel?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have a question; What’s the difference between “ armistice lines” and borders?  Why weren’t
> 
> they considered legal borders prior to 1967 and what makes them “ legal “ now?
> 
> 
> The 1949 _Armistice_ Agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent _borders_.
> 
> Got my answer; The Arabs didn't declare the 67 Borders permanent. To all the Pro Palestinian Kool Aid drinkers, feel free to disagree
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation; Then Israel doesn’t have to accept the “ 67 Borders” that never existed in the first place. Thank you for that clarification
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The lines around the West Bank and Gaza are not borders. Since they are not borders, it is the same country on both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Israel is its name...…..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the West Bank and Gaza are Israel?
Click to expand...


Yes, don't get too comfortable...….


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, you are so full of it...



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.


*(COMMENT)*

The Armistice Agreement was only temporary in its authority.  Once the peace treaties were signed, the Armistice the legal authority is dissolved.  They were replaced in their entirety.  Each of the Armistice Agreement (Article XII) states:

"shall remain in force until a *peaceful settlement between the Parties* is achieved." ​The “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force.  The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the treaties; not then - not now.  The Arab Palestinians have prevented such arrangements in good faith:





_
Preamble to:  
Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in Accordance with the *Charter of the United Nations [Article 2(4)]*:
_
_◈   Considering_ that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:

The principle that States shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,


The principle that States *shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
◈  Paragraph 1(4) *Declaration on Principles of International Law*:  _(Given it Authority under the Charter Article 2(4) (supra)_:

Every State has the duty to _refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes_, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.​
Don't try to suggest that you have some special inside knowledge over other members of the Discussion Group.  These passages and concepts have been talked about here many many times; including:

ARTICLE XXI  Settlement of Differences and Disputes → Oslo II Accord _(*Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip*)_ 

Any difference relating to the application of this Agreement shall be referred to the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism established under this Agreement. The provisions of Article XV of the DOP shall apply to any such difference which is not settled through the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism, namely:

1. Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Agreement or any related agreements pertaining to the interim shall be settled through the Liaison Committee.

2. Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be settled by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed between the Parties.

3. The Parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation. To this end, upon the agreement of both Parties, the Parties will establish an Arbitration Committee.​
You should remember what "good-faith" means:


			
				Page 247 Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
			
		

> *good(-)faith.* → Good faith ( _bona fides_ ) is one of the fundamental principles of international law. ‘One of the basic principles governing the creation and performance of legal obligations, whatever their source, is the principle of good faith’: Nuclear Tests Cases 1974 I.C.J. Rep. 254 at 267. Good faith ‘touches every aspect of international law’: 1 Oppenheim 38 .  It is without question one of the general principles of law as specified in art. 38(1) of the Statute of the I.C.J.: see Cheng , General Principles of Law as Applied by International Courts and Tribunals ( 1953 ), Chaps. 4 and 5. It may be more. *The U.N. Charter, art. 2(2) requires States to fulfill all obligations arising under it in good faith. The Friendly Relations Declaration of 20 October 1970 (General Assembly Res. 2625 (XXV)) extends that duty to ‘obligations under the generally recognized principles and rules of international law’.* In the law of treaties, treaties must be observed in good faith: art. 26 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties of 23 May 1969 : 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 . Likewise, treaties must be interpreted in good faith: art. 31(1). Good faith in relation to the formation of treaties is stipulated for by implication by art. 18 which recites that a State is ‘obliged to refrain from acts which would defeat [its] object and purpose’ when it has signed or expressed its consent to be bound by the text of a treaty. See generally O’Connor , Good Faith in International Law ( 1991 ).



Since the signing of the *Oslo Accords*, I don't think anyone can point to an instance of political substance where the Arab Palestinian as (even once) demonstrated - a good-faith effort on a matter of importance leading to peace.  In fact, it is the stated policy of the Arab Palestinian"


Article 9 - *Palestine National Charter of 1968*: *Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.* This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.​Similarly:

Article 13 - *HAMAS Covenant*:  There is *no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad*.  Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​
A "good-faith" effort is emphatically _(to the extreme)_ ruled-out by the major political leadership frameworks and has been a policy followed over a half-century.  Again, don't rely on our friend P F Tinmore to interpret for you.  As you can see, we have the document quotes right here.  Links attached, and you can make your own determination.

*(SIDEBAR)*

 disinformation; misinformation. These words are not synonyms. _(Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage)_

◈  Disinformation = false information deliberately created and spread. 

◈  Misinformation = incorrect information.​
You can determine which is representative of the phrase:  "They have never been borders.  I have read the documents."  If you were going to rate your source, how would you rate it:

Example:  
◈  A-1 Source is the very best - completely trustworthy.
◈  E-5 Unreliable and Untrustworth - Information improbable.  ​



 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

That is what the controversy is all about _(damn'it)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> So the West Bank and Gaza are Israel?


*(COMMENT)*

The answer to that question is the answer to:

Q:  What territory is now - or - ever has been since 1947, under the sovereign control (govern to the exclusion of all other nations) by the Arab Palestinians.

It is my opinion that the Gaza Strip was abandoned _(unilateral withdraw)_ by Israel and left in the hands of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).  This is the Jihadist element that took control.

It is my option that Area "A" is under the Sovereign control of the Arab Palestinian IAW the Oslo Accords.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The lines around the West Bank and Gaza are not borders. Since they are not borders, it is the same country on both sides.



Absolutely.  And there is *ONLY* one country there.  Guess which one it is.


----------



## Mindful

Will this person ever shutup?


Palestinian Leader Abbas Declares: ‘We Shall Enter Jerusalem — Millions of Fighters!’


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


Mindful said:


> Will this person ever shutup?
> Palestinian Leader Abbas Declares: ‘We Shall Enter Jerusalem — Millions of Fighters!’


*(COMMENT)*

I suppose that many nations see such Palestinian Threats → as a threat which is not credible and a threat which is not actionable.

This is a clear violation of the Charter against making threats:  Article 2(4)

This is justification to withhold recognition by the UN and deny full membership.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, you are so full of it...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, a lot of people are confused. They have never been borders.
> 
> I have read the documents. Few have.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Armistice Agreement was only temporary in its authority.  Once the peace treaties were signed, the Armistice the legal authority is dissolved.  They were replaced in their entirety.  Each of the Armistice Agreement (Article XII) states:
> 
> "shall remain in force until a *peaceful settlement between the Parties* is achieved."​The “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force.  The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to the treaties; not then - not now.  The Arab Palestinians have prevented such arrangements in good faith:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Preamble to:
> Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in Accordance with the *Charter of the United Nations [Article 2(4)]*:
> _
> _◈   Considering_ that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:
> 
> The principle that States shall *refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
> 
> 
> The principle that States *shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means* in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
> ◈  Paragraph 1(4) *Declaration on Principles of International Law*:  _(Given it Authority under the Charter Article 2(4) (supra)_:
> 
> Every State has the duty to _refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes_, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.​
> Don't try to suggest that you have some special inside knowledge over other members of the Discussion Group.  These passages and concepts have been talked about here many many times; including:
> 
> ARTICLE XXI  Settlement of Differences and Disputes → Oslo II Accord _(*Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip*)_
> 
> Any difference relating to the application of this Agreement shall be referred to the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism established under this Agreement. The provisions of Article XV of the DOP shall apply to any such difference which is not settled through the appropriate coordination and cooperation mechanism, namely:
> 
> 1. Disputes arising out of the application or interpretation of this Agreement or any related agreements pertaining to the interim shall be settled through the Liaison Committee.
> 
> 2. Disputes which cannot be settled by negotiations may be settled by a mechanism of conciliation to be agreed between the Parties.
> 
> 3. The Parties may agree to submit to arbitration disputes relating to the interim period, which cannot be settled through conciliation. To this end, upon the agreement of both Parties, the Parties will establish an Arbitration Committee.​
> You should remember what "good-faith" means:
> 
> 
> 
> Page 247 Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *good(-)faith.* → Good faith ( _bona fides_ ) is one of the fundamental principles of international law. ‘One of the basic principles governing the creation and performance of legal obligations, whatever their source, is the principle of good faith’: Nuclear Tests Cases 1974 I.C.J. Rep. 254 at 267. Good faith ‘touches every aspect of international law’: 1 Oppenheim 38 .  It is without question one of the general principles of law as specified in art. 38(1) of the Statute of the I.C.J.: see Cheng , General Principles of Law as Applied by International Courts and Tribunals ( 1953 ), Chaps. 4 and 5. It may be more. *The U.N. Charter, art. 2(2) requires States to fulfill all obligations arising under it in good faith. The Friendly Relations Declaration of 20 October 1970 (General Assembly Res. 2625 (XXV)) extends that duty to ‘obligations under the generally recognized principles and rules of international law’.* In the law of treaties, treaties must be observed in good faith: art. 26 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties of 23 May 1969 : 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 . Likewise, treaties must be interpreted in good faith: art. 31(1). Good faith in relation to the formation of treaties is stipulated for by implication by art. 18 which recites that a State is ‘obliged to refrain from acts which would defeat [its] object and purpose’ when it has signed or expressed its consent to be bound by the text of a treaty. See generally O’Connor , Good Faith in International Law ( 1991 ).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since the signing of the *Oslo Accords*, I don't think anyone can point to an instance of political substance where the Arab Palestinian as (even once) demonstrated - a good-faith effort on a matter of importance leading to peace.  In fact, it is the stated policy of the Arab Palestinian"
> 
> 
> Article 9 - *Palestine National Charter of 1968*: *Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.* This is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it. They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.​Similarly:
> 
> Article 13 - *HAMAS Covenant*:  There is *no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad*.  Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.​
> A "good-faith" effort is emphatically _(to the extreme)_ ruled-out by the major political leadership frameworks and has been a policy followed over a half-century.  Again, don't rely on our friend P F Tinmore to interpret for you.  As you can see, we have the document quotes right here.  Links attached, and you can make your own determination.
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> 
> View attachment 275588 disinformation; misinformation. These words are not synonyms. _(Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage)_
> 
> ◈  Disinformation = false information deliberately created and spread.
> 
> ◈  Misinformation = incorrect information.​
> You can determine which is representative of the phrase:  "They have never been borders.  I have read the documents."  If you were going to rate your source, how would you rate it:
> 
> Example:
> ◈  A-1 Source is the very best - completely trustworthy.
> ◈  E-5 Unreliable and Untrustworth - Information improbable.  ​
> 
> View attachment 275589​
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman!!!

Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not. They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces. They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.

The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.

I have seen no documents changing that reality.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abby Martin Interview - Gaza Fights For Freedom*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you garbled much of this - unnessasrily.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not.
> They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I happen to agree with your conclusion here, BUT I question your total understand of the Armistice Arrangement.
> 
> Under Artcle 6 • *Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)* • Every State possesses capacity to conclude treaties. The authority of an Armistice is between Military Field Commanders, not "states."  However, under the *A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970)* - wherein:  "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines*, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​
> Now, whatever the "Treaty says" is the "new authority."
> ◈  *Article II • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)*
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​◈  Article 3 • *International Boundary •  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)*
> 
> *The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.[/u]
> 
> *
> 
> 
> *The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.*[/U]​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> I have seen no documents changing that reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are completely missing (smokescreening) the point.


RoccoR said:


> "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines*, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect.


If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.

How can the Palestinians violate such a line?

And what about all of the other armistice lines that follow Palestine's international borders?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Holy smokescreen, Batman!!!
> 
> Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not. They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces. They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.
> 
> The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> I have seen no documents changing that reality.



Question for you.  

Can a State abandon territory?  If it does, what is the legal status of that territory?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you garbled much of this - unnessasrily.



P F Tinmore said:


> Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not.
> They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces.


*(COMMENT)*

I happen to agree with your conclusion here, BUT I question your total understand of the Armistice Arrangement.

Under Article 6 • *Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)* • Every State possesses the capacity to conclude treaties. The authority of an Armistice is between Military Field Commanders, not "states."  However, under the *A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970)* - wherein:  "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines*, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​
Now, whatever the "Treaty says" is the "new authority."
◈  *Article II • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)*
The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​◈  Article 3 • *International Boundary •  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)*
The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.

*The boundary*, as set out in Annex I (a), *is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel*, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.​


P F Tinmore said:


> They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you use the ambiguous "Palestine" designation.  Prior to 1988, the land was designated as the former Territory to which the Mandate Applied.  The Government of Palestine were the Egyptians over Gaza and the British over the West Bank.

◈   Everything concerning the boundaries of the Gaza Strip was reset to Israel in 1974.  In 2005, it was altered again.​
◈   Everything concerning the boundaries of the West Bank was reset by the Oslo Accords and the Peace Treaty.​


P F Tinmore said:


> The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> I have seen no documents changing that reality.


*(COMMENT)*

That is correct as far as it goes.  Like I stated before, the Arab Palestinians declined to participate in nation-building processes; and additionally, declined to negotiate for a Treaty of Peace with Israel.

False Notion.  No matter what you think you understand → there was no State of Palestine on the cessation of hostilities in 1949.  However, there was a State of Israel.

This notion that there was a demarcation line with this undefined "Palestine" on both side, is as ridiculous as it is totally wrong.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> It was still Palestine on both sides.



The government of Palestine declared independence and changed her name to Israel years ago.  Try to keep up.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is not now, nor has there ever been, a negotiated boundary between the State of Israel and the entity masquerading as the State of Palestine. 



P F Tinmore said:


> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> How can the Palestinians violate such a line?
> 
> And what about all of the other armistice lines that follow Palestine's international borders?


*(COMMENT)*

I have sent you the recognized borders for Israel and Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt several times.  The entity masquerading as the State of Palestine has declined to negotiate at all on the borders.

The authority for the Armistice Lines, dissolved with the Treaty Arrangement between Egyt and Israel ---  and Jordan and Israel.   The entity masquerading as the State of Palestine has no agreement with anyone on the demarcation of permanent international boundaries.

And as you are so fond of saying, there is nothing that says otherwise.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman!!!
> 
> Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not. They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces. They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.
> 
> The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> I have seen no documents changing that reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question for you.
> 
> Can a State abandon territory?  If it does, what is the legal status of that territory?
Click to expand...

What state abandoned territory?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.



Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What state abandoned territory?



Several have, over time.  Answer the question.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you garbled much of this - unnessasrily.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simple question: Are the armistice lines borders? Absolutely not.
> They were *specifically not* to be political or territorial boundaries. They were simply to draw a line between military forces.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I happen to agree with your conclusion here, BUT I question your total understand of the Armistice Arrangement.
> 
> Under Article 6 • *Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)* • Every State possesses the capacity to conclude treaties. The authority of an Armistice is between Military Field Commanders, not "states."  However, under the *A/RES/25/2625 - Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970)* - wherein:  "Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines*, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character."​
> Now, whatever the "Treaty says" is the "new authority."
> ◈  *Article II • Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty (26 March 1979)*
> The *permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​◈  Article 3 • *International Boundary •  The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994)*
> The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
> 
> *The boundary*, as set out in Annex I (a), *is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel*, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They were drawn on top of Palestine's International borders with its neighbors. They did not change or replace Palestine's international borders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you use the ambiguous "Palestine" designation.  Prior to 1988, the land was designated as the former Territory to which the Mandate Applied.  The Government of Palestine were the Egyptians over Gaza and the British over the West Bank.
> 
> ◈   Everything concerning the boundaries of the Gaza Strip was reset to Israel in 1974.  In 2005, it was altered again.​
> ◈   Everything concerning the boundaries of the West Bank was reset by the Oslo Accords and the Peace Treaty.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The exceptions were around the West Bank and Gaza. Here again, they were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. They did not separate two countries. It was still Palestine on both sides.
> 
> I have seen no documents changing that reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That is correct as far as it goes.  Like I stated before, the Arab Palestinians declined to participate in nation-building processes; and additionally, declined to negotiate for a Treaty of Peace with Israel.
> 
> False Notion.  No matter what you think you understand → there was no State of Palestine on the cessation of hostilities in 1949.  However, there was a State of Israel.
> 
> This notion that there was a demarcation line with this undefined "Palestine" on both side, is as ridiculous as it is totally wrong.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> False Notion. No matter what you think you understand → there was no State of Palestine on the cessation of hostilities in 1949. However, there was a State of Israel.



Links? What did the armistice agreements say about the mandate, Palestine, Israel, and borders?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I have sent you the recognized borders for Israel and Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt several times. The entity masquerading as the State of Palestine has declined to negotiate at all on the borders.


Why would they want to change their borders?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have sent you the recognized borders for Israel and Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt several times. The entity masquerading as the State of Palestine has declined to negotiate at all on the borders.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would they want to change their borders?
Click to expand...


Liechtenstein!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Remedy: Jamal Simmons chats with Rashida Tlaib about overcoming obstacles*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore 

Answer the question.  What happens when a state abandons territory?  What is the legal status of the territory?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.  

Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Can't prove a negative. How about you prove the positive.


Then why do you blabber on about something you can't prove? If you can't prove it, it is a lie.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?
Click to expand...

In support, the court said that the United States in 1932 had taken the position that Palestine was a state: "This the Executive branch of the Government did in 1932," the court explained, "with respect to the operation of the most favored nations provision in treaties of commerce."84 The court found a reference to the 1932 episode in the State Department's digest of international law, where it is mentioned as indicating that the United States considered that Palestine was a state.

The issue turned on whether Palestine was a state. To test the waters, Britain made discreet diplomatic inquiries to ask whether, if Britain were to exempt Palestine, the United States would claim a similar exemption on the basis that Palestine was a state. The United States replied emphatically that it would. The British government was so anxious to exempt Palestine without losing tariff revenue on goods from the United States and several other states, that it examined the possibility of suing on the matter in the PCIJ. The British government's own legal office advised against suing, however, because the PCIJ had already said that Palestine was a state that was successor to Turkey with respect to the territory of Palestine.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative. How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why do you blabber on about something you can't prove? If you can't prove it, it is a lie.
Click to expand...


Oh I have dozens of documents to prove the existence of any country you care to name.

Have you got even one to prove the existence of Atlantis. Um I mean Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> If an armistice line, that is not a border, is drawn through Palestine, then it is Palestine on both sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative. How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why do you blabber on about something you can't prove? If you can't prove it, it is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I have dozens of documents to prove the existence of any country you care to name.
> 
> Have you got even one to prove the existence of Atlantis. Um I mean Palestine?
Click to expand...

The US said that Palestine was a state. The PCIJ said that Palestine was a state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at the Cannes film festival today. 

[Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian chef Joudie Kalla on her coobook Baladi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Zionism & the Apartheid State Of Israel | Ken O'Keefe, Jenny Tonge & Dr Ghada Karmi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

The entire question about "apartheid" and "occupation:"  Today's Arab Palestinian, just like this panelist, claim that the Arab Palestinian is "trying to go home."  But in fact, they never lived in Israel.  It is not their home and never was their home.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Zionism & the Apartheid State Of Israel | Ken O'Keefe, Jenny Tonge & Dr Ghada Karmi*


*(COMMENT)*

 The partition is NOT an "apartheid" wall, but rather a border marker.  The question of "return" was a question resolved in war.  Isreal 'vs' Arab League.  The Arab Palestinians did not like the outcome, so they continue to perpetuate hatred and conflict down through each succeeding generation.

But make no mistake, rabble-rousers like O'Keefe nothing more than troublemakers that don't know howto contribute to society in any other way except to try and to justify → Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence.


............
Most Respectfully,
R

....................
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, no.  An armistice line suggests two competing sovereigns for a territory.  Your attempt to imply a third sovereign ("Palestine") is legally and factually in error.
> 
> 
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative.  How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Link me anything, anything at all, demonstrating that your "Palestine" has a government and is engaging in relations with other States.  A single treaty or document between 1948 and 1988.  Anything.  What you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't prove a negative. How about you prove the positive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why do you blabber on about something you can't prove? If you can't prove it, it is a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh I have dozens of documents to prove the existence of any country you care to name.
> 
> Have you got even one to prove the existence of Atlantis. Um I mean Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US said that Palestine was a state. The PCIJ said that Palestine was a state.
Click to expand...


Yes, a Jewish state.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Lebanese actress Manal Issa holds a sign that reads "Stop the Attack on Gaza" at the premiere of "Solo: A Star Wars Story" at the Cannes film festival today.
> 
> [Photo by Vianney Le Caer/Invision/AP]




What she means is "Israel must stop defending itself from attacks on its citizens and sovereignty".

Its appalling to suggest that a nation has no right to defend itself from violence, especially when it is only applied to the Jewish nation.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The US said that Palestine was a state. The PCIJ said that Palestine was a state.



So your sole source of evidence that Palestine was a state is from 1932, and consists of vague "recognition" by a single country?  And the government of that state was the British under the Mandate (held in trust without sovereignty, yes, don't harp on that, we agree).  

And you some how suggest that this single event gives rise to a State of Palestine which endures under all circumstances, distinguished and separate from Israel, despite the fact that from 1932 right up until arguably 1988 and on some points up to today, it had no government, no control of territory, and no relations with other states.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





IDF: Over 100 bombs, grenades hurled at troops during Friday’s Gaza riots

    These are the animals Israel is dealing with.  Whatever happens; happens


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Challenging the Narrative ft. Dima Khalidi*

**


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*
> 
> **



Like, being ethnically cleansed...…..fer sure!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the #GreatReturnMarch protest tents along Gaza borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ireland stands in solidarity with the #GreatReturnMarch.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



How many weapons in those ambulances?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## vasuderatorrent

Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion? 

Is this a special section?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall


For Palestinians, Selling Land to a Jew Is Punishable by Death




Palestinian land laws - Wikipedia

   There will be no comment; there never is


----------



## P F Tinmore

vasuderatorrent said:


> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?


Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Pick an issue.  You will get a discussion.

v/r
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
Click to expand...


I did. Comment on my post just above yours .


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. Comment on my post just above yours .
Click to expand...

Sure, whenever Jews go to Palestine, they bring Israel with them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Pick an issue.  You will get a discussion.
> 
> v/r
> R
Click to expand...

Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[7] and fled to Gaza.

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia​We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a very debatable position to hold.



PF Tinmore said:


> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.


*(COMMENT)*

Well the first question: 
◈  Who was expelled? 
◈  Who fled the scene?​
The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).



​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?


*(COMMENT)*

Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:

IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
claim of a political injury?​
........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. Comment on my post just above yours .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, whenever Jews go to Palestine, they bring Israel with them.
Click to expand...


Still didn’t address Abbas admitting the “ two State Solution “ isn’t is goal
  Or why you object to Jews not selling land to Palestinians but no objection to Palestinians eligible for the death penalty if they do the same
  Or why they formally declared Jews are not entitled to the Western Wall


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are so full of shit. Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. And that was after the UN resolved that those civilians return home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. Comment on my post just above yours .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, whenever Jews go to Palestine, they bring Israel with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still didn’t address Abbas admitting the “ two State Solution “ isn’t is goal
> Or why you object to Jews not selling land to Palestinians but no objection to Palestinians eligible for the death penalty if they do the same
> Or why they formally declared Jews are not entitled to the Western Wall
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Or why you object to Jews not selling land to Palestinians


Like that is ever going to happen.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are so full of shit. Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. And that was after the UN resolved that those civilians return home.
Click to expand...


* Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. *

Unarmed civilians had their own country? Cool!!!

What was it called?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are so full of shit. Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. And that was after the UN resolved that those civilians return home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> * Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. *
> 
> Unarmed civilians had their own country? Cool!!!
> 
> What was it called?
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Mostly English with a little Arabic.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are so full of shit. Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. And that was after the UN resolved that those civilians return home.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> * Israel occupied the territory of unarmed civilians and built illegal settlements. *
> 
> Unarmed civilians had their own country? Cool!!!
> 
> What was it called?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...


Obviously, if you can't name the country the unarmed civilians had, it must be me deflecting.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is a very debatable position to hold.
> 
> 
> 
> PF Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled and fled to Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well the first question:
> ◈  Who was expelled?
> ◈  Who fled the scene?​
> The second quest revolves around the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL).
> 
> View attachment 276175​IF you can't move the battle _(military objective)_, THEN move the people _(civilians and civilian objects)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]
> 
> Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia
> We know when Israel occupied that territory, but how did Israel legally acquire that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, part of the logic has to do with the fact that there was no Arab Palestinian sovereignty to lay a political claim to the territory in question.  AND no Arab Palestinian organization _(no informal political subdivisions • otherwise)_ even considered opening a set of negotiation.
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate
> the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of
> solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems
> concerning frontiers of States.​Israel did not occupy any sovereign Arab Palestinian Territory.  Nor did Israel incorporate any sovereign territory of the Arab Palestinian.  The question becomes:
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinian had no functional government or position from
> which to argue their soverenty was injured, THEN who should make the
> claim of a political injury?​
> ........View attachment 276174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mostly English with a little Arabic.
Click to expand...


I see her hair. I don't see her husband.

Why isn't she being stoned?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us*


In 2016, they came together to form a club. They applied for official status. They were approved by United Student Government (USG), but denied by Dean Eldredge. A lawsuit was filed, a legal advocacy group hired and petitioners recruited. Some of those petitioners graduated, and new student leaders stepped up to take their place. Now, years later, their labors finally bear fruit, and on Aug. 6, 2019, Fordham was ordered by Judge Nancy Bannon to recognize Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) as a formal club on campus.

It is difficult to overstate the importance of this victory.

University administrators across the nation should look at the wording of the decision and take warning: capricious and unjustified selective enforcement of standards that other groups are not held to does not stand up in court. Such actions are no better than politically motivated censorship and will be judged as such. Pro-Palestinian activists should take heart and use this decision as precedent in defense of their own advocacy against the next stonewalling of their efforts.
*
SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us - The Observer*


----------



## P F Tinmore

_Recognizing​_that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

_Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

_Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

_Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine, *including:

(_a_) The right to self-determination *without external interference;*

(_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. _Reaffirms also_ the* inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property* from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
Palestine exists. The Palestinians exist. The Palestinians have universal inalienable rights.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> _Recognizing_
> that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
> 
> _Expressing its grave concern_ that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
> 
> _Guided_ by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
> 
> _Recalling_ its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
> 
> 1. _Reaffirms_ the inalienable rights of the *Palestinian people in Palestine, *including:
> 
> (_a_) The right to self-determination *without external interference;*
> 
> (_b_) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
> 
> 2. _Reaffirms also_ the* inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property* from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
> 
> UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 and UN General Assembly Resolution 3237​
> Palestine exists. The Palestinians exist. The Palestinians have universal inalienable rights.



_In 1974, the UN General Assembly invited Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to address the General Assembly  during the annual debate on Palestine. Arafat appeared before the UN in fatigue uniform, with his pistol showing. _

Was Arafat your favorite gay Egyptian?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vasuderatorrent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this thread full of pictures and videos without discussion?
> 
> Is this a special section?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question. Most people do not come here to discuss issues. They are here to sling poo and call names. If they cannot yell terrorist or anti Semite, they have nothing to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did. Comment on my post just above yours .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, whenever Jews go to Palestine, they bring Israel with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still didn’t address Abbas admitting the “ two State Solution “ isn’t is goal
> Or why you object to Jews not selling land to Palestinians but no objection to Palestinians eligible for the death penalty if they do the same
> Or why they formally declared Jews are not entitled to the Western Wall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or why you object to Jews not selling land to Palestinians
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like that is ever going to happen.
Click to expand...


1) Yet no objection to Palestinians possibly facing the death penalty if they sold to Jews
2) Still no comment about Jews not being allowed at the Western Wall


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today  (US Domestic Activities)
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Universities are no strangers to student counter-cultures undertakings and protest activities. It is a fact of life that officials have always lived with the threat of violence and the disruptions of normalized activities in the proximity of such gathering.  Various university administrations have had to grapple with these movements that emerged of the last half of the 20th Century and spilling over into the 21st Century.   As my father had said many times, "we will deal with it."



P F Tinmore said:


> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us*
> University administrators across the nation should look at the wording of the decision and take warning: capricious and unjustified selective enforcement of standards that other groups are not held to does not stand up in court. Such actions are no better than politically motivated censorship and will be judged as such. Pro-Palestinian activists should take heart and use this decision as precedent in defense of their own advocacy against the next stonewalling of their efforts.
> 
> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us - The Observer*


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians involved in academic and educational endeavors want to be part of the movement that is opposed to Israeli responsibilities to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety," in the disputed territories. _(Article 43 of the Hague Convention)_ 

To the members of the SJP, who are under the influence of the rarified gases that they are always right, and that the Arab Palestinian commitment to armed struggle is all about → equality coupled with respect and dignity.  They use these lofty words to obscure the various criminal behaviors in the name cause of liberation against oppression furthered by foreign occupation.   From the student standpoint, they see this promotion of acting against the perceived oppression as a great adventure.

But make no mistake → no college student or faculty member under the age of 70 can be a person displaced during the 1948 War of Independence.  And since the creation of the State of Palestine, by Yasser Arafat in 1988, Israel has not taken any territory from the State of Palestine → absolutely none.


........

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today  (US Domestic Activities)
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Universities are no strangers to student counter-cultures undertakings and protest activities. It is a fact of life that officials have always lived with the threat of violence and the disruptions of normalized activities in the proximity of such gathering.  Various university administrations have had to grapple with these movements that emerged of the last half of the 20th Century and spilling over into the 21st Century.   As my father had said many times, "we will deal with it."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us*
> University administrators across the nation should look at the wording of the decision and take warning: capricious and unjustified selective enforcement of standards that other groups are not held to does not stand up in court. Such actions are no better than politically motivated censorship and will be judged as such. Pro-Palestinian activists should take heart and use this decision as precedent in defense of their own advocacy against the next stonewalling of their efforts.
> 
> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us - The Observer*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians involved in academic and educational endeavors want to be part of the movement that is opposed to Israeli responsibilities to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety," in the disputed territories. _(Article 43 of the Hague Convention)_
> 
> To the members of the SJP, who are under the influence of the rarified gases that they are always right, and that the Arab Palestinian commitment to armed struggle is all about → equality coupled with respect and dignity.  They use these lofty words to obscure the various criminal behaviors in the name cause of liberation against oppression furthered by foreign occupation.   From the student standpoint, they see this promotion of acting against the perceived oppression as a great adventure.
> 
> But make no mistake → no college student or faculty member under the age of 70 can be a person displaced during the 1948 War of Independence.  And since the creation of the State of Palestine, by Yasser Arafat in 1988, Israel has not taken any territory from the State of Palestine → absolutely none.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276324
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Huh!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today  (US Domestic Activities)
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Universities are no strangers to student counter-cultures undertakings and protest activities. It is a fact of life that officials have always lived with the threat of violence and the disruptions of normalized activities in the proximity of such gathering.  Various university administrations have had to grapple with these movements that emerged of the last half of the 20th Century and spilling over into the 21st Century.   As my father had said many times, "we will deal with it."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us*
> University administrators across the nation should look at the wording of the decision and take warning: capricious and unjustified selective enforcement of standards that other groups are not held to does not stand up in court. Such actions are no better than politically motivated censorship and will be judged as such. Pro-Palestinian activists should take heart and use this decision as precedent in defense of their own advocacy against the next stonewalling of their efforts.
> 
> *SJP’s Win Is a Victory for All of Us - The Observer*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians involved in academic and educational endeavors want to be part of the movement that is opposed to Israeli responsibilities to "take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety," in the disputed territories. _(Article 43 of the Hague Convention)_
> 
> To the members of the SJP, who are under the influence of the rarified gases that they are always right, and that the Arab Palestinian commitment to armed struggle is all about → equality coupled with respect and dignity.  They use these lofty words to obscure the various criminal behaviors in the name cause of liberation against oppression furthered by foreign occupation.   From the student standpoint, they see this promotion of acting against the perceived oppression as a great adventure.
> 
> But make no mistake → no college student or faculty member under the age of 70 can be a person displaced during the 1948 War of Independence.  And since the creation of the State of Palestine, by Yasser Arafat in 1988, Israel has not taken any territory from the State of Palestine → absolutely none.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 276324
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Huh!
Click to expand...


College students are whiney twats. Like you.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Was the child a terrorist?


----------



## P F Tinmore

12 YEAR OLD AYHAM ISHTEWI TERRORISED BY ISRAELI SOLDIERS


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning my friends --
Apartheid in occupied Palestine!


----------



## P F Tinmore

In #LosAngeles at an event hosted by ANSWER Coalition Los Angeles, Al-Awda Palestinian Right to Return Coalition, LA4Palestine, Jews for Palestinian Right of Return, and Codepink


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

At Plymouth Congregational Church in Washington DC - July 2019


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel called in reinforcements to Al Makhour, north-west of Beit Jala, after a woman confronted soldiers, said Hassan Brejiya, head of the Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee in Bethlehem.

The woman clung to the balustrade of the building's top-floor balcony as Israeli soldiers try to force her away from the building.

Then the bulldozers moved in to level the two-storey home.






Destroying people's homes is lower than whale shit.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!




Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine


Good morning my friends --
Apartheid in occupied Palestine!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel called in reinforcements to Al Makhour, north-west of Beit Jala, after a woman confronted soldiers, said Hassan Brejiya, head of the Wall and Settlement Resistance Committee in Bethlehem.
> 
> The woman clung to the balustrade of the building's top-floor balcony as Israeli soldiers try to force her away from the building.
> 
> Then the bulldozers moved in to level the two-storey home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroying people's homes is lower than whale shit.




1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem

   The Israelis had some good teachers


Allowed but Unwelcome: the Jews of Jordan

  Somehow, " International Law" doesn't apply to them anymore then it did before 1967


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!



Remember when Kuwait kicked out all the Palestinians after the Gulf War? That was awesome!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember when Kuwait kicked out all the Palestinians after the Gulf War? That was awesome!
Click to expand...


Let’s not forget Black September!!!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




This child abuse has got to stop.  Palestinians must stop using their children as soldiers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Congresswoman Betty McCollum's HR 2407, would prohibit any of the $3.8 billion in military aid the U.S. grants annually to Israel from being used to support the mistreatment of Palestinian children in Israeli military detention.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!




Looks like a border checkpoint.  Not much different than the one on the Canadian/US border any given weekday.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Protesters effectively shut down an Israeli-owned factory’s operations for two days. (Photo via Manchester Palestine Action)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Malak Mattar "Palestinian children deserve to live in peace with their families. Our kids deserve to play, learn, live with their families, and to have medication available inside of Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinian children do NOT deserve to be arrested and murdered in cold blood! 
Dedicated to the 6 year old Tariq Zabyne who was killed today…. and to all children whose lives have been taken from them." 

Title “The Last Scene Before Flying with the Dove to Paradise”


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Meh.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Protesters effectively shut down an Israeli-owned factory’s operations for two days. (Photo via Manchester Palestine Action)




Over 60 Palestinians wounded in Nakba Day protests, 9 fires along border

  Gee, I wonder why.  This is only one example


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Faith, fashion, fusion :: Randa Abdel-Fattah*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*100Ways For Peace From Palestine-samih abu zakieh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa - The Blue Between Sky and Water*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli police officers attacked Palestinian Christians during Palm Sunday sermon in Jerusalem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Year of the People - A Musical Medley for Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on the unbreakable spirit of Palestinians*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*2007 • Eqbal Ahmad Lecture • Rashid Khalidi • Hampshire College*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

They missed a terrorist.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tom Gross, Ali Abunimah, Debra Shushan on Bahrain Trump peace plan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*
> 
> **



Translation;
   The destruction of Israel with a Palestinian Majority telling the minority they have no rights or access to their Religious Sites ( Pre 1967)
  Won’t happen .


  However, this is OK?  There will be no response; there never is 
Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Interesting question.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*


*(COMMENT)*

An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Islam as its state religion, and Islamic law as the foundation for political institutions. Current examples of such states see: → Islamic muslim countries Names With Their Capital City and Muslim Population.



			
				Convention on Rights and Duties of States said:
			
		

> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise.





			
				Charter of the United Nations said:
			
		

> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.



Each State has equality with regard to selecting its nature and charater.  And no state has the right to intervene in purely domestic matters.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Third Party

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **


More trouble than they are worth.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Jews in Islamic Countries

   Israel shouldn't be a JEWISH COUNTRY but other Countries are OFFICIALLY Muslim and or Arab????


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation;
> The destruction of Israel with a Palestinian Majority telling the minority they have no rights or access to their Religious Sites ( Pre 1967)
> Won’t happen .
> 
> 
> However, this is OK?  There will be no response; there never is
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters
Click to expand...

Notice that he did not say no Jews as the propagandists claim.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation;
> The destruction of Israel with a Palestinian Majority telling the minority they have no rights or access to their Religious Sites ( Pre 1967)
> Won’t happen .
> 
> 
> However, this is OK?  There will be no response; there never is
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters
Click to expand...


I thank you for finally acknowledging the Racist Palestinian Double Standard


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation;
> The destruction of Israel with a Palestinian Majority telling the minority they have no rights or access to their Religious Sites ( Pre 1967)
> Won’t happen .
> 
> 
> However, this is OK?  There will be no response; there never is
> Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state - Reuters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Notice that he did not say no Jews as the propagandists claim.
Click to expand...


I never claimed Abbas said No Jews 
You don’t think no Israelis isn’t a Racist Double Standard? Typical Pro Palestinian mentality.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Interesting question.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Does Israel Have a Right to Exist as a Jewish State? - Ali Abunimah on Reality Asserts Itself*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An Islamic state is a state that has adopted Islam as its state religion, and Islamic law as the foundation for political institutions. Current examples of such states see: → Islamic muslim countries Names With Their Capital City and Muslim Population.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convention on Rights and Duties of States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charter of the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Each State has equality with regard to selecting its nature and charater.  And no state has the right to intervene in purely domestic matters.
> 
> ........View attachment 277123
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are missing the issues.


----------



## RoccoR

]RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

OK, If I missed your point, then I apologize... 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each State has equality with regard to selecting its nature and character.  And no state has the right to intervene in purely domestic matters.
> 
> 
> 
> You are missing the issues.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Maybe you need to explain to me what I missed.

........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ]RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> OK, If I missed your point, then I apologize...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Each State has equality with regard to selecting its nature and character.  And no state has the right to intervene in purely domestic matters.
> 
> 
> 
> You are missing the issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Maybe you need to explain to me what I missed.
> 
> ........View attachment 277149
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How about the violence required to create Israel and the violence required to maintain Israel?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> How about the violence required to create Israel and the violence required to maintain Israel?



That is a ridiculous inversion of reality.  No violence is needed to sustain Israel.  Nor is any violence required to create a(nother) Palestinian State (or two).


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Violence can be discussed from two perspectives; the actual _(such as knife attacks, savage beatings, shootings, bombings, rocket attacks, kidnap and murder, vehicular homicide,  and torture)_ and the theoretical _(motivations - triggers and suppressers - what might be, what could be)_.

FOOTNOTES:
-----------------------------------
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Version 1.0, London and New York: Routledge (1998)



P F Tinmore said:


> How about the violence required to create Israel and the violence required to maintain Israel?


*(COMMENT)*

The two most common types of of painful, or threatening violence are:

◈  Psychological pressure producing overpowering effects in a physical way; either: 

•  Inflected upon a victim 

•  Incured as a result of flight. ​◈  ‘Verbal violence’ is, in a literal sense, the expressions that produces; either:

•  Mental anguish from the terror or horror.

•  Irrational responses from extreme distress.​
........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about the violence required to create Israel and the violence required to maintain Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a ridiculous inversion of reality.  No violence is needed to sustain Israel.  Nor is any violence required to create a(nother) Palestinian State (or two).
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Accelerates Land Theft & Home Demolitions*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

A job to match his IQ.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A protest in the occupied WestBank against the Apartheid Wall and the Zionist settlements west of Ramallah .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces banned Madlin Abu Issa ( right ) from entering Al Aqsa mosque compound for 4 months and Shefaa Abu Ghalia ( left ) for 2 months.


----------



## P F Tinmore

HSBC invests nearly £100 million in Caterpillar - who supply Israel with bulldozers used to demolish Palestinian homes.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Gotta catch the terrorists young......


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces banned Madlin Abu Issa ( right ) from entering Al Aqsa mosque compound for 4 months and Shefaa Abu Ghalia ( left ) for 2 months.



They should move that mosque to Syria. 
In gravel sized pieces.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the occupied Palestine  ✌


----------



## P F Tinmore

The damage that caused by Zionist colonizers after attacking Palestinian home in the village of Nahalim near Bethlehem.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from the occupied Palestine  ✌



No Palestine to be occupied.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The damage that caused by Zionist colonizers after attacking Palestinian home in the village of Nahalim near Bethlehem.



  The Damage done by Jordanian occupiers in E. Jerusalem in 1948

Islamization of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Comment?  Of course not; there never is 

*Third Islamization of Jerusalem under Jordanian rule[edit]*
Main articles: Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation and Jordanian annexation of the West Bank



The Arab Legion in the process of destroying the synagogue.
Jordan, although mandated by the UN to let Israeli Jews visit their holy sites, refused access to them. They also led a systematic destruction of the Jewish Quarter including many ancient synagogues.[29] Under Jordanian rule of East Jerusalem, all Israelis (irrespective of their religion) were forbidden from entering the Old City and other holy sites.[30] Between 40 000 and 50 000 tombstones from ancient Mount of Olives Jewish Cemetery were desecrated.[31] In the Old City of Jerusalem, the Jewish Quarter was destroyed after the end of fighting. The Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue was destroyed first, which was followed by the destruction of famous Hurva Synagogue built in 1701, first time destroyed by its Arab creditors in 1721 and rebuilt in 1864.[32][33][34] On its part, Israeli authorities destroyed part of Mamila Muslim cemetery, near the armistice line.[35] Altogether, the Jordanians destroyed 56 Synagogues in Jerusalem, while the remaining synagogues were used as toilets, stables and chicken coops.[36] All Jewish inhabitants from the parts of city occupied by Jordan, including residents of Old City Jewish Quarter were expelled. Christian charities and religious institutions were prohibited from buying real estate in Jerusalem. Christian schools were subject to strict regulations.[_citation needed_]




An Arab Legion soldier in ruins of Hurva Synagogue.
*Islamization of the Temple Mount[edit]*
Main article: Islamization of the Temple Mount
Muslim appropriated Islamicize the Temple Mount for exclusive Muslim use after the conquest of the city.[37] Originally an Israelite and subsequently Jewish holy site, as the location of the First and Second Temples, under the Byzantine Empire the site was essentially deserted,[38] though a public building may have been erected, perhaps a church, with an elaborate mosaic floor, some of the remains of which have been discovered by the Temple Mount Sifting Project.[39] In 682 CE, 50 years after Muhammad’s death, ‘Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr rebelled against the Caliph of Damascus, conquered Mecca and thus, according to Ignaz Goldziher, stopped pilgrims from coming south to the Hajj in Mecca.[40] ‘Abd al-Malik, the Umayyad Caliph, responded by creating a new holy site.[_citation needed_] He chose sura 17, verse 1, “Glory to Him who caused His servant to travel by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We have blessed, in order to show him some of Our Signs, He is indeed the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.”[_citation needed_] And designated the Temple Mount in Jerusalem as the "Farthest Mosque" mentioned in that verse.[_citation needed_]

*Dome of the Rock[edit]*
Main article: Dome of the Rock
Monumental constructions made on the Temple Mount, exemplifying what Gideon Avni calls 'an outstanding manifestation of Islamic rule over Jerusalem,'[41] climaxed at the end of the seventh century, with the construction of the Dome of the Rock in the early 690s when Abd al-Malik was developing his program of Islamization. It was built over the Foundation Stone, the site of the historic Jewish Temple.[42] The al-Aqsa mosque was built at the southern end of the mount in the 8th-century.

Throughout the entire period of the Muslim conquest until the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, various structures were built on the mount including memorial sites and gates.[43]

From the 13th-century onwards, after the Muslims had regained control of the city, building projects in Jerusalem and around the Temple Mount sought to further establish the city’s Islamic character.[44]

After the conquest of the city by Saladin, non-Muslims were permitted to set foot on the Temple Mount.[45]

*Al-Aqsa Mosque[edit]*
Main article: Al-Aqsa Mosque
It is unknown exactly when the al-Aqsa Mosque was first constructed and who ordered its construction, but it is certain that it was built in the early Umayyad period of rule in Palestine. Architectural historian K. A. C. Creswell, referring to a testimony by Arculf, a Gallic monk, during his pilgrimage to Palestine in 679–82, notes the possibility that the second caliph of the Rashidun Caliphate, Umar ibn al-Khattab, erected a primitive quadrangular building for a capacity of 3,000 worshipers somewhere on the Haram ash-Sharif. However, Arculf visited Palestine during the reign of Mu'awiyah I, and it is possible that Mu'awiyah ordered the construction, not Umar. This latter claim is explicitly supported by the early Muslim scholar al-Muthahhar bin Tahir.[16]

*Post 1948 period of Jordanian rule to 1967[edit]*



An Arab Legion soldier in ruins of Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue.
*Destruction of Temple Mount antiquities, 1995–2001[edit]*
See also: Temple Denial
Between 1995 and 2001, the Islamic Waqf carried out extensive construction work in order to build the biggest mosque in the region named Marwani mosque, with a capacity of 10,000 worshippers in an area of about 5,000 square meters. During unsupervised construction, the Waqf obliterated many of the antiquities at Solomon's Stables section of Temple Mount. The original Herodian structure was converted into a mosque. The structure stones were stripped of its original surface.[46] At eastern Hulda gate, the Waqf destroyed the original Herodian ornamentation and later plastered them and painted them over.[47] Tens of truck loads of dirt were dumped into Kidron Walley. Thousands of artifacts from the First Temple period until today[_when?_] were later rescued in the operation named Temple Mount Sifting Project. The findings included some 1000 ancient coins, Israelite bullas with ancient Hebrew inscriptions, 10,000-year-old tools like a blade and scraper, as well as Hasmonean, Ptolemaic and Herodian artifacts, ancient stones with signs of Second Temple destruction and other important artifacts.[48] The Waqf justified its action by calling the site a "mosque from the time of Adam and Eve" and by rejecting Jewish historical connection with the site.[49]


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I tend to think that there is confusion as to the question when we ask about the "solution to the conflict."  The conflict we see today is a direct outcome that was triggered by the adoption of the final decision to impose an Independent Arab and Jewish States; → and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem.  Or a Two-State Solution and a City State.  You see this clearly in the Part One "A" paragraph 3 of *General Assembly Resolution 181 (II)* 29 November 1947.

This outcome is not the "root" of the dispute, which is historical in nature dating back to the run-up of the *Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917*.

This dispute is ever made more complex as the international economic and political interests take hold. 
The conflict has entangled many countries outside the region, especially:
◈  The United States,
◈  The Russian Federation,
◈  Great Britain,
◈  France,
◈  The economic-political organizations of the:
✦  United Nations,
✦  European Union,
✦  Arab League,
✦ Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC)
✦ The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC)
✦ and The Quartet _(United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia)_​
Two key events of 1974: *(Page 233, Dictionary of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Culture, History, and Politics, MACMILLAN REFERENCE USA)*

◈  PLO implicitly accepts two-state solution. At the Palestinian National Council (PNC) in 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) modifies its goal of liberating all of Palestine and focuses on creating a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

◈  The UN and Arab League accept PLO as sole legitimate representative of Palestinians. Yasir Arafat makes first appearance at the UN proposing peace.  _(*Seventh Arab League Summit Conference*_
_*Resolution on Palestine, *Rabat, Morocco 28 october 1974)_​


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?


*(COMMENT)*

“There is always something good in whatever happens.”
..............................................~  _Anonymous Arab Proverb_​(13 June 2019)  The Secretary-General of the Arab League warned against any peace plan that ignores a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  But there is something shallow in this warning in that under the opposing demands placed on such a Two-State Condition set of negotiations, neither side (Israeli-Palestinian) can reach a consensus that will bring then to the table.  By pretending to want peace, they intentionally insure conflict.

The Arab world, for many reasons, is not at all interested in giving
the Palestinian Arabs a state.
The Palestinian Arabs don't really want one either,
because why kill the "refugee"
Goose that lays the Golden Eggs?
_..............................................................................~  Dr. Mordechai Kedar, _
_...............................................................................................Department of Arabic Studies at Bar-Ilan University _
_.......................................................................................05/03/18_​"The Arab world hatred of Israel stems from Israel's success in surviving despite wars, terror, boycotts and the enmity aimed at the Jewish state; it stems from  the fact that there is an existing Jewish state even though Judaism has been superseded by Islam, the 'true religion.' It is exacerbated by Israel's being a democracy while they live under  dictatorships, because Israel is rich and they are poor, because Israel is Paradise compared to Arab countries, many of which resemble nothing so much as the last train stop before Hell (see Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan – and the list goes on) …and most importantly, because Israel has succeeded in areas in which they have failed, and their jealousy drives them up a wall." _(Dr. Mordechai Kedar)_

From the Arab Palestinian standpoint _(West Bank and Gaza)_ without the UNRWA, unemployment would double, and the influx of donor contributions would plummet.  But most importantly, the Arab Palestinians don't actually feel the same hardships as do the people in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, etc.

It is what it is.  Just pretending to want peace is good enough...

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?


Two state solution?

What problem are they trying to resolve?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> I tend to think that there is confusion as to the question when we ask about the "solution to the conflict."  The conflict we see today is a direct outcome that was triggered by the adoption of the final decision to impose an Independent Arab and Jewish States; → and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem.  Or a Two-State Solution and a City State.  You see this clearly in the Part One "A" paragraph 3 of *General Assembly Resolution 181 (II)* 29 November 1947.
> 
> This outcome is not the "root" of the dispute, which is historical in nature dating back to the run-up of the *Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917*.
> 
> This dispute is ever made more complex as the international economic and political interests take hold.
> The conflict has entangled many countries outside the region, especially:
> ◈  The United States,
> ◈  The Russian Federation,
> ◈  Great Britain,
> ◈  France,
> ◈  The economic-political organizations of the:
> ✦  United Nations,
> ✦  European Union,
> ✦  Arab League,
> ✦ Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC)
> ✦ The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC)
> ✦ and The Quartet _(United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia)_​
> Two key events of 1974: *(Page 233, Dictionary of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Culture, History, and Politics, MACMILLAN REFERENCE USA)*
> 
> ◈  PLO implicitly accepts two-state solution. At the Palestinian National Council (PNC) in 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) modifies its goal of liberating all of Palestine and focuses on creating a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> ◈  The UN and Arab League accept PLO as sole legitimate representative of Palestinians. Yasir Arafat makes first appearance at the UN proposing peace.  _(*Seventh Arab League Summit Conference*_
> _*Resolution on Palestine, *Rabat, Morocco 28 october 1974)_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> “There is always something good in whatever happens.”
> ..............................................~  _Anonymous Arab Proverb_​(13 June 2019)  The Secretary-General of the Arab League warned against any peace plan that ignores a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  But there is something shallow in this warning in that under the opposing demands placed on such a Two-State Condition set of negotiations, neither side (Israeli-Palestinian) can reach a consensus that will bring then to the table.  By pretending to want peace, they intentionally insure conflict.
> 
> The Arab world, for many reasons, is not at all interested in giving
> the Palestinian Arabs a state.
> The Palestinian Arabs don't really want one either,
> because why kill the "refugee"
> Goose that lays the Golden Eggs?
> _..............................................................................~  Dr. Mordechai Kedar, _
> _...............................................................................................Department of Arabic Studies at Bar-Ilan University _
> _.......................................................................................05/03/18_​"The Arab world hatred of Israel stems from Israel's success in surviving despite wars, terror, boycotts and the enmity aimed at the Jewish state; it stems from  the fact that there is an existing Jewish state even though Judaism has been superseded by Islam, the 'true religion.' It is exacerbated by Israel's being a democracy while they live under  dictatorships, because Israel is rich and they are poor, because Israel is Paradise compared to Arab countries, many of which resemble nothing so much as the last train stop before Hell (see Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan – and the list goes on) …and most importantly, because Israel has succeeded in areas in which they have failed, and their jealousy drives them up a wall." _(Dr. Mordechai Kedar)_
> 
> From the Arab Palestinian standpoint _(West Bank and Gaza)_ without the UNRWA, unemployment would double, and the influx of donor contributions would plummet.  But most importantly, the Arab Palestinians don't actually feel the same hardships as do the people in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, etc.
> 
> It is what it is.  Just pretending to want peace is good enough...
> 
> .......View attachment 277361.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> This dispute is ever made more complex as the international economic and political interests take hold.
> The conflict has entangled many countries outside the region, especially:
> ◈ The United States,
> ◈ The Russian Federation,
> ◈ Great Britain,
> ◈ France,
> ◈ The economic-political organizations of the:
> ✦  United Nations,
> ✦ European Union,
> ✦ Arab League,
> ✦ Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC)
> ✦ The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC)
> ✦ and The Quartet _(United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia)_


External interference out the ass.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Two state solution?
> 
> What problem are they trying to resolve?
Click to expand...


The infamous “ Two State Solution” which is DOA and always will be
   The Palestinians have no intention of living “ in peace with their neighbors”
    According to “ International Law” Jordan was supposed to let Israelis have access to their Religious Sites; something the PLO has rejected. For that reason alone; it’s DOA
  Olmert offered them almost everything they demanded including control of most of E. Jerusalem and the West Bank


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?
> 
> 
> 
> Two state solution?
> 
> What problem are they trying to resolve?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The infamous “ Two State Solution” which is DOA and always will be
> The Palestinians have no intention of living “ in peace with their neighbors”
> According to “ International Law” Jordan was supposed to let Israelis have access to their Religious Sites; something the PLO has rejected. For that reason alone; it’s DOA
> Olmert offered them almost everything they demanded including control of most of E. Jerusalem and the West Bank
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Palestinian Authority Bans Activities by Gay Rights Group

Very tolerant


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

The ‘oppressed’ Palestine Omar and Tlaib love so much just banned gay and transgender activism


----------



## AzogtheDefiler

Jews and Arabs in British Mandate Palestine | My Jewish Learning


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is just crazy.  



P F Tinmore said:


> External interference out the ass.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians are constantly accusing Israel of not following International Laws, and even make-up fake International Laws, to facilitate such claims.  Now you are claiming that the International Community and its formulation of International Laws is now "external interference."  

It is the case that:  “you can’t have your cake and eat it too*.*”   You cannot attempt to invoke any Arab Palestinian interpretation of Customary, International Humanitarian (C&IHL) and Human Rights Laws (IHRL) against Israel and then, turn around an say that the International Laws are "external interference" with Arab Palestinian actions.  

......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> I tend to think that there is confusion as to the question when we ask about the "solution to the conflict."  The conflict we see today is a direct outcome that was triggered by the adoption of the final decision to impose an Independent Arab and Jewish States; → and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem.  Or a Two-State Solution and a City State.  You see this clearly in the Part One "A" paragraph 3 of *General Assembly Resolution 181 (II)* 29 November 1947.
> 
> This outcome is not the "root" of the dispute, which is historical in nature dating back to the run-up of the *Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917*.
> 
> This dispute is ever made more complex as the international economic and political interests take hold.
> The conflict has entangled many countries outside the region, especially:
> ◈  The United States,
> ◈  The Russian Federation,
> ◈  Great Britain,
> ◈  France,
> ◈  The economic-political organizations of the:
> ✦  United Nations,
> ✦  European Union,
> ✦  Arab League,
> ✦ Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC)
> ✦ The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC)
> ✦ and The Quartet _(United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia)_​
> Two key events of 1974: *(Page 233, Dictionary of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Culture, History, and Politics, MACMILLAN REFERENCE USA)*
> 
> ◈  PLO implicitly accepts two-state solution. At the Palestinian National Council (PNC) in 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) modifies its goal of liberating all of Palestine and focuses on creating a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.
> 
> ◈  The UN and Arab League accept PLO as sole legitimate representative of Palestinians. Yasir Arafat makes first appearance at the UN proposing peace.  _(*Seventh Arab League Summit Conference*_
> _*Resolution on Palestine, *Rabat, Morocco 28 october 1974)_​
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do Palestinians Want a Two-State Solution?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> “There is always something good in whatever happens.”
> ..............................................~  _Anonymous Arab Proverb_​(13 June 2019)  The Secretary-General of the Arab League warned against any peace plan that ignores a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  But there is something shallow in this warning in that under the opposing demands placed on such a Two-State Condition set of negotiations, neither side (Israeli-Palestinian) can reach a consensus that will bring then to the table.  By pretending to want peace, they intentionally insure conflict.
> 
> The Arab world, for many reasons, is not at all interested in giving
> the Palestinian Arabs a state.
> The Palestinian Arabs don't really want one either,
> because why kill the "refugee"
> Goose that lays the Golden Eggs?
> _..............................................................................~  Dr. Mordechai Kedar, _
> _...............................................................................................Department of Arabic Studies at Bar-Ilan University _
> _.......................................................................................05/03/18_​"The Arab world hatred of Israel stems from Israel's success in surviving despite wars, terror, boycotts and the enmity aimed at the Jewish state; it stems from  the fact that there is an existing Jewish state even though Judaism has been superseded by Islam, the 'true religion.' It is exacerbated by Israel's being a democracy while they live under  dictatorships, because Israel is rich and they are poor, because Israel is Paradise compared to Arab countries, many of which resemble nothing so much as the last train stop before Hell (see Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan – and the list goes on) …and most importantly, because Israel has succeeded in areas in which they have failed, and their jealousy drives them up a wall." _(Dr. Mordechai Kedar)_
> 
> From the Arab Palestinian standpoint _(West Bank and Gaza)_ without the UNRWA, unemployment would double, and the influx of donor contributions would plummet.  But most importantly, the Arab Palestinians don't actually feel the same hardships as do the people in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan, etc.
> 
> It is what it is.  Just pretending to want peace is good enough...
> 
> .......View attachment 277361.
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This dispute is ever made more complex as the international economic and political interests take hold.
> The conflict has entangled many countries outside the region, especially:
> ◈ The United States,
> ◈ The Russian Federation,
> ◈ Great Britain,
> ◈ France,
> ◈ The economic-political organizations of the:
> ✦  United Nations,
> ✦ European Union,
> ✦ Arab League,
> ✦ Organization of Petroleum-Exporting Countries (OPEC)
> ✦ The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (GCC)
> ✦ and The Quartet _(United Nations, the United States, the European Union, and Russia)_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> External interference out the ass.
Click to expand...


*External interference out the ass. *

Isn't that (kinda) how that gay Egyptian guy you liked so much got AIDS?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is just crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> External interference out the ass.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians are constantly accusing Israel of not following International Laws, and even make-up fake International Laws, to facilitate such claims.  Now you are claiming that the International Community and its formulation of International Laws is now "external interference."
> 
> It is the case that:  “you can’t have your cake and eat it too*.*”   You cannot attempt to invoke any Arab Palestinian interpretation of Customary, International Humanitarian (C&IHL) and Human Rights Laws (IHRL) against Israel and then, turn around an say that the International Laws are "external interference" with Arab Palestinian actions.
> 
> .........View attachment 277391
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Why is it then that the Palestinians want the laws enforced while Israel and it lackeys always say no.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are looking for one single answer to cover every claim.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why is it then that the Palestinians want the laws enforced while Israel and it lackeys always say no.


*(COMMENT)*

No one reason covers each event you may be making an unspecified reference.  Be specific, each specific action requires an individual examination.  

......... 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israelis torturing non-Jewish children. Australian documentary film. Viewer discretion.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the coast of Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers destroy hundreds of trees in Palestinian villages.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli settlers destroy hundreds of trees in Palestinian villages.



I guess that's Allah's will.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The same stupid ignorant  remark; he posts this approx once a month
  The Palestinians don’t believe the Jewish State should ever exist and many deny Jewish History
    The Hasidic don’t feel that way. They DON’T deny Jewish History . They just feel the State shouldn’t be “ nan made” ; they are waiting for the Messiah


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same stupid ignorant  remark; he posts this approx once a month
> The Palestinians don’t believe the Jewish State should ever exist and many deny Jewish History
> The Hasidic don’t feel that way. They DON’T deny Jewish History . They just feel the State shouldn’t be “ man  made” ; they are waiting for the Messiah
Click to expand...



  Get it?  Of Course not
Ultra-Orthodox & Anti-Zionist | My Jewish Learning



In the words of the (as expounded by Rashi), the people were adjured not to return collectively to the Land of Israel by the exertion of physical force, nor to “rebel against the nations of the world,” nor to “hasten the End.” In short, they were required to wait for the heavenly, complete, miraculous, supernatural, and meta-historical redemption that is totally distinct from the realm of human endeavor. This waiting over two millennia manifests the very essence and singularity of the Jewish people, expressing their faith in divine providence, in the assurance of the prophets, and in messianic destiny.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Girl Power: Meet the YouTube Creators for Change*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine*

**


----------



## The Purge

Muslim haven't changed a bit, even after asshole Kerry tried to exterminate the Jews!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



How can they occupy a non-existent country?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

The things Israel has to do to stop Palestinian suicide bombers.
Just awful, eh?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*HAMAS NEW FACTORY: SUICIDE VESTS FOR GIRLS!*


----------



## Mindful

Hillel Neuer
@HillelNeuer
·
UN rights chief
@MBachelet
just spoke on Palestinian-Israeli conflict & forgot to say ONE word on #Palestinian attacks such as (from March '18-July '19):

 • 8 Israelis killed
 •v 282 wounded
 • 1932 rockets
 • 841 petrol bombs
 • 25 shootings
 • 128 IEDs • 
 • 2155 fires by arson kites


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Hillel Neuer
> @HillelNeuer
> ·
> UN rights chief
> @MBachelet
> just spoke on Palestinian-Israeli conflict & forgot to say ONE word on #Palestinian attacks such as (from March '18-July '19):
> 
> • 8 Israelis killed
> •v 282 wounded
> • 1932 rockets
> • 841 petrol bombs
> • 25 shootings
> • 128 IEDs •
> • 2155 fires by arson kites


Pfffft, drop in the bucket.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hamas leadership, Egyptian delegation meet in Gaza






GAZA, (PIC)

Head of Hamas’s political bureau Ismail Haneyya on Sunday met with a delegation from the Egyptian intelligence at the Movement’s office in the Gaza Strip.

The meeting was attended by Hamas chief in Gaza Yahya al-Sinwar and other senior officials from the Movement.

The two sides discussed several issues of mutual interest, including the bilateral relations, and explored avenues to alleviate the humanitarian suffering of the Gaza population.

They also talked about the mechanisms that should be used to operate the Rafah border crossing and the need to facilitate the travel of passengers upon arrival or departure.

The Hamas leadership reiterated its position on the importance of having strategic relations with Egypt and developing them.

  Read more at  
Hamas leadership, Egyptian delegation meet in Gaza
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Demolishing unlicensed construction, evicting squatters.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>




Makes sense, Arabic speakers should live in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Jerusalem


He is smiling because he is thinking about how many Jews he hopes to stab after delivering the bread.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another crazy terrorist off the streets.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Her face is visible......stone her!!!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



She supports a Jew? Stone her!!!


----------



## toomuchtime_

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her face is visible......stone her!!!
Click to expand...

It would be such a Palestinian thing to do,  but of course after they did it they would claim Israel forced them to.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Prisoners in their own land.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Amal Qabha, 17, was released from Israeli jails after a year and a half in prison.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Play stupid games....win stupid prizes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Peoples have a right to self-determination.  Yes or no?  

Any time you want to argue that yes, peoples have a right to self-determination, but the Jewish people do not have a right to self-determination, its antisemitism.  Plain and simple.  

Your options are:  

1.  No, people do not have a right to self-determination. 
2.  Yes, people have a right to self-determination.
3.  Some people have a right to self-determination and some people do not.  The objective criteria for self-determination (which can be applied to all people) are:  (insert list).


----------



## Mindful

*Gaza*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
September 11, 2019 at 5:00 am*

*Why Egypt Does Not Want to Help Gaza*


Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.


Israel is prepared to do whatever is required to help the Palestinians in return for a cessation of terrorist attacks against Israel. Meanwhile, the Egyptians themselves offer nothing but broken promises regarding the crisis in the Gaza Strip. Egyptian policy, it appears, is based on the assumption that the Gaza Strip is – and must remain – solely the problem of Israel.


Why do Egyptians have to travel all the way to Israel to discuss supplying the Gaza Strip with food, medicine and fuel (through Israel) when Egypt can easily do so through its shared border with the Gaza Strip? The world seems to have forgotten that the Gaza Strip has a shared border not only with Israel, but with Egypt as well.


Egypt's shifting and sometimes contradictory policy toward the Gaza Strip seems to have one goal: to divert attention from Cairo's responsibility for the ongoing plight of its Palestinian neighbors.


Here is what Egypt and the Arab states should be telling Israel: "Thank you for all that you have done so far to help the people of the Gaza Strip. However, these are our Arab brothers. Therefore, it seems fair that we step in and assume this burden."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.


What were those ceasefire understandings?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> What were those ceasefire understandings?
Click to expand...


I don't know why you bother.


I really don't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> What were those ceasefire understandings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know why you bother.
> 
> 
> I really don't.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians are constantly blamed for the ones violating ceasefires but nobody knows what they are.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> What were those ceasefire understandings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know why you bother.
> 
> 
> I really don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are constantly blamed for the ones violating ceasefires but nobody knows what they are.
Click to expand...


Ceasefire: when Arab terrorists promise to stop firing rockets at Israeli civilians and Israel promises not to fire back at the terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> What were those ceasefire understandings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know why you bother.
> 
> 
> I really don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are constantly blamed for the ones violating ceasefires but nobody knows what they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ceasefire: when Arab terrorists promise to stop firing rockets at Israeli civilians and Israel promises not to fire back at the terrorists.
Click to expand...

Not!


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel's goodwill gestures, however, have so far failed to deter Hamas and other Palestinian groups from repeatedly violating the ceasefire understandings.
> 
> 
> 
> What were those ceasefire understandings?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know why you bother.
> 
> 
> I really don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians are constantly blamed for the ones violating ceasefires but nobody knows what they are.
Click to expand...


Oh. How interesting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Where is the Muslim suicide bomber?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>


 
Loser says what?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Looks like a gay kid thrown off a building by Muslims.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza city.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



They should spend their tunnel and rocket money on farming.


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>





 _*“Cruelty to palestinian women.”*_









………this “*cruelty*” to Palestinian women…..it starts from within (within their own kind 

) …….
















 You know it’s ………..*cruel*-*sick* !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Toronto Palestine Film Festival: Sept 18-22, 2019*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat - Justice for Some: The Question of Palestine*

*



*

*Bloor Street United Church, 300 Bloor St W, Toronto, ON M5S 1W3
https://www.facebook.com/events/697513590715681/#*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian nurse Ali Hassanein, 57, who makes oud instruments, at his workshop in the West Bank city of Nablus. Photo by Shadi Jarar’ah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ras Karkar village, west of Ramallah.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




“ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
    Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
   One thing that is never addressed in your silly
You Tube postings;
    E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
  That should be in your next You tube.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




1.  The irony of the last girl saying, "they want to come home".

2.  Its clear that it is not just the government who rejects peace with Israel or the existence of Israel on any territory, its the people.  Knowing that sets Israel's position.  It forces Israel to act as though there will never be peace.  What do you think that means for the Palestinians?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
Click to expand...

Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
Click to expand...


The project that's been kicking Muslim ass for the last 70 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Podcast Ep 8: University must unban Palestine group rules court*

*https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2019-08/ep_8_-_fordham_and_siegebreakers.mp3*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
Click to expand...


Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan

What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
  You will find an excuse: you always do


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
Click to expand...

Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
Click to expand...


Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????      
  Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ The Original Land is Ours; it is ALL  Ours”
> Thank you for admitting that even if Israel left Gaza ( which it did) and the W. Bank they are not interested in living “ in peace with their neighbors “
> One thing that is never addressed in your silly
> You Tube postings;
> E. Jerusalem and Israel’s access to Holy Sites
> That should be in your next You tube.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
Click to expand...


Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
   Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
    You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub at Palestine Expo 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not a neighbor. It is a colonial project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
Click to expand...

OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the U.N. Egypt and Jordan
> 
> What does that have to do with Jordan’s destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples, and digging up Jewish Graves  using them as latrines?
> You will find an excuse: you always do
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
Click to expand...


Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Illegal Settlements - What You Need to Know in 60 seconds*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
Click to expand...

Which Arabs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wadah Khanfer at Palestine Expo 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat: Netanyahu’s Proposed West Bank Annexation Is Logical End to Israel’s Apartheid Policy*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noura Erakat: Netanyahu’s Proposed West Bank Annexation Is Logical End to Israel’s Apartheid Policy*
> 
> **




Logical end to the three no's.  No peace, no recognition, no negotiation.  If a wanna-be state refuses peace, recognition and negotiation, they are not ready to be a state.  Those are the fundamental qualities of statehood.  They leave Israel with no choice but to contain and manage as best they can.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...

If


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...


You’re correct; M


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan are irrelevant? Why? Because you say so????
> Regardless, what does that have to do with destruction of Jewish HolySites, Temples, and using Jewish cemeteries as Latrines??
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...




Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia


  That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re correct; M
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with Palestine?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re correct; M
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. Referring to your double standard and not condemning other Countries for doing what you accuse Israel of
> Even though this is the Palestinian/Israeli. Message board I doubt if the monitors would take off your post condemning Jordan claiming it “ off topic”
> You are too much of a Hypocrite to do so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
Click to expand...

 
      Deflection;  Either you believe in " International Law" for EVERYBODY or you don't.  I can assure you your post will not be deleted if you did condemn what Jordan did
     However, In your case I realize that's expecting too much


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abb
In a conversation with reporters in Ramallah, Abu Rudeina said that Abbas’ speech would focus on the city of “Al-Quds” (Jerusalem) and on the “Palestinian basic principles” from which there would be no withdrawal.

"A new phase has begun in the struggle to preserve the overall goal of our Palestinian people, the Arab nation and the world as a whole, and this is the issue of Al-Quds, with its holy sites to Islam and Christianity, its heritage and history, which some are trying to counterfeit by contradicting all international laws which have always established that Al-Quds is Palestinian and Arab," Abu Rudeina said.
as to tell UN: The goal is Jerusalem

  Notice how he talks about Holy Sites to Islam and Christianity but not to the Jewish Faith?  Exactly what happened pre 1967 ; another reason why the " Two State Solution" is DOA


----------



## Mindful

Good news story out of Germany.

Germany: Bonn bans 4 Palestinian NGO’s from cultural festival for supporting BDS campaign


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re correct; M
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, but don't blame the Palestinians for the actions of others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection;  Either you believe in " International Law" for EVERYBODY or you don't.  I can assure you your post will not be deleted if you did condemn what Jordan did
> However, In your case I realize that's expecting too much
Click to expand...

Jordan was the odd man out in the Arab League. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists, and maybe the British, promised Jordan the West Bank and $3M a year for 5 years if they would not attack Israel in the upcoming 1948 war. They are the ones who created the law that calls for the death penalty for those who sell land to Israelis or their agents. The US now gives Jordan about $2B a year to make peace with Israel.

With the current king and queen, Jordan is now the Arab country with the most sanity.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re correct; M
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection;  Either you believe in " International Law" for EVERYBODY or you don't.  I can assure you your post will not be deleted if you did condemn what Jordan did
> However, In your case I realize that's expecting too much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jordan was the odd man out in the Arab League. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists, and maybe the British, promised Jordan the West Bank and $3M a year for 5 years if they would not attack Israel in the upcoming 1948 war. They are the ones who created the law that calls for the death penalty for those who sell land to Israelis or their agents. The US now gives Jordan about $2B a year to make peace with Israel.
> 
> With the current king and queen, Jordan is now the Arab country with the most sanity.
Click to expand...


The King is more English than Arab.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> 
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re correct; M
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. No condemnation of Arabs for what you claim Israel is doing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> That's right..... Keep telling yourself that the above are just " Israeli talking points" You'll feel better
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection;  Either you believe in " International Law" for EVERYBODY or you don't.  I can assure you your post will not be deleted if you did condemn what Jordan did
> However, In your case I realize that's expecting too much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jordan was the odd man out in the Arab League. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists, and maybe the British, promised Jordan the West Bank and $3M a year for 5 years if they would not attack Israel in the upcoming 1948 war. They are the ones who created the law that calls for the death penalty for those who sell land to Israelis or their agents. The US now gives Jordan about $2B a year to make peace with Israel.
> 
> With the current king and queen, Jordan is now the Arab country with the most sanity.
Click to expand...


Yawn..... Deflection . Has nothing to do with my post and the destruction of Jewish Holy Sites, Temples and turning final resting places of the dead into latrines

Nothing to say about Abbas ( PALESTINE!!!) in my prior post talking about Holy Sites Re; Islam and Christianity; NOT Judaism   Not surprising


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Beautiful Palestine in old times...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*West Bank Story The Musical*


----------



## P F Tinmore

SHAMSAAN Ambassador 13 year old Janna Jihad is a nominee for the “INTERNATIONAL CHILDREN’S PEACE PRIZE” that is awarded annually to a child who fights courageously for children’s rights. WE ARE SO VERY PROUD OF YOU, JANNA‼️ ❤️❤️ She joins a prestigious group of 136 other changemakers from 56 countries were put forward as nominees. The international Children’s Peace Prize has become a global phenomenon and reached out last year to more than 1.2
billion people around the world. 80 girls, 51 boys and six collectives of children were put forward for nomination. This year’s nominees together defend the rights of children on a wide range of issues, including Child Participation, Education, Gender Equality, and various other pressing global challenges. ⭕️ Read more about Janna https://kidsrights.org/nominees/janna and all the other nominees who demonstrate that young age need in no way be a barrier to launching initiatives that improve children’s rights ⭕️ https://kidsrights.org/nominees


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noura Erakat: Netanyahu’s Proposed West Bank Annexation Is Logical End to Israel’s Apartheid Policy*
> 
> **


lol  Are you sure this wasn't a bit from SNL?


----------



## P F Tinmore

The annual grape festival in Hebron, West Bank


----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The annual grape festival in Hebron, West Bank





P F Tinmore said:


> The annual grape festival in Hebron, West Bank



Hebron, where in 1929 the Arabs killed as many Jews as possible, the U. N. ANY Jewish History there yet Israel controls it.   Keep posting !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian schoolgirl walks in an old neighborhood in Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Amal Abu Rqayiq, a single mother, works at her small carpentry workshop in Nuseirat refugee camp in the Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The stunning fields of Burin village, Nablus, occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza City during sunset
Photo by Abdul-Karim Abu Rayyash


----------



## P F Tinmore

A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards



Boy?

He's 30, at least.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards


First of all, the city is called Hebron.  Secondly, there is no context provided.  Who knows what he did?  Perhaps he stabbed someone.  Thirdly, whoever did the arresting, probably didn't call for back-up help.  This squad of soldiers was just patrolling the city together, probably.  Fourthly, like someone already pointed out above, he's hardly a boy.


----------



## watchingfromafar

ForeverYoung436 said:


> First of all, the city is called Hebron. Secondly, there is no context provided. Who knows what he did? Perhaps he stabbed someone.



If you say so. I understand that just after this photo was taken, an IDF sniper shoots the child.
 

Is that true-?
just curious -


----------



## ForeverYoung436

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, the city is called Hebron. Secondly, there is no context provided. Who knows what he did? Perhaps he stabbed someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you say so. I understand that just after this photo was taken, an IDF sniper shoots the child.
> View attachment 279430
> 
> Is that true-?
> just curious -
Click to expand...


I don't know since I've never seen the photo before.  Do you have a link or proof to back up your allegation?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards



Hebron; Where Arabs took pleasure in killing Jews


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, the city is called Hebron. Secondly, there is no context provided. Who knows what he did? Perhaps he stabbed someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you say so. I understand that just after this photo was taken, an IDF sniper shoots the child.
> View attachment 279430
> 
> Is that true-?
> just curious -
Click to expand...



No, its not true.  Faris Odeh, 14, was killed ten days after this photo was taken.  He had a regular habit of participating in gangs of children who used sling shots to throw stones at law enforcement officers. He often expressed a desire to become a martyr. And went deliberately looking for riots to participate in. Stones from sling shots are potentially lethal.  He was shot in the neck while bending down to pick up another stone.  (Likely intended to be a non-lethal shot to legs).






We need another sign for Palestinians which reads:  we are #children not martyrs


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards




This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians protest against a new settlement outpost built on lands belonging to the village of Kafr Malik, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, on 16 August.

 Oren Ziv ActiveStills


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian musician performs during the Palestine International Festival 2019 in Gaza City on 9 July.

 Mahmoud Ajjour APA images


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians protest against a new settlement outpost built on lands belonging to the village of Kafr Malik, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, on 16 August.



Arab Palestinians protest against Jews living on lands in Area C, under full Israeli control.


There I fixed it for you.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians protest against a new settlement outpost built on lands belonging to the village of Kafr Malik, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, on 16 August.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians protest against Jews living on lands in Area C, under full Israeli control.
> 
> 
> There I fixed it for you.
Click to expand...


Actually no new village has been built there for the last 20 years,
they're just crisis actors, blocking roads to get attention for the cameras,
it's a job these days.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Miko Peled: Freedom and Justice - The Keys to Peace in Palestine/Israel*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Back to school in Palestine


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian schools teach kids to love death as Martyrs*

A special celebration broadcast on PA TV from an elementary school included a young child's chant, with the following words:

"I have let the land drink my blood,
I love the way of Martyrdom."

**


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Writer Reacts To Violent Incident Against Christian Residents of Village In Palestinian Authority: It's Not Unusual – And It's An Indicator Of The ISIS Demon In Us All*

_On April 26, 2019, an urgent appeal by the largely Christian residents of the Palestinian village of Jifna, in the Ramallah and Al-Bireh district, was circulated on social media. Addressed to Palestinian Authority (PA) Prime Minister and Interior Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh, it followed a violent incident that had taken place in the village the previous night. The villagers stated in the appeal that armed "rabble" headed by "an influential individual in Ramallah district" had burst into the village, and that gunmen had fired their weapons and thrown rocks and firebombs at their homes, shouting "racist and sectarian" ISIS-like slogans, including demands that they pay _jizya _– the poll tax levied on Christians and Jews living under Muslim rule as a protected and subjugate class. The residents called on Shtayyeh to bring the attackers to justice_ _in order to deter others from similar actions against them. _ _The message also stressed that the villagers were PA citizens with the same rights and responsibilities as other citizens, and protested against the attackers' use of the term "immigrant community" against them.[1]
_





"This criminal attack does not exactly come as a surprise, and it is nothing unusual in our society as the [Palestinian] media repeatedly claim. It was preceded by many attacks of a sectarian nature, and were it not for the general national consciousness and the responsible outlook among the majority, the cycle of sectarian violence would spread [with each new incident]. Most important, though, is that the reactions of the Christians who were attacked showed responsibility, humanity, and caution. This [community] was not drawn into violence, nor into reciprocal exchanges of incitement [with the other]; its members settled for biting their lips honorably and silently, so as not to expand the cycles of violence and so that there be no civil, sectarian war bringing destruction upon the land.

"Anyone who thinks that our country is immune to sectarianism is mistaken. We are no wiser than the Syrians, the Lebanese, or the Iraqis, who destroyed their lands with their own hands for the sake of stupid sectarian slogans. Simply put, those lands have ethnic and sectarian diversity, and their sectarian leaders' coordination with the hostile foreign plots lit in them the fuse of civil war, until these lands were completely destroyed... Here in Palestine, I absolutely think – and I hope I am mistaken – that within every one of us is a sectarian demon, residing and hiding deep within. There are those who succeed in killing this demon, there are those who manage to restrain it, and there are those who hide it for a while and release it at the right moment...

"The Egyptian media brag day and night about [Egyptian] national unity and [Egyptian] Muslim-Christian coexistence. But in fact every time that the bullying masses burst into Christian villages and neighborhoods, attacking them, breaking windows, and burning homes, the government stands idly by and is satisfied with enacting a few pathetic security measures. In Mosul [in Iraq], the Christians and Muslims were neighbors, friends, and colleagues, living together in peace and security. But when ISIS came, dishonoring and expelling the Christians, expropriating their homes, taking their money, and abandoning them in the wilderness – as they did with the Yazidis – the Muslims stood idly by, neither lifting a finger nor defending their neighbors; some of them even joined in the attacks, as if all their common history of coexistence and tolerance was no more than a lie and a [bursting] bubble.

"If [this phenomenon, as manifested by the Jifna attack] isn't uprooted and taken care of on the national level, and if the maximal punishment is not meted out to the criminals, this criminal attack will be another a link in the chain of civil war, security chaos, and societal collapse, just as happened in the neighboring countries. It is not only a security incident. It is an incident that is an indicator of the existence of extremist ISIS thought and extremism concealed in our hearts – exclusionary thinking that negates the other and sees members of other religious communities as denizens of Hell, unbelievers, and misguided, whose sentence is death or expulsion or living in humiliation, under a false motto of religious tolerance...:

Palestinian Writer Reacts To Violent Incident Against Christian Residents of Village In Palestinian Authority: It's Not Unusual – And It's An Indicator Of The ISIS Demon In Us All


----------



## rylah

*Thousands Bury Police Officers Killed in Rare Gaza Attacks*

Thousands of Gazans took part in the funeral procession of three Hamas police officers, Wednesday, August 28, following two deadly bombings in Gaza City. 

Hamas's Interior Ministry said on Wednesday that investigations were ongoing, but an officer close to the probe said a suicide bomber was involved in one of the blasts.  Hamas' security service was investigating whether the other blast also involved a suicide bomber. (AP)


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Back to school in Palestine



Gotta learn to build the bomb belts.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians protest against a new settlement outpost built on lands belonging to the village of Kafr Malik, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, on 16 August.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians protest against Jews living on lands in Area C, under full Israeli control.
> 
> 
> There I fixed it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually no new village has been built there for the last 20 years,
> they're just crisis actors, blocking roads to get attention for the cameras,
> it's a job these days.
Click to expand...



Ugh.

You've heard the expression, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them"?

I posted elsewhere this week, "Arabs are afraid Jews will live near them; Jews are afraid Arabs will kill them".


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians protest against a new settlement outpost built on lands belonging to the village of Kafr Malik, near the central West Bank city of Ramallah, on 16 August.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Palestinians protest against Jews living on lands in Area C, under full Israeli control.
> 
> 
> There I fixed it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually no new village has been built there for the last 20 years,
> they're just crisis actors, blocking roads to get attention for the cameras,
> it's a job these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> You've heard the expression, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them"?
> 
> I posted elsewhere this week, "Arabs are afraid Jews will live near them; Jews are afraid Arabs will kill them".
Click to expand...


Shouldn't that be naturally the opposite?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Mother of stabber: “Muhammad was a real man… a butcher, a lion”*


----------



## rylah

*Honor Killing: Israa Gharib murder sparks protests*

Murdered by her own family in the hospital,
where she was admitted with spine injuries following her post and fall from the balcony,
which she initially survived.

All because of a picture with a man on social media.

**


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> *Honor Killing: Israa Gharib murder sparks protests*
> 
> Murdered by her own family in the hospital,
> where she was admitted with spine injuries following her post and fall from the balcony,
> which she initially survived.
> 
> All because of a picture with a man on social media.
> 
> **



I think we need to be really, REALLY, careful about making "honor" killing exclusive to a particular group.  Femicide exists in almost every culture.  Details vary.  Foundations are mostly the same.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  rylah, et al,

Yes, this is a good beginning towards Arab Palestinian Reformation of peaceful values.  But, I'm not convinced that the Arab Palestinians really want peace.



EXCERPTS • MEMRI July 2019 • rylah said:


> _On April 26, 2019, ... The villagers stated in the appeal that armed "rabble" headed by "an influential individual in Ramallah district" had burst into the village, and that gunmen had fired their weapons and thrown rocks and firebombs at their homes, shouting "racist and sectarian" ISIS-like slogans, including demands that they pay _jizya _– the poll tax levied on Christians and Jews living under Muslim rule as a protected and subjugate class.
> _
> _◈  The residents called on Shtayyeh to bring the attackers to justice_ _in order to deter others from similar actions against them.
> 
> ◈  The message also stressed that the villagers were PA citizens with the same rights and responsibilities as other citizens, and protested against the attackers' use of the term "immigrant community" against them._​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ◈   and were it not for the general national consciousness and the responsible outlook among the majority, the cycle of sectarian violence would spread [with each new incident].
> 
> ◈  "Anyone who thinks that our country is immune to sectarianism is mistaken. We are no wiser than the Syrians, the Lebanese, or the Iraqis, who destroyed their lands with their own hands for the sake of stupid sectarian slogans.
> 
> ✪  Simply put, those lands have ethnic and sectarian diversity, and their sectarian leaders' coordination with the hostile foreign plots lit in them the fuse of civil war, until these lands were completely destroyed...​
> Palestinian Writer Reacts To Violent Incident Against Christian Residents of Village In Palestinian Authority: It's Not Unusual – And It's An Indicator Of The ISIS Demon In Us All


*(COMMENT)*
hostile foreign plots lit in them the fuse of civil war​
Well, I don't believe that these foreign hostile elements advocating condition that will result in Civil War are generated from the Western Alliances.  Certainly, no member of the "Quartet" want an internal conflict that will only weaken them → making them that much more vulnerable for another takeover.  And that will move the Arab Palestinansthat much deeper into the abyss of regional politics.

It looks more like the ISIS and Iran _*(to name a couple)*_.

But!  It is not likely that the general population is going to fix their geed based government.

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> *Honor Killing: Israa Gharib murder sparks protests*
> 
> Murdered by her own family in the hospital,
> where she was admitted with spine injuries following her post and fall from the balcony,
> which she initially survived.
> 
> All because of a picture with a man on social media.
> 
> **



Her brother killed her while the hospital staff did nothing!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Honor Killing: Israa Gharib murder sparks protests*
> 
> Murdered by her own family in the hospital,
> where she was admitted with spine injuries following her post and fall from the balcony,
> which she initially survived.
> 
> All because of a picture with a man on social media.
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we need to be really, REALLY, careful about making "honor" killing exclusive to a particular group.  Femicide exists in almost every culture.  Details vary.  Foundations are mostly the same.
Click to expand...


I think the point rylah is making is that between Israeli and Palestinian society, honor killings are far more likely to happen in the Palestinian territories, and these are the kind of ppl that Israel has to deal with.  Yes, honor killings take place in many more countries, like India for instance, but they're not the subject here.  This is the Israel/Palestine Board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rev. Naim Ateek - A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Khaled Barakat - Fighting Anti-Palestinian Repression in Germany*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian wheelchair users take part in a dabke class at a club in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian farmer picks radish crops in a Gaza field. Photo by Atia Darwish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Occupied Haifa


----------



## P F Tinmore

Today marks the anniversary of the death of the Palestinian cartoonist Naji Al-Ali who was assassinated in London in 1987. Al-Ali was noted for the political criticism of the Arab regimes and Israel in his works. Handala is his most famous character which has become an iconic symbol of Palestinian identity and defiance.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupied Haifa



Occupied Haifa?  That city is within Israel proper, and not considered occupied by anyone in the international community, with the possible exception of Iran.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Elections: Interview with Mustafa Barghouti, Palestinian Politician*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian students in Arab al-Ka'abneh school, near the West Bank city of Jericho, which is threatened with demolition by Israeli occupation authorities. Photo by Shadi Hatem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian boy practices his parkour skills on a Gaza City building. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian young man sells newly-picked figs on a Gaza street.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers assault and arrest 12-year-old Nabil Abu al-Hummus near his home in al-Isawiya village in Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A protester holds a banner that reads: "When people are occupied, resistance is justified. Stop the Israeli occupation of Palestine" during a demonstration against land seizure in favor of settlement construction in Ramallah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces detain a Palestinian child at al-Asbat Gate near al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupied Haifa



“ Occupied Haifa” part of Israel before 1967.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, except you show these pictures as if people like me know the place and context.

These are not military soldiers (ie IDF)...  These are Civilian Border Police of the Ministry of Public Saftey. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.


*(COMMENT)*




 ​
I'm not sure what is going on here.  Do you?  They could be stamping out a fire.  There does not seem to be a victim where their focus and attention are.   Where did you get the idea that there was an assault in progress?

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, except you show these pictures as if people like me know the place and context.
> 
> These are not military soldiers (ie IDF)...  These are Civilian Border Police of the Ministry of Public Saftey.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> View attachment 280096​
> I'm not sure what is going on here.  Do you?  They could be stamping out a fire.  There does not seem to be a victim where their focus and attention are.   Where did you get the idea that there was an assault in progress?
> 
> ........View attachment 280095
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> These are not military soldiers (ie IDF)... These are Civilian Border Police of the Ministry of Public Saftey.


Same old shit, different platter.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, except you show these pictures as if people like me know the place and context.
> 
> These are not military soldiers (ie IDF)...  These are Civilian Border Police of the Ministry of Public Saftey.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 
> View attachment 280096​
> I'm not sure what is going on here.  Do you?  They could be stamping out a fire.  There does not seem to be a victim where their focus and attention are.   Where did you get the idea that there was an assault in progress?
> 
> ........View attachment 280095
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Looks to me like the LEOs are assisting the two medics over some sort of wire fencing.  

Only source of this photo I can find is an article from September 13, concerning the border riots in Gaza, on the Anadolu Agency site.  (Interesting source, Tinmore.  Do you read Arabic?)  Seems unlikely that it is actually Gaza, for a whole lot of reasons.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.



Huh.  The photographer writes on his Facebook page that it is riots in the village Kafr Malik on September 13.  

Shrug.  Who knows.  The Palestinians will grab any photo and use it for whatever propaganda they want.  And useful American idiots will always pick up the BS and flail around with it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.
Click to expand...


It seems that Netanyahu came to speak there because it was the 90th anniversary of the 1929 savage Arab pogrom.  This was the massacre that left 67 Jews butchered to death,  as well as ending the Jewish presence in the second holiest city in Judaism...a presence that had lasted for 4000 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems that Netanyahu came to speak there because it was the 90th anniversary of the 1929 savage Arab pogrom.  This was the massacre that left 67 Jews butchered to death,  as well as ending the Jewish presence in the second holiest city in Judaism...a presence that had lasted for 4000 years.
Click to expand...

Would not have happened without the Zionist colonial project.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems that Netanyahu came to speak there because it was the 90th anniversary of the 1929 savage Arab pogrom.  This was the massacre that left 67 Jews butchered to death,  as well as ending the Jewish presence in the second holiest city in Judaism...a presence that had lasted for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would not have happened without the Zionist colonial project.
Click to expand...


Wait, what?!  So, Jewish presence in Hebron is fine, until, you know, there is Jewish presence in Hebron, in which case, massacring Jews is suddenly okay.  Out of curiosity, just how much Jewish presence in Hebron, in the Jewish homeland, is "permissible" before Arabs start massacring Jews?  I just want to be clear on that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems that Netanyahu came to speak there because it was the 90th anniversary of the 1929 savage Arab pogrom.  This was the massacre that left 67 Jews butchered to death,  as well as ending the Jewish presence in the second holiest city in Judaism...a presence that had lasted for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would not have happened without the Zionist colonial project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  So, Jewish presence in Hebron is fine, until, you know, there is Jewish presence in Hebron, in which case, massacring Jews is suddenly okay.  Out of curiosity, just how much Jewish presence in Hebron, in the Jewish homeland, is "permissible" before Arabs start massacring Jews?  I just want to be clear on that.
Click to expand...

I am not going down that rabbit hole.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A full squad of heavily armed Israeli soldiers arrest a defenseless Palestinian boy in al-Khalil today. Cowards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This took place during Netanyahu's recent visit to Hebron.  Security was especially high because, as per normal, Arab Palestinians called for mass protests and demonstrations, days of rage, a religious war, you know, the usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems that Netanyahu came to speak there because it was the 90th anniversary of the 1929 savage Arab pogrom.  This was the massacre that left 67 Jews butchered to death,  as well as ending the Jewish presence in the second holiest city in Judaism...a presence that had lasted for 4000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would not have happened without the Zionist colonial project.
Click to expand...


Blaming the victim, how original.
So before Zionism, what was the Arabs' excuse for murdering their Jewish neighbors?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ rylah, et al,

A couple of years ago, on some topic here, I wrote a couple of commentaries on the "Warrior Gene ( MAOA-3R ).  And I am sure I utiliozedadditional research before making the contributions.


			
				Environmental and Genetic Influences on Psychopathy said:
			
		

> Researchers from several universities recently collaborated on a study to determine how genetic, environmental, and interpersonal factors influence the development of psychopathy. Psychopathy is characterized by lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors. The researchers sought to determine how environmental factors, such as peer influence, parenting, neglect, or abuse, affected two specific traits of psychopathy—fearless dominance (FD) and impulsive antisociality (IA).
> (*SOURCE:* •  September 12, 2011 • By A GoodTherapy.org News Summary   •)





rylah said:


> Blaming the victim, how original.
> So before Zionism, what was the Arabs' excuse for murdering their Jewish neighbors?
> ​


*(REFERENCEs)*





*(COMMENT)*

And again I would like you to consider that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) exhibit the primary symptoms of a lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors.  I don't think that the MAO-A Gene is the only causal factor in evidence here, but it sure goes a long way in describing the anomalous behaviors the HoAP demonstrate.

◈ •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •

◈ •  Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"  •

*Palestinians: "We Are Proud of You. You Killed Jews!"*
* by Bassam Tawil
October 14, 2016 at 6:30 am*
*•  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9108/palestinians-proud-killed-jews  •*​

Just one man's opinion.

........


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ rylah, et al,
> 
> A couple of years ago, on some topic here, I wrote a couple of commentaries on the "Warrior Gene ( MAOA-3R ).  And I am sure I utiliozedadditional research before making the contributions.
> 
> 
> 
> Environmental and Genetic Influences on Psychopathy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers from several universities recently collaborated on a study to determine how genetic, environmental, and interpersonal factors influence the development of psychopathy. Psychopathy is characterized by lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors. The researchers sought to determine how environmental factors, such as peer influence, parenting, neglect, or abuse, affected two specific traits of psychopathy—fearless dominance (FD) and impulsive antisociality (IA).
> (*SOURCE:* •  September 12, 2011 • By A GoodTherapy.org News Summary   •)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blaming the victim, how original.
> So before Zionism, what was the Arabs' excuse for murdering their Jewish neighbors?
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> View attachment 280175
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And again I would like you to consider that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) exhibit the primary symptoms of a lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors.  I don't think that the MAO-A Gene is the only causal factor in evidence here, but it sure goes a long way in describing the anomalous behaviors the HoAP demonstrate.
> 
> ◈ •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> ◈ •  Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"  •
> 
> *Palestinians: "We Are Proud of You. You Killed Jews!"*
> * by Bassam Tawil
> October 14, 2016 at 6:30 am*
> *•  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9108/palestinians-proud-killed-jews  •*​View attachment 280176​Just one man's opinion.
> 
> ........View attachment 280174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

That depends on when you believe the occupation started.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ rylah, et al,
> 
> A couple of years ago, on some topic here, I wrote a couple of commentaries on the "Warrior Gene ( MAOA-3R ).  And I am sure I utiliozedadditional research before making the contributions.
> 
> 
> 
> Environmental and Genetic Influences on Psychopathy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers from several universities recently collaborated on a study to determine how genetic, environmental, and interpersonal factors influence the development of psychopathy. Psychopathy is characterized by lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors. The researchers sought to determine how environmental factors, such as peer influence, parenting, neglect, or abuse, affected two specific traits of psychopathy—fearless dominance (FD) and impulsive antisociality (IA).
> (*SOURCE:* •  September 12, 2011 • By A GoodTherapy.org News Summary   •)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blaming the victim, how original.
> So before Zionism, what was the Arabs' excuse for murdering their Jewish neighbors?
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCEs)*
> 
> View attachment 280175
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And again I would like you to consider that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) exhibit the primary symptoms of a lack of emotion, dysfunctional attachments, lack of remorse or guilt, and often antisocial tendencies, thought to be caused by genetic factors.  I don't think that the MAO-A Gene is the only causal factor in evidence here, but it sure goes a long way in describing the anomalous behaviors the HoAP demonstrate.
> 
> ◈ •  Palestinian Cleric Nasser Maarouf: A Martyr Killed by Jews Receives a Double Reward; Jihad must be Continued, Abandoning It Causes Discord  •
> 
> ◈ •  Palestinian Arab Official Admits "Killing Israelis is not Terror, it's Legitimate"  •
> 
> *Palestinians: "We Are Proud of You. You Killed Jews!"*
> * by Bassam Tawil
> October 14, 2016 at 6:30 am*
> *•  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9108/palestinians-proud-killed-jews  •*​View attachment 280176​Just one man's opinion.
> 
> ........View attachment 280174
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That depends on when you believe the occupation started.
Click to expand...


Between 634-638.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*It's also called racism, fascism, and settler colonialism.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation militias brutalize Muslim worshipers inside Al-Aqsa Mosque soon after they prayer Eid Al-dha.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks



Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution” 
Thank you!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
Click to expand...

The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.
Click to expand...






*“We can never recognize Israel.”*

apart from the Zionist movement and its facets to this very day.

The Jewish code of law teaches us that a Jew is to be loyal to any ruler he finds himself under during this period of Jewish exile. The Torah, the Bible, teaches us that G-d gave the Holy Land to the Jewish people. They were there for two periods, over four hundred years, with their Holy Temple, in which they served G-d, and they were exiled because they sinned to G-d, Who stipulated that the giving of the land to the Jewish people was stipulated with the adherence to G-d’s will.  When this stipulation was forfeited, the land was taken away. One of the principles of the faith teaches us that G-d will return the land to the Jewish people through His messiah in_His good time_. Any attempt to accelerate this redemption would bring disastrous consequences.

   Keep posting over and over again that " Religious Jews" oppose the State of Israel and actually agree with Hamas.  That is a lie.    The above is the reason

    I wonder how these " Religious Jews" would really feel about the destruction of their Holy Sites, their being forbidden to Visit their Holy Sites especially the Western Wall

    Show me a thread in which these Religious Jews DENY Jewish History !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian Authority Supreme Shari'a Judge And Abbas' Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: The Jews Have No Connection To Jerusalem; This Is An Imperialist Myth And Distortion Of History

   They deny Jewish History.   Now it's your turn.  Show me a thread where Hasidic and Orthodox Jews agree with them.   You can't.
     You lie by inferring things that are not true   Pro Palestinian talking points


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

After the turn into the 20th Century, the PRE-contemporary Pediod was driven by the decision to incorporate the  Balfour Declaration of 1917 into the Post-War Conference of 1920 at San Remo.  During the period immediately following the conclusion of the Great War (WWI of 1918), the captured enemy lands of the Middle East were under the *Occupied Enemy Territory Administration *(OETA) until the concerned Allied Powers could make some sort of plan as to how best to fulfill the promises made to the Sharif of Mecca, and Emir of the Hijaz _(Husayn-McMahon Correspondence)_.  




In terms of the Administration and disposition, all the territory decisions were driven by these three documents:

◈  Husayn-McMahon Correspondence (1914-1918),

◈  Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916),

◈  Balfour Declaration (1917),​​


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

One can clearly see that the first International Agreement on the delineated subdivision of the territories was the _(formerly)_ SECRET agreement between two of the Principal Allied Powers _(French and British)_ (_supra_).  So, in some respect, the chief architects of the may have begun with the 1914 Husayn-McMahon Correspondence _(two partners of the Arab-British Alliance)_ and then the Skyes-Picot _(British-French - two Allied Powers)_.  So, strictly speaking, your blame on the foreign concept is only true in the sense that the architects of the concept _(delineation of the territory)_ did not include those inhabitants under the (OETA) → AKA:  THE ENEMY.   And this is entirely consistent with the protocols of that era.

The Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinian contingent, have to find flaw with as many of the processes of the time _(over a century old) _and era in order to justify the horrific actions they take and the supporting the premise that the Fatah Statement that "Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee."

The Arab Palestinians of today, must find flaws with the decisions of the past in order to justify:  "Since the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli teens Eyal Yifrach, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Fraenkel, 16, in June 2014, the Palestinian Authority has paid over 350,000 shekels (over $ 98,000 today) in terror rewards to the Hamas terrorist convicted of planning their kidnapping and murder and to the families of the other two terrorists who carried out the kidnapping and murder and who were later killed while resisting arrest."

Just My Thoughts,

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *It's also called racism, fascism, and settler colonialism.*



Banned the shit out of her.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> After the turn into the 20th Century, the PRE-contemporary Pediod was driven by the decision to incorporate the  Balfour Declaration of 1917 into the Post-War Conference of 1920 at San Remo.  During the period immediately following the conclusion of the Great War (WWI of 1918), the captured enemy lands of the Middle East were under the *Occupied Enemy Territory Administration *(OETA) until the concerned Allied Powers could make some sort of plan as to how best to fulfill the promises made to the Sharif of Mecca, and Emir of the Hijaz _(Husayn-McMahon Correspondence)_.
> 
> View attachment 280366​
> In terms of the Administration and disposition, all the territory decisions were driven by these three documents:
> 
> ◈  Husayn-McMahon Correspondence (1914-1918),
> 
> ◈  Sykes-Picot Agreement (1916),
> 
> ◈  Balfour Declaration (1917),​View attachment 280371​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One can clearly see that the first International Agreement on the delineated subdivision of the territories was the _(formerly)_ SECRET agreement between two of the Principal Allied Powers _(French and British)_ (_supra_).  So, in some respect, the chief architects of the may have begun with the 1914 Husayn-McMahon Correspondence _(two partners of the Arab-British Alliance)_ and then the Skyes-Picot _(British-French - two Allied Powers)_.  So, strictly speaking, your blame on the foreign concept is only true in the sense that the architects of the concept _(delineation of the territory)_ did not include those inhabitants under the (OETA) → AKA:  THE ENEMY.   And this is entirely consistent with the protocols of that era.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians and the pro-Arab Palestinian contingent, have to find flaw with as many of the processes of the time _(over a century old) _and era in order to justify the horrific actions they take and the supporting the premise that the Fatah Statement that "Murdering 12 Israeli children and 25 adults was a "natural human expression that all human laws guarantee."
> 
> The Arab Palestinians of today, must find flaws with the decisions of the past in order to justify:  "Since the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli teens Eyal Yifrach, 19, Gilad Shaar, 16, and Naftali Fraenkel, 16, in June 2014, the Palestinian Authority has paid over 350,000 shekels (over $ 98,000 today) in terror rewards to the Hamas terrorist convicted of planning their kidnapping and murder and to the families of the other two terrorists who carried out the kidnapping and murder and who were later killed while resisting arrest."
> 
> Just My Thoughts,
> 
> ........View attachment 280362
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The problem is that they plopped a well armed, well funded country on top of Palestine without even pretending to consult the natives.

And if they object they are called terrorists.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.
Click to expand...


Foreign to whom?  Israel will never disappear.  So there will either be an Israel and a New Palestine (as Jared wants to call it), or an Israel with no Palestine at all.  There is no other option than those two.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Orthodox Jewish rabbis on Wednesday expressed solidarity with #US congresswoman Ilhan Omar in a visit to her office in Washington after she was accused of making 'anti-Semitic' remarks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Opposing “ The occupation of Palestine “ he’s stating she believes Israel should be destroyed; nothing about the “ Two State Solution”
> Thank you!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The two state solution has always been a foreign concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Foreign to whom?  Israel will never disappear.  So there will either be an Israel and a New Palestine (as Jared wants to call it), or an Israel with no Palestine at all.  There is no other option than those two.
Click to expand...


Approx once a month Tinmore posts the same thing; Hamas and “ Real Jews” oppose the creation of the Jewish State which is a lie
  When asked about Palestinian denial of Jewish History or forbidden access to Holy Sites there is no response
    I honestly don’t know whether he keeps posting the same thing due to ignorance and stupidity or just plain anger and denial


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK...  Let's backup a minute...

Did you really think that the Allied Powers were going to consult with or seek approval from the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) on the manner of delineation?

The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.  But Israel did participate.  And the attitude of the HoAP towards a cooperative effort in the standing-up territory was negative during the entire Mandate Period.  This negative cooperation grew during the entire Mandate period.  That included the rejection by the HoAP in addressing the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The Jewish Community - capable of working successfully with the Mandate Authority, was taking every opportunity offered to set the conditions for the opening of a survivable independent state.  The Arab Palestinians did not, operating on the "Silver Platter Rule." 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK...  Let's backup a minute...
> 
> Did you really think that the Allied Powers were going to consult with or seek approval from the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) on the manner of delineation?
> 
> The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.  But Israel did participate.  And the attitude of the HoAP towards a cooperative effort in the standing-up territory was negative during the entire Mandate Period.  This negative cooperation grew during the entire Mandate period.  That included the rejection by the HoAP in addressing the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."
> 
> The Jewish Community - capable of working successfully with the Mandate Authority, was taking every opportunity offered to set the conditions for the opening of a survivable independent state.  The Arab Palestinians did not, operating on the "Silver Platter Rule."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R




Arab Palestinians still operate on the "Silver Platter Rule".


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK...  Let's backup a minute...
> 
> Did you really think that the Allied Powers were going to consult with or seek approval from the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) on the manner of delineation?
> 
> The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.  But Israel did participate.  And the attitude of the HoAP towards a cooperative effort in the standing-up territory was negative during the entire Mandate Period.  This negative cooperation grew during the entire Mandate period.  That included the rejection by the HoAP in addressing the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."
> 
> The Jewish Community - capable of working successfully with the Mandate Authority, was taking every opportunity offered to set the conditions for the opening of a survivable independent state.  The Arab Palestinians did not, operating on the "Silver Platter Rule."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.



You have posted this a gazillion times, but you never mentioned what they rejected and why.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK...  Let's backup a minute...
> 
> Did you really think that the Allied Powers were going to consult with or seek approval from the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) on the manner of delineation?
> 
> The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.  But Israel did participate.  And the attitude of the HoAP towards a cooperative effort in the standing-up territory was negative during the entire Mandate Period.  This negative cooperation grew during the entire Mandate period.  That included the rejection by the HoAP in addressing the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."
> 
> The Jewish Community - capable of working successfully with the Mandate Authority, was taking every opportunity offered to set the conditions for the opening of a survivable independent state.  The Arab Palestinians did not, operating on the "Silver Platter Rule."
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The HoAP rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions three times before 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have posted this a gazillion times, but you never mentioned what they rejected and why.
Click to expand...


Their rejections or demands had no rational other than to keep the feudal bourgeoisie families, that were appointed by the Ottoman Caliphate, in their power position.

Let's face it, independence was never their goal


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

That is right.  I don't deny it.  I always mention what, that being institutions of self-governing bodies of government under the right of self-determination. I generally short title it to self-governing institutions; or, Steps Preparatory to Independence; depending on what I'm emphasizing.

I seldom mentioned why they made the rejections  That is because there is no one group of determining factors that explains a majority of its logic.



rylah said:


> Their rejections or demands had no rational other than to keep the feudal bourgeoisie families, that were appointed by the Ottoman Caliphate, in their power position.
> 
> Let's face it, independence was never their goal


*(COMMENT)*

The concept that the All Palestine Government (APalG) is both a foreign government inspired solution and a residual of the Ottoman system of government.  The root cause is, of course, the greed → that being focused on the attainment wealth and influence.  And this comes from the foundation of the period in which the APalG Prime Minister and President were, at the time, a figment of the imagination of the Chief Operating Officers, the Ahmed Hilmi Pasha _(Prime Ministter - ACTING as the FOREIGN SECRETARY)_ and Amin al-Husseini _(President)_. both of whom were commissioned officers in the Ottoman Army.

Rarely do the Victors of War, hand the government back over to the vanquished that renounced rights and title.  That is just not how the prinicples of ethnicity, religion, and nationality, territorial integrity and honesty (good faith) worked in the 17th Century and time of Roman Emperor Ferdinand II.

........
 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ethnic cleansing? More pallies today than ever.
Maybe Israel needs to learn how to ethnically cleanse like the Muzzies?


----------



## rylah




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Stupid post.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


>



Yes, this is a very important fact.  They were not there from time immemorial.  And for saying these truths, Robert Kennedy was assassinated by a Palestinian.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid post.
Click to expand...


What else is new? The stupidest post yet is the one where a Hasidic Jew is dancing with Hamas because they both AGREE Israel should be destroyed inferring it’s for the same reason


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hey Everybody,

     These are not "  REAL JEWS"  !!!!


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the  



P F Tinmore said:


> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​


​*(COMMENT)*

This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.  

When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.

Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.  

Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide. 

I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.

There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement


*(COMMENT)*

This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.

It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Anti BDS laws are based on the lie that BDS is anti Semitic. It is not. The courts are seeing this.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ain't that sweet justice to see a tiny minority of former dhimmis defeat the Caliphate feudals
and return their lot?

That would be a much better world,
if other minorities in the region got independent from Arab subjugation as well.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anti BDS laws are based on the lie that BDS is anti Semitic. It is not. The courts are seeing this.
Click to expand...


I think those laws are based on common principles of incitement to violence, of which racism happens to be the main motivation in this case.

It may be acceptable in much of the US media and political discourse to use skin-color and race,
but in European countries not tolerated as much, in light of major events that led to mass casualties as a result of allowing such rhetoric in the mainstream.

But don't worry, surely no-one doubts Your unique expertise in Israel hatred.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




YAWN.....  “ No Israelis in Palestine “


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





" Right of Return" is DOA for many reasons; this being just one of them.   You having trouble accepting this by posting the same thing over and over again is never going to change the final outcome


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abbas: Israel "is a colonialist project that has no connection to Judaism... The Jews were used as pawns" |PMW Database

    " Israel has no connection to Judaism" yet Tinmore can't understand why they don't want to be under Palestinian Control???


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.
Click to expand...


*Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.*

And there have never been more "Palestinians".

They need to learn Muslim style ethnic cleansing. How many Jews in Mecca?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.*
> 
> And there have never been more "Palestinians".
> 
> They need to learn Muslim style ethnic cleansing. How many Jews in Mecca?
Click to expand...

Ethnic cleansing isn't numbers, it is location.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure that this is true at all.  I don't think this is the basis for BDS.   It is true that a number of the Regional States _(Iraq, Yemen Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Morocco, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates)_ have a history of Jewish behaviors have laws that target Israel.  And it is also true that Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) Movement exclusively targets Israeli commercial activities; Israel being the only Jewish State.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Anti BDS laws are based on the lie that BDS is anti Semitic. It is not. The courts are seeing this.


*(COMMENT)*

There is no bias for any laws against peaceful protest opposing the commercial activities of Israel.  Theoretically, there should be the leeway for any group or nation to peacefully protest any entity for any reason they choose.   The BDS movement is a politically motivated organization that attempts to use the platform of protests using "economic isolation of Israel" as its tool to advance Palestinian political objectives _(liberation of the Palestinians from Israeli oppression)_.  But the BDS Movement is actually the cover and concealment of criminal activities directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to Israeli citizens not taking an active part in the conflict, created for the purpose of inciting violence through the nature of its actual presentation in its claims of oppression.  And the context of BDS is to use the hatred and violence to intimidate Israeli Population; attempting to compel the State of Israel to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the Arab Palestinian criminal objective.

This cover and concealment → is actually a recruitment tool designed to cultivate public support for donations to a Palestinian coalition that includes multiple violent organizations.  As a secondary role, the BDS Movement wants to act as a latent recruitment tool in which it attracts vulnerable and radical personalities to a more active role and ignite violent events into the future.

In some cases, the localized groups have not yet developed the ties to criminal activities "yet_!_"  But the successful establishment of a hostile small scale support cells can be so very dangerous a proposition. 

*(ONE MORE IMPORTANT POINT)*

Such organizations like the BDS Movement have the subtext agenda _(present but not visible or apparent)_ to render the impression that acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power in the disputed territories, 
 seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them is actually against International Humanitarian Law.  What is worse are acts of sabotage or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, are just as illegal...

Don't think for a minute that the BDS Movement is free of responsibility if these types of acts occur as a result of the impression that → what they claim are acts against Israeli Oppression are actually legal.  They are not legal acts.  They are punishable under the law.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at all.  I don't think this is the basis for BDS.   It is true that a number of the Regional States _(Iraq, Yemen Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Morocco, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates)_ have a history of Jewish behaviors have laws that target Israel.  And it is also true that Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) Movement exclusively targets Israeli commercial activities; Israel being the only Jewish State.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti BDS laws are based on the lie that BDS is anti Semitic. It is not. The courts are seeing this.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no bias for any laws against peaceful protest opposing the commercial activities of Israel.  Theoretically, there should be the leeway for any group or nation to peacefully protest any entity for any reason they choose.   The BDS movement is a politically motivated organization that attempts to use the platform of protests using "economic isolation of Israel" as its tool to advance Palestinian political objectives _(liberation of the Palestinians from Israeli oppression)_.  But the BDS Movement is actually the cover and concealment of criminal activities directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to Israeli citizens not taking an active part in the conflict, created for the purpose of inciting violence through the nature of its actual presentation in its claims of oppression.  And the context of BDS is to use the hatred and violence to intimidate Israeli Population; attempting to compel the State of Israel to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the Arab Palestinian criminal objective.
> 
> This cover and concealment → is actually a recruitment tool designed to cultivate public support for donations to a Palestinian coalition that includes multiple violent organizations.  As a secondary role, the BDS Movement wants to act as a latent recruitment tool in which it attracts vulnerable and radical personalities to a more active role and ignite violent events into the future.
> 
> In some cases, the localized groups have not yet developed the ties to criminal activities "yet_!_"  But the successful establishment of a hostile small scale support cells can be so very dangerous a proposition.
> 
> *(ONE MORE IMPORTANT POINT)*
> 
> Such organizations like the BDS Movement have the subtext agenda _(present but not visible or apparent)_ to render the impression that acts solely intended to harm the Occupying Power in the disputed territories,
> seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them is actually against International Humanitarian Law.  What is worse are acts of sabotage or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, are just as illegal...
> 
> Don't think for a minute that the BDS Movement is free of responsibility if these types of acts occur as a result of the impression that → what they claim are acts against Israeli Oppression are actually legal.  They are not legal acts.  They are punishable under the law.
> 
> ........View attachment 280565
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Don't think for a minute that the BDS Movement is free of responsibility if these types of acts occur as a result of the impression that → what they claim are acts against Israeli Oppression are actually legal. They are not legal acts. They are punishable under the law.


I don't think so. Links?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.


*(COMMENT)*

Making crafty little bumper sticker such as this are sometimes very effect propaganda tools used to exaggerate the very important concepts:

◈  It eludes to a manifest pattern of conduct directed against the Arab Palestian.
◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) inflicted certain conditions of life upon Arab Palestinians.
◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) belonged to a particular ethnic group the Jewish Community) while the victims (Arab Palestinians) are oppressed because they are Muslims.
◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct (a national policy) directed against that group (Arab Palestinians). or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.
◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.
​But in the end, it is all about generating emotion and not about the truth.

........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> I don't think so. Links?





RoccoR said:


> I'm not sure that this is true at all. I don't think this is the basis for BDS. It is true that a number of the Regional States _(Iraq, Yemen Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Morocco, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates)_ have a history of Jewish behaviors have laws that target Israel. And it is also true that Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) Movement exclusively targets Israeli commercial activities; Israel being the only Jewish State.


*(RESPONSE)*

✦  LINK:  The 10 most anti-Semitic countries • By Marissa Newman 13 May 2014 •




​


RoccoR said:


> Don't think for a minute that the BDS Movement is free of responsibility if these types of acts occur as a result of the impression that → what they claim are acts against Israeli Oppression are actually legal. They are not legal acts. They are punishable under the law.


*(RESPONSE)*

✦  LINK:  Article 68 •  Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949. • Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty •


........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Making crafty little bumper sticker such as this are sometimes very effect propaganda tools used to exaggerate the very important concepts:
> 
> ◈  It eludes to a manifest pattern of conduct directed against the Arab Palestian.
> ◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) inflicted certain conditions of life upon Arab Palestinians.
> ◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) belonged to a particular ethnic group the Jewish Community) while the victims (Arab Palestinians) are oppressed because they are Muslims.
> ◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar conduct (a national policy) directed against that group (Arab Palestinians). or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.
> ◈  It implies that the perpetrator (Israelis) or was conduct that could itself effect such destruction.
> ​But in the end, it is all about generating emotion and not about the truth.
> 
> ........View attachment 280566
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Wow. you sure are imaginative.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> And what point are you trying to expound upon here?  Neither of these areabout "Palestine Today" but rather, the different opinions held on the
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Israel is defending itself.
> 
> •  Ethnic cleansing is not self-defense.​
> 
> 
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> This first one is an example of a bumper sticker conflict.
> 
> When most people attempt to pit these two concepts against one another _(ethnic cleansing 'vs' self-defense)_, any deep examinations shows that it rapidly becomes political.
> 
> Israel did not ethnically cleanse is used by pro-Palestinian Advocates without any clear definition of what acts constituted ethnic cleansing or what specific provisions of international humanitarian law and human rights were being violated.  But clearly, Israel is many times more culturally diverse than either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
> 
> Without a very clear intention to destroy an ethnic group → and not merely neutralize dangerous aspects/members of that group, that being the Arab Palestinian (specific examples required.).  What is so very clear is that ethnic cleansing does not amount to genocide.
> 
> I think this pro-Palestinian position, is merely shadow boxing.
> 
> There is no question that the continued control and even expansion or control, by the Israelis, is a clear activity addressing a military action in response to an armed attack by the Arab Palestinian, dependent upon the key concepts of necessity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another German Court rules in favor of supporters of BDS Movement
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is actually an event that celebrates the concept of → "they got their day in court" and that the law was not biased or prejudicial against BDS.
> 
> It really means that the Prosecutor did not build a good case which exposes what the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (*BDS*) Movement is all about.
> 
> ........View attachment 280524
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Israel has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians since before day one and that continues today.*
> 
> And there have never been more "Palestinians".
> 
> They need to learn Muslim style ethnic cleansing. How many Jews in Mecca?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ethnic cleansing isn't numbers, it is location.
Click to expand...


So are you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Exclusive: Queen Rania on perception of Muslims in US*

**


----------



## rylah

*Friday Al-Aqsa Mosque Address -  Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State*

During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
*"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?"

*


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> *Friday Al-Aqsa Mosque Address -  Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State*
> 
> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?"
> 
> *




Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friday Al-Aqsa Mosque Address -  Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State*
> 
> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?"
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!
Click to expand...


I've posted this as context to Queen Rania of Jordan attempting to play the victim card,
while the kingdom of Jordan itself governs the Islamic Waqf at the mosque and allows this incitement.

The question rather, is vulgar Jew-hatred merely a convenient political tool to deflect the attention of the socially weak masses from rioting against their failed governments, or is it a basic principle of the Muslim religion they won't give up, even at the stake of their own well being?


----------



## member

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friday Al-Aqsa Mosque Address -  Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State*
> 
> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?"
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted this as context to Queen Rania of Jordan attempting to play the victim card,
> while the kingdom of Jordan itself governs the Islamic Waqf at the mosque and allows this incitement.
> 
> The question rather, is vulgar Jew-hatred merely a convenient political tool to deflect the attention of the socially weak masses from rioting against their failed governments, or is it a basic principle of the Muslim religion they won't give up, even at the stake of their own well being?
Click to expand...


*"basic principle of the Muslim religion..."*
















​


​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, rylah, et al,

Sometimes it is important for the greater audience to hear it from the horse's mouth.



rylah said:


> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?*


*(COMMENT)*

One of the basic, yet latent, reasons for the adjacent Arab Nations demonstrate a very near silence on the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is because the Arab Palestinians pose as much of a potential threat to them, as they pose an actual threat to the Israelis.

Certainly, none of the Kingdoms in the Arab League find this latest Hostile Arab Palestinian Commentary and pro-Caliphate Advocayvery amusing. 



Shusha said:


> Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!


*(COMMENT)*

No one wants to see the Israelis to turn these lunatics loose.  But sometimes it serves to demonstrate the true face of the Arab Palestinians by letting them speak their mind on the world stage.

It will be interesting to hear how the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian Advocates spin this in the media.

........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Friday Al-Aqsa Mosque Address -  Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun Calls on Soldiers, Officers in Muslim Armies to Overthrow Muslim Leaders, Support Those Who Strive to Establish an Islamic State*
> 
> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?"
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted this as context to Queen Rania of Jordan attempting to play the victim card,
> while the kingdom of Jordan itself governs the Islamic Waqf at the mosque and allows this incitement.
> 
> The question rather, is vulgar Jew-hatred merely a convenient political tool to deflect the attention of the socially weak masses from rioting against their failed governments, or is it a basic principle of the Muslim religion they won't give up, even at the stake of their own well being?
Click to expand...



That is a most intriguing question.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, rylah, et al,
> 
> Sometimes it is important for the greater audience to hear it from the horse's mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> During Friday address at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Sheikh Abu Mahdi Baydoun blamed Jordan and other Muslim countries in the region for "supporting Jews". He proceeded further with calling for the establishment of Islamic State on their ruins:
> *"Hasn't the time come for you to rid the nation from the evil of those rulers and support those who loyally strive to establish a Caliphate?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> One of the basic, yet latent, reasons for the adjacent Arab Nations demonstrate a very near silence on the Arab Palestinian 'v' Israeli Conflict is because the Arab Palestinians pose as much of a potential threat to them, as they pose an actual threat to the Israelis.
> 
> Certainly, none of the Kingdoms in the Arab League find this latest Hostile Arab Palestinian Commentary and pro-Caliphate Advocayvery amusing.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel PERMITS this kind of incitement on the Temple Mount?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No one wants to see the Israelis to turn these lunatics loose.  But sometimes it serves to demonstrate the true face of the Arab Palestinians by letting them speak their mind on the world stage.
> 
> It will be interesting to hear how the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian Advocates spin this in the media.
> 
> ........View attachment 280697
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Its the "give them enough rope..." principle.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Woodworker Hisham Kuhail arranges decorative objects at his Gaza City workshop. Photo by Mohammed Dahman.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Boys line up in the morning for daily exercises in a United Nations-run school in Gaza City. Photo by Anne Paq.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian girl walks among her family's livestock in Ein al-Hilweh, an agrarian community in the northern Jordan Valley of the occupied West Bank. Photo by Keren Manor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man argues with Israeli soldiers during the demolition of a Palestinian restaurant in Bethlehem today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Bab al-Qattanin (The Cotton Merchants Gate) is one of the most beautiful gates leading into al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman harvests honey at a farm in Kafr Malik village near the West Bank city of Ramalla. Photo by Shadi Hatem.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Boys line up in the morning for daily exercises in a United Nations-run school in Gaza City. Photo by Anne Paq.



Kill the Jews, Clap your hands......
Kill the Jews, Clap your hands......
Kill the Jews, Clap your hands......


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Bab al-Qattanin (The Cotton Merchants Gate) is one of the most beautiful gates leading into al-Aqsa Mosque.






I'm not allowed in there...._ain't I?_


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
#MyPalestinianSitty


----------



## P F Tinmore

*December 4, 2013 – Nadia Ben-Youssef – The Scott Horton Show *


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty



Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
Click to expand...

Remembering the pre stolen days.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
Click to expand...


Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
Click to expand...


633 A.D.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
Click to expand...


Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman works on a loom in Ramadeen village, south of the West Bank city of al-Khalil. Photo by Mamoun Wazwaz.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
Click to expand...


*There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*

So who did the Muslims steal it from?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian jockey with her horse at a club in Gaza City. Photo by Ezz Al-Zanoon.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
Click to expand...


You say so,
yet the *Palestinian Talmud* was written by local Jewish,
and not a single Arab word in there.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
Click to expand...


Not a right but duty,
because local Jewish population could no longer stand the persecution, 
and called them to help defeat the Muslim occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar, Tlaib condemn Trump, call for end to Israel's 'occupation' of Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

One sided ceasefire.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.



Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.

I moved there recently,
Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
in places even competing with Ramallah.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> One sided ceasefire.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
Click to expand...

Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
Click to expand...


*Gaza government to raze illegal structures*

GAZA CITY (Ma’an) -- The Gaza government announced Monday that it has given directives to its interior ministry to raze what it has termed illegal structures on public lands and enforce previous orders to arrest those trading the land.

Head of the ministry's land department Ibrahim Radwan said those in violation of the order had been given a deadline which has now expired and that officers would maintain permanent checkpoints, supported by police, on public lands to prevent "any violation."

"From now on, those in violation of public land [use] will find no excuse," Radwan said but added that large amounts of public land had been earmarked for agriculture projects in coordination with the ministry of agriculture and for public housing projects.

*Radwan said in the coming days, the ministry will begin enforcing a "wide-scale campaign" to remove structures erected or built on public lands without permission.*

Maan News

Oh so You reserved to name calling, big deal.
What do You call it when Arabs do the same to themselves?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *Omar, Tlaib condemn Trump, call for end to Israel's 'occupation' of Palestine*
> 
> **


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
Click to expand...


And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.


----------



## rylah

Because nothing says 'Progressive ideals',
like teaching Your kid to stab Jews...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
Click to expand...


Do you know that Tinmore has never set foot in Israel or the Palestinian areas?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
Click to expand...


How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you know that Tinmore has never set foot in Israel or the Palestinian areas?
Click to expand...


I know he told us that,
but seeing his sick compulsion to knowingly lie about everything,
leaves me only with hope that might be true as an exception.

Some people just don't deserve it, yikes


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
Click to expand...


Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
Though I used to go pray there before dawn...

I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.

Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
Click to expand...


Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
Click to expand...


That is the whole point.
They did not steal it from anyone.
The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.

It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say so,
> yet the *Palestinian Talmud* was written by local Jewish,
> and not a single Arab word in there.
Click to expand...


Obviously false.
There was no written Hebrew script until around 100 BC.
So it was either written in Aramaic, an Arab language, or was written much latter.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a right but duty,
> because local Jewish population could no longer stand the persecution,
> and called them to help defeat the Muslim occupation.
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
The Arabs never treated Jews badly until the Zionst made it clear they wanted to take over, and they started murdering Arabs.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
Click to expand...


When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.  

So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
> Though I used to go pray there before dawn...
> 
> I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
> People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.
> 
> Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.
Click to expand...



You think you can bribe people to ignore those illegal forced from their homes, with minimum wage server jobs?


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
Click to expand...


And is where many Arabs had their homes illegally confiscated by Israel.

Tell us what you paid for the place you moved into, and from whom you paid for it?


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One sided ceasefire.
Click to expand...


No rockets were ever fired towards Israel until after Israel committed some serious crime, but mass murder.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Gaza government to raze illegal structures*
> 
> GAZA CITY (Ma’an) -- The Gaza government announced Monday that it has given directives to its interior ministry to raze what it has termed illegal structures on public lands and enforce previous orders to arrest those trading the land.
> 
> Head of the ministry's land department Ibrahim Radwan said those in violation of the order had been given a deadline which has now expired and that officers would maintain permanent checkpoints, supported by police, on public lands to prevent "any violation."
> 
> "From now on, those in violation of public land [use] will find no excuse," Radwan said but added that large amounts of public land had been earmarked for agriculture projects in coordination with the ministry of agriculture and for public housing projects.
> 
> *Radwan said in the coming days, the ministry will begin enforcing a "wide-scale campaign" to remove structures erected or built on public lands without permission.*
> 
> Maan News
> 
> Oh so You reserved to name calling, big deal.
> What do You call it when Arabs do the same to themselves?
Click to expand...


These clearly were not public lands, and according to the UN, are out of Israeli jurisdiction.
German banks financed it because the private deeds and titles checked out as legitimate.
The Israelis were in violation of international law, and are committing war crimes.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> Because nothing says 'Progressive ideals',
> like teaching Your kid to stab Jews...



If Muslims or Arabs hated Jews, then no Jews would have existed by now.
Jews have existed for thousands of years because the Arabs and Muslims have protected them and treated them well.
It is only Zionists who have stolen and murdered that had to be punished by the use of force.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
Click to expand...


*That is the whole point.
They did not steal it from anyone.*

Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
Click to expand...


*It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*

I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.

*They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*

Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
Click to expand...


Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.  
 If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
Click to expand...


Liar.  
The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
Click to expand...


The Jewish people originally earned hatred for their invasion of Palestine around 1000 BC, when they massacred Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
The date of 160 AD is when Jews decided to leave.
Waiting for the Messiah is only unrealistic if you do not believe you are the Chosen People.

There is lots of history of Christian hatred of Jews, but none of Arab hatred of Jews.  
If there were, then Jews would not have asked the Arabs to let them back into Palestine, and the Arabs would not have agreed.  It was only later that Zionists started massacring Arabs.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
Click to expand...


Muslims never invaded.
The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
They go back to before 7000 BC.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
> Though I used to go pray there before dawn...
> 
> I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
> People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.
> 
> Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You think you can bribe people to ignore those illegal forced from their homes, with minimum wage server jobs?
Click to expand...


Did you read his post or did you just look at the picture?  He wrote that the Palestinians in Hebron are WEALTHY, with villas and sports cars.  The picture of a KFC store is there to show you that there are modern stores with American brands on every corner, with all the amenities that they might ever need.  80% of Hebron is under Palestinian control, in case you didn't know that.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
Click to expand...


Nah.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims never invaded.
> The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
> There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
> It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
> They go back to before 7000 BC.
Click to expand...


*Muslims never invaded.*

That's funny.

Did they ever invade anywhere?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
Click to expand...

Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people originally earned hatred for their invasion of Palestine around 1000 BC, when they massacred Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
> The date of 160 AD is when Jews decided to leave.
> Waiting for the Messiah is only unrealistic if you do not believe you are the Chosen People.
> 
> There is lots of history of Christian hatred of Jews, but none of Arab hatred of Jews.
> If there were, then Jews would not have asked the Arabs to let them back into Palestine, and the Arabs would not have agreed.  It was only later that Zionists started massacring Arabs.
Click to expand...





https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...on-descendants-discovered-science-dna-a786293


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people originally earned hatred for their invasion of Palestine around 1000 BC, when they massacred Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
> The date of 160 AD is when Jews decided to leave.
> Waiting for the Messiah is only unrealistic if you do not believe you are the Chosen People.
> 
> There is lots of history of Christian hatred of Jews, but none of Arab hatred of Jews.
> If there were, then Jews would not have asked the Arabs to let them back into Palestine, and the Arabs would not have agreed.  It was only later that Zionists started massacring Arabs.
Click to expand...




Scientists just disproved a historical event described in the Bible

    Another Goyim Liar.    
    Don't like it because the Jewish People feel they have certain Rights to the land? Too bad,
   Muslim Anti Semitism has been around for Centuries,  Your denial doesn't change things


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.
Click to expand...


*Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.*

Especially all the ones with Jewish names, eh?


----------



## member

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
Click to expand...




 _*"It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad..."*_



. . .even the [despicable] 

 lowly palestinian terrorist ?


yes.....yes it does MATTER!  .......these creep terrorists 

 - [oooh, my mistake, wrong picture] they're no different than every other *USELESS*, pathetic terrorist group roaming aimlessly around *OUR* planet earth.

crikey mate!  what side of  

 humanity are you on rigby chap?.............


----------



## Rigby5

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
> Though I used to go pray there before dawn...
> 
> I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
> People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.
> 
> Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You think you can bribe people to ignore those illegal forced from their homes, with minimum wage server jobs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you read his post or did you just look at the picture?  He wrote that the Palestinians in Hebron are WEALTHY, with villas and sports cars.  The picture of a KFC store is there to show you that there are modern stores with American brands on every corner, with all the amenities that they might ever need.  80% of Hebron is under Palestinian control, in case you didn't know that.
Click to expand...


There were wealthy Muslims in Hebron before the Zionist invasion.
You are trying to imply the Muslims should be grateful to the Zionists, and then show minimum wage jobs.
That is insulting, especially since the point is that Israel has illegally confiscated millions of homes from the rightful Muslim owners.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims never invaded.
> The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
> There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
> It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
> They go back to before 7000 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Muslims never invaded.*
> 
> That's funny.
> 
> Did they ever invade anywhere?
Click to expand...


No, the Arab Muslims were never invaders.
However, after 1150 AD or so, a string of invaders from the Steppes and other places, did take over, massacre Muslims, and pretend to be Muslims, like the Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people originally earned hatred for their invasion of Palestine around 1000 BC, when they massacred Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
> The date of 160 AD is when Jews decided to leave.
> Waiting for the Messiah is only unrealistic if you do not believe you are the Chosen People.
> 
> There is lots of history of Christian hatred of Jews, but none of Arab hatred of Jews.
> If there were, then Jews would not have asked the Arabs to let them back into Palestine, and the Arabs would not have agreed.  It was only later that Zionists started massacring Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientists just disproved a historical event described in the Bible
> 
> Another Goyim Liar.
> Don't like it because the Jewish People feel they have certain Rights to the land? Too bad,
> Muslim Anti Semitism has been around for Centuries,  Your denial doesn't change things
Click to expand...


Liar.
I said that the invading Hebrew massacred the Canaanite women and children in Jericho.
They never wiped out all the Canaanites because there were far too many.
They were the majority even when King David ruled.
And your own link proves not only that the Canaanites where there first, but that they are still there.

And you also failed to show any example of Muslims ever mistreating Jews.
It never happened.
Jews were welcomed to high administrative positions by Muslims, and viziers were usually Jewish.

And it would help if you understood English better.  The word "Semitic" means belonging to an Arab language group.
It does not at all mean Jewish.
Hebrew belongs to an Arab language group, so is Semitic, but many Jews are Ashkenazi, so are not Semitic.
Their native language group is the Germanic Yiddish.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.*
> 
> Especially all the ones with Jewish names, eh?
Click to expand...


There are NO cities or villages with Jewish names.
Jerusalem for example, predated the Hebrew invasion and is not a Jewish name.
It is the other way around, and the Jews got their name from the city.


----------



## Rigby5

member said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*"It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad..."*_
> 
> 
> 
> . . .even the [despicable]
> 
> lowly palestinian terrorist ?
> 
> 
> yes.....yes it does MATTER!  .......these creep terrorists
> 
> - [oooh, my mistake, wrong picture] they're no different than every other *USELESS*, pathetic terrorist group roaming aimlessly around *OUR* planet earth.
> 
> crikey mate!  what side of
> 
> humanity are you on rigby chap?.............
Click to expand...


Whatever side you are not on is the one I will be one.
Obviously when a nation has been invaded and taken over illegally, as the Zionists did to Palestine, then they are freedom fighters, not terrorists.
The difference being their cause is legitimate.
The only terrorist are the Israelis who demolish homes of parents and relatives out of Collective Retribution, which is an illegal war crime.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims never invaded.
> The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
> There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
> It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
> They go back to before 7000 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Muslims never invaded.*
> 
> That's funny.
> 
> Did they ever invade anywhere?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the Arab Muslims were never invaders.
> However, after 1150 AD or so, a string of invaders from the Steppes and other places, did take over, massacre Muslims, and pretend to be Muslims, like the Mongols, Moguls, Moors, Mamelukes, and Turks.
Click to expand...


*No, the Arab Muslims were never invaders.*

Really? Link?


----------



## Shusha

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Especially all the ones with Jewish names, eh?



$10 bucks says he will argue there is no such thing as Jewish names and that they are all really Arab names.


----------



## Shusha

Rigby5 said:


> There are NO cities or villages with Jewish names.
> Jerusalem for example, predated the Hebrew invasion and is not a Jewish name.
> It is the other way around, and the Jews got their name from the city.



Sure enough.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian father and his little daughters pass by an Israeli checkpoint in Ramallah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Tear gas canisters used by Israeli soldiers against Palestinian demonstrators strung together for display outside the home of a Palestinian family in Nabi Saleh village near Ramallah. Photo by Issam Rimawi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An aerial photo of Gaza city and its seaport.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian violinist performs at Gaza City's port. Photo by Ezz Zanoun.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a right but duty,
> because local Jewish population could no longer stand the persecution,
> and called them to help defeat the Muslim occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> The Arabs never treated Jews badly until the Zionst made it clear they wanted to take over, and they started murdering Arabs.
Click to expand...







Never never?
Like there were no Arab pogroms before Zionism?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
> Though I used to go pray there before dawn...
> 
> I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
> People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.
> 
> Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You think you can bribe people to ignore those illegal forced from their homes, with minimum wage server jobs?
Click to expand...


Well You just keep implying things.
What I think is that a guy that owns several stores on the street, and employs his extended family, while riding on a Maybach...

could bribe much more people than an average self employed musician...

You know what I'm talking about?


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And is where many Arabs had their homes illegally confiscated by Israel.
> 
> Tell us what you paid for the place you moved into, and from whom you paid for it?
Click to expand...


Well, let's apply that was true, 
how come You not mention all the homes illegally confiscated by Arabs from Jews?


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One sided ceasefire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No rockets were ever fired towards Israel until after Israel committed some serious crime, but mass murder.
Click to expand...







You might want to rethink that statement?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Today is the first day of AIPAC’s propaganda tour of Israel/Palestine for freshmen members of Congress. Since AIPAC will surely be hiding the brutal reality of Israel’s Occupation from our representatives, we have decided to show them the truth through an alternative digital tour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Gaza government to raze illegal structures*
> 
> GAZA CITY (Ma’an) -- The Gaza government announced Monday that it has given directives to its interior ministry to raze what it has termed illegal structures on public lands and enforce previous orders to arrest those trading the land.
> 
> Head of the ministry's land department Ibrahim Radwan said those in violation of the order had been given a deadline which has now expired and that officers would maintain permanent checkpoints, supported by police, on public lands to prevent "any violation."
> 
> "From now on, those in violation of public land [use] will find no excuse," Radwan said but added that large amounts of public land had been earmarked for agriculture projects in coordination with the ministry of agriculture and for public housing projects.
> 
> *Radwan said in the coming days, the ministry will begin enforcing a "wide-scale campaign" to remove structures erected or built on public lands without permission.*
> 
> Maan News
> 
> Oh so You reserved to name calling, big deal.
> What do You call it when Arabs do the same to themselves?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These clearly were not public lands, and according to the UN, are out of Israeli jurisdiction.
> German banks financed it because the private deeds and titles checked out as legitimate.
> The Israelis were in violation of international law, and are committing war crimes.
Click to expand...


It's interesting that You mention deeds,
the UN has no authority or information because all is kept in the Turkish archives, and every time Arabs threaten with a case and an Ottoman deed, they never proceed to actually present them in court because they know such a precedent will open a whole flood of cases of Jewish property that ended in their hands just recently, not just here, but all over the Arab world.

In the meantime all we have are pictures of stupid old keys from ebay...
Why wouldn't the Arabs demand to open the Ottoman archives?


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because nothing says 'Progressive ideals',
> like teaching Your kid to stab Jews...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Muslims or Arabs hated Jews, then no Jews would have existed by now.
> Jews have existed for thousands of years because the Arabs and Muslims have protected them and treated them well.
> It is only Zionists who have stolen and murdered that had to be punished by the use of force.
Click to expand...







Protected, treated them well, no hate at all...
You might want to rethink that?


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims never invaded.
> The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
> There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
> It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
> They go back to before 7000 BC.
Click to expand...








The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.

Q.Which one of these  Caliphate didn't invade?


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos and stories of Palestinian grandmothers have been trending on Twitter Saturday in support of US lawmaker Rashida Tlaib.
> #MyPalestinianSitty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would anyone believe that a bunch of European immigrant Jews would have a right to take over almost all of Palestine?
> Clearly they do not, and Israel has no right to exist.
> Israel only exists by murder, extortion, and theft.
> Even real Jews are against Zionists, because they know they are supposed to be in atonement instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more,
though I wouldn't put it like that in reference to the Messiah, after all it a principle of faith.
It's just that many figured out great measure of basic Moshe Rabbenu's A"H activity was as a political figure in front of a the world's leading power, that ruled over many peoples and nations...just like the  Christians have until recently, and Arabs still do today.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
Click to expand...







'Legal owners' who keep calling themselves invaders, not knowing what the word even means in the local language. Let alone correctly pronounce the name of the place?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Pro Palestinian liar,  Tell us what Jews are supposed to be in “ atonement “ for and the “ Real Jews” do believe Israel has the Right to exist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Romans beat the Jewish uprising of 160 AD and tore down the 2nd Temple of Solomon, Jewish leadership has to explain how they lost if they were the Chosen People and the Land of Canaan was the Promised Land.
> What was decided is that they were being punished for the sins of arrogance and pride.  In particular, the massacre of Canaanite women and children at Jericho, and rebelling against the Romans without enough planning, weapons, or strategy.
> 
> So  no, if you believe Israel should exist before the coming of the Messiah, then you are not really Jewish.
> Stealing Palestine from the Arab natives is just repeating the sins of arrogance and pride, preventing there from ever being Zion on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try; You bigot. The Jewish people have been facing persecution for over 2000 years; Nothing to do with 160 AD. For the majority of the Jewish people; waiting for the Messiah is unrealistic.
> If anyone should be in atonement it should be the Christians and Arabs for their over 2019 years of hatred
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish people originally earned hatred for their invasion of Palestine around 1000 BC, when they massacred Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
> The date of 160 AD is when Jews decided to leave.
> Waiting for the Messiah is only unrealistic if you do not believe you are the Chosen People.
> 
> There is lots of history of Christian hatred of Jews, but none of Arab hatred of Jews.
> If there were, then Jews would not have asked the Arabs to let them back into Palestine, and the Arabs would not have agreed.  It was only later that Zionists started massacring Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scientists just disproved a historical event described in the Bible
> 
> Another Goyim Liar.
> Don't like it because the Jewish People feel they have certain Rights to the land? Too bad,
> Muslim Anti Semitism has been around for Centuries,  Your denial doesn't change things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> I said that the invading Hebrew massacred the Canaanite women and children in Jericho.
> They never wiped out all the Canaanites because there were far too many.
> They were the majority even when King David ruled.
> And your own link proves not only that the Canaanites where there first, but that they are still there.
> 
> And you also failed to show any example of Muslims ever mistreating Jews.
> It never happened.
> Jews were welcomed to high administrative positions by Muslims, and viziers were usually Jewish.
> 
> And it would help if you understood English better.  The word "Semitic" means belonging to an Arab language group.
> It does not at all mean Jewish.
> Hebrew belongs to an Arab language group, so is Semitic, but many Jews are Ashkenazi, so are not Semitic.
> Their native language group is the Germanic Yiddish.
Click to expand...


Liar.  My link proves it. The Jewish people did not massacre anybody 

Anti Semitic to most people means Anti Jewish.  I didn’t post a link Re; Anti Semitism  among Christians either; yet everyone knows it ‘s true . Don’t like it because Israel exists? Who cares?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli goontards. Lower than whale shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet.....leagues above the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.
Click to expand...












Indeed Arabs didn't build anything but a single city, Ramle, as the Caliphate's capital in the district, and merely renamed the Hebrew names of the villages and cities and their Greek translations to Arabic.

That single city Arabs built, was too built using Jewish force, and later populated with the local Jewish community to make the city strive economically.

Some years before the first Zionist immigration the Ottomans built a Railway through the region using local force, aside from that up until them all the roads were from Roman times and earlier.

The place was neglected.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.*
> 
> Especially all the ones with Jewish names, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NO cities or villages with Jewish names.
> Jerusalem for example, predated the Hebrew invasion and is not a Jewish name.
> It is the other way around, and the Jews got their name from the city.
Click to expand...


Yep, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Simply because the words 'Jew' and 'Jerusalem' sound alike only in English doesn't mean they even come from the same root word. In the local language the two words have only one common letter.
And yet, it just happens that even Arabs themselves call it _'The Jewish Desert_' 



*Sahara Yahudin - The Jewish Desert*

The Judaean Desert or Judean Desert (Hebrew: _Midbar Yehuda_, both _Desert of Judah_ or _Judaean Desert_; Arabic:‎ _Sahara Yahudin_) is a desert in Israel and the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and descends to the Dead Sea. It stretches from the northeastern Negev to the east of Beit El, and is marked by natural terraces with escarpments. It ends in a steep escarpment dropping to the Dead Sea and the Jordan Valley. The Judaean Desert is crossed by numerous wadis from northeast to southeast and has many ravines, most of them deep, from 1,200 feet in the west to 600 feet in the east. The Judaean Desert is an area with a special morphological structure along the east of the Judaean Mountains.




Judaean Desert - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop buying into pathetic propaganda.
> 
> I moved there recently,
> Hebron is actually one of the most luxurious cities in Judea,
> in places even competing with Ramallah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is the area near the Tomb of the Patriarchs?  I haven't been there in quite awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hebron is calm and quiet when not during holidays, magav guards calmly bored at the entrance.
> Though I used to go pray there before dawn...
> 
> I've been sitting with Baruch Marzel and a bullet holed wall of his house behind me... calmly eating waffles. So maybe I'm not the best example, but the city and overall atmosphere is really quiet and calming mundane, nothing happens until someone comes to provoke the police in some valley for a scoop in the news.
> People are wealthy, luxury and sports cars on the roads, more taxi cabs than in Tel-Aviv and modern stores, including American fast food brands.
> 
> Complete opposite of what they show You in the media.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You think you can bribe people to ignore those illegal forced from their homes, with minimum wage server jobs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you read his post or did you just look at the picture?  He wrote that the Palestinians in Hebron are WEALTHY, with villas and sports cars.  The picture of a KFC store is there to show you that there are modern stores with American brands on every corner, with all the amenities that they might ever need.  80% of Hebron is under Palestinian control, in case you didn't know that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were wealthy Muslims in Hebron before the Zionist invasion.
> You are trying to imply the Muslims should be grateful to the Zionists, and then show minimum wage jobs.
> That is insulting, especially since the point is that Israel has illegally confiscated millions of homes from the rightful Muslim owners.
Click to expand...













There were not "millions of Muslim homes" to begin with, 
and most of what You call homes, were mostly mud huts, with rare exceptions of Ottoman feudal bourgeoisie living in all the property stolen by the Caliphate.

It was the most neglected and impoverished district when under the Muslim rule, 
even the Muslim population was scarce, up until the local Jewish community with the help of diaspora started transforming the place and investing huge sums of money that resuscitated the economy of the entire region.






  .


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone imagine Palestinian Grandmothers not believing Israel has the right to exist???  Why is this news??
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering the pre stolen days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 633 A.D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You say so,
> yet the *Palestinian Talmud* was written by local Jewish,
> and not a single Arab word in there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously false.
> There was no written Hebrew script until around 100 BC.
> So it was either written in Aramaic, an Arab language, or was written much latter.
Click to expand...







Does this nonsense have even anything to do with my post??

Obviously false what?
 Aramaic is an "Arab language"?  

You gotta make sense some time soon, I hope.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Probably the most stupid thing I ever heard in my entire life.  She made this statement after requesting a visit to her grandmother, and her request being granted.  She then changed her mind and decided not to visit her grandmother, perhaps for the last time in their lives, after the Israelis called her bluff.  Like an Israeli ambassador said, "Her hatred for Israel is stronger then her supposed love for her grandmother."


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Rigby5 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.
> They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine, which Zionists are stealing to call Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It does not matter whether the Palestinians are good or bad.*
> 
> I agree, they're more stupid than good or bad.
> 
> *They simply are the legal land owners of all of Palestine,*
> 
> Sorry, squatters didn't become owners when the Ottomans were defeated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.
> The Palestinians were the legal owners before and after the Ottoman invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Indeed, virtually all cities and villages predate the Ottoman period.*
> 
> Especially all the ones with Jewish names, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are NO cities or villages with Jewish names.
> Jerusalem for example, predated the Hebrew invasion and is not a Jewish name.
> It is the other way around, and the Jews got their name from the city.
Click to expand...


Btw, most of these cities are in the West Bank, and not in what is called Israel proper, though some are there too.

Bethlehem=House of Bread
Hebron=Friend 
Beth El=House of Gd 
Jericho=Moon
Shechem=Portion
Jerusalem=City of Peace
Beersheba=Seven Wells
Haifa=Seashore, etc.

All in the Hebrew language!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liar,  There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.  After the failed revolt of 160 AD, all Jews left, in order to repent so that the Messiah would come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There was not a single Jew near Jerusalem in 633 AD.*
> 
> So who did the Muslims steal it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.
> The Palestinians are the original natives, who always lived there and never left.
> They are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Amorites, Urites, etc.
> The fact they did not become Muslims until around 700 AD, is not relevant because that did not change their ownership of the land.
> 
> It was the Hebrew invaders around 1000 BC who tried to steal Palestine, and then the Zionists again in 1949.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That is the whole point.
> They did not steal it from anyone.*
> 
> Muslims invaded in 634 and didn't steal anything from anybody?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Muslims never invaded.
> The indigenous Arab Palestinians simply adopted Islam.
> There is more than sufficient proof the current Palestinians are the indigenous natives.
> It clearly is there land, always ways, and they never took it from anyone.
> They go back to before 7000 BC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these  Caliphate didn't invade?
Click to expand...


Also, the Palestinian flag is practically identical with Jordan's flag, once again proving that they are not a distinct or unique people or entity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

19-year-old Babel Qudeih practices her hobby of repairing smartphones at her home in Khan Younis City, the southern Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



So what?  An American in 1777 could say that he owned a pair of shoes older than America.  Besides, King David ruled over Israel 3,000 years ago.  Is her pair of shoes older than that?


----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>








figures you WOULD stick up for this:  "_some people did something_" NUT.

(....good thing she changed her _schmatta_ [more modern looking instead of....degrading looking] - her old one looked like this):










​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN..,   Do you know when Congress will contemplate telling Israelis their Religious Sites are off limits?  When she takes off her Hijab ,,


----------



## member

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN..,   Do you know when Congress will contemplate telling Israelis their Religious Sites are off limits?  When she shows her hair ,,
Click to expand...



she's like sunniM*O*N 

 brainwashed against israel.  as a practicing islam-light muslim.....maybe she should be focusing more on empowering her women brethern who walk around american soil practicing islam HARD...





...to ...come into the ....10th or 13th century.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


>



Bless her & the other 3 of her ilk for guaranteeing Trump's reelection.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*OBLITERATED Maxine Peake and Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Her hair is visible....stone her!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Her hair is visible....stone her!
Click to expand...


She needs to get it straightened


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



“Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Hey, don’t they live in Area C?  Soon to be full Israelis.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Israel took over Jerusalem by force??  Listening to her one would believe they initiated the War which is a lie.    
  Know when a Palestinian lies? When they open their mouth


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
Click to expand...

Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don’t they live in Area C?  Soon to be full Israelis.
Click to expand...

Oslo is dead.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...


*Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent? *

You're right, the Palestinians should all go live in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"My father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, my uncles and great uncles were all born in Jerusalem and lived in the same neighborhood for more than 700 years. Neither Trump nor any US president can erase our history with a stroke of a pen."


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel took over Jerusalem by force??  Listening to her one would believe they initiated the War which is a lie.
> Know when a Palestinian lies? When they open their mouth
Click to expand...


Tinmore, I actually agree with you
  I think her “ claim” is hysterical. Don’t let the facts get in the way.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
Click to expand...



Um. You're kidding, right?!  According to international law, yeah.  Or do you think that the Cherokee Nation can legally put a bomb in your local grocery store?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don’t they live in Area C?  Soon to be full Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is dead.
Click to expand...


Yeah.  That was my point.  They are soon going to be living in Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um. You're kidding, right?!  According to international law, yeah.  Or do you think that the Cherokee Nation can legally put a bomb in your local grocery store?
Click to expand...

Or the US can bulldoze houses.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, don’t they live in Area C?  Soon to be full Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oslo is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah.  That was my point.  They are soon going to be living in Israel.
Click to expand...

No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um. You're kidding, right?!  According to international law, yeah.  Or do you think that the Cherokee Nation can legally put a bomb in your local grocery store?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or the US can bulldoze houses.
Click to expand...


The US DOESN'T bulldoze illegally built structures?  Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Resistance” played out against innocent people is a war crime and morally repugnant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can illegal settlers living on stolen land be considered innocent?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Um. You're kidding, right?!  According to international law, yeah.  Or do you think that the Cherokee Nation can legally put a bomb in your local grocery store?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or the US can bulldoze houses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US DOESN'T bulldoze illegally built structures?  Link?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I don't remember ever seeing it happen.

Link?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.



Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.  

There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
Click to expand...

Acquiring territory by force is illegal.

Annexing occupied territory is illegal.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
Click to expand...


(You are incorrect about both of those things.  We've been over that ad nauseum.)

But how is that working out for the Arab Palestinians so far?  How do you think it will magically work out for them in the future?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (You are incorrect about both of those things.  We've been over that ad nauseum.)
> 
> But how is that working out for the Arab Palestinians so far?  How do you think it will magically work out for them in the future?
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
Click to expand...


*Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*

Sounds serious!

Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (You are incorrect about both of those things.  We've been over that ad nauseum.)
> 
> But how is that working out for the Arab Palestinians so far?  How do you think it will magically work out for them in the future?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
Click to expand...


Oh, seriously?

Links to what?  What do the Arab Palestinians think is going to happen in the future if they keep claiming all of the territory as "occupied"?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



   I agree; No one can be at Peace Unless He Has His Freedom

"*Free Palestine*" or as it's being chanted in full during every Jihadi rally: "from the River the Sea, *Palestine* will be *Free*"[1] - is the wish of *Palestinian* Arabs and their supporters to transform the area between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, another Arab state (number 23) by eliminating the only Jewish ...

   And that includes the Jewish People...….. Keep Posting


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Life in Palestine


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people

  As a result, they will never have a " State"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Right of Return ft. Lamis Deek*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Right of Return ft. Lamis Deek*



I agree, Muslims should definitely return to Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> (You are incorrect about both of those things.  We've been over that ad nauseum.)
> 
> But how is that working out for the Arab Palestinians so far?  How do you think it will magically work out for them in the future?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, seriously?
> 
> Links to what?  What do the Arab Palestinians think is going to happen in the future if they keep claiming all of the territory as "occupied"?
Click to expand...


Is the sky blue?
Do you see two fingers being held up?
You can't start seeing that which is not true, even if you wanted to.
There is no question that all of Palestine is now occupied and most of Israel is private personal Arab Muslim property that has been illegally confiscated.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree; No one can be at Peace Unless He Has His Freedom
> 
> "*Free Palestine*" or as it's being chanted in full during every Jihadi rally: "from the River the Sea, *Palestine* will be *Free*"[1] - is the wish of *Palestinian* Arabs and their supporters to transform the area between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, another Arab state (number 23) by eliminating the only Jewish ...
> 
> And that includes the Jewish People...….. Keep Posting
Click to expand...


If Israel had only allowed the Arab Muslims to return to their homes in what had become Israel, then likely there would have been no problem.
But not only did Israel illegally confiscate all that Arab property, but is constantly still illegally confiscating more Arab property.
That not only is illegal, but has to be fought.
What else can you do when homes are continually being illegally confiscated by Israel?

If Israel was afraid that these returning refugees would offset the demographics to an Arab Muslim majority, (which is likely the case), then the appropriate thing to do would have  been to reduce the size of Israel, or so a land swap.
But I don't think Israel was willing to do that even though that was the right thing to do, because they want all of Palestine.
They don't want to do the right thing, but instead want it all.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Arab historian blurts out the truth about the "Palestinian" people
> 
> As a result, they will never have a " State"



That is just a lie.
Of course the Palestinians actually are the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Philistines, Urites, Amorites, Nabatians, Akkadians, etc.
But that is irrelevant.
A nation state almost always groups together a number of diverse groups.
Look at the UK, Russia, etc., and you will see lots of different historical groups.
Palestine was a combination, in order to form a more practical union.
There was no one who was from the USA before the USA was created as a nation either.


----------



## Rigby5

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Right of Return ft. Lamis Deek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, Muslims should definitely return to Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians are the natives.
They were there 7000 years before the Hebrew invasion around 1000 BC.
They were there when the Assyrians kicked the Hebrew out.
They were there when the Babylonians kicked the Hebrew out.
They were there when the Romans kicked the Hebrew out.
It is the Hebrew who moved to Saudi Arabia, helping Mohammad defeat the Meccans, and should live in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*1948 and Beyond ft. Sandra Tamari*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Challenging the Narrative ft. Dima Khalidi*

**
**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Sandra Tamari, Adalah Justice Project (AJP), dredges-up issues that are overtaken by events in the last seven decades.  In the first 3 minutes of her presentation, she mixes and mashes two facets of Palestinian Arabs.  The Arab-Israelis and the Arab-Palestinians of the 21st Century are two very distinct sets of people.  Clearly, the Arab-Israeli does not want to fall under either the Gaza or Ramallah regimes.  They do not want the human development or the functional economy associated with the Gaza or Ramallah regimes.  For the most part, the Arab-Israelis are not fighting to stay on their land.  The Jerusalem Government (Israel) is not trying, as a matter of policy, to take any assets away from any of the unique minority subgroups _(there are several)_ of their culture or heritage.
​
Yes, many bring-up the domestic issue of the Unrecognized Bedouin villages (URVs) and Unregistered Rural Communities (URRCs);  The majority of which are in the Negev Region, and there are some in the Galilee Region.  I do not understand it all, but from what I gather, the Jerusalem Government is diligently working to provide the basic services they deserve within the infrastructure that is available.

Israel _(The intended Jewish National Home)_ has a much richer diversity i religions and culture than any of the neighboring states or the Ramallah and Gaza Regimes.  Yes, I agree, their system is not perfect, but (outside of Scandinavia) there are no perfect governments.

•  See the *Full PEW Research Report* at the Link  • ​


P F Tinmore said:


> *1948 and Beyond ft. Sandra Tamari*


*(COMMENT)*

I don't think that people like Sandra Tamari and organizations like the AJP are very useful.  But this is a call for the Israels to make and not the outside influences.  Anyone can sit down and write an essay on all the things that are wrong with Israel.  Having said that, most people could equally right on the weaknesses and failings of the Washington Regime.  What is difficult is sitting down and writing about all the positive aspects of Israel.

.........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



I can see the Semtex under there.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree; No one can be at Peace Unless He Has His Freedom
> 
> "*Free Palestine*" or as it's being chanted in full during every Jihadi rally: "from the River the Sea, *Palestine* will be *Free*"[1] - is the wish of *Palestinian* Arabs and their supporters to transform the area between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, another Arab state (number 23) by eliminating the only Jewish ...
> 
> And that includes the Jewish People...….. Keep Posting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Israel had only allowed the Arab Muslims to return to their homes in what had become Israel, then likely there would have been no problem.
> But not only did Israel illegally confiscate all that Arab property, but is constantly still illegally confiscating more Arab property.
> That not only is illegal, but has to be fought.
> What else can you do when homes are continually being illegally confiscated by Israel?
> 
> If Israel was afraid that these returning refugees would offset the demographics to an Arab Muslim majority, (which is likely the case), then the appropriate thing to do would have  been to reduce the size of Israel, or so a land swap.
> But I don't think Israel was willing to do that even though that was the right thing to do, because they want all of Palestine.
> They don't want to do the right thing, but instead want it all.
Click to expand...


Please tell us what more Olmert could have offered?
Tell us why the PLO just recently made the Official Statement that Jews were not to be allowed at the Western Wall .   There will be no response


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
Click to expand...


*Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*

Sounds serious!

Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Toddsterpatriot

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israel should boot those Arab squatters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Journey to Palestine ft. Dr. Marc Lamont Hill*

**
**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
Click to expand...


Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Journey to Palestine ft. Dr. Marc Lamont Hill*
> 
> **
> **




“ From the River to the Sea Palestine will be set free”.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

“Palestine from the river to the sea” was a slogan of the Palestine Liberation Organization beginning with its founding in 1964, claiming a Palestinian state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea and rejecting control by Israel of any land in the region, including areas controlled by Israel prior to 1967. It later became a popular political slogan used by Palestinians who reject compromise with Israel, including the terror group Hamas, which calls for the destruction of Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
Click to expand...


More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.


----------



## member

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
Click to expand...





*"More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it."*











at least you and *'her'* get along now for the most part ...and you both *have to have good* ....





*SECURITY*....​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

member said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> 
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least you and *'her'* get along now for the most part ...and you both *have to have good* ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SECURITY*....​
Click to expand...







Jordanian Front


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
Even Israel admits they started the 67 war with a sneak attack on the Egyptian air force.
Nor is acquiring territory from anyone through the use of force, legal.


----------



## Rigby5

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
At the beginning of the 67 war, Jordan was in possession of all of Jerusalem.
Jordan did not bombard its own possession.
It was Israel that attacked Jerusalem and illegal captured it from Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Burning Wheels: Palestinian women racing towards freedom*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> 
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> At the beginning of the 67 war, Jordan was in possession of all of Jerusalem.
> Jordan did not bombard its own possession.
> It was Israel that attacked Jerusalem and illegal captured it from Jordan.
Click to expand...


You are the liar. Jordan never had control of all of Jerusalem. The Arabs initiated the war by blocking Israel’s right to International Waters, and the U. N. “ peacekeepers “ actually helping them by deliberately leaving the area prior to that


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Christian woman talk about the Israeli apartheid and Zionist occupation in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Munther Isaac: Palestinian Christian Response to Christian Zionism*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Christian woman talk about the Israeli apartheid and Zionist occupation in Palestine*
> 
> **



Piling tons of nonsense on top of more nonsense out loud,
doesn't make her sound more convincing than a mental patient
repeating an old song while dancing a cha cha..

 Is this the average mental level of the audience targeted for the Arab propaganda?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Well, let's face it in Saudia or any of the neighboring Arab states,
she wouldn't be able to do this.  

Becoming more like Israelis...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Burning Wheels: Palestinian women racing towards freedom*
> 
> **



Rehashing  old Arab propaganda from the previous decade,
or coming to terms with the fact that they own more luxury cars
than You hand in Your entire life?

*"Poor Jihadi Bride" - Mercedes Club*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> * Christian Response to Christian Zionism*



What is Christian Zionism,
a bunch of people who actually read the entire text once in their life?

*Islamic Zionism*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Rigby5 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> 
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> At the beginning of the 67 war, Jordan was in possession of all of Jerusalem.
> Jordan did not bombard its own possession.
> It was Israel that attacked Jerusalem and illegal captured it from Jordan.
Click to expand...


Wrong.  Jordan was in possession of East Jerusalem, which included the walled Old City.  Israel was in possession of the newer West Jerusalem.  Like Berlin, Jerusalem was divided.  The Jordanians bombarded West Jerusalem, which included hospitals.  Israel warned Jordan not to join forces with Nasser of Egypt, but Jordan kept pounding away at West Jerusalem.  Israel then had no choice but to open a second front.  It was Gd's Hidden Hand at work, so that Jerusalem could be reunited.  Many Jewish soldiers lost their lives in hand-to-hand combat, in Jerusalem's narrow alleyways, so that the Holy Places (of all faiths) would not be damaged.  And then came the great announcement by Chief Rabbi Goren, "The Temple Mount is in our hands," and a ram's horn (shofar) was blown.  What a miracle!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More specifically, Jordan bombarded Jerusalem during the 1967 War, after Israel warned her to stay out of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> At the beginning of the 67 war, Jordan was in possession of all of Jerusalem.
> Jordan did not bombard its own possession.
> It was Israel that attacked Jerusalem and illegal captured it from Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  Jordan was in possession of East Jerusalem, which included the walled Old City.  Israel was in possession of the newer West Jerusalem.  Like Berlin, Jerusalem was divided.  The Jordanians bombarded West Jerusalem, which included hospitals.  Israel warned Jordan not to join forces with Nasser of Egypt, but Jordan kept pounding away at West Jerusalem.  Israel then had no choice but to open a second front.  It was Gd's Hidden Hand at work, so that Jerusalem could be reunited.  Many Jewish soldiers lost their lives in hand-to-hand combat, in Jerusalem's narrow alleyways, so that the Holy Places (of all faiths) would not be damaged.  And then came the great announcement by Chief Rabbi Goren, "The Temple Mount is in our hands," and a ram's horn (shofar) was blown.  What a miracle!
Click to expand...


The Moron claims that Jordan had control of all of Jerusalem. Nuff’ said


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they will still be living in occupied Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly why Israel needs to start annexing.  No matter what Israel does -- Arabs will always see the territory as exclusively theirs with no legitimacy for Israel.  It doesn't matter whether Israel is one square mile, a hundred or a ten thousand.  So there is absolutely NO point in Israel continuing to pretend that there is a peace partner or that "land for peace" is a solution to the conflict.
> 
> There can never be a solution to the conflict because of the Arab attitude toward Israel (read: Jews).  So Israel just needs to do what she needs to do to get on with getting on.  And that means annexing whatever she needs to protect her citizens and her State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Acquiring territory by force is illegal.
> 
> Annexing occupied territory is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Acquiring territory by force is illegal.*
> 
> Sounds serious!
> 
> Who did Israel acquire territory from? Any specifics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel acquired territory from Jordan who assisted Arab Countries in initiating the 67 War
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> Even Israel admits they started the 67 war with a sneak attack on the Egyptian air force.
> Nor is acquiring territory from anyone through the use of force, legal.
Click to expand...


*Nor is acquiring territory from anyone through the use of force, legal. *

Who did they acquire territory from? Be specific.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A elderly Palestinian man argues with an Israeli soldier during a protest in Ramallah against water theft by Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian children having fun during Eid in Ramallah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Yasmin (Jasmine) neighborhood in the Old City of Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

You can't defeat a people who look through the barrel of their oppressor's gun and see freedom.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces beat a Palestinian worshiper at al-Aqsa Mosque on the first day of Eid al-Adha.


----------



## P F Tinmore

During a protest in Brighton


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces assault a Palestinian youth in an attempt to arrest him following Eid prayer at al-Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian worshipers of all ages rally at al-Aqsa Mosque to prevent Israeli settlers from breaking into the holy site on the first day of Eid al-Adha.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian worshipers of all ages rally at al-Aqsa Mosque to prevent Israeli settlers from breaking into the holy site on the first day of Eid al-Adha.



Which is Under Israeli control. They have no right to be there


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces beat a Palestinian worshiper at al-Aqsa Mosque on the first day of Eid al-Adha.




so....they just went up to him 

 and started beating him up? why do you leave out the back-story?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib Full Interview | One Detroit Clip*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tom Gross, Ali Abunimah, Debra Shushan on Bahrain Trump peace plan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Doc World | Humanity on the Move | Susan Akram Interview*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Water has been at a crisis level portions of both the West Bank and Gaza Strip for decades.  Water supply issues have taken a backseat to other political considerations and the hostile tension projected by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments in the territories.

What is often overlooked by the Arab Palestinian complainers is that seven water reservoirs constructed
in Gaza and West Bank communities since 2013.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

If the funding, misused by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments, scwandered on agendas that are detrimental to peace, were redirected towards the water and sewer situation in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, there could be a 21st Century system in place today.


​
Israel needs to consider the "Great Desalinazation Project."  It could be as culturally important as one of the "Great Wonders of the World;" actively helping people.


........
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mother's day in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Water has been at a crisis level portions of both the West Bank and Gaza Strip for decades.  Water supply issues have taken a backseat to other political considerations and the hostile tension projected by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments in the territories.
> 
> What is often overlooked by the Arab Palestinian complainers is that seven water reservoirs constructed
> in Gaza and West Bank communities since 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 282177
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the funding, misused by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments, scwandered on agendas that are detrimental to peace, were redirected towards the water and sewer situation in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, there could be a 21st Century system in place today.
> 
> 
> View attachment 282182​
> Israel needs to consider the "Great Desalinazation Project."  It could be as culturally important as one of the "Great Wonders of the World;" actively helping people.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 282176
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Where does Israel bulldozing cisterns fit into this BS?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem’s Dome of the Rock viewed from the West Bank village of al-Ezariya. Photo by Ahmad Al-Baz.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian child holds a sheep at a livestock market in Gaza ahead of Eid al-Adha.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Water has been at a crisis level portions of both the West Bank and Gaza Strip for decades.  Water supply issues have taken a backseat to other political considerations and the hostile tension projected by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments in the territories.
> 
> What is often overlooked by the Arab Palestinian complainers is that seven water reservoirs constructed
> in Gaza and West Bank communities since 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 282177
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the funding, misused by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments, scwandered on agendas that are detrimental to peace, were redirected towards the water and sewer situation in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, there could be a 21st Century system in place today.
> 
> 
> View attachment 282182​
> Israel needs to consider the "Great Desalinazation Project."  It could be as culturally important as one of the "Great Wonders of the World;" actively helping people.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 282176
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


You can't build terror tunnels and commit war crimes with rockets fired at civilians.....and provide clean water too.

Allah has spoken.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian children with their Eid al-Adha toys in al-Maghazi refugee camp in the middle Gaza Strip area.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Water has been at a crisis level portions of both the West Bank and Gaza Strip for decades.  Water supply issues have taken a backseat to other political considerations and the hostile tension projected by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments in the territories.
> 
> What is often overlooked by the Arab Palestinian complainers is that seven water reservoirs constructed
> in Gaza and West Bank communities since 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 282177
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If the funding, misused by the Ramallah/Gaza Governments, scwandered on agendas that are detrimental to peace, were redirected towards the water and sewer situation in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, there could be a 21st Century system in place today.
> 
> 
> View attachment 282182​
> Israel needs to consider the "Great Desalinazation Project."  It could be as culturally important as one of the "Great Wonders of the World;" actively helping people.
> 
> 
> ........View attachment 282176
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does Israel bulldozing cisterns fit into this BS?
Click to expand...


In the same place where pirate water cisterns built by uneducated squatters,
cause pollution to the whole natural aquifer system.

What happens if You dig a well in the Central Park?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Indeed many ask the same question,
how can Caliphate invaders be victims?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed many ask the same question,
> how can Caliphate invaders be victims?
Click to expand...


The dead, gay Egyptian guy said they were a country!!!!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian child holds a sheep at a livestock market in Gaza ahead of Eid al-Adha.


 





*A boy sweeps the blood while cutting meat from a slaughtered cow,
on the first day of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha*

Q. You do realize the boy is happy knowing, that the sheep is about to be slaughtered?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  Toddsterpatriot, et al,

I was just watching a video that P F Tinmore contributed today that the panel noted the question as to whether The West Bank and the Gaza Strip constitute a "State."  One of the panelists in the video → suggested that there are legal scholars with opinions both for and against the notion that the Ramallah/Gaza Governments actually constitute a functioning Government as one, or individually as two, or neither are sovereign because both claim to be the legitimate government in power. And then the other side of the coin suggests that neither have to sovereign control.



Toddsterpatriot said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed many ask the same question,
> how can Caliphate invaders be victims?
> 
> 
> 
> The dead, gay Egyptian guy said they were a country!!!!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

As a consequence of the Hashemite Kingdom's abandonment of the West Bank, and their withdrawal across the River, that left the territory to whoever maintained effective controlled of the territory...  That was Israel.  The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) had not yet declared independence and still have not gained effective control over anything other than Area "A".  And if the PLO withdraws from the Oslo Accords THEN what?  I don't think the Chairman of the PLO (Mahmoud Abbas) has thought this through...
The Oslo Accords were between Israel and the PLO and → NOT Israel and the State of Palestine or → the Palestinian Authority.  The PLO was not sovereign before the Accords.  If the Accords go away, The PLO has no sovereignty to be recognized as a State.
........ 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

*












Gaza Strip: Military parade of al-Quds Brigades, 
Islamic Jihad's military wing*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girls train at the Stars Academy in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Fruit sellers in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman holds a tray of miniature cacti at a nursery in Jabalia in the northern Gaza Strip. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian fields in Tubas, north of the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza port


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians attend an art exhibition organized by the General Union of Cultural Centers in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud al-Hindi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

* Sami Abu Shehadeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian protester during the Great March of Return protests in Khan Younis, southern Gaza Strip. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Susan Abulhawa PennBDS Opening Keynote*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Dabkeh during Traditional Dress Day Celebration in Gaza City


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girls take part in Traditional Dress Day celebration in Gaza City


----------



## P F Tinmore

Modern Art Exhibition in Gaza City.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian girls take part in Traditional Dress Day celebration in Gaza City


Same dresses and clothing as in 22 other Arab countries.  Just as in same food, culture, language, music, etc.  But Israel is unique in all of these things.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*
> 
> **


M


P F Tinmore said:


> Modern Art Exhibition in Gaza City.





P F Tinmore said:


> *Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*
> 
> **



YAWN...,,,  No Israelis in a Palestinian State. Keep posting!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah on launch of Trump's "Deal of the Century" economic plan*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrate Traditional Dress Day


----------



## P F Tinmore

13 months later, Palestinian journalist Lama Khater is free at last to give all the kisses and the hugs in the world to her little kid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian scholar says Gaza violence can’t be viewed in isolation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **



Ironic,
she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
and laughed about 9-11.

Now attempt to play the victims drama.
PATHETIC.


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> WOW, the sole source in most of these stories is The Palestinian Information Center (PIC).  It openly admits that "the PIC does not lay any claim to neutrality for it blatantly sides with the oppressed Palestinian people."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> 
> NABLUS, (PIC)
> 
> A group of Israeli settlers on Sunday attacked Palestinian farmers in Deir Sharaf village, west of Nablus City, and stole a large amount of olives
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I cannot find a single source on this information other than the PIC.  I even did a search in the al-Jazeera Archive _(admittedly only for 2019)_, and still cannot find anything that corroborates the story.
> 
> View attachment 281917
> View attachment 281919​Now there are, as you can see, a couple stories that comes-up that date back well over a decade.  It is certainly not news.
> 
> Maybe you can point to a story that originates other than PIC.
> 
> ........View attachment 281916
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


We're talking about poster who goes into tirades about the bias of posters who post articles from Israeli media, for being merely Israeli media - several posts after he himself posts from Israeli media when it fits his agenda.

And the "Palestinian Information Center" that is located in Australia, and regularly get caught reporting dubious stories that cannot be confirmed in any other sources.

Here's an example of what rubbish he buys into while considering it a "reliable source",
and the kind of pathetic garbage they push:






*They simply lie knowingly.*


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> WOW, the sole source in most of these stories is The Palestinian Information Center (PIC).  It openly admits that "the PIC does not lay any claim to neutrality for it blatantly sides with the oppressed Palestinian people."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> 
> NABLUS, (PIC)
> 
> A group of Israeli settlers on Sunday attacked Palestinian farmers in Deir Sharaf village, west of Nablus City, and stole a large amount of olives
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I cannot find a single source on this information other than the PIC.  I even did a search in the al-Jazeera Archive _(admittedly only for 2019)_, and still cannot find anything that corroborates the story.
> 
> View attachment 281917
> View attachment 281919​Now there are, as you can see, a couple stories that comes-up that date back well over a decade.  It is certainly not news.
> 
> Maybe you can point to a story that originates other than PIC.
> 
> ........View attachment 281916
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're talking about poster who goes into tirades about the bias of posters who post articles from Israeli media, for being merely Israeli media - several posts after he himself posts from Israeli media when it fits his agenda.
> 
> And the "Palestinian Information Center" that is located in Australia, and regularly get caught reporting dubious stories that cannot be confirmed in any other sources.
> 
> Here's an example of what rubbish he buys into while considering it a "reliable source",
> and the kind of pathetic garbage they push:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They simply lie knowingly.*
Click to expand...


I don't see the problem with quoting the Israeli media. About Israel.

I would probably quote the British media when referring to happenings in the UK.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic,
> she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
> and laughed about 9-11.
> 
> Now attempt to play the victims drama.
> PATHETIC.
Click to expand...

They did not laugh about 911 liar.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> WOW, the sole source in most of these stories is The Palestinian Information Center (PIC).  It openly admits that "the PIC does not lay any claim to neutrality for it blatantly sides with the oppressed Palestinian people."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> 
> NABLUS, (PIC)
> 
> A group of Israeli settlers on Sunday attacked Palestinian farmers in Deir Sharaf village, west of Nablus City, and stole a large amount of olives
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli settlers steal olive harvest in Nablus
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I cannot find a single source on this information other than the PIC.  I even did a search in the al-Jazeera Archive _(admittedly only for 2019)_, and still cannot find anything that corroborates the story.
> 
> View attachment 281917
> View attachment 281919​Now there are, as you can see, a couple stories that comes-up that date back well over a decade.  It is certainly not news.
> 
> Maybe you can point to a story that originates other than PIC.
> 
> ........View attachment 281916
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're talking about poster who goes into tirades about the bias of posters who post articles from Israeli media, for being merely Israeli media - several posts after he himself posts from Israeli media when it fits his agenda.
> 
> And the "Palestinian Information Center" that is located in Australia, and regularly get caught reporting dubious stories that cannot be confirmed in any other sources.
> 
> Here's an example of what rubbish he buys into while considering it a "reliable source",
> and the kind of pathetic garbage they push:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They simply lie knowingly.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see the problem with quoting the Israeli media. About Israel.
> 
> I would probably quote the British media when referring to happenings in the UK.
Click to expand...


*What Pallywood media shows You:*






*Versus reality:





*


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian scholar says Gaza violence can’t be viewed in isolation*
> 
> **


He is right to the extent that none of this happens in a vacuum but as a result a long history of events (that does not justify the violence).


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians celebrate Traditional Dress Day


Gorgeous


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic,
> she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
> and laughed about 9-11.
> 
> Now attempt to play the victims drama.
> PATHETIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not laugh about 911 liar.
Click to expand...


_



_

Sure, much as they didn't_ "have warm feelings about the Holocaust"...
_


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic,
> she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
> and laughed about 9-11.
> 
> Now attempt to play the victims drama.
> PATHETIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not laugh about 911 liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Sure, much as they didn't_ "have warm feelings about the Holocaust"..._
Click to expand...

Pardon me but I don’t see what this has to do with Tlaib (and others) and your false claim they laughed at 911.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **






Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser

   Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard


----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


>



   You have to understand; the Blow-Hard sees nothing wrong with it


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
Click to expand...

What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
Click to expand...



  You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it

  This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen

Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.


Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.


----------



## Coyote

When yo


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
Click to expand...

When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.

You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic,
> she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
> and laughed about 9-11.
> 
> Now attempt to play the victims drama.
> PATHETIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not laugh about 911 liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Sure, much as they didn't_ "have warm feelings about the Holocaust"..._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pardon me but I don’t see what this has to do with Tlaib (and others) and your false claim they laughed at 911.
Click to expand...











Look away nothing to see, just _"some people doing something"_...

Neo-Nazi protestors in Germany call for Palestinian help against Israel


----------



## rylah

*Palestinians launch a SWASTIKA kite on Hitler's birthday during protests on the Israeli border, as female demonstrators begin the 'Women's March of Gaza'*

Palestinian protesters have raised a swastika emblazoned kite near the Israeli border during a violent protest on Adolf Hitler's birthday.

The turbulent demonstration has seen Palestinian women increasingly involved - and standing in front of men because they are less likely to be shot by snipers. 

Deadly protests have taken place at the flash point every Friday over the last month - and this week's has been labelled the 'Women's March of Gaza'.

It comes after large numbers of women and girls - on a scale never seen before - started to take active roles in the demonstrations, which are set to culminate on May 12. 

One Palestinian woman, who joined demonstrators on April 13, Taghreed al-Barawi, claimed: 'Women are less likely to be shot at.'

Today, thousands joined renewed protests along the border with two shot dead by Israeli troops and dozens more injured.










Palestinians launch a SWASTIKA kite on Hitler's birthday | Daily Mail Online

Because nothing says liberal-progressive values
like _"some people doing something"..._


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironic,
> she and her folks literally called for Jihad on Trump and the WH,
> and laughed about 9-11.
> 
> Now attempt to play the victims drama.
> PATHETIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not laugh about 911 liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Sure, much as they didn't_ "have warm feelings about the Holocaust"..._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pardon me but I don’t see what this has to do with Tlaib (and others) and your false claim they laughed at 911.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look away nothing to see, just _"some people doing something"_...
> 
> Neo-Nazi protestors in Germany call for Palestinian help against Israel
Click to expand...

Thank you for showing us a clear example of the dishonesty of removing all context from a quote.  I am sure you have seen that done before but that doesn’t seem to stop you from using the same technique.


----------



## rylah

Some people doing something...


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*"With a gun in one hand and a child in another..."*
...some people just doing something


----------



## Coyote

And she is a woman!  Hooray for Palestinian women 

The Palestinian entrepreneur bringing power to Gaza

When Palestinian entrepreneur Majd Mashharawi left Gaza for the first time in 2017, she counted herself lucky to be among a small minority able to get away from a place described by its residents as the world’s largest open-air prison.

But during her visit to Japan, what most caught her eye were the lights in the streets. The Palestinian enclave she comes from is notorious for its power cuts. Mashharawi, 25, decided to do something about the problem on her return to Gaza.

Her solution was to launch SunBox, a company that aims to create access to energy by providing, among other things, affordable, off-grid solar kits to families.


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian women prefer wounded terrorists with a lifetime PA salary, over jobless university grads*

Hooray to Jihadi brides and their women!


----------



## rylah

*Son's death was "best day of my life," says Palestinian mother*

Two interviews with mothers of Martyrs expressing their joy over the Martyrdom of their respective sons, one broadcast on the Hamas website, and the other on Arab News Network TV. In the first interview with Um Nidal, she says that today is the best day of her life as her son becomes a Martyr, and if she had 100 children like her son, she would offer them to Allah as well. She states that while there is nothing more precious than children, for the sake of Allah, what is precious becomes cheap. 

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> When yo
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
Click to expand...


I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
 How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
 Let’s talk about Hunter Biden where he received 50,000 dollars a month when he was in the Ukraine


----------



## Coyote

And of course some people hate Palestinians so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them 

Hell.  It might mean seeing them as PEOPLE.


----------



## rylah




----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> When yo
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib talks about relentless attacks from President Trump*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
Click to expand...


I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.

Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.  

I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> And of course some people hate Palestinians so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them
> 
> Hell.  It might mean seeing them as PEOPLE.



And of course some people hate the Israelis so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


>


I get that you hate Muslims.


----------



## rylah

*MOTHER OF A STABBER: YOU ARE THE PRIDE OF ISLAM*
The mother of Muhammad Said Muhammad Ali is seen praising her 19-year-old son for his “heroic” act.

Mother of terrorist Muhammad Sa’id Ali: I’m the mother of heroic Martyr Muhammad Sa’id Muhammad Ali (i.e., terrorist, wounded 3). Muhammad Sa’id… 19, who ascended [to Heaven]… at the Damascus Gate, while carrying out a stabbing operation in "occupied" Jerusalem... Martyrdom-death is glory, honor, and pride, and at the same time, it is a difficult farewell for the mother and the members of the Martyr’s household… We received condolences over Muhammad and congratulations because Muhammad achieved Martyrdom-death…


----------



## Coyote

Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK

Entrepreneurship tends to be a profession dominated by men, especially when considering entrepreneurship in the Middle East. However, in Palestine, women are becoming leaders in their startups and communities. 

This November, 20 student entrepreneurs in the Palestinian Territories began an intensive three-day “business bootcamp” to help them accelerate their startup ideas. The programme, launched by the SANAD Fund for MSME (SANAD) and SPARK, culminated in a pitching event for the students to present their business models to a panel of representatives from industry and finance...

Nancy AlZaghal from Palestine Polytechnic University had developed a unique business adapted to the Palestinian context that uses hydroponic systems‏ to farm plants. Using this strategy she will save vast quantities of water, produce large quantities of good crops in a short period of time, without the need for large swathes of land. Nayrouz Najen Aldden from Birzeit University became a winner for her business idea: Pal Care, a medical and home nursing health service including rentable medical equipment for home rehabilitation. Amal Hamed, also from Birzeit University, won for her mobile app and medical center for diagnosing and treating speech disorders among children between 1-5 years old. Nur ElHuda Abdallah’s winning business idea , ‘AIon’ is a customized fashion design studio and self-custom fashion web platform. Finally, Layla Hamouri, a student at Palestine Polytechnic University, had conceptulaised her business,  ‘Injez’, a mobile app andwebsite that offers university students services to  reach their desired tutorial links for assignments and projects.


----------



## rylah

*Mother of terrorist murderer: “I made sounds of joy when the child died as a Martyr”*

Ghadir Abu Laila, mother of murderer Omar Abu Laila: “Even if they [Israel] bring me 100 [home] demolition notifications, let them demolish. Since [my] precious one has gone, I don’t care about the home. If they’ll demolish, that’s normal. I’ll make sounds of joy during the demolition, like I made sounds of joy when the child died as a Martyr.” [Official PA TV, Palestine This Morning, March 27, 2019]


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK
> 
> View attachment 284254








"Entrepreneurs"... open a candy delivery business.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> When yo
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rep. Rashida Tlaib is selling 'Impeach the MF' shirts as a campaign fundraiser
> 
> Do you see anything wrong with this?  Of course not.  Typical of a one sided Pro Palestinian blow-hard
> 
> 
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
Click to expand...


Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?

Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
  A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words? 
 Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid


----------



## Coyote

Wh


rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK
> 
> View attachment 284254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs... should open a candy factory.
Click to expand...

y?

They seem to be doing a lot with green tech, IT, etc.  Unlike many other Arab countries Palestinian woman seem to be be well represented.


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> When yo
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you know about US politics?  My only dislike is the use of vulgar language but that appears to be, unfortunately, a generational disrespect for the office (along the lines of a congressman who yelled “you lie” to the president as he was talking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
Click to expand...

I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?

I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).

I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?

Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Wh
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK
> 
> View attachment 284254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs... should open a candy factory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y?
> 
> They seem to be doing a lot with green tech, IT, etc.  Unlike many other Arab countries Palestinian woman seem to be be well represented.
Click to expand...



Indeed unlike most Arab women in the world...
the Pali- Jihadi brides seem to be well represented in_ "green tech" _


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wh
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK
> 
> View attachment 284254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs... should open a candy factory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y?
> 
> They seem to be doing a lot with green tech, IT, etc.  Unlike many other Arab countries Palestinian woman seem to be be well represented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed unlike most Arab women in the world...the Pali- Jihadi brides seem to be well represented in_ "green tech" _
Click to expand...

Thank you for another demonstration of your hate.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wh
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five Palestinian women on the road to entrepreneurship - SPARK
> 
> View attachment 284254
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs... should open a candy factory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y?
> 
> They seem to be doing a lot with green tech, IT, etc.  Unlike many other Arab countries Palestinian woman seem to be be well represented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed unlike most Arab women in the world...the Pali- Jihadi brides seem to be well represented in_ "green tech" _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for another demonstration of your hate.
Click to expand...


Because when moms dress their kids in suicide vests,
it demonstrates how their victims are hateful...

Didn't realize You were such a deeeeep thinker


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate Palestinians so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them
> 
> Hell.  It might mean seeing them as PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate the Israelis so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them.
Click to expand...


I see many positive things about them.

Do you see any positive things about Palestinians?


----------



## rylah




----------



## Coyote

Can Business Links Lead to Peace Between Israelis and Palestinians?

While diplomats are the ones who sign peace deals, Yale’s Ian Shapiro sees businesses as critical to creating the pre-conditions for progress in difficult, high-conflict contexts. He told Yale Insights about the businesses making connections between Israel and the West Bank.

Israel has controlled Palestinian territories, including the West Bank and Gaza, since the Six-Day War in 1967. The roots of the conflict date even further back, to the founding of Israel and to the emergence of the Zionist and Arab nationalist movements in the 19th century. Few have seen hope for a near-term political or diplomatic resolution since the collapse of the peace process of the 1990s. In 2018, the UN’s special rapporteur on human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory described the situation as “the bleakest period yet.” 

*Despite the political impasse, there are businesses making connections between Israelis and Palestinians. Rawabi is a billion-dollar development planned and built by Palestinian in the West Bank and aimed at fostering a tech industry. Collaboration with Israelis is helping Palestinian software engineers get real-world experience through internships as well as funding for startups.*

While no one is claiming any given cross-border effort will deliver peace, the examples of Northern Ireland, South Africa, and Colombia do suggest that the economic development that comes with collaborative commercial activity can free up room for political solutions.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate Palestinians so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them
> 
> Hell.  It might mean seeing them as PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate the Israelis so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see many positive things about them.
> 
> Do you see any positive things about Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Like demanding complete Muslim domination over the entire middle east,
at the expense of all involved minorities?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> When yo
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You HONESTLY  believe that yelling out " You Lie" is comparable to having a Shirt made with the Slogan " IMPEACH THE MOTHER FUCKER??"   Keep telling yourself that ; maybe one day you will actually believe it
> 
> This is the main reason she hates him.  Her " concern" is not just to give the Palestinians a State. She is openly campaigning for the demise of the Jewish State; which is not what Trump believes should happen
> 
> Tlaib and Omar, who had planned to visit Jerusalem and the West Bank on a tour organized by a stridently anti-Israel Palestinian group, are outspoken critics of Israel and supporters of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement against the Jewish state. Tlaib has said she is in favor of a one-state formula to end the Israel-Palestinian conflict that would essentially spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.
> 
> 
> Israel denied entry on Thursday to the two lawmakers — the first two Muslim women ever elected to Congress — under a 2017 law denying entry to supporters of the boycott movement, hours after US President Donald Trump tweeted that the Jewish state would be showing weakness if it gave them permission to come. Israel had granted Omar and Tlaib permission to enter in principle last month.
> 
> 
> 
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
Click to expand...


A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
 You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”

 It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses 
If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> When yo
> When you yell that to the president, yes, it is.
> 
> You over emphasize the importance of Israel in this particular situation.  Tlaib was elected to a liberal constituency and her politics are in line with that.  We are not very tolerant of corruption in our leaders.  At least I hope so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
Click to expand...


Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?

And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.

What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.

You have no understanding of American politics.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate Palestinians so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them
> 
> Hell.  It might mean seeing them as PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course some people hate the Israelis so much they can’t stand to see a single positive thing about them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see many positive things about them.
> 
> Do you see any positive things about Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like demanding complete Muslim domination over the entire middle east,
> at the expense of all involved minorities?
Click to expand...


Like I said.  You see no positives and only portray the negatives.  Not much different than you accuse critics of Israel of doing is it?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
Click to expand...


If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
You'd regard it no differently?

I actually believe You this time.


----------



## Coyote

Ultimately groups are comprised of people.  And in the end many of those people have the same desires.  But you can't see that when you lump them into groups with labels.  All you see then is the labels.  What if you did not  do that and instead focused on what we have in common?  What could be different?  There are certainly many great Palestinian initiatives and examples of entrepreneurism.  Got to give them credit for continuing to try despite the failings of their own leaders and the restrictions imposed by Israel.  I admire it.  And likewise, I admire the many quiet and little advertised examples of entrepeneural cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians.  It's not the politicians that will solve this.  And pardon my crudity but F you who can only demonize one or the other.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
Click to expand...


What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
Click to expand...


So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
and I'm the disgusting one?

After several times being caught here pushing for the Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.

I think the appropriate term is - ENEMY of one's own people.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
Click to expand...


Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.

Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.

You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Ultimately groups are comprised of people.  And in the end many of those people have the same desires.  But you can't see that when you lump them into groups with labels.  All you see then is the labels.  What if you did not  do that and instead focused on what we have in common?  What could be different?  There are certainly many great Palestinian initiatives and examples of entrepreneurism.  Got to give them credit for continuing to try despite the failings of their own leaders and the restrictions imposed by Israel.  I admire it.  And likewise, I admire the many quiet and little advertised examples of entrepeneural cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians.  It's not the politicians that will solve this.  And pardon my crudity but F you who can only demonize one or the other.



Old Jewish proverb: _"Those who pity the wicked, eventually become cruel towards the merciful".




_


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately groups are comprised of people.  And in the end many of those people have the same desires.  But you can't see that when you lump them into groups with labels.  All you see then is the labels.  What if you did not  do that and instead focused on what we have in common?  What could be different?  There are certainly many great Palestinian initiatives and examples of entrepreneurism.  Got to give them credit for continuing to try despite the failings of their own leaders and the restrictions imposed by Israel.  I admire it.  And likewise, I admire the many quiet and little advertised examples of entrepeneural cooperation between Israelis and Palestinians.  It's not the politicians that will solve this.  And pardon my crudity but F you who can only demonize one or the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Those who pity the wicked, eventually become cruel towards the merciful"
> Old Jewish proverb.
Click to expand...


*We hate some persons because we do not know them; and will not know them because we hate them. *

_Charles Caleb Colton_


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
Click to expand...








Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You support 
the Jihadi enemies of America.

No moral degradation here at all...


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
Click to expand...


That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.


----------



## Coyote

two-tour-guides-offer-a-new-way-to-see-holy-land-180972503

*Two Tour Guides—One Israeli, One Palestinian—Offer a New Way to See the Holy Land*
*With conflict raging again in Israel, a fearless initiative reveals a complex reality that few visitors ever experience*

Aziz Abu Sarah created Mejdi Tours to offer just such an experience. He was well aware that most visitors receive just one view: Jewish tourists and many Christian groups focus heavily on Jewish history and rarely visit the West Bank or interact with Palestinians. Palestinian tours, by contrast, focus on difficulties of life under occupation and the Christian pilgrimage sites in Palestinian towns such as Bethlehem, while millennia of Jewish history is ignored.

Aziz, like an archaeologist at one of the country’s celebrated _tels_, or archaeological mounds, had the idea to present visitors with the multiple narratives of the people who share this land, digging down layer by layer and story by story, undaunted by complexity—indeed, reveling in it.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a Jew called for Jihad on Your president and the WH,
> You'd regard it no differently?
> 
> I actually believe You this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
Click to expand...


YOUR COUNTRY???

I'm not the one who is trying to convince people that establishing a Caliphate in their land is justice, while living thousands of miles away and acting like I ride some moral high horse.

You're really are out of Your mind.


----------



## Coyote

Kind of bizarre...a comrade in blood

Israel and Palestine Find Common Ground in Blood Services - ASH Clinical News

The borders between Israelis and Palestinians are among the most formidable in the world. The walls are high, the guards on both sides are well-armed, and the consequences of being caught on the wrong side can be severe. Those are only the physical borders; the emotional borders can be even more heavily fortified. And yet they can be porous when it comes to blood, illustrating that – even in this fractious part of the Middle East – preserving life with blood transcends borders.

Speaking with _ASH Clinical News_, *Asher Moser, MD,* deputy director of blood services at Magen David Adom (MDA), Israel’s Emergency Medical Service, recalled an incident that exemplified cooperation between the Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel. In 2006, a Palestinian man set off a suicide bomb in Israel, and, presumably, didn’t know he had a globoside-deficient P2K phenotype, one of the rarest blood types in the world. MDA arrived on the scene, but the man’s rare blood type posed a problem: His family members and compatible donors were over the border in Palestine. Special arrangements were made with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, a humanitarian organization associated with the International Red Cross, that allowed an MDA phlebotomist team to meet the family members at a border crossing with a mobile blood unit. There, they collected seven units of compatible blood and saved the bomber’s life.

To the rest of the world, it may appear that the Jewish and Arab populations of Israel and the West Bank have few social interactions, but blood services is one area where these groups have established a working relationship. This month, _ASH Clinical News_spoke to people on both sides to offer a revealing look at the collection and provision of blood and blood products in Israel and the Palestinian territories.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
Click to expand...


Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Kind of bizarre...a comrade in blood
> 
> Israel and Palestine Find Common Ground in Blood Services - ASH Clinical News
> 
> The borders between Israelis and Palestinians are among the most formidable in the world. The walls are high, the guards on both sides are well-armed, and the consequences of being caught on the wrong side can be severe. Those are only the physical borders; the emotional borders can be even more heavily fortified. And yet they can be porous when it comes to blood, illustrating that – even in this fractious part of the Middle East – preserving life with blood transcends borders.
> 
> Speaking with _ASH Clinical News_, *Asher Moser, MD,* deputy director of blood services at Magen David Adom (MDA), Israel’s Emergency Medical Service, recalled an incident that exemplified cooperation between the Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel. In 2006, a Palestinian man set off a suicide bomb in Israel, and, presumably, didn’t know he had a globoside-deficient P2K phenotype, one of the rarest blood types in the world. MDA arrived on the scene, but the man’s rare blood type posed a problem: His family members and compatible donors were over the border in Palestine. Special arrangements were made with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, a humanitarian organization associated with the International Red Cross, that allowed an MDA phlebotomist team to meet the family members at a border crossing with a mobile blood unit. There, they collected seven units of compatible blood and saved the bomber’s life.
> 
> To the rest of the world, it may appear that the Jewish and Arab populations of Israel and the West Bank have few social interactions, but blood services is one area where these groups have established a working relationship. This month, _ASH Clinical News_spoke to people on both sides to offer a revealing look at the collection and provision of blood and blood products in Israel and the Palestinian territories.








Yeah sure...Jewish blood is always high on the list of Jihadi demands,
that I'll give You.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your point?  Are you attempting to use an American tragedy to demonize Palestinians?  You are disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince people that establishing a Caliphate in their land is justice, while living thousands of miles away and acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
Click to expand...


And, I might add this demonstrates what a flat out liar you are.  You know damn well I meant Emerites and you know damn well I started a thread on exactly that.  But hey - keep spreading your lies.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince people that establishing a Caliphate in their land is justice, while living thousands of miles away and acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, I might add this demonstrates what a flat out liar you are.  You know damn well I meant Emerites and you know damn well I started a thread on exactly that.  But hey - keep spreading your lies.
Click to expand...


Yet after being pointed to the meaning of the term,
still continued suggesting an establishment a Caliphate.

Your lame taqiyya fools no one.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.



I think you are being horribly unfair to rylah, here.  He is literally pointing out the actions of very specific people (martyrs, their mothers, the government) who are performing very specific actions (killing Jews, praising the killing of Jews, and government payments for killing Jews).  He is not blaming all Arab Palestinians -- he is addressing a very specific behavior and the culture which supports it.  

If you are going to be fair and reasonable, you must admit this is a problem and should be discussed.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So not a single word about Your Pali-Jihadis murdering an American president,
> and I'm the disgusting one?
> 
> After several times being caught pushing for a Caliphate, and abusing those who oppose this barbarity, You're fooling no one with this taqqiyya virtue signaling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
Click to expand...


Sure know full well,
Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.

Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are being horribly unfair to rylah, here.  He is literally pointing out the actions of very specific people (martyrs, their mothers, the government) who are performing very specific actions (killing Jews, praising the killing of Jews, and government payments for killing Jews).  He is not blaming all Arab Palestinians -- he is addressing a very specific behavior and the culture which supports it.
> 
> If you are going to be fair and reasonable, you must admit this is a problem and should be discussed.
Click to expand...


Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?

Since he does not do so, why would I think he doesn't blame all Arab Palestinians?

Shush - has he EVER posted anything positive...or for that matter responded to something positive by posting something that is not negative?

I think that is more telling.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
Click to expand...



Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> One Palestinian woman, who joined demonstrators on April 13, Taghreed al-Barawi, claimed: 'Women are less likely to be shot at.'




So women volunteering to be human shields so that the men can continue to be violent.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Palestinian woman, who joined demonstrators on April 13, Taghreed al-Barawi, claimed: 'Women are less likely to be shot at.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So women volunteering to be human shields so that the men can continue to be violent.
Click to expand...


And what about the positive things...the cooperative things...the brave entrepeneural things?  What about those?  What does Rylah have to say about those?  He only responds with something negative.

Why is THAT more valid than the positive?

Why no demand that Rylah be fair?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to minorities?  Be specific.
Click to expand...


By promoting Muslim domination over the middle east, and specifically Jerusalem.
What result do You imagine would this bring to the involved minorities in the region ?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically by promoting Muslim domination over the middle east, and specifically Jerusalem.
> What result do You imagine would this bring to the minorities involved?
Click to expand...


Please provide some direct quotes to support your lies.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?



Mostly, I think, because he is far more concerned, as a Jew and as an Israeli, with confronting a culture which supports, in ideology and in fact, murdering him and his family. 

Its kinda like asking, "how come no one talks about all the positive actions of white people", when discussing a white supremicist trying to kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur?  The problem is not "all white people".  The problem is those particular white people who kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur.  And, importantly, the culture which exists to support this ideology. 

I've never said anything "nice" about Australians on this board.  Doesn't mean I hate Australians.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Why no demand that Rylah be fair?



Fair?!  What kind of "fair" do you want against people coming for you with knives, and the approval of their mothers, and a pay cheque?  

Why should rylah discuss the benefits of a mutual art installation, while grenades are going off?  Its ridiculous.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
Click to expand...


Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .

Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.

Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.

By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.

Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly, I think, because he is far more concerned, as a Jew and as an Israeli, by confronting a culture which supports, in ideology and in fact, murdering him and his family.
> 
> Its kinda like asking, "how come no one talks about all the positive actions of white people", when discussing a white supremicist trying to kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur?  The problem is not "all white people".  The problem is those particular white people who kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur.  And, importantly, the culture which exists to support this ideology.
> 
> I've never said anything "nice" about Australians on this board.  Doesn't mean I hate Australians.
Click to expand...


I would disagree.  This board is IP...two groups.  Every time I post something positive that the Palestinians do, or a cooperative Palestinian Israeli effort, he immediately counters with something negative.

There are only two groups here:  Israelis and Palestinians.  Not Australians.  Not French.  Not Americans.  Not Pacific Islanders.

When someone consistently and vehemently posts that way without ever acknowledging the positive, what does that say?  And, I'll add this - when said person attacks those who post about the positive, what does that say?

It is a consistent pattern.  If a poster consistently, insistently attacked Israel without ever acknowledging the positives - what would that say to you?  Would it be a fair acknowledgement and concern for how the Palestinians feel about Israeli actions and attitudes for them or would you start to think it's a bit more than that?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly, I think, because he is far more concerned, as a Jew and as an Israeli, by confronting a culture which supports, in ideology and in fact, murdering him and his family.
> 
> Its kinda like asking, "how come no one talks about all the positive actions of white people", when discussing a white supremicist trying to kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur?  The problem is not "all white people".  The problem is those particular white people who kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur.  And, importantly, the culture which exists to support this ideology.
> 
> I've never said anything "nice" about Australians on this board.  Doesn't mean I hate Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.  This board is IP...two groups.  Every time I post something positive that the Palestinians do, or a cooperative Palestinian Israeli effort, he immediately counters with something negative.
> 
> There are only two groups here:  Israelis and Palestinians.  Not Australians.  Not French.  Not Americans.  Not Pacific Islanders.
> 
> When someone consistently and vehemently posts that way without ever acknowledging the positive, what does that say?  And, I'll add this - when said person attacks those who post about the positive, what does that say?
> 
> It is a consistent pattern.  If a poster consistently, insistently attacked Israel without ever acknowledging the positives - what would that say to you?  Would it be a fair acknowledgement and concern for how the Palestinians feel about Israeli actions and attitudes for them or would you start to think it's a bit more than that?
Click to expand...



No one talks about the positives on this board.  You are holding rylah to a ridiculous standard that you hold no one else to.

When have you EVER demanded that anyone on Team Palestine must post positive things about Israel?  When have you EVER claimed that anyone on Team Palestine hates Jews because they don't post anything positive?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Palestinian woman, who joined demonstrators on April 13, Taghreed al-Barawi, claimed: 'Women are less likely to be shot at.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So women volunteering to be human shields so that the men can continue to be violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what about the positive things...the cooperative things...the brave entrepeneural things?  What about those?  What does Rylah have to say about those?  He only responds with something negative.
> 
> Why is THAT more valid than the positive?
> 
> Why no demand that Rylah be fair?
Click to expand...


Wait a sec, I'm not fair because I oppose the eradication of my people and my country, after my people already gave up most of the land initially allotted to them - to their enemies who demand EVERYTHING?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
Click to expand...


I've always acknowledged the right of Jews to be there as one of several indigenous peoples. * Please link to where I've called them foreigners or admit you are a liar.*



> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.



Pretext?

Jerusalem has been controversial and claimed by two groups here - Israel and Palestine - as their capital.  That is reality.  By acknowledging the rights of one you are DENYING the rights of the other.  I maintain that there must be a solution to the conflict that acknowledges the rights of both people's to self determination and somehow Jerusalem must fit into the plan for both.  I have been consistent in this.



> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists from participating in public events.



I support the rights of two native peoples to self determination on a land both have rights to. Is that problematic for you?

Your second claim - what are you talking about?



> By covering for those with "warm feelings about the Holocaust".



Be specific - what are you talking about here?



> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.



Oh.  I'm not dancing around.  I'm calling you out on your lies.

While you're at it - why don't you enlighten us as to your desire for dhimmi status for non-Jews in the greater Israel?  You know, how they are guests that can be expelled at any point regardless of how long their families have lived there.  I see little desire to share the land coming from you.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly, I think, because he is far more concerned, as a Jew and as an Israeli, by confronting a culture which supports, in ideology and in fact, murdering him and his family.
> 
> Its kinda like asking, "how come no one talks about all the positive actions of white people", when discussing a white supremicist trying to kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur?  The problem is not "all white people".  The problem is those particular white people who kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur.  And, importantly, the culture which exists to support this ideology.
> 
> I've never said anything "nice" about Australians on this board.  Doesn't mean I hate Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.  This board is IP...two groups.  Every time I post something positive that the Palestinians do, or a cooperative Palestinian Israeli effort, he immediately counters with something negative.
> 
> There are only two groups here:  Israelis and Palestinians.  Not Australians.  Not French.  Not Americans.  Not Pacific Islanders.
> 
> When someone consistently and vehemently posts that way without ever acknowledging the positive, what does that say?  And, I'll add this - when said person attacks those who post about the positive, what does that say?
> 
> It is a consistent pattern.  If a poster consistently, insistently attacked Israel without ever acknowledging the positives - what would that say to you?  Would it be a fair acknowledgement and concern for how the Palestinians feel about Israeli actions and attitudes for them or would you start to think it's a bit more than that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No one talks about the positives on this board.  You are holding rylah to a ridiculous standard that you hold no one else to.
> 
> When have you EVER demanded that anyone on Team Palestine must post positive things about Israel?  When have you EVER claimed that anyone on Team Palestine hates Jews because they don't post anything positive?
Click to expand...


I have called Team Palestine on some of the negatives they have said on Israel and I have called them on their anti-semitic portrayals.

Have YOU done the same with Team Israel?

And let me point something else out.  Rylah has more than once attacked me on only saying negatives about Israel.  Is that a ridiculous standard?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Palestinian woman, who joined demonstrators on April 13, Taghreed al-Barawi, claimed: 'Women are less likely to be shot at.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So women volunteering to be human shields so that the men can continue to be violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what about the positive things...the cooperative things...the brave entrepeneural things?  What about those?  What does Rylah have to say about those?  He only responds with something negative.
> 
> Why is THAT more valid than the positive?
> 
> Why no demand that Rylah be fair?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait a sec, I'm not fair because I oppose the eradication of my people and my country, after my people already gave up most of the land initially allotted to them - to their enemies who demand EVERYTHING?
Click to expand...


Umh...good point.  Let me amend what I said.  You support the ethnic cleansing of non Jews from greater Israel.  Is that more accurate?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does Rylah never ever point out the positive actions of Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly, I think, because he is far more concerned, as a Jew and as an Israeli, by confronting a culture which supports, in ideology and in fact, murdering him and his family.
> 
> Its kinda like asking, "how come no one talks about all the positive actions of white people", when discussing a white supremicist trying to kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur?  The problem is not "all white people".  The problem is those particular white people who kill people in synagogue on Yom Kippur.  And, importantly, the culture which exists to support this ideology.
> 
> I've never said anything "nice" about Australians on this board.  Doesn't mean I hate Australians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would disagree.  This board is IP...two groups.  Every time I post something positive that the Palestinians do, or a cooperative Palestinian Israeli effort, he immediately counters with something negative.
> 
> There are only two groups here:  Israelis and Palestinians.  Not Australians.  Not French.  Not Americans.  Not Pacific Islanders.
> 
> When someone consistently and vehemently posts that way without ever acknowledging the positive, what does that say?  And, I'll add this - when said person attacks those who post about the positive, what does that say?
> 
> It is a consistent pattern.  If a poster consistently, insistently attacked Israel without ever acknowledging the positives - what would that say to you?  Would it be a fair acknowledgement and concern for how the Palestinians feel about Israeli actions and attitudes for them or would you start to think it's a bit more than that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *No one talks about the positives on this board.  You are holding rylah to a ridiculous standard that you hold no one else to*.
> 
> When have you EVER demanded that anyone on Team Palestine must post positive things about Israel?  When have you EVER claimed that anyone on Team Palestine hates Jews because they don't post anything positive?
Click to expand...


I'm going to add to this.  I DO.  I TALK ABOUT POSITIVES.  Is that such an impossible goal?????


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I have called Team Palestine on some of the negatives they have said on Israel and I have called them on their anti-semitic portrayals.



Have you EVER demanded of someone on Team Palestine that they MUST post positive statements about Israel and Jews as a condition of demonstrating their lack of hatred?  No you have not.  You are holding rylah to a standard you hold no one else.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have called Team Palestine on some of the negatives they have said on Israel and I have called them on their anti-semitic portrayals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you EVER demanded of someone on Team Palestine that they MUST post positive statements about Israel and Jews as a condition of demonstrating their lack of hatred?  No you have not.  You are holding rylah to a standard you hold no one else.
Click to expand...


I haven't.  But then, I also don't demand that anyone on Team Israel post positive posts.

I do however note when it is only negative.  Is that not my right?

And frankly - is it ok then for Rylah to claim I only post negative things about Israel?  What about that standard?  It seems that you are not holding him to the same standard as you are holding me to.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
Click to expand...


Shusha you agree with this.

Why?

Have I taken those positions?

Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?

Have I EVER called them foreigners?

SERIOUSLY?????


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I haven't.  But then, I also don't demand that anyone on Team Israel post positive posts.




Oh come on.  Up thread you claimed that rylah "hates Muslims", and as "proof" you noted that he never made positive posts about the Arab Palestinians.  You are using a standard for him that you apply to no one else.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't.  But then, I also don't demand that anyone on Team Israel post positive posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on.  Up thread you claimed that rylah "hates Muslims", and as "proof" you noted that he never made positive posts about the Arab Palestinians.  You are using a standard for him that you apply to no one else.
Click to expand...


I'm using the same standard he applies to me.  He has already labeled me antisemite.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
Click to expand...



You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't.  But then, I also don't demand that anyone on Team Israel post positive posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on.  Up thread you claimed that rylah "hates Muslims", and as "proof" you noted that he never made positive posts about the Arab Palestinians.  You are using a standard for him that you apply to no one else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.  He has already labeled me antisemite.
Click to expand...



Could you point out where he said that you were an antisemite because you didn't post anything positive about Israel/Jews?  Normally, we look for pretty specific things before labeling people as antisemites.  Imo, you haven't crossed that line yet.  His mileage may different.  (Which would be fair, him being Jewish and Israeli, he'll get some nuance that I don't understand.)


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
Click to expand...


*They call themselves settlers.*

Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.

Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.


AND AGAIN:
Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?

Have I EVER called them foreigners? 

WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????


Shrug.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.



No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
Click to expand...


Yes.  I am.  He has labeled me an antisemite.  Look at his posting history.  It is quite quite clear.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't.  But then, I also don't demand that anyone on Team Israel post positive posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on.  Up thread you claimed that rylah "hates Muslims", and as "proof" you noted that he never made positive posts about the Arab Palestinians.  You are using a standard for him that you apply to no one else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.  He has already labeled me antisemite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Could you point out where he said that you were an antisemite because you didn't post anything positive about Israel/Jews?  Normally, we look for pretty specific things before labeling people as antisemites.  Imo, you haven't crossed that line yet.  His mileage may different.  (Which would be fair, him being Jewish and Israeli, he'll get some nuance that I don't understand.)
Click to expand...


OH.  He is very clear on this.  Look at his posting history in regards to conversations with me.

I am done with him.


----------



## Coyote

I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.

Shrug.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An old man takes part in a protest against home demolition in Sur Baher, Jerusalem.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince You to divide Washington between Russia and China, while acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've always acknowledged the right of Jews to be there as one of several indigenous peoples. * Please link to where I've called them foreigners or admit you are a liar.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretext?
> 
> Jerusalem has been controversial and claimed by two groups here - Israel and Palestine - as their capital.  That is reality.  By acknowledging the rights of one you are DENYING the rights of the other.  I maintain that there must be a solution to the conflict that acknowledges the rights of both people's to self determination and somehow Jerusalem must fit into the plan for both.  I have been consistent in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists from participating in public events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I support the rights of two native peoples to self determination on a land both have rights to. Is that problematic for you?
> 
> Your second claim - what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By covering for those with "warm feelings about the Holocaust".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be specific - what are you talking about here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh.  I'm not dancing around.  I'm calling you out on your lies.
> 
> While you're at it - why don't you enlighten us as to your desire for dhimmi status for non-Jews in the greater Israel?  You know, how they are guests that can be expelled at any point regardless of how long their families have lived there.  I see little desire to share the land coming from you.
Click to expand...

You see only the Jewish capital as controversial, and not say Washington or Madrid.

You suggest exclusive self determination is invalid for Israel, while seeing no problem with that norm (yes it is international norm) regarding any other nation on earth, or specifically the other 22 Arab states.

You recognize the rights of Arabs to Israel, but not of Jews to Jordan.

You recognize the rights of Arabs to Jerusalem, but not of Jews to Gaza and Amman, or the rights of Arabs to Madrid.

You suggest the Arab-Muslim rights to another more but not that of Jews to another country.

You criticize Israel for their treatment of women but not that the banning of feminist Jews by feminists Arabs.

You accuse Jews of ethnic cleansing but not that of the Arabs to participation in Holocaust both in Europe and middle east.

You compare the status of residence with full civil and human rights in Israel , but not the status of residents in European countries, or specifically that of the Jewish dhimmis which provide none of the above under Arab rule in the entire middle east.

You refer to the  Arab long standing presence in Israel, but not that of of the Jews who lived there millenias before the Arab invasion.

You criticize the concept of Jewish domination over 0.001% of the land, and not the exclusive domination of the Arab nation over 99% of the middle east.

To sum it up - You demand Jews compromise on EVERYTHING and provide more than anyone does in the world, after they've already compromised on everything and nothing even close to that from the Arabs.

*There's simply no equivalence here, that You even frame it in such a comparison is discrimination, abuse and double standard.*


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
Click to expand...


Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".

Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".







The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.

Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are talking about here...China and Russia are both problematic....however, I do recall you have total meltdown's if non-Israeli's criticize Israel.  Perhaps you ought to adhere to your own criticisms here.  And your own country if that is truly the way you feel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure know full well,
> Your obsession with dividing Israel for another Arab state or two, at the expense of all minorities involved.
> 
> Why don't You stick to minding own business instead promoting the enemies of a tiny minority and a country thousands of miles away from Your location?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've always acknowledged the right of Jews to be there as one of several indigenous peoples. * Please link to where I've called them foreigners or admit you are a liar.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pretext?
> 
> Jerusalem has been controversial and claimed by two groups here - Israel and Palestine - as their capital.  That is reality.  By acknowledging the rights of one you are DENYING the rights of the other.  I maintain that there must be a solution to the conflict that acknowledges the rights of both people's to self determination and somehow Jerusalem must fit into the plan for both.  I have been consistent in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists from participating in public events.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I support the rights of two native peoples to self determination on a land both have rights to. Is that problematic for you?
> 
> Your second claim - what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By covering for those with "warm feelings about the Holocaust".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Be specific - what are you talking about here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh.  I'm not dancing around.  I'm calling you out on your lies.
> 
> While you're at it - why don't you enlighten us as to your desire for dhimmi status for non-Jews in the greater Israel?  You know, how they are guests that can be expelled at any point regardless of how long their families have lived there.  I see little desire to share the land coming from you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You see only the Jewish capital as controversial, and not say Washington or Madrid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither Washington nor Madrid are claimed by multiple peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suggest exclusive self determination is invalid for Israel, while seeing no problem with that norm (yes it is international norm) regarding any other nation on earth, or specifically the other 22 Arab states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recognize anyone's right to "exclusive" self determination, especially not if it's at the expense of others.  Why should anyone have that exclusive right? Anywhere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You recognize the rights of Arabs to Israel, but not of Jews to Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are wrong.
> 
> Israel, and the Occupied Territories - have native populations that have lived there for centuries.  They include Jews.  They include Arabs.  They both have rights of place.  Unfortunately they both claim the same place.
> 
> Do Jews have rights to Jordan?  Make a case for it, and I will agree they have equal rights.  You have never made a case for it so I have never agreed or disagreed with those rights.  You are again lying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You recognize the rights of Arabs to Jerusalem, but not of Jews to Gaza and Amman, or the rights of Arabs to Madrid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again...you are lying.  I recognize the rights of both Muslims and Jews to Jerusalem.  For Gaza, I think it's a tragedy that Jews were forced out of very old habitations, just as I think it a tragedy that Palestinians were forced out.  They have equal rights in my opinion but solutions are not so easy.
> 
> You bring up Madrid, again.  I don't know the relevance of that and it has never come up in a discussion so I do not know how you think I don't recognize any rights one way or the other.  So...another lie I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suggest the Arab-Muslim rights to another more but not that of Jews to another country.[/quoe]
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by that.  Rights in my opinion, come from habitation in a place.  You can't just say that because one group is "Arab Muslim" they suddenly lose all rights to their homeland because other "Arab Muslims" have another country somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You criticize Israel for their treatment of women but not that the banning of feminist Jews by feminists Arabs.[/quote,]
> 
> I criticize Arab Muslims in certain cultures, for their treatment of women, for child marriages, for not educating girls and for forced marriages.  I criticize anyone for that regardless of religion.  I've started threads on it outside of this forum.  I DO NOT criticize Israel for their treatment of women because Israel is overall very progressive especially in comparison to their neighbors.  I DO criticize certain religious sects about their treatment of women because they are NOT progressive and women do not have the same rights and freedoms within their community as other women in Israel.  You DO understand the difference don't you - between criticizing an entire country and criticizing a sub-set of people within it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You accuse Jews of ethnic cleansing but not that of the Arabs to participation in Holocaust both in Europe and middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I criticized YOU of supporting ethnic cleansing, I criticized Israel of ethnic cleansing in it's wars, and I criticized Arab countries for the forced expulsions of Jews (ethnic cleansing) during that same period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You criticize the Ger Toshav status for non-Jews with full civil and human rights among Jews in their only country, but not the status of Jews dhimmis which provide virtually none of the above under Arab rule virtually in the entire middle east.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's all bad.  Why do you support dhimmi status?  Regardless of what you call it - it is the same.  Two different categories of citizenship, one dependent on the good will of the other.  There is no difference.  In a modern developed world I can not see how it could possibly be supported.  Technically - dhimmi status is pretty much what you describe as "Ger Toshav".  Human nature doesn't behave well when it comes to minority rights and what religious prophets initially make rules on gets badly handled later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You refer to the  Arab long standing presence in Israel, but not that of of the Jews who lived there millenias before the Arab invasion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liar.  I have always maintained that Jews have had an ancient indigenous and continuous presence in that area and that they have a right to be there, to self determination and a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up - You demand Jews compromise on EVERYTHING, after they've already compromised on everything and nothing even close to that from the Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's simply no equivalence here, that You even frame it in such a comparison is discrimination and double standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are projecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
Click to expand...



They refer to themselves as settlers.  Perhaps you should ask them why instead.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  I am.  He has labeled me an antisemite.  Look at his posting history.  It is quite quite clear.
Click to expand...

That's rich...
Do You also accuse rape victims  for reporting on their abusers?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Muslims and Christians pray during a protest in Wadi al-Hummus neighborhood in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher in solidarity with the families whose homes were demolished on Monday.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where have I ever denied rights to Jewish minorities?  Be specific.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
Click to expand...



I wonder.

Is it possible for you to imagine that maybe, just maybe, more than ONE people have rights to the same place and they should co-exhist equally?

EQUALLY?

No dhimmi status for anyone?


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same standard he applies to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you are not.  You are creating a standard which did not previously exist.  And you apply it only to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  I am.  He has labeled me an antisemite.  Look at his posting history.  It is quite quite clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do You also blame rape victims reporting on their abusers?
Click to expand...


Do you?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They refer to themselves as settlers.  Perhaps you should ask them why instead.
Click to expand...


Arabs refer to themselves as invaders,
have You ever discriminated against them for doing so?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Five years ago, Israeli shelling targeted the Siam family in Rafah, southern Gaza, while they were fleeing their home during military assault. Nabil and his son Bader, who was 4 years old then, were the only ones to survive the attack. Nabil lost his wife and four children. He lost his left arm too. Bader lost a kidney due to his injuries.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They refer to themselves as settlers.  Perhaps you should ask them why instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs refer to themselves as invaders,
> have You ever discriminated against them for doing so?
Click to expand...



I try not to discriminate.  I try to recognize that there are multiple people, living in the same territory, with long standing claims and roots and heritage to the same place.

How about you?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They refer to themselves as settlers.  Perhaps you should ask them why instead.
Click to expand...


Arabs call themselves Caliphate invaders, have whole clans taking pride in being descendants of soldiers successfully took part in the expansion of Arab-Muslim domination to several continents, and Israel specifically.

Why do You insist exclusively refer to them  otherwise?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They refer to themselves as settlers.  Perhaps you should ask them why instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs refer to themselves as invaders,
> have You ever discriminated against them for doing so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I try not to discriminate.  I try to recognize that there are multiple people, living in the same territory, with long standing claims and roots and heritage to the same place.
> 
> How about you?
Click to expand...


But You "recognize" that only when dealing with lands where Jews STILL live independently,
no such recognition or demands to lands under Arab control that were totally cleansed of their native Jews.

All of Your demands are completely one sided - clear double standard.
The definition of discrimination.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.
> 
> Is it possible for you to imagine that maybe, just maybe, more than ONE people have rights to the same place and they should co-exhist equally?
> 
> EQUALLY?
> 
> No dhimmi status for anyone?
Click to expand...


You're making complete fool of Yourself, revealing Your true feelings for all to see
demand everything from one side that has already compromised on everything, while expecting nothing from the other. And then when You can't think of an answer just reserve to trolling with 'funnies'.

Banal bigotry as expected.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.



The mods would do well to have a better understanding of what antisemitism is and how it is different from “criticism of Israel”. I haven’t seen anyone on this board criticize Israel in any detailed legitimate way. 

I was involved in another discussion forum before I came to this one, and I assure you it is possible to have deep, nuanced, intelligent conversations on this subject. 

Jews and Israelis have spent nearly a hundred years supporting Arab Palestinian self-determination and as far as I have seen in this board no Jew or Israeli rejects that idea in principle. Though there is concern (correctly) that this is not achievable at the present time. (Other than Jordan). 

Personally, I think most have left it because no one is discussing the conflict and it’s solutions. Every discussion here boils down to whether or not the Jewish people “deserve” what every other people on the planet deserve. We can’t get past that here. There is no one on Team Palestine (you excepted) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state. 

I think that if we could get past that fundamental issue, then Rocco, Sixties, rylah, Hollie, Mindful, ForeverYoung, myself and others could have a real discussion about the actual issues of the conflict. 

But who the hell are we supposed to have those discussions with?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Specifically denying Jews the right to live in Judea by constantly defining them, and only them as foreigners .
> 
> Denying Jews their right to full independence and control of their capital, under the pretext of establishment of another Arab state on their only land in the world.
> 
> Denying the Jewish minority their right to self defense.
> 
> By supporting those who have openly sworn to eradication of Israel and the Jewish minority.
> By covering for those who ban Zionist feminists minority from participating in public events.
> By covering for those with "warm feelings" about the genocide of the Jewish minority.
> 
> Just to name a few, c'mon let's see You not reserve to usual dancing around for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.
> 
> Is it possible for you to imagine that maybe, just maybe, more than ONE people have rights to the same place and they should co-exhist equally?
> 
> EQUALLY?
> 
> No dhimmi status for anyone?
Click to expand...



Equally?  Let’s talk when there is a 20% Jewish minority in Gaza, in PA controlled territory, and in Jordan.


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
Click to expand...

Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?
Click to expand...


My understanding is that she does not.


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My understanding is that she does not.
Click to expand...

Then she is not an exception.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Thinking of Sur Baher families who will have to start life all over again because everything they once had is just plain gone.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians stand on the rubble of a building demolished by Israeli forces in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher. Photo by Abedalrahman Hassan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation barbarity and terror against native Palestinians continue unabated. Israel has to pay for its crimes. End the occupation. End apartheid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

If this is not terrorism, what is it then?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ethnic cleansing in broad daylight. Sur Baher, Jerusalem.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not over emphasizing the importance of Israel. Just commenting on her use of the word MOTHER FUCKER and you equating it with the word “ liar”
> How was Trump corrupt? You mean Hilary and Bill Clinton ( among others ) are honest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
Click to expand...


How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?

Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?

You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics


----------



## P F Tinmore

On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Heartbreaking. Palestinian mother tries to calm down her daughter this morning after they were forced out of their home which was later demolished by the Israeli forces in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.








Still spreading the PIC fakes?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation barbarity and terror against native Palestinians continue unabated. Israel has to pay for its crimes. End the occupation. End apartheid.



The occupation of the West Bank won't end as long as ppl call the city of Haifa occupied.  This is the same reason the BDS movement will never work.  Once the Palestinians will give up their dream of taking over all of Israel, then real solutions to this problem can be fully explored.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.



Why don't You ever post Your fake sources to this pathetic propaganda?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Heartbreaking. Palestinian mother tries to calm down her daughter this morning after they were forced out of their home which was later demolished by the Israeli forces in Jerusalem's village of Sur Baher.








Pallywood shenanigans and compulsive lying...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> If this is not terrorism, what is it then?



*Mother of stabber: “Muhammad was a real man… a butcher, a lion”*

Mother of terrorist Muhammad Sa’id Ali: I’m the mother of heroic Martyr Muhammad Sa’id Muhammad Ali (i.e., terrorist, wounded 3). Muhammad Sa’id… 19, who ascended [to Heaven]… at the Damascus Gate, while carrying out a stabbing operation in "occupied" Jerusalem... Martyrdom-death is glory, honor, and pride, and at the same time, it is a difficult farewell for the mother and the members of the Martyr’s household… We received condolences over Muhammad and congratulations because Muhammad achieved Martyrdom-death…


*Let every Jihadi mother know - if they choose to celebrate the destruction of victims' homes, they don't get to live in theirs.*


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha you agree with this.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Have I taken those positions?
> 
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> SERIOUSLY?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to call them settlers, but means the same.  Shrug.  No Jews in Judea.  And yep, I've seen you stand up for Tlaib and Sarsour.  And yep, denial of right to Jerusalem as a capital. And rights to cultural integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *They call themselves settlers.*
> 
> Jerusalem is claimed by both sides as you know.
> 
> Cultural integrity?  Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> 
> AND AGAIN:
> Have I EVER denied Israel (and Jews) their rights to self defense?
> 
> Have I EVER called them foreigners?
> 
> WHEN have I supported no Jews in Judea????
> 
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only Jews are negatively referred by default as "occupiers" and "settlers".
> 
> Arabs call themselves settlers, and invaders (just not in western media) - they even place it on the flag, and have official settlement plans .But unlike Jews, when referring to Arabs as such it's either considered bigotry or their "natural right".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pan-Arab colors* are black, white, green, and red. Individually, each of the four Pan-Arab colors were intended to represent a certain Arab dynasty, or era.[3] The black was the Abbasid dynastic color; white was the Umayyad dynastic color; green was the Fatimid dynastic color;[4] and red was the Hashemite dynastic color and also represented the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Q.Which one of these Caliphates didn't invade?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.
> 
> Is it possible for you to imagine that maybe, just maybe, more than ONE people have rights to the same place and they should co-exhist equally?
> 
> EQUALLY?
> 
> No dhimmi status for anyone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Equally?  Let’s talk when there is a 20% Jewish minority in Gaza, in PA controlled territory, and in Jordan.
Click to expand...


Shusha, I think it's been beyond clear by now -  there's no one to talk to.
You're giving the benefit of the doubt to the wrong people,
who only see Your good intentions as a sign of weakness.


----------



## Mindful

Hey Tinmore.

I can play that game too.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> On this day five years ago, Israeli warplanes bombed a residential building in Gaza killing Ibrahim Kilani, his wife, and their five children.





Israel responds with airstrikes, killing at least five, after 200 rockets fired from Gaza

Please, Keep Posting


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> Hey Tinmore.
> 
> I can play that game too.


Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, and the best you can do is a 6 minute video.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore.
> 
> I can play that game too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, and the best you can do is a 6 minute video.
Click to expand...


Like I care about your pathetic attempts?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore.
> 
> I can play that game too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel kills Palestinians by the thousands, and the best you can do is a 6 minute video.
Click to expand...


  Can say the same about you Re; your post.  Empty, without any background


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My understanding is that she does not.
Click to expand...

Really?


----------



## P F Tinmore

"I think it was smart that you're wary of using the word "terrorism," and if you talk about the cycle of violence, or "an eye for an eye," you could be perpetuating the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a balanced conflict, instead of a largely unarmed people against the fourth most powerful military in the world." — Rachel Corrie
Rest in power. Never forgotten. — with Chadly Dridi.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mods would do well to have a better understanding of what antisemitism is and how it is different from “criticism of Israel”. I haven’t seen anyone on this board criticize Israel in any detailed legitimate way.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  It isn’t the mods lack of understanding, it is the crap being leveled by those such as Rylah whenever Israel is criticized.  And there HAS been legitimate criticism and discussion (that he labels anti semitic) on such issues as: settlements, inequality, what the new national law means for non Jewish minorities, settler violence on Palestinians and the rights and wrongs of boycotts, Jerusalem.  All topics that should be discussable from both sides without the side opposing Israel being labeled anti Semitic.  That isn’t to say that too often antisemitism doesn’t enter into it it does, as does equally hateful anti-Muslim rhetoric, which largely goes unchallenged.

[quoteI was involved in another discussion forum before I came to this one, and I assure you it is possible to have deep, nuanced, intelligent conversations on this subject.

Jews and Israelis have spent nearly a hundred years supporting Arab Palestinian self-determination and as far as I have seen in this board no Jew or Israeli rejects that idea in principle. Though there is concern (correctly) that this is not achievable at the present time. (Other than Jordan).[/quote]

I think you are sometimes blind to it from some on your side.  Those who call for enforceable expulsions (maybe they are just trolling), those who support a “guest status” citizenship (dhimmi) for non Jews. 



> Personally, I think most have left it because no one is discussing the conflict and it’s solutions. Every discussion here boils down to whether or not the Jewish people “deserve” what every other people on the planet deserve. We can’t get past that here. There is no one on Team Palestine (you excepted) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.



I agree that Team Palestine is lacking, but there are those here on Team Israel that do not support the position that Palestinians have those same rights.  They may not openly say it but their comments and discussion ultimately reveal it.  Much like there are those on Team Palestine who avoid coming right out and saying what they really feel about Jewish rights. Look at Holly or Indeependent for example.  Palestinians already have a state, they should go to Jordan, etc etc. 



> I think that if we could get past that fundamental issue, then Rocco, Sixties, rylah, Hollie, Mindful, ForeverYoung, myself and others could have a real discussion about the actual issues of the conflict.
> 
> But who the hell are we supposed to have those discussions with?



You won’t have those discussions with Mindful and Holly.  Holly’s main contribution is anti Islamic trolling.  She and Mindful are as much a part of the discussion problem as those on the pro Pali side.  Rylah?  We will have to disagree on that.  You, Rocco, FoeverYoung, Sixties are it on Team Israel.


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you don’t understand is this.  Using the word MF is rude and crude but this vulgarity is unfortunately a sign of a generation.  I do not like it but I am seeing it too much.  When Tlaib originally said I think it was a private conversation?  Either way, marketing T-shirt’s with is not what I like to see and I would not buy it.
> 
> Just as bad, in my opinion, is an elected representative yelling at the President “you lie” as he was talking. That to is beyond the pale of acceptable behavior.
> 
> I am almost 60.  I wasn’t raised to accept this kind of behavior.  It shouldn’t be tolerated.  But I think I am outnumbered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
Click to expand...


It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?



> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?



I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.



> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics



You do not have a clue.


----------



## Mindful

There certainly won't be a discussion with me, given the character assassinations.

And the 'criterion' (?) set up for aforementioned "discussions".


----------



## admonit

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this illustrates the problem with IP.  Mods are right.  It's a cess.  It's an echo chamber filled with two factions:  those who support the Palestinians solely because they hate Jews on the one hand, and those who see antisemitism in anyone who criticizes Israel or supports the Palestinian rights to self determination on the other.  *In any dispute - each side firmly supports its own come hell or high water.*  Standards applied to one's own side are not applied to the other.  Is there any value at all in discussion here?  I don't think so.  I think I understand why most have left it.
> 
> Shrug.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My understanding is that she does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?
Click to expand...

Do you accept Israel as a Jewish state?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no one on Team Palestine (*you excepted*) who fundamentally starts with the position that the Jewish people have every right to self-determination, sovereignty and a state.
> 
> 
> 
> Does she accept Israel as a Jewish state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My understanding is that she does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you accept Israel as a Jewish state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.  But I don’t agree with the new National Law.
> 
> I accept it as majority Jewish in culture and ethnicity, and like any state it has the right to define itself.
> 
> When it comes to rights of self determination, I disagree that those rights are limited to only the Jewish people.  I support strong protections of minority rights (which I do for any nation) and full equality for all citizens.  I think Israel is by far the leader in the region for these aspects but the national law is problematic to me.
Click to expand...

When it comes to rights there is one thing that is always missing. According to the rules of state succession, all of the residents of a former state will become citizens of the new state. IOW, all of the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel shall become Israeli citizens.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh... so calling the President a MOTHER FUCKER is “ ok” because it was a “ private conversation?” How does everyone know about it then?
> 
> Making “ excuses” for her Vulgar language because of her “ generation?”   If a young Jewish politician called her that name you wouldn’t be making excuses; you would crucify them
> A elected Representative yelling “ You lie” is just as bad as a elected Representative calling the President MF, laughing about it and making shirts with her foul mouth words?
> Please, go back to drinking your Palestinian Kool Aid
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not have a clue.
Click to expand...


You’re the one. Excuse what she did by defending it as a “ cultural change” for an elected Rep. comparing it to calling the President a liar


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> When it comes to rights there is one thing that is always missing. According to the rules of state succession, all of the residents of a former state will become citizens of the new state. IOW, all of the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel shall become Israeli citizens.



Sure.  And the reason why they didn't is because of the Arab Palestinian desire for their own, separate, self-determination (and hostilities).


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to rights there is one thing that is always missing. According to the rules of state succession, all of the residents of a former state will become citizens of the new state. IOW, all of the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel shall become Israeli citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure.  And the reason why they didn't is because of the Arab Palestinian desire for their own, separate, self-determination (and hostilities).
Click to expand...

You cannot base your citizenship on speculation.


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t care what people say in private conversations.  Do you?
> 
> I did say I think marketing a T-shirt was not appropriate (assuming she was the one who did so).
> 
> I don’t think it has anything to do whether one is Jewish or not so why bring that up?
> 
> Is it ok to yell you lie at tbe President?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not have a clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one. Excuse what she did by defending it as a “ cultural change” for an elected Rep. comparing it to calling the President a liar
Click to expand...

Yelling at the president “you lie” is an absolute breach.  If you don’t see it that way then take off your partisan lenses.  We have a president that engages in rude childish insult fests, elected representatives (more than just Tlaib) who openly use vulgarities and a public that is increasingly tolerant of it and even endorses it as some sort on non-pc “genuineness”. THAT is a cultural change.  You don’t even notice because your focus is on our  Muslim politicians.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> A “ private conversation “ that everyone knows about?
> You say you don’t condone what is written on her T shirts but don’t condemn it the way you condemn the Rep. that yelled “ You lie”
> 
> It has nothing to do with being Jewish; Just using it as an example of your double standard which starts by making excuses
> If a Jewish Rep. did what she did to her you would crucify them for their racism and bigotry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not have a clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one. Excuse what she did by defending it as a “ cultural change” for an elected Rep. comparing it to calling the President a liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yelling at the president “you lie” is an absolute breach.  If you don’t see it that way then take off your partisan lenses.  We have a president that engages in rude childish insult fests, elected representatives (more than just Tlaib) who openly use vulgarities and a public that is increasingly tolerant of it and even endorses it as some sort on non-pc “genuineness”. THAT is a cultural change.  You don’t even notice because your focus is on our  Muslim politicians.
Click to expand...


  This is a " private conversation?"   This isn't an absolute breach?   Keep telling yourself that


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Nebraska Democrat fired for saying he was 'glad' Rep. Scalise was shot - CNNPolitics

    Talk about Trump's insults and big mouth?  This isn't the only time Democrats wished Death on Republicans. 
  Take off your partisan sun glasses


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Private conversations get broken into all the time don't they?
> 
> And yes.  There is a difference.  Yelling something to the presidents face is different then saying something to your child.
> 
> What double standard?  If a Jewish person had done it, I would regard it no differently.
> 
> You have no understanding of American politics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not have a clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one. Excuse what she did by defending it as a “ cultural change” for an elected Rep. comparing it to calling the President a liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yelling at the president “you lie” is an absolute breach.  If you don’t see it that way then take off your partisan lenses.  We have a president that engages in rude childish insult fests, elected representatives (more than just Tlaib) who openly use vulgarities and a public that is increasingly tolerant of it and even endorses it as some sort on non-pc “genuineness”. THAT is a cultural change.  You don’t even notice because your focus is on our  Muslim politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is a " private conversation?"   This isn't an absolute breach?   Keep telling yourself that
Click to expand...

Tlaib was raised in the ghettos of Detroit where that language is not at all unusual.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*From Bethlehem to London: Palestinian children celebrate their identity through dance*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*'A Land for All': An Israeli professor's vision for a solution to the Palestine-Israel conflict*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jaffa activist: A Jewish and democratic state is an oxymoron*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know it was just a “ private conversation?    If a Jewish person made up a shirt like that you would not view it any differently?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was something she said to her child.  That is usually a private conversation. If a Jewish person made up such a shirt it would make no difference.  A person’s religion doesn’t alter the acceotability of the content.  Why do you think it would?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparing what was said to the President to what she did putting it in the same category as saying something to your child ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.  There is or was a generally accepted code of conduct among our elected officials and judicial branch, one of mutual respect in addressing each other, talking and such.  Yelling at the President of the United States as he is addressing a group of senators is not appropriate.  And never has been.  Selling T-shirt’s with MF is also cringeworthy and inappropriate imo.  But unfortunately I think we will see more things like this because what used to be considered good manners and respecting the office have fallen into disrepute.  And this is not a partisan problem Ir a religious problem, it is a cultural change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You”re the one who doesn’t understand American Politics
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do not have a clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one. Excuse what she did by defending it as a “ cultural change” for an elected Rep. comparing it to calling the President a liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yelling at the president “you lie” is an absolute breach.  If you don’t see it that way then take off your partisan lenses.  We have a president that engages in rude childish insult fests, elected representatives (more than just Tlaib) who openly use vulgarities and a public that is increasingly tolerant of it and even endorses it as some sort on non-pc “genuineness”. THAT is a cultural change.  You don’t even notice because your focus is on our  Muslim politicians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is a " private conversation?"   This isn't an absolute breach?   Keep telling yourself that
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tlaib was raised in the ghettos of Detroit where that language is not at all unusual.
Click to expand...


Excuses. If an Israeli politician said that because the President supported a “ One State Solution” which she does which means the Israelis would have virtually no say in any politics or policies you would take a different approach 
     She was raised in the ghetto? She sure took it with her


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Disappearing Palestine with Ash Sarkar and Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Jaffa activist: A Jewish and democratic state is an oxymoron*
> 
> **



YAWN..,,,  No Israelis in Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *'A Land for All': An Israeli professor's vision for a solution to the Palestine-Israel conflict*
> 
> **



Too bad nobody felt that way before 1967


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Disappearing Palestine with Ash Sarkar and Salma Karmi-Ayyoub*
> 
> **




Not this nonsense again.  

The maps that lie.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> One example is Uganda who attempted to implement draconian anti gay laws, and was criticized for it.  International pressure finally watered it down. Pakistan has been pressured on its blasphemy laws.  Myanmar on its set of laws removing citizenship from certain ethnic groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  Seriously?
> 
> So, we are comparing international criticism of Jewish people for declaring a protected, self-determination in their own homeland to:
> 
> 
> death penalty laws for homosexuality
> death penalty laws for blasphemy
> deprivation of citizenship based on race
> 
> And you think I'M being unreasonable?
Click to expand...


She never cared about any equality, just her obsessive slandering of Israel.
The vulgar virtue signaling is only to mask her blatant racism.

The only thing that's been consistent.


----------



## rylah

Guess trolling away with "funnies",
is all that's left when answering inconvenient questions destroys the agenda.

Pathetic.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Guess trolling away with "funnies",
> is all that's left when answering inconvenient questions destroys the agenda.
> 
> Pathetic.


You have said what you are going to say already, several posts above (and given your own share of funnies I might add) Given the caliber of your conversation, I have no more interest in any conversation with you then I would with a rabid dog and I seriously doubt you desire real discourse with me either. Find someone else to troll. 

Good day .


----------



## Coyote

Americans get special rights.  Based on nationality not ethnic status.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess trolling away with "funnies",
> is all that's left when answering inconvenient questions destroys the agenda.
> 
> Pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> You have said what you are going to say already, several posts above (and given your own share of funnies I might add) Given the caliber of your conversation, I have no more interest in any conversation with you then I would with a rabid dog and I seriously doubt you desire real discourse with me either. Find someone else to troll.
> 
> Good day .
Click to expand...


Oh boy, You just can't control it,
instead of actually answering, all You have is reserving to trolling with funnies, and infantile name calling.

Guess those questions are really inconvenient.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘Expect anything’ — the steadfast service of a Gaza paramedic*


For the 78th straight Friday, Nada Shaikh Deeb, 23, collects her first aid kit contents inside her little asbestos-roofed bedroom in Khan Yunis camp in the southern Gaza strip and gets ready to go to the fence.

Nada was injured last January near the fence and still has pain in her leg when she runs. But she has gone out to the fence week after week.

For months, the world took notice of the death of al-Najjar, killed while treating the wounded at the protests against Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip. Even as she was buried, she became a symbol of the Great March of Return.

The bullet that killed Razan was fired by an Israeli sniper into a crowd that included white-coated medics in plain view. A detailed reconstruction, stitched together from hundreds of crowd-sourced videos and photographs, shows that neither the medics nor anyone around them posed any apparent threat of violence to Israeli personnel.

‘Expect anything’ — the steadfast service of a Gaza paramedic – Mondoweiss


----------



## P F Tinmore

Y'all are forgetting that all of this is taking place in Palestine.


----------



## Ropey

UN official finally calls out Hamas’ serial child abuse using kids at Gaza border _*as human cannon fodder.*_







UN rebukes Hamas for planning to risk children's lives Gaza border protes


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you, I understand our history, and the events that took place long ago.
> 
> Unlike you, I do not blame all people for the actions of one.
> 
> You are a jerk.  Nothing more need be said when you attempt to use an American tragedy for your own subversive purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, it's because of "understanding history" that You reserve infantile cursing,
> and support the enemies of Your own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is pretty pathetic, even from you.  Fowl?  As in cock fighting?  Seriously, get a grip.  Own your own hate.  And stop pretending you know more about my country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOUR COUNTRY???
> 
> I'm not the one who is trying to convince people that establishing a Caliphate in their land is justice, while living thousands of miles away and acting like I ride some moral high horse.
> 
> You're really are out of Your mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, I might add this demonstrates what a flat out liar you are.  You know damn well I meant Emerites and you know damn well I started a thread on exactly that.  But hey - keep spreading your lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yet after being pointed to the meaning of the term,
> still continued suggesting an establishment a Caliphate.*
> 
> Your lame taqiyya fools no one.
Click to expand...


Liar.  Link to it or admit you are lying.

Edited to add.  You really are a low grade scumbag of a liar.  I found that discussion, where you corrected me on the terms and I said Emerites was what I meant and we agreed on the concept.  At no time else did I suggest Caliphates be established.

At least your true nature is obvious.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote 

The second point you object to is the right for Jews to come live in Israel.  (That's all "settlement" means, you know).  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Jews should be permitted to come live in Israel.  This law does not restrict anyone.  It just gives consideration to Jews.  And a TON of other countries have this same law.  Why is this problematic for you?


----------



## Mindful




----------



## abu afak

BTW.
**** this thread.
It's a BLOG SPAMMED for Years by PF Tinhead (mostly boobtubes) and permitted by incompetent Mods.
Often with no other posts for days.
Make him Blog/Let it Die. 
Any response is promoting it.

To others:
DO NOT POST HERE.
If you have something to say start a new thread.
Do NOT promote this endless SPAM YOU MORONS.

[We] Jews are supposed 'master of the media,' but you are ALL low IQ CLOWNS who have figured out nothing about tactics that any 3 digit IQer should.,

So a BIG ****** you too, you morons.

`


----------



## Mindful

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> The second point you object to is the right for Jews to come live in Israel.  (That's all "settlement" means, you know).
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not about the Law of Return.
Click to expand...


It's about Jews, and the obsession with them.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote
> 
> Okay.  Let's see if we can re-center this.  The first point you object to is that self-determination in Israel belongs to the Jewish people.
> 
> I argue that this identical to the Slovene constitution which states, specifically, that the right to self-determination in Slovenia rests with the Slovene people.  There is absolutely no provision in the Slovene charter for rights to self-determination for the Italian and Hungarian peoples in Slovenia.  None.  Nada.  Zero.  It is absolutely clear that self-determination rests with the Slovene people.
> 
> Articles 11 and 64 give certain special language and cultural preservation rights to the Italian and Hungarian communities in Slovenia.  There is no right to self-determination embedded here.
> 
> So, I begin to wonder how you understand the term "self-determination" and what you think it means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I object to is it belongs *only* to the Jewish people.  And in the Slovene Constitution, it only is mentioned in the preamble, and states that the right to self determination is fundamental and permanent, but it does state it as singular - unique -limited *only* to the Slovene people.
> 
> 
> What I think self determination means is best defined here:
> 
> UNPO:  Self-determination
> Essentially, the right to self-determination is the right of a people to determine its own destiny. In particular, the principle allows a people to choose its own political status and to determine its own form of economic, cultural and social development. Exercise of this right can result in a variety of different outcomes ranging from political independence through to full integration within a state. The importance lies in the right of choice, so that the outcome of a people's choice should not affect the existence of the right to make a choice. In practice, however, the possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination will often determine the attitude of governments towards the actual claim by a people or nation. Thus, while claims to cultural autonomy may be more readily recognized by states, claims to independence are more likely to be rejected by them. Nevertheless, the right to self-determination is recognized in international law as *a right of process (not of outcome) belonging to peoples and not to states or governments.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, the right to self-determination is recognized in international law as *a right of process (not of outcome) belonging to peoples and not to states or governments.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and the number one excuse to deny Palestinians their universal, inalienable rights is that they never had a state. (Not true BTW, but we have heard that constantly our whole lives.) A people do not need a "state."  A people only need to be the people of the place. Palestine is a place whose international borders were defined by international treaties. Those borders went into effect in 1924. The Palestinians, who have lived there for an untold number of centuries, became citizens of Palestine by international law in 1924 and domestic law in 1925. The Palestinians are the people of the place. Race, religion, color, etc. are irrelevant.
> 
> The French are the people of France who have the right to self determination in France. They are the people of the place.
> 
> The British are the people of Britain who have the right to self determination in Britain. They are the people of the place.
> 
> Do the French have the right to self determination in Britain? No. They are the people from someplace else.
> 
> How can such a simple concept be so confusing?
Click to expand...


Concept? What concept?


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What other nations have nation laws that ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my point.  Sigh.  Many, many of them do.  The exact wording varies.  But there is nothing in Israel's Nation State laws that differs from many, many other State declarations.  Which is WHY I'm saying that you hold Israel to a different standard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which ones have wording that claims that the right to self determination in that nation, a nation of multiple native peoples, is unique to only one of those groups and that the government will support the spread and settlement of that one group?  Right there isn’t that giving a unique set of rights to just that group?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I could probably get preferential Israeli or Russian citizenship. Maybe Lithuania too.
> 
> Also note: Israel was set up/Raison was AS a "National Home for the Jewish People," The 1000/2000 year persecuted Jews.
> It is NOT, and was not meant to be a free for all. Not the USA or Canada, and was NOT meant to be.
> Got it?
> South Sudan recently got independence from the genociding Arabo-Muslim North, and they are and will be separate peoples.
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality law - Wikipedia
> [.....]
> *Provisions to simplify immigration of favored ethnic groups*
> 
> Several countries' nationality laws have special provisions in them to simplify naturalization of *favored ethnic groups. The laws in these countries appear to reflect a desire by governments to guarantee a safe haven to diaspora populations,* particularly those assumed to be living under precarious conditions. A non-exhaustive list of such countries laws follows.
> 
> *Armenia*
> Article 14 of the Constitution of Armenia (1995) provides that "i_ndividuals of Armenian origin shall acquire citizenship of the Republic of Armenia through a simplified procedure."[5] This provision is consistent with the Declaration on Independence of Armenia, issued by the Supreme Soviet of the Republic of Armenia in 1989, which declared at article 4 that "Armenians living abroad are entitled to the citizenship of the Republic of Armenia"._
> 
> *Belarus*
> Citizenship act of the Republic of Belarus (2002) states that permanent residence term requirements may be waived for ethnic Belarusians and descendants of ethnic Belarusians born abroad.
> 
> *Bulgaria*
> According to the Constitution of Bulgaria, Article 25(2): "A person of Bulgarian origin shall acquire Bulgarian citizenship through a facilitated procedure."[6]
> 
> Chapter Two of the _Bulgarian Citizenship Act_ is entitled "Acquisition of Bulgarian Citizenship". The first section of that chapter is entitled "Acquisition of Bulgarian Citizenship by Origin", and provides at article 9 that "[a]ny person ... whose descent from a Bulgarian citizen has been established by way of a court ruling shall be a Bulgarian citizen by origin." Separately, article 15 of the _Act_ provides that "[a]ny person who is not a Bulgarian citizen may acquire Bulgarian citizenship ... if he/she ... is of a Bulgarian origin".
> 
> *China*
> The immigration law of China gives priority to returning Overseas Chinese – ethnic Chinese who were living abroad. As a result of the intersection between this provision and other factors such as the China's poor human-rights record that discourage foreign nationals in general from wanting to move there, practically all immigrants to China are ethnic Chinese, including many whose families lived outside of China for generations.[_citation needed_]
> 
> The Chinese government encourages the return of Overseas Chinese with various incentives not available to others, such as "tax breaks, high salaries and exemptions from the one-child policy if they had two children while living abroad".[7]
> 
> The "rights and interests of returned overseas Chinese" are afforded special protection according to Articles 50 and 89(12) of the Chinese Constitution.[8]
> 
> *Hong Kong*
> Further information: Nationality law of the People's Republic of China § Hong Kong
> In April 2015, the Hong Kong Government announced a pilot scheme named "Admission Scheme for the Second Generation of Chinese Hong Kong Permanent Residents" (ASSG).[9]
> 
> *Croatia*
> The Croatian law on citizenship (_Zakon o hrvatskom državljanstvu_), article 11, defines emigrants (_iseljenik_) and gives them privileges by excluding them from certain conditions imposed on others.
> 
> The Croatian diaspora makes use of this to obtain dual citizenship or to return to Croatia.
> 
> *Czech Republic*
> The Czech Republic grants citizenship, and thus the right of residence, to anyone whose parents are or were Czech citizens (unless the individual is also a citizen of a country that has a treaty with the Czech Republic barring dual citizenship of the Czech Republic and that country).[10] Moreover, people of Czech origin might be granted the right to permanent residence (Czech origin is a reason worth of consideration).[11]
> 
> In 1995, the Czech Republic amended its Citizenship Law to provide the Interior Ministry with the discretion to waive the usual five-year residency requirement for foreigners that had been resettled in the Czech Republic by 31 December 1994. This amendment was aimed particularly at several hundred ethnic Czechs which had been brought by the Czech government from the Ukrainian region of Volhynia, and was of a limited duration.[12]
> 
> The amendment was consistent with what the Czech Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs has identified as "the Czech government's policy principles regarding the resettlement of foreigners of Czech origin living abroad."[13] A private fund, the People In Need Czech TV Foundation, worked with government authorities between 1995 and 2001 to effect this resettlement in the specific instance of Russian and Kazakh citizens of Czech origin, and had resettled approximately 750 such persons as of 2000.[14]
> 
> *Estonia*
> Article 36 (3) of the Constitution of Estonia states that "Every Estonian is entitled to settle in Estonia."[15]
> 
> *Finland*
> The _Finnish Aliens Act_ provides for persons who are of Finnish origin to receive permanent residence. It is usually Ingrian Finns from the former Soviet Union who exercise this right, but American, Canadian or Swedish nationals with Finnish ancestry are eligible.
> 
> The Finnish Directorate of Immigration states on its Returnees webpage[16] that
> 
> _
> 
> Certain aliens, who have Finnish ancestry or otherwise a close connection with Finland, may be granted a residence permit on this basis. No other reason, such as work or study, is required in order to receive the permit.
> 
> Receiving a residence permit depends on the directness and closeness of Finnish ancestry. If the ancestry dates back several generations, a residence permit cannot be granted on this basis.
> 
> People who may be granted a residence permit based on Finnish ancestry or close connections with Finland can be divided into the following three groups:
> former Finnish citizens:[17]
> persons of other Finnish origin. This group includes the persons who have at least one parent or grandparent who has been a native Finnish citizen.[18]
> persons from areas of the former Soviet Union. The group includes persons who have been determined to be of Finnish nationality by Soviet or post-Soviet authorities or who have at least one parent or two grandparents who have been determined to be of Finnish nationality in official documents, e.g., in their internal passports. Also all persons who were transferred between years 1943–1943 to Finland from areas occupied by Germany and were subsequently returned to Soviet Union or who served in the Finnish Defence Forces during the Second World War qualify. To qualify for permanent residence permit, the persons in this group must have a basic knowledge of spoken and written Finnish or Swedish. The knowledge is tested in pre-immigration training and in a subsequent language test. In addition, they must have a pre-arranged permanent residence in Finland, but the labour authorities assist in finding an apartment.[19]
> 
> _
> *Ghana*
> Ghana, in _The Right of Abode_ law, allows for people of African descent to settle in the country.[20]
> 
> *Greece*
> Various phenomena throughout Greek history (the extensive colonization by classical Greek city states, the vast expansion of Greek culture in Hellenistic times, the large dominions at times held by the Greek-speaking Byzantine Empire, and the energetic trading activity by Greeks under the Ottomans) all tended to create Greek communities far beyond the boundaries of modern Greece.
> 
> Recognizing this situation, Greece grants citizenship to broad categories of people of ethnic Greek ancestry who are members of the Greek diaspora, including individuals and families whose ancestors have been resident in diaspora communities outside the modern state of Greece for centuries or millennia.[21]
> 
> "Foreign persons of Greek origin", who neither live in Greece nor hold Greek citizenship nor were necessarily born there, may become Greek citizens by enlisting in Greece's military forces, under article 4 of the _Code of Greek Citizenship_, as amended by the _Acquisition of Greek Nationality by Aliens of Greek Origin Law_ (Law 2130/1993). Anyone wishing to do so must present a number of documents, including "[a]vailable written records ... proving the Greek origin of the interested person and his ancestors."
> 
> *Hungary*
> In 2010, Hungary passed a law granting citizenship and the right of return to descendants of Hungarians living mostly on the former territory of the Hungarian Kingdom and now residing in Hungary's neighbouring countries. Slovakia, which has 500,000 ethnic Magyar citizens (10% of its population) objected vociferously.[22]
> 
> *India*
> A Person of Indian Origin (PIO) is a person living outside of India and without Indian citizenship, but of Indian origin up to four generations removed. It is available to persons of Indian origin anywhere in the world as long as they have never been citizens of Pakistan or of Bangladesh (a reservation excluding Muslims who joined Pakistan during or after the 1947 partition). This unusual type of citizenship by descent is an intermediate form of citizenship in that it does not grant the full portfolio of rights enjoyed by Indian citizens.
> 
> The Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2003[23] and Citizenship (Amendment) Ordinance 2005[24] make provision for an even newer form of Indian nationality, the holders of which are to be known as Overseas Citizens of India (OCI). Overseas citizenship is not substantially different from PIO rights.
> 
> Holding either PIO or OCI status does, however, facilitate access to full Indian citizenship. An OCI who has been registered for five years, for instance, need be resident for only one year in India before becoming a full citizen.
> 
> *Iraq*
> Main article: Iraqi nationality law
> 
> 
> *Ireland*
> Irish nationality law provides for Irish citizenship to be acquired on the basis of at least one Irish grandparent. Note that for the purposes of Irish nationality law a person born anywhere on the island of Ireland (including Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom where British nationality law applies: thus, people born in Northern Ireland are entitled to both British and Irish citizenship), is considered "Irish." The entitlement to citizenship of all people born on Ireland and its islands was stipulated by the 1922 Constitution of the Irish Free State, and the 1937 Constitution of Ireland and reinforced by 1998 Belfast Agreement. A person born outside Ireland with entitlement to Irish citizenship through a grandparent born in Ireland may pass that right on to her or his own children. To do so, however, that person must register her or his birth in Ireland's Foreign Births Register prior to the children's births. Irish law also automatically grants citizenship at birth to any individual born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland, without the need to register with the DFA prior to the granting of citizen's rights like holding an Irish passport.
> 
> Separately from this right, the Irish minister responsible for immigration may dispense with conditions of naturalisation to grant citizenship to an applicant who "is of Irish descent or Irish associations", under section 15 of the _Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1986_. With rare exceptions the applicant must be resident in the island of Ireland before applying for naturalisation.
> 
> *Israel*
> Main article: Law of Return
> The Law of Return is legislation enacted by Israel in 1950, that gives all Jews, persons of Jewish ancestry up to at least one Jewish grandparent, and spouses of Jews the right to immigrate to and settle in Israel and obtain citizenship, and obliges the Israeli government to facilitate their immigration. Originally, the law applied to Jews only, until a 1970 amendment stated that the rights "are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew". This resulted in several hundreds of thousands of persons qualifying for immigration to Israel (mainly from the former Soviet Union) but not being recognized as Jews by the Israeli religious authorities, which on the basis of halakha recognize only the child of a Jewish mother as being Jewish. People who would be otherwise eligible for this law can be excluded if they can reasonably be considered to constitute a danger to the welfare of the state, have a criminal past, or are wanted fugitives in their countries with the exception of persecution victims. Jews who convert to another religion also lose the right of return. Since 1950 2,734,245 Jews have immigrated to Israel.[25]
> 
> *Japan*
> A special visa category exists exclusively for foreign descendants of Japanese emigrates (Nikkeijin) up to the third generation, which provides for long-term residence, unrestricted by occupation, but most Nikkeijin cannot automatically acquire Japanese citizenship, and must instead go through the process of naturalization. However, the Minister of Justice can waive the age and residence requirements if an applicant for naturalization has a special relationship to Japan, such as a Japanese parent.
> 
> *Kazakhstan*
> Main article: Oralman
> 
> *Lithuania*
> From the Constitution of Lithuania, Article 32(4): "Every Lithuanian person may settle in Lithuania."[26]
> 
> *Norway*
> The Kola Norwegians were Norwegians who settled along the coastline of the Russian Kola Peninsula from approximately 1850 to the closure of the border in the 1920s. It is estimated that around 1000 Norwegians lived on the Kola peninsula in 1917. The Kola Norwegians were deported to or put in camps in other parts of Russia during the course of World War II.
> 
> It was only after 1990 that many of the Kola Norwegians again dared to emphasize their background. Only a few had been able to maintain a rusty knowledge of Norwegian. Some of them have migrated back to Norway. There are special provisions in the Norwegian rules of immigration and citizenship which eases this process for many Kola Norwegians. These provisions are in general stricter than in some other countries giving "Right of return". In order to obtain a permit to immigrate and work in Norway a Kola Norwegian will have to prove an adequate connection to Norway such as having at least two grandparents from Norway.[27] Citizenship will then be awarded according to regular rules.[28] As of 2004 approximately 200 Kola Norwegians had moved back to Norway.[29]
> 
> *Philippines*
> Republic Act No. 9225, approved 29 August 2003, provided that all Philippine citizens who become citizens of another country shall be deemed not to have lost their Philippine citizenship. It further states that natural-born citizens of the Philippines who have lost their Philippine citizenship by reason of their naturalization as citizens of a foreign country are hereby deemed to have re-acquired Philippine citizenship upon taking an oath of allegiance to the Republic, and that their children whether legitimate, illegitimate or adopted, below eighteen (18) years of age, shall be deemed citizens of the Philippines.[30]
> 
> *Poland*
> See also: Polish nationality law § Loss of Polish citizenship
> From the Constitution of Poland, Article 52(5): "Anyone whose Polish origin has been confirmed in accordance with statute may settle permanently in Poland."[31]
> 
> *Portugal*
> On April 12, 2013, the Portuguese parliament approved unanimously an amendment to its nationality laws which would permit the descendants of Jews expelled from Portugal in the 16th century to become Portuguese citizens.[32]
> 
> *Romania*
> Romania extends citizenship to all former citizens, as well as to the children and grandchildren of those who have lost their Romanian citizenship, regardless of ethnic background.[33]
> 
> *Russia*
> Russia offers citizenship to individuals descended from Russian ancestors who can demonstrate an affinity for Russian culture and, preferably, speak Russian. Concern about Russia's shrinking population prompted the program. This has had a positive effect because this has not only reversed Russia's population decline but has also increased the birth rate. Officials estimate that 25 million members of the Russian diaspora are eligible for citizenship. The Foreign Ministry has sent emissaries to countries around the world to urge the descendants of Russian emigrants to return home.[34] So far 70% of Russians have come from Ukraine. Many of these people are in the age group of 17 to 25 looking for a better education and a better place to start a family. With a recent increase of Russia's life expectancy and living standard more people have been willing to come back to Russia. As of the 2014 war in Ukraine this has triggered a mass exodus of ethnic Russians in Ukraine into Russia. A small amount of these people have also come from Romania and a few Siberian people's reuniting with their families who have been split since the Cold War. Mostly immigrants have come from former communist countries. Some people returning are the descendants of Russians who fled Russia during the Russian revolution.
> 
> *South Korea*
> Main article: South Korean nationality law
> "Overseas Korean" are eligible for dual citizenship.
> 
> *Serbia*
> Main article: Serbian nationality law
> Article 23 of the 2004 citizenship law provides that the descendants of emigrants from Serbia, or ethnic Serbs residing abroad, may take up citizenship upon written declaration.
> 
> *Spain*
> There are three categories of Spanish citizenship:
> 
> _
> 
> de origen (original citizenship)
> 
> por residencia (by residence)
> 
> por opción (by choice)
> _
> _De origen is [almost exclusively] acquired at the moment of birth, mainly to a Spanish parent, and can never be lost. Por residencia is acquired through a predetermined period of legal residency in Spain. This distinction is important because Spanish nationality laws primarily follow iure sanguinis, including those relating to the right of return.
> _
> The third category, _por opción_ (by choice), is given to some people of Spanish origins that, though not complying with the requisites to attain the original citizenship, are able to prove close ties to Spain; this option is given mainly to the children of people that have attained or recovered Spanish citizenship after their birth, but it has age limits and one must exercise this choice prior turning 20 (in some countries, like Argentina, prior turning 23, as majority of age is attained at 21 there). Most of the _por opción_ clauses do not confer original status (except those included in the Historical Memory Law), thus it can be lost, and, in case one possesses nationality other than those described below as historically related to Spain (e.g., United States), renounce their current nationality in front of Spanish consular officials.
> 
> In practice this renunciation has little practical effect, and in some cases no effect, as only renunciations made to one's own country's officials has an effect on the linked nationality.
> 
> The Historical Memory Law (Spanish: _Ley de Memoria Histórica_), which took effect in December 2008, introduced temporary two-year changes to current Spanish nationality laws. Those whose father or mother were born original Spaniards (regardless of their place of birth, whether they are still living, or whether they currently hold Spanish nationality) and those whose grandparents emigrated due to political or economic reasons will have the right to _de origen_ Spanish nationality. Until and while the Law of Historic Memory takes effect, the following laws will also apply:
> 
> 1. Natural-born Spanish emigrants (mainly exiles from the Spanish Civil War and economic migrants) and their children are eligible to _recover_ their _de origen_ Spanish nationality without the requirement of residence in Spain. They also have the right to maintain any current nationality they possess.
> 
> 2. Regardless of their place of birth, the adult children and grandchildren of original Spaniards (original Spaniards are those who, at the moment of their birth, were born to people who possessed Spanish citizenship) can also access Spanish nationality on softer terms than other foreigners: they require just 1 year of legal residence, and they are exempted from work restrictions. This law in practice also benefits the great-grandchildren of emigrant Spaniards as long as their grandparents (born outside of Spain) are/were original Spaniards.
> 
> 3. Ibero-Americans and citizens of other countries historically related to Spain (Portugal, Andorra, Philippines, and Equatorial Guinea) also have a Right of Return: They can apply to Spanish nationality after 2 years of Legal residence (the usual time is 10 years for most foreigners) and they have the right to keep their birth nationality.[35]
> 
> 4. Those of Sephardic Jewish origin also have the right to apply for nationality after a year of legal residency in Spain. Upon the rediscovery of Sephardi Jews during the campaigns of General Juan Prim in Northern Africa, the Spanish governments have taken friendly measures towards the descendants of the Jews expelled from Spain in 1492 under the Alhambra Decree and persecuted by the Spanish Inquisition. The motivation for these measures was a desire to repair a perceived injustice, the need of a collaborative base of natives in Spanish Morocco, and an attempt to attract the sympathy of wealthy European Sephardis like the Pereiras of France. The Alhambra Decree was revoked.
> 
> In November 2012, the Spanish government announced that it would eliminate the residency period for Sephardic Jews, and permit them to maintain dual citizenship, on the condition that such citizenship applicants presented a certificate of their Sephardic status from the Federation of Jewish Communities in Spain.[36]
> 
> Spanish diplomacy exercised protection over Sephardis of the Ottoman Empire and the independent Balkanic states succeeding it. The government of Miguel Primo de Rivera decreed in 1924 that every Sephardi could claim Spanish citizenship. This right was used by some refugees during the Second World War, including the Hungarian Jews saved by Ángel Sanz Briz and Giorgio Perlasca. This decree was again put to use to receive some Jews from Sarajevo during the Bosnian War.
> 
> In October 2006, the Andalusian Parliament asked the three parliamentary groups that form the majority to support an amendment that would ease the way for morisco descendants to gain Spanish citizenship. The proposal was originally made by IULV-CA, the Andalusian branch of the United Left.[37] Such a measure might have benefited an indeterminate number of people, particularly in Morocco and other Maghreb countries.[38] However, the call went unheeded by the central Spanish authorities (see Morisco#Descendants and Spanish citizenship).
> 
> *Turkey*
> Turkey's immigration laws permit people of ethnic Turkish descent to obtain Turkish citizenship without the traditional five-year residence requirement required of others.[_citation needed_]
> 
> *Taiwan*
> The immigration law of Taiwan (officially the Republic of China) gives priority to returning Taiwanese and overseas Chinese who are not citizens of the People's Republic of China, Chinese who were living abroad, and encourages their return. However, although Republic of China have not ceded the claim on mainland China, the government does not consider the people in mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau as Republic of China nationals.[39]
> 
> Overseas ethnic Chinese can register as Republic of China national and apply for a Republic of China passport, however, they do not automatically have a right of return to Taiwan area if they don't have a household registration there.
> 
> Not all Republic of China nationals have a right of return to Taiwan area even if they hold a Republic of China passport - specifically, those without a household registration in Taiwan area do not automatically have the right of return, may be refused entry, removed or deported from Taiwan area, and an entry permit is needed before 2011.
> 
> *Ukraine*
> Main article: Ukrainian citizenship
> According to Ukrainian law, anyone who was a citizen of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic who was residing in Ukraine at the time of its declaration of independence and any stateless person living on the territory of Ukraine at the moment of its declaration of independence was granted citizenship. Anyone born abroad to at least one parent with Ukrainian citizenship, including permanent residents of Ukraine, is entitled to Ukrainian citizenship. Children born within the territory of Ukraine to at least one Ukrainian parent, stateless persons with at least one Ukrainian grandparent, and children adopted by Ukrainian citizens are also eligible for citizenship.
> 
> *United Kingdom*
> The British Nationality Act 1948 conferred full and equal citizenship and settlement rights in Britain on all 800 million subjects of the worldwide British Empire.[40] The Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1968, amending legislation passed in 1962, removed the right of entry from 200,000 south Asians long resident in British East Africa who had become the victims of the Africanization drive in newly independent Kenya and wished to move to Britain.[41] The act required "substantial connection" to Britain, defined as (a) birth or the birth of a parent or grandparent in the United Kingdom, (b) a parent or grandparent who was Naturalised in the United Kingdom, (c) a parent or grandparent who became a citizen of the United Kingdom or its colonies by adoption (d) had acquired British Nationality under legislation passed in 1948 or 1964. Further provisions extended rights to stepchildren. The wording of this legislation refers to 'Citizenship', 'Naturalisation' and 'Residence', and at no point refers to any specific ethnicity or ethnic group.[41][42] Announcing his support for right of return legislation in Britain, MP Quintin Hogg stated that, "All the great nations of the earth have what the Jews call a Diaspora," and affirmed that nations "special and residual obligation(s) toward them," which include recognizing their right to citizenship.[43]
> 
> The Immigration Act 1971 affirmed the principles of the 1968 legislation, giving the right of immigration to the grandchildren of British citizens and nationals born in the Commonwealth nations.[43] It was in effect long enough to enable the descendants of ethnic Britons to return to Britain from the former colonies.[43]
> 
> The British Nationality Act 1981 differentiated between British Citizenship, British Overseas Citizenship, and British Dependent Territory Citizenship, recognizing the right of settlement only for British citizens.[43] It is notable that it was enacted after the contraction of the Empire was completed, and was offered to all substantial populations of descendants of ethnic Britons in the former colonies.[43]
> 
> - - -  - - -
Click to expand...

Indeed, these provide for the right to return.


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, these provide for the right to return.


*There is no "Right of Return" to what is now another country.*
Countries can (many but Not most do) INVITE/allow/extend a Privilege to Ancestral Ethnics to live in a country but, there is NO Universal "Right of Return."
Especially in cases where borders have changed/it is no longer their country.

Tens of Millions who fled to either side of the Pakistani/India 1947 Partition (and countless ancestors) have NO "right of return" to what is now another country.

2 million original Sudetan Germans and their Ancestors have NO "right of return" to the what is now the Czech Republic, because the War/land Germany Lost in 1945.

If and when Palestine becomes a real country, they will probably extend the privilege to their 'ethnics' to do same, but not to Israel.
But who would want to 'return'?"
It's over-crowded and under-employed due it's staggering Birth rate of the last 70 years - supported by the UNRWA. Were it not for that support, a few million probably would have left in a natural immigration.

That's my last post in this thread.
After this, it's just more Funnies for the PF Tinhead OCD Blog.
Goodbye.

`


----------



## Ropey

Today we invited Dr. Leah Goldin to address the UN. In August 2014, hours_ after a UN ceasefire_, Hamas terrorists ambushed an IDF unit and killed her son Hadar.

_Five years later, Hamas refuses to transfer his remains._

Leah Goldin to UNHRC: What if this was your son? - UN Watch
~~~~~


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian woman harvesting olives in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


>







you're a terrorist supporter...you have no edge with this torture article [true or not].


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

abu afak said:


> FYI:
> Anyone and Everyone who posts/Patronizes/prolongs this thread/BLOG/BS is going to get 'Funny's only from me, and get them regularly. No matter your opinion.
> Already started.
> I will also be withdrawing any positive feedback previous in the thread from any posting here.
> 
> My suggestion is to start your own thread and Real topic, rather the post in the BS Blog.
> 
> **** all of you jerks who in actuality is an unwitting Shill for PF Tinhead.
> 
> 
> `



What could be worse then his insisting that “ Real Jews” don’t believe the Jewish State should exist actually comparing the Hasidic and Orthodox Jews to Hamas?
  Before one posts such a post one should have enough sense to ask why such Religious Jews are against it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrest a Palestinian girl during a protest staged by a group of youths in Jerusalem in solidarity with the Palestinian prisoner Samer al-Arabeed who was severely tortured by Israeli interrogators and is currently in a coma in an Israeli hospital.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Architecture students bring destroyed Palestinian villages back to life*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians princess.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers beat and detain a Palestinian youth during a protest against the settlement in Jericho.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem

Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Bethlehem

   The Jewish people have as much right to it as the Palestinians and Christians; whether you won't to acknowledge it or not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
Click to expand...

Ask Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask Jordan.
Click to expand...


Typical deflection when you have no answer


If Jews were forbidden then why should the Palestinians have access to it now?

Why should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to have access knowing that if the Palestinians ever got control of the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem they would not have access to Bethlehem or their other Holy Sites?

 This is one time where you can’t come up with your stupid answer; “ Ask Jordan”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical deflection when you have no answer
> 
> 
> If Jews were forbidden then why should the Palestinians have access to it now?
> 
> Why should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to have access knowing that if the Palestinians ever got control of the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem they would not have access to Bethlehem or their other Holy Sites?
> 
> This is one time where you can’t come up with your stupid answer; “ Ask Jordan”
Click to expand...

Give them an inch, they take a mile.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical deflection when you have no answer
> 
> 
> If Jews were forbidden then why should the Palestinians have access to it now?
> 
> Why should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to have access knowing that if the Palestinians ever got control of the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem they would not have access to Bethlehem or their other Holy Sites?
> 
> This is one time where you can’t come up with your stupid answer; “ Ask Jordan”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give them an inch, they take a mile.
Click to expand...


Another stupid answer. Please tell us what “ inch” the Arabs gave the Israelis regarding their Holy Sites and why Israel should be any different

 Why won’t  you directly answer a question regarding the PLO position on that Jews will not be allowed at the Western Wall?  Because you can’t


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical deflection when you have no answer
> 
> 
> If Jews were forbidden then why should the Palestinians have access to it now?
> 
> Why should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to have access knowing that if the Palestinians ever got control of the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem they would not have access to Bethlehem or their other Holy Sites?
> 
> This is one time where you can’t come up with your stupid answer; “ Ask Jordan”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give them an inch, they take a mile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid answer. Please tell us what “ inch” the Arabs gave the Israelis regarding their Holy Sites and why Israel should be any different
> 
> Why won’t  you directly answer a question regarding the PLO position on that Jews will not be allowed at the Western Wall?  Because you can’t
Click to expand...

I am not the spokesperson for the Palestinian oligarchs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem
> 
> Please tell us why Jews were denied access into Bethlehem
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Jordan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Typical deflection when you have no answer
> 
> 
> If Jews were forbidden then why should the Palestinians have access to it now?
> 
> Why should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to have access knowing that if the Palestinians ever got control of the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem they would not have access to Bethlehem or their other Holy Sites?
> 
> This is one time where you can’t come up with your stupid answer; “ Ask Jordan”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give them an inch, they take a mile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid answer. Please tell us what “ inch” the Arabs gave the Israelis regarding their Holy Sites and why Israel should be any different
> 
> Why won’t  you directly answer a question regarding the PLO position on that Jews will not be allowed at the Western Wall?  Because you can’t
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not the spokesperson for the Palestinian oligarchs.
Click to expand...


    If you won't condemn the Palestinians because you are not the spokesperson for the Palestinian oligarchs then you have no business condemning Israel .  Your Hypocrisy shows every time you post


----------



## P F Tinmore

*From local heritage ambassador to world heritage ambassador: A Palestinian’s dream*

*



*

When Samar Qawasmi was awarded the title of 2019 Palestinian Ambassador to Heritage and Folklore, she immediately started to think of her next move: World Heritage Ambassador, and she is getting ready to compete for it when it will be held in Cairo next month.

Qawasmi, 22, from Jerusalem and a senior in business administration and marketing at Bethlehem University with great passion for heritage and folklore, saw an advertisement at her college for the competition for Palestinian Ambassador to Heritage and Folklore and immediately applied for it.

Qawasmi said she felt a sense of pride for starting her steps in the right way. “I have always wanted to be part of any project that might contribute to spreading awareness about the rich Palestinian heritage and its uniqueness, just as any ancient civilization in the world.”

*From local heritage ambassador to world heritage ambassador: A Palestinian’s dream*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

For your well-being we sacrifice.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Going to school in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> If this is not terrorism, what is it then?


No...it isn't.  This is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...680948-2fe5-11e5-a879-213078d03dd3_story.html

And yet the culprits homes were not bulldozed and there are those who insist it and acts like it are not terrorism. Go figure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

We reserve the right to defend ourselves by breaking into Palestinian homes and arresting children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Apartheid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Speaks for itself.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What does "The Israel Lobby - US" documentary reveal about the lobby in America? - Ali Abunimah*


----------



## P F Tinmore

The best and most beautiful thing about the olive season in Palestine is that it brings together grandparents and grandchildren. The stories grandparents tell their grandchildren as they teach and guide them how to deal with the olive tree are the most precious.
Photo by Jamal Kiwan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Six sons are being held in Israeli jails. A seventh was killed by Israeli occupation forces in 1994. Israel has attempted to shatter the Abu Hmeid family in Ramallah in every way. This is a picture of their home after it was leveled to the ground this morning.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Um Naser Abu Hmeid stands on the ruins of her home which was demolished by Israeli occupation forces in Ramallah at dawn today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Praying.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!



Even the Arab sources mention he was jailed for murdering an Israeli,
that you avoided mentioning this could either mean you just lie knowingly,
or that you conflate military operations with politics.

So which one is it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Arab sources mention he was jailed for murdering an Israeli,
> that you avoided mentioning this could either mean you just lie knowingly,
> or that you conflate military operations with politics.
> 
> So which one is it?
Click to expand...

Palestinians get busted for fighting against the illegal occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Arab sources mention he was jailed for murdering an Israeli,
> that you avoided mentioning this could either mean you just lie knowingly,
> or that you conflate military operations with politics.
> 
> So which one is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get busted for fighting against the illegal occupation.
Click to expand...


But if you just acknowledged he was a fighter participating in military operation,
why intentionally lie about him being a political prisoner?

Were you duped by the Pali propaganda,
 or chose to mislead on your own?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



If there is no danger,
why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?

And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Arab sources mention he was jailed for murdering an Israeli,
> that you avoided mentioning this could either mean you just lie knowingly,
> or that you conflate military operations with politics.
> 
> So which one is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get busted for fighting against the illegal occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But if you just acknowledged he was a fighter participating in military operation,
> why intentionally lie about him being a political prisoner?
> 
> Were you duped by the Pali propaganda,
> or chose to mislead on your own?
Click to expand...

Fighting against an illegal occupation is not illegal. He is a political prisoner.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
Click to expand...

They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian detainee Nael al-Barghouti turns 62 today. Al-Barghouti is the longest-serving political prisoner in history as he was arrested by Israeli occupation forces in 1978!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Arab sources mention he was jailed for murdering an Israeli,
> that you avoided mentioning this could either mean you just lie knowingly,
> or that you conflate military operations with politics.
> 
> So which one is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestinians get busted for fighting against the illegal occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But if you just acknowledged he was a fighter participating in military operation,
> why intentionally lie about him being a political prisoner?
> 
> Were you duped by the Pali propaganda,
> or chose to mislead on your own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fighting against an illegal occupation is not illegal. He is a political prisoner.
Click to expand...


I was not referring to 'legal' or 'illegal' which is all a matter of opinion.
But rather you framing a military operation as political action.

What prevents then an occupation to be equated with mere political action?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



The aid being knives, guns, grenades, metal pipes to beat ppl with, etc.  Didn't you ever see the "We Con the World" music video?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
Click to expand...


Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?

And why was there no aid on the ship?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
> or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?
> 
> And why was there no aid on the ship?
Click to expand...

That was the passenger ship. Duh!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Samar al-Bou', 28, has re-opened her father's apiary 13 years after he was killed by an Israeli airstrike in the same place. Samar hopes to revive her father's dream and help her family financially.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian schoolchildren enjoy a happy rainy day in Nablus, the occupied West Bank.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
> or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?
> 
> And why was there no aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was the passenger ship. Duh!
Click to expand...


I mean, didn't you see the footage where those hooded thugs were walking around with billy clubs, just waiting for the soldiers to drop down so they could be beaten over their heads?  Are you getting paid for this nonsense or are you a just an idiotic tool for the Islamists?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian schoolchildren enjoy a happy rainy day in Nablus, the occupied West Bank.



They don't look persecuted to me.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
> or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?
> 
> And why was there no aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was the passenger ship. Duh!
Click to expand...


Then it's even worse,
by dismissing instructions they endangered passengers under their responsibility.
And why subject the ship and passengers to a needless cargo procedure, by falsely advertising it as an "aid ship", if there was no intent of providing any aid whatsoever?

But frankly P F Tinmore, we both know you'll obsessively lie about anything,
I'm just playing you to see you do the usual *Jihadi- Duck- Dance*


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
> or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?
> 
> And why was there no aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was the passenger ship. Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean, didn't you see the footage where those hooded thugs were walking around with billy clubs, just waiting for the soldiers to drop down so they could be beaten over their heads?  Are you getting paid for this nonsense or are you a just an idiotic tool for the Islamists?
Click to expand...

They were defending themselves from an attack.

What is your point?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is no danger,
> why refuse the check and intentionally confront the army?
> 
> And why wasn't there actually any aid on the ship?
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't confront the army. The army attacked them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did they agree to a check, follow instruction,
> or simply dismiss the warnings and proceeded straight towards the patrol?
> 
> And why was there no aid on the ship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That was the passenger ship. Duh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I mean, didn't you see the footage where those hooded thugs were walking around with billy clubs, just waiting for the soldiers to drop down so they could be beaten over their heads?  Are you getting paid for this nonsense or are you a just an idiotic tool for the Islamists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were defending themselves from an attack.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


That they didn't come to supply any aid, but just to make trouble and stage a ridiculous and false PR event.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Lasting love.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestine mountain gazelle. A photo by Mohammed Mahamid taken in Bisan, north of Occupied Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers burn Palestinian-owned olive trees in Burin village in the West Bank district of Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian man Belal Hamdan, 65, has a small kiosk selling books on a busy road in Jenin, the West Bank.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestine mountain gazelle. A photo by Mohammed Mahamid taken in Bisan, north of Occupied Palestine.


Stunning photo!


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian schoolchildren enjoy a happy rainy day in Nablus, the occupied West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't look persecuted to me.
Click to expand...

They are happy kids...kids have an amazing ability to find joy


----------



## Coyote




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian young girls attend a Karate class in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian young woman Anwar Refaei from the West Bank takes care of a Palestinian toddler from besieged Gaza after the Israeli occupation authorities prevented his parents from accompanying him for treatment in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

Palestinian teen wins international equestrian award

From a year ago, but still cool....go Palestinian girls!

A 15-year-old Palestinian girl won an international award for horse riding in Bahrain on Tuesday.

Leila Malki from occupied Ramallah was awarded the “Against All Odds” prize by the International Federation for Equestrian Sports (FEI).

The teen began riding when she was just five-years-old in the occupied West Bank where she lived all her life, *she said her win is a way to break taboos for women and has become the first Arab female to win the accolade.*

“I’ve been through a lot challengers and a lot of borders in front of me,” Leila said, adding: “but I’ve believed in myself and I’ve had confidence to achieve my goals and I’d like to tell every woman out there, *if you have a dream if you have a goal go ahead and do it.”



 
*


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian young woman Anwar Refaei from the West Bank takes care of a Palestinian toddler from besieged Gaza after the Israeli occupation authorities prevented his parents from accompanying him for treatment in the West Bank.



To be fair, Israeli doctors do a lot for Palestinians ... there is a lot of caring.

Israeli doctors who saved thousands of Palestinian children honoured by UN

A group of Israeli doctors have bypassed the region's politics to save thousands of Palestinian children and those from 57 other countries by operating on their diseased hearts. 

Earlier this week, the doctors with Save a Child's Heart, an organisation based in Holon just south of Tel Aviv, were honoured at the United Nations, where Israeli positions have often clashed with those held by Arab member nations.


But group co-founder Dr. Sion Houri said that when it comes to children's lives, “Our activity is international, non-political and non-religious.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.


----------



## Coyote

Horse power: Riding helps disabled Gazan teen build confidence


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian young woman Anwar Refaei from the West Bank takes care of a Palestinian toddler from besieged Gaza after the Israeli occupation authorities prevented his parents from accompanying him for treatment in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, Israeli doctors do a lot for Palestinians ... there is a lot of caring.
> 
> Israeli doctors who saved thousands of Palestinian children honoured by UN
> 
> A group of Israeli doctors have bypassed the region's politics to save thousands of Palestinian children and those from 57 other countries by operating on their diseased hearts.
> 
> Earlier this week, the doctors with Save a Child's Heart, an organisation based in Holon just south of Tel Aviv, were honoured at the United Nations, where Israeli positions have often clashed with those held by Arab member nations.
> 
> 
> But group co-founder Dr. Sion Houri said that when it comes to children's lives, “Our activity is international, non-political and non-religious.”
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israeli doctors are an entirely different class of people than the politicians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian young woman Anwar Refaei from the West Bank takes care of a Palestinian toddler from besieged Gaza after the Israeli occupation authorities prevented his parents from accompanying him for treatment in the West Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, Israeli doctors do a lot for Palestinians ... there is a lot of caring.
> 
> Israeli doctors who saved thousands of Palestinian children honoured by UN
> 
> A group of Israeli doctors have bypassed the region's politics to save thousands of Palestinian children and those from 57 other countries by operating on their diseased hearts.
> 
> Earlier this week, the doctors with Save a Child's Heart, an organisation based in Holon just south of Tel Aviv, were honoured at the United Nations, where Israeli positions have often clashed with those held by Arab member nations.
> 
> 
> But group co-founder Dr. Sion Houri said that when it comes to children's lives, “Our activity is international, non-political and non-religious.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israeli doctors are an entirely different class of people than the politicians.
Click to expand...

Politicians around the world are problematic....


And hard to fire


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.


Wow...how beautiful 

So much rich history in that one spot of the world


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
Click to expand...


OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom. 

And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!  

Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.  

So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Journalist Mustafa Al-Kharouf meets his family following his release from Israeli jail after 9 months of detention, Givon prison, Ramle city. His detention came after the Israeli Ministry of Interior Affairs refused his application for family unification on alleged "security grounds", and ordered his immediate deportation to Jordan, where he has no legal rights to reside and will remain stateless. The photojournalist has been living in Jerusalem since 1999 and married to a Jerusalem resident and his father is Palestinian.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
Click to expand...

Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,

Thank you


----------



## Coyote

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
Click to expand...


Or maybe you can provide a list of those we ARE allowed to admire (they would have no associations with conquest, abuse of people, slave labor, inequality, cultural conquest, and anything else you can think of to throw into the mix).  That would be a much shorter list.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
Click to expand...



I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”. 

It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people. 

Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Journalist Mustafa Al-Kharouf meets his family following his release from Israeli jail after 9 months of detention, Givon prison, Ramle city. His detention came after the Israeli Ministry of Interior Affairs refused his application for family unification on alleged "security grounds", and ordered his immediate deportation to Jordan, where he has no legal rights to reside and will remain stateless. The photojournalist has been living in Jerusalem since 1999 and married to a Jerusalem resident and his father is Palestinian.



This is a mess involving a number of different citizenships and nationalities. 

But Israel should just give him a residency permit, based on his Palestinian heritage and his marriage.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian brutalizes Israeli girlfriend's baby; 11-month-old dies of injuries


    Hope it happens to him in an Israeli Jail


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Arabic translation of 'Mein Kampf' found in Israeli bookstore


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”.
> 
> It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people.
> 
> Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!
Click to expand...

Yes.  I was commenting on the beauty of the ancient architecture.  And yes.  I was commenting in the rich history of the place.  A hell of a lot of history has walked those lands.  But obviously that can not be admired even though it was built 1300 years ago.

Again, it would be helpful if you could provide a list of acceptable architecture, art, history and cultures to comment on. You know, something that didnt involve conquest of prior cultures, slave labor, hunan rights abuses or any thing that is not acceptable today.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning from al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Have a blessed Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”.
> 
> It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people.
> 
> Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I was commenting on the beauty of the ancient architecture.  And yes.  I was commenting in the rich history of the place.  A hell of a lot of history has walked those lands.  But obviously that can not be admired even though it was built 1300 years ago.
> 
> Again, it would be helpful if you could provide a list of acceptable architecture, art, history and cultures to comment on. You know, something that didnt involve conquest of prior cultures, slave labor, hunan rights abuses or any thing that is not acceptable today.
Click to expand...


Well, I don't know.  How many religious and historical monuments are there in the world where the originating historical culture is PROHIBITED from accessing their own site in contravention of international humanitarian law and peace treaties because the conquering culture gets VIOLENT for having to share with the original culture?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...how beautiful
> 
> So much rich history in that one spot of the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”.
> 
> It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people.
> 
> Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I was commenting on the beauty of the ancient architecture.  And yes.  I was commenting in the rich history of the place.  A hell of a lot of history has walked those lands.  But obviously that can not be admired even though it was built 1300 years ago.
> 
> Again, it would be helpful if you could provide a list of acceptable architecture, art, history and cultures to comment on. You know, something that didnt involve conquest of prior cultures, slave labor, hunan rights abuses or any thing that is not acceptable today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know.  How many religious and historical monuments are there in the world where the originating historical culture is PROHIBITED from accessing their own site in contravention of international humanitarian law and peace treaties because the conquering culture gets VIOLENT for having to share with the original culture?
Click to expand...


You are really going apples and oranges here solely because I admired a beautiful photo (which doesnt mean I agree or admire the current situstion) and because I said the region had a rich heritage.  Which it does independent of the current situation.  It is part of the birthplace of civilizations but we can not even acknowledge that now.

The world is full of historical sites built upon older artifacts, for better or worse.  If you are going to be consistent in your outrage you have a lengthy list of places, not to mention cultures including those the Jewish people themselves conquered and obliterated.

That doesnt excuse the modern inequity at all, but a beautiful building built 1300 years ago is itself also a historical artifact and there is nothing wrong with admiring it's beauty.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.



Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG.  Isn't it SO beautiful when conquest, invasion, colonialism, and genocide create a "rich" tapestry of diverse cultures!  Its so COOL when historic, native cultures are destroyed and new cultures are built upon the ruins!  Yay!  And everyone is equal there.  No matter who conquered whom.
> 
> And the BEST is when we can post a photo of the diverse cultures in a specific place.  Look at all the Jews and the Muslims praying together in peace and harmony!  Such richness!
> 
> Oh wait. Jews aren't allowed there. Jews can't pray there.  Jews can't worship there.  Jews can't even hold symbols of Judaism there.
> 
> So much RICH history, as long as, you know, THOSE peoples history is erased and not allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”.
> 
> It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people.
> 
> Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I was commenting on the beauty of the ancient architecture.  And yes.  I was commenting in the rich history of the place.  A hell of a lot of history has walked those lands.  But obviously that can not be admired even though it was built 1300 years ago.
> 
> Again, it would be helpful if you could provide a list of acceptable architecture, art, history and cultures to comment on. You know, something that didnt involve conquest of prior cultures, slave labor, hunan rights abuses or any thing that is not acceptable today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know.  How many religious and historical monuments are there in the world where the originating historical culture is PROHIBITED from accessing their own site in contravention of international humanitarian law and peace treaties because the conquering culture gets VIOLENT for having to share with the original culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are really going apples and oranges here solely because I admired a beautiful photo (which doesnt mean I agree or admire the current situstion) and because I said the region had a rich heritage.  Which it does independent of the current situation.  It is part of the birthplace of civilizations but we can not even acknowledge that now.
> 
> The world is full of historical sites built upon older artifacts, for better or worse.  If you are going to be consistent in your outrage you have a lengthy list of places, not to mention cultures including those the Jewish people themselves conquered and obliterated.
> 
> That doesnt excuse the modern inequity at all, but a beautiful building built 1300 years ago is itself also a historical artifact and there is nothing wrong with admiring it's beauty.
Click to expand...


But you didn't "admire its beauty".  You commented on the "rich history" of the place.  And then proceeded to double down when challenged on it.  And then tossed in your favourite fallacy "everybody does it".  (Which is not true, btw.  And it IS a violation of human rights as well as international agreements).

As an alternative, when posting about the Temple Mount, you could show some sensitivity for the Jewish people and how their human rights are currently being violated on the Temple Mount.  

I understand that the post was likely innocent.  But the continued arguing AFTER its been pointed out to be insensitive is not.


----------



## Shusha

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
Click to expand...


Tinmore will continue to argue that "Palestine" is "occupied" as long as there is Jewish self-determination and sovereignty in any square inch of the land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> finding real solutions to the current problems


Solution to what problem?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.  Wow.  I guess we are not allowed to admire the beautiful art and  architecture of a something built 1,300 years ago.  Thank for the timely reminder.  Perhaps you can send us a list of historic artifacts, sites and buildings around the world we are not allowed to admire any more so none us make that horrible mistake of appreciating beauty again,
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sorry, were you commenting on the architecture?  No, doesn’t seem like you were. What you were commenting on was the “rich history”.
> 
> It’s a history which at the moment excludes and erases the very people who began the history in the place. The “rich history” comes at the expense of the Jewish people.
> 
> Do you also celebrate taking a totem pole, and re-carving the Thunderbird into JC, putting it in a church and then excluding First Nations peoples from visiting it? But such a rich history!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  I was commenting on the beauty of the ancient architecture.  And yes.  I was commenting in the rich history of the place.  A hell of a lot of history has walked those lands.  But obviously that can not be admired even though it was built 1300 years ago.
> 
> Again, it would be helpful if you could provide a list of acceptable architecture, art, history and cultures to comment on. You know, something that didnt involve conquest of prior cultures, slave labor, hunan rights abuses or any thing that is not acceptable today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know.  How many religious and historical monuments are there in the world where the originating historical culture is PROHIBITED from accessing their own site in contravention of international humanitarian law and peace treaties because the conquering culture gets VIOLENT for having to share with the original culture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are really going apples and oranges here solely because I admired a beautiful photo (which doesnt mean I agree or admire the current situstion) and because I said the region had a rich heritage.  Which it does independent of the current situation.  It is part of the birthplace of civilizations but we can not even acknowledge that now.
> 
> The world is full of historical sites built upon older artifacts, for better or worse.  If you are going to be consistent in your outrage you have a lengthy list of places, not to mention cultures including those the Jewish people themselves conquered and obliterated.
> 
> That doesnt excuse the modern inequity at all, but a beautiful building built 1300 years ago is itself also a historical artifact and there is nothing wrong with admiring it's beauty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But you didn't "admire its beauty".  You commented on the "rich history" of the place.  And then proceeded to double down when challenged on it.  And then tossed in your favourite fallacy "everybody does it".  (Which is not true, btw.  And it IS a violation of human rights as well as international agreements).
> 
> As an alternative, when posting about the Temple Mount, you could show some sensitivity for the Jewish people and how their human rights are currently being violated on the Temple Mount.
> 
> I understand that the post was likely innocent.  But the continued arguing AFTER its been pointed out to be insensitive is not.
Click to expand...



Frankly I don’t understand why you are attacking me on this and I am tired of it.  My VERY FIRST COMMENT was “how beautiful”, that was my first statement, but I guess you overlooked it. 

The area is rich in archaeology, history and beauty.  You are lambasting me for two short, simple and honest statements.  What the hell?

I don’t disagree with you on the fact that it is WRONG that Jews have LESS rights there, but that has nothing to do with admiring a beautiful ancient structure and the rich history of the area in general.  Every statement must now be made with political/cultural minefields in mind?  I support Jewish rights to worship there and frankly to take precedence as long as no one else’s rights are taken away, which they have not been.  I have been in discussions with you on that.

But this is not something that should be a minefield, it is simply admiring something beautiful and ancient and sometimes a beautiful picture is just that, a beautiful picture.  It sure would be nice to be able to honestly admire something without having to worry about cultural faux pas.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
Click to expand...




*Nazareth* is within Israel's 1948 borders and can in no way be considered under “occupation” or part of the *West Bank*.

   Let Tinmore come up with the facts to dispute this.   He can't.  His ridiculous claims are from frustration and anger


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding real solutions to the current problems
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solution to what problem?
Click to expand...

Conflict, violence against civilians, rights, recognition of the right to exist, self determination, access to resources, equitable distribution of resources....kind of a long list.


----------



## Ropey

US lawmakers call out Twitter for allowing Hamas and Hezbollah on the platform


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding real solutions to the current problems
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solution to what problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conflict, violence against civilians, rights, recognition of the right to exist, self determination, access to resources, equitable distribution of resources....kind of a long list.
Click to expand...

Those are the symptoms.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ropey said:


> US lawmakers call out Twitter for allowing Hamas and Hezbollah on the platform


You can't just ban people over differences in opinion.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding real solutions to the current problems
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solution to what problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conflict, violence against civilians, rights, recognition of the right to exist, self determination, access to resources, equitable distribution of resources....kind of a long list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are the symptoms.
Click to expand...

No...they are problems.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful Nazareth, occupied Palestine. Photo by Jamal Kiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding real solutions to the current problems
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solution to what problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conflict, violence against civilians, rights, recognition of the right to exist, self determination, access to resources, equitable distribution of resources....kind of a long list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are the symptoms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they are problems.
Click to expand...

Colonization is the problem. Those other things are the results.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you are misinterpreting the nature of the problem.  And "colonization" is only a problem because the Arab cultures make it so.  Not because it is inherently wrong.  The entirety of the Middle East is a history of various colonization by various authorities by military means and international agreements.

The establishment of a state is _(in reality)_ something that is a work product and not an academic right of some sort.    The "Right to Self-Determination" is not an absolute right.  Most pro-Arab Palestinians don't follow or recognize the international law principle that territory remains with the original sovereign at the end of a conflict *unless* otherwise provided for by the treaty.

_*Uti* *possidetis "as you possess"*_

*ARTICLE 16*.

_Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty,_ the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

_The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries._​uti possidetis _(yoo-tI pah-si-dee-tis)_. [latin] 1. lnt'l law. The doctrine that the administrative boundaries will become international boundaries when a political subdivision or colony achieves independence.  ​


P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No...they are problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Colonization is the problem. Those other things are the results.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The basic position the Arabs had for over 100 years is that, no matter the reality, no matter the historical context, no matter the outcome of a conflict, no matter the Articles of the Treaty, an unfounded belief that they have some specific right to the territory under the disposition of the treaty.

.......... 

 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I think you are misinterpreting the nature of the problem.  And "colonization" is only a problem because the Arab cultures make it so.  Not because it is inherently wrong.  The entirety of the Middle East is a history of various colonization by various authorities by military means and international agreements.
> 
> The establishment of a state is _(in reality)_ something that is a work product and not an academic right of some sort.    The "Right to Self-Determination" is not an absolute right.  Most pro-Arab Palestinians don't follow or recognize the international law principle that territory remains with the original sovereign at the end of a conflict *unless* otherwise provided for by the treaty.
> 
> _*Uti* *possidetis "as you possess"*_
> *ARTICLE 16*.
> 
> _Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognized by the said Treaty,_ the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> _The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighborly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries._​uti possidetis _(yoo-tI pah-si-dee-tis)_. [latin] 1. lnt'l law. The doctrine that the administrative boundaries will become international boundaries when a political subdivision or colony achieves independence.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No...they are problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Colonization is the problem. Those other things are the results.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The basic position the Arabs had for over 100 years is that, no matter the reality, no matter the historical context, no matter the outcome of a conflict, no matter the Articles of the Treaty, an unfounded belief that they have some specific right to the territory under the disposition of the treaty.
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Most pro-Arab Palestinians don't follow or recognize the international law principle that territory remains with the original sovereign at the end of a conflict *unless* otherwise provided for by the treaty.


Indeed, you have been dancing around this issue for years.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

I see that someone marked my post about Nazareth being in Israel proper and Nablus being in the West Bank "informative."  Now, l don't want to sound harsh, but before people post here on the Israel/Palestine Board, they should really educate themselves about the location of cities within the area in question.  These are the most basic facts and information about the conflict.  Better yet, even try to visit the area, because what you see and experience in reality might be very different from what the media portrays.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazareth is located in Israel proper and not in the West Bank.  Perhaps you are confusing Nazareth with Nablus.  I told you this before...if you continue to call cities like Haifa, Tel Aviv or Nazareth "occupied Palestine", then you are not being serious about finding real solutions to the current problems and conflicts in Israel and Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding real solutions to the current problems
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solution to what problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conflict, violence against civilians, rights, recognition of the right to exist, self determination, access to resources, equitable distribution of resources....kind of a long list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are the symptoms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they are problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Colonization is the problem. Those other things are the results.
Click to expand...


No, the problem might be that some people think the year on the calendar says "1948" instead of "2019."  And if they don't realize that the year now is 2019, and deal with that accordingly, then the colonization that you speak of, will continue in the West Bank.  So these people who do not know what year it is, are shooting themselves in the foot, and handing over more of Eretz Yisrael to its original owners.  So you are surely not doing your cause any favors by not recognizing the year on the calendar today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An old street in Nablus at night. Photo by Khalil Kawa.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Young men and women perform the Palestinian Dabke during the Palestine Heritage Festival in Birzeit University in the West Bank. Photo by Hamza Shalash.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Deir al-Balah City in the Gaza Strip, which is well known for growing date palms. (Balah in Arabic means dates). Photo by Wesam Bashir.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza sea port. Photo by Atia Darwish.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The olive season in Palestine is a joy for everyone who takes part in the harvest. It brings grandparents, parents, children and grandchildren together. The best memories are usually made during the olive season.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Khalil's grapes are the tastiest.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Al-Khalil's grapes are the tastiest.



The city was called Hebron before it was called al-Kahalil.  (It means "Friend" in both Hebrew and Arabic, as in Abraham being the friend of Gd, but the Hebrew name came first.)


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Young men and women perform the Palestinian Dabke during the Palestine Heritage Festival in Birzeit University in the West Bank. Photo by Hamza Shalash.



Just looked up that dance on Wikipedia.  Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians and Iraqis also perform that dance.  It is derived from Phoenicia, which is modern-day Lebanon.  So it is not unique to "Palestine".


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Right of Return Conference Day 2: Noura Erakat & Liat Rosenberg Keynote*

**


----------



## rylah

*Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain*

Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages.

The growing clamor for "historical justice" comes after the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492.

Muslim supporters say they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as Jews because both groups were expelled from Spain under similar historical circumstances.

But historians point out that the Jewish presence in Spain predates the arrival of Christianity in the country and that their expulsion was a matter of bigotry. By contrast, the Muslims in Spain were colonial occupiers who called the territory Al-Andalus and imposed Arabic as the official language. Historians say their expulsion was a matter of decolonization.






They seem to demand a "Right of Return" to many places they've once INVADED...


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> An old street in Nablus at night. Photo by Khalil Kawa.


Another very striking photo, beautiful done


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> *Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain*
> 
> Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages.
> 
> The growing clamor for "historical justice" comes after the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492.
> 
> Muslim supporters say they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as Jews because both groups were expelled from Spain under similar historical circumstances.
> 
> But historians point out that the Jewish presence in Spain predates the arrival of Christianity in the country and that their expulsion was a matter of bigotry. By contrast, the Muslims in Spain were colonial occupiers who called the territory Al-Andalus and imposed Arabic as the official language. Historians say their expulsion was a matter of decolonization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to demand a "Right of Return" to many places they've once INVADED...




Why should they not have the same set of rights?  Neither group ORIGINATED in Spain, both were brutally expelled (and killed, and forcibly converted).

You seem to operate on two completely different sets of standards depending on the ethnicity of the victims.


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I see that someone marked my post about Nazareth being in Israel proper and Nablus being in the West Bank "informative."  Now, l don't want to sound harsh, but before people post here on the Israel/Palestine Board, they should really educate themselves about the location of cities within the area in question.  These are the most basic facts and information about the conflict.  Better yet, even try to visit the area, because what you see and experience in reality might be very different from what the media portrays.



So we shouldn't mark it as informative?  I'm not aware of exactly where different cities are.  But then - I also haven't commented on those cities either.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza starts @ 40:18
*Abby Martin on Hillary's NeoMcCarthyism and 'Gaza Fights for Freedom,' Plus #BerniesBack*


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain*
> 
> Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages.
> 
> The growing clamor for "historical justice" comes after the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492.
> 
> Muslim supporters say they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as Jews because both groups were expelled from Spain under similar historical circumstances.
> 
> But historians point out that the Jewish presence in Spain predates the arrival of Christianity in the country and that their expulsion was a matter of bigotry. By contrast, the Muslims in Spain were colonial occupiers who called the territory Al-Andalus and imposed Arabic as the official language. Historians say their expulsion was a matter of decolonization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They seem to demand a "Right of Return" to many places they've once INVADED...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should they not have the same set of rights?  Neither group ORIGINATED in Spain, both were brutally expelled (and killed, and forcibly converted).
> 
> You seem to operate on two completely different sets of standards depending on the ethnicity of the victims.
Click to expand...



*The Islamic State's Claim to Spain | The New York Times*


Well the answer was in the article:
unlike Jews, your Islamist buddies actually invaded the country subjugating the entire peninsula through murder and war. Unlike the fake propaganda of "coexistence" under their rule, many Jewish communities had to flee their barbarity and eventual attempt to forcibly convert people of whom the famous Jewish sage, Maimonides and his family along with many more happen to be a good example.

Also probably because unlike Jews to whom this right was recently granted by the king looking forward to their development of the society for the sake of all, your Islamist buddies just demand it while proposing nothing but degradation and various terror acts like suicide bombing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abby Martin Introduces Her Documentary - "Gaza fights for Freedom"*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abby Martin Introduces Her Documentary - "Gaza fights for Freedom"*
> 
> **



Is there a reason she’s not wearing a shirt?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abby Martin Introduces Her Documentary - "Gaza fights for Freedom"*
> 
> **



"Documentary".


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Why should they not have the same set of rights?  Neither group ORIGINATED in Spain, both were brutally expelled (and killed, and forcibly converted).
> 
> You seem to operate on two completely different sets of standards depending on the ethnicity of the victims.



Except, if you read rylah's post, you would see that it is NOT based on ethnicity, but on circumstance.  

This is an extremely nuanced conversation.  There are a number of complicated subjects involved:


What is the intent of return?
What is the ideology fueling return?
Can we and should we right "past wrongs"?
How far back should we go?
What would be considered a "wrong"?
Does the process of decolonization require expulsion?
Is expulsion ever justified?  If so, under what circumstances?
Can return of conquerers, even by legal means, be considered a re-conquest?  

There is a lot to unpack here.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should they not have the same set of rights?  Neither group ORIGINATED in Spain, both were brutally expelled (and killed, and forcibly converted).
> 
> You seem to operate on two completely different sets of standards depending on the ethnicity of the victims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except, if you read rylah's post, you would see that it is NOT based on ethnicity, but on circumstance.
> 
> This is an extremely nuanced conversation.  There are a number of complicated subjects involved:
> 
> 
> What is the intent of return?
> What is the ideology fueling return?
> Can we and should we right "past wrongs"?
> How far back should we go?
> What would be considered a "wrong"?
> Does the process of decolonization require expulsion?
> Is expulsion ever justified?  If so, under what circumstances?
> Can return of conquerers, even by legal means, be considered a re-conquest?
> 
> There is a lot to unpack here.
Click to expand...


Yes.  There is.  But is that nuance present in Rylah’s post?  It reads more along the lines of the all to common Muslims are evil” theme.

Now any demand coming from IS is not to be taken seriously and the obvious agenda is obvious IS). 


 But underneath that is more complex since I doubt IS realizes that one of the main targets of expulsion were Moriscos, who were Muslims who were converted forceably, by royal decree to Christianity.  Seems descendants of that group are the ones asking for the same rights as the Jews, but so far with little success.  The irony is IS would kill people like that.

Your questions are good ones.

What is the intent of return?
Good question

What is the ideology fueling return?
Also a good question

Can we and should we right "past wrongs"?
Complicated question...as you put it before and I agree, we can’t unscramble eggs

How far back should we go?
Exactly.  What is the magic date?

What would be considered a "wrong"?
Also a good question, and add to that how to you go about judging things that occurred under a completely different culture, set of norms and values than we have today?

Does the process of decolonization require expulsion?
No.  And imo, “decolonization is as much a crime as “Colonization” since involves violating the rights of long settled and now native peoples.  That would be attempting to unscramble eggs.

Is expulsion ever justified?  If so, under what circumstances?
As a group, no.  Once  justified...it become easier and easier to justify for less and less. 

Can return of conquerers, even by legal means, be considered a re-conquest? 
Hard to answer.  For example, is simply being the same ethnicity as a group that one conquered another thousands of years ago means they are the same?  And how far back do you go?  Many peoples exist where they are because they conquered some one else.  You can’t untangle all of that.

I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.  The only “right” is what a state chooses to grant a group.

But if you are trying to right a wrong, the Moriscos, forceably converted, distrusted and attacked by both Christians and Muslims in Spain, and expelled would certainly seem to qualify.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Yes.  There is.  But is that nuance present in Rylah’s post?


Not especially.  But it isn't in yours either.  



> It reads more along the lines of the all to common Muslims are evil” theme.


No, it doesn't.  He specifically used the term "Islamist", indicating he is speaking of a very distinct group of extremists.  



> Now any demand coming from IS is not to be taken seriously ...


IS as in Islamic State?  On the contrary, they should be taken very seriously.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.



I both agree and disagree with this.

On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.  

On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.  

I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  There is.  But is that nuance present in Rylah’s post?
> 
> 
> 
> Not especially.  But it isn't in yours either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It reads more along the lines of the all to common Muslims are evil” theme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it doesn't.  He specifically used the term "Islamist", indicating he is speaking of a very distinct group of extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now any demand coming from IS is not to be taken seriously ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IS as in Islamic State?  On the contrary, they should be taken very seriously.
Click to expand...

No.  What was not taken seriously was a demand of a right of return.

And no...he used the term Islamist buddies, referring to historic Muslims, putting ISIS in the same category as historic Muslims, his distinct group was in reality very broad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Heart-wrenching: Family of the Palestinian martyr Alaa Hamdan after they bade farewell to him in the hospital morgue. Alaa was shot and killed by an Israeli sniper in the Great March of Return protests in Gaza today.4


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Heart-wrenching: Family of the Palestinian martyr Alaa Hamdan after they bade farewell to him in the hospital morgue. Alaa was shot and killed by an Israeli sniper in the Great March of Return protests in Gaza today.4



Why did he deliberately put himself in harm's way?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I both agree and disagree with this.
> 
> On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
Click to expand...


It makes sense but it still seems problematic...maybe you could elaborate.  

Are "collective rights to self determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.

The only "collective right" is that which the state grants.  If there were no state of Israel to grant that right to the Jews, it would not exist.  That sort of applies to all collective rights of return imo.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I both agree and disagree with this.
> 
> On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It makes sense but it still seems problematic...maybe you could elaborate.
> 
> Are "collective rights to self determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
Click to expand...


Self-determination has to MEAN something, right?  It is intended for a peoples of a specific culture, originating on that territory, to create a space where that particular culture colors the landscape.  Its values, its language, its holiday celebrations, its particular rhythm of life, its ideology is the ice cream flavor of the day, every day.  Right?  Otherwise the entire idea of self-determination has no value. 

(This doesn't mean that other cultures are unable to practice and live their culture.  And their culture should be protected, but that its just not the color of the sky, you know?)

So, given that the goal is two states (likely actually four) -- each with their own color -- the collective right of return involves returning to the state which offers your color.  It gives people the collective right to live under their own sky.  

Individuals who would rather return to their own specific home, would have individual rights to do so.  But their descendants would not. 

Clear?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*RALLY IN DETROIT WITH REP. TLAIB*

Rally starts @ 30:00.

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

The entrance of Al-Khader Church, northeast of Ramallah, which was built in the fifth century AD and is one of the oldest churches in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians protest against the confiscation of their land for Jewish settlements near Beit Jala, West Bank. Photo by Mosab Shawer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian father and his little daughter sit on the ruins of their home which was demolished by Israeli occupation forces today morning in al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> The entrance of Al-Khader Church, northeast of Ramallah, which was built in the fifth century AD and is one of the oldest churches in Palestine.



Too bad Christians are being forced out of the Palestinian territories.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,

I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.

◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.  

◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​


Coyote said:


> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, even if there were such a "right," it is not a "right" the is past → familia-generation to familia-generation.



Shusha said:


> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to the retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?


[/quote]
*(COMMENT)*

Yes, the rights _[of "return" - and (collective) to self-determination)]_ are not the same thing and they are not dependent _(on the other) _rights. 



Coyote said:


> Are "collective rights to self-determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> That sort of applies to all collective rights of return IMO.


*(COMMENT)*

*Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights*

What is the practical difference between a "collective right"  and the "right of all peoples?"  


.......... 

 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,
> 
> I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.
> 
> ◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.
> 
> ◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, even if there were such a "right," it is not a "right" the is past → familia-generation to familia-generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to the retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes, the rights _[of "return" - and (collective) to self-determination)]_ are not the same thing and they are not dependent _(on the other) _rights.



Coyote said:


> Are "collective rights to self-determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> That sort of applies to all collective rights of return IMO.


*(COMMENT)*

*Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights*

What is the practical difference between a "collective right"  and the "right of all peoples?"


.......... 


Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> ◈ And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."


One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.

Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.

Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,
> 
> I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.
> 
> ◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.
> 
> ◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, even if there were such a "right," it is not a "right" the is past → familia-generation to familia-generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to the retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, the rights _[of "return" - and (collective) to self-determination)]_ are not the same thing and they are not dependent _(on the other) _rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are "collective rights to self-determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> That sort of applies to all collective rights of return IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights*
> 
> What is the practical difference between a "collective right"  and the "right of all peoples?"
> 
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."


One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.

Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.

Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.[/QUOTE]

Oh, get over it already.  My parents were refugees from Poland.  Do you know how many refugees there were from India, Pakistan, many countries from Europe after WW2?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,
> 
> I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.
> 
> ◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.
> 
> ◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, even if there were such a "right," it is not a "right" the is past → familia-generation to familia-generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to the retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, the rights _[of "return" - and (collective) to self-determination)]_ are not the same thing and they are not dependent _(on the other) _rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are "collective rights to self-determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> That sort of applies to all collective rights of return IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights*
> 
> What is the practical difference between a "collective right"  and the "right of all peoples?"
> 
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
Click to expand...


Oh, get over it already.  My parents were refugees from Poland.  Do you know how many refugees there were from India, Pakistan, many countries from Europe after WW2?[/QUOTE]
So, that doesn't change anything.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, this has been repeated so many times, that it has become very distorted.



P F Tinmore said:


> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​So, that doesn't change anything.


*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the Middle East and the former territory of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, this was taken into account in Article 30, Treaty of Lausanne:



			
				Section II • NATIONALITY • Article 30 said:
			
		

> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.




Basically, what this says is that → as an example scenario:  I live in Ohio which borders Canada.  I _(not my children who live in PA and KY)_ own my own home.  If the US were to transfer the political sovereignty of Ohio to Canada, I would still own my land; BUT, my nationality would transfer in with the land.

The way in which you from your statement is misleading and very elementary.  This scenario I render demonstrates that I "belong" to the land and my nationality follows the land.

......... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this has been repeated so many times, that it has become very distorted.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​So, that doesn't change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Middle East and the former territory of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, this was taken into account in Article 30, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II • NATIONALITY • Article 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, what this says is that → as an example scenario:  I live in Ohio which borders Canada.  I _(not my children who live in PA and KY)_ own my own home.  If the US were to transfer the political sovereignty of Ohio to Canada, I would still own my land; BUT, my nationality would transfer in with the land.
> 
> The way in which you from your statement is misleading and very elementary.  This scenario I render demonstrates that I "belong" to the land and my nationality follows the land.
> 
> .........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes *a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory,* making them citizens of that territory. It is therefore imperative to examine the boundaries of Palestine in order to define the piece of land on which Palestinian nationality was established.

*The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. *In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
---------------------------
Nobody can explain how the Palestinians have less rights than any other people.


----------



## rylah

> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,
> 
> I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.
> 
> ◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.
> 
> ◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, even if there were such a "right," it is not a "right" the is past → familia-generation to familia-generation.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to the retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, the rights _[of "return" - and (collective) to self-determination)]_ are not the same thing and they are not dependent _(on the other) _rights.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are "collective rights to self-determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> That sort of applies to all collective rights of return IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *Individual Rights vs. Collective Rights*
> 
> What is the practical difference between a "collective right"  and the "right of all peoples?"
> 
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



Well I might not know enough of the details regarding these concepts, to which You might enlighten me, and certainly will not pretend to like Tinnie does each time giving his "legal opinion"...but from a short research these concepts of "Right of return", definition of who are to be considered a people, and the mere "right to self-determination" (and their levels of manifestation in application) all seem to dwell in some green area between a variety of crossing philosophies still being in discussion, rather than concretely set in stone.

Seems to me this grey area is a fertile ground on which the Arab propaganda flourishes to manipulate the public discourse - choosing certain parts of these philosophies as if they were set in stone while denying the existence of others to spread disinformation. Much like the reliance on those UN resolutions while ignoring they're not at all binding laws.

Needless to say, it seems unlikely the Arab governments would follow any of those in practice, in case it favors the sovereignty of the Nation of Israel.

That said, please explain, what definite validity do they have in given case?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I both agree and disagree with this.
> 
> On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It makes sense but it still seems problematic...maybe you could elaborate.
> 
> Are "collective rights to self determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self-determination has to MEAN something, right?  It is intended for a peoples of a specific culture, originating on that territory, to create a space where that particular culture colors the landscape.  Its values, its language, its holiday celebrations, its particular rhythm of life, its ideology is the ice cream flavor of the day, every day.  Right?  Otherwise the entire idea of self-determination has no value.
> 
> (This doesn't mean that other cultures are unable to practice and live their culture.  And their culture should be protected, but that its just not the color of the sky, you know?)
> 
> So, given that the goal is two states (likely actually four) -- each with their own color -- the collective right of return involves returning to the state which offers your color.  It gives people the collective right to live under their own sky.
> 
> Individuals who would rather return to their own specific home, would have individual rights to do so.  But their descendants would not.
> 
> Clear?
Click to expand...

Yes, that clarifies it.  But I dont agree, because I don't agree that there is any collective right of return beyond what a state is willing to give.


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this has been repeated so many times, that it has become very distorted.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​So, that doesn't change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Middle East and the former territory of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, this was taken into account in Article 30, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II • NATIONALITY • Article 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, what this says is that → as an example scenario:  I live in Ohio which borders Canada.  I _(not my children who live in PA and KY)_ own my own home.  If the US were to transfer the political sovereignty of Ohio to Canada, I would still own my land; BUT, my nationality would transfer in with the land.
> 
> The way in which you from your statement is misleading and very elementary.  This scenario I render demonstrates that I "belong" to the land and my nationality follows the land.
> 
> .........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Again this discussion about "Right of Return" seems to be merely misinformation by the Arab propaganda, relying on the false notion that such even exists, conflating it to granting citizenship privileges to certain groups as normally practiced in many nation states like Ireland, Greece etc, and in this case merely copying the name it was given under Israeli law to this practice, while no such right or  binding law actually existing that could force a nation except those whom they have no interest in providing that privilege, for each nations' specific reasons.

Does this right actually exist, or is it another matter of grey area taken for granted?


----------



## Coyote

The right only exists in so far as the state is willing to grant it in so far as Ireland does or Israel does.  And presumably if the Palestinians ever get autonomy they could legislate that same right in what ever state they control but imo it doesnt exist as a right outside of that.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this has been repeated so many times, that it has become very distorted.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​So, that doesn't change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Middle East and the former territory of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, this was taken into account in Article 30, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II • NATIONALITY • Article 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, what this says is that → as an example scenario:  I live in Ohio which borders Canada.  I _(not my children who live in PA and KY)_ own my own home.  If the US were to transfer the political sovereignty of Ohio to Canada, I would still own my land; BUT, my nationality would transfer in with the land.
> 
> The way in which you from your statement is misleading and very elementary.  This scenario I render demonstrates that I "belong" to the land and my nationality follows the land.
> 
> .........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again this discussion about "Right of Return" seems to be merely misinformation by the Arab propaganda, relying on the false notion that such even exists, conflating it to granting citizenship privileges to certain groups as normally practiced in many nation states like Ireland, Greece etc, and in this case merely copying the name it was given under Israeli law to this practice, while no such right or  binding law actually existing that could force a nation except those whom they have no interest in providing that privilege, for each nations' specific reasons.
> 
> Does this right actually exist, or is it another matter of grey area taken for granted?
Click to expand...


Let me add to this ^^^^

that in practice, in the reality of the middle eastern conflicts, it's unlikely that even if such concepts are accepted by the western community, will be fully or if at all respected in the region, and most probably denied under Tinnie's favorite excuse to deny Jews any form of independence as - "foreign intervention".

Furthermore given the clear bias against Israel, whether it follows any of these concepts or not, any of their actions or decisions in relation to the Arab governments will be automatically deemed "illegal"; While none of them were or will be demanded from the Arab side in the opposite direction.

Therefore what is left is to discuss the real concepts, and cultural archetypes that influence the development on the ground and stay in contradiction to (what seems to me) most of the modern Western concepts according to which various solutions are measured.

Specifically the concept under Jewish Law - of specific land forever belonging to a specific nation only , regardless of who might have invaded it and inhabits in any given time. This in a way resembles the modern western understanding of the status of indigenous cultures in their lands of origin, however with rare exception, remains only as intellectual concept.

And the dual Arab Muslim concept - of 'Dar al-Islam' and 'Dar al-Harb', meaning land already governed under Muslim rule, vs land not yet dominated that is under a non-Muslim rule. However with that also comes a clause which allows specifically only Arab rule in the Arabian peninsula.

Therefore the question should be rather -  can these 3 systems of law practically come to terms,
and in what way?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian father and his little daughter sit on the ruins of their home which was demolished by Israeli occupation forces today morning in al-Khalil.



*This is not Al-Khalil/ Hebron*, probably some random picture as usually used by the Arab propaganda, like they usually do to gain sympathy under false premises.

Demolition of houses, usually only parts of them (as will be explained further), are conducted in response to murder of Israelis for deterrence, and simply as a way to bring minimal justice, which is why usually only the specific rooms of the murderers are demolished while keeping the rest standing, as seen behind the ruins in the picture above.

This is also probably the reason why no names are mentioned, and why you never provide links in such posts, that would usually expose much more than needed for these Arab propaganda pieces to have any effect on the naive and uninformed.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians protest against the confiscation of their land for Jewish settlements near Beit Jala, West Bank. Photo by Mosab Shawer.



Level of credibility - some guys who get 50$ for holding a placard.

However there bears a simple question - why is it fine for Arabs to settle the land and not the Jews?

I won't hold my breath expecting an answer...


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  There is.  But is that nuance present in Rylah’s post?
> 
> 
> 
> Not especially.  But it isn't in yours either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It reads more along the lines of the all to common Muslims are evil” theme.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it doesn't.  He specifically used the term "Islamist", indicating he is speaking of a very distinct group of extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now any demand coming from IS is not to be taken seriously ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IS as in Islamic State?  On the contrary, they should be taken very seriously.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  What was not taken seriously was a demand of a right of return.
> 
> And no...he used the term Islamist buddies, referring to historic Muslims, putting ISIS in the same category as historic Muslims, his distinct group was in reality very broad.
Click to expand...


Well, I can't take seriously something that doesn't exist,
especially under the circumstance.

And yes I specifically used the term "Islamists", to give the context to what might be the considerations of the king of Spain in refusing those demands.

If all you can do is reserve to strawman arguments, and invent new terms ("historic Muslims" - what does it even mean regarding Spain??) to deny the concerns of European societies in dealing with (i)mmigration from the middle east, then I can only assume you're either totally ignorant of reality and history, or simply motivated by disrespect to anyone who, for natural reason, doesn't buy into your manipulation of identity politics in blind faith, for the sake of their own people.

But let's assume this term you've just invented - "Historic Muslims" actually was in use and meaningful.
The term itself provides more backing to the king's decision, rather than your defense of this claim for "Right of Return" to the African Muslims who actually demand it.

For the simple reason that "Historic Muslims" could rationally only be applied to those Muslims who belong to any of the original Arab tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, the historic origin of Islam, who were the only Muslims in history, at the time predating the invasion and colonization by the Caliphate Empire to the entire middle east, Asia and parts of Europe, while forcefully converting or totally erasing most (if not whole) indigenous populations and cultures on their way, were the only

You might blame anyone who disagrees and insist on denying that, but once nations expel their invaders and regain independence, they tend to not want have anything with those who tried to subjugate them.

And if you don't like to deal with the history of Muslim invasions to others' lands, that's just your issue to deal with, and nothing to be blamed on the government of Spain or anyone who faced a similar history.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I both agree and disagree with this.
> 
> On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It makes sense but it still seems problematic...maybe you could elaborate.
> 
> Are "collective rights to self determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self-determination has to MEAN something, right?  It is intended for a peoples of a specific culture, originating on that territory, to create a space where that particular culture colors the landscape.  Its values, its language, its holiday celebrations, its particular rhythm of life, its ideology is the ice cream flavor of the day, every day.  Right?  Otherwise the entire idea of self-determination has no value.
> 
> (This doesn't mean that other cultures are unable to practice and live their culture.  And their culture should be protected, but that its just not the color of the sky, you know?)
> 
> So, given that the goal is two states (likely actually four) -- each with their own color -- the collective right of return involves returning to the state which offers your color.  It gives people the collective right to live under their own sky.
> 
> Individuals who would rather return to their own specific home, would have individual rights to do so.  But their descendants would not.
> 
> Clear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that clarifies it.  But I dont agree, because I don't agree that there is any collective right of return beyond what a state is willing to give.
Click to expand...


Sure. You are thinking of return as something which can happen only after self-determination and sovereignty has been achieved. 

While I’m suggesting for a people with a large Diaspora it can be part of the process of achieving self-determination.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Coyote, Shusha, et al,
> 
> I have to be supportive of "Coyote's" position.
> 
> ◈  As has been pointed out many times → the principle of "self-determination" been mentioned in the  UN Charter (1945) as mentioned in Articles 2(1) and 55 are generally considered to be too vague to provide a right to self-determination.
> 
> ◈  And I can find no body of binding law that unconditionally obligates a state to honor the "Right of Return."​


​


Yes.  I agree.  I'm speaking of general principles rather than specific legal documents and statements.  The principle of self-determination is fairly well accepted by the international community as a guiding principle.  But it has not been entrenched in law for a number of reasons, the most difficult of which is the tension between it and the principle of territorial integrity (which IS entrenched in law in a number of documents, including the constitutions of most countries.  See the issues with Quebec/Canada and Catalonia/Spain).  Other problems include defining a "people"; determining their attachment to a territory; whether self-determination means some sort of limited self-government or must include sovereignty and Statehood.  

So my previous answer was an attempt to clarify some of these difficulties, personally.  Part of the reason why the conflict between Israel and some sort of self-determining Arab Palestine has gone on as long as it has is that it is a test case for resolving some of these complex, competing and changing principles.  

As far as I am aware, there is no "right" to return to be found anywhere in specific law.  The closest anything comes are laws concerning refugees, but that in no way guarantees a "right" to return.  Return is merely offered as one of several solutions to re-settling refugees and, of course, we know, does not apply to descendants.  

(No, Tinmore, don't post the Susan Akram video AGAIN.  We know.  And I disagree with her.  If you want to argue some of her points do so.  But posting the video AGAIN is a waste of everyone's time and should be considered spamming.)


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.



Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.  

The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Nationality constitutes *a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory,* making them citizens of that territory.



Nope, nope.  Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific STATE, which holds sovereignty over a territory, making them citizens of that STATE.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Yes, that clarifies it.  But I dont agree, because I don't agree that there is any collective right of return beyond what a state is willing to give.



Well, yes, I agree.  States are the actors on the world stage.  They are the ones who can "do" things.

But I would find it morally problematic, if, for example, a State of Palestine refused to permit Arab Palestinians, say those living in refugee camps in Lebanon, to return to Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Therefore what is left is to discuss the real concepts, and cultural archetypes that influence the development on the ground and stay in contradiction to (what seems to me) most of the modern Western concepts according to which various solutions are measured.
> 
> Specifically the concept under Jewish Law - of specific land forever belonging to a specific nation only , regardless of who might have invaded it and inhabits in any given time. This in a way resembles the modern western understanding of the status of indigenous cultures in their lands of origin, however with rare exception, remains only as intellectual concept.
> 
> And the dual Arab Muslim concept - of 'Dar al-Islam' and 'Dar al-Harb', meaning land already governed under Muslim rule, vs land not yet dominated that is under a non-Muslim rule. However with that also comes a clause which allows specifically only Arab rule in the Arabian peninsula.
> 
> Therefore the question should be rather -  can these 3 systems of law practically come to terms,
> and in what way?



This is a very good point and good subject for discussion.  I think one of the issues in the UN right now is that the preeminence of "Western thinking" is sliding away, with the balance of power coming into an entirely different cultural point of reference and set of values.  

I'm going to think on this.  Thanks, rylah.


----------



## Ropey

“Hamas is a terrorist organization that oppresses the Palestinian people in Gaza through intimidation and outright violence, while inciting violence against Israel.”


----------



## Ropey

#1876 = The days of the youth 'Avera Mengistu' in Hamas's captivity.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.
Click to expand...

You touched on some basic principles.

I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.

Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Nobody is dancing around the issue.  You are attempting to use this "people belong to the land" as some sort of authority to the Arab Palestinian superior claim to the sovereign territory and "Right of Return."   

IF anyone → it is YOU that is dancing around the issue.  

You could lay the entire issue to rest by submitting the specific citation in Law, Binding Resolution by enforcement date, Convention, Treaty, etc, that gives the "Right of Return" as a universal obligation that requires a controlling nation to surrender territory. 

Citing documents my ass.



P F Tinmore said:


> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.


*(COMMENT)*

You have NOT done it.   Why, because it does NOT exist.    Whereas, I provided you the binding citation
Adopted and opened for accession in General Assembly Resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966; well before the creation of the PLO by Palestine National Charter of 1968.  And Israel established effective control over the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1967, well before the League of Arab States established the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated" (1974).

◈  What Palestinian territory has been liberated?​
The Palestinians have not liberated any territory; even by their own standards.

.......... 

 
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nobody is dancing around the issue.  You are attempting to use this "people belong to the land" as some sort of authority to the Arab Palestinian superior claim to the sovereign territory and "Right of Return."
> 
> IF anyone → it is YOU that is dancing around the issue.
> 
> You could lay the entire issue to rest by submitting the specific citation in Law, Binding Resolution by enforcement date, Convention, Treaty, etc, that gives the "Right of Return" as a universal obligation that requires a controlling nation to surrender territory.
> 
> Citing documents my ass.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You have NOT done it.   Why, because it does NOT exist.    Whereas, I provided you the binding citation
> Adopted and opened for accession in General Assembly Resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966; well before the creation of the PLO by Palestine National Charter of 1968.  And Israel established effective control over the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1967, well before the League of Arab States established the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated" (1974).
> 
> ◈  What Palestinian territory has been liberated?​The Palestinians have not liberated any territory; even by their own standards.
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> And Israel established effective control over the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1967,


Effective control is a term used to define an occupation.

https://www.un.org/en/development/d...docs/globalcompact/A_RES_2200A(XXI)_civil.pdf

This supports the Palestinians more than Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib Officially Endorses Bernie Sanders*

Rashida Tlaib for VP?

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.



Well, I don't know where it is, exactly, that you have posted all these documents because I haven't seen them.  I certainly haven't seen the primary source material.  Please clarify.

However, do NOT post anything which supports:

that borders, when not specified in peace treaties, generally follow the previous territorial borders
that the borders haven't changed since after the end of the 1948 war
that citizens generally adopt or follow the change in sovereignty
that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination
Why?  Because I AGREE with you already on all of these points. 


Also, do not bother to post:

anything about UNGA 194 as the source of a right of return in perpetuity
Why?  Because its not sufficient, imo, for such a MAJOR change in customary law.


----------



## rylah

*PA BANS LGBTQ ACTIVITIES IN WEST BANK*
*The ban came after LGBTQ group Al-Qaws was planing to hold a gathering for its members in Nablus.*

The Palestinian Authority banned members of the Palestinian Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ) community from carrying out any activities in the West Bank.

The ban came after the grassroots group Al-Qaws for Sexual & Gender Diversity in Palestinian Society (Arabic for “the bow”), which engages and supports Palestinians who identify as LGBTQ, was planning to hold a gathering for its members in Nablus at the end of the month. The group operates both in the West Bank and among Arab-Israelis.

Earlier this month, Al-Qaws held an event in Nablus about sexual and gender diversity in Palestinian society. The PA police, however, learned about the event only days after it was held.

Al-Qaws is a civil society organization established in 2001 with the goal of “fighting for vibrant Palestinian cultural and social change, building LGBTQ communities and promoting new ideas about the role of gender and sexual diversity in political activism, civil society institutions, media, and everyday life.”

The group has offices only in east Jerusalem and Haifa.

Explaining the decision to ban the LGBTQ group from operating in PA-controlled areas, Luay Zreikat, spokesperson for the PA Police, said that such activities are “harmful to the higher values and ideals of Palestinian society.”

Zreikat said that the group’s activities were completely “unrelated to religions and Palestinian traditions and customs, especially in the city of Nablus.”

He accused unnamed “dubious parties” of working to “create discord and harm civic peace in Palestinian society.”

The PA police will chase those behind the LGBTQ group and see to it that they are brought to trial once they are arrested, Zreikat warned. He further appealed to Palestinians to report to the police about any person connected to the group.

Full article: *PA bans LGBTQ activities in West Bank*


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have said this before, I don’t believe in any “right of return” down through the generations.  In other words, once those expelled are gone, so is any right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I both agree and disagree with this.
> 
> On the disagree side, I worry that this opens the door to abuse.  In that it creates the condition of making expulsion a viable method of removing rights from people.  We should guard against that.
> 
> On the agree side, I don't think that one should have a "right to return" to any territory or State where one or some of your ancestors once lived.  That seems a bit ridiculous to me.  On the other hand, there is a difference between forced expulsion and voluntary migration, with respect to retention of rights.
> 
> I think individual "right of return" and collective rights to self-determination are two different things and should be distinguished from each other.  Individual "right of return" can not be passed down to generations.  However, collective rights to self-determination include the right to live on the territory of that self-determination.  Did that make sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It makes sense but it still seems problematic...maybe you could elaborate.
> 
> Are "collective rights to self determination" being conflated with "collective rights to return"?  And if so...that would seem to me to then open the door for the Palestinians right to return.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self-determination has to MEAN something, right?  It is intended for a peoples of a specific culture, originating on that territory, to create a space where that particular culture colors the landscape.  Its values, its language, its holiday celebrations, its particular rhythm of life, its ideology is the ice cream flavor of the day, every day.  Right?  Otherwise the entire idea of self-determination has no value.
> 
> (This doesn't mean that other cultures are unable to practice and live their culture.  And their culture should be protected, but that its just not the color of the sky, you know?)
> 
> So, given that the goal is two states (likely actually four) -- each with their own color -- the collective right of return involves returning to the state which offers your color.  It gives people the collective right to live under their own sky.
> 
> Individuals who would rather return to their own specific home, would have individual rights to do so.  But their descendants would not.
> 
> Clear?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, that clarifies it.  But I dont agree, because I don't agree that there is any collective right of return beyond what a state is willing to give.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. You are thinking of return as something which can happen only after self-determination and sovereignty has been achieved.
> 
> While I’m suggesting for a people with a large Diaspora it can be part of the process of achieving self-determination.
Click to expand...

No...I don't think so.  I see it as entirely seperate things.  For example Spain granting Jews the right to return is entirly independent of self determination.


----------



## Ropey

For what comes?  We will say Kaddish for the Hamas terrorists killed in Gaza.

If the Arabs states really want peace with Israel:

Disarm Hezbollah
Ditto Hamas
Stop teaching in schools that Jews = vermin
Stop paying terrorists who kill Jews
Stop inciting / funding hate
Recognize Jewish history
Recognize Jews as people
Return our dead that you took while alive.

More?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that clarifies it.  But I dont agree, because I don't agree that there is any collective right of return beyond what a state is willing to give.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes, I agree.  States are the actors on the world stage.  They are the ones who can "do" things.
> 
> But I would find it morally problematic, if, for example, a State of Palestine refused to permit Arab Palestinians, say those living in refugee camps in Lebanon, to return to Palestine.
Click to expand...

Agree.  It is a moral issue, like many of these issue but not a right.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Two Points to start out with:

◈  While the term "effective control" has been used by many, to describe the extent of control, it is only used to separate it from the notions like that of "partial control" or "total control."  T he words "effective - partial - total" merely modify the notion of control.  It is not an International Legal Phrase in and by itself.

◈  The notion of "effective control" is NOT used in the *official version* of the • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) •.  Nor will you find the word "occupation" anywhere in the CCPR.  The CCPR speeks of  "effective remedy" • "effective protection" • and "effective performance •  BUT NOT "effective control."  *Your citation is faulty*.​
The phase "effective control" is NOT unique to the discussion of "occupation."

◈  *effective control*. Definition. noun. *a situation where someone owns a large number of shares in a company, but less than 50 per cent*, and so in effect controls the company because no other single shareholder can outvote him or her.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Effective control is a term used to define an occupation.
> 
> https://www.un.org/en/development/d...docs/globalcompact/A_RES_2200A(XXI)_civil.pdf
> 
> This supports the Palestinians more than Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

In your defense, I will point out the notion of "effective control" is used by the "ICRC Expert Meeting" on the Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory;" as are the notions of "effective foreign control over territory," and the concept of "indirect effective control."  But again, these are not actually independent legal terms.  They are phrases of description and adjectives which modify the word "control."

Now independently the notion of "effectiveness" can be found in the on Page 70 of the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL LAW.  And you will notice its use  in the application to the condition of "Occupation."



			
				Encyclopedia of Public International Law • Volume 7 said:
			
		

> A - State in international law only exists if its governmental power is an effective one, i.e. if it is able to enforce its decisions inside the governed territory (- Territorial Sovereignty); only the effective occupation of a territory creates rights of the occupying State, i.e. the State must factually be able to govern the territory concerned
> (- Occupation, Belligerent).





I have asked you many times what control _(or what sovereignty)_ do the Arab Palestinians maintain over what territory?

.......... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know where it is, exactly, that you have posted all these documents because I haven't seen them.  I certainly haven't seen the primary source material.  Please clarify.
> 
> However, do NOT post anything which supports:
> 
> that borders, when not specified in peace treaties, generally follow the previous territorial borders
> that the borders haven't changed since after the end of the 1948 war
> that citizens generally adopt or follow the change in sovereignty
> that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination
> Why?  Because I AGREE with you already on all of these points.
> 
> 
> Also, do not bother to post:
> 
> anything about UNGA 194 as the source of a right of return in perpetuity
> Why?  Because its not sufficient, imo, for such a MAJOR change in customary law.
Click to expand...

I'm glad we agree on some issues.

BTW, resolution 194 was written with strict adherence to international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Two Points to start out with:
> 
> ◈  While the term "effective control" has been used by many, to describe the extent of control, it is only used to separate it from the notions like that of "partial control" or "total control."  T he words "effective - partial - total" merely modify the notion of control.  It is not an International Legal Phrase in and by itself.
> 
> ◈  The notion of "effective control" is NOT used in the *official version* of the • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) •.  Nor will you find the word "occupation" anywhere in the CCPR.  The CCPR speeks of  "effective remedy" • "effective protection" • and "effective performance •  BUT NOT "effective control."  *Your citation is faulty*.​
> The phase "effective control" is NOT unique to the discussion of "occupation."
> 
> ◈  *effective control*. Definition. noun. *a situation where someone owns a large number of shares in a company, but less than 50 per cent*, and so in effect controls the company because no other single shareholder can outvote him or her.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Effective control is a term used to define an occupation.
> 
> https://www.un.org/en/development/d...docs/globalcompact/A_RES_2200A(XXI)_civil.pdf
> 
> This supports the Palestinians more than Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In your defense, I will point out the notion of "effective control" is used by the "ICRC Expert Meeting" on the Occupation and Other Forms of Administration of Foreign Territory;" as are the notions of "effective foreign control over territory," and the concept of "indirect effective control."  But again, these are not actually independent legal terms.  They are phrases of description and adjectives which modify the word "control."
> 
> Now independently the notion of "effectiveness" can be found in the on Page 70 of the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL LAW.  And you will notice its use  in the application to the condition of "Occupation."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Encyclopedia of Public International Law • Volume 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A - State in international law only exists if its governmental power is an effective one, i.e. if it is able to enforce its decisions inside the governed territory (- Territorial Sovereignty); only the effective occupation of a territory creates rights of the occupying State, i.e. the State must factually be able to govern the territory concerned
> (- Occupation, Belligerent).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> View attachment 286914​
> I have asked you many times what control _(or what sovereignty)_ do the Arab Palestinians maintain over what territory?
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

When defining the rights of a people the control of territory is never mentioned.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know where it is, exactly, that you have posted all these documents because I haven't seen them.  I certainly haven't seen the primary source material.  Please clarify.
> 
> However, do NOT post anything which supports:
> 
> that borders, when not specified in peace treaties, generally follow the previous territorial borders
> that the borders haven't changed since after the end of the 1948 war
> that citizens generally adopt or follow the change in sovereignty
> that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination
> Why?  Because I AGREE with you already on all of these points.
> 
> 
> Also, do not bother to post:
> 
> anything about UNGA 194 as the source of a right of return in perpetuity
> Why?  Because its not sufficient, imo, for such a MAJOR change in customary law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad we agree on some issues.
> 
> BTW, resolution 194 was written with strict adherence to international law.
Click to expand...


194, though, has been stretched to breaking by the Arabs who insist it means more than it meant in customary international law at the time.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know where it is, exactly, that you have posted all these documents because I haven't seen them.  I certainly haven't seen the primary source material.  Please clarify.
> 
> However, do NOT post anything which supports:
> 
> that borders, when not specified in peace treaties, generally follow the previous territorial borders
> that the borders haven't changed since after the end of the 1948 war
> that citizens generally adopt or follow the change in sovereignty
> that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination
> Why?  Because I AGREE with you already on all of these points.
> 
> 
> Also, do not bother to post:
> 
> anything about UNGA 194 as the source of a right of return in perpetuity
> Why?  Because its not sufficient, imo, for such a MAJOR change in customary law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad we agree on some issues.
> 
> BTW, resolution 194 was written with strict adherence to international law.
Click to expand...


Okay.  So let's break down what we do agree on.  

We agree that Turkey renounced the territory referred to as Palestine.

We agree that through a complex development of the concept of self-determination in IL, the territory was set to become an independent nation, under temporary administration (but never sovereignty) of the UK under a Mandate system. 

We agree the borders of this territory were set prior to 1923 through standard practice of the time and exist, unchanged, up until today.

We agree that the territory has not been divided through any lasting, permanent treaty or agreement.

We agree the nationality of the people normally follows the changes in sovereignty.


Yes?

So what is the question?  Who has sovereignty on that territory?  And how did they obtain it?  My claim is that Israel holds sovereignty.  My claim is justified by the documents I submitted to you, as well as clear and simple facts.

1.  That the right of the Jewish people to a national homeland in that territory is an historical right to self-determination.

2.  That this right for the Jewish people has been supported by the international community for more than 100 years.  

3.  That this right has been entrenched in international legal agreements and treaties which have not and can not be abrogated, except through Israel's consent.

4.  That the territory HAS borders, as inherited from previous agreements and treaties, in compliance with normative law, from previous sovereigns (or in this case, administrators). 

5.  That those borders are confirmed through international treaties with surrounding States.

6.  That she has Declared her Independence in the normative way.

7.  That having fulfilled the requirements for sovereignty of government, population, territory and international relations, and having been accepted by the international community as a full member with all rights, obligations and privileges, acts on the world stage as an equal to all other State actors.

8.  That she exerts control over territory in the absence of any other sovereign.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know where it is, exactly, that you have posted all these documents because I haven't seen them.  I certainly haven't seen the primary source material.  Please clarify.
> 
> However, do NOT post anything which supports:
> 
> that borders, when not specified in peace treaties, generally follow the previous territorial borders
> that the borders haven't changed since after the end of the 1948 war
> that citizens generally adopt or follow the change in sovereignty
> that Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination
> Why?  Because I AGREE with you already on all of these points.
> 
> 
> Also, do not bother to post:
> 
> anything about UNGA 194 as the source of a right of return in perpetuity
> Why?  Because its not sufficient, imo, for such a MAJOR change in customary law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad we agree on some issues.
> 
> BTW, resolution 194 was written with strict adherence to international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay.  So let's break down what we do agree on.
> 
> We agree that Turkey renounced the territory referred to as Palestine.
> 
> We agree that through a complex development of the concept of self-determination in IL, the territory was set to become an independent nation, under temporary administration (but never sovereignty) of the UK under a Mandate system.
> 
> We agree the borders of this territory were set prior to 1923 through standard practice of the time and exist, unchanged, up until today.
> 
> We agree that the territory has not been divided through any lasting, permanent treaty or agreement.
> 
> We agree the nationality of the people normally follows the changes in sovereignty.
> 
> 
> Yes?
> 
> So what is the question?  Who has sovereignty on that territory?  And how did they obtain it?  My claim is that Israel holds sovereignty.  My claim is justified by the documents I submitted to you, as well as clear and simple facts.
> 
> 1.  That the right of the Jewish people to a national homeland in that territory is an historical right to self-determination.
> 
> 2.  That this right for the Jewish people has been supported by the international community for more than 100 years.
> 
> 3.  That this right has been entrenched in international legal agreements and treaties which have not and can not be abrogated, except through Israel's consent.
> 
> 4.  That the territory HAS borders, as inherited from previous agreements and treaties, in compliance with normative law, from previous sovereigns (or in this case, administrators).
> 
> 5.  That those borders are confirmed through international treaties with surrounding States.
> 
> 6.  That she has Declared her Independence in the normative way.
> 
> 7.  That having fulfilled the requirements for sovereignty of government, population, territory and international relations, and having been accepted by the international community as a full member with all rights, obligations and privileges, acts on the world stage as an equal to all other State actors.
> 
> 8.  That she exerts control over territory in the absence of any other sovereign.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Who has sovereignty on that territory? And how did they obtain it?


My question and I never get answers.


----------



## member

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Nobody is dancing around the issue.  You are attempting to use this "people belong to the land" as some sort of authority to the Arab Palestinian superior claim to the sovereign territory and "Right of Return."
> 
> IF anyone → it is YOU that is dancing around the issue.
> 
> You could lay the entire issue to rest by submitting the specific citation in Law, Binding Resolution by enforcement date, Convention, Treaty, etc, that gives the "Right of Return" as a universal obligation that requires a controlling nation to surrender territory.
> 
> Citing documents my ass.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You touched on some basic principles.
> 
> I have posted two items that specifically state that the people belong to the land. I have posted three documents that concur with this principle. I have posted documents that say that Palestinian land/borders still existed after the end of the 1948 war. I have posted UN resolutions stating that the Palestinians have the right to self determination and the right to return.
> 
> Yet people post pages of clutter trying to dance around the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You have NOT done it.   Why, because it does NOT exist.    Whereas, I provided you the binding citation
> Adopted and opened for accession in General Assembly Resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966; well before the creation of the PLO by Palestine National Charter of 1968.  And Israel established effective control over the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1967, well before the League of Arab States established the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people "in any Palestinian territory that is liberated" (1974).
> 
> ◈  What Palestinian territory has been liberated?​The Palestinians have not liberated any territory; even by their own standards.
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...






​_Let's all dance to it!_
















​


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian students stage a protest in Birzeit University in Ramallah in solidarity with the Palestinian detainee Samer al-Arabeed who is currently in a coma after being exposed to severe torture by Israeli interrogators.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



And not a single was Jew murdered by Arabs in Hebron the following 4 years.
Coincidence?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian students stage a protest in Birzeit University in Ramallah in solidarity with the Palestinian detainee Samer al-Arabeed who is currently in a coma after being exposed to severe torture by Israeli interrogators.









Oh the poor victim...
Let's just practice that sad kitten face, right?

And hope they don't find out your Jihadi filth bombed a 17 year girl to death.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> My question and I never get answers.



I LITERALLY answered it in the post you quoted.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



And may this horrific excuse for a human being always be condemned for his vile and inhumane act of terrorism.  May he serve as a singular reminder of what every Jew, and what every human being, of whatever ethnicity, must resist becoming.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Aqsa Intifada, 2000.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And may this horrific excuse for a human being always be condemned for his vile and inhumane act of terrorism.  May he serve as a singular reminder of what every Jew, and what every human being, of whatever ethnicity, must resist becoming.
Click to expand...


Dr. Baruch Goldstein HY"D prevented an Arab massacre against the Jewish community, information of which was passed to him days before the attack by the gen. Shaul Mofaz, who gathered an emergency meeting of the military and medical personnel, later of which was headed by Dr. Goldstein as officer, preparing them in advance.

It was mentioned in the Shamgar report, that Goldstein was ordered to prepare all his medical equipment and make sure there was and extra amount of supplies for that which the military intelligence seen as inevitable. It was reported in the leading newspaper Yediot Ahronot that the Iz al-Adin al-Qassam, military wing of Hamas had warned the Arab community to store food supplies for a curfew that would apply in the next few days due to a planned operation (p. 236 Shamgar report ). While sheikh Tayysir Tamimi, one of the chief sheiks of the Waqf in Hebron, openly called for murder of Jews and recruited worshipers in the Cave of the Patriarchs during those days leading to the attack (p.139). The same report mentions an article in the HaTzofeh, reporting of 2000 Arabs gathering on the entrance to the Cave screaming "Yitbah al-Yahud!" ("slaughter Jews!") preventing Jews, of whom were Dr. Goldstein and many others, from entering during the holiday of Purim, this was also the month of Ramadan.

A witness recalled Dr. Goldstein getting frustrated upon return from the Cave, and receiving another letter ordering to prepare additional supplies, he could not comprehend why he had to prepare those supplies while the military intelligence knew and just waited expecting the eminent. All matter of public record. He decided to preempt - the next day he wore his military uniform, which was the only way to enter the compound, an officer drove him to the site where he attacked preemptively. For the following 4 years no Jew was harmed in Hebron.

Dr. Goldstein was a descendant of a family that was harmed during the Hebron massacres of 1929.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...



P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, resolution 194 was written with strict adherence to international law.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh no question, the non-binding Resolution was written IAW International Law. 

◈  But then all Resolutions are created and published IAW International Law.  Having said that, the Resolution itself is not International Law.

◈  And the Resolution stipulates that:  "refugees wishing to return to their homes *and live at peace with their neighbours* should be permitted to do so..."  But the fact of the matter is that:

The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration _(Statement of 6 February 1948)_ before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​


P F Tinmore said:


> When defining the rights of a people the control of territory is never mentioned.


*(COMMENT)*

You are mixing Apples with Oranges...  I'm not sure your observation is true.   Because "rights" are defined by society.  That is why there are so many different kinds of "rights," and why the rights of the citizen vary from nation to nation, or from religion to religion.

....... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ And the Resolution stipulates that: "refugees wishing to return to their homes *and live at peace with their neighbours* should be permitted to do so..." But the fact of the matter is that:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration _(Statement of 6 February 1948)_ before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.


There was no partition.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ And the Resolution stipulates that: "refugees wishing to return to their homes *and live at peace with their neighbours* should be permitted to do so..." But the fact of the matter is that:
> 
> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration _(Statement of 6 February 1948)_ before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no partition.
Click to expand...







"Earth is flat, sky is pink... and the Arabs didn't get 80% of the land intended for Jews."


----------



## rylah

Anti-Zionism, not antisemitism right?


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Authority bans Arab LGBT community activities *
*A PA Police spokesman said such activities are"detrimental" to the "ideals of Palestinian society"*

The Palestinian Authority has banned members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community from carrying out activities in the West Bank.

The ban comes after the Al-Qaws group, which supports the Palestinian LGBT community, planned to hold a rally for its members in Nablus at the end of the month. The group operates both in the West Bank and Israel.

Earlier this month, Al-Qaws organized an event in Nablus on sexual and gender diversity in Palestinian society. The Palestinian Authority (PA) police did not intervene, having learned of the event only days after it was held.

Explaining the prohibition, PA Police spokesman Luay Zreikat said such activities are "detrimental to the values and ideals of Palestinian society."

Zreikat added that the group's activities were antithetical to "Palestinian religion, traditions and customs, particularly in the city of Nablus".

He also accused unidentified "dubious parties" of having worked to "create discord and undermine civil peace."





*Palestinian Authority bans Arab LGBT community activities in West Bank*

Because nothing else could better express those "liberal progressive values"...right?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> There was no partition.


*(COMMENT)*

And it is making statements such as this, where your credibility comes into question. 

No matter what you might think of the political-military devices or action in use at the time _(and up through today)_, or any outcome of conflict since the establishment of Israel, the fact of the matter is →  there are in fact partitions in play today; temporary as they may be.

I'm not even going to bother inserting a map for you to reject out of hand.  But the territory formerly administered under the Mandate for Palestine, and short-titled "Palestine" by the Palestine Order in Council, has been the terrain over which several unsuccessful Arab military conflicts have been fought.  Each conflict in the name of the Arab Palestinian, to establish the entirety of "Palestine" as the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people has been *totally unsuccessful and ultimately counterproductive*.  Each successive outbreak of hostilities resulted in a gradual reduction in territory that might have been open to become an additional Arab State as described in Part II • Boundaries, Section A • The Arab State, UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II).
....... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no partition.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And it is making statements such as this, where your credibility comes into question.
> 
> No matter what you might think of the political-military devices or action in use at the time _(and up through today)_, or any outcome of conflict since the establishment of Israel, the fact of the matter is →  there are in fact partitions in play today; temporary as they may be.
> 
> I'm not even going to bother inserting a map for you to reject out of hand.  But the territory formerly administered under the Mandate for Palestine, and short-titled "Palestine" by the Palestine Order in Council, has been the terrain over which several unsuccessful Arab military conflicts have been fought.  Each conflict in the name of the Arab Palestinian, to establish the entirety of "Palestine" as the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people has been *totally unsuccessful and ultimately counterproductive*.  Each successive outbreak of hostilities resulted in a gradual reduction in territory that might have been open to become an additional Arab State as described in Part II • Boundaries, Section A • The Arab State, UN Resolution A/RES/181 (II).
> .......
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the fact of the matter is → there are in fact partitions in play today; temporary as they may be.


Created at the point of a gun not by treaty which is illegal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ISRAEL – THE ORIGIN OF TERRORISM
Malaysia cannot cannot accept the blatant seizure of Palestine land by Israel for their settlements as well as the occupation of Jerusalem by Israel. The Palestinians cannot even enter the settlements built on their land.
Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> There was no partition.





RoccoR said:


> the fact of the matter is → there are in fact partitions in play today; temporary as they may be.





P F Tinmore said:


> Created at the point of a gun not by treaty which is illegal.


*(COMMENT)*

Your position that the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic had no right to renounces all rights and title of the territory over to the Allied Powers → "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned" is fundamentally wrong.

Once you get past this point, you will understand that the Arab Palestinian struggle over the territorial remnants amounts to an act of cession:

*Cession:* When a state transfers its territory to another state, acquisition by cession takes place in favour of such later state. The cession of territory maybe voluntary or maybe under compulsion as a result of war. The act of cession maybe even in the nature of a gift, sale, exchange or lease. Cession is the transfer of territory usually by treaty from one state to another. e.g France cession of Louisiana to U.S in 1803.
cession of Alaska. Purchases of Alaska by U.S (from Russia in 1867).​
The Arab Palestinians have not had any rights or title to the territory for more than a thousand years.

....... 


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no partition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fact of the matter is → there are in fact partitions in play today; temporary as they may be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Created at the point of a gun not by treaty which is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your position that the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic had no right to renounces all rights and title of the territory over to the Allied Powers → "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned" is fundamentally wrong.
> 
> Once you get past this point, you will understand that the Arab Palestinian struggle over the territorial remnants amounts to an act of cession:
> 
> *Cession:* When a state transfers its territory to another state, acquisition by cession takes place in favour of such later state. The cession of territory maybe voluntary or maybe under compulsion as a result of war. The act of cession maybe even in the nature of a gift, sale, exchange or lease. Cession is the transfer of territory usually by treaty from one state to another. e.g France cession of Louisiana to U.S in 1803.
> cession of Alaska. Purchases of Alaska by U.S (from Russia in 1867).​
> The Arab Palestinians have not had any rights or title to the territory for more than a thousand years.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Arab Palestinians have not had any rights or title to the territory for more than a thousand years.


Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian shepherd and his flock of sheep in the Jordan Valley.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An Israeli bulldozer demolishes a Palestinian home in Dura town, al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians perform noon prayer outside al-Aqsa Mosque after Israeli occupation forces closed all gates of the holy site today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Turkish president Recep Erdogan holds a picture of a time-lapsed map of Occupied Palestine during his speech at the United Nations General Assembly to show how Israel has been expanding on Palestinian territories over the past decades.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths hurl stones at Israeli military jeeps during a raid on Ramallah City this afternoon.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And may this horrific excuse for a human being always be condemned for his vile and inhumane act of terrorism.  May he serve as a singular reminder of what every Jew, and what every human being, of whatever ethnicity, must resist becoming.
Click to expand...


Too bad that isn't a universal sentiment these days. And yes - what every human being - it doesn't matter who.  There have been too many similar incidents around the world in the past few years.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, this has been repeated so many times, that it has become very distorted.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​So, that doesn't change anything.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the case of the Middle East and the former territory of the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, this was taken into account in Article 30, Treaty of Lausanne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Section II • NATIONALITY • Article 30 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, what this says is that → as an example scenario:  I live in Ohio which borders Canada.  I _(not my children who live in PA and KY)_ own my own home.  If the US were to transfer the political sovereignty of Ohio to Canada, I would still own my land; BUT, my nationality would transfer in with the land.
> 
> The way in which you from your statement is misleading and very elementary.  This scenario I render demonstrates that I "belong" to the land and my nationality follows the land.
> 
> .........
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again this discussion about "Right of Return" seems to be merely misinformation by the Arab propaganda, relying on the false notion that such even exists, conflating it to granting citizenship privileges to certain groups as normally practiced in many nation states like Ireland, Greece etc, and in this case merely copying the name it was given under Israeli law to this practice, while no such right or  binding law actually existing that could force a nation except those whom they have no interest in providing that privilege, for each nations' specific reasons.
> 
> Does this right actually exist, or is it another matter of grey area taken for granted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me add to this ^^^^
> 
> that in practice, in the reality of the middle eastern conflicts, it's unlikely that even if such concepts are accepted by the western community, will be fully or if at all respected in the region, and most probably denied under Tinnie's favorite excuse to deny Jews any form of independence as - "foreign intervention".
> 
> Furthermore given the clear bias against Israel, whether it follows any of these concepts or not, any of their actions or decisions in relation to the Arab governments will be automatically deemed "illegal"; While none of them were or will be demanded from the Arab side in the opposite direction.
> 
> Therefore what is left is to discuss the real concepts, and cultural archetypes that influence the development on the ground and stay in contradiction to (what seems to me) most of the modern Western concepts according to which various solutions are measured.
> 
> Specifically the concept under Jewish Law - of specific land forever belonging to a specific nation only , regardless of who might have invaded it and inhabits in any given time. This in a way resembles the modern western understanding of the status of indigenous cultures in their lands of origin, however with rare exception, remains only as intellectual concept.
> 
> And the dual Arab Muslim concept - of 'Dar al-Islam' and 'Dar al-Harb', meaning land already governed under Muslim rule, vs land not yet dominated that is under a non-Muslim rule. However with that also comes a clause which allows specifically only Arab rule in the Arabian peninsula.
> 
> *Therefore the question should be rather -  can these 3 systems of law practically come to terms,
> and in what way?*
Click to expand...


Can they?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
Click to expand...


Well is it totally?

If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.  

There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?


Indeed. 

I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
Click to expand...


You’re “ forgetting “  six little words; “ Live in peace with your neighbors”

 Keep posting.!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re “ forgetting “  six little words; “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Keep posting.!
Click to expand...

How many have not?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Linda Sarsour: Bernie Won’t "Cater To AIPAC"*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians perform noon prayer outside al-Aqsa Mosque after Israeli occupation forces closed all gates of the holy site today.



Suspiciously no date and no link.
Just a random picture that cannot confirm anything,
like most of your daily nonesense copied from Arab propaganda.

What do you have to hide?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Turkish president Recep Erdogan holds a picture of a time-lapsed map of Occupied Palestine during his speech at the United Nations General Assembly to show how Israel has been expanding on Palestinian territories over the past decades.



Well, the Sultan failed to mention that non of that land was ever legally assigned for an Arab country.
But you already knew that, just keep lying knowingly.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And may this horrific excuse for a human being always be condemned for his vile and inhumane act of terrorism.  May he serve as a singular reminder of what every Jew, and what every human being, of whatever ethnicity, must resist becoming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too bad that isn't a universal sentiment these days. And yes - what every human being - it doesn't matter who.  There have been too many similar incidents around the world in the past few years.
Click to expand...


You as usual just try to make an equivalence where there's none.
We both know there's one prevailing ideology that uses holy sites as military installations, and target not only other religious groups around the world by a HUGE MARGIN, but also their own. 
And this definitely matters.

Can you show me an incident where Christians gathered in a mosque preventing Muslims from praying there during their holiday screaming in thousands "Slaughter Muslims!" while recruiting Christians in that mosque to massacre Muslims?

Can You show me an incident where Muslims gathered in a church preventing Christians from praying there during their holiday screaming in thousands "Slaughter Christians!" while recruiting Muslims in that church to massacre Christians?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
Click to expand...


You certainly may think that if you were a Caliphate invader,
who wanted to keep domination over several continents.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
Click to expand...


It depends if those refugees collaborated with an attempt to exterminate that nation, and were the enemies of the country.

Your reasoning for that "moral aspect" is in fact an example of ultimate immorality, where you try to equate an indigenous nation with that of the invading empire, that denies most basic freedom and equality to all involved in the lands they've invaded. Feelings have nothing to do with it, an imperialist invader might as well feel that because of all the effort invested, just deserves to keep their domination over several continents and subjugated nations.

The longstanding presence of a foreign Arab culture doesn't prevail over the rights of the
indigenous Hebrew culture that originated in that land. And the claim of a longstanding presence on its own doesn't provide any moral or legal rationalization, rather should always be weighed against the well-being of all involved.


----------



## Mindful

*What Are Palestinian Leaders Afraid Of?*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh
October 31, 2019 at 5:00 am*




Hamas justified the arrest of Qatoush by accusing him of "leaking security details." It is not clear how a complaint about economic hardship has turned into a security-related case. In the eyes of Hamas, however, it seems that any Palestinian who dares to complain about the bad economy in the Gaza Strip is a "traitor" and a "security threat."


From all accounts, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas are neck-and-neck in their competition to crush freedom of expression and crack down on the media.


"It is certain that the Arab Spring will arrive, sooner or later, to Palestine... The [ruling] Palestinian elite is mostly corrupt and tyrannical. With the exception of a few, the [Palestinian] elite is corrupt and incompetent -- or both." — Hani al-Masri, a prominent Palestinian political analyst, samanews.ps, October 22, 2019.


Criticism is fine, of course -- if it is directed at the Palestinians' arch-enemy, Israel. Otherwise, Palestinian journalists had best keep their criticism to themselves -- lest the PA and Hamas decide to leave them in critical condition.

What Are Palestinian Leaders Afraid Of?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Civil Rights, Community Orgs Call on SFSU to Support Rabab Abdulhadi*






Palestine Legal, along with 19 other local and national civil rights, community, and educational organizations, has *urged San Francisco State University to publicly defend Professor Rabab Abdulhadi *against a years-long campaign of harassment, threats, and legal bullying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.




















Yeah a "legislator' who's a member of a militant Communist group that hijacked planes,
murdered 2 students in Jerusalem market, and runs camps teaching kids how to stab and shoot mk-47's

She and her fellow Jihadi filth should rot in jail with no sunlight.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.



Why did they do that, Tinmore?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Civil Rights, Community Orgs Call on SFSU to Support Rabab Abdulhadi*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine Legal, along with 19 other local and national civil rights, community, and educational organizations, has *urged San Francisco State University to publicly defend Professor Rabab Abdulhadi *against a years-long campaign of harassment, threats, and legal bullying.












Do you see many "professors" or "civil rights organizations" using Universities to promote 
gun violence and holy wars??!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did they do that, Tinmore?
Click to expand...

Good question. I don't think she has ever as much as pick up a rock.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did they do that, Tinmore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question. I don't think she has ever as much as pick up a rock.
Click to expand...


That another of your non answers?


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian daily likens jihad terrorist to Christ on the cross*

OCT 31, 2019 8:00 AM BY CHRISTINE DOUGLASS-WILLIAMS.

Palestinians have long declared that Jesus was a Palestinian. So has Rep. Ilhan Omar.

In exploring some of the roots of how and where Jesus (Yeshua in Hebrew) came to be deemed a Palestinian, the Israeli monitoring agency Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) exposed a Palestinian Authority TV interview in which author Samih Ghanadreh from Nazareth was asked about his new book _Christianity and its Connection to Islam_. Ghanadeh stated that he personally heard Yasser Arafat several times affirm that Jesus was the first Palestinian martyr, and the TV host replied: “Jesus was a Palestinian, no one denies that.”

PMW cited the regularity of this declaration by prominent Palestinians, including the Governor of Ramallah Leila Ghannam (_“We all have the right to be proud that Jesus is a Palestinian”), s_enior PA leader Jibril Rajoub (_“The greatest Palestinian in history since Jesus is Yasser Arafat_“), and an editorial in the PA official daily — _Al-Hayat Al-Jadida _— that referred to the “holy Trinity” as being Arafat, Abbas and Jesus.

As if this revisionist history were not enough, according to the official Palestinian Authority official daily, Jesus was not only a Palestinian, but a “Palestinian terrorist”:

Official Palestinian daily likens jihad terrorist to Christ on the cross


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
Click to expand...

Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?

I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Conversation with Hanan Ashrawi: Reflections on Palestinian Politics and Society”*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
Click to expand...


And instead you've got the return of Arabs back to their shitholes


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
Click to expand...


So what is the magical date?

That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.

There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.

There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.

There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .

Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.

So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
Click to expand...

I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.

On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.

And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the most basic concept of international law is that the people *belong* to the land.
> 
> Many parts of international law like aggression, ethnic cleansing, conquest, territorial integrity hinge on this basic concept.
> 
> Refugees belong to the land and must be allowed to return. Descendants have the right to return because they do not belong anywhere else. Other countries are not required to absorb refugees because they do not belong there. Nationality is determined by where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re “ forgetting “  six little words; “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Keep posting.!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many have not?
Click to expand...



On Nakba Day, Hamas and Islamic Jihad vow to 'liberate Palestine'

    Does this answer your question?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Maybe this will.  As usual. there will be no response


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Palestinian Media Portrays Killer of Israeli Teen as Jesus

  Go make " peace" with these animals


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rev. Naim Ateek - A Palestinian Christian Cry for Reconciliation*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
Click to expand...


Well it may be convenient to assume that, but its complete none sense to claim  that Arabs who cannot even properly pronounce the name of the place "forever lived there". Let alone their insistence on referring to themselves as "Palestinians" which literally means 'INVADERS' in the language of the place.

On the other hand, those whom you call 'European Zionist' are not only a vivid historic example of one of the longest connections between a people and a land, which is common knowledge for anyone who's last two brain cells haven't yet been ruined by consumption of Arab propaganda and banging their heads on the floor, but also have detailed family trees that connect them not only to the land, but as far as back to the royal Davidic line.

But who are we to argue with your "expert" opinion, right?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nationality is determined by the domestic laws of individual nations.  It is, for ease of explanation, a contract between a State and its citizens.  Countries are not required to absorb refugees because they have no relationship with those people, let alone mutual obligations.  Laws against statelessness require that when a person would otherwise be stateless, the become a national of the country in which they were born.
> 
> *The idea of people belonging to a land is nonsense.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
Click to expand...


Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.

Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
Click to expand...

You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.

Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
Click to expand...


That isn't even an argument.

Maybe a logical fallacy?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well is it totally?
> 
> If a country takes control of an area - do the people there not come with it?  If a stateless person becomes a national in of the country they were born in then that means those refugees born in the country they fled from would be nationals of it, but unable to return to it.
> 
> There is also a moral aspect.  People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land.  Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place?  For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is also a moral aspect. People belonging to a land and a land belonging to a people are interchangeable in a sense, in the way people feel about a land. Isn't it what drives indigenous rights to a place? For that matter - the rights of any long standing native peoples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
Click to expand...

A number of Palestinians were also immigrants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A number of Palestinians were also immigrants.
Click to expand...

We need to define what is an immigrant.

People who move to a country to join and become a part of that society are immigrants. Should they have less rights than the so called indigenous?

People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A number of Palestinians were also immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We need to define what is an immigrant.
> 
> People who move to a country to join and become a part of that society are immigrants. Should they have less rights than the so called indigenous?
> 
> People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not.
Click to expand...


If you are referring to Jews, just bear in mind that they were _forced _to live separate from the prevailing society. For centuries. Maybe since Constantine.

And their last attempt at assimilation, look how that turned out. In Nazi Germany.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> I have said before that a people and their land are married. They cannot be separated. The UN was correct to pass resolution 194. The people should return to their homes.
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
Click to expand...


You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.

For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.

Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.

The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.

Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.

Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.

Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A number of Palestinians were also immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We need to define what is an immigrant.
> 
> People who move to a country to join and become a part of that society are immigrants. Should they have less rights than the so called indigenous?
> 
> People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not.
Click to expand...


This is an argument for assimilation into an invading society aka imperialist expansion and colonization, that further backs the rights of indigenous nations to actually separate for the sake of preservation. Especially if as you put it, they immigrated to liberate their indigenous lands and connect with the remnants of their indigenous native tribe. And on the other hand obligates the dominant invading society, to assimilate into the revived indigenous culture.

Therefore Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,


Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
Click to expand...


Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.

And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"


----------



## admonit

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
Click to expand...

The problem is not where Palestinian Arabs came from or what dances they dance, but their intolerance and uncivilized behavior.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
Click to expand...

OK, but there are no beheadings, no stonings, no escorts required, no dress codes. Women and Christians can own land, homes, and businesses. They can run for and hold any elected office.

There are differences where it matters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

admonit said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The problem is not where Palestinian Arabs came from or what dances they dance, but their intolerance and uncivilized behavior.
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof of that?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Return IF they actually had lived there...not down through the generatations.  And keep in mind, if you regard it as a generational right it would have to include tbe rights of Jews to return as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean the Jews after 70 years or after 3000 years?
> 
> I have never opposed the return of the Jews to Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what is the magical date?
> 
> That is the problem here.  Factions are full of magical dates.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not given a right of return.
> 
> There is a magical date after which people are not allowed to call themselves a people.
> 
> There are magical dates after which or before which people are denied the right to identify with a land .
> 
> Everyone is an invader but these magical dates, moving targets, serve to make them righteous.
> 
> So what is the nagical where upon one is given or denied a "right" of return?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we agree that the Palestinians have lived there forever. Some of them were Jews who also had lived there forever. They are the native population.
> 
> On the other hand, few if any European Zionists have any ancestors from that area. "Return" is an unusual term to use. So it isn't just a matter of time.
> 
> And besides, the Zionists were not immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A number of Palestinians were also immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We need to define what is an immigrant.
> 
> People who move to a country to join and become a part of that society are immigrants. Should they have less rights than the so called indigenous?
> 
> People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not.
Click to expand...


In my view...it isnt so simple.

There are a lot of refetences to "invaders" and "colonists" and "squatters" to describe the following:

People who's ancesters have lived there for thousands of years regardless of culture.

People who have legally immigrated to the homeland of their ancesters.

People who legally immigrated for other reasons.

Those references, without question, are intended as perjoratives meant to marginalize on or the other of these groups and their rights and sadly those using those terms are increasingly strident.

So which people are moving to " to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not"?

If they are immigrating to become part of the already existing and long established Jewish community and culture that is hardly living seperate with an eye to taking over. That is an existing culture.

 If immigrants are an issue why dont you have a problem with Arabs from other regions who immigrated in for jobs in the 20th century and now call themselves Palestinians?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but there are no beheadings, no stonings, no escorts required, no dress codes. Women and Christians can own land, homes, and businesses. They can run for and hold any elected office.
> 
> There are differences where it matters.
Click to expand...

There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> If immigrants are an issue why dont you have a problem with Arabs from other regions who immigrated in for jobs in the 20th century and now call themselves Palestinians?


I didn't say that immigration was an issue.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.



But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> If they are immigrating to become part of the already existing and long established Jewish community and culture that is hardly living seperate with an eye to taking over. That is an existing culture.



This.  

The already existing and long established Jewish community has every right to "taking over", as in exerting her collective rights to self-determination in her homeland.  Just as the Arab Palestinians have every right to "taking over" to exert their collective rights to self-determination.  

That is what self-determination means -- taking over at least some elements of the issues and values which control your collective experience.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.
Click to expand...

What is wrong with the Palestinian culture?

They seem to be normal people except when Israel is attacking them.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly.



It would be silly.  Because you are conflating a religion with an entire culture.  They are NOT the same things.  Christianity is not an ethnic culture.  "Jewish" is.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is wrong with the Palestinian culture?
> 
> They seem to be normal people except when Israel is attacking them.
Click to expand...


Did I say anything was wrong with Palestinian culture?  Nope.  

But Arab culture has almost completely overrun Jewish culture in the Jewish homeland.  The point of indigenous rights, including self-determination, is to preserve the local culture; have it not be overrun.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*13TH DISTRICT STRONG with Rep. RASHIDA TLAIB | Bernie Sanders 2020*

**


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.
Click to expand...

I am not convinced it is that clear cut.  For example, Jewish culture survived the Arabic influence.  And for that matter took on aspects of it, to create it’s own flavor right in the Middle East didn’t it?  And in the same way those who millennia ago dispersed into Europe took on parts of the cultures they adopted creating, for example the unique and rich Yiddish Jewish culture.  Which is the pure indigenous culture exactly that needs to be protected from the spread of other cultures?

Israel is absolutely Jewish and with a Jewish majority.   With out question. So it is the dominant culture. They are not in danger of losing their culture short of a catastrophic event.  

But there ARE others who are in danger of losing their culture: the Bedouin for example who are indigenous to a portion of Israel and who, like most nomadic peoples around the world now, are truly losing their culture to the onslaught of settled agricultural and urban cultures.

Why is it necessary to insist that any of the native peoples in the region are invaders and colonists.  Or falsely claim they all came from the Arabian peninsula?  Or claim that those who immigrate from Europe to join their culture in it’s native land are invaders and colonists?

What is the purpose in such emphatic declarations?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is wrong with the Palestinian culture?
> 
> They seem to be normal people except when Israel is attacking them.
Click to expand...


Peaceful coexistence maybe?  And, more tragically, the ability to coalesce around a unified set of principles aimed at creating a state.  They have rights equal to the Jews, but they habitually shoot themselves in the foot rather than push for their rights in a way that will gain them.  Every time they do that, they are are giving a gift to the Israeli hard right to deny them those rights.  Shooting rockets into civilian centers.  Attacking civilians with knives, bombs, vehicles.  Killing or punishing their fellow Palestinians who DO try to form collaborative relationships with Jews.  The Palestinian hardliners do their people no favors at all.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But its the spread of the culture which is the problem.  That is the problem which indigenous rights are intended to solve and the reason for the existence of indigenous rights -- with or without the movement of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is wrong with the Palestinian culture?
> 
> They seem to be normal people except when Israel is attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I say anything was wrong with Palestinian culture?  Nope.
> 
> *But Arab culture has almost completely overrun Jewish culture in the Jewish homeland.  *The point of indigenous rights, including self-determination, is to preserve the local culture; have it not be overrun.
Click to expand...


Has it?  There is a Jewish majority.  Hebrew is the official language, though there is a short sightedness here.  Most Arab Israeli’s speak Hebrew, but relatively few Israeli Jews speak Arabic.  Jewish holy days are enshrined and the courts, legislature and laws have a strong Jewish flavor.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If immigrants are an issue why dont you have a problem with Arabs from other regions who immigrated in for jobs in the 20th century and now call themselves Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say that immigration was an issue.
Click to expand...

True...what you said was this: _People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not. (Immigrants)_

 But I am not aware of any immigrant groups doing that.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If immigrants are an issue why dont you have a problem with Arabs from other regions who immigrated in for jobs in the 20th century and now call themselves Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say that immigration was an issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True...what you said was this: _People who move to a country to live separate from the society with an eye to take over the place for themselves are not. (Immigrants)_
> 
> But I am not aware of any immigrant groups doing that.
Click to expand...

I am not surprised that you are not. Up until about twenty years ago, Israel's version of history was the only one generally available. Only recently has real history been slowly creeping into public discourse.

Vladimir Jabotinsky (1880-1940), born in the Ukraine-USSR, was a member of the World Zionist Organisation. He later founded the Zionist-Revisionist movement, which was the central ideological component of the Likud (which became Ariel Sharon’s Kadima party). He always believed that the creation of a Jewish state meant imposing the will of Zionism on the Palestinian population. He stated:

*“…colonisation can continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through…this is our policy towards the Arabs and to formulate it in any other way would be hypocrisy…The Jewish question can be solved either completely or it cannot be solved at all. We are in need of a territory where our people will constitute the overwhelming majority…and one must not be afraid of the word ‘segregation’ ”*.

The Zionist Project - 1948​
Even today Israel's settler colonial project continues to build segregated Jewish only settlements in the West Bank and in the territory that is now called Israel. Colonial settlements for over a hundred years have been separate from the Palestinian population.


----------



## Mindful

Hugh Fitzgerald says

Nov 1, 2019 at 6:09 pm

And Jews in Europe and America until 1948 would talk about their relatives who were now “Palestinians.”

At the U.N., not a single Arab diplomat prior to 1967 appears to have used the phrase “Palestinian people” or the demonym “Palestinian” to refer to any Arabs. The invention, and dissemination, of the “Palestinian people” was quite an achievement by the Arabs, who had a little help, I believe, from that well-known P.R. firm, the K.G.B.

1939: British White Paper Referred to Jews as “Palestinians”


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Virginia Tilley: Does the U.S. Support an Apartheid State?*

**


----------



## Mindful

Is that all you've got, Tinmore?

A 'funny'?

It doesn't exactly enhance your 'argument'.


----------



## Mindful

Israel is not an apartheid state!


Arab  judge, George Karra , sentenced an ex-Israeli president Moshe Katsav to prison...


----------



## Mindful

*Southern Israel Pummelled by Volleys of Rockets Amid Renewed Gaza Tension*
*by Algemeiner Staff*







An Iron Dome battery fires an interceptor missile as rockets are launched from Gaza toward Israel near the southern city of Sderot, Aug. 9, 2018. Photo: Reuters / Amir Cohen.

Several volleys of rockets were fired into southern Israel on Friday night from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

A home in the city of Sderot was reported to have suffered a direct hit, and a woman was lightly injured while running to a bomb shelter.



Southern Israel Pummeled by Volleys of Rockets Amid Renewed Gaza Tension


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I am not convinced it is that clear cut.  For example, Jewish culture survived the Arabic influence.  And for that matter took on aspects of it, to create it’s own flavor right in the Middle East didn’t it?  And in the same way those who millennia ago dispersed into Europe took on parts of the cultures they adopted creating, for example the unique and rich Yiddish Jewish culture.  Which is the pure indigenous culture exactly that needs to be protected from the spread of other cultures?



"Pure" indigenous cultures?  You are on ugly ground there, to speak of "purity".  Terms like that resonate, not in a good way, with Jewish people. 

There is no requirement for "purity", nor prohibitions against cultural interaction, and there is no restriction on adapting certain cultural aspects when two cultures are in close proximity.  Its obvious that people in a diaspora will adopt specific cultural traits as necessary to function in an entirely different culture.  Cultural trade is normal, and not the subject of this post.  

The Jewish people are ONE people.  There are no real fundamental differences in Jewish culture between Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi. (Though each will argue their food is superior). And I'm seeing lots of pushback in the Jewish community against trying to make those distinctions.  It fuels the Tinmores of the world, by suggesting that it is acceptable to divide the Jewish people into three different groups, with three different sets of "rights" (or non-rights, more likely).  This is HOW people like Tinmore come to believe that the Ashkenazi are not "real" Jews.  The Jewish people are ONE people.

That the Jewish culture managed to survive through all these thousands of years after everything they have been subjected to is a miracle.  (And yes, as a religious person, I use that term deliberately).  



> So it is the dominant culture.


To a certain extent, I both agree and disagree with this.  The culture is dominant is a very small piece of territory, true.  It is a remarkable achievement for an indigenous peoples.  The only indigenous peoples who have lost and then restored their culture in their traditional territory.  An example for other indigenous peoples, certainly.  First Nations in Canada are travelling this road as well, and I'm very happy to see it.  However, the Jewish culture is still non-dominant in the region and very much still under fire, both from external threats and from those who suggest that protective measures, such as special considerations in constitutions, are both unnecessary and morally repugnant.  



> They are not in danger of losing their culture short of a catastrophic event.


Well, the Jewish people are pretty used to catastrophic events.  And there are plenty of people and governments calling for catastrophic events.  And plenty of the international community withholding or removing support for the Jewish people and Israel.  Or insisting that if the Jewish people or Israel just "changed their ways", then they could avoid their deserved slaughter. Which all feels pretty familiar.  So if you think the Jewish people feel safe, you are wrong.



> But there ARE others who are in danger of losing their culture: the Bedouin for example who are indigenous to a portion of Israel and who, like most nomadic peoples around the world now, are truly losing their culture to the onslaught of settled agricultural and urban cultures.


I see this as a slightly different issue, being the tension between modernization and traditional lifestyles.  This could occur in peoples of the same culture, and isn't necessarily a clash between cultures.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> What is the purpose in such emphatic declarations?



My take?  Each is trying to give their side the superior claim.  And each side is trying to delegitimize the other claim by making them the "bad guys" who invaded and colonized.  

Everyone arguing on this board who posts regularly is aware of all of the complexities of history, and generally acknowledge those complexities when pressed.  (With notable exceptions).  

The primary difference between the position claimed by both sides, imo, is that one is exclusionary, and one is a reaction to the exclusion.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Even today Israel's settler colonial project continues to build segregated Jewish only settlements in the West Bank and in the territory that is now called Israel.



What?!  As opposed to all the rich cultural interaction and mixed communities in Gaza and Arab West Bank?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Official PA TV: Mother of 6 terrorists is “role model for every Palestinian woman”; PA official: “We draw our determination and our strength [from her]" | PMW Translations

  The Goal of every Palestinian Mother


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state


  YAWN..... keep cutting and pasting


----------



## toastman

What is this ‘Palestine’ you speak of Tinmore ??


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey

Ahmed was a terrorist..






Not anymore.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from Palestine. This wonderful olive that Israeli settlers are trying to steal, burn and cut


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from Palestine. This wonderful olive that Israeli settlers are trying to steal, burn and cut


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>

























"Repression" - when you are exposed as a front for a Communist militant group that hijacks planes,
trains kids to stab and shoot mk-47's, while just weeks ago your "activist" murdered a 17 yo girl by detonating a bomb in the middle of a street,

 but still cry foul pretending not to understand why the charade is over...


Palestinian mentality all the way


----------



## rylah

And while talking about crying foul...

Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...






Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
no enemies in sight


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but there are no beheadings, no stonings, no escorts required, no dress codes. Women and Christians can own land, homes, and businesses. They can run for and hold any elected office.
> 
> There are differences where it matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is this bizarre idea that Muslim Palestinians all came out of the Arabian Peninsula.  It is an idea that ignores snd conflates the spread of a culture (arabization) with the actual movements of people.  It is just another tool to deny legitimacy.
Click to expand...


This attempt to picture Muslim domination over entire continents as sort of jeans becoming a fashion trend is a vulgar insult at basic intelligence.

Arab imperialist expansion is not a "bizarre idea" but a history of colonization of several continents backed by a common supremacist ideology of domination, that brought us the Caliphate and led to eventual genocide of entire cultures.

The father of Palestinian nationalism, Yasser "I don't have Aids" Arafat, literally declared their goal is "one Arab state from Morocco in north Africa to Yemen in south Arabia"  revealing the logical conclusion of the same imperialist ideology of competing Arabian tribes seeking domination that resulted in the slaughter of hundreds of millions:


This is exactly how we ended up with one of the biggest *Arabian tribe al-Tamimi *being both the royals of Qatar, and the ruling religious dynasty of Saudi Arabia, now demanding tiny Israel, the only non-Muslim country in the entire middle east they failed to subjugate, and another *Arabian tribe of **al-Hussayni *already dominating 80% of the land intended for the tiny Jewish nation, aside from Kurds, the only independent indigenous nation standing in their way to complete domination over the entire middle east.


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight


There you go again.  Why don’t quit using the murder of our president for your own propoganda purposes?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are certainly invaders, but Israel have never invaded a land that didn't belong to their ancestors in the first place. And again it has nothing to do with dates, but with the specific cultures and their birthplaces.
> 
> Dr. Nam Greer professor of the Sociology, Anthropology Department in University of Redlands, has worked in protecting the indigenous rights of peoples as disparate as the Mayangna and Miskitú peoples, Native Hawaiians and other ethnic groups on Hawai'i Nei, and the Cahuilla-Serrano people of California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep banging on about something that is not in dispute. Are Jews indigenous to the land? Some are and some aren't.
> 
> Palestine is the birthplace of Christianity. I am a Christian. Does that make me indigenous? That would be silly. I can't just kick somebody out of their house and start carrying in furniture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just don't understand the term 'indigenous'.
> And indigenous status has nothing to do with religion, which again Judaism is not.
> Think more 'tribal' and 'cultural'.
> 
> For example there're many nations who adhere to Christianity, but once you take it away, and people stop believing their dogmatic tenants, there's nothing common that connects them culturally, no common language, festivals, calendar etc.
> 
> Now if you take the Native American or Canadian nations, they can believe in their numerous gods or not, but they remain connected by a common culture that is unique, evolves around and originates in a specific land, and they're still indigenous to that land.
> 
> The same with Jews, they can believe in G-d or not believe in G-d at all, but they remain connected to each other through common unique culture that wholly revolves around and originated in one specific land, to which they're indigenous.
> 
> Neither does the status of indigeneity refer to personal rights, but that of a collective aka 'tribe', there's no such thing as one Jew being indigenous and one not, they're all collectively an indigenous tribe that adheres to, each one to their extent, and identifies by culture that originated in Israel.
> 
> Christianity, Islam and Hinduism are world religions who's goal is to spread among different nations, while Judaism is a tribal culture that preserves a unique nation to its place of origin.
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> while Jews are collectively and culturally indigenous having originated in Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabs are collectively and culturally foreigners having spread from Arabian peninsula,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is vastly different from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, they merely speak the same language, celebrate the same holidays, adhere to the same calendar, eat the same foods, listen to the same music, dance the same dances, face the same direction in prayer, and originate from the same tribes.
> 
> And that's just from the top of my head... other than that, yeah "vastly different"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, but there are no beheadings, no stonings, no escorts required, no dress codes. Women and Christians can own land, homes, and businesses. They can run for and hold any elected office.
> 
> There are differences where it matters.
Click to expand...


Certainly living by a civilized nation has its effect, they don't sell camel urine anymore as in Saudi Arabia as well.

However all of what you listed was still a reality some 20 yrs ago, and some remain.
When I was a kid I once made a mistake of looking into the dark corners of the internet, namely LiveLeak, to see how it was there...and the gruesome things the entire world seen from Syria were all a celebrated reality.

*Public executions in front of mosques and in a street corner* are still celebrated.
Some are given the choice to wear a suicide vest instead, as a "privilege" to keeping family honor

There's honor killings in the family as in any Arab society,* just weeks ago* there was a case of a family throwing a young woman from the building, then murdering her in a hospital, for merely posting picture with her fiance on Facebook, some days before wedding.

Many women are subject to the same dress code as in Saudi Arabia, *or simply bought and sold after being used*, with their families leaving them for Kuwait and other Gulf countries.

Christians are forced to convert and attacked when not participating in propaganda.
While Israel is the only place in the middle east where Christian community thrives,
under PA and Hamas they're virtually disappearing.

*Sharia police* is documented every now and then, and and murderers of Christians are commonly praised in songs on government TV.


*Mother to children of murderer: “Your father is a hero”*
Yasser Rabai'ah – Palestinian terrorist who together with an accomplice murdered Greek Orthodox monk Tsibouktsakis Germanus in an attack on the Jerusalem-Ma'ale Adumim

**


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again.  Why don’t quit using the murder of our president for your own propoganda purposes?
Click to expand...


You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.

Coincidence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mustafa Barghouti: The Palestinian struggle against oppression and occupation - IQ2 debates*

**


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
Click to expand...


Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?

The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?

And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia

No one is blindly defending anyone.

The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?
> 
> The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?
> 
> And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia
> 
> No one is blindly defending anyone.
> 
> The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.
Click to expand...


Sure,

and according to State Dept the PFLP are not enemies,
and Tlaib is not a traitor promoting them.

Neither are you...


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?
> 
> The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?
> 
> And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia
> 
> No one is blindly defending anyone.
> 
> The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure,
> 
> and according to State Dept the PFLP are not enemies,
> and Tlaib is not a traitor candidate promoting them.
Click to expand...


What candidate are you even talking about?  Tlaib isn't a candidate.  She's an elected official, answerable to her constituency - not you.  And not Israel.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?
> 
> The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?
> 
> And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia
> 
> No one is blindly defending anyone
> 
> The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure,
> 
> and according to State Dept the PFLP are not enemies,
> and Tlaib is not a traitor candidate promoting them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What candidate are you even talking about?  Tlaib isn't a candidate.  She's an elected official, answerable to her constituency - not you.  And not Israel.
Click to expand...


Sure we're all the problem here...

except for you suggesting a Caliphate "solution",
and Tlaib promoting her friends in  PFLP

just_ "some people doing something" _


----------



## Coyote

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And while talking about crying foul...
> 
> Lookie lookie who is the dirty racist mouth accusing everyone of double loyalty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it's just about "impeachment", not that they ever murdered an American president...
> no enemies in sight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?
> 
> The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?
> 
> And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia
> 
> No one is blindly defending anyone.
> 
> The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure,
> 
> and according to State Dept the PFLP are not enemies,
> and Tlaib is not a traitor candidate promoting them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What candidate are you even talking about?  Tlaib isn't a candidate.  She's an elected official, answerable to her constituency - not you.  And not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure we're all the problem here
> 
> except for you suggesting a Caliphate "solution",
> and Tlaib promoting the State Dept designated enemies.
> 
> just_ "some people doing something" _
Click to expand...


No one is saying "we're all the problem here" - just pointing out the inconvenient facts.  She is an elected official.  She is answerable to HER constituency.  Not you.  Not to Israel.  Israel is not the one who is going to be creating the climate for jobs, paving potholes, looking out for their interests and answering constituent letters.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be more concerned with me, rather than the candidate you blindly defend promoting those whom the State Dept. designated as enemies, and actually murdered an elected American president.
> 
> Coincidence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coincidence?  Or just plain silliness on your part?
> 
> The State Department did not designate the Palestinian people as an enemy.  Where did you come up with that?
> 
> And actually they did not murder an elected America president.  One man, murdered a Senator, the brother of a president (my mistake in references earlier as well).  He was a Jordanian of Palestinian origin who was angry at the US's support of Israel.  Sirhan Sirhan - Wikipedia
> 
> No one is blindly defending anyone.
> 
> The objection is your using this to gin up hatred for the Palestinian people.  Not once but multiple times now and it's based on pure disinformation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure,
> 
> and according to State Dept the PFLP are not enemies,
> and Tlaib is not a traitor candidate promoting them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What candidate are you even talking about?  Tlaib isn't a candidate.  She's an elected official, answerable to her constituency - not you.  And not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure we're all the problem here
> 
> except for you suggesting a Caliphate "solution",
> and Tlaib promoting the State Dept designated enemies.
> 
> just_ "some people doing something" _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is saying "we're all the problem here" - just pointing out the inconvenient facts.  She is an elected official.  She is answerable to HER constituency.  Not you.  Not to Israel.  Israel is not the one who is going to be creating the climate for jobs, paving potholes, looking out for their interests and answering constituent letters.
Click to expand...











Sure,
her friends in Hamas and PFLP are gonna do that.
Lot's of job vacancies available... after "some people do something"


----------



## rylah

Last year Argentina was to play a friendly match in Jerusalem before the World Cup but cancelled due to violent threats *"worse than ISIS"* from t from Palestinian officials including Palestinian Football Chief Jibril Rajoub.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas imposes Sharia law in Gaza*

Faraj Al Ghoul, the Hamas Justice Minister, announced the Gazan parliament would replace the criminal code in existence since 1936 with a new one based on Sharia Islamic law.

The law stipulates a minimum of 20 lashes for minor offenses, and a minimum of 80 lashes in criminal cases. The hand of a thief will be cut off; the death penalty will be reinstated for criminal offenders including homosexual practices, etc.

In 2009, Hamas banned motorcyclists from driving a woman on their back seat [1] and imposed the Islamic dress code [2]. On 4 March 2010, Hamas banned men from working in women’s hair salons [3]. On 10 February 2013, Hamas banned mixed schools for students over 9 years [4].





*
Hamas imposes Sharia law in Gaza*


----------



## rylah

*7-year-old on PA children’s TV: I learned “the art of the rifle,” “Abbas... my blood is your blood”*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Date harvest season starts in Gaza!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrested 10-year-old Mohammed Abu Alya from Al-Mughayyir village in Ramallah today. What threat does this little kid pose??


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Save our planet and free Palestine!"
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib takes part in the #ClimateStrike in Michigan district.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian couple pose for a picture on their 65th wedding anniversary.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Denied Entry to U.S., BDS Co-Founder Omar Barghouti Condemns McCarthyite Repression in U.S. & Israel*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces arrested 10-year-old Mohammed Abu Alya from Al-Mughayyir village in Ramallah today. What threat does this little kid pose??



He was not, this is just another bold lie by the Palestinian Propaganda Center
that spreads lies using random pictures without any reference other than daily fake stories they make up.

Just like this one :





*Avi Mayer on Twitter: "Blatant lies: the Palestinian ...*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Denied Entry to U.S., BDS Co-Founder Omar Barghouti Condemns McCarthyite Repression in U.S. & Israel*
> 
> **








To no surprise, Barghouti being considered a security threat,
is not only banned from the US, but also from UK.

That's what usually happens when your organization gets exposed as a front for Jihadi militants
who hijack planes and detonate bombs in the middle of the street.


----------



## rylah

*PA POLICE ARREST, HARASS MEMBERS OF LGTBQ COMMUNITY*
*Members of the Palestinian LGBTQ community have in recent weeks been violently targeted and harassed by PA officers.*

The Palestinian Authority’s persecution of the Palestinian LGBTQ community in the West Bank has continued with greater frequency and intensity, notwithstanding protests from human rights organizations, the alQaws for Sexual & Gender Diversity in Palestinian Society group said on Wednesday.

Members of the Palestinian LGBTQ community have in recent weeks been violently targeted and harassed by PA officers, the group revealed.


“Alarmingly, we have witnessed more than a dozen cases of targeting and harassment that have led to numerous arrests – or rather abductions – in recent weeks,” it said. “We believe there are many more cases that have not reached us.”

In August, the PA police spokesperson issued a statement banning the east Jerusalem-based alQaws’ activities in the West Bank. The statement said that the PA police would prohibit any event organized by the group on the pretext that its activities go against “traditional Palestinian values.”

The PA police called on Palestinians to report any “suspicious” activities and threatened to persecute alQaws staff and activists. The ban came after alQaws held an event in Nablus for its members.

“Although the harassment and persecution disappeared from public discourse, it had not – and still has not – ceased. The violent aftermath of the PA police statement has continued and reached its peak in recent weeks,” alQaws said.

It pointed out that under mounting pressure, the PA police quietly responded to “inquiries” from human rights organizations by saying it has retracted the statement and confirming that alQaws’ work is absolutely legal.

“However, when people demanded the police officially and publicly denounce their statement and affirm the legality of alQaws’s work, the police refused,” the group said. “With the statement not officially stricken from the public record, the violence it called for against LGTBQ people in Palestine has continued – unabated, with greater frequency and intensity, [as] we have witnessed an alarming increase in abuse cases and intensified blackmail and threats in the public and digital spheres, and further entrenched by the legitimizing effect of police sanction.”

_Palestinian Authority police prevent an end-of Ramadan prayer service by supporter of the Hizb-ut Tahrir in Hebron, June 4, 2019. (photo credit: MUSSA QAWASMA / REUTERS)_





*Palestinian police arrest, harass members of LGTBQ community*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Put


P F Tinmore said:


> *Mustafa Barghouti: The Palestinian struggle against oppression and occupation - IQ2 debates*
> 
> **



You “ forgot” to mention that Israel  acted AFTER Nasser grabbed it and tried to nationalize it . Now, who initiated the aggression?


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Put
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mustafa Barghouti: The Palestinian struggle against oppression and occupation - IQ2 debates*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You “ forgot” to mention that Israel  acted AFTER Nasser grabbed it and tried to nationalize it . Now, who initiated the aggression?
Click to expand...

Poor guys runs offline each time we expose these ridiculous fakes...

I just wonder how the Jihadi handlers punish him,
10 lashes per post?


----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> "Save our planet and free Palestine!"



Free Palestine!  When you buy one at the regular price.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

fncceo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Save our planet and free Palestine!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free Palestine!  When you buy one at the regular price.
Click to expand...


Buy one; Get one free.


----------



## Mindful

*A Story about 'Settlers' and a Palestinian Olive Tree You Won’t Hear About from the MSM*
By
David Lange
 - 
November 4, 2019

When Israelis and olive trees are mentioned together, it is usually in hit pieces like this.

I dare the mainstream media to cover _this_ story:

Last week Israeli residents from the Gush Etzion area commemorated a Palestinian fellow employee who had died a month ago from a brain hemorrhage at age 25.

Shadi Assad, who lived in the small village of Khallet Sakariya, located between the Israeli settlements of Alon Shevut and Rosh Tzurim in the Gush Etzion region, worked for the past five years as cleaner at the restaurant adjacent to the Gush Etzion Winery.

His colleagues decided to plant a tree in his memory, and chose an olive tree, which is so often featured in stories about clashes between Jews and Arabs in Judea and Samaria. Alongside the olive tree, they erected a tombstone with inscriptions in Hebrew and Arabic.

After the ceremony, which was also attended by rabbis from the area, including Rabbi Riskin of Efrat, one winery employee wrote: “I don’t know what peace would be like and how to bring it, but I know that a few hours ago I experienced a moment of peace. I feel the crazy complexity, the anger – but also neighborly and humane feelings.”

I’m not crying, you are crying.

*A Story About 'Settlers' and a Palestinian Olive Tree You Won't Hear About from the MSM*


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian printing house in Jerusalem, 1932.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian printing house in Jerusalem, 1932.



In 1932, every person who lived in the region was a Palestinian ... Arab, Jew, Xtian, Druid, or Buddhist.  The concept that only an Arab can be referred to as "Palestinian" is a very recent development.


----------



## fncceo

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.



If it's occupied, why haven't they turned the Al-Aqsa Mosque into the gift-shop for the rebuilt Temple?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.




What are they reading?!  Is it going to get them arrested?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.





Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia

Notice how Tinmore does not refer to East Jerusalem being under Jordanian control as "occupied " or condemn the destruction of Jewish Holy Sites??





*Treatment of Jews and Jewish holy sites[edit]*



Arab Legion soldiers at the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue after conquering the city but before deliberately destroying the synagogue.
While Christian holy sites were protected, and Muslim holy sites were maintained and renovated,[3] Jewish holy sites were damaged and sometimes destroyed.[4] According to Raphael Israeli, 58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] Oesterreicher, a Christian clergyman and scholar, wrote, “During Jordanian rule, 34 out of the Old City’s 35 synagogues were dynamited.” [8] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusively Muslim holy site associated with _al-Buraq_.[9] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] This was all in violation of the Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement Article VIII - 2 "...; free access to the Holy Places and cultural institutions and use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives;...." [10] Following the Arab Legions expulsion of the Jewish residents of the Old City in the 1948 War, Jordan allowed Arab Muslim refugees to settle in the vacated Jewish Quarter.[11] Later, after some of these were moved to Shuafat, migrants from Hebron took their place.[12] During the 1960s, as the quarter continued to fall into decay, Jordan planned to turn the quarter into a public park.[13]

'


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> Notice how Tinmore does not refer to East Jerusalem being under Jordanian control as "occupied " or condemn the destruction of Jewish Holy Sites??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Treatment of Jews and Jewish holy sites[edit]*
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Legion soldiers at the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue after conquering the city but before deliberately destroying the synagogue.
> While Christian holy sites were protected, and Muslim holy sites were maintained and renovated,[3] Jewish holy sites were damaged and sometimes destroyed.[4] According to Raphael Israeli, 58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] Oesterreicher, a Christian clergyman and scholar, wrote, “During Jordanian rule, 34 out of the Old City’s 35 synagogues were dynamited.” [8] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusively Muslim holy site associated with _al-Buraq_.[9] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] This was all in violation of the Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement Article VIII - 2 "...; free access to the Holy Places and cultural institutions and use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives;...." [10] Following the Arab Legions expulsion of the Jewish residents of the Old City in the 1948 War, Jordan allowed Arab Muslim refugees to settle in the vacated Jewish Quarter.[11] Later, after some of these were moved to Shuafat, migrants from Hebron took their place.[12] During the 1960s, as the quarter continued to fall into decay, Jordan planned to turn the quarter into a public park.[13]
> 
> '
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Notice how Tinmore does not refer to East Jerusalem being under Jordanian control as "occupied "


You haven't been following my posts.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian father and his little daughter at al-Aqsa Mosque in Occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islamization of East Jerusalem under Jordanian occupation - Wikipedia
> 
> Notice how Tinmore does not refer to East Jerusalem being under Jordanian control as "occupied " or condemn the destruction of Jewish Holy Sites??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Treatment of Jews and Jewish holy sites[edit]*
> 
> 
> 
> Arab Legion soldiers at the Tiferet Yisrael Synagogue after conquering the city but before deliberately destroying the synagogue.
> While Christian holy sites were protected, and Muslim holy sites were maintained and renovated,[3] Jewish holy sites were damaged and sometimes destroyed.[4] According to Raphael Israeli, 58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] Oesterreicher, a Christian clergyman and scholar, wrote, “During Jordanian rule, 34 out of the Old City’s 35 synagogues were dynamited.” [8] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusively Muslim holy site associated with _al-Buraq_.[9] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] This was all in violation of the Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement Article VIII - 2 "...; free access to the Holy Places and cultural institutions and use of the cemetery on the Mount of Olives;...." [10] Following the Arab Legions expulsion of the Jewish residents of the Old City in the 1948 War, Jordan allowed Arab Muslim refugees to settle in the vacated Jewish Quarter.[11] Later, after some of these were moved to Shuafat, migrants from Hebron took their place.[12] During the 1960s, as the quarter continued to fall into decay, Jordan planned to turn the quarter into a public park.[13]
> 
> '
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how Tinmore does not refer to East Jerusalem being under Jordanian control as "occupied "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
Click to expand...


You have condemned Jordan for their occupation ,destruction of Jewish Holy Sites and not allowing Jews to have access to them?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza's First Female Photographer Dodging IDF Bullets*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel shoots journalists. Palestinian Photographer Abdel Rahman Al-Kahlout was shot by two bullets in both feet at the same time and another rubber-coated metal bullet in the foot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

After Netanyahu announced plan to annex the Jordan Valley, the Israel destroyed olive groves at hilltop owned by Palestinians, days before the planned harvest"


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian men argue with Israeli soldiers during a protest against land seizure in favor of settlement construction near Jerusalem.






Armed robbery.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel shoots journalists. Palestinian Photographer Abdel Rahman Al-Kahlout was shot by two bullets in both feet at the same time and another rubber-coated metal bullet in the foot.



This photo isn't matching with known photos of the incident.  I smell Pallywood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shoots journalists. Palestinian Photographer Abdel Rahman Al-Kahlout was shot by two bullets in both feet at the same time and another rubber-coated metal bullet in the foot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This photo isn't matching with known photos of the incident.  I smell Pallywood.
Click to expand...

You have something different?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ramzy Baroud on Israel’s Torture and Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian farmers work in their farmlands in Beit Lahia, in the northern area of the Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Deir Ghazaleh, one of the most beautiful villages in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian families, students and workers wait at Qalandiya checkpoint after it was closed by Israeli occupation forces today morning.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrest Al - Aqsa Mosque guard Samer Al-Qabbani from one of Al-Aqsa Mosque gates this morning .


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"J Street" is holding its annual conference from 26-29 October 2019 in Washington, claiming it aims to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians, while it actually backs Israel's racist ideologies.


----------



## P F Tinmore

After 35 days of hunger strike, Jordanian-Palestinian prisoner Heba al-Labadi has been transferred to the Israeli hospital of Beni Zion today after her health condition deteriorated.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,

This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."

There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.



P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:

✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.

✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.



			
				THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
			
		

> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
Click to expand...


Israel does lots wrong.  But we are too busy dealing with the antisemtism and the bullcrap propaganda to actually discuss real issues.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photos of the house of Palestinian family of Abu Humaid after it was demolished by Israeli forces for the 5th time, in El Amari refugee camp in Al Berih city.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian couple heading to their grove to pick olives in Awarta village in Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Photos of the house of Palestinian family of Abu Humaid after it was demolished by Israeli forces for the 5th time, in El Amari refugee camp in Al Berih city.



For perspective, lets talk about this family who has had their home destroyed.

There are six male children in this family.  

Three are in prison for murdering Israelis.  Two are in prison for other serious security offenses.  One was killed while he was acting in part of an ambush.  

Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that home demolition is the morally correct thing to do here.  But for those of you who argue that Israel shouldn't be doing these things, please suggest an alternative that Israel can use to deter ENTIRE FAMILIES from this kind of terrorism.  

And, Tinmore, please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT come back with "only Israel can end Israel's war".  Give us some concrete, morally and legally appropriate ways for Israel to deter or otherwise prevent terrorist acts from Arab Palestinians.  (Not that I'm expecting you to actually answer that.  You never do.)


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos of the house of Palestinian family of Abu Humaid after it was demolished by Israeli forces for the 5th time, in El Amari refugee camp in Al Berih city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For perspective, lets talk about this family who has had their home destroyed.
> 
> There are six male children in this family.
> 
> Three are in prison for murdering Israelis.  Two are in prison for other serious security offenses.  One was killed while he was acting in part of an ambush.
> 
> Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that home demolition is the morally correct thing to do here.  But for those of you who argue that Israel shouldn't be doing these things, please suggest an alternative that Israel can use to deter ENTIRE FAMILIES from this kind of terrorism.
> 
> And, Tinmore, please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT come back with "only Israel can end Israel's war".  Give us some concrete, morally and legally appropriate ways for Israel to deter or otherwise prevent terrorist acts from Arab Palestinians.  (Not that I'm expecting you to actually answer that.  You never do.)
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> "only Israel can end Israel's war".


Indeed.


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
Click to expand...

Good to know.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos of the house of Palestinian family of Abu Humaid after it was demolished by Israeli forces for the 5th time, in El Amari refugee camp in Al Berih city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For perspective, lets talk about this family who has had their home destroyed.
> 
> There are six male children in this family.
> 
> Three are in prison for murdering Israelis.  Two are in prison for other serious security offenses.  One was killed while he was acting in part of an ambush.
> 
> Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that home demolition is the morally correct thing to do here.  But for those of you who argue that Israel shouldn't be doing these things, please suggest an alternative that Israel can use to deter ENTIRE FAMILIES from this kind of terrorism.
> 
> And, Tinmore, please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT come back with "only Israel can end Israel's war".  Give us some concrete, morally and legally appropriate ways for Israel to deter or otherwise prevent terrorist acts from Arab Palestinians.  (Not that I'm expecting you to actually answer that.  You never do.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> "only Israel can end Israel's war".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...



Lame.


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
Click to expand...


Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 288726
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli leaders, no exception, are war criminals who rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE YALE JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW • Vol. 34: 549 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following Essay surveys anew familiar issues in the international law governing the use of force. It concludes that adherence to the requirements of economy of coercion-the principles of necessity and proportionality-holds out the best hope that those using force in self-defense will follow the laws of war while achieving their lawful objectives against those who engage in asymmetrical warfare without regard to such laws.
> By Dr. Nicholas Rostow • Director, Center for Strategic Research, National Defense University • Senior Director of the Center for Strategic Research •  and a Senior Research Scholar at the Yale Law School.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
Click to expand...

Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"? 
You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today

⁜→  et al,


Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:

✦  Perfect or Imperfect

✦  Right or Wrong

✦  Good or Evil​
This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect. 

The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:

✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination. 

✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.

✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.  

✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.

✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.

✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.

✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.

So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).    

Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...


Thanks, but this is not the comedy thread.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, but this is not the comedy thread.
Click to expand...


Oh?

And I thought it was. Given your contributions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photo of the #Palestinian child Mohammed 'Abdul Rahim, 12-year-old from al-'Arroub refugee camp, He was slapped and #beaten by the terrorist #zionist occupation forces at the entrance of the camp while going back home from his school, yesterday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian NASA spacecraft engineer Nujoud Merancy poses in a suit with tatreez - traditional Palestinian embroidery - for a new NASA headshot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Damascus Gate in #Jerusalem in the early 20th century


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrested the #student at #Birzeit #university Mais Hanatsheh after summon her for interrogation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photos from the Return camps east of Gaza city . 
#GreatReturnMarch


----------



## P F Tinmore

Photos from the Return camps east of Gaza city . 
#GreatReturnMarch


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.

Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

No Hamas flags. No uniforms. No guns.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from Palestine


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"?
> You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.
Click to expand...


Anyone who reads my posts on any sort of regular basis knows what I think Israel is doing wrong.  But I'd be happy to elaborate if you want to have that discussion with me.  

But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes but that we never have the chance to discuss any of that because we are too busy addressing the antisemitism which runs rampant in this section of the board.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation military court extended the arrest of the #student in Birzeit #university Mais Abu Ghoush for additional 8 days.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Disabled children were forced to take their courses in camps after the demolition of their school during the Israeli 51-day aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"?
> You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who reads my posts on any sort of regular basis knows what I think Israel is doing wrong.  But I'd be happy to elaborate if you want to have that discussion with me.
> 
> But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes but that we never have the chance to discuss any of that because we are too busy addressing the antisemitism which runs rampant in this section of the board.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes


Except I don't think those are mistakes. I think those "mistakes" are a matter of policy.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is certainly NOT an issue settler-colonial project _(started before 1948)_.  At least is not "colonial" is the way you use it.  This is intentional misinformation to draw sympathy.

Pay close attention here.



			
				Page 434 • Concise Encyclopædia Britannica said:
			
		

> *colonialism* • Control by one power over a dependent area or people.  The purposes of colonialism include economic exploitation of the colony’s natural resources, creation of new markets for the colonizer, and
> extension of the colonizer’s way of life beyond its national borders. The most active practitioners were European countries; in the years 1500–1900, Europe colonized all of North and South America and Australia,
> most of Africa, and much of Asia by sending settlers to populate the land or by taking control of governments. The first colonies were established in the Western Hemisphere by the Spanish and Portuguese in the 15th–
> 16th century. The Dutch colonized Indonesia in the 16th century, and Britain colonized North America and India in the 17th–18th centuries. Later British settlers colonized Australia and New Zealand. Colonization of
> Africa only began in earnest in the 1880s, but by 1900 virtually the entire continent was controlled by Europe. The colonial-era ended gradually after WorldWar II; *the only territories still governed as colonies today are small islands*.
> SOURCE:  The .pdf Version © 2006 BY ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA, INC.





P F Tinmore said:


> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.


*(COMMENT)*

You would have to go backward in time _(more than)_ a century to find a colonial program in progress.  However, the reality is that you are quoting from a "description" formed by a general survey of many different colonial projects long after the fact _(an outcome • not an intention and not a necessary distinguishing characteristic)_.  It is a crutch that the Arab Palestinian cling to as a justification for conflict these many decades.  As I have told you many times, there are no more colonial territories in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).

Today, 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs), as listed below, remain on the agenda of the C-24. Member States which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of such Territories are called administering Powers.  The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples _(also known as the "Special Committee on Decolonization" or the "C-24")_ and the peoples of the Non-Self-Governing Territories, in accordance with the relevant United Nations resolutions on decolonization.


Click to Expand the Map for a clearer View.​JUST so everyone understands, CLEARLY, the UN Map #4175 Rev 5 (2016), _supra_, is to show that nothing in the realm of the MENA falls under consideration of A/RES/15/1514 - Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and C-24.  It is not a colonial issue and has not been so since the time of the Ottoman Empire.

Our friend "P F Tinmore" is merely engaging in the dissemination of misinformation that masquerades as justification for the continued violence.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is certainly NOT an issue settler-colonial project _(started before 1948)_.  At least is not "colonial" is the way you use it.  This is intentional misinformation to draw sympathy.
> 
> Pay close attention here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Page 434 • Concise Encyclopædia Britannica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *colonialism* • Control by one power over a dependent area or people.  The purposes of colonialism include economic exploitation of the colony’s natural resources, creation of new markets for the colonizer, and
> extension of the colonizer’s way of life beyond its national borders. The most active practitioners were European countries; in the years 1500–1900, Europe colonized all of North and South America and Australia,
> most of Africa, and much of Asia by sending settlers to populate the land or by taking control of governments. The first colonies were established in the Western Hemisphere by the Spanish and Portuguese in the 15th–
> 16th century. The Dutch colonized Indonesia in the 16th century, and Britain colonized North America and India in the 17th–18th centuries. Later British settlers colonized Australia and New Zealand. Colonization of
> Africa only began in earnest in the 1880s, but by 1900 virtually the entire continent was controlled by Europe. The colonial-era ended gradually after WorldWar II; *the only territories still governed as colonies today are small islands*.
> SOURCE:  The .pdf Version © 2006 BY ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA, INC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You would have to go backward in time _(more than)_ a century to find a colonial program in progress.  However, the reality is that you are quoting from a "description" formed by a general survey of many different colonial projects long after the fact _(an outcome • not an intention and not a necessary distinguishing characteristic)_.  It is a crutch that the Arab Palestinian cling to as a justification for conflict these many decades.  As I have told you many times, there are no more colonial territories in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).
> 
> Today, 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGTs), as listed below, remain on the agenda of the C-24. Member States which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of such Territories are called administering Powers.  The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples _(also known as the "Special Committee on Decolonization" or the "C-24")_ and the peoples of the Non-Self-Governing Territories, in accordance with the relevant United Nations resolutions on decolonization.
> 
> View attachment 289021
> Click to Expand the Map for a clearer View.​JUST so everyone understands, CLEARLY, the UN Map #4175 Rev 5 (2016), _supra_, is to show that nothing in the realm of the MENA falls under consideration of A/RES/15/1514 - Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and C-24.  It is not a colonial issue and has not been so since the time of the Ottoman Empire.
> 
> Our friend "P F Tinmore" is merely engaging in the dissemination of misinformation that masquerades as justification for the continued violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...

Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;

Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;

A/RES/37/43 - E - A/RES/37/43


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"?
> You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who reads my posts on any sort of regular basis knows what I think Israel is doing wrong.  But I'd be happy to elaborate if you want to have that discussion with me.
> 
> But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes but that we never have the chance to discuss any of that because we are too busy addressing the antisemitism which runs rampant in this section of the board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except I don't think those are mistakes. I think those "mistakes" are a matter of policy.
Click to expand...


Sure.  I think some of Israel's policies are mistakes. Some of them are morally problematic.  Some of them are militarily incompetent.  Some of them are politically inept.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Photos of the house of Palestinian family of Abu Humaid after it was demolished by Israeli forces for the 5th time, in El Amari refugee camp in Al Berih city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For perspective, lets talk about this family who has had their home destroyed.
> 
> There are six male children in this family.
> 
> Three are in prison for murdering Israelis.  Two are in prison for other serious security offenses.  One was killed while he was acting in part of an ambush.
> 
> Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that home demolition is the morally correct thing to do here.  But for those of you who argue that Israel shouldn't be doing these things, please suggest an alternative that Israel can use to deter ENTIRE FAMILIES from this kind of terrorism.
> 
> And, Tinmore, please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT come back with "only Israel can end Israel's war".  Give us some concrete, morally and legally appropriate ways for Israel to deter or otherwise prevent terrorist acts from Arab Palestinians.  (Not that I'm expecting you to actually answer that.  You never do.)
Click to expand...


Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?

Do the homes of Jewish terrorists get demolished?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...
> 
> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;




Arrrggggh.  So frustrating not to get to you be able to understand that these concepts must be applied equally to BOTH peoples.  

_Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Jewish people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return.

Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Jewish people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference.  

Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the Jewish people_.  

Its the same thing.  BOTH peoples.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?



I don't think you will like my answer.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
Click to expand...

That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear. 

The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?


----------



## Coyote

admonit said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,
> 
> This little snippet about the all-inclusive set of all (an absolute statement → 100%) "Israeli Leaders" makes for a good bumper sticker or a title to a chapter in a work of fiction.  It is even emphasized annotated in the description as being a fact with "no exception or variation."
> 
> There are very few things I know of that do not require reasoning.  That is some manner of a process that seeks to understand the differences between good and bad - or - sound and valid.  Today, we see just so much the nonsense which itself consists of solely of a declarative statement of one single proposition _("Israeli Leader" = "War Criminal")_.  It does not even pretend to be a presentation of an argument *[*_either demonstrating validity and soundness__ (deductive) or statements that are rated by their strength in merit (weak → strong or inductive)_*]*, which themselves consist of at least two propositions _(with each proposition being either true or false - but not both)_.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In the opening statement, _supra_, we see just how ridiculous a literal interpretation of the statement is.   Yet, it does have this ring of truth that Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) love to cling.  There are two conjunctive simple propositions in this claim unified theme:
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders are War Criminals.
> 
> ✦  ALL Israeli Leaders rose to power by slaughtering Palestinians.​
> The question is, of course, one of the wisdom in entangling the twin ethical concept of "War Criminals" with that of the concept of "Slaughtering Palestinians" _(both equally ambiguous)_.  And we know that this relationship and entanglement is a fallacy of sorts.  The "defeat" of the asymmetric warfare operators _(Palestinians)_ does not equate to a War Crime.  The use of the language and the application is not to impart knowledge. There is no question but that it is to "appeal to the emotion" _(Vehemence Argument)_.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"?
> You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.
Click to expand...

How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you will like my answer.
Click to expand...

Maybe not.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you will like my answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe not.
Click to expand...


Wanna try?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?



Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
Click to expand...

Ah. Ok.

Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you will like my answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wanna try?
Click to expand...

Sure - go for it


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
Click to expand...


Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Click to expand...

I tried a thread like that and it got trolled with how evil Palestinians are


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you will like my answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wanna try?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure - go for it
Click to expand...


Framework #1:  I disagree with Israel's policy of demolishing the homes of terrorists.  Its a bad policy.  Its collective punishment.  Its morally wrong. 

Framework #2:  Concerning the idea of the "opposite effect", it is a very common form of victim blaming to cite that if the victim simply appeased the abuser, the abuse would stop.  And we are discussing Arab terrorism here -- the Arabs are the abusers. It is entirely the responsibility of the abuser to stop the abuse, not for the victim to change the victim's behaviour in order to prevent the abuse. 

THAT SAID, the problem is that it doesn't act as a deterrence.  First, it is not STRONG enough to be a good deterrence.  And secondly, it doesn't address the real scope of the problem. 

My concern is that while there are absolutely ways of addressing the fundamental problem (pretty much the way I encourage my students to deal with abuse), those ways are morally unpalatable in a political setting.

So, the question....What SHOULD Israel do with a hostile population, some of whom resort to violence against innocents?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried a thread like that and it got trolled with how evil Palestinians are
Click to expand...



Exactly.  And where is that thread now?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it actually act as a deterrence or does have the opposite effect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you will like my answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wanna try?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure - go for it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Framework #1:  I disagree with Israel's policy of demolishing the homes of terrorists.  Its a bad policy.  Its collective punishment.  Its morally wrong.
> 
> Framework #2:  Concerning the idea of the "opposite effect", it is a very common form of victim blaming to cite that if the victim simply appeased the abuser, the abuse would stop.  And we are discussing Arab terrorism here -- the Arabs are the abusers. It is entirely the responsibility of the abuser to stop the abuse, not for the victim to change the victim's behaviour in order to prevent the abuse.
> 
> THAT SAID, the problem is that it doesn't act as a deterrence.  First, it is not STRONG enough to be a good deterrence.  And secondly, it doesn't address the real scope of the problem.
> 
> My concern is that while there are absolutely ways of addressing the fundamental problem (pretty much the way I encourage my students to deal with abuse), those ways are morally unpalatable.
> 
> So, the question....What SHOULD Israel do with a hostile population, some of whom resort to violence against innocents?
Click to expand...


Why would you think I wouldn’t like it?

I largely agree, with some differences.

#1 I agree with.

#2 I am not sure it doesn’t act as a deterrence because it is not strong enough so much as it serves to justify their hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  A stronger deterrence might put a stop to it temporarily but only by making a people so terrified they dare not do anything.  Temporary though because the underlying issues would still be there ready to explode.

As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is a thread about Palestinians anti Semitic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried a thread like that and it got trolled with how evil Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  And where is that thread now?
Click to expand...

Buried.

Not enough interest


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> #2 I am not sure it doesn’t act as a deterrence because it is not strong enough so much as it serves to justify their hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  A stronger deterrence might put a stop to it temporarily but only by making a people so terrified they dare not do anything.  Temporary though because the underlying issues would still be there ready to explode.



But, similar to an abuser, the "wrongdoing" of the victim is not the source of the hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  Its nothing more than a veneer of excuses and justifications used for the express purpose of legitimizing their abuse.  

The terrorism has to stop.  Only the abuser can choose to stop the abuse.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?



The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because its largely a troll thread where Tinmore posts memes and propaganda about how "evil" Israel is and how "angelic" the Arab Palestinians are.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried a thread like that and it got trolled with how evil Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  And where is that thread now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buried.
> 
> Not enough interest
Click to expand...


Right.

So a thread, like this one, which is positive Palestine and demonizing Israel survives.  But a thread which is positive Palestine and demonizing Palestine dies.  Why is that, do you think?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> #2 I am not sure it doesn’t act as a deterrence because it is not strong enough so much as it serves to justify their hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  A stronger deterrence might put a stop to it temporarily but only by making a people so terrified they dare not do anything.  Temporary though because the underlying issues would still be there ready to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, similar to an abuser, the "wrongdoing" of the victim is not the source of the hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  Its nothing more than a veneer of excuses and justifications used for the express purpose of legitimizing their abuse.
> 
> The terrorism has to stop.  Only the abuser can choose to stop the abuse.
Click to expand...

But is who is the victim that black and white in this case?  I don’t think so, but the tendancy  is to try and make it that way.  And I suspect we won’t agree on this.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Yet there are also threads on how wonderful Israel is and how horrible Palestinians are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if this was a thread that was only on "how wonderful Arab Palestine is", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried a thread like that and it got trolled with how evil Palestinians are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  And where is that thread now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Buried.
> 
> Not enough interest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> So a thread, like this one, which is positive Palestine and demonizing Israel survives.  But a thread which is positive Palestine and demonizing Palestine dies.  Why is that, do you think?
Click to expand...


Not sure what second sentence means exactly.

Threads that survive are those that demonize some one, be it Palestinians or Israel.  They attract attackers and defenders.

Positive threads die.  Controversy thrives.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.
Click to expand...

In what way?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> #2 I am not sure it doesn’t act as a deterrence because it is not strong enough so much as it serves to justify their hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  A stronger deterrence might put a stop to it temporarily but only by making a people so terrified they dare not do anything.  Temporary though because the underlying issues would still be there ready to explode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, similar to an abuser, the "wrongdoing" of the victim is not the source of the hatred, anger and sense of injustice.  Its nothing more than a veneer of excuses and justifications used for the express purpose of legitimizing their abuse.
> 
> The terrorism has to stop.  Only the abuser can choose to stop the abuse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But is who is the victim that black and white in this case?  I don’t think so, but the tendancy  is to try and make it that way.  And I suspect we won’t agree on this.
Click to expand...


I hear you.  I'm speaking very specifically about terrorism here.  With terrorism it is black and white.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In what way?
Click to expand...


This is where it gets unpalatable.  And I get that it is.  

But, the only thing to do with an abusive partner, is to separate.  Completely.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In what way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where it gets unpalatable.  And I get that it is.
> 
> But, the only thing to do with an abusive partner, is to separate.  Completely.
Click to expand...

You are right, I would not agree.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...
> 
> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrrggggh.  So frustrating not to get to you be able to understand that these concepts must be applied equally to BOTH peoples.
> 
> _Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Jewish people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return.
> 
> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Jewish people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference.
> 
> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the Jewish people_.
> 
> Its the same thing.  BOTH peoples.
Click to expand...

Post the resolution for the Israelis.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
Click to expand...

Whose war?

There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
Click to expand...

Not really.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In what way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where it gets unpalatable.  And I get that it is.
> 
> But, the only thing to do with an abusive partner, is to separate.  Completely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are right, I would not agree.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  Which leads me back to the question.  

What SHOULD Israel do to address/deter/respond to terrorism?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...
> 
> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
> 
> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrrggggh.  So frustrating not to get to you be able to understand that these concepts must be applied equally to BOTH peoples.
> 
> _Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Jewish people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return.
> 
> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Jewish people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference.
> 
> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the Jewish people_.
> 
> Its the same thing.  BOTH peoples.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the resolution for the Israelis.
Click to expand...


Fundamentally, do you agree or disagree that rights should be equally applied to all people?  Its a yes or no question.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.



Well, yes.  And returnees.  

Why don't you take a shot at defining each?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.

Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.

There is a complete difference in the purpose.

The Zionist Project - 1948


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just believe that Israel can do no wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does lots wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going to argue that Israel is perfect?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you going to argue that the only alternative to "doing lots wrong" is "perfect"?
> You blame Israel in "doing lots wrong", without elaborating, in the context of this antisemitic thread - that was the reason for my remark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anyone who reads my posts on any sort of regular basis knows what I think Israel is doing wrong.  But I'd be happy to elaborate if you want to have that discussion with me.
> 
> But, it sounds like we agree on the essential point that Israel makes moral or political or military mistakes
Click to expand...

 In fact I never supported your criticism of Israel.


> but that we never have the chance to discuss any of that because we are too busy addressing the antisemitism which runs rampant in this section of the board.


Who forces you to feed antisemitic trolls?


----------



## Shusha

admonit said:


> In fact I never supported your criticism of Israel.


Which is totally fine.  No one is asking you to support my criticisms of Israel.  Do you think Israel has done nothing worthy of criticism?



> Who forces you to feed antisemitic trolls?


I'm challenging the trolls.  Because they need challenging.  And, more importantly, the useful idiots who read these pages, but don't comment, or don't comment often, need to see the challenges.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.



This is actually really good. I agree, in theory, with your concepts.  

Immigrants give up their (individual) rights to self determination, in favor of their assimilation with their new culture.  

Colonizers impose their (collective) self determination on the existing population.

Returnees re-establish their (collective) self determination.


Your hypocrisy is in not recognizing Jewish indigeneity, Arab colonization and Jewish reclamation.


----------



## admonit

Shusha said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact I never supported your criticism of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is totally fine.  No one is asking you to support my criticisms of Israel.  Do you think Israel has done nothing worthy of criticism?
Click to expand...

I already answered this question: Israel is not and should not be perfect.


> I'm challenging the trolls. Because they need challenging.


The trolls should be challenged by moderators.


> And, more importantly, the useful idiots who read these pages, but don't comment, or don't comment often, need to see the challenges.


So, you try to educate useful idiots? Good luck.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



• 12/03/1982      A/RES/37/43      Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution •
NON-BINDING RESOLUTION
Importance of the universal realization of the *right of peoples to self-determination*
and of the speedy *granting of independence to colonial countries* and peoples for
the effective guarantee and observance of human rights​


P F Tinmore said:


> Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...


*(COMMENT)*

This _(supra)_ is clearly stated as a "consideration" within a non-comprehensive and non-binding resolution.

No one makes the claim that Arab Palestinians do not have the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...  *IF and ONLY IF* → the Arab Palestinians recognizing these same rights in the Israeli people as codified in: THE *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) which entered into force on 23 March 1976 (BINDING).

_*Article 1 - CCPR*_
1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right, they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.​By covenant, the Israelis had the Right of Self-Determination in the creation of the State of Israel.  By charter, the Israeli people have the:

◈  Defend against the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.

◈  Inherent right of self-defense in the face of an armed attack against Israel.​
No right can the Arab Palestinian claim that makes the rights of Israelis inferior.



P F Tinmore said:


> Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national unity and sovereignty without outside interference;


*(COMMENT)*

As previously discussed, the Arab Palestinians have rejected all opportunities by the various powers to establish a peaceful state.

To my knowledge, only the Arab Palestinians have utilized an external military force _*(outside interference by the Arab League)*_ in attempts to conquer land in the territory of formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people;


*(COMMENT)*

This is not even applicable in the Question of Palestine.

◈   Israel recognized that the Arab Palestinians have the Right of Self-Determination.

◈   The Arab Palestinians have not been under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation.​
There is no parent nation sponsoring a colonial action to bring the Arab Palestinians under domination or control.  It is the Arab Palestinians that continue to challenge the Right of Self-Determination of the Israelis.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Velvet by Huzama Habayeb, translated by Kay Heikkinen, Bloomsbury (2019)*

For many, refugee camps are a world apart. This latest novel from Huzama Habayeb, an award-winning Palestinian writer, goes some way in bringing that world closer.

The impressionistic _Velvet_ portrays the claustrophobic world of Baqa’a refugee camp, established in Jordan in the wake of the 1967 War.

Split between past and present, the present action follows Hawa, a 47-year-old divorced mother, as she spends the day excitedly anticipating her forthcoming wedding. The retrospective describes Hawa’s disturbing upbringing, disastrous first marriage and unusual friendship with her teacher.

As in her previous novels _The Origin of Love_ (2007) and _Before the Queen Falls Asleep_ (2011), Habayeb commands multiple threads of narrative and perspective expertly. In making _Velvet_ a tapestry of past and present, Habayeb provides a protagonist with substantial depth, making Hawa’s struggle against tragedy and malevolence all the more admirable and, ultimately, emotive.







Darkness and desire


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> There is no parent nation sponsoring a colonial action to bring the Arab Palestinians under domination or control.


I have posted about settler colonialism several times but you keep bouncing back to the classic colonialism straw man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ Israel recognized that the Arab Palestinians have the Right of Self-Determination.


Just not in Palestine. So where?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> As previously discussed, the Arab Palestinians have rejected all opportunities by the various powers to establish a peaceful state.


Israeli bullshit talking point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> No right can the Arab Palestinian claim that makes the rights of Israelis inferior.


What about Israel putting the Palestinian's rights inferior in their own homeland?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • 12/03/1982 A/RES/37/43 Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution •
> NON-BINDING RESOLUTION
> Importance of the universal realization of the *right of peoples to self-determination*
> and of the speedy *granting of independence to colonial countries* and peoples for
> the effective guarantee and observance of human rights


This resolution references international law that is binding.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the final question, I don’t really know.  Home demolitions seem to have zero impact, and I wonder if in fact it might even increase the violence? So why do it if it has no effect and is morally wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem, and this is the part you won't like, is that I think the deterrents must be stronger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In what way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where it gets unpalatable.  And I get that it is.
> 
> But, the only thing to do with an abusive partner, is to separate.  Completely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are right, I would not agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Which leads me back to the question.
> 
> What SHOULD Israel do to address/deter/respond to terrorism?
Click to expand...

What it is doing, but not demolishing homes.  Until they come up with a political solution, that is the best solution.

I disagree though with something else you said, that the “victims” wrong doing is not the source of the hate.  It is, in part, very much so. You can not unmix it.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  And returnees.
> 
> Why don't you take a shot at defining each?
Click to expand...


*Returnee*
: one who returns especially : one returning to the U.S. after military service overseas

*Settler*
:a person who moves with a group of others to live in a new country or area.
"the early European settlers in America were often fleeing from religious persecution"

*Immigrant
: *one that immigrates: such as
a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence


Returnee by definition implies one once resided there.  Settler and immigrant overlap considerable and one is often both.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

"Bad things never walk alone.  Insistence and demands on the impossible come bad consequences.
......................................................................................                                          ........._Chinese Proverb_​Interesting responses, or should I say unresponsive, you have made.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> As previously discussed, the Arab Palestinians have rejected all opportunities by the various powers to establish a peaceful state.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit talking point.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

If you are making an inference or suggestion that the Arab Palestinians has accepted opportunities for peace, in good faith, then give us the details on this event.  I suspect you have nothing of substance to support your suggestion.

◈  Article 9 (Charter): Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

◈  Article 13 (Covenant):  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.​
Who and When have these Arab Palestinian policy statements been rescinded?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> No right can the Arab Palestinian claim that makes the rights of Israelis inferior.
> 
> 
> 
> What about Israel putting the Palestinian's rights inferior in their own homeland?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The question of:  Palestinian's own homeland.  Just where is that?

As for rights in the homeland:  Not only does common sense dictate territorial peace, but the continuous belligerents of the Arab Palestinians demand that the Israelis suppress the hostility.

Article 43 Hague Regulation:  The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ Israel recognized that the Arab Palestinians have the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Just not in Palestine. So where?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It depends on the territorial meaning of the ambiguous term:  "Palestine."  When you say "Palestine" in this critique, what are you talking about?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no parent nation sponsoring a colonial action to bring the Arab Palestinians under domination or control.
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted about settler colonialism several times but you keep bouncing back to the classic colonialism straw man.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You may disagree with me on this point _(colonialism)_, but my responses are anything but an unresponsive Straw Man.  I think I have been quite definitive and have always given world-recognized documentation to the effect.  Just because you think it is colonialism, does not mean that the C-24 or the Encyclopædia Britannica _(just two of many resources quoted to you)_ are unresponsive or evidentiary.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You need to read the actual Binding Law.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • 12/03/1982 A/RES/37/43 Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution •
> NON-BINDING RESOLUTION
> Importance of the universal realization of the *right of peoples to self-determination*
> and of the speedy *granting of independence to colonial countries* and peoples for
> the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
> 
> 
> 
> This resolution references international law that is binding.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Nothing in the "references" of • 12/03/1982 A/RES/37/43 Right of peoples to self-determination - GA resolution • cited passages that supersede: THE *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) which entered into force on 23 March 1976 (BINDING).  If you are going to challenge the law, then be specific on which of the references you think are superior to the Covenant.

I'm looking for the specific passages and citations you keep suggesting exist.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> 
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> 
> Now we are becoming rather philosophical → with the question → Is Israel:
> 
> ✦  Perfect or Imperfect
> 
> ✦  Right or Wrong
> 
> ✦  Good or Evil​
> This is _(in a round-about way)_ claiming that the Israeli way of life and culture is fundamentally flawed, because the culture has not been proven to be "perfect," - "right," - "good."   And that the culture of Israel cannot be defending because the government, the way of life, the morality/ethics and the justice system is imperfect.
> 
> The question of Israel, from the Arab Palestinian perspective:
> 
> ✦  Views the establish of Israel as unlawful, improper, unprincipled or discordant because the Arab Palestinians were opposed to the process by which it employed the right of self-determination.
> 
> ✦  It severely criticizes the resurrection of the Jewish National Home when the path set by the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic, which renounced all rights and title - handing-over the territories in question into the hands of the Allied Powers and allowed the future of these territories to be settled by the parties to the Treaty → as an instrument of victory.
> 
> ✦  The concepts established through the Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate, and everything that has been based on them, are deemed null and void simply because the outcome is not to the satisfaction of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ✦  Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the conception of what constitutes statehood.
> 
> ✦  That Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality.
> 
> ✦  The Jews cannot establish their own nation with an identity of their own.
> 
> ✦  The Arab Palestinians are entitled to the entirety of Palestine, with the boundaries Palestine had during the British Mandate period.​And the Arab Palestine entangles America by claiming the Americans enable crimes and sins committed by the Jews against the Arab Palestinians, and that the Israelis have no right to the terriotrial integrity.
> 
> So, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believe that they are entitled something, based on an unknown, over actions taken since the end of The Great War (WWI).
> 
> Somehow, the Leaders of the various Arab Palestinian movements argue that sovereignty under their leadership would be - somehow - qualitatively better than that presented by the Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> The Zionist Project - 1948
Click to expand...


If so...then how do you account for the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?  How is that "living separate" from the existing population?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually really good. I agree, in theory, with your concepts.
> 
> Immigrants give up their (individual) rights to self determination, in favor of their assimilation with their new culture.
> 
> Colonizers impose their (collective) self determination on the existing population.
> 
> Returnees re-establish their (collective) self determination.
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in not recognizing Jewish indigeneity, Arab colonization and Jewish reclamation.
Click to expand...


But likewise - you are not recognizing Palestinian "indigenous".  They are a native people, not colonizers.  If Jews immigrating from around the world to Israel (as is their right granted by the state) are "returnees" despite never living there, then so are Palestinians pressing for their "right of return" despite several generations that have never set foot there.

You can't insist that native populations that have existed there as long as "indigenous" ones are "colonizers" when they have been there thousands of years.  The Israelites themselves were invaders on an earlier culture, the Canaanites (that no longer exists as a culture) but  many people who are there now descended from them as well as from other peoples who hav  invaded or immigrated through the ages. (and no this is not about the claim made by Palestinians that they are descended from the Canaanites, but about historical evidence in the region).

There is only one reason to do this and its the same ugly reason Tinmore uses to disenfranchise the Jewish rights there.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually really good. I agree, in theory, with your concepts.
> 
> Immigrants give up their (individual) rights to self determination, in favor of their assimilation with their new culture.
> 
> Colonizers impose their (collective) self determination on the existing population.
> 
> Returnees re-establish their (collective) self determination.
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in not recognizing Jewish indigeneity, Arab colonization and Jewish reclamation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But likewise - you are not recognizing Palestinian "indigenous".  They are a native people, not colonizers.  If Jews immigrating from around the world to Israel (as is their right granted by the state) are "returnees" despite never living there, then so are Palestinians pressing for their "right of return" despite several generations that have never set foot there.
> 
> You can't insist that native populations that have existed there as long as "indigenous" ones are "colonizers" when they have been there thousands of years.  The Israelites themselves were invaders on an earlier culture, the Canaanites (that no longer exists as a culture) but  many people who are there now descended from them as well as from other peoples who hav  invaded or immigrated through the ages. (and no this is not about the claim made by Palestinians that they are descended from the Canaanites, but about historical evidence in the region).
> 
> There is only one reason to do this and its the same ugly reason Tinmore uses to disenfranchise the Jewish rights there.
Click to expand...


Well, there are historical and factual errors in the above, as well as your confusion between individual and collective rights, but there is no point in beating that dead horse. 

You are absolutely in the wrong for suggesting my position is the same as Tinmore's, and since you do seem to read my posts, you must be doing it deliberately. 

I have always argued for self determination for BOTH peoples.  I have always argued for return of BOTH peoples.  I have always argued for a State for BOTH peoples. 

Painting my position as "ugly" and used to "disenfranchise" people is a vile lie against the position I have held here since my first post.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, yes.  And returnees.
> 
> Why don't you take a shot at defining each?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Returnee*
> : one who returns especially : one returning to the U.S. after military service overseas
> 
> *Settler*
> :a person who moves with a group of others to live in a new country or area.
> "the early European settlers in America were often fleeing from religious persecution"
> 
> *Immigrant
> : *one that immigrates: such as
> a: a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence
> 
> 
> Returnee by definition implies one once resided there.  Settler and immigrant overlap considerable and one is often both.
Click to expand...



You see all of these designations as individual rights, with no collective rights, it seems.  Perfectly consistent and sound position to take.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> What it is doing, but not demolishing homes.  Until they come up with a political solution, that is the best solution.


What is Israel doing?  Do you think it is enough to protect Israel's citizens and deter further terrorism?



> I disagree though with something else you said, that the “victims” wrong doing is not the source of the hate.  It is, in part, very much so. You can not unmix it.


 We are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually really good. I agree, in theory, with your concepts.
> 
> Immigrants give up their (individual) rights to self determination, in favor of their assimilation with their new culture.
> 
> Colonizers impose their (collective) self determination on the existing population.
> 
> Returnees re-establish their (collective) self determination.
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in not recognizing Jewish indigeneity, Arab colonization and Jewish reclamation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But likewise - you are not recognizing Palestinian "indigenous".  They are a native people, not colonizers.  If Jews immigrating from around the world to Israel (as is their right granted by the state) are "returnees" despite never living there, then so are Palestinians pressing for their "right of return" despite several generations that have never set foot there.
> 
> You can't insist that native populations that have existed there as long as "indigenous" ones are "colonizers" when they have been there thousands of years.  The Israelites themselves were invaders on an earlier culture, the Canaanites (that no longer exists as a culture) but  many people who are there now descended from them as well as from other peoples who hav  invaded or immigrated through the ages. (and no this is not about the claim made by Palestinians that they are descended from the Canaanites, but about historical evidence in the region).
> 
> There is only one reason to do this and its the same ugly reason Tinmore uses to disenfranchise the Jewish rights there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there are historical and factual errors in the above, as well as your confusion between individual and collective rights, but there is no point in beating that dead horse.
> 
> You are absolutely in the wrong for suggesting my position is the same as Tinmore's, and since you do seem to read my posts, you must be doing it deliberately.
> 
> I have always argued for self determination for BOTH peoples.  I have always argued for return of BOTH peoples.  I have always argued for a State for BOTH peoples.
> 
> Painting my position as "ugly" and used to "disenfranchise" people is a vile lie against the position I have held here since my first post.
Click to expand...


Shusha, I agree.  You have always argued for self determination for both sides.  But your insistence on referring to one side as "colonizers" echo's Tinmore's claims.  

So why do you do that?  What is the purpose when we both know that term is a slur in these conversations, as a vehicle for de-legitimizing.  I think you've pointed out to me that words matter.

When you repeatedly portray a group as "colonizers" (or invaders) - the implication is that they are recent arrivals, with out real rights to be there, when the reality is - their history in that place is so long, that their culture is integral to the region.

What is the PURPOSE in labeling one group "invaders" and "colonists" when factually, historically, their present there is well beyond a thousand years.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What it is doing, but not demolishing homes.  Until they come up with a political solution, that is the best solution.
> 
> 
> 
> What is Israel doing?  Do you think it is enough to protect Israel's citizens and deter further terrorism?
Click to expand...


I don't know exactly what they are doing, but attacks have decreased according to this: https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Palestinian/Pages/Wave-of-terror-October-2015.aspx

So I assume what they are doing is working.

Do I think it's enough?  I think it's a balancing act between maintaining freedom and protecting citizens.  If they come down too harshly in a way that disproportionately hurts law abiding Arab Israeli's - they will alienate that portion of their citizenry.

When we look at crime in the US - it's similar in that we will never eradicate violent crime, not without becoming a country we don't want to be - but if we keep it to a low enough level, and people FEEL safe, they would rather keep their freedoms and accept that - just an opinion.  A lot of it is how safe do people feel.  When Israel attacks positions where rockets have shot from - it reduces the number of rockets...maybe acts as a deterrent for a while, and people feel safer.





> I disagree though with something else you said, that the “victims” wrong doing is not the source of the hate.  It is, in part, very much so. You can not unmix it.


 We are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one.[/QUOTE]

Agree.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> But your insistence on referring to one side as "colonizers" echo's Tinmore's claims. So why do you do that?  What is the purpose when we both know that term is a slur in these conversations, as a vehicle for de-legitimizing.  I think you've pointed out to me that words matter.



I don't think it delegitimizes Arab Palestinians rights to self-determination and sovereignty one bit to acknowledge the factual reality that Arab culture was imported into the area through acts of deliberate colonization. Arguing that the collective Arab culture is an original culture while Jewish culture is an invading culture is an 180 degree inversion of reality.  For me, it is no different than acknowledging the importation of European culture into the Americas through colonization.  Its just a factual point of history.

You'll notice that I only bring up Arab colonization in very specific circumstances.  That is, to counter Tinmore's rejection of Jewish indigeneity and, consequently, rights to self-determination.   

The difference between Tinmore and me, is that Tinmore uses the idea of colonization to delegitimize one of the two groups.  I do not.  

Again, in your rush to paint both sides as being absolutely morally equivalent, you accuse me of being no better than Tinmore.  But in order to do that, you have to _deliberately misrepresent my position._


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But your insistence on referring to one side as "colonizers" echo's Tinmore's claims. So why do you do that?  What is the purpose when we both know that term is a slur in these conversations, as a vehicle for de-legitimizing.  I think you've pointed out to me that words matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it delegitimizes Arab Palestinians rights to self-determination and sovereignty one bit to acknowledge the factual reality that Arab culture was imported into the area through acts of deliberate colonization. Arguing that the collective Arab culture is an original culture while Jewish culture is an invading culture is an 180 degree inversion of reality.  For me, it is no different than acknowledging the importation of European culture into the Americas through colonization.  Its just a factual point of history.
Click to expand...


I absolutely disagree, it does delegitimize them.  It's implying that they are not native peoples and they are.  They are no more "colonists" than are the Jews who immigrated over from Europe.  It may not be the "original" culture (which, is actually lost in the mists of antiquity) - the only remaining original cultures would be the Jews and the Beduouin - but other NATIVE peoples, not an indigenous culture, but native to the region as invaders and colonists is to portray them in a negative light and as having less right to place.  You don't intend that, and I don't think you do  - but that is what it de facto does.



> You'll notice that I only bring up Arab colonization in very specific circumstances.  That is, to counter Tinmore's rejection of Jewish indigeneity and, consequently, rights to self-determination.



True, but let me gently point out - I have been lambasted for the same sort of thing, using particular arguments to counter arguments that reject Palestinian rights as a native people in that region.  It's made me very conscious of words.



> The difference between Tinmore and me, is that Tinmore uses the idea of colonization to delegitimize one of the two groups.  I do not.



I don't think you intend to, but it does do that.  I do think Tinmore intends to, because he has repeatedly in many different ways indicated that Jews do not have the same rights as Palestinians.



> Again, in your rush to paint both sides as being absolutely morally equivalent, you accuse me of being no better than Tinmore.  But in order to do that, you have to _deliberately misrepresent my position._



I'm not trying to "paint both sides as being absolutely morally equivalent" - I think you are much much better than Tinmore and your arguments are fair and consistent.  But words MATTER and choosing to use certain terms matters.  It's been repeatedly pointed out to me that even if the intent isn't there - using certain terms, words and arguments end up implying something that totally wasn't intended.  When Tinmore uses "colonists" and "invaders" he has something definite in mind.  But the terms themselves in the context of this forum are loaded with meaning. The you apply them to the Palestinian/Israeli Arab population - it does the same thing even if not intended.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idea that Israel is not perfect, right, or good is a distraction from the real issue. The real issue is the settler colonial project.
> 
> Settler colonialism is when the natives are removed and they are replaced by foreign settlers. It is an aggressive act. This was started before 1948 and continues to today.
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> The Zionist Project - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If so...then how do you account for the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?  How is that "living separate" from the existing population?
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?



They didn't. The native Jews did not want a Jewish state either. They saw it as creating generations of war. And, of course, they were correct.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t exactly what happened.  Accurate historical numbers are problematic in that region, but by and large it was found that Jewish immigration did not displace native Arab populations.  The Jews tended to settle in different areas.  With war, things changed, both Jews and Arabs were forced out of various areas, some through violence, some through well founded fear.
> 
> The problem with the often repeated meme of Jews as colonists is what does that make the foriegn  Arabs who came to region from other countries, looking for jobs, and stayed?  Are they colonists too?
> 
> 
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> The Zionist Project - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If so...then how do you account for the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?  How is that "living separate" from the existing population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't. The native Jews did not want a Jewish state either. They saw it as creating generations of war. And, of course, they were correct.
Click to expand...


They DID join the native Jewish population though.  And feelings about a Jewish state were mixed among all Jews - just like feelings about national self determination were mixed in Catalonia recently.  It doesn't change the fact that they joined with the existing culture there.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> It depends on the territorial meaning of the ambiguous term: "Palestine." When you say "Palestine" in this critique, what are you talking about?


Inside their international borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose war?
> 
> There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a big difference. Immigrants move to a country to join the existing population and become a part of that society.
> 
> Settlers move to a country to live separate (in colonies) from the existing population with the plan to remove them and take over for themselves.
> 
> There is a complete difference in the purpose.
> 
> The Zionist Project - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If so...then how do you account for the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?  How is that "living separate" from the existing population?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that they immigrated to Israel and JOINED the existing Jewish population there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They didn't. The native Jews did not want a Jewish state either. They saw it as creating generations of war. And, of course, they were correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They DID join the native Jewish population though.  And feelings about a Jewish state were mixed among all Jews - just like feelings about national self determination were mixed in Catalonia recently.  It doesn't change the fact that they joined with the existing culture there.
Click to expand...

This is not new. It has been like that since before there was an Israel.


----------



## admonit

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian  people to self determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...
> 
> 
> 
> *No one* *makes the claim* that Arab Palestinians do not have the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to Palestine...
Click to expand...

Wrong.


> *IF and ONLY IF* → the Arab Palestinians recognizing these same rights in the Israeli people


The Jewish people. The rights of the Jewish people.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## Ropey

I don't think that these guys quite understand what low yield wide dispersion tactical nukes are capable of and their kill ratios ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













America's just getting them together while Israel's had them for literally years.  It's Israeli miniaturization tech as well.  These guys will be the 'walking dead'.

Low-Yield Nuclear Weapons Won’t End the World

Stop it already.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But your insistence on referring to one side as "colonizers" echo's Tinmore's claims. So why do you do that?  What is the purpose when we both know that term is a slur in these conversations, as a vehicle for de-legitimizing.  I think you've pointed out to me that words matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it delegitimizes Arab Palestinians rights to self-determination and sovereignty one bit to acknowledge the factual reality that Arab culture was imported into the area through acts of deliberate colonization. Arguing that the collective Arab culture is an original culture while Jewish culture is an invading culture is an 180 degree inversion of reality.  For me, it is no different than acknowledging the importation of European culture into the Americas through colonization.  Its just a factual point of history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I absolutely disagree, it does delegitimize them.  It's implying that they are not native peoples and they are.  They are no more "colonists" than are the Jews who immigrated over from Europe.  It may not be the "original" culture (which, is actually lost in the mists of antiquity) - the only remaining original cultures would be the Jews and the Beduouin - but other NATIVE peoples, not an indigenous culture, but native to the region as invaders and colonists is to portray them in a negative light and as having less right to place.  You don't intend that, and I don't think you do  - but that is what it de facto does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll notice that I only bring up Arab colonization in very specific circumstances.  That is, to counter Tinmore's rejection of Jewish indigeneity and, consequently, rights to self-determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but let me gently point out - I have been lambasted for the same sort of thing, using particular arguments to counter arguments that reject Palestinian rights as a native people in that region.  It's made me very conscious of words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference between Tinmore and me, is that Tinmore uses the idea of colonization to delegitimize one of the two groups.  I do not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think you intend to, but it does do that.  I do think Tinmore intends to, because he has repeatedly in many different ways indicated that Jews do not have the same rights as Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, in your rush to paint both sides as being absolutely morally equivalent, you accuse me of being no better than Tinmore.  But in order to do that, you have to _deliberately misrepresent my position._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to "paint both sides as being absolutely morally equivalent" - I think you are much much better than Tinmore and your arguments are fair and consistent.  But words MATTER and choosing to use certain terms matters.  It's been repeatedly pointed out to me that even if the intent isn't there - using certain terms, words and arguments end up implying something that totally wasn't intended.  When Tinmore uses "colonists" and "invaders" he has something definite in mind.  But the terms themselves in the context of this forum are loaded with meaning. The you apply them to the Palestinian/Israeli Arab population - it does the same thing even if not intended.
Click to expand...


You are coloring the issue with unintended meaning when there is no need to do so, especially given that you know my position with respect to Arab Palestinian self determination.  Arab colonization and the intentional spread of Arabic culture is simply an historical fact.  Just as European colonization of the Americas is an historical fact.  It doesn't do the discussion any favors to pretend that these facts don't exist and don't have an impact, either historically, or today when Palestine lays claim to being a part of the Arab world, the Arab nation and Arab unity.  We (you and I), unlike Tinmore, can and SHOULD discuss these realities without layering on the additional propaganda that Tinmore does in his rush to delegitimatize Israel.  

You and I can and should be able to discuss Jewish migration, Arab colonization, knowing that the context is self determination and sovereignty for both peoples.  That is what is going to elevate this conversation.  Instead of permitting the Tinmores to create extended meanings for words in order to demonize, let's understand and accurately acknowledge historical facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A primary school student was injured by Israeli occupation forces fire while raiding Al Issawiya village in the occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Video shows the destruction in a UNRWA school caused by the Israeli air strike that targeted the house of the Islamic Jihad leader Baha' Abu Ata, killing him and his wife, and injuring his four children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation warplanes targeted an apartment in a multi-storey residential building, west of Gaza.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation warplanes targeted an apartment in a multi-storey residential building, west of Gaza.



Awfully precise.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli warplanes blast the Red Crescent building

GAZA, (PIC)-- Israeli warplanes shelled the main headquarters of the Palestinian Red Crescent (PRC) and its Quds Hospital west of Gaza Strip before noon Wednesday.

A field observer told Quds Press that Israeli warplanes blasted the upper floor of the PRC building and the hospital’s premises.

Israeli occupation forces had razed the PRC building in the 2008-2009 aggression, but it was rebuilt.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

_For the Palestinians who insist on taking all of Palestine, there is no hope. Israelis will never give up their state. The best that the Palestinians can realistically hope for is an independent Palestinian state next to Israel, and the only way to achieve that is for the Palestinians to put down their weapons and negotiate a peace agreement with Israel.

If the Palestinian cause consists of achieving that goal then every Palestinian terrorist is a traitor to the Palestinian cause. Not a martyr. Not a resistance fighter. Not a soldier. Not a Palestinian patriot. No, just a traitor.

And if the Palestinian cause consists of pursuing the dream of taking back all of Palestine then the Palestinian cause is dead, just like the tens of thousands of Palestinians killed in the seven decades of conflict with Israel. Dead._

When will the Palestinians wake up?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli warplanes blast the Red Crescent building
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)-- Israeli warplanes shelled the main headquarters of the Palestinian Red Crescent (PRC) and its Quds Hospital west of Gaza Strip before noon Wednesday.
> 
> A field observer told Quds Press that Israeli warplanes blasted the upper floor of the PRC building and the hospital’s premises.
> 
> Israeli occupation forces had razed the PRC building in the 2008-2009 aggression, but it was rebuilt.




2014.

You know its only just past midnight Wednesday in Israel, right?


----------



## Mindful




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Maysa Daw ft. Joss Stone - Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

This is my land and this is my country, you're the one who should leave..
Palestine❤️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Zionism is, and always has been, a colonial project. Zionist leaders understood that the only way to manufacture a Zionist majority in Palestine was to drive out the indigenous Palestinian population and settle Zionist people in their place.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation militias brutalize Muslim worshipers inside Al-Aqsa Mosque soon after they prayer Eid Al-dha.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian farmer harvests grapes at a vineyard in Gaza City. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian young man sells newly-picked figs on a Gaza street.


----------



## Ropey

These are the 'poor ISIS children' leftists want to bring back into our societies. There are pictures/videos of them beheading tied victims. Some are from Gaza.


What rehabilitation program guarantees safety from these indoctrinated ones?

"We are going to slaughter you.... he says.... repeatedly.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

A rocket strikes a home in southern Israel. Just imagine this was your kitchen. Imagine this was where your family lived.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Grape festival.


----------



## Ropey

What Palestinian terrorists in Gaza are doing, is committing a Double War Crime:

They are hiding behind civilian areas in Gaza, while indiscriminately firing at civilian areas in Israel while...


...tinmore shows cutsie pics in an attempt to shell game the world.


----------



## Rambunctious

Blood thirsty.....


----------



## Ropey

Hama's benefactor Qatar hooks up with Bloomberg.  Quelle Suprise? While Michael runs for President? 

Another Shell game ... boys.






Al Jazeera (Qatar) partners with Bloomberg to expand business coverage


----------



## Ropey

This was another 'shell game'. It started off the Syrian 'migration'.


----------



## Ropey

A DC "Charity", the U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights USCPR, is charged with violating the anti-Terrorism Act by providing funding to Hamas and other designated terrorist organizations...


...who are responsible for killing Israeli civilians and burning fields







Charity-aiding-hamas' criminal activities...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> This is my land and this is my country, you're the one who should leave..
> Palestine❤️



Poor Tinmore. He can’t stand the recognition of Israel under ANY circumstance.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Zionism is, and always has been, a colonial project. Zionist leaders understood that the only way to manufacture a Zionist majority in Palestine was to drive out the indigenous Palestinian population and settle Zionist people in their place.



Except that the manufactured Palestinian people aren't indigenous to Eretz Yisrael.  I was just in Israel last week.  My aunt told me of her grandparents who died in a cattle car train in Europe, on the way to a concentration camp, because there was no air for them to breathe.  The Jewish people need one place in the world to really call their own.


----------



## P F Tinmore

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2019-10/dianabuttueipodcastmp3.mp3


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Right of Return Conference Day 1: Identities on Display: Collective Identity and Daily Practice*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

This baby survived an Israeli massacre that killed 8 of her family members this dawn. An Israeli warplane attacked their home in Deir al-Balah City in central Gaza while they were sleeping.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A number of Palestinians were injured as Israeli occupation forces suppressed a sit-in held in Bethlehem in solidarity with #MoathAmarnih, a journalist who lost his eye after being shot by Israeli occupation soldiers near the West Bank town of Surif.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Identities on Display: Collective Identity and Daily Practice*
> 
> **





P F Tinmore said:


> *Right of Return Conference Day 1: Identities on Display: Collective Identity and Daily Practice*
> 
> **






Palestinians agreed only 10,000 refugees could return to Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Janna Jihad*
*My Life as a Child Living Under Israeli Military Occupation*
The Jerusalem Fund & Palestine Center
*
*


----------



## Ropey

U.S._ socialist human rights group_ charged for funding Palestinian balloon terror


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

#JANNA JIHAD on USA TOUR in JULY/AUGUST 2019

13 year old Palestinian activist, journalist and Shamsaan Ambassador
to Visit Major US Cities

(July 9, 2019) – Janna Jihad, 13 year-old Palestinian activist, one of the youngest accredited journalists in the world, and Ambassador of South African children’s rights organization (Shamsaan – 2 Suns) will begin a month-long US of the United States this week. Janna hails from the village of Nabi Saleh, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, which from 2009 
conducted weekly protests against Israel’s occupation and confiscation of Palestinian land and resources. Janna will be on tour for the very first time in the USA.

Last summer Janna undertook a successful speaking tour to South Africa, where, among other things, she participated in Nelson Mandela’s centenary birthday freedom walk. In the US, Janna is scheduled to speak on Capitol Hill and dialogue with noted personalities such as Dr. Marc Lamont Hill and Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman. But, primarily, Janna hopes to engage with broad sections of the American public, and especially with activists fighting for justice in their own communities, and with youth.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi 'We are all fighting for our freedom as Palestinians'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel was established and is now expanding through the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

Keep it up boys.

Pull back the stump.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


 
YAWN..,,,  “ From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

'Israel' is not normal at all.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

An Israeli soldier assaults a Palestinian woman trying to provide first aid to an injured youth during a raid on Tuqu' town in Bethlehem. The Israeli forces didn't only shoot the unarmed youth, but also attempted to detain him although he suffered serious wounds.
Long live women of Palestine!


----------



## P F Tinmore

An Israeli soldier humiliates a handcuffed Palestinian shepherd in the Jordan Valley. Palestinian shepherds there are regularly attacked, arrested, forced out of their lands, and ordered to stop grazing their sheep by the Israeli soldiers and settlers.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Conversation with Dubai Initiative Research Fellow Diana Buttu*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Christian Quarter in the Old City of Occupied Jerusalem. Photo by Latifeh Abdellatif.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> The Christian Quarter in the Old City of Occupied Jerusalem. Photo by Latifeh Abdellatif.



You should go visit.  It's beautiful.  It would've been destroyed had it been left under Palestinian Muslim hands.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>








"Modern" Jordanian TV host calls to "gouge out the eyes of Zionists"

  YAWN...... The " GREAT MARCH OF RETURN??'


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






  Here we go again; Posting the above out of ignorance, stupidity, and Rage.    Palestinians DENY Jewish Heritage and History,   The Hasidic obviously do not.
   Tinmore would have you believe that the Ultra Orthodox and Hamas agree.  The opposite is true. 



In the words of the (as expounded by Rashi), the people were adjured not to return collectively to the Land of Israel by the exertion of physical force, nor to “rebel against the nations of the world,” nor to “hasten the End.” In short, they were required to wait for the heavenly, complete, miraculous, supernatural, and meta-historical redemption that is totally distinct from the realm of human endeavor. This waiting over two millennia manifests the very essence and singularity of the Jewish people, expressing their faith in divine providence, in the assurance of the prophets, and in messianic destiny.

In this understanding, the Jewish people have been removed from the causal laws that govern nature and history and are exclusively bound by another set of religio-ethical laws within a causal process of reward and punishment, exile and redemption: “Unless the Lord build the house, its builders labor in vain; unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman keeps vigil in vain” (Psalms 127:1).

Accordingly, any Jewish political revival that is not messianic intrinsically represents a denial of divine providence and of the hope of redemption; it is a betrayal of the destiny and uniqueness of Israel. The attempt to hasten the End, to return by physical power to the sphere of political–and certainly military–history is a collective revolt against the kingdom of heaven, an aggressive aspiration to overstep human boundaries into the realm reserved for God–just like the deeds of the generation of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1 -9). This is an act of the devil, a demonic outburst of unclean forces that may not be corrected. It is ultimately doomed to failure, regardless of human deeds: “The Lord shall rebuke you–the Satan who has chosen Jerusalem” (paraphrasing Zechariah 3:2).


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The Christian Quarter in the Old City of Occupied Jerusalem. Photo by Latifeh Abdellatif.








    The Jewish Quarter in the OLD CITY of Jerusalem.

   Where they were DENIED entry prior to 1967.  NEVER AGAIN


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers assault Palestinian medics during a West Bank protest against the settlement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian nurse Ali Hassanein, 57, who makes oud instruments, at his workshop in the West Bank city of Nablus. Photo by Shadi Jarar’ah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ras Karkar village, west of Ramallah.


----------



## Mindful

*Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel*
by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •  November 19, 2019 at 5:00 am



Hamas is hardly on its way to transforming itself into a non-violent movement that would uphold Israel's right to exist. Its decision to refrain, this time, from pounding Israel with rockets is in no way a sign of moderation or pragmatism. Instead, the terror group needs a break from the fighting in order to prepare better for its main goal: to take down Israel down, once and for all.


Hamas leaders – like their PIJ counterparts – are motivated for their own well-being; the well-being of the two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip is a joke to them. Why else would PIJ endanger their people by forcing Israel to respond to the launching of hundreds of rockets toward Israeli civilian communities?


This is not a good guy/bad guy scenario. Instead, it is a temporary rift between two extremely bad guys, both of whom are wholly committed to destroying Israel, even if that means destroying their own people along the way as well.

Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Ras Karkar village, west of Ramallah.



Nice view.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> *Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel*
> by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •  November 19, 2019 at 5:00 am
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is hardly on its way to transforming itself into a non-violent movement that would uphold Israel's right to exist. Its decision to refrain, this time, from pounding Israel with rockets is in no way a sign of moderation or pragmatism. Instead, the terror group needs a break from the fighting in order to prepare better for its main goal: to take down Israel down, once and for all.
> 
> 
> Hamas leaders – like their PIJ counterparts – are motivated for their own well-being; the well-being of the two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip is a joke to them. Why else would PIJ endanger their people by forcing Israel to respond to the launching of hundreds of rockets toward Israeli civilian communities?
> 
> 
> This is not a good guy/bad guy scenario. Instead, it is a temporary rift between two extremely bad guys, both of whom are wholly committed to destroying Israel, even if that means destroying their own people along the way as well.
> Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel





Mindful said:


> Why else would PIJ endanger their people by forcing Israel to respond to the launching of hundreds of rockets toward Israeli civilian communities?


Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians since long before there was a PIJ or Hamas.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel*
> by *Khaled Abu Toameh*  •  November 19, 2019 at 5:00 am
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas is hardly on its way to transforming itself into a non-violent movement that would uphold Israel's right to exist. Its decision to refrain, this time, from pounding Israel with rockets is in no way a sign of moderation or pragmatism. Instead, the terror group needs a break from the fighting in order to prepare better for its main goal: to take down Israel down, once and for all.
> 
> 
> Hamas leaders – like their PIJ counterparts – are motivated for their own well-being; the well-being of the two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip is a joke to them. Why else would PIJ endanger their people by forcing Israel to respond to the launching of hundreds of rockets toward Israeli civilian communities?
> 
> 
> This is not a good guy/bad guy scenario. Instead, it is a temporary rift between two extremely bad guys, both of whom are wholly committed to destroying Israel, even if that means destroying their own people along the way as well.
> Iran's Palestinian Proxies: United Against Israel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why else would PIJ endanger their people by forcing Israel to respond to the launching of hundreds of rockets toward Israeli civilian communities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians since long before there was a PIJ or Hamas.
Click to expand...


There's a thought.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces heavily fire tear gas canisters at the journalists who were covering a protest in al-Bireh City, West Bank, over the death of the Palestinian prisoner Bassam al-Sayeh in Israeli jails.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces heavily fire tear gas canisters at the journalists who were covering a protest in al-Bireh City, West Bank, over the death of the Palestinian prisoner Bassam al-Sayeh in Israeli jails.



You've got it bad today.

IDS


----------



## P F Tinmore

The stunning fields of Burin village, Nablus, occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian schoolgirls wait at a closed gate in al-Khalil after Israeli forces blocked roads and tightened movement restrictions in the city ahead of Netanyahu's visit to the Ibrahimi Mosque.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian schoolgirls wait at a closed gate in al-Khalil after Israeli forces blocked roads and tightened movement restrictions in the city ahead of Netanyahu's visit to the Ibrahimi Mosque.



The city is called Hebron, and the so-called "mosque" is the Tomb of the Patriarchs.


----------



## Ropey

Keep it up pals.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL,



ILOVEISRAEL said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Yeah, as an American, I don't even try to understand the many difference facets, types and kinds there are -- to being Jewish.  On top of that, there are several other aspects to their culture that must be considered.  The State of Israel is a factor

I appreciate just how difficult and complex it must be for the Israeli society with so many different aspects to the overall culture.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Houston Palestinian Festival Fashion Show*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Incitement?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation Bulldozers demolishing two buildings under construction in the occupied #Jerusalem.‬
‪#EthnicCleansing


----------



## P F Tinmore

Back to school in the occupied Palestine !!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A protest in the occupied WestBank against the Apartheid Wall and the Zionist settlements west of Ramallah .


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces banned Madlin Abu Issa ( right ) from entering Al Aqsa mosque compound for 4 months and Shefaa Abu Ghalia ( left ) for 2 months.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Translation;  Israel has no right to defend themselves at all even IF they went back to “ 67 Borders” and allowed “ Right of Return”
  Talk about obsession and desperation


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the occupied Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Israeli" Government is planning to ban Congresswomen Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar from entering the country ahead of a planned delegation. State authorities routinely uses the tactic of entry denial against individuals who openly support Palestinian human rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The damage that caused by Zionist colonizers after attacking Palestinian home in the village of Nahalim near Bethlehem.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation;  Israel has no right to defend themselves at all even IF they went back to “ 67 Borders” and allowed “ Right of Return”
> Talk about obsession and desperation
Click to expand...


Glad you think it’s funny. I do. Didn’t realize until recently you are obsessed with Israel not existing and being wiped off the map
   Please, keep obsessing along with those Hasidic Jews you fell in love with


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

"Palestinian" Arab mother defends the murder of innocent Israelis

The Goal of every Proud " Palestinian" Mother "


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from the occupied Palestine




  So now, ALL of " Palestine" is " occupied?"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The Ironic History of Palestine |  History News         Network


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*OBLITERATED Maxine Peake and Farah Chamma*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Photos of the martyrs "Naseem Abu Roumi" and "Hamouda Khader al-Sheikh" (14 years) from the town of Ezariya in the occupied #Jerusalem who was shot dead by Israeli occupation forces moments ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

During a protest in Brighton


----------



## P F Tinmore

Eid Mubarak from Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Jerusalem’s Dome of the Rock viewed from the West Bank village of al-Ezariya.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Photos of the martyrs "Naseem Abu Roumi" and "Hamouda Khader al-Sheikh" (14 years) from the town of Ezariya in the occupied #Jerusalem who was shot dead by Israeli occupation forces moments ago.



What did the two expect when stabbing policemen? 

Glorification of a shahid who recently perpetrated a stabbing attack, at an annual ceremony of appreciation for high school and university graduates in the village of Al-Eizariya


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sponsored by AIPAC, a delegation of Democrats representatives arrived in the occupied Palestine and reaffirmed support for apartheid Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the occupied Jerusalem ❤️
Have a blessed Friday ☺️


----------



## rylah

*Hamas calls for the mass-murder of Jews worldwide*

Fathi Hamad, a senior member of the terror organization Hamas is openly calling for the mass-murder of Jews through suicide bombings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud Professional Drifter : Female driver from Palestine pilots 850hp BMW E46*

**


----------



## rylah

*Super Rich Palestinians*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces demand "Mohammed Abou Tair" pay 2 million Shekels for explosives they used to destroy his house two weeks ago in Wadi Alhummus, Jerusalem city.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli snipers shot 2 Palestinian photojournalists while they were covering the protests along the barbed fence to east of Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Queen Raina leads protest to condemn Israeli action*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Chicago Palestinian Film Festival 2019 - WestBank Narratives*

**


----------



## Ropey

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.






GAZA-based Islamic Jihad terrorists killed by the IDF.


----------



## Ropey

GAZA Kite flying ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Artist Najat El-Khairy's Invitation To The Ninth Annual International Al-Awda Convention*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> During a protest in Brighton



Notice he refused to respond to “ No Israelis in “ Palestine?”   
   Don’t know which is funnier; this or the You Tube Video of HASIDIC Jews and HAMAS dancing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Narratives of Hope: Palestine in Literature*

Mostly English with some Arabic.

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Narratives of Hope: Palestine in Literature*
> 
> Mostly English with some Arabic.
> 
> **








*Mention of words "Israeli" and "Palestinian" in American literature 1500-2008*

I guess new trends take time to grow...
Like assimilated Arabs learning to pronounce the "P" in "Palestinian".

Notice who came after whom?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces demand "Mohammed Abou Tair" pay 2 million Shekels for explosives they used to destroy his house two weeks ago in Wadi Alhummus, Jerusalem city.





His "house"?

You mean his unfinished, illegally built, 10 story apartment block?

Good.  Scammers like this should be hit in the wallets.


----------



## Ropey

It's not hard to see how the pals teach their children.


----------



## Ropey

Don't cry when it comes.

Gaza's Hamas *rulers *must choose between Iran and their own people

And all the pal leftist apologists can watch in comfort at what they have stirred up lo these years.

Know'm saying?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian couple from the occupied Jerusalem


----------



## Ropey

Yes, keep on showing reasons for crying after ....

.... while the pals hide the kids in launching sites.

Nice pic tho...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Leaving 1,300 Palestinians and 225 children homeless. ‬


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Ethnic Cleansing ..!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## member

P F Tinmore said:


> Ethnic Cleansing ..!!





 *"Ethnic Cleansing ..!!"*








All I keep thinking is:  

 a "Terrorist free-zone."





 











​


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian couple from the occupied Jerusalem



What is “ occupied” E. Jerusalem or all of Jerusalem?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian couple from the occupied Jerusalem




M 


  Jews praying at the Western Wall in E. JERUSALEM which used to be occupied by Jordan

  OMG !!!!!  Did I see Orthodox and Hasidic Jews there????


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

*Jordanian period*
During the nineteen years of Jordanian rule, a third of the Jewish Quarter's buildings were demolished.[29] According to Chief Rabbi Rabbi I H Herzog speaking in Tel Aviv in June 1948, of 27 synagogues in the Old City, 22 had been "razed by fire and explosives".[30] As part a letter sent by Israel to the United Nations in 1968 in response to Jordanian complaints, it was stated all but one of the thirty-five "Jewish houses of worship" in the Old City were destroyed and that "the synagogues" were "razed or pillaged and stripped and their interiors used as hen-houses or stables."[23] According to Dore Gold addressing the United Nations Security Council in 1998, "Fifty-eight synagogues, including the 700-year-old Hurva synagogue, were destroyed and desecrated."[31] In the wake of the 1948 war, the Red Cross housed Palestinian refugees in the depopulated and partly destroyed Jewish Quarter.[32] This grew into the Muaska refugee camp managed by UNRWA, which housed refugees from 48 locations now in Israel.[33] Over time many poor non-refugees also settled in the camp.[33] Conditions became unsafe for habitation due to lack of maintenance and sanitation.[33] Jordan had planned transforming the quarter into a park,[34] but neither UNRWA nor the Jordanian government wanted the negative international response that would result if they demolished the old Jewish houses.[33] In 1964 a decision was made to move the refugees to a new camp constructed near Shuafat.[33] Most of the refugees refused to move, since it would mean losing their livelihood, the market and the tourists, as well as reducing their access to the holy sites.[33] In the end, many of the refugees were moved to Shuafat by force during 1965 and 1966.[32][3

  Never again Tinmore.  Deal with it


----------



## P F Tinmore

*US Policy and the Question of Jerusalem*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib: My colleagues don’t know what occupation means*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Festival of Literature: Ahdaf Soueif at TEDxIIMRanchi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*2018 Houston Palestinian Festival Wedding*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib: My colleagues don’t know what occupation means*
> 
> **



She meant to say people don't know "MY SPECIAL DEFINITION OF OCCUPATION",
which is a code word to banning Jewish presence in Judea and anywhere in Israel.

And no there's no wall around Gaza, she's as usual knowingly lying.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rep. Rashida Tlaib: My colleagues don’t know what occupation means*
> 
> **



She talks about Bernie Sanders. What she “ forgets “ to mention is that he believes Israel has the Right to exist and in 2015 he publicly stated that Hamas does not believe Israel has the Right to exist
  Keep posting !


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



*Qatari Traditional Dance*

*
How does a Qatari traditional dance and music turn into a "traditional Palestinian dance",
did the dance, or they themselves come from Qatar?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

16 July 2014. Palestinian girl injured in an Israeli airstrike on Khan Younis, the southern Gaza Strip area. 
Photo by Ezz al-Zanoun.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Occupation Forces arrest Shrooq Mohammed Al-Badin, 25, while raiding on house of her relatives in town of Tuqu', southeast of Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hundreds of Palestinian flags were hung by the roads connecting Israeli settlements in WestBank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from the occupied Palestine  

⭕ Reminder || the Zionist occupation of Palestine has been lasting for 25,963 days so far.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from the occupied Palestine
> 
> ⭕ Reminder || the Zionist occupation of Palestine has been lasting for 25,963 days so far.



Are you counting from 1948 or 1967?  If you're counting from 1948, then you're repeating the mistakes of BDS, and the lives of your precious so-called Palestinians will never improve.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Hundreds of Palestinian flags were hung by the roads connecting Israeli settlements in WestBank.




Are you sure those aren't Jordanian flags?  Funny how the Israeli flags are completely unique.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Hundreds of Palestinian flags were hung by the roads connecting Israeli settlements in WestBank.



Yes; the area where E. Jerusalem is. Let them fly their flags. Keep posting


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Outright lies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Unfortunately he paid the price for the brutal kidnapping and murder of 3 innocent Israeli teenage boys.


----------



## toastman

15 years since the Hatuel family was massacred by Palestinians (a pregnant Tali Hatuel and her four daughters)

Murder of Hatuel family - Wikipedia

The difference between Israelis and Palestinians , Tinmore, is that when the Hatuel family was murdered, Palestinians handed out candy and celebrated. 

What do you have to say about that Tinmore?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Yes, a horrific story.

But you know what's different?

His murderers are in jail.
While if Mohammah Adbu Khdeir did the same to an Israeli boy,
he'd be made a hero and receive a fat salary from the the PA.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toastman said:


> 15 years since the Hatuel family was massacred by Palestinians (a pregnant Tali Hatuel and her four daughters)
> 
> Murder of Hatuel family - Wikipedia
> 
> The difference between Israelis and Palestinians , Tinmore, is that when the Hatuel family was murdered, Palestinians handed out candy and celebrated.
> 
> What do you have to say about that Tinmore?



Also, the death of that Arab boy didn't just come out of nowhere.  The whole nation of Israel had been traumatised by the kidnapping and slaughter of 3 Israeli teens.


----------



## toastman

Still waiting for Tinmore to give his 2 cents on how Palestinians celebrate the murder of innocent Israelis, while Israel puts them in jail.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians sitting on the rubble of their house, which was demolished by the Israeli occupation forces in Yatta, south of the occupied #Hebron.


----------



## toastman

That's what I thought Tinmore. 
No response, as usual...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*ABC strangely silent as Hamas leader calls **on Palestinians 
around the world to murder Jews.*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *ABC strangely silent as Hamas leader calls **on Palestinians
> around the world to murder Jews.*
> 
> **


Hamas bounced him for that.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ABC strangely silent as Hamas leader calls **on Palestinians
> around the world to murder Jews.*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas bounced him for that.
Click to expand...


For the Western media maybe, but they keep as usual in Arabic:

*
Senior Hamas Official Fathi Hammad - broadcast by the Hamas-owned Al-Aqsa TV channel.*

*Hamas promises:*
"On this day, as we are witnessing all that is happening with the grace of Allah, we are looking forwards to two important things, which are within sight:

Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022
From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Session 11 Embedding Palestine into American pop culture*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>










Three iSRAELIS KIDNAPPED AND KILLED - Google Search:


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


>


Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
Click to expand...

The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
Click to expand...


Is it because you know them,
or because PC agenda doesn't allow to associate Arabs with any kind of responsibility for their choices and actions?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it because you know them,
> or because PC agenda doesn't allow to associate Arabs with any kind of responsibility for their choices and actions?
Click to expand...

The Palestinians did not choose to be colonized by Europeans.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it because you know them,
> or because PC agenda doesn't allow to associate Arabs with any kind of responsibility for their choices and actions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did not choose to be colonized by Europeans.
Click to expand...







It was their own choice to side with Britain, and aid them militarily,
in yet another Arab attempt to fortify their colonial hold over the entire middle east.

They're like the kid with a full diaper
walking around the room blaming everyone for the stink.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it because you know them,
> or because PC agenda doesn't allow to associate Arabs with any kind of responsibility for their choices and actions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians did not choose to be colonized by Europeans.
Click to expand...


What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *rylah*
> It was their own choice to side with Britain, and aid them militarily,
> in yet another Arab attempt to fortify their colonial hold over the entire middle east.
> 
> They're like the kid with a full diaper
> walking around the room blaming everyone for the stink.








LOL

You know your opponents in a debate have a weak case in their hands when they don't even bother, don't even try and deny the land theft carried out by Ukrainians and Russians in Palestine.

They just try to convince you the europeans didn't steal "too much" land.


----------



## Mindful

If we are doing tit-for-tat.

Stolen?

The lands of the Ottoman Empire belonged to other people well before the Ottomans got there—


----------



## Mindful

Since  "Palestine" never was a state, how could land be stolen from something that never was? "Palestine" was what the ancient Romans called the ancient (ex-)kingdom of Israel after the Romans burnt down the Second Temple in Jerusalem.


----------



## José

The lands of the Ottoman Empire belonged to other people well before the Ottomans got there​




​Sure they did...

They belonged to the jewish ancestors of the arabized people of Palestine not to Poles and Belarussians whose ancestors happened to change religion.


----------



## José

*Since "Palestine" never was a state*, how could land be stolen from something that never was? "Palestine" was what the ancient Romans called the ancient (ex-)kingdom of Israel after the Romans burnt down the Second Temple in Jerusalem.




​This is ironic because the fact that native americans had no concept of private property and land possession, let alone, the sophisticated western notions of country and nation-state, doesn't seem to have prevented this jewish-american leader holding an american flag from marching against racial segregation and in favor of compensation for the land theft and historic losses of the native inhabitants:


----------



## Mindful

I try not to do equivalence.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib Successfully Petitions & Passes An Amendment*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> If we are doing tit-for-tat.
> 
> Stolen?
> 
> The lands of the Ottoman Empire belonged to other people well before the Ottomans got there—


That is true. The majority of cities and villages in Palestine predate the Ottoman Empire. Who owned the land back then? How did the Empire get that land? Well that is what imperial/colonial powers do. Everything of value just "happens" to fall into their hands.

People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Thousands of Gazans perform Eid AlFitr prayers at eastern borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrest the Palestinian mother and teacher Hanadi Al Halawani after raiding her home in the occupied Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrested the Palestinian young man Mohammed Shehadah after raiding his home in the occupied Jerusalem last night .


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ropey

Israeli researchers have developed bacteria fed only with carbon dioxide. The Weizmann Institute of Science  in central Israel reported.

_The military model 'test' removed ~30% of Hamas terrorists from Gaza in 1 hr._






New carbon dioxide eating bacteria could help fight global warming.

It sure helps the fight against terrorist air breathers. Keep it up pals. Keep listening to leftists like Coyote tell you that your fight is right.

And Pals? Your right of return is to return to Arabia.


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
Click to expand...


Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people.  But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.



We agree.

Also, people who were removed from that land in the process of invasion and colonization have a right to return.  Don't you agree?


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Originally posted by *rylah*
> It was their own choice to side with Britain, and aid them militarily,
> in yet another Arab attempt to fortify their colonial hold over the entire middle east.
> 
> They're like the kid with a full diaper
> walking around the room blaming everyone for the stink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> You know your opponents in a debate have a weak case in their hands when they don't even bother, don't even try and deny the land theft carried out by Ukrainians and Russians in Palestine.
> 
> They just try to convince you the europeans didn't steal "too much" land.
Click to expand...


Maybe because it's already ironic enough that people who call themselves  'INVADERS'
would complain about "land theft".

Or maybe because it's that the people who claim Ukrainians and Russians stole their land,
can't even pronounce it's name....

that suggested your were merely quoting that anecdote as a joke.


----------



## Ropey




----------



## rylah

José said:


> The lands of the Ottoman Empire belonged to other people well before the Ottomans got there​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Sure they did...
> 
> They belonged to the jewish ancestors of the arabized people of Palestine not to Poles and Belarussians whose ancestors happened to change religion.



If the land belonged to Arabized Jews of Palestine, then they certainly had all the authority to liberate their land with all those masses of Poles and Belorussians whom their ancestors circumcised.


----------



## José

The problem with your narrative is the historical fact that the native sephardic-mizrahi community and the small pre-zionist european diaspora regarded the zionist Poles and Belarussians as heretics and blasphemers who wanted to put man above God, as usurpers who wanted to play the role of The Anointed One.


----------



## rylah

José said:


> *Since "Palestine" never was a state*, how could land be stolen from something that never was? "Palestine" was what the ancient Romans called the ancient (ex-)kingdom of Israel after the Romans burnt down the Second Temple in Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​This is ironic because the fact that native americans had no concept of private property and land possession, let alone, the sophisticated western notions of country and nation-state, doesn't seem to have prevented this jewish-american leader holding an american flag from marching against racial segregation and in favor of compensation for the land theft and historic losses of the native inhabitants:



Why there be any contradiction?
Historic losses are compensated collectively rather than privately,
international law followed the same principle recognizing the right of the Jewish nation to re-constitute its sovereignty.in indigenous lands.

Would be nice to see an Arab march for compensation of historic loses to native Jews.


----------



## José

Try to follow the coversation at least:

Mindful said:

*Since "Palestine" never was a state*, how could land be stolen from something that never was?

I replied:

If palestinian arabs didn't lose 80% of their homeland in 1948 because the british military occupation never allowed them to set up an independent state, Indians lost even less with the colonization of the US because they not only never had a state, they didn't even have private property and private land.

Paraphrasing Mindful:

How could Indians have lost anything if they didn't even understand the western concept of private property?

Why did the entire american jewish community support the native american (and african american) struggle in the 60's if according to Mindful you can only lose your homeland if you already have a state?


----------



## José

Would be nice to see an Arab march for 
compensation of historic loses to native Jews.





​If native palestinian Jews knew, between 1880 - 1948, that what they regarded as the godless, blasphemous ideology of Zionism would make it impossible for them to live in Hebron without a small army protecting them 24\7, they would hate Herzl, Gurion and the satanic ideology they created and implemented even more than they already did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people.  But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.
Click to expand...

I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people.  But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.
Click to expand...



No.  They don't have the "right" to prevent the self-determination of another peoples.


----------



## rylah

José said:


> The problem with your narrative is the historical fact that the native sephardic-mizrahi community and the small pre-zionist european diaspora regarded the zionist Poles and Belarussians as heretics and blasphemers who wanted to put man above God, as usurpers who wanted to play the role of The Anointed One.



This would be a problem with my narrative, if it wasn't for their call for help due to persecution and Arab pogroms that initiated Jews worldwide to organize politically in response.

Neither the fact that they opposed their secularism say more than their active participation in spite of philosophical differences. Nor was the opposition as overwhelming across all sections of the society as You try to picture. In fact both the Mustareb who never left, and the Mizrahi who always stayed in the neighborhood with the Sephardic community all wholeheartedly supported the Zionist cause for liberation.

The opposition was among the Ashkenazim who themselves were  ordered by the sages of the previous generation to immigrate for the fulfillment of the commandments of the land. They too eventually participated all along in the political process and remain most steady political party in the Knesset.

Further clarifying that the basis of the Jewish society remains a cultural-family bond rather than narrow subscription to theology.


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Would be nice to see an Arab march for
> compensation of historic loses to native Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​If native palestinian Jews knew, between 1880 - 1948, that what they regarded as the godless, blasphemous ideology of Zionism would make it impossible for them to live in Hebron without a small army protecting them 24\7, they would hate Herzl, Gurion and the satanic ideology they created and implemented even more than they already did.



I bet that if they could see us today and compare it to their situation, especially seeing all the Jews finally reunite with the Patriarchs after centuries of Muslim ban, they would rejoice of the part given to them, in spite all the hardships.

After all their children fulfill their yearning of living  during the days their parents read about in the prophets.


----------



## José

Nor was the *opposition as overwhelming* across all sections of the society as *You try to picture*.




You say the Palestinian Jews' opposition to Zionism was not as overwhelming as I try to picture with arab Jews (who were the majority of the pre-zionist jewish population) "*wholeheartedly supporting the Zionist cause for liberation*".

An opposition that's not "as overwhelming" as someone says... is still an* ENORMOUS* opposition.

First you say the majority of palestinian Jews (arab Jews) did not oppose zionism and wholeheartedly supported it but soon after you concede the point that the overall jewish opposition to Zionism was enormous, huge just not as overwhelming as the poster José is trying to convince the Board it was.

Make up your mind, rylah...

You're contradicting yourself scandalously.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.
> 
> Also, people who were removed from that land in the process of invasion and colonization have a right to return.  Don't you agree?
Click to expand...

I agree with your premise but I do have other issues.

I don't see any evidence that the Zionists out of Europe have any ancestors from that territory.

Whenever anyone was removed from the territory it was by foreign powers, like the Romans, not the locals.

Why would anyone who "returns" have exclusive right over those who never left?


----------



## José

And just one more thing.... 

How on Earth can anyone support Zionism wholeheartedly if they  have "*philosophical differences with it*" which is rylah's "delicate" way of saying palestinian Jews considered Zionism a blasphemy against God?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are kids...all around the world.  They didn’t pick these conflicts.  She is so cute
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people.  But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.  They don't have the "right" to prevent the self-determination of another peoples.
Click to expand...

Self determination is for the people of the place not for the people from someplace else.

If you have something to the contrary, I would like to see it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Voice of Empowerment: Rep. Rashida Tlaib | MPAC Convention*


**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Electric Arabiya - Nathalie Handal*

**


----------



## rylah

José said:


> Nor was the *opposition as overwhelming* across all sections of the society as *You try to picture*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say the Palestinian Jews' opposition to Zionism was not as overwhelming as I try to picture with arab Jews (who were the majority of the pre-zionist jewish population) "*wholeheartedly supporting the Zionist cause for liberation*".
> 
> An opposition that's not "as overwhelming" as someone says... is still an* ENORMOUS* opposition.
> 
> First you say the majority of palestinian Jews (arab Jews) did not oppose zionism and wholeheartedly supported it but soon after you concede the point that the overall jewish opposition to Zionism was enormous, huge just not as overwhelming as the poster José is trying to convince the Board it was.
> 
> Make up your mind, rylah...
> 
> You're contradicting yourself scandalously.



I'm perfectly consistent,
that's why you need to reserve to a straw man fallacy based on cheap cut n' paste trickery out of context.

There was opposition among Jews who lived under Christian rule,
and overwhelming support among Jews who lived under Muslim rule, who are the majority in Israel.

Further revealing the logic failure  at the core of your argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We agree.
> 
> Also, people who were removed from that land in the process of invasion and colonization have a right to return.  Don't you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with your premise ...
Click to expand...


Wow.  Okay.  That's a start.  



> I don't see any evidence that the Zionists out of Europe have any ancestors from that territory.


Yes, but that is rather the same as you thinking the Mandate for Palestine is written in invisible ink.  

What kind of "evidence" would you look for?

Do you believe that the Jewish people were invaded and colonized?  Do you believe that at least some Jewish people were exiled?  Do you believe that NONE of them migrated to Europe?  Ever?  

What about the Sephardic and Mizrahi peoples which make up the large majority of Israeli population?  Do they have the right of return?  Why or why not?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Misrepresentation.  There is no evidence of of this.  Official records list 52 dead, from a battle between armed villagers and the Jewish forces.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misrepresentation.  There is no evidence of of this.  Official records list 52 dead, from a battle between armed villagers and the Jewish forces.
Click to expand...

What were Jewish forces doing in their village?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Misrepresentation.  There is no evidence of of this.  Official records list 52 dead, from a battle between armed villagers and the Jewish forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What were Jewish forces doing in their village?
Click to expand...


Protecting the road from Tel Aviv to Haifa, which was under constant attack from Arab forces and villagers.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat in Conversation with Katherine Franke and Diala Shamas*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noura Erakat in Conversation with Katherine Franke and Diala Shamas*
> 
> **



Wow! She literally trashed all your "legal" arguments.

I only watched Erekat and it was surprising how much she was revealing about the legal misconceptions at the basis of all Palestinian propaganda parroted here daily regarding international law.

Though I bet you'll come up next day repeating the same bs she just contradicted.

But it was a refreshingly honest one, even when she posed as opposing racism immediately reversing to the exactly that, saying "Zionists can never be home while Palestinians are always home" - just adding clarity to what really is that future Palestinian "dream" she's talking about.

It's just pity that at the end instead of revealing that it was her own family that sent her to the US, that was always at the t*op of Palestinian feudal power structure*, negotiating for the exact Oslo and other agreements she tries *to blame others*.


----------



## toastman

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Noura Erakat in Conversation with Katherine Franke and Diala Shamas*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! She literally trashed all your "legal" arguments.
> 
> I only watched Erekat and it was surprising how much she was revealing about the legal misconceptions at the basis of all Palestinian propaganda parroted here daily regarding international law.
> 
> Though I bet you'll come up next day repeating the same bs she just contradicted.
> 
> But it was a refreshingly honest one, even when she posed as opposing racism immediately reversing to the exactly that, saying "Zionists can never be home while Palestinians are always home" - just adding clarity to what really is that future Palestinian "dream" she's talking about.
> 
> It's just pity that at the end instead of revealing that it was her own family that sent her to the US, that was always at the t*op of Palestinian feudal power structure*, negotiating for the exact Oslo and other agreements she tries *to blame others*.
Click to expand...


Great post. Unfortunately, you won't get a response from Tinmore because his so called 'arguments' will be easily dismantles as usual. All he does is post pro Palestinian garbage.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **




Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination. 

If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful. 

The big question is why they DON’T.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
Click to expand...

The answer is simple: they don't like Jews.


----------



## Shusha

toomuchtime_ said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The answer is simple: they don't like Jews.
Click to expand...


Yep.

Impossible to come up with anything else.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
Click to expand...

Why do people keep bringing up Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The answer is simple: they don't like Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> Impossible to come up with anything else.
Click to expand...

Colonization might have something to do with it.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The answer is simple: they don't like Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> Impossible to come up with anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Colonization might have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't say that if you knew what the word colonization meant.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths clean up a Gaza City beach. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Toura village in the occupied West Bank district of Jenin.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian artist and calligrapher Hashem Kalloub, 59, at his workshop in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

South Hebron Hills tonight !!!
Settlers from the illegal outpost of khavat mao’n attacked and terrorized the people and the children from the village of Tuba with guns and dogs under the protection of the Israeli army


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian farmer picks radish crops in a Gaza field. Photo by Atia Darwish.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian youths clean up a Gaza City beach. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


So this is what they do in their spare time when they are not trying to murder Jews.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian youths clean up a Gaza City beach.


Great! But they should make some time to clean up their death cult culture.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Abby Martin: Gaza's fight for freedom needs global solidarity*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh. They aren’t “fighting for freedom”. They are using violence to temper tantrum that some other people’s ALSO has rights to self determination.
> 
> If they want freedom, self determination., sovereignty, they literally just have to stop being violent and make a peace treaty with Israel. You know and the. Actually be peaceful.
> 
> The big question is why they DON’T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do people keep bringing up Israel?
Click to expand...


Wait, what?!

You think we should stop bringing up Israel?

Well, I guess that's fair, since the only way the people of Gaza are going to have "freedom" is if someone frees them from Hamas and Islamic Jihad.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from occupied Palestine. Have a blessed Friday!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from occupied Palestine. Have a blessed Friday!


And if those kids are lucky, they will become famous and revered and get posters of themselves up all over town...when they blow themselves up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A confectioner prepares candy at his shop in the West Bank city of Nablus. Photo by Nedal Eshtayah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Today marks the anniversary of the death of the Palestinian cartoonist Naji Al-Ali who was assassinated in London in 1987. Al-Ali was noted for the political criticism of the Arab regimes and Israel in his works. Handala is his most famous character which has become an iconic symbol of Palestinian identity and defiance.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

Startling Street Posters of Suicide Bombers in Palestine - Feature Shoot


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Today marks the anniversary of the death of the Palestinian cartoonist Naji Al-Ali who was assassinated in London in 1987. Al-Ali was noted for the political criticism of the Arab regimes and Israel in his works. Handala is his most famous character which has become an iconic symbol of Palestinian identity and defiance.








Israel in 1977 after intense negotiation. The main features of the treaty were mutual recognition, cessation of the state of war that had existed since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, normalization of relations and the complete withdrawal by Israel of its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai Peninsula which Israel had captured during the Six-Day War in 1967. Egypt agreed to leave the area demilitarized. The agreement also provided for the free passage of Israeli ships through the Suez Canal, and recognition of the Strait of Tiran and the Gulf of Aqaba as international waterways.

The agreement notably made Egypt the first Arab state to officially recognize Israel.[1]




  This is why Sadat was murdered.  No comment?  Didn't think so  


*dit]*
Following the Camp David Accords, Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin shared the 1978 Nobel Peace Prize. However, the subsequent 1979 Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty was received with controversy among Arab nations, particularly the Palestinians. Egypt's membership in the Arab League was suspended (and not reinstated until 1989).[4] PLO Leader Yasser Arafat said "Let them sign what they like. False peace will not last."[5] In Egypt, various jihadist groups, such as Egyptian Islamic Jihad and al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya, used the Camp David Accords to rally support for their cause.[6] Previously sympathetic to Sadat's attempt to integrate them into Egyptian society,[7] Egypt's Islamists now felt betrayed, and publicly called for the overthrow of the Egyptian president and the replacement of the nation's system of government with a government based on Islamic theocracy.[7]


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




  The Borders of Israel is NOT to be recognized??   In your fury you seem incapable of understanding they are NOT just talking about " Right of Return"



     THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS !!!    






The United Nations General Assembly adopts resolution 194 (III), resolving that “refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date,​


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> The Borders of Israel is NOT to be recognized??


Funny, the suicide bombers sent by the evil death cult leaders seem to recognize it. They desperately try to get on one side of it, before blowing themselves up.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Seriously?

What do the you and the people of Gaza imagine you can accomplish with respect to the "Palestinian occupied lands of 1948, now called Israel"?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


Clear evidence that Palestinians should not be allowed to cross the street by themselves.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Farah Nabulsi’s short film, Nightmare of Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

One day the walls will fall, the checkpoints will disappear, and the sun will rise on a free Palestine.
(photo at Qalandiya checkpoint by Ahmad al-Bazz)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers search a Palestinian home in Azzun town in the West Bank district of Qalqilya at dawn today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths slide down a water canal used for irrigation in the West Bank city of Jericho. Photo by Shadi Hatem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Woodworker Hisham Kuhail arranges decorative objects at his Gaza City workshop. Photo by Mohammed Dahman.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Tear gas canisters used by Israeli soldiers against Palestinian demonstrators strung together for display outside the home of a Palestinian family in Nabi Saleh village near Ramallah. Photo by Issam Rimawi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian violinist performs at Gaza City's port. Photo by Ezz Zanoun.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Challenges Posed by the Vacuum in Palestinian Political Leadership*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

She talks about " equality and mutual respect"


P F Tinmore said:


>



  She talks about " equality and mutual respect"   This alone negates her claim

PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall

What she and others don’t talk about are the Pre 67 Borders where Jews were prohibited from visiting their Holy Sites

She also doesn’t address; “ From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” or “ No Israelis in Palestine “

For the above reasons alone “ Right of Return “ is DOA


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> She talks about " equality and mutual respect"
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She talks about " equality and mutual respect"   This alone negates her claim
> 
> PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall
> 
> What she and others don’t talk about are the Pre 67 Borders where Jews were prohibited from visiting their Holy Sites
> 
> She also doesn’t address; “ From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” or “ No Israelis in Palestine “
> 
> For the above reasons alone “ Right of Return “ is DOA
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> She talks about " equality and mutual respect"
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She talks about " equality and mutual respect"   This alone negates her claim
> 
> PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall
> 
> What she and others don’t talk about are the Pre 67 Borders where Jews were prohibited from visiting their Holy Sites
> 
> She also doesn’t address; “ From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” or “ No Israelis in Palestine “
> 
> For the above reasons alone “ Right of Return “ is DOA
Click to expand...


" Funny" is all you have to offer? Now, THAT is funny. You can't rebuke my post so you say nothing


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→   ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

Yes, and I cannot understand how they can put so much effort into complaining about something they cannot change.  This ranting and raving have, over time, achieved nothing.  In fact, one can argue that it has been detrimental to their cause.



​


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> What she and others don’t talk about are the Pre 67 Borders where Jews were prohibited from visiting their Holy Sites
> 
> She also doesn’t address; “ From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free”.


*(COMMENT)*

How do the Arab Palestinians think that the clock can be rolled back in time?

There is no Armistice with the Arab Palestinians and the Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949) was only "remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved."  That threshold was met:

◈  In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem with The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994).

◈  In the case of the Gaza Strip with The Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979).​
In the intervening quarter-century, the Arab Palestinians have made no effort to secure the peace.

Under what plan do the Arab Palestinians expect to achieve any of their demands.  It is one thing to demand something.  It is an entirely different matter to demonstrate how it is to be done.

I don't think that any significant number of Arab Palestinians _(given a choice) _would want to live in either a Fatah or HAMAS run government.

I'm not even sure how many of the original displaced Arab Palestinians are actually alive today, relative to the Right of Return; given the pre-June 1967 proposed demand by the PLO Negotiations Affairs Department.

And just how are the Arab Palestinians expect to reimburse the Israelis for a half-century of improvements should the Israelis even consider something on that order.

No, the Arab Palestinians know perfectly well that it is highly unlikely that they would gain any concessions given the danger they represent and their inability to make further improvements.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man at a pottery workshop in Gaza City. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian man at a pottery workshop in Gaza City. Photo by Mohammed Asad.



No content; Nothing new


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

World Photo Day: Palestinian photojournalists are increasingly becoming a target of Israeli killing machines, and there is one reason for that: Israel hates the truth.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>


Oh, what malarkey!  First of all, I believe her grandmother lives in Ramallah, which is under the PA jurisdiction.  Secondly, after receiving permission to visit her "sity" for perhaps the last time, her grandmother being 90 or something like that, why can't she just go ahead and see her?  Like an Israeli ambassador said, "I guess her hatred for Israel is stronger than her love for her granny!"


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian man at a pottery workshop in Gaza City. Photo by Mohammed Asad.


So the old man makes the pots and the boy fills them with explosives and nails.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, what malarkey!  First of all, I believe her grandmother lives in Ramallah, which is under the PA jurisdiction.  Secondly, after receiving permission to visit her "sity" for perhaps the last time, her grandmother being 90 or something like that, why can't she just go ahead and see her?  Like an Israeli ambassador said, "I guess her hatred for Israel is stronger than her love for her granny!"
Click to expand...


Well, like President Trump said, the real winner in that whole diplomatic fiasco was her "sity", who gets to avoid seeing her.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*American's Biggest Misconceptions About Israel/Palestine Conflict w/Rania Khalek*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad

My grandma ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Wajib, a film by Annemarie Jacir. Clip - Nazareth is boring*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dar Yusuf Nasri Jacir for Art and Research – Emily Jacir*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **



She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem 
 But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”


He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .


Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*"I Heart Hamas: And Other Things I'm Afraid to Tell You." Interview With Jennifer Jajeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

19-year-old Babel Qudeih practices her hobby of repairing smartphones at her home in Khan Younis City, the southern Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"Trump-Netanyahu's war on Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar is a war against freedom of speech, a war against everyone who dares to criticize Israel's apartheid."
Carlos Latuff


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Resisting the Corporate University: Academic Freedom, Islamophobia and Palestine*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
Click to expand...


Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
 From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
Click to expand...


The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.

In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
Click to expand...


Deflection. STILL haven’t explained why under “ International Law” Jewish places of Worship and Holy Sites got destroyed and why this was allowed without the “ INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY “ objecting, 
  You refuse to explain why Jews should accept the same if E. Jerusalem came under PLO control ( Which it won’t)


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
Click to expand...


Now try that again telling the truth.

What makes one knowingly spread blood-libels and disinformation
for 9 years on a daily basis, about a place you've never seen on another continent...?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now try that again telling the truth.
> 
> What makes one knowingly spread blood-libels and disinformation
> for 9 years on a daily basis, about a place you've never seen on another continent...?
Click to expand...

What's not true?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*NYC protest marks anniv. of Gaza's 'March of Return'\*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
Click to expand...

All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed.  None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed.  None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
Click to expand...

You are a hoot!


----------



## P F Tinmore

"End Occupation" written by Palestinian protesters on the riot shield of an Israeli soldier.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian vendor sells pickles at a Gaza City market. Photo by Ashraf Amra


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

AThe Israeli government has closed Temple Mount—a holy site for both Jews and Muslims—after a right-wing Jewish activist was seriously hurt in a shooting. The victim, Rabbi Yehuda Glick, has been fighting to give Jews greater access to the site.bbas: Closing Jerusalem Holy Site an Act of War | The Takeaway | WNYC Studios

  All the Palestinians know is killing and violence.  That is an Act of War


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights & Obligations*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian vendor sells bread in a street market in the West Bank city of Nablus. Photo by Nedal Eshtayah.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Child Jailed Under Illegal Israeli Occupation-Ahed Tamimi*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
Click to expand...


Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






  I agree!!!  Let's call it ANTI SEMITISM


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christian leaders urge Congress to curb Israeli torture of children


----------



## P F Tinmore

Samar al-Bea revived her father’s beehives after Israel killed him and destroyed the farm.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Christmas tree in Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Christmas tree in Gaza.






Hanukkah Festival in the Old City


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



Wow the mansions!!
Don't you think they can perfectly match
Ilhan Omar's next Socialist campaign?

Away with the bourgeois capitalist pigs!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Are these Arab police officers,
removing a rotten potato bag or something?

I thought you said there were no dress codes like in Saudi Arabia...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What's the problem, lots of space and no shortage of carpets.
I hear they're really into partitions there, could easily spare a village or two
for their co-religionistas to enjoy banging their heads together on that floor.

It's like them peacocks  were meant for each other.


Let's build a Pal'istan in  Pakistan ...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Christmas tree in Gaza.



*Now that there are practically no Christians left, *
*Gaza lights a Christimas tree*

The Arab world likes to celebrate Judaism and Christianity - when there are few to no Jews and Christians left.

During Chanukah, Egypt held a very public Chanukah celebration even as the Jewish community has dwindled to less than 10.

Christians have been fleeing the PA since Oslo, but the PA puts on a big show of lighting the Christmas tree in Bethlehem every year, accompanied by speeches about how evil Israel is.

And now, for the first time in more than ten years, Gaza held a Christmas-tree lighting ceremony on Saturday, where lots of officials waxed poetic on how important Christians are to the Palestinian people.

The number of Christians in Gaza has plummeted from about 3000 ten years ago to less than 750 today.






Since there are no Jews left in Gaza to massacre 
how many Christians do you think they'll spare for the PR?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,

Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.



Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:



			
				S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
			
		

> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​


​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.

This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”

*(OTHER CONCERNS)*

This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.

And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
*
This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
Click to expand...


That's just a silly sound byte.

When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
Click to expand...

So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I don't think that is the same...I was referring to the demolition of family homes of convicted (palestinian) terrorists...?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
Click to expand...


Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child” The Claim was made that Israel “ seized “ the W. Bank and E. Jerusalem
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> She slapped a Israeli Soldier; hardly a “ Innocent Child”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what the host “ forgot” to mention is that those areas were part of Jordan; a Country that initiated the 67 War .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
Click to expand...

My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
Click to expand...

Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
Click to expand...

A silly statement, quite in character for you, land ownership is defined by law and so under Oslo, Palestinians are free to build all they want in ares A and B, but area C is under Israeli civil control and Palestinians can only build in C if Israel approves.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
Click to expand...

More racist nonsense from you.  First, under Israeli law, no Arab Israeli can be excluded from any housing in Israel or area C because of being an Arab, so the settlements you refer to as Jewish are open to Arab Israelis as well.  

The same rules concerning building apply to all Israelis.  No building is allowed unless it fits into an approved master plan for the area either in Israeli or C.  It takes at least two years from the time an application is submitted before construction can begin.  There are only a few cases in which Palestinians have followed all the rules and in  those cases building permits have been issued.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More racist nonsense from you.  First, under Israeli law, no Arab Israeli can be excluded from any housing in Israel or area C because of being an Arab, so the settlements you refer to as Jewish are open to Arab Israelis as well.
> 
> The same rules concerning building apply to all Israelis.  No building is allowed unless it fits into an approved master plan for the area either in Israeli or C.  It takes at least two years from the time an application is submitted before construction can begin.  There are only a few cases in which Palestinians have followed all the rules and in  those cases building permits have been issued.
Click to expand...


What is racist about it simple facts?

Here is a simple question: how many new legal Arab Israeli settlements have been started in Area C?

How many illegal Jewish settlements get government supported infrastructure? Even when illegally built on Palestinian owned lan (per the Israeli courts).
Israeli government-funded council spent millions on illegal settlements


How about Arab settlements?


Now tell me how what I said is racist.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

There have been more than a few, when you you look at property confiscated through absentee land owner laws and “good faith” laws that rule in favor of Israel, not the land owner.
Israel says will legalize West Bank homes built on private Palestinian land

but I agree, the bull dozing of homes is in retaliatian to terrorism.  But only Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> He shoots Palestinians and gets slapped in the face! Wow, just WOW!
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The West Bank was never part of Jordan. It was not Jordan's territory to lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
Click to expand...


That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.

How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.

Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
Click to expand...


Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?


----------



## toastman

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
Click to expand...


The better question is: How many Israelis celebrate and hand out candy when a Palestinian is killed by an Israeli?


----------



## Coyote

toastman said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The better question is: How many Israelis celebrate and hand out candy when a Palestinian is killed by an Israeli?
Click to expand...

They aren’t big on candy but some eat popcorn and cheer


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
Click to expand...


If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.

Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights to Resources*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
Click to expand...


Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
Click to expand...


Those are all terrible incidents.  Still, it's 3 incidents compared to the hundreds of terrorist attacks of Arabs against Jews.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are all terrible incidents.  Still, it's 3 incidents compared to the hundreds of terrorist attacks of Arabs against Jews.
Click to expand...


Btw, I didn't make this comparison of numbers only in order to portray the Arabs as animals.  I'm only answering your question.  Hundreds of incidents as opposed to 3, shows why demolition of homes is a regular practice concerning Arab terrorists.  3 or 4 oddball Israeli incidents in over 70 years don't need this kind of deterring practice.  And the killers of that Arab boy (who died as a result of a national tragedy) are serving life sentences.  (The boy's father refused to let his son's name go into a memorial for Israel's terror victims.)


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

BLUF:  You cannot look at stone-throwing by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as anything less than the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Let's see if we can clarify something here.   A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.  That is principally because the threshold that you, me, and P F Tinmore _(ad infinitum)_ have in which we become scared _(or terrorized)_ or come to fear great sorrow, is different.  Those of us that are married have come to know this in our families and extended families have come to know this.  And over time, this threshold changes.  When I was young, I did all kinds of crazy things that were enormously dangerous that, today, I simply cannot do anymore for some fear of one thing or another.  And it is in this definition that both people and nations (more so) find it difficult to express in any kind of definition _(black, gray and white)_.



Coyote said:


> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?


*(COMMENT)*

Today, the closest thing that a definition has come to being defined extends from Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), which was delayed being formally accepted in 1938 by WWII.





​You will notice that even then, the dozen or so nations from all over the world (including Egypt) implanted the idea that incorporated the notion of "a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general population" as a domain of applicability.  Even today, the ideas behind that of terrorism have changed in its magnitude:


			
				A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
			
		

> Renewing its unwavering commitment to strengthening international cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, and reaffirming that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed
> 
> Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments, and that the international community should take the steps necessary to enhance cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in a decisive, unified, coordinated, inclusive and transparent manner,
> 
> Expressing concern that terrorists may benefit from transnational organized crime in some regions, including from the trafficking of arms, persons, drugs and cultural property and from the illicit trade in natural resources, including oil, and in oil products, modular refineries and related material, gold and other precious metals and stones, minerals, charcoal and wildlife, as well as from kidnapping for ransom and other crimes, including extortion, money-laundering and bank robbery, and condemning the destruction of cultural heritage perpetrated by terrorist groups in some countries,


Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.



			
				A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
			
		

> o deny terrorist groups safe haven, freedom of operations, movement and recruitment and financial, material or political support, which endanger national, regional and international peace and security, and to bring to justice or, where appropriate, extradite, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, the perpetrators of terrorist acts or any person who The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy ReviewA/RES/72/2849/1718-10508supports, facilitates or participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning or preparation of terrorist acts


The mere act of "stone-throwing" is NOT an act of terrorism, in and by itself.  It is the reason and intent behind it.  It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority of the Israeli Government in the West Bank, is directly punishable under Article 68, of The Fourth Geneva Convention.

WHEN these simple acts are committed → solely with the intent to harm the Occupying Power, members of the occupying forces or administration, or the installations used by them, in the furtherance of destabilizing the Government of Israel _(in the specific context)_, it becomes a form of direct support to terrorism that encourages even further acts of violence. 

Interpreting and implementing those international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”).




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You cannot look at stone-throwing by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as anything less than the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Let's see if we can clarify something here.   A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.  That is principally because the threshold that you, me, and P F Tinmore _(ad infinitum)_ have in which we become scared _(or terrorized)_ or come to fear great sorrow, is different.  Those of us that are married have come to know this in our families and extended families have come to know this.  And over time, this threshold changes.  When I was young, I did all kinds of crazy things that were enormously dangerous that, today, I simply cannot do anymore for some fear of one thing or another.  And it is in this definition that both people and nations (more so) find it difficult to express in any kind of definition _(black, gray and white)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the closest thing that a definition has come to being defined extends from Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), which was delayed being formally accepted in 1938 by WWII.
> 
> 
> View attachment 293467​You will notice that even then, the dozen or so nations from all over the world (including Egypt) implanted the idea that incorporated the notion of "a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general population" as a domain of applicability.  Even today, the ideas behind that of terrorism have changed in its magnitude:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renewing its unwavering commitment to strengthening international cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, and reaffirming that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed
> 
> Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments, and that the international community should take the steps necessary to enhance cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in a decisive, unified, coordinated, inclusive and transparent manner,
> 
> Expressing concern that terrorists may benefit from transnational organized crime in some regions, including from the trafficking of arms, persons, drugs and cultural property and from the illicit trade in natural resources, including oil, and in oil products, modular refineries and related material, gold and other precious metals and stones, minerals, charcoal and wildlife, as well as from kidnapping for ransom and other crimes, including extortion, money-laundering and bank robbery, and condemning the destruction of cultural heritage perpetrated by terrorist groups in some countries,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o deny terrorist groups safe haven, freedom of operations, movement and recruitment and financial, material or political support, which endanger national, regional and international peace and security, and to bring to justice or, where appropriate, extradite, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, the perpetrators of terrorist acts or any person who The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy ReviewA/RES/72/2849/1718-10508supports, facilitates or participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning or preparation of terrorist acts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The mere act of "stone-throwing" is NOT an act of terrorism, in and by itself.  It is the reason and intent behind it.  It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority of the Israeli Government in the West Bank, is directly punishable under Article 68, of The Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> WHEN these simple acts are committed → solely with the intent to harm the Occupying Power, members of the occupying forces or administration, or the installations used by them, in the furtherance of destabilizing the Government of Israel _(in the specific context)_, it becomes a form of direct support to terrorism that encourages even further acts of violence.
> 
> Interpreting and implementing those international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority


It is always open season on invading military troops.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.


Terrorism is a bulldozer at my front door. ~ Palestinian poet


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is a bulldozer at my front door. ~ Palestinian poet
Click to expand...


Not if you just killed a mother of 4.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is a bulldozer at my front door. ~ Palestinian poet
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not if you just killed a mother of 4.
Click to expand...

Only a minute number of homes bulldozed is for so called terrorism. Mostly it is for Israel to steal the land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You cannot look at stone-throwing by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as anything less than the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Let's see if we can clarify something here.   A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.  That is principally because the threshold that you, me, and P F Tinmore _(ad infinitum)_ have in which we become scared _(or terrorized)_ or come to fear great sorrow, is different.  Those of us that are married have come to know this in our families and extended families have come to know this.  And over time, this threshold changes.  When I was young, I did all kinds of crazy things that were enormously dangerous that, today, I simply cannot do anymore for some fear of one thing or another.  And it is in this definition that both people and nations (more so) find it difficult to express in any kind of definition _(black, gray and white)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the closest thing that a definition has come to being defined extends from Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), which was delayed being formally accepted in 1938 by WWII.
> 
> 
> View attachment 293467​You will notice that even then, the dozen or so nations from all over the world (including Egypt) implanted the idea that incorporated the notion of "a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general population" as a domain of applicability.  Even today, the ideas behind that of terrorism have changed in its magnitude:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renewing its unwavering commitment to strengthening international cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, and reaffirming that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed
> 
> Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments, and that the international community should take the steps necessary to enhance cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in a decisive, unified, coordinated, inclusive and transparent manner,
> 
> Expressing concern that terrorists may benefit from transnational organized crime in some regions, including from the trafficking of arms, persons, drugs and cultural property and from the illicit trade in natural resources, including oil, and in oil products, modular refineries and related material, gold and other precious metals and stones, minerals, charcoal and wildlife, as well as from kidnapping for ransom and other crimes, including extortion, money-laundering and bank robbery, and condemning the destruction of cultural heritage perpetrated by terrorist groups in some countries,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o deny terrorist groups safe haven, freedom of operations, movement and recruitment and financial, material or political support, which endanger national, regional and international peace and security, and to bring to justice or, where appropriate, extradite, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, the perpetrators of terrorist acts or any person who The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy ReviewA/RES/72/2849/1718-10508supports, facilitates or participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning or preparation of terrorist acts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The mere act of "stone-throwing" is NOT an act of terrorism, in and by itself.  It is the reason and intent behind it.  It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority of the Israeli Government in the West Bank, is directly punishable under Article 68, of The Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> WHEN these simple acts are committed → solely with the intent to harm the Occupying Power, members of the occupying forces or administration, or the installations used by them, in the furtherance of destabilizing the Government of Israel _(in the specific context)_, it becomes a form of direct support to terrorism that encourages even further acts of violence.
> 
> Interpreting and implementing those international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

"Terrorism" is an Israeli propaganda campaign.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More racist nonsense from you.  First, under Israeli law, no Arab Israeli can be excluded from any housing in Israel or area C because of being an Arab, so the settlements you refer to as Jewish are open to Arab Israelis as well.
> 
> The same rules concerning building apply to all Israelis.  No building is allowed unless it fits into an approved master plan for the area either in Israeli or C.  It takes at least two years from the time an application is submitted before construction can begin.  There are only a few cases in which Palestinians have followed all the rules and in  those cases building permits have been issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is racist about it simple facts?
> 
> Here is a simple question: how many new legal Arab Israeli settlements have been started in Area C?
> 
> How many illegal Jewish settlements get government supported infrastructure? Even when illegally built on Palestinian owned lan (per the Israeli courts).
> Israeli government-funded council spent millions on illegal settlements
> 
> 
> How about Arab settlements?
> 
> 
> Now tell me how what I said is racist.
Click to expand...

Again, you are clearly only capable of seeing things through racist eyes.  First, there is no such thing as a Jewish or Arab settlement under Israeli law since these communities must be open to all Israelis regardless of race or ethnicity.  

Second, how stupid or biased do you have to be to talk about how many settlements proposed by Arabs have been approved without first talking about how settlements have been proposed by Arab Israelis?  Clearly, you are incapable of thinking about anything but race.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There have been more than a few, when you you look at property confiscated through absentee land owner laws and “good faith” laws that rule in favor of Israel, not the land owner.
> Israel says will legalize West Bank homes built on private Palestinian land
> 
> but I agree, the bull dozing of homes is in retaliatian to terrorism.  But only Palestinian terrorists.
Click to expand...

Seventy years ago after the Arabs tried to overthrow the new Israeli government and then fled to neighboring states there was a redistribution of their property, and there was no rational alternative for the new state of Israel.  Since then, Arab and Jewish Israelis have been treated equally under the law.

Under Israeli law, Israeli courts have found that no settlements can be built or sustained on land owned by Palestinians, and there have been several cases in which the courts have ordered the government to demolish settlements the court has found to be on Palestinian land.  If the Palestinians had brought their claims to Israeli courts, and the court found they owned it, the government would not be able to legalize the settlements unless it could prove it was necessary for security purposes.  Clearly, the Palestinians who claim the land belongs to them have chosen not to pursue their claims through legal processes.  

To date, Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria take up only about 1% of the land, and the total amount of land that has been approved for development is only 8%, so why all this hysteria about Israeli settlements?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Bullshit of course. Jordan DID annex that territory.
> From what I have read, why didn’t the “ International Community “ yell about “ occupation “ and IF they didn’t control the territory how did they have the power to forbid Jews to visit their Holy Sites?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
Click to expand...

You post this because you are unable to see things except through racist eyes.  Only terrorists have been de;oberately shot and only when they could not be subdued in other ways without endangering more people.  I am unaware of any cases in which Jewish terrorists could not be subdued without lethal force.  Clearly, it would never occur to you to ask about the circumstances under which terrorists have been shot.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You cannot look at stone-throwing by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as anything less than the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Let's see if we can clarify something here.   A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.  That is principally because the threshold that you, me, and P F Tinmore _(ad infinitum)_ have in which we become scared _(or terrorized)_ or come to fear great sorrow, is different.  Those of us that are married have come to know this in our families and extended families have come to know this.  And over time, this threshold changes.  When I was young, I did all kinds of crazy things that were enormously dangerous that, today, I simply cannot do anymore for some fear of one thing or another.  And it is in this definition that both people and nations (more so) find it difficult to express in any kind of definition _(black, gray and white)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the closest thing that a definition has come to being defined extends from Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), which was delayed being formally accepted in 1938 by WWII.
> 
> 
> View attachment 293467​You will notice that even then, the dozen or so nations from all over the world (including Egypt) implanted the idea that incorporated the notion of "a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general population" as a domain of applicability.  Even today, the ideas behind that of terrorism have changed in its magnitude:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renewing its unwavering commitment to strengthening international cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, and reaffirming that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed
> 
> Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments, and that the international community should take the steps necessary to enhance cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in a decisive, unified, coordinated, inclusive and transparent manner,
> 
> Expressing concern that terrorists may benefit from transnational organized crime in some regions, including from the trafficking of arms, persons, drugs and cultural property and from the illicit trade in natural resources, including oil, and in oil products, modular refineries and related material, gold and other precious metals and stones, minerals, charcoal and wildlife, as well as from kidnapping for ransom and other crimes, including extortion, money-laundering and bank robbery, and condemning the destruction of cultural heritage perpetrated by terrorist groups in some countries,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o deny terrorist groups safe haven, freedom of operations, movement and recruitment and financial, material or political support, which endanger national, regional and international peace and security, and to bring to justice or, where appropriate, extradite, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, the perpetrators of terrorist acts or any person who The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy ReviewA/RES/72/2849/1718-10508supports, facilitates or participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning or preparation of terrorist acts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The mere act of "stone-throwing" is NOT an act of terrorism, in and by itself.  It is the reason and intent behind it.  It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority of the Israeli Government in the West Bank, is directly punishable under Article 68, of The Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> WHEN these simple acts are committed → solely with the intent to harm the Occupying Power, members of the occupying forces or administration, or the installations used by them, in the furtherance of destabilizing the Government of Israel _(in the specific context)_, it becomes a form of direct support to terrorism that encourages even further acts of violence.
> 
> Interpreting and implementing those international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is always open season on invading military troops.
Click to expand...


Good ! It’s always been an open season on those who attack “ invading military ttroops


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces on Friday shot Palestinian photographer Muath Amarneh in his left eye. Muath has lost his eye as a result.

Palestinians are showing solidarity with him by sharing photos of themselves with one closed eye.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Israel will never be drstroyed.  If the Arabs agree to share the land, they might get a "New Palestine" on the West Bank.  If they post memes like the one above and refuse to accept Israel in any form, they will only end up losing ALL of the land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Congratulations to a real hero, Kumi Naidoo on this award Kumi is the Secretary General of the human Rights organisation Amnesty International. I met with him in South Africa and he invited me to his home for lunch ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ 
https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/education/2120002/uj-to-confer-honorary-doctorate-on-social-justice-activist-kumi-naidoo/


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


Uh oh, the kid will probably be called a collaborator and killed by his own family.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces re-detained Palestinian lawmaker Khalida Jarrar, an official of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, after raiding her home in Ramallah, last night.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The occupations are very different. Under Jordanian rule the Palestinians had passports, they could vote, farm, build.
> 
> In Israel their homes and farms get bulldozed. They get shot. They cannot travel. They cannot build. Their land gets pulled from under their feet.
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post this because you are unable to see things except through racist eyes.  Only terrorists have been de;oberately shot and only when they could not be subdued in other ways without endangering more people.  I am unaware of any cases in which Jewish terrorists could not be subdued without lethal force.  Clearly, it would never occur to you to ask about the circumstances under which terrorists have been shot.
Click to expand...

What is racist about what what I said?  Your fall back seems to be to scream racist.

What have I said that is racist?

You did not answer my question.  Why is it Jewish terrorists do not get their family homes bulldozed?


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There have been more than a few, when you you look at property confiscated through absentee land owner laws and “good faith” laws that rule in favor of Israel, not the land owner.
> Israel says will legalize West Bank homes built on private Palestinian land
> 
> but I agree, the bull dozing of homes is in retaliatian to terrorism.  But only Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seventy years ago after the Arabs tried to overthrow the new Israeli government and then fled to neighboring states there was a redistribution of their property, and there was no rational alternative for the new state of Israel.  Since then, Arab and Jewish Israelis have been treated equally under the law.
> 
> Under Israeli law, Israeli courts have found that no settlements can be built or sustained on land owned by Palestinians, and there have been several cases in which the courts have ordered the government to demolish settlements the court has found to be on Palestinian land.  If the Palestinians had brought their claims to Israeli courts, and the court found they owned it, the government would not be able to legalize the settlements unless it could prove it was necessary for security purposes.  Clearly, the Palestinians who claim the land belongs to them have chosen not to pursue their claims through legal processes.
> 
> To date, Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria take up only about 1% of the land, and the total amount of land that has been approved for development is only 8%, so why all this hysteria about Israeli settlements?
Click to expand...


Not entirely true.  There was a war.  Palestinians fled either out of conflict or were driven out by Jewish militias.  After that, most were not permitted back and absentee landowner laws were instituted to make it easier to confiscate their land.  In comparison, the laws made it quite easy for Jews to reclaim their land, but much more difficult for Palestinians to.  As a result, Israel was able to take a great deal of land.  These laws are still in effect.

Today, if settlements are built on privately owned land, one of several things can happen.  The courts can order it be returned to the rightful owners or they can “compensate” the rightful owner (which is meaningless if it is your property being wrongfully taken).  “National security” is a term used to cover a multitude of landgrab sins that don’t necessarily have anything to do with security (not unique to Israel) that simply transfers land to settlements.

Palestinian land seized by Israeli army, given to settlers:NGO


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More racist nonsense from you.  First, under Israeli law, no Arab Israeli can be excluded from any housing in Israel or area C because of being an Arab, so the settlements you refer to as Jewish are open to Arab Israelis as well.
> 
> The same rules concerning building apply to all Israelis.  No building is allowed unless it fits into an approved master plan for the area either in Israeli or C.  It takes at least two years from the time an application is submitted before construction can begin.  There are only a few cases in which Palestinians have followed all the rules and in  those cases building permits have been issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is racist about it simple facts?
> 
> Here is a simple question: how many new legal Arab Israeli settlements have been started in Area C?
> 
> How many illegal Jewish settlements get government supported infrastructure? Even when illegally built on Palestinian owned lan (per the Israeli courts).
> Israeli government-funded council spent millions on illegal settlements
> 
> 
> How about Arab settlements?
> 
> 
> Now tell me how what I said is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you are clearly only capable of seeing things through racist eyes.  First, there is no such thing as a Jewish or Arab settlement under Israeli law since these communities must be open to all Israelis regardless of race or ethnicity.
> 
> Second, how stupid or biased do you have to be to talk about how many settlements proposed by Arabs have been approved without first talking about how settlements have been proposed by Arab Israelis?  Clearly, you are incapable of thinking about anything but race.
Click to expand...


How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?

How many settlements are Jewish only?

How many are Arab only?


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You cannot look at stone-throwing by Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) as anything less than the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​Let's see if we can clarify something here.   A formal definition of terrorism has never really been established in contemporary times.  That is principally because the threshold that you, me, and P F Tinmore _(ad infinitum)_ have in which we become scared _(or terrorized)_ or come to fear great sorrow, is different.  Those of us that are married have come to know this in our families and extended families have come to know this.  And over time, this threshold changes.  When I was young, I did all kinds of crazy things that were enormously dangerous that, today, I simply cannot do anymore for some fear of one thing or another.  And it is in this definition that both people and nations (more so) find it difficult to express in any kind of definition _(black, gray and white)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Today, the closest thing that a definition has come to being defined extends from Article 1, Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), which was delayed being formally accepted in 1938 by WWII.
> 
> 
> View attachment 293467​You will notice that even then, the dozen or so nations from all over the world (including Egypt) implanted the idea that incorporated the notion of "a state of terror in the minds of particular persons, or a group of persons or the general population" as a domain of applicability.  Even today, the ideas behind that of terrorism have changed in its magnitude:
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Renewing its unwavering commitment to strengthening international cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, and reaffirming that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed
> 
> Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments, and that the international community should take the steps necessary to enhance cooperation to prevent and combat terrorism in a decisive, unified, coordinated, inclusive and transparent manner,
> 
> Expressing concern that terrorists may benefit from transnational organized crime in some regions, including from the trafficking of arms, persons, drugs and cultural property and from the illicit trade in natural resources, including oil, and in oil products, modular refineries and related material, gold and other precious metals and stones, minerals, charcoal and wildlife, as well as from kidnapping for ransom and other crimes, including extortion, money-laundering and bank robbery, and condemning the destruction of cultural heritage perpetrated by terrorist groups in some countries,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Criminal Acts directed against a State with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the civilian population, or to any other person not taking an active part in the hostilities, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population and to compel a government or an international organization to do _(or to abstain from doing)_ some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A/RES/72/284 • The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy Review said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> o deny terrorist groups safe haven, freedom of operations, movement and recruitment and financial, material or political support, which endanger national, regional and international peace and security, and to bring to justice or, where appropriate, extradite, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, the perpetrators of terrorist acts or any person who The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy ReviewA/RES/72/2849/1718-10508supports, facilitates or participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning or preparation of terrorist acts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The mere act of "stone-throwing" is NOT an act of terrorism, in and by itself.  It is the reason and intent behind it.  It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority of the Israeli Government in the West Bank, is directly punishable under Article 68, of The Fourth Geneva Convention.
> 
> WHEN these simple acts are committed → solely with the intent to harm the Occupying Power, members of the occupying forces or administration, or the installations used by them, in the furtherance of destabilizing the Government of Israel _(in the specific context)_, it becomes a form of direct support to terrorism that encourages even further acts of violence.
> 
> Interpreting and implementing those international obligations which prohibit all advocacy that constitutes the incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence _(“incitement” or “incitement to hatred”)_, as mandated by Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (“ICCPR”). The recommendations also apply to some of the provisions contained in Article 4 of the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (“ICERD”).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?

But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are all terrible incidents.  Still, it's 3 incidents compared to the hundreds of terrorist attacks of Arabs against Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Btw, I didn't make this comparison of numbers only in order to portray the Arabs as animals.  I'm only answering your question.  Hundreds of incidents as opposed to 3, shows why demolition of homes is a regular practice concerning Arab terrorists.  3 or 4 oddball Israeli incidents in over 70 years don't need this kind of deterring practice.  And the killers of that Arab boy (who died as a result of a national tragedy) are serving life sentences.  (The boy's father refused to let his son's name go into a memorial for Israel's terror victims.)
Click to expand...

Something to consider.  Bulldozing homes is a form of collective punishment.  It also is not a deterrent.  Why do it?


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
Click to expand...

When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.

It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post this because you are unable to see things except through racist eyes.  Only terrorists have been de;oberately shot and only when they could not be subdued in other ways without endangering more people.  I am unaware of any cases in which Jewish terrorists could not be subdued without lethal force.  Clearly, it would never occur to you to ask about the circumstances under which terrorists have been shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is racist about what what I said?  Your fall back seems to be to scream racist.
> 
> What have I said that is racist?
> 
> You did not answer my question.  Why is it Jewish terrorists do not get their family homes bulldozed?
Click to expand...

You are a racist because you only notice if a person is Jewish or Palestinian without considering the circumstances in which actions take place.  With regard to home demolitions, they are not a  punishment but a deterrent to future acts of terrorism, and no deterrent is necessary to discourage Jewish terrorists but acts of terrorism against Jews is a core value of Palestinian culture and society, so important to them that they would rather go broke that stop payments to incite more terrorism against Jews.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There have been more than a few, when you you look at property confiscated through absentee land owner laws and “good faith” laws that rule in favor of Israel, not the land owner.
> Israel says will legalize West Bank homes built on private Palestinian land
> 
> but I agree, the bull dozing of homes is in retaliatian to terrorism.  But only Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seventy years ago after the Arabs tried to overthrow the new Israeli government and then fled to neighboring states there was a redistribution of their property, and there was no rational alternative for the new state of Israel.  Since then, Arab and Jewish Israelis have been treated equally under the law.
> 
> Under Israeli law, Israeli courts have found that no settlements can be built or sustained on land owned by Palestinians, and there have been several cases in which the courts have ordered the government to demolish settlements the court has found to be on Palestinian land.  If the Palestinians had brought their claims to Israeli courts, and the court found they owned it, the government would not be able to legalize the settlements unless it could prove it was necessary for security purposes.  Clearly, the Palestinians who claim the land belongs to them have chosen not to pursue their claims through legal processes.
> 
> To date, Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria take up only about 1% of the land, and the total amount of land that has been approved for development is only 8%, so why all this hysteria about Israeli settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not entirely true.  There was a war.  Palestinians fled either out of conflict or were driven out by Jewish militias.  After that, most were not permitted back and absentee landowner laws were instituted to make it easier to confiscate their land.  In comparison, the laws made it quite easy for Jews to reclaim their land, but much more difficult for Palestinians to.  As a result, Israel was able to take a great deal of land.  These laws are still in effect.
> 
> Today, if settlements are built on privately owned land, one of several things can happen.  The courts can order it be returned to the rightful owners or they can “compensate” the rightful owner (which is meaningless if it is your property being wrongfully taken).  “National security” is a term used to cover a multitude of landgrab sins that don’t necessarily have anything to do with security (not unique to Israel) that simply transfers land to settlements.
> 
> Palestinian land seized by Israeli army, given to settlers:NGO
Click to expand...

lol  To your racist eyes, all Jews are thieves and liars and all Palestinians are innocent victims.  The Arabs who left Israel during the War of Independence had to be considered a hostile population, nonetheless, in response to UN resolution 194, which specified that only those refugees who were prepared to live in peace with other Israelis had a right to return, Israel offered to vet claims from Arabs who would recognize the state of Israel and live in peace in it, but no applications were received, obviously because any Arab who did would be called a collaborator and probably executed.  The Arab land wasn't stolen, the Arabs lost the right to the land when they went to war against the Israeli government and against the Jews.  

Your ignorance and bigotry are always impressive.  Under Oslo, Israel is the civil authority in area C just as the PA is the civil authority in areas A and B.  Just as the PA can define property rights in areas A and B so Israel can define property rights in area C.  Under the PA rules, Jews cant own property in areas A or B, but under Israeli law, all property rights that can be substantiated are respected.  All governments seize private for public use when they think it is necessary, it's called eminent domain, but when Israel exercises the same right all governments use, you call the Jews liars and thieves and despite the fact Israel is surrounded by hostile populations you dismiss any Israel's need for security as just more lies.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More racist nonsense from you.  First, under Israeli law, no Arab Israeli can be excluded from any housing in Israel or area C because of being an Arab, so the settlements you refer to as Jewish are open to Arab Israelis as well.
> 
> The same rules concerning building apply to all Israelis.  No building is allowed unless it fits into an approved master plan for the area either in Israeli or C.  It takes at least two years from the time an application is submitted before construction can begin.  There are only a few cases in which Palestinians have followed all the rules and in  those cases building permits have been issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is racist about it simple facts?
> 
> Here is a simple question: how many new legal Arab Israeli settlements have been started in Area C?
> 
> How many illegal Jewish settlements get government supported infrastructure? Even when illegally built on Palestinian owned lan (per the Israeli courts).
> Israeli government-funded council spent millions on illegal settlements
> 
> 
> How about Arab settlements?
> 
> 
> Now tell me how what I said is racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you are clearly only capable of seeing things through racist eyes.  First, there is no such thing as a Jewish or Arab settlement under Israeli law since these communities must be open to all Israelis regardless of race or ethnicity.
> 
> Second, how stupid or biased do you have to be to talk about how many settlements proposed by Arabs have been approved without first talking about how settlements have been proposed by Arab Israelis?  Clearly, you are incapable of thinking about anything but race.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
Click to expand...


How many Israeli communities include Arabs?  I don't know but under the law, they are all available to Arab Israelis who want to live there.

How many Israeli communities are Jewish only?  Zero.

It would be illegal for any of these communities to be either Arab only or Jewish only no matter how much your racist heart wants them to be, but all of areas A and B is Arab only.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are all terrible incidents.  Still, it's 3 incidents compared to the hundreds of terrorist attacks of Arabs against Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Btw, I didn't make this comparison of numbers only in order to portray the Arabs as animals.  I'm only answering your question.  Hundreds of incidents as opposed to 3, shows why demolition of homes is a regular practice concerning Arab terrorists.  3 or 4 oddball Israeli incidents in over 70 years don't need this kind of deterring practice.  And the killers of that Arab boy (who died as a result of a national tragedy) are serving life sentences.  (The boy's father refused to let his son's name go into a memorial for Israel's terror victims.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Something to consider.  Bulldozing homes is a form of collective punishment.  It also is not a deterrent.  Why do it?
Click to expand...

Bullshit.  It is an effective deterrent and we know this because there have been a number of cases in which family members reported their relative is planning a terror attack to protect their home.  If you were capable of thinking, I would say, that to know some one is planning to murder some one and doing nothing to try to prevent it is a clear case of depraved indifference, which in the US carries the same penalty as the murder, so calling home demolitions collective punishment, implying the other members of the family are innocent, is simply not applicable.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?



Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME). 

It is especially egregious since Israel's legal system demands equality while Palestine's legal system demands segregation.  Arabs demanding to live in an Israeli settlement will be legally supported.  Jews demanding to live in an Arab settlement will be murdered.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian runner Mohammed Alqadi raises the flag of Palestine as he represents Palestine in Geneva marathon today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

17-year-old Palestinian Ahed Tamimi, the teen who stood up to Israeli soldiers after they shot her cousin and was then arrested by Israeli forces, joined London's "National Demonstration for Palestine" today to mark the Nakba, which commemorates the 750,000 Palestinians forced to flee their homes in 1948, driven out by Zionist militias.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces raided and searched several homes and destroyed their furniture in the West Bank village of Urif, last night.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good Morning from the occupied Jerusalem ..


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## admonit

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course that is not true.  There have been just a few instances when Palestinian owned land was unjustly taken and Israeli courts have made adjustments to these cases overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There have been more than a few, when you you look at property confiscated through absentee land owner laws and “good faith” laws that rule in favor of Israel, not the land owner.
> Israel says will legalize West Bank homes built on private Palestinian land
> 
> but I agree, the bull dozing of homes is in retaliatian to terrorism.  But only Palestinian terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seventy years ago after the Arabs tried to overthrow the new Israeli government and then fled to neighboring states there was a redistribution of their property, and there was no rational alternative for the new state of Israel.  Since then, Arab and Jewish Israelis have been treated equally under the law.
> 
> Under Israeli law, Israeli courts have found that no settlements can be built or sustained on land owned by Palestinians, and there have been several cases in which the courts have ordered the government to demolish settlements the court has found to be on Palestinian land.  If the Palestinians had brought their claims to Israeli courts, and the court found they owned it, the government would not be able to legalize the settlements unless it could prove it was necessary for security purposes.  Clearly, the Palestinians who claim the land belongs to them have chosen not to pursue their claims through legal processes.
> 
> To date, Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria take up only about 1% of the land, and the total amount of land that has been approved for development is only 8%, so why all this hysteria about Israeli settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not entirely true.  There was a war.  Palestinians fled either out of conflict or were driven out by Jewish militias.  After that, most were not permitted back and absentee landowner laws were instituted to make it easier to confiscate their land.  In comparison, the laws made it quite easy for Jews to reclaim their land, but much more difficult for Palestinians to.  As a result, Israel was able to take a great deal of land.  These laws are still in effect.
> 
> Today, if settlements are built on privately owned land, one of several things can happen.  The courts can order it be returned to the rightful owners or they can “compensate” the rightful owner (which is meaningless if it is your property being wrongfully taken).  “National security” is a term used to cover a multitude of landgrab sins that don’t necessarily have anything to do with security (not unique to Israel) that simply transfers land to settlements.
> 
> Palestinian land seized by Israeli army, given to settlers:NGO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just as the PA can define property rights in areas A and B so Israel can define property rights in area C.  *Under the PA rules, Jews cant own property in areas A or B, but under Israeli law, all property rights that can be substantiated are respected.*
Click to expand...

Not really. Jews cannot privately purchase land in area C.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That might make a difference3 if it were the case that the Arab Palestinians were actually invaded.  But that is not the case.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority
> 
> 
> 
> It is always open season on invading military troops.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians rejected the opportunity to establish self-governing institutions.

◈  You might be able to make a case that the Jordanians were invaded.
◈  You might be able to make a case for the Jordanians being the invaders.
◈  You might be able to make the case that the 1967 Six-Day War was really an Extention of the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.​
But you cannot make the case that the Arab Palestinians, which were not a party to the 1948 conflict, and were not a party to the Six-Day War, --- were invaded.  The Arab Palestinians had no territorial control or integrity over any territory that was not continuously controlled by one or another of other powers for ≈ 800 years prior.  And certainly not since the Armistice of Mudros (1918).





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> That might make a difference3 if it were the case that the Arab Palestinians were actually invaded.  But that is not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a criminal act that if committed by the Hostile Arab Palestinian against the Civil/Military Authority
> 
> 
> 
> It is always open season on invading military troops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians rejected the opportunity to establish self-governing institutions.
> 
> ◈  You might be able to make a case that the Jordanians were invaded.
> ◈  You might be able to make a case for the Jordanians being the invaders.
> ◈  You might be able to make the case that the 1967 Six-Day War was really an Extention of the 1948 Invasion by the Arab League.​
> But you cannot make the case that the Arab Palestinians, which were not a party to the 1948 conflict, and were not a party to the Six-Day War, --- were invaded.  The Arab Palestinians had no territorial control or integrity over any territory that was not continuously controlled by one or another of other powers for ≈ 800 years prior.  And certainly not since the Armistice of Mudros (1918).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Foreign troops attacking the locals. How is that not an invasion?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

This is true, as far as it goes.



Coyote said:


> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?


*(COMMENT)*

The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities. 

Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.

Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is a rigged question.



P F Tinmore said:


> Foreign troops attacking the locals. How is that not an invasion?


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis were not the foreign troops and the territory was not sovereign Arab Palestinian.

I know that you like to think this way, because it fits your scenario, BUT once again, the Arab Palestinians:

◈  Had NO sovereignty invaded.

◈  Were NOT a party to the conflict as either a waring party or a political entity under siege.​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*(POINT)
*
You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.

Technically we are discussing "Acts of Aggression" (political terminology) or "nuisance per se" (international legal terminology):

✦  *(political terminology)*
"Aggression" is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":


(a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
(b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
✦ * (international legal terminology)*
"_nuisance per se_" is an act, occupation, or structure that is a nuisance at all times and under any circumstances, regardless of its location
or surroundings; acts that are denounced as illegal by law, when perpetration of them invades rights of others. From
an evidentiary point of view once a nuisance per se is established by proof, it becomes a nuisance as a matter of
law.​
I recommend that you either go all one way or all the other way; but not mix and match _(propaganda manipulation)_.  The reason you never see it put in this fashion is that the initial assault by the Forces of the Arab League (May 1948) would come under the heading of "_nuisance per se_" placing them unequivocally outside the law.  The international political body nor the international courts want to make such a commitment.  They would rather it be held in abeyance pending further investigation _(now in its seventh decade)_.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.


Bullshit! It is a time honored means of resisting oppression.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *(POINT)
> *
> You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.
> 
> Technically we are discussing "Acts of Aggression" (political terminology) or "nuisance per se" (international legal terminology):
> 
> ✦  *(political terminology)*
> "Aggression" is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.
> 
> Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":
> 
> 
> (a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
> (b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.
> ✦ * (international legal terminology)*
> "_nuisance per se_" is an act, occupation, or structure that is a nuisance at all times and under any circumstances, regardless of its location
> or surroundings; acts that are denounced as illegal by law, when perpetration of them invades rights of others. From
> an evidentiary point of view once a nuisance per se is established by proof, it becomes a nuisance as a matter of
> law.​
> I recommend that you either go all one way or all the other way; but not mix and match _(propaganda manipulation)_.  The reason you never see it put in this fashion is that the initial assault by the Forces of the Arab League (May 1948) would come under the heading of "_nuisance per se_" placing them unequivocally outside the law.  The international political body nor the international courts want to make such a commitment.  They would rather it be held in abeyance pending further investigation _(now in its seventh decade)_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R





RoccoR said:


> You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.


Foreigners went to Palestine, drove the people out at the point of a gun and stole their land.

What is complex?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
Click to expand...


Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You cannot believe it.  I understand.  But the law is totally opposed to your concept of "right and wrong (AKA:  The Rule of Law).



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! It is a time honored means of resisting oppression.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I have copied *Article 68 of the Fourth  Geneva Convention* more than two-dozen times for you.  It does not matter how you wrap it, or paint it, the fact is that YOU are wrong in two ways:

◈  By furthering the notion that such actions as "stone-throwing" are legal _("time-honored")_ is a form of encouragement of those that prone to such actions.

◈  By furthering the notion that "stone-throwing" _(solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ is not illegal, you are abandoning Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in favor of an afront to _*Article 43 Hague Regulation*_ on matters of public order and safety.

Your encouragement of such harmful acts of defiance is understood, given the irrational, emotional and lack of intellectual development of the Arab Palestinian community.  But that does not mean that it is any less improper or illegal to conduct intentional offenses which can cause serious injury or death.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.
> 
> 
> 
> Foreigners went to Palestine, drove the people out at the point of a gun and stole their land.
> 
> What is complex?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Because your perspective is missing bits of key information.

◈  "Foreigners went to Palestine" →  the bits missing are:

✦  Foreign Forces went to Palestine as a part of the greater effort to defeat the Ottoman Empire in the course of combating the Axis Powers in the Great War (World War One - WWI).​
◈ "drove the people out at the point of a gun" →  the bits missing are:

✦  It is generally the case that major conflicts throughout history have an unintended consequence of creating genuine refugees and displaced persons.​
◈ "stole their land" →  the bits missing are:

✦  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights to the territories situated outside the frontier of Turkey.

✦ The territories and islands released by Treaty to the Allied Powers. 

✦ The future of the renounced territories and islands to be settled by the parties concerned.​
Your attempt to simplify the issues on the "Question of Palestine" does not come even remotely close to the key issues in hand.

REMEMBER:  The 1967 Six-Day War started when the Arab League Forces renounced the Armistice Agreement and evicted the UN Emergency Force (Sinai Desert) between Egypt and Israel.  The 1967 Six-Day War was not a separate war of its own, but the renewed engagement of enemy forces precipitated by the 1948 Israeli War of Independence.  The 1967 Six-Day War was concluded in stages, with the first in 1979 with the Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel.  The second stage was marked by the  Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed in October 1994.

*(EPILOG)*

How has the Hostile Arab Palestinian worked for them, and helped them accomplish their goal?  

​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You cannot believe it.  I understand.  But the law is totally opposed to your concept of "right and wrong (AKA:  The Rule of Law).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! It is a time honored means of resisting oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have copied *Article 68 of the Fourth  Geneva Convention* more than two-dozen times for you.  It does not matter how you wrap it, or paint it, the fact is that YOU are wrong in two ways:
> 
> ◈  By furthering the notion that such actions as "stone-throwing" are legal _("time-honored")_ is a form of encouragement of those that prone to such actions.
> 
> ◈  By furthering the notion that "stone-throwing" _(solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ is not illegal, you are abandoning Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in favor of an afront to _*Article 43 Hague Regulation*_ on matters of public order and safety.
> 
> Your encouragement of such harmful acts of defiance is understood, given the irrational, emotional and lack of intellectual development of the Arab Palestinian community.  But that does not mean that it is any less improper or illegal to conduct intentional offenses which can cause serious injury or death.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreigners went to Palestine, drove the people out at the point of a gun and stole their land.
> 
> What is complex?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Because your perspective is missing bits of key information.
> 
> ◈  "Foreigners went to Palestine" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  Foreign Forces went to Palestine as a part of the greater effort to defeat the Ottoman Empire in the course of combating the Axis Powers in the Great War (World War One - WWI).​◈ "drove the people out at the point of a gun" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  It is generally the case that major conflicts throughout history have an unintended consequence of creating genuine refugees and displaced persons.​◈ "stole their land" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights to the territories situated outside the frontier of Turkey.
> 
> ✦ The territories and islands released by Treaty to the Allied Powers.
> 
> ✦ The future of the renounced territories and islands to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> Your attempt to simplify the issues on the "Question of Palestine" does not come even remotely close to the key issues in hand.
> 
> REMEMBER:  The 1967 Six-Day War started when the Arab League Forces renounced the Armistice Agreement and evicted the UN Emergency Force (Sinai Desert) between Egypt and Israel.  The 1967 Six-Day War was not a separate war of its own, but the renewed engagement of enemy forces precipitated by the 1948 Israeli War of Independence.  The 1967 Six-Day War was concluded in stages, with the first in 1979 with the Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel.  The second stage was marked by the  Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed in October 1994.
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> How has the Hostile Arab Palestinian worked for them, and helped them accomplish their goal?
> View attachment 293737​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


What could be worse then  stating ( as he did in one of my posts) that Israel initiated the 67 War?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You cannot believe it.  I understand.  But the law is totally opposed to your concept of "right and wrong (AKA:  The Rule of Law).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit! It is a time honored means of resisting oppression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I have copied *Article 68 of the Fourth  Geneva Convention* more than two-dozen times for you.  It does not matter how you wrap it, or paint it, the fact is that YOU are wrong in two ways:
> 
> ◈  By furthering the notion that such actions as "stone-throwing" are legal _("time-honored")_ is a form of encouragement of those that prone to such actions.
> 
> ◈  By furthering the notion that "stone-throwing" _(solely intended to harm the Occupying Power)_ is not illegal, you are abandoning Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) in favor of an afront to _*Article 43 Hague Regulation*_ on matters of public order and safety.
> 
> Your encouragement of such harmful acts of defiance is understood, given the irrational, emotional and lack of intellectual development of the Arab Palestinian community.  But that does not mean that it is any less improper or illegal to conduct intentional offenses which can cause serious injury or death.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are attempting to use a "layman's term" (invade) and apply it to a complex question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Foreigners went to Palestine, drove the people out at the point of a gun and stole their land.
> 
> What is complex?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Because your perspective is missing bits of key information.
> 
> ◈  "Foreigners went to Palestine" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  Foreign Forces went to Palestine as a part of the greater effort to defeat the Ottoman Empire in the course of combating the Axis Powers in the Great War (World War One - WWI).​◈ "drove the people out at the point of a gun" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  It is generally the case that major conflicts throughout history have an unintended consequence of creating genuine refugees and displaced persons.​◈ "stole their land" →  the bits missing are:
> 
> ✦  The Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounces all rights to the territories situated outside the frontier of Turkey.
> 
> ✦ The territories and islands released by Treaty to the Allied Powers.
> 
> ✦ The future of the renounced territories and islands to be settled by the parties concerned.​
> Your attempt to simplify the issues on the "Question of Palestine" does not come even remotely close to the key issues in hand.
> 
> REMEMBER:  The 1967 Six-Day War started when the Arab League Forces renounced the Armistice Agreement and evicted the UN Emergency Force (Sinai Desert) between Egypt and Israel.  The 1967 Six-Day War was not a separate war of its own, but the renewed engagement of enemy forces precipitated by the 1948 Israeli War of Independence.  The 1967 Six-Day War was concluded in stages, with the first in 1979 with the Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel.  The second stage was marked by the  Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed in October 1994.
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> How has the Hostile Arab Palestinian worked for them, and helped them accomplish their goal?
> View attachment 293737​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> in favor of an afront to _*Article 43 Hague Regulation*_ on matters of public order and safety.


There you go again with another false premise. Israel has never been about public order and safety. It has always been about ethnic cleansing and land theft.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestinian elderly Fadel Hamdan from Jab'a village in central West Bank was assaulted and beaten up by Zionist Israeli settlers while he was trying to prevent them from stealing his olives !


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Now this cute little girl can hug her dad after 11 months of prison in Israeli occupation jails.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Ethnic Cleansing Started Before the War—500+ Palestinian towns and villages were depopulated by Zionist forces in the Nakba (1947-49). Nearly half were depopulated before Arab military forces entered the conflict.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrest a Palestinian girl during a protest staged by a group of youths in Jerusalem in solidarity with the Palestinian prisoner Samer al-Arabeed who was severely tortured by Israeli interrogators and is currently in a coma in an Israeli hospital.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian chef Joudie Kalla to attend Palestine Expo 2019*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


And now her parents will train her to be a terrorist in the hope she will be killed in a terror attack against Jews so that the can collect the a pension from the PA's martyr fund.  It appears that among Palestinians raising children is consider a cash crop.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

No goons with guns.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Now this cute little girl can hug her dad after 11 months of prison in Israeli occupation jails.



To you, all Palestinian Arabs are victims and all Israeli Jews are criminals and thieves.  You're so extreme that you don't even recognize israel proper.  You are completely and 100% one-sided.  I don't even know what dog you have in this fight since you claim to be from Scandinavian descent.  It seems you spend all your time scouring the bowels of the Internet, in order to put up images to portray Israel and its citizens in the worst light possible.  My grandparents and other relatives were forced to leave Europe after WW2, and they had no place to go to besides Israel.  They were denied visas to America at that time.  Besides that, every nook and cranny in Israel is filled with Jewish history.  In fact, most of the Arab names of cities and towns were taken from Jewish names and then Arabicized.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Life Under Occupation.

Israeli occupation soldier detain number of Palestinian youths after raiding Dair Netham village .


----------



## P F Tinmore

*'This Divestment Bill Hurts My Feelings', by Remi Kanazi*

**


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All lies.  There is no Israeli occupation, rather there is security control.  The Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA and receive travel documents from the PA that are widely recognized by other countries.  They have the right to vote in PA elections and are free to build and farm in areas A and B, as per the Oslo agreement.  *Only terrorists are shot and only the  homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *My point, of course, is that the only Palestinians who are shot are terrorists *and then only when it is not possible to subdue them without putting others in danger.  You, of course, are only capable of seeing this situation in racist terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post this because you are unable to see things except through racist eyes.  Only terrorists have been de;oberately shot and only when they could not be subdued in other ways without endangering more people.  I am unaware of any cases in which Jewish terrorists could not be subdued without lethal force.  Clearly, it would never occur to you to ask about the circumstances under which terrorists have been shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is racist about what what I said?  Your fall back seems to be to scream racist.
> 
> What have I said that is racist?
> 
> You did not answer my question.  Why is it Jewish terrorists do not get their family homes bulldozed?
Click to expand...


The question is about citizenship rather than ethnicity.
And cultural focus on death culture backed by a state policy of incentives for individuals to commit murder and suicide.

You don't expect a country to punish its murderers as those of an enemy state.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
Click to expand...

Obviously, when Israelis and Palestinians are throwing stones at eah other they are doing the same thing.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
Click to expand...


How is it hypocritical?  You are comparing apples and oranges in Area C.  The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.  Not the unjust expulsion of Jews from multiple Arab countries if that is what you are referring to.  All that is is attempting to divert away from a particular issue.

You want to talk how wrong it was for Arab countries to expel their Jews?  Fine, because I am pretty sure we agree on that.

You want talk about how Arab countries refuse to allow Jews to live there? I suspect we agree on the wrongness of that.

You want to talk about how the Palestinians won’t allow Jews to remain there?  I suspect we agree there too, it is wrong.

So let’s actually discuss settlements without mandating calling out all these other things.  Settlements of ISRAELI CITIZENS.  Not Palestinians, but citizens who are supposed to all have the same rights except for settlements.



> It is especially egregious since Israel's legal system demands equality while Palestine's legal system demands segregation.  Arabs demanding to live in an Israeli settlement will be legally supported.  Jews demanding to live in an Arab settlement will be murdered.



Legally...in law..yes.  But practice?  When municipal governments act otherwise?

Israeli Arabs suffer from the same housing shortages and overcrowding (possibly more so) as Jews.  So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Except almost no Israeli does that,
while it's a wide spread cultural phenomena among Muslims backed by their states,
also practiced as capital punishment for transgressing Sharia.

When Israelis throw stones it's a scoop for the news, while a common practice among Arabs that everyone takes for granted.


----------



## Coyote

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t true.  Non terrorists have been shot, though to be fair, compared to many, the IDF is exceedingly careful of civilian casualties.
> 
> How many homes of Jewish terrorists have been bulldozed?  I will wait.
> 
> Oh...and enlighten me on all this supposed racism because I am not seeing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
Click to expand...

Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?

When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?

Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Only terrorists are shot and only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed. * None of them are having their land taken away from them and Israeli courts have restored land that may have been taken unjustly in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
Click to expand...


Another silly sound byte.

That's the same if you name your daughter 'New York' and whine claiming its "her land" when removed from a shack in the middle of Times Square.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
Click to expand...


Of course the murder of that Arab boy was unjustified, and especially because of the particularly horrible way he died.  Still, though, it did not happen out of the blue, and did not come out of nowhere.  The nation of Israel is very small and the kidnapping of the 3 Israeli boys plunged the entire country into a national tragedy.  Everyone was praying for them, including Diaspora Jews.  My mom, sister and even my sensitive nephew all shed tears over them.  The fact that they were missing for quite some time, were prayed over, and then finally found dead, all played into the national trauma.  As tragic as the Arab boy's death was, it didn't happen inside of a vaccuum.  Leaving out the background and context of the Arab boy's murder is kind of misleading, imo.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, toomuchtime_, et al,
> 
> Well, I don't think that is what International Law says.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correction.  Only PALESTINIAN terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What I think it says, and what is being done, in the case *obligations under international law* of is this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S/RES/1624 (2005) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Calls upon all States to adopt such measures as may be necessary and appropriate and in accordance with their *obligations under international law* to:
> 
> (a)  Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> (b)  Prevent such conduct;
> 
> (c)  *Deny safe haven* to any persons with respect to whom there is credible and relevant information giving serious reasons for considering that they have been guilty of such conduct;​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​This comes under the much broader heading of “*Denying Safe Haven to those who Finance, Plan, Support or Commit Terrorist Acts* or *Provide Safe Havens*, and Preventing Terrorists from Abusing the Asylum System, in conformity with International Law”.  This can be seen in more detail in the Open briefing of the Counter-Terrorism Committee.
> 
> This is the implementation of clearing property that “constitutes a severe security threat and can provide cover to suicide bombers and other terrorists hiding among civilian population.”
> 
> *(OTHER CONCERNS)*
> 
> This is not to be confused with the process by which private property is taken for the purpose of public use. Prior to the taking, the property is said to be “condemned property”, meaning that it has been marked for destruction or modification in order that the plot of land can be used for public use.
> 
> And we should not get this confused with the condemnation of "substandard buildings" under the provisions of the Occupation Law, which, in addition thereto, presents an immediate and imminent threat to public safety. Such threats may arise by virtue of numerous circumstances such as, but not limited to, substantial risk of collapse or danger of fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The original premise was: *only the homes of terrorists are bulldozed.
> *
> This is not true. The vast number of homes bulldozed is for Israel to steal the land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just a silly sound byte.
> 
> When a squatter builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, it doesn't become his land.
> Neither law enforcement is "stealing land" when applied to illegal Arab settlements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Palestinians building on their own land is an illegal settlement.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well...as far as I can tell, Arab Israelis have not been granted permits to create new settlements in the Area C, they are frequently denied building and expansion permits, and their government invests far less in their infrastructure than in that of it's Jewish citizens, even to the point of providing infrastructure to illegal (under Israeli law) settlements. So it is certainly inequitable. The other thing that increases the divide is Israel's Jewish citizens get a lot of funding from outside donors that is expressly for Jewish settlement.  I dont think it's Arab citizens do to same extent.  So there is both a political and financial preference for expanding Jewish housing.
Click to expand...


Jews get funding from Jewish donors,
while Arabs from the EU, UN, the Arab League and the rest the world.

The question is rather how many Israeli Arabs requested a permit to build in Judea?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Besides Baruch Goldstein, how many Jewish terrorists have there been?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
Click to expand...

There is no moral equivalence here.  When the Palestinian boy was tortured and killed, the state of Israel arrested and prosecuted the perpetrators, one mentally disturbed adult and a few children he had influence over, but when the three Israeli boys were murdered the killers became Palestinian culture heroes and their families were paid handsomely for the killings.  While there are very infrequent terrorist attacks by Israelis against Palestinians, daily there are several attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians against Israelis; when an Israeli commits an act of terror, he is punished, but when a Palestinian commits an act of terror against an Israeli, he is celebrated by the people and rewarded by the government.  

Incitement to terrorism is  crime in Israel, but it is pervasive among the Palestinians, it comes from every aspect of their society, their schools, their mosques, their media, and certainly from all their political leaders.  While there are some radical voices among Israelis, they are widely and publicly condemned, but there are only radical voices among the Palestinians because to object to killing Jews would make you a collaborator and put your life in danger.  Only someone as profoundly racist as yourself would fail to see these differences.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it hypocritical?  You are comparing apples and oranges in Area C.  The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.  Not the unjust expulsion of Jews from multiple Arab countries if that is what you are referring to.  All that is is attempting to divert away from a particular issue.
> 
> You want to talk how wrong it was for Arab countries to expel their Jews?  Fine, because I am pretty sure we agree on that.
> 
> You want talk about how Arab countries refuse to allow Jews to live there? I suspect we agree on the wrongness of that.
> 
> You want to talk about how the Palestinians won’t allow Jews to remain there?  I suspect we agree there too, it is wrong.
> 
> So let’s actually discuss settlements without mandating calling out all these other things.  Settlements of ISRAELI CITIZENS.  Not Palestinians, but citizens who are supposed to all have the same rights except for settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is especially egregious since Israel's legal system demands equality while Palestine's legal system demands segregation.  Arabs demanding to live in an Israeli settlement will be legally supported.  Jews demanding to live in an Arab settlement will be murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legally...in law..yes.  But practice?  When municipal governments act otherwise?
> 
> Israeli Arabs suffer from the same housing shortages and overcrowding (possibly more so) as Jews.  So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?
Click to expand...


In reality, there's no house shortage or overcrowding outside the scope of propaganda and  construction contractors' schemes (which is dominated by the Arab sector) to keep prices high.

What there is, are millenials who expect to live in Tel-Aviv and the surrounding area, where a single room apartment rent is worth 2-3 rents of a normal one in the north and south.

Arabs have an access to building materials and workers at much, much lower price rates -
for reasons mentioned above. And while an average Jewish family with 4 kids is content with an apartment in a building, the same Arab family will usually build a multi level house just for themselves.

And again how many Israeli Arabs requested a permit to build in Judea?


----------



## Coyote

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course the murder of that Arab boy was unjustified, and especially because of the particularly horrible way he died.  Still, though, it did not happen out of the blue, and did not come out of nowhere.  The nation of Israel is very small and the kidnapping of the 3 Israeli boys plunged the entire country into a national tragedy.  Everyone was praying for them, including Diaspora Jews.  My mom, sister and even my sensitive nephew all shed tears over them.  The fact that they were missing for quite some time, were prayed over, and then finally found dead, all played into the national trauma.  As tragic as the Arab boy's death was, it didn't happen inside of a vaccuum.  Leaving out the background and context of the Arab boy's murder is kind of misleading, imo.
Click to expand...


Nothing happens in a vacuum.  Palestinians have also murdered innocent out of revenge for the killing of a Palestinian... it is not misleading to “leave it out” because bringing it in is a way of subtly justifying it (as Palestinians have done at times to justify murder) In and of itself, the kidnapping and murder of those three boys was horrific. But it should not in any way be used to explain (justify) what was done out of revenge.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If stone throwers are terrorists then the ones that have lobbed stones at Palestinians, including one that killed a Palestinian mother; the ones that kidnapped an Arab boy, poured gasoline on him and burned him alive; the ones that firebombed a house in Duma killing most of the family inside.  If you consider non lethal assaults and property destruction to be terrorism then there are more examples.
> 
> Did any Jewish terrorist homes get bulldozed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no moral equivalence here.  When the Palestinian boy was tortured and killed, the state of Israel arrested and prosecuted the perpetrators, one mentally disturbed adult and a few children he had influence over, but when the three Israeli boys were murdered the killers became Palestinian culture heroes and their families were paid handsomely for the killings.  While there are very infrequent terrorist attacks by Israelis against Palestinians, daily there are several attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians against Israelis; when an Israeli commits an act of terror, he is punished, but when a Palestinian commits an act of terror against an Israeli, he is celebrated by the people and rewarded by the government.
> 
> Incitement to terrorism is  crime in Israel, but it is pervasive among the Palestinians, it comes from every aspect of their society, their schools, their mosques, their media, and certainly from all their political leaders.  While there are some radical voices among Israelis, they are widely and publicly condemned, but there are only radical voices among the Palestinians because to object to killing Jews would make you a collaborator and put your life in danger.  Only someone as profoundly racist as yourself would fail to see these differences.
Click to expand...

Is that all you can do?  Scream “racist”?

Please note, I am not and have not defended the fact that the Palestinians protect their murderers.


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> 
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no moral equivalence here.  When the Palestinian boy was tortured and killed, the state of Israel arrested and prosecuted the perpetrators, one mentally disturbed adult and a few children he had influence over, but when the three Israeli boys were murdered the killers became Palestinian culture heroes and their families were paid handsomely for the killings.  While there are very infrequent terrorist attacks by Israelis against Palestinians, daily there are several attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians against Israelis; when an Israeli commits an act of terror, he is punished, but when a Palestinian commits an act of terror against an Israeli, he is celebrated by the people and rewarded by the government.
> 
> Incitement to terrorism is  crime in Israel, but it is pervasive among the Palestinians, it comes from every aspect of their society, their schools, their mosques, their media, and certainly from all their political leaders.  While there are some radical voices among Israelis, they are widely and publicly condemned, but there are only radical voices among the Palestinians because to object to killing Jews would make you a collaborator and put your life in danger.  Only someone as profoundly racist as yourself would fail to see these differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you can do?  Scream “racist”?
> 
> Please note, I am not and have not defended the fact that the Palestinians protect their murderers.
Click to expand...


Palestinians don't just protect murderers,
their state runs a pay-for-slay policy, openly inciting them to murder promising fat salaries, and the more they murder the more they receive.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it hypocritical?  You are comparing apples and oranges in Area C.  The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.  Not the unjust expulsion of Jews from multiple Arab countries if that is what you are referring to.  All that is is attempting to divert away from a particular issue.
> 
> You want to talk how wrong it was for Arab countries to expel their Jews?  Fine, because I am pretty sure we agree on that.
> 
> You want talk about how Arab countries refuse to allow Jews to live there? I suspect we agree on the wrongness of that.
> 
> You want to talk about how the Palestinians won’t allow Jews to remain there?  I suspect we agree there too, it is wrong.
> 
> So let’s actually discuss settlements without mandating calling out all these other things.  Settlements of ISRAELI CITIZENS.  Not Palestinians, but citizens who are supposed to all have the same rights except for settlements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is especially egregious since Israel's legal system demands equality while Palestine's legal system demands segregation.  Arabs demanding to live in an Israeli settlement will be legally supported.  Jews demanding to live in an Arab settlement will be murdered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Legally...in law..yes.  But practice?  When municipal governments act otherwise?
> 
> Israeli Arabs suffer from the same housing shortages and overcrowding (possibly more so) as Jews.  So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?
Click to expand...

First you put up a post riddled with  lies about "Jew only" settlements and then you bristle when someone calls you on it.  With the exception of compulsory military service, Arab Israelis have all the same rights and responsibilities as other Israelis, and few other countries have invested in the outreach efforts to their minorities as Israeli has.

Your dim witted question about Arab settlements in area C is the product of your extensive ignorance and bigotry.  First, any settlement in area C would be an Israeli settlement and subject to Israeli law, so it could not be exclusively for Jews or Arabs, and while to your racist eyes, if only Arabs lived there, it would be an Arab settlement, to the Palestinians it would be  just one  more Israeli settlement and the Arab Israelis who lived there would be seen as collaborators.  

You work so hard to try to justify your irrational hostility toward Israel, and yet the harder you try, the more you expose your own bigotry.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> 
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no moral equivalence here.  When the Palestinian boy was tortured and killed, the state of Israel arrested and prosecuted the perpetrators, one mentally disturbed adult and a few children he had influence over, but when the three Israeli boys were murdered the killers became Palestinian culture heroes and their families were paid handsomely for the killings.  While there are very infrequent terrorist attacks by Israelis against Palestinians, daily there are several attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians against Israelis; when an Israeli commits an act of terror, he is punished, but when a Palestinian commits an act of terror against an Israeli, he is celebrated by the people and rewarded by the government.
> 
> Incitement to terrorism is  crime in Israel, but it is pervasive among the Palestinians, it comes from every aspect of their society, their schools, their mosques, their media, and certainly from all their political leaders.  While there are some radical voices among Israelis, they are widely and publicly condemned, but there are only radical voices among the Palestinians because to object to killing Jews would make you a collaborator and put your life in danger.  Only someone as profoundly racist as yourself would fail to see these differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you can do?  Scream “racist”?
> 
> Please note, I am not and have not defended the fact that the Palestinians protect their murderers.
Click to expand...

lol  I clearly said much more than that, but typically, your racism prevents you from seeing any more than that.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very conveniently, you seem to “forget “ the above was in response to the three Israeli boys kidnapped by Hamas and murdered
> 
> 
> 
> When you say something like that, it implies that that some how excuses it or justifies it.
> 
> It does not matter one bit what was in response to.  The boy that was murdered did nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither did the three boys that were murdered. Why didn’t you mention them ? Because Jewish lives do not matter
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did I need to?  Did it change the horrible murder of the one boy?  Does it justify it in your eyes?
> 
> When you talk about the murder of a Jew, do you bring up prior murders of Palestinians? So much of this is “revenge” why don’t you bring up prior killings?
> 
> Because it does not matter.  It in no way what so ever justifies what was done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no moral equivalence here.  When the Palestinian boy was tortured and killed, the state of Israel arrested and prosecuted the perpetrators, one mentally disturbed adult and a few children he had influence over, but when the three Israeli boys were murdered the killers became Palestinian culture heroes and their families were paid handsomely for the killings.  While there are very infrequent terrorist attacks by Israelis against Palestinians, daily there are several attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians against Israelis; when an Israeli commits an act of terror, he is punished, but when a Palestinian commits an act of terror against an Israeli, he is celebrated by the people and rewarded by the government.
> 
> Incitement to terrorism is  crime in Israel, but it is pervasive among the Palestinians, it comes from every aspect of their society, their schools, their mosques, their media, and certainly from all their political leaders.  While there are some radical voices among Israelis, they are widely and publicly condemned, but there are only radical voices among the Palestinians because to object to killing Jews would make you a collaborator and put your life in danger.  Only someone as profoundly racist as yourself would fail to see these differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that all you can do?  Scream “racist”?
> 
> Please note, I am not and have not defended the fact that the Palestinians protect their murderers.
Click to expand...

Palestinians do not just protect their murderers, if  the victim is a Jew, they encourage them, they celebrate them and they pay them.  Racist that you are, you continue to ignore the facts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
Click to expand...

They are not the same at all. The settlers are occupiers while the Palestinians are the occupied. They are coming from two different places.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not the same at all. The settlers are occupiers while the Palestinians are the occupied. They are coming from two different places.
Click to expand...


Another silty sound byte.

Fact is, so called "Palestinians" came from the same Arab countries from where they expelled the Jews. Only that the latter can actually pronounce "Palestine" and understand what the word means, while Arabs don't.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Activists from "Oldham Justice and Peace" called for closure of factory of "Elbit Ferranti" Israeli arms company in Manchester in protest against killing of Palestinians by drones produced by company.
#BoycottIsrael #BDS #StopArmingIsrael


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> This is true, as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, most stone throwing is, despite bad outcomes, the result of angry kids...not terrorism, right?
> 
> But if the intent is to terrorize a particular group of people...then it becomes terrorism doesn’t it?  So if Palestinians do it for that reason and Jews do it for that reason,they are the same, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The "stone-throwing" is NOT an "act of terrorism" _(in and by itself)_.  It is a "criminal act" that results in the support, facilitates of terrorist activity; or encouraging terrorist activities.
> 
> Stone-throwing is also used as a means to incite further violence.  In some cases, "stone-throwing" is an action that is specifically designed to be a media event contrived and choreographed for maximum presentation for a propaganda effect of exaggerated events.
> 
> Remember, "stone-throwing" is against International Humanitarian Law.  It is not justified action or response to enforcement of law and order by any force construed to be an "Occupying Power."
> ₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​
> I have noticed that the pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians movements like to portray the Arab Palestinian as victims using "stone-throwing" against a foreign oppressor as a lawful sign of displeasure.  Conditioning the statement as if the act were legal and the Israeli response against the assault is illegal.  Such an interpretation is 180º out of phase with the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are not the same at all. The settlers are occupiers while the Palestinians are the occupied. They are coming from two different places.
Click to expand...

Empty words that have no basis in fact or logic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

15 years after ICJ declared Separation Wall illegal, West Bank barrier continues to destroy Palestinian lives.
Cartoon by Carlos Latuff


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> 15 years after ICJ declared Separation Wall illegal, West Bank barrier continues to destroy Palestinian lives.
> Cartoon by Carlos Latuff


The ICJ had no jurisdiction and this was just an advisory opinion that has no standing.  This is a fine example of why so many countries, including he US, do not acknowledge the ICJ.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


Wow, an academic whose specialty is anti Israeli propaganda!


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it hypocritical?
Click to expand...


It is hypocritical in that you complain about "Jew-only settlements" but never seem to mention Arab-only settlements (despite the actual difference in law in those settlements).

Its hypocritical in that you demand equality between Jews and Arabs in Israel and Area C while supporting and insisting upon the maintenance of Jew-free zones in Areas A, B, C, and Gaza. 

Its hypocritical because you ignore the reality that segregation of Jews and Arabs is largely both mutually agreeable and mutually sought after, and that there is a WAR on-going between these two peoples. 

And its hypocritical because you never seem to acknowledge the illegal building by Arabs, often aided by the international community and NGOs  illegally interfering in Israel's sovereign rights.



> The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.


It is not a political program.  A political program would be a government transferring portions of its population to another territory in order to establish a claim.  (See Morocco and Western Sahara).  Israel and the Jewish people already have a claim.  They have, by far, the BEST claim.  By right and not on sufferance.

The settlement of Judea and Samaria by the Jewish people is not a political program -- its a program of asserting the historical, national and sovereign rights in the homeland of the Jewish people.  It is lead, largely, by the Jewish people themselves (though Israel, of course, must adapt and make response as appropriate). 

Why would the Jewish people, as individuals and collectively, obligated to refrain from living in parts of their homeland?  Why is Israel obligated to actively prevent Jews from living in parts of their own homeland?  They aren't.  And she isn't. 



> So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?


Well, there are, of course.  There are also encroachments from Areas A and B into Area C, which are permitted by Israel.  You just don't like to acknowledge them.  But I'd also suggest you consider how Arab Palestinians are likely to treat Arabs building a town with the explicit intention of annexation for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Salma Karmi-Ayyoub on 'Nation Law: Israeli Apartheid State' at Palestine Expo 2019*
> 
> **



The word 'exclusive' is not in the law.
During the presentation she intentionally changes the terms, step by step to fit an agenda.

What she describes as an 'ethnocratic' state is simply another loaded word for what's called a nation state, which is exactly what the law defines.

There're currently 21 nation states in the world, and while she tries to single out Israel,
a nation state is exactly what the Arabs themselves demand.

So please explain, why in the world can't there be *just* *one* for the Jewish nation,
while they demand *another* Arab one?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Foreign troops in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Foreign troops in Palestine.



Until a final agreement concerning the West Bank is reached, they have to patrol some areas of it to keep law and order.  And that final agreement will never be reached as long as some ppl refer to all of Israel proper as Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

August 23, 2014: Hussein Khaled Ahmed, 7, was killed by an Israeli missile fired at his home. Hussein was from Deir al-Balah, Gaza.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> August 23, 2014: Hussein Khaled Ahmed, 7, was killed by an Israeli missile fired at his home. Hussein was from Deir al-Balah, Gaza.



Why did Hamas put a rocket launcher right next to his house?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

BLUF:  Yes!  _(With the reservations as noted.)_

I would agree that, in certain settlement areas _(certainly not all)_, there appears to exist a cultural "feud" _(prolonged hostility)_ between the Jewish Settlers and the localized Arab Palestinians.  This is not so different from the clan conflicts in the Northern Appalachian Mountains in America _(the Hatfield 'v' McCoy controversy being one of the most famous)_.  But just as the clan feuds of the Northern Appalachian Mountains were localized and not indicative of the overall relationship between the two general populations, the long persistence of clan-like confrontations has reached epic proportions, not unlike Northern Appalachian Mountain feuds _(ie Hatfield-McCoy)_.



Coyote said:


> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?


*(COMMENT)*

The very poor analysis _(by both sides and media observers seeking fame)_ of the adverse confrontations between the Israeli Settler 'v' Local Arab Palestinians in now almost indistinguishable from the reasons and political framework of the overarching nature of the generalized acts of terror between the major terrorist groups and government-sponsored terrorism directed against the Israeli civilian population.

*(EXEMPLARS)*

The feud between the Jewish Settlers and the localized Arab Palestinians is NOT strictly for the same purposes as that expressed by the Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD).  It is very similar _(in many cases)_ to the complexion behind the "Wyoming Range War" typified by the 'INVADER" notion between the new Farming Homesteaders and the Cattleman Barons of the Stock-Grower's Association.  Similarly, there was an atmosphere of corruptions, intimidation, and political conniving manipulators _(AKA: Robber Barons)_ that fleeced property owners, farmers, and ranchers for railroad right-of-ways; or that of the organized criminal claim jumpers for gold and silver mining; or that of the land grabbing of oil-rich land from the American Indians.   All these examples used an element of induced terror to accomplish the end result.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)*  Because of the overt nature of the activity.  And while everyone looked one the criminal takeover of Chicago and the Tammany Hall political corruption New York political machine were done in the open _(meaning everyone understood the illegal shadow of the activities)_, often maintaining control through intimidation and murder *(ie "terrorism")*.

Today, the criminal gangs of Los Angeles use terrorism to maintain their control over large expanses of the area and prevent enforcement and prosecution for their activities.  This is done through neighborhood intimidation through terrorism.  Again, this is not considered.  But you can go into any of the street gang territories _(of any color and ethnicity)_ and feel the impact.

The application of the description of terrorism has to be focused on the type, kind, and magnitude.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldier assaults human rights activist Aref Jaber to prevent him from documenting the Israeli demolition of an agricultural pool in Hebron on Tuesday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

‘Israel’ has already demolished and seized 538 houses and structures in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem in 2018 only, displacing 1300 Palestinians including 225 children.


----------



## P F Tinmore

41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.
all our refugees are victims of Israel terrorism ,but we keep our right of return alive through hope and resistance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel has been following a demolition policy targeting everything owned by Palestinians, to force them leave their properties and allow illegal Jewish settlers to replace them.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Foreign troops in Palestine.


Palestine is just a state of mind.  There is Israel and the disputed territories (some of which is about to become Israel) and if Israeli troops were not there, the Arabs would have a civil war as they did in Gaza and Hamas would have hung Abbas' bullet riddled body from an olive tree.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.
> all our refugees are victims of Israel terrorism ,but we keep our right of return alive through hope and resistance.




YAWN..... Live in peace with their Neighbors   . Keep dreaming !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> August 23, 2014: Hussein Khaled Ahmed, 7, was killed by an Israeli missile fired at his home. Hussein was from Deir al-Balah, Gaza.







GOT YA !!!!!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign troops in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine is just a state of mind.  There is Israel and the disputed territories (some of which is about to become Israel) and if Israeli troops were not there, the Arabs would have a civil war as they did in Gaza and Hamas would have hung Abbas' bullet riddled body from an olive tree.
Click to expand...


Right after the Oslo Accords, the Arabs in the disputed territories started a crazy and savage suicide bombing campaign against the Israelis, who have still not recovered from that trauma to this day.  And now the PA (who are the supposed "good guys") have a "pay to slay" program going on.  If the West Bank Arabs can ever get their act together and act like civilized, Westernized human beings, perhaps an agreement can finally be worked out.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.
> all our refugees are victims of Israel terrorism ,but we keep our right of return alive through hope and resistance.








Arabs have no one to blame but themselves,
in fact the number of Jews they expelled was greater than the number of Arabs fleeing on their orders.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Aref Jaber is a very well known propaganda journalist and member of the radical leftist in the Human Rights Defenders Group (HRG).   The HRG is a small fragment of the larger (but mostly dormant) organization known as the Human Rights Defenders (HRD).  Like our friend "P F Tinmore," the HRG specializes in making one-line comments about events such as this, *WITHOUT* the backstory or context behind the event as recorded here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldier assaults human rights activist Aref Jaber to prevent him from documenting the Israeli demolition of an agricultural pool in Hebron on Tuesday.


*(COMMENT)*

Organizations like the HRG, and others, are a scrambled subculture or those people who believe they are on a crusade to save_ (whatever their conception of "Palestine" might be)_ by presenting their subjective influence in the manner they wish.   They are mindlessly operating in the realm of direct or indirect manipulative and dissemination of disinformation. 

The only purpose a photo, supra, without the story → is to allow the imagination to processes as it will; not necessarily what is real.  The only commentary to the photo is that the Israelis are demolishing an agricultural pool _(nfi)_.  It tells us virtually nothing about the who in the Joint Civil Government ordered the demolition, what the purpose of the authorized demolition, or why the necessity.  Instead, there is merely the unsupported assumption made that it is illegal; without citation.

What I see is a policeman *(not a soldier)* and cameraman struggling over a bag of some sort.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Aref Jaber is a very well known propaganda journalist and member of the radical leftist in the Human Rights Defenders Group (HRG).   The HRG is a small fragment of the larger (but mostly dormant) organization known as the Human Rights Defenders (HRD).  Like our friend "P F Tinmore," the HRG specializes in making one-line comments about events such as this, *WITHOUT* the backstory or context behind the event as recorded here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldier assaults human rights activist Aref Jaber to prevent him from documenting the Israeli demolition of an agricultural pool in Hebron on Tuesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Organizations like the HRG, and others, are a scrambled subculture or those people who believe they are on a crusade to save_ (whatever their conception of "Palestine" might be)_ by presenting their subjective influence in the manner they wish.   They are mindlessly operating in the realm of direct or indirect manipulative and dissemination of disinformation.
> 
> The only purpose a photo, supra, without the story → is to allow the imagination to processes as it will; not necessarily what is real.  The only commentary to the photo is that the Israelis are demolishing an agricultural pool _(nfi)_.  It tells us virtually nothing about the who in the Joint Civil Government ordered the demolition, what the purpose of the authorized demolition, or why the necessity.  Instead, there is merely the unsupported assumption made that it is illegal; without citation.
> 
> What I see is a policeman *(not a soldier)* and cameraman struggling over a bag of some sort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Who sez?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign (SeaMAC) launches a new month-long advertising campaign on public buses in San Francisco.
#BoycottIsrael


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign (SeaMAC) launches a new month-long advertising campaign on public buses in San Francisco.
> #BoycottIsrael



SF, isn't that one of those Democrat run cities,
where they drop dung on the streets?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle Mideast Awareness Campaign (SeaMAC) launches a new month-long advertising campaign on public buses in San Francisco.
> #BoycottIsrael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SF, isn't that one of those Democrat run cities,
> where they drop dung on the streets?
Click to expand...



SF is the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




  You should REALLY read what you post before you do it.    The claim is that Israelis and the Palestinians can't SHARE the West Bank peacefully . The Palestinians don't want Israel to have any part of the W. Bank; not even the Jewish Quarter


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it hypocritical?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is hypocritical in that you complain about "Jew-only settlements" but never seem to mention Arab-only settlements (despite the actual difference in law in those settlements).
> 
> Its hypocritical in that you demand equality between Jews and Arabs in Israel and Area C while supporting and insisting upon the maintenance of Jew-free zones in Areas A, B, C, and Gaza.
> 
> Its hypocritical because you ignore the reality that segregation of Jews and Arabs is largely both mutually agreeable and mutually sought after, and that there is a WAR on-going between these two peoples.
> 
> And its hypocritical because you never seem to acknowledge the illegal building by Arabs, often aided by the international community and NGOs  illegally interfering in Israel's sovereign rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a political program.  A political program would be a government transferring portions of its population to another territory in order to establish a claim.  (See Morocco and Western Sahara).  Israel and the Jewish people already have a claim.  They have, by far, the BEST claim.  By right and not on sufferance.
> 
> The settlement of Judea and Samaria by the Jewish people is not a political program -- its a program of asserting the historical, national and sovereign rights in the homeland of the Jewish people.  It is lead, largely, by the Jewish people themselves (though Israel, of course, must adapt and make response as appropriate).
> 
> Why would the Jewish people, as individuals and collectively, obligated to refrain from living in parts of their homeland?  Why is Israel obligated to actively prevent Jews from living in parts of their own homeland?  They aren't.  And she isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, there are, of course.  There are also encroachments from Areas A and B into Area C, which are permitted by Israel.  You just don't like to acknowledge them.  But I'd also suggest you consider how Arab Palestinians are likely to treat Arabs building a town with the explicit intention of annexation for Israel.
Click to expand...

What Arab only settlements?

And yes it is a political program.

Facts About Jewish Settlements in the West Bank
*History of the Settlement Movement*
Following Israel’s resounding victory over the Arab armies in the Six-Day War, strategic concerns led both of Israel’s major political parties - the Labor and Likud - to support and establish settlements at various times. The first settlements were built by Labor governments from 1968 to 1977, with the explicit objective to secure a Jewish majority in key strategic regions of the West Bank - such as the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem corridor - that were the scene of heavy fighting in several of the Arab-Israeli wars. In 1968, only five sparsely populated settlements existed beyond the Green Line.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli Occupation Court sentences child Abdel Jaber Yassin (15 years) from Nablus to 4 months in prison and fines 3,000 NIS


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ Coyote, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Yes!  _(With the reservations as noted.)_
> 
> I would agree that, in certain settlement areas _(certainly not all)_, there appears to exist a cultural "feud" _(prolonged hostility)_ between the Jewish Settlers and the localized Arab Palestinians.  This is not so different from the clan conflicts in the Northern Appalachian Mountains in America _(the Hatfield 'v' McCoy controversy being one of the most famous)_.  But just as the clan feuds of the Northern Appalachian Mountains were localized and not indicative of the overall relationship between the two general populations, the long persistence of clan-like confrontations has reached epic proportions, not unlike Northern Appalachian Mountain feuds _(ie Hatfield-McCoy)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then would you agree that Jewish stone throwers (as in the settlers stoning Palestinians) acting the same as the Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The very poor analysis _(by both sides and media observers seeking fame)_ of the adverse confrontations between the Israeli Settler 'v' Local Arab Palestinians in now almost indistinguishable from the reasons and political framework of the overarching nature of the generalized acts of terror between the major terrorist groups and government-sponsored terrorism directed against the Israeli civilian population.
> 
> *(EXEMPLARS)*
> 
> The feud between the Jewish Settlers and the localized Arab Palestinians is NOT strictly for the same purposes as that expressed by the Negotiation Affairs Department (PLO-NAD).  It is very similar _(in many cases)_ to the complexion behind the "Wyoming Range War" typified by the 'INVADER" notion between the new Farming Homesteaders and the Cattleman Barons of the Stock-Grower's Association.  Similarly, there was an atmosphere of corruptions, intimidation, and political conniving manipulators _(AKA: Robber Barons)_ that fleeced property owners, farmers, and ranchers for railroad right-of-ways; or that of the organized criminal claim jumpers for gold and silver mining; or that of the land grabbing of oil-rich land from the American Indians.   All these examples used an element of induced terror to accomplish the end result.  Why? *(RHETORICAL)*  Because of the overt nature of the activity.  And while everyone looked one the criminal takeover of Chicago and the Tammany Hall political corruption New York political machine were done in the open _(meaning everyone understood the illegal shadow of the activities)_, often maintaining control through intimidation and murder *(ie "terrorism")*.
> 
> Today, the criminal gangs of Los Angeles use terrorism to maintain their control over large expanses of the area and prevent enforcement and prosecution for their activities.  This is done through neighborhood intimidation through terrorism.  Again, this is not considered.  But you can go into any of the street gang territories _(of any color and ethnicity)_ and feel the impact.
> 
> The application of the description of terrorism has to be focused on the type, kind, and magnitude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I find the parallels interesting but I am not sure I understand. Palestinian civilians being stoned by Jewish settlers(to the extent soldiers must escort children to school and the Israeli government seems incapable of or lacking the will to stop it) ... how does that relate to what you said?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many Area C  settlements include Arabs?
> 
> How many settlements are Jewish only?
> 
> How many are Arab only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your hypocrisy is in calling out Jews for Jewish-only settlements while failing to call out Arabs for Arab-only settlements in Area C (and Areas A and B and Gaza and the entire ME).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is it hypocritical?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is hypocritical in that you complain about "Jew-only settlements" but never seem to mention Arab-only settlements (despite the actual difference in law in those settlements).
> 
> Its hypocritical in that you demand equality between Jews and Arabs in Israel and Area C while supporting and insisting upon the maintenance of Jew-free zones in Areas A, B, C, and Gaza.
> 
> Its hypocritical because you ignore the reality that segregation of Jews and Arabs is largely both mutually agreeable and mutually sought after, and that there is a WAR on-going between these two peoples.
> 
> And its hypocritical because you never seem to acknowledge the illegal building by Arabs, often aided by the international community and NGOs  illegally interfering in Israel's sovereign rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The settlement program is a POLITICAL program.  Not a random migration of peoples into new areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a political program.  A political program would be a government transferring portions of its population to another territory in order to establish a claim.  (See Morocco and Western Sahara).  Israel and the Jewish people already have a claim.  They have, by far, the BEST claim.  By right and not on sufferance.
> 
> The settlement of Judea and Samaria by the Jewish people is not a political program -- its a program of asserting the historical, national and sovereign rights in the homeland of the Jewish people.  It is lead, largely, by the Jewish people themselves (though Israel, of course, must adapt and make response as appropriate).
> 
> Why would the Jewish people, as individuals and collectively, obligated to refrain from living in parts of their homeland?  Why is Israel obligated to actively prevent Jews from living in parts of their own homeland?  They aren't.  And she isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So..why no Hill Top Arab settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Well, there are, of course.  There are also encroachments from Areas A and B into Area C, which are permitted by Israel.  *You just don't like to acknowledge them.  But I'd also suggest you consider how Arab Palestinians are likely to treat Arabs building a town with the explicit intention of annexation for Israel.
Click to expand...


I don’t acknowledge whatI don’t know about so, specifically what encroachments?

Why don’t Arabs get permits to build in area C?


----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli Occupation Court sentences child Abdel Jaber Yassin (15 years) from Nablus to 4 months in prison and fines 3,000 NIS



One of the big problems with the military justice system (as opposed to Israel’s civilian justice system) is in its treatment of juveniles.  Most Israeli juveniles are released to the custody of their families for the period between arrest and trial.  Not so with Palestinians under military justice, and the result is they are often pressured to plead guilty in exchange for the promise of a reduced sentence.

Minors in Jeopardy


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> What Arab only settlements?


They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it. 

In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> *History of the Settlement Movement*
> Following Israel’s resounding victory over the Arab armies in the Six-Day War, strategic concerns led both of Israel’s major political parties - the Labor and Likud - to support and establish settlements at various times. The first settlements were built by Labor governments from 1968 to 1977, with the explicit objective to secure a Jewish majority in key strategic regions of the West Bank - such as the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem corridor - that were the scene of heavy fighting in several of the Arab-Israeli wars. In 1968, only five sparsely populated settlements existed beyond the Green Line.



Okay, so let's talk.

First, about the Green Line.  The 1949 Armistice lines were an agreement between Jordan and Egypt (and others, but let's not complicate) and Israel.  The lines were nothing more than a mutual agreement to stop fighting.  Those lines no longer applied when Jordan and Egypt (and others, but let's not complicate) broke the Armistice Agreement with belligerent action against Israel.  And they certainly no longer applied when Jordan and Egypt made peace agreements with Israel.  The "Green Line" no longer exists, and hasn't for decades.  

Second, the Green Line has NOTHING. AT. ALL. TO. DO. WITH. THE. PALESTINIANS. 

Third, the REASON there was only a few sparsely populated places where Jews lived beyond the Green Line between 1948 and 1967 was because all the Jews either fled or were forcibly removed from the area. 


Next, let's talk about securing Jewish presence in "key strategic regions".  Yep.  That's political.  Securing the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem corridor -- political.  Securing the Jerusalem - Jericho corridor -- political.  Securing the Golan Heights -- political.  Absolutely.  Securing the Jordan Valley -- political.  These are security decisions. Places where there WAS heavy fighting or where future heavy fighting is anticipated. I'm not arguing that there are not political aspects to this.  

BUT I'm going to argue that the "settlement movement" -- that is -- the DRIVE for the Jewish people to settle their homeland is a movement and not an act of politics or an act of a government asserting sovereignty.  (I'd argue the same is true for the Arab Palestinians).


So where does that leave us?  Ultimately, there are two peoples who are (at least theoretically) vying for territory on which to establish their self-determination.  The final outcome of which territory belongs to which people has yet to be determined.  The idea that the Jewish people are obligated to actively sabotage their own self-determination in order to create Jew-free space for the Arab Palestinians to maybe, one-day, eventually, if they feel like it and get around to it instead of trying to just destroy Jews and Israel, is absolutely ludicrous.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
Click to expand...

Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *History of the Settlement Movement*
> Following Israel’s resounding victory over the Arab armies in the Six-Day War, strategic concerns led both of Israel’s major political parties - the Labor and Likud - to support and establish settlements at various times. The first settlements were built by Labor governments from 1968 to 1977, with the explicit objective to secure a Jewish majority in key strategic regions of the West Bank - such as the Tel Aviv-Jerusalem corridor - that were the scene of heavy fighting in several of the Arab-Israeli wars. In 1968, only five sparsely populated settlements existed beyond the Green Line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so let's talk.
> 
> First, about the Green Line.  The 1949 Armistice lines were an agreement between Jordan and Egypt (and others, but let's not complicate) and Israel.  The lines were nothing more than a mutual agreement to stop fighting.  Those lines no longer applied when Jordan and Egypt (and others, but let's not complicate) broke the Armistice Agreement with belligerent action against Israel.  And they certainly no longer applied when Jordan and Egypt made peace agreements with Israel.  The "Green Line" no longer exists, and hasn't for decades.
> 
> Second, the Green Line has NOTHING. AT. ALL. TO. DO. WITH. THE. PALESTINIANS.
> 
> Third, the REASON there was only a few sparsely populated places where Jews lived beyond the Green Line between 1948 and 1967 was because all the Jews either fled or were forcibly removed from the area.
> 
> 
> Next, let's talk about securing Jewish presence in "key strategic regions".  Yep.  That's political.  Securing the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem corridor -- political.  Securing the Jerusalem - Jericho corridor -- political.  Securing the Golan Heights -- political.  Absolutely.  Securing the Jordan Valley -- political.  These are security decisions. Places where there WAS heavy fighting or where future heavy fighting is anticipated. I'm not arguing that there are not political aspects to this.
> 
> *BUT I'm going to argue that the "settlement movement" -- that is -- the   for the Jewish people to settle their homeland is a movement and not an act of politics or an act of a government asserting sovereignty.  (I'd argue the same is true for the Arab Palestinians).*
> 
> 
> So where does that leave us?  Ultimately, there are two peoples who are (at least theoretically) vying for territory on which to establish their self-determination.  The final outcome of which territory belongs to which people has yet to be determined.  The idea that the Jewish people are obligated to actively sabotage their own self-determination in order to create Jew-free space for the Arab Palestinians to maybe, one-day, eventually, if they feel like it and get around to it instead of trying to just destroy Jews and Israel, is absolutely ludicrous.
Click to expand...


I am going to dispute that.  It is very much a political program designed to alter the regional demographics.  Jews were driven out in the war, so were Arabs.  Both Arabs and Jews have long established old communities.  Those are not settlements (or outposts).

“Facts on the ground”.

If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*


----------



## rylah

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
Click to expand...


You keep repeating the same question ad nauseam as if it wasn't already answered a dozen times.

First of all to permit something one has to request and present a planned project,
which Arab citizens of Israel don't.

Second the PA with the funding from the EU and the Arab League,
DOES establish Arab-only settlements in Area C, and everywhere they hold control.







But you don't ask why the PA doesn't permit Jews to build or even live in Ramallah,
you just take it for granted - therefore double standards.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep repeating the same question ad nauseam as if it wasn't already answered a dozen times.
> 
> First of all to permit something one has to request and present a planned project,
> which Arab citizens of Israel don't.
> 
> Second the PA with the funding from the EU and the Arab League,
> DOES establish Arab-only settlements in Area C, and everywhere they hold control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you don't ask why the PA doesn't permit Jews to build or even live in Ramallah,
> you just take it for granted - therefore double standards.
Click to expand...


Nor does she ask about the PLO Official Policy that if they ever do get E. Jerusalem Jews will not be permitted at the Western Wall
   They will probably be forbidden from their other Holy Sites just like they were before 1967 
  What ; no Comment? How typical


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep repeating the same question ad nauseam as if it wasn't already answered a dozen times.
> 
> First of all to permit something one has to request and present a planned project,
> which Arab citizens of Israel don't.
> 
> Second the PA with the funding from the EU and the Arab League,
> DOES establish Arab-only settlements in Area C, and everywhere they hold control.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you don't ask why the PA doesn't permit Jews to build or even live in Ramallah,
> you just take it for granted - therefore double standards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nor does she ask about the PLO Official Policy that if they ever do get E. Jerusalem Jews will not be permitted at the Western Wall
> They will probably be forbidden from their other Holy Sites just like they were before 1967
> What ; no Comment? How typical
Click to expand...


Exactly, she bashes Israel for not granting permits to its Arab citizens to build in Judea,
that they have not requested in the first place.

Yet has no problem that PA demands Jew-free land as precondition to "self determination", or that they have capital punishment for selling, leasing or even renting homes to Jews.

She figures..."blame the Jews"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jerusalem Archbishop Christians worldwide must reject israel's occupation of Palestine*

**


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


>


Israeli bullshit, of course. The PA only (almost) controls only 18% of the Bethlehem governorate. The rest of it is Israel fucking over the Christians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Palestinian Separation Wall in Bethlehem, Palestine*

**


----------



## Taz

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Palestinian Separation Wall in Bethlehem, Palestine*
> 
> **


There's a wall because the Pals are animals, but you knew that already, didn't you?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

Taz said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Palestinian Separation Wall in Bethlehem, Palestine*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> There's a wall because the Pals are animals, but you knew that already, didn't you?
Click to expand...


I don't know if you were answering sarcastically or sincerely, but that is actually true.  Suicide bombings against Israelis went down drastically since the wall was built.  Plus, the savage Arabs have tried to destroy Rachel's Tomb many times.  Wouldn't Christians try to protect a memorial to the Virgin Mary?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
Click to expand...

Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
Click to expand...


Because Israeli Arabs have quite comfortable lives in Israel proper.  Just ask Mohammed Zoabi.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








What is Tlaib talking about, her people demand ANOTHER Jew-free state
as a precondition for "self-determination", then she is the one whining about segregation??

Frigging hypocrites.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The PA only (almost) controls only 18% of the Bethlehem governorate. The rest of it is Israel fucking over the Christians.
Click to expand...



Or maybe you Jihadi filth are just incapable of saying truth...

Israel is in fact the only country in the entire middle east
where the Christian population is actually growing.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is Tlaib talking about, her people demand ANOTHER Jew-free state
> as a precondition for "self-determination", then she is the one whining about segregation??
> 
> Frigging hypocrites.
Click to expand...



  Tinmore NEVER has anything to say about it


  Or this; What he is emotionally and intellectually incapable of discussing is why if the Palestinians want to promote " peace" why this official stance and why Israel should accept it 

PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Jerusalem Archbishop Christians worldwide must reject israel's occupation of Palestine*
> 
> **




  Bethlehem also has Religious meaning for the JEWISH People even though it is not acknowledged.  Deal with it    Palestinians aren't going anywhere?  Neither are the Jewish people; They have as much Right as the Christians and Palestinians.
  Ask your New Best Friend; Rep. Tliab 


For Jews, Bethlehem (_Bet Lechem_) is the burial place of the matriarch Rachel and the birthplace of King David. Additionally, Samuel anointed David as king of Israel in Bethlehem (I Sam. 16:1-13) and David's ancestors - Ruth and Boaz - were married in Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



  This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about   

Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>



She is an embarrassment to most Democrats, living proof that Pelosi's identity politics is destroying the Party.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


It is an effort to make Palestinians grow up and take responsibility for their actions.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Something to do with their "warm feelings about the Holocaust"...?
Or maybe just "some people doing something"?

Can't be that they're just cretins...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



When you pretend to be talking about smart stuff,
but can't even make up a fake quote to make sense.



Can you please go more stupid?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why isn't she working to help her constituents in Michigan instead of obsessing over Israel?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why isn't she working to help her constituents in Michigan instead of obsessing over Israel?
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about
> 
> Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.
Click to expand...






What Palestinians Want — in Their Own Words — When They Say ‘From the River to the Sea’


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
Click to expand...


If memory serves there are 241 Arab-only settlements in Area C.  In addition, there are several Arab-only settlements in Area C which result from a spilling over from Areas A and B. 

Building permits for ALL Israeli citizens are granted or not granted on the basis of meeting guidelines for site ownership, zoning, planning, and safety regulations.  No building permits are issued (or not issued) based on race, ethnicity, religion or gender.  In fact, it is illegal to even gather that information on building permit applications and therefore NO ONE KNOWS the number of building permits issued to Arabs vs. Jews. 

So, when you ask, "Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements", you are either demonstrating your lack of knowledge about this subject, or, as has been suggested, are throwing out soundbytes in order to demonize Jews and Israel. 

If you are interested in having a discussion, factually incorrect and demonizing statements such as the one above should be dropped in favor of a solid understanding of the entirety of the reality on the ground. 

When discussing communities in Area C, we need to consider:


Citizens of Palestine living in numerous small villages scattered throughout Area C.
Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens moving into Area C.
Arab and Jewish Israeli citizen squatters and outposts.
Expanding existing Arab and Jewish settlements.
Building in Jerusalem. 
Security needs.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> I am going to dispute that.  It is very much a political program designed to alter the regional demographics.



Yes, the Jewish people returning to their homeland is very much a drive by the Jewish people, to, you know, resettle their homeland and establish the State of Israel.  It very much intended to change the demographics of the region.  

It is not motivated by a political drive for territory but as the drive of a people to re-constitute their homeland.  Contrast that with the Morocco government asserting her claim to Western Sahara by deliberately transferring hundreds of thousands of Moroccans into Western Sahara prior to a referendum vote.

What I'm arguing here is the difference in motivation and who is driving it.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*



You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The PA only (almost) controls only 18% of the Bethlehem governorate. The rest of it is Israel fucking over the Christians.
Click to expand...



The PA controls 18% of the territory, but 88% of the Arab population of Bethlehem reside in Areas A and B, under PA control.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, et al,



Coyote said:


> I find the parallels interesting but I am not sure I understand. Palestinian civilians being stoned by Jewish settlers(to the extent soldiers must escort children to school and the Israeli government seems incapable of or lacking the will to stop it) ... how does that relate to what you said?


*(COMMENT)*

Each of the Exemplars has some of the same characteristics as you observed _(and question)_ in the "Israeli Settler 'v' Local Arab Palestinians."  

Whether you examine the victim aspect of the • Farming Homesteaders 'v' Cattleman Barons of the Stock-Grower's Association • the property owners, farmers, and ranchers "v" Railroad Tycoons and right-of-ways • or the • Hatfields 'v' McCoys • there will be a wide spectrum of those injured and dead in every category _(men, women and children)_.  Remember, there were entire families murdered in each exemplar.   Your example of protection through escort for children differs only in the time differential and traffic pattern.  Each exemplar had the same level of threat to the associated victim spectrum.  

*(CONSIDERATION)*

It is not unusual for such feuds to immerge and last several generations.  There is no question that the period of conflict has been lengthy.  But _(as an example)_ the American Colonial Indian Wars through to engagement on the Lakota Pine Ridge Indian Reservation → Wounded Knee → _(and beyond __≈ 1622 • ≈ 1890)_ lasted over two and half centuries; and half of the casualties were women and children.  




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et  al,_



P F Tinmore said:


> 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.


*(COMMENT)*

So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first.  This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world.  In other places a refugee has to be an actual refugee.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,

Not a criticism, but just a clarification._

The UNRWA CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ IS NOT LAW.  It is an Administrative Instruction on the eligibility for "services."



			
				United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said:
			
		

> {*LINK:*  Who we are.}
> UNRWA services are available to all those living in its areas of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are* eligible for UNRWA services*.





toomuchtime_ said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first.  This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world.  In other places, a refugee has to be an actual refugee.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The UNRWA _(United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)_ is a non-governmental organization (NGO); with a UN General Assembly mandate extending _(currently)_ until 30 June 2020 *(NOT → "until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed")*.  The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services.  It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."

The UNRWA was established by A/RES/302 (IV) • 8 December 1949; which _Directs_ the UNRWA to consult with the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine in the best interests of their respective tasks, with particular reference to paragraph 11 of A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948...

*


			
				UNHCR said:
			
		


			"Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.
		
Click to expand...

*


			
				UNHCR said:
			
		

> They often have had to flee with little more than the clothes on their back, leaving behind homes, possessions, jobs and loved ones.
> 
> Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The *1951 Refugee Convention* is a *key legal document** and defines a refugee as*:"
> 
> “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”​*SOURCE:* *UNHCR Web Site: What is a refugee*.


While there is an international convention (Law) that defines a refugee, there is NO convention that distinguishes a separate definition for "Palestinian Refugees."

The distinction is that "Palestinian Refugees" cannot draw services from both the UNHCR _(United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees)_ and the UNRWA at the same time.  If the UNRWA should ever close its operations, the UNHCR would pick-up that obligation.  But the UNHCR would not be obligated to carry-on the implementation of CERI.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,
> 
> Not a criticism, but just a clarification._
> 
> The UNRWA CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ IS NOT LAW.  It is an Administrative Instruction on the eligibility for "services."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {*LINK:*  Who we are.}
> UNRWA services are available to all those living in its areas of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are* eligible for UNRWA services*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first.  This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world.  In other places, a refugee has to be an actual refugee.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNRWA _(United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)_ is a non-governmental organization (NGO); with a UN General Assembly mandate extending _(currently)_ until 30 June 2020 *(NOT → "until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed")*.  The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services.  It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."
> 
> The UNRWA was established by A/RES/302 (IV) • 8 December 1949; which _Directs_ the UNRWA to consult with the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine in the best interests of their respective tasks, with particular reference to paragraph 11 of A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> UNHCR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> UNHCR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They often have had to flee with little more than the clothes on their back, leaving behind homes, possessions, jobs and loved ones.
> 
> Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The *1951 Refugee Convention* is a *key legal document** and defines a refugee as*:"
> 
> “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”​*SOURCE:* *UNHCR Web Site: What is a refugee*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While there is an international convention (Law) that defines a refugee, there is NO convention that distinguishes a separate definition for "Palestinian Refugees."
> 
> The distinction is that "Palestinian Refugees" cannot draw services from both the UNHCR _(United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees)_ and the UNRWA at the same time.  If the UNRWA should ever close its operations, the UNHCR would pick-up that obligation.  But the UNHCR would not be obligated to carry-on the implementation of CERI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.  Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.  Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.


----------



## Coyote

toomuchtime_ said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
Click to expand...


You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
Click to expand...

lol  It means you.  In every situation all you see is race.  A racist is someone who sees everything in terms of race.  Clearly, that is you.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_

I've seen this before.



toomuchtime_ said:


> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.  

The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.



toomuchtime_ said:


> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.



Yes, there is some room to argue about this...

◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?

◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?

◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​


toomuchtime_ said:


> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).


For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law. ​
Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:

◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.

◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:

✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;

✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place. 

✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.

✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.

✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.

DID I miss anything?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  "toomuchtime_,

I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.



toomuchtime_ said:


> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.





Coyote said:


> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.


*(COMMENT)*

Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."

The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.


----------



## toomuchtime_

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

A racist is someone who sees things in terms of race to the exclusion of other considerations such as the circumstances in which an action takes place, and that is what Coyote does in virtually every post.  racism is not just about hate; it is about being unable to process information about a situation without reference to race.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If memory serves there are 241 Arab-only settlements in Area C.  In addition, there are several Arab-only settlements in Area C which result from a spilling over from Areas A and B.
Click to expand...


"Settlements" as in new communities from Arab Israelis  moving into Area C to build?  Or, existing villages that predated Israel's seizure of the area?  What are some of the names of these Arab only "settlements"?

Settlements are pretty clearly defined and they are not defined as pre-existing habitations.  For example, Jews moving back into towns they had inhabited prior to the war would not be "settlements".  I see a constant stretching of the definition "settlements" in order to justify what is essentially a political program to deliberately alter regional demographics.

Area_C_(West_Bank)
Area C, excluding East Jerusalem, is home to 385,900 Israeli settlers[3] and approximately 300,000 Palestinians.[4] According to the Norwegian Refugee Council, *Israeli planning and zoning regimes in Area C all but prohibit Palestinian construction in almost 70 percent this zone, and render the obtaining of permits in the remaining 30 percent nearly impossible*.[26]

2007 
Palestine Today
A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.* T

2019
PM said to float plan for Palestinian building permits in West Bank’s Area C
Palestinians are rarely granted building permits in Area C and recent years have seen *the total number of approvals remain in the single digits, *compared to the thousands green-lighted for Israeli settlers.




> Building permits for ALL Israeli citizens are granted or not granted on the basis of meeting guidelines for site ownership, zoning, planning, and safety regulations.  No building permits are issued (or not issued) based on race, ethnicity, religion or gender.  In fact, it is illegal to even gather that information on building permit applications and therefore NO ONE KNOWS the number of building permits issued to Arabs vs. Jews.



I''m going to dispute that claim because it defies logic when 94% of the permits of one ethnicity are rejected - 94%.  It might be illegal - technically - but that does not mean it isn't done.  In one of my earlier posts here I linked to one article where the local municipal government subsidized and supported illegal settlement building in their municipality for example.  And these sorts of activities are supported by a significant faction of Israel's political leadership.  I strongly suspect that they DO know who they are issuing the permits to - you don't need that data specified, just look at the names, the organization, even the place they are from.  So yes, it might be illegal but what is it worth if it is not enforced?



> So, when you ask, "Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements", you are either demonstrating your lack of knowledge about this subject, or, as has been suggested, are throwing out soundbytes in order to demonize Jews and Israel.



You yourself said you one of your criticisms of Israel is that it should issue more permits to Arabs.  Have you changed your mind about that and now label it "demonizing Jews and Israel"?

As far as "demonstrating a lack of knowledge" - I provide sources to back my claims.  Is that demonizing?



> If you are interested in having a discussion, factually incorrect and demonizing statements such as the one above should be dropped in favor of a solid understanding of the entirety of the reality on the ground.



There is nothing factually incorrect - I back up my statements.



> When discussing communities in Area C, we need to consider:
> 
> 
> Citizens of Palestine living in numerous small villages scattered throughout Area C.
> Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens moving into Area C.
> Arab and Jewish Israeli citizen squatters and outposts.
> Expanding existing Arab and Jewish settlements.
> Building in Jerusalem.
> Security needs.



I agree and disagree.

I agree with what you are saying in your bullet points BUT - I disagree with your attempt to stretch the definition of settlements to the point of ridiculous.  There are old and established communities - both Jewish and Arab.  Those are not settlements.  

New communities.


----------



## Coyote

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.


----------



## Rigby5

toomuchtime_ said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
Click to expand...



Totally wrong.
Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.

Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to dispute that.  It is very much a political program designed to alter the regional demographics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Jewish people returning to their homeland is very much a drive by the Jewish people, to, you know, resettle their homeland and establish the State of Israel.  It very much intended to change the demographics of the region.
> 
> It is not motivated by a political drive for territory but as the drive of a people to re-constitute their homeland.  Contrast that with the Morocco government asserting her claim to Western Sahara by deliberately transferring hundreds of thousands of Moroccans into Western Sahara prior to a referendum vote.
> 
> What I'm arguing here is the difference in motivation and who is driving it.
Click to expand...


You can have more than one motivation.  The motivation of those creating settlements...and the motivation of the political entities encouraging and providing financial and protective support for them.  I would argue that the latter is absolutely designed as a political drive for territory through altering the demographics and the grossly unequal approval of permits for the other group of native people who reside there and make up a portion of Israel's citizenry.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
Click to expand...


The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.

Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but that is nonsense.
If one is hereditarily Jewish, then one is Arab by race.
The word "Semitic" actually means one who speaks a native Arab language.
Israel is about the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world, where 6 million immigrant Jews rule over the 12 million Arab Muslim natives.
Even the Christians consider Israeli Zionists to be incredibly bigoted and discriminatory.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
Click to expand...


I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is nonsense.
> If one is hereditarily Jewish, then one is Arab by race.
> The word "Semitic" actually means one who speaks a native Arab language.
> *Israel is about the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world, *where 6 million immigrant Jews rule over the 12 million Arab Muslim natives.
> Even the Christians consider Israeli Zionists to be incredibly bigoted and discriminatory.
Click to expand...


Have you ever heard of Saudi Arabia?

The rest is just standard antisemitic gobbledygook.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
Click to expand...


These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
{...
The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.

Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.

Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.

During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.

This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.

For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
...}


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is nonsense.
> If one is hereditarily Jewish, then one is Arab by race.
> The word "Semitic" actually means one who speaks a native Arab language.
> *Israel is about the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world, *where 6 million immigrant Jews rule over the 12 million Arab Muslim natives.
> Even the Christians consider Israeli Zionists to be incredibly bigoted and discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard of Saudi Arabia?
> 
> The rest is just standard antisemitic gobbledygook.
Click to expand...


What does Saudi Arabia have to do with anything?
Saudi Arabia is Arab and Moslem, but the fact the Hebrew tribes went to Medina in Saudi Arabia after the Romans kicked them out of Palestine, has little to do with modern Jews or Palestine?


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
> They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
> If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> {...
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.
> 
> This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.
> 
> For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
> ...}
Click to expand...


When it comes to those documents and period of history, I usually defer to people like RoccoR who have a more extensive knowledge than I.

But regardless...it's really irrelevant today.  It does not matter at all except to those who are trying to make arguments justifying the rights to and control of one side or the other to larger or smaller areas of territory.

 It's not going to alter the fact of the existence of a sovereign nation that is established has itself as a nation for almost 75 years now.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again?  All Israelis have the same rights.  Were you not so  profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is nonsense.
> If one is hereditarily Jewish, then one is Arab by race.
> The word "Semitic" actually means one who speaks a native Arab language.
> *Israel is about the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world, *where 6 million immigrant Jews rule over the 12 million Arab Muslim natives.
> Even the Christians consider Israeli Zionists to be incredibly bigoted and discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard of Saudi Arabia?
> 
> The rest is just standard antisemitic gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Saudi Arabia have to do with anything?
> Saudi Arabia is Arab and Moslem, but the fact the Hebrew tribes went to Medina in Saudi Arabia after the Romans kicked them out of Palestine, has little to do with modern Jews or Palestine?
Click to expand...


*...the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world,*


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Arab only settlements?
> 
> 
> 
> They are ALL Arab-only settlements.  In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only.  The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.
> 
> In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Area C.  The settlement program.  The one requiring permits.  The sponsored and encouraged by the government.  Why no Arab settlements?  Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If memory serves there are 241 Arab-only settlements in Area C.  In addition, there are several Arab-only settlements in Area C which result from a spilling over from Areas A and B.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Settlements" as in new communities from Arab Israelis  moving into Area C to build?  Or, existing villages that predated Israel's seizure of the area?  What are some of the names of these Arab only "settlements"?
> 
> Settlements are pretty clearly defined and they are not defined as pre-existing habitations.  For example, Jews moving back into towns they had inhabited prior to the war would not be "settlements".  I see a constant stretching of the definition "settlements" in order to justify what is essentially a political program to deliberately alter regional demographics.
> 
> Area_C_(West_Bank)
> Area C, excluding East Jerusalem, is home to 385,900 Israeli settlers[3] and approximately 300,000 Palestinians.[4] According to the Norwegian Refugee Council, *Israeli planning and zoning regimes in Area C all but prohibit Palestinian construction in almost 70 percent this zone, and render the obtaining of permits in the remaining 30 percent nearly impossible*.[26]
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.* T
> 
> 2019
> PM said to float plan for Palestinian building permits in West Bank’s Area C
> Palestinians are rarely granted building permits in Area C and recent years have seen *the total number of approvals remain in the single digits, *compared to the thousands green-lighted for Israeli settlers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Building permits for ALL Israeli citizens are granted or not granted on the basis of meeting guidelines for site ownership, zoning, planning, and safety regulations.  No building permits are issued (or not issued) based on race, ethnicity, religion or gender.  In fact, it is illegal to even gather that information on building permit applications and therefore NO ONE KNOWS the number of building permits issued to Arabs vs. Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I''m going to dispute that claim because it defies logic when 94% of the permits of one ethnicity are rejected - 94%.  It might be illegal - technically - but that does not mean it isn't done.  In one of my earlier posts here I linked to one article where the local municipal government subsidized and supported illegal settlement building in their municipality for example.  And these sorts of activities are supported by a significant faction of Israel's political leadership.  I strongly suspect that they DO know who they are issuing the permits to - you don't need that data specified, just look at the names, the organization, even the place they are from.  So yes, it might be illegal but what is it worth if it is not enforced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when you ask, "Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements", you are either demonstrating your lack of knowledge about this subject, or, as has been suggested, are throwing out soundbytes in order to demonize Jews and Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You yourself said you one of your criticisms of Israel is that it should issue more permits to Arabs.  Have you changed your mind about that and now label it "demonizing Jews and Israel"?
> 
> As far as "demonstrating a lack of knowledge" - I provide sources to back my claims.  Is that demonizing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are interested in having a discussion, factually incorrect and demonizing statements such as the one above should be dropped in favor of a solid understanding of the entirety of the reality on the ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is nothing factually incorrect - I back up my statements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When discussing communities in Area C, we need to consider:
> 
> 
> Citizens of Palestine living in numerous small villages scattered throughout Area C.
> Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens moving into Area C.
> Arab and Jewish Israeli citizen squatters and outposts.
> Expanding existing Arab and Jewish settlements.
> Building in Jerusalem.
> Security needs.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree and disagree.
> 
> I agree with what you are saying in your bullet points BUT - I disagree with your attempt to stretch the definition of settlements to the point of ridiculous.  There are old and established communities - both Jewish and Arab.  Those are not settlements.
> 
> New communities.
Click to expand...

A settlement is simply an Israeli community in area C over which Israel has not yet asserted sovereignty.  By treaty, Israel has civil authority over area C and the PA has civil authority over areas A and B.  Only rarely does Israel, the legitimate civil authority over area C, allow Palestinians to build in area C and the PA never allows Israel to build in areas A or B.  When the PA invites Israel to begin building settlements in area A and B, perhaps you will have some rational basis for griping about the lack of Palestinian settlements in area C.  However, since there is no political entity among the Palestinians that ca credibly offer peace to Israel, there is no likelihood that these divisions will change in the foreseeable future; area C will remain under Israeli civil authority and A and B will remain under Palestinian civil authority unless, of course, the PA launches another intifada.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
Click to expand...



I am not finding that link.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Rigby5 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
Click to expand...

I see.  So  you are saying Europeans should decide how the people in the region should live except when it might benefit Jews.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
Click to expand...


Post 
#13566


----------



## Shusha

A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
> They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
> If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> {...
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.
> 
> This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.
> 
> For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
> ...}
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it comes to those documents and period of history, I usually defer to people like RoccoR who have a more extensive knowledge than I.
> 
> But regardless...it's really irrelevant today.  It does not matter at all except to those who are trying to make arguments justifying the rights to and control of one side or the other to larger or smaller areas of territory.
> 
> It's not going to alter the fact of the existence of a sovereign nation that is established has itself as a nation for almost 75 years now.
Click to expand...



That makes no sense because first of all, Israel exists by virtue of the latest US weapons, like bombers, tanks, fighter planes, etc., as well as over $5 billion a year in foreign aid.  And second it makes no sense because a well armed and vicious minority that takes over by force is evil and not to be allowed.  A sovereign nation has to support the right of the indigenous natives, not recent invaders.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
Click to expand...



This



> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*



Leads to another page on this thread....?


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "toomuchtime_,
> 
> I don't believe that "Coyote" is racist.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Having an honest opinion to the contrary is NOT the same as being "racist."
> 
> The Israelis are many more times diverse _(in terms of race)_ than any of the adjacent Arab League States.  I don't beleive "Coyote" forms or holds her opinion on the basis of some racist foundation.  I don't see any evidence to support that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you R, and I agree (and have many times said) that Israel is very diverse and a pluralistic nation of people from all over the world which gives it a unique perspective in that part of the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that is nonsense.
> If one is hereditarily Jewish, then one is Arab by race.
> The word "Semitic" actually means one who speaks a native Arab language.
> *Israel is about the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world, *where 6 million immigrant Jews rule over the 12 million Arab Muslim natives.
> Even the Christians consider Israeli Zionists to be incredibly bigoted and discriminatory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard of Saudi Arabia?
> 
> The rest is just standard antisemitic gobbledygook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does Saudi Arabia have to do with anything?
> Saudi Arabia is Arab and Moslem, but the fact the Hebrew tribes went to Medina in Saudi Arabia after the Romans kicked them out of Palestine, has little to do with modern Jews or Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *...the single most restrictive and unpluralistic nation in the world,*
Click to expand...


What other country would have the gall to call itself a nation of a religion that is only loosely held by a recent immigrant minority?
There is no other nation in the world except the vatican, that claims to be dedicated to a single religion.
And clearly no nation claiming one religion should ever be allowed, much less one where the religion is not even the majority.


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.



A settlement is a very bad thing when it is built on land stolen from indigenous natives, and the indigenous natives are excluded from the land they legally owned and had paid for.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.



No, this is not a matter of "correcting" - it's a matter of "redefining" something to alter its meaning.

Whether an Israeli settlement is a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view.  In and of itself - it's neither.

It's Jewish people spreading out into a land their ancestors had occupied thousands of years ago and creating new communities.

It's a political program subsidized by the government,  designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved.

It is a program that de-facto gives preferential treatment to one ethnic group in establishing these communities through it's permitting process.


All are accurate.  Trying to redefine it as the generic term "settlement is a place where people lives" ignores the complexity of what it really is and means to the different people involved.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> You yourself said you one of your criticisms of Israel is that it should issue more permits to Arabs.  Have you changed your mind about that and now label it "demonizing Jews and Israel"?



Yes.  But you neglected to remember and post WHY.  I said that Israel should just annex all the parts of Area C she intends to keep.  All the Palestinians willing to would become Israeli citizens and would get ALL THE GOODIES.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not political, *why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
Click to expand...


hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!

Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
Click to expand...



Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?  

Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've done so in another post - majority - VAST majority - are denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
Click to expand...


Seriously yes.

I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.

If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is not a matter of "correcting" - it's a matter of "redefining" something to alter its meaning.
> 
> Whether an Israeli settlement is a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view.  In and of itself - it's neither.
> 
> It's Jewish people spreading out into a land their ancestors had occupied thousands of years ago and creating new communities.
> 
> It's a political program subsidized by the government,  designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved.
> 
> It is a program that de-facto gives preferential treatment to one ethnic group in establishing these communities through it's permitting process.
> 
> 
> All are accurate.  Trying to redefine it as the generic term "settlement is a place where people lives" ignores the complexity of what it really is and means to the different people involved.
Click to expand...

"It's a political program subsidized by the government, designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved."

You've been talking to the Tooth Fairy again, haven't you?  Resolved how?  There is no rational basis for believing any agreement will be found that will give area C to the PA or Hamas so there is no rational basis for you to complain about Israeli settlements in area C.  The issue has been settled and since that is the case, there is rational basis for you to complain about Israel asserting sovereignty over its communities in are C.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not finding that link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously yes.
> 
> I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.
> 
> If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.
Click to expand...


The news article from 2019 makes the same claim that you do, but again provides nothing to back it up.  It does seem like you are looking for articles which match your pre-conceived notions, rather than actually exploring the topic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about
> 
> Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.
Click to expand...

Dr. Shibley Telhami, who conducted the University of Maryland poll, wrote Wednesday that rising support for a one-state solution is likely a result of despair from the possibility of implementing a two-state solution. “When one considers that many Israelis and Palestinians, as well as many Middle East experts, already believe that a two-state solution is no longer possible, especially given the large expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, it’s not hard to see why more people would be drawn to a one-state solution,” he wrote.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is not a matter of "correcting" - it's a matter of "redefining" something to alter its meaning.
> 
> Whether an Israeli settlement is a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view.  In and of itself - it's neither.
> 
> It's Jewish people spreading out into a land their ancestors had occupied thousands of years ago and creating new communities.
> 
> It's a political program subsidized by the government,  designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved.
> 
> It is a program that de-facto gives preferential treatment to one ethnic group in establishing these communities through it's permitting process.
> 
> 
> All are accurate.  Trying to redefine it as the generic term "settlement is a place where people lives" ignores the complexity of what it really is and means to the different people involved.
Click to expand...


No, Israel is not the lands of the ancestors of modern Jews.
The Hebrew tribes did not invade until around 1000 BC, were never the majority, and were defeated and made to leave constantly.
The Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc. kicked them back out.
And Jews are so divorced from the Mideast, that they do not at all belong there.


----------



## Coyote

Settlement Report: August 2, 2019 - Foundation for Middle East Peace

715 permits for Palestinian units.

and...in addition to the *6,000 units approved this week*, during a campaign stop at the Efrat settlement on July 31st, Netanyahu promised to advance plans for *8,250 new housing units* in Efrat. Netanyahu also reiterated his (now common) refrain that he will not allow a single settler to be removed.

Another source for same: PM said to float plan for Palestinian building permits in West Bank’s Area C


Part of the problem for the Palestinians needing these permits is that they can not expand legally, and are becoming too densely populated.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is not a matter of "correcting" - it's a matter of "redefining" something to alter its meaning.
> 
> Whether an Israeli settlement is a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view.  In and of itself - it's neither.
> 
> It's Jewish people spreading out into a land their ancestors had occupied thousands of years ago and creating new communities.
> 
> It's a political program subsidized by the government,  designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved.
> 
> It is a program that de-facto gives preferential treatment to one ethnic group in establishing these communities through it's permitting process.
> 
> 
> All are accurate.  Trying to redefine it as the generic term "settlement is a place where people lives" ignores the complexity of what it really is and means to the different people involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, Israel is not the lands of the ancestors of modern Jews.
> The Hebrew tribes did not invade until around 1000 BC, were never the majority, and were defeated and made to leave constantly.
> The Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc. kicked them back out.
> And Jews are so divorced from the Mideast, that they do not at all belong there.
Click to expand...


You are not too familiar with the archaeological record are you?


----------



## Rigby5

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You yourself said you one of your criticisms of Israel is that it should issue more permits to Arabs.  Have you changed your mind about that and now label it "demonizing Jews and Israel"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  But you neglected to remember and post WHY.  I said that Israel should just annex all the parts of Area C she intends to keep.  All the Palestinians willing to would become Israeli citizens and would get ALL THE GOODIES.
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
Israeli Arabs still get nothing, and can have everything taken away.
They can not even use the same schools, hospitals, or roads even.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course. The PA only (almost) controls only 18% of the Bethlehem governorate. The rest of it is Israel fucking over the Christians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The PA controls 18% of the territory, but 88% of the Arab population of Bethlehem reside in Areas A and B, under PA control.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel is moving all Palestinians into bantustans.


----------



## Rigby5

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "settlement" is simply a place where people live.  The twisting of the term into a "bad thing that Jews do" should be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is not a matter of "correcting" - it's a matter of "redefining" something to alter its meaning.
> 
> Whether an Israeli settlement is a good thing or bad thing depends on your point of view.  In and of itself - it's neither.
> 
> It's Jewish people spreading out into a land their ancestors had occupied thousands of years ago and creating new communities.
> 
> It's a political program subsidized by the government,  designed to alter the ethnic demographics of an area, that is in dispute, in order to leverage that nation's control of it should the dispute ever be resolved.
> 
> It is a program that de-facto gives preferential treatment to one ethnic group in establishing these communities through it's permitting process.
> 
> 
> All are accurate.  Trying to redefine it as the generic term "settlement is a place where people lives" ignores the complexity of what it really is and means to the different people involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, Israel is not the lands of the ancestors of modern Jews.
> The Hebrew tribes did not invade until around 1000 BC, were never the majority, and were defeated and made to leave constantly.
> The Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc. kicked them back out.
> And Jews are so divorced from the Mideast, that they do not at all belong there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not too familiar with the archaeological record are you?
Click to expand...


There is absolutely no historical record of Jews in Palestine before 1000 BC.
before the 400 years in Egypt, they did not come from or live in the Land of Canaan.
The Canaanites did.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post
> #13566
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2007
> Palestine Today
> A UN agency said that Israel *has denied 94 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in West Bank areas under its full control.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously yes.
> 
> I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.
> 
> If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The news article from 2019 makes the same claim that you do, but again provides nothing to back it up.  It does seem like you are looking for articles which match your pre-conceived notions, rather than actually exploring the topic.
Click to expand...


Do a google search for "Palestinian building permits" or "Israeli building permits" - a relatively neutral term.  What comes up - after you weed out the obvious crap?


----------



## Shusha

So let's clear up a few things...

Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.

I don't think so.

What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)

What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?

What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?

What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?

Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?

Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?

Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?

Are the buildings safe?  

Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?



I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> Leads to another page on this thread....?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously yes.
> 
> I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.
> 
> If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The news article from 2019 makes the same claim that you do, but again provides nothing to back it up.  It does seem like you are looking for articles which match your pre-conceived notions, rather than actually exploring the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do a google search for "Palestinian building permits" or "Israeli building permits" - a relatively neutral term.  What comes up - after you weed out the obvious crap?
Click to expand...



Oh, no worries, I have read scads of reports.  I dive pretty deeply into subjects I'm interested in.


----------



## Coyote

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You yourself said you one of your criticisms of Israel is that it should issue more permits to Arabs.  Have you changed your mind about that and now label it "demonizing Jews and Israel"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  But you neglected to remember and post WHY.  I said that Israel should just annex all the parts of Area C she intends to keep.  All the Palestinians willing to would become Israeli citizens and would get ALL THE GOODIES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> Israeli Arabs still get nothing, and can have everything taken away.
> They can not even use the same schools, hospitals, or roads even.
Click to expand...


Sigh...

Not true.

Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel, and no they can not have everything taken away.  They are citizens.  Yes they can use the same school and hospitals though there are inequities in funding etc. and there is discrimination - that discrimination is not legal.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm...weird...wrong link. Not sure how I got that one!
> 
> Here: UN: Israel has denied 94% of requests for West Bank building permits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously yes.
> 
> I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.
> 
> If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The news article from 2019 makes the same claim that you do, but again provides nothing to back it up.  It does seem like you are looking for articles which match your pre-conceived notions, rather than actually exploring the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do a google search for "Palestinian building permits" or "Israeli building permits" - a relatively neutral term.  What comes up - after you weed out the obvious crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no worries, I have read scads of reports.  I dive pretty deeply into subjects I'm interested in.
Click to expand...


Then link to some of them.  Provide sources.  You ask me for them.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> So let's clear up a few things...
> 
> Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?
> 
> What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?
> 
> What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?
> 
> Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?
> 
> Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?
> 
> Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?
> 
> Are the buildings safe?
> 
> Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?
> 
> 
> 
> I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.



I agree there are a whole host of reasons but that doesn't rule out discrimination as one of those reasons.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Another source for same: PM said to float plan for Palestinian building permits in West Bank’s Area C



No, its the same Times of Israel story.


----------



## Coyote

I'm heading off to bed now - it's after 11pm.  Too late for a work night.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another source for same: PM said to float plan for Palestinian building permits in West Bank’s Area C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, its the same Times of Israel story.
Click to expand...


I meant the same as the link above it in that post - two saying the same thing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,
> 
> Not a criticism, but just a clarification._
> 
> The UNRWA CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ IS NOT LAW.  It is an Administrative Instruction on the eligibility for "services."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {*LINK:*  Who we are.}
> UNRWA services are available to all those living in its areas of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are* eligible for UNRWA services*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first.  This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world.  In other places, a refugee has to be an actual refugee.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The UNRWA _(United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East)_ is a non-governmental organization (NGO); with a UN General Assembly mandate extending _(currently)_ until 30 June 2020 *(NOT → "until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed")*.  The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services.  It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."
> 
> The UNRWA was established by A/RES/302 (IV) • 8 December 1949; which _Directs_ the UNRWA to consult with the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine in the best interests of their respective tasks, with particular reference to paragraph 11 of A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> UNHCR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> UNHCR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They often have had to flee with little more than the clothes on their back, leaving behind homes, possessions, jobs and loved ones.
> 
> Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The *1951 Refugee Convention* is a *key legal document** and defines a refugee as*:"
> 
> “someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”​*SOURCE:* *UNHCR Web Site: What is a refugee*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While there is an international convention (Law) that defines a refugee, there is NO convention that distinguishes a separate definition for "Palestinian Refugees."
> 
> The distinction is that "Palestinian Refugees" cannot draw services from both the UNHCR _(United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees)_ and the UNRWA at the same time.  If the UNRWA should ever close its operations, the UNHCR would pick-up that obligation.  But the UNHCR would not be obligated to carry-on the implementation of CERI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services. It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."


That's what I have been saying.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? That's a three paragraph article from more than ten years ago.  Did you do any looking into what the report actually says?  Or what is happening now?
> 
> Or did you just google something that you think must be true because it seems to support your pre-conceived notions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously yes.
> 
> I quoted that one from 2007 (and the date was NOTED above it) and then one from 2019 that said essentially the same thing. IE not a lot had changed.  But I guess you ignored that in your haste to claim it wrong.
> 
> If you dispute what it says - then provide evidence that it is wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The news article from 2019 makes the same claim that you do, but again provides nothing to back it up.  It does seem like you are looking for articles which match your pre-conceived notions, rather than actually exploring the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do a google search for "Palestinian building permits" or "Israeli building permits" - a relatively neutral term.  What comes up - after you weed out the obvious crap?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no worries, I have read scads of reports.  I dive pretty deeply into subjects I'm interested in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then link to some of them.  Provide sources.  You ask me for them.
Click to expand...



Well, I haven't made a claim.  You have.

What sources were you looking for?


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let's clear up a few things...
> 
> Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?
> 
> What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?
> 
> What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?
> 
> Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?
> 
> Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?
> 
> Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?
> 
> Are the buildings safe?
> 
> Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?
> 
> 
> 
> I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree there are a whole host of reasons but that doesn't rule out discrimination as one of those reasons.
Click to expand...


Your GO TO claim was that Israel actively discriminates against Arabs because they are Arabs.  

So if a non-citizen of Israel builds a house without a permit, gets caught, and only then decides to apply for a permit, on land which he says is his, but has no records proving such, which is legally actually State land, in a town with no development plan in place, on a plot of land where only one house is permitted, but three already stand, fails to get proper building materials and builds something unsafe, and also happens to belong to a terrorist group and stores weapons in his house.....WHOAH!  Must be discrimination against Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Rigby5 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
> They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
> If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> {...
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.
> 
> This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.
> 
> For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
> ...}
Click to expand...

The Mandate states that Jews would become citizens of Palestine. Of course Palestinians would also be citizens of Palestine.

A separate state for the Jews was never mentioned.


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let's clear up a few things...
> 
> Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?
> 
> What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?
> 
> What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?
> 
> Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?
> 
> Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?
> 
> Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?
> 
> Are the buildings safe?
> 
> Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?
> 
> 
> 
> I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree there are a whole host of reasons but that doesn't rule out discrimination as one of those reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your GO TO claim was that Israel actively discriminates against Arabs because they are Arabs.
> 
> So if a non-citizen of Israel builds a house without a permit, gets caught, and only then decides to apply for a permit, on land which he says is his, but has no records proving such, which is legally actually State land, in a town with no development plan in place, on a plot of land where only one house is permitted, but three already stand, fails to get proper building materials and builds something unsafe, and also happens to belong to a terrorist group and stores weapons in his house.....WHOAH!  Must be discrimination against Arabs.
Click to expand...


So your GO TO claim is it can't possibly be discrimination against Arabs.  It's everything ELSE but *not that* right?

This article is pretty good imo - and it makes many of the same points you too including the complexity of proving land ownership.  However, it also points out the funding inequities that lead help Jewish builders and hurt Arab builders, and it points out that there IS an issue of discrimination.

Only 7% of Jerusalem building permits go to Palestinian neighborhoods
A lawsuit filed by the Beit Safafa Community Council gives some insight into the way the system is stacked against the Arab residents. The suit deals with two building plans for the Givat Hamatos area in southern Jerusalem; one plan is for land owned by the ILA and Jewish owners, while the other plan is for land owned by Arabs.

Both plans were approved by the city at the same time three years ago, but only the plan for Jewish construction was deposited for public comment and is moving forward, while the Arab plan, which would serve to expand Beit Safafa, is stuck. “There is a serious and well-founded concern that the fact this plan was not [advanced] does not stem from relevant or professional reasons, but is linked to political and other irrelevant considerations,” wrote attorney Mohannad Gbara, in the suit he filed on behalf of the community council.

“If anyone thinks the Palestinians’ frustration and rage are the result of incitement alone, the numbers and facts on the ground show otherwise,” said Wharton, the city councilor. “There’s no doubt that there’s incitement, but it’s planted deep in the fertile ground of discrimination. The policy of the city administration and its head is to block not just any movement of Palestinians but also their ability to build and live normal lives. Two cities have been created here, one for Israelis, in which there is investment, and one for Palestinians who are strangulated.”


----------



## Shusha

Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?  

Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...

They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.

They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.

They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.

There are security concerns.

There are accessibility concerns.

There are community development plans which should be written.

There is infrastructure to be built.  



If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
> They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
> If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> {...
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.
> 
> This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.
> 
> For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
> ...}
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it comes to those documents and period of history, I usually defer to people like RoccoR who have a more extensive knowledge than I.
> 
> But regardless...it's really irrelevant today.  It does not matter at all except to those who are trying to make arguments justifying the rights to and control of one side or the other to larger or smaller areas of territory.
> 
> It's not going to alter the fact of the existence of a sovereign nation that is established has itself as a nation for almost 75 years now.
Click to expand...

Of course it is never mentioned that the Palestinians have never ceded any land to Israel.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, _et  al,_
> 
> I've seen this before.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, this is a conjuring of the theory that *IF* the arrangement of words and phrases to create the impression of validity is repeated often enough, *THEN* it will miraculously become true.
> 
> The term "refugee," in the case of the Arab Palestinians, is an approximation towards the truth, but not the truth.  In mathematics we call this "bad notation"  or improper "syntax."  But when you know better, and still do it, you are encouraging disinformation.  In the realm of honesty, it should be avoided in general.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is close.  Actually, by international law, the status of "occupation" is defined in Article 42, of the 1907 Hague Regulation.
> View attachment 294056​Yes, there is some room to argue about this...
> 
> ◈  Since the Arab Palestinians never established sovereignty over any territory except Area "A" was any of the West Bank and Gaza Strip "Occupied Territory in the aftermath of the Six-Day War?
> 
> ◈  Since the Jordanian Government cut all ties with the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988, while it was under Israeli control, was that territory ever occupied by a hostile Army?
> 
> ◈  Since Israel cannot effectively control the Gaza Strip, and cannot maintain authority, it never had, and cannot exercise authority (effective control), is it legally occupied territory?​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is based on how you interpret the Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons (1954).
> 
> 
> For the purpose of this Convention, the try in which he finds himself, which require term "stateless person" means a person who is in particular that he conform to its laws and not considered as a national by any State under regulations as well as to measures taken for the operation of its law.​
> Now there are a couple of notable exceptions to the convention and the two that stand out the most relative to Arab Palestinians are:
> 
> ◈  The definition doesn't apply to those persons under UNHCR support.  But does apply to those receiving UNRWA Services.
> 
> ◈  It does not apply to those that have committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, which would leave out favorable consideration (but not limited) to:
> 
> ✦  Arab Palestinians who were members of organizations that were financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running;
> 
> ✦  Those involved or proving support to the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Those involved in the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> 
> ✦  Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure, or to continue to detain another person in order to compel a third party.
> 
> ✦  The unlawful use of an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​
> That would leave out a large segment of Arab Palestinians, especially those thousand and thousands of demonstrators that were involved in the fire kits and balloons from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> DID I miss anything?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> As with the Geneva Conventions, it is only an  occupation if the territory of a hostile state is taken, but since no one but Pakistan and the UK considered Judea and Samaria to be Jordanian territory, Israel's capture of the land cannot be considered an occupation.  Furthermore, since there is no rational basis in fact or logic for calling the territory Palestinian territory, the term, occupied Palestinian territory, has no substantial meaning other than that the person who states it wants it to be Palestinians territory, in other words, it is purely a propaganda term.  People who use these terms are the enemies of peace and progress in the ME.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally wrong.
> Palestine was established by the Allies according to their promise during WWI.
> The Treaty of Sevres, the Treaty of San Remo, etc., established Palestine as a defined and legal political entity.
> 
> Israel on the other hand, is just a whim of the UN, as a gesture to a bunch of European refugee immigrants.
> There is no legal, historical, or religious basis for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The same documents also recognized a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Israel exists, and has for coming on 75 years as a nation.  That is older than a number of other nations today.  Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These documents do NOT recognize a Jewish home land as having sovereignty.
> They recognize a Jewish home land within an free Arab, Muslim, Palestine.
> If you do not believe me, then read the 1922 Churchill Whitepaper that explains it in great detail.
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> {...
> The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.
> 
> Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.
> 
> Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
> 
> During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact "national" characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.
> 
> This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty's Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.
> 
> For the fulfilment of this policy it is necessary that the Jewish community in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment. Hitherto the immigration has fulfilled these conditions. The number of immigrants since the British occupation has been about 25,000.
> ...}
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate states that Jews would become citizens of Palestine. Of course Palestinians would also be citizens of Palestine.
> 
> A separate state for the Jews was never mentioned.
Click to expand...



The Mandate states that Jews would develop self-governing institutions. Neither Arabs nor Palestinians are mentioned.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let's clear up a few things...
> 
> Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?
> 
> What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?
> 
> What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?
> 
> Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?
> 
> Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?
> 
> Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?
> 
> Are the buildings safe?
> 
> Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?
> 
> 
> 
> I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree there are a whole host of reasons but that doesn't rule out discrimination as one of those reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your GO TO claim was that Israel actively discriminates against Arabs because they are Arabs.
> 
> So if a non-citizen of Israel builds a house without a permit, gets caught, and only then decides to apply for a permit, on land which he says is his, but has no records proving such, which is legally actually State land, in a town with no development plan in place, on a plot of land where only one house is permitted, but three already stand, fails to get proper building materials and builds something unsafe, and also happens to belong to a terrorist group and stores weapons in his house.....WHOAH!  Must be discrimination against Arabs.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> which is legally actually State land,


It is interesting that Israel claims "state land" in the Wast Bank when the West Bank is not in their state.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian women take part in anti-occupation protests during the First Intifada in 1987.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> So your GO TO claim is it can't possibly be discrimination against Arabs.  It's everything ELSE but *not that* right?



Nah.  My GO TO is to call out demonization of Israel when I see it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian farmer harvests oranges in his orchard in Beit Hanoun, northern Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A portrait of Muath al-Sawarka, killed along with eight family members in an Israeli airstrike in November, sits at the child’s school desk in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza Strip. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Strawberry season is back in Gaza!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girls play at a school run by UNRWA in Gaza City. In the background appears Bahaa Abu al-Ata's home which was bombed in the latest Israeli aggression on Gaza. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*[RAW FOOTAGE] LINDA SARSOUR INTRODUCES "CRIMINALIZING DISSENT" PALESTINIAN RIGHTS PANEL AT UMASS*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about
> 
> Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dr. Shibley Telhami, who conducted the University of Maryland poll, wrote Wednesday that rising support for a one-state solution is likely a result of despair from the possibility of implementing a two-state solution. “When one considers that many Israelis and Palestinians, as well as many Middle East experts, already believe that a two-state solution is no longer possible, especially given the large expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, it’s not hard to see why more people would be drawn to a one-state solution,” he wrote.
Click to expand...


Don’t believe that the majority of Israelis would be for the “ One State Solution” knowing they would be the minority, having virtually no say in their Gov”t, and actually being forbidden to travel to certain places within their own Country!
  Are you trying to convince yourself that the majority of Israelis would be for the equivalent of “ Right of Return”, eventually becoming the minority, and NOT being treated as equals regarding having access to their Religious Sites,


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ridiculous propaganda.
Is this what you call Jews being allowed to live in only 3% of Hebron?

Until the Arab pogroms, Jews have been living in Hebron continuously for 4,000 years,
today they return what was stolen from them in 1929, one house at a time.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian girls play at a school run by UNRWA in Gaza City. In the background appears Bahaa Abu al-Ata's home which was bombed in the latest Israeli aggression on Gaza. Photo by Ashraf Amra.



In other words,
wanna find a Jihadi coward look under their women's skirts.






Cache of rockets found in UN school in Gaza | UNRWA


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian girls play at a school run by UNRWA in Gaza City. In the background appears Bahaa Abu al-Ata's home which was bombed in the latest Israeli aggression on Gaza. Photo by Ashraf Amra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words,
> wanna find a Jihadi coward look under their women's skirts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cache of rockets found in UN school in Gaza | UNRWA
Click to expand...


Yet they “ cry” when kids die?    Such phony Palestinian Bull Shit


----------



## P F Tinmore

*CRIMINALIZING DISSENT: THE ATTACK ON BDS AND PRO-PALESTINIAN SPEECH*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let's clear up a few things...
> 
> Coyote claims that: Israel denies 94% of building permits to Arabs because of their ethnicity.  She quotes news articles paraphrasing reports written by NGOs and then suggests she has proven her claim.
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Israelis compared to Jewish Israelis?  (The answer, btw, is no one knows because its freaking illegal to ask such questions on building permits.  If measured by generally Jewish neighborhoods and generally Arab neighborhoods, its about the same, with Arabs receiving slightly higher percentages of acceptance.  They do apply MUCH less frequently though and illegal building by Arabs is rampant.)
> 
> What percentage of building permits are issued to Arab Palestinians (not citizens) compared to Israelis (citizens)?
> 
> What percentage of building permits issued by the PA are permitted by Israel in Area C?
> 
> What security concerns need to be addressed for any given location?
> 
> Is there a Community Development Plan in place for that area or village?
> 
> Is the applicant building on land which is privately owned by them?
> 
> Is the applicant building too many buildings on the same plot of land?
> 
> Are the buildings safe?
> 
> Was the permit applied for prior to beginning construction?
> 
> 
> 
> I think if we were to look into this seriously, there are a whole host of reasons why these permits may not be accepted and "because Israel discriminates against Arabs" isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree there are a whole host of reasons but that doesn't rule out discrimination as one of those reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your GO TO claim was that Israel actively discriminates against Arabs because they are Arabs.
> 
> So if a non-citizen of Israel builds a house without a permit, gets caught, and only then decides to apply for a permit, on land which he says is his, but has no records proving such, which is legally actually State land, in a town with no development plan in place, on a plot of land where only one house is permitted, but three already stand, fails to get proper building materials and builds something unsafe, and also happens to belong to a terrorist group and stores weapons in his house.....WHOAH!  Must be discrimination against Arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> which is legally actually State land,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is interesting that Israel claims "state land" in the Wast Bank when the West Bank is not in their state.
Click to expand...


It is interesting that the Palestinians claim “ state land” in the West Bank when the West Bank was formerly recognized as being part of Jordan


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about
> 
> Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dr. Shibley Telhami, who conducted the University of Maryland poll, wrote Wednesday that rising support for a one-state solution is likely a result of despair from the possibility of implementing a two-state solution. “When one considers that many Israelis and Palestinians, as well as many Middle East experts, already believe that a two-state solution is no longer possible, especially given the large expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, it’s not hard to see why more people would be drawn to a one-state solution,” he wrote.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don’t believe that the majority of Israelis would be for the “ One State Solution” knowing they would be the minority, having virtually no say in their Gov”t, and actually being forbidden to travel to certain places within their own Country!
> Are you trying to convince yourself that the majority of Israelis would be for the equivalent of “ Right of Return”, eventually becoming the minority, and NOT being treated as equals regarding having access to their Religious Sites,
Click to expand...


Listen, we have to separate the meaning of "One state solution"
when used by Arab propaganda, which is another code word for flooding Israel with millions of Muslims to achieve *complete domination over the entire middle east:*


From that which the Israelis perceive, when they use the term to basically mean -
"No more state solution". When Israelis use that term it's in the context of seeing how 80% of the territory initially allotted to Jewish sovereignty, is already divided between 2 Arab states making such terms as "One state" or "Two states" entirely meaningless.

Then when You examine demographic trends, immigration of Arabs to the west, along with declining birth rates all over the Arab world, while increasing Jewish birth rates (already exceeding the of the Arabs)- You get the full picture, and understand why the younger Israeli generation support for so called "One state solution" is growing.

It's just that Arab propaganda won't reveal You the reasons, and by twisting terms on their head, they're just setting themselves into another self imposed trap.

To sum it up - in 1-2 generations every 3rd Israeli is an Orthodox Jew.
Notice that I didn't say every Israeli Jew, but every Israeli as a whole.
This bears great significance for the near future, and while not being even slightly taken into account on the Arab side, can entirely change the equation politically, demographically, and on so many other levels, that this blindness on the Arab part insisting on the "One state solution" eventually spells their own self-defeat.

That's why I'm, and many other young Israelis are saying - bring it on!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Muslims: How do you celebrate Christmas?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gigi Hadid's brother visits Palestine for second time in 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Too young for this. Palestinian detainee Ashraf Edwan, 12, meets and hugs his mother at an Israeli court in Jerusalem today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Students at the American University in Cairo withdraw from a conference hosting former US diplomats, chanting slogans against the Israeli occupation and raising banners in support of the Palestinian cause.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mother of the Palestinian martyr Badawi al-Masalma cries as she holds a cellphone picture of her son who was shot dead by Israeli occupation forces yesterday in al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Um Jamil is among several Palestinian women pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo in besieged Gaza. She has been working in Gaza's fish market for 15 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

PALESTINIANS HAVE RIGHT TO RETURN.
PALESTINE BELONGS TO PALESTINIANS WITH ITS CAPITAL: JERUSALEM!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


> PALESTINIANS HAVE RIGHT TO RETURN.
> PALESTINE BELONGS TO PALESTINIANS WITH ITS CAPITAL: JERUSALEM!!


Why does it belong to only them?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Coyote

P F Tinmore said:


>


Skillful picture that could mean many things.  So the question is, in this one, what do you see?

It reminds me of Norman Rockwell’s painting of a little black girl, in a white depress, escorted by the police to her newly desegregated school.  The vantage point is from her perspective and the police loom huge in their uniforms and guns.

We see a soldier, clearly relaxed, listening to a boy sitting next to his downed bicycle.  The boy is gesturing with his hand as he he is talking.  He too looks relaxed in body language.  A second soldier is walking over.  The perspective is shot from the boy’s level, So the soldiers loom large and potentially threatening but no one looks tense.

I like this picture because there is a lot hidden there.  A story.

Perhaps his bike is broken, and he is trying to fix it, and the soldiers are coming to help.

Where is it from?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skillful picture that could mean many things.  So the question is, in this one, what do you see?
> 
> It reminds me of Norman Rockwell’s painting of a little black girl, in a white depress, escorted by the police to her newly desegregated school.  The vantage point is from her perspective and the police loom huge in their uniforms and guns.
> 
> We see a soldier, clearly relaxed, listening to a boy sitting next to his downed bicycle.  The boy is gesturing with his hand as he he is talking.  He too looks relaxed in body language.  A second soldier is walking over.  The perspective is shot from the boy’s level, So the soldiers loom large and potentially threatening but no one looks tense.
> 
> I like this picture because there is a lot hidden there.  A story.
> 
> Perhaps his bike is broken, and he is trying to fix it, and the soldiers are coming to help.
> 
> Where is it from?
Click to expand...

The boy's face looks worried.

The architecture looks like Hebron.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skillful picture that could mean many things.  So the question is, in this one, what do you see?
> 
> It reminds me of Norman Rockwell’s painting of a little black girl, in a white depress, escorted by the police to her newly desegregated school.  The vantage point is from her perspective and the police loom huge in their uniforms and guns.
> 
> We see a soldier, clearly relaxed, listening to a boy sitting next to his downed bicycle.  The boy is gesturing with his hand as he he is talking.  He too looks relaxed in body language.  A second soldier is walking over.  The perspective is shot from the boy’s level, So the soldiers loom large and potentially threatening but no one looks tense.
> 
> I like this picture because there is a lot hidden there.  A story.
> 
> Perhaps his bike is broken, and he is trying to fix it, and the soldiers are coming to help.
> 
> Where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The boy's face looks worried.
> 
> The architecture looks like Hebron.
Click to expand...

Of course he looks worried.  His parents have just told him he will have to kill a Jew and die a martyr so that they can collect a pension from the Martyr's fund, and he is asking the Israelis to help him.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mother of the Palestinian martyr Badawi al-Masalma cries as she holds a cellphone picture of her son who was shot dead by Israeli occupation forces yesterday in al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore

israeli settlers, under the armed protection of the israeli occupation forces cut down 150 olive trees in the village of Burqa, near Ramallah


----------



## P F Tinmore

Breaking: Israeli snipers have shot and killed 16-year-old Fahd al-Astal east of Khan Younis, southern Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian girl takes part in basketball training at Starts Academy in Gaza City. Photo by Mohammed Zaanoun.


----------



## Coyote

Let’s address this 



Shusha said:


> Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?



Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.




> Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...
> 
> They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.
> 
> They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.
> 
> They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.
> 
> There are security concerns.
> 
> There are accessibility concerns.
> 
> There are community development plans which should be written.
> 
> There is infrastructure to be built.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.



Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.

There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.

IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Coyote said:


> Let’s address this
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...
> 
> They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.
> 
> They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.
> 
> They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.
> 
> There are security concerns.
> 
> There are accessibility concerns.
> 
> There are community development plans which should be written.
> 
> There is infrastructure to be built.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.
> 
> There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.
> 
> IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation


Indeed, the PA is not allowed to provide any services and Israel won't. Typically they do not have water or electricity. If they dig a well or build a cistern to collect rain water, Israel bulldozes them. If they install solar panels, Israel hauls them off. Permits are virtually impossible to get.

Israel's plan is to drive all of the Palestinians into the bantustans.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s address this
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...
> 
> They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.
> 
> They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.
> 
> They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.
> 
> There are security concerns.
> 
> There are accessibility concerns.
> 
> There are community development plans which should be written.
> 
> There is infrastructure to be built.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.
> 
> There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.
> 
> IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the PA is not allowed to provide any services and Israel won't. Typically they do not have water or electricity. If they dig a well or build a cistern to collect rain water, Israel bulldozes them. If they install solar panels, Israel hauls them off. Permits are virtually impossible to get.
> 
> Israel's plan is to drive all of the Palestinians into the bantustans.
Click to expand...

All lies of course.  Existing Palestinian villages in area C have access to water, electricity, etc. and no one stops them from making small improvements within their villages if they apply for permits in a timely manner, but they rarely do and they are encouraged by EU NGO's  to ignore Israeli laws and build without permits despite the fact they know that the structures will be taken down if they do.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skillful picture that could mean many things.  So the question is, in this one, what do you see?
> 
> It reminds me of Norman Rockwell’s painting of a little black girl, in a white depress, escorted by the police to her newly desegregated school.  The vantage point is from her perspective and the police loom huge in their uniforms and guns.
> 
> We see a soldier, clearly relaxed, listening to a boy sitting next to his downed bicycle.  The boy is gesturing with his hand as he he is talking.  He too looks relaxed in body language.  A second soldier is walking over.  The perspective is shot from the boy’s level, So the soldiers loom large and potentially threatening but no one looks tense.
> 
> I like this picture because there is a lot hidden there.  A story.
> 
> Perhaps his bike is broken, and he is trying to fix it, and the soldiers are coming to help.
> 
> Where is it from?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The boy's face looks worried.
> 
> The architecture looks like Hebron.
Click to expand...



Translation:  I have no freaking idea what this photo is, the story behind it or the context.  I just thought it looked like scary Jews and a sad Arab boy so I thought it was a good thing to post to make Arabs look like victims and Jews look like demons.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.


Discrimination is a problem and a valid issue absolutely everywhere on the planet.  There is no place in the world where discrimination is not a valid issue.

I'm not ignoring that there is discrimination.  I'm suggesting that calling out the Jewish people or Israel for discrimination is low hanging fruit.  Especially compared to... well.... you know...lots of others.

Good grief Canada has loads of discrimination.  And come on (!) ... its Canada.  We are NICE.


----------



## Shusha

Coyote said:


> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.



Yes!  Exactly.  They are NOT governed by Israel.  They are citizens of Palestine and governed by Palestine.  But at the same time they are living under Israeli control in Israeli territory.  And the entire environment is hostile (both sides). 



> There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.


And they also get shot down by the PA, not wanting to see anything that cements Israel's control of territory.  (Hence all the illegal building). 



> IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.


Nope.  Not going to shoot you down.  I agree with you.  Israel should annex all of Area C which she intends to keep in a peace agreement (which is a lot but not all, and also doesn't prevent her from annexing more if she needs to in the future). Give all the Arab Palestinians in that territory the choice: come on board and get all the goodies, or we will drive you to the border with a nice compensation cheque.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s address this
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...
> 
> They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.
> 
> They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.
> 
> They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.
> 
> There are security concerns.
> 
> There are accessibility concerns.
> 
> There are community development plans which should be written.
> 
> There is infrastructure to be built.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.
> 
> There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.
> 
> IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the PA is not allowed to provide any services and Israel won't. Typically they do not have water or electricity. If they dig a well or build a cistern to collect rain water, Israel bulldozes them. If they install solar panels, Israel hauls them off. Permits are virtually impossible to get.
> 
> Israel's plan is to drive all of the Palestinians into the bantustans.
Click to expand...


All lies.  Water, electricity, sanitation, roads are all provided by Israel or in conjunction by the PA.  Cisterns are common. All social services are provided by the PA.  Any infrastructure erected by foreign interference is not tolerated.  Building permits ARE difficult to obtain, for a variety of reasons.


----------



## rylah

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s address this
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of looking for reasons to demonize Israel, can we please have a real conversation about the real issues?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough.  But discrimination is a valid issue and pretending it isn’t doesn’t help the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discussing specifically, the small, isolated, Arab villages in Area C...
> 
> They are populated by people who are not citizens of Israel, but citizens of Palestine.  Palestine is, by treaty, responsible for their welfare.  But they live in an area controlled by Israel.
> 
> They tend to be economically and socially based in an agricultural society, mostly farmers and herders.  They are being overtaken by urban growth.
> 
> They have a very different culture of land use and ownership than Israelis.
> 
> There are security concerns.
> 
> There are accessibility concerns.
> 
> There are community development plans which should be written.
> 
> There is infrastructure to be built.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are trying to solve problems, these are the topics we should be discussing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation - they aren't quite governed by Israel, but must submit to Israel's building authority, and they aren't quite governed by the PA who issue building permits only to have them torn down by Israel.  In some cases cities straddle borders creating even more confusion as to jurisdiction and the ability to expand.
> 
> There have been potential partnerships between Israel and PA to try to increase housing but they get shot down by Israeli politicians not wanting to see resources spent on Palestinians or anything that gives any more land to Palestinian families.  It's extremely political.
> 
> IMO (which will probably be shot down) - Israel should just annex Area C, offer the resident Palestinians citizenship, and then treat them as financially disadvantaged communities in need of resources and development and, maybe cultural protection for their agrarian lifestyle.  Fund the necessary infrastructure to bring them up to par with their fellow citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of the problem, from what read is that the Palestinians in Area C are kind of in a no man's land situation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the PA is not allowed to provide any services and Israel won't. Typically they do not have water or electricity. If they dig a well or build a cistern to collect rain water, Israel bulldozes them. If they install solar panels, Israel hauls them off. Permits are virtually impossible to get.
> 
> Israel's plan is to drive all of the Palestinians into the bantustans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All lies of course.  Existing Palestinian villages in area C have access to water, electricity, etc. and no one stops them from making small improvements within their villages if they apply for permits in a timely manner, but they rarely do and they are encouraged by EU NGO's  to ignore Israeli laws and build without permits despite the fact they know that the structures will be taken down if they do.
Click to expand...

Yes I was going to say the same, only add some context:

the PA provides services in its areas of control, Ramallah, Hebron etc. all these areas are truly thriving and constantly building modern 10-15 level apartment buildings and markets.
This is all well planned and organized, Ramallah could easily shy Tel-Aviv.

2nd level are the villages spread all over the map, there're 2 kinds of them, and this is typical to all Arab villages- roughly half of them are modernized suburban areas that cannot be differentiated other than by Mosque, and half of them are spontaneously gathered together private mansions, typical Arab style of urban development with almost impossible stoop and sharp turns on narrow streets and very crowded buildings. Look Wadi 'Ara or Majd el-Shams.
These tend to build completely spontaneously, everywhere one can see a new villa built inside a mountain at a strange distance from everyone else. The way they get electricity and water is by hacking the system and the government usually turns a blind eye where it seen as a within the natural boundaries of the town's development.  Then when more families move to the new area, the govt will make them pay a symbolic fine and move in the infrastructure - these are all private homes and mansions.

3rd level is what Tinmore was talking about, entirely wild shacks, built out of metal plates, parts of roofs and some wood to hold it standing on the sides of the roads. Caravans basically only without camels. These are either Bedouins or outcasts.






Also in this category are Hiltop folks, they usually build on top, with or without a fence depending on the stock.






None have electricity or water, and the govt routinely destroy or arrests both of them. Eventually the govt itself proposes both of them an opportunity to participate in building the land in planned projects that take place in the area.
Those who want to keep it that way - their problem, but everyone knows exactly how to follow the laws and the steps to plan communities that can be recognized by the govt.

The overall plan is not to create bantustans, but to follow the Country Outline Plan that outlines regional areas of centralized governance, several towns and villages in a unit of a natural landscape, or a region of one big city. And to sift appropriate projects and connect them into the boundaries of regional governance.

Regional councils are as said are usually based on units of natural landscape, centers of economy, and cultural centers in the country. Some are entirely Arab, some entirely Jewish, some mixed are with the addition of Bedouin and Druze towns.

Bantustants were based on skin color.

Israel doesn't divide it's governance according to skin color, but according to natural cultural and geographical landscapes of the country.


----------



## rylah

*Israeli Arabs and Palestinian Arabs Flaunting Their Wealth on TikTok*


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> *Israeli Arabs and Palestinian Arabs Flaunting Their Wealth on TikTok*



Thanks. You beat me to it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good night from Gaza | Palestine❤️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Sabreen Al Najjar, mother of murdered medic #Razan, supports call for a military embargo on Israel: “It’s the obligation of the international community to act & stop supplying Israel with the weapons that it used to kill Razan and so many others like her.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel, the rubble capital of the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A photo of Al-Shawa family, in #Gaza, celebrating their son's Birthday on the ruins of their house which was destroyed by Israeli occupation warplanes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Failing the Palestinian People: Lamis Deek at Reels for Radicals Palestinian Film Screening*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The 15th Israeli Apartheid Week opens today with well-attended anti-apartheid events in more than 200 cities around the world #IAW #BDS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian embroidery for generations ❤️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine will be Free .. ✌️


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine's other open-air prison


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Please consider supporting MintPress News during our current fundraising campaign so we can continue doing important work and bringing you an independent perspective you won't see in the mainstream media! 

Join us today! patreon.com/MintPressNews


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's other open-air prison



That's what you get for starting two intifada's and continuing to threaten Israel's existence. 

The Palestinians brought this upon themselves.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


>



You truly are the king of Palestinian propaganda Tinmore.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



So are Israeli Rights


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



What is the name of this Street in Ramallah?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jesus' Birthplace of Bethlehem: Surrounded by Israeli Occupation (Ex-Mayor of Bethlehem)*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Abby Martin- Netanyahu Should Be Indicted for War Crimes! ‘Gaza Fights for Freedom!’*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian girl wearing the traditional Palestinian dress.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces have raided the house of former Palestinian minister of local governance Essia al-Ja'bari, demolished the properties of the house and stolen about $ 3,000.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces arrested 25 Palestinian citizens from different areas across the occupied West Bank last night.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Raise your voice more, we will be always supporting you!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rebuilding the Gaza Strip: Obstacles and Opportunities*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

1920 old Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

1920 old Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

“A thirteen-year-old boy from Jabalia refugee camp died on January 14 after being critically injured by Israeli forces three days earlier during “Great March of Return” protests in the northern Gaza Strip.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Lama al-Bakri is returned to her family's embrace after 39 months in the Israeli jails.

Lama was shot by Israeli soldiers when she was 15 years old in 2015 - she was coming back from school.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian Lama al-Bakri is returned to her family's embrace after 39 months in the Israeli jails.
> 
> Lama was shot by Israeli soldiers when she was 15 years old in 2015 - she was coming back from school.



She was “coming back from school”. Oh please. 

She was the perpetrator of a stabbing attack.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Is a Two State Solution a Rejection of Equal Rights and the Continuation of Apartheid?*

**


----------



## toomuchtime_

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian Lama al-Bakri is returned to her family's embrace after 39 months in the Israeli jails.
> 
> Lama was shot by Israeli soldiers when she was 15 years old in 2015 - she was coming back from school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was “coming back from school”. Oh please.
> 
> She was the perpetrator of a stabbing attack.
Click to expand...

Obviously, Tinmore's point is that among Palestinian children killing Jews is just a normal after school activity.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Interview with the Directors of GAZA a film that premiered at Sundance 2019*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

One of the highlights of #NSJP2019 was hearing from dozens of students at our Know Your Rights workshop about the backlash and concerns you face in your Palestine advocacy. 

If your campus group would like a KYR workshop next semester, please reach out: https://palestinelegal.org/contact


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Life of muslim children in occupied Palestine, Israel forces are real terrorists*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.







2009 Temple Mount riots - Wikipedia

A Israeli Settler SHOUTS at a woman attempting to enter the Mosque?

 Is that the best you can do ?     Do you condemn the Palestinian Violence?  Of course not.
 Since you're against " Apartheid" what would be wrong with giving Israelis equal Rights to their Religious Site?   
  There will be no response; there never is


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>







‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal


 Justice has already spoken when they fired him.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Life of muslim children in occupied Palestine, Israel forces are real terrorists*
> 
> **







Mothers’ feelings when sons are martyred: “Palestine is one, the sons are many”‎ | PMW Translations

  This is how much Palestinian's " love" their Children


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Temple Mount riots - Wikipedia
> 
> A Israeli Settler SHOUTS at a woman attempting to enter the Mosque?
> 
> Is that the best you can do ?     Do you condemn the Palestinian Violence?  Of course not.
> Since you're against " Apartheid" what would be wrong with giving Israelis equal Rights to their Religious Site?
> There will be no response; there never is
Click to expand...


There is no significant Palestinian violence to condemn.
Retaliating against criminal actions is not violence.
The Zionists started everything, and therefore bear all the responsibility for everything they caused.

There is no known Jewish religious site anywhere in Palestine.
The Temple Mount is likely where Herod's palace was, not the Temple of Solomon.
No one has any idea where that might have been at any time, since there were 2 different ones.

The Wailing Wall is neither Jewish nor religious.
It is a foundation by the Phoenicians or Canaanites, predating the Hebrew invasion by over 300 years.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
Click to expand...


That obviously is a lie.
Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Life of muslim children in occupied Palestine, Israel forces are real terrorists*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mothers’ feelings when sons are martyred: “Palestine is one, the sons are many”‎ | PMW Translations
> 
> This is how much Palestinian's " love" their Children
Click to expand...



Obviously there are things more important than life itself.
Life is temporary, and society, culture, family, tribe, etc., are the only things permanent and worth sacrificing for.
But justice is even more important, and Israel is violating justice.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Life of muslim children in occupied Palestine, Israel forces are real terrorists*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mothers’ feelings when sons are martyred: “Palestine is one, the sons are many”‎ | PMW Translations
> 
> This is how much Palestinian's " love" their Children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously there are things more important than life itself.
> Life is temporary, and society, culture, family, tribe, etc., are the only things permanent and worth sacrificing for.
> But justice is even more important, and Israel is violating justice.
Click to expand...



  With that Palestinian Mentality, you would think that there are things more important then Human life; especially when it comes to your Children


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
Click to expand...


Another lie. Hebron is just one example,


Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Temple Mount riots - Wikipedia
> 
> A Israeli Settler SHOUTS at a woman attempting to enter the Mosque?
> 
> Is that the best you can do ?     Do you condemn the Palestinian Violence?  Of course not.
> Since you're against " Apartheid" what would be wrong with giving Israelis equal Rights to their Religious Site?
> There will be no response; there never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no significant Palestinian violence to condemn.
> Retaliating against criminal actions is not violence.
> The Zionists started everything, and therefore bear all the responsibility for everything they caused.
> 
> There is no known Jewish religious site anywhere in Palestine.
> The Temple Mount is likely where Herod's palace was, not the Temple of Solomon.
> No one has any idea where that might have been at any time, since there were 2 different ones.
> 
> The Wailing Wall is neither Jewish nor religious.
> It is a foundation by the Phoenicians or Canaanites, predating the Hebrew invasion by over 300 years.
Click to expand...



   There are no known Religious Jewish Sites in Israel including E. Jerusalem?  Thank you for displaying your ignorance, bigotry, and hate 

https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/ent/?ent-type=jewish-holy-sites


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
Click to expand...




Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
Click to expand...



Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??     

Refuge in Latin America


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
Click to expand...






  You can't help yourself; Lying just comes so easily to you 

General Franco gave list of Spanish Jews to Nazis


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
Click to expand...

What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
Click to expand...


You


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
Click to expand...




Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"

  To answer your question one would have to justify and explain this which is only one example .   Your " question" actually condones the Mass killing of Jews during WW 11


   Another small example,  Does this answer your rather stupid bigoted question?

Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Life of muslim children in occupied Palestine, Israel forces are real terrorists*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mothers’ feelings when sons are martyred: “Palestine is one, the sons are many”‎ | PMW Translations
> 
> This is how much Palestinian's " love" their Children
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously there are things more important than life itself.
> Life is temporary, and society, culture, family, tribe, etc., are the only things permanent and worth sacrificing for.
> But justice is even more important, and Israel is violating justice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> With that Palestinian Mentality, you would think that there are things more important then Human life; especially when it comes to your Children
Click to expand...


That is silly because all countries send their children off to die when there is a war.
All countries, societies, cultures, etc., consider there are things more important than life.
If there were not true, then there would never be a war or rebellion.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another lie. Hebron is just one example,
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Temple Mount riots - Wikipedia
> 
> A Israeli Settler SHOUTS at a woman attempting to enter the Mosque?
> 
> Is that the best you can do ?     Do you condemn the Palestinian Violence?  Of course not.
> Since you're against " Apartheid" what would be wrong with giving Israelis equal Rights to their Religious Site?
> There will be no response; there never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no significant Palestinian violence to condemn.
> Retaliating against criminal actions is not violence.
> The Zionists started everything, and therefore bear all the responsibility for everything they caused.
> 
> There is no known Jewish religious site anywhere in Palestine.
> The Temple Mount is likely where Herod's palace was, not the Temple of Solomon.
> No one has any idea where that might have been at any time, since there were 2 different ones.
> 
> The Wailing Wall is neither Jewish nor religious.
> It is a foundation by the Phoenicians or Canaanites, predating the Hebrew invasion by over 300 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no known Religious Jewish Sites in Israel including E. Jerusalem?  Thank you for displaying your ignorance, bigotry, and hate
> 
> https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/ent/?ent-type=jewish-holy-sites
Click to expand...


That is a lie.
The Hebron riot of 1929 was started by a Zionist killing an Arab merchant.
And the proof it was started by armed Zionists is that the death rate was about 30 on each side, even though the Arabs out numbered the Jews by 10 to 1 and could easily have massacred them all if they wanted to.

Zionists are claiming late Roman sites as Jewish sites, and are invalid.
Herod for example, was Roman and only converted to Judaism out of convenience.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
Click to expand...


Wrong 
You are just reading Holocaust Museum propaganda, which is worse than useless.
Read something more neutral, like wikipedia.

History of the Jews in Spain - Wikipedia

Its not sugar coated or ideal, but clearly Palestine was also willingly accepting Jews.
It is only after Jews started killing and taking over in Palestine, that there were problems.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't help yourself; Lying just comes so easily to you
> 
> General Franco gave list of Spanish Jews to Nazis
Click to expand...


No, you are lying.
Franco did not expel or intern any Jews.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"
> 
> To answer your question one would have to justify and explain this which is only one example .   Your " question" actually condones the Mass killing of Jews during WW 11
> 
> 
> Another small example,  Does this answer your rather stupid bigoted question?
> 
> Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


That is  a foolish answer.
Germany was about the LEAST discriminatory against Jews before WWI.
It was Zionist treachery during WWI that turned all Germans against Jews.
For example, in return for the Balfour Declaration by the British, Chaim Weizman gave the British the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite, and some unnamed Zionist stole the Zimmerman Letter from Berlin, and gave it to the British.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.



That's like asking why women are raped every where in the world.  Must be something women are doing wrong.

Ugh.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another lie. Hebron is just one example,
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scary Israeli settler angrily shouts at Jerusalemite woman as she attempts to enter Al Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Temple Mount riots - Wikipedia
> 
> A Israeli Settler SHOUTS at a woman attempting to enter the Mosque?
> 
> Is that the best you can do ?     Do you condemn the Palestinian Violence?  Of course not.
> Since you're against " Apartheid" what would be wrong with giving Israelis equal Rights to their Religious Site?
> There will be no response; there never is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no significant Palestinian violence to condemn.
> Retaliating against criminal actions is not violence.
> The Zionists started everything, and therefore bear all the responsibility for everything they caused.
> 
> There is no known Jewish religious site anywhere in Palestine.
> The Temple Mount is likely where Herod's palace was, not the Temple of Solomon.
> No one has any idea where that might have been at any time, since there were 2 different ones.
> 
> The Wailing Wall is neither Jewish nor religious.
> It is a foundation by the Phoenicians or Canaanites, predating the Hebrew invasion by over 300 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no known Religious Jewish Sites in Israel including E. Jerusalem?  Thank you for displaying your ignorance, bigotry, and hate
> 
> Jewish Holy Sites Archives - iTravelJerusalem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is a lie.
> The Hebron riot of 1929 was started by a Zionist killing an Arab merchant.
> And the proof it was started by armed Zionists is that the death rate was about 30 on each side, even though the Arabs out numbered the Jews by 10 to 1 and could easily have massacred them all if they wanted to.
> 
> Zionists are claiming late Roman sites as Jewish sites, and are invalid.
> Herod for example, was Roman and only converted to Judaism out of convenience.
Click to expand...



  Know when a Pro Palestinian lies?  When they open their mouth .  The above are not " Roman Sites"

1929: Hebron massacre begins, with a big push from the mufti

Hebron did not start with a " Zionist" killing an Arab


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitism of the "Church Fathers"
> 
> To answer your question one would have to justify and explain this which is only one example .   Your " question" actually condones the Mass killing of Jews during WW 11
> 
> 
> Another small example,  Does this answer your rather stupid bigoted question?
> 
> Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is  a foolish answer.
> Germany was about the LEAST discriminatory against Jews before WWI.
> It was Zionist treachery during WWI that turned all Germans against Jews.
> For example, in return for the Balfour Declaration by the British, Chaim Weizman gave the British the formula for synthetic acetone for cordite, and some unnamed Zionist stole the Zimmerman Letter from Berlin, and gave it to the British.
Click to expand...


  This is what Chaim Weizman did.  Your point?

Discovery _of_ synthetic acetone He is considered to be the father _of_ industrial fermentation. He used the bacterium Clostridium acetobutylicum (the _Weizmann_ organism) to produce acetone. ... After the Shell Crisis _of_ 1915 _during World War I_, _Weizmann_ was director _of_ the British Admiralty laboratories from 1916 until 1919.

  What " Zionist" stole the Zimmerman letter? The more you post the more you lie

    Please tell us what the Jews did before 1925 to legitimize his beliefs.  In your warped " mind" you will think of something 

*[edit]*
In _Mein Kampf_, Hitler used the main thesis of "the Jewish peril", which posits a Jewish conspiracy to gain world leadership.[9] The narrative describes the process by which he became increasingly antisemitic and militaristic, especially during his years in Vienna. He speaks of not having met a Jew until he arrived in Vienna, and that at first his attitude was liberal and tolerant. When he first encountered the antisemitic press, he says, he dismissed it as unworthy of serious consideration. Later he accepted the same antisemitic views, which became crucial to his program of national reconstruction of Germany.

_Mein Kampf_ has also been studied as a work on political theory. For example, Hitler announces his hatred of what he believed to be the world's two evils: Communism and Judaism.

In the book Hitler blamed Germany's chief woes on the parliament of the Weimar Republic, the Jews, and Social Democrats, as well as Marxists, though he believed that Marxists, Social Democrats, and the parliament were all working for Jewish interests.[10] He announced that he wanted to completely destroy the parliamentary system, believing it to be corrupt in principle, as those who reach power are inherent opportunists.

*Antisemitism[edit]*
While historians dispute the exact date Hitler decided to exterminate the Jewish people, few place the decision before the mid-1930s.[11] First published in 1925, _Mein Kampf_ shows Hitler's personal grievances and his ambitions for creating a New Order.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ‘Palestine From the River to the Sea’ Has Always Been a Call for Annihilation Not Liberation | Jewish Journal
> 
> 
> Justice has already spoken when they fired him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That obviously is a lie.
> Arab Muslims controlled all of Palestine, including any Jews living there, in the 1920s and before, so clearly Jews have never been in danger from Arab Muslims.
> If there had been any hint of risk, then Jews would not have emigrated there before and after WWII.
> Instead they would have gone to Spain, Madagascar, Uruguay, and the hundreds of other countries that wanted them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.  Jewish immigration to Latin America was Limited at best .  Spain wanted them??
> 
> Refuge in Latin America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't help yourself; Lying just comes so easily to you
> 
> General Franco gave list of Spanish Jews to Nazis
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you are lying.
> Franco did not expel or intern any Jews.
Click to expand...



You are the liar 
General Franco gave list of Spanish Jews to Nazis


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>







Saudi Prince Says Israelis Have Right to ‘Their Own Land’


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Prince Says Israelis Have Right to ‘Their Own Land’
Click to expand...






Saudi Arabia and Israel still have no formal relations, and Saudi leaders have historically criticized the Jewish state for its treatment of the Palestinians and for limiting access to Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem.

 Which is exactly what will happen to the Jewish People if the Palestinians ever got control of E. Jerusalem which is why it will never happen


----------



## Coyote

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like asking why women are raped every where in the world.  Must be something women are doing wrong.
> 
> Ugh.
Click to expand...


I agree with that.

Hating individuals is understandable.

But if an entire ethnic group - you have to question the stereotypes and canards....and so often it turns into blaming the hated.

People are individuals, not just groups.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→  _et al,_

Yes, this is one of those questions that may be explained and resolved in different ways.



Coyote said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like asking why women are raped every where in the world.  Must be something women are doing wrong.
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with that.
> 
> Hating individuals is understandable.
> 
> But if an entire ethnic group - you have to question the stereotypes and canards....and so often it turns into blaming the hated.
> 
> People are individuals, not just groups.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

This is a matter of "bias."  Which model car do you like?  Well, what I like or dislike in a car is _(in all probability)_ not universally agreed upon.  You may like a "Ford" where as I like a "Chevy."  And my wife just bought a "Jeep."   Which answer is the correct answer?  Which perspective is the correct perspective?

Just as cars have differing characteristics, → to say there is an ethnic component to the answer to a question is to cite some intrinsically different characteristic which impacts the individual consideration or has some meaning.  Similarly, "color" has an impact.  I happen to like the color "blue."  But my sister has always bought a "red" car.  You can easily see that one color is no less right than the other.  It is a matter of preference.

People ARE individuals (as Coyote says).  And there will be these kinds of disagreements for well into the future.  When these types of disputes are no more, then the fundamental nature of humanity will have changed. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, this is one of those questions that may be explained and resolved in different ways.
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is it like being hated every place you go? I would look into why that happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's like asking why women are raped every where in the world.  Must be something women are doing wrong.
> 
> Ugh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with that.
> 
> Hating individuals is understandable.
> 
> But if an entire ethnic group - you have to question the stereotypes and canards....and so often it turns into blaming the hated.
> 
> People are individuals, not just groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is a matter of "bias."  Which model car do you like?  Well, what I like or dislike in a car is _(in all probability)_ not universally agreed upon.  You may like a "Ford" where as I like a "Chevy."  And my wife just bought a "Jeep."   Which answer is the correct answer?  Which perspective is the correct perspective?
> 
> Just as cars have differing characteristics, → to say there is an ethnic component to the answer to a question is to cite some intrinsically different characteristic which impacts the individual consideration or has some meaning.  Similarly, "color" has an impact.  I happen to like the color "blue."  But my sister has always bought a "red" car.  You can easily see that one color is no less right than the other.  It is a matter of preference.
> 
> People ARE individuals (as Coyote says).  And there will be these kinds of disagreements for well into the future.  When these types of disputes are no more, then the fundamental nature of humanity will have changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...



“Jeep” is always the correct answer. Your wife wins.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza holds fifth film festival with no cinemas*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fallout in Gaza: Six Months On (Full Length)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MJB12741

Just look what the Palestinians have done & are still doing to the Christians of Bethlehem.


https://unitedwithisrael.org/watch-christian-palestinian-begs-israel-to-stop-pa-from-destroying bethlehem


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rare Video Nelson Mandela BREAKS SILENCE on Palestine.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rare Video Nelson Mandela BREAKS SILENCE on Palestine.*




   This is actually funny.  In his beloved Country of S. Africa it's legal to take Farmland away from Whites and give it to Blacks in the name of " justice" yet he comments on Israel?
   At least he is now in a place where he can't be heard


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine Legal

We had a great time at the National SJP conference hosted by Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP UMN) last weekend! Thanks for all your hard work bringing together hundreds of students from all walks of life. And thank you to the students for giving us light and inspiration in your struggle for justice! ⠀
⠀
Congrats on your 9th year of organizing and we're looking forward to commemorating your 10th next year!⠀
⠀
#NSJP2019 — at University of Minnesota.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


They'd better behave themselves or we'll take away their crayons.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



A lie of course.
What is actually banned is incitement to murder and racism.

No one is "threatening your right to boycott" anyone, as long as you don't use the govt. budget to force others to discriminate as well.

In fact, I dare all BDS-holes to actually do as they say,
please stop using all Israeli products, and report back from that cave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Christians have suffered a great deal in Arab countries.  Scores of Christian Copts get killed in Egypt without it ever reaching the Western media news.  Christians thrive in Israel, and I know this from personal sources.  My best friend, who made Aliyah, teaches at an Armenian Christian school in Jerusalem.  So the Pope should not support the Palestinians, if he is smart.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic. 

“The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”


The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
Click to expand...

The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.
Click to expand...

it's not just Trump, all the western democracies are accepting the IHRA definition of anti semitism.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Trump, all the western democracies are accepting the IHRA definition of anti semitism.
Click to expand...


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Trump, all the western democracies are accepting the IHRA definition of anti semitism.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

lol  More whining anti semites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Trump, all the western democracies are accepting the IHRA definition of anti semitism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  More whining anti semites.
Click to expand...

Pfffft!


----------



## rylah

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news from Calgary City, which is now the second city in Canada to reject a measure that would define advocacy for Palestinian rights as antisemitic.
> 
> “The IHRA re-definition is so vague that it provides virtually no help in deciding if a particular incident is or is not antisemitic,” said Corey Balsam, Independent Jewish Voices Canada National Coordinator. “What’s more, it includes various so-called ‘illustrative examples of antisemitism’ that fall plainly within the realm of Charter-protected political speech.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that Canada like most western democracies has accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism and while some anti semites loudly oppose it, they don't seem able to explain how it limits their freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The anti Semite card is no longer the ace of trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's not just Trump, all the western democracies are accepting the IHRA definition of anti semitism.
Click to expand...


Tinnie, our forums "not-antisemite" has for the last 10 years on a daily basis,
been obsessively pushing most vulgar bigotry under the veil of Palestinian "advocacy".

Now, just like the rest of these racist lowlifes,
he blames everyone else for being caught with the pants down.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd better behave themselves or we'll take away their crayons.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


>



WOW..... What a shock!   Who is “ president “ of this organization; Farrakhan??


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

Palestinian "advocacy"...


----------



## P F Tinmore

The lawfare suit against SFSU and Prof. Abdulhadi has been stopped for now! Today, Judge Orrick said he will dismiss a lawsuit demanding the censorship of scholarship and activism on Palestine at San Francisco State University.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> The lawfare suit against SFSU and Prof. Abdulhadi has been stopped for now! Today, Judge Orrick said he will dismiss a lawsuit demanding the censorship of scholarship and activism on Palestine at San Francisco State University.


They'd better be careful.  SFSU's federal funding now depends on discipling anti semites.


----------



## rylah

*Bir Zeit university celebrates with a public Nazi salute 
*
This week marks the 52nd anniversary of the establishment of the PFLP.
At a parade held by members of the organization, masked men waving red flags of the organization marched with images of its founder George Habash and other terrorists, including Ahmed Sa'adat, who was the secretary general of the front who ordered the murder of Minister Rehavam Ze'evi.

The students condemned the PA and spoke of national unity, calling for terrorist activities and suicide attacks.

*Quds News*


----------



## toomuchtime_

rylah said:


> *Bir Zeit university celebrates with a public Nazi salute
> *
> This week marks the 52nd anniversary of the establishment of the PFLP.
> At a parade held by members of the organization, masked men waving red flags of the organization marched with images of its founder George Habash and other terrorists, including Ahmed Sa'adat, who was the secretary general of the front who ordered the murder of Minister Rehavam Ze'evi.
> 
> The students condemned the PA and spoke of national unity, calling for terrorist activities and suicide attacks.
> 
> *Quds News*


It kind of makes sense because when they graduate the Martyrs Fund will offer them their best career opportunities.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Here's what California State University said about a "Lawfare" suit. Read more highlights: bit.ly/2wM0hPt


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Here's what California State University said about a "Lawfare" suit. Read more highlights: bit.ly/2wM0hPt


Nothing but a bunch of thin skinned terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nermin Al-Sawarka (Abu Malhous), 10 years old. Israeli occupation army last week, 14 November, bombed her home, killing Nermin's mother and three brothers and injuring her and her father. Today, 22 November, Nermin's father succumbed to his wounds.
Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers attack Palestinian citizens as they protest land theft for settlement construction in Surif town near the West Bank City of Al-Khalil.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mohammed and Marwa got married only a few weeks before the Israeli aggression on Gaza last week. An Israeli rocket turned the house of the newlyweds into wreckage.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers attack Palestinian citizens as they protest land theft for settlement construction in Surif town near the West Bank City of Al-Khalil.



So how many Jews are now living in Surif?
I'd like to visit...but we both know this is just bs propaganda.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mohammed and Marwa got married only a few weeks before the Israeli aggression on Gaza last week. An Israeli rocket turned the house of the newlyweds into wreckage.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: WPalestine Todayho Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ _P F Tinmore, et al,_

This is another one of those pictures that has no specifics context or association to a specific event. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers attack Palestinian citizens as they protest land theft for settlement construction in Surif town near the West Bank City of Al-Khalil.


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot trust this commentary from  "P F Tinmore."  

These are Police Officers, NOT Israeli Soldiers.  It is damn hard to tell what is going on here.

You can study this picture all you want.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: WPalestine Todayho Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→ _P F Tinmore, et al,_
> 
> This is another one of those pictures that has no specifics context or association to a specific event.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli soldiers attack Palestinian citizens as they protest land theft for settlement construction in Surif town near the West Bank City of Al-Khalil.
> View attachment 295296
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot trust this commentary from  "P F Tinmore."
> 
> These are Police Officers, NOT Israeli Soldiers.  It is damn hard to tell what is going on here.
> 
> You can study this picture all you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> These are Police Officers, NOT Israeli Soldiers.


Same shit, different platter.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ _P F Tinmore, et al,Police vs Soldier - What's the difference?_

Oh man! You are confused.  Your hatred runs so very deep, that you no longer understand "who is who → or → what is what."
*•  Police vs Soldier - What's the difference?  •*
The police force, like the military is part of the coercive state. Both of them are uniformed, disciplined and armed bodies; yet they are different in many ways.

1. In the first place, military is called into action rarely only at times of war, emergency or natural disaster; the police force has a day to day involvement in public life. Thus the police is more closer and integrated in the social life, than is the military, which remains alienated.

2. Police are usually unarmed or their arms are primarily for self-defences while military uses arms for defending the country.​


			
				Article 43 of the Hague Regulation said:
			
		

> The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the *measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety*, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
> *SOURCE:* •  ICRC Customary and International Humanitarian Law  •


[/indent]


RoccoR said:


> These are Police Officers, NOT Israeli Soldiers.





P F Tinmore said:


> Same shit, different platter.


*(COMMENT)*

Hatred is an emotion, outside the Rule of Law (RoL).  Reason is a justification for productive action.    In this case, you simply have difficulty understanding the language used in the agreement which outlines the civil and security control exercised by the Israelis within Area "C" - and - separating the emotional acts which are prejudicial public order and safety from that which is established under the RoL.

*(REMEMBER)*

The RoL is ofter disposed of in cases of Arab Palestinian activist movements in which armed struggle has been predetermined to be the only way to liberate Palestine. This basic activist stance is political and spawns civil confrontation with authority as a strategy.  The strategy is activism to establish public awareness and garner public sympathy from outside the framework of which comes from societal norms for public order. 

The Police operates to give the society from activities outside the norms.

The Soldiers operates to further diplomacy by other means.
_


_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli soldiers attack Palestinian citizens as they protest land theft for settlement construction in Surif town near the West Bank City of Al-Khalil.


 Thread? No content; What a surprise!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ _P F Tinmore, et al,Police vs Soldier - What's the difference?_
> 
> Oh man! You are confused.  Your hatred runs so very deep, that you no longer understand "who is who → or → what is what."
> *•  Police vs Soldier - What's the difference?  •*
> The police force, like the military is part of the coercive state. Both of them are uniformed, disciplined and armed bodies; yet they are different in many ways.
> 
> 1. In the first place, military is called into action rarely only at times of war, emergency or natural disaster; the police force has a day to day involvement in public life. Thus the police is more closer and integrated in the social life, than is the military, which remains alienated.
> 
> 2. Police are usually unarmed or their arms are primarily for self-defences while military uses arms for defending the country.​
> 
> 
> 
> Article 43 of the Hague Regulation said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the *measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety*, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
> *SOURCE:* •  ICRC Customary and International Humanitarian Law  •
> 
> 
> 
> [/indent]
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are Police Officers, NOT Israeli Soldiers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same shit, different platter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hatred is an emotion, outside the Rule of Law (RoL).  Reason is a justification for productive action.    In this case, you simply have difficulty understanding the language used in the agreement which outlines the civil and security control exercised by the Israelis within Area "C" - and - separating the emotional acts which are prejudicial public order and safety from that which is established under the RoL.
> 
> *(REMEMBER)*
> 
> The RoL is ofter disposed of in cases of Arab Palestinian activist movements in which armed struggle has been predetermined to be the only way to liberate Palestine. This basic activist stance is political and spawns civil confrontation with authority as a strategy.  The strategy is activism to establish public awareness and garner public sympathy from outside the framework of which comes from societal norms for public order.
> 
> The Police operates to give the society from activities outside the norms.
> 
> The Soldiers operates to further diplomacy by other means.
> _
> 
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...










From the Palestinian's perspective (the wrong end of a gun) is there any substantial difference.

Seems like an overkill for dealing with an unarmed civilian population.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Seems like an overkill for dealing with an unarmed civilian population.



What a silly sound byte.
Let me ask you, do you imagine all the "honor" killings and unending family disputes cause deaths with sticks and shovels?

Unarmed civilian population:


































Here's another one for some context from Al- Monitor:

*Palestinians up in arms over weapons proliferation*
The PA is criticized for failing to end the spread of weapons among citizens in the West Bank, where family disputes often end tragically.

So much for your "unarmed population" sound byte.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> **



So in response to Israel's surgical assassination of their military commander,
they  respond shooting indiscriminately on civilian population - they're lowlife cowards.

Also notice how all their rockets are placed in residential areas.


----------



## toomuchtime_

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in response to Israel's surgical assassination of their military commander,
> they  respond shooting indiscriminately on civilian population - they're lowlife cowards.
> 
> Also notice how all their rockets are placed in residential areas.
Click to expand...

A clear demonstration that the withdrawal from Gaza was a mistake.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toomuchtime_ said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in response to Israel's surgical assassination of their military commander,
> they  respond shooting indiscriminately on civilian population - they're lowlife cowards.
> 
> Also notice how all their rockets are placed in residential areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A clear demonstration that the withdrawal from Gaza was a mistake.
Click to expand...


Which is why they will never withdraw from the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in response to Israel's surgical assassination of their military commander,
> they  respond shooting indiscriminately on civilian population - they're lowlife cowards.
> 
> Also notice how all their rockets are placed in residential areas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A clear demonstration that the withdrawal from Gaza was a mistake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which is why they will never withdraw from the W. Bank or E. Jerusalem
Click to expand...


Yes, and just to think that the person who did it, when was a commander in the army,
on his own initiative against the orders from the govt, conquered the entire Sinai peninsula.

"What You see from there, is not what You see from here"...as he explained once quoting a verse from a song.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

I'll say this just once*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*


*(COMMENT)*

Any day is a good day to kill a terrorist.


			
				Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) said:
			
		

>


The Arab Palestinians have no special dispensation to conduct acts of terrorism.

Do you think that any of the North African and Middle East nations _[like al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)]_ want to declare any armed group in their territory that presents themselves as fighting for independence and self-determination to be legal?

Do you think that:

◈  The UK wants to say the following are legitimate?

Real Irish Republican Army: 

Orange Volunteers: 

Real Ulster Freedom Fighters:
◈  The Turish Republic wants to say the following are legitimate?

Kurdistan Communities Union
Kurdistan Freedom Hawks
◈  The Thailand wants to say the following are legitimate?

Barisan Revolusi Nasional
Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Patani
Islamic Liberation Front of Patani
◈  The Russian Fededration wants to say the following are legitimate?

 Caucasus Emirate

Kataib al-Khoul
Arab Mujahideen in Chechnya
Riyad-us Saliheen Brigade of Martyrs

 Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant – Caucasus Province
◈  India wants to say the following are legitimate?

Communist Party of India 

Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
Hizbul Mujahideen
Indian Mujahideen
Khalistan Commando Force
Khalistan Zindabad Force
Lashkar-e-Taiba
Maoist Communist Party of Manipur
United Jihad Council 

United Liberation Front of Assam
◈  France wants to say the following are legitimate?

Comité Régional d'Action Viticole 

National Liberation Front of Corsica 
◈  Egypt wants to say the following are legitimate?

Al Furqan Brigades
Al-Qaeda in Sinai Peninsula
Ansar al-Sharia
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
The Hasm Movement
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
Soldiers of Egypt
◈  Columbia wants to say the following are legitimate?

The Black Eagles 

Autodefensas Gaitanistas de Colombia 

Indigenous Revolutionary Armed Forces of the Pacific 

National Liberation Army
Popular Liberation Army 

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia
FARC dissidents 
I could go on, but I think you see the point.  Every one of these entities _(and there are many - many more)_ is no different in the political context that that of the various Arab Palestinian organizations.  If the UN declares the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Movments as Internationally legitimate as an armed liberation organization, then under the "equal under the law" concept, all these are just as legitimate.  _(That is not going to happen.)_

And many of these entities mentioned here are just as diabolical as the HoAP.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> **







Israel targets Islamic Jihad leader, sending message to Iran

  Your " point?"


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I'll say this just once*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any day is a good day to kill a terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295437
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have no special dispensation to conduct acts of terrorism.
> 
> Do you think that any of the North African and Middle East nations _[like al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)]_ want to declare any armed group in their territory that presents themselves as fighting for independence and self-determination to be legal?
> 
> Do you think that:
> 
> ◈  The UK wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Real Irish Republican Army:
> 
> Orange Volunteers:
> 
> Real Ulster Freedom Fighters:
> ◈  The Turish Republic wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Kurdistan Communities Union
> Kurdistan Freedom Hawks
> ◈  The Thailand wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Barisan Revolusi Nasional
> Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Patani
> Islamic Liberation Front of Patani
> ◈  The Russian Fededration wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Caucasus Emirate
> 
> Kataib al-Khoul
> Arab Mujahideen in Chechnya
> Riyad-us Saliheen Brigade of Martyrs
> 
> Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant – Caucasus Province
> ◈  India wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Communist Party of India
> 
> Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
> Hizbul Mujahideen
> Indian Mujahideen
> Khalistan Commando Force
> Khalistan Zindabad Force
> Lashkar-e-Taiba
> Maoist Communist Party of Manipur
> United Jihad Council
> 
> United Liberation Front of Assam
> ◈  France wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Comité Régional d'Action Viticole
> 
> National Liberation Front of Corsica
> ◈  Egypt wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Al Furqan Brigades
> Al-Qaeda in Sinai Peninsula
> Ansar al-Sharia
> Egyptian Islamic Jihad
> The Hasm Movement
> Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
> Soldiers of Egypt
> ◈  Columbia wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> The Black Eagles
> 
> Autodefensas Gaitanistas de Colombia
> 
> Indigenous Revolutionary Armed Forces of the Pacific
> 
> National Liberation Army
> Popular Liberation Army
> 
> Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia
> FARC dissidents
> I could go on, but I think you see the point.  Every one of these entities _(and there are many - many more)_ is no different in the political context that that of the various Arab Palestinian organizations.  If the UN declares the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Movments as Internationally legitimate as an armed liberation organization, then under the "equal under the law" concept, all these are just as legitimate.  _(That is not going to happen.)_
> 
> And many of these entities mentioned here are just as diabolical as the HoAP.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Do you mean that the Palestinians cannot fight for their rights?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I'll say this just once*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians fire rockets after Israel assassinates Islamic Jihad commander in Gaza*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Any day is a good day to kill a terrorist.
> 
> 
> 
> Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295437
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have no special dispensation to conduct acts of terrorism.
> 
> Do you think that any of the North African and Middle East nations _[like al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM)]_ want to declare any armed group in their territory that presents themselves as fighting for independence and self-determination to be legal?
> 
> Do you think that:
> 
> ◈  The UK wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Real Irish Republican Army:
> 
> Orange Volunteers:
> 
> Real Ulster Freedom Fighters:
> ◈  The Turish Republic wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Kurdistan Communities Union
> Kurdistan Freedom Hawks
> ◈  The Thailand wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Barisan Revolusi Nasional
> Gerakan Mujahidin Islam Patani
> Islamic Liberation Front of Patani
> ◈  The Russian Fededration wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Caucasus Emirate
> 
> Kataib al-Khoul
> Arab Mujahideen in Chechnya
> Riyad-us Saliheen Brigade of Martyrs
> 
> Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant – Caucasus Province
> ◈  India wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Communist Party of India
> 
> Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
> Hizbul Mujahideen
> Indian Mujahideen
> Khalistan Commando Force
> Khalistan Zindabad Force
> Lashkar-e-Taiba
> Maoist Communist Party of Manipur
> United Jihad Council
> 
> United Liberation Front of Assam
> ◈  France wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Comité Régional d'Action Viticole
> 
> National Liberation Front of Corsica
> ◈  Egypt wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> Al Furqan Brigades
> Al-Qaeda in Sinai Peninsula
> Ansar al-Sharia
> Egyptian Islamic Jihad
> The Hasm Movement
> Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
> Soldiers of Egypt
> ◈  Columbia wants to say the following are legitimate?
> 
> The Black Eagles
> 
> Autodefensas Gaitanistas de Colombia
> 
> Indigenous Revolutionary Armed Forces of the Pacific
> 
> National Liberation Army
> Popular Liberation Army
> 
> Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia
> FARC dissidents
> I could go on, but I think you see the point.  Every one of these entities _(and there are many - many more)_ is no different in the political context that that of the various Arab Palestinian organizations.  If the UN declares the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) Movments as Internationally legitimate as an armed liberation organization, then under the "equal under the law" concept, all these are just as legitimate.  _(That is not going to happen.)_
> 
> And many of these entities mentioned here are just as diabolical as the HoAP.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean that the Palestinians cannot fight for their rights?
Click to expand...




 According to Tinmore, these are their " rights"  




 GASP !!!  Do I see HASIDIC Jews praying at the Western Wall?  And these are THEIR RIGHTS


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

It depends on what you mean by "fight."



P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean that the Palestinians cannot fight for their rights?


*(COMMENT)*

◈  *IF* you claim to follow under International Law → *THEN* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) must _(at a minimum but not limited to)_ adhere to these criteria.

✦  The prohibition against actions which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.
✦  Israeli citizens must not be subject to direct attack.
✦  The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks contained in Additional Protocols I and II.
✦  The prohibition of against “acts or the use of threats of violence → the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.”
✦  The prohibition against locating HoAP activities within or near densely populated areas.
✦  The prohibition against allowing civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP activities.
✦  The prohibition against “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or HoAP activities immune from military operations.”
✦  The prohibition of against acts of espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the Israeli installations of the Occupying Power.​
It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from taking certain actions, the commission of which are punishable under law.

It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the commission of certain Criminal Acts directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population _(and other non-participation persons)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a Israeli population and to compel the government  to do _(or to abstain from doing_) some act that furthers the criminal objective.

It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the intentional use of explosive or incendiary weapon or device that are designed, or have the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage.

*IF* the HoAP can achieve their objective without violating any of the Internationally adopted legal restraints, *THEN* let it be done. Understanding of course that I cannot reproduce every single law or prohibition here that is contained in the International Law library.  I've just highlighted a few which the HoAP most often run afoul.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It depends on what you mean by "fight."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the Palestinians cannot fight for their rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  *IF* you claim to follow under International Law → *THEN* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) must _(at a minimum but not limited to)_ adhere to these criteria.
> 
> ✦  The prohibition against actions which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Israeli citizens must not be subject to direct attack.
> ✦  The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks contained in Additional Protocols I and II.
> ✦  The prohibition of against “acts or the use of threats of violence → the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.”
> ✦  The prohibition against locating HoAP activities within or near densely populated areas.
> ✦  The prohibition against allowing civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP activities.
> ✦  The prohibition against “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or HoAP activities immune from military operations.”
> ✦  The prohibition of against acts of espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the Israeli installations of the Occupying Power.​
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from taking certain actions, the commission of which are punishable under law.
> 
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the commission of certain Criminal Acts directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population _(and other non-participation persons)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a Israeli population and to compel the government  to do _(or to abstain from doing_) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the intentional use of explosive or incendiary weapon or device that are designed, or have the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage.
> 
> *IF* the HoAP can achieve their objective without violating any of the Internationally adopted legal restraints, *THEN* let it be done. Understanding of course that I cannot reproduce every single law or prohibition here that is contained in the International Law library.  I've just highlighted a few which the HoAP most often run afoul.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. Israel's violation of international law vastly outnumber those of the Palestinians. I never hear you comment on that.

You are just one sided.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> It depends on what you mean by "fight."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the Palestinians cannot fight for their rights?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  *IF* you claim to follow under International Law → *THEN* the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) must _(at a minimum but not limited to)_ adhere to these criteria.
> 
> ✦  The prohibition against actions which are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Israeli citizens must not be subject to direct attack.
> ✦  The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks contained in Additional Protocols I and II.
> ✦  The prohibition of against “acts or the use of threats of violence → the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.”
> ✦  The prohibition against locating HoAP activities within or near densely populated areas.
> ✦  The prohibition against allowing civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of HoAP activities.
> ✦  The prohibition against “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or HoAP activities immune from military operations.”
> ✦  The prohibition of against acts of espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the Israeli installations of the Occupying Power.​
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from taking certain actions, the commission of which are punishable under law.
> 
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the commission of certain Criminal Acts directed against Israel with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the Israeli civilian population _(and other non-participation persons)_, the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a Israeli population and to compel the government  to do _(or to abstain from doing_) some act that furthers the criminal objective.
> 
> It is NOT the case that there is a blanket International Law prohibiting the HoAP from fighting for "rights;" but rather that the HoAP are prohibited from the intentional use of explosive or incendiary weapon or device that are designed, or have the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage.
> 
> *IF* the HoAP can achieve their objective without violating any of the Internationally adopted legal restraints, *THEN* let it be done. Understanding of course that I cannot reproduce every single law or prohibition here that is contained in the International Law library.  I've just highlighted a few which the HoAP most often run afoul.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. Israel's violation of international law vastly outnumber those of the Palestinians. I never hear you comment on that.
> 
> You are just one sided.
Click to expand...


And you’re not ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Awda kicks off its Annual Rally to Support Palestine and Protest AIPAC on the evening of Donald Trump’s impeachment! See you on March 1st, 2020 in front of the White House


----------



## P F Tinmore

Pull out your $50 bill (American currency) and tell me why the map of #Palestine is on the right side of the note with the key that Palestinians symbolize for the Right of Return right below it. Is this a code or what? Has anyone else noticed this? Very strange discovery.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Al-Awda kicks off its Annual Rally to Support Palestine and Protest AIPAC on the evening of Donald Trump’s impeachment! See you on March 1st, 2020 in front of the White House



YAWN...   Keep talking. Convince yourself it will happen


----------



## toastman

The Palestinians failed at destroying Israel with conventional warfare. They failed with terrorism. They failed with BDS. And they will fail with any other method they use to try and destroy Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘Israel’ to bulldoze Hebron market and construct illegal settlement instead*

*



*

'Israel' to bulldoze Hebron market and construct illegal settlement instead - Quds News Network


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*

*



*

The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.

Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.

*"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*


On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Poetry as Resistance: Islamic University Gaza’s Poetry Festival Five Years After Being Leveled by Israeli Bombs*

*



*

During the 2014 shelling, IUG, where Alareer has taught world literature and creative writing, was hit by several Israeli missiles. As he recalls, not only did buildings suffer damage, but because books, as well as other commodities, became scarce because of the consequent Israeli blockade. For Alareer, the challenge was to teach with very few resources while holding fast to IUG’s mission of promoting “open-mindedness, dialogues, and respect to all cultures and religions.”

*Poetry as Resistance: Islamic University Gaza’s Poetry Festival Five Years After Being Leveled by Israeli Bombs*


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
Click to expand...

Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.

Keep posting. Let people know who you are.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Occupation forces break into the house of Haji Mohamed Ibrahim near the military tower and arrest his grandson Ahmed Ibrahim Tamimi 13 years old


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, you are such the drama queen.



P F Tinmore said:


> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*​
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits a war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.


*(COMMENT)*

If any of us "(You) cheer," → it is because another "actual and demonstrated threat" has been eliminated.  It is one more threat _(not a potential threat, but a proven deadly threat)_ has been removed from the field.  It is because there is one less Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) hat could kill us.

As far as the "breaking the cease-fire" goes → anywhere the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata" is physically standing, that space becomes a legitimate military _(hostile command and control)_ target.  And the rules of International Law apply.

◈  _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; "but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives _(in this case, the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata")_.

◈  _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
The require is clear.  You either keep the high valued target away - or  - you remove the civilians away from the high valued target.  You cannot use the "status of father and parent" to shield the value of the target.

It is not a war crime of any sort, as long as the target has a direct military value established.

*(OBSERVATION)*

Such allegations of "war crime" become diminished on face value when, after so many times, this tactic is used over and over again.

Since the HoAP has established that in their mind, indiscriminate fires and direct targeting of civilians is an established policy of the HoAP, I hardly find it credible that the "war Crimes Complaint" is anything other than frivolous.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
Click to expand...

lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
Click to expand...

Uhhh Tinmore, Palestinians are the ones who cheer and hand out candy whenever an Israeli is murdered.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, you are such the drama queen.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*​
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits a war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> If any of us "(You) cheer," → it is because another "actual and demonstrated threat" has been eliminated.  It is one more threat _(not a potential threat, but a proven deadly threat)_ has been removed from the field.  It is because there is one less Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) hat could kill us.
> 
> As far as the "breaking the cease-fire" goes → anywhere the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata" is physically standing, that space becomes a legitimate military _(hostile command and control)_ target.  And the rules of International Law apply.
> 
> ◈  _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; "but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives _(in this case, the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata")_.
> 
> ◈  _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​
> The require is clear.  You either keep the high valued target away - or  - you remove the civilians away from the high valued target.  You cannot use the "status of father and parent" to shield the value of the target.
> 
> It is not a war crime of any sort, as long as the target has a direct military value established.
> 
> *(OBSERVATION)*
> 
> Such allegations of "war crime" become diminished on face value when, after so many times, this tactic is used over and over again.
> 
> Since the HoAP has established that in their mind, indiscriminate fires and direct targeting of civilians is an established policy of the HoAP, I hardly find it credible that the "war Crimes Complaint" is anything other than frivolous.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; "but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives _(in this case, the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata")_.


Civilians can only be considered combatants when they are *actively *engaged in armed conflict. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids does not make them human shields.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.
Click to expand...




toomuchtime_ said:


> lol The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime,


How so?


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

How many times did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?  Targeting civilian populations is a war crime, and the rockets are aimed at Israeli civilians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘They Killed My Parents on My Birthday’: Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The most recent Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip began on November 12, when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire by assassinating senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata and his wife Asma Mohammed as they slept in their home.
> 
> Since then, I interviewed many Palestinians who had family members killed or injured in the Israeli attack. They spoke with deep pain and sorrow.
> 
> *"They Killed My Parents on My Birthday": Daughter of Assassinated Palestinian Leader Speaks Out (PHOTOS & VIDEO)*
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?  Targeting civilian populations is a war crime, and the rockets are aimed at Israeli civilians.
Click to expand...

Civilians is not the term. Protected persons is the term. Look up protested persons in occupation law.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?  Targeting civilian populations is a war crime, and the rockets are aimed at Israeli civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Civilians is not the term. Protected persons is the term. Look up protested persons in occupation law.
Click to expand...

No, Israeli civilians have been targeted thousands and thousands of time by the rockets of Palestinian terrorists and each rocket is a war crime.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for heaven's sake!  This is just subterfuge and misinformation.

You need to examine • Article 43(2) of Additional Protocol One (AP1) •, and • Article 4 to the Third Geneva Convention • _(for all intent and purposes they're the same)_. 

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

 (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

 (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

 (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

 (c) that of carrying arms openly;

 (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.​
The organizational structure of both the State-sponsored terrorists and that of Arab Palestinian paramilitary organizations are well known and openly published.  And the intent of these activities is that of "*Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."  *This includes the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ _(Customary and IHL)_ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; "but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives _(in this case, the "senior Islamic Jihad commander Bahaa Abu al-Ata")_.
> 
> 
> 
> Civilians can only be considered combatants when they are *actively *engaged in armed conflict. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids does not make them human shields.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It must also be understood is the concept of achieving "direct military advantage."  The neutralization of Senior Islamic Jihadists is a direct military advantage.

Collateral or incidental damage from attacks on lawful targets is acceptable in cases of the anticipation of a direct military advantage.   You cannot be a public and open enemy, which incites violence and hostilities, by day and be a non-targetable entity at night.  Night combat is not a War Crime.  And the proximity of non-combatants is at the discretion of the Hostile Arab Palestinian. 

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Civilians can only be considered combatants when they are *actively *engaged in armed conflict. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids does not make them human shields.



More of your vile weasel law which pretends that Jews are always legitimate targets, even babies, and that Arabs are never legitimate targets, even when they are military objectives.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> On, no, not on her birthday.  Israel should have waited until the next day before neutralizing this terrorist scum.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel breaks the ceasefire and you cheer. Israel commits war crime and you cheer.
> 
> Keep posting. Let people know who you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime, every payment to a Palestinians terrorist for killing a Jew is a war crime.  For at least 100 years Palestinians have done nothing but commit war crimes against Jews.  It is ridiculous to have a ceasefire with a gang of terrorists like Hamas.  Not only are they wholly committed to killing Jews but they are torturing the people of Gaza.  You support the conflict that gets Palestinians killed and keeps them impoverished and then you pretend to care about them.  You are their worst enemy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol The war crimes are being committed by the Palestinians, thousands and thousands of them, every rocket fired into Israel is a war crime,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many times did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby?  Targeting civilian populations is a war crime, and the rockets are aimed at Israeli civilians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Civilians is not the term. Protected persons is the term. Look up protested persons in occupation law.
Click to expand...


Why don’t you post your proof instead of telling him to look it up.
Ya. That’s what I thought..


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  Posting #13842 (toomuchtime) used the term "civilian" properly.  Posting #13843 (P F Tinmore) is incorrect.  

Well, there is a slight difference between a "civilian" and that of a "Protected Person."   Concerning Postings #13842 (toomuchtime*_*) and #13843 (P F Tinmore) the wording of Article 8(1)(b)(i), Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court is inclusive:

Intentionally directing attacks against the "*civilian" population as such or against individual "civilians"* not taking direct part in hostilities;​
There is two different reference here that must be considered.  The first reference (above) defines the War Crime itself for prosecutorial purposes.  The second reference (below) defines the source content of the application of the prohibition under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (C-IHL).

Under the International Law of Occupation (The Occupation is defined by Article 42 - Hague Regulation of 1907) is a sub-set of the IHL of the Geneva Conventions and the applicable Additional Protocols.

SEE:  A series of questions and answers by the ICRC's legal team on what defines occupation, the laws that apply, how people are protected, and the ICRC's role.​✦  *Rule 5*. Civilians are persons who are not members of the armed forces. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.  ✦

_The definition of civilians as persons who are not members of the armed forces is set forth in Article 50 of Additional Protocol I, to which no reservations have been made. It is also contained in numerous military manuals. It is reflected in reported practice. This practice includes that of States not, or not at the time, party to Additional Protocol I._​


P F Tinmore said:


> Civilians are not the term. Protected persons are the term. Look up protested persons in occupation law.


*(REFERENCE)*
•  *Article 50 → Additional Protocol I   -- Definition of civilians and the civilian population* •

 1. A civilian is any person who does not belong to one of the categories of persons referred to in Article 4 A (1), (2), (3) and (6)  of the Third Convention and in Article 43 [ Link ]  of this Protocol. *In case of doubt, whether a person is a civilian, that person shall be considered to be a civilian.*

 2. The civilian population comprises all persons who are civilians.

 3. The presence within the civilian population of individuals who do not come within the definition of civilians does not deprive the population of its civilian character.​*(COMMENT)*

As for the comment in Posting #13843 (P F Tinmore), this is a basic and fundamental fact.  It requires no interpretation.  The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are combatants as defined by • Article 43(2) of Additional Protocol One (AP1) •, and • Article 4 to the Third Geneva Convention • as explained in Posting #13846 (RoccoR).  The only Gray Area in the International Criminal Code where Article 8 of the Statute, war crimes against child soldiers include conscripting or enlisting children _under the age of 15 years_, or using them to participate actively in hostilities.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Dominance in the Middle East, Rashid Khalidi*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

That is different than what I have read elsewhere.

My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.

Also:

Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.


----------



## P F Tinmore

My son Izzat and his fiancé Bissan’s Katb Ktab 
(Islamic marriage ceremony) tonight. Mabrook!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.


Got a link ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
Click to expand...

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




“ Illegal Israel?”   
  Do us all a big favor; Keep posting your frustrations


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
Click to expand...





Gaza–Israel conflict - Wikipedia


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza–Israel conflict - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


   They initiate violence; they face the consequences


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember These Children 2014 Memorial
Click to expand...


Not for that. You posted "That is different than what I have read elsewhere".

So, where did you read this? Link ?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today
⁜→  toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

There is actually no law pertaining to "cease-fires." 

Customarily, agreements are generally honored in cases existing international lines of demarcation, armistice lines, international boundaries, territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers borders.

What you have most often seen between the Israelis and the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) special regimes.  They are special because it is an agreement between a legitimate State Government (Israel) and a known criminal- terrorist activity _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_. 



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Israel and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad reached a cease-fire agreement.  However, contracts and agreements in which a party to the agreement is also a designated terrorist activity.

YOU don't have to worry about breaking a ceasefire with a Criminal/Terrorist activity that holds peace hostage.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is actually no law pertaining to "cease-fires."
> 
> Customarily, agreements are generally honored in cases existing international lines of demarcation, armistice lines, international boundaries, territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers borders.
> 
> What you have most often seen between the Israelis and the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) special regimes.  They are special because it is an agreement between a legitimate State Government (Israel) and a known criminal- terrorist activity _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad reached a cease-fire agreement.  However, contracts and agreements in which a party to the agreement is also a designated terrorist activity.
> 
> YOU don't have to worry about breaking a ceasefire with a Criminal/Terrorist activity that holds peace hostage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?

Why would Israel agree to ceasefires only to violate them? Oh, that's right, it is Israel. Israel has no honor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine Tensions: Big support at conference for Palestinian women*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel-Palestine Tensions: West Bank residents defy Israeli settlers*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians: If Israel left the West Bank and Gaza, would there be peace with Israel?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Dana Rizek - A Soul's Odyssey 'Letters to Palestine'*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>







Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas pledges: There will be no Israelis in Palestine
Click to expand...







PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall


KEEP POSTING


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas*


ANKARA, (PIC)

The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Thursday refuted Israeli allegations saying its territory was used for acts against Israel or any other country, stressing that the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, is not a terror group.

"The majority of the international community considers Hamas not as a terrorist organization but as a political reality which has won the elections in Gaza in 2006," the ministry said on Twitter.

It went on saying that the UN General Assembly had rejected calling Palestine's Hamas as a terrorist organization in 2018 and various countries has friendly ties with Hamas at different levels.

  Read more at  
Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You have a lot of nerve to suggest that Israel is without honor, but that the Hostile Arab Palestinians is honorable.



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?


*(COMMENT)*

Hmmm, *IF* you mean, do I call it for what it is?* (RHETORICAL) * *THEN*, maybe the certain Israelis and I think along similar lines.  I support events that unfold → as I see and understand them in the greater context of the practical world.

I do not pretend to know who agreed to what in the crafting of the ceasefire.  So you have me at a disadvantage.

But it is seldom that a ceasefire covers the escape and evasion of criminals and conspirators seeking to use the ceasefire as a shield form neutralization and/or prosecution.  Baha Abu al-Ata, was the leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) (a non-governmental) terrorism organization listed _(in the Official Journal of the EU)_  by the European Union (EU) (currently 27 excluding the UK).

By International Convention (Article 4b) included in the Human Rights Law, each State Party _(to the convention)_(including Israel) shall adopt such measures as may be necessary to make those offenses punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account the grave nature of those offenses.  AND Israel should take such measures [Article 6(1a)] as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses when committed in the territory of the Jewish State.

✪→ *WHAT* clause, in the Ceasefire, shields the PIJ _(which is an radical Islamist terrorist group with Iran)_ from  being a major contributor, from the detection, exploitation and neutralization by the Jewish State?

✪→  The stated policy of the PIJ is to eventually assume the entirety of the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River—including Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, and consolidate it under one Islamic State Government under _Sharia (Islamic law)_.

✪→  This is a critical concept in the The group’s ideology is made clear in its “Manifesto of the Islamic Jihad in Palestine.” Much like the Charter of the Palestinian Liberation Organization or the Covent of HAMAS, the PIJ mantra is: “the Jihad solution and the martyrdom style as the only choice for liberation” and rejects “any peaceful solution to the Palestinian cause.”​


P F Tinmore said:


> Why would Israel agree to ceasefires only to violate them? Oh, that's right, it is Israel. Israel has no honor.


*(COMMENT)*

Do the ceasefires include the criminal organization and terrorist group, known as the PIJ, as a party to the ceasefire?

This is called achieving a "Military Advantage."   "Jihad is the only way," a page from the PIJ playbook.  The PIJ does not any value in attempting to settlement through the effort of "peaceful means."  The PIJ represents an actual and active threat to the peace and security of the Jewish State.

ANY DAY IS A GOOD DAY TO KILL A TERRORIST...




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You have a lot of nerve to suggest that Israel is without honor, but that the Hostile Arab Palestinians is honorable.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Hmmm, *IF* you mean, do I call it for what it is?* (RHETORICAL) * *THEN*, maybe the certain Israelis and I think along similar lines.  I support events that unfold → as I see and understand them in the greater context of the practical world.
> 
> I do not pretend to know who agreed to what in the crafting of the ceasefire.  So you have me at a disadvantage.
> 
> But it is seldom that a ceasefire covers the escape and evasion of criminals and conspirators seeking to use the ceasefire as a shield form neutralization and/or prosecution.  Baha Abu al-Ata, was the leader of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) (a non-governmental) terrorism organization listed _(in the Official Journal of the EU)_  by the European Union (EU) (currently 27 excluding the UK).
> 
> By International Convention (Article 4b) included in the Human Rights Law, each State Party _(to the convention)_(including Israel) shall adopt such measures as may be necessary to make those offenses punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account the grave nature of those offenses.  AND Israel should take such measures [Article 6(1a)] as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses when committed in the territory of the Jewish State.
> 
> ✪→ *WHAT* clause, in the Ceasefire, shields the PIJ _(which is an radical Islamist terrorist group with Iran)_ from  being a major contributor, from the detection, exploitation and neutralization by the Jewish State?
> 
> ✪→  The stated policy of the PIJ is to eventually assume the entirety of the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River—including Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, and consolidate it under one Islamic State Government under _Sharia (Islamic law)_.
> 
> ✪→  This is a critical concept in the The group’s ideology is made clear in its “Manifesto of the Islamic Jihad in Palestine.” Much like the Charter of the Palestinian Liberation Organization or the Covent of HAMAS, the PIJ mantra is: “the Jihad solution and the martyrdom style as the only choice for liberation” and rejects “any peaceful solution to the Palestinian cause.”​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would Israel agree to ceasefires only to violate them? Oh, that's right, it is Israel. Israel has no honor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Do the ceasefires include the criminal organization and terrorist group as a party to the ceasefire?
> 
> This is called achieving a "Military Advantage."   "Jihad is the only way," a page from the PIJ playbook.  The PIJ does not any value in attempting to settlement through the effort of "peaceful means."  The PIJ represents an actual and active threat to the peace and security of the Jewish State.
> 
> ANY DAY IS A GOOD DAY TO KILL A TERRORIST...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh my, so much juvenile name calling.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces kidnapped Shatha Hasan, a Birzeit University student, from her home in Ramallah at dawn today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian mothers confront Israeli soldiers during First Intifada protests in #Gaza, 1987.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, when you get more substantial information _(basic interrogatives)_ please get back with us.

The Israelis do not just initiate "kidnap operations" without cause - and - certainly don't apprehend people without some reason.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces kidnapped Shatha Hasan, a Birzeit University student, from her home in Ramallah at dawn today.


*(COMMENT)*

◈  It could be that an unnamed controlled "informat" led to information promting to the arrest and detention of Shatha Hasan.

◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan is a "control asset" or "confidential police informant" and needed to be picked-up for safety reasons because she was compromised.

◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was a material witnesses whose evidence is likely to be sufficiently important to lead to the arrest and conviction of some other serious criminal.

◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was implicated in something serious and became somehow connected or entangled to events more serious.

◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by some netharious entity and need to be extracted from harm.

◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by one of the police, security, or intelligence activities and the arrest and apprehension was needed to establish her _bonafide_.​
Here are a half dozen "other" reasons why Shatha Hasan was given such attention, other than the sinister purposes you are implying.  Get back to us when you have something more concrete.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, when you get more substantial information _(basic interrogatives)_ please get back with us.
> 
> The Israelis do not just initiate "kidnap operations" without cause - and - certainly don't apprehend people without some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces kidnapped Shatha Hasan, a Birzeit University student, from her home in Ramallah at dawn today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  It could be that an unnamed controlled "informat" led to information promting to the arrest and detention of Shatha Hasan.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan is a "control asset" or "confidential police informant" and needed to be picked-up for safety reasons because she was compromised.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was a material witnesses whose evidence is likely to be sufficiently important to lead to the arrest and conviction of some other serious criminal.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was implicated in something serious and became somehow connected or entangled to events more serious.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by some netharious entity and need to be extracted from harm.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by one of the police, security, or intelligence activities and the arrest and apprehension was needed to establish her _bonafide_.​
> Here are a half dozen "other" reasons why Shatha Hasan was given such attention, other than the sinister purposes you are implying.  Get back to us when you have something more concrete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, Shatha Hasan, a student at Birzeit University and the president of the student council, was also arrested last week at her family home in Ramallah.  Hasan’s detention has been extended until next Tuesday, 24 December.

JFJFP

Meanwhile, an Israeli court has transferred Shatha Hasan, a 20-year-old Birzeit University student, arrested earlier this week, to administrative detention for three months.

Administrative detention is an Israeli policy that allows the army to withhold Palestinians in custody without charge or trial for different periods of time on the basis of secret information that prisoners or their lawyers are not allowed to get a hold of.

Israel arrests 5 Palestinians in West Bank - Xinhua | English.news.cn

"without charge or trial" means no crime.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, when you get more substantial information _(basic interrogatives)_ please get back with us.
> 
> The Israelis do not just initiate "kidnap operations" without cause - and - certainly don't apprehend people without some reason.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli occupation forces kidnapped Shatha Hasan, a Birzeit University student, from her home in Ramallah at dawn today.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ◈  It could be that an unnamed controlled "informat" led to information promting to the arrest and detention of Shatha Hasan.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan is a "control asset" or "confidential police informant" and needed to be picked-up for safety reasons because she was compromised.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was a material witnesses whose evidence is likely to be sufficiently important to lead to the arrest and conviction of some other serious criminal.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was implicated in something serious and became somehow connected or entangled to events more serious.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by some netharious entity and need to be extracted from harm.
> 
> ◈  It could be that Shatha Hasan was being recruited by one of the police, security, or intelligence activities and the arrest and apprehension was needed to establish her _bonafide_.​
> Here are a half dozen "other" reasons why Shatha Hasan was given such attention, other than the sinister purposes you are implying.  Get back to us when you have something more concrete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meanwhile, Shatha Hasan, a student at Birzeit University and the president of the student council, was also arrested last week at her family home in Ramallah.  Hasan’s detention has been extended until next Tuesday, 24 December.
> 
> JFJFP
> 
> Meanwhile, an Israeli court has transferred Shatha Hasan, a 20-year-old Birzeit University student, arrested earlier this week, to administrative detention for three months.
> 
> Administrative detention is an Israeli policy that allows the army to withhold Palestinians in custody without charge or trial for different periods of time on the basis of secret information that prisoners or their lawyers are not allowed to get a hold of.
> 
> Israel arrests 5 Palestinians in West Bank - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> "without charge or trial" means no crime.
Click to expand...


What it means is distancing a suspect during an investigation.

If she's the president of the students association, as your source says - then she's the one who organized the Nazi salute parade during celebrations in the university last week.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas*
> 
> 
> ANKARA, (PIC)
> 
> The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Thursday refuted Israeli allegations saying its territory was used for acts against Israel or any other country, stressing that the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, is not a terror group.
> 
> "The majority of the international community considers Hamas not as a terrorist organization but as a political reality which has won the elections in Gaza in 2006," the ministry said on Twitter.
> 
> It went on saying that the UN General Assembly had rejected calling Palestine's Hamas as a terrorist organization in 2018 and various countries has friendly ties with Hamas at different levels.
> 
> Read more at
> Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center






Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas*
> 
> 
> ANKARA, (PIC)
> 
> The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Thursday refuted Israeli allegations saying its territory was used for acts against Israel or any other country, stressing that the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, is not a terror group.
> 
> "The majority of the international community considers Hamas not as a terrorist organization but as a political reality which has won the elections in Gaza in 2006," the ministry said on Twitter.
> 
> It went on saying that the UN General Assembly had rejected calling Palestine's Hamas as a terrorist organization in 2018 and various countries has friendly ties with Hamas at different levels.
> 
> Read more at
> Turkey foreign ministry rebuts Israeli claims over Hamas
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia
Click to expand...




   Turkey and others can " claim" whatever they want to but the facts don't lie
    There are people who deny the Holocaust happened ; Same mentality


In 2008, the Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, stated that Hamas would agree to accept a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, and to offer a long-term truce with Israel.[8] In contrast to this, Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar stated that any talk of the 1967 lines is "just a phase" until Hamas has a chance to "regain the land...even if we [Hamas] have to do so inch by inch."[9] Other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal, have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,"[10] and that "we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south."[11][12]

In 2009 interviews with the BBC, Tony Blair claimed that Hamas does not accept the existence of Israel and continues to pursue its objectives through terror and violence; Sir Jeremy Greenstock however argued that Hamas has not adopted its charter as part of its political program since it won the 2006 Palestinian legislative election.[13] Instead it has moved to a more secular stance.[14] In 2010, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[15] Hamas has moved away from its charter since it decided to run candidates for office.[14]

After a new charter was scheduled to be issued in May 2017, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement in which it accused Hamas of trying to fool the world and also asked it to stop its terror activities for a true change.[16]

The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[17][18] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine".[19] Mashal also stated that Hamas was ending its association with the Muslim Brotherhood.[17]


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

International positions on the nature of Hamas - Wikipedia

 As usual, Tinmore is lying


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> International positions on the nature of Hamas - Wikipedia
> 
> As usual, Tinmore is lying


Only a small number of countries designate Hamas terrorists. Most do not.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> International positions on the nature of Hamas - Wikipedia
> 
> As usual, Tinmore is lying
> 
> 
> 
> Only a small number of countries designate Hamas terrorists. Most do not.
Click to expand...


Is that why even Turkey hurried to deny of any Hamas activity on its ground?

Hamas is no different from ISIS savages,
same public execution of their own people, and  same goals to establish Caliphate.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is actually no law pertaining to "cease-fires."
> 
> Customarily, agreements are generally honored in cases existing international lines of demarcation, armistice lines, international boundaries, territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers borders.
> 
> What you have most often seen between the Israelis and the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) special regimes.  They are special because it is an agreement between a legitimate State Government (Israel) and a known criminal- terrorist activity _(Palestinian Islamic Jihad)_.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is different than what I have read elsewhere.
> 
> My concern is that Israel regularly violates ceasefires.
> 
> Also:
> 
> Israel bombs civilian homes killing women and children. Israel has done this many times. I can't think of another country that does this.
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad reached a cease-fire agreement.  However, contracts and agreements in which a party to the agreement is also a designated terrorist activity.
> 
> YOU don't have to worry about breaking a ceasefire with a Criminal/Terrorist activity that holds peace hostage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda crap?
> 
> Why would Israel agree to ceasefires only to violate them? Oh, that's right, it is Israel. Israel has no honor.
Click to expand...

Is that all you got after Rocco completely dismantled your so called ‘argument’...again!

Speaking of dishonour, Israelis aren’t the ones celebrating and handing out candy when Israelis are slaughtered:...


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians of all ages participate in an anti-occupation demonstration in #Gaza during the First Intifada, 1987.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF night raid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>







The Disquieting Treatment of Christians by the Palestinians


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning from Gaza







  Good Morning from E. Jerusalem


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> International positions on the nature of Hamas - Wikipedia
> 
> As usual, Tinmore is lying
> 
> 
> 
> Only a small number of countries designate Hamas terrorists. Most do not.
Click to expand...






https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ys-its-more-complicated-than-you-might-think/

…. I can see how many " friends" Hamas has


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*

*



*
*Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*

*Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians take part in a protest in Ramallah, central West Bank in support of Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli night raid.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Watch Israeli soldiers run away after being targeted with fireworks by the locals of Issawiyyeh in occupied Jerusalem. The Israeli army carries out daily night raids into the neighborhood in order to intimidate and arrest Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian human rights cannot be addressed without decolonisation*

The latest report by the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is a stark reminder of how Israel’s colonisation process in Palestine has created differences that are irreconcilable with the framework of human rights and international law. In particular, the CERD pointed out the discrimination inherent in Israel’s Nation-State Law, settlement expansion and the apartheid practices faced by Palestinians in the occupied Palestinian territories.

While the report points out issues that have long been debated, the CERD’s succinct observations enable readers to conceptualise the dynamics that make human rights violations a recurring cycle. Rather than a singular focus on separate issues, such as settlement expansion, the report looks at each strand of discrimination and how this affects the Palestinian population whose right to any recourse is severely restricted due to Israeli impunity.

Palestinian human rights cannot be addressed without decolonisation


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*





   As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.   



Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
Click to expand...


  Not on College Campuses; But one more example.  There are many more 

Anti-Semitic attacks in the US have doubled: ADL


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not on College Campuses; But one more example.  There are many more
> 
> Anti-Semitic attacks in the US have doubled: ADL
Click to expand...




  A friend sent me this.  Just one of the many examples that do not get media attentiom

Swastikas Found Spray-Painted At Long Island Holocaust Center In 2nd Vandalism Incident In 2 Weeks


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not on College Campuses; But one more example.  There are many more
> 
> Anti-Semitic attacks in the US have doubled: ADL
Click to expand...




    Tinmore sees nothing wrong with this; especially when it pertains to Israel not having the Right to Exist which has nothing to do with Trump's  executive order .Common sense would understand that a good reason that order was placed was to curtail the violence 


Trump’s anti-Semitism order raises tough issue of defining prejudice


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
Click to expand...

OK, so?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so?
Click to expand...



   Once more, you are a liar. The " criticism" has nothing to do with " free speech" and first Amendment Rights; It's the violence that occurs with it 
   You honestly see nothing wrong with Anti Semitic incidents here yet at the same time you claim that Criticism of Israel is Valid and Not Anti Semitic ?

    One more reason why I don't give a Hoot about the Palestinians.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




  In spite of " International Law" Jordan had it then and Israel has it now 

_Jerusalem_ was to be an international city under the 1947 UN Partition Plan. It was not included as a part of either the proposed Jewish or Arab states. During the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, the western part of _Jerusalem_ was captured by Israel, while East _Jerusalem_ (including the Old City) was captured by Jordan.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once more, you are a liar. The " criticism" has nothing to do with " free speech" and first Amendment Rights; It's the violence that occurs with it
> You honestly see nothing wrong with Anti Semitic incidents here yet at the same time you claim that Criticism of Israel is Valid and Not Anti Semitic ?
> 
> One more reason why I don't give a Hoot about the Palestinians.
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You honestly see nothing wrong with Anti Semitic incidents


None of my business.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Expert: Dima Khalidi, founder and director of Palestine Legal and Cooperating Counsel with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR).*
> 
> *Expert Q&A: Trump’s Executive Order on Campus Antisemitism | IMEU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual. Tinmore is lying.  His claim is that those who criticize Israel are being falsely accused of Antisemitism.
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Semitic incidents surge on college campuses after Pittsburgh synagogue shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once more, you are a liar. The " criticism" has nothing to do with " free speech" and first Amendment Rights; It's the violence that occurs with it
> You honestly see nothing wrong with Anti Semitic incidents here yet at the same time you claim that Criticism of Israel is Valid and Not Anti Semitic ?
> 
> One more reason why I don't give a Hoot about the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You honestly see nothing wrong with Anti Semitic incidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of my business.
Click to expand...


What happens in this Country is none of your business but what /happens almost 8000 Miles away is ? 
   If the Anti Semitism that is occurring in this Country is none of your business then 'Free Speech" about Israel shouldn't  .    Your claim is that there isn't any Anti Semitism; just First   Rights about Israel Re; the Palestinians
  Once more I have proven you to be a liar


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN..,,, No comment Re; Jerusalem being considered a INTERNATIONAL CITY for ALL
  That’s what he does what he doesn’t have a legitimate response


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

'Israel' targets journalism.. 'Israel' cannot poke out the eye of truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Mexico: Rep Tlaib meets deported veterans and families by border wall*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Mexico: Rep Tlaib meets deported veterans and families by border wall*
> 
> **






Scott Walker: Israel says its wall led to 90 percent reduction in terrorist attacks

Palestinians object to this?  Too bad


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



There are Christmas trees in Haifa too.  Christians are very happy in Israel.  My best friend teaches in an Armenian Christian school.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israeli artist beats Gaza rockets into Hanukkah lamps


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexico: Rep Tlaib meets deported veterans and families by border wall*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Walker: Israel says its wall led to 90 percent reduction in terrorist attacks
> 
> Palestinians object to this?  Too bad
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course.

*Hamas in call to end suicide bombings *

Hamas is to abandon its use of suicide bombers, who have killed almost 300 Israelis, in any future confrontations with Israel, its activists have told The Observer.

Yihiyeh Musa, a Hamas member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said Hamas had moved into a 'new era' which did not require suicide attacks.

'The suicide bombings happened in an exceptional period and they have now stopped,' he said. 'They came to an end as a change of belief.'

Hamas in call to end suicide bombings


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Activists from "Oldham Justice and Peace" called for closure of factory of "Elbit Ferranti" Israeli arms company in Manchester in protest against killing of Palestinians by drones produced by company.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexico: Rep Tlaib meets deported veterans and families by border wall*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Walker: Israel says its wall led to 90 percent reduction in terrorist attacks
> 
> Palestinians object to this?  Too bad
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Mexico: Rep Tlaib meets deported veterans and families by border wall*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Walker: Israel says its wall led to 90 percent reduction in terrorist attacks
> 
> Palestinians object to this?  Too bad
Click to expand...



Denying that the Wall has led to reduction in Terror Attacks?  Palestinian Bullshit of course


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Thank You for this You Tube Video, He practically stated that the Jewish people have no rights to Jerusalem which is why it will always be in control of the Israelis.

 He speaks about protecting his “ Religious Sites” yet the Jewish people have no rights to theirs if the Palestinians ever got control of E. Jerusalem?

   Only desperate bigoted moron would have posted the above


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Intentionally using journalist to shield an appropriate military response is a crime.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Free Khaled Ghannam 
  From the Israeli occupation prison
❌ Khaled Ghannam he's from Qalqilya city. Today he turns 12 years old. There won't be birthday celebrations in his cell. A birthday behind bars.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


>



I love how you post ' Israeli Bullshit' , when all you do is post Palestinian bullshit and propaganda.

I think you are a smart guy Tinmore. So even you should know that the situation with the Palestinians is a DIRECT result of Palestinian terrorism (i.e Both intifada's).


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love how you post ' Israeli Bullshit' , when all you do is post Palestinian bullshit and propaganda.
> 
> I think you are a smart guy Tinmore. So even you should know that the situation with the Palestinians is a DIRECT result of Palestinian terrorism (i.e Both intifada's).
Click to expand...


He’s just burning up at the thought of Israel existing. Sit back and enjoy it


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


Silly sound bytes,
what they really do is *pay Hamas up to $4,000 to move to Europe.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir on President Trump's Jerusalem declaration and the state of cinema in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

We don't need no steenking warrant.


----------



## P F Tinmore

They missed handcuffing a terrorist.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> They missed handcuffing a terrorist.



Just give him time.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Activists claim Jesus was a "Palestinian"

   Just one more attempt to deny any Jewish Connection to the Holy Land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Blessing your feed with pictures from the Palestinian village of Ein Karem, occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Blessing your feed with pictures from the Palestinian village of Ein Karem, occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Curator's Tour: Omar Kholeif on Emily Jacir: Europa*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jennifer Jajeh on the Los Angeles Run of "I Heart Hamas"*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Blessing your feed with pictures from the Palestinian village of Ein Karem, occupied Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Martyrdom of the Palestinian child , Abdel Raouf Isma'il Muhammad Salha,14 years old, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Jabaliya northern Gaza Strip few weeks ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Martyrdom of the young Palestinian man , Anwar Mohammed Qudeih, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Khuza'a, few weeks ago


----------



## P F Tinmore

Farm Wafare: Israel Uses Chemicals to Ruin Crops in Gaza .


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Martyrdom of the Palestinian child , Abdel Raouf Isma'il Muhammad Salha,14 years old, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Jabaliya northern Gaza Strip few weeks ago.





P F Tinmore said:


> Martyrdom of the young Palestinian man , Anwar Mohammed Qudeih, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Khuza'a, few weeks ago



It seems you're assuming that posting random pictures
makes these unsourced reports look any more credible.

And we both know why you hide the source.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli armed soldiers use force, to suppress the weekly anti-Israeli settlements protest in the village of al-Mughayer, near Ramallah in the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Such a display of pride in the #Palestinian culture! We bet everyone will want their own thobe now, and be like us.
#TweetYourThobe


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Jennifer Jajeh on the Los Angeles Run of "I Heart Hamas"*
> 
> **



I guess she's not the only ISIS cheerleader walking freely in the US.

**
*Hamas’ Anti-Semitism Publicly Exposed After Leader Urges Palestinians
to Kill ‘Every Jew’*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dareen Tatour, the Palestinian poet jailed for her work, is now appealing her conviction in an Israeli court


----------



## P F Tinmore

In the Gaza Strip, 97 percent of freshwater is unsuitable for human consumption


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Dareen Tatour, the Palestinian poet jailed for her work, is now appealing her conviction in an Israeli court



In what normal society declaring one's intent to become a martyr,
and incitement to murder on Facebook considered "poetry"?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martyrdom of the Palestinian child , Abdel Raouf Isma'il Muhammad Salha,14 years old, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Jabaliya northern Gaza Strip few weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Martyrdom of the young Palestinian man , Anwar Mohammed Qudeih, who died from wounds he sustained by Israeli fire east of Khuza'a, few weeks ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems you're assuming that posting random pictures
> makes these unsourced reports look any more credible.
> 
> And we both know why you hide the source.
Click to expand...


rylah is right.  Where are the sources for your baseless claims?  These could just be random ppl from off the street, for all we know.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>




In the meantime...
Strong Sept tourism as Israel heads for record year


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine In-depth: Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?*
> 
> **



Because Israel believes its enemies,
and this is the organization Khalida Jarrar leads:

*Bir Zeit university celebrates with a public Nazi salute*

This week marks the 52nd anniversary of the establishment of the PFLP.
At a parade held by members of the organization, masked men waving red flags of the organization marched with images of its founder George Habash and other terrorists, including Ahmed Sa'adat, who was the secretary general of the front who ordered the murder of Minister Rehavam Ze'evi.

The students condemned the PA and spoke of national unity, calling for terrorist activities and suicide attacks.

*Quds News*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Haidar Eid - Voices from Palestine: Resisting Racism and Apartheid*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Haidar Eid - Voices from Palestine: Resisting Racism and Apartheid*
> 
> **





In what universe putting Swastikas on your flag
while calling to murder all Jews is "resisting racism and apartheid"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

#TweetYourThobe
Here is a little geography lesson, this is a map that shows the different patterns of different regions in Palestine. 
Design by: Maya Amer


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> #TweetYourThobe
> Here is a little geography lesson, this is a map that shows the different patterns of different regions in Palestine.
> Design by: Maya Amer



Believe me, Israel has a much richer history than "Palestine."  Every nook and cranny is filled with Jewish history and stories from the Bible, from Masada (where the Jews fought the Romans),  to Sefad (where the Kabbalah started), to Jaffa (where the prophet Jonah sailed out from), etc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

#TweetYourThobe


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> #TweetYourThobe



Are you sure these aren't worn in any of the 21 other Arab countries?  As far as food is concerned, hummus and tahini and shwarma are eaten all over the Arab world.  Arabic is spoken all over the Arab world.  How do we know this clothing isn't any different?  It's not like they have anything unique about them.  In fact, the Palestinian Cultural Museum is empty to this day.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Blessing your feed with pictures from the Palestinian village of Ein Karem, occupied Jerusalem.








Coordinates: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


31°45′55″N 35°8′58″E

*'Ayn Karim

عين كارم*
Village







Ein Karem in the Jerusalem hills
*Ein Karem* (Hebrew: עֵין כֶּרֶם, lit. "Spring of the Vineyard", and Arabic- _ʿEin Kārem_, or in literary Arabic _ʿAyn Kārim_;[8] also *Ain Karem*, *Ein Kerem*) is an ancient village southwest of historical Jerusalem, and now a neighbourhood of the modern city, within Jerusalem District, Israel. It is the site of the Hadassah Medical Center


  Another Tinmore lie. He would have you believe this area was obtained during the 67 War, Nothing could be further from the truth.   I have worked at Hadassah Medical Center for a brief period of time and it is not in the " occupied Territory"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blessing your feed with pictures from the Palestinian village of Ein Karem, occupied Jerusalem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coordinates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 31°45′55″N 35°8′58″E
> 
> *'Ayn Karim
> 
> عين كارم*
> Village
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ein Karem in the Jerusalem hills
> *Ein Karem* (Hebrew: עֵין כֶּרֶם, lit. "Spring of the Vineyard", and Arabic- _ʿEin Kārem_, or in literary Arabic _ʿAyn Kārim_;[8] also *Ain Karem*, *Ein Kerem*) is an ancient village southwest of historical Jerusalem, and now a neighbourhood of the modern city, within Jerusalem District, Israel. It is the site of the Hadassah Medical Center
> 
> 
> Another Tinmore lie. He would have you believe this area was obtained during the 67 War, Nothing could be further from the truth.   I have worked at Hadassah Medical Center for a brief period of time and it is not in the " occupied Territory"
Click to expand...



  The Hospital itself was established in 1934

Jerusalem Photos :: Hadassah Hospital


----------



## P F Tinmore

Here are some posts from Palestinian women across the globe who are posting their traditional Palestinian thobes using the hashtag #TweetYourThobe in honor of U.S. Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, who is wearing her thobe today while being sworn into the 116th U.S. Congress.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces raid Palestinian school in Bethlehem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation razed Palestinian land near the occupied Hebron this morning.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Food Recipes That Serve Up Resistance *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Musakhan Chicken and Palestinian Flatbread at Dyafa — Cooking in America*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Meet The DC Falafel Shop Helping Refugees *

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*MUSAKHAN- NEW AND IMPROVED! Palestinian Chicken*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation razed Palestinian land near the occupied Hebron this morning.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Ministry of information: 19 Palestinian journalists are currently incarcerated in Israeli jails.


----------



## P F Tinmore

IPSC (Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign ) organize a vigil in solidarity with the Palestinian people commemorating apartheid Israel's attacks on Gaza and calling for an end to the illegal siege of Gaza and the occupation of Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrating Christmas in Bethlehem in 1920.
Merry Christmas


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



This coming from the poster who denies Anti Semitism?!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **



Really, a known provocateur and conspiracy theorist from Russia TV is your source?
We see this kind of attitude prevailing in all Palestinian propaganda, where vulgar blood libels are sold as "facts" and people are expected to believe these stories merely on their say so.

There's a reason why she leaves out that all poor conditions are concentrated in several neighborhoods in east of Gaza, while in the west live filthy rich oligarchs in their mansions, who beyond pocketing aid and sending their kids to fancy universities abroad, don't move a finger for their own people, and are quiet happy with the situation from which they profit.

And there's a reason why not once was there a mention of the declared national goals
of the govt in Gaza:

Genocide of Jews worldwide
Establishment of Caliphate by 2022

Because that would ruin the the entire victimhood circus, which has turned into a lucrative multi-billion industry serving the oligarchs in the govt of Gaza.

Palestinian propagandists clearly don't think too highly of the intellectual ability of their target audience.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really, a known provocateur and conspiracy theorist from Russia TV is your source?
> We see this kind of attitude prevailing in all Palestinian propaganda, where vulgar blood libels are sold as "facts" and people are expected to believe these stories merely on their say so.
> 
> There's a reason why she leaves out that all poor conditions are concentrated in several neighborhoods in east of Gaza, while in the west live filthy rich oligarchs in their mansions, who beyond pocketing aid and sending their kids to fancy universities abroad, don't move a finger for their own people, and are quiet happy with the situation from which they profit.
> 
> And there's a reason why not once was there a mention of the declared national goals
> of the govt in Gaza:
> 
> Genocide of Jews worldwide
> Establishment of Caliphate by 2022
> 
> Because that would ruin the the entire victimhood circus, which has turned into a lucrative multi-billion industry serving the oligarchs in the govt of Gaza.
> 
> Palestinian propagandists clearly don't think too highly of the intellectual ability of their target audience.
Click to expand...



My laugh of the day is when Tinmore posts about “ Right of Return “.   At this stage of the game I actually find those postings moronic


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



What sickos call their children "holy Jihad"??  


Ah I forgot... the ones who put on them suicide vests.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What sickos call their children "holy Jihad"??
> 
> 
> Ah I forgot... the ones who put on them suicide vests.
Click to expand...

Where did you get those 10 year old pictures? From an Israeli propaganda site?

The Palestinians have moved on.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Israeli occupation forces destroyed 67 schools in Gaza during its aggression against the enclave.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> The Israeli occupation forces destroyed 67 schools in Gaza during its aggression against the enclave.


These were the UNRWA schools in which Hamas and Islamic Jihad were storing missiles.


----------



## P F Tinmore

During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.



And of course, according to you, Israel just attacked Gaza for no reason at all, right?  I mean, it couldn't be because they wanted Gaza to stop launching missles at them.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.


They must have found this situation agreeable since they started two more wars with Israel with no rational hope of making any gains.  Why would people continue to start wars that bring them only devastation?  Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha, the first General Secretary of the Arab League, explains it:

"The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: Should the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or the third battle … or the final one… whereas one defeat will shatter the Jew's morale! Most desert Arabians take pleasure in fighting. I recall being tasked with mediating a truce in a desert war (in which I participated) that lasted for nine months…While en route to sign the truce, I was approached by some of my comrades in arms who told me: 'Shame on you! You are a man of the people, so how could you wish to end the war … How can we live without war?' This is because war gives the Bedouin a sense of happiness, bliss, and security that peace does not provide! …

Azzam's Genocidal Threat


----------



## toastman

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course, according to you, Israel just attacked Gaza for no reason at all, right?  I mean, it couldn't be because they wanted Gaza to stop launching missles at them.
Click to expand...


Tinmore will never answer a post like yours, because he knows he's wrong. All he has is Palestinian propaganda. Don't attack Israel, and you won't be attacked.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course, according to you, Israel just attacked Gaza for no reason at all, right?  I mean, it couldn't be because they wanted Gaza to stop launching missles at them.
Click to expand...

Of course not. Israel must defend its illegal settler colonial project.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> During the 2008 Israeli Aggression against Gaza, 3,400 Palestinian families had their homes completely destroyed, thus suffered long–term displacement.






List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel in 2008 - Wikipedia

  Once more Tinmore has proven himself to be a liar


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Epic Fail for Hamas Terrorists: Weekly Gaza Riots Fizzle Out

  I think they're getting it!  " Right of Return" is DOA


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Hamas: Arab Countries’ Warming Ties with Israel Equal ‘Treason’


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians dressed as Santa Claus hold signs as they take part in a protest in the West Bank city of Bethlehem.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
P F Tinmore, et al,

Remember:  The Government of Israel and Palestine Liberation Organization (1995) Agreed to the "Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. • The PLO is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people.  NOT the Palestinian Authority.

*EXCERPT From:  ARTICLE IV • Protocol Concerning Civil Affairs • The Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip:*
Special Provisions concerning Area C

In accordance with the DOP, in Area C, the Council will have functional jurisdiction with regard to the powers and responsibilities transferred pursuant to this Annex. This jurisdiction shall not apply to issues that will be negotiated in the permanent status negotiations, as set out in Article XVII, paragraph 1 of this Agreement.


The transfer of powers and responsibilities in Area C shall not affect Israel's continued authority to exercise its powers and responsibilities with regard to internal security and public order, as well as with regard to other powers and responsibilities not transferred.


The closure of areas or the imposing of other restrictions on the movement of persons or goods in Area C, required for the implementation of the powers and responsibilities transferred to the Council in accordance with this Annex _(such as for the prevention of the spreading of diseases)_, shall require prior Israeli consent.



P F Tinmore said:


> Of course not. Israel must defend its illegal settler colonial project.


*(COMMENT)*

You have no reason upon which, to base this opinion.

◈  Are you sure that the Palestinian Authority = the PLO - and is therefore the beneficiary of the Oslo Agreements?
--- or ---​◈  Are you assuming that the PLO is NOT the legitimate sole representative of the Palestinians?​
Area C is subject to the Permanent Status of Negotiations.  It is a special zone.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian children in the prisons of the Israeli occupation*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The father Ra’fat and his to sons Islam and Ameer were killed by Israeli attack in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

Union of British Teachers in their regular visit to see the situation in the village of Nabi Saleh


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian children in the prisons of the Israeli occupation*
> 
> **


The question here is, why do so many Palestinian parents train their children to be terrorists.  Is it just for the money they will get from the Martyrs Fund if their children manage to kill some Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians dressed as Santa Claus hold signs as they take part in a protest in the West Bank city of Bethlehem.






  HAMAS DRESSES UP LIKE SANTA !


Why Holy Land Christians are leaving Bethlehem, birthplace of Jesus: Pete Hegseth investigates


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





   Tinmore SWEARS that there is no Anti Semitism yet when specific  incidents are brought up he states it's " None of My Business"



'Open Season on Jews': Outrage Over Spike in NYC Hate Attacks Over Holidays




New York To Increase Police Presence After Anti-Semitic Attacks

   Small examples; Happening all over the Country.  There will be no response; there never is


Pittsburgh synagogue shooting - Wikipedia


https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/july/hamas-rsquo-anti-semitism-publicly-exposed-

  Anti Semitism?  Of course not


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore SWEARS that there is no Anti Semitism yet when specific  incidents are brought up he states it's " None of My Business"
> 
> 
> 
> 'Open Season on Jews': Outrage Over Spike in NYC Hate Attacks Over Holidays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York To Increase Police Presence After Anti-Semitic Attacks
> 
> Small examples; Happening all over the Country.  There will be no response; there never is
> 
> 
> Pittsburgh synagogue shooting - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/july/hamas-rsquo-anti-semitism-publicly-exposed-
> 
> Anti Semitism?  Of course not
Click to expand...

Wrong forum.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tinmore SWEARS that there is no Anti Semitism yet when specific  incidents are brought up he states it's " None of My Business"
> 
> 
> 
> 'Open Season on Jews': Outrage Over Spike in NYC Hate Attacks Over Holidays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York To Increase Police Presence After Anti-Semitic Attacks
> 
> Small examples; Happening all over the Country.  There will be no response; there never is
> 
> 
> Pittsburgh synagogue shooting - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/july/hamas-rsquo-anti-semitism-publicly-exposed-
> 
> Anti Semitism?  Of course not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong forum.
Click to expand...



Wrong forum?? You’re the one who keeps insisting Anti Semitism doesn’t exist on THIS forum yet when it’s proven you’re a liar it’s the “ Wrong Forum?”


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an excerpt:
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Anti Semitism?  Of course not​[/center]
Click to expand...

​*(COMMENT)*

It is a far cry from explaining a "nonviolent" propaganda tool which addresses methology.  It is something completely different from advocating violence.

But what I find interestion is the substance of the complaint and open misinformation:  *"lift the siege"  *It is NOT a siege and the Arab Palestinians are NOT victims.

The Gaza Strip was unilaterally vacated by the Israelis in 2005.  The complaint is all about Israel's attempts to seal its borders from the entry Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), who have no intention of living peacefully in Israel --- and that of → protecting Israeli territorial integrity or political independence.

✦  The HoAP has no justification for advocating the use of force against Israel.

✦  There is no universally accepted definition of the term “hate speech” in international law, despite its frequent use in both legal and non-legal settings. The term may be broadly characterised as applying to any expression which is abusive, insulting, intimidating, harassing and/or which incites violence, hatred or discrimination against groups identified by a specific set of characteristics1. At best, the term is legally imprecise.

※  All Members (of the United Nations) shall refrain in their international relations from the *threat or use of force* against the territorial integrity or political independence *of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

※  Israel is attempting to counter violent extremism (CVE), and stemming the flow of foreign terrorist fighters (FTFs), by the detection and prevention HoAPs and FTFs movement through by effective border controls.​
※  Israel is preventing the direct supply, sale, or transfer to these individuals, groups, undertakings and entities from their territories or by their nationals outside their territories, or using their flag vessels or aircraft, of arms and related materiel of all types including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, and technical advice, assistance or training related to military activities

※  Israel is stopping the perpetration, planning, or preparation of, or participation in, terrorist acts, or the providing or receiving of terrorist training.

※  Israel is doing it part to halt the financing, arming, planning, or recruiting for them, or otherwise supporting their acts or activities, including through information and communications technologies, such as the internet, social media, or any other means.[/CENTER]​​I am not aware of Israel advocating violence or promoting hate speech against the Arab Palestinian.  Israel uses that force which may be necessary to respond and address HoAP activity.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an excerpt:
> View attachment 297081​
> 
> 
> 
> Anti Semitism?  Of course not​[/center]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is a far cry from explaining a "nonviolent" propaganda tool which addresses methology.  It is something completely different from advocating violence.
> 
> But what I find interestion is the substance of the complaint and open misinformation:  *"lift the siege"  *It is NOT a siege and the Arab Palestinians are NOT victims.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was unilaterally vacated by the Israelis in 2005.  The complaint is all about Israel's attempts to seal its borders from the entry Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP), who have no intention of living peacefully in Israel --- and that of → protecting Israeli territorial integrity or political independence.
> 
> ✦  The HoAP has no justification for advocating the use of force against Israel.
> 
> ✦  There is no universally accepted definition of the term “hate speech” in international law, despite its frequent use in both legal and non-legal settings. The term may be broadly characterised as applying to any expression which is abusive, insulting, intimidating, harassing and/or which incites violence, hatred or discrimination against groups identified by a specific set of characteristics1. At best, the term is legally imprecise.
> 
> ※  All Members (of the United Nations) shall refrain in their international relations from the *threat or use of force* against the territorial integrity or political independence *of any state*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
> 
> ※  Israel is attempting to counter violent extremism (CVE), and stemming the flow of foreign terrorist fighters (FTFs), ande Israel will prevent the movement of terrorists or terrorist groups by effective border controls.​
> ※  Israel is preventing the direct supply, sale, or transfer to these individuals, groups, undertakings and entities from their territories or by their nationals outside their territories, or using their flag vessels or aircraft, of arms and related materiel of all types including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, and technical advice, assistance or training related to military activities
> 
> ※  Israel is stopping the perpetration, planning, or preparation of, or participation in, terrorist acts, or the providing or receiving of terrorist training.
> 
> ※  Israel is doing it part to halt the financing, arming, planning, or recruiting for them, or otherwise supporting their acts or activities, including through information and communications technologies, such as the internet, social media, or any other means.[/CENTER]​​I am not aware of Israel advocating violence or promoting hate speech against the Arab Palestinian.  Israel uses that force which may be necessary to respond and address HoAP activity.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Oh my, so much slime.

Are hit pieces all you post?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.



P F Tinmore said:


> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?


*(COMMENT)*

None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


I think Arab propaganda is entirely aimed at mostly evoking emotion, and preventing any constructive discussion based on facts.

It's a common thing at pro-Pali demonstrations that people are trying to prevent others on their side from engaging with anyone who comes to have a dialogue. They simply lack the tools for that other than emotion and intimidation.

And that's the thing they're most afraid of.


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*Palestinians: Do you want the Islamic Caliphate?*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.

You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What does that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
Click to expand...




International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia

   Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
Click to expand...

Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
Click to expand...



   You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?   


  WHAT A SHOCK !!!   
srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
Click to expand...

Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.

So...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
Click to expand...


  Maybe you can “ enlighten “ us then as to what the Armistice lines mean
   IF Israel never had borders then Israel has no reason to go back to something that never existed in the first place


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another example of misleading information and purposefully disinformation.

FIRST:  What is the Rule of Law (RoL) on this matter.

*ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...


*(COMMENT)*

What does this mean? *(RHETORICAL)* It means that the State of Israel *(ie NOT You!)* decides what the boundaries exist.    No matter what your argument may be, it is invalid under the RoL.  Israel, in the broad scope of the issue, affixes the boundaries within the current delineation of active treaties and ceasefire lines.  Your interpretation of the Armistice Limitations does not matter since, relative to the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, the Armistice Agreements no longer set the conditions for any recognition of the delineation.  These Armistice Agreements are for historical use only.  The Green Line, and its track, only exists for reference.

The RoL states:

◈  Recognition of Israel is independent.
◈  Israel has the right to defend its integrity and independence.
◈  These rights have no other limitation under international law.​
With the exception of the Golan Heights _(annexed and protected by Israeli Authorities and defense forces)_, the remained of the boundaries are set by formal written international agreements entered into by the concerned parties under RoL. _(Again NOT you!)_ 

Israel looks something like this.  The Boundaries are _(in reality)_ clearly established on the ground and enforced.  They are unmistakable and unambiguous in the air, on the sea, and on the ground. _(Even a blind man will encounter them.)_



 ​_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you can “ enlighten “ us then as to what the Armistice lines mean
> IF Israel never had borders then Israel has no reason to go back to something that never existed in the first place
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another example of misleading information and purposefully disinformation.
> 
> FIRST:  What is the Rule of Law (RoL) on this matter.
> 
> *ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this mean? *(RHETORICAL)* It means that the State of Israel *(ie NOT You!)* decides what the boundaries exist.    No matter what your argument may be, it is invalid under the RoL.  Israel, in the broad scope of the issue, affixes the boundaries within the current delineation of active treaties and ceasefire lines.  Your interpretation of the Armistice Limitations does not matter since, relative to the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, the Armistice Agreements no longer set the conditions for any recognition of the delineation.  These Armistice Agreements are for historical use only.  The Green Line, and its track, only exists for reference.
> 
> The RoL states:
> 
> ◈  Recognition of Israel is independent.
> ◈  Israel has the right to defend its integrity and independence.
> ◈  These rights have no other limitation under international law.​
> With the exception of the Golan Heights _(annexed and protected by Israeli Authorities and defense forces)_, the remained of the boundaries are set by formal written international agreements entered into by the concerned parties under RoL. _(Again NOT you!)_
> 
> Israel looks something like this.  The Boundaries are _(in reality)_ clearly established on the ground and enforced.  They are unmistakable and unambiguous in the air, on the sea, and on the ground. _(Even a blind man will encounter them.)_
> 
> View attachment 297125 View attachment 297126​_
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law


Indeed.

*PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE​*

*CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT*​


28 September 1948​

 I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...62b1867e967323068025648e0041673d?OpenDocument

May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another example of misleading information and purposefully disinformation.
> 
> FIRST:  What is the Rule of Law (RoL) on this matter.
> 
> *ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this mean? *(RHETORICAL)* It means that the State of Israel *(ie NOT You!)* decides what the boundaries exist.    No matter what your argument may be, it is invalid under the RoL.  Israel, in the broad scope of the issue, affixes the boundaries within the current delineation of active treaties and ceasefire lines.  Your interpretation of the Armistice Limitations does not matter since, relative to the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, the Armistice Agreements no longer set the conditions for any recognition of the delineation.  These Armistice Agreements are for historical use only.  The Green Line, and its track, only exists for reference.
> 
> The RoL states:
> 
> ◈  Recognition of Israel is independent.
> ◈  Israel has the right to defend its integrity and independence.
> ◈  These rights have no other limitation under international law.​
> With the exception of the Golan Heights _(annexed and protected by Israeli Authorities and defense forces)_, the remained of the boundaries are set by formal written international agreements entered into by the concerned parties under RoL. _(Again NOT you!)_
> 
> Israel looks something like this.  The Boundaries are _(in reality)_ clearly established on the ground and enforced.  They are unmistakable and unambiguous in the air, on the sea, and on the ground. _(Even a blind man will encounter them.)_
> 
> View attachment 297125 View attachment 297126​_
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the remained of the boundaries are set by formal written international agreements entered into by the concerned parties under RoL.




BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.



P F Tinmore said:


> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.

◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​


P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.

You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries. 

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.


Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).


Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
Click to expand...


Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> 
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe you can “ enlighten “ us then as to what the Armistice lines mean
> IF Israel never had borders then Israel has no reason to go back to something that never existed in the first place
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


No answer to my question? How typical


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What dies that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Israel is an " undefined blob" inside " Palestine's" borders??  Don't think so!    Keep trying to talk yourself into believing your own Bull Shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your link does not mention any defined territory or borders for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the borders that the Arab World did not recognize prior to 1967?
> 
> 
> WHAT A SHOCK !!!
> srael has diplomatic relations with 163 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2018.[1] Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively. Thirty UN member states do not recognize Israel. These include 17 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. A further 9 are members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger and Pakistan
Click to expand...


Some Arab states are starting to warm up to Israel, such as Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit, of course.

*Decisions of international and national tribunals*
The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=State_of_Palestine&diff=next&oldid=458697488


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.

Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I like the disclaimer on the bottom of that map of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
Click to expand...


Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
Click to expand...




  Regarding Pro Palestinian Bull Shit;  HIS claim that he INITIATED on this board claiming that there is no Anti Semitism; Pro Israel Groups are just lying for their own purposes 

Police: 5 stabbed at Hanukkah celebration north of NYC


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Pro Palestinian Bull Shit;  HIS claim that he INITIATED on this board claiming that there is no Anti Semitism; Pro Israel Groups are just lying for their own purposes
> 
> Police: 5 stabbed at Hanukkah celebration north of NYC
Click to expand...


Of course, there is anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred!  These 5 Jews were stabbed by a Muslim, who was probably inpired by pro-Palestinian propaganda.


----------



## toomuchtime_

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Pro Palestinian Bull Shit;  HIS claim that he INITIATED on this board claiming that there is no Anti Semitism; Pro Israel Groups are just lying for their own purposes
> 
> Police: 5 stabbed at Hanukkah celebration north of NYC
Click to expand...

It is a mistake to consider Tinmore pro Palestinian.  He is simply anti Israel and anti semitic and the so called Palestinians provide him with a platform from which to attack Israel and Jews.


----------



## toomuchtime_

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Pro Palestinian Bull Shit;  HIS claim that he INITIATED on this board claiming that there is no Anti Semitism; Pro Israel Groups are just lying for their own purposes
> 
> Police: 5 stabbed at Hanukkah celebration north of NYC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred!  These 5 Jews were stabbed by a Muslim, who was probably inpired by pro-Palestinian propaganda.
Click to expand...

Pro Palestinian  is just a mask anti semites wear.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is more "disinformation" you are spreading.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, come now.   You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).  It is about as valid as a three dollar bill.
> 
> ◈  The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> ◈  The All Palestine Government was disbanded by the Egyptians in 1959.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The disclaimer only lets you know that the true _(official)_ boundaries are not reliant on their map, but instead, it is dependent on what the Israelis have to claim.   The impression you give is that somehow, the disclaimer invalidates the accuracy of the map _(given the scale)_.  That would be an improper interpretation.
> 
> You _(the Arab Palestinians)_ and the entire Arab League can contest the boundaries.  The requirement of territory does not require a State to have undisputed borders.  The very notion of a border for a state (which supports statehood) is based on the sovereignty and territoriality established by "fixed boundaries."  The Arab Palestinians, and in particular the "All Palestine Government," had not established any actual boundaries.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, come now. You know very well that this comes three months "AFTER" the Israelis declare independence (May '48).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
Click to expand...

Your question was a deflection.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Pro Palestinian Bull Shit;  HIS claim that he INITIATED on this board claiming that there is no Anti Semitism; Pro Israel Groups are just lying for their own purposes
> 
> Police: 5 stabbed at Hanukkah celebration north of NYC
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, there is anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred!  These 5 Jews were stabbed by a Muslim, who was probably inpired by pro-Palestinian propaganda.
Click to expand...


Not according to Tinmore
  Have you seen his posts where he claims that Pro Israel groups are using the Anti Semitic card as an excuse?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Declared independence where? Can one state declare independence inside another states international borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
Click to expand...


No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine wasn't a state.  It was a geographic area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
Click to expand...

The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?

Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.

Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
Click to expand...


The armistice lines are what ppl use to determine what the borders might look like in a final agreement.  Actually, the Palestinians are much more passionate about those lines than the Israelis are, because Israel wants more land from the West Bank to become a part of Israel proper.  For instance, when Obama mentioned the 1967 lines once, Netanyahu got very mad at him.  If Netanyahu gets re-elected, he has vowed to start annexing large parts of Judea and Samaria, such as the Jordan Valley, Gush Etzion and the settlement blocs.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
Click to expand...


Keep in mind, if you want a one-state solution instead of two, that that one state will be Israel only, and not Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bullshit, of course.
> 
> *Decisions of international and national tribunals*
> The U.S. State Department _Digest of International Law_ says that the terms of the Treaty of Lausanne provided for the application of the principles of state succession to the "A" Mandates. The Treaty of Versailles (1920) provisionally recognized the former Ottoman communities as independent nations. It also required Germany to recognize the disposition of the former Ottoman territories and to recognize the new states laid down within their boundaries. The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its _Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions_, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.[25]
> 
> State of Palestine: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
Click to expand...


Then please tell us why we hear so much about the “ Two State Solution “ on the “ 67 Border”and why the “International Community “ recognizes it as such


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration preceded that.
> 
> Aside from that, isn't it futile to go over this ground again and again and again?  Israel is a member state of the U.N.  It will never be destroyed.  A Palestinian state was declared in the West Bank in 1988, and most of the world recognizes that entity, actually.  Wouldn't it make more sense to direct your efforts in that direction?  It's been 3 generations since 1948, and its citizens there consider themselves full Israelis, including its Christians, Druze and even some Muslims.  I don't know how you don't get bored going around in the same circles so many times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then please tell us why we hear so much about the “ Two State Solution “ on the “ 67 Border”and why the “International Community “ recognizes it as such
Click to expand...

The only reason for a two state solution is to protect Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> 
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then please tell us why we hear so much about the “ Two State Solution “ on the “ 67 Border”and why the “International Community “ recognizes it as such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only reason for a two state solution is to protect Israel.
Click to expand...


Well, it can either be 2 states, Israel and "New Palestine", as Jared wants to call it, or one state that is Israel.  If you want one state called Palestine, that is not even an option.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> 
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how he refused 2 answer my question? Pro Palestinian Bull Shit of course
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question was a deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it wasn’t.  I asked you to explain the “ difference “ between borders and “ Armistice Lines . You either can’t or won’t
> IF they weren’t borders in the first place; Israel is not mandated to go back to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question that you ducked is why does everyone use armistice lines for Israel's borders instead of using real borders?
> 
> Armistice lines are only lines that military forces cannot cross.
> 
> Only the people who believe in two states mention the "67 borders."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then please tell us why we hear so much about the “ Two State Solution “ on the “ 67 Border”and why the “International Community “ recognizes it as such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only reason for a two state solution is to protect Israel.
Click to expand...


The Two State Solution ensures that the Jewish people have a voice instead of forever being silenced by the Arab majority and having access to their Religious Sites


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What does that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
Click to expand...


Uhhh, Israel has defined borders. Palestine does not. That is a fact no matter how hard you try to twist it around Tinmore.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another example of misleading information and purposefully disinformation.
> 
> FIRST:  What is the Rule of Law (RoL) on this matter.
> 
> *ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli territory is always defined by armistice lines. The armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial borders.
> 
> So...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What does this mean? *(RHETORICAL)* It means that the State of Israel *(ie NOT You!)* decides what the boundaries exist.    No matter what your argument may be, it is invalid under the RoL.  Israel, in the broad scope of the issue, affixes the boundaries within the current delineation of active treaties and ceasefire lines.  Your interpretation of the Armistice Limitations does not matter since, relative to the West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, the Armistice Agreements no longer set the conditions for any recognition of the delineation.  These Armistice Agreements are for historical use only.  The Green Line, and its track, only exists for reference.
> 
> The RoL states:
> 
> ◈  Recognition of Israel is independent.
> ◈  Israel has the right to defend its integrity and independence.
> ◈  These rights have no other limitation under international law.​
> With the exception of the Golan Heights _(annexed and protected by Israeli Authorities and defense forces)_, the remained of the boundaries are set by formal written international agreements entered into by the concerned parties under RoL. _(Again NOT you!)_
> 
> Israel looks something like this.  The Boundaries are _(in reality)_ clearly established on the ground and enforced.  They are unmistakable and unambiguous in the air, on the sea, and on the ground. _(Even a blind man will encounter them.)_
> 
> View attachment 297125 View attachment 297126​_
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *ARTICLE 3 • CONVENTION ON RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF STATES*
> 
> The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.
> 
> The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> *PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
> MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE*
> 
> *CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
> ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
> TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
> CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT*​
> 
> 
> 28 September 1948​
> 
> I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES
> 
> AHMED HILMI PASHA
> PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unis...62b1867e967323068025648e0041673d?OpenDocument
> 
> May I remind you that this was before the UN carved Palestine into three areas of occupation.
Click to expand...



So, I read your post twice, and nowhere does it prove that Israel does not have defined borders. The other posters CLEARLY indicated, with links, the fact that Israel has borders. 

You lost Tinmore. Again. Take it like a man..


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.

◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.

◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.

◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.

◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.

In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.

◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.

◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.

◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.

◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.

Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.

By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


If I remember correctly, the PLO declared independence in the territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in November of 1988.  Jordan had relinquished that same territory (the West Bank) in July of 1988.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.


The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

All that just to duck a question?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I don't think I directed against fallacious speech against the HoAP position they are maintaining.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my, so much slime.
> 
> Are hit pieces all you post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> None of my posts are intentionally written aimed at sway the discussion opinion by presenting false or biased information.  It is what it is → being descriptive of real-world events.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you kidding? Your posts are full of name calling and slime.
> 
> You pretend that meaningless stuff is legitimate like always bringing up Israel's territorial integrity. What does that mean when Israel is an undefined blob inside Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uhhh, Israel has defined borders. Palestine does not. That is a fact no matter how hard you try to twist it around Tinmore.
Click to expand...


Israel has defined borders with Egypt and Jordan, by treaty.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil






AL-KHALIL, (PIC)

The Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Sunday arrested a Palestinian child in al-Arroub refugee camp north of al-Khalil City in the southern West Bank.

Local sources said that the IOF kidnapped Isa al-Titi, 14, at the entrance of al-Arroub refugee camp.

  Read more at  
IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.
Click to expand...


Their little-known declaration of independence in 1948 came just a little too late to be taken seriously.  And Egypt was in charge of that.  The 1988 declaration was more internationally recognized.  It would be smarter for you to hold onto that, from a legal standpoint.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their little-known declaration of independence in 1948 came just a little too late to be taken seriously.  And Egypt was in charge of that.  The 1988 declaration was more internationally recognized.  It would be smarter for you to hold onto that, from a legal standpoint.
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> Their little-known declaration of independence in 1948 came just a little too late to be taken seriously. And Egypt was in charge of that.


It was reported to the UN.

What do you mean too late?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Yes, that is the one message sent by the All Palestine Government (September 1948).   However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).

Tha Palestineswere not part of the conflict as a participating nation.  Therefore not a signatory to any Armistice.  Therefore, at the time of the Armistice, the Arab Palestinians had no political control over any territory. 

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,


RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."





P F Tinmore said:


> All that just to duck a question?


*(COMMENT)*

Exactly what question did I duck?

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil
> 
> The Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Sunday arrested a Palestinian child in al-Arroub refugee camp north of al-Khalil City in the southern West Bank.
> 
> Local sources said that the IOF kidnapped Isa al-Titi, 14, at the entrance of al-Arroub refugee camp.
> 
> Read more at
> IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


*(QUESTION)*

Just who did the Israelis kidnap the child from?  There is something wrong with this story.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil
> 
> The Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Sunday arrested a Palestinian child in al-Arroub refugee camp north of al-Khalil City in the southern West Bank.
> 
> Local sources said that the IOF kidnapped Isa al-Titi, 14, at the entrance of al-Arroub refugee camp.
> 
> Read more at
> IOF kidnaps Palestinian child in al-Khalil
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Just who did the Israelis kidnap the child from?  There is something wrong with this story.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


He wants the posters to believe the Israeli troops just roam the streets “ arresting little innocent children” We all know he lies


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Yes, that is the one message sent by the All Palestine Government (September 1948).   However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).
> 
> Tha Palestineswere not part of the conflict as a participating nation.  Therefore not a signatory to any Armistice.  Therefore, at the time of the Armistice, the Arab Palestinians had no political control over any territory.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).


How so?



RoccoR said:


> the Arab Palestinians had no political control over any territory.


Here again, are you saying that occupation voids the Palestinian's rights?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian boy smiles and flashes the V sign (for victory) while being detained in an Israeli military jeep during the First Intifada, 1987.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The daily life in Gaza during the winter.
by Abed Zagout


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Said is an Arabic name that means “Happy” in English. This 10-year-old child called Said sells mint in Gaza streets, especially in Al-Remal area, central Gaza City.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get one thing straight right now _(in regards to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip • WB-J-GS)_.  The Israel Defense Force (IDF) did not move forward and place any Arab Palestinian territory under its occupation.  Over time, the ground-truth conditions evolved until it became politically acceptable to express the evolving situation in that way.
> 
> ◈  The IDF established very necesssary and effective control over the certain territory • which were in 1948 • territories once held under mandate and transitioning into the International Trustee System (ITS).  This assumption of control was made necessary to defend against the Forces of the Arab League taking control of the entirety of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine and which included those lands in which the Israelis declared independence; and assume Article 1 Authority _(Montevideo Convention 1933)_ with regards to their independence.  In 1948, the Arab Palestinians did not have any political authority over any of the Territory Formerly Under the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> ◈  In the period immediately proceeding the 1948 Conflict, the Arab Higher Committee rejected the territory alloted and adopted by the UN.   So, the Arab Palestinians never establish any actual functioning government and political authority over any territory.
> 
> ◈  So!  At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt.  But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> ◈  In 1967, with regards to the WB-J-GS, Israeli engagement with Arab League Forces lead to a complex territorial control.  For the WB-J, Israel had effective control, but the territory was under the political soveriengty of Jordan.  For the GS, Israel had effective control, but the territory was still considered a political protectorate of Egypt.  So!  Under Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, once the actually territory was placed under the authority of the IDF, it became either Egyptian territory occupied by the IDF - or - Jordanian territory occupied by the IDF.
> 
> In 1974, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is *liberated*. From that point the PLO Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> ◈   This situation remained stable until 1979 and the Israelis and the Egyptian concluded a Peace Treaty and the Egyptians relinquished any authority pertaining to the GS.
> 
> ◈   In 1988, Jordan exercies what it termed as "cutting all ties" with the WB-J.  This amounted to a political abandonment of the WB-J.  By default, the country maintaining effective control over the WB-J (israel) became the political authority.
> 
> ◈  That same year (1988) the PLO, sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but over what territory was confusing.
> 
> ◈  In 1993 and 1995, the Oslo Accords were signed between the PLO and the State of Israel.  This ultimately lead to the unilateral withdraw by the Israelis from the GS in 2005.  At that point, the GS, by the agreed upon conditions, became the Political Authority over the Gaza Strip.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The All Palestine Government never had independent control over any of the territories it claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that an occupation voids peoples rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ANSWER:  Occupation is a term defined by the Hague Regulation.  It is actually a place under the authority of the IDF and makes the IDF take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety.
> 
> Other than the Gaza Strip, which in only the very loose sense, is the only Palestinian territory that is *liberated*.
> 
> By Agreement, the PLO/PA became responsible for complete civil and security control by the within Area "A."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ So! At that point, as recorded in the various Armistice Agreements of 1949, the Arab Palestinians of that period were under the political authority of either Israel, Jordan, or Egypt. But NO faction of the Arab Palestinians were a party to the Armistice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence before the armistice agreements The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their little-known declaration of independence in 1948 came just a little too late to be taken seriously.  And Egypt was in charge of that.  The 1988 declaration was more internationally recognized.  It would be smarter for you to hold onto that, from a legal standpoint.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their little-known declaration of independence in 1948 came just a little too late to be taken seriously. And Egypt was in charge of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was reported to the UN.
> 
> What do you mean too late?
Click to expand...


I thought you believed the U.N. has no legitimacy, since Israel is a member state of the U.N. and you refuse to acknowledge that fact.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.

Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun



If you're speaking of the Christians in Gaza, they're lucky to even be alive, living under Hamas, an extremist Islamic organization.  Christians have been killed throughout the Middle East.  But Hamas keeps them around for PR purposes.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Mariam Dagga, a female photographer from #Gaza, succeeds to capture how children are happy to receive such huge amounts of rain, especially as the school vacation has just started.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, put your thinking cap on.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Simple, One claimed the territory already in the hands of the other.   Israels claimed (in May) came before the Palestinian claim.  Israel has the right to expect Palestinian "not to interfere."



RoccoR said:


> Here again, are you saying that occupation voids the Palestinian's rights?


*(COMMENT)*

 The two rights cannot coexist, since they each have the right to act (take the territory) without interference from the other.




​
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, put your thinking cap on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Simple, One claimed the territory already in the hands of the other.   Israels claimed (in May) came before the Palestinian claim.  Israel has the right to expect Palestinian "not to interfere."
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, are you saying that occupation voids the Palestinian's rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The two rights cannot coexist, since they each have the right to act (take the territory) without interference from the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?

How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun



Do you have ANY idea of how STUPID you sound????
  You talk about them being a minority and being DEPRIVED of their “ Main Rights” not being able to Visit their Houses of Worship yet the Israelis are supposed to accept being deprived of their Sacred Religions Sites?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have ANY idea of how STUPID you sound????
> You talk about them being a minority and being DEPRIVED of their “ Main Rights” not being able to Visit their Houses of Worship yet the Israelis are supposed to accept being deprived of their Sacred Religions Sites?
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have ANY idea of how STUPID you sound????
> You talk about them being a minority and being DEPRIVED of their “ Main Rights” not being able to Visit their Houses of Worship yet the Israelis are supposed to accept being deprived of their Sacred Religions Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


Is being a bigot and a Hypocrite all you have?   The answer is


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christmas in Palestine
Citizens welcome Archbishop "Pierre Batista Pizzaballa", Patriarchal Vicar of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem / Bethlehem


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nowadays, almost 1300 Christians, forming 390 families, are living here and considering themselves a minority that is deprived of its main rights like visiting its places of worship in the West Bank or outside of Palestine. Hence, they tend to immigrate to places where they don't have to face the Israeli restrictions imposed on the Strip.
> 
> Photo by: Mohammed Zaanoun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have ANY idea of how STUPID you sound????
> You talk about them being a minority and being DEPRIVED of their “ Main Rights” not being able to Visit their Houses of Worship yet the Israelis are supposed to accept being deprived of their Sacred Religions Sites?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


If Christians are immigrating to other places outside of Gaza, it's not because of Israel, but because of Hamas and the Muslim majority in Gaza.  Take a look at Christians throughout the Middle East.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, put your thinking cap on.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, that declaration was not valid as it came after the Israeli Declaration (May 1948).
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Simple, One claimed the territory already in the hands of the other.   Israels claimed (in May) came before the Palestinian claim.  Israel has the right to expect Palestinian "not to interfere."
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, are you saying that occupation voids the Palestinian's rights?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The two rights cannot coexist, since they each have the right to act (take the territory) without interference from the other.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> 
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
Click to expand...


That prohibition has an artificial cut-off date, which just happens to coincide with the timing of Israel's founding.  Besides which, you are ignoring the Arabs' rejection of the U.N.'s Partition Plan.  It seems you only follow the U.N. when it's convenient for you to do so.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Actually, it would be in the Palestinian terrorists' nature to disguise themselves as Santa Clause and hide explosives in their bags.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You are twisting words here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?


*(COMMENT)*

In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.

First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.

The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.

The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:

“ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Why all of the deflection?


RoccoR said:


> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.


Not true. The Mandates did not acquire sovereignty over the territory. They could not do with it whatever it wanted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION


Would the US accept hacking off everything west of the Mississippi and giving it to someone else? Of course not.

*Very stupid argument. *


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would the US accept hacking off everything west of the Mississippi and giving it to someone else? Of course not.
> 
> *Very stupid argument. *
Click to expand...

lol  How can the Palestinians agree to give up land since they have none?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would the US accept hacking off everything west of the Mississippi and giving it to someone else? Of course not.
> 
> *Very stupid argument. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  How can the Palestinians agree to give up land since they have none?
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What sickos call their children "holy Jihad"??
> 
> 
> Ah I forgot... the ones who put on them suicide vests.
Click to expand...


So the savages stopped strapping suicide vests on their children?
That sure grants the 'Parent of the Year' award!   

Lets face it, your Jihadi lowlifes - are the filth of the earth.

*Gazans march demanding Caliphate*
**


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would the US accept hacking off everything west of the Mississippi and giving it to someone else? Of course not.
> 
> *Very stupid argument. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  How can the Palestinians agree to give up land since they have none?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

lol  To what?  Clearly the Palestinians have no land and have never ha political control over any land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Finding success outside the box of Gaza- See more at: Finding success outside the box of Gaza


----------



## rylah

*Hamas sentenced a comedian from Rafah to 1.5 years in prison for mocking the organization*

Gaza military court issued the sentence over the weekend after comedian Adel Al-Mashuhi was charged with hurting religious sentiments and disgraceful behavior.

The problem for Hamas is the "mocking"...
Not the throwing of opposition from the rooftops, and of course not the public execution of gays in the main square.


----------



## rylah




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are twisting words here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that Palestinian territory was up for grabs. The ones with the guns get the territory?
> How does this jive with the prohibition of acquiring territory by force?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was no "acquiring territory by force" in regards to the original partitions.  The Arab Palestinians were the First Cause that brings us to the condition set for today.
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.  The War with the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic brought to closure and the Treaty of Lausanne.  And as part of that Treaty, it stipulated that (excerpt) "the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned."  The Arab Palestinians were not a "party" to the Treaty.
> 
> The Allied Powers at the San Remo Convention wrote the backbone of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> The territory was not "up for grabs."  It was that the leadership of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), the Chairman (Mohammed Amin al-Husseini) of the committee and former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, at the outbreak of World War I in 1914, al-Husseini received a commission in the Ottoman Army as an artillery officer.  And take notice that the Message of Independence sent by the All Palestine Government _(See Posting #14039)_ was signed by a former General of the Ottoman Army (Ahmed Hilmi Pasha).  They were NOT parties to the conflict and they were NOT promised anything.  However, even as early as 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  In January 1948, the AHC the last attempt made to a place at the table in the development of the Self-Governing Institutions.  Their response was:
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION” ​
> The defiance exhibited by the Arab Palestinians --- the all or nothing attitude --- is the same attitude maintained throughout the Mandate Period, and deep into the conflict with a remolding of the position:  "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would the US accept hacking off everything west of the Mississippi and giving it to someone else? Of course not.
> 
> *Very stupid argument. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  How can the Palestinians agree to give up land since they have none?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


We provided you with a link that proves Israel's borders. But you ignored them as usual. Why are you asking for a link now when you're just going to ignore it anyway.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



Why are you showing us this witch?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


Another Palestinian demanding her right to kill Jews without interference.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Thank you so much guys ❤️
Message us on 2 Suns Shamsaan or on my page


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Thank you so much guys ❤️
> Message us on 2 Suns Shamsaan or on my page



Palestinian mentality:

When "becoming a great person, reaching dreams..."

is asking you to donate for her sister's campaign of suicide bombings.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another Palestinian demanding her right to kill Jews without interference.
Click to expand...


Sick culture and society.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Leader: Palestine for us is Like a Toothpick. *
*Our Goals are Much Bigger i.e. Global Caliphate*

Let the truth be heard

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

*IF* you are not going to read _(and comprehend) _the Treaty excerpt, *THEN* there is not much I can say to help you.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why all of the deflection?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The Mandates did not acquire sovereignty over the territory. They could not do with it whatever it wanted.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal (_Turkey *renounced all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers_).  The Allied Powers, at that time in history, how to handle such issues emerging in the 20th Century, were debated vigorously.  But in those days, the Allied Powers _(San Remo Convention)_ could very well have assumed soverenty (if they wanted).  But the Allied Powers, early on, had decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home (Israel), and later made the recommendation to partition the territory, for an Arab State to the East of the Jordan River (Jordan), and a Arab State _(what is now spoke of as the State of Palestine as of December 2012)_ in the partition West of the Jordan River.  The end fighting and political demands made by the Arab Palestinians West of the Jordan River was just unacceptable.  The treaty did not relinquish the rights and title to the Arab Palestinians, but to the Allied Powers.  And while the Allied Powers attempted to negotiate a settlement to the disputes, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believed that to take that territory earmarked for the Jewish State by force _(via the Arab League Forces)_.   The outcome was a major bunder for the Arab Palestinians.  Jordan took what they wanted and Egypt took what they wanted. The outcome was a major step backward for the Arab Palestinians.   And the adopted strategy to liberate the territory by force has actually worked against the Arab Palestinians.


_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *IF* you are not going to read _(and comprehend) _the Treaty excerpt, *THEN* there is not much I can say to help you.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why all of the deflection?
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, the Territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine was in the hands of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The Mandates did not acquire sovereignty over the territory. They could not do with it whatever it wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal (_Turkey *renounced all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers_).  The Allied Powers, at that time in history, how to handle such issues emerging in the 20th Century, were debated vigorously.  But in those days, the Allied Powers _(San Remo Convention)_ could very well have assumed soverenty (if they wanted).  But the Allied Powers, early on, had decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home (Israel), and later made the recommendation to partition the territory, for an Arab State to the East of the Jordan River (Jordan), and a Arab State _(what is now spoke of as the State of Palestine as of December 2012)_ in the partition West of the Jordan River.  The end fighting and political demands made by the Arab Palestinians West of the Jordan River was just unacceptable.  The treaty did not relinquish the rights and title to the Arab Palestinians, but to the Allied Powers.  And while the Allied Powers attempted to negotiate a settlement to the disputes, in the end, the Arab Palestinians believed that to take that territory earmarked for the Jewish State by force _(via the Arab League Forces)_.   The outcome was a major bunder for the Arab Palestinians.  Jordan took what they wanted and Egypt took what they wanted. The outcome was a major step backward for the Arab Palestinians.   And the adopted strategy to liberate the territory by force has actually worked against the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal


Why are they doing all that shit in a territory where they have no sovereignty?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Let's get the quote correct AND IN IT'S CONTEXT.

"The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal (_Turkey *renounced all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers_). "

Because it was, in actuality, not illegal but → completely lawful. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal
> 
> 
> 
> Why are they doing all that shit in a territory where they have no sovereignty?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It was not Arab Palestinian territory.  The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_.  All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.  And that the Arab Palestinians were _(at that time)_ were the principles of the Occupied *Enemy* Territory.  

The Allied Powers acted in a way that they felt was appropriate and would achieve the central issue within the Mandate:  putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917 → "in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."

Seldom do critical political decisions appease all the parties it touches.

The Arab Palestinians would have been much better off today if they had cooperated with the Partition.  They could have been very prosperous and developed as nations in the region are.  But the Arab Palestinians did not work in their own best interest.  On the contrary, they were enveloped by a need for wealth and power; not unlike what the political cast in Ramallah and Gaza _(hundreds of millionaires)_ are today.

The Arab Palestinians like to jazz the argument up with political platitudes → but once you get past all the graft, fraud and corruption within the leadership, you see the true objectives:  wealth and power.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get the quote correct AND IN IT'S CONTEXT.
> 
> "The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal (_Turkey *renounced all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers_). "
> 
> Because it was, in actuality, not illegal but → completely lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal
> 
> 
> 
> Why are they doing all that shit in a territory where they have no sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory.  The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_.  All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.  And that the Arab Palestinians were _(at that time)_ were the principles of the Occupied *Enemy* Territory.
> 
> The Allied Powers acted in a way that they felt was appropriate and would achieve the central issue within the Mandate:  putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917 → "in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."
> 
> Seldom do critical political decisions appease all the parties it touches.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians would have been much better off today if they had cooperated with the Partition.  They could have been very prosperous and developed as nations in the region are.  But the Arab Palestinians did not work in their own best interest.  On the contrary, they were enveloped by a need for wealth and power; not unlike what the political cast in Ramallah and Gaza _(hundreds of millionaires)_ are today.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians like to jazz the argument up with political platitudes → but once you get past all the graft, fraud and corruption within the leadership, you see the true objectives:  wealth and power.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.


The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.

You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.

At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Let's get the quote correct AND IN IT'S CONTEXT.
> 
> "The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal (_Turkey *renounced all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers_). "
> 
> Because it was, in actuality, not illegal but → completely lawful.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allied Powers did not take sovereignty because it was illegal
> 
> 
> 
> Why are they doing all that shit in a territory where they have no sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory.  The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_.  All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.  And that the Arab Palestinians were _(at that time)_ were the principles of the Occupied *Enemy* Territory.
> 
> The Allied Powers acted in a way that they felt was appropriate and would achieve the central issue within the Mandate:  putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917 → "in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."
> 
> Seldom do critical political decisions appease all the parties it touches.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians would have been much better off today if they had cooperated with the Partition.  They could have been very prosperous and developed as nations in the region are.  But the Arab Palestinians did not work in their own best interest.  On the contrary, they were enveloped by a need for wealth and power; not unlike what the political cast in Ramallah and Gaza _(hundreds of millionaires)_ are today.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians like to jazz the argument up with political platitudes → but once you get past all the graft, fraud and corruption within the leadership, you see the true objectives:  wealth and power.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
Click to expand...


You only quote and use the U.N. when it's to your advantage and convenience.  Israel is a member state of the U.N., so it obviously also has a right to self-determination, sovereignty and independence, or else it would not have been accepted into that organization.  So, according to the U.N., both peoples have that right.  This can only be accomplished by 2 states, according to your own logic, and not by Palestine taking over that whole small area.  And don't think it's so easy for Israel to give up its ancestral heartland in the West Bank either!


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_. 

*BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.

◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945. 

In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.

But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_.
> 
> *BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
> ◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
> ◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
> Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945.
> 
> In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So then, why do foreign immigrants have more rights than the natives.

And besides, they were not immigrants.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_.
> 
> *BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
> ◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
> ◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
> Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945.
> 
> In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?

I have asked this question many times. That is when you start dancing.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_.
> 
> *BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
> ◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
> ◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
> Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945.
> 
> In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, why do foreign immigrants have more rights than the natives.
> 
> And besides, they were not immigrants.
Click to expand...


Of course, they were immigrants.  When my grandparents and uncles were forced out of Poland and were denied visas to America, they moved to Israel.  If they weren't immigrants, what exactly were they?  Alligators?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_.
> 
> *BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
> ◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
> ◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
> Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945.
> 
> In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, why do foreign immigrants have more rights than the natives.
> 
> And besides, they were not immigrants.
Click to expand...


The Jewish immigrants weren't foreign to the natives.

Grandfather of my Rabbi in the yeshivah  gave away his plots of land for them to build new villages. And his family lived here long before the droves of Arabs started pouring in, from the same countries where they expelled Jews.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?



Well, that IS an interesting question.  What is your answer?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, you are correct.  Theoretically, ALL people, Everywhere, have these rights.  They are not at all unique to the Arab Palestinian _(including the Jewish Immigrants)_.
> 
> *BLUF:*  If we are to respect the rights of the combative Arab Palestinian, then we must also insist that all parties equally respect the rights of the Cooperative Jewish Immigrant.  The fact that the Jewish movement acted first and in concert with the Allied Powers is not a justification for the hostilities perpetrated by the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> ◈  The right to self determination  _[Part I, Article 1(1), International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]_
> ◈  The right to territorial integrity and political independence _[Chapter I, Article 2(4), UN Charter]_
> ◈  The right to sovereign equality applies to international status of a sovereign, independent State _(not people)_. _ [Articles 2(1), 78, UN Charter]_​
> Individual (personal) Sovereignty is not addressed in either the _International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD)_, the CCPR, the _Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)_, or the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not Arab Palestinian territory. The Arab Palestinians did not have any sovereignty at all _(not for a thousand years)_. All this talk about sovereignty overshadows the fact that the Arab Palestinians had no sovereignty either.
> 
> 
> 
> The UN states that the Palestinians, in Palestine, have the right to self-determination, the right to independence and sovereignty and the right to territorial integrity.
> 
> You claim that the Palestinians did not have any rights when the country was founded. The UN says different.
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> NONE of the Conventions in the framework of International Law comes before 1945.
> 
> In the early part of the 20th Century, The Treaty of Versailles, which brought an end to the First World War, was probably the pivotal point_ (although some historians might point to the Treaty of  Westphalia)_ for these political considerations.  They were tacked onto the front-end of the treaty.  They were called the 14 Points of Peace _(by American President Woodrow Wilson)_.  They were not incorporated into the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> But let's be clear, the Jewish Immigrant had the exact same rights to self-determination, territorial integrity, and a nation with political sovereignty as anyone else.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At what point in time did the Palestinians obtain these rights? What triggered that event?
> 
> I have asked this question many times. That is when you start dancing.
Click to expand...


At the point in history when Palestine was defined a separate political entity -
allotted for the sovereignty of the Jewish nation.

When did the Jihadi princess of Qatar's royal tribe become Palestinian?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,

Well, I refer to the Jewish movement into the Mandated Territory as "immigrants" because in the early decades of the 20th Century, that is how the Allied Powers (consistently) referred to them:



			
				EXCERPT From the Palestine Order in Council said:
			
		

> XVIII.--The High Commissioner shall not unless he shall have previously obtained instructions thereupon from one of Our Principal Secretaries of State, or unless the Ordinance shall contain a clause suspending its operation until the signification of Our pleasure thereupon, assent to any Ordinance of any of the following classes, namely:--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (1) Any Ordinance relating to immigration;​XXVII.--The High Commissioner shall be guided by the statement of British policy in Palestine presented to Parliament by Our Command on the 1st day of July 1922. While ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, he shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
> 
> Immigration.84.--
> (i) The High Commissioner shall confer upon all matters relating to the regulation of immigration with a Committee consisting of not less than one-half of the unofficial members of the Legislative Council, and provision shall be made by Order in Council for investing the said Committee with all such powers and authorities and otherwise for the constitution and conduct of the business of the said Committee, as may be necessary to carry this Article into effect.
> 
> (ii) In the event of any difference of opinion between the High Commissioner and the said Committee upon any such matter as aforesaid, the High Commissioner shall make a full report on the subject to a Secretary of State, whose decision thereon shall be final.


These Jewish Immigrants _(possibly alligators)_ are not to be confused with the pre-war Jew Residents that held Government Recognition in one of the Ottoman Political Subdivisions.

NOTE: That the non-cooperating Arab Palestinians declined to participate as unofficial members of the Legislative Council on Immigration Matters.  However, the Jewish Agency readily accepted the invitation.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rafeef Ziadah - The Palestine I Know*


----------



## P F Tinmore

This is the school seat of the 16-year-old Palestinian child who got executed by Israeli fire in the Great Return March .


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN....  Let them stop with the Rockets.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> This is the school seat of the 16-year-old Palestinian child who got executed by Israeli fire in the Great Return March .



Why was he deliberately put in harm's way?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Authority's security forces "disappeared" as IOF raided the city of Ramallah, the de facto center of the Palestinian Authority.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Among World’s 50 Best Teachers

Palestinian teacher Rana Ziada, from al-Zahra School, in Gaza, has been chosen among the 50 shortlisted for the world’s best teacher prize.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> This is the school seat of the 16-year-old Palestinian child who got executed by Israeli fire in the Great Return March .



Blame his Brethren for rioting, shooting Rockets and setting fires


----------



## P F Tinmore

Thousands of women, young and old, and kids are part of the crowds in today's Hamas 31st anniversary events.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hamas celebrating the movement's 31st anniversary.


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Hamas celebrating the movement's 31st anniversary.


Look at that!  She took off her suicide vest for the party.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.


----------



## rylah




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.


Was she rioting at those Friday rallies, trying to break down the fence and enter israel, so she could kill Jews?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


>



Abnormal society.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

14/12 ... 31st resistance anniversary for Hamas.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who is Archbishop Atallah Hanna, and Why does Israel Hate Him?*

*




*

*Who is Archbishop Atallah Hanna, and Why does Israel Hate Him?*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> 14/12 ... 31st resistance anniversary for Hamas.



Who cares?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Martyr Hamdan Tawfiq Arda, 60, who was shot dead by israeli occupation forces in the West Bank city of Al-Bireh today evening.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.



   They Reap What they Sow 

Fatah makes "Palestinian values" clear as night and day


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They Reap What they Sow
> 
> Fatah makes "Palestinian values" clear as night and day
Click to expand...




10,000 Palestinians riot along the Gaza border, IDF fires back

KEEP POSTING!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Who is Archbishop Atallah Hanna, and Why does Israel Hate Him?*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *Who is Archbishop Atallah Hanna, and Why does Israel Hate Him?*




Israel MAY have attempted to kill him?  Couldn't he come up with anything more definite??


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


> Martyr Hamdan Tawfiq Arda, 60, who was shot dead by israeli occupation forces in the West Bank city of Al-Bireh today evening.


Thursday shot dead a Palestinian man while driving his vehicle, after the forces had raided the industrial zone on the northern section of Al-Bireh city in the occupied West Bank, medical sources said.

Soldiers opened fire at the man and critically injured him, before he was announced dead a couple of minutes later. He was later identified as Hamdan Tawfiq Arda, 58, from the town of Arraba in the northern West Bank.

The soldiers reportedly preventing medics from reaching him to provide him with first aid before he succumbed to his wounds.

Israeli military claimed that Arda had attempted to ram his car into the soldiers who had just raided the zone. The raid was apparently in search of the attackers behind the killing of three Israeli soldiers at route 60, just east of Ramallah, earlier today.

http://english.wafa.ps/page.aspx?id...PNuQeTK0z-avlIE5RVHXqliJwkztL5JCgECEMggRba0EQ

So he was innocently trying to kill some Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation soldiers in action against indigenous Palestinians


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mohamed Tamimi, Ahed Tamimi’s younger brother, was injured by Israeli occupation forces while its attack the village of Nabi Saleh, yesterday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Dome of the Rock in Al-Aqsa mosque compound in the Old City of occupied Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Pro-Israeli yellow media is good at fighting against any truthful criticism of the Israeli terrorism and apartheid.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> The Dome of the Rock in Al-Aqsa mosque compound in the Old City of occupied Jerusalem



Time to deconstruct that eyesore, label the pieces, ship them to Saudi Arabia, and purify the ground after centuries of barbarian pollution.

Perhaps they can erect a plaque noting that the False Prophet descended to Hell from that spot - a parody on an old fairy tale.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Year in Review: Will 2020 Be a Game Changer in Palestine?*





Palestinian families take part of Gaza's Great March of Return. (Photo: ActiveStills.org)


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> ...Gaza's Great March of Return...


Right up there with '_Fantasy Football_'... and just as real.

Funny stuff... downright hilarious...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *A Year in Review: Will 2020 Be a Game Changer in Palestine?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian families take part of Gaza's Great March of Return. (Photo: ActiveStills.org)



Good! The more they riot with their explosives, setting fires, etc. the more will be killed


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces fire tear-gas canisters intensively towards civilians houses during a raid campaign in Kober village, southern occupied West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Us five motherless children with our grandmother Fattoum Hammoudeh of #Lifta, Palestine in Ramallah after the Nakba. I am second from left. Our mother, Salwa al-Madi of Ijzim, #Haifa died young, yearning for her family in Haifa from whom she was separated after the Nakba.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian political party Fatah celebration in #Nablus - 55th anniversary. Did you know? Fatah is a reverse acronym for Harakat al-Tahrir al-Filistiniya or Palestinian National Liberation Movement in Arabic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine Writes


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Check out this masterpiece by Mohammed Said that shows off #Gaza like it has never been before!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A heavily armed Israeli soldier is checking the identification cards of Palestinian school children at a checkpoint in Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The True Face Of Israel:
Israeli soldier brutally assaulted and arrested Palestinian child in the southern area the occupied Hebron.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

LOL

Tinmore, do you even believe half the propaganda you post?

Terrorism is the TARGETING of civilians to cause TERROR for political and religious purposed. Please explain how what Israel does is terrorism, 

I'm sure I won't get an answer.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian Bedouins herd sheep near the eastern border of #Gaza City.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Only in Gaza: an injured nurse is helping an injured journalist during the #GreatReaturnMarch


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

This photograph was taken in 1949 in #Jerusalem. It shows a warehouse at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem where Arabic books and manuscripts that were looted from Palestinian homes after the expulsion of their owners at the hands of Zionists in 1948 were stored! The number of books and manuscripts has been estimated at 18,000.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Christmas Day procession in Bethlehem, 1899


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel. 

*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *



Here we go again; Israel does not have the Right to Exist..,,,  YAWN.


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Lies: Ben-Dror Yemini*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The True Face Of Israel:
> Israeli soldier brutally assaulted and arrested Palestinian child in the southern area the occupied Hebron.



No documentation, threads. Only “ pictures”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *





Racism in the Palestinian territories - Wikipedia

  What they don't tell you about Apartheid " Palestine"





Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia




In 2008, the Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, stated that Hamas would agree to accept a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, and to offer a long-term truce with Israel.[8] In contrast to this, Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar stated that any talk of the 1967 lines is "just a phase" until Hamas has a chance to "regain the land...even if we [Hamas] have to do so inch by inch."[9] Other Hamas leaders, including Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal, have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,"[10] and that "we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south."[11][12]

    The Israelis have every reason to have the opinion that they do


----------



## P F Tinmore

Scientists for Palestine is convening over 120 of the most committed activists and scientists from across the world, who will meet to advance and elevate Science in/for Palestine in Boston at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) Jan 10-12, 2020.

Only 20 seats are left for the closed panels and brainstorming sessions which will feature Nobel Laureates and Palestinian scientists and civil society leaders, Saturday and Sunday.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Trump Executive Order is first and foremost a response to the success of the BDS movement in the U.S., and the broadening embrace among young students and progressive advocates of Palestinian human rights. In the past 13 years, there have been more than 250 victories for the BDS movement in North America. BDS is also now endorsed by such diverse groups as the U.S. Presbyterian Church, teachers’ unions, and prominent African Americans like Angela Davis. As in so many other areas of political life, the Trump administration is trying to move the U.S. backwards to a more reactionary past. Trump’s executive order will be challenged, and his administration’s effort to stifle speech critical of Israel and organizing for Palestinian human rights will fail. But this will require us to keep organizing and resisting–to stand strong in the face of fascism as we continue to support BDS on our university campuses.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Ria_Longhorn

P F Tinmore said:


> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *



EoZ posters for "Apartheid Week" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Ria_Longhorn said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EoZ posters for "Apartheid Week" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...


There will be no response; there never is. Consider the source


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ria_Longhorn said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EoZ posters for "Apartheid Week" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
Click to expand...

So then, what is the problem with the one state solution?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium - Keynote Address*

**


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EoZ posters for "Apartheid Week" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, what is the problem with the one state solution?
Click to expand...


I see three problems:

1. It allows neither people to exert their self-determination. 

2.  It requires Arab Palestine to turn away from any ideas of “Arab unity” and Islam supremacy. 

3.  Arab Palestine (and the larger Arab world see #2 above) has not demonstrated its ability to fully accept and support Jewish culture, religion, language, history and tradition on an equal footing.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Cliff Notes: What They Don't Tell You About Apartheid Israel.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EoZ posters for "Apartheid Week" ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, what is the problem with the one state solution?
Click to expand...


Nothing, if that one state is Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Israeli Rights and Obligations*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestinians' right of return is inevitable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian protesters express their support of #BDS during the #GreatReturnMarch protests at Gaza border.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians' right of return is inevitable.



In your dreams!  No one in their right minds believe that will happen.  You're not doing your darling Palestinian countrymen any favors by perpetuating that delusion.  The sooner they begin to accept reality, the sooner they can begin to build normal lives on the West Bank and other countries, like my parents, and millions of other refugees around the world, have done.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



From the River to the Sea includes all of Israel!  That extremist view will never come to fruition, and it is futile and self-defeating to perpetuate that delusion.  Israel is a thriving country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the River to the Sea includes all of Israel!  That extremist view will never come to fruition, and it is futile and self-defeating to perpetuate that delusion.  Israel is a thriving country.
Click to expand...

It always seems impossible until it is done. ~ Nelson Mandela


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the River to the Sea includes all of Israel!  That extremist view will never come to fruition, and it is futile and self-defeating to perpetuate that delusion.  Israel is a thriving country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It always seems impossible until it is done. ~ Nelson Mandela
Click to expand...


South Africa was a different situation.  There were no refugees involved, and a host of other differences, including the fact that there's no Apartheid in Israel proper.  My grandmother in Haifa was treated by a host of Arab doctors and nurses, and my cousins sit in University classes with Arab students.  There are even Arab Israeli Zionists like Mohammed Zoabi.  It's the situation in the West Bank that needs to be resolved.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*

**


----------



## rylah

*Palestinians march in Gaza demanding Caliphate*

They don't want just one state for themselves, 
they want the entire middle east under exclusive Muslim domination, and then some...


----------



## watchingfromafar

They don't want just one state for themselves,

The Israeli’s want the entire middle east under exclusive Zionist domination, and then some...
-


----------



## rylah

watchingfromafar said:


> They don't want just one state for themselves,
> 
> The Israeli’s want the entire middle east under exclusive Zionist domination, and then some...
> -



Israelis have less than 1% of the entire middle east,
Muslims have the remaining 99%.

Israel is the only nation in the middle east, though one of the smallest,
that the Muslims can't manage to subdue on their way of achieving exclusive domination.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority.  This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*


*(PANELIST)*

•  Lawyer, journalist and activist.

•  Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University

•  Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​
*(COMMENT)*

This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view _(ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided)_ and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.

You will no doubt notice that the first speaker _(lawyer, journalist and activist)_ harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (*GCIV*) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the _GCIV_.  Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:

◈  The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory).  And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.

◈  The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian _(protected person or not)_ liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:

✦  The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
✦  Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
✦  Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
✦  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons _(no matter what their status)_.​
The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion.  If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> **



Wow. Just wow. 

She say the partition of a territory due to ethnic nationalism is illegal in international law. 

Who is going to inform the hundred or so new States formed since 1948 that they are illegal?

Oh wait. You mean it’s only illegal when Israel does it?  Double standards = anti-semitism. 

The world is twisting laws specifically against Israel. It’s unconscionable.


----------



## Shusha

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority.  This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(PANELIST)*
> 
> •  Lawyer, journalist and activist.
> 
> •  Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University
> 
> •  Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view _(ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided)_ and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.
> 
> You will no doubt notice that the first speaker _(lawyer, journalist and activist)_ harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (*GCIV*) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the _GCIV_.  Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory).  And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.
> 
> ◈  The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian _(protected person or not)_ liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:
> 
> ✦  The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons _(no matter what their status)_.​
> The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion.  If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Yes. And...  when dealing with a conflict which is 100 years old, it is highly suspicious to list “proof” of things such as occupation with 2016 UNGA resolutions, while not including any documentation from the preceding 100 years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority.  This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(PANELIST)*
> 
> •  Lawyer, journalist and activist.
> 
> •  Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University
> 
> •  Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view _(ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided)_ and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.
> 
> You will no doubt notice that the first speaker _(lawyer, journalist and activist)_ harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (*GCIV*) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the _GCIV_.  Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory).  And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.
> 
> ◈  The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian _(protected person or not)_ liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:
> 
> ✦  The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons _(no matter what their status)_.​
> The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion.  If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view


So? pick put something they said and oppose away.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't want just one state for themselves,
> 
> The Israeli’s want the entire middle east under exclusive Zionist domination, and then some...
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis have less than 1% of the entire middle east,
> Muslims have the remaining 99%.
> 
> Israel is the only nation in the middle east, though one of the smallest,
> that the Muslims can't manage to subdue on their way of achieving exclusive domination.
Click to expand...


I absolutely love that cartoon.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians' right of return is inevitable.



YAWN.,,,,,,  Keep dreaming.  Let them keep rioting and more will die
  Not even the “ International Community “ is demanding it
 What you don’t have the ability to understand is that the more they chant “ Free Palestine from the River to the Sea” the more they play into Israel’s hands





The Gaza March of Return: What You Need to Know


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the River to the Sea includes all of Israel!  That extremist view will never come to fruition, and it is futile and self-defeating to perpetuate that delusion.  Israel is a thriving country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It always seems impossible until it is done. ~ Nelson Mandela
Click to expand...


  Speaking from a Dead Man..... His time is up


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> They don't want just one state for themselves,
> 
> The Israeli’s want the entire middle east under exclusive Zionist domination, and then some...
> -





Middle East Map / Map of the Middle East - Facts, Geography, History of the Middle East - Worldatlas.com

   This is the Entire Middle East and the Israelis want it?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Chuckle*!*



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> 
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I think I just did, in my example.

But another example would be the intentional misdirection:

Without a determination of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or group, as implied in the case of Israel → and the UN A/RES3379 (XXX) records the _Determination _that zionism *is a form of racism and racial discrimination*.  This argument has already been fought and won by the Israelis.  

✧ *Elimination of racism and racial discrimination *A/RES/46/86 REVOCATION pertaining to A/RES/3379 (XXX) 16 December 1991 ✧​
I did not hear any of the panelists make mention that the formal accusation racism and discrimination had been revoked. This would be a very clear cut and very distinct example of an intentional misdirection _(Article 61, ICC Rome Statute)_:  "The Statute places an important obligation upon the Prosecutor to disclose evidence that is exculpatory, mitigating, or which may affect the credibility of prosecution evidence." (Quoted from the _Principles and Procedures of International Prosecutions_, pp 382.)

Normally, I would make such a point on the matter, especially with a layman, but the first speaker was a Lawyer.  But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such 
Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Chuckle*!*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> 
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I think I just did, in my example.
> 
> But another example would be the intentional misdirection:
> 
> Without a determination of oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or group, as implied in the case of Israel → and the UN A/RES3379 (XXX) records the _Determination _that zionism *is a form of racism and racial discrimination*.  This argument has already been fought and won by the Israelis.
> 
> ✧ *Elimination of racism and racial discrimination *A/RES/46/86 REVOCATION pertaining to A/RES/3379 (XXX) 16 December 1991 ✧​
> I did not hear any of the panelists make mention that the formal accusation racism and discrimination had been revoked. This would be a very clear cut and very distinct example of an intentional misdirection _(Article 61, ICC Rome Statute)_:  "The Statute places an important obligation upon the Prosecutor to disclose evidence that is exculpatory, mitigating, or which may affect the credibility of prosecution evidence." (Quoted from the _Principles and Procedures of International Prosecutions_, pp 382.)
> 
> Normally, I would make such a point on the matter, especially with a layman, but the first speaker was a Lawyer.  But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such
> Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such
> Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.


Nice deflection. Another example of sliming the source without addressing the content.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel putting "terrorists" in a cage.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority.  This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(PANELIST)*
> 
> •  Lawyer, journalist and activist.
> 
> •  Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University
> 
> •  Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view _(ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided)_ and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.
> 
> You will no doubt notice that the first speaker _(lawyer, journalist and activist)_ harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (*GCIV*) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the _GCIV_.  Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory).  And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.
> 
> ◈  The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian _(protected person or not)_ liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:
> 
> ✦  The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons _(no matter what their status)_.​
> The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion.  If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
Click to expand...



You could also address my comments.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are such a wise guy.



RoccoR said:


> But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.


Nice deflection. Another example of sliming the source without addressing the content.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

I addressed the content of the presenter very directly, in both previous replies _(• Posting #14230 --- Posting #14238 •)_.  The accusation was made and I presented exculpatory evidence to the contrary.

I explained the Presenter's accusation or inference → and → I presented the opposing view and favorable evidence that mitigate or exonerates the Israeli.  This original information you presented, and then made the challenge directly to me to dispute, is what I did...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> 
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
Click to expand...

And so I did.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> You are such a wise guy.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> But in my opinion, I find that this questions the integrity of the presentation when such Evidence that clear accused is intentionally omitted → coming dangerously close to malfeasance if it was an officially sanctioned presentation as an officer of the court.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection. Another example of sliming the source without addressing the content.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I addressed the content of the presenter very directly, in both previous replies _(• Posting #14230 --- Posting #14238 •)_.  The accusation was made and I presented exculpatory evidence to the contrary.

I explained the Presenter's accusation or inference → and → I presented the opposing view and favorable evidence that mitigate or exonerates the Israeli.  This original information you presented, and then made the challenge directly to me to dispute, is what I did...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> 
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
Click to expand...

And so I did.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
You are still shifting away from the issues she presented.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is not a sanctioned symposium by any officiating authority.  This is a quasi-activist organization; merely attempting to auction themselves off as being an authority.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> *(PANELIST)*
> 
> •  Lawyer, journalist and activist.
> 
> •  Professor of Political Science at Southern Illinois University
> 
> •  Associate Professor of Law, University of Western Ontario​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view _(ie "unbalanced or totally one-sided)_ and heavily relies on the capture of the emotion in the target audience.
> 
> You will no doubt notice that the first speaker _(lawyer, journalist and activist)_ harped on the point that the Fourth Geneva Convention (*GCIV*) however, the speaker made a specific point to impress the idea that the Arab Palestinians were protected person and victims under the _GCIV_.  Not once did the speaker allude to the fact that in 1967:
> 
> ◈  The Israeli capture of the West Bank was actually the occupation of Jordanian Sovereign Territory (not Palestinian Territory).  And that in 1988, the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem into the hands of the Israelis, cutting all ties (legal and political) knowing the only authority remaining was that of the Israelis.
> 
> ◈  The GCIV make the Arab Palestinian _(protected person or not)_ liable to internment or simple imprisonment for:
> 
> ✦  The attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Vandelism and damage the property of the occupying forces or administration.
> ✦  Espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power.
> ✦  Intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons _(no matter what their status)_.​
> The entire symposium goes on and on in this fashion.  If you are into this perspective or need to reinforce your anti-Israeli approach, then this is the video for you.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is, from the very beginning, is an attempt to present an _argumentum ad passiones_ without an opposing view
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So? pick put something they said and oppose away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You could also address my comments.
Click to expand...


He never dies when he’s defeated


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Na'eem Jeenah on Israeli Apartheid, Geneva, April 2015 (English / French) (English starts @ 3:45)*

**


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,

So, would someone be so kind as to what "issue" I am shifting away from...



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still shifting away from the issues she presented.


*(COMMENT)*

What is the issue he is talking about?

◈  I addressed the central issue to the accusation of "Apartheid" and "Racism."

◈  I addressed the issue that the Arab Palestinians violate the very international laws as a criminal party and not a protected person.​
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> **



In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
   There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”*
> 
> **



But you are perpetuating the settlements in the West Bank, and working together with Netanyahu, by refusing to recognize Israel proper.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Noura Erakat: U.S. Recognition of Israeli Settlements Is “Entrenchment of an Apartheid Regime”*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you are perpetuating the settlements in the West Bank, and working together with Netanyahu, by refusing to recognize Israel proper.
Click to expand...


Didn’t you see his previous post about the “ One State Solution?”
  When asked simple questions about Holy Sites he CANNOT answer
   Who would enforce this “ One State Solution” that was never recognized and never will be?
     No answer; just words


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
Click to expand...

*(REFERENCE)*

Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:

•  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;

•  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

_(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
_Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
*Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*

_Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*

If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law." 

There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:

◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
 Private property cannot be confiscated.

◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
 Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
 Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.

◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.

But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## watchingfromafar

Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.

-


----------



## ForeverYoung436

watchingfromafar said:


> Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.
> 
> -



But G-d told Abraham that He will bless anyone who blesses Abraham and his family.  The Jews are Abraham's family.  By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out.  You will be blessed by G-d.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.
> 
> -



Don”t like it? Move


----------



## watchingfromafar

ForeverYoung436 said:


> The Jews are Abraham's family. By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out. You will be blessed by G-d.



*God chose them but He could not force them to obey His word*

(Deu 7:6 KJV) _For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy *God hath chosen thee *to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth._

(Deu 7:7 KJV)_ The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; *for ye were the fewest of all people*:_

The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.

(Deu 1:16 KJV)  _And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him._

(Deu 10:19 KJV)  *Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.*

 (Deu 24:19 KJV)  _When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands._

(Deu 24:20 KJV)  _When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow._

(Deu 24:21 KJV)  _When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow._

Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----

(Ezek 36:17 KJV)  _Son of man, _*when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings*_: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman._

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) _Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it._

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) *Therefore say unto the house of Israel*_, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake_*, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.*

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) _For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land._

That gathering occurred in 1947ad

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) _Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations._

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) _Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel._

Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.

Then the Lord looked at his chosen once again to see what his children have done---

_September 3, 1947. *A postal bomb* addressed to the British War Office *exploded in the post office sorting room in London*, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. _

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. *Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others*_, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses.  *Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others*._

May 3, 1948. *A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer*_, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran._

May11, 1948. *A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker*_, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife._

And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------

*UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*

*An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit  a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

 In March 2003
Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

*Three-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.

5 June 2004
The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails

*An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
Lend me your swords
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land;* thou shalt be no more remembered:* for I the LORD have spoken _it_.

Google "IDF shooting children"
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Don”t like it? Move



You don't even live there and never intend to either
-


----------



## ForeverYoung436

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are Abraham's family. By giving money to Israel, you are not losing out. You will be blessed by G-d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *God chose them but He could not force them to obey His word*
> 
> (Deu 7:6 KJV) _For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy *God hath chosen thee *to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth._
> 
> (Deu 7:7 KJV)_ The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; *for ye were the fewest of all people*:_
> 
> The Lord chose them for a purpose and that purpose was to exemplify His teaching and from this example others would understand by this example and follow along this path bringing peace and tranquility to all.
> 
> (Deu 1:16 KJV)  _And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him._
> 
> (Deu 10:19 KJV)  *Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.*
> 
> (Deu 24:19 KJV)  _When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands._
> 
> (Deu 24:20 KJV)  _When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow._
> 
> (Deu 24:21 KJV)  _When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow._
> 
> Then time passed on and the Lord returned to see what His children have done to further His cause----
> 
> (Ezek 36:17 KJV)  _Son of man, _*when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings*_: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman._
> 
> (Ezek 36:18 KJV) _Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it._
> 
> (Ezek 36:22 KJV) *Therefore say unto the house of Israel*_, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake_*, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.*
> 
> (Ezek 36:24 KJV) _For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land._
> 
> That gathering occurred in 1947ad
> 
> (Ezek 36:31 KJV) _Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations._
> 
> (Ezek 36:32 KJV) _Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel._
> 
> Clearly the Jews of that day did not follow His instructions and the Lord was appalled at what He saw. This time period may mark the time they were scattered because of the discretions he was witness to.
> 
> Then the Lord looked at his chosen once again to see what his children have done---
> 
> _September 3, 1947. *A postal bomb* addressed to the British War Office *exploded in the post office sorting room in London*, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. _
> 
> December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. *Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others*_, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses.  *Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others*._
> 
> May 3, 1948. *A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer*_, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran._
> 
> May11, 1948. *A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker*_, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife._
> 
> And then as time passed on there was more for the Lord to see-------
> 
> 
> 
> * UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> 
> *An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit  a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html
> 
> In March 2003
> Photos of a *12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers *and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
> http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/
> 
> *Three-year-old *Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.
> 
> 5 June 2004
> The New Yorker’s Israel: Where Objectivity Fails
> 
> *An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead* by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
> Lend me your swords
> Ezekiel 21:32
> Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land;* thou shalt be no more remembered:* for I the LORD have spoken _it_.
> 
> Google "IDF shooting children"
> -
Click to expand...


Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"


----------



## watchingfromafar

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"



If your child was shot in the head by the IDF; what would you do-?

Instead of committing suicide by yourself, maybe take a few Israeli IDF killers with you?

*Google "IDF shooting children"*

Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
*https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*

*Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
*https://tinyurl.com/y92tvluh*

*2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.

The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
*https://tinyurl.com/y85ctr7v*

*12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes

Gaza girl said killed
By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
and Haaretz Service
Thu., October 28, 2004

*IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
*http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*

* UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
ue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765

* An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html

There are dozens more children killed in this way, what would you do--?
-


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  watchingfromafar, et al,

There are good inveestmentsinto the future, and there are those investments that come to nothing.  Of the 22 Arab League Nations in the Middle East and North African (MENA) Region, ask yourself: → Which of them are more developed → that are scientifically, technologically, and educationally productive than Israel. We are not just making a comparison to the Arab Palestinians, but the entire MENA Region. 

Name one just one!

Of the 22 Arab League Nations in the Middle East and North African (MENA) Region, ask yourself: → Which of them are more on the Human Development Index than Israel. Again, this is not just making a comparison to the Arab Palestinians, but the entire MENA Region.

Israel, by the UN assessment, is the leading country in the MENA Region that is postiviely assessing and making some advancements towards responding to inequalities in human development and the demands of its citizenry.  As the Arab Spring swept across many of the Regional members, Israel remained stable and uninterrupted by civil disobedience.




​Maybe it is time to dismantle the contribution and management of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)



watchingfromafar said:


> Israel is not America’s 51ST state. America needs to stop giving Israel billions$$ yearly.


*(COMMENT)*

You will notice that the US (alone) contributed more than a Billion dollors a year to the Palestinians until the Trump Administration reduced it.

There is a difference between helping the development of the single American Ally in the Region, and that of helping the Regional nations that are anything but an Ally.



_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child was shot in the head by the IDF; what would you do-?
> 
> Instead of committing suicide by yourself, maybe take a few Israeli IDF killers with you?
> 
> *Google "IDF shooting children"*
> 
> Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
> *https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*
> 
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
> *https://tinyurl.com/y92tvluh*
> 
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
> Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.
> 
> The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
> *https://tinyurl.com/y85ctr7v*
> 
> *12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
> Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
> A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes
> 
> Gaza girl said killed
> By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
> and Haaretz Service
> Thu., October 28, 2004
> 
> *IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
> *http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*
> 
> * UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
> ue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
> 
> * An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html
> 
> There are dozens more children killed in this way, what would you do--?
> -
Click to expand...



Do you really, in your heart, that the IDF as a whole, target Palestinian children? 

What does the IDF or Israel have to gain by PURPOSELY shooting children?


----------



## toastman

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child was shot in the head by the IDF; what would you do-?
> 
> Instead of committing suicide by yourself, maybe take a few Israeli IDF killers with you?
> 
> 
> -
Click to expand...



So you're saying that Palestinian suicide bombings only killed IDF soldiers?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

watchingfromafar said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google "Palestinian suicide bombings"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your child was shot in the head by the IDF; what would you do-?
> 
> Instead of committing suicide by yourself, maybe take a few Israeli IDF killers with you?
> 
> *Google "IDF shooting children"*
> 
> Nov 23, 2004 - Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing.
> *https://tinyurl.com/ybk8lvmq*
> 
> *Israel 'killed 25 Palestinian children' in three months*
> Twenty-five Palestinian children were killed in the last three months of 2015 during a wave of anti-Israeli attacks and the number detained was the highest in seven years, according to the UNICEF.
> *https://tinyurl.com/y92tvluh*
> 
> *2016 'deadliest year' for West Bank children in decade
> Israeli forces killed 32 Palestinian children* in the West Bank in 2016, the highest number in 10 years.
> 
> The organisation's chapter in the occupied Palestinian territories recorded the *killings of 32 Palestinian children (under 18), *making 2016 "the deadliest year of the past decade" for them, the group said in a recent report.
> *https://tinyurl.com/y85ctr7v*
> 
> *12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD* in front of your eyes
> Updated 9.48 p.m., 3rd Oct 2000
> A 12 Year old Boy Shot Dead in front of YOUR Eyes
> 
> Gaza girl said killed
> By Amos Harel and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents,
> and Haaretz Service
> Thu., October 28, 2004
> 
> *IDF troops shot and killed an 8-year-old Palestinian girl* who was on her way to school in a Gaza Strip refugee camp
> *http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/494672.html*
> 
> * UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
> ue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
> 
> * An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.*
> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487788.html
> 
> There are dozens more children killed in this way, what would you do--?
> -
Click to expand...


All of my cousins have served in the IDF.  Do you think they liked patrolling the West Bank?  They hated it, they're all leftists, and not particularly religious to boot. They would gladly give up the West Bank tomorrow, if only the Palestinians would behave like normal ppl, and also give up their dream of taking over all of israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."


Thanks for the link. BTW

"Voluntary" is not used in this link.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Reiterating its vision of a region where two democratic States, Israel and Palestine, live side by side in peace within secure and recognized borders,​
What law requires Palestine to be partitioned into two states?

Link?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


By declaring independence, which was recognized by most of the world. It was not a country before. 

It is now ,however, whether you like it or not Tinmore. Israel is a legit country, part of the United Nations, and recognized by most of the globe, except of course Islamic scum...and there is nothing you can do about it,


----------



## toastman

Isn't it ironic that Tinmore is asking others to back up their claims with links, when I have him to do just that countless times and he was nowhere to be found.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By declaring independence, which was recognized by most of the world. It was not a country before.
> 
> It is now ,however, whether you like it or not Tinmore. Israel is a legit country, part of the United Nations, and recognized by most of the globe, except of course Islamic scum...and there is nothing you can do about it,
Click to expand...




toastman said:


> declaring independence


Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?

Link?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


*Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
Click to expand...

The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.

U.N. vote.  ???

Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.

The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.

What else you got?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By declaring independence, which was recognized by most of the world. It was not a country before.
> 
> It is now ,however, whether you like it or not Tinmore. Israel is a legit country, part of the United Nations, and recognized by most of the globe, except of course Islamic scum...and there is nothing you can do about it,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> declaring independence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


The British, who controlled the territory at the time, voted to partition the land. Jews accepted, Arabs rejected. When the Arabs rejected, and saw that Jews were starting to build their country, they (Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon) attacked Israel and lost the war. 

Here's your link: 

How did Israel become a country in the first place?

Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country. You can't start a war, then whine when the people you attacked use that very land to start their own country.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.
> 
> U.N. vote.  ???
> 
> Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.
> 
> The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...


It wasn't implemented because Arabs rejected the deal. So the Jews moved forward and decided to build their own country, but were attacked. During the course of this war, the Jews won and created the country known as Israel. 

Arabs lost, Jews won. Deal with it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.
> 
> U.N. vote.  ???
> 
> Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.
> 
> The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...


Yes, the U.N. voted on November 29, 1947 to partition the geographic area known as Palestine into Jewish and Arab states.  The vote was 33 to 13, with 10 countries abstaining.  Based on this vote, Israel declared independence upon the expiration of the British Mandate.  Just like the United States or the Latin American countries declared independence, but without any vote authorizing them to do so.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.
> 
> U.N. vote.  ???
> 
> Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.
> 
> The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...





*United Nations Resolution 181*, resolution passed by the United Nations (UN) General Assembly in 1947 that called for the partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, with the city of Jerusalem as a _corpus separatum_ (Latin: “separate entity”) to be governed by a special international regime. The resolution—which was considered by the Jewish community in Palestine to be a legal basis for the establishment of Israel, and which was rejected by the Arab community—was succeeded almost immediately by violence.

   What else you got?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By declaring independence, which was recognized by most of the world. It was not a country before.
> 
> It is now ,however, whether you like it or not Tinmore. Israel is a legit country, part of the United Nations, and recognized by most of the globe, except of course Islamic scum...and there is nothing you can do about it,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> declaring independence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's your link:
> 
> How did Israel become a country in the first place?
> 
> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country. You can't start a war, then whine when the people you attacked use that very land to start their own country.
Click to expand...



  He denies that the " occupied territories"   FORMALLY became parts of Jordan ,  When Egypt had Gaza it was not referred to as " occupied"



to search




*Gaza Strip

قطاع غزة
Qiṭā‘ Ghazza*
1959–1967



Flag



 Coat of arms



Gaza Strip after the 1949 Armistice.
*Status* Area occupied by the United Arab Republic/Arab Republic of Egypt


e
The *occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt* occurred between 1949 and October 1956 and again from March 1957 to June 1967.

   Funny from everything I have read it is never referred to as an " occupation"




The British, who controlled the territory at the time, voted to partition the land. Jews accepted, Arabs rejected. When the Arabs rejected, and saw that Jews were starting to build their country, they (Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon) attacked Israel and lost the war.​


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: One State or Two?*
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.
> 
> U.N. vote.  ???
> 
> Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.
> 
> The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...


Again this routine?

The San Remo Conference, vested sovereignty over all of Palestine to the Jewish Nation, was founded on the basis of the Covenant of The League of Nations.

And the Balfour Declaration was further incorporated into international law and quoted in several treaties including the Mandate of Palestine and the Anglo-American convention.

*Indeed, there was no mention of allotting any territory for an Arab state.*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760; _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute: For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Thanks for the link. BTW
> "Voluntary" is not used in this link.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Well, ICC citation says "_*means forced displacement of the persons*_" and the GCIV Commentary (1958) says _*authorize voluntary transfers*._ 

Both were provided to you and highlighted so you would not miss it.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,

First (a), you are NOT quoting a "law."

First (b), the subtext to the 1948 (Question of Palestine) is the Israelis had exercised the right of self-determination in establishing the sovereign State of Israel.

This revised edition of “_The Question of Palestine and the United Nations_” reflects a number of milestones and events through the end of 2007. Foremost among these was the passage of 60 years since the adoption by the General Assembly in 1947 of resolution 181 (II), providing for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in the former Mandate territory of Palestine, with a special status for the holy city of Jerusalem. Also, it had been 40 years since the June 1967 war, the occupation by Israel of Egyptian and Syrian territory and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the adoption of Security Council resolution 242 (1967), which is the basis of all subsequent peace initiatives.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

Second, the 1967 War was a resumption of hostilities of the 1948 War of Independence _(an outbreak of hostilities)_.   And it was a matter of self-defense under Articles 2 and 51 of the Charter _(which is law)_.

Third, the territory was politically abandoned by the Jordanians _(not Arab Palestinian)_, which the Jordanians term as the disengagement of the West Bank _(1988 • "on July 31 King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.")_.

Fourth, the Palestine Liberations Organization _(PLO - the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people)_ agreed in writing and in front of international observers, to Oslo II _(one of the architects being Mahmoud Abbas)_, which gave the Israelis full Israeli civil and security control over the West Bank and Jerusalem.

※  I find it interesting is that you cannot quote an actual "LAW" that uses "acquisition of territory by force" and a court that suggests the 1948 application of the Right of Self-determination was an example of this "use of force."  My understanding is that the territory was in the hands of the UN Trustee System.

And the UN Trustee System never claimed that as the use of force.  

Nor has a court ruled on the Arab League Intervention.
Nor has the court defined a "border" or the Right to Protect borders.
Nor has a court taken into consideration of the Treaties of Peace _(both with Jordan and Egypt)_ and the establishment by treaty the permanent boundaries.

All countries have the right to protect their sovereign boundaries.  This boundary issue is no different from the dispute between the Kurds and the Turks --- the Kurds and Iraq.  What would the Turks say if the International Community sided with the Right to Self-Determination of the Kurds with regard to Iraq and Turkey?

No, you have the wrong concept of who has to bow to the Arab Palestinian.

Interesting side note:  With the ouster of progressive governments throughout Latin America and their replacement with right-wing neo-fascist regimes, Israeli counter-insurgency advisers, better known as "merchants of death," have returned to Latin America with fervor. Fascist-oriented regimes in Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Honduras, Paraguay, Guatemala, and Chile, eager to displace indigenous peoples, have invited the Israelis back to their nations to provide advice on depopulating indigenous regions as systematically as Israel has done to the Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.​
The current High Commissioner for Human Rights is Michelle Bachelet of Chile _(which has Israeli advisors on the ground in Chile)_.  Commissioner Bachelet, who succeeded Zeid Raad Al Hussein of Jordan.  Jordan has abandoned the Arab Palestinians of the West Bank.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?



Once again, you ask the most interesting questions, but will inevitably refuse to deal with the answers.

Sovereignty can ABSOLUTELY be acquired by unilateral declaration.  That is actually HOW it happens.  That is HOW new States come into being.  They unilaterally declare independence.  The entire foundation of the laws between States literally rests upon this principle.  

Now, you are trying to conflate "acquisition of territory" with "sovereignty".  (Its a distraction.  And you aren't fooling anyone.)  Still, since you brought it up, let's talk about "the acquisition of territory".

Your question supposes that in order to apply sovereignty, one must first legally acquire territory.  (I'd argue that is a false assumption. In order to apply sovereignty to a specific territory, one must be able to apply actual, facts-on-the-ground, real, measurable, effective control of the territory.)  But let's go with your assumption.

Territory can change hands in a number of ways.  It can be abandoned entirely.  It can be ceded specifically.  It can be negotiated in treaties.  

The territory of Palestine was abandoned entirely.  It was no longer under the sovereignty of any State. 

So here is where you won't acknowledge the reality which you actually presented with your question:  in a territory where there is an absolute ABSENCE of sovereignty, how else can sovereignty be obtained EXCEPT through unilateral declaration?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> [
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.




Your obsession with the nonsensical term "land treaties" is getting just a little bit ridiculous.  

The San Remo Conference and the Balfour Declaration (as made into law by the Mandate for Palestine) were treaties acknowledging the existing rights of a specific People (the Jewish people).

You know how you are always arguing that the UNGA and UNSC resolutions acknowledge the existing rights of the Palestinian people?  Yeah, that.  Its the same.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By declaring independence, which was recognized by most of the world. It was not a country before.
> 
> It is now ,however, whether you like it or not Tinmore. Israel is a legit country, part of the United Nations, and recognized by most of the globe, except of course Islamic scum...and there is nothing you can do about it,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> declaring independence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British, who controlled the territory at the time, voted to partition the land. Jews accepted, Arabs rejected. When the Arabs rejected, and saw that Jews were starting to build their country, they (Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon) attacked Israel and lost the war.
> 
> Here's your link:
> 
> How did Israel become a country in the first place?
> 
> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country. You can't start a war, then whine when the people you attacked use that very land to start their own country.
Click to expand...




toastman said:


> The British, who controlled the territory at the time, voted to partition the land.


The Mandates never acquired sovereignty. They had no authority to divide territory.



toastman said:


> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country.


The Palestinians attacked?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you ask the most interesting questions, but will inevitably refuse to deal with the answers.
> 
> Sovereignty can ABSOLUTELY be acquired by unilateral declaration.  That is actually HOW it happens.  That is HOW new States come into being.  They unilaterally declare independence.  The entire foundation of the laws between States literally rests upon this principle.
> 
> Now, you are trying to conflate "acquisition of territory" with "sovereignty".  (Its a distraction.  And you aren't fooling anyone.)  Still, since you brought it up, let's talk about "the acquisition of territory".
> 
> Your question supposes that in order to apply sovereignty, one must first legally acquire territory.  (I'd argue that is a false assumption. In order to apply sovereignty to a specific territory, one must be able to apply actual, facts-on-the-ground, real, measurable, effective control of the territory.)  But let's go with your assumption.
> 
> Territory can change hands in a number of ways.  It can be abandoned entirely.  It can be ceded specifically.  It can be negotiated in treaties.
> 
> The territory of Palestine was abandoned entirely.  It was no longer under the sovereignty of any State.
> 
> So here is where you won't acknowledge the reality which you actually presented with your question:  in a territory where there is an absolute ABSENCE of sovereignty, how else can sovereignty be obtained EXCEPT through unilateral declaration?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The territory of Palestine was abandoned entirely. It was no longer under the sovereignty of any State.


Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you ask the most interesting questions, but will inevitably refuse to deal with the answers.
> 
> Sovereignty can ABSOLUTELY be acquired by unilateral declaration.  That is actually HOW it happens.  That is HOW new States come into being.  They unilaterally declare independence.  The entire foundation of the laws between States literally rests upon this principle.
> 
> Now, you are trying to conflate "acquisition of territory" with "sovereignty".  (Its a distraction.  And you aren't fooling anyone.)  Still, since you brought it up, let's talk about "the acquisition of territory".
> 
> Your question supposes that in order to apply sovereignty, one must first legally acquire territory.  (I'd argue that is a false assumption. In order to apply sovereignty to a specific territory, one must be able to apply actual, facts-on-the-ground, real, measurable, effective control of the territory.)  But let's go with your assumption.
> 
> Territory can change hands in a number of ways.  It can be abandoned entirely.  It can be ceded specifically.  It can be negotiated in treaties.
> 
> The territory of Palestine was abandoned entirely.  It was no longer under the sovereignty of any State.
> 
> So here is where you won't acknowledge the reality which you actually presented with your question:  in a territory where there is an absolute ABSENCE of sovereignty, how else can sovereignty be obtained EXCEPT through unilateral declaration?
Click to expand...


When the United States and the Latin American countries declared independence, weren't those unilateral moves?  Did Britain and Spain support those declarations at the time?  Did the world vote on them, like it did with Israel?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.



The word 'peace' doesn't exist in Arabic.
The word 'Islam' comes from the root S-L-M, as in 'Salam' - means SUBMISSION.

Arabs never had peace among themselves, can't give it to anyone,
and neither know what it means.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.



Because Tinmore can’t get over 1948.


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Tinmore can’t get over 1948.
Click to expand...


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word 'peace' doesn't exist in Arabic.
> The word 'Islam' comes from the root S-L-M, as in 'Salam' - means SUBMISSION.
> 
> Arabs never had peace among themselves, can't give it to anyone,
> and neither know what it means.
Click to expand...


Do you have a graph with the comparisons?  I know that a million died in the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980's, about a quarter-million in the Syrian Civil War so far, and there's a war also going on in Yemen right now.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm of a mind that the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians believed that the 1948New State of Israel was going to be destroyed.  But their expectations were not the result. 



P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians attacked?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I believe our friend "toastman" has it right.  Had the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League accepted the A/RES/181 (II) Recommendations, there would have been a two-state solution already in place.  But the greedy and selfish Arab elements turned the reality down a differing path.  A path that leads us here.

I don't really think that the Arab League Leaders had any intention of creating a new Arab State, but were intending to carve-up the former Mandate territory amongst themselves.

The fact that the Israelis made such a fight of it, the Arab League had to alter their plans.  The fact that the Arab League failed, is the proximate cause of all the sniveling and whining by the Arab Palestinians over the lost expectations.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you ask the most interesting questions, but will inevitably refuse to deal with the answers.
> 
> Sovereignty can ABSOLUTELY be acquired by unilateral declaration.  That is actually HOW it happens.  That is HOW new States come into being.  They unilaterally declare independence.  The entire foundation of the laws between States literally rests upon this principle.
> 
> Now, you are trying to conflate "acquisition of territory" with "sovereignty".  (Its a distraction.  And you aren't fooling anyone.)  Still, since you brought it up, let's talk about "the acquisition of territory".
> 
> Your question supposes that in order to apply sovereignty, one must first legally acquire territory.  (I'd argue that is a false assumption. In order to apply sovereignty to a specific territory, one must be able to apply actual, facts-on-the-ground, real, measurable, effective control of the territory.)  But let's go with your assumption.
> 
> Territory can change hands in a number of ways.  It can be abandoned entirely.  It can be ceded specifically.  It can be negotiated in treaties.
> 
> The territory of Palestine was abandoned entirely.  It was no longer under the sovereignty of any State.
> 
> So here is where you won't acknowledge the reality which you actually presented with your question:  in a territory where there is an absolute ABSENCE of sovereignty, how else can sovereignty be obtained EXCEPT through unilateral declaration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the United States and the Latin American countries declared independence, weren't those unilateral moves?  Did Britain and Spain support those declarations at the time?  Did the world vote on them, like it did with Israel?
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> When the United States and the Latin American countries declared independence, weren't those unilateral moves?


Yes they were. However, back then there was no international law. Since then, the world has moved on to a more civilized world. Conquest is no longer acceptable. Israel is living in the past.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm of a mind that the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians believed that the 1948New State of Israel was going to be destroyed.  But their expectations were not the result.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians attacked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I believe our friend "toastman" has it right.  Had the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League accepted the A/RES/181 (II) Recommendations, there would have been a two-state solution already in place.  But the greedy and selfish Arab elements turned the reality down a differing path.  A path that leads us here.
> 
> I don't really think that the Arab League Leaders had any intention of creating a new Arab State, but were intending to carve-up the former Mandate territory amongst themselves.
> 
> The fact that the Israelis made such a fight of it, the Arab League had to alter their plans.  The fact that the Arab League failed, is the proximate cause of all the sniveling and whining by the Arab Palestinians over the lost expectations.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> So, would someone be so kind as to what "issue" I am shifting away from...
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still shifting away from the issues she presented.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What is the issue he is talking about?
> 
> ◈  I addressed the central issue to the accusation of "Apartheid" and "Racism."
> 
> ◈  I addressed the issue that the Arab Palestinians violate the very international laws as a criminal party and not a protected person.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This will give more clarity. Explains the system of apartheid.


----------



## watchingfromafar

RoccoR said:


> Which of them are more developed → that are scientifically, technologically, and educationally productive than Israel.



Which one in your list gets more money and technical assistance than Israel gets-?
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

P F Tinmore said:


> This will give more clarity.


Is Israel an Apartheid State-?

*a·part·heid*
_a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.segregation on grounds other than race._

*YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES*​
The most racist, apartheid state on this planet
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

For the sake of clarity, there is only one Country that has an official policy of assassinating children; only one

Anyone care to guess which country that is-?

-


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  ILOVEISRAEL, P F Tinmore, ForeverYoung436, et al,
> 
> As far as the video of Professor Noura Erakat is concerned, I actually do not have much to say about it.  The statement is a very good explanation for the position held by the Arab Palestinian.  There is, in fact, a legal basis for the status of the settlement.
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the “One State Solution” who would decide what Holy Sites one would have access to and who would enforce it?
> There will be no response because he honestly can’t answer the question. Keep dreaming.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> Of course, Professor Erakat is referring to:
> 
> •  Article 7(1d):  Crimes Against Humanity:  Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
> 
> •  Article 49(6): Fourth Geneva Convention:  The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
> 
> _(4) [(2) p.279] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 759-760;  _
> _Conference decided to *authorize voluntary transfers by implication*, and only to prohibit "forcible" transfers (4)._
> *Found in the "Commentary of 1958."*
> 
> _Article 7(2d), ICC Rome Statute:  For the purposes of the International Criminal Court and Article 7(1d) Above → Deportation or forcible transfer of population" *means forced displacement of the persons concerned by expulsion or other coercive acts* from the area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; _​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> If you actually look-up the Law, both Customary _(Rome Statutes ICC)_ and International Humanitarian Law _(Fourth Geneva Convention)_ you will find that neither prohibits "voluntary" transfers and negates the concept that the settlements constitute a "flagrant violation under international law."
> 
> There are a couple of arguments to be made that reloves around some specific prohibitions:
> 
> ◈  Article 46 • Hague Regulation of 1907:  Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.
> Private property cannot be confiscated.
> 
> ◈  Article 52 • Hague Regulation of 1907: Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.
> Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.
> Contributions in kind shall as far is possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.
> 
> ◈  Article 53 (GCIV) of the Fourth Geneva Convention:  Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.​
> But as you go through them, you will see that they are not absolute.  Nor do these positions agree with Conventions on Border Controls, Anti-Terrorist Bombing Countermeasure, Enforcement on Small Arms Trafficking, (etc, etc, etc) and financial restrictions.
> 
> But I say again, for a sound bite, nothing that Professor Noura Erakat said is worth quibbling about.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,​
> How did Israel acquire the 1948 territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yawn*, again?  Seriously?  San Remo Conference, Balfour Declaration, U.N. vote, Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan, etc.  When will you realize it is 2020, and not 1948 anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The San Remo Conference, and Balfour Declaration were not land treaties.
> 
> U.N. vote.  ???
> 
> Israel taking over the territory allocated to it under the U.N. Partition Plan.
> 
> The partition plan was rejected and never implemented. There was no allotted territory.
> 
> What else you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *United Nations Resolution 181*, resolution passed by the United Nations (UN) General Assembly in 1947 that called for the partition of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states, with the city of Jerusalem as a _corpus separatum_ (Latin: “separate entity”) to be governed by a special international regime. The resolution—which was considered by the Jewish community in Palestine to be a legal basis for the establishment of Israel, and which was rejected by the Arab community—was succeeded almost immediately by violence.
> 
> What else you got?
Click to expand...



YAWN.,,,, No answer from Tinmore. When all he can do is respond with a “ Smiley Face” that says it all 
  He’s not rebutting it because he can’t


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.



Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.  

And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.  

Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Yes they were. However, back then there was no international law. Since then, the world has moved on to a more civilized world. Conquest is no longer acceptable. Israel is living in the past.



Can you point to me exactly what year it became "illegal" to unilaterally declare independence?


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This will give more clarity.
> 
> 
> 
> Is Israel an Apartheid State-?
> 
> *a·part·heid*
> _a policy or system of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race.segregation on grounds other than race._
> 
> *YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES*​
> The most racist, apartheid state on this planet
> -
Click to expand...


There is no policy or system of segregation or discrimination based on race (or ethnicity) in Israel.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> For the sake of clarity, there is only one Country that has an official policy of assassinating children; only one
> 
> Anyone care to guess which country that is-?
> 
> -



There is no country which has an official policy of assassinating children.  There are countries and pseudo-countries which have a policy of deliberately employing child soldiers, which is morally reprehensible and obviously illegal.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ watchingfromafar, et al,

Is it America's "duty" to provide money and technical assistance to each of the nations in the Regional Area?  Much of the Arab League can be described as having an insufficient economic growth and high unemployment among youth. 

The application of American Aid Regional Area is not solely in the form of military assistance and access to certain defense technologies.  Aid addresses the need for economics, education and communication, culture, institutions of democracy, social welfare, and health.   And it also considers the strategic location like Egypt and its proximity to the Suez Canal.

US Aid is NOT dished-out on an equal basis.  US Aid of all types is awarded on that basis of that which is in the best interest of America.  There will always be countries that are not considered for aid, and there is going to be a range of values awarded _(all agencies)_.  One or another country will be the nation receiving the most.

≈ $3.2B → Israel
≈ $1.5B → Jordan
≈ $370M → Egypt
≈ $891M → Syria
≈ $506M → Lebanon
_Partially reported year(s): 2018, 2019 _​
Notice that the Arab League Regional Nations adjacent to Israel receives aid that is approximately the same as that awarded to Israel.  This does not include the ≈ $400M annually to the  West Bank/Gaza.



watchingfromafar said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which of them are more developed → than are scientifically, technologically, and educationally productive than Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one in your list gets more money and technical assistance than Israel gets-?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

But traditionally, most of the MENA/Arab League Nations was not the best of Allies to America.  And that often leads to an attitude of less aisstance by the American Public.  The TOP 10 US Allies are _(form the best to the least)_:

◈  The United Kigdom
◈  Canada
◈  Israel
◈  Japan
◈  South Korea
◈  France
◈  Australia
◈  Germany
◈  India
◈  Spain​
The UK, Canada, Australia, and India are all related through the Commonwealth of Nations.  But only Israel is the top aid reciepient and ranks third as the best US Ally.



_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.

Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dozens of Palestinians participate in a vigil in protest of demolish Palestinian homes by Israeli occupation authorities in the occupied city of Lod


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
Click to expand...



  Another lie. 

https://www.historylearningsite.co....dle-east-1917-to-1973/palestine-1918-to-1948/


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




  THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE ISRAELIS SAY!   THANKS TINMORE!    




Abbas in Antisemitic speech claims Jews' "social role that was connected to usury, and banks" caused Antisemitism, Holocaust; claims some Jews are descended from Khazars; denies Jewish connection to Israel | PMW Translations




The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejects recognition of Israel which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates "liberation of all of Palestine".[17][18] The new document also states that the group doesn't seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
Click to expand...


The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.

Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.






Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
*Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
- not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
Click to expand...


The Territory was” Palestine “ not the Country


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm of a mind that the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians believed that the 1948New State of Israel was going to be destroyed.  But their expectations were not the result.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had the Arabs not attacked, Palestinians would have their own country.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians attacked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I believe our friend "toastman" has it right.  Had the Arab Palestinians and the Arab League accepted the A/RES/181 (II) Recommendations, there would have been a two-state solution already in place.  But the greedy and selfish Arab elements turned the reality down a differing path.  A path that leads us here.
> 
> I don't really think that the Arab League Leaders had any intention of creating a new Arab State, but were intending to carve-up the former Mandate territory amongst themselves.
> 
> The fact that the Israelis made such a fight of it, the Arab League had to alter their plans.  The fact that the Arab League failed, is the proximate cause of all the sniveling and whining by the Arab Palestinians over the lost expectations.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


LOL

Coming from you Tinmore, the king of Palestinian lies, propaganda and deflection, that i just funny !

Rocco provided links to all his claims, what have you provided so far? ZERO !


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand why we keep going back to 1948, when we are 3 generations beyond that point.  It would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem of peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples right here, and right now.  And they are 2 distinct peoples now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word 'peace' doesn't exist in Arabic.
> The word 'Islam' comes from the root S-L-M, as in 'Salam' - means SUBMISSION.
> 
> Arabs never had peace among themselves, can't give it to anyone,
> and neither know what it means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a graph with the comparisons?  I know that a million died in the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980's, about a quarter-million in the Syrian Civil War so far, and there's a war also going on in Yemen right now.
Click to expand...


Yes,
Arabs killing Arabs exceeds all casualties in wars they had with Israel,
or anyone else.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those inaccurate pieces of information which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis declared independence on 15 MAY 1948 _(four months before the Palestines puppet regime)_.
The All Palestine Government _(formed by former enemy Ottoman Officers)_, a phantom government under the control of the Egyptians, declared independence in 22 SEP 1948 _(four months after the Israelis)_.

President Gamal Abdel Nasser officially disbanded the All-Palestine Government in 1959.

Remember thee APG, had no financial system or treasury, civil service, postal system, diplomatic service, or a way to fund their government.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another lie.
> 
> https://www.historylearningsite.co....dle-east-1917-to-1973/palestine-1918-to-1948/
Click to expand...

Where is the lie?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those inaccurate pieces of information which is deliberately intended to deceive the reader.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis declared independence on 15 MAY 1948 _(four months before the Palestines puppet regime)_.
> The All Palestine Government _(formed by former enemy Ottoman Officers)_, a phantom government under the control of the Egyptians, declared independence in 22 SEP 1948 _(four months after the Israelis)_.
> 
> President Gamal Abdel Nasser officially disbanded the All-Palestine Government in 1959.
> 
> Remember thee APG, had no financial system or treasury, civil service, postal system, diplomatic service, or a way to fund their government.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
Click to expand...

Links?

Of course not.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


Did international law mention any Arab nation in reference to sovereignty over that territory,
other than the Jewish Nation?

Of course not.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. Governments or states are not required. The Palestinians have never abandoned their territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did international law mention any Arab nation in reference to sovereignty over that territory,
> other than the Jewish Nation?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

You're welcome.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither the Jewish Palestinians nor the Arab Palestinians have abandoned their territory.  Hence the conflict between them.
> 
> And while its not strictly true that sovereignty is in the hands of the people, I agree, generally, with the concept.  So, going back to your original question ("territory can be acquired by unilateral declaration?"), of course it can.  The people, who hold sovereignty, unilaterally declare that sovereignty.  They don't have it granted to them by others.  They don't wait for others to recognize them.  They simply declare it.
> 
> Israel did it in 1948.  Palestine did it in 1988.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did international law mention any Arab nation in reference to sovereignty over that territory,
> other than the Jewish Nation?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> You're welcome.
Click to expand...


That's 4 years after int. law allotted Palestine for sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
And still no mention of any Arab nation in that reference.

Try again.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians declared independence on its own land in 1948.
> 
> Israel declared independence on Palestinian land in 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did international law mention any Arab nation in reference to sovereignty over that territory,
> other than the Jewish Nation?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's 4 years after int. law allotted Palestine for sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> And still no mention of any Arab nation in that reference.
> 
> Try again.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> And still no mention of any Arab nation in that reference.


Of course not. They were Palestinians.

The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.

Odd thing to do in a Jewish nation, what?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm not sure that this is not just plain intentionally false.



P F Tinmore said:


> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.


*(COMMENT)*

Who transferred what territory _(and when)_ to the → Arab Palestinians?

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only nation in 1948 that identified as, and legally vested with sovereignty
> over all of "Palestinian land" was the Jewish Nation.
> 
> Loser Arabs, merely committed a post factum copyright infringement.
> The whole charade runs on forging a false identity - and without it holds no water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another embarrassing  example of Arabs exposing their own lies:
> *Mahmoud Abbas gifts the King of Saudi Arabia a framed "Palestine Post" newspaper
> - not knowing it's a Jewish Zionist publication.*
> 
> 
> 
> Links?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did international law mention any Arab nation in reference to sovereignty over that territory,
> other than the Jewish Nation?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: “The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.”123 And, thereafter, “Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.”124
> 
> Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipso facto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's 4 years after int. law allotted Palestine for sovereignty of the Jewish Nation.
> And still no mention of any Arab nation in that reference.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And still no mention of any Arab nation in that reference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. They were Palestinians.
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Odd thing to do in a Jewish nation, what?
Click to expand...


Seems we agree, 
there's no Arab sovereignty mentioned referring to Palestine in international law.

Then what does it mean regarding the legality of the demands for an Arab country,
inside the territory allotted solely for Jewish sovereignty?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is not just plain intentionally false.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Who transferred what territory _(and when)_ to the → Arab Palestinians?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It's right in front of your face. How can you miss it?

Must be those Israel colored glasses.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is not just plain intentionally false.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Who transferred what territory _(and when)_ to the → Arab Palestinians?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's right in front of your face. How can you miss it?
> 
> Must be those Israel colored glasses.
Click to expand...


Funny how every time you bring up the same cut n' pastes,
but fail to point exactly how it supports the claim.

Must be that famous herd mentality that made Arabs so advanced and victorious...


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course not. They were Palestinians.
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Odd thing to do in a Jewish nation, what?




No. No. No.  The territory was NOT transferred to the (non-existent) "State of Palestine".  You really do struggle with the most basic understanding of international law, don't you?

IF a territory is being transferred from one State to another State -- those two STATES would be the two PARTIES to the agreement.  The wording would look something like this:

_Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Palestine all rights and title to the following (territory) _.... after which, the territory would be described.  And the Parties to the agreement would have been Turkey and Palestine.  They would have been named and would have been signatories.  We KNOW that this is the correct wording because the Treaty of Lausanne, Article 15 reads:  _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title to the following (territory)  ...  _Turkey and Italy are signatories to the agreement. 

It is a blatant falsehood to claim that the territory was transferred from Turkey to the "State of Palestine" with the Treaty of Lausanne.

The WHOLE POINT of the Mandate system was to put in place a transitional government until the territories could develop government institutions of their own.  If the State of Palestine already existed, and were capable of entering into agreements with other States, they would have done so. It didn't, they weren't, they didn't.

What actually happened with the Treaty of Lausanne is that Turkey abandoned the territory, and left it up to the other Parties to the agreement how the territory would be managed during the transition period and what the procedure for transfer would be. The Mandate documents then outlined the procedure for transferring the territory to the people for whom it was being held.  Remember how you said that sovereignty was held by the people?
*
WHICH PEOPLE were the recipients of the development of government institutions in preparation for sovereignty? * The Jewish people.

The Jewish people.


Now, you can argue all you like that this was unfair to a specific group of Arabs.  You can argue all you want that the Arab Palestinians, along with the Jewish Palestinians and the Jordanian Palestinians, SHOULD have had the chance at self-determination and sovereignty and the development of self-governing institutions.  (Though, let's be honest, its been a hundred years and they are BAD at it.  Really, really bad at it.)  

But continuing to put forward this blatant falsehood which your own source document clearly refutes is beyond ridiculous.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. They were Palestinians.
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> Odd thing to do in a Jewish nation, what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. No. No.  The territory was NOT transferred to the (non-existent) "State of Palestine".  You really do struggle with the most basic understanding of international law, don't you?
> 
> IF a territory is being transferred from one State to another State -- those two STATES would be the two PARTIES to the agreement.  The wording would look something like this:
> 
> _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Palestine all rights and title to the following (territory) _.... after which, the territory would be described.  And the Parties to the agreement would have been Turkey and Palestine.  They would have been named and would have been signatories.  We KNOW that this is the correct wording because the Treaty of Lausanne, Article 15 reads:  _Turkey hereby renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title to the following (territory)  ...  _Turkey and Italy are signatories to the agreement.
> 
> It is a blatant falsehood to claim that the territory was transferred from Turkey to the "State of Palestine" with the Treaty of Lausanne.
> 
> The WHOLE POINT of the Mandate system was to put in place a transitional government until the territories could develop government institutions of their own.  If the State of Palestine already existed, and were capable of entering into agreements with other States, they would have done so. It didn't, they weren't, they didn't.
> 
> What actually happened with the Treaty of Lausanne is that Turkey abandoned the territory, and left it up to the other Parties to the agreement how the territory would be managed during the transition period and what the procedure for transfer would be. The Mandate documents then outlined the procedure for transferring the territory to the people for whom it was being held.  Remember how you said that sovereignty was held by the people?
> *
> WHICH PEOPLE were the recipients of the development of government institutions in preparation for sovereignty? * The Jewish people.
> 
> The Jewish people.
> 
> 
> Now, you can argue all you like that this was unfair to a specific group of Arabs.  You can argue all you want that the Arab Palestinians, along with the Jewish Palestinians and the Jordanian Palestinians, SHOULD have had the chance at self-determination and sovereignty and the development of self-governing institutions.  (Though, let's be honest, its been a hundred years and they are BAD at it.  Really, really bad at it.)
> 
> But continuing to put forward this blatant falsehood which your own source document clearly refutes is beyond ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!

You write a half page of balderdash  trying to explain away what two short, simple articles clearly state.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!
> 
> You write a half page of balderdash  trying to explain away what two short, simple articles clearly state.



I wouldn't have to write so much if you could demonstrate just a basic understanding of international law and, better yet, would stop posting blatant lies. 

Here are the two relevant, short, simple articles with respect your false claim that the territory was transferred to the State of Palestine:

_ARTICLE 15.

*Turkey renounces in favour of Italy all rights and title over the following* islands: Stampalia (Astrapalia), Rhodes (Rhodos), Calki (Kharki), Scarpanto, Casos (Casso), Piscopis (Tilos), Misiros (Nisyros), Calimnos (Kalymnos), Leros, Patmos, Lipsos (Lipso), Simi (Symi), and Cos (Kos), which are now occupied by Italy, and the islets dependent thereon, and also over the island of Castellorizzo.


ARTICLE I6.

*Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty* and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, *the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.*_


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm not sure that this is not just plain intentionally false.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The land was transferred to the state of Palestine. The people who lived there became Palestinian citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Who transferred what territory _(and when)_ to the → Arab Palestinians?
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's right in front of your face. How can you miss it?
> 
> Must be those Israel colored glasses.
Click to expand...

So in other words, you don’t have an answer, as usual .


----------



## Shusha

And here is the relevant Article concerning citizenship:

_ARTICLE 30.

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred._



This DOES NOT say that Turkish subjects will become citizens of the State of Palestine.  It says they will become nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred, according to the local law of that new State.  The new State, to which the territory was transferred, was Israel.


----------



## Shusha

Now, if you want to discuss something interesting, let's talk about Article 32.

_ARTICLE 32.

Persons over eighteen years of age, habitually resident in territory detached from Turkey in accordance with the present Treaty, and differing in race from the majority of the population of such territory shall, within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, be entitled to opt for the nationality of one of the States in which the majority of the population is of the same race as the person exercising the right to opt, subject to the consent of that State._



What I find interesting about this is the assumption of the time that people both wanted to and would be expected to live in a homogeneous population of their own ethnic background.  

(Yes, I realize this is considered morally problematic to our modern sensibilities, but at the time, it was the expectation.)


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> And here is the relevant Article concerning citizenship:
> 
> _ARTICLE 30.
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred._
> 
> 
> 
> This DOES NOT say that Turkish subjects will become citizens of the State of Palestine.  It says they will become nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred, according to the local law of that new State.  The new State, to which the territory was transferred was Israel.





Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia





In Palestine, the Balfour Declaration's "national home for the Jewish people" was to be established alongside the Palestinian Arabs, who composed the vast majority of the local population; this requirement and others, however, would not apply to the separate Arab emirate to be established in Transjordan. The British controlled Palestine for almost three decades, overseeing a succession of protests, riots and revolts between the Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was passed on 29 November 1947, envisaging the creation of separate Jewish and Arab states operating under economic union with Jerusalem transferred to UN trusteeship. Two weeks later, Colonial Secretary Arthur Creech Jones announced that the British Mandate would end on 15 May 1948. On the last day of the Mandate, the creation of the State of Israel was proclaimed and the 1948 Arab–Israeli War began. 

    The British did not control a Country; they controlled a Territory.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore has a vision impairment which makes the Mandate for Palestine invisible to him.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore has a vision impairment which makes the Mandate for Palestine invisible to him.



According to him the U.N did not declare Israel to be a Country.


----------



## Shusha

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore has a vision impairment which makes the Mandate for Palestine invisible to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to him the U.N did not declare Israel to be a Country.
Click to expand...


Well, he's actually right about that.  The UN does not have the legal capacity to declare new States or cause them to come into existence.  (New States cause and declare that themselves).  What the UN offers is recognition of new States in the form of acceptance of membership in the UN.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> And here is the relevant Article concerning citizenship:
> 
> _ARTICLE 30.
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred._
> 
> 
> 
> This DOES NOT say that Turkish subjects will become citizens of the State of Palestine.  It says they will become nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred, according to the local law of that new State.  The new State, to which the territory was transferred, was Israel.





Shusha said:


> in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.



So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.

Where does your confusion come in?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the relevant Article concerning citizenship:
> 
> _ARTICLE 30.
> 
> Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipsofacto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred._
> 
> 
> 
> This DOES NOT say that Turkish subjects will become citizens of the State of Palestine.  It says they will become nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred, according to the local law of that new State.  The new State, to which the territory was transferred, was Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> Where does your confusion come in?
Click to expand...


Palestine was a Territory; not a Country . Where does your confusion come in?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.



No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time. 

The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.  

The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.


----------



## toastman

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore has a vision impairment which makes the Mandate for Palestine invisible to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to him the U.N did not declare Israel to be a Country.
Click to expand...


According to Tinmore, Israel has no borders LOL


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore has a vision impairment which makes the Mandate for Palestine invisible to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to him the U.N did not declare Israel to be a Country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to Tinmore, Israel has no borders LOL
Click to expand...


Ask what the difference between Armistice lines and borders there is no answer
   If Israel has no borders then they don’t have to comply with “ 67 Borders” we hear so much about


----------



## P F Tinmore

British students take action for justice for Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Does it really require this number of heavily armed Zionist occupation soldiers to kidnap this 5 years old Palestinian terrorist!,


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Does it really require this number of heavily armed Zionist occupation soldiers to kidnap this 5 years old Palestinian terrorist!,



Link that proves this child is being kidnapped??
'


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Does it really require this number of heavily armed Zionist occupation soldiers to kidnap this 5 years old Palestinian terrorist!,



Does any Sane person really believe that the Israeli Military is arresting a five year old? 
  Where’s the link to that fairy tale?


----------



## P F Tinmore

This morning, Israeli occupation forces have messed with the houses contents of more than 30 Palestinians have been arrested in the occupied #Jerusalem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

In another big blow to Israel’s efforts to thwart the growing boycott campaign, the largest student organization in Canada voted on Monday to support Palestinian rights.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.


With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_

“(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
(2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​https://journals.openedition.org/bcrfj/6405#ftn92


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning my friends --
Apartheid in occupied Palestine!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!



Yes My Friends;
    A Wall between them and “ Israel
proper”
     A area that even if there was to be a Palestinian State not ONE Israeli would have the Right to be there.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>











Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia

  Please,

    Keep posting


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> There is no policy or system of segregation or discrimination based on race (or ethnicity) in Israel.



I have no business posting in this thread. I am bowing out unless prompted to return
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

I will end my visit here with this------------

(Ezek 36:17 KJV)  *Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.*

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) _Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it._

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) *Therefore say unto the house of Israel*_, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went._

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) _For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land._

*That gathering occurred in 1947ad*​
(Ezek 36:31 KJV) _Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations._

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) *Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.*

31 *And I will pour out my indignation upon you*_, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy._

32 _You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; *you shall be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

Going, going, gone

-


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> I will end my visit here with this------------
> 
> (Ezek 36:17 KJV)  *Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.*
> 
> (Ezek 36:18 KJV) _Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it._
> 
> (Ezek 36:22 KJV) *Therefore say unto the house of Israel*_, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went._
> 
> (Ezek 36:24 KJV) _For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land._
> 
> *That gathering occurred in 1947ad*​
> (Ezek 36:31 KJV) _Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations._
> 
> (Ezek 36:32 KJV) *Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.*
> 
> 31 *And I will pour out my indignation upon you*_, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy._
> 
> 32 _You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; *you shall be no more remembered*: for I the LORD have spoken it._
> 
> According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."
> 
> Going, going, gone
> 
> -






Jewish Religion, Demographics and Population | PEW-GRF

   Nice try; GOYIM


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Good morning my friends --
> Apartheid in occupied Palestine!



Apartheid US


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_
> 
> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​
Click to expand...



Yes.  This is not in dispute.  

What IS in dispute is:

1.  That this distinction of citizenship creates a State (it does not).
2.  That this distinction of citizenship transfers territory to a State (it does not).

All this distinction of citizenship does is determine that the inhabitants (and immigrants) are neither Turkish subjects nor British subjects.  They are a distinct group.  But, like the Mandate itself, it is only an intermediary step.  Why?  Because the government responsible for the subjects was the Mandate of Palestine, as established and run by the British trustees.  

They were not self-governing and did not fulfill the requirements for Statehood.


----------



## Shusha

watchingfromafar said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no policy or system of segregation or discrimination based on race (or ethnicity) in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no business posting in this thread.
> -
Click to expand...


Given that your contribution to I/P is limited to vile, toxic antisemitism of both the secular and the religious sort and you seem to have neither interest nor information concerning the issues involved, I would tend to agree.

If you wish to continue to champion the genocide and disappearance of the Jewish people, there are other places on the internet which would be happy to accommodate you, I'm sure.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_
> 
> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This is not in dispute.
> 
> What IS in dispute is:
> 
> 1.  That this distinction of citizenship creates a State (it does not).
> 2.  That this distinction of citizenship transfers territory to a State (it does not).
> 
> All this distinction of citizenship does is determine that the inhabitants (and immigrants) are neither Turkish subjects nor British subjects.  They are a distinct group.  But, like the Mandate itself, it is only an intermediary step.  Why?  Because the government responsible for the subjects was the Mandate of Palestine, as established and run by the British trustees.
> 
> They were not self-governing and did not fulfill the requirements for Statehood.
Click to expand...


Do I understand this correctly - *personal citizenship* ≠ *national sovereignty*?


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_
> 
> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This is not in dispute.
> 
> What IS in dispute is:
> 
> 1.  That this distinction of citizenship creates a State (it does not).
> 2.  That this distinction of citizenship transfers territory to a State (it does not).
> 
> All this distinction of citizenship does is determine that the inhabitants (and immigrants) are neither Turkish subjects nor British subjects.  They are a distinct group.  But, like the Mandate itself, it is only an intermediary step.  Why?  Because the government responsible for the subjects was the Mandate of Palestine, as established and run by the British trustees.
> 
> They were not self-governing and did not fulfill the requirements for Statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do I understand this correctly -  personal citizenship ≠ national sovereignty?
Click to expand...


Yes.  I think you do.

Nationality or citizenship is a relationship between an individual and a sovereign, which typically entails both parties having certain obligations as well as privileges.

The question on the table is this:  Between 1922 and 1948(or 1988), what sovereign had a legal relationship with the "citizens of the territory of Palestine"?

The answer, of course, is Britain, as trustee for the territory until such time as the territory was self-governed.

P F Tinmore is trying to argue that the "citizens of Palestine" had a relationship with a different entity, which he calls "State of Palestine".  It simply isn't factual, because such a thing didn't exist.  There was no such sovereign to have a relationship with.


----------



## Mindful

Congratulations to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas for just entering the 16th year of his 4-year term.


----------



## watchingfromafar

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Nice try; GOYIM



Oh poor baby, are you resorting to calling me names?
-


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try; GOYIM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh poor baby, are you resorting to calling me names?
> -
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the truth hurts.  Its a legitimate word. What else would you call someone who would celebrate the thought of Jews being eliminated ?


----------



## watchingfromafar

Shusha said:


> Given that your contribution to I/P is limited to vile, toxic antisemitism



Bla, bla, bla and then one big fart [OOOOO]
Smell it now?
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> What else would you call someone who would celebrate the thought of Jews being eliminated ?



I don’t celebrate the death of anyone, period, no exceptions. And I have nothing against Jews; no, none, nada; zip.

There is one very big difference between being Jewish and being an IDF soldier who gets pleasure in shooting Palestinian children in the head.

Only one country on this planet tells its soldiers to assassinate children; care to guess which one that is-?

*UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
* An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
Girl, 11, shot in Gaza school*

-


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what state's local law gave its people citizenship?
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> Hmmm, it seems it was Palestine. And that would mean that the territory was transferred to Palestine. And Palestine was called a state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_
> 
> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This is not in dispute.
> 
> What IS in dispute is:
> 
> 1.  That this distinction of citizenship creates a State (it does not).
> 2.  That this distinction of citizenship transfers territory to a State (it does not).
> 
> All this distinction of citizenship does is determine that the inhabitants (and immigrants) are neither Turkish subjects nor British subjects.  They are a distinct group.  But, like the Mandate itself, it is only an intermediary step.  Why?  Because the government responsible for the subjects was the Mandate of Palestine, as established and run by the British trustees.
> 
> They were not self-governing and did not fulfill the requirements for Statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do I understand this correctly -  personal citizenship ≠ national sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  I think you do.
> 
> Nationality or citizenship is a relationship between an individual and a sovereign, which typically entails both parties having certain obligations as well as privileges.
> 
> The question on the table is this:  Between 1922 and 1948(or 1988), what sovereign had a legal relationship with the "citizens of the territory of Palestine"?
> 
> The answer, of course, is Britain, as trustee for the territory until such time as the territory was self-governed.
> 
> P F Tinmore is trying to argue that the "citizens of Palestine" had a relationship with a different entity, which he calls "State of Palestine".  It simply isn't factual, because such a thing didn't exist.  There was no such sovereign to have a relationship with.
Click to expand...

Don't blame me. Argue with the documents.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is disputing that the territory was labelled "Palestine" by the relevant Parties of the time.
> 
> The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way transfer territory from one sovereign (State) to another sovereign (State).  The fact that the territory was labelled "Palestine" does not in any way bring a State into being.
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate.  As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.  This was true until they met the requirements for forming a State and declared independence.  1948 for the Jewish Palestinian people and 1988 for the Arab Palestinian people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The territory of "Palestine" was a territory under control of the Mandate. As such, the citizens of Palestine were citizens of the Mandate for Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1_923:_
> 
> “(1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them…”92​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  This is not in dispute.
> 
> What IS in dispute is:
> 
> 1.  That this distinction of citizenship creates a State (it does not).
> 2.  That this distinction of citizenship transfers territory to a State (it does not).
> 
> All this distinction of citizenship does is determine that the inhabitants (and immigrants) are neither Turkish subjects nor British subjects.  They are a distinct group.  But, like the Mandate itself, it is only an intermediary step.  Why?  Because the government responsible for the subjects was the Mandate of Palestine, as established and run by the British trustees.
> 
> They were not self-governing and did not fulfill the requirements for Statehood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do I understand this correctly -  personal citizenship ≠ national sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.  I think you do.
> 
> Nationality or citizenship is a relationship between an individual and a sovereign, which typically entails both parties having certain obligations as well as privileges.
> 
> The question on the table is this:  Between 1922 and 1948(or 1988), what sovereign had a legal relationship with the "citizens of the territory of Palestine"?
> 
> The answer, of course, is Britain, as trustee for the territory until such time as the territory was self-governed.
> 
> P F Tinmore is trying to argue that the "citizens of Palestine" had a relationship with a different entity, which he calls "State of Palestine".  It simply isn't factual, because such a thing didn't exist.  There was no such sovereign to have a relationship with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't blame me. Argue with the documents.
Click to expand...



List all the documents between 1922 and 1948 in which the State of Palestine is a signatory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces entered the Shuafat refugee camp on Wednesday, sealed off its entry and exit points, positioned snipers on rooftops and began demolishing 16 shops, affecting the livelihood of more than 60 families.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

watchingfromafar said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What else would you call someone who would celebrate the thought of Jews being eliminated ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t celebrate the death of anyone, period, no exceptions. And I have nothing against Jews; no, none, nada; zip.
> 
> There is one very big difference between being Jewish and being an IDF soldier who gets pleasure in shooting Palestinian children in the head.
> 
> Only one country on this planet tells its soldiers to assassinate children; care to guess which one that is-?
> 
> *UN officials: Girl hit by IDF gunfire in UN school in Gaza*
> By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent and AP
> Tue., October 12, 2004 Tishrei 27, 5765
> * An 11-year-old Palestinian girl was shot in the stomach* and critically wounded *by Israel Defense Forces gunfire*. IDF troops fired two shots, one of the shots hit a fifth-grade student at the school. Last month, a *10-year-old girl was killed by IDF gunfire while sitting at her desk at the same school.
> Girl, 11, shot in Gaza school*
> 
> -
Click to expand...




Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia




2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers - Wikipedia



Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping



Palestinian charged with rape and murder of Israeli teen Ori Ansbacher



Hamas official urges killing all Zionist Jews, praises ‘peaceful’ Gaza protests

ETC. ETC. ETC,

Thread where Israel tells its soldiers to assassinate children


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Harazeen, Gaza*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Harazeen, Gaza*

Me and my amazing team ❤ covering the Great march of return..
Dear friends, you can watch my daily reports from Gaza on teleSUR and CGTN — with Hatem Selmy and Ahmed Hossine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Inside Story - Gaza offensive: What’s different this time?*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

November 24, 2018 marks the 20th anniversary of the opening of Gaza International Airport, Palestinians’ first airport.
The facility ceased operation in 2001 after the Israeli forces flattened the buildings.


----------



## P F Tinmore

The latest 48-hour Israeli aggression on Gaza has led to the destruction of some 1252 housing units and displaced thousands of families, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Public Works and Housing.


----------



## Mindful

*Statue of the Unknown Terrorist*
By
David Lange
 - 
January 15, 2020
330
The Statue or Tomb of the Unknown Soldier are war memorials found in many nations around the world, for the common memories of all soldiers killed in any war.

Now the palestinians have decided to get in on the act, with Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah posting the following on Facebook:









This looks more like the Statue of the Unknown Scissorhands. But in reality, it is the Statue of the Unknown Terrorist.

Still waiting for the palestinians to unveil a statue to a peacemaker. I won’t be holding my breath.

Fatah Unveil Statue of the Unknown Terrorist


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers vandalized and destroyed the property of a Palestinian landowner outside of Al Ma’zara, a settler returned on his horse to terrorize the international journalists and the villagers with a gun.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers vandalized and destroyed the property of a Palestinian landowner outside of Al Ma’zara, a settler returned on his horse to terrorize the international journalists and the villagers with a gun.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian Pharmacist Mohammed Al-Shanti checking the destruction in his pharmacy, witch was damaged by an Israeli air strike earlier this week, in the #Gaza Strip.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Zionist Settlers burn a vehicle and scratch racist slogans on walls belong to Palestinians in the Urif village, south of Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian Pharmacist Mohammed Al-Shanti checking the destruction in his pharmacy, witch was damaged by an Israeli air strike earlier this week, in the #Gaza Strip.



There is a very simple way to make these air strikes by Israel stop.  Don't shoot rockets at Israel!  It's called Cause and Effect, and it's as simple as 2+2=4.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Right of Return Conference Day 2: Palestinian Politics and Models for Return*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian Pharmacist Mohammed Al-Shanti checking the destruction in his pharmacy, witch was damaged by an Israeli air strike earlier this week, in the #Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a very simple way to make these air strikes by Israel stop.  Don't shoot rockets at Israel!  It's called Cause and Effect, and it's as simple as 2+2=4.
Click to expand...

This guy is a Pharmacist. Did he shoot a bottle of pills at Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Pictures from Gaza showing the devastation caused by the Israeli aggression on the enclave.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mainstream media coverage of Gaza "rockets".

By Carlos Latuff


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli troops have crossed into Gaza over 70 times this year alone, according to the UN. And those are only the incursions we know about.





Hmmm, I thought Israel left.


----------



## P F Tinmore

What you see in the first picture is a kindergarten in Gaza.
In the second picture it's also the same kindergarten, but after been bombed by the Israeli warplanes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Birmingham activists took to the streets to protest HSBC's investments in Israel's occupation


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Pictures from Gaza showing the devastation caused by the Israeli aggression on the enclave.






IDF strikes Hamas sites in response to rocket barrage

   Israeli Agression?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Birmingham activists took to the streets to protest HSBC's investments in Israel's occupation







Revolutionary Communist Group (UK) - Wikipedia

Revolutionary Communist Group??????


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Zionist Settlers burn a vehicle and scratch racist slogans on walls belong to Palestinians in the Urif village, south of Nablus.




  Thread???  Of course not.   Keep posting!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mainstream media coverage of Gaza "rockets".
> 
> By Carlos Latuff




   Once more; Another stupid post 

IDF strikes Hamas in Gaza in response to rocket fire, as sustained calm tested


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli troops have crossed into Gaza over 70 times this year alone, according to the UN. And those are only the incursions we know about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I thought Israel left.







Since Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than *15,000 *rockets and mortars into Israel, putting nearly one million Israeli citizens under direct threat everyday.

   You're right...…  They DID leave


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Pictures from Gaza showing the devastation caused by the Israeli aggression on the enclave.



You have got to be the biggest propagandist I have ever seen in my life Tinmore. I mean, really.

Israeli aggression? Israel attacked Gaza in response to Hamas rockets. 

I've never quite encountered someone as ridiculous as you Tinmore. You truly are ...well..I have no words..


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures from Gaza showing the devastation caused by the Israeli aggression on the enclave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have got to be the biggest propagandist I have ever seen in my life Tinmore. I mean, really.
> 
> Israeli aggression? Israel attacked Gaza in response to Hamas rockets.
> 
> I've never quite encountered someone as ridiculous as you Tinmore. You truly are ...well..I have no words..
Click to expand...

The


toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures from Gaza showing the devastation caused by the Israeli aggression on the enclave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have got to be the biggest propagandist I have ever seen in my life Tinmore. I mean, really.
> 
> Israeli aggression? Israel attacked Gaza in response to Hamas rockets.
> 
> I've never quite encountered someone as ridiculous as you Tinmore. You truly are ...well..I have no words..
Click to expand...


I do.,,, It’s desperation!


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Tlaib Speaks in Favor of H.J.Res. 76 to Protect Students*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rep. Tlaib Speaks in Favor of H.J.Res. 76 to Protect Students*
> 
> **


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli targets ..!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces arrest Omar Abu Ayyash in front of his house in Beit Ummar, north of Hebron, Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli court extends detention of Palestinian mother Suzan abu-Ghnnam from Jerusalem!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces arrest Omar Abu Ayyash in front of his house in Beit Ummar, north of Hebron, Palestine.



No link . What else is new? Keep posting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli forces arrest Omar Abu Ayyash in front of his house in Beit Ummar, north of Hebron, Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No link . What else is new? Keep posting.
Click to expand...

Days of Palestine

There, happy?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*EU diplomats go on a fact-finding mission to Issawiya neighborhood in Jerusalem*

*



*
EU diplomats inspecting a demolished home in Issawiya neighborhood of East Jerusalem. (Photo courtesy of the EU)

*Days Of Palestine - Jerusalem*

European Union (EU) Heads of Mission in Jerusalem and Ramallah on Monday went on a fact-finding mission to Issawiya, a neighborhood in Israeli-occupied East Jerusalem, to hear from residents and representatives of civil society organizations about unprecedented and continuous incursions and clashes between residents and Israeli police in the neighborhood since May 2019.

An EU press release said the EU Heads of Mission met residents, community representatives and representatives of civil society organizations active in the community who talked about an unprecedented increase in the presence of Israeli security forces since May 2019 in the neighborhood with daily incursions – many of them taking place in the vicinity of schools.

EU diplomats go on a fact-finding mission to Issawiya neighborhood in Jerusalem


----------



## P F Tinmore

Cracks can be seen in many houses in the old city of Jerusalem as a result of ongoing Israeli excavations beneath the area.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why Hamas wants Palestinian elections to be held*

*



*

In September last year, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas declared at the UN that he is calling for an election to be held in Palestine. The aim is to elect 132 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council which was, according to many experts, dissolved unconstitutionally by Abbas on 22 December 2018. Although the rule of the court appointed by Abbas is that the PLC election should be held within six months of the previous Council’s dissolution, it took him nine months to express his intention. According to the law, the poll should be held 90 days from the date of the presidential declaration.

Moreover, an opinion poll conducted by the PSR on 17 December shows that Abbas has lost the support of the majority of the people. This comes as no surprise, due to the PA’s broken promises which prevent it from achieving independence; the high level of corruption; security coordination with the Israeli occupation; the failure to face Israel’s annexation of Jerusalem and the annexation of what is left of the West Bank, which is supposed to be the promised Palestinian state; and the feeling among Palestinians generally that Abbas represents an incompetent and aging leadership for an overwhelmingly young nation.

Why Hamas wants Palestinian elections to be held


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Nedaa Al-Abadlah*
Gaza






Nedaa, 25, was born in Khan Younis, is married and has a daughter named Eileen who was born in 2015. She works as a blogger and freelance translator, after graduating wth an English literature degree from Al-Azhar University. Nedaa also has worked as an English teacher, human rights trainer, news editor, public relations officer and project coordinator.

Nedaa believes in what Ghassan Kanafani once said: "You have something in this world, so stand up." Therefore, she seeks to improve herself. She wants to publish, and her first book will be a novel based on a short story she submitted to the Sea of Words 2016 competition. Nedaa’s second book is already planned: a collection of essays she wrote during the last three years.

Nedaa Al-Abadlah


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.



   This is what Tinmore DIDN'T tell you   

Israel intercepts rockets launched from Gaza Strip


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Tinmore DIDN'T tell you
> 
> Israel intercepts rockets launched from Gaza Strip
Click to expand...

She launched a rocket?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces arrest Omar Abu Ayyash in front of his house in Beit Ummar, north of Hebron, Palestine.




Yes this child was detained.  Likely for throwing stones.  

The photo here is one of him when he was younger.  NOT the age he was when he was arrested.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.




To be clear, it was a rubber bullet.  She knew the risks of approaching the fence.  I applaud Israel for their restraint in the use of non-lethal riot control methods.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Tinmore DIDN'T tell you
> 
> Israel intercepts rockets launched from Gaza Strip
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She launched a rocket?
Click to expand...


Another stupid post. It was PALESTINIAN AGGRESSION that initiated the response
  I didn’t even know it was a rubber bullet until
I read one of the above posts. You are incapable of telling the truth


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mai Abu Rwaida, a Palestinian young women in her twenties, lost her right eye yesterday by an Israeli bullet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what Tinmore DIDN'T tell you
> 
> Israel intercepts rockets launched from Gaza Strip
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She launched a rocket?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid post. It was PALESTINIAN AGGRESSION that initiated the response
> I didn’t even know it was a rubber bullet until
> I read one of the above posts. You are incapable of telling the truth
Click to expand...


Well, I surmised right away that she probably put herself in harm's way by trying to break down the fence, so that she could rush into Israel and kill Jews. I didn't think that the Israelis went into her home for no reason at all, and proceed to shoot her in the eyes.  But that's the implication the picture is trying to convey.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Almost all of the youths I know long to leave Gaza. But Palestinian-American *Laila Al-Haddad* returned to Gaza after a three-year absence because she longed to strengthen the connection between her and her homeland. Seeing her joy at returning made me consider living in Gaza a privilege.

I met the author of Gaza Mom and co-author of Gaza Kitchen when she returned to Gaza to consult for the UN refugee agency for Palestinians and assist with the Breakfast Club, a new project initiated by American NGO Rebuilding Alliance. The goal of the Breakfast Club is to provide elementary-school students in a poor community in Rafah with healthy morning meals.  But Laila’s other goal is to keep her Palestinian ID current so her own children retain that identity as well.

Although her mother was born in Gaza, Laila was born in Kuwait and raised primarily in Saudi Arabia. However, her mother was diligent in bringing Laila and her siblings back to the strip during the summers to keep them connected with their homeland. Laila attended university, them married, in the United States. But her mother’s wish was never forgotten, and Laila moved back to Gaza to work as a journalist when their son was young. It was during that period when Laila began the blog that would become the source for her first book, Gaza Mom.





Laila visits with members of the Women's Program Center in Rafah

- See more at: When is someone 'Palestinian enough'?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Malak Hijazi.*






"I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Malak Hijazi.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,



Nobody stopped them from having their “ rights” since Aug 2005 except themselves
  Keep posting.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Protest “ Peacefully and Non Violently?”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

OTE="ILOVEISRAEL, post: 23881603, member: 35639"]





P F Tinmore said:


>



Protest “ Peacefully and Non Violently?” [/QUOTE]
 They reject Anti Semitism? Is that why their Formal position is that Jews will not be permitted at the Western Wall?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malak Hijazi.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody stopped them from having their “ rights” since Aug 2005 except themselves
> Keep posting.
Click to expand...

Your knowledge of this subject is inadequate, It seems that your only base of knowledge is Israeli propaganda. Please watch the following video and note your disagreements. Then let's discuss.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rep. Rashida Tlaib asks EPA to investigate Gary Sayers' Commonwealth property*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malak Hijazi.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody stopped them from having their “ rights” since Aug 2005 except themselves
> Keep posting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your knowledge of this subject is inadequate, It seems that your only base of knowledge is Israeli propaganda. Please watch the following video and note your disagreements. Then let's discuss.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...






Abbas Denies Jewish Connection To Israel In Speech To Palestinian Leadership




Timeline of the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia



PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall

 This also includes Temple Mount.  Why should ONLY the Arab World have rights to it?


Whitewashing Palestine to Eliminate Israel: The Case of the One-State Advocates on JSTOR



https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/ent/?ent-type=jewish-holy-sites


Thanks in advance


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malak Hijazi.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody stopped them from having their “ rights” since Aug 2005 except themselves
> Keep posting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your knowledge of this subject is inadequate, It seems that your only base of knowledge is Israeli propaganda. Please watch the following video and note your disagreements. Then let's discuss.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Denies Jewish Connection To Israel In Speech To Palestinian Leadership
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall
> 
> This also includes Temple Mount.  Why should ONLY the Arab World have rights to it?
> 
> 
> Whitewashing Palestine to Eliminate Israel: The Case of the One-State Advocates on JSTOR
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Holy Sites Archives - iTravelJerusalem
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


>



What an exercise in futility!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malak Hijazi.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I have always loved autumn, but not anymore. I don't love you, bloody November. And I don't need a crystal ball to know this will keep happening again and again. There is so much pain, always here, whirring continuously beneath the membrane of our life. It's not true that we got used to it. I haven't. Nothing has changed. But living in a place where dreams will never be achievable doesn't mean I don't dream. I'm deprived of my fundamental rights, like all Gazans, and everything seems unattainable, but I still have the desire to live in a better Gaza." - From our Gaza writer,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody stopped them from having their “ rights” since Aug 2005 except themselves
> Keep posting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your knowledge of this subject is inadequate, It seems that your only base of knowledge is Israeli propaganda. Please watch the following video and note your disagreements. Then let's discuss.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abbas Denies Jewish Connection To Israel In Speech To Palestinian Leadership
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timeline of the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> PA officials: Jews have ‘no right to pray’ at Western Wall
> 
> This also includes Temple Mount.  Why should ONLY the Arab World have rights to it?
> 
> 
> Whitewashing Palestine to Eliminate Israel: The Case of the One-State Advocates on JSTOR
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Holy Sites Archives - iTravelJerusalem
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


You’re the one who wanted to “ discuss “ it.   The above are real issues and concerns.   
    Is deflection and avoidance all you got? Of course it is 
     Thanks in advance


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>



“ Live in peace with your neighbors”

  Part of the Resolution 

   OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
Click to expand...

How many returned refugees did not live in pease?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
Click to expand...


 Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?   

   None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
Click to expand...


You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.  

    For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
Click to expand...

You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
Click to expand...


My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?  

   Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
Click to expand...

Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians have already destroyed Joseph's Tomb many times, tried to destroy Rachel's Tomb, and vandalized the Jewish side of Abraham's Tomb.  How is he lying?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
Click to expand...


I’m not lying . With “ Right of Return “ it’s understood that in time the Palestinian population may be in the majority so my question is valid. You’re the one who’s lying

 Even if that wasn’t the case;  Please tell us why the PLO took that position and why the Israeli Gov’t should ever go back to the Pre 67 Arab Mentality?

 The speaker in the You Tube” Video also advocates  the “ One State Solution “. Obviously in that case the Jewish people will certainly be forbidden to visit their Holy Sites ( Pre 67)
  Any comment?  Of course not !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have already destroyed Joseph's Tomb many times, tried to destroy Rachel's Tomb, and vandalized the Jewish side of Abraham's Tomb.  How is he lying?
Click to expand...




ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have already destroyed Joseph's Tomb many times, tried to destroy Rachel's Tomb, and vandalized the Jewish side of Abraham's Tomb.  How is he lying?
Click to expand...


You will NOT get an answer


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Arab riots break out on Temple Mount

  Since we are talking about " peace" with " Right of Return" how " peaceful" is this?

Muslims chant about killing Jews outside Jerusalem’s Temple Mount



Hundreds of Palestinians riot as Jews allowed on Temple Mount for Jerusalem Day



Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, which proposed the establishment of two states in the British Mandate of Palestine – a Jewish state and an Arab state – Jerusalem was to be an international city, neither exclusively Arab nor Jewish for a period of ten years, at which point a referendum would be held by Jerusalem residents to determine which country to join.

  Jordan didn't respect " International Law" giving the Jewish people access to their Holy Sites?  That  will never happen again 
  Not going to get a response from Tinmore   .


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> “ Live in peace with your neighbors”
> 
> Part of the Resolution
> 
> OMG !!!! I’m deflecting again!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> How many returned refugees did not live in pease?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell us please how many “ returned refugees “ there were that deprived the Israelis of their Religious rights or denied any Jewish Historical claims to the land like Abbas did?
> 
> None; because it hasn’t happened yet and never will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
Click to expand...


Actually, ILOVEISRAEL asked a simple question, and YOU deflected. As you normally do ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’m not lying . With “ Right of Return “ it’s understood that in time the Palestinian population may be in the majority so my question is valid. You’re the one who’s lying
> 
> Even if that wasn’t the case;  Please tell us why the PLO took that position and why the Israeli Gov’t should ever go back to the Pre 67 Arab Mentality?
> 
> The speaker in the You Tube” Video also advocates  the “ One State Solution “. Obviously in that case the Jewish people will certainly be forbidden to visit their Holy Sites ( Pre 67)
> Any comment?  Of course not !
Click to expand...

Speculation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces raid Palestinian homes at night in Tulkarem and wreak the havoc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces raid Palestinian homes at night in Tulkarem and wreak the havoc.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Abulhawa: For 36 hours I was detained on a dirty bed in my homeland, then deported


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian childhood under Israeli occupation


----------



## P F Tinmore

This mosaic honoring Palestinian nurse #RazanAlNajjar was recently unveiled at the Palestine Museum in Connecticut. Razan was shot by an Israeli sniper while tending to wounded


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> 
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one who’s Blowing smoke! You can’t even answer your own question.
> 
> For starters; does “ living in Peace” include banning the Israelis from their Religious Sites?  There will be no response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’m not lying . With “ Right of Return “ it’s understood that in time the Palestinian population may be in the majority so my question is valid. You’re the one who’s lying
> 
> Even if that wasn’t the case;  Please tell us why the PLO took that position and why the Israeli Gov’t should ever go back to the Pre 67 Arab Mentality?
> 
> The speaker in the You Tube” Video also advocates  the “ One State Solution “. Obviously in that case the Jewish people will certainly be forbidden to visit their Holy Sites ( Pre 67)
> Any comment?  Of course not !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speculation.
Click to expand...


“ Speculation?” The PLO already made a official statement Re; the Western Wall .
   Please tell us why the Palestinians rioted because Jews entered the Temple Mount
     You told me I was lying? You are the liar and incapable of telling the truth.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You made a post based on nothing now you are deflecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’m not lying . With “ Right of Return “ it’s understood that in time the Palestinian population may be in the majority so my question is valid. You’re the one who’s lying
> 
> Even if that wasn’t the case;  Please tell us why the PLO took that position and why the Israeli Gov’t should ever go back to the Pre 67 Arab Mentality?
> 
> The speaker in the You Tube” Video also advocates  the “ One State Solution “. Obviously in that case the Jewish people will certainly be forbidden to visit their Holy Sites ( Pre 67)
> Any comment?  Of course not !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Speculation?” The PLO already made a official statement Re; the Western Wall .
> Please tell us why the Palestinians rioted because Jews entered the Temple Mount
> You told me I was lying? You are the liar and incapable of telling the truth.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with returning refugees?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> My post was in answer to yours;  “ peaceful protests”?
> 
> Denying Jews to their Religious sacred sites is “ peaceful?”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. We were talking about refugees. Now you are lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I’m not lying . With “ Right of Return “ it’s understood that in time the Palestinian population may be in the majority so my question is valid. You’re the one who’s lying
> 
> Even if that wasn’t the case;  Please tell us why the PLO took that position and why the Israeli Gov’t should ever go back to the Pre 67 Arab Mentality?
> 
> The speaker in the You Tube” Video also advocates  the “ One State Solution “. Obviously in that case the Jewish people will certainly be forbidden to visit their Holy Sites ( Pre 67)
> Any comment?  Of course not !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> “ Speculation?” The PLO already made a official statement Re; the Western Wall .
> Please tell us why the Palestinians rioted because Jews entered the Temple Mount
> You told me I was lying? You are the liar and incapable of telling the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does that have to do with returning refugees?
Click to expand...


You told me my comments about the Jewish people being denied their Religious rights was “ speculation “ I have just proven you are a liar.More then one topic can be addressed  or spoken about.
    Why do you refuse to have any discussion about it? Because you can’t


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli occupation forces raid Palestinian homes at night in Tulkarem and wreak the havoc.


   Oh..,, There is none


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation soldiers assaulted Palestinian citizens violently before demolishing their house in Yatta city, southern occupied WestBank


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian novelist of the international bestseller “Mornings in Jenin”, Susan Abulhawa, has been detained by Israel en route to the Kalimat Palestinian Literature Festival (sponsored by, among others, the British Council and the Kenyon Institute).


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian novelist of the international bestseller “Mornings in Jenin”, Susan Abulhawa, has been detained by Israel en route to the Kalimat Palestinian Literature Festival (sponsored by, among others, the British Council and the Kenyon Institute).


Oh no !!! The horror !!! The horror !!!!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Ridiculous

They all claim they flew in and out, and were stripped and searched by Airport security.
All of them are political activists, this and the above are the only things consistent in the story.

They claim people with Arabic surnames don't get permits, and 4 out of 5 of them are Arabs.
The Jewish woman claims she wrote on every page "I will never go back to Israel", returned next year.

Israeli border control is tough, there's no question, yet there're more tourists returning than ever - record high.

These Pallywood anecdotes are just too boldly 'embellished' to be taken seriously.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib: The Senate’s Anti-BDS Bill Is an Unconstitutional Attack on Free Speech*

**


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculous
> 
> They all claim they flew in and out, and were stripped and searched by Airport security.
> All of them are political activists, this and the above are the only things consistent in the story.
> 
> They claim people with Arabic surnames don't get permits, and 4 out of 5 of them are Arabs.
> The Jewish woman claims she wrote on every page "I will never go back to Israel", returned next year.
> 
> Israeli border control is tough, there's no question, yet there're more tourists returning than ever - record high.
> 
> These Pallywood anecdotes are just too boldly 'embellished' to be taken seriously.
Click to expand...


We ALL get stripped and searched by airport security, thanks to those moronic Muslim terrorists.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Days of Palestine
Dozens of Palestinian journalists were exposed to Israeli aggression all over the Palestinian Territories.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.



I wish the Gazans would stop throwing rockets at Israel, for the sake of both sides.  Do you support them throwing rockets at Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dozens of Palestinian journalists were exposed to Israeli aggression all over the Palestinian Territories. 






Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish the Gazans would stop throwing rockets at Israel, for the sake of both sides.  Do you support them throwing rockets at Israel?
Click to expand...

The siege is an act of war. Are the Palestinians not allowed to respond?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*EPIC Palestinian STREET FOOD FESTIVAL!*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*INSIDE LOOK AT PALESTINIAN TOWN OF RAMALLAH!*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian vendor sells bread in a street market in the West Bank city of Nablus. Photo by Nedal Eshtayah.






The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

We will stay here as long as there are thyme and olives.






The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.






2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia

   Lets talk about what initiated the conflict 

The *2014 Israelâ€“Gaza conflict* also known as *Operation Protective Edge* (Hebrew: ×žÖ´×‘Ö°×¦Ö¸×¢ ×¦×•Ö¼×§ ×Öµ×™×ªÖ¸×Ÿ, _Miv'tza Tzuk Eitan_, lit. "Operation Strong Cliff")[note 3] and sometimes referred to as the *2014 Gaza war*,[26][27][28] was a military operation launched by Israel on 8 July 2014 in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.[note 4] Following the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas members, the IDF conducted _Operation Brother's Keeper_ to arrest militant leaders, Hamas fired rockets into Israel and a seven-week conflict broke out. The Israeli airstrikes and ground bombardment, the Palestinian rocket attacks and the ground fighting resulted in the death of thousands of people, the vast majority of them Gazans.[14][29]

The stated aim of the Israeli operation was to stop rocket fire from Gaza into Israel, which increased after an Israeli crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank was launched following the 12 June kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by two Hamas members.[30][31][32] Conversely, Hamas's goal was to bring international pressure to bear to lift Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, end Israel's offensive, obtain a third party to monitor and guarantee compliance with a ceasefire,[33] release Palestinian prisoners and overcome its political isolation.[34] According to the BBC, in response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched air raids on Gaza.[35]


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


ABBAS; ISRAEL HAS NO CONNECTION TO JEWISH HISTORY



You tube What will.happen to the Israelis when you take back Palestine - Google Search

  Love and Peace???


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Days of Palestine
> Dozens of Palestinian journalists were exposed to Israeli aggression all over the Palestinian Territories.



YAWN.....  No thread.....  How typical


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia
> 
> Lets talk about what initiated the conflict
> 
> The *2014 Israelâ€“Gaza conflict* also known as *Operation Protective Edge* (Hebrew: ×žÖ´×‘Ö°×¦Ö¸×¢ ×¦×•Ö¼×§ ×Öµ×™×ªÖ¸×Ÿ, _Miv'tza Tzuk Eitan_, lit. "Operation Strong Cliff")[note 3] and sometimes referred to as the *2014 Gaza war*,[26][27][28] was a military operation launched by Israel on 8 July 2014 in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.[note 4] Following the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas members, the IDF conducted _Operation Brother's Keeper_ to arrest militant leaders, Hamas fired rockets into Israel and a seven-week conflict broke out. The Israeli airstrikes and ground bombardment, the Palestinian rocket attacks and the ground fighting resulted in the death of thousands of people, the vast majority of them Gazans.[14][29]
> 
> The stated aim of the Israeli operation was to stop rocket fire from Gaza into Israel, which increased after an Israeli crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank was launched following the 12 June kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by two Hamas members.[30][31][32] Conversely, Hamas's goal was to bring international pressure to bear to lift Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, end Israel's offensive, obtain a third party to monitor and guarantee compliance with a ceasefire,[33] release Palestinian prisoners and overcome its political isolation.[34] According to the BBC, in response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched air raids on Gaza.[35]
Click to expand...

You are starting history in the middle. Israel is defending its settler colonial project.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The 2011 Palestine Festival of Literature (PalFest)*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

So why did the assholes want to close down a literature festival?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A mountain gazelle runs with bouncing leaps in Palestinian land. Photo by Mohammed Mahamid.0






The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian children accompany their father during Eid al-Adha prayer in Gaza.






The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian child Mohammed al-Rifi, a 14-year-old was severely wounded by an Israeli airstrike that killed his father, brother, and four cousins during the 2014 assault on Gaza, has just died after a four-year-long treatment journey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia
> 
> Lets talk about what initiated the conflict
> 
> The *2014 Israelâ€“Gaza conflict* also known as *Operation Protective Edge* (Hebrew: ×žÖ´×‘Ö°×¦Ö¸×¢ ×¦×•Ö¼×§ ×Öµ×™×ªÖ¸×Ÿ, _Miv'tza Tzuk Eitan_, lit. "Operation Strong Cliff")[note 3] and sometimes referred to as the *2014 Gaza war*,[26][27][28] was a military operation launched by Israel on 8 July 2014 in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.[note 4] Following the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by Hamas members, the IDF conducted _Operation Brother's Keeper_ to arrest militant leaders, Hamas fired rockets into Israel and a seven-week conflict broke out. The Israeli airstrikes and ground bombardment, the Palestinian rocket attacks and the ground fighting resulted in the death of thousands of people, the vast majority of them Gazans.[14][29]
> 
> The stated aim of the Israeli operation was to stop rocket fire from Gaza into Israel, which increased after an Israeli crackdown on Hamas in the West Bank was launched following the 12 June kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers by two Hamas members.[30][31][32] Conversely, Hamas's goal was to bring international pressure to bear to lift Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, end Israel's offensive, obtain a third party to monitor and guarantee compliance with a ceasefire,[33] release Palestinian prisoners and overcome its political isolation.[34] According to the BBC, in response to rocket fire from the Gaza Strip, Israel launched air raids on Gaza.[35]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are starting history in the middle. Israel is defending its settler colonial project.
Click to expand...


You have nothing to say and are condoning the murder of those three Israeli boys which initiated it yet we are to feel “ sorry” for Palestinians that were hurt when Israel retaliated?
   Don’t think so !  I see you have nothing to say about Abbas claim that the Jewish people have no historical connection to the land and the long term goal of the Palestinians if there is a “ One State Solution” ( Which will never happen) 
  How typical


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Any “ Violence” is due to the treatment of the population? Is that what happened before 67? Keep posting!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian children accompany their father during Eid al-Adha prayer in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Information Center








Bar Mitzvah Production | Western Wall Heritage Foundation

  Children's bar mitzvah ceremony at the WESTERN WALL

      Maybe you should go and tell them they're not really Jewish  .  Take Hamas with you   ( One of your stupid You Tube  Posts}


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian children accompany their father during Eid al-Adha prayer in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bar Mitzvah Production | Western Wall Heritage Foundation
> 
> Children's bar mitzvah ceremony at the WESTERN WALL
> 
> Maybe you should go and tell them they're not really Jewish  .  Take Hamas with you   ( One of your stupid You Tube  Posts}
Click to expand...




WATCH: Palestinians Occupy Temple Mount, Demand ‘Martyrs Liberate Jerusalem!’

  Please tell us what this is all about.  There will be no response; there never is


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces assault a Palestinian youth in an attempt to arrest him following Eid prayer at al-Aqsa Mosque.






The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian worshipers run as Israeli forces heavily fire live ammunition and tear gas bombs at them following Eid prayer inside al-Aqsa Mosque.







The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli forces assault a Palestinian youth in an attempt to arrest him following Eid prayer at al-Aqsa Mosque.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinian Information Center



YAWN......   No thread.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Now, THIS is funny!   Tinmore has always claimed that criticism of Israel has been translated into Anti Semitism as an excuse
  When I posted specific examples of Anti Semitism he stated it was “ Not his Concern”
  When other matters of Jewish Religion rights have been mentioned like the Western Wall there is no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, THIS is funny!   Tinmore has always claimed that criticism of Israel has been translated into Anti Semitism as an excuse
> When I posted specific examples of Anti Semitism he stated it was “ Not his Concern”
> When other matters of Jewish Religion rights have been mentioned like the Western Wall there is no response
Click to expand...

Anti Semitism may be a problem but I don't travel in that circle so it is not an issue for me.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, THIS is funny!   Tinmore has always claimed that criticism of Israel has been translated into Anti Semitism as an excuse
> When I posted specific examples of Anti Semitism he stated it was “ Not his Concern”
> When other matters of Jewish Religion rights have been mentioned like the Western Wall there is no response
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anti Semitism may be a problem but I don't travel in that circle so it is not an issue for me.
Click to expand...


Thank you for admitting that your post is Hypocritical
  If that isn’t a problem for you which now includes Violence of Jews that have no Connection to the ME why should “ Palestinian Oppression “  , deaths, and the wounded ( due to their own actions) be a problem for anyone who believes Israel has the Right to exist?
   It isn’t and never will be


----------



## Mindful

*Ali Abunimah Compares Hamas Terrorists to Warsaw Ghetto Inmates*
By
David Lange
 -
January 21, 2020
206
In case you didn’t already figure out that Electronic Intifada founder Ali “Abumination” Abunimah was an antisemite, he keeps sending out reminders.





As a reminder, “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis” falls under the IHRA working definition of antisemitism.

But what Abunimah has done here goes beyond; he has actually compared _Hamas terrorists_ to Jewish Holocaust victims.

I am sure he will argue he was not making such a comparison, and merely calling them “ghetto” inmates because they are enclosed in Gaza. Alas, his wording is clearly no mistake and he was undoubtedly drawing a parallel to the most infamous ghetto in history, especially when commenting on a Holocaust gathering with the very same tweet.

Not that we should be surprised. Abunimah is a known terrorist supporter who hearts Hamas.

Here’s hoping he and them end up together in the dustbin of history.

Ali Abunimah Compares Hamas Terrorists to Warsaw Ghetto Inmates


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahdaf Soueif Wins 2019 European Culture Award: Acceptance Speech in Full*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Professor Virginia Tilley speech at the First Global Conference on Israeli Apartheid*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Professor Virginia Tilley speech at the First Global Conference on Israeli Apartheid*
> 
> **








They don't like the Wall?  Too bad. When does anyone from who is not a Citizen have the right to freely enter another Country?   The answer is nobody



Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: ‘Jewish Temple Never Existed!’ Palestinian ‘Expert’ Shamelessly Lies

  Does anybody in their right mind believe the Palestinians can " live in peace with their neighbors?"     

    They are actually doing Israel a big favor


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Terrorists Hurl Explosives at IDF Troops Near the Gaza Security Fence -

Some more " peaceful" demonstrations.  These Savages object to the Wall?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Shabaka The Palestinian Policy Network


----------



## P F Tinmore

*BBC World News Annemarie Jacir interview*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Prickly pear picking in the West Bank city of Ramallah.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




Syrian Front



The Six Day War «  Jewish History

    This is how.  Any more questions?   " Palestine" could have existed before 1967


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



  YAWN..... NO LINK  HOW TYPICAL


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian mothers' pain is indescribable.






Janna Jihad


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Islamic and Jewish Leaders Jointly Visit Auschwitz, Making ‘History’


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian mothers' pain is indescribable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janna Jihad




  YEA, RIGHT!


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Status Coup Interviews Reps Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, and Pramila Jayapal From Iran War Protests*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Status Coup Interviews Reps Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, and Pramila Jayapal From Iran War Protests*
> 
> **


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah - The Battle for Justice in Palestine*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza




*


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah - The Battle for Justice in Palestine*
> 
> **




Timeline of the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia

  What he " forgets" to mention is what initiated the 2014 Gaza conflict.    Why should anyone who believes Israel has the right to exist care about Palestinian fatalities ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

The "riot" in Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Jews in E. Jerusalem


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> The "riot" in Gaza






Timeline of the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict - Wikipedia

   The Riot in Gaza


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The Gaza March of Return: What You Need to Know

" Peaceful Protests"


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Palestine TV team were released hours after they were detained in occupied Jerusalem earlier today






Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore

Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore

Janna Jihad


----------



## P F Tinmore

You would not believe the story behind this photo!

In Gaza, a bread-seller goes around from one mosque to another before El-Fajir prayer (at 5 AM), puts his bread, and comes back later to collect his money, and the rest of the bread after people take what they want, and pay for it.






We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Bee keeper in Gaza






We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

"The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat






We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> "The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine" - Yasser Arafat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We Are Not Numbers





The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre

    I was recently asked how I knew Israelis and Palestinians couldn't live " in peace with their neighbors" with " Right of Return"    This says it all

      The above will never happen and Jerusalem will always be in Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib | LaborVision Podcast*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Days of Palestine


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Days of Palestine



YAWN...,  No link. What else is new?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Annemarie Jacir chats about Official Competition "Wajib" BFI London Film Festival*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abbas refuses Trump call as Palestinian leaders rage over peace deal

   I wonder what his reaction would be IF Trump didn't declare all of Jerusalem part of Israel.  
    Would he refuse until he demanded the " preconditions" he has done in the past?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Un Resolution On Protection Of Religions Sites | The Siege Of Bethlehem | FRONTLINE | PBS


   Something else the Arab World has never done


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ISIS vows to 'fight the Jews,' attack Israel as US prepares to release Mideast plan

    If they were to try this let the Israelis kill as many as possible while the " International Community" condemns their actions


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ISIS vows to 'fight the Jews,' attack Israel as US prepares to release Mideast plan
> 
> If they were to try this let the Israelis kill as many as possible while the " International Community" condemns their actions


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian fields in Tubas, north of the West Bank.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza wallrunners


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank are finding careers in coding & technology. Anera+RBK*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ISIS vows to 'fight the Jews,' attack Israel as US prepares to release Mideast plan
> 
> If they were to try this let the Israelis kill as many as possible while the " International Community" condemns their actions
Click to expand...


*Al-Aqsa Mosque Address: We Will Soon Establish the Caliphate, Liberate Jerusalem and Conquer Rome*

What are these flags they are waving?


----------



## Mindful

*Tlaib Retweets a Lie from the Palestinian Atrocity Factory*






My latest in PJ Media:

That most honest and upright of Congresswomen, Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Jihad), gained still more notoriety when, according to the Times of Israel, she “retweeted then removed a tweet falsely blaming Israelis for the death of a Palestinian child.” Tlaib “retweeted a tweet by Hanan Ashrawi, a top Palestinian official, who was quote-tweeting an account, realSeifBitar, that accused Israeli settlers of kidnapping, assaulting and throwing into a well an eight-year-old child.” It was all in a day’s work for the Palestinian atrocity factory.

When it became clear that the child had drowned, rather than being killed by murderous Zionists, Ashrawi published a retraction. Although she took down her initial retweet, Tlaib didn’t retweet the retraction. Tlaib has nearly 900,000 followers on Twitter. Hundreds of thousands likely saw her initial tweet before she took it down. Mission accomplished.

Rashida Tlaib Retweets a Lie from the Palestinian Atrocity Factory


----------



## Mindful

^ This deception is standard practice for adherents of the Palestinian cause. Israelly Cool reported Wednesday that a supporter of the Palestinian jihad against Israel, Sarah Hassan, recently posted a photo on Twitter of a boy crouched beneath a cart, surrounded by snow, trying to keep warm. “Gaza…poverty…cold!” wrote Hassan, but IsraellyCool noted that “never got lower than 6 degrees Celcius [sic] in Gaza over that time period” – that is, 43 degrees Fahrenheit, so there couldn’t have been snow piled up everywhere. What’s more, the photo doesn’t really come from Gaza at all; it was taken in Afghanistan in 2006.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*What does "The Israel Lobby - US" documentary reveal about the lobby in America? - Ali Abunimah*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *What does "The Israel Lobby - US" documentary reveal about the lobby in America? - Ali Abunimah*
> 
> **



Nothing that you haven't told us about already.


Ad infinitum.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*PLO's Ashrawi: Peace solution must respect intl law*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *PLO's Ashrawi: Peace solution must respect intl law*
> 
> **



Whatever intl law _is.

Or isn't._
[/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*

**


----------



## Mindful

How many more times? 


Occupation of Palestinian territory.” 

What these economic and political warriors don’t seem to realize is that Israel is not occupying anything.  There was never an Arab state known as Palestine.  In fact, the Arabs have rejected multiple offers to establish such a state.

Before Jewish sovereignty was reestablished with the modern state of Israel in 1948, the (Turkish) Ottoman Empire ruled the Holy Land for approximately 400 years up until 1917.  Following the defeat of the Ottoman Turks in World War I, the British and French administered it in a period of joint military administration (1917-1920).  The San Remo Conference (1920) formally established the British Mandate of Palestine’s borders to encompass modern day Israel, Jordan, the Gaza Strip, and what is today often referred to as the West Bank.  

Britain Created “Palestine” for the Jews…



Read more: Israel and the Occupation that Isn't
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*
> 
> **



Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. Your “ smiley” face doesn’t change that fact.


----------



## Mindful

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. Your “ smiley” face doesn’t change that fact.
Click to expand...



When he's got nothing, he does smileys.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. Your “ smiley” face doesn’t change that fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When he's got nothing, he does smileys.
Click to expand...

How should one respond to unsubstantiated Israeli talking points?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. Your “ smiley” face doesn’t change that fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When he's got nothing, he does smileys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How should one respond to unsubstantiated Israeli talking points?
Click to expand...


That's _your _problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Michael Lynk: Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Olmert offered the Palestinians almost everything they wanted. Your “ smiley” face doesn’t change that fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When he's got nothing, he does smileys.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How should one respond to unsubstantiated Israeli talking points?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's _your _problem.
Click to expand...

Good comeback.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *PLO's Ashrawi: Peace solution must respect intl law*
> 
> **





  Has anyone else noticed how Tinmore spouts " International Law" yet at the same time posts this?  

The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Justice requires you to take a peace agreement.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza Beach







We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justice requires you to take a peace agreement.
Click to expand...

No peace agreement has ever been offered.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

As it is the season of harvest, #Palestinian farmers all over Palestine grow many kinds of fruit and vegetables. Here are some farmers harvesting cauliflower in Nuwaimah village, Jericho.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Do you know that #Gaza produces flowers?
People of Gaza grow various, beautiful flowers. In the past, Gaza used to export flowers to countries around the world as it was one of the most producing areas for flowers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

This is Latifa al-Najjar from Gaza,77 years old, who did not give up her work for 30 years. She makes traditional clay ovens by her own hands and sells them in the markets as a source of living.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






P F Tinmore said:


>



“ Palestinian Self Determination” and “ Right of Return’” 
   Notice there is nothing about the “ two state solution” or Palestinians and Israelis living “ peacefully with their neighbors?”
   The link I posted earlier regarding Arafat”s words came from me
   But some of what he said initially came from Tinmore.
   He must be seething at Trump’s position.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justice requires you to take a peace agreement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No peace agreement has ever been offered.
Click to expand...


Ask what “ Peace Agreement “ the Palestinians have offered and there will be no response


----------



## Mindful

“The Jews are a peculiar people: Things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.

Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people, and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it. Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchmen. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese--and no one says a word about refugees.

But in the case of Israel, the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace.

Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.” 
― Eric Hoffer


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> “The Jews are a peculiar people: Things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews.
> 
> Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people, and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it. Poland and Czechoslovakia did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks and Algeria a million Frenchmen. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese--and no one says a word about refugees.
> 
> But in the case of Israel, the displaced Arabs have become eternal refugees. Everyone insists that Israel must take back every single Arab. Arnold Toynbee calls the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations when victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious it must sue for peace.
> 
> Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world.”
> ― Eric Hoffer



I just love the fact that Tinmore is so frustrated. It must be killing him that the Jewish people have access to their Holy Sites ( Which they didn’t pre 67)


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Youths Welcoming Israeli Occupiers after they invaded Nabi Saleh Village.*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Youths Welcoming Israeli Occupiers after they invaded Nabi Saleh Village.*
> 
> **



YAWN...,,,  No thread.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Special Report - Inside Palestine: Life in a Palestinian village*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

This is Gaza from the sky! Over two million people live on this land, whose space is only 360 Square kilometers.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Let's teach our children music and peace,


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

On Friday
When my cousin got shot ...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Let's teach our children music and peace,




Except, Hamas teaches Palestinian children hatred. that's a known and documented fact.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Let's teach our children music and peace,






Muslims chant about killing Jews outside Jerusalem’s Temple Mount

  Yes, let's teach our Children Music and " peace"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>






Jerusalem as Israel's capital - The Commentator

   I wonder if any of those Jews are " Real Jews?"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Rashida Tlaib, Bernie Sanders


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib, Bernie Sanders



Probably washed her hands afterwards


----------



## P F Tinmore

*“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*
> 
> **



They boycotted Trump’s S


P F Tinmore said:


> *“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*
> 
> **



They boycotted Trump’s State of the Union and walked out because they don’t like his Pro Israel policies? Good !


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*

Long ago, it was settled that resistance and even armed struggle against
a colonial occupation force is not just recognised under international
law but specifically endorsed.

In accordance with international humanitarian law, wars of national
liberation have been expressly embraced, through the adoption of
Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 (pdf
<https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 1125/volume-1125-i-17512-english.pdf>), as a protected and essential right of occupied people everywhere.

Finding evolving vitality in humanitarian law, for decades the General
Assembly of the United Nations (UNGA) - once described as the collective conscience of the world - has noted the right of peoples to
self-determination, independence and human rights.

Indeed, as early as 1974, resolution 3314 of the UNGAprohibited
<United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX)> states from "any
military occupation, however temporary".

In relevant part, the resolution not only went on to affirm the right
"to self-determination, freedom and independence [...] of peoples
forcibly deprived of that right,[...] particularly peoples under
colonial and racist regimes or other forms of alien domination" but
noted the right of the occupied to "struggle ... and to seek and receive
support" in that effort.

The term "armed struggle" was implied without precise definition in that
resolution and many other early ones that upheld the right of indigenous
persons to evict an occupier.

This imprecision was to change on December 3, 1982. At that time UNGA resolution 37/43
<http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r043.htm>removed any doubt or debate over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist
occupying forces by any and all lawful means. The resolution reaffirmed
"the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial
integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign
domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including
armed struggle".

*[News] Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*
> 
> Long ago, it was settled that resistance and even armed struggle against
> a colonial occupation force is not just recognised under international
> law but specifically endorsed.
> 
> In accordance with international humanitarian law, wars of national
> liberation have been expressly embraced, through the adoption of
> Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 (pdf
> <https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 1125/volume-1125-i-17512-english.pdf>), as a protected and essential right of occupied people everywhere.
> 
> Finding evolving vitality in humanitarian law, for decades the General
> Assembly of the United Nations (UNGA) - once described as the collective conscience of the world - has noted the right of peoples to
> self-determination, independence and human rights.
> 
> Indeed, as early as 1974, resolution 3314 of the UNGAprohibited
> <United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX)> states from "any
> military occupation, however temporary".
> 
> In relevant part, the resolution not only went on to affirm the right
> "to self-determination, freedom and independence [...] of peoples
> forcibly deprived of that right,[...] particularly peoples under
> colonial and racist regimes or other forms of alien domination" but
> noted the right of the occupied to "struggle ... and to seek and receive
> support" in that effort.
> 
> The term "armed struggle" was implied without precise definition in that
> resolution and many other early ones that upheld the right of indigenous
> persons to evict an occupier.
> 
> This imprecision was to change on December 3, 1982. At that time UNGA resolution 37/43
> <http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r043.htm>removed any doubt or debate over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist
> occupying forces by any and all lawful means. The resolution reaffirmed
> "the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial
> integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign
> domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including
> armed struggle".
> 
> *[News] Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*



Depends on what you mean by armed resistance.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*
> 
> Long ago, it was settled that resistance and even armed struggle against
> a colonial occupation force is not just recognised under international
> law but specifically endorsed.
> 
> In accordance with international humanitarian law, wars of national
> liberation have been expressly embraced, through the adoption of
> Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 (pdf
> <https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 1125/volume-1125-i-17512-english.pdf>), as a protected and essential right of occupied people everywhere.
> 
> Finding evolving vitality in humanitarian law, for decades the General
> Assembly of the United Nations (UNGA) - once described as the collective conscience of the world - has noted the right of peoples to
> self-determination, independence and human rights.
> 
> Indeed, as early as 1974, resolution 3314 of the UNGAprohibited
> <United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX)> states from "any
> military occupation, however temporary".
> 
> In relevant part, the resolution not only went on to affirm the right
> "to self-determination, freedom and independence [...] of peoples
> forcibly deprived of that right,[...] particularly peoples under
> colonial and racist regimes or other forms of alien domination" but
> noted the right of the occupied to "struggle ... and to seek and receive
> support" in that effort.
> 
> The term "armed struggle" was implied without precise definition in that
> resolution and many other early ones that upheld the right of indigenous
> persons to evict an occupier.
> 
> This imprecision was to change on December 3, 1982. At that time UNGA resolution 37/43
> <http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r043.htm>removed any doubt or debate over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist
> occupying forces by any and all lawful means. The resolution reaffirmed
> "the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial
> integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign
> domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including
> armed struggle".
> 
> *[News] Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*



Yea, right
   That’s why the Rockets shot at Israel increased immediately in 2005
   The Israelis have a legal right to respond


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*
> 
> Long ago, it was settled that resistance and even armed struggle against
> a colonial occupation force is not just recognised under international
> law but specifically endorsed.
> 
> In accordance with international humanitarian law, wars of national
> liberation have been expressly embraced, through the adoption of
> Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 (pdf
> <https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume 1125/volume-1125-i-17512-english.pdf>), as a protected and essential right of occupied people everywhere.
> 
> Finding evolving vitality in humanitarian law, for decades the General
> Assembly of the United Nations (UNGA) - once described as the collective conscience of the world - has noted the right of peoples to
> self-determination, independence and human rights.
> 
> Indeed, as early as 1974, resolution 3314 of the UNGAprohibited
> <United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX)> states from "any
> military occupation, however temporary".
> 
> In relevant part, the resolution not only went on to affirm the right
> "to self-determination, freedom and independence [...] of peoples
> forcibly deprived of that right,[...] particularly peoples under
> colonial and racist regimes or other forms of alien domination" but
> noted the right of the occupied to "struggle ... and to seek and receive
> support" in that effort.
> 
> The term "armed struggle" was implied without precise definition in that
> resolution and many other early ones that upheld the right of indigenous
> persons to evict an occupier.
> 
> This imprecision was to change on December 3, 1982. At that time UNGA resolution 37/43
> <http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r043.htm>removed any doubt or debate over the lawful entitlement of occupied people to resist
> occupying forces by any and all lawful means. The resolution reaffirmed
> "the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial
> integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign
> domination and foreign occupation by all available means, including
> armed struggle".
> 
> *[News] Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, right
> That’s why the Rockets shot at Israel increased immediately in 2005
> The Israelis have a legal right to respond
Click to expand...


2005, wasn't that the year Israel left Gaza, and before the rockets forced Israel to enact a blockade?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*
> 
> **




 Thank you again for your extremely ignorant post. In Rashida Tlaib remarks she condemned Rush Limbaugh for getting the Metal of Freedom? Can you please tell us why Tom Hanks ( Pres Obama I believe) and others got it?
  It’s because this Honor is reserved for those NOT in the Military
 BTW, Tiger Woods also got it


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

You are very confused.

◈  *A/RES/3314* is NOT law.  It merely defines "Aggression" and associate terms things.
◈ * A/RES/37/43* is NOT law.  It is a UN pontification describing the mood of the Assembly.

The only LAW that you cited was Protocol I.  But it is a protocol attached to the Fourth Geneva Convention, which is the parent document.
→
AND what does the LAW say *exactly?*  Well,  →  it tells the Occupying Force _(that would be Israel in the scenario you have framed)_ as to what is punishable under international law.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*
> *[News] Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*


*(COMMENT)*

I refer to Article 68 • Penal legislation. V. Penalties - Death Penalty, Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV):  _(I recommend you read it before you go telling people they have the "right to armed struggle.)_



			
				[URL='https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Treaty.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=AE2D398352C5B028C12563CD002D6B5C']Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War • Geneva 12 August 1949.[/URL] said:
			
		

> Protected persons _(in your scenario that would be the Arab Palestinians)_ who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power _(that would be the Isrealis in your scenario)_, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 [* Link *]  of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.
> 
> The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [* Link* ]  and 65 [ *Link* ]   may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person _(in your scenario that would be the Arab Palestinians)_ is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power _(that would be the Isrealis in your scenario)_ or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began _(in your scenario that would be the Law of the Hashemite Kingdom)_.
> 
> The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.
> 
> In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.
> SOURCE:  *Art 68 GCIV* •



The concept you spout:  "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is very dangerous.  Nowhere in the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) does it even mention anything close to the "right" as you have it here.  In fact, it does not even use the terminology "Armed Struggle."  That is a bumper sticker term.  In fact, it says the exact opposite.




			
				CCPR said:
			
		

> _*Article 20 *_





			
				CCPR said:
			
		

> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.​







I'm sure you will NOT believe this, but you are encouraged to fact check it.
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian Fauxtography of the Day: Baby in the Box Edition*
By
David Lange
 -
February 11, 2020
1338
A palestinian “journalist” has tweeted this heartbreaking photo from Gaza:





Except it isn’t – from Gaza, that is. It is from Idomeni, Greece.









Surely if Gaza was as bad as these propagandists claim, it should be easy to find an authentic photo from there, instead of constantly trying to pass of photos from other parts of the world.

Palestinian Fauxtography of the Day: Baby in the Box Edition


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> *Palestinian Fauxtography of the Day: Baby in the Box Edition*
> By
> David Lange
> -
> February 11, 2020
> 1338
> A palestinian “journalist” has tweeted this heartbreaking photo from Gaza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except it isn’t – from Gaza, that is. It is from Idomeni, Greece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Surely if Gaza was as bad as these propagandists claim, it should be easy to find an authentic photo from there, instead of constantly trying to pass of photos from other parts of the world.
> 
> Palestinian Fauxtography of the Day: Baby in the Box Edition



Don’t expect a reply from Tinmore. He’s desperate !!!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The concept you spout: "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is very dangerous. Nowhere in the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) does it even mention anything close to the "right" as you have it here. In fact, it does not even use the terminology "Armed Struggle." That is a bumper sticker term.* In fact, it says the exact opposite.*


Where does it say that?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The only LAW that you cited was Protocol I. But it is a protocol attached to the Fourth Geneva Convention, which is the parent document.
> →
> AND what does the LAW say *exactly?* Well, → it tells the Occupying Force _(that would be Israel in the scenario you have framed)_ as to what is punishable under international law.


Israel constantly whines about so called terrorism. So then, why have they not taken any Palestinians to the ICC?

Oh, that's right, they don't have a case. All they have is BS.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*UNSC Holds Meeting to Discuss Trump's 'Deal of the Century'*

**
*What a cluster fuck!*

They all talk about the two state solution, They have been kicking that dead horse since 1947. There is no law demanding or even allowing the Partition of Palestine.

They wring their hands about violations of international law yet do not lift a finger to enforce it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"Said is an Arabic name that means “Happy” in English. This 10-year-old child called Said sells mint in Gaza streets, especially in Al-Remal area, central Gaza City.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, that takes more than just external, open-source, knowledge.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel constantly whines about so called terrorism. So then, why have they not taken any Palestinians to the ICC?
> 
> Oh, that's right, they don't have a case. All they have is BS.


*(ANSWER)*

Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC). 

◈   While the ICC is a permanent court of last resort, the court has not demonstrated its authority to prosecute State Governments (ie: State of Israel).  The Rome States are written to prosecute "people."

[quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
PART 1. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COURT
*Article 1*
An International Criminal Court ("the Court") is hereby established. It shall be a permanent institution and *shall have the power to exercise its jurisdiction over persons* for the most serious crimes of international concern, as referred to in this Statute, and shall be complementary to national criminal jurisdictions. The jurisdiction and functioning of the Court shall be governed by the provisions of this Statute.
[/quote]​[quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
*Article 22
Nullum crimen sine lege*
 2. The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted. 
[/quote]​
◈   We are not really sure that what the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) calls the:  "State of Palestine" is actually a "state."  

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is really autonomous and self-Governing?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is governed by a single authority?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine"  can stand alone?

✦  Does the "State of Palestine" perform the functionality of a "state?"​
There are many aspects to your question that need to be explored.  It will be interesting to see what the final outcome of the court's activities produces.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> *UNSC Holds Meeting to Discuss Trump's 'Deal of the Century'*
> 
> **
> *What a cluster fuck!*
> 
> They all talk about the two state solution, They have been kicking that dead horse since 1947. There is no law demanding or even allowing the Partition of Palestine.
> 
> They wring their hands about violations of international law yet do not lift a finger to enforce it.



If there will be only one state, it will be Israel anyway.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *UNSC Holds Meeting to Discuss Trump's 'Deal of the Century'*
> 
> **
> *What a cluster fuck!*
> 
> They all talk about the two state solution, They have been kicking that dead horse since 1947. There is no law demanding or even allowing the Partition of Palestine.
> 
> They wring their hands about violations of international law yet do not lift a finger to enforce it.



“ No Law ALLOWING “ the Partition of “ Palestine”.   

    “ International Law” Leave in peace with your neighbors
       Since Tinmore is so big on “ International Law” under that Israel was supposed to have access to their religious sites. So under what “ LAW” does the PLO state Israel has no right to them? There will not be a response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, that takes more than just external, open-source, knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel constantly whines about so called terrorism. So then, why have they not taken any Palestinians to the ICC?
> 
> Oh, that's right, they don't have a case. All they have is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
> 
> ◈   While the ICC is a permanent court of last resort, the court has not demonstrated its authority to prosecute State Governments (ie: State of Israel).  The Rome States are written to prosecute "people."
> 
> [quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
> PART 1. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COURT
> *Article 1*
> An International Criminal Court ("the Court") is hereby established. It shall be a permanent institution and *shall have the power to exercise its jurisdiction over persons* for the most serious crimes of international concern, as referred to in this Statute, and shall be complementary to national criminal jurisdictions. The jurisdiction and functioning of the Court shall be governed by the provisions of this Statute.​
Click to expand...


[quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
*Article 22
Nullum crimen sine lege*
 2. The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
[/quote]​◈   We are not really sure that what the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) calls the:  "State of Palestine" is actually a "state." 

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is really autonomous and self-Governing?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is governed by a single authority?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine"  can stand alone?

✦  Does the "State of Palestine" perform the functionality of a "state?"​
There are many aspects to your question that need to be explored.  It will be interesting to see what the final outcome of the court's activities produces.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. The Palestinians can't violate any international law because there is none.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, that takes more than just external, open-source, knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel constantly whines about so called terrorism. So then, why have they not taken any Palestinians to the ICC?
> 
> Oh, that's right, they don't have a case. All they have is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
> 
> ◈   While the ICC is a permanent court of last resort, the court has not demonstrated its authority to prosecute State Governments (ie: State of Israel).  The Rome States are written to prosecute "people."
> 
> [quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
> PART 1. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COURT
> *Article 1*
> An International Criminal Court ("the Court") is hereby established. It shall be a permanent institution and *shall have the power to exercise its jurisdiction over persons* for the most serious crimes of international concern, as referred to in this Statute, and shall be complementary to national criminal jurisdictions. The jurisdiction and functioning of the Court shall be governed by the provisions of this Statute.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
> PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
> *Article 22
> Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
Click to expand...

​◈   We are not really sure that what the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) calls the:  "State of Palestine" is actually a "state."

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is really autonomous and self-Governing?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is governed by a single authority?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine"  can stand alone?

✦  Does the "State of Palestine" perform the functionality of a "state?"​
There are many aspects to your question that need to be explored.  It will be interesting to see what the final outcome of the court's activities produces.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. The Palestinians can't violate any international law because there is none.[/QUOTE]

Good. Then the Israelis aren’t violating it either


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Abbas, Olmert denounce Trump's peace plan in rare joint address


   Abbas states he would love to resume " peace talks" where he left it with Olmert but didn't he reject all of Olmert's proposals?


   " Live in Peace with your Neighbors?"     

PA President Abbas: 'Millions Of Fighters' Will Take Over Jerusalem




Palestinian Authority Supreme Shari'a Judge And Abbas' Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: The Jews Have No Connection To Jerusalem; This Is An Imperialist Myth And Distortion Of History


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concept you spout: "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is very dangerous. Nowhere in the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) does it even mention anything close to the "right" as you have it here. In fact, it does not even use the terminology "Armed Struggle." That is a bumper sticker term.* In fact, it says the exact opposite.*
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

Are you blind? Why don’t YOU post a link proving your garbage lies about armed struggle???


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, that takes more than just external, open-source, knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel constantly whines about so called terrorism. So then, why have they not taken any Palestinians to the ICC?
> 
> Oh, that's right, they don't have a case. All they have is BS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
> 
> ◈   While the ICC is a permanent court of last resort, the court has not demonstrated its authority to prosecute State Governments (ie: State of Israel).  The Rome States are written to prosecute "people."
> 
> [quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
> PART 1. ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COURT
> *Article 1*
> An International Criminal Court ("the Court") is hereby established. It shall be a permanent institution and *shall have the power to exercise its jurisdiction over persons* for the most serious crimes of international concern, as referred to in this Statute, and shall be complementary to national criminal jurisdictions. The jurisdiction and functioning of the Court shall be governed by the provisions of this Statute.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [quote-"Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court"]
> PART 3. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
> *Article 22
> Nullum crimen sine lege*
> 2. The definition of a crime shall be *strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy*. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.​
Click to expand...

​◈   We are not really sure that what the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) calls the:  "State of Palestine" is actually a "state."

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is really autonomous and self-Governing?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine" is governed by a single authority?

✦  Ask if the "State of Palestine"  can stand alone?

✦  Does the "State of Palestine" perform the functionality of a "state?"​
There are many aspects to your question that need to be explored.  It will be interesting to see what the final outcome of the court's activities produces.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]


RoccoR said:


> Israel is not a signatory to the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Israel is a law free zone. It is the wild west of the Middle East. The Palestinians can't violate any international law because there is none.[/QUOTE]
My goodness Tinmore. Law free zone? Wild West of the Middle East? 
Your lies, your propaganda and your bullshit get more pathetic by the day.
Why don’t you look at some Muslim countries where it is ACTUALLY the Wild West...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I copy, pasted and linked it for you.  What do you need, a seeingieye service dog?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concept you spout: "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is very dangerous. Nowhere in the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) does it even mention anything close to the "right" as you have it here. In fact, it does not even use the terminology "Armed Struggle." That is a bumper sticker term.* In fact, it says the exact opposite.*
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

*(AGAIN)*

Please read it carefully.

_*Article 20 the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) does*_

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I copy, pasted and linked it for you.  What do you need, a seeingieye service dog?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The concept you spout: "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is very dangerous. Nowhere in the *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights* (CCPR) does it even mention anything close to the "right" as you have it here. In fact, it does not even use the terminology "Armed Struggle." That is a bumper sticker term.* In fact, it says the exact opposite.*
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say that?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(AGAIN)*
> 
> Please read it carefully.
> 
> _*Article 20 the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) does*_
> 
> 1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> 2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.​
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What part of that has anything to do with Palestinian defense?
Link? (not data dump)


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In your Posting #14641, you claim that the Arab Palestinians has the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*."  And you support that claim by saying that the right is documented by:

◈  Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949
◈  United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 
◈  UNGA resolution 37/43​
What part of that has anything to do with Palestinian defense?
Link? (not data dump)[/QUOTE]
*(AGAIN)*

I say that none of these support that contention.  I say they do not.

◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any offense authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
◈ *A/RES/3314* is NOT law. It merely defines "Aggression" and associate terms things.  But it also says the exact opposite in Article 5 _(whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression)_.
◈ * A/RES/37/43* is NOT law. It is a UN pontification describing the mood of the Assembly.​You asked for the explanation and the links. (Posting #14650) (Posting #14664)  I gave them to you.  This "data dump" complaint is an attempt to prevent the explanation of the answer.

One final point:  Your advancement of this idea that the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is an example of "propaganda for war."  And this claim you make that "armed struggle" in and by itself, is prohibited by International Law (Article 20 - CCPR).  The CCPR is the compendium of Civil and Political Rights, and nowhere in it will you find the "Right to Armed Struggle."   Promoting this fiction gives others_ (who fall prey to your ranting)_ encouragement to participate in violence.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In your Posting #14641, you claim that the Arab Palestinians has the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*."  And you support that claim by saying that the right is documented by:
> 
> ◈  Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949
> ◈  United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314
> ◈  UNGA resolution 37/43​
> What part of that has anything to do with Palestinian defense?
> Link? (not data dump)


*(AGAIN)*

I say that none of these support that contention.  I say they do not.

◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any offense authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
◈ *A/RES/3314* is NOT law. It merely defines "Aggression" and associate terms things.  But it also says the exact opposite in Article 5 _(whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression)_.
◈ * A/RES/37/43* is NOT law. It is a UN pontification describing the mood of the Assembly.​You asked for the explanation and the links. (Posting #14650) (Posting #14664)  I gave them to you.  This "data dump" complaint is an attempt to prevent the explanation of the answer.

One final point:  Your advancement of this idea that the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is an example of "propaganda for war."  And this claim you make that "armed struggle" in and by itself, is prohibited by International Law (Article 20 - CCPR).  The CCPR is the compendium of Civil and Political Rights, and nowhere in it will you find the "Right to Armed Struggle."   Promoting this fiction gives others_ (who fall prey to your ranting)_ encouragement to participate in violence.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]
Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.


RoccoR said:


> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.


This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Bernie Sanders and Rashida Tlaib


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In your Posting #14641, you claim that the Arab Palestinians has the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*."  And you support that claim by saying that the right is documented by:
> 
> ◈  Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949
> ◈  United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314
> ◈  UNGA resolution 37/43​
> What part of that has anything to do with Palestinian defense?
> Link? (not data dump)
> 
> 
> 
> *(AGAIN)*
> 
> I say that none of these support that contention.  I say they do not.
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any offense authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> ◈ *A/RES/3314* is NOT law. It merely defines "Aggression" and associate terms things.  But it also says the exact opposite in Article 5 _(whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may serve as a justification for aggression)_.
> ◈ * A/RES/37/43* is NOT law. It is a UN pontification describing the mood of the Assembly.​You asked for the explanation and the links. (Posting #14650) (Posting #14664)  I gave them to you.  This "data dump" complaint is an attempt to prevent the explanation of the answer.
> 
> One final point:  Your advancement of this idea that the "*Palestinians have a legal right to armed struggle*" is an example of "propaganda for war."  And this claim you make that "armed struggle" in and by itself, is prohibited by International Law (Article 20 - CCPR).  The CCPR is the compendium of Civil and Political Rights, and nowhere in it will you find the "Right to Armed Struggle."   Promoting this fiction gives others_ (who fall prey to your ranting)_ encouragement to participate in violence.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.


RoccoR said:


> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.


This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.[/QUOTE]
Rocco posted links to back up his statements . You posted jibberish. You lost, again. Get over it .


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



What Tinmore doesn’t speak about are those “ peaceful protests “ that occurred that day


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no "false premise" here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

100  Years ago - 1920

◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920

◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
THEN in 1948:

◈  They became either:

✦  Citizen of Israel.

✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.

✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:

◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
Today 2020

◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).

◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).

◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).

◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).

◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​


_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The PA Proves Why a Two State Solution Will Not Work - Israel Unwired

Olmert really believes they are people of " peace?"   Someone should ask him why Abbas rejected his offer without offering anything in return


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no "false premise" here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100  Years ago - 1920
> 
> ◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920
> 
> ◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
> THEN in 1948:
> ◈  They became either:
> 
> ✦  Citizen of Israel.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
> In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:
> 
> ◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
> ◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
> Today 2020
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> ◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians attend an art exhibition organized by the General Union of Cultural Centers in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud al-Hindi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man fixes a bicycle at his Gaza City shop.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian artist works on a sculpture during a workshop at the Shababek for Contemporary Art center in Gaza City. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no "false premise" here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100  Years ago - 1920
> 
> ◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920
> 
> ◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
> THEN in 1948:
> ◈  They became either:
> 
> ✦  Citizen of Israel.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
> In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:
> 
> ◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
> ◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
> Today 2020
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> ◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
Click to expand...

Learn how to read . It has EVERYTHING to do with your post...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian man fixes a bicycle at his Gaza City shop.





ILOVEISRAEL said:


> The PA Proves Why a Two State Solution Will Not Work - Israel Unwired
> 
> Olmert really believes they are people of " peace?"   Someone should ask him why Abbas rejected his offer without offering anything in return



All Tinmore has to offer is a “ funny face” Ask why Israel should accept the Pre 67 Conditions of being deprived of their Religious Sites and there will be no response. He honestly does not have the ability to understand that will never happen again


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no "false premise" here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100  Years ago - 1920
> 
> ◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920
> 
> ◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
> THEN in 1948:
> ◈  They became either:
> 
> ✦  Citizen of Israel.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
> In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:
> 
> ◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
> ◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
> Today 2020
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> ◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learn how to read . It has EVERYTHING to do with your post...
Click to expand...

Where did it mention defense?

It didn't.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al

The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?


*(COMMENT)*

*IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.  
_You know that*!*_​
This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.

And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).

BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.

You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.

*(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_

All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.


			
				Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
			
		

> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •



I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.

I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it. 

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...



Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?

Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Support students like Sarah and Thomas who were up against a multimillion-dollar suppression effort. palestinelegal.org/donate


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
Click to expand...

*(EPILOG)*

I have made my position as clear, uncomplicated and simplified as I can.  I think that I have cited all the relevant conventions that apply and the laws that are in effect TODAY...  We are not talking about a time when a principle author of the Federalist Papers was still living, or when James Madison was President.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Give to support students who want to study Palestine like Paul. 
palestinelegal.org/donate


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians celebrate their graduation at the University of Palestine in Gaza City. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(EPILOG)*
> 
> I have made my position as clear, uncomplicated and simplified as I can.  I think that I have cited all the relevant conventions that apply and the laws that are in effect TODAY...  We are not talking about a time when a principle author of the Federalist Papers was still living, or when James Madison was President.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I have made my position as clear, uncomplicated and simplified as I can.


Indeed, you believe that Palestinians have no rights


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no "false premise" here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100  Years ago - 1920
> 
> ◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920
> 
> ◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
> THEN in 1948:
> ◈  They became either:
> 
> ✦  Citizen of Israel.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
> In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:
> 
> ◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
> ◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
> Today 2020
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> ◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learn how to read . It has EVERYTHING to do with your post...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did itIt didn't.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no "false premise" here.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here again, you base your conclusion on false premise.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *Additional Protocol *1 does not grant any *offense* authority anywhere and the parent to the additional Protocol (GCIV) says the exact opposite in Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> This says nothing about Palestine's *defensive* position that it has held for a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> 100  Years ago - 1920
> 
> ◈  First, they were citizens of the Ottoman Empire under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA).  This was true until June 1920
> 
> ◈  Second, they were citizens of the Government of Palestine under the complete Administration of the British High Commissioner.​
> THEN in 1948:
> ◈  They became either:
> 
> ✦  Citizen of Israel.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> ✦  Citizens of the territory under the control of the Egyptian Military Government in the Gaza Strip.​
> In 1974:  The Seventh Arab League Summit Conference passed a resolution that stipulated:
> 
> ◈   Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.​
> ◈  December 1998, "Palestine" was a term used in place of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).​
> Today 2020
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of the territory under Area A (full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority).
> 
> ◈   Some are Citizens of territory under Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under Area C (full Israeli civil and security control).
> 
> ◈   Some are citizens of the territory under the control of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS).
> 
> ◈   And Some still remain Israeli citizens.​
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Learn how to read . It has EVERYTHING to do with your post...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did it mention defense?
> 
> It didn't.
Click to expand...

Do I need to break down his post word by word??? What are you; 3 years old? 
Why don’t you learn how to read and debate before you post


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
Click to expand...

Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
Click to expand...


Especially after 2000 and 2008.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ForeverYoung436 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Especially after 2000 and 2008.
Click to expand...


He can’t; Especially after 2005


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
Click to expand...

Why would Palestinians need to acquire Palestine?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
Click to expand...


Btw, as a general answer to your question, he would claim that the Palestinian terrorists are freedom fighters, like the Hagana and Irgun were, when they fought the British.  However, there are some differences.  First of all, the Jews didn't target civilians, but only British soldiers.  Secondly, they proclaimed independence in only part of Eretz Yisrael in 1948.  Palestinian terrorists target civilians,  and they rejected forming a state in part of "Palestine" in 2000 and 2008.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P


ForeverYoung436 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Btw, as a general answer to your question, he would claim that the Palestinian terrorists are freedom fighters, like the Hagana and Irgun were, when they fought the British.  However, there are some differences.  First of all, the Jews didn't target civilians, but only British soldiers.  Secondly, they proclaimed independence in only part of Eretz Yisrael in 1948.  Palestinian terrorists target civilians,  and they rejected forming a state in part of "Palestine" in 2000 and 2008.
Click to expand...


Olmert gave them almost everything they wanted. Ask why Abbas rejected it and there will be no response


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Must Have Skill of the 21st Century | Manal Fakhoury | TEDxAlManaraSquare*

**


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Palestinians need to acquire Palestine?
Click to expand...

Palestine is not a country, Israel is. You can cry all you want how you don’t believe Israel is a country blah blah blah. 
Fact is , Israel exists and you lost the argument with Rocco , again . Don’t you get tired of losing Tinmore ?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al
> 
> The idea that the Arab Palestinians had a "defensive position" of any sort, is nonsense.  They were not defending anything.  They were attempting to take sovereignty or territorial control away from those having or holding the title.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so? What does all that have to do with my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory or to achieve some political, economic, military or another objective, goal, or aim, *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are stepping outside international law.
> _You know that*!*_​
> This is just as true as what these Islamic Resistance Movement criminals know that the international law says:  Any person commits an offense by detonating an explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage has committed an act of terrorism.
> 
> And again, the fact that you promote the idea that the Arab Palestinians have the "right" to do this is a violation of the UNSC Resolution 1624 Incitement of Violence _(Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts)_ and the propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; as well as,  any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law; IAW Article 20, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR).
> 
> BEFORE you and the Arab Palestinians can defense something, it has to be theirs in the first place.  The Arab Palestinians _(formerly under the managed under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ was not awarded any territory under the treaty.
> 
> You and others claim that the Arab Palestinians are under "occupation" by the Israelis.  Whatever the reason you might claim as a people, any Protected persons who commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, is subject to prosecution under Article 68 • Section III: Occupied territories • Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV).  Again, to suggest it is not, and the Arab Palestinian have some "Right to Armed Struggle" is a violation of the law.
> 
> *(THE ALTERNATIVE) *_(In accordance with Article 2, paragraph 3, of the Charter of the United Nations and, to this end, shall seek a solution by the means indicated in Article 33, paragraph 1, of the Charter.)_
> 
> All States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter.  The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, is a bedrock fundamental under the Rule of Law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.
> SOURCE:  A/RES/25/2625 •
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​I know that this is a lot to absorb.  I know that you have been told by many propagandists that there is a provision for Armed Struggle, but the fact is, in the case of the Arab Palestinians there is NOT.  The must use Chapter VI: Pacific Settlements of Disputes.
> 
> I don't think I can make it any more plain or clear.  You know the Rule of Law.  It is what it is.  Those who have advocated for "Armed Struggle and Jihad" not only have forgotten the law, they have forgotten where they put it.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* you are suggesting, in any way, that the Arab Palestinians had any "Right to Armed Struggle" to acquire territory...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that it is illegal for the Palestinians to struggle to "acquire" Palestine?
> 
> Was it illegal for the US to "attack" Britain in 1812?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain how attacking Israelis is acquiring ‘Palestine’.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would Palestinians need to acquire Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine is not a country, Israel is. You can cry all you want how you don’t believe Israel is a country blah blah blah.
> Fact is , Israel exists and you lost the argument with Rocco , again . Don’t you get tired of losing Tinmore ?
Click to expand...


Consider the source. Every time he talks about “ Right of Return” I laugh so hard my wife thinks I’m crying.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Conference: State Formation in Palestine. Panel 3/3: The Way Forward*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Center Annual Conference 2019 - Panel 1*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian man weaves a wool carpet in a Gaza City workshop. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

A Zionist occupation soldier pointing his gun at the Palestinian elder Fathallah Dababsah as he is picking a popular Palestinian herb called "Khubaizah", it's a very popular Palestinian dish in this season. Pic was taken few days ago. Occupied Palestine, 8 February 2020.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Jericho/palestine 
12000 years old
The oldest city in the world.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Jericho/palestine
> 12000 years old
> The oldest city in the world.





About that 10,000-year history in Jericho, Mr. Erekat



Indeed, arguments like those made by Al-Najjah University professor Omar Ja’ara on Palestinian national television in 2012, whereby Moses was the leader of “the Muslim children of Israel,” may sound comically anachronistic to Jewish ears.


   Tinmore and others would have you believe that the Jewish people have NO historical connection to Jericho


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre

   For those who are for " Equality and Justice" I wonder what they would say about the above or the fact that Jews would be forbidden at their Holy Sites?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

h
J] It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movementewish Voice for Peace - Wikipedia​

   Anyone ever wonder why Tinmore LOVES this organization and supports it?  Above is the reason.    The bigot actually considers that ' justice:  
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Voice_for_Peace


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN.,,,, No link . How typical
[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 240655


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN.,,,, No link . How typical
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 240655
Click to expand...

Do you need a caption to tell you what is going on?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Empire Files: Israeli Army Vet’s Exposé - “I Was the Terrorist”*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN.,,,, No link . How typical
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 240655
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you need a caption to tell you what is going on?
Click to expand...


You want us to believe they just walked up to them and started to man handle them for no reason?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,

They are two different types of laws entirely.  One is domestic which by Charter, is untouchable by the UN.  The other is international, but not clear as to how it is applicable or when.



> On Mid-night May 14/15 1948, the British terminated their Administration of the Mandate over Palestine, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine, and the National Council for the Jewish State immediately proclaimed the independence of the State of Israel. The Soviet Union (USSR) was the first country to recognize Israel, followed promptly by the United States (US).



When the two principles → Super Powers → recognize the emergence of the new Jewish State (Israeli), what impact does that have on the Question of Palestine



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement with Voice for Peace - Wikipedia​
> Anyone ever wonder why Tinmore LOVES this organization and supports it?  Above is the reason.    The bigot actually considers that ' justice:
> ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Voice_for_Peace


*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinian Right-of-Return (RoR) is a fictional law.  It trying to use various international products to substantiate it.

◈  Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) 1948
◈  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948
◈  A/RES/394 (V) of 14 December 1950
◈  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) 1966 (entered into force 1976)
◈  S/RES/237 (1967) of 14 June 1967
◈  S/RES/242 (1967) of 22 November 1967
◈  S/RES/259 (1968) of 27 September 1968
◈  A RES 2535 (XXIV)A-C of 10 December 1969​
There is a very good argument to be made on the scope and nature of the Customary Law application relative to the Palestinian RoR, _force majeure_ or not.  The exception, most notably, is the denial in the case of criminals.

The Question of Palestine becomes expanded as we begin to ask:

◈  When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
◈  How retroactive is the application of the RoR Law?
◈  What is the relationship between the descendants of the Diaspora/Refugee and the RoR.​
The Question of Palestine and the application of the RoR becomes compounded as we explore:

When the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan extended its nationality and citizenship to the Palestinian Diaspora/Refugee, what impact did that have, if any on the RoR?



			
				The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan said:
			
		

> As a result of the war, many Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian-controlled areas found that union with Jordan was of vital importance to the preservation of Arab control over the “West Bank” territories which had not fallen to the Israelis. Consequently, in December 1948, a group of Palestinian leaders and notables from the West Bank convened a historic conference in Jericho, where they called for King Abdullah to take immediate steps to unite the two banks of the Jordan into a single state under his leadership.
> 
> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> 
> The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordan’s lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.



These and many more Questions of Palestine are unresolved.

In any event, the Israeli War of independence was ≈ 72 years ago.  How many Arab Palestinians _(for which the RoR is applicable)_ do you expect will be around in a decade given:

◈  Life expectancy at birth: total population: 74.54 years

✦  male: 72.54 years
✦  female: 76.65 years (2009 est.)​
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN.,,,, No link . How typical
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 240655
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you need a caption to tell you what is going on?
Click to expand...


Touch Football

v/r
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YAWN.,,,, No link . How typical
> [QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 240655
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you need a caption to tell you what is going on?
Click to expand...


Please tell us Tinmore , why are the soldiers grabbing this man ? Let me guess , you have no idea , so why post this picture...


----------



## toastman

Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis . 

I await your answer ...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?



Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...


Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Empire Files: Israeli Army Vet’s Exposé - “I Was the Terrorist”*
> 
> **






History & Overview of Hebron

   Another City that has a large Jewish History which would be VERBOTEN to the Jewish people if the Apartheid Palestinians had their way


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
Click to expand...


Great, now please be more specific. I want details, including specific events


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...



  Not going to get one anymore then I have gotten the answer to why the Jewish people would be forbidden to worship at their Religious Sites. When he can't answer a question he just ignores it


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
Click to expand...

Nice duck , now answer his question


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
Click to expand...



  YES,  it was !!!       

Joshua Muravchik has contested this reading, pointing out that the text states that the refugees "should be permitted" to return to their homes at the "earliest practicable date" and this recommendation applies only to those "wishing to... live at peace with their neighbors"[7].


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YES,  it was !!!
> 
> Joshua Muravchik has contested this reading, pointing out that the text states that the refugees "should be permitted" to return to their homes at the "earliest practicable date" and this recommendation applies only to those "wishing to... live at peace with their neighbors"[7].
Click to expand...

How many didn't?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mahmoud Abbas’s 1,000 nos


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YES,  it was !!!
> 
> Joshua Muravchik has contested this reading, pointing out that the text states that the refugees "should be permitted" to return to their homes at the "earliest practicable date" and this recommendation applies only to those "wishing to... live at peace with their neighbors"[7].
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many didn't?
Click to expand...



  I think what you meant was How many had the chance?  THANK GOD, not many but the link below SHOULD give you SOME idea ( probably won't)

   Since we are talking about " peace" is banning a group of people from their religious sites " peaceful?"


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Palestine Conciliation Commission (PCC)

The UN Charter is a binding agreement between the members that are signatories to it.   And thus, it is equivalent under Treaty Law as a binding between members.  It has no international standing beyond the *193* sovereign states.  AND!  Palestine is an observer BUT NOT a member, and not obligated. BUT*!*  The UN does not make law.   This is a key point and a principle reason to remember why your answer is completely wrong.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

✪  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 is NOT LAW.

What preexisting law are you eluding to?  You cannot answer that.  If you could, you would have cited it.
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Palestine Conciliation Commission (PCC)
> 
> The UN Charter is a binding agreement between the members that are signatories to it.   And thus, it is equivalent under Treaty Law as a binding between members.  It has no international standing beyond the *193* sovereign states.  AND!  Palestine is an observer BUT NOT a member, and not obligated. BUT*!*  The UN does not make law.   This is a key point and a principle reason to remember why your answer is completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 is NOT LAW.
> 
> What preexisting law are you eluding to?  You cannot answer that.  If you could, you would have cited it.
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

That is hard to say. International law is a web of laws derived from treaties and practices.  Sometimes there is a convention that will define and codify this loose swath of laws. Sometimes there will be a resolution, like resolution 194, that will draw from these laws to address a particular problem.

I have posted before a talk by Dr. Susan Akram. She is a professor of international law and practices immigration and refugee law.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Palestine Conciliation Commission (PCC)
> 
> The UN Charter is a binding agreement between the members that are signatories to it.   And thus, it is equivalent under Treaty Law as a binding between members.  It has no international standing beyond the *193* sovereign states.  AND!  Palestine is an observer BUT NOT a member, and not obligated. BUT*!*  The UN does not make law.   This is a key point and a principle reason to remember why your answer is completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ When did the Right of Return become an International Law?
> 
> 
> 
> Resolution 194 was written in compliance with already existing international law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> ✪  A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 is NOT LAW.
> 
> What preexisting law are you eluding to?  You cannot answer that.  If you could, you would have cited it.
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is hard to say. International law is a web of laws derived from treaties and practices.  Sometimes there is a convention that will define and codify this loose swath of laws. Sometimes there will be a resolution, like resolution 194, that will draw from these laws to address a particular problem.
> 
> I have posted before a talk by Dr. Susan Akram. She is a professor of international law and practices immigration and refugee law.
Click to expand...


All that sophistry and still no actual law because it's all blowing hot air,
you keep beating about Res. 194 but it was rejected by the Arab League.

The same as in 50 years you'll suggest citing the Trump Plan as a legal title to something,
after totally rejecting it, exactly as Arabs do today with the Olmert Plan, 30 years later...

Typical detachment from reality.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
Click to expand...


Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
Click to expand...

European colonial settlers are indigenous.

Good one.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,

You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.

To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*

I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.

I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.

I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.

Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?


----------



## The Purge

The muslims haven't  changed a drop since the Surrender Monkey and SoS Kerry showed their BIAS!!!


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
Click to expand...


Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.

Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> European colonial settlers are indigenous.
> 
> Good one.
Click to expand...


Nice soundbyte to evade reality.
But the Arabs came from the same countries they've expelled the Jews.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
Click to expand...







Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
Click to expand...

Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?


----------



## Rigby5

JoelT1 said:


> Who are the palestinians?



Totally and completely a lie.
First of all, the Philistines were Arab and spoke an Arab language, even though they also had Greek aspects.
Second is that the Romans did NOT at all create the name Palestine.  It existed thousands of year earlier in literature by Egyptians and Greeks.  Third is that there is ZERO Hebrew evidence until they invaded around 1000 BC, and they did not stay in power long.
The reality is that the Hebrew were also Arab, and the word Semitic means of an Arab language group.  
It is Israel that is the fake country that has no real history at all.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?
Click to expand...



Total and complete lie.
Back in 1834 the Jewish population of Palestine was less they 3%, and there was no massacre or any violence at all.  That did not happen until around 1922 when Jewish immigration started.  Totally made up propaganda.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tinmore , why do you keep ignoring me in the other thread? I keep asking you what specific acts that the Palestinians do are considered self defence ?? You kept mocking Rocco with posts like ‘self defence is terrorism?’ , followed by emojis .
> 
> I await your answer ...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything, including armed struggle, is legitimate self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
Click to expand...


Total lie.
The Jews in the Mideast and Spain lived under Arab/Muslim rule for thousands of years, without any violence.
In fact, it was the Arabs/Moslems who defended the Jews from the Christian crusades that tried to slaughter them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using “armed struggle” to prevent the self-determination of an indigenous peoples in their homeland is NOT self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?
Click to expand...

I don't know. There is no context here.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
Click to expand...


Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.

The defense is on the aggressor,
and that's not the Jewish community.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. There is no context here.
Click to expand...


it was your claim about self defense, now defend it for once.
But I won't hold my breath.

If Arabs are not the aggressors,
how come first Zionist organization was in response to Arab pogroms against local Jews?


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, toastman, et al,
> 
> You should at least give your fellow discussion members a fair hearing on their commentary.  They have consistently provided sound and valid opinions, facts and extrapolations.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> To say "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine"* is an endorsement* for the use of violence.
> 
> To say:  "Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it"* is a threat *to use violence.​*(JUST CONCEPTUALLY)*
> 
> I know that you know → ANY advocacy hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.ANY propaganda for war  _[International Armed Conflict (IAC) and Non-International Armed Conflict (NIAC)]_ shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> I know that you know  → ANY "consideration of whatever nature, whether political, economic, military or otherwise, may NOT serve as a justification" for act of aggression."​
> It is essential to build a global goal is international peace and security, as well as the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.
> 
> Create an environment to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace.  However, that is NOT the apparent objective behind their activities.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Total and complete lie.
> Back in 1834 the Jewish population of Palestine was less they 3%, and there was no massacre or any violence at all.  That did not happen until around 1922 when Jewish immigration started.  Totally made up propaganda.
Click to expand...


"Nothing back in 1834",
like an Arab pogrom against the Jewish community of Safed.

But that of course is just "the order of things",
doesn't count as an aggression when against Jews...

How could Arabs ever be aggressors


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms prior to Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know. There is no context here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it was your claim about self defense, now defend it for once.
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> If Arabs are not the aggressors,
> how come first Zionist organization was in response to Arab pogroms against local Jews?
Click to expand...


Keep on not holding your breath.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that the Palestinians are the aggressors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
> Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.
> 
> The defense is on the aggressor,
> and that's not the Jewish community.
Click to expand...

What was the plan to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country that was only about 3% Jewish?

Could that be done without violence?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
> Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.
> 
> The defense is on the aggressor,
> and that's not the Jewish community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the plan to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country that was only about 3% Jewish?
> 
> Could that be done without violence?
Click to expand...


Oh,  this again


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
> Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.
> 
> The defense is on the aggressor,
> and that's not the Jewish community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the plan to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country that was only about 3% Jewish?
> 
> Could that be done without violence?
Click to expand...


Are you saying the excuse for the Arab aggression prior to Zionism
was a plan mentioned above?

Care to back any of that?


----------



## Mindful

Hey, Rylah.


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> Hey, Rylah.



Good vibes,
good week neshamah.


----------



## Mindful

rylah said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Rylah.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good vibes,
> good week neshamah.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
> Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.
> 
> The defense is on the aggressor,
> and that's not the Jewish community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the plan to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country that was only about 3% Jewish?
> 
> Could that be done without violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh,  this again
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, it's a fatwa.
Surprised You didn't hear.
UN says so.

If Arabs attack the victims always carry the blame.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Karma Nabulsi: 'Solidarity with Palestine - From Nakba to Intifada'.*

**


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Karma Nabulsi: 'Solidarity with Palestine - From Nakba to Intifada'.*
> 
> **


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab pogroms against the local Jewish communities,
> predate all Zionist uprising, and were in fact the initial cause in its political formation.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice deflection.
> 
> Shooting people is not the only form of aggression.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what was the excuse for the Arab pogroms before Zionism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you believe that hate is created in a vacuum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please, that's exactly the question you have been evading for years.
> Show us the excuse for the Arab aggression against the local Jewish communities prior to Zionism.
> 
> The defense is on the aggressor,
> and that's not the Jewish community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was the plan to create an exclusive Jewish state in a country that was only about 3% Jewish?
> 
> Could that be done without violence?
Click to expand...


Get over it already.  You aren't Cherokee or Apache yourself.  Your ancestors didn't even come over on the Mayflower.

Considering that not much later, the Holocaust happened, which caused ppl like my grandparents, uncles and aunts to flee Europe and look for new homes, it's a very good thing that Israel was created in Eretz Yisrael.


----------



## toastman

Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:

my face is turning blue !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !






   You don't REALLY expect to get an answer; do you?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !





   You don't really expect an answer    


   Wait..... HERE IT IS !        
Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect an answer
> 
> 
> Wait..... HERE IT IS !
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

OK, I read yours...

Introduction - 1948


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect an answer
> 
> 
> Wait..... HERE IT IS !
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I read yours...
> 
> Introduction - 1948
Click to expand...


He posted factual events. You posted Palestinian propaganda.


----------



## MJB12741

P F Tinmore said:


> *“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*
> 
> **




I love these ladies & pray for their well being.  Who better to insure Trump's reelection?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect an answer
> 
> 
> Wait..... HERE IT IS !
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I read yours...
> 
> Introduction - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He posted factual events. You posted Palestinian propaganda.
Click to expand...

You are just blowing smoke. You didn't read it.


----------



## MJB12741

MJB12741 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *“Our Very Existence Is the Resistance”: An Hour w/ AOC, Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib & Ilhan Omar*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love these ladies & pray for their well being.  Who better to insure Trump's reelection?  They shall be the democrats who strengthen the republican party voter registration in the coming election.
Click to expand...


----------



## MJB12741

They shall be the democrats who strengthen the republican party voter registration in the coming election.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect an answer
> 
> 
> Wait..... HERE IT IS !
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I read yours...
> 
> Introduction - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He posted factual events. You posted Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blowing smoke. You didn't read it.
Click to expand...

Yes I did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still holding my breath while waiting for Tinmore to tell me what acts that the Palestinians partake are considered self defence .:
> 
> my face is turning blue !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't really expect an answer
> 
> 
> Wait..... HERE IT IS !
> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, I read yours...
> 
> Introduction - 1948
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He posted factual events. You posted Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just blowing smoke. You didn't read it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I did.
Click to expand...

You are lying. You did not read 17 pages in three minutes.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  "P F Tinmore,


P F Tinmore said:


> You are lying. You did not read 17 pages in three minutes.


*(COMMENT)*

I somehow seem to think that this historic article is more than five years old.
I think the last 'comment' to Least we Forget was in 2015?
And I'm not sure that LWF was the original source of the material.  I think this was the source of some Maps I've used.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  "P F Tinmore,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are lying. You did not read 17 pages in three minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I somehow seem to think that this historic article is more than five years old.
> I think the last 'comment' to Least we Forget was in 2015?
> And I'm not sure that LWF was the original source of the material.  I think this was the source of some Maps I've used.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Good read.

As Simple As A, B, and C - BLOG & NEWS-ON-WIRE - 1948

The Link - 1948


----------



## toomuchtime_

P F Tinmore said:


>


So what this video is saying is that peace, prosperity and nationhood for the so called Palestinians is simply not possible.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

The *Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is NOT binding* law; it never went into force.  Whereas the: 

*◈  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)* of 16 December 1966 entered into force 23 March 1976,​
The Right of Return was replaced by Articles 12 and 13 of the CCPR, and presents an entirely different argument.



P F Tinmore said:


> ...*Regaurding the video*...


*(COMMENT)*

Many pro-Arab Palestinian cite the UDHR as a life preserver; trying to imply it is Customary Law. 

Article 49, of the Fourth Geneva Convention, also says that: 

Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​
In the case of Article 49, relative to the Arab Palestinians the:

*◈*  The issues relating to the security of the population still demand the partial evacuation.

*◈*  The issues relating to the imperative military reasons still demand partial evacuation.​
On 6 February 1948, a communique was forwarded to the Secretary-General by the Representative of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC).  This communique stated that the AHC cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom. The AHC considers that imposing international alien immigrants on their country by force is nothing but an act of aggression and invasion, whether made by Jews themselves, through Great Britain, or by the United Nations. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation, therefore, expects that the duty of the United Nations is to remove the said aggression and stop that invasion. The creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression, it is something with no precedent in history. It is an act of wiping out the existence of an Arab country, violating its integrity, subjecting its land and people to foreign Jewish domination. “  The communique also included these salient points:

*◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them. 

*◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense. 

*◈* It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission. 

*◈* The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure. 

*◈* The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice. 

*◈* The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country. 

*◈* The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
The AHC feelings expressed here were not just paper threats, but represent the formal initiation of hostilities by the Arab Palestinian if the UN continues to attempt implementation of the Resolution A/RES/181 (II) and if the Jewish immigrants attempt, through the Right of Self-Determination, create a Jewish State.  And these coercive threats to peace have been reiterated in many forms and implemented in deadly fashion literally thousands of times over the last seven decades.  _THIS IS MORE THAN ENOUGH REASON TO MAINTAIN THE SEPARATION._

Finally, the little video starts-off with basically citing criteria from the CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ as if it were "law."  CERI criteria are NOT LAW.  It uses a set of criteria that would essentially continue the role of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) into the future.  It is in no way represents the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that applies to every other refugee situation throughout the rest of the world.   For example:

*◈*   It does not mean that the Palestinian Displaced, and descendants of Palestinian males, including legally adopted children, are true refugees.

*◈*   It does not mean that any Palestinian Displaced, under the protection of another country is a true refugee.​
And one more thing...  To be a true refugee under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), the Arab Palestinian must NOT be:

*◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes;

*◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;

*◈*   An Arab Palestinian that has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.​
So, in essence, any Arab Palestinian that has committed an offense that was solely intended to harm the Occupying Power inflicted seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them is NOT a true refugee anymore.

OK, I guess I've said enough about this little piece of propaganda.
_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The *Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is NOT binding* law; it never went into force.  Whereas the:
> 
> *◈  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)* of 16 December 1966 entered into force 23 March 1976,​
> The Right of Return was replaced by Articles 12 and 13 of the CCPR, and presents an entirely different argument.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...*Regaurding the video*...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many pro-Arab Palestinian cite the UDHR as a life preserver; trying to imply it is Customary Law.
> 
> Article 49, of the Fourth Geneva Convention, also says that:
> 
> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​
> In the case of Article 49, relative to the Arab Palestinians the:
> 
> *◈*  The issues relating to the security of the population still demand the partial evacuation.
> 
> *◈*  The issues relating to the imperative military reasons still demand partial evacuation.​
> On 6 February 1948, a communique was forwarded to the Secretary-General by the Representative of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC).  This communique stated that the AHC cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom. The AHC considers that imposing international alien immigrants on their country by force is nothing but an act of aggression and invasion, whether made by Jews themselves, through Great Britain, or by the United Nations. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation, therefore, expects that the duty of the United Nations is to remove the said aggression and stop that invasion. The creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression, it is something with no precedent in history. It is an act of wiping out the existence of an Arab country, violating its integrity, subjecting its land and people to foreign Jewish domination. “  The communique also included these salient points:
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> *◈* It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> *◈* The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> *◈* The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> *◈* The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> The AHC feelings expressed here were not just paper threats, but represent the formal initiation of hostilities by the Arab Palestinian if the UN continues to attempt implementation of the Resolution A/RES/181 (II) and if the Jewish immigrants attempt, through the Right of Self-Determination, create a Jewish State.  And these coercive threats to peace have been reiterated in many forms and implemented in deadly fashion literally thousands of times over the last seven decades.  _THIS IS MORE THAN ENOUGH REASON TO MAINTAIN THE SEPARATION._
> 
> Finally, the little video starts-off with basically citing criteria from the CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ as if it were "law."  CERI criteria are NOT LAW.  It uses a set of criteria that would essentially continue the role of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) into the future.  It is in no way represents the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that applies to every other refugee situation throughout the rest of the world.   For example:
> 
> *◈*   It does not mean that the Palestinian Displaced, and descendants of Palestinian males, including legally adopted children, are true refugees.
> 
> *◈*   It does not mean that any Palestinian Displaced, under the protection of another country is a true refugee.​
> And one more thing...  To be a true refugee under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), the Arab Palestinian must NOT be:
> 
> *◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes;
> 
> *◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;
> 
> *◈*   An Arab Palestinian that has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.​
> So, in essence, any Arab Palestinian that has committed an offense that was solely intended to harm the Occupying Power inflicted seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them is NOT a true refugee anymore.
> 
> OK, I guess I've said enough about this little piece of propaganda.
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What part of all that negates the right to return?

Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Representative Rashida Tlaib joined the Climate Strike on Friday and shared this wonderful photo from her Michigan district with the message "We have the right to breathe!"


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.



P F Tinmore said:


> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?


*(COMMENT)*

Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.

Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.

All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."

*IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
*THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.

*IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
*THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.

The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:

What are Arab Palestinians defending?

What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_

What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
_​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...

The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.

The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?



_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.


Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Here is a beautiful picture from #Gaza of a Palestinian child selling strawberries and green peas near the seaport.


----------



## P F Tinmore

By Rana Ramlawi.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

Another bumper sticker?



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

The refusal of the Arab Palestinians to recognize the Self-Determination to establish its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government IS NOT an excuse to trample the rights of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel.

No expression of threats, hostile intent, Jihadist and Fedayeen babble, and the blackmail with coercion against regional peace trumps the right of the Jewish People to the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Unremarked!
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The 1948 War of Independence was a military confrontation between the forces of Israel and the forces of the Arab League.  The 1967 Six-Day War and 1973 YomKipper War were extensions of the War that was under Armistice.  The Arab League occupied the UN Trustee Territory of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip until the threat of Invasion - at which point the Israeli Forces pursued the Arab League to the agreed-upon boundaries.  Both Egypt and Jordan eventually made peace with Israel; without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian.   

You keep thinking that the Arab Palestinians had some stake in the outcome.  They did not.  The conflict was between the State of Israel and the Arab League.  The Treaties were made between Israel and the individual states of the Arab League, where necessary.

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Another bumper sticker?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The refusal of the Arab Palestinians to recognize the Self-Determination to establish its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government IS NOT an excuse to trample the rights of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel.
> 
> No expression of threats, hostile intent, Jihadist and Fedayeen babble, and the blackmail with coercion against regional peace trumps the right of the Jewish People to the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unremarked!
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 War of Independence was a military confrontation between the forces of Israel and the forces of the Arab League.  The 1967 Six-Day War and 1973 YomKipper War were extensions of the War that was under Armistice.  The Arab League occupied the UN Trustee Territory of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip until the threat of Invasion - at which point the Israeli Forces pursued the Arab League to the agreed-upon boundaries.  Both Egypt and Jordan eventually made peace with Israel; without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> You keep thinking that the Arab Palestinians had some stake in the outcome.  They did not.  The conflict was between the State of Israel and the Arab League.  The Treaties were made between Israel and the individual states of the Arab League, where necessary.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Still has nothing to do with Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,

You are purposely avoiding the truth.  

*IF* you do not think that the fact the Arab League interventionist prevented the Arab Palestinians from establishing control over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, *THEN* you are being disingenuous. 



P F Tinmore said:


> Still has nothing to do with Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian only perceives what supports their position.  

_

_
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The 1948 War of Independence was a military confrontation between the forces of Israel and the forces of the Arab League.


Palestine did not join the Arab League until 1974.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> The *Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is NOT binding* law; it never went into force.  Whereas the:
> 
> *◈  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)* of 16 December 1966 entered into force 23 March 1976,​
> The Right of Return was replaced by Articles 12 and 13 of the CCPR, and presents an entirely different argument.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...*Regaurding the video*...
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Many pro-Arab Palestinian cite the UDHR as a life preserver; trying to imply it is Customary Law.
> 
> Article 49, of the Fourth Geneva Convention, also says that:
> 
> Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.​
> In the case of Article 49, relative to the Arab Palestinians the:
> 
> *◈*  The issues relating to the security of the population still demand the partial evacuation.
> 
> *◈*  The issues relating to the imperative military reasons still demand partial evacuation.​
> On 6 February 1948, a communique was forwarded to the Secretary-General by the Representative of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC).  This communique stated that the AHC cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising or derived therefrom. The AHC considers that imposing international alien immigrants on their country by force is nothing but an act of aggression and invasion, whether made by Jews themselves, through Great Britain, or by the United Nations. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation, therefore, expects that the duty of the United Nations is to remove the said aggression and stop that invasion. The creation of any Jewish state in an Arab territory is more than invasion or aggression, it is something with no precedent in history. It is an act of wiping out the existence of an Arab country, violating its integrity, subjecting its land and people to foreign Jewish domination. “  The communique also included these salient points:
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
> 
> *◈* It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
> 
> *◈* The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
> 
> *◈* The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
> 
> *◈* The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
> 
> *◈* The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> The AHC feelings expressed here were not just paper threats, but represent the formal initiation of hostilities by the Arab Palestinian if the UN continues to attempt implementation of the Resolution A/RES/181 (II) and if the Jewish immigrants attempt, through the Right of Self-Determination, create a Jewish State.  And these coercive threats to peace have been reiterated in many forms and implemented in deadly fashion literally thousands of times over the last seven decades.  _THIS IS MORE THAN ENOUGH REASON TO MAINTAIN THE SEPARATION._
> 
> Finally, the little video starts-off with basically citing criteria from the CERI _(Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions)_ as if it were "law."  CERI criteria are NOT LAW.  It uses a set of criteria that would essentially continue the role of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) into the future.  It is in no way represents the Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that applies to every other refugee situation throughout the rest of the world.   For example:
> 
> *◈*   It does not mean that the Palestinian Displaced, and descendants of Palestinian males, including legally adopted children, are true refugees.
> 
> *◈*   It does not mean that any Palestinian Displaced, under the protection of another country is a true refugee.​
> And one more thing...  To be a true refugee under Customary and International Humanitarian Law (IHL), the Arab Palestinian must NOT be:
> 
> *◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes;
> 
> *◈*     An Arab Palestinian that has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee;
> 
> *◈*   An Arab Palestinian that has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.​
> So, in essence, any Arab Palestinian that has committed an offense that was solely intended to harm the Occupying Power inflicted seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them is NOT a true refugee anymore.
> 
> OK, I guess I've said enough about this little piece of propaganda.
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
Click to expand...

What self defence are you talking about Tinmore ? You never answered my question. Give me SPECIFIC incidents where Palestinians defended themselves ..


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
Click to expand...

What about his post is BS Tinmore? He posted links with factual evidence , what did you post? All you got are propaganda videos ...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Another bumper sticker?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The refusal of the Arab Palestinians to recognize the Self-Determination to establish its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government IS NOT an excuse to trample the rights of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel.
> 
> No expression of threats, hostile intent, Jihadist and Fedayeen babble, and the blackmail with coercion against regional peace trumps the right of the Jewish People to the territorial integrity or political independence of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unremarked!
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1948 War of Independence was a military confrontation between the forces of Israel and the forces of the Arab League.  The 1967 Six-Day War and 1973 YomKipper War were extensions of the War that was under Armistice.  The Arab League occupied the UN Trustee Territory of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip until the threat of Invasion - at which point the Israeli Forces pursued the Arab League to the agreed-upon boundaries.  Both Egypt and Jordan eventually made peace with Israel; without prejudice to the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> You keep thinking that the Arab Palestinians had some stake in the outcome.  They did not.  The conflict was between the State of Israel and the Arab League.  The Treaties were made between Israel and the individual states of the Arab League, where necessary.
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Seriously Tinmore, were you hit on the head as a child? EVERYTHING in Rocco’s post has to do with Palestine . 
Debating with you is like debating with a little child who gets agitated when they don’t get their way


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about his post is BS Tinmore? He posted links with factual evidence , what did you post? All you got are propaganda videos ...
Click to expand...

He bases his conclusions on unsubstantiated Israeli talking points and irrelevant information.

You haven't been following my posts.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ "P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, you can't seem to fit the logic together.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part of all that negates the right to return?
> 
> Why do you call Palestinian self defense hostilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Once I determine that none of the citations are proven invalid, you understand that the concept behind the "Right" is fallacious.
> 
> Once I determined that there is no validity to the claim that anything is being "defended;" but rather the forceful attempt to fraudulently take something that was not theirs, to begin with, the logic falls in place as discussed in *Posting #4*.
> 
> All people have the "Right of Self-Defense."
> 
> *IF* the Israelis have Sovereign Territory and some other entity threatens that Sovereignty -
> *THEN* Israel hold the "Right of Self-Defense" in the protection and security of that Sovereignty.
> 
> *IF* the Arab Palestinians have no Sovereignty -
> *THEN* the Arab Palestinians are on the "Offense" and NOT the "Defense."​
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians have the "Right to Self-Defense." The questions are:
> 
> What are Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> What sovereignty (1) do Arab Palestinians have?_ (Some territorial integrity they have sole power or authority.)_
> 
> What sovereignty (2) was taken from Arab Palestinians? _(Some territorial integrity they had sole power or authority but that the Israelis had taken from them.)
> _​It cannot be either the West Bank - including Jerusalem - and the Gaza Strip...
> 
> The West Bank and Jerusalem were acquired by the Israelis from the Jordanians.
> 
> The Gaza Strip was acquired from the Egyptian Military Governorship.​
> I ask this because I have not found an Arab Palestinian yet, who can answer: What are they fighting for in the defense role?
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> However you want to characterize the way in which the Israelis acquired control of the West Bank or Gaza Strip, it is over and done with. Israel has made peace with both the Jordanians and the Egyptians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Egypt and Jordan have nothing to do with Palestine, They are separate countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What about his post is BS Tinmore? He posted links with factual evidence , what did you post? All you got are propaganda videos ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He bases his conclusions on unsubstantiated Israeli talking points and irrelevant information.
> 
> You haven't been following my posts.
Click to expand...


you say that because you disagree with what he says. But that doesn’t make it an ‘Israeli talking point’..
Again, he backs up his claims with links. That’s more than I can say for you...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
*Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*





Nariman Tamimi (left), Bassem Tamimi (center), and Ahed Tamimi (right) walk into Nabi Saleh after Nariman and Ahed are released from Israeli prison, July 29, 2018. (Oren Ziv)

*‘There is one settlement, and it’s Israel’*
Tamimi wholeheartedly believes in returning to the tactics of the First Intifada. “It changed perceptions, because everyone could participate. In a popular protest everyone can, and needs to, play a part.

'We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing'


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israel strikes Gaza and Syria after Palestinian rocket attacks


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




So?

   I care as much about him as you care about the Fogel Family and others


----------



## P F Tinmore

*‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
*Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*








ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> I care as much about him as you care about the Fogel Family and others
Click to expand...

You people milk one incident for years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Protesters effectively shut down an Israeli-owned factory’s operations for two days. (Photo via Manchester Palestine Action)


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
> *Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nariman Tamimi (left), Bassem Tamimi (center), and Ahed Tamimi (right) walk into Nabi Saleh after Nariman and Ahed are released from Israeli prison, July 29, 2018. (Oren Ziv)
> 
> *‘There is one settlement, and it’s Israel’*
> Tamimi wholeheartedly believes in returning to the tactics of the First Intifada. “It changed perceptions, because everyone could participate. In a popular protest everyone can, and needs to, play a part.
> 
> 'We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing'



Gotta love the 'Crying Cossack' whining about settling land, the name of which he can't even pronounce.

*Tamimi are the royal tribe of Qatar*, what did they give up,
their aristocracy status under the Caliphate, or murdering Jews?

Aramco is 1/3 of  world's economy, in the country where they are the ruling religious dynasty,
yet they whine about less than 1% of the land they didn't manage to keep under submission, on their quest of plundering the entire middle east.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



How else would you think to pick a dead Islamic Jihad terrorists under fire?

Interestingly, the video is shot from an angle the hides the tank right behind.
The body being picked up is of a couple that came on a bike and put an explosive on the border perimeter, on their way back got neutralized by an AT charge. Then other Islamic Jihad militants started a shoot out as a deflection maneuver, while a group charging towards the perimeter while another 2 neutralized.

Israeli Defense minister Bennet,  clearly warned them beforehand,
until Hamas returns all captured Israelis, no dead terrorist will be brought to burial,
and they will collect all of them - specifically pointing out the same expects their leaders next.

They're probably already preparing pictures with fuzzy bears...
But Islamic Jihad already.took responsibility.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
> *Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> I care as much about him as you care about the Fogel Family and others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people milk one incident for years.
Click to expand...

  Deflection, Did you care at the time? Let’s talk about those three Israelis that were murdered or that Israeli girl who was raped and murdered
  The Answer is “ no” Wait.,,,,  What did you tell me! I remember.,,,,  Not my problem


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
> *Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> I care as much about him as you care about the Fogel Family and others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people milk one incident for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection, Did you care at the time? Let’s talk about those three Israelis that were murdered or that Israeli girl who was raped and murdered
> The Answer is “ no” Wait.,,,,  What did you tell me! I remember.,,,,  Not my problem
Click to expand...

I don't recall you condemning the 500 Palestinian children that Israel killed in 2014.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *‘We gave up on historic Palestine in exchange for nothing’*
> *Bassem Tamimi, who has led popular protests in Nabi Saleh for more than a decade, says the two-state solution is 'no longer an option.'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> I care as much about him as you care about the Fogel Family and others
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You people milk one incident for years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection, Did you care at the time? Let’s talk about those three Israelis that were murdered or that Israeli girl who was raped and murdered
> The Answer is “ no” Wait.,,,,  What did you tell me! I remember.,,,,  Not my problem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't recall you condemning the 500 Palestinian children that Israel killed in 2014.
Click to expand...


To quote you; “ It’s not my problem “ Why should I feel differently? 
You want to believe that Palestinian deaths are NOT related to
Rocket attacks or those “ peaceful protests?”  Keep telling yourself that

Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
   Seriously, why should anyone who believes Israel has the right to exist feel differently about the Palestinians? I don’t


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”


I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> You want to believe that Palestinian deaths are NOT related to
> Rocket attacks or those “ peaceful protests?”


And you believe that Israeli deaths have nothing to do with 7 decades of Nakba. (Death, destruction, dispossession, theft, etc.)


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Gazan children give disturbing answer to a simple question


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to believe that Palestinian deaths are NOT related to
> Rocket attacks or those “ peaceful protests?”
> 
> 
> 
> And you believe that Israeli deaths have nothing to do with 7 decades of Nakba. (Death, destruction, dispossession, theft, etc.)
Click to expand...


  Your usual deflection.  Still no condemnation of what happened to that girl or others AND the Antisemitic attacks world wide


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
> 
> 
> 
> I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.
Click to expand...



   Thank you for proving my point.  Obviously no one is asking you to do " anything" about it but it can still be condemned.  Why can't you?  It's because your a Hypocrite
     Now answer my question;  Why should I then care about ANY Palestinian death?   There is nothing I can do about that


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

'Beautiful in and out': Memorial trek for murdered Jewish teen

   This is what matters to me and this is what I cry for;

   TGazan children give disturbing answer to a simple question t

     As opposed to this


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

WATCH: We Kill Because it’s a Palestinian ‘Value,’ Says Senior Fatah Official

   Yea, I think the Jewish people should care about the Palestinian deaths


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinian Ministry of Health Announces The Arrival of Coronavirus in “Palestine”*
By
David Lange
 - 
February 24, 2020
Quds News Network have posted a video announcing the arrival of coronavirus in “Palestine.”

Ministry of Health (run by Hamas) made the announcement. It is clear they are basing it on the findings of the Israeli Health Ministry days ago (but won’t admit it).

What is interesting about the video is besides Jerusalem, all the places mentioned are actually in the palestinian-controlled territories.

Naturally, we can expect more comments like this one from the lovely QNN readers





I guess there is only one thing left for the palestinians to do – burn some more rubber!

Palestinian Ministry of Health Announces The Arrival of Coronavirus in 'Palestine'


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Little Boy Excited to "Shoot Jews" in Palestinian Authority Promoted Video

   Go " live in peace" with these Animals.  Notice how the Palestinian killer to be mentions ALL of Jerusalem; not E. Jerusalem?

     Give it a few years, and we will hear that the ISRAELIS killed this young innocent boy during a " peaceful protest"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ahed Tamimi in London.*

*



*

*



*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Free Palestine Movement - Wikipedia

This is what the " Free Palestine Movement" is all about


----------



## Kondor3

Time to chase their nasty a$$e$ out of Gaza and (what little is left of) the West Bank and push 'em into Jordan and annex the land.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



   First he yells and screams that the Israelis aren't abiding by " International Law" then he yells and screams that Israel has no right to exist....  Which one is it?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Israel wants gradual annexation now, US wants it all at once later


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN.,,,,,  No Israelis in “ Palestine “ There will be no response.,,  Thete never is.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*

**


----------



## Kondor3

The sooner the so-called 'Palestinians' are pushed to the east side of the Jordan River the sooner this goes away. 

2020 - 1949 = 71 years of listening to these Neanderthal squatter-losers whining and pissing and moaning is quite enough.

Time to cut the Gordian Knot and get rid of them... buy-out those who want the money, and run the others out at gunpoint.

The Jordanians granted them all citizenship decades ago... and that jives with the old 1922 League of Nations partition proposal.






The Jordanians should absorb the 'population bubble', take some grant money from Israel et al to help them adapt, and be done with it.

Hell, according to the so-called 'Palestinians' own propaganda maps, there isn't enough land left to make a viable state anyway...






...and it's not like they're going to ever, *ever* get any of it back.

Recently, more of the world has recognized Jerusalem as the true capital of Israel...

Recently, the Israelis are preparing massive large-scale annexations of much of what little is left of the West Bank...

And, given that most of the Muslim-Arab countries of the region have degenerated into weak, chaotic tribal-warfare cesspools...

It's not like any of the Arab Legions of old are going to be mustering anytime soon to come to the rescue of those fools...

It's been tried... repeatedly... and the Arabs have had their asses handed to them by the IDF... repeatedly...

It's all over... Israel has won... it's now merely a matter of those fools in Gaza and (what little is left of) the West Bank realizing it...

There is no future for so-called Palestinians where they are now... time to leave...

Any Pali with an ounce of common sense and two shekels to rub together needs to get his people the hell out of there while they still can.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **



“ In 1967 the Palestinians occupied the West Bank”
  But what is NOT mentioned is that the Arabs initiated that War to destroy Israel and push the Israelis into the Sea . Keep posting!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **




  Ask any Pro Palestinian even if Israel met all their demands( they won't) how it could ever reasonably end and there will be no response especially Tinmore

The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre

BTW, this does not fall under the U. N. Definition of “ International Law “ ; proof those words aren’t worth the peace of paper it’s written on


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Kondor3 said:


> The sooner the so-called 'Palestinians' are pushed to the east side of the Jordan River the sooner this goes away.
> 
> 2020 - 1949 = 71 years of listening to these Neanderthal squatter-losers whining and pissing and moaning is quite enough.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot and get rid of them... buy-out those who want the money, and run the others out at gunpoint.
> 
> The Jordanians granted them all citizenship decades ago... and that jives with the old 1922 League of Nations partition proposal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians should absorb the 'population bubble', take some grant money from Israel et al to help them adapt, and be done with it.
> 
> Hell, according to the so-called 'Palestinians' own propaganda maps, there isn't enough land left to make a viable state anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and it's not like they're going to ever, *ever* get any of it back.
> 
> Recently, more of the world has recognized Jerusalem as the true capital of Israel...
> 
> Recently, the Israelis are preparing massive large-scale annexations of much of what little is left of the West Bank...
> 
> And, given that most of the Muslim-Arab countries of the region have degenerated into weak, chaotic tribal-warfare cesspools...
> 
> It's not like any of the Arab Legions of old are going to be mustering anytime soon to come to the rescue of those fools...
> 
> It's been tried... repeatedly... and the Arabs have had their asses handed to them by the IDF... repeatedly...
> 
> It's all over... Israel has won... it's now merely a matter of those fools in Gaza and (what little is left of) the West Bank realizing it...
> 
> There is no future for so-called Palestinians where they are now... time to leave...
> 
> Any Pali with an ounce of common sense and two shekels to rub together needs to get his people the hell out of there while they still can.



These are accurate maps of Areas A, B, and C in the West Bank.  But the population there is still very large.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ In 1967 the Israelis occupied the West Bank”
> But what is NOT mentioned is that the Arabs initiated that War to destroy Israel and push the Israelis into the Sea . Keep posting!
Click to expand...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ In 1967 the Palestinians occupied the West Bank”
> But what is NOT mentioned is that the Arabs initiated that War to destroy Israel and push the Israelis into the Sea . Keep posting!
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “ In 1967 the Israelis occupied the West Bank”
> But what is NOT mentioned is that the Arabs initiated that War to destroy Israel and push the Israelis into the Sea . Keep posting!
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
> 
> 
> 
> I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  Obviously no one is asking you to do " anything" about it but it can still be condemned.  Why can't you?  It's because your a Hypocrite
> Now answer my question;  Why should I then care about ANY Palestinian death?   There is nothing I can do about that
Click to expand...

Well, you could stop cheering.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Process: Will the Palestine/Israel Conflict Ever End? (Global Documentary) | Real Stories*
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask any Pro Palestinian even if Israel met all their demands( they won't) how it could ever reasonably end and there will be no response especially Tinmore
> 
> The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre
> 
> BTW, this does not fall under the U. N. Definition of “ International Law “ ; proof those words aren’t worth the peace of paper it’s written on
Click to expand...


Ask Tinmore why he thinks this is funny and there will be no response


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
> 
> 
> 
> I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  Obviously no one is asking you to do " anything" about it but it can still be condemned.  Why can't you?  It's because your a Hypocrite
> Now answer my question;  Why should I then care about ANY Palestinian death?   There is nothing I can do about that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you could stop cheering.
Click to expand...


Deflection . Tell me one reason why I should “ care”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
> 
> 
> 
> I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  Obviously no one is asking you to do " anything" about it but it can still be condemned.  Why can't you?  It's because your a Hypocrite
> Now answer my question;  Why should I then care about ANY Palestinian death?   There is nothing I can do about that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you could stop cheering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection . Tell me one reason why I should “ care”.
Click to expand...

Moral values.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*The Movement and the Middle East: How the Arab-Israeli Conflict Divided the American Left*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Jewish Voice for Peace


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace



Not even his relatives, or the Hamas run Health ministry in Gaza confirm this,
none of them say he was shot - that's just another blood libel.
And something tells me you already knew it was.

Latest Blood Libel: The Death of 4-Year-Old Ahmed Abu Abed

But really, what responsible parent brings a 4 y.o.
to a violent confrontation in the first place?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.,,,,, Regarding Anti Semitic attacks that are happening all over ( Not Israeli) your comment was again( “ I don’t go there; not my problem”
> 
> 
> 
> I am out of that circle. There is nothing I can do about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.  Obviously no one is asking you to do " anything" about it but it can still be condemned.  Why can't you?  It's because your a Hypocrite
> Now answer my question;  Why should I then care about ANY Palestinian death?   There is nothing I can do about that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you could stop cheering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection . Tell me one reason why I should “ care”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moral values.
Click to expand...


You’ve admitted you don’t care about Israeli deaths or Innocent Jews ( not Israelis) being the Victims of Antisemitism to the point where they are murdered and YOU talk about “
Moral Values?”    
  Talk about Racism and Hypocrisy


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace




One wonders, if your cause is so just, why you have to lie to defend it.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace


----------



## Kondor3

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner the so-called 'Palestinians' are pushed to the east side of the Jordan River the sooner this goes away.
> 
> 2020 - 1949 = 71 years of listening to these Neanderthal squatter-losers whining and pissing and moaning is quite enough.
> 
> Time to cut the Gordian Knot and get rid of them... buy-out those who want the money, and run the others out at gunpoint.
> 
> The Jordanians granted them all citizenship decades ago... and that jives with the old 1922 League of Nations partition proposal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jordanians should absorb the 'population bubble', take some grant money from Israel et al to help them adapt, and be done with it.
> 
> Hell, according to the so-called 'Palestinians' own propaganda maps, there isn't enough land left to make a viable state anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and it's not like they're going to ever, *ever* get any of it back.
> 
> Recently, more of the world has recognized Jerusalem as the true capital of Israel...
> 
> Recently, the Israelis are preparing massive large-scale annexations of much of what little is left of the West Bank...
> 
> And, given that most of the Muslim-Arab countries of the region have degenerated into weak, chaotic tribal-warfare cesspools...
> 
> It's not like any of the Arab Legions of old are going to be mustering anytime soon to come to the rescue of those fools...
> 
> It's been tried... repeatedly... and the Arabs have had their asses handed to them by the IDF... repeatedly...
> 
> It's all over... Israel has won... it's now merely a matter of those fools in Gaza and (what little is left of) the West Bank realizing it...
> 
> There is no future for so-called Palestinians where they are now... time to leave...
> 
> Any Pali with an ounce of common sense and two shekels to rub together needs to get his people the hell out of there while they still can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are accurate maps of Areas A, B, and C in the West Bank.  But the population there is still very large.
Click to expand...

Correct. Until they are expelled. By force.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace


The Palis need to keep their kids away from the fence... idiots.


----------



## Kondor3

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.


Blah, blah, endless frigging blah...


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace





Jewish Voice for Peace - Wikipedia

   Ever wonder why Tinmore loves this organization so much?    This is only one reason.  Talk about Racism, bigotry and Hypocrisy    

It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One wonders, if your cause is so just, why you have to lie to defend it.
Click to expand...


He does that all the time; Shows photos and  and made up posts without any links


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



Thank you for another stupid post. One Palestinian admitted that Arafat’s goal was NOT the “ 67 Borders” we hear about so often but the 48
  Another one admitted with “ Right of Return” Israelis and Arabs can’t live together ; it’s “ our land and they don’t belong here “ and the long term goal would be to kick the Israelis out driving them right into the sea.  

“
Live in peace with your neighbors?”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN.,,,  “ Living in peace with your neighbors” Somehow he always “ forgets” that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib on the Holocaust & Combating Hate Crimes*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.








 Funny x *2*
Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL

What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?

That is so 3rd world.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny x *2*
> Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL
> 
> What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> That is so 3rd world.
Click to expand...


You’re not giving a SHIT about Israeli or Jewish ( Non Israeli) Human life. You said so yourself

Slightly off topic, but your own You Tube Videos clarify the Palestinians have no intention of living in “ peace”   Try to be honest and admit your hypocrisy.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



You don’t have the ability to understand that topic is officially off the table


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny x *2*
> Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL
> 
> What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> That is so 3rd world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not giving a SHIT about Israeli or Jewish ( Non Israeli) Human life. You said so yourself
> 
> Slightly off topic, but your own You Tube Videos clarify the Palestinians have no intention of living in “ peace”   Try to be honest and admit your hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with my post?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny x *2*
> Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL
> 
> What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> That is so 3rd world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not giving a SHIT about Israeli or Jewish ( Non Israeli) Human life. You said so yourself
> 
> Slightly off topic, but your own You Tube Videos clarify the Palestinians have no intention of living in “ peace”   Try to be honest and admit your hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this have to do with my post?
Click to expand...


I answered your post . Your question was about my “ smiley face”   Go back and re read it 
   Isn’t that much difference between a “ smiley face” and admitting you don’t give a SHIT even when NON ISRAELIS get killed in Antisemitic Hate crimes 

  Your post isn’t about my “ slightly off topic” comment but it’s still a Valid point. Why can’t you answer it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny x *2*
> Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL
> 
> What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> That is so 3rd world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not giving a SHIT about Israeli or Jewish ( Non Israeli) Human life. You said so yourself
> 
> Slightly off topic, but your own You Tube Videos clarify the Palestinians have no intention of living in “ peace”   Try to be honest and admit your hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I answered your post . Your question was about my “ smiley face”   Go back and re read it
> Isn’t that much difference between a “ smiley face” and admitting you don’t give a SHIT even when NON ISRAELIS get killed in Antisemitic Hate crimes
> 
> Your post isn’t about my “ slightly off topic” comment but it’s still a Valid point. Why can’t you answer it?
Click to expand...

Please try to keep up.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian MP Khalida Jarrar was released from an Israeli prison where she was held for almost two years without charge or trial. Her case is not unique! it's crucial to remember it is the norm for Israel to detain Palestinians for indefinite periods without being charged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny x *2*
> Kondor3 ILOVEISRAEL
> 
> What is funny about throwing people in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> That is so 3rd world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You’re not giving a SHIT about Israeli or Jewish ( Non Israeli) Human life. You said so yourself
> 
> Slightly off topic, but your own You Tube Videos clarify the Palestinians have no intention of living in “ peace”   Try to be honest and admit your hypocrisy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this have to do with my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I answered your post . Your question was about my “ smiley face”   Go back and re read it
> Isn’t that much difference between a “ smiley face” and admitting you don’t give a SHIT even when NON ISRAELIS get killed in Antisemitic Hate crimes
> 
> Your post isn’t about my “ slightly off topic” comment but it’s still a Valid point. Why can’t you answer it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please try to keep up.
Click to expand...


You also; Your usual deflection


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Photo of Brazil’s new president Jair Bolsonaro’s two sons wearing IDF and Mossad shirts. "Israel has become a symbol for authoritarianism around the world"


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



That’s right...,  Have us believe that a “ Israeli Military Assassination Squad” entered Gaza; randomly kills 6 Palestinians for sport; then goes back into Israel
   If during those “ peaceful protests” they managed to break into Israel and kill or if they got into Israel through any Underground tunnels and killed you would be celebrating 
     Keep on posting with your usual hypocrisy , lies and desperation


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



She should tell the U.N. That the JEWISH NATION has no right to exist. Let’s see how far she gets with that.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


>


Uhhh Palestinians HAVE snuck into Israel and killed Israelis. Many times. That’s why they are in the situation they are in.


----------



## toastman

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s right...,  Have us believe that a “ Israeli Military Assassination Squad” entered Gaza; randomly kills 6 Palestinians for sport; then goes back into Israel
> If during those “ peaceful protests” they managed to break into Israel and kill or if they got into Israel through any Underground tunnels and killed you would be celebrating
> Keep on posting with your usual hypocrisy , lies and desperation
Click to expand...

I’ve seen and read a lot of Palestinian Propaganda, but Tinmore takes it to a new level .


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh Palestinians HAVE snuck into Israel and killed Israelis. Many times. That’s why they are in the situation they are in.
Click to expand...


Tinmore has made it very clear that he does not care about Israeli deaths or Jews being killed in Antisemitic attacks yet we are to have “ moral values” ( his words) caring about the Palestinians?
  If a entire Jewish Family like the Fogel Family were killed and nearly beheaded he wouldn’t give a S..T. That’s exactly how I feel about the Palestinians.


----------



## Kondor3

toastman said:


> ...I’ve seen and read a lot of Palestinian Propaganda, but Tinmore takes it to a new level .


His major malfunction seems to be Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder; chronic; severe.

That, or he's a little more 'vested' in Palestinian outcomes than "he" is letting-on. 

That's OK... nobody but fellow Palis and a handful of Islamo-Fascist arse-kissers take him seriously anyway.

None of which gets Palestinians even one hair's width closer to their goals.

As a matter of fact, "*pathological propagandizing*" is a sure-fire way to shrink your audience.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh Palestinians HAVE snuck into Israel and killed Israelis. Many times. That’s why they are in the situation they are in.
Click to expand...

Links?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*West Bank Footage: Banksy's The Walled Off Hotel in Bethlehem*

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *West Bank Footage: Banksy's The Walled Off Hotel in Bethlehem*
> 
> **



No link.,,,,,  What else is new?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

PA rewards teaching that "Palestine" erases all of Israel | PMW Analysis


   Yea, I believe in the " Two State Solution"  The above is just one of the many reasons it will never happen

  " Live in Peace with your Neighbors"


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib addessing in Chicago*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



PM OLMERT ordered a “ severe response” after Palestinians shot Rockets into Israel and Tinmore objects to that????
  Olmert was PM from 2006 to 2009 !!!!  I’m case you “ forgot “ it’s 2020. !!


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PM OLMERT ordered a “ severe response” after Palestinians shot Rockets into Israel and Tinmore objects to that????
> Olmert was PM from 2006 to 2009 !!!!  I’m case you “ forgot “ it’s 2020. !!
Click to expand...

You missed the point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Local Opinion: Palestinian rights are not anti-Jewish *

As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.

*Local Opinion: Palestinian rights are not anti-Jewish*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*TELLING THEIR STORY – 50 PALESTINIAN WOMEN LET THEIR ART DO THE TALKING AT PALESTINE MUSEUM US*

*



*

Since its opening two years ago, the Palestine Museum US, in Woodbridge, Connecticut, just outside New Haven, has given ample space to women artists. The prominent artist Samia Halaby, for example, has supported this remarkable institution from the beginning with loans of her paintings, and an exhibition of her searing drawings of the Kafir Qasim massacre is planned.

Halaby’s large abstract paintings will be shown along with paintings, drawings, sculptures and textiles from 49 other female Palestinian artists from the Palestinian homeland and far flung places in the Diaspora from five continents in a massive exhibition of more than 150 works. “Telling the Palestinian Story,” which opens on March 8, will be the first curated exhibition the museum has mounted, and it is an opportunity to interrogate directly the very concepts of Palestinian identity that the museum was formed to express.

The works in the exhibition range widely in subject and style. Halaby’s abstract works represent one pole. Coming upon her works, and the figural, expressionist works of a Reem Natsheh, of Hebron, one might not immediately take them for Palestinian paintings. Highly skilled and engrossing, both represent the goals of the founding director of the museum, Faisal Saleh, to show that Palestinians are “like anyone else.” That is, like any community, they have capable artists interested in universal human problems and interests and can use their art to investigate the limits and the possibilities of color, line, and composition as well or better than any other artist. Saleh wants to impress on a skeptical world the fact, which should be obvious to everyone, that Palestinians are human, and that, as a corollary, that they deserve human rights.

https://artscopemagazine.com/2020/0...UKuNAxmcU018YRQ1_iWyydFzrHr4drN0pNMJL_ltIhn9M


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amazon is responding to Palestinian pressure*

Ramallah 4-3-2020 wafa - the ministry of communications and information technology said that e-Commerce Company (Amazon) treated the beneficiaries of its services in the state of Palestine with the same policy as the direction of the occupation state and is now offering free shipping after a series of Palestinian actions to stop ignoring Palestinian identity

Details on the following link:
http://wafa.ps/ar_page.aspx?id=F2FdWZa871403156481aF2FdWZ


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Athletes Take a Knee Against Israel’s Occupation*
Two volleyball players at Brooklyn College are facing a torrent of abuse for protesting during the Israeli national anthem.






In August of 2016, quarterback Colin Kaepernick began his NFL season by kneeling during the national anthem in protest of racism and state violence.

In the tradition—and the extension—of this movement,
two volleyball players from Brooklyn College
went to one knee before a game this week against Yeshiva University. During the playing of Israel’s national anthem, which Yeshiva plays before every contest, they kneeled as a protest against Israel’s racism and state violence, most pointedly against the country’s apartheid policies of occupation that keep the 2 million Palestinians of Gaza in an open-air prison surrounded by checkpoints and walls. They weren’t just going to stand for Israel’s anthem, hand over hearts, and do nothing.

The two athletes, Hunnan Butt and Omar Rezika, were immediately slandered as anti-Semites because of their simple, silent gesture of dissent.

Athletes Take a Knee Against Israel’s Occupation


----------



## P F Tinmore

"It's so nice to feel connected with people around the world while we struggle against the Israeli siege. Your commitment to the Palestinian cause is what helps keep us going. Especially during the last wars on Gaza, your solidarity has been needed. Please keep it up! Visit our website and share our stories widely!" - A message from our writer, Riwaa Abu-Quta, on the International Day of Solidarity With The Palestinian People.






We Are Not Numbers


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

People get old, but love does not. It gets deeper, and stronger than ever. This photo was taken in Khan Younis, #Gaza, #Palestine as this simple couple teaches love in its simplest ways.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Help Us: Our Message is Stronger with You*

*



*
*A Palestinian woman holds an olive tree in the West Bank village of Qalandiya. (Photo: Anne Paq, ActiveStills)*

The Palestine Chronicle is not just a website. We are more than that, much more.

Sure, The Palestine Chronicle English platform has been in existence for 20 years. We launched the first page in September 1999.

And our French sister-website joined us a few years ago, amplifying our message to French-speaking audiences around the world.

The Palestine Chronicle at 20: Our Message Stronger than Ever


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.

Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.



It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.

•  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​


P F Tinmore said:


> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.


*(COMMENT)*

In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.

The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten? 

*(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*

Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich. In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.


Load of hooey.


----------



## toastman

Sorry Tinmore, not falling for your propaganda. You can keep trying though :


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, I see it as a strategy right out of the late-1930s Playbook.


P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey.


*(COMMENT)*

But what I don't understand is why the world does not see that this is exactly why we need to have a Jewish State.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...


OK, here is one of many.

Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.

Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?

Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
Click to expand...

And? Israel is a legit country, Palestine isn’t


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, this one is pretty easy.



RoccoR said:


> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...





P F Tinmore said:


> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh, this is another broad accusation.  The details in the Recommendation of A/RES/181(II) could not have possibly been carried-out in total in less than 24 Hours, when the Arab League began to poor in.  The Arab League changed the application of the Resolution, not the Israelis.



P F Tinmore said:


> According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.


*(COMMENT)*

The status of the City of Jerusalem was overtaken by the Armistice Agreement between the Israelis and the Jordanians.  And the Armistice was overtaken in 1950 when Jordan _(with a Palestinian Parliament)_ unilaterally annexed the territories.



P F Tinmore said:


> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?


*(COMMENT)*

No, and the Israelis never claimed that.  On 31 July 1988, the Jordanians abandon the territories under Jordanian authority, leaving it in the hands of the only remaining government capable authority _(the Israelis)_.  The Palestinian Liberation Authority (PLO) had not declared independence yet.



P F Tinmore said:


> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is the difference between the ground truth _(for an extended period of time)_ and the legal fallacy that the PLO/Palestinian Authority grasp.  The only international treaty that is in force the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) basically says that _(without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967)_ the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited concerning the boundary definition under the Mandate _(Article 3)_. "This line is the administrative boundary between Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”  What does, the "military status" mean?  Well, the question is mute.  Any territory west of the Jordan River is under civil administration_ (for almost 40 years)_, not military administration.  (_IDF Military Order No. 947_*)*
_"We hereby establish a Civil Administration in the region [West Bank and Gaza]. The Civil Administration shall run all regional civil matters, correspondingly to this [Military] decree, for the wellbeing and for the sake of [local] population, and with the purpose of providing and operating the public services, considering the need to maintain a proper governance and public order"._
​The worst-case scenario is that the boundary is no more - or - no less valid than any other boundary.  But the other questions: 

◈  Under what principle do the Arab Palestinians have on the meaning of a Treaty between the Israelis and the Jordanians?

◈   When did the Arab Palestinians raise any Dispute Resplutions concerns over these issues?​The United Nations (UN) attempted to declare the city a _corpus separatum_ (Latin: “separate entity”).

◈  When did A/RES/181/ (II) 29 November 1947 go into force as an International Law?

◈  When did A/RES/194 (III)  11 December 1948 go into force as an International Law?​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
Click to expand...



That's incorrect.

Israel's Declaration of Independence cites UN's confirmation of the collective historic rights of the Jewish nation, and the obligation to re-constitute the Jewish state in Eretz Israel - specifically declaring obligation to _*"economic unity all over Eretz Israel in its entirety"*_ while addressing all inhabitants to join as equal citizens.

Because anyway the UN had no legal standing to enforce any borders let alone administer land,
Res. 181, which is not international law, called for the inhabitants themselves to take the required steps for the implementation of actual binding international law that was reaffirmed in the resolution,
which Israel did.

All that was outside that scope in the resolution was neither binding nor legally enforceable, and because the Jewish nation was already vested with sovereignty of the country, all decisions regarding administration of Jerusalem or any land allotted for the nation in international law is function of Israel's decision, to that Israel did not oblige.

And the Declaration of Independence, just above the reference to the resolution, lists the international laws that were already in force prior to that as its legal foundation.


(In conclusion)

Even if for the first time the resolution suggested an Arab state, or separately administered Jerusalem,
*it wasn't binding*, and entirely bound by Israel's sole sovereign decision on what and how to implement.

The attempt to obfuscate 181 as law, is cheap propaganda.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this one is pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, this is another broad accusation.  The details in the Recommendation of A/RES/181(II) could not have possibly been carried-out in total in less than 24 Hours, when the Arab League began to poor in.  The Arab League changed the application of the Resolution, not the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The status of the City of Jerusalem was overtaken by the Armistice Agreement between the Israelis and the Jordanians.  And the Armistice was overtaken in 1950 when Jordan _(with a Palestinian Parliament)_ unilaterally annexed the territories.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, and the Israelis never claimed that.  On 31 July 1988, the Jordanians abandon the territories under Jordanian authority, leaving it in the hands of the only remaining government capable authority _(the Israelis)_.  The Palestinian Liberation Authority (PLO) had not declared independence yet.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is the difference between the ground truth _(for an extended period of time)_ and the legal fallacy that the PLO/Palestinian Authority grasp.  The only international treaty that is in force the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) basically says that _(without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967)_ the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited concerning the boundary definition under the Mandate _(Article 3)_. "This line is the administrative boundary between Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”  What does, the "military status" mean?  Well, the question is mute.  Any territory west of the Jordan River is under civil administration_ (for almost 40 years)_, not military administration.  (_IDF Military Order No. 947_*)*
> _"We hereby establish a Civil Administration in the region [West Bank and Gaza]. The Civil Administration shall run all regional civil matters, correspondingly to this [Military] decree, for the wellbeing and for the sake of [local] population, and with the purpose of providing and operating the public services, considering the need to maintain a proper governance and public order"._
> ​The worst-case scenario is that the boundary is no more - or - no less valid than any other boundary.  But the other questions:
> 
> ◈  Under what principle do the Arab Palestinians have on the meaning of a Treaty between the Israelis and the Jordanians?
> 
> ◈   When did the Arab Palestinians raise any Dispute Resplutions concerns over these issues?​The United Nations (UN) attempted to declare the city a _corpus separatum_ (Latin: “separate entity”).
> 
> ◈  When did A/RES/181/ (II) 29 November 1947 go into force as an International Law?
> 
> ◈  When did A/RES/194 (III)  11 December 1948 go into force as an International Law?​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Oh, this is another broad accusation. The details in the Recommendation of A/RES/181(II) could not have possibly been carried-out in total in less than 24 Hours, when the Arab League began to poor in. The Arab League changed the application of the Resolution, not the Israelis.


More Israeli lies.

Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Well, this one is pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh, this is another broad accusation.  The details in the Recommendation of A/RES/181(II) could not have possibly been carried-out in total in less than 24 Hours, when the Arab League began to poor in.  The Arab League changed the application of the Resolution, not the Israelis.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The status of the City of Jerusalem was overtaken by the Armistice Agreement between the Israelis and the Jordanians.  And the Armistice was overtaken in 1950 when Jordan _(with a Palestinian Parliament)_ unilaterally annexed the territories.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No, and the Israelis never claimed that.  On 31 July 1988, the Jordanians abandon the territories under Jordanian authority, leaving it in the hands of the only remaining government capable authority _(the Israelis)_.  The Palestinian Liberation Authority (PLO) had not declared independence yet.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that is the difference between the ground truth _(for an extended period of time)_ and the legal fallacy that the PLO/Palestinian Authority grasp.  The only international treaty that is in force the Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) basically says that _(without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967)_ the international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited concerning the boundary definition under the Mandate _(Article 3)_. "This line is the administrative boundary between Jordan and the territory which came under Israeli military government control in 1967. Any treatment of this line shall be without prejudice to the status of that territory.”  What does, the "military status" mean?  Well, the question is mute.  Any territory west of the Jordan River is under civil administration_ (for almost 40 years)_, not military administration.  (_IDF Military Order No. 947_*)*
> _"We hereby establish a Civil Administration in the region [West Bank and Gaza]. The Civil Administration shall run all regional civil matters, correspondingly to this [Military] decree, for the wellbeing and for the sake of [local] population, and with the purpose of providing and operating the public services, considering the need to maintain a proper governance and public order"._
> ​The worst-case scenario is that the boundary is no more - or - no less valid than any other boundary.  But the other questions:
> 
> ◈  Under what principle do the Arab Palestinians have on the meaning of a Treaty between the Israelis and the Jordanians?
> 
> ◈   When did the Arab Palestinians raise any Dispute Resplutions concerns over these issues?​The United Nations (UN) attempted to declare the city a _corpus separatum_ (Latin: “separate entity”).
> 
> ◈  When did A/RES/181/ (II) 29 November 1947 go into force as an International Law?
> 
> ◈  When did A/RES/194 (III)  11 December 1948 go into force as an International Law?​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, this is another broad accusation. The details in the Recommendation of A/RES/181(II) could not have possibly been carried-out in total in less than 24 Hours, when the Arab League began to poor in. The Arab League changed the application of the Resolution, not the Israelis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
Click to expand...

More Palestinian lies.. link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,

This is too funny.


			
				Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
			
		

> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​





P F Tinmore said:


> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.

When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.

※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




•

※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
Click to expand...


Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
  By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
   Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?


  To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your     

Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

1948-1967: Jordanian Occupation of Eastern Jerusalem

" International Law" at it's best


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,
> 
> This is too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.
> 
> When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.
> 
> ※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •
> 
> ※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
> The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.

All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best

 Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?

Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “


----------



## RoccoR

]RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Wrong on BOTH counts...

◈  Israel "hinged" (your word) on "self-determination" and NOT A/RES/181 (II).

◈  A/RES/181 (II) was considered implemented _(according to the UNPC)_.  _(You make this claim quite often.)_​


P F Tinmore said:


> Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
> 
> 1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
> 2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
> 3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
> 4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.​
> All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Nothing in items 1 through 4 is true in context.

◈   The borders were not established until 14/15 May '48.  They were obviated on the outbreak of hostilities initiated by the Arab League.

◈   Nationalities were not established until 14/15 May '48.  Prior to 14/15 May it was a civil war in which displaced hostiles were relocated.

◈   This third issue cannot be true.  Israel did not exist until 14/15 May, on the day the Arab League militarily intervened.

◈   Who took Jerusalem?  The Arabs Militarily took Jerusalem.  You have this issue all screwed-up.​
The Arab opposing force took what they could and kept what they could.  All this talk about who violated what is merely subterfuge to mask the fact that the Arabs wanted it all and want to expel the Jewish People and prevent the establishment of a Jewish National Home.  They failed.  And all the whining since then has been about the Arab Failure to control the Mandate Territory and not about anything more.  A direct line can be drawn from each and every Arab Palestinian complaint and the Arab League failures that lead to the outcomes they live with today.

All the political rhetoric used by the Arab Opposing Forces today is irrelevant.  The goals and objectives which the Arab Palestinians whine about today are the same as they whined about in _discussions with the __Secretary of State for the Colonies_ _(Right Honorable Sir Winston Churchill)_ well before the issuance of the Palestine Order in Council and the formalized Mandate for Palestine in 1922.

Everything added since that time has been window dressing to disguise the long string of failed political and quasi-military efforts taken by an inept Arab Leadership that was attempting to assume control over territory in which the future of the territory (Palestine) being settled or to be settled by the Allied Powers concerned had been placed.  Let me emphasize this point:  The arguments being presented in contemporary times are an outcome of a long and continuous string of Arab Leadership failures.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best


You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ The borders were not established until 14/15 May '48. They were obviated on the outbreak of hostilities initiated by the Arab League.


What was Israel's defined territory in 1948?

Do you have a 1948 map of Israel?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,
> 
> This is too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.
> 
> When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.
> 
> ※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •
> 
> ※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
> The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
> 1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
> 2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
> 3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
> 4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.
> 
> All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.
Click to expand...



   You're correct; Resolution 181 was NEVER implemented.  I wonder why ?    

https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/1947 UN Partition Plan.aspx


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
Click to expand...



  That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
    Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
  YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, you are trying to use a "map" _(or lack of a "map")_ as some sort of evidence to reality.  The Middle East has been evolving since the rise of man established the designation of the Middle East.  And it has been changing ever since.  The country _(any country)_ burst into existence before the map of the existence is made.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The borders were not established until 14/15 May '48. They were obviated on the outbreak of hostilities initiated by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> What was Israel's defined territory in 1948?
> 
> Do you have a 1948 map of Israel?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

In 1948, there was a war that changed the intended design for country boundaries into the layout we have today.  And that layout is not yet finished.  

It is absolutely foolish for you to base today's sovereign demarcations on the lack of a Map being made in the middle of a war.  That is just invalid and unsound logic.

Today, the map is made based on the actual enforced sovereign boundary.  When you run into a location when the sovereignty changes from one authority to another authority, we call that point a demarcation.  And the Arab Palestinians whines and complains about those demarcations all the time.  Whether or not a map is made of the Security Barrier between sovereign Israel and the West Bank, does not matter.  Either there is a point at which the Israelis enforce their sovereign authority, or there is not.  The same is true for the barrier that distinguishes Israel from the Gaza Strip.  

Don't contaminate your logic with some false prerequisites.   Ask yourself:  

◈  How is it that the Arab Palestinian can explain their claim of "forced relocation?"   
◈  Relocation from where to where?
◈  The "Right of Return" to where?  
◈  Return to what?  
◈  What if I argue that they are already returned?  
◈  How would you disprove that?​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

US Moving Forward on Israeli Sovereignty; Palestinians ‘to Blame’ if They Refuse to Negotiate, Kushner Says


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PM OLMERT ordered a “ severe response” after Palestinians shot Rockets into Israel and Tinmore objects to that????
> Olmert was PM from 2006 to 2009 !!!!  I’m case you “ forgot “ it’s 2020. !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You missed the point.
Click to expand...



   This is YOUR post.  Please tell us why she complains about the " severe response" after the Palestinians shot Rockets into Israel and what would be the " proportionate"  ( lol) response?

    Please tell us why right after Israel left Gaza Rocket fire increased immediately after Israel left Gaza .  Does THAT have any reason to what is going on today?  Of course not   


Indiscriminate Fire | Palestinian Rocket Attacks on Israel and Israeli Artillery Shelling in the Gaza Strip


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
Click to expand...


  In one of my other posts he states he are talking about " Palestine" not Jordan.   If Jerusalem is declared to be a International City by the U.N. as he states  by what Right does the PLO have the right to deny Jewish entry, deprive them of Religious sites and build their Capital there?   There will STILL be NO response


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> Palestinian Rights Advocacy (PRA) is _(self-determination)_ just nothing more than code for revoking Israeli Rights_ (for self-determination)_.  The very rights that PRA demands are the exact same rights the Israelis have.
> 
> Europe Poised to Put Warning Labels on Jewish-Made Products
> The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BSD) Movement is a resurgents of the anti-Jewish Laws of Germany's Third Reich.   In 1933, Germany ushered-in a Boycott of Jew Businesses, Shops, and Stores.  The Star of David was required to be pasted on business fronts and the prominent marking of “Jude” was painted shop display windows, entryways and storefronts → warning patrons of the anti-Jewish policy.
> View attachment 310443​It is not so dissimilar as to what is happening in contemporary times.
> 
> •  The European Union is poised to mandate that Israeli products made in contested territories carry consumer warning labels, a decision that could trigger American anti-boycott laws and open up what legal experts describe as a “Pandora’s box” of litigation, according to multiple sources involved in the legal dispute who spoke to the _Washington Free Beacon_.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Tucson Jews who support Palestinian human rights, we are deeply troubled by state Sen. Karen Fann and state Rep. Alma Hernandez’s recent op-ed in the Arizona Daily Star that accuses the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, or BDS, movement of “encouraging anti-Jewish bigotry.” Hernandez and Fann are right that anti-Semitism is a serious issue that is on the rise in the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world. But we disagree with the way they confuse Palestinian rights advocacy with anti-Semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In Germany, the Law caused the cancellation of state and government contracts held by Jewish-owned businesses.  And by 1938, the Laws and Boycotts finally required the closure of all Jewish-owned firms.
> 
> The Modern-day similarity, "The EU Court of Justice’s and the Advocate General's opinion said that goods produced by Muslims are to be labeled from* ‘Palestine,'* and goods produced by Jews labeled as coming from *‘Israeli colonies**.’*
> The question becomes, is the BSD Movementjust another application of the “anti-Jewish bigotry” we have seen before, but have forgotten?
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer.  So, I challenge you:  Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you.  We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(ON The Matter of Israel’s violations of international law)*
> 
> Well, that is so broad an accusation, that I'll be accused of a "Data Dump" if I answer. So, I challenge you: Pick a specific law that you believe that the US complicit in Israel’s violations of international law, and I'll debate it with you. We can go through them one at a time...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In one of my other posts he states he are talking about " Palestine" not Jordan.   If Jerusalem is declared to be a International City by the U.N. as he states  by what Right does the PLO have the right to deny Jewish entry, deprive them of Religious sites and build their Capital there?   There will STILL be NO response
Click to expand...


Hi RoccoR

 I THINK you meant ( I hope) funny and agree.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, you are trying to use a "map" _(or lack of a "map")_ as some sort of evidence to reality.  The Middle East has been evolving since the rise of man established the designation of the Middle East.  And it has been changing ever since.  The country _(any country)_ burst into existence before the map of the existence is made.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ The borders were not established until 14/15 May '48. They were obviated on the outbreak of hostilities initiated by the Arab League.
> 
> 
> 
> What was Israel's defined territory in 1948?
> 
> Do you have a 1948 map of Israel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> In 1948, there was a war that changed the intended design for country boundaries into the layout we have today.  And that layout is not yet finished.
> 
> It is absolutely foolish for you to base today's sovereign demarcations on the lack of a Map being made in the middle of a war.  That is just invalid and unsound logic.
> 
> Today, the map is made based on the actual enforced sovereign boundary.  When you run into a location when the sovereignty changes from one authority to another authority, we call that point a demarcation.  And the Arab Palestinians whines and complains about those demarcations all the time.  Whether or not a map is made of the Security Barrier between sovereign Israel and the West Bank, does not matter.  Either there is a point at which the Israelis enforce their sovereign authority, or there is not.  The same is true for the barrier that distinguishes Israel from the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Don't contaminate your logic with some false prerequisites.   Ask yourself:
> 
> ◈  How is it that the Arab Palestinian can explain their claim of "forced relocation?"
> ◈  Relocation from where to where?
> ◈  The "Right of Return" to where?
> ◈  Return to what?
> ◈  What if I argue that they are already returned?
> ◈  How would you disprove that?​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Don't quote my post just to deflect.

You have been dancing around my questions for years.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, here is one of many.
> 
> Israel invoked Resolution 181 in its declaration of independence even though it violated virtually every provision in that resolution. According to Resolution 181, Jerusalem was to be an international city administered by the UN.
> 
> Did Israel win Jerusalem from the UN in a defensive war?
> 
> Trump moved the US embassy into territory that is not Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,


The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,
> 
> This is too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.
> 
> When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.
> 
> ※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •
> 
> ※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
> The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
> 1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
> 2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
> 3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
> 4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.
> 
> All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct; Resolution 181 was NEVER implemented.  I wonder why ?
> 
> https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/1947 UN Partition Plan.aspx
Click to expand...

Ahhh, Israel's premier propaganda site.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another stupid remark!!!  Jerusalem was to be a “ International City” administered by the U.N. so by what authority did Jordan have the Right to deny Israelis rights to their sacred religious sites and destroy many of them?
> By what right does the PA have to declare E Jerusalem a no Israelis allowed area; also deny Israeli Rights to their Religious sites and build their capital there?
> Did “ Palestine “ win Jerusalem from the U. N.?  With the FORMAL declaration that Israelis are not entitled to stay where they are or that they have the Right to build their Capital there?
> 
> 
> To all those who SAY they believe in " International Law" ( even though they really don't}  .  Take that "law" and shove it up your
> 
> Cabinet Report Says Jordan Destroyed 56 Old City Synagogues, Desecrated Cemetery - Jewish Telegraphic Agency
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
Click to expand...


Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,
> 
> This is too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.
> 
> When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.
> 
> ※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •
> 
> ※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
> The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
> 1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
> 2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
> 3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
> 4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.
> 
> All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct; Resolution 181 was NEVER implemented.  I wonder why ?
> 
> https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/1947 UN Partition Plan.aspx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's premier propaganda site.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,
> 
> This is too funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Black's Law Dictionary® Ninth Edition said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> violation, n. (I5c)
> 1. An infraction or breach of the law; a transgression. See INFRACTION.
> 2. The act of breaking or dishonoring the law; the contravention of a right or duty.
> 3. Rape; ravishment.
> 4. Under the Model Penal Code, a public-welfare offense .• In this sense, a violation
> is not a crime. See Model Penal Code § 1.04(5). violate,
> vb. violative (vI-a-lay-tiv), adj. - violator, n.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> More Israeli lies.
> 
> Israel was violating provisions of Resolution 181 before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Didn't our friend "rylah" just get done telling you that A/RES/181 (II) is NOT a law.  It is not binding _(as in a duty)_.
> 
> When did Israel become Independent?  Answer:   Midnight 14/15 May 1948.
> 
> ※  05/16/1948   PAL/167 Transjordan army entry into Palestine - Cable from King Abdullah, Press release 1948/05/16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> •
> 
> ※  05/15/1948  S/747 Proclamation of state of Israel - Cablegram to SecGen •​
> The Cable from Jordan was issued in the same 24 hour period as Israel Independence.  You are clearly misrepresenting the facts and disseminating misinformation _(with a deliberately intended to deceive)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel hinged its so called legitimacy on Resolution 181 that was never implemented.
> 1) Israel violated the proposed borders.
> 2) Israel violated nationality by expelling Palestinians who should have been Israeli citizens.
> 3) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the "Arab" part of the plan.
> 4) Israel attacked and expelled Palestinians in the territory of Jerusalem.
> 
> All this and more before any Arab army entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct; Resolution 181 was NEVER implemented.  I wonder why ?
> 
> https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/1947 UN Partition Plan.aspx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahhh, Israel's premier propaganda site.
Click to expand...

 
Please tell us what was false


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
Click to expand...

Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the U. N. Declared under” International Law” that it was to be a  International City and the Jewish people were not to be denied their rights to their religious sites


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the U. N. Declared under” International Law” that it was to be a  International City and the Jewish people were not to be denied their rights to their religious sites
Click to expand...




ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Sorry, but the U. N. Declared under” International Law” that it was to be a International City


So then, why does Israel claim it?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*CBS News Host Schooled On Israel Palestine Reality by Human Rights Lawyer Noura Erakat*

**


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not.  Keep defending their destruction of Jewish  burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Did the U. N. give “ Palestine “ Jerusalem? By what right to they have to build their Capital there; FORBID Israelis to live there and DENY their rights to Religious Sites?
> 
> Pre 67 has nothing to do with “ Palestine?”  As usual your bigotry and hate are showing. They intend to enforce the SAME RESTRICTIONS on the Jewish people which is ALLEGEDLY forbidden by “ International Law “
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection; Your usual double standard. Either “ International Law” is for everybody or it’s not. Keep defending their destruction of Jewish burial grounds and Holy Sites; that’s what you do best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
Click to expand...

Palestine’s international borders??? hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahH !!





hold on à sec






MmHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAA


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the U. N. Declared under” International Law” that it was to be a  International City and the Jewish people were not to be denied their rights to their religious sites
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the U. N. Declared under” International Law” that it was to be a International City
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So then, why does Israel claim it?
Click to expand...


For the same reason Jordan claimed it; threw out all the Jewish people; felt free to destroy Sacred Religious Sites , burial grounds and temples and for the same reason the PLO formally declared No Israelis allowed and Jews would not be permitted access to their Holy Sites.

We all know you see nothing wrong with this.  If it were the other way we would be hearing about " APARTHEID, RACIST ISRAELIS, "etc. etc.  Thank you again for exposing your hypocrisy 

Muslims chant about killing Jews outside Jerusalem’s Temple Mount


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are trying to blame Palestine for what Jordan did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right...… Keep defending with your Pro Palestinian talking points not having ANY regard for " International Law"
> Even though this is the Israeli/ Palestinian Discussion Board I PROMISE the moderators will not ban you for condemning Jordan for what they did ( like I am) but you won't; You're too hypocritical
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel.   I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians, do they have the Right to have their capital there and to BAN Israelis from there FORBIDDING them access to their Holy Sites just like Jordan did and of course you refuse to answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to Israel. I asked if the U.N. gave Jerusalem to the Palestinians,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The UN does not have the authority to "give" Jerusalem to anybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then the Palestinians have no right to claim it; demand all Israelis leave and deny the Jewish people access to their religious sites! Thank you !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Palestine’s international borders??? hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahH !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hold on à sec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MmHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAA
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Good morning from these Palestinian women who, in an unusual scene, started their day by practising yoga on the beach of #Gaza City.

Photos by: Majdi Fathi


----------



## Kondor3

*Look, Ma...*

*East Jerusalem Palestinian-owned real estate...*

*And hookers-in-training...*

*Cheap...*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Yasmin El-Owesy, a Palestinian teacher from #Gaza, brought a camel to her school to teach her students how camels adapt in harsh environments. This step aims to connect what students study at school to real life. It also adds entertainment to the process of education.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What was the question?



P F Tinmore said:


> Don't quote my post just to deflect.
> You have been dancing around my questions for years.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I would like to bring your attention to the *amicus curiae* for No.: ICC-01/18 - Date: 14 February 2020, presented to the International Criminal Court (ICC) by The Honourable Professor Robert Badinter, The Honourable Professor Irwin Cotler, PC, OC, OQ, Professor David Crane, Professor Jean-François Gaudreault-DesBiens, FRSC, Ad.E, Lord David Pannick QC, and Professor Guglielmo Verdirame QC.



P F Tinmore said:


> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.


*(COMMENT)*

Overall Conclusions  11.  The ICC does not have jurisdiction in relation to crimes allegedly committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip (“Gaza”). 

◈  Second, Palestine is not a “State ”for the purposes of Article 12(2)(a) of the ICC Statute merely because of its accession to the Rome Statute.

◈  Third, it would not be appropriate for the ICC to determine whether or not Palestine is a sovereign State as a matter of general international law or whether the conduct in question occurred “on the territory of” Palestine when the parties are engaged in reaching a negotiated solution to statehood and boundaries.

◈  Fourth, Palestine does not meet the criteria for statehood as a matter of general international law. 

◈  Fifth, the Oslo Accords bar the exercise of the Court’s jurisdiction.​
I could cut'n'paste the entirety of the _amicus curiae_ but would allow you to read it for your self.  

In fairness, I did find an opposing view (_amicus curiae_) by Professor John Quigley, Moritz College of Law at the Ohio State University_ (where he is the Presidents' Club Professor of Law)_ for No.: ICC-01/18 Date:  3 March  2020, which I believe that our friend "P F Tinmore" mimics on the view that:  "Palestine statehood began at a specific point in time—1923."  Professor Quigley makes such an argument as an out-rider to the issue.  To be honest, I was quite surprised that someone _(other than P F Tinmore)_ found such value in the theory.  But, in the role of the honest broker _(he says with a smile and grin)_ it is only fair that I mention this.

It will be interesting as to how the court digests the two opposing views.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I would like to bring your attention to the *amicus curiae* for No.: ICC-01/18 - Date: 14 February 2020, presented to the International Criminal Court (ICC) by The Honourable Professor Robert Badinter, The Honourable Professor Irwin Cotler, PC, OC, OQ, Professor David Crane, Professor Jean-François Gaudreault-DesBiens, FRSC, Ad.E, Lord David Pannick QC, and Professor Guglielmo Verdirame QC.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jerusalem is a Palestinian city. It is inside Palestine's international borders. Nobody needs to "give" it to them.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Overall Conclusions  11.  The ICC does not have jurisdiction in relation to crimes allegedly committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip (“Gaza”).
> 
> ◈  Second, Palestine is not a “State ”for the purposes of Article 12(2)(a) of the ICC Statute merely because of its accession to the Rome Statute.
> 
> ◈  Third, it would not be appropriate for the ICC to determine whether or not Palestine is a sovereign State as a matter of general international law or whether the conduct in question occurred “on the territory of” Palestine when the parties are engaged in reaching a negotiated solution to statehood and boundaries.
> 
> ◈  Fourth, Palestine does not meet the criteria for statehood as a matter of general international law.
> 
> ◈  Fifth, the Oslo Accords bar the exercise of the Court’s jurisdiction.​
> I could cut'n'paste the entirety of the _amicus curiae_ but would allow you to read it for your self.
> 
> In fairness, I did find an opposing view (_amicus curiae_) by Professor John Quigley, Moritz College of Law at the Ohio State University_ (where he is the Presidents' Club Professor of Law)_ for No.: ICC-01/18 Date:  3 March  2020, which I believe that our friend "P F Tinmore" mimics on the view that:  "Palestine statehood began at a specific point in time—1923."  Professor Quigley makes such an argument as an out-rider to the issue.  To be honest, I was quite surprised that someone _(other than P F Tinmore)_ found such value in the theory.  But, in the role of the honest broker _(he says with a smile and grin)_ it is only fair that I mention this.
> 
> It will be interesting as to how the court digests the two opposing views.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. A good read. https://www.icc-cpi.int/CourtRecords/CR2020_00794.PDF


RoccoR said:


> In fairness, I did find an opposing view (_amicus curiae_) by Professor John Quigley, Moritz College of Law at the Ohio State University_ (where he is the Presidents' Club Professor of Law)_ for No.: ICC-01/18 Date: 3 March 2020, which I believe that our friend "P F Tinmore" mimics on the view that: "Palestine statehood began at a specific point in time—1923." Professor Quigley makes such an argument as an out-rider to the issue. To be honest, I was quite surprised that someone _(other than P F Tinmore)_ found such value in the theory.


It is interesting to find that Professor John Quigley, and Dr. Susan Akram (Professor of law and active attorney in immigration and refugee cases,) have findings similar to my own. My findings based on my own study of history and international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine's beauty attracts tourists from all over the world. Wady El-Feran in Jericho, The West Bank is one of the best spots in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Around 5,000 factories in the #Gaza Strip were closed down and thousands of workers, engineers, accountants and technicians lost their jobs due to the 14-year-long Israeli siege.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Though it is not very common here in Gaza, girls nowadays are trying to change the traditional stereotype of women and engage more in society. This photo is from a basketball training for girls in Gaza city.


----------



## P F Tinmore

This lovely couple from Khanyounis City, southern the Gaza Strip celebrated Valentine's Day yesterday in their own way and prove that true love never dies.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*White Liberals and Colonialism: Interview with Haidar Eid *

**


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>




   According to Tinmore this is Not Anti Semitism





Anti-Semitic attacks spike, killing most Jews in decades


  Neither is this.  When challenged about the above or what is going on in Europe ( Not Israelis) his response is ;  I don't care.  When challenged he states he can't do a thing about it.
 When I then ask about why I should then care about the Palestinians since I can't do anything about his is response is " moral values"    Shouldn't that work BOTH ways?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> This lovely couple from Khanyounis City, southern the Gaza Strip celebrated Valentine's Day yesterday in their own way and prove that true love never dies.







OOPS..... Forgot....  These aren't the " Real Jews"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Around 5,000 factories in the #Gaza Strip were closed down and thousands of workers, engineers, accountants and technicians lost their jobs due to the 14-year-long Israeli siege.


 
Link? Of course not


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Of course, the Arab Palestinians are the only "guilt-free" insurgency and jihadist movement in the entire world. With them, it is always someone elses fault.



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Around 5,000 factories in the #Gaza Strip were closed down and thousands of workers, engineers, accountants and technicians lost their jobs due to the 14-year-long Israeli siege.
> 
> 
> 
> Link? Of course not
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have not been under a "14 year-long siege."  They have been engaged in a half-century-long effort of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence solely intended to harm the Israeli Power.  A direct violation of Article 68 GCIV.   





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a bit, to a very large extent, an economy of "truth" when it comes to Arab Palestinian commentary.  Even when they tell the truth, it does not come across as truthful or reliable information.  They simply cannot be trusted to convey any honest commentary.  They cannot be relied upon to exercise any standard of integrity.  They are desperate to present any Israeli perspective as unfounded, irresponsible, unethical and totally imprudent.



P F Tinmore said:


> • Funny x 1


*(COMMENT)*

How many countries, in the European Union (EU) of ≈ 44 nations or in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region encompassing ≈ 22 countries, - and - the overall Mediterranean Community, → view the various Arab Palestinian agencies and organizations as Criminal Activities with the intention of → intimidating a population, forcing them to compel their government in furthering hostile objectives?

Examples:  _(Does anyone really think that these organizations/activities a benevolent in nature?)_

◈  Al-Aqsa e.V.
◈  Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade
◈  Hamas
◈  Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem
◈  Palestinian Islamic Jihad’ – ‘PIJ
◈  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine’ – ‘PFLP
◈  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

A beautiful act of solidarity. Anti-occupation activists brought 174 school backpacks to Israel's Supreme Court to symbolize the 174 children who would lose their school if the Israeli army destroys the Palestinian Bedouin village Khan Al-Ahmar.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

From Gaza with love ❤️ 
Walid Mahmoud photo by @Sanad_latefa_photographer (Instagram)


----------



## P F Tinmore

Ahed Tamimi poses with a thank you to the Italian artists expelled by Israel for making this beautiful art.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> A beautiful act of solidarity. Anti-occupation activists brought 174 school backpacks to Israel's Supreme Court to symbolize the 174 children who would lose their school if the Israeli army destroys the Palestinian Bedouin village Khan Al-Ahmar.



A lie, of course.  

The message is that 174 Israeli citizens will be unable to access a school system and education.  Its simply not true.  They will just be going to a different school.  

Again, if your cause is so just, why do you feel compelled to lie about it?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>




Being a combat medic carries risk.  This particular combat medic died as a result of unintentional shrapnel.

Again, if your cause is so just, why do you feel the need to lie?


----------



## P F Tinmore

This is the 4 month old Palestinian baby, massacred along with her mum and dad, bombed by Israeli warplanes.






Days of Palestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

We hope history books will later mention it in a way that shows its real face, proving it is actually the "Steal of The Century."


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> This is the 4 month old Palestinian baby, massacred along with her mum and dad, bombed by Israeli warplanes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Days of Palestine



To quote you” I don’t go there; it’s not my thing”


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> We hope history books will later mention it in a way that shows its real face, proving it is actually the "Steal of The Century."



Yes; it is Apartheid. Israel being entirely erased from the map  which actually legitimizes  my You Tube Video on 1496 I believe ; Literally forcing Israelis to leave the entire Region ; leaving “ Palestine “ a Country that will not tolerate any Jewish people living there. Thank You !!


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



In a War the Arabs initiated.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another one of those "fake" claimants as a displaced person.
​


P F Tinmore said:


> ​


*(INFORMATION)*

Susan Abulhawa
Political Activist _(Anti-Israeli - Advocate for Hostile Arab Palestinians)_

DPOB: 03 Jun 1970 · Kuwait
​
*(COMMENT)*

When is the misrepresentation of the facts, considered FRAUD?



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is another one of those "fake" claimants as a displaced person.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 311014​
> 
> 
> 
> *(INFORMATION)*
> 
> Susan Abulhawa
> Political Activist _(Anti-Israeli - Advocate for Hostile Arab Palestinians)_
> 
> DPOB: 03 Jun 1970 · Kuwait
> View attachment 311017​
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When is the misrepresentation of the facts, considered FRAUD?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What fraud?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?



P F Tinmore said:


> What fraud?


*(ANSWER)*

She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues. I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)

Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.

Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.

You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, as I have said before, we do not even think along the same level.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues.


*(COMMENT)*

Oh hell no!  If I am grasping for something, I am grasping for the legal aspect you are applying.



P F Tinmore said:


> I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)


*(COMMENT)*

OK, one more time.  What has the term "occupation" meant over the last 100 years (plus)?



			
				Article 42 • Hague Regulation of 1907 said:
			
		

> Territory is considered *occupied* when it is *actually placed under the authority of the hostile army*.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.



Israel regulating the boundary-crossing _(from Israel into Gaza and from Gaza into Israel)_ is a matter of domestic law.



			
				Article 2§7 UN Charter said:
			
		

> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.






P F Tinmore said:


> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.


*(COMMENT)*

I did not say anything about "land ownership."  The theme comes from the international that was adopted.



			
				Article 12 •[SIZE=4] International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights[/SIZE] (CCPR) said:
			
		

> *• A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 •*
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> 2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> 3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> 4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.


What America may or may not grant (by domestic law) does not set the international standard.


P F Tinmore said:


> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.


*(COMMENT)*

What America may or may not grant in terms of citizenship _(as a matter of domestic law)_ does not set the international standard.  Nor does it prevent the application of the standard.



P F Tinmore said:


> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, I am not aware of any Israeli talking points along these lines.  If you could show them to me, I would appreciate it.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> OK, one more time. What has the term "occupation" meant over the last 100 years (plus)?


My interpretation would be under the boot of a foreign power.

And yours?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yes, as I have said before, we do not even think along the same level.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Oh hell no!  If I am grasping for something, I am grasping for the legal aspect you are applying.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OK, one more time.  What has the term "occupation" meant over the last 100 years (plus)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 42 • Hague Regulation of 1907 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Territory is considered *occupied* when it is *actually placed under the authority of the hostile army*.
> The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel regulating the boundary-crossing _(from Israel into Gaza and from Gaza into Israel)_ is a matter of domestic law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 2§7 UN Charter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing contained in the *present Charter* shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I did not say anything about "land ownership."  The theme comes from the international that was adopted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 12 •[SIZE=4] International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights[/SIZE] (CCPR) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *• A/RES/2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966 •*
> 1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence.
> 
> 2. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.
> 
> 3. The above-mentioned rights shall not be subject to any restrictions except those which are provided by law, are necessary to protect national security, public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others, and are consistent with the other rights recognized in the present Covenant.
> 
> 4. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What America may or may not grant (by domestic law) does not set the international standard.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What America may or may not grant in terms of citizenship _(as a matter of domestic law)_ does not set the international standard.  Nor does it prevent the application of the standard.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, I am not aware of any Israeli talking points along these lines.  If you could show them to me, I would appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Again, I am not aware of any Israeli talking points along these lines.


Of course not. They are part of your everyday language, You say them without thought.

However, the Palestinians cringe when you say them.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues. I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)
> 
> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.
> 
> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.
> 
> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.
Click to expand...

How bout this for grasping at straws Tinmore: Right of return will NEVER HAPPEN ....
Now how about dem apples ??


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues. I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)
> 
> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.
> 
> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.
> 
> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How bout this for grasping at straws Tinmore: Right of return will NEVER HAPPEN ....
> Now how about dem apples ??
Click to expand...


He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. Ever see one of his infamous You Tube Videos where HASIDIC Jews and Hamas are dancing because they BOTH agreed Israel doesn’t have the Right to Exist? 
  Before posting ; does it Honestly make sense that the most religious sector of the Jewish faith would object to a Jewish State and if they did what’s the reason? 
 He’s too stupid and full of bigotry and hate to even consider asking the question


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues. I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)
> 
> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.
> 
> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.
> 
> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How bout this for grasping at straws Tinmore: Right of return will NEVER HAPPEN ....
> Now how about dem apples ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. Ever see one of his infamous You Tube Videos where HASIDIC Jews and Hamas are dancing because they BOTH agreed Israel doesn’t have the Right to Exist?
> Before posting ; does it Honestly make sense that the most religious sector of the Jewish faith would object to a Jewish State and if they did what’s the reason?
> He’s too stupid and full of bigotry and hate to even consider asking the question
Click to expand...


Ahi,
I don't understand how You think constantly bringing up the 4 "Hassidic Jews" who beside meeting with Hamas, Ahmadinijad and some ridiculous media stunts in a district hearing, for years have remained irrelevant even for the media, as if they were actually representing Hassidic Judaism, let alone how it serves Your love for Israel.

I don't expect any integrity from P F Tinmore, he's a pathological liar and a traitor of his nation.
But whenever You repeat that libel, even if You think ridicules it, in effect further serves his racist bigotry.

Let me clarify something - I've studied in a Hassidic Yeshivah, and unlike me, my uncle attended there 2 additional years to study electronics for the IDF service, and went from there straight to Nahal Haredi.

The Yeshivah was in an old hotel building, and when empty during the summer, Rabbi Grossman shlit"a would accommodate entire companies (military units of 150-300 soldiers) there at a time, feed them, invite musicians, and scribes so that every soldier actually participates in writing and owns a letter in a Torah scroll.

Let me tell You another thing - the first Zionists were Hassidim and students of the Hagra, they built the first villages that later became among the largest central cities in Israel...take Petah Tikvah as just one example. The first chief Rabbi of Israel, was from one of the main Hassidic dynasties in the world today.

I know this may sound ridiculous in light of all the prevalent disinformation, but Hassidim are more hardcore Zionists than Begin and Netanyahu combined. You think they'd allow anyone even dare utter words like "border negotiations" or assume any compromises on Eretz Yisrael when they become majority in the Knesset?

You know how many hours Breslevers spend on the ground during war, driving from unit to unit just to uplift their spirit?

It's getting too long, and I haven't even touched the surface, but I'll finish with just 3 additional facts:
those folk You constantly bring up to the conversation - were discommunicated even by the most fierce radically critical of the Zionism, all the Hassidic courts, no exception - they were decreed DIN RODEF,
for joining the worst enemies of the Jewish people as a whole (doesn't matter Zionist or not) who openly declare their intentions to murder Jews en mass.  Basically they were decreed a death sentence, that is only prevented because the Sanhedrin, more than 2 millenia ago abandoned any such measures.
Even the Hassidic court to which they previously belonged, from which their group emerged excommunicated them. And Rabbi Teitelboim, the author of the central theological work against Zionism, his grandson visited just recently, got a king's accommodation in Israel, private train and all, came for the sole purpose of investing millions in the nation living in Zion.

And to conclude - I've voted for the Hassidic party in the recent elections, and I'm sure after couple of years that we've been on the board, You know my views well,
can You even imagine me "dancing with Hamas"??!

Please reconsider.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Does she have any standing as a displaced Arab Palestinian refugee with any claim to a "Right of Return" into Israeli Sovereign Territory?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What fraud?
> 
> 
> 
> *(ANSWER)*
> 
> She was never displaced from either the sovereign territory or the territories formerly occupied by the Jordanians.  This is true of nearly 85% to 90% (maybe even more) of the Arab Palestinians attempting to claim they have some right to return.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are grasping at straws. You are trying to obfuscate the issues. I hear regularly of a Palestinian whose father or grandfather owned a shop or farm in 48 and they cannot inherit it. It was stolen by the state. One woman, and I can't recall her name, inherited a farm in Gaza but Israel will not allow her into Gaza to claim her inheritance. (And Israel lies about no longer occupying Gaza.)
> 
> Land ownership is not the criteria to be a citizen. Someone who owns a farm in Iowa, or rents an apartment in NYC, or is homeless in LA have the same right to country.
> 
> Where people are born does not not change that right to country. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. John McCain was born in Panama. Yet both were American and could run for president.
> 
> You just spend too much time on Israeli talking points.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How bout this for grasping at straws Tinmore: Right of return will NEVER HAPPEN ....
> Now how about dem apples ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He can’t stand the fact that Israel exists. Ever see one of his infamous You Tube Videos where HASIDIC Jews and Hamas are dancing because they BOTH agreed Israel doesn’t have the Right to Exist?
> Before posting ; does it Honestly make sense that the most religious sector of the Jewish faith would object to a Jewish State and if they did what’s the reason?
> He’s too stupid and full of bigotry and hate to even consider asking the question
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahi,
> I don't understand how You think constantly bringing up the 4 "Hassidic Jews" who beside meeting with Hamas, Ahmadinijad and some ridiculous media stunts in a district hearing, for years have remained irrelevant even for the media, as if they were actually representing Hassidic Judaism, let alone how it serves Your love for Israel.
> 
> I don't expect any integrity from P F Tinmore, he's a pathological liar and a traitor of his nation.
> But whenever You repeat that libel, even if You think ridicules it, in effect further serves his racist bigotry.
> 
> Let me clarify something - I've studied in a Hassidic Yeshivah, and unlike me, my uncle attended there 2 additional years to study electronics for the IDF service, and went from there straight to Nahal Haredi.
> 
> The Yeshivah was in an old hotel building, and when empty during the summer, Rabbi Grossman shlit"a would accommodate entire companies (military units of 150-300 soldiers) there at a time, feed them, invite musicians, and scribes so that every soldier actually participates in writing and owns a letter in a Torah scroll.
> 
> Let me tell You another thing - the first Zionists were Hassidim and students of the Hagra, they built the first villages that later became among the largest central cities in Israel...take Petah Tikvah as just one example. The first chief Rabbi of Israel, was from one of the main Hassidic dynasties in the world today.
> 
> I know this may sound ridiculous in light of all the prevalent disinformation, but Hassidim are more hardcore Zionists than Begin and Netanyahu combined. You think they'd allow anyone even dare utter words like "border negotiations" or assume any compromises on Eretz Yisrael when they become majority in the Knesset?
> 
> You know how many hours Breslevers spend on the ground during war, driving from unit to unit just to uplift their spirit?
> 
> It's getting too long, and I haven't even touched the surface, but I'll finish with just 3 additional facts:
> those folk You constantly bring up to the conversation - were discommunicated even by the most fierce radically critical of the Zionism, all the Hassidic courts, no exception - they were decreed DIN RODEF,
> for joining the worst enemies of the Jewish people as a whole (doesn't matter Zionist or not) who openly declare their intentions to murder Jews en mass.  Basically they were decreed a death sentence, that is only prevented because the Sanhedrin, more than 2 millenia ago abandoned any such measures.
> Even the Hassidic court to which they previously belonged, from which their group emerged excommunicated them. And Rabbi Teitelboim, the author of the central theological work against Zionism, his grandson visited just recently, got a king's accommodation in Israel, private train and all, came for the sole purpose of investing millions in the nation living in Zion.
> 
> And to conclude - I've voted for the Hassidic party in the recent elections, and I'm sure after couple of years that we've been on the board, You know my views well,
> can You even imagine me "dancing with Hamas"??!
> 
> Please reconsider.
Click to expand...


 Never said or inferred all Hasidic Jews felt like that. If anything; I have sent You Tube pictures of them at the Western Wall
  Did you ever see his Video in which Hasidic Jews are holding up a sign which says “ Free Palestine?”


----------



## Mindful

*Palestinians Revive Blood Libels as Israel Saves Their Lives*
*by Khaled Abu Toameh*


Earlier, the Israeli authorities announced that they had facilitated 105,495 humanitarian crossings for Palestinians to receive medical treatment in Israel during the last week of February.


Yet, rather than showing gratitude toward the Israeli authorities for their assistance, the Palestinian Authority and its media outlets and officials are continuing their campaign of incitement against Israel.


If, as the Palestinians claim, the Jews have been using wild boars for the past two decades, why has no one snapped even one photo of an Israeli truck carrying the animals into Palestinian villages?


What about the hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West Bank? How come they too have not been attacked by wild boars? And how are these wild boars able to distinguish between Arabs and Jews?


While this sort of perverse Palestinian payback is nothing new, it nonetheless ought to interest anyone in the international community who is considering contributing to the Palestinian cause.





Israel is making a massive effort to help the Palestinians contain a coronavirus outbreak after several Palestinians in Bethlehem tested positive for the disease. In return, the Palestinians are continuing to spread blood libels against Israel and the Jews. Pictured: An Israeli ambulance, carrying a person with coronavirus symptoms, arrives at the infectious disease unit of Sheba Medical Center in Ramat Gan, on February 28. (Photo by Jack Guez/AFP via Getty Images)

Israel is making a massive effort to help the Palestinians contain a coronavirus outbreak after several Palestinians in Bethlehem tested positive for the disease. In return, the Palestinians are continuing to spread blood libels against Israel and the Jews.

Palestinians Revive Blood Libels as Israel Saves Their Lives


----------



## P F Tinmore

Building Bridges Radio: Palestine - Occupation 101 and Roadmap to Apartheid : Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, if you need anything to put you to sleep --- this will get you there.



P F Tinmore said:


> Building Bridges Radio: Palestine - Occupation 101 and Roadmap to Apartheid : Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


*(COMMENT)*

This program is all about casting the Gazan Population, which supports HAMAS which constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security across the entire eastern region of the Mediterranean Sea coastline, as a victim of Israeli Apartheid.  And it further, promotes the idea that America is a culpable partner in crime by supplying Israel the tools to suppress HAMAS directed hostilities and inspired activities further unlawful use of explosives, and other lethal devices, against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.  The presentation objects to Israeli action taken under the  International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  The presentation is framed in such a way as to oppose international cooperation between Israel and America in devising and adopting effective and practical *measures for the prevention of acts of terrorism*, and the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators. 

Nowhere, in the hour that I'll never get back, did the panelist address the application of Article 19(2) of the Convention.


_ "The activities of armed forces during an armed conflict, as those terms are understood under international humanitarian law, which are governed by that law, are not governed by this Convention, and the activities undertaken by military forces of a State in the exercise of their official duties, inasmuch as they are governed by other rules of international law, are not governed by this Convention."_​
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a government that directly engages in "criminal acts" directed against the US and Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  And the Arab Palestinians who support the Islamic Resistance are providing the sustenance to the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters which compose the terrorist resistance movement. 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, if you need anything to put you to sleep --- this will get you there.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Building Bridges Radio: Palestine - Occupation 101 and Roadmap to Apartheid : Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This program is all about casting the Gazan Population, which supports HAMAS which constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security across the entire eastern region of the Mediterranean Sea coastline, as a victim of Israeli Apartheid.  And it further, promotes the idea that America is a culpable partner in crime by supplying Israel the tools to suppress HAMAS directed hostilities and inspired activities further unlawful use of explosives, and other lethal devices, against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.  The presentation objects to Israeli action taken under the  International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  The presentation is framed in such a way as to oppose international cooperation between Israel and America in devising and adopting effective and practical *measures for the prevention of acts of terrorism*, and the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators.
> 
> Nowhere, in the hour that I'll never get back, did the panelist address the application of Article 19(2) of the Convention.
> 
> 
> _ "The activities of armed forces during an armed conflict, as those terms are understood under international humanitarian law, which are governed by that law, are not governed by this Convention, and the activities undertaken by military forces of a State in the exercise of their official duties, inasmuch as they are governed by other rules of international law, are not governed by this Convention."_​
> The Islamic Resistance Movement is a government that directly engages in "criminal acts" directed against the US and Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  And the Arab Palestinians who support the Islamic Resistance are providing the sustenance to the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters which compose the terrorist resistance movement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda?


----------



## P F Tinmore

This picture goes back to 1948 where a Palestinian woman and her son sit behind the Israeli fence which prevents her from entering her house after the Israeli forces took over it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

From our writer, Haneen Sabbah, living in Portugal trying to get status so she can bring her two children to join her: 

How does it feel to hear about the war in Gaza, when my children are there without me, living this fear?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Alongside Laila from Women in Hebron, we are extremely lucky to be hearing from Hala Shoman, a dentist from Gaza who also volunteered as a paramedic at the Great March of Return. Due to the irregular opening and closing of the border crossing with Egypt, she missed out on a PhD scholarship in Turkey because the crossing was closed at that time. "To lose that opportunity made me depressed. I didn't talk or eat for the first seven days," she said.

Ahmed Alnaouq, now studying journalism in the UK via the prestigious Chevening Scholarship, was the original project manager for We Are Not Numbers. He graduated from Al-Azhar University in Gaza City, with a bachelor's degree in English literature. Born in the middle Gaza community of Deir Albalah, he says his dream is to advance the cause of Palestinian human rights and to expose the “human face” of the Israeli occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

As a part of creating an attractive, entertaining community in school, Nesreen Pithatho, a teacher in Al-Furqan School in eastern #Gaza, made Sahlap for her students. Sahlap is a hot beverage Palestinians drink in winter to warm up their bodies. It is many's favorite, and it is an icon of winter here.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Due to their destroyed five-floor building months ago on the hands of the Israeli warplanes in #Gaza, Hamouda Abu Amra's family is living a rough time in winter as the cold weather is freezing their bodies mercilessly.

PC: Hatim Mousa


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



His You Tube illustrations have changed. The last one was ALL of “ Palestine “ with the destruction of the Jewish State.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, if you need anything to put you to sleep --- this will get you there.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Building Bridges Radio: Palestine - Occupation 101 and Roadmap to Apartheid : Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This program is all about casting the Gazan Population, which supports HAMAS which constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security across the entire eastern region of the Mediterranean Sea coastline, as a victim of Israeli Apartheid.  And it further, promotes the idea that America is a culpable partner in crime by supplying Israel the tools to suppress HAMAS directed hostilities and inspired activities further unlawful use of explosives, and other lethal devices, against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.  The presentation objects to Israeli action taken under the  International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings.  The presentation is framed in such a way as to oppose international cooperation between Israel and America in devising and adopting effective and practical *measures for the prevention of acts of terrorism*, and the prosecution and punishment of their perpetrators.
> 
> Nowhere, in the hour that I'll never get back, did the panelist address the application of Article 19(2) of the Convention.
> 
> 
> _ "The activities of armed forces during an armed conflict, as those terms are understood under international humanitarian law, which are governed by that law, are not governed by this Convention, and the activities undertaken by military forces of a State in the exercise of their official duties, inasmuch as they are governed by other rules of international law, are not governed by this Convention."_​
> The Islamic Resistance Movement is a government that directly engages in "criminal acts" directed against the US and Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the citizenry and general public.  And the Arab Palestinians who support the Islamic Resistance are providing the sustenance to the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters which compose the terrorist resistance movement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's terrorist propaganda?
Click to expand...

So as usual, you got ABSOLUTELY ZERO to contradict Roccos post . 
But then again, we all expect that from you.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> This picture goes back to 1948 where a Palestinian woman and her son sit behind the Israeli fence which prevents her from entering her house after the Israeli forces took over it.


Still pimping the Palestinians propaganda with pictures ??


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 24211369, member: 21837"]This picture goes back to 1948 where a Palestinian woman and her son sit behind the Israeli fence which prevents her from entering her house after the Israeli forces took over it.






[/QUOTE]

Thread? Of course there isn’t . How typical


----------



## watchingfromafar

~~~~~~~Size is relative ....,.,..,.Or so I hear,~~~~~~~

*& so said the Spider to da fly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*​
Only the one who sees the other first ....,,.,,.,./
Has a 70% chance of getting away
And da one with hundreds of "eyes" eats the last feast hase , you with multiple vision eyers ,

To da threfly

Took over

-


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group*

Ramallah, March 10, 2020—UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) recanted allegations that Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) “provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation” in a statement on their website. DCIP reached a settlement in its defamation case against UKLFI on Monday.

The
statement
read: “In 2018 we wrote about Defense for Children International – Palestine and referred to links between some past board members and a designated terrorist organisation, the PFLP. We would like to clarify that we did not intend to suggest that the organisation has close current links, or provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation.”

UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

This is just as bad.



			
				 post: 24224698 said:
			
		

> *UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group*
> 
> Ramallah, March 10, 2020—UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) recanted allegations that Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) “provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation” in a statement on their website. DCIP reached a settlement in its defamation case against UKLFI on Monday.
> 
> The statement read: “In 2018 we wrote about Defense for Children International – Palestine and referred to links between some past board members and a designated terrorist organisation, the PFLP. We would like to clarify that we did not intend to suggest that the organisation has close current links, or provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation.”
> 
> UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group


*(COMMENT)*

There is no reason to believe that PFLP IS NOT a terrorist organization.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Podcast Ep 15: Resisting the censors*

On episode 15 of The Electronic Intifada Podcast, filmmaker and journalist Abby Martin discusses her recent free speech lawsuit against the state of Georgia and its anti-BDS law.

Later in the episode, activist and writer Tony Greenstein explains the state of anti-Zionist politics following the struggle over false allegations of anti-Semitism in the UK Labour Party.

Abby was invited to be the keynote speaker at a conference at Georgia Southern University. But officials demanded she sign a contract which stated: “You certify that you are not currently engaged in, and agree for the duration of this agreement not to engage in, a boycott of Israel.”

Abby
refused to sign the Israel loyalty oath
and her keynote was canceled, as was the entire conference.

https://electronicintifada.net/sites/default/files/2020-02/abby_tony_ei_podcast.mp3


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is just as bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post: 24224698 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group*
> 
> Ramallah, March 10, 2020—UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) recanted allegations that Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) “provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation” in a statement on their website. DCIP reached a settlement in its defamation case against UKLFI on Monday.
> 
> The statement read: “In 2018 we wrote about Defense for Children International – Palestine and referred to links between some past board members and a designated terrorist organisation, the PFLP. We would like to clarify that we did not intend to suggest that the organisation has close current links, or provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation.”
> 
> UK Lawyers for Israel recants allegations of DCIP material support to designated terror group
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is no reason to believe that PFLP IS NOT a terrorist organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Same for Israel and more.

BTW, their terror propaganda flopped.


----------



## RoccoR

]RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, their terror propaganda flopped.


*(COMMENT)*

What "terror propaganda" flopped?




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ]RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, their terror propaganda flopped.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What "terror propaganda" flopped?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You didn't read my post.

Ramallah, March 10, 2020—UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) recanted allegations that Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) “provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation” in a statement on their website. DCIP reached a settlement in its defamation case against UKLFI on Monday.​


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, their terror propaganda flopped.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What "terror propaganda" flopped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't read my post.
> 
> Ramallah, March 10, 2020—UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) recanted allegations that Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) “provides any financial or material support to any terrorist organisation” in a statement on their website. DCIP reached a settlement in its defamation case against UKLFI on Monday.​
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I don't think you read into the meaning.  The judgment was not based on the fact that the PFLP was not a terrorist group, the judgment was based on the connection between the funding from the DCI-P and the PFLP.  While the funding may have made it to the PFLP, through an intermediary, the claim of a direct connection between the two is not proven.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## watchingfromafar

Israel was founded on terrorism, they started it even before 1947 and continue to murder without recourse; even today.

Facts are fact are facts

Before I get banned, I’ll leave you Isrealitis to yourselves; but should you respond to this post I will be forced to respond.
-


----------



## toastman

watchingfromafar said:


> Israel was founded on terrorism, they started it even before 1947 and continue to murder without recourse; even today.
> 
> Facts are fact are facts
> 
> Before I get banned, I’ll leave you Isrealitis to yourselves; but should you respond to this post I will be forced to respond.
> -


Define terrorism and explain how Israel is partaking in it today


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on terrorism, they started it even before 1947 and continue to murder without recourse; even today.
> 
> Facts are fact are facts
> 
> Before I get banned, I’ll leave you Isrealitis to yourselves; but should you respond to this post I will be forced to respond.
> -
> 
> 
> 
> Define terrorism and explain how Israel is partaking in it today
Click to expand...

There is no international law definition for terrorism.

It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchingfromafar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was founded on terrorism, they started it even before 1947 and continue to murder without recourse; even today.
> 
> Facts are fact are facts
> 
> Before I get banned, I’ll leave you Isrealitis to yourselves; but should you respond to this post I will be forced to respond.
> -
> 
> 
> 
> Define terrorism and explain how Israel is partaking in it today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
Click to expand...

But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

Well, what "P F Tinmore" is saying is, deceptively correct.  There is no one single law that, from an international law perspective, defines "terrorism."   But there ARE "_*19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts*_" created since the early 1960's.

This nonsense that there "is no international law definition for terrorism" is legal wrangling, worthy of an Arab Palestinian but not the rest of us.



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*
We know, for instance, that what the Gazans are doing along the Gaza Strip and Israelis border are acts of terrorism under the _International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing_ (1997).  So, if you violate _(as the Arab Palestinians do on a near-daily basis)_ the convention, you ARE a terrorist be international definition.

Article 2
1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:

a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or

b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.

3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:

a.Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or

b.Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or

c.In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​We know, for instance, that the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running; is a violation of the* "1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism."*
​This application of the "5th-grade name calling" description is nothing more than the Arab Palestinian trying to make such activities that are encompassed in the 19 Conventions as inconsequential.  We all know _(that would be everyone except the mentally deficient Arab Palestinian_) that the collective  disbursal of "explosive or other lethal device" _ (explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage)_ is more than just "5th grade name calling."  We know this instinctively as reasonable adults.  We do not have to reach back to 1938 and the working definition of "acts of terrorism" [_Article 1§2 • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)_] to make that determination.  As _Hercule Perot_ would say, the little gray cells are working.

So when are friend P F Tinmore comes back with this "name-calling" slapstick_ (humorously embarrassing)_, we can just move-on knowing that --- it means he has no legitimate comeback at all.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Well, what "P F Tinmore" is saying is, deceptively correct.  There is no one single law that, from an international law perspective, defines "terrorism."   But there ARE "_*19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts*_" created since the early 1960's.
> 
> This nonsense that there "is no international law definition for terrorism" is legal wrangling, worthy of an Arab Palestinian but not the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> We know, for instance, that what the Gazans are doing along the Gaza Strip and Israelis border are acts of terrorism under the _International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing_ (1997).  So, if you violate _(as the Arab Palestinians do on a near-daily basis)_ the convention, you ARE a terrorist be international definition.
> 
> Article 2
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.
> 
> 3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> a.Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> b.Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> c.In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​We know, for instance, that the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running; is a violation of the* "1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism."*
> ​This application of the "5th-grade name calling" description is nothing more than the Arab Palestinian trying to make such activities that are encompassed in the 19 Conventions as inconsequential.  We all know _(that would be everyone except the mentally deficient Arab Palestinian_) that the collective  disbursal of "explosive or other lethal device" _ (explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage)_ is more than just "5th grade name calling."  We know this instinctively as reasonable adults.  We do not have to reach back to 1938 and the working definition of "acts of terrorism" [_Article 1§2 • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)_] to make that determination.  As _Hercule Perot_ would say, the little gray cells are working.
> 
> So when are friend P F Tinmore comes back with this "name-calling" slapstick_ (humorously embarrassing)_, we can just move-on knowing that --- it means he has no legitimate comeback at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.

Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.


SOP for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Well, what "P F Tinmore" is saying is, deceptively correct.  There is no one single law that, from an international law perspective, defines "terrorism."   But there ARE "_*19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts*_" created since the early 1960's.
> 
> This nonsense that there "is no international law definition for terrorism" is legal wrangling, worthy of an Arab Palestinian but not the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> We know, for instance, that what the Gazans are doing along the Gaza Strip and Israelis border are acts of terrorism under the _International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing_ (1997).  So, if you violate _(as the Arab Palestinians do on a near-daily basis)_ the convention, you ARE a terrorist be international definition.
> 
> Article 2
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.
> 
> 3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> a.Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> b.Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> c.In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​We know, for instance, that the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running; is a violation of the* "1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism."*
> ​This application of the "5th-grade name calling" description is nothing more than the Arab Palestinian trying to make such activities that are encompassed in the 19 Conventions as inconsequential.  We all know _(that would be everyone except the mentally deficient Arab Palestinian_) that the collective  disbursal of "explosive or other lethal device" _ (explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage)_ is more than just "5th grade name calling."  We know this instinctively as reasonable adults.  We do not have to reach back to 1938 and the working definition of "acts of terrorism" [_Article 1§2 • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)_] to make that determination.  As _Hercule Perot_ would say, the little gray cells are working.
> 
> So when are friend P F Tinmore comes back with this "name-calling" slapstick_ (humorously embarrassing)_, we can just move-on knowing that --- it means he has no legitimate comeback at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
Click to expand...

Yet you’re still scared to tell us what the definition of terrrorism is.

Just like you’re scared to tell us how exactly the Palestinians are ‘defending themselves’....


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> 
> 
> 
> SOP for Israel.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> 
> 
> 
> SOP for Israel.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> 
> 
> 
> SOP for Israel.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.
> 
> 
> 
> SOP for Israel.
Click to expand...


the definition Rocco just gave applies to what the Palestinians do.

They attack Israelis with the intent of causing terror and bodily harm to civilians, in order to achieve a political and/or religious goal. 

There is no way around that Tinmore. It is why we see the Palestinians celebrating and handing out candy when Israelis are murdered...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Well, what "P F Tinmore" is saying is, deceptively correct.  There is no one single law that, from an international law perspective, defines "terrorism."   But there ARE "_*19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts*_" created since the early 1960's.
> 
> This nonsense that there "is no international law definition for terrorism" is legal wrangling, worthy of an Arab Palestinian but not the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> We know, for instance, that what the Gazans are doing along the Gaza Strip and Israelis border are acts of terrorism under the _International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing_ (1997).  So, if you violate _(as the Arab Palestinians do on a near-daily basis)_ the convention, you ARE a terrorist be international definition.
> 
> Article 2
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.
> 
> 3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> a.Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> b.Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> c.In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​We know, for instance, that the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running; is a violation of the* "1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism."*
> ​This application of the "5th-grade name calling" description is nothing more than the Arab Palestinian trying to make such activities that are encompassed in the 19 Conventions as inconsequential.  We all know _(that would be everyone except the mentally deficient Arab Palestinian_) that the collective  disbursal of "explosive or other lethal device" _ (explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage)_ is more than just "5th grade name calling."  We know this instinctively as reasonable adults.  We do not have to reach back to 1938 and the working definition of "acts of terrorism" [_Article 1§2 • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)_] to make that determination.  As _Hercule Perot_ would say, the little gray cells are working.
> 
> So when are friend P F Tinmore comes back with this "name-calling" slapstick_ (humorously embarrassing)_, we can just move-on knowing that --- it means he has no legitimate comeback at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet you’re still scared to tell us what the definition of terrrorism is.
> 
> Just like you’re scared to tell us how exactly the Palestinians are ‘defending themselves’....
Click to expand...

The international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[35][36] In this regard, Angus Martyn, briefing the Australian parliament, stated,

The international community has never succeeded in developing an accepted comprehensive definition of terrorism. During the 1970s and 1980s, *the United Nations attempts to define the term floundered mainly due to differences of opinion between various members about the use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination.*[37]​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#cite_note-Martyn-37

Terrorism - Wikipedia


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Well, what "P F Tinmore" is saying is, deceptively correct.  There is no one single law that, from an international law perspective, defines "terrorism."   But there ARE "_*19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts*_" created since the early 1960's.
> 
> This nonsense that there "is no international law definition for terrorism" is legal wrangling, worthy of an Arab Palestinian but not the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no international law definition for terrorism.
> 
> It is just a 5th grade name calling thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But there is a definition . And it absolutely applies to what the Palestinians do. This is why they will NEVER get what they want ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> We know, for instance, that what the Gazans are doing along the Gaza Strip and Israelis border are acts of terrorism under the _International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombing_ (1997).  So, if you violate _(as the Arab Palestinians do on a near-daily basis)_ the convention, you ARE a terrorist be international definition.
> 
> Article 2
> 1.  Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person unlawfully and intentionally delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device in, into or against a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility:
> 
> a.With the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury; or
> 
> b.With the intent to cause extensive destruction of such a place, facility or system, where such destruction results in or is likely to result in major economic loss.​2.  Any person also commits an offence if that person attempts to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 of the present article.
> 
> 3.Any person also commits an offence if that person:
> 
> a.Participates as an accomplice in an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> b.Organizes or directs others to commit an offence as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article; or
> 
> c.In any other way contributes to the commission of one or more offences as set forth in paragraph 1 or 2 of the present article by a group of persons acting with a common purpose; such contribution shall be intentional and either be made with the aim of furthering the general criminal activity or purpose of the group or be made in the knowledge of the intention of the group to commit the offence or offences concerned.​We know, for instance, that the financing of terrorists, whether direct or indirect, through groups claiming to have charitable, social or cultural goals or which also engage in illicit activities such as drug trafficking or gun running; is a violation of the* "1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism."*
> ​This application of the "5th-grade name calling" description is nothing more than the Arab Palestinian trying to make such activities that are encompassed in the 19 Conventions as inconsequential.  We all know _(that would be everyone except the mentally deficient Arab Palestinian_) that the collective  disbursal of "explosive or other lethal device" _ (explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage)_ is more than just "5th grade name calling."  We know this instinctively as reasonable adults.  We do not have to reach back to 1938 and the working definition of "acts of terrorism" [_Article 1§2 • Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938)_] to make that determination.  As _Hercule Perot_ would say, the little gray cells are working.
> 
> So when are friend P F Tinmore comes back with this "name-calling" slapstick_ (humorously embarrassing)_, we can just move-on knowing that --- it means he has no legitimate comeback at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet you’re still scared to tell us what the definition of terrrorism is.
> 
> Just like you’re scared to tell us how exactly the Palestinians are ‘defending themselves’....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[35][36] In this regard, Angus Martyn, briefing the Australian parliament, stated,
> 
> The international community has never succeeded in developing an accepted comprehensive definition of terrorism. During the 1970s and 1980s, *the United Nations attempts to define the term floundered mainly due to differences of opinion between various members about the use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination.*[37]​
> Terrorism - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

From your Link:
*Terrorism* is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence for political or religious purposes.

Thanks for proving my point


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

Oh, I see you  are just chock-full of original thoughts.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel is no more a terrorist-supporting country than any of the Allied Command has been since the end of WWII.  Just because the entire world did not line-up behind this half-assed → half-century-long → phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory, does not mean they the analogy "coal mine calling the kettle black" as relevant - or - even affording a view of the whole circle of reasons why the conflict still rages today.

*(WHAT MAKES THE ARAB PALESTINIAN A TERRORIST CULTURE)*

In accordance with (IAW) the 'principles of international law’ - not merely* jus ad bellum* -_ (the right to use force in a struggle for liberation and self-determination)_ but also* jus in bello - *that is → *avoidance of the use of force against civilians* as required by humanitarian legal principles.   Under S/RES/1373 a person who observes humanitarian law principles with respect to mean by which objectives may be achieved in a conflict would be committing acts of terrorism within the meaning of the resolution if they target were civilian or utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) immune from legitimate retaliatory military operations pursuant to any armed conflicts.

The use of civilians by designated HoAP terrorist groups to move forward towards a known demarcation, setup and release airborne explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, and then file complaints that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) fired on such persons is actual evidence of an intent by the HoAP to use civilians to shield such operations.  It would not be the IDF that is the terrorist, but rather the HoAP as the terrorist; pursuant to Article 5 of the  International Criminal Court (ICC)  Statute, and including crimes against humanity as referred to in Article 7, ICC.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Oh, I see you  are just chock-full of original thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is no more a terrorist-supporting country than any of the Allied Command has been since the end of WWII.  Just because the entire world did not line-up behind this half-assed → half-century-long → phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory, does not mean they the analogy "coal mine calling the kettle black" as relevant - or - even affording a view of the whole circle of reasons why the conflict still rages today.
> 
> *(WHAT MAKES THE ARAB PALESTINIAN A TERRORIST CULTURE)*
> 
> In accordance with (IAW) the 'principles of international law’ - not merely* jus ad bellum* -_ (the right to use force in a struggle for liberation and self-determination)_ but also* jus in bello - *that is → *avoidance of the use of force against civilians* as required by humanitarian legal principles.   Under S/RES/1373 a person who observes humanitarian law principles with respect to mean by which objectives may be achieved in a conflict would be committing acts of terrorism within the meaning of the resolution if they target were civilian or utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) immune from legitimate retaliatory military operations pursuant to any armed conflicts.
> 
> The use of civilians by designated HoAP terrorist groups to move forward towards a known demarcation, setup and release airborne explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, and then file complaints that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) fired on such persons is actual evidence of an intent by the HoAP to use civilians to shield such operations.  It would not be the IDF that is the terrorist, but rather the HoAP as the terrorist; pursuant to Article 5 of the  International Criminal Court (ICC)  Statute, and including crimes against humanity as referred to in Article 7, ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.

All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.

The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.

*The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Oh, I see you  are just chock-full of original thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is no more a terrorist-supporting country than any of the Allied Command has been since the end of WWII.  Just because the entire world did not line-up behind this half-assed → half-century-long → phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory, does not mean they the analogy "coal mine calling the kettle black" as relevant - or - even affording a view of the whole circle of reasons why the conflict still rages today.
> 
> *(WHAT MAKES THE ARAB PALESTINIAN A TERRORIST CULTURE)*
> 
> In accordance with (IAW) the 'principles of international law’ - not merely* jus ad bellum* -_ (the right to use force in a struggle for liberation and self-determination)_ but also* jus in bello - *that is → *avoidance of the use of force against civilians* as required by humanitarian legal principles.   Under S/RES/1373 a person who observes humanitarian law principles with respect to mean by which objectives may be achieved in a conflict would be committing acts of terrorism within the meaning of the resolution if they target were civilian or utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) immune from legitimate retaliatory military operations pursuant to any armed conflicts.
> 
> The use of civilians by designated HoAP terrorist groups to move forward towards a known demarcation, setup and release airborne explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, and then file complaints that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) fired on such persons is actual evidence of an intent by the HoAP to use civilians to shield such operations.  It would not be the IDF that is the terrorist, but rather the HoAP as the terrorist; pursuant to Article 5 of the  International Criminal Court (ICC)  Statute, and including crimes against humanity as referred to in Article 7, ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory,


Your clunker of the day.

Then you, again, base your conclusions on false premise.

Trustees do not acquire territory or sovereignty.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Oh, I see you  are just chock-full of original thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is no more a terrorist-supporting country than any of the Allied Command has been since the end of WWII.  Just because the entire world did not line-up behind this half-assed → half-century-long → phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory, does not mean they the analogy "coal mine calling the kettle black" as relevant - or - even affording a view of the whole circle of reasons why the conflict still rages today.
> 
> *(WHAT MAKES THE ARAB PALESTINIAN A TERRORIST CULTURE)*
> 
> In accordance with (IAW) the 'principles of international law’ - not merely* jus ad bellum* -_ (the right to use force in a struggle for liberation and self-determination)_ but also* jus in bello - *that is → *avoidance of the use of force against civilians* as required by humanitarian legal principles.   Under S/RES/1373 a person who observes humanitarian law principles with respect to mean by which objectives may be achieved in a conflict would be committing acts of terrorism within the meaning of the resolution if they target were civilian or utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) immune from legitimate retaliatory military operations pursuant to any armed conflicts.
> 
> The use of civilians by designated HoAP terrorist groups to move forward towards a known demarcation, setup and release airborne explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, and then file complaints that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) fired on such persons is actual evidence of an intent by the HoAP to use civilians to shield such operations.  It would not be the IDF that is the terrorist, but rather the HoAP as the terrorist; pursuant to Article 5 of the  International Criminal Court (ICC)  Statute, and including crimes against humanity as referred to in Article 7, ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.
> 
> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.
> 
> *The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.*
Click to expand...


Interesting. Now if only you could tell us how what the Palestinians are doing is considered ‘resisting’


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,
> 
> Oh, I see you  are just chock-full of original thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel calling the Palestinians terrorists is like the coal mine calling the kettle black.
> 
> Chickenfeed compared to Israel's crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel is no more a terrorist-supporting country than any of the Allied Command has been since the end of WWII.  Just because the entire world did not line-up behind this half-assed → half-century-long → phony cause for a conflict to assume control over trustee territory, does not mean they the analogy "coal mine calling the kettle black" as relevant - or - even affording a view of the whole circle of reasons why the conflict still rages today.
> 
> *(WHAT MAKES THE ARAB PALESTINIAN A TERRORIST CULTURE)*
> 
> In accordance with (IAW) the 'principles of international law’ - not merely* jus ad bellum* -_ (the right to use force in a struggle for liberation and self-determination)_ but also* jus in bello - *that is → *avoidance of the use of force against civilians* as required by humanitarian legal principles.   Under S/RES/1373 a person who observes humanitarian law principles with respect to mean by which objectives may be achieved in a conflict would be committing acts of terrorism within the meaning of the resolution if they target were civilian or utilizing the presence of civilians to render certain Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) immune from legitimate retaliatory military operations pursuant to any armed conflicts.
> 
> The use of civilians by designated HoAP terrorist groups to move forward towards a known demarcation, setup and release airborne explosive or incendiary weapon or device that is designed, or has the capability, to cause death, serious bodily injury or substantial material damage, and then file complaints that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) fired on such persons is actual evidence of an intent by the HoAP to use civilians to shield such operations.  It would not be the IDF that is the terrorist, but rather the HoAP as the terrorist; pursuant to Article 5 of the  International Criminal Court (ICC)  Statute, and including crimes against humanity as referred to in Article 7, ICC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.
> 
> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.
> 
> *The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.*
Click to expand...




The victory march will continue until the Palestinian flag flies in Jerusalem and in all of Palestine. Yasser Arafat Quotes - InspyreApp | Inspyre

Actually, according to " International Law" they don't

Abbas Statement

"We call for the establishment of a system that would guarantee an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital on the 1967 borders."

  Notice it states JERUSALEM ?  Doesn't say E. Jerusalem or Israel's right to their Religious Sites ( Jewish Quarter) which is SUPPOSED to be protected under " International Law"


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mahmoud Abbas’s 1,000 nos




Abbas’s Fatah movement makes it clear that it ideologically rejects Israel’s very legitimacy, despite Palestinian signatures on the Oslo Accords. The parlance in Fatah newspapers and social media accounts is regularly about transience and permanence, calling Israelis abiroun (transient) and Palestinians bakoun (those who remain). The message is clear: Eventually, Israel will be terminated.
Just this week, Fatah Commissioner and Central Committee member Tawfiq Tirawi posted on Facebook: “Who said that we are for a state [on the lines of] 1967? Who said this? In Fatah, this does not exist in our constitution and our charter!... We say that Nazareth, Haifa, and Acre [i.e., Israeli cities] are Palestinian, and they will remain Palestinian! Our Palestinian land is from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea. I dare any Palestinian, any senior Palestinian official, or any Palestinian leader to reduce the Palestinian map to the West Bank and Gaza! He would not be able to walk one meter in the streets of our Palestinian cities.”


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Some terminology becomes irrelevant and even obsolete because their purpose has transmuted from any value as definitive or informative → to → something political and argumentative.  The example here, wherein the phrase "settler-colonial project" has been turned from meaning → a foreign effort on behalf of an exploring power that develops in places where "needy settlers" establish themselves and setup a permanence → asserts self-determination on their own behalf_ (NOT on the behalf of the exploring power)_ → into → meaning fictitious exploring power that controls and exploits a movement for its own economic and commercial gain.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) generates these negative stories in order to walk over their opposition and to assume a status far beyond that for which they are worthy.



P F Tinmore said:


> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.


*(COMMENT)*

The lens I see through amount to the five political perspectives used by the HoAP; they are the radical _(far left)_, liberal _(left)_, moderate _(middle)_, conservative _(right)_, and Reactionary _(far right)_.  The HoAP do not really have laws through which justice can be focused dispensed.  The formal rules that carry the sanction of the international community are NOT able to meet the criteria necessary for the Arab Palestinians.  WHY!   Because the HoAP see no value in any law that does NOT have a positive outcome for them and a negative impact on the Israeli People.



P F Tinmore said:


> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.


*(COMMENT)*

Again, you are confusing personal property laws with the laws governing statehood and sovereignty.  Let's stick to the topic.  In a time, before the Armistice of Mudros, the civil and religious' rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine _(later to become known as the HoAP or the Palestinian Black Hand)_ were respected and protected.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.


*(COMMENT)*

This is absolutely correct.  But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.  That is a false interpretation of the law.  

“Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.” _(BAN KI-MOON, former UN Secretary-General)_



P F Tinmore said:


> The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.


*(COMMENT)*

This is NOT a blanket truth.  But in any event, it does not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  Israel already is actualized under self-determination.  And the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation in the creation of self-governing institutions.  The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Some terminology becomes irrelevant and even obsolete because their purpose has transmuted from any value as definitive or informative → to → something political and argumentative.  The example here, wherein the phrase "settler-colonial project" has been turned from meaning → a foreign effort on behalf of an exploring power that develops in places where "needy settlers" establish themselves and setup a permanence → asserts self-determination on their own behalf_ (NOT on the behalf of the exploring power)_ → into → meaning fictitious exploring power that controls and exploits a movement for its own economic and commercial gain.
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) generates these negative stories in order to walk over their opposition and to assume a status far beyond that for which they are worthy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The lens I see through amount to the five political perspectives used by the HoAP; they are the radical _(far left)_, liberal _(left)_, moderate _(middle)_, conservative _(right)_, and Reactionary _(far right)_.  The HoAP do not really have laws through which justice can be focused dispensed.  The formal rules that carry the sanction of the international community are NOT able to meet the criteria necessary for the Arab Palestinians.  WHY!   Because the HoAP see no value in any law that does NOT have a positive outcome for them and a negative impact on the Israeli People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you are confusing personal property laws with the laws governing statehood and sovereignty.  Let's stick to the topic.  In a time, before the Armistice of Mudros, the civil and religious' rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine _(later to become known as the HoAP or the Palestinian Black Hand)_ were respected and protected.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is absolutely correct.  But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.  That is a false interpretation of the law.
> 
> “Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.” _(BAN KI-MOON, former UN Secretary-General)_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is NOT a blanket truth.  But in any event, it does not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  Israel already is actualized under self-determination.  And the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation in the creation of self-governing institutions.  The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.


You post that a lot but you have never clarified what you think it means and how it applies to the Palestinians.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Some terminology becomes irrelevant and even obsolete because their purpose has transmuted from any value as definitive or informative → to → something political and argumentative.  The example here, wherein the phrase "settler-colonial project" has been turned from meaning → a foreign effort on behalf of an exploring power that develops in places where "needy settlers" establish themselves and setup a permanence → asserts self-determination on their own behalf_ (NOT on the behalf of the exploring power)_ → into → meaning fictitious exploring power that controls and exploits a movement for its own economic and commercial gain.
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) generates these negative stories in order to walk over their opposition and to assume a status far beyond that for which they are worthy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The lens I see through amount to the five political perspectives used by the HoAP; they are the radical _(far left)_, liberal _(left)_, moderate _(middle)_, conservative _(right)_, and Reactionary _(far right)_.  The HoAP do not really have laws through which justice can be focused dispensed.  The formal rules that carry the sanction of the international community are NOT able to meet the criteria necessary for the Arab Palestinians.  WHY!   Because the HoAP see no value in any law that does NOT have a positive outcome for them and a negative impact on the Israeli People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you are confusing personal property laws with the laws governing statehood and sovereignty.  Let's stick to the topic.  In a time, before the Armistice of Mudros, the civil and religious' rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine _(later to become known as the HoAP or the Palestinian Black Hand)_ were respected and protected.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is absolutely correct.  But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.  That is a false interpretation of the law.
> 
> “Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.” _(BAN KI-MOON, former UN Secretary-General)_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is NOT a blanket truth.  But in any event, it does not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  Israel already is actualized under self-determination.  And the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation in the creation of self-governing institutions.  The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You post that a lot but you have never clarified what you think it means and how it applies to the Palestinians.
Click to expand...

That’s because you can’t read


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In recent times, I've never seen more compelling evidence that the Arab Palestinian people are disconnected from the Principles of International Law _(as the first basic concept)_ and the need to be developing connections and Relations that form Co-operation with the Israelis _(as the second basic concepts)_ as a matter of ethics and morality. 

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP), and their respective support base, have generally altered the face of that was once a people having a legitimate complaint territorial dispute.  Yet the deliberate attempt to
◈  Putting politics and political solutions front and center,
◈  Giving prevention an uncontested home,
◈  Leveraging the UN’s three pillars:→
✦  Human Rights,
✦  Peace and Security,
✦  Development of their communities—in a mutually reinforcing way.​
In the combined territories _(West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem)_ the HoAP have systematically pushed a mental eradication of political freedoms through the means of bombardment by totalitarian Islamic regimes, accomplished through both ideology and terror.

One thing strongly suggested by Allied Powers _(now pro-Israeli powers)_ attempts to preserve a hegemony for morality _(existing outside the moralities harbored by the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, Asymmetric Fighters and such)_ in some guise is that the “dirty hands” problem cannot be quarantined as a problem arising only in the pro-Arab Palestinian political arena.  It is just that the HoAP makes no effort to engage in negotiations to resolve the differences in territorial and sovereignty matters.  In fact, while Israel and the "Quartet" _(United Nations, the European Union, the United States and Russia)_ may not be perfect, they spent a majority of its efforts attempting to bring the parties in conflict to the peace table.  Whereas, the HoAP spent a majority of its time promoting some variation of the Three No's (_*no* peace with Israel, *no* recognition of Israel, *no* negotiations_).



RoccoR said:


> The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.





P F Tinmore said:


> You post that a lot but you have never clarified what you think it means and how it applies to the Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

The clarification rests with the fact that the Arab Palestinians make no effort at all to enjoin the International Laws.  What they do attempt to do is make the audience believe that much of what they say is some sort of law when, in fact, it is not.

*•  Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace  •*

_Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States_
_ by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and _
_security and justice are not endangered._​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace •


Load of hooey.

The only offers the Palestinians have ever received is for them to surrender, give up land and other rights.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, what nonsense.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace •
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> The only offers the Palestinians have ever received is for them to surrender, give up land and other rights.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

I'm not so sure that is true.  Can you give me an example of a Peace Negotiation wherein the  Arab Palestinians had to relinquish sovereignty...  

I am not even aware that the Arab Palestinians had sovereignty anywhere... at any time...

Page 208 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
*border control.*  lnt'llaw.  A country's physical manifestation of its territorial sovereignty, by which it regulates which people and goods may enter and leave. -  As a practical matter, border controls are often used to contain plant and animal diseases, fight terrorism, and detect the movement of criminals.

Page 1523 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
*sovereign state.* (17c)  1. A state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject.   2. A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some central authority, whose commands those members must obey. Also termed independent state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.

_"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that each nation
 answers only to its own domestic order and is not accountable to a larger 
international community, save only to the extent it has consented to do so. 
Sovereign states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units, atoms 
that spin around an international orbit, sometimes colliding, sometimes 
cooperating, but always separate and apart." _​
When and where did the Arab Palestinian meet the criteria?



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, what nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace •
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> The only offers the Palestinians have ever received is for them to surrender, give up land and other rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not so sure that is true.  Can you give me an example of a Peace Negotiation wherein the  Arab Palestinians had to relinquish sovereignty...
> 
> I am not even aware that the Arab Palestinians had sovereignty anywhere... at any time...
> 
> Page 208 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *border control.*  lnt'llaw.  A country's physical manifestation of its territorial sovereignty, by which it regulates which people and goods may enter and leave. -  As a practical matter, border controls are often used to contain plant and animal diseases, fight terrorism, and detect the movement of criminals.
> 
> Page 1523 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *sovereign state.* (17c)  1. A state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject.   2. A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some central authority, whose commands those members must obey. Also termed independent state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.
> 
> _"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that each nation
> answers only to its own domestic order and is not accountable to a larger
> international community, save only to the extent it has consented to do so.
> Sovereign states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units, atoms
> that spin around an international orbit, sometimes colliding, sometimes
> cooperating, but always separate and apart." _​
> When and where did the Arab Palestinian meet the criteria?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You believe that sovereignty begins with a government or a state. Your past with government employment has fogged your vision on this. It is true that there are sovereign governments/states. However, these are merely extensions of where the sovereignty actually lies. Sovereignty belongs in the hands of the people. They are the ones with the right to establish a government and declare their state without external interference. They do not need to get permission from foreign powers.

It is the people in a defined territory who are the sovereigns of that territory. They have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty, The right to territorial integrity. No foreign power has the authority to violate those rights. Israel is a foreign power violating those rights.

*ASEN 2013: Karma Nabulsi - The 'Treasure' of Revolutions: A Tradition of Thought and Practice.*

**


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, what nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace •
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> The only offers the Palestinians have ever received is for them to surrender, give up land and other rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not so sure that is true.  Can you give me an example of a Peace Negotiation wherein the  Arab Palestinians had to relinquish sovereignty...
> 
> I am not even aware that the Arab Palestinians had sovereignty anywhere... at any time...
> 
> Page 208 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *border control.*  lnt'llaw.  A country's physical manifestation of its territorial sovereignty, by which it regulates which people and goods may enter and leave. -  As a practical matter, border controls are often used to contain plant and animal diseases, fight terrorism, and detect the movement of criminals.
> 
> Page 1523 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *sovereign state.* (17c)  1. A state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject.   2. A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some central authority, whose commands those members must obey. Also termed independent state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.
> 
> _"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that each nation
> answers only to its own domestic order and is not accountable to a larger
> international community, save only to the extent it has consented to do so.
> Sovereign states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units, atoms
> that spin around an international orbit, sometimes colliding, sometimes
> cooperating, but always separate and apart." _​
> When and where did the Arab Palestinian meet the criteria?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You believe that sovereignty begins with a government or a state. Your past with government employment has fogged your vision on this. It is true that there are sovereign governments/states. However, these are merely extensions of where the sovereignty actually lies. Sovereignty belongs in the hands of the people. They are the ones with the right to establish a government and declare their state without external interference. They do not need to get permission from foreign powers.
> 
> It is the people in a defined territory who are the sovereigns of that territory. They have the right to self determination without external interference. The right to independence and sovereignty, The right to territorial integrity. No foreign power has the authority to violate those rights. Israel is a foreign power violating those rights.
> 
> *ASEN 2013: Karma Nabulsi - The 'Treasure' of Revolutions: A Tradition of Thought and Practice.*
> 
> **
Click to expand...








Talk about external interference...

Is that why instead of independence Arabs attempted to establish control of an Arabian royalty,
and keep marching under the flag of invading Caliphates?


----------



## watchingfromafar

toastman said:


> Define terrorism and explain how Israel is partaking in it today


Thursday, November 14, 2019

*Israel Is Killing Children Asleep In Their Homes. Humans. Not Numbers. Again.*

The reign of terror, which we help fund, goes on. In the last two days of airstrikes over the open-air prison that is Gaza, where two million beleaguered people, almost half of them children, are packed and trapped, *Israel has killed at least 34 Palestinians and injured more than 111*. Many of the victims were children. The dead included eight members of the Sawarkah family - three adults, five kids - killed around midnight as they slept in their modest home without running water or electricity. The only survivor of the slaughter of the Sawarkahs was a month-old girl named Marah; her mother, father, aunt and siblings were all buried in the rubble. A relative, Taleb Mesmeh, said that when people heard the explosions, "We never expected (they'd target) a civilian home that looked like any normal house.” The retrieved bodies "were torn into pieces, and there was blood everywhere," he said. “This is Israel targeting children inside their homes.” Then he began picking some children's school uniforms from the rubble. "This is Mo’ath's school uniform," he wailed. "She was still in first grade. What did she do to be killed?”
Israel Is Killing Children Asleep In Their Homes. Humans. Not Numbers. Again.

*In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. Now It Isn’t Sure.*
Nov 15, 2019

The Israeli military said it has begun an investigation into who was actually killed in an airstrike that Palestinians said caused the deaths of eight civilians.
In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. Now It Isn’t Sure.

27 July 2019, 7:31 pm
*UN: Number of Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2018 highest in 4 years*
A UN report released Friday said that in 2018 Israel killed 56 Palestinian children — the largest number since Israel and Hamas fought a war in the Gaza Strip in 2014.

In the report to the Security Council, United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres said Israeli troops injured nearly 2,700 children “in the context of demonstrations, clashes and search and arrest operations,” according to Reuters.
UN: Number of Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2018 highest in 4 years

I have cataloged hundreds (100's) of Palestinian children killed by IDF troops or snipers

note: I am just answering a posters question to me
-


----------



## watchingfromafar

My gift to Tel Aviv


 

just kidding 
-


----------



## toastman

watchingfromafar said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Define terrorism and explain how Israel is partaking in it today
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday, November 14, 2019
> 
> *Israel Is Killing Children Asleep In Their Homes. Humans. Not Numbers. Again.*
> 
> The reign of terror, which we help fund, goes on. In the last two days of airstrikes over the open-air prison that is Gaza, where two million beleaguered people, almost half of them children, are packed and trapped, *Israel has killed at least 34 Palestinians and injured more than 111*. Many of the victims were children. The dead included eight members of the Sawarkah family - three adults, five kids - killed around midnight as they slept in their modest home without running water or electricity. The only survivor of the slaughter of the Sawarkahs was a month-old girl named Marah; her mother, father, aunt and siblings were all buried in the rubble. A relative, Taleb Mesmeh, said that when people heard the explosions, "We never expected (they'd target) a civilian home that looked like any normal house.” The retrieved bodies "were torn into pieces, and there was blood everywhere," he said. “This is Israel targeting children inside their homes.” Then he began picking some children's school uniforms from the rubble. "This is Mo’ath's school uniform," he wailed. "She was still in first grade. What did she do to be killed?”
> Israel Is Killing Children Asleep In Their Homes. Humans. Not Numbers. Again.
> 
> *In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. Now It Isn’t Sure.*
> Nov 15, 2019
> 
> The Israeli military said it has begun an investigation into who was actually killed in an airstrike that Palestinians said caused the deaths of eight civilians.
> In Strike That Killed 5 Children, Israel Said It Took Out Gaza Militant. Now It Isn’t Sure.
> 
> 27 July 2019, 7:31 pm
> *UN: Number of Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2018 highest in 4 years*
> A UN report released Friday said that in 2018 Israel killed 56 Palestinian children — the largest number since Israel and Hamas fought a war in the Gaza Strip in 2014.
> 
> In the report to the Security Council, United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres said Israeli troops injured nearly 2,700 children “in the context of demonstrations, clashes and search and arrest operations,” according to Reuters.
> UN: Number of Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2018 highest in 4 years
> 
> I have cataloged hundreds (100's) of Palestinian children killed by IDF troops or snipers
> 
> note: I am just answering a posters question to me
> -
Click to expand...

Now if only you could prove that Israel actually targets civilians....


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today Posting #15050 •
⁜→  watchingfromafar, et al,

How should we go about determining or judging whether such arguments or presentations like these are reasonable - versus - unreasonable?

In the last decade, or so, a number of discussion group members has, without question, taken issue or
 strenuously objected to my position on this or that perspective I've taken concerning the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  I have tried to take their opposing points of view into consideration without becoming involved in an exchange directed against the critic rather than the position they are maintaining.  And those of you that have, from time to time, observed → I have revised, clarified or simply expunged the position argued as often as I have put-up my dukes and stood my ground.  Some of the engagements I resolved by means of repairing and improving the presentation of a concept or an alternative view.  In a few cases, where I thought I was fighting a losing battle pertaining to the issue, I simply faded away from that particular contest; not because I thought I was wrong, but because I saw nothing was to be gained by further fisticuffs.   In most of the discussions here I am not trying to win but merely amplify a view on a particular subject → giving indisputable examples of as to the fallacies presented by the opponent.

This is one of those borderline topics _(minors → as a special class of victims in conflict)_ where little is to be gained.  Why, because there has never been _(recorded in history)_ a major conflict or extended insurgency in which innocent minors have not suffered without regard to the outcome.



watchingfromafar said:


> UN: Number of Palestinian children killed by Israel in 2018 highest in 4 years
> 
> I have cataloged hundreds (100's) of Palestinian children killed by IDF troops or snipers


*(COMMENT)*


Once you get past the roadblock that to defend the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in this action is not morally reprehensible, THEN the keys to the argument are able to be played out.

There are two fallacies made here.  Surprising → given so few words ( only 10 - to - 13), depending on how you count, are involved.

◈  The Fallacy leads to perception or observations that deviate from “reality.”

✦  In a conflict, minors (children) are generally perceived to be "innocent."​
✦  The death of a child is perceived to be always wrong.​
 ◈  The Fallacy leads to a judgmental outcome that deviates from “reality.”

✦  The killer of a child is always wrong.​
So first we must test this.  Is the premise correct:


			
				Arutz Sheva 7 said:
			
		

> *Pupils say the terrorists whose names adorn their schools become their 'role models.'*
> In the Palestinian Authority, however, the situation is somewhat different. There, dozens of schools are named for murderers. A list compiled by _Palestinian Media Watch (PMW)_ finds 31 schools named for terrorists and Nazi collaborators, thereby "presenting murderers who targeted civilians as role models for Palestinian ‎children."
> *SOURCE*:  *Over 30 Palestinian schools named for terrorists* •


One of the more popular names for schools is the namesake: • Dalal al-Maghribi •  Dalal al-Maghribi_ [a member of  Fatah • Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)]_ was responsible for an attack that resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.

It would appear that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) _(Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters)_ condone the use of children in both the offensive role _(as in the Gaza Border role)_ and the hostile target role _(as in kidnap and murder victims)_.  To argue these roles is a losing proposition as much for the anti-HoAP as it is for the pro-HoAP.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Some terminology becomes irrelevant and even obsolete because their purpose has transmuted from any value as definitive or informative → to → something political and argumentative.  The example here, wherein the phrase "settler-colonial project" has been turned from meaning → a foreign effort on behalf of an exploring power that develops in places where "needy settlers" establish themselves and setup a permanence → asserts self-determination on their own behalf_ (NOT on the behalf of the exploring power)_ → into → meaning fictitious exploring power that controls and exploits a movement for its own economic and commercial gain.
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) generates these negative stories in order to walk over their opposition and to assume a status far beyond that for which they are worthy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You surely view this conflict through Israel's lens.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The lens I see through amount to the five political perspectives used by the HoAP; they are the radical _(far left)_, liberal _(left)_, moderate _(middle)_, conservative _(right)_, and Reactionary _(far right)_.  The HoAP do not really have laws through which justice can be focused dispensed.  The formal rules that carry the sanction of the international community are NOT able to meet the criteria necessary for the Arab Palestinians.  WHY!   Because the HoAP see no value in any law that does NOT have a positive outcome for them and a negative impact on the Israeli People.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Israeli settlers are necessary, integral, and active members of Israel's settler colonial project. Settler colonial projects are aggressive by nature. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians did not leave their homes and properties because Israel said please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Again, you are confusing personal property laws with the laws governing statehood and sovereignty.  Let's stick to the topic.  In a time, before the Armistice of Mudros, the civil and religious' rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine _(later to become known as the HoAP or the Palestinian Black Hand)_ were respected and protected.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians have the right to resist this aggression and to return to their homes and properties.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is absolutely correct.  But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.  That is a false interpretation of the law.
> 
> “Nothing can justify terrorism — ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.” _(BAN KI-MOON, former UN Secretary-General)_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination is not terrorism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is NOT a blanket truth.  But in any event, it does not apply to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict.  Israel already is actualized under self-determination.  And the Arab Palestinian rejected the participation in the creation of self-governing institutions.  The conflict is perpetuated by a political pressure that resists the application of the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States _(1970 A/RES/25/2625)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> This is absolutely correct. But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.


Interesting, what would you suggest?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is not a simple question, especially for you.  It requires the focus on the key points that give meaning to the discussion.  You (and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner) do not that the focus.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absolutely correct. But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, what would you suggest?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

*First*

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:  (A/RES/3314 XXIX)  Resolution 3314 is NOT a law.  It is a signal concept dictionary.  Hence it's named/title is* Definition of Aggression.*

For an act of "Aggression" to occur, there MUST be at least two "STATES" to the conflict.  In this case we parties have:

◈  The Arab Palestinians of the disputed territories.

◈  The Israelis with an established state.  ​
Second:

Can Palestine be considered a "State."  Not everyone agrees.




https://www.icc-cpi.int/CourtRecords/CR2020_01009.PDF

Thus, in the absence of clear irrefutable evidence of Palestine’s existence as a state and taking into account the lack of an international consensus in this regard, both quantitative and qualitative, the Court cannot assert that there is such a state at this point in time.  (/s/  Professor Malcolm N Shaw QC)
https://www.icc-cpi.int/CourtRecords/CR2020_01017.PDF



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh, what nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> • Seven Times Palestinians Rejected Peace •
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> The only offers the Palestinians have ever received is for them to surrender, give up land and other rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not so sure that is true.  Can you give me an example of a Peace Negotiation wherein the  Arab Palestinians had to relinquish sovereignty...
> 
> I am not even aware that the Arab Palestinians had sovereignty anywhere... at any time...
> 
> Page 208 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *border control.*  lnt'llaw.  A country's physical manifestation of its territorial sovereignty, by which it regulates which people and goods may enter and leave. -  As a practical matter, border controls are often used to contain plant and animal diseases, fight terrorism, and detect the movement of criminals.
> 
> Page 1523 Black's Law Dictionary (9th ed.)
> *sovereign state.* (17c)  1. A state that possesses an independent existence, being complete in itself, without being merely part of a larger whole to whose government it is subject.   2. A political community whose members are bound together by the tie of common subjection to some central authority, whose commands those members must obey. Also termed independent state. Cf. client state, nonsovereign state under STATE.
> 
> _"The essence of statehood is sovereignty. the principle that each nation
> answers only to its own domestic order and is not accountable to a larger
> international community, save only to the extent it has consented to do so.
> Sovereign states are thus conceived as hermetically sealed units, atoms
> that spin around an international orbit, sometimes colliding, sometimes
> cooperating, but always separate and apart." _​
> When and where did the Arab Palestinian meet the criteria?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are still on Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that the Palestinians have no rights.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, I never said that the "Arab Palestinians have no rights."  And I don't believe the Israelis carry that as a political policy.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still on Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that the Palestinians have no rights.


*(COMMENT)*

I'm not even sure that you can deduce such a position from what I wrote.  You raise that issue when you don't have anything constructive to say.

We were not even talking about Arab Palestinian Rights.  But since you brought it up, the Arab Palestinians cannot invoke a right of any kind, at the expense of a right of another.  As humanity goes, both being human and both being equal, rights become a moot point.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Again, I never said that the "Arab Palestinians have no rights."  And I don't believe the Israelis carry that as a political policy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still on Israel's unsubstantiated talking point that the Palestinians have no rights.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I'm not even sure that you can deduce such a position from what I wrote.  You raise that issue when you don't have anything constructive to say.
> 
> We were not even talking about Arab Palestinian Rights.  But since you brought it up, the Arab Palestinians cannot invoke a right of any kind, at the expense of a right of another.  As humanity goes, both being human and both being equal, rights become a moot point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the Arab Palestinians cannot invoke a right of any kind, at the expense of a right of another.


Whose rights would the Palestinians violate and what rights would that be?


RoccoR said:


> Again, I never said that the "Arab Palestinians have no rights."


You have an excuse for every Israeli violation of Palestinian rights. Your premise is that Israel cannot violate Palestinian rights because they don't have any.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This is not a simple question, especially for you.  It requires the focus on the key points that give meaning to the discussion.  You (and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner) do not that the focus.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is absolutely correct. But the "right to resist aggression" is not a blanket right to use any and all means.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, what would you suggest?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> *First*
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:  (A/RES/3314 XXIX)  Resolution 3314 is NOT a law.  It is a signal concept dictionary.  Hence it's named/title is* Definition of Aggression.*
> 
> For an act of "Aggression" to occur, there MUST be at least two "STATES" to the conflict.  In this case we parties have:
> 
> ◈  The Arab Palestinians of the disputed territories.
> 
> ◈  The Israelis with an established state. ​
> Second:
> 
> Can Palestine be considered a "State."  Not everyone agrees.
> 
> View attachment 312882
> https://www.icc-cpi.int/CourtRecords/CR2020_01009.PDF
> 
> Thus, in the absence of clear irrefutable evidence of Palestine’s existence as a state and taking into account the lack of an international consensus in this regard, both quantitative and qualitative, the Court cannot assert that there is such a state at this point in time.  (/s/  Professor Malcolm N Shaw QC)
> https://www.icc-cpi.int/CourtRecords/CR2020_01017.PDF
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:


Are you saying that the Palestinians cannot be aggressive because they are not a state.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You twist commentary around like a pretzel.



RoccoR said:


> the Arab Palestinians cannot invoke a right of any kind, at the expense of a right of another.





P F Tinmore said:


> Whose rights would the Palestinians violate and what rights would that be?


*(COMMENT)*

The "Rights" that you like to lean upon are spread across a wide range of international conventions _(observance of human rights, freedoms, humanitarian, legal and political)_.  But in general, we discuss the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (CESCR).; assuming we are not directly engaged in a discussion about sets of Conventions relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Armed Conflicts at Sea, Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, and the Statutes of the various International Courts.

These "Rights" apply equally to all signatories that are bound by them; including the Israelis and Palestinians of the disputed territories.




			
				The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy said:
			
		

> Rights are entitlements (not) to perform certain actions, or (not) to be in certain states; or entitlements that others (not) perform certain actions or (not) be in certain states.
> 
> 
> Rights dominate modern understandings of what actions are permissible and which institutions are just. Rights structure the form of governments, the content of laws, and the shape of morality as many now see it. To accept a set of rights is to approve a distribution of freedom and authority, and so to endorse a certain view of what may, must, and must not be done.
> *SOURCE:*  •._First published Mon Dec 19, 2005; substantive revision Mon Feb 24, 2020 •_


​


RoccoR said:


> Again, I never said that the "Arab Palestinians have no rights."





P F Tinmore said:


> You have an excuse for every Israeli violation of Palestinian rights. Your premise is that Israel cannot violate Palestinian rights because they don't have any.


*(COMMENT)*

First, I don't usually discuss "excuses."  I _(quite frequently)_ do discuss the justification, application and the activation of certain "rights" and "obligations."  But I seldom discuss "excuses" _(especially with pro-Arab Palestinians)_.  I cannot recall ever discussing "excuses" in this forum.

Second, I do not recall ever discussing any applications wherein the premise contained: "Palestinian rights because they don't have any."  That would be "invalid" and "unsound."

And in the third place, it is the Arab Palestinians that have systematically and continually whined and complained about the issue of "rights" over the last 100 years (+).  

Israel does not generally discuss accusations and _(so-called)_ violations claims made by the Arab Palestinians.  Israel has, relative to certain complaints and accusations, made factual statements or expressed their intent on specific actions.  But the Israelis generally do not mount a defense as a matter of an open forum.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I can now understand why you have a problem incomprehension.

"Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State: (A/RES/3314 XXIX) Resolution 3314 is NOT a law. It is a signal concept dictionary. Hence it's named/title is* Definition of Aggression.*"​
IF you read it again, you'll see that, by definition, the Arab Palestinians cannot be the victim of aggression because they are NOT a state.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the Palestinians cannot be aggressive because they are not a state.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Aggression would be the use of the IDF against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Palestine IF and Only IF Palestine has established sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence as a State.  




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I can now understand why you have a problem incomprehension.
> 
> "Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State: (A/RES/3314 XXIX) Resolution 3314 is NOT a law. It is a signal concept dictionary. Hence it's named/title is* Definition of Aggression.*"​
> IF you read it again, you'll see that, by definition, the Arab Palestinians cannot be the victim of aggression because they are NOT a state.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the Palestinians cannot be aggressive because they are not a state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Aggression would be the use of the IDF against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the State of Palestine IF and Only IF Palestine has established sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence as a State.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State:





> Are you saying that the Palestinians cannot be aggressive because they are not a state.


I was just jerking your chain because you made a stupid post.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Just as a point of criticism, being opposed to the Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being a "racist idiot."

Just as a point of criticism, being pro-Israeli is not the same thing as being a "racist idiot."



P F Tinmore said:


> Rashida Tlaib


*(COMMENT)*

BUT, the many Arab Palestinians that openly support the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, IS quite similar to being purveyors of violence; Is being similar to the people that spread and promotes the idea that "criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the innocent IS acceptable.  

Being Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being people that follow the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States."  This is especially true in regards to the Arab Palestinian political position that here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.

Being Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being people that follow the covenant to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State.

Yes, the Honorable Rashida Tlaib has many reasons to smile, but being associated with a culture that promotes Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence should not be such a reason.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Just as a point of criticism, being opposed to the Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being a "racist idiot."
> 
> Just as a point of criticism, being pro-Israeli is not the same thing as being a "racist idiot."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rashida Tlaib
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> BUT, the many Arab Palestinians that openly support the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, IS quite similar to being purveyors of violence; Is being similar to the people that spread and promotes the idea that "criminal acts" directed against the US or Israel, intended or calculated to create "terror" in the minds of the innocent IS acceptable.
> 
> Being Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being people that follow the "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States."  This is especially true in regards to the Arab Palestinian political position that here is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> Being Arab Palestinians is not the same thing as being people that follow the covenant to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State.
> 
> Yes, the Honorable Rashida Tlaib has many reasons to smile, but being associated with a culture that promotes Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence should not be such a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Why do you always portray the Palestinians as the aggressors?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, I will admit that under international law, there is an argument to be made that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are NOT aggressors.  But that is based on the technicality that the HoAP is NOT an armed force of a "state."

But it is not inappropriate to portray the HoAP as the entity operating as a Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters and either the armed threat engaged in the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the sovereign Jewish State of Israel.



P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you always portray the Palestinians as the aggressors?


*(COMMENT)*

The HoAP are trying to acquire territory by force.  This is territory that was under the control of some other Arab League authority and abandon to Israeli effective control and resolved by treaty.

I don't "portray the Palestinians as the aggressors."  *They assumed the role of the aggressor*.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Well, I will admit that under international law, there is an argument to be made that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are NOT aggressors.  But that is based on the technicality that the HoAP is NOT an armed force of a "state."
> 
> But it is not inappropriate to portray the HoAP as the entity operating as a Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters and either the armed threat engaged in the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the sovereign Jewish State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you always portray the Palestinians as the aggressors?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The HoAP are trying to acquire territory by force.  This is territory that was under the control of some other Arab League authority and abandon to Israeli effective control and resolved by treaty.
> 
> I don't "portray the Palestinians as the aggressors."  *They assumed the role of the aggressor*.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I like you, Rocco. Your pretzel logic is interesting.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Amal Nassar | The Tent of Nations | Reconciliation and Peacemaking | Graham Joseph Hill*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Angela Davis calls to unite anti-racist struggles for Israeli Apartheid Week 2020


----------



## P F Tinmore

We are a group of young people who willing to show the real face of Gaza through our writings and stories. Despite all obstacles we face, we still have the right to speak, to live and to dream, and we want to tell the world that "we are not numbers".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Angela Davis calls to unite anti-racist struggles for Israeli Apartheid Week 2020



"Unite anti-racist struggle" by alluding to skin-color blood libels against a minority,
to achieve exclusive Arab domination over the entire middle east?

History has not known uglier hypocrites.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza

GAZA, (PIC)

A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.

According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.

The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.

Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.

  Read more at  
Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 24268698, member: 21837"]Angela Davis calls to unite anti-racist struggles for Israeli Apartheid Week 2020






[/QUOTE]

Thats right .,,,, Quote a member of the Black Panther Party.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center



Is the “ Palestinian Info. Center “ unbiased , non racist and impartial?


----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the “ Palestinian Info. Center “ unbiased , non racist and impartial?
Click to expand...


Nope, simply pathological liars...

*Pal. Info Center ridiculed for announcing Grey's Anatomy star as new doctor for Gaza*


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the “ Palestinian Info. Center “ unbiased , non racist and impartial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, simply pathological liars...
> 
> *Pal. Info Center ridiculed for announcing Grey's Anatomy star as new doctor for Gaza*
Click to expand...


Now, THAT is a RIOT !   I’m surprised they didn’t have her killed like that alleged Palestinian “ Medic” who they mourn.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the “ Palestinian Info. Center “ unbiased , non racist and impartial?
Click to expand...

Well, at least you do not get all of the juvenile name calling like you get in pro Israel rags.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian farmer on Thursday morning suffered a bullet injury as he was working his land in the northern Gaza Strip.
> 
> According to media sources, the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) opened machinegun fire at a group of farmers in an agricultural area in Beit Hanoun, north of Gaza, wounding one of them.
> 
> The victim was moderately wounded and rushed to the Indonesia Hospital for medical assistance.
> 
> Despite the renewed ceasefire understandings over Gaza, the Israeli occupation army keeps targeting — sometimes injuring and killing — civilians, farmers and fishermen almost on a daily basis.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian farmer injured by IOF gunfire in northern Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the “ Palestinian Info. Center “ unbiased , non racist and impartial?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, at least you do not get all of the juvenile name calling like you get in pro Israel rags.
Click to expand...


Deflection, as usual    Notice you have nothing to say about their LIE that the FICTIONAL Izzy ( Greys Anatomy “ is a MD in Gaza.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

All this nonsense you raise concerning the application of the "Terrorist" label is just some sort of diversion.  It is no more childish than labeling someone an Arab Palestinian.

*FOR EXAMPLE (but not limited to)*​
◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria of any of the 19 cental international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts, → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.

◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria in the EU Common Position 2001/931/CFSP on the application of specific measures to combat terrorism, → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.

◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria outlined in the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.​


P F Tinmore said:


> Well, at least you do not get all of the juvenile name calling like you get in pro Israel rags.


*(COMMENT)*

While you may try to challenge the nomenclature _(a system for giving names)_ of the "terrorist" → it is simply a "noun" _(other than a pronoun)_ used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things.  

*IF* your only counter is to come-up with "juvenile name-calling" as your best defense, *THEN*, maybe you should revisit your understanding of the meaning as it is being applied.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> All this nonsense you raise concerning the application of the "Terrorist" label is just some sort of diversion.  It is no more childish than labeling someone an Arab Palestinian.
> 
> *FOR EXAMPLE (but not limited to)*​
> ◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria of any of the 19 cental international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts, → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.
> 
> ◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria in the EU Common Position 2001/931/CFSP on the application of specific measures to combat terrorism, → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.
> 
> ◈  *IF* a person or activity meets the criteria outlined in the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of Terrorism (1938), → *THEN* they are correctly labeled as a terrorist personality or activity.​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, at least you do not get all of the juvenile name calling like you get in pro Israel rags.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> While you may try to challenge the nomenclature _(a system for giving names)_ of the "terrorist" → it is simply a "noun" _(other than a pronoun)_ used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things.
> 
> *IF* your only counter is to come-up with "juvenile name-calling" as your best defense, *THEN*, maybe you should revisit your understanding of the meaning as it is being applied.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

That is all well and good but could you be more specific? Just posting a load of stuff that you assume applies is not a strong argument.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

In this regard, the examples I gave were "criteria" and the "application."  These describe actions or events.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is all well and good but could you be more specific? Just posting a load of stuff that you assume applies is not a strong argument.


*(COMMENT)*

On 05 March 2020,  "_The __*Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar* Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel: We Long for Bus Bombings._" 

This is a terrorist event on multiple levels.  It is a violation of:

◈  It is considered under Article 1(a) S/RES/1624 (2005) to be a Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;

◈  It is a violation of the  Articles 19 and 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)
wherein any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; and Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

◈  Customary Law  - Rule 6. Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

◈  International Humanitarian Law Article 51(3) of Additional Protocol I - or - Pursuant to Article 13(3) of Additional Protocol II, civilians are immune from direct attack “unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.”

◈  It calls for the violation of Article 1§6 in the 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings; which specifically defines the bombing of public transporation systems as unlawful in the intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
​This is just one of the recent events which shed light upon the fact that the Arab Palestinians openly tolerate the use of the mass media to promote further violence, to amplify violence and to support the used of violence to further the illegal government agenda to use violence as the preferred solution to political complaints _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_.  The fact that it is open demonstrates that the vast majority of the Arab Palestinians support the terrorist operations that the Al-Quds Al-Youm  (Palestine Islamic Jihad) foster.  It is a violation of the 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Material Support of Terrorism by providing either direct or indirect resources to further their criminal acts.

Anyone that can stand with a straight face and argue that the Arab Palestinian culture does not routinely violate the various aspects that call for peace is simply NOT rational.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> solution to political complaints _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_.


What are those?


----------



## RoccoR

E: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, those are strange ideas for an Arab Palestinian.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> solution to political complaints _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_.
> 
> 
> 
> What are those?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

The general UN membership and _(I'm assuming) _the Arab Palestinians through the PLO under the provisions of A/RES/25/2625 (XXV) can use the UN Internal Justice System in resolving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States in accordance with the Charter.  The Arab Palestinians have, unique to them, the Oslo Accords Process under Article XV, and seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.  OR ---  They could just follow the procedures outline in the Handbook for Dispute Respoultion (1992); like most nations.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> E: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, those are strange ideas for an Arab Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> solution to political complaints _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_.
> 
> 
> 
> What are those?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The general UN membership and _(I'm assuming) _the Arab Palestinians through the PLO under the provisions of A/RES/25/2625 (XXV) can use the UN Internal Justice System in resolving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States in accordance with the Charter.  The Arab Palestinians have, unique to them, the Oslo Accords Process under Article XV, and seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice.  OR ---  They could just follow the procedures outline in the Handbook for Dispute Respoultion (1992); like most nations.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

This appears to be for treaty disputes. There is no treaty.
If there is something in there that would apply to Palestine, please quote and note page number.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> In this regard, the examples I gave were "criteria" and the "application."  These describe actions or events.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is all well and good but could you be more specific? Just posting a load of stuff that you assume applies is not a strong argument.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> On 05 March 2020,  "_The __*Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar* Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel: We Long for Bus Bombings._"
> 
> This is a terrorist event on multiple levels.  It is a violation of:
> 
> ◈  It is considered under Article 1(a) S/RES/1624 (2005) to be a Prohibit by law incitement to commit a terrorist act or acts;
> 
> ◈  It is a violation of the  Articles 19 and 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)
> wherein any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law; and Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.
> 
> ◈  Customary Law  - Rule 6. Civilians are protected against attack, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.
> 
> ◈  International Humanitarian Law Article 51(3) of Additional Protocol I - or - Pursuant to Article 13(3) of Additional Protocol II, civilians are immune from direct attack “unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.”
> 
> ◈  It calls for the violation of Article 1§6 in the 1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings; which specifically defines the bombing of public transporation systems as unlawful in the intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> ​This is just one of the recent events which shed light upon the fact that the Arab Palestinians openly tolerate the use of the mass media to promote further violence, to amplify violence and to support the used of violence to further the illegal government agenda to use violence as the preferred solution to political complaints _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_.  The fact that it is open demonstrates that the vast majority of the Arab Palestinians support the terrorist operations that the Al-Quds Al-Youm  (Palestine Islamic Jihad) foster.  It is a violation of the 1999 International Convention for the Suppression of the Material Support of Terrorism by providing either direct or indirect resources to further their criminal acts.
> 
> Anyone that can stand with a straight face and argue that the Arab Palestinian culture does not routinely violate the various aspects that call for peace is simply NOT rational.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You always assume that the Palestinians are the aggressors. Where do you get that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian family from Bethlehem in 1919


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The good old days are those when there was no Israel to occupy Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Where Should the Birds Fly Film Discussion - Fida Qishta*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

*ICNC interview with Palestinian activist Dr. Mazin Qumsiyeh*

**


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestine under the Israeli occupation is a land where no-one is safe, where every Palestinian is oppressed, terrorized, and exposed to death every day.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"I am Haneen, 22 years old, who is all the time afraid of losing her beloved ones. I do not feel safe in my own country. I fight to survive day by day, since life is never guaranteed in a war zone. You can sleep and the next day, you are not here anymore. My only dream is to be safe in My Own Palestine." - From our Gaza writer, Haneen Jamal AbdAlnabi.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yeah, I have gathered from other discussions that you have an unnecessarily narrow view of what "Treaty" means and how "International Laws" come into being.

I think you have seen and heard this terminology before:  "Legally Binding"



P F Tinmore said:


> This appears to be for treaty disputes. There is no treaty.  If there is something in there that would apply to Palestine, please quote and note page number.


*(REFERENCES)*

◈  Page 126 • Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law
*convention *‘The designation “convention” tends to be *utilized for multilateral treaties of a law-making type.* Illustrative of this tendency are the various Hague … Geneva … Vienna Conventions…. However, … [t]he designation is also used for a wide range of bilateral treaties—for example, consular conventions, [and] double taxation conventions….’: S atow ’ s Guide to Diplomatic Practice (5th ed.), 241–242. That said, art. 38(1)(a) of the Statute of the International Court of Justice refers to treaties , the normal term used, as ‘international conventions, whether general or particular….’ Likewise, art. 2(1)(a) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ) defi nes the term ‘treaty’ as an agreement between States ‘whatever its particular designation’.
​
 ◈  Page 300 • Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law
*International law* may be defined as ‘[T]he standard of conduct, at a given time for states and other entities subject thereto’: Whiteman, Digest of International Law ( 1963 ), Vol. 1, 1.* Or as ‘the body of rules which are legally binding on states in their intercourse with each other *… the International organizations and, to some extent, also individuals may be subjects of rights conferred and duties imposed by international law’:
I Oppenheim 4 . ‘Bentham invented the term “International law” in one of his happiest linguistic
innovations, in his Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation ( 1789 ).  It is especially felicitous because it leads itself easily to derivatives. Perhaps something like “interstatal” would have been more exact. …’: Nussbaum , A Concise History of the Law of Nations (rev. ed.), 136.

 ◈  Article 2 • Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
"Affirming that the rules of customary international law will continue to govern questions not regulated by the provisions of the present Convention:"
(a)* “treaty” means* an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;

*(COMMENT)*

Alternative solutions to peace are never considered inappropriate or inapplicable if they are applied to attain a peaceful outcome.

War and conflict are actions of the last resort; when all other means of peace are exhausted.  And this is commonly accepted by member nations; but, not by Arab Palestinians that have adopted either:

◈  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.

◈  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

◈  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine,​
*(SUMMATION • ∑)*

When the Arab Palestinians adopted these three tenants they abrogated the common agreement among members that:

◈   All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.  _(Article 2§3 UN Charter)_  Thus making it impossible to sign the charter _(in good faith Article 2§2, UN Charter)_ without a major shift in political will and policy.​War, conflict, Armed Struggle, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence can NEVER be a matter of policy, a primary or principle choice for member of the UN under the Charter when peaceful means still exist.  THUS, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations - as a matter of policy - prevent _(by definition)_ "good faith" in the search for peace.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

It is a means of propaganda, in and by itself, is unlawful incitement; not to mention it is inaccurate.



P F Tinmore said:


> *(EXCERPT)*
> "8 members of the Palestinian family of Gaza, Abu Malhous, were massacred during their sleep in their home, when Israel launched airstrikes on their home!"


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis DID NOT "launched airstrikes on their home!"  The Israeli Air Force (IAF) conducted operations against military objectives of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) which by their nature, location, purpose, and use make an effective contribution to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage in the defense if Israeli sovereignty.

Members of the Abu Malhous family were not specific targets, but rather died as a consequence of intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law of either:


The persistent deaths suffered by the innocent Arab Palestinians have been needless and have been avoidable conflict casualties.  The HoAP “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from” IAF counter-strikes constitutes an HoAP war crime in international armed conflicts. _ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii)_.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Yeah, I have gathered from other discussions that you have an unnecessarily narrow view of what "Treaty" means and how "International Laws" come into being.
> 
> I think you have seen and heard this terminology before:  "Legally Binding"
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> This appears to be for treaty disputes. There is no treaty.  If there is something in there that would apply to Palestine, please quote and note page number.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCES)*
> 
> ◈  Page 126 • Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law
> *convention *‘The designation “convention” tends to be *utilized for multilateral treaties of a law-making type.* Illustrative of this tendency are the various Hague … Geneva … Vienna Conventions…. However, … [t]he designation is also used for a wide range of bilateral treaties—for example, consular conventions, [and] double taxation conventions….’: S atow ’ s Guide to Diplomatic Practice (5th ed.), 241–242. That said, art. 38(1)(a) of the Statute of the International Court of Justice refers to treaties , the normal term used, as ‘international conventions, whether general or particular….’ Likewise, art. 2(1)(a) of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties of 23 May 1969 ( 1155 U.N.T.S. 331 ) defi nes the term ‘treaty’ as an agreement between States ‘whatever its particular designation’.
> View attachment 313781​
> ◈  Page 300 • Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law
> *International law* may be defined as ‘[T]he standard of conduct, at a given time for states and other entities subject thereto’: Whiteman, Digest of International Law ( 1963 ), Vol. 1, 1.* Or as ‘the body of rules which are legally binding on states in their intercourse with each other *… the International organizations and, to some extent, also individuals may be subjects of rights conferred and duties imposed by international law’:
> I Oppenheim 4 . ‘Bentham invented the term “International law” in one of his happiest linguistic
> innovations, in his Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation ( 1789 ).  It is especially felicitous because it leads itself easily to derivatives. Perhaps something like “interstatal” would have been more exact. …’: Nussbaum , A Concise History of the Law of Nations (rev. ed.), 136.
> 
> ◈  Article 2 • Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
> "Affirming that the rules of customary international law will continue to govern questions not regulated by the provisions of the present Convention:"
> (a)* “treaty” means* an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law, whether embodied in a single instrument or in two or more related instruments and whatever its particular designation;
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Alternative solutions to peace are never considered inappropriate or inapplicable if they are applied to attain a peaceful outcome.
> 
> War and conflict are actions of the last resort; when all other means of peace are exhausted.  And this is commonly accepted by member nations; but, not by Arab Palestinians that have adopted either:
> 
> ◈  There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈  Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.
> 
> ◈  Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine,​
> *(SUMMATION • ∑)*
> 
> When the Arab Palestinians adopted these three tenants they abrogated the common agreement among members that:
> 
> ◈   All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.  _(Article 2§3 UN Charter)_  Thus making it impossible to sign the charter _(in good faith Article 2§2, UN Charter)_ without a major shift in political will and policy.​War, conflict, Armed Struggle, Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence can NEVER be a matter of policy, a primary or principle choice for member of the UN under the Charter when peaceful means still exist.  THUS, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations - as a matter of policy - prevent _(by definition)_ "good faith" in the search for peace.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WOW, just WOW. Nice duck.

OK, show me one treaty or convention that will allow Israel to conquer or annex Palestinian territory.

I await your duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is a means of propaganda, in and by itself, is unlawful incitement; not to mention it is inaccurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXCERPT)*
> "8 members of the Palestinian family of Gaza, Abu Malhous, were massacred during their sleep in their home, when Israel launched airstrikes on their home!"
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis DID NOT "launched airstrikes on their home!"  The Israeli Air Force (IAF) conducted operations against military objectives of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) which by their nature, location, purpose, and use make an effective contribution to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage in the defense if Israeli sovereignty.
> 
> Members of the Abu Malhous family were not specific targets, but rather died as a consequence of intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law of either:
> View attachment 313799​The persistent deaths suffered by the innocent Arab Palestinians have been needless and have been avoidable conflict casualties.  The HoAP “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from” IAF counter-strikes constitutes an HoAP war crime in international armed conflicts. _ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Civilians (All Palestinians are civilians. They have no military) are only considered combatants when actively engaged in military activity. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids is not a military activity.


RoccoR said:


> War and conflict are actions of the last resort; when all other means of peace are exhausted. And this is commonly accepted by member nations; but, not by Arab Palestinians that have adopted either:
> 
> ◈ There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈ Armed struggle is the only way to* liberate *Palestine.
> 
> ◈ Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the *liberation* of Palestine,


Liberation movements can use all means necessary, including armed struggle.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are the one that just switched subjects.  "The SUBJECT was:  "*solution to political complaints* _(as opposed to the dispute resolution alternatives available)_."



P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, just WOW. Nice duck.
> 
> OK, show me one treaty or convention that will allow Israel to conquer or annex Palestinian territory.
> 
> I await your duck.


*(COMMENT)*

I responded to the question on "Settlement Resolution and Solutions" → and the criticism on → "alternatives." You respond and come back and changed the subject to "annexation" _(treaties or conventions on "acquisition")_.  AND your comeback"  "What are those?"

The annexation of specific territories is done _(usually)_ by treaty → relative to boundaries:

◈  Since the Arab Palestinians are not now, nor have they ever been a nation with the territory over which they had sovereign or otherwise effective control they could not possibly have had any territory taken from them by another nation.  I have no problem suggesting that the question _(your demand)_ is fallacious on its merit.  

◈  Since the Arab Palestinians are not now, attempting to engage any peace process whatever, I have no problem suggesting that the question _(your demand)_ is fallacious on its merit. ​A basic tenant under the Rule of Law is that No contract, binding agreement or treaty on criminal activity is enforceable, sound or valid.  You asking for such an impossibility only demonstrates you are having problems groping with the basics of the issues at hand.   



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, show me one treaty or convention that will allow Israel to conquer or annex Palestinian territory.



Israel doesn't need to "conquer" or "annex" anything,
all is required is to apply sovereignty to territory it is already fully entitled under international law.

Question rather, what binding document ever mentions Arab sovereignty?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, I'll try to explain this one more time.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈ Armed struggle is the only way to* liberate *Palestine.
> 
> ◈ Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the *liberation* of Palestine,​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Liberation movements can use all means necessary, including armed struggle.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

There is NO LAW _(legal and binding)_ that permits or affirms the "use* all means* necessary, including *armed struggle*."  I know this is often recited, but it is a mutilation of the actual source law.

_All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations._​1)  There are a few non-binding resolutions that may allude to such a finding of "armed struggle;" but, none of them are binding in any fashion.

2)  The term "liberate" does not change the basic "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States."​


Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Hamas holds massive military parade in Gaza

Hamas holds Gaza military parade, vows Israel's destruction



P F Tinmore said:


> Civilians (All Palestinians are civilians. They have no military) .



Q. Why the need to lie so often?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, I'll try to explain this one more time.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈ Armed struggle is the only way to* liberate *Palestine.
> 
> ◈ Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the *liberation* of Palestine,​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Liberation movements can use all means necessary, including armed struggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is NO LAW _(legal and binding)_ that permits or affirms the "use* all means* necessary, including *armed struggle*."  I know this is often recited, but it is a mutilation of the actual source law.
> 
> _All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations._​1)  There are a few non-binding resolutions that may allude to such a finding of "armed struggle;" but, none of them are binding in any fashion.
> 
> 2)  The term "liberate" does not change the basic "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States."​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Self defense and liberation are legal.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, show me one treaty or convention that will allow Israel to conquer or annex Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel doesn't need to "conquer" or "annex" anything,
> all is required is to apply sovereignty to territory it is already fully entitled under international law.
> 
> Question rather, what binding document ever mentions Arab sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Which Arabs?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> It is a means of propaganda, in and by itself, is unlawful incitement; not to mention it is inaccurate.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *(EXCERPT)*
> "8 members of the Palestinian family of Gaza, Abu Malhous, were massacred during their sleep in their home, when Israel launched airstrikes on their home!"
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Israelis DID NOT "launched airstrikes on their home!"  The Israeli Air Force (IAF) conducted operations against military objectives of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) which by their nature, location, purpose, and use make an effective contribution to Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence and whose partial or total destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage in the defense if Israeli sovereignty.
> 
> Members of the Abu Malhous family were not specific targets, but rather died as a consequence of intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law of either:
> View attachment 313799​The persistent deaths suffered by the innocent Arab Palestinians have been needless and have been avoidable conflict casualties.  The HoAP “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from” IAF counter-strikes constitutes an HoAP war crime in international armed conflicts. _ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii)_.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Civilians (All Palestinians are civilians. They have no military) are only considered combatants when actively engaged in military activity. Sleeping at home with the wife and kids is not a military activity.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> War and conflict are actions of the last resort; when all other means of peace are exhausted. And this is commonly accepted by member nations; but, not by Arab Palestinians that have adopted either:
> 
> ◈ There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈ Armed struggle is the only way to* liberate *Palestine.
> 
> ◈ Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the *liberation* of Palestine,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Liberation movements can use all means necessary, including armed struggle.
Click to expand...

For the hundredth time, what do the Palestinians do that is considered armed struggle or self defence ???


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> OK, I'll try to explain this one more time.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
> 
> ◈ Armed struggle is the only way to* liberate *Palestine.
> 
> ◈ Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the *liberation* of Palestine,​
> 
> 
> 
> ​Liberation movements can use all means necessary, including armed struggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There is NO LAW _(legal and binding)_ that permits or affirms the "use* all means* necessary, including *armed struggle*."  I know this is often recited, but it is a mutilation of the actual source law.
> 
> _All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations._​1)  There are a few non-binding resolutions that may allude to such a finding of "armed struggle;" but, none of them are binding in any fashion.
> 
> 2)  The term "liberate" does not change the basic "Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States."​
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
Click to expand...



Give me specific examples of where the Palestinians ‘defended’ themselves


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)



P F Tinmore said:


> Self defense and liberation are legal.


*(COMMENT)*

A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.

The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> A basic tenant under the Rule of Law is that No contract, binding agreement or treaty on criminal activity is enforceable, sound or valid. You asking for such an impossibility only demonstrates you are having problems groping with the basics of the issues at hand.


That is why whenever I ask for a treaty you bounce.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)


Except for the Palestinians, of course.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...


“ Borders that Jordan and Egypt had that were not disputed or challenged by the “ International Community?”
 Territory that Jordan formally annexed April 24, 1950??


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
Click to expand...

Haha haha .
No , Palestine does not have international borders. Where’s your link BTW


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha haha .
> No , Palestine does not have international borders. Where’s your link BTW
Click to expand...

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Thanks for asking.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the Palestinians, of course.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

What territorial sovereignty are the Arab Palestinians defending?

IF the Arab Palestinians actually had a territory they once had sovereignty over, THEN terms like "borders," "liberate," and "defend" would be applicable.  But as it stands, even the Arab Palestinians have a difficult time with the question: What territory do they control?  Even the issue of The Gaza Strip is contentious when asked what Palestinian faction has actually placed The Gaza Strip under the authority?  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.


*(COMMENT)*

The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:

*Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:

*Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha haha .
> No , Palestine does not have international borders. Where’s your link BTW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
Click to expand...

You’re welcome. Unfortunately for you , nothing in your links prove that Palestine has international borders . Nice try though. Big fail BTW


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, show me one treaty or convention that will allow Israel to conquer or annex Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel doesn't need to "conquer" or "annex" anything,
> all is required is to apply sovereignty to territory it is already fully entitled under international law.
> 
> Question rather, what binding document ever mentions Arab sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which Arabs?
Click to expand...


I don't know, that's why I keep asking.

What binding document, ever, entitled anyone, to establish Arab sovereignty in the land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?

Nice deflection though.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the Palestinians, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What territorial sovereignty are the Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians actually had a territory they once had sovereignty over, THEN terms like "borders," "liberate," and "defend" would be applicable.  But as it stands, even the Arab Palestinians have a difficult time with the question: What territory do they control?  Even the issue of The Gaza Strip is contentious when asked what Palestinian faction has actually placed The Gaza Strip under the authority?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
Click to expand...

Israel is the nation entitled to those international borders, by definition.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
Click to expand...

Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the Palestinians, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> What territorial sovereignty are the Arab Palestinians defending?
> 
> IF the Arab Palestinians actually had a territory they once had sovereignty over, THEN terms like "borders," "liberate," and "defend" would be applicable.  But as it stands, even the Arab Palestinians have a difficult time with the question: What territory do they control?  Even the issue of The Gaza Strip is contentious when asked what Palestinian faction has actually placed The Gaza Strip under the authority?
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you still pimping Israel's unsubstantiated talking points?
Click to expand...

Are you still pimping Palestine’s unsubstantiated talking points ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense and liberation are legal.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha haha .
> No , Palestine does not have international borders. Where’s your link BTW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re welcome. Unfortunately for you , nothing in your links prove that Palestine has international borders . Nice try though. Big fail BTW
Click to expand...




toastman said:


> You’re welcome. Unfortunately for you , nothing in your links prove that Palestine has international borders .


You have to read the links.


----------



## rylah

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
Click to expand...


When nothing works against facts, all he has left is to hide behind semantics,
will get there very soon at last resort, You'll see.

It's the potato/potatoe argument.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Self-defense is Legal (CHAPTER VII: ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION • Article 51)
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> A liberation is a form of Self-Defense.  The Arab Palestinians in the disputed territories were under Article 77 Trusteeship.
> 
> The problem is → it was the Arab League that acted first and established the initial occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem _(all of which were trustee territories)_.  That makes the Arab League the aggressors as they opened hostilities.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> There is no dispute. Palestine has international borders. They are not disputed by any of their neighbors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha haha .
> No , Palestine does not have international borders. Where’s your link BTW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’re welcome. Unfortunately for you , nothing in your links prove that Palestine has international borders . Nice try though. Big fail BTW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re welcome. Unfortunately for you , nothing in your links prove that Palestine has international borders .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have to read the links.
Click to expand...

For you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
Click to expand...

Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.

The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
Click to expand...


So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.

Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.

Now you start dancing in circles...


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
Click to expand...


Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:

Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia

Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Now you start dancing in circles...
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.


I will need a link for that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
> 
> Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
Click to expand...




toastman said:


> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:


You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
Click to expand...


I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I find it absolutely incredible that you use false and inaccurate information, which is deliberately intended to deceive reader and yet to look authentic.  In context, these are half-truths.  Each has and enforcement period.
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the West Bank and Jerusalem are:
> 
> *Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement (3 April 1949)*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article 3 - *International Boundary →* "The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein."​
> The real truth and boundaries that apply to the Gaza Strip are:
> 
> *Armistice Egyptian-Israel  S/1264/Corr.1 of 23 February 1949*
> See *Article XII § 2*:  "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"
> See the *Peaceful Settlement*:  Article II *→*  "*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is* the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace."​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Now you start dancing in circles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will need a link for that.
Click to expand...


The Covenant of the League of Nations
*ARTICLE 21.*
Nothing in this Covenant shall be deemed to affect the validity of international engagements, such as treaties of arbitration or regional understandings like the Monroe doctrine, for securing the maintenance of peace.

United Nations Charter 
*CHAPTER VIII: REGIONAL ARRANGEMENTS*
Nothing in the present Charter precludes the existence of regional arrangements or agencies for dealing with such matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't be shy to ask further, will be glad to help with your confusion.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
Click to expand...

Those are say so borders. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Why is that? Because we say so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do Israel, Egypt, and Jordan have to do with Palestine's international borders?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Now you start dancing in circles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will need a link for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Covenant of the League of Nations
> *ARTICLE 21.*
> Nothing in this Covenant shall be deemed to affect the validity of international engagements, such as treaties of arbitration or regional understandings like the Monroe doctrine, for securing the maintenance of peace.
> 
> United Nations Charter
> *CHAPTER VIII: REGIONAL ARRANGEMENTS*
> Nothing in the present Charter precludes the existence of regional arrangements or agencies for dealing with such matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Don't be shy to ask further, will be glad to help with your confusion.
Click to expand...

Doesn't mention Israel.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are say so borders. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Why is that? Because we say so.
Click to expand...


Well, that's the only ones with the legal title to "say so".
No other nation was vested with that authority.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are say so borders. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Why is that? Because we say so.
Click to expand...


Again, they are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED. They are not say so borders.

There is a big difference.

Now if only you could provide a link that backs up anything you say.........


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Now you start dancing in circles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will need a link for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Covenant of the League of Nations
> *ARTICLE 21.*
> Nothing in this Covenant shall be deemed to affect the validity of international engagements, such as treaties of arbitration or regional understandings like the Monroe doctrine, for securing the maintenance of peace.
> 
> United Nations Charter
> *CHAPTER VIII: REGIONAL ARRANGEMENTS*
> Nothing in the present Charter precludes the existence of regional arrangements or agencies for dealing with such matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Don't be shy to ask further, will be glad to help with your confusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't mention Israel.
Click to expand...


Your point ?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you got into potato/potatoe argument even sooner then I expcted.
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Now you start dancing in circles...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same UN also draws all of its (limited) authority from the same legal instruments that entitle those borders to the nation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will need a link for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Covenant of the League of Nations
> *ARTICLE 21.*
> Nothing in this Covenant shall be deemed to affect the validity of international engagements, such as treaties of arbitration or regional understandings like the Monroe doctrine, for securing the maintenance of peace.
> 
> United Nations Charter
> *CHAPTER VIII: REGIONAL ARRANGEMENTS*
> Nothing in the present Charter precludes the existence of regional arrangements or agencies for dealing with such matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Don't be shy to ask further, will be glad to help with your confusion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't mention Israel.
Click to expand...


Incorrect, it doesn't mention any Arab nation,
vests all sovereignty with the Jewish Nation, Israel, and no one else.

Otherwise why would you duck my request for a legally binding document mentioning the first?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Those are say so borders*. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. *Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan*.
> 
> Why is that? *Because we say so*.



Oh dear.  You DO realize that is how international law concerning borders between States works, right?  We say so.  We, the Parties involved, create a mutual agreement delineating borders between our two States.  That is literally how it works.  Mutual agreement is the entire basis of relations between States.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.


You put far too much weight on what the territory is "called".  Utterly irrelevant. 

What are the actual relevant pieces here? Do you even know?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *



Yeah, this is a common problem among those pro-Arab Palestinians.  They think that they can ignore the change in the meaning of the nomenclature:  "Palestine"

Since before The Great War _(WWI)_, the territory under the Ottoman Empire that was informally called by the name "Palestine" _(of biblical times)_ was actually not a single political subdivision.  It was a geospatial landscape that stretched across several Sanjaks _(Districts)_ of two different Vilayets _(first-order administrative division, or *province* of the later Ottoman Empire)_.  It was not its own political subdivision.

At the time of the Balfour Declaration _(2 November 1917)_, the phrase "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" was *not actually defined* by borders.  It was assumed to be an undefined plot of land in *Zone "B"* of the _Sykes-Picot Agreement (16 May 1916)_.

By April 1920 and the San Remo Convention, the plot of land _[by then handled through the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)]_ was expressed as the "territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, *within such boundaries as may be fixed by them*" _(the Allied Powers)_.  It was still undefined by boundaries.  

In August 1922, this territory was defined by name as being that land which was within the limits of the Palestine Order in Council: the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, and short titled as → "hereinafter described as Palestine."  But, it was still not totally defined by borders.



toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

By the 1930's, as an outcome of a Joint Surveyor Team, the land parcel that was within the limits of the Palestine Order in Council: the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies was described as:

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

 On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.​Today, the Territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, has changed again.  It is a composite landscape → composed of the Territorial Sovereignty of Israel, territorial Plot of the Gaza Strip which was unilaterally abandoned by the Israelis and left to its own self-determination.  And the composite landscape includes Areas "A" _(full Arab Palestinian civil and security control)_ - "B"_ (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control)_ - "C" _(full Israeli civil and security control)_ and Jerusalem _(part of which is sovereign Israeli Territory)_.

I suspect that our friend P F Tinmore is using some meaning for "Palestine" that simply oversimplifies the area and does not really have a political meaning that is clear cut.  It even takes the _UN Office of Legal Affairs a four-page Memo (2012)_ to explain what the confusion is in the terminology.  But what I gather, the designation of "Palestine" should be used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh , it’s quite simple . They have DECLARED AND INTERNATIONAL borders with Israel, not with Palestine . Simple as that. We’ve proved it to you many times , yet you can’t handle the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Israel claiming borders on land that the UN calls Palestine is an interesting legal concept.
> 
> The US paying Egypt and Jordan billions to accept those borders is another interesting legal concept.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Only two of Israel's five potential land borders are _*internationally recognized*_
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> Since you clearly have trouble reading, I bolded and underlined the words INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is not claiming nothing, two of its borders are INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those are say so borders. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan.
> 
> Why is that? Because we say so.
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *
> View attachment 314164​Yeah, this is a common problem among those pro-Arab Palestinians.  They think that they can ignore the change in the meaning of the nomenclature:  "Palestine"
> 
> Since before The Great War _(WWI)_, the territory under the Ottoman Empire that was informally called by the name "Palestine" _(of biblical times)_ was actually not a single political subdivision.  It was a geospatial landscape that stretched across several Sanjaks _(Districts)_ of two different Vilayets _(first-order administrative division, or *province* of the later Ottoman Empire)_.  It was not its own political subdivision.
> 
> At the time of the Balfour Declaration _(2 November 1917)_, the phrase "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people" was *not actually defined* by borders.  It was assumed to be an undefined plot of land in *Zone "B"* of the _Sykes-Picot Agreement (16 May 1916)_.
> 
> By April 1920 and the San Remo Convention, the plot of land _[by then handled through the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA)]_ was expressed as the "territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, *within such boundaries as may be fixed by them*" _(the Allied Powers)_.  It was still undefined by boundaries.
> 
> In August 1922, this territory was defined by name as being that land which was within the limits of the Palestine Order in Council: the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, and short titled as → "hereinafter described as Palestine."  But, it was still not totally defined by borders.
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are dodging the links in my post. You probably did not read them.
> 
> 
> 
> I did read them. But you are dodging my posts that Israel has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED BORDERS . Palestine does not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> By the 1930's, as an outcome of a Joint Surveyor Team, the land parcel that was within the limits of the Palestine Order in Council: the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies was described as:
> 
> Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.
> 
> On the south it is bounded by Egyptian and Saudi Arabian territory, on the east by Trans-Jordan, on the north by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean.​Today, the Territory, formerly under the Mandate for Palestine, has changed again.  It is a composite landscape → composed of the Territorial Sovereignty of Israel, territorial Plot of the Gaza Strip which was unilaterally abandoned by the Israelis and left to its own self-determination.  And the composite landscape includes Areas "A" _(full Arab Palestinian civil and security control)_ - "B"_ (Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control)_ - "C" _(full Israeli civil and security control)_ and Jerusalem _(part of which is sovereign Israeli Territory)_.
> 
> I suspect that our friend P F Tinmore is using some meaning for "Palestine" that simply oversimplifies the area and does not really have a political meaning that is clear cut.  It even takes the _UN Office of Legal Affairs a four-page Memo (2012)_ to explain what the confusion is in the terminology.  But what I gather, the designation of "Palestine" should be used in place of the "Palestine Liberation Organization" (PLO).
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Thank you for this post Rocco. I think I speak for all of us when I say we appreciate your knowledge.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Those are say so borders*. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. *Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan*.
> 
> Why is that? *Because we say so*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  You DO realize that is how international law concerning borders between States works, right?  We say so.  We, the Parties involved, create a mutual agreement delineating borders between our two States.  That is literally how it works.  Mutual agreement is the entire basis of relations between States.
Click to expand...

So, where is that treaty between those two states?

Link?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  et al,

*BLUF: * •  Annex 1, Charter of the League of Arab States 1945  •
Excerpt:
(1) Annex Regarding Palestine Since the termination of the last great war the rule of the Ottoman Empire over the Arab countries, among them Palestine, which bad become detached from that Empire, has come to an end. *She has come to be autonomous, not subordinate to any other state.*  The Treaty of Lausanne proclaimed that her future was to be settled by the parties concerned.  However, even though she was as yet unable to control her own affairs, the Covenant of the League (of Nations) in 1919 made provision for a regime based upon recognition of her independence.  Her international existence and independence in the legal sense cannot, therefore, be questioned, any more than could the independence of the other Arab countries.* Although the outward manifestations of this independence have remained obscured for reasons beyond her control, this should not be allowed to interfere with her participation in the work of the Council of the League.*  The states signatory to the Pact of the Arab League are therefore of the opinion that, considering the special circumstances of Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence, the Council of the League should take charge of the selection of an Arab representative from Palestine to take part in its work. 



P F Tinmore said:


> So, where is that treaty between those two states?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

As you can see from the BLUF, even the "ARAB LEAGUE" questions the nature of "Palestine."  The members of the Arab League are bound together by Charter as if it were a Treaty.  This is similar to the relationship between the members of the UN and the Charter.

The question is:  "Can Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence?"  I think after seven decades, the answer is a categorical "NO."




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * •  Annex 1, Charter of the League of Arab States 1945  •
> Excerpt:
> (1) Annex Regarding Palestine Since the termination of the last great war the rule of the Ottoman Empire over the Arab countries, among them Palestine, which bad become detached from that Empire, has come to an end. *She has come to be autonomous, not subordinate to any other state.*  The Treaty of Lausanne proclaimed that her future was to be settled by the parties concerned.  However, even though she was as yet unable to control her own affairs, the Covenant of the League (of Nations) in 1919 made provision for a regime based upon recognition of her independence.  Her international existence and independence in the legal sense cannot, therefore, be questioned, any more than could the independence of the other Arab countries.* Although the outward manifestations of this independence have remained obscured for reasons beyond her control, this should not be allowed to interfere with her participation in the work of the Council of the League.*  The states signatory to the Pact of the Arab League are therefore of the opinion that, considering the special circumstances of Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence, the Council of the League should take charge of the selection of an Arab representative from Palestine to take part in its work.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, where is that treaty between those two states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As you can see from the BLUF, even the "ARAB LEAGUE" questions the nature of "Palestine."  The members of the Arab League are bound together by Charter as if it were a Treaty.  This is similar to the relationship between the members of the UN and the Charter.
> 
> The question is:  "Can Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence?"  I think after seven decades, the answer is a categorical "NO."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Palestine has been under military occupation since its inception. This illegal external interference has prevented them from exercising their rights as a people.

States do not disappear when they are under occupation.

Occupations do not acquire territory or sovereignty. Peoples rights are not negated by occupation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Nonsense



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has been under military occupation since its inception. This illegal external interference has prevented them from exercising their rights as a people.


*(COMMENT)*

You supposition here is completely wrong.  The handover by The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) to the Mandated Civil Administration in July 1920, marked the end of military occupation _(alla *Article 42 • "placed under the authority of the hostile army*")_.  The Territory, formerly under the Mandate had NOT come under occupation again until → the invasion by the Arab League in 1948.

When do you consider the "inception of Palestine" to be?  I follow the timeline specified by the *UN Legal Affairs Office* as outlined in *Posting #15154* of this discussion. Pray tell, what fairy tale are you following?



P F Tinmore said:


> States do not disappear when they are under occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that is debatable.   The term "occupation" is a relatively new term to be defined by international law.  And more than have of the nations in Europe and the Middle East have changed politically or undergone sovereign changes since the Fall of Constantinople.  Hell, by the conclusion of The Great War, four of the major Empires fell _(German Empire, Ottoman Empire, Australia-Hungary Empire, and Imperial Russia)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> Occupations do not acquire territory or sovereignty. Peoples rights are not negated by occupation.


*(COMMENT)*

The "*Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*" and the "*Civil and Political Rights of the People*" are two entirely different sets of concepts. And "Prescription" is yet, a third concept to be considered excluding "_Terra Nullius_."  In the case of the abandonment of the West Bank and Jerusalem by the Jordanians, there was no Arab Palestinian government in hand and the effective control over those areas was Israeli.
*
(REALITY)*

It is important that the state of control and operation over the territory under discussion be understood as they actually exist with the Region of Conflict (RoC).  In general, that would include The West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.   It is essential to understand the conditions as they actually are → and NOT some imaginary state of affairs.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Those are say so borders*. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. *Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan*.
> 
> Why is that? *Because we say so*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  You DO realize that is how international law concerning borders between States works, right?  We say so.  We, the Parties involved, create a mutual agreement delineating borders between our two States.  That is literally how it works.  Mutual agreement is the entire basis of relations between States.
Click to expand...

So it would be OK for Germany and Spain to agree to have a mutual border in the middle of France? That is an agreement between two states.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * •  Annex 1, Charter of the League of Arab States 1945  •
> Excerpt:
> (1) Annex Regarding Palestine Since the termination of the last great war the rule of the Ottoman Empire over the Arab countries, among them Palestine, which bad become detached from that Empire, has come to an end. *She has come to be autonomous, not subordinate to any other state.*  The Treaty of Lausanne proclaimed that her future was to be settled by the parties concerned.  However, even though she was as yet unable to control her own affairs, the Covenant of the League (of Nations) in 1919 made provision for a regime based upon recognition of her independence.  Her international existence and independence in the legal sense cannot, therefore, be questioned, any more than could the independence of the other Arab countries.* Although the outward manifestations of this independence have remained obscured for reasons beyond her control, this should not be allowed to interfere with her participation in the work of the Council of the League.*  The states signatory to the Pact of the Arab League are therefore of the opinion that, considering the special circumstances of Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence, the Council of the League should take charge of the selection of an Arab representative from Palestine to take part in its work.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, where is that treaty between those two states?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As you can see from the BLUF, even the "ARAB LEAGUE" questions the nature of "Palestine."  The members of the Arab League are bound together by Charter as if it were a Treaty.  This is similar to the relationship between the members of the UN and the Charter.
> 
> The question is:  "Can Palestine and *until that country can effectively exercise* its independence?"  I think after seven decades, the answer is a categorical "NO."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Although the outward manifestations of this independence have remained obscured for reasons beyond her control,


Indeed, military occupation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> The "*Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty*" and the "*Civil and Political Rights of the People*" are two entirely different sets of concepts. And "Prescription" is yet, a third concept to be considered excluding "_Terra Nullius_." In the case of the abandonment of the West Bank and Jerusalem by the Jordanians, there was no Arab Palestinian government in hand and the effective control over those areas was Israeli.
> 
> *(REALITY)*
> 
> It is important that the state of control and operation over the territory under discussion be understood as they actually exist with the Region of Conflict (RoC). In general, that would include The West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. It is essential to understand the conditions as they actually are → and NOT some imaginary state of affairs.


Completely irrelevant to my post.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Well, that is debatable. The term "occupation" is a relatively new term to be defined by international law. And more than have of the nations in Europe and the Middle East have changed politically or undergone sovereign changes since the Fall of Constantinople. Hell, by the conclusion of The Great War, four of the major Empires fell _(German Empire, Ottoman Empire, Australia-Hungary Empire, and Imperial Russia)_.


You are just trying to confuse the issue.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Those are say so borders*. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. *Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan*.
> 
> Why is that? *Because we say so*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  You DO realize that is how international law concerning borders between States works, right?  We say so.  We, the Parties involved, create a mutual agreement delineating borders between our two States.  That is literally how it works.  Mutual agreement is the entire basis of relations between States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it would be OK for Germany and Spain to agree to have a mutual border in the middle of France? That is an agreement between two states.
Click to expand...


Why do you bother to post this sort of utter nonsense?  Obviously, in that case, France would be one of the Parties involved.  This isn't terribly difficult.  

You have to ask yourself WHY 'Palestine' has not been a Party, until, arguably, sometime between 1988 and 1995.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

There are certainly those instances when I don't think were have the same book - in the same language, let alone finding we are on the same page.



EXCERPT said:


>


*(REFERENCE)*



*(COMMENT)*

Sometimes, I just fail to understand how you can ignore the obvious.  But you have used this response of irrelevance so often, I am going to take each new one to task.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There are certainly those instances when I don't think were have the same book - in the same language, let alone finding we are on the same page.
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPT said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 314371​
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> View attachment 314375
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Sometimes, I just fail to understand how you can ignore the obvious.  But you have used this response of irrelevance so often, I am going to take each new one to task.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*


(2) Prescription 
 A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription. 











						Sign in - Google Accounts
					





					sites.google.com
				




Thanks for the link.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Those are say so borders*. Those peace agreements were not brokered by the UN they were brokered by the US.
> 
> Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The Golan is part of Israel. *Israel has borders with Egypt and Jordan*.
> 
> Why is that? *Because we say so*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.  You DO realize that is how international law concerning borders between States works, right?  We say so.  We, the Parties involved, create a mutual agreement delineating borders between our two States.  That is literally how it works.  Mutual agreement is the entire basis of relations between States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it would be OK for Germany and Spain to agree to have a mutual border in the middle of France? That is an agreement between two states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you bother to post this sort of utter nonsense?  Obviously, in that case, France would be one of the Parties involved.  This isn't terribly difficult.
> 
> You have to ask yourself WHY 'Palestine' has not been a Party, until, arguably, sometime between 1988 and 1995.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Obviously, in that case, France would be one of the Parties involved.


Why?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*How a Palestinian shoemaker started the West Bank’s only mask factory overnight*

              What started as an experiment days after the coronavirus outbreak in the West Bank is now a factory producing thousands of masks a day.

Two days after the outbreak of the novel coronavirus in Bethlehem, Amjad Zaghir, a shoe factory owner from the Palestinian city of Hebron, realized the West Bank will soon run out of face masks. Less than three weeks later, he is now the only mask manufacturer there.

Zaghir’s factory, which he started overnight, now produces thousands of masks a day, and has made him a national hero for helping Palestinians protect themselves from the virus.









						How a shoemaker started the West Bank's only mask factory overnight
					

What started as an experiment days after the coronavirus outbreak in the West Bank is now a factory producing thousands of masks a day.




					www.972mag.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.



P F Tinmore said:


> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*


*(COMMENT)*

The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.

"This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
The former sovereign was:

◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.

I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.

BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Looking Forward: The Work of Interfaith Peace-Builders*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Demonstration in Ramallah After Israeli Attack on Humanitarian Flotilla to Gaza

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel/Palestine in The Age of Obama and The Tea Party: What Does the Future Hold?

*


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,



P F Tinmore said:


> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.


*(COMMENT)*

This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.




P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.


*(COMMENT)*

You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.

In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.

Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159​State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of​kingship.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170​This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.​
Alternative perspectives: 

Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563​*sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.​Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of​supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].​Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.​​Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820​*sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:​​(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;​​(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or​​(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.​



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.
> 
> In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159​State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of​kingship.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170​This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.​
> Alternative perspectives:
> 
> Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563​*sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.​Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of​supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].​Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.​​Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820​*sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:​​(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;​​(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or​​(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.


*(COMMENT)*

This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
\
OK, so which one does Israel use?


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Israel is not, at the moment, trying to adhere to a specific regiment or protocol.  It is maintaining such control as to protect the territorial integrity and citizenry of the State of Israel from the activities of the various Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  The maintenance of the territorial integrity _(Article 2__§4 of the UN Charter proscribed the threat or use of force against, inter alia , ‘the territorial integrity)_ is essential to the safety of the Jewish National Home, as well as, the protection of the most advanced nation in the realm of Human Development within the entire region. Those hostile and pro-Palestinian influences attempting to injure the State of Israel are, in the long run, attempting to undermine the entire Middle East and North Africa Region.




P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so which one does Israel use?


*(COMMENT)*

Israel appears to be adopting a complex policy of:

◈  Working in its own best interest _(as do the members of the Quartet)_.​​◈  Attempting to further efforts that will ultimately benefit regional neighbors.​
The current direction of Israeli Policy and intent "might be" interpreted as a means of national defense and not solely as a tool of territorial acquisition _(in the face of an Arab Palestine Regime that has adopted no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations as a diplomatic policy)_.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Israel is not, at the moment, trying to adhere to a specific regiment or protocol.  It is maintaining such control as to protect the territorial integrity and citizenry of the State of Israel from the activities of the various Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  The maintenance of the territorial integrity _(Article 2__§4 of the UN Charter proscribed the threat or use of force against, inter alia , ‘the territorial integrity)_ is essential to the safety of the Jewish National Home, as well as, the protection of the most advanced nation in the realm of Human Development within the entire region. Those hostile and pro-Palestinian influences attempting to injure the State of Israel are, in the long run, attempting to undermine the entire Middle East and North Africa Region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel appears to be adopting a complex policy of:
> 
> ◈  Working in its own best interest _(as do the members of the Quartet)_.​​◈  Attempting to further efforts that will ultimately benefit regional neighbors.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

WOW, what a duck!


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,


P F Tinmore said:


> WOW, what a duck!


*(QUESTION)*

Assuming that any common diplomatic or political common ground can be achieved, what posture would you adopt in the face of a hostile neighbor that has decided to maintain a position of "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW, what a duck!
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Assuming that any common diplomatic or political common ground can be achieved, what posture would you adopt in the face of a hostile neighbor that has decided to maintain a position of "no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Why would they have that position?

BTW, nice deflection.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Looking Forward: The Work of Interfaith Peace-Builders*



How do you know there's no truth in that forum?

Notice how its all one sided.
Notice how real questions about interfaith relations are avoided.
Notice how there's not a single non-Jewish participant critical of his own group.

Everything is oversimplified, void of real substance, out of fear to face any hard questions.

*Truth does not even remotely concern them.*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.
> 
> In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159​State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of​kingship.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170​This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.​
> Alternative perspectives:
> 
> Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563​*sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.​Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of​supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].​Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.​​Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820​*sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:​​(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;​​(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or​​(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> \
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so which one does Israel use?



*Liberation.*
Or in the language of international law - *'Re-Constitution'*.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
Click to expand...


It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
let alone sovereign nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
Click to expand...

Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.
> 
> In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159​State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of​kingship.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170​This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.​
> Alternative perspectives:
> 
> Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563​*sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.​Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of​supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].​Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.​​Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820​*sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:​​(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;​​(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or​​(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> \
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Liberation.*
> Or in the language of international law - *'Re-Constitution'*.
Click to expand...


Well Tinnie,
it would be a great surprise if you were actually capable of addressing anything with substance,
rather than stubbornly avoid facing challenging facts you can't compute.

So predictable, pathetic really.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.
> 
> In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159​State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of​kingship.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170​This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.​​Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108​The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.​
> Alternative perspectives:
> 
> Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563​*sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.​Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of​supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].​Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.​​Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820​*sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:​​(1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;​​(2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or​​(3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.​
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> \
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Liberation.*
> Or in the language of international law - *'Re-Constitution'*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Tinnie,
> it would be a great surprise if you were actually capable of addressing anything with substance,
> rather than stubbornly avoid facing challenging facts you can't compute.
> 
> So predictable, pathetic really.
Click to expand...

You need to post something of substance before I can respond in kind.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
Click to expand...


Yes, it takes much more than that.
Like its own national identity for example.

A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation, 
don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.

Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.

Simple as that.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are confusing the context in the meaning.  BTW, many words have multiple meanings depending on the context and usage.
> 
> In a monarchy, the "sovereign" is essentially the King.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 159
> State immunity is also known as sovereign immunity, reflecting its origins in the sanctity of
> kingship.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 170
> This follows Article 11 of the European Convention and the general trend of state practice. Under the UN Convention, the European Convention and the UK and US Acts, the tort exception applies even when the act was ostensibly performed in exercise of sovereign authority.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108
> There could, however, be occasions when an overseas territory has concluded a treaty in its own name and without any authority from the parent state.  Whether the territory’s lack of competence to conclude the treaty was manifest will depend on the circumstances, but a foreign ministry should be able to distinguish overseas territories from sovereign states.
> 
> Handbook of International Law (Oxford) Page 108
> The establishment of diplomatic relations and permanent diplomatic missions requires the consent of both states (Article 2). They must be sovereign states and must recognise each other as such.  Recognition is usually soon followed by the establishment of diplomatic relations, and sometimes the establishment of relations constitutes the act of recognition.
> 
> Alternative perspectives:
> 
> Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law • Page 563
> *sovereignty* • ‘Sovereignty as a principle of international law must be sharply distinguished from other related uses of the term: sovereignty in its internal aspects and political sovereignty.
> Sovereignty in its internal aspects is concerned with the identity of the bearer of
> supreme authority within a State. This may be an individual or a collective unit. . . . In international relations, the scope of political sovereignty is still less limited [than that within a State].
> Political sovereignty is the necessary concomitant of the lack of an effective international order and the constitutional weaknesses of the international superstructures which have so far been grafted on the law of unorganized international society. . . . [D]octrinal attempts at spiriting away sovereignty must remain meaningless.
> 
> Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage • Page 820
> *sovereignty;* sovranty. The former spelling is preferred. Brierly rightly calls sovereignty a “much abused word.” J.L. Brierly, The Law of Nations 150 (5th ed. 1955). It has three primary senses:
> 
> (1) “supreme dominion, authority, or rule”;
> 
> (2) “the position, rank, or control of a supreme ruler, such as a monarch, or controlling power, such as a democratically formed government”; or
> 
> (3) “a territory under the rule of a sovereign, or existing as an independent state.” To the international lawyer, sovereignty “is not a metaphysical concept, nor is it part of the essence of statehood; it is merely a term which designates an aggregate of particular and very extensive claims that states habitually make for themselves in their relations with other states [sense (1)]. To the extent that sovereignty had come to imply that there is something inherent in the nature of states that makes it impossible for them to be subjected to law, it is a false doctrine which the facts of international relations do not support.” Id. at 48-49.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is simply not true.  And I've sent the link many times that explain the various alternatives.
> \
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, so which one does Israel use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Liberation.*
> Or in the language of international law - *'Re-Constitution'*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Tinnie,
> it would be a great surprise if you were actually capable of addressing anything with substance,
> rather than stubbornly avoid facing challenging facts you can't compute.
> 
> So predictable, pathetic really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to post something of substance before I can respond in kind.
Click to expand...


If international law is not enough a substance in your view,
then why the need to so desperately rush to deny it?

But again, you're so predictable in self contradiction, it pathetic.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty.


Do you mean like the United States?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Oh man, you simply had a reading comprehension problem.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> (2) Prescription
> A title by prescription to be valid under International Law, it is required that the length of time must be adequate, and the public and peaceful exercise of _de facto_ sovereignty must be continuous.  The Possession of Claimant State must be public, in the sense that all interested States can be made aware of it. * It must be peaceful and uninterrupted *in the sense that the former sovereign must consent to the new sovereign.  Such consent may be express or implied from all the relevant circumstances.  *This means that protests of whatever means by the former sovereign may completely block any claim of prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sign in - Google Accounts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The key phrase that you need to re-read and comprehend.
> 
> "This means that protests of whatever means by the* former sovereign *may completely block any claim of prescription."​
> The former sovereign was:
> 
> ◈  The Jordanians​​◈  Before that: the Ottomans​​◈  Before that:  Mamluk (Arab Slaves)​​◈  Before that:  Crusaders​
> Arab Palestinians had not maintained sovereignty over the disputed territories for more than a since the time of the crusaders _(nearly a thousand years ago)_.   No former sovereign, except the Jordanians, have expressed and objection.  And even the Jordanians have a peace treaty over the territory with the Israelis.
> 
> I don't think the Israelis will use the concept of "prescription" as a basis for an explanation.  What I think is that it is important to get the information out there, that this entire propaganda line on the matter of Acquisition is flawed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Absent a treaty, conquest is the only option left.
> 
> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It takes much more than casual presence of random individuals to constitute a 'people',
> let alone sovereign nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like everyone having the same citizenship and living in the same place?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it takes much more than that.
> Like its own national identity for example.
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty. Merely subjects of the sovereign nation.
> 
> Turkish and Armenian citizens of Greece or Ireland - do not suffice separate sovereignty.
> 
> Simple as that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> A mixed multitude of people being citizens of a defined nation,
> don't constitute a separate sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you mean like the United States?
Click to expand...


Of course not, because that's neither the type of a state Jewish nationalism was seeking.
Nor what Arab nationalism pretends to.

US is not a nation state.
The comparison is irrelevant in given situation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore, 
frankly I find it staggering how one can invest so much time and energy in a subject,
yet lack elementary understanding about it.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  False or Inappropriate analogy.



P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean like the United States?


*(COMMENT)*

Governments that are formed through self-determination paint their own and unique face.  They are what they are because of self-determination.  The face and nature of America is different because the efforts behind their self-determination were different, from the pressures and efforts which formed the Jewish National Home encompassed within the State of Israel.

When you draw a comparison, you must consider the number of times the Arab Palestinians rejected the invitation to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.  The difference between the Jewish People that formed Israel and the Arab Palestinians is that the Jewish People had self-determination - were as - the Arab Palestinian will to forge a government was weak and misdirected its efforts _(no self-determination)_.

The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what is written on paper.  The paper has no will or capacity of its own.    The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what any resolution might describe it as.  "Self-determination" is what a group of people has when they come together and work together for a come creation.  Even today, there are so many factions of Arab Palestinians, it is difficult to tell what the common goal is; or if there is a common goal.

Example:

_You are of a faction that believes the Arab Palestinians should have the territory from the "River to the Sea."  There is a different faction that claims the territory encompassed by the old 1949 Armistice Line as maintained up to 4 June 1967.  _​
I often hear the Arab Palestinians complain about these border issues.  But I don't see them agreeing on a common goal.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  False or Inappropriate analogy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like the United States?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Governments that are formed through self-determination paint their own and unique face.  They are what they are because of self-determination.  The face and nature of America is different because the efforts behind their self-determination were different, from the pressures and efforts which formed the Jewish National Home encompassed within the State of Israel.
> 
> When you draw a comparison, you must consider the number of times the Arab Palestinians rejected the invitation to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.  The difference between the Jewish People that formed Israel and the Arab Palestinians is that the Jewish People had self-determination - were as - the Arab Palestinian will to forge a government was weak and misdirected its efforts _(no self-determination)_.
> 
> The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what is written on paper.  The paper has no will or capacity of its own.    The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what any resolution might describe it as.  "Self-determination" is what a group of people has when they come together and work together for a come creation.  Even today, there are so many factions of Arab Palestinians, it is difficult to tell what the common goal is; or if there is a common goal.
> 
> Example:
> 
> _You are of a faction that believes the Arab Palestinians should have the territory from the "River to the Sea."  There is a different faction that claims the territory encompassed by the old 1949 Armistice Line as maintained up to 4 June 1967.  _​
> I often hear the Arab Palestinians complain about these border issues.  But I don't see them agreeing on a common goal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


The 'but but but Israel' excuse 

in 3...2...1...


----------



## rylah

What I mean to say here ^^^^
Arab Palestinian nationalism is purely a reactionary movement,
void of any independent  motivation or distinct identity behind it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  False or Inappropriate analogy.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean like the United States?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Governments that are formed through self-determination paint their own and unique face.  They are what they are because of self-determination.  The face and nature of America is different because the efforts behind their self-determination were different, from the pressures and efforts which formed the Jewish National Home encompassed within the State of Israel.
> 
> When you draw a comparison, you must consider the number of times the Arab Palestinians rejected the invitation to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.  The difference between the Jewish People that formed Israel and the Arab Palestinians is that the Jewish People had self-determination - were as - the Arab Palestinian will to forge a government was weak and misdirected its efforts _(no self-determination)_.
> 
> The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what is written on paper.  The paper has no will or capacity of its own.    The "Right of Self-Determination" is not what any resolution might describe it as.  "Self-determination" is what a group of people has when they come together and work together for a come creation.  Even today, there are so many factions of Arab Palestinians, it is difficult to tell what the common goal is; or if there is a common goal.
> 
> Example:
> 
> _You are of a faction that believes the Arab Palestinians should have the territory from the "River to the Sea."  There is a different faction that claims the territory encompassed by the old 1949 Armistice Line as maintained up to 4 June 1967.  _​
> I often hear the Arab Palestinians complain about these border issues.  But I don't see them agreeing on a common goal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the Arab Palestinian will to forge a government was weak and misdirected its efforts _(no self-determination)_.


The right to self determination without external interference.

They did not say "without external interference" because they had some extra ink they had to use up. The Palestinians have not experienced a single day without external interference to this day. The goal of that external interference is to prohibit self determination.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  The phrase "without external interference" is NOT found in the original source law _(the UN Charter)_.



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to self-determination without external interference.
> 
> They did not say "without external interference" because they had some extra ink they had to use up. The Palestinians have not experienced a single day without external interference to this day. The goal of that external interference is to prohibit self-determination.


*(COMMENT)*

Some 40 years ago, one of the non-binding (not law) GA Resolutions A/RES/35/169(A-E) 15 December 1980 reaffirmed the _(so-called)_ inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, except that it added the phrase _(in paragraph 6a)_ "without external interference." 

It is important to remember that no culture in the world develops without some sort of interaction from external influence.   It would be absurd to make it illegal for one country to influence another country.  And, as some have suggested, the current charter has, for seventy years, allowed countries to engage in "collective self-defense."

It is reasonably clear that the principle of equal rights and self-determination applies to all peoples _(Israeli and Arab Palestinian alike)_ with each having the right to determine, "without external interference," _*(but not prohibiting external assistance)*_ their political status [_(the Jewish people creating  Israel with US assistance)(the Arab Palestinians using external Arab League Forces to interfere with the creation of Israel)_] and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development.    



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE: Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  The phrase "without external interference" is NOT found in the original source law _(the UN Charter)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to self-determination without external interference.
> 
> They did not say "without external interference" because they had some extra ink they had to use up. The Palestinians have not experienced a single day without external interference to this day. The goal of that external interference is to prohibit self-determination.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Some 40 years ago, one of the non-binding (not law) GA Resolutions A/RES/35/169(A-E) 15 December 1980 reaffirmed the _(so-called)_ inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, except that it added the phrase _(in paragraph 6a)_ "without external interference."
> 
> It is important to remember that no culture in the world develops without some sort of interaction from external influence.   It would be absurd to make it illegal for one country to influence another country.  And, as some have suggested, the current charter has, for seventy years, allowed countries to engage in "collective self-defense."
> 
> It is reasonably clear that the principle of equal rights and self-determination applies to all peoples _(Israeli and Arab Palestinian alike)_ with each having the right to determine, "without external interference," _*(but not prohibiting external assistance)*_ their political status [_(the Jewish people creating  Israel with US assistance)(the Arab Palestinians using external Arab League Forces to interfere with the creation of Israel)_] and to pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.

The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, the people are sovereign not governments or states.



Oh sure, this is a nice little romantic idea, but its legally meaningless.  The term "the people" is a concept with no legal application.  "The people" are not able to establish contracts or treaties or legal relationships except through the process of creating a separate and distinct legal entity, such as a State.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  You have this all screwed-up.



P F Tinmore said:


> The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.
> 
> The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.


*(COMMENT)*

The "Right of  Self-Determination" has no territorial limitation and no citizenship criteria.

If the British Citizens in France want to establish a new self-governing institution, they have the right to try.  It would _(most probably)_ by means of "cession."   An "Act of Cession" of territory may be voluntary, as a result of mutual exchange, - or - it may be forced as an outcome of a civil war _(examples but not limited to)_.  Cession is one of the five major methods in the *Acquisition of Territorial Sovereignty.*




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.
> 
> The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.



Why do the French have the right to self determination in France?  What gives them that right?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Issam Yamani and Loubna Qutami - Return and Liberation: Conference of Palestinian Shatat

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza riot!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli settlers destroy hundreds of trees in Palestinian villages.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Every morning is a new fight for Palestinians, so they just have to remind themselves that Palestine is theirs and occupation must perish.


----------



## RoccoR

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, et al,

So tell me "P F Tinmore!"  What is it that you think these Police Officers are doing (specifically).  Obviously this is a non-lethal action.

Give me some context...  

Are you praising the action of the officers? --- or --- Are you protesting their action?  Tell us why!




Most Respectfully,
R



P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *




Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Every morning is a new fight for Palestinians, so they just have to remind themselves that Palestine is theirs and occupation must perish.



Maybe they need to work on creating a ritual.  You know, like a celebration commemorating themes of freedom and redemption and self-determination.  It could be in the spring.  

Hey, I have an idea.  They could maybe even introduce some ritual language.  What do you think?  Maybe:  "Le-shanah haba'ah b'Yerushalayim".  

Yeah, that could work.


----------



## rylah

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every morning is a new fight for Palestinians, so they just have to remind themselves that Palestine is theirs and occupation must perish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they need to work on creating a ritual.  You know, like a celebration commemorating themes of freedom and redemption and self-determination.  It could be in the spring.
> 
> Hey, I have an idea.  They could maybe even introduce some ritual language.  What do you think?  Maybe:  "Le-shanah haba'ah b'Yerushalayim".
> 
> Yeah, that could work.
Click to expand...


Or they can start by learning how to pronounce '*P*-alestine' first.
I hear they're getting taught that in the US.

Who knows, 
maybe in another 100 years, or so, most eventually learn.


----------



## Mindful

Prof. Eyal Zisser thinks the coronavirus threat may bring Israel and the Palestinians closer together. His argument – which has not convinced me – is here.

The Gaza Strip faces a very problematic combination of third-world healthcare, one of the highest population densities in the world, and difficulty in enforcing instructions issued by the Palestinian Ministry of HealthThe Palestinians are being pushed into Israel’s arms by the arrival of the epidemic, since they are entirely dependent on the medical aid Israel provides them with to stop the spread of the virus. But the coronavirus crisis has turned the spotlight on a familiar and complicated truth, which many still deny — that it is difficult and maybe impossible to separate the Palestinians and the Israelis, and that the 2005 disengagement from Gaza did not truly “disengage” Gaza from Israel.

Day-to-day life in Judea and Samaria, where Jewish and Palestinian communities exist side by side, along with the fact that tens of thousands of Palestinians make their living in Israel, make any attempt to separate the two populations in an attempt to stop the virus impractical. But *Gaza, too, which is supposedly cut off from Israel, is becoming Israel’s responsibility since Hamas can fire on Sderot or Tel Aviv but cannot care for the residents of Gaza in a humanitarian crisis of the kind the world is currently facing.*





__





						In Gaza, Israel Will Be Held Responsible for Keeping the Coronavirus in Check
					

Some 55 Palestinians in the West Bank are currently positive for coronavirus, and last Thursday [March 19] the first two cases were reported in the Gaza Strip -- both Palestinians who returned to Gaza from Pakistan, via Egypt, and are now quarantined at Rafah. Prof. Eyal Zisser thinks the...




					www.jihadwatch.org


----------



## Mindful

^Hamas long ago made its choice. It chose to spend time and money and attention on making life as difficult and dangerous as it could for Israelis. Almost every Friday, for the past two years, it has staged the Great March of Return to try to breach Israel’s security fence. The script never varies: Israel first tries to head off the marchers by firing rubber bullets and tear gas. Those who continue and get very near to the fence then are subject to non-lethal fire, but the Israelis aim below the knee only in order to temporarily prevent ambulation.The protesters who get right up to the fence, throwing Molotov cocktails, grenades, occasionally gunfire, at Israeli soldiers, and let loose incendiary kites to set Israeli farmland on fire, are the ones whom soldiers fire at above the knees, in the most threatening cases, shooting to kill.
Hamas has spent a lot, too, on hundreds of terror tunnels it has built from Gaza into both Israel and Egypt. These tunnels are very long and very deep – many built at a depth of 100 and reaching 2640 feet in length. They were to be used by Hamas fighters who, it was planned, would emerge at the Israeli opening, to kidnap or kill Israeli civilians, then quickly disappear into the tunnel and back to Gaza. Life for Israeli civilians near the Gaza border, with such a threat a constant possibility remains tense even in times of quiet.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> ^Hamas long ago made its choice. It chose to spend time and money and attention on making life as difficult and dangerous as it could for Israelis. Almost every Friday, for the past two years, it has staged the Great March of Return to try to breach Israel’s security fence. The script never varies: Israel first tries to head off the marchers by firing rubber bullets and tear gas. Those who continue and get very near to the fence then are subject to non-lethal fire, but the Israelis aim below the knee only in order to temporarily prevent ambulation.The protesters who get right up to the fence, throwing Molotov cocktails, grenades, occasionally gunfire, at Israeli soldiers, and let loose incendiary kites to set Israeli farmland on fire, are the ones whom soldiers fire at above the knees, in the most threatening cases, shooting to kill.
> Hamas has spent a lot, too, on hundreds of terror tunnels it has built from Gaza into both Israel and Egypt. These tunnels are very long and very deep – many built at a depth of 100 and reaching 2640 feet in length. They were to be used by Hamas fighters who, it was planned, would emerge at the Israeli opening, to kidnap or kill Israeli civilians, then quickly disappear into the tunnel and back to Gaza. Life for Israeli civilians near the Gaza border, with such a threat a constant possibility remains tense even in times of quiet.





Mindful said:


> They were to be used by Hamas fighters who, it was planned, would emerge at the Israeli opening, to kidnap or kill Israeli civilians, then quickly disappear into the tunnel and back to Gaza. Life for Israeli civilians near the Gaza border, with such a threat a constant possibility remains tense even in times of quiet.


*More Israeli lies.*

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
 


P F Tinmore said:


> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.


*(COMMENT)*

This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Tinmore is quite correct to state that the tunnels have predominantly a defensive  function despite the list you give and have never been used by militants to attack Israeli civilians. The capture of Shalit ( whose name everyone knows ,more later ) is a legitimate act within the struggle for national liberation. 

We all know Shalits name even though his detention was legitimate but we know the names of how many of the Palestinians held in administrative detention whose detention is much much more questionable ?

Due to the IDFs complete and unchallenged air supremacy in Gaza it makes total sense for the Palestinian factions to go underground. There is nothing in the laws of war that compel them to line up like ducks in front of the guns and planes of the hitech regional military superpower.

Additionally,

Rocco, why does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people. 

In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.

It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.

Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.

You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side


----------



## Spartacactcus

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
Click to expand...



Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
Click to expand...

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
Click to expand...


What you meant to say - is they *FAILED* to attack civilians.
Thank G-d, each time the rats appear out of tunnels near civilians they're neutralized.


----------



## rylah

Spartacactcus said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.
> 
> So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.
> 
> How it it "Palliwood " ?
Click to expand...


Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the industry of lies known as 'Pallywood'.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_


Spartacactcus said:


> [W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.


*(COMMENT)*

As  far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded.  No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria.  And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.

The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.



Spartacactcus said:


> In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.


*(COMMENT)*

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination."  It is actually the reverse.  It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.  

Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination."  The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination."   The implementation of a right by one peoples _(Arab Palestinians)_ cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples _(Israelis)_.  *IF* as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), *THEN* you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition.  You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play.  And *IF* we agree that far, *THEN* we must agree that *Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties )* applies.  The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:

Protected persons _(that being the Arab Palestinians)_ who:

*(ONE)*
◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​
→ shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

*(TWO)*
"The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  [ Link ]   and 65  [ Link ]   may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​
So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.



Spartacactcus said:


> It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.
> 
> Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.


*(COMMENT)*

As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.

One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 _(comparing it to Israel)_ and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians. 

The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region.  On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th.  I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income.   But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights.  I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.



Spartacactcus said:


> You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side


*(COMMENT)*

OH no.  In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community.  But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome.  Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded.  We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.

* (OFF BOOK)*

Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? *(RHETORICAL)*  Hell no!  But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash _*(maybe a couple of times)*_; as opposed to a wash at the sink.  







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.









Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.



Well that's rich...

Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.


----------



## Spartacactcus

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you meant to say - is they *FAILED* to attack civilians.
> Thank G-d, each time the rats appear out of tunnels near civilians they're neutralized.
Click to expand...



Your demonisation of the Palestinians is noted and rejected. 

Recall they have ambushed IDF people and kidnapped them which should tell people that they had been undetected by the IDF when they attacked them. If they had wanted to get to civilians they probably could have.

I know people like yourself want to misrepresent to as to demonize but only the foolosh or ignorant fall for it imo


----------



## Spartacactcus

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??
Click to expand...

 

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry


----------



## Spartacactcus

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
Click to expand...



Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed


----------



## Spartacactcus

rylah said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.
> 
> So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.
> 
> How it it "Palliwood " ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
> There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".
Click to expand...



The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.

Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?

The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as  Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery


----------



## rylah

Spartacactcus said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
Click to expand...


*That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*

Is there any other meaning?
Feel free to refute that.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry
[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

*Customary and IHL Database**:*

There is a difference between specifically targeting civilians _(Rule #6 - Civilians’ Loss of Protection from Attack)_ or the indiscriminate attacks _(Rule #12 - which are not directed at a specific military objective)_fire, or casualties suffered be the Hostiles Arab Palestinians create the conditions:

◈  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​​◈  Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​​◈  Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.​
There is no such thing as a perfect war.  But being in pursuit of those that threaten the territorial integrity, political independence, and life and safety of its citizens, Israel retains the right to exercise self-defense measures against Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters from whatever quarter.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Spartacactcus said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.
> 
> So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.
> 
> How it it "Palliwood " ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
> There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.
> 
> Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?
> 
> The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as  Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery
Click to expand...


You can blubber away all you want.

The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.


----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As  far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded.  No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria.  And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.
> 
> The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.




Rocco , no disrespect but overly long and disected posts are not my thing  and will be read by hardly anyone else due to their layout, so I will take the points in seperate posts.

I take it you have no problem with what I said about the capturing of an occupying soldier by Palestinian militants seing as I didn't see it feature in your reply.

Regardless of whether there have been peace agreements signed or not a violation of sovereign territory is still a violation of sovereignty with Lebanon and Syria having defined borders regardless of the armistice lines that resulted from the 48 war.

The Golan is Syrian sovereignty territory being occupied and illegally settled by Israel in a everyday 53 year violation of its sovereignty. Yes ?

The same with Lebanon. It has defined borders which Israel routinely violates with troops and aircraft. Hundreds of violations of sovereignty every year, along with many more including armed attacks during the Syrian civil war. Still violations of Syrian sovereign territory.

Recall too that they have invaded the sovereign air spaces of other countries from Iraq to Tunisia.

It is thus true to say that Israel is the premier violator of sovereign territories in the region but that seems not to compute to you for some reason best kn own to yourself.


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
Click to expand...


Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
But I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
*can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?


----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination."  It is actually the reverse.  It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.
> 
> Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination."  The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination."   The implementation of a right by one peoples _(Arab Palestinians)_ cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples _(Israelis)_.  *IF* as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), *THEN* you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition.  You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play.  And *IF* we agree that far, *THEN* we must agree that *Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties )* applies.  The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:
> 
> Protected persons _(that being the Arab Palestinians)_ who:
> 
> *(ONE)*
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​
> → shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.
> 
> *(TWO)*
> "The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  [ Link ]   and 65  [ Link ]   may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​
> So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.




Nope, Israel is standing in the way of Palestinian self determination and has been since 1948. It is aided and abetted by the US veto at the UN and has, every year for the last 4 decades voted against the two state solution at the Novemeber UNGA votes on the subject.

The long list of rules you cited are for " protected persons but  " NOT for combatants, who are afaik to be treated the same as any other combatants in an ongoing military conflict . Thus those that captured Shalit were combatants who captured a combatant of the occupying forces. Everything about that is legitimate.

If you want to look at the treatment of actual protected persons see the administrative detentions and torture of thousands upon thousands of Palestinians SUSPECTED of acts against the occupying power. Or the military courts filled with occupying forces people presiding over cases involving those protected persons. Or the destruction of civilian properties and the dishing out of collective punishments etc etc

Once again Rocco , you seem to only care about violations against Israeli folk. There's a patterm emerging despite your claims to be objective imo


----------



## Spartacactcus

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
Click to expand...



You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.

I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.


----------



## toastman

Spartacactcus said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry
Click to expand...

I was talking in general about Hamas killing civilians ; not just tunnels.
BTW, the IDF as a whole , do not target civilians . They have absolutely no reason to


Spartacactcus said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry
Click to expand...


The IDF as a whole do not target civilians. They have absolutely no reason to. Have there been isolated incidents where Palestinians were targeted by IDF soldiers or Israeli civilians? I have no doubt. Another thing Israelis do not do is hand out candy and celebrate when Palestinians are killed.


----------



## toastman

Tinmore and Spatacactus, like two peas in a pod.....


----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.
> 
> One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 _(comparing it to Israel)_ and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.
> 
> The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region.  On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th.  I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income.   But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights.  I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.




The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo

Worse still the second part of the above is a JUSTIFICATION for the violation of the sovereignty of the surrounding nations which kind of rubbishes any claims you have made about holding it as a sacred cow when it applied to Israeil sovereign territory only.

There are many reasons why Syria ( and other nations in the area ) has low rankings on such scales and Israel has also played it's part in making it so. Syria has been plagued by a civil war for years and the country is all but destroyed now. Had Israel undergone such a catastrophic civil war that too would cause it to plummet down the charts of how well or not the citizens are doing.

Maybe had Assad demanded the same aid Israel has gotten for his services as torturer of US extraordinary renditions cases they might have been doing better prior to the war anyway.


----------



## Spartacactcus

toastman said:


> Tinmore and Spatacactus, like two peas in a pod.....



Roses amongst the thorns imo lol


----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> OH no.  In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community.  But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome.  Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded.  We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.




Rocco your are expecting turkeys to be be voting for Christmas.

That the Palestinians have shot themselves in the foot on many occasions and worked against their own interests is not in dispute imo. It is always a part of the nature of these struggles but there is nothing unreasonable or abnormal about this.

Did the native Americans ever welcome those that came to dipossess and displace them ? Australian Aboriginals ? The tribes of South Africa ? anyone anywhere ? Nope,

Maybe if they had all have had crystal balls they may have been able to see their fate and make unpopular but pragmatic decisions based on that but , alas , they aren't readily available


----------



## Shusha

Spartacactcus said:


> The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo



The 1948 Arab/Israeli war is entirely relevant.  Why?  Because the state of war between Syria and Israel has not ended or been resolved.  It is on-going.  The belligerent action which started that war was Syria leaving its own sovereign territory and attacking another's sovereignty in another's sovereign territory.  That would be Israel.  

A state of war exists between Syria and Israel.  Because of this, the actions of Israel are dictated by defensive military considerations.


----------



## rylah

Spartacactcus said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
Click to expand...



Asked for a simple thing -
the proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupier'.*

If you can't simply say so,
instead of dancing around show at least some integrity.


----------



## Spartacactcus

Shusha said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 Arab/Israeli war is entirely relevant.  Why?  Because the state of war between Syria and Israel has not ended or been resolved.  It is on-going.  The belligerent action which started that war was Syria leaving its own sovereign territory and attacking another's sovereignty in another's sovereign territory.  That would be Israel.
> 
> A state of war exists between Syria and Israel.  Because of this, the actions of Israel are dictated by defensive military considerations.
Click to expand...



Another poster who thinks that only Israeli sovereign territory is sacred and not to be violated ? lol

Syria had it's own border, as has Lebanon and they have FA to do with the armistice lines drawn up after the 48 war.

Most of the crimes of states are allegedly built on " defensive military considerations " it still doesn't change the fact that Israel is the worst violator of sovereign territory in the region. For those that cry about violations of Israeli territory , as you no doubt have, the level of hypocrisy is staggering


----------



## Spartacactcus

rylah said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't ask for agreement or disagreement.
> Merely asked for a proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> If you can't simply say so,
> at least stop dancing around and show some integrity.
Click to expand...



Don't accuse me of having any integrity when you are constantly dancing on the graves of and violations of the Palestinians and probably waxing lyrical about how you are morally superior.

The Palestinians are the people that make up the future residents of the Palestinian state and the diaspora that fled or was forced out by Israel in both 48 and 67.

The entire world sees the Israeli occupation of Palestine for what it is and it's only the US veto that has stopped the overwhelming world consensus to settle the conflict on the 67 lines on a two state basis


----------



## rylah

Spartacactcus said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't ask for agreement or disagreement.
> Merely asked for a proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> If you can't simply say so,
> at least stop dancing around and show some integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't accuse me of having any integrity when you are constantly dancing on the graves of and violations of the Palestinians and probably waxing lyrical about how you are morally superior.
> 
> The Palestinians are the people that make up the future residents of the Palestinian state and the diaspora that fled or was forced out by Israel in both 48 and 67.
> 
> The entire world sees the Israeli occupation of Palestine for what it is and it's only the US veto that has stopped the overwhelming world consensus to settle the conflict on the 67 lines on a two state basis
Click to expand...


_"The entire world"_... 
Typical none sense.

And for some reason you still can't refute what I said.
Should be easy, don't you think, why is that?





And while we're there...

Q. Do you know any people who claim custody over children
who's name they can't even pronounce?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Gaza riot!




The Hamas chief says you're full of sh*t,
and thanks you for being an exemplary useful idiot -


----------



## Shusha

Spartacactcus said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 Arab/Israeli war is entirely relevant.  Why?  Because the state of war between Syria and Israel has not ended or been resolved.  It is on-going.  The belligerent action which started that war was Syria leaving its own sovereign territory and attacking another's sovereignty in another's sovereign territory.  That would be Israel.
> 
> A state of war exists between Syria and Israel.  Because of this, the actions of Israel are dictated by defensive military considerations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Another poster who thinks that only Israeli sovereign territory is sacred and not to be violated ? lol
> 
> Syria had it's own border, as has Lebanon and they have FA to do with the armistice lines drawn up after the 48 war.
> 
> Most of the crimes of states are allegedly built on " defensive military considerations " it still doesn't change the fact that Israel is the worst violator of sovereign territory in the region. For those that cry about violations of Israeli territory , as you no doubt have, the level of hypocrisy is staggering
Click to expand...



When a State violates territory which does not belong to it, they and only they, are responsible for the consequences of those actions.  You are trying to argue that Syria's belligerent violations of Israeli sovereignty must be responded to without military consideration.  

It is a ridiculous argument.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_

I'm sorry you don't appreciate my format.  In the mixed challenge by you _(or anyone else)_ my reply response and reaction format _(a commentary)_ brings up one issue at a time and responds to each issue as it comes up.  I identify your point and react to it.       If you address apples and oranges, I will split them apart and address them separately.  If you address apple stems and the apple skin, I will address them separately since they have difference functions.

Whether or not members of the discussion group read my response and reaction is immaterial.  If they do not want to avail themselves of the point-of-view, then so be it.  I present my perspective and the reasons why _(usually by reference to something authoritative)_ I reacted in a particular way and move on.

 This is because I don't expect to change your mind.  As an example, I presented the IHL as to why the Arab Palestinians should be punished (Article 68), yet you still seem to think it is legitimate.  Once I present the authoritative citation and you ignore its application, then what more needs to be said? _(RHETORICAL)_





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 Arab/Israeli war is entirely relevant.  Why?  Because the state of war between Syria and Israel has not ended or been resolved.  It is on-going.  The belligerent action which started that war was Syria leaving its own sovereign territory and attacking another's sovereignty in another's sovereign territory.  That would be Israel.
> 
> A state of war exists between Syria and Israel.  Because of this, the actions of Israel are dictated by defensive military considerations.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> A state of war exists between Syria and Israel.


Why? Syria did not attack Israel in 1948.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why? Syria did not attack Israel in 1948.



Yes.  She did.  She crossed out of the territory of her sovereignty and attacked the newly declared independent and self-governing State of Israel which represented the self-determination and RE-constitution of the Jewish Nation.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
*(COMMENT)*

As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab  States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces.   The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population.  However,  a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them _(as in the West Bank)_ or placed them under a Military Governorship _(as in the Gaza Strip)_.   The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible _(if not all)_ with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control.  In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains _(West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ while in other areas no significant gains _(Lebanese and Syrian border areas)_.

As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position.  The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to _(once again)_ establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab  States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces.   The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population.  However,  a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them _(as in the West Bank)_ or placed them under a Military Governorship _(as in the Gaza Strip)_.   The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible _(if not all)_ with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control.  In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains _(West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ while in other areas no significant gains _(Lebanese and Syrian border areas)_.
> 
> As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position.  The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to _(once again)_ establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.

Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.

Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.

All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Bo Didleysquat

rylah said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Asked for a simple thing -
> the proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupier'.*
> 
> If you can't simply say so,
> instead of dancing around show at least some integrity.
Click to expand...

Who is occupying, oppressing and cleansing whom?  Israel is an apartheid state engaged in ethnic cleansing.  A savage rogue authoritarian state.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,   _et al,_

BLUF:


			
				The 1948 War and Glubb’s Management of the Greater Transjordan Scheme said:
			
		

> In February both Britain and Transjordan pinned their hopes for a satisfactory resolution to the Palestine problem on Glubb and the Arab Legion occupying central Palestine with the tacit acquiescence of the Zionists. It was not expected, however, that the end of the mandate would descend into a full-blown war involving the regular armies of the neighbouring Arab states. Not until the final week of the mandate did this become certain, and at midnight on 14/15 May, when the British mandate ended, the Arab Legion marched across the Allenby Bridge as part of the invading Arab coalition, ostensibly to prevent the creation of a Jewish state and to facilitate the creation of an independent Arab Palestine. 1 Yet when the war came to an effective end in 1949 with the signing of a series of bilateral armistice agreements between Israel and the Arab states, the Greater Transjordan objective had largely reached fruition [ Map 5 ]. The Arab Legion controlled the bulk of central Palestine allotted to the Arabs under the UN partition resolution. Thus, two states – two apparent enemies – emerged from the war territorially victorious.





			
				The 1948 War and Glubb’s Management of the Greater Transjordan Scheme said:
			
		

> *SOURCE:*  Page 89 •  *Glubb Pasha and the Arab Legion -*​*Britain, Jordan, and the End of Empire in the Middle East*​


​_NOTE:  Glubb Pasha = Lieutenant-General Sir John Glubb, Commanding the Arab Legion (Jordanian Army)_
​


P F Tinmore said:


> The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.


*(COMMENT)*

Like I said before, the parameters of a "war" are undefine; both politically and militarily.  It is not an exact term.  When LTG Glubb says "war," he may be making a comparison to the Great War, or WWII.  So you actually make no point here with LTG Glubb comment.  In Glubb's mind, how big does an Armed Engagement have to be to qualify as a war?  _(RHETORICAL)_  We simply don't know.

Whether you want to call it a "war" or not - is up to you _(quibble over the term)_.  What we do know is that armed Arab Forces engaged Israel armed forces.  When 7.62mm is whistling over your head, you don't stop and think about what war means.

One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence for the Israels was not reached until the 1973 Yom Kipper War concluded.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

Bo Didleysquat said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Asked for a simple thing -
> the proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupier'.*
> 
> If you can't simply say so,
> instead of dancing around show at least some integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is occupying, oppressing and cleansing whom?  Israel is an apartheid state engaged in ethnic cleansing.  A savage rogue authoritarian state.
Click to expand...


Let's see, so you couldn't address a simple fact,
and went on to cover that with the usual none sense.

...I'm shocked 

Q. Why none of you can refute a single thing I say?


----------



## Spartacactcus

RoccoR said:


> This is because I don't expect to change your mind.  As an example, I presented the IHL as to why the Arab Palestinians should be punished (Article 68), yet you still seem to think it is legitimate.  Once I present the authoritative citation and you ignore its application, then what more needs to be said? _(RHETORICAL)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R



Rocco, the IHL references you cited refer to non combatants only. Those that attacked the IDF patrol and captured Shalit were combatants and thus are to be treated as none protected people , soldiers for all intents and purposes and will be covered under the conventions/laws applicable to combatants.

That's why I rejected the application of it to the events surrounding the capture of Shalit and see that as a legitimate attack against occupying forces.

I don't understand why you didn't pick this up and have me down as an unreasonable partisan hack.

When it comes to the treatment of protected persons I gave you a whole raft of Israeli state/IDF violations that you appear not to have responded to.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab  States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces.   The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population.  However,  a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them _(as in the West Bank)_ or placed them under a Military Governorship _(as in the Gaza Strip)_.   The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible _(if not all)_ with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control.  In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains _(West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ while in other areas no significant gains _(Lebanese and Syrian border areas)_.
> 
> As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position.  The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to _(once again)_ establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.
> 
> Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.
> 
> All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
Click to expand...


Nah...
your whole premise is based solely on a false association.
Only problem is, that whole balloon instantly blows up once asked
for any legal definition of Palestine without reference to the Jewish Nation.

P.S.: While were're there, was Palestine ever legally defined with any Arab sovereignty?

And now you start the usual duck dance...


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_

No, that would be 100% wrong.



Spartacactcus said:


> Rocco, the IHL references you cited refer to non combatants only.


*(COMMENT)*

You have to be careful to read the coverage.

◈  Solely intended to harm the *Occupying Power*,​◈  Attempt on the life or limb of members of the:​✦  *Occupying Forces*​✦  *Occupying administration*​✦  Nor seriously damage the property of the *Occupying Forces* or *Administration* or the installations used by them​
The IHL does not distinguish combatant and non-combatant.  This distinction is not made in Article 68.  I challenge you to read it carefully.

I know that the Arab Palestinians have been telling themselves, for so long, that civil disorder and armed struggle are legal.  But that is completely wrong.
 •   [(1) p.343] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 765-768;

The minor offenses must have been "solely" intended to harm the Occupying Power. The inclusion of the word "solely" excludes acts that harm the Occupying Power indirectly.

Also remember that 90% of the pictures displayed in this thread display NOT Occupying Forces, but Civil Police Authorities.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

Bo Didleysquat said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *More Israeli lies.*
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?
> 
> Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' *FAILURE* to attack civilians from the tunnels,
> after being neutralized, with not being used for *attempts* to fulfill that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's rich...
> 
> Since the word* 'Palestinians' *in itself means* 'Occupiers'*,
> that's like fish complaining about water being wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.*
> 
> Is there any other meaning?
> Feel free to refute that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
> But I won't hold my breath.
> 
> In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
> *can't even pronounce the word*, let alone know its meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.
> 
> I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Asked for a simple thing -
> the proof that* 'Palestinian'* had any other meaning other than* 'Occupier'.*
> 
> If you can't simply say so,
> instead of dancing around show at least some integrity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is occupying, oppressing and cleansing whom?  Israel is an apartheid state engaged in ethnic cleansing.  A savage rogue authoritarian state.
Click to expand...


Apartheid ? LOL !!! You clearly know nothing about Israel and have never been there. You just follow the morons that like to use words they know nothing about.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.
> 
> The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the French have the right to self determination in France?  What gives them that right?
Click to expand...

They are the people of the place.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> 
> No, that would be 100% wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, the IHL references you cited refer to non combatants only.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You have to be careful to read the coverage.
> 
> ◈  Solely intended to harm the *Occupying Power*,​◈  Attempt on the life or limb of members of the:​✦  *Occupying Forces*​✦  *Occupying administration*​✦  Nor seriously damage the property of the *Occupying Forces* or *Administration* or the installations used by them​
> The IHL does not distinguish combatant and non-combatant.  This distinction is not made in Article 68.  I challenge you to read it carefully.
> 
> I know that the Arab Palestinians have been telling themselves, for so long, that civil disorder and armed struggle are legal.  But that is completely wrong.
> •   [(1) p.343] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 765-768;
> 
> The minor offenses must have been "solely" intended to harm the Occupying Power. The inclusion of the word "solely" excludes acts that harm the Occupying Power indirectly.
> 
> Also remember that 90% of the pictures displayed in this thread display NOT Occupying Forces, but Civil Police Authorities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Also remember that 90% of the pictures displayed in this thread display NOT Occupying Forces, but Civil Police Authorities.


Same shit different platter. "Civil police" take Palestinians to military kangaroo courts.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??
Click to expand...

Did you OD on doofus pills?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.
> 
> So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.
> 
> How it it "Palliwood " ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
> There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.
> 
> Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?
> 
> The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as  Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can blubber away all you want.
> 
> The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
> but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.
Click to expand...

Stupid post of the day!

She was wearing a white medic coat and was shot in the chest by Israeli snipers who have shot groups the size of a nickel. And you claim that she was not targeted.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza riot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas chief says you're full of sh*t,
> and thanks you for being an exemplary useful idiot -
Click to expand...

No doubt that he would be bitter, Israel killed his son when Israel bombed his family home.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> [W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As  far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded.  No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria.  And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.
> 
> The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination."  It is actually the reverse.  It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.
> 
> Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination."  The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination."   The implementation of a right by one peoples _(Arab Palestinians)_ cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples _(Israelis)_.  *IF* as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), *THEN* you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition.  You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play.  And *IF* we agree that far, *THEN* we must agree that *Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties )* applies.  The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:
> 
> Protected persons _(that being the Arab Palestinians)_ who:
> 
> *(ONE)*
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​
> → shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.
> 
> *(TWO)*
> "The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  [ Link ]   and 65  [ Link ]   may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​
> So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.
> 
> Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.
> 
> One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 _(comparing it to Israel)_ and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.
> 
> The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region.  On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th.  I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income.   But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights.  I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH no.  In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community.  But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome.  Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded.  We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.
> 
> * (OFF BOOK)*
> 
> Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? *(RHETORICAL)*  Hell no!  But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash _*(maybe a couple of times)*_; as opposed to a wash at the sink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.


More bullshit out of Israel. There is no "disputed" territory. It is Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,   _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 War and Glubb’s Management of the Greater Transjordan Scheme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In February both Britain and Transjordan pinned their hopes for a satisfactory resolution to the Palestine problem on Glubb and the Arab Legion occupying central Palestine with the tacit acquiescence of the Zionists. It was not expected, however, that the end of the mandate would descend into a full-blown war involving the regular armies of the neighbouring Arab states. Not until the final week of the mandate did this become certain, and at midnight on 14/15 May, when the British mandate ended, the Arab Legion marched across the Allenby Bridge as part of the invading Arab coalition, ostensibly to prevent the creation of a Jewish state and to facilitate the creation of an independent Arab Palestine. 1 Yet when the war came to an effective end in 1949 with the signing of a series of bilateral armistice agreements between Israel and the Arab states, the Greater Transjordan objective had largely reached fruition [ Map 5 ]. The Arab Legion controlled the bulk of central Palestine allotted to the Arabs under the UN partition resolution. Thus, two states – two apparent enemies – emerged from the war territorially victorious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1948 War and Glubb’s Management of the Greater Transjordan Scheme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SOURCE:*  Page 89 •  *Glubb Pasha and the Arab Legion -*​*Britain, Jordan, and the End of Empire in the Middle East*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​_NOTE:  Glubb Pasha = Lieutenant-General Sir John Glubb, Commanding the Arab Legion (Jordanian Army)_
> View attachment 316667​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Like I said before, the parameters of a "war" are undefine; both politically and militarily.  It is not an exact term.  When LTG Glubb says "war," he may be making a comparison to the Great War, or WWII.  So you actually make no point here with LTG Glubb comment.  In Glubb's mind, how big does an Armed Engagement have to be to qualify as a war?  _(RHETORICAL)_  We simply don't know.
> 
> Whether you want to call it a "war" or not - is up to you _(quibble over the term)_.  What we do know is that armed Arab Forces engaged Israel armed forces.  When 7.62mm is whistling over your head, you don't stop and think about what war means.
> 
> One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence for the Israels was not reached until the 1973 Yom Kipper War concluded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence


I always laugh at this term. Independent from what?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab  States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces.   The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population.  However,  a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them _(as in the West Bank)_ or placed them under a Military Governorship _(as in the Gaza Strip)_.   The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible _(if not all)_ with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control.  In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains _(West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ while in other areas no significant gains _(Lebanese and Syrian border areas)_.
> 
> As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position.  The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to _(once again)_ establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.
> 
> Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.
> 
> All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah...
> your whole premise is based solely on a false association.
> Only problem is, that whole balloon instantly blows up once asked
> for any legal definition of Palestine without reference to the Jewish Nation.
> 
> P.S.: While were're there, was Palestine ever legally defined with any Arab sovereignty?
> 
> And now you start the usual duck dance...
Click to expand...

Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  An interview with a dead person.  Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.
> 
> So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.
> 
> How it it "Palliwood " ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
> There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.
> 
> Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?
> 
> The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as  Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can blubber away all you want.
> 
> The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
> but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid post of the day!
> 
> She was wearing a white medic coat and was shot in the chest by Israeli snipers who have shot groups the size of a nickel. And you claim that she was not targeted.
Click to expand...


That's what you keep mindlessly parroting.
Yet its been more than a year and still not a shred of evidence.

Strange isn't it?... well Pallywood


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaza riot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hamas chief says you're full of sh*t,
> and thanks you for being an exemplary useful idiot -
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No doubt that he would be bitter, Israel killed his son when Israel bombed his family home.
Click to expand...



What's bitter have to do
with even Hamas chief saying you're a mindless lying parrot?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore,   _et al,_

*BLUF:* Israel declared independence as a trustee to a self-governing state.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence
> 
> 
> 
> I always laugh at this term. Independent from what?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

It was an end result of a process that the Arab Palestinian rejected.  We will never know how much better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they had accepted and cooperated with the UN Palestine Commission in 1948.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab  States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces.   The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians.  The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population.  However,  a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them _(as in the West Bank)_ or placed them under a Military Governorship _(as in the Gaza Strip)_.   The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible _(if not all)_ with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control.  In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains _(West Bank and Gaza Strip)_ while in other areas no significant gains _(Lebanese and Syrian border areas)_.
> 
> As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position.  The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to _(once again)_ establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.
> 
> Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.
> 
> Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.
> 
> All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah...
> your whole premise is based solely on a false association.
> Only problem is, that whole balloon instantly blows up once asked
> for any legal definition of Palestine without reference to the Jewish Nation.
> 
> P.S.: While were're there, was Palestine ever legally defined with any Arab sovereignty?
> 
> And now you start the usual duck dance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.
Click to expand...


And what legal authority does it have?
C'mon show us a new bluff that hasn't been already refuted a 1000 times.

Ok, I've bought the ticket,
now don't you dare duck the duck dance, we know you can do better.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Independent from what?





*From the stink of the Caliphate of course!*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  Shusha, Spartacactcus,  _et al,_

BLUF:  "IT" is very appropriate.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, so it does:



But the PLO is still the "representative of the Palestinian people."

What are you *IF* • you don't walk like a duck, you don't quack like a duck, and you don't look like a duck? →  *THEN* • maybe you are NOT a duck.   The same is true for "Palestine."

In Ceasar's time, they would seal it with:  *SQPR* (so says the Senate and the People of Rome).    Today, we'll just have to be satisfied with:  *RoL* (the Rule of Law).




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  Spartacactcus,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> [W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As  far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded.  No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria.  And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.
> 
> The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination."  It is actually the reverse.  It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.
> 
> Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination."  The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination."   The implementation of a right by one peoples _(Arab Palestinians)_ cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples _(Israelis)_.  *IF* as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), *THEN* you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition.  You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play.  And *IF* we agree that far, *THEN* we must agree that *Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties )* applies.  The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:
> 
> Protected persons _(that being the Arab Palestinians)_ who:
> 
> *(ONE)*
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,
> ◈  commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,
> 
> → shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.
> 
> *(TWO)*
> "The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64  [ Link ]   and 65  [ Link ]   may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."
> 
> So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.
> 
> Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.
> 
> One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 _(comparing it to Israel)_ and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.
> 
> The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region.  On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th.  I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income.   But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights.  I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Spartacactcus said:
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> OH no.  In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community.  But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome.  Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded.  We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.
> 
> * (OFF BOOK)*
> 
> Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? *(RHETORICAL)*  Hell no!  But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash _*(maybe a couple of times)*_; as opposed to a wash at the sink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories _(the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip)_ that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit out of Israel. There is no "disputed" territory. It is Palestine.
Click to expand...


Potato/potatoe...twist all you want.

None of that belongs to Arab sovereignty anyway.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.
> 
> The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do the French have the right to self determination in France?  What gives them that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are the people of the place.
Click to expand...


And how do you know that they are the people of the place?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *•  Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel  •*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.
> 
> The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This argument _(used for legitimate defense)_ might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.
> 
> In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
> Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
> Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.
> 
> 
> View attachment 315951
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never attacked civilians.
> 
> Just like I said and Israel lied about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you OD on doofus pills?
Click to expand...

The Israelis that were killed by Hamas are not civilians of a country ?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:* I don't think the pro-Arab Palestinians understand. And even if you show it to them in black and white, they refuse to accept it. It is one of the reasons why the conflict has lasted so long.



toastman said:


> The Israelis that were killed by Hamas are not civilians of a country ?


*(COMMENT)*

*As an example* _(I don't yet have stats for this year)_ in May 2019 _(I like the month of May, the month of my birth)_, HAMAS [_Islamic Resistance Movement_] launched ≈ 600 rockets into Sovereign Israeli territory.   Three Israelis citizens were killed by the rockets and more than 100 Israeli civilians were injured.

The political existence of Israel is completely independent of recognition or rejections and claims by the Arab Palestinians; as well as, any other states.  And who the State of Israel recognizes as a citizen is outside the venue of any foreign state.  No Arab Palestinian entity has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of Israel; to include the establishment of fundamental Basic Laws.

Arab Palestinians can act as criminals in the furtherance of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence; but they haven't accepted the challenge of building a self-governing institution in nearly a century.  And as a culture, they blame anybody other than themselves _(cultural Narcissism)_.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?*


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> *Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?*


Why is Tinmore afraid of the truth ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Tamimi family & their struggle against Israeli occupation
> 
> *



The royal tribe of Qatar complaining about so called 'occupation'
in a land the name of which they can't even pronounce properly.

That's rich...

*Arabian Royal Tribes - Banu Tamimi*

*Dynasties[edit]*

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).






*Leader and main donor of Fatah and Hamas: Tamim bin Hamad al Thani (Tamimi royal dynasty) - Emir of Qatar.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*World Without Walls: An Evening with Janna Jihad (Oakland, California) August 1, 2019

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> *World Without Walls: An Evening with Janna Jihad (Oakland, California) August 1, 2019
> 
> *


Rocco, Janna Jihad and Lara Kiswani, What's not to like?

Does Israel have any 14 year old girls touring the US selling Israel? All they have is a bunch of old farts who don't get out much. They just hang around DC buying politicians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  It is a matter of content and the potential for manipulation of inexperienced minors.



P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco, Janna Jihad and Lara Kiswani, What's not to like?
> 
> Does Israel have any 14 year old girls touring the US selling Israel? All they have is a bunch of old farts who don't get out much. They just hang around DC buying politicians.


*(COMMENT)*

Right off the bat, I cannot decry the use of "non-violent" measures as an approach to attempts for political achievement.  These are the well within the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.

And I see the value in having alternative views on matters of international peace founded upon the respect for basic human rights uncomplicated by hidden political agenda.
I respect the right for all people to forge ahead in the arena for the right of self-determination in defined terms irrespective of their political, economic and social systems or the levels of their development.  

I even think that I want to support the concept of the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined; especially in the post–World War II era.

But what I find difficult to cope with is attempting to challenge a 14-year-old's view of a relatively simple matter of sovereignty and territorial integrity that has been marred and overly complicated by the insertion of the artificial and intangible humanitarian laws.  By performing a postmortem on a 14-year-old girl's presentation does not speak well of me.  




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *World Without Walls: An Evening with Janna Jihad (Oakland, California) August 1, 2019
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, Janna Jihad and Lara Kiswani, What's not to like?
> 
> Does Israel have any 14 year old girls touring the US selling Israel? All they have is a bunch of old farts who don't get out much. They just hang around DC buying politicians.
Click to expand...


Well just to think how morally poor one must be,
to cheer at a teenage girl being put as a front of Hamas and Co.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  It is a matter of content and the potential for manipulation of inexperienced minors.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rocco, Janna Jihad and Lara Kiswani, What's not to like?
> 
> Does Israel have any 14 year old girls touring the US selling Israel? All they have is a bunch of old farts who don't get out much. They just hang around DC buying politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Right off the bat, I cannot decry the use of "non-violent" measures as an approach to attempts for political achievement.  These are the well within the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States.
> 
> And I see the value in having alternative views on matters of international peace founded upon the respect for basic human rights uncomplicated by hidden political agenda.
> I respect the right for all people to forge ahead in the arena for the right of self-determination in defined terms irrespective of their political, economic and social systems or the levels of their development.
> 
> I even think that I want to support the concept of the inviolability of existing nation-states’ borders, regardless of how and when they were determined; especially in the post–World War II era.
> 
> But what I find difficult to cope with is attempting to challenge a 14-year-old's view of a relatively simple matter of sovereignty and territorial integrity that has been marred and overly complicated by the insertion of the artificial and intangible humanitarian laws.  By performing a postmortem on a 14-year-old girl's presentation does not speak well of me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

So, what did she say about sovereignty and territorial integrity that you disagree with?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  She propaganda tool to put an innocent child-like face on the Tamimi Clan and their agenda.  It's like the a Madison Avenue impression to project.



Believe it or not, this is Marilyn Chambers holding up the Procter & Gamble Ivory Snow box where she is the cover girl pictured on the front holding a baby.  She was the image they projected as the commercial the Ivory Snow was “99 44/100% pure."



P F Tinmore said:


> So, what did she say about sovereignty and territorial integrity that you disagree with?


*(COMMENT)*

The image she present of the agenda, like the necklace sho often wears, symbolizing the demand for the elimination of Israel. 
It symbolizes the agenda that Palestine _(within the boundaries of the former British Mandate)_ is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Some Arab Palestinians say:

_Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._​
This 14-year-old is the face in front of:

Abbas pledges: *There will be no Israelis in Palestine*.​Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in Egypt that​no Israelis would be allowed to remain in a future Palestinian state.​There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.​Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.​The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
I cannot challenge her for what others may create from that innocent face.

​








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  She propaganda tool to put an innocent child-like face on the Tamimi Clan and their agenda.  It's like the a Madison Avenue impression to project.
> View attachment 317315​
> Believe it or not, this is Marilyn Chambers holding up the Procter & Gamble Ivory Snow box where she is the cover girl pictured on the front holding a baby.  She was the image they projected as the commercial the Ivory Snow was “99 44/100% pure."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what did she say about sovereignty and territorial integrity that you disagree with?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The image she present of the agenda, like the necklace sho often wears, symbolizing the demand for the elimination of Israel.
> It symbolizes the agenda that Palestine _(within the boundaries of the former British Mandate)_ is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> 
> Some Arab Palestinians say:
> 
> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._​
> This 14-year-old is the face in front of:
> 
> Abbas pledges: *There will be no Israelis in Palestine*.​Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in Egypt that​no Israelis would be allowed to remain in a future Palestinian state.​There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.​Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.​The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.​
> I cannot challenge her for what others may create from that innocent face.
> 
> View attachment 317325​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._


OK, and?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  I remember once when my Dad cut me Chocolate Cake.  I looked at him and said, it's kind of small, isn't it.  He immediately took the cake back.  He said that I should have thanked him.  Whether it is a big piece or a small piece, they both taste the same.

It is the very same for the taste of freedom and independence → they are just as sweet, no matter the size of territorial sovereignty.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

These are not the words of people who want to:

• Maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and,​• Removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression.​
The first sentence to the UN Charter.







Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I remember once when my Dad cut me Chocolate Cake.  I looked at him and said, it's kind of small, isn't it.  He immediately took the cake back.  He said that I should have thanked him.  Whether it is a big piece or a small piece, they both taste the same.
> 
> It is the very same for the taste of freedom and independence → they are just as sweet, no matter the size of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> These are not the words of people who want to:
> 
> • Maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and,​• Removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression.​
> The first sentence to the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

How does that relate to my post?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jake Morphonios at Red Pill Expo - Palestinians Deserve Dignity 

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A conversation on Palestine with Roger Waters, Dennis Banks, Mairead Maguire and Cynthia McKinney

*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

I took the "OK and" reply to mean:  "What comes next" after the Palestinian position of "_not a waiver an inch or any part thereof..."_



P F Tinmore said:


> How does that relate to my post?


*(COMMENT)*

The answer is that for each negative measure of violence from the Arab Palestinians on the issue, the consequence will be that they gain less - "and" less.  

In 1948 pre-Arab League Invasion, the Arab Palestinians could have had 46% of the land in the allotment for the Arab State with full sovereign authority.  Today, they have full authority over the Gaza Strip and Area "A." 

How much more do the Arab Palestinians want to risk using the same strategy as they have since May 1948?








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## eagle1462010

Desert Land full of Nomads............Nomads who today say that the land was stolen from them when they lived in Tents.........Owned by the present day Turks........Ottoman Empire who lost their Empire in WWI..............Then relatives of the PLO like the Grand Mufti allied themselves to Hitler and the SOLUTION.......on which the world Kicked his ass................and the Pali's who really Have no claim ............continue to say IT WAS STOLEN.

Laughable..............The Israelis are too nice.........how America was born was not being nice........be thankful for the history there......had it been the U.S. You wouldn't be in Gaza at all........


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> I took the "OK and" reply to mean:  "What comes next" after the Palestinian position of "_not a waiver an inch or any part thereof..."_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The answer is that for each negative measure of violence from the Arab Palestinians on the issue, the consequence will be that they gain less - "and" less.
> 
> In 1948 pre-Arab League Invasion, the Arab Palestinians could have had 46% of the land in the allotment for the Arab State with full sovereign authority.  Today, they have full authority over the Gaza Strip and Area "A."
> 
> How much more do the Arab Palestinians want to risk using the same strategy as they have since May 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> In 1948 pre-Arab League Invasion, the Arab Palestinians could have had 46% of the land in the allotment for the Arab State with full sovereign authority.


The so called allotment was part of resolution 181 that was not implemented. There was no allotment.

The Arab league did invade Israel.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  It is NOT all about what the Arab Palestinians demand, accept, or reject.

You have your personal view.  The Arab Palestinians acceptance was not required for implementation:

F.  ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS​When the independence of *either* the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed *by either of them*, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.


			
				UN PAL/169 17 May 1948 said:
			
		

> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> The so called allotment was part of resolution 181 that was not implemented. There was no allotment.
> 
> The Arab league did invade Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

Too many times the Arab Palestinians attempt to impose their view, their interpretation, --- of the situation as a truth.  









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  It is NOT all about what the Arab Palestinians demand, accept, or reject.
> 
> You have your personal view.  The Arab Palestinians acceptance was not required for implementation:
> 
> F.  ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS​When the independence of *either* the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed *by either of them*, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> UN PAL/169 17 May 1948 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility.  The Commission has not been dissolved.  *In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."*​​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The so called allotment was part of resolution 181 that was not implemented. There was no allotment.
> 
> The Arab league did invade Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Too many times the Arab Palestinians attempt to impose their view, their interpretation, --- of the situation as a truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Not true. The UN had no authority to partition Palestine. The UN offered a proposal. If both sides signed it there would be a treaty. If both did not they had nothing.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF: * AGAIN! You are confused... Just because the Jewish People, who followed recommendations successfully established a self-governing country and the Arab Palestinians did not, → does not make the process improper.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too many times the Arab Palestinians attempt to impose their view, their interpretation, --- of the situation as a truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The UN had no authority to partition Palestine. The UN offered a proposal. If both sides signed it there would be a treaty. If both did not they had nothing.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

You are correct about the lack of authority on the General Assembly.  But what you have to understand _(after being told so many-many times)_ is that the UN made a "recommendation" and the Jewish people exercised their self-determination. It was something the Mandate Authority and the Trustee Authorities tried unsuccessfully to get the Arab Palestinians to do. But the Arab Palestinians were never actually interested in a cooperative effort towards self-governing institutions.









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF: * AGAIN! You are confused... Just because the Jewish People, who followed recommendations successfully established a self-governing country and the Arab Palestinians did not, → does not make the process improper.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too many times the Arab Palestinians attempt to impose their view, their interpretation, --- of the situation as a truth.
> 
> 
> 
> Not true. The UN had no authority to partition Palestine. The UN offered a proposal. If both sides signed it there would be a treaty. If both did not they had nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are correct about the lack of authority on the General Assembly.  But what you have to understand _(after being told so many-many times)_ is that the UN made a "recommendation" and the Jewish people exercised their self-determination. It was something the Mandate Authority and the Trustee Authorities tried unsuccessfully to get the Arab Palestinians to do. But the Arab Palestinians were never actually interested in a cooperative effort towards self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.

Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?



The peoples seeking (and achieving) self-determination and sovereignty in that territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The peoples seeking (and achieving) self-determination and sovereignty in that territory.
Click to expand...

It is not "that territory" it is Palestine.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The peoples seeking (and achieving) self-determination and sovereignty in that territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not "that territory" it is Palestine.
Click to expand...


Sure.  You always want to insert some sort of meaning where there is none.  I am speaking about a specific geographical territory. That is why I used the terminology that I did.  

The point stands.  The peoples seeking self-determination on that territory (and there are two such peoples, possibly three) are the only ones with the authority to partition the territory.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Wait, what??!

You OFFICIALLY categorize people by skin-color,
Tlaib makes a whole speech demanding more of that,
then has the audacity to call *Israel* a racist country???!!


*$#^&#%^#^#&^&$%@#$^@$%^@$%^&#$&##%^#$%^!!!!!


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I remember once when my Dad cut me Chocolate Cake.  I looked at him and said, it's kind of small, isn't it.  He immediately took the cake back.  He said that I should have thanked him.  Whether it is a big piece or a small piece, they both taste the same.
> 
> It is the very same for the taste of freedom and independence → they are just as sweet, no matter the size of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> These are not the words of people who want to:
> 
> • Maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and,​• Removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression.​
> The first sentence to the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
Click to expand...

My goodness are you tiring . Do you know how to read ?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:*  You simply don't pay attention.  The question was asked and answered.


			
				DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> At its second regular session,  after an intense two-month-long debate,  the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the  Plan of  Partition with  Economic  Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. The plan included:




			
				DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
			
		

> ※  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948;​​※  Division  of  Palestine  into  eight  parts:  three  were  allotted  to  the  Arab  State and three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and​​※  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​



See:  The Blue Book:  Page 7, of *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations*



P F Tinmore said:


> You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

The National Council for the Jewish State made application to the UN Palestine Commission _(UNPC)_ for recognition as a provisional government.  And with the coordination with the UNPC _(acting on behalf of the UN)_ National Council established the independence of the Jewish State as it's own sovereign nation → to be know as the State of Israel. 

I'm sure one of the Israeli Citizens could make it much plainer.  But those are the salient points.








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I remember once when my Dad cut me Chocolate Cake.  I looked at him and said, it's kind of small, isn't it.  He immediately took the cake back.  He said that I should have thanked him.  Whether it is a big piece or a small piece, they both taste the same.
> 
> It is the very same for the taste of freedom and independence → they are just as sweet, no matter the size of territorial sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures._
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> These are not the words of people who want to:
> 
> • Maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and,​• Removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression.​
> The first sentence to the UN Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that relate to my post?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My goodness are you tiring . Do you know how to read ?
Click to expand...

Sure. You?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what??!
> 
> You OFFICIALLY categorize people by skin-color,
> Tlaib makes a whole speech demanding more of that,
> then has the audacity to call *Israel* a racist country???!!
> 
> 
> *$#^&#%^#^#&^&$%@#$^@$%^@$%^&#$&##%^#$%^!!!!!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry it went over your head.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  You simply don't pay attention.  The question was asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session,  after an intense two-month-long debate,  the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the  Plan of  Partition with  Economic  Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. The plan included: ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ※  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948;​​※  Division  of  Palestine  into  eight  parts:  three  were  allotted  to  the  Arab  State and three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and​​※  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> See:  The Blue Book:  Page 7, of *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The National Council for the Jewish State made application to the UN Palestine Commission _(UNPC)_ for recognition as a provisional government.  And with the coordination with the UNPC _(acting on behalf of the UN)_ National Council established the independence of the Jewish State as it's own sovereign nation → to be know as the State of Israel.
> 
> I'm sure one of the Israeli Citizens could make it much plainer.  But those are the salient points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


You are dancing around my post.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  You simply don't pay attention.  The question was asked and answered.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session,  after an intense two-month-long debate,  the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the  Plan of  Partition with  Economic  Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. The plan included: ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ※  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948;​​※  Division  of  Palestine  into  eight  parts:  three  were  allotted  to  the  Arab  State and three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and​​※  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> See:  The Blue Book:  Page 7, of *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The National Council for the Jewish State made application to the UN Palestine Commission _(UNPC)_ for recognition as a provisional government.  And with the coordination with the UNPC _(acting on behalf of the UN)_ National Council established the independence of the Jewish State as it's own sovereign nation → to be know as the State of Israel.
> 
> I'm sure one of the Israeli Citizens could make it much plainer.  But those are the salient points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dancing around my post.
Click to expand...

Kind of like when you dance around my post when I ask you to give me specific examples of the Palestinians defending themselves ??


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what??!
> 
> You OFFICIALLY categorize people by skin-color,
> Tlaib makes a whole speech demanding more of that,
> then has the audacity to call *Israel* a racist country???!!
> 
> 
> *$#^&#%^#^#&^&$%@#$^@$%^@$%^&#$&##%^#$%^!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry it went over your head.
Click to expand...


Ok "teacher" please explain -

what's good in demanding more characterization of people by skin-color?
What's good about indulgence in the most blatant form of racism?
How does it not make you and Tlaib worst hypocrites?

I really want to know.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what??!
> 
> You OFFICIALLY categorize people by skin-color,
> Tlaib makes a whole speech demanding more of that,
> then has the audacity to call *Israel* a racist country???!!
> 
> 
> *$#^&#%^#^#&^&$%@#$^@$%^@$%^&#$&##%^#$%^!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry it went over your head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok "teacher" please explain -
> 
> what's good in demanding more characterization of people by skin-color?
> What's good about indulgence in the most blatant form of racism?
> How does it not make you and Tlaib worst hypocrites?
> 
> I really want to know.
Click to expand...

Sure. "Arabs" are not white and do not have that "white privilege." On the other hand, being legally white, they do not get any of the perks that minorities can get in business, education, etc..

They just get left out on both counts.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what??!
> 
> You OFFICIALLY categorize people by skin-color,
> Tlaib makes a whole speech demanding more of that,
> then has the audacity to call *Israel* a racist country???!!
> 
> 
> *$#^&#%^#^#&^&$%@#$^@$%^@$%^&#$&##%^#$%^!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry it went over your head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok "teacher" please explain -
> 
> what's good in demanding more characterization of people by skin-color?
> What's good about indulgence in the most blatant form of racism?
> How does it not make you and Tlaib worst hypocrites?
> 
> I really want to know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. "Arabs" are not white and do not have that "white privilege." On the other hand, being legally white, they do not get any of the perks that minorities can get in business, education, etc..
> 
> They just get left out on both counts.
Click to expand...

P F Tinmore

So you and Tlaib see no problem in categorizing people by skin-color, even demand more,
how is this not blatant racism?

Yet a country where defining by color and race is illegal - you call racist?

*How is this not hypocrisy?*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


*Usual Al-Jazeera lies.*

This village did not exist before Israel.
The first and only mosque build there was in 1979 - 31 years after Israel's reconstitution.

If a US citizen builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, what would happen?
Would you whine about "second-class citizen" because the state won't provide electricity?

There won't be an answer.
*Hypocrisy and nothing more.*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Usual Al-Jazeera lies.*
> 
> This village did not exist before Israel.
> The first and only mosque build there was in 1979 - 31 years after Israel's reconstitution.
> 
> If a US citizen builds a shack in the middle of Central Park, what would happen?
> Would you whine about "second-class citizen" because the state won't provide electricity?
> 
> There won't be an answer.
> *Hypocrisy and nothing more.*
Click to expand...


Nothing to contradict, ah?
Jihadi filth and their useful idiots lie knowingly.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF: * You asked:  Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?   I answered.

I assumed you were talking about the recommendation listed for a two-state outcome in the UN Special Commission on Palestine submission [_essentially A/RES/181 (II)_].   



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  You simply don't pay attention.  The question was asked and answered.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session,  after an intense two-month-long debate,  the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the  Plan of  Partition with  Economic  Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. The plan included: ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ※  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948;​​※  Division  of  Palestine  into  eight  parts:  three  were  allotted  to  the  Arab  State and three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and​​※  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ​
> See:  The Blue Book:  Page 7, of *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The National Council for the Jewish State made application to the UN Palestine Commission _(UNPC)_ for recognition as a provisional government.  And with the coordination with the UNPC _(acting on behalf of the UN)_ National Council established the independence of the Jewish State as it's own sovereign nation → to be know as the State of Israel.
> 
> I'm sure one of the Israeli Citizens could make it much plainer.  But those are the salient points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dancing around my post.
Click to expand...


*(COMMENT)*

You just don't like the answer because it makes the political actions of the Arab Palestinians look inept.  And you cannot speak on the issues.  You can only make an unproductive response.

There is no dancing unless it is on your part.  









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF: * You asked:  Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?   I answered.
> 
> I assumed you were talking about the recommendation listed for a two-state outcome in the UN Special Commission on Palestine submission [_essentially A/RES/181 (II)_].
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  You simply don't pay attention.  The question was asked and answered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At its second regular session,  after an intense two-month-long debate,  the General Assembly, on 29 November 1947, adopted resolution 181 (II), approving with minor changes the  Plan of  Partition with  Economic  Union as proposed by the majority in the Special Committee on Palestine. The partition plan, a detailed four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem. The plan included: ​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> DPI2499 Chapter 2 • The Question of Palestine and the United Nations said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ※  The creation of the Arab and Jewish States, not later than 1 October 1948;​​※  Division  of  Palestine  into  eight  parts:  three  were  allotted  to  the  Arab  State and three to the Jewish State, with the town of Jaffa forming an Arab enclave within Jewish territory, and​​※  An international regime for Jerusalem, the eighth division, to be administered by the United Nations Trusteeship Council.​
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> See:  The Blue Book:  Page 7, of *The Question of Palestine and the United Nations*
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shovel that same Israeli shit all of the time. It is not true.
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The National Council for the Jewish State made application to the UN Palestine Commission _(UNPC)_ for recognition as a provisional government.  And with the coordination with the UNPC _(acting on behalf of the UN)_ National Council established the independence of the Jewish State as it's own sovereign nation → to be know as the State of Israel.
> 
> I'm sure one of the Israeli Citizens could make it much plainer.  But those are the salient points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are dancing around my post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You just don't like the answer because it makes the political actions of the Arab Palestinians look inept.  And you cannot speak on the issues.  You can only make an unproductive response.
> 
> There is no dancing unless it is on your part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_


P F Tinmore said:


> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.


*(CLARIFY)*

I answered the question you asked.

WHAT is it you want?









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

What was my question?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Workers for the United Nations agency UNRWA in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip, prepare food rations to be delivered to the homes of Palestinian refugee families on 31 March, in an effort to avoid people congregating at distribution centers, as a measure to prevent an outbreak of COVID-19 in the densely populated territory.  Ashraf Amra APA images 

On Tuesday evening, Israeli forces confiscated food parcels that were due to be distributed to quarantined families in Sur Baher, a village south of Jerusalem: 

According to Palestinian media, occupation forces raided a school where the parcels were being prepared, detained four members of the local emergency committee and seized 300 food packages. 









						Israel attacks Palestinians as they fight COVID-19
					

Palestinian workers have little protection from surging infections in Israel.




					electronicintifada.net


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  Again, asked and answered.  Those powers that control of the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923​Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​​The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​


P F Tinmore said:


> What was my question?





​


P F Tinmore said:


> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

The Allied Powers.  But the Allied Powers did not actually partition anything.  The recommended that the Jewish Community establish a self-governing institution in accords with their "recommendation."  It was the same recommendation that the Arab Palestinians rejected.

See:  *Posting  #15308*








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Senators call for US coronavirus aid to Gaza
					

Congress voted for aid to Palestinians, but Trump isn't delivering it.




					electronicintifada.net
				




US Senator Bernie Sanders on Sunday highlighted the catastrophic threat of the COVID-19 pandemic to the Gaza Strip.

“Palestinians in Gaza already faced hardship under a blockade. Now they’re dealing with the coronavirus,” the Democratic presidential contender tweeted.

His tweet included a link to a statement from the Israeli human rights group Gisha, which reiterates Israel’s responsibility for the health of the two million people blockaded in the Gaza Strip.

Sanders is one of eight senators who signed a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo last week urging the Trump administration to restore US humanitarian aid to Palestinians.

It was initiated by senators Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Chris Van Hollen of Maryland.

The lawmakers request that Pompeo explain by 3 April what the administration is doing “to help provide the Palestinian people with access to adequate medicine, medical equipment, personnel and other resources to combat the threat of a major coronavirus health crisis.”


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Again, asked and answered.  Those powers that control of the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923​Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​​The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 317946
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers.  But the Allied Powers did not actually partition anything.  The recommended that the Jewish Community establish a self-governing institution in accords with their "recommendation."  It was the same recommendation that the Arab Palestinians rejected.
> 
> See:  *Posting  #15308*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is universally and legally accepted that *sovereignty in the mandatory territories lie in the inhabitants of the territory in question* (Article 22 of the Covenant of The League of Nations). 





__





						Partition and the Law - 1948
					






					www.1948.org.uk
				




The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over the territories. They had no legitimate say over what happened in Palestine.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Again, asked and answered.  Those powers that control of the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 317946
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers.  But the Allied Powers did not actually partition anything.  The recommended that the Jewish Community establish a self-governing institution in accords with their "recommendation."  It was the same recommendation that the Arab Palestinians rejected.
> 
> See:  *Posting  #15308*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is universally and legally accepted that *sovereignty in the mandatory territories lie in the inhabitants of the territory in question* (Article 22 of the Covenant of The League of Nations).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partition and the Law - 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.1948.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over the territories. They had no legitimate say over what happened in Palestine.
Click to expand...


*And you don't see the self-contradiction?*


On the one hand it's the Allied Powers created 'Palestine' as a separate territory unit            - on which you base your whole political narrative for independent sovereignty.


Yet on the other hand, and in the same breath, you reject Allied Powers as the authority to 'Partition of Palestine' which made it an independent territorial unit in the first place.

All that is a desperate attempt to hold the stick by both ends - an internal contradiction,
*which makes no sense whatsoever.*

Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Workers for the United Nations agency UNRWA in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip, prepare food rations to be delivered to the homes of Palestinian refugee families on 31 March, in an effort to avoid people congregating at distribution centers, as a measure to prevent an outbreak of COVID-19 in the densely populated territory.  Ashraf Amra APA images
> 
> On Tuesday evening, Israeli forces confiscated food parcels that were due to be distributed to quarantined families in Sur Baher, a village south of Jerusalem:
> 
> According to Palestinian media, occupation forces raided a school where the parcels were being prepared, detained four members of the local emergency committee and seized 300 food packages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel attacks Palestinians as they fight COVID-19
> 
> 
> Palestinian workers have little protection from surging infections in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> electronicintifada.net



Blatant lies...
What's next the bloody Matzos blood libel?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



She clearly spreads Taqqiyah.
Eid al-Iftar in 2001 was in December.
What the Arabs rejoiced was the attack on US.

The next day they even threatened the AP journalist who took the footage -
showing them joyfully celebrating 911, singing, handing out candy in the streets.

*Palestinians Celebrate Here and in Beirut With Gunfire*
BEIRUT - Palestinians in Lebanon greeted the news of devastating attacks on America
with jubilant gunfire, dancing and cheering...


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:*  Article 22 of the Treaty of Versailles • June 28, 1919 _(AKA:  Covenant of the League of Nations)_ was NOT enforced after 1939.  You cannot use that as a binding Covenant on any member of the Allied Powers.  



P F Tinmore said:


> It is universally and legally accepted that *sovereignty in the mandatory territories lie in the inhabitants of the territory in question* (Article 22 of the Covenant of The League of Nations).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partition and the Law - 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.1948.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over the territories. They had no legitimate say over what happened in Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Once the Mandate terminated, only the Trusteeship (Article 77, UN Charter) applied.

All the same Allied Powers that signed the 1919 League Covenant withdrew between 1933 and 1939.   The Covenant was not binging on any Allied Power at the outbreak of War.  However, the Treaty of Lausanne still had some influence over the High Contracting Parties.



 Article 22 is not applicable for the purposes your attempting to use for here. You can just toss that out the window. By the time the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) was created (1947) any recommendation they made was within international law and the Mandate for Palestine.









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al,_

BLUF:  I knew that if I wrote it enough, I would make a mistake.



rylah said:


> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?


*(COMMENT)*

The Allied Powers had the opportunity to establish sovereignty and deliberately chose NOT TO.  Independence was a matter of Self-Determination on the part of the pro-Arab State and the pro-Jewish State entities.  They did not acquire sovereignty.  BUT, they did maintain effective control.

◈  The "rejection of territory partition" belongs in the Arab Palestinian basket.​​◈  The "independent sovereignty" belongs in the Jewish Council basket.​​◈  By 1945 the UN Trustee System held the Title and Rights by treaty.  This belongs to the Allied Powers Basket.​
The "recommendation" for the territorial partition was not an edict.  BUT, the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.  The UN DID NOT make a partition.  By the time the Israel State was established, the Arab League crossed the frontier effectively ending the planned way in which to implement self-governance.










Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Again, asked and answered.  Those powers that control of the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 317946
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers.  But the Allied Powers did not actually partition anything.  The recommended that the Jewish Community establish a self-governing institution in accords with their "recommendation."  It was the same recommendation that the Arab Palestinians rejected.
> 
> See:  *Posting  #15308*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is universally and legally accepted that *sovereignty in the mandatory territories lie in the inhabitants of the territory in question* (Article 22 of the Covenant of The League of Nations).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partition and the Law - 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.1948.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over the territories. They had no legitimate say over what happened in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *And you don't see the self-contradiction?*
> 
> 
> On the one hand it's the Allied Powers created 'Palestine' as a separate territory unit            - on which you base your whole political narrative for independent sovereignty.
> 
> 
> Yet on the other hand, and in the same breath, you reject Allied Powers as the authority to 'Partition of Palestine' which made it an independent territorial unit in the first place.
> 
> All that is a desperate attempt to hold the stick by both ends - an internal contradiction,
> *which makes no sense whatsoever.*
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
Click to expand...

Do try to keep up.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was my question?
Click to expand...


Just stop it Tinmore. He CLEARLY answered your question and you know it. You're acting extremely childish...


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I knew that if I wrote it enough, I would make a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers had the opportunity to establish sovereignty and deliberately chose NOT TO.  Independence was a matter of Self-Determination on the part of the pro-Arab State and the pro-Jewish State entities.  They did not acquire sovereignty.  BUT, they did maintain effective control.
> 
> ◈  The "rejection of territory partition" belongs in the Arab Palestinian basket.​​◈  The "independent sovereignty" belongs in the Jewish Council basket.​​◈  By 1945 the UN Trustee System held the Title and Rights by treaty.  This belongs to the Allied Powers Basket.​
> The "recommendation" for the territorial partition was not an edict.  BUT, the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.  The UN DID NOT make a partition.  By the time the Israel State was established, the Arab League crossed the frontier effectively ending the planned way in which to implement self-governance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.


Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Do you have a link for that?


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just stop it Tinmore. He CLEARLY answered your question and you know it. You're acting extremely childish...
Click to expand...

So, what was the question?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just stop it Tinmore. He CLEARLY answered your question and you know it. You're acting extremely childish...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what was the question?
Click to expand...



Nice duck. If you don't know what your own question was, you really need to reconsider posting in a political message forum....


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I knew that if I wrote it enough, I would make a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers had the opportunity to establish sovereignty and deliberately chose NOT TO.  Independence was a matter of Self-Determination on the part of the pro-Arab State and the pro-Jewish State entities.  They did not acquire sovereignty.  BUT, they did maintain effective control.
> 
> ◈  The "rejection of territory partition" belongs in the Arab Palestinian basket.​​◈  The "independent sovereignty" belongs in the Jewish Council basket.​​◈  By 1945 the UN Trustee System held the Title and Rights by treaty.  This belongs to the Allied Powers Basket.​
> The "recommendation" for the territorial partition was not an edict.  BUT, the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.  The UN DID NOT make a partition.  By the time the Israel State was established, the Arab League crossed the frontier effectively ending the planned way in which to implement self-governance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...



Is that all you got Tinmore? "Israeli talking point" ? 

Why don't you, for once, post a proper rebuttal... If you can...


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just stop it Tinmore. He CLEARLY answered your question and you know it. You're acting extremely childish...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, what was the question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nice duck. If you don't know what your own question was, you really need to reconsider posting in a political message forum....
Click to expand...

I know what it was.

You don't.


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I knew that if I wrote it enough, I would make a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers had the opportunity to establish sovereignty and deliberately chose NOT TO.  Independence was a matter of Self-Determination on the part of the pro-Arab State and the pro-Jewish State entities.  They did not acquire sovereignty.  BUT, they did maintain effective control.
> 
> ◈  The "rejection of territory partition" belongs in the Arab Palestinian basket.​​◈  The "independent sovereignty" belongs in the Jewish Council basket.​​◈  By 1945 the UN Trustee System held the Title and Rights by treaty.  This belongs to the Allied Powers Basket.​
> The "recommendation" for the territorial partition was not an edict.  BUT, the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.  The UN DID NOT make a partition.  By the time the Israel State was established, the Arab League crossed the frontier effectively ending the planned way in which to implement self-governance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you got Tinmore? "Israeli talking point" ?
> 
> Why don't you, for once, post a proper rebuttal... If you can...
Click to expand...

He makes a claim he can't back up.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Again, asked and answered.  Those powers that control of the future of these territories being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> ARTICLE 16 • Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923
> Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was my question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 317946
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who had the authority to partition of Palestine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers.  But the Allied Powers did not actually partition anything.  The recommended that the Jewish Community establish a self-governing institution in accords with their "recommendation."  It was the same recommendation that the Arab Palestinians rejected.
> 
> See:  *Posting  #15308*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is universally and legally accepted that *sovereignty in the mandatory territories lie in the inhabitants of the territory in question* (Article 22 of the Covenant of The League of Nations).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Partition and the Law - 1948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.1948.org.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The allied powers never acquired sovereignty over the territories. They had no legitimate say over what happened in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *And you don't see the self-contradiction?*
> 
> 
> On the one hand it's the Allied Powers created 'Palestine' as a separate territory unit            - on which you base your whole political narrative for independent sovereignty.
> 
> 
> Yet on the other hand, and in the same breath, you reject Allied Powers as the authority to 'Partition of Palestine' which made it an independent territorial unit in the first place.
> 
> All that is a desperate attempt to hold the stick by both ends - an internal contradiction,
> *which makes no sense whatsoever.*
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do try to keep up.
Click to expand...


I did. Now you try answer that question.
Preferably try make some sense.

Can you?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
The mere existence of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel is proof that the Israelis exercised their "right to self-determination."

BLUF:  *Declaration of Independence S/747 of 16 May 1948*
“WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world...​“HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.”​– _Declaration of the State of Israel, May 14 1948_​
_

_


​


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

Self-Deterrmination is not a "thing" (noun).   Self-Determination is not a verb or an object.  It is a mental state, a purpose that justifies the extraordinary effort to attain some goal or objective.  The Jewish People had it, and they empowered the National Council for the Jewish State to commit the people to that effort.  The did and they accomplished their mission in the establishment of the Jewish State.  It was not pretty, and it did not emulate the workings of a Swiss Watch, but they got it done.  Whereas, → as late as August 1948, the Arab Palestinians were still rejecting offers to engage in the creation of an Arab self-governing institution.  And the conflict we see today is a legacy of August 1948.  You can draw a direct line between the attitude of the Hostile Arab Palestinian of August 1948 and today's multiple fractured Palestinian platforms.








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  toastman,  _et al,_

Yeah, this annoys me as well...



toastman said:


> Is that all you got Tinmore? "Israeli talking point" ?
> 
> Why don't you, for once, post a proper rebuttal... If you can...


*(COMMENT)*

But I would really like to see this list of Israeli Talking Points.








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> The mere existence of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel is proof that the Israelis exercised their "right to self-determination."
> 
> BLUF:  *Declaration of Independence S/747 of 16 May 1948*
> “WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world...​“HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.”​– _Declaration of the State of Israel, May 14 1948_​
> _View attachment 318210_
> View attachment 318212​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-Deterrmination is not a "thing" (noun).   Self-Determination is not a verb or an object.  It is a mental state, a purpose that justifies the extraordinary effort to attain some goal or objective.  The Jewish People had it, and they empowered the National Council for the Jewish State to commit the people to that effort.  The did and they accomplished their mission in the establishment of the Jewish State.  It was not pretty, and it did not emulate the workings of a Swiss Watch, but they got it done.  Whereas, → as late as August 1948, the Arab Palestinians were still rejecting offers to engage in the creation of an Arab self-governing institution.  And the conflict we see today is a legacy of August 1948.  You can draw a direct line between the attitude of the Hostile Arab Palestinian of August 1948 and today's multiple fractured Palestinian platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.

Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?

Link?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> The mere existence of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel is proof that the Israelis exercised their "right to self-determination."
> 
> BLUF:  *Declaration of Independence S/747 of 16 May 1948*
> “WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world...​“HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.”​– _Declaration of the State of Israel, May 14 1948_​
> _View attachment 318210_
> View attachment 318212​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-Deterrmination is not a "thing" (noun).   Self-Determination is not a verb or an object.  It is a mental state, a purpose that justifies the extraordinary effort to attain some goal or objective.  The Jewish People had it, and they empowered the National Council for the Jewish State to commit the people to that effort.  The did and they accomplished their mission in the establishment of the Jewish State.  It was not pretty, and it did not emulate the workings of a Swiss Watch, but they got it done.  Whereas, → as late as August 1948, the Arab Palestinians were still rejecting offers to engage in the creation of an Arab self-governing institution.  And the conflict we see today is a legacy of August 1948.  You can draw a direct line between the attitude of the Hostile Arab Palestinian of August 1948 and today's multiple fractured Palestinian platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


You say....you do.
Arabs say...Arabs do...

Who says it's OK to claim self determination in land one cannot even pronounce?


----------



## rylah

*Say B--haaalestine!*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  Who says this question is correct.

Your question implies that the territory under trusteeship was somehow an entity wherein the Arab Palestinians right of possessing.

That would be false since the Title and Rights to the territory were renounced by the previous sovereign → in favor of the Allied Powers.



P F Tinmore said:


> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?
> 
> Link?


*(COMMENT)*

_The people_, OTOH, suggest that the Allied Powers acting as the Mandate Authority deliberately included the entire population without regard to any other qualifying criteria. 

The Government of Palestine was not a case of it being anything other than a Trusteeship in the hands of the UN, as an artificial political entity in which the

The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.  The territory was governed with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arab Palestinians rejected the policy of gradual constitutional development and working towards the goal to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.​​The SECOND flaw is that the Jewish Agency in their quest for autonomy → or, in some cases, secession → need some sort of authority by a high power to processed with activities leading to their independence and distinct political status All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they free to pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  In the case of the Jewish People 'vs' the Arab Palestinian People, the Jewish need not request permission from the Arab.​
IF the Jewish people are to determine their way of life, it will be necessary for them to decide the laws and policies of their new state.  The prerequisite for the establishment of law is sovereign powers and territorial integrity.  The Arab Palestinians did not establish competing for sovereign powers (none) and territorial integrity (none).  








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?



You always ask questions based on false premises.  The Jewish people did not "go into another country".  The Jewish people have lived in Israel, Judea and Samaria for thousands upon thousands of years.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I knew all that but that was not my question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(CLARIFY)*
> 
> I answered the question you asked.
> 
> WHAT is it you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What was my question?
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, rylah, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  I knew that if I wrote it enough, I would make a mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q. So which one is it, rejection of territory partition, or independent sovereignty?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Allied Powers had the opportunity to establish sovereignty and deliberately chose NOT TO.  Independence was a matter of Self-Determination on the part of the pro-Arab State and the pro-Jewish State entities.  They did not acquire sovereignty.  BUT, they did maintain effective control.
> 
> ◈  The "rejection of territory partition" belongs in the Arab Palestinian basket.​​◈  The "independent sovereignty" belongs in the Jewish Council basket.​​◈  By 1945 the UN Trustee System held the Title and Rights by treaty.  This belongs to the Allied Powers Basket.​
> The "recommendation" for the territorial partition was not an edict.  BUT, the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.  The UN DID NOT make a partition.  By the time the Israel State was established, the Arab League crossed the frontier effectively ending the planned way in which to implement self-governance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that all you got Tinmore? "Israeli talking point" ?
> 
> Why don't you, for once, post a proper rebuttal... If you can...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He makes a claim he can't back up.
Click to expand...

Wrong again. All he does is back up his claims by Yy


P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> The mere existence of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel is proof that the Israelis exercised their "right to self-determination."
> 
> BLUF:  *Declaration of Independence S/747 of 16 May 1948*
> “WE, the members of the National Council, representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the Zionist movement of the world...​“HEREBY PROCLAIM the establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine, to be called ISRAEL.”​– _Declaration of the State of Israel, May 14 1948_​
> _View attachment 318210_
> View attachment 318212​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the Jewish Community chose to exercise the Right of Self-Determination.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.
> 
> Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Self-Deterrmination is not a "thing" (noun).   Self-Determination is not a verb or an object.  It is a mental state, a purpose that justifies the extraordinary effort to attain some goal or objective.  The Jewish People had it, and they empowered the National Council for the Jewish State to commit the people to that effort.  The did and they accomplished their mission in the establishment of the Jewish State.  It was not pretty, and it did not emulate the workings of a Swiss Watch, but they got it done.  Whereas, → as late as August 1948, the Arab Palestinians were still rejecting offers to engage in the creation of an Arab self-governing institution.  And the conflict we see today is a legacy of August 1948.  You can draw a direct line between the attitude of the Hostile Arab Palestinian of August 1948 and today's multiple fractured Palestinian platforms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

What country would that be ?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Who says this question is correct.
> 
> Your question implies that the territory under trusteeship was somehow an entity wherein the Arab Palestinians right of possessing.
> 
> That would be false since the Title and Rights to the territory were renounced by the previous sovereign → in favor of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> _The people_, OTOH, suggest that the Allied Powers acting as the Mandate Authority deliberately included the entire population without regard to any other qualifying criteria.
> 
> The Government of Palestine was not a case of it being anything other than a Trusteeship in the hands of the UN, as an artificial political entity in which the
> 
> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.  The territory was governed with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arab Palestinians rejected the policy of gradual constitutional development and working towards the goal to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.​​The SECOND flaw is that the Jewish Agency in their quest for autonomy → or, in some cases, secession → need some sort of authority by a high power to processed with activities leading to their independence and distinct political status All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they free to pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  In the case of the Jewish People 'vs' the Arab Palestinian People, the Jewish need not request permission from the Arab.​
> IF the Jewish people are to determine their way of life, it will be necessary for them to decide the laws and policies of their new state.  The prerequisite for the establishment of law is sovereign powers and territorial integrity.  The Arab Palestinians did not establish competing for sovereign powers (none) and territorial integrity (none).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Holy smokescreen, Batman.


RoccoR said:


> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.


Got any proof?

Of course not.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

BLUF:  You can ignore the facts.



RoccoR said:


> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> Got any proof?
> 
> Of course not.


*(DOCUMENTATION)*

* TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY*
ARTICLE 16. Turkey hereby renounces *all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries. 

Excerpt:
THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY, JAPAN, GREECE, ROUMANIA and the SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE, of the one part, and TURKEY, of the other part;

*(COMMENT)*

No mention of the Arab Palestinian.

Whoever you thought held the Title and Rights, it was not the Arab Palestinians.









Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  You can ignore the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got any proof?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(DOCUMENTATION)*
> 
> * TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY*
> ARTICLE 16. Turkey hereby renounces *all rights and title* whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.
> 
> Excerpt:
> THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY, JAPAN, GREECE, ROUMANIA and the SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE, of the one part, and TURKEY, of the other part;
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> No mention of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Whoever you thought held the Title and Rights, it was not the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.


Where does it say who these parties are?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:*  You have to get better in your research.

The parties to the Treaty are identified in the Preamble.  It has only been since 2012 that the Arab Palestinian entered into such agreements.
​TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE JULY 24, 1923 THE CONVENTION RESPECTING THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS AND OTHER INSTRUMENTS SIGNED AT LAUSANNE THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY, JAPAN, GREECE, ROUMANIA and the SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE, of the one part, and TURKEY, of the other part; Being united in the desire to bring to a final close the state of war which has existed in the East since 1914,​​


RoccoR said:


> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.





P F Tinmore said:


> Where does it say who these parties are?


*(REFERENCE)*

*Article 2(1) • Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)*
(g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;

*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians were neither organized as a "state" _(applies to treaties between States)_ nor did the Arab Palestinians have an appointment with “full powers” with the competent authority of a State to represent the State for negotiating, and commit to an obligation or concluded agreement between States.








Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> BLUF:  Who says this question is correct.
> 
> Your question implies that the territory under trusteeship was somehow an entity wherein the Arab Palestinians right of possessing.
> 
> That would be false since the Title and Rights to the territory were renounced by the previous sovereign → in favor of the Allied Powers.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, you *always* duck my questions. So let's try another one.
> 
> Who says that it is OK for a people to go into another country and claim self determination?
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> _The people_, OTOH, suggest that the Allied Powers acting as the Mandate Authority deliberately included the entire population without regard to any other qualifying criteria.
> 
> The Government of Palestine was not a case of it being anything other than a Trusteeship in the hands of the UN, as an artificial political entity in which the
> 
> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.  The territory was governed with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arab Palestinians rejected the policy of gradual constitutional development and working towards the goal to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.​​The SECOND flaw is that the Jewish Agency in their quest for autonomy → or, in some cases, secession → need some sort of authority by a high power to processed with activities leading to their independence and distinct political status All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they free to pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  In the case of the Jewish People 'vs' the Arab Palestinian People, the Jewish need not request permission from the Arab.​
> IF the Jewish people are to determine their way of life, it will be necessary for them to decide the laws and policies of their new state.  The prerequisite for the establishment of law is sovereign powers and territorial integrity.  The Arab Palestinians did not establish competing for sovereign powers (none) and territorial integrity (none).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy smokescreen, Batman.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FIRST flaw here is the Title and Rights were NOT in the hands of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Got any proof?
> 
> Of course not.
Click to expand...


and as usual Tinmore, you got nothing but false accusations....
*yawn* you’re boring me !


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Where does it say who these parties are?



You are so infuriating because you are either flat out wrong or utterly clueless 90% of the time, but every once in a while you actually hit upon an important point.  

And this is one of those times.  While Rocco is (imo) entirely correct in his post, there is another way to approach the problem.  For the first time in history, the idea of self-determination of peoples was being formed and the concept began to creep into international humanitarian and customary law.  

So who *were* the "parties concerned"?  

I think it is entirely valid to suggest that the "parties concerned" were not only the Allied Powers, and the State chosen as trustee for the territory, but also the the peoples whose right to self-determination was an emerging consideration.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  You have to get better in your research.
> 
> The parties to the Treaty are identified in the Preamble.  It has only been since 2012 that the Arab Palestinian entered into such agreements.
> ​TREATY OF PEACE WITH TURKEY SIGNED AT LAUSANNE JULY 24, 1923 THE CONVENTION RESPECTING THE REGIME OF THE STRAITS AND OTHER INSTRUMENTS SIGNED AT LAUSANNE THE BRITISH EMPIRE, FRANCE, ITALY, JAPAN, GREECE, ROUMANIA and the SERB-CROAT-SLOVENE STATE, of the one part, and TURKEY, of the other part; Being united in the desire to bring to a final close the state of war which has existed in the East since 1914,​​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where does it say who these parties are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> *Article 2(1) • Vienna Convention Law Treaties (1969 - EIF:1980)*
> (g) “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were neither organized as a "state" _(applies to treaties between States)_ nor did the Arab Palestinians have an appointment with “full powers” with the competent authority of a State to represent the State for negotiating, and commit to an obligation or concluded agreement between States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are running on the assumption that the parties of the treaty were the only parties in the world, but look at the facts.

The allied powers created new states in the territory of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They did not annex the territories and never claimed any sovereignty.

The territory was transferred to the new states. The people of those new states would be the sovereigns in their respective territory. They would be the citizens of their new state.

Now, which people would be the parties concerned?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, Shusha, _et al,_

*BLUF:*  You have confused those "parties" bound by the treaty _(the signatories)_ with those populations "affected" _(sympathetic impact)_ by the treaty.



P F Tinmore said:


> Now, which people would be the parties concerned?


*(COMMENT)*

Within the scope of the Mandate for Palestine, defined as the territory subject to the _Palestine Order in Council_, there were no foreign self-governing states _(let alone a sovereign government ruled by Arab Palestinians west of the Jordan River)_.



​There were no self-governing or autonomous political subdivisions in the Region under discussion.

During the period, covered by the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) the princple advocate on the side of the regional Arabs was  Hussein bin Ali,                  Grand Sharif of Mecca, King of the Hejaz, and his son, Hashemite Prince Abdullah.  And Prince Abduallah's advocacy paid-off, because he became the Emir of Tranjordan and later the First Sovereign over the Hashemite  Kingdom of Jordan.  It did not come easy, the the step approach was successful.  On the other hand, the Arab Palestinian approach was characterized by threats to use of force, which escalated to the use of force, in the struggle for territorial and political independence were unsuccessful. 

In the context that we are discussing here, the Arab Palestinians had rejected three attempts made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  Like I said before, the child-like attitude exhibited by them and the demand of the Mandate to relinquish the entirety of the remaining territory estblish an unacceptable threshold for which the British would hold with resolve.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_

*BLUF:*  WOW, At first glance, it seems we are in agreement with the set of facts; BUT, we are in disagreement that the Arab Palestinians were a "party to the treaty."



P F Tinmore said:


> You are running on the assumption that the parties of the treaty were the only parties in the world, but look at the facts.
> 
> The allied powers created new states in the territory of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They did not annex the territories and never claimed any sovereignty.
> 
> The territory was transferred to the new states. The people of those new states would be the sovereigns in their respective territory. They would be the citizens of their new state.
> 
> Now, which people would be the parties concerned?


*(COMMENT)*

Just because the Mandatories eventually allowed the creation of sovereign and self-governing institutions does not make them a "party to the treaty."

The Arab Palestinians cannot claim that the Mandatory owed a direct obligation other than to ensure that the population was NOT stateless.  Furthermore, once the Mandatory withdrew and ended their part of the Mandate, nothing of the treaty was binding pursuant to the governance.

One more point needs to be made and made hard:  

◈  NO matter how much sympathy you have for the Arab Palestinians,​◈  NO matter how many wrongs you perceive the Israelis have committed,​◈  NO external entity owed the Arab Palestinian obligation what so ever - once they opened up hostilities.​
Once the Arab League forces cross their frontier all the sequences of events afterward were a direct result of a LACK of any determination on the part of the Arab Palestinian to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore, _et al,_
> 
> *BLUF:*  WOW, At first glance, it seems we are in agreement with the set of facts; BUT, we are in disagreement that the Arab Palestinians were a "party to the treaty."
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are running on the assumption that the parties of the treaty were the only parties in the world, but look at the facts.
> 
> The allied powers created new states in the territory of the defunct Ottoman Empire. They did not annex the territories and never claimed any sovereignty.
> 
> The territory was transferred to the new states. The people of those new states would be the sovereigns in their respective territory. They would be the citizens of their new state.
> 
> Now, which people would be the parties concerned?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Just because the Mandatories eventually allowed the creation of sovereign and self-governing institutions does not make them a "party to the treaty."
> 
> The Arab Palestinians cannot claim that the Mandatory owed a direct obligation other than to ensure that the population was NOT stateless.  Furthermore, once the Mandatory withdrew and ended their part of the Mandate, nothing of the treaty was binding pursuant to the governance.
> 
> One more point needs to be made and made hard:
> 
> ◈  NO matter how much sympathy you have for the Arab Palestinians,​◈  NO matter how many wrongs you perceive the Israelis have committed,​◈  NO external entity owed the Arab Palestinian obligation what so ever - once they opened up hostilities.​
> Once the Arab League forces cross their frontier all the sequences of events afterward were a direct result of a LACK of any determination on the part of the Arab Palestinian to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> BUT, we are in disagreement that the Arab Palestinians were a "party to the treaty."


I didn't say they were.

Try again.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

IOF opens fire at farmers and fishermen in Gaza
					

Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Saturday morning opened fire at Palestinian farmers and fishermen in the Gaza Strip with no reported casualties.




					english.palinfo.com
				




GAZA, (PIC)

Israeli occupation forces (IOF) on Saturday morning opened fire at Palestinian farmers and fishermen in the Gaza Strip with no reported casualties.

Local sources said that the IOF in the morning heavily fired live ammunition and tear gas bombs at Palestinian farmers and shepherds working in their lands east of Khan Yunis and Rafah, south of the Gaza Strip.

Meanwhile, Israeli gunboats attacked fishermen sailing off the shore of northern Gaza.

No injuries were reported in the attacks. 

  Read more at  
IOF opens fire at farmers and fishermen in Gaza
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian teacher broadcasts an electronic lesson as students stay at home to halt the spread of the novel Coronavirus in Gaza. Photo by Mahmoud Ajjour.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mai Qudaih picks tomatoes at her farm in Khan Yunis, southern Gaza Strip. Photo by Ashraf Amra.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces (IOF) at dawn Friday kidnapped five Palestinians, including Jerusalem affairs minister, from their homes in the West Bank and Jerusalem.

Local sources said that at daybreak the IOF stormed Sawwana village in Jerusalem, arrested Palestinian minister for Jerusalem affairs Fadi al-Hidmi from his home, and transferred him to an Israeli interrogation center.

Local residents said that the IOF raided the house while accompanied by police dogs, smashed doors and windows, and seized a sum of money estimated at 10,000 NIS.

  Read more at  
Minister among five Palestinians arrested in West Bank raids
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Abdelrahman Shteiwi, 9, with his mother at their home in the northern West Bank village of Kafr Qaddum. The child was shot in the head with live ammunition fired by Israeli soldiers in July last year and remains immobile and unable to speak. Photo by Keren Manor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Because of the coronavirus lockdown, a Palestinian grocery owner in Ramallah has left these free vegetable boxes near his shop with a note saying "take what you need".


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*COVID313 Family and Student Virtual Town Hall | Rashida Tlaib & Debbie Stabenow Week 2 Highlights

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli occupation forces destroy a Palestinian industrial facility in al-Khalil, Occupied West Bank, today. Photo by Mashhour Wahwah.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli police kidnap J’lem mayor Adnan Ghaith from his home
					

The Israeli occupation police on Sunday morning kidnaped Jerusalem mayor Adnan Ghaith from his home in Silwan district, south of the Aqsa Mosque in the holy city.




					english.palinfo.com
				




OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)

The Israeli occupation police on Sunday morning kidnaped Jerusalem mayor Adnan Ghaith from his home in Silwan district, south of the Aqsa Mosque in the holy city.

According to local sources, police forces and intelligence officers stormed and ransacked the house of mayor Ghaith and detained him, with no known reason.

Ghaith has been arrested and interrogated several times since he became the Jerusalem mayor. He is also banned from entering the West Bank and communicating with certain people.

  Read more at 
Israeli police kidnap J’lem mayor Adnan Ghaith from his home
@Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Land Day: Palestinians never forget
					

The Palestinians in Occupied Palestine and the diaspora every year, on 30 March, commemorate the Land Day when Israeli forces in 1976 killed six Palestinians protesting against land confiscation in the Galilee.




					english.palinfo.com
				




OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)

The Palestinians in Occupied Palestine and the diaspora every year, on 30 March, commemorate the Land Day when Israeli forces in 1976 killed six Palestinians protesting against land confiscation in the Galilee.

Land Day has become an important event in the Palestinian collective narrative which emphasizes Palestinian resistance to Israeli colonization.

Land Day is usually marked with mass demonstrations and tree-planting campaigns in areas threatened with illegal confiscation in favor of Israeli settlement expansion.

In 2018, the Palestinians in the besieged Gaza Strip launched a major event to commemorate the Land Day called the Great March of Return (peaceful protests along the border between the Gaza Strip and the Palestinian territories occupied since 1948).

  Read more at  
Land Day: Palestinians never forget
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli aircrafts spray Gaza farmlands with toxic chemicals
					

The Israeli occupation authority (IOA) on Sunday sprayed once again toxic herbicides on farmlands near the border fence in the east of Gaza City.




					english.palinfo.com
				




GAZA, (PIC)

The Israeli occupation authority (IOA) on Sunday sprayed once again toxic herbicides on farmlands near the border fence in the east of Gaza City.

Local farmers from al-Zeitoun and Johr al-Dik areas of Gaza City reported that Israeli agricultural aircrafts sprayed toxic chemicals on vast tracts of land planted with wheat, barley, corn, okra, molokhia (corchorus olitorius) and other crops, affirming the chemical spray caused widespread damage to the crops.

The farmers said that the Israeli measure caused them heavy financial losses and poisoned the agricultural environment in the area. 

  Read more at  
Israeli aircrafts spray Gaza farmlands with toxic chemicals
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This cartoon is cute, but a poor analogy.  This is about the idea that Israel is using excessive combat power in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

*BLUF:* Bullshit...




P F Tinmore said:


> ...


*(COMMENT)*

This topic is really a propaganda effort to change the discussion:

◈  *FROM:*  Rule 23 -- to avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​​​◈  *TO:*  Rule 14 -- the question of excessive force in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.​
The concrete and direct military objective is to make the hostile action _(rocket launches)_ by the Arab Palestinians so costly that it totally suppresses hostile rocket fire as a tactic _(criminal acts committed hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to further ideological goal)_. 

*IF* the hostile Arab Palestinians continue to launch rocket as a tactic to coerce the Israel government, 
*THEN*  the first application of fire was insufficient and additional targeted missions are necessary.

This brings up the issue of the HoAP using the general population as cover and concealment of rocket launches _(human shields)_ (see Rule 97) as a preventative measure against Israeli counter-fire.   The HoAP intentionally avoid their responsibility to do everything feasible must be done to separate military objectives from the civilian population.



P F Tinmore said:


> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.


*(COMMENT)*

The HoAP insurgency has grown and evolved since the time of the Six-Day War (1967) to the present.  It has many heads that present themselves as Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  They do so as an effort calculated to create and "disrupt" the safe atmosphere of fear in the minds of the Israeli citizen.  The Israelis want to change the paradigm one in which rocket fire is a fact of daily life to one that is safe and secure.  The HoAP has the exact opposite as an objective in mind.   

The real agenda, obscured by the HoAP, is to obscure the fact that the HoAP are violating two international laws:

◈    The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I.​​◈  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; set forth in Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I. ​​◈  1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, set forth in A/RES/52/164.​HoAP indiscriminately launch against a place of public use, with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury or cause extensive destruction.  ​​Finally, the use of armed force by the HoAP against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of Israel is, without question, the very image of the aggressor.
​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ◈ *TO:* Rule 14 -- the question of excessive force in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.


What direct military advantage are they anticipating?

Take out Hamas? Fail!

Stop rockets? Fail!

Bomb the shit out of a lot of civilians? Ahh, there you go!


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents,


People attempting to go back to their own homes are called insurgents.

Israel is soooooooooo full of shit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today?
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> This cartoon is cute, but a poor analogy.  This is about the idea that Israel is using excessive combat power in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
> 
> *BLUF:* Bullshit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> View attachment 319814
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This topic is really a propaganda effort to change the discussion:
> 
> ◈  *FROM:*  Rule 23 -- to avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​View attachment 319822​​​​◈  *TO:*  Rule 14 -- the question of excessive force in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.​
> The concrete and direct military objective is to make the hostile action _(rocket launches)_ by the Arab Palestinians so costly that it totally suppresses hostile rocket fire as a tactic _(criminal acts committed hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) to further ideological goal)_.
> 
> *IF* the hostile Arab Palestinians continue to launch rocket as a tactic to coerce the Israel government,
> *THEN*  the first application of fire was insufficient and additional targeted missions are necessary.
> 
> This brings up the issue of the HoAP using the general population as cover and concealment of rocket launches _(human shields)_ (see Rule 97) as a preventative measure against Israeli counter-fire.   The HoAP intentionally avoid their responsibility to do everything feasible must be done to separate military objectives from the civilian population.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are still implying that the Palestinians are the aggressors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The HoAP insurgency has grown and evolved since the time of the Six-Day War (1967) to the present.  It has many heads that present themselves as Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters.  They do so as an effort calculated to create and "disrupt" the safe atmosphere of fear in the minds of the Israeli citizen.  The Israelis want to change the paradigm one in which rocket fire is a fact of daily life to one that is safe and secure.  The HoAP has the exact opposite as an objective in mind.
> 
> The real agenda, obscured by the HoAP, is to obscure the fact that the HoAP are violating two international laws:
> 
> ◈    The prohibition of indiscriminate attacks is set forth in Article 51(4) of Additional Protocol I.​​◈  Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas; set forth in Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I. ​​◈  1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings, set forth in A/RES/52/164.​HoAP indiscriminately launch against a place of public use, with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury or cause extensive destruction.  ​​Finally, the use of armed force by the HoAP against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of Israel is, without question, the very image of the aggressor.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Finally, the use of armed force by the HoAP against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of Israel is, without question, the very image of the aggressor.


What Israeli border have the Palestinian ever crossed?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: * You are* absolutely, and without question → *correct.*



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *TO:* Rule 14 -- the question of excessive force in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
> 
> 
> 
> What direct military advantage are they anticipating?
> 
> Take out Hamas? Fail!
> 
> Stop rockets? Fail!
> 
> Bomb the shit out of a lot of civilians? Ahh, there you go!
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

So, what is the solution?

Increase the fire-power applied, or increase the number of sortes; or both.  They should gradually increase until the Arab Palestinians comply with the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States _(the military expectation)_.  _(A/RES/25/2625)_ 





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Our tax money at work. Or just flushed down the toilet.

*FBI Opened Terrorism Investigations Into Nonviolent Palestinian Solidarity Group, Documents Reveal*

It is clear, however, that the FBI conducted at least two major investigations into ISM. In addition to the international terrorism investigation into the two St. Louis activists, the FBI’s Los Angeles Field Office initiated a domestic security investigation into ISM as an organization. 

The LA investigation into ISM also touched offices beyond those at the Washington meeting. During the investigation, agents in Chicago; Springfield, Illinois; Boston; Minneapolis; Atlanta; Richmond, Virginia; Cleveland; Houston; San Francisco; and elsewhere all followed leads, gathered evidence, and in at least on case conducted physical surveillance. In a number of instances, local police aided these efforts. 

Nothing in the documents suggests any of these investigations ever resulted in criminal charges. Instead, the documents reveal sprawling investigations involving FBI field offices in multiple states and the national headquarters, as well as local law enforcement. FBI agents resorted not only to confidential informants and physical surveillance, but a scandal-prone unit formed in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks accessed the phone records of at least one activist. In both investigations, the FBI relied heavily on biased right-wing publications making fantastical claims of questionable veracity. 

It seems the FBI’s investigation resulted in little more than thousands of pages of documents that did little other than to make the FBI itself perhaps the greatest threat, by spying on First Amendment-protected speech. 









						FBI Opened Terrorism Investigations Into Nonviolent Palestinian Solidarity Group
					

The FBI investigated the International Solidarity Movement for nothing more than First Amendment-protected protests against Israel’s occupation.




					theintercept.com


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*
insurgency — The organized use of subversion and violence to seize, nullify, or challenge political control of a region. Insurgency can also refer to the group itself. _(_*JP 3-24*_)_



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents,
> 
> 
> 
> People attempting to go back to their own homes are called insurgents.
> 
> Israel is soooooooooo full of shit.
Click to expand...

*(COMMENT)*

◈  What is the United Nations definition of a refugee?
​✦  A refugee is someone who has been *forced to flee his or her country because of persecution, war or violence.* A refugee has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Most likely, they cannot return home or are afraid to do so. War and ethnic, tribal and religious violence are leading causes of refugees fleeing their countries.​​*✦  IF* you Recognize the boundaries of Israel *THEN* you must be at least 70 years old, and actually took part in the flight from Israeli controlled territory. The term Refugee does not cover descendants of a Palestine Refugee. They did not flee or were forced out.​◈  Who is an internally displaced person?
​✦  An internally displaced person, or IDP, is someone who has been forced to flee their home but never cross an international border. These individuals seek safety anywhere they can find it—in nearby towns, schools, settlements, internal camps, even forests and fields. IDPs, which include people displaced by internal strife and natural disasters, are the largest group that UNHCR assists. Unlike refugees,* IDPs are not protected by international law or eligible to receive many types of aid *because they are legally under the protection of their own government.​
*✦  IF* you do "NOT Recognize" the territorial integrity of Israel and consider the entirety of the territory from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, and from Lebanon to Egypt.  Palestinian people *THEN* you are an internally displaced person _(_*not protected by international law or eligible to receive many types of aid)*.​​I often have to have any Palestinian I'm talking to, to define their terms. * IF *the include descendant of a Palestine Refugees, *THEN* you are discussing IDPs, not refugees. It is like the position the Palestine PLO-NAD considers the 1967 border, which is defined as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modifications thereto up to 4 June 1967, is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine. However, there are other factions that consider the border differently and still under the Permanent Status of Negotiations.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today?
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF: * You are* absolutely, and without question → *correct.*
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ◈ *TO:* Rule 14 -- the question of excessive force in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
> 
> 
> 
> What direct military advantage are they anticipating?
> 
> Take out Hamas? Fail!
> 
> Stop rockets? Fail!
> 
> Bomb the shit out of a lot of civilians? Ahh, there you go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> So, what is the solution?
> 
> Increase the fire-power applied, or increase the number of sortes; or both.  They should gradually increase until the Arab Palestinians comply with the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States _(the military expectation)_.  _(A/RES/25/2625)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel has been trying to shoot its way out of a political problem for over 70 years. Obviously this has not worked and I see no success in the future.

The solution is to follow international law and UN resolutions.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  You know that is a half-truth at best.



P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has been trying to shoot its way out of a political problem for over 70 years. Obviously this has not worked and I see no success in the future.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, that all depends on how you measure.  →  What metrics you are using. I observe that those Israeli people and their capabilities to tackle a challenge.  And then again   →  ultimate criteria for assessing the development of their country _(technically, academically and industrially)_ must also include both cultural and economic growth.  

The gunplay between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians has taken a back-seat to the Hostile Drama that unfolds every day in the external territories of the chaos and shadowing retro-development of the Arab Palestinian.  

There is one more major difference between the Israeli and the external territories under dispute.  While they make a grandstand about International Law - and UN Resolutions.   They wake up every morning under oversight because they tell themselves each day that it is entirely proper killing Israelis and hold a complete lack of *remorse* or empathy for those that fall to the hand of an Arab Palestinian.  

The Arab Palestinian have to be shown the law, and then they ignore it.  It seems that the Rule of Law does not stick to them because they have been told they have a special dispensation.  There is NO LAW or JUSTIFICATION that can be used to substantiate Arab Palestinian criminal activity.



P F Tinmore said:


> The solution is to follow international law and UN resolutions.


*(COMMENT)*

I do not think that this is a focused response.  I've seen what the pro-Arab Palestinians hold out as the "List of International Law Violations by the State of Israel." I'm not impressed.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today?
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You know that is a half-truth at best.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has been trying to shoot its way out of a political problem for over 70 years. Obviously this has not worked and I see no success in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Well, that all depends on how you measure.  →  What metrics you are using. I observe that those Israeli people and their capabilities to tackle a challenge.  And then again   →  ultimate criteria for assessing the development of their country _(technically, academically and industrially)_ must also include both cultural and economic growth.
> 
> The gunplay between the Israelis and the Arab Palestinians has taken a back-seat to the Hostile Drama that unfolds every day in the external territories of the chaos and shadowing retro-development of the Arab Palestinian.
> 
> There is one more major difference between the Israeli and the external territories under dispute.  While they make a grandstand about International Law - and UN Resolutions.   They wake up every morning under oversight because they tell themselves each day that it is entirely proper killing Israelis and hold a complete lack of *remorse* or empathy for those that fall to the hand of an Arab Palestinian.
> 
> The Arab Palestinian have to be shown the law, and then they ignore it.  It seems that the Rule of Law does not stick to them because they have been told they have a special dispensation.  There is NO LAW or JUSTIFICATION that can be used to substantiate Arab Palestinian criminal activity.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The solution is to follow international law and UN resolutions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I do not think that this is a focused response.  I've seen what the pro-Arab Palestinians hold out as the "List of International Law Violations by the State of Israel." I'm not impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice rant.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib | 14th Annual Interfaith Conference

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








That *"unprecedented religious and cultural harmony"*
Arabs LOVE so much to lie about....

Q. Harmony much?

In fact, I challenge anyone to find any case of a Zionist ever shooting a bullet,
or any form of Jewish aggression prior to the* Arab pogroms*.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Gaza factory manufactures Israel's coronavirus protective gear*

The factory manufactures around 20,000 face masks and some 2,000 protective suits daily, with all of its medical production delivered to Israel. Bawab told Ynet that, although the amount of Israeli importers he has signed contracts with is rising, the product is not provided to Israeli hospitals directly.









						Gaza factory manufactures Israel's coronavirus protective gear
					

Despite rising demand, Bawab said that he has yet to receive orders from the Palestinian market in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.




					www.jpost.com


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Today we remember the six Palestinians who were killed by Israeli occupation forces while protesting Israeli theft of Palestinian land on the first Land Day on 30 March 1976.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An empty street in the Old City of Jerusalem as residents are ordered to stay at home during the coronavirus crisis. Photo by Marwa Majed.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Oh you poor Jihadi shill...

Wonder why they always blurr those stamps?
Because even on them it ALWAYS said "LAND OF ISRAEL" both in Hebrew and Arabic:






Including the birth certificates - says "LAND OF ISRAEL" in Hebrew and Arabic:






That currency that idiot Arabs present as "Palestinian" says "LAND OF ISRAEL",
and was issued by Bank Leumi














						Know Your History: Those Palestine Mandate Coins 1927-1948
					

Because history is on our side




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## rylah

*Know Your History: Even the Term “Free Palestine” Was Co-opted From the Jews*

_“Free, free Palestine!”_
These are the words shouted out by Israel haters worldwide, more often than not an expression of their wish for the destruction of the state of Israel.

But did you know the first use of the words “Free Palestine” were for the exact opposite objective?





American League for a Free Palestine (ALFP) was created in July 1944, by Peter H Bergson (formerly Hillel Kook), for the purpose of supporting and funding his Hebrew Committee of National Liberation in Palestine. The ALFP attracted Jewish and non-Jewish members from all occupations, but especially those in politics and entertainment. The ALFP’s most notable achievement was the work of award winning playwright and director Ben Hecht, a member of the league. Hecht wrote A Flag is Born to propagandize the cause by comparing the fight for a free Palestine against the British to the American Revolution. With money raised from the production of the play, the league purchased a boat for the aliyah of Holocaust survivors from France. The group dissolved in December 1948 as the goal of the league had been achieved.

Do you think the Jews of the time would have named their movement this way had there been a distinguishable group of Arabs identifying as “palestinians”, who had run a state called “Palestine”?









						Know Your History: Even the Term "Free Palestine" Was Co-opted From the Jews
					

"Free, free Palestine!"These are the words shouted out by Israel haters worldwide, more often than not an expression of their wish for the destruction of the state of Israel. But did you know the first use of the words "Free Palestine" were for the exact opposite objective?




					www.israellycool.com


----------



## rylah

*TODAY WE REMEMBER - THE 190 VICTIMS OF *
*THE** ARAB SUICIDE BOMBING ON PASSOVER*

During the Jewish holiday of Passover in 2002, Park Hotel in the Israeli coastal city of Netanya held its traditional annual Passover seder for its 250 guests, in the hotel dining room located at the ground floor of the hotel.






On the evening of 27 March 2002, a Palestinian bomber, Abdel-Basset Odeh (or Abd Al-Baset Odeh), disguised as a woman approached the hotel carrying a suitcase which contained powerful explosives.

The suicide bomber managed to pass the security guard at the entrance to a hotel, then he walked through the lobby passing the reception desk and entered the hotel's crowded dining room. 






Passover Suicide Bombing


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF:*  Absolutely NO Context.  The photo does not speak for itself.



P F Tinmore said:


>


 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

*Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel*

Yaser Mazhar, the Director of the Communications Department of the Muhjat Al-Quds Foundation, was interviewed on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad - Gaza), which is headquartered in Lebanon. Mazhar and the show host, Majed Al-Babili, discussed the 1996 suicide bombing at Dizengoff Center in Tel Aviv that killed 13 people and injured 130 others. 

Saying that the Islamic Jihad had carried out the operation, they praised the terrorist and terrorists who have carried out similar attacks, and Mazhar said that martyrdom operations bring a lot of joy to the Palestinian people. He recalled how Palestinians have handed out sweets throughout their provinces in celebration of terrorist attacks, and he called on Palestinians in the West Bank to carry out terrorist attacks in Israel. 

Al-Majli added: "What was taken by force can only be taken back by force." The Muhjat Al-Quds Foundation offers aid to the families of Palestinian terrorists who were killed or who are imprisoned. 

*March 16 2020*


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF: * This is yet another example of misinformation -  inaccurate and is deliberately intended to deceive the reader.




P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

Of course, it says "Palestine" in → 1930.  That is what the civil government was called.  Israel did not come into existence until 1948.
​

			
				Report on the Administration of Palestine for 1923 said:
			
		

> 1.  _Question._--What measures have been taken to place the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the national home for the Jewish people?
> 
> What are the effects of these measures?
> 
> _Answer._--The legislation of the *Government of Palestine* has been directed towards the general aim of providing equal opportunity for all communities and classes, and encouraging enterprise.



 This is the same Government of Palestine in which the British Government attempt three times to bring Arab Representation to the administration.  The Arabs rejected the participation all three times.                     




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is yet another example of misinformation -  inaccurate and is deliberately intended to deceive the reader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, it says "Palestine" in → 1930.  That is what the civil government was called.  Israel did not come into existence until 1948.
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Report on the Administration of Palestine for 1923 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _Question._--What measures have been taken to place the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the national home for the Jewish people?​​What are the effects of these measures?​​_Answer._--The legislation of the *Government of Palestine* has been directed towards the general aim of providing equal opportunity for all communities and classes, and encouraging enterprise.​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> This is the same Government of Palestine in which the British Government attempt three times to bring Arab Representation to the administration.  The Arabs rejected the participation all three times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> This is the same Government of Palestine in which the British Government attempt three times to bring Arab Representation to the administration. The Arabs rejected the participation all three times.


The poison pill in all of these offers is that the Palestinians had to agree with the British/Zionist settler colonial project. The Palestinians are still rejecting that settler colonial project.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * This is yet another example of misinformation -  inaccurate and is deliberately intended to deceive the reader.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Of course, it says "Palestine" in → 1930.  That is what the civil government was called.  Israel did not come into existence until 1948.
> ​
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Report on the Administration of Palestine for 1923 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  _Question._--What measures have been taken to place the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the national home for the Jewish people?​​What are the effects of these measures?​​_Answer._--The legislation of the *Government of Palestine* has been directed towards the general aim of providing equal opportunity for all communities and classes, and encouraging enterprise.​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​
> This is the same Government of Palestine in which the British Government attempt three times to bring Arab Representation to the administration.  The Arabs rejected the participation all three times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same Government of Palestine in which the British Government attempt three times to bring Arab Representation to the administration. The Arabs rejected the participation all three times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The poison pill in all of these offers is that the Palestinians had to agree with the British/Zionist settler colonial project. The Palestinians are still rejecting that settler colonial project.
Click to expand...







By _*'the Palestinians'*_ you mean those Arabs who fought on the side of the Brits,
and tried to set control of an Arabian king from Mecca over the land,
or the Arabs who can't even pronounce 'P-alestine'?


----------



## rylah

*Hamas Leader: Palestine for us is Like a Toothpick. 
Our Goals are Much Bigger i.e. Global Caliphate*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Absolutely NO Context.  The photo does not speak for itself.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It only makes sense if you know history.


----------



## P F Tinmore

More Israeli armed robbery.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


>


Look at the date . It says 1930. Israel came into existence in 1948. It amazes me that I have to explain that to you


----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the date . It says 1930. Israel came into existence in 1948. It amazes me that I have to explain that to you
Click to expand...

Indeed, Israel did not occupy Palestine until 1948.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, Israel did not occupy Palestine until 1948.


Yeah sure, what would you have without these idiotic soundbytes?

That's like saying St. Petersburg "occupies" Leningrad.


----------



## rylah

*Who profits from the industry of lies known as the "occupation?"*


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

*What is it BALESTINE?*


----------



## toastman

There 


P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the date . It says 1930. Israel came into existence in 1948. It amazes me that I have to explain that to you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, Israel did not occupy Palestine until 1948.
Click to expand...

There was nothing to occupy . Israel is a legit country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Al-Lubban ash-Sharqiya village, south of Nablus, Occupied West Bank. Photo by Wajed Nobani.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Dozens of Palestinians march in the funeral of Mohammed Hamayel, 15, who was shot dead by Israeli occupation forces this morning in Nablus.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Spring is almost here!
 The sun rises over the magical hills of Wadi al-Bireh in Lower Galilee, Occupied Palestine. Photo by Raed Omar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli forces use heavy machinery to lift and confiscate a shipping container used as a classroom in the West Bank village of Susiya. Photo by Mosab Shawer.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.



In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:

1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.  

Good to see you acknowledging that.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

From the heart of #Gaza City, this place called Al-Saraya is an escape for tens of Palestinians from the brutal life they live under blockade.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli military shooting up unarmed civilians again, still.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



_"Palestinian culture" _*™ *

Q. Maybe you can explain how come the most famous "Palestinian" literary work,
happened to be written by Jews - six centuries before the Arab invasion?

*Palestinian Talmud - is a collection of Rabbinic notes on the second-century 
Jewish oral tradition known as the Mishnah.  - **Wikipedia*


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli military shooting up unarmed civilians again, still.



Pallywood sure gives hope to unemployed actors...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>








Khaled Mashal= $2.6 Billion
Yasser Arafat= $3 Billion
Ismail Haniyeh= $3.5 Billion
Mahmoud Abbas= $1.5 Billion

The realities of Islam-istan...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*New Documentary-U.S. Veterans Witness Brutal Reality for Ahed Tamimi and Palestinians

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *New Documentary-U.S. Veterans Witness Brutal Reality for Ahed Tamimi and Palestinians
> 
> *


P F Tinnmore sure LOVES his nazi propaganda:

The father:











And the children:


----------



## rylah

The mother :










And the daughter: *Tamimi Calls for Stabbing and Suicide Attacks*


----------



## rylah

*Hamas sentenced a comedian from Rafah to 1.5 years in prison for mocking the organization*

Gaza military court issued the sentence over the weekend after comedian Adel Al-Mashuhi was charged with hurting religious sentiments and disgraceful behavior.

The problem for Hamas is the "mocking"...
Not the throwing of opposition from the rooftops, 
and of course not the public executions in the main square.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

BLUF:  When I see one of these Propaganda Shots and the distortion, they immediately lose me.



P F Tinmore said:


> *New Documentary-U.S. Veterans Witness Brutal Reality for Ahed Tamimi and Palestinians*


*(COMMENT)*

We do not get to see the event that precipitates the "Arrest."  What we do see is a lone Police Officer being mauled by women and teens as the Police Office tries to hold on to the child.  It appears that both the Mother and Ahed are in close contact trying to effect the escape by the suspect.

What is interesting is that the apprehension is well documented, but the event that started the fray is not shown.  You get the feeling the incident was engineered and staged → as to get the propaganda video.

One has to ask, how did the Palestinians get close to the Police, and why that the only adult males in the video are camera and news video records all around the event, but not engaged.

And there it is:



That poor sad Marine Captain, and his impression of the use of "non-lethal" methods to disburse the confrontation.

Just My Impression,




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> BLUF:  When I see one of these Propaganda Shots and the distortion, they immediately lose me.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *New Documentary-U.S. Veterans Witness Brutal Reality for Ahed Tamimi and Palestinians*
> View attachment 323291
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We do not get to see the event that precipitates the "Arrest."  What we do see is a lone Police Officer being mauled by women and teens as the Police Office tries to hold on to the child.  It appears that both the Mother and Ahed are in close contact trying to effect the escape by the suspect.
> 
> What is interesting is that the apprehension is well documented, but the event that started the fray is not shown.  You get the feeling the incident was engineered and staged → as to get the propaganda video.
> 
> One has to ask, how did the Palestinians get close to the Police, and why that the only adult males in the video are camera and news video records all around the event, but not engaged.
> 
> And there it is:View attachment 323295
> 
> That poor sad Marine Captain, and his impression of the use of "non-lethal" methods to disburse the confrontation.
> 
> Just My Impression,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> BLUF: When I see one of these Propaganda Shots and the distortion, they immediately lose me.


What distortion?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:
> 
> 1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.
> 
> Good to see you acknowledging that.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> 1. The "protests" are NOT non-violent.


The protests are always non violent until the riot police come to start a riot.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today        
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF:* The very first recording of the boy being apprehended looks staged.



P F Tinmore said:


> What distortion?


*(COMMENT)*

The video used in the living room of the Tamimi Family is _(I Believe)_ a fake.  The (so-called) Israeli making the apprehension - just look at him.

Now, look at these.







Like most apprehension actions, they work in "pairs."  One is never by himself.  Whether you work for the Soviets, German, American Article 43 Public Order and Safety Missions, they always work in pairs, and usually multiple pairs.  Non-commissioned Officer-in-Charge (Police or IDF) would simply not allow a single enforcement officer to make such a lone-wolf apprehension.  _(Unless you are Chuck Norris.)_

Second, what he is wearing conforms to neither Israeli Police or IDF.  In fact the Non-commissioned Officer-in-Charge (Police or IDF) would have just ripped this guy's head-off for being out-of-uniform. 

Finally, that slippery kid would have been immediately cuffed.  Ah but wait, the (so-called) Police did not have any.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Vermonters for Justice in Palestine - Salaam/Shalom - Report on Palestine/Israel

*


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:
> 
> 1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.
> 
> Good to see you acknowledging that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The protests are always non violent until the riot police come to start a riot.
Click to expand...


So, the protesters all run home to get their Molotovs after law enforcement arrives?  

Pah-leeze.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:
> 
> 1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.
> 
> Good to see you acknowledging that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The protests are always non violent until the riot police come to start a riot.
Click to expand...

My goodness you are more brainwashed that I had first thought . 
So throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails is non violent ?
Just curious , how much is Hamas paying you to post this jibberish?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:
> 
> 1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.
> 
> Good to see you acknowledging that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The protests are always non violent until the riot police come to start a riot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My goodness you are more brainwashed that I had first thought .
> So throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails is non violent ?
> Just curious , how much is Hamas paying you to post this jibberish?
Click to expand...

Less violent than Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Naming The Casualties In Palestine And Israel

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Museum Designed to Highlight Palestinian Culture*


----------



## Shusha

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli army bulldozers storming Beita town in Nablus to raze Palestinian lands in preparation for their confiscation for settlement purposes erupt in flames after they have been targeted with Molotov cocktails by Palestinian youths.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In your rush to celebrate Arab Palestinian violence, you have inadvertently admitted two things:
> 
> 1.  The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 2.  Arab Palestinians utilize child combatants.
> 
> Good to see you acknowledging that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The "protests" are NOT non-violent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The protests are always non violent until the riot police come to start a riot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My goodness you are more brainwashed that I had first thought .
> So throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails is non violent ?
> Just curious , how much is Hamas paying you to post this jibberish?
Click to expand...


They are non-violent, peaceful Molotovs.  Molotovs of rainbows and unicorns.


----------



## Mindful

While UNRWA is boasting of its services to Palestinian refugees and asking for donations, the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are accusing the UN agency of doing nothing to help them face the threat of the coronavirus pandemic. Pictured: A Palestinian volunteer sprays disinfectant in the streets of UNRWA's Shatila refugee camp, on the outskirts of Beirut, Lebanon, on March 24, 2020. (Photo by Anwar Amro/AFP via Getty Images)


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Sama Abdulhadi *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Shuts Palestinian Coronavirus Testing Clinic in East Jerusalem *

        Clinic in Silwan raided, activists arrested because kits were provided by the Palestinian Authority









						Israel shuts Palestinian coronavirus testing clinic in East Jerusalem
					

***




					www.haaretz.com


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel Shuts Palestinian Coronavirus Testing Clinic in East Jerusalem *
> 
> Clinic in Silwan raided, activists arrested because kits were provided by the Palestinian Authority
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel shuts Palestinian coronavirus testing clinic in East Jerusalem
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.haaretz.com



A "clinic" - that's of course misleading.

The article itself states: _"The clinic was opened in a hall at one of the *local mosques*."_

All gatherings for group prayer are banned, *synagogues, churches and mosques are closed*.
If they wanted a clinic they could've opened it in an appropriate building according to rules,
but all they wanted was a media stunt.

Typical Pallywood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian shepherd injured in settler attack in al-Khalil
					

A Palestinian shepherd was injured on Wednesday after he was attacked by Israeli settlers in Yatta town in the West Bank district of al-Khalil.




					english.palinfo.com
				




AL-KHALIL, (PIC)

A Palestinian shepherd was injured on Wednesday after he was attacked by Israeli settlers in Yatta town in the West Bank district of al-Khalil.

Local sources reported that a group of Israeli settlers stormed Palestinian farmlands in the eastern area of Yatta, while escorted by Israeli forces, and assaulted Palestinian shepherds injuring one of them.

Israeli settlers of Ma’on settlement, which was built by force on Palestinian lands in Yatta in 1981, on a regular basis attack Palestinian farmers and shepherds while Israeli forces target their homes and facilities with arbitrary demolitions to force them to leave the area. 

  Read more at  
Palestinian shepherd injured in settler attack in al-Khalil
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian shepherd injured in settler attack in al-Khalil
> 
> 
> A Palestinian shepherd was injured on Wednesday after he was attacked by Israeli settlers in Yatta town in the West Bank district of al-Khalil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.palinfo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AL-KHALIL, (PIC)
> 
> A Palestinian shepherd was injured on Wednesday after he was attacked by Israeli settlers in Yatta town in the West Bank district of al-Khalil.
> 
> Local sources reported that a group of Israeli settlers stormed Palestinian farmlands in the eastern area of Yatta, while escorted by Israeli forces, and assaulted Palestinian shepherds injuring one of them.
> 
> Israeli settlers of Ma’on settlement, which was built by force on Palestinian lands in Yatta in 1981, on a regular basis attack Palestinian farmers and shepherds while Israeli forces target their homes and facilities with arbitrary demolitions to force them to leave the area.
> 
> Read more at
> Palestinian shepherd injured in settler attack in al-Khalil
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center



Any proof?
Of course not.

"Pal info center"...nuf said.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today       
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF: * Yeah this doesn't even sound remotely credible.



P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian shepherd was injured on Wednesday after he was attacked by Israeli settlers in Yatta town in the West Bank district of al-Khalil.
> 
> Local sources reported that a group of Israeli settlers stormed Palestinian farmlands in the eastern area of Yatta, *while escorted by Israeli forces,* and assaulted Palestinian shepherds injuring one of them.
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is not anything like what the IDF would do.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli settlers of Ma’on settlement, which was *built by force on Palestinian lands* in Yatta in 1981,
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I thought this was in Area "C."
> •  And what was built by force?​•  Who was the force used against?​•  How was that force manifested?​
> There may be some case for a complaint and restitution as a remedy based on that complaint.  However, the greater the exaggerations made by the Arab Palestinians, the less likely any remedy will be established.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine Underground | Hip Hop, Trap and Techno Documentary Featuring Sama' | Boiler Room

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestine Underground | Hip Hop, Trap and Techno Documentary Featuring Sama' | Boiler Room
> 
> *



So now they say Techno is their culture??
Yeah sure why not, and "Stairway to Heaven" is an ancient Palestinian song....

Anyway, you know what's interesting,
I actually used to work for Y.D., the company that supplies Kabareet with the alcohol.
Even sat with Jamal on a beer couple of times, he told me about his cousins in Jordan who left Haifa, while his grandpa's family stayed in Faradis and signed a peace pact.

But I guess once the cameras roll, it's all the same old lies.


----------



## rylah

*Gazans march demanding Caliphate*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Indeed the usual none sense about skin-color, is all Arabs have to offer.
That comparison to reservations, is just a cynical attempt to mislead
anyone who haven't seen the map of the middle east.

Israel is indeed a tiny reservation, the only non-Muslim state,
surrounded by a sea of Arab countries.

And they still demand exclusive Muslim domination
over the entire middle east.

*But you guys don't get reality,
that ship has already sailed.*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed the usual none sense about skin-color, is all Arabs have to offer.
> That comparison to reservations, is just a cynical attempt to mislead
> anyone who haven't seen the map of the middle east.
> 
> Israel is indeed a tiny reservation, the only non-Muslim state,
> surrounded by a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> And they still demand exclusive Muslim domination
> over the entire middle east.
> 
> *But you guys don't get reality,
> that ship has already sailed.*
Click to expand...

Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed the usual none sense about skin-color, is all Arabs have to offer.
> That comparison to reservations, is just a cynical attempt to mislead
> anyone who haven't seen the map of the middle east.
> 
> Israel is indeed a tiny reservation, the only non-Muslim state,
> surrounded by a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> And they still demand exclusive Muslim domination
> over the entire middle east.
> 
> *But you guys don't get reality,
> that ship has already sailed.*
Click to expand...

Just another loser in the fake peace process.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed the usual none sense about skin-color, is all Arabs have to offer.
> That comparison to reservations, is just a cynical attempt to mislead
> anyone who haven't seen the map of the middle east.
> 
> Israel is indeed a tiny reservation, the only non-Muslim state,
> surrounded by a sea of Arab countries.
> 
> And they still demand exclusive Muslim domination
> over the entire middle east.
> 
> *But you guys don't get reality,
> that ship has already sailed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just another loser in the fake peace process.
Click to expand...


Well, if you imagine "Peace"
as Israel welcoming its own destruction,
then prepare yourself to be forever disappointed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Ali Abunimah "Watch The Film The Israeli Lobby Doesn't Want YOU To See!"

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Ali Abunimah "Watch The Film The Israeli Lobby Doesn't Want YOU To See!"
> 
> *



So let me get this straight,
Ali Abunimah who himself spreads antisemitic blood libels,
calls nonviolent political lobbying as undemocratic source of all evils,
while the following a baseless smear campaign against "Palestinian rights"??


----------



## toastman

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah "Watch The Film The Israeli Lobby Doesn't Want YOU To See!"
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight,
> Ali Abunimah who himself spreads antisemitic blood libels,
> calls nonviolent political lobbying as undemocratic source of all evils,
> while the following a baseless smear campaign against "Palestinian rights"??
Click to expand...

I wonder why Tinmore doesn’t respond to these posts


----------



## Rigby5

TNHarley said:


> Palestine today? I was just reading about Palestine
> 
> Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia
> UK freezes $30m in Palestinian aid over salaries for terrorists
> I was like DAMN what a bunch of assholes



I agree the UK ae assholes.
The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a wonderful humanitarian cause.
Such as, "paying cash stipends to the families of innocent bystanders killed during violent events. "


----------



## Rigby5

JoelT1 said:


> Who are the palestinians?





JoelT1 said:


> Who are the palestinians?



Total lies.
The word Palestine is not at all Roman and does refer to the Philistine who WERE Arab.
There was also Greek influence in Palestine, but their language was Semitic, so then were MOSTLY Arab.
In fact, not only does Semitic mean of an Arab language origin, but Jews are only Semitic because they also are of Arab language and DNA origins.
The Palestinians have lived there over 10,000 years, as Canaanites, Phoenicians, Chaldeans, Amorites, Urites, Nabatians, etc.  
But the Hebrew tribes do not come from Palestine.
The came from Egypt instead.
Somewhere in the Sinai.
They are not native.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> How about the Palestinian Jews?
> 
> The Rivlin family immigrated to Syria-Palestine in 1806... long before any Arab identified as a Palestinian. They were building new neighborhoods in Palestine, and were at the center and leadership of the Jewish community in Jerusalem.
> 
> Today Reuven Rivlin is the president of the state of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reuven Rivlin - Wikipedia



Yes, Jews have always lived in Palestine, but they have always been a tiny minority.
Judaism decreed that Jews should leave after the Romans defeated the revolt in 160 AD, and Jews are now supposed to be waiting for the Messiah before returning.
If you look at the census demographics,  before 1930, the population of Palestine was less than 5% Jewish.
And what small Jewish community did live in Palestine, was almost entirely in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem and owned almost no land.
Almost all the land Israelis occupy now, they never paid for and was stolen by force or murder.


----------



## Rigby5

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
Click to expand...



The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.


----------



## Rigby5

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ali Abunimah "Watch The Film The Israeli Lobby Doesn't Want YOU To See!"
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight,
> Ali Abunimah who himself spreads antisemitic blood libels,
> calls nonviolent political lobbying as undemocratic source of all evils,
> while the following a baseless smear campaign against "Palestinian rights"??
Click to expand...



You are very ignorant.
The word "Semitic" does not mean Jewish, but of an Arab language group.
Hebrew are Semitic because the Hebrew language is of Arab origins.
But Ashkenazi Jews are NOT at all Semitic, because their native language is Yiddish, which is Germanic.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> Yes, Jews have always lived in Palestine, but they have always been a tiny minority.
> Judaism decreed that Jews should leave after the Romans defeated the revolt in 160 AD, and Jews are now supposed to be waiting for the Messiah before returning.
> If you look at the census demographics,  before 1930, the population of Palestine was less than 5% Jewish.
> And what small Jewish community did live in Palestine, was almost entirely in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem and owned almost no land.
> Almost all the land Israelis occupy now, they never paid for and was stolen by force or murder.



No dude, you're wrong on every point, and pretty idiotic way I must say.
Lets see:



Rigby5 said:


> Yes, Jews have always lived in Palestine, but they have always been a tiny minority.



Historically, Jews have actually inhabited and governed the land as a majority
longer than any of the changing Arab Caliphates. And you're welcome to try refute that.



Rigby5 said:


> Judaism decreed that Jews should leave after the Romans defeated the revolt in 160 AD, and Jews are now supposed to be waiting for the Messiah before returning.


No, no such decree, only an opinion of a tiny sect.
Jewish Law actually decrees that it's an obligation for every Jew to live in Israel.
Try and refute.



Rigby5 said:


> If you look at the census demographics,  before 1930, the population of Palestine was less than 5% Jewish.


1930? Really??
Then you have a strange definition of "always".
Thank you for refuting your own none sense.



Rigby5 said:


> And what small Jewish community did live in Palestine, was almost entirely in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem and owned almost no land.


Actually, after being banned for centuries by invading powers, like Romans, Turks and Arabs,
from living in Jerusalem, that "small Jewish community" still held majority in Jerusalem.

But it was not limited to Jerusalem, under foreign rule, ancient Jewish community remained specifically in the Galilee area, Judea the coastal line, and even controlled much of Gaza, including owning much of international trade that connected the ancient trade routs and went through the Gaza port.

And much of the surrounding areas that later became Lebanon and Syria, which were part of ancient Israel.

But feel free to try and refute.



Rigby5 said:


> Almost all the land Israelis occupy now, they never paid for and was stolen by force or murder.



Actually the Jews of diaspora, through the Shadar economic system, have payed, and re-payed for every inch of the land that was stolen from them, more than any other nation in history.

There's no Jewish community that wasn't involved in this,
and so remains till this day.

But again try to refute.


----------



## rylah

Rigby5 said:


> You are very ignorant.
> The word "Semitic" does not mean Jewish, but of an Arab language group.
> Hebrew are Semitic because the Hebrew language is of Arab origins.
> But Ashkenazi Jews are NOT at all Semitic, because their native language is Yiddish, which is Germanic.




That's just beyond idiotic.
That's not what the term means, open a wikipedia.

The Arabic language only appeared in the 1st century CE,
while the Hebrew language and civilization already existed in 10 century BCE.

That's 1100 years before Arabic was even in its diapers.

And if you wanna go all linguistic with me,
maybe you can tell us, what alphabet was used for Yiddish?

So please, you're welcome to make a total fool of yourself, but it would be better if you at least made an argument that wasn't as easily crushed by a simple 1 min look in wikipedia.
Learn the basics.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Rigby5 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
> They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
> Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.
Click to expand...


What YOU can’t get through your thick scull is that Israel became a Country May14, 1948. Deal with it


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
> They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
> Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What YOU can’t get through your thick scull is that Israel became a Country May14, 1948. Deal with it
Click to expand...

That's what they say.


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
> They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
> Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What YOU can’t get through your thick scull is that Israel became a Country May14, 1948. Deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what they say.
Click to expand...

whos they ?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
> They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
> Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What YOU can’t get through your thick scull is that Israel became a Country May14, 1948. Deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what they say.
Click to expand...


You mean Israel didn’t become a Country May 14, 1948?  If I were you. I would notify the U. N


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A “ just peace” would eventually destroy Israel  and annex it to Palestine. The Palestinians can’t get it through their heads that will never happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The majority of Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants from 1930 to 1960.
> They have never paid for almost any land, are less than 30% of the population, and are illegally occupying over 80% of the land.
> Zionists just can not get it through their heads that the whole world is NEVER going to let that stay that way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What YOU can’t get through your thick scull is that Israel became a Country May14, 1948. Deal with it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what they say.
Click to expand...


Israel didn’t become a Country May 14, 194&? Hope u  notified the U. N


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today      
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

*BLUF: * Yeah! Well, I'm waiting to see what benefit comes of your complaint.



P F Tinmore said:


> That's what they say.


*(COMMENT)*

I thought that Customary Law by Convention says that the political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states _(let alone the Arab Palestinians)_. I do not recall Customary Law by Convention having a prerequisite of Arab Palestinian Authorization. In fact, the fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever _(that includes objection by the Arab Palestinians)_.

I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.

Cite me the Law, the Convention, or Treaty that proscribes their action; now some 70 years later down the road.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Yeah! Well, I'm waiting to see what benefit comes of your complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I thought that Customary Law by Convention says that the political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states _(let alone the Arab Palestinians)_. I do not recall Customary Law by Convention having a prerequisite of Arab Palestinian Authorization. In fact, the fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever _(that includes objection by the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.
> 
> Cite me the Law, the Convention, or Treaty that proscribes their action; now some 70 years later down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Haven’t you heard? May 14, 1948 has been officially erased from the Calendar.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Yeah! Well, I'm waiting to see what benefit comes of your complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I thought that Customary Law by Convention says that the political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states _(let alone the Arab Palestinians)_. I do not recall Customary Law by Convention having a prerequisite of Arab Palestinian Authorization. In fact, the fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever _(that includes objection by the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.
> 
> Cite me the Law, the Convention, or Treaty that proscribes their action; now some 70 years later down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.


It is inadmissible to acquire territory by the threat or use of force.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today   
⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

BLUF:  Yeah, that mantra have been recited, over and over again.  It is not applicable in this case.



RoccoR said:


> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.





			
				P F Tinmore said:
			
		

> It is inadmissible to acquire territory by the threat or use of force.


*(COMMENT)*

Leaving all the other entangled issues aside, it was the Arab League that struck first; making them the aggressor.  Which, in this Israel-Palestinian Conflict, which by today, becomes a Continuation of the 1948 War of Independence.  There is no question, the Conflict was initiate by the Combined Forces of the Arab League.  In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Treaty of Peace settled the question in the matter of Israel 'v' Jordan.  Similarly, the Treaty of Peace settled the question in the matter of Israel 'v' Egypt.  In both cases, the Treaties dissolve the 1949 Armistice Lines.  This aspect of the Question of Palestine is resolved.  It is a matter of acceptance by factions of Arab Palestinians that continue the struggle and were not able to establish a working government.  Even in 1967, when the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, the various factions of the Arab Palestinians were not able to step in and assume control.

No political effort has been able to make determinations on the issue of Israel's assumption of control by default when the Jordanians renounced title and rights to these territories.  These are, to this day, still subject to negotiation and in dispute.

Israel has chosen not to delegate its jurisdiction to outside courts.  The International Criminal Court (ICC) wants to unilaterally establish jurisdiction.  And that is fundamentally in conflict with the treaty that created the ICC.

There is too much uncertainty as to the question of "statehood and territorial control" for any judicial authority to be established.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Yeah, that mantra have been recited, over and over again.  It is not applicable in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is inadmissible to acquire territory by the threat or use of force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Leaving all the other entangled issues aside, it was the Arab League that struck first; making them the aggressor.  Which, in this Israel-Palestinian Conflict, which by today, becomes a Continuation of the 1948 War of Independence.  There is no question, the Conflict was initiate by the Combined Forces of the Arab League.  In the case of the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Treaty of Peace settled the question in the matter of Israel 'v' Jordan.  Similarly, the Treaty of Peace settled the question in the matter of Israel 'v' Egypt.  In both cases, the Treaties dissolve the 1949 Armistice Lines.  This aspect of the Question of Palestine is resolved.  It is a matter of acceptance by factions of Arab Palestinians that continue the struggle and were not able to establish a working government.  Even in 1967, when the Jordanians abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem, the various factions of the Arab Palestinians were not able to step in and assume control.
> 
> No political effort has been able to make determinations on the issue of Israel's assumption of control by default when the Jordanians renounced title and rights to these territories.  These are, to this day, still subject to negotiation and in dispute.
> 
> Israel has chosen not to delegate its jurisdiction to outside courts.  The International Criminal Court (ICC) wants to unilaterally establish jurisdiction.  And that is fundamentally in conflict with the treaty that created the ICC.
> 
> There is too much uncertainty as to the question of "statehood and territorial control" for any judicial authority to be established.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> Leaving all the other entangled issues aside, it was the Arab League that struck first; making them the aggressor.


Not true, but what does that have to do with Palestinian land?


----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * Yeah! Well, I'm waiting to see what benefit comes of your complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what they say.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I thought that Customary Law by Convention says that the political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states _(let alone the Arab Palestinians)_. I do not recall Customary Law by Convention having a prerequisite of Arab Palestinian Authorization. In fact, the fundamental rights of states are not susceptible of being affected in any manner whatsoever _(that includes objection by the Arab Palestinians)_.
> 
> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.
> 
> Cite me the Law, the Convention, or Treaty that proscribes their action; now some 70 years later down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for a credible argument that disallows the Israels from exercising their self-determination and prohibits them from establishing a Jewish National Home and political existence of the State of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is inadmissible to acquire territory by the threat or use of force.
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter how Israel became a country. You know why ? Because Israel IS a country. This is an undeniable fact , and to be honest, is not debatable.


----------



## toastman

Hey Tinmore, how could a place like Israel that doesn't exist have internationally recognized borders? 









						Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

Who decides which protests are worthy/unworthy? And why? Rania Khalek


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

Tinmore laughed at my borders post, yet he cannot come up with some sort of rebuttal . What a surprise


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> Tinmore laughed at my borders post, yet he cannot come up with some sort of rebuttal . What a surprise



What else is new?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

toastman said:


> Hey Tinmore, how could a place like Israel that doesn't exist have internationally recognized borders?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borders of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



He will tell you that Israel doesn’t exist.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  toastman, ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

I have to agree with you.  I am amazed at the number of people the challenge Israel's statehood, but take for granted the fractured governments of Gaza and Ramallah.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## toastman

P F Tinmore said:


>



Given the angle of the picture, it looks like a soldier standing and a farmer farming. But Palestinian propagandists try to make it seem more sinister, as usual. And you fell for it Tinmore.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



YAWN...  No thread; how typical. More of his lies.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Yes, I agree. Israel having no rights to their Religious Sites is apartheid.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


>



Okay, I did some digging into this photo.  Extremely difficult to do since it has become a stock photo for code "(Jewish) Israelis are evil".

However...

The photo, best as I can determine, was taken by Jaafar Asheiyeh on January 28, 2020 near the Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley.  The full image shows several more military members and several more farmers.  The original photo, as best as I can determine, was captioned, "An Israeli soldier checks identification documents of Palestinian farmer's in a field near al-Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley January 28, 2020".

While certain posters would like to present this photo as proof that (Jewish) Israelis are unnecessarily violent, it is clear in the picture that the weapon is held significantly to the right of the farmer's person and not in line of fire.  It is also obvious that the military individual is looking at something in his left hand (ID) and that neither the farmer nor the soldier is at an especially heightened awareness.  In other words, it does appear to be a routine check, rather than a point of conflict.  

Why are there soldiers checking the ID of farmers?  Turns out this was the day Trump's Peace Plan was announced.  There was significant call for incitement and tensions were high.  Israel increased its presence in the area in response to this incitement and, as expected, the next day there was a large protest involving 600 Palestinians.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  ILOVEISRAEL, et al,

*BLUF:*  Apartheid is not the right word.

The word "apartheid" a Dutch (Afrikaans) words for “apart-ness" and was applied to a district _(a corporate entity of its own)_ a six miles square parish-like political subdivision in South Africa. It was officially established and predominantly designated for people of color to maintain a separation of racial groups, under the policy that each racial group should be separated from the other _(White 'separate from' Black)_.

The barrier separation between the Israeli and the Arab Palestinians is a separation of safety, culture, religious freedom:

◈  Maintain for the purpose of security → keeping groups of combatants apart and holding regional security in hand.​◈  Maintaining a distinction between one sovereignty from another → in the same way as nearly every country in the world.​◈  To establish and maintain a Jewish National Home where any Jew under persecution can withdraw and retreat to → not be turned away.​


ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Yes, I agree. Israel having no rights to their Religious Sites is apartheid.


*(COMMENT)*

I sometimes think that distant cultures and nationalities forget that in the 21st Century a very deadly feud exists between the two those who cooperated in the building self-governing institutions and those that rejected building self-governing institutions.

The people of distant nations forget that those that chose to cooperate in the building self-governing institutions act in there own best interest, just as nearly all countries do; to include establishing defensible positions and borders.

The people of distant nations forget that those that chose to build self-governing institutions may open an environment that is free to practice religion in the way they choose; Jewish, Muslim, Druze, Christian, and others, without fear of intervention.  This is not a policy embraced by many of the Arab League and Middle East North African countries.  

*Sidebar Question:** Do the Arab Palestinians support the notion that Jews have the right to peacefully *​_*pray on the Temple Mount and the Western Wall?*_​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I did some digging into this photo.  Extremely difficult to do since it has become a stock photo for code "(Jewish) Israelis are evil".
> 
> However...
> 
> The photo, best as I can determine, was taken by Jaafar Asheiyeh on January 28, 2020 near the Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley.  The full image shows several more military members and several more farmers.  The original photo, as best as I can determine, was captioned, "An Israeli soldier checks identification documents of Palestinian farmer's in a field near al-Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley January 28, 2020".
> 
> While certain posters would like to present this photo as proof that (Jewish) Israelis are unnecessarily violent, it is clear in the picture that the weapon is held significantly to the right of the farmer's person and not in line of fire.  It is also obvious that the military individual is looking at something in his left hand (ID) and that neither the farmer nor the soldier is at an especially heightened awareness.  In other words, it does appear to be a routine check, rather than a point of conflict.
> 
> Why are there soldiers checking the ID of farmers?  Turns out this was the day Trump's Peace Plan was announced.  There was significant call for incitement and tensions were high.  Israel increased its presence in the area in response to this incitement and, as expected, the next day there was a large protest involving 600 Palestinians.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Why are there soldiers checking the ID of farmers? Turns out this was the day Trump's Peace Plan was announced. There was significant call for incitement and tensions were high.


Picking herbs is incitement?


----------



## Mindful

oy Themselves at New Shopping Mall

*Corona-what? As Gazans Enjoy Themselves at New Shopping Mall*
By
David Lange


With the Israel-haters constantly complaining the locked-up Gazans have nowhere to go in the face of coronavirus, they have at least one place to go, apparently.

The brand new Al Nuseirat Hyper Mall.

Corona-what? As Gazans Enjoy Themselves at New Shopping Mall


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I did some digging into this photo.  Extremely difficult to do since it has become a stock photo for code "(Jewish) Israelis are evil".
> 
> However...
> 
> The photo, best as I can determine, was taken by Jaafar Asheiyeh on January 28, 2020 near the Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley.  The full image shows several more military members and several more farmers.  The original photo, as best as I can determine, was captioned, "An Israeli soldier checks identification documents of Palestinian farmer's in a field near al-Hamra checkpoint in the Jordan Valley January 28, 2020".
> 
> While certain posters would like to present this photo as proof that (Jewish) Israelis are unnecessarily violent, it is clear in the picture that the weapon is held significantly to the right of the farmer's person and not in line of fire.  It is also obvious that the military individual is looking at something in his left hand (ID) and that neither the farmer nor the soldier is at an especially heightened awareness.  In other words, it does appear to be a routine check, rather than a point of conflict.
> 
> Why are there soldiers checking the ID of farmers?  Turns out this was the day Trump's Peace Plan was announced.  There was significant call for incitement and tensions were high.  Israel increased its presence in the area in response to this incitement and, as expected, the next day there was a large protest involving 600 Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are there soldiers checking the ID of farmers? Turns out this was the day Trump's Peace Plan was announced. There was significant call for incitement and tensions were high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Picking herbs is incitement?
Click to expand...

No.  Calls for riots are incitement.  Calls for riots were happening.  Military presence was increased because of the calls for incitement.  Part of that response was ensuring that people present were there for peaceful purposes and not for violent ones.  Entirely reasonable.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mnar Muhawesh


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh



The propagandist who instructs Islamists how to lie about their celebrating 911?

All you need to know about Mnar Muhawesh.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  If you are interested in looking at the anti-American view expressed by these two American Women _(Ivy League-educated)_, then you want to sit down and look at this presentation.



P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh (L) + Zainab Merchent (R)
> 
> 
> ​


*(COMMENT)*

I like the term "Junk Food News."  Mnar Muhawesh is a very good speaker and makes a very good presentation.  It might surprise you to know that Zainab Merchant holds degrees in both Poli-Sci and Homeland Security _(go figure)_.

The salient points are:

◈  The US is run by War Mongers.​◈  The US assassinated MG Qasem Soleimani, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF) after several failed attempts by Israel.​◈  American has an on-going campaign to dehumanize the Iranian people.​◈  Iran is furthering the cause of anti-sectarianism.​◈  The US, Israel and their allies are supporting sectarianism.​◈  Even after attempts to levy sanctions on Iran, Iran became an economic powerhouse. Iran was Especially successful in developing the auto and defense industries.​◈  Iran considers sanctions as an act of war.​◈  The Trump Administration is heavily influenced by Bush-era Neocons.​◈   Mainstream Corporate Media is mass processing pro-military aimed information, and that the people need to search for alternative news.  Working as PR for the military machine.​◈   President Obama set the stage for the action taken by the Trump Administration.​◈  The US generally makes a target of countries that present an economic threat.​
Repeat this three times and you've saved yourself some time.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## esalla

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **


What is a Palestinian doctor?


----------



## P F Tinmore

esalla said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **
> 
> 
> 
> What is a Palestinian doctor?
Click to expand...

She received her bachelor's and master's degrees in literature in the Department of English at the American University of Beirut (AUB) and got the bachelor and master degree. 

When the Six-Day War broke out in 1967, Dr. Ashrawi, then a 22-year-old student in Lebanon, was declared an absentee by Israel and denied re-entry to the West Bank. For the next six years, Ashrawi traveled and completed her education gaining a Ph.D. in Medieval and Comparative Literature from the University of Virginia. Ashrawi was finally allowed to re-join her family in 1973 under the family reunification plan.[6] +

Ashrawi is the recipient of eleven honorary doctorates from universities in the U.S., Canada, Europe, and the Arab world. These include: The American University of Beirut (AUB) – Lebanon (June 2008); The American University in Cairo (AUC), Doctor of Humane Letters – Cairo, Egypt (June 2003); Saint Mary’s University, Doctor of Civil Law – Halifax, Canada (October 2000); Smith College, Doctor of Humane Letters – Northampton, Massachusetts (1999); Earlham College, Doctor of Humane Letters – Richmond, Indiana (1999); Vrije Universiteit Brussel – Belgium (1997); Bath University, Doctor of Laws – Bath, England (1993); and The Virginia Theological Seminary – Alexandria, Virginia (1993). 









						Hanan Ashrawi - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Birzeit University


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

*Birzeit University celebrates the 52nd anniversary of PFLP*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mnar Muhawesh



We _know. _A lot of things.

Why do you feel the NEED to tell us?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Jewish Voice for Peace 
It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
   Translation; The Destruction of Israel 
   This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much


Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.

Israel is pro war.

It is not a tough decision.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel’s Losing Battle: Palestine Advocacy in the University - Al-Shabaka
					

The majority of suppression of Palestine advocacy in the US targets university students and faculty.




					al-shabaka.org


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
Click to expand...


Apparently you have trouble with comprehension. Jewish Voice for Peace advocates “ Right of Return’” for Palestinians but not Jews who want to move to Israel
   They are also against p


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
Click to expand...

 
Apparently you have trouble with reading comprehension. They are for “ Right of Return” for Palestinians but not Jews who would like to move to Israel
   They are also against the Birthright Israel Movement which sponsees teenagers and young adults to Visit and learn about their heritage 

   It’s not a tough decision


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
					

Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.




					english.palinfo.com
				









GAZA, (PIC)

Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.

Local sources told a reporter for Quds Press that six armored bulldozers moved a few hundred meters into the eastern area of Rafah City and embarked on leveling areas of Palestinian-owned farmland.

Every once in a while, the Israeli occupation army carries out limited incursions into Gaza border areas, with no regard for the Egypt-brokered ceasefire understandings reached with the Palestinian resistance in August 2014. 

  Read more at  
Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
 @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with comprehension. Jewish Voice for Peace advocates “ Right of Return’” for Palestinians but not Jews who want to move to Israel
> They are also against p
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with reading comprehension. They are for “ Right of Return” for Palestinians but not Jews who would like to move to Israel
> They are also against the Birthright Israel Movement which sponsees teenagers and young adults to Visit and learn about their heritage
> 
> It’s not a tough decision
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> 
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.palinfo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Local sources told a reporter for Quds Press that six armored bulldozers moved a few hundred meters into the eastern area of Rafah City and embarked on leveling areas of Palestinian-owned farmland.
> 
> Every once in a while, the Israeli occupation army carries out limited incursions into Gaza border areas, with no regard for the Egypt-brokered ceasefire understandings reached with the Palestinian resistance in August 2014.
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center



Leave it to a objective source “ The Palestinian Information Center”.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with comprehension. Jewish Voice for Peace advocates “ Right of Return’” for Palestinians but not Jews who want to move to Israel
> They are also against p
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with reading comprehension. They are for “ Right of Return” for Palestinians but not Jews who would like to move to Israel
> They are also against the Birthright Israel Movement which sponsees teenagers and young adults to Visit and learn about their heritage
> 
> It’s not a tough decision
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> 
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.palinfo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Local sources told a reporter for Quds Press that six armored bulldozers moved a few hundred meters into the eastern area of Rafah City and embarked on leveling areas of Palestinian-owned farmland.
> 
> Every once in a while, the Israeli occupation army carries out limited incursions into Gaza border areas, with no regard for the Egypt-brokered ceasefire understandings reached with the Palestinian resistance in August 2014.
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leave it to a objective source “ The Palestinian Information Center”.
Click to expand...

Typical propaganda ploy. Criticize the source.

If it is not israelibullshit.il it is not a credible source.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with comprehension. Jewish Voice for Peace advocates “ Right of Return’” for Palestinians but not Jews who want to move to Israel
> They are also against p
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish Voice for Peace
> It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11]
> Translation; The Destruction of Israel
> This is why Tinmore likes the " Jewish Voice For Peace" so much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jewish Voice For Peace is anti war.
> 
> Israel is pro war.
> 
> It is not a tough decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have trouble with reading comprehension. They are for “ Right of Return” for Palestinians but not Jews who would like to move to Israel
> They are also against the Birthright Israel Movement which sponsees teenagers and young adults to Visit and learn about their heritage
> 
> It’s not a tough decision
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> 
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> english.palinfo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GAZA, (PIC)
> 
> Several Israeli army bulldozers on Wednesday morning carried out a small-scale incursion into a border area in the southeast of the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Local sources told a reporter for Quds Press that six armored bulldozers moved a few hundred meters into the eastern area of Rafah City and embarked on leveling areas of Palestinian-owned farmland.
> 
> Every once in a while, the Israeli occupation army carries out limited incursions into Gaza border areas, with no regard for the Egypt-brokered ceasefire understandings reached with the Palestinian resistance in August 2014.
> 
> Read more at
> Israeli bulldozers raze lands during incursion into Gaza
> @Copyright The Palestinian Information Center
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Leave it to a objective source “ The Palestinian Information Center”.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical propaganda ploy. Criticize the source.
> 
> If it is not israelibullshit.il it is not a credible source.
Click to expand...


If it’s not Pro Palestinian Bull Shit , it’s not a credible source.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

There would be resistance to all plans unless it’s exactly what the Palestinians demand. Why can’t Tinmore address the Jews being forbidden to Visit their Religious Sites pre 1967 ??


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>





Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it. 

 The Palestinian Version of " justice"


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> *Birzeit University celebrates the 52nd anniversary of PFLP*



Is anyone surprised our Jihadi filth propagandist Tinmore liked this photo?

Just so we know who and what we're dealing with here...
It's the time of the revealing of the masks folks.
The evil gets desperate reaching last breath.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> There would be resistance to all plans unless it’s exactly what the Palestinians demand. Why can’t Tinmore address the Jews being forbidden to Visit their Religious Sites pre 1967 ??


That was a Jordan thing. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it.


OK, and?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

rylah said:


> *Birzeit University celebrates the 52nd anniversary of PFLP*



Leave it to the Pro Palestinian to celebrate the Nazi salute.  I smil


P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our basic aim is to liberate the land from the Mediterranean Seas to the Jordan River.... The Palestinian revolution's basic concern is the uprooting of the Zionist entity from our land and liberating it.
> 
> 
> 
> OK, and?
Click to expand...


You’re the one who condemns Israel for the failings of the “ Two State Solution” , paying no attention to “ International Law”, claiming there is no proof that Israelis and Palestinians can’t live peacefully, yet you condone the above? Thank you. Have proven again what a Hypocritical.  You are


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There would be resistance to all plans unless it’s exactly what the Palestinians demand. Why can’t Tinmore address the Jews being forbidden to Visit their Religious Sites pre 1967 ??
> 
> 
> 
> That was a Jordan thing. The Palestinians had nothing to do with that.
Click to expand...


They have stated Israel had no Rights to the Wall . Where have they stated that the Jewish people would have rights to their other religious sites?  Please tell us why they riot and incite Violence when Jews enter the Temple Mount  
There will be no response


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014*





__





						Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014 - Part 1 - College of Ethnic Studies
					






					diva.sfsu.edu
				







__





						Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014 - Part 2 - College of Ethnic Studies
					






					diva.sfsu.edu
				







__





						Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014 - Part 3 - College of Ethnic Studies
					






					diva.sfsu.edu


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF*:  This is the "delegate came to bear witness to the political and economic realities" crybaby session.  There is nothing that will convince these handout mongering Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that the shot themselves in the foot _(not once but for 70 years)_ over and over again.

The political and economic realities of today are the accumulation of over 70 years of poor leadership and the mental weakness of the HoAP.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014*


*(COMMENT)*

You cannot expect the HoAP to sit down and look at the realities.  They want something unreasonable.  And after 70 years of unreasonableness and the continued armed struggle and jihad against the Israelis, they dropped from having the 1948 Pre-War recommended allocation to what they have control of today (Area "A" and the Gaza Strip) under two competing systems of government.   And, they may insist on further forfeiture.






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Coyote

Palestinians have always had a deep love for horses, even in difficult conditions.  And horses have often been an incredible source of healing for broken kids.

This is a Jumping event in Gaza


----------



## Coyote

And more, on the healing power of horses in Gaza, the efforts of one man to create this and keep it as affordable as possible, and the difficulty of caring for horses in a place like Gaza.

*Inside Palestine's new equestrian club: 'Riding helps me run away from the problems of life in Gaza'*









						Inside Palestine's new equestrian club: 'Riding helps me run away from the problems of life in Gaza'
					

Friends Equestrian Club is helping young people to distract themselves from the plight of their beloved homeland




					www.thenational.ae


----------



## Coyote

And...if horses aren’t your thing, there is camel racing...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  This is the "delegate came to bear witness to the political and economic realities" crybaby session.  There is nothing that will convince these handout mongering Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that the shot themselves in the foot _(not once but for 70 years)_ over and over again.
> 
> The political and economic realities of today are the accumulation of over 70 years of poor leadership and the mental weakness of the HoAP.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot expect the HoAP to sit down and look at the realities.  They want something unreasonable.  And after 70 years of unreasonableness and the continued armed struggle and jihad against the Israelis, they dropped from having the 1948 Pre-War recommended allocation to what they have control of today (Area "A" and the Gaza Strip) under two competing systems of government.   And, they may insist on further forfeiture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Typical colonial ploy. Denigrate the natives.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


So much for the "peaceful protests" talking point...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF*:  This is the "delegate came to bear witness to the political and economic realities" crybaby session.  There is nothing that will convince these handout mongering Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) that the shot themselves in the foot _(not once but for 70 years)_ over and over again.
> 
> The political and economic realities of today are the accumulation of over 70 years of poor leadership and the mental weakness of the HoAP.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Report back from members of the North American Academic and Labor Delegation to Palestine 2014*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You cannot expect the HoAP to sit down and look at the realities.  They want something unreasonable.  And after 70 years of unreasonableness and the continued armed struggle and jihad against the Israelis, they dropped from having the 1948 Pre-War recommended allocation to what they have control of today (Area "A" and the Gaza Strip) under two competing systems of government.   And, they may insist on further forfeiture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical colonial ploy. Denigrate the natives.
Click to expand...


"Natives" - as in Arabian camel riders
who can't even pronounce the name of the land they've stolen?

How about you cease appropriating other people's struggles,
especially considering the Arab theft of the entire MENA region?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much for the "peaceful protests" talking point...
Click to expand...

What goes around comes around.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Aiming at an unarmed Palestinian civilian.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Return to sender.


----------



## rylah

And the Jihadi mothers...


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> What goes around comes around.



Indeed,
once the Jihadi rapists from Mecca stole the entire MENA region,
and now they  get humiliated by the smallest nation of former dhimmis... 

Heard that story somewhere before.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> Aiming at an unarmed Palestinian civilian.





P F Tinmore said:


> Aiming at an unarmed Palestinian civilian.



Where is the Palestinian, Prove that he’s Israeli, and where is your thread?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


YAWN...,   No link.


----------



## Mindful

If Hamas is opposed to any form of cooperation with Israel, why does it continue to allow medical supplies to be transferred from Israel into the Gaza Strip on an almost weekly basis?... It was also revealed that the sister of senior Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk had been admitted to an Israeli hospital for two weeks for cancer treatments.
Yet, Hamas is now saying that the Palestinian "peace activists" who talked to Israelis through an online videoconference will face legal measures for their "crime."
If Hamas does not want any contact with Israel, it should close the Gaza Strip border with Israel and refuse to medical supplies or truckloads of goods and fuel. If Hamas does not want any contact with Israel, it should stop sending family members of its leaders to receive medical treatment in Israel. If Hamas does not want any form of contact with Israel, it should stop sending Palestinian doctors to receive training from Israelis.
If and when the "peace activists" go on trial in the Gaza Strip, the international community and all those who describe themselves as pro-Palestinian advocates will have a golden opportunity to call out Hamas for its hypocrisy and lies. Failing to do so will directly facilitate the intimidation that Hamas and Palestinian extremists apply to anyone who seeks a better future for the Palestinians or peace with Israel.

If Hamas is opposed to any form of cooperation with Israel, why does it continue to allow medical supplies to be transferred from Israel into the Gaza Strip on an almost weekly basis? Last week, 96 tons of medical supplies were transferred from Israel through the Kerem Shalom Crossing into the Gaza Strip. In addition, some 1,368 truckloads of goods from Israel entered the Gaza Strip through the same border crossing. The week before, another 88 tons of medical supplies were transferred from Israel into the Gaza Strip along with 1,116 truckloads of goods.

If Hamas does not want any contact with Israel, it should turn to the Egyptians, who are sitting on the other side of the border with the Gaza Strip and demand that Egypt and other Arab countries provide them with medical aid. Last week, senior Hamas official Khalil al-Haya warned that "all scenarios are available" for his movement to force Israel to supply the Gaza Strip with medical equipment to combat the coronavirus. The Hamas official, in other words, is warning that his movement will resort to terrorism if Israel does _not_ help the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Would al-Haya issue a similar warning to the Egyptians, who are in control of the Rafah border crossing with the Gaza Strip? Of course not. Would he or any other Hamas leader dare to threaten any other Arab country for failing to supply the Gaza Strip with medical aid? Of course not.

Palestinians and the Virus of Normalization


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A road to freedom or to nowhere? Palestinians and the State of Palestine

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Blindfolding prisoners is so 3rd world.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are Right to Resist"

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are Right to Resist"
> 
> 
> *



And yet where's Eran's lawsuit?
The head of breaking the silence tried to get sued,
saying he beat an Arab guy, and that guy himself said it was none sense.

There's of course bits of information in every disinformation,
like that IDF can put curfew inside the entire Hebron city, when the reality is 3% of the city,
are under Israeli control, in the Jewish neighborhoods around the Cave of the Patriarchs,
The rest of the city is run by the Arabs, and economically stronger than Ramallah.

And the so called 'settlements' that are the Jewish neighborhoods which are repopulated
after being stolen in the 1929 Arab Pogrom are on the skirt of the main town run by PA/Hamas.

The cynical use of the "Arab Jew" story while leaving out the Arab Pogroms and the Caliphate, or the fact that those Jews who lived under Arab control, were never called or treated as Arabs, not 'Arabs' or 'Arab Jews' - but Musta'rabi, ya'ani Arabised Jews, and treated as such - dhimmis.

Jews were not even allowed into the Cave of the Patriarchs by the Caliphates.
Only seven steps. And those because of whom started the whole Zinoist uprising 
were the so called 'Arab Jews', the ancient local Jewish community calling diaspora to organize.

But there're of course a couple of points, I can agree,
Israel should seek a better Justice system, just as any other country.
And that when the state was established what led was the socialist secular agenda,
that attempted to erase all difference of the diaspora in order to instantly build the land.

This might have worked for some 20 years,
but as Eran Efrati said himself it's now the same 'Arab Jews'
the descendants of former dhimmis  are the 'ruling the government',
and are the main voters of the current elections.

But the thing I disagree the most, is the western pseudo-morality of soldiers lives below that of the civilians. It's immoral to judge any army as a 'protector of enemy population',
no army by definition can, or should stand by such absolutist rule.
and certainly not before the value of it's young soldiers.

Now that diametrically different,
to an army raised on SEEKING martyrdom in an enemy population.
To which judgement of the above, such circus presentation won't dare go.


----------



## rylah

*Hamas promises:*
"On this day, as we are witnessing all that is happening with the grace of Allah, we are looking forwards to two important things, which are within sight:

Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022
From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestinians Want the Establishment of Caliphate
⁜→  _et al,_

I must not understand the intended meaning of the "Caliphate."   Are the Arab Palestinians brain-dead_?_





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Magdy family after the occupation demolished their home in the town of Beit Hanina North of Jerusalem today.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Occupation forces arrested a child (11 years old) in front of the Arroub camp north of Hebron.


----------



## P F Tinmore

United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres: I extend my condolences to the elsawarka family, whose 8 members were martyred by an Israeli raid in the middle of the Gaza Strip, and I call for a quick investigation into this tragedy.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupation forces arrested a child (11 years old) in front of the Arroub camp north of Hebron.



The price of Islamist education:










Then meeting reality:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres: I extend my condolences to the elsawarka family, whose 8 members were martyred by an Israeli raid in the middle of the Gaza Strip, and I call for a quick investigation into this tragedy.



“The Zionists have blown up a roof in Gaza”

Hamas be like:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The Magdy family after the occupation demolished their home in the town of Beit Hanina North of Jerusalem today.





P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Ministry of education announces the suspension of study in Gaza tomorrow Thursday due to Israeli aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


OK; and?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Is Justice Still Possible? Susan M. Akram (2019)

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.*

*USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.
> 
> USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March
> 
> *



Oh no, an Israeli TV network gave an Israeli point of view interviewing an anti-Israel activist.
That famous 'talking point' excuse to whenever one can't refute a thing.

Did you expect Israeli hosts to have an Egyptian point of view?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,_

*BLUF*: Sometimes it almost hurts to watch these interviews.  It is very difficult these days to get a meaningful dialog _(Point 'v' Counter-Point)_ initiated.



P F Tinmore said:


> Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.
> 
> USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March





rylah said:


> Oh no, an Israeli TV network gave an Israeli point of view interviewing an anti-Israel activist.
> That famous 'talking point' excuse to whenever one can't refute a thing.
> 
> Did you expect Israeli hosts to have an Egyptian point of view?


*(COMMENT)*

The intention, as stated _(exercise the basic Human Rights they have been denied since 1948 - to return to their homes)_, does not match the demonstrator's actions.  Again, to do do this, the demonstrator would have to be 70 years old (+) to be what they claim _(a refugee that was displaced 70 years ago)_.  Do you see this?

A basic question, very much applicable here, is:  Do the Arab Palestinian refugees have any duty to conform to laws and actions that better the maintenance of public order?  I don't see this at all.  I don't think that the Arab Palestinians that are attempting to use force and violence even acknowledge a duty to maintain the peace, safety, and public order.

I don't think that the Arab Palestinians that are attempting to use force and violence as a refugee consider themselves a displaced citizen of Israel → solely on account of such nationality.  

I think that the Arab Palestinians have thought this through, →  and has no particular address that they have a claim to return, even if they were admitted to Israel.  Notice, I say "admitted" and NOT "re-admitted."  That is because most protesters have never been _(or consider themselves to be)_ a former resident in the territory of now under Israeli sovereignty.  Nor should Israel admit demonstrators with the intention of embarking on violent anti-Government activity.

I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians have considered that they should be denied immigration (or return) if they have been involved in serious criminal activity or use of violence against the State of Israel.  Why should Israel admit people who consider themselves a citizen of something other than Israel?

I think there needs to be some serious dialog these lines.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I don't think that the Arab Palestinians that are attempting to use force and violence as a refugee


Could you suggest something that would work?

I await your response.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Again, to do do this, the demonstrator would have to be 70 years old (+) to be what they claim _(a refugee that was displaced 70 years ago)_. Do you see this?


The Jews can come back after thousands of years but the Palestinians can't come back after 70.

Do you see this?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> I'm not sure that the Arab Palestinians have considered that they should be denied immigration (or return) if they have been involved in serious criminal activity or use of violence against the State of Israel.


It is return. It has nothing to do with immigration.

That would have to be adjudicated on an individual basis. You can't just broad brush everybody based on assumptions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.
> 
> USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, an Israeli TV network gave an Israeli point of view interviewing an anti-Israel activist.
> That famous 'talking point' excuse to whenever one can't refute a thing.
> 
> Did you expect Israeli hosts to have an Egyptian point of view?
Click to expand...

But that same talking point list is given to BBC, CNN, Fox,... Name one that does not have this same list.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF*:   Sometimes, there are definite "Wrongs Types of Attempts" to accomplish something.

The Analogy:

Recently, I had the opportunity to help a young man change a tire. In taking the wheel off the hub, he tried a standard lug-wrench approach, and when that did not work - he tried an air impact-wrench. I told him, no matter what tool you use, the lug nut will only come off if you are are loosening the proper direction.​◈  IF the lug nut has right-handed threading, THEN you will have to turn the tire iron counterclockwise.​◈ IF the lug nut has left-handed threads, THEN you will have to turn the tire iron clockwise.​Exchanging the tool → from using a lug-wrench _(manual force)_ to a high compressed-air impact-wrench _(much more force) _will not accomplish the task if you are trying to the lug-nut the wrong way.  In fact, it makes it more difficult; tightening it as opposed to loosening it.  No matter the force applied, twisting the lug nut the wrong way will not work; unless you break the bolt off the wheel hub _(AND THEN you have a real problem)_.​


RoccoR said:


> I don't think that the Arab Palestinians that are attempting to use force and violence as a refugee consider themselves a displaced citizen of Israel → solely on account of such nationality.





P F Tinmore said:


> Could you suggest something that would work?
> 
> I await your response.


*(COMMENT)*

This concept on the use of "Jihad" and "Arm Struggle" is counter-intuitive if you are heavily indoctrinated in the Islamic Resistance Covenant (HAMAS) or the Palestine National Charter (FATAH).  More force is not always the right answer.  In fact, it could be the exact opposite of the right answer.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:   Sometimes, there are definite "Wrongs Types of Attempts" to accomplish something.
> 
> The Analogy:
> 
> Recently, I had the opportunity to help a young man change a tire. In taking the wheel off the hub, he tried a standard lug-wrench approach, and when that did not work - he tried an air impact-wrench. I told him, no matter what tool you use, the lug nut will only come off if you are are loosening the proper direction.​◈  IF the lug nut has right-handed threading, THEN you will have to turn the tire iron counterclockwise.​◈ IF the lug nut has left-handed threads, THEN you will have to turn the tire iron clockwise.​Exchanging the tool → from using a lug-wrench _(manual force)_ to a high compressed-air impact-wrench _(much more force) _will not accomplish the task if you are trying to the lug-nut the wrong way.  In fact, it makes it more difficult; tightening it as opposed to loosening it.  No matter the force applied, twisting the lug nut the wrong way will not work; unless you break the bolt off the wheel hub _(AND THEN you have a real problem)_.​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that the Arab Palestinians that are attempting to use force and violence as a refugee consider themselves a displaced citizen of Israel → solely on account of such nationality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you suggest something that would work?
> 
> I await your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This concept on the use of "Jihad" and "Arm Struggle" is counter-intuitive if you are heavily indoctrinated in the Islamic Resistance Covenant (HAMAS) or the Palestine National Charter (FATAH).  More force is not always the right answer.  In fact, it could be the exact opposite of the right answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

That wasn't the question.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF*: The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) does not know what will work. But after a half-century of conflict, they sure as hell knows what doesn't work.  _(The actions they perform today.)_

P F Tinmore said: 
Could you suggest something that would work?
I await your response.       


P F Tinmore said:


> That wasn't the question.


*(COMMENT)*

The question was answered.  I don't want to fall into one of you "Quibbling Traps."





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*: The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) does not know what will work. But after a half-century of conflict, they sure as hell knows what doesn't work.  _(The actions they perform today.)_
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> Could you suggest something that would work?
> I await your response.
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> That wasn't the question.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The question was answered.  I don't want to fall into one of you "Quibbling Traps."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

IOW, Israel will not allow *anything* against their settler colonial project.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.
> 
> USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March
> 
> *



Notice how Pro Palestinians never comment on threatened Palestinian aggression and talking points  ?
















						Palestinian Authority Supreme Shari'a Judge And Abbas' Advisor Mahmoud Al-Habbash: The Jews Have No Connection To Jerusalem; This Is An Imperialist Myth And Distortion Of History
					

Mahmoud Al-Habbash, the PA Supreme Shari'a Judge and President Mahmoud 'Abbas's advisor for religious affairs, said at a June 4, 2018 conference that the struggle in Jerusalem is between the rightful owners of the city – the Muslims and Christians – and "some foreign Western imperialists that...




					www.memri.org


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF*:  I didn't say that.  But it is highly probable that Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) violence will not induce change.



P F Tinmore said:


> IOW, Israel will not allow *anything* against their settler colonial project.


*(COMMENT)*

An increase in HoAP violence could alter the security arrangement of settler areas, even the creation of more walls and guard towers.

An "increase in violence" could have "quite the reverse" of a favorable withdrawal from the West Bank.  It could call for an action open cause for action that would warrant measures to restore and ensure public order and safety.

*(THE ANYTHING)*

However, *IF* the attitude and level of cooperation were to suddenly improve and the Arab Palestinian were to open up a good faith and meaningful dialog through a more conventional and non-violent approach, Israel might be persuaded to respond much more favorably.

Since 1948, when the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) made their position very clear and openly plain, the Arab Palestinian has consistently lost ground in achieving any of the nine (9) political goals or objectives expressed through the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).   Essentially the NAD has not made any advancement towards the objective of the Arab Palestinian people since the AHC stated the following salient points:

◈  The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.​◈  The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.​◈  The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.​◈  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.​
While these views have been expressed in a number of different ways through a number of different means (including a Covenant, a Charter, and a number of policy papers), nothing has demonstrated the belligerent attitude of the Arab Palestinian people more than the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide:

◈  No peace with Israel,​◈  No recognition of Israel,​◈  No negotiations,​
*(WHAT WILL WORK)*

When the Arab Palestinian breaks out of this counter-productive political posture, new opportunities may arise.  But the HoAP need to be put down and the Arab Palestinian need to speak in every media outlet, in one clear and unambiguous voice (with the will to enforce it):

◈  Armed struggle and Jihad are NOT the way to achieve peace and a better future for the ALL people of the Middle East.​◈  Fedayeen activism is no longer to be tolerated.​◈  Violence is to be halted immediately.​◈  All Arab Palestinians recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.​◈  The Arab Palestinian people commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict.​
This is a necessary first step.  But it has to be a full step, not baby steps.  And it has to be enforced with vigor by the Palestinian police.  There should be no alliance made for street confrontation with the Israeli police.  There has to be a complete change in attitude.

It will take some time, but it could happen.  And the Arab Palestinian people must want it.

You want to know what WILL work; this will work.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_
> 
> *BLUF*:  I didn't say that.  But it is highly probable that Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) violence will not induce change.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, Israel will not allow *anything* against their settler colonial project.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> An increase in HoAP violence could alter the security arrangement of settler areas, even the creation of more walls and guard towers.
> 
> An "increase in violence" could have "quite the reverse" of a favorable withdrawal from the West Bank.  It could call for an action open cause for action that would warrant measures to restore and ensure public order and safety.
> 
> *(THE ANYTHING)*
> 
> However, *IF* the attitude and level of cooperation were to suddenly improve and the Arab Palestinian were to open up a good faith and meaningful dialog through a more conventional and non-violent approach, Israel might be persuaded to respond much more favorably.
> 
> Since 1948, when the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) made their position very clear and openly plain, the Arab Palestinian has consistently lost ground in achieving any of the nine (9) political goals or objectives expressed through the Negotiation Affairs Department (NAD) of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).   Essentially the NAD has not made any advancement towards the objective of the Arab Palestinian people since the AHC stated the following salient points:
> 
> ◈  The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.​◈  The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.​◈  The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.​◈  The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.​
> While these views have been expressed in a number of different ways through a number of different means (including a Covenant, a Charter, and a number of policy papers), nothing has demonstrated the belligerent attitude of the Arab Palestinian people more than the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide:
> 
> ◈  No peace with Israel,​◈  No recognition of Israel,​◈  No negotiations,​
> *(WHAT WILL WORK)*
> 
> When the Arab Palestinian breaks out of this counter-productive political posture, new opportunities may arise.  But the HoAP need to be put down and the Arab Palestinian need to speak in every media outlet, in one clear and unambiguous voice (with the will to enforce it):
> 
> ◈  Armed struggle and Jihad are NOT the way to achieve peace and a better future for the ALL people of the Middle East.​◈  Fedayeen activism is no longer to be tolerated.​◈  Violence is to be halted immediately.​◈  All Arab Palestinians recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.​◈  The Arab Palestinian people commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict.​
> This is a necessary first step.  But it has to be a full step, not baby steps.  And it has to be enforced with vigor by the Palestinian police.  There should be no alliance made for street confrontation with the Israeli police.  There has to be a complete change in attitude.
> 
> It will take some time, but it could happen.  And the Arab Palestinian people must want it.
> 
> You want to know what WILL work; this will work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

I notice that everything you listed is what Israel wants. No surprise there.

Armed resistance is not very effective, however, everyone has their own means to resist and it is not up to anyone to dictate methods to them.

The vast majority of Palestinian resistance has been unarmed. You wouldn't know this by corporate media reports. Virtually all peaceful protests go unreported. However, they are usually recorded and posted on social media.

The biggest thing the Palestinians are doing is education. There are many intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine in many ways. Now Palestinians, as a people, exist. Palestine, as a place, exists. Public perceptions are changing.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Notice how every host is handed Israel's list of talking points.
> 
> USCPR Policy Director Josh Ruebner on i24 News - Great Return March
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, an Israeli TV network gave an Israeli point of view interviewing an anti-Israel activist.
> That famous 'talking point' excuse to whenever one can't refute a thing.
> 
> Did you expect Israeli hosts to have an Egyptian point of view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But that same talking point list is given to BBC, CNN, Fox,... Name one that does not have this same list.
Click to expand...


Are you serious BBC, CNN...
are you calling Fareed Zakaria a pro-Israel host?

This 'list of talking points' you talk about...but never present,
I guess it's just whatever the inconvenient facts you can't deal with.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> The vast majority of Palestinian resistance has been unarmed. You wouldn't know this by corporate media reports. Virtually all peaceful protests go unreported. However, they are usually recorded and posted on social media.



That "peaceful protests" talking point,
you never miss an opportunity to disprove

Those famous 'peaceful' machete and Molotov's...



P F Tinmore said:


> The biggest thing the Palestinians are doing is education. There are many intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine in many ways. Now Palestinians, as a people, exist. Palestine, as a place, exists. Public perceptions are changing.



Jihadis confuse education with propaganda.
Can't wish something into existence with public perception,
Israel has already been boycotted, called worst things by UN, at times much harder.

For the last 7 decades Israel haters have been stumping their feet in unison,
did it bring their goal close, changed something on the ground, moved earth even an inch?

When speaking of a minority that got used to being the scapegoats,
these threats are not much news or an achievement.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  rylah, et al,_

*BLUF*: This is _"The Ostrich Effect"_ _(people are unable to see and do what they need to see and do)_ in which you reveal your cognitive bias and avoid information that you perceive as a sound and valid opposing view.



P F Tinmore said:


> I notice that everything you listed is what Israel wants. No surprise there.





rylah said:


> This 'list of talking points' you talk about...but never present,
> I guess it's just whatever the inconvenient facts you can't deal with.


*(COMMENT)*

You missed the point...  The list represents an entirely new approach that will offer Israel an incentive to address Arab Palestinian overtures with a fresh eye.  Israel doesn't need to bend or bow to the absurd demands currently presented by the stubborn Arab Palestinian Leadership that see a continuation of the conflict as an opportunity to amass wealth.  When the multimillionaires begin to leave the West Bank and Gaza you'll know that the gravy train is over.



P F Tinmore said:


> Armed resistance is not very effective, however, everyone has their own means to resist and it is not up to anyone to dictate methods to them.





rylah said:


> For the last 7 decades Israel haters have been stumping their feet in unison,
> did it bring their goal close, changed something on the ground, moved earth even an inch?


*(COMMENT)*

Our friend "rylah" amplifies the true point.

The means to "resist" does have limits and proscriptions.  It does NOT include "all means available."  Contrary to your continued insistence, lawful resistance does not include (for instance) an offense that is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.  I simply do not know what "actual law source" you get this from, but it does not include murder (of anyone) or damage to the property of the occupying forces, the civil administration, or the installations used by them.

You do your fellow anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist opponents a grave disservice by repeating "all available means, including armed struggle" from non-binding and unenforceable General Assembly Resolutions (_ex A/RES/3246 - or - A/RES/33/24_). I find it difficult to believe, but none the less true, that so many illiterate Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters find slogans "_resistance is not terrorism_" or "_there will be no Israeli in Palestine_" as some sort of cue to follow loudmouths such as Palestinian Activist Yaser Mazhar who "Calls on Palestinians to Carry out Suicide Bombings in Israel: We Long for Bus Bombings." 

✦  *REMEMBER* that Internationally:​Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, ​Condemns the  violent  extremism,  which  can  be  conducive  to  terrorism, sectarian  violence,  and the  commission  of  terrorist acts by  foreign  terrorist  fighters, and demands that all foreign terrorist fighters disarm and cease all terrorist acts and participation in armed conflict;​
You should be endorsing the action plans that are designed to Prevent Violent Extremism (PVE).



P F Tinmore said:


> The vast majority of Palestinian resistance has been unarmed. You wouldn't know this by corporate media reports. Virtually all peaceful protests go unreported. However, they are usually recorded and posted on social media.


*(COMMENT)*

You won't mind if I throw a flag on this play.  I don't consider street confrontations like that of the newest darling (Ahed Tamimi is a Palestinian activist from the village of Nabi Salih) as non-violent.  There are levels of violence and most street confrontations consist of low-intensity levels of violence.  However, what starts as a minor street confrontation can escalate very quickly.  And then there are those incidents that are contrived to create a media event.



P F Tinmore said:


> The biggest thing the Palestinians are doing is education. There are many intelligent, articulate, and well educated people promoting Palestine in many ways. Now Palestinians, as a people, exist. Palestine, as a place, exists. Public perceptions are changing.


*(COMMENT)*

The idea of "Many" is a "perception" of the mind and the mental expectation.  Your idea of "intelligent, articulate, and well-educated people" _(meaning Arab Palestinians)_ is relative. I see them with a piece of paper, but not so much as being able to work out a solution in relating to the Israeli in non-violent interactions. Your many "intelligent, articulate, and well-educated people" should be able to develop a mutually beneficial interaction with the Israeli after 70 years. I don't actually see evidence to that effect.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> ✦ *REMEMBER* that Internationally:Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, Condemns the violent extremism, which can be conducive to terrorism, sectarian violence, and the commission of terrorist acts by foreign terrorist fighters, and demands that all foreign terrorist fighters disarm and cease all terrorist acts and participation in armed conflict;


Do you mean like this?
------------------
4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected. 





__





						United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1514 - Wikisource, the free online library
					






					en.wikisource.org


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> Your many "intelligent, articulate, and well-educated people" should be able to develop a mutually beneficial interaction with the Israeli after 70 years. I don't actually see evidence to that effect.


Israel will only "negotiate" with its hand picked leaders. None of those intelligent, articulate, and well-educated people are allowed at the table. I would love to see that, televised and posted on youtube.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF:*  Once again, this is misinformation on your part in an attempt to convince others that you have some sound and valid basis for advocating violence.

*First:*  A/RES15/1514 (XV) is a General Assembly Resolution and not binding law.​*Second:*  This Resolution has to do with Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, none of which applies to the Palestinians.​*Third:* The Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories. That is, the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT "territories whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government”. In the case of the Arab Palestinians, the C-24 does not address the capability or quality of the government. That is up to the Arab Palestinian.​*Fourth*: Israel is not a Colonial Power, nor has it ever been a Colonial Power. And no, there are NO territories, countries, nations or states anywhere in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) that are under Colonial Rule or considered to be a Trust and Non-Self-Governing territory.​


RoccoR said:


> ✦ *REMEMBER* that Internationally:Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, Condemns the violent extremism, which can be conducive to terrorism, sectarian violence, and the commission of terrorist acts by foreign terrorist fighters, and demands that all foreign terrorist fighters disarm and cease all terrorist acts and participation in armed conflict;





P F Tinmore said:


> Do you mean like this?
> ------------------
> 4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations General Assembly Resolution 1514 - Wikisource, the free online library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikisource.org


*(COMMENT)*

I notice that you bring this up from time to time.  So, I know that you know this is a totally bogus injection into the discussion.

You don't have to determine the applicability of the resolution in regard to the Arab Palestinian.  The UN C-24 Committee (Special Committee on Decolonization) does the work for you and the readers of this discussion.  A world map and chart below the map (as of 14 May 2019), lists the 17 territories to which the C-24 Committee considers that A/RES15/1514 (XV) applies.  It also lists the four remaining Administering Powers.  Israel is NOT one of the Administering Powers, oddly enough, America is still an Administering Power for which A/RES15/1514 (XV) applies. 

I know that some pro-Arab Palestinian contributors like to pull the wool over the reader's eyes.  But don't let them fool you.
*REMEMBER*:​


​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rabab Abdulhadi - 2019 Alex Odeh Memorial Award Recipient Speech

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *Third:* The Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories. That is, the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT "territories whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government”.


That is odd. Israel's bullshit propaganda says that the Palestinians have never been self governing therefor they have no rights.

It is also odd that you would buy into that obvious contradiction.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *Fourth*: Israel is not a Colonial Power, nor has it ever been a Colonial Power.


That's funny. The British called it colonialism. The Zionists called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. History calls it colonialism. The facts on the ground show colonialism. It is still called colonialism.

Who tells you it is not?

Links?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF:*  You don't need to be self-governing to has civil and political rights.  [See:  International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR)]  Again, I think there is some misinformation here on your part.  I think you are using the changing definition of "Palestine" and the fact that the entirety of the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine has never been governed by the Arab Palestinians in the last eight (8) centuries.



RoccoR said:


> *Third:* The Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories. That is, the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are NOT "territories whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government”.





P F Tinmore said:


> That is odd. Israel's bullshit propaganda says that the Palestinians have never been self governing therefor they have no rights.
> 
> It is also odd that you would buy into that obvious contradiction.


*(COMMENT)*

Everyone has rights.  What they have rights to and whether or not they are positive or negative rights is a question on specifics rights.  I do not believe that you are correctly interpreting what the Israeli Government has said concerning this.  You're putting your slant on things.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→  _P F Tinmore,  et al,_

*BLUF:  *IF you go back to *Post 15,610*, you will find out who determines that with the link...



RoccoR said:


> *Fourth*: Israel is not a Colonial Power, nor has it ever been a Colonial Power.





P F Tinmore said:


> That's funny. The British called it colonialism. The Zionists called it colonialism. The Palestinians called it colonialism. History calls it colonialism. The facts on the ground show colonialism. It is still called colonialism.
> 
> Who tells you it is not?
> 
> Links?


*(COMMENT)*

I think you are confusing the politicization and rhetoric with the actual technical meaning and the facts.

​


			
				[SIZE=4]UN C-24 Mandate[/SIZE] said:
			
		

> "In accordance with GA resolution 1654 (XVI), the C-24 was mandated to (i) examine the application of the *Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples* _(GA resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, hereafter referred to as the "Declaration")_ and (ii) to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration. The C-24 commenced its work in 1962.​​​The C-24 annually reviews the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories to which the Declaration is applicable. It also hears statements from representatives of the Non-Self-Governing Territories at its annual sessions, dispatches visiting missions to Non-Self-Governing Territories and annually organizes regional seminars."​


​





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today       
 ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  Every country has the right to deny entry to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters; which the Arab Palestinians clearly are or in direct support.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

When Noura Erakat says she wants the "Right of Return" → what she is really advocating is an escalation in the conflict.  
When Noura Erakat says she wants the "Right to Movement"  → what she is really advocating is freedom of movement for Hostile Arab Palestinians to attack Israelis, which is an escalation in the conflict.  The Arab Palestinians have more than enough funding to educate their people.  What she really wants is further education in Jihadist activities.

You've heard people like Mahmoud Abbas and others say categorically that no Jews will be allowed in the new Palestine.  You have heard a call to attack Jews just in the last 60 days.

Nothing about what Noura Erakat is a promotion towards peace.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Every country has the right to deny entry to Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters; which the Arab Palestinians clearly are or in direct support.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 330285
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When Noura Erakat says she wants the "Right of Return" → what she is really advocating is an escalation in the conflict.
> When Noura Erakat says she wants the "Right to Movement"  → what she is really advocating is freedom of movement for Hostile Arab Palestinians to attack Israelis, which is an escalation in the conflict.  The Arab Palestinians have more than enough funding to educate their people.  What she really wants is further education in Jihadist activities.
> 
> You've heard people like Mahmoud Abbas and others say categorically that no Jews will be allowed in the new Palestine.  You have heard a call to attack Jews just in the last 60 days.
> 
> Nothing about what Noura Erakat is a promotion towards peace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Who writes this shit for you?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Podcast: Abby Martin Resists Anti-BDS Laws & Israel Lobby

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A Nantes, la jeune palestinienne Ahed Tamimi à la rencontre des militants

*


----------



## Corazon

P F Tinmore said:


> *A Nantes, la jeune palestinienne Ahed Tamimi à la rencontre des militants
> 
> *


What is she saying? I don't understand neither French nor Arabic


----------



## P F Tinmore

Corazon said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Nantes, la jeune palestinienne Ahed Tamimi à la rencontre des militants
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> What is she saying? I don't understand neither French nor Arabic
Click to expand...

I don't either. I just posted it to show that she is out in the world promoting Palestine. Their useless so called leaders won't.


----------



## Corazon

P F Tinmore said:


> Corazon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A Nantes, la jeune palestinienne Ahed Tamimi à la rencontre des militants
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> What is she saying? I don't understand neither French nor Arabic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't either. I just posted it to show that she is out in the world promoting Palestine. Their useless so called leaders won't.
Click to expand...

Thanks anyway for the answer P F Tinmore


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



So?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ttps://worldisraelnews.com/hamas-hypocrisy-opposing-virus-of-normalization-while-accepting-israeli-medical-aid/?utm_source=MadMimi&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Israel+Attacks+Hezbollah%3B+Corona+Lower+in+Kids+but+

Is anyone surprised?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today       
 ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I'm confused again.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(QUESTION)*

Explain to me where and how Israel is enforcing "apartheid?"

Give me one clear example...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


Too bad the black Community doesn’t feel the same way when it ‘s Blacks LITERALLY enslaving, killing, and raping other blacks    

Too


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm confused again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 330472
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Explain to me where and how Israel is enforcing "apartheid?"
> 
> Give me one clear example...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israel removed 750,000 Palestinians from its voting rolls before its first election.

Do you *really* want to know about apartheid or are you just baiting me?

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Is Israel an Apartheid State?

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> I'm confused again.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 330472
> 
> 
> 
> *(QUESTION)*
> 
> Explain to me where and how Israel is enforcing "apartheid?"
> 
> Give me one clear example...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel removed 750,000 Palestinians from its voting rolls before its first election.
> 
> Do you *really* want to know about apartheid or are you just baiting me?
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Is Israel an Apartheid State?
> 
> *
Click to expand...


I can give you symposium about Flat Earth,
where're are the skin-color signs?

The apartheid accusation is indeed a racist bait.


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Not a single mask...
are they all relying on that new study saying Covid-19 doesn't infect Arabs?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


From what I've seen...

more people like her, and Islam might have it easier to reform,
only question, will the radical squad allow her express a different agenda.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Young people set fire in the settlement of "Rosh Tzu Rim" on the territory of the town of nahalin west of Bethlehem.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian/European joint press conference against Israeli demolition of Palestinian village

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israeli Army Beat Palestinians during Home Demolition*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Price of new caravan with rooms 4500$.
Used one around 2000$

Place it on any hill...
And see your 4th cousin with the building company, sends a guy for a state job.

Such are choices in life.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



Unfortunately as you see,
they demolished only the room of the murderer.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israeli Army Beat Palestinians during Home Demolition*



Who's home, any details,
or just random scene?


----------



## P F Tinmore

IDF = Israeli Doofus Force


----------



## P F Tinmore

How many Israeli goontards does it take to arrest one Palestinian?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli troops attacking Palestinian civilians, as usual.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Hebrew sources: a house in the settlement of "Sderot" was directly damaged by the fall of a rocket from Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*An Evening With Ramzy Baroud - Journalist / Author / Historian on Palestine

*


----------



## Mindful

A Palestinian propaganda Twitter account called Palestine Post 24 has tweeted out this heart-wrenching photo, claiming “this is the daily life of Gaza children.”



Except it’s not.

A reverse image search reveals it is a photo of a palestinian Arab from Jerusalem (the son of a palestinian found hung in his bus)

Palestinian Fauxtography: The Crying Game Edition


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

Mindful said:


> A Palestinian propaganda Twitter account called Palestine Post 24 has tweeted out this heart-wrenching photo, claiming “this is the daily life of Gaza children.”
> 
> 
> 
> Except it’s not.
> 
> A reverse image search reveals it is a photo of a palestinian Arab from Jerusalem (the son of a palestinian found hung in his bus)
> 
> Palestinian Fauxtography: The Crying Game Edition



He lies all the time. Don’t think he knows the difference between truth and fantasy.( Or just plain lies)


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Queen Rania Al Abdullah *


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Jews for Rashida Virtual Passover Seder

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rashida Tlaib: Trump’s racist Middle East plan would "legalize theft" of Palestinian land

*


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Rashida Tlaib: Trump’s racist Middle East plan would "legalize theft" of Palestinian land
> 
> *



Can’t you give it a rest?

Who are you trying to convince?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Mindful said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib: Trump’s racist Middle East plan would "legalize theft" of Palestinian land
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can’t you give it a rest?
> 
> Who are you trying to convince?
Click to expand...

Not you.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Rashida Tlaib: Trump’s racist Middle East plan would "legalize theft" of Palestinian land
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can’t you give it a rest?
> 
> Who are you trying to convince?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not you.
Click to expand...


Who then?


----------



## rylah

Mindful said:


> Who are you trying to convince?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

Is that all you’ve got, Tinmore? A ha ha?


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestinian Protesters Running Away Gunned Down By IDF

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> *Palestinian Protesters Running Away Gunned Down By IDF
> 
> *



So you keep on saying.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



Blah blah.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> *Queen Rania Al Abdullah *



She “ forgot “ to talk about BLACK SEPTEMBER


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today       
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  Another reason why the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) should be considered armed and dangerous.  And requires the police to respond with appropriate force to protect themselves and others.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

IMO, this video just demonstrates that the HoAP should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law (Article 68 GCIV).  Such "resistance" IS "terrorism."  

*1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​
Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
Today's generation of Arab Palestinians is not capable to be entrusted with the freedoms normally associated with a civilized society.  _ (Just My Thought)_






Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  Another reason why the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) should be considered armed and dangerous.  And requires the police to respond with appropriate force to protect themselves and others.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> IMO, this video just demonstrates that the HoAP should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law (Article 68 GCIV).  Such "resistance" IS "terrorism."
> 
> *1997 International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​
> Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.
> Today's generation of Arab Palestinians is not capable to be entrusted with the freedoms normally associated with a civilized society.  _ (Just My Thought)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Poor fuckers. Maybe they should get out of Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today     
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* Are you saying that these acts committed in the context of an Arab Palestinian regime of systematic assault and murder by one racially Arab group over a Jewish population are committed with the expressed intention of maintaining Arab Palestinian Regime?
​
Fatah: “We won’t relinquish a grain of soil… from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River” 
_Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 9, 2019
Recorded by PMW_​


P F Tinmore said:


> Poor fuckers. Maybe they should get out of Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

We've all heard the Arab Palestinian goal of driving the Israeli from the region and dissolving the Jewish National Home.  While it is understood that these are dangerous threats, it is not likely that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) will actually be able to accomplish this objective.  Oh sure, the HoAP will be able to continue to inflict pain and sorrow on the Jewish State, the Arab Palestinian people → with which the HoAP purport to act in their stead → will cause many more time the suffering on themselves → then they can inflict upon Israel.

Remember, that the *Arab Palestinians receive monetary assistance* from _(but not limited to) _every country in Europe, the UK, Russia, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and _(don't forget their trusted friend and ally)_ the Iranians...  You can list only one country that gives any aid of any consequence to Israel; that being the US.


			
				United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) [/FONT]31 January 2020[FONT=arial] said:
			
		

> The* Acting Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)*, Christian Saunders, today called for a minimum of US$ 1.4 billion to fund the Agency’s essential services and assistance, including life-saving humanitarian aid and priority projects, for 5.6 million registered Palestine refugees across the Middle East for the year 2020.


Of course the Governments of Gaza and Ramallah have indicated that they don't want any US Assistance anyway. so it doesn't make that much difference.  This year alone, without US money, contributed just short of a Billion Dollars to the Arab Palestinian cause.
​
2019 Pledges to UNRWA's Programmes 
(Cash and In-kind) 
Overall Donor Ranking as of 31 December 2019 in USD​
◈  Abbas’ deputy tells America: “We don’t want your flour, your wheat, or your aid”​  I've often heard the pro-Arab Palestinian Terrorist complain that the US gives $1 Billion a year to Israel _($10B over ten years)_.  It is about the same that the Arab Palestinians have been receiving from the various donor contributors.     The big difference is that US money to Israel goes for defense.  Donor dollars going to Arab Palestinians are sliced and diced in all sorts of ways.              




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* Are you saying that these acts committed in the context of an Arab Palestinian regime of systematic assault and murder by one racially Arab group over a Jewish population are committed with the expressed intention of maintaining Arab Palestinian Regime?
> 
> 
> 
> Fatah: “We won’t relinquish a grain of soil… from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River”
> _Nan Jacques Zilberdik  | Dec 9, 2019
> Recorded by PMW_​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor fuckers. Maybe they should get out of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We've all heard the Arab Palestinian goal of driving the Israeli from the region and dissolving the Jewish National Home.  While it is understood that these are dangerous threats, it is not likely that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) will actually be able to accomplish this objective.  Oh sure, the HoAP will be able to continue to inflict pain and sorrow on the Jewish State, the Arab Palestinian people → with which the HoAP purport to act in their stead → will cause many more time the suffering on themselves → then they can inflict upon Israel.
> 
> Remember, that the *Arab Palestinians receive monetary assistance* from _(but not limited to) _every country in Europe, the UK, Russia, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and _(don't forget their trusted friend and ally)_ the Iranians...  You can list only one country that gives any aid of any consequence to Israel; that being the US.
> 
> 
> 
> United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) [/FONT]31 January 2020[FONT=arial] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The* Acting Commissioner-General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)*, Christian Saunders, today called for a minimum of US$ 1.4 billion to fund the Agency’s essential services and assistance, including life-saving humanitarian aid and priority projects, for 5.6 million registered Palestine refugees across the Middle East for the year 2020.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course the Governments of Gaza and Ramallah have indicated that they don't want any US Assistance anyway. so it doesn't make that much difference.  This year alone, without US money, contributed just short of a Billion Dollars to the Arab Palestinian cause.
> 
> 
> 
> 2019 Pledges to UNRWA's Programmes
> (Cash and In-kind)
> Overall Donor Ranking as of 31 December 2019 in USD​
> ◈  Abbas’ deputy tells America: “We don’t want your flour, your wheat, or your aid”​  I've often heard the pro-Arab Palestinian Terrorist complain that the US gives $1 Billion a year to Israel _($10B over ten years)_.  It is about the same that the Arab Palestinians have been receiving from the various donor contributors.     The big difference is that US money to Israel goes for defense.  Donor dollars going to Arab Palestinians are sliced and diced in all sorts of ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is Israel's war. Everything the Palestinians do is a response to Israel's aggression.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>



It wouldn't be as funny,
if you idiots didn't choose a map
that defines Palestine as Judea Samaria

​


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Huwaida Arraf  Speaks about Rachel Corrie & Palestine

*


----------



## rylah

*Father of Terror Victim Taylor Force*


----------



## rylah

*Hamas promises:*
"On this day, as we are witnessing all that is happening with the grace of Allah, we are looking forwards to two important things, which are within sight:

*Cleanse Palestine of the "filth of the Jews" by 2022*
*From the River to the Sea - establishment of Caliphate*


----------



## rylah




----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> *Father of Terror Victim Taylor Force*


It isn't safe in Israel's war zone.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


Poor Tinmore..,,   Can’t stand the fact that Israel exists.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today     
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:*  This is just more Arab Palestinian sulking_*!*_



P F Tinmore said:


> It is Israel's war. Everything the Palestinians do is a response to Israel's aggression.


*(COMMENT)*

The problem we have here with the Arab Palestinians is that one cannot accurately respond to the claim of aggression because the event is never identified by a place and date.  So no real answer is possible.  

The Arab Palestinians, like a dysfunctional family, frequently make false accusations and allegations in a public forum, which - in itself - is a form of hostile propaganda and an act of hostility.  In the movie _The Bad Seed_, a sociopathic child _(here playing the part of an Arab Palestinian)_ has an angelic demeanor yet manages to destroy many lives. They like to use "Front Women," with a pleasant presentation and soft voices, that can hide sadistic impulses they justify as "resistance."

They have latched onto this term "aggression."  And they use this term to conceal the fact that the Arab League's use of armed force (1948) against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of in less than 24 hours after the creation of the State of Israel.   The Arab Palestinian use this terminology to imply that the Jewish People, following the guidance of the UN and the Palestine Commission, exercised their Right to Self-Determination, as if the Jewish People had no Right to Self-Determination.  They use this claim to then justify allegations that Israel used an act of aggression is as a means of territorial acquisition or special advantage; when in fact it was the Arab League that captured territory for their control.

Using the special advantage, the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians in particular, use Criminal Acts conducted with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious injury to the Israeli population, with an eye to intimidate to compel a government to furthers the criminal objective and hostile political agenda.

If you are a sheep, then you will just blindly follow these outrageous claims made by the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  But if you can exercise your own thought processes, you can individually connect the dots and draw your independent conclusions; unincumbered by Arab Palestinian propaganda.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  This is just more Arab Palestinian sulking_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's war. Everything the Palestinians do is a response to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem we have here with the Arab Palestinians is that one cannot accurately respond to the claim of aggression because the event is never identified by a place and date.  So no real answer is possible.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, like a dysfunctional family, frequently make false accusations and allegations in a public forum, which - in itself - is a form of hostile propaganda and an act of hostility.  In the movie _The Bad Seed_, a sociopathic child _(here playing the part of an Arab Palestinian)_ has an angelic demeanor yet manages to destroy many lives. They like to use "Front Women," with a pleasant presentation and soft voices, that can hide sadistic impulses they justify as "resistance."
> 
> They have latched onto this term "aggression."  And they use this term to conceal the fact that the Arab League's use of armed force (1948) against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of in less than 24 hours after the creation of the State of Israel.   The Arab Palestinian use this terminology to imply that the Jewish People, following the guidance of the UN and the Palestine Commission, exercised their Right to Self-Determination, as if the Jewish People had no Right to Self-Determination.  They use this claim to then justify allegations that Israel used an act of aggression is as a means of territorial acquisition or special advantage; when in fact it was the Arab League that captured territory for their control.
> 
> Using the special advantage, the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians in particular, use Criminal Acts conducted with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious injury to the Israeli population, with an eye to intimidate to compel a government to furthers the criminal objective and hostile political agenda.
> 
> If you are a sheep, then you will just blindly follow these outrageous claims made by the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  But if you can exercise your own thought processes, you can individually connect the dots and draw your independent conclusions; unincumbered by Arab Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Load of hooey.

Israel is a settler colonial project. Settler colonialism, by its very nature, is an act of aggression. It can only be imposed by military force.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Father of Terror Victim Taylor Force*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't safe in Israel's war zone.
Click to expand...


Calling every murder scene a 'war zone' where an Arab decides to stabbing spree,
doesn't excuse your sociopathic cheering for premeditated murder.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today     
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* You simply don't understand the words and their meaning.



P F Tinmore said:


> Load of hooey.
> 
> Israel is a settler-colonial project. Settler colonialism, by its very nature, is an act of aggression. It can only be imposed by military force.


*(COMMENT)*

"Colonies" _(by a Colonial Power)_ and "Settlements" (by self-determination) are two different things.

◈  There has never been "Colonies" in the territories formerly under British Mandate.  The British Government was not acting as a "Colonial Power" in the territories formerly under British Mandate.​​◈  There are competing arguments (legal wrangling) over the nature of the Area "C" "Settlements" in territory under complete Israeli civil and security control by agreement with the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.   This is based on the literal meaning of complete Israeli civil and security control; Palestinians, of course, are complaining that Israel does not have such civil and security control → and thus cannot establish areas allocated for a voluntary settlement. The Arab Palestinians have never liberated any territories formerly under British Mandate.​​Again, you need to look at the C-24 outcomes.  The more you ignore the express intent and meaning of the political inventions, the more you will become confused.

The Arab Palestinians absolutely refuse to avail themselves of the Conflict Resolution Processes the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people agreed to nearly three decades ago.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  This is just more Arab Palestinian sulking_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Israel's war. Everything the Palestinians do is a response to Israel's aggression.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The problem we have here with the Arab Palestinians is that one cannot accurately respond to the claim of aggression because the event is never identified by a place and date.  So no real answer is possible.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians, like a dysfunctional family, frequently make false accusations and allegations in a public forum, which - in itself - is a form of hostile propaganda and an act of hostility.  In the movie _The Bad Seed_, a sociopathic child _(here playing the part of an Arab Palestinian)_ has an angelic demeanor yet manages to destroy many lives. They like to use "Front Women," with a pleasant presentation and soft voices, that can hide sadistic impulses they justify as "resistance."
> 
> They have latched onto this term "aggression."  And they use this term to conceal the fact that the Arab League's use of armed force (1948) against the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of in less than 24 hours after the creation of the State of Israel.   The Arab Palestinian use this terminology to imply that the Jewish People, following the guidance of the UN and the Palestine Commission, exercised their Right to Self-Determination, as if the Jewish People had no Right to Self-Determination.  They use this claim to then justify allegations that Israel used an act of aggression is as a means of territorial acquisition or special advantage; when in fact it was the Arab League that captured territory for their control.
> 
> Using the special advantage, the Arab League and the Arab Palestinians in particular, use Criminal Acts conducted with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious injury to the Israeli population, with an eye to intimidate to compel a government to furthers the criminal objective and hostile political agenda.
> 
> If you are a sheep, then you will just blindly follow these outrageous claims made by the Hostile Arab Palestinians.  But if you can exercise your own thought processes, you can individually connect the dots and draw your independent conclusions; unincumbered by Arab Palestinian propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> Israel is a settler colonial project. Settler colonialism, by its very nature, is an act of aggression. It can only be imposed by military force.
Click to expand...


Israel is a project of re-constitution of an indigenous nation in its land.
If it truly was a colonial project, then it strangely succeeded better,
than the various attempts of Arab-Muslim colonialism.

Why would the land keep her best fruits for Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* You simply don't understand the words and their meaning.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load of hooey.
> 
> Israel is a settler-colonial project. Settler colonialism, by its very nature, is an act of aggression. It can only be imposed by military force.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> "Colonies" _(by a Colonial Power)_ and "Settlements" (by self-determination) are two different things.
> 
> ◈  There has never been "Colonies" in the territories formerly under British Mandate.  The British Government was not acting as a "Colonial Power" in the territories formerly under British Mandate.​​◈  There are competing arguments (legal wrangling) over the nature of the Area "C" "Settlements" in territory under complete Israeli civil and security control by agreement with the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated.   This is based on the literal meaning of complete Israeli civil and security control; Palestinians, of course, are complaining that Israel does not have such civil and security control → and thus cannot establish areas allocated for a voluntary settlement. The Arab Palestinians have never liberated any territories formerly under British Mandate.​​Again, you need to look at the C-24 outcomes.  The more you ignore the express intent and meaning of the political inventions, the more you will become confused.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians absolutely refuse to avail themselves of the Conflict Resolution Processes the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people agreed to nearly three decades ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## rylah




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Joudie Kalla

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Who Shapes the Peace Process?- Hanan Ashrawi

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Rula Jebreal

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*a.Palestinian statehood dates from 1923*
2. Palestine statehood began at a specific point in time—1923. When the Ottoman Turkish Empire was dismembered after World War I, its Arab territories, including Palestine, were established as states. The 1923 Peace Treaty of Lausannewas key in this  process.  It  was  the  instrument  whereby  Turkey’s  Arab  territories  were relinquished in World War I’s aftermath. Article 16 specified that Turkey’s rights in these  territories  were  renounced,  and  that  their  future  would  be  resolved  by  the parties  concerned. 2 By  1923,  Palestine,  Syria,  and  Iraq  had  been  formed  and  their borders defined. 3.The  Peace  Treaty  of  Lausanne  referred  to  these territories  as  states  in  three separate provisions:



			https://legal-tools.org/doc/igwapq/pdf/


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> *a.Palestinian statehood dates from 1923*
> 2. Palestine statehood began at a specific point in time—1923. When the Ottoman Turkish Empire was dismembered after World War I, its Arab territories, including Palestine, were established as states. The 1923 Peace Treaty of Lausannewas key in this  process.  It  was  the  instrument  whereby  Turkey’s  Arab  territories  were relinquished in World War I’s aftermath. Article 16 specified that Turkey’s rights in these  territories  were  renounced,  and  that  their  future  would  be  resolved  by  the parties  concerned. 2 By  1923,  Palestine,  Syria,  and  Iraq  had  been  formed  and  their borders defined. 3.The  Peace  Treaty  of  Lausanne  referred  to  these territories  as  states  in  three separate provisions:
> 
> 
> 
> https://legal-tools.org/doc/igwapq/pdf/



Where is the territory of a state called 'Palestine' defined in the 1923 treaty?
I didn't see a single mention.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


>



You must be sooo desperate, Tinmore, to stoop to that level.

But you’re still not convincing us of anything.


----------



## P F Tinmore

A Palestinian rides on a road alongside Israel’s apartheid wall in the town of Baqa al-Gharbiyya in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1948. Photo by Oren Ziv.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian children herd their family’s livestock in the West Bank’s Jordan Valley. Photo by Keren Manor.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Activists protest in front of the Israeli military prison holding Hiba Al-Labadi, who was detained on August 20th at the Allenby crossing point while she was traveling with her mother to the West Bank. Under administrative detention law, Israeli authorities can hold Palestinians without charge or trial based on "secret information"


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Activists protest in front of the Israeli military prison holding Hiba Al-Labadi, who was detained on August 20th at the Allenby crossing point while she was traveling with her mother to the West Bank. Under administrative detention law, Israeli authorities can hold Palestinians without charge or trial based on "secret information"



The information is not a secret to the court,
public release of specific details that come along with charges
can potentially endanger national security and intelligence assets.

But the overall she is a Jordanian citizen,
who met with Hezballah operatives on a family trip in Lebanon.

All this costs money, the placards the media coverage,
but what is important is to cause the original facilitators to move. 
That if you want her to be released sooner.

If the point is optics - then Jordan is welcome to step in as the Palestinian govt,
after the PA fulfills its threat of ending all cooperation and agreements with Israel,
and thus nullify itself and the basis of all its authority - it won't be another Hamas'tan.

There won't be a response,
but to sum it up - either if you want Hiba out of jail quicker,
or want a media circus about Jordan, you have time
until they bring the commanders of her facilitators.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today        
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:*  This is another one of the Pro-Palestinian propaganda efforts using an "Appeal to Ignorance" to spread misinformation.

This propaganda effort makes use of a fallacy _(ad ignorantiam)_ → an argument that implies that something is true (it is an "Apartheid Wall") because it has not been proved not to be something else.

It is very important to clarify some terminology.  If you are going to make a legal claim that a crime has been committed (Apartheid) then it is important to understand what the legal definition and the elements of the offense are.  Otherwise, it is like claiming the sky is green, with no reference as to what green means (the color between blue and yellow); → light with a fundamental wavelength of ≈ 495–570 nm.




P F Tinmore said:


> A Palestinian rides on a road alongside Israel’s apartheid wall in the town of Baqa al-Gharbiyya in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1948. Photo by Oren Ziv.


*(REFERENCE)*

"The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;"  _See:  Article 7(2h) • Crimes Against Humanity • _*Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*.

*Elements of Crimes*
Article 7 (1j) Crime Against Humanity of Apartheid
Elements​1. The perpetrator committed an inhumane act against one or more persons.​2.   Such act was an act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute, or was an act of a character similar to any of those acts.​3.   The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established the character of the act.​4.   The conduct was committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups.​5. The perpetrator intended to maintain such regime by that conduct.​6.   The  conduct  was  committed  as  part  of  a  widespread  or  systematic  attack  directed against a civilian population.​7.   The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.​

*delimitation* ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.

*territorial integrity.* N. The principle that a state’s borders are sacrosanct; the idea in international law that one state or nation should not aid actions that could reform the borders of another state or nation.   _See: Page 495, Essential Law Dictionary, by Amy H Blackwell, Published by Sphinx Publishing, Naperville, Illinois.  (Also See:  Page 597, Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law)_

*(COMMENT)*

This is one of those cases where the Security Barrier _(a dependent territorial threshold)_ protects the integrity of one sovereignty from the ravages and dangers presented by a different entity.  This Security Barrier is no different from the border security implemented between the US and Canada or the US and Mexico.  It is enforced under the rights granted any country. _ (See;  Article 2(4) UN Charter)_

The Hostile Arab Palestinians have been attempting to gain sympathetic support for their attempt to infiltrate Israel since 1949.  They might have gained the Right of Return if they had not pledged to create a wave of violence to remove the Israelis; a political position that they still hold today.  THUS, a protective barrier was necessary to establish and prevent further hostile activity.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  This is another one of the Pro-Palestinian propaganda efforts using an "Appeal to Ignorance" to spread misinformation.
> 
> This propaganda effort makes use of a fallacy _(ad ignorantiam)_ → an argument that implies that something is true (it is an "Apartheid Wall") because it has not been proved not to be something else.
> 
> It is very important to clarify some terminology.  If you are going to make a legal claim that a crime has been committed (Apartheid) then it is important to understand what the legal definition and the elements of the offense are.  Otherwise, it is like claiming the sky is green, with no reference as to what green means (the color between blue and yellow); → light with a fundamental wavelength of ≈ 495–570 nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian rides on a road alongside Israel’s apartheid wall in the town of Baqa al-Gharbiyya in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1948. Photo by Oren Ziv.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> "The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;"  _See:  Article 7(2h) • Crimes Against Humanity • _*Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*.
> 
> *Elements of Crimes*
> Article 7 (1j) Crime Against Humanity of Apartheid
> Elements​1. The perpetrator committed an inhumane act against one or more persons.​2.   Such act was an act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute, or was an act of a character similar to any of those acts.​3.   The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established the character of the act.​4.   The conduct was committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups.​5. The perpetrator intended to maintain such regime by that conduct.​6.   The  conduct  was  committed  as  part  of  a  widespread  or  systematic  attack  directed against a civilian population.​7.   The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.​
> 
> *delimitation* ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.
> 
> *territorial integrity.* N. The principle that a state’s borders are sacrosanct; the idea in international law that one state or nation should not aid actions that could reform the borders of another state or nation.   _See: Page 495, Essential Law Dictionary, by Amy H Blackwell, Published by Sphinx Publishing, Naperville, Illinois.  (Also See:  Page 597, Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law)_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is one of those cases where the Security Barrier _(a dependent territorial threshold)_ protects the integrity of one sovereignty from the ravages and dangers presented by a different entity.  This Security Barrier is no different from the border security implemented between the US and Canada or the US and Mexico.  It is enforced under the rights granted any country. _ (See;  Article 2(4) UN Charter)_
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians have been attempting to gain sympathetic support for their attempt to infiltrate Israel since 1949.  They might have gained the Right of Return if they had not pledged to create a wave of violence to remove the Israelis; a political position that they still hold today.  THUS, a protective barrier was necessary to establish and prevent further hostile activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

These are the nuts and bolts as I understand them. I would be happy to discuss any particular issue with you.

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Is Israel an Apartheid State?*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  This is another one of the Pro-Palestinian propaganda efforts using an "Appeal to Ignorance" to spread misinformation.
> 
> This propaganda effort makes use of a fallacy _(ad ignorantiam)_ → an argument that implies that something is true (it is an "Apartheid Wall") because it has not been proved not to be something else.
> 
> It is very important to clarify some terminology.  If you are going to make a legal claim that a crime has been committed (Apartheid) then it is important to understand what the legal definition and the elements of the offense are.  Otherwise, it is like claiming the sky is green, with no reference as to what green means (the color between blue and yellow); → light with a fundamental wavelength of ≈ 495–570 nm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian rides on a road alongside Israel’s apartheid wall in the town of Baqa al-Gharbiyya in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1948. Photo by Oren Ziv.
> 
> 
> 
> *(REFERENCE)*
> 
> "The crime of apartheid" means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime;"  _See:  Article 7(2h) • Crimes Against Humanity • _*Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court*.
> 
> *Elements of Crimes*
> Article 7 (1j) Crime Against Humanity of Apartheid
> Elements​1. The perpetrator committed an inhumane act against one or more persons.​2.   Such act was an act referred to in article 7, paragraph 1, of the Statute, or was an act of a character similar to any of those acts.​3.   The perpetrator was aware of the factual circumstances that established the character of the act.​4.   The conduct was committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups.​5. The perpetrator intended to maintain such regime by that conduct.​6.   The  conduct  was  committed  as  part  of  a  widespread  or  systematic  attack  directed against a civilian population.​7.   The perpetrator knew that the conduct was part of or intended the conduct to be part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against a civilian population.​
> 
> *delimitation* ‘It is common practice to distinguish delimitation and demarcation of a boundary. The former denotes description of the alignment in a treaty or other written source, or by means of a line marked on a map or chart. Demarcation denotes the means by which the described alignment is noted, or evidenced, on the ground, by means of cairns of stones, concrete pillars, beacons of various kinds, cleared roads in scrub, and so on. The principle of the distinction is clear enough, but the usage of the draftsman of the particular international agreement or political spokesman may not be consistent. In fact the terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing’: Brownlie, African Boundaries. A Legal and Diplomatic Encyclopaedia ( 1979 ), 4.
> 
> *territorial integrity.* N. The principle that a state’s borders are sacrosanct; the idea in international law that one state or nation should not aid actions that could reform the borders of another state or nation.   _See: Page 495, Essential Law Dictionary, by Amy H Blackwell, Published by Sphinx Publishing, Naperville, Illinois.  (Also See:  Page 597, Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law)_
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> This is one of those cases where the Security Barrier _(a dependent territorial threshold)_ protects the integrity of one sovereignty from the ravages and dangers presented by a different entity.  This Security Barrier is no different from the border security implemented between the US and Canada or the US and Mexico.  It is enforced under the rights granted any country. _ (See;  Article 2(4) UN Charter)_
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinians have been attempting to gain sympathetic support for their attempt to infiltrate Israel since 1949.  They might have gained the Right of Return if they had not pledged to create a wave of violence to remove the Israelis; a political position that they still hold today.  THUS, a protective barrier was necessary to establish and prevent further hostile activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These are the nuts and bolts as I understand them. I would be happy to discuss any particular issue with you.
> 
> *Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Is Israel an Apartheid State?*
Click to expand...


We know it's your favorite blood libel in the repertoire.
But where are the skin-color signs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Husam al-Najjar inspects cultured barley he is growing at his home in Khan Yunis, southern Gaza Strip, to feed his livestock as feed prices soar in the besieged territory. Photo by Mahmoud al-Hindi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli soldiers beat and detain a Palestinian man protesting Israeli razing of Palestinian land in favor of settlement expansion in Aqraba village in Nablus district.


----------



## P F Tinmore

An Israeli soldier attacks a Palestinian journalist who is covering protests against an Israeli plan to take over al-Orma Mount in Nablus for settlement expansion. Photo by Issam al-Rimawi.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hanging strawberry farm in northern Gaza. Photo by Mohammed Said.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today        
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

I think the Bedouin Headgear these young ladies are wearing is quite striking.

*BLUF:* I wonder if the newer generations of Arab Palestinians understand what this silliness about the so-called "Nakba" has cost them in terms of blood, treasure and development.

*(COMMENT)*

They can have their  Anniversary and Public Commemoration of the Arab League attack on the State of Israel.  The facts are that:
​◈  The Palestinian people have NOT made any noteworthy significant contribution to the world.​✦  Over 800 Israelis are laureates of Nobel Prizes in Chemistry, Economics, Literature, Peace, Physics, or Medicine.​​◈  The Palestinian people have NOT been denied the right to self-determination.  Their complaint is really about the Arab Palestinians wanting a nation just handed to them on a silver platter, without going through the process of learning and creating self-governing institutions.​✦  For over 70 years, the Israelis have taken the initiative to create the most human developed nation in the entire Middle East North African.​​◈  The Palestinian complain about the Israelis being an "Apartheid" government in an effort to dominate the Arab Palestinian in the West Bank and Jerusalem; with Muslim 75% (predominantly Sunni), Jewish 17%, Christian and other 8%.​✦  Israel has about the same level of diversity as the Arab Palestinians.  Israel is a composited of Jewish 74.4%, Arab 20.9%, other 4.7%  • (2018 est.)​
The Arab Palestinians are basically an unruly mob, outside any other national jurisdiction except that of Israel.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Remembering my speaking tour to South Africa with Ahed Tamimi ❤️❤️ Stay safe all #FreePalestine


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian American spacecraft engineer at NASA, Nujoud Merancy, in her suit with traditional tatreez Palestinian embroidery.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*State of Palestine: Gaza farmers feed flowers to sheep as lockdown leads to lack of demand

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:   Palestine Today        
⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:*  So, *you are implying* that an innocent should stand in the open and let the Hostile Arab Palestines (HoAP) fire lethal weapons at then until somebody gets killed?



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

There are a couple of issues in play here.  Just for starters, the violations of but not limited to:
​◈  Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks (Rule #12)​Attack methods and weapons that cannot be directed at a specific military objective.​
◈  Definition of Civilian Objects (Rule #9)​All objects that are not of a military objective.​
◈  Proportionality in Attack (Rule# 14)​Attacks which are that necessary to achieve a concrete and military advantage.​◈ *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​◈  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*​Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​◈  *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*​The right of everyone to form trade unions and join the trade union of his choice, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, for the promotion and protection of his economic and social interests. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public order or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others;​
This featured picture does not explain the implied allegations.  Nor does it address the counterclaim by attempting to use civilians as human shields (Rule #97), of the intentional use of densely populated areas to maximize casualties for media value (Rule #23 and #24).

As I said before →  when one of your panderings strikes me as total propaganda, when in fact the Hostile Arab Palestinian is the proximate cause of the unnecessary death, I will respond.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  So, *you are implying* that an innocent should stand in the open and let the Hostile Arab Palestines (HoAP) fire lethal weapons at then until somebody gets killed?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 335551
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are a couple of issues in play here.  Just for starters, the violations of but not limited to:
> ​◈  Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks (Rule #12)​Attack methods and weapons that cannot be directed at a specific military objective.​
> ◈  Definition of Civilian Objects (Rule #9)​All objects that are not of a military objective.​
> ◈  Proportionality in Attack (Rule# 14)​Attacks which are that necessary to achieve a concrete and military advantage.​◈ *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​◈  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*​Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​◈  *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*​The right of everyone to form trade unions and join the trade union of his choice, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, for the promotion and protection of his economic and social interests. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public order or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others;​
> This featured picture does not explain the implied allegations.  Nor does it address the counterclaim by attempting to use civilians as human shields (Rule #97), of the intentional use of densely populated areas to maximize casualties for media value (Rule #23 and #24).
> 
> As I said before →  when one of your panderings strikes me as total propaganda, when in fact the Hostile Arab Palestinian is the proximate cause of the unnecessary death, I will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Israeli settlers are a necessary, integral, and active part of Israel's settler colonial project. There would be no Israel without them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  So, *you are implying* that an innocent should stand in the open and let the Hostile Arab Palestines (HoAP) fire lethal weapons at then until somebody gets killed?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 335551
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are a couple of issues in play here.  Just for starters, the violations of but not limited to:
> ​◈  Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks (Rule #12)​Attack methods and weapons that cannot be directed at a specific military objective.​
> ◈  Definition of Civilian Objects (Rule #9)​All objects that are not of a military objective.​
> ◈  Proportionality in Attack (Rule# 14)​Attacks which are that necessary to achieve a concrete and military advantage.​◈ *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​◈  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*​Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​◈  *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*​The right of everyone to form trade unions and join the trade union of his choice, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, for the promotion and protection of his economic and social interests. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public order or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others;​
> This featured picture does not explain the implied allegations.  Nor does it address the counterclaim by attempting to use civilians as human shields (Rule #97), of the intentional use of densely populated areas to maximize casualties for media value (Rule #23 and #24).
> 
> As I said before →  when one of your panderings strikes me as total propaganda, when in fact the Hostile Arab Palestinian is the proximate cause of the unnecessary death, I will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli settlers are a necessary, integral, and active part of Israel's settler colonial project. There would be no Israel without them.
Click to expand...


Are you ever capable of actually addressing anything
instead of mindlessly parroting jingles?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  So, *you are implying* that an innocent should stand in the open and let the Hostile Arab Palestines (HoAP) fire lethal weapons at then until somebody gets killed?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 335551
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are a couple of issues in play here.  Just for starters, the violations of but not limited to:
> ​◈  Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks (Rule #12)​Attack methods and weapons that cannot be directed at a specific military objective.​
> ◈  Definition of Civilian Objects (Rule #9)​All objects that are not of a military objective.​
> ◈  Proportionality in Attack (Rule# 14)​Attacks which are that necessary to achieve a concrete and military advantage.​◈ *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​◈  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*​Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​◈  *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*​The right of everyone to form trade unions and join the trade union of his choice, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, for the promotion and protection of his economic and social interests. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public order or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others;​
> This featured picture does not explain the implied allegations.  Nor does it address the counterclaim by attempting to use civilians as human shields (Rule #97), of the intentional use of densely populated areas to maximize casualties for media value (Rule #23 and #24).
> 
> As I said before →  when one of your panderings strikes me as total propaganda, when in fact the Hostile Arab Palestinian is the proximate cause of the unnecessary death, I will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli settlers are a necessary, integral, and active part of Israel's settler colonial project. There would be no Israel without them.
Click to expand...




P F Tinmore said:


>





P F Tinmore said:


>




I have never spoken to anyone from this organization but I would like to know what their response would be to the above, and their denial of Holy Places Pre 1967. Notice how Tinmore always ignores these topics?


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

The New Hamas Charter? - Jerusalem Institute of Justice
					

Recently, in an attempt to rebrand their public image and purge themselves of the aura of a terrorist organization, Hamas released a revised document titled ‘General Principles and Policies’. It served as an affirmation of their ideologies and positions on issues relating to Israel. Importantly...




					jij.org
				





PA rewards teaching that "Palestine" erases all of Israel | PMW Analysis



Same here.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

JVP opposes the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[4] It has published articles criticizing what it describes as the "severe human-rights violations that Israel engages in every day."[9] It "endorses neither a one-state solution to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, nor a two-state solution".[10] It supports the Palestinian right of return while opposing the Law of Return and Jewish immigration to Israel and the Birthright Israel movement.[11] The organization also supports the boycott against Israel through the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS

   If they are really for " justice" why would they oppose  Jewish immigration and  the Birthright Israel movement which sponsors children of Jewish heritage Visiting their Holy Land?  


*Taglit-Birthright Israel* (Hebrew: תגלית‎), also known as *Birthright Israel* or simply *Birthright*,  is a not-for-profit educational organization that sponsors free ten-day heritage trips to Israel for young adults of Jewish heritage, aged 18–32.[1]


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:   Palestine Today
> ⁜→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:*  So, *you are implying* that an innocent should stand in the open and let the Hostile Arab Palestines (HoAP) fire lethal weapons at then until somebody gets killed?
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 335551
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> There are a couple of issues in play here.  Just for starters, the violations of but not limited to:
> ​◈  Definition of Indiscriminate Attacks (Rule #12)​Attack methods and weapons that cannot be directed at a specific military objective.​
> ◈  Definition of Civilian Objects (Rule #9)​All objects that are not of a military objective.​
> ◈  Proportionality in Attack (Rule# 14)​Attacks which are that necessary to achieve a concrete and military advantage.​◈ *International Convention for the Suppression of Terrorist Bombings*​Creates a regime of universal jurisdiction over the unlawful and intentional use of explosives and other lethal devices in, into, or against various defined public places with intent to kill or cause serious bodily injury, or with intent to cause extensive destruction of the public place.​◈  *International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights*​Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.​◈  *International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights*​The right of everyone to form trade unions and join the trade union of his choice, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, for the promotion and protection of his economic and social interests. No restrictions may be placed on the exercise of this right other than those prescribed by law and which are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public order or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others;​
> This featured picture does not explain the implied allegations.  Nor does it address the counterclaim by attempting to use civilians as human shields (Rule #97), of the intentional use of densely populated areas to maximize casualties for media value (Rule #23 and #24).
> 
> As I said before →  when one of your panderings strikes me as total propaganda, when in fact the Hostile Arab Palestinian is the proximate cause of the unnecessary death, I will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli settlers are a necessary, integral, and active part of Israel's settler colonial project. There would be no Israel without them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have never spoken to anyone from this organization but I would like to know what their response would be to the above, and their denial of Holy Places Pre 1967. Notice how Tinmore always ignores these topics?
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

The Gaza riot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Every time you look in the eyes of children in Gaza, you can imagine how could the suffering meet with innocence.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Fighting Anti-Palestinian Repression, with Khaled Barakat: Samidoun Webinar 26 March 2020

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinians in Gaza revive their culture, and protect their identity from loss by putting on the Kofyya scarf, and dance El-Dabkah on traditional songs.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

When love, peace, innocence, and hope appear in one picture. Your day is how you start it. A beautiful smiley  girl from Gaza shall make your day!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium - Keynote Address*


Unfortunately his UN mandate only goes back to 1967. He cannot critique from 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore

*A HUGE BORDER WALL, THE BANKSY HOTEL, THE DEAD SEA, AND MORE IN PALESTINE (short doc) | DamonAndJo

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israeli *censorship* of Palestinians and their supporters.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>



The “ Palestinian Territories “ that we’re part of Egypt and Jordan? From what I have read, they    were never referred to as being “ occupied “.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *This is another British Rabble-Rouser that has nothing better to talk about _(a frustrated antisemitic activist)_.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

We should not be surprised.   This is not unlike the examples of Americans flying the "Stars and Bars" in the vain hope and illusion that the South will someday rise again.  _(That ain't happen_*!*_)_

The Arab Palestinians played no real or decisive role in the 1948 Invasion against the Jewish Right to Self-Determination and THEREFORE have no real standing (no legal basis for filing a complaint) since they were not really a party to the conflict _(Israeli Forces 'v' Arab League Forces)_; nothing ventured in the conflict and nothing to be gained → whether or not the Arab League Forces were successful.  If the Arab League was successful _(ie Israeli Forces defeated)_, the territory falls to the Arab League, not the Palestinians.  And there is no reason to believe the Arab League Forces would relinquish control to the Arab Palestinians as demonstrated by the Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip and the Annexation of the West Bank to the Hashemite Kingdom.

If there was a Nakba (catastrophe), it was the demonstrated failure by the leadership as exhibited by the Arab League Leaders and not the Israelis.  It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups  →  non-international armed conflict • NIAC to a conflict involving several Arab League nations  →  an International Armed Conflict • AIC.  Today, the conflict has expanded to include direct involvement by the Islamic Republic of Iran contributing military aid through the on-site Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF).





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *This is another British Rabble-Rouser that has nothing better to talk about _(a frustrated antisemitic activist)_.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 336815​
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> We should not be surprised.   This is not unlike the examples of Americans flying the "Stars and Bars" in the vain hope and illusion that the South will someday rise again.  _(That ain't happen_*!*_)_
> 
> The Arab Palestinians played no real or decisive role in the 1948 Invasion against the Jewish Right to Self-Determination and THEREFORE have no real standing (no legal basis for filing a complaint) since they were not really a party to the conflict _(Israeli Forces 'v' Arab League Forces)_; nothing ventured in the conflict and nothing to be gained → whether or not the Arab League Forces were successful.  If the Arab League was successful _(ie Israeli Forces defeated)_, the territory falls to the Arab League, not the Palestinians.  And there is no reason to believe the Arab League Forces would relinquish control to the Arab Palestinians as demonstrated by the Military Governorship in the Gaza Strip and the Annexation of the West Bank to the Hashemite Kingdom.
> 
> If there was a Nakba (catastrophe), it was the demonstrated failure by the leadership as exhibited by the Arab League Leaders and not the Israelis.  It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups  →  non-international armed conflict • NIAC to a conflict involving several Arab League nations  →  an International Armed Conflict • AIC.  Today, the conflict has expanded to include direct involvement by the Islamic Republic of Iran contributing military aid through the on-site Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps - Quds Force (IRGC-QF).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups


I am not sure where this civil war shtick came from.There were, in fact, two groups of people. The native Palestinians and foreign colonial settlers. That can hardly be defined as a civil war. It was a foreign intervention before the Arab armies entered Palestine.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> I am not sure where this civil war shtick came from.There were, in fact, two groups of people. The native Palestinians and foreign colonial settlers. That can hardly be defined as a civil war. It was a foreign intervention before the Arab armies entered Palestine.



That's because your history starts late, in the middle of the conflict,
Pali propaganda won't dare touch on the Arab pogroms that triggered the Zionist uprising.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things. 



RoccoR said:


> It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups





P F Tinmore said:


> I am not sure where this civil war shtick came from.There were, in fact, two groups of people. The native Palestinians and foreign colonial settlers. That can hardly be defined as a civil war. It was a foreign intervention before the Arab armies entered Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

Both the Jewish People and the Arab Palestinians were, by law, the people of the same government (Civil Administration of Palestine by the UK Government).

Depending on when you select the date the conflict started; it has something to do with the type and kind of conflict it is.  In some cases, the c conflict for all intent and purposes starts on 1 June 1946.  And this is the date the UNRWA Consolidate Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) uses to determine Palestinian Refugee Status.  Others consider the outbreak of hostilities on 29 November 1947, when General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) was approved.  And still others say the conflict started on 15 May when the National Council for the Jewish State applied to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) for recognition as the new Provisional Government for the (Jewish) State of Israel.

​


			
				Page 1729 • Black's Law Dictionary 7th Ed (1999) said:
			
		

> _*civil war.*_ An internal armed conflict between people of the same nation; esp. (usu. cap.).​​_*imperfect war.*_ A war limited in terms of places, persons, and things.​​_*solemn war.*_ A war formally declared esp. by public declaration by one country against another.​​


​*(COMMENT)*

The conflict between non-governmental factions *prior* to Midnight 14/15 May 1948 can either be considered a "Civil War" or an "Imperfect War."  The two factions of the conflict being the Arabs of the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration - and that of - the Jewish People holding citizenship under the Citizenship Law • as granted by the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration.

*IF* you consider the start of the conflict being based on the statement by the Arab Higher Committee Delegation - addressed to the Secretary-General, which contains the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, *THEN* the conflict can be considered a "solemn war."

Like an algebraic equation that can produce more than one solution.  *IF* you define each solution as an answer, *THEN* you view the equation one way.  *IF* you define the answers to be the set of the collection of solutions, *THEN,* you have a different view of the equation. And that brings us to the question of political equations and your approach. Out of the set of solutions, you pick the one solution that favors your position, and only your position. While it is true that your solution may very well satisfies the political Question of Palestine, it may be myopic and not lead to a stable environment.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure where this civil war shtick came from.There were, in fact, two groups of people. The native Palestinians and foreign colonial settlers. That can hardly be defined as a civil war. It was a foreign intervention before the Arab armies entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Both the Jewish People and the Arab Palestinians were, by law, the people of the same government (Civil Administration of Palestine by the UK Government).
> 
> Depending on when you select the date the conflict started; it has something to do with the type and kind of conflict it is.  In some cases, the c conflict for all intent and purposes starts on 1 June 1946.  And this is the date the UNRWA Consolidate Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) uses to determine Palestinian Refugee Status.  Others consider the outbreak of hostilities on 29 November 1947, when General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) was approved.  And still others say the conflict started on 15 May when the National Council for the Jewish State applied to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) for recognition as the new Provisional Government for the (Jewish) State of Israel.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Page 1729 • Black's Law Dictionary 7th Ed (1999) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*civil war.*_ An internal armed conflict between people of the same nation; esp. (usu. cap.).​​_*imperfect war.*_ A war limited in terms of places, persons, and things.​​_*solemn war.*_ A war formally declared esp. by public declaration by one country against another.​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> The conflict between non-governmental factions *prior* to Midnight 14/15 May 1948 can either be considered a "Civil War" or an "Imperfect War."  The two factions of the conflict being the Arabs of the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration - and that of - the Jewish People holding citizenship under the Citizenship Law • as granted by the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration.
> 
> *IF* you consider the start of the conflict being based on the statement by the Arab Higher Committee Delegation - addressed to the Secretary-General, which contains the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, *THEN* the conflict can be considered a "solemn war."
> 
> Like an algebraic equation that can produce more than one solution.  *IF* you define each solution as an answer, *THEN* you view the equation one way.  *IF* you define the answers to be the set of the collection of solutions, *THEN,* you have a different view of the equation. And that brings us to the question of political equations and your approach. Out of the set of solutions, you pick the one solution that favors your position, and only your position. While it is true that your solution may very well satisfies the political Question of Palestine, it may be myopic and not lead to a stable environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Or it could have started with the Balfour Declaration when Britain promised to fuck the Palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

At the time of the Balfour Declaration (November 1917) The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA:  1918-1920) had not been formed yet.  The people you call "Palestinians" were still subjects of the Ottoman Empire.  Those citizens were living in the Ottoman Vilayet of Beirut or the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.  In fact, the Mudros Armistice with the Ottoman Empire (October 30, 1918), which was effectively the end of the Great War, was not signed aboard His Britannic Majesty’s Ship Agamemnon, by Admiral Arthur Calthorpe, Commander-in-Chief of the British Mediterranean Fleet, at Port Mudros, until 30th October, 1918.



​


RoccoR said:


> *BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things.





P F Tinmore said:


> Or it could have started with the Balfour Declaration when Britain promised to fuck the Palestinians.


*(COMMENT)*

Meanwhile, there was a small revolt in Damascus (30 September 1918) in which the Islamic Leaders of the day appointed Sharif Hussein, Sharif, and Emir of Mecca, as the "King of the Hejaz/King of the Arabs." So, politically speaking, there was a lot of power politic maneuvering at that time. By 1918, the people you have tagged as "Palestinian" where known as the inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory, an area within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory Power.

I suppose that some people might hold to the dispute between the Jewish Immigrants and the Arab inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory.  In 1920, the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno began to refer to them as simply - "inhabitants of Palestine."  This was in the context of the Mandatory Authority's obligation to secure the development of self-governing institutions; and the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.  

Palestine, meaning "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies," was in point of fact an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  But the Arabs of Palestine completely rejected the idea of participation.  And so they remained "Arab inhabitants of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."   Nothing changed until May 1948.

So I reject your notion that the Balfour Declaration was a an event that ignited the Arab-Israeli Conflict.  The Proximate Cause of the conflict rests with the power-hungry Arab Palestinians.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> At the time of the Balfour Declaration (November 1917) The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA:  1918-1920) had not been formed yet.  The people you call "Palestinians" were still subjects of the Ottoman Empire.  Those citizens were living in the Ottoman Vilayet of Beirut or the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.  In fact, the Mudros Armistice with the Ottoman Empire (October 30, 1918), which was effectively the end of the Great War, was not signed aboard His Britannic Majesty’s Ship Agamemnon, by Admiral Arthur Calthorpe, Commander-in-Chief of the British Mediterranean Fleet, at Port Mudros, until 30th October, 1918.
> 
> View attachment 337033​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or it could have started with the Balfour Declaration when Britain promised to fuck the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Meanwhile, there was a small revolt in Damascus (30 September 1918) in which the Islamic Leaders of the day appointed Sharif Hussein, Sharif, and Emir of Mecca, as the "King of the Hejaz/King of the Arabs." So, politically speaking, there was a lot of power politic maneuvering at that time. By 1918, the people you have tagged as "Palestinian" where known as the inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory, an area within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory Power.
> 
> I suppose that some people might hold to the dispute between the Jewish Immigrants and the Arab inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory.  In 1920, the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno began to refer to them as simply - "inhabitants of Palestine."  This was in the context of the Mandatory Authority's obligation to secure the development of self-governing institutions; and the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.
> 
> Palestine, meaning "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies," was in point of fact an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  But the Arabs of Palestine completely rejected the idea of participation.  And so they remained "Arab inhabitants of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."   Nothing changed until May 1948.
> 
> So I reject your notion that the Balfour Declaration was a an event that ignited the Arab-Israeli Conflict.  The Proximate Cause of the conflict rests with the power-hungry Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Nice piece of smoke there, Rocco.

If, as you imply, there was no Palestine, why was the term "in Palestine" used in Balfour and San Remo? Why was the Mandate called the Mandate for Palestine? All this name shuffling at the time did not change who were the natives of the territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

*Israel Palestine International Law Symposium: Palestinian Rights to Resources

*


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Arab League that triggered the conflict, elevating the conflict from a civil war between two local population groups
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure where this civil war shtick came from.There were, in fact, two groups of people. The native Palestinians and foreign colonial settlers. That can hardly be defined as a civil war. It was a foreign intervention before the Arab armies entered Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Both the Jewish People and the Arab Palestinians were, by law, the people of the same government (Civil Administration of Palestine by the UK Government).
> 
> Depending on when you select the date the conflict started; it has something to do with the type and kind of conflict it is.  In some cases, the c conflict for all intent and purposes starts on 1 June 1946.  And this is the date the UNRWA Consolidate Eligibility and Registration Instructions (CERI) uses to determine Palestinian Refugee Status.  Others consider the outbreak of hostilities on 29 November 1947, when General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) was approved.  And still others say the conflict started on 15 May when the National Council for the Jewish State applied to the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) for recognition as the new Provisional Government for the (Jewish) State of Israel.
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Page 1729 • Black's Law Dictionary 7th Ed (1999) said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*civil war.*_ An internal armed conflict between people of the same nation; esp. (usu. cap.).​​_*imperfect war.*_ A war limited in terms of places, persons, and things.​​_*solemn war.*_ A war formally declared esp. by public declaration by one country against another.​​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ​*(COMMENT)*
> 
> The conflict between non-governmental factions *prior* to Midnight 14/15 May 1948 can either be considered a "Civil War" or an "Imperfect War."  The two factions of the conflict being the Arabs of the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration - and that of - the Jewish People holding citizenship under the Citizenship Law • as granted by the Government of Palestine and the UK Civil Administration.
> 
> *IF* you consider the start of the conflict being based on the statement by the Arab Higher Committee Delegation - addressed to the Secretary-General, which contains the solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, *THEN* the conflict can be considered a "solemn war."
> 
> Like an algebraic equation that can produce more than one solution.  *IF* you define each solution as an answer, *THEN* you view the equation one way.  *IF* you define the answers to be the set of the collection of solutions, *THEN,* you have a different view of the equation. And that brings us to the question of political equations and your approach. Out of the set of solutions, you pick the one solution that favors your position, and only your position. While it is true that your solution may very well satisfies the political Question of Palestine, it may be myopic and not lead to a stable environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or it could have started with the Balfour Declaration when Britain promised to fuck the Palestinians.
Click to expand...


Or with the Arabs pogroms against local Jews allover the Caliphate

- in effect initiating the Zionism uprising.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> At the time of the Balfour Declaration (November 1917) The Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA:  1918-1920) had not been formed yet.  The people you call "Palestinians" were still subjects of the Ottoman Empire.  Those citizens were living in the Ottoman Vilayet of Beirut or the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem.  In fact, the Mudros Armistice with the Ottoman Empire (October 30, 1918), which was effectively the end of the Great War, was not signed aboard His Britannic Majesty’s Ship Agamemnon, by Admiral Arthur Calthorpe, Commander-in-Chief of the British Mediterranean Fleet, at Port Mudros, until 30th October, 1918.
> 
> View attachment 337033​
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BLUF:  *You have a very narrow view of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or it could have started with the Balfour Declaration when Britain promised to fuck the Palestinians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Meanwhile, there was a small revolt in Damascus (30 September 1918) in which the Islamic Leaders of the day appointed Sharif Hussein, Sharif, and Emir of Mecca, as the "King of the Hejaz/King of the Arabs." So, politically speaking, there was a lot of power politic maneuvering at that time. By 1918, the people you have tagged as "Palestinian" where known as the inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory, an area within such boundaries as may be fixed by the Mandatory Power.
> 
> I suppose that some people might hold to the dispute between the Jewish Immigrants and the Arab inhabitants of the Enemy Occupied Territory.  In 1920, the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Reno began to refer to them as simply - "inhabitants of Palestine."  This was in the context of the Mandatory Authority's obligation to secure the development of self-governing institutions; and the safeguarding of the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants.
> 
> Palestine, meaning "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies," was in point of fact an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government.  But the Arabs of Palestine completely rejected the idea of participation.  And so they remained "Arab inhabitants of the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."   Nothing changed until May 1948.
> 
> So I reject your notion that the Balfour Declaration was a an event that ignited the Arab-Israeli Conflict.  The Proximate Cause of the conflict rests with the power-hungry Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nice piece of smoke there, Rocco.
> 
> If, as you imply, there was no Palestine, why was the term "in Palestine" used in Balfour and San Remo? Why was the Mandate called the Mandate for Palestine? All this name shuffling at the time did not change who were the natives of the territory.
Click to expand...


Palestine - was a name for a geographical area,
called 'Southern Syria' by Arabs.

The entire Pali propaganda is entirely based on this name shuffling farce,
to create a false identity by appropriating a name of the land they can't even pronounce.

But indeed all that political shenanigans didn't change history,
even the Arab mayor of Jerusalem knew well who were the real natives of the land:


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
Click to expand...


Total nonesense,
and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.

When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.

They initiated the war and lost - live with it.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
Click to expand...




rylah said:


> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.


Who is they?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
Click to expand...

Jerusalem was under Jordanian control in 1964.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is they?
Click to expand...


The Arabs who initiated pogroms against local Jews,
across the entire Caliphate.

And now whine getting humiliated by a group of former dhimmis.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Jerusalem was under Jordanian control in 1964.
Click to expand...


And the Arab fiction of "the Palestinians" not yet invented.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs who initiated pogroms against local Jews,
> across the entire Caliphate.
> 
> And now whine getting humiliated by a group of former dhimmis.
Click to expand...

No context.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It was the Zionists who gave the West Bank to Jordan. Live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Total nonesense,
> and there goes your whole "occupation" bs.
> 
> When it profits the Arab propaganda, Jordanians are 'poor Palestinians',
> when it is required to absolve Arabs of responsibility for their violence it's denied.
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They initiated the war and lost - live with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabs who initiated pogroms against local Jews,
> across the entire Caliphate.
> 
> And now whine getting humiliated by a group of former dhimmis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No context.
Click to expand...

The context - usual Islamist racist abuse against minorities.
No different than what we see today.

Arabs simply didn't expect to be defeated by a a group of dhimmis.


----------



## rylah

*‘MY GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT’: Murderer’s Mother Gloats About Birthing Terrorist*

*“The most important achievement we have made in our lives is giving birth to heroes such as these,” said the mother of one of the terrorists responsible for the murder of a 17-year-old Israel girl.*

This week IDF forces demolished the home of Qassam Barghouti, one of the terrorists who killed 17-year-old Israeli Rina Shnerb last August as well as wounding her brother and father.

In response to the demolition, Barghouti’s proud mother, Widad, told the _Quds News Network_ that “giving birth to a hero” was her “most important achievement,” Palestinian Media Watch reported.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:  *The Balfour Declaration was the first notion of Palestine as a Jewish National Home.



P F Tinmore said:


> Nice piece of smoke there, Rocco.
> 
> If, as you imply, there was no Palestine, why was the term "in Palestine" used in Balfour and San Remo? Why was the Mandate called the Mandate for Palestine? All this name shuffling at the time did not change who were the natives of the territory.


*(COMMENT)*

The Territory of Palestine in the Balfour Declaration was an undefined territory with undefined boundaries.  Like I said, the inhabitants of the territory which would later be defined as "Palestine" was called by the Ottoman Empire Authorities and the inhabitants as:



​The Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo merely copied the Language of Lord Balfour.  You will notice that they inserted the phrase:  "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them"  If the place of Palestine had existed prior to the Balfour Declaration, or even the San Remo Conference, they would have known what the boundaries were.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:  *The Balfour Declaration was the first notion of Palestine as a Jewish National Home.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice piece of smoke there, Rocco.
> 
> If, as you imply, there was no Palestine, why was the term "in Palestine" used in Balfour and San Remo? Why was the Mandate called the Mandate for Palestine? All this name shuffling at the time did not change who were the natives of the territory.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Territory of Palestine in the Balfour Declaration was an undefined territory with undefined boundaries.  Like I said, the inhabitants of the territory which would later be defined as "Palestine" was called by the Ottoman Empire Authorities and the inhabitants as:
> 
> View attachment 337198​The Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo merely copied the Language of Lord Balfour.  You will notice that they inserted the phrase:  "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them"  If the place of Palestine had existed prior to the Balfour Declaration, or even the San Remo Conference, they would have known what the boundaries were.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Yeah I knew all that, but how did that change the people who actually lived there?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Manar Muhawesh


----------



## P F Tinmore

At the moment, no place in #Gaza is safe. Israeli forces are attacking all areas of the Strip with warplanes, warships, and tanks. Every single citizen here is in danger!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

"I am Amira. I am 12 years old and live in Gaza. I used to live with my uncle's family in the house behind me for my whole life. Today, we've come to celebrate my cousin's Waleed's birthday party on top of the mound of rubble, because we don't have anywhere else to go."


----------



## P F Tinmore

Palestinian youths carried out a massive molotov attack on an Israeli military convoy leaving Kobar village in #Ramallah after the demolition of the house of political prisoner Qassam al-Barghouthi.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  You could be right.  But, is that the fault of the Israelis? - or - Is that the fault of the HAMAS leadership?







P F Tinmore said:


> At the moment, no place in #Gaza is safe. Israeli forces are attacking all areas of the Strip with warplanes, warships, and tanks. Every single citizen here is in danger!


*(COMMENT)*

Your implication here is that Israel is doing something wrong.  And the manner of presentation is to draw on the sympathy card.

But the fact remains, the response to HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_ actions is the fault of HAMAS and not the Israelis.  How many times has HAMAS orchestrated violent demonstrations at the borders?  And how many times this year, has HAMAS or other violent Hostile Arab Palestinians threatened Israel and sent out a call for martyrs?  The general population of Arab Palestinians supports the terrorist regimes that incite violence.  Terrorist organizations do not live in a vacuum.  They must have indigenous support to survive.   Support comes in many ways.  Whether is is standing on the sidewalk and waving a flag sd the hooded terrorist march by, of dressing your small children as suicide bombers, it is supported.  IF you pay taxes to HAMAS • IF you make donations to the Islamic Jihad, 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  You could be right.  But, is that the fault of the Israelis? - or - Is that the fault of the HAMAS leadership?
> 
> View attachment 337476​
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, no place in #Gaza is safe. Israeli forces are attacking all areas of the Strip with warplanes, warships, and tanks. Every single citizen here is in danger!
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Your implication here is that Israel is doing something wrong.  And the manner of presentation is to draw on the sympathy card.
> 
> But the fact remains, the response to HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_ actions is the fault of HAMAS and not the Israelis.  How many times has HAMAS orchestrated violent demonstrations at the borders?  And how many times this year, has HAMAS or other violent Hostile Arab Palestinians threatened Israel and sent out a call for martyrs?  The general population of Arab Palestinians supports the terrorist regimes that incite violence.  Terrorist organizations do not live in a vacuum.  They must have indigenous support to survive.   Support comes in many ways.  Whether is is standing on the sidewalk and waving a flag sd the hooded terrorist march by, of dressing your small children as suicide bombers, it is supported.  IF you pay taxes to HAMAS • IF you make donations to the Islamic Jihad,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?

What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
​


P F Tinmore said:


> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?


*(COMMENT)*

HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.



P F Tinmore said:


> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?


*(COMMENT)*

Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.  

The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.

*Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​





​For more details see the direct links :

                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)              
                               Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum              
Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinian youths carried out a massive molotov attack on an Israeli military convoy leaving Kobar village in #Ramallah after the demolition of the house of political prisoner Qassam al-Barghouthi.



To murder a 17 y.o. Israeli girl is "political activity"?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.


Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.


RoccoR said:


> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.


A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.


RoccoR said:


> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.


How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?

Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian youths carried out a massive molotov attack on an Israeli military convoy leaving Kobar village in #Ramallah after the demolition of the house of political prisoner Qassam al-Barghouthi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To murder a 17 y.o. Israeli girl is "political activity"?
Click to expand...

Israel murders Palestinian children by the thousands.

What is your point?


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian youths carried out a massive molotov attack on an Israeli military convoy leaving Kobar village in #Ramallah after the demolition of the house of political prisoner Qassam al-Barghouthi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To murder a 17 y.o. Israeli girl is "political activity"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders Palestinian children by the thousands.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


You don’t convince me of anything, Tinmore.

Other than your own personal hobby horse.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian youths carried out a massive molotov attack on an Israeli military convoy leaving Kobar village in #Ramallah after the demolition of the house of political prisoner Qassam al-Barghouthi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To murder a 17 y.o. Israeli girl is "political activity"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israel murders Palestinian children by the thousands.
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


The cynical use of children's death as an appeal to their intentional murder?
Or celebration of mothers with their kids in suicide vests.

The typical set of Jihadi degradation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.

We've been all over the documents,
in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.

Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
- all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.

Need examples?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
> By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> We've been all over the documents,
> in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
> that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.
> 
> Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
> - all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.
> 
> Need examples?
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
> By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> We've been all over the documents,
> in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
> that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.
> 
> Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
> - all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.
> 
> Need examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
Click to expand...


And yet you have nothing to refute these facts,
or a single document vesting sovereignty with any Arab nation.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
> By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> We've been all over the documents,
> in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
> that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.
> 
> Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
> - all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.
> 
> Need examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet you have nothing to refute these facts,
> or a single document vesting sovereignty with any Arab nation.
Click to expand...

I have, but Zionists are slow learners.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
> By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> We've been all over the documents,
> in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
> that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.
> 
> Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
> - all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.
> 
> Need examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet you have nothing to refute these facts,
> or a single document vesting sovereignty with any Arab nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
Click to expand...


Slow learners, as in you can't produce a single international law
that mentions the territory being vested with an Arab sovereignty?

I've got plenty literally mentioning the Jewish nation and re-constitution.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF: * The Hostile Arab Palestinians must accept the consequences of their destuctive actions in violence.
> ​
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say something or is this just another smear?
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to the 40 years of occupation before there was Hamas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Let's see:  HAMAS was created in 1988.  The Israelis made their unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005.
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.  It was not taken from the Arab Palestinians.  On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> *Article II*​​The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.​
> 
> View attachment 337602View attachment 337603​For more details see the direct links :
> 
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - After the Signing - Photo (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Hebrew
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum - Oil
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - English
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map of Demilitarization Arrangements for the Sinai (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Annex I - Map 1 (Withdrawal Zones) - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 1 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 5 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 2 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 4 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Newspaper Article - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 6 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - 30th Anniversary Video
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Map - Hebrew (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Photo of the signing
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - Border Demarcation Map 3 - English (1979)
> Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty - American - Israeli Memorandum
> Until 2005 Israeli Unilateral withdrawal, the territory was never sovereign under the Arab Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> HAMAS and the members of their general population are the proximate cause for the military action taken against the hostile opponents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self defense.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> The prior control of the Gaza Strip by the Israelis came about in 1967 when the Arab Foreign with the withdrawal of the Egyptian Military Governorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 March 1979 (10 years before HAMAS was created) and without prejudice to the Arab Palestinians, an Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty established the new international boundaries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did St. Petersburg acquire territory in Leningrad?
> By being a subject of the nation vested with sovereignty over the territory.
> 
> We've been all over the documents,
> in all these years you've been  unable to produce a single document
> that shows specifically that the sovereignty was ever vested with Arabs.
> 
> Govt. documents, and even the coins Pali propaganda love to flail so much
> - all have Hebrew and '*Land of Israel*' written on them.
> 
> Need examples?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet you have nothing to refute these facts,
> or a single document vesting sovereignty with any Arab nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have, but Zionists are slow learners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Slow learners, as in you can't produce a single international law
> that mentions the territory being vested with an Arab sovereignty?
> 
> I've got plenty literally mentioning the Jewish nation and re-constitution.
Click to expand...

I ask a specific question and you respond with irrelevant Israeli talking points.

How should I respond?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:  Part of the problem here is your not connecting the dots.



P F Tinmore said:


> Only if you rule out Palestinian self-defense.


*(COMMENT)*

The Hostile Arab Palestinian Aggressors cannot claim self-defense.  They have nothing to defend and have not exercised any dispute resolution process in over 70 years.

The Arab Palestinians were NOT attacked or subject to aggression by the Israelis.  In the case of the Gaza Strip, the 1948 Arab League assault on Israel did NOT END until the 1979 Treaty with Egypt.  Notice that this is almost 10 years before the Palestine Liberation Organization declared independence.  



P F Tinmore said:


> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.


*(COMMENT)*

As demonstrated, supra, the Palestinians cannot claim they had sovereign control of the Gaza Strip until the withdrawal in 2005 by the Israeli.  This is when the Israeli voluntarily relinquished effective control.  Before 2005, it was NOT autonomous under Arab Palestinian control.



P F Tinmore said:


> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?


*(COMMENT)

 "**Self-Determination**"*

*Definition of self-determination*

1 *: *free choice of one's own acts or states without external compulsion​ 
2 *: *determination by the people of a territorial unit of their own future political status​​"*The principle of self-determination* is mentioned in the United Nations Charter and has often been stressed in resolutions passed by the UN General Assembly. The concept is most often used in connection with the right of colonies to independence. It does not relate to attempts at independence by groups, such as the French Canadians or the Nagas of India, who do not possess their own sovereign states."

 But the logic of your question is, in itself, questionable.

 THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:

Suppose for a moment that the "Right of Self-Determination" DID NOT EXIST in 1948*!*

◈  What impact would that have on Israel of today?​​✦  Is International Body going to take repossess the nation and return it to some undefined entity?​​✦  Is International Body going to dismantle the Jewish National Home?​​✦  Is International Body going to destroy the most developed nation of all the other nations in the Middle East?​
Do any of all the other nations in the Middle East actually want to turn over the State of Israel to any of the terrorist factions controlling the Arab Palestinians?  Do they really want the Hostile Arab Palestinians in favor of a Caliph to have control over the Shimon Peres Negev Nuclear Research Center?  For heaven's sake, HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_ would be selling tickets for tours and FATAH _(the other Palestinian political and military organization)_ would be holding auctions over materials in the first hour.

I don't really understand the intent of your question.  OR  What you expect some international body to do.  But I don't think that any international body is going to want to expand the conflict beyond the confined area it has now.

Tell me_*!*_
 




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> *The principle of self-determination*


Thanks for the link.

*Self-Determination​*​
_The political right of the majority to the exercise of power within the boundaries of a generally accepted political unit, area, or territory._​

When Palestine was created in 1924 it was a territory defined by international borders. The Palestinians became Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine. This was determined by citizenship in the former sovereign, the Turkish/Ottoman Empire.

At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.

Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.

These numbers do not add up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Part of the problem here is your not connecting the dots.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you rule out Palestinian self-defense.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The Hostile Arab Palestinian Aggressors cannot claim self-defense.  They have nothing to defend and have not exercised any dispute resolution process in over 70 years.
> 
> The Arab Palestinians were NOT attacked or subject to aggression by the Israelis.  In the case of the Gaza Strip, the 1948 Arab League assault on Israel did NOT END until the 1979 Treaty with Egypt.  Notice that this is almost 10 years before the Palestine Liberation Organization declared independence.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Military Governorship does not hold sovereignty. The Gaza Strip was (is) occupied Palestinian territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> As demonstrated, supra, the Palestinians cannot claim they had sovereign control of the Gaza Strip until the withdrawal in 2005 by the Israeli.  This is when the Israeli voluntarily relinquished effective control.  Before 2005, it was NOT autonomous under Arab Palestinian control.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did a Palestinian border turn into an Israeli border? How did Israel acquire that territory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)
> 
> "**Self-Determination**"*
> 
> *Definition of self-determination*
> 
> 1 *: *free choice of one's own acts or states without external compulsion​
> 2 *: *determination by the people of a territorial unit of their own future political status​​"*The principle of self-determination* is mentioned in the United Nations Charter and has often been stressed in resolutions passed by the UN General Assembly. The concept is most often used in connection with the right of colonies to independence. It does not relate to attempts at independence by groups, such as the French Canadians or the Nagas of India, who do not possess their own sovereign states."
> 
> But the logic of your question is, in itself, questionable.
> 
> THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:
> 
> Suppose for a moment that the "Right of Self-Determination" DID NOT EXIST in 1948*!*
> 
> ◈  What impact would that have on Israel of today?​​✦  Is International Body going to take repossess the nation and return it to some undefined entity?​​✦  Is International Body going to dismantle the Jewish National Home?​​✦  Is International Body going to destroy the most developed nation of all the other nations in the Middle East?​
> Do any of all the other nations in the Middle East actually want to turn over the State of Israel to any of the terrorist factions controlling the Arab Palestinians?  Do they really want the Hostile Arab Palestinians in favor of a Caliph to have control over the Shimon Peres Negev Nuclear Research Center?  For heaven's sake, HAMAS _(Islamic Resistance Movement)_ would be selling tickets for tours and FATAH _(the other Palestinian political and military organization)_ would be holding auctions over materials in the first hour.
> 
> I don't really understand the intent of your question.  OR  What you expect some international body to do.  But I don't think that any international body is going to want to expand the conflict beyond the confined area it has now.
> 
> Tell me_*!*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

There are multiple UN resolutions specifying the right of the Palestinian to self determination.

I have seen no corresponding resolutions for Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore

"I am Malak (Angel) and I am 13 years old. My average grade in school is 95 percent and I do not miss a day of school. I play with my friends until the sun sets and my dream is to become an Arabic teacher."

By TRT World producer, Belal Khaled


----------



## P F Tinmore

Last night, Al Shawa family celebrated the birthday of their son, Walid Al Shawa, 27, on the ruins of their house, which was destroyed a few days ago by Israeli shelling on #Gaza.

Photo by: Belal khaled


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

One day you have a warm house with your children playing around, and next day Israeli warplanes destroy it and you have no place to live in anymore. This is what families have to face when Gaza is under attack.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

*BLUF:* "Palestine" was NOT created in 1924. The UK, as the Mandatory, created the Government of Palestine. The citizenship Order for the inhabitants was made in 1925 by the Mandatory. At that time, the term "Palestine" was the short-title for the territory for which the 1922 Order in Council applied.



RoccoR said:


> *The principle of self-determination*





P F Tinmore said:


> _The political right of the majority to the exercise of power within the boundaries of a generally accepted political unit, area, or territory._
> 
> When Palestine was created in 1924 it was a territory defined by international borders. The Palestinians became Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine. This was determined by citizenship in the former sovereign, the Turkish/Ottoman Empire.
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.


*(COMMENT)*

The 1922 Mandate for Palestine made the Mandatory responsible for:
​◈   Economic conditions​◈   Full powers of legislation​◈   Full powers of administration​◈   Political situation​◈   Establishment of the Jewish National Home​◈   Facilitate Jewish immigration​◈   Enacting a nationality law​◈    Facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews​◈    Consular jurisdiction​◈    Seeing that the judicial system established​◈    The development of the country​​✦  NOTE:  The Arab Higher Committee rejected any involvement in these affairs.​​From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate in 1948, the British High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arab leaders declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. 

While the Arab Higher Committee declined to participate, the Jewish Agency accepted the advisory role.  And on termination of the Mandate, the National Council for the Jewish State established a fully functional Provisional Government, while the Arab Higher Committee did not.  On 15 May 1948, the State of Israel was created and the remainder of the Trustee Territory of Palestine continued to be a legal entity but not be a sovereign state.

It really doesn't matter about the numbers and percentages at the time.  What did matter was the creation of a functional government...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* "Palestine" was NOT created in 1924. The UK, as the Mandatory, created the Government of Palestine. The citizenship Order for the inhabitants was made in 1925 by the Mandatory. At that time, the term "Palestine" was the short-title for the territory for which the 1922 Order in Council applied.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The principle of self-determination*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The political right of the majority to the exercise of power within the boundaries of a generally accepted political unit, area, or territory._
> 
> When Palestine was created in 1924 it was a territory defined by international borders. The Palestinians became Palestinian nationals and citizens of Palestine. This was determined by citizenship in the former sovereign, the Turkish/Ottoman Empire.
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> The 1922 Mandate for Palestine made the Mandatory responsible for:
> ​◈   Economic conditions​◈   Full powers of legislation​◈   Full powers of administration​◈   Political situation​◈   Establishment of the Jewish National Home​◈   Facilitate Jewish immigration​◈   Enacting a nationality law​◈    Facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews​◈    Consular jurisdiction​◈    Seeing that the judicial system established​◈    The development of the country​​✦  NOTE:  The Arab Higher Committee rejected any involvement in these affairs.​​From 1922 until the termination of the Mandate in 1948, the British High Commissioner governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.  The Arab leaders declined to participate in the establishment of self-governing institutions on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people.
> 
> While the Arab Higher Committee declined to participate, the Jewish Agency accepted the advisory role.  And on termination of the Mandate, the National Council for the Jewish State established a fully functional Provisional Government, while the Arab Higher Committee did not.  On 15 May 1948, the State of Israel was created and the remainder of the Trustee Territory of Palestine continued to be a legal entity but not be a sovereign state.
> 
> It really doesn't matter about the numbers and percentages at the time.  What did matter was the creation of a functional government...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Noor Daoud Professional Drifter : Female driver from Palestine pilots 850hp BMW E46

*


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Palestine’s Nakba: 72 Years of Displacement, Exile, and Oppression

*


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza riots.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.



So what, 
is this an argument against self determination of minorities?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Gaza International Airport


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what,
> is this an argument against self determination of minorities?
Click to expand...

Not at all. What would make you think that?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what,
> is this an argument against self determination of minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. What would make you think that?
Click to expand...


Then what difference does the percentage of Jews make?
Either you support self determination for minorities, or deny it by definition.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


>


Palestine originated as a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews. Israel is palestine.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Who are the Palestinians? What are they doing? How do they live?
> 
> *Dr. Hanan Ashrawi - Framing the Current Issues in Palestine*
> Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation - 16th International Conference
> 
> **



Who are the “palestinians“? Jews were originally called “palestinians,” by the British in the British Mandate, nicknamed “palestine,” an old Roman name imposed on Jews. These are Western terms, not Middle Eastern. Arabs began using them in the 1960s.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what,
> is this an argument against self determination of minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. What would make you think that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what difference does the percentage of Jews make?
> Either you support self determination for minorities, or deny it by definition.
Click to expand...

It didn't to the Palestinians. They wanted Palestinians to be Palestinians without religious designations.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what,
> is this an argument against self determination of minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. What would make you think that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what difference does the percentage of Jews make?
> Either you support self determination for minorities, or deny it by definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It didn't to the Palestinians. They wanted Palestinians to be Palestinians without religious designations.
Click to expand...


Arabs historically viewed the country as Syria, Sham in Arabic. Not palestine, an old Roman name imposed on Jews, later Britain’s name for the British Mandate. They historically identified as Arabs or Syrians or Muslims, or as Ottoman nationals in the Ottoman Empire. They did not identify as palestinians until comparatively recently.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> At that time the Jewish citizenship was 5% or so.
> 
> Even when Israel was declared, the Jewish population was only about 1/3 and citizenship in Palestine was considerably less than that.
> 
> These numbers do not add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what,
> is this an argument against self determination of minorities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. What would make you think that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then what difference does the percentage of Jews make?
> Either you support self determination for minorities, or deny it by definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It didn't to the Palestinians. They wanted Palestinians to be Palestinians without religious designations.
Click to expand...


Is that why Arabs were represented by religious clergy?

They wanted an exclusive ethno-religious domination over the entire middle east.
And got humiliated by the smallest nation of former dhimmis.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *



Most “palestinians” reject peaceful co-existence with Israel and favor violence.
Poll finds Palestinians overwhelmingly reject Trump plan


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” reject peaceful co-existence with Israel and favor violence.
> Poll finds Palestinians overwhelmingly reject Trump plan
Click to expand...

The Palestinians do not like Trump's "steal of the century."

So?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ MartyNYC, et al,

I have to agree.



P F Tinmore said:


> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen*





MartyNYC said:


> Most “palestinians” reject peaceful co-existence with Israel and favor violence.
> Poll finds Palestinians overwhelmingly reject Trump plan


*(COMMENT)*

That is my impression as well.  You will always be able to find some anecdotal examples of an Arab Palestinian that is in favor of a peaceful remedy, most of them are in support of violence.  You can tell that by the way they teach their children.  _(ex Ahed Tamimi, a child demonstrator that turned activism into an easy career.)_  This is a generational transference of hatred from one generation to the next.  They are so screwed up, that they think violence is actually legal.




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ MartyNYC, et al,
> 
> I have to agree.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” reject peaceful co-existence with Israel and favor violence.
> Poll finds Palestinians overwhelmingly reject Trump plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> That is my impression as well.  You will always be able to find some anecdotal examples of an Arab Palestinian that is in favor of a peaceful remedy, most of them are in support of violence.  You can tell that by the way they teach their children.  _(ex Ahed Tamimi, a child demonstrator that turned activism into an easy career.)_  This is a generational transference of hatred from one generation to the next.  They are so screwed up, that they think violence is actually legal.
> 
> View attachment 338517
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

You are just sliming the Palestinians like you always do.

You mentioned Ahed Tamimi. Nabi Saleh had regular demonstrations. The demonstrations were in their own village. Nobody was being injured. No property was being damaged. 

Yet Israel went there to shoot up the demonstrators. Why?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ MartyNYC, et al,
> 
> I have to agree.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The Quest for a Just Peace", Part 1. Speeches by Yousef Munayyer and Rabbi Brant Rosen*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most “palestinians” reject peaceful co-existence with Israel and favor violence.
> Poll finds Palestinians overwhelmingly reject Trump plan
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> That is my impression as well.  You will always be able to find some anecdotal examples of an Arab Palestinian that is in favor of a peaceful remedy, most of them are in support of violence.  You can tell that by the way they teach their children.  _(ex Ahed Tamimi, a child demonstrator that turned activism into an easy career.)_  This is a generational transference of hatred from one generation to the next.  They are so screwed up, that they think violence is actually legal.
> 
> View attachment 338517
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are just sliming the Palestinians like you always do.
> 
> You mentioned Ahed Tamimi. Nabi Saleh had regular demonstrations. The demonstrations were in their own village. Nobody was being injured. No property was being damaged.
> 
> Yet Israel went there to shoot up the demonstrators. Why?
Click to expand...


Do you even realize how infantile this sounds?

Nabi Saleh is placed at the top of a hill from which the residents regularity target vehicles driving through the road downhill, solely to pull attention for a media stunt with police.
Not to mention the family's direct involvement in suicide attacks.

These are your 'demonstrations',
so live with the results.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

P F Tinmore said:


>


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> P F Tinmore said:
Click to expand...

Z
Yy


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Z
> Yy
Click to expand...

YAWN..., No thread or proof who is


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


>



58,000 posts by you for the last 11 years about “palestine,” a fictional name for the British Mandate, a European colonialist entity, which ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood.


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,

BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.



P F Tinmore said:


>


*(COMMENT)*

It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Veterans are honored all over the world.


----------



## MartyNYC

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...


Why do you even bother?


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


>


Is Gaza an Arabic word?


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Veterans are honored all over the world.
Click to expand...



Alright, just to play devil's advocate here...

What is the difference between a martyr and a veteran?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Veterans are honored all over the world.
Click to expand...

Normal people around the world don't celebrates veterans of the enemy - only traitors do.

And who is holding the sign?

A family that sent a suicide bomber into a Pizza restaurant.
These are your "veterans" - cowardly filth who doesn't deserve to be even called a man.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Veterans are honored all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Normal people around the world don't celebrates veterans of the enemy - only traitors do.
> 
> And who is holding the sign?
> 
> A family that sent a suicide bomber into a Pizza restaurant.
> These are your "veterans" - cowardly filth who doesn't deserve to be even called a man.
Click to expand...

Is that more cowardly that someone in an airplar dropping bombs on family homes.


----------



## MartyNYC

Where is “palestine”?


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  Your commentaries here seem to suggest two equally obnoxious political and loyalty positions.

Our friend Shusha shines a light on an extremely important distinction.  In no way can you relate the two meanings, no matter which meanings you choose to compare:  _(See:  American Heritage Dictionary, ed 3) _

*◈  vet·er·an*  n. 1. A person who is long experienced or practiced in an activity or a capacity: a veteran of political campaigns. 2. A person who has served in the armed forces: “Privilege, a token income... were allowed for veterans of both world wars” (Mavis Gallant). 3. An old soldier who has seen long service. — adj. 1. Having had long experience or practice: a veteran actor. 2. Of or relating to former members of the armed forces: veteran benefits.​​*◈  mar·tyr* n. 1. One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles. 2. One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle. 3. a. One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis. b. One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy. — v. tr. mar·tyred, mar·tyr·ing, mar·tyrs. 1. To make a martyr of, especially to put to death for devotion to religious beliefs. 2. To inflict great pain on; torment.​​As you can see: 

*◈  *The first one relates to "experience" • "service" • "soldier" • "armed forces."​​*◈  *The Second one relates to "suffering" • "religious principles" • "to further a belief, cause, or principle."   And my personal favorite:  great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.​


Shusha said:


> What is the difference between a martyr and a veteran?





P F Tinmore said:


> Veterans are honored all over the world.





P F Tinmore said:


> Is that more cowardly that someone in an airplar dropping bombs on family homes.


*(COMMENT)*

You are very correct → the dropping of "bombs on family homes" has a relationship to the distant characteristic of "cowardice."  But this cowardice has to do with the misfeasance, malfeasance and/or nonfeasance on the part of the Arab Palestinians, rather than the Israelis.  In most cases _(not every case • but most cases)_ the Arab Palestinians bring the death and destruction upon themselves.  *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.  They bear the responsibilities for casualties incurred as a result of Hostile Arab Palestinian criminal activity _(Article 68 GCIV - C&IHL)_. 
​


​




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  Your commentaries here seem to suggest two equally obnoxious political and loyalty positions.
> 
> Our friend Shusha shines a light on an extremely important distinction.  In no way can you relate the two meanings, no matter which meanings you choose to compare:  _(See:  American Heritage Dictionary, ed 3) _
> 
> *◈  vet·er·an*  n. 1. A person who is long experienced or practiced in an activity or a capacity: a veteran of political campaigns. 2. A person who has served in the armed forces: “Privilege, a token income... were allowed for veterans of both world wars” (Mavis Gallant). 3. An old soldier who has seen long service. — adj. 1. Having had long experience or practice: a veteran actor. 2. Of or relating to former members of the armed forces: veteran benefits.​​*◈  mar·tyr* n. 1. One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles. 2. One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle. 3. a. One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis. b. One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy. — v. tr. mar·tyred, mar·tyr·ing, mar·tyrs. 1. To make a martyr of, especially to put to death for devotion to religious beliefs. 2. To inflict great pain on; torment.​​As you can see:
> 
> *◈  *The first one relates to "experience" • "service" • "soldier" • "armed forces."​​*◈  *The Second one relates to "suffering" • "religious principles" • "to further a belief, cause, or principle."   And my personal favorite:  great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.​
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between a martyr and a veteran?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Veterans are honored all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that more cowardly that someone in an airplar dropping bombs on family homes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> You are very correct → the dropping of "bombs on family homes" has a relationship to the distant characteristic of "cowardice."  But this cowardice has to do with the misfeasance, malfeasance and/or nonfeasance on the part of the Arab Palestinians, rather than the Israelis.  In most cases _(not every case • but most cases)_ the Arab Palestinians bring the death and destruction upon themselves.  *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.  They bear the responsibilities for casualties incurred as a result of Hostile Arab Palestinian criminal activity _(Article 68 GCIV - C&IHL)_.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 339008​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.


Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.



RoccoR said:


> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.





P F Tinmore said:


> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.


*(COMMENT)*

When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
*Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?  

Break it down, one piece at a time...





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MartyNYC

Where is “palestine”?


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
> *Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Break it down, one piece at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...




RoccoR said:


> *Question:* What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?


The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.

And they did just what they said.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
> *Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Break it down, one piece at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Question:* What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
Click to expand...


Um, “palestine” is Israel. It was a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews, about 2,000 years ago, in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. “Palestinian“ was a made-up European name for Jews in the British Mandate, which Britain called palestine.

BBC documentary on Bar Kokhba rebellion in Judea (“land of the Jews”) against Roman Empire. There were no “palestinians”


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
> *Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Break it down, one piece at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Question:* What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
Click to expand...


Natives who can't pronounce the name of the land?


----------



## MartyNYC

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
> *Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Break it down, one piece at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Question:* What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Natives who can't pronounce the name of the place?
Click to expand...

Arabs


MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  And herein rests the dispute.  Who attacked who and for what.
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IF* they followed the Customary and International Humanitarian Law _(C&IHL)_ _(including the Geneva Convention)_, *THEN* death and destruction would not follow back to them as a consequence of their unlawful activity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis are only attacked due to their unlawful activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> When you reduce the political equation to solve for a solution, then you have three factors that describe the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as it relates to the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.
> 
> ◈  The Arab League attacked Israel first.​◈  For the most part, the Arab League disputed are resolved by agreement.​◈  The Arab Palestinians refused to accept the outcome and continued the conflict.​
> *Question:*  What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Break it down, one piece at a time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Question:* What is the nature of the complaint by the Arab Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, “palestine” is Israel. It was a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews, about 2,000 years ago, in retribution for the Jewish Bar Kokhba Revolt. “Palestinian“ was a made-up European name for Jews in the British Mandate, which Britain called palestine.
> 
> BBC documentary on Bar Kokhba rebellion in Judea (“land of the Jews”) against Roman Empire. There were no “palestinians”
Click to expand...


Had Jews not rebelled against the occupying Roman Empire, the name of their country would not have been changed to palestine, an attempt to erase the ancient Jewish heritage of the country, and the terms “palestine“ and “palestinian“ would not even exist today.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore, , et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is an example and self-evident proof that the common Arab Palestinian supports the factions of their populations that have conducted kidnapping and murders, hi-jacked aircraft and even a cruise liner, intercepted public buses → lined-up and machine-gunned all the passengers _(including a dozen children)_, conducted suicide bombing of public businesses, and more.  And they claim that this is legal.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> It is why they are not a member of the moral society in which we live.  Martyrs represent the worst aspect of humanity.  These two women are just a symptom of the psychotic behaviors; that are passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Veterans are honored all over the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Normal people around the world don't celebrates veterans of the enemy - only traitors do.
> 
> And who is holding the sign?
> 
> A family that sent a suicide bomber into a Pizza restaurant.
> These are your "veterans" - cowardly filth who doesn't deserve to be even called a man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that more cowardly that someone in an airplar dropping bombs on family homes.
Click to expand...


If that is the intent the yes, 
there's no such question about the intent of a suicide bomber.

Militants who intentionally fire from within civilian population,
carry all the responsibility for the consequences.
Including those at preparation stage.


----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

*BLUF:* This is useless, maybe even less than useless, without a date (period) and area (territory).



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.


*(COMMENT)*

And, if there is a complaint, what is the suggested remedy?





Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* This is useless, maybe even less than useless, without a date (period) and area (territory).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And, if there is a complaint, what is the suggested remedy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

Decolonization.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* This is useless, maybe even less than useless, without a date (period) and area (territory).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And, if there is a complaint, what is the suggested remedy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Decolonization.
Click to expand...

Arabs colonizing Jews’ ancient homeland.


----------



## MartyNYC

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> *BLUF:* This is useless, maybe even less than useless, without a date (period) and area (territory).
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when settlers came down from Europe with the stated goal of moving the natives aside and setting up their own place.
> 
> And they did just what they said.
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> And, if there is a complaint, what is the suggested remedy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Decolonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arabs colonizing Jews’ ancient homeland.
Click to expand...


Ancient Jewish synagogue in Syria centuries before any mosques 

Dura-Europos: Excavating Antiquity | Yale University Art Gallery


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Why Israel Fears the Nakba: How Memory Became Palestine’s Greatest Weapon *

*Israel is afraid of Palestinian memory, since it is the only facet of its war against the Palestinian people that it cannot fully control.*

On May 15, thousands of Palestinians in Occupied Palestine and throughout the ‘_shatat’,_ or diaspora, participated in the commemoration of Nakba Day, the one event that unites all Palestinians, regardless of their political differences or backgrounds.

For years, social media has added a whole new stratum to this process of commemoration. #Nakba72, along with #NakbaDay and #Nakba, have all trended on Twitter for days. Facebook was inundated with countless stories, videos, images, and statements, written by Palestinians, or in global support of the Palestinian people.

The dominant Nakba narrative remains – 72 years following the destruction of historic Palestine at the hands of Zionist militias – an opportunity to reassert the centrality of the Right of Return for Palestinian refugees. Over 750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes in Palestine in 1947-48. The surviving refugees and their descendants are now estimated at over five million.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## RoccoR

RE:  Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,

BLUF:  This is another unsubstantiated claim.  



P F Tinmore said:


> *Why Israel Fears the Nakba: How Memory Became Palestine’s Greatest Weapon *
> 
> *Israel is afraid of Palestinian memory, since it is the only facet of its war against the Palestinian people that it cannot fully control.*


*(COMMENT)*

Most of us do not remember the memories in the first stage of our lives _(between one and four years old)_. "Research has indicated that most people’s earliest memories, on average, date back to when they were 3-1/2 years old."  (_See: Psychology Today_)

Let's see if you can connect the dots here...

Life expectancy at birth:  This entry contains the average number of years to be lived by a group of people born in the same year, if mortality at each age remains constant in the future. Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital and is necessary for the calculation of various actuarial measures.                              

  See the *Pyramid Chart*.

         total population:          75.9 years         

male:          73.8 years​ 
female:          78.1 years  (2020 est.)​





           The Nakba was ≈ 72 years ago.  Add 3.5 years until memories start to stick.  That is 75+ years old if you were of a memory forming age at the time of the Nakba.     There were less than 700,000 refugees _(less than a million displaced persons and not all of them were forced transfers)_.  Of that number, there are less than a half-% (.005).  That means _(all things being equal)_ optimistically there would be ≈ 3.5K in the population that "might have memories" of that period.  Even at age 6, memory perception is somewhat dubious.  Someone that is 80 years old trying to recall events at the early ages of 3 to 6 yo would have some difficulty distinguishing facts from the storytelling. 

It is not reasonable to assume that anyone in their right mind is going to base any credibility on pre-school memories that are over three-quarters of a century old.             




Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

Palestine doesn’t exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore

RoccoR said:


> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is another unsubstantiated claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Israel Fears the Nakba: How Memory Became Palestine’s Greatest Weapon *
> 
> *Israel is afraid of Palestinian memory, since it is the only facet of its war against the Palestinian people that it cannot fully control.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Most of us do not remember the memories in the first stage of our lives _(between one and four years old)_. "Research has indicated that most people’s earliest memories, on average, date back to when they were 3-1/2 years old."  (_See: Psychology Today_)
> 
> Let's see if you can connect the dots here...
> 
> Life expectancy at birth:  This entry contains the average number of years to be lived by a group of people born in the same year, if mortality at each age remains constant in the future. Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital and is necessary for the calculation of various actuarial measures.
> 
> See the *Pyramid Chart*.
> 
> total population:          75.9 years
> 
> male:          73.8 years​
> female:          78.1 years  (2020 est.)​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nakba was ≈ 72 years ago.  Add 3.5 years until memories start to stick.  That is 75+ years old if you were of a memory forming age at the time of the Nakba.     There were less than 700,000 refugees _(less than a million displaced persons and not all of them were forced transfers)_.  Of that number, there are less than a half-% (.005).  That means _(all things being equal)_ optimistically there would be ≈ 3.5K in the population that "might have memories" of that period.  Even at age 6, memory perception is somewhat dubious.  Someone that is 80 years old trying to recall events at the early ages of 3 to 6 yo would have some difficulty distinguishing facts from the storytelling.
> 
> It is not reasonable to assume that anyone in their right mind is going to base any credibility on pre-school memories that are over three-quarters of a century old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
Click to expand...

It is not the memory of a person. It is the memory of a people. It is history.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> RE:  Palestine Today
> ⁜→ P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> BLUF:  This is another unsubstantiated claim.
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why Israel Fears the Nakba: How Memory Became Palestine’s Greatest Weapon *
> 
> *Israel is afraid of Palestinian memory, since it is the only facet of its war against the Palestinian people that it cannot fully control.*
> 
> 
> 
> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> Most of us do not remember the memories in the first stage of our lives _(between one and four years old)_. "Research has indicated that most people’s earliest memories, on average, date back to when they were 3-1/2 years old."  (_See: Psychology Today_)
> 
> Let's see if you can connect the dots here...
> 
> Life expectancy at birth:  This entry contains the average number of years to be lived by a group of people born in the same year, if mortality at each age remains constant in the future. Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital and is necessary for the calculation of various actuarial measures.
> 
> See the *Pyramid Chart*.
> 
> total population:          75.9 years
> 
> male:          73.8 years​
> female:          78.1 years  (2020 est.)​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nakba was ≈ 72 years ago.  Add 3.5 years until memories start to stick.  That is 75+ years old if you were of a memory forming age at the time of the Nakba.     There were less than 700,000 refugees _(less than a million displaced persons and not all of them were forced transfers)_.  Of that number, there are less than a half-% (.005).  That means _(all things being equal)_ optimistically there would be ≈ 3.5K in the population that "might have memories" of that period.  Even at age 6, memory perception is somewhat dubious.  Someone that is 80 years old trying to recall events at the early ages of 3 to 6 yo would have some difficulty distinguishing facts from the storytelling.
> 
> It is not reasonable to assume that anyone in their right mind is going to base any credibility on pre-school memories that are over three-quarters of a century old.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not the memory of a person. It is the memory of a people. It is history.
Click to expand...


There weren’t any “palestinian people“ 2,000 years ago when Jews rebelled against Roman occupation of Judea (“land of the Jews”) as this BBC documentary examines


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore

Children have the right to grow up without fear of being abused and imprisoned by the Israeli military. Support HR 2407 – stop US funding of this barbaric practice. Help us spread the word!


----------



## P F Tinmore

UN RESOLUTION 194 III, Article 11 resolves that refugees wishing to return to their homes and live in peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of damages to property which, under principles of international law of equity, should be made good by the Government or authorities responsible.

Artwork: 'The Keys to Peace' by
Rajie cook with keys here symbolizing Palestinian right of return


----------



## P F Tinmore

Last night, two Palestinian warriors - Noura Erakat and Rep. Rashida Tlaib - were honored at a gala. In tribute, JVP designed this poster to show our appreciation for their powerful leadership. Thank you! We can't do this without you!


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


>



The name Gaza is Hebrew in origin, not Arabic, reflecting Jews’ ancient presence there.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


>



Arabs themselves side with Israel, also fed up with “palestinians’” terrorism: “We pray that ‘palestinians’ disappear!”

Abd Al-Bari Atwan: The Arab Leaders Are Praying That Israel Will Get Rid of the Palestinians Once and for All


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

Where is “palestine” located?


----------



## MartyNYC

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The name Gaza is Hebrew in origin, not Arabic, reflecting Jews’ ancient presence there.
Click to expand...


The name Gaza is Hebrew in origin, azzah. It’s not Arabic. Azzah means “fortress” referring to a Philistine kingdom. Philistines were raiders from the Greek world that invaded Israelites’ country.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> Where is “palestine” located?


That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.

IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
Click to expand...


Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Israel annexes 1948 palestine


MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
Click to expand...

Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
Click to expand...





P F Tinmore said:


> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
Click to expand...


Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”

Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah


----------



## MartyNYC

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
Click to expand...


History Lesson: “Palestine” was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland, dating back to the Roman Empire⤵️


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
Click to expand...


During 400 years of the Ottoman Empire, there was no geographic entity named palestine. Were Ottoman Turks Zionists? LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
Click to expand...

More deflection.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
Click to expand...


Anyone see “palestine” in this 1900 map of the Ottoman Empire? Nope, didn’t exist.⤵️


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
Click to expand...


You thought Arabs founded “palestine”? Never happened.


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You thought Arabs founded “palestine”? Never happened.
Click to expand...

Not so. Palestine was created by post WWI treaties.


----------



## Mindful

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You thought Arabs founded “palestine”? Never happened.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Palestine was created by post WWI treaties.
Click to expand...


So you keep on saying.


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> 
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel annexes 1948 palestine
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where is “palestine” located?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's an easy one. Take a map of Israel, erase the fake border armistice lines, (The Armistice lines were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.) and there you will find Palestine.
> 
> IOW, it is right under Israel's fat ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine was a fictional European name for Jews’ homeland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is deflection all you got? Typical Zionist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”
> 
> Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More deflection.
Click to expand...


”Palestine“ was Britain’s fictional name for the British Mandate which led to Israeli statehood. Were the British Arabs?

Earlier, it was a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews, “palaestina.” Were the Romans Arabs?

Roman palaestina referred to Jews ancient Philistine foes who were related to Greeks, known as Sea Peoples. Were Philistines Arabs?


----------



## P F Tinmore

So Dareen Tatour was sentenced by Israeli authorities to five months in prison for her poem. Where's the freedom of speech?!


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> So Dareen Tatour was sentenced by Israeli authorities to five months in prison for her poem. Where's the freedom of speech?!



No freedom in “palestine“

“Dangerous Escalation in Attacks on Freedom of Expression” “Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have tightened the noose on freedom of expression in recent months, launching a repressive clampdown on dissent.”

Palestine: Dangerous escalation in attacks on freedom of expression


----------



## MartyNYC

Arabs in Israel: In Israel we are free. “Peaceful and beautiful.” We do not want to live under “palestinian” rule!


----------



## P F Tinmore

MartyNYC said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Dareen Tatour was sentenced by Israeli authorities to five months in prison for her poem. Where's the freedom of speech?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No freedom in “palestine“
> 
> “Dangerous Escalation in Attacks on Freedom of Expression” “Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have tightened the noose on freedom of expression in recent months, launching a repressive clampdown on dissent.”
> 
> Palestine: Dangerous escalation in attacks on freedom of expression
Click to expand...

Dareen Tatour is a citizen of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore




----------



## MartyNYC

Welcome To “Palestine”! 

“Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza. Beatings & Arrests of Rights Defenders, Journalists, Demonstrators Reflect Systematic Practice.”

Another Brutal Crackdown by Hamas in Gaza


----------



## P F Tinmore

He is the third Palestinian journalist to be shot by Israeli snipers today along with hundreds of civilians during the #GreatReturnMarch.


----------



## MartyNYC

Welcome To “Palestine”! Authorities crush dissent


----------



## P F Tinmore

*Omar Barghouti, founder of the BDS movement, speaks at Kings College University, London. 27.1.20

*


----------



## MartyNYC

P F Tinmore said:


> *Omar Barghouti, founder of the BDS movement, speaks at Kings College University, London. 27.1.20
> 
> *



Omar Barghouti, who “boycotts” Israel, graduated from Tel Aviv University. Can’t actually boycott Israel.


----------



## MartyNYC

Welcome To “Palestine”! 
Arbitrary detentions, torture, barbarism

The case of Suha Jbara exposes the corruption and barbarism of the Palestinian Authority ǀ View


----------



## MartyNYC

Welcome To “Palestine”! The Deadly Toll For Women The Deadly Toll for Palestinian Women


----------



## MartyNYC

Welcome To “Palestine”! 

“Hamas Must End Brutal Crackdown Against Protesters & Rights Defenders”

Hamas must end brutal crackdown against protesters in Gaza


----------



## Coyote

Palestinian Women Entrepreneurs Forging Paths for Women and Men
					

Aya Kishko, who at only 26 years old founded and is running her successful Basata Up business in Gaza. Aya launched an enterprise built on upcycling discarded wooden crates into high value furniture.




					www.worldbank.org
				




The saying “_one person’s trash is another person’s treasure_” could not ring more true in the case of Aya Kishko, who at only 26 years old founded and is running her successful Basata Up business in Gaza. Aya launched an enterprise built on upcycling discarded wooden crates into high value furniture. On any given day, more than 200 trucks, each containing about 24 wooden crates of merchandise, enter Gaza. While the goods are distributed, the crates are usually discarded out onto the streets. Not only are they an eye sore but in the small, densely populated city they are also an environmental hazard. 

Aya, a graduate of architectural engineering, is among a small but growing number of rising female innovators across the Palestinian territories who are breaking new ground in non-traditional and high impact fields. In the recent World Bank report Enhancing Job Opportunities for Skilled Women in the Palestinian Territories, supported by the Norwegian government, a striking feature is the untapped human capital of the Palestinian labor force. This untapped supply of talent and human capital is largely characterized by female and youth.

“_I strive to provide opportunity and hope to Gazan youth, many of whom had been jobless before working at my company,_” says Aya, ”_I would especially like to encourage and inspire more women in the field; one idea is to establish a women’s training center[in my workshop to involve them not only in design and marketing but also in implementation and manufacturing, which tends to be male-dominated._”


----------



## flacaltenn

*This thread was created SOLELY to focus on aspects of daily living in Gaza and West Bank.. It was created to match one that featured daily aspects of Israeli life.. The objective was to show the culture, commerce, arts, science and education, recreation and even maybe some of the CURRENT effects of the occupation on travel and trade... *
*
What was NOT "on topic" was yet another "deep dive" rolling brawl over 4000 years of history.. Was NOT to get too political or include  UN edicts, US Congress bills, past wars and conflicts, propaganda cartoons and videos, ect..  It was to be a thread that shows the vibrance and resiliency of the Palestinians -- A BREAK from "all that other stuff"...  
*
*Thread lost it's way...  Mod staff is discussing how to "reboot it" and KEEP the thread confined to the intended purpose..  Will probably be restarted sometime early next week... Too many "off topic" thread diversions to moderate here -- so this one will be closed.. Contacting the OP for ideas on how to LIMIT the topic..    Coyote WillHaftawaite Meister Kat*


----------

